From pontus at Update.UU.SE Wed Aug 1 02:49:02 2018 From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:49:02 +0200 Subject: Australian Computer Museum - HELP In-Reply-To: <4b2bb7d3-2110-9b57-417e-ee14e4a97b93@iprimus.com.au> References: <4b2bb7d3-2110-9b57-417e-ee14e4a97b93@iprimus.com.au> Message-ID: <20180801074902.o54trpdxr5zao7n2@Update.UU.SE> Hi John I seem to recall that the ACMS had a Display 340 from a PDP-6. Is this hardware safe? I hope you can get the help you need. Regards, Pontus On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 11:59:15AM +1000, John GEREMIN via cctalk wrote: > The building housing the Australian Computer Museum is > scheduled to be demolished in 2 weeks. Anyone in Sydney (or > nearby) is invited to HELP preserve the collection by > providing storage (for doco or big or small items) until we > get a proper home. Please email INFO at ACMS.ORG.AU for more > details, or call John 0427 10 20 60 in Australia. > > -- > John GEREMIN, Honorary Treasurer, 0427 10 20 60. > Australian Computer Museum Society Inc. > PO Box 4005, Homebush, NSW, 2140. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > From wayne.sudol at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 10:32:04 2018 From: wayne.sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:32:04 +0000 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca Message-ID: http://www.ctonlineauctions.com/detail.asp?id=746466 >From the pictures it looks to be a fairly complete system with Kennedy tape drive. Has a System industries controller but doesn't appear to have a disk drive. I'd love to have it, but my wife would kill me if i brought something that big home. I hope someone in the Riverside area on this list ( Mark Blair ? ) can acquire it. I have no affiliation with the seller. Wayne From derschjo at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 11:29:14 2018 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:29:14 -0700 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 8:32 AM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > http://www.ctonlineauctions.com/detail.asp?id=746466 > > From the pictures it looks to be a fairly complete system with Kennedy > tape drive. > Has a System industries controller but doesn't appear to have a disk drive. > There is a a drive -- big old Fujitsu SMD drive below the SI controller. I'm guessing a M2284 or similar. > > I'd love to have it, but my wife would kill me if i brought something > that big home. > I hope someone in the Riverside area on this list ( Mark Blair ? ) can > acquire it. > It's a nice system, I hope someone can save it. - Josh > > I have no affiliation with the seller. > > > Wayne > > From macro at linux-mips.org Wed Aug 1 11:44:46 2018 From: macro at linux-mips.org (Maciej W. Rozycki) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:44:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jul 2018, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: > > Are the firmware eproms for the DECstation archived anywhere? > > Are you looking for anything specific, or just like to save them? > > I have most of the decstations ('133, '150, '200, '240 and '260), > but all in containers, moving :( I have several dumps I made for reverse-engineering purposes, and a couple of TURBOchannel option ROM dumps too. Let me see... dglta-fa-rom.img.bz2 kn02-ba.V5.7e.img.bz2 kn02-ba.V5.7j.img.bz2 kn03-aa.V5.1b.img.bz2 kn03-aa.V5.2b.img.bz2 kn04-aa.V2.1k.img.bz2 kn05-aa.V2.1k.img.bz2 pmaf-aa-rom.img.bz2 pmaf-fd-rom.img.bz2 pmag-ca-rom.img.bz2 pmagb-ba-rom.img.bz2 pmagd-ca-rom.img.bz2 pmazc-aa-rom.img.bz2 yes-cbg-rom.img.bz2 That's all I have at hand. For anything else I'd have to reach for actual hardware, which I am currently away from (and my remote lab is currently offline, due to the ISP who decided to cut me off without asking first). I do have many more pieces of hardware, never dumped though -- the last dump I made back in 2005. Let me know if that helps. Maciej From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 12:45:28 2018 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:45:28 -0400 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 8:32 AM, Wayne S via cctalk > wrote: > >> http://www.ctonlineauctions.com/detail.asp?id=746466 >> >> From the pictures it looks to be a fairly complete system with Kennedy >> tape drive. >> Has a System industries controller but doesn't appear to have a disk drive. >> > There is a a drive -- big old Fujitsu SMD drive below the SI controller. > I'm guessing a M2284 or similar. The SI9000 series are nice SMD controllers. We had one on a CMI interface on a VAX-11/750. It made a 160MB Fujitsu drive look like 2 real RM03s (and would boot from the DR boot ROMs) and it made a Fujitsu Eagle look like a fat RM05. We had to patch DRDRIVER.EXE with the geometry tables every time we upgraded the OS. That one got to VMS 4.6 and we froze it there. All of our VMS 5 work was on 100% DEC hardware. The SI 9xxx box could accept multiple SMD drive interfaces (3? 4?) and at least 2 host connections (we had one). I know Systems Industries made Unibus and Qbus host cards too but I never got the chance to play with them. Looks like a fun box but I don't need another 11/34 and I live too many states away. -ethan From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Aug 1 18:27:22 2018 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: from Wayne S via cctalk at "Aug 1, 18 03:32:04 pm" Message-ID: <201808012327.w71NRMvv16908418@floodgap.com> > http://www.ctonlineauctions.com/detail.asp?id=746466 It breaks my heart because I'm in range and the price is certainly right, but I don't have the space to house it (I already have an 11/44 in storage doing absolutely nothing). Mark Blair probably is closest to it. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Cleanliness is next to impossible. ----------------------------------------- From binarydinosaurs at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 18:28:14 2018 From: binarydinosaurs at gmail.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 00:28:14 +0100 Subject: Unknown Z80 CPU board and backplane ID anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <11249180-2A41-4636-BFC7-CEB35D2FE659@gmail.com> <23ada35e-1811-6089-812b-eb2d2f0ac40c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0BBFFAAC-2D2B-42D2-9F59-A5C048990E9D@gmail.com> > On 31 Jul 2018, at 17:20, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote: > > Varian made a bunch of specialized systems/Devices used in Lab environments. Thanks to everyone who?s replied! It?s a pity we don?t have a ROM board or anything that might identify these boards further. It?s one of those things that will turn up unexpectedly and I?ll think ?I?ve seen that board/logo before? then spend ages trying to work out where I?d seen it :) > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 9:45 PM, Rob Doyle via cctalk > wrote: >> That logo is Varian and Associates. >> >> http://www.logobook.com/logo/varian-and-associates/ >> >> Rob. >> >> >> On 7/30/2018 10:27 AM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> A friend of mine in the UK is looking for any info on the following >>> boards. The CPU board is marked ?VA 03-907023-00? and features a Z80 with >>> 16K RAM and an 18.432MHz crystal. The backplane is also VA and has 11 >>> 132-pin slots that aren?t all identical implying usage for different cards >>> in those locations. Voltages are +5/-5/+12V. >>> >> >> -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 1 20:57:59 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 18:57:59 -0700 Subject: CNC paper tape reader pinouts Message-ID: I was trying to find FANUC and Ricom PTR-230 pinouts today and stumbled on these https://www.mefi.cz/files/dokumentace/trans/simulacectecek/ FWIW, here are the pinouts for Sanyo-Denki 1402 https://www.mefi.cz/files/dokumentace/trans/snimanictecek/ktr48.pdf mentioned in http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2015-May/005731.html From santo.nucifora at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 20:58:27 2018 From: santo.nucifora at gmail.com (Santo Nucifora) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 21:58:27 -0400 Subject: Australian Computer Museum - HELP In-Reply-To: <20180801074902.o54trpdxr5zao7n2@Update.UU.SE> References: <4b2bb7d3-2110-9b57-417e-ee14e4a97b93@iprimus.com.au> <20180801074902.o54trpdxr5zao7n2@Update.UU.SE> Message-ID: EEVBlog visits the warehouse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK4M8dv4NNU On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:49 AM Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi John > > I seem to recall that the ACMS had a Display 340 from > a PDP-6. Is this hardware safe? > > I hope you can get the help you need. > > Regards, > Pontus > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 11:59:15AM +1000, John GEREMIN via cctalk wrote: > > The building housing the Australian Computer Museum is > > scheduled to be demolished in 2 weeks. Anyone in Sydney (or > > nearby) is invited to HELP preserve the collection by > > providing storage (for doco or big or small items) until we > > get a proper home. Please email INFO at ACMS.ORG.AU for more > > details, or call John 0427 10 20 60 in Australia. > > > > -- > > John GEREMIN, Honorary Treasurer, 0427 10 20 60. > > Australian Computer Museum Society Inc. > > PO Box 4005, Homebush, NSW, 2140. > > > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > From steven at malikoff.com Wed Aug 1 22:34:08 2018 From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:34:08 +1000 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3f75523608b23eddd38d8bb1814377dc.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> Wayne said > http://www.ctonlineauctions.com/detail.asp?id=746466 > > From the pictures it looks to be a fairly complete system with Kennedy tape drive. > Has a System industries controller but doesn't appear to have a disk drive. > > I'd love to have it, but my wife would kill me if i brought something that big home. > I hope someone in the Riverside area on this list ( Mark Blair ? ) can acquire it. > > I have no affiliation with the seller. > > > Wayne If that machine goes to someone on this list, I'd appreciate getting in touch with them. I have two Kennedy 9000's just like that one, and got a Kennedy formatter from eBay last year. I'd appreciate some info and/or photos on just what controller and formatter that rack setup has, and what docs there might be for same. Thanks for any help, Steve Malikoff. From sales at elecplus.com Thu Aug 2 10:55:02 2018 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:55:02 -0500 Subject: Apologies Message-ID: <017501d42a79$2cccb690$866623b0$@com> When I posted the Sun keyboards, I did not realize that 1) The checkout would not work correctly for TX residents, and 2) The search box was not working. My apologies for all those who tried to buy a keyboard, and could not. Please try again? Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From brain at jbrain.com Thu Aug 2 13:01:28 2018 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:01:28 -0500 Subject: CBM 2040/3040/4040/2031/2031LP loan needed Message-ID: <16730b8c-0650-4482-44d3-653c33fb52f6@jbrain.com> I am wondering if anyone relatively near Southeast Iowa might have a working 170kB 5.25" IEEE drive I can borrow for a few weeks. I know it's a long shot, and you'd think I'd have one sitting here, but all my boat anchor PET drives in my stack are 8050 units. I am hoping to add some functionality to ZoomFloppy to support these drives. I've tried approximating the 4040 with an MSD drive using the IEEE connection, with no success. While I am happy to buy a unit for a reasonable price, and I'll check online for items for sale, that would most likely involve shipping, and the PET drives are ill-suited to ship (financially, and for the health of the unit) It's not a show stopper, as VCF-MW is coming up soon, and I no doubt can borrow a unit from someone then or maybe even fix the code that weekend with a loaner unit.? Still, if I can create some success before hand, so much the better. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com From nf6x at nf6x.net Thu Aug 2 18:56:01 2018 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:56:01 -0700 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: <201808012327.w71NRMvv16908418@floodgap.com> References: <201808012327.w71NRMvv16908418@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <7CA78A28-48A5-4626-8395-14CF44A78690@nf6x.net> It looks lovely, and I live just outside the Riverside city limits. I'm awfully short on both money and indoor storage space right now, though. :( -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From nf6x at nf6x.net Thu Aug 2 19:15:46 2018 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 17:15:46 -0700 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: <7CA78A28-48A5-4626-8395-14CF44A78690@nf6x.net> References: <201808012327.w71NRMvv16908418@floodgap.com> <7CA78A28-48A5-4626-8395-14CF44A78690@nf6x.net> Message-ID: <7DAB184B-2AFA-4611-9B6B-2C30147E1CE1@nf6x.net> Ok, I've studied the pictures carefully and given it some deep consideration, and I've decided that I do not want it. I hope that somebody adopts it! Judging by the power tools that are also listed in the same event, I'd say that the person whose estate this is from was definitely One Of Us. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From sellam.ismail at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 18:38:11 2018 From: sellam.ismail at gmail.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:38:11 -0700 Subject: Sellam's VWoCW VCF XIII 10% Off Show Special! Message-ID: Hello Folks! I have nothing to list for this week because I'm preparing for the big show, the VCF West XIII this coming weekend in Mountain View, California. I'll be bringing a lot of items, some already listed in my VWoCW and some new unlisted items. Examples of unlisted items I plan to bring along: MSI/88e 8088-based portable handheld computer with barcode scanning wand - $150 Integrated Computer Systems Portable Microprocessor Training Lab - $250 Zenith ZFL-184 SuperSport laptop with original Zenith soft shell carrying case - $70 Heathkit H88 - $275 Heathkit H89 - $250 Heathkit H19 - $150 Otrona Attache - $475 Zilog Z-80 Development System with external Zilog dual 8" drive subsystem - $2,000 I also have a series of Commodore PETs, as follows: 2001-8N 2001-16N 2001-32M 4016-12 4016-N 4032-12 4032-N 8032 8032-32B Note: I am only bringing along pre-sold PETs due to space constraints. If you're interested in any of the above items, or any item in my VWOCW, I'll give you a 10% off VCF special if you are prepared to pick up at the VCF. Remember, these are asking prices, I am open to reasonable offers! Please contact me *ASAP* if you're interested in taking advantage of the 10% off VCF special. Any items I bring that aren't pre-sold will go up for sale to the public at the VCF on Saturday morning. You can shop for more items here (as above, 10% off applies if you pre-arrange a sale): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hiX0pNmy48/edit#gid=0&range=A1 Thanks! Sellam From cclist at sydex.com Fri Aug 3 00:33:38 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:33:38 -0700 Subject: ISO: Tape Seal Belts Message-ID: <83618c03-b430-8971-6b90-7ad7f0e1d70f@sydex.com> I'm looking for a small quantity of 10.5" half-inch reel tape seal belts. These are the things that almost everybody with a large collection of tapes used to hang their half-inch tapes in racks made for the purpose. At one time, like tape write rings, these things were as common as cockroaches. Countless millions manufactured. I can't seem to find anyone who is sitting on a pile of these. Not even eBay. Mind you, I don't want the tapes themselves, just the belts. My issue is that I'm getting sent tapes without cases or belts more frequently. I suspect that in many situations, the belts have just been discarded, as they break and become brittle with age. I can remember discarding the hard plastic cases when refitting tapes for the auto-thread drives. We'd fill up dumpsters with the things. If someone is sitting a pile of the old cases, those would do in a pinch. Any ideas or leads welcome. Thanks, Chuck From jbglaw at lug-owl.de Fri Aug 3 04:26:47 2018 From: jbglaw at lug-owl.de (Jan-Benedict Glaw) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 11:26:47 +0200 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> Message-ID: <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> On Wed, 2018-08-01 17:44:46 +0100, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jul 2018, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: > > > Are the firmware eproms for the DECstation archived anywhere? > > Are you looking for anything specific, or just like to save them? > > I have several dumps I made for reverse-engineering purposes, and a > couple of TURBOchannel option ROM dumps too. Let me see... If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). MfG, JBG -- From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Fri Aug 3 09:22:22 2018 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 16:22:22 +0200 (CEST) Subject: RQDX3 formatter Message-ID: Where do you patch the ZRQCH0 binary to use different geometries for non-DEC drives with a RQDX3? As it seems it should be possible, but noone has told how to do this ;-) Christian From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 11:08:44 2018 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:08:44 -0400 Subject: RQDX3 formatter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?38940-Patching-ZRQCH0-to-use-any-geometry-MFM-hard-disk-on-RQDX3 On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > Where do you patch the ZRQCH0 binary to use different geometries for non-DEC > drives with a RQDX3? > As it seems it should be possible, but noone has told how to do this ;-) > > Christian From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 11:09:44 2018 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:09:44 -0400 Subject: RQDX3 formatter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vmsnet.pdp-11/ZjO5I_keK_k On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Bob Smith wrote: > http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?38940-Patching-ZRQCH0-to-use-any-geometry-MFM-hard-disk-on-RQDX3 > > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk > wrote: >> Where do you patch the ZRQCH0 binary to use different geometries for non-DEC >> drives with a RQDX3? >> As it seems it should be possible, but noone has told how to do this ;-) >> >> Christian From spacewar at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 11:34:40 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 10:34:40 -0600 Subject: RQDX3 formatter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote: > http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?38940-Patching- > ZRQCH0-to-use-any-geometry-MFM-hard-disk-on-RQDX3 > Is there some reason Lou doesn't want his document made publicly available on a web page? From glen.slick at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 12:53:12 2018 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 10:53:12 -0700 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:26 AM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk wrote: > > If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for > several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). One interesting thing about MicroVAX 3100 firmware is that the M10/20 and the M10e/20e motherboards are the same (as far as I know) as the InfoServer 100 and 150 motherboards, just with different firmware. In some situations an InfoServer may be more useful than a MicroVAX 3100. They can be converted by replacing the firmware. From bobsmithofd at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 13:44:10 2018 From: bobsmithofd at gmail.com (Bob Smith) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 14:44:10 -0400 Subject: RQDX3 formatter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Eric, The only thing I have seen is the string from VCFED, I don't know if anyone asked Lou about hosting it. Last comment on the thread was Lou - N2MIY Senior Member Join DateMar 2008LocationWestchester County, NYPosts1,244 Sent. If anyone else wants it, let me know. I reread it at lunch today. It seems I finished it three years ago today! Lou On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Bob Smith via cctalk > wrote: >> >> >> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?38940-Patching-ZRQCH0-to-use-any-geometry-MFM-hard-disk-on-RQDX3 > > > Is there some reason Lou doesn't want his document made publicly available > on a web page? > From allisonportable at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 15:09:34 2018 From: allisonportable at gmail.com (allison) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 16:09:34 -0400 Subject: RQDX3 formatter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 08/03/2018 02:44 PM, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote: > Hi Eric, > The only thing I have seen is the string from VCFED, I don't know if > anyone asked Lou about hosting it. > Last comment on the thread was > Lou - N2MIY > Senior Member > Join DateMar 2008LocationWestchester County, NYPosts1,244 > > Sent. > > If anyone else wants it, let me know. I reread it at lunch today. It > seems I finished it three years ago today! > > Lou > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Eric Smith wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Bob Smith via cctalk >> wrote: >>> >>> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?38940-Patching-ZRQCH0-to-use-any-geometry-MFM-hard-disk-on-RQDX3 >> >> Is there some reason Lou doesn't want his document made publicly available >> on a web page? >> I cheat I use a microVAX-2000 the firmware in it formats most everything, even floppies RX33 and RX2x. Allison From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Aug 3 15:23:05 2018 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 21:23:05 +0100 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: On 03/08/18 18:53, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:26 AM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk > wrote: >> If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for >> several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). > One interesting thing about MicroVAX 3100 firmware is that the M10/20 > and the M10e/20e motherboards are the same (as far as I know) as the > InfoServer 100 and 150 motherboards, just with different firmware. In > some situations an InfoServer may be more useful than a MicroVAX 3100. > They can be converted by replacing the firmware. > The specs for the 100 and 150 would confirm your suspicions. There's also a DTJ article somewhere that explains the evolution of the InfoServer line. (After the 150 I think they built custom hardware). Antonio -- Antonio Carlini arcarlini at iee.org From shadoooo at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 15:34:46 2018 From: shadoooo at gmail.com (shadoooo) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 22:34:46 +0200 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, maybe you have also a dump for a 4000-100A ? I have a motherboard which seems to have problems to Bcache or Pcache, and another one which I took as replacement, which has a very old version. I wonder if there's a way to dump the firmware in some way from the non-working one, then update the other... Of course I would avoid to desolder and resolder the flash Roms... Andrea From cctalk at beyondthepale.ie Fri Aug 3 17:04:53 2018 From: cctalk at beyondthepale.ie (Peter Coghlan) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 23:04:53 +0100 (WET-DST) Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01QVNLTWAG0M0011OG@beyondthepale.ie> Andrea wrote: > > maybe you have also a dump for a 4000-100A ? > I have a (most of the time) working MicroVAX 4000-100A. At startup it says: KA52-A V2.3, VMB 2.14 I also have a program which I can run on VMS to dump the firmware on a VAXStation / MicroVAX 2000 / 3100. However, I've tried running it on my 4000-100A and the output doesn't look like firmware :-( If you know the location and size of the firmware image in the 4000 memory map, I can tweak my program to dump it for you. Regards, Peter Coghlan. From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Fri Aug 3 17:47:18 2018 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 22:47:18 +0000 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: On 08/03/2018 01:53 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:26 AM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk > wrote: >> If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for >> several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). > One interesting thing about MicroVAX 3100 firmware is that the M10/20 > and the M10e/20e motherboards are the same (as far as I know) as the > InfoServer 100 and 150 motherboards, just with different firmware. In > some situations an InfoServer may be more useful than a MicroVAX 3100. > They can be converted by replacing the firmware. Has anybody ever tried dis-assembling the 3100 ROM to modify it to boot from bigger disks? bill From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Aug 3 18:44:45 2018 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 00:44:45 +0100 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: On 03/08/18 23:47, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > On 08/03/2018 01:53 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:26 AM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk >> wrote: >>> If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for >>> several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). >> One interesting thing about MicroVAX 3100 firmware is that the M10/20 >> and the M10e/20e motherboards are the same (as far as I know) as the >> InfoServer 100 and 150 motherboards, just with different firmware. In >> some situations an InfoServer may be more useful than a MicroVAX 3100. >> They can be converted by replacing the firmware. > Has anybody ever tried dis-assembling the 3100 ROM to > modify it to boot from bigger disks? > > bill > The MicroVAX 3100 M10e/20e have a fix (or at least a late enough console ROM has the fix). No idea how easy it would be to back-port that to the original 3100 M10/20 (or the VAXstation 3100s). Antonio -- Antonio Carlini arcarlini at iee.org From dave at 661.org Fri Aug 3 22:45:15 2018 From: dave at 661.org (David Griffith) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 03:45:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: PT210 rs232 interface module Message-ID: I've had a fondness for the Radio Shack TRS-80 PT-210 portable printing terminal for a long time. Unfortunately, I've been unable to find an RS-232 interface module for it. A couple years ago I found a hardcopy of the service manual and used it to enter schematics and lay out a board for it. I scanned it and that's the one that's circulating on the web. The schematics and foil patterns in the service manual seem to be slightly wrong, so I've been on the lookout for one on eBay. I found one and won it just now and will use it to verify my design. I should have blank boards ready for sale in a month or two. If the other bidder is here, please email me with a screenshot showing that you bid. I'll send you a blank board free of charge when I get boards made. -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From emu at e-bbes.com Sat Aug 4 05:26:00 2018 From: emu at e-bbes.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 06:26:00 -0400 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: On 2018-08-03 18:47, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > On 08/03/2018 01:53 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:26 AM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk >> wrote: >>> If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for >>> several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). >> One interesting thing about MicroVAX 3100 firmware is that the M10/20 >> and the M10e/20e motherboards are the same (as far as I know) as the >> InfoServer 100 and 150 motherboards, just with different firmware. In >> some situations an InfoServer may be more useful than a MicroVAX 3100. >> They can be converted by replacing the firmware. > > Has anybody ever tried dis-assembling the 3100 ROM to > modify it to boot from bigger disks? 20 year ago, somebody made a patched version which didn't have the 1gb limit ... look in the usenet archives, vms group From emu at e-bbes.com Sat Aug 4 05:31:00 2018 From: emu at e-bbes.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 06:31:00 -0400 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: <3e177bcb-6559-eee2-527e-2ae79ccec21a@bitsavers.org> <5057d654-a411-dd1d-3451-9422511bca58@e-bbes.com> <20180803092647.4ouwl4m5ovaw55zf@lug-owl.de> Message-ID: <7ea68031-f96c-2f47-5e30-1f07863ab4ba@e-bbes.com> On 2018-08-03 18:47, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > On 08/03/2018 01:53 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:26 AM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk >> wrote: >>> If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for >>> several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). >> One interesting thing about MicroVAX 3100 firmware is that the M10/20 >> and the M10e/20e motherboards are the same (as far as I know) as the >> InfoServer 100 and 150 motherboards, just with different firmware. In >> some situations an InfoServer may be more useful than a MicroVAX 3100. >> They can be converted by replacing the firmware. > > Has anybody ever tried dis-assembling the 3100 ROM to > modify it to boot from bigger disks? This should point you in the right direction : https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.vms/Xuyz5yJzjjc From u.tagge at gmx.de Sat Aug 4 05:19:23 2018 From: u.tagge at gmx.de (Ulrich Tagge) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 12:19:23 +0200 Subject: DECstation firmware archive? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe this helps: http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs-scsi.html & ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/ka420/README.txt On 08/03/2018 01:53 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >/On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:26 AM, Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk />/> wrote: />>/If it's of interest, I'd probably add a number of VAXstation dumps for />>/several machines (3100, 4000, VS II GPX, VXT). />/One interesting thing about MicroVAX 3100 firmware is that the M10/20 />/and the M10e/20e motherboards are the same (as far as I know) as the />/InfoServer 100 and 150 motherboards, just with different firmware. In />/some situations an InfoServer may be more useful than a MicroVAX 3100. />/They can be converted by replacing the firmware. / Has anybody ever tried dis-assembling the 3100 ROM to modify it to boot from bigger disks? bill From Frisbie at Flying-Disk.com Fri Aug 3 15:11:13 2018 From: Frisbie at Flying-Disk.com (Alan Frisbie) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2018 13:11:13 -0700 Subject: ISO: Tape Seal Belts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B64B6E1.3050302@Flying-Disk.com> Chuck Guzis wrote: > I'm looking for a small quantity of 10.5" half-inch reel tape seal > belts. These are the things that almost everybody with a large > collection of tapes used to hang their half-inch tapes in racks made for > the purpose. > I can't seem to find anyone who is sitting on a pile of these. You just found someone. What color(s) would you like? The only catch is that I am moving from Los Angeles to Oregon, and they are on a moving van. Seriously. They just finished loading, and the truck is still sitting in front of my house while the crew cleans up. They also loaded three tape racks and about 500 tapes. I won't be following them to Oregon until September, and it may be a few weeks before I can find and unpack one of the boxes (over 800). E-Mail me after Labor Day and I'll see what I can dig out for you. Be warned that I may not have my email server up and running right away. Long-distance moves can be "interesting" (and expensive) for someone who is: A vintage computer enthusiast, an home shop machinist, and a book fanatic, with a wife who shares my book "problem". :-) Examples include: A Century Data T302-RM disk drive, multiple DEC H960 racks with TU56 DECtape drive, 9-track tape drives, etc., a Bridgeport CNC milling machine, two lathes, and lots more shop equipment. They ran out of axle weight capacity before they ran out of space in the semi-trailer. Alan "Packrat" Frisbie From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 10:52:06 2018 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 16:52:06 +0100 Subject: ISO: Tape Seal Belts In-Reply-To: <5B64B6E1.3050302@Flying-Disk.com> References: <5B64B6E1.3050302@Flying-Disk.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 9:11 PM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote: > Long-distance moves can be "interesting" (and expensive) for someone > who is: A vintage computer enthusiast, an home shop machinist, and > a book fanatic, with a wife who shares my book "problem". :-) I can relate to that. I moved house about 4 years ago with rather less than you (just one small lathe, a few racks, a few thousand books, 4 PERQs, etc) and it was not cheap. And that was just across London. I hope you don't have the problems that I have. With the amount of stuff that was 'lost' or damaged in the move, I think I took a 5-figure loss :-( -tony From db at db.net Sat Aug 4 11:41:52 2018 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 12:41:52 -0400 Subject: Books up for grabs Message-ID: <20180804164152.GA3469@night.db.net> I will send these out free for cost of shipping. These two really should go to people who *own* the machines covered. VAX11/780 Hardware Handbook 1978(!) PDP11/45 processor handbook 1971(!) IBM DOS Technical Reference (the 3 ring binder + box) Greenleaf Software Comm Library (3 ring binder + box) I don't think any of these will be a problem mailing to U.S. P.S. I am still waiting on confirmations for the two Livingston PM-11's Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From cclist at sydex.com Sat Aug 4 13:21:53 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 11:21:53 -0700 Subject: Service manual for Archive 4584NP DDS1? Message-ID: <24209887-e4fe-11c9-ba5d-ac40a6b69045@sydex.com> Going through my stuff here, I've found an Archive 4584 DDS1 autoloader. I believe this drive was used on earlier Sun systems. The feed rollers have turned to goo, unfortunately. I've cleaned them off and can probably refurb them, but I need a service manual to figure out how to disassemble the unit--it looks like a bit of a nightmare. Alternatively, if someone wants to take a crack at the thing, you can have it for shipping. Heaven knows, I've got my fill of DDS drives. --Chuck From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Aug 4 15:00:27 2018 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (geneb) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 13:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Books up for grabs In-Reply-To: <20180804164152.GA3469@night.db.net> References: <20180804164152.GA3469@night.db.net> Message-ID: > IBM DOS Technical Reference (the 3 ring binder + box) > Greenleaf Software Comm Library (3 ring binder + box) > I would be interested in these. Shipping would be to 98338. > I don't think any of these will be a problem mailing to U.S. > > P.S. I am still waiting on confirmations for the two Livingston PM-11's If someone bails on the PortMasters, I'd be happy to take one. Thanks! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Sat Aug 4 23:40:39 2018 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 22:40:39 -0600 Subject: Clock batteries... Message-ID: <09d7cea3-1d6a-f7d7-185c-63619fe52ba4@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Does anybody know if external 3.6 VDC batteries, like the TL5242, are the counterpart for on board 3.0 VDC batteries, like the BR2335-T3L? -- Grant. . . . unix || die From useddec at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 21:37:24 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:37:24 -0500 Subject: IBM PS2 boards, IBM, Novell Message-ID: I'm still sorting and found a few IBM83X9648 boards and 8 or so Novell 816-312 also numbered 738-154-001. AT and XT boards next. If you are interested or have questions, please contact me off list. Thanks, Paul From w9gb at icloud.com Sun Aug 5 13:02:06 2018 From: w9gb at icloud.com (Gregory Beat) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 13:02:06 -0500 Subject: Clock batteries... Message-ID: <14BA85A8-CE53-4F66-B8D4-CF935325B182@icloud.com> Not exactly. The TL-5242 is more than 3 times the price and chemistry difference. I assume you do not desire to replace the Lithium Coin Cell ? or can?t find? Tadrian TL-5242-W Lithium battery https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tadiran-Batteries/TL5242W?qs=Yk42LiOZU8T3HaRcWXYg9A%3D%3D Data sheet https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/474/TL-5242-W-1214138.pdf BR2335 Lithium Coin Cell w/solder terminals (BR2335-T3L) After Panasonic purchased Sanyo, a decade ago, they control about 70% of the global lithium coin cell market. https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/products/batteries/primary-batteries/lithium-batteries?list=1 Panasonic refers to your solder terminal profile as ?Type G?, 3-pin mount. They have designated a suffix for each style, in this case GUFN or GUN. == Panasonic BR 2330 ?Type G?. Suffix: GUFN (yellow insulator) and GUN (no insulator) Size and mounting identical. 255 mAh rating. The GUFN at Mouser for $2.05 each (not currently in stock) https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic-Battery/BR-2330-GUFN?qs=rqxQITSEgRTHNfPNTTSqmg%3D%3D Panasonic Data Sheet https://industrial.panasonic.com/cdbs/www-data/pdf2/AAA4000/AAA4000D95.pdf Ray-O-Vac BR 2335-T3L Lithium Coin Cell, 300 mAh Data sheet http://farnell.com//datasheets/1728610.pdf?_ga=2.53046696.1289741559.1533439505-342454128.1528727046 Where to BUY ? Solder Tab lithium batteries are used in MILLIONS of Mobile devices (Toll Road transponders, various auto/truck dongles, etc.). Electronics Distributors: Digi-Key, Mouser, Future, Allied, and Newark/Farnell stock these lithium coin cells. In addition, Batteries Plus retail stores (across North America) have Solder Tab Welders ?on premise? and can create the coin cell you desire (Just In Time needs). This consumer convenience is higher in cost. Lithium Coin cells are PROHIBITED from domestic Air Shipment (USPS Priority Mail) ? SO shipping costs can be higher and require longer time. I order my needs 2 or 3 times each year, of the most popular profiles. Panasonic Lithium Battery Catalog (circa 2015) https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/system/files/data/download/catalog/id_lithium_e.pdf?download=1 greg == Does anybody know if external 3.6 VDC batteries, like the TL5242, are the counterpart for on board 3.0 VDC batteries, like the BR2335-T3L? From jlw at jlw.com Sun Aug 5 23:37:32 2018 From: jlw at jlw.com (Jeff Woolsey) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 21:37:32 -0700 Subject: ISO: Tape Seal Belts In-Reply-To: <5B64B6E1.3050302@Flying-Disk.com> References: <5B64B6E1.3050302@Flying-Disk.com> Message-ID: Ahh, someone crazier than myself, who just moved about five miles with only 100 tapes and 1 tape drive, and no tape racks.? Some are auto-load, some are the hanger-seals (belts) you mention, some are in cannisters. -- Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage. "Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management Card-sorting, Joel. -Crow on solitaire From useddec at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 01:56:15 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 01:56:15 -0500 Subject: Boards for XTs and ATs Message-ID: XT boards IBM 1501994 Async card 83X9262 or 3 qty 3) 110-6135952-01 serial/ parallel 6236194 JB125540 has DB25 Sysgen PSA 1030 30-02131 Seagate 20917 Everex EV138 memory 30150986? B/W Parallel WDXT-GEN 61-000222-08 AT boards qty 2) Interlan NT 600A-3 DET 55X3543 AST 20297 AST Premion 386 Cache mem ME/2MB 181-7043-3E 85-3408-01 181-7044-3E 85-3331-01? AT&T TARGA-1.0 Verticom GPG assy? 3 board set DC4030VL-1 IDE/floppy/mem WD1988 1006V? drive cont TMC-1680Future Domain a flop/ SCSI EV346 drive cont 3COM ETHERLINKS III 3COM ETHERLINKS 16 If you have any questions or interest, please contact me off list. I would prefer to sell by the lot. Sorry for any typos, Thanks, Paul From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Mon Aug 6 05:30:35 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 06:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PC04 cables Message-ID: <20180806103035.9D9C818C09C@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> So, for needs of my own I've been studying up on the PC04 and PC05, and also the differences between them (which cables they use, etc, etc). I decided I should write up what I've learned, since there's no simple source for all this stuff; the remaining documentation is kind of spotty (lots of things are no longer extant, or at least not available online), and I've gathered data from far and wide. So I have most of it now written up, available here: http://gunkies.org/wiki/PC04/PC05_Paper-Tape_Reader/Punch (and feedback, comments, corrections, etc would be most gratefully received), but one area which I wasn't able to cover as definitively as I'd have liked is the PDP-8 connectivity (cabling, etc). I was able to glean a few details from the PC04'05 Manual (DEC-00-PC0A-D), but the details of the cables, etc for all PDP-8 models _other_ than the PDP-8/E I couldn't locate. So, can I appeal to anyone who has, or can point me at, documentation for the connection of the PC04 to _other_ PDP-8 models please lend a hand - _especially_ if you have paper documentation which is not available online? And speaking of online documentation, it turns out (to my initial surprise, but it makes sense) is that the M7810.is _not_ the first PC11! There was an earlier one, the M781 card, which (like the KL11->DL11) is program compatible, but is a dual card which one uses with an M105 and an M7821. So I have access to a set of prints for that, and will scan them and make them available at some point - but if anyone has any use for it, please let me know, and I will accelerate that. If uses BC08F cables, the details of which _aren't_ included in the drawing set (grrr!), so again, if anyone has that info, I'd appreciate a copy. Finally, speaking of missing stuff, several DEC manuals refer to the "Roytron Model 500 Maintenance Manual" (alternative title "Royal-McBee Model 500 Maintenance Manual"), which again I couldn't find. Does anyone have a copy of this? Thanks! Noel From aek at bitsavers.org Mon Aug 6 08:22:45 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 06:22:45 -0700 Subject: PC04 cables In-Reply-To: <20180806103035.9D9C818C09C@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20180806103035.9D9C818C09C@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On 8/6/18 3:30 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > Finally, speaking of missing stuff, several DEC manuals refer to the "Roytron > Model 500 Maintenance Manual" (alternative title "Royal-McBee Model 500 > Maintenance Manual"), which again I couldn't find. Does anyone have a copy > of this? is it roytron/Roytron500_1966.pdf ? I thought that was the punch when I went looking for the manual. From aek at bitsavers.org Mon Aug 6 08:25:03 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 06:25:03 -0700 Subject: PC04 cables In-Reply-To: References: <20180806103035.9D9C818C09C@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: will also check if the manual in http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102750774 is the same thing. On 8/6/18 6:22 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 8/6/18 3:30 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > >> Finally, speaking of missing stuff, several DEC manuals refer to the "Roytron >> Model 500 Maintenance Manual" (alternative title "Royal-McBee Model 500 >> Maintenance Manual"), which again I couldn't find. Does anyone have a copy >> of this? > > is it roytron/Roytron500_1966.pdf ? > > I thought that was the punch when I went looking for the manual. > > > From aek at bitsavers.org Mon Aug 6 08:36:42 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 06:36:42 -0700 Subject: PC04 cables In-Reply-To: References: <20180806103035.9D9C818C09C@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <90ed4815-65e6-7fcb-002b-fce892ec609c@bitsavers.org> it is.. On 8/6/18 6:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > will also check if the manual in > http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102750774 > > is the same thing. > > > On 8/6/18 6:22 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> On 8/6/18 3:30 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: >> >>> Finally, speaking of missing stuff, several DEC manuals refer to the "Roytron >>> Model 500 Maintenance Manual" (alternative title "Royal-McBee Model 500 >>> Maintenance Manual"), which again I couldn't find. Does anyone have a copy >>> of this? >> >> is it roytron/Roytron500_1966.pdf ? >> >> I thought that was the punch when I went looking for the manual. >> >> >> > From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Mon Aug 6 08:53:28 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PC04 cables Message-ID: <20180806135328.206CD18C09A@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Al Kossow > is it roytron/Roytron500_1966.pdf ? That sure looks like it! The illustration on pg 5-16 of the DEC PC054/PC05 manual looks just like the thing illustated on the cover of that. I wonder why it didn't turn up in the Web searches? Probably because this doesn't include the term 'maintenance manual'? I'll add the link to the article. Thanks! Noel From tshoppa at wmata.com Mon Aug 6 12:24:05 2018 From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:24:05 +0000 Subject: Computer tape quantities in the 70's or 80's? Message-ID: Bitsavers has preserved a couple of key marketing studies that help me understand the wide world of disk storage in the 70's and 80's. For example http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/competitiveAnalysis/Engineering_Strategy_Review_Mar82.pdf has numbers both for DEC and world disk market. DEC sales were a substantial chunk of the world market of disk sales and the document seems to understand the up and coming world of small disks while also having good numbers on the mainframe disk world. I wonder if we have any documentation (probably internal numbers but maybe also including guessing at competition) of, say, reels of half inch magtape sales sold in the past. Chances are this would be a 3M or competitor's document since the bulk of magtape media sales were not normally done through DEC or IBM etc. For example I might guess that by the 1980's there were 5 reels of 2400foot half inch magtape for every person in America and tapes were reused up to 10 years. That would imply that 100 million reels of tape were sold a year. But that's just a guess and maybe I'm off by an order of magnitude one way or the other. So if you know of any documents to help me get a comprehension of the scale of computer tape manufacturing in the 1970's and 1980's, please let me know! It might be a 3M press release bragging about opening a new plant and what it's capable of, for example. Tim N3QE From cclist at sydex.com Mon Aug 6 13:12:49 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 11:12:49 -0700 Subject: Computer tape quantities in the 70's or 80's? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd probably start with the US Commerce Department. In their industrial report summaries, the product code is "36950 11" e.g.: https://tinyurl.com/y8ks3mdd for 1987-88 I don't know if the information exists on a worldwide basis. --Chuck On 08/06/2018 10:24 AM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote: > Bitsavers has preserved a couple of key marketing studies that help me understand the wide world of disk storage in the 70's and 80's. For example http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/competitiveAnalysis/Engineering_Strategy_Review_Mar82.pdf has numbers both for DEC and world disk market. DEC sales were a substantial chunk of the world market of disk sales and the document seems to understand the up and coming world of small disks while also having good numbers on the mainframe disk world. > > I wonder if we have any documentation (probably internal numbers but maybe also including guessing at competition) of, say, reels of half inch magtape sales sold in the past. Chances are this would be a 3M or competitor's document since the bulk of magtape media sales were not normally done through DEC or IBM etc. > > For example I might guess that by the 1980's there were 5 reels of 2400foot half inch magtape for every person in America and tapes were reused up to 10 years. That would imply that 100 million reels of tape were sold a year. But that's just a guess and maybe I'm off by an order of magnitude one way or the other. > > So if you know of any documents to help me get a comprehension of the scale of computer tape manufacturing in the 1970's and 1980's, please let me know! It might be a 3M press release bragging about opening a new plant and what it's capable of, for example. > > Tim N3QE > -- --Chuck Sent from my digital computer From tshoppa at wmata.com Mon Aug 6 13:34:21 2018 From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:34:21 +0000 Subject: Computer tape quantities in the 70's or 80's? Message-ID: Chuck writes: > I'd probably start with the US Commerce Department. In their industrial > report summaries, the product code is "36950 11" > e.g.: https://tinyurl.com/y8ks3mdd for 1987-88 Wow, Chuck, that is fascinating info that I had no idea was so easily accessed. Thank you! It looks like the tape production in the 80's was 30M to 40M reels per year so my guess at 100M was high but not too far off. I super like some of the product codes just on those pages. E.g. 35711 22 is Analog Computers, and 35751 75 is Teleprinters under 20 characters per second (e.g. Model 33's which saw a steep decline through the 1980's. I'm guessing they would've peaked in the early 70's.). Tim N3QE From db at db.net Mon Aug 6 13:55:08 2018 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 14:55:08 -0400 Subject: Pair of Portmaster II's In-Reply-To: References: <20180725195633.GA4172@night.db.net> Message-ID: <20180806185508.GA33794@night.db.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 02:03:24PM -0600, Tammy Firefly via cctalk wrote: > Diane, > Ill take them. What do you want for them? An old friend expressed interest in one but I have not heard confirmation yet. I don't know what they are worth. Be aware they are 15 pounds each 13"Lx6"Wx11"L each > > Thanks > --Tammy > > > On 7/25/18 1:56 PM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > > I have two Livingston PM-11's (http://portmasters.com/faq.html) and I haven't needed > > either of these in a long time. Is anyone interested in them? > > > > Diane > > -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From db at db.net Mon Aug 6 13:58:26 2018 From: db at db.net (Diane Bruce) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 14:58:26 -0400 Subject: Narrow width fan fold paper Message-ID: <20180806185826.GA33852@night.db.net> I found over a full box of fan fold paper for an MX-80 that was hiding all these years. It's here in Ottawa Canada so if you want it and can arrange pick up it's yours. Otherwise it's scrap paper. This isn't worth the shipping! Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db From trash80 at internode.on.net Mon Aug 6 18:07:36 2018 From: trash80 at internode.on.net (Kevin Parker) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 09:07:36 +1000 Subject: Australian Computer Museum in trouble. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <028b01d42dda$44920e10$cdb62a30$@internode.on.net> Its also made the ABC News over here... http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-08-07/australian-computer-museum-society-risk-from-bulldozers/10077580 Kevin Parker -----Original Message----- From: cctalk On Behalf Of John GEREMIN via cctalk Sent: Friday, 27 July 2018 11:01 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Australian Computer Museum in trouble. Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM -- Dispersal Days -- Villawood NSW. We have been told that BULLDOZERS will demolish our Villawood storage space in 2 weeks. We have yet to find a suitable/affordable alternate space so ... "OPEN DOOR DAYS" The old fruit shop at 888 Woodville Road, VILLAWWOOD, will be open for anyone who cares to come and take anything away and help preserve our computing heritage. Hours: Sat 28th/Sun29th 9am to 9pm, then Monday-Friday 10am to 10pm, repeat the next week. Off-street parking, easiest access is from south (Hume Hwy), see Google Maps. Bring your Car, Van or Ute and enough muscle to help empty our shed. Please tell your friends and/or work colleagues. -- John GEREMIN, Honorary Treasurer, 0427 10 20 60. Australian Computer Museum Society Inc. PO Box 4005, Homebush, NSW, 2140. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From couryhouse at aol.com Mon Aug 6 19:00:44 2018 From: couryhouse at aol.com (Ed Sharpe) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:00:44 -0400 Subject: Australian Computer Museum in trouble. In-Reply-To: <028b01d42dda$44920e10$cdb62a30$@internode.on.net> Message-ID: <16511af8c7c-c8e-4799@webjas-vae068.srv.aolmail.net> argghhh!? ?the? 1401 is outside? time to prioritize... I? see stuff inside that? could? switch places.... ? This is? sad? though... something? needs to? be? done... ? ? Ed# ? In a message dated 8/6/2018 4:07:49 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: ? Its also made the ABC News over here... http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-08-07/australian-computer-museum-society-risk-from-bulldozers/10077580 Kevin Parker -----Original Message----- From: cctalk On Behalf Of John GEREMIN via cctalk Sent: Friday, 27 July 2018 11:01 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Australian Computer Museum in trouble. Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM -- Dispersal Days -- Villawood NSW. We have been told that BULLDOZERS will demolish our Villawood storage space in 2 weeks. We have yet to find a suitable/affordable alternate space so ... "OPEN DOOR DAYS" The old fruit shop at 888 Woodville Road, VILLAWWOOD, will be open for anyone who cares to come and take anything away and help preserve our computing heritage. Hours: Sat 28th/Sun29th 9am to 9pm, then Monday-Friday 10am to 10pm, repeat the next week. Off-street parking, easiest access is from south (Hume Hwy), see Google Maps. Bring your Car, Van or Ute and enough muscle to help empty our shed. Please tell your friends and/or work colleagues. -- John GEREMIN, Honorary Treasurer, 0427 10 20 60. Australian Computer Museum Society Inc. PO Box 4005, Homebush, NSW, 2140. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From chd at chdickman.com Mon Aug 6 20:45:09 2018 From: chd at chdickman.com (Charles Dickman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 21:45:09 -0400 Subject: RQDX3 formatter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > Where do you patch the ZRQCH0 binary to use different geometries for non-DEC > drives with a RQDX3? > As it seems it should be possible, but noone has told how to do this ;-) > > Christian You patch the disk description table in the formatter (ZRQC) that gets downloaded to the RQDX3 during formatting. The table has about 30 parameters in it and needs to be consistent. Unfortunately it is not as simple as just supplying geometry, it is also necessary to determine how to allocate diagnostic and bad block areas of the disk. There is source for an early version of ZRQC on bitsavers ( http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/microfiche/ftp.j-hoppe.de/bw/gh/AH-U110C-MC__RD31-51-52-53-54,RQDX3,RX33__RQDX3_FORMATTER__CZRQCC0__(C)1985-86.pdf ) and this has the format of the table and the contents for some of the standard DEC disks (RD51, RD52, etc). The version that has source available is not in the normally available XXDP images, so once you know what the table looks like, you have to find it in the version of ZRQC that you have and patch the binary. The later version of ZRQC has more disks in the table. The one that I used had RD51, 2 types of RD52, 2 types of RD53, RD54, RD31, RD32, and RD33. I took the contents of the table and the additional entries to try to figure out how to allocate regions when the disk got bigger. Interesting too is that the source on bitsaver's has a conversational mode that would let you enter the disk tables by answering a series of prompts. This was not in the version that I had on disk. The spreadsheet link on this page: http://www.chdickman.com/pdp11/RQDX3/ has my calculations. Sheet1 is probably useless to anyone. Sheet 2 has the tables for the various disks and the calculations I used to try to determine what size to use for new disks. sheet 3 has the new disk calculator on it. In the Custom column, the blue cells are inputs, the orange values are calculated and the black values are "standard". The HEX and Octal columns were to help when filling in the XXDP table. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. -chuck From jim at photojim.ca Mon Aug 6 21:16:21 2018 From: jim at photojim.ca (Jim MacKenzie) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:16:21 -0600 Subject: Pair of Portmaster II's In-Reply-To: <20180806185508.GA33794@night.db.net> References: <20180725195633.GA4172@night.db.net> <20180806185508.GA33794@night.db.net> Message-ID: Apologies, Diane - I've just been waiting to hear back from you as to what shipping might cost: Jim MacKenzie 165 Coldwell Road Regina, SK? S4R 4K7 If you can let me know, I can make a decision.? No rush. Jim From tosteve at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 21:52:58 2018 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (Steven Stengel) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 19:52:58 -0700 Subject: Wanted: Exidy Sorcerer CP/M cart or disk Message-ID: Hi, I need CP/M, either floppy or cart based, for my Exidy Sorcerer. I want to format and use the floppy drives - I have the S-100 expansion and interface card. I?ll make copies and return your disk if you have one. Thanks- Steve. From terry at webweavers.co.nz Mon Aug 6 22:10:43 2018 From: terry at webweavers.co.nz (Terry Stewart) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 15:10:43 +1200 Subject: Wanted: Exidy Sorcerer CP/M cart or disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve, If you find this software, (and it's not in any other obvious place), I'd be happy to host it here. https://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2017-01-23-software-for-real-sorcerers.htm Terry On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Steven Stengel via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi, I need CP/M, either floppy or cart based, for my Exidy Sorcerer. > > I want to format and use the floppy drives - I have the S-100 expansion > and interface card. > > I?ll make copies and return your disk if you have one. > > Thanks- > Steve. > > From steve at oldcomputers.net Mon Aug 6 15:59:56 2018 From: steve at oldcomputers.net (Oldcomputers) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 13:59:56 -0700 Subject: Wanted: Exidy Sorcerer CP/M Message-ID: Hi, I need CP/M, either floppy or cart based, for my Exidy Sorcerer. I want to format and use the floppy drives - I have the S-100 expansion and interface card. I?ll make a copy and return your disk if you have one. Thanks- Steve. From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Tue Aug 7 06:48:14 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 07:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PC04 cables Message-ID: <20180807114814.75ACD18C094@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > can I appeal to anyone who has, or can point me at, documentation for > the connection of the PC04 to _other_ PDP-8 models please lend a hand - > _especially_ if you have paper documentation which is not available > online? The other thing I'm looking for is anything about the earlier version of the reader, the one that used the stepper motor to strobe the data, instead of the feed holes. I've seen references to this in the DEC documentation, but other than that, I have nothing on it. Noel From aek at bitsavers.org Tue Aug 7 09:21:05 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 07:21:05 -0700 Subject: PC04 cables In-Reply-To: <20180807114814.75ACD18C094@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20180807114814.75ACD18C094@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <8bec67b9-384c-97c4-47fe-03cac34f5b89@bitsavers.org> On 8/7/18 4:48 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > The other thing I'm looking for is anything about the earlier version of the > reader PC02 maint was on bitsavers under dec/papertape Just added the engr drws for the PC01 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 7 17:16:23 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 15:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FPUIB: Books available free or postage Message-ID: I will not do extensive/conscientious shopping for boxes/shipping rates. So, they may go Priority or Media mail, and not extremely quickly. I'll expect prompt reimbursement of postage (rounded up). Anybody want any of: Simpson, Alan dBase III Plus Programmer's Reference Guide Sybex 1987 0-89588-382-1 Very Good Business Computer Systems : An Introduction Kroenke, David Mitchell 1987 0-394-39055-5 Very Good Promotional copy, marked as such C : How To Program : 4th Edition Deitel Prentice hall 2004 0-13-142644-3 Good, racked, Cisin on edge Fuzzy Logic : For business And Industry Earl Cox Charles river 1995 1-886801-01-0 poor remaindered? missing front cover Lotus User's Guide : Lotus 1-2-3 For DOS Release 2.4 Lotus 1993 C Primer Plus Waite/Prata/Martin Sams 1984 0-672-22090-3 VG Adobe Photoshop 5.0 User Guide Adobe 1998 G damaged back cover ObjectVision Reference Guide Borland 1991 vg Advanced dBase III Plus Programming And Techniques Miriam Liskin osborene/McGraw0-07-881249-6 VG Adobe Photoshop 5.5 User Guid Supplement Adobe 1999 G Microsoft Windows Programmer's Reference "New For Version 3 Microsoft 1990 1-55615-309-0 G Systems Programming In Turbo C Michael Young Sybex 1988 0-89588-467-4 G Java in A Nutshell 2nd Edition Flanagan O'Reilly 1997 1-56592-262-X G Systems Programming Tuning Loukides O'Reilly 1990 0-937175-60-9 G Discrete Mathematics : Schaum's Outlines Lipson McGraw Hill new Xerox Ventura Publisher training Guide Xerox 1988 G Palm Pilot : The Connected Organizer : Handbook professional Edition, Quick Start, Applications & Solutions 3Com/Palm 1997 vg OB_Disclaimer: these did not sell at VCF (Box A10) From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 7 18:42:05 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 16:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FPUIB: MORE Books available free or postage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (Box A11) Microsoft Windows NT Workstation Resource Kit (for Version 4.0) Microsoft 1996 1-57231-343-9 NO-DISK VG Client/Server Computing Dewire McGraw-Hill 1993 0-07-016732-X G Library discard Learning And Using dBase III PLUS,Programming With dBase III PLUS Ashton-Tate 1985 2 volume plastic slipcase VG CARETS Computer-Aided RETyping System Pattern Analytics 1987 4 disks slipcase VG READRight 2.01 OCR Systems 1989 3.5" disks VG CompuAdd User's Guide Microsoft Windows 3.0 User's Guide IBM PC-DOS 3.20 no-disks VG Slipcase (3.20 was first with 3.5" [720K]) IBM PC-DOS 3.20 with 5.25" "Supplemental Programs" disk VG Slipcase (3.20 was first with 3.5" [720K]) IBM PC-DOS 3.30 Technical Reference Slipcase VG -- Fred Cisin cisin at xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 7 19:54:22 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 17:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FPUIB: OMG Will it never end? Magazines available free or postage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (Box A33) Microsoft Systems Journal V2#5 November 1987 V5#6 November 1990 V5#6 November 1990 V6#1 January 1991 V6#2 March 1991 V6#3 May 1991 V6#3 May 1991 V6#4 July 1991 V6#5 S/O 1991 V6#6 N/D 1991 V7#4 July/August 1992 V7#4 July/August 1992 V7#7 Novemer 1992 V8#1 January 1993 V8#3 March 1993 V8#6 June 1993 V8#8 August 1993 V8#12 V9#12 V9#12 V10#12 D 9 V12#4 Apr 1997 V13#7 July 1998 Dr. Dobb's Journal #126 April 1987 #185 Feb 1992 #190 July 1992 #192 September 1992 #195 December 1992 #198 March 1993 #304 Oct 1999 IBM Personal Systems Technical Journal 1989 #1 1989 #3 1990 #3 Microcornucopia #41 May/Jun 1988 Programmer's Journal 4.4 Jul/Aug 1986 5.3 May/Jun 1987 5.4 Jul/Aug 1987 5.5 Sep/Oct 1987 6.1 Jan/Feb 1988 6.2 Mar/Apr 1988 6.3 May/Jun 1988 6.4 Jul/Aug 1988 6.5 Sep/Oct 1988 6.6 Nov/Dec 1988 7.1 Jan/Feb 1989 7.1 Jan/Feb 1989 7.2 Mar/Apr 1989 7.5 Sep/Oct 1989 PC World July 1992 Circuit Cellar INK The Computer Applications Journal #19 Feb/Mar 1991 #21 Jun/Jul 1991 PC Publishing V2#6 Jul 1987 V2#7 Aug 1987 Apr 1989 May 1989 Speech technology Spring 1996 Jun/Jul 1997 Jan/Feb 1998 Computer Language V8#3 Mar 1991 V8#4 Apr 1991 V9#11 Nov 1992 Release 1.0 86-11 Oct 1986 From cclist at sydex.com Tue Aug 7 20:54:42 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 18:54:42 -0700 Subject: ISO: Blue (usually) Silicone? tape retainer material Message-ID: Another open-reel tape query for the experts. I recall that new tapes would often come with a strip of (usually blue) silicone-ish tape to retain the end of the tape. I've got a couple of strips here and I'll swear that I've seen the stuff in other applications, but memory fails me. It's not sticky in itself, but sticks quite nicely to mylar tape. Easily removed and indefinitely reusable. I think I've seen it in kids' toys of the era, where various patterned pieces were cut from the stuff and assembled on something akin to a whiteboard. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Do you know what the stuff is and where I can get some? Thanks for any help, Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 7 21:19:32 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 19:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ISO: Blue (usually) Silicone? tape retainer material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Aug 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Another open-reel tape query for the experts. > I recall that new tapes would often come with a strip of (usually blue) > silicone-ish tape to retain the end of the tape. I've got a couple of > strips here and I'll swear that I've seen the stuff in other > applications, but memory fails me. > It's not sticky in itself, but sticks quite nicely to mylar tape. > Easily removed and indefinitely reusable. > I think I've seen it in kids' toys of the era, where various patterned > pieces were cut from the stuff and assembled on something akin to a > whiteboard. > Does this ring any bells with anyone? Do you know what the stuff is and > where I can get some? > Thanks for any help, > Chuck "Self-fusing" silicone tape is used for mending hoses, and the like - fairly extreme stretch, and overlapping wrap. It's non-adhesive, but sticks to itself. It's avaialable in blue, but it's usually 1 inch wide. https://www.amazon.com/FuseIt-Tape-Self-Fusing-Silicone-30mil/dp/B012Y4NJ3Y/ It's not the stuff that I remember with tapes, but similar From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Aug 7 21:19:59 2018 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 19:19:59 -0700 Subject: ISO: Blue (usually) Silicone? tape retainer material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <666d316e-88bc-7a68-e93b-9992808839e7@crash.com> On 08/07/2018 18:54, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > I recall that new tapes would often come with a strip of (usually blue) > silicone-ish tape ... Yes, I remember those. Don't have a source for exactly equivalent material, but you might be able to use 3-5 mil sign vinyl if you could get it without the adhesive on one side. > I think I've seen it in kids' toys of the era, where various patterned > pieces were cut from the stuff and assembled on something akin to a > whiteboard. The brand I'm remembering from the 1970s was Colorforms. Apparently still a thing. The www.colorforms.com site is alive. --S. From cclist at sydex.com Tue Aug 7 21:37:16 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 19:37:16 -0700 Subject: ISO: Blue (usually) Silicone? tape retainer material In-Reply-To: <666d316e-88bc-7a68-e93b-9992808839e7@crash.com> References: <666d316e-88bc-7a68-e93b-9992808839e7@crash.com> Message-ID: On 08/07/2018 07:19 PM, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote: > The brand I'm remembering from the 1970s was Colorforms. Apparently > still a thing. The www.colorforms.com site is alive. That's the stuff! Not silicone at all but vinyl mat. Thanks! Now I have to figure out where to find some. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 8 00:36:44 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 22:36:44 -0700 Subject: ISO: Blue (usually) Silicone? tape retainer material In-Reply-To: References: <666d316e-88bc-7a68-e93b-9992808839e7@crash.com> Message-ID: <036b55c0-66e0-928d-c239-c23cdfadd01b@sydex.com> On 08/07/2018 07:37 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 08/07/2018 07:19 PM, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote: > >> The brand I'm remembering from the 1970s was Colorforms. Apparently >> still a thing. The www.colorforms.com site is alive. > > That's the stuff! Not silicone at all but vinyl mat. Thanks! > > Now I have to figure out where to find some. I think I found exactly what I need. Called "vinyl cling"--there's an assortment of colors sold under the Grafix brand. I'll let the list know how it works in the next week or two. Should beat foam blocks. --Chuck From t.gardner at computer.org Wed Aug 8 01:11:51 2018 From: t.gardner at computer.org (Tom Gardner) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 23:11:51 -0700 Subject: Computer tape quantities in the 70's or 80's? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00ca01d42ede$b3647670$1a2d6350$@computer.org> Phister's numbers in Table II 1.27a Supplies Line Item Figure Units 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 20 Total Tapes Shipped M 0.085 0.227 0.544 0.825 1.37 2.25 2.97 3.2 4 5 5.7 4.7 4.5 6.6 9.4 9.9 9.7 10.1 10.7 11.2 tom -----Original Message----- From: Shoppa, Tim [mailto:tshoppa at wmata.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 11:34 AM To: 'cctalk at classiccmp.org' Subject: Re: Computer tape quantities in the 70's or 80's? Chuck writes: > I'd probably start with the US Commerce Department. In their > industrial report summaries, the product code is "36950 11" > e.g.: https://tinyurl.com/y8ks3mdd for 1987-88 Wow, Chuck, that is fascinating info that I had no idea was so easily accessed. Thank you! It looks like the tape production in the 80's was 30M to 40M reels per year so my guess at 100M was high but not too far off. I super like some of the product codes just on those pages. E.g. 35711 22 is Analog Computers, and 35751 75 is Teleprinters under 20 characters per second (e.g. Model 33's which saw a steep decline through the 1980's. I'm guessing they would've peaked in the early 70's.). Tim N3QE From useddec at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 05:16:10 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 05:16:10 -0500 Subject: Vaxstation 2000, parts, more Message-ID: I have a Vaxstation 2000 with the BA40-A expansion box , cable and hard drive. I have four more unit That I couldn't get close enough to tell if they are 2000s or expansion boxes. If anyone is interest in any, I will pull them out and can supply a configuration. I also have two MS400-BA 4mb cards, a VS40-X 54-166-88 4 plane graphics cards and two VS40-X 54-17282-01 8 plane cards. Last is a 54-19783-01 VT1000 board. If you have any interest or questions please contact me off list. Thanks, Paul From paulkoning at comcast.net Wed Aug 8 08:08:47 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 09:08:47 -0400 Subject: ISO: Blue (usually) Silicone? tape retainer material In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19AFBC4E-57A9-4615-A567-2E3089D76A84@comcast.net> > On Aug 7, 2018, at 9:54 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Another open-reel tape query for the experts. > > I recall that new tapes would often come with a strip of (usually blue) > silicone-ish tape to retain the end of the tape. I've got a couple of > strips here and I'll swear that I've seen the stuff in other > applications, but memory fails me. > > It's not sticky in itself, but sticks quite nicely to mylar tape. > Easily removed and indefinitely reusable. > > I think I've seen it in kids' toys of the era, where various patterned > pieces were cut from the stuff and assembled on something akin to a > whiteboard. > > Does this ring any bells with anyone? Do you know what the stuff is and > where I can get some? I don't know what the material is; vinyl would be a guess. Yes, I remember those toys from the 1960s. The ones we had were pre-cut in various shapes, animals and such, and we would stick them on the windows of the home or car. For tapes, they would come on DECtape (supplied by DEC with the reel); I don't think I've seen them much on 1/2 inch tape though they would work there, provided you have the shiny substrate rather than the matt (3M style) one. At DEC these things were known as LBT: "Little Blue Thing". paul From nf6x at nf6x.net Wed Aug 8 14:43:09 2018 From: nf6x at nf6x.net (Mark J. Blair) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 12:43:09 -0700 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2756F9B1-9FF0-49D9-B27E-1E67372F925C@nf6x.net> > On Aug 1, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > http://www.ctonlineauctions.com/detail.asp?id=746466 > > From the pictures it looks to be a fairly complete system with Kennedy tape drive. > Has a System industries controller but doesn't appear to have a disk drive. Looks like somebody got a good deal, with a closing price of $32. I hope the pickup goes smoothly this weekend. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From peter at vanpeborgh.eu Wed Aug 8 12:49:34 2018 From: peter at vanpeborgh.eu (Peter Van Peborgh) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:49:34 +0100 Subject: Historic IBM memory tech Message-ID: <04f201d42f40$2be976c0$83bc6440$@eu> Vintage techie guys and girls, Do any of you know where I could get hold of IBM 3850 Mass storage and IBM 2321 Data cell media? 1960s-1970s. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3850 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2321_Data_Cell If you do, I would like to get hold of one of each. Many thanks, Peter || | | | | | | | | Peter Van Peborgh 62 St Mary's Rise Writhlington Radstock Somerset BA3 3PD UK 01761 439 234 || | | | | | | | | From mcquiggi at me.com Wed Aug 8 13:02:13 2018 From: mcquiggi at me.com (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 11:02:13 -0700 Subject: Historic IBM memory tech In-Reply-To: <04f201d42f40$2be976c0$83bc6440$@eu> References: <04f201d42f40$2be976c0$83bc6440$@eu> Message-ID: <87EA9773-0C11-48B6-B864-EC6DCB31CE75@me.com> Hi Peter: You might try asking Paul Pierce in Portland Oregon. Just google ?Pierce Computer Collection?. He has dozens of historic IBM machines going back to a vacuum tube (valve) -based 704. Kevin Sent from my iPad > On Aug 8, 2018, at 10:49, Peter Van Peborgh via cctech wrote: > > Vintage techie guys and girls, > > Do any of you know where I could get hold of IBM 3850 Mass storage and IBM > 2321 Data cell media? 1960s-1970s. > > See: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3850 > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2321_Data_Cell > > If you do, I would like to get hold of one of each. > > Many thanks, > > Peter > || | | | | | | | | > Peter Van Peborgh > 62 St Mary's Rise > Writhlington Radstock > Somerset BA3 3PD > UK > 01761 439 234 > || | | | | | | | | > > From wayne.sudol at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 14:50:12 2018 From: wayne.sudol at hotmail.com (Wayne S) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 19:50:12 +0000 Subject: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca In-Reply-To: <2756F9B1-9FF0-49D9-B27E-1E67372F925C@nf6x.net> References: , <2756F9B1-9FF0-49D9-B27E-1E67372F925C@nf6x.net> Message-ID: Yep a real good deal. I asked a Los Angeles electronics auctioneer if they would rescue it to resell but didn?t hear back so I don?t think so, but it was short notice for them. The winning bidder?s moniker was ?Amberwind?. Hopefully they are a collector. It?s deflating to realize that this is the kind of system that I was waiting to be become available and then suddenly realize that I don?t have the room for it. The cost and location were all just right but ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of Mark J. Blair via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 12:43:09 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Pdp 11/34 System for sale in Riverside,ca > On Aug 1, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > http://www.ctonlineauctions.com/detail.asp?id=746466 > > From the pictures it looks to be a fairly complete system with Kennedy tape drive. > Has a System industries controller but doesn't appear to have a disk drive. Looks like somebody got a good deal, with a closing price of $32. I hope the pickup goes smoothly this weekend. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/ From rickb at bensene.com Wed Aug 8 21:13:31 2018 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 19:13:31 -0700 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue Message-ID: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> Through my Old Calculator Museum website, I have been contacted by a gentleman that has a fairly substantial Singer/Friden System 10 that is located in a building that the business wants to clear out. The computer system is slated to end up in a dumpster if it isn't rescued. The place the machine was stored is indoors, in an office-like space in a larger warehouse style building. The space was not temperature controlled, but there are no signs of water damage or serious corrosion. Some critters (probably mice) have been inside the cabinets of the system, but the contact said that there were no obvious signs that they chewed anything up. The system is very dusty (it was not covered), and it appears that some panels on the cabinets may have been removed, but are probably with the system. Some stuff appears to be partly disassembled. There also might be some spare parts, e.g., circuit boards. The system consists of a CPU, probably a Model 20, two Model 80 Display Terminals, a line printer of some sort, and two Mode 40 disk-pack (aka dishwasher-sized) disk drives. There are quite a few Model 41 disk packs there.. There also appears to be some documentation. There may also be some kind of magtape drive with the system, as there is a rack full of 7 or 9-track tapes hanging in it. Not sure if these are included with the system, though. Here is a link to some photos of the system: http://pail.bensene.com/Singer10 Beware that the web host does not have much upstream bandwidth, and the photos are pretty high resolution, so downloading them may take some time. Most of the photos are between 1.8 and 2.5 megabytes in size. there is some documentation on the Singer System Ten up on Bitsavers at http://bitsavers.org/pdf/singer/systemTen . Some of the documentation there is for the equipment that is available. These systems aren't very common, and there likely aren't all that many of them left in existence. Singer sold a lot of these systems into retail outlets as part of one of the first online Point-of-Sale systems. One notable account was Sears and Roebuck, who installed a huge networked (via Modem) environment using System Ten machines in stores to run Point-of-Sale systems, with modem links to larger systems that collected the information, and usually fed it to even larger systems (e.g., IBM mainframe) for inventory management, bookkeeping, and other large corporate-level reporting/management systems. However, the system aged quickly, as other competitors came onto the Point-of-Sale scene very quickly, with systems that were less expensive, more reliable, and more easily maintained. Many of the Singer systems in large retailers were replaced within a few years of being put into service. There was little market for "used" systems, so most all of them taken out of service went for scrap. The System 10 CPU was pretty unique in that it had "hardware"-based timesharing. The system managed time-slicing between "partitions" in main memory (magnetic core) with hardware that provided a fixed timeslice to each partition, switching to the next either when the time-slice ran out, or certain instructions (e.g., I/O) were executed that would trigger an immediate context switch. The system had hardware protection for the partitions to isolate the partitions from each other, allowing them to run independently. There was a shared and a read-only system partition which could facilitate inter-partition communications and management functions. Pretty cool for a design done in the late '60's. It'd be a real shame for this system to end up in the trash, which is exactly where it will go if a home can't be found for it relatively soon (e.g., next couple of weeks). The system is located in West Chicago, IL. It's all pretty sizable, so, you'd probably need a small commercial-style moving van with a lift-gate (the stuff is likely quite heavy, especially the disk drives) to haul it. You would also probably need a heavy-duty hand-truck or two, and some strong straps. You'd need some muscle, too. I suspect it'd be more than a 1-man job. My contact wants it out of there. You just have to come get it and haul it away. If you have any serious interest in rescuing this system, drop me an Email, and I'll put you in touch with my contact. Hopefully someone out there can give this machine a new home. Email: rickb .at. bensene .dot. com Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 8 21:35:20 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 19:35:20 -0700 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: <480d6528-a54e-02f1-0320-8ba34a16f6e8@bitsavers.org> On 8/8/18 7:13 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > Singer sold a lot of these systems into > retail outlets as part of one of the first online Point-of-Sale systems. > One notable account was Sears and Roebuck I sure remember those terminals in Sears stores https://www.jpnearl.com/geek/s-l1600.jpg had a heck of a time finding a picture of one. From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 8 21:41:03 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 19:41:03 -0700 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: <480d6528-a54e-02f1-0320-8ba34a16f6e8@bitsavers.org> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> <480d6528-a54e-02f1-0320-8ba34a16f6e8@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <3e5da48b-0ea2-82df-fdc6-42ff4ff13639@bitsavers.org> http://blog.jpnearl.com/?p=10197 On 8/8/18 7:35 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 8/8/18 7:13 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: >> Singer sold a lot of these systems into >> retail outlets as part of one of the first online Point-of-Sale systems. >> One notable account was Sears and Roebuck > > I sure remember those terminals in Sears stores > https://www.jpnearl.com/geek/s-l1600.jpg > > had a heck of a time finding a picture of one. > > From silent700 at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 23:39:20 2018 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 23:39:20 -0500 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: While I'm not claiming the system, I've let Rick know that I'm close to it and willing to help facilitate a rescue of at least some of the lot. From pontus at Update.UU.SE Thu Aug 9 02:37:22 2018 From: pontus at Update.UU.SE (Pontus Pihlgren) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 09:37:22 +0200 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: <20180809073721.GK11048@Update.UU.SE> I've made a temporary mirror here: http://www.update.uu.se/~pontus/slask/Singer10/ I even tried to rotate some of the photos. I believe this is the system that Singer sued DEC over the name DECsystem-10. Perhaps LCM wants it for that reason :) /P On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 07:13:31PM -0700, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > Through my Old Calculator Museum website, I have been contacted by a > gentleman that has a fairly substantial Singer/Friden > System 10 that is located in a building that the business wants to clear > out. > > The computer system is slated to end up in a dumpster if it isn't > rescued. > > The place the machine was stored is indoors, in an office-like space in > a larger warehouse style building. The space was not temperature > controlled, but there are no signs of water damage or serious corrosion. > Some critters (probably mice) have been inside the cabinets of the > system, but the contact said that there were no obvious signs that they > chewed anything up. The system is very dusty (it was not covered), and > it appears that some panels on the cabinets may have been removed, but > are probably with the system. > Some stuff appears to be partly disassembled. There also might be some > spare parts, e.g., circuit boards. > > The system consists of a CPU, probably a Model 20, two Model 80 Display > Terminals, a line printer of some sort, and two Mode 40 disk-pack (aka > dishwasher-sized) disk drives. There are quite a few Model 41 disk > packs there.. There also appears to be some documentation. There may > also be some kind of magtape drive with the system, as there is a rack > full of 7 or 9-track tapes hanging in it. Not sure if these are > included with the system, though. > > Here is a link to some photos of the system: > > http://pail.bensene.com/Singer10 > > Beware that the web host does not have much upstream bandwidth, and the > photos are pretty high resolution, so downloading them may take some > time. Most of the photos are between 1.8 and 2.5 megabytes in size. > > there is some documentation on the Singer System Ten up on Bitsavers at > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/singer/systemTen . Some of the documentation > there is for the equipment that is available. > > These systems aren't very common, and there likely aren't all that many > of them left in existence. Singer sold a lot of these systems into > retail outlets as part of one of the first online Point-of-Sale systems. > One notable account was Sears and Roebuck, who installed a huge > networked (via Modem) environment using System Ten machines in stores to > run Point-of-Sale systems, with modem links to larger systems that > collected the information, and usually fed it to even larger systems > (e.g., IBM mainframe) for inventory management, bookkeeping, and other > large corporate-level reporting/management systems. However, the > system aged quickly, as other competitors came onto the Point-of-Sale > scene very quickly, with systems that were less expensive, more > reliable, and more easily maintained. Many of the Singer systems in > large retailers were replaced within a few years of being put into > service. There was little market for "used" systems, so most all of > them taken out of service went for scrap. > > The System 10 CPU was pretty unique in that it had "hardware"-based > timesharing. The system managed time-slicing between "partitions" in > main memory (magnetic core) with hardware that provided a fixed > timeslice to each partition, switching to the next either when the > time-slice ran out, or certain instructions (e.g., I/O) were executed > that would trigger an immediate context switch. The system had hardware > protection for the partitions to isolate the partitions from each other, > allowing them to run independently. There was a shared and a read-only > system partition which could facilitate inter-partition communications > and management functions. > Pretty cool for a design done in the late '60's. > > It'd be a real shame for this system to end up in the trash, which is > exactly where it will go if a home can't be found for it relatively soon > (e.g., next couple of weeks). > > The system is located in West Chicago, IL. > > It's all pretty sizable, so, you'd probably need a small > commercial-style moving van with a lift-gate (the stuff is likely quite > heavy, especially the disk drives) to haul it. You would also probably > need a heavy-duty hand-truck or two, and some strong straps. You'd > need some muscle, too. I suspect it'd be more than a 1-man job. > > My contact wants it out of there. You just have to come get it and > haul it away. > > If you have any serious interest in rescuing this system, drop me an > Email, and I'll put you in touch with my contact. > > Hopefully someone out there can give this machine a new home. > Email: rickb .at. bensene .dot. com > > > Rick Bensene > The Old Calculator Museum > http://oldcalculatormuseum.com > > > From useddec at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 03:57:06 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 03:57:06 -0500 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: Hi Rick, I'm 2 or 3 hours from there, have have had too mary back surgeries and replacement parts to help a lot, but depending on timing i might be able to help some. It's possible I could even drive a truckload out east. We are thinking of going out in Oct if you find a home out there. Keep me in the loop. Who knows, if someone picks up the expenses, we could go earlier or maybe out west. Thanks, Paul On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Through my Old Calculator Museum website, I have been contacted by a > gentleman that has a fairly substantial Singer/Friden > System 10 that is located in a building that the business wants to clear > out. > > The computer system is slated to end up in a dumpster if it isn't > rescued. > > The place the machine was stored is indoors, in an office-like space in > a larger warehouse style building. The space was not temperature > controlled, but there are no signs of water damage or serious corrosion. > Some critters (probably mice) have been inside the cabinets of the > system, but the contact said that there were no obvious signs that they > chewed anything up. The system is very dusty (it was not covered), and > it appears that some panels on the cabinets may have been removed, but > are probably with the system. > Some stuff appears to be partly disassembled. There also might be some > spare parts, e.g., circuit boards. > > The system consists of a CPU, probably a Model 20, two Model 80 Display > Terminals, a line printer of some sort, and two Mode 40 disk-pack (aka > dishwasher-sized) disk drives. There are quite a few Model 41 disk > packs there.. There also appears to be some documentation. There may > also be some kind of magtape drive with the system, as there is a rack > full of 7 or 9-track tapes hanging in it. Not sure if these are > included with the system, though. > > Here is a link to some photos of the system: > > http://pail.bensene.com/Singer10 > > Beware that the web host does not have much upstream bandwidth, and the > photos are pretty high resolution, so downloading them may take some > time. Most of the photos are between 1.8 and 2.5 megabytes in size. > > there is some documentation on the Singer System Ten up on Bitsavers at > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/singer/systemTen . Some of the documentation > there is for the equipment that is available. > > These systems aren't very common, and there likely aren't all that many > of them left in existence. Singer sold a lot of these systems into > retail outlets as part of one of the first online Point-of-Sale systems. > One notable account was Sears and Roebuck, who installed a huge > networked (via Modem) environment using System Ten machines in stores to > run Point-of-Sale systems, with modem links to larger systems that > collected the information, and usually fed it to even larger systems > (e.g., IBM mainframe) for inventory management, bookkeeping, and other > large corporate-level reporting/management systems. However, the > system aged quickly, as other competitors came onto the Point-of-Sale > scene very quickly, with systems that were less expensive, more > reliable, and more easily maintained. Many of the Singer systems in > large retailers were replaced within a few years of being put into > service. There was little market for "used" systems, so most all of > them taken out of service went for scrap. > > The System 10 CPU was pretty unique in that it had "hardware"-based > timesharing. The system managed time-slicing between "partitions" in > main memory (magnetic core) with hardware that provided a fixed > timeslice to each partition, switching to the next either when the > time-slice ran out, or certain instructions (e.g., I/O) were executed > that would trigger an immediate context switch. The system had hardware > protection for the partitions to isolate the partitions from each other, > allowing them to run independently. There was a shared and a read-only > system partition which could facilitate inter-partition communications > and management functions. > Pretty cool for a design done in the late '60's. > > It'd be a real shame for this system to end up in the trash, which is > exactly where it will go if a home can't be found for it relatively soon > (e.g., next couple of weeks). > > The system is located in West Chicago, IL. > > It's all pretty sizable, so, you'd probably need a small > commercial-style moving van with a lift-gate (the stuff is likely quite > heavy, especially the disk drives) to haul it. You would also probably > need a heavy-duty hand-truck or two, and some strong straps. You'd > need some muscle, too. I suspect it'd be more than a 1-man job. > > My contact wants it out of there. You just have to come get it and > haul it away. > > If you have any serious interest in rescuing this system, drop me an > Email, and I'll put you in touch with my contact. > > Hopefully someone out there can give this machine a new home. > Email: rickb .at. bensene .dot. com > > > Rick Bensene > The Old Calculator Museum > http://oldcalculatormuseum.com > > > > From tshoppa at wmata.com Thu Aug 9 08:28:37 2018 From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 13:28:37 +0000 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue Message-ID: I had been told for decades that there was a flight simulator that used a Singer System Ten and that United Airlines operated it outside Chicago for some unreasonably long time. This was "Urban Legend you wouldn't believe it but that's what the bosses wanted" stuff back in the 1990's. Using a business computer (especially one that looked like an overgrown Frieden calculators from the 1960's) to run a flight simulator always seemed odd to me, to the point of making the story not quite believable. Other Singer-Link flight simulators that I knew of, used GP4's or Sigma-5's and then the Sigma-5 clones. Tim N3QE From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Thu Aug 9 14:48:26 2018 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 13:48:26 -0600 Subject: Clock batteries... In-Reply-To: <14BA85A8-CE53-4F66-B8D4-CF935325B182@icloud.com> References: <14BA85A8-CE53-4F66-B8D4-CF935325B182@icloud.com> Message-ID: Thank you for the very detailed reply Greg. I greatly appreciate it and will be re-reading it to assimilate the information you shared. -- Grant. . . . unix || die From jsw at ieee.org Thu Aug 9 17:25:51 2018 From: jsw at ieee.org (Jerry Weiss) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 17:25:51 -0500 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: On 8/8/18 11:39 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > While I'm not claiming the system, I've let Rick know that I'm close > to it and willing to help facilitate a rescue of at least some of the > lot. Hi, I don't have a personal interest in the system, but if you need another hand to help with the hauling drop me a line.. Regards, Jerry jsw at ieee.org From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 19:14:54 2018 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Tsacas?=) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 02:14:54 +0200 Subject: ssh to tweenex.org Message-ID: Hi, Did anyone manage to connect to tweenex,org through ssh now that telnet port is closed ? I received an mail that says : TELNET access to twenex.org has been changed to only support SSH via the SSH passthru user twenex at sdf.org. without saying which password should be used ... Thanks -- ??phane tsacas From w2hx at w2hx.com Thu Aug 9 20:39:57 2018 From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 01:39:57 +0000 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? Message-ID: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 Zeichenl?nge: 7 bit (mit Sperrschritt) Parity: gerade L?nge Sperrschritt: 1 bit Google says: Operating mode: Asynchronous 16 Character length: 7 bit (with blocking step) Parity: straight Length of blocking step: 1 bit First, anyone have any idea what Asynchronous 16 means? (async I get, but "16"?) 7 bit with blocking step. Could this mean 7 bit with stop bit? Parity: straight. Could this mean odd or even? Length of blocking step. Could this be number of stop bits? I am attempting to translate some pages in this manual and would like to get this right (for others who may find this info useful). Thank you!!! (or should I say Danke?!) 73 Eugene W2HX PS. This is for an HF antenna coupler that can be controlled over a serial port. From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Thu Aug 9 21:26:53 2018 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 02:26:53 +0000 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> Message-ID: On 08/09/2018 09:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: > > Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 > Zeichenl?nge: 7 bit (mit Sperrschritt) > Parity: gerade > L?nge Sperrschritt: 1 bit > > Google says: > Operating mode: Asynchronous 16 > Character length: 7 bit (with blocking step) > Parity: straight > Length of blocking step: 1 bit > > First, anyone have any idea what Asynchronous 16 means? (async I get, but "16"?) > 7 bit with blocking step. Could this mean 7 bit with stop bit? > Parity: straight. Could this mean odd or even? > Length of blocking step. Could this be number of stop bits? > > I don't know what they mean by Asynchron 16 but the rest ins quite normal. For Parity "gerade" means even. "Sperrschritt" is Stop Bits. So you have: ? 7 bit ? even parity ? one stop bit. It's possible that the 16 refers to baud rate.? Is there a table of any kind in the manual?? Is it big?? Could you provide a scan? bill? KB3YV (formerly DA1WO) From rp at servium.ch Fri Aug 10 00:21:13 2018 From: rp at servium.ch (Rico Pajarola) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 00:21:13 -0500 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> Message-ID: Sperrschritt is the stop bit, for the rest Google translate did quite well ;) Operations mode: Asynchronous 16 Character length: 7 bit (with stop bit) Parity: even stop bit length: 1 bit I have no idea what Asynchronous 16 could be, maybe a hint at the higher level protocol? On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial > port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the > warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: > > Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 > Zeichenl?nge: 7 bit (mit Sperrschritt) > Parity: gerade > L?nge Sperrschritt: 1 bit > > Google says: > Operating mode: Asynchronous 16 > Character length: 7 bit (with blocking step) > Parity: straight > Length of blocking step: 1 bit > > First, anyone have any idea what Asynchronous 16 means? (async I get, but > "16"?) > 7 bit with blocking step. Could this mean 7 bit with stop bit? > Parity: straight. Could this mean odd or even? > Length of blocking step. Could this be number of stop bits? > > I am attempting to translate some pages in this manual and would like to > get this right (for others who may find this info useful). > > Thank you!!! (or should I say Danke?!) > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > PS. This is for an HF antenna coupler that can be controlled over a serial > port. > > From abuse at cabal.org.uk Fri Aug 10 07:09:47 2018 From: abuse at cabal.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:09:47 +0200 Subject: ssh to tweenex.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180810120946.zfobhyceqhg6bkdi@mooli.org.uk> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 02:14:54AM +0200, St?phane Tsacas via cctalk wrote: > Did anyone manage to connect to tweenex,org through ssh now that telnet > port is closed ? > I received an mail that says : > TELNET access to twenex.org has been changed to only support SSH via the > SSH passthru user twenex at sdf.org. I can connect to that just fine with the standard OpenSSH client: abuse at panda:~$ ssh twenex at sdf.org Trying 205.166.94.130... Connected to 205.166.94.130. Escape character is 'off'. TWENEX.ORG, PANDA TOPS-20 Monitor 7.1(21733)-4 If new, type 'new new' .. @ > without saying which password should be used ... You don't need a password, at least not for the ssh session. From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Fri Aug 10 07:36:51 2018 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:36:51 +0200 Subject: Looking for Unisoft Unix for Colex systems Message-ID: Unlikely, I know, but i am looking for Unisoft UNIX fo a COLEX system I have a Colex 850 CP/M system, with a lose STD-68000 card and some more memory cards. This should support the Unisoft UNIX that once was available for this system. Anyone has a copy of this Unisoft version ? Jos From john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net Fri Aug 10 08:11:28 2018 From: john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net (John Many Jars) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:11:28 +0100 Subject: BBS for RSTS Message-ID: I'm sure it's been years since I've darkened anyone's door around here. I still have this idea that someone should write a proper BBS system (and run it) for RSTS... ...the age old problem is getting data in and out of it to connect it to the world... or one of the problems anyhow. Maybe using a telnet connection to a terminal device and some sort of homebrew message queueing system to an outside helper. Hmmm. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Aug 10 08:19:20 2018 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (geneb) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 06:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BBS for RSTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2018, John Many Jars via cctalk wrote: > I'm sure it's been years since I've darkened anyone's door around here. > > I still have this idea that someone should write a proper BBS system (and > run it) for RSTS... > > ...the age old problem is getting data in and out of it to connect it to > the world... or one of the problems anyhow. Maybe using a telnet > connection to a terminal device and some sort of homebrew message queueing > system to an outside helper. > The serial to telnet bridge is a solved issue. :) I'd be happy to help, but I don't know /anything/ about RSTS. FYI, one of the cheaper ways to do the interface is to use a null modem cable, a Raspberry Pi, and a copy of tcpser. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Aug 10 08:22:22 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:22:22 -0400 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> Message-ID: <9349E213-7FA8-434A-A6AB-A5554533456B@comcast.net> > On Aug 9, 2018, at 9:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > > Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: > > Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 > Zeichenl?nge: 7 bit (mit Sperrschritt) > Parity: gerade > L?nge Sperrschritt: 1 bit > > Google says: > Operating mode: Asynchronous 16 > Character length: 7 bit (with blocking step) > Parity: straight > Length of blocking step: 1 bit > > First, anyone have any idea what Asynchronous 16 means? (async I get, but "16"?) > 7 bit with blocking step. Could this mean 7 bit with stop bit? > Parity: straight. Could this mean odd or even? > Length of blocking step. Could this be number of stop bits? Yes, stop bit, one bit long. Even parity. No idea about the 16. paul From imp at bsdimp.com Fri Aug 10 09:14:26 2018 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 08:14:26 -0600 Subject: ssh to tweenex.org In-Reply-To: <20180810120946.zfobhyceqhg6bkdi@mooli.org.uk> References: <20180810120946.zfobhyceqhg6bkdi@mooli.org.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 6:09 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 02:14:54AM +0200, St?phane Tsacas via cctalk wrote: > > Did anyone manage to connect to tweenex,org through ssh now that telnet > > port is closed ? > > I received an mail that says : > > TELNET access to twenex.org has been changed to only support SSH via the > > SSH passthru user twenex at sdf.org. > > I can connect to that just fine with the standard OpenSSH client: > > abuse at panda:~$ ssh twenex at sdf.org > Trying 205.166.94.130... > Connected to 205.166.94.130. > Escape character is 'off'. > > TWENEX.ORG, PANDA TOPS-20 Monitor 7.1(21733)-4 > > If new, type 'new new' .. > > @ > > > without saying which password should be used ... > > You don't need a password, at least not for the ssh session > % ssh -v twenex at sdf.org OpenSSH_7.7p1, OpenSSL 1.0.2o-freebsd 27 Mar 2018 debug1: Reading configuration data /home/imp/.ssh/config debug1: /home/imp/.ssh/config line 47: Applying options for * debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Connecting to sdf.org [205.166.94.16] port 22. debug1: connect to address 205.166.94.16 port 22: Network is unreachable ssh: connect to host sdf.org port 22: Network is unreachable % I wonder why I get a different IP address? Warner From w2hx at w2hx.com Fri Aug 10 09:13:15 2018 From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:13:15 +0000 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: <9349E213-7FA8-434A-A6AB-A5554533456B@comcast.net> References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM>, <9349E213-7FA8-434A-A6AB-A5554533456B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1533910396460.20196@w2hx.com> thanks everyone! ________________________________________ From: Paul Koning Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:22 AM To: W2HX; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: German Translation, Serial Port? > On Aug 9, 2018, at 9:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > > Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: > > Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 > Zeichenl?nge: 7 bit (mit Sperrschritt) > Parity: gerade > L?nge Sperrschritt: 1 bit > > Google says: > Operating mode: Asynchronous 16 > Character length: 7 bit (with blocking step) > Parity: straight > Length of blocking step: 1 bit > > First, anyone have any idea what Asynchronous 16 means? (async I get, but "16"?) > 7 bit with blocking step. Could this mean 7 bit with stop bit? > Parity: straight. Could this mean odd or even? > Length of blocking step. Could this be number of stop bits? Yes, stop bit, one bit long. Even parity. No idea about the 16. paul From donald at donaldwhittemore.com Fri Aug 10 08:14:50 2018 From: donald at donaldwhittemore.com (Donald) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 06:14:50 -0700 Subject: Historic IBM memory tech Message-ID: I assume you have a standard search set up on eBay? That is where I got mine. From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Fri Aug 10 09:31:42 2018 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:31:42 +0000 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: <1533910396460.20196@w2hx.com> References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> <9349E213-7FA8-434A-A6AB-A5554533456B@comcast.net> <1533910396460.20196@w2hx.com> Message-ID: Did the freighter come with it or do you have to buy your own to use it?? :-) bill On 08/10/2018 10:13 AM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > thanks everyone! > ________________________________________ > From: Paul Koning > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:22 AM > To: W2HX; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: German Translation, Serial Port? > >> On Aug 9, 2018, at 9:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: >> >> Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: >> >> Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 >> Zeichenl?nge: 7 bit (mit Sperrschritt) >> Parity: gerade >> L?nge Sperrschritt: 1 bit >> >> Google says: >> Operating mode: Asynchronous 16 >> Character length: 7 bit (with blocking step) >> Parity: straight >> Length of blocking step: 1 bit >> >> First, anyone have any idea what Asynchronous 16 means? (async I get, but "16"?) >> 7 bit with blocking step. Could this mean 7 bit with stop bit? >> Parity: straight. Could this mean odd or even? >> Length of blocking step. Could this be number of stop bits? > Yes, stop bit, one bit long. Even parity. No idea about the 16. > > paul > From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Aug 10 09:37:33 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 07:37:33 -0700 Subject: Looking for Unisoft Unix for Colex systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: funky.. I have the code for the VME version that used an 80186 running DOS for an I/O processor Been watching for another one for 30 years, since I never dumped the firmware from the 186. Does the 68K card have a 68451 on it? On 8/10/18 5:36 AM, jos via cctalk wrote: > > Unlikely, I know, but i am looking for Unisoft UNIX fo a COLEX system > > > I have a Colex 850 CP/M system, with a lose STD-68000 card and some more memory cards. > This should support the Unisoft UNIX that once was available for this system. > > Anyone has a copy of this Unisoft version ? > > > Jos > > From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Aug 10 10:12:22 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 11:12:22 -0400 Subject: ssh to tweenex.org In-Reply-To: References: <20180810120946.zfobhyceqhg6bkdi@mooli.org.uk> Message-ID: <411355BE-0489-4056-B31C-22E60A17476C@comcast.net> > On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 6:09 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 02:14:54AM +0200, St?phane Tsacas via cctalk wrote: >>> Did anyone manage to connect to tweenex,org through ssh now that telnet >>> port is closed ? >>> I received an mail that says : >>> TELNET access to twenex.org has been changed to only support SSH via the >>> SSH passthru user twenex at sdf.org. >> >> I can connect to that just fine with the standard OpenSSH client: >> >> abuse at panda:~$ ssh twenex at sdf.org >> Trying 205.166.94.130... >> Connected to 205.166.94.130. >> Escape character is 'off'. >> >> TWENEX.ORG, PANDA TOPS-20 Monitor 7.1(21733)-4 >> >> If new, type 'new new' .. >> >> @ >> >>> without saying which password should be used ... >> >> You don't need a password, at least not for the ssh session >> > > > % ssh -v twenex at sdf.org > OpenSSH_7.7p1, OpenSSL 1.0.2o-freebsd 27 Mar 2018 > debug1: Reading configuration data /home/imp/.ssh/config > debug1: /home/imp/.ssh/config line 47: Applying options for * > debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config > debug1: Connecting to sdf.org [205.166.94.16] port 22. > debug1: connect to address 205.166.94.16 port 22: Network is unreachable > ssh: connect to host sdf.org port 22: Network is unreachable > % > > I wonder why I get a different IP address? Interesting. I get the same address as you do. I double checked with some other DNS servers -- 8.8.8.8 is an easy one to remember and reliably reachable. They all show the .16 address. But I can connect just fine, so it seems that you have a connectivity issue somewhere on the path. Traceroute to the rescue? paul From mhs.stein at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 11:30:04 2018 From: mhs.stein at gmail.com (Mike Stein) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:30:04 -0400 Subject: Looking for Unisoft Unix for Colex systems References: Message-ID: Probably irrelevant here but there were several versions of UNIX for S100 Cromemco Systems using a 68010 or 68020; FWIW, memory management was done on a separate card. They also had Cromix, a UNIX look-alike, for both Z80 and 68000 systems. m ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow via cctalk" To: Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Looking for Unisoft Unix for Colex systems > funky.. > > I have the code for the VME version that used an 80186 running DOS for an I/O processor > Been watching for another one for 30 years, since I never dumped the firmware from the 186. > > Does the 68K card have a 68451 on it? > > > On 8/10/18 5:36 AM, jos via cctalk wrote: >> >> Unlikely, I know, but i am looking for Unisoft UNIX fo a COLEX system >> >> >> I have a Colex 850 CP/M system, with a lose STD-68000 card and some more memory cards. >> This should support the Unisoft UNIX that once was available for this system. >> >> Anyone has a copy of this Unisoft version ? >> >> >> Jos >> >> > From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Fri Aug 10 11:50:40 2018 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 18:50:40 +0200 Subject: Looking for Unisoft Unix for Colex systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10.08.2018 16:37, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > funky.. > > I have the code for the VME version that used an 80186 running DOS for an I/O processor > Been watching for another one for 30 years, since I never dumped the firmware from the 186. > > Does the 68K card have a 68451 on it? > No, it is just a 8MHz MC68K, 2 PALs to somehow kludge the 68K to the STD bus, and a 2732 marked "Unix". PCB pics on ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Colex I also added a straight binary dump of the 10MB MFM disk that is part of my system, but that is a cp/m 3.0 system as it stands. That does contain source code for the Colex 820/850 system bios. Very few Colex system still around it seems, but if someone needs that as separate files then I should be able to oblige. Jos From spacewar at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 12:47:53 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 11:47:53 -0600 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 08/09/2018 09:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > > Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing > serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give > me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: > > > > Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 > Possibly they are referring to a UART that internally uses 16x oversampling, which is quite common, but that information is not normally needed in a description of communication parameters. From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Aug 10 14:03:05 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:03:05 -0700 Subject: Looking for Unisoft Unix for Colex systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59bcd54e-9a80-fb73-4ee3-700d9e97d95d@bitsavers.org> Colex US was based in Redwood City. I got a bunch of their VME systems cheap when they shut down in 1985 that we used for development at AED. I think they were based in Taiwan On 8/10/18 9:50 AM, jos via cctalk wrote: > No, it is just a 8MHz MC68K, 2 PALs to somehow kludge the 68K to the STD bus, and a 2732 marked "Unix". > From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Fri Aug 10 14:25:23 2018 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 19:25:23 +0000 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> Message-ID: On 08/10/2018 01:47 PM, Eric Smith wrote: On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: On 08/09/2018 09:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: > > Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 Possibly they are referring to a UART that internally uses 16x oversampling, which is quite common, but that information is not normally needed in a description of communication parameters. OK, Having read the manual on the antenna tuner and done some research I have found that there is a box that connects to the tuner and and a terminal. My guess is that "Asynchron 16" refers to some proprietary hardware/communications protocol used between the antenna tuner and the GX007 control unit. Considering the function of the unit, I expect the distance between the tuner and any terminal would have exceeded RS-232 and the environment could easily be too harsh for RS-232 as well (think static electricity and even lightening!!) An interesting device at any rate. Wish I had one. :-) bill From w2hx at w2hx.com Fri Aug 10 15:07:24 2018 From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:07:24 +0000 Subject: German Translation, Serial Port? In-Reply-To: References: <91dcca51db0a4921b39e7fbdfdd3c19d@EXBE015SV3.NA02.MSEXCHANGEOUTLOOK.COM> , Message-ID: <1533931644291.60598@w2hx.com> in case anyone is interested...Actually the coupler does communicate with the GX007 but only optionally. The serial control simply loops through from the coupler to the GX unit and right to a serial terminal (my understanding from various docs I have gathered on the subject). The TX/RX lines just loop directly in and then back out of the GX to the DB25 serial port. I agree, however, that the length could easily exceed the specs for RS232. In fact I had expected this system to use some differential signalling like RS422/485 and was surprised that it did not seem to. The serial communication is actually optional. There are about 26 lines (4 power, 3 serial comm and about 19 others) used to either configure or report status. Personally I would prefer to use the serial control to avoid running 26 lines from the shack to the antenna site. Ultimately, this coupler only needs 26VDC @ 6A and nothing else. It will work totally automatically (when set to work that way). But it is nice to get temperature and other details from the status messages. http://w2hx.com/x/RohdeSchwarz/ebay%20pix/s-l500%20(7).jpg ________________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of Bill Gunshannon via cctalk Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 3:25 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: German Translation, Serial Port? On 08/10/2018 01:47 PM, Eric Smith wrote: On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: On 08/09/2018 09:39 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > Hello friends. I need a translation from a German manual describing serial port parameters. I used google translate but it doesn't quite give me the warm and fuzzy. Anyone here speak German? Here is what it says: > > Betriebsart: Asynchron 16 Possibly they are referring to a UART that internally uses 16x oversampling, which is quite common, but that information is not normally needed in a description of communication parameters. OK, Having read the manual on the antenna tuner and done some research I have found that there is a box that connects to the tuner and and a terminal. My guess is that "Asynchron 16" refers to some proprietary hardware/communications protocol used between the antenna tuner and the GX007 control unit. Considering the function of the unit, I expect the distance between the tuner and any terminal would have exceeded RS-232 and the environment could easily be too harsh for RS-232 as well (think static electricity and even lightening!!) An interesting device at any rate. Wish I had one. :-) bill From steven at malikoff.com Fri Aug 10 18:03:26 2018 From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 09:03:26 +1000 Subject: Model 40 TROS sheet wanted was Re: Historic IBM memory tech In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64da1004eb4340920b067a65f9ef6b32.squirrel@webmail04.register.com> Donald said > I assume you have a standard search set up on eBay? That is where I got mine. > I've had an eBay search on looking for a /40 TROS mylar sheet for years, but so far have not lucked onto any (by comparison /50 BCROS seems to be much more common). Still looking, if anyone had a spare, would rather buy but I might be able to trade something. Steve. From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 21:16:22 2018 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Tsacas?=) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 04:16:22 +0200 Subject: ssh to tweenex.org In-Reply-To: <411355BE-0489-4056-B31C-22E60A17476C@comcast.net> References: <20180810120946.zfobhyceqhg6bkdi@mooli.org.uk> <411355BE-0489-4056-B31C-22E60A17476C@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thank you for all the answers. It seems that waiting a day or so solved the problem, and now ssh doesn't ask for tweenex password and act like a pass thru, as documented. One explanation why we see 2 adresses might be because the first one is the proxy/pass thru server, and the second one the host : ssh -v twenex at sdf.org OpenSSH_7.7p1, OpenSSL 1.0.2o 27 Mar 2018 debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh_config debug1: Connecting to sdf.org [205.166.94.16] port 22. // proxy (pass thru) server ... Authenticated to sdf.org ([205.166.94.16]:22). debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] debug1: Requesting no-more-sessions at openssh.com debug1: Entering interactive session. debug1: pledge: network debug1: client_input_global_request: rtype hostkeys-00 at openssh.com want_reply 0 Trying 205.166.94.130... Connected to 205.166.94.130. // host address Escape character is 'off'. TWENEX.ORG, PANDA TOPS-20 Monitor 7.1(21733)-4 Le ven. 10 ao?t 2018 ? 17:13, Paul Koning via cctalk a ?crit : > > > > On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 6:09 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 02:14:54AM +0200, St?phane Tsacas via cctalk > wrote: > >>> Did anyone manage to connect to tweenex,org through ssh now that telnet > >>> port is closed ? > >>> I received an mail that says : > >>> TELNET access to twenex.org has been changed to only support SSH via > the > >>> SSH passthru user twenex at sdf.org. > >> > >> I can connect to that just fine with the standard OpenSSH client: > >> > >> abuse at panda:~$ ssh twenex at sdf.org > >> Trying 205.166.94.130... > >> Connected to 205.166.94.130. > >> Escape character is 'off'. > >> > >> TWENEX.ORG, PANDA TOPS-20 Monitor 7.1(21733)-4 > >> > >> If new, type 'new new' .. > >> > >> @ > >> > >>> without saying which password should be used ... > >> > >> You don't need a password, at least not for the ssh session > >> > > > > > > % ssh -v twenex at sdf.org > > OpenSSH_7.7p1, OpenSSL 1.0.2o-freebsd 27 Mar 2018 > > debug1: Reading configuration data /home/imp/.ssh/config > > debug1: /home/imp/.ssh/config line 47: Applying options for * > > debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config > > debug1: Connecting to sdf.org [205.166.94.16] port 22. > > debug1: connect to address 205.166.94.16 port 22: Network is unreachable > > ssh: connect to host sdf.org port 22: Network is unreachable > > % > > > > I wonder why I get a different IP address? > > Interesting. I get the same address as you do. I double checked with > some other DNS servers -- 8.8.8.8 is an easy one to remember and reliably > reachable. They all show the .16 address. > > But I can connect just fine, so it seems that you have a connectivity > issue somewhere on the path. Traceroute to the rescue? > > paul > > > -- ??phane tsacas From useddec at gmail.com Sat Aug 11 01:52:31 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 01:52:31 -0500 Subject: More DEC CPUs/motherboards/mem Message-ID: Trying to clear off more shelves. I have one of each of the following. I hope the descriptions are right. B2021-FA AlphaServer 2100 128MB B3005-AA 4100 54-19463-01 3100 KN01 54-22703 443 motherboard 54-23600 Prioris HX ME Please contact me offline if you have any questions or interest. I have a lot of 3100, 5000, and 3000 boxes and more parts to go through yet. Thanks, Paul From derschjo at gmail.com Sat Aug 11 18:56:21 2018 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 16:56:21 -0700 Subject: ISO: Scan of IASIS ia-7301 ("Computer In A Book") manual / text Message-ID: Hi all -- I picked up a nice IASIS ia-7301 (see: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=544&) recently. It came with the binder and the computer but none of the paper bits. Does anyone have the manual scanned (or is there anyone who might have a copy to scan)? I'd like to print a copy to put in there. My searches on the 'net have come up empty. Thanks as always, Josh From santo.nucifora at gmail.com Sat Aug 11 20:29:44 2018 From: santo.nucifora at gmail.com (Santo Nucifora) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 21:29:44 -0400 Subject: ISO: Scan of IASIS ia-7301 ("Computer In A Book") manual / text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been looking to recreate a binder also as I have an IASIS ia-7301 as well. If you find it, please let me know as well. Thanks and good luck. On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 7:56 PM Josh Dersch via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi all -- > > I picked up a nice IASIS ia-7301 (see: > http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=544&) recently. It > came > with the binder and the computer but none of the paper bits. Does anyone > have the manual scanned (or is there anyone who might have a copy to > scan)? I'd like to print a copy to put in there. My searches on the 'net > have come up empty. > > Thanks as always, > Josh > From mattislind at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 04:07:53 2018 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 11:07:53 +0200 Subject: Oliverti Te300 teleprinter manuals? Message-ID: Does anyone have any type of manuals for the Olivetti Te300 teleprinters? Preferebly maintenance manuals or similar. https://vads.ac.uk/diad/bres/pub/COID/231/32.jpg From pbirkel at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 05:51:33 2018 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 06:51:33 -0400 Subject: Centronics 101A manuals? Message-ID: <00d501d4322a$6fb47660$4f1d6320$@gmail.com> Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the Centronics 101A impact printer? All that I've found thus far is marketing literature. Not even an owner's manual. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind via cctalk Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 5:08 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Oliverti Te300 teleprinter manuals? Does anyone have any type of manuals for the Olivetti Te300 teleprinters? Preferebly maintenance manuals or similar. https://vads.ac.uk/diad/bres/pub/COID/231/32.jpg From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Aug 12 09:08:46 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 07:08:46 -0700 Subject: Centronics 101A manuals? In-Reply-To: <00d501d4322a$6fb47660$4f1d6320$@gmail.com> References: <00d501d4322a$6fb47660$4f1d6320$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <08a9e602-53bb-f54f-d40f-cb7fe67c0b79@bitsavers.org> Yes, I have them scanned, I'll try to get them uploaded to bitsavers this morning On 8/12/18 3:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the Centronics 101A impact printer? From derschjo at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 17:04:45 2018 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 15:04:45 -0700 Subject: Help ID'ing Bridge Rectifier Message-ID: Hey all -- Working on bringing a Dasher D200 terminal back to life. There's a bridge rectifier package that appears to have a short in it and I can't find any info on it -- I suspect it may have a house part number. It's got a Motorola logo on it, and is labeled "SDA314." In the schematic ( http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dg/terminals/014-000640_DASHER_D100_D200_Display_Terminals_Users_Manual_Oct79.pdf) it's CR6. This short causes the 5W resistors before the fuse to smoke and explode, but the fuse is fine (thank goodness.) :). Anyone have any ideas? Thanks, Josh From cclist at sydex.com Sun Aug 12 18:15:43 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 16:15:43 -0700 Subject: Help ID'ing Bridge Rectifier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75b74fa3-6547-4c9a-2044-1bc1bbd87508@sydex.com> I would think, looking at the schematic that any 2A 600V bridge would do in this position. If you wanted some error margin, the 4A 600V. --Chuck On 08/12/2018 03:04 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > Hey all -- > > Working on bringing a Dasher D200 terminal back to life. There's a bridge > rectifier package that appears to have a short in it and I can't find any > info on it -- I suspect it may have a house part number. It's got a > Motorola logo on it, and is labeled "SDA314." In the schematic ( > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dg/terminals/014-000640_DASHER_D100_D200_Display_Terminals_Users_Manual_Oct79.pdf) > it's CR6. > > This short causes the 5W resistors before the fuse to smoke and explode, > but the fuse is fine (thank goodness.) :). > > Anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks, > Josh > From w2hx at w2hx.com Sun Aug 12 21:08:17 2018 From: w2hx at w2hx.com (W2HX) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 02:08:17 +0000 Subject: Help ID'ing Bridge Rectifier In-Reply-To: <75b74fa3-6547-4c9a-2044-1bc1bbd87508@sydex.com> References: <75b74fa3-6547-4c9a-2044-1bc1bbd87508@sydex.com> Message-ID: I agree with chuck. 73 Eugene W2HX -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 7:16 PM To: Josh Dersch via cctalk Subject: Re: Help ID'ing Bridge Rectifier I would think, looking at the schematic that any 2A 600V bridge would do in this position. If you wanted some error margin, the 4A 600V. --Chuck On 08/12/2018 03:04 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > Hey all -- > > Working on bringing a Dasher D200 terminal back to life. There's a bridge > rectifier package that appears to have a short in it and I can't find any > info on it -- I suspect it may have a house part number. It's got a > Motorola logo on it, and is labeled "SDA314." In the schematic ( > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dg/terminals/014-000640_DASHER_D100_D200_Display_Terminals_Users_Manual_Oct79.pdf) > it's CR6. > > This short causes the 5W resistors before the fuse to smoke and explode, > but the fuse is fine (thank goodness.) :). > > Anyone have any ideas? > > Thanks, > Josh > From useddec at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 21:14:04 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 21:14:04 -0500 Subject: DEC SIMMS Message-ID: *I found a handful or two of 54-20410-01 and a bunch of 54-20352-01, but have conflicting info on what systems they are from. Does anyone have any info on them or need any?* *I'm also looking for a list of DEC simms. A fellow list member was kind enough to send me the following link.* *http://www.chrisjdoran.plus.com/simms.html * *Any info would be useful.* *Thanks, Paul* From derschjo at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 22:12:22 2018 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 20:12:22 -0700 Subject: Help ID'ing Bridge Rectifier In-Reply-To: References: <75b74fa3-6547-4c9a-2044-1bc1bbd87508@sydex.com> Message-ID: Cool, thanks, all! - Josh On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 7:08 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I agree with chuck. > > > 73 Eugene W2HX > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck > Guzis via cctalk > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 7:16 PM > To: Josh Dersch via cctalk > Subject: Re: Help ID'ing Bridge Rectifier > > I would think, looking at the schematic that any 2A 600V bridge would do > in this position. If you wanted some error margin, the 4A 600V. > > --Chuck > > > > > > On 08/12/2018 03:04 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > Hey all -- > > > > Working on bringing a Dasher D200 terminal back to life. There's a > bridge > > rectifier package that appears to have a short in it and I can't find any > > info on it -- I suspect it may have a house part number. It's got a > > Motorola logo on it, and is labeled "SDA314." In the schematic ( > > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dg/terminals/014-000640_DASHER_ > D100_D200_Display_Terminals_Users_Manual_Oct79.pdf) > > it's CR6. > > > > This short causes the 5W resistors before the fuse to smoke and explode, > > but the fuse is fine (thank goodness.) :). > > > > Anyone have any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > Josh > > > > From robertbeauchamp33 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 12 22:36:20 2018 From: robertbeauchamp33 at yahoo.com (robertbeauchamp33 at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:36:20 -0400 Subject: MicroVAX I Message-ID: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. Sent from my iPhone From useddec at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 03:29:56 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 03:29:56 -0500 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Robert, Where is the machine located? Thanks, Paul On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 10:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in > 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? > Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two > original monitors. > > Sent from my iPhone > From dj.taylor4 at comcast.net Mon Aug 13 10:22:30 2018 From: dj.taylor4 at comcast.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:22:30 -0400 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/12/2018 11:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: > My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. > > Sent from my iPhone Could be quite interesting to this community depending on how it has been stored since 1984 and is it complete and functional. Don't have any expectations for hard disks to work.? What models are the monitors?? VT100's?? Do you have the keyboards?? Any software? It is an antique and the condition, along with what's inside of the box determine how much interest there will be. As far as Vax and MicroVax systems the MicroVax I was probably the slowest of them all, and least capable.? Their selling point was that they didn't need an entire room, it could be placed in a normal office environment. Doug From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Mon Aug 13 10:35:12 2018 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:35:12 +0100 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <036a01d4331b$39ee5040$adcaf0c0$@ntlworld.com> If it is in the UK then I would be interested in it. Regards Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Douglas > Taylor via cctalk > Sent: 13 August 2018 16:23 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I > > On 8/12/2018 11:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: > > My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back > in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? > Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original > monitors. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > Could be quite interesting to this community depending on how it has been > stored since 1984 and is it complete and functional. Don't have any > expectations for hard disks to work. What models are the monitors? > VT100's? Do you have the keyboards? Any software? > > It is an antique and the condition, along with what's inside of the box > determine how much interest there will be. > > As far as Vax and MicroVax systems the MicroVax I was probably the slowest > of them all, and least capable. Their selling point was that they didn't need > an entire room, it could be placed in a normal office environment. > > Doug From healyzh at avanthar.com Mon Aug 13 10:48:04 2018 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:48:04 -0700 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 13, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > On 8/12/2018 11:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: >> My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. >> >> Sent from my iPhone > > Could be quite interesting to this community depending on how it has been stored since 1984 and is it complete and functional. Don't have any expectations for hard disks to work. What models are the monitors? VT100's? Do you have the keyboards? Any software? > > It is an antique and the condition, along with what's inside of the box determine how much interest there will be. > > As far as Vax and MicroVax systems the MicroVax I was probably the slowest of them all, and least capable. Their selling point was that they didn't need an entire room, it could be placed in a normal office environment. > > Doug Something that comes to my mind, what chassis were available for the MicroVAX I? I?m far more familiar with the MicroVAX II. While traditionally I?ve preferred the BA123 chassis, I?m rather partial to the BA23?s these days, as they take up about half the space. Good point on the monitor question, I was trying to figure out how/why a MicroVAX I would have two monitors. Two terminals makes perfect sense. Zane From binarydinosaurs at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 10:51:04 2018 From: binarydinosaurs at gmail.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:51:04 +0100 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I know speed wise this was the slowest VAX of the day, but mine came from a former DEC engineer and was used as a CAD station - it had a socking great Tektronix monitor with it that's now at TNMoC in Bletchley Park. Or at least I hope it still is. -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 16:48, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On 8/12/2018 11:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: > >> My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back > in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? > Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two > original monitors. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > > > > Could be quite interesting to this community depending on how it has > been stored since 1984 and is it complete and functional. Don't have any > expectations for hard disks to work. What models are the monitors? > VT100's? Do you have the keyboards? Any software? > > > > It is an antique and the condition, along with what's inside of the box > determine how much interest there will be. > > > > As far as Vax and MicroVax systems the MicroVax I was probably the > slowest of them all, and least capable. Their selling point was that they > didn't need an entire room, it could be placed in a normal office > environment. > > > > Doug > > Something that comes to my mind, what chassis were available for the > MicroVAX I? I?m far more familiar with the MicroVAX II. While > traditionally I?ve preferred the BA123 chassis, I?m rather partial to the > BA23?s these days, as they take up about half the space. > > Good point on the monitor question, I was trying to figure out how/why a > MicroVAX I would have two monitors. Two terminals makes perfect sense. > > Zane > > > From elson at pico-systems.com Mon Aug 13 11:12:45 2018 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:12:45 -0500 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5B71ADFD.2020006@pico-systems.com> On 08/12/2018 10:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: > My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. > > Wow, relatively rare. Other than historical interest, there's pretty much no "value" in it. It was a performance DOG. Jon From couryhouse at aol.com Mon Aug 13 12:03:40 2018 From: couryhouse at aol.com (Ed Sharpe) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:03:40 -0400 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <5B71ADFD.2020006@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <165343e423d-1e9c-23e0@webjas-vad117.srv.aolmail.net> yes,? but as a bit? of history.... quite? ?valuable if? you? want the entire? line up especially! -Ed# ? ? ? In a message dated 8/13/2018 9:12:53 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: ? On 08/12/2018 10:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: > My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. > > Wow, relatively rare. Other than historical interest, there's pretty much no "value" in it. It was a performance DOG. Jon From healyzh at avanthar.com Mon Aug 13 12:39:12 2018 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:39:12 -0700 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <5B71ADFD.2020006@pico-systems.com> References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> <5B71ADFD.2020006@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 13, 2018, at 9:12 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > > On 08/12/2018 10:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: >> My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. >> >> > Wow, relatively rare. Other than historical interest, there's pretty much no "value" in it. It was a performance DOG. > > Jon The VAX-11/725 and VAX-11/730 is equally bad performance wise. A MicroVAX I is 0.3 VUPS, and a MicroVAX II is 0.9 VUPS. http://www.people.vcu.edu/~agnew/MVAX/VAX-PERF.HTML Zane From robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com Mon Aug 13 12:59:06 2018 From: robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com (Rob Jarratt) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:59:06 +0100 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> <5B71ADFD.2020006@pico-systems.com> Message-ID: <037701d4332f$5435f9d0$fca1ed70$@ntlworld.com> Even though the 730 is also pretty slow, I would love to have one if anyone in the UK has one going spare.... Regards Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane Healy > via cctalk > Sent: 13 August 2018 18:39 > To: Jon Elson ; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Cc: General at ezwind.net; robertbeauchamp33 at yahoo.com > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 9:12 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: > > > > On 08/12/2018 10:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: > >> My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new > back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your > chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two > original monitors. > >> > >> > > Wow, relatively rare. Other than historical interest, there's pretty much no > "value" in it. It was a performance DOG. > > > > Jon > > The VAX-11/725 and VAX-11/730 is equally bad performance wise. A > MicroVAX I is 0.3 VUPS, and a MicroVAX II is 0.9 VUPS. > > http://www.people.vcu.edu/~agnew/MVAX/VAX-PERF.HTML > > Zane From silent700 at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 13:29:57 2018 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 13:29:57 -0500 Subject: FPUIB: OMG Will it never end? Magazines available free or postage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 7:54 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > (Box A33) ... Hi Fred - have any of these magazines been claimed? If so, what's left? From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Aug 13 13:41:54 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FPUIB: OMG Will it never end? Magazines available free or postage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> (Box A33) ... On Mon, 13 Aug 2018, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > Hi Fred - have any of these magazines been claimed? If so, what's left? They're all still here. One full copy-paper-box, Want all of them? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Aug 13 14:00:36 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 12:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FPUIB: OMG Will it never end? Magazines available free or postage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry. Should have been private/off-list. (unless anyody else wants some books or magazines) On Mon, 13 Aug 2018, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >>> (Box A33) ... > On Mon, 13 Aug 2018, Jason T via cctalk wrote: >> Hi Fred - have any of these magazines been claimed? If so, what's left? > > They're all still here. > One full copy-paper-box, > Want all of them? > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From jon at jonworld.com Tue Aug 14 07:25:40 2018 From: jon at jonworld.com (Jonathan Katz) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 13:25:40 +0100 Subject: Northern Telecon ICs Message-ID: All, A buddy on twitter is trying to find out info on the following NT ICs. Info here: "Northern Telecom QMV271BY1 / NTOOR66C3A : Unknown device. Ceramic Pin Grid Array package with gold cap. Manufactured Week 33 of 1990. No further information known." https://twitter.com/Neko_Ed/status/1029034885573500929 Any ideas to help him? -- -Jon +44 7792 149029 From mattislind at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 09:59:00 2018 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:59:00 +0200 Subject: General Electric Terminet 30 manuals? Message-ID: Continuing this thread with requests for heavy printers and the like. Is there anyone that has manuals for the GE Terminet 30? https://i.imgur.com/8Q0Mf2d.jpg /Mattis From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 10:52:06 2018 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:52:06 +0100 Subject: Single-height Qbus grant continuity PCB Message-ID: All the PDP11 people here will know the little square grant continuity board used in Unibus machines, along with the later dual-height one that also connected the NPG signal. And the common Qbus grant continuity board that was also a full dual-height one that had a couple of pairs of pins linked on one of the connectors. But I have here a little square board (the same size as the older Unibus grant continuity card) with just 2 pairs of pins linked. In the etch is a Digital logo (so I assume it's a real DEC product) and : LSI11 Grant Continuity G7272 5012564B Side 2 Has anyone come across that one before? -tony From spacewar at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 11:25:20 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 10:25:20 -0600 Subject: Single-height Qbus grant continuity PCB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > But I have here a little square board (the same size as the older Unibus > grant > continuity card) with just 2 pairs of pins linked. In the etch is a > Digital logo (so > I assume it's a real DEC product) and : > > LSI11 Grant > Continuity > G7272 > 5012564B > Side 2 > > Has anyone come across that one before? > Yes. It's not as common as M9047, and not as convenient, but it works. There's reportedly also an M9037, which I've never seen. From couryhouse at aol.com Tue Aug 14 11:37:17 2018 From: couryhouse at aol.com (Ed Sharpe) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:37:17 -0400 Subject: General Electric Terminet 30 manuals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <165394c7966-1e98-2c9@webjas-vab100.srv.aolmail.net> very nice!!! the asr version! ed# Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: Continuing this thread with requests for heavy printers and the like. Is there anyone that has manuals for the GE Terminet 30? https://i.imgur.com/8Q0Mf2d.jpg /Mattis From couryhouse at aol.com Tue Aug 14 11:45:52 2018 From: couryhouse at aol.com (Ed Sharpe) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:45:52 -0400 Subject: General Electric Terminet 30 manuals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16539545427-1e9b-b938@webjas-vac040.srv.aolmail.net> bitsavers only has terminet 300 and 1200... but I,can also figure you may have checked there already... ed# Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: Continuing this thread with requests for heavy printers and the like. Is there anyone that has manuals for the GE Terminet 30? https://i.imgur.com/8Q0Mf2d.jpg /Mattis From couryhouse at aol.com Tue Aug 14 11:46:00 2018 From: couryhouse at aol.com (Ed Sharpe) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:46:00 -0400 Subject: General Electric Terminet 30 manuals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16539547208-1e9d-15557@webjas-vac026.srv.aolmail.net> bitsavers only has terminet 300 and 1200... but I,can also figure you may have checked there already... ed# Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: Continuing this thread with requests for heavy printers and the like. Is there anyone that has manuals for the GE Terminet 30? https://i.imgur.com/8Q0Mf2d.jpg /Mattis From pete at dunnington.plus.com Tue Aug 14 12:01:24 2018 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 18:01:24 +0100 Subject: Single-height Qbus grant continuity PCB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2a0af417-1b30-aa06-2a05-4722c9ebee6d@dunnington.plus.com> On 14/08/2018 16:52, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > But I have here a little square board (the same size as the older > Unibus grant continuity card) with just 2 pairs of pins linked. In > the etch is a Digital logo (so I assume it's a real DEC product) and: > > LSI11 Grant Continuity G7272 5012564B Side 2 > > Has anyone come across that one before? No, not seen one of those. Not sure I want to, either: I like to keep the skin on my knuckles ;-) -- Pete Pete Turnbull From ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 12:13:48 2018 From: ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com (Tony Duell) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 18:13:48 +0100 Subject: Single-height Qbus grant continuity PCB In-Reply-To: <2a0af417-1b30-aa06-2a05-4722c9ebee6d@dunnington.plus.com> References: <2a0af417-1b30-aa06-2a05-4722c9ebee6d@dunnington.plus.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 6:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote: > On 14/08/2018 16:52, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > >> But I have here a little square board (the same size as the older >> Unibus grant continuity card) with just 2 pairs of pins linked. In >> the etch is a Digital logo (so I assume it's a real DEC product) and: >> >> LSI11 Grant Continuity G7272 5012564B Side 2 >> >> Has anyone come across that one before? > > > No, not seen one of those. Not sure I want to, either: I like to keep the > skin on my knuckles ;-) I don't think that seeing it will scrape your hands... Trying to get it in or out of a full backplane might. -tony From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Tue Aug 14 14:04:14 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Single-height Qbus grant continuity PCB Message-ID: <20180814190414.4C78618C074@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Tony Duell > I have here a little square board (the same size as the older Unibus > grant continuity card) with just 2 pairs of pins linked. ... Has anyone > come across that one before? No, that's a new one on me. I have seen off-brand single-height QBUS grant jumpers, but full length (no knuckle-busting); I have a number from MDB Systems. Noel From pbirkel at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 14:20:54 2018 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:20:54 -0400 Subject: Centronics 101A manuals? In-Reply-To: <08a9e602-53bb-f54f-d40f-cb7fe67c0b79@bitsavers.org> References: <00d501d4322a$6fb47660$4f1d6320$@gmail.com> <08a9e602-53bb-f54f-d40f-cb7fe67c0b79@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <03c001d43403$ebc66120$c3532360$@gmail.com> Thank you Al! -----Original Message----- From: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via cctech Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 10:09 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Centronics 101A manuals? Yes, I have them scanned, I'll try to get them uploaded to bitsavers this morning On 8/12/18 3:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the Centronics 101A impact printer? From pbirkel at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 14:20:54 2018 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:20:54 -0400 Subject: Centronics 101A manuals? In-Reply-To: <08a9e602-53bb-f54f-d40f-cb7fe67c0b79@bitsavers.org> References: <00d501d4322a$6fb47660$4f1d6320$@gmail.com> <08a9e602-53bb-f54f-d40f-cb7fe67c0b79@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <03c001d43403$ebc66120$c3532360$@gmail.com> Thank you Al! -----Original Message----- From: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via cctech Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 10:09 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Centronics 101A manuals? Yes, I have them scanned, I'll try to get them uploaded to bitsavers this morning On 8/12/18 3:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the Centronics 101A impact printer? From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 15:01:30 2018 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:01:30 -0400 Subject: Single-height Qbus grant continuity PCB In-Reply-To: <20180814190414.4C78618C074@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20180814190414.4C78618C074@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Tony Duell > > > I have here a little square board (the same size as the older Unibus > > grant continuity card) with just 2 pairs of pins linked. ... Has anyone > > come across that one before? > > No, that's a new one on me. I have seen off-brand single-height QBUS grant > jumpers, but full length (no knuckle-busting); I have a number from MDB > Systems. I have something like it made by Compuserve - dual height but single length - twice as big as a Unibus G727. -ethan From Kevin at RawFedDogs.net Tue Aug 14 15:11:31 2018 From: Kevin at RawFedDogs.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:11:31 -0500 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <037701d4332f$5435f9d0$fca1ed70$@ntlworld.com> References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> <5B71ADFD.2020006@pico-systems.com> <037701d4332f$5435f9d0$fca1ed70$@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20180814201130.GA14753@RawFedDogs.net> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 06:59:06PM +0100, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > Even though the 730 is also pretty slow, I would love to have one if > anyone in the UK has one going spare.... I'd love to come across one needing a good home in my neck of the woods some day myself, or even more so an 11/750. An 11/750 was my first exposure to a system larger than a PC. Actually I probably wouldn't say no to any VAX in need of a good home, including a MicroVAX I. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 16:12:02 2018 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:12:02 -0400 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk wrote: > My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. There is some value, since it's in a BA23 and _is_ a VAX, even as slow as can be. They are somewhat uncommon because they were only available for a couple of years unlike most other DEC machines. Having used one in the mid-80s when they were brand new (and $10,000), they are quite slow and painful and limited to, I think, various versions of MicroVMS and VMS 4.x, depending on disk size (MicroVMS fits on a 30MB disk when the full version would not). I don't recall if there is any support for them in VMS 5.x - the max RAM is 4MB (unlike later Qbus VAXen, the RAM is _on_ the Qbus) but one could easily put a newer disk controller in there other than the RQDX1 and a larger disk. As shipped, though, I don't think the uVAX-I arrived with a large enough disk for VMS 5.0, at least not without a very manual, very painful install. Where is this? (city? country? continent?) I still have the one from work from 1984 so I'm not in the market, but people here do want to know. -ethan From derschjo at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 17:40:01 2018 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 15:40:01 -0700 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/14/2018 2:12 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk > wrote: >> My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? He also has two original monitors. > There is some value, since it's in a BA23 and _is_ a VAX, even as slow > as can be. They are somewhat uncommon because they were only > available for a couple of years unlike most other DEC machines. > Having used one in the mid-80s when they were brand new (and $10,000), > they are quite slow and painful and limited to, I think, various > versions of MicroVMS and VMS 4.x, depending on disk size (MicroVMS > fits on a 30MB disk when the full version would not). I don't recall > if there is any support for them in VMS 5.x - the max RAM is 4MB > (unlike later Qbus VAXen, the RAM is _on_ the Qbus) but one could > easily put a newer disk controller in there other than the RQDX1 and a > larger disk. Be aware that most (if not all?) QBus SCSI controllers appear to be incompatible with the MicroVAX I.? I'm not entirely sure why this is, but none of the Emulex, CMD, or Dilog controllers I've tried are listed as compatible with the system -- they all state compatibility with the II and later .I've tried using them in my MicroVAX I with no success.? VMS fails to boot, and Ultrix kernel panics.? Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone have any idea why this might be? I'd like to get the system doing something interesting and not having to rely on very old MFM disks would be nice... - Josh > As shipped, though, I don't think the uVAX-I arrived > with a large enough disk for VMS 5.0, at least not without a very > manual, very painful install. > > Where is this? (city? country? continent?) > > I still have the one from work from 1984 so I'm not in the market, but > people here do want to know. > > -ethan > From chd at chdickman.com Tue Aug 14 19:55:45 2018 From: chd at chdickman.com (Charles Dickman) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 20:55:45 -0400 Subject: HP scope mailing list Message-ID: Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list? I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again. -chuck From useddec at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 23:11:51 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:11:51 -0500 Subject: Tandy parts Message-ID: I have a Tandy 1700355 rev c p/n 870-9782 motherboard and a 1700496-B p/n 87091127 card. If interested, please contact me off list. Thanks, Paul From jsw at ieee.org Tue Aug 14 23:31:11 2018 From: jsw at ieee.org (Jerry Weiss) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:31:11 -0500 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <7F41FAE8-D380-4BA9-A324-F0345D0D15CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/14/18 5:40 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > On 8/14/2018 2:12 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > >> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:36 PM, robertbeauchamp33--- via cctalk >> wrote: >>> My mother is moving and her spouse has a MicroVax I he bought new >>> back in 1984 for some crazy amount. I don?t see this model listed in >>> your chart? Can you tell me if there is any value to this machine? >>> He also has two original monitors. >> There is some value, since it's in a BA23 and _is_ a VAX, even as slow >> as can be.? They are somewhat uncommon because they were only >> available for a couple of years unlike most other DEC machines. >> Having used one in the mid-80s when they were brand new (and $10,000), >> they are quite slow and painful and limited to, I think, various >> versions of MicroVMS and VMS 4.x, depending on disk size (MicroVMS >> fits on a 30MB disk when the full version would not).? I don't recall >> if there is any support for them in VMS 5.x - the max RAM is 4MB >> (unlike later Qbus VAXen, the RAM is _on_ the Qbus) but one could >> easily put a newer disk controller in there other than the RQDX1 and a >> larger disk. > > Be aware that most (if not all?) QBus SCSI controllers appear to be > incompatible with the MicroVAX I.? I'm not entirely sure why this is, > but none of the Emulex, CMD, or Dilog controllers I've tried are > listed as compatible with the system -- they all state compatibility > with the II and later .I've tried using them in my MicroVAX I with no > success.? VMS fails to boot, and Ultrix kernel panics.? Not to hijack > the thread, but does anyone have any idea why this might be? I'd like > to get the system doing something interesting and not having to rely > on very old MFM disks would be nice... > > - Josh > No personal experience here, but the Emulex UC04 is listed as MicroVAX I compatible. See https://ia801902.us.archive.org/11/items/bitsavers_emulex1987_5921218/1987_catalog_text.pdf page 27. The UC07/UC08 is documented not to support the MicroVax I due to lack of Scatter/Gather support.? See https://ia801902.us.archive.org/11/items/bitsavers_emulex1987_5921218/1987_catalog_text.pdf Section 1.6.3? Page 1-22. Having no Scatter/Gather (aka Qbus IO Map) is not a surprise as the MicroVax I only uses Qbus Memory directly.? Thus mapping to a larger physical address space should not be needed? (micronote #22). However, I don't follow what changed to lose support on the UC07/08. Jerry From salgernon at me.com Tue Aug 14 21:44:10 2018 From: salgernon at me.com (Steve Algernon) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 19:44:10 -0700 Subject: SPARCstation Voyager - Any history? Message-ID: <9174AFCD-259C-4369-89F9-2F3BEA9110D2@me.com> Cleaning up a non-post?ing SPARCStation voyager 146 (are there others?) and found a crude cat drawing on the silkscreen: https://twitter.com/salgernon/status/1029474524100616192?s=21 Just curious if anyone knows any backstory for this kitty. (I was at sunw from ?90 to ?92 and this machine is a little after my time!) ?sma From pbirkel at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 00:22:40 2018 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 01:22:40 -0400 Subject: HP scope mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <043b01d43457$fcf8cd30$f6ea6790$@gmail.com> Try: hp_agilent_equipment at yahoogroups.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles Dickman via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:56 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: HP scope mailing list Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list? I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again. -chuck From jon at jonworld.com Wed Aug 15 06:10:22 2018 From: jon at jonworld.com (Jonathan Katz) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:10:22 +0100 Subject: SPARCstation Voyager - Any history? In-Reply-To: <9174AFCD-259C-4369-89F9-2F3BEA9110D2@me.com> References: <9174AFCD-259C-4369-89F9-2F3BEA9110D2@me.com> Message-ID: At that point in time SUNW was silk-screening all kinds of code-name animals on their boards. The SS20 was code-named Kodiak and had a bear in the middle of the motherboard. Various sbus cards had the names of the QA people on them who QAd the card. Here, this page on the IPX shows your cat on the IPX motherboards. http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_ipx/ And also here: https://www.reddit.com/r/computers/comments/7jwmpf/found_this_guy_etched_into_the_board_in_an_old/ On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 3:44 AM, Steve Algernon via cctech < cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Cleaning up a non-post?ing SPARCStation voyager 146 (are there others?) > and found a crude cat drawing on the silkscreen: > > https://twitter.com/salgernon/status/1029474524100616192?s=21 > > Just curious if anyone knows any backstory for this kitty. (I was at sunw > from ?90 to ?92 and this machine is a little after my time!) > > ?sma -- -Jon +44 7792 149029 From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 15 13:45:06 2018 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:45:06 -0500 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> I'm thinking of reducing my collection by bringing items to VCF Midwest. I attended once six or seven years ago. Of course a great deal depends on what I'm selling, so I'll build a list. Possibles include Micro PDP-11, Microvax II, Vaxstations, Kaypro 1, CBM, Amiga, Atari, Apple, some S-100 boards. Is there anyone here who sold at a previous VCF Midwest? How did it go? If there's only 150 attendees, is selling more like exhibiting? Ideally I'd like to come home with an empty van. - John From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 11:55:44 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:55:44 -0400 Subject: vintage printers in Colo Springs Message-ID: If anyone is interested in a Wang Daisy Wheel Printer, Diablo same, Star SG-10, TRS 80- DWP 510 and a few other things like that let me know and I will pass your info along to a guy who contacted me through my web site. I do not know the guy. I am not interested in these. This person implied that is not giving them away, He may just want a token payment or he may be Ebay savvy. Or somewhere in between.... Please don't reply here, send your contact info, securely, here: https://www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm (I don't track or store contact form submittals from my web site.) Bill From michael.99.thompson at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 12:54:30 2018 From: michael.99.thompson at gmail.com (Michael Thompson) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:54:30 -0400 Subject: SPARCstation Voyager - Any history? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > From: Steve Algernon > Subject: SPARCstation Voyager - Any history? > > Cleaning up a non-post?ing SPARCStation voyager 146 (are there others?) > and found a crude cat drawing on the silkscreen: > > https://twitter.com/salgernon/status/1029474524100616192?s=21 > > Just curious if anyone knows any backstory for this kitty. (I was at sunw > from ?90 to ?92 and this machine is a little after my time!) > > ?sma > The Sun 386i, Roadrunner, had the roadrunner and the developers names molded into the case. There are pictures of some of the developers here: https://sites.google.com/site/mthompsonorg/Home/sun-microsystems/sun-386i-developers -- Michael Thompson From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 13:54:34 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:54:34 -0400 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> References: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> Message-ID: It's a buyer's market if you ask me, but a large volume of stuff moves there. MW is the biggest swap of the VCF's. b On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:45 PM John Foust via cctalk wrote: > > I'm thinking of reducing my collection by bringing items to VCF Midwest. > I attended once six or seven years ago. > > Of course a great deal depends on what I'm selling, so I'll build a list. > > Possibles include Micro PDP-11, Microvax II, Vaxstations, Kaypro 1, > CBM, Amiga, Atari, Apple, some S-100 boards. > > Is there anyone here who sold at a previous VCF Midwest? How did it go? > > If there's only 150 attendees, is selling more like exhibiting? > Ideally I'd like to come home with an empty van. > > - John > > From kylevowen at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 13:55:20 2018 From: kylevowen at gmail.com (Kyle Owen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:55:20 -0500 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> References: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:45 PM, John Foust via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I'm thinking of reducing my collection by bringing items to VCF Midwest. > I attended once six or seven years ago. > > Of course a great deal depends on what I'm selling, so I'll build a list. > > Possibles include Micro PDP-11, Microvax II, Vaxstations, Kaypro 1, > CBM, Amiga, Atari, Apple, some S-100 boards. > > Is there anyone here who sold at a previous VCF Midwest? How did it go? > > If there's only 150 attendees, is selling more like exhibiting? > Ideally I'd like to come home with an empty van. > Depending on your prices, I think you'll do very well. There have always been a good number in attendance, and those items should be very desirable for many attendees (myself possibly included). Kyle From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 13:56:36 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:56:36 -0400 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: References: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> Message-ID: me too, I am going to try to fly out this year On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:55 PM Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:45 PM, John Foust via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > I'm thinking of reducing my collection by bringing items to VCF Midwest. > > I attended once six or seven years ago. > > > > Of course a great deal depends on what I'm selling, so I'll build a list. > > > > Possibles include Micro PDP-11, Microvax II, Vaxstations, Kaypro 1, > > CBM, Amiga, Atari, Apple, some S-100 boards. > > > > Is there anyone here who sold at a previous VCF Midwest? How did it go? > > > > If there's only 150 attendees, is selling more like exhibiting? > > Ideally I'd like to come home with an empty van. > > > > Depending on your prices, I think you'll do very well. There have always > been a good number in attendance, and those items should be very desirable > for many attendees (myself possibly included). > > Kyle > From silent700 at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 17:11:31 2018 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:11:31 -0500 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> References: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:45 PM John Foust via cctalk wrote: > I'm thinking of reducing my collection by bringing items to VCF Midwest. > I attended once six or seven years ago. > > Of course a great deal depends on what I'm selling, so I'll build a list. > > Possibles include Micro PDP-11, Microvax II, Vaxstations, Kaypro 1, > CBM, Amiga, Atari, Apple, some S-100 boards. > > Is there anyone here who sold at a previous VCF Midwest? How did it go? > > If there's only 150 attendees, is selling more like exhibiting? > Ideally I'd like to come home with an empty van. Hello John - I'm the lead organizer for VCFMW and we'd be happy to have you (and your hardware) out at our show. VCFMW has changed a lot since you (and even Bill D) last attended - we have a new location with about double the floor space and our attendance has grown in proportion. Our tables are all booked up and the free-for-all space in the side vendor room is probably nearly there, too, so I can't guarantee you a table, so I'd suggest compiling a list, if possible, and posting it here and on our local mailing list at http://chiclassiccomp.org to arrange sales ahead of time for delivery at the show. Of course, if space opens up (even floor space, if you bring a table), you're welcome to bring things in to sell, or even sell out of your van in the parking lot. We're all about the trading and swapping. If you have items of lesser value that don't seem to generate interest, you may also consider donating them to our fundraiser auction which happens on Saturday afternoon. Be sure to attend either way - I hear it's quite the spectacle ;) Any more questions, feel free to email me directly. Hope to see you there! -j From silent700 at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 17:12:11 2018 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:12:11 -0500 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: References: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:30 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > me too, I am going to try to fly out this year DOOOO IIIIT! From billdegnan at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 00:28:12 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:28:12 -0400 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: References: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> Message-ID: Looks like I will be coming. It's too late to exhibit though, right? I was going to whip together little suitcase exhibit about the origins of the internet featuring the honeywell ddp-516 On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:10 PM Jason T via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:30 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > me too, I am going to try to fly out this year > > DOOOO IIIIT! > From useddec at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 02:51:08 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:51:08 -0500 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: References: <20180815184540.808A82739C@mx1.ezwind.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:28 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Looks like I will be coming. It's too late to exhibit though, right? I > was going to whip together little suitcase exhibit about the origins of the > internet featuring the honeywell ddp-516 > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:10 PM Jason T via cctalk > wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:30 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk > > wrote: > > > me too, I am going to try to fly out this year > > > > DOOOO IIIIT! > > > From sales at elecplus.com Thu Aug 16 10:40:37 2018 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:40:37 -0500 Subject: IBM Displaywriter Logic for sale Message-ID: <017201d43577$7ad5f690$7081e3b0$@com> https://mashup.equallogicstorage.net/ibm/ibm-display-writer-system-untested- for-parts-repair/ Not affiliated with seller, etc. Cindy Croxton --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From marvin at west.net Thu Aug 16 12:25:10 2018 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:25:10 -0700 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? Message-ID: This will make my third year selling at VCFMW. My motives are to pay for the trip :), Diminish the "collection", and have fun talking/meeting with other attendees. All three have been easily accomplished! For me, I don't relish the use of a consignment area and spend most of my time in the selling area. I try not to buy much as I am really trying to downsize the collection. I do find it better to try and have buyers waiting for anything large or heavy. I'm not sure, but I suspect enough people might be interested that it could be a 24 hour event, Fri night - Sun afternoon :). See you there! Marvin > From: John Foust > > I'm thinking of reducing my collection by bringing items to VCF Midwest. > I attended once six or seven years ago. > > Of course a great deal depends on what I'm selling, so I'll build a list. > > Possibles include Micro PDP-11, Microvax II, Vaxstations, Kaypro 1, > CBM, Amiga, Atari, Apple, some S-100 boards. > > Is there anyone here who sold at a previous VCF Midwest? How did it go? > > If there's only 150 attendees, is selling more like exhibiting? > Ideally I'd like to come home with an empty van. > > - John From silent700 at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 17:08:55 2018 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:08:55 -0500 Subject: VCF Midwest seller's experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:25 PM Marvin Johnston via cctalk wrote: > I'm not sure, but I suspect enough people might be interested that it > could be a 24 hour event, Fri night - Sun afternoon :). While we technically open up Saturday morning and Friday is for set-up and load in, Marvin is right, the show really begins on Friday evening. Much of the trading and sales happens btw exhibitors/vendors, so it pays to be in town early. -j From curiousmarc3 at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 23:40:56 2018 From: curiousmarc3 at gmail.com (Curious Marc) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 21:40:56 -0700 Subject: HP scope mailing list In-Reply-To: <043b01d43457$fcf8cd30$f6ea6790$@gmail.com> References: <043b01d43457$fcf8cd30$f6ea6790$@gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 on the hp_agilent Yahoo group Marc > On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:22 PM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > > Try: hp_agilent_equipment at yahoogroups.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles Dickman via cctalk > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:56 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: HP scope mailing list > > Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list? > > I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again. > > -chuck > From useddec at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 23:56:03 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 23:56:03 -0500 Subject: Vaxstation 2000, parts, more In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The expansion boxes are as follows: 2-RZ55-FA RD54-FA TK50Z-FA TK50Z-GA Paul On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 5:16 AM, Paul Anderson wrote: > I have a Vaxstation 2000 with the BA40-A expansion box , cable and hard > drive. > > I have four more unit That I couldn't get close enough to tell if they are > 2000s or expansion boxes. > > If anyone is interest in any, I will pull them out and can supply a > configuration. > > I also have two MS400-BA 4mb cards, a VS40-X 54-166-88 4 plane graphics > cards and two VS40-X 54-17282-01 8 plane cards. > > Last is a 54-19783-01 VT1000 board. > > If you have any interest or questions please contact me off list. > > Thanks, Paul > > From useddec at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 00:16:33 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:16:33 -0500 Subject: VCFMW drop offs, pick ups, visits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been sorting and cleaning and slowly making progress. I found more ABLE, Dilog, Emulex, etc. I'll probably be bringing a few of the things mentioned above, a few q-bus boxes and boards, and DEC compatible boards. I have M7264s, M7270s, M8186, M8189, M7554, and M8190. I think that is most if not all Q-bus CPUs. I also have some missing the socketed CPU chips at a reduced price. If there is any interest, I have some audio gear, mixers and band gear, and microscopes. Please send wish lists! Thanks, Paul On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Paul Anderson wrote: > I'm looking forward to seeing everyone going to VCFMW. I'm going to try to > go up Friday and leave late Saturday. It's always great when people swing > by the house, but try to give me some warning, especially with me going up > Friday. > > I hope to have a path dug into my last 25 foot storage unit and retrieve a > ton of micro-Vax II parts along with a ton of other items. > > I still have a few 3000 alphas, about 10 3100s, a few 4000s, 5000s, 6 or > so BA11-N (11/03L/23) boxes, BA23s, LA120s, and 1000's of other parts. Also > some REMEX interfaces and a bunch of paper tape readers and maybe punches > I'm getting tired of looking at. > > Please contact me off list if you have any requests or questions. > > Feel free to send me wish lists. > > Thanks, Paul > > > From toby at telegraphics.com.au Fri Aug 17 17:14:48 2018 From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 18:14:48 -0400 Subject: HP scope mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <043b01d43457$fcf8cd30$f6ea6790$@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2018-08-17 12:40 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote: > +1 on the hp_agilent Yahoo group Which at this very moment is MOVING to groups.io: https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment Also highly recommended is the TekScopes list if you own/repair any Tek gear: https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics --Toby > Marc > >> On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:22 PM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: >> >> Try: hp_agilent_equipment at yahoogroups.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles Dickman via cctalk >> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:56 PM >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: HP scope mailing list >> >> Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list? >> >> I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again. >> >> -chuck >> > From useddec at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 00:14:35 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 00:14:35 -0500 Subject: QED 933 (11/93 clone) and mystery SCSI board Message-ID: I just found a QED 933. I've had Memtec boards before, but I don't remember anything about this one. The other board is a SI-QS 1000 6050-6005-B (Systems Industry?) quad height . Does anyone have any info or interest in these? Thanks, Paul From lproven at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 03:15:22 2018 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:15:22 +0200 Subject: Interesting blog post on Zuse Message-ID: Konrad Zuse, Alan Turing, and the World?s First Computer Startup POSTED ON OCTOBER 18, 2013 ? POSTED IN STARTUPS http://www.nathanzeldes.com/blog/2013/10/konrad-zuse-alan-turing-worlds-first-computer-startup/ -- Sent from my smartphone. Please pardon brevity & typos. From rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com Sat Aug 18 03:24:17 2018 From: rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com (Rod G8DGR) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 09:24:17 +0100 Subject: QED 933 (11/93 clone) and mystery SCSI board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5AF326F908F3A89C@rgout02.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk> (added by postmaster@btinternet.com) They re not quite the same as the DEC one. If you get into the on board firmware you will see Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Paul Anderson via cctalk Sent: 18 August 2018 06:14 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; cctech at vax-11.org Subject: QED 933 (11/93 clone) and mystery SCSI board I just found a QED 933. I've had Memtec boards before, but I don't remember anything about this one. The other board is a SI-QS 1000 6050-6005-B (Systems Industry?) quad height . Does anyone have any info or interest in these? Thanks, Paul From dave.g4ugm at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 04:30:02 2018 From: dave.g4ugm at gmail.com (Dave Wade) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:30:02 +0100 Subject: Interesting blog post on Zuse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00db01d436d6$0adc7bb0$20957310$@gmail.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Liam Proven via > cctalk > Sent: 18 August 2018 09:15 > To: Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Interesting blog post on Zuse > > Konrad Zuse, Alan Turing, and the World?s First Computer Startup POSTED > ON OCTOBER 18, 2013 ? POSTED IN STARTUPS > > > > http://www.nathanzeldes.com/blog/2013/10/konrad-zuse-alan-turing- > worlds-first-computer-startup/ > It?s a common thing. Folks want Turing to be involved in all computers, but in fact even the ACE which he designed wasn't completed until he left the National Physical Laboratory.... ... but the design was still significantly faster than other computers of the time, and by the time he died he was working on the mathematics of biology and morphogenesis using, using not designing computers, and complaining he couldn't get enough time on the Manchester Mk1. He was really interested in computers as learning and intelligent devices. He insisted the Manchester Mk1 could generate random numbers. I wonder what he would have made of the self driving car.... Dave > > > -- > Sent from my smartphone. Please pardon brevity & typos. From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 10:32:34 2018 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:32:34 -0500 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> Message-ID: <9011c617-1f75-b8af-c348-f5ce813f5c52@gmail.com> On 08/08/2018 09:13 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > Through my Old Calculator Museum website, I have been contacted by a > gentleman that has a fairly substantial Singer/Friden > System 10 that is located in a building that the business wants to clear > out. All, Any update on this - has anyone picked up the system, or are there plans to do so? Folks over at TNMoC are keen to know that it's been saved and is off to a good home (sadly it's a bit unwieldy to arrange for it to be shipped back to the UK!) cheers, Jules From toby at telegraphics.com.au Sat Aug 18 11:00:58 2018 From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 12:00:58 -0400 Subject: Interesting blog post on Zuse In-Reply-To: <00db01d436d6$0adc7bb0$20957310$@gmail.com> References: <00db01d436d6$0adc7bb0$20957310$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7e6e8738-39a4-4f3f-4236-ca1811c16e44@telegraphics.com.au> On 2018-08-18 5:30 AM, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Liam Proven via >> cctalk >> Sent: 18 August 2018 09:15 >> To: Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Interesting blog post on Zuse >> >> Konrad Zuse, Alan Turing, and the World?s First Computer Startup POSTED >> ON OCTOBER 18, 2013 ? POSTED IN STARTUPS >> >> >> >> http://www.nathanzeldes.com/blog/2013/10/konrad-zuse-alan-turing- >> worlds-first-computer-startup/ >> > > It?s a common thing. Folks want Turing to be involved in all computers, but in fact even the ACE which he designed wasn't completed until he left the National Physical Laboratory.... > ... but the design was still significantly faster than other computers of the time, and by the time he died he was working on the mathematics of biology and morphogenesis using, using not designing computers, and complaining he couldn't get enough time on the Manchester Mk1. He was really interested in computers as learning and intelligent devices. He insisted the Manchester Mk1 could generate random numbers. I wonder what he would have made of the self driving car.... Given his reputed intelligence I'd expect him to ask, "*what* self driving car?" > > Dave > >> >> >> -- >> Sent from my smartphone. Please pardon brevity & typos. > > From silent700 at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 13:24:28 2018 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 13:24:28 -0500 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: <9011c617-1f75-b8af-c348-f5ce813f5c52@gmail.com> References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> <9011c617-1f75-b8af-c348-f5ce813f5c52@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:32 AM Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote: > Any update on this - has anyone picked up the system, or are there plans to > do so? Folks over at TNMoC are keen to know that it's been saved and is off > to a good home (sadly it's a bit unwieldy to arrange for it to be shipped > back to the UK!) I did finally make contact with the system owner. The case isn't quite as urgent as originally depicted - we have a couple months to work on the rescue. I'm in touch with a museum that has the resources to transport and care for it. Hoping this ends in a triumphant rescue gallery for all to see. -j From glen.slick at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 15:06:07 2018 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 13:06:07 -0700 Subject: QED 933 (11/93 clone) and mystery SCSI board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 10:14 PM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > I just found a QED 933. I've had Memtec boards before, but I don't remember > anything about this one. > A few people bought QED-993 boards from eBay in the last few years. For example 200688358479 or 200600166676. They are set up to use the standard 11/93 console panel, although only 4 async ports are implemented, not 8. While they may be faster than a real J11 CPU based board, they have compatibility issues. The main issue is complete lack of floating point support. I was unable to get either 2.11BSD or RSTS/E 10.1 to run on a QED-993. Trying to build the 2.11BSD kernel without using floating point instructions didn't help. Maybe it is fast for running RT-11. I lost interest and never bothered giving that a try. From jules.richardson99 at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 15:53:22 2018 From: jules.richardson99 at gmail.com (Jules Richardson) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 15:53:22 -0500 Subject: Fairly Extensive Singer/Friden "System Ten" Computer System for Rescue In-Reply-To: References: <923A614D09D64B4D94D588FCAFD04C170107B374@mail.bensene.com> <9011c617-1f75-b8af-c348-f5ce813f5c52@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 08/18/2018 01:24 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > I did finally make contact with the system owner. The case isn't > quite as urgent as originally depicted - we have a couple months to > work on the rescue. I'm in touch with a museum that has the resources > to transport and care for it. Hoping this ends in a triumphant rescue > gallery for all to see. Excellent - good news, and thank you :-) Jules From curiousmarc3 at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 15:58:37 2018 From: curiousmarc3 at gmail.com (Curious Marc) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 13:58:37 -0700 Subject: HP scope mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <043b01d43457$fcf8cd30$f6ea6790$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46DA3562-3D42-406C-889D-D03D282C87F9@gmail.com> Ah, excellent, groups.io is so much better. Marc > On Aug 17, 2018, at 3:14 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: > >> On 2018-08-17 12:40 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote: >> +1 on the hp_agilent Yahoo group > > > Which at this very moment is MOVING to groups.io: > > https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment > > Also highly recommended is the TekScopes list if you own/repair any Tek > gear: > > https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics > > --Toby > > >> Marc >> >>> On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:22 PM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> Try: hp_agilent_equipment at yahoogroups.com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles Dickman via cctalk >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:56 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: HP scope mailing list >>> >>> Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list? >>> >>> I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again. >>> >>> -chuck >>> >> > From pbirkel at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 01:26:46 2018 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 02:26:46 -0400 Subject: Centronics 101A manuals? References: <00d501d4322a$6fb47660$4f1d6320$@gmail.com> <08a9e602-53bb-f54f-d40f-cb7fe67c0b79@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <0a5b01d43785$9af1c160$d0d54420$@gmail.com> Al: That's a very nice set that you've uploaded. Again, thanks :->. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 3:21 PM To: Al Kossow; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts; cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Centronics 101A manuals? Thank you Al! -----Original Message----- From: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via cctech Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 10:09 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Centronics 101A manuals? Yes, I have them scanned, I'll try to get them uploaded to bitsavers this morning On 8/12/18 3:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the Centronics 101A impact printer? From pbirkel at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 01:26:46 2018 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 02:26:46 -0400 Subject: Centronics 101A manuals? References: <00d501d4322a$6fb47660$4f1d6320$@gmail.com> <08a9e602-53bb-f54f-d40f-cb7fe67c0b79@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <0a5b01d43785$9af1c160$d0d54420$@gmail.com> Al: That's a very nice set that you've uploaded. Again, thanks :->. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbirkel at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 3:21 PM To: Al Kossow; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts; cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Centronics 101A manuals? Thank you Al! -----Original Message----- From: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via cctech Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 10:09 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Centronics 101A manuals? Yes, I have them scanned, I'll try to get them uploaded to bitsavers this morning On 8/12/18 3:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the Centronics 101A impact printer? From sellam.ismail at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 09:31:44 2018 From: sellam.ismail at gmail.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 07:31:44 -0700 Subject: New Listings from Sellam's Collection [re-send] Message-ID: > > Good evening, everybody. Time for a new batch of stuff! New items for August 18, 2018: Heathkit H88 Heahtkit H88 Heathkit EUW-20A Servo-Recorder Atari 410 Program Recorder Atari 825 80 Column Printer Atari CX85 Commodore MPS-803 Printer Commodore 1870 Modem/1200 (boxed) Cardco Inc. card? Centronics Parallel Printer Interface with Graphics for the VIC-20 and C-64 Computers Radio Shack TRS-80 Orchestra-90 Stereo Music Synthesizer Radio Shack TRS-80 Modem I Radio Shack TRS-80 Line Printer II IBM PCjr TI Speech Synthesizer Timex-Sinclair 1016 (boxed) Xerox 860 Keyboard Iomega A210H Bernoulli Box 10+10 Exidy Dual Disk DEC BA353-AA StorageWorks DEC TK50Z-FA DEC TX50Z-GA Tektronix 4051E01 ROM Expander Tektronix 4051 Binary Program Loader Tektronix PLOT 50 System Software Tape Tektronix PLOT 50 System Software Tape Tektronix PLOT 50 System Software Tape Tektronix PLOT 50 System Software Backup Tape Tektronix PLOT 50 System Software Backup Tape Tektronix PLOT 50 Statistics Vol. 2 Tape 1 Tektronix 4051R01 Matrix Functions Instructional Manual Communications Logic LSMC1 Modem Racal-Milgo COM-LINK 7S modem Dialectron S.A.M. Smart Answering Machine Atari STM1 mouse Information Machines MA100 Professional Modem Adapter As always, an index of links to the specific items above is in the New Arrivals Niche: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...72371&range=A1 Remember: you can always make an offer! I'm still catching up after the VCF so if you e-mailed me about something a couple weeks ago please know I will be getting back to you in the next couple days. Thanks! Sellam From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Sun Aug 19 11:27:52 2018 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 18:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: HP scope mailing list In-Reply-To: <46DA3562-3D42-406C-889D-D03D282C87F9@gmail.com> References: <043b01d43457$fcf8cd30$f6ea6790$@gmail.com> <46DA3562-3D42-406C-889D-D03D282C87F9@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Aug 2018, Curious Marc wrote: >> On Aug 17, 2018, at 3:14 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: >> >>> On 2018-08-17 12:40 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote: >>> +1 on the hp_agilent Yahoo group >> >> >> Which at this very moment is MOVING to groups.io: >> >> https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment >> >> Also highly recommended is the TekScopes list if you own/repair any Tek >> gear: >> >> https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics > Ah, excellent, groups.io is so much better. And still, I prefer NNTP :-D Christian From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Sun Aug 19 13:25:21 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 14:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: QED 933 (11/93 clone) and mystery SCSI board Message-ID: <20180819182521.0DE4118C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Glen Slick > A few people bought QED-993 boards from eBay in the last few years. > ... They are set up to use the standard 11/93 console panel, although > only 4 async ports are implemented, not 8. Is there any documentation anywhere? Bitsavers had only a thing on the QED-95. Noel From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Sun Aug 19 15:16:58 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 16:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Australian Computer Museum - HELP Message-ID: <20180819201658.2226118C09D@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Pontus Pihlgren > I hope you can get the help you need. What ever happened about this? I figure the bulldozers must have arrived by now? Noel From guykd at optusnet.com.au Sun Aug 19 17:22:06 2018 From: guykd at optusnet.com.au (Guy Dunphy) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 08:22:06 +1000 Subject: Australian Computer Museum - HELP In-Reply-To: <20180819201658.2226118C09D@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20180820082206.010a0bd8@mail.optusnet.com.au> At 04:16 PM 19/08/2018 -0400, you wrote: >What ever happened about this? I figure the bulldozers must have arrived by >now? > > Noel http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1112-vintage-computer-warehouse-diving/?all (photos) I live 11 km from there. Last week there was no sign of demolition yet. I'll try to get a date for when it will actually be knocked down, and go take photos. For closure. Guy From markarmbrennan at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 16:02:54 2018 From: markarmbrennan at gmail.com (Mark Brennan) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 22:02:54 +0100 Subject: Australian Computer Museum - HELP Message-ID: Hi Noel, I spoke to John last week most things were saved, I am going to try to help them with some archiving of some of the items that were in storage later in the year. But the good news is most things were saved in time. Mark From Michael at jongleur.co.uk Sun Aug 19 17:33:41 2018 From: Michael at jongleur.co.uk (Michael Mulhern) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 08:33:41 +1000 Subject: Australian Computer Museum - HELP In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20180820082206.010a0bd8@mail.optusnet.com.au> References: <20180819201658.2226118C09D@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <3.0.6.32.20180820082206.010a0bd8@mail.optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: The last I?d heard is that it all was packed into containers for ?temporary storage?, while a new Sydney site is investigated. //m On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 8:26 am, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > At 04:16 PM 19/08/2018 -0400, you wrote: > >What ever happened about this? I figure the bulldozers must have arrived > by > >now? > > > > Noel > > > > http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1112-vintage-computer-warehouse-diving/?all > (photos) > > I live 11 km from there. Last week there was no sign of demolition yet. > I'll try to get a date for when it > will actually be knocked down, and go take photos. For closure. > > Guy > -- *Blog: RetroRetrospective ? Fun today with yesterday's gear??.. * *Podcast*: *Retro Computing Roundtable * (Co-Host) From rp at servium.ch Mon Aug 20 13:01:55 2018 From: rp at servium.ch (Rico Pajarola) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 13:01:55 -0500 Subject: QED 933 (11/93 clone) and mystery SCSI board In-Reply-To: <20180819182521.0DE4118C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20180819182521.0DE4118C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: I bought one on ebay a while ago, but I didn't have a QBus enclosure to try it. I finally got an enclosure at VCF west, and I'll give it a try as soon as said enclosure has made the trip home. I never found any information on it except that it is a "compatibility challenged FPGA based 11/93 clone without FPU". If anyone has a manual, that would be great. On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > From: Glen Slick > > > A few people bought QED-993 boards from eBay in the last few years. > > ... They are set up to use the standard 11/93 console panel, although > > only 4 async ports are implemented, not 8. > > Is there any documentation anywhere? Bitsavers had only a thing on the > QED-95. > > Noel > From sales at elecplus.com Mon Aug 20 15:34:49 2018 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 15:34:49 -0500 Subject: I have too many Wyse keyboards! Message-ID: <022a01d438c5$3dd50370$b97f0a50$@com> https://www.elecshopper.com/input-devices/keyboards.html?manufacturer=52 20% off all Wyse keyboards priced more than $25 if you buy 25 or more. Use code WYSE20OFF at checkout. Offer ends 27 Aug 2018. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From silent700 at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 15:55:58 2018 From: silent700 at gmail.com (Jason T) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 15:55:58 -0500 Subject: VCFMW 13: Less Than a Month to Go! Message-ID: Hello classic computing fans! We're entering the final weeks before the big event, and here is an update. If you're subscribed to the mailing list, you've already seen most of this (for review/sharing: https://mailchi.mp/e060dcbd1bfd/vcf-midwest-13-one-month-to-go). - Exhibits: Our exhibitor list has been posted, showing most (but not all!) of the displays you'll see this year. We're happy to once again have a great variety of platforms and eras represented, as well as some new faces alongside our veteran exhibitors. Check it out at: http://vcfmw.org/ex.html - Table space: We are full! Until, that is, we're not. All of the past shows have included several last-minute changes, so space does open up. There is a stand-by list forming; please email me directly if you'd like to be on it. - Presentations: Once again this year we have a full weekend of interesting talks and demos. The schedule (as it stands now) has been posted. All talks are filmed and will be posted online - but they're always much better in person! http://vcfmw.org/pres.html - Hotel: Due to other parties pre-booking a large block of rooms, Friday night (14th) at the Holiday Inn is sold out. If you have not yet reserved a room, please check back with the hotel after 8/27, as any remaining unbooked rooms will be added back to our block on that date. Our block still has rooms for Thursday, Saturday and Sunday nights. - Donations: VCFMW is a community-supported exhibition, free and open to all. Most of our funding comes from either cash donations (online or at the show) or donations of equipment for our community auction. Please consider one or both methods of support. Auction items can be given to VCFMW staff before Saturday afternoon. Purchasing items at the auction also helps - and it's always an event not to be missed! - Free pile: The tradition of the Free Pile continues this year. This is a great way to unload that "junk" (but not too junky) hardware and software and contribute to the classic computing community. Our only request is that you make sure that whatever you leave is gone by 4pm Sunday. We thank you once again for your interest in and support of VCF Midwest and the whole classic computing hobby. We'll see you in a month! -j From useddec at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 03:49:14 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 03:49:14 -0500 Subject: DEC compatible memory and Integrated Solutions boards + Apollo Message-ID: I found another group of quad size memory and a few other items. Please contact me off list if you are interested. Shipping is from 61853. Camintonn CDV-4000 Chrislin CI-MIV8 CLEARPOINT DD072 16MB CLEARPOINT DD080 16MB CLEARPOINT DD082 32MB CLEARPOINT DD090 16MB National Semi NS23-R DATARAM 63016 MS650-BA compatable DATARAM 40919 MS630 Also Integrated Solutions M68000 board and three IS68XM memory 101103 Apollo 0121173-001 with daughter board From francesco.nidito at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 10:38:50 2018 From: francesco.nidito at gmail.com (nids) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 17:38:50 +0200 Subject: Litton Monroe OC-8820 Message-ID: <5b7c320c.1c69fb81.b185a.4ec7@mx.google.com> Hi All ? I recently bought a Litton Monroe OC-8820 but, unfortunately, there were neither software nor manual with the machine. Does anybody in this list have software and / or manuals for the OC-8820? Many thanks in advance, Francesco From aek at bitsavers.org Tue Aug 21 16:44:25 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:44:25 -0700 Subject: How to tell if a Displaywriter 6360 floppy has double-sided drives in it. Message-ID: <31e93c44-a6f8-fa59-04dc-d9517f53fc70@bitsavers.org> I don't know if this is always true, but it appears that the way you can tell is if there is a "T" on the lower right of the 6580 badge on the front. I didn't see this in the documentation anywhere. The controller inside is significantly different (3 boards instead of one). +--------+ | IBM | | | | 6360 | | T| +--------+ There are a couple up on eBay right now from seller 'potomacestore' Double-sided 6360s seem to be much less common than single-sided. From nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com Tue Aug 21 17:28:08 2018 From: nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com (Nigel Williams) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:28:08 +1000 Subject: How to tell if a Displaywriter 6360 floppy has double-sided drives in it. In-Reply-To: <31e93c44-a6f8-fa59-04dc-d9517f53fc70@bitsavers.org> References: <31e93c44-a6f8-fa59-04dc-d9517f53fc70@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 7:44 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > I don't know if this is always true, but it appears that the way you can > tell is if there is a "T" on the lower right of the 6580 badge on the front. Possible, I don't recall anything in the docs to confirm. The only way I know is by the 6360 model numbers: 6360-010 one drive, single sided 6360-011 two drives, single sided 6360-020 one drive, single or double sided 6360-022 two drives, single or double sided > The controller inside is significantly different (3 boards instead of one). Keep in mind that communications options also sit in side the 6360 drive unit, so the additional boards could be for these options. > There are a couple up on eBay right now from seller 'potomacestore' > Double-sided 6360s seem to be much less common than single-sided. My eBay-search-fu is weak, weirdly I cannot see any items in the store for that seller. From aek at bitsavers.org Tue Aug 21 20:14:00 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:14:00 -0700 Subject: How to tell if a Displaywriter 6360 floppy has double-sided drives in it. In-Reply-To: References: <31e93c44-a6f8-fa59-04dc-d9517f53fc70@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: 192627514590 and 123311208476 On 8/21/18 3:28 PM, Nigel Williams via cctalk wrote: > My eBay-search-fu is weak, weirdly I cannot see any items in the store > for that seller. > From useddec at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 01:21:48 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 01:21:48 -0500 Subject: DEC compatible memory and Integrated Solutions boards + Apollo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also found: Camington CMX-3251 Camintonn CMX-4200 DEC M7621-A On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 3:49 AM, Paul Anderson wrote: > I found another group of quad size memory and a few other items. Please > contact me off list if you are interested. Shipping is from 61853. > > > Camintonn CDV-4000 > > > > Chrislin CI-MIV8 > > > > CLEARPOINT DD072 16MB > > > > CLEARPOINT DD080 16MB > > > > CLEARPOINT DD082 32MB > > > > CLEARPOINT DD090 16MB > > > > National Semi NS23-R > > > > DATARAM 63016 MS650-BA compatable > > > > DATARAM 40919 MS630 > > > > Also Integrated Solutions M68000 board and three IS68XM memory 101103 > > > Apollo 0121173-001 with daughter board > > From mattislind at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 01:50:22 2018 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:50:22 +0200 Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. Message-ID: I unearthed some old TU58 tapes that luckily was readable (after carefully replacing the tension band) It resulted in two RT11 V4 images with two versions of the formatter program. One is bootable and the other not. http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/Dilog/DQ604/sq604c.dsk http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/Dilog/DQ604/sq604d.dsk I tried to run the formatter program in Simh: .run sq604C.sav TEST AND FORMAT DQ604 DISK SYSTEM (REV C.) DRIVE FORMATS AS RL01 UNIT (5.24 MB) SWITCH 3 CLOSED ENABLES BOOTSTRAP THERE ARE 17 PHYSICAL SECTORS PER TRACK (2) ALTERNATE CYLINDERS MAY BE ASSIGNED PER UNIT THE INTERLACE FACTORS ARE TWO OR THREE TO ONE DATA BUFFER ERROR USE PROCEED (P) TO REPEAT TEST HALT instruction, PC: 006312 (BR 6202) .RUN SQ604D TEST AND FORMAT DQ604 DISK SYSTEM (REV C.) DRIVE FORMATS AS RL02 UNIT (10.48 MB) SWITCH 3 CLOSED ENABLES BOOTSTRAP THERE ARE 17 PHYSICAL SECTORS PER TRACK (4) ALTERNATE CYLINDERS MAY BE ASSIGNED PER UNIT THE INTERLACE FACTORS ARE TWO OR THREE TO ONE DATA BUFFER ERROR USE PROCEED (P) TO REPEAT TEST HALT instruction, PC: 006312 (BR 6202) So it appears to be runnable. I also found the manual for the board and scanned it: http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/Dilog/DQ604/DQ604.pdf Now the next step is to see if this can make the DQ604 board I have working with David Gessweins MFM emulator. From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 07:37:56 2018 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:37:56 +0000 Subject: DEC compatible memory and Integrated Solutions boards + Apollo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any chance you (or anyone for that matter) have software for the Integrated Solutions board?? I have two of them but no software. bill On 08/22/2018 02:21 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > Also found: > > Camington CMX-3251 > > > Camintonn CMX-4200 > > > DEC M7621-A > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 3:49 AM, Paul Anderson wrote: > >> I found another group of quad size memory and a few other items. Please >> contact me off list if you are interested. Shipping is from 61853. >> >> >> Camintonn CDV-4000 >> >> >> >> Chrislin CI-MIV8 >> >> >> >> CLEARPOINT DD072 16MB >> >> >> >> CLEARPOINT DD080 16MB >> >> >> >> CLEARPOINT DD082 32MB >> >> >> >> CLEARPOINT DD090 16MB >> >> >> >> National Semi NS23-R >> >> >> >> DATARAM 63016 MS650-BA compatable >> >> >> >> DATARAM 40919 MS630 >> >> >> >> Also Integrated Solutions M68000 board and three IS68XM memory 101103 >> >> >> Apollo 0121173-001 with daughter board >> >> From schlae at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 08:28:47 2018 From: schlae at gmail.com (Eric Schlaepfer) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 06:28:47 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive Message-ID: Yesterday I dug out my prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive and took some photos: https://twitter.com/TubeTimeUS/status/1032066215647166464. It caused a bit of interest on Twitter so I figured some of you here may also like seeing it. I don't really know a whole lot about it other than what my grandfather told me (he worked on the team that developed it). Dates on the remaining paperwork go from December 1979 through August 1980. It was supposed to be a very low cost drive for the microcomputer market (target price IIRC was <$100). Although it was originally developed by a team working at IBM Austin, it was handed off to a different team apparently working out of Rochester. The disk capacity was not very large--I don't remember the exact number but it was probably around 100K or less. A few interesting observations: * The stepper motor uses a spiral cam to convert rotation into linear motion to drive the head. * It is a single-sided drive. * A microswitch senses the presence of the disk instead of an optical pair. * There is no write protect notch or sensor. * There is no index sensor. * The spindle drive motor is a DC brushed motor with an encoder wheel for speed control. * Not shown in the pics, but the plastic "spot welds" holding the vinyl jackets on the disks are intentionally widely spaced making the cookie easier to remove for analysis. It's not really something you get to see every day, that's for sure... --Eric From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 22 10:17:30 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:17:30 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> Nice to see that someone managed to hang onto one of these. To offer a bit more information on the "battle of the shirt-pocket floppy", IBM wasn't competing just against the Sony 3.5" format, but also the Dysan/Shugart 3.25" format, which, as is the IBM prototype, more in the 5.25" true "floppy" format. The field is littered with casualties. Amstrad used the 3.0 inch CF format for a time; Zenith had the "shrunken" 2.5" size....etc. etc. All in all, I think the right format won the battle--3.5" floppies are physically pretty rugged. Not that any of this matters today. :) --Chuck On 08/22/2018 06:28 AM, Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk wrote: > Yesterday I dug out my prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive and took some > photos: https://twitter.com/TubeTimeUS/status/1032066215647166464. It > caused a bit of interest on Twitter so I figured some of you here may also > like seeing it. > > I don't really know a whole lot about it other than what my grandfather > told me (he worked on the team that developed it). Dates on the remaining > paperwork go from December 1979 through August 1980. It was supposed to be > a very low cost drive for the microcomputer market (target price IIRC was > <$100). Although it was originally developed by a team working at IBM > Austin, it was handed off to a different team apparently working out of > Rochester. > > The disk capacity was not very large--I don't remember the exact number but > it was probably around 100K or less. > > A few interesting observations: > > * The stepper motor uses a spiral cam to convert rotation into linear > motion to drive the head. > * It is a single-sided drive. > * A microswitch senses the presence of the disk instead of an optical pair. > * There is no write protect notch or sensor. > * There is no index sensor. > * The spindle drive motor is a DC brushed motor with an encoder wheel for > speed control. > * Not shown in the pics, but the plastic "spot welds" holding the vinyl > jackets on the disks are intentionally widely spaced making the cookie > easier to remove for analysis. > > It's not really something you get to see every day, that's for sure... From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 22 10:33:14 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 08:33:14 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> Message-ID: <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> Out of curiosity, I measured the pocket the shirt I'm wearing. About 3.75" wide, so a 4" floppy would definitely not fit, while a 3.5" floppy fits comfortably. FWIW. --Chuck From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 22 12:16:12 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:16:12 -0700 Subject: DEC compatible memory and Integrated Solutions boards + Apollo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/22/18 5:37 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Any chance you (or anyone for that matter) have software for > > the Integrated Solutions board? I have it. They also made a VME version Docs up on bitsavers. From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 22 12:37:16 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:37:16 -0700 Subject: DEC compatible memory and Integrated Solutions boards + Apollo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/22/18 5:37 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Any chance you (or anyone for that matter) have software for > > the Integrated Solutions board? I have a couple of tapes uploaded already, I have a bunch more. http://bitsavers.org/bits/IntegratedSolutions From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 12:44:51 2018 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 17:44:51 +0000 Subject: DEC compatible memory and Integrated Solutions boards + Apollo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What kind of media is it on and can I get a copy? I have the docs. bill On 08/22/2018 01:16 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 8/22/18 5:37 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> Any chance you (or anyone for that matter) have software for >> >> the Integrated Solutions board? > I have it. > They also made a VME version > Docs up on bitsavers. > > > From bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 12:45:37 2018 From: bill.gunshannon at hotmail.com (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 17:45:37 +0000 Subject: DEC compatible memory and Integrated Solutions boards + Apollo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Al.? Seems we can always rely on you to come thru. bill On 08/22/2018 01:37 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 8/22/18 5:37 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> Any chance you (or anyone for that matter) have software for >> >> the Integrated Solutions board? > I have a couple of tapes uploaded already, I have a bunch more. > > http://bitsavers.org/bits/IntegratedSolutions > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 22 12:47:15 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Out of curiosity, I measured the pocket the shirt I'm wearing. > About 3.75" wide, so a 4" floppy would definitely not fit, while a 3.5" > floppy fits comfortably. > FWIW. Well, that was a significant part of the "shirt pocket disk" arguments. George Morrow said, "Why don't we just negotiate with the garment industry to make shirt pockets five and a quarter inches?" 3" (Amstrad) and 3.5" (Sony) made it to market. The Demi-Diskette never made it to market. The 3.25" ALMOST made it to market. It was used on the "Seequa Chameleon 325". So technically, it made it to market. Dysan (3.25") did not want to go with a hard shell. The 3.25" had a metal center hub, but was the same jacket material as 5.25 and 8 inch. Besides shirt pocket dimensions, Dysan reasoned that the winner would be the one that had software availability. So, they bet the company (literally) on software publishing in 3.25". For a brief time, you could have purchased most of the major software packages on 3.25" disk! Dysan software publishing had more titles than Lifeboat. When that did NOT win the war, Dysan never really recovered. The 3.25" drives and diskettes that I have came from MicroPro (Wordstar). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 22 13:41:16 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:41:16 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> Message-ID: <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> On 08/22/2018 10:47 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > The 3.25" ALMOST made it to market.? It was used on the "Seequa > Chameleon 325".? So technically, it made it to market. > Dysan (3.25") did not want to go with a hard shell.? The 3.25" had a > metal center hub, but was the same jacket material as 5.25 and 8 inch. > Besides shirt pocket dimensions, Dysan reasoned that the winner would be > the one that had software availability.? So, they bet the company > (literally) on software publishing in 3.25".? For a brief time, you > could have purchased most of the major software packages on 3.25" disk!? > Dysan software publishing had more titles than Lifeboat.? When that did > NOT win the war, Dysan never really recovered. The 3.25" drives and > diskettes that I have came from MicroPro (Wordstar). I believe that's my photo of a 3.25" floppy over on Wikipedia. Still have a couple of drives and boxes of media to go with them. I think most owners of the Chameleon 325 swapped out the drives for conventional 3.5" ones eventually. The interface is the same. I recall seeing some 3.25" drives back in the day on one of the shelves of Haltek (not Halted) marked "Shugart Venture". A venture that got nowhere. I do miss the old Haltek. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 22 13:48:28 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:48:28 -0700 Subject: DTC TakeTen media? Message-ID: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> On the subject of oddball PC media, does anyone out there have media for the DTC "Take Ten" cartridge drive? I've got the drive here, still in original shrink-wrap and packaging, but no media, so I don't have the faintest idea if it still works. As the 5.25" cartridges only held 10MB, I suspect this was a flash-in-the-pan venture. I'd never heard of one back in the day when everyone was using Bernoulli drives. --Chuck From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 22 14:09:40 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:09:40 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: On 8/22/18 11:41 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I recall seeing some 3.25" drives back in the day on one of the shelves > of Haltek (not Halted) marked "Shugart Venture". A venture that got > nowhere. > > if you google around there is an FTC complaint filed by Tandon about the Shugart Ventures drives. I just picked up a Model 350 on eBay, just because I'd never seen a Shugart sub 5" drive. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sankyo-Shugart-Venture-Model-350-Computer-Disk-Drive-/253708808435 From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 22 14:10:44 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:10:44 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: <9dc3a95f-564d-b803-ba89-c0903b469d03@bitsavers.org> On 8/22/18 12:09 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > if you google around there is an FTC complaint filed by Tandon about > the Shugart Ventures drives. > https://www.usitc.gov/publications/337/pub1860.pdf From aek at bitsavers.org Wed Aug 22 14:13:27 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:13:27 -0700 Subject: ISO Dura 1021 or 1041 terminal docs Message-ID: some local folks have picked up a few of these, so I thought I'd ask if anyone has any documentation beyond what I put up on bitsavers yesterday they are modified Selectric mechanisms with serial I/O and paper tape reader/punches From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Wed Aug 22 15:08:43 2018 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:08:43 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: <001d01d43a53$edf54dc0$c9dfe940$@net> > I just picked up a Model 350 on eBay, just because I'd never seen > a Shugart sub 5" drive. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sankyo-Shugart-Venture-Model-350- > Computer-Disk-Drive-/253708808435 Interesting. I wonder if IBM was looking at those drives for use. The seller (or more accurately the seller's father) used to work for IBM Industrial services in Boca Raton. -Ali From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 22 15:25:08 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: <001d01d43a53$edf54dc0$c9dfe940$@net> References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> <001d01d43a53$edf54dc0$c9dfe940$@net> Message-ID: >> I just picked up a Model 350 on eBay, just because I'd never seen >> a Shugart sub 5" drive. >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sankyo-Shugart-Venture-Model-350- >> Computer-Disk-Drive-/253708808435 On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Interesting. I wonder if IBM was looking at those drives for use. The seller (or more accurately the seller's father) used to work for IBM Industrial services in Boca Raton. Well, the SA300 (single sided version) were not the first 3.5" drives, but they may have been the first 300 RPM ones with an SA400 interface. (The Sony 600RPM drives would require more changes) The SA300 could be dropped into a 5150 (with only issues of mounting brackets (Erector set) and power connector) and were supported by some OEM versions of MS-DOS 2.11. IBM public support of 3.5" began with PC-DOS 3.20. From spacewar at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 15:31:35 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:31:35 -0600 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > I just picked up a Model 350 on eBay, just because I'd never seen > a Shugart sub 5" drive. > Unfortunately I don't recall the model number, but there was a Shugart 5 1/4" drive that made it at least to prototype and field test around late 1980 or early 1981. It was supposed to be really inexpensive, but almost plug-compatible with standard drives like the SA400. Unlike the SA390, it did have electronics. Instead of being built on an aluminum casting, it only had bent metal. The head stepping mechanism worked like an 8-track tape. It used a solenoid to advance one track inward; the only way to go outward was the next step from the innermost track returned to the outermost (track 0). The single track step time was incredibly slow; I think it was around 750ms, vs 40ms for an SA400. My employer at the time, Apparat, then famous for NewDOS-80 for the TRS-80, had one for evaluation, but decided not to resell them. It would have required special software support, which Apparat could have put in NewDOS-80. Presumably patches could have been offered for other TRS-80 operating systems. I wasn't told what the retail price of the drive would have been, but I don't think it would have sold well even at 1/4 the price of an SA400. From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 22 16:11:24 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:11:24 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: <62dcad41-9ba6-45b0-d365-1f6d937455da@sydex.com> On 08/22/2018 01:31 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > Re: Shugart 5.25" floppy > Instead of being built on an aluminum casting, it only had bent metal. The > head stepping mechanism worked like an 8-track tape. It used a solenoid to > advance one track inward; the only way to go outward was the next step from > the innermost track returned to the outermost (track 0). The single track > step time was incredibly slow; I think it was around 750ms, vs 40ms for an > SA400. If done right, there's nothing wrong with sheet metal. The early Micropolis 5.25" drives were built that way and were surprisingly heavy and expensive. Eventually, Micropolis went to a cast body, sort of like everyone else--but not quite. Rather than having the positioner (stepper and leadscrew) attached to the main body, it was attached to the movable "latching" part, which was also cast. Then there was the early Teac with a plastic (resin?) body... --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 22 16:11:56 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > Unfortunately I don't recall the model number, but there was a Shugart 5 > 1/4" drive that made it at least to prototype and field test around late > 1980 or early 1981. It was supposed to be really inexpensive, but almost > plug-compatible with standard drives like the SA400. Unlike the SA390, it > did have electronics. > Instead of being built on an aluminum casting, it only had bent metal. The > head stepping mechanism worked like an 8-track tape. It used a solenoid to > advance one track inward; the only way to go outward was the next step from > the innermost track returned to the outermost (track 0). The single track > step time was incredibly slow; I think it was around 750ms, vs 40ms for an > SA400. > My employer at the time, Apparat, then famous for NewDOS-80 for the TRS-80, > had one for evaluation, but decided not to resell them. It would have > required special software support, which Apparat could have put in > NewDOS-80. Presumably patches could have been offered for other TRS-80 > operating systems. > I wasn't told what the retail price of the drive would have been, but I > don't think it would have sold well even at 1/4 the price of an SA400. Neat! That could have given Exatron Stringy Floppy a run for the money! Both in terms of CHEAP ("race to the bottom"), low-speed, and probably reliability. Are you sure that that was 750ms track to track step, not 75ms? There were a few 128K machines then. Easiest patches to get around the ridiculously slow speed (going from track 17 (TRS-DOS directory) to track 16 would require 750ms per track to 34 or 39, recalibrate (seek to 0, probably LESS than 750ms) and step 750ms per track from 0 to 16) would have been to cache a dozen tracks, particularly directory, in RAM. 'Course those opting for 128K would also spend the premium for a half-decent drive, . . . It would also argue for the track 0 directory (PC-DOS, Mac, etc.) V the "seek center" track 17 of TRS-DOS, etc. I wonder why Radio Shack didn't consider THAT for the CoCo? They did everything else they could to sabotage it into being a home kids machine and avoid it being usable for anything further. (chiclets keyboard, RF without composite video, 32 characters per line, . . . some of which could be fixed) You will recall that the use of the QumeTrak 142 drive in "PortablePC" (5155) and PCJr required a change in PC-DOS 2.00 to 2.10 for slower step time. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From spacewar at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 16:19:05 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:19:05 -0600 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Are you sure that that was 750ms track to track step, not 75ms? > Yes. From innermost track back to track 0 was even slower. From oltmansg at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 19:43:54 2018 From: oltmansg at gmail.com (Geoff Oltmans) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 19:43:54 -0500 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D15FAA6-5E8A-4BFB-A810-6E048B2552CC@gmail.com> > On Aug 22, 2018, at 8:28 AM, Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk wrote: > > Yesterday I dug out my prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive and took some > photos: https://twitter.com/TubeTimeUS/status/1032066215647166464. It > caused a bit of interest on Twitter so I figured some of you here may also > like seeing it. > Very cool! Definitely the coolest floppy format I?ve seen since the Olivetti minidisc. From chd at chdickman.com Wed Aug 22 20:16:05 2018 From: chd at chdickman.com (Charles Dickman) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 21:16:05 -0400 Subject: IBM Model M keyboard for 3192 Message-ID: I got a box of miscellaneous model M keyboards last week. One of them has 122 keys and the connector is the size of a PC/AT type circular DIN connector, but the 5 pins are spread over 240deg instead of the AT's 180deg. The part no. is 1390702 and a little research found it is from an IBM 3192 terminal. Is it electrically/protocol compatible with the PC/AT and PS/2 keyboard or a different animal completely? -chuck From tdk.knight at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 20:23:49 2018 From: tdk.knight at gmail.com (Adrian Stoness) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:23:49 -0500 Subject: IBM Model M keyboard for 3192 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: prolly not as u could unplug those cords i thought On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 8:16 PM Charles Dickman via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I got a box of miscellaneous model M keyboards last week. One of them > has 122 keys and the connector is the size of a PC/AT type circular > DIN connector, but the 5 pins are spread over 240deg instead of the > AT's 180deg. The part no. is 1390702 and a little research found it is > from an IBM 3192 terminal. > > Is it electrically/protocol compatible with the PC/AT and PS/2 > keyboard or a different animal completely? > > -chuck > From elson at pico-systems.com Wed Aug 22 20:58:02 2018 From: elson at pico-systems.com (Jon Elson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:58:02 -0500 Subject: ISO Dura 1021 or 1041 terminal docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B7E14AA.50600@pico-systems.com> On 08/22/2018 02:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > some local folks have picked up a few of these, so I thought I'd ask > if anyone has any documentation beyond what I put up on bitsavers yesterday > > they are modified Selectric mechanisms with serial I/O and paper tape reader/punches > > > OH, WOW! I had one of these in about 1979-1980. It had all discrete transistor logic (mostly just to convert between EIA and the selectric codes.) I'm not sure I EVER had full schematics, but I did get it running as a computer printer on my CP/M system. A quick look did not turn up any info on it, though. Jon From steven at malikoff.com Wed Aug 22 21:56:10 2018 From: steven at malikoff.com (steven at malikoff.com) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:56:10 +1000 Subject: ISO Dura 1021 or 1041 terminal docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Al said > some local folks have picked up a few of these, so I thought I'd ask > if anyone has any documentation beyond what I put up on bitsavers yesterday > > they are modified Selectric mechanisms with serial I/O and paper tape reader/punches The book 'The Selectric Interface A Hands-on Approach' by George Young covers the Dura 1041 and has a few chapters covering detailed instructions, schematics and PROM codes to interface the 1041 to a microcomputer. I'd say definately worth finding a copy if you have a 1041. Steve. From cclist at sydex.com Wed Aug 22 21:59:57 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 19:59:57 -0700 Subject: Tape end retainers--followup Message-ID: I finally got my package of cling vinyl today and discovered that it is indeed the stuff the vinyl open-reel tape retention strips were made of in the days of yore. The stuff is Grafix-brand "Cling Vinyl", KFC9-ASST. 9 9"x12" paper-backed sheets. Easy enough to cut with scissors or standard paper cutter. 6" long x 3/8" wide seems to be about right. No more foam blocks! --Chuck From jstefanikcctalk at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 22:09:44 2018 From: jstefanikcctalk at gmail.com (Jim Stefanik) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 22:09:44 -0500 Subject: IBM Model M keyboard for 3192 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <28dunsv1iu8ibm1qf66q6tl3.1534993784051@email.android.com> No, this keyboard is not AT compatible. It uses a different protocol. I have a 3192, but I don't have a keyboard for it yet, so I don't know if it differs from the RJ45 style terminal keyboards in just connector or if the protocol is different too. Neither are AT-compatable though. There is a device called a Soarers converter (unsure on spelling) that will convert it to USB and allow it to act as a normal HID keyboard. I haven't played with mine enough to know how well it works, so YMMV. ________________________________ From: Charles Dickman via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2018 20:16 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: IBM Model M keyboard for 3192 I got a box of miscellaneous model M keyboards last week. One of them has 122 keys and the connector is the size of a PC/AT type circular DIN connector, but the 5 pins are spread over 240deg instead of the AT's 180deg. The part no. is 1390702 and a little research found it is from an IBM 3192 terminal. Is it electrically/protocol compatible with the PC/AT and PS/2 keyboard or a different animal completely? -chuck From couryhouse at aol.com Wed Aug 22 22:18:00 2018 From: couryhouse at aol.com (Ed Sharpe) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 23:18:00 -0400 Subject: BBS for RSTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16564c9e671-1eb9-6364@webjas-vae049.srv.aolmail.net> mark hunt that interned? with? dec? in phx? did? have one in the 80's. there is? your? lead if? you? find? him tell him? ed says hi and? give me? a shout! ? Ed Sharpe archivist? for smecc? In a message dated 8/10/2018 6:11:36 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: ? I'm sure it's been years since I've darkened anyone's door around here. I still have this idea that someone should write a proper BBS system (and run it) for RSTS... ...the age old problem is getting data in and out of it to connect it to the world... or one of the problems anyhow. Maybe using a telnet connection to a terminal device and some sort of homebrew message queueing system to an outside helper. Hmmm. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 22 22:34:20 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IBM Model M keyboard for 3192 In-Reply-To: <28dunsv1iu8ibm1qf66q6tl3.1534993784051@email.android.com> References: <28dunsv1iu8ibm1qf66q6tl3.1534993784051@email.android.com> Message-ID: One of you has a keyboard from a 3192, but would like to use it for other systems, such as 5170 AT. One of you has a 3192, but no keyboard for it. Would it be out of line to suggest doing a TRADE? (exchange the 3192 without keyboard for the AT with 3192 keyboard?) (cf. "Gift Of The Magi") > No, this keyboard is not AT compatible. It uses a different protocol. On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Jim Stefanik via cctalk wrote: I have a 3192, but I don't have a keyboard for it yet, so I don't know if it differs from the RJ45 style terminal keyboards in just connector or if the protocol is different too. Neither are AT-compatable though. There is a device called a Soarers converter (unsure on spelling) that will convert it to USB and allow it to act as a normal HID keyboard. I haven't played with mine enough to know how well it works, so YMMV. From useddec at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 01:58:35 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 01:58:35 -0500 Subject: DEC compatible Unibus MOS Message-ID: More sorting, more boards..... 3) DATARAM 40818 (ONE IS ? POPULATED) 2) EMC CORP 240-010-900 512KB EMC CORP 240-012-900 4MB MOSTEK MK8044 ASM 6805 MOTOROLA MM19 ? POPULATED 1 BROKEN CHIP NATIONAL SEMI 551109202 PLESSEY 701295 128KB HAS BROKEN CHIPS STANDARD MEM MM-144 TRENDATA STANDARD MEM MM-135 2) TRENDATA STANDARD MEM MM-140 From stefan.skoglund at agj.net Thu Aug 23 04:02:50 2018 From: stefan.skoglund at agj.net (Stefan Skoglund) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:02:50 +0200 Subject: 400Hz supplies; was: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz? In-Reply-To: <498ced07-d091-f60c-7df4-f9d137db9df8@sydex.com> References: <164d7ee7687-c8a-4338@webjas-vad021.srv.aolmail.net> <498ced07-d091-f60c-7df4-f9d137db9df8@sydex.com> Message-ID: tor 2018-07-26 klockan 12:15 -0700 skrev Chuck Guzis via cctalk: > On 07/26/2018 11:51 AM, Ed Sharpe wrote: > > > > smecc has stashed a huge mother gen set 115 60cy in 115 > > 400 cy out. was used to run rca avq 10 raradr.... > > we have.... > > but could run many many things... it is huge,,, these things > > exist out there if you need one,... > > 400Hz power was also used in aviation gear. I remember having a > stock > of small surplus 400Hz transformers salvaged from various bits of > equipment purchased on Chicago's "Surplus Row". > > Transformers are much smaller than their 50/60 Hz cousins. > > On the other hand, when I worked in a steel mill, much of the power > distribution was 25Hz. Transformers were much larger. At some > point, > one of the mills converted their lighting from incandescent to > mercury-vapor running from that 25Hz supply. I'm surprised that > nobody > experienced seizures from the flicker. > The electric arc furnace works much better at 25 Hz. The hydro power station in Trollh?ttan was first built as a 25 Hz because : desiredness of electric power for the metallurgical industry in Trollh?tan. Trouble: the other intended customer Gothenburg city wanted 50 Hz. The last 25 Hz generator in Trollh?ttan was taken off the electric grid in 1959. From mattislind at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 07:56:28 2018 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 14:56:28 +0200 Subject: Scans of VT05, RK05 and PC04 IPB, TC11 Formatter doc and DC013 chip doc Message-ID: I scanned some more documents: The version of the TC11 formatter manual online is not matching the binary that is available. This one is a later version which is a better match. http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC/DEC-11-YPTC-D_TC11_DECTAPE_FORMATTER.pdf I found three IPBs. I couldn't find them directly on bisavers: http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC/DEC-PC04-IPB-1.pdf http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC/DEC-VT05-IPB-1.pdf http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC/DEC-RK05-IPB-1.pdf Finally I found a copy from a book that is about the DC013 chip - not the best copy unfortunately. But I haven't found anything like this online. http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC/DC013.pdf /Mattis From sales at elecplus.com Thu Aug 23 13:19:51 2018 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:19:51 -0500 Subject: Using M122 keyboards on a PC Message-ID: <065c01d43b0d$e2c434b0$a84c9e10$@com> Orihalcon sells nifty Soarers converter cables that let you use most terminal keyboards on a PC. But please be aware that ONLY the keys found on a normal PC keyboard will work! You can do some remapping, but F13-F24 will not be available, and some keys will not operate the same as they did on the original keyboard. I have used these to test Wyse (with removable cables), IBM, and a bunch of AT and XT keyboards. They do not work for ADDS keyboards. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Thu Aug 23 13:36:50 2018 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:36:50 -0700 Subject: Using M122 keyboards on a PC In-Reply-To: <065c01d43b0d$e2c434b0$a84c9e10$@com> References: <065c01d43b0d$e2c434b0$a84c9e10$@com> Message-ID: <005801d43b10$426444d0$c72cce70$@net> > terminal keyboards on a PC. But please be aware that ONLY the keys > found on > a normal PC keyboard will work! You can do some remapping, but F13-F24 > will > not be available, and some keys will not operate the same as they did > on the > original keyboard. I have used these to test Wyse (with removable This is incorrect. The Soarer convertor is made for IBM KBs so it may have issues with Wyse KBs. However, on IBM 122 key KBs it works beautifully. You can remap ALL the keys including F13-F24. I have as my main KB an IBM F122 KB w/ the LED lights. I have F13-F24 remapped to windows, menu, and media keys w/ new key caps from Unicomp. -Ali From t.gardner at computer.org Thu Aug 23 13:43:05 2018 From: t.gardner at computer.org (Tom Gardner) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:43:05 -0700 Subject: First 3.5 inch FDD [WAS: RE: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive] Message-ID: <00a501d43b11$217733d0$64659b70$@computer.org> Well it all depends upon what u mean by "first" The Sony drive and cartridge were not compatible in many ways with what became the physical, magnetic and electrical interface standards for the 3.5-inch drive and cartridge. The standards came out of the "Microfloppy Industry Committee" (Google it with quotes) organized by Shugart Corp. Either Shugart or Tandon was the first to ship drives compatible to the standard. Tandon probably did the first such cartridge. The original Sony drive and cartridge died out and Sony didn't come out with a compatible set until well after Shugart and Tandon. The early adopters of the Sony design like HP then changed to the industry standard design. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin [mailto:cisin at xenosoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:25 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive >> I just picked up a Model 350 on eBay, just because I'd never seen a >> Shugart sub 5" drive. >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sankyo-Shugart-Venture-Model-350- >> Computer-Disk-Drive-/253708808435 On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Interesting. I wonder if IBM was looking at those drives for use. The seller (or more accurately the seller's father) used to work for IBM Industrial services in Boca Raton. Well, the SA300 (single sided version) were not the first 3.5" drives, but they may have been the first 300 RPM ones with an SA400 interface. (The Sony 600RPM drives would require more changes) The SA300 could be dropped into a 5150 (with only issues of mounting brackets (Erector set) and power connector) and were supported by some OEM versions of MS-DOS 2.11. IBM public support of 3.5" began with PC-DOS 3.20. From t.gardner at computer.org Thu Aug 23 13:51:09 2018 From: t.gardner at computer.org (Tom Gardner) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:51:09 -0700 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> Message-ID: <00a601d43b12$420f5c20$c62e1460$@computer.org> It was the SA200 a 2/3rds height (51 mm) 5?-inch FDD at $118 in quantities of 5,000 or more. It was sold in 1982 but got killed by the true ? heights which Shugart OEMed from Matsushita. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:spacewar at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:32 PM To: Al Kossow; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > I just picked up a Model 350 on eBay, just because I'd never seen a > Shugart sub 5" drive. > Unfortunately I don't recall the model number, but there was a Shugart 5 1/4" drive that made it at least to prototype and field test around late 1980 or early 1981. It was supposed to be really inexpensive, but almost plug-compatible with standard drives like the SA400. Unlike the SA390, it did have electronics. Instead of being built on an aluminum casting, it only had bent metal. The head stepping mechanism worked like an 8-track tape. It used a solenoid to advance one track inward; the only way to go outward was the next step from the innermost track returned to the outermost (track 0). The single track step time was incredibly slow; I think it was around 750ms, vs 40ms for an SA400. My employer at the time, Apparat, then famous for NewDOS-80 for the TRS-80, had one for evaluation, but decided not to resell them. It would have required special software support, which Apparat could have put in NewDOS-80. Presumably patches could have been offered for other TRS-80 operating systems. I wasn't told what the retail price of the drive would have been, but I don't think it would have sold well even at 1/4 the price of an SA400. From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 23 14:19:39 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:19:39 -0700 Subject: First 3.5 inch FDD [WAS: RE: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive] In-Reply-To: <00a501d43b11$217733d0$64659b70$@computer.org> References: <00a501d43b11$217733d0$64659b70$@computer.org> Message-ID: On 08/23/2018 11:43 AM, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote: > Well it all depends upon what u mean by "first" > > The Sony drive and cartridge were not compatible in many ways with what > became the physical, magnetic and electrical interface standards for the > 3.5-inch drive and cartridge. The standards came out of the "Microfloppy > Industry Committee" (Google it with quotes) organized by Shugart Corp. > Either Shugart or Tandon was the first to ship drives compatible to the > standard. Tandon probably did the first such cartridge. I must confess some bewilderment. Around 1981, I did some contract work for an outfit called Preis for their portable computer. I don't recall the nature of the work anymore, but I still have a copy of their BIOS for CP/M. At any rate, the thing used the Sony 0A-D30 single-sided 600 RPM floppies, which held about half as much as the corresponding 8" media (in FM, about 160KB). The major differences were that the Sony drive could access only 70 cylinders, while the 8" drives could do 77. In addition, the Sony spun at 600 RPM, which allowed for the use of an 8" drive interface, albeit at a reduced track capacity over the 8" drive. One other notable aspect was that the Sony's 26-pin interface had no motor control line--the disk spun continuously, just like its 8" relatives. Similarly, it had a head-load solenoid, just like the 8" drives. Media-wise, I believe there was little difference between the Sony floppies and more modern DS2D commodity media. I believe the disk shutters were not sprung, but were manual. I used to have a couple of these drives, but scrapped them because the modern slow 3.5" drives did a better job of handling floppies. Where Shugart fits into all of this, I have no idea. --Chuck From spacewar at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 14:32:52 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:32:52 -0600 Subject: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive In-Reply-To: <00a601d43b12$420f5c20$c62e1460$@computer.org> References: <841a8f70-565e-349f-d55c-d26ac9c5fc22@sydex.com> <9d6eb5b4-885c-e49b-af43-1161c2ec7e61@sydex.com> <83972bca-afa8-13e4-eba5-32fbe419e1bf@sydex.com> <00a601d43b12$420f5c20$c62e1460$@computer.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: > It was the SA200 a 2/3rds height (51 mm) 5?-inch FDD at $118 in quantities > of 5,000 or more. It was sold in 1982 but got killed by the true ? > heights which Shugart OEMed from Matsushita. > Hi Tom, The SA200 came later, and just from the photographs I can tell that it was a much better-engineered drive than the one I'm referring to. http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102677924 http://engineeringhistory.tumblr.com/post/92146695534/shugarts-sa200-525-minifloppy-disk-drive The drives I saw in 1980 were prototypes or engineering samples, and didn't look at all like the SA200. From t.gardner at computer.org Thu Aug 23 14:33:25 2018 From: t.gardner at computer.org (Tom Gardner) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:33:25 -0700 Subject: DTC TakeTen media? In-Reply-To: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> References: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> Message-ID: <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> According to DTC's 1987 prospectus the Company began limited shipments of its TakeTen 10-megabyte removable-cartridge disk drive in December 1986. The TakeTen is based on technology developed by Data Technology in collaboration with Eastman Kodak. The storage cartridge is manufactured by Verbatim Corporation (?Verbatim?), an Eastman Kodak subsidiary, and incorporates a high-performance flexible magnetic disk encased in a rigid plastic shell. The Kodak drive was based on a license from DriveTec DTC was acquired Qume and changed its name to Qume. It stopped producing these sorts of drives in 1991 Tom -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Guzis [mailto:cclist at sydex.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 11:48 AM To: CCtalk Subject: DTC TakeTen media? On the subject of oddball PC media, does anyone out there have media for the DTC "Take Ten" cartridge drive? I've got the drive here, still in original shrink-wrap and packaging, but no media, so I don't have the faintest idea if it still works. As the 5.25" cartridges only held 10MB, I suspect this was a flash-in-the-pan venture. I'd never heard of one back in the day when everyone was using Bernoulli drives. --Chuck From spacewar at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 14:37:59 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:37:59 -0600 Subject: First 3.5 inch FDD [WAS: RE: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive] In-Reply-To: <00a501d43b11$217733d0$64659b70$@computer.org> References: <00a501d43b11$217733d0$64659b70$@computer.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Tom Gardner via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Well it all depends upon what u mean by "first" > > The Sony drive and cartridge were not compatible in many ways with what > became the physical, magnetic and electrical interface standards for the > 3.5-inch drive and cartridge. The standards came out of the "Microfloppy > Industry Committee" (Google it with quotes) organized by Shugart Corp. > Either Shugart or Tandon was the first to ship drives compatible to the > standard. Tandon probably did the first such cartridge. > > The original Sony drive and cartridge died out and Sony didn't come out > with > a compatible set until well after Shugart and Tandon. The early adopters > of > the Sony design like HP then changed to the industry standard design. > AFAICT, the only difference was that the pre-standard Sony 3.5-inch diskettes had a manually operated shutter. The manual shutter and automatic shutter 3.5-inch diskettes are interchangeable with some care. For a while, diskettes were sold that had the automatic shutter, but also had a way the user could latch the shutter open, so that they could be used in early drives that didn't have the pin to open the automatic shutter. I only ever saw the manual-shutter drives in Sony and HP equipment, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were some other uses. From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 23 14:54:21 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 12:54:21 -0700 Subject: Scans of VT05, RK05 and PC04 IPB, TC11 Formatter doc and DC013 chip doc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/23/18 5:56 AM, Mattis Lind wrote: > Finally I found a copy from a book that is about the DC013 chip - not the best copy unfortunately. But I haven't found > anything like this online. it's in dec/internal/Semiconductor_Handbook_V1_1987.pdf which I put up about a month ago From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 23 15:00:21 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:00:21 -0700 Subject: Using M122 keyboards on a PC In-Reply-To: <005801d43b10$426444d0$c72cce70$@net> References: <065c01d43b0d$e2c434b0$a84c9e10$@com> <005801d43b10$426444d0$c72cce70$@net> Message-ID: <4fd218b2-302c-8d5f-b5da-9b593bc1a7f1@bitsavers.org> On 8/23/18 11:36 AM, Ali via cctalk wrote: > This is incorrect. The Soarer convertor is made for IBM KBs so it may have > issues with Wyse KBs. he sells another model for 4 pin Wyse From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 23 15:20:56 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:20:56 -0700 Subject: DTC TakeTen media? In-Reply-To: <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> References: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> Message-ID: <8c658b62-0a42-36d6-2f2c-02d9e544a28d@sydex.com> On 08/23/2018 12:33 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: > According to DTC's 1987 prospectus the Company began limited shipments of its TakeTen 10-megabyte removable-cartridge disk drive in December 1986. The TakeTen is based on technology developed by Data Technology in collaboration with Eastman Kodak. The storage cartridge is manufactured by Verbatim Corporation (?Verbatim?), an Eastman Kodak subsidiary, and incorporates a high-performance flexible magnetic disk encased in a rigid plastic shell. > > The Kodak drive was based on a license from DriveTec > > DTC was acquired Qume and changed its name to Qume. > > It stopped producing these sorts of drives in 1991 I got that information from a Google search also, but the thing doesn't take Drivetec media (I have two Drivetec drives--one with Kodak branding). The TakeTen is also SCSI, where the Drivetecs are more-or-less conventional floppy interface. I also seem to recall that the basic Take Ten IP got passed around a bit--was it Quantum that tried to market it? I don't recall. I don't recall seeing any media "in the flesh" for the thing, ever. Kind of odd for something that was in production for 5 years. By 1991, a removable cartridge drive that held only 10MB was ridiculous. The thing that really brought Drivetec down was that you had to use their factory-preformatted embedded-servo floppy media. It was expensive (about $15 each in 1986). I recall a couple of guys flogging the drives, media and controllers at one of the "Computer Faires" after they'd fallen on hard times. I suspect the same situations prevailed with the ill-fated Caleb UHD drive--you had to buy the preformatted media, which could (accidentally or otherwise) be over-written as a normal 3.5" floppy. (I've got a bunch of those as well--ATA interface). --Chuck From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Thu Aug 23 15:37:14 2018 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:37:14 +0200 Subject: Datic 2000 / Ampex 844 Documentation ? Message-ID: Ran into an early CP/M system today, from german company Datic. It is a single-user 8080 system, featuring a delay-line based CRT output and an Ampex 844 fixed platter / removable 14" cartridge driver. Is this simply a Diablo 44 equivalent, as I suspect, or is this a true standalone development from Ampex ? First time I have seen a 14" drive on a CP/M system.... Jos From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 23 15:44:32 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:44:32 -0700 Subject: Datic 2000 / Ampex 844 Documentation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/23/18 1:37 PM, jos via cctalk wrote: > Is this simply a Diablo 44 equivalent, as I suspect, or is this a true standalone development from Ampex ? they made their own http://www.glb-online.com/disk-never-used1.html I'm mostly familiar with their 80mb SMD drives From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 23 15:48:20 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:48:20 -0700 Subject: Datic 2000 / Ampex 844 Documentation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: on the other hand it looks a lot like the Western Dynex drive http://www.glb-online.com/produit5.html http://jim-st.blogspot.com/search/label/dynex http://bitsavers.org/pdf/westernDynex On 8/23/18 1:37 PM, jos via cctalk wrote: > > Ran into an early CP/M system today, from german company Datic. > It is a single-user 8080 system, featuring a delay-line based CRT output and an Ampex 844 fixed platter / removable 14" > cartridge driver. > > Is this simply a Diablo 44 equivalent, as I suspect, or is this a true standalone development from Ampex ? > > First time I have seen a 14" drive on a CP/M system.... > > Jos? From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 23 15:50:33 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:50:33 -0700 Subject: Datic 2000 / Ampex 844 Documentation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7e0caeed-9b63-a60d-b283-24e5e7ae3c8b@bitsavers.org> another one https://forum.classic-computing.org/forum/index.php?thread/13826-datic/ On 8/23/18 1:37 PM, jos via cctalk wrote: > > Ran into an early CP/M system today, from german company Datic. > It is a single-user 8080 system, featuring a delay-line based CRT output and an Ampex 844 fixed platter / removable 14" > cartridge driver. > > Is this simply a Diablo 44 equivalent, as I suspect, or is this a true standalone development from Ampex ? > > First time I have seen a 14" drive on a CP/M system.... > > Jos? From spacewar at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 16:52:32 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 15:52:32 -0600 Subject: DTC TakeTen media? In-Reply-To: <8c658b62-0a42-36d6-2f2c-02d9e544a28d@sydex.com> References: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> <8c658b62-0a42-36d6-2f2c-02d9e544a28d@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 2:20 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > The thing that really brought Drivetec down was that you had to use > their factory-preformatted embedded-servo floppy media. It was > expensive (about $15 each in 1986). > Same with Iomega ZIP disks (introduced 1994, initially $20 medium), but those were wildly successful. I don't think requiring factory-formatted media was really the problem. It seems more likely that the Drivetec disk only having the capacity of seven floppy disks was the problem. From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 23 16:30:29 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 14:30:29 -0700 Subject: DTC TakeTen media? In-Reply-To: <12f64971-0e5d-46fd-26a6-6131d492dd52@jwsss.com> References: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> <12f64971-0e5d-46fd-26a6-6131d492dd52@jwsss.com> Message-ID: <23de1409-4f98-4ab2-6340-10f98b101c75@sydex.com> On 08/23/2018 01:22 PM, jim stephens wrote: > > The Drivetec media was 6mb then 12mb.? The 6mb media worked well if you > repunched the floppies as AT high density media, and when DTC died a > huge amount was sold with instructions on how to do that, as the cost of > media was then still high for 1.2mb media. > I've only seen the 3.3MB and 6.6MB versions. The 3.3 was used on the Kypro "Robie". My 6.6 media was sent to me by the tech support fellow at Verbatim, just before they closed their Santa Clara operation. I already had the drive. The Drivetec drives were also sold by DTC as their "TeamMate" series of external drive/controller combos. There's a German auction of the TakeTen here: https://tinyurl.com/yax6tjvc You can see that the drive slot is considerably thicker than a normal floppy disk--and it's identified as a "Removable Cartridge Disk Drive". Again, I don't recall ever seeing the cartridges. DTC did a lot of strange things. I first knew them as manufacturing a sheet feeder for the Diablo Hitype printer. I still have a few of their disk controller cards and some SCSI controller engineering documents. --Chuck From spacewar at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 17:08:02 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:08:02 -0600 Subject: Datic 2000 / Ampex 844 Documentation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 2:37 PM, jos via cctalk wrote: > First time I have seen a 14" drive on a CP/M system.... > There were some versions of CP/M on the Intel MDS development system (the _original_ CP/M machine) with support for the Intel MDS 740 hard disk system, which was an Intel SBC 206 controller with a CDC 9427H Hawk 14-inch fixed/removable drive, with IBM 5440 style media. I'm not sure whether the CP/M support was provided by Digital Research, or required a third-party BIOS. Starting in 1979, IMSAI sold the CDC Hawk, with support in IMDOS II (a licensed and modified CP/M 1.33). Ohio Scientific offered hard disk systems fairly early on, using 14-inch drives. They supported them in the OS-65U operating system, I suspect that they had CP/M support for them on their systems that included a Z80 processor. The first time I personally used a hard disk with CP/M was in 1981. It was earliest model Corvus disk system that used an IMI 7710 8-inch drive (smoked-plastic enclosure), connected to an Apple II, the latter containing a Microsoft Z80 Softcard. At one point I had to do a low-level format of the drive. You had to get the formatter program from Corvus, and add a jumper to the drive backplane to enable formatting. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 23 18:12:55 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: DTC (Was: DTC TakeTen media? In-Reply-To: <23de1409-4f98-4ab2-6340-10f98b101c75@sydex.com> References: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> <12f64971-0e5d-46fd-26a6-6131d492dd52@jwsss.com> <23de1409-4f98-4ab2-6340-10f98b101c75@sydex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > DTC did a lot of strange things. I first knew them as manufacturing a > sheet feeder for the Diablo Hitype printer. I still have a few of their > disk controller cards and some SCSI controller engineering documents. I had a bunch of their DTC-300 HytypeI daisy wheel printers (KSR terminals) on a pedestal (little card cage in the top back of the pedestal was main obstacle to conversion to table-top; I can't remember whether it was a 4004 or an 8008 that they used) Bringing back 4 of them from a computer swap with a Honda Civic was interesting. From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 23 18:28:22 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:28:22 -0700 Subject: DTC TakeTen media? In-Reply-To: <011b01d43b2d$5310e410$f932ac30$@computer.org> References: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> <12f64971-0e5d-46fd-26a6-6131d492dd52@jwsss.com> <011b01d43b2d$5310e410$f932ac30$@computer.org> Message-ID: <48870a51-deee-d668-33c3-35bee7c417d2@sydex.com> An interesting take on the removable media of the time, circa 188: https://ia601603.us.archive.org/30/items/PC-Mag-1988-09-13/PC-Mag-1988-09-13.pdf Starts on PDF page 213. I don't think that DTC ever made a hard drive, but they did package external drives under the TeamMate product line. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 23 18:30:07 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:30:07 -0700 Subject: DTC (Was: DTC TakeTen media? In-Reply-To: References: <4445dd31-9845-22c4-b7e9-fef50d7e39d5@sydex.com> <00bf01d43b18$299b3b40$7cd1b1c0$@computer.org> <12f64971-0e5d-46fd-26a6-6131d492dd52@jwsss.com> <23de1409-4f98-4ab2-6340-10f98b101c75@sydex.com> Message-ID: <8d23e4f9-c749-f30e-83a2-cd046ea350c4@sydex.com> On 08/23/2018 04:12 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > I had a bunch of their DTC-300 HytypeI daisy wheel printers (KSR > terminals) on a pedestal (little card cage in the top back of the > pedestal was main obstacle to conversion to table-top; I can't remember > whether it was a 4004 or an 8008 that they used) I worked for a few years with ex-Qume employees, who had gone to Qume from Diablo Systems. Things were somewhat more incestuous back then. --Chuck From chd at chdickman.com Thu Aug 23 20:08:08 2018 From: chd at chdickman.com (Charles Dickman) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:08:08 -0400 Subject: NEC Multisync monitor manual Message-ID: I am looking for a manual for the original NEC Multisync monitor. Google fails me because of all the follow on monitors had Multisync in the name. -chuck From schlae at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 21:13:41 2018 From: schlae at gmail.com (Eric Schlaepfer) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:13:41 -0700 Subject: NEC Multisync monitor manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The model number is JC-1401 if that helps. On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 6:08 PM Charles Dickman via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I am looking for a manual for the original NEC Multisync monitor. > > Google fails me because of all the follow on monitors had Multisync in the > name. > > -chuck > From schlae at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 21:29:53 2018 From: schlae at gmail.com (Eric Schlaepfer) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:29:53 -0700 Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA Message-ID: The NEC Multisync monitor thread reminded me that I used one to produce a video, and I thought a few of you might enjoy it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TiHFWH4NWk From alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 21:42:56 2018 From: alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com (Alexandre Souza) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 23:42:56 -0300 Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice! 2018-08-23 23:29 GMT-03:00 Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk : > The NEC Multisync monitor thread reminded me that I used one to produce a > video, and I thought a few of you might enjoy it. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TiHFWH4NWk > From cctalk at ibm51xx.net Thu Aug 23 21:54:42 2018 From: cctalk at ibm51xx.net (Ali) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:54:42 -0700 Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> > > The NEC Multisync monitor thread reminded me that I used one to produce > a > video, and I thought a few of you might enjoy it. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TiHFWH4NWk Eric Which revision MDA is this? I have an original NEC Multisync and I have a tone of MDA cards including one in one the first 5000 IBM 5150s produced. I would love to get color out of it just for the sake of doing it. Do you still have your demo programs? -Ali p.s. What other secrets did the original MDA card have? From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 23 22:24:40 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 20:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> References: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Ali via cctalk wrote: > Which revision MDA is this? I have an original NEC Multisync and I have > a tone of MDA cards including one in one the first 5000 IBM 5150s > produced. I would love to get color out of it just for the sake of doing > it. Do you still have your demo programs? Do any of yours have the 6 pin Berg connector near the top of the mounting plate? Some did. On CGA, that connector is for light pen. Supposedly some early MDAs had pins 3,4,5 connected (not connected in later ones). That MIGHT be the same ones as have the light-pen? connector. https://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/mda.html#cmda http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/early/5150_early.htm From schlae at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 22:31:43 2018 From: schlae at gmail.com (Eric Schlaepfer) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 20:31:43 -0700 Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: References: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> Message-ID: I'm not that lucky! But yes, an early card with the light pen connector should work. The card I used for the demo is a somewhat later revision. I added rework wires to match the schematic in the technical reference manual of the earlier revision. With either an early MDA card or a modded card, if you fire up DOS 5.0 and have QBASIC, you'll find that the COLOR statement... just works! It's quite strange. On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:24 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Ali via cctalk wrote: > > Which revision MDA is this? I have an original NEC Multisync and I have > > a tone of MDA cards including one in one the first 5000 IBM 5150s > > produced. I would love to get color out of it just for the sake of doing > > it. Do you still have your demo programs? > > Do any of yours have the 6 pin Berg connector near the top of the mounting > plate? Some did. On CGA, that connector is for light pen. > Supposedly some early MDAs had pins 3,4,5 connected (not connected in > later ones). That MIGHT be the same ones as have the light-pen? > connector. > > https://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/mda.html#cmda > > http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/early/5150_early.htm > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 23 22:49:15 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 20:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: References: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> Message-ID: OK, so the demo was with a "MODIFIED" card. :-) (admittedly a trivial one that brought it in line with published schematic) Which Int10h modes does it support? QBASIC is presumably simpy using the INt10h modes. The MDA by default was in Mode 7. If it will do mode 3, then it can do Lotus in color, etc. Obviously, it doesn't have the RAM to do any "high resolution" modes, . . . On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Eric Schlaepfer wrote: > I'm not that lucky! But yes, an early card with the light pen connector > should work. > > The card I used for the demo is a somewhat later revision. I added rework > wires to match the schematic in the technical reference manual of the > earlier revision. > > With either an early MDA card or a modded card, if you fire up DOS 5.0 and > have QBASIC, you'll find that the COLOR statement... just works! It's quite > strange. > > On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:24 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > >> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Ali via cctalk wrote: >>> Which revision MDA is this? I have an original NEC Multisync and I have >>> a tone of MDA cards including one in one the first 5000 IBM 5150s >>> produced. I would love to get color out of it just for the sake of doing >>> it. Do you still have your demo programs? >> >> Do any of yours have the 6 pin Berg connector near the top of the mounting >> plate? Some did. On CGA, that connector is for light pen. >> Supposedly some early MDAs had pins 3,4,5 connected (not connected in >> later ones). That MIGHT be the same ones as have the light-pen? >> connector. >> >> https://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/mda.html#cmda >> >> http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/early/5150_early.htm From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 23 23:06:06 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:06:06 -0700 Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: References: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> Message-ID: On 08/23/2018 08:31 PM, Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk wrote: > I'm not that lucky! But yes, an early card with the light pen connector > should work. > > The card I used for the demo is a somewhat later revision. I added rework > wires to match the schematic in the technical reference manual of the > earlier revision. I had the original MDA and a rather ancient light pen from some graphics console or another. I hooked it up to a 6-pin Berg header and got it to work, sort of. I didn't use the interrupt 10h BIOS functions, though, but rather accessed the 6845 registers directly. The operation was pretty terrible. The medium-long persistence of the monochrome monitor led to large positioning errors. I recently sent the pen to Glitch, who hasn't gotten back to me to report wether it still works. It was pretty nice with a pressure-activated tip swich with fiber optics coupled to a phototransistor, with a couple of transistors to boost the signal. Black with a coiled cord--6 conductors, I think. --Chuck From cclist at sydex.com Thu Aug 23 23:08:22 2018 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:08:22 -0700 Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: References: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> Message-ID: <6fb3f01e-d1a3-ae08-381a-7906fbe993a6@sydex.com> Correction--it wasn't Glitch who got the pen, it was Trixter. I have trouble with pseudonyms. --Chuck From useddec at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 04:12:23 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 04:12:23 -0500 Subject: CESI VM8128 PDP8-A 128 K MOS? Message-ID: I have an idea what this might be, but I can't find anything to confirm it on line. Can anyone shine some light on it? Thanks, Paul From rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com Fri Aug 24 06:06:18 2018 From: rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com (Rod G8DGR) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 12:06:18 +0100 Subject: CESI VM8128 PDP8-A 128 K MOS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B0550EE0822813A@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk> (added by postmaster@btinternet.com) M8417 MSC8DJ?PDP8A 128K MOS? Clone of this Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Paul Anderson via cctalk Sent: 24 August 2018 10:12 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; cctech at vax-11.org Subject: CESI VM8128 PDP8-A 128 K MOS? I have an idea what this might be, but I can't find anything to confirm it on line. Can anyone shine some light on it? Thanks, Paul From allisonportable at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 06:38:11 2018 From: allisonportable at gmail.com (allison) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 07:38:11 -0400 Subject: CESI VM8128 PDP8-A 128 K MOS? In-Reply-To: <5b7feb20.1c69fb81.4f75a.79c1SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> References: <5b7feb20.1c69fb81.4f75a.79c1SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4d3c380b-60b6-c827-a467-20dc6bbf7208@gmail.com> On 08/24/2018 07:06 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote: > M8417 MSC8DJ?PDP8A 128K MOS? > > Clone of this > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Paul Anderson via cctalk > Sent: 24 August 2018 10:12 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; cctech at vax-11.org > Subject: CESI VM8128 PDP8-A 128 K MOS? > > I have an idea what this might be, but I can't find anything to confirm it > on line. Can anyone shine some light on it? > > Thanks, Paul > its a 128 memory card If memory is right hex width for PDP-8A... The last of the omnibus 8s. That machine had extended the MMU used in earlier PDP-8 from 3 EMA lines to 5. Only fits the 8A chassis. Allison From schlae at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 11:37:54 2018 From: schlae at gmail.com (Eric Schlaepfer) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 09:37:54 -0700 Subject: The near-mythical IBM color MDA In-Reply-To: References: <008a01d43b55$cf70c480$6e524d80$@net> Message-ID: It only supports mode 7 since it's an MDA card. :) The QBASIC COLOR statement doesn't bother to range check the arguments, it just copies them into the attribute byte in video memory. This is why the trick works. Other programs *know* that you clearly have a monochrome card so they won't use the full attribute byte even though they can. If you manually poke values into the BIOS data area (0x449) to indicate mode 3, then programs will start writing to 0xB8000 instead of 0xB0000 and you won't see anything on the screen. I thought about it some more this morning, and I realized that the video memory on the MDA card has a memory address decoder (actually a 'LS138, U51). By pulling pin 1 of the chip and tying it to ground, I was able to alias the MDA video memory at 0xB8000 as well as the normal 0xB0000 location. When I poked 3 to 0x449 using DEBUG, it actually worked, and I got QBASIC up in color! https://twitter.com/TubeTimeUS/status/1033028673970921472 There are a few strange effects, naturally. QBASIC reprograms the cursor incorrectly so it appears in the middle of the character cell. Also, because the underline generator still uses the attribute byte, dark blue text appears underlined. On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:49 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > OK, so the demo was with a "MODIFIED" card. :-) (admittedly a trivial one > that brought it in line with published schematic) > > Which Int10h modes does it support? > QBASIC is presumably simpy using the INt10h modes. > The MDA by default was in Mode 7. > If it will do mode 3, then it can do Lotus in color, etc. > > Obviously, it doesn't have the RAM to do any "high resolution" modes, . . > . > > > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Eric Schlaepfer wrote: > > > I'm not that lucky! But yes, an early card with the light pen connector > > should work. > > > > The card I used for the demo is a somewhat later revision. I added rework > > wires to match the schematic in the technical reference manual of the > > earlier revision. > > > > With either an early MDA card or a modded card, if you fire up DOS 5.0 > and > > have QBASIC, you'll find that the COLOR statement... just works! It's > quite > > strange. > > > > On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:24 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Ali via cctalk wrote: > >>> Which revision MDA is this? I have an original NEC Multisync and I have > >>> a tone of MDA cards including one in one the first 5000 IBM 5150s > >>> produced. I would love to get color out of it just for the sake of > doing > >>> it. Do you still have your demo programs? > >> > >> Do any of yours have the 6 pin Berg connector near the top of the > mounting > >> plate? Some did. On CGA, that connector is for light pen. > >> Supposedly some early MDAs had pins 3,4,5 connected (not connected in > >> later ones). That MIGHT be the same ones as have the light-pen? > >> connector. > >> > >> https://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/mda.html#cmda > >> > >> http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/early/5150_early.htm > From t.gardner at computer.org Fri Aug 24 14:50:46 2018 From: t.gardner at computer.org (Tom Gardner) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 12:50:46 -0700 Subject: First 3.5 inch FDD [WAS: RE: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive] In-Reply-To: References: <00a501d43b11$217733d0$64659b70$@computer.org> Message-ID: <005901d43be3$c18daed0$44a90c70$@computer.org> As Chuck notes the shutter closing was different, the RPM was different and the interface was quite different. Also different was the media coercivity, media thickness, data rate and physical drive form factor. Enough differences such that the Sony 0A-D30 drive and medium could not interchange with what became the industry standard for 3? FDDs and FDs. What became the standard in all these areas and others was defined by the "Microfloppy Industry Committee" which was formed and led by folks from Shugart Corp. At its peak it had at least 23 members. In January 1983 Sony agreed to supply media comporting to the MIC standard. Both Tandon and Shugart showed drives at Comdex 1982; who shipped first in 1983 is unknown. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Guzis [mailto:cclist at sydex.com] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 12:20 PM To: Tom Gardner via cctalk Subject: Re: First 3.5 inch FDD [WAS: RE: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive] On 08/23/2018 11:43 AM, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote: > Well it all depends upon what u mean by "first" > > The Sony drive and cartridge were not compatible in many ways with > what became the physical, magnetic and electrical interface standards > for the 3.5-inch drive and cartridge. The standards came out of the > "Microfloppy Industry Committee" (Google it with quotes) organized by Shugart Corp. > Either Shugart or Tandon was the first to ship drives compatible to > the standard. Tandon probably did the first such cartridge. I must confess some bewilderment. Around 1981, I did some contract work for an outfit called Preis for their portable computer. I don't recall the nature of the work anymore, but I still have a copy of their BIOS for CP/M. At any rate, the thing used the Sony 0A-D30 single-sided 600 RPM floppies, which held about half as much as the corresponding 8" media (in FM, about 160KB). The major differences were that the Sony drive could access only 70 cylinders, while the 8" drives could do 77. In addition, the Sony spun at 600 RPM, which allowed for the use of an 8" drive interface, albeit at a reduced track capacity over the 8" drive. One other notable aspect was that the Sony's 26-pin interface had no motor control line--the disk spun continuously, just like its 8" relatives. Similarly, it had a head-load solenoid, just like the 8" drives. Media-wise, I believe there was little difference between the Sony floppies and more modern DS2D commodity media. I believe the disk shutters were not sprung, but were manual. I used to have a couple of these drives, but scrapped them because the modern slow 3.5" drives did a better job of handling floppies. Where Shugart fits into all of this, I have no idea. --Chuck From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Fri Aug 24 14:51:50 2018 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 21:51:50 +0200 Subject: Datic 2000 / Ampex 844 Documentation ? In-Reply-To: <7e0caeed-9b63-a60d-b283-24e5e7ae3c8b@bitsavers.org> References: <7e0caeed-9b63-a60d-b283-24e5e7ae3c8b@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <0a395f52-dc9b-8388-6845-281075d467ca@greenmail.ch> On 23.08.2018 22:50, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > another one > > https://forum.classic-computing.org/forum/index.php?thread/13826-datic/ ...which is the very machine I was looking at... And yes, that westernDynax drive looks remarkably similar. The 2-pcb, TTL based, controller for the drives sports "diablo 20 40" markings in its etch. Alas the Datic could not be persuaded to boot. Next task is to test the 128 socketed 2114 chips in the system. Jos From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 24 16:38:24 2018 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 14:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: First 3.5 inch FDD [WAS: RE: Prototype IBM DemiDiskette drive] In-Reply-To: <005901d43be3$c18daed0$44a90c70$@computer.org> References: <00a501d43b11$217733d0$64659b70$@computer.org> <005901d43be3$c18daed0$44a90c70$@computer.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote: > As Chuck notes the shutter closing was different, the RPM was different > and the interface was quite different. Also different was the media > coercivity, media thickness, data rate and physical drive form factor. > Enough differences such that the Sony 0A-D30 drive and medium could not > interchange with what became the industry standard for 3? FDDs and FDs. > What became the standard in all these areas and others was defined by > the "Microfloppy Industry Committee" which was formed and led by folks > from Shugart Corp. At its peak it had at least 23 members. In January > 1983 Sony agreed to supply media comporting to the MIC standard. Both > Tandon and Shugart showed drives at Comdex 1982; who shipped first in > 1983 is unknown. THANK YOU for all of the details! As to the shutter: There were early diskettes with NO shutter. I have one with a "Shugart" label. It's POSSIBLE that it was only a prototype? There were some with completely manual shutters. There were "Pinch" diskettes. You manually opened the shutter against minor spring tension, and it latched. To close it, you pinched the corner of the housing, and the spring closed the shutter. There was a word "Pinch" imprinted in the corner, and an arrow pointing to it. I had most of a box of new HP ones of those at VCF. A guy scammed the consignment staff into letting him walk away with the whole box at the "price per ONE disk" price. Then came the completely automatic diskettes that everybody is faamiliar with. They stopped imprinting the word "Pinch", but they left the arrow! (under the premise that "it shows which way to put the disk into the drive") I used no shutter diskettes, manual shutter diskettes, "pinch" diskettes, and automatic shutter diskettes in Shugart SA300 automatic shutter drives. You had to be a little careful of the shutter in the early drives. If there were differences in the media coercivity or media thickness, they were minor enough to not prevent my using the wrong ones. Do people using the Sony drives have difficulty using the other diskettes? This, of course, is NOT the same issue as the differences between "720K/800K" diskettes V "1.4M"/"HD". The "720K/800K" were about 600 Oersted, and "1.4M"/"HD" is somewhere around 720 to 750 Oersted. Unlike "360K" V "1.2M" (300 Oersted V 600 Oersted), the difference between the 3.5" diskettes is close enough thet many people are not aware of it, and misuse a good 3.5" diskette as a mediocre one in the wrong drive. "1.4M"/"HD" diskettes have an extra hole identifying the media; some drives have sensors looking for that; some (including many PS/2) don't. "ED"/"2.8M" has a different material for the cookie (Barium-ferrite), and a slightly different media ID hole. Drive form factor was not much of an issue - to retrofit a 3.5" drive into a PC, you had to make your own mounting brackets anyway (Erector Set). Soon, there became available trays to put a 3.5" drive into a half-height 5.25" bay. RPM, Data transfer rate is a minor issue. The 600RPM of the Sony drive requires a 500,000 bits per second data transfer rate (like an 8" or "1.2M") Another variant to be aware of: NEC has 3.5" drives that are 360RPM (like an 8" floppy), instead of 300RPM. That lets them have the same structures on the diskette for 8", 5.25" "1.2M", and their 3.5" format. (77? track, 8 sector, 1024 bytes per sector) Those drives are sometimes referred to as "Type 3" or "3 Mode", Some OEMs used 3.5" with CP/M. Some OEMs modified MS-DOS to support 3.5" MS-DOS 2.11 made that much easier than it had been with previous versions. PC-DOS 3.20 was the first official support of 3.5" from IBM. PC-DOS 3.30 was the first official support of "1.4M" from IBM. MS-DOS 3.31 was, like 2.11, often customized, including HDD larger than 32M. etc. As to "FIRST". . . . The word should be avoided in all historical research. Few are willing to acknowledge the possibility of a "tie". But, often one company is the first to announce, another is first to have a working prototype, another is first to demo, another is first to start taking orders, another is first to ship their first one, another is first to be able to supply without long pre-order, another . . . Apple/TRS80/PET had overlaps of which phase of being first each one was. And, LITTLE guys are ignored when a BIGGIE comes out with the same thing. E.g., Osborne was most definitely NOT the first to come out with a "sewing machine"/"suitcase" computer. In fact, right across the aisle from the many thousands of dollars of chrome and black plexiglass of his big announcement, Elcompco (in a corner of the Berkeley Microcomputer/XenoSoft booth) was fulfilling orders for a machine with floppy drives and 5" monitor built into a Halliburton attache case. So, for my PERSONAL meaning of "first", Shugart SA300 was the first 3.5" drive with "standard" interface that I could buy at a computer swap and carry home. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com From dave at 661.org Sat Aug 25 17:46:39 2018 From: dave at 661.org (David Griffith) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 22:46:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: DEC LA-12 (Correspondent) keycaps? Message-ID: I was wondering if anyone had any spare keys for a DEC LA-12 (aka Correspondent) printing terminal. I need the '1' key and the "DATA/TALK" key. -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Aug 26 00:28:48 2018 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 22:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 Message-ID: <201808260528.w7Q5SmNk25427990@floodgap.com> I'm worried that VMS Mosaic 4.2 is lost since WVNET's VAX systems are no longer operational, and it was stored on their FTP server (not somewhere that the Wayback Machine got to). I only have an old version of 3.6 and a diff of 4.2. Does anyone have the original copy of 4.2? It was named MOSAIC4_2.ZIP. What I've got is here: gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/gopher/clients/vms/ -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. -------------------------------- From pbirkel at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 02:27:01 2018 From: pbirkel at gmail.com (Paul Birkel) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 03:27:01 -0400 Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b1101d43d0e$2e782810$8b687830$@gmail.com> Which length band did you find worked best as a replacement? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 2:50 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Al Kossow Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. I unearthed some old TU58 tapes that luckily was readable (after carefully replacing the tension band) ----- From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Aug 26 09:23:00 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 07:23:00 -0700 Subject: ISO Ewing PDP-11 FORTH Message-ID: <95ed4b26-094d-1f6a-288d-e9c77906f80c@bitsavers.org> There are several version of PDP-11 FIG-FORTH on the net, I'm trying to find the one from Marty Ewing originally DECUS 11-232, later for RT-11 The writeup for the RT-11 version shows up with a Google search https://manualzz.com/doc/20421230/forth-programming-system-rt11-decus-distribution-document FORTH PROGRAMMING SYSTEM RT11 DECUS Distribution Documentation File M. S. Ewing 18 October 1978 the files in it are: FORTH.DOC This file. FORTH.MAC Forth Macro source for the Forth "kernel" FORSYS.DAT Standard Forth text file XED.DAT Extended editor text BFP.DAT Basic floating point package EFP.DAT An extended floating point package MSG.DAT A minimal message file. I have some sources which use a Z80 threaded language called Terse that I believe is based on this kernel that I'm trying to archive (it's for some Bally arcade games) From toby at telegraphics.com.au Sun Aug 26 09:50:46 2018 From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (Toby Thain) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:50:46 -0400 Subject: A couple of fig-FORTH documents FTGH Message-ID: 1) fig-FORTH 6502 Assembly Source Listing Release 1.1 with Compiler Security and Variable Length Names (Sept 1980) 2) fig-FORTH Installation Manual Release 1 With Compiler Security and Variable Length Names (Nov 1980) Free for shipping, located in Toronto Canada --Toby From holm at freibergnet.de Sun Aug 26 11:01:05 2018 From: holm at freibergnet.de (Holm Tiffe) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 18:01:05 +0200 Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 In-Reply-To: <201808260528.w7Q5SmNk25427990@floodgap.com> References: <201808260528.w7Q5SmNk25427990@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20180826160105.GA64575@beast.freibergnet.de> Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > I'm worried that VMS Mosaic 4.2 is lost since WVNET's VAX systems are no > longer operational, and it was stored on their FTP server (not somewhere > that the Wayback Machine got to). I only have an old version of 3.6 and a > diff of 4.2. Does anyone have the original copy of 4.2? It was named > MOSAIC4_2.ZIP. What I've got is here: > > gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/gopher/clients/vms/ > > -- > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com > -- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. -------------------------------- I think I have 4.0: Archive: /data/holm/Computer/vax/mosaic.zip Length Date Time Name -------- ---- ---- ---- 0 02-09-10 08:17 exe/ 7452 05-28-06 16:48 exe/mosaic.dat 2990080 05-28-06 16:38 exe/mosaic_alpha_v73-2.exe 1466368 05-28-06 16:45 exe/mosaic_vax_v54-3.exe 1870336 05-28-06 16:43 exe/mosaic_vax_v73.exe 387 06-03-06 12:04 exe/readme.txt 7253 07-23-06 10:47 freeware_readme.txt 2662912 05-28-06 16:11 mosaic4_0.zip Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741 From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Aug 26 11:27:32 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 09:27:32 -0700 Subject: ISO Ewing PDP-11 FORTH In-Reply-To: <95ed4b26-094d-1f6a-288d-e9c77906f80c@bitsavers.org> References: <95ed4b26-094d-1f6a-288d-e9c77906f80c@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <064efcb4-8ae6-e10e-4028-0b1954b72dab@bitsavers.org> On 8/26/18 7:23 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > There are several version of PDP-11 FIG-FORTH on the net, I'm trying to find the one from Marty Ewing > originally DECUS 11-232, later for RT-11 > > The writeup for the RT-11 version shows up with a Google search > https://manualzz.com/doc/20421230/forth-programming-system-rt11-decus-distribution-document > > FORTH PROGRAMMING SYSTEM > RT11 DECUS Distribution > Documentation File > > M. S. Ewing > 18 October 1978 > Jerry Weiss pointed out it's on the 11s076 RT11 SIG tape as a .DSK image, which is why I didn't see it. Most of the DECUS SIG tapes that Tim Shoppa put up have just extracted files and not the original images. I really should get the .tap images on line as well. From healyzh at avanthar.com Sun Aug 26 11:35:58 2018 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 09:35:58 -0700 Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 In-Reply-To: <20180826160105.GA64575@beast.freibergnet.de> References: <201808260528.w7Q5SmNk25427990@floodgap.com> <20180826160105.GA64575@beast.freibergnet.de> Message-ID: <0DE0278D-DBF3-452A-A266-8DFCF21BF5CF@avanthar.com> When was v4.2 released, and would it have made it onto one of the Freeware CD?s? It looks like 4.0 is probably newer than I?d have bothered downloading. By then I think I was mainly using Lynx when I needed a browser on VMS. It?s not in the home directory on my VMS cluster, I?ll take a further look once I sort out some unrelated computer issues I?m dealing with. Zane > On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:01 AM, Holm Tiffe via cctalk wrote: > > Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > >> I'm worried that VMS Mosaic 4.2 is lost since WVNET's VAX systems are no >> longer operational, and it was stored on their FTP server (not somewhere >> that the Wayback Machine got to). I only have an old version of 3.6 and a >> diff of 4.2. Does anyone have the original copy of 4.2? It was named >> MOSAIC4_2.ZIP. What I've got is here: >> >> gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/gopher/clients/vms/ >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- >> Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com >> -- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. -------------------------------- > > I think I have 4.0: > > Archive: /data/holm/Computer/vax/mosaic.zip > Length Date Time Name > -------- ---- ---- ---- > 0 02-09-10 08:17 exe/ > 7452 05-28-06 16:48 exe/mosaic.dat > 2990080 05-28-06 16:38 exe/mosaic_alpha_v73-2.exe > 1466368 05-28-06 16:45 exe/mosaic_vax_v54-3.exe > 1870336 05-28-06 16:43 exe/mosaic_vax_v73.exe > 387 06-03-06 12:04 exe/readme.txt > 7253 07-23-06 10:47 freeware_readme.txt > 2662912 05-28-06 16:11 mosaic4_0.zip > > Regards, > > Holm > -- > Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, > Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 > info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741 > From healyzh at avanthar.com Sun Aug 26 15:15:48 2018 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 13:15:48 -0700 Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 In-Reply-To: <0DE0278D-DBF3-452A-A266-8DFCF21BF5CF@avanthar.com> References: <201808260528.w7Q5SmNk25427990@floodgap.com> <20180826160105.GA64575@beast.freibergnet.de> <0DE0278D-DBF3-452A-A266-8DFCF21BF5CF@avanthar.com> Message-ID: <32307408-86EB-455B-B924-7DDAE61B2F30@avanthar.com> It looks like I only have Mosaic v3.1 and v3.2. This actively ties into another issue I?m observing. Having gotten my VMS systems back online (virtualization is allowing me to bypass electrical and cooling demands), I?ve noticed that most of the places that had VMS freeware and Open Source online appear to be gone. Is anyone trying to create an new archive? Zane > On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:35 AM, Zane Healy wrote: > > When was v4.2 released, and would it have made it onto one of the Freeware CD?s? It looks like 4.0 is probably newer than I?d have bothered downloading. By then I think I was mainly using Lynx when I needed a browser on VMS. > > It?s not in the home directory on my VMS cluster, I?ll take a further look once I sort out some unrelated computer issues I?m dealing with. > > Zane > > > > >> On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:01 AM, Holm Tiffe via cctalk wrote: >> >> Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: >> >>> I'm worried that VMS Mosaic 4.2 is lost since WVNET's VAX systems are no >>> longer operational, and it was stored on their FTP server (not somewhere >>> that the Wayback Machine got to). I only have an old version of 3.6 and a >>> diff of 4.2. Does anyone have the original copy of 4.2? It was named >>> MOSAIC4_2.ZIP. What I've got is here: >>> >>> gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/gopher/clients/vms/ >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- >>> Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com >>> -- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. -------------------------------- >> >> I think I have 4.0: >> >> Archive: /data/holm/Computer/vax/mosaic.zip >> Length Date Time Name >> -------- ---- ---- ---- >> 0 02-09-10 08:17 exe/ >> 7452 05-28-06 16:48 exe/mosaic.dat >> 2990080 05-28-06 16:38 exe/mosaic_alpha_v73-2.exe >> 1466368 05-28-06 16:45 exe/mosaic_vax_v54-3.exe >> 1870336 05-28-06 16:43 exe/mosaic_vax_v73.exe >> 387 06-03-06 12:04 exe/readme.txt >> 7253 07-23-06 10:47 freeware_readme.txt >> 2662912 05-28-06 16:11 mosaic4_0.zip >> >> Regards, >> >> Holm >> -- >> Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, >> Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 >> info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741 >> > From marvin at west.net Sun Aug 26 16:22:08 2018 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 14:22:08 -0700 Subject: Model 100/HX-20 LCD Display Problems Message-ID: <3be4ad5a-fb51-fb25-c1e7-482166f41b0f@west.net> In getting ready for VCFMW, I started looking at some model 100s and HX-20 notebook computers. Most of them have blank LCD displays, so I figured there might be a common problem. So far, I've found leaky electrolytics on all of them, usually 10 uF, but there are some others with all of them so far associated with the LCD power supplies. The Epsons seem less prone to this than the model 100s, but both have the problem. Has anyone that has done repair work on these computers found the major problem to be leaky capacitors? My gut reaction at this point is to just replace all of the electrolytics. Does this sound like a reasonable longer term approach rather than just replacing the obvious leaky ones? From alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 16:32:57 2018 From: alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com (Alexandre Souza) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 18:32:57 -0300 Subject: Model 100/HX-20 LCD Display Problems In-Reply-To: <3be4ad5a-fb51-fb25-c1e7-482166f41b0f@west.net> References: <3be4ad5a-fb51-fb25-c1e7-482166f41b0f@west.net> Message-ID: I'm looking for a display board...Both 100s I have got, have IC driver problems 2018-08-26 18:22 GMT-03:00 Marvin Johnston via cctalk : > > In getting ready for VCFMW, I started looking at some model 100s and HX-20 > notebook computers. Most of them have blank LCD displays, so I figured > there might be a common problem. > > So far, I've found leaky electrolytics on all of them, usually 10 uF, but > there are some others with all of them so far associated with the LCD power > supplies. The Epsons seem less prone to this than the model 100s, but both > have the problem. > > Has anyone that has done repair work on these computers found the major > problem to be leaky capacitors? > > My gut reaction at this point is to just replace all of the electrolytics. > Does this sound like a reasonable longer term approach rather than just > replacing the obvious leaky ones? > From me at xenu.pl Sun Aug 26 17:18:40 2018 From: me at xenu.pl (Tomasz Konojacki) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 00:18:40 +0200 Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 In-Reply-To: <201808260528.w7Q5SmNk25427990@floodgap.com> References: <201808260528.w7Q5SmNk25427990@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20180827001838.DF5F.5C4F47F8@xenu.pl> On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 22:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > I'm worried that VMS Mosaic 4.2 is lost since WVNET's VAX systems are no > longer operational, and it was stored on their FTP server (not somewhere > that the Wayback Machine got to). I only have an old version of 3.6 and a > diff of 4.2. Does anyone have the original copy of 4.2? It was named > MOSAIC4_2.ZIP. What I've got is here: > > gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/gopher/clients/vms/ > > -- > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com > -- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. -------------------------------- It was included in VMS/LT Spring 2007 SIG tape: https://mirrors.pdp-11.ru/_vax2/_decuslib/decus/vmslt07a/vu/ From mbbrutman at brutman.com Sun Aug 26 18:05:24 2018 From: mbbrutman at brutman.com (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:05:24 -0700 Subject: Announcing VCF Pacific Northwest 2019! Message-ID: *VCF PNW 2019 will take place March 23-24, 2019 at Living Computers: Museum+Labs in Seattle, Washington. We had a great time last year and we are going to try to make it even better this year.Exhibitor registration is open. I am also looking for speakers and volunteers to help me run the event. It seems early but time tends to speed up at the end of the year. Getting an earlier start should also help people who need to make travel arrangements.Are you thinking about traveling from outside of the region? There is plenty to do in Seattle while you are here, including the Connections Museum, the Pacific Science Center, MoPOP, the Boeing factory tour, etc.Interested? Check out http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-pacific-northwest/ for more details or send me an email.Thanks,Mike* From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Aug 26 18:28:29 2018 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 In-Reply-To: <20180827001838.DF5F.5C4F47F8@xenu.pl> from Tomasz Konojacki at "Aug 27, 18 00:18:40 am" Message-ID: <201808262328.w7QNSTPf3342382@floodgap.com> > > I'm worried that VMS Mosaic 4.2 is lost since WVNET's VAX systems are no > > longer operational, and it was stored on their FTP server (not somewhere > > that the Wayback Machine got to). I only have an old version of 3.6 and a > > diff of 4.2. Does anyone have the original copy of 4.2? It was named > > MOSAIC4_2.ZIP. What I've got is here: > > > > gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/gopher/clients/vms/ > > It was included in VMS/LT Spring 2007 SIG tape: > > https://mirrors.pdp-11.ru/_vax2/_decuslib/decus/vmslt07a/vu/ Bless you, sir! I will be copying that over. Now to compile it on my VAXstation. Why should AXP have all the fun? -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Eight out of ten voices in my head say, "don't shoot!" --------------------- From charles.unix.pro at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 19:05:35 2018 From: charles.unix.pro at gmail.com (Charles Anthony) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 17:05:35 -0700 Subject: Announcing VCF Pacific Northwest 2019! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 4:05 PM Michael Brutman via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > *VCF PNW 2019 will take place March 23-24, 2019 at Living Computers: > Museum+Labs in Seattle, Washington. We had a great time last year and we > are going to try to make it even better this year.Exhibitor registration is > open. I am also looking for speakers and volunteers to help me run the > event. It seems early but time tends to speed up at the end of the year. > Getting an earlier start should also help people who need to make travel > arrangements.Are you thinking about traveling from outside of the region? > There is plenty to do in Seattle while you are here, including the > Connections Museum, the Pacific Science Center, MoPOP, the Boeing factory > tour, etc.Interested? Check out > http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-pacific-northwest/ > < > http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-pacific-northwest/ > > > for more details or send me an email.Thanks,Mike* > I would be happy to do some volunteer work. What kind of stuff are you looking for? I would also be willing to do the Soul of an Old Machine presentation again if there were interest. -- Charles From mbbrutman at brutman.com Sun Aug 26 19:26:04 2018 From: mbbrutman at brutman.com (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 17:26:04 -0700 Subject: Announcing VCF Pacific Northwest 2019! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Charles! Volunteering can take many forms. The biggest need is for people to be available on the days of the event to help setup tables, help exhibitors carry things in and get setup, man the consignment area, man the VCF "front desk" to answer questions and sell schwag, and serve as general errand runners and troubleshooters during the show. The more people we have on hand the easier it gets. Before the day of the event there is a bit of planning. I do most of the grunt work leading up to the show but I like to have extra eyes and ears to tell me what I'm missing or to bounce ideas off of. (I'll ping you offline to continue.) Mike From healyzh at avanthar.com Sun Aug 26 19:30:57 2018 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 17:30:57 -0700 Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 In-Reply-To: <201808262328.w7QNSTPf3342382@floodgap.com> References: <201808262328.w7QNSTPf3342382@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <64CFBEB3-5A62-4A0F-966C-D30617F7E55C@avanthar.com> > On Aug 26, 2018, at 4:28 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > > Now to compile it on my VAXstation. Why should AXP have all the fun? My VAXstation 4000/60 says that?s way more fun that it wants to have! :-) Though one of my next projects is getting a VirtualVAX up and running with Graphics. Zane From billdegnan at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 21:12:44 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 22:12:44 -0400 Subject: VMS Mosaic 4.2 In-Reply-To: <64CFBEB3-5A62-4A0F-966C-D30617F7E55C@avanthar.com> References: <201808262328.w7QNSTPf3342382@floodgap.com> <64CFBEB3-5A62-4A0F-966C-D30617F7E55C@avanthar.com> Message-ID: My 4000-60 is running v 2.1 http://vintagecomputer.net/digital/VaxStation_4000-60/Spyglass_Mosaic.jpg On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:31 PM Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > > > On Aug 26, 2018, at 4:28 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Now to compile it on my VAXstation. Why should AXP have all the fun? > > My VAXstation 4000/60 says that?s way more fun that it wants to have! :-) > > Though one of my next projects is getting a VirtualVAX up and running with > Graphics. > > Zane > > > > > From useddec at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 23:07:36 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 23:07:36 -0500 Subject: IBM, Panasonic printers, Calcomp plotters, Versatec, SC08s Message-ID: The following can be delivered to VCFMW or shipped: IBM 5152 personal computer graphics printer Panasonic MX-P1124 24 pin multi mode printer Several Calcomp table top plotters Versatec Unibus boards DEC SC08 Star Couplers Just looking for reasonable offers. Thanks, Paul From rdawson16 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 27 00:04:56 2018 From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 05:04:56 +0000 Subject: Microsoft DOS Fortran 5.1 graphics Message-ID: I am looking for a sort of 'hello world' example and/or samples to use the graphics library in this compiler, some sample code. My target is DOS and the Compaq luggable mono display. It looks like its all there, the library and include files for display adapters and modes, but I cant find an example on the netwebs to get me started. Anybody have a set of demo files or application source to study and to use this? I have TurboC running on this machine, and the graphics are great. Did Microsoft have a similar set of examples for Fortran? Randy From holm at freibergnet.de Mon Aug 27 03:46:00 2018 From: holm at freibergnet.de (Holm Tiffe) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:46:00 +0200 Subject: VAX 4000 Memory? Message-ID: <20180827084600.GA7465@beast.freibergnet.de> Hi, I have an working VAX4000/300 and I'm looking for additional memory for this machine. Has anyone left over MS-670 Memoryboards that he wants to get rid of for an symbolic price? (or compatibles, clearpoint etc...) I'm ocated in germany.. Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583 info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741 From Richard.Sheppard at telus.com Mon Aug 27 10:14:22 2018 From: Richard.Sheppard at telus.com (Richard Sheppard) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 15:14:22 +0000 Subject: NEC Multisync monitor manual Message-ID: > I am looking for a manual for the original NEC Multisync monitor. Mine is JC-1402 and the "User's Manual" I have is titled "MultiSync 3D". It mentions model JC-1404 but it all looks the same as mine. Is there anything in particular you need to know - or would you like a scan? Richard Sheppard From aek at bitsavers.org Mon Aug 27 11:37:31 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 09:37:31 -0700 Subject: Article on Gopher with Cam in it Message-ID: <055aac66-ddac-7a39-9f6d-272820c39fdd@bitsavers.org> https://www.minnpost.com/business/2016/08/rise-and-fall-gopher-protocol They seem to have overlooked the fact that U-Minn never wanted to release control over Gopher. From spacewar at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 12:14:16 2018 From: spacewar at gmail.com (Eric Smith) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 11:14:16 -0600 Subject: Article on Gopher with Cam in it In-Reply-To: <055aac66-ddac-7a39-9f6d-272820c39fdd@bitsavers.org> References: <055aac66-ddac-7a39-9f6d-272820c39fdd@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: I especially like the description of the UMN Shepherd Labs building having no windows, placed directly beneath a photo of the building with around 150 windows visible. From healyzh at avanthar.com Mon Aug 27 12:26:51 2018 From: healyzh at avanthar.com (Zane Healy) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:26:51 -0700 Subject: Article on Gopher with Cam in it In-Reply-To: <055aac66-ddac-7a39-9f6d-272820c39fdd@bitsavers.org> References: <055aac66-ddac-7a39-9f6d-272820c39fdd@bitsavers.org> Message-ID: <9D6AF298-CBDD-4D3B-ADC7-4C72780A7ED4@avanthar.com> > On Aug 27, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > https://www.minnpost.com/business/2016/08/rise-and-fall-gopher-protocol > > They seem to have overlooked the fact that U-Minn never wanted to release control over Gopher. I had no idea Bob Alberti was one of the folks behind Gopher. Zane From schlae at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 18:20:18 2018 From: schlae at gmail.com (Eric Schlaepfer) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:20:18 -0700 Subject: Looking for Targa 1.0 drivers Message-ID: I have some old Targa 1.0 video boards (dating back to their AT&T days) but no driver diskettes. Does anyone happen to have some? I think they should work with Targa 16 drivers. From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Aug 27 20:09:23 2018 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Article on Gopher with Cam in it In-Reply-To: <055aac66-ddac-7a39-9f6d-272820c39fdd@bitsavers.org> from Al Kossow via cctalk at "Aug 27, 18 09:37:31 am" Message-ID: <201808280109.w7S19Nx519726480@floodgap.com> > https://www.minnpost.com/business/2016/08/rise-and-fall-gopher-protocol Every so often someone rediscovers Gopher and asks me the same set of questions. But I love seeing the old beast still burrowing. Meanwhile, the Veronica-2 robot is indexing as I type this. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Si c'est gratuit, vous etes le produit. ------------------------------------ From useddec at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 00:10:50 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:10:50 -0500 Subject: IMS DYNATECH, UNISYS, EECO Paper tape, Datamyte Message-ID: This is a very old rack mount disk controller (has format switch) with what looks like ims on the 15 or so small boards. The backplane has DYNATECH on the back. Two Unisys PCK105-SKB look unused, but one is yellowed. DATAMYTE 1000 Data Collector EECO model # TRS9200BBDED, paper tape reader, no reels. The TRS9200 is on Bitsavers.org From useddec at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 00:51:52 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 00:51:52 -0500 Subject: ACT Able, Datasouth Message-ID: I have a bunch of Able items here If you have any questions, please contact me off list. If you have any info, please share it with us. several models of Quniverters 10028, 10028101, 10028102 some boards have 3 #s This is the mysterious PDP 11/45 board. RARE? 10033, 10033001, 10033002 PDP1134, 11/40 cache RARE? SN267 10003000, 10003001, 10003002 10049, 10049-0, 10049001,10049002 High speed link Datasouth board for LA36 I believe. From marvin at west.net Tue Aug 28 01:38:12 2018 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 23:38:12 -0700 Subject: Epson HX-20, TRS-80 Model 100 Capacitor Kits Message-ID: Since I have at least four Model 100 and HX-20s, I've decided to just replace all the aluminum electrolytics before repair becomes much more difficult. So far, I see the project as fairly easy depending on how bad the corrosion from the leaking caps is. Is anyone interested in buying a kit or two of the capacitors? I'm guessing buying the parts from DigiKey at low quantity prices will result in about $3.50 or so for the bag of about 13 capacitors. US postage will probably run a couple of dollars or so, but I can also bring them with me to VCFMW. I'll be ordering what I need unless I hear others might want the kits as well. On a similar topic, has anyone given up on cleaning out the corroded plated-Thru-Holes, and just soldered on some SMD caps? If so, how did it work out? Finally, just some observations on the corrosion. I finally found some information about the corrosion caused by leaking aluminum caps. It sounds like the leaking fluid, besides possibly damaging the copper traces, also does something to the solder in the PTH such that a soldering iron won't melt the solder. Right now, the solder doesn't want to melt so I will use a pin vise and about a number 62 drill or so to hand drill out the PTH solder. From mattislind at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 04:25:26 2018 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:25:26 +0200 Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. In-Reply-To: <0b1101d43d0e$2e782810$8b687830$@gmail.com> References: <0b1101d43d0e$2e782810$8b687830$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Den s?n 26 aug. 2018 kl 09:26 skrev Paul Birkel via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org>: > Which length band did you find worked best as a replacement? > I used the white three inch plastiband. Rik Bos told me that the best way is to heat the old band slightly. I used a SMD desoldering air gun which I set to 100 degrees centigrade and then blowed heat air onto the tape from some distance until it changed from a white matte surface into a darker brown surface. Then it easily came of the tape without damaging the tape. There were some kind of residue left which I used isopropyl alcohol to remove. I also added some lubricant to the tape rollers. This far I have recovered ten tapes successfully. Two tapes only read 128 blocks. I used RT11 to recover the tapes but it seems that the /IGNORE option doesn't skip bad blocks at all. I had the hope that COPY/DEV/FILE/IGMORE DD0: TU58.DSK would skip the bad blocks. But I might be misunderstanding the syntax? I will try to use DUP directly and see if that makes any difference. Something like * TU58.DSK/F=DD0:/I/J But according to the manual it just skip the bad block which is annoying since then all remaining blocks is shifted block number wise. Probably have to manually recreate the structure using dd? /Mattis > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis > Lind via cctalk > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 2:50 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Al Kossow > Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. > > I unearthed some old TU58 tapes that luckily was readable (after carefully > replacing the tension band) > > ----- > > From alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 04:39:46 2018 From: alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com (Alexandre Souza) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 06:39:46 -0300 Subject: Epson HX-20, TRS-80 Model 100 Capacitor Kits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: never, EVER use a drill. add more solder and keep heating the corroded solder, it will eventually melt and mix with new solder. using a drill will destroy the board. Enviado do meu Tele-Movel On Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 03:38 Marvin Johnston via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Since I have at least four Model 100 and HX-20s, I've decided to just > replace all the aluminum electrolytics before repair becomes much more > difficult. So far, I see the project as fairly easy depending on how bad > the corrosion from the leaking caps is. > > Is anyone interested in buying a kit or two of the capacitors? I'm > guessing buying the parts from DigiKey at low quantity prices will > result in about $3.50 or so for the bag of about 13 capacitors. US > postage will probably run a couple of dollars or so, but I can also > bring them with me to VCFMW. I'll be ordering what I need unless I hear > others might want the kits as well. > > On a similar topic, has anyone given up on cleaning out the corroded > plated-Thru-Holes, and just soldered on some SMD caps? If so, how did it > work out? > > Finally, just some observations on the corrosion. I finally found some > information about the corrosion caused by leaking aluminum caps. It > sounds like the leaking fluid, besides possibly damaging the copper > traces, also does something to the solder in the PTH such that a > soldering iron won't melt the solder. Right now, the solder doesn't want > to melt so I will use a pin vise and about a number 62 drill or so to > hand drill out the PTH solder. > From mattislind at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 04:58:42 2018 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:58:42 +0200 Subject: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45 In-Reply-To: <20180727130609.2C36B18C094@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20180727130609.2C36B18C094@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: > > So, my guess was wrong there. I had _assumed_ that when doing a memory > operation, the CPU started a cycle on both busses, to minimize the delay on > the UNIBUS cycle if the MS11 on the FastBus didn't have that location. (I > had > previously checked, and there is an 'I have that location' signal which the > MS11 sends back, making the concept of a cache possible.) > > Well, no. In the "KB11-A CPU Maintenance Manual" (DEC-11-HKBB-D), section > 7.7.1 ("Bus Control Introduction"), it says: > > If the address applies to a Fastbus device, that device will respond in > time > to inhibit the UNIBUS MSYN signal > > (It turns out the KB11-A is very clever; it has to delay for a bit after > asserting the address, etc, signals on the UNIBUS, for de-skew, before it > can > assert MSYN, and during that delay, in parallel, it checks to see if the > MS11 > has that location.) > > So my theory about what that double-card does (prevent an MSYN sent to main > memory on a cache hit) is apparently wrong. > > > Which leaves the question of what that card _does_ do... > > The cache _does_ need to have the A and B UNIBUS tied together, so that it > can > snoop UNIBUS memory cycles (which are on the A UNIBUS) via the B UNIBUS > (which > is what it has access to on the backplane), _but_ it doesn't need a special > card, with i) active logic, and b) a cable back to the main board, to do > that > - a regular M9200 will do that. > > The cable back to the main card, and the logic on the two dual-width cards, > mean it wants to interfere somehow in the connection between the A and B > UNIBUS. But if not the MSYN thing, what else could it be? I have pondered > that question, but I can't think of anything. > > It can't be doing anything with interrupts or DMA, I would think, so no > grant > interception. So what else could it be? Anyone have any ideas? > Here are some pictures of the mysterious bus intercept or whatever board: https://i.imgur.com/rZOS0qt.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6eMfCo4.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Jodpiue.jpg /Mattis > > Noel > From chrise at pobox.com Tue Aug 28 12:50:24 2018 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 12:50:24 -0500 Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. In-Reply-To: References: <0b1101d43d0e$2e782810$8b687830$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20180828175023.GB15491@n0jcf.net> On Tuesday (08/28/2018 at 11:25AM +0200), Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > Den s?n 26 aug. 2018 kl 09:26 skrev Paul Birkel via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org>: > > > Which length band did you find worked best as a replacement? > > > > I used the white three inch plastiband. Rik Bos told me that the best way > is to heat the old band slightly. I used a SMD desoldering air gun which I > set to 100 degrees centigrade and then blowed heat air onto the tape from > some distance until it changed from a white matte surface into a darker > brown surface. Hmm. 3" plastiband seem to be rare or my Google-foo is pretty bad. Do you have a source for these? I have found only 2-1/8", 4-1/4" and 6" so far. Tack. -- Chris Elmquist From mattislind at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:22:49 2018 From: mattislind at gmail.com (Mattis Lind) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:22:49 +0200 Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. In-Reply-To: <20180828175023.GB15491@n0jcf.net> References: <0b1101d43d0e$2e782810$8b687830$@gmail.com> <20180828175023.GB15491@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: Den tis 28 aug. 2018 kl 19:50 skrev Chris Elmquist : > On Tuesday (08/28/2018 at 11:25AM +0200), Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > Den s?n 26 aug. 2018 kl 09:26 skrev Paul Birkel via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org>: > > > > > Which length band did you find worked best as a replacement? > > > > > > > I used the white three inch plastiband. Rik Bos told me that the best way > > is to heat the old band slightly. I used a SMD desoldering air gun which > I > > set to 100 degrees centigrade and then blowed heat air onto the tape from > > some distance until it changed from a white matte surface into a darker > > brown surface. > > Hmm. 3" plastiband seem to be rare or my Google-foo is pretty bad. > > Do you have a source for these? > > I have found only 2-1/8", 4-1/4" and 6" so far. > The SF-7000 contain a number of different sizes. 1 1/2 inch, 2 1/8 inch, 3 5/8, 4 1/4 inch and 6 inch http://www.officedirectsupply.com/sf7000_baumgartens_plastiband_77071_prd1.htm On the other hand I haven't found a source for the 6 inch variant (that actually could deliver them) other than in the mixed package. /Mattis > > Tack. > -- > Chris Elmquist > From chrise at pobox.com Tue Aug 28 18:27:01 2018 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:27:01 -0500 Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk. In-Reply-To: References: <0b1101d43d0e$2e782810$8b687830$@gmail.com> <20180828175023.GB15491@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: <20180828232701.GK1553@n0jcf.net> On Tuesday (08/28/2018 at 08:22PM +0200), Mattis Lind wrote: > Den tis 28 aug. 2018 kl 19:50 skrev Chris Elmquist : > > > On Tuesday (08/28/2018 at 11:25AM +0200), Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > > Den s?n 26 aug. 2018 kl 09:26 skrev Paul Birkel via cctalk < > > > cctalk at classiccmp.org>: > > > > > > > Which length band did you find worked best as a replacement? > > > > > > > > > > I used the white three inch plastiband. Rik Bos told me that the best way > > > is to heat the old band slightly. I used a SMD desoldering air gun which > > I > > > set to 100 degrees centigrade and then blowed heat air onto the tape from > > > some distance until it changed from a white matte surface into a darker > > > brown surface. > > > > Hmm. 3" plastiband seem to be rare or my Google-foo is pretty bad. > > > > Do you have a source for these? > > > > I have found only 2-1/8", 4-1/4" and 6" so far. > > > > The SF-7000 contain a number of different sizes. 1 1/2 inch, 2 1/8 inch, 3 > 5/8, 4 1/4 inch and 6 inch > > http://www.officedirectsupply.com/sf7000_baumgartens_plastiband_77071_prd1.htm > > On the other hand I haven't found a source for the 6 inch variant (that > actually could deliver them) other than in the mixed package. Got it. Thanks. So, 3-5/8" is actual. I was being too picky about your 3" statement :-) It seems to be well known that the number of each size you get in the SF-7000 package is, umm, random... so a guy needs to get several packages and hope for plenty of white ones. Thanks again, Chris -- Chris Elmquist From marvin at west.net Wed Aug 29 02:31:09 2018 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:31:09 -0700 Subject: Epson HX-20, TRS-80 Model 100 Capacitor Kits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <633205a3-ebf1-2e4a-167e-08e0f1a938dc@west.net> Hi Alexandre, I very much disagree with your NEVER use a drill comment and add more solder w/heat for several reasons, valid at least for someone who knows what they are doing. First, the little information I could find on the solder corrosion caused by leaky electrolytic capacitors suggested a salt compound is formed that mere heating and adding solder won't remove. I'd love to hear more about this problem and what this residue actually is! The problem with "keep heating" is the bond between the copper and the substrate is substantially weakened by heat making it MUCH easier to damage the PCB by lifting traces, remove the plated thru holes copper, etc. Not sure about high temperature substrates such as Kapton, but that isn't what we are talking about here. Also notice I used the words "pin vise" and "#62 drill." The idea is to use a drill small enough that will remove the residue from the hole having enough clearance without removing the copper from the PTH. It seems reasonable once there is a hole to solder again and see if the hole can be cleaned out. We lost power at the house today (electric company maintenance) so I didn't have a chance to play around more. Also I do have "professional" experience with printed circuit boards as I was a field engineer who worked in many printed circuit facilities around the US, and owned my own PCB manufacturing company in a previous life. All that said, I still think using SMD might be the safest way to replace the caps while minimizing the chance of damage to the printed circuit board. Marvin On 8/28/2018 2:39 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: > never, EVER use a drill. add more solder and keep heating the corroded > solder, it will eventually melt and mix with new solder. > > using a drill will destroy the board. > > Enviado do meu Tele-Movel > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 03:38 Marvin Johnston via cctalk > > wrote: > > Since I have at least four Model 100 and HX-20s, I've decided to just > replace all the aluminum electrolytics before repair becomes much more > difficult. So far, I see the project as fairly easy depending on how > bad > the corrosion from the leaking caps is. > > Is anyone interested in buying a kit or two of the capacitors? I'm > guessing buying the parts from DigiKey at low quantity prices will > result in about $3.50 or so for the bag of about 13 capacitors. US > postage will probably run a couple of dollars or so, but I can also > bring them with me to VCFMW. I'll be ordering what I need unless I hear > others might want the kits as well. > > On a similar topic, has anyone given up on cleaning out the corroded > plated-Thru-Holes, and just soldered on some SMD caps? If so, how > did it > work out? > > Finally, just some observations on the corrosion. I finally found some > information about the corrosion caused by leaking aluminum caps. It > sounds like the leaking fluid, besides possibly damaging the copper > traces, also does something to the solder in the PTH such that a > soldering iron won't melt the solder. Right now, the solder doesn't > want > to melt so I will use a pin vise and about a number 62 drill or so to > hand drill out the PTH solder. > From alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 04:59:50 2018 From: alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com (Alexandre Souza) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 06:59:50 -0300 Subject: Epson HX-20, TRS-80 Model 100 Capacitor Kits In-Reply-To: <633205a3-ebf1-2e4a-167e-08e0f1a938dc@west.net> References: <633205a3-ebf1-2e4a-167e-08e0f1a938dc@west.net> Message-ID: Oh Marvin, you're on your right to disagree :) Thats why we're here, to discuss, learn and teach. The salt...well, the first step of reparing a leaked board is to wash it in vinegar to neutralize salts/alkali and wash again with water+apropriate detergent. If you haven't done this, you're not doing a proper repair job. "Keep heating", well...I use a weller controlled temperature soldering station. I can count in the fingers of one hand the tracks I've lifted on the past 30+ years working with component level computer repair. "Drill": No way. I'l not EVER do this profissionally. You can argue with what you want, but I'd NEVER do that. The danger of drilling out the metalization of a board is too high to use this invasive method. There was NO board I couldn't clean a hole propperly. Ever. I respect your experience, but believe me, I've done repairing on some hundreds of old "irreparable" computers. People only bring things here when no one wants to play anymore. I'm the "last mile" of retro computing repair here :) Take a look at my sites: http://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com http://tabalabs.com.br I'm sure you'll have some fun with some repairs I've done :o) Greetings from Brazil! Alexandre 2018-08-29 4:31 GMT-03:00 Marvin Johnston via cctalk : > Hi Alexandre, > > I very much disagree with your NEVER use a drill comment and add more > solder w/heat for several reasons, valid at least for someone who knows > what they are doing. > > First, the little information I could find on the solder corrosion caused > by leaky electrolytic capacitors suggested a salt compound is formed that > mere heating and adding solder won't remove. I'd love to hear more about > this problem and what this residue actually is! > > The problem with "keep heating" is the bond between the copper and the > substrate is substantially weakened by heat making it MUCH easier to damage > the PCB by lifting traces, remove the plated thru holes copper, etc. Not > sure about high temperature substrates such as Kapton, but that isn't what > we are talking about here. > > Also notice I used the words "pin vise" and "#62 drill." The idea is to > use a drill small enough that will remove the residue from the hole having > enough clearance without removing the copper from the PTH. It seems > reasonable once there is a hole to solder again and see if the hole can be > cleaned out. > > We lost power at the house today (electric company maintenance) so I > didn't have a chance to play around more. Also I do have "professional" > experience with printed circuit boards as I was a field engineer who worked > in many printed circuit facilities around the US, and owned my own PCB > manufacturing company in a previous life. > > All that said, I still think using SMD might be the safest way to replace > the caps while minimizing the chance of damage to the printed circuit board. > > Marvin > > > On 8/28/2018 2:39 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: > >> never, EVER use a drill. add more solder and keep heating the corroded >> solder, it will eventually melt and mix with new solder. >> >> using a drill will destroy the board. >> >> Enviado do meu Tele-Movel >> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 03:38 Marvin Johnston via cctalk < >> cctalk at classiccmp.org > wrote: >> >> Since I have at least four Model 100 and HX-20s, I've decided to just >> replace all the aluminum electrolytics before repair becomes much more >> difficult. So far, I see the project as fairly easy depending on how >> bad >> the corrosion from the leaking caps is. >> >> Is anyone interested in buying a kit or two of the capacitors? I'm >> guessing buying the parts from DigiKey at low quantity prices will >> result in about $3.50 or so for the bag of about 13 capacitors. US >> postage will probably run a couple of dollars or so, but I can also >> bring them with me to VCFMW. I'll be ordering what I need unless I >> hear >> others might want the kits as well. >> >> On a similar topic, has anyone given up on cleaning out the corroded >> plated-Thru-Holes, and just soldered on some SMD caps? If so, how >> did it >> work out? >> >> Finally, just some observations on the corrosion. I finally found some >> information about the corrosion caused by leaking aluminum caps. It >> sounds like the leaking fluid, besides possibly damaging the copper >> traces, also does something to the solder in the PTH such that a >> soldering iron won't melt the solder. Right now, the solder doesn't >> want >> to melt so I will use a pin vise and about a number 62 drill or so to >> hand drill out the PTH solder. >> >> From marvin at west.net Wed Aug 29 12:44:57 2018 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 10:44:57 -0700 Subject: Epson HX-20, TRS-80 Model 100 Capacitor Kits In-Reply-To: References: <633205a3-ebf1-2e4a-167e-08e0f1a938dc@west.net> Message-ID: Well, I rarely use vinegar and much prefer diluted Muriatic Acid (swimming pool acid to adjust pH), and have done that in this case. FWIW, a hydrochloric acid based solution is what what many PCB shops used to clean the tin-lead plating (used as an etch resist) before it got heated and alloyed into solder. The bigger problem is waiting too long to repair the problem... like leaving batteries sitting in a piece of equipment WAY TOO Long so the traces and PTH DO get badly damaged. So far, I haven't seen similar damage from leaky caps in other equipment than the Model 100s and HX-20s. I've also only seen the damage occur from the Aluminum Electrolytics. I've used a Weller soldering station for probably 40 years or so and it works just fine. Recently I bought a Metcal and find the small tip coupled with the concentrated heat works very well for my purposes. Soldering 25 mil SMD ICs is MUCH easier to do now. A friend of mine sells soldering equipment at major hamfests and has most of this stuff in his inventory. It is especially nice in these days of mail order to just go over to his house and pick up what I need! It seems both of us have the experience to do what we do well. I stand by what I've said... as you do also :). Best regards to you and Brazil! On 8/29/2018 2:59 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: > Oh Marvin, you're on your right to disagree :) Thats why we're here, to > discuss, learn and teach. > > The salt...well, the first step of reparing a leaked board is to wash it > in vinegar to neutralize salts/alkali and wash again with > water+apropriate detergent. If you haven't done this, you're not doing a > proper repair job. > > "Keep heating", well...I use a weller controlled temperature soldering > station. I can count in the fingers of one hand the tracks I've lifted > on the past 30+ years working with component level computer repair. > > "Drill": No way. I'l not EVER do this profissionally. You can argue with > what you want, but I'd NEVER do that. The danger of drilling out the > metalization of a board is too high to use this invasive method. There > was NO board I couldn't clean a hole propperly. Ever. > > I respect your experience, but believe me, I've done repairing on some > hundreds of old "irreparable" computers. People only bring things here > when no one wants to play anymore. I'm the "last mile" of retro > computing repair here :) > > Take a look at my sites: > http://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com > http://tabalabs.com.br > > I'm sure you'll have some fun with some repairs I've done :o) > > Greetings from Brazil! > Alexandre > > 2018-08-29 4:31 GMT-03:00 Marvin Johnston via cctalk > >: > > Hi Alexandre, > > I very much disagree with your NEVER use a drill comment and add > more solder w/heat for several reasons, valid at least for someone > who knows what they are doing. > > First, the little information I could find on the solder corrosion > caused by leaky electrolytic capacitors suggested a salt compound is > formed that mere heating and adding solder won't remove. I'd love to > hear more about this problem and what this residue actually is! > > The problem with "keep heating" is the bond between the copper and > the substrate is substantially weakened by heat making it MUCH > easier to damage the PCB by lifting traces, remove the plated thru > holes copper, etc. Not sure about high temperature substrates such > as Kapton, but that isn't what we are talking about here. > > Also notice I used the words "pin vise" and "#62 drill." The idea is > to use a drill small enough that will remove the residue from the > hole having enough clearance without removing the copper from the > PTH. It seems reasonable once there is a hole to solder again and > see if the hole can be cleaned out. > > We lost power at the house today (electric company maintenance) so I > didn't have a chance to play around more. Also I do have > "professional" experience with printed circuit boards as I was a > field engineer who worked in many printed circuit facilities around > the US, and owned my own PCB manufacturing company in a previous life. > > All that said, I still think using SMD might be the safest way to > replace the caps while minimizing the chance of damage to the > printed circuit board. > > Marvin > > > On 8/28/2018 2:39 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: > > never, EVER use a drill. add more solder and keep heating the > corroded solder, it will eventually melt and mix with new solder. > > using a drill will destroy the board. > > Enviado do meu Tele-Movel > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 03:38 Marvin Johnston via cctalk > > >> > wrote: > > ? ? Since I have at least four Model 100 and HX-20s, I've > decided to just > ? ? replace all the aluminum electrolytics before repair > becomes much more > ? ? difficult. So far, I see the project as fairly easy > depending on how > ? ? bad > ? ? the corrosion from the leaking caps is. > > ? ? Is anyone interested in buying a kit or two of the > capacitors? I'm > ? ? guessing buying the parts from DigiKey at low quantity > prices will > ? ? result in about $3.50 or so for the bag of about 13 > capacitors. US > ? ? postage will probably run a couple of dollars or so, but I > can also > ? ? bring them with me to VCFMW. I'll be ordering what I need > unless I hear > ? ? others might want the kits as well. > > ? ? On a similar topic, has anyone given up on cleaning out the > corroded > ? ? plated-Thru-Holes, and just soldered on some SMD caps? If > so, how > ? ? did it > ? ? work out? > > ? ? Finally, just some observations on the corrosion. I finally > found some > ? ? information about the corrosion caused by leaking aluminum > caps. It > ? ? sounds like the leaking fluid, besides possibly damaging > the copper > ? ? traces, also does something to the solder in the PTH such > that a > ? ? soldering iron won't melt the solder. Right now, the solder > doesn't > ? ? want > ? ? to melt so I will use a pin vise and about a number 62 > drill or so to > ? ? hand drill out the PTH solder. > > From marvin at west.net Wed Aug 29 17:33:19 2018 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:33:19 -0700 Subject: Color of Leaky Electrolyic Caps? Message-ID: <076c1e7c-99c0-dd59-f110-39b1e927d4c4@west.net> I was just checking out the leaky capacitors on the model 100 motherboard, and they are all colored black. And ditto for the HX-20. The ones that are both light and dark blue look to be fine (no leakage.) So am I just seeing an anomaly, or is this the experience of most people here? From systems.glitch at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 17:51:53 2018 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:51:53 -0400 Subject: Color of Leaky Electrolyic Caps? In-Reply-To: <076c1e7c-99c0-dd59-f110-39b1e927d4c4@west.net> References: <076c1e7c-99c0-dd59-f110-39b1e927d4c4@west.net> Message-ID: Black is a common wrap color for electrolytics, wouldn't be surprised if the majority are black wrapper. Plenty of leaky brown wrappers, too. And yes, blue :) Thanks, Jonathan On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:33 PM Marvin Johnston via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I was just checking out the leaky capacitors on the model 100 > motherboard, and they are all colored black. And ditto for the HX-20. > The ones that are both light and dark blue look to be fine (no leakage.) > > So am I just seeing an anomaly, or is this the experience of most people > here? > From mhs.stein at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 19:17:30 2018 From: mhs.stein at gmail.com (Mike Stein) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 20:17:30 -0400 Subject: Color of Leaky Electrolyic Caps? References: <076c1e7c-99c0-dd59-f110-39b1e927d4c4@west.net> Message-ID: <01D359734FCA46C18693CD5A8585A331@310e2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston via cctalk" To: "ClassicCmp" Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 6:33 PM Subject: Color of Leaky Electrolyic Caps? >I was just checking out the leaky capacitors on the model 100 > motherboard, and they are all colored black. And ditto for the HX-20. > The ones that are both light and dark blue look to be fine (no leakage.) > > So am I just seeing an anomaly, or is this the experience of most people > here? I've replaced caps on two M100s and they were indeed black. m From terry at webweavers.co.nz Wed Aug 29 19:45:14 2018 From: terry at webweavers.co.nz (Terry Stewart) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:45:14 +1200 Subject: A New Zealand-based early '80s microcomputer retailer talks about his experience Message-ID: This won't be of interest to everyone, but if you want to hear what it was like to open and run a microcomputer store in New Zealand back in the early 1980s, it's captured here. https://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-08-23-viscount-electronics.htm Terry (Tez) From billdegnan at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 13:28:28 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 14:28:28 -0400 Subject: DEC PDP 11 RK05 DEC custom (?) bootstrap board Message-ID: I have what I believe to be two DEC RK05 bootstrap boards each with a ROM labeled 802350 A. UNIBUS. The plastic handle tabs are Digital Equipm.'s but it could be an OEM as there is nothing printed on them. On the board is printed on what would be the bottom front side R-K ABBR BOOT P.C. BOARD 609395 REV B on one line and under that 802000 REV There is a round sticker on the back of the board written in pen that reads: LL 802000 Rev B 6-17-76 printed on the backside of the board near the sticker is 609395 REV B I use a M9312 to bootstrap from the monitor but I am curious how I'd attempt to use one of these. Any thoughts? Bill From paulkoning at comcast.net Wed Aug 29 13:44:58 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 14:44:58 -0400 Subject: DEC PDP 11 RK05 DEC custom (?) bootstrap board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D4F59E3-5A15-4E6A-9EFE-7CD0C9274FDE@comcast.net> Most likely not DEC. The blank handle says as much, and the part numbers you gave are not in the DEC standard format. Also, I would not expect "R-K" in a DEC references to the RK05/RK11. paul > On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:28 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: > > I have what I believe to be two DEC RK05 bootstrap boards each with a ROM > labeled 802350 A. UNIBUS. The plastic handle tabs are Digital Equipm.'s > but it could be an OEM as there is nothing printed on them. > > On the board is printed on what would be the bottom front side > R-K ABBR BOOT P.C. BOARD 609395 REV B > on one line and under that > 802000 REV > > There is a round sticker on the back of the board written in pen that reads: > LL > 802000 > Rev B > 6-17-76 > > printed on the backside of the board near the sticker is 609395 REV B > > I use a M9312 to bootstrap from the monitor but I am curious how I'd > attempt to use one of these. Any thoughts? > > Bill From useddec at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 23:23:51 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 23:23:51 -0500 Subject: DEC PDP 11 RK05 DEC custom (?) bootstrap board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Bill, They don't sound like DEC numbers. Maybe Plessey? Thanks, Paul On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:28 PM Bill Degnan via cctech < cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I have what I believe to be two DEC RK05 bootstrap boards each with a ROM > labeled 802350 A. UNIBUS. The plastic handle tabs are Digital Equipm.'s > but it could be an OEM as there is nothing printed on them. > > On the board is printed on what would be the bottom front side > R-K ABBR BOOT P.C. BOARD 609395 REV B > on one line and under that > 802000 REV > > There is a round sticker on the back of the board written in pen that > reads: > LL > 802000 > Rev B > 6-17-76 > > printed on the backside of the board near the sticker is 609395 REV B > > I use a M9312 to bootstrap from the monitor but I am curious how I'd > attempt to use one of these. Any thoughts? > > Bill > From Martin.Hepperle at MH-AeroTools.de Thu Aug 30 02:11:58 2018 From: Martin.Hepperle at MH-AeroTools.de (Martin.Hepperle at MH-AeroTools.de) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 09:11:58 +0200 Subject: Microsoft DOS Fortran 5.1 graphics Message-ID: <01c701d44030$bff32d60$3fd98820$@MH-AeroTools.de> > I am looking for a sort of 'hello world' example and/or samples to use the > graphics library in this compiler, some sample code. My target is DOS and > the Compaq luggable mono display. > > > It looks like its all there, the library and include files for display adapters and > modes, but I cant find an example on the netwebs to get me started. > > > Anybody have a set of demo files or application source to study and to use > this? > > > I have TurboC running on this machine, and the graphics are great. Did > Microsoft have a similar set of examples for Fortran? > > > Randy > Randy, this compiler can generate executables for DOS, Windows and OS/2. It also came with the QuickWin libraries to create FORTRAN programs which output text and graphics in Windows. I am not 100% sure, but it is possible that the first release did not have the QuickWin libraries and it came with an update. When you install Microsoft FORTRAN 5.1 you have the option to install the SAMPLES. The README says: [...] \SOURCE\SAMPLES This directory also contains the source code for the graphics programs from chapters 11, 12, and 13 of the Microsoft FORTRAN Advanced Topics manual. Note that these examples require the graphics include files FGRAPH.FI and FGRAPH.FD. These files are copied to an INCLUDE directory by the SETUP program. In real mode (DOS), the programs must be linked with the graphics library GRAPHICS.LIB. In protected mode (OS/2), graphics is not supported, but you can compile text-only programs by linking with the text library GRTEXTP.LIB. The appropriate libraries are copied to your disk by the SETUP program. For example, use the following command line for DOS: FL COLTEXT.FOR GRAPHICS.LIB Or use the following command line for OS/2: FL COLTEXT.FOR GRTEXTP.LIB The programs are listed below: DOS only DOS or OS/2 -------- ----------- Chapter 11 CGA.FOR COLTEXT.FOR COLOR.FOR EGA.FOR GRAPHIC.FOR HORIZON.FOR REALG.FOR SINE.FOR Chapter 12 SAMPLER.FOR Chapter 13 ANIMATE.FOR CURSOR.FOR ARC.FOR MODES.FOR CGAPAL.FOR SCRTXWIN.FOR FIGURE.FOR SETROWS.FOR FILL.FOR TEXT.FOR FONTS.FOR WRAP.FOR MAGNIFY.FOR PAGE.FOR PALETTE.FOR STAR.FOR WINDOW.FOR [...] Those examples cover many aspects of the system. I only used the Windows part and I believe that under OS/2 there is no graphics, only cursor addressing. The graphics system offers similar capabilities to e.g. Borland's or Quick C's capabilities. regards, Martin From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Thu Aug 30 02:50:04 2018 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (mark at wickensonline.co.uk) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:50:04 +0100 Subject: Event Announcement: DEC Legacy is back on 17th-18th Nov 2018, Windermere UK Message-ID: <00cc01d44036$108f1090$31ad31b0$@wickensonline.co.uk> DEC Legacy 2018 is on! The next DEC Legacy will take place Saturday 17th November 2018 - Sunday 18th at the Marchesi Centre in Windermere, North West UK. With a focus on Digital Equipment Corporation and their legacy of hardware, software and ethos I'm also extending an open invitation to those who are interested in SGI, HP, Sun, IBM and other high end hardware to come along and share their passion with us. Several formal presentations will be mixed with plenty of hands on time with hardware brought by enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are encouraged to bring along hardware and software to exhibit. The personal nature of the event brings a unique atmosphere within which friendships are easily forged. Registration is now open. Please visit http://declegacy.org.uk for more details. Regards, Mark Wickens, M0NOM From useddec at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 03:39:30 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 03:39:30 -0500 Subject: Apollo motherboard dated 1988 013034 Message-ID: I just found it while sorting. If you are interested, please contact me off list. Thanks , Paul From useddec at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 03:45:01 2018 From: useddec at gmail.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 03:45:01 -0500 Subject: Computer Design & Automation (CDA), Simpact, EXCLAN Message-ID: Does anybody know anything about these companies or their products? If you have any interest in them, please contact me off list. Thanks, Paul From lars at nocrew.org Thu Aug 30 06:00:26 2018 From: lars at nocrew.org (Lars Brinkhoff) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:00:26 +0000 Subject: 11LOGO Message-ID: <7w36uwyv91.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Hello, I have a 1972 version of 11LOGO, which is the dialect of Logo which was done by the Logo group at MIT. Their computer was a PDP-11/45. I have it running in a PDP-11 simulator, 11SIM, which runs on the ITS operating system. If someone is interested in running it in some other simulator like SIMH, I can provide files and assistance. The nice thing about 11SIM is that it emulates the one-off TK display system which provides 8 vector displays. 11LOGO uses it to view turtle graphics. It would be interesting to add this capability to SIMH, but I'm pressed for time. I can provide documentation, though. There is a second application, the Dazzle Dart game, which uses this display as well. It doesn't run in 11SIM because it uses FP11 instructions which are not implemented. Best regards, Lars Brinkhoff From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Thu Aug 30 07:18:43 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DEC PDP 11 RK05 DEC custom (?) bootstrap board Message-ID: <20180830121843.7011418C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Bill Degnan > I am curious how I'd attempt to use one of these. Any thoughts? I'd start by dumping and disassembling. (If you need something to find out where in memory they are, I have a register discovery program that sweeps the I/O page and lists all locations that respond. It's probably 173xxx though, that's the DEC-allocated spare for ROM.) Noel From dpi at dustyoldcomputers.com Thu Aug 30 09:20:29 2018 From: dpi at dustyoldcomputers.com (Doug Ingraham) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 08:20:29 -0600 Subject: CESI VM8128 PDP8-A 128 K MOS? In-Reply-To: <4d3c380b-60b6-c827-a467-20dc6bbf7208@gmail.com> References: <5b7feb20.1c69fb81.4f75a.79c1SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <4d3c380b-60b6-c827-a467-20dc6bbf7208@gmail.com> Message-ID: As stated this is a 128k word mos memory board for the 8/a processor. On its own it would only present as a 32k board. To make it work as a 128k you also need to have a M8416 board which drives the additional address lines. And not all 8/a chassis had support for this. All 4 of my backplanes have a label indicating KT8A support. I am guessing that originally the additional address lines were not connected across the backplane on the 6th connector. My card does have some bad bits and one of these days I will get around to replacing some chips. This is probably why I was able to get it not paired with the fancy MMU card. I have an M8417 but have been unable to find an M8416 at a price I was willing to pay. Apparently there are still a few 8/a's with these cards in service in Genrad testers and that makes the cards still valuable. There is info on it in the PDP 8/a PDF's on bitsavers. I think there was a TSS8 variant that used it as a fast swap but I don't know of anything else from DEC that supported it. Best Wishes! On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 5:38 AM, allison via cctalk wrote: > On 08/24/2018 07:06 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote: > > M8417 MSC8DJ PDP8A 128K MOS > > > > Clone of this > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: Paul Anderson via cctalk > > Sent: 24 August 2018 10:12 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; cctech at vax-11.org > > Subject: CESI VM8128 PDP8-A 128 K MOS? > > > > I have an idea what this might be, but I can't find anything to confirm > it > > on line. Can anyone shine some light on it? > > > > Thanks, Paul > > > its a 128 memory card If memory is right hex width for PDP-8A... The > last of the omnibus 8s. > That machine had extended the MMU used in earlier PDP-8 from 3 EMA lines > to 5. > Only fits the 8A chassis. > > Allison > -- Doug Ingraham PDP-8 SN 1175 Assorted 8/a chassis DECSet 8000 (It is a blue PDP 8/e okay?) From Richard.Sheppard at telus.com Thu Aug 30 09:42:05 2018 From: Richard.Sheppard at telus.com (Richard Sheppard) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:42:05 +0000 Subject: Computer Design & Automation (CDA), Simpact, EXCLAN Message-ID: <1695684ccc5f4410852912626925addf@BTWP000243.corp.ads> > Does anybody know anything about these companies or their products? I have a couple of Simpact VME form factor DSP cards (DSP-LC) which were used in a fancy telephone answering machine for radio stations. It was part of a big system which allowed listeners to call in and get the weather, lottery, joke-of-the-day etc. They could also enter contests and record their phone number via DTMF. Richard Sheppard From billdegnan at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 09:52:46 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:52:46 -0400 Subject: DEC PDP 11 RK05 DEC custom (?) bootstrap board In-Reply-To: <20180830121843.7011418C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> References: <20180830121843.7011418C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:18 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Bill Degnan > > > I am curious how I'd attempt to use one of these. Any thoughts? > > I'd start by dumping and disassembling. > > (If you need something to find out where in memory they are, I have > a register discovery program that sweeps the I/O page and lists all > locations that respond. It's probably 173xxx though, that's the > DEC-allocated spare for ROM.) > > Noel > Thank you. In theory I could compare/contrast with m9312 rom for rk05, look for commonalities Bill Bill > From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Aug 30 12:01:16 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:01:16 -0400 Subject: DEC PDP 11 RK05 DEC custom (?) bootstrap board In-Reply-To: References: <20180830121843.7011418C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: <1776C03B-249C-4FC3-9588-A23222390E35@comcast.net> > On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:18 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk > wrote: > >>> From: Bill Degnan >> >>> I am curious how I'd attempt to use one of these. Any thoughts? >> >> I'd start by dumping and disassembling. >> >> (If you need something to find out where in memory they are, I have >> a register discovery program that sweeps the I/O page and lists all >> locations that respond. It's probably 173xxx though, that's the >> DEC-allocated spare for ROM.) >> >> Noel >> > > Thank you. In theory I could compare/contrast with m9312 rom for rk05, > look for commonalities Sure, or just reverse engineer it. A classic RK05 bootstrap is only a few instructions long -- the original ROM array bootstrap supports not just RK05 but also RF11, RC11, and TC11 in just 16 words of code. paul From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Aug 30 12:26:55 2018 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:26:55 -0700 Subject: Computer Design & Automation (CDA), Simpact, EXCLAN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: EXCELAN made VME, Multibus, QBus and Unibus Intelligent Ethernet cards that put the IP stack on board running from an 80186. Obviously, didn't keep up with changing standards. It also had the problem the IP address was tied to the Ethernet address. SGI used them in the 68K IRIS machines. There was a way to get to the raw interface, which was the way they used them, or was it Integrated Solutions... There's stuff up on bitsavers about them. On 8/30/18 1:45 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > Does anybody know anything about these companies or their products? > > If you have any interest in them, please contact me off list. > > Thanks, Paul > From derschjo at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 12:54:08 2018 From: derschjo at gmail.com (Josh Dersch) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:54:08 -0700 Subject: Computer Design & Automation (CDA), Simpact, EXCLAN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > EXCELAN made VME, Multibus, QBus and Unibus Intelligent Ethernet cards > that put the IP stack on board running from an 80186. Obviously, didn't > keep up with changing standards. It also had the problem the IP address > was tied to the Ethernet address. > I think this depended on the driver being used -- the EXOS has half a meg or so of memory that can be used to run code on-board (potentially offloading protocol overhead), but not everything made use of it. I have one in my VAX 11/730 and it works fine under 4.3BSD with no weird restrictions, but it doesn't make use of the onboard RAM -- it just controls the board directly. They seem to be pretty nice boards, but I've only played with the Unibus version. - Josh > > SGI used them in the 68K IRIS machines. There was a way to get to the > raw interface, which was the way they used them, or was it Integrated > Solutions... > > There's stuff up on bitsavers about them. > > > > > On 8/30/18 1:45 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > > Does anybody know anything about these companies or their products? > > > > If you have any interest in them, please contact me off list. > > > > Thanks, Paul > > > > From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Thu Aug 30 14:46:58 2018 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DEC PDP 11 RK05 DEC custom (?) bootstrap board Message-ID: <20180830194658.E1C6618C0A2@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Paul Koning > the original ROM array bootstrap supports not just RK05 but also RF11, > RC11, and TC11 in just 16 words of code. Ah, the days of devices that just did what they were told without trying to be effing rocket scientists about it! (Yeah, yeah, I know _some_ of the things the later ones did, you had to be close to the hardware to do them, but too often they had this 'we're from the device manufacturer, and we're here to help you' thing going. I used to have a photocopy of a great article in a trade rag which explained why complex devices were a Bad Idea; maybe I can find it, if anyone's interested.) Noel From Bruce at Wild-Hare.com Thu Aug 30 16:59:50 2018 From: Bruce at Wild-Hare.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:59:50 -0600 Subject: Novapalooza in 2 months... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4cba641b-0ad6-b0d9-31d5-43fc824a2db1@Wild-Hare.com> The celebration of 50 exciting years of Data General Nova history is quickly approaching - on October 22-24, 2018, in Denver, Colorado. Details and registration may be found at: www.Nova-At-50.org or www.NovaPalooza.org Really, the Nova is 50? Yup - so join us in celebrating the personal and technical impact of this youngster.. Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA bkr at WildHareComputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org From billdegnan at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 17:29:08 2018 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (Bill Degnan) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:29:08 -0400 Subject: Novapalooza in 2 months... In-Reply-To: <4cba641b-0ad6-b0d9-31d5-43fc824a2db1@Wild-Hare.com> References: <4cba641b-0ad6-b0d9-31d5-43fc824a2db1@Wild-Hare.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 6:00 PM Bruce Ray via cctalk wrote: > The celebration of 50 exciting years of Data General Nova history is > quickly approaching - on October 22-24, 2018, in Denver, Colorado. > Details and registration may be found at: > > www.Nova-At-50.org or www.NovaPalooza.org > > Really, the Nova is 50? Yup - so join us in celebrating the personal and > technical impact of this youngster.. > > > Bruce Ray > Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. > Boulder, Colorado USA > bkr at WildHareComputers.com > > ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org > > I did not know about this group, I hope you have a good event. I don't own any Nova stuff myself, just a lot of docs and manuals, simH. Bill From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Fri Aug 31 00:14:56 2018 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:14:56 -0600 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 06/25/2018 03:20 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: > Anyone interested in cable can email me directly (please change the > subject line, it'll get binned into my cctalk folder otherwise). I can > provide any level of "kit" from just the cable to fully ready to go. I > do have a very few NOS Cabletron ST-500-01 transceiver/non-intrusive > tap kits as well. Hi Jonathan, I wanted to take a moment and say "Thank You!" for making it a possibility for me to have a functional 10Base5 / Thicknet / Hosepipe network segment. I received mine in the mail today. :-) I look forward to picking up a couple of NICs with AUI interfaces and the requisite AUI cables to connect to the transceivers that you provided. If this was eBay I'd say: 5 out of 5 - I would do business with Jonathan again. Thank you again. :-) -- Grant. . . . unix || die From systems.glitch at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 09:04:18 2018 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:04:18 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent, glad it made it there quickly and safely! If anyone needs AUI cables, I don't have a bunch on hand, but I can pass on the seller I buy them from -- 1m cable, $20 shipped in the US. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 1:14 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 06/25/2018 03:20 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: > > Anyone interested in cable can email me directly (please change the > > subject line, it'll get binned into my cctalk folder otherwise). I can > > provide any level of "kit" from just the cable to fully ready to go. I > > do have a very few NOS Cabletron ST-500-01 transceiver/non-intrusive > > tap kits as well. > > Hi Jonathan, > > I wanted to take a moment and say "Thank You!" for making it a > possibility for me to have a functional 10Base5 / Thicknet / Hosepipe > network segment. > > I received mine in the mail today. :-) > > I look forward to picking up a couple of NICs with AUI interfaces and > the requisite AUI cables to connect to the transceivers that you provided. > > If this was eBay I'd say: 5 out of 5 - I would do business with > Jonathan again. > > Thank you again. :-) > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die > From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Fri Aug 31 10:18:02 2018 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:18:02 -0600 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 08/31/2018 08:04 AM, systems_glitch wrote: > Excellent, glad it made it there quickly and safely! Me too. > If anyone needs AUI cables, I don't have a bunch on hand, but I can pass > on the seller I buy them from -- 1m cable, $20 shipped in the US. Is there any reason not to go ahead and share the information publicly? I know that I will eventually need to acquire some AUI cables. The kicker is that I had two, exactly what I need and the NICs to connect them to before a cross country move that I got rid of a LOT of stuff. (I keep finding out exactly how much I'm replacing. :-( No fun.) -- Grant. . . . unix || die From systems.glitch at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 10:25:36 2018 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:25:36 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: Honestly? I'm worried about someone reading the list archive and hoarding them all away. It's a limited resource. I'll send you the link off-list. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 11:18 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 08/31/2018 08:04 AM, systems_glitch wrote: > > Excellent, glad it made it there quickly and safely! > > Me too. > > > If anyone needs AUI cables, I don't have a bunch on hand, but I can pass > > on the seller I buy them from -- 1m cable, $20 shipped in the US. > > Is there any reason not to go ahead and share the information publicly? > > I know that I will eventually need to acquire some AUI cables. > > The kicker is that I had two, exactly what I need and the NICs to > connect them to before a cross country move that I got rid of a LOT of > stuff. (I keep finding out exactly how much I'm replacing. :-( No fun.) > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die > From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Aug 31 12:21:04 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:21:04 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> I understand 10Base5 cable being limited, though regular 50 ohm coax generally works fine if you work around the lack of stripes. AUI cable, though, that doesn't seem much of a problem. Straightforward N pair twisted pair cable, terminated with DA15 connectors. The slide locks are not quite common but I believe still exist in parts catalogs, and you can do without them in any case. paul > On Aug 31, 2018, at 11:25 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: > > Honestly? I'm worried about someone reading the list archive and hoarding > them all away. It's a limited resource. > > I'll send you the link off-list. > > Thanks, > Jonathan > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 11:18 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> On 08/31/2018 08:04 AM, systems_glitch wrote: >>> Excellent, glad it made it there quickly and safely! >> >> Me too. >> >>> If anyone needs AUI cables, I don't have a bunch on hand, but I can pass >>> on the seller I buy them from -- 1m cable, $20 shipped in the US. >> >> Is there any reason not to go ahead and share the information publicly? >> >> I know that I will eventually need to acquire some AUI cables. >> >> The kicker is that I had two, exactly what I need and the NICs to >> connect them to before a cross country move that I got rid of a LOT of >> stuff. (I keep finding out exactly how much I'm replacing. :-( No fun.) >> >> >> >> -- >> Grant. . . . >> unix || die >> From Flash688 at flying-disk.com Fri Aug 31 12:44:14 2018 From: Flash688 at flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:44:14 -0700 Subject: Novapalooza in 2 months... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B897E6E.7010609@flying-disk.com> Bruce Ray wrote: > Really, the Nova is 50? Yup - so join us in celebrating the personal and > technical impact of this youngster.. I always found it amusing that Data General's computers were named after transitory phenomena: Nova, Supernova, Eclipse. Of course, in the grand scale of things, we all are. :-( Alan From systems.glitch at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 13:45:29 2018 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 14:45:29 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> Message-ID: Yeah, you can make up your own AUI cables with less-than-spec wire and get away with it no problem, but I was referring to NOS premade AUI cables being a limited resource. I've made them with DA15s and CAT5 cable before, and it works for short runs. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 1:21 PM Paul Koning wrote: > I understand 10Base5 cable being limited, though regular 50 ohm coax > generally works fine if you work around the lack of stripes. > > AUI cable, though, that doesn't seem much of a problem. Straightforward N > pair twisted pair cable, terminated with DA15 connectors. The slide locks > are not quite common but I believe still exist in parts catalogs, and you > can do without them in any case. > > paul > > > On Aug 31, 2018, at 11:25 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Honestly? I'm worried about someone reading the list archive and hoarding > > them all away. It's a limited resource. > > > > I'll send you the link off-list. > > > > Thanks, > > Jonathan > > > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 11:18 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk < > > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> On 08/31/2018 08:04 AM, systems_glitch wrote: > >>> Excellent, glad it made it there quickly and safely! > >> > >> Me too. > >> > >>> If anyone needs AUI cables, I don't have a bunch on hand, but I can > pass > >>> on the seller I buy them from -- 1m cable, $20 shipped in the US. > >> > >> Is there any reason not to go ahead and share the information publicly? > >> > >> I know that I will eventually need to acquire some AUI cables. > >> > >> The kicker is that I had two, exactly what I need and the NICs to > >> connect them to before a cross country move that I got rid of a LOT of > >> stuff. (I keep finding out exactly how much I'm replacing. :-( No > fun.) > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Grant. . . . > >> unix || die > >> > > From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Aug 31 14:08:37 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:08:37 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> > On Aug 31, 2018, at 2:45 PM, systems_glitch wrote: > > Yeah, you can make up your own AUI cables with less-than-spec wire and get away with it no problem, but I was referring to NOS premade AUI cables being a limited resource. > > I've made them with DA15s and CAT5 cable before, and it works for short runs. That figures; the impedance is not quite the same but close enough (78 ohms vs. 100) and AUI cable is supposed to be shielded. But there should be a fair amount of margin. paul From systems.glitch at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 14:07:55 2018 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:07:55 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I forget what the original allowed length was for drop cables, but I seem to remember it striking me as quite long! A few feet of CAT5 (or even better, STP) has a lot of wiggle room :P Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 3:08 PM Paul Koning wrote: > > > > On Aug 31, 2018, at 2:45 PM, systems_glitch > wrote: > > > > Yeah, you can make up your own AUI cables with less-than-spec wire and > get away with it no problem, but I was referring to NOS premade AUI cables > being a limited resource. > > > > I've made them with DA15s and CAT5 cable before, and it works for short > runs. > > That figures; the impedance is not quite the same but close enough (78 > ohms vs. 100) and AUI cable is supposed to be shielded. But there should > be a fair amount of margin. > > paul > > > From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Aug 31 14:19:26 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:19:26 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> Message-ID: <007CCD53-3A53-402A-84E2-D5FE19078662@comcast.net> > On Aug 31, 2018, at 3:07 PM, systems_glitch wrote: > > Yeah, I forget what the original allowed length was for drop cables, but I seem to remember it striking me as quite long! A few feet of CAT5 (or even better, STP) has a lot of wiggle room :P 50 meters, says IEEE 802.3. paul From cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net Fri Aug 31 14:25:49 2018 From: cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:25:49 -0600 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 08/31/2018 01:07 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: > Yeah, I forget what the original allowed length was for drop cables, > but I seem to remember it striking me as quite long! A few feet of CAT5 > (or even better, STP) has a lot of wiggle room :P I think I've seen reports of multi AUI port taps. Correct? Could you have one multi-port tap in a computer lab (of 5 ~ 20 machines) and connect them all to the single tap? Sort of like what is done with 10BaseT cables to a hub in the room? -- Grant. . . . unix || die From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Aug 31 14:32:55 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:32:55 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> Message-ID: <404AB567-A2AB-42D9-9F20-FB66266A5E8F@comcast.net> > On Aug 31, 2018, at 3:25 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > On 08/31/2018 01:07 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: >> Yeah, I forget what the original allowed length was for drop cables, but I seem to remember it striking me as quite long! A few feet of CAT5 (or even better, STP) has a lot of wiggle room :P > > I think I've seen reports of multi AUI port taps. Correct? You may be thinking of the DELNI, a multi AUI hub. Not a repeater, apparently. DEC also made a repeater in that era, the DEREP -- just two ports. That may be why the DELNI was built, as a way to get more fanout without the complexity of a multiport repeater built out of discrete electronics. > Could you have one multi-port tap in a computer lab (of 5 ~ 20 machines) and connect them all to the single tap? Sort of like what is done with 10BaseT cables to a hub in the room? Yes, the DELNI allowed for that, you'd plug in up to 8 NICs and then connect the uplink port to a transceiver. paul From systems.glitch at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 14:32:45 2018 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:32:45 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: <404AB567-A2AB-42D9-9F20-FB66266A5E8F@comcast.net> References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> <404AB567-A2AB-42D9-9F20-FB66266A5E8F@comcast.net> Message-ID: Allied Telesis made a "multi port tap" that provided four AUI ports off a single Ethernet tap. I don't know if it was a repeater/hub inside, or what. It was much smaller than a DELNI or DEREP. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 3:33 PM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Aug 31, 2018, at 3:25 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk < > cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On 08/31/2018 01:07 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: > >> Yeah, I forget what the original allowed length was for drop cables, > but I seem to remember it striking me as quite long! A few feet of CAT5 (or > even better, STP) has a lot of wiggle room :P > > > > I think I've seen reports of multi AUI port taps. Correct? > > You may be thinking of the DELNI, a multi AUI hub. Not a repeater, > apparently. DEC also made a repeater in that era, the DEREP -- just two > ports. That may be why the DELNI was built, as a way to get more fanout > without the complexity of a multiport repeater built out of discrete > electronics. > > > Could you have one multi-port tap in a computer lab (of 5 ~ 20 machines) > and connect them all to the single tap? Sort of like what is done with > 10BaseT cables to a hub in the room? > > Yes, the DELNI allowed for that, you'd plug in up to 8 NICs and then > connect the uplink port to a transceiver. > > paul > > From ethan at 757.org Fri Aug 31 14:37:20 2018 From: ethan at 757.org (ethan at 757.org) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> Message-ID: > I think I've seen reports of multi AUI port taps. Correct? I think my Cray has a 4 port AUI box w/ 1 x 10base2. It has DB15 ribbons going to each of the IOSV CPU cards. Allied Telesyn might be the mfgr. -- : Ethan O'Toole From ethan at 757.org Fri Aug 31 14:45:51 2018 From: ethan at 757.org (ethan at 757.org) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> <404AB567-A2AB-42D9-9F20-FB66266A5E8F@comcast.net> Message-ID: > Allied Telesis made a "multi port tap" that provided four AUI ports off a > single Ethernet tap. I don't know if it was a repeater/hub inside, or what. > It was much smaller than a DELNI or DEREP. That totally sounds like the one located in the Cray. My guess is most people would hook AUI transceivers but they just run ribbon cables to 4 boards then I think the 10base2 feeds into a BNC T plugged into it. - Ethan From paulkoning at comcast.net Fri Aug 31 14:50:24 2018 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:50:24 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: References: <903e8758-66f1-9227-6f68-c9623c0a2f3b@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <468D9705-4005-4261-B9EF-708DE1A0AC40@comcast.net> <2F0C951F-D36E-4638-897F-E02AA79B78EB@comcast.net> <404AB567-A2AB-42D9-9F20-FB66266A5E8F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <498D9070-7A44-44B9-8D20-D8BE7B1B2FFB@comcast.net> > On Aug 31, 2018, at 3:32 PM, systems_glitch wrote: > > Allied Telesis made a "multi port tap" that provided four AUI ports off a single Ethernet tap. I don't know if it was a repeater/hub inside, or what. It was much smaller than a DELNI or DEREP. That's not surprising. The DEC boxes were from the very early days of 10 Mb/s Ethernet, when transceivers and repeaters were large complex circuits. Remember the DEUNA? That was two hex Unibus boards, quite full of stuff. Soon afterwards all that stuff was integrated into an IC or two. Transceivers were a bit more difficult because of the analog design involved, and not everyone got it right. I remember a 10Base2 transceiver chip that would take down VAXclusters by sending garbage occasionally. paul From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Aug 31 16:56:38 2018 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: from systems_glitch via cctalk at "Aug 31, 18 03:32:45 pm" Message-ID: <201808312156.w7VLuc7H19726556@floodgap.com> > Allied Telesis made a "multi port tap" that provided four AUI ports off a > single Ethernet tap. I don't know if it was a repeater/hub inside, or what. > It was much smaller than a DELNI or DEREP. Pretty sure I know the device you're talking about and I think it was a hub internally. I liked it a lot better than the DELNI. Come to think of it, I liked most of Allied Telesyn's stuff. I still have a 10Mbit hub of theirs handling the low speed systems and the 10b2 segment going to the HP 9000, and a whole mess of the transceivers which are periodically useful on AUI-only systems. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- #include ------------------------------------------------ From systems.glitch at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 17:01:26 2018 From: systems.glitch at gmail.com (systems_glitch) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 18:01:26 -0400 Subject: Thicknet/10base5 Test Segment: The Cable is In! In-Reply-To: <201808312156.w7VLuc7H19726556@floodgap.com> References: <201808312156.w7VLuc7H19726556@floodgap.com> Message-ID: Yeah, Allied Telesyn/Telesis made (and still makes!) really decent hardware at a midrange price. I often recommend their gigabit and PoE switches for cost-sensitive projects, especially where management isn't really needed. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:56 PM Cameron Kaiser via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Allied Telesis made a "multi port tap" that provided four AUI ports off a > > single Ethernet tap. I don't know if it was a repeater/hub inside, or > what. > > It was much smaller than a DELNI or DEREP. > > Pretty sure I know the device you're talking about and I think it was > a hub internally. I liked it a lot better than the DELNI. > > Come to think of it, I liked most of Allied Telesyn's stuff. I still have > a 10Mbit hub of theirs handling the low speed systems and the 10b2 segment > going to the HP 9000, and a whole mess of the transceivers which are > periodically useful on AUI-only systems. > > -- > ------------------------------------ personal: > http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * > ckaiser at floodgap.com > -- #include > ------------------------------------------------ > From sales at elecplus.com Fri Aug 31 17:04:09 2018 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 17:04:09 -0500 Subject: Lear Sielger keyboard for parts or repair Message-ID: <14d401d44176$8b678270$a2368750$@com> https://www.elecshopper.com/lear-siegler-adm-11-keyboard-for-parts-or-repair .html Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From sales at elecplus.com Fri Aug 31 17:09:07 2018 From: sales at elecplus.com (Electronics Plus) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 17:09:07 -0500 Subject: Lear Sielger keyboard for parts or repair (shorter link) In-Reply-To: <14d401d44176$8b678270$a2368750$@com> References: <14d401d44176$8b678270$a2368750$@com> Message-ID: <14d901d44177$3d32cc80$b7986580$@com> -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Electronics Plus via cctalk Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 5:04 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Lear Sielger keyboard for parts or repair https://bit.ly/2N8N8Io Original link too long, I guess! Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Aug 31 19:35:23 2018 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 17:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WTB: 64K cache SIMM (72-pin) Message-ID: <201809010035.w810ZN5v21495900@floodgap.com> Trying to restore an Alpha Micro ColdFire-based system, and it's missing its cache SIMM. It works without it, but it sure would be nice. AM doesn't have much info on it but it appears to be a 72-pin 64KB SIMM (unknown speed), same keying as 72-pin RAM SIMMs. I doubt this is a custom part and ISTR that PCs of around that time used something similar. If you've got something like this mouldering in your parts drawer, please advise. Thanks! -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Heisenberg may have been here. --------------------------------------------- From rick at rickmurphy.net Fri Aug 31 20:37:33 2018 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 21:37:33 -0400 Subject: WTB: 64K cache SIMM (72-pin) In-Reply-To: <201809010035.w810ZN5v21495900@floodgap.com> References: <201809010035.w810ZN5v21495900@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <2485917a-3eee-8a2e-26c9-4144278f9e05@rickmurphy.net> On 8/31/2018 8:35 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > Trying to restore an Alpha Micro ColdFire-based system, and it's missing > its cache SIMM. It works without it, but it sure would be nice. AM doesn't > have much info on it but it appears to be a 72-pin 64KB SIMM (unknown > speed), same keying as 72-pin RAM SIMMs. > > I doubt this is a custom part and ISTR that PCs of around that time used > something similar. If you've got something like this mouldering in your > parts drawer, please advise. Thanks! > I have three devices which if I remember right were cache modules, but they all appear to be 80 pin devices. Slightly longer pins than the typical 72-pin SIMMs, fit into a vertical socket on the MB.? Any chance you've got the pin count wrong? ??? -Rick From sellam.ismail at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 21:46:26 2018 From: sellam.ismail at gmail.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:46:26 -0700 Subject: VWoCW - New Items Posted for Sale from Sellam's Collection Message-ID: Hello Folks. I've got a new batch of stuff for your weekend perusing: A.R.T. Dutch Design EPP-1F E(E)Prom Programmer Radio Shack TRS-80 Twelve Meg Disk System Radio Shack TRS-80 Twelve Meg Disk System Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Mini Disk Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Mini Disk Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Mini Disk Exatron Stringy Floppy Drive Exatron Stringy Floppy Drive Panasonic JR-200U Personal Computer Panasonic RK-P400C 4-color Graphic Penwriter Qume QumeTrak 842 8" floppy disk drive 1-800-FLOPPYS Smart Communications System MFJ MFJ-1278B Multi-mode Data Controller Suncom side-mount joystick controller TI PHP1200 Peripheral Expansion System Network Computing Devices NCD XploraPro XQ As always, an index of links to the specific items above is available for your convenience in the New Arrivals Niche: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hiX0pNmy48/edit?pli=1#gid=949372371&range=A1 Thanks! Sellam