From cctalk at emailtoilet.com Sat Feb 1 10:23:03 2020 From: cctalk at emailtoilet.com (cctalk at emailtoilet.com) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:23:03 -0800 Subject: Old IBM magnetic media Message-ID: <00ee01d5d91b$e1616ae0$a42440a0$@emailtoilet.com> Just received my latest eBay purchase. 5 3850 MSS cartridges. 3 of them had no tape inside. Just wondering why. Data destruction? Inquisitive previous owner? 1 of them has an opaque yellow shell instead of the smoked clear plastic. Possible CE cart? Has magic marker printing on it BAD MSS TAG I thought it took 2 of these carts to restore a 3330 disk. One of these carts has a label on it with 'Data Management Conference October 19-21, 1982 San Jose, California. Me thinks the cart was given out as a souvenir. I was also wondering what old mainframe magnetic media cost back in the day. 2311, 2314, 3330 packs. 2314 Data Cell and a 3850 MSS cartridge. And a 7340 tape cassette. I was on a business call to Yellow Cab in Chicago in the early 70's. We entered through the garage and there was a pile of 2311 packs there. They had just installed a 2314 system and the 2311 packs were being thrown out. I asked if I could have an old pack. I chose a yellow 3M pack. Still have it. :) From cclist at sydex.com Sat Feb 1 15:32:01 2020 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 13:32:01 -0800 Subject: Old IBM magnetic media In-Reply-To: <00ee01d5d91b$e1616ae0$a42440a0$@emailtoilet.com> References: <00ee01d5d91b$e1616ae0$a42440a0$@emailtoilet.com> Message-ID: <589d97e9-3129-3fe0-ff0b-74d238bd9bad@sydex.com> On 2/1/20 8:23 AM, Donald via cctalk wrote: > I was also wondering what old mainframe magnetic media cost back in the day. > 2311, 2314, 3330 packs. 2314 Data Cell and a 3850 MSS cartridge. And a 7340 > tape cassette. Half-inch tape (7 or 9 track) was the lingua franca medium used most widely. It was comparatively cheap, purchased by the truck- or pallet-load, depending on the size of the operation. The pre-1980s floppy disk equivalent. I've often wondered what the total consumption of 1/2 inch tape by the US Internal Revenue Service was during the time that it was used. I suspect that it runs well into 8 figures. Bear in mind that corporate tax returns were also submitted on the medium. --Chuck From j_hoppe at t-online.de Sat Feb 1 12:02:50 2020 From: j_hoppe at t-online.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_Hoppe?=) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 19:02:50 +0100 Subject: UniBone (Linux-to-UNIBUS bridge) available Message-ID: <464049d0-078e-e3e4-8ee5-b5d4c297c1a8@t-online.de> Hi, After half a year I can dump out UniBones again. Seems I lost contact to several interested guys, hope this broadcast helps. Info: http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/unibone Conditions: http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/unibone/283-unibone-getting-one best regards, Joerg From tdk.knight at gmail.com Sat Feb 8 18:50:25 2020 From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 18:50:25 -0600 Subject: looking for: fairchild model 8200 manual Message-ID: trying to find a manual for a fairchild universal counter timer model 8200 circa 1968? got one i found like to see if i can get it working for the rack. can only find this sales catilog from 68 https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2FTNM_Instruments_catalog_multimeters_and_various_o_20171025_0048%2Fpage%2Fn11%2Fmode%2F2up%2Fsearch%2Ffairchild%2Bmodel%2B8200%3Fq%3Dfairchild%2520model%25208200&h=AT2SbCVHC4Bf1LBj-UBDAeFgyB_79Ov-tSEHfbJYlfJ3BBA0SrVHyqlY85S9NLZq2AzAf9K0D9OweDdNRockMT0TxmKJYL5HHV8odxS6lp9Tek0jo0PhWZA7Lb6i9Oaf4-0 https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1IZDamqqNJP8a8ilZWALSNg_na2hZqKr3%26fbclid%3DIwAR3LJf3o-4y_xSALVXNzHBaFeBRBP_oDjr_CviGm0TZxUTR14aKtXwPH1y8&h=AT2SbCVHC4Bf1LBj-UBDAeFgyB_79Ov-tSEHfbJYlfJ3BBA0SrVHyqlY85S9NLZq2AzAf9K0D9OweDdNRockMT0TxmKJYL5HHV8odxS6lp9Tek0jo0PhWZA7Lb6i9Oaf4-0 https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1aAnHIUHDdc_YjqkWy5z8rc_WsUQ0p0KN%26fbclid%3DIwAR2XLjHzEujXBgJS0-iAt2yJXBbDhCv9LjVPsyJpk423nsDjLxIQL4g-Kz8&h=AT2SbCVHC4Bf1LBj-UBDAeFgyB_79Ov-tSEHfbJYlfJ3BBA0SrVHyqlY85S9NLZq2AzAf9K0D9OweDdNRockMT0TxmKJYL5HHV8odxS6lp9Tek0jo0PhWZA7Lb6i9Oaf4-0 hasnt been powered up since prolly 1986 has a tag on it about channel B not working. was found in a rack sitting out in 40below temps prolly been sitting there for 20-30yrs in a storage shed the guts are realy clean on it so proly has potential to get working again. From ce.murillosanchez at gmail.com Thu Feb 6 23:22:28 2020 From: ce.murillosanchez at gmail.com (Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 00:22:28 -0500 Subject: RD53 failure modes Message-ID: Hello folks; I've recently had some free time and decided to look at some hardware failures in my small collection.? I fixed a couple of analog boards in the compact Mac department, and a failed scsi disk in one of them prompted me to test the small stash of such drives that I have.? Turns out, about half of those marked as "working" in 2015 have failed now in many different ways.? Oh well... sucks, but it was to be expected... I decided to image some of the still working ones, both in the stash and in working machines.?? The one in the vaxstation 2000 (a 1GB scsi with 5.5-2) turned out to have file system corruption (probably from? AC power failures), which has taken a while to fix.? And then, I remembered that said system originally came with an RD53 that has sat elsewhere for 25 years.? It passed a read test in 2005.? So I tried to see if I could read it and maybe image it now, but no go. The disk spins up, initiates a seek (the arm is not stuck in a gooey stop pad; I've read that this is a common failure mechanism for Micropolis 1325's; I opened it and saw the arm move) but then the arm returns violently (clacking) to the rest position; it does this a number of times (two to four, usually) and then it spins down. Applied voltages and currents remain ok as this happens. I've seen plenty of internet content about solving the stuck arm problem, but not this. Advice, please? Carlos. From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Feb 7 19:27:56 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 20:27:56 -0500 Subject: PC3XC manual? Message-ID: My Pro has a PC3XC 4-line serial interface, and I know I once had a manual for it because the driver code I wrote mentions it. But I can't find it -- it may have been lost or it may have been a DEC document I did not take with me. Is there a PC3XC-BA programming manual anywhere? paul From cctalk at emailtoilet.com Sun Feb 9 22:02:02 2020 From: cctalk at emailtoilet.com (cctalk at emailtoilet.com) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 20:02:02 -0800 Subject: Old IBM magnetic media Message-ID: <01cc01d5dfc6$d97d8be0$8c78a3a0$@emailtoilet.com> I had an old IRA 7340 Hypertape cartridge. It is at the Computer Museum of America. I still have a cartridge but don't know from where. I just got some replacement strips for a 2321 Data Cell. From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Fri Feb 7 13:12:05 2020 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 14:12:05 -0500 Subject: Looking for info - Computer Extension systems WE-VM8E8 board Message-ID: I have 3 of these omnibus boards, all fully populated with 8K 12 bit words of 2102 static ram. What I don't have is the documentation that describes the way the jumpers need to be set up for each 8K field. The set up seems to involves what looks like a 3 parallel 8 pin sockets that look like one and a half 16 pin DIP socket. Any hints or pointers toward docs would be greatly appreciated THanks bob From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 9 09:44:33 2020 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (jwest at classiccmp.org) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 09:44:33 -0600 Subject: another test Message-ID: <001b01d5df5f$d367f3b0$7a37db10$@classiccmp.org> From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 10 12:21:53 2020 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (jwest at classiccmp.org) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 12:21:53 -0600 Subject: test Message-ID: <000401d5e03e$f86aca40$e9405ec0$@classiccmp.org> test From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 10 17:16:45 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 15:16:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: RD53 failure modes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk wrote: > system originally came with an RD53 that has sat elsewhere for 25 years.? It > passed a read test in 2005.? So I tried to see if I could read it and maybe > image it now, but no go. The disk spins up, initiates a seek (the arm is not > stuck in a gooey stop pad; I've read that this is a common failure mechanism > for Micropolis 1325's; I opened it and saw the arm move) but then the arm > returns violently (clacking) to the rest position; it does this a number of > times (two to four, usually) and then it spins down. Applied voltages and > currents remain ok as this happens. If nobody speaks up who actually know anything about them, . . . Q: Is the return to the reset position more violent than the usual return? If it is not different, then consider the possibility of something not related to positioner, such as: seek to track, try to READ, FAIL, reset, REPEAT. In which case, it could be anything that caused the read to fail, such as head problems, failing to find the servo data, . . . From alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com Mon Feb 10 17:29:50 2020 From: alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com (Alexandre Souza) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 20:29:50 -0300 Subject: test In-Reply-To: <000401d5e03e$f86aca40$e9405ec0$@classiccmp.org> References: <000401d5e03e$f86aca40$e9405ec0$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Test failed. Please call Jim West on Support Desk ---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- http://www.tabajara-labs.blogspot.com http://www.tabalabs.com.br ---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- Em seg., 10 de fev. de 2020 ?s 20:08, jwest--- via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> escreveu: > test > > From derschjo at gmail.com Mon Feb 10 17:34:36 2020 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 15:34:36 -0800 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area Message-ID: (resending as this appears to have gotten eaten last time...) Hi all -- As the subject line says I've got an IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch sitting in my basement, in the Seattle area. It's in well-loved but decent physical condition and appears to be completely original. I have not powered it on (still has the original selenium rectifiers in it, for one thing) but mechanically it seems fine. No rust or obviously damaged parts, but it's clearly gotten a decent amount of use since the 1930s. It's really cool but it's not really something I'm interested in keeping -- if any of you are interested or know someone who is interested, please feel free to make an offer. Due to the size and fragility of the item I don't want to ship this thing. Pictures are available here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMo9BhHMhAok3F4cAInQ?e=EhXDPP Thanks! Josh From wdonzelli at gmail.com Mon Feb 10 17:45:51 2020 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 18:45:51 -0500 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How did you end up with that? Anyway, I forwarded your message to see if the Techworks! Binghamton Bunch wants it. -- Will On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 6:35 PM Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > (resending as this appears to have gotten eaten last time...) > > Hi all -- > > As the subject line says I've got an IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating > Keypunch sitting in my basement, in the Seattle area. > > It's in well-loved but decent physical condition and appears to be > completely original. I have not powered it on (still has the original > selenium rectifiers in it, for one thing) but mechanically it seems fine. > No rust or obviously damaged parts, but it's clearly gotten a decent amount > of use since the 1930s. > > It's really cool but it's not really something I'm interested in keeping -- > if any of you are interested or know someone who is interested, please feel > free to make an offer. Due to the size and fragility of the item I don't > want to ship this thing. > > > Pictures are available here: > https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMo9BhHMhAok3F4cAInQ?e=EhXDPP > > Thanks! > Josh From tony.aiuto at gmail.com Mon Feb 10 19:04:23 2020 From: tony.aiuto at gmail.com (Tony Aiuto) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 20:04:23 -0500 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. That is gorgeous. On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 7:24 PM William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > How did you end up with that? > > Anyway, I forwarded your message to see if the Techworks! Binghamton > Bunch wants it. > > -- > Will > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 6:35 PM Josh Dersch via cctalk > wrote: > > > > (resending as this appears to have gotten eaten last time...) > > > > Hi all -- > > > > As the subject line says I've got an IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating > > Keypunch sitting in my basement, in the Seattle area. > > > > It's in well-loved but decent physical condition and appears to be > > completely original. I have not powered it on (still has the original > > selenium rectifiers in it, for one thing) but mechanically it seems fine. > > No rust or obviously damaged parts, but it's clearly gotten a decent > amount > > of use since the 1930s. > > > > It's really cool but it's not really something I'm interested in keeping > -- > > if any of you are interested or know someone who is interested, please > feel > > free to make an offer. Due to the size and fragility of the item I don't > > want to ship this thing. > > > > > > Pictures are available here: > > https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMo9BhHMhAok3F4cAInQ?e=EhXDPP > > > > Thanks! > > Josh > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Feb 10 19:36:05 2020 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 17:36:05 -0800 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20200210173605.3e62c542@asrock> I forwarded your email to the 1401 Restoration Team at the Computer History Museum... Cheers, Lyle -- On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 15:34:36 -0800 Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > (resending as this appears to have gotten eaten last time...) > > Hi all -- > > As the subject line says I've got an IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating > Keypunch sitting in my basement, in the Seattle area. > > It's in well-loved but decent physical condition and appears to be > completely original. I have not powered it on (still has the original > selenium rectifiers in it, for one thing) but mechanically it seems fine. > No rust or obviously damaged parts, but it's clearly gotten a decent amount > of use since the 1930s. > > It's really cool but it's not really something I'm interested in keeping -- > if any of you are interested or know someone who is interested, please feel > free to make an offer. Due to the size and fragility of the item I don't > want to ship this thing. > > > Pictures are available here: > https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMo9BhHMhAok3F4cAInQ?e=EhXDPP > > Thanks! > Josh -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West Inc. https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From dave at 661.org Tue Feb 11 00:12:47 2020 From: dave at 661.org (David Griffith) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 06:12:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Making use of Panda dist TOPS20 Message-ID: I'm trying to wrap my head around getting Mark Crispin's Panda Distribution of TOPS20 set up such that I can actually make use of a TOPS20 environment. I keep finding lots of manuals through Google searches, but I'm missing a few critical things. Things that are evading me are as follows: 1) How do I get networking set up, preferably such that it'll work on a host that's given a DHCP address that could vary? I'd like to be able to ssh to a specific port and then be connected to a terminal on the emulated machine. 2) How do I set or alter a regular user's disk quota? -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Mon Feb 10 05:17:03 2020 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:17:03 +0000 Subject: Opening a MicroVAX 2000 Message-ID: <7d2cf42b-03c1-b514-d8aa-b85c0af83695@ntlworld.com> I'm trying to non-destructively open up a MicroVAX 2000. I've removed the bottom "dressing" section (which holds some of the I/O connectors)? but the next step isn't obvious. None of the manuals I have cover dismantling and the net doesn't have an IPB or similar available. Other people have managed to get inside (I can see their results) so I must be missing something obvious ... Thanks. Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio at acarlini.com From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Feb 11 00:40:32 2020 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 01:40:32 -0500 Subject: Making use of Panda dist TOPS20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Griffith via cctalk wrote: > I'm trying to wrap my head around getting Mark Crispin's Panda > Distribution of TOPS20 set up such that I can actually make use of a > TOPS20 environment. > > 1) How do I get networking set up, preferably such that it'll work on a > host that's given a DHCP address that could vary? I'd like to be able to > ssh to a specific port and then be connected to a terminal on the emulated > machine. I last did it back in 2003, but I remember having to plug a real DEC terminal into a serial port on my Linux box so I could run emacs so I could edit some local files. Just using the xterm window wasn't VT100/ANSI-compatible enough to run emacs without odd formatting problems. I totally do not remember exactly what I did, but it was the standard recipe for setting up TCP/IP with a static address on TOPS-20, pointing it to the IP address of a physical interface on the box (I might have had multiple interfaces to simplify things). -ethan > 2) How do I set or alter a regular user's disk quota? > > -- > David Griffith > dave at 661.org > > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From derschjo at gmail.com Tue Feb 11 01:13:50 2020 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 23:13:50 -0800 Subject: Opening a MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: <7d2cf42b-03c1-b514-d8aa-b85c0af83695@ntlworld.com> References: <7d2cf42b-03c1-b514-d8aa-b85c0af83695@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:21 PM Antonio Carlini via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I'm trying to non-destructively open up a MicroVAX 2000. > > > I've removed the bottom "dressing" section (which holds some of the I/O > connectors) but the next step isn't obvious. None of the manuals I have > cover dismantling and the net doesn't have an IPB or similar available. > Other people have managed to get inside (I can see their results) so I > must be missing something obvious ... > There are four screws on the bottom, two on each side that hold the top cover on. Once removed the cover should theoretically slide off (looking at the front of the unit, pull it toward you), but is often very tight and will need a bit of coaxing to separate it from the rear panel. - Josh > > > Thanks. > > > Antonio > > > -- > Antonio Carlini > antonio at acarlini.com > > From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Tue Feb 11 08:57:36 2020 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 09:57:36 -0500 Subject: Making use of Panda dist TOPS20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, you don't say which emulator you are using (specifically) for TOPS20 Panda does run very well on the KLH10 from Ken H. The set up for KLH10 emulator has details on how to set up the NI 20 address, mask etc, there is additional info on how to set up tun/tap with the virtual interface. There are a couple of sources and write ups on how to do this. There is data in the INI file, KLT20.ini will look like this: klt20.ini ; Define basic device config - one DTE, one disk, one tape devdef dte0 200 dte master devdef rh0 540 rh20 devdef rh1 544 rh20 devdef dsk0 rh0.0 rp type=rp07 format=dbd9 devdef mta0 rh1.0 tm03 type=tu45 ; Set Ethernet address devdef ni0 564 ni20 ipaddr=10.0.0.53<< this is the out of the box set up. You probably need to set up your address and a virtual gw to connect from external systems into the TOPS host. ; Define the idle device on 700 devdef idler 700 host ; Set switch register set sw=254200,,147 ; Set console lights I/O base register ;Uncomment the following line if you have a Panda display. ;lights 378 ; Load disk bootstrap directly load boot.sav ; Ready to GO --- To access the system using external system, you have to set up and enable Telnet on your linux host,. I hope this helps. bob On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 1:40 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Griffith via cctalk > wrote: > > I'm trying to wrap my head around getting Mark Crispin's Panda > > Distribution of TOPS20 set up such that I can actually make use of a > > TOPS20 environment. > > > > 1) How do I get networking set up, preferably such that it'll work on a > > host that's given a DHCP address that could vary? I'd like to be able to > > ssh to a specific port and then be connected to a terminal on the emulated > > machine. > > I last did it back in 2003, but I remember having to plug a real DEC > terminal into a serial port on my Linux box so I could run emacs so I > could edit some local files. Just using the xterm window wasn't > VT100/ANSI-compatible enough to run emacs without odd formatting > problems. > > I totally do not remember exactly what I did, but it was the standard > recipe for setting up TCP/IP with a static address on TOPS-20, > pointing it to the IP address of a physical interface on the box (I > might have had multiple interfaces to simplify things). > > -ethan > > > 2) How do I set or alter a regular user's disk quota? > > > > -- > > David Griffith > > dave at 661.org > > > > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. > > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > > A: Top-posting. > > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From rickb at bensene.com Tue Feb 11 10:26:13 2020 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 08:26:13 -0800 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8A@mail.bensene.com> Hi, Josh, I can't possibly think about getting this wonderful old beast from you, but something about the photos captured my curiosity. In the background of one of the photos (#1, IIRC) is the front panel of what appears to be a 12-bit computer (ala PDP 8), but the panel is most decidedly not DEC. It has a label on it that says "BR 2412". It appears that there is a second one of these located directly below this panel. These are in a rack that appears to have a PDP 8/e mounted above them. The question is...what is this "BR 2412" machine? I have managed to get TSS-8 running on two terminals on my 8/e. I configured a third serial card for current loop and 110 baud to try to get my Teletype running on it as a third terminal, but I can't get any response out of it. I did reconfigure TSS-8 for the third terminal. I think that the problem might be the serial board not generating interrupts, and I was just getting going on troubleshooting using my trusty Tektronix 2465 scope, when the scope died. Something went amiss in the horizontal deflection such that the trace is pushed off the left-hand side of the tube. Beam Finder does put the trace in the center of the screen, albeit all squished. I opened the scope up and checked all the connectors and switches, and all else I could think of, but nothing made any difference. Arrggh. So, then I went to get my old backup, a 465, which last I used, worked. But, something is not right with its high voltage supply...the trace slowly fades away over the course of about 5 minutes. Turn it off and let it cool down, and the trace comes back, for a couple of minutes. So, I have no oscilloscope. I lost interest at that point, but figure I can use the logic analyzer to figure out if the interrupt is being generated without too much trouble...just need to get the motivation to fiddle with it. Complicating things is that about three weeks ago, I woke up in the morning, and as I went to get out of bed, I felt something in my lower back twinge, but didn't really pay attention to it. As I went to put my weight on my feet, my left leg collapsed, and there was a sharp pain in my lower left back. From that moment on, I've been in extreme pain in my lower back, extending to my groin, then down the front side of my left let to the knee. I called my doctor, and went in. He took XRays and the diagnosis was spinal stenosis (narrowing of the spinal cord canal) due to arthritis, as well as a bulging disc in the lumbar vertebrae. All of this is causing a bundle of nerves that serve the upper left leg to be pinched, and thus...the pain. My doctor said that in order to figure out treatment, an MRI would be needed. The insurance company denied two requests he made to get the MRI. I ended up calling the insurance company and letting them know that I was both in incredible pain, as well as pretty much made immobile by this, and without the MRI, I would not be able to be treated, which was unacceptable. The finally relented, and allowed the MRI, but this whole escapade took about a week. Then, getting scheduled for the MRI took another five days, and another three days to get the MRI reviewed by a spinal specialist. I was then referred to the spinal specialist, and it took four days to get that on the schedule. I went to that appointment, and he said that there were two options, surgery or a combination of cortisone and platelet-rich plasma by injection into the affected area. I opted for the injection, as the specialist said in cases like mine that the success rate (e.g., relief of the pain) was better than 85%. Surgery will also fix it, but the recovery time is longer, and there are far more chances for complications. I go in tomorrow for the CT-guided injections. I should get relief within 3 to 7 days. Fingers are crossed it works, and there are no complications. I am still looking for a job. I had a good prospect week before last, did well in a phone screening, and asked to come in for an in-person interview. However, I was terribly sleep-deprived, as well as in terrible pain from my spine issue when I went in for the in-person interview, and though I had thought I did OK (I made no mention of my back issue/pain), apparently it wasn't good enough, even though I had tons of experience in the areas they were looking for and could prove it, they wrote me on Friday (the interview was last Thursday) saying they had picked someone else. Nothing else on the horizon, and finances are not good. I keep applying for jobs, but either get no response at all, or get messages saying "thanks, we'll keep your information on file...". It's frustrating. Anyway, I my curiosity got the best of me when I saw that odd front panel in the background and figured I'd drop a quick line your way. Hope things are going well for you. -Rick -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Josh Dersch via cctalk Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:35 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area (resending as this appears to have gotten eaten last time...) Hi all -- As the subject line says I've got an IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch sitting in my basement, in the Seattle area. It's in well-loved but decent physical condition and appears to be completely original. I have not powered it on (still has the original selenium rectifiers in it, for one thing) but mechanically it seems fine. No rust or obviously damaged parts, but it's clearly gotten a decent amount of use since the 1930s. It's really cool but it's not really something I'm interested in keeping -- if any of you are interested or know someone who is interested, please feel free to make an offer. Due to the size and fragility of the item I don't want to ship this thing. Pictures are available here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMo9BhHMhAok3F4cAInQ?e=EhXDPP From rickb at bensene.com Tue Feb 11 10:28:20 2020 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 08:28:20 -0800 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8A@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8A@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8B@mail.bensene.com> Sorry....this was meant to go to just Josh, but accidentally copied to the list. My apologies. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rick Bensene via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 8:26 AM To: Josh Dersch; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area Hi, Josh, I can't possibly think about getting this wonderful old beast from you, but something about the photos captured my curiosity. In the background of one of the photos (#1, IIRC) is the front panel of what appears to be a 12-bit computer (ala PDP 8), but the panel is most decidedly not DEC. It has a label on it that says "BR 2412". It appears that there is a second one of these located directly below this panel. These are in a rack that appears to have a PDP 8/e mounted above them. The question is...what is this "BR 2412" machine? I have managed to get TSS-8 running on two terminals on my 8/e. I configured a third serial card for current loop and 110 baud to try to get my Teletype running on it as a third terminal, but I can't get any response out of it. I did reconfigure TSS-8 for the third terminal. I think that the problem might be the serial board not generating interrupts, and I was just getting going on troubleshooting using my trusty Tektronix 2465 scope, when the scope died. Something went amiss in the horizontal deflection such that the trace is pushed off the left-hand side of the tube. Beam Finder does put the trace in the center of the screen, albeit all squished. I opened the scope up and checked all the connectors and switches, and all else I could think of, but nothing made any difference. Arrggh. So, then I went to get my old backup, a 465, which last I used, worked. But, something is not right with its high voltage supply...the trace slowly fades away over the course of about 5 minutes. Turn it off and let it cool down, and the trace comes back, for a couple of minutes. So, I have no oscilloscope. I lost interest at that point, but figure I can use the logic analyzer to figure out if the interrupt is being generated without too much trouble...just need to get the motivation to fiddle with it. Complicating things is that about three weeks ago, I woke up in the morning, and as I went to get out of bed, I felt something in my lower back twinge, but didn't really pay attention to it. As I went to put my weight on my feet, my left leg collapsed, and there was a sharp pain in my lower left back. From that moment on, I've been in extreme pain in my lower back, extending to my groin, then down the front side of my left let to the knee. I called my doctor, and went in. He took XRays and the diagnosis was spinal stenosis (narrowing of the spinal cord canal) due to arthritis, as well as a bulging disc in the lumbar vertebrae. All of this is causing a bundle of nerves that serve the upper left leg to be pinched, and thus...the pain. My doctor said that in order to figure out treatment, an MRI would be needed. The insurance company denied two requests he made to get the MRI. I ended up calling the insurance company and letting them know that I was both in incredible pain, as well as pretty much made immobile by this, and without the MRI, I would not be able to be treated, which was unacceptable. The finally relented, and allowed the MRI, but this whole escapade took about a week. Then, getting scheduled for the MRI took another five days, and another three days to get the MRI reviewed by a spinal specialist. I was then referred to the spinal specialist, and it took four days to get that on the schedule. I went to that appointment, and he said that there were two options, surgery or a combination of cortisone and platelet-rich plasma by injection into the affected area. I opted for the injection, as the specialist said in cases like mine that the success rate (e.g., relief of the pain) was better than 85%. Surgery will also fix it, but the recovery time is longer, and there are far more chances for complications. I go in tomorrow for the CT-guided injections. I should get relief within 3 to 7 days. Fingers are crossed it works, and there are no complications. I am still looking for a job. I had a good prospect week before last, did well in a phone screening, and asked to come in for an in-person interview. However, I was terribly sleep-deprived, as well as in terrible pain from my spine issue when I went in for the in-person interview, and though I had thought I did OK (I made no mention of my back issue/pain), apparently it wasn't good enough, even though I had tons of experience in the areas they were looking for and could prove it, they wrote me on Friday (the interview was last Thursday) saying they had picked someone else. Nothing else on the horizon, and finances are not good. I keep applying for jobs, but either get no response at all, or get messages saying "thanks, we'll keep your information on file...". It's frustrating. Anyway, I my curiosity got the best of me when I saw that odd front panel in the background and figured I'd drop a quick line your way. Hope things are going well for you. -Rick -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Josh Dersch via cctalk Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:35 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area (resending as this appears to have gotten eaten last time...) Hi all -- As the subject line says I've got an IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch sitting in my basement, in the Seattle area. It's in well-loved but decent physical condition and appears to be completely original. I have not powered it on (still has the original selenium rectifiers in it, for one thing) but mechanically it seems fine. No rust or obviously damaged parts, but it's clearly gotten a decent amount of use since the 1930s. It's really cool but it's not really something I'm interested in keeping -- if any of you are interested or know someone who is interested, please feel free to make an offer. Due to the size and fragility of the item I don't want to ship this thing. Pictures are available here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMo9BhHMhAok3F4cAInQ?e=EhXDPP From aek at bitsavers.org Tue Feb 11 11:36:36 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 09:36:36 -0800 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8B@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8A@mail.bensene.com> <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8B@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: <214de04b-8428-aaf9-2b70-1fde9cb6653c@bitsavers.org> On 2/11/20 8:28 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > It has a label on it that says "BR 2412". Bunker-Ramo, originally Nuclear Data NDP-812 Hang in there, man. From cclist at sydex.com Tue Feb 11 11:44:16 2020 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 09:44:16 -0800 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8A@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8A@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: On 2/11/20 8:26 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > In the background of one of the photos (#1, IIRC) is the front panel > of what appears to be a 12-bit computer (ala PDP 8), but the panel is > most decidedly not DEC. It has a label on it that says "BR 2412". > It appears that there is a second one of these located directly below > this panel. These are in a rack that appears to have a PDP 8/e > mounted above them. The question is...what is this "BR 2412" > machine? I'll take the liberty of answering the question being asked. Please forgive the intrusion. BR 2412 = Bunker-Ramo 2412. --Chuck From shadoooo at gmail.com Tue Feb 11 12:49:48 2020 From: shadoooo at gmail.com (shadoooo) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 19:49:48 +0100 Subject: RD53 failure modes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, definitely you should be able to fix it. This kind of problem is caused by the missing thickness of the rubber stoppers of the positioner, which became goo in the years. You have two ways to solve this problem. First of all, remove the disk top cover plate in clean room, locate the positioner and note that is full of black goo. Remove it at best with isopropyl alcohol, sticks, paper, whatever, but be SURE not to spurt / touch on the disk surface. After this: - method 1, easier: locate two screws at the sides of the positioner coil which hold on position left and right stoppers. You should loosen the left one (head on the center of the disk) and move just slightly to the right, then tight the screw again. As you must repeat some times to find the right position, my advice is to have a PSU connected to the disk, and try before really tightening the screw if it is enough / too much / good. In this way you compensate for the thickness of the missing rubber stopper, but the head will receive some more shocks at start and during operations. -method 2: you will replace the missing rubber with a new one. You should find a piece of rubber sheet, thickness around 1mm. You cut a small chunk and somehow glue it to the stoppers again. Of course you need to clean it very well before, otherwise glue will not adhere. Let me know if you manage to fix it. Andrea From peter at vanpeborgh.eu Tue Feb 11 13:02:27 2020 From: peter at vanpeborgh.eu (Peter Van Peborgh) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 19:02:27 -0000 Subject: Re message 5 on Tuesday the 12th of February "Old IBM magnetic media" - 2321 etc... Message-ID: <000401d5e10d$ce0c1360$6a243a20$@vanpeborgh.eu> Sir, I have a great interest in collecting vintage media. I am also desperate to get hold of 2321 artifacts. Please talk to me as soon as you can. Many thanks, Peter VP From syseng at gfsys.co.uk Tue Feb 11 13:20:26 2020 From: syseng at gfsys.co.uk (Chris Quayle) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 19:20:26 +0000 Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 65, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E42FE7A.7010207@gfsys.co.uk> On 02/11/20 18:00, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech at classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request at classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-owner at classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. looking for: fairchild model 8200 manual (Adrian Stoness) > 2. Opening a MicroVAX 2000 (Antonio Carlini) > 3. RD53 failure modes (Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez) > 4. PC3XC manual? (Paul Koning) > 5. Re: Old IBM magnetic media (cctalk at emailtoilet.com) > 6. Looking for info - Computer Extension systems WE-VM8E8 board > (Bob Smith) > 7. Re: RD53 failure modes (Fred Cisin) > 8. IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, > Seattle area (Josh Dersch) > 9. Re: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, > Seattle area (William Donzelli) > 10. Re: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, > Seattle area (Tony Aiuto) > 11. Re: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, > Seattle area (Lyle Bickley) > 12. Making use of Panda dist TOPS20 (David Griffith) > 13. Re: Making use of Panda dist TOPS20 (Ethan Dicks) > 14. Re: Opening a MicroVAX 2000 (Josh Dersch) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 18:50:25 -0600 > From: Adrian Stoness > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: looking for: fairchild model 8200 manual > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > trying to find a manual for a fairchild universal counter timer model 8200 > circa 1968? > > got one i found like to see if i can get it working for the rack. > > can only find this sales catilog from 68 > https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2FTNM_Instruments_catalog_multimeters_and_various_o_20171025_0048%2Fpage%2Fn11%2Fmode%2F2up%2Fsearch%2Ffairchild%2Bmodel%2B8200%3Fq%3Dfairchild%2520model%25208200&h=AT2SbCVHC4Bf1LBj-UBDAeFgyB_79Ov-tSEHfbJYlfJ3BBA0SrVHyqlY85S9NLZq2AzAf9K0D9OweDdNRockMT0TxmKJYL5HHV8odxS6lp9Tek0jo0PhWZA7Lb6i9Oaf4-0 > > https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1IZDamqqNJP8a8ilZWALSNg_na2hZqKr3%26fbclid%3DIwAR3LJf3o-4y_xSALVXNzHBaFeBRBP_oDjr_CviGm0TZxUTR14aKtXwPH1y8&h=AT2SbCVHC4Bf1LBj-UBDAeFgyB_79Ov-tSEHfbJYlfJ3BBA0SrVHyqlY85S9NLZq2AzAf9K0D9OweDdNRockMT0TxmKJYL5HHV8odxS6lp9Tek0jo0PhWZA7Lb6i9Oaf4-0 > > https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1aAnHIUHDdc_YjqkWy5z8rc_WsUQ0p0KN%26fbclid%3DIwAR2XLjHzEujXBgJS0-iAt2yJXBbDhCv9LjVPsyJpk423nsDjLxIQL4g-Kz8&h=AT2SbCVHC4Bf1LBj-UBDAeFgyB_79Ov-tSEHfbJYlfJ3BBA0SrVHyqlY85S9NLZq2AzAf9K0D9OweDdNRockMT0TxmKJYL5HHV8odxS6lp9Tek0jo0PhWZA7Lb6i9Oaf4-0 > > hasnt been powered up since prolly 1986 has a tag on it about channel B not > working. > was found in a rack sitting out in 40below temps prolly been sitting there > for 20-30yrs in a storage shed the guts are realy clean on it so proly has > potential to get working again. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:17:03 +0000 > From: Antonio Carlini > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" > Subject: Opening a MicroVAX 2000 > Message-ID:<7d2cf42b-03c1-b514-d8aa-b85c0af83695 at ntlworld.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I'm trying to non-destructively open up a MicroVAX 2000. > > > I've removed the bottom "dressing" section (which holds some of the I/O > connectors)? but the next step isn't obvious. None of the manuals I have > cover dismantling and the net doesn't have an IPB or similar available. > Other people have managed to get inside (I can see their results) so I > must be missing something obvious ... > > > Thanks. > > > Antonio > > Antonio, From memory, the 2000 case covers are really tight and may need a bit of leverage to remove, assuming all the screws have been removed. Very close fitting rfi shields + several years of light corrosion etc... Regards, Chris From derschjo at gmail.com Tue Feb 11 18:14:47 2020 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 16:14:47 -0800 Subject: IBM Type 31 Alphabetical Duplicating Keypunch available, Seattle area In-Reply-To: <214de04b-8428-aaf9-2b70-1fde9cb6653c@bitsavers.org> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8A@mail.bensene.com> <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C17012D3F8B@mail.bensene.com> <214de04b-8428-aaf9-2b70-1fde9cb6653c@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 9:44 AM Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 2/11/20 8:28 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > > It has a label on it that says "BR 2412". > > Bunker-Ramo, originally Nuclear Data NDP-812 > Yep. 12-bit machine, four accumulators, multiply/divide logic standard. All built on a single large, wire-wrapped board stuffed with 9000-series logic, using extremely poor quality wire-wrapped sockets. The one in that picture almost works properly after a week or three of cleaning and debugging (the mul/div hardware screws up somewhere and I never tracked it down). Bigger issue is that my unit doesn't have any I/O devices at all, so I'll have to build one. The BR 2412 is basically identical to the ND-812, except the latter used core memory and the former uses battery-backed SRAM. (Big lead-acid battery in there.) > > Hang in there, man. > > Seconded. - Josh From steven at malikoff.com Wed Feb 12 04:33:52 2020 From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 20:33:52 +1000 Subject: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? Message-ID: <2f187342f6ed44b2e4e6de4deda6e6fd.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> Would anyone know whether there is a backplane wire list diagram anywhere for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller like the one on eBay a few days ago? I didn't get that one but I have a pair of NOS H803 4x dual-height socket blocks kicking around that I guess could be wire wrapped into a replica RKV11 backplane as a rainy day project, not that I have the special module that replaced one of the Unibus boards but I'll keep looking. Info on this controller seems pretty scarce apart from the description in one of the handbooks. Thanks for any help, Steve. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 12 04:42:44 2020 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 10:42:44 +0000 Subject: Opening a MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: References: <7d2cf42b-03c1-b514-d8aa-b85c0af83695@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On 11/02/2020 07:13, Josh Dersch wrote: > > > > There are four screws on the bottom, two on each side that hold the > top cover on.? Once removed the cover should theoretically slide off > (looking at the front of the unit, pull it toward you), but is often > very tight and will need a bit of coaxing to separate it from the rear > panel. > > - Josh > Thanks. Actually while waiting for this post to appear, I found some "after" pictures on the web which made it clear which direction things had to go, so the cover is off. I've now undone three more screws and disconnected enough that the "top" section is now completely free. So the bottom now contains the PSU, the RD54 and the back panel. One more screw and a few further connectors later and I can slide the memory board (?) sideways enough to unclip the battery. It has started to leak but it seems to only have affected the nearby metalwork: a bit of cleaning with vinegar should clear that up. I have to check more carefully, but so far it looks like I've been quite lucky. So, once I've cleaned it up, I need to test it the PSU before I hook it up to the rest of the system. Any ideas on that front? Thanks again, Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio at acarlini.com From cctalk at beyondthepale.ie Wed Feb 12 06:44:42 2020 From: cctalk at beyondthepale.ie (Peter Coghlan) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 12:44:42 +0000 (WET) Subject: Opening a MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: References: <7d2cf42b-03c1-b514-d8aa-b85c0af83695@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <01RHAJ1677JA8X7DE0@beyondthepale.ie> Antonio Carlini wrote: > [snip] > > One more screw and a few further connectors later and I can slide the > memory board (?) sideways enough to unclip the battery. > > > It has started to leak but it seems to only have affected the nearby > metalwork: a bit of cleaning with vinegar should clear that up. I have > to check more carefully, but so far it looks like I've been quite lucky. > Beware electrolyte wicking along the battery leads and reaching the board that way. I have had damage done to some of the tiny tracks in the area of the serial ports which may have been caused by this. Check carefully around the area where the battery connector plugs into the board. > > So, once I've cleaned it up, I need to test it the PSU before I hook it > up to the rest of the system. Any ideas on that front? > VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 machines which do not have a disk have instead a little load board with several resistors mounted on it which the power connector for the disk is plugged into. I think I came across a similar load board in a TK50 drive or something like that. If you can find one of these boards, it makes a great dummy load for testing the PSU. If not, how about a 6V and a 12V headlight bulb? Regards, Peter Coghlan. > > Thanks again, > > > Antonio > > > -- > Antonio Carlini > antonio at acarlini.com > From vax at purdue.edu Wed Feb 12 06:49:17 2020 From: vax at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 07:49:17 -0500 Subject: Teac FD-54 Message-ID: I've got a couple of Teac FD-54B's that appear to have problems with their index sensors. Does anyone have any docs for these? The internet seems to barely know they exist vs the FD-55, which has info everywhere. I'm thrown off a bit by the 3 wire phototransistor (vs the common 2 wire ones) they they use, and I haven't quite disassembled it enough to figure out a part # for that. Also, if anyone has a pair of spare black FD-55B, that'd be useful too. Patrick Finnegan From cube1 at charter.net Wed Feb 12 09:14:48 2020 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 09:14:48 -0600 Subject: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: <2f187342f6ed44b2e4e6de4deda6e6fd.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> References: <2f187342f6ed44b2e4e6de4deda6e6fd.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> Message-ID: Yeah, info does seem to be scarce. Not even in my LEVAX fiche set. But maybe decipherable? Since three of cards are the same (per the Wiki), those interconnections would presumably be the same as the RK11-D. That fourth card (M7268) is apparently a connector card for the Q-Bus and drive bus. No idea if it has additional logic on it or not. An easier route might be to throw an FPGA on a dual height Q-Bus card and reproduce the thing. JRJ On 2/12/2020 4:33 AM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote: > Would anyone know whether there is a backplane wire list diagram anywhere for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller > like the one on eBay a few days ago? > > I didn't get that one but I have a pair of NOS H803 4x dual-height socket blocks kicking around that I guess > could be wire wrapped into a replica RKV11 backplane as a rainy day project, not that I have the special > module that replaced one of the Unibus boards but I'll keep looking. Info on this controller seems pretty > scarce apart from the description in one of the handbooks. > > Thanks for any help, > > Steve. > From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Feb 12 09:17:16 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 07:17:16 -0800 Subject: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: References: <2f187342f6ed44b2e4e6de4deda6e6fd.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> Message-ID: <0ec8da33-161b-043f-fdea-7cd6f833924b@bitsavers.org> On 2/12/20 7:14 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: > No idea if it has additional logic on it or not. It is a Qbus to Unibus converter. Also, it is only 18 bits. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 12 10:02:29 2020 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 16:02:29 +0000 Subject: Opening a MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: <01RHAJ1677JA8X7DE0@beyondthepale.ie> References: <7d2cf42b-03c1-b514-d8aa-b85c0af83695@ntlworld.com> <01RHAJ1677JA8X7DE0@beyondthepale.ie> Message-ID: <7c3ca43a-9bc9-937c-c664-94cca0ab79ce@ntlworld.com> On 12/02/2020 12:44, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: > Beware electrolyte wicking along the battery leads and reaching the board > that way. I have had damage done to some of the tiny tracks in the area of > the serial ports which may have been caused by this. Check carefully around > the area where the battery connector plugs into the board. The resistor leads in that area do show some slight deposits, as does the pad by the ThinWire connector right at the edge of the board. Other than that all I can see is a slight amount of deposit on three of the pins of the tall memory connector (interestingly, only furthest from the battery lead) and also the MicroVAX/VAXstation jumper and pins. Some of the solder mask in that area looks like it will lift off, but the track underneath seems OK. There's also a little bit on the 12MB expansion board, but hopefully that will just wash off. I guess I won't know for sure until I try powering up. > VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 machines which do not have a disk have instead > a little load board with several resistors mounted on it which the power > connector for the disk is plugged into. I think I came across a similar > load board in a TK50 drive or something like that. If you can find one > of these boards, it makes a great dummy load for testing the PSU. If > not, how about a 6V and a 12V headlight bulb? I have enough dead HDDs around that a load isn't the problem. If it's just +5V and +12V that will be easy. If it's more than that then that might be more interesting. Antonio -- Antonio Carlini antonio at acarlini.com From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Wed Feb 12 11:28:28 2020 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 12:28:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Previous message: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? Message-ID: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Jay Jaeger > Yeah, info does seem to be scarce. Not even in my LEVAX fiche set. My fiche set has the Technical Manual, and also (in the wirelist section) the wirelist. Not sure how to get it to you, though. I stuck it in my industrial-grade scanner at its highest resolution; no go. I suppose I could take photos of it displayed on my fiche reader? Or is there some device I can buy which is less than a zillion dollars which can scan fiche? There are a number of things in my set (e.g. the BA11-N Tech Manual) which aren't online, and would be useful to have. > That fourth card (M7268) is apparently a connector card for the Q-Bus > and drive bus. Yes, but actually there are 6 cards: the M7269 is a dual card which goes into the QBUS backplane, and the M993-YA which goes into the first RK05, to convert from the two flat cables which come from the M7268. > From: Al Kossow > Also, it is only 18 bits. Actually, only 16-bit DMA addresses, I'm pretty sure. Noel From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 11:37:02 2020 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 12:37:02 -0500 Subject: Previous message: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 12:28 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > My fiche set has the Technical Manual, and also (in the wirelist > section) the wirelist. > > > That fourth card (M7268) is apparently a connector card for the Q-Bus > > and drive bus. > > Yes, but actually there are 6 cards: the M7269 is a dual card which goes > into the QBUS backplane, and the M993-YA which goes into the first RK05, > to convert from the two flat cables which come from the M7268. Yes. > > From: Al Kossow > > > Also, it is only 18 bits. > > Actually, only 16-bit DMA addresses, I'm pretty sure. It is. -ethan From jsw at ieee.org Wed Feb 12 11:38:05 2020 From: jsw at ieee.org (Jerry Weiss) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 11:38:05 -0600 Subject: Previous message: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On 2/12/20 11:28 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Jay Jaeger > > > Yeah, info does seem to be scarce. Not even in my LEVAX fiche set. > > My fiche set has the Technical Manual, and also (in the wirelist > section) the wirelist. > > Not sure how to get it to you, though. I stuck it in my industrial-grade > scanner at its highest resolution; no go. I suppose I could take photos > of it displayed on my fiche reader? > > Or is there some device I can buy which is less than a zillion dollars which > can scan fiche? There are a number of things in my set (e.g. the BA11-N Tech > Manual) which aren't online, and would be useful to have. > > > That fourth card (M7268) is apparently a connector card for the Q-Bus > > and drive bus. > > Yes, but actually there are 6 cards: the M7269 is a dual card which goes > into the QBUS backplane, and the M993-YA which goes into the first RK05, > to convert from the two flat cables which come from the M7268. > > > From: Al Kossow > > > Also, it is only 18 bits. > > Actually, only 16-bit DMA addresses, I'm pretty sure. > > Noel That's what is documented in Micronote #5. There is a comment in the 15-Dec-1994 DECUServe Journal that says it can be modified for 18 bits from Alan Frisbie. ??????????? Jerry From phil at ultimate.com Wed Feb 12 14:55:48 2020 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 15:55:48 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Book on punched cards Message-ID: <202002122055.01CKtmTC084013@ultimate.com> As seen on PDP-8 Lovers list: > From: "Jones, Douglas W" > To: PDP8-Lovers > Subject: [PDP8-Lovers] Book on punched cards > > A new book has come out that I helped create: > Print Punch > published by CentreCentre, London > 40 pounds sterling for the special edition (print run, 100 books) > 30 pounds sterling for the regular edition (print run, 700 books) > > Here is the publisher's book list: > -- https://centrecentre.co.uk/collections/frontpage > > The book includes 178 images of punched cards from my collection, mostly featuring corporate logos or business forms from around the world. The expensive special edition differs from the regular edition only in: A different color of cover, the addition of a big fat rubber band, and the inclusion of an actual punched card from my stock of spare cards. > > The IBM archives also provided lots of content and there are some essays by others. It's a nice coffee table book, and a good way for me to make the content of my punched card collection more widely available. > > It definitely counts as an art book, not a technical reference, but still, it seems at least tangentially relevant here. > > Doug Jones > jones at cs.uiowa.edu > > PS: They paid me, if you can call it that, with a few copies of the regular edition. I don't expect any royalty checks as a result of the astounding sales bump this e-mail will certainly produce as people rush to buy a useless but pretty book. > > PPS: Yes, if you really want to, you may forward this e-mail anywhere you want. Don't bother asking my permission. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Feb 12 16:21:39 2020 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 17:21:39 -0500 Subject: Croemeco 4FDC daughter board... References: <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$.ref@verizon.net> Message-ID: <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$@verizon.net> Interesting daughter board on the 4FDC in this ebay lot: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lot-of-2-Cromemco-S-100-Boards-Z80-ZPU-CPU- 4FDC-Floppy-Disk-Controller/202903187221?hash=item2f3df8ef15:g:kGQAAOSwhKZeQ z9C (sorry if you have to paste the URL back together) I thought maybe it was the JVB FDCX4 but after looking at some pictures, it clearly is not. Looks like it just adds a data separator to the 1771? Anybody have one of these? Bill S. From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 16:26:16 2020 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 17:26:16 -0500 Subject: Croemeco 4FDC daughter board... In-Reply-To: <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$@verizon.net> References: <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$.ref@verizon.net> <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: That's what I thought, a disk doubler like they used to sell on TRS 80's. b On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 5:21 PM William Sudbrink via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Interesting daughter board on the 4FDC in this ebay lot: > > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lot-of-2-Cromemco-S-100-Boards-Z80-ZPU-CPU- > > 4FDC-Floppy-Disk-Controller/202903187221?hash=item2f3df8ef15:g:kGQAAOSwhKZeQ > z9C > > > > > (sorry if you have to paste the URL back together) > > > > I thought maybe it was the JVB FDCX4 but after looking at some pictures, > > it clearly is not. Looks like it just adds a data separator to the 1771? > Anybody > > have one of these? > > > > Bill S. > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 12 16:57:20 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:57:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Croemeco 4FDC daughter board... In-Reply-To: <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$@verizon.net> References: <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$.ref@verizon.net> <0e6001d5e1f2$cc182f90$64488eb0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2020, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Interesting daughter board on the 4FDC in this ebay lot: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lot-of-2-Cromemco-S-100-Boards-Z80-ZPU-CPU- > 4FDC-Floppy-Disk-Controller/202903187221?hash=item2f3df8ef15:g:kGQAAOSwhKZeQ > z9C > > (sorry if you have to paste the URL back together) For future reference, in ebay listings, after the item number is a question mark and the word "hash". The question mark, and everything that follows it is extraneous (tracking data?) resulting in: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lot-of-2-Cromemco-S-100-Boards-Z80-ZPU-CPU-4FDC-Floppy-Disk-Controller/202903187221 The description, in between "/itm/" and slash item number is optional, (but often useful), resulting in: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/202903187221 Can you tell what the chip number is on the FDC on the daughterboard? I have heard that the 4FDC required data separation circuitry on the DRIVE (Persci?), and that therefore, an unmodified 4FDC could not use other drives. ON TRS80 model 1, and a few other machines, it was found that the stock "built-in" data separator was inadequate, and a daughterboard was used to add better data separation. Percom peddled one. This looks like the Percom Data Separator http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/john-a-s/Tandy/TRS-80%20Model%20I/Expansion%20Interface/EI_bottom.jpg OR If the chip on the board is a 179x or equivalent, then it could be for replacing a "single density" (FM) chip, such as 1771 with a 179x/8876?. I have seen an FDCX4, and it looked different from this one. In the case of the "doubler" boards used on TRS80, there were two sockets, to add the 179x, but also to keep the 1771, since the 179x could not produce some of the address marks that TRS-DOS had been using. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From cz at alembic.crystel.com Wed Feb 12 18:40:45 2020 From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:40:45 -0500 Subject: Previous message: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On a related note, what kind of documentation is out there for the various oddball QBus to Unibus converters? I have at least two of the Plessy models that came from the USPS project in the 80's (they used pdp11/23 cpus in a Q bus backplane next to a Unibus backplane that had all the X.25 comm cards) but I haven't had a need to use them. I think they were at least 18 bit cards. What else was there? On 2/12/2020 12:28 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Jay Jaeger > > > Yeah, info does seem to be scarce. Not even in my LEVAX fiche set. > > My fiche set has the Technical Manual, and also (in the wirelist > section) the wirelist. > > Not sure how to get it to you, though. I stuck it in my industrial-grade > scanner at its highest resolution; no go. I suppose I could take photos > of it displayed on my fiche reader? > > Or is there some device I can buy which is less than a zillion dollars which > can scan fiche? There are a number of things in my set (e.g. the BA11-N Tech > Manual) which aren't online, and would be useful to have. > > > That fourth card (M7268) is apparently a connector card for the Q-Bus > > and drive bus. > > Yes, but actually there are 6 cards: the M7269 is a dual card which goes > into the QBUS backplane, and the M993-YA which goes into the first RK05, > to convert from the two flat cables which come from the M7268. > > > From: Al Kossow > > > Also, it is only 18 bits. > > Actually, only 16-bit DMA addresses, I'm pretty sure. > > Noel > From steven at malikoff.com Wed Feb 12 18:59:46 2020 From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 10:59:46 +1000 Subject: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20200212172828.16DA118C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: Noel said > > From: Jay Jaeger > > Yeah, info does seem to be scarce. Not even in my LEVAX fiche set. > > My fiche set has the Technical Manual, and also (in the wirelist > section) the wirelist. > > Not sure how to get it to you, though. I stuck it in my industrial-grade > scanner at its highest resolution; no go. I suppose I could take photos > of it displayed on my fiche reader? > > Or is there some device I can buy which is less than a zillion dollars which > can scan fiche? There are a number of things in my set (e.g. the BA11-N Tech > Manual) which aren't online, and would be useful to have. > > > That fourth card (M7268) is apparently a connector card for the Q-Bus > > and drive bus. > > Yes, but actually there are 6 cards: the M7269 is a dual card which goes > into the QBUS backplane, and the M993-YA which goes into the first RK05, > to convert from the two flat cables which come from the M7268. > > > From: Al Kossow > > > Also, it is only 18 bits. > > Actually, only 16-bit DMA addresses, I'm pretty sure. > > Noel Wow, that would be great. Would a camera with a Bowden cable trigger set up on a tripod in a darkened room be sufficient for imaging the fiche reader screen? I know it wouldn't be Bitsavers quality but any doc is better than no doc. Also I'm ok with the RKV11 being 16 bit, my Qbus CPUs only extend to an LSI-11/2 and 11/03 board with 4KW anyway. Steve. From stephen.m.pereira.sr at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 16:37:12 2020 From: stephen.m.pereira.sr at gmail.com (Stephen Pereira) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 17:37:12 -0500 Subject: Two Kaypro 2 Computers, Disks, Documents Message-ID: I have two Kaypro 2 computers, some disks and some documents that I?d like to sell. $250 OBO takes the entire lot.. One of the computers worked the last time I set it up and tried it - a few years ago. The other one had some problem with the disk drives and did not boot, IIRC. If anyone is interested, they are available for local pickup or reasonable drive to a meeting point. I?m in Bedford, NH, just west of Manchester, NH. smp - - - Stephen Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE From stephen.m.pereira.sr at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 16:39:46 2020 From: stephen.m.pereira.sr at gmail.com (Stephen Pereira) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 17:39:46 -0500 Subject: Two Kaypro 2 Computers, Disks, Documents Message-ID: I have two Kaypro 2 computers, some disks and some documents that I?d like to sell. $250 OBO takes the entire lot.. One of the computers worked the last time I set it up and tried it - a few years ago. The other one had some problem with the disk drives and did not boot, IIRC. If anyone is interested, they are available for local pickup or reasonable drive to a meeting point. I?m in Bedford, NH, just west of Manchester, NH. smp - - - Stephen Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE From useddec at gmail.com Thu Feb 13 03:13:49 2020 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 03:13:49 -0600 Subject: Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like what the British did and the tunnel under Berlin. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI > > From useddec at gmail.com Thu Feb 13 03:16:32 2020 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 03:16:32 -0600 Subject: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: <2f187342f6ed44b2e4e6de4deda6e6fd.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> References: <2f187342f6ed44b2e4e6de4deda6e6fd.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> Message-ID: Were you looking to buy a RKV11-D? On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 4:34 AM Steve Malikoff via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Would anyone know whether there is a backplane wire list diagram anywhere > for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05 controller > like the one on eBay a few days ago? > > I didn't get that one but I have a pair of NOS H803 4x dual-height socket > blocks kicking around that I guess > could be wire wrapped into a replica RKV11 backplane as a rainy day > project, not that I have the special > module that replaced one of the Unibus boards but I'll keep looking. Info > on this controller seems pretty > scarce apart from the description in one of the handbooks. > > Thanks for any help, > > Steve. > > From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Thu Feb 13 03:47:00 2020 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 10:47:00 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> On 13.02.20 10:13, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like what > the British did and the tunnel under Berlin. > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI Very old news, I am afraid. ?Iranians knew/suspected? that already in 1992, which is why a Swiss salesengineer for Crypto AG found himself in a Teheran military prison, subject to ?intensive examination? No help from the CIA in securing his release.... On a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A few of these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a pittance. If only? I had? known? then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD today.... Jos From tacoman656 at gmail.com Thu Feb 13 05:58:40 2020 From: tacoman656 at gmail.com (Todd Goodman) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 06:58:40 -0500 Subject: Two Kaypro 2 Computers, Disks, Documents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Stephen, I'm interested for $250.? I'm in Candia. Thank you! Todd On 2/12/2020 5:37 PM, Stephen Pereira via cctalk wrote: > I have two Kaypro 2 computers, some disks and some documents that I?d like to sell. > $250 OBO takes the entire lot.. > One of the computers worked the last time I set it up and tried it - a few years ago. > The other one had some problem with the disk drives and did not boot, IIRC. > > If anyone is interested, they are available for local pickup or reasonable drive to a meeting point. I?m in Bedford, NH, just west of Manchester, NH. > > smp > - - - > Stephen Pereira > Bedford, NH 03110 > KB1SXE > > From jwsmail at jwsss.com Thu Feb 13 06:19:52 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 04:19:52 -0800 Subject: International shipping Message-ID: <3748f473-dc80-7eb2-08d6-5b214d0d7461@jwsss.com> Any recent or other recommendations on shipping to Europe? Specifically to Italy? I have the packing arranged.? Item being shipped is an ASR33. budget right now is a bit beyond what the buyer has, but I have gotten the unit for him, and we need to figure how to get it there. weight will be 75 to 100#.? Shipping from Los Angeles.? Doesn't necessarily have to go express shipping, as long as the ride isn't too bad. So far not a lot of options, but Fedex freight has been checked out.? Just not sure of any other freight forwarders to use. thanks. Jim From elson at pico-systems.com Thu Feb 13 10:53:26 2020 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 10:53:26 -0600 Subject: Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E457F06.4070803@pico-systems.com> On 02/13/2020 03:13 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like what > the British did and the tunnel under Berlin. > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI If you find this interesting, the book : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452295475/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Spycraft: the secret history of the CIA's Spy Tech... Is a totally fascinating read. It has a bunch of stories about crazy intercept and spying operations all over the world. Jon From elson at pico-systems.com Thu Feb 13 10:57:20 2020 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 10:57:20 -0600 Subject: International shipping In-Reply-To: <3748f473-dc80-7eb2-08d6-5b214d0d7461@jwsss.com> References: <3748f473-dc80-7eb2-08d6-5b214d0d7461@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <5E457FF0.4080503@pico-systems.com> On 02/13/2020 06:19 AM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > Any recent or other recommendations on shipping to Europe? > Specifically to Italy? > > I have the packing arranged. Item being shipped is an > ASR33. budget right now is a bit beyond what the buyer > has, but I have gotten the unit for him, and we need to > figure how to get it there. > > weight will be 75 to 100#. Shipping from Los Angeles. > Doesn't necessarily have to go express shipping, as long > as the ride isn't too bad. > Oh my gosh! ASR33! Well, you ought to check out Eshipper/Aeroshipper, they can arrange good rates with DHL. I have heard some bad stories, so it has to be packed really well. But, they seem to have the best rates for international shipping I've seen. Here's my contact: efrim at aeroshipper.com Jon From aperry at snowmoose.com Thu Feb 13 11:46:26 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 09:46:26 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables Message-ID: Anyone here have a set of Sun external SMD cables (530-1079 and 530-1080) that they can loan or want to sell? I ordered from a set from MemoryX at the beginning of Jan. They haven?t arrived and MemoryX isn?t answering my e-mail asking what?s up. alan From lproven at gmail.com Thu Feb 13 11:56:57 2020 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 18:56:57 +0100 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 18:46, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > > Anyone here have a set of Sun external SMD cables (530-1079 and 530-1080) that they can loan or want to sell? > > I ordered from a set from MemoryX at the beginning of Jan. They haven?t arrived and MemoryX isn?t answering my e-mail asking what?s up. Can you be a bit more specific? I have a box of old Sun SCSI cables I set aside more or less for this reason, as I gave away or sold all my Sun kit. I am afraid I don't know the exact part numbers offhand, but if you can describe what you're looking for, I'll know whether it's worth going digging. FWIW, I'm in Prague, Czechia. Happy enough to package well and post anywhere if you're paying. :-D -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From aperry at snowmoose.com Thu Feb 13 12:05:50 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 10:05:50 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> On 2/13/20 9:56 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 18:46, Alan Perry via cctalk > wrote: >> >> >> Anyone here have a set of Sun external SMD cables (530-1079 and 530-1080) that they can loan or want to sell? >> >> I ordered from a set from MemoryX at the beginning of Jan. They haven?t arrived and MemoryX isn?t answering my e-mail asking what?s up. > > Can you be a bit more specific? I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? > I have a box of old Sun SCSI cables I > set aside more or less for this reason, as I gave away or sold all my > Sun kit. I am afraid I don't know the exact part numbers offhand, but > if you can describe what you're looking for, I'll know whether it's > worth going digging. They are d-sub male connectors on both ends. Data a single is 25-pin cable, but I have two drives. so ideally need two. Command is a pair of cables, one 25-pin and the other 37-pin. I don't know if the pins are straight through or whether they do any swapping from one end to the other. alan > FWIW, I'm in Prague, Czechia. Happy enough to package well and post > anywhere if you're paying. :-D > > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 > From toby at telegraphics.com.au Thu Feb 13 15:26:46 2020 From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 16:26:46 -0500 Subject: DEC paper, drives, PDUs, chassis, etc (Toronto, Ontario) Message-ID: Hi, I have access to some DEC items for a month or two before a house is sold. Photographs are linked here: https://imgur.com/a/HqxI4JA I can locate and forward any items, if still available, for actual shipping costs and any nominal packaging material costs. Summary: Hitachi ESDI drives RX50 drives (many) TK50 tapes (many) DEC Professional magazine 1987-1994 DECUS software abstracts DECUS software catalogues Controlling Software Projects (DeMARCO) Programming in C with Let's C (Vine) Surefire Programming in C (Stewart) PDP-11 Systems and Options Catalogs 1983-1989 Various databooks, DECdirect, etc DECUScope magazines Copies of RT-11 SIG newsletter(s) issues of digital Canadian Digest, 1980s DECUS Canada mailings digital news & review magazines ("The Independent Newspaper & Test Lab of Open Computing for DEC Sites") various PDU units (see pic) RD52/RD53 drives various empty chassis/backplanes (see pics) BA23 shells (2) various tapes, drives (see pics) As I said, last call, gone in 1-2 months. --Toby From jwsmail at jwsss.com Thu Feb 13 17:42:37 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 15:42:37 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> References: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: <2012bd4f-4394-2fa0-c60f-95d1c3b93a7f@jwsss.com> On 2/13/2020 10:05 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >> I have a box of old Sun SCSI cables I >> set aside more or less for this reason, as I gave away or sold all my >> Sun kit. > Data a single is 25-pin cable, but I have two drives. so ideally need > two. Command is a pair of cables, one 25-pin and the other 37-pin. I > don't know if the pins are straight through or whether they do any > swapping from one end to the other. > > alan > Liam, he's looking for SMD, which need a Bus and Radial.? One Bus can daisy chain from drive to drive, and us usually 60 pin.? The radial RF cables are usually 26 pin ribbon.? A separate cable from the controller to each drive is required to hook up the system. You're thinking about the 50 pin D-sub that went to the older deskside bricks for workstations. thanks Jim From aperry at snowmoose.com Thu Feb 13 18:39:39 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 16:39:39 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <2012bd4f-4394-2fa0-c60f-95d1c3b93a7f@jwsss.com> References: <2012bd4f-4394-2fa0-c60f-95d1c3b93a7f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: > On Feb 13, 2020, at 15:42, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > ? > > On 2/13/2020 10:05 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > >>> I have a box of old Sun SCSI cables I >>> set aside more or less for this reason, as I gave away or sold all my >>> Sun kit. > >> Data a single is 25-pin cable, but I have two drives. so ideally need two. Command is a pair of cables, one 25-pin and the other 37-pin. I don't know if the pins are straight through or whether they do any swapping from one end to the other. >> >> alan >> > Liam, he's looking for SMD, which need a Bus and Radial. One Bus can daisy chain from drive to drive, and us usually 60 pin. The radial RF cables are usually 26 pin ribbon. A separate cable from the controller to each drive is required to hook up the system. https://www.memoryxsun.com/5301079.html https://www.memoryxsun.com/5301080.html When I ordered them just after the new year, it was $124 shipped for two data cables and a command cable pair. The data cables have increased in price by $100 each since then. Maybe that is why my email isn?t getting answered? They have ?one left? command cable pair on eBay for a lower price. I am tempted to buy it except I already paid them for another one. alan > > You're thinking about the 50 pin D-sub that went to the older deskside bricks for workstations. > > thanks > Jim From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Feb 13 18:55:06 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 19:55:06 -0500 Subject: [Simh] Various In-Reply-To: References: <6167693c-1608-47c2-b7cf-790dd0f6da49@snobol4.com> <20200213102754.0000119d@sky-visions.com> <75651ae2-731a-ebef-7c0c-ed0f625ceb2c@softjar.se> Message-ID: <41FC1568-A90C-4E04-9361-88C4893439F5@comcast.net> > On Feb 13, 2020, at 7:35 PM, Timothe Litt wrote: > > ... > Someone wrote a DECtape driver for VAX - I think Stan R., though it wasn't supported. DECtape controllers are odd devices - the TD10 is reasonably smart, but the others put realtime constraints on the drivers that could be hard to meet. Anyhow, by the time the VAX came out, TU58 and Floppies were cheaper and denser media. TU58, denser perhaps, but vastly less reliable and utterly despised by pretty much everyone at DEC. Also very much slower. I heard that the VMS DECtape driver was by Andy Goldstein. The report also mentioned that it supposedly did "overlapped seek", just as the TOPS-10 driver does, but unlike PDP-11 DECtape drivers. I never saw a system that actually had one, unfortunately. paul From cz at alembic.crystel.com Thu Feb 13 16:49:18 2020 From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 17:49:18 -0500 Subject: DEC paper, drives, PDUs, chassis, etc (Toronto, Ontario) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26e10b29-1dca-2af9-cccd-ef732a071564@alembic.crystel.com> Wow. I have a TK25 controller and bulkhead cable for anyone who picks that up. c On 2/13/2020 4:26 PM, Toby Thain via cctech wrote: > Hi, > > I have access to some DEC items for a month or two before a house is > sold. Photographs are linked here: > > https://imgur.com/a/HqxI4JA > > I can locate and forward any items, if still available, for actual > shipping costs and any nominal packaging material costs. > > Summary: > > Hitachi ESDI drives > RX50 drives (many) > TK50 tapes (many) > DEC Professional magazine 1987-1994 > DECUS software abstracts > DECUS software catalogues > Controlling Software Projects (DeMARCO) > Programming in C with Let's C (Vine) > Surefire Programming in C (Stewart) > PDP-11 Systems and Options Catalogs 1983-1989 > Various databooks, DECdirect, etc > DECUScope magazines > Copies of RT-11 SIG newsletter(s) > issues of digital Canadian Digest, 1980s > DECUS Canada mailings > digital news & review magazines ("The Independent Newspaper & Test Lab > of Open Computing for DEC Sites") > various PDU units (see pic) > RD52/RD53 drives > various empty chassis/backplanes (see pics) > BA23 shells (2) > various tapes, drives (see pics) > > As I said, last call, gone in 1-2 months. > > --Toby > From tdk.knight at gmail.com Fri Feb 14 01:57:38 2020 From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 01:57:38 -0600 Subject: DEC paper, drives, PDUs, chassis, etc (Toronto, Ontario) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: im in manitoba what would cost for a ba23 and some pdu's to lynn lake mb? r0b0w0 On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:26 PM Toby Thain via cctech wrote: > Hi, > > I have access to some DEC items for a month or two before a house is > sold. Photographs are linked here: > > https://imgur.com/a/HqxI4JA > > I can locate and forward any items, if still available, for actual > shipping costs and any nominal packaging material costs. > > Summary: > > Hitachi ESDI drives > RX50 drives (many) > TK50 tapes (many) > DEC Professional magazine 1987-1994 > DECUS software abstracts > DECUS software catalogues > Controlling Software Projects (DeMARCO) > Programming in C with Let's C (Vine) > Surefire Programming in C (Stewart) > PDP-11 Systems and Options Catalogs 1983-1989 > Various databooks, DECdirect, etc > DECUScope magazines > Copies of RT-11 SIG newsletter(s) > issues of digital Canadian Digest, 1980s > DECUS Canada mailings > digital news & review magazines ("The Independent Newspaper & Test Lab > of Open Computing for DEC Sites") > various PDU units (see pic) > RD52/RD53 drives > various empty chassis/backplanes (see pics) > BA23 shells (2) > various tapes, drives (see pics) > > As I said, last call, gone in 1-2 months. > > --Toby > From lproven at gmail.com Fri Feb 14 06:15:22 2020 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:15:22 +0100 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> References: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. If you can, good for you. But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 cable, 2 ? MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I can't help you. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From lproven at gmail.com Fri Feb 14 06:17:44 2020 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:17:44 +0100 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <2012bd4f-4394-2fa0-c60f-95d1c3b93a7f@jwsss.com> References: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> <2012bd4f-4394-2fa0-c60f-95d1c3b93a7f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 00:42, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > > Liam, he's looking for SMD, which need a Bus and Radial. One Bus can > daisy chain from drive to drive, and us usually 60 pin. The radial RF > cables are usually 26 pin ribbon. A separate cable from the controller > to each drive is required to hook up the system. This term seems impossible to Google, since it normally refers to Surface Mount Devices now, but by going via the Wikipedia article on SCSI connectors, I think you both mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_Module_Device Is that correct? > You're thinking about the 50 pin D-sub that went to the older deskside > bricks for workstations. I have quite a wide variety of SCSI cables, including 25-pin, 50-pin, 68-pin and more, and covering most of the connectors, both to and from. What I don't have any more are hardly any SCSI-equipped computers, so I guess that the cables can go. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From aperry at snowmoose.com Fri Feb 14 08:09:13 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 06:09:13 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> > On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > ?On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk > wrote: >> >> I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? > > Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part > numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a > single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. > If you can, good for you. I read the label attached to the cable. I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I couldn?t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to tell me that. alan > > But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 > cable, 2 ? MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to > MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". > > However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I > can't help you. > > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Fri Feb 14 08:31:04 2020 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 09:31:04 -0500 Subject: [Simh] Various In-Reply-To: <41FC1568-A90C-4E04-9361-88C4893439F5@comcast.net> References: <6167693c-1608-47c2-b7cf-790dd0f6da49@snobol4.com> <20200213102754.0000119d@sky-visions.com> <75651ae2-731a-ebef-7c0c-ed0f625ceb2c@softjar.se> <41FC1568-A90C-4E04-9361-88C4893439F5@comcast.net> Message-ID: I recall some of the team in Small systems/PDP8 lab playing with audio cassette drives as storage for low cost PDP8, before the VT78. A couple of others of us, were playing with real cheap video modulators. As an aside, that got me playing with ideas for a radar jammer.... something that would work on 12 volts with a pretty fast slew rate, it had harmonics that drove the FCC site in maynard nuts. I sued some of that design in the DMC modem. I did enjoy the test with the hand held radar gun.. device redesigned no range gate pull off tech, just over powering signal. Almost bent the indicator on the hand held radar unit. Probably should have told the cop I was gonna turn it on. On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 7:55 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > > On Feb 13, 2020, at 7:35 PM, Timothe Litt wrote: > > > > ... > > Someone wrote a DECtape driver for VAX - I think Stan R., though it wasn't supported. DECtape controllers are odd devices - the TD10 is reasonably smart, but the others put realtime constraints on the drivers that could be hard to meet. Anyhow, by the time the VAX came out, TU58 and Floppies were cheaper and denser media. > > TU58, denser perhaps, but vastly less reliable and utterly despised by pretty much everyone at DEC. Also very much slower. > > I heard that the VMS DECtape driver was by Andy Goldstein. The report also mentioned that it supposedly did "overlapped seek", just as the TOPS-10 driver does, but unlike PDP-11 DECtape drivers. I never saw a system that actually had one, unfortunately. > > paul > From bharrington at abbistan.net Fri Feb 14 07:51:38 2020 From: bharrington at abbistan.net (Brian Harrington) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 08:51:38 -0500 Subject: DEC paper, drives, PDUs, chassis, etc (Toronto, Ontario) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61ac29a0-ca16-d755-5171-5f7a5a164fe5@abbistan.net> Hi Toby, If they haven't been spoken for, I would love a few ESDI drives. I'm in Baltimore, MD, USA, 21218 for shipping purposes. Thanks, Brian On 2/13/20 4:26 PM, Toby Thain via cctech wrote: > Hi, > > I have access to some DEC items for a month or two before a house is > sold. Photographs are linked here: > > https://imgur.com/a/HqxI4JA > > I can locate and forward any items, if still available, for actual > shipping costs and any nominal packaging material costs. > > Summary: > > Hitachi ESDI drives > RX50 drives (many) > TK50 tapes (many) > DEC Professional magazine 1987-1994 > DECUS software abstracts > DECUS software catalogues > Controlling Software Projects (DeMARCO) > Programming in C with Let's C (Vine) > Surefire Programming in C (Stewart) > PDP-11 Systems and Options Catalogs 1983-1989 > Various databooks, DECdirect, etc > DECUScope magazines > Copies of RT-11 SIG newsletter(s) > issues of digital Canadian Digest, 1980s > DECUS Canada mailings > digital news & review magazines ("The Independent Newspaper & Test Lab > of Open Computing for DEC Sites") > various PDU units (see pic) > RD52/RD53 drives > various empty chassis/backplanes (see pics) > BA23 shells (2) > various tapes, drives (see pics) > > As I said, last call, gone in 1-2 months. > > --Toby > -- Brian Harrington bharrington at abbistan.net From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Feb 14 13:24:44 2020 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 19:24:44 +0000 Subject: International shipping In-Reply-To: <5E457FF0.4080503@pico-systems.com> References: <3748f473-dc80-7eb2-08d6-5b214d0d7461@jwsss.com>, <5E457FF0.4080503@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: Hi You might check with a fellow in the UK, goes by the handle zippysticks, on the VCF forum. He is currently having a ASR33 shipped to the UK from USA. Dwight ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of Jon Elson via cctalk Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 8:57 AM To: jim stephens ; General at ezwind.net ; Discussion@ Subject: Re: International shipping On 02/13/2020 06:19 AM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > Any recent or other recommendations on shipping to Europe? > Specifically to Italy? > > I have the packing arranged. Item being shipped is an > ASR33. budget right now is a bit beyond what the buyer > has, but I have gotten the unit for him, and we need to > figure how to get it there. > > weight will be 75 to 100#. Shipping from Los Angeles. > Doesn't necessarily have to go express shipping, as long > as the ride isn't too bad. > Oh my gosh! ASR33! Well, you ought to check out Eshipper/Aeroshipper, they can arrange good rates with DHL. I have heard some bad stories, so it has to be packed really well. But, they seem to have the best rates for international shipping I've seen. Here's my contact: efrim at aeroshipper.com Jon From jwsmail at jwsss.com Fri Feb 14 15:36:13 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:36:13 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> <2012bd4f-4394-2fa0-c60f-95d1c3b93a7f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: On 2/14/2020 4:17 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 00:42, jim stephens via cctalk > wrote: >> Liam, he's looking for SMD, which need a Bus and Radial. One Bus can >> daisy chain from drive to drive, and us usually 60 pin. The radial RF >> cables are usually 26 pin ribbon. A separate cable from the controller >> to each drive is required to hook up the system. > This term seems impossible to Google, since it normally refers to > Surface Mount Devices now, but by going via the Wikipedia article on > SCSI connectors, I think you both mean: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_Module_Device > > Is that correct? Storage module device, Control data's drive interface. > >> You're thinking about the 50 pin D-sub that went to the older deskside >> bricks for workstations. > I have quite a wide variety of SCSI cables, including 25-pin, 50-pin, > 68-pin and more, and covering most of the connectors, both to and > from. What I don't have any more are hardly any SCSI-equipped > computers, so I guess that the cables can go. > SMD external cables probably weren't that common.? The systems I saw which were of such as 4/280 etc, rack mounted had the cabling internal to the bays and were of the ribbon variety.? They used VME bus cards in a large size carrier for the controllers in the system frame.? The system frame had cards that were about 18" high with an extra bus connector.? But if you aligned the VME cars to fit two of them, there was apparently a vme bus. Those systems that i saw had either 68k processors, or early Sparc processors.? The sun boards used all three bus connectors and the other vendor boards as I sad were usually mounted in a sun dimensioned carrier frame. And reason for all this explanation was that they used a third part vendor's SMD interface. As to the connections to go outside the rack, all the systems I saw had 2 or so smd drives and were racked in a 6' bay with room for a tape drive at the top, system in the center, and drives @ the bottom, and so no need for external. I am speculating that the Alan's system may have the system in a low bay, and drives in a separate bay or bays.? I never saw any sun systems with other than 14" SMD drives, so there were no smaller drive boxes than ones that were full 19" rack sized. Liam, I suspect your cabling might have been for the older workstations, which had "bricks" or "cement block" sized boxes with full size 5 1/4" drives or in some cases 8" form factor drives. And of course, the interfaces that Alan needed was were different than your cabling. Add SMD to the list of terms like microprocessor and microprocessing to the list of mangled terms with two totally different meanings as well. Thanks Jim From jwsmail at jwsss.com Fri Feb 14 15:54:37 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:54:37 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> References: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> On 2/14/2020 6:09 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > >> On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: >> >> ?On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk >> wrote: >>> I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? >> Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part >> numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a >> single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. >> If you can, good for you. > I read the label attached to the cable. > > I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I couldn?t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to tell me that. > > alan The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors have to be rolled to make a round cable.? Each cable type has a recommended way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what proximity in the cable. For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI spec, and I don't know if they standardized the cabling.? Mainly to speculate about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight thru. I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor pairing and fabrication would work.? The 37-37 bus connector probably would work with looser electrical specs to substitute in different cabling. Also just to make things more entertaining on the Oracle site for sun hardware they are using the term "Storage Module Drive" to refer to 6g/s SAS drives installed in individual blades for a blade server system.?? So the term appears frequently in their online docs, and including old documents and current documents. Here's one example of that term on a page https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19452-01/html/821-0911/gkfcf.html If I'm not far off base, I ran across two vendors who may have made the controller if they aren't sun, Interphase, and Xylogics.? Also an article referred to the Sun boards as Eurocard from Xylogics. Xylogics 753. Thanks Jim >> But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 >> cable, 2 ? MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to >> MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". >> >> However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I >> can't help you. >> >> -- >> Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven >> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com >> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven >> UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 > From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Feb 14 16:00:21 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 17:00:21 -0500 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> References: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> Message-ID: > On Feb 14, 2020, at 4:54 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > ... > The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors have to be rolled to make a round cable. Each cable type has a recommended way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what proximity in the cable. > > For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI spec, and I don't know if they standardized the cabling. Mainly to speculate about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight thru. > > I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor pairing and fabrication would work. That reminds me of a situation I ran into about 20 years ago, working for a small router company. They had a long spool of Ethernet cable to verify correct operation with max length cables. But things were not working right. At some point I inspected the connectors and noticed the pairs were connected to pins 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8. So two of the Ethernet pairs were split, since the correct pairing is 1-2, 3-6, 4-5, 7-8. I cut off the connectors and described the correct way; once new connectors were put on correctly the tests passed. paul From jwsmail at jwsss.com Fri Feb 14 16:07:41 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:07:41 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> Message-ID: On 2/14/2020 2:00 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Feb 14, 2020, at 4:54 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: >> >> ... >> The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors have to be rolled to make a round cable. Each cable type has a recommended way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what proximity in the cable. >> >> For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI spec, and I don't know if they standardized the cabling. Mainly to speculate about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight thru. >> >> I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor pairing and fabrication would work. > That reminds me of a situation I ran into about 20 years ago, working for a small router company. They had a long spool of Ethernet cable to verify correct operation with max length cables. But things were not working right. At some point I inspected the connectors and noticed the pairs were connected to pins 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8. So two of the Ethernet pairs were split, since the correct pairing is 1-2, 3-6, 4-5, 7-8. I cut off the connectors and described the correct way; once new connectors were put on correctly the tests passed. > > paul With all the "cat" foolishness the shysters have gotten in and it's about like the old nonsense with stereo amps "watts" and the current "oxygen free copper" cabling for speakers.? Hard to trust any advertised cables and pick ones that actually adhere to any specs. I am not very good at terminating network cables, and prefer to buy all pre-terminated, so what you are referring to is very frustrating.? And I've not even started to touch the 10gb networking realm to figure out how to get optimum cabling and networking set up with that technology. thanks Jim From pat at vax11.net Fri Feb 14 16:19:21 2020 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 17:19:21 -0500 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> <2012bd4f-4394-2fa0-c60f-95d1c3b93a7f@jwsss.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 4:36 PM jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > SMD external cables probably weren't that common. The systems I saw > which were of such as 4/280 etc, rack mounted had the cabling internal > to the bays and were of the ribbon variety. They used VME bus cards in > a large size carrier for the controllers in the system frame. The > system frame had cards that were about 18" high with an extra bus > connector. But if you aligned the VME cars to fit two of them, there > was apparently a vme bus. > > Those systems that i saw had either 68k processors, or early Sparc > processors. The sun boards used all three bus connectors and the other > vendor boards as I sad were usually mounted in a sun dimensioned carrier > frame. > > And reason for all this explanation was that they used a third part > vendor's SMD interface. > > As to the connections to go outside the rack, all the systems I saw had > 2 or so smd drives and were racked in a 6' bay with room for a tape > drive at the top, system in the center, and drives @ the bottom, and so > no need for external. For what it's worth, my Sun 3/140 has a Fujitsu 9-track at the top of the rack, and two Eagles at the bottom of the rack (VME chassis in the middle), wired to the SMD disk controller with the "external" D-sub cables, and it's all contained within one rack. I haven't seen anyone but Sun using this type of cabling. I have a few *long* shielded ribbon cables from other SMD drives/machines that I acquired at some point - I think everyone else probably just ran a flat cable instead. Pat From aperry at snowmoose.com Fri Feb 14 16:42:46 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:42:46 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <082D6778-EC2A-4717-85E2-85E7A4598059@snowmoose.com> > On Feb 14, 2020, at 14:19, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > > ?On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 4:36 PM jim stephens via cctalk > wrote: >> SMD external cables probably weren't that common. The systems I saw >> which were of such as 4/280 etc, rack mounted had the cabling internal >> to the bays and were of the ribbon variety. They used VME bus cards in >> a large size carrier for the controllers in the system frame. The >> system frame had cards that were about 18" high with an extra bus >> connector. But if you aligned the VME cars to fit two of them, there >> was apparently a vme bus. >> >> Those systems that i saw had either 68k processors, or early Sparc >> processors. The sun boards used all three bus connectors and the other >> vendor boards as I sad were usually mounted in a sun dimensioned carrier >> frame. >> >> And reason for all this explanation was that they used a third part >> vendor's SMD interface. >> >> As to the connections to go outside the rack, all the systems I saw had >> 2 or so smd drives and were racked in a 6' bay with room for a tape >> drive at the top, system in the center, and drives @ the bottom, and so >> no need for external. > > For what it's worth, my Sun 3/140 has a Fujitsu 9-track at the top of > the rack, and two Eagles at the bottom of the rack (VME chassis in the > middle), wired to the SMD disk controller with the "external" D-sub > cables, and it's all contained within one rack. I have a 3/260 with the ?storage pedestal?, a pair of 8? SMD drives in a deskside chassis the same size as the system chassis. It was originally purchased and used by Mentor Graphics. A now-former employee bought it and used it for a while, then put it in his open barn, where it sat for a dozen years. He gave it to me last year and I am trying to get it running for VCF-PNW in a bit over a month. The big problem is a particular bit is always staying on during the memory path data test, so it won?t even come up to the boot prom. If I can?t get past that, the lack of SMD cables are not a problem :) alan PS I forgot to thank Liam for offering assistance, so thanks, Liam. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 14 18:45:32 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 16:45:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: References: <7789c96e-c953-6ac0-6585-1a0d7e598044@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part > numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a > single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. > If you can, good for you. 26-1401 TRS80 printer cable - 34 pin card-edge to 36 pin "blue-ribbon" ("centronics"/amphenol) 26-1207 TRS80 cassette cable. Also fits IBM 5150 din to mini-phone plugs (not much of a refutation of your point) From couryhouse at aol.com Fri Feb 14 20:05:35 2020 From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 02:05:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: "itt courier nibble computer" have discovered 2 unpopulated boards ca.1981 there was a,plant in phx.....for IBM cluster terminals.... References: <1704961616.2369372.1581732335618.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1704961616.2369372.1581732335618@mail.yahoo.com> "itt courier nibble computer" have discovered 2 unpopulated boards ca.1981? there was a,plant in phx.....for IBM cluster terminals.... From couryhouse at aol.com Fri Feb 14 20:11:22 2020 From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 02:11:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: d-112 users handbook. Have xtra copy... References: <469985337.2346887.1581732682036.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <469985337.2346887.1581732682036@mail.yahoo.com> Have xtra copy of. Digital computsr controls inc.? d-112 users handbook offers????? From couryhouse at aol.com Fri Feb 14 20:28:47 2020 From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 02:28:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Have extra ge. G11a. First GE landmark transistor for counter and computer cicurits References: <493311792.2346604.1581733727405.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <493311792.2346604.1581733727405@mail.yahoo.com> Ok offer me offlist for our extra transistor unused? in box sealed in original cellophan6... Have extra ge. G11a. First GE landmark transistor for counter and computer cicurits Germanium Whisker Transistors ? Robert Hall returned to General Electric Research Laboratories Schenectady just as Bell announced its point-contact transistor.??Hall had just graduated PhD from Caltech and had previously worked at the laboratories on a range of projects including the Harper North Wartime radar diode project. Dr Albert Hull was Assistant Director of the Laboratory. He was known for his collegial management style with a relaxed approach to the research agenda of his staff members. Hall recalls that Hull came in with the reprint of the Physical Review letters that announced the transistor [Bardeen 1948] and said ?Robert here?s an interesting development from Bell Laboratories. It looks like something pretty new and exciting. Would you like to look into it and see if there?s anything interesting there.? [Choi 2004] General Electric had all the knowhow it needed to duplicate the Bell design quickly. North?s diode programme had diodes that could handle 100 volts back voltage which was state of the art at that time. (Purdue University produced the high back voltage germanium for the Bell point contact transistor.) North?s diode programme and related research ensured it had a manufacturing understanding of the key technologies: High back voltage poly-crystalline germanium; Doping; Point contact design; Welding or forming; and Assembly and encapsulation. Its first designs were crude with two pins for the collector and emitter with the base connection through the case in the manner of the Bell Type A. No socket was available and users were recommended to use a 5 pin subminiature tube socket using positions 2 and 3 for the collector and emitter and to create a base connection by inserting phosphor-bronze strips in positions 1 and 4 and bending them so they contacted the transistor case. The transistors were known as germanium triodes or germanium whisker transistors. Two types were produced evolving from prototype coding through the familiar ?G? designation in use for its point-contact diodes and finally adopting RMA registration: ? ? Prototype G Series RMA Amplifier/oscillator SX-4A G11 2N30 Switching Z2 G11A 2N31 Date Up to 1951 1950 on 1952 on ? The prototype numbers appear in early data sheets and in a General Electric price list dated June 1st?1951 in which the new SX-4A and Z2 transistors were priced at a massive $29 each. The two transistors had the same mechanical and electrical characteristics but the switching transistor was tested for ?trigger action? or negative resistance. [General Electric 1950 courtesy Jack Ward] >From 1952 the transistors had 3 pins with the base connection being soldered to the outside of the transistor?s case. See data sheet ECG-3B. Early General Electric G11 and G11A point-contact transistors.[Courtesy Jack Ward] Production General Electric G11 point-contact transistor [Courtesy?Jan de Groot] From couryhouse at aol.com Fri Feb 14 20:30:04 2020 From: couryhouse at aol.com (ED SHARPE) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 02:30:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Respond to items I offer offlist please References: <1461404941.2366666.1581733804878.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1461404941.2366666.1581733804878@mail.yahoo.com> Respond to items I offer offlist please From aperry at snowmoose.com Sat Feb 15 01:11:37 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:11:37 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> References: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <3ca51041-69a8-7e25-333d-dbf42c7fbdc8@snowmoose.com> On 2/14/20 1:54 PM, jim stephens via cctech wrote: > > > On 2/14/2020 6:09 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >> >>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> ?On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk >>> wrote: >>>> I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? >>> Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part >>> numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a >>> single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. >>> If you can, good for you. >> I read the label attached to the cable. >> >> I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I >> couldn?t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on >> the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to >> tell me that. >> >> alan > The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors have > to be rolled to make a round cable.? Each cable type has a recommended > way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what proximity in > the cable. > > For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI spec, > and I don't know if they standardized the cabling.? Mainly to speculate > about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight thru. I opened up the drive pedestal chassis. At the panel, a 60-pin ribbon cable is split between the two D-sub connectors, 36 (with the #1 pin) on the 37-pin D-sub and 24 on the 25-pin D-sub. The ribbon cable disappears into the chassis, but there are two 60-pin ribbon cables come out, one connected to each drive. As far as the data connectors, I can only access the connector on one drive. On the drive is a 26-pin IDC connector. The ribbon cable attached to the connector is 25-pin and each drive has it own 25-pin D-sub on the back panel. > > I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor pairing > and fabrication would work.? The 37-37 bus connector probably would work > with looser electrical specs to substitute in different cabling. > > Also just to make things more entertaining on the Oracle site for sun > hardware they are using the term "Storage Module Drive" to refer to 6g/s > SAS drives installed in individual blades for a blade server system. So > the term appears frequently in their online docs, and including old > documents and current documents. When I was searching the Interwebs by part number, I found something that categorized the cables as SAS cables, even though the official name associated with the part number says SMD. > Here's one example of that term on a page > https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19452-01/html/821-0911/gkfcf.html > > If I'm not far off base, I ran across two vendors who may have made the > controller if they aren't sun, Interphase, and Xylogics.? Also an > article referred to the Sun boards as Eurocard from Xylogics. Xylogics 753. The SMD controller is a Xylogics 451. It is a Multibus card, so there is a Multibus-VME on the VME board between it and the backplane. The control connector is a 60-pin IDC to ribbon cable split between two D-sub connectors as above. The data connectors is as above, 26-pin IDCs to 25-pin ribbon to 25-pin D-sub. For grins, I tried powering up the drives. They came up and didn't make horrible noises. alan > Thanks > Jim >>> But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 >>> cable, 2 ? MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to >>> MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". >>> >>> However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I >>> can't help you. >>> >>> -- >>> Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven >>> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com >>> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven >>> UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 >> > From jwsmail at jwsss.com Sat Feb 15 02:35:35 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 00:35:35 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <3ca51041-69a8-7e25-333d-dbf42c7fbdc8@snowmoose.com> References: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> <3ca51041-69a8-7e25-333d-dbf42c7fbdc8@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: <3855c90b-8cc5-f3ac-343b-d8418bda8a80@jwsss.com> On 2/14/2020 11:11 PM, Alan Perry via cctech wrote: > > > On 2/14/20 1:54 PM, jim stephens via cctech wrote: >> >> >> On 2/14/2020 6:09 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >>> >>>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> ?On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>>>> I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? >>>> Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part >>>> numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a >>>> single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. >>>> If you can, good for you. >>> I read the label attached to the cable. >>> >>> I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I >>> couldn?t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on >>> the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to >>> tell me that. >>> >>> alan >> The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors >> have to be rolled to make a round cable.? Each cable type has a >> recommended way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what >> proximity in the cable. >> >> For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI >> spec, and I don't know if they standardized the cabling. Mainly to >> speculate about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight >> thru. > > I opened up the drive pedestal chassis. At the panel, a 60-pin ribbon > cable is split between the two D-sub connectors, 36 (with the #1 pin) > on the 37-pin D-sub and 24 on the 25-pin D-sub. The ribbon cable > disappears into the chassis, but there are two 60-pin ribbon cables > come out, one connected to each drive. > > As far as the data connectors, I can only access the connector on one > drive. On the drive is a 26-pin IDC connector. The ribbon cable > attached to the connector is 25-pin and each drive has it own 25-pin > D-sub on the back panel. > >> >> I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor >> pairing and fabrication would work.? The 37-37 bus connector probably >> would work with looser electrical specs to substitute in different >> cabling. >> >> Also just to make things more entertaining on the Oracle site for sun >> hardware they are using the term "Storage Module Drive" to refer to >> 6g/s SAS drives installed in individual blades for a blade server >> system. So the term appears frequently in their online docs, and >> including old documents and current documents. > > When I was searching the Interwebs by part number, I found something > that categorized the cables as SAS cables, even though the official > name associated with the part number says SMD. > They used the exact same name as the SMD drives you have.? But as you say they are SAS, which are the somewhat older cousins of SATA drives, and nothing to do with your dries. >> Here's one example of that term on a page >> https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19452-01/html/821-0911/gkfcf.html >> >> If I'm not far off base, I ran across two vendors who may have made >> the controller if they aren't sun, Interphase, and Xylogics.? Also an >> article referred to the Sun boards as Eurocard from Xylogics. >> Xylogics 753. > > The SMD controller is a Xylogics 451. It is a Multibus card, so there > is a Multibus-VME on the VME board between it and the backplane. The > control connector is a 60-pin IDC to ribbon cable split between two > D-sub connectors as above. The data connectors is as above, 26-pin > IDCs to 25-pin ribbon to 25-pin D-sub. > The drives usually had two 60 pin IDC's one in front of the other. You'd usually put a terminator for the daisy chain of the 60 pin bus cable in the outer cable, and there was enough space between them to put the ribbon cable.? They used braided cables most times I ever saw them. The radial cable had a ground plane type ribbon cable with flat parallel conductors composting the rest of the 26 pin cable.? Had to have one for each drive from the controller to each drive. I was going to suggest replacing the sun mess of cables with just one 60 pin cable and a 26 pin cable, and run with one drive, but realize you probably only have the sun method of terminating the bus (60 pin) cable.? it needs termination at the controller, and on the last drive.? Since your system was set up with the sun connection and cabling, you don't have a standalone SMD terminator, which is a small 60 pin thingie that looks a lot lie the Single Ended SCSI terminator for the 50 pin SCSI IDC cabling arrangement. > For grins, I tried powering up the drives. They came up and didn't > make horrible noises. > > alan > >> Thanks >> Jim >>>> But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 >>>> cable, 2 ? MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to >>>> MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". >>>> >>>> However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I >>>> can't help you. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven >>>> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: >>>> lproven at gmail.com >>>> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven >>>> UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 >>>> 053 >>> >> > From lproven at gmail.com Sat Feb 15 07:27:57 2020 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:27:57 +0100 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <082D6778-EC2A-4717-85E2-85E7A4598059@snowmoose.com> References: <082D6778-EC2A-4717-85E2-85E7A4598059@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 23:43, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > PS I forgot to thank Liam for offering assistance, so thanks, Liam. You're very welcome. Sorry I misunderstood and couldn't help. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Sat Feb 15 12:17:21 2020 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 18:17:21 -0000 Subject: VAXmate PSU Failure Message-ID: <011901d5e42c$2a9c54c0$7fd4fe40$@ntlworld.com> A little while back I posted here because I needed help with analysing the failure of the PSU from my VAXmate. Since then I have had some comments on the reverse engineered schematic which I have now improved and which is here: https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/h7270-control-pulse-width-modul ator.png Following advice from a list member, I have been looking at the 555 and the PWM that control the switching transistor, using a bench power supply to power the PWM directly (across pins 5 and 7). When I do this, I find that Vref from the PWM, which should be 5V to power the 555, does not reach 5V. I have tried removing the 555 from the circuit, and when I do this Vref goes to the nominal 5V, once Vcc to the PWM is above 16V. However, if I put the 555 back in, then Vref only goes to 2V. I have socketed the 555 and tried with two other brand new 555 chips, the result is the same. It seems that just adding a 555 kills the Vref output of the PWM. It can't be anything else in the circuit because everything else is still in circuit when the 555 has been removed. Could the PWM be faulty? Perhaps it can't provide enough current to bring Vref up to 5V once the 555 is in the circuit? Any suggestions gratefully received. Regards Rob From cclist at sydex.com Sat Feb 15 12:38:16 2020 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 10:38:16 -0800 Subject: Teac FD-54 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1fdb4195-a33b-ce91-4870-e3c40ebd0d15@sydex.com> On 2/12/20 4:49 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > I've got a couple of Teac FD-54B's that appear to have problems with their > index sensors. Does anyone have any docs for these? The internet seems to > barely know they exist vs the FD-55, which has info everywhere. I'm thrown > off a bit by the 3 wire phototransistor (vs the common 2 wire ones) they > they use, and I haven't quite disassembled it enough to figure out a part # > for that. Herb Johnson (retrotechnology) has a service manual; also look in the Tandy 1000 service manual--ISTR that there's an FD54 techref buried somewhere in the middle of that thing. -Chuck From pat at vax11.net Sat Feb 15 12:47:42 2020 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 13:47:42 -0500 Subject: Teac FD-54 In-Reply-To: <1fdb4195-a33b-ce91-4870-e3c40ebd0d15@sydex.com> References: <1fdb4195-a33b-ce91-4870-e3c40ebd0d15@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 13:38 Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 2/12/20 4:49 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote: > > I've got a couple of Teac FD-54B's that appear to have problems with > their > > index sensors. Does anyone have any docs for these? The internet seems to > > barely know they exist vs the FD-55, which has info everywhere. I'm > thrown > > off a bit by the 3 wire phototransistor (vs the common 2 wire ones) they > > they use, and I haven't quite disassembled it enough to figure out a > part # > > for that. > > Herb Johnson (retrotechnology) has a service manual; also look in the > Tandy 1000 service manual--ISTR that there's an FD54 techref buried > somewhere in the middle of that thing. > After more diagnosis, it looks like they're TTL level output photo detectors. They have the same looking part for the write protect notch, though that one isn't stuck high. I'm not sure why the index sensors on both are broken, but not the write protect notch sensors. Hopefully once the replacements arrive, replacing that will fix the drives. The drives look pristine on the inside. Pat > From cclist at sydex.com Sat Feb 15 13:38:45 2020 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 11:38:45 -0800 Subject: Teac FD-54 In-Reply-To: References: <1fdb4195-a33b-ce91-4870-e3c40ebd0d15@sydex.com> Message-ID: On 2/15/20 10:47 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'm not sure why the index sensors on both are broken, but not the write > protect notch sensors. Hopefully once the replacements arrive, replacing > that will fix the drives.? The drives look pristine on the inside. The biggest (and most misleading) issue with optical index sensors tends to be dirt. The phototransistor or LED gets obscured by crud and ceases to operate, even though electrically, it's fine. The same phenomenon accounts for many so-called "alignment" issues with floppy drives--the track zero sensor gets crud and the position at which the sensor is interrupted changes. It's a mistake to attempt to re-align a drive before cleaning the sensor. In reality, most floppy drives do not exhibit drifting alignment. --Chuck From elson at pico-systems.com Sat Feb 15 14:09:12 2020 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:09:12 -0600 Subject: VAXmate PSU Failure In-Reply-To: <011901d5e42c$2a9c54c0$7fd4fe40$@ntlworld.com> References: <011901d5e42c$2a9c54c0$7fd4fe40$@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <5E484FE8.50105@pico-systems.com> On 02/15/2020 12:17 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > A little while back I posted here because I needed help with analysing the > failure of the PSU from my VAXmate. Since then I have had some comments on > the reverse engineered schematic which I have now improved and which is > here: > https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/h7270-control-pulse-width-modul > ator.png > > > > The UC3842 datasheet does show you can draw up to 20 mA from the Vref pin, which should certainly power up a 555. But, this is a 5 V regulator, and may not be working properly. it may be that driving several mA to the 555, E2 and other components has cooked it over time. With the 555 removed, apply resistors between pins 1 and 8 of the 555, and see how much load the UC3842 can supply. I'm guessing that at 1 - 2 mA the Vref output is going to collapse, indicating the UC3842 is "weak". If the Vref does droop, make sure the Vcc is still well above 5 V. If so, it has to be the UC3842. If the Vcc is also drooping, then follow the chain back to the power input to find the defective component. It could be Q1, R27 R28, R32 or for some reason the crowbar D19 is being fired. Jon From shumaker at att.net Sat Feb 15 14:29:02 2020 From: shumaker at att.net (steve shumaker) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 12:29:02 -0800 Subject: large HP DesignJet plotter needs a good home References: Message-ID: Classic heavy duty HP Designjet 755CM C3198B? in search of a new home as it's now one stop short of the e-waste people. It's large? (handles a 36in roll) and has the usual DesignJet stand.??? I can even include some NOS ink cartridges. It would need a horizontal belt as they deteriorate even without use but otherwise in good shape; it was fully functional when I removed it from service. I'm not trying to sell it, I just hate to trash it. Not easily shippable, it's located in the Santa Cruz area - I could deliver it here in the bay area if someone wants it. Steve From pat at vax11.net Sat Feb 15 15:11:25 2020 From: pat at vax11.net (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 16:11:25 -0500 Subject: Teac FD-54 In-Reply-To: References: <1fdb4195-a33b-ce91-4870-e3c40ebd0d15@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 14:38 Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 2/15/20 10:47 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > I'm not sure why the index sensors on both are broken, but not the write > > protect notch sensors. Hopefully once the replacements arrive, replacing > > that will fix the drives. The drives look pristine on the inside. > > The biggest (and most misleading) issue with optical index sensors tends > to be dirt. The phototransistor or LED gets obscured by crud and ceases > to operate, even though electrically, it's fine. > In this case, the sensor seems to be stuck "on" as if it were receiving light all the time, so I don't think it's an alignment issue. I verified by pulling the disk out, checking the LED was working, and playing with the alignment of the sensor. I got no change in the output according to my scope. Moving the disk in and out to block/unblock the light from the write protect notch let me verify that that sensor was working correctly. > The same phenomenon accounts for many so-called "alignment" issues with > floppy drives--the track zero sensor gets crud and the position at which > the sensor is interrupted changes. It's a mistake to attempt to > re-align a drive before cleaning the sensor. In reality, most floppy > drives do not exhibit drifting alignment. > The track zero sensor works fine (I could manually move the head and get it to track back, and the drive doesn't have a spec of dust in it. As usual my stuff is the atypical case. :) Pat > From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Sat Feb 15 16:11:48 2020 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:11:48 -0800 Subject: Crimping 68pin (HD68) Wire Message-ID: <0LkRO1-1jb2q424Il-00cRPu@mrelay.perfora.net> Hello All,Recently I tried making some custom SCSI cable. In the past I have successfully made my own 50pin SCSI and Floppy cables with out much issue. However, I am finding it almost impossible to crimp the HD68 connectors on the cable. I have even tried a vise grip and I still couldn't get it to crimp all the way down. Anybody with some advice? Is there a trick I am missing? TiA. From cclist at sydex.com Sat Feb 15 16:52:50 2020 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:52:50 -0800 Subject: Crimping 68pin (HD68) Wire In-Reply-To: <0LkRO1-1jb2q424Il-00cRPu@mrelay.perfora.net> References: <0LkRO1-1jb2q424Il-00cRPu@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: On 2/15/20 2:11 PM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Hello All,Recently I tried making some custom SCSI cable. In the past I have successfully made my own 50pin SCSI and Floppy cables with out much issue. However, I am finding it almost impossible to crimp the HD68 connectors on the cable. I have even tried a vise grip and I still couldn't get it to crimp all the way down. Anybody with some advice? Is there a trick I am missing? TiA. The correct tool helps--and lessens the possibility of damaging the connector. Failing that, a drill press vise will apply uniform pressure.--on the business (connector pin) end, use a small block of wood. But you knew that. --Chuck From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Sat Feb 15 17:02:33 2020 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 23:02:33 -0000 Subject: VAXmate PSU Failure In-Reply-To: <5E484FE8.50105@pico-systems.com> References: <011901d5e42c$2a9c54c0$7fd4fe40$@ntlworld.com> <5E484FE8.50105@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <012e01d5e454$0261fe60$0725fb20$@ntlworld.com> > The UC3842 datasheet does show you can draw up to 20 mA from the Vref pin, > which should certainly power up a 555. But, this is a 5 V regulator, and may > not be working properly. it may be that driving several mA to the 555, E2 and > other components has cooked it over time. With the 555 removed, apply > resistors between pins 1 and 8 of the 555, and see how much load the UC3842 > can supply. I'm guessing that at 1 - 2 mA the Vref output is going to collapse, > indicating the UC3842 is "weak". If the Vref does droop, make sure the Vcc is > still well above 5 V. If so, it has to be the UC3842. If the Vcc is also drooping, > then follow the chain back to the power input to find the defective component. > It could be Q1, R27 R28, > R32 or for some reason the crowbar D19 is being fired. I just tried this with a 1K resistor I had to hand, so 5ma not 1-2ma, and the Vref droops. Vcc does not droop though, so I think the UC3842 needs to be replaced. I will try that. Incidentally, the UC3842 datasheet says that Vcc must have a short-path bypass capacitor to ground. If I socket the UC3842 is that going to be an issue? Thanks Rob From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Sat Feb 15 17:19:26 2020 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 15:19:26 -0800 Subject: Crimping 68pin (HD68) Wire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1MauAx-1jb3ta3MYF-00cOTF@mrelay.perfora.net> Chuck,I do have the correct tool. I used the crimper I normally use for my other IDC cables but just couldn't apply enough force to get the teeth to come through the cable all the way. That's when I switch over to a table mounted vise and it couldn't provide enough pressure to close the two pieces of the crimp.I feel like alignment is very hard and critical for the HD68. The teeth need to come up through the top portion of the connector. I don't think I have seen this with other IDC connectors. -------- Original message --------From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk Date: 2/15/20 2:53 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Ali via cctalk Subject: Re: Crimping 68pin (HD68) Wire On 2/15/20 2:11 PM, Ali via cctalk wrote:> Hello All,Recently I tried making some custom SCSI cable. In the past I have successfully made my own 50pin SCSI and Floppy cables with out much issue. However, I am finding it almost impossible to crimp the HD68 connectors on the cable. I have even tried a vise grip and I still couldn't get it to crimp all the way down. Anybody with some advice? Is there a trick I am missing? TiA.The correct tool helps--and lessens the possibility of damaging theconnector.? Failing that, a drill press vise will apply uniformpressure.--on the business (connector pin) end, use a small block of wood.But you knew that.--Chuck From aperry at snowmoose.com Sat Feb 15 10:45:28 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:45:28 -0800 Subject: Sun external SMD cables In-Reply-To: <3855c90b-8cc5-f3ac-343b-d8418bda8a80@jwsss.com> References: <12E1B5FA-2DCA-43E3-B80A-3466BFCB9323@snowmoose.com> <4549a207-877c-1bc8-99b7-c2e6b1ffbb88@jwsss.com> <3ca51041-69a8-7e25-333d-dbf42c7fbdc8@snowmoose.com> <3855c90b-8cc5-f3ac-343b-d8418bda8a80@jwsss.com> Message-ID: On 2/15/20 12:35 AM, jim stephens via cctech wrote: > > > On 2/14/2020 11:11 PM, Alan Perry via cctech wrote: >> >> >> On 2/14/20 1:54 PM, jim stephens via cctech wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 2/14/2020 6:09 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ?On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? >>>>> Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part >>>>> numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a >>>>> single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. >>>>> If you can, good for you. >>>> I read the label attached to the cable. >>>> >>>> I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I >>>> couldn?t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on >>>> the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to >>>> tell me that. >>>> >>>> alan >>> The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors >>> have to be rolled to make a round cable.? Each cable type has a >>> recommended way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what >>> proximity in the cable. >>> >>> For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI >>> spec, and I don't know if they standardized the cabling. Mainly to >>> speculate about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight >>> thru. >> >> I opened up the drive pedestal chassis. At the panel, a 60-pin ribbon >> cable is split between the two D-sub connectors, 36 (with the #1 pin) >> on the 37-pin D-sub and 24 on the 25-pin D-sub. The ribbon cable >> disappears into the chassis, but there are two 60-pin ribbon cables >> come out, one connected to each drive. >> >> As far as the data connectors, I can only access the connector on one >> drive. On the drive is a 26-pin IDC connector. The ribbon cable >> attached to the connector is 25-pin and each drive has it own 25-pin >> D-sub on the back panel. >> >>> >>> I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor >>> pairing and fabrication would work.? The 37-37 bus connector probably >>> would work with looser electrical specs to substitute in different >>> cabling. >>> >>> Also just to make things more entertaining on the Oracle site for sun >>> hardware they are using the term "Storage Module Drive" to refer to >>> 6g/s SAS drives installed in individual blades for a blade server >>> system. So the term appears frequently in their online docs, and >>> including old documents and current documents. >> >> When I was searching the Interwebs by part number, I found something >> that categorized the cables as SAS cables, even though the official >> name associated with the part number says SMD. >> > They used the exact same name as the SMD drives you have.? But as you > say they are SAS, which are the somewhat older cousins of SATA drives, > and nothing to do with your dries. >>> Here's one example of that term on a page >>> https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19452-01/html/821-0911/gkfcf.html >>> >>> If I'm not far off base, I ran across two vendors who may have made >>> the controller if they aren't sun, Interphase, and Xylogics.? Also an >>> article referred to the Sun boards as Eurocard from Xylogics. >>> Xylogics 753. >> >> The SMD controller is a Xylogics 451. It is a Multibus card, so there >> is a Multibus-VME on the VME board between it and the backplane. The >> control connector is a 60-pin IDC to ribbon cable split between two >> D-sub connectors as above. The data connectors is as above, 26-pin >> IDCs to 25-pin ribbon to 25-pin D-sub. >> > The drives usually had two 60 pin IDC's one in front of the other. You'd > usually put a terminator for the daisy chain of the 60 pin bus cable in > the outer cable, and there was enough space between them to put the > ribbon cable.? They used braided cables most times I ever saw them. There is something that is likely a terminator in another 60-pin IDC on the drive that has exposed connectors. > The radial cable had a ground plane type ribbon cable with flat parallel > conductors composting the rest of the 26 pin cable.? Had to have one for > each drive from the controller to each drive. > > I was going to suggest replacing the sun mess of cables with just one 60 > pin cable and a 26 pin cable, and run with one drive, but realize you > probably only have the sun method of terminating the bus (60 pin) > cable.? it needs termination at the controller, and on the last drive. > Since your system was set up with the sun connection and cabling, you > don't have a standalone SMD terminator, which is a small 60 pin thingie > that looks a lot lie the Single Ended SCSI terminator for the 50 pin > SCSI IDC cabling arrangement. This was a "running when parked" system, so the plan was to just re-cable it as it was. Also, it is being exhibited as a "barn-find" system, so I am trying to use as much of what came out of the barn as possible (even if the dead rodent inside the monitor and subsequent corrosion of its boards means I won't be using it, I may display it). When I can't do that, I am trying to use Sun parts. I ordered the Sun command cable pair that MemoryX has on eBay. It was only $30. As far as data, it seems to me that the Sun cable is an external stand-in for the internal ribbon cable, so a straight-through of all pins with DB25Ms on both ends would make all of the right connections, right? I don't know if I can justify the $135 each that MemoryX is now asking for the Sun data cables. Would DB25M external SCSI cables work or would they be too noisy? Having said all that, after the exhibit, I think that I would like to consolidate the two cabinets so one disk would be in the system cabinet where the broken QIC tape drive is now. alan > > >> For grins, I tried powering up the drives. They came up and didn't >> make horrible noises. >> >> alan >> >>> Thanks >>> Jim >>>>> But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 >>>>> cable, 2 ? MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to >>>>> MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". >>>>> >>>>> However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I >>>>> can't help you. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven >>>>> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: >>>>> lproven at gmail.com >>>>> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven >>>>> UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 >>>>> 053 >>>> >>> >> > From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sat Feb 15 13:44:01 2020 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 19:44:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Happy 74th Birthday ENIAC References: <1858447536.2491522.1581795841050.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1858447536.2491522.1581795841050@mail.yahoo.com> On this, the 74th anniversary of the unveiling of the ENIAC, I've decided to post a couple of things I've been working on. The first is the 3D model of the ENIAC mentioned before. It's designed using brlcad, from the Ballistics Research Lab. It just seemed too appropriate to model it using the tool devleoped where it lived. The thingiverse link is: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4164825 The second thing is a draft of a chapter from a book I'm in the very early stages of. It describes the basic circuit designs used in the ENIAC with SPICE simulations of them. The layout and formatting are based on the old Army Technical Manuals of the time. http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/eniac/ch1.pdf Enjoy, BLS P.S. Apologies if you got this multiple times; I've posted it to a few lists I'm on. From aperry at snowmoose.com Sun Feb 16 11:58:38 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 09:58:38 -0800 Subject: Fujitsu M2372 SMD disk manual and status Message-ID: Two things: 1. Does anyone here have documentation for Fujitsu's M2372 SMD disk? M2382 is on bitsavers, but there are some differences between it and the M2372. 2. I removed the drive from the Sun Storage Pedestal chassis, so I could see what status LEDs are turning on when I power it up. STS0 is solid and STS3 is flashing. Is this some transitory state as the drive is coming up or is this a fault indication? It has stayed in that state for at least 10 min, so I presume it is a fault. If I am reading the M2382 manual correctly and is is applicable to the M2372, the fault "indicates the condition to Power Ready is not correct or the drive detect the unexpected MPU interruption". alan From aperry at snowmoose.com Sun Feb 16 14:11:22 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:11:22 -0800 Subject: CDC 9720 status/control panel Message-ID: <38ee6679-fae2-bb92-7c28-170f330c6549@snowmoose.com> Hi, Does anyone here have a CDC 9270 (SMD HDD) status/control panel that I could borrow to check whether the drive that I have thinks that it is OK? alan From macro at linux-mips.org Sun Feb 16 18:06:09 2020 From: macro at linux-mips.org (Maciej W. Rozycki) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:06:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: H7821 power supply in MicroVAX 3100, SCSI disk enclosures and others In-Reply-To: <01RGTSDYQHTW8X6K5E@beyondthepale.ie> References: <01RGTSDYQHTW8X6K5E@beyondthepale.ie> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2020, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: > If anyone has anything with H7821 power supplies in them, I suggest checking > on these capacitors. If anything with these power supplies is in storage, I > suggest ensuring it is stored the normal way up as this should limit the > ability of the goo to escape and spread around the power supply. Yep, known issue, discussed here and elsewhere several times previously, with these Chemi-Con SXF caps, and also several other lines and reputable brands of that era using a quarternary ammonium salt in the electrolyte that breaks through the seal with time. Several DEC PSUs are affected. Fortunately the H7821 is the least affected as long as the machine is stored in the correct orientation (as you note) as the caps are facing down then, meaning the salt does not interact with the seal thanks to gravity keeping the two away from each other, and the caps along with the PSU remain fully operational. Other PSUs have caps in other orientation meaning they are bound to fail unless the machine one is in is stored in an odd orientation, e.g. upside down. It's best to replace them all anyway at the earliest convenience. Maciej From flash688 at flying-disk.com Sun Feb 16 23:01:18 2020 From: flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:01:18 -0800 Subject: Previous message: Wire list for the RKV11-D Qbus RK05, controller backplane anywhere? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E4A1E1E.2010608@flying-disk.com> Jerry Weiss wrote: > On 2/12/20 11:28 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > > > That fourth card (M7268) is apparently a connector card for the Q-Bus > > > and drive bus. > > > > Yes, but actually there are 6 cards: the M7269 is a dual card which goes > > into the QBUS backplane, and the M993-YA which goes into the first RK05, > > to convert from the two flat cables which come from the M7268. > > > > > From: Al Kossow > > > > > Also, it is only 18 bits. > > > > Actually, only 16-bit DMA addresses, I'm pretty sure. > > > > Noel > > That's what is documented in Micronote #5. There is a comment in the > 15-Dec-1994 DECUServe Journal that says it can be modified for 18 bits > from Alan Frisbie. Yes, it can, and it works well. I ran RSX-11M from RK05s on my 11/73 system. I even managed to find the article I wrote, on a 1986 backup of an RSX-11 disk, now loaded on SIMH on my Alpha/VMS system. I have already sent a copy of the RUNOFF file (and resulting text file) to Dave McGuire, who tracked me down, and will do so for anyone else who would like it. I also have the RKV11-D manual and print set, but they are buried in one of the many boxes in my shop, so it might take a while to find them. If you need them, let me know and I'll dig them out and scan them. Alan "Packrat" Frisbie From useddec at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 02:46:10 2020 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:46:10 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> Message-ID: Hi Jos, True, but I don't talk about information that may still classified. If it's already in the media, it's fair game. Thanks, Paul On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:47 AM jos via cctalk wrote: > On 13.02.20 10:13, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > > I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like > what > > the British did and the tunnel under Berlin. > > > > > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI > > Very old news, I am afraid. > > Iranians knew/suspected that already in 1992, which is why a Swiss > salesengineer for Crypto AG found himself in a Teheran military prison, > subject to ?intensive examination? > > No help from the CIA in securing his release.... > > > On a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A > few of these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a > pittance. > > If only I had known then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD > today.... > > > > Jos > > From jim.manley at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 03:50:39 2020 From: jim.manley at gmail.com (Jim Manley) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:50:39 -0700 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> Message-ID: Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened, and others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going on in The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many. Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why they were getting the big bucks to do it. It's like being surprised when you get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their nature. A regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the form of embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away. They laugh when others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a legitimate government. The Enigma machines were made by a company that produced earlier commercial versions that didn't have the plugboard on the front of the Enigmas, and the rotors were wired differently from those provided for the Enigmas. The commercial predecessors were common in banks and larger businesses that needed to maintain the confidentiality of company-internal and/or customer information, and that needed to be communicated quickly to distant locations. On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:47 AM jos via cctalk wrote: > > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI > > Very old news, I am afraid. > n a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A > few of these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a > pittance. > > If only I had known then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD > today.... > From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Tue Feb 18 05:49:28 2020 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 12:49:28 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> Message-ID: <4a992256e4ab36c14008d4e5892b38c8bac426d9.camel@agj.net> tis 2020-02-18 klockan 02:50 -0700 skrev Jim Manley via cctalk: > Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened, > and > others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going > on in > The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many. > > Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why > they > were getting the big bucks to do it. It's like being surprised when > you > get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their > nature. A > regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the > form of > embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of > the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away. They laugh > when > others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a > legitimate government. ??? Remember the Monroe doctrine ? Including the overthrow of the monarchy of Hawaii (or Texas for that matter) so whom is/was the bigger shark ? With regards to the Iranian money: the US previously accepted the arbitration. Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be a simple matter of who is the strongest. From wrcooke at wrcooke.net Tue Feb 18 06:36:31 2020 From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net (wrcooke at wrcooke.net) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 06:36:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: <4a992256e4ab36c14008d4e5892b38c8bac426d9.camel@agj.net> References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <4a992256e4ab36c14008d4e5892b38c8bac426d9.camel@agj.net> Message-ID: <761087441.320207.1582029391467@email.ionos.com> > On February 18, 2020 at 5:49 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote: > > tis 2020-02-18 klockan 02:50 -0700 skrev Jim Manley via cctalk:> Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened, > Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be asimple matter of who is the strongest. This is now the "Classic Politics" list? I missed how the PDP-11 fits into this discussion. Mr. Manley doesn't speak for all of the US. I respectfully request this stay at least vaguely on topic. Thanks, Will "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery "The names of global variables should start with // " -- https://isocpp.org From holm at freibergnet.de Tue Feb 18 13:49:20 2020 From: holm at freibergnet.de (Holm Tiffe) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 20:49:20 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> Message-ID: <20200218194920.GA26766@beast.freibergnet.de> Jim Manley via cctalk wrote: > Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened, and > others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going on in > The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many. > > Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why they > were getting the big bucks to do it. It's like being surprised when you > get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their nature. A > regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the form of > embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of > the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away. They laugh when > others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a > legitimate government. > You are talking from the US, right? There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your described symptoms. Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741 From jim.manley at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 14:45:29 2020 From: jim.manley at gmail.com (Jim Manley) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:45:29 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: <761087441.320207.1582029391467@email.ionos.com> References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <4a992256e4ab36c14008d4e5892b38c8bac426d9.camel@agj.net> <761087441.320207.1582029391467@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:36 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be > asimple matter of who is the strongest. > Worked pretty well for Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of yes, we, the U.S., over history, who saved most others' bacon over and over again. That includes my father starting with the 101st AD at Normandy and ending at Berchtesgaden, with a POW stint in between after the Battle of the Bulge, when he lost a third of his body weight thanks to the Nazi cleanse. I've spent over a third of my life in similar pursuits of pulling posteriors out of fires of their own making. Don't even _think_ of lecturing me on this kind of subject. > Mr. Manley doesn't speak for all of the US. > Just the parts that matter. > I respectfully request this stay at least vaguely on topic. > And I used multiple PDP-11/70s running RSX-11 on RP-04s and RP-06s to do the above, and much more, as an engineer and a computer scientist. So, there ya go, back on topic, Will. Most respectfully, Jim From j_hoppe at t-online.de Tue Feb 18 08:24:45 2020 From: j_hoppe at t-online.de (=?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=b6rg_Hoppe?=) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:24:45 +0100 Subject: UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1 Message-ID: <2d70c373-7af0-cfc2-e4ed-d905d492f5d2@t-online.de> UniBone emulates now the M9312 bootstrap ROM card. Each of the 5 ROMs can be loaded with MACRO11 listings files from http://www.ak6dn.com/PDP-11/M9312/ The tricky bootvector redirection logic is also implemented. The address to execute after power-on is given as symbolic MACRO11 label. For demonstration the script "m9312+xxdp_dl0.sh" is given, which boots into 11/34 console emulator, or auto-boots XXDP from RL02. kind regards, Joerg From toby at telegraphics.com.au Tue Feb 18 15:08:03 2020 From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:08:03 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <4a992256e4ab36c14008d4e5892b38c8bac426d9.camel@agj.net> <761087441.320207.1582029391467@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: <8911daba-6bd6-9b3d-6057-077471c6a2b4@telegraphics.com.au> On 2020-02-18 3:45 PM, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:36 AM Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > >>> Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be >> asimple matter of who is the strongest. >> > > Worked pretty well for Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of yes, we, the U.S., > over history, who saved most others' bacon over and over again. That > includes my father starting with the 101st AD at Normandy and Is this blather on topic? If so I need to be on a different list. > the above, and much more, as an engineer and a computer scientist. So, > there ya go, back on topic, Will. > > Most respectfully, > Jim > From jim.manley at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 15:08:26 2020 From: jim.manley at gmail.com (Jim Manley) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:08:26 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: <20200218194920.GA26766@beast.freibergnet.de> References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <20200218194920.GA26766@beast.freibergnet.de> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe wrote: > You are talking from the US, right? > There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your > described symptoms. > See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between 1933 and 1945, Holm? Jim From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 18 15:16:09 2020 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (jwest at classiccmp.org) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:16:09 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <20200218194920.GA26766@beast.freibergnet.de> Message-ID: <001101d5e6a0$a40ae170$ec20a450$@classiccmp.org> C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Jim Manley via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe wrote: > You are talking from the US, right? > There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your > described symptoms. > See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between 1933 and 1945, Holm? Jim From jim.manley at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 15:19:35 2020 From: jim.manley at gmail.com (Jim Manley) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:19:35 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: <8911daba-6bd6-9b3d-6057-077471c6a2b4@telegraphics.com.au> References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <4a992256e4ab36c14008d4e5892b38c8bac426d9.camel@agj.net> <761087441.320207.1582029391467@email.ionos.com> <8911daba-6bd6-9b3d-6057-077471c6a2b4@telegraphics.com.au> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: Is this blather on topic? > > If so I need to be on a different list. > Go ahead, if you think you can enjoy ignoring the reality that exists outside an imaginary bubble. Computing was, and is, used for all sorts of useful purposes, including protecting people from their own negligence. We crossed the Rubicon in the late 1980s when it comes to preventing world hunger, because without computing and high-speed telecommunications, production and distribution of food world-wide for a population closing in on eight billion people would be impossible. Likewise for pretty much any economic undertaking in any sector, anywhere, these days. Look what's happening to the supply chains coming out of China now that 1.3 billion people are increasingly being quarantined in response to a virus with a speck of RNA that kills. Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them, even if subsequent stanzas may only rhyme. That includes computing history, as it's been entwined in making all of our existences possible. From ian.finder at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 15:30:02 2020 From: ian.finder at gmail.com (Ian Finder) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 13:30:02 -0800 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <4a992256e4ab36c14008d4e5892b38c8bac426d9.camel@agj.net> <761087441.320207.1582029391467@email.ionos.com> <8911daba-6bd6-9b3d-6057-077471c6a2b4@telegraphics.com.au> Message-ID: ok boomer On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 1:20 PM Jim Manley via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM Toby Thain via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > Is this blather on topic? > > > > If so I need to be on a different list. > > > > Go ahead, if you think you can enjoy ignoring the reality that exists > outside an imaginary bubble. Computing was, and is, used for all sorts of > useful purposes, including protecting people from their own negligence. We > crossed the Rubicon in the late 1980s when it comes to preventing world > hunger, because without computing and high-speed telecommunications, > production and distribution of food world-wide for a population closing in > on eight billion people would be impossible. Likewise for pretty much any > economic undertaking in any sector, anywhere, these days. Look what's > happening to the supply chains coming out of China now that 1.3 billion > people are increasingly being quarantined in response to a virus with a > speck of RNA that kills. > > Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them, > even if subsequent stanzas may only rhyme. That includes computing > history, as it's been entwined in making all of our existences possible. > From toby at telegraphics.com.au Tue Feb 18 15:33:28 2020 From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:33:28 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: <001101d5e6a0$a40ae170$ec20a450$@classiccmp.org> References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <20200218194920.GA26766@beast.freibergnet.de> <001101d5e6a0$a40ae170$ec20a450$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: > C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Jim Manley via cctalk > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM > To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe wrote: > > >> You are talking from the US, right? >> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your >> described symptoms. >> > > See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between > 1933 and 1945, Holm? ^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down. > > Jim > > From useddec at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 23:07:33 2020 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 23:07:33 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <20200218194920.GA26766@beast.freibergnet.de> <001101d5e6a0$a40ae170$ec20a450$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: I started this with good intentions, and I thought the post was on topic. I did not want to start any political arguments, or any arguments for that matter. In my opinion, the intelligence community is the Real World. Few citizens, in most countries, have little idea what happens in the military, and even less of the intelligence community. My father, who was a 1st Sgt in the 28 Div, was also in the Bulge. D-Day was very tough on the 101st. They deserve a lot of credit and respect, and have a remarkable history. On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:33 PM Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: > On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: > > C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Jim Manley > via cctalk > > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM > > To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ; > General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG > > > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe wrote: > > > > > >> You are talking from the US, right? > >> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your > >> described symptoms. > >> > > > > See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside > the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of > thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and > knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between > > 1933 and 1945, Holm? > > > ^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down. > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > From billdegnan at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 21:02:33 2020 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 22:02:33 -0500 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Looking for a DECMATE (VT-278 model) RX278 Floppy Drive Interface Connector cable, part number is RC26N-2L It's a 37 male-25 pin male cable. Here is photo I took of one (not mine) https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECmate/DECMATE_VT278_PortsDriveCable.jpg I have the pinouts for the 37-pin end but not the 25-pin end. If no one has a cable I can do a continuity test of the cable next time I have access one, but it's not easily available. I am located near Philadelphia. Thanks Bill From jesse at cypress-tech.com Tue Feb 18 15:32:05 2020 From: jesse at cypress-tech.com (jesse cypress-tech.com) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 21:32:05 +0000 Subject: HP 12016A SCSI card Message-ID: <601d803c-21d2-4891-2df1-906f2e21bc84@cypress-tech.com> would anyone happen to have a 12016A SCSI card? If so and you want to sell or trade for some other HP hardware, let me know. Thanks Jesse at cypress-tech.com From cz at alembic.crystel.com Wed Feb 19 03:45:43 2020 From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 04:45:43 -0500 Subject: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 pin interface thing from an RX02 in a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow it? C On 2/18/2020 10:02 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: > Looking for a DECMATE (VT-278 model) RX278 Floppy Drive Interface Connector > cable, part number is RC26N-2L It's a 37 male-25 pin male cable. > > Here is photo I took of one (not mine) > https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECmate/DECMATE_VT278_PortsDriveCable.jpg > > I have the pinouts for the 37-pin end but not the 25-pin end. If no one > has a cable I can do a continuity test of the cable next time I have access > one, but it's not easily available. > > I am located near Philadelphia. > > Thanks > > Bill > From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 07:21:05 2020 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:21:05 -0500 Subject: In-Reply-To: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> References: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Message-ID: Thanks chris...its a 37 pin on the vt278 end. On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 7:10 AM Chris Zach via cctech wrote: > Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 pin interface thing from an RX02 in > a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to > the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow it? > > C > > On 2/18/2020 10:02 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: > > Looking for a DECMATE (VT-278 model) RX278 Floppy Drive Interface > Connector > > cable, part number is RC26N-2L It's a 37 male-25 pin male cable. > > > > Here is photo I took of one (not mine) > > > https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECmate/DECMATE_VT278_PortsDriveCable.jpg > > > > I have the pinouts for the 37-pin end but not the 25-pin end. If no one > > has a cable I can do a continuity test of the cable next time I have > access > > one, but it's not easily available. > > > > I am located near Philadelphia. > > > > Thanks > > > > Bill > > > From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 08:54:06 2020 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:54:06 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Crypto AG In-Reply-To: References: <9c84ad63-717e-fd4d-6abd-95e094c734e6@greenmail.ch> <20200218194920.GA26766@beast.freibergnet.de> <001101d5e6a0$a40ae170$ec20a450$@classiccmp.org> Message-ID: IIRC, in the late 70s there was a hand held PDP8 (Intersil 6100 based) variant ot the crypto AG box. PDP8 had been used (some decus contributions) for linguistic and cryptologic applications. The hand held looked a bit like a calculator, but I don't recall it having a capability to connect to any other device, sort of an offline (no external connection) encryption/decryption device like the AG box and others. bb On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:07 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > > I started this with good intentions, and I thought the post was on topic. I > did not want to start any > political arguments, or any arguments for that matter. In my opinion, the > intelligence community > is the Real World. Few citizens, in most countries, have little idea what > happens in the military, and > even less of the intelligence community. > > My father, who was a 1st Sgt in the 28 Div, was also in the Bulge. D-Day > was very tough on the 101st. > They deserve a lot of credit and respect, and have a remarkable history. > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:33 PM Toby Thain via cctalk > wrote: > > > On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: > > > C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Jim Manley > > via cctalk > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM > > > To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ; > > General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe wrote: > > > > > > > > >> You are talking from the US, right? > > >> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your > > >> described symptoms. > > >> > > > > > > See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside > > the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of > > thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and > > knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between > > > 1933 and 1945, Holm? > > > > > > ^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Feb 19 08:54:49 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 06:54:49 -0800 Subject: Larry Tesler Message-ID: https://www.cultofmac.com/685669/larry-tesler-the-apple-employee-who-invented-cut-copy-paste-dies-at-74/ https://twitter.com/cdespinosa/status/1229996808052469760 From lproven at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 09:22:39 2020 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 16:22:39 +0100 Subject: Larry Tesler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 16:10, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > https://www.cultofmac.com/685669/larry-tesler-the-apple-employee-who-invented-cut-copy-paste-dies-at-74/ > > https://twitter.com/cdespinosa/status/1229996808052469760 Oh no. :-( "Don't mode me in!" I saw him speak, just once... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 08:49:58 2020 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:49:58 -0500 Subject: In-Reply-To: References: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Message-ID: sorry if you have already thought of this and I might be wrong, is the 278 cable the same as the vt78 RX cable? I recall the external drive cable was a 37 pin male and a 25 pin male but not all the pins were used in either one. IIRC it was the same connector as used for the DP78 and LPT (DP78 was used instead of LPT, as it was a parallel IO path used by the VT78) Don't know if this helps....My memory is rusty, I did not work on the DecMate series. bob On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 8:21 AM Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: > > Thanks chris...its a 37 pin on the vt278 end. > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 7:10 AM Chris Zach via cctech > wrote: > > > Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 pin interface thing from an RX02 in > > a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to > > the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow it? > > > > C > > > > On 2/18/2020 10:02 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: > > > Looking for a DECMATE (VT-278 model) RX278 Floppy Drive Interface > > Connector > > > cable, part number is RC26N-2L It's a 37 male-25 pin male cable. > > > > > > Here is photo I took of one (not mine) > > > > > https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECmate/DECMATE_VT278_PortsDriveCable.jpg > > > > > > I have the pinouts for the 37-pin end but not the 25-pin end. If no one > > > has a cable I can do a continuity test of the cable next time I have > > access > > > one, but it's not easily available. > > > > > > I am located near Philadelphia. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Bill > > > > > From cz at alembic.crystel.com Wed Feb 19 08:58:01 2020 From: cz at alembic.crystel.com (Chris Zach) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:58:01 -0500 Subject: In-Reply-To: References: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Message-ID: If it will help send me your address off-list and I will drop it in the mail. Just send it back when done. You should be able to map the 40 pin from the RX02 to the 25 pins on the plug, which can then be used to map to your 37 pin pinout on the VT278. C On 2/19/2020 8:21 AM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: > Thanks chris...its a 37 pin on the vt278 end. > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 7:10 AM Chris Zach via cctech > wrote: > >> Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 pin interface thing from an RX02 in >> a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to >> the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow it? >> >> C >> >> On 2/18/2020 10:02 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: >>> Looking for a DECMATE (VT-278 model) RX278 Floppy Drive Interface >> Connector >>> cable, part number is RC26N-2L It's a 37 male-25 pin male cable. >>> >>> Here is photo I took of one (not mine) >>> >> https://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECmate/DECMATE_VT278_PortsDriveCable.jpg >>> >>> I have the pinouts for the 37-pin end but not the 25-pin end. If no one >>> has a cable I can do a continuity test of the cable next time I have >> access >>> one, but it's not easily available. >>> >>> I am located near Philadelphia. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Bill >>> >> From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 10:14:50 2020 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:14:50 -0700 Subject: In-Reply-To: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> References: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:10 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:> Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 pin interface thing from an RX02 in > a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to > the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow it? I already sent Bill the pinouts of both ends, but for the benefit of the list archives, the DB25-BERG end is documented at: http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8docs/rx02pinout.txt -ethan From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Wed Feb 19 10:22:28 2020 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 11:22:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line Message-ID: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Please make sure your messages to CCTalk have a Subject: line, otherwise they end up being 'un-clickable' in the archive, like this: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2020-February/date.html It's possible to hand-edit the URL's to see them, but it's a PITA! Noel From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 11:37:56 2020 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:37:56 -0500 Subject: In-Reply-To: References: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 11:15 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:10 AM Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote:> Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 > pin interface thing from an RX02 in > > a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to > > the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow > it? > > I already sent Bill the pinouts of both ends, but for the benefit of > the list archives, the DB25-BERG end is documented at: > > http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8docs/rx02pinout.txt > > -ethan > thanks Ethan...I saw this page but did not recognize that the pins were labeled to match what's in the 278 manual. One just has to match the label to the pin on the other end. b From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 11:43:42 2020 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:43:42 -0500 Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: sorry about that, not intentional. On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 11:22 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Please make sure your messages to CCTalk have a Subject: line, otherwise > they end up being 'un-clickable' in the archive, like this: > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2020-February/date.html > > It's possible to hand-edit the URL's to see them, but it's a PITA! > > Noel > From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 11:45:12 2020 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:45:12 -0500 Subject: DECMATE (VT-278 model) RX278 Floppy Drive Interface Connector cable wanted In-Reply-To: References: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Message-ID: re-posted with subject On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:37 PM Bill Degnan wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 11:15 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:10 AM Chris Zach via cctalk >> wrote:> Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 >> pin interface thing from an RX02 in >> > a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to >> > the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow >> it? >> >> I already sent Bill the pinouts of both ends, but for the benefit of >> the list archives, the DB25-BERG end is documented at: >> >> http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8docs/rx02pinout.txt >> >> -ethan >> > > thanks Ethan...I saw this page but did not recognize that the pins were > labeled to match what's in the 278 manual. One just has to match the label > to the pin on the other end. > b > From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Wed Feb 19 12:28:06 2020 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:28:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Images of -11/24 in 10-1/2 box Message-ID: <20200219182806.6C7E118C0A1@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Does anyone have an -11/24 in a BA11-A 10-1/2" mounting box? If so, I'd love some images of the internals, if possible! I ask because the BA11-A doesn't use the usual MATE-N-LOC connector for sending power to the CPU; instead it has bus bars, and in the -11/44 (the usual denizen of this box), the KD11-Z CPU backplane has a Flexprint cable which bolts to those, to carry the power. The thing is that the -11/24 backplane uses the usual MATE-N-LOC connectors; to run an -11/24 in that box (the manuals says that's the standard 10-1/2 box for it) the prints show a special adapter plate: that's what I'd like to get images of. If anyone has a spare adapter plate, that would be even better; I'd love to buy/trade it, if so. (I'm interested in running an -11/24 in the BA11-A since in a BA11-L 5-1/4" box, the limited +5VB severely limits the amount of memory one can have.) Noel From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 19 13:44:57 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 11:44:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > Please make sure your messages to CCTalk have a Subject: line, otherwise > they end up being 'un-clickable' in the archive, like this: > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2020-February/date.html > It's possible to hand-edit the URL's to see them, but it's a PITA! In that case, perhaps there could be a special dispensation, that messages that mention politics don't need a subject line? From ethan at 757.org Wed Feb 19 13:54:01 2020 From: ethan at 757.org (Ethan O'Toole) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 14:54:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: > In that case, perhaps there could be a special dispensation, that messages > that mention politics don't need a subject line? Maybe the list could at something like (cct) in front of all subject lines.... - Ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 19 14:40:11 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:40:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: >> In that case, perhaps there could be a special dispensation, that messages >> that mention politics don't need a subject line? On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, Ethan O'Toole wrote: > Maybe the list could at something like (cct) in front of all subject > lines.... That was discussed long ago. The majority, AT THAT TIME, did not want it. Can you devise a way to have [CCTALK] in the subject of every message that does NOT mention politics? From ethan at 757.org Wed Feb 19 15:08:42 2020 From: ethan at 757.org (Ethan O'Toole) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 16:08:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: > Can you devise a way to have [CCTALK] in the subject of every message that > does NOT mention politics? If you did [CCT] then it would be shorter and more actual subject meat would fit on my terminal in my mail client. I don't think I recall political discussion on this list. - Ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Feb 19 16:15:07 2020 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 15:15:07 -0700 Subject: DECMATE (VT-278 model) RX278 Floppy Drive Interface Connector cable wanted In-Reply-To: References: <7400a464-164f-dd57-420a-801c914441c3@alembic.crystel.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 10:45 AM Bill Degnan wrote: > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:37 PM Bill Degnan wrote: >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 11:15 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:10 AM Chris Zach via cctalk >>> wrote:> Hm. I have the bulkhead 25 pin to 40 >>> pin interface thing from an RX02 in >>> > a box, I'm not using it as I am going from the pdp11's RX01 straight to >>> > the drive's controller. That should give you the pinout, want to borrow it? >>> >>> I already sent Bill the pinouts of both ends, but for the benefit of >>> the list archives, the DB25-BERG end is documented at: >>> >>> http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8docs/rx02pinout.txt >>> >>> -ethan >> >> thanks Ethan...I saw this page but did not recognize that the pins were labeled to match what's in the 278 manual. One just has to match the label to the pin on the other end. And for the DECmate end (since I forgot to post that the first time)... it's documented in "ED-VT278-HR-001 DECmate System Architecture Manual" in Figure F-2 -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 19 17:33:37 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 15:33:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: >> Can you devise a way to have [CCTALK] in the subject of every message that >> does NOT mention politics? On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, Ethan O'Toole wrote: > If you did [CCT] then it would be shorter and more actual subject meat would > fit on my terminal in my mail client. That would be GOOD! > I don't think I recall political discussion on this list. In the Crypto AG thread, it reached a point where there was little to no computer content (which I had found fascinating), with half of the posts being political, and the other half refuting those with THE REAL TRUTH. Being an election year in USA, I am concerned that a few too many people will want to tell us THE REAL TRUTH and then be refuted by the political posters. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Wed Feb 19 19:17:15 2020 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 02:17:15 +0100 Subject: Sun 3/60 Message-ID: <6bcfc17fdc7d662926d4ed9c2ce1362fce49144b.camel@agj.net> someone is selling a Sun 3/60 labeled as Nokia Data AB. I think that it is a 3/60. https://www.tradera.com/item/340854/363918390/nokia-data-system-20-4mb 350 $ (2495 Sek) or so. It is a re-seller. From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Thu Feb 20 05:22:35 2020 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 12:22:35 +0100 Subject: 3/60 for sale in Sweden Message-ID: someone is selling a Sun 3/60 labeled as Nokia Data AB. I think that it is a 3/60. https://www.tradera.com/item/340854/363918390/nokia-data-system-20-4mb 350 $ (2495 Sek) or so. It is a re-seller. From rtomek at ceti.pl Thu Feb 20 15:40:03 2020 From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:40:03 +0100 Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20200220214003.GB1470@tau1.ceti.pl> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:40:11PM -0800, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >>In that case, perhaps there could be a special dispensation, > >>that messages that mention politics don't need a subject line? > On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, Ethan O'Toole wrote: > >Maybe the list could at something like (cct) in front of all > >subject lines.... > > That was discussed long ago. The majority, AT THAT TIME, did not want it. I use mutt. I receive few thousands mails a month (this month, as of today, it is close to 4800 already). In mailbox view I press 'l', then at prompt say 'classic' and mutt is capable of showing me everything that came from cctalk/cctech (I guess so, at least). I can also give it something like 'cctalk|cctech|tuhs|coff' and it limits view to cover most of my retro mailing lists. So, speaking just for myself, I do not need [cct] in subject line at this moment. > Can you devise a way to have [CCTALK] in the subject of every > message that does NOT mention politics? I have read recent polit-thread with a kind of amusement. I am still subscribed to Python programming language list and they trash my inbox with questions like "how to sort the list in most kosher Pythonic way". With the kind of mail traffic I get, I have learnt to not care much about unwanted delivery. Natural language processing is probably the answer to your question, but there are ways to bypass simple implementations and not trivial implementations are yet to come, I think. Jay-minator, I mean. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com ** From tomas at basun.net Thu Feb 20 16:06:30 2020 From: tomas at basun.net (Tomas By) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 23:06:30 +0100 Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: <20200220214003.GB1470@tau1.ceti.pl> References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <20200220214003.GB1470@tau1.ceti.pl> Message-ID: <878skwud5l.wl-tomas@basun.net> On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:40:03 +0100, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > > Can you devise a way to have [CCTALK] in the subject of every > > message that does NOT mention politics? > > I have read recent polit-thread with a kind of amusement. I am still > subscribed to Python programming language list and they trash my inbox > with questions like "how to sort the list in most kosher Pythonic > way". [...] Silly comparison. I am not particularly interested in Sun cables either, but that is clearly on topic here. /Tomas From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Feb 20 16:17:39 2020 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:17:39 -0500 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... References: <163601d5e83b$90668510$b1338f30$.ref@verizon.net> Message-ID: <163601d5e83b$90668510$b1338f30$@verizon.net> Hi, Does anyone happen to have the instructions for this kit? I would really appreciate a scan if you do. Also looking for a 1975ish GE Porta-Color television (borrow, rent or buy) for VCF East. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink From rtomek at ceti.pl Thu Feb 20 17:32:32 2020 From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 00:32:32 +0100 Subject: Please make sure your messages have a Subject: line In-Reply-To: <878skwud5l.wl-tomas@basun.net> References: <20200219162228.E454B18C0E5@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <20200220214003.GB1470@tau1.ceti.pl> <878skwud5l.wl-tomas@basun.net> Message-ID: <20200220233231.GD1470@tau1.ceti.pl> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 11:06:30PM +0100, Tomas By wrote: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:40:03 +0100, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > > > Can you devise a way to have [CCTALK] in the subject of every > > > message that does NOT mention politics? > > > > I have read recent polit-thread with a kind of amusement. I am still > > subscribed to Python programming language list and they trash my inbox > > with questions like "how to sort the list in most kosher Pythonic > > way". [...] > > > Silly comparison. Maybe. > I am not particularly interested in Sun cables either, but that is > clearly on topic here. I find this list to be quite on topic, as compared to other lists I use to hear from. Although the said Python list, while perfectly on topic, has also huge noise/info problem. Not the problem with this list, from which I am learning a lot. Speaking of problem with offtopic posts, since I am not sure when was last time I have read the brunt thread (before the one we speak about), perhaps making lots of fuss will also make the problem bigger than it really is? -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com ** From barythrin at gmail.com Thu Feb 20 19:25:03 2020 From: barythrin at gmail.com (John Herron) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 19:25:03 -0600 Subject: Anyone making Amiga/Dallas rtc affected motherboards? Message-ID: Seems like with any system affected by Dallas rtc leaks it's make sense to refab some clone boards we could move our surviving parts to. Is anyone already doing this? It's sad to see the fewer working Amigas and others dying. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 20 19:26:26 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:26:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... In-Reply-To: <163601d5e83b$90668510$b1338f30$@verizon.net> References: <163601d5e83b$90668510$b1338f30$.ref@verizon.net> <163601d5e83b$90668510$b1338f30$@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2020, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone happen to have the instructions for this kit? I would really > appreciate a scan if you do. > Also looking for a 1975ish GE Porta-Color television (borrow, rent or buy) > for VCF East. > Thanks, > Bill Sudbrink Please let us know what you find. Howard Fullmer created a "beefier" power supply for the Altair. Ed Roberts said that people selling aftermarket peripherals were "parasites", so Howard named his company "Parasitic Engineering". He later produced the "Shuffleboard" (daughterboard) set for TRS80 that changed the memory map to be CP/M compatible, and an adapter (daughterboard) to change the exp-ansion interface to support 8" single density. (4th West Coast Computer Faire 1979) He and George Morrow put out early proposals for standardizing S100. Later, he was chief engineer for Morrow. He is no longer at the same addresses in north Berkeley and Albany. I heard a rumor that he had died, but I have been unable to find more information. George Morrow, who would know, is also dead. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com Thu Feb 20 21:23:46 2020 From: c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com (Murray McCullough) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:23:46 -0500 Subject: Larry Tesler - Computer Pioneer Message-ID: Heard of death today of Larry Tesler, pioneer worker at Xerox Parc. He advanced the era of human-computer interaction. He 'created' copy- and-paste and cut-and-paste which made everyday computing in DOS-age easier before GUI-age made mouse-driven commands easier on computer users. Early pioneers are leaving us and I state their drive to innovate to advance computer-use easier is being lost. Happy computing all. Murray ? From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Feb 20 22:52:57 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 20:52:57 -0800 Subject: Larry Tesler - Computer Pioneer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <206eead7-edf1-ea40-cc7d-ca69c9473668@bitsavers.org> > Heard of death today of Larry Tesler Does ANYONE bother to read the list before posting? From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Feb 20 23:18:02 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:18:02 -0800 Subject: related parts? Message-ID: <55cf55e2-87fd-4f26-20d5-ec8cd41848f7@bitsavers.org> 24-bit front panel https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computer-Control-Panel-Concept-Development-Inc-Model-T-119-12-X-19/313004537395 diode memory https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computer-Printed-Circuit-Board-Memory-Array-DDI-908/283788894622 From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Feb 20 23:22:50 2020 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:22:50 -0800 Subject: Larry Tesler - Computer Pioneer In-Reply-To: <206eead7-edf1-ea40-cc7d-ca69c9473668@bitsavers.org> References: <206eead7-edf1-ea40-cc7d-ca69c9473668@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <16CDE5F2-B75F-4268-802E-B5E29A5343D9@reanimators.org> On Feb 20, 2020, at 20:52, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote (after Murray McCullough): >> Heard of death today of Larry Tesler > > Does ANYONE bother to read the list before posting? Am thinking of LISTSERV, which includes a SET NOMAIL option to save one the trouble. Wonder if you can do that with Mailman? (Looks.) Yup. -Frank McConnell From jwsmail at jwsss.com Thu Feb 20 23:44:19 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:44:19 -0800 Subject: Larry Tesler - Computer Pioneer In-Reply-To: <206eead7-edf1-ea40-cc7d-ca69c9473668@bitsavers.org> References: <206eead7-edf1-ea40-cc7d-ca69c9473668@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <692c9a29-ebae-39c7-1268-e94ec6a31d6d@jwsss.com> On 2/20/2020 8:52 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > >> Heard of death today of Larry Tesler > Does ANYONE bother to read the list before posting? Your post was the first I saw of it, but the media, including computer related is still treating it as news even this afternoon. A huge list like this with that posting as far back as it is (thanks for the post, by the way), may be something we don't all do before asking a question.? Especially if one comes here after hearing it elsewhere. thanks Jim From deramp5113 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 20 21:29:08 2020 From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:29:08 -0600 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... References: Message-ID: I have an original paper manual for it. I?ll try to get it scanned tomorrow. Mike From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Fri Feb 21 07:17:51 2020 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:17:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: Westward Message-ID: Hi, I'm looking for information about Westward graphics workstations, especially for the 2019 (from about 1983) and the 2220 (about 1987). Christian From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Feb 21 12:47:55 2020 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:47:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> from Roger Addy via cctech at "Feb 21, 20 10:19:40 am" Message-ID: <202002211847.01LIltS88257598@floodgap.com> > I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a > piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used. I'm > wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network? > If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would > like to be able to transfer files and possibly print. The file systems > are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files. Anyone have any > thoughts? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it > would be beneficial. Thinnet is "just Ethernet." All you need is some sort of transceiver to connect it, and many old hubs have Thinnet ports right on them (my trusty 10baseT Allied Telesyn hub has such a port). -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- ACTUAL CLASSIFIED AD: Parachute, used once, never opened, small stain. $100 From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Feb 21 12:47:55 2020 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:47:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> from Roger Addy via cctech at "Feb 21, 20 10:19:40 am" Message-ID: <202002211847.01LIltS88257598@floodgap.com> > I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a > piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used. I'm > wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network? > If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would > like to be able to transfer files and possibly print. The file systems > are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files. Anyone have any > thoughts? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it > would be beneficial. Thinnet is "just Ethernet." All you need is some sort of transceiver to connect it, and many old hubs have Thinnet ports right on them (my trusty 10baseT Allied Telesyn hub has such a port). -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- ACTUAL CLASSIFIED AD: Parachute, used once, never opened, small stain. $100 From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Feb 21 13:02:15 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:02:15 -0500 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <202002211847.01LIltS88257598@floodgap.com> References: <202002211847.01LIltS88257598@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <2A6265C9-37B9-42DA-B666-9F1E2C8E933B@comcast.net> > On Feb 21, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > >> I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a >> piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used. I'm >> wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network? >> If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would >> like to be able to transfer files and possibly print. The file systems >> are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files. Anyone have any >> thoughts? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it >> would be beneficial. > > Thinnet is "just Ethernet." All you need is some sort of transceiver to > connect it, and many old hubs have Thinnet ports right on them (my trusty > 10baseT Allied Telesyn hub has such a port). I think I have the same model. One other possibility, just in case you have that kind of gear: if you have any classic (thick Ethernet) transceivers, you can connect a thick Ethernet cable to a thin one. Just use an N to BNC adapter (barrel, not T connector as some fools at the magazine RSTS Professional did years ago). You'd apply the thinwire cable length and station count limits, in the unlikely event it matters. Terminate at each end (of the whole cable assembly) as always. Both cables are 50 ohms, which is sufficient (the differences in cable loss and propagation velocity are irrelevant). paul From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Feb 21 17:23:48 2020 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:23:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Thinnet and Thinnet gear was Re: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <2A6265C9-37B9-42DA-B666-9F1E2C8E933B@comcast.net> from Paul Koning at "Feb 21, 20 02:02:15 pm" Message-ID: <202002212323.01LNNmTa20774966@floodgap.com> > > Thinnet is "just Ethernet." All you need is some sort of transceiver to > > connect it, and many old hubs have Thinnet ports right on them (my trusty > > 10baseT Allied Telesyn hub has such a port). > > I think I have the same model. It's an MR820TR. It's been in continuous service with me personally for over 20 years, and is of course even older than that. The thing just doesn't die. I also have one of the slightly later variant that displays "network load" as a spare, but it has never needed to be put in service. There's also a whole mess of the 210T transceivers here that breed furiously in drawers like hamsters. On the whole I like(d) Allied Telesyn gear. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Time makes more converts than reason. -- Thomas Payne ---------------------- From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Feb 21 17:26:31 2020 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 18:26:31 -0500 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <170901d5e90e$59fceea0$0df6cbe0$@verizon.net> I really appreciate it! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Douglas via cctalk Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:29 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... I have an original paper manual for it. I?ll try to get it scanned tomorrow. Mike From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Feb 21 17:38:00 2020 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (William Sudbrink) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 18:38:00 -0500 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... In-Reply-To: References: <163601d5e83b$90668510$b1338f30$.ref@verizon.net> <163601d5e83b$90668510$b1338f30$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <170a01d5e90f$f4bb8950$de329bf0$@verizon.net> I have an Altair with the power supply mod and a printed copy of the power supply instructions. I don't think the printed instructions are original. As a matter of fact, I think they are probably printed from deramps's scan. Mr. Ahl's "Saga of a System" mentions both the PS mod and the clock mod although it does not suggest that he ever installed the clock mod. I'd still like to show it at VCF East if possible. Bill S. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin via cctalk Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 8:26 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... On Thu, 20 Feb 2020, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone happen to have the instructions for this kit? I would really > appreciate a scan if you do. > Also looking for a 1975ish GE Porta-Color television (borrow, rent or buy) > for VCF East. > Thanks, > Bill Sudbrink Please let us know what you find. Howard Fullmer created a "beefier" power supply for the Altair. Ed Roberts said that people selling aftermarket peripherals were "parasites", so Howard named his company "Parasitic Engineering". He later produced the "Shuffleboard" (daughterboard) set for TRS80 that changed the memory map to be CP/M compatible, and an adapter (daughterboard) to change the exp-ansion interface to support 8" single density. (4th West Coast Computer Faire 1979) He and George Morrow put out early proposals for standardizing S100. Later, he was chief engineer for Morrow. He is no longer at the same addresses in north Berkeley and Albany. I heard a rumor that he had died, but I have been unable to find more information. George Morrow, who would know, is also dead. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From Wayne.Smith at warnerbros.com Fri Feb 21 20:28:59 2020 From: Wayne.Smith at warnerbros.com (Smith, Wayne) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 02:28:59 +0000 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:26:26 -0800 (PST) > From: Fred Cisin > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: Re: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Howard Fullmer created a "beefier" power supply for the Altair. Ed > Roberts said that people selling aftermarket peripherals were "parasites", > so Howard named his company "Parasitic Engineering". > > He later produced the "Shuffleboard" (daughterboard) set for TRS80 that > changed the memory map to be CP/M compatible, and an adapter > (daughterboard) to change the exp-ansion interface to support 8" single > density. (4th West Coast Computer Faire 1979) > > He and George Morrow put out early proposals for standardizing S100. > > Later, he was chief engineer for Morrow. > > He is no longer at the same addresses in north Berkeley and Albany. > I heard a rumor that he had died, but I have been unable to find more > information. George Morrow, who would know, is also dead. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com It appears that he died on 4/25/96 at age 48. His last address was in Hayward. -W From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 21 21:03:07 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:03:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Howard Fullmer, Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> Howard Fullmer created a "beefier" power supply, and other peripherals, >> for the Altair. Ed Roberts said that people selling aftermarket >> peripherals were "parasites", so Howard named his company "Parasitic >> Engineering" >> . . . >> He and George Morrow put out early proposals for standardizing S100. >> Later, he was chief engineer for Morrow. On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, Smith, Wayne via cctalk wrote: > It appears that he died on 4/25/96 at age 48. His last address was in Hayward. THANK YOU. Murray, are you listening? Many GREAT people have died forgotten and unnoticed. Howard Fullmer and George Morrow tried [admittedly not completely unsuccessfully] to standardize the S100 bus. And he was responsible for numerous significant innovations at Morrow Designs (once "Thinker Toys") There were some dirty tricks played that got the enormous IRS contract awarded to Zenith instead of Morrow, which was a large part of the death of the company rather than it continuing to be a leader. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From deramp5113 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 21 09:29:55 2020 From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <144684083.6258512.1582298995098@mail.yahoo.com> I scanned my Parasitic clock mod documents and put them at the link below. https://deramp.com/downloads/altair/hardware/altair_8800_computer/Parasitic%20Clock%20Mod.pdf Mike On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 09:29:09 PM CST, Mike Douglas wrote: I have an original paper manual for it. I?ll try to get it scanned tomorrow. Mike From roger.addy at charter.net Fri Feb 21 12:19:40 2020 From: roger.addy at charter.net (Roger Addy) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:19:40 -0800 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN Message-ID: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> Hi All, I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used.? I'm wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network?? If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would like to be able to transfer files and possibly print.? The file systems are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files.? Anyone have any thoughts?? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it would be beneficial. Thank you, Roger A. From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Feb 21 12:32:19 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 13:32:19 -0500 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> References: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> Message-ID: > On Feb 21, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Roger Addy via cctech wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used. I'm wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network? If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would like to be able to transfer files and possibly print. The file systems are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files. Anyone have any thoughts? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it would be beneficial. Assuming it's standard 10Base2 Ethernet, you need either a 2 to T adapter, a repeater with BNC as well as RJ45 connectors, or a repeater with an AUI connector plus a 10Base2 AUI. I still have tucked away somewhere a repeater with a couple of RJ45 ports plus a BNC port. You'll also need at least one terminator -- most likely a 10BaseT repeater port is internally terminated but the NIC almost certainly is not, meaning you'd have to hook it up with a T connector that has a terminator on it. Given the above hardware, you'd connect either to a 10/100 switch, or a 10/100/1000 switch. Supposedly Gigabit Ethernet devices are supposed to be backward compatible all the way to 10 Mb Ethernet, but I'm not so sure this is at all common. But I'd expect a 100 Mb switch to support 10 Mb Ethernet. (Any that don't probably aren't worth using because such a major conformance failure suggests other failures might be present as well.) paul From phb.hfx at gmail.com Fri Feb 21 13:08:41 2020 From: phb.hfx at gmail.com (Paul Berger) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:08:41 -0400 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> References: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> Message-ID: <8eaa886a-4136-bf1b-a67f-61668115e1c9@gmail.com> The 360 seems to have a 15 pin AUI connector as well as the thin connector so you can get a 10-BAseT transceiver and connect it to the AUI that is what I did for my 380.? I don't think there is any support for ethernet in things like Workstation BASIC you would likely need to be using a OS like HP-UX Paul. On 2020-02-21 2:19 p.m., Roger Addy via cctech wrote: > Hi All, > > I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a > piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used.? > I'm wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet > network?? If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on > Amazon. I would like to be able to transfer files and possibly print.? > The file systems are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files.? > Anyone have any thoughts?? Even if I could transfer files into another > HP 9000 system it would be beneficial. > > Thank you, > > Roger A. > From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Feb 21 13:20:07 2020 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:20:07 -0800 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> References: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> Message-ID: On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:19, Roger Addy via cctech wrote: > I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used. I'm wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network? If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would like to be able to transfer files and possibly print. The file systems are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files. Anyone have any thoughts? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it would be beneficial. It's classic 10Mb/s 10BASE2 Ethernet over RG-58A/U. You can use a repeater to bridge to 10BaseT twisted-pair Ethernet or 10BASE5 "thick" Ethernet. It is also easily (if non-standardly) adaptable to 10BASE5 "thick" Ethernet with a passive BNC to N barrel adapter on short segments of each, the on-the-wire modulation is close enough to work. -Frank McConnell From deramp5113 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 21 21:25:45 2020 From: deramp5113 at yahoo.com (Mike Douglas) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 21:25:45 -0600 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... References: <8F336A6C-BACB-44E7-B3D4-DFAA00D1E26F.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8F336A6C-BACB-44E7-B3D4-DFAA00D1E26F@yahoo.com> I scanned my Parasitic clock mod documents and put them at the link below. https://deramp.com/downloads/altair/hardware/altair_8800_computer/Parasitic%20Clock%20Mod.pdf Mike From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Sat Feb 22 02:47:44 2020 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 00:47:44 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification Message-ID: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> Hello, Does anyone have the "Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10" specification either in printed/book form that they are willing to separate from or in some sort of electronic format ala PDF? I am mostly interested in the sections on the syntax for EISA CFG files. TIA! -Ali From mmcgraw74 at gmail.com Sat Feb 22 05:57:02 2020 From: mmcgraw74 at gmail.com (Monty McGraw) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 05:57:02 -0600 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> Message-ID: How about this: https://pierrelib.pagesperso-orange.fr/pnp/ESCD_v1.02A.pdf Monty On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:47 AM Ali via cctalk wrote: > Hello, > > Does anyone have the "Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision > 3.10" > specification either in printed/book form that they are willing to separate > from or in some sort of electronic format ala PDF? I am mostly interested > in > the sections on the syntax for EISA CFG files. TIA! > > -Ali > > From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Sat Feb 22 06:04:08 2020 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 04:04:08 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1Mq2KU-1jjmKf1OUM-00n78b@mrelay.perfora.net> Monty,Thanks for the linkage. I believe that document talks about interfacing legacy (EISA/ISA) system with PCI system and exchange of info at the HW level. I am looking for the syntax of the CFG files that define the resources used by a particular piece of HW. I have one document that touches on the subject but it is more like an FAQ written by a third party. Thanks again.-Ali -------- Original message --------From: Monty McGraw Date: 2/22/20 3:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Ali , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification How about this:?https://pierrelib.pagesperso-orange.fr/pnp/ESCD_v1.02A.pdfMontyOn Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 2:47 AM Ali via cctalk wrote:Hello, Does anyone have the "Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10" specification either in printed/book form that they are willing to separate from or in some sort of electronic format ala PDF? I am mostly interested in the sections on the syntax for EISA CFG files. TIA! -Ali From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Sat Feb 22 07:06:42 2020 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 14:06:42 +0100 Subject: Westward In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <552b689ab405a503b4eec31e4c93077170b14616.camel@agj.net> fre 2020-02-21 klockan 14:17 +0100 skrev Christian Corti via cctalk: > Hi, > I'm looking for information about Westward graphics workstations, > especially for the 2019 (from about 1983) and the 2220 (about 1987). > > Christian I believe that is the type of terminals that my school (Sk?vde Sweden) had when i was there in 1987-88. (PRIME 9955 II and Medusa) See if you can get contact with Peter Eriksson (pen @ lysator) He was one of the hackers at that time. From paulkoning at comcast.net Sat Feb 22 08:20:15 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 09:20:15 -0500 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: References: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> Message-ID: <781A5454-1898-4145-82C5-7C9B4D2E5FF1@comcast.net> > On Feb 21, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk wrote: > > On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:19, Roger Addy via cctech wrote: >> I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used. I'm wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network? If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would like to be able to transfer files and possibly print. The file systems are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files. Anyone have any thoughts? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it would be beneficial. > > It's classic 10Mb/s 10BASE2 Ethernet over RG-58A/U. You can use a repeater to bridge to 10BaseT twisted-pair Ethernet or 10BASE5 "thick" Ethernet. It is also easily (if non-standardly) adaptable to 10BASE5 "thick" Ethernet with a passive BNC to N barrel adapter on short segments of each, the on-the-wire modulation is close enough to work. Not merely "close enough" but "identical". paul From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Feb 22 09:31:34 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 07:31:34 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> Message-ID: <46c89b27-bc29-3aa5-7301-5f6d3e5ddd22@bitsavers.org> On 2/22/20 12:47 AM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Hello, > > Does anyone have the "Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10" > specification either in printed/book form that they are willing to separate > from or in some sort of electronic format ala PDF? I am mostly interested in > the sections on the syntax for EISA CFG files. TIA! > > -Ali > there is a terse summary starting at page 104 of "EISA System Architecture" published by MindShare the spec was only released to members of the EISA consortium same problem with PCI, etc. etc. specs From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Feb 22 09:41:28 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 07:41:28 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: <46c89b27-bc29-3aa5-7301-5f6d3e5ddd22@bitsavers.org> References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> <46c89b27-bc29-3aa5-7301-5f6d3e5ddd22@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On 2/22/20 7:31 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > the spec was only released to members of the EISA consortium > same problem with PCI, etc. etc. specs > > Global Engineering Documents sells it, their search is currently down so I can't tell how expensive a copy is From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Feb 22 09:42:07 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 07:42:07 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: <46c89b27-bc29-3aa5-7301-5f6d3e5ddd22@bitsavers.org> References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> <46c89b27-bc29-3aa5-7301-5f6d3e5ddd22@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: 3.12 was the last release of the spec From abuse at cabal.org.uk Sat Feb 22 10:42:29 2020 From: abuse at cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 17:42:29 +0100 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> Message-ID: <20200222164229.GA9730@mooli.org.uk> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:47:44AM -0800, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have the "Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10" > specification either in printed/book form that they are willing to separate > from or in some sort of electronic format ala PDF? I am mostly interested in > the sections on the syntax for EISA CFG files. TIA! I skim-searched a dodgy source known to contain weird and wonderful standards documents and other tech references that are still under copyright so tend not to be on the surface web. Sadly, the title you want didn't turn up, but "Eisa System Architecture" (020140995X) did. It's not a standards document, but the second half of chapter 9 discusses CFG files and gives an example including a breakdown of what the fields mean, which might be enough to get you going. The book is under seven bucks on Amazon if you're feeling honest and/or prefer paper. From stephen.m.pereira.sr at gmail.com Sat Feb 22 12:30:13 2020 From: stephen.m.pereira.sr at gmail.com (Stephen Pereira) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 13:30:13 -0500 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks a million, Mike, for scanning and posting this. I purchased this fix for my Altair way back when for $15, and it?s been one of those things that I?ve never been able to find online. I never purchased the Parasitic Engineering power supply fix, but I have found it online. The Parasitic Engineering clock fix has eluded me until now. BTW, IIRC, the PE clock fix worked excellently and I never had any clock related issues after installing it. The S-100 bus, the weak power supply, not enough slots, all those wires on the bus, all gave me plenty of headaches, but the clock fix worked great! smp - - - Stephen Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE > On Feb 22, 2020, at 1:00 PM, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 21:25:45 -0600 > From: Mike Douglas > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... > Message-ID: <8F336A6C-BACB-44E7-B3D4-DFAA00D1E26F at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I scanned my Parasitic clock mod documents and put them at the link below. > > https://deramp.com/downloads/altair/hardware/altair_8800_computer/Parasitic%20Clock%20Mod.pdf > > Mike > From w9gb at icloud.com Sat Feb 22 13:13:10 2020 From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 13:13:10 -0600 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN Message-ID: <28795546-D772-4320-AB3E-883FED3A3574@icloud.com> Some days I feel like ?Doc Brown?, wondering where I parked the DeLorean. ? YES ... connecting your HP 9000 to your private LAN would be useful. ThinNet = 10-Base-2 = 10 MB Ethernet over RG-58/U 50 ohm coaxial cable. The Series 360 workstation should also have an AUI port (15-pin D-subminiature with locking mechanism option). ? I would recommend an AUI transceiver to 10-Base-T media converter (UTP with 8-pin modular jack). Black Box, Unicom, and other brands are available. https://www.omnitron-systems.com/flexpoint-10-aui-media-converter.php You did not mention the Operating System (OS) that you have installed on this HP 9000 series 360. HP-UX was the standard OS offering 30 years ago, when I went thru HP?s one month of classroom training on HP9000 hardware, networking, & HP-UX. https://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?class=1&cat=40 You will need the Ethernet network driver installed for your OS, and standard TCP/IP tools (telnet, ssh, ftp, nfs, etc.). greg chicago ==== Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:19:40 -0800 From: Roger Addy To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN Hi All, I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used.? I'm wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network?? If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would like to be able to transfer files and possibly print.? The file systems are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files.? Anyone have any thoughts?? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it would be beneficial. Thank you, Roger A. From nw.johnson at ieee.org Sat Feb 22 13:52:08 2020 From: nw.johnson at ieee.org (Nigel Johnson) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 14:52:08 -0500 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <28795546-D772-4320-AB3E-883FED3A3574@icloud.com> References: <28795546-D772-4320-AB3E-883FED3A3574@icloud.com> Message-ID: <6b21ea4a-13a9-c957-3e45-772a2dec9ae1@ieee.org> You can also use RG174 to go between cracks in floor tiles as I did once in my apartment.? It was easier than cutting hole sin concrete to get where I wanted to go (well before wi-fi) As a consultant said when he saw it, "I have heard of thin-net but that is ridiculous! cheers, NIgel On 22/02/2020 14:13, Gregory Beat via cctech wrote: > Some days I feel like ?Doc Brown?, wondering where I parked the DeLorean. > ? > YES ... connecting your HP 9000 to your private LAN would be useful. > > ThinNet = 10-Base-2 = 10 MB Ethernet over RG-58/U 50 ohm coaxial cable. > The Series 360 workstation should also have an AUI port (15-pin D-subminiature with locking mechanism option). > ? > I would recommend an AUI transceiver to 10-Base-T media converter (UTP with 8-pin modular jack). Black Box, Unicom, and other brands are available. > https://www.omnitron-systems.com/flexpoint-10-aui-media-converter.php > > You did not mention the Operating System (OS) that you have installed on this HP 9000 series 360. HP-UX was the standard OS offering 30 years ago, when I went thru HP?s one month of classroom training on HP9000 hardware, networking, & HP-UX. > https://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?class=1&cat=40 > > You will need the Ethernet network driver installed for your OS, and standard TCP/IP tools (telnet, ssh, ftp, nfs, etc.). > > greg > chicago > ==== > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:19:40 -0800 > From: Roger Addy > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN > > Hi All, > I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a > piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used.? I'm > wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network?? > If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would > like to be able to transfer files and possibly print.? The file systems > are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files.? Anyone have any > thoughts?? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it > would be beneficial. > > Thank you, > > Roger A. -- Nigel Johnson MSc., MIEEE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591 If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. Nigel Johnson Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message From mbbrutman at brutman.com Sat Feb 22 21:25:17 2020 From: mbbrutman at brutman.com (Michael Brutman) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:25:17 -0800 Subject: VCF PNW 2020: Seattle, March 21st and 22nd Message-ID: Come join us at Living Computers:Museum+Labs next month for VCF PNW 2020! Here is what you can look forward to: - 24 exhibits, ranging from big iron to 8 bitters - 6 presentations including one from Bil Herd and one from Joe Decuir - Our first vintage computer typing contest! (Yes, it will be hilarious) - A consignment area for buying and selling treasure - The museum. A very nice museum at that. Details can be found at http://vcfed.org/vcf-pnw . Mike From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Sun Feb 23 01:45:58 2020 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 23:45:58 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: <20200222164229.GA9730@mooli.org.uk> References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> <20200222164229.GA9730@mooli.org.uk> Message-ID: <04f401d5ea1d$4ab4ed20$e01ec760$@net> > I skim-searched a dodgy source known to contain weird and wonderful > standards > documents and other tech references that are still under copyright so > tend not > to be on the surface web. Sadly, the title you want didn't turn up, but > "Eisa > System Architecture" (020140995X) did. It's not a standards document, > but the > second half of chapter 9 discusses CFG files and gives an example > including a > breakdown of what the fields mean, which might be enough to get you > going. Peter, Thanks for checking. I was able to borrow a copy of the book from the Internet Archive and looked through the pertinent chapter. While it does do a nice illustration of a CFG file it does not address any questions on specifics. I may still pick up the book to have as a reference although it seems aimed mostly at the HW guys. Thanks for the pointer! -Ali From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Sun Feb 23 01:45:58 2020 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 23:45:58 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> <46c89b27-bc29-3aa5-7301-5f6d3e5ddd22@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <04f501d5ea1d$4b733410$e2599c30$@net> 7:31 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > the spec was only released to members of the EISA consortium > > same problem with PCI, etc. etc. specs > > > > > > Global Engineering Documents sells it, their search is currently down > so I can't tell how expensive a copy is Al, Are you talking about the standards/specs or "EISA System Architecture" book? I did find this site: www.roma1.infn.it/SIC/_OLD_documentazione/unix/migr/digital-unix-doc/DOCUMENTATION/HTML/AA-Q0R6C-TET1_html/eisabus12.html It does give a very good primer on the syntax. Using the info there plus trial and error I have gotten most of the basics worked out but it would be great to have the actual syntax for more sophisticated CFG files. I am surprised that after thirty or so years and many of the original "gang of nine" being gone the standard has not made its way into the wild..... -Ali From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Feb 23 06:14:37 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 04:14:37 -0800 Subject: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification In-Reply-To: <04f501d5ea1d$4b733410$e2599c30$@net> References: <04de01d5e95c$c09ac850$41d058f0$@net> <46c89b27-bc29-3aa5-7301-5f6d3e5ddd22@bitsavers.org> <04f501d5ea1d$4b733410$e2599c30$@net> Message-ID: <2dcdf609-2997-b458-eb2a-115fec80f6a3@bitsavers.org> On 2/22/20 11:45 PM, Ali wrote: > I am surprised that after thirty or so years and many of the original "gang of nine" being gone the standard has not made its way into the wild..... I was as well, which was why I tried digging for it as much as I did Global Engineering's standards search is really bad. I wasn't able to determine if they actually still sell it and I assume BCPR is long gone. From mark at markesystems.com Sun Feb 23 12:11:06 2020 From: mark at markesystems.com (mark at markesystems.com) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:11:06 -0800 Subject: Looking for manual for Panasonic KX-D4930 Message-ID: <5EAE9737C18646E6B64CF224EB99BA34@Daedalus> The Panasonic KX-D4930 is a ?Laptop Data Terminal?, which includes both a (non-backlit) LCD screen and a thermal printer in a laptop-like package. It was obviously intended to supplant the Silent-700, and in fact appears to do so quite nicely. It has an internal modem (Bell 212) as well as a 25-pin EIA connection, and can even be run from an internal 12-volt battery. However, either my Google-fu is exceptionally poor, or there?s truly no copy of its manual available on the Web. I do have the manual for the KX-D20, which is a VT-100 emulation cartridge for the terminal, but not the manual for the base unit itself. Specifically, I?m looking for the (non-VT-100) escape sequences that can control the terminal, if there are any. If anyone has a paper copy of the manual that could be scanned, I?d certainly appreciate it. In an ideal world, there would also be a service manual with schematics, but that?s probably too much to hope for... TIA! ~~ Mark Moulding From frank at tuccio.net Sun Feb 23 16:23:10 2020 From: frank at tuccio.net (Frank Tuccio) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 17:23:10 -0500 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002d01d5ea97$d55e0e50$801a2af0$@tuccio.net> FWIW I have a copy of Version 3.11 from BCPR Services 1990 spec. Contact me off list if you're interested. Frank Tuccio KC2QQN frank at tuccio.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 04:14:37 -0800 From: Al Kossow To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Subject: Re: Looking for Extended Industry Standard Architecture Revision 3.10 Specification Message-ID: <2dcdf609-2997-b458-eb2a-115fec80f6a3 at bitsavers.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 2/22/20 11:45 PM, Ali wrote: > I am surprised that after thirty or so years and many of the original "gang of nine" being gone the standard has not made its way into the wild..... I was as well, which was why I tried digging for it as much as I did Global Engineering's standards search is really bad. I wasn't able to determine if they actually still sell it and I assume BCPR is long gone. End of cctalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 16 ************************************** From spam at hell.org Sun Feb 23 16:48:23 2020 From: spam at hell.org (Mike Begley) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 22:48:23 +0000 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: References: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> Message-ID: >> I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a piece of equipment. [...] > Assuming it's standard 10Base2 Ethernet, you need either a 2 to T adapter, a repeater with BNC > as well as RJ45 connectors, or a repeater with an AUI connector plus a 10Base2 AUI. I just passed on a 10baseT hub with both RJ45s and a BNC connector - I knew I should have grabbed it. However, I did grab a few AUI to 10BaseT converters that I'm probably never going to need - drop me a note if you'd like me to ship one out to you. I'm in the Seattle area, FWIW. I did a lot of work on my 9000/300 back in the day. Now it sits in my closet waiting for me to run NetBSD again... -mike From lproven at gmail.com Mon Feb 24 05:10:55 2020 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 12:10:55 +0100 Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN In-Reply-To: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> References: <3c75ed20-48da-17ea-aecc-c214d8476eaa@charter.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 19:20, Roger Addy via cctech wrote: > > I'm > wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network? Run a single piece of thin Ethernet into the back of an old 10base-T hub. Cable the hub into a modern switch. Job done. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From p.gebhardt at ymail.com Mon Feb 24 09:26:51 2020 From: p.gebhardt at ymail.com (P Gebhardt) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 15:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Classic computers, and peripherals offers in France References: <307866225.12557191.1582558011921.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <307866225.12557191.1582558011921@mail.yahoo.com> Hello list, this might be of interest for list members located in France (Normandie) or close to it: There is seller who offers different types of classic systems. Micros as well as larger systems andwhat appears to be a punched card sorter from the 50s. He writes that he has more stuff and that he can send pictures upon request. Descriptions are in French, but google translate might help out... https://www.leboncoin.fr/recherche/?text=Informatique%20vintage&locations=Bernay_27300__49.10325_0.58486_6186 Cheers, Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de From jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com Mon Feb 24 13:50:35 2020 From: jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 13:50:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: Seeking Zenith Data Systems Z183-92 documentation Message-ID: Good afternoon all; I picked up a ZDS Z183-92 laptop over the weekend alongside a Kodak Diconix 150 portable inkjet printer. The prior owner doesn't think he ever had a power supply for the Z183, although he discovered that it does power up sort-of from the Diconix power supply wallwart(!) The underside of the laptop has "12V" - and nothing else - so my assumption is I need to find a 12V pack of suitable amperage. The Diconix supply is 9VDC. The 9VDC is enough to bring up the LCD and at least some of the internals (presumably the +5v ones) to have it _appear_ to POST, but neither of the disks sound like they're running (either the internal HDD or the 3.5" drive). I presume the internal HDD requires the +12v to spin up, but I haven't dug into it yet. Anywho - if anyone had any documentation on this machine I would very much appreciate a scan. Or just confirmation what the power supply is supposed to be outputting would be very helpful. Thank you! - JP 50441 From echristopherson at gmail.com Mon Feb 24 16:35:10 2020 From: echristopherson at gmail.com (Eric Christopherson) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:35:10 -0600 Subject: Seeking Zenith Data Systems Z183-92 documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 1:50 PM JP Hindin via cctalk wrote: > > Good afternoon all; > > I picked up a ZDS Z183-92 laptop over the weekend alongside a Kodak > Diconix 150 portable inkjet printer. > > The prior owner doesn't think he ever had a power supply for the Z183, > although he discovered that it does power up sort-of from the Diconix > power supply wallwart(!) > > The underside of the laptop has "12V" - and nothing else - so my > assumption is I need to find a 12V pack of suitable amperage. The Diconix > supply is 9VDC. The 9VDC is enough to bring up the LCD and at least some > of the internals (presumably the +5v ones) to have it _appear_ to POST, > but neither of the disks sound like they're running (either the internal > HDD or the 3.5" drive). I presume the internal HDD requires the +12v to > spin up, but I haven't dug into it yet. > > Anywho - if anyone had any documentation on this machine I would very much > appreciate a scan. Or just confirmation what the power supply is supposed > to be outputting would be very helpful. > > Thank you! > > - JP > 50441 > Is that close to a ZWL-183-93? My partner just picked up one of those, and its brick can be described as: Model 150-308 DC 16.5v 2A Center neg -- Eric Christopherson From jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com Mon Feb 24 16:52:54 2020 From: jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:52:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: Seeking Zenith Data Systems Z183-92 documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, Eric Christopherson wrote: > I picked up a ZDS Z183-92 laptop over the weekend alongside a Kodak > Diconix 150 portable inkjet printer. > > Is that close to a ZWL-183-93? My partner just picked up one of those, and its brick can be described as: > > Model 150-308 > DC 16.5v 2A > Center neg I genuinely have no idea, you would certainly think so, wouldn't you? It's definitely centre-negative (given it works on the Diconix supply which is the same). I do actually have several 16.5V supplies from other old laptops, but I'm seriously hesitant to throw something that may be too high into it when it appears to identify itself as "12V" - regardless, it's another data point, thank you very much. I suppose I should open it up and inspect the PCB for any identifying markings, but I'm off to San Diego for work for the next few days and I don't want to take it to bits and not have the time to properly clean it up and put it back together again before I go... the memory isn't good enough to be confident I'll remember how it went together a week later :) Cheers! - JP From spacewar at gmail.com Mon Feb 24 17:58:22 2020 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 16:58:22 -0700 Subject: Parasitic Engineering Altair Clock Fix Kit... In-Reply-To: <8F336A6C-BACB-44E7-B3D4-DFAA00D1E26F@yahoo.com> References: <8F336A6C-BACB-44E7-B3D4-DFAA00D1E26F.ref@yahoo.com> <8F336A6C-BACB-44E7-B3D4-DFAA00D1E26F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 1:37 AM Mike Douglas via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I scanned my Parasitic clock mod documents and put them at the link below. > > https://deramp.com/downloads/altair/hardware/altair_8800_computer/Parasitic%20Clock%20Mod.pdf > Thanks for that! Does anyone have a datasheet for the "94618" dual non-retriggerable monostable that Parasitic used to replace the 74123? At first I thought the P/N was likely to be Fairchild, but I couldn't find either a 94618, nor a dual non-retriggerable with similar pinout from Fairchild. 94618 doesn't show up in the IC Master editiions of that era, either, nor can I find it from any of the usual internet sources. A photo of the chip from the actual Parasitic clock mod might help identify the vendor. The 74221 and 74LS221 are dual non-retriggerable monostables with the same pinout as the 74123/74LS123, but require the reverse capacitor polarity (if using polarized capacitors), and require different RC values than the 74LS123. With appropriate RC values it might make a suitable clock fix if the 94618 can't be found. It's possible that it might use the same RC values as the 94618, but without the datasheet for the 94618 it's hard to tell. Parasitic mentioned that the 94618 has temperature -compensation and schmitt trigger inputs, and the 74221/74S221 do have both of those features. The 74LS221 doesn't have as much input hysteresis for the schmitt trigger inputs, so the 74221 might be preferred. From hills.barry at gmail.com Mon Feb 24 23:09:11 2020 From: hills.barry at gmail.com (Barry Hills) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 21:09:11 -0800 Subject: Bendix G15 Drum Message-ID: Does anyone have an idea as to the value of a Bendix G15 Drum? Its time to pass mine to another caring collector who would appreciate it but I am not sure how of its value. Obviously it is rare but the market demand is unclear to me. thank you From jwsmail at jwsss.com Tue Feb 25 04:39:09 2020 From: jwsmail at jwsss.com (jim stephens) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 02:39:09 -0800 Subject: Bendix G15 Drum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06c532c3-b17e-d948-ec57-dfdfbc3e1bbe@jwsss.com> I'd value something like a DEC head / track "drum" more than this. That said, those are going for maybe 750 or so.? If Jack Ruben is still watching, he sold one, may recall the value. If you don't find some historical reason for this item for the machine's value or notoriety it will probably come in no more than what the branded, semi useful DEC or other such drum would.? The DEC ones are typically not useful, but may have useful circuitry and is somewhat more valueable. I've got both a drum and a head / track myself, and would have to research this issue myself. If a museum has one of the machines, then they may be able or interested in paying for the article as well. Thanks Jim On 2/24/2020 9:09 PM, Barry Hills via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have an idea as to the value of a Bendix G15 Drum? Its time to pass mine to another caring collector who would appreciate it but I am not sure how of its value. Obviously it is rare but the market demand is unclear to me. > > thank you > From aek at bitsavers.org Tue Feb 25 09:24:41 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 07:24:41 -0800 Subject: Bendix G15 Drum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <351c4c93-22d3-538a-b35b-8a433be47fbf@bitsavers.org> Will Donzelli has a G15 in need of a drum On 2/24/20 9:09 PM, Barry Hills via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have an idea as to the value of a Bendix G15 Drum? Its time to pass mine to another caring collector who would appreciate it but I am not sure how of its value. Obviously it is rare but the market demand is unclear to me. > > thank you > From aperry at snowmoose.com Tue Feb 25 10:20:44 2020 From: aperry at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 08:20:44 -0800 Subject: Buying external SMD cables for Sun gear Message-ID: <43384833-1675-4FBD-9A4B-55B6D6E326A8@snowmoose.com> ? As previously discussed here, I have a Sun 3/260 that connects to a Sun external storage subsystem containing two 8? SMD drives. The external cabling is a 0.7m D-sub 25-pin (male both ends) data cable for each drive and a paired set of 0.7m D-sub 25- and 37-pin (male both ends) command cables. These cables are straight through connections between internal ribbon cables from the drives (CDC 9720-368 and Fujitsu M2372) to the controller board (Xylogics 451 on a VME adapter). For reasons described below, I have been unable to buy the original Sun cables. Should off-the-shelf D-sub 25- and 37-pin cables work? I guess electrical shielding/noise could be a concern? As to why I am looking for alternatives, MemoryX has been my source for this kind of stuff, but they have lost my trust. I ordered a full set of cables from them on 2 Jan and they have gone silent responding to my queries on that order. Then this month they were selling a couple sets of the control cables on eBay. I bought the second set. They marked it shipped, left positive comments about the transaction on eBay, but the cable set didn?t arrive as scheduled last Friday and yesterday they cancelled the eBay auction and refunded what I paid, all without any explanation. They still list the cables on their website, each $100 more than what they were when I ordered them on 2 Jan. alan From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Tue Feb 25 10:31:48 2020 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 16:31:48 +0000 Subject: Buying external SMD cables for Sun gear In-Reply-To: <43384833-1675-4FBD-9A4B-55B6D6E326A8@snowmoose.com> References: <43384833-1675-4FBD-9A4B-55B6D6E326A8@snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:20 PM Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > > As previously discussed here, I have a Sun 3/260 that connects to a Sun external storage subsystem containing two 8? SMD drives. The external cabling is a 0.7m D-sub 25-pin (male both ends) data cable for each drive and a paired set of 0.7m D-sub 25- and 37-pin (male both ends) command cables. These cables are straight through connections between internal ribbon cables from the drives (CDC 9720-368 and Fujitsu M2372) to the controller board (Xylogics 451 on a VME adapter). > > For reasons described below, I have been unable to buy the original Sun cables. Should off-the-shelf D-sub 25- and 37-pin cables work? I guess electrical shielding/noise could be a concern? A lot of SMD cabling was that twist-n-flat ribbon cable, the twisted pair stuff with flat sections to crimp IDC connectors onto. My guess is that provided to arrange it so that the external cable twisted pairs match up with the internal cable ones (or if the internal cables are just plain ribbon cable, so that each twisted pair carries a signal and its inverse (if you see what I mean) then it will work fine with such cables. I wouldn't try to use commercial DB25 and DC37 'round' cables as there's no knowing what is going on inside the cable. But if you can get some multiple twisted pair cable you could solder it to the right connectors (again making sure a signal and its inverse end up on a twisted pair). More work than the twist-n-flat cable though. -tony From elson at pico-systems.com Tue Feb 25 11:12:50 2020 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 11:12:50 -0600 Subject: Bendix G15 Drum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E555592.9040600@pico-systems.com> On 02/24/2020 11:09 PM, Barry Hills via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have an idea as to the value of a Bendix G15 Drum? Its time to pass mine to another caring collector who would appreciate it but I am not sure how of its value. Obviously it is rare but the market demand is unclear to me. > > Well, without the rest of the machine, it is just an ornament. I know there are some people who are still trying to find G-15s that could be rebuilt. Jon From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Feb 25 13:34:23 2020 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:34:23 -0700 Subject: Bendix G15 Drum In-Reply-To: <5E555592.9040600@pico-systems.com> References: <5E555592.9040600@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: On 2/25/2020 10:12 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 02/24/2020 11:09 PM, Barry Hills via cctalk wrote: >> Does anyone have an idea as to the value of a Bendix G15 Drum?? Its >> time to pass mine to another caring collector who would appreciate it >> but I am not sure how of its value.? Obviously it is rare but the >> market demand is unclear to me. >> >> > Well, without the rest of the machine, it is just an ornament.? I know > there are some people who are still trying to find G-15s that could be > rebuilt. > > Jon I would say the reverse, the machine is the DRUM with added glowing parts. :) I suspect a good spare drum would be hard to find. Old Iron Price can wierd, you can't buy it for love of money and the next day its hiding in dumptser. Ben. From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Feb 26 13:43:59 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 11:43:59 -0800 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento Message-ID: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-Model-4054A-ALL-IN-ONE-Microcomputer-Vintage/372966927909 good price, it's BIG though.. From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Wed Feb 26 13:56:30 2020 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:56:30 +0100 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> References: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <56ff47e2-5f89-3baa-21f3-dabca424b321@greenmail.ch> On 26.02.20 20:43, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-Model-4054A-ALL-IN-ONE-Microcomputer-Vintage/372966927909 > > good price, it's BIG though.. > Would have loved to pick that up.... Did I mention on this list that i remade (and sell... )? the Tektronix Field service Diagnostic Rom Pack ? This will greatly enhance (digital-) fault finding in 4052/4054 machines. Jos From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Wed Feb 26 13:58:52 2020 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:58:52 +0100 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> References: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <4e171af8-c4f6-40b4-bd11-f9c9114b50d1@greenmail.ch> On 26.02.20 20:43, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-Model-4054A-ALL-IN-ONE-Microcomputer-Vintage/372966927909 > > good price, it's BIG though.. > Would have loved to pick that up.... Did I mention on this list that i remade (and sell... )? the Tektronix Field service Diagnostic Rom Pack ? This will greatly enhance (digital-) fault finding in 4052/4054 machines. See ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/TEK_DRP/DiagPack_Manual.pdf Jos From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Feb 26 15:47:25 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 13:47:25 -0800 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: <56ff47e2-5f89-3baa-21f3-dabca424b321@greenmail.ch> References: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> <56ff47e2-5f89-3baa-21f3-dabca424b321@greenmail.ch> Message-ID: <32e96714-36dd-47e1-424f-78d2ba47b74e@bitsavers.org> On 2/26/20 11:56 AM, jos via cctalk wrote: > On 26.02.20 20:43, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-Model-4054A-ALL-IN-ONE-Microcomputer-Vintage/372966927909 >> >> good price, it's BIG though.. >> > Would have loved to pick that up.... I wonder who got it? From bobalan at sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 26 15:57:24 2020 From: bobalan at sbcglobal.net (Bob Rosenbloom) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 13:57:24 -0800 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: <32e96714-36dd-47e1-424f-78d2ba47b74e@bitsavers.org> References: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> <56ff47e2-5f89-3baa-21f3-dabca424b321@greenmail.ch> <32e96714-36dd-47e1-424f-78d2ba47b74e@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On 2/26/2020 1:47 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 2/26/20 11:56 AM, jos via cctalk wrote: >> On 26.02.20 20:43, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-Model-4054A-ALL-IN-ONE-Microcomputer-Vintage/372966927909 >>> >>> good price, it's BIG though.. >>> >> Would have loved to pick that up.... > I wonder who got it? > > I got it. It has the color enhanced dynamic graphics option. Green phosphor for the stored image and orange/red for the write-through graphics. I have a parts unit with the special CRT but it's missing many boards. I hope I can get this one running. Bob -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org From linimon at lonesome.com Wed Feb 26 17:38:35 2020 From: linimon at lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 23:38:35 +0000 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: References: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> <56ff47e2-5f89-3baa-21f3-dabca424b321@greenmail.ch> <32e96714-36dd-47e1-424f-78d2ba47b74e@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <20200226233834.GA22189@lonesome.com> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 01:57:24PM -0800, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: > I hope I can get this one running. Good find! Good luck! mcl From linimon at lonesome.com Wed Feb 26 17:51:03 2020 From: linimon at lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 23:51:03 +0000 Subject: Bendix G15 Drum In-Reply-To: <5E555592.9040600@pico-systems.com> References: <5E555592.9040600@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <20200226235103.GC22189@lonesome.com> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:12:50AM -0600, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > Well, without the rest of the machine, it is just an ornament. ITYM "boat anchor" :-) It's pretty heavy for an "ornament". (Not that I have ever fiddled with one outside a machine.) > I know there are some people who are still trying to find G-15s that > could be rebuilt. My website about such things is currently down (too many things to fix around here right now) but let folks know that I'm trying to collect information about such projects. The Wayback Machine probably has the most recent version of my site http://obscurecomputers.org anyway. mcl From trash80 at internode.on.net Wed Feb 26 18:27:01 2020 From: trash80 at internode.on.net (Kevin Parker) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 00:27:01 +0000 Subject: Old tape data retrieval Message-ID: (Just reposting this as it did not appear to appear on the list - there was about a two week period when I didn't see any CCMP emails for some reason - apologies if it has already appeared for others). I apologize if this is OT but I'm hoping someone on the list can help me fill a gap in my knowledge. Quick back story - in 1995 my wife and I published a book on her family history. For anyone interested in genealogy, details are here https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2416803 I think we may have done the whole job end-to-end on a 486 before sending a file to the book printers (we published 500 copies) but my memory is vague on that point. Of course the last job I did on the book I backed up the whole thing (database files, image files, record and document scans etc) to a DC2120 tape. I've even found the tape: http://koken.advancedimaging.com.au/index.php?/albums/interesting-finds/content/20200202-160623/ The wife says that its time for an update to the book so that means drop all other projects and see if you can get it back off the tape (with an implied now). I know that I used a software app called ResQ120 to run the tape drive. I can't find it (or any info) on-line other than the software came from Alloy but I suspect I have it here somewhere on a floppy disk so its only matter of time before I find that assuming the disk is still readable. Of course over time I have acquired other tape drives from various salvage/rescue sources but I believe this is the one I used: http://koken.advancedimaging.com.au/index.php?/albums/interesting-finds/content/20200202-160540/ What I'm missing is this - I recall that despite the PC having a floppy controller I added a separate floppy (or similar or other) controller (card) for the tape drive (it might have even run on the same interrupt - I can't remember). As with most stuff, being a prolific rescuer I have acquired many ISA based cards over the years that appear to be floppy controllers but I have no idea what I'm looking for to run this tape drive. Any clues, info etc would greatly appreciated because I don't want to have to tell her that it can't be done and you wouldn't want to be around if she had to hear that :-) Thank you!! Kevin Parker From mmcgraw74 at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 19:49:50 2020 From: mmcgraw74 at gmail.com (Monty McGraw) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:49:50 -0600 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: <20200226233834.GA22189@lonesome.com> References: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> <56ff47e2-5f89-3baa-21f3-dabca424b321@greenmail.ch> <32e96714-36dd-47e1-424f-78d2ba47b74e@bitsavers.org> <20200226233834.GA22189@lonesome.com> Message-ID: Bob, I had my 4054A display stop erasing when you press PAGE key or BASIC PAGE command. I found the 4054 Parts and Schematics Service Manual on bitsavers.org at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tektronix/405x/4052_4054/070-2839-00_4054_Service_Schematics_Feb80.pdf I've narrowed my issue using that manual to a 74123 one-shot multivibrator that creates a short delay for the erase to complete. I've got a 74123 IC ordered and should get it this week. When I upgraded my 4054 to 4054A with an F39 option kit - the MAS board and the IO Board were both upgraded. Those schematics aren't in the 4054 service manual. Then I remembered my list of your documents at Living Computer Museum - and there was an 4054A Update to the 4054 Parts and Schematics. I've asked the Museum to scan the manual update and I'll post the scan - so it can be saved on bitsavers.org too. BTW - I plan to exhibit my 4054A with the 4907 floppy drive system at VCF Pacific Northwest Festival at Living Computers Museum on March 21 and 22. Monty On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 5:38 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 01:57:24PM -0800, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: > > I hope I can get this one running. > > Good find! Good luck! > > mcl > From mmcgraw74 at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 19:58:59 2020 From: mmcgraw74 at gmail.com (Monty McGraw) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:58:59 -0600 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: References: <94c9395f-4259-3585-34bf-9f00f5bc67aa@bitsavers.org> <56ff47e2-5f89-3baa-21f3-dabca424b321@greenmail.ch> <32e96714-36dd-47e1-424f-78d2ba47b74e@bitsavers.org> <20200226233834.GA22189@lonesome.com> Message-ID: Bob, I noticed in the last photo in the 4054A EBAY auction the 4054 was on top of a 4907 with dual eight inch floppy drives. I checked and didn't see that 4907 being auctioned off. Monty On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 7:49 PM Monty McGraw wrote: > Bob, > > I had my 4054A display stop erasing when you press PAGE key or BASIC PAGE > command. > > I found the 4054 Parts and Schematics Service Manual on bitsavers.org at > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tektronix/405x/4052_4054/070-2839-00_4054_Service_Schematics_Feb80.pdf > > I've narrowed my issue using that manual to a 74123 one-shot multivibrator > that creates a short delay for the erase to complete. I've got a 74123 IC > ordered and should get it this week. > > When I upgraded my 4054 to 4054A with an F39 option kit - the MAS board > and the IO Board were both upgraded. Those schematics aren't in the 4054 > service manual. > > Then I remembered my list of your documents at Living Computer Museum - > and there was an 4054A Update to the 4054 Parts and Schematics. > I've asked the Museum to scan the manual update and I'll post the scan - > so it can be saved on bitsavers.org too. > > BTW - I plan to exhibit my 4054A with the 4907 floppy drive system at VCF > Pacific Northwest Festival at Living Computers Museum on March 21 and 22. > > Monty > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 5:38 PM Mark Linimon via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 01:57:24PM -0800, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: >> > I hope I can get this one running. >> >> Good find! Good luck! >> >> mcl >> > From curiousmarc3 at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 20:34:31 2020 From: curiousmarc3 at gmail.com (Curious Marc) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 18:34:31 -0800 Subject: 4054 in Sacramento In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7619007C-8A34-487F-B689-A0F87B8653A2@gmail.com> Congrats! Marc > On Feb 26, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: > > ?On 2/26/2020 1:47 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >> >>> On 2/26/20 11:56 AM, jos via cctalk wrote: >>> On 26.02.20 20:43, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-Model-4054A-ALL-IN-ONE-Microcomputer-Vintage/372966927909 >>>> >>>> good price, it's BIG though.. >>>> >>> Would have loved to pick that up.... >> I wonder who got it? >> >> > I got it. It has the color enhanced dynamic graphics option. Green phosphor for the stored image and orange/red for the > write-through graphics. I have a parts unit with the special CRT but it's missing many boards. I hope I can get this one > running. > > Bob > > -- > Vintage computers and electronics > www.dvq.com > www.tekmuseum.com > www.decmuseum.org > From cclist at sydex.com Wed Feb 26 20:49:24 2020 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 18:49:24 -0800 Subject: Old tape data retrieval In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hoo boy. I'll throw my experience in and see if you can avoid nausea... First of all, you don't need a special controller to run most floppytape drives, nor do you need to give up a floppy drive to use them--they don't use the usual drive/motor select control for access. It's perfectly permissible to have 2 floppy drives and a tape drive on the same cable. While there were special "double-speed" controllers, such as the Colorado FC-20, they're not necessary for functioning--they just increase the data transfer rate. Second, be prepared to set up a legacy system with the OS that you used back in the day. I think that NT 4.0 and maybe 2K still retained floppytape support, but I don't believe that it went further than that. If you used Windows 95 to do your backups, use that. Third, tape backup software tends to be unique to the generation of tape drive and operating system. For example Colorado backup for DOS chokes on Colorado backup for Windows 95 tapes. So locating a copy of ResQ may be to your great advantage. If you can't find a copy, it may be possible to read the tape in "raw" mode using an old version of NetBSD or even old Debian using the ftape driver. You'll have to recompile the kernel to incorporate the driver code, but then you'll have access to the tape contents using the usual Unix tape commands (mt, dd, etc.) The good news is that almost every floppytape that I've seen uses 512 byte blocks. All this assumes that various bits haven't turned to goo or gone slack (e.g. tape drive capstans, cartridge tension belts, etc.). Good luck! --Chuck On 2/26/20 4:27 PM, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote: > What I'm missing is this - I recall that despite the PC having a floppy > controller I added a separate floppy (or similar or other) controller > (card) for the tape drive (it might have even run on the same interrupt > - I can't remember). As with most stuff, being a prolific rescuer I have > acquired many ISA based cards over the years that appear to be floppy > controllers but I have no idea what I'm looking for to run this tape drive. > > Any clues, info etc would greatly appreciated because I don't want to > have to tell her that it can't be done and you wouldn't want to be > around if she had to hear that :-) From barry at csguy.org Wed Feb 26 13:18:24 2020 From: barry at csguy.org (Barry Hills) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 11:18:24 -0800 Subject: G15 Drum Followup References: Message-ID: <50C9F35D-7120-4E5F-9456-A9B03E1A8785@csguy.org> ?Thanks for all the replies to my original post. I sold the heads separately along with a set of replacement cards and the remote display for $400. From It?s operational days I know one of my drum?s long channels (not a register) is bad. The coating ?looks? ok but it?s been exposed (indoors) for decades with ample touching etc but there are no dents or scratches other than the bad channel. As some have said it ?seems? like a durable coating but I have no idea if it would work. I read somewhere there are 2 timing tracks put down at the factory. I have my doubts about this info (I thought the timing circuit laid down the reference tracks in the final stage of power up) but if true I would not expect my drum to work. I have the drum connected to a small motor and belt to spin it (slowly) for demo purposes. Anybody know what non-magnetic metal forms the drum? Stainless? Nickel? Cheers Barry original post: > Does anyone have an idea as to the value of a Bendix G15 Drum? Its time to pass mine to another caring collector who would appreciate it but I am not sure how of its value. Obviously it is rare but the market demand is unclear to me. From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Thu Feb 27 02:50:43 2020 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 09:50:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: G15 Drum Followup In-Reply-To: <50C9F35D-7120-4E5F-9456-A9B03E1A8785@csguy.org> References: <50C9F35D-7120-4E5F-9456-A9B03E1A8785@csguy.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, Barry Hills wrote: > I sold the heads separately along with a set of replacement cards and > the remote display for $400. You did what??? Did you really "ruin" an apparently intact drum instead of keeping it complete as one piece? > Anybody know what non-magnetic metal forms the drum? Stainless? Nickel? Most probably aluminium. Christian From lproven at gmail.com Thu Feb 27 07:11:15 2020 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:11:15 +0100 Subject: Old tape data retrieval In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 at 03:49, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Hoo boy. I'll throw my experience in and see if you can avoid nausea... > > First of all, you don't need a special controller to run most floppytape > drives, nor do you need to give up a floppy drive to use them--they > don't use the usual drive/motor select control for access. It's > perfectly permissible to have 2 floppy drives and a tape drive on the > same cable. I didn't know that last trinket of wisdom, but agreed to the rest. > While there were special "double-speed" controllers, such > as the Colorado FC-20, they're not necessary for functioning--they just > increase the data transfer rate. Seconded. > Second, be prepared to set up a legacy system with the OS that you used > back in the day. I think that NT 4.0 and maybe 2K still retained > floppytape support, but I don't believe that it went further than that. > If you used Windows 95 to do your backups, use that. Agreed. > Third, tape backup software tends to be unique to the generation of tape > drive and operating system. Agreed. > For example Colorado backup for DOS chokes > on Colorado backup for Windows 95 tapes. So locating a copy of ResQ may > be to your great advantage. Strongly seconded on that last bit. > If you can't find a copy, it may be possible to read the tape in "raw" > mode using an old version of NetBSD or even old Debian using the ftape > driver. You'll have to recompile the kernel to incorporate the driver > code, but then you'll have access to the tape contents using the usual > Unix tape commands (mt, dd, etc.) The good news is that almost every > floppytape that I've seen uses 512 byte blocks. > > All this assumes that various bits haven't turned to goo or gone slack > (e.g. tape drive capstans, cartridge tension belts, etc.). Kevin, where in the world are you? I have a Colorado parallel-port drive and install floppies and CDs for Win9x and NT. I could be induced to part with them, _pace_ Chuck's wise and insightful comments. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Feb 27 11:56:00 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 09:56:00 -0800 Subject: G15 Drum Followup In-Reply-To: References: <50C9F35D-7120-4E5F-9456-A9B03E1A8785@csguy.org> Message-ID: <6c5cd04b-cfdf-94d8-7716-a4a219a73c57@bitsavers.org> that is really sad I hope you sold them to Will On 2/27/20 12:50 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, Barry Hills wrote: >> I sold the heads separately along with a set of replacement cards and the remote display for $400. > > You did what??? > Did you really "ruin" an apparently intact drum instead of keeping it complete as one piece? > >> Anybody know what non-magnetic metal forms the drum?? Stainless?? Nickel? > > Most probably aluminium. > > Christian From billdegnan at gmail.com Thu Feb 27 14:09:48 2020 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 15:09:48 -0500 Subject: (Free?) teletype model 32 in cincinatti Message-ID: ANyone interested in a kind of beat up but complete model 32, and you're in cincinnati to get it today or this weekend let me know by sending me a message through my web site https://www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm This is the fairest way, it takes the requests with a timestamp. I will forward your info to the donor immediately, in order of receipt. He can send photos if you need them. On a scale of one to 10 it's in "4-7" condition depending on your taste. Has a built in phone and reader. (baudout) You must be able to physically go to this guy and pick it up this weekend. Bill From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Feb 27 14:39:47 2020 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 13:39:47 -0700 Subject: G15 Drum Followup In-Reply-To: <6c5cd04b-cfdf-94d8-7716-a4a219a73c57@bitsavers.org> References: <50C9F35D-7120-4E5F-9456-A9B03E1A8785@csguy.org> <6c5cd04b-cfdf-94d8-7716-a4a219a73c57@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On 2/27/2020 10:56 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > that is really sad > I hope you sold them to Will Why sad? Everybody had chance to say more, or ask to buy the whole drum. Just what is the buy/sell policy on the list? Ben. From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Feb 27 15:43:06 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 16:43:06 -0500 Subject: G15 Drum Followup In-Reply-To: References: <50C9F35D-7120-4E5F-9456-A9B03E1A8785@csguy.org> <6c5cd04b-cfdf-94d8-7716-a4a219a73c57@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <2624DAE1-C0FF-4888-A6BB-3C7F66E34F3C@comcast.net> > On Feb 27, 2020, at 3:39 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: > > On 2/27/2020 10:56 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >> that is really sad >> I hope you sold them to Will > Why sad? Everybody had chance to say more, or ask to buy the whole drum. > Just what is the buy/sell policy on the list? Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything that indicated you were planning to break the drum into useless bits and sell those. People on this list are interested in working machines, so when we see mention of a device offered for sale, we tend to assume that it's the whole thing. paul From athornton at gmail.com Thu Feb 27 17:37:20 2020 From: athornton at gmail.com (Adam Thornton) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 16:37:20 -0700 Subject: 52-pin D-Sub? Message-ID: I work at an astronomy facility. I get to do some fun dumpster diving. I recently have pulled out of the trash a plugboard with a male and a female D-Sub 52 connector. 3 rows of pins, 17-18-17. I took the connectors off the board: there's nothing back there, so this thing only ever existed so you could plug the random cable you found into it and its friends to see what the cable fit. I can't find much evidence that a 52-pin D-Sub ever existed. Is this just Yet Another Physics Experiment thing where, hey, if your instrument already costs three million dollars, what's a couple of grand for machining custom connectors? Or was it once a thing? (also posted to COFF) Adam From nw.johnson at ieee.org Thu Feb 27 18:20:47 2020 From: nw.johnson at ieee.org (Nigel Johnson) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:20:47 -0500 Subject: 52-pin D-Sub? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If your reference to D-sub means the connectors originally made by ITT-Cannon, I can offer the following from a cutout from a trade catalog that I have carried around these last 30 years as ammunition against those who erroneously use the term DB-9! I wasn't sure, so I had to find it and can confirm that there was no 'standard' D-sub of 52 pins in 3 rows.? The ones available were: DA15, DB25, DC37, and DD50, that latter of which had 50 pins in three rows. There was of course the famously mis-labelled DE9. Could you have mis-counted the pins? cheers, Nigel On 27/02/2020 18:37, Adam Thornton via cctalk wrote: > I work at an astronomy facility. I get to do some fun dumpster diving. > > I recently have pulled out of the trash a plugboard with a male and a > female D-Sub 52 connector. 3 rows of pins, 17-18-17. I took the > connectors off the board: there's nothing back there, so this thing only > ever existed so you could plug the random cable you found into it and its > friends to see what the cable fit. > > I can't find much evidence that a 52-pin D-Sub ever existed. > > Is this just Yet Another Physics Experiment thing where, hey, if your > instrument already costs three million dollars, what's a couple of grand > for machining custom connectors? Or was it once a thing? > > (also posted to COFF) > > Adam -- Nigel Johnson MSc., MIEEE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591 If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. Nigel Johnson Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Feb 27 18:27:53 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:27:53 -0500 Subject: 52-pin D-Sub? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66F0C96A-A57C-4486-9177-77ACC93F30E3@comcast.net> > On Feb 27, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Adam Thornton via cctalk wrote: > > I work at an astronomy facility. I get to do some fun dumpster diving. > > I recently have pulled out of the trash a plugboard with a male and a > female D-Sub 52 connector. 3 rows of pins, 17-18-17. I took the > connectors off the board: there's nothing back there, so this thing only > ever existed so you could plug the random cable you found into it and its > friends to see what the cable fit. > > I can't find much evidence that a 52-pin D-Sub ever existed. > > Is this just Yet Another Physics Experiment thing where, hey, if your > instrument already costs three million dollars, what's a couple of grand > for machining custom connectors? Or was it once a thing? No idea. I just got a new L-Com catalog, which has a large section of "D-Sub" connectors and cables. It lists the following sizes: 2-row: 9, 15, 25, 37, 50 pin 3-row: 15, 26, 44, 62, 78 pin So 52 pins is halfway between two standard sizes. For some definition of "standard", of course. 2-row 9, 15, and 25 pin are common, 37 is for RS-422 if I remember right but I haven't seen it in ages. The only familiar "high density" (3-row) connector is the 15 pin one for VGA. Those connectors correspond to the standard D-sub shells DE, DA, DB, DC, and DD in that order -- as many people here know, the common 9-pin serial connector is not actually a "DB-9" connector but rather a DE-9. Is the connector a DC shell with pin spacing increased from the standard 62 pin pitch? Or is it a DC-62 with some positions left unused? A picture would be interesting. paul From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Feb 27 18:41:06 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:41:06 -0500 Subject: 52-pin D-Sub? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7EB3C64E-5DB8-4772-9BB4-EE99D89165F1@comcast.net> > On Feb 27, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote: > > If your reference to D-sub means the connectors originally made by ITT-Cannon, I can offer the following from a cutout from a trade catalog that I have carried around these last 30 years as ammunition against those who erroneously use the term DB-9! > > I wasn't sure, so I had to find it and can confirm that there was no 'standard' D-sub of 52 pins in 3 rows. The ones available were: > > DA15, DB25, DC37, and DD50, that latter of which had 50 pins in three rows. There was of course the famously mis-labelled DE9. I didn't realize DD50 isn't two rows. Interesting. Ok, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature has more. Apparently there are three flavors: normal density (2 rows except for DD), high density (3 rows except for DD which has four) and "double density" -- like high density but with more pins in each row. And the table shows Adam's connector, a DB-52 in the double density series. paul From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 27 18:51:27 2020 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 16:51:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: 52-pin D-Sub? In-Reply-To: <66F0C96A-A57C-4486-9177-77ACC93F30E3@comcast.net> References: <66F0C96A-A57C-4486-9177-77ACC93F30E3@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2020, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > No idea. I just got a new L-Com catalog, which has a large section of "D-Sub" connectors and cables. It lists the following sizes: > 2-row: 9, 15, 25, 37, 50 pin > 3-row: 15, 26, 44, 62, 78 pin > So 52 pins is halfway between two standard sizes. For some definition > of "standard", of course. 2-row 9, 15, and 25 pin are common, 37 is for > RS-422 if I remember right but I haven't seen it in ages. A trivial data point: DC-37 was used by PC (5150), XT (5160) for external floppy drive, Used a lot of those, especially for tape drives and infrequently used drives, such as 3.25" and 3", 720K 5.25", 100tpi 5.25", 67.5 tpi 3.5", etc. also used even by IBM on some add-on external floppies for some PS/2s. DC-37 was also on the externally-controlled Canon CX printer engines, so I had some cables and even switchboxes for those. (Cordata/CoronaDataSystems, Eiconscript (both HP and Postscript emulation!), JLaser, etc.) Anybody have any interest in those? The Amiga used a couple of D23 connectors. I cut up some DB25s when I needed them. > -- as many people here know, the common 9-pin > serial connector is not actually a "DB-9" connector but rather a DE-9. When I had a lot of DB25 cables on hand, I had a few that only had pins in place in positions 1-8 and 20. Would those 9 pins make it a "DB-9"? :-) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From wdonzelli at gmail.com Thu Feb 27 19:16:58 2020 From: wdonzelli at gmail.com (William Donzelli) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:16:58 -0500 Subject: G15 Drum Followup In-Reply-To: References: <50C9F35D-7120-4E5F-9456-A9B03E1A8785@csguy.org> <6c5cd04b-cfdf-94d8-7716-a4a219a73c57@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: > > that is really sad > > I hope you sold them to Will > Why sad? Everybody had chance to say more, or ask to buy the whole drum. I never heard back from the guy. Yes, I could have used some heads, as I think I have one or two that are open. The search continues... -- Will From wrcooke at wrcooke.net Thu Feb 27 19:20:06 2020 From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net (wrcooke at wrcooke.net) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:20:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: Anyone heard of the S1 Operating System Message-ID: <864703037.143807.1582852806783@email.ionos.com> Reading through the April 85 issue of Byte, I came across a reference to the "S1 Operating System." In Jerry Pournelle's column on pg 361 he talks about this mysterious OS. Here is a small excerpt: Robert Knight. formerly of Princeton's computer laboratories. is an old fan of my books and columns as well as the creator of SI. which he had running on an IBM Instruments CS9000 Anyway, my Googling turned up nothing on the OS, although I did find a Robert Knight at Princeton, but no information on stuff he's done. I will likely email him to ask about it, but wanted to ask here first if anyone knows anything about it. Thanks, Will From nw.johnson at ieee.org Thu Feb 27 19:26:04 2020 From: nw.johnson at ieee.org (Nigel Johnson) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:26:04 -0500 Subject: 52-pin D-Sub? In-Reply-To: References: <66F0C96A-A57C-4486-9177-77ACC93F30E3@comcast.net> Message-ID: More in the trivia department, the DA15 was used for AUI interconnection in the 10base-5, -2, and early -T days, as well as analog joysticks. I'm surprised to see wikipedia saying that the high-density ones had DA to DE designations, I have only seen them in catalogs with full part numbers.? Could this be a backronym-style regression? cheers, Nigel On 27/02/2020 19:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 2020, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> No idea.? I just got a new L-Com catalog, which has a large section >> of "D-Sub" connectors and cables.? It lists the following sizes: >> 2-row: 9, 15, 25, 37, 50 pin >> 3-row: 15, 26, 44, 62, 78 pin >> So 52 pins is halfway between two standard sizes.? For some >> definition of "standard", of course.? 2-row 9, 15, and 25 pin are >> common, 37 is for RS-422 if I remember right but I haven't seen it in >> ages. > > A trivial data point: > DC-37 was used by PC (5150), XT (5160) for external floppy drive, > Used a lot of those, especially for tape drives and infrequently used > drives, such as 3.25" and 3", 720K 5.25", 100tpi 5.25", 67.5 tpi 3.5", > etc. > also used even by IBM on some add-on external floppies for some PS/2s. > > DC-37 was also on the externally-controlled Canon CX printer engines, > so I had some cables and even switchboxes for those. > (Cordata/CoronaDataSystems, Eiconscript (both HP and Postscript > emulation!), JLaser, etc.) > Anybody have any interest in those? > > > The Amiga used a couple of D23 connectors.? I cut up some DB25s when I > needed them. > > >> ?-- as many people here know, the common 9-pin serial connector is >> not actually a "DB-9" connector but rather a DE-9. > > When I had a lot of DB25 cables on hand, I had a few that only had > pins in place in positions 1-8 and 20.? Would those 9 pins make it a > "DB-9"?? :-) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred???????????? cisin at xenosoft.com -- Nigel Johnson MSc., MIEEE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591 If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. Nigel Johnson Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Fri Feb 28 02:51:28 2020 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:51:28 +0100 (CET) Subject: Anyone heard of the S1 Operating System In-Reply-To: <864703037.143807.1582852806783@email.ionos.com> References: <864703037.143807.1582852806783@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2020, wrcooke at wrcooke.net wrote: > Reading through the April 85 issue of Byte, I came across a reference to the "S1 Operating System." In Jerry Pournelle's column on pg 361 he talks about this mysterious OS. Here is a small excerpt: > Robert Knight. formerly of > Princeton's computer laboratories. is > an old fan of my books and columns > as well as the creator of SI. which he > had running on an IBM Instruments > CS9000 > > Anyway, my Googling turned up nothing on the OS, although I did find a > Robert Knight at Princeton, but no information on stuff he's done. I > will likely email him to ask about it, but wanted to ask here first if > anyone knows anything about it. It seems that I have a full set of floppies for the CS/9000, like "CS9000 REAL-TIME EXECUTIVE OPERATING SYSTEM VERSION 1.1", FORTRAN, BASIC, Assembler, Demos, Full Screen Editor. Christian From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Feb 28 08:19:07 2020 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:19:07 -0500 Subject: 52-pin D-Sub? In-Reply-To: References: <66F0C96A-A57C-4486-9177-77ACC93F30E3@comcast.net> Message-ID: <676ADDB9-E583-4BF4-A49F-4FD788AD851E@comcast.net> > On Feb 27, 2020, at 8:26 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote: > > More in the trivia department, the DA15 was used for AUI interconnection in the 10base-5, -2, and early -T days, as well as analog joysticks. > > I'm surprised to see wikipedia saying that the high-density ones had DA to DE designations, I have only seen them in catalogs with full part numbers. Could this be a backronym-style regression? DA through DE designates the shape of the connector shell, so this makes sense. As the article mentions, D-sub shells were also used for mixed pin inserts, such as the pin plus coax combinations used in early workstation monitor connectors. Same story: standard shell, different pin insert within that shell. paul From pschow at gmail.com Fri Feb 28 14:04:03 2020 From: pschow at gmail.com (Peter Schow) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 13:04:03 -0700 Subject: Anyone heard of the S1 Operating System In-Reply-To: <864703037.143807.1582852806783@email.ionos.com> References: <864703037.143807.1582852806783@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:20 PM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > Reading through the April 85 issue of Byte, I came across a reference to the "S1 Operating System." In Jerry Pournelle's column on pg 361 he talks about this mysterious OS. You can find mentionings of 32-bit capable S1 in trade publications (Computerworld, Datamation, etc.) in the mid-80s timeframe, and there is an S1 button on eBay right now with the words "multi user, multi nodal, multi tasking, multi processing". In a quick scan, I saw announcements of some S1 OEM agreements, including Phillips Medical. It was a product of Multi Solutions, a startup out of Lawrenceville, NJ, so you'd sort of assume that some Bell Labs talent was on staff. S1 was trademarked in 1986, it expired in 1993. From raywjewhurst at gmail.com Fri Feb 28 14:54:44 2020 From: raywjewhurst at gmail.com (Ray Jewhurst) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:54:44 -0500 Subject: Anyone heard of the S1 Operating System In-Reply-To: References: <864703037.143807.1582852806783@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know what processor S1 was for? Ray On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 3:04 PM Peter Schow via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:20 PM Will Cooke via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > Reading through the April 85 issue of Byte, I came across a reference to > the "S1 Operating System." In Jerry Pournelle's column on pg 361 he talks > about this mysterious OS. > > You can find mentionings of 32-bit capable S1 in trade publications > (Computerworld, Datamation, etc.) in the mid-80s timeframe, and there is > an S1 button on eBay right now with the words "multi user, multi nodal, > multi tasking, multi processing". In a quick scan, I saw announcements of > some S1 OEM agreements, including Phillips Medical. It was a product of > Multi Solutions, a startup out of Lawrenceville, NJ, so you'd sort of > assume that some Bell Labs talent was on staff. S1 was trademarked in > 1986, it expired in 1993. > From paul at mcjones.org Fri Feb 28 14:21:31 2020 From: paul at mcjones.org (Paul McJones) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:21:31 -0800 Subject: Anyone heard of the S1 Operating System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Googling for "multisolutions inc. s1 operating system" turned up several mentions from ComputerWorld, an S1 operating system pin at Etsy, plus this blog post: http://mathisliberalarts.blogspot.com/2012/03/?m=0 > One day at Burroughs I received a phone call from a recruiter. Usually I don?t give these headhunters the time of day, but this one mentioned a startup company. It was either intrigue or boredom but I decided to interview. Then I was hired to write compilers which I had been doing for about six years at Burroughs. > > The company was a small startup in Lawrenceville, NJ. The CTO was a charismatic engineer named Robert Knight. The CEO was a wealthy businessman, Charles Lombardo, who provided most of the company?s funding. Somehow, maybe because Lombardo?s wife worked on Wall Street, our tiny company, MultiSolutions Inc., actually went public. Even though they actually did not have a product or a revenue stream. > > The product, under development, was an Operating System called S1. The marketing department used the slogan ?Unix is a dinosaur, MS-DOS is a toy.? This was in 1984 and it was true that there was an opportunity for a new OS in the marketplace. > > To kill any suspense, the OS never caught on. ... > Paul > On Feb 28, 2020, at 10:00 AM, wrcooke at wrcooke.net wrote: > > Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 19:20:06 -0600 (CST) > From: wrcooke at wrcooke.net > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Anyone heard of the S1 Operating System > > Reading through the April 85 issue of Byte, I came across a reference to the "S1 Operating System." In Jerry Pournelle's column on pg 361 he talks about this mysterious OS. Here is a small excerpt: > Robert Knight. formerly of > Princeton's computer laboratories. is > an old fan of my books and columns > as well as the creator of SI. which he > had running on an IBM Instruments > CS9000 > > Anyway, my Googling turned up nothing on the OS, although I did find a Robert Knight at Princeton, but no information on stuff he's done. I will likely email him to ask about it, but wanted to ask here first if anyone knows anything about it. > > Thanks, > Will From tomas at basun.net Sat Feb 29 04:35:46 2020 From: tomas at basun.net (Tomas By) Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 11:35:46 +0100 Subject: Anyone heard of the S1 Operating System In-Reply-To: References: <864703037.143807.1582852806783@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: <874kv9znnh.wl-tomas@basun.net> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 21:54:44 +0100, Ray Jewhurst via cctalk wrote: > > Does anyone know what processor S1 was for? According to the ad in Computerworld that somebody mentioned, | PRESENTLY RUNNING ON: 68000, Z80, 8080, 8085 | By Dec. 83: 8086/88 | Jan. 84: 80186 | June 84: 80286 | Aug. 84: 16032 /Tomas From brain at jbrain.com Sat Feb 29 17:42:31 2020 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 17:42:31 -0600 Subject: For those with 6809 experience Message-ID: Looking at the datasheet for the 6809 (specifically, the 6809E that needs incoming quadrature clock), I read that !HALT can be asserted 200nS (for 1MHz part) before falling Q and the CPU will finish the existing instruction and then go into a HALT state as long as the HALT line is low during the falling edge of Q. That's the store from the datasheet, but when I am testing it, I see that, even if I pull HALT low at the very beginning of the last cycle of an instruction, the 6809 will not acknowledge the HALT until executing the next instruction. My logic is watching for IO address $ff61.? When found, it drops Q so, to start the HALT condition, I need only: lda $ff61 Not that the trigger is being performed by the code, so the current instruction (the lda) should complete and then the CPU should go into HiZ.? What I see is: lda $ff61 lda $ff60 <- the next instruction executed, and THEN the CPU goes into HiZ. I can deal with this (Yes, I should just look at BS=BA=1, which tell when to safely use the bus, but I don't have access to those signals for this project), but I thought I'd see if this was known by all, or if there is something I am missing. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com From aek at bitsavers.org Sat Feb 29 23:12:53 2020 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 21:12:53 -0800 Subject: ISO National HPC microcontroller users manual Message-ID: <3087a9c5-ea35-f373-311d-b61f5b376a1a@bitsavers.org> National didn't document the opcodes for the HPC in the data sheets. Does anyone have the users manual? I found the DOS disks for the cross-assembler and c compiler tonight http://bitsavers.org/components/national/hpc From mark.tapley at swri.org Sat Feb 29 11:32:03 2020 From: mark.tapley at swri.org (Tapley, Mark B.) Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 17:32:03 +0000 Subject: Mac Performa 6214CD FTGH from San Antonio, TX Message-ID: <7D0BE011-F9F1-45D1-A671-67D43B427489@swri.edu> All, Next to go is a home-office setup. Mac Performa 6214CD, PowerPC CPU, 3.5? floppy and CD drive on front face Apple Extended Keyboard II (NO ADB CABLE) Apple Apple Desktop Bus Mouse II (round) Apple Multiple Scan 15 Display (matching, includes cable) APS external SCSI hard drive enclosure and cable (Centronix on the hard drive end, DB-25 on the Mac end) Epson Stylus Color 740 ink-jet printer with a spare (unopened) cartridge UMAX Astra 1220S flat-bed SCSI scanner (NO CABLE - DB-25 connector) Pile of accompanying software including at least: DeltaGraph Now Up-To-Date and Contact Sad Macs, Bombs and disasters Retrospect Backup Astra Scanner Driver All Free to a Good Home. You want this if: a) you can afford shipping or pickup from San Antonio, TX, 78254, and b) 15 years after ?Take this job and shove it? came out you finally acted on it, quit your job and set up your own home office and accounting business, and now you want to relive your glory days. All items working when decommissioned, about 15 years back. Fred?s ingenious guarantee (?Guaranteed not to work, double your money back if it does work?) applies. Please, please, please take this as a group, I really don?t want to split it up. If I locate the missing ADB or DB25 SCSI cables in time, I?ll include them, but I?ll double the price :-). FWIW, this was a companion of the Palm Pilot in my other post. - Mark 210-522-6025 office 210-379-4635 cell From mark.tapley at swri.org Sat Feb 29 11:32:10 2020 From: mark.tapley at swri.org (Tapley, Mark B.) Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 17:32:10 +0000 Subject: World's most frustrating FTGH giveaway - Palm Pilot box Message-ID: All, Next to go is a box in which a Palm Pilot was originally sold. The box is in great shape, shrink-wrap intact except where it was sliced just enough to open the top. The manual is in great shape. The registration card is in great shape. The order receipt is in great shape, name of original owner mis-spelled but otherwise apparently correct. The accessories catalog is in great shape. The software on 3 each 3.5? floppies and on CD appears to be in great shape (not test-read yet). The Now Sync accessory software, on 2 more 3.5? floppies, appears to be in great shape. The leatherette protector is in great shape, with its foam insert still inside keeping it shaped for the Palm Pilot. The DE-9 to DB-25 serial port adaptor is in great shape. For Pete?s sake, the screen protector that peeled off the Palm Pilot screen is in great shape, lovingly tucked into the manual. You have probably noticed what is missing. There are no electronics included. No Palm Pilot, no charging/syncing cradle. Grrrr. You probably want this if you picked up the Palm Pilot at ShopGoodwill somewhere, want to re-create that 1997 ?first on the block with a personal digital accessory? feeling and really enjoy going through the accessory paperwork. https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/87198940 (but I think that is a different model). Free to a Good Home, preferably one with an actual Palm Pilot. Shipping will be from San Antonio TX, 78254. If as I suspect, nobody interested, headed to the trash. Standard rules, I?ll wait for a week or so, ship to the sender of the first email in my in-box or to Al K if he emails before I ship. - Mark 210-522-6025 office 210-379-4635 cell