From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jan 1 08:29:45 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:07 2005 Subject: Best wishes for 2004 In-Reply-To: <10401010055.ZM19653@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040101142158.0323b008@pop.freeserve.net> At 00:55 01/01/2004 +0000, you wrote: >50 minutes late 'cuz I was responsible for the pyro *and* the >champagne (the bad weather may have cancelled the party in my home town >of Edinburgh, but we don't give up in York)... > LOL. We had pleny of 'pyro' here too (Salford) but saw and heard the fireworks in York (maybe yours) courtesy of "Most Haunted Live" on LivingTV which was coming from the Race Course. Best wishes to everyone! >Happy New Year to everyone on ClassicCmp, and very best wishes for >2004! > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 1 08:29:18 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:08 2005 Subject: End of Year report References: <200401010212.i012ClhI057489@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3d073$a4c387c0$4c63d6d1@DOMAIN> Happy New Year everyone. 2003 was a somewhat slow year compared to some before. But the shear size of my collection is now a regulating influence and finding stuff in the wild is getting tougher too. Worn out another station wagon... Moved *everything* for the 4th time. Teetering on the financial abyss. Still hasn't stopped me from adding this cool gear this year: Psion 5 OSI 300 SBC Symbolics 3640 x2 MITS Altair 8800b with MITS HD Controller and MITS HD Intersil Intercept Jr. and hombrew Display and Swich boards RCA VIP sbc with case Hope to find a job this year and a console for the Symbolics. Good luck with all your toys and for the ones your still lookling for. Should anyone be passing through Brunswick Ga (I-95 corridore) anytime, drop a note, drop by. Best Wishes - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From technobug at comcast.net Thu Jan 1 12:46:06 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:08 2005 Subject: Signetics Data Book In-Reply-To: <200401011800.i01I04iS085046@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401011800.i01I04iS085046@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:43:45 GMT, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Dec 31, 8:07, Joe wrote: >> There's nothing remotely similar to this number in either of my >> Signetics data books. Are you sure that it's a Signetics part? The > "MC" >> sounds more like a Motorola part. Is there a date code on the part? > > How old are the books? It's moderately recent (late 1990s), and I'm > fairly sure it's actually second-sourced by Philips from a Motorola > original (now obsolete, of course ;-)) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Signetics was acquired in 1975 by Philips. The current Signetics is a Korean assembly and test company which traces its lineage from the original Signetics. If there is actually a Signetics logo on the chip and the date code is from the late '90s, the number is probably a "house" number... You might look at and check the logo on the chip. There are a number of "S"s that are similar to the original Signetics log. Claude Ceccon From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Jan 1 15:25:50 2004 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:08 2005 Subject: On eBay: 50 hard-sector 5.25" floppies Message-ID: <200401012125.i01LPohI062788@io.crash.com> Need hard-sectored floppies? This guy's got at least 50 of them, used with the Northstar Horizon. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2776824061&category=1247 I don't own one, I can't use them, and I don't know this guy from Adam. But I don't come across them very often, so maybe someone on the list who does need them would appreciate the link. Enjoy, --Steve. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 1 15:43:46 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:08 2005 Subject: Best wishes for 2004 In-Reply-To: "Rob O'Donnell" "Re: Best wishes for 2004" (Jan 1, 14:29) References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040101142158.0323b008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <10401012143.ZM20533@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 1, 14:29, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 00:55 01/01/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > >50 minutes late 'cuz I was responsible for the pyro *and* the > >champagne (the bad weather may have cancelled the party in my home town > >of Edinburgh, but we don't give up in York)... > > > > LOL. We had pleny of 'pyro' here too (Salford) but saw and heard the > fireworks in York (maybe yours) courtesy of "Most Haunted Live" on LivingTV > which was coming from the Race Course. :-) Probably not mine, as I live on the other side of York, and I doubt if they'd be visible through the snow at that time -- but I did manage to get the first peonie burst on the stroke of midnight! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Jan 1 17:31:56 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:09 2005 Subject: Cleaning house (FS/T: lots o' stuff) In-Reply-To: <200401010207.VAA15247@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: I'm working on getting back to you all.. I've been busy and am now stuck at my parents house on AOL dialup : ( I'll try to get through the rest of the requests in a few minutes... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, der Mouse wrote: > >> + DEC 3000/300LX: 125MHz 61064 Alpha, 32MB RAM, 4GB HDD > >> $20 + shipping > >> + DEC 3000/300: 150MHz 61064 Alpha, 64MB RAM, 4GB HDD > >> $25 + shipping > > yet again, if these alphas are available, I'll take both of them. > > Hey! I want one! (I never got anything back, so I don't know of Pat > actually got my mail, though I'd assume so....) > > (The eternal dilemma of this hobby...there are only two kinds of > things: things of which there are too many around and things of which > there are too few around. It seems impossible to catch anything in the > transition phase.) > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From cmurray at eagle.ca Thu Jan 1 16:40:32 2004 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:09 2005 Subject: Happy New Years References: <200401011800.i01I04iR085046@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3FF4A1E0.66843BCB@eagle.ca> To all classic/orphan and 'old' computer collectors and enthusiasts wishing you all the very best computing for 2004. Murray-- cctalk-request@classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-owner@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > From ceo at coherent-logic.com Thu Jan 1 17:24:45 2004 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:09 2005 Subject: WTB: TU80 or other 9-track tape New Mexico, Arizona, West Texas Message-ID: Needs to be a TU80 or have a Unibus interface card to use with an 11/750 Contact off-list. Thanks! From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 1 17:48:04 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:09 2005 Subject: DECserver 90L+ for trade Message-ID: As faithful readers of The List will remember - I have three DECserver 90L+ ethernet terminal servers - which I tried very hard to make work like RS232 muxes - alas; I failed. So I would like to offer two of them in trade for a pair of RS232 mux boxen having 4 ports minimum, up to 8 or so - don't need more that 4 or 5 ports, but units having more are good too... and using some kind of copper between them (no fiber units - I have copper everywhere in the house, or soon will, but I'm too retro to be pulling glass around). I do think I'll hang on to one of them to try and use in my upcoming multi-purpose server scheme. These seem to work nicely, they were taken out of service - they have the power supplies and a four lengths of real Dec cable, along with 3 or four BNC Tees. No terminators, unfortunately... I'd like to do a straight swap - I'll ship FedEx anywhere in the world - lemme know what you might have. Cheers and let's all have a Nicer 04 - hmmm? John From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Jan 1 18:07:39 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:09 2005 Subject: Transputer-based Floppies (Highs & Lows of a haul) Message-ID: <0HQU001AA5OR5F@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Two years ago, I went down to Bath, England to pick up a major haul of transputer hardware, software, and documentation. The software was a packed box of 5-1/4 inch floppies of various stuff. The person I got this from didn't really care too much about the software and wanted to dump the whole thing in the dumpster. It was a good thing he asked me 1st before doing this! Here are the highs: 1) Found numberous drivers and programs for various transtech and inmos boards (yipee!). These are very hard to come by 2) Found schematics and source for A LOT of transputer boards that were manufactured including PAL equations, gerber files, etc 3) Found *original* disks of Microsoft Quick Basic 4.0, Turbo C, and MS Windows 1.0 Here is the lows: 1) Apparently, some clown overwrote several *ORIGINAL* disks from INMOS with his/her own applications and programs. This is a HUGE disappointment for me as some of the disks were drivers for boards that are almost impossible to get (e.g. B009, B006, Portakit, among other rare stuff) :-( I havent gone over ALL the disks as it is quite large, but I am currently in the process of creating images for several of the disks. Stay tuned.... Cheers, Ram PS: Happy New Year!!!! From stuart at zen.co.uk Thu Jan 1 09:35:10 2004 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:09 2005 Subject: new year clearout 2004 and looking for.. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040101142158.0323b008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: Hi all and happy new year! I'm planning a bit of a rationalisation concerning my computer bits, so would anyone have a home for the following: DEC Rainbow - two chassis and parts, keyboard screen etc just add HD ICL OPD - with manuals and some pods, only headless SGI Iris 4D/25 Various ACT Apricot spares and boards Atari 520ST Free to collect in the NW, UK. I'm still on the lookout for: PS/2 model 80 ACT Sirius If anyone can help. Cheers. Stu From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 1 18:29:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:10 2005 Subject: new year clearout 2004 and looking for.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Stuart, I can be a home for the OPD and manuals, and have you got a PSU for an Apricot XI HD20? I'm in the North-east :) cheers, and happy new year to all! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of stuart > Sent: 01 January 2004 15:35 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: new year clearout 2004 and looking for.. > > > > Hi all and happy new year! > > I'm planning a bit of a rationalisation concerning my computer bits, so > would anyone have a home for the following: > > DEC Rainbow - two chassis and parts, keyboard screen etc just add HD > ICL OPD - with manuals and some pods, only headless > SGI Iris 4D/25 > Various ACT Apricot spares and boards > Atari 520ST > > Free to collect in the NW, UK. > > I'm still on the lookout for: > > PS/2 model 80 > ACT Sirius > > If anyone can help. > > Cheers. > > Stu > > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 1 18:31:07 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:10 2005 Subject: Best wishes for 2004 In-Reply-To: <10401010055.ZM19653@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 01 January 2004 00:55 > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Best wishes for 2004 > > > 50 minutes late 'cuz I was responsible for the pyro *and* the > champagne (the bad weather may have cancelled the party in my home town > of Edinburgh, but we don't give up in York)... Apparently everything was cancelled in Newcastle too - good job we were at home getting drunk with friends :o) All the best! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Jan 1 18:44:28 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: pdp11/34 restoration : question & items sought In-Reply-To: <3CFEBA64-3B94-11D8-A094-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> References: <3CFEBA64-3B94-11D8-A094-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <1073004268.18266.3.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 05:21, Jos Dreesen wrote: > My recently acquired 11/34 has a few missing parts : > the boot proms of the M9301 and the M7850 parity board. > > It does have 16K mos memory and the full programmer panel. > > However, when I fire it up, I cannot halt the processor, the RUN light > stays on. I had this problem on my 11/34a and it turned out to be the console board. Putting in a new one fixed it and I could do things (ie enter, examine and run programs). But before you do that, you do know how the programmer panel operates? (ie you have to press control and halt to get it to halt). > > Could this be due to the missing parts ? > > And of course, to complement the system, I am looking for the following > parts : > > - the missing items of course > - an unibus RL11 controller. Are these rare ? > - Some more memory. > > > Jos Dreesen , Zurich Switzerland -- TTFN - Guy From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Jan 1 19:42:56 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Musings on 2003 Message-ID: <3FF4CCA0.9080003@charter.net> The year 2003 was a pretty good year for me. My Sgi collection grew from 1 to 15 units (8 are Iris Indigo's from 1992-93 and are now properly "on topic"), Sun's from 3 to 9, I've lost count of Mac's and Mac clones and I gave my Amiga's away to another collector, I finally got that Daystar Millennium that had proved so elusive, my NeXT (all NeXT's are now on-topic) collection grew from 3 to 5 with a ton of new documentation, software and accessories, and I still have not found my MaxxBoxx. I have also had to come to grips with the fact that my space is not infinite. I'm getting better organized, but stuff came in faster than it could be repaired, restored, cataloged or even stored properly. I've started considering purchases more carefully, not just grabbing every thing that crosses my path. Target has probably doubled the sale of Sterlite bins in the State of Texas because of my efforts to sort and organize. Most of all this year has taught me just how much I have to learn to be able to put all of my collection to productive use. I also need to thank my beautiful and patient wife, who didn't even flinch when a semi pulled up to our driveway and dumped three pallets of Sgi equipment behind her Volvo. She has also learned not to question why I need to make a no notice 800 mile round trip to rescue a homeless workstation. To all my fellow collectors, I wish you a Happy New Year. May you find what ever you are seaching for and at a cost much less than you were prepared to pay for it! James Director of The Texas State Home for Wayward and Homeless Computers -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From shirsch at adelphia.net Thu Jan 1 19:56:18 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Jumpering for NEC FD-1165H 8-inch floppy drive Message-ID: Title says it. Can anyone point me to online data for this elderly device? I'm trying to get mine working with a Compaticard IV on an older '486 PC. For reasons I do not understand, the motor isn't starting although the heads load and step properly. DC power looks fine going into the drive, but the motor is not seeing any of it. Steve From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jan 1 21:38:23 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: new year clearout 2004 and looking for.. In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040101142158.0323b008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040102032819.02589128@pop.freeserve.net> At 15:35 01/01/2004 +0000, stuart wrote: >I'm still on the lookout for: > >ACT Sirius is that a "Sirius 1" ? -edit- a quick google and yep, I presume it is... If so... I *had* two... a twin floppy-with-external-hard disc and a single-floppy-with-internal-hard-disc unit. One of them might still be at my parents house, and one of the might still be in my ex-wife's attic room, if she's not chucked it along with everything else I left in there... (grr.) I will make enquiries in both directions. Both in NW UK too, so you might be extra lucky ! I think I do still have some of the system software here, though, DOS 1.x I believe, some applications, utilities, etc. Also have a copy of BOS, an alternate operating system which was an interpretative system that ran a number of cobol based business applications (and which is still going strong, although they've moved on a bit since.) All that will be buried in the boxes, though, but if it's the right machine, and the machines are still where I last left them, I'll dig them out too. Regards Rob From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Jan 1 23:48:23 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Jumpering for NEC FD-1165H 8-inch floppy drive References: Message-ID: <004f01c3d0f4$099b5bc0$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > Title says it. Can anyone point me to online data for this elderly > device? No, but I have the straps for teh FD1165-FQ, as used in my media conversion systems. I am looking at a "naked" drive right now, with the front towards the right. I can see a number of straps, e.g. the one called US. This one has a jumper on the righthand part, and is therefore designated below as US 1 Are you sure the voltages are on the correct pins ? Ok, here they come, from top to botton (top = drive's left hand side, upside down). I hhope I have them all : US 1 USR 2 L 1 RX 1 FR 1 DR nothing DH nothing DL nothing Dx L1 (device number) CS 1 HL 2 MT 1 FU nothing TI nothing SWF 1 BS 2 BU 2 DLK 2 From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Fri Jan 2 04:55:40 2004 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive ? References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031231160350.03b643d0@cirithi> <3FF36071.8000003@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3FF54E2E.FFDF9231@cs.ubc.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > > Those are NOT DTL chips! > > Your looking at CTL logic, which uses a circuit similar to an uncommited > emitter output rather than the > conventional totem-ploe output stage. > > There are no drop-in replacements, and you cannot use DTL or TTL parts. > > Jay Jaeger wrote: > > > > The logic in my IOMEC 1802 controller that is unhappy has Fairchild > > chips -- not standard 74xx fare. It may well be that they are DTL > > (sample markings on one are DT uL909759 7020), which I am currently > > guessing is a 9097 chip. > > > > Jay Jaeger > > I don't have a reference for exactly "DT uL909759", but based on my (albeit limited) experience with an HP 2116C that recently came into my possession(*), I think the situation may be a little more complex/subtle. (*: a real blinkenlights machine, forget LEDs: over 80 incandescent bulbs :) (the downside being the bulbs are difficult to get).) The majority of the innards (CPU/memory) of the 2116 is based on Fairchild CTuL: Complementary Transistor MicroLogic. This is a form of emitter-coupled, non-saturating, current-mode logic. It might be described as an early ECL family, or a precursor to the more standard/common ECL families. Supply voltages are +4.5V and -2V. However, some of the I/O controllers for my machine uses both CTuL *and* standard TTL, with the TTL running (borderline) off the 4.5V supply. A Fairchild booklet (Fairchild Semiconductor Integrated Circuits) from 1966 which covers Fairchild's product line, from RTL/DTL/TTL,CTL/linear,early MOS,etc. (a great 'period' snapshot of early IC technology, complete with discussion of logic families, IC pinouts and full page colour photos of IC internals in lovely 60's colours), presents the following part numbers: under DTuL, Low Power: (Diode-Transistor Logic) 9040, 9041, 9042 under DTuL: (Diode-Transistor Logic) ..., 9951, ..., 9961, ... under CTuL: (Complementary-Transistor Logic) 9952, 9953, 9954, 9955, 9956, 9957, 9964, 9965, 9966, 9967, 9968, 9971 under CuL: (yet another logic family: Counter MicroLogic, not to be confused with CTuL) 9958, ..., 9960, ... under TTuL: (TTL of course) 9000 ... 9009 (Note: the u in these logic family names is actually greek 'mu'/micro) While individual 4-digit part numbers are exclusive to a particular device (i.e. 9958 does not show up in two logic families (although I can't answer for what happened after 1966)), there is little to be said for grouping of logic-family <--> number-sequence. ...back to "DT uL909759 7020", the 7020 is presumably the date code; what the "59" digits are doing there I too would like to know (I have run across other HP equipment with, for example, a Fairchild IC "CuL 996079", whose functionality matches that of the CuL 9960 listed in the above booklet). My guess, as you (Jay) guessed, is that your chip is a Diode-Transistor-Logic 9097 (dual M/S J/K FF), but as Bob indicates, you may be dealing with CTuL in the rest of the machine or even on the same board. (Actually, I would be curious to know whether the 2114 used CTuL, like the 2116, or whether HP did two versions of the CPU logic and used slower, less-power-hungry DTL in the 2114.) Another possible way to distinguish ICs of the two families: the booklet shows all the DTuL ICs with standard Vcc=pin 14 and GND=pin 7. On the CTuL family, supplies are Vcc=pin 12, GND=pin 5, Vee=pin 11. From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Jan 2 07:59:00 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: MSB - "Most Significant Bits" or" Museum Service Bureau" References: Message-ID: <000801c3d138$93933de0$2201a8c0@finans> Hi all In a conversation with Curt Vendel regarding a Shaffstall adapter he needed, I offered him something else for the purpose. This offer has now evolved into something quite different, on which I would like to year your collective opinion. As most of you know, my interest is in media conversion, and not in collecting as such. I very often see posts like "I need to read so and so, who can help me". What I now suggest, is that we create two non-profit non-commercial "organisations" or "service bureau" or what you want to call it, one for everything west of the Atlantic, and one for the everything east. The purpose of these bureaus should be to assist collectors in copying software and data while the media are still readable on the hardware available. The reason for splitting it in two, are (1) freight and customs handling (xrays etc...) and (2) many european systems never made it to the US, or have been scrapped years ago. Examples are systems like Regnecentralen, Rovsing, Norsk Data, Philips PTS, and others you probably never even heard of. To start with, I can offer the use of my (company) service bureau, as described on www.farumdata.dk/enserv.htm I have been thinking on the financial side too. We will without a doubt be forced to buy hardware sometimes, e.g. via eBay, partly because things _can_ and _will_ break sometimes, and partly because the range of drives is to be enlarged.. It is only fair that these costs are coverd by the users of the service bureau. So, what I was thinking of, is a fee of maybe 3-4 Euros (4 - 5 US$) per floppy, and a bit more for a streamer. Plus P & P. In case of Operating Systems, patches, or other files which could be interesting for other collectors, a weekly or monthly CD could be sent off to e.g. Jay West, for inclusion in his archival system. Your comments would be appreciated Happy NewYear to all of you Nico From felten at vaxnet.de Fri Jan 2 07:58:03 2004 From: felten at vaxnet.de (felten@vaxnet.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: TU80 and F880 magtapes, cleaning and usage? Message-ID: <5723678$10730502633ff57297e0f434.22021603@config11.schlund.de> Hello, I've connected a Cipher F880 to a qbus pdp11 using a Emulex TC02. Althrough I've got the complete doc for the TC02, I can't get the drive to work correctly. The OS is 2.11BSD, and the error message is: ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=350 xs1=2 xs2=100000 and somtimes a bn280 I get this message when writing or reading the tape, using tar or dd. I've configured the TC02 to factory defaults, except 22bit addressing is enabled. But should I select Streaming or Formatted mode ? The speed select is currently set to > 50 ips, should I set it to 0-50 ips? Of course it could be the F880, so I tried to use the TU80, but it does not make a big change. The TU80-test (test 01) uses a write-enabled tape to test the drive, sometimes it stops with error code 04 or 06 (the manual is not very specific: error codes 0-9 are read/write errors) and sometimes a 12 (hub not latched). Could it be that my tapemeadia is bad? I've got a Burroughs tape, labeled 23Mar79, and a couple of old tapes form 'eastern germany' without any date. How should I clean the heads of the tapedrives? (used some cleaner for tapedecks) And for the TU80, should I clean the small holes for the air-bearing? I'm not really used to use this kind of gear, so I don't know the common problems using tapes. Regards, Lothar From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Jan 2 08:26:11 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: TU80 and F880 magtapes, cleaning and usage? References: <5723678$10730502633ff57297e0f434.22021603@config11.schlund.de> Message-ID: <000801c3d13c$61cdb520$2201a8c0@finans> From: To: Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: TU80 and F880 magtapes, cleaning and usage? > > Hello, > > I've connected a Cipher F880 to a qbus pdp11 using a Emulex TC02. > Althrough I've got the complete doc for the TC02, I can't get the drive > to work correctly. I know nothing about neither Emulex nor PDP, but I do know about 9 track drives, especially M4 and Qualstar. Have you seen http://www.electrovalueinc.com/9_track_drives.htm ? The drive has built-in diagnostics, so this is the first thing to try. Tapes deteriorate with age, so that could be the problem too. Another problem could be "stitching", which looks as if layes of tape are glued together. According to the web site mentioned before, the drive is 1600/3200 bpi, so you will not be able to read 800 and 6250 bpi tapes. For cleaning, you need isopropylalcohol. Dont forget to clean the "knife" just in front of the read/write head. Some drives (I am not familiar with the Cipher drives of that period) have a small "vacuum cleaner" just before the read/write heads. If you cant get it working, and nobody else can help you, I would be happy to try to read the tape and copy it to a CD. Please see my recent mail "Most Significant Bits" All the best Nico From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Jan 2 09:26:07 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: 211BSD install Message-ID: I'm doing some research on what it'll take to get 211BSD installed on my PDP after I get all the hardware installed and working correctly. It looks like I'm going to need to make a boot tape to install it. Is there any other method that I could use? I'm also assuming that I will need to get a TK50, a TK70 or the like. I'm going to be installing this system with a SCSI controller that speaks MSCP and (hopefully) TMSCP, and I was really hoping that I could get away with creating the installation tape with the SCSI DAT drive I have... Thanks in advance! Back to reading about the KDJ11-B, Chris From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Jan 2 10:38:20 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: 211BSD install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF59E7C.9020304@4mcnabb.net> Christopher Cureau wrote: >I'm doing some research on what it'll take to get 211BSD installed on my >PDP after I get all the hardware installed and working correctly. It >looks like I'm going to need to make a boot tape to install it. Is there >any other method that I could use? > > > I used vtserver (http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/vtserver.htm) for this exact purpose last week. You will need a PC with a serial port and some sort of unixish O/S. I've used it with success under Solaris and Linux. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 2 10:37:28 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: 211BSD install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040102173728.58e50204.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:26:07 -0600 "Christopher Cureau" wrote: > Is there any other method that I could use? Create a disk image with an emulator and push it to the PDP-11 with vtserver? > I'm also assuming that I will need to get a TK50, a TK70 or the like. Or a TU80 or a TS11 or ... see setup.ps for supported tapes. > I'm going to be installing this system with a SCSI controller that > speaks MSCP and (hopefully) TMSCP, and I was really hoping that I > could get away with creating the installation tape with the SCSI DAT > drive I have... This may work. You should take care to create the boot tape the right way. The dd(1) method from the HOWTO file doesn't work. Use maketape. This ensures that all files are written with the correct block sizes to the tape. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 2 11:39:49 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive? Message-ID: <200401021739.i02Hdn3A030380@spies.com> > I don't have a reference for exactly "DT uL909759" -- I'm in the process of scanning the 1969 f data book and have finished the logic part. The scan will be up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fairchild/_dataBooks later today. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 2 12:08:28 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: 211BSD install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'm also assuming that I will need to get a TK50, a TK70 or the like. I'm >going to be installing this system with a SCSI controller that speaks MSCP >and (hopefully) TMSCP, and I was really hoping that I could get away with >creating the installation tape with the SCSI DAT drive I have... I'm definitely not the right person to be making comments about 2.11BSD, however, I don't see why a SCSI DAT Drive wouldn't work in place of a TK50. I've installed RSTS/E and some of the layered products from DAT tapes. Though I still can't get DECnet/E to install from a DAT... (been threating to get back to working on that this weekend) Based on what little I've looked at 2.11BSD (I've never gotten it installed), I think that you can simply build the tape on a Unix box following instructions that are out there. I ran into two problems, I was trying to build the tape on a VMS box, and my SCSI controller wasn't supported at the time. BTW, if you're going SCSI, a TZ30 would be a potential option instead of a TK50 (though I prefer cleaning TK50 drives to TZ30 drives). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 2 12:19:46 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: EXEC-PC BBS? In-Reply-To: References: <200312292353.RAA11382@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <1072804982.2252.24.camel@linux.local> <48b065694c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <1072886050.2245.28.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <1073067586.2163.24.camel@linux.local> On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 10:19, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <1072886050.2245.28.camel@linux.local> > Paul Berger wrote: >> He may be crazy keeping it running, but he's my sort of crazy. > Mine too. "Damn those new fangled uber-servers! This 20-year-old PC/386 > cluster will do just fine!" He converted it from a system pretty much as you describe at it's peak it consited of 5 novell severs with a total of 40+ hard drives and over 100 PCs (bare motherboards actually) networked together in racks made ot of plywood with slots cut in them to slide the motherboards into. It was an interesting artitechture and the main reason it was as scaleable as it was. January 1st 1999 it access to the BBS was made free and at the same tme it was announce it was scheduled to be shut-down in June of 1999 over possible Y2K issues. In late 2000, seeing the BBS survived Y2K unscathed, some of the few remaining employees converted the BBS to just one server with four 73gb drives and five & telnet and five dial-up nodes for the few people that still used it. This is how it sat till the middle of 2003 where it apparently started having problems and was down most the time. As I mentioned at this point Curt at this time decided to give it a new home and is currently in the process of setting it up in his basement. The e-mail I recied from him indicated he planned on having it running and available early January. Regards, Paul From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 2 12:23:07 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: EXEC-PC BBS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073067786.2162.29.camel@linux.local> On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 11:09, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Paul Berger wrote: > > > I just about gave up but decided to thow a an e-mail at Curt Shambeau's > > old execpc.com e-mail address. I was supprised to receive a reply by > > Curt, one of the orginals from ExecPC, and received a reply that he is > > in the process of relocating the BBS in his basement and plans on having > > it back up in January. Apparently he's too fond of the 20yr old BBS to > > let it die. > > Good work! > > Maybe you can convince him to let someone host a mirror of the file base? I'll see how much data is there and if he's interested once he get's it back up and running. There has to be alot of information there that classic computer people would be interested in seeing the BBS started Nov '83. > > I would like to get ahold of the creator of XFS NFS client for DOS to > > see if he would like to make it public domain or better yet release the > > source under some sort of Open Source Licence (BSD, GPL, whatever). > > Enough Googling and you should eventually come across the author's current > contact info. I've tried without much luck, last post was from a univerity in Germany. I'll keep digging now and then and see what I find. Regards, Paul From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 2 12:28:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: EXEC-PC BBS? In-Reply-To: <1073067586.2163.24.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Paul Berger wrote: > He converted it from a system pretty much as you describe at it's peak > it consited of 5 novell severs with a total of 40+ hard drives and over > 100 PCs (bare motherboards actually) networked together in racks made ot > of plywood with slots cut in them to slide the motherboards into. It > was an interesting artitechture and the main reason it was as scaleable > as it was. Wow! That's really cool. Did they ever document it, like with pictures and stuff? That deserves preservation in some computer history archive. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jan 2 13:33:49 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: List of Sun VMEbus boards available Message-ID: <20040102192309.GZ5232@rhiannon.rddavis.org> The following is a list of some boards that are taking up a lot of space. I still have most of the following. Let me know what you're interested in, what you think they're worth (cash or trade), etc. I've reached the point where I'm tired of them taking up a lot of space and am becoming tempted to just start pulling out all socketed chips and removing the non-socketed chips with a blowtorch. Who wants to save them from such a fate? Pickup preferred. 501-1153 - Sun-2 Ethernet Controller 501-8010 - Sun-3 CPU - which one? 501-1164 - 4MB Sun-3, Carrera (4/75, etc.) 501-1206 - 0MB Sun-3/2xx 501-1206 501-1206 501-1208 - 4MB Sun-3, Carrera (4/75, etc.) 501-1208 501-1208 501-1268 - Graphics accellerator, "Graphics Processor Two" (GP2) 501-1268 501-1268 501-1089 - Sun-3 color double-buffered frame buffer C03 501-1089 501-1116 - Sun-3 color frame buffer CG3 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1116 501-1267 - Sun-3 color frame buffer CG5 501-1267 501-8520 - some sort of color frame buffer w/ "Special products" tag attached 501-1054 - Ungermann Bass CATV network transceiver 501-1139 - Graphics Processor Plus 501-1139 501-8001 - appears similar to the above 501-8001 501-1132 - Carrera memory - 4MB 501-8006 - same as above 501-8006 501-1105 - Floating point accelerator 501-8004 - same as above, I think 501-1166 - Xylogics 451 VMEbus SMD disk controller 501-1249 - Ciprico Tapemaster 1/2" controller 501-1249 501-8011 - looks like one of the above 501-1221 - Sunlink multi-prococol comms processor (MCP) 501-1157 - 16-port board 501-1162 - Sun 3/50 with a Sunflower Computer SFXMX memory board 501-1162 - same as above 501-1158 - Dual 1/2" tape (listing says SunLink serial comm. processor, SCP) 501-1155 - Dual 1/2" tape, Xylogics 472 1/2" tape ctrlr. 9U VMEbus 501-1149 - Sun-2 SCSI host adapter assembly, internal SCSI 501-1149 501-1149 501-1203 - 16-channel asynch. line multiplexer-2 (ALM-2) ???-???? - same as above, no ID tag, no handles 501-1217 - Sun-3 SCSI host adapter assembly, external SCSI 501-1217 501-1217 501-1217 501-1217 501-1217 part number? - Color printer board GPIB-1014-15 - National Instruments GPIB board Systech VPC-2200 on a AVIV VMEbus adapter card 027-100G6 FiberCom WLAN/VME 027-100G2 FiberCom VME Card WhisperNet board with VMSbus interface circuitry only empty VMS-bus "frame"-only boards -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From fm.arnold at gmx.net Fri Jan 2 13:38:04 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Signetics Data Book In-Reply-To: <200401021802.i02I1miU090851@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401021802.i02I1miU090851@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 02.01.2004: >--------------------- >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:07:53 -0500 >From: Joe >Subject: Re: Signetics Data Book >To: rcarson@localnet.com, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts" >Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031231080753.0086e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > There's nothing remotely similar to this number in either of my >Signetics data books. Are you sure that it's a Signetics part? The "MC" >sounds more like a Motorola part. Is there a date code on the part? > > Joe > > >At 04:01 PM 12/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi Eric, >> >>I saw something you put on the web last year. Do you have an old >>Signetics data book? I'm trying to find a schematic for the inside of a >>Signetics MC3361 chip. Can you help me. Thanks. >> >>Bob Carson >> >> >--------------------- I found following in IC-masters 1986: (p114, c2) MC3361 is a Motorola part, but there is also a part made by Signettics known as PCD3361. according to Mot. it is the low voltage version of MC3357, and that is an: Low power FM-IF for dual conversion scanning receivers. The signeticspart (with similar number!) is discribed as: programmable multi-tone telephone ringer. So nothing to to do with computers, hope it helps you anyway. Frank From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Fri Jan 2 14:28:43 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? Message-ID: Hi All, I just picked up on of these but no docs/sw. Anyone know where I could snag a copy of the system disks? Thanks. dc From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 2 15:17:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > I just picked up on of these but no docs/sw. Anyone know where I could > snag a copy of the system disks? Hi Damien. I have a set. Contact me privately. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Jan 2 19:59:36 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: VT340 information Message-ID: I'm looking for information on my VT340+. What I want is in Volume 1 of the programming manual (the Text part, not the Graphics part). I've tried google and looking on vt100.net, among other places. What I'd really like to know is how to change colors while in text mode on the VT340. It doesn't take ANSI color strings ( ESC [ x ; y x ), so it's gotta be someting else if it is possible. If anyone knows, I'd much appreciate the response : ) Thanks, Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 2 19:37:03 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'm looking for information on my VT340+. What I want is in Volume 1 of > the programming manual (the Text part, not the Graphics part). I've > tried google and looking on vt100.net, among other places. > > What I'd really like to know is how to change colors while in text mode > on the VT340. It doesn't take ANSI color strings ( ESC [ x ; y x ), so > it's gotta be someting else if it is possible. > > If anyone knows, I'd much appreciate the response : ) I'm also interested in this information, and haven't yet found anything online. Also, if anyone turns up a service manual for a VT340, I'd like to obtain a copy. -Toth From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 2 20:34:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Old Matrox Drivers Message-ID: <003501c27f10$3c4f9d10$0500fea9@game> Anybody have drivers or manual for the old matrox MGA -VLB/2+ card (1994 vintage)? Cant seem to find much on this card on google or matrox site From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 2 21:26:07 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: DEC 11/34 on eBay Message-ID: Seems to be a company who has a lot of semiconductor processing Stuff... just the (big) box and a card complement - listed - but no peripherals of any kind. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1504&item=2585678980 Cheers John From aek at spies.com Sat Jan 3 00:46:06 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Jumpering for NEC FD-1165H 8-inch floppy drive Message-ID: <200401030646.i036k6CZ022224@spies.com> > Can anyone point me to online data www.bitsavers.org/pdf/nec/FD1165_maint.pdf From paul at frixxon.co.uk Sat Jan 3 03:55:52 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF691A8.2000709@frixxon.co.uk> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > What I'd really like to know is how to change colors while in text mode on > the VT340. It doesn't take ANSI color strings ( ESC [ x ; y x ), so it's > gotta be someting else if it is possible. The Text Programming manual doesn't provide much information about this, except to say (offhand, while dealing with differences between the VT241 and VT340) that the VT340 maps character attributes to colours, if you've set the "Color Map" feature in the Global Set-Up screen to "color 2". Colour map entry 7 corresponds to normal, 8 to negative and 15 to bold. It doesn't say how combinations of visual attributes map to colour map entries, so I'd set up 7 to 15 in different colours and experiment! There are two ways of setting up the displayed colours: 1. Using RGB or HLS coordinates in ReGIS mode. (Easy, as you've got the Graphics Programming volume) 2. Uploading all the colours at once, using DECRSTS to restore a colour table map. This needs some experimenting, so here are some hints from the manual: Request Color Table Report (DECRQTSR) CSI 2 ; Ps2 $ u where Ps2 = 0 -> HLS (default); 1 -> HLS; 2 -> RGB The terminal will send back a Color Table Report (DECCTR) DCS 2 $ s D...D ST where D...D is the data string containing the color table information. The data string is divided into groups of five values, as follows. Pc; Pu; Px; Py; Pz / Pc; Pu; Px; Py; Pz / ... where Pc is the color number (0 through 255). ; (semicolon, 3/11) separates the parameters. Pu indicates the universal coordinate system used (1=HLS,2=RGB) Px;Py;Pz are color coordinates in the specified coordinate system. Param HLS Values RGB Balues Px 0 to 360 (hue angle) 0 to 100 (red intensity) Py 0 to 100 (lightness) 0 to 100 (green intensity) Pz 0 to 100 (saturation) 0 to 100 (blue intensity) You can then restore color table information with: Restore Terminal State (DECRSTS) DCS 2 $ p D...D ST where D...D is as above. You could try restoring a partial table with this method. I'd like to know what happens. -- Paul From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jan 2 21:26:13 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Old Matrox Drivers In-Reply-To: <003501c27f10$3c4f9d10$0500fea9@game> References: <003501c27f10$3c4f9d10$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040102222505.024ff3c8@mail.n.ml.org> look for the drivers under the chipset. they made one with vlb and the same chipset was pci, so in theory, you could use the same drivers for it (saw diamond claim this with s3 chips back in mid 90's). -John Boffemmyer IV At 12:58 AM 10/29/2002, you wrote: >Anybody have drivers or manual for the old matrox MGA -VLB/2+ card (1994 >vintage)? >Cant seem to find much on this card on google or matrox site ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From GaryFloy at aol.com Fri Jan 2 17:11:26 2004 From: GaryFloy at aol.com (GaryFloy@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Portable III Message-ID: Bill, do you still have the Portable III. I would be intrested in it.Please advise. Thaks Gary From jfelix at iac.net Fri Jan 2 16:38:40 2004 From: jfelix at iac.net (Joe Felix) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: HP 5036A Message-ID: <000301c3d181$2e75bc00$9865fea9@TOWER> Hello, I read in some posts online that you were planning on making available some info on the HP5036A Microprocessor Trainer Lab. I just bought one on eBay (without any manual) and I am interested in learning as much as I can about this. Do you have any materials online? Can I buy photocopies from you? Thank you in advance, Joe Felix jfelix@iac.net From felten at vaxnet.de Sat Jan 3 04:10:01 2004 From: felten at vaxnet.de (felten@vaxnet.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ703 SCSI - TMSCP controller Message-ID: <5723678$10731244003ff69430613175.25467637@config6.schlund.de> [Hello, I'm forwarding this] I have a Dilog DQ703 SCSI - TMSCP controller, and noted that Dilog also makes a Disc MSCP versions of this. Is it possible to change the protocol of this controller to Disc-MSCP by changeing the firmware, and if yes, who knows a source for a copy of this firmware? I am also looking for a (copy or scan of) the manual and other documentation for this controller. Thanks in avance [Lothar] From tomj at wps.com Sat Jan 3 04:30:25 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive ? In-Reply-To: <3FF36071.8000003@tiac.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031231160350.03b643d0@cirithi> <3FF36071.8000003@tiac.net> Message-ID: <1073125203.2772.2.camel@fiche.home.wps.com> I've got a bunch of old CCSL and CSL datasheets on my website, at http://wps.com/archives/solid-state-datasheets/index.html The 9097 is there. It's funky old stuff! tomj On Wed, 2003-12-31 at 15:49, Bob Shannon wrote: > Those are NOT DTL chips! > > Your looking at CTL logic, which uses a circuit similar to an uncommited > emitter output rather than the > conventional totem-ploe output stage. > > There are no drop-in replacements, and you cannot use DTL or TTL parts. > > Jay Jaeger wrote: > > > I have one I am working on -- attached to an HP 2114. The drive spins > > up and can seek. The interface cards in the CPU pass their > > diagnostics, but the controller is locking up -- looks like a problem > > in the state flip flops that control the early part of a command. > > > > Also, my guess is that this one is 1.2MB, not 2.5MB. It has one > > fixed platter and one removable platter. It also is exhibiting > > head/disk interference ("ting") on unload, but so far doesn't seem to > > be damaging anything when it does it (but I am using junk pack, just > > in case -- can't tell if the ting is coming from the fixed or > > removable platter). > > > > If you want to recover the data, you might consider putting the > > platter into an RK05, doing an a/d and capture of the raw data (or > > even the bit stream after recovery) from the pack. Might be safer. > > > > The logic in my IOMEC 1802 controller that is unhappy has Fairchild > > chips -- not standard 74xx fare. It may well be that they are DTL > > (sample markings on one are DT uL909759 7020), which I am currently > > guessing is a 9097 chip. > > > > Jay Jaeger > > > > At 11:11 AM 8/26/2003 -0500, Tom Uban wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> Is there any chance that someone has an Iomec removable platter > >> disk drive? The type that I am looking for uses an IBM 2315 style > >> 2.5Mb cartridge, similar to an RK05. > >> > >> I know that this is a pretty futile request, but it never hurts > >> to ask... > >> > >> --tom > > > > > > --- > > Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection > > cube1@charter.net > > > > > > > From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 3 06:01:15 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c3d1f1$49f4f660$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I'm also interested in this information, and haven't yet > found anything online. I don't think the VT340 programming manual is online, although http://vt100.net does have the graphics programming manual up. > Also, if anyone turns up a service manual for a VT340, I'd > like to obtain a copy. Again vt100.net has the VT330 pocket service guide, which might at least provide some clues. If Fred reads this, I expect he'll point you to links for: EK-VT340-IP-003 VT340 VIDEO TERMINAL Illustrated Parts Breakdown EK-VT34R-SV-001 VT340+ Model G Service Guide EK-VT330-IP-003 VT330 VIDEO TERMINAL Illustrated Parts Breakdown EK-VT330-PS-002 VT330 Pocket Service Guide EK-VT33R-SV-001 VT330+ Models G, H, and J Service Guide Otherwise, email me in a few days and I'll see how big they are and find some suitable way of getting the ones you want to you. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cube1 at charter.net Sat Jan 3 08:45:03 2004 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive ? In-Reply-To: <3FF36071.8000003@tiac.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031231160350.03b643d0@cirithi> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040103083728.03e12a48@cirithi> Actually, at least some of them (9094 JK flip flops) are indeed DTL. Some are closer to TTL. None of them seem to involve uncommitted emitters, though some of them appear to be fairly standard uncommitted *collectors* (and in at least once case involve the use of wired-or, which means I would have to use an open collector TTL part if I had to replace it, perhaps also requiring a pull-up somewhere). Some of them (e.g. 9097) are apparently CTL, but I don't know that there is a lot of that there, and the board I am most likely having problems with appears to be all CCSL. The family termed CCSL by Fairchild - Compatible Current Sinking Logic - seem to be largely compatible with TTL, within source/link limitations, though pinouts are likely to be different, and therefore a possible problem area. Jay At 06:49 PM 12/31/2003 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: >Those are NOT DTL chips! > >Your looking at CTL logic, which uses a circuit similar to an uncommited >emitter output rather than the >conventional totem-ploe output stage. > >There are no drop-in replacements, and you cannot use DTL or TTL parts. > >Jay Jaeger wrote: > >>I have one I am working on -- attached to an HP 2114. The drive spins up >>and can seek. The interface cards in the CPU pass their diagnostics, but >>the controller is locking up -- looks like a problem in the state flip >>flops that control the early part of a command. >> >>Also, my guess is that this one is 1.2MB, not 2.5MB. It has one fixed >>platter and one removable platter. It also is exhibiting head/disk >>interference ("ting") on unload, but so far doesn't seem to be damaging >>anything when it does it (but I am using junk pack, just in case -- can't >>tell if the ting is coming from the fixed or removable platter). >> >>If you want to recover the data, you might consider putting the platter >>into an RK05, doing an a/d and capture of the raw data (or even the bit >>stream after recovery) from the pack. Might be safer. >> >>The logic in my IOMEC 1802 controller that is unhappy has Fairchild chips >>-- not standard 74xx fare. It may well be that they are DTL (sample >>markings on one are DT uL909759 7020), which I am currently guessing is a >>9097 chip. >> >>Jay Jaeger >> >>At 11:11 AM 8/26/2003 -0500, Tom Uban wrote: >> >>>Hello, >>> >>>Is there any chance that someone has an Iomec removable platter >>>disk drive? The type that I am looking for uses an IBM 2315 style >>>2.5Mb cartridge, similar to an RK05. >>> >>>I know that this is a pretty futile request, but it never hurts >>>to ask... >>> >>>--tom >> >> >>--- >>Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection >>cube1@charter.net >> --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From cube1 at charter.net Sat Jan 3 08:46:14 2004 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive? In-Reply-To: <200401021739.i02Hdn3A030380@spies.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040103083041.03e0af10@cirithi> THANKS. Several relevant chips are there. 9094, for example, is DTL. They are intermixed. I don't think I buy the statement made earlier by one party implying that these are emitter source At 09:39 AM 1/2/2004 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > > >I don't have a reference for exactly "DT uL909759" > >-- > >I'm in the process of scanning the 1969 f data book and have finished the >logic part. The scan will be up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fairchild/_dataBooks >later today. --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From shirsch at adelphia.net Sat Jan 3 08:59:34 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Jumpering for NEC FD-1165H 8-inch floppy drive In-Reply-To: <004f01c3d0f4$099b5bc0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > > Title says it. Can anyone point me to online data for this elderly > > device? > > No, but I have the straps for teh FD1165-FQ, as used in my media conversion > systems. > I am looking at a "naked" drive right now, with the front towards the > right. I can see a number of straps, e.g. the one called US. This one has a > jumper on the righthand part, and is therefore designated below as US 1 > Are you sure the voltages are on the correct pins ? The "H" model is older and uses a square 6-pin Molex connector (same as all my other 8-inch drives), so I'm sure the voltages are correct. There are some notable differences between the FD1165H and "-FQ" models. After reading the service manual on Al Kossow's site (thanks to all who pointed me there), it seems that the motor is supposed to turn on disk insertion and is not gated by select or head-load signals - at least on the FQ variant. So, why on earth would (2) functional drives just decide not to spin? In the interim, I installed a (mis-matched) pair of one-each Qume and Tandon 1/2-ht. drives in the same box. These work fine, indicating that I'm not dealing with a power-supply or data cabling problem. A little poking with a voltmeter shows that the motors in the NEC units are not receiving power. Once again, the head stepper and head-load are working properly on these units. Another symptom: The NEC units have (2) status LEDs on the front bezel; ready and active. The ready LED is supposed to illuminate when power is applied and a diskette is present. It does not. Anyone have a suggestion for troubleshooting? Steve From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 3 09:45:29 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401031550.KAA28602@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > It doesn't take ANSI color strings ( ESC [ x ; y x ), Which ANSI standard specifies that? X3.64 - at least the version I read - lists CSI-...-x as reserved for private/experimental use. (When people speak of "ANSI colour", then usually mean the ISO 6429 values to the SGR (CSI-...-m) sequence; if there really is such a thing as an ANSI sequence for colour, I'd like to find out more about it.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pkatzmann at online.de Sat Jan 3 05:47:17 2004 From: pkatzmann at online.de (Philipp Katzmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Tandon LT/386 Message-ID: <000c01c3d1ef$57ac3b80$0301a8c0@internetkiste> Hi Chris, I found your posting at classiccmp.org concerning your Tandon LT/386. I happen to own one of these machines too, I saved it from being awayown out and now use it for programming my telephone-system - which in my case works perfectly. The problem with my machine is that I need to get into the BIOS to change the boot sequence to replace DOS 3.01 by DOS 6.22. As I have got no manual I need to know the necessary keystrokes to get to the BIOS. Could you help me out, please? Thanks in advance - Philipp from the Black Forest ---------------------------------------- Dipl.-Ing. Philipp Katzmann Tannenweg 7 D-79677 Sch?nau Tel. +49-7673-932006 Mobil: +49-173-3178397 eMail: pkatzmann@online.de ---------------------------------------- From dogas at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 3 10:16:29 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: HP 5036A References: <000301c3d181$2e75bc00$9865fea9@TOWER> Message-ID: <003901c3d214$f30202c0$e162d6d1@DOMAIN> > Hello, I read in some posts online that you were planning on making > available some info on the HP5036A Microprocessor Trainer Lab. I just > bought one on eBay (without any manual) and I am interested in learning as > much as I can about this. Do you have any materials online? Can I buy > photocopies from you? > > Thank you in advance, > Joe Felix > jfelix@iac.net Hi Joe, I haven't seen any online info yet, but here's some specifics in the memory map: demos & utilities ECHO, 04d7, input switches to output LEDs ANDGT, 04e0, ANDed input switches with outout CONV, 04f8, conveyer belt controller WTM, 053e, well tempered micro tones SORL, 055a, squirrel feedback shift register display ORGAN, 0599, keyboard tone generation ROCT, 05f9, rocket blastoff STW,0662, stopwatch SNAKE, 06c2, snake paddle game BEEP, 0010, beeps BEEP1, 0012, beeps using B for freq BEEP2, 0447, beeps B freq, D duration KIND, 014b, keyboard input to A KPU, 0185, scans keyboard, clears ZERO fl. if key is pushed SDS, 01c8, segment data from 0bfa-0bff sent to display DCD, 01e9, display codes from 0bf0-0bf5 to display STDM, 0018, six char message pointed by DE loaded into obf0-obf5 (for DCD) DELA, 0429, 1 ms. delay DELB, 0430, delay 1.ms x BC reg. pair RS1, 0008, software breakpoint monitor rom, 0000-07ff user program area, 0800-0aff user data storage and stack, 0b00-0bb0 monitor data storage, 0bb1-0bff input port, 2000 output port, 3000 ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 3 09:40:20 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ703 SCSI - TMSCP controller In-Reply-To: <5723678$10731244003ff69430613175.25467637@config6.schlund.de> References: <5723678$10731244003ff69430613175.25467637@config6.schlund.de> Message-ID: <20040103164020.59e5230e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 11:10:01 +0100 wrote: > I have a Dilog DQ703 SCSI - TMSCP controller, and noted that Dilog > also makes a Disc MSCP versions of this. Is it possible to change the > protocol of this controller to Disc-MSCP by changeing the firmware, > and if yes, who knows a source for a copy of this firmware? I am also > looking for a (copy or scan of) the manual and other documentation for > this controller. I have a Dilog 7?? SCSI to MSCP controler. I don't know the exact type out of my head and I can't reach the VAX it is currently build into. I think it is a DQ703A. I can make some pictures of my Dilog next week. I don't have access to a EPROM reader / writer, but I maybe a friend can make a copy... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ggs at shiresoft.com Sat Jan 3 11:49:02 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Bulbs for HP2116 (was Iomec disc drive ?) In-Reply-To: <3FF54E2E.FFDF9231@cs.ubc.ca> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20031231160350.03b643d0@cirithi> <3FF36071.8000003@tiac.net> <3FF54E2E.FFDF9231@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <1073152141.29313.74.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> > (*: a real blinkenlights machine, forget LEDs: over 80 incandescent bulbs :) (the downside being the bulbs are difficult to get).) > The bulbs are available. I got a bunch from Mouser Electronics (www.mouser.com). The bulbs are CM345 (Mouser p/n 606-CM345). They're $0.98 each, but *much* less if you order in quantity. -- TTFN - Guy From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jan 3 12:33:01 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: PDF Scanning problems Message-ID: <001901c3d228$0518c4e0$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hi: I'm trying to scan a Northstar Horizon manual and I'm having a funky page sizing problem. All of the pages are letter (8.5"x11") size. I'm scanning them using a USB-based ScanJet 5200c with an ADF and directly through Adobe Acrobat 5. Here's the problem. Although each page is the same size, the scans are all different sizes. I've tried forcing the scanning software (HP Precision Scan 2.0) to "letter size", which doesn't work, and there doesn't appear to be any way within Acrobat to resize larger. I can crop smaller but not increase the scanned page size. I'm not wed to Acrobat, just the PDF format. If there are better tools out there for the Windows platform that are cheap (as in free or close to it), I'm game. The key is, however, that it will make use of the document feeder. I don't want to scan 100 individual pages into TIFF files and then combine them manually. Any ideas appreciated. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 3 12:39:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: Jumpering for NEC FD-1165H 8-inch floppy drive In-Reply-To: from "Steven N. Hirsch" at Jan 3, 4 09:59:34 am Message-ID: > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > > > From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > > > Title says it. Can anyone point me to online data for this elderly > > > device? > > > > No, but I have the straps for teh FD1165-FQ, as used in my media conversion > > systems. > > I am looking at a "naked" drive right now, with the front towards the > > right. I can see a number of straps, e.g. the one called US. This one has a > > jumper on the righthand part, and is therefore designated below as US 1 > > Are you sure the voltages are on the correct pins ? > > The "H" model is older and uses a square 6-pin Molex connector (same as > all my other 8-inch drives), so I'm sure the voltages are correct. Has this drive ever worked in this system? If not, you might be missing some voltage (like -5V) that's not needed by some drives. Have you actually checked the PSU voltages at the drive with a voltmeter? > > There are some notable differences between the FD1165H and "-FQ" models. > After reading the service manual on Al Kossow's site (thanks to all who > pointed me there), it seems that the motor is supposed to turn on disk > insertion and is not gated by select or head-load signals - at least on > the FQ variant. That is quite normal on 8" drives. The mains-powered models keep the motor running all the time. > > So, why on earth would (2) functional drives just decide not to spin? In > the interim, I installed a (mis-matched) pair of one-each Qume and Tandon > 1/2-ht. drives in the same box. These work fine, indicating that I'm not > dealing with a power-supply or data cabling problem. > > A little poking with a voltmeter shows that the motors in the NEC units > are not receiving power. Once again, the head stepper and head-load are > working properly on these units. Another symptom: The NEC units have (2) > status LEDs on the front bezel; ready and active. The ready LED is > supposed to illuminate when power is applied and a diskette is present. That's often turned on (as is the READY signal on the interface) by detecting valid index pulses. So if the disk is not turning, the drive will not become ready > It does not. > > Anyone have a suggestion for troubleshooting? Yes. Trace back from the motor to find how it's controlled (or if you have a schematic, look there). Find out what signals are needed to turn the motor on (e.g. a disk-inserted sensor) and find out which are missing. Find out where the motor switching circuit gets its power from, and make sure that's present and correct. -tony From patrick at evocative.com Sat Jan 3 13:50:27 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: PDF Scanning problems In-Reply-To: <001901c3d228$0518c4e0$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: > Here's the problem. Although each page is the same size, > the scans are all > different sizes. I've tried forcing the scanning software (HP > Precision Scan > 2.0) to "letter size", which doesn't work, and there doesn't appear to be Rich, I've had similar problems with my HP scanning software, but I was able to stop it by turning off the "automatically crop pages" and "automatically straighten images" selections. There may be similar settings buried in the version you are using. --Patrick From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jan 3 14:47:03 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: New Year's Wishes Message-ID: Hi All, A belated New year to all of you.. may this yeas bring jobs to those in dire need of one, and, in general, may this this year bring peace, both financial as well as global, to all of us. That said.. I'm currently in the Northern California area (this means SanFran-SanJose, I'm in Mountain View), so anyone in for a drink and some food should drop me a line, either email or y phone (650.814.4899) to meet up. I'm kinda planning on spending my birthday (this wednesday) somewhere fun, soo... (yes, Sellam and John, this'd include you ;-) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Jan 3 16:56:39 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:11 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: <200401031550.KAA28602@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > It doesn't take ANSI color strings ( ESC [ x ; y x ), > > Which ANSI standard specifies that? X3.64 - at least the version I > read - lists CSI-...-x as reserved for private/experimental use. (When > people speak of "ANSI colour", then usually mean the ISO 6429 values to > the SGR (CSI-...-m) sequence; if there really is such a thing as an > ANSI sequence for colour, I'd like to find out more about it.) That should be ESC [ x ; y m I don't know what standard it is/isn't, but it's used in every "color VT-100" terminal emulation I know of... the ANSI.SYS for MS-DOS, and Linux's "linux" terminal type, to name two of them. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jan 3 17:54:08 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: DECserver 90L+ for trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Are these ones that plug into the DEChub90 chassis, or the standalone ones ? --f On Thu, 1 Jan 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > As faithful readers of The List will remember - I have three > DECserver 90L+ ethernet terminal servers - which I tried very hard to make > work like RS232 muxes - alas; I failed. > > So I would like to offer two of them in trade for a pair of RS232 mux > boxen having 4 ports minimum, up to 8 or so - don't need more that 4 or 5 > ports, but units having more are good too... and using some kind of > copper between them (no fiber units - I have copper everywhere in the > house, or soon will, but I'm too retro to be pulling glass around). > > I do think I'll hang on to one of them to try and use in my upcoming > multi-purpose server scheme. > > These seem to work nicely, they were taken out of service - they have > the power supplies and a four lengths of real Dec cable, along with 3 or > four BNC Tees. No terminators, unfortunately... > > I'd like to do a straight swap - I'll ship FedEx anywhere in the world - > lemme know what you might have. > > Cheers and let's all have a Nicer 04 - hmmm? > > John > > > -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 3 18:14:07 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: New Year's Wishes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A belated New year to all of you.. may this yeas bring jobs to > those in dire need of one, and, in general, may this this year > bring peace, both financial as well as global, to all of us. That'll be me then :) Happy stuff all round, Fred! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 3 18:15:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: DECserver 90L+ for trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 03 January 2004 23:54 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: DECserver 90L+ for trade > > > John, > > Are these ones that plug into the DEChub90 chassis, or the > standalone ones ? > It doesn't matter - standalone ones can be plugged into DEChubs just by removing the PSU/management chassis. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 3 18:09:38 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401040026.TAA29953@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> It doesn't take ANSI color strings ( ESC [ x ; y x ), >> [???] (When people speak of "ANSI colour", then usually mean the >> ISO 6429 values to the SGR (CSI-...-m) sequence; if there really is >> such a thing as an ANSI sequence for colour, I'd like to find out >> more about it.) > That should be ESC [ x ; y m > I don't know what standard it is/isn't, CSI-...-m (ESC-[ is the 7-bit version of CSI) is specified in ANSI X3.64 (which builds on X3.41). However, X3.64 specifies only parameter values 0 through 7 and 10 through 20, at least in the revision I read. Parameter values 8, 30..37, and 40..47 (the latter two ranges specifying colours) are, apparently, specified by ISO 6429, though I don't know where I found that; I don't know whether ANSI has picked them up nor, if so, under what standard or revision. > but it's used in every "color VT-100" terminal emulation I know of... > the ANSI.SYS for MS-DOS, and Linux's "linux" terminal type, to name > two of them. Oh, certainly. It's just that calling it ANSI is, as far as I know, a misnomer; the SGR sequence (CSI-...-m) is ANSI, but not the colour-selecting parameter values. (Such things usually, actually, implement both less and more than X3.64, even ignoring the SGR parameter issue. They usually do some things that VT-100s do that aren't specified in X3.64, like ESC-[-...-r (CSI-...-p through CSI-...-~ are reserved for private use by X3.64) and don't do a lot of things X3.64 does specify (like DAQ, GSM/GSS, HTJ, JFY, SL...there is an awful lot in X3.64 that I've never actually seen implemented). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jan 3 19:04:36 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: DECserver 90L+ for trade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > John, > > Are these ones that plug into the DEChub90 chassis, or the > standalone ones ? Yes they are standalone - have (ridiculously large) power brick. They do have a removable cover on the back that reveals a euro-connector. The BNC is on the top of the case, MMJs (8) on the front. Cheerz John From paul at frixxon.co.uk Sat Jan 3 19:02:46 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: <200401040026.TAA29953@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401040026.TAA29953@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3FF76636.5080107@frixxon.co.uk> der Mouse wrote: > CSI-...-m (ESC-[ is the 7-bit version of CSI) is specified in ANSI > X3.64 (which builds on X3.41). However, X3.64 specifies only parameter > values 0 through 7 and 10 through 20, at least in the revision I read. ANSI X3.64 is obsolete; there will not be any further revisions. > Parameter values 8, 30..37, and 40..47 (the latter two ranges > specifying colours) are, apparently, specified by ISO 6429 ISO 6429 and ECMA 48 are almost identical, and ECMA 48 is free. http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-048.htm -- Paul From NEMOSTEVE at aol.com Sat Jan 3 16:17:23 2004 From: NEMOSTEVE at aol.com (NEMOSTEVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: AT&T Gemini Electronic Blackboard Message-ID: <7b.1ffaa1ec.2d289973@aol.com> Afternoon, I have a working AT&T Gemini Electronic Blackboard system. Are you still looking? I'm in New Jersey - home of all of MaBell. Any interest? Thanks, Steve From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 3 19:38:18 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: VT340 information In-Reply-To: <3FF76636.5080107@frixxon.co.uk> References: <200401040026.TAA29953@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3FF76636.5080107@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: <200401040139.UAA00266@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> X3.64 specifies only parameter values 0 through 7 and 10 through 20, >> at least in the revision I read. > ANSI X3.64 is obsolete; there will not be any further revisions. Okay...but I'm not sure whether the last rev is the one I read; it was long ago, and what I got may not even have been the then-latest rev. >> ISO 6429 > ISO 6429 and ECMA 48 are almost identical, and ECMA 48 is free. > http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-048.htm Thank you. Saved. der Mouse From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jan 3 20:25:31 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: HP 4951C analyzer (+ 18197A module) Message-ID: Hi all, Might be offtopic, dunno, but does anyone know this thing? We're looking at its floppy drive (which *seems* to be standard) but cant read anything off its disks... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From shirsch at adelphia.net Sun Jan 4 09:47:35 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Jumpering for NEC FD-1165H 8-inch floppy drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > The "H" model is older and uses a square 6-pin Molex connector (same as > > all my other 8-inch drives), so I'm sure the voltages are correct. > > Has this drive ever worked in this system? If not, you might be missing > some voltage (like -5V) that's not needed by some drives. Have you > actually checked the PSU voltages at the drive with a voltmeter? To my knowledge, these drives don't require -5V but, yes, I did check at the logic board itself. > > Anyone have a suggestion for troubleshooting? > > Yes. Trace back from the motor to find how it's controlled (or if you > have a schematic, look there). Find out what signals are needed to turn > the motor on (e.g. a disk-inserted sensor) and find out which are > missing. Find out where the motor switching circuit gets its power from, > and make sure that's present and correct. I'll take a deep breath and start poking through the circuit. Thanks for the pointers! Steve From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 4 11:01:07 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive? References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040103083041.03e0af10@cirithi> Message-ID: <3FF846D3.80609@tiac.net> Your in much better shape with a DTL part than if it were CTL! I'm glad to be wrong on this one. FYI, 2114's use CTL for the vast majority of their logic, just like the 2116's. The '759' segment of the P/N sure looked like a common CTL part (common to old HP's anyway). Jay Jaeger wrote: > THANKS. Several relevant chips are there. 9094, for example, is > DTL. They are intermixed. I don't think I buy the statement made > earlier by one party implying that these are emitter source > > At 09:39 AM 1/2/2004 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > >> > >> I don't have a reference for exactly "DT uL909759" >> >> -- >> >> I'm in the process of scanning the 1969 f data book and have finished >> the >> logic part. The scan will be up at >> www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fairchild/_dataBooks >> later today. > > > --- > Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection > cube1@charter.net > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 4 20:58:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. Message-ID: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I'm finally starting to look at my options for putting together some of my DEC gear into complete refurbed systems. I was thinking of using an RA81 drive with my 11/45. However, best as I can eyeball it, the RA81 drive won't fit into the H960 rack depth-wise (at least, with a proper back door on it like mine has - and I want it to be able to close). The RA81 drives I have are in a tall white corp cabinet, except two are in another H960 rack (which has no back door). From looking at those two, I don't think a back door (on my other 960 rack) would close (the two RA81's in the current 960 without the back door looks like - ummm an amateur job). Can someone confirm or deny, before I start going to the grief of racking heavy drives & such? Was also wrestling with the idea of whether to put an 11/34 into a mid-height corp cab, or an H960. Which is more authentic, or are they both? I don't recall seeing 34's in white corp cabs. If I did that, it would probably use RL02's. I forget the disk requirements for a reasonable RT11/TSX+ system, I think two RL02's may be cutting it close. Any advice? Regards, Jay West From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 4 21:31:41 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. In-Reply-To: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: >probably use RL02's. I forget the disk requirements for a reasonable >RT11/TSX+ system, I think two RL02's may be cutting it close. Any advice? Two RL02's is plenty big for RT-11 & TSX+, you can fit both on one RL02, and have the other RL02 for something else. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cube1 at charter.net Sun Jan 4 21:47:24 2004 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. In-Reply-To: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040104214341.036b41f8@cirithi> As you point out, all the 11/34 photos I have seen were in H960's. Of the UNIBUS machines, I recall only the 11/60 in a "corporate cabinet", though I suppose other later machines may have been in them as well. RT-11 (without TSX) would fit comfortably on an RK05. I can't imagine you'd need more than an RL02 even with TSX+. Jay Jaeger At 08:58 PM 1/4/2004 -0600, Jay West wrote: >I'm finally starting to look at my options for putting together some of my >DEC gear into complete refurbed systems. I was thinking of using an RA81 >drive with my 11/45. However, best as I can eyeball it, the RA81 drive won't >fit into the H960 rack depth-wise (at least, with a proper back door on it >like mine has - and I want it to be able to close). The RA81 drives I have >are in a tall white corp cabinet, except two are in another H960 rack (which >has no back door). From looking at those two, I don't think a back door (on >my other 960 rack) would close (the two RA81's in the current 960 without >the back door looks like - ummm an amateur job). > >Can someone confirm or deny, before I start going to the grief of racking >heavy drives & such? > >Was also wrestling with the idea of whether to put an 11/34 into a >mid-height corp cab, or an H960. Which is more authentic, or are they both? >I don't recall seeing 34's in white corp cabs. If I did that, it would >probably use RL02's. I forget the disk requirements for a reasonable >RT11/TSX+ system, I think two RL02's may be cutting it close. Any advice? > >Regards, > >Jay West --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From cube1 at charter.net Sun Jan 4 21:42:47 2004 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive? In-Reply-To: <3FF846D3.80609@tiac.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040103083041.03e0af10@cirithi> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040104213209.033f8768@cirithi> Actually, this stuff I am working on (controller and interface) wasn't actually made by HP, it was made by IOMEC (except for the two interface cards in the CPU box itself). Also, hate to contradict folks, but the HP 2114B itself is pretty much all TTL. A quick look thru the card drawings of the CPU / memory etc. revealed only 3 CTL chips and 1 DTL chip -- the rest is either 7400 series TTL or discrete transistors. I may have missed a couple, but it is almost all TTL (and I had to make some repairs in memory addressing when I first got it). Perhaps the HP2114A was different? The DTL already tripped me up once. I had a J/K flip flop with both Q and -Q low. Turns out -Q was wired with the output of another gate as an apparent ECO (wasn't on the schematic). Sigh. At least with TTL you have the clue of the part being open-collector to help you realize someone did that. 8^) Jay At 12:01 PM 1/4/2004 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: >Your in much better shape with a DTL part than if it were CTL! > >I'm glad to be wrong on this one. FYI, 2114's use CTL for the vast >majority of their logic, just like the 2116's. > >The '759' segment of the P/N sure looked like a common CTL part (common to >old HP's anyway). > >Jay Jaeger wrote: > >>THANKS. Several relevant chips are there. 9094, for example, is >>DTL. They are intermixed. I don't think I buy the statement made >>earlier by one party implying that these are emitter source >> >>At 09:39 AM 1/2/2004 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: >> >>> > >>>I don't have a reference for exactly "DT uL909759" >>> >>>-- >>> >>>I'm in the process of scanning the 1969 f data book and have finished the >>>logic part. The scan will be up at >>>www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fairchild/_dataBooks >>>later today. >> >> >>--- >>Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection >>cube1@charter.net >> >> > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Jan 4 21:41:51 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. References: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FF8DCFF.33CC984A@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > [Snip] > Can someone confirm or deny, before I start going to the grief of racking > heavy drives & such? Jerome Fine replies: Sorry, I don't use any Unibus hardware - TOO HEAVY!! > Was also wrestling with the idea of whether to put an 11/34 into a > mid-height corp cab, or an H960. Which is more authentic, or are they both? > I don't recall seeing 34's in white corp cabs. If I did that, it would > probably use RL02's. I forget the disk requirements for a reasonable > RT11/TSX+ system, I think two RL02's may be cutting it close. Any advice? It depends on what you are doing. Most production RT-11 / TSX-PLUS systems will be comfortable with one RL02, but at least a few will require MUCH more. Every system has its own requirements. MUCH more important is how you are going to get files to / from the RL02 media and at what speed. Backup is also important. So if you are an RL02 ONLY system, then you will want a second RL02 to make backup copies. My preference these days is a SCSI based system. While the host adapters are still high in price, once you have one, the cost of a SCSI drive is very low. In my case with a Qbus system, I use a Sony SMO S-501 drive as both an interchange media and a backup media. This eliminates the need for ethernet. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 4 21:50:55 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040104214341.036b41f8@cirithi> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040104214341.036b41f8@cirithi> Message-ID: I think what Jay West means by the "Corporate Cabinet" are the racks that are about 4' foot high. Systems that were in these racks include the /44, /84, and /94. I honestly can't comment on what would be typical for a /34. Wasn't the /60 in a dual-width rack along the lines of a VAX-11/750? Zane >As you point out, all the 11/34 photos I have seen were in H960's. Of the UNIBUS machines, I recall only the 11/60 in a "corporate cabinet", though I suppose other later machines may have been in them as well. > >RT-11 (without TSX) would fit comfortably on an RK05. I can't imagine you'd need more than an RL02 even with TSX+. > >Jay Jaeger > >At 08:58 PM 1/4/2004 -0600, Jay West wrote: >>I'm finally starting to look at my options for putting together some of my >>DEC gear into complete refurbed systems. I was thinking of using an RA81 >>drive with my 11/45. However, best as I can eyeball it, the RA81 drive won't >>fit into the H960 rack depth-wise (at least, with a proper back door on it >>like mine has - and I want it to be able to close). The RA81 drives I have >>are in a tall white corp cabinet, except two are in another H960 rack (which >>has no back door). From looking at those two, I don't think a back door (on >>my other 960 rack) would close (the two RA81's in the current 960 without >>the back door looks like - ummm an amateur job). >> >>Can someone confirm or deny, before I start going to the grief of racking >>heavy drives & such? >> >>Was also wrestling with the idea of whether to put an 11/34 into a >>mid-height corp cab, or an H960. Which is more authentic, or are they both? >>I don't recall seeing 34's in white corp cabs. If I did that, it would >>probably use RL02's. I forget the disk requirements for a reasonable >>RT11/TSX+ system, I think two RL02's may be cutting it close. Any advice? >> >>Regards, >> >>Jay West > >--- >Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection >cube1@charter.net -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 4 22:45:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040104213209.033f8768@cirithi> from "Jay Jaeger" at Jan 4, 4 09:42:47 pm Message-ID: > The DTL already tripped me up once. I had a J/K flip flop with both Q and > -Q low. Turns out -Q was wired with the output of another gate as an > apparent ECO (wasn't on the schematic). Sigh. At least with TTL you have > the clue of the part being open-collector to help you realize someone did > that. 8^) Years ago I was working on a thing called a 'Solatron DTU', which was basically a data logger add-on for a DVM (it had a 20 channel input multiplexer, a real time clock, and output boards for a Facit 4070 punch and an ASR33 IIRC). Anyway, it wa all DTL inside. I found a (genuinely) dead JK flip-flop. Found the pinouts from the schematics (which fortunately I have), and thought I'd found a pin-compatible TTL replacement. Popped it in, and the darn thing still didn't work. No, it wasn't a wire-AND connection... It turns out that the DTL and TTL chips have the same pinout _except_ that Q and Q/ are swapped round, and that was easy to miss when looking at the databooks..... -tony From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 4 23:20:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin] Message-ID: <1073279429.6185.21.camel@fiche.home.wps.com> Not news, others on this list may have seen... But I believe this/was is the last TTL chip (eg. not LS, S, etc) on the market. -----Forwarded Message----- From: info.service@digikey.com To: TOMJ@wps.com Subject: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin Date: 17 Dec 2003 12:40:49 -0600 You have purchased the following part number(s) from Digi-Key within the last two years. The manufacturer has announced this part(s) will become obsolete. FAIRCHILD SEMICONDUCTOR Description: IC BUFFER HEX OPEN OUT 14-DIP Manufacturer Part No: DM7407N Digi-Key Part No: DM7407N-ND Your Most Recent P.O. No: For more information on possible substitutes, please click on this link http://dkc1.digikey.com/scripts/us/obs_part.cgi?pn=DM7407N-ND This email was sent to TOMJ@WPS.COM. Thank you for purchasing these products from Digi-Key. We look forward to serving you in the future. Regards, Digi-Key Information Services Team From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jan 4 16:14:09 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine? Message-ID: <20040104221409.GA21079@bos7.spole.gov> I'm trying to track down a game I once saw in the late 1970s... my memory of it is that it's an underwater game, where you move your sub from left to right (side view of the world), and dodge obstacles like seaweed and marine life. There's a distinct possibility that this was on an APF Imagination Machine. I do remember it was a brightly-colored game, and was *not* on something common like an Apple ][. I was into PETs, so seeing a game of this color and visual complexity was quite stunning at the time. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Is there a good place to see screen shots of APF games? Thanks, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 04-Jan-2004 22:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.8 F (-28.2 C) Windchill -15.3 F (-26.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 2.9 kts Grid 078 Barometer 687 mb (10365 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Mon Jan 5 03:33:57 2004 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin] References: <1073279429.6185.21.camel@fiche.home.wps.com> Message-ID: <3FF92F86.91F192DF@cs.ubc.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > > Not news, others on this list may have seen... > > But I believe this/was is the last TTL chip (eg. not LS, S, etc) on the > market. > > -----Forwarded Message----- > > From: info.service@digikey.com > To: TOMJ@wps.com > Subject: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin > Date: 17 Dec 2003 12:40:49 -0600 > > You have purchased the following part number(s) from Digi-Key within the last two years. > The manufacturer has announced this part(s) will become obsolete. > > FAIRCHILD SEMICONDUCTOR > Description: IC BUFFER HEX OPEN OUT 14-DIP > Manufacturer Part No: DM7407N > Digi-Key Part No: DM7407N-ND Well, that dovetails with what I ran across while going through catalogs for the DTL/CTL conversation: In a Texas Instruments catalog from 1965, under "Solid Circuit Semiconductor Networks": NEW! Series 54 TTL - Digital SN5400 - Quadruple 2-input Positive NAND Gate ... ... along with the 5410, 5420, 5430, 5450, 5460 and 5470, the first seven devices of the 5400/7400 series. And just for amusement, from the same catalog, the logic family named after the missile whose guidance system it was designed for: MINUTEMAN SERIES DTL SN337A, SN341A, etc. (not compatible with standard DTL) From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Mon Jan 5 03:37:54 2004 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (Doug Peksa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' Message-ID: 1) ICL Perq T2 with A3 Landscape monitor and running FLEX 2) Rack mount (bare) DECServer 550 (PDP11 inside (if you didn't know)) 3) A PDP11/04 (March 1976) with 128Kb, 2 x RK05, 2 x RX02 1) and 2) were last used in 2002 and were then in working order 3) was last used in 2000. Then it had (and still has) a broken RK11D. I have an untested replacement RK11C. Weighs about 0.25 tonne and resides in a standard DEC 6' cabinet. Also a current loop LA36 console I am based in the Cardiff area, but 3) will have to be collected from about 20 miles north of Cardiff. Deadline - end February. Anyone interested? Note that I read cctalk in digest mode and can get a few days behind. Doug From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 5 05:58:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine? In-Reply-To: <20040104221409.GA21079@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm trying to track down a game I once saw in the late 1970s... my memory > of it is that it's an underwater game, where you move your sub from left > to right (side view of the world), and dodge obstacles like seaweed and > marine life. > > There's a distinct possibility that this was on an APF Imagination Machine. > I do remember it was a brightly-colored game, and was *not* on something > common like an Apple ][. I was into PETs, so seeing a game of this color > and visual complexity was quite stunning at the time. Might it have been on an Intercolor computer? There were two models: a mid-to-late-70s model and a late-70s to early-80s model. Imagination Machines are hard to come by, but the APF M1000 video game system can be found occasional on eBay. I've got a couple myself. Here's a games list for the M1000: http://www.fatmangames.com/games/browsegamelist.asp?SystemID=24 I'm not sure how thorough this is supposed to be. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From felten at vaxnet.de Mon Jan 5 07:58:01 2004 From: felten at vaxnet.de (felten@vaxnet.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Qbus KDA50 led error codes Message-ID: <5723678$10733103703ff96aa2b6e601.97298018@config17.schlund.de> Hello, Does anyone know what this error code means? 1 1 1 1 -------------M7164-1-2-4-8--------------- 0 0 0 1 -------------M7165-1-2-4-8--------------- it shows immediatly this code, no other combination after power up. The Users Guide does not mention it. I've remove W2 and W3 on both modules (for Q22/CD slots). The qbus backplane only contains the uVAX II processor board and the kda50. Any idea what I could test on the module? I tried >>> e 172150 (read IP register) but it's invalid. Lothar From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 5 08:09:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: another request for DEC memory board settings Message-ID: <011a01c3d395$868d4960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I've asked this from time to time, and googled many times, but can't find the info. Does anyone have any documentation for a unibus "Standard Memories" brand board designated "MM-144" or maybe "MM-114"? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 09:16:46 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin] In-Reply-To: <1073279429.6185.21.camel@fiche.home.wps.com> Message-ID: <20040105151646.41088.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Well maybe Fairchild is not making them but others are, standard TTL production is still active according to the TI website, see http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/sn7400.html and the 7407 http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/sn7407.html --- Tom Jennings wrote: > Not news, others on this list may have seen... > > But I believe this/was is the last TTL chip (eg. not > LS, S, etc) on the > market. > > > -----Forwarded Message----- > > From: info.service@digikey.com > To: TOMJ@wps.com > Subject: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin > Date: 17 Dec 2003 12:40:49 -0600 > > > You have purchased the following part number(s) from > Digi-Key within the last two years. > The manufacturer has announced this part(s) will > become obsolete. > > FAIRCHILD SEMICONDUCTOR > Description: IC BUFFER HEX OPEN OUT 14-DIP > Manufacturer Part No: DM7407N > > Digi-Key Part No: DM7407N-ND > Your Most Recent P.O. No: > > For more information on possible substitutes, please > click on this link > http://dkc1.digikey.com/scripts/us/obs_part.cgi?pn=DM7407N-ND > > > > This email was sent to TOMJ@WPS.COM. > > Thank you for purchasing these products from > Digi-Key. We look forward to serving you in the > future. > > Regards, > > Digi-Key Information Services Team > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 From jpdavis at gorge.net Mon Jan 5 10:53:38 2004 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine? In-Reply-To: <20040104221409.GA21079@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040104221409.GA21079@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <3FF99692.7060007@gorge.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >I'm trying to track down a game I once saw in the late 1970s... my memory >of it is that it's an underwater game, where you move your sub from left >to right (side view of the world), and dodge obstacles like seaweed and >marine life. > >There's a distinct possibility that this was on an APF Imagination Machine. >I do remember it was a brightly-colored game, and was *not* on something >common like an Apple ][. I was into PETs, so seeing a game of this color >and visual complexity was quite stunning at the time. > >Does this ring any bells with anyone? Is there a good place to see >screen shots of APF games? > >Thanks, > >-ethan > > > The atari 800 had a game like you describe. I'm sure I still have it, but I can't give you name at the moment. It was a side scroller with lots of tricky passages, monsters and very colorful. Jim Davis. From jpdavis at gorge.net Mon Jan 5 10:56:57 2004 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine? Cold There? In-Reply-To: <20040104221409.GA21079@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040104221409.GA21079@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <3FF99759.9050907@gorge.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: The daytime temp on the Oregon/Washington border is currently 4 Deg. F, Just like summer there? ;-) Jim Davis. From RMay635703 at aol.com Mon Jan 5 11:16:08 2004 From: RMay635703 at aol.com (RMay635703@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: TI 960 / 990 FD1000 8" disk array 3.2mb Message-ID: <18f.241ed26c.2d2af5d8@aol.com> I emailed you last year, I ended up putting it on auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2778223896 If anyone is interested place a bid Cheers Ryan May From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jan 5 12:01:29 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. In-Reply-To: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: Jay, > my other 960 rack) would close (the two RA81's in the current 960 without > the back door looks like - ummm an amateur job). Not only do they not fit, they also die quickly; try to locate some RA9x or RA7x drives instead. > Was also wrestling with the idea of whether to put an 11/34 into a > mid-height corp cab, or an H960. Which is more authentic, or are they both? H960. Corp cabs were mostly done with 11/60s and the smaller systems, which were often found in lab environments. Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From silviorf at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 12:36:45 2004 From: silviorf at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Silvio=20Finotti?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: <200401041801.i04I03ib004895@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040105183645.80294.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> Just to say that I've tried the soft disk2fdi to put my old apple II disks into PC, and, it WORKS !!!! BTW: the soft works too with C64, amiga, and other disks too.... fantastic !!! Silvio Yahoo! Mail - 6MB, anti-spam e antiv?rus gratuito. Crie sua conta agora: http://mail.yahoo.com.br From fire at dls.net Mon Jan 5 13:24:28 2004 From: fire at dls.net (fire@dls.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question Message-ID: <20040105192428.E3C81968512@demolition.dls.net> I wanted to revive my MicroVax II (BA23 cabinet I think) and add RZ74 (4GB drive) to it. I am writing number from memory, perhaps I have made mistakes. Will this card on Ebay do the trick? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2775848822&category=1247&rd=1 I believe this might be the easiest way to get SCSI support on my machine, but perhaps this card is incompatible, or drive is too big? I do not have a lot of experience with VMS but want to play around some on this smaller somewhat old equipment.' Bradley Slavik From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Jan 5 14:07:47 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Looking for a copy of EK-KA630-UG Message-ID: <0401052007.AA00744@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Hello folks, Would there happen to be some kind soul out there with a copy of DEC manual EK-KA630-UG willing to make a xerox copy of it for me? I will reimburse you for the cost of xeroxing, mailing, and your time, and even reward you extra for your service to humanity. It's the KA630 (MicroVAX II) CPU user's guide, actually a technical manual as it was created back in the days when user's guides contained real information. TIA, MS From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jan 5 14:12:41 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Looking for a copy of EK-KA630-UG In-Reply-To: <0401052007.AA00744@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401052007.AA00744@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200401052015.PAA11165@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Would there happen to be some kind soul out there with a copy of DEC > manual EK-KA630-UG willing to make a xerox copy of it for me? I'd actually like to get hold of a copy myself. If someone can get me hardcopy I will volunteer to scan it for anyone who wants softcopy. (I can't OCR it, maybe, but I can scan it. :) Like Michael, I'd be willing to pay reasonable copying, postage, and a bit extra for time for hardcopy. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Jan 5 14:26:18 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Looking for a copy of EK-KA630-UG Message-ID: <0401052026.AA00781@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > I'd actually like to get hold of a copy myself. If someone can get me > hardcopy I will volunteer to scan it for anyone who wants softcopy. Given a hard copy, I would also be willing to produce a soft one. I don't know of a scanner that I can attach to my MicroVAX, so I can't scan, but I would be willing to retype the text and redraw the diagrams etc. in PostScript vector graphics. MS From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 5 14:37:40 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: <20040105183645.80294.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040105183645.80294.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FF9CB14.4010802@atarimuseum.com> Link please!!!!! I have a stack of A2's and C64's disks I'd love to read in on my PC... Curt Silvio Finotti wrote: >Just to say that I've tried the soft disk2fdi to put >my old apple II disks into PC, and, it WORKS !!!! > >BTW: the soft works too with C64, amiga, and other >disks too.... fantastic !!! > >Silvio > >Yahoo! Mail - 6MB, anti-spam e antiv?rus gratuito. Crie sua conta agora: >http://mail.yahoo.com.br > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 5 14:48:10 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: <20040105183645.80294.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040105183645.80294.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040105124521.H82405@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, [iso-8859-1] Silvio Finotti wrote: > Just to say that I've tried the soft disk2fdi to put > my old apple II disks into PC, and, it WORKS !!!! > BTW: the soft works too with C64, amiga, and other > disks too.... fantastic !!! That is GREAT NEWS! I'll have to try it again, maybe with different drives. It is astonishing what can be accomplished if you don't already know that something is "impossible"! (The Wily E. Coyote principle of software development) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jan 5 15:25:45 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question References: <20040105192428.E3C81968512@demolition.dls.net> Message-ID: <3FF9D659.595FBC22@compsys.to> >fire@dls.net wrote: > I wanted to revive my MicroVax II (BA23 cabinet I think) and add > RZ74 (4GB drive) to it. I am writing number from memory, perhaps > I have made mistakes. Will this card on Ebay do the trick? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2775848822&category=1247&rd=1 > I believe this might be the easiest way to get SCSI support > on my machine, but perhaps this card is incompatible, or > drive is too big? > I do not have a lot of experience with VMS but want to play > around some on this smaller somewhat old equipment.' > Bradley Slavik Jerome Fine replies: This card is NOT designed for the BA23 box. Rather it looks like the type that would be used with a BA213 box. But, the price seems correct (if it works) if you are able to take off the handles and add the see needed for the 1/2" spacing on a BA23 box. Perhaps someone else can comment if it is a true SCSI host adapter for a Qbus system that will handle SCSI drives of the 4 GByte flavour? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 5 15:26:30 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! References: <20040105183645.80294.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> <3FF9CB14.4010802@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <3FF9D686.F04702F7@rain.org> A quick check on Google came up with http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi as the Homepage for the software. A trial version is available there. Looks very interesting and includes the instructions to modify the HD floppy drives to read the 1541 disks. "This version can still read the following disks to standard sector-dumped disk image files ..." Curt Vendel wrote: > > Link please!!!!! I have a stack of A2's and C64's disks I'd love to > read in on my PC... > > Curt > > Silvio Finotti wrote: > > >Just to say that I've tried the soft disk2fdi to put > >my old apple II disks into PC, and, it WORKS !!!! > > > >BTW: the soft works too with C64, amiga, and other > >disks too.... fantastic !!! > > > >Silvio > > > >Yahoo! Mail - 6MB, anti-spam e antiv?rus gratuito. Crie sua conta agora: > >http://mail.yahoo.com.br > > > > > > > > -- > > Curt Vendel & Karl Morris > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Atari Museum > http://www.atarimuseum.com > > The Atari Explorer > http://www.atari-explorer.com From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jan 5 15:37:47 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' References: Message-ID: <3FF9D92B.508EB93A@compsys.to> >Doug Peksa wrote: > 3) A PDP11/04 (March 1976) with 128Kb, 2 x RK05, 2 x RX02 Jerome Fine replies: Do you happen to have any old RT-11 distributions on any RK05 or RX02 media. I would like to share on a CD as many old RT-11 distributions as possible. The RT-11 distributions for V5.0x are available as well as is V4.00 of RT-11. But I would very much appreciate having RK05 distributions for V4.00C and for V2x and V3x of RT-11. I have a number of RX02 distributions available for V2x and V3x, but that means having multiple media which is MUCH less convenient. Anything available? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From kdavis at ndx.net Mon Jan 5 15:41:24 2004 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Spaceflight and Computers (geek porn) Message-ID: Mars rover made me curious about the computers used in older missions. Found this cool link giving a detailed history: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/contents.html Kirk From mike at shawnuff.net Mon Jan 5 15:56:15 2004 From: mike at shawnuff.net (Mike Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Spaceflight and Computers (geek porn) Message-ID: <200401052156.i05LuFST034459@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Has anyone seen any specs on what the current programs are using? Someone said that the current mars rover was running Darwin on a PowerPC...which I kind of doubt. Sounds like an urban legend that evolved from that picture of the powerbooks in mission control. -Mike On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:41:24 -0800 Kirk Davis wrote: > >Mars rover made me curious about the computers used in older >missions. Found this cool link giving a detailed history: > >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/contents.html > >Kirk > > > From phufnagel at snet.net Mon Jan 5 15:25:34 2004 From: phufnagel at snet.net (phufnagel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: MVII's for the taking... Message-ID: <3FF9D64E.7090602@snet.net> I have two MVII's in a dec rack (5' high?), if anyone is interested. Too big to ship, but if anyone in the northeast (I'm in CT) wants to give them a good home, I can load it in my truck and bring them to you. Unsure of memory, I think one has a SCSI controller in it, plus I have some other boards around I'll throw in with the deal. Really would rather get rid of the whole thing, rack and all, rather than part it out. Email me if you are interested. -- Pete From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 5 16:08:39 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question References: <20040105192428.E3C81968512@demolition.dls.net> <3FF9D659.595FBC22@compsys.to> Message-ID: <06d301c3d3d8$79b668a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> A good question to ask is if the QBus in a BA23/uVII is electrically the same as the one in the BA213/uVIII. If it is then I'd say go and get the card, even with the appendages on it. John A. From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 5 16:17:01 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: Spaceflight and Computers (geek porn) In-Reply-To: <200401052156.i05LuFST034459@mailserver1.hushmail.com> References: <200401052156.i05LuFST034459@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <200401051717.01183.jcwren@jcwren.com> No, it's running vxWorks on a RAD6000. < http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/18_9/telecom-it-infrastructure/21333-1.html > Expensive little puppies, too. --jc On Monday 05 January 2004 16:56 pm, Mike Shaw wrote: > Has anyone seen any specs on what the current programs are using? Someone > said that the current mars rover was running Darwin on a PowerPC...which > I kind of doubt. Sounds like an urban legend that evolved from that > picture of the powerbooks in mission control. > > -Mike > > On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:41:24 -0800 Kirk Davis wrote: > >Mars rover made me curious about the computers used in older > >missions. Found this cool link giving a detailed history: > > > >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/contents.html > > > >Kirk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 5 16:29:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: from "Doug Peksa" at Jan 5, 4 09:37:54 am Message-ID: > > 1) ICL Perq T2 with A3 Landscape monitor and running FLEX For %deity's sake, please could somebody rescue that!. It's an interesting machine (and I've never seen PERQ FLEX, which I believe has nothing to do with the 6800/6809 OS). No, I can't house it, I've already got 4 PERQs (one of each flavour). -tony From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jan 5 17:29:09 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:12 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question Message-ID: <040105182909.2376d@splab.cas.neu.edu> well, I have the microvax III cpu in my ba123, because I got tired of the slow speed of the mvax II. I had to diddle with systartup, as it could not figure out my configuration, but it has been running for nearly 10 years that way. The mvax III cpu had the S handles, i took them off. I saw dialog on size limitations for hard drives on mvax II, perhaps only 2 gb possible? Anyway, I also use an Emulex QD01 to run a SCSI rewriteable optical drive, so there are other means of getting SCSI. Joe Heck From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Mon Jan 5 16:50:32 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF9EA38.2000500@ntlworld.com> Tony Duell wrote: >>1) ICL Perq T2 with A3 Landscape monitor and running FLEX >> >> > >For %deity's sake, please could somebody rescue that!. It's an >interesting machine (and I've never seen PERQ FLEX, which I believe has >nothing to do with the 6800/6809 OS). > >No, I can't house it, I've already got 4 PERQs (one of each flavour). > >-tony > > > I already sent an email this morning, hopefully I was first. Dan From mike at shawnuff.net Mon Jan 5 16:44:17 2004 From: mike at shawnuff.net (Mike Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: Spaceflight and Computers (geek porn) Message-ID: <200401052244.i05MiIk2038772@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Apparently it is 'kinda' running on a powerpc, as the RAD6000 is a derivative: http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/story/0,10801, 88734,00.html http://www.iews.na.baesystems.com/space/rad6000/rad6000.html -Mike On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 14:17:01 -0800 "J.C. Wren" wrote: >No, it's running vxWorks on a RAD6000. > >< >http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/18_9/telecom-it-infrastructure/21333- >1.html >> > >Expensive little puppies, too. > > --jc > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 5 17:02:53 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: <20040105124521.H82405@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: Me, I want to know how they make an FM/MFM drive read a GCR disk... g. On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, [iso-8859-1] Silvio Finotti wrote: > > Just to say that I've tried the soft disk2fdi to put > > my old apple II disks into PC, and, it WORKS !!!! > > BTW: the soft works too with C64, amiga, and other > > disks too.... fantastic !!! > > That is GREAT NEWS! > I'll have to try it again, maybe with different drives. > > It is astonishing what can be accomplished if you don't already know that > something is "impossible"! (The Wily E. Coyote principle of software > development) > > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 5 17:00:24 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: <3FF9EA38.2000500@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Williams > Sent: 05 January 2004 22:51 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: 'Free to good home' > > I already sent an email this morning, hopefully I was first. > I'd love a machine like that but the 'Diff is too far away from here :-/ Having said that I'm hopefully rescuing a MicroVAX I (not II) from Leicestershire next week or so..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 5 17:15:15 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: Gene Buckle "Re: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!!" (Jan 5, 15:02) References: Message-ID: <10401052315.ZM24449@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 15:02, Gene Buckle wrote: > Me, I want to know how they make an FM/MFM drive read a GCR disk... It's not a drive issue, it's a controller issue. The bits on the disk are just bits on a disk... just alternating magnetic poles. There's nothing strange or different about the heads or amplifiers on an Apple, Commodore, or Amiga drive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 5 17:20:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: <3FF9EA38.2000500@ntlworld.com> from "Dan Williams" at Jan 5, 4 10:50:32 pm Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > >>1) ICL Perq T2 with A3 Landscape monitor and running FLEX > I already sent an email this morning, hopefully I was first. Excellent. So it will be saved... If whoever gets it needs any help getting it going, then feel free to post here or e-mail me. I have a fair amount of documentation on the PERQ (and had done hardware repairs, written microcode, and such like...) Fortunately it's a T2, so there's no head clamping procedure to worry about. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 5 17:54:18 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: <10401052315.ZM24449@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10401052315.ZM24449@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040105154016.Q92131@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 5, 15:02, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Me, I want to know how they make an FM/MFM drive read a GCR disk... > It's not a drive issue, it's a controller issue. The bits on the disk > are just bits on a disk... just alternating magnetic poles. There's > nothing strange or different about the heads or amplifiers on an Apple, > Commodore, or Amiga drive. ... but the controller is ALSO FM/MFM. THAT is the "impossible" part. hint: disrupt in mid-read by messing with drive select and some drives work easier than others for it. For example, with the Apple Turnover, Tandon TM100 drives worked well, but Teac 55's would often not work without some minor mods. Long ago, I tried unsuccessfully to implement the technique. And then more recently, I tried some software that purported to do it. Also unsuccessfully. But neither of my attempts were in sufficient depth to state that the technique can't work - my congratulations to the guy who succeeded! And once there is a successful track read, parsing sectors and working out the DIRectory is straight-forward. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 5 18:00:25 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! References: <10401052315.ZM24449@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040105154016.Q92131@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <005b01c3d3e8$165fdb00$1a02a8c0@starship1> So where do we d/l this magical software?!?!? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 6:54 PM Subject: Re: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! > On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 5, 15:02, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > Me, I want to know how they make an FM/MFM drive read a GCR disk... > > It's not a drive issue, it's a controller issue. The bits on the disk > > are just bits on a disk... just alternating magnetic poles. There's > > nothing strange or different about the heads or amplifiers on an Apple, > > Commodore, or Amiga drive. > > ... but the controller is ALSO FM/MFM. THAT is the "impossible" part. > > hint: disrupt in mid-read by messing with drive select > > and some drives work easier than others for it. For example, > with the Apple Turnover, Tandon TM100 drives worked well, > but Teac 55's would often not work without some minor mods. > > > Long ago, I tried unsuccessfully to implement the technique. > And then more recently, I tried some software that purported > to do it. Also unsuccessfully. > > But neither of my attempts were in sufficient depth to state > that the technique can't work - my congratulations to the guy > who succeeded! > > > And once there is a successful track read, parsing sectors > and working out the DIRectory is straight-forward. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 5 17:57:25 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: Looking for a copy of EK-KA630-UG In-Reply-To: <200401052015.PAA11165@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <0401052007.AA00744@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200401052015.PAA11165@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040106005725.52b8c930.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:12:41 -0500 (EST) der Mouse wrote: > > Would there happen to be some kind soul out there with a copy of DEC > > manual EK-KA630-UG willing to make a xerox copy of it for me? > I'd actually like to get hold of a copy myself. All I can offer is: KA680_CPU_Module_Technical_Manual.pdf, 21103661 bytes. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jan 5 18:24:49 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > 1) ICL Perq T2 with A3 Landscape monitor and running FLEX > > For %deity's sake, please could somebody rescue that!. It's an > interesting machine (and I've never seen PERQ FLEX, which I believe has > nothing to do with the 6800/6809 OS). I'd love to save it, but I'm too far away - Yorkshire vs. Cardiff. Not going to happen. :-/ That said, I'd love a PERQ, if only for curiosity value. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Jan 5 18:59:45 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. In-Reply-To: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1073350185.4583.49.camel@newton.gb.davies.net.au> On Mon, 2004-01-05 at 13:58, Jay West wrote: > I'm finally starting to look at my options for putting together some of my > DEC gear into complete refurbed systems. I was thinking of using an RA81 > drive with my 11/45. However, best as I can eyeball it, the RA81 drive won't > fit into the H960 rack depth-wise (at least, with a proper back door on it > like mine has - and I want it to be able to close). The RA81 drives I have > are in a tall white corp cabinet, except two are in another H960 rack (which > has no back door). From looking at those two, I don't think a back door (on > my other 960 rack) would close (the two RA81's in the current 960 without > the back door looks like - ummm an amateur job). > > Can someone confirm or deny, before I start going to the grief of racking > heavy drives & such? You just need the right sort of back door :-) When I used to manage a "large" VAXcluster with 15 or so RA81s they were mounted in H960 racks but the back doors were U shaped (when looked at from above) to allow extra length for the RA81s. Ah, the good old days.... -- Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 5 19:43:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) Message-ID: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Giveth: An old LA36 I got about 5 years ago, never even touched it, just pushed it into a corner. Tonight I was cleaning out the room where I house "finished systems", so sitting down for a rest I noticed the easy access door on the back. Opened it to see what the inside of an LA36 looked like. Neatly bundled up inside was an 8E async line interface card, complete with cable. Yay! Taketh Away: After working years on my HP2000 restoration, it's finally done, except for modifying the rails for the punch - but even with the wrong rails the punch sits in the rack nicely. So, you're never "done" with a system restoration, but I'm pretty much "done" with it. So, after cleaning out the room (aka shrine) it has been destined for all these years, I roll the nice double bay rack through the basement towards it's hallowed resting place... and stop cold at the doorway. The rack is too big to fit through the door and into the room. Not to be easily deterred, I looked around the door jam to see if I could take the door frame out and make it through. No dice, even if I took out the door frame. It's right on two studs, and the distance between studs is about 2 inches short. Tomorrow night I may well contemplate cutting the bottom of one of the studs off so the anti-tip ledge in front of the rack (a whole ledge, not a leg - and it's not removeable) can fit through. Hope that isn't a load bearing stud or whatever. *sigh* Jay West From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 5 20:25:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin] In-Reply-To: <20040105151646.41088.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040105151646.41088.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1073355315.2631.10.camel@dhcp-250006> Ahhh... my bad.... On Mon, 2004-01-05 at 07:16, steve wrote: > Well maybe Fairchild is not making them but others > are, standard TTL production is still active according > to the TI website, see > > http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/sn7400.html > > and the 7407 > > http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/sn7407.html > > > --- Tom Jennings wrote: > > Not news, others on this list may have seen... > > > > But I believe this/was is the last TTL chip (eg. not > > LS, S, etc) on the > > market. > > > > > > -----Forwarded Message----- > > > > From: info.service@digikey.com > > To: TOMJ@wps.com > > Subject: Digi-Key Obsolete Part Bulletin > > Date: 17 Dec 2003 12:40:49 -0600 > > > > > > You have purchased the following part number(s) from > > Digi-Key within the last two years. > > The manufacturer has announced this part(s) will > > become obsolete. > > > > FAIRCHILD SEMICONDUCTOR > > Description: IC BUFFER HEX OPEN OUT 14-DIP > > Manufacturer Part No: DM7407N > > > > Digi-Key Part No: DM7407N-ND > > Your Most Recent P.O. No: > > > > For more information on possible substitutes, please > > click on this link > > > http://dkc1.digikey.com/scripts/us/obs_part.cgi?pn=DM7407N-ND > > > > > > > > This email was sent to TOMJ@WPS.COM. > > > > Thank you for purchasing these products from > > Digi-Key. We look forward to serving you in the > > future. > > > > Regards, > > > > Digi-Key Information Services Team > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 > http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 5 21:43:38 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: <10401052315.ZM24449@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 5, 15:02, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Me, I want to know how they make an FM/MFM drive read a GCR disk... > > It's not a drive issue, it's a controller issue. The bits on the disk > are just bits on a disk... just alternating magnetic poles. There's > nothing strange or different about the heads or amplifiers on an Apple, > Commodore, or Amiga drive. > :r/drive/controller/ :) g. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jan 5 21:40:58 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <3FF9D659.595FBC22@compsys.to> Message-ID: >fire@dls.net wrote: > I wanted to revive my MicroVax II (BA23 cabinet I think) and add > RZ74 (4GB drive) to it. I am writing number from memory, perhaps > I have made mistakes. Will this card on Ebay do the trick? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2775848822&category=1247&rd=1 > I believe this might be the easiest way to get SCSI support > on my machine, but perhaps this card is incompatible, or > drive is too big? Uhm... be *very* careful with connecting these drives, and the KDA50 controllers, to the BA23 power supply. Most of these will *not* be able to handle them together, since the KDA50 controller (SDI to QBus) is a power-hungry monster. Other than that, the drive would work just fine on the VAX. --f From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 5 22:30:11 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question References: Message-ID: <016901c3d40d$c6d643a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Fred may be talking about the RA74 (contrasts with the RZ74) here. -jea RA's go to KDA50's doing SDI RD's go to RQDX's doing MFM/RLL RF's go to KFQSA's doing DSSI RZ's go to KZQSA's doing SCSI I believe some list members have attached the four disk types all to a system at once and have succeeded, using a wide QBus cabinet. >> I wanted to revive my MicroVax II (BA23 cabinet I think) and add >> RZ74 (4GB drive) to it. I am writing number from memory, perhaps >> I have made mistakes. Will this card on Ebay do the trick? >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2775848822&category=1247& rd=1 >> I believe this might be the easiest way to get SCSI support >> on my machine, but perhaps this card is incompatible, or >> drive is too big? > Uhm... be *very* careful with connecting these drives, and the > KDA50 controllers, to the BA23 power supply. Most of these > will *not* be able to handle them together, since the KDA50 > controller (SDI to QBus) is a power-hungry monster. > Other than that, the drive would work just fine on the VAX. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 6 01:41:16 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <016901c3d40d$c6d643a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <016901c3d40d$c6d643a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Still, an RZ28 would be a better choice for a 4GB drive. I've never even heard of a RZ74, but I assume it's a full height 5 1/4" model, which translates to more power, and noise than a RZ28. Moving my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 from full height 5 1/4" drives to 3.5"x1" drives made a large difference in the amount of noise it makes, in addition to cutting down on the amount of power that it pulls. Zane >Fred may be talking about the RA74 (contrasts with the RZ74) here. -jea >RA's go to KDA50's doing SDI >RD's go to RQDX's doing MFM/RLL >RF's go to KFQSA's doing DSSI >RZ's go to KZQSA's doing SCSI >I believe some list members have attached the four disk types all to >a system at once and have succeeded, using a wide QBus cabinet. > > >>> I wanted to revive my MicroVax II (BA23 cabinet I think) and add >>> RZ74 (4GB drive) to it. I am writing number from memory, perhaps >>> I have made mistakes. Will this card on Ebay do the trick? >>> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2775848822&category=1247& >rd=1 >>> I believe this might be the easiest way to get SCSI support >>> on my machine, but perhaps this card is incompatible, or >>> drive is too big? > >> Uhm... be *very* careful with connecting these drives, and the >> KDA50 controllers, to the BA23 power supply. Most of these >> will *not* be able to handle them together, since the KDA50 >> controller (SDI to QBus) is a power-hungry monster. >> Other than that, the drive would work just fine on the VAX. -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 6 01:46:20 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question Message-ID: <0401060746.AA01544@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Moving my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 from full height 5 1/4" drives to 3.5"x1" > drives made a large difference in the amount of noise it makes, But some true classic computer users _LIKE_ noise! To me the more noise a computer makes, the better! MS From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 5 18:10:00 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <06d301c3d3d8$79b668a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040105192428.E3C81968512@demolition.dls.net> <3FF9D659.595FBC22@compsys.to> <06d301c3d3d8$79b668a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040106011000.372fad8c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:08:39 -0500 "John Allain" wrote: > A good question to ask is if the QBus in a BA23/uVII is > electrically the same as the one in the BA213/uVIII. > If it is then I'd say go and get the card, even with the > appendages on it. QBus is QBus. The only difference is that the BA23 has 3 Q/CD and 5 Q/Q Slots and the BA2xx boxen have only Q/CD slots (no serpentine). Ahh, the card spaceing and the handles are different. But BA132 / BA23 cards fit into a BA2xx or BA4xx without problem. Unfortunately this SCSI adapter is worthless. AFAIK the KZQSA does _not_ support MSCP / TMSCP. It was intended as a "tape only adapter" for VAX 4000 systems. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 6 02:12:43 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!! In-Reply-To: Gene Buckle "Re: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS !!!" (Jan 5, 19:43) References: Message-ID: <10401060812.ZM24867@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 19:43, Gene Buckle wrote: > > On Jan 5, 15:02, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > Me, I want to know how they make an FM/MFM drive read a GCR disk... > > > > It's not a drive issue, it's a controller issue. The bits on the disk > > are just bits on a disk... just alternating magnetic poles. There's > > nothing strange or different about the heads or amplifiers on an Apple, > > Commodore, or Amiga drive. > > > :r/drive/controller/ Not sure what you mean... I meant exactly what I wrote. Ah, did you mean that you meant "controller" instead of drive? Then you need to read the docs that accompany the software :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 6 02:52:15 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <0401060746.AA01544@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401060746.AA01544@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: >Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Moving my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 from full height 5 1/4" drives to 3.5"x1" >> drives made a large difference in the amount of noise it makes, > >But some true classic computer users _LIKE_ noise! To me the more noise a >computer makes, the better! Then you'd like the BA350 with it's 2x fans attached to my DEC PWS433au (running OpenVMS of course). It's in our dining room, sitting about 3-4 feet from me, and unfortunately I'm not to fond of noise. I really need to get the data moved off of there to the new large internal disk I installed a while back... Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 6 02:59:27 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question Message-ID: <0401060859.AA01680@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Zane H. Healy wrote: > It's in our dining room, sitting about 3-4 feet from me, and unfortunately > I'm not to fond of noise. Dining room? Well, I ain't got no dining room. Instead I have a machine room, a command room, a small kitchen and bedroom, and of course a data centre room (closet with tapes and spare parts). MS From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Jan 6 05:30:05 2004 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question Message-ID: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> Jochen Kunz wrote: . > Unfortunately this SCSI adapter is worthless. AFAIK the KZQSA does _not_ > support MSCP / TMSCP. It was intended as a "tape only adapter" for VAX > 4000 systems. I'm virtually certain I've used a KZQSA in a VAX 4000 model 500 to attach an CD drive to the system and install OpenVMS 6 or 7. This may be completely compatible with what Jochen wrote, I've been up all night and the higher functions are going fast... Didn't actually try a hard drive as there were sufficient DSSI drives in the system box, but I could try that out sometime this week I suppose. --Steve. From Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de Tue Jan 6 04:00:22 2004 From: Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: [RA8x] > Not only do they not fit, they also die quickly; try to locate > some RA9x or RA7x drives instead. It's true, they don't fit. I have a RA80 in such a rack. But I can't confirm they die quickly. This RA80 drive (actually I have two from the same source) was in permanent use 24/7 from 1982 until Nov. 2000. Now it is hooked to a 11/34 and used as system disk for 2.9BSD. And no problems so far. Christian From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Jan 6 07:40:47 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: ka630 manual Message-ID: <040106084047.23a72@splab.cas.neu.edu> O.K., I will NOT pull the binding, and I will send the manual to Canada. Joe Heck From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Tue Jan 6 07:18:35 2004 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (Doug Peksa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 'Free to a good home' Message-ID: My, I've never been so popular. Sorry to disappoint overseas subscribers but I would really not like to even think of the transportation logistics. I've e-mailed the lucky winners (Dan & Pete) who were selected on a first come first served basis and the fact that they will pick them up. Forgot to mention that the PDP11/04 also has a GT40 & light pen. For those who asked - It's a space issue and the realisation (after collecting for 18 years - yes it took that long) that I can't keep everything and don't have the time to keep everything in good working order. The Perq provided many months of entertainment and the PDP11/04 many years - but I haven't used the Perq seriously for a number of years and the PDP11/04 at all since the RK11D broke in 2000. I shall seriously miss running ADVENT on a UNIBUS PDP sitting at the LA36 console wearing my ear defenders. I shall also miss LANDER which ran on the GT40 and was controlled by the lightpen. McDonalds get everywhere don't they ;-). Anyway I hope the new owners have as much fun with them as I did. Doug. PS There will be more stuff at a later date. From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Jan 6 08:24:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> References: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3FFAC536.1000208@atarimuseum.com> Yes, I also use a CD-ROM off of that adapter besides a tape drive, so its not tape drive specific. Curt Steven M Jones wrote: >Jochen Kunz wrote: >. > > >>Unfortunately this SCSI adapter is worthless. AFAIK the KZQSA does _not_ >>support MSCP / TMSCP. It was intended as a "tape only adapter" for VAX >>4000 systems. >> >> > >I'm virtually certain I've used a KZQSA in a VAX 4000 model 500 >to attach an CD drive to the system and install OpenVMS 6 or 7. >This may be completely compatible with what Jochen wrote, I've >been up all night and the higher functions are going fast... > >Didn't actually try a hard drive as there were sufficient DSSI >drives in the system box, but I could try that out sometime this >week I suppose. > >--Steve. > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Jan 6 09:21:43 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> References: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <200401060721.43143.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I've used a KZQSA to build VMS on both a VAX 4000 Model 300 and VAX 400 Model 600. Lyle On Tuesday 06 January 2004 03:30, Steven M Jones wrote: > Jochen Kunz wrote: > . > > > Unfortunately this SCSI adapter is worthless. AFAIK the KZQSA does _not_ > > support MSCP / TMSCP. It was intended as a "tape only adapter" for VAX > > 4000 systems. > > I'm virtually certain I've used a KZQSA in a VAX 4000 model 500 > to attach an CD drive to the system and install OpenVMS 6 or 7. > This may be completely compatible with what Jochen wrote, I've > been up all night and the higher functions are going fast... > > Didn't actually try a hard drive as there were sufficient DSSI > drives in the system box, but I could try that out sometime this > week I suppose. > > --Steve. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jan 6 10:51:46 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 3307 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike Thompson seems to have uploaded the Wang pictures at last to our site at museum.com. I think these were the VS-85, VS-90 and VS-100 machines. -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 6 11:16:23 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question References: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> <200401060721.43143.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <03cb01c3d478$d7715a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Say what it was using. There's a big difference between reading a CD and writing a Harddrive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lyle Bickley To: ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: Re: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question I've used a KZQSA to build VMS on both a VAX 4000 Model 300 and VAX 400 Model 600. Lyle On Tuesday 06 January 2004 03:30, Steven M Jones wrote: > Jochen Kunz wrote: > . > > > Unfortunately this SCSI adapter is worthless. AFAIK the KZQSA does _not_ > > support MSCP / TMSCP. It was intended as a "tape only adapter" for VAX > > 4000 systems. > > I'm virtually certain I've used a KZQSA in a VAX 4000 model 500 > to attach an CD drive to the system and install OpenVMS 6 or 7. > This may be completely compatible with what Jochen wrote, I've > been up all night and the higher functions are going fast... > > Didn't actually try a hard drive as there were sufficient DSSI > drives in the system box, but I could try that out sometime this > week I suppose. > > --Steve. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Tue Jan 6 11:49:54 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> > > I roll the nice double bay > rack through the basement towards it's hallowed resting place... and stop > cold at the doorway. The rack is too big to fit through the door and into > the room. maybe it's a suggestion to put it upstairs so we don't hear it being taken in those dreadful "my basement flooded" stories that I have heard too often. What can you possibly be doing with the master bedroom that doesn't need a warm glowing and blinking object in the corner. Sure it has fans, but if you are a proper NRA member, you have the proper ear protection to guard against that. Jim From silviorf at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 12:20:03 2004 From: silviorf at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Silvio=20Finotti?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS In-Reply-To: <200401061330.i06DTrib016871@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040106182003.15139.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, The link for the "magical" software are: http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi/index_html For use with C64 disks, you'll have to make a little "hack" at the PC 5,25 drive. (it needs to spin at 300rpm, and almost all 5,25 drives will spin at defaut at 360rpm) For reading the flip side of the disk it's necessary an othe hack at the 5,25 drive. It's very simple, I've made it mysel without problems... If anyone wants some help on reading the disks, let me know... it's really simple. I have some images here that I extracted... if anyone want to "see" one of them, let me know too... [ ]s Silvio Finotti ______________________________________________________________________ Conhe?a a nova central de informa??es anti-spam do Yahoo! Mail: http://www.yahoo.com.br/antispam From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 6 12:21:35 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Fred may be talking about the RA74 (contrasts with the RZ74) here. -jea OOps, sorry, yes. The RZ74 is actually the HDA of an RF74 (DSSI), but with SCSI based electronics- I have several of them. DEC probably wanted to sell all their leftover DSSI HDA's before doing new ones, in the transition period from DSSI to SCSI. Also, doing it that way probably was good to cut on production cost: one HDA, two target groups of customers.. So, um, the RZ74 is a 3.5GB (not 4GB) SCSI disk, 5.25", full height (still power-hungry ;-) drive. Its fairly fast, but also makes a shitload of noise, so dont put it in a livingroom system :) And indeed, the RZ28 (2GB) or RZ29 (4GB) drives are much better choices, and will last you longer, too, as they are much newer (usually based on Seagate's HAWK or Barracuda drives.) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 6 12:24:00 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Zane writes: > >But some true classic computer users _LIKE_ noise! To me the more noise a > >computer makes, the better! > > Then you'd like the BA350 with it's 2x fans attached to my DEC PWS433au (running OpenVMS of course). It's in our dining room, sitting about 3-4 feet from me, and unfortunately I'm not to fond of noise. I really need to get the data moved off of there to the new large internal disk I installed a while back... Ha! I can beat that. I have three HSZ40-based shelf racks running. Well, without the racks, just the seven shelves with the drives, the fans, and the cabling :) And three times that, too :) [yes, that stuff makes LOTS of noise..] --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 6 12:27:53 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <03cb01c3d478$d7715a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > Say what it was using. There's a big difference between reading a CD and > writing a Harddrive. No there is not, they are both SCSI random-access devices, contrast to tapes, with are sequential-access devices. The SCSI layer uses different I/O commands (and commands structures) for those two classes of devices. That said... I believe the KZQ doesnt do any (T)MSCP emulation, or it has one that is switcheable (like the Emulex UC07/8). I have seen it used with both classes of devices. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 6 12:30:35 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <016901c3d40d$c6d643a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > RA's go to KDA50's doing SDI MSCP controller. > RD's go to RQDX's doing MFM/RLL MSCP controller. > RF's go to KFQSA's doing DSSI MSCP controller. > RZ's go to KZQSA's doing SCSI Dunno, or(T)MSCP. So, yes, you can use all of these in a single system, if you have enough addresses and vectors for the controllers and are able to tell the OS what those addresses are- the OS still uses a single device driver for all of them. (perhaps not for the KZQSA, see other msg) --f From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 6 12:44:38 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question References: <0401060859.AA01680@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <3FFB0216.2050405@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > > Dining room? Well, I ain't got no dining room. Instead I have a machine room, > a command room, a small kitchen and bedroom, and of course a data centre room > (closet with tapes and spare parts). You do have a bathroom hiding somewhere around? From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 6 12:53:20 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question Message-ID: <0401061853.AA02238@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ben franchuk wrote: > You do have a bathroom hiding somewhere around? Yeah, I just forgot to list it. (Indeed some people are wondering if they have a bathroom on Enterprise, or if they've been holding it all along.) MS From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 6 13:08:05 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Ha! I can beat that. I have three HSZ40-based shelf racks >running. Well, without the racks, just the seven shelves >with the drives, the fans, and the cabling :) And three >times that, too :) > >[yes, that stuff makes LOTS of noise..] >--f Heh... I've got a pair of the rack units in the storage area off the deck, each has one shelf for HSZ50's, and three for disks. I powered one up once in the apartment, way to noisy, way to much power. Besides, I've only got 4GB drives for both of them, so for the cost of powering one of them I could probably buy a pair of 70GB+ disks and shadow them. My VMS server is just fine with a 36GB system disk and 3 4GB disks, I've been seriously considering moving all the data to the 36GB disk, but I like the safety the 4GB disks give (easier backups, and I can volume shadow them, though only one is at the moment). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Jan 6 13:09:57 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <03cb01c3d478$d7715a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> <200401060721.43143.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <03cb01c3d478$d7715a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200401061109.57437.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Oops, sorry - from the train of messages, I thought that was impled... I used it w/both CDROM and HDD - and it booted VMS from the CDROM. I've also successfully used an Emulex UC07 booting VMS from CDROM - and using it for CDROM and HDD. As I recollect, I had trouble booting/installing BSD using either KZQSA or UC07 - but I didn't really follow up on it as I was most interested in native VMS. Lyle On Tuesday 06 January 2004 09:16, John Allain wrote: > Say what it was using. There's a big difference between reading a CD and > writing a Harddrive. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lyle Bickley > To: ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:21 AM > Subject: Re: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question > > > I've used a KZQSA to build VMS on both a VAX 4000 Model 300 and VAX 400 > Model > 600. > > Lyle > > On Tuesday 06 January 2004 03:30, Steven M Jones wrote: > > Jochen Kunz wrote: > > . > > > > > Unfortunately this SCSI adapter is worthless. AFAIK the KZQSA does > > > _not_ support MSCP / TMSCP. It was intended as a "tape only adapter" > > > for VAX 4000 systems. > > > > I'm virtually certain I've used a KZQSA in a VAX 4000 model 500 > > to attach an CD drive to the system and install OpenVMS 6 or 7. > > This may be completely compatible with what Jochen wrote, I've > > been up all night and the higher functions are going fast... > > > > Didn't actually try a hard drive as there were sufficient DSSI > > drives in the system box, but I could try that out sometime this > > week I suppose. > > > > --Steve. > > -- > Lyle Bickley > Bickley Consulting West Inc. > http://bickleywest.com > "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 6 13:14:19 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS Message-ID: <200401061914.LAA05006@clulw009.amd.com> >Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:20:03 -0300 (ART) >From: "Silvio Finotti" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: reading apple ii disks with PCs: it WORKS >X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 >List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >List-Unsubscribe: , >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: , >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by amdext2.amd.com id i06IMXg5023261 >X-WSS-ID: 13E423639049837-01-01 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cmdmail.amd.com id i06IMiu26023 > >Hi all, > >The link for the "magical" software are: >http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi/index_html > >For use with C64 disks, you'll have to make a little >"hack" at the PC 5,25 drive. (it needs to spin at >300rpm, and almost all 5,25 drives will spin at defaut >at 360rpm) Hi Of course, I suspect that if you use a 360K drive, this isn't an issue. From the docs, it looks like it is configureable on things like double stepping for the 96tpi. Dwight > >For reading the flip side of the disk it's necessary >an othe hack at the 5,25 drive. It's very simple, I've >made it mysel without problems... > >If anyone wants some help on reading the disks, let me >know... it's really simple. I have some images here >that I extracted... if anyone want to "see" one of >them, let me know too... > >[ ]s >Silvio Finotti > >______________________________________________________________________ > >Conhe?a a nova central de informa??es anti-spam do Yahoo! Mail: >http://www.yahoo.com.br/antispam > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Jan 6 13:19:06 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401061109.57437.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <200401061130.i06BU5hI096773@io.crash.com> <03cb01c3d478$d7715a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200401061109.57437.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <200401061119.06131.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Here's another "interesting" point - a VMS HDD created by the Emulex UC07 or KZQSA is compatible with either the KZQSA or UC07. I could hardly believe it - but the same SCSI HDD created from either will boot and run VMS from either... Lyle On Tuesday 06 January 2004 11:09, Lyle Bickley wrote: > Oops, sorry - from the train of messages, I thought that was impled... > > I used it w/both CDROM and HDD - and it booted VMS from the CDROM. I've > also successfully used an Emulex UC07 booting VMS from CDROM - and using it > for CDROM and HDD. > > As I recollect, I had trouble booting/installing BSD using either KZQSA or > UC07 - but I didn't really follow up on it as I was most interested in > native VMS. > > Lyle > > On Tuesday 06 January 2004 09:16, John Allain wrote: > > Say what it was using. There's a big difference between reading a CD and > > writing a Harddrive. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lyle Bickley > > To: ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > Posts > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:21 AM > > Subject: Re: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question > > > > > > I've used a KZQSA to build VMS on both a VAX 4000 Model 300 and VAX 400 > > Model > > 600. > > > > Lyle > > > > On Tuesday 06 January 2004 03:30, Steven M Jones wrote: > > > Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > . > > > > > > > Unfortunately this SCSI adapter is worthless. AFAIK the KZQSA does > > > > _not_ support MSCP / TMSCP. It was intended as a "tape only adapter" > > > > for VAX 4000 systems. > > > > > > I'm virtually certain I've used a KZQSA in a VAX 4000 model 500 > > > to attach an CD drive to the system and install OpenVMS 6 or 7. > > > This may be completely compatible with what Jochen wrote, I've > > > been up all night and the higher functions are going fast... > > > > > > Didn't actually try a hard drive as there were sufficient DSSI > > > drives in the system box, but I could try that out sometime this > > > week I suppose. > > > > > > --Steve. > > > > -- > > Lyle Bickley > > Bickley Consulting West Inc. > > http://bickleywest.com > > "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jan 6 13:31:22 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: <3FF9EA38.2000500@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <002701c3d48b$ab0e2740$5b01a8c0@athlon> > >For %deity's sake, please could somebody rescue that!. It's an > >interesting machine (and I've never seen PERQ FLEX, which I > believe has > >nothing to do with the 6800/6809 OS). > > > >No, I can't house it, I've already got 4 PERQs (one of each flavour). > > > >-tony > > > > > > > I already sent an email this morning, hopefully I was first. Only 'cos I stopped myself on four separate occasions :-) I'd take it all in a jiffy if I had anywhere to keep it! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 6 14:08:15 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401061119.06131.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > Here's another "interesting" point - a VMS HDD created by the Emulex UC07 or > KZQSA is compatible with either the KZQSA or UC07. > > I could hardly believe it - but the same SCSI HDD created from either will > boot and run VMS from either... Well, a SCSI device does its own low-level formatting and bad block management and interleaving, so, pretty much is a box full of data blocks to the controller. So, the controllers only have to address those blocks, and nothing else- this would indeed allow to "share" the layout between controllers, as is quite normal for SCSI devices these days. Although the UC0x controllers use KDA50 emulation, they do this towards the *host*, not the *device* end, so probably don't do anything weird at the device end that would make them incompatible with the other controllers, such as the KZQSA. Which, if memory serves me right, was just an NCR 5340 or 5380 atop a Qbus bus interface.. --f From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 6 14:11:51 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: <002701c3d48b$ab0e2740$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 06 January 2004 19:31 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: 'Free to good home' > > > > > > I already sent an email this morning, hopefully I was first. > > Only 'cos I stopped myself on four separate occasions :-) > > I'd take it all in a jiffy if I had anywhere to keep it! I don't think it'll all fit in a jiffy :o) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From Brett at Kropf.com Tue Jan 6 11:39:43 2004 From: Brett at Kropf.com (Brett Kropf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:13 2005 Subject: Wanted WD-100x disk controllers -- NOT for ISA bus Message-ID: <3FFAF2DF.1DDACB2@Kropf.com> Back about July 2002, you wrote: > Does anyone have any spare WD-1000, WD-1001, > or related disk controllers, or documentation on them? I have a WD1002-SASI (TAN) controller card in unknown condition. (The "TAN" is hand written, and is also written on a BIOS chip "Tan 5.0".) I purchased it used about 20 years ago to attempt to add a Hard Drive to a TI-99/4A, although I never actually started the project. I also have a 534 page Western Digital Corp. June 1984 Storage Management Products Handbook that includes data on the following "Winchester Board Products": WD1000-05 WD1001 WD1002-05 WD1002-MTB WD1002-SHD WD1002-WFT WD1002-WX2 The WD1002-SHD (at least) has data regarding the SASI port. If interested, make me a serious offer, and include your ZIP-Code to determine shipping. Thanks. -- > Keeping business plugged in... to the Whole - Wide - World! < > Reliable Domain, Email & fast Web Site Hosting * Web Site Design < > http://Kropf.com/ Kropf Computer Services, Inc. Kingston, NY USA < > http://Kropf.org/ Kropf Organization - Home of Kropf Genealogy < > http://Kropf.net/protect.html Protect addresses or get Hoaxed!! < > http://Kropf.net/etiquette.html Encourages E-mail Effectiveness. < From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Jan 6 14:38:59 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401061238.59095.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Fred, I think what surprised me about it was that a reading of the UC07 installation manual led me to believe that the "emulation" feature of the UC07 created an "special" structure on the SCSI HDD. The fact that Emulex didn't do something "strange" made me appreciate the them even more ;-) Lyle On Tuesday 06 January 2004 12:08, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > Here's another "interesting" point - a VMS HDD created by the Emulex UC07 > > or KZQSA is compatible with either the KZQSA or UC07. > > > > I could hardly believe it - but the same SCSI HDD created from either > > will boot and run VMS from either... > > Well, a SCSI device does its own low-level formatting and bad > block management and interleaving, so, pretty much is a box full > of data blocks to the controller. So, the controllers only have > to address those blocks, and nothing else- this would indeed > allow to "share" the layout between controllers, as is quite > normal for SCSI devices these days. > > Although the UC0x controllers use KDA50 emulation, they do this > towards the *host*, not the *device* end, so probably don't do > anything weird at the device end that would make them incompatible > with the other controllers, such as the KZQSA. Which, if memory > serves me right, was just an NCR 5340 or 5380 atop a Qbus bus > interface.. > > --f -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 6 16:30:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, jim wrote: > What can you possibly be doing with the master bedroom that doesn't > need a warm glowing and blinking object in the corner. That would seem to describe his wife wearing Christmas lights. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Jan 6 16:47:34 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401061447.34744.lbickley@bickleywest.com> That or a very radioactive wife.... Lyle On Tuesday 06 January 2004 14:30, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, jim wrote: > > What can you possibly be doing with the master bedroom that doesn't > > need a warm glowing and blinking object in the corner. > > That would seem to describe his wife wearing Christmas lights. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 6 16:19:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <0401060859.AA01680@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at Jan 6, 4 00:59:27 am Message-ID: > Dining room? Well, I ain't got no dining room. Instead I have a machine room, My parents used to have a dining room. It now contains this PC, the PC/XT with the EPROM programmer, etc, a laser printer, a PDP8/e system, a TRS-80 Model 4, a DAP, a PERQ, an ITEM, a Daybreak, an FTS-88, an HP2100A and many more toys... -tony From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 6 16:54:48 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Dining room? Well, I ain't got no dining room. Instead I have a machine room, > > My parents used to have a dining room. It now contains this PC, the PC/XT > with the EPROM programmer, etc, a laser printer, a PDP8/e system, a > TRS-80 Model 4, a DAP, a PERQ, an ITEM, a Daybreak, an FTS-88, an HP2100A > and many more toys... I am *almost* afraid to ask, Tony, but, er, ... what did ya do with yer parents, then? :) --f From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 6 17:43:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> But some true classic computer users _LIKE_ noise! To me the more >>> noise a computer makes, the better! I once had the (mis)fortune to use a machine with a Seagate 2G Barracuda in it. I will cheerfully swap you my entire stock of those drives for otherwise equivalent _quiet_ drives of half the capacity. More noise is not _always_ preferable. Or perhaps this merely means I'm not a Real Classic Collector. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 6 18:10:12 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > >>> But some true classic computer users _LIKE_ noise! To me the more >>>> noise a computer makes, the better! > >I once had the (mis)fortune to use a machine with a Seagate 2G >Barracuda in it. I will cheerfully swap you my entire stock of those >drives for otherwise equivalent _quiet_ drives of half the capacity. > >More noise is not _always_ preferable. The scarry thing is the quieter 3.5" x 1" drives I mentioned replacing the full height 5 1/4" drives with are Seagate 2GB Barracuda's! BTW, let me guess, the machine you had the misfortune to use was a Sun Pizzabox, right? Those suckers are noisy with the Barracuda's! >Or perhaps this merely means I'm not a Real Classic Collector. Nonsense, it just means you still have some of your hearing :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Jan 6 18:17:58 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3FFB5036.6030905@4mcnabb.net> der Mouse wrote: >I once had the (mis)fortune to use a machine with a Seagate 2G >Barracuda in it. I will cheerfully swap you my entire stock of those >drives for otherwise equivalent _quiet_ drives of half the capacity. > >More noise is not _always_ preferable. > > > Something as recent a 2G Barracuda would certainly qualify as non-preferable noise. A bunch of RA-80s or RK-5s, though, would be a sound of beauty. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 6 18:27:29 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: References: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401070031.TAA28579@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I once had the (mis)fortune to use a machine with a Seagate 2G >> Barracuda in it. > The scarry thing is the quieter 3.5" x 1" drives I mentioned > replacing the full height 5 1/4" drives with are Seagate 2GB > Barracuda's! Ow! I'd happily take more decibels of white, or at least fan, noise over fewer decibels of that horrible Barracuda whine. At least to a point. That's a bad pitch for my hearing. > BTW, let me guess, the machine you had the misfortune to use was a > Sun Pizzabox, right? Those suckers are noisy with the Barracuda's! Yes. One of the SCA machines - a 4, or a 5, maybe. (I also had a U1 with more 2G Barracudas, but that was turned off most of the time.) >> Or perhaps this merely means I'm not a Real Classic Collector. > Nonsense, it just means you still have some of your hearing :^) After that time (it was some months) I feel sure I have a notch in my hearing right at the pitch of the Barracuda's whine.... der Mouse From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Jan 6 21:10:20 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question Message-ID: <040106221020.23c70@splab.cas.neu.edu> personally, I like the sound of a bank of reel-to-reel tape drives with the vacuum columns sucking air and the pumps running noisily, especially the auto load ones that try to suck extra air to get the leader into the load mechanism... Joe Heck From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 6 20:26:26 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <001301c3d4c5$a74ca610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> You wrote.... > maybe it's a suggestion to put it upstairs so we don't hear it being taken in > those dreadful "my basement flooded" stories that I have heard too often. Only with a crane would it be moved upstairs. It has the eyebolts for it, and that's the recommended method as per the rack manual :) > What can you possibly be doing with the master bedroom that doesn't > need a warm glowing and blinking object in the corner. Not a thing *G* > Sure it has fans, but if you are a proper NRA member, you have the > proper ear protection to guard against that. (looking in the closet) SKS (tricked out), M1, Mosin-Nagant... yeah, I qualify :) J From scott at sdudley.com Tue Jan 6 20:46:38 2004 From: scott at sdudley.com (Scott Dudley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: Motorola Series 900 For Sale Message-ID: <1073443598.8482.62.camel@scott> I have 2 each rack-mounted Motorola Series 900 computers. I haven't looked in some time but as memory serves, are MVME187, 2 each ~525MB drives, Univoice T1 voice boards, tape drive, etc. Still have SVR4 installed. I'd have to strip software. Don't have any tapes or docs. I'm located near Phoenix, AZ. If interested, give me a holler. -- Regards, Scott Dudley From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Jan 6 20:45:45 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <001301c3d4c5$a74ca610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> <001301c3d4c5$a74ca610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FFB72D9.7060800@4mcnabb.net> Jay West wrote: > >(looking in the closet) SKS (tricked out), M1, Mosin-Nagant... yeah, I >qualify :) > >J > > > > > Sounds like my closet - Mosin-Nagent, Savage 30-06, 50 cal Muzzle Loader, M1911A, 380 "Carry" weapon, PDP-11/73 CPU, RQDX3, etc, etc, etc. It seems people who collect old computers also tend to collect fire-arms. Old cars also seem to be popular among the classic computer set. By the way, does anyone know if a Webster SRQ11-B will control an RD-54? From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Jan 6 20:59:00 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> <001301c3d4c5$a74ca610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFB72D9.7060800@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3FFB75F4.A7BCE02C@compsys.to> >Christopher McNabb wrote: > By the way, does anyone know if a Webster SRQ11-B will control an RD-54? Jerome Fine replies: PROBABLY! At one point I had a Sigma RQD11-B controller which is likely the equivalent. It was used to run an RD51 (ST412). If I remember, there was sufficient capability to accommodate an RD54 (Maxtor XT2090 - something close) and 159 MBytes. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 6 23:37:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan 6, 4 11:54:48 pm Message-ID: > I am *almost* afraid to ask, Tony, but, er, ... what did ya do > with yer parents, then? :) Nothing. For some odd reason they're happy to house my computer collection. Mind you, they get all electronic and mechanical repairs done free of charge. Oh and my father collects slide rules, so he can't realyl complain about other calculating devices :-) -tony From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Jan 7 00:53:24 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question References: Message-ID: <10dc01c3d4ea$f2223630$6800a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: Re: MicroVax II question > > I am *almost* afraid to ask, Tony, but, er, ... what did ya do > > with yer parents, then? :) > > Nothing. For some odd reason they're happy to house my computer > collection. Mind you, they get all electronic and mechanical repairs done > free of charge. Oh and my father collects slide rules, so he can't realyl > complain about other calculating devices :-) > > -tony > From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Jan 7 00:59:27 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: ISRG References: Message-ID: <000601c3d4eb$ca891390$6800a8c0@athlon> He does know about the ISRG? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sliderule/ DaveB, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" snip Oh and my father collects slide rules, so he can't realyl > complain about other calculating devices :-) > > -tony > From hm1 at freenet.de Wed Jan 7 01:38:21 2004 From: hm1 at freenet.de (matze) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: CT-600N tapes Message-ID: <000801c3d4f1$3bd30d80$0b00a8c0@madhome> "Hello, If you are still interested, I have a total of 11 compatible tapes (8 Teac CT-600N and 3 Maxell CS-600XD). All are used and have used labels. As far as I know, they all still work. (I still have the tape drive as well, but have no longer an operating Apple system, so I cannot check these). If you are interested, please let me know. romboc" i've read your message about the tapes(CT-600N). Do you still have that tapes? Can i get that tepes in stores? i need this tape for an old pc! thx for your help matthias From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 7 03:19:08 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: Announcing WREC release 0.01 Message-ID: <45375.64.60.242.226.1073467148.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> or, "Dont' crush that capacitor, hand me the pliers!" WREC Reforms Electrolytic Capacitors automatically using an SCPI-programmable power supply (e.g., Agilent E3631A). http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/wrec/ It was written specificcally for the Computer History Museum PDP-1 Restoration Project: http://wiki.pdp-1.org/ It should, however, be useful for reforming large aluminum electrolytic capacitors for most any kind of electronic equipment. Eric From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 7 03:40:05 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: References: <200401061119.06131.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <20040107104005.3759cc34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:08:15 +0100 (MET) "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > such as the KZQSA. Which, if memory serves me right, was just an NCR > 5340 or 5380 atop a Qbus bus interface.. Maybe I should have written somthing like this in my first mail. AFAIK the KZQSA is "dump", it doesn't support (T)MSCP and has no embedded processor like the KFQSA or RQDXn. It is only of use in a VAX 4000 QBus machine, as only this machines have the needed ROM code for booting from it. So this thing is of no real use on a PDP-11 or an older VAX and it doesn't fit into a BA23 or BA123. (Even when you remove the SBox handle. The connectors are to big for the smaler card spaceing in a BA23 or BA123.) It may be possible to attach and use tapes, CDROMs and even disks to it. But DEC intended it as tape or CDROM controler, not for disks. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 7 05:58:20 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1073476036.16121.6.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 23:43, der Mouse wrote: > >>> But some true classic computer users _LIKE_ noise! To me the more > >>> noise a computer makes, the better! > > I once had the (mis)fortune to use a machine with a Seagate 2G > Barracuda in it. I will cheerfully swap you my entire stock of those > drives for otherwise equivalent _quiet_ drives of half the capacity. Curious. Were there earlier and later models of those capacity drives? I have a Sun drive array with 12 of those drives in and they aren't that noisy (I don't tend to run it unless I need the storage space temporarily just because of the power requirements though) Actually I have two ex-SGI SCSI drives from roughly the same era (rebranded IBMs, one a 8.6GB and the other a 4.3GB) in a PC and I'd say they were louder than all 12 of the 'cudas running at once (that's even with the case open on the sun array) cheers Jules From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jan 7 07:19:43 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <1073476036.16121.6.camel@weka.localdomain> from Jules Richardson at "Jan 7, 4 11:47:17 am" Message-ID: <200401071319.FAA11658@floodgap.com> > > I once had the (mis)fortune to use a machine with a Seagate 2G > > Barracuda in it. I will cheerfully swap you my entire stock of those > > drives for otherwise equivalent _quiet_ drives of half the capacity. > > Curious. Were there earlier and later models of those capacity drives? I had, for a brief period, a Seagate Barracuda half-height 4GB drive in my Power Mac 7300. The drive sounded as if it were going into orbit every time it started up, and reduced my apartment heating bill by 50%. Naturally, it overheated within the 7300 in mere months, despite heroic efforts to jury rig better ventilation. I also have 2GB and 18GB Barracuda third-heights, and they aren't all that loud. I think it's just the half-heights that were amazingly noisy. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- CONJUGATION OF THE HULKING ENTOMOLOGIST: I big / I bag / I have bug -------- From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jan 7 07:20:51 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: Announcing WREC release 0.01 In-Reply-To: <45375.64.60.242.226.1073467148.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Jan 7, 4 01:19:08 am" Message-ID: <200401071320.FAA16094@floodgap.com> > or, "Dont' crush that capacitor, hand me the pliers!" How can you be at two farads at once, when you're not anywhere at all? (scnr) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- It's bad luck to be suspicious. -- Andrew W. Mathis ------------------------ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 7 07:10:41 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I Message-ID: Hi folks, Does anyone know how uncommon the MicroVAX I is these days? Someone's got one for me (as well as a Tangerine Microtan 65 :o)) 500 mile round trip though....meh..... cheers! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 7 09:14:08 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) Message-ID: >It seems people who collect old computers also tend to collect >fire-arms. Old cars also seem to be popular among the classic computer set. Weird. Although I wasn't specifically a gun collector (they are a little harder to get in NJ, but not impossible), I did collect weapons in general. Oddly, I have recently given up that hobby, right about the same time that I started getting out of computer collecting as well. They must both operate from the same chunk of brain :-) And as for the old cars... ever since my 1965 T-Bird disaster, I have prefered to view them from a far and simply drool and wish I could have them. Although now that I have a house, garage, and driveway, I might take a serious look at getting something to restore (and finally have a hobby my wife will want to join me in!) -chris From kd7bcy at teleport.com Wed Jan 7 09:38:10 2004 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <3FFB72D9.7060800@4mcnabb.net> References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> <001301c3d4c5$a74ca610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFB72D9.7060800@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: >Sounds like my closet - Mosin-Nagent, Savage 30-06, 50 cal Muzzle >Loader, M1911A, 380 "Carry" weapon, PDP-11/73 CPU, RQDX3, etc, etc, >etc. > >It seems people who collect old computers also tend to collect >fire-arms. Old cars also seem to be popular among the classic >computer set. LOL... How about matching things up? A Glock for my iMac, an NAA Mini Revolver for my Palm(human or computer! :P), an AR-15 for my PDP-11/84, a broken Mosin-Nagant for my unused Series/1... OK, there is one problem with the car thing. Old Volkswagens don't carry racks very well! Smaller stuff fits into my Bug OK, but you really need a large van to move the big stuff. On the plus side, my VW does great in this horrible winter weather! We have snow drifts covered in ice right now, some drifts as deep as 2 feet, but for the most part we only got 6-8" in this last storm. It's the freezing rain that gets it! I have to stop every 5 miles or so to scrape off the windows so I can see where I'm going. -- ------------ John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net ------------ From cameojcm at telenet.net Wed Jan 7 06:46:11 2004 From: cameojcm at telenet.net (Jim Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: slt 286 Message-ID: <3FFBFF93.8DCEEC9B@telenet.net> Hi, I am restoring for principle use, ( packet) a compaq slt/286 and was wondering if you know of the position or where the Mother Board battery is. I can run dos and all but the memory gave up out cause the memory battery is shot. Where is it in regards to on the board and is it a replaceable item thanks jim From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Jan 7 06:15:48 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <3FFB72D9.7060800@4mcnabb.net> References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> <001301c3d4c5$a74ca610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFB72D9.7060800@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <1073477149.30437.8.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 02:45, Christopher McNabb wrote: > It seems people who collect old computers also tend to collect > fire-arms. Old cars also seem to be popular among the classic computer set. > Over here in glorious sunny Scotland, most of the geeky computer collectors tend to run around in mid-to-late-80s, very high spec cars. The reason being, they're very cheap to buy when the electrickery goes wrong (or in the case of my beloved Citroens, the hydraulic suspension), but fairly easy to fix if you have the right sort of mind. Gordon. From phufnagel at snet.net Wed Jan 7 09:23:40 2004 From: phufnagel at snet.net (phufnagel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: re R.Stricklin msg from Aug 3rd - Everex Cube Message-ID: <3FFC247C.9080406@snet.net> Just happened to be browsing on the Everex Step Cube, 486-EISA, and saw msg from R Stricklin looking for EISA config utility. I have them if you still need them. Have to xfer them from 5-1/4 to 3.5, but I could put them up for download if you don't have them yet. Also, I have an everex cube myself here, that I'm looking to part with -- Free, but its probalby too big and heavy to ship, but anyone in the CT area that wants it... hey, its a really cool looking machine. Also have an AMI EISA motherboard, AT-factor of course, and a bunch of adaptec 2742 eisa scsi controllers (and maybe some ethernet cards) if anyone is interested. Pete From stuart at zen.co.uk Wed Jan 7 07:47:15 2004 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: new year clearout 2004 and looking for.. (Rob) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040102032819.02589128@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: Hi Rob, Can you drop me another e-mail please offlist, not sure if you got my reply! Thanks. Stu -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob O'Donnell Sent: 02 January 2004 03:38 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: new year clearout 2004 and looking for.. At 15:35 01/01/2004 +0000, stuart wrote: >I'm still on the lookout for: > >ACT Sirius is that a "Sirius 1" ? -edit- a quick google and yep, I presume it is... If so... I *had* two... a twin floppy-with-external-hard disc and a single-floppy-with-internal-hard-disc unit. One of them might still be at my parents house, and one of the might still be in my ex-wife's attic room, if she's not chucked it along with everything else I left in there... (grr.) I will make enquiries in both directions. Both in NW UK too, so you might be extra lucky ! I think I do still have some of the system software here, though, DOS 1.x I believe, some applications, utilities, etc. Also have a copy of BOS, an alternate operating system which was an interpretative system that ran a number of cobol based business applications (and which is still going strong, although they've moved on a bit since.) All that will be buried in the boxes, though, but if it's the right machine, and the machines are still where I last left them, I'll dig them out too. Regards Rob From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 7 12:33:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: slt 286 In-Reply-To: <3FFBFF93.8DCEEC9B@telenet.net> References: <3FFBFF93.8DCEEC9B@telenet.net> Message-ID: <20040107183333.GA10895@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 07:46:11AM -0500, Jim Miller wrote: > Hi, > I am restoring for principle use, ( packet) a compaq slt/286 and was > wondering if you know of the position or where the Mother Board battery > is. It's in that large black thing in the middle of the motherboard, a Dallas clock module. It's replacable, but there's no clearance between the bottom off the battery tray and top of the clock module to add a socket. On my SLT/286, since I _have_ no battery, I cut a hole in the aluminum to let the top of the module stick up. One "problem" is that the model of Dallas module that the SLT/286 uses is no longer available because of a Y2K bug. There is a substitute, but I don't know if the SLT/286 BIOS likes it or not. For now, for mine, I found a newer Dallas clock module of the exact same part number, but with a newer battery. I've also hacked the old one to expose the battery leads and soldered on an external battery connector. Mine also sees regular use (when I'm home), as a platform for my ISA-based device programmer (UP600A). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 07-Jan-2004 18:19 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.6 F (-28.7 C) Windchill -62.1 F (-52.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.7 kts Grid 344 Barometer 687.6 mb (10341. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 7 12:59:46 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > Does anyone know how uncommon the MicroVAX I is these days? Someone's > got one for me (as well as a Tangerine Microtan 65 :o)) > > 500 mile round trip though....meh..... They're fairly uncommon as VAXen go, I think mainly because so many people opted to upgrade them to MicroVAX-II systems. I only know of one or two people aside from myself who have a MicroVAX-I, and mine doesn't have any OS loaded at the moment. -brian. From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 7 13:13:52 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c3d552$73e3cf50$5b01a8c0@athlon> > 500 mile round trip though....meh..... Well worth rescuing. Then you can spend some time looking for the reputed "user-mode crasher" instruction that would halt the machine when executed even in unprivileged user mode! I've got a few boards from one - possibly enough to make up one (if they work!). But even inside DEC, most of them were upgraded. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 7 13:15:44 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003201c3d552$ae70abc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Witchy wrote: > > Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I'd take it all in a jiffy if I had anywhere to keep it! > > I don't think it'll all fit in a jiffy :o) Wouldn't matter if it did - don't have room for one of those either :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 7 13:18:48 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003301c3d553$1b2f4370$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Nothing. For some odd reason they're happy to house my computer > collection. Mind you, they get all electronic and mechanical > repairs done > free of charge. Oh and my father collects slide rules, so he > can't realyl > complain about other calculating devices :-) Must be *huge* slide rule collection to take up anywhere near as much space as your machines! (Bet they're less noisy and don't need their caps reforming too!) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 7 13:18:39 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040107191839.GA13541@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 01:59:46PM -0500, Brian Chase wrote: > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > Does anyone know how uncommon the MicroVAX I is these days? > > They're fairly uncommon as VAXen go, I think mainly because so many > people opted to upgrade them to MicroVAX-II systems. I only know of > one or two people aside from myself who have a MicroVAX-I, and mine > doesn't have any OS loaded at the moment. I have one sitting in a closet and one sitting on my workbench at home. The spare is in an untested state, but the one sitting out boots uVMS 4.2 from its RD52. We used it as a final test for Qbus COMBOARDs (the initial test platform, an 11/03, is sitting on top of it). Software Results Corp. bought it new when they were first released (c. 1984?). They also bought another one that they did pay $17,000 to upgrade to a uVAX-II. Both of these have had the older, defective wiring harnesses replaced, one after stinking up the manufacturing area. It was quite charred when removed. One of the biggest limitations is the fact that they use Qbus memory and are limited to 4MB. In general, unless you have a particular fondness for them for their place in history, for "real" work, a uVAX-II is much more useful. OTOH, it's easy to pull the CPU boards, put them on a shelf, and reversibly "upgrade" a uVAX-I to a Micro-PDP. :-) (the other big limitation, at least to me, is the fact that the low-level format on disks attached to an RQDX1 is not compatible with RQDX3 and similar controllers like what's embedded in the uVAX-2000, or the Professional series). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 07-Jan-2004 19:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.7 F (-28.8 C) Windchill -56.9 F (-49.4 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.4 kts Grid 001 Barometer 687.6 mb (10341. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Jan 7 13:41:42 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <1073476036.16121.6.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200401062347.SAA28158@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1073476036.16121.6.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200401071943.OAA12643@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...Seagate 2G Barracuda...noise...] > Curious. Were there earlier and later models of those capacity > drives? There are lots of other 2G drives, some even from Seagate I think. There have been other Barracudas, not so noisy, though I think all the ones I've personally seen have been larger than 2G. For all I know it's possible that quiet 2G Barracudas exist, though I don't recall ever encountering one. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 7 14:08:16 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: E11 files question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, > Okay - pseudo-newbie question - I know this has been answered multiple > times - but damned if I can remember it and double-damned of I can find an > answer... > > > Where does one obtain the various .dsk, .tap, etc., files for E11? Well, normally, these would be the disk packs or magtapes or TK50 carts that you get when buying the stuff. In the hobby world, we would use image copies of those, so, byte-for-byte copies of those dists. Creating a new "disk" is fairly simple. When I usually do is I create an empty file for each possible disk drive, using DBit's PUTR tool. Those images I then copy for additional units (like, RD54 units 0 and 1, so, two copies of that file are needed) and then ZIP up the original, empty file for later cloning... its empty, zo gets compressed to almost zero... > FTP from somewheres? Toggle them in bit-by-bit using the "F" keys as > console switches? yeah, dude.. you go and toggle in that RSX11-M-PLUS 4.4 dist kit, and let us know when you're done :) *evil smile* Or, just contact any of the distr keepers here, off-list, and save yourself some time. > And while I understand the 'hobby use' version does not speak "SCSI > Tape" - does this also hold true for SCSI 9trk emulating a TU77, or > similar? Yes.. E11/demo doesn't speak ASPI, which means it cannot talk to SCSI-based tape devices, whatever kind. [see my comments in another message regarding SCSI command sets] I'll show you some stuff when I get up there. (with a SCSI based 9-track connected to my laptop *grin*) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 7 14:11:21 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <20040107191839.GA13541@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: 07 January 2004 19:19 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I > > another one that they did pay $17,000 to upgrade to a uVAX-II. Both of > these have had the older, defective wiring harnesses replaced, one after > stinking up the manufacturing area. It was quite charred when removed. What was defective about them? Having said that apparently this one was in use until retired a year or so ago. It says 'MicroVAX I' on the front but given that it's coming with a Tek screen I'm wondering if it's actually a VAXstation I....Hmm.....I'll find out next week :) > them for their place in history, for "real" work, a uVAX-II is much more > useful. OTOH, it's easy to pull the CPU boards, put them on a shelf, and > reversibly "upgrade" a uVAX-I to a Micro-PDP. :-) Heh. Fortunately I've already got an MVII that I put in a BA123 cab as well as a uPDP 11/73, so I'm covered on all corners. Hopefully an old customer of mine still has the uPDP 11/53 he promised me many moons ago......all I need now is a (spit) TK25 so I can have a nostalgic fiddle with MicroRSX :) My first programming project was converting software from RT11/CTS300 to MicroRSX back in 1985. > (the other big limitation, at least to me, is the fact that the low-level > format on disks attached to an RQDX1 is not compatible with RQDX3 and > similar controllers like what's embedded in the uVAX-2000, or the > Professional series). Oo - ta for that nugget.....that might've stung me if the drive in this machine proves to be toast..... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 7 14:13:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: 'Free to good home' In-Reply-To: <003201c3d552$ae70abc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 07 January 2004 19:16 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: 'Free to good home' > > > > Witchy wrote: > > > Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > I'd take it all in a jiffy if I had anywhere to keep it! > > > > I don't think it'll all fit in a jiffy :o) > > Wouldn't matter if it did - don't have room for > one of those either :-) Heh! I'm just pondering where I'm going to put this uVAX I, Microtan 65 and boxed NeXT slab and other stuff I hope to bring back from my travels next week! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 7 14:21:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: 3M EMT EPROM programmer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040107152119.00847e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went scrounging to day and found something that I don't recognize. It looks like it might be an EPROM programmer. Can anyone id this device? It's in a grey plastic box that looks like a tool box. The box measures about 11" x 6" x 5". Inside is a panel with elastimeric keys arranged in a 12 x 4 matrix. Above it is a ZIF socket with a MC 68766 installed. The 68766 is a 8 x 8k EPROM and is supposed to be Motorola's equivelent of the 2364. There is a built in power cord with a UK style power plug on it and a second cable that has a DB-25F connector on it. Inside the lid is a label that says "Refer to 3M EMY 9140 Field Service Handbook, Section 3, Subsection D, paragraph 1.0, for operating instructions. I searched the net for 3M EMT 9140 and similar strings but didn't find anything. Anyone know what this might be for? Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 7 14:23:22 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401071943.OAA12643@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, der Mouse wrote: > There are lots of other 2G drives, some even from Seagate I think. > There have been other Barracudas, not so noisy, though I think all the > ones I've personally seen have been larger than 2G. Barracudas came in 1.6" and 1" form factors. The 1.6 ones made lots of singing, whiny noise.. the 1" ones (the -L or -LP ones) didn't. Also, DEC used a lot of 2G disks from the HAWK line, whuch were 5400rpm drives, contrary to the Barra's 7200rpm. Sun pretty much only used Hawk's- also, because the Barra's got too hot in the lunchbox cases :) > For all I know it's possible that quiet 2G Barracudas exist, though I > don't recall ever encountering one. I havea lead to about 500 of em. Just gotta close that deal, and go get em... all -LP ones. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 7 14:26:17 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <003101c3d552$73e3cf50$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] > Sent: 07 January 2004 19:14 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: MicroVAX I > > > > 500 mile round trip though....meh..... > > Well worth rescuing. Then you can spend some > time looking for the reputed "user-mode crasher" > instruction that would halt the machine when > executed even in unprivileged user mode! If I can call it from DIBOL and I have a spare few days I can have a go :) This is of course assuming DIBOL 4.2 will be happy running on VMS 5.4 or earlier; it's the only version I've got I think. > I've got a few boards from one - possibly enough > to make up one (if they work!). But even inside > DEC, most of them were upgraded. That says a lot for it doesn't it! I'll let everyone know next week what state the machine is in once I get it back to Witchy Towers. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 7 14:26:27 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: E11 files question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040107202627.GA15708@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 09:08:16PM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I'll show you some stuff when I get up there. > > (with a SCSI based 9-track connected to my laptop *grin*) That's why I bought an Alpha server a couple of years ago... it came with a TSZ07 - 180MHz Alpha, 384MB RAM, several SCSI trays... all for $50, less than the shipping on the tape drive alone. I got it home and the first thing I did was test the tape drive with my Dell P-133 laptop (Linux)... it was kinda wierd to see the size differential between the CPU and the peripheral, but it all worked fine the first time, no funny stuff. I just need a good way to slurp up VMS backup tapes now. Perhaps with SIMH and VMS. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 07-Jan-2004 20:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.4 F (-28.0 C) Windchill -51.1 F (-46.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.9 kts Grid 007 Barometer 687.6 mb (10341. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 7 14:29:26 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <20040107191839.GA13541@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040107202926.GB15708@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 08:11:21PM -0000, Witchy wrote: > > another one that they did pay $17,000 to upgrade to a uVAX-II. Both of > > these have had the older, defective wiring harnesses replaced, one after > > stinking up the manufacturing area. It was quite charred when removed. > > What was defective about them? Having said that apparently this one was in > use until retired a year or so ago. It says 'MicroVAX I' on the front but > given that it's coming with a Tek screen I'm wondering if it's actually a > VAXstation I....Hmm.....I'll find out next week :) There's one of two harnesses under the air diverter in the drive-bay area... The old ones have press-to-fit contacts and the body of the connectors are made from an amber resin. The newer ones are crimp-ons and are in a white nylon-like shell. The older ones can't take the current the uVAX draws, and begin to oxidize. Oxidation causes resistance which causes heat... You _will_ want to replace that harness if it's the older type. It's a fire hazard. This goes for _all_ BA-23 cabs, BTW, not just uVAX-Is. Those are just the right era, thus, a concern. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 07-Jan-2004 20:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.9 F (-28.3 C) Windchill -52.9 F (-47.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.3 kts Grid 002 Barometer 687.5 mb (10345. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 7 14:23:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <1073477149.30437.8.camel@pluto> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Jan 7, 4 12:05:29 pm Message-ID: > Over here in glorious sunny Scotland, most of the geeky computer > collectors tend to run around in mid-to-late-80s, very high spec cars. > The reason being, they're very cheap to buy when the electrickery goes I keep as far from electronics in cars as I can. Too hard to fix at the roadside, and the official manuals never contain really useful information -- they assume you don't have a 'scope and logic analyser. Therefore you're restricted to swaping darn expensive modules. > wrong (or in the case of my beloved Citroens, the hydraulic suspension), > but fairly easy to fix if you have the right sort of mind. On the other hand I _love_ Citroen hydraulics. My dream car, if I ever learn to drive is a DS. My father has a BX, and I've spent many enjoyable hours fixing it. Actually, it's been very reliable -- I've just changed the clutch for the first time in 10 years (one of his previous cars needed a new clutch every 2 years!). The hydraulics have proved to be a non-problem -- I've had to replace the return pipes (they're 'rubber' and they failed after about 9 years), the odd seal, and one metal pipe that was mangled by an idiot garage after an accident repair. The system is really easy to work on when you get used to it (and if you have the diagrams in the official manual -- I do!) -tony From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 7 14:38:33 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <20040107202926.GB15708@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:dickset@amanda.spole.gov] > Sent: 07 January 2004 20:29 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I > > There's one of two harnesses under the air diverter in the > drive-bay area... > The old ones have press-to-fit contacts and the body of the connectors are > made from an amber resin. The newer ones are crimp-ons and are in a white > nylon-like shell. The older ones can't take the current the uVAX draws, > and begin to oxidize. Oxidation causes resistance which causes heat... Ah, right. I've only ever seen the later type shell in my travels so I'll make sure to check when I get the beast. cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 7 14:42:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:14 2005 Subject: What are these for? 24 Mb disks Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Another of today's finds. Two "Verbatim 24Mb High Capacity Flexible Disk Servowritten and Verified 78 Sectors per Track 666 TPI". These have a hard plastic shell with a shutter. I thought at first they were MO disks but they're thinner plus the capacity is a lot less. I haven't figured out how to release the shutter so I don't know what the media looks like. One disk is label "Restricted Rights Encore Computer Corporation". It used to have somehting typed on the label but it's all faded now and it's too faint to read. I've never seen these before. Does anyone know any more about them? Joe From shirker at mooli.org.uk Wed Jan 7 14:45:33 2004 From: shirker at mooli.org.uk (Shirker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Citizen HQP-40 24-pin dot matrix printer - FTGH Message-ID: Hi all, I have the above printer - it seems to have 'issues' as the "paper out" LED is always halfway lit and it will never come on-line. I've tried it with parallel and serial, no luck with either, it just doesn't want to know. It has tractor feed (80 columns). Strangely, the self-test does work OK, and the print seems to be fine quality. If this is of any use to anyone, you can have it for the cost of shipping (or come and collect). Item is located in West Yorkshire, UK. After two weeks, it goes in the bin - I haven't the space to keep it any longer. Regards, Ed. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 7 14:51:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <20040107202926.GB15708@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040107191839.GA13541@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040107155133.00843760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:29 PM 1/7/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 08:11:21PM -0000, Witchy wrote: >> > another one that they did pay $17,000 to upgrade to a uVAX-II. Both of >> > these have had the older, defective wiring harnesses replaced, one after >> > stinking up the manufacturing area. It was quite charred when removed. >> >> What was defective about them? Having said that apparently this one was in >> use until retired a year or so ago. It says 'MicroVAX I' on the front but >> given that it's coming with a Tek screen I'm wondering if it's actually a >> VAXstation I....Hmm.....I'll find out next week :) > >There's one of two harnesses under the air diverter in the drive-bay area... >The old ones have press-to-fit contacts and the body of the connectors are >made from an amber resin. The newer ones are crimp-ons and are in a white >nylon-like shell. The older ones can't take the current the uVAX draws, >and begin to oxidize. Oxidation causes resistance which causes heat... > >You _will_ want to replace that harness if it's the older type. It's a >fire hazard. This goes for _all_ BA-23 cabs, BTW, not just uVAX-Is. >Those are just the right era, thus, a concern. In the old days, the factory would almost certainly pay for the replacement harness and installation since it's a fire hazard. AND it's likely they will STILL pay for it . I helped a friend of mine pick up an old SGI Reality Engine II a couple of years ago. After checking it he found that it had five original style PSUs in it and that they were prone to catching fire. Even though it was an old machine SGI came to his house and replaced the PSUs with five brand new ones at no charge. It turns out that the PSUs (especially NEW ones) are worth CONSIDERABLY more than what he paid for the entire machine. Joe From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 7 14:49:20 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: re R.Stricklin msg from Aug 3rd - Everex Cube References: <3FFC247C.9080406@snet.net> Message-ID: <05ba01c3d55f$bf6ff220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Pete, Reply directly to the poster by manually cutting/ pasting his address. The list is usually what is automatically selected (as here) and is wrong. Good Luck, John A. From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 7 15:04:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I References: Message-ID: <05f001c3d561$d8b52500$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> To keep it short, yeah, rare. FWIW It may be the slowest VAX ever created* (or, the 725?). The essence of BA23 based system collecting nowadays seems to be to have the logo'ed power switch and the unique cards. The rest of the system (except the software) is nonunique and interchangeable AFAIK. *I have a vague recollection that the uVI chipset was created by DEC proprietary in-house fabrication(?) techniques... Upon seeing the results they then consulted with outside chip fabricators for the uVII. John A. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 7 15:10:40 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040107155133.00843760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: 07 January 2004 20:52 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I > > old SGI Reality Engine II a couple of years ago. After checking > it he found > that it had five original style PSUs in it and that they were prone to > catching fire. Even though it was an old machine SGI came to his house and > replaced the PSUs with five brand new ones at no charge. It turns out that > the PSUs (especially NEW ones) are worth CONSIDERABLY more than what he > paid for the entire machine. Heh, but could you imagine HP coming to Witchy Towers to replace a wiring harness they probably have no stocks of in a machine they almost certainly have no knowlege of these days? :) Even my local Digital office as-was wouldn't have a stock of those.... cheers w From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 7 15:16:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: FREE! PC III portable computer Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040107161623.00852e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked this up today but it doesn't seem to work. If anyone wants it for the costs of shipping drop me a line BEFORE Saturday. It's a lunchbox type portable computer with a keyboard that detachs from one side. It has a red gas plasma screen, a 286-10 CPU and appears to have 1Mb of RAM. It has a hard drive (size unknown) and a 5 1/4" FD. There is a slot for a 3 1/2" FD. There are 8 16 bit ISA slots in it but some of them are inaccessable. There are five accessable slots but three of them are used. The screen appears to work but no text appears on it when I power it on. There's no drive activity so I think it has a POST problem. I put in a POST card and it sequencies through a lot of POST tests then starts showing 010, 000, 010, 000, etc. But it does appear to go through most of the POSTs I'm guessing that it's mostly functional. I don't know what BIOS it uses so I don't know what the codes mean. It may just need the CMOS batteries replaced or the DIP switches on the display card may have been monkeyed with and may not be set right. It's also missing two keys (F1 and - on the keypad). There's no name on it but a couple of the cards were made by Orchid so that might be the manufacturer. It's located in Orlando Fla (32765). Anybody want it? Joe From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Jan 7 15:27:47 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Burroughs BU4000-II Tape deck References: <3FFBFF93.8DCEEC9B@telenet.net> <20040107183333.GA10895@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <003201c3d565$19167060$6800a8c0@athlon> Info please. Spotted in a local second-hand place looking almost lonely. Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 7 16:06:06 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: OT: Unix 'dump' question Message-ID: Is there a way to get a text list of what files are on a tape that has multiple backups in the Unix 'dump' format short of restoring the tape? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 7 16:07:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Citizen HQP-40 24-pin dot matrix printer - FTGH In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Shirker wrote: > After two weeks, it goes in the bin - I haven't the space to keep it any > longer. Isn't there a local school or university with an engineering program that can use the printer for robotic parts? They have lots of gears, pullies, cams, and other useful bits. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 7 16:08:52 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: OT: Unix 'dump' question Message-ID: <0401072208.AA03617@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Is there a way to get a text list of what files are on a tape that has > multiple backups in the Unix 'dump' format short of restoring the tape? restore has a t keyletter just like tar does. MS From patrick at evocative.com Wed Jan 7 16:11:33 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Unix 'dump' question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Is there a way to get a text list of what files are on a tape > that has multiple backups in the Unix 'dump' format short of > restoring the tape? > > Zane Zane, Your "restore" command may/should have a -t option, which would list the dump contents only. Patrick From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 7 16:00:36 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net> Wow Tony, you fix cars but don't drive? Where in Europe are you? Is everything really that packed together that you can walk, ride a bike, or take a bus? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tony Duell wrote: > On the other hand I _love_ Citroen hydraulics. My dream car, if I ever > learn to drive is a DS. My father has a BX, and I've spent many enjoyable > hours fixing it. Actually, it's been very reliable -- I've just changed > the clutch for the first time in 10 years (one of his previous cars > needed a new clutch every 2 years!). The hydraulics have proved to be a > non-problem -- I've had to replace the return pipes (they're 'rubber' and > they failed after about 9 years), the odd seal, and one metal pipe that > was mangled by an idiot garage after an accident repair. The system is > really easy to work on when you get used to it (and if you have the > diagrams in the official manual -- I do!) > > -tony From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 7 16:33:17 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: E11 files question Message-ID: <0401072233.AA03667@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Still gives a dummy page saying "This site is not yet configured, please try again later." It worked before. Would you pleeeese put that site back online? Does anyone have a mirror of what that site used to be? There used to be sooo much useful documentation there! MS From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 7 16:57:00 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: CompuPro docs... In-Reply-To: <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net> Message-ID: I posted the Customization Guide for Concurrent DOS 8-16 to the retroarchive.org site yesterday. It's an OCR'd and proofread PDF file. I expect to have the installation guide up in the next day or so. enjoy! g. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 7 16:51:04 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Unix 'dump' question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Your "restore" command may/should have a -t option, which would list the >dump contents only. > >Patrick Cool! I didn't think of that (I've only used "restore" a couple times, and it's been years). Next question, does it pull it's info from the front of the dump image, or does it have to read through the whole image? Yes, I have a lot to get lists from :^( Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 7 16:57:09 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: E11 files question In-Reply-To: <0401072233.AA03667@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > > Still gives a dummy page saying "This site is not yet configured, please try > again later." It worked before. Would you pleeeese put that site back online? Michael, I already *told* you (twice!) that it is down on a crash, and I cant fix it until I get back there, which will be end of the month. Geez. > Does anyone have a mirror of what that site used to be? There used to be sooo > much useful documentation there! Assuming it is just the machine that died, and not the disks or the DLT backups, it will be back. --f From bear at typewritten.org Wed Jan 7 17:03:42 2004 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: re R.Stricklin msg from Aug 3rd - Everex Cube In-Reply-To: <3FFC247C.9080406@snet.net> References: <3FFC247C.9080406@snet.net> Message-ID: On Jan 7, 2004, at 7:23 AM, phufnagel wrote: > Just happened to be browsing on the Everex Step Cube, > 486-EISA, and saw msg from R Stricklin looking for EISA > config utility. I have them if you still need them. > Have to xfer them from 5-1/4 to 3.5, but I could put them > up for download if you don't have them yet. Pete--- Thanks for following up. I could still use another copy of that software. Somebody dug up a copy and mailed it to me a couple months ago, but it's an older version. I wouldn't mind having an extra copy either. Download would be fine, though if it would be easier for you to just send the disks to me via USPS that would also be fine. I have the capability to read them, no sweat. ok bear From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Jan 7 17:17:17 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: What are these for? 24 Mb disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401071817.17774.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 07 January 2004 15:42, Joe wrote: > Another of today's finds. Two "Verbatim 24Mb High Capacity Flexible > Disk Servowritten and Verified 78 Sectors per Track 666 TPI". These > have a hard plastic shell with a shutter. I thought at first they > were MO disks but they're thinner plus the capacity is a lot less. I > haven't figured out how to release the shutter so I don't know what > the media looks like. One disk is label "Restricted Rights Encore > Computer Corporation". It used to have somehting typed on the label > but it's all faded now and it's too faint to read. > > I've never seen these before. Does anyone know any more about them? > > Joe Encore used to make terminal servers - called 'Annex' - which seem to be impossible to find boot images for. If you can find a way to read that disk, it probably has drivers if it's still intact. It'd be useful to me, amoung others I'm sure. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 7 17:46:13 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Free Stuff list. References: <064f01c3cfd6$397621a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <070001c3d578$7020dea0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Some free items to the list: Unless I let you know otherwise, everything is in pristine, working condition. I'll try to add a few modelnumbers in just a little while. Mac II (first of the new breed) Ikegami HiRes Mono monitor for MacII MAC Scanner MAC LaserWriter, LS I think PS/1 -two piece (the one with the PSU in the monitor) SCSI external enclosures (3) PS/2 m50 MicroVAX 3400 (goes to friends, etc.) DEC VRT16-DA monitor. Televideo terminal (a few broken keycaps) John A. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Jan 7 18:13:39 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: What are these for? 24 Mb disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040107190818.0244c1a0@mail.n.ml.org> You found Satan's (Santa's) Accounting Logs on disk! lol. Well, with track 666, nothing good would come from that, grin. Possible that it may be to a proprietary setup for corporations? I heard back in the late 80's a few companies were getting overly paranoid about piracy / corporate espionage and hired a firm from CT to make a proprietary removable disc drive and key system that would only operate if the two were together and matched up. never actually saw it though, just rumors and stories from old IBM contractors and the like. -John Boffemmyer IV At 03:42 PM 1/7/2004, you wrote: > Another of today's finds. Two "Verbatim 24Mb High Capacity Flexible Disk >Servowritten and Verified 78 Sectors per Track 666 TPI". These have a hard >plastic shell with a shutter. I thought at first they were MO disks but >they're thinner plus the capacity is a lot less. I haven't figured out how >to release the shutter so I don't know what the media looks like. One disk >is label "Restricted Rights Encore Computer Corporation". It used to have >somehting typed on the label but it's all faded now and it's too faint to >read. > > I've never seen these before. Does anyone know any more about them? > > Joe ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Jan 7 18:18:21 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Free Stuff list. In-Reply-To: <070001c3d578$7020dea0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <064f01c3cfd6$397621a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <070001c3d578$7020dea0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040107191650.0244bdc8@mail.n.ml.org> Oooh, SCSI Enclosures, can never get too many of them. I'd like more info John =) -John Boffemmyer IV At 06:46 PM 1/7/2004, you wrote: >Some free items to the list: >Unless I let you know otherwise, everything >is in pristine, working condition. >I'll try to add a few modelnumbers in just a little >while. > > Mac II (first of the new breed) > Ikegami HiRes Mono monitor for MacII > MAC Scanner > MAC LaserWriter, LS I think > PS/1 -two piece (the one with the PSU in the monitor) > SCSI external enclosures (3) > PS/2 m50 > MicroVAX 3400 (goes to friends, etc.) > DEC VRT16-DA monitor. > Televideo terminal (a few broken keycaps) > >John A. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From classiccmp at microvax.org Wed Jan 7 18:42:48 2004 From: classiccmp at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <20040107104005.3759cc34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200401061119.06131.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <20040107104005.3759cc34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200401080042.48472.classiccmp@microvax.org> On Wednesday 07 Jan 2004 9:40 am, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:08:15 +0100 (MET) > > "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > such as the KZQSA. Which, if memory serves me right, was just an NCR > > 5340 or 5380 atop a Qbus bus interface.. > > Maybe I should have written somthing like this in my first mail. > AFAIK the KZQSA is "dump", it doesn't support (T)MSCP and has no > embedded processor like the KFQSA or RQDXn. It is only of use in a VAX > 4000 QBus machine, as only this machines have the needed ROM code for > booting from it. So this thing is of no real use on a PDP-11 or an older > VAX and it doesn't fit into a BA23 or BA123. (Even when you remove the > SBox handle. The connectors are to big for the smaler card spaceing in a > BA23 or BA123.) It may be possible to attach and use tapes, CDROMs and > even disks to it. But DEC intended it as tape or CDROM controler, not > for disks. Hang on hang on, back up here - the KZQSA is bootable if it's used in say, a 4000/200, yes? Wow, I turned one down a few months ago because i'd heard it wasn't bootable and was only supported under VMS. If it's at least bootable then i'll go and chase it up and have a fiddle! alex/melt From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 7 18:54:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Free Stuff list. In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040107191650.0244bdc8@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Oooh, SCSI Enclosures, can never get too many of them. I'd like more info > John =) I get these in a lot. If anyone is interested in any then contact me privately. I'll let them go very cheap. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 7 18:55:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: What are these for? 24 Mb disks In-Reply-To: <200401071817.17774.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040107195547.00861640@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:17 PM 1/7/04 -0500, Pat wrote: >On Wednesday 07 January 2004 15:42, Joe wrote: >> Another of today's finds. Two "Verbatim 24Mb High Capacity Flexible >> Disk Servowritten and Verified 78 Sectors per Track 666 TPI". These >> have a hard plastic shell with a shutter. I thought at first they >> were MO disks but they're thinner plus the capacity is a lot less. I >> haven't figured out how to release the shutter so I don't know what >> the media looks like. One disk is label "Restricted Rights Encore >> Computer Corporation". It used to have somehting typed on the label >> but it's all faded now and it's too faint to read. >> >> I've never seen these before. Does anyone know any more about them? >> >> Joe > >Encore used to make terminal servers - called 'Annex' - which seem to be >impossible to find boot images for. If you can find a way to read >that disk, it probably has drivers if it's still intact. It'd be >useful to me, amoung others I'm sure. > OK then why don't you send me your address and I'll send you the disks. You're more like to find a drive for them than I am. I found these with a pile of gutted VME computers (but I didn't notice the brand name of the computers). I don't know if they came from one of those computers or not but the next time I go back there I'll look at them closer and see if the drive might still be there. Hopefully the drive used a SCSI interface or something standard. FWIW the *only* thing that I did find in the computers was a PCI/VME adapter card made by Bit3. Joe From a.philpott at auckland.ac.nz Wed Jan 7 19:03:11 2004 From: a.philpott at auckland.ac.nz (Andy Philpott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: TK50 Message-ID: <3FFCAC4F.98BBF78B@auckland.ac.nz> Hi: I have some Vax TK50 tapes that I want to read. Do you know of anyone in NZ who can do this for me? Andy -- Professor Andy Philpott Department of Engineering Science University of Auckland Private Bag 92019 Auckland New Zealand Phone: 64 9 373 7599 Ext 88394 Fax: 64 9 373 7468 http://www.esc.auckland.ac.nz/Philpott From KParker at workcover.com Wed Jan 7 18:52:52 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Free Stuff list. Message-ID: <3A9F9A4AE5E0D311865700508B97404D0C31E9AE@ex1.internal.workcover.sa.gov.au> Where are you located +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] Sent: Thursday, 8 January 2004 10:16 AM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Free Stuff list. Some free items to the list: Unless I let you know otherwise, everything is in pristine, working condition. I'll try to add a few modelnumbers in just a little while. Mac II (first of the new breed) Ikegami HiRes Mono monitor for MacII MAC Scanner MAC LaserWriter, LS I think PS/1 -two piece (the one with the PSU in the monitor) SCSI external enclosures (3) PS/2 m50 MicroVAX 3400 (goes to friends, etc.) DEC VRT16-DA monitor. Televideo terminal (a few broken keycaps) John A. ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From patrick at evocative.com Wed Jan 7 19:06:01 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Unix 'dump' question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Your "restore" command may/should have a -t option, which would list the > >dump contents only. > > > >Patrick > > Cool! I didn't think of that (I've only used "restore" a couple > times, and it's been years). Next question, does it pull it's > info from the front of the dump image, or does it have to read > through the whole image? Yes, I have a lot to get lists from :^( Zane, that I don't know for sure, but I believe you may be forced to read a good bit of each tape/image. For the most part I "dump" to holding disks rather than tape, so the seek times aren't really an issue. I only dump the images to tape for archival storage, and when I need to restore from an archive, I fetch the image from tape to the holding disk. Saves wear and tear on the archive tapes, I suppose, too. --Patrick From fire at dls.net Wed Jan 7 20:14:13 2004 From: fire at dls.net (fire@dls.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVax II, KZQSA, RZ74 Message-ID: <20040108021413.84039968510@demolition.dls.net> From fire at dls.net Wed Jan 7 20:17:16 2004 From: fire at dls.net (fire@dls.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVax II, KZQSA, RZ74 Message-ID: <20040108021716.544F9968510@demolition.dls.net> I have read all the posts very carefully over the last few days. Because Vaxen are not my specialty I have to rely on other people's expertise in purchasing hardware. There seemed to be some debate as to whether the KZQSA can be used or not for hard drives. Has anyone else reading this list managed to conclude whether this will work or not? Will it fit in a BA23 cabnet? Will an RZ74 work with the MicroVax II if the board fits and is suitably configured? Thank you for a very interesting read about older DEC equipment. Bradley Slavik From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 7 21:19:17 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe > > > > old SGI Reality Engine II a couple of years ago. After checking it he > > found that it had five original style PSUs in it and that they were > > prone to catching fire. Even though it was an old machine SGI came to > > his house and replaced the PSUs with five brand new ones at no charge. > > It turns out that the PSUs (especially NEW ones) are worth > > CONSIDERABLY more than what he paid for the entire machine. > > Heh, but could you imagine HP coming to Witchy Towers to replace a > wiring harness they probably have no stocks of in a machine they almost > certainly have no knowlege of these days? :) Even my local Digital > office as-was wouldn't have a stock of those.... My BA123 still has the original harnesses, and I've been wondering about replacing them too. Are they actually obtainable at all these days (for low cost), or are they something that I should just assemble myself? I haven't yet really spent a lot of time on it, as the power supply needs some work (I suspect the filter caps have gone bad due to age, and I haven't had time to have a go at it with a 'scope). -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 7 21:21:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jan 7, 4 05:00:36 pm Message-ID: > > Wow Tony, you fix cars but don't drive? Where in Europe are you? Is Yep.... One day I really must start learning... > everything really that packed together that you can walk, ride a bike, > or take a bus? I'm in London, and I find the public transport (particularly buses) to be quite useable at off-peak times. OK, it's not too convenient if you want to bring home a PDP11 (although I _have_ carried 19" rack units on buses :-)), but it's possible... -tony From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 7 22:23:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Used SCSI enclosures available Message-ID: In light of recent requests, I gathered up the SCSI enclosures that I have laying around. Here's what I have off-hand: (3) Plastic enclosures with CN50 connectors (2) have 540MB drives (1) has a 6x read/2x write CD-RW drive (2) Metal enclosures with CN50 connectors (1) has a CD-ROM drive (1) has a 44MB SyQuest removeable carthridge drive (1) Metal enclosure with HD68 connector - contains a Seagate Barracuda ST34371W hard drive (2) Plastic enclosures with HD50 connectors - each contain an NEC MultiSpin 3X CD-ROM drive Please refer to this site for the connector types: http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/scsi_connecters.html I would want $5 for each enclosure. If you want the drive inside, add an additional $5. Otherwise I'll remove the drive to make it lighter for shipping. Shipping additional. PayPal makes the most sense. Let me know if there's any interest, of if there is a specific connector type you're looking for and I'll watch out for it. I also have a bunch of SCSI cables available. They're used, but I'll test them and sell them for far less than their typical going price. Inquire. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 8 00:17:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Fw: Old PDP11 stuff available Message-ID: <014001c3d5af$1a69a4b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Please contact the owner directly. Enjoy! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth A. Jesser" To: Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:06 PM Subject: Old PDP11 stuff available > I have a number of LSI11 boards (1102's, i1123's memory boards, etc), > backplanes, cases (DEC and 3rd party), RX02 (I think that's the number - > dual 8" floppy drive), VT100 and a 4 ft tall stack of filled floppy > cases (RT11 & RSX11 stuff). > > It's all available to the first person who wants it. I live on Long > Island, NY (Plainview, NY) and can make the equipment available for > pick-up most evenings and weekends. > > I've owned most of the above for over 20 years and would like to see it > get a good home. > > Thank you, > > Kenneth A. Jesser > > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 8 00:20:28 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: FS: 2400 baud modems Message-ID: OK, for those that were not turned away by the subject line... I have a small quantity of Western Electric 205B1 2400 baud modems available. These were designed in 1961 for use mainly on encrypted voice circuits, and were state of the art for at least a few years. They are 8U open rack (23 inch) chassis with a bunch of cards with typical "alien" looking WE transistors and discrete parts. My phone geek friend says they probably are not RS-232, so don't get any ideas. These specific units belonged to NASA, and were installed at Goddard Space Flight Center. I am not sure if they work - I am waiting for my phone geek friend to play with his. Maybe I should send him two... Any interest? Make offers. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tom_hughes at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 7 20:47:18 2004 From: tom_hughes at sbcglobal.net (tom_hughes@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: mike maginnis Message-ID: Hello sir, I am a friend of Mr. Mike Maginnis and would like to re-establish contact with him. I would like any information (i.e. email address etc.) which could assist if you can provide it. My name is Tom Hughes; please feel free to confer with Michael before passing on this info if you wish. Thanks very much. Tom Hughes San Diego, CA From maya2blue at juno.com Wed Jan 7 21:23:04 2004 From: maya2blue at juno.com (Harve B Thorn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: Apple Corvus Constellation III v3 info? Message-ID: <20040107.212305.-3692137.3.maya2blue@juno.com> Greetings... I have a dozen Apple IIe's "Appletalked" onto a Corvus hard drive.(Corvus Omnidrive SN 398-GM0230-P Rev C --- Mod 74 MB7 - Omninet) but do not have any documentation at all for the Corvus... HD Software is Constellation III V3. No documentation for that either! Right now, everything works just fine. The HD is loaded with mostly MECC educ software. I have a filing cabinet of Apple software and would like to add some of it to the HD.. I would like to dump some of the software that is presently on the Corvus. Appreciate hearing from anyone with any info about this drive or the HD software, or from anyone that might know how to manage the Corvus. Many tks any help! Harve Harve Thorn Fayetteville, AR ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 8 02:05:10 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVax II, KZQSA, RZ74 In-Reply-To: <20040108021716.544F9968510@demolition.dls.net> Message-ID: <001b01c3d5be$230134d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > hardware. There seemed to be some debate > as to whether the KZQSA can be used or not for hard drives. > Has anyone else reading this list > managed to conclude whether this will work or not? Will it > fit in a BA23 cabnet? Will an RZ74 work > with the MicroVax II if the board fits and is suitably configured? You can use the KZQSA for disks but it was never supported or recommended because it was too slow to be useful (or at least OpenVMS felt that way). AFAIK, it does work. Whether you can boot off it or not depends on your systems console firmware. All the KZQSAs I ever saw came with the S-box style handles. This means that it will not work in a BA23 or BA123 case. It was designed for the BA200 series. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 8 02:06:57 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <05f001c3d561$d8b52500$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001c01c3d5be$62ebd0f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > *I have a vague recollection that the uVI chipset was created > by DEC proprietary in-house fabrication(?) techniques... > Upon seeing the results they then consulted with outside > chip fabricators for the uVII. The uVI may have been the first chip fabricated inhouse, but I would have thought that the uVII and follow-ons were done fabbed inhouse (but I don't remember when they built the first fab). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 8 03:07:27 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:00:36 EST." <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200401080907.JAA15078@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Chad Fernandez said: > Wow Tony, you fix cars but don't drive? Where in Europe are you? Is > everything really that packed together that you can walk, ride a bike, > or take a bus? I don't drive, but I fix cars too - in fact I've built one from scratch! I live on Merseyside and public transport works qiuite well (I *have* to say that - I worked for Local Govt transport!). Anyway all my friends have cars :-) I used to ride a motorcycle though, still got 3 engines, 2 gearboxes and a frame etc. somewhere - Ariel single-cylinder if anyone's wants to know. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 8 04:10:00 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <200401080042.48472.classiccmp@microvax.org> References: <200401061119.06131.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <20040107104005.3759cc34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200401080042.48472.classiccmp@microvax.org> Message-ID: <20040108111000.4b5a4b5b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:42:48 +0000 meltie wrote: > Hang on hang on, back up here - the KZQSA is bootable if it's used in > say, a 4000/200, yes? I don't know. Maybe it can boot only from tape or CDROM or only on later VAX 4000 machines or... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 8 06:38:59 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf > Sent: 08 January 2004 03:19 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: MicroVAX I > > > Heh, but could you imagine HP coming to Witchy Towers to replace a > > wiring harness they probably have no stocks of in a machine they almost > > certainly have no knowlege of these days? :) Even my local Digital > > office as-was wouldn't have a stock of those.... > > My BA123 still has the original harnesses, and I've been wondering about > replacing them too. Are they actually obtainable at all these days (for > low cost), or are they something that I should just assemble myself? I > haven't yet really spent a lot of time on it, as the power supply needs > some work (I suspect the filter caps have gone bad due to age, and I > haven't had time to have a go at it with a 'scope). I can imagine a dark corner of an old DEC warehouse still may have some, but you'd probably have more difficulty in finding someone who knows where they are! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 8 06:56:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <200401080907.JAA15078@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <"Your message of Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:00:36 EST." <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040108075659.008479e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:07 AM 1/8/04 +0000, Stan Barr wrote: >Hi, > >Chad Fernandez said: > >> Wow Tony, you fix cars but don't drive? Where in Europe are you? Is >> everything really that packed together that you can walk, ride a bike, >> or take a bus? > >I don't drive, but I fix cars too - in fact I've built one from scratch! >I live on Merseyside and public transport works qiuite well (I *have* to >say that - I worked for Local Govt transport!). Anyway all my friends >have cars :-) > >I used to ride a motorcycle though, still got 3 engines, 2 gearboxes >and a frame etc. somewhere - Ariel single-cylinder if anyone's >wants to know. An Ariel???? How old is that thing? I haven't heard of an Ariel in AT LEAST 30 years. I still have a 1972 Ossa Stiletto and 1980 something Honda 500 but I seldom ride them any more. Traffic is just too crazy her in Orlando. Plenty of cars in the familty. Just went out and bought a new Hyundai Elantra for my son two weeks ago. Bought cars for both the other kids and my OL has one and I have a truck. Joe From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 8 07:43:22 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040108075659.008479e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <"Your message of Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:00:36 EST." <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net> <3.0.6.32.20040108075659.008479e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FFD5E7A.40501@internet1.net> Now This is Cool.... somebody on a non-motorcycle list that know what an Ossa is! I just bought a pair of Ossas a week ago. I bought an 74 SDR and a 75 Phantom. The SDR is pretty much complete, but does need work. The Phantom was ridden pretty hard and could really use a full restoration. I also have a 68/69 Pioneer that I took apart when I was 16. I'm just starting to buy parts for it now, and hope to have it ridable this summer. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Joe wrote: > I still have a 1972 Ossa Stiletto and 1980 something Honda 500 but I > seldom ride them any more. Traffic is just too crazy her in Orlando. Plenty > of cars in the family. Just went out and bought a new Hyundai Elantra for > my son two weeks ago. Bought cars for both the other kids and my OL has one > and I have a truck. > > Joe From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jan 8 08:05:11 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net> Message-ID: Somehow, I thought a RouteMaster was more tony's style... On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Wow Tony, you fix cars but don't drive? Where in Europe are you? Is > everything really that packed together that you can walk, ride a bike, > or take a bus? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Tony Duell wrote: > > On the other hand I _love_ Citroen hydraulics. My dream car, if I ever > > learn to drive is a DS. My father has a BX, and I've spent many enjoyable > > hours fixing it. Actually, it's been very reliable -- I've just changed > > the clutch for the first time in 10 years (one of his previous cars > > needed a new clutch every 2 years!). The hydraulics have proved to be a > > non-problem -- I've had to replace the return pipes (they're 'rubber' and > > they failed after about 9 years), the odd seal, and one metal pipe that > > was mangled by an idiot garage after an accident repair. The system is > > really easy to work on when you get used to it (and if you have the > > diagrams in the official manual -- I do!) > > > > -tony > > > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jan 8 08:13:18 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <3FFD5E7A.40501@internet1.net> Message-ID: And, if you put all those bits in a big wooden crate, would it be an Ossuary? On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Now This is Cool.... somebody on a non-motorcycle list that know what an > Ossa is! I just bought a pair of Ossas a week ago. I bought an 74 SDR > and a 75 Phantom. The SDR is pretty much complete, but does need work. > The Phantom was ridden pretty hard and could really use a full > restoration. I also have a 68/69 Pioneer that I took apart when I was > 16. I'm just starting to buy parts for it now, and hope to have it > ridable this summer. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > > Joe wrote: > > I still have a 1972 Ossa Stiletto and 1980 something Honda 500 but I > > seldom ride them any more. Traffic is just too crazy her in Orlando. Plenty > > of cars in the family. Just went out and bought a new Hyundai Elantra for > > my son two weeks ago. Bought cars for both the other kids and my OL has one > > and I have a truck. > > > > Joe > > > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cctech at retro.co.za Thu Jan 8 08:24:37 2004 From: cctech at retro.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: DDC BUS-65517 1553 card Message-ID: <200401081424.i08EOQIE009350@ccii.co.za> Hi all OK, so I have three of these cards (DDC BUS-65517) but no software or any other info. First time I've seen triaxial BNC connectors :-) So, how do I make it work? Wouter www.retro.co.za From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Jan 8 09:23:11 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: KZQSA and disks, was Re: MicroVax II question In-Reply-To: <20040108111000.4b5a4b5b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200401061119.06131.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <200401080042.48472.classiccmp@microvax.org> <20040108111000.4b5a4b5b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200401080723.11411.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Hey guys, we discussed this last week in detail... Yes, the KZQSA CAN boot CDROM and HDD from VAX 4000 series. I've used them on both a 4000/300 and 4000/600. Lyle On Thursday 08 January 2004 02:10, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 00:42:48 +0000 > > meltie wrote: > > Hang on hang on, back up here - the KZQSA is bootable if it's used in > > say, a 4000/200, yes? > > I don't know. Maybe it can boot only from tape or CDROM or only on later > VAX 4000 machines or... -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 8 11:01:09 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040107155133.00843760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040108165618.GC9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 09:10:40PM -0000: > Heh, but could you imagine HP coming to Witchy Towers to replace a wiring > harness they probably have no stocks of in a machine they almost certainly > have no knowlege of these days? :) Even my local Digital office as-was > wouldn't have a stock of those.... Hmmph, I doubt that many people are left at HP who would even know what a wiring harness is, given that Fiorina "screw the American workers" BimboBabe and her crew of Meaningless But Arrogant credentialed toadies are running that "high-tech" freak show, which was once a company that produced well designed products. It's quite interesting how CEOs like her can yak, repetetively, for long perods of time without saying anything sensible, while biz'droids, and biz'droid larvae (students working towards MBAs, etc.), listen to them with much awe and respect. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 8 12:44:29 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:56:59 EST." <3.0.6.32.20040108075659.008479e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401081844.SAA08917@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Joe said: > At 09:07 AM 1/8/04 +0000, Stan Barr wrote: > > >I used to ride a motorcycle though, still got 3 engines, 2 gearboxes > >and a frame etc. somewhere - Ariel single-cylinder if anyone's > >wants to know. > > An Ariel???? How old is that thing? I haven't heard of an Ariel in AT > LEAST 30 years. The parts I have left are early '50s - the frame is '52. It all started when I bought a 1939 ex-War Department(RAF) 350cc one back in the late '60s and accumulated a few more - sounds like the way computer collections get started :-) Also have some Maico bits somewhere... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 8 13:17:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: DDC BUS-65517 1553 card In-Reply-To: <200401081424.i08EOQIE009350@ccii.co.za> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040108141736.008583e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:24 PM 1/8/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all > >OK, so I have three of these cards (DDC BUS-65517) but no >software or any other info. Did you try DDC? I've gotten several manuals from their site. > >First time I've seen triaxial BNC connectors :-) > >So, how do I make it work? They're probably not much use to you. The 1553 bus is used on aircraft (and spacecraft?) to let the different systems talk to eadh other. I've never heard of them being used elsewhere except for test stations for testing the avionics systems. I have some 1553 cards for the PCs and I got the hard drive with SW from one of the PCs but I've never tried to do anything with them. The one HD that I have came from a test station used to develope SW for the Lantirn system (see F-15 for more info). It's pretty interesting because it has some simulations on that were used for testing the Lantirn pods. Joe > >Wouter >www.retro.co.za > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 8 13:20:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <20040108165618.GC9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040107155133.00843760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040108142016.0083ca50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:56 AM 1/8/04 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Witchy, from writings of Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 09:10:40PM -0000: >> Heh, but could you imagine HP coming to Witchy Towers to replace a wiring >> harness they probably have no stocks of in a machine they almost certainly >> have no knowlege of these days? :) Even my local Digital office as-was >> wouldn't have a stock of those.... > >Hmmph, I doubt that many people are left at HP who would even know >what a wiring harness is, given that Fiorina "screw the American >workers" BimboBabe and her crew of Meaningless But Arrogant >credentialed toadies are running that "high-tech" freak show, which >was once a company that produced well designed products. It's quite >interesting how CEOs like her can yak, repetetively, for long perods >of time without saying anything sensible, while biz'droids, and >biz'droid larvae (students working towards MBAs, etc.), listen to them >with much awe and respect. My you sound bitter. Are you an x-HP employee? I dropped HP as soon as I found out about Fiorina taking over and dropping the HP name (and reputation). Joe From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Jan 8 13:54:32 2004 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <200401081844.SAA08917@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: >> >I used to ride a motorcycle though, still got 3 engines, 2 >>gearboxes >> >and a frame etc. somewhere - Ariel single-cylinder if anyone's >> >wants to know. >> >> An Ariel???? How old is that thing? I haven't heard of an Ariel >>in AT >> LEAST 30 years. > Didn't know they built a single, I remember the Ariel Sqare4 from a car show in the late '60s. I was riding a BSA 650 Lightning at that time, long gone now, but I still have the shop manual if anyone needs it. -nick o From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jan 8 15:07:09 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <200401080907.JAA15078@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <001a01c3d62b$616d59c0$369a95ac@aoldsl.net> Ariel is cool! always wanted a square four.... ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Barr" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:07 AM Subject: Re: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) > Hi, > > Chad Fernandez said: > > > Wow Tony, you fix cars but don't drive? Where in Europe are you? Is > > everything really that packed together that you can walk, ride a bike, > > or take a bus? > > I don't drive, but I fix cars too - in fact I've built one from scratch! > I live on Merseyside and public transport works qiuite well (I *have* to > say that - I worked for Local Govt transport!). Anyway all my friends > have cars :-) > > I used to ride a motorcycle though, still got 3 engines, 2 gearboxes > and a frame etc. somewhere - Ariel single-cylinder if anyone's > wants to know. > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > > > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 8 14:20:16 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:54:32 CST." Message-ID: <200401082020.UAA11789@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Nick Oliviero" said: > >> >I used to ride a motorcycle though, still got 3 engines, 2 > >>gearboxes > >> >and a frame etc. somewhere - Ariel single-cylinder if anyone's > >> >wants to know. > >> > >> An Ariel???? How old is that thing? I haven't heard of an Ariel > >>in AT > >> LEAST 30 years. > > > Didn't know they built a single, Ariel made their name with singles before WW2 - the late '30s Red Hunter was a fine bike in it's day, considered very sporty, with an after-market Hartley cam and a 1 3/16 TT carb fitted it was a genuine 100mph machine. Post war models were heavier and slower but still very pleasant and reliable bikes - and not *too* inclined to spew their oil all over the place :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From cole_94028 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 10:57:24 2004 From: cole_94028 at yahoo.com (cole erskine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer Message-ID: <20040108165724.58752.qmail@web41610.mail.yahoo.com> In working condition, of course! -Cole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes From ebay at neil.us Thu Jan 8 14:16:48 2004 From: ebay at neil.us (notchback) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: need some info on some sort of pocket terminal Message-ID: Found some information on this (I think). I have about a dozen of these and have been wondering about them. Check out the following link from the US Patent and Trademark office: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1 &u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4775928.WKU.&OS=PN/4775928&RS=PN/47 75928 Neil From patrick at evocative.com Thu Jan 8 15:14:39 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: OT: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy Message-ID: I'm a little steamed. I just received an email from Network Solutions offering me a valuable new service: protection of my domain registration information from spammers. For the cost of just $5, my WHOIS contact information will be hidden so it can't be scraped by spammers and doesn't appear in the lists and exports they routinely create from the whois databases. A couple things about this really piss me off. First, NSI doesn't say explicitly, but it obvious during "checkout" on their site, that the cost is $5.00 PER DOMAIN. If you are, for example, like me, a designated technical contact for hundreds of domains that my customers register (often without my knowledge, even), then the annual cost of preserving my privacy is staggering. Second, NSI claims on the "product" information for this "service" that "ICANN requires this personal information to be available for anybody to view on the web." If that is the case, then how is even possible for them to charge me to not make my personal information public. This "service" seems like a gross abuse of the collected data and a complete breach of any ethics with respect to the handling of personal information associated with a domain registration. Am I being unreasonable about this? Patrick From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jan 8 15:24:25 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200401081610359.SM01048@bobdev> > Am I being unreasonable about this? Sounds to me like they're sending you the exact thing they're trying to get you to pay to be protected from. Personally, I would never recommend registering a domain through NSI. Nor would I ever do any other business with them or their subsidiaries. From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jan 8 15:35:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: OT: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dude, > I'm a little steamed. I just received an email from Network Solutions > offering me a valuable new service: protection of my domain registration > information from spammers. For the cost of just $5, my WHOIS contact > information will be hidden so it can't be scraped by spammers and doesn't > appear in the lists and exports they routinely create from the whois > databases. I own, or manage, about 6,000 domains. Yes, I got the same message you did, from several domain registrars. I ignore it. > A couple things about this really piss me off. First, NSI doesn't say > explicitly, but it obvious during "checkout" on their site, that the cost is > $5.00 PER DOMAIN. Yes. > Second, NSI claims on the "product" information for this "service" that > "ICANN requires this personal information to be available for anybody to > view on the web." If that is the case, then how is even possible for them > to charge me to not make my personal information public. ICANN does not make that claim. The whole idea of the contacts is, however, so people can inquire about domain issues, so not having a (public) address listed for a domain is silly. Making the addresses private is something ICANN will probably try to block from happening. > This "service" seems like a gross abuse of the collected data and a complete > breach of any ethics with respect to the handling of personal information > associated with a domain registration. > > Am I being unreasonable about this? A bit. NSI isn't known for their friendly service, or even correct service. They *should* (and, did, I believe) protect the whois info enough for *mass* harvesting systems to fail; I believe they added the "type in the code you see above" stuff a while ago. But, yeah, the service is bogus. Send a formal complaint to NSI, stating just this, and copy it to ICANN. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 8 15:54:25 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney > Sent: 08 January 2004 21:15 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: OT: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy > > > I'm a little steamed. I just received an email from Network Solutions > offering me a valuable new service: protection of my domain registration > information from spammers. For the cost of just $5, my WHOIS contact > information will be hidden so it can't be scraped by spammers and doesn't > appear in the lists and exports they routinely create from the whois > databases. That's bollocks, or at least it is here in the UK. Here's the info from my own domain registry: "The UK registry, Nominet, allows you to request that your personal contact details remain private and are not revealed on the whois server. If you wish to keep you contact details private, please select 'private' from the drop down list below, else select 'public'." No fee involved and that's per user, ie me, so I don't have to tell Nominet to keep my details private for every domain I own. Unless things are completely different in the US that smacks of extortion. > Second, NSI claims on the "product" information for this "service" that > "ICANN requires this personal information to be available for anybody to > view on the web." If that is the case, then how is even possible for them > to charge me to not make my personal information public. Nope. That's kaka. It's up to the domain owner whether they're public or not, at least over here anyway. > Am I being unreasonable about this? Sounds like Verisign type behaviour to me......take advantage of lesser skilled people's knowledge to get money from them for something that should be free. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From mike at shawnuff.net Thu Jan 8 16:17:15 2004 From: mike at shawnuff.net (Mike Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: OT: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy Message-ID: <200401082217.i08MHGdf073792@mailserver1.hushmail.com> On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:14:39 -0800 Patrick Rigney wrote: >I'm a little steamed. I just received an email from Network Solutions >offering me a valuable new service: protection of my domain registration At first it sounds like they're asking for protection money or something, but think about this for a second. Your contact information must be available so that people know how to get in touch with you in the event of problems (I think there may even be an RFC on this). However, this same availability makes you a target for solicitation of great new offers. So in addition to all the anti-harvesting-crawler stuff (the OCR resistent gifs with one time access codes, etc), Registrars are offering a 'proxy' service where your information is not listed...rather the domain is managed by an abstracted management service that hides your real info and gives you an anonymous identity for things related to the domain. (I don't know if this is the way Netsol is doing it, but that's the way at least 2 others are doing it). As such, I can understand them charging for this since it is actually a service and not just "we'll cover up your info if you pay us". Now having said that, network solutions stinks...even though all the registrars seem to be getting better overall with all the competition. -Mike From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jan 8 16:36:31 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <"Your message of Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:00:36 EST." <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net><3.0.6.32.20040108075659.008479e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3FFD5E7A.40501@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00c101c3d639$0e55f4a0$d9594ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: ; "Discussion@internet1.net :On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: Re: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) > Now This is Cool.... somebody on a non-motorcycle list that know what an > Ossa is! I just bought a pair of Ossas a week ago. I bought an 74 SDR > and a 75 Phantom. The SDR is pretty much complete, but does need work. > The Phantom was ridden pretty hard and could really use a full > restoration. I also have a 68/69 Pioneer that I took apart when I was > 16. I'm just starting to buy parts for it now, and hope to have it > ridable this summer. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > > Joe wrote: > > I still have a 1972 Ossa Stiletto and 1980 something Honda 500 but I > > seldom ride them any more. Traffic is just too crazy her in Orlando. Plenty > > of cars in the family. Just went out and bought a new Hyundai Elantra for > > my son two weeks ago. Bought cars for both the other kids and my OL has one > > and I have a truck. > > > > Joe > > > The oil ain't gonna last forever you know - start taking up some European values -support your local store - and walk to it. Geoff. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 8 17:24:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Jan 8, 4 09:05:11 am Message-ID: > > Somehow, I thought a RouteMaster was more tony's style... However did you guesss :-). Alas Routmasters are slowly disappearing from London streets, being replaced by horrible modern things. But there are still enough around at the moment ;-) -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 8 17:48:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040108165724.58752.qmail@web41610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040108184804.00803790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hey Cole! I have one. What's it worth to you? It powers up and appears to work but I haven't actually used it. Joe At 08:57 AM 1/8/04 -0800, you wrote: >In working condition, of course! > > >-Cole > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Jan 8 18:06:50 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Webster SRQD11-B and DEC RD-54 Message-ID: <3FFDF09A.50707@4mcnabb.net> I've been trying to get an RD-54 to work with an SRQD11-B Controller. I finally figured out the the SRQD11-B wants the drive to be select to either 1 or 2, instead of 3. I now have another, more troublesome, problem. The drive acts like it is selected to both 1 and 2 at the SAME TIME!. An access to either will illuminate the drives activity light. Everything hangs after that. The controller works fine with a Quantum Q540 drive. So, is there some kind of Jumper or something on the RD-54 that would cause this kind of behavior? I will probably bring the drive home this weekend and try it on an RQDX-3 just to see if I get the same problems. Of course, I'll change the drive select to 3 first. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 8 18:29:54 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401090044.TAA10149@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Second, NSI claims on the "product" information for this "service" >> that "ICANN requires this personal information to be available for >> anybody to view on the web." > Nope. That's kaka. It's up to the domain owner whether they're public > or not, at least over here anyway. I'm sorry to have to inject some actual facts into such a lovely acrimonious discussion, but.... Extracted from the ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement: F. Public Access to Data on SLD Registrations. During the term of this Agreement: 1. At its expense, Registrar shall provide an interactive web page and a port 43 Whois service providing free public query-based access to up-to-date (i.e. updated at least daily) data concerning all active SLD registrations sponsored by Registrar in the registry for the .com, .net, and .org TLDs. The data accessible shall consist of elements that are designated from time to time according to an ICANN-adopted policy. Until ICANN otherwise specifies by means of an ICANN-adopted policy, this data shall consist of the following elements as contained in Registrar's database: [...] g. The name and postal address of the SLD holder; h. The name, postal address, e-mail address, voice telephone number, and (where available) fax number of the technical contact for the SLD; and i. The name, postal address, e-mail address, voice telephone number, and (where available) fax number of the administrative contact for the SLD. I have been unable to find any ICANN policies that modify any of these. Of course the tech and/or admin contacts may be the registrar itself, or any other organization for that matter, proxying for the domain holder. But II.F.1.g is quite clear. If this contravenes the law in some jurisdiction, well, it's too bad, but any such jurisdiction will have to stay out of the .com/.net/.org domain space until they fix their laws. (No, I'm not stupid enough to think that will actually happen, though it's what should. What will actually happen is that they will ignore the ICANN requirement, ICANN will (eventually) get upset, there will be a big squabble, and something - I don't know what - will settle down out of the resulting dust cloud.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 8 18:48:02 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <00c101c3d639$0e55f4a0$d9594ed5@geoff> References: <"Your message of Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:00:36 EST." <3FFC8184.1080703@internet1.net><3.0.6.32.20040108075659.008479e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3FFD5E7A.40501@internet1.net> <00c101c3d639$0e55f4a0$d9594ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <3FFDFA42.1080801@internet1.net> That's fine and dandy if you live in a big city, but most of the rest of the US is spread out. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Geoffrey Thomas wrote: >>The oil ain't gonna last forever you know - start taking up some European > > values -support your local store - and walk to it. > > Geoff. From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 8 19:09:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: <200401090044.TAA10149@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401090044.TAA10149@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3FFDFF5D.1060701@atarimuseum.com> Well, then I suggest people move to Tucows, I've been registering url's with them lately and the whois info doesn't seem to appear publicly... But this is just like the phone book, you actually have to pay NOT to have your name listed... its blackmail to have privacy!!! Curt der Mouse wrote: >>>Second, NSI claims on the "product" information for this "service" >>>that "ICANN requires this personal information to be available for >>>anybody to view on the web." >>> >>> > > > >>Nope. That's kaka. It's up to the domain owner whether they're public >>or not, at least over here anyway. >> >> > >I'm sorry to have to inject some actual facts into such a lovely >acrimonious discussion, but.... > >Extracted from the ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement: > > F. Public Access to Data on SLD Registrations. During the term of this > Agreement: > > 1. At its expense, Registrar shall provide an interactive web page > and a port 43 Whois service providing free public query-based > access to up-to-date (i.e. updated at least daily) data concerning > all active SLD registrations sponsored by Registrar in the registry > for the .com, .net, and .org TLDs. The data accessible shall > consist of elements that are designated from time to time according > to an ICANN-adopted policy. Until ICANN otherwise specifies by > means of an ICANN-adopted policy, this data shall consist of the > following elements as contained in Registrar's database: >[...] > g. The name and postal address of the SLD holder; > > h. The name, postal address, e-mail address, voice telephone > number, and (where available) fax number of the technical contact > for the SLD; and > > i. The name, postal address, e-mail address, voice telephone > number, and (where available) fax number of the administrative > contact for the SLD. > >I have been unable to find any ICANN policies that modify any of these. >Of course the tech and/or admin contacts may be the registrar itself, >or any other organization for that matter, proxying for the domain >holder. But II.F.1.g is quite clear. > >If this contravenes the law in some jurisdiction, well, it's too bad, >but any such jurisdiction will have to stay out of the .com/.net/.org >domain space until they fix their laws. > >(No, I'm not stupid enough to think that will actually happen, though >it's what should. What will actually happen is that they will ignore >the ICANN requirement, ICANN will (eventually) get upset, there will be >a big squabble, and something - I don't know what - will settle down >out of the resulting dust cloud.) > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 8 19:20:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: <200401090044.TAA10149@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of der Mouse > Sent: 09 January 2004 00:30 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy > > I'm sorry to have to inject some actual facts into such a lovely > acrimonious discussion, but.... > All I'm reporting on is how the UK's own Nominet (aka .co.uk domains) see things. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 8 19:21:57 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: <3FFDFF5D.1060701@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: 09 January 2004 01:10 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy > > > Well, then I suggest people move to Tucows, I've been registering url's > with them lately and the whois info doesn't seem to appear publicly... > But this is just like the phone book, you actually have to pay NOT to > have your name listed... its blackmail to have privacy!!! Move to the UK :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 8 19:28:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: OT: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Patrick Rigney wrote: > I'm a little steamed. I just received an email from Network Solutions > offering me a valuable new service: protection of my domain registration > information from spammers. For the cost of just $5, my WHOIS contact > information will be hidden so it can't be scraped by spammers and doesn't > appear in the lists and exports they routinely create from the whois > databases. This is akin to the "unlisted phone number" charge I brought up a couple weeks back. Just as sleazy... > This "service" seems like a gross abuse of the collected data and a complete > breach of any ethics with respect to the handling of personal information > associated with a domain registration. Another reason why Network Solutions should not be allowed to continue to register domain names. I don't know why anyone would spend $35 to register a domain name these days (I can't believe they still charge that). > Am I being unreasonable about this? Not at all. Suggested alternatives: http://www.bulkregister.com http://www.godaddy.com BulkRegister is decent and charges $12/year as their base rate. Their management tools are passable and they have a decent DNS service. GoDaddy is $8.95/year and their currently running a sale on .com domains and transfers. I've got all my domains currently registered with BulkRegister but I'm strongly considering moving to GoDaddy because they are much cheaper. Does anyone know of any problems with GoDaddy? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 8 19:32:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: OT: Re: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: <00c101c3d639$0e55f4a0$d9594ed5@geoff> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > > The oil ain't gonna last forever you know - start taking up some European > values -support your local store - and walk to it. Yeah, every time you buy a gas guzzler another one of my distant relatives has to take a bullet. In the very least, please don't buy a Hummer :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 8 19:46:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FFE07D8.2090200@atarimuseum.com> When you guys learn to make some real pizza, I'll think about it.... until then, New York USA Rules! ;-) Curt Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Curt Vendel >>Sent: 09 January 2004 01:10 >>To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; >>Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>Subject: Re: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy >> >> >>Well, then I suggest people move to Tucows, I've been registering url's >>with them lately and the whois info doesn't seem to appear publicly... >>But this is just like the phone book, you actually have to pay NOT to >>have your name listed... its blackmail to have privacy!!! >> >> > >Move to the UK :) > >cheers > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 8 20:04:02 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy In-Reply-To: <3FFE07D8.2090200@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Curt Vendel [mailto:curt@atarimuseum.com] > Sent: 09 January 2004 01:46 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Network Solutions Threatens Your Privacy > > > When you guys learn to make some real pizza, I'll think about it.... > until then, New York USA Rules! ;-) > Arf :) I think my Missus will agree with you on that one! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 8 21:04:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect Token Ring adapters available Message-ID: Along with a plethora of PCI, ISA (and 1 EISA) token ring adapters, I have three HP JetDirect token ring adapters (HP part# J2555-60003). If there's any interest, let me know soon before they go off to the great electronic recycler in the sky. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu Jan 8 21:05:29 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: MicroVax II, KZQSA, RZ74 In-Reply-To: <001b01c3d5be$230134d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <001b01c3d5be$230134d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <3FFE1A79.3040908@nktelco.net> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>hardware. There seemed to be some debate >>as to whether the KZQSA can be used or not for hard drives. >>Has anyone else reading this list >>managed to conclude whether this will work or not? Will it >>fit in a BA23 cabnet? Will an RZ74 work >>with the MicroVax II if the board fits and is suitably configured? >> >> > >You can use the KZQSA for disks but it was never supported or >recommended because it was too slow to be useful (or at >least OpenVMS felt that way). AFAIK, it does work. > >Whether you can boot off it or not depends on your systems >console firmware. > >All the KZQSAs I ever saw came with the S-box style handles. >This means that it will not work in a BA23 or BA123 case. It >was designed for the BA200 series. > >Antonio > > > The non-S-box version does exist though... I have one. According to the field guide, M5976-AA has the board spine with straight handles, and M5976-SA is S-box. Still, it seems only useful with VMS. I experimented with it in an MV-II and the latest openVMS version at the time. I attached a CD-rom and also a SCSI disk. I don't know VMS at all and so didn't pursue it any further. -chuck From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 8 21:46:04 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Great arcade Find Today Message-ID: <011001c3d663$1ca8d980$7b0cdd40@66067007> Went to an auction today and picked up a 1989 Sega Golden Axe arcade machine that seems to work (not fully tested yet). Looks like it's Version 1 of the game. There is some screen burn-in but it only cost $2.50 to win the bid so I can live with it. It took 8 guys lifting it to help me load it into my van and only two of us to unload it home. Anyone know the dip setting for free play on the machine? Thanks From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Thu Jan 8 21:40:29 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: DDC BUS-65517 1553 card In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040108141736.008583e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040108141736.008583e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1073619629.2050.22.camel@localhost> Mil-Std-1553... *shudder* Not just on F-15's. The AN/USM-429 CAT IIID (V)1 (made by Grumman Aerospace) had a 1553 bus test unit as one of the "building blocks". It also had an HP 1000 E series for the computer, and an HP 7906 disc drive for the software. Visit http://www.1553-mil-std.com/mil-std-1553-tutorial.html for more info on the 1553 data bus... TTFN Andy-roo On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 14:17, Joe wrote: > They're probably not much use to you. The 1553 bus is used on aircraft > (and spacecraft?) to let the different systems talk to eadh other. I've > never heard of them being used elsewhere except for test stations for > testing the avionics systems. I have some 1553 cards for the PCs and I got > the hard drive with SW from one of the PCs but I've never tried to do > anything with them. The one HD that I have came from a test station used to > develope SW for the Lantirn system (see F-15 for more info). It's pretty > interesting because it has some simulations on that were used for testing > the Lantirn pods. > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jan 9 00:55:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: MicroVax II, KZQSA, RZ74 In-Reply-To: <3FFE1A79.3040908@nktelco.net> References: <001b01c3d5be$230134d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <3FFE1A79.3040908@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <20040109065533.GA22515@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 10:05:29PM -0500, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > The non-S-box version does exist though... I have one. According to > the field guide, M5976-AA has the board spine with straight handles, > and M5976-SA is S-box. Nice. I have no S-boxen, just BA-23s and a couple of BA-123s (I should fix that, though, as I have a KDJ11 board with an S-box handle (from a communications server)). > Still, it seems only useful with VMS. I experimented with it in an MV-II > and the latest openVMS version at the time. I attached a CD-rom and > also a SCSI disk. I don't know VMS at all and so didn't pursue it any > further. Is there enough extant documentation to write a PDP-11 driver? I'd be thinking of 2BSD or RT-11 as a first stab. A bootstrap might be an issue (to toggle in), but even a SCSI data disk on a PDP-11 would be nice. I wonder how much work it would be to add the KZQSA to SIMH? At the moment, I'm a little far from any real 16-bit hardware (all I have with me is 12-bit ;-) -ethan P.S. - of course, all this is predicated on the KZQSA being substantially cheaper than laying hands on an MSCP SCSI controller. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 09-Jan-2004 06:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -11.6 F (-24.2 C) Windchill -34.4 F (-36.9 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.30 kts Grid 354 Barometer 686.7 mb (10373 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Jan 9 01:29:54 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11/40 success (sort of)! Message-ID: <1073633394.2441.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> After the better part of 2 weeks I've finally gotten one of my PDP-11/40's to execute some code. Both initially exhibited frustrating similar problems. Both were stuck in "reset". This was because the processor was seeing AC-LO and DC-LO asserted. While the symptom was the same, the cause was different. In one case the power supply was not deasserting the signals. In the other, something in the RK-11D was pulling the signals low. I've worked around both but fixed neither. Once that problem was solved on the "first" 11/40, I discovered that there was a stuck bit when trying to read or write memory. This was temporarily fixed by swapping the data-paths module. At this point I could read and write to memory. Memory could be read and written through the front panel, but execution would immediately trap to location 4 (6 showing on the front panel). This was a "bus error". I unfortunately spent a lot of time swapping memory around (this was not the problem). Replacing the data-paths module with another suitably jumpered one solved the problem and the 11/40 happily runs a little test program. However, at this point I'm hesitant to run it for very long since there is an acrid smell emitted while the system is powered on. I don't want to burn anything up until I track it down. The second 11/40 still traps to location 4. I've verified that the memory is good by swapping memory boards and backplane (I'm using MF11-UP memory) with the first 11/40. I checked the supplies and they seem a little low, but it got late tonight and I'll check and adjust them tomorrow to see if that fixes the problem. It's a bit hard to determine if any one card is at fault because the two 11/40 CPUs are configured very differently (which means there are almost 2 dozen jumpers between all the boards that need to be changed). Here's the 2 different CPU configurations: CPU #1 CPU #2 KD11-A KD11-A Basic CPU KE11-E KE11-E EIS KE11-F FIS KJ11-A Stack limit option KT11-D Memory management I have another set of CPU boards (but no extra FIS) that if the voltage checks don't solve the problem I'll try to see if that fixes it. If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing from you. -- TTFN - Guy From CaptnZilog at aol.com Thu Jan 8 21:33:41 2004 From: CaptnZilog at aol.com (CaptnZilog@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: HP300's Message-ID: I have two HP400t's, a 425t, and a 425e, plusone 19" HP RGB monitor, free to anyone in easy delivery area of CT (NY/NJ/MA/RI, maybe farther). A bit heavy to ship, especially the monitor, but I might be willing to if needed. Cleaning house,just looking to get rid of them. Pete From john at kristelli.com Thu Jan 8 20:08:51 2004 From: john at kristelli.com (John Kristelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: I need a cable Message-ID: <04f101c3d655$87112d80$2cfc1444@mainframe> I need a cable for the 1541 floppy drive. Can you help? John From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jan 9 00:45:36 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Great arcade Find Today In-Reply-To: <011001c3d663$1ca8d980$7b0cdd40@66067007> References: <011001c3d663$1ca8d980$7b0cdd40@66067007> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040109014019.0244fca0@mail.n.ml.org> Golden Axe kicked ass. I remember playing that on the Sega and burning out 2 systems and breaking at least one controller before giving it up. Golden Axe and Altered Beast were like "THE" games back then. In fact, I should call my father and see if the systems and cartridges are still in storage at his storage unit. I used to have at least one Sega 8 Bit Master System, one Sega Saturn and one whatever the other Sega was that was in between, plus over 150 games for them. One a side note, I had also killed 2 tv's with those game consoles. One, the tube actually over heated and blew, the other, most of the circuits fried. -John Boffemmyer IV At 10:46 PM 1/8/2004, you wrote: >Went to an auction today and picked up a 1989 Sega Golden Axe arcade machine >that seems to work (not fully tested yet). Looks like it's Version 1 of the >game. There is some screen burn-in but it only cost $2.50 to win the bid so >I can live with it. It took 8 guys lifting it to help me load it into my van >and only two of us to unload it home. Anyone know the dip setting for free >play on the machine? Thanks ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 9 06:45:19 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Great arcade Find Today In-Reply-To: <011001c3d663$1ca8d980$7b0cdd40@66067007> from "Keys" at Jan 8, 04 09:46:04 pm Message-ID: <200401091245.HAA02007@wordstock.com> And thusly Keys spake: > > Went to an auction today and picked up a 1989 Sega Golden Axe arcade machine > that seems to work (not fully tested yet). Looks like it's Version 1 of the > game. There is some screen burn-in but it only cost $2.50 to win the bid so > I can live with it. It took 8 guys lifting it to help me load it into my van > and only two of us to unload it home. Anyone know the dip setting for free > play on the machine? Thanks > > Check out: http://www.mspac.com/goldenaxe/goldenaxe-dipsw.htm Congratulations on a **great** find! :) Do you have any other arcade machines?! Cheers, Bryan Pope From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 9 06:53:34 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: OT: Re: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 8, 04 05:32:22 pm Message-ID: <200401091253.HAA30004@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > Yeah, every time you buy a gas guzzler another one of my distant relatives > has to take a bullet. In the very least, please don't buy a Hummer :) > Then you don't want to come to Boston dude.. They are everywhere here. :( I have also seen a stretch Hummer. (ie about the length of a limo!!!) Cheers, Bryan From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 9 07:10:12 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: OT: Re: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <200401091253.HAA30004@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <007701c3d6b1$ea9080c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:53 AM Subject: Re: OT: Re: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) > And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > > > Yeah, every time you buy a gas guzzler another one of my distant relatives > > has to take a bullet. In the very least, please don't buy a Hummer :) > > > > Then you don't want to come to Boston dude.. They are everywhere here. :( > I have also seen a stretch Hummer. (ie about the length of a limo!!!) > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > > I guess if you drive in snowbanks or haul stuff around alot an SUV is handy, a normal 2 door pasenger car is all I ever owned (well and an old covette). I'm in Ohio and have seen stretched SUV type limos (wonder what gas milage they get). From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jan 9 09:05:45 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Great arcade Find Today References: <200401091245.HAA02007@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <00d001c3d6c2$11428f00$da0bdd40@66067007> Thanks for the tip I went out to the site and printed off the settings. This my first arcade machine as they always go too high at auctions but I do have Missile Command cocktail table machine. The cocktail table is a work in progress, I think I will have to replace the picture tube as it's the last thing I need to test for the no video problem I'm having. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:45 AM Subject: Re: Great arcade Find Today > And thusly Keys spake: > > > > Went to an auction today and picked up a 1989 Sega Golden Axe arcade machine > > that seems to work (not fully tested yet). Looks like it's Version 1 of the > > game. There is some screen burn-in but it only cost $2.50 to win the bid so > > I can live with it. It took 8 guys lifting it to help me load it into my van > > and only two of us to unload it home. Anyone know the dip setting for free > > play on the machine? Thanks > > > > > > Check out: > > http://www.mspac.com/goldenaxe/goldenaxe-dipsw.htm > > Congratulations on a **great** find! :) Do you have any other arcade > machines?! > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 9 12:06:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Nicolet NPC-800 Logic Analysis System Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040109130605.007f8100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone on the list have one of these or have experience with them? I found two of them this morning in a scrap pile but passed them up since there were no probes with them. Joe From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jan 9 12:01:19 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Woohoo! References: <1073633394.2441.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <000c01c3d6da$96a27670$d6db3fd0@DOMAIN> I realized one of my earliest cc desires and now have a complete SWTPc system to play with with the arrival of my newest toy: http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss01.jpg Here's the other family gear it joins: http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss02.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss03.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss04.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss05.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss06.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss07.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss08.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss09.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg Had problems with the CT-64 but just got that working. And still have problems with the 6800 computer MP-C or something there not letting it talk to me. I thought I'd be able to use Holly's online docs and am having trouble downloading them. I'll have to go dig the original docs out of storage. One happy CCer here. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Jan 9 12:43:26 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FFEF64E.8040508@ntlworld.com> Tony Duell wrote: >>Somehow, I thought a RouteMaster was more tony's style... >> >> > >However did you guesss :-). Alas Routmasters are slowly disappearing from >London streets, being replaced by horrible modern things. But there are >still enough around at the moment ;-) > >-tony > > > Red Ken has turned around on these because they are such a tourist attraction, they are to stay around for a while yet. Dan From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 9 13:11:43 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Nicolet NPC-800 Logic Analysis System Message-ID: <200401091911.i09JBhxL006601@spies.com> > Does anyone on the list have one of these or have experience with them? I gave a couple to Eric a while ago. Actually just found the boot disc for one a week or two ago. They run CP/M From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 9 13:29:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Nicolet NPC-800 Logic Analysis System In-Reply-To: <200401091911.i09JBhxL006601@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040109142940.00805760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:11 AM 1/9/04 -0800, Al wrote: > >> Does anyone on the list have one of these or have experience with them? > >I gave a couple to Eric a while ago. Actually just found the boot disc >for one a week or two ago. > >They run CP/M Cool! I didn't know that. I found three disks in the drives in these. I've already offered them to Don Maslin. I think one of these may have a hard drive in it. FWIW I did pick up an Arium system. It looks like a LA but there's no place to plug the pods in. It has three empty card slots in the back so pods may plugdirectly into one of the cards. Also one of the ports says Emulator. There's no model number on it so I'm not sure what it is. However it does have a hard drive in it (ST-224) and it does boot (at least part way). Joe > > From data42 at verizon.net Fri Jan 9 09:17:38 2004 From: data42 at verizon.net (Daniel Kelley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Message-ID: <000801c3d6c3$b8153430$2f01a8c0@redwfxe76qazel> I am looking for older computers just to piddle around with and restore if ya know of anyone who has any that they just don't want or need and would give it away just to have it off their hands I would appreciate the info. Have a great day Dan From cole_94028 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 11:12:03 2004 From: cole_94028 at yahoo.com (cole erskine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer Message-ID: <20040109171203.19445.qmail@web41609.mail.yahoo.com> H-hey, Joe, I heard you shot your old lady down... Just kidding -- per our side conversation, it sounds like we have a deal. Thanks! -Cole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 13:57:05 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: LH0080... sharps Z80-CPU clone... Message-ID: <20040109195705.49834.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Ya'll... I need some help... I need datasheets and/or pinouts for Sharp's LH0080 (Z80-cpu clone) cpu. Does anyone here know where I can find them? Any help would be much appreiciated. Thanks. Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes From root at parse.com Fri Jan 9 13:06:31 2004 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:16 2005 Subject: AMI chips; any info? Message-ID: <200401091906.OAA01071@parse.com> I have three types of chips, in the quantities listed below, that I have no idea what they do or what they are used in. The nearest I can speculate is that they are for the Fairchild F8 processor. Anyone have additional info? I can also donate these if someone has a pressing need... Manufacturer is AMI and date codes are 1977 - 1982 QTY #Pins Part number --- ----- ----------- 4 40 S2350 5 28 SW20365K 16 28 SW20417K If the two "SW" 28-pin jobs are "house numbers" and I can't find a reference, I'll most likely pitch them... Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 9 15:21:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040109171203.19445.qmail@web41609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040109162120.007e4a50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:12 AM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: >H-hey, Joe, I heard you shot your old lady down... Damm. You have a long memory. I haven't heard that in years! > >Just kidding -- per our side conversation, it sounds like we have a deal. Great. I didn't gotten out to the warehouse today. I will try to do it over the weekend. I read your comments about the model 19 being about to program 1702s. I had been looking for a programmer to do that with. I finally picked up an old Pro-Log programmer with the 1702 plug in. Haven't used it yet though. What are you using 1702s in? My old Intel MDS systems use them. Joe > >Thanks! >-Cole > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Jan 9 16:28:32 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 QBUS module ordering in BA23 Message-ID: The pieces are all coming together on my PDP-11...I received my SCSI card today and am waiting on the memory. I've been doing some research into what order to insert the cards into a BA23 -- this is what I've come up with. Any suggestions otherwise? Since I haven't seen the QRAM-44B yet, I'm not sure if it's a half height or quad height board. If it is a half height, do I need a bus grant continuity card in the CD portion of that slot? Starting with the 3 Q/CD slots on top, then the 5 Q/Q slots: |------------------------------------------------------------------ | M8190-AB (quad height) | | |------------------------------------------------------------------ | Clearpoint QRAM 44B | M9047 ??? | |------------------------------------------------------------------ | M8020 (DPV11) | M9047 ??? | |------------------------------------------------------------------ | Viking SCSI | M7516 (DELQA) | |------------------------------------------------------------------ | | | |------------------------------------------------------------------ | | | |------------------------------------------------------------------ | | | |------------------------------------------------------------------ | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, everyone! Wish me luck configuring the sucker... Chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 9 16:27:55 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Looking for In-Reply-To: <000801c3d6c3$b8153430$2f01a8c0@redwfxe76qazel> from "Daniel Kelley" at Jan 09, 2004 10:17:38 AM Message-ID: <200401092227.i09MRt0g022649@onyx.spiritone.com> > > I am looking for older computers just to piddle around with and restore if ya know of anyone who has any that they just don't want or need and would give it away just to have it off their hands I would appreciate the info. > Have a great day > Dan > It would help to know where you're located. Zane From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Jan 9 16:37:18 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI drive choices... Message-ID: Forgot to mention in my last mail...I need to get a disk, but I'm not sure how 2.11BSD will react to it. Should I limit its size? Any recommendations? From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jan 9 16:30:49 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 QBUS module ordering in BA23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Christopher Cureau wrote: > Starting with the 3 Q/CD slots on top, then the 5 Q/Q slots: > > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > | M8190-AB (quad height) | | > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > | Clearpoint QRAM 44B | M9047 ??? | > |------------------------------------------------------------------ > | M8020 (DPV11) | M9047 ??? | > |------------------------------------------------------------------ This then wont work, since the QRAM and/or M9047 (grant?), as well as the M8020 all need Qbus. I usually put the CPU in slot 3, then move downward since those are all Q/Q. If you use slots 1-3, put the CPU in slot 1, and for slots 2 and 3, only use the A/B parts (the leftmost sides in your drawing.), since those are Q. Also, I would move the DELQA up in the bus, since it (a) will loose packets, and (b) acts up every now and then. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jan 9 16:41:14 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI drive choices... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Christopher Cureau wrote: > Forgot to mention in my last mail...I need to get a disk, but I'm not sure > how 2.11BSD will react to it. Should I limit its size? Any > recommendations? Well, most systems dont care, but it *helps* to have them be around the size ("at least as large as") an existing drive which the controller will emulate. For example, if your SCSI controller emulates a KDA50 MSCP controller, it will tell the software that it has a bunch of RAxx drives attached to it. It then *helps* to have a SCSI drive which is at least as large as the RAxx drive it emulates: RA80 - 206MB RA81 - 456MB RA82 - 622MB which are mere examples. So, get a SCSI drive of, say, 240MB (those extremely cheap Quantum LPS240's - they cost $0.50 a piece where I come from ;-) and have the controller emulate them as being RA80's. Get a cheap 540MB disk (Conner, Quantum, IBM, Seagate) and have it emulated as a RA81, and so on. Although it is possible, *not all operating systems* will actually *ask* the drive how large it is: many will *assume* a size when the drive type is known... One of my friends in Holland actually uses a nunch of SCSI-based IOmega JAZ drives for this purpose: 1GB per disc cartridge, and he can plug and play.... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Jan 9 16:52:56 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 QBUS module ordering in BA23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:30 PM +0100 1/9/04, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Christopher Cureau wrote: > >> Starting with the 3 Q/CD slots on top, then the 5 Q/Q slots: >> >> |------------------------------------------------------------------ >> | M8190-AB (quad height) | | >> |------------------------------------------------------------------ >> | Clearpoint QRAM 44B | M9047 ??? | >> |------------------------------------------------------------------ >> | M8020 (DPV11) | M9047 ??? | >> |------------------------------------------------------------------ > >This then wont work, since the QRAM and/or M9047 (grant?), as well >as the M8020 all need Qbus. Not so sure it won't work. I have a QRAM-2 (quad width, 1MB) that happily works in a Q/CD slot. John From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Jan 9 21:09:09 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Webster SRQD11-B and DEC RD-54 In-Reply-To: <3FFDF09A.50707@4mcnabb.net> References: <3FFDF09A.50707@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3FFF6CD5.8030105@4mcnabb.net> Christopher McNabb wrote: > > I will probably bring the drive home this weekend and try it on an > RQDX-3 just to see if I get the same problems. Of course, I'll change > the drive select to 3 first. > OK, I brought the RD54 home and hooked it up to the RQDX3 in my PDP-11/83. The 11/83 also did not recognize it at first. I booted XXDP25 off of an RL02 and ran ZRQCH0.BIN to do a low level format of the drive. That worked well and the drive now passes all tests. I'll reconnect the drive to the SRQD11-B when I get back to work and see if it will now recognise the drive. If so, I'll be able to put BSD211 on it. If not, I guess I have a 2nd RD54 for my PDP-11/83, and will have to use the RD52 in the 11/73 at work with some other (smaller) O/S. From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Jan 9 21:29:22 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? Message-ID: <040109222922.2445b@splab.cas.neu.edu> I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, but let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my search a bit. Joe Heck From tomj at wps.com Fri Jan 9 21:47:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Woohoo! In-Reply-To: <000c01c3d6da$96a27670$d6db3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <1073633394.2441.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <000c01c3d6da$96a27670$d6db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <1073701797.2320.22.camel@dhcp-250006> On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 10:01, Mike wrote: > I realized one of my earliest cc desires and now have a complete SWTPc > system to play with with the arrival of my newest toy: Floppies on an SWTP?! Yowza. My first computer! I bought an Ollivetti TE318 to go with it -- that damned thing cost me $900 from American Used Computer. I got my first lesson in vaporware: I found that SWTP "4K BASIC" required 6K of memory to run -- never mind that when I stumbled upon BYTE magazine later, I found it was the SLOWEST BASIC by a huge margin. I sprung for another tube of 2102's. I eventually stuffed 20K into that machine, but I needed a variac to keep the power supply from drooping! I had CORES and other junk, but I ended up writing a cross-assembler in DG Nova macro assembler that spit out binary object onto paper tape, and wrote a binary loader. It was very fashionable to write record-oriented binary loaders in 1977. I wrote a file manager program and drivers for a 7-track Pertec magtape for the machine, using a parallel card. 4 bits plus a clock track (sic), what did I know. Booted the tape "OS" from papertape. It did something like 400bpi. The tape software, complete with coding embarrassments (eg. loop counter 0 - 255, not 0 - 0 for loop=256!) is on my website some where (at least a few pages, scanned) but I can't find them. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 9 20:32:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: CORRECTION: The prior-to date must be OCTOBER 1986 (EIGHTY SIX). On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Yet another follow-up: > > Another relevant aspect of my search is any device that would go into a > low-power (or sleep) mode and then activate upon receiving data over a > network link. So for example, a printer with a print server that sits > on a network and stays in an energy saving or low power mode when it's not > doing anything but then fires up to print a document when it gets a > request. Something like that. I would need documentation explicitly > describing this sort of action. I would imagine there is something > relevant with network cards that have some sort of power-on feature when > network activity is sensed. > > This would have to be prior to 1994. > > Solid leads that I can use will be rewarded appropriately. > > Thanks! > > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Jan 9 20:38:14 2004 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 QBUS module ordering in BA23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FFF6596.6020201@arrl.net> Christopher Cureau wrote: > The pieces are all coming together on my PDP-11...I received my SCSI card > today and am waiting on the memory. I've been doing some research into > what order to insert the cards into a BA23 -- this is what I've come up > with. Any suggestions otherwise? > > Since I haven't seen the QRAM-44B yet, I'm not sure if it's a half height > or quad height board. If it is a half height, do I need a bus grant > continuity card in the CD portion of that slot? > > Starting with the 3 Q/CD slots on top, then the 5 Q/Q slots: > Here's the BA23 ordering as per the manual: A B C D |---------------------------------------- |(quad) CPU | | 1 | |---------------------------------------- | | quad or one dual | | 2 | |---------------------------------------- | | quad or one dual | | 3 | |---------------------------------------- | | | | 4 >----->------- | quad or duals | | | |---------------------------------------- | | | | 5 <-----<------- | quad or duals | | | |---------------------------------------- | | | | 6 >----->------- | quad or duals | | | |---------------------------------------- | | | | 7 <-----<------- | quad or duals | | |---------------------------------------- | | | | 8 >----->------> | quad or duals | | ----------------------------------------- -nick o From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 9 21:36:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage References: <3FFDF09A.50707@4mcnabb.net> <3FFF6CD5.8030105@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <001101c3d72a$e4eecf40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sorry folks... left a colocation customer unattended in our datacenter, and lost a vlan. Greaaaaat. As you can see, we're back up. Looks like classiccmp was down from about 5:15 too 9:15pm. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 9 20:22:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply Message-ID: Yet another follow-up: Another relevant aspect of my search is any device that would go into a low-power (or sleep) mode and then activate upon receiving data over a network link. So for example, a printer with a print server that sits on a network and stays in an energy saving or low power mode when it's not doing anything but then fires up to print a document when it gets a request. Something like that. I would need documentation explicitly describing this sort of action. I would imagine there is something relevant with network cards that have some sort of power-on feature when network activity is sensed. This would have to be prior to 1994. Solid leads that I can use will be rewarded appropriately. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 9 21:40:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: M4 data tape drive with scsi option Message-ID: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have an M4 Data tape drive, with the MK2 256K SCSI option board in it. I am trying to use it with an adaptec 2940UW controller (off the 50 pin connector) and the card doesn't seem to recognize the drive. Guess it's possible the drive is on the fritz, but it was in pristine working shape when I put it on the shelf (was my office demo unit, little used). So, I am wondering if anyone has one of these, and what type of PC controller they were using? Hey, it's classiccmp related, trying to cut some tapes for my HP2000 :) Jay From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 9 21:42:59 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage In-Reply-To: <001101c3d72a$e4eecf40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3FFDF09A.50707@4mcnabb.net> <3FFF6CD5.8030105@4mcnabb.net> <001101c3d72a$e4eecf40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FFF74C3.90403@atarimuseum.com> Nothing like a clumsy-ass manuevering around some racks and trip over a cord or knocking into a piece of h/w and out pops a cable... people need to tread lightly. Curt Jay West wrote: >Sorry folks... left a colocation customer unattended in our datacenter, and >lost a vlan. Greaaaaat. As you can see, we're back up. Looks like classiccmp >was down from about 5:15 too 9:15pm. > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From patrick at evocative.com Fri Jan 9 18:27:46 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: HP5036A schematics Message-ID: Someone posted a note a couple of weeks ago asking for HP 5036A trainer schematics. At the time, mine were in storage, but I've since retrieved and scanned them. If that person, or anyone else, needs, please contact me off-list. --Patrick From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 9 21:46:46 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage References: <3FFDF09A.50707@4mcnabb.net> <3FFF6CD5.8030105@4mcnabb.net><001101c3d72a$e4eecf40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFF74C3.90403@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <002501c3d72c$5f126600$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I called him and asked him...said that when he was configuring his server he put in the wrong ip address. He told me what he put in - and it was the inside interface on our core router. The HP procurve was not very happy about that. No more unattended customers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: Re: classiccmp outage > Nothing like a clumsy-ass manuevering around some racks and trip over a > cord or knocking into a piece of h/w and out pops a cable... people > need to tread lightly. > > > > Curt > > > Jay West wrote: > > >Sorry folks... left a colocation customer unattended in our datacenter, and > >lost a vlan. Greaaaaat. As you can see, we're back up. Looks like classiccmp > >was down from about 5:15 too 9:15pm. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Curt Vendel & Karl Morris > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Atari Museum > http://www.atarimuseum.com > > The Atari Explorer > http://www.atari-explorer.com > > > > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 9 17:56:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Another bounty: Need PC Board BBS Software by Clark Development Message-ID: I'm looking for PC Board BBS software published by Clark Development. I need a copy prior to 1990. This is another bounty and will be rewarded with $$$ for an original package with documentation and software. Please contact me directly if you've got a version of this prior to 1990. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 9 17:46:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Anyone here familar with Motorolda PowerStack computers? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up two of these yesterday. I searched the net but didn't find much information about them but I did find enough so that I know what they are. However one of the ones that I have doesn't have the rounded top. Instead the top is flat and it has a rectangular opening in it and a circuit board sticking up into the opening. It looks like it was made for an expansion chassis to mate with. Anybody know more about that? Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 9 17:40:58 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI drive choices... In-Reply-To: from "Christopher Cureau" at Jan 09, 2004 04:37:18 PM Message-ID: <200401092340.i09NewjS024731@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Forgot to mention in my last mail...I need to get a disk, but I'm not sure > how 2.11BSD will react to it. Should I limit its size? Any > recommendations? I'm not sure about 2.11BSD, as I've not managed to get that running on my PDP-11/73. The one time I tried, it still had problems with Viking SCSI controllers, this is supposed to have been fixed, so you'll want to do a little research on this to make sure you're trying to install a high enough patch level. As for drives, I've been using 100Mb and 200Mb drives that came out of some sort of IBM PS/2 (I bought a whole pile at a swap meet a few years ago), and I've also been using 2Gb Segate Barracuda's. Keep in mind though, that I don't run UNIX. Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 9 17:48:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As a follow-up to this, I could also use information of other products that may have used the Koby Electronisc HS300-01 power supply. One such product is supposedly the system that allows one to draw figures on a TV screen during live broadcast, or similar. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 9 21:49:47 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: M4 data tape drive with scsi option In-Reply-To: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Jay West wrote: > I have an M4 Data tape drive, with the MK2 256K SCSI option board in it. I > am trying to use it with an adaptec 2940UW controller (off the 50 pin > connector) and the card doesn't seem to recognize the drive. Guess it's > possible the drive is on the fritz, but it was in pristine working shape > when I put it on the shelf (was my office demo unit, little used). So, I am I have an M4 9914 w/Storagetek badging - with the SCSI option - I am using it with an Adaptec 1460D PCMCIA card in my IBM Thinkpad (the which Thinkpad that writes this) and it runs sweet - I am using NovaStor for software- reads, writes, verifies 9Trk tpae. Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 9 17:08:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply Message-ID: I'm renewing an old bounty. I need to find a Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply circa 1986. A technical manual would also be relevant. This was including in a product made by Interand Corporation out of Illinois. The relevant feature of the power supply is that it would "monitor a network in a low power mode and 'wake-up' if there was activity". Since this is not generally the function of a power supply, it may be that the power supply had some sort of sensing circuitry to monitor a data connection and then fully power up when it sensed activity. If there are any other products circa 1986 that fit this description then that would also be relevant. The timeframe for this is very short: I need something by Monday for my client. If this rings a bell with anyone then please get back to me. I'm paying a bounty for solid leads. Please contact me directly if you've got anything. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 9 16:56:13 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer Message-ID: <200401092256.OAA07980@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Ok, who was it that said they had information on one of these? I just picked one up today and need to know how to talk to it. Thanks Dwight From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 9 21:55:53 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: M4 data tape drive with scsi option In-Reply-To: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FFF77C9.9080404@atarimuseum.com> 2940uw? They have an external 68 pin connector (at least the 3 I have do) so you running it off the internal connector via ribbon cable??? Do you have anything else hooked to the controller besides the M4? If so, is everything properly terminated, including the M4? I have found that my DEC TSZ07 has to be fully at a ready before I can power up my PC as it wont recognize unless its gone through its full POST, so if yours is internal, its possible the SCSI card is coming up before the M4 has finished its POST and hasn't presented its SCSI ID onto the bus yet. Curt Jay West wrote: >I have an M4 Data tape drive, with the MK2 256K SCSI option board in it. I >am trying to use it with an adaptec 2940UW controller (off the 50 pin >connector) and the card doesn't seem to recognize the drive. Guess it's >possible the drive is on the fritz, but it was in pristine working shape >when I put it on the shelf (was my office demo unit, little used). So, I am >wondering if anyone has one of these, and what type of PC controller they >were using? > >Hey, it's classiccmp related, trying to cut some tapes for my HP2000 :) > >Jay > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 9 22:00:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage In-Reply-To: <002501c3d72c$5f126600$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3FFDF09A.50707@4mcnabb.net> <3FFF6CD5.8030105@4mcnabb.net><001101c3d72a$e4eecf40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FFF74C3.90403@atarimuseum.com> <002501c3d72c$5f126600$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FFF78D7.3020803@atarimuseum.com> No kidding, heck I rarely would allow another engineer unfamiliar with one of my customers sites in the cage alone when I worked at Exodus (Now Cable & Wireless) a few years back, just too many ways for people to screw up and you just can't take ANY chances in a live production environment. Man that was a great job, nothing beats the humming of hundreds of machines, there cooling fans, the airconditioners whirling away, your fingers turning blue after 12 hours in the datacenter, occassionally some soul when come walking past and thats like your only glimpse of human life for another couple of hours.... ahhhh the good old DOT COM days.... Curt Jay West wrote: >I called him and asked him...said that when he was configuring his server he >put in the wrong ip address. He told me what he put in - and it was the >inside interface on our core router. The HP procurve was not very happy >about that. No more unattended customers! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Curt Vendel" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 9:42 PM >Subject: Re: classiccmp outage > > > > >>Nothing like a clumsy-ass manuevering around some racks and trip over a >>cord or knocking into a piece of h/w and out pops a cable... people >>need to tread lightly. >> >> >> >>Curt >> >> >>Jay West wrote: >> >> >> >>>Sorry folks... left a colocation customer unattended in our datacenter, >>> >>> >and > > >>>lost a vlan. Greaaaaat. As you can see, we're back up. Looks like >>> >>> >classiccmp > > >>>was down from about 5:15 too 9:15pm. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >> >> >>Curt Vendel & Karl Morris >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>The Atari Museum >>http://www.atarimuseum.com >> >>The Atari Explorer >>http://www.atari-explorer.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jan 9 22:04:00 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401100414.XAA08124@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > As a follow-up to this, I could also use information of other > products that may have used the Koby Electronisc HS300-01 power > supply. One such product is supposedly the system that allows one to > draw figures on a TV screen during live broadcast, or similar. A Chyron? I know someone who works with them, or did a few years back and I imagine still does. If it matters he may be able to find out what they use for power supplies now. Or is that not of interest? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dancohoe at oxford.net Fri Jan 9 22:42:02 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: OT somewhat: Anybody in Houston who can help...& some Sun items available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006301c3d734$18a03690$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> I need some help in Houston to collect and deliver some heavy HP stuff to a trucking company for shipment. The equipment includes some big old drives which need to locked for shipment. The items are in a self storage unit and would need a Budget van or a low trailer with a strong ramp. Of course I'm ready to pay a reasonable amount for time and rentals. As well, there is a bunch of vintage Sun equipment at the site that can be thrown in as part of the deal. Anybody out there who can help? Please reply off-list. thanks, Dan Cohoe From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jan 9 23:07:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040110050700.GA24615@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jan 09, 2004 at 06:22:51PM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Yet another follow-up: > > Another relevant aspect of my search is any device that would go into a > low-power (or sleep) mode and then activate upon receiving data over a > network link. Would an ASR-33 TTY count? The model with the 110 baud data set in the base would sit, powered down, until the phone rang. The ring voltage would turn it on, until it received a ^D, then it would power off again. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-Jan-2004 05:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -11.6 F (-24.3 C) Windchill -27.1 F (-32.9 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.3 kts Grid 354 Barometer 688.4 mb (10309. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 9 23:28:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? In-Reply-To: <040109222922.2445b@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, but > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my search > a bit. 8" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Fri Jan 9 23:59:30 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? Message-ID: Nope, actually the APC III has 5.25 drives. The original APC had the 8" floppies. >From what I googled the APC III is using quad density 720kb floppies. It ran a modified OEM'd version of MSDOS 2.11. Also apparently there was PC/UX a System III derivative available from NEC at the time. Alas, I've yet to find images of either to this point. On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, but > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my search > a bit. 8" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at ttp://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Jan 10 00:16:29 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: M4 data tape drive with scsi option References: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <005301c3d741$49ceedd0$2201a8c0@finans> I'm using a 9914 off an Adaptec 2940AU Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 4:40 AM Subject: M4 data tape drive with scsi option > I have an M4 Data tape drive, with the MK2 256K SCSI option board in it. I > am trying to use it with an adaptec 2940UW controller (off the 50 pin > connector) and the card doesn't seem to recognize the drive. Guess it's > possible the drive is on the fritz, but it was in pristine working shape > when I put it on the shelf (was my office demo unit, little used). So, I am > wondering if anyone has one of these, and what type of PC controller they > were using? > > Hey, it's classiccmp related, trying to cut some tapes for my HP2000 :) > > Jay > > From mtapley at swri.edu Sat Jan 10 00:32:39 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: DDC BUS-65517 1553 card In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040108141736.008583e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040108141736.008583e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >At 04:24 PM 1/8/04 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi all >> >>OK, so I have three of these cards (DDC BUS-65517) but no >>software or any other info. > > Did you try DDC? I've gotten several manuals from their site. > >> >>First time I've seen triaxial BNC connectors :-) >> >>So, how do I make it work? > > They're probably not much use to you. The 1553 bus is used on aircraft >(and spacecraft?) to let the different systems talk to eadh other. Spacecraft, yes. IMAGE used them, so will New Horizons (headed for Pluto, will be *very* on-topic before it gets to its destination. Not yet though, apologies.) -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 10 02:41:59 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Baystack Instant Internet 100 Message-ID: <00a401c3d755$9cbd9cd0$0500fea9@game> Anybody here using the old (relatively) Baynetworks Baystack Instant Internet 100? Mine uses version 7.00 firmware and software and was wondering if anybody had the firmware and software 7.20 for this unit. I got mine secondhand from a friend and you need a buisiness acount with Nortel (who purchased bay networks) to get newer software then 6.0. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 10 02:48:22 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI drive choices... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040110094822.70fa57ea.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:37:18 -0600 "Christopher Cureau" wrote: > Forgot to mention in my last mail...I need to get a disk, but I'm not > sure how 2.11BSD will react to it. Should I limit its size? Any > recommendations? I used a 940 MB 9" SMD disk, controled by an Emulex QD33 with 2.11BSD. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 10 02:49:54 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Anyone here familar with Motorolda PowerStack computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040110094954.2f2d4467.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:46:08 -0500 Joe wrote: > I picked up two of these yesterday. I searched the net but didn't > find > much information about them but I did find enough so that I know what > they are. There are many different variants of "PowerStack" boxen. I have a "PowerStack I" and a "PowerStack II". They are PeeCeeish looking minitowers. There is a PReP architecture PCI/ISA mainboard with PPC604 inside. > However one of the ones that I have doesn't have the rounded top. > Instead the top is flat and it has a rectangular opening in it and a > circuit board sticking up into the opening. It looks like it was made > for an expansion chassis to mate with. Anybody know more about that? Seems you have one of the older VME based machines. Well, as the name Power_Stack_ implies, you can stack an expansion chassis on top. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 10 03:08:03 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Apple A/UX Message-ID: <00c001c3d759$40d332f0$0500fea9@game> The last release of apple A/UX was 3.1 that came with my AWS95 machine, before that there was A/UX 2.0 for the IIfx and other machines in that era. What I want to know is was A/UX 1.0 ever released and what systems/requirements did it need to run? Until recently there was very little information on A/UX 2.0 on the web and I still havnt seen anything on 1.0 at all (3.0 is well documented). If it does exists its probably 14+ years old. From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Jan 10 03:19:00 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: What are these for? 24 Mb disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040107195547.00861640@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040107154236.00842870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040107195547.00861640@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401100419.00288.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 07 January 2004 19:55, Joe wrote: > At 06:17 PM 1/7/04 -0500, Pat wrote: > >On Wednesday 07 January 2004 15:42, Joe wrote: > >> Another of today's finds. Two "Verbatim 24Mb High Capacity > >> Flexible Disk Servowritten and Verified 78 Sectors per Track 666 > >> TPI". These have a hard plastic shell with a shutter. I thought at > >> first they were MO disks but they're thinner plus the capacity is > >> a lot less. I haven't figured out how to release the shutter so I > >> don't know what the media looks like. One disk is label > >> "Restricted Rights Encore Computer Corporation". It used to have > >> somehting typed on the label but it's all faded now and it's too > >> faint to read. > >> > >> I've never seen these before. Does anyone know any more about > >> them? > >> > >> Joe > > > >Encore used to make terminal servers - called 'Annex' - which seem > > to be impossible to find boot images for. If you can find a way > > to read that disk, it probably has drivers if it's still intact. > > It'd be useful to me, amoung others I'm sure. > > OK then why don't you send me your address and I'll send you the > disks. You're more like to find a drive for them than I am. I found > these with a pile of gutted VME computers (but I didn't notice the > brand name of the computers). I don't know if they came from one of > those computers or not but the next time I go back there I'll look at > them closer and see if the drive might still be there. Hopefully the > drive used a SCSI interface or something standard. FWIW the *only* > thing that I did find in the computers was a PCI/VME adapter card > made by Bit3. I'd prefer if someone with one of those drives got the disk : ) but if one doesn't show up in the next few days, I'll send that to you offlist. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From cole_94028 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 00:50:36 2004 From: cole_94028 at yahoo.com (Cole Erskine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040109221804.011b2b20@localhost> At 16:21 PM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: > What are you using 1702s in? My old Intel MDS systems use them. I'm starting to play with an old Pro-Log board (4004-based with 3 1702 sockets). -Cole From cole_94028 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 00:57:10 2004 From: cole_94028 at yahoo.com (Cole Erskine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040109225320.021f27a8@localhost> At 14:56 PM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: > Ok, who was it that said they had information on > one of these? I just picked one up today and need > to know how to talk to it. Hi Dwight, Joe is selling me his; I don't have any info yet but maybe in a week or so we can compare notes... -Cole From denis at juroszek.de Fri Jan 9 15:16:13 2004 From: denis at juroszek.de (Denis Juroszek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 Message-ID: <000001c3d6f6$9c219010$65c8a8c0@denis> i hope you can help me. i found you with www.google.de. i?m looking for a schematic of an epson hx-20 and other technical information. i have tree of them, but only one work corektly. the other two don?t start the basic interpreter an work only with the monitor. do you have a tip for me, where i can become information or schematics for tghe hx-20? by denis From gvsher at netzero.com Sat Jan 10 02:36:51 2004 From: gvsher at netzero.com (Glenn Sherwood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: HP 9111A tablet Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20040110013651.014f3b40@pop.netzero.com> Hello, I saw your query on a web search for the 9111A. I worked in the HP factory where these were made and they were a high-quality piece of equipment! It's too bad that HP doesn't support it now. Some 9111A manuals had example programs for the 85A and other GPIB system setups. The 9111A was used with the HP300/9000 computers and EGS, which was quite a powerful CAD system in its day and you can find some of these systems still working. The HP EGS software was written in Pascal. The HP86B had a software program that would use the 9111A tablet for some drafting work. And it would plot out a tablet overlay, similar to EGS. It was called the "Series 80 9111A Tools, Graphic Tablet System, HP-86/87 Editor" and I still have a single-sided disk here that was usable on the old HP 9121 3.5" dual-floppy drive. I also have a disk of the 9111A HP85 System Tools, but I don't know if the disks are still good. I might have the HP85 tools on a cassette also. My HP86B died and so did my two HP85s. The HP86B might still work somewhat, but I haven't had time to fix it. The advantage of the HP86B and the HP87 were that they had larger screens than the HP85, so you could see a drawing on the screen better. The 8-bit systems were pretty slow, however, so it made any kind of CAD difficult. One other idea on this is that CEC (Capital Equipment Corp. in Massachusetts) made a GPIB interface for the PC called the IEEE-488 and in their promo literature it gave a GW Basic program for using the 9111A with a PC. They claimed to have used the tablet with an early version of AutoCad but they would not sell a driver and said it wasn't being marketed. It gave some code examples in Basic & Pascal. I've tried to find a PC mouse emulator for the 9111A tablet with no success, but a programmer might write one without too much trouble. The mouse protocol is published in some places. It would require a system with GPIB, or a GPIB to Serial bus converter like those made by IOtech. You can find converters on eBay occasionally. I've got a file of all this tablet stuff here somewhere and have wanted to do more with this since I own a 9111A and it sits here unused. I used an Appoint MousePen with TurboCad once and thought it worked better than an ordinary mouse device. It has a feel more like the tablet, but having used the 9111A with EGS, I thought it made CAD drafting easier. Some other types of tablets exist out there too and some CAD magazines have printed reviews. Using the 9111A depends on what you want to do. I'm seeing more of a need for a digitizer, but HP made some larger units for that task. The HP7470A and HP7475A plotters can also be used as digitizers with the Digitizing Scope. It was an optical view finder that looked like a plotter pen, only a bit larger in size. You could put a drawing in the plotter and move it around with the direction arrows and press the "enter" button to log a point when you had the Scope over the position wanted. The plotter manuals had HPBASIC example programs to do this. The X,Y data could be stored in arrays and printed out or stored on disk or tape. If you find out anything more on the HP9111, I would like to know what you find. Glenn Sherwood ================= cctech@classiccmp.org Vassilis Prevelakis cctech@classiccmp.org Tue Aug 5 22:52:50 2003 * Previous message: Backing up ST506 disks * Next message: 5.25 Disk Sleeves * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] I bought an HP 9111A digitizing tablet on eBay for my HP-85 and I was wondering if anyone has the software needed to drive it. Alternatively, if anybody has info on the communications protocol used by the 9111A to talk to the HP-85 over the HP-IB bus, please let me know. Thanks From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Jan 10 02:10:38 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: 'Free to a good home' Message-ID: <200401100810.DAA15048391@shell.TheWorld.com> >Forgot to mention that the PDP11/04 also has a GT40 & light pen. Then strictly speaking it isn't a GT40... it is a PDP-11/04 with a VT11 and VRxx monitor. The GT40 was specifically a PDP-11/05 based machine (with the mustard color scheme). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Jan 10 02:21:35 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I Message-ID: <200401100821.DAA14744456@shell.TheWorld.com> >Does anyone know how uncommon the MicroVAX I is these days? Someone's got No, how uncommon are they? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Jan 10 02:27:38 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I References: Message-ID: <200401100827.DAA15104585@shell.TheWorld.com> >They're fairly uncommon as VAXen go, I think mainly because so many >people opted to upgrade them to MicroVAX-II systems. I only know of >one or two people aside from myself who have a MicroVAX-I, and mine >doesn't have any OS loaded at the moment. Since most of the BA23 and BA123 machines I have are mongrels, I'm sure that I could also 'upgrade' several of them with uVaxI's as well... I also have copies of the user guide (and one other guide, I forget which) for the uVaxI. (No, I'm not looking to sell or trade them) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jan 10 04:37:42 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:17 2005 Subject: Anyone here familar with Motorolda PowerStack computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040110102217.04588008@pop.freeserve.net> At 18:46 09/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: > I picked up two of these yesterday. I searched the net but didn't find >much information about them but I did find enough so that I know what they >are. However one of the ones that I have doesn't have the rounded top. >Instead the top is flat and it has a rectangular opening in it and a >circuit board sticking up into the opening. It looks like it was made for >an expansion chassis to mate with. Anybody know more about that? > > Joe Ah ha someone else :-) If it's one that looks a bit like this (googled) one here: http://www.itsinfonet.com/e_gif.htm then yep, you just stacked expansion units on top until you were done. I had a customer in the early 90s that had one of these with about five expansion units on top; mostly hard disc expansion. I remember it having several 600Mb hard discs, the biggest they could get at the time. ISTR it ran a Unix SVR4. I wrote some very nifty software that scanned their previous sales history, and could do tailored mailshots depending on such curious parameters as products that customer had NOT bought previously :-) [only send special offers on a product to people who didn't buy it already, that way you don't offer discounts to people you don't need to, who carry on buying at higher price! sneaky] Their sales director had some really daft combinations of conditions I ended up writing a RPN based language to drive the reporting engine in order to accommodate them Anyway, I've actually got one too, with one expansion unit on top, sat in a box that I picked up elsewhere, which I've not so much as powered up yet. Is there anything to worry about with these ones? I KNOW it's not been touched for at least eight years, and possibly longer. At some point I'll hook it up to the network and see if I can get it to do something useful! At least it's small enough to have out and I can hide it in my server cupboard. I'm presuming it's got a serial tty connection on it somewhere? I've no idea what IP address it might have (though could find out, if it broadcasts anything, by watching the network, I am sure.) Anybody have any info on getting root on these things out there? Would it be better to put NetBSD on it? (I use FreeBSD for most everything else network-wise, so probably less alien to me than anything else.) Rob From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Jan 10 07:28:47 2004 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Looking for In-Reply-To: <000801c3d6c3$b8153430$2f01a8c0@redwfxe76qazel> References: <000801c3d6c3$b8153430$2f01a8c0@redwfxe76qazel> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040110082752.01c8ba40@smtp.wincom.net> At 10:17 AM 09/01/2004, you wrote: >I am looking for older computers just to piddle around with and restore if >ya know of anyone who has any that they just don't want or need and would >give it away just to have it off their hands I would appreciate the info. >Have a great day > Dan Where are you located? Charles Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jan 10 08:23:45 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive? References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040103083041.03e0af10@cirithi> <4.3.2.7.2.20040104213209.033f8768@cirithi> Message-ID: <40000AF1.20802@tiac.net> Jay Jaeger wrote: > Actually, this stuff I am working on (controller and interface) wasn't > actually made by HP, it was made by IOMEC (except for the two > interface cards in the CPU box itself). > > Also, hate to contradict folks, but the HP 2114B itself is pretty much > all TTL. A quick look thru the card drawings of the CPU / memory > etc. revealed only 3 CTL chips and 1 DTL chip -- the rest is either > 7400 series TTL or discrete transistors. I may have missed a couple, > but it is almost all TTL (and I had to make some repairs in memory > addressing when I first got it). > > Perhaps the HP2114A was different? Yes, bigtime! The 2114A is nearly all CTL, very much like the 2116, only a bit slower and much smaller. I also have a 2114B, but not the schematics for it. I was not aware it was mainly TTL based, thats good news to me! > > > The DTL already tripped me up once. I had a J/K flip flop with both Q > and -Q low. Turns out -Q was wired with the output of another gate as > an apparent ECO (wasn't on the schematic). Sigh. At least with TTL > you have the clue of the part being open-collector to help you realize > someone did that. 8^) > > Jay > > > > At 12:01 PM 1/4/2004 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: > >> Your in much better shape with a DTL part than if it were CTL! >> >> I'm glad to be wrong on this one. FYI, 2114's use CTL for the vast >> majority of their logic, just like the 2116's. >> >> The '759' segment of the P/N sure looked like a common CTL part >> (common to old HP's anyway). >> >> Jay Jaeger wrote: >> >>> THANKS. Several relevant chips are there. 9094, for example, is >>> DTL. They are intermixed. I don't think I buy the statement made >>> earlier by one party implying that these are emitter source >>> >>> At 09:39 AM 1/2/2004 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: >>> >>>> > >>>> I don't have a reference for exactly "DT uL909759" >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> I'm in the process of scanning the 1969 f data book and have >>>> finished the >>>> logic part. The scan will be up at >>>> www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fairchild/_dataBooks >>>> later today. >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection >>> cube1@charter.net >>> >>> >> > > --- > Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection > cube1@charter.net > > > From jmw at ptolserv.com Sat Jan 10 08:54:38 2004 From: jmw at ptolserv.com (jmw@ptolserv.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: <000001c3d6f6$9c219010$65c8a8c0@denis> References: <000001c3d6f6$9c219010$65c8a8c0@denis> Message-ID: <20040110145438.0d4e8c5b.jmw@ptolserv.com> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:16:13 +0100 "Denis Juroszek" wrote: > i hope you can help me. i found you with www.google.de. i?m looking for a schematic of an epson hx-20 and other technical information. I have the complete manuals (Programming, Technical, user etc) for the HX20. If you let me know what you need, I can let you have the information you need. > i have tree of them, but only one work corektly. the other two don?t > start the basic interpreter an work only with the monitor. do you have > a tip for me, where i can become information or schematics for tghe > hx-20? Have you tried doing the CTRL-@ reset trick? HX20s have a habit of getting corrupt memory ;) The battery might be getting a little old, too (and don't run off AC power without a good battery, as it acts to limit the raw DC input voltages seen by the machine) On a related note, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about how to transfer HX20 disks to PC. The TF-20 wrote 320K 5.25" DSDD disks. I have two 5.25" (Epson brand) floppy drives in a TF20, but I'm not quite sure about how to hook them to a PC floppy interface (or if it is even possible). Each drive has 4 dip switches (presumably for A/B settings etc), but no settings documentation. The other way is to use the TF20 via the serial port, and pretend to be an HX20. From jdickens at ameritech.net Sat Jan 10 10:11:35 2004 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401101011.35659.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Friday 09 January 2004 11:28 pm, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, but > > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my search > > a bit. > > 8" did you get the special hi-end color model, it had 1024x768 8bit color unheard of in those days... it was the first IBM PC clone i drooled over as a teenager. James From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jan 10 10:15:02 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Anyone here familar with Motorolda PowerStack computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401100815020379.13BA6379@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 09-Jan-04 at 18:46 Joe wrote: >I picked up two of these yesterday. I searched the net but didn't find >much information about them but I did find enough so that I know what they >are. However one of the ones that I have doesn't have the rounded top. >Instead the top is flat and it has a rectangular opening in it and a >circuit board sticking up into the opening. It looks like it was made for >an expansion chassis to mate with. Anybody know more about that? Yes indeed. I used to service the 'PowerStack' VME version systems. What you have there is one of two possible configurations. One system type was made with a PowerPC 603 chip, if I recall, and the other was done with a VMEbus, designed to run with MVME187 or 197 CPU boards. The expansion configuration you describe is exactly that. The PowerStack series were expanded by popping off the cover, and locking in another module. I think you could have at least four, possibly a max of six (it has been at least 11 years since I've seen one). They use SCSI exclusively for peripheral expansion. No Idiotic Drive Electronics in these monsters! OS-wise, they were both designed to run with Motorola's System V Unix release. I don't recall if other OS's will run on them. That's all I remember. Perhaps others will pipe up with corrections or additions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jan 10 10:18:06 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: M4 data tape drive with scsi option In-Reply-To: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001701c3d72b$75b026f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200401100818060687.13BD3372@192.168.42.129> Hi, Jay, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 09-Jan-04 at 21:40 Jay West wrote: >I have an M4 Data tape drive, with the MK2 256K SCSI option board in it. I >am trying to use it with an adaptec 2940UW controller (off the 50 pin >connector) and the card doesn't seem to recognize the drive. Guess it's >possible the drive is on the fritz, but it was in pristine working shape >when I put it on the shelf (was my office demo unit, little used). So, I am >wondering if anyone has one of these, and what type of PC controller they >were using? Silly question, but... Many of those drives had a differential SCSI interface vs. single-ended. If that's what you have, you'll need an Adaptec 2944 series board, or similar HVD adapter, to work with it. Take a hard look at the termination resistor array on the drive's interface board. If it has more than three SIP resistor pack sockets (more specifically, if it has six or nine or more), you're looking at a SCSI HVD interface. Good luck. The M4 is a nice drive. I used to have three of 'em. > >Hey, it's classiccmp related, trying to cut some tapes for my HP2000 :) > >Jay -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 10:55:02 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Anyone here familar with Motorolda PowerStack computers? In-Reply-To: <20040110094954.2f2d4467.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110115502.00849b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:49 AM 1/10/04 +0100, you wrote: >On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:46:08 -0500 >Joe wrote: > >> I picked up two of these yesterday. I searched the net but didn't >> find >> much information about them but I did find enough so that I know what >> they are. >There are many different variants of "PowerStack" boxen. I have a >"PowerStack I" and a "PowerStack II". They are PeeCeeish looking >minitowers. There is a PReP architecture PCI/ISA mainboard with PPC604 >inside. Both of these are E series machines with the PPC 604/166 CPUs in the grey desktop boxs. Model number EX-604E-166. > >> However one of the ones that I have doesn't have the rounded top. >> Instead the top is flat and it has a rectangular opening in it and a >> circuit board sticking up into the opening. It looks like it was made >> for an expansion chassis to mate with. Anybody know more about that? >Seems you have one of the older VME based machines. Well, as the name >Power_Stack_ implies, you can stack an expansion chassis on top. That was the impression that I got but I couldn't find anything definite. I opened the 2nd box (the one with the slightly rounded top. The metal RF shield inside has the cutout of the card access slot and the card is in place too. The only difference seems to be the plastic shell. The funny thing is that the box with the accessible expansion slot has a hard drive in it but the one without the expansion slot doesn't! No, it doesn't appear that the drive was removed. Anybody have any suggestions for a particularly suitable use for them? Apparently they'll run Linux, AIX or Windows NT. Joe >-- > > >tsch??, > Jochen > >Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 10:48:10 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: HP5036A schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110114810.0083ae40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Patrick, I have all the manuals for the 5036 including the service manual if someone wants to borrow them and scan them and post them somewhere. Joe At 04:27 PM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: >Someone posted a note a couple of weeks ago asking for HP 5036A trainer >schematics. At the time, mine were in storage, but I've since retrieved and >scanned them. If that person, or anyone else, needs, please contact me >off-list. --Patrick > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 10:58:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Best find of the day!! #2 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110115818.0085bbc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Went to a hole in the wall hamfest today and look what I found! . I've also been promised a NS Pace single board computer with docs. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 11:03:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer In-Reply-To: <200401092256.OAA07980@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110120316.0080ca40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, SOMEWHERE I once found information about the model 19. IIRC It's very similar to the model 29 but with less memory so it should operate the same and the remote commands should be the same. I think some of the plug-ins will work on either model. Let me know if you run into a problem and I'll try to find the docs that I saw. I THINK it was a DATA I/O catalog description. Joe At 02:56 PM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > Ok, who was it that said they had information on >one of these? I just picked one up today and need >to know how to talk to it. >Thanks >Dwight > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 11:04:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110120448.0080f950@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sellam, Do you have pictures of any of this stuff? I'd help to know what it looked like. Joe At 06:22 PM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Yet another follow-up: > >Another relevant aspect of my search is any device that would go into a >low-power (or sleep) mode and then activate upon receiving data over a >network link. So for example, a printer with a print server that sits >on a network and stays in an energy saving or low power mode when it's not >doing anything but then fires up to print a document when it gets a >request. Something like that. I would need documentation explicitly >describing this sort of action. I would imagine there is something >relevant with network cards that have some sort of power-on feature when >network activity is sensed. > >This would have to be prior to 1994. > >Solid leads that I can use will be rewarded appropriately. > >Thanks! > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 11:10:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040109221804.011b2b20@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110121048.0083ae20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:50 PM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: >At 16:21 PM 1/9/04 -0800, you wrote: > > What are you using 1702s in? My old Intel MDS systems use them. > >I'm starting to play with an old Pro-Log board (4004-based with 3 1702 >sockets). Is that the board out of a model 900 programmer? It sound like it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 11:25:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? In-Reply-To: <200401101011.35659.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110122519.00834e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:11 AM 1/10/04 -0600, James wrote: >On Friday 09 January 2004 11:28 pm, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: >> > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, but >> > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my search >> > a bit. >> >> 8" > >did you get the special hi-end color model, it had 1024x768 8bit color unheard >of in those days... it was the first IBM PC clone i drooled over as a >teenager. > I have one and I have both MS-DOS and CPM-86 for it. But one of the sets of disks that I got don't work well in it (I don't remember which set is flaky). Either the drives are slightly out of alignment or the drives that the disks were written on were. I suspect that the disks are out of alignment since they behave exactly the same in either drive. The machine seems to work fine otherwise. The color demo program is cool. This machine was rescued from a group that collects and refurbs slightly old PCs for various schools and chairities. Joe From dancohoe at oxford.net Sat Jan 10 11:44:25 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Nicolet NPC-800 Logic Analysis System In-Reply-To: <200401091911.i09JBhxL006601@spies.com> Message-ID: <00a801c3d7a1$63df9750$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> I have a fairly large collection of probes for these, two instruments and a complete operation and service manual. The manuals are three ring and could easily be scanned. regards, Dan Cohoe > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Al Kossow > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:12 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Nicolet NPC-800 Logic Analysis System > > > > > Does anyone on the list have one of these or have > experience with them? > > I gave a couple to Eric a while ago. Actually just found the boot disc > for one a week or two ago. > > They run CP/M > > From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Jan 10 12:11:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage In-Reply-To: <3FFF78D7.3020803@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: > No kidding, heck I rarely would allow another engineer unfamiliar with > one of my customers sites in the cage alone when I worked at Exodus (Now > Cable & Wireless) a few years back, just too many ways for people to > screw up and you just can't take ANY chances in a live production > environment. Man that was a great job, nothing beats the humming of > hundreds of machines, there cooling fans, the airconditioners whirling > away, your fingers turning blue after 12 hours in the datacenter, > occassionally some soul when come walking past and thats like your only > glimpse of human life for another couple of hours.... ahhhh the good old > DOT COM days.... I miss those days every so often as well - 3 AM maintenance windows are something you can actually get used to. Of course it would suck when something went wrong, and you did not get to leave until everything was fixed. One of the neater machine rooms I was in was in North Royalton, Ohio (ZRN, for the AOL and MCI folks). We has a few rows of our stuff, but someone wad a fairly big cluster of VAX and Alpha systems. Someone else had a bunch of RS/6000s, including an SP. To top it off, some oddball network had a few racks of blinkenlights HP1000s. I never found out who they were, and I was always tempted by the spare machine sitting on a workbench. On the downside, the colo boss at ZNR was a huge dick, and the only place to eat was some senior citizen hangout diner. The AOL machine rooms (Reston era) were also a favorite - very serious machines, they did not fool around. At one point I extimated over 1000 (three zeroes) HP9000 Unix systems - each in its own rack. Everything else was there as well - Sun, SGIs, IBMs, DECs, Tandems, Stratus, Auspex, and mounds of our Cisco blue. More fibre than I have ever seen, as well. After the big crash(es), AOL really clamped down, and no one other than Steve Case himself could have easy access to anything beyond the bathroom. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jan 10 12:29:47 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synth on eBay Message-ID: FYI TI Fans: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778299287&category=51107 seems new-in-the-box - and cheep, too! Currently $3.25... and just over a day left as of this posting. Cheers John From aek at spies.com Sat Jan 10 12:36:14 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Apple A/UX Message-ID: <200401101836.i0AIaEWb015263@spies.com> > What I want to know is was A/UX 1.0 ever released http://www.aux-penelope.com/ Some actual facts, as opposed to the half-baked opinions on appleFritter 1.0 was released only on disc. The way you got it internally was trundle over to Bubb Road with an 80meg disc and they cloned a copy for you. From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 10 12:59:10 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Apple A/UX In-Reply-To: <200401101836.i0AIaEWb015263@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Jan 10, 2004 10:36:14 AM Message-ID: <20040110185910.20B42801C@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > What I want to know is was A/UX 1.0 ever released > > http://www.aux-penelope.com/ > > Some actual facts, as opposed to the half-baked opinions on appleFritter > > 1.0 was released only on disc. The way you got it internally was trundle > over to Bubb Road with an 80meg disc and they cloned a copy for you. 1.0 was really only to see how the product would do, IIRC. It didn't even run on the IIfx (you had to have 1.0.1). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From owad at applefritter.com Sat Jan 10 13:00:00 2004 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Apple A/UX In-Reply-To: <200401101836.i0AIaEWb015263@spies.com> References: <200401101836.i0AIaEWb015263@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040110190000.13702@mail.earthlink.net> On Saturday, January 10, 2004, Al Kossow, wrote: >Some actual facts, as opposed to the half-baked opinions on appleFritter Are there any specific errors you would care to bring to my attention? Tom Owad Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Jan 10 13:12:56 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Best find of the day!! #2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040110115818.0085bbc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040110115818.0085bbc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1073761975.14951.9.camel@gentoo.private.com> On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 11:58, Joe wrote: > Went to a hole in the wall hamfest today and look what I found! > . I've also been promised a NS Pace > single board computer with docs. > > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > > Joe > Lucky dog. I've never seen the floppy manual before. Any plans to scan? --jc From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jan 10 13:13:32 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I Message-ID: <0401101913.AA06599@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Megan wrote: > Since most of the BA23 and BA123 machines I have are mongrels, I'm > sure that I could also 'upgrade' several of them with uVaxI's as > well... Mongrels? What's that? Can you explain please? MS From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 13:35:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <0401101913.AA06599@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110143548.00831cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:13 AM 1/10/04 -0800, you wrote: >Megan wrote: > >> Since most of the BA23 and BA123 machines I have are mongrels, I'm >> sure that I could also 'upgrade' several of them with uVaxI's as >> well... > >Mongrels? What's that? A mongel is very mixed breed dog. Joe Can you explain please? > >MS > From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jan 10 13:37:54 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: free hardware Message-ID: <40005492.3050809@internet1.net> Hi, I've sorted the following out. It's available for the cost of shipping. Please reply off list. -IBM AT motherboard 512K -IBM serial/parallel card from AT -WD 512K video card -2 AT style ISA/PCI socket 7 motherboards model 586itbd, have both at and atx power supply conections, use 72 pin, or sdram, I installed one in a case, but never applied power. They're essentially new. -2 six foot scsi cables, 50 pin, centronics style connectors -scsi external terminator, centronics sytle -AT power supply, power switch on the end of cable. This is a later model AT power supply, sort of like an ATX in size but without the extra atx functions, 230watts I think. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 10 13:58:40 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs Message-ID: <1073764087.20358.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Just been playing with some real DEC hardware today and trying to coax some life out of a pair of RA81 drives. Both drives are exhibiting the same fault - as soon as the RUN button is hit they seem to try and spin up for a second or two before the spindle motor disengages and the red FAULT light comes on. I'm not back at the site where these are until next weekend now, but is this a common fault that might mean there are a few obvious things I should check first? One drive was supposedly working when decomissioned at the site where it ran; the other one was definitely running on the site I was at today the last time it was powered up a short while ago. Curious that both of them are showing the same fault. I only had the RA81 user manual with me today - should be able to get hold of the service manual for next weekend. However, I hooked a terminal up to the diagnostic port on both drives. Issuing a "RUN DIAG" command with the HDA offline shows all tests passed. Pressing the RUN button as described in the manual gives the "Front panel function in progress" message as expected, the drive tries to spin up and stops, the fault light comes on, and I get dumped back to the RA81> prompt on the terminal - it doesn't even try to run any of the diags that the manual suggests it should do at this point. Looks like something's overloading when the drive tries to spin up and immediately shutting things down. The HDA is free to turn, belt tension seems good, and the motor manages a few revolutions before it stops. Unforunately I can't for the life of me remember what other lights came on at the front of the drive along with the FAULT light :-( cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 10 13:57:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040110120448.0080f950@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Joe wrote: > Do you have pictures of any of this stuff? I'd help to know what it > looked like. I'm sorry, I don't. The system it went into (Chrylon) is a big-assed console type thingy that you would find in a television studio (like when they draw plays over the screen during a Football game). The applications for the power supply, however, could have been anything. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 10 14:01:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > I miss those days every so often as well - 3 AM maintenance windows are I don't miss them... > something you can actually get used to. Of course it would suck when > something went wrong, and you did not get to leave until everything was > fixed. ...and that is exactly why. The worst feeling in the world is when it's late, you're tired, there's no place comfortable to sit and you've been standing for hours, you want to go home, and you have no idea why the system isn't working. Screw that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jan 10 14:38:40 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > Does anyone know how uncommon the MicroVAX I is these days? Someone's > got one for me (as well as a Tangerine Microtan 65 :o)) I just noticed something for the first time in my VARM. According to table 11.1, the MicroVAX-I supports the VAX's PDP-11 emulation mode. The only other models that also support this are the 11/7xx series, the 82xx, 83xx, and 86xx systems--and they're all rather larger than a MicroVAX-I. -brian. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 10 14:40:55 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: <20040110145438.0d4e8c5b.jmw@ptolserv.com> References: <000001c3d6f6$9c219010$65c8a8c0@denis> <20040110145438.0d4e8c5b.jmw@ptolserv.com> Message-ID: <20040110123830.K27209@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 jmw@ptolserv.com wrote: > On a related note, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about how to > transfer HX20 disks to PC. The TF-20 wrote 320K 5.25" DSDD disks. I have > two 5.25" (Epson brand) floppy drives in a TF20, but I'm not quite sure > about how to hook them to a PC floppy interface (or if it is even > possible). Each drive has 4 dip switches (presumably for A/B settings > etc), but no settings documentation. The other way is to use the TF20 > via the serial port, and pretend to be an HX20. http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html How many disks do you need to transfer? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 10 14:50:46 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040110124518.T27209@newshell.lmi.net> > Nope, actually the APC III has 5.25 drives. The original APC had the 8" > floppies. > >From what I googled the APC III is using quad density 720kb floppies. It > ran a modified OEM'd version of MSDOS 2.11. Also apparently there was PC/UX > a System III derivative available from NEC at the time. Alas, I've yet to > find images of either to this point. > > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, but > > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my search > > a bit. > 8" I have seen disks that were purportedly from NEC APC in many different physical and logical formats, including: 8" DSDD (some MS-DOS, some not) 720K 5.25" ("Stand-Alone BASIC"/"NEC-DOS") 1.2M 5.25" (several different formats) HD 3.5" (including at least one that is hardware incompatible with the PC FDC) Which/whose NEC APC are we talking about? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 10 15:10:01 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Apple A/UX References: <20040110185910.20B42801C@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <009a01c3d7be$1c8fcc90$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Apple A/UX > > > What I want to know is was A/UX 1.0 ever released > > > > http://www.aux-penelope.com/ > > > > Some actual facts, as opposed to the half-baked opinions on appleFritter > > > > 1.0 was released only on disc. The way you got it internally was trundle > > over to Bubb Road with an 80meg disc and they cloned a copy for you. > > 1.0 was really only to see how the product would do, IIRC. It didn't even > run on the IIfx (you had to have 1.0.1). > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Hmm I have been to penelope before, they must have added version 1.0 information recently. Anybody ever see 1.01 media in the wild? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 15:25:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Anyone here familar with Motorolda PowerStack computers? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040110102217.04588008@pop.freeserve.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110162517.007ac720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:37 AM 1/10/04 +0000, you wrote: >At 18:46 09/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> I picked up two of these yesterday. I searched the net but didn't find >>much information about them but I did find enough so that I know what they >>are. However one of the ones that I have doesn't have the rounded top. >>Instead the top is flat and it has a rectangular opening in it and a >>circuit board sticking up into the opening. It looks like it was made for >>an expansion chassis to mate with. Anybody know more about that? >> >> Joe > > >Ah ha someone else :-) > >If it's one that looks a bit like this (googled) one here: >http://www.itsinfonet.com/e_gif.htm yeap, that looks just like the one that does not have the exposed expansion slot. The one with the slot looks the same except the top is flat (and has the slot). Funny thing, the one with the slot doesn't have "Motorola" or "PowerStack" on it. Anybody know where I can find an expansion box and/or a internal hard drive? The drive is standard but it's mounted on a sled that slides into the machine and the sled has the wiring that connects the drive to the system. >then yep, you just stacked expansion units on top until you were done. > >I had a customer in the early 90s that had one of these with about five >expansion units on top; mostly hard disc expansion. I remember it having >several 600Mb hard discs, the biggest they could get at the time. ISTR it >ran a Unix SVR4. I wrote some very nifty software that scanned their >previous sales history, and could do tailored mailshots depending on such >curious parameters as products that customer had NOT bought previously :-) >[only send special offers on a product to people who didn't buy it already, >that way you don't offer discounts to people you don't need to, who carry >on buying at higher price! sneaky] Their sales director had some really >daft combinations of conditions I ended up writing a RPN based language to >drive the reporting engine in order to accommodate them > >Anyway, I've actually got one too, with one expansion unit on top, sat in a >box that I picked up elsewhere, which I've not so much as powered up >yet. I powered up one of these (minus the expansion cards, drives, etc) and it comes up and the lights sequence so I think it's working or at least close to it. Is there anything to worry about with these ones? I KNOW it's not >been touched for at least eight years, and possibly longer. At some point >I'll hook it up to the network and see if I can get it to do something >useful! At least it's small enough to have out and I can hide it in my >server cupboard. I'm presuming it's got a serial tty connection on it >somewhere? Possible. But mine have PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports them. And one of them has a Matrox Millenium VGA video card in it. Somewhere on the net, I found a review of the PowerStack and it listed the various video cards that would work in it. I've no idea what IP address it might have (though could find >out, if it broadcasts anything, by watching the network, I am sure.) > >Anybody have any info on getting root on these things out there? That's one thing that I'm wondering about too. Would it >be better to put NetBSD on it? FWIW There is a Debian Linux port for it. Found LOTs of postings on the web about that. Joe (I use FreeBSD for most everything else >network-wise, so probably less alien to me than anything else.) > >Rob > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 15:32:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Anyone here familar with Motorolda PowerStack computers? In-Reply-To: <200401100815020379.13BA6379@192.168.42.129> References: <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040109184608.008292a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110163255.00799290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:15 AM 1/10/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, Joe, > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 09-Jan-04 at 18:46 Joe wrote: > >>I picked up two of these yesterday. I searched the net but didn't find >>much information about them but I did find enough so that I know what they >>are. However one of the ones that I have doesn't have the rounded top. >>Instead the top is flat and it has a rectangular opening in it and a >>circuit board sticking up into the opening. It looks like it was made for >>an expansion chassis to mate with. Anybody know more about that? > > Yes indeed. I used to service the 'PowerStack' VME version systems. Hi Bruce. I haven't heard from you for a while. These aren't VME. I've heard of a PowerStack II. Possible they were VME. These have a riser board on the LH side (similar to NLX) with several PCI slots on that and one short propriatary slot that the floppy drive plugs into. There's also a riser board at the rear of the machine that the ports are mounted on. There are three slots for CD and/or hard drives. Those also plug into the rear riser board. Everything else is on the motherboard. > > What you have there is one of two possible configurations. One system type was made with a PowerPC 603 chip, if I recall, and the other was done with a VMEbus, designed to run with MVME187 or 197 CPU boards. > > The expansion configuration you describe is exactly that. The PowerStack series were expanded by popping off the cover, and locking in another module. I think you could have at least four, possibly a max of six (it has been at least 11 years since I've seen one). They use SCSI exclusively for peripheral expansion. No Idiotic Drive Electronics in these monsters! > > OS-wise, they were both designed to run with Motorola's System V Unix release. I don't recall if other OS's will run on them. Yeap, AIX, FreeBSD (I think) and Debian Linux. I think there was one more but I forget. > > That's all I remember. Perhaps others will pipe up with corrections or additions. OK thanks. Joe > > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 10 15:39:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: <000001c3d6f6$9c219010$65c8a8c0@denis> from "Denis Juroszek" at Jan 9, 4 10:16:13 pm Message-ID: > > i hope you can help me. i found you with www.google.de. i=B4m looking = You have posted to a large mailing list, not to a single person! > for a schematic of an epson hx-20 and other technical information. i = I have the hardware technical manual for the HX20, which includes schematics, troubleshooting info, and theory-of-operation sections. Alas I have no scanner, but I can e-mail you some hints, I think. > have tree of them, but only one work corektly. the other two don=B4t = > start the basic interpreter an work only with the monitor. do you have a = Have you tried a 'cold reset' (IIRC hold down ctrl-@ -- there are instruction at the start of the menu). Some of my HX20s had problems with BASIC which turned out to be due to garbage in memeory that was confusing things. > tip for me, where i can become information or schematics for tghe hx-20? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 10 15:55:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: <20040110145438.0d4e8c5b.jmw@ptolserv.com> from "jmw@ptolserv.com" at Jan 10, 4 02:54:38 pm Message-ID: > On a related note, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about how to = > transfer HX20 disks to PC. The TF-20 wrote 320K 5.25" DSDD disks. I have = > two 5.25" (Epson brand) floppy drives in a TF20, but I'm not quite sure a= > bout how to hook them to a PC floppy interface (or if it is even possible= > ). Each drive has 4 dip switches (presumably for A/B settings etc), but n= IIRC, those are the 1/3rd height Epson drives with linear actuator positioners (a bit like a mini-RK05 positioner!). They were also used in the QX10, and the techincal manual for that machine (which I have) contains schematics, etc. However, 320K DSDD sounds like a 40 cylinder format to me. Are you sure a PC 360K drive can't read them? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 10 16:00:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: <1073764087.20358.13.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jan 10, 4 07:48:08 pm Message-ID: > > Just been playing with some real DEC hardware today and trying to coax > some life out of a pair of RA81 drives. > > Both drives are exhibiting the same fault - as soon as the RUN button is > hit they seem to try and spin up for a second or two before the spindle > motor disengages and the red FAULT light comes on. > > I'm not back at the site where these are until next weekend now, but is > this a common fault that might mean there are a few obvious things I > should check first? > > One drive was supposedly working when decomissioned at the site where it > ran; the other one was definitely running on the site I was at today the > last time it was powered up a short while ago. Curious that both of them > are showing the same fault. One quick question. Was the positioner locked before you moved the drives, and have you unlocked it? There's a white lever on top of the HDA at the front (in front of the R/W PCB). If you moved the drive without locking it, you may well now be looking for a new HDA :-( -tony From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sat Jan 10 16:06:54 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? Message-ID: Hi Fred, For me, I am talking about the 720K 5.25 flavor for the APC III. dc >I have seen disks that were purportedly from NEC APC in many different >physical and logical formats, including: > >8" DSDD (some MS-DOS, some not) > >720K 5.25" ("Stand-Alone BASIC"/"NEC-DOS") > >1.2M 5.25" (several different formats) > >HD 3.5" (including at least one that is hardware incompatible with the PC >FDC) > >Which/whose NEC APC are we talking about? > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin at xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 10 16:23:30 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: Apple A/UX In-Reply-To: <009a01c3d7be$1c8fcc90$0500fea9@game> from "Teo Zenios" at Jan 10, 2004 04:10:01 PM Message-ID: <20040110222330.D21037F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > What I want to know is was A/UX 1.0 ever released > > > > > > http://www.aux-penelope.com/ > > > > > > Some actual facts, as opposed to the half-baked opinions on appleFritter > > > > > > 1.0 was released only on disc. The way you got it internally was trundle > > > over to Bubb Road with an 80meg disc and they cloned a copy for you. > > > > 1.0 was really only to see how the product would do, IIRC. It didn't even > > run on the IIfx (you had to have 1.0.1). > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.net > > > > Hmm I have been to penelope before, they must have added version 1.0 > information recently. Anybody ever see 1.01 media in the wild? I believe 1.0.1 was an update-only. I can't remember how you were supposed to install it if you didn't have a Mac II. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 10 16:35:44 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040110143326.L27209@newshell.lmi.net> > > On a related note, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about how to = > > transfer HX20 disks to PC. The TF-20 wrote 320K 5.25" DSDD disks. I have = On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > However, 320K DSDD sounds like a 40 cylinder format to me. Are you sure a > PC 360K drive can't read them? That is right The Epson HX20 disks that I have seen (there IS more than one format!) are readable with a 360K drive, WITH appropriate software. (It is, of course, NOT an MS-DOS disk format) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 10 16:50:26 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073774368.20358.36.camel@weka.localdomain> > One quick question. Was the positioner locked before you moved the > drives, and have you unlocked it? There's a white lever on top of the HDA > at the front (in front of the R/W PCB). If you moved the drive without > locking it, you may well now be looking for a new HDA :-( At least in the last couple of years they've been moved safely with the lever in the locked position and the belt tensioner released, so that *should* be ok. Of course, I don't know the history of the drives prior to that. But at least one of them hasn't been moved since it was last successfully run at the current site; it just gave this fault today when we tried to power it up. Whether the other unknown unit has more serious problems or not I won't find out until later. Half the cables were unplugged inside suggesting that *someone* had been monkeying around with it at some point. Curious how they both give the same fault though. I was doing a bit of googling and it seems like the motor start capacitor and the HDA bearings (eek!) are possible culprits on units that don't see a lot of use for an extended period of time. Anyone know the specs of the motor run caps? If so I may have a suitable one here that I can take with me next weekend and save some messing around trying to find one on the day. Anyone know if the bearings on these units at all servicable? I'd expect not, but I suppose it's possible given their age and serviceability. cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 10 17:30:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <0401101913.AA06599@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Sokolov > Sent: 10 January 2004 19:14 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I > > > Megan wrote: > > > Since most of the BA23 and BA123 machines I have are mongrels, I'm > > sure that I could also 'upgrade' several of them with uVaxI's as > > well... > > Mongrels? What's that? Can you explain please? Assuming you've heard of mongrel dogs you'll know that they're a mix of breeds..... w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 10 17:32:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > Sent: 10 January 2004 20:39 > To: Witchy > Cc: Classiccmp@Classiccmp. Org > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I > > > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > Does anyone know how uncommon the MicroVAX I is these days? Someone's > > got one for me (as well as a Tangerine Microtan 65 :o)) > > I just noticed something for the first time in my VARM. According to > table 11.1, the MicroVAX-I supports the VAX's PDP-11 emulation mode. > The only other models that also support this are the 11/7xx series, the > 82xx, 83xx, and 86xx systems--and they're all rather larger than a > MicroVAX-I. Presumably this needs the extra RSX emulation board rather than doing it off the shelf? cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat Jan 10 18:02:51 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? References: <3.0.6.32.20040110122519.00834e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00e401c3d7d8$182fcf00$bf594ed5@geoff> Wasn't there an utility called "spinrite" that could recover data that was laid down slightly out of alignment ? Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 5:25 PM Subject: Re: NEC APC III diskettes? > At 10:11 AM 1/10/04 -0600, James wrote: > >On Friday 09 January 2004 11:28 pm, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > >> > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, but > >> > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my search > >> > a bit. > >> > >> 8" > > > >did you get the special hi-end color model, it had 1024x768 8bit color > unheard > >of in those days... it was the first IBM PC clone i drooled over as a > >teenager. > > > > I have one and I have both MS-DOS and CPM-86 for it. But one of the sets > of disks that I got don't work well in it (I don't remember which set is > flaky). Either the drives are slightly out of alignment or the drives that > the disks were written on were. I suspect that the disks are out of > alignment since they behave exactly the same in either drive. The machine > seems to work fine otherwise. The color demo program is cool. > > This machine was rescued from a group that collects and refurbs slightly > old PCs for various schools and chairities. > > Joe > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 10 18:42:02 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? In-Reply-To: <00e401c3d7d8$182fcf00$bf594ed5@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040110122519.00834e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <00e401c3d7d8$182fcf00$bf594ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <20040110164034.Q27209@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > Wasn't there an utility called "spinrite" Yes > that could recover data that was > laid down slightly out of alignment ? No Spinrite (and many others) COULD try repeatedly, until [maybe] getting lucky. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 10 20:00:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? In-Reply-To: <00e401c3d7d8$182fcf00$bf594ed5@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040110122519.00834e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040110210055.0081a430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Spinrite will attempt to recover data from failing media and associated CRC errors, invalid address headers, etc but I don't think any software can recover data from an out of alignment drive. Also AFIK Spinrite only works on hard drives and not floppy drives. Also, You have to get the machine booted with MS-DOS first. And finally, I'd have to Spinrite on an 8" disk. Joe At 12:02 AM 1/11/04 +0000, you wrote: >Wasn't there an utility called "spinrite" that could recover data that was >laid down slightly out of alignment ? > >Geoff. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 5:25 PM >Subject: Re: NEC APC III diskettes? > > >> At 10:11 AM 1/10/04 -0600, James wrote: >> >On Friday 09 January 2004 11:28 pm, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: >> >> > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, >but >> >> > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my >search >> >> > a bit. >> >> >> >> 8" >> > >> >did you get the special hi-end color model, it had 1024x768 8bit color >> unheard >> >of in those days... it was the first IBM PC clone i drooled over as a >> >teenager. >> > >> >> I have one and I have both MS-DOS and CPM-86 for it. But one of the >sets >> of disks that I got don't work well in it (I don't remember which set is >> flaky). Either the drives are slightly out of alignment or the drives that >> the disks were written on were. I suspect that the disks are out of >> alignment since they behave exactly the same in either drive. The machine >> seems to work fine otherwise. The color demo program is cool. >> >> This machine was rescued from a group that collects and refurbs slightly >> old PCs for various schools and chairities. >> >> Joe >> > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jan 10 22:16:26 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: m4 data 1/2 tape drive woes Message-ID: <002f01c3d7f9$ae65c6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Well I just confirmed my suspicions by hooking the m4 (9903) drive up to it's original system (a General Automation Zebra 2820). The MK2 SCSI board in the M4 data drive is "faulty", the controllers don't see it. I hate to go in search of a new 1/2 SCSI tape drive as they are pretty expensive. My M4 is (comparatively) light, and was little used and in gorgeous condition. So, what are the chances someone may have a "256K MK2 SCSI" board for an M4 Data 9903 tape drive? Or know where I might find/buy one? Thanks :\ Jay West From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Jan 10 17:20:39 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:18 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040110232039.GA31653@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jan 10, 2004 at 03:38:40PM -0500, Brian Chase wrote: > I just noticed something for the first time in my VARM. According to > table 11.1, the MicroVAX-I supports the VAX's PDP-11 emulation mode. > The only other models that also support this are the 11/7xx series, the > 82xx, 83xx, and 86xx systems--and they're all rather larger than a > MicroVAX-I. There was a rumor going around the DEC community in 1984 that the uVAX-I was so slow at running VAX instructions (0.3 VUPS, IIRC, slower than the 0.4 VUPS of an 11/725 or 11/730 ) that its PDP-11 emulation mode was faster. Nobody I know tried to verify it, though. Also, I thought that the 86xx was the last series that supported emulation mode. I didn't think the KA820 or KA825 processors (82xx/83xx) did. If so, then most of my VAXen are on that list (all of them except the uVAX-II and uVAX2000). -ethan P.S. - long ago, we used to _use_ emulation mode at work... for playing games from an RSX box for which we'd either lost or never had the source. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-Jan-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -14.4 F (-25.8 C) Windchill -38.7 F (-39.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.5 kts Grid 076 Barometer 686.8 mb (10369 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rmeenaks at olf.com Sat Jan 10 22:57:44 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards Message-ID: <0HRB000FL745E0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Hi, I have recently aquired a SBS PCI-to-VME adapter card, but it came without a cable. Does anyone know the pinouts of the two cards so that I can fashion one up? The exact model is SBS 616 PCI-to-VME bridge adapter. The same cable is used on the Sbus-to-VME and the ISA-to-VME cards as well... Thanks, Ram From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Jan 10 23:13:18 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards In-Reply-To: <0HRB000FL745E0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0HRB000FL745E0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <20040111051318.GA14893@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jan 10, 2004 at 11:57:44PM -0500, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I have recently aquired a SBS PCI-to-VME adapter card, but it came without a > cable. Does anyone know the pinouts of the two cards so that I can fashion > one up? The exact model is SBS 616 PCI-to-VME bridge adapter. The same > cable is used on the Sbus-to-VME and the ISA-to-VME cards as well... I'm unfamiliar with that model. We have an SiS1100 PCI-VME bridge here, but it uses a fiber pair to connect the ends. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-Jan-2004 05:09 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -16.7 F (-27.1 C) Windchill -51.9 F (-46.6 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.1 kts Grid 068 Barometer 685.2 mb (10432. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mike at shawnuff.net Sat Jan 10 23:13:42 2004 From: mike at shawnuff.net (Mike Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage Message-ID: <200401110513.i0B5DhWY069343@mailserver1.hushmail.com> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:01:12 -0800 Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >...and that is exactly why. The worst feeling in the world is when >it's >late, you're tired, there's no place comfortable to sit and you've >been >standing for hours, you want to go home, and you have no idea why >the >system isn't working. Screw that. The thing I could never get management to understand is that a) 3am means that if something goes wrong later on in the production morning, you've got a bunch of zombies trying to do complex troubleshooting, and b) at 3am with absolutely nothing happening, it's pretty hard to tell if something's going to work right under a load. -Mike From rivie at ridgenet.net Sat Jan 10 23:31:58 2004 From: rivie at ridgenet.net (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards In-Reply-To: <20040111051318.GA14893@bos7.spole.gov> References: <0HRB000FL745E0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <20040111051318.GA14893@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:13:18 +0000 > From: Ethan Dicks > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: Re: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2004 at 11:57:44PM -0500, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have recently aquired a SBS PCI-to-VME adapter card, but it came without a > > cable. Does anyone know the pinouts of the two cards so that I can fashion > > one up? The exact model is SBS 616 PCI-to-VME bridge adapter. The same > > cable is used on the Sbus-to-VME and the ISA-to-VME cards as well... > > I'm unfamiliar with that model. We have an SiS1100 PCI-VME bridge here, > but it uses a fiber pair to connect the ends. If you search for it on SBS' web site, you can find it. The manual seems to be available on-line, but they want you to register for it. I also suspect the manual isn't that detailed. -- Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net (Rated a 10 on the Fox Scale of Forth-Hatred) From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sat Jan 10 23:43:43 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: documentation for Data I/O 19 - have and need Message-ID: <000001c3d805$dffe58d0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Since this is a current topic, I have the following manuals which I will be glad to copy and/or scan - 905-0075 Gang Programming Module 909/919-1063 Natl Semi 54/74S188, etc. (7400 TTL) 909/919-1174 2708; Motorola, TI 2716 909/919-1183 AMD 1702, 1702A; Intel 1702, 1702A; Mitusbishi 58563S; Mostek 3702 909/919-1226 Signetics 82S23 et al 909/919-1268 Fujitsu 7056; Intersil 5600; Nippon Elec. B403D 909/919-1319 Harris 6611/6661 909/919-1417 Intel 8741/8748; 8755; 8755A 909/919-1427 PAL - Monolithic Mem LogicPak Operator's Manual - Programmable Logic Development System I NEED the manual for the System 19 "mainframe" itself. If you have a copy of the main module, I would like to buy it or borrow it to scan if it you will share it. Thanks Jack From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Jan 10 14:53:43 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: RSTS/E associated layered products Message-ID: <20040110.125647.1748.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Hi Guys: I got RSTS/E v9.2-10 up and running under emulation, anybody out there have 'associated layered products'? FORTRAN and PASCAL would be nice, for starters . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From cole_94028 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 12:11:40 2004 From: cole_94028 at yahoo.com (cole erskine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer In-Reply-To: <200401100952.i0A9pDiV048325@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040110181140.83106.qmail@web41612.mail.yahoo.com> At 12:10 PM 1/10/04 -0800, you wrote:> Is that the board out of a model 900 programmer? It sound like it.> It's actually a PLS-411-IN industrial SBC! :-D http://www.digidome.nl/single_board_computers.htm -Cole --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat Jan 10 11:49:10 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Baystack Instant Internet 100 In-Reply-To: <00a401c3d755$9cbd9cd0$0500fea9@game> References: <00a401c3d755$9cbd9cd0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040110124809.02508900@mail.n.ml.org> No, wanted one though. Nortel pulled the same crap with the 504 Baystack units too. -John Boffemmyer IV At 03:41 AM 1/10/2004, you wrote: >Anybody here using the old (relatively) Baynetworks Baystack Instant >Internet 100? Mine uses version 7.00 firmware and software and was >wondering if anybody had the firmware and software 7.20 for this unit. I >got mine secondhand from a friend and you need a buisiness acount with >Nortel (who purchased bay networks) to get newer software then 6.0. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Sat Jan 10 11:42:38 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Programming 1702s Message-ID: <200401101754.i0AHsUiR052943@huey.classiccmp.org> I've seen a couple of threads discussing the need to program 1702s. If anyone needs a small qty of 1702A programmed I can do this. I've got an old 1702A programmer that I use to program EPROMs for my MMD1. The programmer is Tenor Model 763 - it was used originally to program sequence ROMs for industrial control. I've repaired it and made some modifications to it, it's a manual programmer, you enter each byte on toggle switches, originally the LS bit was on the left, MS bit on the right, I reworked it so the bit order was more normal. :) -Neil From techj at inspire.net.nz Sun Jan 11 02:24:28 2004 From: techj at inspire.net.nz (Charlie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Dark Tower - any internals info out there? Message-ID: <025f01c3d81c$557ac920$e38472cb@oemcomputer> mention was made of the TMS1000. Can anyone do a dump on one for me? Charlie Harris railroads@tech-j.biz New Zealand From jmw at ptolserv.com Sat Jan 10 17:24:20 2004 From: jmw at ptolserv.com (jmw@ptolserv.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: <20040110123830.K27209@newshell.lmi.net> References: <000001c3d6f6$9c219010$65c8a8c0@denis> <20040110145438.0d4e8c5b.jmw@ptolserv.com> <20040110123830.K27209@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040110232420.7509150b.jmw@ptolserv.com> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:40:55 -0800 (PST) Fred Cisin wrote: > http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html Thanks, looks interesting. > > How many disks do you need to transfer? I have about a hundred disks, although some will be duplicates (backups etc). The majority contain source code for things like my HX20 assembler and debugger, which would be nice to make available for others. From jmw at ptolserv.com Sat Jan 10 17:31:51 2004 From: jmw at ptolserv.com (jmw@ptolserv.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: References: <20040110145438.0d4e8c5b.jmw@ptolserv.com> Message-ID: <20040110233151.372b506c.jmw@ptolserv.com> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:55:16 +0000 (GMT) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > IIRC, those are the 1/3rd height Epson drives with linear actuator > positioners (a bit like a mini-RK05 positioner!). Yes, 1/3rd height, with a push button on the front (not the more common lever lock). > They were also used in the QX10, and the techincal manual for that > machine (which I have) contains schematics, etc. I believe that the TF20 was usable with the QX10 using the extra parallel interface on the back. If you have the schematics for the drive that sounds like it would be useful. > However, 320K DSDD sounds like a 40 cylinder format to me. Are you > sure a PC 360K drive can't read them? Not sure, as the only 5.25" drives I have access to are the two epson ones in the TF20. Hence the interest in hooking them up to a PC ;) The drives are definitely 40 cylinder. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jan 11 06:00:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? Message-ID: <1073821788.26884.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Got this from a chap the other day: "When we had a Commodore 64 some time ago there was a game on it that involved a little plane flying over some buildings i think and your plane then tried to level these to get to the next level of the game. Can't remember what it was called and if posssible we would like to buy a copy of the game for our computer now." I remember the darn game - one of my friends had a C64 and I used to spend hours round there playing it. The graphics blew those of the speccy I had at the time away :-) I just can't remember the name! I seem to remember flying left to right and dropping bombs on buildings, whilst shooting down enemy planes flying in from the right. I assume this is the game the guy's talking about... Anyone recall the name for me? cheers Jules From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sun Jan 11 05:40:36 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: <1073821788.26884.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040111113200.0231bee0@pop.freeserve.net> At 11:49 11/01/2004 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: >Got this from a chap the other day: > > >"When we had a Commodore 64 some time ago there was a game on it that >involved a little plane flying over some buildings i think and your >plane then tried to level these to get to the next level of the game. >Can't remember what it was called and if posssible we would like to buy >a copy of the game for our computer now." > >I remember the darn game - one of my friends had a C64 and I used to >spend hours round there playing it. The graphics blew those of the >speccy I had at the time away :-) > >I just can't remember the name! I seem to remember flying left to right >and dropping bombs on buildings, whilst shooting down enemy planes >flying in from the right. I assume this is the game the guy's talking >about... > >Anyone recall the name for me? > >cheers > >Jules I remember a similar game going under various names, on various platforms, from the TRS-80 upwards. I even wrote a simple version (just bomb buildings as you fly lower so you don't crash) that worked on the character vdu's on the DG Nova mini at my dad's college that he took me in and let me play on occasionally. Also did the same on the VAX when I started work. There is a very slight chance I still have an 8" disc somewhere with the former on it. The Ops were amazed, arcade games on a machine with no keyboard input. (ah, just trap the interrupt into "drop bomb" instead of exit program. lol. you had to crash to exit the game.)[\__ Anyway, memory cells tell me "Raid over Moscow" as a name and a google for that name on the C64 turns up a game, which might be the one you want! Better graphics than my plane: [\___ :-) Rob From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 11 07:38:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: <1073821788.26884.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 11 January 2004 11:50 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: C64 game?? > > > Got this from a chap the other day: > > > "When we had a Commodore 64 some time ago there was a game on it that > involved a little plane flying over some buildings i think and your > plane then tried to level these to get to the next level of the game. > Can't remember what it was called and if posssible we would like to buy > a copy of the game for our computer now." Rob's already got the C64 version I think, and I also remember Your Computer doing one of their BASIC listings for the Vic-20. Wasn't the speccy version called Rampage or summat? cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rmeenaks at olf.com Sun Jan 11 08:26:21 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0HRB00B3BXFW4E@mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Yes the manual is there, but it does not give the pinouts and they want you to pay over $100 for the cable! Ram -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Ivie Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 12:32 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards If you search for it on SBS' web site, you can find it. The manual seems to be available on-line, but they want you to register for it. I also suspect the manual isn't that detailed. -- Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net (Rated a 10 on the Fox Scale of Forth-Hatred) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jan 11 08:39:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040111113200.0231bee0@pop.freeserve.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040111113200.0231bee0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <1073831358.26885.31.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 11:40, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 11:49 11/01/2004 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > >"When we had a Commodore 64 some time ago there was a game on it that > >involved a little plane flying over some buildings i think and your > >plane then tried to level these to get to the next level of the game. > >Can't remember what it was called and if posssible we would like to buy > >a copy of the game for our computer now." > > > Anyway, memory cells tell me "Raid over Moscow" as a name Hmm, possibly. That name doesn't ring any bells, but I can't guarantee I ever knew the correct name anyway :-) I've seen various games on other platforms which had the same sort of concept (Harrier Attack on the speccy springs to mind), but I remember the graphics on this C64 game being particularly good and it being later on in the evolution of such games on the 80's 8-bit machines, probably around 1984 or so. Looking at the screenshots of Raid over Moscow, I really can't remember if the cityscape in the game I'm thinking of was forced-perspective or just a side-on view. Grumble grumble... I'll collect any names people come up with together though and pass them all on to this guy anyway as there's always a chance I'm not thinking of the same game that he is! cheers! Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 09:16:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards In-Reply-To: <0HRB000FL745E0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111101612.008469c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ram, I don't know the pinout of the cable but I have a Bit3 VME/PCI adapter card (the one for the VME end). If you do find the pinout I'd be interested in getting a copy of it. Ethan said: I'm unfamiliar with that model. We have an SiS1100 PCI-VME bridge here, but it uses a fiber pair to connect the ends. FWIW My card has two 26 pin ribbon cable headers on the front. I don't know if it uses those or the auxillery connector on the rear fo the card but there's no fiber on it. There is a plug on the card that might be for a mezzanine card. Perhaps a fiber interface can be installed there. Joe At 11:57 PM 1/10/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have recently aquired a SBS PCI-to-VME adapter card, but it came without a >cable. Does anyone know the pinouts of the two cards so that I can fashion >one up? The exact model is SBS 616 PCI-to-VME bridge adapter. The same >cable is used on the Sbus-to-VME and the ISA-to-VME cards as well... > >Thanks, > >Ram > > > > From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Sun Jan 11 08:57:52 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: AMI chips; any info? Message-ID: <040111095752.24a84@splab.cas.neu.edu> s2350 is universal syncronous rcvr/xmttr, MOS/LSI 500khz data rate. Joe Heck From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 09:48:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Programming 1702s In-Reply-To: <200401101754.i0AHsUiR052943@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111104830.007e9870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:42 AM 1/10/04 -0800, Neil wrote: >I've seen a couple of threads discussing the need to program 1702s. If >anyone needs a small qty of 1702A programmed I can do this. I've got an old >1702A programmer that I use to program EPROMs for my MMD1. > >The programmer is Tenor Model 763 - it was used originally to program >sequence ROMs for industrial control. I've repaired it and made some >modifications to it, it's a manual programmer, you enter each byte on toggle >switches, originally the LS bit was on the left, MS bit on the right, I >reworked it so the bit order was more normal. :) Thanks for the offer. I had been looking for a way to program some. But I recently bought a Pro_Log programmer with the correct plug-ins for the 1702s. In addition, it has the serial link so I should be able to read and program them to and from my PC. I haven't tried it yet but it appears to work. I want to get started with it soon. Once I verify that it works I'll also be able to program 1702s for anyone that needs them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 09:44:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: WTB: Data I/O System 19 Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040110181140.83106.qmail@web41612.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200401100952.i0A9pDiV048325@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111104427.007e91e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:11 AM 1/10/04 -0800, you wrote: > >At 12:10 PM 1/10/04 -0800, you wrote:> Is that the board out of a model 900 programmer? It sound like it.> It's actually a PLS-411-IN industrial SBC! :-D > >http://www.digidome.nl/single_board_computers.htm Cool! Joe From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Jan 11 10:33:05 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: from Witchy at "Jan 11, 4 01:38:27 pm" Message-ID: <200401111633.IAA11644@floodgap.com> > > "When we had a Commodore 64 some time ago there was a game on it that > > involved a little plane flying over some buildings i think and your > > plane then tried to level these to get to the next level of the game. > > Can't remember what it was called and if posssible we would like to buy > > a copy of the game for our computer now." > > Rob's already got the C64 version I think, and I also remember Your Computer > doing one of their BASIC listings for the Vic-20. Wasn't the speccy version > called Rampage or summat? Almost sounded like Raid on Bungeling Bay to me. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- smit happens. -------------------------------------------------------------- From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 11 10:35:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: <1073831358.26885.31.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 11 January 2004 14:29 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: C64 game?? > > I've seen various games on other platforms which had the same sort of > concept (Harrier Attack on the speccy springs to mind), but I remember > the graphics on this C64 game being particularly good and it being later > on in the evolution of such games on the 80's 8-bit machines, probably > around 1984 or so. Harrier Attack was shooting at planes and aircraft carriers wasn't it? That long since I've played it..... w From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 07:10:24 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: <1073821788.26884.4.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1073821788.26884.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40014B40.8010902@hotmail.com> Jules Richardson wrote: >Got this from a chap the other day: > > >"When we had a Commodore 64 some time ago there was a game on it that >involved a little plane flying over some buildings i think and your >plane then tried to level these to get to the next level of the game. >Can't remember what it was called and if posssible we would like to buy >a copy of the game for our computer now." > >I remember the darn game - one of my friends had a C64 and I used to >spend hours round there playing it. The graphics blew those of the >speccy I had at the time away :-) > >I just can't remember the name! I seem to remember flying left to right >and dropping bombs on buildings, whilst shooting down enemy planes >flying in from the right. I assume this is the game the guy's talking >about... > >Anyone recall the name for me? > >cheers > >Jules > > > > > > > If your thinking about the one I have for the atari, and it was written for lots of platforms the name was BLUE MAX, It's a diagional side scroller. Jim Davis. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 11 12:07:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: epson hx-20 In-Reply-To: <20040110233151.372b506c.jmw@ptolserv.com> from "jmw@ptolserv.com" at Jan 10, 4 11:31:51 pm Message-ID: > > On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:55:16 +0000 (GMT) > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > IIRC, those are the 1/3rd height Epson drives with linear actuator > > positioners (a bit like a mini-RK05 positioner!). > Yes, 1/3rd height, with a push button on the front (not the more > common lever lock). > > > They were also used in the QX10, and the techincal manual for that > > machine (which I have) contains schematics, etc. > I believe that the TF20 was usable with the QX10 using the extra > parallel interface on the back. If you have the schematics for the drive > that sounds like it would be useful. > > > However, 320K DSDD sounds like a 40 cylinder format to me. Are you > > sure a PC 360K drive can't read them? > Not sure, as the only 5.25" drives I have access to are the two epson > ones in the TF20. Hence the interest in hooking them up to a PC ;) The > drives are definitely 40 cylinder. OK, I've dug out the manual. There is one 4-position DIP switch on the main board (3204700), marked SS1. This sets the drive selects. One side of each switch is commoned (and then goes to one end of R8, pin 29 of the SDF-9401 chip IC4 and pin 15 of the SLA4030COB chip IC5). The other side of each switch goes to one of the drive select lines on the connector. There also seem to be 2 links marked SS2 and SS3. SS3 just selects what the front LED does (drive selected or head load I think). SS2 seems to have something to do with enabling the head psoitioner, I'd leave it alone for the moment. The connector pinouts are standard. On the interface connector, all odd numbers are gorund. The signals are : 6 : Drive Sleect 3 8 : Index 10 : Drive Select 0 12 : Drive Select 1 14 : Drive Select 2 16 : Motor On 18 : Step Direction 20 : Step Pulse 22 : Write Data 24 : Write Gate 26 : Track 0 28 : Write Protext 30 : Read Data 32 : Side Select 34 : Ready. -tony From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 11 12:14:20 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions Message-ID: Thanks to Mr. Finnegan - I have a nice VAXstation 3100 Mod 38 running Hobbyist VMS V7.2 - sitting here whirring away. As I observed to him - it's interesting to have a DEC machine in my collection that weighs *less* than I do. So now my untutored Quesions am: Can this be done: VAXstation --> Ethernet -->[???]<-- Ethernet <-- cablemodem <-- the Net. What adapts Thin Ethernet coax to Cat5? More specifically to download/install freeBSD perhaps... And, furthermore: MY VMS experience was sketchy at best, mostly desultory playing with a uVAX II that Hans now has - and I have no doc at all right now. What is the system called that VMS uses to chain all the DCL commands to auto-execute at startup? I wanna edit a lot of them out - especially right now it's looking for a cluster it can't find, and periodically (every 15 mins) complains of "too few servers". Thirdly/finally: Anyone got a VMS Grey Wall they'd like to unload cheap? I'll pay for the books, packing and shipping to zip 89706 (Carson City, NV). Cheers! John From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Jan 11 12:25:22 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: <1073821788.26884.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > > I just can't remember the name! I seem to remember flying left to right > and dropping bombs on buildings, whilst shooting down enemy planes > flying in from the right. I assume this is the game the guy's talking > about... > > Anyone recall the name for me? > Blue Max. g. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 11 12:29:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, John Lawson wrote: > What adapts Thin Ethernet coax to Cat5? A hub that has both RJ-45 and coax connectors? My main hub is one such. I needed it for the 10Base2 cable segment that connected my voicemail system to the network. I think I have one for you... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jan 11 12:47:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073846220.26885.48.camel@weka.localdomain> > Harrier Attack was shooting at planes and aircraft carriers wasn't it? That > long since I've played it..... yep, same left to right flying, dropping bombs on targets, and enemy planes coming in from the right IIRC - just with aircraft carriers as you say. I have a very hazy memory of a city stage too though. Hmm. Very simple graphics-wise compared to the C64 game I'm thinking of though; I believe Harrier Attack was a lot earlier. cheers Jules From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jan 11 12:40:56 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040111184056.GA26167@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 11, 2004 at 01:14:20PM -0500, John Lawson wrote: > So now my untutored Quesions am: > > Can this be done: > > VAXstation --> Ethernet -->[???]<-- Ethernet <-- cablemodem <-- the Net. Yes > What adapts Thin Ethernet coax to Cat5? Three things come to mind immediately: 1) a media-converter. A box the size of a pack of cards that has two media interfaces. More ordinary ones are 10BaseT to 10BaseFL (fiber), but there are 10Base2 to 10BaseT boxes. These days, if you can locate one, they should be cheap. Once upon a time, they were $75-$100. 2) a sufficiently equipped 10BaseT hub. I have a NetGear 10BaseT hub (not a switch) with 8 10BaseT ports in front, one 10Base2 port and one AUI port in back. I happen to have a 10BaseFL transciever on mine, but that's coincidental. The important part is that all of my ancient, pre-100BaseT devices go through this hub. The hub is attached to my cable modem via an ordinary 100BaseT/10BaseT switch (also NetGear). 3) a router. If you want your own firewall that you control and program, put a 10Base2 card in it and give it its own network. You can have one 100BaseT card in the router for the cable modem side, another 100BaseT card for "modern" hardware, and a thinnet (10Base2) segment for classic stuff. > What is the system called that VMS uses to chain all the DCL commands to > auto-execute at startup? I wanna edit a lot of them out - especially > right now it's looking for a cluster it can't find, and periodically > (every 15 mins) complains of "too few servers". SYS$MANAGER holds lots of goodies, but beware randomly editing things. If you want make the machine *stop* doing things, cutting sections out of system files is usually regarded as bad. There's a way to "uncluster" your machine, but since I've never done it, I can't tell you the simplest way to do it. Even when you want to make your machine *start* doing things at startup that it never did before, there are places to add new commands that don't involve altering system scripts (kinda like rc.local under *BSD), but since I'm not in front of a VMS machine at the moment, I hesitate to name specific files from memory (it's now been 4 months since I did VMS daily... the details evaporate fast when you can't peek ;-) Here's some things I found using "VMS startup customize startup.com" in google: http://www.totse.com/en/zines/nia/nia012.html > Thirdly/finally: Anyone got a VMS Grey Wall they'd like to unload cheap? > I'll pay for the books, packing and shipping to zip 89706 (Carson City, > NV). Not mine. Nor my Orange Wall. Nor my Blue Wall. :-) Besides... the Grey Wall is for VMS 5.x. They went to bound volumes for VMS 6.x and newer. Not as sexy, but a lot smaller. -ethan > > Cheers! > > John > -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-Jan-2004 18:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.9 F (-28.3 C) Windchill -36.6 F (-38.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.6 kts Grid 068 Barometer 683.6 mb (10492. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jan 11 13:07:04 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > Thanks to Mr. Finnegan - I have a nice VAXstation 3100 Mod 38 running > Hobbyist VMS V7.2 - sitting here whirring away. As I observed to him - > it's interesting to have a DEC machine in my collection that weighs *less* > than I do. > > So now my untutored Quesions am: > > Can this be done: > > VAXstation --> Ethernet -->[???]<-- Ethernet <-- cablemodem <-- the Net. > > What adapts Thin Ethernet coax to Cat5? Many older 10Baset hubs have a 10Base2 connector so you could go that route (or cross that bridge), but in the 3100 M38 its probably easier just to use the AUI connector and a 10BaseT MAU. You need to set the little push button in the correct position so the AUI port is activated... If you need a 10BaseT MAU, I have many, for the cost of shipping... > > More specifically to download/install freeBSD perhaps... > You probably mean NetBSD... > > > And, furthermore: MY VMS experience was sketchy at best, mostly > desultory playing with a uVAX II that Hans now has - and I have no doc at > all right now. > > What is the system called that VMS uses to chain all the DCL commands to > auto-execute at startup? I wanna edit a lot of them out - especially > right now it's looking for a cluster it can't find, and periodically > (every 15 mins) complains of "too few servers". > > Thirdly/finally: Anyone got a VMS Grey Wall they'd like to unload cheap? > I'll pay for the books, packing and shipping to zip 89706 (Carson City, > NV). > > > Cheers! > > John > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jan 11 13:09:16 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Fwd: Compaq Portable II available Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040111093858.05d59840@pc> >Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:07:28 -0500 >From: Andy Bloom > >I am interested in selling a Compaq portable II model 2650 w/ two 5 1/2 floppy drives, many floppies, complete MS-DOS 5 software in original package, IBM Disk Operating System Technical Reference Package. The computer starts up when turned on but is missing a few power cables that connect the board to the drive. E-mail an offer to asbsmart@pennswoods.net titled OFFER. If you are not interested could you send this to anyone you think might be? > Thanks, Andy From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Jan 11 13:19:13 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401111419.13604.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 11 January 2004 13:14, John Lawson wrote: > Thanks to Mr. Finnegan - I have a nice VAXstation 3100 Mod 38 running : ) I can answer some of this.. > Hobbyist VMS V7.2 - sitting here whirring away. As I observed to him > - it's interesting to have a DEC machine in my collection that weighs > *less* than I do. > > So now my untutored Quesions am: > > Can this be done: > > VAXstation --> Ethernet -->[???]<-- Ethernet <-- cablemodem <-- the > Net. > > What adapts Thin Ethernet coax to Cat5? You've got about two (simple) options: One involves finding either a box to convert this specifically (I've got one somewhere, it's about the size of a 2U rackmount ethernet hub)... I think it's called a "bridge". Or, you can just find a 10BaseT ethernet hub that has an AUI port and get a 10Base2 (coax) transciever to put on it. The next option, which might be simpler, is to just get an 10BaseT AUI transciever and put it on the VAXstation's AUI port (and make sure to switch it from BNC to the AUI port for networking on the back). > More specifically to download/install freeBSD perhaps... I think you actually want NetBSD (or possibly OpenBSD). I'm pretty sure FreeBSD doesn't run on VAX. > And, furthermore: MY VMS experience was sketchy at best, mostly > desultory playing with a uVAX II that Hans now has - and I have no > doc at all right now. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/ Most to all of the OpenVMS documentation is online there. > What is the system called that VMS uses to chain all the DCL > commands to auto-execute at startup? I wanna edit a lot of them out > - especially right now it's looking for a cluster it can't find, and > periodically (every 15 mins) complains of "too few servers". SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM from what I see on google. My memory also says SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP.COM, so try there as well. > Thirdly/finally: Anyone got a VMS Grey Wall they'd like to unload > cheap? I'll pay for the books, packing and shipping to zip 89706 > (Carson City, NV). Well, that I can't really help you with. I just got my own Orange wall. : ) But, you can look at the docs at the hp site above, which are going to be more up-to-date than anything else. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From aek at spies.com Sun Jan 11 13:26:17 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: SBS/Bit3 Sbus-to-VME , PCI-to-VME, or ISA-to-VME cards Message-ID: <200401111926.i0BJQHdT016456@spies.com> I have NOS cable assemblies. $50 ea plus shipping BTW, SBS wants considerably more than $100 for the cable. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 13:40:02 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: Interesting computer history Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111144002.0086eeb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this while searching the net. . Lots of intersting links here too . Joe From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jan 5 00:44:18 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:19 2005 Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. References: <004601c3d337$cec7f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <001c01c3d87c$0fa32400$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Jay I believe the correct cab. for the 11/45 would be the h-960. thanks ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:58 PM Subject: H960 rack question - ra81, 11/45 etc. > I'm finally starting to look at my options for putting together some of my > DEC gear into complete refurbed systems. I was thinking of using an RA81 > drive with my 11/45. However, best as I can eyeball it, the RA81 drive won't > fit into the H960 rack depth-wise (at least, with a proper back door on it > like mine has - and I want it to be able to close). The RA81 drives I have > are in a tall white corp cabinet, except two are in another H960 rack (which > has no back door). From looking at those two, I don't think a back door (on > my other 960 rack) would close (the two RA81's in the current 960 without > the back door looks like - ummm an amateur job). > > Can someone confirm or deny, before I start going to the grief of racking > heavy drives & such? > > Was also wrestling with the idea of whether to put an 11/34 into a > mid-height corp cab, or an H960. Which is more authentic, or are they both? > I don't recall seeing 34's in white corp cabs. If I did that, it would > probably use RL02's. I forget the disk requirements for a reasonable > RT11/TSX+ system, I think two RL02's may be cutting it close. Any advice? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jan 5 01:10:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive? References: Message-ID: <001d01c3d87c$186914f0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Tony are you talking about the old schul logic? ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Iomec disc drive? > > The DTL already tripped me up once. I had a J/K flip flop with both Q and > > -Q low. Turns out -Q was wired with the output of another gate as an > > apparent ECO (wasn't on the schematic). Sigh. At least with TTL you have > > the clue of the part being open-collector to help you realize someone did > > that. 8^) > > Years ago I was working on a thing called a 'Solatron DTU', which was > basically a data logger add-on for a DVM (it had a 20 channel input > multiplexer, a real time clock, and output boards for a Facit 4070 punch > and an ASR33 IIRC). Anyway, it wa all DTL inside. > > I found a (genuinely) dead JK flip-flop. Found the pinouts from the > schematics (which fortunately I have), and thought I'd found a > pin-compatible TTL replacement. Popped it in, and the darn thing still > didn't work. No, it wasn't a wire-AND connection... It turns out that the > DTL and TTL chips have the same pinout _except_ that Q and Q/ are swapped > round, and that was easy to miss when looking at the databooks..... > > -tony > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jan 5 23:45:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <001e01c3d87c$215c5770$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> oh my Jay! do you have the old iron cab or the alum. one. look at the systems at www.smecc.org on the home page... if it is the dual cab. you can take the two cabs. off the base after taking everything out of them and move it though and then reassemble the cabs. on the base, reload the stuff and viola! it is done... that is the only way we got it into the area it is currently on display.... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) > Giveth: > An old LA36 I got about 5 years ago, never even touched it, just pushed it > into a corner. Tonight I was cleaning out the room where I house "finished > systems", so sitting down for a rest I noticed the easy access door on the > back. Opened it to see what the inside of an LA36 looked like. Neatly > bundled up inside was an 8E async line interface card, complete with cable. > Yay! > > Taketh Away: > After working years on my HP2000 restoration, it's finally done, except for > modifying the rails for the punch - but even with the wrong rails the punch > sits in the rack nicely. So, you're never "done" with a system restoration, > but I'm pretty much "done" with it. So, after cleaning out the room (aka > shrine) it has been destined for all these years, I roll the nice double bay > rack through the basement towards it's hallowed resting place... and stop > cold at the doorway. The rack is too big to fit through the door and into > the room. Not to be easily deterred, I looked around the door jam to see if > I could take the door frame out and make it through. No dice, even if I took > out the door frame. It's right on two studs, and the distance between studs > is about 2 inches short. Tomorrow night I may well contemplate cutting the > bottom of one of the studs off so the anti-tip ledge in front of the rack (a > whole ledge, not a leg - and it's not removeable) can fit through. Hope that > isn't a load bearing stud or whatever. > > *sigh* > > Jay West > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Jan 6 21:51:00 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) References: <001301c3d3f6$83bb6da0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><3FFAF542.74E8351E@msm.umr.edu> <001301c3d4c5$a74ca610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <002101c3d87c$3815c140$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> remember though, a 12 gauge takes less aiming, especially if it has a short barrel! ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: Re: the computer gods giveth, and take away (mild humor/angst) > You wrote.... > > maybe it's a suggestion to put it upstairs so we don't hear it being taken > in > > those dreadful "my basement flooded" stories that I have heard too often. > Only with a crane would it be moved upstairs. It has the eyebolts for it, > and that's the recommended method as per the rack manual :) > > > What can you possibly be doing with the master bedroom that doesn't > > need a warm glowing and blinking object in the corner. > Not a thing *G* > > > Sure it has fans, but if you are a proper NRA member, you have the > > proper ear protection to guard against that. > (looking in the closet) SKS (tricked out), M1, Mosin-Nagant... yeah, I > qualify :) > > J > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 13:58:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Microproccessors in space Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111145819.00873ec0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this while browsing the net. Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 11 14:21:21 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: 11 January 2004 18:14 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions > > Can this be done: > > VAXstation --> Ethernet -->[???]<-- Ethernet <-- cablemodem <-- the Net. Yup. Others have already answered how. My 3100-90 (VMS 7.3) is on the web most of the time, ie when it's powered up :) I'm using an AUI MAU which converts UTP to AUI and plugs straight into said port on the back of the machine. The other end of the cable goes straight into my DSL router. > More specifically to download/install freeBSD perhaps... NetBSD. I had some tremendous fun installing that! One of these days I'll get round to installing PHP/Apache for a smart almost-retro webserver for Binary Dinosaurs :) > What is the system called that VMS uses to chain all the DCL commands to > auto-execute at startup? I wanna edit a lot of them out - especially > right now it's looking for a cluster it can't find, and periodically > (every 15 mins) complains of "too few servers". Oh dear, it's running DECnet/OSI. The main startup file is sys$system:startup.com, but you don't want to go there. All the configurable stuff as far as an end-user is concerned is in sys$manager:systartup_vms.com, but remember not to delete lines in there - comment them out with a $! instead so if Things Break you can reinstate the line easily. Yes VMS has file versions but a lot of people keep the version limit to 2, even in the system directories where it's a Bad Idea. Somewhere in systartup there'll be a line that says $START/NETWORK. Commenting that out will stop DECnet coming up and complaining very vocally about stuff it'll never find. If it was my system I'd do PRODUCT REMOVE DECNET just to get rid of the bloody thing, then if I really needed it running I'd install DECnet Phase IV which just sits there and works. The main networking stuff is done with TCP/IP Services for VMS. Hopefully the hobbyist license covers that. It's worth keeping a copy of the license database file - sys$system:lmf$license.ldb - once you've got that you can blow away the system and start again if there's too much crap on there you don't want/need. Sometimes this is easier than manually deleting things, particularly if you're low on disk space. Also, from the $ prompt type PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT to see what else is installed, though it may not show all 3rd party apps. Also, if it's looking for a cluster then shut it down to get to the dead-sergeant prompt (>>>) and type SET VAXCLUSTER 0 to turn off the clustering software. Once you reboot you'll probably have to edit sys$system:modparams.dat to see if there's a line in there that says SET VAXCLUSTER 2 - comment it out if there is, then do this: $MC SYSGEN SYSGEN> use current SYSGEN> set vaxcluster 0 SYSGEN> write current SYSGEN> write active SYSGEN> exit This will remove the line from the main parameter file, sys$system:params.dat. You're supposed to use AUTOGEN to do this but the way I've just described is much faster :) > Thirdly/finally: Anyone got a VMS Grey Wall they'd like to unload cheap? > I'll pay for the books, packing and shipping to zip 89706 (Carson City, > NV). Others have already pointed at the online docs, but the grey wall ceased to exist after VMS 5.5 didn't it? We certainly stopped getting updates for it after 5.5-2. I've got severalteen docs CDs here but I'm in the UK. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 11 14:22:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: C64 game?? In-Reply-To: <1073846220.26885.48.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 11 January 2004 18:37 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: C64 game?? > > yep, same left to right flying, dropping bombs on targets, and enemy > planes coming in from the right IIRC - just with aircraft carriers as > you say. I have a very hazy memory of a city stage too though. Hmm. Yeah, that's ringing faint bells with me too. > Very simple graphics-wise compared to the C64 game I'm thinking of > though; I believe Harrier Attack was a lot earlier. 1984 wasn't it? I remember the Amscrap 464 port was identical.... cheers w From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sun Jan 11 14:45:29 2004 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions References: Message-ID: <4001B5E9.F4FBBFB2@Vishay.com> John, Your Ethernet question has already been answered. Besides the solution suggested by Sellam, there are "media converters" designed specifically for this purpose. DEC used to deliver Allied Telesyn models with early Alphas that had a native Cat.5 interface only, but needed to be matched to the then-common thinwire networks. For the software question, I do have a grey wall, but only one, and you wouldn't want to break my heart by taking this away, would you? The startup procedure is in one of the directories referred to by the logical name SYS$MANAGER (since you don't run a cluster, you needn't be concerned about which of them), so you can get your hands at it using EDIT SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. If your system wasn't stripped down too far after installation, you may also have the original template of the file - SYSTARTUP_VMS.TEMPLATE - in the same directory. (A file type of .COM means a DCL command procedure on VMS, so it contains readable text like a .BAT file or a shell script - it is not a binary file like a DOS .COM.) Less frequently used and even among system administrators somewhat less known is the startup database, managed with the SYSMAN utility. If this is what you are looking for, try $ MCR SYSMAN SYSMAN> STARTUP SET DATABASE STARTUP$STARTUP_LAYERED SYSMAN> STARTUP SHOW FILES SYSMAN> EXIT $ to see the "components" (scripts or binary programs) to be executed upon startup. On most systems I have seen, however, this list was empty. If there are files, the SHOW FILES command can show more detail if you add the /FULL option. To see what there is besides the STARTUP command level, try HELP inside SYSMAN, too. If you want to see how the system itself is initialized, specify STARTUP SET DATABASE STARTUP$STARTUP_VMS instead of the above. One of the files listed there, VMS$LPBEGIN-050_STARTUP.COM, invokes SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. None of these files is ever changed by any system administrator - these files "belong" to DEC - xxx - COMPAQ - xxxxxx - HP. All components listed in the startup database must be located in the SYS$STARTUP directories (again: no cluster, don't worry about which one). The "too few servers" message is typical for DECnet/OSI: this message is issued when the system wants more time servers (at least three per LAN) to synchronize clocks. Yes, it *can* be annoying, but with a single node configuration, it's harmless. As a quick workaround, try REPLY/DISABLE to turn all operator communication (OPCOM) messages off. If you are looking for VMS documentation, try to search German ebay for articles offered by "mandirali". He recently had several documents to sell, and I bought a pile of books from him (not the ones offered at ebay). Other than as a happy customer, I am not connected... yada yada yada... Besides that, if you have more questions, let me know. Regards, Andreas John Lawson schrieb: > > Thanks to Mr. Finnegan - I have a nice VAXstation 3100 Mod 38 running > Hobbyist VMS V7.2 - sitting here whirring away. As I observed to him - > it's interesting to have a DEC machine in my collection that weighs *less* > than I do. > > So now my untutored Quesions am: > > Can this be done: > > VAXstation --> Ethernet -->[???]<-- Ethernet <-- cablemodem <-- the Net. > > What adapts Thin Ethernet coax to Cat5? > > More specifically to download/install freeBSD perhaps... > > And, furthermore: MY VMS experience was sketchy at best, mostly > desultory playing with a uVAX II that Hans now has - and I have no doc at > all right now. > > What is the system called that VMS uses to chain all the DCL commands to > auto-execute at startup? I wanna edit a lot of them out - especially > right now it's looking for a cluster it can't find, and periodically > (every 15 mins) complains of "too few servers". > > Thirdly/finally: Anyone got a VMS Grey Wall they'd like to unload cheap? > I'll pay for the books, packing and shipping to zip 89706 (Carson City, > NV). > > Cheers! > > John From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sun Jan 11 14:54:55 2004 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: RSTS/E associated layered products References: <20040110.125647.1748.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4001B81F.1B4CE8DD@Vishay.com> jeff.kaneko@juno.com schrieb: > > Hi Guys: > > I got RSTS/E v9.2-10 up and running under emulation, > anybody out there have 'associated layered products'? > > FORTRAN and PASCAL would be nice, for starters . . . > > Jeff Jeff, Don't know about Pascal, but the FORTRAN compilers seem to be the same kit as for RSX. I have FORTRAN-77 on a RL02, however it might be somewhat difficult to transfer the kit to an Internet-connected machine or one with a CD burner... If you cannot find FORTRAN somewhere else, and if you are sure you won't violate any license terms, contact me off-list, and we can try to figure something out. Regards, Andreas From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Jan 11 15:17:07 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions Message-ID: <0401112117.AA07992@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Witchy wrote: > Also, if it's looking for a cluster then shut it down to get to the > dead-sergeant prompt (>>>) and type SET VAXCLUSTER 0 to turn off the > clustering software. The console ROM has no such command. The ROM knows nothing about VMS and clusters. MS From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 11 15:40:31 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Thanks for all the VMS info! Message-ID: Thanks all who have given me so very much Good Information - hours of fun! It's a good thing that I had a bit of prior VMS exposure... of course the thing that becomes apparent is that I'd like to get some actual programs running, as opposed to just mucking about with the OS, however I enjoy that too... I'll figure the Ethernet connections out - and since there is a functioning telnet client that I've already run... I'll get NetBSD or some flavor of some *ix.... Also I downloaded all the pinouts and cable connections, so I'll also have to get a graphics monitor attached - after I see if I've actually got a card of some kind installed... Thanks again to all, and I'm sure there will be a few more [(few)exp10] questions but I seem to be in the right place for that... Cheers John From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 11 16:22:11 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004b01c3d891$5c4243d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I just noticed something for the first time in my VARM. > According to table 11.1, the MicroVAX-I supports the VAX's > PDP-11 emulation mode. The only other models that also > support this are the 11/7xx series, the 82xx, 83xx, and 86xx > systems--and they're all rather larger than a MicroVAX-I. My VARM states, on page 378 (in Appendix B, if you have a different version) that the uVAX I does NOT have PDP-11 compatibility mode. Mine's the 1987 version that has Figure 11.1 but no Table 11.1. Chapter 11 is "Architectural Subsetting". Regardless of what any book says, I'd be stunned if they squeezed compatibility mode into the uVAX I. AFAIK, none of the chip-based VAXen have compatibility mode. Also AFAIK, only the VAX-11/7xx series includes compatibility mode (although you need to know that the VAX 8600 was going to be the VAX-11/790 for this simple rule to work :-)). The VAX 8200 (Scorpio) and the VAX 8800/8700/8500/8530 (Nautilus) do NOT include compatibility mode. Finally, if you drop the right boards into a BA123 to make a uVAX I, it's not *much* smaller than a VAX-11/725 :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From classiccmp at microvax.org Sun Jan 11 16:26:15 2004 From: classiccmp at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 Was: Re: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <004b01c3d891$5c4243d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <004b01c3d891$5c4243d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200401112226.15984.classiccmp@microvax.org> On Sunday 11 Jan 2004 10:22 pm, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Also AFAIK, only the VAX-11/7xx series includes > compatibility mode (although you need to know that > the VAX 8600 was going to be the VAX-11/790 for > this simple rule to work :-)). > Antonio Reminds me of a question that runs through my head occcasionally - did DEC have a real reason for not calling it the /790 and instead going with an arbitary model number? alex/melt From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 11 17:07:10 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 Was: Re: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <200401112226.15984.classiccmp@microvax.org> Message-ID: <005501c3d897$a499ccb0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Reminds me of a question that runs through my head > occcasionally - did DEC > have a real reason for not calling it the /790 and instead > going with an > arbitary model number? Well the VAX 8600 was very, very late by the time it actually came out. There were rumours that they'd had real trouble with the timings and had to slow it down to achieve reliable operation (the VAX 8650 follow-on was supposed to be when they actually sorted that out). So my guess is that they wanted to make it seem all shiny and new, rather than being 11/780 design redone in ECL. But since it's marketing, I guess we'll never know :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 11 17:10:54 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: <1073764087.20358.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <005601c3d898$29ee7d70$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I only had the RA81 user manual with me today - should be > able to get hold of the service manual for next weekend. The RA82 User Guide has a table somewhere that lists what the fault codes mean. I assume that the RA81 User Guide also has such a table - if you scanned the manual and made it available to use then we'd know for sure :-) Same goes for the service guide ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 17:31:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: FA: RCA 1802 Cosmac manuals and DEC cards/parts Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Cleaning out some of the duplicates and other unused stuff. Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 11 17:38:25 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: <0401112117.AA07992@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Sokolov > Sent: 11 January 2004 21:17 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Egregious VMS newbie questions > > > Witchy wrote: > > > Also, if it's looking for a cluster then shut it down to get to the > > dead-sergeant prompt (>>>) and type SET VAXCLUSTER 0 to turn off the > > clustering software. > > The console ROM has no such command. The ROM knows nothing about VMS and > clusters. Do you have a VAX that doesn't know about clusters? Of course the ROM knows about VMS and clusters! It's a bloody VAX! I don't suppose you'll remember all the talking when Alpha VMS was released and people wondered whether the Alpha firmware would expect VMSCLUSTER instead of VAXCLUSTER? I spent 18 years working with VAXen and Alphas so I suspect I might know what I'm talking about. -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jan 11 18:16:10 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: <0401112117.AA07992@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Witchy wrote: > > > Also, if it's looking for a cluster then shut it down to get to the > > dead-sergeant prompt (>>>) and type SET VAXCLUSTER 0 to turn off the > > clustering software. > > The console ROM has no such command. The ROM knows nothing about VMS and > clusters. VAXen that were part of a cluster *can* have an NVRAM setting that tells them their node ID, which they need to correctly address the (shared) system disks... this happens a lot with shared-DSSI clusters. I cant remember what the name of the setting was. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 11 18:17:46 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005701c3d8a1$81a9d0b0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Do you have a VAX that doesn't know about clusters? Of course > the ROM knows about VMS and clusters! It's a bloody VAX! I > don't suppose you'll remember all the talking when Alpha VMS > was released and people wondered whether the Alpha firmware > would expect VMSCLUSTER instead of VAXCLUSTER? > > I spent 18 years working with VAXen and Alphas so I suspect I > might know what I'm talking about. You should never post when a Red Dwarf re-run is on :-) The console knows nothing about anything really. If you have OpenVMS on the disk you can boot it such that it will dawdle in SYCONFIG (or rather, an almost-equivalent) and have a chat with you and that's where you would twiddle VAXCLUSTER and friends. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 11 18:38:06 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I In-Reply-To: <004b01c3d891$5c4243d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <004b01c3d891$5c4243d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I just noticed something for the first time in my VARM. > > According to table 11.1, the MicroVAX-I supports the VAX's > > PDP-11 emulation mode. The only other models that also > > support this are the 11/7xx series, the 82xx, 83xx, and 86xx > > systems--and they're all rather larger than a MicroVAX-I. > > My VARM states, on page 378 (in Appendix B, if you have a > different version) that the uVAX I does NOT have PDP-11 > compatibility mode. > > Mine's the 1987 version that has Figure 11.1 but no > Table 11.1. Chapter 11 is "Architectural Subsetting". > > Regardless of what any book says, I'd be stunned if > they squeezed compatibility mode into the uVAX I. Me too. I've got the 1991 version of the book. Table 11.1 on page 417 lists both the MicroVAX-I/D and MicroVAX-I/G as having support for PDP-11 mode. I did misread the lines for the 82xx and 83xx processors; it's only the 86xx series which have them. So one of those versions of the VARM is wrong about the MicroVAX-I, I'm guessing it's probably mine. I suspect this because, at the back of the same book on page 538, under the B.2.6 MicroVAX-I heading, it states, "The MicroVAX-I processor includes some of the optional string instructions (CMPC3, LOCC, SCANC, SKPC, and SPANC) but does not include any of the optional processor registers or PDP-11 compatibility mode." -brian. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 11 22:44:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) Message-ID: Tonight on HGTV I appear on the show "Hey, Remember!" where I'll be talking about old computers. It appears locally at different times so check your local listings. http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hhey/episode/0,1806,HGTV_11739_29444,00.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 11 23:27:44 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 Message-ID: Ih ave a fairly old C64 (sn is about 32,000) with an odd logo - a 6 and a 4 smashed together, sort of. There is a picture of the style of machine about 1/4 down the page at: http://commodore.ca/products/c64/commodore_64.htm Every C64 I played with as a kid looked like the one at the top of the screen, with the rainbow logo. When did Commodore switch? On a side note, response for the 2400 baud WE modems has been pretty low (zero, actually). I would rather not scrap these things out, although I may lug a pair over to RCS. I received a little more info: > Seems to me that these were not specifically for secure voice - > they could be used, connecteded to a crypto set like a KG-13, > for uses like AUTODIN trunks. Neat stuff. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 12 03:26:39 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli > Sent: 12 January 2004 05:28 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Old Commodore 64 > > > Ih ave a fairly old C64 (sn is about 32,000) with an odd logo - a 6 and a > 4 smashed together, sort of. There is a picture of the style of machine > about 1/4 down the page at: > > http://commodore.ca/products/c64/commodore_64.htm > > Every C64 I played with as a kid looked like the one at the top of the > screen, with the rainbow logo. When did Commodore switch? Interesting! I thought those machines were purely marketing and demo mock-ups used for publicity and advertising. Can you do some pictures of it? cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From barrie at precisionmicro.co.nz Sun Jan 11 17:45:34 2004 From: barrie at precisionmicro.co.nz (Barrie Carruthers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: HP85 CPU Message-ID: <001101c3d89d$02185500$0a01a8c0@cadpc> Hi am looking for an hp 85 cpu I have been hunting the net , in hopes of finding one , am also looking for an HP 85 service rom 00085-15006 the cpu was made by capricorn , lots of differen't definitions or the cpu on the internet. is there possibly a modern chip that could be used in place of it ? any help or information would be appreciated thanks Graham Robinson IT Manager Agtronics ltd graham.r@agtronics.co.nz From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Jan 12 02:58:30 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: <1073774368.20358.36.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1073774368.20358.36.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1073897346.32276.4.camel@pluto> On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 22:39, Jules Richardson wrote: > Anyone know if the bearings on these units at all servicable? I'd expect > not, but I suppose it's possible given their age and serviceability. > > cheers > > Jules I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the bearings out. You might even be able to put it back together when you're done ;-) I seem to recall, from taking apart very dead big DEC disk drives, that the spindle ran in fairly boring ball races. If you get them out, you can check for wear and play. There will be a code stamped on them that you can use to order a replacement. Take it to your friendly neighbourhood motor factor or specialist bearing stockist. Gordon. From havenot at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 11 02:34:09 2004 From: havenot at sbcglobal.net (havenot@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: IBM Manuals and Repair books Message-ID: <000801c3d81d$b0dcafd0$8b778d42@austin> Dear Sir, I am seeking a place to sell my fathers IBM's manuals and repair books. They have everything needed and mainly for mainframes, which seem to be the older models or larger computers, so it appears. If you have any idea of places, I would be thankful. I know my dad would not like to see them trashed, and they would help to cover his bills. Thank you for your help. Sincerely, Paul From mike at ambientdesign.com Mon Jan 12 04:48:49 2004 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 References: Message-ID: <00a101c3d8f9$aa54db10$3d00a8c0@falco> > > Ih ave a fairly old C64 (sn is about 32,000) with an odd logo - a 6 and a > > 4 smashed together, sort of. There is a picture of the style of machine > > about 1/4 down the page at: > > http://commodore.ca/products/c64/commodore_64.htm > > Every C64 I played with as a kid looked like the one at the top of the > > screen, with the rainbow logo. When did Commodore switch? > Interesting! I thought those machines were purely marketing and demo > mock-ups used for publicity and advertising. Can you do some pictures of it? I have one of these too - I believe it's just a German assembled C64, they seemed to have slightly different badging/colouring to the regular ones. If that's not correct, I'd be interested to hear more info! Mike. From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jan 12 09:09:25 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions Message-ID: <040112100925.24d8e@splab.cas.neu.edu> well, since the major questions have been answered, here is my two cent's worth. Yes, most of the startup stuff is in either SYS$MANGER or SYS$SYSTEM, but at least on the systems I run (5.x and 6.x) the best logical is SYS$STARTUP, as it appears that just sometimes things get put in SYS$SPECIFIC and sometimes in SYS$COMMON, and if you always use SYS$STARTUP, then the logical path to search will always be the same. Of course, you may not want to learn too much of this if you are going to the "other" operating system. Joe Heck From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Jan 12 08:43:58 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions References: <200401111419.13604.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <4002B2AE.45A74008@comcast.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Sunday 11 January 2004 13:14, John Lawson wrote: > > So now my untutored Quesions am: > > > > Can this be done: > > > > VAXstation --> Ethernet -->[???]<-- Ethernet <-- cablemodem <-- the > > Net. > > > > What adapts Thin Ethernet coax to Cat5? > > You've got about two (simple) options: > > > The next option, which might be simpler, is to just get an 10BaseT AUI > transciever and put it on the VAXstation's AUI port (and make sure to > switch it from BNC to the AUI port for networking on the back). > I've got a couple running around. E-mail me privately... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Mon Jan 12 09:35:42 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: WTB: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card Message-ID: Hello- I am looking for a Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card. This is an 8 bit ISA card that was made in 1991. I had one but it no longer works. Let me know if anyone has one they are willing to part with. -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 12 10:10:49 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: IBM Manuals and Repair books In-Reply-To: <000801c3d81d$b0dcafd0$8b778d42@austin> Message-ID: > I am seeking a place to sell my fathers IBM's manuals and repair books. > They have everything needed and mainly for mainframes, which seem to be > the older models or larger computers, so it appears. If you have any idea > of places, I would be thankful. I know my dad would not like to see them > trashed, and they would help to cover his bills. Thank you for your help. What models do the manuals cover? This is fairly important, as technical manuals for machines like the System 360 and 370 (processor model numbers are in the 2000 and 3000 series), and old old machines like the 1401, 7090, etc. are worth a great deal more than manuals for the minicomputers (generally with model numbers in the 4000 and 5000 series). I don't think you need to worry about trashing them - there are plenty of IBM fans out there that would like a collection like this. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From paulpenn at knology.net Mon Jan 12 10:25:46 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) References: Message-ID: <004101c3d928$bb8b65a0$6501a8c0@knology.net> Sellam; You were a little late with that notice: the message was dated 4 AM Monday for a Sunday show. The episode number is HHEY-109, but it's not listed in their "on-demand" section for viewing shows. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 11:44 PM Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) > > Tonight on HGTV I appear on the show "Hey, Remember!" where I'll be > talking about old computers. It appears locally at different times so > check your local listings. > > http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hhey/episode/0,1806,HGTV_11739_29444,00.html > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From paulpenn at knology.net Mon Jan 12 10:25:46 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) References: Message-ID: <004101c3d928$bb8b65a0$6501a8c0@knology.net> Sellam; You were a little late with that notice: the message was dated 4 AM Monday for a Sunday show. The episode number is HHEY-109, but it's not listed in their "on-demand" section for viewing shows. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 11:44 PM Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) > > Tonight on HGTV I appear on the show "Hey, Remember!" where I'll be > talking about old computers. It appears locally at different times so > check your local listings. > > http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hhey/episode/0,1806,HGTV_11739_29444,00.html > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From evan947 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 10:42:07 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: BOUNTY: Looking for Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040112164207.75099.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> You have any more specs sort of info? --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Joe wrote: > > > Do you have pictures of any of this stuff? I'd > help to know what it > > looked like. > > I'm sorry, I don't. The system it went into > (Chrylon) is a big-assed > console type thingy that you would find in a > television studio (like when > they draw plays over the screen during a Football > game). > > The applications for the power supply, however, > could have been anything. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jan 12 10:59:43 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, Any idea when it will re-air? My Tivo (US Pacific, DirectTV) sez the next airing is 1/18, but it has no description so I can't be sure if it's the same episode. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:44 PM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) > > > > Tonight on HGTV I appear on the show "Hey, Remember!" where I'll be > talking about old computers. It appears locally at different times so > check your local listings. > > http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hhey/episode/0,1806,HGTV_11739_2944 > 4,00.html > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 12 11:12:23 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:21 2005 Subject: Husky Hunter for sale in the UK Message-ID: Hi folks, I've been contacted by someone with the above wee machine for sale. The Huskies were very ruggedised PCs weren't they? I can't remember that much about them, but if you're interested contact the seller directly - Ross at Bridgwaterboy@aol.com. Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 12 12:04:10 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Programming 1702s Message-ID: <200401121804.KAA10681@clulw009.amd.com> Hi For those on the west coast, I can do 1702A's on my SIM-4 and MP7. I can use Intel HEX or binaries as input ( or BNPF as files if needed ). If the Data I/O 19 that I just got works for these as well, I'll be able to do them there. I currently do 2708's on my ByteSaver board. I also have some old Intel UPP units but haven't had the time to check them out. Dwight >From: Joe > >At 09:42 AM 1/10/04 -0800, Neil wrote: >>I've seen a couple of threads discussing the need to program 1702s. If >>anyone needs a small qty of 1702A programmed I can do this. I've got an old >>1702A programmer that I use to program EPROMs for my MMD1. >> >>The programmer is Tenor Model 763 - it was used originally to program >>sequence ROMs for industrial control. I've repaired it and made some >>modifications to it, it's a manual programmer, you enter each byte on toggle >>switches, originally the LS bit was on the left, MS bit on the right, I >>reworked it so the bit order was more normal. :) > > Thanks for the offer. I had been looking for a way to program some. But >I recently bought a Pro_Log programmer with the correct plug-ins for the >1702s. In addition, it has the serial link so I should be able to read and >program them to and from my PC. I haven't tried it yet but it appears to >work. I want to get started with it soon. Once I verify that it works I'll >also be able to program 1702s for anyone that needs them. > > Joe > > From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Jan 12 12:02:37 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Apple A/UX In-Reply-To: <00c001c3d759$40d332f0$0500fea9@game> References: <00c001c3d759$40d332f0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: You might try contacting Jim Jagielski . I used to do some A/UX development but it was in the V2 and V3 era. Jim used to have a great A/UX archive, though I don't see it available right this moment. John At 4:08 AM -0500 1/10/04, Teo Zenios wrote: >The last release of apple A/UX was 3.1 that came with my AWS95 >machine, before that there was A/UX 2.0 for the IIfx and other >machines in that era. What I want to know is was A/UX 1.0 ever >released and what systems/requirements did it need to run? Until >recently there was very little information on A/UX 2.0 on the web >and I still havnt seen anything on 1.0 at all (3.0 is well >documented). > >If it does exists its probably 14+ years old. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Jan 12 12:18:15 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: MFM Drive Cables Message-ID: <1073930888.10727.9.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> I'm in pretty urgent need of a set of MFM drive cables. If anyone has any they want to give up, please let me know! From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 12 12:16:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > Ih ave a fairly old C64 (sn is about 32,000) with an odd logo - a 6 and a > > 4 smashed together, sort of. There is a picture of the style of machine > > about 1/4 down the page at: > > > > http://commodore.ca/products/c64/commodore_64.htm > > > > Every C64 I played with as a kid looked like the one at the top of the > > screen, with the rainbow logo. When did Commodore switch? > > Interesting! I thought those machines were purely marketing and demo > mock-ups used for publicity and advertising. Can you do some pictures of it? I've got at least one of these as well. I realized it was somewhat unique but I didn't think it was terribly special. My guess was that all the earliest models had this emblem. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 12 12:26:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: <004101c3d928$bb8b65a0$6501a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Paul Pennington wrote: > You were a little late with that notice: the message was dated 4 AM I didn't find out about it myself until yesterday. Sorry for posting so late about it :( > Monday for a Sunday show. The episode number is HHEY-109, but it's not > listed in their "on-demand" section for viewing shows. Well, if everyone on ClassicCmp e-mailed in to demand to see it again, I'll bet they'd queue it up. Also request HHEY-104, which was the other show I did on video games: http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hhey/episode/0,,HGTV_11739_29443,00.html I missed that one myself :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 12 12:27:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Any idea when it will re-air? My Tivo (US Pacific, DirectTV) sez the next > airing is 1/18, but it has no description so I can't be sure if it's the > same episode. The episode last night had no desciption either, though the one they showed right after did, so maybe it is the same episode. I'll contact the show producers and ask them if it'll ever repeat (I'm sure it will eventually). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 12 12:47:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 12 January 2004 18:17 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Old Commodore 64 > > I've got at least one of these as well. I realized it was somewhat unique > but I didn't think it was terribly special. My guess was that all the > earliest models had this emblem. It's just nice to know they exist and I've got a chance of getting one; aside from the MAX and GS it's really the only other C64 I need to complete the collection.....I hope :) According to Ian at commodore.ca there were a few hundred golden C64s to commemorate the millionth built so I've added that to the list too, but much further down...heh... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jan 12 12:53:00 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > the collection.....I hope :) According to Ian at commodore.ca there were a > few hundred golden C64s to commemorate the millionth built so I've added > that to the list too, but much further down...heh... *THAT* one I do have. Obviously, its not made of gold, but yeah, it's very cute... its in storage with all of my commodore stuff.. about 7 crates of it :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jan 12 12:56:17 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! Message-ID: You know what is REALLY fucked-up? Coming back home here (Cali), and finding that during the move from one office building to another, people decided to not move ALL your stuff. Waaa! They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" *cries* Sellam, be prepared to spend several hours comforting me :( Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jan 12 12:57:37 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: *sniff* BA123 wanted :( Message-ID: See previous message... for pickup, Santa Clara area, or from LA area, or Arizona next week.. Chuck, if you still read this list: yeah, those were the machines I got from you :( --f From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Jan 12 13:02:59 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) References: Message-ID: Anyone collect antique sound cards? What would be considered a "Classic?" Here's my list: E-Mu/Digidesign MacProteus - NuBus card for Mac, a whole Proteus sound module on a card. One of the all time classic synthesizer modules. E-Mu Drumulator - Early 80's drum machine with computer (Apple II!) interface Gravis UltraSound - Enough said... Digidesign Samplecell - Sampler card, I've always wanted to play with one of these. Ensoniq SoundScape - Early hardware wavetable card. 68000 controlled (had to load the firmware from DOS before booting into Linux to get it to work) Nice sounding samples for it's time. Creative Labs SoundBlaster 16 - The old standard, now superceeded by AC'97. MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum - An early SoundBlaster competitor, arguably much better quality sound output My collection: Ensoniq SoundScape ISA - The original model Ensoniq AudioPCI - ES1370 model, interesting because you can use SoundBlaster PCI64 drivers with it, it's the same card :) MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum 16 NuBus - One of the first Mac sound cards, cool breakout box with PC joystick port Creative Labs 3doBlaster - 3DO game console on an ISA card. No drivers or anything, but it's so wierd it's cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van Mersbergen, Ken" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:35 AM Subject: WTB: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card > Hello- > > I am looking for a Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card. This is an 8 bit ISA card > that was made in 1991. > > I had one but it no longer works. > > Let me know if anyone has one they are willing to part with. > > -Ken V. > > > *************************************************************** > This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or > used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, > disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the > sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. > *************************************************************** > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Jan 12 13:07:59 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! References: Message-ID: Eeeg, I'm putting a property sticker on the MicroVAX 2000 I use as a monitor stand at work... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 1:56 PM Subject: waaaah! > You know what is REALLY fucked-up? > > Coming back home here (Cali), and finding that during the > move from one office building to another, people decided > to not move ALL your stuff. > > Waaa! > > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" > > *cries* > > Sellam, be prepared to spend several hours comforting me :( > > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > > From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Jan 12 13:03:11 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan 12, 04 07:56:17 pm Message-ID: <200401121903.OAA27269@wordstock.com> And thusly Fred N. van Kempen spake: > > You know what is REALLY fucked-up? > > Coming back home here (Cali), and finding that during the > move from one office building to another, people decided > to not move ALL your stuff. > > Waaa! > > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" Who are *these* people and why are they still employed?! How do they plan to reimburse you?? -Bryan Pope > > *cries* > > Sellam, be prepared to spend several hours comforting me :( > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Jan 12 13:15:44 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401121115.44998.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Fred, What a bummer!!! Lyle On Monday 12 January 2004 10:56, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > You know what is REALLY fucked-up? > > Coming back home here (Cali), and finding that during the > move from one office building to another, people decided > to not move ALL your stuff. > > Waaa! > > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" > > *cries* > > Sellam, be prepared to spend several hours comforting me :( > > Fred -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Jan 12 13:22:49 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: MFM Drive Cables Message-ID: <0401121922.AA01028@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Christopher McNabb wrote: > I'm in pretty urgent need of a set of MFM drive cables. If anyone has > any they want to give up, please let me know! Why not just make them yourself? This way no one has to give them up and everyone can have as many as he needs! MS From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jan 12 14:17:22 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: MFM Drive Cables Message-ID: <040112151722.24d8e@splab.cas.neu.edu> I have tons, but do you want the one with the twist between the drives? Also, do you FEDEX next morning? or ground? and where are you? I am in Boston Joe Heck From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jan 12 13:26:39 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: <200401121903.OAA27269@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > Who are *these* people and why are they still employed?! How do they > plan to reimburse you?? We have a shared office space, so I cant fire them :( .. they're just other people running their own show, like I do.. just using a shared space *sigh* --f From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Jan 12 13:30:16 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah!class Message-ID: <0401121930.AA01073@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" > > *cries* Can you sue them for the replacement cost? The replacement cost would of course be the amount necessary to create a new Digital Equipment Corporation, to build new factories and hire new workers to manufacture new BA123, new original DEC disks and boards, as well as the necessary amount to buy back all designs and schematics and rights from HP, etc. Sue them for that amount and then build the new factories and the new hardware! MS From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 12 13:31:39 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) References: Message-ID: <010a01c3d942$b38fcac0$0500fea9@game> I have a few older soundcards in my old game machines (still in use) These include: Gravis Ultrasound Max ISA (upgraded from .5 to 1mb, had to kill a video card for the ram) Gravis Ultrasound PnP ISA (with 8mb ram) Soundblaster 16 PnP ISA (with a Yamaha dbx50 midi addon card) Soundscape ISA (the original long card resold by reveal) Soundscape PnP ISA (used in gateway machines) Soundblaster Pro 2.0 ISA The soundscapes are not in use at the moment, have the SB 2 pro and Ultrasound Max in my 386/40 game rig and the SB 16 dbx50 Gravis PnP are in my p200mmx game rig. Its a pain configuring multiple soundcards in one machine but once its setup it makes retro gaming fun and 100% compatible. A pair of Sounblaster 64's (one is in my server and other answers my phone) And a handfull of the Aureal sq2500 chipped PCI soundcards Still havnt found anything for a nubus mac that doesnt cost alot just to tinker around. I have a few older video cards as well. From John.Mustain at exactsoftware.com Mon Jan 12 12:47:12 2004 From: John.Mustain at exactsoftware.com (John Mustain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: CPT 8000 Message-ID: <597A7696D93DCF44BE1B2B1252261ACB040D41AC@nl000nt02.exactsoftware.com> Hi Adrian, I read your posting from classcmp.org which read as follows: Hi folks, Anyone have any info on the subject beast here? In fact, does anybody want one? I've got said twin 8" floppy drive monster here and it doesn't fit in with my museum since it isn't a home computer. It also doesn't have a keyboard, but it powers up and asks nicely for a program disk. All I can find is that CPT Corp were based in Eden Prairie, Michigan, were founded in 1971 by Dick Eichhorn and ceased to exist in the early 1990s. The Babbage institute has a CPT 8000 and the picture there is pretty much what the 8520 looks like. Only it has a keyboard :) The 8520 is an Intel 8080-powered machine, and I only know that because I took it apart. Google searches only turn up people offering a data transfer service, so either there aren't many left or it's just not a very interesting machine! Like I say, free to a good home but it's HEAVY, maybe 50-60lbs heavy. I could sure use the space it takes up and I don't want to put it back in the tip.... I thought that you might be interested to know that I used to work for CPT (from 1980 - 1987) and was there (and worked in production) while the 8000 series was being manufactured. A couple of corrections to your information: 1. CPT was based in Eden Prairie Minnesota, not Michigan. 2. CPT was founded by Dean Scheff, not Dick Eichorn. Dean started the company in 1971, and the original product was a cassette tape base memory add-on for IBM Selectric typewriters (The name CPT originally meant Cassette Power Typing). As you already know, the CPT 8000 series (8000, 8100, et al) was a dedicated word processor. The beauty was in it's 14" portrait oriented screen. This screen was white with black characters and had a very high scan rate (for the day). The 8000 perfectly mimicked a sheet of paper being scrolled through an electric typewriter and was therefore very comfortable for most office workers to use. CPT had other products like the 6000 (a low powered, half screen version of the 8000), the Diskpack (sp? I don't remember how we spelled that shared disk system, the Phoenix (word processing with graphics) and the 9000 series (a low profile replacement for the 8000 series that utilized the Intel 8086 processor. If I dig into my archives I could probably find printed articles and sales brochures, let me know if you would be interested in any scanned images of this information. John D Mustain Exact Software * john.mustain@exactsoftware.com * www.exact-software.com * 800.468.0834 x271 * 333 East Center St. - Marion, OH 43302 PS, as I was writing this email to you I was enjoying some coffee from my 1986 vintage CPT 1971-186 15 Years of the Best cup that was given to all CPT employees at the time. I've used it nearly every working day since it was given to me. Later! From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Mon Jan 12 13:13:01 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan "12, " 2004 "07:56:17" pm Message-ID: <200401121913.MAA18307@atlantis.clogic-int.com> I would personally be out for blood at that point... -- John Willis Coherent Logic Development willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Mon Jan 12 13:24:30 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: HP85 CPU Message-ID: <200401121924.i0CJOUv9011513@king.cs.drexel.edu> "Barrie Carruthers" wrote: > Hi am looking for an hp 85 cpu I don't think much of your chances of finding just the chip. There are many of them around, but in most cases they are attached to an HP Series 80 machine. > the cpu was made by capricorn , lots of differen't definitions > or the cpu on the internet. The chip was made by HP. Its product name was Capricorn. > is there possibly a modern chip that could be used in place of it ? Ha! The HP Series 80 architecture specifies 4 12V clocks! and 6V logic. However, since we are talking about 20 year old technology, I am sure you can EMULATE an HP-85 CPU using a modern processor. > any help or information would be appreciated First a little self-promotion: lots of info on the Series 80 may be found at www.series80.org, but the most important reference is the HP-85 assembler manual (its in the CDROM collection of the Museum of HP Calculators along with the HP-85 service manual: http://www.hpmuseum.org) I have the HP-86 assembler manual, but I have not got around to scanning it yet. There are a couple of HP Journal articles on the Series 80 (also in the CDROM collection above), e.g. HP Journal Aug 1980, pp. 18-22 (brief discussion of the chip set). HP Journal Jul 1980, (whole issue dedicated to the HP-85). HP Journal Dec 1982, (article on the HP-86/87 memory architecture). HP Journal Jun 1983, (discusses HP-75 which has a CMOS version of the series 80 processor architecture) **vp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 12 14:17:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: CPT 8000 In-Reply-To: <597A7696D93DCF44BE1B2B1252261ACB040D41AC@nl000nt02.exactsoftware.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Mustain > Sent: 12 January 2004 18:47 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: CPT 8000 Hi John, > I thought that you might be interested to know that I used to work for > CPT (from 1980 - 1987) and was there (and worked in production) while > the 8000 series was being manufactured. Excellent! You're the 2nd CPT employee that's found me. Someone called Josh on another messageboard said his Mum worked for CPT and wrote a lot of their applications - does a woman like that jog any memory for you? > A couple of corrections to your information: > > 1. CPT was based in Eden Prairie Minnesota, not Michigan. > > 2. CPT was founded by Dean Scheff, not Dick Eichorn. Dean started the > company in 1971, and the original product was a cassette tape base > memory add-on for IBM Selectric typewriters (The name CPT originally > meant Cassette Power Typing). Thanks :) I know I shouldn't believe what I read in the online press, which is where my info came from, but when it's all you've got..... > shared disk system, the Phoenix (word processing with graphics) and the > 9000 series (a low profile replacement for the 8000 series that utilized > the Intel 8086 processor. I've added that to my CPT page but I'll need your go-ahead to put it on the web. I was planning to pass this machine onto another collector but now that more and more info is coming in about it I have to keep it :) Hells, one of these days I might even find a keyboard for it! > If I dig into my archives I could probably find printed articles and > sales brochures, let me know if you would be interested in any scanned > images of this information. Yes please, John. That'll be great. > PS, as I was writing this email to you I was enjoying some coffee from > my 1986 vintage CPT 1971-186 15 Years of the Best cup that was given to > all CPT employees at the time. I've used it nearly every working day > since it was given to me. Heh! I still rue the day an unfortunate incident meant one of my Digital mugs became an 8-bit item :-/ Thanks! -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 12 14:23:14 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 12 January 2004 19:27 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: waaaah! > > > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > Who are *these* people and why are they still employed?! How do they > > plan to reimburse you?? > We have a shared office space, so I cant fire them :( .. they're > just other people running their own show, like I do.. just using a > shared space I'd be asking why they were chucking stuff out of your bit of the shared space! Or is it *really* shared with everyone's stuff everywhere? cheers w From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Jan 12 14:26:35 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: MFM Drive Cables In-Reply-To: <040112151722.24d8e@splab.cas.neu.edu> References: <040112151722.24d8e@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <400302FB.7090900@4mcnabb.net> TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: >I have tons, but do you want the one with the twist between the drives? > >Also, do you FEDEX next morning? or ground? and where are you? I >am in Boston > >Joe Heck > > > > These will be connecting an RQDX3 to an RD54 so no twist is necessary. Ground is fine. I am in Blacksburg VA. How do you want me to pay for the shipping? From india_50 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 13:47:59 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: help with a classic comp (NEC V20) Message-ID: <20040112194759.30920.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com> i could lay my hands on an old NEC V20(8088 i guess) comp (a Hitachi Motherboard i guess no. HIL8) recently. it must be atleast 15-20yrs old. it does hv all its components and interfacing cards along with its bios. here lies the problem. i don't hv any idea if it works or not. the pwrsupply works for sure (i checked). the monochrme monitor that i got with it does not work. where should i start checking if it is working, if the bios, processor and other chips ar in good condition? i hv no idea.... kindly help. Subs ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jan 12 14:45:07 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > We have a shared office space, so I cant fire them :( .. they're > > just other people running their own show, like I do.. just using a > > shared space > > I'd be asking why they were chucking stuff out of your bit of the shared > space! Or is it *really* shared with everyone's stuff everywhere? Well, my stuff was in my rooms, but they had to move to another building- and I was in Europe. So, my stuff was moved without me being there, which is OK.. just that they shouldn't have assumed anything about the stuff. Ahwell, guess I will eventually be able to find replacements for em.. but yeah, it sucks.. bigtime. --f From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jan 12 15:01:17 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: <005601c3d898$29ee7d70$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <005601c3d898$29ee7d70$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <1073940652.28224.53.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 23:10, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I only had the RA81 user manual with me today - should be > > able to get hold of the service manual for next weekend. > > The RA82 User Guide has a table somewhere that lists what > the fault codes mean. I assume that the RA81 User Guide > also has such a table It does... like I said I only realised that the front panel lights were menaingful for diagnostics when I'd run out of time to play with things - d'oh! I did bring the manual home with me so have it here; but looking at the table now I'm almost certainly going to be looking at a "Spin error" when I get back on site next weekend. Nearly everything else I can either rule out as either not being relevant at this point, or covered by the diags I ran from the terminal. > - if you scanned the manual and > made it available to use then we'd know for sure :-) > Same goes for the service guide ... When I posted the original message I actually expected a deluge of replies with advice and pointers to websites that had the docs etc. :-) If they seriously aren't online anywhere I could scan them at some point and find a home for them. Just not right now as I'm a litle overwhelmed with stuff at the moment! cheers Jules From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sun Jan 11 16:36:30 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: NEC APC III diskettes? References: <3.0.6.32.20040110122519.00834e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040110210055.0081a430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001401c3d94f$fb17f180$f9504ed5@geoff> No , I'm sure it worked on floppies as well. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 2:00 AM Subject: Re: NEC APC III diskettes? > Spinrite will attempt to recover data from failing media and associated > CRC errors, invalid address headers, etc but I don't think any software can > recover data from an out of alignment drive. Also AFIK Spinrite only works > on hard drives and not floppy drives. Also, You have to get the machine > booted with MS-DOS first. And finally, I'd have to Spinrite on an 8" disk. > > Joe > > At 12:02 AM 1/11/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Wasn't there an utility called "spinrite" that could recover data that was > >laid down slightly out of alignment ? > > > >Geoff. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 5:25 PM > >Subject: Re: NEC APC III diskettes? > > > > > >> At 10:11 AM 1/10/04 -0600, James wrote: > >> >On Friday 09 January 2004 11:28 pm, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> >> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > >> >> > I thought I had those, but I could not find them. I can look again, > >but > >> >> > let me know if they are 3.5 or 5.25 inches, it will cut down my > >search > >> >> > a bit. > >> >> > >> >> 8" > >> > > >> >did you get the special hi-end color model, it had 1024x768 8bit color > >> unheard > >> >of in those days... it was the first IBM PC clone i drooled over as a > >> >teenager. > >> > > >> > >> I have one and I have both MS-DOS and CPM-86 for it. But one of the > >sets > >> of disks that I got don't work well in it (I don't remember which set is > >> flaky). Either the drives are slightly out of alignment or the drives that > >> the disks were written on were. I suspect that the disks are out of > >> alignment since they behave exactly the same in either drive. The machine > >> seems to work fine otherwise. The color demo program is cool. > >> > >> This machine was rescued from a group that collects and refurbs slightly > >> old PCs for various schools and chairities. > >> > >> Joe > >> > > > > > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sun Jan 11 16:49:42 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Dark Tower - any internals info out there? References: <025f01c3d81c$557ac920$e38472cb@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001501c3d94f$fc0a8ee0$f9504ed5@geoff> Pardon? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie" To: Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Dark Tower - any internals info out there? mention was made of the TMS1000. Can anyone do a dump on one for me? Charlie Harris railroads@tech-j.biz New Zealand From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 12 15:20:09 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> I have an INFINITE CORP. Model UC1800 COSMAC "demo machine", quite used, but complete and it seems to work as far as I can tell. I posted to this list about it some time ago re: identifying it, but no replies. I have no documentation. It seems to respond to hex keypad entries, so likely it's working. First $20 takes it; I paid $10 for it and I'll pay to pack and ship it. http://wps.com/temp/dscf1898.jpg http://wps.com/temp/dscf1899.jpg tomj From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 12 15:26:46 2004 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for this post. I think that the impact of early computer technology in music is widely underestimated. Some of the old sound cards are still very useful. And some are highly thought after by musicians. The Roland SCC1 for example has - even by todays standards - awesome sounds. The huge success of the hardsid card and even a sid based synthesizer shows that a lot of music producers like the 8bit C64 sounds. "Old" Synths like the Roland D-50, the Kawai K1 or the Korg M1 still fetch great prices on ebay and are a pleasure to use. Has anybody ever heard of the Fairlight music computer system of the 80s? Boy would I ever like to have one of those... :) Yamaha had a MSX music computer based on the most successful synthesizer of all time - The Yamaha DX7 I never heard of the E-Mu Proteus card for the Mac. Do you have more information? What software came with the card? Do you collect only sound cards or vintage synths as well? Greetings Herbert on 1/12/2004 3:02 PM, Jason McBrien at jbmcb@hotmail.com wrote: > Anyone collect antique sound cards? What would be considered a "Classic?" > > Here's my list: > E-Mu/Digidesign MacProteus - NuBus card for Mac, a whole Proteus sound > module on a card. One of the all time classic synthesizer modules. > E-Mu Drumulator - Early 80's drum machine with computer (Apple II!) > interface > Gravis UltraSound - Enough said... > Digidesign Samplecell - Sampler card, I've always wanted to play with one of > these. > Ensoniq SoundScape - Early hardware wavetable card. 68000 controlled (had to > load the firmware from DOS before booting into Linux to get it to work) Nice > sounding samples for it's time. > Creative Labs SoundBlaster 16 - The old standard, now superceeded by AC'97. > MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum - An early SoundBlaster competitor, arguably > much better quality sound output > > My collection: > Ensoniq SoundScape ISA - The original model > Ensoniq AudioPCI - ES1370 model, interesting because you can use > SoundBlaster PCI64 drivers with it, it's the same card :) > MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum 16 NuBus - One of the first Mac sound cards, > cool breakout box with PC joystick port > Creative Labs 3doBlaster - 3DO game console on an ISA card. No drivers or > anything, but it's so wierd it's cool. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Van Mersbergen, Ken" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:35 AM > Subject: WTB: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card > > >> Hello- >> >> I am looking for a Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card. This is an 8 bit ISA card >> that was made in 1991. >> >> I had one but it no longer works. >> >> Let me know if anyone has one they are willing to part with. >> >> -Ken V. >> >> >> *************************************************************** >> This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or >> used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, >> disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be >> unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the >> sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. >> *************************************************************** >> From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Jan 12 15:22:04 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040112162133.00bb8a38@mail.earthlink.net> I'll take it... best regards, Steve Thatcher At 01:09 PM 1/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I have an INFINITE CORP. Model UC1800 COSMAC "demo machine", quite used, >but complete and it seems to work as far as I can tell. I posted to this >list about it some time ago re: identifying it, but no replies. I have >no documentation. It seems to respond to hex keypad entries, so likely >it's working. > >First $20 takes it; I paid $10 for it and I'll pay to pack and ship it. > >http://wps.com/temp/dscf1898.jpg >http://wps.com/temp/dscf1899.jpg > > >tomj From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 12 15:15:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040112161506.00835700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:56 PM 1/12/04 +0100, Fred wrote: >You know what is REALLY fucked-up? > >Coming back home here (Cali), and finding that during the >move from one office building to another, people decided >to not move ALL your stuff. > >Waaa! > >They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, >etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that >was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" > >*cries* > >Sellam, be prepared to spend several hours comforting me :( The lesson to be learned here is to NEVER trust your computers to anyone that calls you "dude"! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 12 15:12:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Husky Hunter for sale in the UK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040112161221.008492a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think I saw one at one time. It was a fat vertical format handheld machine and had a rubberized coating and an LCD display. I believe it was IBM compatible. They wer supposed to be very popular with surveyors. No idea what they used for disk drives. Joe At 05:12 PM 1/12/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I've been contacted by someone with the above wee machine for sale. The >Huskies were very ruggedised PCs weren't they? I can't remember that much >about them, but if you're interested contact the seller directly - Ross at >Bridgwaterboy@aol.com. > >Cheers, > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 12 15:17:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: References: <200401121903.OAA27269@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040112161718.00865ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:26 PM 1/12/04 +0100, you wrote: >On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > >> Who are *these* people and why are they still employed?! How do they >> plan to reimburse you?? >We have a shared office space, so I cant fire them :( .. they're >just other people running their own show, like I do.. just using a >shared space > Maybe you should just dump all of the "really old" data on their computers! Joe From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 12 15:35:27 2004 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Fairlight CMI music computer system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here more about the Fairlight music computer. If somebody wants to get rid of one, let me know... :) http://comp_sounds.tripod.com/fairlight.html http://www.obsolete.com/120_years/machines/fairlight/ It's an Australian made music computer. An interesting design from the late 70s and early 80s... Greetings Herbert From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jan 12 16:51:52 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! References: Message-ID: <006401c3d95e$abddd120$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> And.... this person that threw it away can still walk? ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: waaaah! > You know what is REALLY fucked-up? > > Coming back home here (Cali), and finding that during the > move from one office building to another, people decided > to not move ALL your stuff. > > Waaa! > > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" > > *cries* > > Sellam, be prepared to spend several hours comforting me :( > > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jan 12 17:11:30 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah!class References: <0401121930.AA01073@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <266001c3d961$6ac11640$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> and.. one added cost.... if ken Olsen is at he alcor life extension institute we would have to have them foot the bill to re-animate him as well.... ed ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 12:30 PM Subject: Re: waaaah!class > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" > > > > *cries* > > Can you sue them for the replacement cost? The replacement cost would of course > be the amount necessary to create a new Digital Equipment Corporation, to build > new factories and hire new workers to manufacture new BA123, new original DEC > disks and boards, as well as the necessary amount to buy back all designs and > schematics and rights from HP, etc. Sue them for that amount and then build the > new factories and the new hardware! > > MS > > From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jan 12 17:17:30 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: HP85 CPU References: <001101c3d89d$02185500$0a01a8c0@cadpc> Message-ID: <321001c3d962$405f0fa0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> we would like one too... if yours does not work would be happy to add it to the processor collection on the wall here... ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrie Carruthers" To: Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 4:45 PM Subject: HP85 CPU Hi am looking for an hp 85 cpu I have been hunting the net , in hopes of finding one , am also looking for an HP 85 service rom 00085-15006 the cpu was made by capricorn , lots of differen't definitions or the cpu on the internet. is there possibly a modern chip that could be used in place of it ? any help or information would be appreciated thanks Graham Robinson IT Manager Agtronics ltd graham.r@agtronics.co.nz From aek at spies.com Mon Jan 12 16:27:11 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Fairlight CMI music computer system Message-ID: <200401122227.i0CMRBw0013428@spies.com> http://www.spies.com/~britt/ http://members.tripod.com/kmi9000/kmi_cmi.htm From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 12 16:25:53 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Yamaha DX7 II-FD [was Re: Classic Sound Cards?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, The Design Fort DTP wrote: > "Old" Synths like the Roland D-50, the Kawai K1 or the Korg M1 still > fetch great prices on ebay and are a pleasure to use. Has anybody ever > heard of the Fairlight music computer system of the 80s? Boy would I > ever like to have one of those... :) Yamaha had a MSX music computer > based on the most successful synthesizer of all time - The Yamaha DX7 Well, I was going to ask about this on here at some point, but is there anyone on the list familiar with guts of Yamaha's DX7 II-FD? A number of years ago, one of my co-workers dumped her dead DX7 on me. It's been dragged across the country once and stored up in my attic for a while, until the last week or so. The initial symptoms were that none of its buttons worked and it failed to generate any sound. Inside I found a small and very dead battery soldered to the board which holds the main processors and memory. After soldering in a proper battery holder and replacing the battery, the synth lit up very happily once I powered it on. All the front buttons seem to work, and I can choose between the numerous available patches, but still there's no sound. At least I'm not able to get anything out of the headphone jack or the two audio jacks on the back of the keyboard. Does anyone happen to have any additional adice for me or schematics for this fellow? -brian. From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 12 16:47:06 2004 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Yamaha DX7 II-FD [was Re: Classic Sound Cards?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't have a DX-7, but I may have a cure anyway. Did you check the MIDI settings? There should be something called "local off" and "local on". You can set every Midi-Synth to bypass the internal Synth and play only remote keyboards. I bet that's what it is... If you get it working, look on ebay for the Yamaha CX-5M music computer. This was a MSX compatible computer. There is a great DX-7 editor available for it. More about the Yamaha CX-5M computer here: http://home.online.no/%7Eeiriklie/CX5MFAQ.html Greetings Herbert on 1/12/2004 6:25 PM, Brian Chase at vaxzilla@jarai.org wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, The Design Fort DTP wrote: > >> "Old" Synths like the Roland D-50, the Kawai K1 or the Korg M1 still >> fetch great prices on ebay and are a pleasure to use. Has anybody ever >> heard of the Fairlight music computer system of the 80s? Boy would I >> ever like to have one of those... :) Yamaha had a MSX music computer >> based on the most successful synthesizer of all time - The Yamaha DX7 > > Well, I was going to ask about this on here at some point, but is there > anyone on the list familiar with guts of Yamaha's DX7 II-FD? A number > of years ago, one of my co-workers dumped her dead DX7 on me. > > It's been dragged across the country once and stored up in my attic for > a while, until the last week or so. The initial symptoms were that none > of its buttons worked and it failed to generate any sound. Inside I > found a small and very dead battery soldered to the board which holds > the main processors and memory. After soldering in a proper battery > holder and replacing the battery, the synth lit up very happily once I > powered it on. All the front buttons seem to work, and I can choose > between the numerous available patches, but still there's no sound. At > least I'm not able to get anything out of the headphone jack or the two > audio jacks on the back of the keyboard. > > Does anyone happen to have any additional adice for me or schematics > for this fellow? > > -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 12 14:30:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: HP85 CPU In-Reply-To: <001101c3d89d$02185500$0a01a8c0@cadpc> from "Barrie Carruthers" at Jan 12, 4 12:45:34 pm Message-ID: > > Hi am looking for an hp 85 cpu=20 > > I have been hunting the net , in hopes of finding one , =20 > am also looking for an HP 85 service rom 00085-15006 > > the cpu was made by capricorn , lots of differen't definitions=20 No, the CPU is _called_ Capricorn. That's the HP code name for it. AFAIK it was designed and made by HP. > or the cpu on the internet. > > is there possibly a modern chip that could be used in place of it ? Unlikely. It's got a strange instruction set, strange logic levels (6V), and even stranger clock signals (4 phase clock at 12V levels IIRC). There's nothing that will drop in in place of it. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 12 14:31:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: <1073897346.32276.4.camel@pluto> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Jan 12, 4 08:49:05 am Message-ID: > I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the bearings out. You might even > be able to put it back together when you're done ;-) The problem is that the RA81 is a Winchester, and the spindle bearings are part of the sealed HDA. Yes, you can take it apart, but without a clean room you're not going to have a reliable drive at the end of it all. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 12 16:42:53 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan 12, 4 07:56:17 pm Message-ID: > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" > > *cries* If I lived nearer to you, I'd lend you one of my LARTs. It's a 6kV 0.2A transformer (!). You drop it on them, if that doesn't work, you connect mains ot the primary winding! -tony From edoris at cogeco.ca Mon Jan 12 15:04:50 2004 From: edoris at cogeco.ca (Ed Soron) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:22 2005 Subject: Digital VRT17-HA monitor Message-ID: <000801c3d94f$b85444c0$de048d18@ed5we8w0zb51rg> Can you please tellme where I can get a users guide for a Digital VRT17-HA monitor. A website you might suggest. I would be very grateful. thanks, Ed From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Mon Jan 12 15:22:47 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (nbreeden2@comcast.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Help fixing a broken RL02 Message-ID: <011220042122.18223.1563@comcast.net> All, I'm looking for any hints or advice on repairing a broken RL02 drive. I have two drives, one is working, the other indicates a fault. The unit with the fault lights the fault light as soon as it's powered up, it goes through it's normal power up cycle (runs the spindle at low speed) and seems normal beyond the fault. All power supply voltages are normal. I've swapped the 'easy' to swap parts with my working unit however the fault persists (swapped the logic board that lives on the top/back cover, the servo board and the unit select buttons). Before I tear deeper into it I was hoping someone might have some hints or experience that will help me. -Neil From nickmiller at charter.net Mon Jan 12 17:10:31 2004 From: nickmiller at charter.net (Nick Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 References: Message-ID: <001f01c3d961$46b30ba0$7a00a8c0@themillers> I have a C64, s/n 2330 made in the USA, with these same logos. I assume all the early production machines had this labeling. The interesting thing about my machine is a motherboard that is populated with numerous ceramic ICs, you may want to crack yours open when you get time. I had posted pictures of my machine some time ago while researching it. The photos can be found at: http://www.computer-history.org/hi-res-c-64.htm I wouldn't bother if you don't have broadband, I left them in their native 4.1MP resolution and the files are quite large. Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 11:27 PM Subject: Old Commodore 64 > Ih ave a fairly old C64 (sn is about 32,000) with an odd logo - a 6 and a > 4 smashed together, sort of. There is a picture of the style of machine > about 1/4 down the page at: > > http://commodore.ca/products/c64/commodore_64.htm > > Every C64 I played with as a kid looked like the one at the top of the > screen, with the rainbow logo. When did Commodore switch? > > On a side note, response for the 2400 baud WE modems has been pretty low > (zero, actually). I would rather not scrap these things out, although I > may lug a pair over to RCS. I received a little more info: > > > Seems to me that these were not specifically for secure voice - > > they could be used, connecteded to a crypto set like a KG-13, > > for uses like AUTODIN trunks. > > Neat stuff. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From acme at gbronline.com Mon Jan 12 17:27:07 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: How 'bout classic MIDI cards? (was Classic Sound Cards? References: Message-ID: <019a01c3d963$99cc5240$e94f0945@thegoodw> To quote a former member of this list: See below, plz ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Design Fort DTP" > "Old" Synths like the Roland D-50, the Kawai K1 or the Korg M1 still fetch > great prices on ebay and are a pleasure to use. Geez, I guess my K1-II *is* old -- I bought it new in '91! Still rocks, too. At that same time, I purchased a Voyetra V24-S 8-bit MIDI controller card for my PC. I still use both these gems several times a month. The V24-S has *four* MIDI output ports, so up to 64 instruments can be controlled by it . . . try pricing something like that today. Only problem with it is that it requires an ISA slot, so upgrades to my home PC have to take that into consideration. Anyone else on the list have any classic old MIDI boards they still use? Later -- Glen Goodwin 0/0 Want to save money on TV/Stereo repair parts and quality electronic components? http://www.acme-sales.net From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 12 17:27:33 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Poly 8813 Message-ID: <200401122327.PAA10874@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Is there anyone on the list with a Polymorphic 8813. I'm hoping to find more software. Dwight From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jan 12 18:37:59 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c3d96d$7f2bb7a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > VAXen that were part of a cluster *can* have an NVRAM setting > that tells them their node ID, which they need to correctly > address the > (shared) system disks... this happens a lot with shared-DSSI clusters. I no longer have my VAX 4000s to check with but I don't remember having to tell their consoles that. I did use the console to talk to the DSSI disks and set their node parameters and it *might* be possible to set the corresponding DSSI parameters for a VAX 4000 node (although I don't remember either doing that or being able to do it). > I cant remember what the name of the setting was. ALLOCLASS is the SYSGEN setting that determines the number you see in front of disks (so my VAXstation here has ALLOCLASS set to 42 and its disks are $42$DKA0: etc.) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jan 12 19:04:36 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> Message-ID: <007d01c3d971$378809e0$d008dd40@66067007> If you still have it I can paypal the money to you tonight or send you a money order? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jennings" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 3:09 PM Subject: more COSMAC stuff > I have an INFINITE CORP. Model UC1800 COSMAC "demo machine", quite used, > but complete and it seems to work as far as I can tell. I posted to this > list about it some time ago re: identifying it, but no replies. I have > no documentation. It seems to respond to hex keypad entries, so likely > it's working. > > First $20 takes it; I paid $10 for it and I'll pay to pack and ship it. > > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1898.jpg > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1899.jpg > > > tomj > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jan 12 19:23:10 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) References: Message-ID: <013f01c3d973$cfa158b0$d008dd40@66067007> I was able to tape it on my VCR, but missed the first minute or two of the show as I found it by chance Sunday night. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Rigney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) > Sellam, > > Any idea when it will re-air? My Tivo (US Pacific, DirectTV) sez the next > airing is 1/18, but it has no description so I can't be sure if it's the > same episode. > > Patrick > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > > Festival > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:44 PM > > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > > Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) > > > > > > > > Tonight on HGTV I appear on the show "Hey, Remember!" where I'll be > > talking about old computers. It appears locally at different times so > > check your local listings. > > > > http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hhey/episode/0,1806,HGTV_11739_2944 > > 4,00.html > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > > Computers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 12 19:37:55 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Help fixing a broken RL02 In-Reply-To: nbreeden2@comcast.net "Help fixing a broken RL02" (Jan 12, 21:22) References: <011220042122.18223.1563@comcast.net> Message-ID: <10401130137.ZM2138@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 12, 21:22, nbreeden2@comcast.net wrote: > I'm looking for any hints or advice on repairing a broken RL02 drive. I have two drives, one is working, the other indicates a fault. > > The unit with the fault lights the fault light as soon as it's powered up, it goes through it's normal power up cycle (runs the spindle at low speed) and seems normal beyond the fault. > > All power supply voltages are normal. > > I've swapped the 'easy' to swap parts with my working unit however the fault persists (swapped the logic board that lives on the top/back cover, the servo board and the unit select buttons). Before I tear deeper into it I was hoping someone might have some hints or experience that will help me. It could be lots of things. I had one like that, it turned out to be a fault on the AC servo board IIRC. I suggest you download the RL01/02 Pocket Service Guide from David Gesswein's site at http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query_all.html -- it's fairly small and has a lot of useful stuff in it. It's all I had when I had to repair and realign my three drives (though I did have an original DEC printed copy). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 12 19:58:46 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Help fixing a broken RL02 In-Reply-To: <10401130137.ZM2138@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <011220042122.18223.1563@comcast.net> <10401130137.ZM2138@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <400350D6.2050706@atarimuseum.com> Okay, just need to ask the silling questions: Is your CPU on before powering up the RL02? Is the Terminator plugged into the 2nd port on the back? Do you have the cable plugged in properly? If yes to all the above, was the unit working at one point, then one day stopped??? Curt Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Jan 12, 21:22, nbreeden2@comcast.net wrote: > > > >> I'm looking for any hints or advice on repairing a broken RL02 >> >> >drive. I have two drives, one is working, the other indicates a fault. > > >> The unit with the fault lights the fault light as soon as it's >> >> >powered up, it goes through it's normal power up cycle (runs the >spindle at low speed) and seems normal beyond the fault. > > >> All power supply voltages are normal. >> >> I've swapped the 'easy' to swap parts with my working unit however >> >> >the fault persists (swapped the logic board that lives on the top/back >cover, the servo board and the unit select buttons). Before I tear >deeper into it I was hoping someone might have some hints or experience >that will help me. > >It could be lots of things. I had one like that, it turned out to be a >fault on the AC servo board IIRC. I suggest you download the RL01/02 >Pocket Service Guide from David Gesswein's site at >http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query_all.html -- it's fairly small and >has a lot of useful stuff in it. It's all I had when I had to repair >and realign my three drives (though I did have an original DEC printed >copy). > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 12 20:23:40 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Thanks for this post. I think that the impact of early computer technology > in music is widely underestimated. It is underestimated, but I must say that perhaps it should be largely ignored! Until the Japanese started making real inroads (read "DX7") into the market, the engineering that went into the analog and early digital synthesizers is horrible. Crack open one of the old beasts, with a schematic in hand, and you will see what I mean. Bob Moog himself once stated that in the old days "you could throw five pounds of shit in a box, and if it made a sound, it would sell". > "Old" Synths like the Roland D-50, the Kawai K1 or the Korg M1 still fetch > great prices on ebay and are a pleasure to use. Yes, but street price of a used D-50 or M1 is pretty affordable. Similar "Old"* modules are really cheap - a TX816Z or a D-110 can often be had for about $25.00. * Old to me is pre-DX7. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Mon Jan 12 21:01:46 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073962906.2896.15.camel@linux.local> I've have a couple soundblaster Pro's (CT1350Bs I think), Several variations of SoundBlaster 16, the soundblaster wavetable add-on board for the 16, a Gravis Ultrasound PnP, a couple MS Windows Sound System cards, and a "Game Blaster" card. Most my SB16s are in PCs since they work well enough for modern stuff and work with "classic" PC games that want a Sound Blaster or AdLib card. I would like to have an AdLib card, but have not run into any. Paul On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 13:02, Jason McBrien wrote: > Anyone collect antique sound cards? What would be considered a "Classic?" > > Here's my list: > E-Mu/Digidesign MacProteus - NuBus card for Mac, a whole Proteus sound > module on a card. One of the all time classic synthesizer modules. > E-Mu Drumulator - Early 80's drum machine with computer (Apple II!) > interface > Gravis UltraSound - Enough said... > Digidesign Samplecell - Sampler card, I've always wanted to play with one of > these. > Ensoniq SoundScape - Early hardware wavetable card. 68000 controlled (had to > load the firmware from DOS before booting into Linux to get it to work) Nice > sounding samples for it's time. > Creative Labs SoundBlaster 16 - The old standard, now superceeded by AC'97. > MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum - An early SoundBlaster competitor, arguably > much better quality sound output > > My collection: > Ensoniq SoundScape ISA - The original model > Ensoniq AudioPCI - ES1370 model, interesting because you can use > SoundBlaster PCI64 drivers with it, it's the same card :) > MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum 16 NuBus - One of the first Mac sound cards, > cool breakout box with PC joystick port > Creative Labs 3doBlaster - 3DO game console on an ISA card. No drivers or > anything, but it's so wierd it's cool. > From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Mon Jan 12 21:02:51 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073962971.2895.17.camel@linux.local> Well I would have liked to see it ::sigh:: well maybe I'll catch it some other time ... makes me wish I had a Tivo. Paul On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 22:44, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Tonight on HGTV I appear on the show "Hey, Remember!" where I'll be > talking about old computers. It appears locally at different times so > check your local listings. > > http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/shows_hhey/episode/0,1806,HGTV_11739_29444,00.html From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Mon Jan 12 21:05:28 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: EXEC-PC BBS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073963128.2896.20.camel@linux.local> Looks like the old girl is back up!! :) :~> telnet bbs.execpc.com Trying 169.207.51.4... Connected to bbs.execpc.com. Escape character is '^]'. Linux 2.0.31 (bbs) (ttyp0) Welcome to ExecPC BBS connected Exec-PC BBS (NODE# 402, CONNECT 57600) Exec-PC(tm) BBS Copyright (c) 1983-2001 Exec-PC, Inc. Exec-PC(tm) Look, feel, menu, bulletin and file lists Copyright (c) 2001. EXEC-PC (R) Reg. U.S. Pat. and Tm. Off. Can you display ANSI Color Graphics? (y/N) -> N ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????>>? Exec-PC BBS ?<> IMPORTANT NOTE: YOUR COMMUNICATIONS PARAMETERS MUST BE SET TO 8,N,1 < On Fri, 2004-01-02 at 12:28, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Paul Berger wrote: > > > He converted it from a system pretty much as you describe at it's peak > > it consited of 5 novell severs with a total of 40+ hard drives and over > > 100 PCs (bare motherboards actually) networked together in racks made ot > > of plywood with slots cut in them to slide the motherboards into. It > > was an interesting artitechture and the main reason it was as scaleable > > as it was. > > Wow! That's really cool. Did they ever document it, like with pictures > and stuff? That deserves preservation in some computer history archive. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 12 21:08:53 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) References: <1073962906.2896.15.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <00b801c3d982$933dc2a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have a SB 16, SB32 AWE, SB64... also have the "waveblaster" add on card. Believe it or not, the grand piano samples from the waveblaster are pretty awesome! Also have a Midiman 4x4S, which I had a PCI version though. J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Berger" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) > I've have a couple soundblaster Pro's (CT1350Bs I think), Several > variations of SoundBlaster 16, the soundblaster wavetable add-on board > for the 16, a Gravis Ultrasound PnP, a couple MS Windows Sound System > cards, and a "Game Blaster" card. > > Most my SB16s are in PCs since they work well enough for modern stuff > and work with "classic" PC games that want a Sound Blaster or AdLib > card. > > I would like to have an AdLib card, but have not run into any. > > Paul > > On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 13:02, Jason McBrien wrote: > > Anyone collect antique sound cards? What would be considered a "Classic?" > > > > Here's my list: > > E-Mu/Digidesign MacProteus - NuBus card for Mac, a whole Proteus sound > > module on a card. One of the all time classic synthesizer modules. > > E-Mu Drumulator - Early 80's drum machine with computer (Apple II!) > > interface > > Gravis UltraSound - Enough said... > > Digidesign Samplecell - Sampler card, I've always wanted to play with one of > > these. > > Ensoniq SoundScape - Early hardware wavetable card. 68000 controlled (had to > > load the firmware from DOS before booting into Linux to get it to work) Nice > > sounding samples for it's time. > > Creative Labs SoundBlaster 16 - The old standard, now superceeded by AC'97. > > MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum - An early SoundBlaster competitor, arguably > > much better quality sound output > > > > My collection: > > Ensoniq SoundScape ISA - The original model > > Ensoniq AudioPCI - ES1370 model, interesting because you can use > > SoundBlaster PCI64 drivers with it, it's the same card :) > > MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum 16 NuBus - One of the first Mac sound cards, > > cool breakout box with PC joystick port > > Creative Labs 3doBlaster - 3DO game console on an ISA card. No drivers or > > anything, but it's so wierd it's cool. > > > > > > From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 12 21:28:21 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Digital VRT17-HA monitor References: <000801c3d94f$b85444c0$de048d18@ed5we8w0zb51rg> Message-ID: <003001c3d985$4c224d20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > A website you might suggest. I would be very grateful http://www.monitorworld.com/Monitors/dec/vrt19ha.html John A. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jan 12 22:10:24 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Dark Tower - any internals info out there? Message-ID: >Pardon? >>mention was made of the TMS1000. Can anyone do a dump on one for me? I think this was in reference to a REALLY REALLY old thread. Unless it came back up recently, the last Dark Tower thread I saw was when I first joined the list (I provided a few pics of the internals of the tower unit), and that was two or three years ago!! -chris From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Jan 12 22:46:00 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: EXEC-PC BBS? In-Reply-To: <1073963128.2896.20.camel@linux.local> References: <1073963128.2896.20.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <200401122046.00642.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Very cool. Thanks for the info. I remember using this BBS back in the early '80s. Whew, I'm getting OLD. Lyle On Monday 12 January 2004 19:05, Paul Berger wrote: > Looks like the old girl is back up!! :) > > :~> telnet bbs.execpc.com > > Trying 169.207.51.4... > Connected to bbs.execpc.com. > Escape character is '^]'. > > Linux 2.0.31 (bbs) (ttyp0) > > > Welcome to ExecPC BBS > connected > > Exec-PC BBS (NODE# 402, CONNECT 57600) > > Exec-PC(tm) BBS Copyright (c) 1983-2001 Exec-PC, Inc. > Exec-PC(tm) Look, feel, menu, bulletin and file lists Copyright (c) > 2001. > EXEC-PC (R) Reg. U.S. Pat. and Tm. Off. > > Can you display ANSI Color Graphics? (y/N) -> N > > ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > ???????????>>? Exec-PC BBS > ?< ? LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR BBS IN THE > WORLD ? > ? ASP Approved BBS, Founding AOP Board > Member ? > ????????????????? The Business Knowledge Exchange > ??????????????????? > 12.5 Million callers since 1982 > 1.1 MILLION files online > 500,000+ active messages online > Largest Internet Provider in Wisconsin! > Home of Hyperscan(tm), searches through 450,000 files in 2 > seconds! > Winner of the 1994 Dvorak Award for "Best Overall BBS" > > ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > Via: Telnet-IN, V.34+ > Telnet Address: bbs.execpc.com > ???>> IMPORTANT NOTE: YOUR COMMUNICATIONS PARAMETERS MUST BE SET TO > 8,N,1 < > |--------------------| > > What is your FIRST name -> > > On Fri, 2004-01-02 at 12:28, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Paul Berger wrote: > > > He converted it from a system pretty much as you describe at it's peak > > > it consited of 5 novell severs with a total of 40+ hard drives and over > > > 100 PCs (bare motherboards actually) networked together in racks made > > > ot of plywood with slots cut in them to slide the motherboards into. > > > It was an interesting artitechture and the main reason it was as > > > scaleable as it was. > > > > Wow! That's really cool. Did they ever document it, like with pictures > > and stuff? That deserves preservation in some computer history archive. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 12 23:20:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Dark Tower - any internals info out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040113052054.GA5160@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 11:10:24PM -0500, chris wrote: > >Pardon? > > >>mention was made of the TMS1000. Can anyone do a dump on one for me? > > > I think this was in reference to a REALLY REALLY old thread. Unless it > came back up recently, the last Dark Tower thread I saw was when I first > joined the list (I provided a few pics of the internals of the tower > unit), and that was two or three years ago!! I remember an ancient thread about this. I have a Dark Tower at home, much fun. What I'm wondering is if there's a decent, detailed, write-up of how the game plays. I mean flow-chart/programming-spec-level of detail. Enough to, say, implement the game in Javascript or some such (for the day when my Tower dies). Obviously, a dump of the internal ROM would be an excellent starting point, but I wasn't aware you could dump the TMS1000. If that's possible, there are several games of the era that could be effectively emulated. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-Jan-2004 05:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -20.4 F (-29.2 C) Windchill -32.4 F (-35.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.4 kts Grid 003 Barometer 682.3 mb (10540 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 12 23:45:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Jason McBrien wrote: > E-Mu Drumulator - Early 80's drum machine with computer (Apple II!) > interface Very cool. Does it have it's own Apple ][ card? Is it MIDI? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Mon Jan 12 23:45:47 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040113054547.1F1824488D@server1.messagingengine.com> Usually the C64's that did not have the "rainbow" badge were the ones from the original production run in 1982-early '83. These early models used the VIC-20 case & were quickly pulled & replaced with the case style that we all know today. On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:27:44 -0500 (EST), "William Donzelli" said: > Ih ave a fairly old C64 (sn is about 32,000) with an odd logo - a 6 and a > 4 smashed together, sort of. There is a picture of the style of machine > about 1/4 down the page at: > > http://commodore.ca/products/c64/commodore_64.htm > > Every C64 I played with as a kid looked like the one at the top of the > screen, with the rainbow logo. When did Commodore switch? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 12 23:48:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <001f01c3d961$46b30ba0$7a00a8c0@themillers> References: <001f01c3d961$46b30ba0$7a00a8c0@themillers> Message-ID: <20040113054829.GA5805@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 05:10:31PM -0600, Nick Miller wrote: > I have a C64, s/n 2330 made in the USA, with these same logos. I assume all > the early production machines had this labeling. Mine (s/n 2345) has the same logo you are describing. > The photos can be found at: > > http://www.computer-history.org/hi-res-c-64.htm I haven't posted my photos, but they are similar. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-Jan-2004 05:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -20.2 F (-29.0 C) Windchill -20.2 F (-29.0 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 2.9 kts Grid 004 Barometer 682.4 mb (10536 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 13 00:06:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: <013f01c3d973$cfa158b0$d008dd40@66067007> Message-ID: I'm told the episodes will re-air in the coming weeks so check your local listings. I'll also post a message when I see them coming up. In the meantime, I got both episodes on tape from the producer so I'm good :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 13 00:09:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Need help shipping something big from NJ Message-ID: I'm having a large and unusually shaped item shipped from New Jersey to California. One part will need to be crated and the rest boxed. Is there someone in the Boonton area that can recommend a shipper? I would need the shipper to bring along the materials to crate the item. I would also entertain paying a list member local to the area to crate and pack the item, and coordinate with a local shipping company. Please reply privately if you can help out. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 13 00:11:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Dark Tower - any internals info out there? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, chris wrote: > I think this was in reference to a REALLY REALLY old thread. Unless it > came back up recently, the last Dark Tower thread I saw was when I first > joined the list (I provided a few pics of the internals of the tower > unit), and that was two or three years ago!! I didn't realize the Dark Tower was based on the TMS1000. Very cool. Those things regularly go for over $100 on eBay... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 13 00:36:59 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I'm told the episodes will re-air in the coming weeks so check your local > listings. I'll also post a message when I see them coming up. > > In the meantime, I got both episodes on tape from the producer so I'm good > :) Evil! Why dont you post these in some format? --f From kurtk7 at visi.com Tue Jan 13 01:02:42 2004 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> Message-ID: <1073977362.400398126c760@my.visi.com> Hello I will take it, and pay you a bit more if necessary. Thanks Kurt > I have an INFINITE CORP. Model UC1800 COSMAC "demo machine", quite used, > but complete and it seems to work as far as I can tell. I posted to this > list about it some time ago re: identifying it, but no replies. I have > no documentation. It seems to respond to hex keypad entries, so likely > it's working. > > First $20 takes it; I paid $10 for it and I'll pay to pack and ship it. > > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1898.jpg > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1899.jpg > > > tomj From kurtk7 at visi.com Tue Jan 13 01:10:43 2004 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff 2 In-Reply-To: <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> Message-ID: <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> Hello Tom I don't know if I am first to reply but ask that you might consider allowing someone to purchase it that would most appreciate it rather than awarding it by opportunity. I have been diligently assembling COsmac systems, docs, etc, for a website and would make better use of it than someone who just wants the system. I leave it to your judgement but I am serious in my efforts and would pay far more for this than you requested. Thank you for your consideration in this matter, Kurt > I have an INFINITE CORP. Model UC1800 COSMAC "demo machine", quite used, > but complete and it seems to work as far as I can tell. I posted to this > list about it some time ago re: identifying it, but no replies. I have > no documentation. It seems to respond to hex keypad entries, so likely > it's working. > > First $20 takes it; I paid $10 for it and I'll pay to pack and ship it. > > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1898.jpg > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1899.jpg > > > tomj From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 13 01:13:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I'm told the episodes will re-air in the coming weeks so check your local > > listings. I'll also post a message when I see them coming up. > > > > In the meantime, I got both episodes on tape from the producer so I'm good > > :) > Evil! Why dont you post these in some format? Because I don't own the copyright :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jan 13 01:41:16 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: ExecPC BBS Message-ID: <2d5904704c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Hi all, Just FYI - the ExecPC BBS seems to be back up as of 7:30AM UK time this morning. The address is (as always). Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to raid the filebase :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From kurtk7 at visi.com Tue Jan 13 01:47:11 2004 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com> To the group, I was intending to just send this to Tom but as I posted to the group instead, I just wanted to say this. We are all trying to find these systems and after speaking to several on their intentions and efforts, you can tell where each person focuses their energies and what they want to achieve. More than a few of you have websites, virtual museums, and a few, the real variety (usually housed somewhere out of the way, cost issues, always). I don't have a great deal of money, but like all of you I do the best I can. It takes alot of time and patience. This is an area I focus on, but I'm not the only one. I think systems should go the homes that treat them best, much like children. If there is someone better, then I gladly cede to them. Didn't want to come off being arrogant, and apologize if that's how it did. Wasn't my intent. In 20 years, what will be left if we do nothing? I would like to open a real museum around here, a goal but it will take time and money, the one is in supply the other always short. I figure, that if people can't see it, in some type of meaningful manner, interact with it, they won't appreciate it. Anyway, if the Cosmac goes elsewhere, then just have to wait for the next one. One day, I will find an APF Imagination Machine. I already wrote on this but it got me into the career that I am in today. First system I ever saw. Personal thing, but I always get the feeling I may never have a chance to find the system, fearing this is the last one that is coming down the pike. I know that's not true, but that's the fear, isn't it? The Elf's by the way, were the second system I came upone, specifically the Cosmac, still remember the advertisements. Back then it seemed computers had all the excitement and potential, and the challenge. Not like today's 'appliances' in the stores and over the top hype. Anyway, thanks for reading, Kurt From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 13 02:36:56 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Old Commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <20040113054829.GA5805@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: 13 January 2004 05:48 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Old Commodore 64 > > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 05:10:31PM -0600, Nick Miller wrote: > > I have a C64, s/n 2330 made in the USA, with these same logos. > I assume all > > the early production machines had this labeling. > > Mine (s/n 2345) has the same logo you are describing. > > > The photos can be found at: > > > > http://www.computer-history.org/hi-res-c-64.htm > > I haven't posted my photos, but they are similar. Both ver' nice - I think the ceramic chips add extra coolness but that's probably only me :) witchy From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jan 13 02:41:46 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: waaaah! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45e309704c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > They ("they" !) threw out my BA123 (incl. the boards, disks, > etc !), my 3100-M76 and a box of spares, just cos "dude, that > was, like, REALLY OLD crap! Didnt know you still needed it!" Suffice it to say, at this point I would be out for some form of revenge. Tesla Coil anyone? Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 13 03:56:19 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question Message-ID: I've got a TPC image, that was originally from a MM: drive, and I've written it back out to a MU: drive (4mm in this case). I'm just trying to read the tape, I'm not trying to do anything fancy like boot from it. Is there any reason that I should have trouble doing this? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From adamg at pobox.com Mon Jan 12 19:21:26 2004 From: adamg at pobox.com (Adam Goldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: FT in LA, CA ASAP: SGI 4D Message-ID: <20040113012126.GA22196@silme.pair.com> I just bought three big SGIs but was only able to make room for two of them. Oops. I'm looking to trade the extra one for a smaller SGI, or for a Sun, a micro, video game stuff, test and measurement equipment, some DIP-packaged 27c160 EPROMs or a hamburger. It's an SGI "Power Series" 4D/something, black with blue trim, about dishwasher size and a few hundred pounds. I don't know if it's currently operable. With appropriate modifications it could probably be a nice coffee table or NFS server. I will deliver in the Los Angeles area, but the recipient will need to help unload, ideally with a forklift, or else with a movable platform we can slide it on to. I need to get rid of it fast before the computer gods destroy it. I hope to hear from someone soon. Thanks! (Also available: Gould 2800S strip chart recorder with 8 or so channels of "DC amplifier" inputs, 19" rack mount by a foot or so high, not too heavy or deep. And a Canon fax machine. How the hell did that get in there? All untested.) -- Adam From briliant at bom7.vsnl.net.in Tue Jan 13 01:02:19 2004 From: briliant at bom7.vsnl.net.in (HIREN) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: TIL 306 Message-ID: <400397FB.CCF54041@bom7.vsnl.net.in> Dear Joe You require TIL 306 ?? PL REPLY REGDS VIMAL AJMERA BRILLIANT ELECTRO SYSTEMS PVT LTD INDIA TEL 0091 22 23875565 FAX 0091 22 23887063 From ikvsabre at comcast.net Tue Jan 13 06:41:36 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joe Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401130741360218.0C55E96A@smtp.comcast.net> Is there any interest in older IDE hard drives, 170-540MB? I listed them on eBay, but got no response. I probably should have posted them to the list, but I wasn't sure that was allowed, so I didn't. If there is any interest, I will relist them. If it does not violate the rules, I will provide links to them. Here is a list of what I have: Maxtor 7540AV 540 MB IDE Hard Drive Seagate 1.0 GB IDE Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar 212 MB IDE Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar 256 MB IDE Hard Drive ELS127 Quantum 127 MB IDE Hard Drive ELS170 Quantum 170 MB IDE Hard Drive Joe From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Jan 13 06:10:32 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: KDJ-11A won't run Message-ID: <1073995282.14479.12.camel@pluto> Hi there, I'm working on what I am led to believe is a PDP-11/73 (but it doesn't look like one). It *was* working last week, but one of the leads had dropped off the console socket on the back. On resoldering, it worked perfectly. Last night, when I opened it to fit the RXV21 another lead dropped of (RXD this time), so again, I resoldered it. I don't think this has much to do with the problem. When I power the machine up, the 2nd-from-right status LED lights up. >From googling, it seems this means "SLU Error". The Run light on the front panel comes on for a moment, then goes back out. The green LED on the KDJ-11A never comes on (but I'm not sure that it ever did). All the cards are firmly seated. Unfortunately I don't have a list of all the cards fitted to hand. >From memory it is (might help to read this in a monospace font): | M8192 | Serial? | | full width memory card | | RL02 Controller | | ST506 | Console/ROM | | M8029 | | Can't remember exactly, or quite what the cards are (some seem to be third party). One - does this seem to be a sane layout of cards (modulo uncertainty on my part); and Two - What would cause my SLU Error, and how should I proceed? Thanks in advance, Gordon Pearce From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jan 13 07:05:33 2004 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Egregious VMS newbie questions References: <000701c3d96d$7f2bb7a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <4003ED1D.4000005@Vishay.com> SBP (See Below, Please ;-) Antonio Carlini wrote: >>VAXen that were part of a cluster *can* have an NVRAM setting >>that tells them their node ID, which they need to correctly >>address the >>(shared) system disks... this happens a lot with shared-DSSI clusters. ... >>I cant remember what the name of the setting was. > > > ALLOCLASS is the SYSGEN setting that determines the > number you see in front of disks (so my VAXstation > here has ALLOCLASS set to 42 and its disks are > $42$DKA0: etc.) > > Antonio To me, the remark about shared system disks sounds more like the number in SYSn (the first-level directory in the SYS$SYSROOT path on the system disk) that is unique for each cluster member. This number is passed from the console software to the operating system as a single number (32 bit in /R5: for a VAX, 64 bits as -flags , for an Alpha). The mechanism of passing the number does not depend on the operating system (Unix on Alpha uses it as well as VMS does), but the meaning that is assigned to each bit depends on the operating system. For VAX/VMS, the high-order four bits in processor register R5 determine the SYSn, while the low-order bits specify boot options such as conversational bootstrap, inhibit memory test etc. For OpenVMS/AXP, the argument specifies the SYSn, and the do the remaining part. How the information is stored in nonvolatile memory, in turn, depends on the hardware. Some VAXen - an 8600 comes to my mind - even have a frontend processor, which in this case happens to be a PDP-11 running RT-11 or something very similar. Since the PDP-11 has its own file system on a console medium (RL02 in this case), it can comfortably store boot command files to specify all desired options. Since there are differences between processors, there is nothing like a single name for the parameter that specifies the system root. The VAX 8600 has the PDP front end processor, a VAX 6xx0 would have NVRAM holding complete boot strings, Alphas have the BOOT_OSFLAGS variable that serves as a default for the BOOT command. Just a few examples that I had the honor of laying my hands on so far. The ALLOCLASS comes in when SYSBOOT has gained access to the SYSGEN parameters (very early in the course of a VMS boot), and indeed it is one of the parameters that control device naming. At this time, however, the system root must already be fixed, since the exact location from which SYSBOOT.EXE is loaded also depends on the root and might be node specific in a cluster. Andreas -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Jan 13 07:47:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Need help shipping something big from NJ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4003F6DA.5020209@atarimuseum.com> Sellam if its something a member could put in an SUV or maybe a uhaul, they could drive it up to Newark Airport and drop it off at Forward Air shipping which has a hub there, and Forward Air could then ship it over to the SJ airport where airport where you could pick it up. www.forwardair.com The only disadvantage of Forward Air if you have to drop off/pickup but their prices are great, they are (last time I used them, most of the Video Arcade collectors use them) $28 per 100lbs Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I'm having a large and unusually shaped item shipped from New Jersey to >California. One part will need to be crated and the rest boxed. Is there >someone in the Boonton area that can recommend a shipper? I would need >the shipper to bring along the materials to crate the item. > >I would also entertain paying a list member local to the area to crate and >pack the item, and coordinate with a local shipping company. > >Please reply privately if you can help out. > >Thanks! > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 10:16:57 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) References: Message-ID: Not sure how it interfaced with the II, I've only seen it once in action at a store (when I was a young'un) http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/emudrumulat.cfm http://www.emulatorarchive.com/DrumMachines/drummachines.html By the way, synthsite is awesome. Besides just about every synth ever made, they have a small section on computer based synths, cards and software. http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 12:45 AM Subject: Re: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Jason McBrien wrote: > > > E-Mu Drumulator - Early 80's drum machine with computer (Apple II!) > > interface > > Very cool. Does it have it's own Apple ][ card? Is it MIDI? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 10:31:26 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Classic Sound Cards? (Re: Roland SCC 1 GS MIDI Card) References: Message-ID: > Has anybody ever heard of the Fairlight music computer system of the 80s? > Boy would I ever like to have one of those... :) > Yamaha had a MSX music computer based on the most successful synthesizer of > all time - The Yamaha DX7 There's a British electronica guy named Mu-Ziq (Mike Paradinas) who did his whole first album, Tango 'n' Vectif, using an Atari ST, DX7, a drum machine and a couple of effects boxes. He got a lot of sounds out of that setup... > Do you collect only sound cards or vintage synths as well? I have an old, cheap casiotone keyboard, and a Casio CZ-5000 semi-professional synth. I'd love to collect synths but it's an expensive hobby, even more so than collecting computers... From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Jan 13 10:45:51 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Flashback to July 1991... Message-ID: <400420BF.FD6E130D@comcast.net> While wandering around the hallways here at Yale, I came upon a catalog from Inmac, dated July 1991. I then proceeded to laugh in a bit of amazement over the prices of some of the items when new, and how much they go for now. Here are some tidbits... Inmac NB/386sx laptop - $3,495.00 - probably made by Compaq, or that's what it looks like at least. 20 MHz, 9" 32 shades of grey screen, 40MB HDD, 2 MB RAM... Iomega Alpha 8" 10MB Bernoulli Box Cartridge 3 pack - $235.00 CDC 9883-1/RM05 300MB disk pack - $839.00 or how about some disk drive filters, from $37.00 to $114.00 Mountain 80MB external tape backup drive - $1,149.95... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 13 11:54:17 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Appearance on HGTV tonight (Sunday) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Evil! Why dont you post these in some format? > > Because I don't own the copyright :) Bah. You're starred in those eps, I assume you can claim fair use on copying your own face [however horrible] ?? --f From kth at srv.net Tue Jan 13 11:13:10 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40042726.5070104@srv.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >I've got a TPC image, that was originally from a MM: drive, and I've written it back out to a MU: drive (4mm in this case). I'm just trying to read the tape, I'm not trying to do anything fancy like boot from it. Is there any reason that I should have trouble doing this? > > Zane > > > What OS, and how are you trying to read it, what format is the tape in, how did you create it, etc.? Are you trying to read it as file structured, or raw? Was it written with the same tape drive you are trying to read it from? No. Differences in the drives compression method density abaility to handle >90m tapes Yes (or No) Dirty heads. Block size > than the PDP11 software can handle Different format (DOS vs. ANSI vs. UNFORMATTED) Badly written tape (software failure) From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 13 13:09:20 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:23 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard Message-ID: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they would like to sell to me? Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 13 13:18:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Need help shipping something big from NJ In-Reply-To: <4003F6DA.5020209@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > Sellam if its something a member could put in an SUV or maybe a uhaul, > they could drive it up to Newark Airport and drop it off at Forward Air > shipping which has a hub there, and Forward Air could then ship it over > to the SJ airport where airport where you could pick it up. > > www.forwardair.com > > The only disadvantage of Forward Air if you have to drop off/pickup but > their prices are great, they are (last time I used them, most of the > Video Arcade collectors use them) $28 per 100lbs Hi Curt. Yes, I've used ForwardAir a couple times and in both cases it worked out well. I am actually considering making a 2-3 day trip out of it. I've never been to Jersey before and plane fare is relatively cheap these days (<$200 round-trip on JetBlue). I don't relish going through the Arab Harassment Process...er, I mean security checks at the airport, but I like short little adventures like this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 13 13:19:25 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040113131858.0395d6b8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 11:09 AM 1/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >would like to sell to me? >Dwight > > I'm interested in one of these as well. --tnx --tom From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 13 13:23:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard Message-ID: <200401131923.LAA11610@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Tom No fair, me first. Dwight >From: "Tom Uban" > >At 11:09 AM 1/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >>Hi >> Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >>would like to sell to me? >>Dwight >> >> > >I'm interested in one of these as well. > >--tnx >--tom > > From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Tue Jan 13 13:42:05 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478036738C4@exchange.olf.com> This *might* help. For my transputer stand-alone workstation, I used a serial keyboard that is basically used for PDAs. You can always use one of those serial-to-parallel converters to hook it up. Take a look at the KeySync keyboard: http://www.ibizcorp.com/pda_accessories/pda_keysync.html Here are some links on connecting it to Linux: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~jpc1/linux/ipaq/serial.html Cheers, Ram ? 2003 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 13 13:33:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard Message-ID: <200401131933.LAA11617@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Actually it is quite easy to use the parallel port of a PC as well, in a pinch. I'm looking for a keyboard that is more in the right age group ( about late 70's ). Dwight >From: "Ram Meenakshisundaram" > >This *might* help. For my transputer stand-alone workstation, I used a >serial keyboard that is basically used for PDAs. You can always use one of >those serial-to-parallel converters to hook it up. > >Take a look at the KeySync keyboard: > >http://www.ibizcorp.com/pda_accessories/pda_keysync.html > >Here are some links on connecting it to Linux: > >http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~jpc1/linux/ipaq/serial.html > >Cheers, > >Ram > >? 2003 OpenLink Financial > >Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is >confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not >intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or >disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if >you have received this message in error. > >Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of >any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into >which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the >recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility >is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any >way arising from its use. > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 13 13:56:37 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <40042726.5070104@srv.net> References: <40042726.5070104@srv.net> Message-ID: >Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>I've got a TPC image, that was originally from a MM: drive, and I've written it back out to a MU: drive (4mm in this case). I'm just trying to read the tape, I'm not trying to do anything fancy like boot from it. Is there any reason that I should have trouble doing this? >> >> Zane >> >> >What OS, and how are you trying to read it, what format is the tape in, >how did you create it, etc.? The OS is RSTS/E and the tape is ANSI, at least I think it's ANSI and not DOS, I'd have to check to be positive. This much I do know, I've converted the TPC file to a SIMH TAP file, and read it without any problem under E11 and SIMH. I've even used E11 to convert it to a RSX TAP image, which I've written to 4mm DAT on the same drive, and I can't read it. I've also taken the TPC file and written it on VMS on the same model DAT drive. What really mystifies me is that I'm able to read the tape without any problem using E11 running RSTS/E. Yet, I can't read either DAT tape that I've made. I've been able to read other tapes made this way just fine. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 13 14:25:34 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The OS is RSTS/E and the tape is ANSI, at least I think it's ANSI and not DOS, I'd have to check to be positive. This much I do know, I've converted the TPC file to a SIMH TAP file, and read it without any problem under E11 and SIMH. I've even used E11 to convert it to a RSX TAP image, which I've written to 4mm DAT on the same drive, and I can't read it. I've also taken the TPC file and written it on VMS on the same model DAT drive. > > What really mystifies me is that I'm able to read the tape without any problem using E11 running RSTS/E. Yet, I can't read either DAT tape that I've made. I've been able to read other tapes made this way just fine. Beware that *many* DDS1 drives cannot do variable-sized blocks very well... if memory serves me right, RSTS BACKUP format uses many block sizes in a single backup file: 80 - ANSI header 14 - RSTS file header 1024 2048\__ data block sizes, often +4 4096/ 8192 This might be your problem.. even though the tape image is fine, the drive doesnt let you use arbitrary block sizes. This may or may not apply to your drive.. Nico might know more about this- I just ran into this when writing an ASPI layer for my software... I was unable to tell the DDS drive to switch to 64-byte blocks.. it insisted on 512-b blocks. Cheers, Fred From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Jan 13 15:04:53 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040113160012.00bb8c88@mail.earthlink.net> to those interested in a parallel keyboard, I have a few Kaypro II keyboards from machines that were scrapped. I am pretty sure they are 8 bit parallel. I am on the east coast though and won't be able to take a look at them until I get back home on the 6th of February. They came off working systems, so they should be just fine. I just don't know key cap condition, etc. Email me if you would like one and I can email you in a few weeks when I get home. Price is $10 plus shipping. best regards, Steve Thatcher At 11:09 AM 1/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >would like to sell to me? >Dwight > > From tponsford at theriver.com Tue Jan 13 12:43:53 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody Message-ID: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> Sifting through ye ol' computer shed, I brought down two alpha 255's I intended to combine and make one working machine. I was not too surprised to find that the local field mice had got inside the case through an open pci-slot cover and had made a nest. I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to probably clean to motherboard from mouse urine. Any suggestions?? I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure I can clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back together. Cheers, Tom From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 13 15:17:24 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> Message-ID: Tom, > I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to probably > clean to motherboard from mouse urine. > > Any suggestions?? > > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure I can > clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back together. Take out the board, and thoroughly clean it with a cloth dipped in alcohol.. sometimes you have to get into the little corners (like under connectors or soldered chips) with a q-tip or alike, also dipped in alcohol. (yes, yes, I know.. thats abuse of good liquor....) Dunno if you can even GET that stuff here, now I think about it. Its just the 82% medical-grade stuff. --f From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 13 15:17:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Help fixing a broken RL02 In-Reply-To: <011220042122.18223.1563@comcast.net> from "nbreeden2@comcast.net" at Jan 12, 4 09:22:47 pm Message-ID: > > All, > > I'm looking for any hints or advice on repairing a broken RL02 > drive. I have two drives, one is working, the other indicates a fault. > > The unit with the fault lights the fault light as soon as it's > powered up, it goes through it's normal power up cycle (runs the spindle > at low speed) and seems normal beyond the fault. > > All power supply voltages are normal. 'All' meaning the +/- 8V rails and the +5V rail I assume. > > I've swapped the 'easy' to swap parts with my working unit however > the fault persists (swapped the logic board that lives on the top/back > cover, the servo board and the unit select buttons). Before I tear It could be a fault on just about any part of the drive. For example, the R/W module will cause a fault if it detects a current in the head (i.e. the drive is writing) without write_gate being asserted. > deeper into it I was hoping someone might have some hints or experience > that will help me. Stop swapping boards! That's no way to fix a computer (any computer, but particularly a classic one). Do you have the printset (schemciatics)? If so, look at the fault logic on the drive select board. You'll see it's basically a logical OR gate that combines about a dozen signals. First check that the output of that gate is asserted (just in case the fault lamp driver has shorted or something, although as you swapped ou the logic board this is unlikely!), then see which of the inputs is asserted. Trace back from there to find out _why_. At least the RL02 can be worked on without extended boards... -tony From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 13 15:22:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Tom Ponsford wrote: > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure > I can clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back > together. Here come the dishwasher arguments again... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 13 15:32:10 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <400463DA.6010207@jcwren.com> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi > Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >would like to sell to me? >Dwight > > > > > > Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where ASCII data and strobe are provided when a key is pressed, and an I/O mode, so that keyboard commands can be clocked back in. Multi-key sequences (like F1, etc) would be converted to VT100 keyboard sequences. Perhaps a few others terminal types would be supported, such as the TVI950. Information like Shift would affect the keycode, but would not be passed along (well, I guess we could, with a mode switch. But normally not. It'd just look like the keyboard data stream from a serial terminal). --jc From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 13 15:34:23 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> References: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> Message-ID: <4004645F.8020103@jcwren.com> Tom Ponsford wrote: > > Sifting through ye ol' computer shed, I brought down two alpha 255's I > intended to combine and make one working machine. > I was not too surprised to find that the local field mice had got > inside the case through an open pci-slot cover and had made a nest. > I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to > probably clean to motherboard from mouse urine. > > Any suggestions?? > > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make > sure I can clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back > together. > > > Cheers, > > Tom > I put boards in the dishwasher, all the time. I don't normally use detergent, but if I do, I use just a *tiny* amount of liquid. Too much and your dishwasher will foam at the mouth. I also don't use any dry cycles. I blot the board dry when it's done, usually smacking it against a towel to help knock any water out from under chips, or in connectors, then I let it air dry. --jc From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 13 15:35:19 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard Message-ID: <200401132135.NAA11716@clulw009.amd.com> Hi No, I think these are serial. They go through an RJ connector. Dwight >From: "Steve Thatcher" > >to those interested in a parallel keyboard, I have a few Kaypro II >keyboards from machines that were scrapped. I am pretty sure they are 8 bit >parallel. I am on the east coast though and won't be able to take a look at >them until I get back home on the 6th of February. They came off working >systems, so they should be just fine. I just don't know key cap condition, >etc. Email me if you would like one and I can email you in a few weeks when >I get home. Price is $10 plus shipping. > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > >At 11:09 AM 1/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi >> Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >>would like to sell to me? >>Dwight >> >> > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 13 15:55:36 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <400463DA.6010207@jcwren.com> References: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040113154414.0396a140@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 04:32 PM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >>Hi >>Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >>would like to sell to me? >>Dwight >> >> >> >> >Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel >keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where ASCII >data and strobe are provided when a key is pressed, and an I/O mode, so >that keyboard commands can be clocked back in. > >Multi-key sequences (like F1, etc) would be converted to VT100 keyboard >sequences. Perhaps a few others terminal types would be supported, such >as the TVI950. >Information like Shift would affect the keycode, but would not be passed >along (well, I guess we could, with a mode switch. But normally not. >It'd just look like the keyboard data stream from a serial terminal). > > --jc > Yes, that would be great! It would be excellent if it were small, had a PS/2 connector and a 26pin ribbon header with the following pinout to mate with my BigBoard's keyboard connector. Of course it should emit the equivalent of the AY5-1015 (if I recall correctly) parallel keyboard chip as well... 1 - KB0 3 - KB1 5 - KB2 7 - KB3 9 - KB4 11 - KB5 13 - KB6 15 - KB7 17 - !KBSTB 19,20 - +12 22,23 - -12 25,26 - +5 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16 - Gnd Waiting in anticipation! --tom From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 13 15:54:23 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan 13, 2004 09:25:34 PM Message-ID: <200401132154.i0DLsNKY024670@onyx.spiritone.com> > Beware that *many* DDS1 drives cannot do variable-sized blocks very > well... if memory serves me right, RSTS BACKUP format uses many > block sizes in a single backup file: > > 80 - ANSI header > 14 - RSTS file header > 1024 > 2048\__ data block sizes, often +4 > 4096/ > 8192 > > This might be your problem.. even though the tape image is > fine, the drive doesnt let you use arbitrary block sizes. > > This may or may not apply to your drive.. Nico might know > more about this- I just ran into this when writing an ASPI > layer for my software... I was unable to tell the DDS drive > to switch to 64-byte blocks.. it insisted on 512-b blocks. Interesting.... BTW, the DDS1 drive I'm using is a DEC TLZ06. Any idea if this might also be a problem with an Exabyte 8500 tape drive? It would be easier for me to attach an Exabyte 8500, than it would be to get a TZ30 hooked up. Well, maybe not that much easier, I think all the tapes are buried in the same spot :^/ Zane From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Tue Jan 13 16:18:49 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478036738C5@exchange.olf.com> A simple google search turned up: http://web.archive.org/web/19990219201152/sca.enlace.com.mx/carlosg/keyemu Note that the website is long gone, but archive.org has it cached away :-) Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: Tom Uban To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: 1/13/04 4:55 PM Subject: Re: Looking for a parallel keyboard At 04:32 PM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >>Hi >>Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >>would like to sell to me? >>Dwight >> >> >> >> >Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel >keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where ASCII >data and strobe are provided when a key is pressed, and an I/O mode, so >that keyboard commands can be clocked back in. > >Multi-key sequences (like F1, etc) would be converted to VT100 keyboard >sequences. Perhaps a few others terminal types would be supported, such >as the TVI950. >Information like Shift would affect the keycode, but would not be passed >along (well, I guess we could, with a mode switch. But normally not. >It'd just look like the keyboard data stream from a serial terminal). > > --jc > Yes, that would be great! It would be excellent if it were small, had a PS/2 connector and a 26pin ribbon header with the following pinout to mate with my BigBoard's keyboard connector. Of course it should emit the equivalent of the AY5-1015 (if I recall correctly) parallel keyboard chip as well... 1 - KB0 3 - KB1 5 - KB2 7 - KB3 9 - KB4 11 - KB5 13 - KB6 15 - KB7 17 - !KBSTB 19,20 - +12 22,23 - -12 25,26 - +5 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16 - Gnd Waiting in anticipation! --tom ? 2003 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Jan 13 16:05:23 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <200401132135.NAA11716@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040113165955.00bb8dc8@mail.earthlink.net> you are right... it has been a while since I looked at them. best regards, Steve At 01:35 PM 1/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > No, I think these are serial. They go through an RJ connector. >Dwight > >From: "Steve Thatcher" > > > >to those interested in a parallel keyboard, I have a few Kaypro II > >keyboards from machines that were scrapped. I am pretty sure they are 8 bit > >parallel. I am on the east coast though and won't be able to take a look at > >them until I get back home on the 6th of February. They came off working > >systems, so they should be just fine. I just don't know key cap condition, > >etc. Email me if you would like one and I can email you in a few weeks when > >I get home. Price is $10 plus shipping. > > > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > > > >At 11:09 AM 1/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >>Hi > >> Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they > >>would like to sell to me? > >>Dwight > >> > >> > > > > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Tue Jan 13 16:07:34 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody References: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> Message-ID: <00f101c3da21$a6da34c0$30594ed5@geoff> You're not kidding - you should have seen the mess that my wife's uncle's cat made of their VCR , never did work properly again - lots of coils with the varnish compromised etc. Over here I would use Safewash 2000 and rinse with water. I'll have a look for the equivalent American product. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ponsford" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: Mouse doody > > Sifting through ye ol' computer shed, I brought down two alpha 255's I > intended to combine and make one working machine. > I was not too surprised to find that the local field mice had got inside the > case through an open pci-slot cover and had made a nest. > I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to probably > clean to motherboard from mouse urine. > > Any suggestions?? > > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure I can > clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back together. > > > Cheers, > > Tom > From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Jan 13 17:07:16 2004 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: KDJ-11A won't run In-Reply-To: <1073995282.14479.12.camel@pluto> References: <1073995282.14479.12.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <40047A24.1020206@arrl.net> Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Hi there, > I'm working on what I am led to believe is a PDP-11/73 (but it doesn't > look like one). It *was* working last week, but one of the leads had > dropped off the console socket on the back. On resoldering, it worked > perfectly. > > Last night, when I opened it to fit the RXV21 another lead dropped of > (RXD this time), so again, I resoldered it. I don't think this has much > to do with the problem. > > When I power the machine up, the 2nd-from-right status LED lights up. >>From googling, it seems this means "SLU Error". The Run light on the > front panel comes on for a moment, then goes back out. The green LED on > the KDJ-11A never comes on (but I'm not sure that it ever did). All the > cards are firmly seated. > > Unfortunately I don't have a list of all the cards fitted to hand. >>From memory it is (might help to read this in a monospace font): > | M8192 | Serial? | > | full width memory card | > | RL02 Controller | > | ST506 | Console/ROM | > | M8029 | | > > Can't remember exactly, or quite what the cards are (some seem to be > third party). > > One - does this seem to be a sane layout of cards (modulo uncertainty on > my part); and > Two - What would cause my SLU Error, and how should I proceed? > > Thanks in advance, > Gordon Pearce > > > Assuming this is a BA23 cabinet, there should be just 1 board in the number 1 slot. The CPU. Be it quad width or dual width. -nick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 13 17:19:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <400463DA.6010207@jcwren.com> from "J.C. Wren" at Jan 13, 4 04:32:10 pm Message-ID: > Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel > keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where ASCII That was my first thought -- a PC keyboard + a microcontroller. Shouldn't be too hard to write the firmware.... Of course, not being the business type, I would probably have GPLed it, not tried to sell it ;-) -tony From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 13 17:23:50 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040113160012.00bb8c88@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: > to those interested in a parallel keyboard, I have a few Kaypro II > keyboards from machines that were scrapped. I am pretty sure they are 8 bit > parallel. I am on the east coast though and won't be able to take a look at Well, with only 4 leads in the coilcord to the computer itself, they are definitely not parallel in/out! - don > them until I get back home on the 6th of February. They came off working > systems, so they should be just fine. I just don't know key cap condition, > etc. Email me if you would like one and I can email you in a few weeks when > I get home. Price is $10 plus shipping. > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > At 11:09 AM 1/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi > > Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they > >would like to sell to me? > >Dwight > > > > > > From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Tue Jan 13 16:59:33 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> from Tom Ponsford at Jan "13, " 2004 "11:43:53" am Message-ID: <200401132259.PAA22692@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Tom, I feel your pain... My VAX 11/750 had mouse "evidence" all over its interior when I got it--including, but not limited to, a full nest on top of the console tape drive. Didn't really think about the potential problems with urine... But, with the exception of a bad RS-232 line receiver, which is a common issue anyway, it works great. John > > Sifting through ye ol' computer shed, I brought down two alpha 255's I > intended to combine and make one working machine. > I was not too surprised to find that the local field mice had got inside the > case through an open pci-slot cover and had made a nest. > I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to probably > clean to motherboard from mouse urine. > > Any suggestions?? > > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure I can > clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back together. > > > Cheers, > > Tom > > -- John Willis Coherent Logic Development willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From owad at applefritter.com Tue Jan 13 17:41:57 2004 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <400463DA.6010207@jcwren.com> References: <400463DA.6010207@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20040113234157.15835@mail.earthlink.net> On Tuesday, January 13, 2004, J.C. Wren, wrote: >Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel >keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where ASCII >data and strobe are provided when a key is pressed, and an I/O mode, so >that keyboard commands can be clocked back in. Here's one for connecting a PS/2 keyboard to an Apple II+ (ASCII parallel) using an ATMEGA microcontroller: For those of us that don't speak German, here's the discussion that lead up to it: Vince Briel uses a similar design in his Replica I, also an ATMEGA design: If you can't program your own chip, I'm sure Vince would be willing to sell you one. I'm not sure how Vince's design handles lowercase, it being intended for the Apple I, but he could certainly tell you. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 13 17:44:51 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel > > keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where ASCII > > That was my first thought -- a PC keyboard + a microcontroller. Shouldn't > be too hard to write the firmware.... > > Of course, not being the business type, I would probably have GPLed it, > not tried to sell it ;-) > > -tony > If anyone wants them I have >20 _blank_ PCBs that have a 28pin (16C63 I think) PIC location, Xtal for PIC, a MiniDIN PS2 KB input port, a MiniDIN KB output port and a 20 pin header. Intended as a membrane switch scanner (with PS2 feedthrough) but could function as a PS2-parallel adapter with the right firmware. Peter Wallace From kth at srv.net Tue Jan 13 17:47:04 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40048378.9080603@srv.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >>The OS is RSTS/E and the tape is ANSI, at least I think it's ANSI and not DOS, I'd have to check to be positive. This much I do know, I've converted the TPC file to a SIMH TAP file, and read it without any problem under E11 and SIMH. I've even used E11 to convert it to a RSX TAP image, which I've written to 4mm DAT on the same drive, and I can't read it. I've also taken the TPC file and written it on VMS on the same model DAT drive. >> >>What really mystifies me is that I'm able to read the tape without any problem using E11 running RSTS/E. Yet, I can't read either DAT tape that I've made. I've been able to read other tapes made this way just fine. >> >> >Beware that *many* DDS1 drives cannot do variable-sized blocks very >well... if memory serves me right, RSTS BACKUP format uses many >block sizes in a single backup file: > >80 - ANSI header >14 - RSTS file header >1024 >2048\__ data block sizes, often +4 >4096/ >8192 > >This might be your problem.. even though the tape image is >fine, the drive doesnt let you use arbitrary block sizes. > >This may or may not apply to your drive.. Nico might know >more about this- I just ran into this when writing an ASPI >layer for my software... I was unable to tell the DDS drive >to switch to 64-byte blocks.. it insisted on 512-b blocks. > >Cheers, > Fred > > > > Write a Quick & dirty program to read the blocks, printing out the size of each one. Something roughly like (not tested) 10 open "mu0:" for input as file 5% 20 get #5% 30 print recount 40 goto 20 99 end look at the sizes reported. You will probably get an error for the EOF markers, but we are mostly interested in the beginning of the tape. Should be something like "80 80 512 512 512 ... EOF" for an ANSI tape, or "14 512 512 512...EOF" for a DOS tape. If it begins with >80 character blocks, you're missing the headers. If you need to read past EOF's, try 10 open "mu0:" for input as file 5% 15 on error goto 80 20 get #5% 30 print recount 40 goto 20 80 print "[EOF]" 90 resume 20 99 end Be prepared to kill it, because it will skip all errors. (It's a really dumb program) You may also want to try (this is from memory, so may be wrong) I can't remember if this was at DCL or at the basic prompt. $ assign mu0:.ansi or $ assign mu0:.dos to force the tape format before trying to get a dir. I think "$mount/format=ansi" or "$mount/format=dos" will also do it too. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 13 19:02:27 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <007d01c3d971$378809e0$d008dd40@66067007> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> <007d01c3d971$378809e0$d008dd40@66067007> Message-ID: <1074041539.2230.13.camel@dhcp-249161> It's of course taken, with 10E6 people in line behind the first-comer, who since he's already Paypal'ed me, is excruciatingly-likely(*) to receive it. tomj * UPS truck swallowed in earthquake, comet crashes to earth on my lab, robbery, etc, there's always an out somewhere. On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 17:04, Keys wrote: > If you still have it I can paypal the money to you tonight or send you a > money order? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Jennings" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 3:09 PM > Subject: more COSMAC stuff > > > > I have an INFINITE CORP. Model UC1800 COSMAC "demo machine", quite used, > > but complete and it seems to work as far as I can tell. I posted to this > > list about it some time ago re: identifying it, but no replies. I have > > no documentation. It seems to respond to hex keypad entries, so likely > > it's working. > > > > First $20 takes it; I paid $10 for it and I'll pay to pack and ship it. > > > > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1898.jpg > > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1899.jpg > > > > > > tomj > > > > > > From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 13 19:08:50 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> <1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> No offense taken by me. It occurred to me momentarily to try to determine who would 'best' be the home for this object, but there's no way I can determine that, and to be honest, it's not a major item. If you would spend some seconds to imagine the possible scenarios... highest bid? Most spam? Most upper case pleading? tomj On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 23:47, kurtk7@visi.com wrote: > To the group, > > I was intending to just send this to Tom but as I posted to the group instead, > I just wanted to say this. We are all trying to find these systems and after > speaking to several on their intentions and efforts, you can tell where each > person focuses their energies and what they want to achieve. More than a few > of you have websites, virtual museums, and a few, the real variety (usually > housed somewhere out of the way, cost issues, always). I don't have a great > deal of money, but like all of you I do the best I can. It takes alot of time > and patience. This is an area I focus on, but I'm not the only one. I think > systems should go the homes that treat them best, much like children. If there > is someone better, then I gladly cede to them. Didn't want to come off being > arrogant, and apologize if that's how it did. Wasn't my intent. > > In 20 years, what will be left if we do nothing? I would like to open a real > museum around here, a goal but it will take time and money, the one is in > supply the other always short. I figure, that if people can't see it, in some > type of meaningful manner, interact with it, they won't appreciate it. Anyway, > if the Cosmac goes elsewhere, then just have to wait for the next one. One > day, I will find an APF Imagination Machine. I already wrote on this but it > got me into the career that I am in today. First system I ever saw. Personal > thing, but I always get the feeling I may never have a chance to find the > system, fearing this is the last one that is coming down the pike. I know > that's not true, but that's the fear, isn't it? The Elf's by the way, were the > second system I came upone, specifically the Cosmac, still remember the > advertisements. Back then it seemed computers had all the excitement and > potential, and the challenge. Not like today's 'appliances' in the stores and > over the top hype. > > Anyway, thanks for reading, > > Kurt From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 13 19:13:37 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> <1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com> <1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> Message-ID: <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> I dunno. It seems a little unfair to people who get the digests, etc. I know there's a thousand opinions about. I like the idea of picking a random number between 1 and 1000, and whoever gets closest without going over gets it. With a 3 day window, that gives everyone a fair chance to read the posting, respond, and have some hope. --jc Tom Jennings wrote: >No offense taken by me. It occurred to me momentarily to try to >determine who would 'best' be the home for this object, but there's no >way I can determine that, and to be honest, it's not a major item. If >you would spend some seconds to imagine the possible scenarios... >highest bid? Most spam? Most upper case pleading? > >tomj > >On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 23:47, kurtk7@visi.com wrote: > > >>To the group, >> >>I was intending to just send this to Tom but as I posted to the group instead, >>I just wanted to say this. We are all trying to find these systems and after >>speaking to several on their intentions and efforts, you can tell where each >>person focuses their energies and what they want to achieve. More than a few >>of you have websites, virtual museums, and a few, the real variety (usually >>housed somewhere out of the way, cost issues, always). I don't have a great >>deal of money, but like all of you I do the best I can. It takes alot of time >>and patience. This is an area I focus on, but I'm not the only one. I think >>systems should go the homes that treat them best, much like children. If there >>is someone better, then I gladly cede to them. Didn't want to come off being >>arrogant, and apologize if that's how it did. Wasn't my intent. >> >>In 20 years, what will be left if we do nothing? I would like to open a real >>museum around here, a goal but it will take time and money, the one is in >>supply the other always short. I figure, that if people can't see it, in some >>type of meaningful manner, interact with it, they won't appreciate it. Anyway, >>if the Cosmac goes elsewhere, then just have to wait for the next one. One >>day, I will find an APF Imagination Machine. I already wrote on this but it >>got me into the career that I am in today. First system I ever saw. Personal >>thing, but I always get the feeling I may never have a chance to find the >>system, fearing this is the last one that is coming down the pike. I know >>that's not true, but that's the fear, isn't it? The Elf's by the way, were the >>second system I came upone, specifically the Cosmac, still remember the >>advertisements. Back then it seemed computers had all the excitement and >>potential, and the challenge. Not like today's 'appliances' in the stores and >>over the top hype. >> >>Anyway, thanks for reading, >> >>Kurt >> >> From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jan 13 19:32:53 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: Had one of these machines myself back in the day. Wish I had seen the original post. On the other hand, I really need to stay focused on my PDP-8 Restoration Project... (Just a Reminder).... If anyone has or knows of any TU-56 DECTAPES (Drives, Media, Empty "Reels"), please contact me. Also interested in any other PDP-8 related items. Thanks All... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of J.C. Wren Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:14 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: more COSMAC stuff I dunno. It seems a little unfair to people who get the digests, etc. I know there's a thousand opinions about. I like the idea of picking a random number between 1 and 1000, and whoever gets closest without going over gets it. With a 3 day window, that gives everyone a fair chance to read the posting, respond, and have some hope. --jc Tom Jennings wrote: >No offense taken by me. It occurred to me momentarily to try to >determine who would 'best' be the home for this object, but there's no >way I can determine that, and to be honest, it's not a major item. If >you would spend some seconds to imagine the possible scenarios... >highest bid? Most spam? Most upper case pleading? > >tomj > >On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 23:47, kurtk7@visi.com wrote: > > >>To the group, >> >>I was intending to just send this to Tom but as I posted to the group instead, >>I just wanted to say this. We are all trying to find these systems and after >>speaking to several on their intentions and efforts, you can tell where each >>person focuses their energies and what they want to achieve. More than a few >>of you have websites, virtual museums, and a few, the real variety (usually >>housed somewhere out of the way, cost issues, always). I don't have a great >>deal of money, but like all of you I do the best I can. It takes alot of time >>and patience. This is an area I focus on, but I'm not the only one. I think >>systems should go the homes that treat them best, much like children. If there >>is someone better, then I gladly cede to them. Didn't want to come off being >>arrogant, and apologize if that's how it did. Wasn't my intent. >> >>In 20 years, what will be left if we do nothing? I would like to open a real >>museum around here, a goal but it will take time and money, the one is in >>supply the other always short. I figure, that if people can't see it, in some >>type of meaningful manner, interact with it, they won't appreciate it. Anyway, >>if the Cosmac goes elsewhere, then just have to wait for the next one. One >>day, I will find an APF Imagination Machine. I already wrote on this but it >>got me into the career that I am in today. First system I ever saw. Personal >>thing, but I always get the feeling I may never have a chance to find the >>system, fearing this is the last one that is coming down the pike. I know >>that's not true, but that's the fear, isn't it? The Elf's by the way, were the >>second system I came upone, specifically the Cosmac, still remember the >>advertisements. Back then it seemed computers had all the excitement and >>potential, and the challenge. Not like today's 'appliances' in the stores and >>over the top hype. >> >>Anyway, thanks for reading, >> >>Kurt >> >> From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 13 19:54:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > I dunno. It seems a little unfair to people who get the digests, etc. > I know there's a thousand opinions about. I like the idea of picking a > random number between 1 and 1000, and whoever gets closest without going > over gets it. With a 3 day window, that gives everyone a fair chance to > read the posting, respond, and have some hope. Well, who's to say what will be in high demand and what won't be? To each his own. But I have a solution: everything should get listed to the Vintage Computer Marketplace, and those who are savvy enough to be checking for new listings will be the ones who get the good stuff ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Jan 13 20:28:02 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody References: <200401132259.PAA22692@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: <002301c3da46$0b9a8df0$6501a8c0@barton> I've personally had good luck with denatured alcohol. You can get it at a good paint or hardware store. Ace hardware here has it for 9.99 a gallon, don't soak it though, just rinse it. If boards are really bad already it can clean a trace off, make sure you test an area first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Willis" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Mouse doody > Tom, > > I feel your pain... My VAX 11/750 had mouse "evidence" all over its > interior when I got it--including, but not limited to, a full nest > on top of the console tape drive. > > Didn't really think about the potential problems with urine... > But, with the exception of a bad RS-232 line receiver, which is > a common issue anyway, it works great. > > John > > > > Sifting through ye ol' computer shed, I brought down two alpha 255's I > > intended to combine and make one working machine. > > I was not too surprised to find that the local field mice had got inside the > > case through an open pci-slot cover and had made a nest. > > I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to probably > > clean to motherboard from mouse urine. > > > > Any suggestions?? > > > > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure I can > > clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back together. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > -- > John Willis > Coherent Logic Development > > willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com > > From ikvsabre at comcast.net Tue Jan 13 20:58:16 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joe Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <3A9F9A4AE5E0D311865700508B97404D0C31EA20@ex1.internal.workcover.sa.gov.au> References: <3A9F9A4AE5E0D311865700508B97404D0C31EA20@ex1.internal.workcover.sa.gov.au> Message-ID: <200401132158160828.0F66390B@smtp.comcast.net> New Jersey Joe *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/14/2004 at 9:07 AM Parker, Kevin wrote: >Where are you located > > >+++++++++++++++++++ >Kevin Parker >Web Services Manager >WorkCover Corporation > >p: 08 8233 2548 >e: webmaster@workcover.com >w: www.workcover.com >+++++++++++++++++++ > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Stevenson [mailto:ikvsabre@comcast.net] >Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:12 PM >To: Classic Computers Mailing List >Subject: Old IDE hard drives > > >Is there any interest in older IDE hard drives, 170-540MB? >I listed them on eBay, but got no response. I probably should have posted >them to the list, but I wasn't sure that was allowed, so I didn't. >If there is any interest, I will relist them. If it does not violate the >rules, I will provide links to them. > > >Here is a list of what I have: >Maxtor 7540AV 540 MB IDE Hard Drive >Seagate 1.0 GB IDE Hard Drive >Western Digital Caviar 212 MB IDE Hard Drive >Western Digital Caviar 256 MB IDE Hard Drive >ELS127 Quantum 127 MB IDE Hard Drive >ELS170 Quantum 170 MB IDE Hard Drive > > > >Joe > > >************************************************************************ >This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may >contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality >and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you >are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. > >Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the >WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have >been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files >transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. > >If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender >immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any >copies. >************************************************************************ From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Jan 13 21:03:28 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Need help shipping something big from NJ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4004B180.5040604@atarimuseum.com> If you need help, just let me know, if its in Northern NJ, I can drive down and help you out. Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > >>Sellam if its something a member could put in an SUV or maybe a uhaul, >>they could drive it up to Newark Airport and drop it off at Forward Air >>shipping which has a hub there, and Forward Air could then ship it over >>to the SJ airport where airport where you could pick it up. >> >>www.forwardair.com >> >>The only disadvantage of Forward Air if you have to drop off/pickup but >>their prices are great, they are (last time I used them, most of the >>Video Arcade collectors use them) $28 per 100lbs >> >> > >Hi Curt. > >Yes, I've used ForwardAir a couple times and in both cases it worked out >well. I am actually considering making a 2-3 day trip out of it. I've >never been to Jersey before and plane fare is relatively cheap these days >(<$200 round-trip on JetBlue). I don't relish going through the Arab >Harassment Process...er, I mean security checks at the airport, but I like >short little adventures like this. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 13 21:09:04 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: Mouse doody References: <200401132259.PAA22692@atlantis.clogic-int.com> <002301c3da46$0b9a8df0$6501a8c0@barton> Message-ID: <002201c3da4b$c445d8a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Unfortunately, I have a lot of experience cleaning mouse doody and urine :\ My solution is water for cleaning, followed by denatured alcohol. Give it a bath, pour it all over. The denatured alcohol is NOT for cleaning, it's for forcing the water out which if left unchecked can corrode. The only problem with denatured alcohol is it will definitely take off the heat sink compounds and such, and isn't great for some heat sinks themselves. So take those off, clean with water, then rinse with denatured alcohol then dry in the oven set to very lowest setting or with a hair dryer (careful about the fumes). And I still emphatically swear by Caig ProGold for cleaning all gold contacts, edge connectors... the best stuff made for that. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Girnius" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Mouse doody > I've personally had good luck with denatured alcohol. You can get it at a > good paint or hardware store. Ace hardware here has it for 9.99 a gallon, > don't soak it though, just rinse it. If boards are really bad already it > can clean a trace off, make sure you test an area first. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Willis" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:59 PM > Subject: Re: Mouse doody > > > > Tom, > > > > I feel your pain... My VAX 11/750 had mouse "evidence" all over its > > interior when I got it--including, but not limited to, a full nest > > on top of the console tape drive. > > > > Didn't really think about the potential problems with urine... > > But, with the exception of a bad RS-232 line receiver, which is > > a common issue anyway, it works great. > > > > John > > > > > > Sifting through ye ol' computer shed, I brought down two alpha 255's I > > > intended to combine and make one working machine. > > > I was not too surprised to find that the local field mice had got inside > the > > > case through an open pci-slot cover and had made a nest. > > > I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to > probably > > > clean to motherboard from mouse urine. > > > > > > Any suggestions?? > > > > > > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure > I can > > > clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back together. > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > John Willis > > Coherent Logic Development > > > > willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com > > > > > > > From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Jan 13 21:22:41 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <200401130741360218.0C55E96A@smtp.comcast.net> References: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.norton.antivirus> Although certain series of IDE drives from the manufacturers which Joe had listed occasionally have reliability issues, I think small drives like these are fine for use in PDP-11 machines, for example. I intend to bring up and run my PDP-11/34A plus one or two small 11/23 or 11/73 machines with modern hard drives and CDROMs. The 11/34A has a pair of RL02s with it, but they are somewhat lacking in easy-to-find blank media and capacity. 211BSD intrigues me to use on the 11/34A but I think the size is too large for an RL02. If I have an installable copy of RT-11 v4.x in a pile of RX50s and/or RX01/02s on hand, that would be a possibility too. IDE or SCSI are the choices we have with IDE drives being frequently available. However there is no clear solution (that I've seen) as to an ATA interface to either Qbus or Unibus. SCSI, on the other hand as discussion here has shown, presents a more practical mass storage system because there are plentiful reasonably priced small-sized SCSI drives out there and even drive interface cards to be found, albeit the cards are relatively expensive and somewhat hard to find. In addition to my PDP machines, I have a VAX-11/730 I want to get running but it came without any mass storage system. Yeah, I know it is slower than molasses in January (in the Northern Hemisphere ;-), but it is an early type big iron VAX and somewhat manageable as to physical size in this house -which is an important criteria. Ideal situation would be for me to install a Unibus SCSI controller and a SCSI HDD and CDROM into the 730. Lots of room. OpenVMS 7.2 is noted as working on the 11/730 (but not the 11/725). But I have a VMS v5.4 Grey Wall, so a version around that range would be probably just fine if I can find a distro on the proper media and buy a Hobbyist license. I also have an MVII which should get a drive retrofit of some sort. . To that end, given that there were two known homebrew IDE/ATA adapters (one from Ukraine; other shown at: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ ), I want to know everybody's opinion of these? I know sometime late last year there was some discussion of IDE on the DEC busses and I think the question was raised as to whether either worked and how well. The question did not get completely answered from what I can find. In fact, the dyndns.org ATA adapter has not shown any development progress since April 2002, so it may be a non-starter. What has anybody else done toward getting an IDE/ATA adapter of some sort built and stuffed into their Qbus or Unibus machine(s)? Regards, Chris NNNN Upon the date 07:41 AM 1/13/04 -0500, Joe Stevenson said something like: >Is there any interest in older IDE hard drives, 170-540MB? >I listed them on eBay, but got no response. I probably should have posted >them to the list, but I wasn't sure that was allowed, so I didn't. >If there is any interest, I will relist them. If it does not violate the >rules, I will provide links to them. > > >Here is a list of what I have: >Maxtor 7540AV 540 MB IDE Hard Drive >Seagate 1.0 GB IDE Hard Drive >Western Digital Caviar 212 MB IDE Hard Drive >Western Digital Caviar 256 MB IDE Hard Drive >ELS127 Quantum 127 MB IDE Hard Drive >ELS170 Quantum 170 MB IDE Hard Drive > > > >Joe Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 13 21:49:20 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.norton.antivirus> from "Christian Fandt" at Jan 13, 2004 10:22:41 PM Message-ID: <200401140349.i0E3nKnd001721@onyx.spiritone.com> > IDE or SCSI are the choices we have with IDE drives being frequently > available. However there is no clear solution (that I've seen) as to an ATA > interface to either Qbus or Unibus. > > SCSI, on the other hand as discussion here has shown, presents a more > practical mass storage system because there are plentiful reasonably priced > small-sized SCSI drives out there and even drive interface cards to be > found, albeit the cards are relatively expensive and somewhat hard to find. I really feel that unless you're a serious hardware hacker, SCSI is the way to go. While finding a SCSI controller will definitely take time and money, they can be obtained quite reasonably if you're lucky enough (I've obtained one for $5, and another for $50). For drives, all you need is a Narrow SCSI drive, and the odds are you don't need anything bigger than 2Gb (I use 100Mb, 200Mb, and 2Gb) drives on my systems). SCSI drives of that size are available, basically for free. > To that end, given that there were two known homebrew IDE/ATA adapters (one > from Ukraine; other shown at: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ ), I want > to know everybody's opinion of these? > > I know sometime late last year there was some discussion of IDE on the DEC > busses and I think the question was raised as to whether either worked and > how well. The question did not get completely answered from what I can > find. In fact, the dyndns.org ATA adapter has not shown any development > progress since April 2002, so it may be a non-starter. > > What has anybody else done toward getting an IDE/ATA adapter of some sort > built and stuffed into their Qbus or Unibus machine(s)? The Ukraine adapter isn't really practical unless you're in the former Soviet Union, and have access to chips that aren't easially available elsewhere. The "CHD" controller (who is CHD?) looks promising, but it also looks like a dead project. One other idea that has been bounced around for Q-Bus VAXen is to install a FDDI card in the Q-Bus system, and a second card in another VMS system, and then boot off of a cluster disk. Theoretically it has the potential to be faster than any disk available on a Q-Bus system! The problem is getting the parts to test the theory, as Q-Bus FDDI cards aren't easy to obtain (I'm looking for one). Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 13 22:30:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have an opportunity to pick up a HP 2114A with the 2155A I/O Expander and a 7900 disk drive. It was SUPPOSED to be complete and working when it was pulled out of service. The CPU is FULL of cards but only three cards in the IO Expander. What's something like this worth? The current owner wants some of my nicer areospace parts for it. Oh yeah, There's supposeed to be a good size stack of docs with this machine. We looked today but didn't find them. Anybody care to tell me more about the computer, expander or disk drive? Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 13 22:59:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? References: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005201c3da5b$339d6ce0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Nice. You really don't see 2114's around anymore. And 7900's haven't been common for a long time either - especially if both work. If this stuff is clean and in a good authentic rack, I would hazzard a guess of $800, maybe a little more - but then, it all depends on how bad the person wants it. At one time, I would have easily paid over 1500 for such a system, today, I would pass on it even at no charge (that may change after I finish cleaning the basement) :) One word of caution - on the 7900A drives, there is no carriage lock mechanism, and the detent only holds the carriage through very VERY minor jostles. The only way to lock the carriage (right) is with a special separate (removeable) metal bracket that screws in. Chance are the drive doesn't have this, it was normally thrown away when the drive was bought and unpacked. The 7900A is very unlikely to survive a move if the heads are not restrained, and without that special bracket, you have to do it with wire or two to three zip ties daisy chained. You can put one end around the front of the carriage behind the heads, pass the free ends out the airvent holes in the back, and tie together tightly. Speaking of the older (and non-multiplatter disc pack) HP drives, the 7900 has a plus (or minus depending on how you look at it). The 7900 uses an optical sensor (light through a marked glass reticule). All the other drives use a servo platter - and if you crash a servo platter it's not easy to get/make another (unless you have the servo formatting boards, a special servo head, a DSU, and a servo cartridge). The 7900 doesn't have this sensitivity - if a platter crashes, just replace it and be done with it. Another pro/con depending on how you look at it. The 7900 has no internal power supply, it uses a separate rackmount supply. This means the drive runs cooler inside. Of course, it also takes much more rackspace and will burn up the amp allotment for your pdu in a rack quick. Do NOT power up that 7900 drive until you disassemble the filter cavity, air hose, air nozzle, squirrel cage blower fan, etc. and clean inside and out thoroughly! As I recall, you can run TSB on it (2000/E) if you have a 12920/12921 mux set in the I/O section. If i remember right, 2000E wouldn't work with 7905/06 and later drives, you need a 7900 (or fixed head drive, lots o luck there). Unless you have good copies of OS's on 7900A disc pack, you are definitely going to need a paper tape reader 2748B to do much usefull with that system. I have a spare in need of minor repair. You will also want an HP diagnostic library on 7900A disc media for sure. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 12:39 AM Subject: HP 2114A value?? > > > I have an opportunity to pick up a HP 2114A with the 2155A I/O Expander > and a 7900 disk drive. It was SUPPOSED to be complete and working when it > was pulled out of service. The CPU is FULL of cards but only three cards in > the IO Expander. What's something like this worth? The current owner wants > some of my nicer areospace parts for it. Oh yeah, There's supposeed to be a > good size stack of docs with this machine. We looked today but didn't find > them. Anybody care to tell me more about the computer, expander or disk > drive? > > > Joe > > From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Tue Jan 13 22:34:45 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.norton.antivirus> from Christian Fandt at Jan "13, " 2004 "10:22:41" pm Message-ID: <200401140434.VAA23100@atlantis.clogic-int.com> I have loads of distributions of VMS (still in shrink wrap) somewhere in the 4.x-5.x range on TK50 media, if this would be of any use, I would be willing to sell. -- John Willis Coherent Logic Development willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 13 23:06:03 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> <1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com> <1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > I dunno. It seems a little unfair to people who get the digests, etc. > I know there's a thousand opinions about. I like the idea of picking a > random number between 1 and 1000, and whoever gets closest without going > over gets it. With a 3 day window, that gives everyone a fair chance to > read the posting, respond, and have some hope. Hey... I like this idea a lot. -brian. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 13 23:22:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:24 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <200401140527.AAA16659@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > To that end, given that there were two known homebrew IDE/ATA > adapters (one from Ukraine; other shown at: > http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ ), I want to know everybody's > opinion of these? > In fact, the dyndns.org ATA adapter has not shown any development > progress since April 2002, so it may be a non-starter. I think that's the one I was working on, back about then. I got a driver written, and it sort-of worked, but it was doing really bizarre things I couldn't explain. (Doing one-sector reads of sectors 0 and 1 gave different results from doing a two-sector read starting with sector 0, that's the flavor - but none of the reasonably simple explanations I came up with matched the behaviour I saw; I never did figure out what was going on. I was working remotely, which may or may not be part of why I never figured it out.) > What has anybody else done toward getting an IDE/ATA adapter of some > sort built and stuffed into their Qbus or Unibus machine(s)? Me? Nothing, though I *am* rather tempted to try to track down a Qbus interface chipset, some devel pcbs, and take on the task myself. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 13 23:32:35 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <200401132154.i0DLsNKY024670@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Interesting.... BTW, the DDS1 drive I'm using is a DEC TLZ06. Any idea if Hmm, wasnt the TLZ06 a DDS2 drive? At any rate, yeah, this drive might very well have this "problem" .. I had it with many DDS drives, might even have been a TLZ in that stack... I *do* know I tested it with a TLZ04. > this might also be a problem with an Exabyte 8500 tape drive? It would be Cant remember... only had a 8200 at the time, and cant remember the results of that.. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 13 23:34:26 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <200401140527.AAA16659@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: Hi all, Isnt Eric working on a semi-smart IDE controller? I believe he is doing a UNIBUS version, but it would take Real Engineer (tm) less than a day to add Qbus to the design spec... --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 13 23:44:13 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan 14, 2004 06:32:35 AM Message-ID: <200401140544.i0E5iDE7003886@onyx.spiritone.com> > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Interesting.... BTW, the DDS1 drive I'm using is a DEC TLZ06. Any idea if > > Hmm, wasnt the TLZ06 a DDS2 drive? At any rate, yeah, this drive > might very well have this "problem" .. I had it with many DDS > drives, might even have been a TLZ in that stack... I *do* know > I tested it with a TLZ04. > > > this might also be a problem with an Exabyte 8500 tape drive? It would be > > Cant remember... only had a 8200 at the time, and cant remember the > results of that.. > > --f Thanks Fred! At least now I know I'm probably not crazy. :^/ Now to decide if I get a TZ30 up and running, or try the Exabyte 8500. I might go with the 8500 as it's in a SCSI box already, and I should be able to hook it up to the /23+ without to much trouble (the /73 would require some rewiring). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 13 23:47:21 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan 14, 2004 06:32:35 AM Message-ID: <200401140547.i0E5lLMa003959@onyx.spiritone.com> > > this might also be a problem with an Exabyte 8500 tape drive? It would be > Cant remember... only had a 8200 at the time, and cant remember the > results of that.. > > --f Come to think of it, do you happen to know if this would work with a DLT2000, that might be the easiest, as I actually know where both the drive and tapes are without digging :^) Zane From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jan 13 23:54:28 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives References: <200401140349.i0E3nKnd001721@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <4004D994.10105@tiac.net> Adding a modern ATA drive (IDE) to a vintage computer is a very practical project. I'm running 20 gig ATA drives on an HP1000 using a home made controller. Its almost trivial if your not too concerned about performance, and only mildly interesting if performance matters. By far the hardest part is developing a driver for your chosen machine and O/S. The ATA control firmware is available freely. Grad a wire-wrap board for your machine and do it! From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 13 23:56:56 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <200401140544.i0E5iDE7003886@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Thanks Fred! At least now I know I'm probably not crazy. :^/ Now to > decide if I get a TZ30 up and running, or try the Exabyte 8500. I might go > with the 8500 as it's in a SCSI box already, and I should be able to hook it > up to the /23+ without to much trouble (the /73 would require some > rewiring). I had no trouble hooking up TZ30's to (cheap-and-slow) AHA1542 controllers in a PC. --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 13 23:55:31 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <4004D994.10105@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jan 14, 2004 12:54:28 AM Message-ID: <200401140555.i0E5tVtg004066@onyx.spiritone.com> > Adding a modern ATA drive (IDE) to a vintage computer is a very > practical project. > > I'm running 20 gig ATA drives on an HP1000 using a home made controller. > Its almost trivial if your not > too concerned about performance, and only mildly interesting if > performance matters. > > By far the hardest part is developing a driver for your chosen machine > and O/S. The ATA control firmware > is available freely. > > Grad a wire-wrap board for your machine and do it! What I personally think would be the most interesting would be to build a device that would emulate a given disk type (or types). For example, something that would emulate a bank of RL02 disk packs (shoot, you could probably used battery backed RAM). Have it so that it will plug into the real disk controller that way the OS just works with it, and it's transparent to it. I know this has been done commercially in a couple of cases. I'm afraid this is beyond both my ability and my free time. Zane From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Jan 14 00:25:09 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question References: Message-ID: <006401c3da67$2948a820$2201a8c0@finans> > > This might be your problem.. even though the tape image is > fine, the drive doesnt let you use arbitrary block sizes. > > This may or may not apply to your drive.. Nico might know > more about this- I just ran into this when writing an ASPI > layer for my software... I was unable to tell the DDS drive > to switch to 64-byte blocks.. it insisted on 512-b blocks. > Correct. I cant remember ever having seen SCSI drives with block sizes different from 512 bytes. The software I use for copying tapes, is able to make block-to-block copies, regardless of logical sizes. The only problem is that I have no TK drives. Despite my involvement in media conversion since 1986 or so, I have sold only one TK drive, and that one is in Norway. Cant even be sure about the type. As it happens, I go to Norway this weekend for PM at that customer (Tax Directorate), and I can check which one it is. What then could be a possibility, is that I convert the tape next time I get there, which will be around april 1 (no joke intended). Nico From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 14 02:38:25 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <006401c3da67$2948a820$2201a8c0@finans> References: <006401c3da67$2948a820$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <20040114083825.GA2021@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 07:25:09AM +0100, Nico de Jong wrote: > Correct. I cant remember ever having seen SCSI drives with block sizes > different from 512 bytes. I have some 4GB drives that were once 524 bytes-per-block. A couple of hours with an AHA1542 and its low-level formatting firmware fixed that! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-Jan-2004 08:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -21.2 F (-29.6 C) Windchill -43.6 F (-42 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.6 kts Grid 050 Barometer 683.6 mb (10492. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Jan 14 03:13:32 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question References: <006401c3da67$2948a820$2201a8c0@finans> <20040114083825.GA2021@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <000c01c3da7e$aeefa020$2201a8c0@finans> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" > On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 07:25:09AM +0100, Nico de Jong wrote: > > Correct. I cant remember ever having seen SCSI drives with block sizes > > different from 512 bytes. > > I have some 4GB drives that were once 524 bytes-per-block. A couple of > hours with an AHA1542 and its low-level formatting firmware fixed that! > You are probably speaking of SCSI disks. I talk about streamers. I have seen some funny formats on streamers, but those were QIC-02 and similar. Nico From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Jan 14 03:36:51 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <200401131801.i0DI0Cid078619@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > I've got a TPC image, that was originally from a MM: drive, and I've > written it back out to a MU: drive (4mm in this case). I'm just trying > to read the tape, I'm not trying to do anything fancy like boot from > it. Is there any reason that I should have trouble doing this? No. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From kelly at catcorner.org Tue Jan 13 13:24:54 2004 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Old IDE hard drives Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B8E7@mail.catcorner.org> > From: Joe Stevenson > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Sent: 1/13/2004 7:41 AM > Subject: Old IDE hard drives > Is there any interest in older IDE hard drives, 170-540MB? > I listed them on eBay, but got no response. I probably should have > posted them to the list, but I wasn't sure that was allowed, so I > didn't. Well, if no one else makes a claim, the older smaller capacity drives are usually in demand for amateur radio clubs. I have a reserve here for my local club. As an incentive, most of these clubs in the US are 501(c)3 corporations. You would be able to take these as a tax deduction. Find comparables on a refurb site, save the comparable resale value from when you donate as documentation of a resonable price, and count them as donations at the end of the year. Much of this also applies to older 486 computers. A lot of the software still used on the packet backbone will not run on newer machines. Of course, I am not an accountant, so please verify all of this, especially the comparables bit. Kelly From mail at softsmiths.co.uk Tue Jan 13 16:08:50 2004 From: mail at softsmiths.co.uk (Derek J Mott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 : dead power supply ? Message-ID: T I have heard there is a trick with mg-1 power supplies not working ... I cannot remember where i have seen it. If you have not heard of this trick let me know and i'll try and remember where i have seen it on the web rgds - Derek Mott From KParker at workcover.com Tue Jan 13 16:37:16 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Old IDE hard drives Message-ID: <3A9F9A4AE5E0D311865700508B97404D0C31EA20@ex1.internal.workcover.sa.gov.au> Where are you located +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: Joe Stevenson [mailto:ikvsabre@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:12 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Old IDE hard drives Is there any interest in older IDE hard drives, 170-540MB? I listed them on eBay, but got no response. I probably should have posted them to the list, but I wasn't sure that was allowed, so I didn't. If there is any interest, I will relist them. If it does not violate the rules, I will provide links to them. Here is a list of what I have: Maxtor 7540AV 540 MB IDE Hard Drive Seagate 1.0 GB IDE Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar 212 MB IDE Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar 256 MB IDE Hard Drive ELS127 Quantum 127 MB IDE Hard Drive ELS170 Quantum 170 MB IDE Hard Drive Joe ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 14 03:42:28 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <000c01c3da7e$aeefa020$2201a8c0@finans> References: <20040114083825.GA2021@bos7.spole.gov> <000c01c3da7e$aeefa020$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <20040114094228.GA8406@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 10:13:32AM +0100, Nico de Jong wrote: > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 07:25:09AM +0100, Nico de Jong wrote: > > > Correct. I cant remember ever having seen SCSI drives with block sizes > > > different from 512 bytes. > > > > I have some 4GB drives that were once 524 bytes-per-block. A couple of > > hours with an AHA1542 and its low-level formatting firmware fixed that! > > > You are probably speaking of SCSI disks. I talk about streamers. Oh... sorry... yes... you said "SCSI drives" and I didn't pick up "tape drives" from that. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-Jan-2004 09:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -22.5 F (-30.3 C) Windchill -40.9 F (-40.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.6 kts Grid 053 Barometer 683.6 mb (10492. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Jan 14 05:27:01 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Shipping from Canada - Was: Need help shipping something big from NJ In-Reply-To: <4004B180.5040604@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <200401141127.GAA93352@smtp.9netave.com> ForwardAir sounds pretty economical -- do they ship from Canada to the US as well? -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 10:03 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Need help shipping something big from NJ If you need help, just let me know, if its in Northern NJ, I can drive down and help you out. Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > >>Sellam if its something a member could put in an SUV or maybe a uhaul, >>they could drive it up to Newark Airport and drop it off at Forward Air >>shipping which has a hub there, and Forward Air could then ship it over >>to the SJ airport where airport where you could pick it up. >> >>www.forwardair.com >> >>The only disadvantage of Forward Air if you have to drop off/pickup but >>their prices are great, they are (last time I used them, most of the >>Video Arcade collectors use them) $28 per 100lbs >> >> > >Hi Curt. > >Yes, I've used ForwardAir a couple times and in both cases it worked out >well. I am actually considering making a 2-3 day trip out of it. I've >never been to Jersey before and plane fare is relatively cheap these days >(<$200 round-trip on JetBlue). I don't relish going through the Arab >Harassment Process...er, I mean security checks at the airport, but I like >short little adventures like this. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jan 14 06:34:03 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Atari Transputer Workstation (ATW800) on Ebay Message-ID: <0HRH0005ZC8UN6@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Check it out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2780486982&category=1247 Cheers, Ram From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 07:09:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <005201c3da5b$339d6ce0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, Thanks for the info. I tried to call you yesterday. The 2114 was one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about. I have a couple of other questions. How hard is it to find media for the 7900? (BTW I do have a PT reader and the 7900 PSU is there and it's all in an original HP cabinet.) How do I get the 7900 open? Aren't you supposed to apply power get them open? What is the capacity of the 7900 drive? Where do the IO cables come out of the 2114? There were NO cables connected to this one. I pulled the entire chassis out of the rack. There are Buffered TTY boards and such in the chassis. I suspect that the IO cables plug into those kind of cards and are supposed to run directly out the back. If so then it's missing the cables. BTW here's list of the cards that are in it. Note that the ,s in this list are as shown on the cards. I'll use ; to separate the items. A1,2; A1,2; A3,4; A5; A6; A6,7; A8-11; A8-11; A8-11; A8-11; A8-11; A12; A13; A14; A15; Bus IO; Bffr'd TTY Reg; Dual D/a Conv; Relay Out Reg; Gnd True I/O; Bffr'd TTY Reg; Multiplex I/O; Time Base Gen. On the I/O Config Chart it shows "HP Data 70", "TTY 70" and "Multiplex IO". There are only three cards in the IO Expander. They are; A112, A112 and Univ Intrf. Joe At 10:59 PM 1/13/04 -0600, you wrote: >Nice. You really don't see 2114's around anymore. And 7900's haven't been >common for a long time either - especially if both work. > >If this stuff is clean and in a good authentic rack, I would hazzard a guess >of $800, maybe a little more - but then, it all depends on how bad the >person wants it. At one time, I would have easily paid over 1500 for such a >system, today, I would pass on it even at no charge (that may change after I >finish cleaning the basement) :) > >One word of caution - on the 7900A drives, there is no carriage lock >mechanism, and the detent only holds the carriage through very VERY minor >jostles. The only way to lock the carriage (right) is with a special >separate (removeable) metal bracket that screws in. Chance are the drive >doesn't have this, it was normally thrown away when the drive was bought and >unpacked. The 7900A is very unlikely to survive a move if the heads are not >restrained, and without that special bracket, you have to do it with wire or >two to three zip ties daisy chained. You can put one end around the front of >the carriage behind the heads, pass the free ends out the airvent holes in >the back, and tie together tightly. > >Speaking of the older (and non-multiplatter disc pack) HP drives, the 7900 >has a plus (or minus depending on how you look at it). The 7900 uses an >optical sensor (light through a marked glass reticule). All the other drives >use a servo platter - and if you crash a servo platter it's not easy to >get/make another (unless you have the servo formatting boards, a special >servo head, a DSU, and a servo cartridge). The 7900 doesn't have this >sensitivity - if a platter crashes, just replace it and be done with it. >Another pro/con depending on how you look at it. The 7900 has no internal >power supply, it uses a separate rackmount supply. This means the drive runs >cooler inside. Of course, it also takes much more rackspace and will burn up >the amp allotment for your pdu in a rack quick. Do NOT power up that 7900 >drive until you disassemble the filter cavity, air hose, air nozzle, >squirrel cage blower fan, etc. and clean inside and out thoroughly! > >As I recall, you can run TSB on it (2000/E) if you have a 12920/12921 mux >set in the I/O section. If i remember right, 2000E wouldn't work with >7905/06 and later drives, you need a 7900 (or fixed head drive, lots o luck >there). Unless you have good copies of OS's on 7900A disc pack, you are >definitely going to need a paper tape reader 2748B to do much usefull with >that system. I have a spare in need of minor repair. You will also want an >HP diagnostic library on 7900A disc media for sure. > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 12:39 AM >Subject: HP 2114A value?? > > >> >> >> I have an opportunity to pick up a HP 2114A with the 2155A I/O Expander >> and a 7900 disk drive. It was SUPPOSED to be complete and working when it >> was pulled out of service. The CPU is FULL of cards but only three cards >in >> the IO Expander. What's something like this worth? The current owner >wants >> some of my nicer areospace parts for it. Oh yeah, There's supposeed to be >a >> good size stack of docs with this machine. We looked today but didn't find >> them. Anybody care to tell me more about the computer, expander or disk >> drive? >> >> >> Joe >> >> > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 14 07:11:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Fix your clock! (was Re: HP 2114A value??) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040114131154.GA28001@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jan 02, 1998 at 10:18:31AM -0500, Joe R. wrote: Joe, It's 2004... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-Jan-2004 13:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -27.2 F (-32.9 C) Windchill -38.3 F (-39.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.1 kts Grid 070 Barometer 683.4 mb (10500. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 14 07:13:31 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.norton.antivirus> <200401140527.AAA16659@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <004901c3daa0$3565ea80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Rather than dream I thought I'd just say that I'd pay someone $100 for one of these if they did it, or $250+ if it was a really good job. John A. From oliv555 at arrl.net Wed Jan 14 07:19:36 2004 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: E11 and RT11v2 Message-ID: I was trying to organize some E11 stuff, spread over several computers, and could not get my rk05/RT11v2B to boot. Some years back when I first loaded these images, I thought these had booted for me, but maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. Anyone ever succeeded in booting v2B under E11? -nick o From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Wed Jan 14 07:22:57 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: H89 lives - but for how long? Message-ID: <000801c3daa1$8705cd00$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Many thanks to Patrick Rigney for his help in getting my rickety H89 (it is literally held together in places with baling wire and wallboard screws) back on its feet - last nite it loaded and ran CP/M for the first time since ???. Here's my question - after the machine was running for a minute or so, the screen got very bright - the "black" background became green and the screen characters were so over-driven that they became "fuzzy". The brightness control worked (i.e. changed brightness levels) but the available range only went from "too bright" to "really too bright". After another minute or so, the brightness level gradually subsided back to normal and everything seemed ok for the next 20 minutes of operation. What caused the "glow" and what incipient failure does it suggest? [unpaid politically-correct endorsement]BTW - although Patrick is a regular participant in classiccmp, I "met" him through the Vintage Computer Market and his offer for NorthStar boot disks. Thanks Sellam and Patrick! Jack From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 08:04:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Fix your clock! (was Re: HP 2114A value??) In-Reply-To: <20040114131154.GA28001@bos7.spole.gov> References: <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114090415.007bf3a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Damm! How'd that happen? At least I know somebody's reading my messages :-/ I checked my outbox and it looks like this started yesterday morning. Joe At 01:11 PM 1/14/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Fri, Jan 02, 1998 at 10:18:31AM -0500, Joe R. wrote: > >Joe, > >It's 2004... > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-Jan-2004 13:00 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -27.2 F (-32.9 C) Windchill -38.3 F (-39.1 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 5.1 kts Grid 070 Barometer 683.4 mb (10500. ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 08:02:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: H89 lives - but for how long? In-Reply-To: <000801c3daa1$8705cd00$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114090215.007bfae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've never worked on a H-89 but it sounds like the power supply that's supplying power to the video display is losing it's regulation. Check the 12 VDC or whatever supplies power to the video display. I'm sure that you'll find that it's voltage is increasing at the same time that the screen blooms. Joe At 07:22 AM 1/14/04 -0600, you wrote: >Many thanks to Patrick Rigney for his help in getting my rickety H89 (it >is literally held together in places with baling wire and wallboard >screws) back on its feet - last nite it loaded and ran CP/M for the >first time since ???. > >Here's my question - after the machine was running for a minute or so, >the screen got very bright - the "black" background became green and the >screen characters were so over-driven that they became "fuzzy". The >brightness control worked (i.e. changed brightness levels) but the >available range only went from "too bright" to "really too bright". >After another minute or so, the brightness level gradually subsided back >to normal and everything seemed ok for the next 20 minutes of operation. >What caused the "glow" and what incipient failure does it suggest? > >[unpaid politically-correct endorsement]BTW - although Patrick is a >regular participant in classiccmp, I "met" him through the Vintage >Computer Market and his offer for NorthStar boot disks. Thanks Sellam >and Patrick! > >Jack > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 14 08:45:00 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114084440.03b86088@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Mike, Did you ever recieve those manuals and scan them? --tnx --tom At 04:41 PM 6/13/2003 +0000, you wrote: >>>I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, >>>which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described >>>here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm >> >>Say, I've got one of these, but without the tasty looking reader/punch. >> >>>I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might >>>still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. >> >>I am pretty sure I have the manual...somewhere :( >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >>Festival > >Think this is part of what you're looking for: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535770466 > >As soon as I get 'em, I'll scan 'em, in my Copious Free Time. > >(Proud owner of a 43 with the tasty reader/punch :-) > >Mike >http://www.corestore.org > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 14 08:54:12 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: free hardware In-Reply-To: <40005492.3050809@internet1.net> References: <40005492.3050809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <40055814.7040600@internet1.net> So I take it, that no one is interested in this stuff? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hi, > > I've sorted the following out. It's available for the cost of shipping. > Please reply off list. > > -IBM AT motherboard 512K > > -IBM serial/parallel card from AT > > -WD 512K video card > > -2 AT style ISA/PCI socket 7 motherboards model 586itbd, have both at > and atx power supply conections, use 72 pin, or sdram, I installed one > in a case, but never applied power. They're essentially new. > > -2 six foot scsi cables, 50 pin, centronics style connectors > > -scsi external terminator, centronics sytle > > -AT power supply, power switch on the end of cable. This is a later > model AT power supply, sort of like an ATX in size but without the > extra atx functions, 230watts I think. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 09:13:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114084440.03b86088@mail.ubanproductions.com > References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114101301.007f6800@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> If you scan them or make a copy I'd like to get a copy of it. I have a 43 waiting to be connected to a deserving computer. Joe At 08:45 AM 1/14/04 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Mike, > >Did you ever recieve those manuals and scan them? > >--tnx >--tom > >At 04:41 PM 6/13/2003 +0000, you wrote: >>>>I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, >>>>which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described >>>>here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm >>> >>>Say, I've got one of these, but without the tasty looking reader/punch. >>> >>>>I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might >>>>still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. >>> >>>I am pretty sure I have the manual...somewhere :( >>> >>>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >>>Festival >> >>Think this is part of what you're looking for: >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535770466 >> >>As soon as I get 'em, I'll scan 'em, in my Copious Free Time. >> >>(Proud owner of a 43 with the tasty reader/punch :-) >> >>Mike >>http://www.corestore.org >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 09:14:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: free hardware In-Reply-To: <40055814.7040600@internet1.net> References: <40005492.3050809@internet1.net> <40005492.3050809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114101453.007f6d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I guess not. Thanks for offereing but that kind of stuff is REAL common around here. Joe At 09:54 AM 1/14/04 -0500, Chad wrote: >So I take it, that no one is interested in this stuff? > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Chad Fernandez wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I've sorted the following out. It's available for the cost of shipping. >> Please reply off list. >> >> -IBM AT motherboard 512K >> >> -IBM serial/parallel card from AT >> >> -WD 512K video card >> From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 09:19:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: FA: RTTY books Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114101903.007f6d00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just put a pile of RTTY books on E-bay. I know this isn't exactly CC stuff but part of it such as the Digital Group computer used as a RTTY terminal are so I decided to announce it here. If you're interested in RTTY take a good look at "The New RTTY Handbook". It's a real find IMHO. See I will be adding more books and some RTTY equipment ASAP. Joe PS. I'm not a member of the Green Keys list but if a member wants to forward this message there, please do. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 10:03:03 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? References: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00b201c3dab7$e3f41380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > Thanks for the info. I tried to call you yesterday. Sorry, work has been such a royal PITA I turned my cellphone off yesterday and when it's on I've recently taken to not answering calls from numbers I don't recognize. My apologies! :\ > The 2114 was one of > the things that I wanted to talk to you about. I have a couple of other > questions. How hard is it to find media for the 7900? Fairly difficult. I may have one or two spare we can talk trade, if you can find them in a real shop that deals in media, expect $140 each. > (BTW I do have a PT > reader and the 7900 PSU is there and it's all in an original HP cabinet.) Very nice! > How do I get the 7900 open? Aren't you supposed to apply power get them > open? You have to apply power to get the front door to open so you can remove the media, that is safe to do. What I was referring to about don't power it up until cleaning and inspection is really dont hit the LOAD switch. You also have to be VERY carefull about removing the media in an unknown condition drive. If the heads did come out (the carriage extended during moving), when you open the front door it tilts the media up. You grab the media and pull it out. If the heads loaded, this action will bend the head arms and scrape the heads across the media and then you're pretty screwed!!! Here is what I would suggest: 1) extend the drive out of the rack on it's rails all the way. Make sure the anti-tip legs are out, if the cabinet has them. Be carefull about tipover. 1a) make really sure the drive is unplugged from any power source 2) Take the top cover off the drive, it's about 4 or 6 screws on top 3) Visually inspect that the carriage is all the way back. It's ok to move it forward (if they are all the way back) maybe 1 inch, you'll feel the detent. Of course, watch that you don't move the carriage so far forward that the heads go out on the media - you can see if they do pretty clearly. Then push the carriage back - you should again feel the detent and you'll see the heads get spread apart slightly on the plastic block thingy between the head arms. 4) Now that you're sure the heads are back, you can apply power, and in about 3 seconds the "door unlocked" light should come on. Ok to open the door and pull the media out then, and power off. While it's on and "door unlocked" you probably want to look and see if the "drive fault" light comes on or not. 5) As you'll tell from the detent pressure when you move the carriage, it doesn't take much of a jolt for the carriage to come out, so be carefull moving this drive. 6) If you can't move the carriage by hand at all, look around the carriage assembly to see if there is a metal bracket screwed in that obviously prevents the carriage from moving. Remove it - well, once you're ready to work on the drive. 7) Be cognizant of the detent - your detent may be tighter than mine. Just be aware as you try to move the carriage forward that once it does pass the detent it will move very easily, and you dont want to yank it suddenly forward so the heads go over (on) the media. 8) While the drive is extended, open the bottom of the drive, again, should be about 4 or 6 screws. With the bottom cover removed you should be able to see the power regulator board. On this board are some nicad batteries, I think about 3 or 4. Take these out and go buy new ones. They are not a particularly hard to find battery, batteries plus should have them. These batteries are what retracts the carriage if power is lost while the heads are loaded. You want to be very sure you have a good set, or if you trip a breaker or hit the power switch before the unload switch you'll be very sorry :) 9) As a result of the new nicad batteries, once they are installed, turn on the drive and let it sit for a few hours (do not load the heads [do not hit the load switch]) so that the batteries get charged up well. 10) I can't stress enough how clean the inside of the drive must be. Clean everything you see very very thoroughly. Be carefull of the head wires on the right, they are quite thin and fragile. Just one spec of dust is all you need to destroy your heads and platter. HP suggests masking tape around your fingers sticky side out and touching everything to get dust & particles - also 91 iso and kimwipes. 11) Under the drive take out the filter, and the big orange blower tube. Clean the filter best as you can, and run a big brush through the tube several times, get it all out. Clean the squirrel cage blower very thoroughly. I usually take the squirrel cage out and use a toothbrush with solvent, the dust on the squirrel cage fan is usually compacted and hard. Pay attention to the chamber where the squirrel cage fan is too. When you take out the filter, the bottom (fixed) platter will be exposed. Be VERY carefull not to knock any dust up there, or drag a wire or tool across it. I normally tape a cut to fit file folder card over the opening while I'm cleaning the rest. 11a) clean the upper and lower heads on both the fixed and removable platters with a qtip and 91% ISO. Be very gentle! 11b) it's best to clean the fixed platter. I seem to recall there is an opening in the casing to do this. I'll check where it is when I get home. 12) Disassemble your media cartridge, and clean it thoroughly. Get EVERY spec of dust out. Put a padded towel on a table, put a few kimwipes down, and put the bare platter on it. Clean both sides thoroughly with ISO 91 and kimwipes. Good idea to buff it too. Do NOT use anything other than kimwipes. Reassemble the cartridge. 13) It's ok to run the drive with covers off for short periods. Leave the top cover off and put in the media and power up. Hit the load switch. The heads will load in 25 seconds. Count till about 23 seconds, or, when the heads start to extend, and hit the unload switch immediately. Repeat this process several times. What you're trying to do is, when you hit the load switch the blowers come on, thus expelling any particles from the fixed drive chamber and the media cartridge. Doing this a few times gives a good blowout before you actually try to let the heads fly. 14) Now, hit the load switch, and pray. Watch carefully after 30 seconds and see the heads load. Listen very carefully for any sounds of HDI and soon as the heads are over the surface, hit unload. Do this a few times (getting the heads off soon as they start flying). Then, hit load and let the heads come out and sit. Listen very carefully for HDI. If you hear any wisps or clinks or drags, hit unload and find out why. 15) If the heads load and fly for 30 seconds after the load switch is hit, look at the front of the drive. If you see "drive fault" hit unload and power the drive off. You'll need some help troubleshooting from there. If instead of drive fault, after 30 seconds you get the "drive ready" light, you're all cool. Of course, you MAY have a burned out "ready" light, be aware of that. Those are the big points I can think of. It was a long time ago that I refurbed my 7900A, some of the specifics above may refer to a 7906 which is more recent in my head, but the main gist should all be correct. > What is the capacity of the 7900 drive? 5mb. 2.5mb on the removable platter, and 2.5 on the fixed platter underneath. Unless you have a 7901A, which doesn't have a fixed platter in which case it's 2.5mb. > Where do the IO cables come > out of the 2114? There were NO cables connected to this one. I pulled the > entire chassis out of the rack. I'm not up on the 2114. It's the same as the 2100 and 21MX, only slightly different :) There should be one section of the card cage for the memory subsystem, and another section of the card cage for I/O cards, and another section for the cpu cards. The disc drive should hook up to a "13210" disc controller (two card set) in the I/O section, same place roughly where you see the buffered tty board. > There are Buffered TTY boards and such in > the chassis. I suspect that the IO cables plug into those kind of cards and > are supposed to run directly out the back. If so then it's missing the > cables. Again, I'm not up on the 2114, totally different series than the 2100 and 21MX series. But, as I said, if there's no cables running from the drive to the cpu, then check the back of the drive. On the back right of the drive, there should be two slots. One slot should have a terminator card plugged in, usually with little extraction handles. In front of this, 1/2 inch closer to the back of the drive, should be an edge card connector sticking straight up, this is what your drive to cpu cable would connect to. This cable may be connected to the drive but the other end may be just loose in the bottom of the rack. Or the cable may be in the bottom of the rack not connected to anything. The cable, on both ends, should say "7900" or "13210" on the hoods, but this frequently wears off. If you don't have a cable set, I can get you the pinouts for the cable, but it's not easy to find the end connectors. I may or may not have a spare 7900 cable, they aren't common at all. > BTW here's list of the cards that are in it. Note that the ,s in this > list are as shown on the cards. I'll use ; to separate the items. A1,2; > A1,2; A3,4; A5; A6; A6,7; A8-11; A8-11; A8-11; A8-11; A8-11; A12; A13; A14; > A15; Hummm... those are most likely the cpu cards. Are you sure you read these off the card extractor handles, and not off the chassis? They sound like slot designations. No, wait... Ax should be cpu cards. But I'm very suprised there is so many cpu cards in a 2114. Maybe they combined the cpu and memory sections on the 2114. Memory boards should be pretty obvious visually. I know the 2100 and 21MX but not the 2114. Should be similar, but my knowledge may be a bit off for the 2114. > Bus IO; Bffr'd TTY Reg; Dual D/a Conv; Relay Out Reg; Gnd True I/O; > Bffr'd TTY Reg; Multiplex I/O; Time Base Gen. Bus I/O - pretty sure this would be the board that connects to the expansion chassis buffrd tty - this is a 12531 board, for a system console. Depending on the exact part number, could be 20ma current loop, could be rs232, could be both, I forget the max baud rate, I think 2400. Depending on the exact part number, you probably have to solder jumpers to change settings. Dual D/A conv, relay out reg, gnd tru I/O - these are all data acquisition stuff, perhaps one for the paper tape reader multiplex I/O - good question, can you get part numbers for this? My first blush guess would be multiple serial ports? TBG - provides system interrupt via programmable delay - a clock of sorts. Used by most everything. This is odd - there should be a 13210 two board set for the 7900. The paper tape reader should be using an 8-bit duplex register, forget the part number, something like 12566. However, I have heard really old HP's hooked the paper tape up to a different kind of board than I'm used to using, maybe the multiplex I/O. What I need are the part numbers off the I/O boards. This were normally written on the extractor handles. If not, take out the card and look for a number like the following format "13210-60002". The first number is the board type, the second number means many different things - options, field replacement vs. factory install, etc. > > On the I/O Config Chart it shows "HP Data 70", "TTY 70" and "Multiplex > IO". Doesn't ring any bells to me. Maybe RTE device addresses. > There are only three cards in the IO Expander. They are; A112, A112 and > Univ Intrf. That's just odd to me. I/O cards are not called Axxx, I/O card are called things like 13210, 13181, 13183, 13215, etc. Look on the cards themselves. Hope this helps! Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From hoang at faho.rwth-aachen.de Wed Jan 14 08:59:50 2004 From: hoang at faho.rwth-aachen.de (Phong Hoang) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: 9825B Message-ID: <20040114145950.24563.qmail@sylvester.faho.rwth-aachen.de> Hi Tony, i read an email of you in internet about HB 9825B. I would like to know if the CPU of HP 9825 works with little endian or big endian format. Do you have any information for me about this old computer ? I'm trying to write a small testprogram (windows 2000 / VC++ 6.0) for directing the HP analyzer 4145A. Its manual has a sample program for this computer 9825B. If you have any information for me ... it is very nice. Thanks alot Hoang From johncurtis at lifecyclers.org Wed Jan 14 10:16:54 2004 From: johncurtis at lifecyclers.org (johncurtis@lifecyclers.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: as400 Message-ID: <000801c3dab9$d9d6be00$6e00a8c0@jcpc> i have a as400 9404 for parts it has 4 cards #6152 3 #2641 #2517 #6140 #2625 #6150 #4114 #4104 #2515 also a tape drive and a 5 1\4 floppy,pwr.supply and battery back up. are you interested in buying cheap? 5 From mlalibe at mindspring.com Wed Jan 14 08:21:15 2004 From: mlalibe at mindspring.com (Michael LaLiberte) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Ebka Familiarizor 6502 Message-ID: <410-220041314142115229@mindspring.com> I have a 6502 unit - do you know the value of it's worth? Reply at etawv@aol.com Michael LaLiberte mlalibe@mindspring.com Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. From technobug at comcast.net Wed Jan 14 11:29:48 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (Claude Ceccon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <200401141415.i0EEF7iS087392@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401141415.i0EEF7iS087392@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40A1C035-46B7-11D8-B2E9-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Some comments on cleaning electronics which have been despoiled by biorchid rodents and other sources: Loose stuff should be removed by dusting, vacuuming or blowing off the offending offal. However, in low humidity locations be aware that you can build up fairly large static charges can be generated by vacuum cleaners / air jets. I normally place boards on conductive mats and ground the nozzle to the mat, or in the case of cabinets, the cabinet. The remaining junk to be removed is either water soluble or not. If water soluble, water is the best means of cleaning. If insoluble, then a suitable surfactant added to water will remove oils, etc. That leaves the nasty stuff that requires a solvent. Isopropyl alcohol is a good starting choice - anything stronger is likely to dissolve wanted items. If you use soap do not use one that is extremely caustic - you can remove things that you want like the copper runs. Hand dishwashing soaps are generally safe. However, the last step in any cleaning process should be a rinse with ** de-ionized ** water and a thorough drying. This will remove any conductive remnants that remain. I generally air dry my stuff over night (Arizona, but recommend 6 months for Florida). If you are in a hurry, a hair dryer or and oven at 140F/60C will hasten things ( using heat guns and warmer ovens runs the risk of doing in capacitors and removing surface mount items). Distilled water can be used in a pinch, but be aware that the stuff is corrosive. This last step is especially important if you have CMOS or analog circuits involved. The military uses pure alcohol as a final step to remove any remaining water. However, the stuff they use is far less volatile than isopropyl and does not contain any water. Of late I have been playing with a daily shower cleaner (USA->TILEX Fresh Shower). The stuff has isopropanol, a great surfactant, and a chelating agent. The latter ingredient will take off those insoluble minerals that remain. Seems to work well. If you go this route, ensure that you read the label - there are shower cleaners that have acid in them and will definitely take everything off the board... Still do the de-ionized rinse afterwards. A couple of precautions: dip switches should be sealed with tape to limit wetting. I generally drop some switch lubricant/cleaner in each and exercise the switch subsequent to cleaning. Unplug and remove relays, if possible. Switches, relays, connectors, and edge connectors should get a treatment with a suitable lubricant/preservative. Lastly, you should do all the above in the undisturbed privacy of your home. A number of years ago, a friend's salt sculpture atop his TV broke filling the set with the super-saturated salt solution. I told him to take the set out back, remove the back, and hose it out. A nosy neighbor asked what he was doing and he said that he was watering the set to make it grow bigger. He related the line to the sheriff that subsequently showed up. I then spent the afternoon convincing the psychologist that hosing down a TV was a rational act... Claude Ceccon From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 12:22:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <40A1C035-46B7-11D8-B2E9-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> References: <200401141415.i0EEF7iS087392@huey.classiccmp.org> <200401141415.i0EEF7iS087392@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114132247.00811100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:29 AM 1/14/04 -0700, Claude Ceccon wrote: >Some comments on cleaning electronics which have been despoiled by >biorchid rodents and other sources: > >Loose stuff should be removed by dusting, vacuuming or blowing off the >offending offal. A word of warning here. Some offal contains infections germs and can spread disease. Don't inhale the stuff. I'd recommend vacuuming it up instead of blowing it around. It might be a good idea to wear a dust mask either way. > >Lastly, you should do all the above in the undisturbed privacy of your >home. A number of years ago, a friend's salt sculpture atop his TV >broke filling the set with the super-saturated salt solution. I told >him to take the set out back, remove the back, and hose it out. A nosy >neighbor asked what he was doing and he said that he was watering the >set to make it grow bigger. He related the line to the sheriff that >subsequently showed up. I then spent the afternoon convincing the >psychologist that hosing down a TV was a rational act... Rofl! Joe > > > > From ikvsabre at comcast.net Wed Jan 14 12:33:45 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joseph Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: free hardware References: <40005492.3050809@internet1.net> <40055814.7040600@internet1.net> Message-ID: <001c01c3dacc$f99ee6f0$3514320a@njserve.aseco.net> I'm interested in the AT modtherboard. More precisely, the DRAMs. let me know what the postage would be to 07008 Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: ; "Discussion@internet1.net :On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: Re: free hardware > So I take it, that no one is interested in this stuff? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I've sorted the following out. It's available for the cost of shipping. > > Please reply off list. > > > > -IBM AT motherboard 512K > > > > -IBM serial/parallel card from AT > > > > -WD 512K video card > > > > -2 AT style ISA/PCI socket 7 motherboards model 586itbd, have both at > > and atx power supply conections, use 72 pin, or sdram, I installed one > > in a case, but never applied power. They're essentially new. > > > > -2 six foot scsi cables, 50 pin, centronics style connectors > > > > -scsi external terminator, centronics sytle > > > > -AT power supply, power switch on the end of cable. This is a later > > model AT power supply, sort of like an ATX in size but without the > > extra atx functions, 230watts I think. > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 12:41:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <00b201c3dab7$e3f41380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114134105.0079cdb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:03 AM 1/14/04 -0600, you wrote: >You wrote... >> Thanks for the info. I tried to call you yesterday. >Sorry, work has been such a royal PITA I turned my cellphone off yesterday >and when it's on I've recently taken to not answering calls from numbers I >don't recognize. My apologies! :\ No problem. I do the same thing sometimes. Sometimes it's the only way to get anything done. > >> The 2114 was one of >> the things that I wanted to talk to you about. I have a couple of other >> questions. How hard is it to find media for the 7900? >Fairly difficult. I may have one or two spare we can talk trade, if you can >find them in a real shop that deals in media, expect $140 each. Ouch! Can you tell me what it looks like or better yet send me a picture or a URL to a picture. I have some old media around. I may have something that will work. . >8) While the drive is extended, open the bottom of the drive, again, should >be about 4 or 6 screws. With the bottom cover removed you should be able to >see the power regulator board. On this board are some nicad batteries, I >think about 3 or 4. Take these out and go buy new ones. They are not a >particularly hard to find battery, batteries plus should have them. These >batteries are what retracts the carriage if power is lost while the heads >are loaded. You want to be very sure you have a good set, or if you trip a >breaker or hit the power switch before the unload switch you'll be very >sorry :) I KNOW what you mean! I used to repair hard dirves for Burroughs Corp and I've replaced many a head and disk cartridge due to bad batteries. Burroughs used Saft batteries and they're JUNK! That should be enough to get me started. I just wanted to be aware of any Got-Yas. >> What is the capacity of the 7900 drive? >5mb. 2.5mb on the removable platter, and 2.5 on the fixed platter >underneath. Unless you have a 7901A, which doesn't have a fixed platter in >which case it's 2.5mb. Nope it's a 7900A. I didn't realize that it had a fixed disk :-) Is there any reason I can't use it like it is (without a removeable disk)for the time being? Are the NiCads used for the fixed disk? Is the air filter system used for the fixed disk or just the removeable one? > >> Where do the IO cables come >> out of the 2114? There were NO cables connected to this one. I pulled the >> entire chassis out of the rack. >I'm not up on the 2114. It's the same as the 2100 and 21MX, only slightly >different :) There should be one section of the card cage for the memory >subsystem, and another section of the card cage for I/O cards, and another >section for the cpu cards. No this one appears to only have the front section of cards and they're accessed through the top cover and not the front. It doesn't appear to have a back section. The back appears to be occupied by a largish core memory block on the left side and a couple of power supplies. The core memory is in a stack and appears to be about 5" cube. There are no 13210 (1xxxx) type part numbers on the cards. At least not on the handles and back edge. They're all marked on the card handles exactly as I listed them ("A12", "A1,2", "Bffrd TTY Reg", etc). >What I need are the part numbers off the I/O boards. This were normally >written on the extractor handles. If not, take out the card and look for a >number like the following format "13210-60002". The first number is the >board type, the second number means many different things - options, field >replacement vs. factory install, etc. I'll go back tomorrow and pull the cards and take a closer look. Joe From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Jan 14 12:43:26 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: MFM Controller queries Message-ID: <200401141043260497.03C3F06E@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, I have an Atlantic Research 7000 series datascope that is dependent on an MFM drive to run itself. It works fine at the moment (testament to the durability of early drives, I suppose), but I would like to be able to take an image snapshot of its hard drive in case of failure. With that in mind, I'm starting to accumulate a small variety of MFM controllers (going for variety because I have no idea what the determining factor is going to be in which controller is able to read the drive). So far, I've found a WD1002-WA2 and a WD1003-WA2. I still have memories of the last and (supposedly) best MFM board that WD made, in the form of the WD1006V-MM2, but I've had no luck finding one as yet (nor do I know if I really even need one). Suggestions for what to go after would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jan 14 12:44:36 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Mouse doody References: <200401141415.i0EEF7iS087392@huey.classiccmp.org> <200401141415.i0EEF7iS087392@huey.classiccmp.org> <3.0.6.32.20040114132247.00811100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000c01c3dace$75f95ae0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:22 PM Subject: Re: Mouse doody > At 10:29 AM 1/14/04 -0700, Claude Ceccon wrote: > >Some comments on cleaning electronics which have been despoiled by > >biorchid rodents and other sources: > > > >Loose stuff should be removed by dusting, vacuuming or blowing off the > >offending offal. > > A word of warning here. Some offal contains infections germs and can > spread disease. Don't inhale the stuff. I'd recommend vacuuming it up > instead of blowing it around. It might be a good idea to wear a dust mask > either way. > > > Rat dung can have a deadly bacteria or something in it and is treated as a hazardous waste. Using a vacuum cleaner will make sure that you will end up breating in the dust (even a hepa filtered bag will probably not be enough for bacteria). best bet is to do all cleaning outside while wearing one of those masks painters wear and using 2 layers of gloves while your doing it. Double bag anything you remove. Call an exterminator and ask what they use when they exterminate rats and clean up thier droppings. From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 14 12:58:24 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: MFM Controller queries References: <200401141043260497.03C3F06E@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <40059150.86404A56@rain.org> The collection I have includes a couple dozen of both 8 and 16 bit cards; IBM, Xebec, Adaptec, NCS, WD, and others I can't remember. My inclination is to say if it is out there, get it :)!!! I would also include RLL controllers and other formats as well. The 8 bit cards seem to be getting harder to come across although it has been a while since I've seen any MFM controllers. I think the same comments apply to MFM drives. Bruce Lane wrote: > > I have an Atlantic Research 7000 series datascope that is dependent on an MFM drive to run itself. It works fine at the moment (testament to the durability of early drives, I suppose), but I would like to be able to take an image snapshot of its hard drive in case of failure. > > With that in mind, I'm starting to accumulate a small variety of MFM controllers (going for variety because I have no idea what the determining factor is going to be in which controller is able to read the drive). > > So far, I've found a WD1002-WA2 and a WD1003-WA2. I still have memories of the last and (supposedly) best MFM board that WD made, in the form of the WD1006V-MM2, but I've had no luck finding one as yet (nor do I know if I really even need one). > > Suggestions for what to go after would be greatly appreciated. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 13:03:05 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? References: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040114134105.0079cdb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <017501c3dad1$0a6f6b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > Ouch! Can you tell me what it looks like or better yet send me a picture > or a URL to a picture. I have some old media around. I may have something > that will work. I believe the manual states something to the effect of "mechanically equivalent to an IBM 2313", but NOT interchangeable. There is a major thing to watch out for here. The disk cartridges are virtually identical between the 7900, and the 7905/06. However, one is a 50 mil platter and one is a 75 mil platter. I forget which one goes with which drive. I believe the 75 mil is 7900 and 50 mil is 7905/06 but I will verify this for sure. Most media has an HP part number on it that will tell you for sure, but once you get used to looking at them you can tell easily by opening the cartridge access door and looking at the platter (thick or thin). Put one media in the wrong drive and it won't work, put the other media in the wrong drive and you're gauranteed a very expensive and time consuming set of repairs :) To my knowledge, the cartridges used in the 7900/05/06 are not the same as in other common 14" drives I've run into at least. You may also run into problems using other media due to the certification of the density of the platter. I THINK the ones HP used were 2200? > I KNOW what you mean! I used to repair hard dirves for Burroughs Corp and > I've replaced many a head and disk cartridge due to bad batteries. > Burroughs used Saft batteries and they're JUNK! They are a AA form factor nicad battery. Read the specs off the battery and get replacements just like it. I got mine at "batteries plus", it's a chain of battery stores here. > Nope it's a 7900A. I didn't realize that it had a fixed disk :-) Is > there any reason I can't use it like it is (without a removeable disk)for > the time being? YES there is a reason. The two heads for the removable platter and the two heads for the fixed platter are on the same armature. You can NOT run the drive at all without the removable media in place. > Are the NiCads used for the fixed disk? They are used to retract the voice coil, which holds both sets of heads. They are not independent, so the nicads are for both. > Is the air filter > system used for the fixed disk or just the removeable one? Air blows from the vents in front (replace the foam in the access door by the way), through the squirrel cage to the filter. The filter splits the airflow in two. One (through the big orange tube) blows over the power transistors on the regulator board at the bottom. The other air flow goes into the bottom (fixed) platter chamber. A hole in the top of the bottom chamber lets the air blow into the media cartridge casing (when you put the media in place and close the door, a trap door in the bottom of the media opens right over the hole in the top of the fixed chamber). All air is exhausted out the opening where the heads go in and out. > No this one appears to only have the front section of cards and they're > accessed through the top cover and not the front. It doesn't appear to have > a back section. The back appears to be occupied by a largish core memory > block on the left side and a couple of power supplies. The core memory is > in a stack and appears to be about 5" cube. Then it does have a front and back section, back section for memory. In the front, there should be some designation as to what slots are for cpu cards and what slots are for I/O cards. The 2100 for example has blue on the cpu card section and red on the I/O card section (as the slots are different electrically), and a black section for the memory. Sounds like the core memory section on the 2114 is VERY different from the core section on the 2100 (and 2116). > I'll go back tomorrow and pull the cards and take a closer look. Ok, with the card numbers off the circuit boards I could probably tell you more. I'd recommend going to great lengths to find the docs that supposedly came with the system!! Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Jan 14 13:22:53 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> References: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> Message-ID: <4005970D.6000608@cox.net> I use dishwashing liquid (Dawn; cuts through grease... and urine!) and a medium stiff toothbrush to scrub away everything. Rinse well, and then use compressed air to dry the boards. I use isopropanol alcohol to clean any flux residue. I have been using this method for 20+ years with no troubles to date. If you want to make things *sparkle*, try some Tarn-x with that toothbrush after the washings. Rinse well and grab sunglasses! For a few before and after pics of this method, see my digital group page: http://members.cox.net/oldcomp/dg_restore.htm -Bryan P.S. My wife would unload her Mac-11 on my arse if I were to even think of putting something with mouse crap on it in her dishwasher! Tom Ponsford wrote: > > Sifting through ye ol' computer shed, I brought down two alpha 255's I > intended to combine and make one working machine. > I was not too surprised to find that the local field mice had got inside > the case through an open pci-slot cover and had made a nest. > I cleaned out the seeds and wadding and mouse doody, but I need to > probably clean to motherboard from mouse urine. > > Any suggestions?? > > I know urine can have a possible corrosive effect so I want to make sure > I can clean the MB thoroughly, before attempting to put it back together. > > > Cheers, > > Tom > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jan 14 13:52:54 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: Fix your clock! (was Re: HP 2114A value??) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040114090415.007bf3a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040114090415.007bf3a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: In message <3.0.6.32.20040114090415.007bf3a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> "Joe R." wrote: > Damm! How'd that happen? At least I know somebody's reading my messages > :-/ I checked my outbox and it looks like this started yesterday morning. 01/JAN/1998 is the default date for most Award PC BIOSes. Given that your message's headers contain "X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora", I'd hazard a guess that you're using a PC. I reckon your PC's CMOS battery is on the way out. I'd also hazard a guess that it's a CR2032 lithium coin cell. Probe it with a voltmeter, if the voltage is lower than 2.5V, replace it. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jan 14 14:10:58 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:25 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? Message-ID: <200401142010.i0EKAwP21471@mwave.heeltoe.com> This may seem silly, but it occured to me this morning (musing about how to boot an old 11/34) that I could use a device which would pretend to be an actual tape drive. There are lots of tape images out there (on the web) in the form of big disk files. It would be nice to be able to turn one of my pc's into a "virtual tape drive" by plugging a cable from the pc into a TS11 controller... Has anyone ever seen such a device? seems like it would not be that hard to build (he said, never having looked at the interface between a physical tape drive and a controller like a TS11). I hope to find an old RL01/2 drive around the Boston area (anyone?) but even when I do it seems bootstrapping will be an issue. Even if I grab one of those Dilog controllers which talk SCSI I'll need some way to load up the drives initially. It's just that those 9-track drives are *really heavy* :-) any comments appreciated! -brad From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 14:27:01 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: Hello All: I've just started a new job (!) at a small firm that does computer consulting for architectural firms. One project we are involved with is a study for the Art Institute of Chicago on how best to collect the digital design data (CAD files, 3D renderings, PowerPoint client presentations, etc.) that architects are more and more producing. One question that has arisen is, even if we save the raw files, how will we view them in 50 (or even 5) years? The AIC doesn't want to collect all the systems and software that architects use, so the suggestion to use emulators has come up. I'd like to pick the collective brains of the list and ask what emulators people know of. If you could email me at rfeldmankfainccom, listing the hardware and software emulated and what the emulator runs on, I'd appreciate it. Many thanks in advance, Bob _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up — fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 From adamg at pobox.com Wed Jan 14 12:54:09 2004 From: adamg at pobox.com (Adam Goldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: SGI 4D Power Series still available Message-ID: <20040114185409.GA73304@silme.pair.com> I'm still looking for a home for the big, heavy SGI I mentioned the other day. It's going to /dev/null if I don't hear from anyone in Los Angeles who wants it within the next few days :-( -- Adam From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 14 14:29:26 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? In-Reply-To: <200401142010.i0EKAwP21471@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401142010.i0EKAwP21471@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: >This may seem silly, but it occured to me this morning (musing about how >to boot an old 11/34) that I could use a device which would pretend to >be an actual tape drive. You can take a look at 'vtserver', though it seems to only be for Unix (I'm not positive about this, as I've not looked into it much). >I hope to find an old RL01/2 drive around the Boston area (anyone?) but >even when I do it seems bootstrapping will be an issue. Even if I grab >one of those Dilog controllers which talk SCSI I'll need some way to >load up the drives initially. It's just that those 9-track drives are >*really heavy* :-) If you get RL02 drives, and a MicroVAX (Q-Bus) with an RLV12 controller to drive the RL01/RL02 drives, there are a few tricks that you can pull to get an OS onto the packs. Still, that might be a lot more hardware to collect. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 14 14:33:40 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: E11 and RT11v2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I was trying to organize some E11 stuff, spread over several computers, and could not get my rk05/RT11v2B to boot. > >Some years back when I first loaded these images, I >thought these had booted for me, but maybe my memory is >playing tricks on me. Anyone ever succeeded in >booting v2B under E11? I'm pretty sure I've booted V2C off of an RP02 using E11, for one thing I don't think that simh supports RP02's or at least at that time it didn't. I can't check, as I don't have a system that can run E11 at the moment (I really do need to find time to get a small x86 Linux box up and running for E11, simh, and KLH10). I think it was simh that I used for booting RT-11 V1. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Jan 14 14:35:30 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 HD question Message-ID: <31CD4D82-46D1-11D8-A26B-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> So what is the actual harddisk in a lisa 2/10 ? I believed it to be a ST412, but the HD coverplate that is inside my Lisa does not match the ST412 in my 11/23 homebuilt ( not by me). The coverplate is, sadly, all that remains of the Lisa HD. The actual platter and heads have been trown away by the previous owner. Jos Dreesen From tomj at wps.com Wed Jan 14 14:46:40 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> <1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com> <1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <1074112588.1835.16.camel@dhcp-249027> I mean, no offense to anyone, but this is all far too complicated. First off, people get digests voluntarily -- if I had to implement a voting scheme I'd keep it on the shelf (or worse) -- fairness has nothing to with it -- yowza! tomj On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 21:06, Brian Chase wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > I dunno. It seems a little unfair to people who get the digests, etc. > > I know there's a thousand opinions about. I like the idea of picking a > > random number between 1 and 1000, and whoever gets closest without going > > over gets it. With a 3 day window, that gives everyone a fair chance to > > read the posting, respond, and have some hope. > > Hey... I like this idea a lot. > > -brian. From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Jan 14 14:38:40 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: DG 6095 disk : media sought. Message-ID: I am in need of one or two media for this diskdrive. Would become part of a DG MP/200 system. Would it be save to try without them?( the 6059 has a fixed platter beneath the cartridge ) Jos dreesen, Zurich Switzerland From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 14:42:38 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047><1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com><1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com><1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> <1074112588.1835.16.camel@dhcp-249027> Message-ID: <021001c3dade$f2d758e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Hum... I liked the random number idea. But... here's another thought... I do NOT have time to do this right now... but what about this: Hack the mailman list software so that if someone includes a special string as like the first line of the email (such as *TIME SENSITIVE* or somesuch), the list software would automatically send the email as a separate email to list members regardless of their digest settings? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jennings" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:36 PM Subject: Re: more COSMAC stuff > I mean, no offense to anyone, but this is all far too complicated. First > off, people get digests voluntarily -- if I had to implement a voting > scheme I'd keep it on the shelf (or worse) -- fairness has nothing to > with it -- yowza! > > tomj > > > > On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 21:06, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > > > I dunno. It seems a little unfair to people who get the digests, etc. > > > I know there's a thousand opinions about. I like the idea of picking a > > > random number between 1 and 1000, and whoever gets closest without going > > > over gets it. With a 3 day window, that gives everyone a fair chance to > > > read the posting, respond, and have some hope. > > > > Hey... I like this idea a lot. > > > > -brian. > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jan 14 14:43:00 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:29:26 PST." Message-ID: <200401142043.i0EKh0121789@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >You can take a look at 'vtserver', though it seems to only be for Unix (I'm no >t positive about this, as I've not looked into it much). Excellent suggestion - I especially like the first stage boot code in octal. (I'm serious actually, it means I can boot from nothing, which is what I need). ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README It looks like it will do what I want. (I have fun memories of RSTS/E but it's BSD that I want). >If you get RL02 drives, and a MicroVAX (Q-Bus) with an RLV12 controller to dri >ve the RL01/RL02 drives, there are a few tricks that you can pull to get an OS > onto the packs. Still, that might be a lot more hardware to collect. No such thing as too much... :-) besides, my Symbolics 3600 is getting lonely. thanks! -brad From tomj at wps.com Wed Jan 14 15:00:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Would you buy a used PDP-8 from this man?] Message-ID: <1074113394.1835.22.camel@dhcp-249027> (re: http://www.cathodecorner.com/sonny.jpg) Yes indeed, and I did! Man I wish I had all the junk I bought from there... -----Forwarded Message----- From: David Forbes <> To: Tom Jennings Subject: Re: Would you buy a used PDP-8 from this man? Date: 14 Jan 2004 13:37:17 -0700 Tom, This photo is scanned in from the October 1982 issue of National Geographic magazine, which I just found at the thrift store. It has an article about The Chip, and another about Silicon Valley. Humorous reading. The guy with the bowtie is Sonny Monosson of American Used Computer in Boston MA. I remember you saying that you used to go there now and then in your youth. I remember getting their ads in the late seventies, when I was using PDP-11s in high school and college. I would drool over the possibility of getting an obsolete 11 for home use, but the shipping was so expensive back then. I imagine the power bill would be something to behold also. All I remember about the Heathkit LSI-11 I used at Optical Sciences is that it was slower, instruction for instruction, than the Z-80 I also used. -- --David Forbes, Tucson, AZ http://www.cathodecorner.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 14 14:50:46 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'd like to pick the collective brains of the list and ask what emulators people know of. If you could email me at rfeldmankfainccom, listing the hardware and software emulated and what the emulator runs on, I'd appreciate it. For DEC Emulators, check out my website at http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html though there are a couple new ones such as the DEC Professional 350 emulator that aren't listed yet. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jan 14 14:52:39 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: Message-ID: <007701c3dae0$59240c50$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Feldman" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:27 PM Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers > Hello All: > > I've just started a new job (!) at a small firm that does computer > consulting for architectural firms. One project we are involved with is a > study for the Art Institute of Chicago on how best to collect the digital > design data (CAD files, 3D renderings, PowerPoint client presentations, > etc.) that architects are more and more producing. One question that has > arisen is, even if we save the raw files, how will we view them in 50 (or > even 5) years? The AIC doesn't want to collect all the systems and software > that architects use, so the suggestion to use emulators has come up. > > I'd like to pick the collective brains of the list and ask what emulators > people know of. If you could email me at rfeldmankfainccom, > listing the hardware and software emulated and what the emulator runs on, > I'd appreciate it. > > Many thanks in advance, > Bob > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with prime > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 > > Even if you can emulate the old hardware with software that same software will have to run on the computer architecture thats around in 50 years so good luck. Even today programs that convert from 1 format of cad package to anothger always have something that needs fixed. The only real backup is to do what people have been doing for 100's of years, print it to paper and store it in multiple places and then microfiche the printouts for space saving storage. I have been at engineering companies that have no idea where the cad file for a system is (the people quit and their filing system went with them), but you can find the printouts to see what they did. Paperless offices really dont exist as far as I have seen. Even if you had an emulator that viewed the file on whatever machine is available in 50 years the data itself would be almost worthless because people cant modify anything without redrawing the whole thing anyway. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 14:30:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <017501c3dad1$0a6f6b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19980102013905.008284a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.19980102101831.00838320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040114134105.0079cdb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114153030.00839bf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:03 PM 1/14/04 -0600, you wrote: >You wrote... > I'd recommend going to great lengths to find the docs that supposedly >came with the system!! You're darned tooten! Thanks for the advice. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 14:53:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <4005970D.6000608@cox.net> References: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114155343.00812340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:22 PM 1/14/04 -0700, Bryan wrote: > >- > >P.S. My wife would unload her Mac-11 on my arse if I were to even think >of putting something with mouse crap on it in her dishwasher! HER Mac-11??? Check out . That's my DAUGHTER! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 15:05:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <1074112588.1835.16.camel@dhcp-249027> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> <1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com> <1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com> <1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114160519.008117c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:36 PM 1/14/04 -0800, Tomj wrote: >I mean, no offense to anyone, but this is all far too complicated. I agree. From now on just send everything to me :-) Joe From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 14 15:11:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Looking for Interand 3000 (a.k.a. Interand CT-2) Message-ID: Ok, now I'm looking for a manual (or actual hardware) for the Interand 3000, which was sold in the Japanese market as the Interand CT-2. The full product name is the Interand 3000 Multi-Point Imaging Worksystem. It allowed full color video-conferencing over a digital or two analog phone lines and had features that enabled conference participants to create and edit documents collaboratively, draw on the screen (allowing the same image to be seen on both sides) and other nifty features. It's similar to the Telestrator that John Madden "invented" (from what I know the Telestrator was based on the Interand 3000). This is related to the Koby Electronics HS300-01 power supply that I'm trying to locate. Anyone have any clues? Are there any museums around that might have one? These are old enough and significant enough that they should qualify. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 15:20:41 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <200401142120.i0ELKfc2027013@spies.com> even if we save the raw files, how will we view them in 50 (or even 5) years? -- The short answer: You won't -- The reason will be no one will have preserved the data describing the file formats, since it is "proprietary" And you won't be able to simulate the systems, because the data needed to simulate it is proprietary also. -- Two example systems I can think of right now: Schematics or chip designs done on products by Daisy Systems (dead, dead, dead) or Mechanical and electrical CAD designs done on Calcomp electronic drafting systems based on the Xerox D-machine. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 15:22:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem Message-ID: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a system that does an "autobaud" when you hit return to log in. If I hook up a VT220, it works at 7/1/E, 8/1/N, 7/1/O, etc. etc. no problem. If I hookup a Televideo 950, hitting return gets no response at all. This is NOT a DTE vs. DCE problem, because the televideo does work with the same system on a different type of serial port. I was thinking something might be brain damaged with parity generation/checking on this terminal. Is this a known issue of TV950's? About the only way I can find out whats going on is to dig out my datascope and see the start data & stop bits between the two when hitting return and see what is different. Any thoughts? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Jan 14 15:32:38 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Hawley Mouse? References: Message-ID: <00f601c3dae5$ef441bd0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Anyone have a non-DEC'd version of a Hawley mouse for sale/trade? Curt From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 14 15:32:52 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401142120.i0ELKfc2027013@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114152905.0395fd58@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 01:20 PM 1/14/2004 -0800, you wrote: >even if we save the raw files, how will we view them in 50 (or >even 5) years? > >-- > >The short answer: > >You won't > >-- > >The reason will be no one will have preserved the data describing >the file formats, since it is "proprietary" > >And you won't be able to simulate the systems, because the data >needed to simulate it is proprietary also. > >-- > >Two example systems I can think of right now: > >Schematics or chip designs done on products by Daisy Systems (dead, dead, >dead) >or >Mechanical and electrical CAD designs done on Calcomp electronic drafting >systems >based on the Xerox D-machine. To further this depressing story, even if you were to save a room full of old computers to run the actual software on, in time they would break down and the integrated circuits inside would be no longer available for repair, assuming that you were able to secure copies of the proprietary hardware manuals that would be needed to maintain the systems... --tom From patrick at evocative.com Wed Jan 14 15:34:14 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: H89 lives - but for how long? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040114090215.007bfae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >[Jack Rubin:] > >Here's my question - after the machine was running for a minute or so, > >the screen got very bright - the "black" background became green and the > >screen characters were so over-driven that they became "fuzzy". The > >brightness control worked (i.e. changed brightness levels) but the > >available range only went from "too bright" to "really too bright". > >After another minute or so, the brightness level gradually subsided back > >to normal and everything seemed ok for the next 20 minutes of operation. > >What caused the "glow" and what incipient failure does it suggest? > > > > [Joe:] > I've never worked on a H-89 but it sounds like the power supply that's > supplying power to the video display is losing it's regulation. Check the > 12 VDC or whatever supplies power to the video display. I'm sure that > you'll find that it's voltage is increasing at the same time that the > screen blooms. That's consistent with the troubleshooting guide. The supply voltages are 6 and 53 (regulated) for the video board IIRC, and easy enough to measure if your fingers aren't too fat--it's tight in there. The assembly manual shows the test points for power on and power off tests. But caveat, Jack: the assembly manual I gave you is non-RFI, so those measurements may not apply and/or test points moved. Interesting that it corrected itself, and I'm wondering if it has happened again since? --Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 14 15:40:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Robert Feldman wrote: > I've just started a new job (!) at a small firm that does computer > consulting for architectural firms. One project we are involved with is a > study for the Art Institute of Chicago on how best to collect the digital > design data (CAD files, 3D renderings, PowerPoint client presentations, > etc.) that architects are more and more producing. One question that has > arisen is, even if we save the raw files, how will we view them in 50 (or > even 5) years? The AIC doesn't want to collect all the systems and software > that architects use, so the suggestion to use emulators has come up. I would do this: 1) Gather all the relevant data files into one place 2) Find whatever technical data you can on the formats of the data files 3) Gather up all the applications used to create the various files and their documentation 4) Gather up all the operating systems that those applications run on 5) Burn this all to DVD ROM Keep this all on a "live" archive (i.e. a hard drive) and DVD ROM and update the medium (migrate the "live" archive to a new hard drive and re-burn the DVD ROMs or upgrade to the latest and greatest archival medium of the day) every 2-3 years. > I'd like to pick the collective brains of the list and ask what emulators > people know of. If you could email me at rfeldmankfainccom, > listing the hardware and software emulated and what the emulator runs on, > I'd appreciate it. Emulators for what? PeeCees? I don't think there are PC emulators yet, except on other platforms (like the Mac) for compatibility purposes. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Jan 14 15:33:48 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200401142141.QAA23067@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I have a system that does an "autobaud" when you hit return to log > in. If I hook up a VT220, it works at 7/1/E, 8/1/N, 7/1/O, etc. etc. > no problem. That's not what I, at least, understand autobaud to mean - that's just parity autosensing. (Autobaud, AIUI, is autosensing the speed.) > If I hookup a Televideo 950, hitting return gets no response at all. > This is NOT a DTE vs. DCE problem, because the televideo does work > with the same system on a different type of serial port. ...on which the VT220 also works? My guess would be that it's got nothing to do with what's on the data pins, but rather is because one end thinks some kind of hardware flow control is active and isn't seeing the signals saying "go ahead and send". > I was thinking something might be brain damaged with parity > generation/checking on this terminal. Is this a known issue of > TV950's? I used to use tvi950s heavily, and while it was a long time ago, I don't recall anything of the sort. Did you set the TVI to ignore the incoming parity bits? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From patrick at evocative.com Wed Jan 14 15:41:30 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > I was thinking something might be brain damaged with parity > generation/checking on this terminal. Is this a known issue of TV950's? > About the only way I can find out whats going on is to dig out my > datascope > and see the start data & stop bits between the two when hitting return and > see what is different. Jay, how about the handshaking configuration? --Patrick From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 15:44:01 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem References: Message-ID: <028201c3dae7$85ff2fa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> sorry, should have specified that.... I was using a breakout box with all pins disabled except 2, 3, & 7. So no, hardware handshaking isn't an issue. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Rigney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:41 PM Subject: RE: oddball televideo problem > > I was thinking something might be brain damaged with parity > > generation/checking on this terminal. Is this a known issue of TV950's? > > About the only way I can find out whats going on is to dig out my > > datascope > > and see the start data & stop bits between the two when hitting return and > > see what is different. > > Jay, how about the handshaking configuration? --Patrick > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 14 15:44:31 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem Message-ID: <200401142144.NAA13081@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Most of these like to use better letters such as the letter B. Try setting things to the slowest baud on the terminal and then you can watch realtime on a scope( like 110 ). Get one of those light boxes. You still might be missing one of the handshake lines that one machine needs that the other doesn't. Get the box with the switches and jumpers. These are in the $20 to $25 range and worth every penny. Dwight > >I have a system that does an "autobaud" when you hit return to log in. If I >hook up a VT220, it works at 7/1/E, 8/1/N, 7/1/O, etc. etc. no problem. If I >hookup a Televideo 950, hitting return gets no response at all. This is NOT >a DTE vs. DCE problem, because the televideo does work with the same system >on a different type of serial port. > >I was thinking something might be brain damaged with parity >generation/checking on this terminal. Is this a known issue of TV950's? >About the only way I can find out whats going on is to dig out my datascope >and see the start data & stop bits between the two when hitting return and >see what is different. > >Any thoughts? > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 15:52:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: AMC Multibus cards? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114165225.00831600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have any information on ANY Multibus cards made by Advanced Micro Computer? I've been told that AMC is a division of AMD. And AMC's logo looks the same as AMD's. I have seveal DRAM cards, a FD controller and a few other cards made by them and I'd like to do something with them. Joe From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 15:59:50 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: AMC Multibus cards? Message-ID: <200401142159.i0ELxomI001040@spies.com> Does anyone have any information on ANY Multibus cards made by Advanced Micro Computer? -- yes send along the part numbers (probably four digits starting with 9xxx or 4xxx) and i'll put them up on bitsavers. From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 16:05:27 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? Message-ID: <200401142205.i0EM5RYS001736@spies.com> 7900's used a two card interface. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/21xx/interfaces/13210-90003_Oct74_7900intf.pdf From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jan 14 16:05:48 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c3daea$90c5f240$4d4d2c0a@atx> > The AIC doesn't want to collect all the systems > and software > that architects use, so the suggestion to use emulators has come up. > One catch with emulators is that much of the relevant software is heavily copy-protected via dongles which might make emulation problematic. Andy From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 14 16:11:00 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: Claude Ceccon "Re: Mouse doody" (Jan 14, 10:29) References: <200401141415.i0EEF7iS087392@huey.classiccmp.org> <40A1C035-46B7-11D8-B2E9-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Message-ID: <10401142210.ZM3861@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 14, 10:29, Claude Ceccon wrote: > Some comments on cleaning electronics which have been despoiled by > biorchid rodents and other sources: [lots of good stuff that I wholeheartedly agree with] Except: > If you use soap do not use one that is extremely caustic - you can > remove things that you want like the copper runs. Copper does not dissolve in any common alkalis. Strong detergents (some dishwasher detergents and some industrial detergents) however may damage other things. Don't ask me why I had to re-polish the magenta handles on a couple of DEC boards. > Distilled water can be used in a pinch, > but be aware that the stuff is corrosive. That's news to me, and every chemist I know :-) If you don't have deionised or distilled water handy (the contents of your dehumidifier are pretty good), or your local tap water is reasonably soft, do the final rinse with a tiny amount of a wetting agent (common liquid detergent will do but laboratory detergent is better because it doesn't contain dyes, thickeners, or perfume). Then blow off as much as possible with *low* pressure air, or wave the board around to shake off the excess, and let it drain. That's the equivalent to what photo labs do, and I can assure you that photographic emulsion is far more susceptible to water damage than electronics. The only thing I'd add is that before you start washing, it's worth protecting or removing any labels -- especially paper labels -- that might be damaged. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jan 14 16:21:01 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: Message-ID: <00f101c3daec$b1a678c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Robert Feldman wrote: > > > I've just started a new job (!) at a small firm that does computer > > consulting for architectural firms. One project we are involved with is a > > study for the Art Institute of Chicago on how best to collect the digital > > design data (CAD files, 3D renderings, PowerPoint client presentations, > > etc.) that architects are more and more producing. One question that has > > arisen is, even if we save the raw files, how will we view them in 50 (or > > even 5) years? The AIC doesn't want to collect all the systems and software > > that architects use, so the suggestion to use emulators has come up. > > I would do this: > > 1) Gather all the relevant data files into one place > 2) Find whatever technical data you can on the formats of the data files > 3) Gather up all the applications used to create the various files and > their documentation > 4) Gather up all the operating systems that those applications run on > 5) Burn this all to DVD ROM > > Keep this all on a "live" archive (i.e. a hard drive) and DVD ROM and > update the medium (migrate the "live" archive to a new hard drive and > re-burn the DVD ROMs or upgrade to the latest and greatest archival medium > of the day) every 2-3 years. > > > I'd like to pick the collective brains of the list and ask what emulators > > people know of. If you could email me at rfeldmankfainccom, > > listing the hardware and software emulated and what the emulator runs on, > > I'd appreciate it. > > Emulators for what? PeeCees? I don't think there are PC emulators yet, > except on other platforms (like the Mac) for compatibility purposes. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > You forgot to mention to burn a cracked warez copy of every program so you can run them at a later date without the dongle that connects to ports that no longer exist ( parrallel ports will be extinct in 10 years just like serial ports and ISA slots are rare these days). From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 14 16:31:30 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <40A1C035-46B7-11D8-B2E9-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Claude Ceccon wrote: > Some comments on cleaning electronics which have been despoiled by > biorchid rodents and other sources: > > Loose stuff should be removed by dusting, vacuuming or blowing off the > offending offal. However, in low humidity locations be aware that you > can build up fairly large static charges can be generated by vacuum > cleaners / air jets. I normally place boards on conductive mats and > ground the nozzle to the mat, or in the case of cabinets, the cabinet. > > The remaining junk to be removed is either water soluble or not. If > water soluble, water is the best means of cleaning. If insoluble, then > a suitable surfactant added to water will remove oils, etc. That leaves > the nasty stuff that requires a solvent. Isopropyl alcohol is a good > starting choice - anything stronger is likely to dissolve wanted items. > > If you use soap do not use one that is extremely caustic - you can > remove things that you want like the copper runs. Hand dishwashing > soaps are generally safe. > > However, the last step in any cleaning process should be a rinse with > ** de-ionized ** water and a thorough drying. This will remove any > conductive remnants that remain. I generally air dry my stuff over > night (Arizona, but recommend 6 months for Florida). If you are in a > hurry, a hair dryer or and oven at 140F/60C will hasten things ( using > heat guns and warmer ovens runs the risk of doing in capacitors and > removing surface mount items). Distilled water can be used in a pinch, > but be aware that the stuff is corrosive. This last step is especially What could possibly be in pure H2O (distilled) that would be corrosive? Also, how could it not be in de-ionized water? - don > important if you have CMOS or analog circuits involved. The military > uses pure alcohol as a final step to remove any remaining water. > However, the stuff they use is far less volatile than isopropyl and > does not contain any water. > > Of late I have been playing with a daily shower cleaner (USA->TILEX > Fresh Shower). The stuff has isopropanol, a great surfactant, and a > chelating agent. The latter ingredient will take off those insoluble > minerals that remain. Seems to work well. If you go this route, ensure > that you read the label - there are shower cleaners that have acid in > them and will definitely take everything off the board... Still do the > de-ionized rinse afterwards. > > A couple of precautions: dip switches should be sealed with tape to > limit wetting. I generally drop some switch lubricant/cleaner in each > and exercise the switch subsequent to cleaning. Unplug and remove > relays, if possible. Switches, relays, connectors, and edge connectors > should get a treatment with a suitable lubricant/preservative. > > Lastly, you should do all the above in the undisturbed privacy of your > home. A number of years ago, a friend's salt sculpture atop his TV > broke filling the set with the super-saturated salt solution. I told > him to take the set out back, remove the back, and hose it out. A nosy > neighbor asked what he was doing and he said that he was watering the > set to make it grow bigger. He related the line to the sheriff that > subsequently showed up. I then spent the afternoon convincing the > psychologist that hosing down a TV was a rational act... > > Claude Ceccon > > From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 14 16:42:08 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: Message-ID: <00f001c3daef$a4c33000$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Emulators for what? PeeCees? CAD was done on Minis before 1985, and on Mainframes (egad) before 1975. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 16:44:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: H89 lives - but for how long? In-Reply-To: <000801c3daa1$8705cd00$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> from "Jack Rubin" at Jan 14, 4 07:22:57 am Message-ID: > Here's my question - after the machine was running for a minute or so, > the screen got very bright - the "black" background became green and the > screen characters were so over-driven that they became "fuzzy". The > brightness control worked (i.e. changed brightness levels) but the > available range only went from "too bright" to "really too bright". > After another minute or so, the brightness level gradually subsided back > to normal and everything seemed ok for the next 20 minutes of operation. > What caused the "glow" and what incipient failure does it suggest? Sounds like either you've got too low a voltage on the CRT cathode, or too high a voltage on the first anode (I don't suspect the EHT, fortunately, because that would make the picture change size). What I would do at this point (I assume you have the schematics that came with the machine) is measure the CRT base pin voltages (none is higher than 1kV, so you can use a normal multimeter with care). Then, if the fault comes back, quickly measure them again, and see what's changed. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 16:48:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: 9825B In-Reply-To: <20040114145950.24563.qmail@sylvester.faho.rwth-aachen.de> from "Phong Hoang" at Jan 14, 4 03:59:50 pm Message-ID: > > Hi Tony, > i read an email of you in internet about HB 9825B. > I would like to know if the CPU of HP 9825 works with little endian or big I don't know, but I can probably find out... I have the ROM source listings somewhere... > endian format. Do you have any information for me about this old computer ? All the user manuals, the schematics, and the ROM sources I think... > I'm trying to write a small testprogram (windows 2000 / VC++ 6.0) for > directing the HP analyzer 4145A. Its manual has a sample program for this > computer 9825B. Err, hang on. What's this 9825 program written in? HPL (looks a bit like BASIC)? If so, you don't need to know if it's big or little endian. HPL didn't allow access to memory directly. What problem are you having? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 16:53:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <00b201c3dab7$e3f41380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Jan 14, 4 10:03:03 am Message-ID: > 13) It's ok to run the drive with covers off for short periods. Leave the > top cover off and put in the media and power up. Hit the load switch. The > heads will load in 25 seconds. Count till about 23 seconds, or, when the > heads start to extend, and hit the unload switch immediately. Repeat this > process several times. What you're trying to do is, when you hit the load > switch the blowers come on, thus expelling any particles from the fixed > drive chamber and the media cartridge. Doing this a few times gives a good > blowout before you actually try to let the heads fly. Isn't there some way to disable the positioner drive (either by pulling a plug, pulling a PCB, or an internal switch)? The RK05 has a switch on the servo power amplifier for this, for example. If you can disable the positioner (and if the drive logic doesn't care!), you can then run the blower for half an hour or so without the heads trying to load. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 16:30:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 : dead power supply ? In-Reply-To: from "Derek J Mott" at Jan 13, 4 10:08:50 pm Message-ID: > > T > > I have heard there is a trick with mg-1 power supplies not working ... There's a trick if the machine won't power up at all... The power switch on the MG1 is software-controlled (!), and it runs off 5 AA NiCd cells on the power distribution board (these also keep the RTC running). They're charged when the machine is running, but of course if you leave it powered-down for too long, they go flat, and you can't turn it on agaain. The way round this is to connect a 9V battery (a PP3 or similar) to 2 of the pins of one of the connectors on the power distribution board (I can get the exact details). The machine will then power up, and you leave it running until the NiCds are charged A kludge, sure, but it's better than the Torch XXX where the official procedure is to replace the PSU assembly if the battery goes flat (!). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 17:08:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114152905.0395fd58@mail.ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jan 14, 4 03:32:52 pm Message-ID: > To further this depressing story, even if you were to save a room full of > old computers to run the actual software on, in time they would break down > and the integrated circuits inside would be no longer available for repair, > assuming that you were able to secure copies of the proprietary hardware > manuals that would be needed to maintain the systems... Presumably if you have the full schemaitcs and the data sheets on all the chips (let's hope they're nice simple TTL chips :-)) then it would be possible to emulate said chips using whatever technology is around in 50 years time (OK, using a 1 million gate FPGA to replace a 7400 is overkill, but it would work :-)). I intend keeping my PERQs and PDPs running for as long as possible by doing things like that (and yes, I have schematics, I have databooks. All on _paper_) -tony From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 14 17:20:41 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: MFM Controller queries In-Reply-To: <200401141043260497.03C3F06E@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Bruce Lane wrote: > Hi, gang, > > I have an Atlantic Research 7000 series datascope that is > dependent on an MFM drive to run itself. It works fine at the > moment (testament to the durability of early drives, I suppose), > but I would like to be able to take an image snapshot of its > hard drive in case of failure. > > With that in mind, I'm starting to accumulate a small variety > of MFM controllers (going for variety because I have no idea > what the determining factor is going to be in which controller > is able to read the drive). Bruce, the determining factor is the controller that formatted/wrote to the drive in the first place. With MFM - or more accurately, ST506/412 - it is not common to have a drive readable by a `foreign' controller. In the case of WD controllers the later series utilized what was called their "SuperBIOS" IIRC, and any of the controllers could read any other SuperBIOS controller's output. Caveat that with differences between MFM and RLL. The best approach would be to determine the controller that is in the Datascope. - don > So far, I've found a WD1002-WA2 and a WD1003-WA2. I still have > memories of the last and (supposedly) best MFM board that WD > made, in the form of the WD1006V-MM2, but I've had no luck > finding one as yet (nor do I know if I really even need one). > > Suggestions for what to go after would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks much. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 17:31:44 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <200401142331.i0ENVi9Z016317@spies.com> OK, using a 1 million gate FPGA to replace a 7400 is overkill, but it would work -- Not if the FPGA isn't 5v tolerant. It isn't very likely that a device produced in five years will be useful as a replacement for 7400 series logic, much less in 50. We've left the days of logic level compatibility behind us unfortunately. 3.3v logic is even disappearing pretty quickly now, and that didn't last a decade. From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Jan 14 17:31:53 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Mouse doody In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040114155343.00812340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> <40043C69.10003@theriver.com> <3.0.6.32.20040114155343.00812340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4005D169.9090307@cox.net> Nice pic! My wife got hers as a mothers day gift from me about ten years ago. She always says it is her favorite. :) -Bryan Joe R. wrote: > At 12:22 PM 1/14/04 -0700, Bryan wrote: > >>- >> >>P.S. My wife would unload her Mac-11 on my arse if I were to even think >>of putting something with mouse crap on it in her dishwasher! > > > HER Mac-11??? Check out . That's > my DAUGHTER! > > Joe > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 14 17:46:24 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401142331.i0ENVi9Z016317@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114174058.03aa53b0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:31 PM 1/14/2004 -0800, you wrote: >OK, using a 1 million gate FPGA to replace a 7400 is >overkill, but it would work > >-- > >Not if the FPGA isn't 5v tolerant. > >It isn't very likely that a device produced in five years >will be useful as a replacement for 7400 series logic, much >less in 50. > >We've left the days of logic level compatibility behind us >unfortunately. 3.3v logic is even disappearing pretty quickly >now, and that didn't last a decade. I am having problems getting enough information to make my Emulex SC70 masbus disk controller work. If I have to repair it, I'm will be in serious trouble. I doubt that I will be able to locate a schematic given that I am having so much difficulty locating just a manual. The SC70 uses a 16bit 290x bitslice processor, so after those parts are no longer available, even though it would trivially fit into a small FPGA of the time, and even if the logic levels are compatible, reprogramming an FPGA to do what the 290x does will not be a trivial task. Just imagine trying to repair all of the proprietary components in a PC or even the CAD program dongle 50 years from now. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 17:51:05 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? References: Message-ID: <003101c3daf9$4611a820$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Isn't there some way to disable the positioner drive (either by pulling a > plug, pulling a PCB, or an internal switch)? The RK05 has a switch on the > servo power amplifier for this, for example. > > If you can disable the positioner (and if the drive logic doesn't care!), > you can then run the blower for half an hour or so without the heads > trying to load. There is definitely a way to do this. I forgot what it is! I seem to recall it's a molex connector you just leave open. I'll have to look at my 7900 later. Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 17:47:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - in it's final form - alive!! Message-ID: <001301c3daf8$c9262250$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Well, the HP2K system restoration is done (except for the rails for the paper tape punch, but those aren't visible, it's temporarily mounted anyways). I've been through several sysgens and all is perfect. Even typed in a program I had a listing for that I wrote in high school that creates word search puzzles :) For those wondering, yes, I can confirm, 7906 drives (non H models) work wonderfully, you just don't get to use head 3 (at least for variants of TSB that support 7905's - variants that support 7900 or older (E) of course will not work with 7906's). I ran into a problem with the 7970, turned out to be a tape reel lockdown mechanism was faulty and the reel was slipping during use. That's fixed too. I am suprised how much heat the system generates! Now I'm looking for HIB tapes to get a respectable system library. I also ordered a wireless card for my PC downstairs, so I will be putting 2000/Access online via telnet for just a little while. Many people requested dialup access, but I think telnet will be easier. I want to give an extra special thanks to many people who have helped me along the way - Craig and Larry at Crisis Computer (call them for HP parts, great guys!), Al Kossow, Eric Smith, Jeff Moffatt, Bob Shannon, Stan Seiler, Frank McConnell, Bill McDermith, and... everyone on the classiccmp list for years of help and advice on various issues. What's next? Hummm restoring an HP 2610A printer? Or my 11/45? Or upgrading my 8E to use RK05? Or maybe finally getting back to hpemu? We'll see! Thanks very much folks! Jay West PS - Al, my MCP tapes are fine. It was the tape reel slipping that made me think it was bad! From peter.matthewson at tiscali.co.uk Wed Jan 14 15:32:14 2004 From: peter.matthewson at tiscali.co.uk (Peter Matthewson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: FW: 77/68 Message-ID: <000a01c3dae5$e0bfad90$b900a8c0@BreakfastRoom> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Matthewson [mailto:peter.matthewson@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: 14 January 2004 21:27 To: 'andyh@andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk' Subject: 77/68 Andy, Just saw your note on 77/68 from the classic computing mailing list. This made me smile; I can only see about 2 references to it that I can find anywhere on the web. My acquaintance with the 77/68 began when it featured in volume 1 edition 1 of Personal Computer World that I chanced upon in WH Smith in Dewsbury, I think this was round about December 1977. I am not entirely sure it was the UKs first home PC because I recall reading about a 4040 based system described in Wireless World which must have been a year or so earlier. I was so captivated by all this I withdrew all my savings bought the bits and built one, for ?60. The 6800 microprocessor cost ?14 I recall. I managed to get it working, I am not quite sure since I was a 15 year old schoolkid with only a multimeter for test equipment, working in isolation and did not really know what it was that I was building. The main problem I had was with wiring the edge connector, the data bus was in one bit order on the edge connector and the address bus in the reverse bit order, a detail I didn?t understand the significance of initially. It was about 2 years before I met anyone who had any idea what I was talking about. I extended the system with 1024 bytes of ram, built a keyboard and cannibalised an old calculator display for peripherals. And I built a 32 bits per second tone burst modem for storage of programmes on cassette tapes. The monitor program I wrote to drive all this took 256 bytes of memory. Those were the days - he said wistfully. Its still up in the loft. I almost feel inspired to get it out and fire it up again! Regards Peter Matthewson From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed Jan 14 18:12:59 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:26 2005 Subject: E11 and RT11v2 References: Message-ID: <4005DB0B.D115D5E8@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I was trying to organize some E11 stuff, spread over several computers, > >and could not gey my rk05/RT11v2B to boot. Jerome Fine replies: I answered Nick Oliviero privately since I did not think that anyone else might be interested. While I have everything on one computer now, there is quite a lot! I am attempting to copy as many different RT-11 distributions to a CD as I can find. I did boot on RK05 under E11: V02C-02 20-Nov-1975 both SJ and FB V03B-00 date not reliable both SJ and FB I doubt that E11 could boot both of the above versions and not be able to boot V02B. > >Some years back when I first loaded these images, I > >thought these had booted for me, but maybe my memory is > >playing tricks on me. Anyone ever succeeded in > >booting v2B under E11? > I'm pretty sure I've booted V2C off of an RP02 using E11, for one thing I don't think that simh supports RP02's or at least at that time it didn't. I can't check, as I don't have a system that can run E11 at the moment (I really do need to find time to get a small x86 Linux box up and running for E11, simh, and KLH10). The V20C that I just tested was acquired in Montreal about 2 years ago. I acquired a number of RK05 media along with an RK05 drive. A year later I was able to borrow an RK05 controller and copy the media to a Sony SMO S-501 media. I am attempting to make up a "pristine" RK05 distribution for V02C, but I have doubts I will be able to do so. Can anyone else help. I probably have all or at least most of the files, but the order is in question. I also have V03B as well from an RK05, BUT the media had a lot of bad blocks, so probably many files are bad. In addition, I am confident that I have a V4.00C image on an RK05, but it is not yet "pristine". In particular, the Volume ID / Owner may be incorrect, and the order of the files could be different. Plus there could be other aspects that do not match, but I am confident it is close enough at this point unless someone else has a copy that I could compare with? In general, does anyone have any RT-11 distributions for V1x, V2x, V3x and V4x that can be checked against other copies? I prefer RK05, but they seem very difficult to fine, so any media would be gratefully appreciated! > I think it was simh that I used for booting RT-11 V1. I think I also have that image as well. Do you know what device is used? I will try with an RX01 first. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 14 18:26:45 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: E11 and RT11v2 In-Reply-To: <4005DB0B.D115D5E8@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Jan 14, 2004 07:12:59 PM Message-ID: <200401150026.i0F0Qkmc028642@onyx.spiritone.com> > In general, does anyone have any RT-11 > distributions for V1x, V2x, V3x and V4x > that can be checked against other copies? > I prefer RK05, but they seem very difficult > to fine, so any media would be gratefully > appreciated! Also, if anyone has any layered products that they can provide for this project they would be of help (Jerome, are you putting Layered products on the CD you're building?) as it's important to get them archived as well. > > I think it was simh that I used for booting RT-11 V1. > > I think I also have that image as well. Do you know > what device is used? I will try with an RX01 first. You've got the image. IIRC, it's DECtape (in fact I think it's a .dt file). The computer the file is down at the moment so I can't doublecheck. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 18:27:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401142331.i0ENVi9Z016317@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Jan 14, 4 03:31:44 pm Message-ID: > > > OK, using a 1 million gate FPGA to replace a 7400 is > overkill, but it would work > > -- > > Not if the FPGA isn't 5v tolerant. I am quie sure the problem of level-shifting between TTL levels and whatever's common in 50 years time will be solved by then :-). 50-year-on parts will be so much faster than good old TTL that the extra delay caused by the level shifters won't be a problem either. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 18:37:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114174058.03aa53b0@mail.ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jan 14, 4 05:46:24 pm Message-ID: > I am having problems getting enough information to make my Emulex > SC70 masbus disk controller work. If I have to repair it, I'm will > be in serious trouble. I doubt that I will be able to locate a > schematic given that I am having so much difficulty locating just If it uses standard chips (i.e. data sheets exist), then it can be reverse-engineered! > a manual. The SC70 uses a 16bit 290x bitslice processor, so after > those parts are no longer available, even though it would trivially > fit into a small FPGA of the time, and even if the logic levels are > compatible, reprogramming an FPGA to do what the 290x does will not > be a trivial task. OK, the 290x chips are not simple, but data sheets exist, so it should be possible to make an FPGA do the same thing. > > Just imagine trying to repair all of the proprietary components > in a PC or even the CAD program dongle 50 years from now. I knew there was a reason why I stuck to classic computers ;-) -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 14 18:55:53 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 : dead power supply ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074127535.31081.99.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 22:30, Tony Duell wrote: > A kludge, sure, but it's better than the Torch XXX where the official > procedure is to replace the PSU assembly if the battery goes flat (!). Indeed. I happen to have the XXX service manual on the desk at the moment (for once something is to hand and not buried!) The offical procedure was to check the battery voltage and if under, bypass the PSU to charge the battery. *Then* if it was still dead, swap out the PSU. So not quite as bad as just swapping the lot on a flat battery, but almost! (From the service manual it looks like that quirky touch-switch was expected to fail too...) cheers Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 14 19:03:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 : dead power supply ? In-Reply-To: <1074127535.31081.99.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jan 15, 4 00:45:36 am Message-ID: > > On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 22:30, Tony Duell wrote: > > A kludge, sure, but it's better than the Torch XXX where the official > > procedure is to replace the PSU assembly if the battery goes flat (!). > > Indeed. I happen to have the XXX service manual on the desk at the > moment (for once something is to hand and not buried!) > > The offical procedure was to check the battery voltage and if under, > bypass the PSU to charge the battery. *Then* if it was still dead, swap > out the PSU. Not according to the totally lusing service manual that came with my XXX (it has a glossary which includes : IC : Integrated Circuit. One of those black things on legs on a circuit board [1] ICs : More than 1 IC [1] The fact that the XXX contains ceramic-packaged ICs (not black) and PLCC packages (not on legs) has escaped the notice of this idiot... (footnote by ARD, not in the manual).) How are you supposed to 'bypass the PSU'? The normal trick of swapping over the mains in and out connectors on the PSU board is lethal, since it means the input to the SMPSU is no longer fused! If the chopper decides to fail at that point... -tony From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 14 19:15:51 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Field trip :) Message-ID: Hi folks, Just thought I'd report in after an excellent couple of days on the vintage trail! Yesterday gave me a genuine MicroVAX I with a fully stuffed backplane I haven't investigated yet, though there's definitely the 2-card CPU, memory, RQDX disk controller (for the RD52) installed and a 4-line serial option which will probably be a DHV11. I'll find out tomorrow. The system came with a Tektronix 4019 colour display which is the biggest monitor (physically) I've ever laid eyes on I think, complete with keyboard and drawing tablet. Not sure what I'm going to do with it as yet - it's got to be a 19" screen! Apparently the RD52 has some sort of CAD package installed so I'll find out hopefully once the machine's stabilised itself to the house temperature. Also in the bundle was a boxful of Tangerine Microtan 65 bits including the machine itself (with TANEX expansion) in a lovely home-made wooden box, what looks suspiciously like an Apple ][ keyboard, full documentation and the first 30 or so issues of the Tangerine User Group magazine. More on that later. There's a handful of DEC cards too: M7944 x2 - 4K RAM M7680/M7681 - RK05 control cards M7258 - LP11 driver M7860 - DR11 driver as well as a 4-slot self-contained backplane containing: M7270 - KD11-HA LSI 11/2 CPU M7944 x2 - 4K RAM M8027 - LPV11 driver. Also several copies of the MicroVAX II diagnostic kit on RX50 and RX33 floppies as well as (I think) most of VMS V5 on RX50. I don't think there's enough disks for it to be a complete set :-/ Today brought a couple of visits, one to see Nick Toop who some of you may know was involved with many early UK home computing projects including the Science of Cambridge MK14 (supporting hardware), Acorn Atom (designer) and the should-have-been-venerable Enterprise 64 (graphics chip and supporting hardware). Lovely bloke - he sorted out my 'suspect' Atom and brought it back to life! Excellent. Second visit was to help Kevan Heydon of this 'ere list empty some of his garage with Jules Richardson, so new museum additions are a cased Ohio Superboard II (with docs), Memotech RS128 with FDX floppy subsystem (yay!), boxed NeXT Station (double yay!), 2nd Microtan 65 with extended backplane and more cards, and a CST Thor - Sinclair QL that's been massively expanded and recased. Thanks Kevan :) Faaaaaaantastic! Now where is it all going to go.... -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 14 19:17:03 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <200401150117.RAA13356@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> I am having problems getting enough information to make my Emulex >> SC70 masbus disk controller work. If I have to repair it, I'm will >> be in serious trouble. I doubt that I will be able to locate a >> schematic given that I am having so much difficulty locating just > >If it uses standard chips (i.e. data sheets exist), then it can be >reverse-engineered! > >> a manual. The SC70 uses a 16bit 290x bitslice processor, so after >> those parts are no longer available, even though it would trivially >> fit into a small FPGA of the time, and even if the logic levels are >> compatible, reprogramming an FPGA to do what the 290x does will not >> be a trivial task. > >OK, the 290x chips are not simple, but data sheets exist, so it should be >possible to make an FPGA do the same thing. Oh come now, the 290X parts are not that complicated. The 2901 is just an ALU. I don't think there is anything in this series, including the 2916 that can't be easily implemented in todays technology. In fact, I'm sure you can even buy off the shelf models for these. I've seen things like 8051's and 6800's for those that need that fuction in a fpga. Dwight > >> >> Just imagine trying to repair all of the proprietary components >> in a PC or even the CAD program dongle 50 years from now. > >I knew there was a reason why I stuck to classic computers ;-) > >-tony > From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 19:20:08 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <200401150120.i0F1K8ut001059@spies.com> I doubt that I will be able to locate a schematic given that I am having so much difficulty locating just a manual. -- Emulex sold the rights for their disc product line to a company in Guardian Computer www.guardian-computer.com From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 19:23:28 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <200401150123.i0F1NShx001456@spies.com> >If it uses standard chips (i.e. data sheets exist), then it can be >reverse-engineered! Not if the uCode proms have rotted. From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Jan 14 19:31:35 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? References: <003101c3daf9$4611a820$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <4005ED77.BF3124EA@msm.umr.edu> if the 7900's run like the dynex 6000's and microdata 9000's then there is a closed loop servo system that does a load command and sets the servo to stop when the load position is hit on the reticule. When one seeks, there is a difference sent to the servo, either + or - in track number, and the servo is allowed to slew until the number of tracks pass thru the reticule. If you unplug the servo coil, then the above drives are perfectly happy to let the potential set on the open connecter (molex also in above). and wait for the load ramp. We could load the heads manually, and move them around to do alignment tests as well. It was really nerve racking to load the heads and unload them though, as you really didn't want to pause at the load and unload point or the heads would make really bad noises. Jim Jay West wrote: > > Isn't there some way to disable the positioner drive (either by pulling a > > plug, pulling a PCB, or an internal switch)? The RK05 has a switch on the > > servo power amplifier for this, for example. > > > > If you can disable the positioner (and if the drive logic doesn't care!), > > you can then run the blower for half an hour or so without the heads > > trying to load. > > There is definitely a way to do this. I forgot what it is! I seem to recall > it's a molex connector you just leave open. I'll have to look at my 7900 > later. > > Jay From tomj at wps.com Wed Jan 14 19:44:45 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401142120.i0ELKfc2027013@spies.com> References: <200401142120.i0ELKfc2027013@spies.com> Message-ID: <1074130477.1836.45.camel@dhcp-249027> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 13:20, Al Kossow wrote: > even if we save the raw files, how will we view them in 50 (or > even 5) years? > > -- > > The short answer: > > You won't eggzactly. It's probably not a cooincidence that the only examples of my personal programming work that still exist from the 1970's are two or three printouts in a 3-ring binder. Fiche is not glamourous, but very robust and in no way a dead medium. I'm far from expert, but it appears to be oriented towards small media sizes, but I know there are things like aperture cards for C & D sized drawings etc. It's really a cultural failing, besides the general and obvious obliviousness to history (which nuts like us know about intimately) but the technocratic NEW GOOD, OLD BAD tends to induce the view that things like microfiche are old, and therefore automatically obsolete. It's the only 500-year media we have, besides paper (but let's not get into a 'what's media' discussion). I have a (sleeping) art project involving fiche. If you search around, you'll find that there are places that will produce fiche for you for pretty cheap. Basically you send them file(s) and they output on a device that emulates a printer (I guess). THere are problems with character mappings etc at the place I talked to that was cheapest. I'm sure this is solvable. tomj From tomj at wps.com Wed Jan 14 19:46:43 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1074130596.1839.48.camel@dhcp-249027> You might try other keyboard characters. Basically 'autobauding' guesses bit rate by looking at the garbage in the UART Rx buffer (and sometimes status flags). But incorrect parity since it's on the "far" end of the character (I think) might trump all character patterns and look the same to the autobaid code. On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 13:22, Jay West wrote: > I have a system that does an "autobaud" when you hit return to log in. If I > hook up a VT220, it works at 7/1/E, 8/1/N, 7/1/O, etc. etc. no problem. If I > hookup a Televideo 950, hitting return gets no response at all. This is NOT > a DTE vs. DCE problem, because the televideo does work with the same system > on a different type of serial port. > > I was thinking something might be brain damaged with parity > generation/checking on this terminal. Is this a known issue of TV950's? > About the only way I can find out whats going on is to dig out my datascope > and see the start data & stop bits between the two when hitting return and > see what is different. > > Any thoughts? > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 14 19:43:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Canadians? Message-ID: Hi all, Although my friends in South Park would hate me for sending this out... I need some help from someone in Canada, to buy something thats only available there, and not in the U.S. or Europe.. Pse contact me offlist if you can help.. Thx, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 14 19:41:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: AMC Multibus cards? In-Reply-To: <200401142159.i0ELxomI001040@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114204126.00833100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Al, Here's the list: Monoboard Computer AMC 95/4005 2 ea. Dynamic RAM Board 0095-0017 also marked 95/1032 in ink. 32K Ram 3310 Communications Controller marked 1119 in ink. Also marked 950134 95/6110 FD Control Board. Marked 994260-901 in ink Thanks, Joe At 01:59 PM 1/14/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone have any information on ANY Multibus cards made by Advanced >Micro Computer? > >-- > >yes > >send along the part numbers (probably four digits starting with 9xxx or 4xxx) >and i'll put them up on bitsavers. > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 14 19:57:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 : dead power supply ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074131262.31082.131.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 01:03, Tony Duell wrote: > Not according to the totally lusing service manual that came with my XXX > (it has a glossary which includes : > > IC : Integrated Circuit. One of those black things on legs on a circuit > board [1] > > ICs : More than 1 IC Ooh, it does too! Ha ha! > How are you supposed to 'bypass the PSU'? Their words, not mine :-) The relevant bit with the crappy flowchart is page 5-3, which then refers to a Technical Information Notice for the bypass routine. (I don't *think* I have any of those notices) Looking at the block diagram for the PSU (pg. 4-3) I'm guessing shorting across the switched relay contacts so that it's always on would do it; the service processor should start up and the battery should get the appropriate charge voltage. Presumably power-down via the touch switch should work then too. Whether the machine will power up normally in this state I don't know; the block diagram implies that it should though as power-up logic for the machine as a whole is only handled when the service processor sees proper mains-derived regulated voltages from the PSU, not the +5V from a healthy battery. (Invalid NVRAM at that point is another matter, but nothing that fitting the workshop ROM to bypass the key disc security shouldn't fix :-) cheers Jules From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Jan 14 19:51:06 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Interesting.... BTW, the DDS1 drive I'm using is a DEC TLZ06. Any idea if > Hmm, wasnt the TLZ06 a DDS2 drive? At any rate, yeah, this drive > might very well have this "problem" .. I had it with many DDS > drives, might even have been a TLZ in that stack... I *do* know > I tested it with a TLZ04. > > > this might also be a problem with an Exabyte 8500 tape drive? It would be > Cant remember... only had a 8200 at the time, and cant remember the > results of that.. I just decided to test a TLZ06 on my system, and it don't want to work. I normally play with an Exabyte 8200, and that works just fine. (This on a 11/84 with a CMD controller) So it might be as some suggested, that the DDS drives aren't too happy. I tried with a DDS2 tape in it, if that matters. The system sees the drive, and I can mount and dismount tapes, and even eject them. Reading or writing gives errors, though. I have not verified the drive on any other system either, so there are several possible problems here, but I thought I'd report what I can anyhow. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 14 20:09:23 2004 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (ronbain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040114153030.00839bf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> How do you get of this list? -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 12:31 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: HP 2114A value?? At 01:03 PM 1/14/04 -0600, you wrote: >You wrote... > I'd recommend going to great lengths to find the docs that supposedly >came with the system!! You're darned tooten! Thanks for the advice. Joe From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 20:12:34 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: E1 and RT11v2 Message-ID: <200401150212.i0F2CY8v009052@spies.com> The V20C that I just tested was acquired in Montreal about 2 years ago. I acquired a number of RK05 media along with an RK05 drive. -- And Eric Smith has an empty spot in one of his racks that he travelled across the country to pick up, along with no software for the machine thanks to your 'rescue' efforts. From tomj at wps.com Wed Jan 14 20:22:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <001601c3daea$90c5f240$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <001601c3daea$90c5f240$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <1074132719.1840.83.camel@dhcp-249027> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:05, Andy Holt wrote: > > > One catch with emulators is that much of the relevant software is heavily > copy-protected via dongles which might make emulation problematic. And history will pay back all those #$##holes like Disney et al with their time-limited, server-encrypted media, when in 5, 10, 20 years hence entire games, texts, audio, dvds, etc become unreadable, and their issue evaporates. It's still bad though, all data should be saved (as a rule). From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Jan 14 20:15:56 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> References: <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: <200401142115.56678.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 14 January 2004 21:09, ronbain wrote: > How do you get of this list? Read the email headers, or the email you got when you signed up... List-Unsubscribe: , Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From shirsch at adelphia.net Wed Jan 14 20:17:01 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 HD question In-Reply-To: <31CD4D82-46D1-11D8-A26B-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Jos Dreesen wrote: > So what is the actual harddisk in a lisa 2/10 ? > I believed it to be a ST412, but the HD coverplate that is inside my > Lisa does not match the ST412 in my 11/23 homebuilt ( not by me). Don't hold me to it, but I _think_ the Lisa 2/10 uses a drive subsystem that's substantially the same as a ProFile 10Meg. The latter is an ST412 HDA with Apple electronics. I've successfully used the mechanism from both ST506 and ST412 drives to repair ProFiles with crashed heads. Steve From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 14 20:27:52 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: E11 and RT11v2 Message-ID: <200401150227.i0F2RqLp010909@spies.com> and while we're on the subject.. what ever happened to the software that John gave you? From: "John B" To: "Al Kossow" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:51:57 -0500 Jerome Fine is coming over on Monday so I will look tomorrow and see if we can find any on Monday. john From Ladyelec at aol.com Wed Jan 14 20:34:20 2004 From: Ladyelec at aol.com (Ladyelec@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Check out TechTV | Homebrew Computer Club Reunion on The Screensavers Message-ID: <1d7.18247897.2d37562c@aol.com> Click here: TechTV | Homebrew Computer Club, http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3560406,00.html Homebrew Computer Club Reunion on The Screensavers The seeds of Silicon Valley's booming tech industry may well have been planted by the now-legendary Homebrew Computer Club. Friday the 16th. , we reunite members of the Club for a look at the past, present, and future of tech. Isa From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 14 20:33:38 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: from "Johnny Billquist" at Jan 15, 2004 02:51:06 AM Message-ID: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> > > > Interesting.... BTW, the DDS1 drive I'm using is a DEC TLZ06. Any idea if > > Hmm, wasnt the TLZ06 a DDS2 drive? At any rate, yeah, this drive > > might very well have this "problem" .. I had it with many DDS > > drives, might even have been a TLZ in that stack... I *do* know > > I tested it with a TLZ04. > > > > > this might also be a problem with an Exabyte 8500 tape drive? It would be > > Cant remember... only had a 8200 at the time, and cant remember the > > results of that.. > > I just decided to test a TLZ06 on my system, and it don't want to > work. I normally play with an Exabyte 8200, and that works just fine. > (This on a 11/84 with a CMD controller) I managed to dig up a TZ30 and a couple TK50's last night, though I didn't get a chance to try it. If an Exabyte 8200 works just fine, I think I might try the Exabyte 8500, as I can hook it up to my PDP-11/23+ fairly easy (hooking an external drive up to my /73 as I mentioned would require rewiring the SCSI Bus). I just wish I'd thought to dig out a couple 8mm tapes while I was digging. BTW, what do you mean by "didn't want to work". Do you mean that it wouldn't work at all with your PDP-11/84 and CMD controller? The TLZ06 works just fine on my PDP-11/73 with Viking controller. It's just with RSTS/E ANSI tapes that I seem to be having a problem. Zane From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jan 14 22:34:09 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Microvax III Hardware Message-ID: <20040114.203410.1044.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> The following items are available for shipping plus 15%. With thanks to Megan's field guide: 2 M7620 KA650-BA Q MicroVAX III CPU (workstation license), 90nS. 1 M7651-PA DRV1W-S Q General-Purpose DMA Interface (for BA200 series) 1 M7164 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (1 of 2) (QDA SDI) 1 M7165 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (2 of 2) (QDA SDI) 2 M7168 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane colour bitmap module 1 M7169 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane video controller module 4 M7621-AV MS650-AA Q 8-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX III) 1 M7622-BP MS650-BA Q 16-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX III) 1 M7769 KFQSA-S Q Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk Interface), BA200 series 1 M8634-PA IEQ11-S Q Communications Controller (IEC/IEEE) (for BA200 series) 1 M3127-PA DESQA-SA/SF Q Ethernet/thinwire adapter (DELQA+DESTA) with S-box handle 1 M8087-PA Q Scanner/printer to Q-bus DMA interface Some cables are available, ask. If I don't get any takers, the whole lot goes into the melter. I just don't have the place to keep them anymore. . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed Jan 14 20:40:24 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114152905.0395fd58@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <4005FD98.B911A368@compsys.to> >Tom Uban wrote: > To further this depressing story, even if you were to save a room full of > old computers to run the actual software on, in time they would break down > and the integrated circuits inside would be no longer available for repair, > assuming that you were able to secure copies of the proprietary hardware > manuals that would be needed to maintain the systems... Jerome Fine replies: I suggest that the intent was to be able to use current hardware with the old software - at some time in the future. The difficulty is that so little information was made available that no estimate is possible. As for the suggestions I have seen in respect of using an emulator, I think that even one example is sufficient. I currently use Ersatz-11 to run software that is more than a decade old. The range is from the early 1970s to the early 1990s. While the former is unusual, just this week I tested some software in response to a question on this list. The release date of the operating system was November 20th, 1975. The hardware I am using is a 750 MHz Pentium III with 768 MBytes of memory and 3 * 40 GByte EIDE ATA 100 hard disk drives. In 1975, that operating system would have been running on a CPU with a speed of between 0.1 and 0.5 MHz and the memory would have likely been around 16 KBytes with 2.5 MByte removable hard disk drives. Yet 29 years later, it can still be run and I fully hope that it will still be possible in another 29 years. As one example of a much more versatile emulator, SIMH handles up to a dozen different hardware systems. I realize that probably over 95% of this list is more inclined to hardware and likes to hear the fans and see the lights blink, but eventually in 200 years, that hardware will no longer exist. BUT, I fully expect that the software will still run in some form even if multiple emulators are required. There is just far too much software out there that will still be running even if just a small fraction of the people use emulators. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 20:57:35 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: I'll make some comments on several posts here, even though Sellam's is copied below. The committes working on the problem have come up with recommendations that match Sellam's points #1 and #2. It is likely that we will be able to get donations of software and documentation to handle some of #3. There is not much support for #4. Storage will probably be in a live archive such as DSpace or Fedora. As to emulators, we are interested in more than PC's. Some of the early CAD programs were in-house ones written at Skidmore Owens and Merril here in Chicago. They ran on PDP's (11?) using Tektronic terminals. In response to Ted's suggestion to make paper printouts, that won't work for a 3D model with a lot of attached information about materials, suppliers of doors, etc. If you output one view, you loose an almost infinite number of other views, as well as the attached information. Also, paper won't work for an animated fly-through of a building. Granmted that there are many problems with trying to preserve digital data that is in proprietary formats, but the AIC wants to make a start, and to be able to do it in a way that preserves as much of the richness of the data as possible. Bob Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:40:12 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" I would do this: 1) Gather all the relevant data files into one place 2) Find whatever technical data you can on the formats of the data files 3) Gather up all the applications used to create the various files and their documentation 4) Gather up all the operating systems that those applications run on 5) Burn this all to DVD ROM Keep this all on a "live" archive (i.e. a hard drive) and DVD ROM and update the medium (migrate the "live" archive to a new hard drive and re-burn the DVD ROMs or upgrade to the latest and greatest archival medium of the day) every 2-3 years. >I'd like to pick the collective brains of the list and ask what emulators >people know of. If you could email me at rfeldmankfainccom, >listing the hardware and software emulated and what the emulator runs on, >I'd appreciate it. Emulators for what? PeeCees? I don't think there are PC emulators yet, except on other platforms (like the Mac) for compatibility purposes. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 21:17:22 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) Message-ID: All this talk about emulators has got my juices flowing again. I use emulators alot, and have always been fascinated with machine emulation. It's always been a desire of mine to code up an emulator of my own for some box but I've never been confident enough in either my coding chops or understanding of really low-level machine details to think I could pull it off (I am an application programmer by day and have done little serious system-level and below coding). Recently I've been toying with maybe trying to do something, but where to start? I picked a candidate like the Visual 1050 because my first thought was "there's alot of free existing, debugged code that can be utilized" i.e. no need to write a Z80 or 6502 core as there are quality ones available. Being a cpm machine would appear to be another plus in this area. And, I like this machine and I don't believe there is an existing emulator for it. Now the part that I'm hoping someone who has written an emulator can shed some light on: how much machine docs/specs does one need to hope to have a fair shot at pulling this off successfully? For example, I'm pretty sure that there must be some 6502 ROM code somewhere in that box that provide graphic routines services. If you had a listing of this I'm sure that you'd be that further ahead towards your goal. Or even if you knew where it was mapping into memory you could at least dump it and disassemble it. Thing is, all the docs I have are user guide/usage type things which obviously do not go into these sort of technical details. I'm sure there are those that could reverse engineer the entire machine soup-to-nuts but it certainly seems like that is trying to find the needle in the haystack (which is maybe some of the fun?). Comments? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jan 14 21:57:31 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Looking to Restore PDP-8 Message-ID: Greeting to all. I am looking to restore a PDP-8 computer (any flavor except PDP-8/A). Thought I had located a unit at a reasonable price, but the deal just fell throught. If anyone has items they would like to sell/trade/etc or know of some solid leads, I would be extremely grateful. The equipment will have a good home, and will be well cared for. I programmed PDP-8's from 1971 until around 1988 (continued to program PDP-11 and Vax machines until the mid 90's). My wife is claiming this is my "mid-life crisis". Who knows she could be right. I am especially interested in loacting a TU-56 tape unit to install on the machine. Ideally I will be able to get it running TSS-8, but may have to settle for OS/8. Also interested in ASR-33's with working papertape, as well as a high speed paper tape reader/punch (e.g. PC01). Thanks, and looing forward to hearing from all..... From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 14 21:58:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <00f001c3daef$a4c33000$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Emulators for what? PeeCees? > > CAD was done on Minis before 1985, and on > Mainframes (egad) before 1975. Ah yes. Of course. What wasn't related is whether the data set in question includes data from that far back (I was assuming, probably wrongly, we were talking within the past 20 years). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jan 14 22:17:59 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wondering if anyone has a 3-D CAD drawing on punched cards....... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:58 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Emulators for what? PeeCees? > > CAD was done on Minis before 1985, and on > Mainframes (egad) before 1975. Ah yes. Of course. What wasn't related is whether the data set in question includes data from that far back (I was assuming, probably wrongly, we were talking within the past 20 years). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at ttp://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 14 22:18:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > All this talk about emulators has got my juices flowing again. > > I use emulators alot, and have always been fascinated with machine > emulation. > > It's always been a desire of mine to code up an emulator of my own for some > box but I've never been confident enough in either my coding chops or > understanding of really low-level machine details to think I could pull it > off (I am an application programmer by day and have done little serious > system-level and below coding). Talk to Rich Cini. He would truly be an inspiration to you. (To wit, Rich taught himself C programming so that he could write an emulator for the Altair 8800.) > Recently I've been toying with maybe trying to do something, but where to > start? I picked a candidate like the Visual 1050 because my first thought > was "there's alot of free existing, debugged code that can be utilized" i.e. > no need to write a Z80 or 6502 core as there are quality ones available. > Being a cpm machine would appear to be another plus in this area. And, I > like this machine and I don't believe there is an existing emulator for it. I thought the Visual 1050 was a DOS compatible machine (i.e. 8086 processor). I could be wrong. > Now the part that I'm hoping someone who has written an emulator can shed > some light on: how much machine docs/specs does one need to hope to have a > fair shot at pulling this off successfully? For example, I'm pretty sure > that there must be some 6502 ROM code somewhere in that box that provide > graphic routines services. If you had a listing of this I'm sure that you'd > be that further ahead towards your goal. Or even if you knew where it was > mapping into memory you could at least dump it and disassemble it. Thing > is, all the docs I have are user guide/usage type things which obviously do > not go into these sort of technical details. I'm sure there are those that > could reverse engineer the entire machine soup-to-nuts but it certainly > seems like that is trying to find the needle in the haystack (which is maybe > some of the fun?). Reverse engineering the ROMs is a good start, and may be all you need. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 14 22:34:12 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: IBM series/1 Message-ID: <00c501c3db20$d37eba00$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I always kinda wanted one of these. But just right now is a bad time for me to buy another rack of stuff, so I'm passing it on. http://www.legler.com/equip.htm From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 14 23:23:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: IBM series/1 In-Reply-To: <00c501c3db20$d37eba00$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Jay West wrote: > I always kinda wanted one of these. But just right now is a bad time for me > to buy another rack of stuff, so I'm passing it on. > > http://www.legler.com/equip.htm Say, this guy is less than half an hour from me. If someone is interested (I would be save for the $875 price tag) then I'd be willing to help with the shipping and such. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kd7bcy at teleport.com Wed Jan 14 23:47:18 2004 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: IBM series/1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Say, this guy is less than half an hour from me. If someone is interested >(I would be save for the $875 price tag) then I'd be willing to help with >the shipping and such. I hate to think of the shipping costs. Heavy stuff, those old IBM's! And I'm a little spoiled having got mine for free. Almost tempted to talk to them, but it looks like they're setup for 220, too. Grr. As long as there is a Series/1 thread going, anyone know of a local(PDX) source for a 110v hard drive? Or any ideas on what to do with one that has no drives? Or even a way to hook up a smaller terminal? I hate to have it just sitting there doing nothing. -- ------------ John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net ------------ From MGemeny at pgcps.org Thu Jan 15 02:06:07 2004 From: MGemeny at pgcps.org (Mike Gemeny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - in it's final form - alive!! Message-ID: Jay, Congrats on getting your system back up! I have a favor to ask. Could you give us times for Access to run these HP benchmarks. HP was kind enough to give us times for a number of other systems, but Access was not around when these numbers were published. I guess we should know which CPU type your Main is too. Were you able to get the HP2000 Access running under SIMH? It sure sucks a lot less juice than real hardware, and that translates directly into heat. The heat is reusable in the winter (free heat) but in the summer you have to pay a second time to get rid of the heat (AC). I have a number of other HIB tapes that I need to get converted and tested. Are you in a position to convert dot-tap files back to real (reel) tapes? If so I can post things for you and send you a URL for them. Otherwise I would have to get some scratch tapes and cut them here and mail them. How much disk are you running? We'll have to set up HIBE tapes that will fit on your system. We usually run 2 simulated 2883 disks for an Access simulation (50 MEG total) but that could be pushed up if we need it. Keep us posted. Mike. BTEST 10 REM HP benchmark taken from "E" IMS. Rekeyed by MWG. 20 REM 30 REM System Time to Run 40 REM C' 2 Min. 2.8 sec. 50 REM F 1 Min. 16.5 sec. 60 REM C 2 Min. 2.5 sec. 70 REM E 1 Min. 23.6 sec. 80 REM Access Unk. Jay? Want to help out here? 90 REM 100 READ L 110 IF L<0 THEN 999 120 DATA 60000. 130 DATA -1 140 PRINT "START=";TIM(0) 150 X=0 160 X=X+1 170 IF X wrote: > >> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> >>> Interesting.... BTW, the DDS1 drive I'm using is a DEC TLZ06. Any >>> idea if >> Hmm, wasnt the TLZ06 a DDS2 drive? At any rate, yeah, this drive >> might very well have this "problem" .. I had it with many DDS >> drives, might even have been a TLZ in that stack... I *do* know >> I tested it with a TLZ04. Sorry to jump in in the middle, but my brane finally dropped into gear and I remembered that I have the Owner's Manual (EK-TLZ06-OM) for the drive. It's a DDS1 drive. 90M tapes, 2.0GB uncompressed. The first page of the overview states that it will work with TLZ04 (60M) tapes, as long as the data on the TLZ04 is not compressed. > So it might be as some suggested, that the DDS drives aren't too happy. > I tried with a DDS2 tape in it, if that matters. The system sees the > drive, and I can mount and dismount tapes, and even eject them. > Reading or > writing gives errors, though. Most DDS1 drives won't even *load* a 120M DDS2 tape. The TLZ06 almost certainly won't read or write to a 120M tape. The manual doesn't even acknowledge the existence of DDS2 or any tape larger than 90M, probably because they didn't exist when it was printed. :) > I have not verified the drive on any other system either, so there are > several possible problems here, but I thought I'd report what I can > anyhow. First, I'd try a DDS1 tape. Also, 4mm drives, by nature of the tape path, are notoriously filthy around the heads. The tape makes almost a 360 degree turn around a ~1/4-inch capstan, spewing bits of magnetic coating everywhere. A couple of passes with a cleaning tape often works wonders. I could scan this manual if need be. I don't have any OCR software at present, but I could come up with a creditable imaged pdf. Doc From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Wed Jan 14 23:35:18 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40062696.4010806@mcdermith.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > OK, the 290x chips are not simple, but data sheets exist, so it should be > possible to make an FPGA do the same thing. > Most of the 29xx bit slice components are already available in macro libraries for most FPGA families... Bill From david at dynamicconcepts.us Wed Jan 14 21:13:35 2004 From: david at dynamicconcepts.us (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Looking to Restore PDP-8 Message-ID: Greeting to all. I am looking to restore a PDP-8 computer (any flavor except PDP-8/A). Thought I had located a unit at a reasonable price, but the deal just fell throught. If anyone has items they would like to sell/trade/etc or know of some solid leads, I would be extremely grateful. The equipment will have a good home, and will be well cared for. I programmed PDP-8's from 1971 until around 1988 (continued to program PDP-11 and Vax machines until the mid 90's). My wife is claiming this is my "mid-life crisis". Who knows she could be right. I am especially interested in loacting a TU-56 tape unit to install on the machine. Ideally I will be able to get it running TSS-8, but may have to settle for OS/8. Also interested in ASR-33's with working papertape, as well as a high speed paper tape reader/punch (e.g. PC01). Thanks, and looing forward to hearing from all..... From david at dynamicconcepts.us Wed Jan 14 21:57:06 2004 From: david at dynamicconcepts.us (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Looking to Restore PDP-8 Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: David V. Corbin [mailto:david@dynamicconcepts.us] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:14 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Looking to Restore PDP-8 Greeting to all. I am looking to restore a PDP-8 computer (any flavor except PDP-8/A). Thought I had located a unit at a reasonable price, but the deal just fell throught. If anyone has items they would like to sell/trade/etc or know of some solid leads, I would be extremely grateful. The equipment will have a good home, and will be well cared for. I programmed PDP-8's from 1971 until around 1988 (continued to program PDP-11 and Vax machines until the mid 90's). My wife is claiming this is my "mid-life crisis". Who knows she could be right. I am especially interested in loacting a TU-56 tape unit to install on the machine. Ideally I will be able to get it running TSS-8, but may have to settle for OS/8. Also interested in ASR-33's with working papertape, as well as a high speed paper tape reader/punch (e.g. PC01). Thanks, and looing forward to hearing from all..... From david at dynamicconcepts.us Wed Jan 14 21:58:25 2004 From: david at dynamicconcepts.us (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Looking to Restore PDP-8 Message-ID: Greeting to all. I am looking to restore a PDP-8 computer (any flavor except PDP-8/A). Thought I had located a unit at a reasonable price, but the deal just fell throught. If anyone has items they would like to sell/trade/etc or know of some solid leads, I would be extremely grateful. The equipment will have a good home, and will be well cared for. I programmed PDP-8's from 1971 until around 1988 (continued to program PDP-11 and Vax machines until the mid 90's). My wife is claiming this is my "mid-life crisis". Who knows she could be right. I am especially interested in loacting a TU-56 tape unit to install on the machine. Ideally I will be able to get it running TSS-8, but may have to settle for OS/8. Also interested in ASR-33's with working papertape, as well as a high speed paper tape reader/punch (e.g. PC01). Thanks, and looing forward to hearing from all..... From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 19:49:10 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401150123.i0F1NShx001456@spies.com> References: <200401150123.i0F1NShx001456@spies.com> Message-ID: <4005F196.7000308@hotmail.com> Al Kossow wrote: >>If it uses standard chips (i.e. data sheets exist), then it can be >>reverse-engineered! >> >> > > >Not if the uCode proms have rotted. > > > > I thought 2900 designs usually used fuse link proms as the eproms of the era weren't fast enough. Jim Davis. From marcosvelasco at uol.com.br Thu Jan 15 05:05:43 2004 From: marcosvelasco at uol.com.br (Marcos Velasco) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Brazilian... Unitron MAC 512... References: Message-ID: <006701c3db57$8551bcb0$0900a8c0@terramedia.com.br> Hi ! Anyone have this computer to sell me ? Thank you Marcos From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 15 04:21:24 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: I ended up going with the TZ30 in the /73 due to some difficulties with my RSX-11M+ system disk not liking the /23+ (I used M+ to write the tape). I'm happy to report that so far RSTS/E seems to be much happier with the TZ30 drive and a TK50 than it was with a TLZ06-AA drive and a DDS1 tape. Yes, I was able to read the tape! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 15 04:53:31 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? In-Reply-To: References: <200401142010.i0EKAwP21471@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <0E99C1DD-4749-11D8-B586-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 14, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> This may seem silly, but it occured to me this morning (musing about >> how >> to boot an old 11/34) that I could use a device which would pretend to >> be an actual tape drive. > > You can take a look at 'vtserver', though it seems to only be for Unix > (I'm not positive about this, as I've not looked into it much). I don't know about booting another OS directly from vtserver, but I've successfully copied a BRUSYS image to RX02 with it, and booted from the resulting disk. ISTR that there's also a method to make a vtserver-bootable xxdp image, but I've not tried it. > If you get RL02 drives, and a MicroVAX (Q-Bus) with an RLV12 > controller to drive the RL01/RL02 drives, there are a few tricks that > you can pull to get an OS onto the packs. Still, that might be a lot > more hardware to collect. Heh. I've got SDI with functional RA60s and media, TU80, several miles of tape, RX02s with exactly two(2) working floppy disks and about 30 pounds of 8-inch bulk-erased coasters, and a borrowed RT-11 v5. install set on 8-inch media, except Disk 1 has about 3 critical corrupt files on it. I apparently own the licenses for both RT-11 v5.x and RSX11M on this box (very long story), but the previous owner bulk-erased *all* the storage media except the disk packs (and wrote zeroes, then trash files then zeroes again, to the disk packs). Including all the distribution media. It's enough to make a grown man cry. I've got BSD running on it, but frankly, I've got a metric assload of Unix boxes that are more interesting as Unix servers and cheaper to run. I wanted something that's unique to my PDP-11. Doc From kurtk7 at visi.com Thu Jan 15 05:38:03 2004 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: more COSMAC stuff In-Reply-To: <021001c3dade$f2d758e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047><1073977843.400399f3748ab@my.visi.com><1073980031.4003a27f2d072@my.visi.com><1074041914.2230.20.camel@dhcp-249161> <400497C1.7040909@jcwren.com> <1074112588.1835.16.camel@dhcp-249027> <021001c3dade$f2d758e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1074166683.40067b9b361ec@my.visi.com> I'm sorry I said anything. You could offer something for x number of days, and collect the names of those who respond and just randomly pick one. Though, I agreee, the number method gives everyone a chance, and I favor this too, as it is easy and straight forward. I'd simply mark the Subject line with something to catches the eye, as the daily batches tend to be quite numerous at times. I elected not to get the digests. Whatever method you use, should be ok, but I think the only issue is giving a bit more time for everyone to respond. Kurt Quoting Jay West : > Hum... I liked the random number idea. But... here's another thought... > > I do NOT have time to do this right now... but what about this: Hack the > mailman list software so that if someone includes a special string as like > the first line of the email (such as *TIME SENSITIVE* or somesuch), the list > software would automatically send the email as a separate email to list > members regardless of their digest settings? > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Jennings" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: more COSMAC stuff > > > > I mean, no offense to anyone, but this is all far too complicated. First > > off, people get digests voluntarily -- if I had to implement a voting > > scheme I'd keep it on the shelf (or worse) -- fairness has nothing to > > with it -- yowza! > > > > tomj > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 21:06, Brian Chase wrote: > > > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > > > > > I dunno. It seems a little unfair to people who get the digests, etc. > > > > I know there's a thousand opinions about. I like the idea of picking > a > > > > random number between 1 and 1000, and whoever gets closest without > going > > > > over gets it. With a 3 day window, that gives everyone a fair chance > to > > > > read the posting, respond, and have some hope. > > > > > > Hey... I like this idea a lot. > > > > > > -brian. > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 15 06:44:33 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:27 2005 Subject: Hmm... References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg ... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? ;) - Mike From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Thu Jan 15 07:51:19 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) References: Message-ID: Actually it is a Z80 CP/M box with a 6502 used as a graphics co-processor. details here: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=842 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) > > I thought the Visual 1050 was a DOS compatible machine (i.e. 8086 > processor). I could be wrong. From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Thu Jan 15 15:09:07 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40070173.1050105@ntlworld.com> Damien Cymbal wrote: >Actually it is a Z80 CP/M box with a 6502 used as a graphics co-processor. > >details here: > > > If you wanted to save some leg work, I would check out the Mess website (www.mess.org), most of the work of the z80 and 6502 emulators have already been done. Dan From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 15 08:06:59 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - in it's final form - alive!! References: Message-ID: <007e01c3db70$d7a15340$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > Congrats on getting your system back up! Thanks! It has been pure hell to be honest. Many times it seemed to be up, only to have something fail the day after I posted it was up. But I'm pretty sure it's up for a good while now :) > I have a favor to ask. Could you give us times for Access to run these HP benchmarks. HP was kind enough to give us times for a number of other systems, but Access was not around when these numbers were published. I guess we should know which CPU type your Main is too. Sure, no problem. I will try to run it tonight. My main and IOP cpu's are 2100A and 2100S respectively. However, a project is under way to reverse engineer the Access IOP microcode and port to the E machines, so at some point I will likely have two 21MXE cpus instead. Speaking of which, I notice in the comments you list times for C, C', F, E, etc... these aren't really detailed enough. For example, E will run faster on a 21MX than a 2100 mainly due to memory access times between core and semiconductor. > Were you able to get the HP2000 Access running under SIMH? It sure sucks a lot less juice than real hardware, and that translates directly into heat. The heat is reusable in the winter (free heat) but in the summer you have to pay a second time to get rid of the heat (AC). *GRIN* Most true. However, I'm not working with SIMH as I'm still working on my own HP emulator "HPEMU". Mine emulates not just a cpu, but a whole computer room full of separate (or connected) HP systems, printers, etc. I made huge progress on it, then got stonewalled due to work issues. I hope to get back to it and finish it off. It's not all that far from being done if I could just find the time to get back into it. > I have a number of other HIB tapes that I need to get converted and tested. Are you in a position to convert dot-tap files back to real (reel) tapes? If so I can post things for you and send you a URL for them. Otherwise I would have to get some scratch tapes and cut them here and mail them. I currently do not have a 1/2 tape drive hooked up to a PC to cut .tap files. However, I'm working on that - right now it's top priority. I would hope to have everything in place for that within a week or two. > How much disk are you running? We'll have to set up HIBE tapes that will fit on your system. We usually run 2 simulated 2883 disks for an Access simulation (50 MEG total) but that could be pushed up if we need it. I currently have one 7906D (30mb) running, but with Access you loose head 3 as it only supports 7905's. I seem to recall that works out to something like 25mb (removable and fixed platters are different densities, and "heads" 2 and 3 are actually on the same platter). However, I have a 7900A (10mb) in a separate rack I can easily wheel in and connect, as well as another working 7906D in a different separate rack I can wheel in and connect. So I currently have 30mb ballpark, but can have 40 or 60mb easily. > Keep us posted. Sure! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 15 09:30:38 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? References: <200401142010.i0EKAwP21471@mwave.heeltoe.com> <0E99C1DD-4749-11D8-B586-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <007301c3db7c$875c32e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> From: Doc Shipley > I wanted something that's unique to my PDP-11. > What kind of PDP? ...and I'll add that I'm working on the same problem myself, and am 99.93% of the way towards RSX-11, and 90% the way towards RT-11. John A. From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 15 10:06:22 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Hmm... Atari 820 In-Reply-To: <008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> <008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <4006BA7E.3080205@atarimuseum.com> Sure, I've got several if you're interested, some are still brand new in their original boxes. Curt Mike wrote: >Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 > >http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg > >... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? > > >;) >- Mike > > > > > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jan 15 10:19:34 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? In-Reply-To: <007301c3db7c$875c32e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: FYI: Did you see the 9-Track Tape on auction on e-Bay, looks like an RSX-11 distribution.... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:31 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? From: Doc Shipley > I wanted something that's unique to my PDP-11. > What kind of PDP? ...and I'll add that I'm working on the same problem myself, and am 99.93% of the way towards RSX-11, and 90% the way towards RT-11. John A. From energyx at ucs.net Thu Jan 15 09:49:34 2004 From: energyx at ucs.net (Paul H Rivet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Kaypro Message-ID: <000d01c3db7f$2cf9be00$2f1bfa3f@fcc.net> Available for purchase I have a Kaypro 10 and a Kaypro 4. Both in excellent working condition with programs some manuals. PAUL H RIVET CREATIVE ENERGY LLC 35 West Orangeburg Road Orangeburg, New York 10962 845 359 4434 Fax 845 365 3650 From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Jan 15 06:37:30 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: KDJ-11A won't run In-Reply-To: <40047A24.1020206@arrl.net> References: <1073995282.14479.12.camel@pluto> <40047A24.1020206@arrl.net> Message-ID: <1074169661.5659.6.camel@pluto> On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 23:07, no wrote: > > > > > Assuming this is a BA23 cabinet, there should be just 1 board in the > number 1 slot. The CPU. Be it quad width or dual width. > > -nick > Removing it didn't seem to make any difference, and that's where it was when I got it. I don't think it's a BA23 cabinet. It's not got RX50s, and it has a small control panel with a keyswitch, three LEDs and three toggle switches. I can't remember the name of the manufacturer (not DEC), but there's a silver sticky label inside it on the left side. I'm nowhere near it right now or I'd check. Gordon From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Jan 15 06:45:06 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074170122.5659.14.camel@pluto> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 03:17, Damien Cymbal wrote: > All this talk about emulators has got my juices flowing again. > > I use emulators alot, and have always been fascinated with machine > emulation. > > It's always been a desire of mine to code up an emulator of my own for some > box but I've never been confident enough in either my coding chops or > understanding of really low-level machine details to think I could pull it > off (I am an application programmer by day and have done little serious > system-level and below coding). An emulator really is just an application. > Recently I've been toying with maybe trying to do something, but where to > start? I picked a candidate like the Visual 1050 because my first thought > was "there's alot of free existing, debugged code that can be utilized" i.e. > no need to write a Z80 or 6502 core as there are quality ones available. > Being a cpm machine would appear to be another plus in this area. And, I > like this machine and I don't believe there is an existing emulator for it. Awww come on, surely you'd want to write the CPU core yourself? Then you can say it's all your own work. > Now the part that I'm hoping someone who has written an emulator can shed > some light on: how much machine docs/specs does one need to hope to have a > fair shot at pulling this off successfully? For example, I'm pretty sure > that there must be some 6502 ROM code somewhere in that box that provide > graphic routines services. If you had a listing of this I'm sure that you'd > be that further ahead towards your goal. Or even if you knew where it was > mapping into memory you could at least dump it and disassemble it. Thing > is, all the docs I have are user guide/usage type things which obviously do > not go into these sort of technical details. I'm sure there are those that > could reverse engineer the entire machine soup-to-nuts but it certainly > seems like that is trying to find the needle in the haystack (which is maybe > some of the fun?). > Comments? I have just finished writing a simple PDP-8 emulator, based entirely on a handbook picked up in a charity shop. As it stands, it seems to run ODT and the programs in the manuals quite successfully. It doesn't have interrupts (yet), and I'm not 100% confident in the memory extension fields (but they seem to work). My next project is to write a DF32 extension for it, and see if I can't get the OS/8 or 4k Disk Monitor System going. There are PDP-8 emulators out there already, better ones than this too. But I wanted one that was *mine*! (Shh, little secret, keep it under your hat but it's an experiment, maybe a precursor to building an 8 in TTL). If you want me to write up a more expansive description of what I did, then I will. It took about three evenings, start to finish. Gordon. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 10:28:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Hmm... In-Reply-To: <008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Mike wrote: > Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 > > http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg > > ... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? Say, that's pretty crazy. I've always thought of the PR-40 printer as looking Victorian in style, though accidentally. This now paints it in a new light. I have an 820 but it's new in the box :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 10:33:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > Actually it is a Z80 CP/M box with a 6502 used as a graphics co-processor. > > details here: > > http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=842 Ok, I was thinking of the Visual Commuter. I don't believe I have a 1050. It seems like a really nifty machine, with the 6502 used as a graphics co-processor and all. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jan 15 10:53:56 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: Your message of "15 Jan 2004 12:35:22 GMT." <1074170122.5659.14.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > >There are PDP-8 emulators out there already, better ones than this too. >But I wanted one that was *mine*! (Shh, little secret, keep it under >your hat but it's an experiment, maybe a precursor to building an 8 in >TTL). I'm probably high, but I'm still dreamy from the work the XKL guys did :-) If you want to do it in an FPGA (well, CPLD), let me know - I'll help! You can get some simple cpld kits from Xilinx for $99. I'd plop some SRAM next to one and use a JTAG compliant port to load up the memory... (and, well, you'd obviously need a bunch of LEDS also, otherwise, what would be the point? :-) -brad From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 15 11:37:52 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) References: <1074170122.5659.14.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <4006CFF0.6090005@jetnet.ab.ca> Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > There are PDP-8 emulators out there already, better ones than this too. > But I wanted one that was *mine*! (Shh, little secret, keep it under > your hat but it's an experiment, maybe a precursor to building an 8 in > TTL). Why not use real transistors, I hear they are planing not to make TTL anymore :) > If you want me to write up a more expansive description of what I did, > then I will. It took about three evenings, start to finish. > > Gordon. From palazzol at comcast.net Thu Jan 15 11:46:25 2004 From: palazzol at comcast.net (Frank Palazzolo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401150902.i0F92liT098912@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40068BA1.27487.61A5BD@localhost> Hello, I just wanted to take a chance to plug MESS: http://www.mess.org/ It is an open-source, multi-system emulator for old computers and game consoles, based on the MAME codebase. If someone is interested in writing an emulator of an old system, this is one way to go. There is definitely a learning curve, but there are preexisting modules for many microprocessors. If anyone is interested in exploring this, feel free to contact me directly. Thanks, -Frank From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 15 11:55:56 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) References: <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <4006D42C.4050809@jetnet.ab.ca> Brad Parker wrote: > I'm probably high, but I'm still dreamy from the work the XKL guys did :-) > > If you want to do it in an FPGA (well, CPLD), let me know - I'll help! > > You can get some simple cpld kits from Xilinx for $99. I'd plop some > SRAM next to one and use a JTAG compliant port to load up the memory... A real 8 could be a interesting CPLD project, as I see two 6 bit alu chips. a control and I/O,MMU chip. My gripe is that with the FPGA software I use, is you need get a new (free) license every 4 months. > (and, well, you'd obviously need a bunch of LEDS also, otherwise, what > would be the point? :-) Don't forget the front pannel switches! > -brad > From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Jan 15 12:03:13 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 (was Re: Hmm...) References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> <008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <009b01c3db91$d7dc8480$6401a8c0@knology.net> I've owned both of those printers back in the day. The print mechanism is indeed the same. Different electronics, of course. The PR-40 is actually a standard "Centronics" parallel interface still in use today. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:44 AM Subject: Hmm... > > Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 > > http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg > > ... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? > > > ;) > - Mike From kth at srv.net Thu Jan 15 11:15:09 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4006CA9D.6030302@srv.net> Jay West wrote: >I have a system that does an "autobaud" when you hit return to log in. If I >hook up a VT220, it works at 7/1/E, 8/1/N, 7/1/O, etc. etc. no problem. If I >hookup a Televideo 950, hitting return gets no response at all. This is NOT >a DTE vs. DCE problem, because the televideo does work with the same system >on a different type of serial port. > >I was thinking something might be brain damaged with parity >generation/checking on this terminal. Is this a known issue of TV950's? >About the only way I can find out whats going on is to dig out my datascope >and see the start data & stop bits between the two when hitting return and >see what is different. > >Any thoughts? > >Jay West > > I've had problems in the past with voltage levels on RS-232. One device runs -12/+12V, the other 0/+5V, and they refused to talk bi-directionally. Putting in a homemade level shifter (forced the 0/+5 to -9/+9) made it work. I think this may have been Televideo widgets to a Vax/3100, iirc. From kth at srv.net Thu Jan 15 11:35:56 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: <40070173.1050105@ntlworld.com> References: <40070173.1050105@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4006CF7C.7030508@srv.net> Dan Williams wrote: > Damien Cymbal wrote: > >> Actually it is a Z80 CP/M box with a 6502 used as a graphics >> co-processor. >> >> details here: >> >> >> > If you wanted to save some leg work, I would check out the Mess > website (www.mess.org), most of the work of the z80 and 6502 emulators > have already been done. > > Dan > > Is there any source for the floppy images necessary to run the emulations (specifically the Kaypro). The MESS emulations might be intresting, but not being able to run anything on them makes them much less useful. From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 15 12:40:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Hmm... References: Message-ID: <003b01c3db97$010f7240$1a02a8c0@starship1> The Atari 822 Thermal printer was also an Apple ][ printer as well, I think it was an alp's I need to doublecheck, I saw the exact same printer in a very old Apple catalog long ago... the Atari 825 printer was a Centronics 737 Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Hmm... > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Mike wrote: > > > Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 > > > > http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg > > > > ... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? > > Say, that's pretty crazy. I've always thought of the PR-40 printer as > looking Victorian in style, though accidentally. This now paints it in a > new light. > > I have an 820 but it's new in the box :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 15 12:52:54 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: <4006CA9D.6030302@srv.net> References: <025e01c3dae4$90bb52a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4006CA9D.6030302@srv.net> Message-ID: <200401151859.NAA07646@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I've had problems in the past with voltage levels on RS-232. > One device runs -12/+12V, the other 0/+5V, and they refused to talk > bi-directionally. Putting in a homemade level shifter (forced the > 0/+5 to -9/+9) made it work. I think a sending device is required to swing at least below -3V and above +3V for it to be RS-232 (though I may have the voltages wrong, it's been a while - but I'm sure they're symmetric about 0). I ran into this when connecting Sun keyboards to vanilla serial ports - I found I needed a level shifter and an inverter (of course, the inverter may be unnecessary depending on whether the level shifter you use inverts or not). (Sun keyboards are RS-232 except for the voltage levels in question, and possibly impedances.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Jan 15 13:01:09 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Kaypro Message-ID: <57050-2200414151919226@M2W046.mail2web.com> how much do you want for the 4? I live in Fredericksburg, VA 22406. best regards, Steve Thatcher Original Message: ----------------- From: Paul H Rivet energyx@ucs.net Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:49:34 -0500 To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Kaypro Available for purchase I have a Kaypro 10 and a Kaypro 4. Both in excellent working condition with programs some manuals. PAUL H RIVET CREATIVE ENERGY LLC 35 West Orangeburg Road Orangeburg, New York 10962 845 359 4434 Fax 845 365 3650 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jan 15 13:00:50 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Hmm... In-Reply-To: <003b01c3db97$010f7240$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > The Atari 822 Thermal printer was also an Apple ][ printer as well, I think > it was an alp's I need to doublecheck, I saw the exact same printer in a > very old Apple catalog long ago... the Atari 825 printer was a Centronics > 737 ... and wasnt that 737 also known as 'GLP' - Great Little Printer, budnled with several Tandy and Commodore (via user port) 'puters at the time? --f From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 15 14:13:03 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074196977.2388.21.camel@dhcp-249027> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 16:27, Tony Duell wrote: > > OK, using a 1 million gate FPGA to replace a 7400 is > > overkill, but it would work > > > > Not if the FPGA isn't 5v tolerant. > > I am quie sure the problem of level-shifting between TTL levels and > whatever's common in 50 years time will be solved by then :-). 50-year-on > parts will be so much faster than good old TTL that the extra delay > caused by the level shifters won't be a problem either. Not to argue with you, but it's likely to be very analogous to right now, say interfacing 3.3V FPGA junk to old CCSL or DTL. Schematically easy, and a bunch of fabrication and installation hurdles, nothing fatal. (The speed difference today is likely as you guess for .5C from now.) But it's not even unlikely that half a century from now our clean and neat binary logic hardware will be as robust and orthogonal-seeming as electron tube logic does today. In fact, I think this is just as or more likely than the former scenario. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 15 14:13:34 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B8E2C86-4797-11D8-B586-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 15, 2004, at 10:19 AM, David V. Corbin wrote: > FYI: Did you see the 9-Track Tape on auction on e-Bay, looks like an > RSX-11 > distribution.... I have 2 or 3 reels that have very similar labels, and a couple labeled "TCPWare". All bulk-erased. I'm not paying ~$75.00 for a distribution tape that may or may not be intact. Actually, if I can get proof that license was conferred with the machinery - not unlikely in this instance - I can get the install media pretty easily, including the TCPWare. Doc From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 15 14:23:41 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Hmm... References: Message-ID: <005a01c3dba5$77721d80$1a02a8c0@starship1> I recall the Tandy's but I think that printer was long discontinued before the VIC or C64 came out, perhaps it was used on the older CBM's Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: Re: Hmm... > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > > The Atari 822 Thermal printer was also an Apple ][ printer as well, I think > > it was an alp's I need to doublecheck, I saw the exact same printer in a > > very old Apple catalog long ago... the Atari 825 printer was a Centronics > > 737 > ... and wasnt that 737 also known as 'GLP' - Great Little Printer, > budnled with several Tandy and Commodore (via user port) 'puters > at the time? > > --f > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 15 14:29:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074196977.2388.21.camel@dhcp-249027> References: <1074196977.2388.21.camel@dhcp-249027> Message-ID: <200401152031.PAA08310@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > But it's not even unlikely that half a century from now our clean and > neat binary logic hardware will be as robust and orthogonal-seeming > as electron tube logic does today. In fact, I think this is just as > or more likely than the former scenario. And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic to modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the analogous statement to be true 50 years from now. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 15 14:33:40 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Picked a Canberra 35 Plus??? Message-ID: <00fa01c3dba6$dd266180$dc08dd40@66067007> At a auction today I got a lot that had a Canberra Series 35 Plus model 3502 something in it? I checked google and really found knowing that help figure out what this unit is? Anyone have a glue? Thanks From paul at frixxon.co.uk Thu Jan 15 14:32:14 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <65C431D9-4736-11D8-BBE1-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <65C431D9-4736-11D8-BBE1-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <4006F8CE.9090505@frixxon.co.uk> Doc Shipley wrote: > I remembered that I have the Owner's Manual (EK-TLZ06-OM) for the > drive. > > I could scan this manual if need be. I don't have any OCR software at > present, but I could come up with a creditable imaged pdf. It's already online, Doc. Here is one of the few places that has a copy: http://www.purdueriots.com/classiccmp/dec94mds/tlz06om4.pdf -- Paul From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 15 14:38:39 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: New Computer Museum in Austin Message-ID: <010001c3dba7$8f8a6920$dc08dd40@66067007> Earlier this week I was told that Dell (Mr. Dell not the company) had purchased a very large old warehouse and was going to turn it into a vintage computer museum of his own. I was also told that he had sent out a team to locate old hardware and stuff for him. Anyone in the Austin area know about this? From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 14:39:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401152031.PAA08310@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > But it's not even unlikely that half a century from now our clean and > > neat binary logic hardware will be as robust and orthogonal-seeming > > as electron tube logic does today. In fact, I think this is just as > > or more likely than the former scenario. > > And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic to > modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the analogous > statement to be true 50 years from now. If there are any electronics hackers in the future. That sort of activity may either be banned or the knowledge lost to time and bad laws, or a combination thereof. Or maybe we won't even be around in fifty years. Sorry, I'm a pessimist these days :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jan 15 14:48:39 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic to > > modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the analogous > > statement to be true 50 years from now. > > If there are any electronics hackers in the future. That sort of activity > may either be banned or the knowledge lost to time and bad laws, or a > combination thereof. Or maybe we won't even be around in fifty years. This (no more low-level tech hackers) might very well be a reality, yes, if the current trends keep up. Scaring thought... > Sorry, I'm a pessimist these days :( Thats why you should go out more, Sellam... and I know *just* the place where we should go (first) :) Next week, gotta go to court tonight and tomorrow :( --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From bqt at update.uu.se Thu Jan 15 14:52:16 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: <200401151632.i0FGVuid001613@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I just decided to test a TLZ06 on my system, and it don't want to > > work. I normally play with an Exabyte 8200, and that works just fine. > > (This on a 11/84 with a CMD controller) > > I managed to dig up a TZ30 and a couple TK50's last night, though I didn't > get a chance to try it. If an Exabyte 8200 works just fine, I think I might > try the Exabyte 8500, as I can hook it up to my PDP-11/23+ fairly easy > (hooking an external drive up to my /73 as I mentioned would require > rewiring the SCSI Bus). I just wish I'd thought to dig out a couple 8mm > tapes while I was digging. The 8500 should work fine as well, according to documentation I have. > BTW, what do you mean by "didn't want to work". Do you mean that it wouldn't > work at all with your PDP-11/84 and CMD controller? The TLZ06 works just > fine on my PDP-11/73 with Viking controller. It's just with RSTS/E ANSI > tapes that I seem to be having a problem. I just tried with RSX, using BRU, DMP and INI. With DMP I tried a tape I wrote on another machine with tar. I got some funny error. I can send you the RSX error log of the occasion, if that makes you happy. Both BRU and INI will create small blocks. Btw, I also created small blocks on the NetBSD machine I have a DDS drive on, and it went just fine there. But I did notice that someone else said that the TLZ06 will not like DDS2 tapes, which is what I had. The NetBSD box appearantly have a DDS2 drive... (since it works fine) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 15 14:58:20 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic >> to modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the >> analogous statement to be true 50 years from now. > If there are any electronics hackers in the future. That sort of > activity may either be banned or the knowledge lost to time and bad > laws, or a combination thereof. I have trouble imagining any such scenario in which the issue of interfacing then-modern logic to 50-year-old logic even arises. > Or maybe we won't even be around in fifty years. Well, yes, but then the issue is even less relevant. :) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 15 15:11:14 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> References: <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: <1074200457.2385.23.camel@dhcp-249027> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 18:09, ronbain wrote: > How do you get of this list? Here's how to unsubscribe: First, ask your Internet Provider to mail you an Unsubscribing Kit. Then follow these directions. The kit will most likely be the standard no-fault type. Depending on requirements, System A and/or System B can be used. When operating System A, depress lever and a plastic dalkron unsubscriber will be dispensed through the slot immediately underneath. When you have fastened the adhesive lip, attach connection marked by the large "X" outlet hose. Twist the silver- coloured ring one inch below the connection point until you feel it lock. The kit is now ready for use. The Cin-Eliminator is activated by the small switch on the lip. When securing, twist the ring back to its initial condition, so that the two orange lines meet. Disconnect. Place the dalkron unsubscriber in the vacuum receptacle to the rear. Activate by pressing the blue button. The controls for System B are located on the opposite side. The red release switch places the Cin-Eliminator into position; it can be adjusted manually up or down by pressing the blue manual release button. The opening is self- adjusting. To secure after use, press the green button, which simultaneously activates the evaporator and returns the Cin-Eliminator to its storage position. You may log off if the green exit light is on over the evaporator. If the red light is illuminated, one of the Cin-Eliminator requirements has not been properly implemented. Press the "List Guy" call button on the right of the evaporator. He will secure all facilities from his control panel. To use the Auto-Unsub, first undress and place all your clothes in the clothes rack. Put on the velcro slippers located in the cabinet immediately below. Enter the shower, taking the entire kit with you. On the control panel to your upper right upon entering you will see a "Shower seal" button. Press to activate. A green light will then be illuminated immediately below. On the intensity knob, select the desired setting. Now depress the Auto-Unsub activation lever. Bathe normally. The Auto-Unsub will automatically go off after three minutes unless you activate the "Manual off" override switch by flipping it up. When you are ready to leave, press the blue "Shower seal" release button. The door will open and you may leave. Please remove the velcro slippers and place them in their container. If you prefer the ultrasonic log-off mode, press the indicated blue button. When the twin panels open, pull forward by rings A & B. The knob to the left, just below the blue light, has three settings, low, medium or high. For normal use, the medium setting is suggested. After these settings have been made, you can activate the device by switching to the "ON" position the clearly marked red switch. If during the unsubscribing operation you wish to change the settings, place the "manual off" override switch in the "OFF" position. You may now make the change and repeat the cycle. When the green exit light goes on, you may log off and have lunch. Please close the door behind you. (Thanks to Keleigh Hardie on the AMClist) From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 15 15:18:44 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <4005FD98.B911A368@compsys.to> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040114152905.0395fd58@mail.ubanproductions.com> <4005FD98.B911A368@compsys.to> Message-ID: <1074200918.2388.31.camel@dhcp-249027> But entire paradigms disappear, not just hardware. I disagree that today's software will be runnable at all 'in the future', the vefry concept of what a program is will likely change or even disappear. Take a look at how computable problems were approached in 1953 vs. today. Granted, there's the new-system-startup and massive quick orientation into the source-compile-load-run-interact model we are just now exiting (via networking, virtual machinery, autonomous software, etc), and running Pong on a peecee will be as easy and amusing as breaking off tabs in answerbacks and patching papertape. tomj PS: I worked, in 1980, for 6 months + 1 day, at the horrible Avco Everett Research Lab in Mass (my one and only defense job, shades of GILES GOATBOY). I did my 8x300 cross-compilations on an IBM 360 running (gulp) TSO. In the room next door was a CDC 6600, card and printer in/out, no "console". They had an IBM 1401 emulator under which payroll ran, allegedly, running on it. TSO sucked. Imagine 20-minute kestroke response ("SEND") right before lunch as normal behavior. On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 18:40, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Tom Uban wrote: > > > To further this depressing story, even if you were to save a room full of > > old computers to run the actual software on, in time they would break down > > and the integrated circuits inside would be no longer available for repair, > > assuming that you were able to secure copies of the proprietary hardware > > manuals that would be needed to maintain the systems... > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I suggest that the intent was to be able to use > current hardware with the old software - at > some time in the future. > > The difficulty is that so little information was > made available that no estimate is possible. > > As for the suggestions I have seen in respect > of using an emulator, I think that even one > example is sufficient. I currently use Ersatz-11 > to run software that is more than a decade old. > > The range is from the early 1970s to the early > 1990s. While the former is unusual, just this > week I tested some software in response to > a question on this list. The release date of > the operating system was November 20th, 1975. > The hardware I am using is a 750 MHz Pentium III > with 768 MBytes of memory and 3 * 40 GByte > EIDE ATA 100 hard disk drives. In 1975, > that operating system would have been running > on a CPU with a speed of between 0.1 and > 0.5 MHz and the memory would have likely > been around 16 KBytes with 2.5 MByte > removable hard disk drives. Yet 29 years > later, it can still be run and I fully hope that > it will still be possible in another 29 years. > > As one example of a much more versatile > emulator, SIMH handles up to a dozen > different hardware systems. > > I realize that probably over 95% of this list > is more inclined to hardware and likes to hear > the fans and see the lights blink, but eventually > in 200 years, that hardware will no longer > exist. BUT, I fully expect that the software > will still run in some form even if multiple > emulators are required. There is just far > too much software out there that will still > be running even if just a small fraction of the > people use emulators. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 15 15:24:09 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: physical tape drive emulation? ts-11? In-Reply-To: <007301c3db7c$875c32e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200401142010.i0EKAwP21471@mwave.heeltoe.com> <0E99C1DD-4749-11D8-B586-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> <007301c3db7c$875c32e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <2834DCE5-47A1-11D8-B586-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 15, 2004, at 9:30 AM, John Allain wrote: > From: Doc Shipley >> I wanted something that's unique to my PDP-11. >> > > What kind of PDP? 11V03-L (32KW, RX02) 11/53 (1.5MB, RD51/RX33) 11/83* (TZ30, RZ26, DEQNA) 11/93 (4MB, RZ24) 11/84 (2MB, RA60, TU80, RX02) 11/84* (4MB, UDA50, DEUNA, RL02 board) * Not running yet. The 11/83 needs memory and a cab kit for the CPU (it came with the cab kit off an 11/23+), and the second 11/84 I just brought home, and don't have any storage attached to it yet. Haven't powered it up, for that matter. > ...and I'll add that I'm working on the same problem > myself, and am 99.93% of the way towards RSX-11, > and 90% the way towards RT-11. I have Qbus SCSI (should include a tested TSZ07 by week's end), TZ30, TLZ06, RX33, RX50, and a Qbus RX02 adapter (that isn't tested yet), so I can transcribe nearly anything. I *should* have a decent supply of RX02 disks in a couple of weeks. A friend has a setup that will do the LLF, and we're doing some trading. Anything I can help with or test, let me know. BTW, I have a 50-pound box of RZ26 disks from a guy who upgraded a bunch of SBBs, pretty much fee for the price of shipping and materials, if anyone needs some. They're untested. Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 15 15:37:44 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe der Mouse, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 03:58:20PM -0500: > I have trouble imagining any such scenario in which the issue of > interfacing then-modern logic to 50-year-old logic even arises. Someone will probably want to control a vacuum-tube (valve) audio amplifier from a computer at some distant point in the future. Given the increasing popularity of audio amplifiers with tubes in them, due to how natural they sound in comparison to transistorized amplifiers (e.g. when clipping occurs), this shouldn't be surprising. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Jan 15 11:59:08 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 16:53, Brad Parker wrote: > > Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > > >There are PDP-8 emulators out there already, better ones than this too. > >But I wanted one that was *mine*! (Shh, little secret, keep it under > >your hat but it's an experiment, maybe a precursor to building an 8 in > >TTL). > > I'm probably high, but I'm still dreamy from the work the XKL guys did :-) > > If you want to do it in an FPGA (well, CPLD), let me know - I'll help! I really want to do it in discrete logic. Call me crazy, enough people do as it is... Actually, I'd probably do it in 40xx CMOS, simply because I don't want to have a +5V supply the size of a MIG welder lying around. > You can get some simple cpld kits from Xilinx for $99. I'd plop some > SRAM next to one and use a JTAG compliant port to load up the memory... Might be another nice intermediate stage > (and, well, you'd obviously need a bunch of LEDS also, otherwise, what > would be the point? :-) What indeed... Now, Maplin do some nice 13mm LEDs, how big do you think we could make a panel? How about the 3" LED clusters they use as tail lights on buses round here? Make a PDP-8 6' across, like the giant MS-20 that Korg made for demo tours in the 1970s? Gordon. From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Thu Jan 15 15:31:44 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074201717.602.63.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 03:17, Damien Cymbal wrote: > All this talk about emulators has got my juices flowing again. > > I use emulators alot, and have always been fascinated with machine > emulation. > > It's always been a desire of mine to code up an emulator of my own for some > box but I've never been confident enough in either my coding chops or > understanding of really low-level machine details to think I could pull it > off (I am an application programmer by day and have done little serious > system-level and below coding). For anyone who would like an example of a very simple emulator, I've got around to 'releasing' my Educ-8 emulator. Unfortunately, it's written in VB for Windows. The Educ-8 was (is) a TTL-based 'microcomputer' which was published by Electronics Australia as a build-it-yourself project c. 1975. It is very simple, effectively an 8-bit PDP-8. There is one in the Computer History Museum (a big surprise for me when I visited.) The emulator gives you the front panel, switches and lights, but you can cheat and load programs from text (assembler) files. There is more information, and a couple of photos, at: http://www.ljw.me.uk/educ8 If you have a go at running it, please let me know how you get on. As well as downloading the emulator you'll need to get the architecture description if you want to write programs. It's possible it needs some DLLs or somesuch to get it to work, let me know and I'll try to update the download. Lawrence -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 15 15:53:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401152031.PAA08310@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <1074196977.2388.21.camel@dhcp-249027> <200401152031.PAA08310@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1074203022.2384.41.camel@dhcp-249027> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 12:29, der Mouse wrote: > > But it's not even unlikely that half a century from now our clean and > > neat binary logic hardware will be as robust and orthogonal-seeming > > as electron tube logic does today. In fact, I think this is just as > > or more likely than the former scenario. > > And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic to > modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the analogous > statement to be true 50 years from now. Yes, it's not THAT hard, and tubes are very forgiving in their way (never mind slow enough) but the knowledge is increasingly arcane is my point, and approaches used are often wildly different, and that this will occur again and again. In fact, our past is probably easier to deal with than tomorrow's. Stuff before now was often built from 'standard parts',and that's less true today, and certainly more true for the current silicon crop. Mainly my point was it's not safe to assume tomorrows past will be like today's. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jan 15 15:45:28 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers > Quothe der Mouse, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 03:58:20PM -0500: > > I have trouble imagining any such scenario in which the issue of > > interfacing then-modern logic to 50-year-old logic even arises. > > Someone will probably want to control a vacuum-tube (valve) audio > amplifier from a computer at some distant point in the future. Given > the increasing popularity of audio amplifiers with tubes in them, due > to how natural they sound in comparison to transistorized amplifiers > (e.g. when clipping occurs), this shouldn't be surprising. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > How often does a home user clip thier 300Watt amplifiers these days? People buy tube amps because they are made in small quantities and are much more expensive so it must be better $$$$$$$ From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 15 15:46:00 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <0401152146.AA05764@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > This (no more low-level tech hackers) might very well be a reality, > yes, if the current trends keep up. Scaring thought... According to the plan my girlfriend and I will start living together when she finishes high school this May. If we get married and I beget a son, I'll teach him how to be a low-level tech hacker and a ClassicCmp-er (among many other things), so there will be at least one. Heck, if I beget a daughter I'll teach the same to HER! MS From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jan 15 15:53:20 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <0401152146.AA05764@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <005101c3dbb1$fd693250$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > This (no more low-level tech hackers) might very well be a reality, > > yes, if the current trends keep up. Scaring thought... > > According to the plan my girlfriend and I will start living together when she > finishes high school this May. If we get married and I beget a son, I'll teach > him how to be a low-level tech hacker and a ClassicCmp-er (among many other > things), so there will be at least one. Heck, if I beget a daughter I'll teach > the same to HER! > > MS > Highschool? Either you are into classic computers at an early age or your one heck of a cradle robber lol. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 16:04:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: New Computer Museum in Austin In-Reply-To: <010001c3dba7$8f8a6920$dc08dd40@66067007> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Keys wrote: > Earlier this week I was told that Dell (Mr. Dell not the company) had > purchased a very large old warehouse and was going to turn it into a vintage > computer museum of his own. I was also told that he had sent out a team to > locate old hardware and stuff for him. Anyone in the Austin area know about > this? No, but if Michael Dell is in the market for old computers, I'm selling! ;) Sounds like a possibly unfounded rumor. Who did you hear this from? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 15 16:07:37 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: New Computer Museum in Austin References: Message-ID: <017101c3dbb4$0113fff0$dc08dd40@66067007> Someone doing work on the building. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: Re: New Computer Museum in Austin > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Keys wrote: > > > Earlier this week I was told that Dell (Mr. Dell not the company) had > > purchased a very large old warehouse and was going to turn it into a vintage > > computer museum of his own. I was also told that he had sent out a team to > > locate old hardware and stuff for him. Anyone in the Austin area know about > > this? > > No, but if Michael Dell is in the market for old computers, I'm selling! > > ;) > > Sounds like a possibly unfounded rumor. Who did you hear this from? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 15 16:18:19 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:28 2005 Subject: Picked a Canberra 35 Plus??? In-Reply-To: <00fa01c3dba6$dd266180$dc08dd40@66067007> References: <00fa01c3dba6$dd266180$dc08dd40@66067007> Message-ID: <1074204493.2384.66.camel@dhcp-249027> It's a multi-channel analyzer (MCA) used mainly for statistical counting in the nuclear field. Basically, they sort pulses by height (voltage, and by implication energy) into 'bin', and plot the number of pulses in each bin on the CRT. I've got a later model, scintillators and all that pointless rot. They're fun toys. If in good shape, they're worth some hundreds to $1500. It's old, 80s? but functinoally usable. I haven't kept up with the tech, check out www.oetech.com. He may buy it (for the lower end price, he tests and resells) and may be interested in other stuff line NIM and CAMAC format gear. Don't expect to get rich. I may be interested in NIM gear (modules about 8" high x 2" wide that slide into a rack chassis with a funny blue amphenol on the back) or other stuff. Radiation spectroscopy is a hobby of mine. On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 12:33, Keys wrote: > At a auction today I got a lot that had a Canberra Series 35 Plus model 3502 > something in it? I checked google and really found knowing that help figure > out what this unit is? Anyone have a glue? Thanks From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 15 16:20:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1074204634.2388.68.camel@dhcp-249027> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 13:33, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe der Mouse, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 03:58:20PM -0500: > > I have trouble imagining any such scenario in which the issue of > > interfacing then-modern logic to 50-year-old logic even arises. Repair/replacement for non-existent chips in an otherwise-complete computer... From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 16:12:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Sorry, I'm a pessimist these days :( > Thats why you should go out more, Sellam... and I know *just* the > place where we should go (first) :) I already went to to Fry's last night (this time the one in Sunnyvale) and guess what? I STILL didn't find what I needed (strike 3). > Next week, gotta go to court tonight and tomorrow :( You're lucky you haven't been deported yet :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 15 16:15:05 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <0401152215.AA05848@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Teo Zenios wrote: > Highschool? Either you are into classic computers at an early age or your > one heck of a cradle robber lol. I'm 24 now. I mastered PDP-11 assembly at age 7. By age 11 wrote my own OS for a Soviet PDP-11 clone. But then I'm Soviet, so that should explain it. We Soviets are obviously superior. :-))))))))))))) My girlfriend is 18, but she is very mature for her age. And I have absolutely no fear about letting her around my classic computers since she has the highest respect for my work. We are both pagans and these computers support our pagan work. For her to screw up the computers would be equivalent to betraying her Goddess Herself. I will teach her how to use my operating system (a classic version of VAX UNIX, other people in my group run other classics OSes too), she'll have a terminal on her desk in our command room just like I do, and the policy of no pee seas with Weendoze being allowed in the house will be entirely reasonable and acceptable to her because it's the enemy's operating system. Other people on this list keep whining about their wives conflicting with their classic computing, but I will have a female partner using these great systems together with me in our pagan work, which has brought us together in the first place. MS From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jan 15 16:17:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <0401152146.AA05764@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > According to the plan my girlfriend and I will start living together when she > finishes high school this May. If we get married and I beget a son, I'll teach > him how to be a low-level tech hacker and a ClassicCmp-er (among many other > things), so there will be at least one. Heck, if I beget a daughter I'll teach > the same to HER! You're assuming he or she WANTS to know about "that stuff". My son is now just over 1.5 years old... I'll await his reaction to me talking about tech stuff... --f From marvin at rain.org Thu Jan 15 16:18:32 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Picked a Canberra 35 Plus??? References: <00fa01c3dba6$dd266180$dc08dd40@66067007> <1074204493.2384.66.camel@dhcp-249027> Message-ID: <400711B8.BD77BA2E@rain.org> Big sigh maybe. I just tore apart a Hamner Linear Ratemeter module, model NR-10 that fits the description you gave. I do have the front panel intact if it is something you might find useful, and probably the rest of the chassis in pieces (scrap aluminum/gold.) The boards themselves were probably taken out with the trash last week. Tom Jennings wrote: > > I may be interested in NIM gear (modules about 8" high x 2" wide that > slide into a rack chassis with a funny blue amphenol on the back) or > other stuff. Radiation spectroscopy is a hobby of mine. From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jan 15 16:19:43 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I already went to to Fry's last night (this time the one in Sunnyvale) and > guess what? I STILL didn't find what I needed (strike 3). Bah, and you didnt even call me. > > Next week, gotta go to court tonight and tomorrow :( > You're lucky you haven't been deported yet :) Well, they're working on that. Having talked to evil Arabs with funny political opinions probably didn't help my case... :) --f Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jan 15 16:24:38 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <0401152215.AA05848@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I'm 24 now. I mastered PDP-11 assembly at age 7. By age 11 wrote my own OS for > a Soviet PDP-11 clone. But then I'm Soviet, so that should explain it. We > Soviets are obviously superior. :-))))))))))))) Geez, you should have lunch with Sellam, Michael.. :) --f From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 16:30:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: New Computer Museum in Austin In-Reply-To: <017101c3dbb4$0113fff0$dc08dd40@66067007> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Keys wrote: > Someone doing work on the building. Well then you need to get more details. Find out if you can get the names of the people on the scrounging team. I'll bet you can help them out with some of your spares. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 15 16:31:21 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <0401152231.AA05925@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Geez, you should have lunch with Sellam, Michael.. :) Sure! Sellam? And Fred, what happened to your plan to come to Long Beach? I want to meet you too! MS From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 15 16:13:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 (was Re: Hmm...) In-Reply-To: <009b01c3db91$d7dc8480$6401a8c0@knology.net> References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> <008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040115171330.00868290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Any idea how much is involved in the electronics. Is it all standard parts or what? I foresee a run on Atari printers! Joe At 01:03 PM 1/15/04 -0500, you wrote: > I've owned both of those printers back in the day. The print mechanism >is indeed the same. Different electronics, of course. The PR-40 is >actually a standard "Centronics" parallel interface still in use today. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:44 AM >Subject: Hmm... > > >> >> Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: >> >> >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 >> >> http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg >> >> ... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? >> >> >> ;) >> - Mike > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 15 16:20:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? In-Reply-To: <1074200457.2385.23.camel@dhcp-249027> References: <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040115172021.0080c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, I checked on the cables for the 2114 today. They're not in the cabinet :-( The guy that has it says that he thinks he put them with the manuals (Oh God!!!). But there is one cable in the cabinet. It's for the HP 2895A paper tape punch. (there's no punch with the puter). Do you need/want a pin out of that cable? Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 16:34:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I already went to to Fry's last night (this time the one in Sunnyvale) and > > guess what? I STILL didn't find what I needed (strike 3). > Bah, and you didnt even call me. It was sort of a spur of the moment thing, sorry :( > Well, they're working on that. Having talked to evil Arabs with > funny political opinions probably didn't help my case... :) Yep, I sold them the secret taping I made of our conversations for a nice sum. I was able to buy a nice PDP-11 system with what I made off of it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 15 16:34:47 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <05D77D75-47AB-11D8-A3F9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >>> But it's not even unlikely that half a century from now our clean and >>> neat binary logic hardware will be as robust and orthogonal-seeming >>> as electron tube logic does today. In fact, I think this is just as >>> or more likely than the former scenario. >> >> And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic to >> modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the analogous >> statement to be true 50 years from now. > > If there are any electronics hackers in the future. That sort of > activity > may either be banned or the knowledge lost to time and bad laws, or a > combination thereof. Or maybe we won't even be around in fifty years. > Sorry, I'm a pessimist these days :( > I suspect 50 years from now things will have turned almost full circle, The device that people will use will be small, portable, and always connected to the Internet with a huge wireless pipe, all the actual computing will take place in great mainframe like computing centers with everything carefully watched, monitored and recorded. The user will be able to access their data from any device anywhere, and it will be stored in the "internet" for them free of charge. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 15 16:34:40 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Young generation of ClassicCmp (was Re: Emulators of Classic Computers) Message-ID: <0401152234.AA05963@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > You're assuming he or she WANTS to know about "that stuff". My > son is now just over 1.5 years old... I'll await his reaction > to me talking about tech stuff... Well, with proper input from BOTH parents it would be a lot easier to raise him/her right. My gf is a witch (1st degree priestess, working on 2nd degree) and will also have a lot of "unusual" stuff to teach to our future children. They will be really fortunate to have a two-parent thoroughly pagan family. The way pagans raise their children is VERY different from the common American Judeo-Xtian way. A few months ago the Coast to Coast AM radio talk show featured two girls who were reading ancient Sanskrit and seriously getting into its teachings at ages 2 and 4. MS P.S. Anyone here a regular Coast to Coast listener? You may have heard me on the air, as I have called in a few times. Hoping to be a C2C guest some day. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 16:35:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > I'm 24 now. I mastered PDP-11 assembly at age 7. By age 11 wrote my own OS for > > a Soviet PDP-11 clone. But then I'm Soviet, so that should explain it. We > > Soviets are obviously superior. :-))))))))))))) > Geez, you should have lunch with Sellam, Michael.. :) Oh please, Fred. You're only a few years older than I am. I will say that I'm not above dating 18 year olds though ;) (In my former single days at least... :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 15 16:41:07 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: from "Johnny Billquist" at Jan 15, 2004 09:52:16 PM Message-ID: <200401152241.i0FMf7Co024905@onyx.spiritone.com> > > I managed to dig up a TZ30 and a couple TK50's last night, though I didn't > > get a chance to try it. If an Exabyte 8200 works just fine, I think I might > > try the Exabyte 8500, as I can hook it up to my PDP-11/23+ fairly easy > > (hooking an external drive up to my /73 as I mentioned would require > > rewiring the SCSI Bus). I just wish I'd thought to dig out a couple 8mm > > tapes while I was digging. > > The 8500 should work fine as well, according to documentation I have. Cool, I'll probably dig up an 8505 for the PDP-11 then (I really need a 1/2 height drive for it), and hook a 8500 back up to my VMS server. As I mentioned in the post last night, I got things working with the TZ30 and a TK50 tape, but I'd prefer to use tapes that are a lot newer, plus the TZ30 is a pain to clean. > > > BTW, what do you mean by "didn't want to work". Do you mean that it wouldn't > > work at all with your PDP-11/84 and CMD controller? The TLZ06 works just > > fine on my PDP-11/73 with Viking controller. It's just with RSTS/E ANSI > > tapes that I seem to be having a problem. > > I just tried with RSX, using BRU, DMP and INI. With DMP I tried a tape I > wrote on another machine with tar. > > I got some funny error. I can send you the RSX error log of the occasion, > if that makes you happy. Both BRU and INI will create small blocks. > > Btw, I also created small blocks on the NetBSD machine I have a DDS drive > on, and it went just fine there. No need to send the log, I was just curious, as I know someone that is using TLZ06's successfully on multiple PDP-11's. Basically all he works with is RSX11. Zane From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 15 16:58:37 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update Message-ID: Hi folks, Gave my 'new' MV I a good going over this afternoon and apart from the fact it has a pair of M7135s (MV I Datapath according to Megan's field guide) and came with a sodding great big (and heavy) Tek 4109 screen/keyboard/tablet/pointer there's nothing too exciting in there: M7551 & M8067 memory boards M7957 DZV11 mux M8639 RQDX2 to run the RD52 and RX50. This means there's still a couple of slots to add in a DEQNA should I want to get it on the network. It'll have acclimatised by tomorrow so can anyone give me the pinouts of the PSU so I can check voltages before I run the whole lot up? I'll trudge through the snow to dig out my MVII techref just in case they're in there, but if anyone knows off the top of their head that'd be great :) -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 15 17:05:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 (was Re: Hmm...) References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com><008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> <3.0.6.32.20040115171330.00868290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <014301c3dbbc$07d48a50$1a02a8c0@starship1> The 820's simple have a connector row from its custom SIO interface to the mech, so if you needed a new mech, you'd just pull it out and use it as is, no mods.... Smart move on Atari's part back in 1980 as they needed peripherals and why reinvent the wheel when all they had to do was make their custom interface and us an off the shelf printer mech. As for the 825, its a all Centronic 737 inside, all Atari did was give it a new set of Atari clothes :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:13 PM Subject: Re: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 (was Re: Hmm...) > Any idea how much is involved in the electronics. Is it all standard parts > or what? I foresee a run on Atari printers! > > Joe > > At 01:03 PM 1/15/04 -0500, you wrote: > > I've owned both of those printers back in the day. The print mechanism > >is indeed the same. Different electronics, of course. The PR-40 is > >actually a standard "Centronics" parallel interface still in use today. > > > > Paul Pennington > > Augusta, Georgia > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mike" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:44 AM > >Subject: Hmm... > > > > > >> > >> Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: > >> > >> > >> > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 > >> > >> http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg > >> > >> ... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? > >> > >> > >> ;) > >> - Mike > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 17:23:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <0401152231.AA05925@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Geez, you should have lunch with Sellam, Michael.. :) > > Sure! Sellam? Hey, anytime! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 15 17:08:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: <200401151859.NAA07646@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Jan 15, 4 01:52:54 pm Message-ID: > > > I've had problems in the past with voltage levels on RS-232. > > > One device runs -12/+12V, the other 0/+5V, and they refused to talk > > bi-directionally. Putting in a homemade level shifter (forced the > > 0/+5 to -9/+9) made it work. > > I think a sending device is required to swing at least below -3V and > above +3V for it to be RS-232 (though I may have the voltages wrong, > it's been a while - but I'm sure they're symmetric about 0). I ran I beleive you are correct. One state is a -ve voltage between -3V and -25V, the other is a +ve voltage between +3V and +25V. Anything between -3V and +3V is undefined. This means that devices using +/-12V levels meet the spec. So, actually, do +/-5V levels. But TTL levels _don't_. However, the well-known 1489 receiver chip used a lot of RS232 ports has a threshold above 0V, and will normally accept a TTL input (on the RS232 side). So some badly-designed devices output 0 and +5V (or thereabouts) and hope the device they're conencted to uses a 1489 or similar. Of course this doesn't meet the official spec, but then so few modern devices do. The problem comes when you connect such a device to a serial port which meets the RS232 spec, but which has a threshold at, or just below, 0V (I believe Apple Mac serial ports are like this). [Actually, I'll admit to having fed the output of an HCT04 (or similar) into a serial port once. My excuse it that it waas a one-off test board, and I had the schematics of the serial card it was driving (which showed a 1489 reciever). No way would I do this in a device to be used by others!) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 15 16:41:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401150123.i0F1NShx001456@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Jan 14, 4 05:23:28 pm Message-ID: > > > >If it uses standard chips (i.e. data sheets exist), then it can be > >reverse-engineered! > > > Not if the uCode proms have rotted. If the microocode PROMs are standard chips, then you can produce a schematic without needing to know their contents. You can just take the PROMs as a memory array taking in address liens (from the sequencer) and giving out data lines (to the ALU control inputs, other logic, etc). That's all the original schematic would have included IMHO. I've never seen a schematic for a microcoded system that included the contents of the PROMs. That information was provided as a separate listing (if at all). Of course if you want to copy or emulate the device then you need both the schematic _and_ the contents of the PROMs. In any case, you should have dumped the PROMs already :-). As I keep on saying, the time to start thinking about repairing a device is when it's working. That's when you dump programmable parts, when you measure voltages (like my comments on the H89 the other day -- you want to know the CRT voltages when it's working correctly, so you can see which one has changed when it malfunctions), when you record waveforms, etc. It's too late to do this when the device has failed. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 15 17:13:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401152031.PAA08310@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Jan 15, 4 03:29:44 pm Message-ID: > > > But it's not even unlikely that half a century from now our clean and > > neat binary logic hardware will be as robust and orthogonal-seeming > > as electron tube logic does today. In fact, I think this is just as > > or more likely than the former scenario. > > And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic to > modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the analogous Exactly!. > statement to be true 50 years from now. I would agree. It's not as if the TTL specs are in any way hard to get (I think I have about 10 different TTL databooks, on paper). I would be _very_ supriesed if no record of the TTL (and 5V CMOS, 3.3V CMOS, etc) logic levels exist in 50 years time. After all, I bought a reprint of a 1937 Sylvania valve (vacuum tube, electron tube, firebottle, glassfet, space channel device, call it what you will) databook a year or so ago, and I suspect people will be selling reprints of current databooks in 50 years time as historical information. Given said TTL databook, it will not be impossible to design logic level shifters. And once somebody's done it, the design can easily be shared... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 15 16:48:34 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 : dead power supply ? In-Reply-To: <1074131262.31082.131.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jan 15, 4 01:47:42 am Message-ID: > Looking at the block diagram for the PSU (pg. 4-3) I'm guessing shorting I don't have the offiical service manual to hand -- I forget where I put it, becuase it's so useless. But I do remember that you have to be careful with the block diagrams in that manual -- the one for the mainboard (Stickleback) is plain wrong -- it's the video memory that's shared between the main processor and the service processor. As an aside, the Service processor copies a routine from the single EPROM (8 bits wide) into the video memory, which appears as a 16 bit wide memory area to the 68K. The 68K then executes this program, which gets the whole thing going. > across the switched relay contacts so that it's always on would do it; > the service processor should start up and the battery should get the > appropriate charge voltage. > > Presumably power-down via the touch switch should work then too. You can't power the machine down with the relay contacts shorted -- the service processor turns off the relay to turn off the PSU. But the service processor will notice the touch switch operation, and will cause the 68K to flush buffers, etc. > Whether the machine will power up normally in this state I don't know; It will. > the block diagram implies that it should though as power-up logic for > the machine as a whole is only handled when the service processor sees > proper mains-derived regulated voltages from the PSU, not the +5V from a > healthy battery. (Invalid NVRAM at that point is another matter, but The battery must not be open-circuit, or the NVRAM will get +12V and will promptly expire (!). There's a kludge I have for fitting 3 AA primary cells and a few passives (including a zener diode to clamp that +12V down to something sane). I find it more reliable than the NiCd (did I mention that I hate rechargeable batteries?) Should I add the XXX schematics to the list of things I need to copy for you? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 15 16:50:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <4005F196.7000308@hotmail.com> from "Jim Davis" at Jan 14, 4 05:49:10 pm Message-ID: > > > >Not if the uCode proms have rotted. > > > > > > > > > I thought 2900 designs usually used fuse link proms as the eproms of the > era weren't fast enough. They do. But fusible link proms can also fail -- any IC can fail (if ICs other than EPROMs lasted for ever, we'd not be having this discussion :-)). In fact, I read somewhere that the PROMs can suffer from bit-rot where the fuses actually grow back. And of course the transistors, etc, in the address decoder and output buffers can fail. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 17:25:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <05D77D75-47AB-11D8-A3F9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > I suspect 50 years from now things will have turned almost full circle, > The device that people will use will be small, portable, and always > connected to the Internet with a huge wireless pipe, all the actual > computing will take place in great mainframe like computing centers with > everything carefully watched, monitored and recorded. The user will be > able to access their data from any device anywhere, and it will be > stored in the "internet" for them free of charge. Oh yeah? Are you willing to put money down on this? http://www.longbets.org/ :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 15 17:27:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 (was Re: Hmm...) In-Reply-To: <014301c3dbbc$07d48a50$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> <008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> <3.0.6.32.20040115171330.00868290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040115182739.00846e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:05 PM 1/15/04 -0500, Curt wrote: >The 820's simple have a connector row from its custom SIO interface to the >mech, so if you needed a new mech, you'd just pull it out and use it as is, >no mods.... Smart move on Atari's part back in 1980 as they needed >peripherals and why reinvent the wheel when all they had to do was make >their custom interface and us an off the shelf printer mech. As for the >825, its a all Centronic 737 inside, all Atari did was give it a new set of >Atari clothes :-) Thanks but I interested the insides of the SWTPC printer. I'm thinking the Atari printer mechanism might be put to a lot better use :-) Joe > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:13 PM >Subject: Re: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 (was Re: Hmm...) > > >> Any idea how much is involved in the electronics. Is it all standard parts >> or what? I foresee a run on Atari printers! >> >> Joe >> >> At 01:03 PM 1/15/04 -0500, you wrote: >> > I've owned both of those printers back in the day. The print >mechanism >> >is indeed the same. Different electronics, of course. The PR-40 is >> >actually a standard "Centronics" parallel interface still in use today. >> > >> > Paul Pennington >> > Augusta, Georgia >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Mike" >> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> > >> >Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:44 AM >> >Subject: Hmm... >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Interesting. Compare the print mechanisms: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2778365822&category=1247 >> >> >> >> http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/Ss10.jpg >> >> >> >> ... Anyone got an Atari 820 printer to trade? >> >> >> >> >> >> ;) >> >> - Mike >> > >> > > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 17:27:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 (was Re: Hmm...) In-Reply-To: <014301c3dbbc$07d48a50$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > The 820's simple have a connector row from its custom SIO interface to the > mech, so if you needed a new mech, you'd just pull it out and use it as is, > no mods.... Smart move on Atari's part back in 1980 as they needed > peripherals and why reinvent the wheel when all they had to do was make > their custom interface and us an off the shelf printer mech. As for the > 825, its a all Centronic 737 inside, all Atari did was give it a new set of > Atari clothes :-) That's pretty common, of course. Most IBM PC printers were just Epson's rebadged. That practice still goes on today as well. Apple StyleWriters are either Canon bubblejets or Epson or HP. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 15 17:34:13 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Field trip :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003601c3dbc0$15484f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> > M7270 - KD11-HA LSI 11/2 CPU > M7944 x2 - 4K RAM > M8027 - LPV11 driver. Is this a small brownish box that you can reasonably lift with two hands (or maybe even one)? If so I think I've seen one before and they are pretty nice! > Also several copies of the MicroVAX II diagnostic kit on RX50 > and RX33 floppies as well as (I think) most of VMS V5 on > RX50. I don't think there's enough disks for it to be a > complete set :-/ People keep looking for the diags and failing to find them. If these are the customer diags, they may not be that interesting, otherwise they will be the field service diags, which are the only ones that can do stuff like format an RD device from scratch. You could make yourself very popular by firing up your nearest OpenVMS box with an RX50 and having a go at BACKUP/PHYSICAL! As for the VMS V5 disks: I *think* there are either 18 or 23 in the full set. I never actually had to try an install using such a set - it must have been very painful. Once you've taken the trouble to set up a box to back up the diags, it would be a shame not to do these while you are at it :-) Probably worth recording the disk part numbers (I think they all vary slightly so each diskette is uniquely identifiable) in maybe the filename. You can probably back these up with PUTR too: I've never tried but I know that BACKUP/PHYSICAL will work (I restored some WPS disks years ago using that method). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 15 17:35:53 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <0401152335.AA06093@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Hey, anytime! Where are you located? MS From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 15 17:38:16 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003701c3dbc0$a6592650$5b01a8c0@athlon> > It'll have acclimatised by tomorrow so can anyone give me the > pinouts of the PSU so I can check voltages before I run the > whole lot up? I'll trudge through the snow to dig out my MVII > techref just in case they're in there, but if anyone knows > off the top of their head that'd be great :) I don't know the pinouts but +5V and +12V on the disk connectors would be a good start. Checking that the voltage selector switch is on 240V and not 120V is possibly a better start (not that I've ever made that mistake :-0 ) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From technobug at comcast.net Thu Jan 15 17:43:07 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Picked a Canberra 35 Plus??? In-Reply-To: <200401152231.i0FMVliS006221@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401152231.i0FMVliS006221@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <9218527A-47B4-11D8-B2E9-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> At Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:33:40 -0600 "Keys" keyed in: > At a auction today I got a lot that had a Canberra Series 35 Plus > model 3502 > something in it? [...] You are the proud owner of a Pulse Height Analyzer/Multichannel Analyzer (depending what's installed). These beasties are generally used in the nuclear physics area for spectrum analysis and timing analysis. Contact me off-line if you want more info... Claude Ceccon From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 15 18:11:07 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Field trip :) In-Reply-To: <003601c3dbc0$15484f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] > Sent: 15 January 2004 23:34 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Field trip :) > > > > M7270 - KD11-HA LSI 11/2 CPU > > M7944 x2 - 4K RAM > > M8027 - LPV11 driver. > > Is this a small brownish box that you can reasonably lift with > two hands (or maybe even one)? If so I think I've seen one > before and they are pretty nice! Nope, it's a simple cage with a 4-slot backplane with extended bolts that 'plugs in' to a bigger enclosure, which might be the brown box you're talking about - I might have just the innards. Any clues on what it actually was? > which are the only ones that can do stuff like format an > RD device from scratch. You could make yourself very popular > by firing up your nearest OpenVMS box with an RX50 and > having a go at BACKUP/PHYSICAL! Not a problem, assuming either this MVI or my MVII still work. Since I got them from a retired DEC engineer they must be field circus diags; from what I remember the customer ones were only 2 disks (format being one of them IIRC) whereas these ones are upwards of 6 or 7 disks. There's at least 6 sets of them too. I'm most interested at seeing what version of VMS is on the MV I......It's got over a meg of memory so it could be 4.5 or 4.6. 5.x wouldn't run with less than 4 would it? > As for the VMS V5 disks: I *think* there are either 18 > or 23 in the full set. I never actually had to try an > install using such a set - it must have been very painful. Looks about right, it's just the labelling that's confusing since they've got the required, optional and library sets with different 'total' numbers, ie 12/32, 13/32 etc when there's clearly not 32 disks in the set. > Once you've taken the trouble to set up a box to back up > the diags, it would be a shame not to do these while > you are at it :-) heh! I'm desperately trying to remember if the BA123 box I thought was my MVII (well, it was the company's back in the late 80s) was actually upgraded by me to be an MV 3400 or not. I know I got a BA213 (?) 'real' MV3400 cab to house the boards in its later life but I can't remember if I restored the MVII to its former glory.....grr....I know exactly where the cab is so I'll check. As an aside the MVII back then ended up being called 'fruit' because it was paired with a 3100-10 called 'nut' to form the 'fruit&nut cluster' :) The MVII was replaced with a 3100-40 (whose motherboard I've still got ) called 'dough'. You can guess the rest. > Probably worth recording the disk part numbers (I think > they all vary slightly so each diskette is uniquely > identifiable) in maybe the filename. No bother. > You can probably back these up with PUTR too: I've never > tried but I know that BACKUP/PHYSICAL will work (I > restored some WPS disks years ago using that method). I'll make it a priority once I've finished building the cupboards in the alcoves in the living room :) Bloody B&Q [1] with their warping doors....grr..... [1] UK copy of Home Depot for our US readers, though with no sign of Norm Abram :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jan 15 18:18:56 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <0401152231.AA05925@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Geez, you should have lunch with Sellam, Michael.. :) > > Sure! Sellam? > > And Fred, what happened to your plan to come to Long Beach? I want to meet you > too! I'm going there tonight. Well, to court first, and *if* they'll let me go (Sellam seems to have doubts about that.. ;-) I'll be on my way to San Gabriel (she just moved there from LBC.) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 15 18:31:28 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <05D77D75-47AB-11D8-A3F9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <05D77D75-47AB-11D8-A3F9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20040116002704.GS9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ron Hudson, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 02:34:47PM -0800: > I suspect 50 years from now things will have turned almost full > circle, The device that people will use will be small, portable, and > always connected to the Internet with a huge wireless pipe, all the Who in their right mind wants that? > actual computing will take place in great mainframe like computing > centers with everything carefully watched, monitored and > recorded. The user will be able to access their data from any device Screw that. I'd go back to using a manual typewriter and re-inking my own ribbons if necessary, if I can no longer get any of my older computers to function at that point. Perhaps we'd all better be stocking up on acid-free paper as well as computer parts for classic systems. > anywhere, and it will be stored in the "internet" for them free of > charge. Free? Hardly. There would be a price to pay somehow, whether through theft of intellectual property or taxes. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 15 18:43:04 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? Message-ID: Hi folks, Googling around for more info on NeXT Computer to flesh out my new NeXT page on Binary Dinosaurs turned up something I'd really like to get my paws on but I'll bet was consigned to the bin straight away - the 'star trek' project started by Apple to port MacOS across to Intel hardware in the early 90s. So far I've found that a team of engineers succeeded in the port, but it was canned in 1993 when Apple was moving from 68K to PowerPC processors and it was found to be faster on a 486. The same tale reminds me that I'd really like a Be Box too :) Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 15 18:50:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: AMC Multibus cards? Message-ID: <200401160050.i0G0oZns002761@spies.com> Here's the list: Monoboard Computer AMC 95/4005 2 ea. Dynamic RAM Board 0095-0017 also marked 95/1032 in ink. 32K Ram 3310 Communications Controller marked 1119 in ink. Also marked 950134 95/6110 FD Control Board. Marked 994260-901 in ink -- www.bitsavers.org/pdf/amd/multibus/ From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 15 18:57:03 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400736DF.40805@atarimuseum.com> Was this part of the whole Rhapsody and Pink project??? Curt Witchy wrote: >Hi folks, > >Googling around for more info on NeXT Computer to flesh out my new NeXT page >on Binary Dinosaurs turned up something I'd really like to get my paws on >but I'll bet was consigned to the bin straight away - the 'star trek' >project started by Apple to port MacOS across to Intel hardware in the early >90s. So far I've found that a team of engineers succeeded in the port, but >it was canned in 1993 when Apple was moving from 68K to PowerPC processors >and it was found to be faster on a 486. > >The same tale reminds me that I'd really like a Be Box too :) > >Cheers, > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From lists at microvax.org Thu Jan 15 18:59:06 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401160059.06934.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 16 Jan 2004 12:43 am, Witchy wrote: > Hi folks, > > Googling around for more info on NeXT Computer to flesh out my new NeXT > page on Binary Dinosaurs turned up something I'd really like to get my > paws on but I'll bet was consigned to the bin straight away - the 'star > trek' project started by Apple to port MacOS across to Intel hardware in > the early 90s. So far I've found that a team of engineers succeeded in > the port, but it was canned in 1993 when Apple was moving from 68K to > PowerPC processors and it was found to be faster on a 486. It never got out. I've never *ever* heard of anyone having a copy. > The same tale reminds me that I'd really like a Be Box too :) Sheesh, tell me about it. alex/melt From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 15 19:00:14 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - benchmarks References: Message-ID: <003b01c3dbcc$19cb6fc0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Mike wrote.... > I have a favor to ask. Could you give us times for Access to run these HP benchmarks. HP was kind enough to give us times for a number of other systems, but Access was not around when these numbers were published. I guess we should know which CPU type your Main is too. BTEST ran in 1 Min 37.5 sec FPTS9 ran in 1 Min 23.1 sec Main CPU is a 2100A w/32K core However.... I'm wondering how they got the timings listed in the source comments? The TIM(0) function only prints minutes. This isn't helpful. So I used a stopwatch, and timed from the "Start" message to the "Stop" message. I could have changed the code to do this, but didn't want to change anything that might effect the timing. Access supports TIM(4), but according to my pocket guide F does not. I'm not sure if "different" code in the OS (the TIM function) would have any bearing on results. Also interesting - in a stack of papers I got from my high school years ago, there was a benchmark printout that was run on two identical systems with the exception that one was 2100A (Forest Park Community College), the other was 21MX-M (St. Louis University High School). The difference wasn't HUGE, but it was pretty noticeable. I suspect the 21MX-E would be even moreso, and plus you have the option of several different types & speeds of memory. Hopefully we can find out! Anywho... that's the scoop! Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 15 19:02:08 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: HP 2114A value?? References: <002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431><002601c3db0c$98595e30$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> <3.0.6.32.20040115172021.0080c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004b01c3dbcc$5d729eb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I believe I have the pinouts in a manual. I'll check! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:20 PM Subject: RE: HP 2114A value?? > Jay, > > I checked on the cables for the 2114 today. They're not in the cabinet > :-( The guy that has it says that he thinks he put them with the manuals > (Oh God!!!). But there is one cable in the cabinet. It's for the HP 2895A > paper tape punch. (there's no punch with the puter). Do you need/want a pin > out of that cable? > > Joe > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 15 19:14:52 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: <200401160059.06934.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: meltie [mailto:lists@microvax.org] > Sent: 16 January 2004 00:59 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > the early 90s. So far I've found that a team of engineers succeeded in > > the port, but it was canned in 1993 when Apple was moving from 68K to > > PowerPC processors and it was found to be faster on a 486. > > It never got out. I've never *ever* heard of anyone having a copy. I'd never heard of it up until half an hour ago so you're well ahead of me! > > The same tale reminds me that I'd really like a Be Box too :) > > Sheesh, tell me about it. I'll just make do with my NeXT Station for now :) Sleek. Black. No burn on the screen and NeXTSTEP 2.3 installed. If anyone's got spare NeXSTEP media I'll be all ears :) I wonder if it'll compile Moz Firebird? From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jan 15 19:32:59 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.norton.antivirus> <200401140527.AAA16659@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <004901c3daa0$3565ea80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <40073F4B.4060006@tiac.net> Do you have a generic parallel interface qbus card? Or are you wanting a controller-level emulation that works with existing drivers? John Allain wrote: >Rather than dream I thought I'd just say that I'd pay >someone $100 for one of these if they did it, or $250+ >if it was a really good job. > >John A. > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 15 19:47:38 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) References: <1074201717.602.63.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <400742BA.5080304@jetnet.ab.ca> Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > > For anyone who would like an example of a very simple emulator, I've got > around to 'releasing' my Educ-8 emulator. Unfortunately, it's written > in VB for Windows. > > The Educ-8 was (is) a TTL-based 'microcomputer' which was published by > Electronics Australia as a build-it-yourself project c. 1975. It is > very simple, effectively an 8-bit PDP-8. There is one in the Computer > History Museum (a big surprise for me when I visited.) The emulator > gives you the front panel, switches and lights, but you can cheat and > load programs from text (assembler) files. > > There is more information, and a couple of photos, at: > http://www.ljw.me.uk/educ8 Blah ... all window-eze stuff. Give me a PDF any time. How about sending me some photo copies of the magizine, since I don't live in OZ. :) > > If you have a go at running it, please let me know how you get on. As > well as downloading the emulator you'll need to get the architecture > description if you want to write programs. It's possible it needs some > DLLs or somesuch to get it to work, let me know and I'll try to update > the download. > Lawrence Note you may be able to get the PCB's still from here. http://www.cia.com.au/rcsradio/index1.htm Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 20:09:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <0401152335.AA06093@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Hey, anytime! > > Where are you located? The Bay Area (the REAL Bay Area ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 15 20:32:43 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <005101c3dbb1$fd693250$0500fea9@game> References: <0401152146.AA05764@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <005101c3dbb1$fd693250$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040116022900.GT9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Teo Zenios, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 04:53:20PM -0500: > From: "Michael Sokolov" > > According to the plan my girlfriend and I will start living together > > when she finishes high school this May. If we get married and I > Highschool? Either you are into classic computers at an early age or your > one heck of a cradle robber lol. Many years ago, people would have been saying that his girlfriend was too old... an old lady of nearly eighteen. How times change. Of course, in this group, for computers, eighteen still means "just a young 'un." :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 15 20:32:43 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: > How often does a home user clip thier 300Watt amplifiers these days? Anyone that is abusing a tube amplifier with powers like this should have their mouths filled with cement. There just aren't that many tubes being made these days... > People buy tube amps because they are made in small quantities and are much > more expensive so it must be better $$$$$$$ The best tube amps are the oil cooled ones. Snake oil, actually. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jan 15 20:40:38 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:29 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: <400742BA.5080304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Cute little emulator... Two questions. 1) Can you release the source? 2) Are schematics for the original TTL implementation available? Thanks. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 15 20:51:46 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040116024122.GU9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Teo Zenios, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 04:45:28PM -0500: > How often does a home user clip thier 300Watt amplifiers these days? That depends upon whether that amp is delivering 300W RMS or 300W peak power. For most consumer-grade amps, and car audio, I'd suspect that 300W means the later. Of course, when sitting at stop lights, listen to how many people play their 1200W (snicker) car stereos at levels where they're clipping. > People buy tube amps because they are made in small quantities and are much > more expensive so it must be better $$$$$$$ Nah, they like the warm glow of the thermionic valves and the classic sound. :-) Besides, look at how many people are also building their own tube amps without spending a fortune. A small amp delivering under 15W RMS shouldn't cost much at all to build from some spare parts, and even a pair of 280 W RMS mono tube amps wouldn't cost all that much more to build than it would cost to buy a used Phase Linear 400, solid-state amp or a couple of used Crown DC-300A, solid-state, amps in excellent condition. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 15 20:47:06 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401152031.PAA08310@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic to > modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the analogous > statement to be true 50 years from now. Don't be so sure about "minimal effort". What if electricity is no longer used in computers, and the photon based computer is all that matters? What if binary becomes a thing of the past, replaced by bitstreams of probabilities? Or neural net technology finally explodes? 50 years is a long way away...and a great deal can happen. Yes, I think you still will be able to replace yesterday's and todays chips 50 years from now. Maybe it will be as easy as just letting some tools read an old databook, and out of the oven comes a nice hot chip ready to go. Maybe it will be a royal pain in the backside, as well. We can not say. What I can be certain of is that 50 years down the road, people will be finding caches of the old parts, just as today we find caches of 50 year old parts. Just like today, with a little legwork, almost anything will be able to be found. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 15 20:38:26 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401160249.VAA10778@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> How often does a home user clip thier 300Watt amplifiers these days? > Anyone that is abusing a tube amplifier with powers like this should > have their mouths filled with cement. There just aren't that many > tubes being made these days... I'm reminded of someone I met briefly - years ago - who apparently not only had an all-firebottle audio setup, but for the power output stage was using radio-station power transmitting tubes - running class A. Could heat his house with it, but it was dead flat from DC clear up into the megahertz. Sounds like overkill to me, but if that's what he wants to splurge on, well, we here on classiccmp are not in much of a position to cast asparagus :-) As for differences between tube and transistor...personally, I've never heard a side-by-side comparison, and my ear is not good enough to hear differences over a time-separated comparison. I know people who have, though, and they tell me the differences are small but real (probably below your typical few-hundred-dollar home speaker's resolution, though); absent personal experience to the contrary, I see no reason to doubt their claims. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Jan 15 20:43:16 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40074FC4.4060905@charter.net> BeBoxes are really cool. My NeXTs and my BeBox are probably my favorite boxes in my collection with the Sgi stuff running a close third. I have extra NS3.3 media for trade. I'm looking for a copy of Rhaposdy for both Intel and PPC. James Witchy wrote: >Hi folks, > >Googling around for more info on NeXT Computer to flesh out my new NeXT page >on Binary Dinosaurs turned up something I'd really like to get my paws on >but I'll bet was consigned to the bin straight away - the 'star trek' >project started by Apple to port MacOS across to Intel hardware in the early >90s. So far I've found that a team of engineers succeeded in the port, but >it was canned in 1993 when Apple was moving from 68K to PowerPC processors >and it was found to be faster on a 486. > >The same tale reminds me that I'd really like a Be Box too :) > >Cheers, > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 15 20:53:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401160301.WAA10867@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> And any decent electronics hacker can interface electron-tube logic >> to modern-day logic with fairly minimal effort. I expect the >> analogous statement to be true 50 years from now. > Don't be so sure about "minimal effort". What if electricity is no > longer used in computers, and the photon based computer is all that > matters? Then you need to output from electronic logic with LEDs, and input with phototransistors. Big schmeel. :-) I expect electricity to still be in use, even if only as a means of schlepping power around. And as long as electricity is in use, I expect electronics to be with us in some form or other. "But please remember: this is only a prediction. The truth, as always, will be far stranger." Not quite the original quote, but I think not an unjustified mutation of it. :) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jan 15 21:02:03 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401150120.i0F1K8ut001059@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040115210036.03bee1c8@mail.ubanproductions.com> >Emulex sold the rights for their disc product line to a company in >Guardian Computer www.guardian-computer.com The people at Guardian Computer seem to be complete bozos. They aren't interested in talking to me about much of anything unless I want to sign up for a maintenance agreement. Maybe if I could find someone who was on maintenance with them, I could get a foot in the door. Or better, if I could find someone sympathetic who worked for them... --tom From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 15 21:06:03 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401160249.VAA10778@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > I'm reminded of someone I met briefly - years ago - who apparently not > only had an all-firebottle audio setup, but for the power output stage > was using radio-station power transmitting tubes - running class A. > > Could heat his house with it, but it was dead flat from DC clear up > into the megahertz. Sounds like overkill to me... I know some people that have done this as well, or just used an old AM radio station modulator. I don't know about being dead flat from DC to the MHz range - that was a pretty hard trick to do in the tube era even at smaller signal levels. For those that visited the old warehouse Armory a year and a half ago with me - one of those big racks to stuff near the loading dock was a 35 kW water cooled audio amp. kW, not W. Used for testing sonar sets, I understand. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 15 21:37:23 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? Message-ID: >Googling around for more info on NeXT Computer to flesh out my new NeXT page >on Binary Dinosaurs turned up something I'd really like to get my paws on >but I'll bet was consigned to the bin straight away - the 'star trek' >project started by Apple to port MacOS across to Intel hardware in the early >90s. So far I've found that a team of engineers succeeded in the port, but >it was canned in 1993 when Apple was moving from 68K to PowerPC processors >and it was found to be faster on a 486. I've never found anything that confirms the actual existance of said OS version. Although personally I don't doubt for a moment that it did (does) exist (I've just yet to see the smoking gun). I came back to the Apple Developer world in 95 (left the Apple Developer world in the late 80's), so I wasn't in a position to know anything that the developers might have known at that time. Although I suspect that none did know anything or there would be more "real" info out there. However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of OS X for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) form. I have a copy of it, at one point I had it installed on a P-166. It ran, but that was about all it did. I'd have to pull out my CDs of it to be sure, but I think the date for it was around 1997 or 1998. There should be info on this project available out there as it was no secret, it was originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it doesn't look anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, its really an Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never personally used/seen NeXTStep, I can't verify that). -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jan 15 21:36:50 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: Message-ID: <008601c3dbe1$fa4b76c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers > > I'm reminded of someone I met briefly - years ago - who apparently not > > only had an all-firebottle audio setup, but for the power output stage > > was using radio-station power transmitting tubes - running class A. > > > > Could heat his house with it, but it was dead flat from DC clear up > > into the megahertz. Sounds like overkill to me... > > I know some people that have done this as well, or just used an old AM > radio station modulator. I don't know about being dead flat from DC to > the MHz range - that was a pretty hard trick to do in the tube era even > at smaller signal levels. > > For those that visited the old warehouse Armory a year and a half ago > with me - one of those big racks to stuff near the loading dock was a 35 > kW water cooled audio amp. kW, not W. Used for testing sonar sets, I > understand. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > In every hobby there is overkill, my 3 year old Technics SA-DX1040 works fine for me and its only 100W x 5 channels From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 15 21:40:06 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: Message-ID: <40075D16.5040106@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >>How often does a home user clip thier 300Watt amplifiers these days? Hmmm SCA-35 amp is only 100 watts AC power. So much for transistor amps saving power. -_- > > Anyone that is abusing a tube amplifier with powers like this should have > their mouths filled with cement. There just aren't that many tubes being > made these days... > Well not in the USA, try China or the USSR. >>People buy tube amps because they are made in small quantities and are much >>more expensive so it must be better $$$$$$$ > The best tube amps are the oil cooled ones. Snake oil, actually. Let me get this straight , you oil snakes to remove the Hisssss. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > Tube amps rock, with good speakers! From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 15 21:44:26 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040113154414.0396a140@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040113154414.0396a140@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <40075E1A.7000202@jcwren.com> Tom, Can you verify the pinout of the BigBoard? I'm a little suspicious of the -12, and two pins are not defined, 21 & 24. --jc Tom Uban wrote: > At 04:32 PM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >>> would like to sell to me? >>> Dwight >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel >> keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where >> ASCII data and strobe are provided when a key is pressed, and an I/O >> mode, so that keyboard commands can be clocked back in. >> >> Multi-key sequences (like F1, etc) would be converted to VT100 >> keyboard sequences. Perhaps a few others terminal types would be >> supported, such as the TVI950. >> Information like Shift would affect the keycode, but would not be >> passed along (well, I guess we could, with a mode switch. But >> normally not. >> It'd just look like the keyboard data stream from a serial terminal). >> >> --jc >> > > Yes, that would be great! It would be excellent if it were small, had > a PS/2 connector and a 26pin ribbon header with the following pinout > to mate with my BigBoard's keyboard connector. Of course it should emit > the equivalent of the AY5-1015 (if I recall correctly) parallel keyboard > chip as well... > > 1 - KB0 > 3 - KB1 > 5 - KB2 > 7 - KB3 > 9 - KB4 > 11 - KB5 > 13 - KB6 > 15 - KB7 > 17 - !KBSTB > 19,20 - +12 > 22,23 - -12 > 25,26 - +5 > 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16 - Gnd > > Waiting in anticipation! > > --tom > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 15 21:45:38 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040113154414.0396a140@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> <200401131909.LAA11598@clulw009.amd.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040113154414.0396a140@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <40075E62.6090603@jcwren.com> Oh yea, and 18 and 19. --jc Tom Uban wrote: > At 04:32 PM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> Does anyone have a parallel out keyboard that they >>> would like to sell to me? >>> Dwight >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel >> keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where >> ASCII data and strobe are provided when a key is pressed, and an I/O >> mode, so that keyboard commands can be clocked back in. >> >> Multi-key sequences (like F1, etc) would be converted to VT100 >> keyboard sequences. Perhaps a few others terminal types would be >> supported, such as the TVI950. >> Information like Shift would affect the keycode, but would not be >> passed along (well, I guess we could, with a mode switch. But >> normally not. >> It'd just look like the keyboard data stream from a serial terminal). >> >> --jc >> > > Yes, that would be great! It would be excellent if it were small, had > a PS/2 connector and a 26pin ribbon header with the following pinout > to mate with my BigBoard's keyboard connector. Of course it should emit > the equivalent of the AY5-1015 (if I recall correctly) parallel keyboard > chip as well... > > 1 - KB0 > 3 - KB1 > 5 - KB2 > 7 - KB3 > 9 - KB4 > 11 - KB5 > 13 - KB6 > 15 - KB7 > 17 - !KBSTB > 19,20 - +12 > 22,23 - -12 > 25,26 - +5 > 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16 - Gnd > > Waiting in anticipation! > > --tom > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 15 21:46:21 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <0401160346.AA06469@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Where are you located? > > The Bay Area (the REAL Bay Area ;) Well, then maybe we can meet next time I attend the annual Bay Area UFO Expo (every September), or the annual Conspiracy Con (held in the same place by the same people every May). Unless you come down sometime to South California where I am. MS From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 15 22:07:46 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> <20040116024122.GU9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <40076392.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: > > Nah, they like the warm glow of the thermionic valves and the classic > sound. :-) Besides, look at how many people are also building their > own tube amps without spending a fortune. A small amp delivering > under 15W RMS shouldn't cost much at all to build from some spare > parts, and even a pair of 280 W RMS mono tube amps wouldn't cost all > that much more to build than it would cost to buy a used Phase Linear > 400, solid-state amp or a couple of used Crown DC-300A, solid-state, > amps in excellent condition. You get what you pay for! The same goes for good quality audio. Parts for a good amp is about $600 US with more $$$ for 'vintage' parts. So far for my 4 watt/channel amp I have spent $250 on the big iron and $250 for new electronic components.The other $100 is for the box to mount the stuff on,and keep the cat's paws off the tubes. Pro-quality would be twice that price. Unlike classic computers, you can still build tube stuff out of your basement.I have not seen any U-build computer kits, that made real computers from TTL. ( IE front pannel, > 4k words of memory, real I/O. ) Hal Chamberlin I think had plans for a real computer years ago, but I read that in Kilobuad and am not quite sure. Ben. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 15 22:23:08 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: <4006CFF0.6090005@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <1074170122.5659.14.camel@pluto> <4006CFF0.6090005@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040116041244.GV9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 10:37:52AM -0700: > Why not use real transistors, I hear they are planing not to make TTL > anymore :) Good idea! That would be more fun, and more realistic, than using all of those programmable ICs. Has anyone given much serious thought to this? It seems that we could purchase large quantities of surplus small signal transistors very inexpensively. Ok, we'd have to make some changes, such as using slilcon rather than germanium... but, that should be a minor issue. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 15 22:23:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <0401160346.AA06469@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Well, then maybe we can meet next time I attend the annual Bay Area UFO > Expo (every September), or the annual Conspiracy Con (held in the same > place by the same people every May). You know how to reach me :) Same invite goes out to anyone visiting the SF/Sillycon Valley area of course. Come on by! > Unless you come down sometime to South California where I am. I may well be in San Diego in a couple weeks, but that's too far south. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 15 22:27:37 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <0401160427.AA06567@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I may well be in San Diego in a couple weeks, but that's too far south. Too far south? San Diego is exactly where I am! Escondido specifically. E-mail me if you do come down here in a couple of weeks! MS From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 15 22:46:37 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 03:25 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> I suspect 50 years from now things will have turned almost full >> circle, >> The device that people will use will be small, portable, and always >> connected to the Internet with a huge wireless pipe, all the actual >> computing will take place in great mainframe like computing centers >> with >> everything carefully watched, monitored and recorded. The user will be >> able to access their data from any device anywhere, and it will be >> stored in the "internet" for them free of charge. > > Oh yeah? Are you willing to put money down on this? Anything could happen, so no bets.. but I see "groups" who want to control the user's data and computing "experience". Who want to take what would be a sale and turn it into a rent (dont buy a disk drive, rent space.. don't buy applications, rent them - pay per use, continued cost) .net can do this. > > http://www.longbets.org/ > > :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 15 23:07:04 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <008601c3dbe1$fa4b76c0$0500fea9@game> References: <008601c3dbe1$fa4b76c0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040116050322.GW9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Teo Zenios, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 10:36:50PM -0500: > In every hobby there is overkill, my 3 year old Technics SA-DX1040 works > fine for me and its only 100W x 5 channels When driving the average home stereo loudspeaker system (e.g., not horn loaded), in order to reproduce some types of music accurately, with a suitable dynamic range, a 200W RMS per channel amplifier is not overkill. Take symphony music, for example, or perhaps a rock opera such as Tommy (it's quite a trip to listen to!). ...of course, if you're using some big horn loaded bass cabinets, midrange and hf horns with compression drivers, all the better with the big amps. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 15 22:54:56 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) References: <1074170122.5659.14.camel@pluto> <4006CFF0.6090005@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040116041244.GV9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <40076EA0.9060704@jetnet.ab.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: > Good idea! That would be more fun, and more realistic, than using all > of those programmable ICs. Has anyone given much serious thought to > this? It seems that we could purchase large quantities of surplus > small signal transistors very inexpensively. Ok, we'd have to make > some changes, such as using slilcon rather than germanium... but, that > should be a minor issue. > You can get new transistors in bulk cheap too. PMBTH10 's are 9 cents each. 1 GHZ NPN switching transistor. Beef up your classic PDP-8 with this transistor. :) From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 15 22:59:08 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040116002704.GS9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 04:27 PM, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Ron Hudson, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 02:34:47PM > -0800: >> I suspect 50 years from now things will have turned almost full >> circle, The device that people will use will be small, portable, and >> always connected to the Internet with a huge wireless pipe, all the > > Who in their right mind wants that? I sure don't, but it looks like what's comming in ".net" > >> actual computing will take place in great mainframe like computing >> centers with everything carefully watched, monitored and >> recorded. The user will be able to access their data from any device > > Screw that. I'd go back to using a manual typewriter and re-inking my > own ribbons if necessary, if I can no longer get any of my older > computers to function at that point. Perhaps we'd all better be > stocking up on acid-free paper as well as computer parts for classic > systems. > >> anywhere, and it will be stored in the "internet" for them free of >> charge. > > Free? Hardly. There would be a price to pay somehow, whether through > theft of intellectual property or taxes. indeed. both. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above > Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to > justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human > cruelty. > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jan 15 23:41:38 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Picked a Canberra 35 Plus??? In-Reply-To: <1074204493.2384.66.camel@dhcp-249027> References: <00fa01c3dba6$dd266180$dc08dd40@66067007> <1074204493.2384.66.camel@dhcp-249027> Message-ID: <20040116054138.GA24953@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 02:08:14PM -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > I may be interested in NIM gear (modules about 8" high x 2" wide that > slide into a rack chassis with a funny blue amphenol on the back) or > other stuff. Radiation spectroscopy is a hobby of mine. Funny you should mention NIM crates... we have a quantity of them as part of the AMANDA neutrino detector. No... there are no plans to get rid of them, but at least I know exactly what you are talking about. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 16-Jan-2004 05:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.8 F (-28.2 C) Windchill -31.8 F (-35.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.6 kts Grid 290 Barometer 686.3 mb (10388. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 16 00:17:24 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 15, 2004, at 2:52 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > But I did notice that someone else said that the TLZ06 will not like > DDS2 > tapes, which is what I had. The NetBSD box appearantly have a DDS2 > drive... (since it works fine) Nitpick warning! That was me, but what I actually said was that most DDS1 drives won't load a DDS2 tape. I can't remember the "official" name of the feature, but almost all 4mm drives do media-format detection, and will just spit out a tape larger than they rate for. I do recall that the DEC firmware doesn't do that, but I'm still fairly sure it won't work. Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jan 16 00:38:11 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <40076392.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> <20040116024122.GU9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <40076392.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040116063428.GX9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 09:07:46PM -0700: > You get what you pay for! The same goes for good quality audio. True (much of the time, that is)... but I don't see how someone who spends $15,000+ for a fairly low-wattage tube amp is getting his money's worth when someone can spend a fraction of that for some new Hammond audio and power transformers, plus some new or NOS tubes, a recycled chasis (heck, even the case from a PC could be used. :-) ...now, there's a good use for old '386 PCs! ), an assortment of caps, chokes and resistors from one's spare parts collection, spare wire, solder, etc. > Parts for a good amp is about $600 US with more $$$ for 'vintage' parts. > So far for my 4 watt/channel amp I have spent $250 on the big iron > and $250 for new electronic components. Wow, that seems like a lot for only 4 watts per channel. It seems that, with new and spare parts, one could build one of those for much less (it wouldn't cost me anything, due to having the transformers, tubes, etc. here for building an amp of that size, scavenged from equipment that I obtained, very inexpensively, some time ago, for parts. For not too much more than that, I was thinking that one could build a much larger tube amp, over delivering 200W RMS... ok, well... I stand corrected; actually, just the Hammond iron alone is going to cost nearly US$600, plus a few hundred dollars more for new tubes. Still, it's a heck of a lot less expensive than what people are paying for assembled tube amplifiers... still, too expensive for me at this time. Is what you're building a class-A triode amp, by the way? Other good news... not sure if anyone else has heard it, but Western Electric plans on resuming the manufacture of not only the 300B tubes here in the U.S., but possibly other types of tubes as well. :-) After resuming the manufacture of 300B tubes a while back, they had to reloate their equipment, and production stopped in 2002). That's right, audio tube production in the U.S., hopefully in 2004! For more info: http://www.westernelectric.com/whatsnew.html > The other $100 is for the > box to mount the stuff on,and keep the cat's paws off the tubes. Hmmm, wouldn't a PC chasis, some chicken-wire and some bailing twine have been far less expensive? :-) > Unlike classic computers, you can still build tube stuff out of your > basement.I have not seen any U-build computer kits, that made real For that reason, I've gone back to spending more time on my far older hobbies of electronics and audio and less time with computers, except for the applications that I need to use them for. > computers from TTL. ( IE front pannel, > 4k words of memory, real I/O. ) > Hal Chamberlin I think had plans for a real computer years ago, but I > read that in Kilobuad and am not quite sure. Somewhere around here, I think that I may have a book from the 1970's pertaining to building a computer from TTL... will have to look for it. I only recall Byte (an article by Steve Ciarcia?) having published an article about building a computer from chips, but I think it used a microprocessor... hopefully someone can prove me wrong about that. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 16 00:30:14 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Field trip :) In-Reply-To: <003601c3dbc0$15484f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003601c3dbc0$15484f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <71B14482-47ED-11D8-B522-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 15, 2004, at 5:34 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > People keep looking for the diags and failing to find them. > If these are the customer diags, they may not be that > interesting, otherwise they will be the field service diags, > which are the only ones that can do stuff like format an > RD device from scratch. You could make yourself very popular > by firing up your nearest OpenVMS box with an RX50 and > having a go at BACKUP/PHYSICAL! Ahh, would a dump of a TK50 diag tape do? They work, it's the field service diags, I've mentioned them here several times and so far one person has asked for them. I'm fairly certain I set it up as a mktape archive with script. I can look if you like. I also have the MV-I diags on RX50, but I don't have an MV-I to test them. Haven't gotten around to trying them on an MV-II. I could dump them, but I can't vouch for them. Or promise that it'll happen this month. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 16 00:48:29 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> <20040116024122.GU9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <40076392.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040116063428.GX9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <4007893D.90001@jetnet.ab.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: > For not too much more than that, I was thinking that one could build a > much larger tube amp, over delivering 200W RMS... ok, well... I stand > corrected; actually, just the Hammond iron alone is going to cost > nearly US$600, plus a few hundred dollars more for new tubes. Still, > it's a heck of a lot less expensive than what people are paying for > assembled tube amplifiers... still, too expensive for me at this time. > > Is what you're building a class-A triode amp, by the way? Nope, a class-A ultra-linear amp. :) A Push/Pull amp gives more power, but I want to try a Single Ended amp with low cost tubes. Add $300 more for low cost Direct Heated Triodes. > Other good news... not sure if anyone else has heard it, but Western > Electric plans on resuming the manufacture of not only the 300B tubes > here in the U.S., but possibly other types of tubes as well. :-) After > resuming the manufacture of 300B tubes a while back, they had to > reloate their equipment, and production stopped in 2002). That's right, > audio tube production in the U.S., hopefully in 2004! > For more info: > > http://www.westernelectric.com/whatsnew.html The last time I checked they still were rebuilding the factory. >>The other $100 is for the >>box to mount the stuff on,and keep the cat's paws off the tubes. > > > Hmmm, wouldn't a PC chasis, some chicken-wire and some bailing twine > have been far less expensive? :-) So where would I keep my chickens and how would feed my COWS hay? (grin) I don't have a PC case, and real PC case has too many holes. > Somewhere around here, I think that I may have a book from the 1970's > pertaining to building a computer from TTL... will have to look for > it. I only recall Byte (an article by Steve Ciarcia?) having > published an article about building a computer from chips, but I think > it used a microprocessor... hopefully someone can prove me wrong about > that. > I dumped Steve when his project was a PC clone. Byte went down hill from then. BTW does anybody have BYTE and other early computer mags on micro-fiche, all the local libraries have thrown them out years ago? Ben. From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Jan 16 01:01:52 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question References: Message-ID: <002e01c3dbfe$9eb27ee0$2201a8c0@finans> > Nitpick warning! > > That was me, but what I actually said was that most DDS1 drives won't > load a DDS2 tape. I can't remember the "official" name of the feature, > but almost all 4mm drives do media-format detection, and will just spit > out a tape larger than they rate for. I do recall that the DEC > firmware doesn't do that, but I'm still fairly sure it won't work. > > I've seen a similar "feature" with Exabyte Eliant 820 drives. They will spit out 8200-generated tapes, unless they are write protected. HP DDS2-drives (at least the ones I have seen) will spit out all tapes(e.g. 90 m metal) _unless_ they have media recognition. Nico From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jan 16 01:12:25 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040116063428.GX9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> <20040116024122.GU9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <40076392.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040116063428.GX9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040116070843.GY9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> ...and I forgot to mention the WE 308B tube... 250W (max) of plate dissipation, 210W class A, made right here in the U.S. ...that tube is the sort of thing that most people dream of and desire for their audio satisfaction... gonna have pleasant dreams tonight! Oohhh, just think of a pair of those babies running in class AB with suitable iron, each 13 inches of glowing delight. While it's one monster of a tube, it's got monster of a price as well, alas. Using 866A mercury rectifiers, with their purple glow, with those 308Bs would be cool! (just don't drop the 866As!) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 16 01:14:00 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <003e01c3dbb0$e47a4050$0500fea9@game> <20040116024122.GU9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <40076392.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040116063428.GX9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040116070843.GY9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <40078F38.2030801@jetnet.ab.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: > ...and I forgot to mention the WE 308B tube... 250W (max) of plate > dissipation, 210W class A, made right here in the U.S. ...that tube is > the sort of thing that most people dream of and desire for their audio > satisfaction... gonna have pleasant dreams tonight! Oohhh, just think > of a pair of those babies running in class AB with suitable iron, each > 13 inches of glowing delight. While it's one monster of a tube, it's > got monster of a price as well, alas. > > Using 866A mercury rectifiers, with their purple glow, with those > 308Bs would be cool! (just don't drop the 866As!) > Forget the wimpy tubes. :) Well here is a monster of a amp called the "OUTERLIMIT" because of its price. But it does glow nice in the dark with its 866A's. http://www.diyparadiso.com/outerlimit1.htm It is about 33 watts RMS of power out. Ben. From india_50 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 02:19:51 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: imm. help with a classic comp (NEC V20) reqd. Message-ID: <20040116081951.84507.qmail@web14205.mail.yahoo.com> --- Subramanian Iyer wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:47:59 +0000 (GMT) > From: Subramanian Iyer > Subject: help with a classic comp (NEC V20) > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > i could lay my hands on an old NEC V20(8088 i guess) > comp (a Hitachi Motherboard i guess no. HIL8) > recently. it must be atleast 15-20yrs old. it does > hv > all its components and interfacing cards along with > its bios. > here lies the problem. i don't hv any idea if it > works > or not. the pwrsupply works for sure (i checked). > the > monochrme monitor that i got with it does not work. > where should i start checking if it is working, if > the > bios, processor and other chips ar in good > condition? > i hv no idea.... > kindly help. > contact in pvt. for helping me... > Subs > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From india_50 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 02:19:51 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: imm. help with a classic comp (NEC V20) reqd. Message-ID: <20040116081951.84507.qmail@web14205.mail.yahoo.com> --- Subramanian Iyer wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:47:59 +0000 (GMT) > From: Subramanian Iyer > Subject: help with a classic comp (NEC V20) > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > i could lay my hands on an old NEC V20(8088 i guess) > comp (a Hitachi Motherboard i guess no. HIL8) > recently. it must be atleast 15-20yrs old. it does > hv > all its components and interfacing cards along with > its bios. > here lies the problem. i don't hv any idea if it > works > or not. the pwrsupply works for sure (i checked). > the > monochrme monitor that i got with it does not work. > where should i start checking if it is working, if > the > bios, processor and other chips ar in good > condition? > i hv no idea.... > kindly help. > contact in pvt. for helping me... > Subs > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 16 03:15:34 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Hmm... In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "Re: Hmm..." (Jan 15, 20:00) References: Message-ID: <10401160915.ZM5845@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 20:00, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > > The Atari 822 Thermal printer was also an Apple ][ printer as well, I think > > it was an alp's I need to doublecheck, I saw the exact same printer in a > > very old Apple catalog long ago... the Atari 825 printer was a Centronics > > 737 > ... and wasnt that 737 also known as 'GLP' - Great Little Printer, > budnled with several Tandy and Commodore (via user port) 'puters > at the time? Similar but not the same. 737 is a 739 without the graphics ROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jan 16 03:23:28 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:32:43 EST." Message-ID: <200401160923.JAA03595@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, William Donzelli sadi: > > How often does a home user clip thier 300Watt amplifiers these days? > > Anyone that is abusing a tube amplifier with powers like this should have > their mouths filled with cement. There just aren't that many tubes being > made these days... I regularly abuse my tube amp that way - but I'm a guitarist and I'm *supposed* to do that :-) You can't beat the smell of a hot ouput transformer and the sight of four 6L6s glowing red-hot! Anyway the Russians, Chinese and Indians still make the tubes, and in fact have been increasing production lately to meet demand. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 16 03:35:11 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: Gordon JC Pearce "Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)" (Jan 15, 17:49) References: <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 17:49, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 16:53, Brad Parker wrote: > > > > Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > > > > >There are PDP-8 emulators out there already, better ones than this too. > > >But I wanted one that was *mine*! (Shh, little secret, keep it under > > >your hat but it's an experiment, maybe a precursor to building an 8 in > > >TTL). > > > > I'm probably high, but I'm still dreamy from the work the XKL guys did :-) > > > > If you want to do it in an FPGA (well, CPLD), let me know - I'll help! > > I really want to do it in discrete logic. Call me crazy, enough people > do as it is... Sounds good to me... > Actually, I'd probably do it in 40xx CMOS, simply because I don't want > to have a +5V supply the size of a MIG welder lying around. :-) > What indeed... Now, Maplin do some nice 13mm LEDs, how big do you think > we could make a panel? How about the 3" LED clusters they use as tail > lights on buses round here? Make a PDP-8 6' across, like the giant > MS-20 that Korg made for demo tours in the 1970s? But then you'll need the MIG welder again :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jan 16 03:43:43 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200401160948.EAA21705@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> What indeed... Now, Maplin do some nice 13mm LEDs, how big do you >> think we could make a panel? How about the 3" LED clusters they use >> as tail lights on buses round here? Make a PDP-8 6' across, like >> the giant MS-20 that Korg made for demo tours in the 1970s? > But then you'll need the MIG welder again :-) Details, details. :) Actually, I'm a bit interested in the other direction: how _small_ do/can LEDs get? (And how much heat do they produce?) I've been pondering something, but in order for it to be workable I need to be able to cover fairly large areas with some kind of display technology at a resolution no worse than about 75dpi. Since "large areas" means dozens of square feet, too large for a CRT, all I've been able to think of are LEDs. But I don't know how practical (or more likely how drastically impractical) that is. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 16 03:45:55 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: oddball televideo problem" (Jan 15, 23:08) References: Message-ID: <10401160945.ZM5872@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 23:08, Tony Duell wrote: > I beleive you are correct. One state is a -ve voltage between -3V and > -25V, the other is a +ve voltage between +3V and +25V. Anything between > -3V and +3V is undefined. My data sheets agree with that. > [Actually, I'll admit to having fed the output of an HCT04 (or similar) > into a serial port once. My excuse it that it waas a one-off test board, > and I had the schematics of the serial card it was driving (which showed > a 1489 reciever). I once used a dual opamp in an 8-pin DIL to do that. One half was the receiver, one the driver. I knew that what I was driving wouldn't overload the opamp's output, and it kept the chip count down (it was a small microcomputer based on a Z8, on a board about 3" square). > No way would I do this in a device to be used by others!) Ditto! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jan 16 04:00:13 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulator search Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040116094709.040fe008@albert> All this talk of emulators has got me thinking. (See you knew you could smell burning dust.) Does anybody know of an emulator of the BBC Micro that supports: - Econet (networking, preferably mapped over tcp/ip so I can run multiple emulators and have them talk to each other) - Serial Port as Telnet (A couple will map to COM1 etc, but would be nice to have a telnet interface instead) - Tube/65C02 Second Processor This is so I could set up my BBS again on a PC and not have to find space for half a dozen micros and a hard disc unit the size of a 1KW UPS. (And almost as heavy) Somewhere out there in the world there is also at least one econet <--> X.400 box, (coz I saw it on eBay) which was based on a BBC B with some customer software/hardware - would be nice to get hold of the specs/software on that too - could eventually link my emulated BBCs to the Internet properly.. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 16 04:04:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: <40074FC4.4060905@charter.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: James Rice [mailto:jrice54@charter.net] > Sent: 16 January 2004 02:43 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; General@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > BeBoxes are really cool. My NeXTs and my BeBox are probably my favorite > boxes in my collection with the Sgi stuff running a close third. I have > extra NS3.3 media for trade. I'm looking for a copy of Rhaposdy for > both Intel and PPC. I wish I had space to get my NeXT off the floor! Pity I ain't got any copies of Rhapsody...oh well.... cheers w From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 16 04:03:36 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: "Witchy" "RE: Apple 'Star Trek'?" (Jan 16, 1:14) References: Message-ID: <10401161003.ZM5883@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 1:14, Witchy wrote: > I'll just make do with my NeXT Station for now :) Sleek. Black. No burn on > the screen and NeXTSTEP 2.3 installed. If anyone's got spare NeXSTEP media > I'll be all ears :) I wonder if it'll compile Moz Firebird? I'm sure I have a later version somewhere. I could burn a copy, though it might take a while to find it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 16 04:24:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: <10401161003.ZM5883@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 16 January 2004 10:04 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > On Jan 16, 1:14, Witchy wrote: > > > I'll just make do with my NeXT Station for now :) Sleek. Black. No > burn on > > the screen and NeXTSTEP 2.3 installed. If anyone's got spare NeXSTEP > media > > I'll be all ears :) I wonder if it'll compile Moz Firebird? > > I'm sure I have a later version somewhere. I could burn a copy, though > it might take a while to find it. No hurry Pete, I've got too much DIY to do in the meantime! cheers w From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jan 16 04:26:40 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)) In-Reply-To: <200401160948.EAA21705@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040116102104.04033008@pop.freeserve.net> At 04:43 16/01/2004 -0500, der Mouse wrote: >Actually, I'm a bit interested in the other direction: how _small_ >do/can LEDs get? (And how much heat do they produce?) I've been >pondering something, but in order for it to be workable I need to be >able to cover fairly large areas with some kind of display technology >at a resolution no worse than about 75dpi. Since "large areas" means >dozens of square feet, too large for a CRT, all I've been able to think >of are LEDs. But I don't know how practical (or more likely how >drastically impractical) that is. I remember building a LED matrix as a project when I was an apprentice (for Ferranti Computer Systmes). 8x7 LEDs, driven by the 8-bit parallel user-port on a BBC B. Made some nifty patterns, as well as scrolling text, etc. I still have it, but not sure I can find my software now. Anyway, a quick google turned up a mfr that does LED matrix modules. This one looks close to your dpi requirement http://www.okaya.com/HP3/image/RG160160-C.pdf (if I am translating 160 dots in a 63.5mm wide module correctly) you might have to deal with the 'margin' though. But I am sure if I find a hit that quick, there will be others about. Rob From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 16 05:30:47 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: der Mouse "Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)" (Jan 16, 4:43) References: <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200401160948.EAA21705@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <10401161130.ZM6086@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 4:43, der Mouse wrote: > >> What indeed... Now, Maplin do some nice 13mm LEDs, how big do you > >> think we could make a panel? How about the 3" LED clusters they use > >> as tail lights on buses round here? Make a PDP-8 6' across, like > >> the giant MS-20 that Korg made for demo tours in the 1970s? > > But then you'll need the MIG welder again :-) > > Details, details. :) > > Actually, I'm a bit interested in the other direction: how _small_ > do/can LEDs get? (And how much heat do they produce?) I've been > pondering something, but in order for it to be workable I need to be > able to cover fairly large areas with some kind of display technology > at a resolution no worse than about 75dpi. Since "large areas" means > dozens of square feet, too large for a CRT, all I've been able to think > of are LEDs. But I don't know how practical (or more likely how > drastically impractical) that is. Interesting... Smallest I've seen are surface mount, about 0.1" x 0.05". Not small enough for 75dpi, but perhaps you can get smaller arrays. However, even LCD displays for laptops are only about 75 dpi, and I suspect you'd get gaps between the arrays. Power? Well, rule of thumb is around 2V across an LED, at around 10mA, depending on the type and brightness you want. Suppose you used the surface mount types I've seen, that would be 10 x 20 = 200 in a square inch; at 10mA each that's 2A at 2V = 4W, or about 576W per square foot. I don't know offhand what the efficiency of an LED is, but a few of those would make a reasonable room heater :-) Of course, you could multiplex them and cut the power to maybe 10%-20% of that. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 16 05:39:52 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulator search In-Reply-To: "Rob O'Donnell" "Emulator search" (Jan 16, 10:00) References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040116094709.040fe008@albert> Message-ID: <10401161139.ZM6092@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 10:00, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > Somewhere out there in the world there is also at least one econet <--> > X.400 box, (coz I saw it on eBay) which was based on a BBC B with some > customer software/hardware - would be nice to get hold of the > specs/software on that too - could eventually link my emulated BBCs to the > Internet properly.. X.400 is a messaging (email etc) protocol; I think you've seen an Acorn X.25 Gateway. They weren't one of Acorn's success stories :-) I recall the Psychology Department at Edinburgh University had one, they intended it to link their Econet lab to the ERCC network and thence to JANET. It's a box with a BBC motherboard and some extra gubbins in it. You'd be better to run something like !Gateway on an Archimedes or RISC PC with an Econet and an Ethernet interface. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Jan 16 06:05:19 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:43:43 EST." <200401160948.EAA21705@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401161205.i0GC5Jq15235@mwave.heeltoe.com> der Mouse wrote: ... >I need to be >able to cover fairly large areas with some kind of display technology >at a resolution no worse than about 75dpi. Since "large areas" means >dozens of square feet, too large for a CRT, all I've been able to think >of are LEDs. But I don't know how practical (or more likely how >drastically impractical) that is. There is a company in the Detroit area (Daktronix) which makes large displays using leds. I saw the "panels" being made one day. So it's very practical. (and I believe there others who do this also) It seemed to turn into an interconnect and testing problem... e.g. most of the problem was one of interconnecting the panels and testing them. (personally I would have redesigned both their display and their manufacturing process, but that's another issue :-) -brad From wmaddox at pacbell.net Fri Jan 16 06:05:27 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: "Scrap" PDP-11 boards on Ebay Message-ID: <016801c3dc29$0823ce40$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> The title says "20 Old Computer Boards/23lbs Scrap Gold", but if you read the rest of the listing, it describes all of the boards and claims they are pulls from a working system. Looks like lots of Q-Bus PDP-11 stuff, including a CPU and backplane. It's up to a measly $10.50 with two days to go. Item # 2588111758 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2588111758&category=1504 It looks like there are a couple of DEC boards in this lot as well: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2217820473&category=3360 --Bill From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 23:17:44 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:30 2005 Subject: LH0080 Message-ID: <20040116051744.99581.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Could someone please give me some info on the LH0080? From what I've heard it is Sharp's Z80 CPU clone... but I need datasheets... pinouts... etc. Any help would be much appreiciated. Thanks. Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes From india_50 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 01:58:15 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: imm. help with a classic comp (NEC V20) reqd. Message-ID: <20040116075815.80777.qmail@web14205.mail.yahoo.com> --- Subramanian Iyer wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:47:59 +0000 (GMT) > From: Subramanian Iyer > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: help with a classic comp (NEC V20) > > i could lay my hands on an old NEC V20(8088 i guess) > comp (a Hitachi Motherboard i guess no. HIL8) > recently. it must be atleast 15-20yrs old. it does > hv > all its components and interfacing cards along with > its bios. > here lies the problem. i don't hv any idea if it > works > or not. the pwrsupply works for sure (i checked). > the > monochrme monitor that i got with it does not work. > where should i start checking if it is working, if > the > bios, processor and other chips ar in good > condition? > i hv no idea.... > kindly help. > > Subs > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Thu Jan 15 19:51:06 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers, Tube on motherboard In-Reply-To: <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200401152059.PAA08641@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040115213352.GR9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <4007438A.1050502@hotmail.com> R. D. Davis wrote: >Quothe der Mouse, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 03:58:20PM -0500: > > >>I have trouble imagining any such scenario in which the issue of >>interfacing then-modern logic to 50-year-old logic even arises. >> >> > >Someone will probably want to control a vacuum-tube (valve) audio >amplifier from a computer at some distant point in the future. Given >the increasing popularity of audio amplifiers with tubes in them, due >to how natural they sound in comparison to transistorized amplifiers >(e.g. when clipping occurs), this shouldn't be surprising. > > > Aopen makes a P4 motherboard that contain a tube, Here's the link: http://english.aopen.com.tw/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.htm Jim Davis. From Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com Thu Jan 15 15:57:28 2004 From: Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com (Steven_R_Hutchins@Raytheon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question Message-ID: Classic comp lister's, I have MINC-11 ( seems to be a MINC-23 in a MINC-11 box) with the following: It only has these cards inside: M8186 CPU M7506 MEM M8029 RX02 DISK CONT M7954 IEEE CONT M8043 4510 MUX Card M8012 Boot Card This was a working unit until recently when I consistantly get "checksum error KVR 00" on bootup. I suspect the M8012 card...perhaps Eprom bad? I have no Docs. I have been to http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/minc/minc.php and talked with Adrian Graham and he sent me to this list. any help appreciated greatly. S.R. "Hutch" Hutchins Engineering Department Raytheon Technical Services Company, LLC Norfolk, VA 23513 757-852-2134 FAX 757-852-2109 RayCommNet 7-493-2134 From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 16 06:34:42 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <008601c3dbe1$fa4b76c0$0500fea9@game> <20040116050322.GW9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001e01c3dc2d$1e133480$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers > Quothe Teo Zenios, from writings of Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 10:36:50PM -0500: > > In every hobby there is overkill, my 3 year old Technics SA-DX1040 works > > fine for me and its only 100W x 5 channels > > When driving the average home stereo loudspeaker system (e.g., not > horn loaded), in order to reproduce some types of music accurately, > with a suitable dynamic range, a 200W RMS per channel amplifier is not > overkill. Take symphony music, for example, or perhaps a rock opera > such as Tommy (it's quite a trip to listen to!). ...of course, if > you're using some big horn loaded bass cabinets, midrange and hf horns > with compression drivers, all the better with the big amps. :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > It all depends on the level you listen to, the size of the room, and the sensitivity of your speakers. I got my system jammed in my bedroom (all 6 speakers including 120watt 12" sub) and there is no way I will turn it all the way up because it would be too loud. I think sensitivity of my speakers is around 90dB (1w at 1 meter) every 3 dB down you go you need 2x the power for the same loudness. I would guess that most listening I do (background noise as I type this)would only need 10Watts. Even when watching gladiator fight seens on DVD I have never heard any clipping even when played VERY loud. Then again the sub is doing most of the hard work. Put my same setup in a much larger room and you would probably need a bit more power and a higher powered sub. Oh and yea Tommy in dts surround is very cool to listed to, but not as good as Dark Side of the Moon in dts with the stereo cranked and the door shut (you can still hear it outside in the back yard). From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jan 16 06:43:22 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Emulator search In-Reply-To: <10401161139.ZM6092@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Rob O'Donnell" <5.1.1.6.0.20040116094709.040fe008@albert> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040116124137.04493030@pop.freeserve.net> At 11:39 16/01/2004 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Jan 16, 10:00, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > > > Somewhere out there in the world there is also at least one econet ><--> > > X.400 box, (coz I saw it on eBay) which was based on a BBC B with >some > > customer software/hardware - would be nice to get hold of the > > specs/software on that too - could eventually link my emulated BBCs >to the > > Internet properly.. > >X.400 is a messaging (email etc) protocol; I think you've seen an Acorn >X.25 Gateway. They weren't one of Acorn's success stories :-) I >recall the Psychology Department at Edinburgh University had one, they >intended it to link their Econet lab to the ERCC network and thence to >JANET. It's a box with a BBC motherboard and some extra gubbins in it. > You'd be better to run something like !Gateway on an Archimedes or >RISC PC with an Econet and an Ethernet interface. That sounds about right, actually... My memory is somewhat bad. Of course if I'm emulating the BBCs and the Econet, I dare say I should be able to write something to translate directly, but doing it "right" (even if only in software) feels better somehow. From r.mueller at fz-juelich.de Thu Jan 15 08:10:46 2004 From: r.mueller at fz-juelich.de (R. Mueller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Battery connections on laptop. Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040115135544.029252d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> I just bought a somewhat older laptop, though I hope you will all forgive me if it is slightly younger than the borderline for the interests of this group (I am not sure on which side of the line it lies.) It is a Toshiba 4010CDT, which uses a Li-Ion battery, the subject of this message. I am amazed at the number of contacts between the battery and the computer (about 10) and wish to know their function. On the Internet I find nothing. On account of the short life-time of such batteries I want to install NiMH. I accept that I would have to use a separate, external charger, even removing the reserve battery fro the charging process, as the price of being able to travel with a back-up battery which would not die after two years of having it around. The problem is all those connections; I have no idea what they do and only a couple of them are needed for transfer of power to the computer. At least part of the rest must be communicating data about the state of the battery, either for the sake of charging or for warning of the soon-to-come shut-down for lack of enough power to continue. I would have to lie to the computer in such a way it thinks it is monitoring a Li-Ion battery, but to do it I need to know what the lies must say. Does anybody have a clue what the functions of these connections are? Keeping my fingers crossed, Bob From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Jan 16 09:41:06 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question Message-ID: <040116104106.25e60@splab.cas.neu.edu> If it has been sitting for a while, reseat all the chips on each board, and then reseat all the boards. You can start by minimizing the number of boards in the system, try just the boot, memory and cpu boards, and see if the error goes away or changes. Chips do go bad, but many a time it has been oxidation on the pins of the DIP that go into the socket that makes a mess. Joe Heck From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Fri Jan 16 08:59:23 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Oldest Working PC? Message-ID: >From The Register: "Intel and HP find oldest working PC" (http://www.theregister.com/content/67/34933.html) "Dutch company PHI DATA yesterday received a € 18,000 prize from Intel, HP and Dutch IT weekly Computable for still owning and operating a vintage IBM 5160 (Intel 8088) computer from 1983. PHI Data uses the IBM to test matrix printers. It is now officialy the oldest obsolete-yet-active PC in the Low Countries." "When Dell ran a contest in the USA back in 1999 for the oldest small-business PC still in use, the winner was the Altair 8800b. Still running a 1960 Digital PDP-1 to do your maths? Let us know." I suspect that a number on this list can do better. Bob _________________________________________________________________ There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 16 09:05:20 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, chris wrote: > However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a > turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of > OS X for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) > form. I have a copy of it, at one point I had it installed on a P-166. > It ran, but that was about all it did. I'd have to pull out my CDs of > it to be sure, but I think the date for it was around 1997 or 1998. > There should be info on this project available out there as it was no > secret, it was originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it > doesn't look anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, > its really an Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never > personally used/seen NeXTStep, I can't verify that). The Intel version of Rhapsody most likely has direct heritage in the NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Intel port. Around the time NeXT got out of the hardware business, they ported NEXTSTEP to Intel, Sparc, and PA-RISC. The NS3.3 install CDs come with media for all the platforms. And I know they were still supporting the Intel hardware as late as OPENSTEP 4.2. -brian. From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 16 10:07:25 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: "Scrap" PDP-11 boards on Ebay Message-ID: <200401161607.i0GG7PY2019425@spies.com> Looks like lots of Q-Bus PDP-11 stuff, including a CPU and backplane. It's up to a measly $10.50 with two days to go. Item # 2588111758 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2588111758&category=1504 -- sigh... looks like the guy ripped apart a Unibus PDP11 system. There are boards there for a Kennedy tape drive, SMD drives, and a Emulex SMD controller. From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 16 10:11:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: OT: Paging James Willing Message-ID: <200401161611.i0GGBjml019987@spies.com> It's been a few months now.. Did anyone have any luck contacting him or recovering anything they bought? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 16 08:13:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: AMC Multibus cards? In-Reply-To: <200401160050.i0G0oZns002761@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040116091311.0080be20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:50 PM 1/15/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Here's the list: > > Monoboard Computer AMC 95/4005 > 2 ea. Dynamic RAM Board 0095-0017 also marked 95/1032 in ink. 32K Ram > 3310 Communications Controller marked 1119 in ink. Also marked 950134 > 95/6110 FD Control Board. Marked 994260-901 in ink > >-- > >www.bitsavers.org/pdf/amd/multibus/ > Thanks Al! Joe From patrick at evocative.com Fri Jan 16 11:02:11 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: OT: Paging James Willing In-Reply-To: <200401161611.i0GGBjml019987@spies.com> Message-ID: > It's been a few months now.. Did anyone have any luck contacting him > or recovering anything they bought? Not yet, but I believe Sellam is actively working at contacting him right now. --Patrick From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 16 11:03:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Oldest Working PC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040116120356.00841ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I used to work for Martin Marietta's Aerospace division. When the defense work slowed to a trickle in the early 1990s and they were laying off hundreds of people I switched over to the Data Systems division. One of the jobs that I did there was to go around and inspect company PCs for unauthorized software. As part of that process we had to inventory all of the computers, SW, peripherals, etc. Based on what we found and the user requirements, MM replaced thousands of various brand and vintage PCs with new 386s. One day, I inspected an upper level manager's computer and I found an original IBM PC with either 64 or 256k of RAM and one floppy drive and no hard drive. It was an IBM model 5150 with serial number 000023!!!! We couldn't even run our virus checker and inventoring SW on it. The only thing that the manager used it for was to connect to the E-mail system (IRMA IIRC). He had DOS 2.0 IIRC and the IBM IRMA SW and that was all. We tried to upgrade him to a 386 with Windows but he was adament and refused to switch to the new system and kept his old PC. It's probably still there. Joe At 08:59 AM 1/16/04 -0600, you wrote: >>From The Register: "Intel and HP find oldest working PC" >(http://www.theregister.com/content/67/34933.html) > >"Dutch company PHI DATA yesterday received a ? 18,000 prize from Intel, HP >and Dutch IT weekly Computable for still owning and operating a vintage IBM >5160 (Intel 8088) computer from 1983. PHI Data uses the IBM to test matrix >printers. It is now officialy the oldest obsolete-yet-active PC in the Low >Countries." > >"When Dell ran a contest in the USA back in 1999 for the oldest >small-business PC still in use, the winner was the Altair 8800b. Still >running a 1960 Digital PDP-1 to do your maths? Let us know." > >I suspect that a number on this list can do better. > >Bob > >_________________________________________________________________ >There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 16 11:18:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Battery connections on laptop. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040115135544.029252d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelic h.de> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040116121833.0083acf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Some battery packs use separate leads for charging and to supply power. Also most packs (other than NiCad) have a thermistor to control the charge rate. Many also have a thermal circuit breaker. All of these require additional contacts. The Li-Ions in particular often have the circuit breaker since they are prone to exploding violently if they are improperly charged or used. In addition, some of the contacts may be paralleled with other contacts to increase the current carrying capability. You'll have to break open the pack to see exactly what they're all used for. Li-Ion, Ni-MH and most of the newer batteries have very exactly charging and use requirements. I STRONGLY recommend not switching battery types. Save yourself a lot of aggravation and replace the cells with the same type of cells. Spend your money on buying GOOD cells and not the Mexican or Chinesse made junk. I've had extremely good luck with the JAPANESE (NOT Mexican!!) made Sanyo NiCads but I can't say about the other type cells. Joe At 03:10 PM 1/15/04 +0100, you wrote: >I just bought a somewhat older laptop, though I hope you will all forgive >me if it is slightly younger than the borderline for the interests of this >group (I am not sure on which side of the line it lies.) > >It is a Toshiba 4010CDT, which uses a Li-Ion battery, the subject of this >message. I am amazed at the number of contacts between the battery and >the computer (about 10) and wish to know their function. On the Internet >I find nothing. On account of the short life-time of such batteries I >want to install NiMH. I accept that I would have to use a separate, >external charger, even removing the reserve battery fro the charging >process, as the price of being able to travel with a back-up battery which >would not die after two years of having it around. > >The problem is all those connections; I have no idea what they do and only >a couple of them are needed for transfer of power to the computer. At >least part of the rest must be communicating data about the state of the >battery, either for the sake of charging or for warning of the soon-to-come >shut-down for lack of enough power to continue. I would have to lie to >the computer in such a way it thinks it is monitoring a Li-Ion battery, but >to do it I need to know what the lies must say. Does anybody have a clue >what the functions of these connections are? > >Keeping my fingers crossed, > >Bob > > From bernd at kopriva.de Fri Jan 16 11:20:28 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 : dead power supply ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200401161728.i0GHSmiR015095@huey.classiccmp.org> My power supply is made by Europower, Model No. EP3608/09 ... ... does anyone have the same one ? I know from Tony Duell, that different power supplies from different manufacturers have been used. In my PS, there's a little addon PCB (6 pins), which has 3 transistors ... two of those are physically damaged, and one of the capacitors on that PCB has some smut (but no visible damage). Are the schematics for this PCB available ?, can anyone tell me, what transistors have been used ? Thanks alot Bernd On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:30:25 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: >> >> T >> >> I have heard there is a trick with mg-1 power supplies not working ... > >There's a trick if the machine won't power up at all... > >The power switch on the MG1 is software-controlled (!), and it runs off 5 >AA NiCd cells on the power distribution board (these also keep the RTC >running). They're charged when the machine is running, but of course if >you leave it powered-down for too long, they go flat, and you can't turn >it on agaain. > >The way round this is to connect a 9V battery (a PP3 or similar) to 2 of >the pins of one of the connectors on the power distribution board (I can >get the exact details). The machine will then power up, and you leave it >running until the NiCds are charged > >A kludge, sure, but it's better than the Torch XXX where the official >procedure is to replace the PSU assembly if the battery goes flat (!). > >-tony > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 16 11:27:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Oldest Working PC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Robert Feldman wrote: > >From The Register: "Intel and HP find oldest working PC" > (http://www.theregister.com/content/67/34933.html) > > "Dutch company PHI DATA yesterday received a ? 18,000 prize from Intel, HP > and Dutch IT weekly Computable for still owning and operating a vintage IBM > 5160 (Intel 8088) computer from 1983. PHI Data uses the IBM to test matrix > printers. It is now officialy the oldest obsolete-yet-active PC in the Low > Countries." > > "When Dell ran a contest in the USA back in 1999 for the oldest > small-business PC still in use, the winner was the Altair 8800b. Still > running a 1960 Digital PDP-1 to do your maths? Let us know." > > I suspect that a number on this list can do better. Not only on this list but everywhere. I would say thousands of companies still run computers that are 20-30 years old because there was never any need to upgrade. And I'm not just talking about embedded process control type applications either. Heck, in around 1999 I was contacted by a nursery in San Jose that was finally retiring their 1950s Burroughs accounting machine. I passed it on to the Computer History Museum where it sits today. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Jan 16 11:51:02 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Oldest Working PC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40082486.7000903@charter.net> My father has two of those in his garage. I remember visiting his office in the very late 50's and early 60's and wathing him work on them. There was Burroughs and one other It was some kind of IBM and was programmed by pegboard and punch cards. James Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Not only on this list but everywhere. I would say thousands of companies >still run computers that are 20-30 years old because there was never any >need to upgrade. And I'm not just talking about embedded process control >type applications either. > >Heck, in around 1999 I was contacted by a nursery in San Jose that was >finally retiring their 1950s Burroughs accounting machine. I passed it on >to the Computer History Museum where it sits today. > > > From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Jan 16 11:55:12 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: OT: Paging James Willing In-Reply-To: <200401161611.i0GGBjml019987@spies.com> References: <200401161611.i0GGBjml019987@spies.com> Message-ID: <.206.184.248.70.1074275712.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> > > It's been a few months now.. Did anyone have any luck contacting him > or recovering anything they bought? > I've been in touch with him. According to his last email he's "finally gotten his head above ground" so hopefully unshipped items will soon ship. I ended up sending him shipping tags to get mine on a truck. I also provided him with an email address and I've asked if I can disseminate it. If he doesn't mind I'll share it. He's only able to do web-mail from the library nowadays, though. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Fri Jan 16 12:11:07 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: .PIC image file format Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone have a description of the .PIC file format for images found on some CP/M machines? I assume the ones I am dealing with a DR Logo image files, but am not entirely sure. They are a binary format that apparently has the filename at the 0 offset. Any help appreciated. Thanks. dc From MTPro at aol.com Fri Jan 16 12:10:55 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Great BYTE magazine cover prints on eBay . . . Message-ID: <75.20bf6eff.2d39832f@aol.com> Robert Tinney, the excellent artist who painted numerous BYTE magazine covers is selling much of his work on eBay for super deals. See: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=crawford-house-collection& include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 Just thought I'd pass that along, best, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 16 12:15:52 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update part II the sequel Message-ID: Evenin' folks, OK, I've just finished (for now) trying to get a full POST out of the VAX. It needed a dummy load to powerup with no cards or devices present so I used an old suspect RD54. Voltages fine and stable so in with the CPU cards and..... it passes the CPU tests and stops at 3 on the LED. The VT220 shows '00000000 03' which I took to mean it hadn't found any memory. RUN light stays off. 'Fine,' I think, and put the 1mb memory board in. Still stops at 3, and sometimes the 'ready' button and 'drive 1 write protect' LED flash alternately. It hasn't got to accessing the RQDX2 yet, I'm making the assumption that tests 2,1 and 0 are the same as they are for most other microvaxen. Has anyone got a copy of the MV I owners guide or know if it lives on an FTP server somewhere? The backplate has the list of tests on and according to it '3' is marked as '640K??' but it stops there no matter which mem board I've got installed, and I don't believe they're both toast. I'm reluctant to borrow a 4mb board out of one of my other machines in case it gets nuked. Could be a suspect backplane I suppose. Any clues? Cheers :) -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 16 12:20:35 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Save this equipment for the dump!!! 48hrs ONLY! References: Message-ID: <036101c3dc5d$6f82d3e0$1a02a8c0@starship1> I am taking this stuff down to the dump Monday morning if someone doesn't pick it up and arrange for it to be picked up by someone local by the end of Sunday: DEC PDU Power Distribution System from a Storageworks cabinet, 220V 3 Phase connector, has 28 ports on the back for power cables. 6 BA350 Storageworks enclosures Vax 4000 BA-400 Pedestal cabinet (empty) I am in Carmel, NY 5 mins from CT off of RT84 Curt From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jan 16 12:25:16 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Great BYTE magazine cover prints on eBay . . . In-Reply-To: <75.20bf6eff.2d39832f@aol.com> Message-ID: <200401161310578.SM01048@bobdev> > Robert Tinney, the excellent artist who painted numerous BYTE magazine covers is selling much of his work on eBay for > super deals. See: I have a bunch of these which I bought many years ago; I paid A LOT more for mine. Although, I think mine are larger than these 11x14's. From bernd at kopriva.de Fri Jan 16 12:28:53 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Great BYTE magazine cover prints on eBay . . . In-Reply-To: <75.20bf6eff.2d39832f@aol.com> Message-ID: <200401161837.i0GIb7iR015869@huey.classiccmp.org> They have been offered for quite some time ... ... i think they're all great, but the only one i'm really interested in (Smalltalk balloon) never shows up :-( Bernd On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:10:55 EST, MTPro@aol.com wrote: >Robert Tinney, the excellent artist who painted numerous BYTE magazine covers >is selling much of his work on eBay for super deals. See: >http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=crawford-house-collection& >include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 > >Just thought I'd pass that along, best, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 16 12:30:43 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Save this equipment for the dump!!! 48hrs ONLY! References: <036101c3dc5d$6f82d3e0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <02f701c3dc5e$da268560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Vax 4000 BA-400 Pedestal cabinet (empty) Anybody know if a BA213 (metal part) will go in a BA400 cabinet (plastic part) with the door removed? My thinking is if both would have to fit rail-racking systems then they would be the same overall dimensions, and the outer box would fit either. John A. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 16 12:36:31 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Picture of my machine Message-ID: <200401161836.KAA14950@clulw009.amd.com> Hi For those that get IEEE's Computer magazine, there is a nice picture of my SIM-4 on page 17 of the January '04 issue. If you should ever see one of these laying around, make sure you get your hands on it. I only know of one other complete unit like this one and a couple of the lone SIM-4 boards. I'd be interested in know if anyone else on the list has one of these. I've written software to talk to the system as well as I have written an assembler, disassembler and simulator for this 4004 system. Dwight From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Jan 16 13:32:13 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Microvax III Hardware In-Reply-To: <20040114.203410.1044.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> References: <20040114.203410.1044.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <200401161432.13800.pat@computer-refuge.org> Hey, did you get the email I sent you Wednesday about this stuff? And did I "win"? I need to know so I can deside whether or not to bid on stuff that closes on ebay tonight... Thanks, Pat On Wednesday 14 January 2004 23:34, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > The following items are available for shipping plus 15%. > > With thanks to Megan's field guide: > > 2 M7620 KA650-BA Q MicroVAX III CPU (workstation > license), 90nS. > > 1 M7651-PA DRV1W-S Q General-Purpose DMA Interface > (for BA200 series) > > 1 M7164 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (1 of 2) > (QDA SDI) > > 1 M7165 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (2 of 2) > (QDA SDI) > > 2 M7168 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane colour bitmap module > > 1 M7169 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane video controller module > > 4 M7621-AV MS650-AA Q 8-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX III) > > 1 M7622-BP MS650-BA Q 16-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX III) > > 1 M7769 KFQSA-S Q Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk Interface), > BA200 series > > 1 M8634-PA IEQ11-S Q Communications Controller (IEC/IEEE) > (for BA200 series) > > 1 M3127-PA DESQA-SA/SF Q Ethernet/thinwire adapter > (DELQA+DESTA) with S-box handle > > 1 M8087-PA Q Scanner/printer to Q-bus DMA interface > > Some cables are available, ask. If I don't get any takers, the whole > lot goes > into the melter. I just don't have the place to keep them anymore. . > . . > > > Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Jan 16 13:37:27 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Microvax III Hardware In-Reply-To: <200401161432.13800.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <20040114.203410.1044.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <200401161432.13800.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200401161437.27904.pat@computer-refuge.org> Dammit, that was supposed to be offlist. Sorry for the (added) noise... Pat On Friday 16 January 2004 14:32, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Hey, did you get the email I sent you Wednesday about this stuff? > And did I "win"? I need to know so I can deside whether or not to > bid on stuff that closes on ebay tonight... > > Thanks, > > Pat > > On Wednesday 14 January 2004 23:34, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > The following items are available for shipping plus 15%. > > > > With thanks to Megan's field guide: > > > > 2 M7620 KA650-BA Q MicroVAX III CPU (workstation > > license), 90nS. > > > > 1 M7651-PA DRV1W-S Q General-Purpose DMA Interface > > (for BA200 series) > > > > 1 M7164 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (1 of 2) > > (QDA SDI) > > > > 1 M7165 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (2 of 2) > > (QDA SDI) > > > > 2 M7168 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane colour bitmap module > > > > 1 M7169 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane video controller module > > > > 4 M7621-AV MS650-AA Q 8-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX III) > > > > 1 M7622-BP MS650-BA Q 16-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX > > III) > > > > 1 M7769 KFQSA-S Q Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk > > Interface), BA200 series > > > > 1 M8634-PA IEQ11-S Q Communications Controller (IEC/IEEE) > > (for BA200 series) > > > > 1 M3127-PA DESQA-SA/SF Q Ethernet/thinwire adapter > > (DELQA+DESTA) with S-box handle > > > > 1 M8087-PA Q Scanner/printer to Q-bus DMA > > interface > > > > Some cables are available, ask. If I don't get any takers, the > > whole lot goes > > into the melter. I just don't have the place to keep them anymore. > > . . . > > > > > > Jeff > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rcini at optonline.net Fri Jan 16 13:44:59 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Check out TechTV | Homebrew Computer Club Reunion on The Screensavers In-Reply-To: <1d7.18247897.2d37562c@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c3dc69$3a2ed390$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> I can't seem to find this channel locally on CableVision/Long Island...maybe I'm missing it somewhere. Is someone on the list planning to make an AVI or MPG of it for downloading by the rest of us? Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ladyelec@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:34 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Check out TechTV | Homebrew Computer Club Reunion on The Screensavers Click here: TechTV | Homebrew Computer Club, http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3560406,00.html Homebrew Computer Club Reunion on The Screensavers The seeds of Silicon Valley's booming tech industry may well have been planted by the now-legendary Homebrew Computer Club. Friday the 16th. , we reunite members of the Club for a look at the past, present, and future of tech. Isa From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 16 13:52:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Oldest Working PC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040116114906.S87826@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Robert Feldman wrote: > >From The Register: "Intel and HP find oldest working PC" > (http://www.theregister.com/content/67/34933.html) > "Dutch company PHI DATA yesterday received a > and Dutch IT weekly Computable for still owning and operating a vintage IBM > 5160 (Intel 8088) computer from 1983. PHI Data uses the IBM to test matrix > printers. It is now officialy the oldest obsolete-yet-active PC in the Low > Countries." 5160 is an XT. The 5150 (PC) came out in August 1981. Could ANYBODY, ANYWHERE, believe that a unit from the third year of production is THE OLDEST????????? I assume that they are so lacking in context that they aren't even considering machines other than IBM? From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jan 16 16:30:35 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Microvax III Hardware Message-ID: <20040116.143035.1500.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Pat: It's been spoken for. Thank you for your interest. Jeff On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:01 -0500 Patrick Finnegan writes: > Hey, did you get the email I sent you Wednesday about this stuff? > And > did I "win"? I need to know so I can deside whether or not to bid > on > stuff that closes on ebay tonight... > > Thanks, > > Pat > > On Wednesday 14 January 2004 23:34, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > The following items are available for shipping plus 15%. > > > > With thanks to Megan's field guide: > > > > 2 M7620 KA650-BA Q MicroVAX III CPU (workstation > > license), 90nS. > > > > 1 M7651-PA DRV1W-S Q General-Purpose DMA Interface > > (for BA200 series) > > > > 1 M7164 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (1 of > 2) > > (QDA SDI) > > > > 1 M7165 KDA50-Q Q Qbus SDI disk adapter, Q22 (2 of > 2) > > (QDA SDI) > > > > 2 M7168 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane colour bitmap module > > > > 1 M7169 VCB02, QDSS Q 4-plane video controller module > > > > 4 M7621-AV MS650-AA Q 8-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX > III) > > > > 1 M7622-BP MS650-BA Q 16-Mbyte RAM for KA650 (MicroVAX > III) > > > > 1 M7769 KFQSA-S Q Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk > Interface), > > BA200 series > > > > 1 M8634-PA IEQ11-S Q Communications Controller > (IEC/IEEE) > > (for BA200 series) > > > > 1 M3127-PA DESQA-SA/SF Q Ethernet/thinwire adapter > > (DELQA+DESTA) with S-box handle > > > > 1 M8087-PA Q Scanner/printer to Q-bus DMA > interface > > > > Some cables are available, ask. If I don't get any takers, the > whole > > lot goes > > into the melter. I just don't have the place to keep them > anymore. . > > . . > > > > > > Jeff > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 16 14:35:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update the 3rd, now being serialised in a local newspaper near you :) Message-ID: More googling shows that the MV I and the MicroPDP can be very easily interchanged since they share memory modules etc, so I dug out my 11/73 and proceeded to spend a while tinkering with RT-11 again for the first time in nearly 10 years - there were files on there I'd changed in april '94 :) Looks like the RD54 (not the one I used as a load on the VAX) is possibly fading 'cos I got some overlay errors, but anyway.... The PDP still runs fine with the M7551 memory from the VAX so I know it's not a board issue I have with the VAX. Next thing to do I suppose is 'borrow' the PDP's cab to test the complete set of VAX boards, once I verify the PSUs are the same. That's a job that needs a lot of space which I don't have so I'll have to invade the kitchen next week when everyone else is out the house and hope I don't run into problems :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rcini at optonline.net Fri Jan 16 14:42:00 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Great BYTE magazine cover prints on eBay . . . In-Reply-To: <200401161310578.SM01048@bobdev> Message-ID: <000601c3dc71$31407970$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> I have three of these; 11x14. I had them mounted and framed by the local framing place, which did a nice job. I have them hanging above my desk at home. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Lafleur Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 1:25 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Great BYTE magazine cover prints on eBay . . . > Robert Tinney, the excellent artist who painted numerous BYTE magazine covers is selling much of his work on eBay for > super deals. See: I have a bunch of these which I bought many years ago; I paid A LOT more for mine. Although, I think mine are larger than these 11x14's. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Jan 16 15:05:29 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Battery connections on laptop. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040115135544.029252d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> Message-ID: <001401c3dc74$78e81aa0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > The problem is all those connections; I have no idea what they > do and only > a couple of them are needed for transfer of power to the computer. At > least part of the rest must be communicating data about the state of the > battery, either for the sake of charging or for warning of the > soon-to-come > shut-down for lack of enough power to continue. I would have to lie to > the computer in such a way it thinks it is monitoring a Li-Ion > battery, but > to do it I need to know what the lies must say. Does anybody > have a clue > what the functions of these connections are? > Try a web search for "Smart Battery Data Specification" I'm not sure that this is what Toshiba uses, but many other laptop Li-on batteries do. Andy From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jan 16 15:12:55 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (+ACI-McFadden, Mike+ACI-) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Old stuff and schematics in Kansas City Message-ID: My old image processing lab at the university is being renovated and all of the equipment has to go. I have come across a schematic for a Kennedy 9400 tape formatter and some other devices. We used to write our own interfaces to a homegrown computer system. I may have some Fujitsu Eagle manuals. There are also many electronics catalogs from the the late 1980's, the electronics shop has to go. I'm hauling all I can get. I don't want the manuals and catalogs, but I'm not throwing them away. 2 Quadra 950's with array processors from 1993 with dual 24" image systems monitors. Graphon 225 terminal Sun IPC HDS X-terminals I'm tracking an alphaserver 2100 I'll make up a list, most of the stuff can be had for shipping costs. I want the alphaserver and manuals. Mike McFadden From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Jan 16 06:37:18 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074256062.12304.4.camel@pluto> On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 20:31, Tony Duell wrote: > > I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the bearings out. You might even > > be able to put it back together when you're done ;-) > > The problem is that the RA81 is a Winchester, and the spindle bearings > are part of the sealed HDA. Yes, you can take it apart, but without a > clean room you're not going to have a reliable drive at the end of it all. > > -tony > Ah, ok. Well, if it's broken *anyway*, you can hardly make it worse... Gordon. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Jan 16 06:43:12 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives In-Reply-To: <40073F4B.4060006@tiac.net> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040113140022.024fa330@pop3.nort on.antivirus> <200401140527.AAA16659@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <004901c3daa0$3565ea80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <40073F4B.4060006@tiac.net> Message-ID: <1074256415.12292.7.camel@pluto> On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 01:32, Bob Shannon wrote: > Do you have a generic parallel interface qbus card? Yes, don't forget that an IDE connector inside a PC is just a very odd parallel port. Just about anything with a couple of 8-bit I/O ports can be made to talk to an IDE drive. > Or are you wanting a controller-level emulation that works with existing > drivers? This would be fairly simple I suspect. You'd need some intelligence on the controller card, but a fairly simple CPU would do it (even one of the bigger PIC microcontrollers could probably stand the pace). It might not be fast though. > John Allain wrote: > > >Rather than dream I thought I'd just say that I'd pay > >someone $100 for one of these if they did it, or $250+ > >if it was a really good job. > > > >John A. > > > > > > From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Jan 16 07:03:11 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401160923.JAA03595@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200401160923.JAA03595@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <1074257615.12292.11.camel@pluto> On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 09:23, Stan Barr wrote: > I regularly abuse my tube amp that way - but I'm a guitarist and I'm > *supposed* to do that :-) You can't beat the smell of a hot ouput > transformer and the sight of four 6L6s glowing red-hot! Yup, I'm with you on that one. EL34s for me though! > Anyway the Russians, Chinese and Indians still make the tubes, and in > fact have been increasing production lately to meet demand. There are a couple of Russian companies making valves. IIRC Sovtek bought the entire Mullard plant and shipped it from the UK to Russia, so they really are *real* EL34s. I wish they'd call them ECC83s instead of 12AX7s, though ;-) Gordon. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jan 16 09:11:58 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Battery connections on laptop. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040115135544.029252d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelic h.de> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040115135544.029252d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040116100657.02452a20@mail.n.ml.org> Yes, I know some of the functions (boss had a similar Toshiba). Apparently, it not only gives battery life/charge notification and monitoring, it also has battery temperature (for what reasons, I do not know since it was grossly inaccurate most of the time). There even was a diagnostic for Windows and DOS(boot floppy) that could be run and interface with the battery to find possible run time/length, stress test, possible recharge times, etc. I only know of the utility from a Toshiba tech mentioning it when my boss had a problem. I don't even know if that is actually available to the public. It was sort of like a rudementary serial interface to a battery. -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:10 AM 1/15/2004, you wrote: >I just bought a somewhat older laptop, though I hope you will all forgive >me if it is slightly younger than the borderline for the interests of this >group (I am not sure on which side of the line it lies.) > >It is a Toshiba 4010CDT, which uses a Li-Ion battery, the subject of this >message. I am amazed at the number of contacts between the battery and >the computer (about 10) and wish to know their function. On the Internet >I find nothing. On account of the short life-time of such batteries I >want to install NiMH. I accept that I would have to use a separate, >external charger, even removing the reserve battery fro the charging >process, as the price of being able to travel with a back-up battery which >would not die after two years of having it around. > >The problem is all those connections; I have no idea what they do and >only a couple of them are needed for transfer of power to the >computer. At least part of the rest must be communicating data about the >state of the battery, either for the sake of charging or for warning of >the soon-to-come shut-down for lack of enough power to continue. I would >have to lie to the computer in such a way it thinks it is monitoring a >Li-Ion battery, but to do it I need to know what the lies must say. Does >anybody have a clue what the functions of these connections are? > >Keeping my fingers crossed, > >Bob ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jan 16 09:15:16 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040116102104.04033008@pop.freeserve.net> References: <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20040116102104.04033008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040116100241.02452df8@mail.n.ml.org> For Parallel interfaces, there are several known software packages available that I know of for LED and LCD display controllers (obviously, many more for LCD now a days including a couple free ones). I heard of a free-ware one, but I'd have to look again to find it. Most of them are Windows (bleh) or Linux based. -John Boffemmyer IV At 05:26 AM 1/16/2004, you wrote: >At 04:43 16/01/2004 -0500, der Mouse wrote: > >>Actually, I'm a bit interested in the other direction: how _small_ >>do/can LEDs get? (And how much heat do they produce?) I've been >>pondering something, but in order for it to be workable I need to be >>able to cover fairly large areas with some kind of display technology >>at a resolution no worse than about 75dpi. Since "large areas" means >>dozens of square feet, too large for a CRT, all I've been able to think >>of are LEDs. But I don't know how practical (or more likely how >>drastically impractical) that is. > >I remember building a LED matrix as a project when I was an apprentice >(for Ferranti Computer Systmes). 8x7 LEDs, driven by the 8-bit parallel >user-port on a BBC B. Made some nifty patterns, as well as scrolling >text, etc. I still have it, but not sure I can find my software now. > >Anyway, a quick google turned up a mfr that does LED matrix modules. This >one looks close to your dpi requirement >http://www.okaya.com/HP3/image/RG160160-C.pdf (if I am translating 160 >dots in a 63.5mm wide module correctly) you might have to deal with the >'margin' though. But I am sure if I find a hit that quick, there will be >others about. > > >Rob ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From lists at microvax.org Fri Jan 16 15:14:37 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: [ebay] DEC Infoserver 150 with disk and CDROM Message-ID: <200401162114.37156.lists@microvax.org> I just spotted this in the US - it's going for a single dollar at the moment. I'm not affiliated (and I wish I was because i'd have it in an instant!) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3071461252&category=11175 alex/melt From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Fri Jan 16 14:56:52 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Old stuff and schematics in Kansas City In-Reply-To: from "+ACI-McFadden, Mike+ACI-" at Jan "16, " 2004 "03:12:55" pm Message-ID: <200401162056.NAA26758@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Quadra 950s as in Apple Quadras? -- John Willis Coherent Logic Development willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 16 15:08:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Picture of my machine In-Reply-To: <200401161836.KAA14950@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040116160822.0084d540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:36 AM 1/16/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > For those that get IEEE's Computer magazine, there >is a nice picture of my SIM-4 on page 17 of the >January '04 issue. Do you have a link where us non-subscribers can see it? Joe > If you should ever see one of these laying around, >make sure you get your hands on it. I only know of >one other complete unit like this one and a couple >of the lone SIM-4 boards. > I'd be interested in know if anyone else on the list >has one of these. I've written software to talk to >the system as well as I have written an assembler, >disassembler and simulator for this 4004 system. >Dwight > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 16 20:08:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Picture of my machine In-Reply-To: <200401161836.KAA14950@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040116210822.007fe7f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:36 AM 1/16/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > For those that get IEEE's Computer magazine, there >is a nice picture of my SIM-4 on page 17 of the >January '04 issue. Do you have a link where us non-subscribers can see it? Joe > If you should ever see one of these laying around, >make sure you get your hands on it. I only know of >one other complete unit like this one and a couple >of the lone SIM-4 boards. > I'd be interested in know if anyone else on the list >has one of these. I've written software to talk to >the system as well as I have written an assembler, >disassembler and simulator for this 4004 system. >Dwight > > > From rick at rickmurphy.net Fri Jan 16 15:45:13 2004 From: rick at rickmurphy.net (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: Field trip :) In-Reply-To: <003601c3dbc0$15484f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003601c3dbc0$15484f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040116163439.01df8e78@mail.itm-inst.com> At 06:34 PM 1/15/2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: >People keep looking for the diags and failing to find them. >If these are the customer diags, they may not be that >interesting, otherwise they will be the field service diags, >which are the only ones that can do stuff like format an >RD device from scratch. You could make yourself very popular >by firing up your nearest OpenVMS box with an RX50 and >having a go at BACKUP/PHYSICAL! I didn't know these were that rare. I have the two sets of MDM floppies (one 4 disk set, one 6) and the TK50. The TK50 is definitely the FS tape and I think the floppies are as well. If there's any interest, I'll be happy to try to capture images. I'll need something to get an image of the TK50.. -Rick From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 16 16:05:29 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:31 2005 Subject: IDE-Qbus/Unibus was:Re: Old IDE hard drives Message-ID: <200401162205.i0GM5T7x011445@spies.com> It isn't a parallel port, it is a subset of the PC/AT bus, with x86 timings and a big bag-o-hacks to get DMA transfers to run a LOT faster than it was ever meant to run. Friends of mine and I have build interfaces off of an IDE connector that talk directly to 80xx peripheral chips because of the similarity in timing. The bus mastering side of IDE (esp if you're using a PCI interface) is the weird part. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jan 16 16:16:15 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Citizen 120D+ - service manual? Message-ID: <5ef6df714c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Hi, Does anyone have a service manual for the Citizen 120D+ dot-matrix printer? I'm trying to repair mine - the interface cartridge connector is totally shot and I can't ID it. It looks like a DIN41612, but it's two-row (both rows populated) with 30 pins. The printer's connector bears the text "030P2B-L14N 92-4-03". Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jan 16 16:46:30 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Hmm... Atari 820 In-Reply-To: <4006BA7E.3080205@atarimuseum.com> References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com> <4006BA7E.3080205@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <7fbbe2714c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <4006BA7E.3080205@atarimuseum.com> Curt Vendel wrote: > I've got several if you're interested, some are still brand new in > their original boxes. I might be interested, depending on postage costs. Has anyone in the UK got an Atari 820? I'd prefer one with a dead controller and a working mechanism and printhead if anyone on the list has got an 820 (or similar printer) like that. At some point, I plan to rig up some form of printing terminal - anyone got a spare impact printer mechanism (and a datasheet for it)? :) Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 16 16:49:41 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Save this equipment for the dump!!! 48hrs ONLY! In-Reply-To: <02f701c3dc5e$da268560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <036101c3dc5d$6f82d3e0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <02f701c3dc5e$da268560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040116234941.57053b7c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:30:43 -0500 "John Allain" wrote: > Anybody know if a BA213 (metal part) will go in a BA400 > cabinet (plastic part) with the door removed? I think yes. I can't say for sure, but BA400 and BA213 boxen are 19" rack mountable (== same with) and have the same height. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mcwood at t-online.de Fri Jan 16 17:06:43 2004 From: mcwood at t-online.de (marc holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? Message-ID: Hi, Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 Best Regards, Marc From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 16 17:22:18 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, marc holz wrote: > Hi, > > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 Maybe because: P/N BB-J113M-BC, RSX11S-V4.3 BIN MT:1600, 1987. is on it. Of course, is it still readable? and Do you need it badly? Might be worth a few hundred Thalers - maybe worthless... I dunno. Cheers John From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 16 17:23:03 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: from "marc holz" at Jan 17, 2004 12:06:43 AM Message-ID: <200401162323.i0GNN3iS024536@onyx.spiritone.com> > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 Because the label says that it is: 9-track Tape reel. 11", Made by Digital Equipment Corp, P/N BB-J113M-BC, RSX11S-V4.3 BIN MT:1600, 1987. Copies of RSX-11S are considerably harder to come by than copies of RSX-11M or RSX-11M+. Though if you ask me someone is a bit daring to be bidding those kind of prices for a tape from 1987 when you have no way of knowing if it still has the OS on it. Zane From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Jan 16 17:26:29 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401161826.29986.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 16 January 2004 18:06, marc holz wrote: > Hi, > > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category >=4193 Hmm, especially with no idea of whether or not the bits are still on the tape... I've got no idea. I'd not bid anything near that unless the seller guaranteed the data on it to be complete (and RSX-11). Still, an old copy of RSX-11 doesn't seem worth the $300 to me. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 16 18:11:29 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why? Message-ID: <200401170011.i0H0BTWg030333@spies.com> > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape? The bidder has more money than brains? I hope he has some dedicated system that requires this stripped-down version of RSX-11M 'cause it ain't "collectable" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 16 17:19:34 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: RA81 spin-up probs In-Reply-To: <1074256062.12304.4.camel@pluto> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Jan 16, 4 12:27:41 pm Message-ID: > Ah, ok. Well, if it's broken *anyway*, you can hardly make it worse... Wrong, you can make it considerably harder to repair properly in the future!. Bearing replacment might be practical if you have a clean room, but if somebody's already dismantled the HDA, got dust in it, and then caused a headcrash, the final repair is going to be a lot harder! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 16 17:23:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040116063428.GX9460@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jan 16, 4 01:34:28 am Message-ID: > > Unlike classic computers, you can still build tube stuff out of your > > basement.I have not seen any U-build computer kits, that made real Then it's high time somebody produced a _real_ computer kit. As in a pile of standard logic chips (no microoprocessors, no programmed devices, no FPGAs, although I will allow RAM :-)).... > > For that reason, I've gone back to spending more time on my far older > hobbies of electronics and audio and less time with computers, except Alas I knopw the feeling. I'm spending rather more time fiddling with other toys (classic cmaeras, for example) too... > for the applications that I need to use them for. > > > computers from TTL. ( IE front pannel, > 4k words of memory, real I/O. ) > > Hal Chamberlin I think had plans for a real computer years ago, but I > > read that in Kilobuad and am not quite sure. > > Somewhere around here, I think that I may have a book from the 1970's > pertaining to building a computer from TTL... will have to look for > it. I only recall Byte (an article by Steve Ciarcia?) having > published an article about building a computer from chips, but I think > it used a microprocessor... hopefully someone can prove me wrong about > that. Steve Ciarcia's bomebrew computers (he did several -- I remember an 8088 system in 5 chips, a sort-of PC compatible, a Z8 board without even thinking about it) were based on microprocessors. But I do remember a Byte article on making a homebrew CPU (from TTL). I think it was called 'EGO', and hung off a Tandy 2000. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 16 17:26:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question In-Reply-To: from "Steven_R_Hutchins@Raytheon.com" at Jan 15, 4 04:57:28 pm Message-ID: > > > > > > Classic comp lister's, > > I have MINC-11 ( seems to be a MINC-23 in a MINC-11 box) with the The field upgrade from MINC-11 to MINC-23 was basically just swapping the CPU card. Sounds like somebody (not DEC failed circus?) did this and didn't change the nameplate. > following: > It only has these cards inside: > M8186 CPU > M7506 MEM > M8029 RX02 DISK CONT > M7954 IEEE CONT > M8043 4510 MUX Card > M8012 Boot Card > > This was a working unit until recently when I consistantly get > "checksum error KVR 00" on bootup. That doesn't sound like a DEC bootstrap message. Are you sure it's coming from the MINC and not from whatever you're using as a terminal? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 16 17:29:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: oddball televideo problem In-Reply-To: <10401160945.ZM5872@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 16, 4 09:45:55 am Message-ID: > > > [Actually, I'll admit to having fed the output of an HCT04 (or > similar) > > into a serial port once. My excuse it that it waas a one-off test > board, > > and I had the schematics of the serial card it was driving (which > showed > > a 1489 reciever). > > I once used a dual opamp in an 8-pin DIL to do that. One half was the > receiver, one the driver. I knew that what I was driving wouldn't > overload the opamp's output, and it kept the chip count down (it was a > small microcomputer based on a Z8, on a board about 3" square). > I've seen op-amps used as RS232 drivers in commercial devices -- I think some of the early HP RS232 ports (for things like the 9830) used them. Probably didn't meet the spec though... One trick I don't like, but it's very common, is to feed the RS232 input into an HCT or HC gate with a 10k resistor in series, using the protection diodes of the CMOS input to clamp the signal. HP have done this as well... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 16 17:36:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Oldest Working PC? In-Reply-To: from "Robert Feldman" at Jan 16, 4 08:59:23 am Message-ID: > > >From The Register: "Intel and HP find oldest working PC"=20 > (http://www.theregister.com/content/67/34933.html) > > "Dutch company PHI DATA yesterday received a =80 18,000 prize from Intel,= > HP=20 > and Dutch IT weekly Computable for still owning and operating a vintage I= > BM=20 > 5160 (Intel 8088) computer from 1983. PHI Data uses the IBM to test matri= THat's MODERN!!! > x=20 > printers. It is now officialy the oldest obsolete-yet-active PC in the Lo= > w=20 > Countries." > > "When Dell ran a contest in the USA back in 1999 for the oldest=20 > small-business PC still in use, the winner was the Altair 8800b. Still=20 > running a 1960 Digital PDP-1 to do your maths? Let us know." > > I suspect that a number on this list can do better. Depends on what you mean by 'in use'. Many of us have systems much older than that that are still working (my oldest desktop computer is probably the HP9830 from 1973, the fact that there's a PDP8/e on my desk that's a couple of years earlier doesn't make it a desktop :-)). But it's arguable if they're 'in use'. In terms of machines still doing very useful work here (as opposed to machines that are fun to operate, repair, hack, etc), there's the PC/XT that runs the EPROM and GAL programemrs. And the TRS-80 Model 4 (non-gate-array CPU board) that I use for disk copying (it makes a better job of handling strange disk formats than any PC I've seen). Actually, the M4 emitted a cloud of smoke the other week while copying a disk (and carried on working as if nothing had happened). From the smell, I would guess a tantalum capacitor exploded, but I've not had time to pull the case to check. -tony From paulpenn at knology.net Fri Jan 16 18:27:41 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: SWTPc PR-40 & Atari 820 References: <200401150233.i0F2XcPg032484@onyx.spiritone.com><008501c3db65$54ab2cf0$52db3fd0@DOMAIN> <3.0.6.32.20040115171330.00868290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006c01c3dc90$b86c1c00$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Joe R." asked: > Any idea how much is involved in the electronics. Is it all standard parts > or what? I foresee a run on Atari printers! I don't understand the question. What is it you want to know about the electronics? The PR-40 was sold as a kit so it would be very easy to work on. I don't have a schematic, but I think it was mostly TTL with a character generator ROM. The Atari 820 had more LSI chips, as usual with Atari, and tin boxes around everything for TV interference protection. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Jan 16 17:58:00 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update part II the sequel Message-ID: <040116185800.25e89@splab.cas.neu.edu> The leds and patch panel display show 7 through 1, with zero being control passing to secondary bootstrap. DAP leds Led display on, on, on 7 microverify failed before completing the data path microsequencer test on, on, of 6 error found on DAP module on, of, on 5 Error found on MCT module on, off, off 4 undetermined error in DAP/MCT interface off, on, on 3 microverify worked as expected if bootstrapping was attempted, bad memory was found off, on, off 2 no boot device was found off, off, on 1 unable to boot from selected device off, off, off xxx control passed to secondary bootst. This from the januaryu 1984 microvax I cpu technical description. Joe Heck From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 16 18:29:43 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Picture of my machine Message-ID: <200401170029.QAA15175@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe Blinkenlights has a slightly less clear picture at: http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml Its about half way down. I'd think that IEEE may have a site but I've not looked. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > >At 10:36 AM 1/16/04 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi >> For those that get IEEE's Computer magazine, there >>is a nice picture of my SIM-4 on page 17 of the >>January '04 issue. > > Do you have a link where us non-subscribers can see it? > > Joe > >> If you should ever see one of these laying around, >>make sure you get your hands on it. I only know of >>one other complete unit like this one and a couple >>of the lone SIM-4 boards. >> I'd be interested in know if anyone else on the list >>has one of these. I've written software to talk to >>the system as well as I have written an assembler, >>disassembler and simulator for this 4004 system. >>Dwight >> >> >> > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jan 16 18:41:54 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040116183759.03bd86b0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 06:22 PM 1/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, marc holz wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 > > > Maybe because: > >P/N BB-J113M-BC, RSX11S-V4.3 BIN MT:1600, 1987. > >is on it. > > > Of course, is it still readable? and Do you need it badly? > >Might be worth a few hundred Thalers - maybe worthless... I dunno. > > > Cheers > >John Hmm, I have two DEC tapes: BB-CJ34A-DE VAX-11 RSX V1.0 1984 BB-CJ34C-BE VAX-11 RSX V2.1 1986 I wonder what they are worth? --tom From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 16 18:47:02 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jan 16, 2004 11:23:56 PM Message-ID: <20040117004702.4A85414C4DDE@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > Steve Ciarcia's bomebrew computers (he did several -- I remember an 8088 > system in 5 chips, a sort-of PC compatible, a Z8 board without even > thinking about it) were based on microprocessors. But I do remember a > Byte article on making a homebrew CPU (from TTL). I think it was called > 'EGO', and hung off a Tandy 2000. I remember that. I still have the Byte magazines the EGO appeared in. Neat CPU, made for floating point operations if I recall. -spc (Fondly remembers bytes from the mid 80s ... ) From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 16 18:51:01 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Old stuff and schematics in Kansas City References: +ADw-ADB734CCA883874CB42A97A9768B8280338C4B+AEA-exch2000.cmh.internal+AD4- Message-ID: <010201c3dc93$fb1c3960$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: ; "Mike" To: Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: Old stuff and schematics in Kansas City > My old image processing lab at the university is being renovated and all of the equipment has to go. I have come across a schematic for a Kennedy 9400 tape formatter and some other devices. We used to write our own interfaces to a homegrown computer system. I may have some Fujitsu Eagle manuals. There are also many electronics catalogs from the the late 1980's, the electronics shop has to go. I'm hauling all I can get. I don't want the manuals and catalogs, but I'm not throwing them away. > > 2 Quadra 950's with array processors from 1993 with dual 24" image systems monitors. > > Graphon 225 terminal > Sun IPC > HDS X-terminals > I'm tracking an alphaserver 2100 > > > I'll make up a list, most of the stuff can be had for shipping costs. I want the alphaserver and manuals. > > Mike McFadden > What array processors are on the Quadras? Would be interested in those and anything else Q950 related From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 16 19:04:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, marc holz wrote: > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 Because it's DEC, man! What's wrong with you!? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 16 19:06:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: <200401162323.i0GNN3iS024536@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Though if you ask me someone is a bit daring to be bidding those kind of > prices for a tape from 1987 when you have no way of knowing if it still has > the OS on it. It's only 264 Euros :) Why, I remember all the way back to last summer when it would've been 264 DOLLARS and 333 EUROS (sigh, thanks George DICKWAD bush). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tosteve at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 19:15:46 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Old stuff and schematics in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040117011546.78926.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Mike, Yes, please send me a list of you recent acquisitions! I know others who may also be interested in such treasures. Thanks- Steve. --- "+ACI-McFadden, Mike+ACI-" wrote: > My old image processing lab at the university is > being renovated and all of the equipment has to go. > I have come across a schematic for a Kennedy 9400 > tape formatter and some other devices. We used to > write our own interfaces to a homegrown computer > system. I may have some Fujitsu Eagle manuals. > There are also many electronics catalogs from the > the late 1980's, the electronics shop has to go. > I'm hauling all I can get. I don't want the manuals > and catalogs, but I'm not throwing them away. > > 2 Quadra 950's with array processors from 1993 with > dual 24+ACI- image systems monitors. > > Graphon 225 terminal > Sun IPC > HDS X-terminals > I'm tracking an alphaserver 2100 > > > I'll make up a list, most of the stuff can be had > for shipping costs. I want the alphaserver and > manuals. > > Mike McFadden > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 16 19:16:22 2004 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: References: <200401162323.i0GNN3iS024536@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <40089AF6.31677.7F34CF10@localhost> Am 16 Jan 2004 17:06 meinte Vintage Computer Festival: > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Though if you ask me someone is a bit daring to be bidding those kind of > > prices for a tape from 1987 when you have no way of knowing if it still has > > the OS on it. > It's only 264 Euros :) > Why, I remember all the way back to last summer when it would've been 264 > DOLLARS and 333 EUROS (sigh, thanks George DICKWAD bush). I realy don't know where you have a problem (BTW, plural of Euro is still Euro, or if you insist, then it's at least Eurii). The Euro is finaly back where the Mark once has been. And beside that, you should always keep the VCF exchange rate rule in mind: In Spring, for VCFe the Dollar is weak, while in Autum, the Euro goes down. Its all made that way so none of us spends to much money visiting the other shore. :)) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 16 19:23:04 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? Why not :-) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40088E78.80005@atarimuseum.com> Too funny, well I've got several 9 track tapes such as that with VMS, UCB Unix and such. Anybody who wants to throw that kind cash my way, contact me. Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, marc holz wrote: > > > >>Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? >>http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 >> >> > >Because it's DEC, man! What's wrong with you!? > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 16 19:21:39 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why? In-Reply-To: <200401170011.i0H0BTWg030333@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Jan 16, 2004 04:11:29 PM Message-ID: <200401170121.i0H1Ldme028084@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape? > > The bidder has more money than brains? > > I hope he has some dedicated system that requires this stripped-down > version of RSX-11M 'cause it ain't "collectable" > So, since you're just behind that $333 bid, what does that say :^) Zane From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Jan 16 19:48:10 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Picture of my machine In-Reply-To: <200401170029.QAA15175@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <05b301c3dc9b$f9d9ada0$947ba8c0@p933> I've got a picture up at my site from the DigiBarn open house: http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/digibarn/digibarn4004.jpg Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 4:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Picture of my machine Hi Joe Blinkenlights has a slightly less clear picture at: http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml Its about half way down. I'd think that IEEE may have a site but I've not looked. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > >At 10:36 AM 1/16/04 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi >> For those that get IEEE's Computer magazine, there >>is a nice picture of my SIM-4 on page 17 of the >>January '04 issue. > > Do you have a link where us non-subscribers can see it? > > Joe > >> If you should ever see one of these laying around, >>make sure you get your hands on it. I only know of >>one other complete unit like this one and a couple >>of the lone SIM-4 boards. >> I'd be interested in know if anyone else on the list >>has one of these. I've written software to talk to >>the system as well as I have written an assembler, >>disassembler and simulator for this 4004 system. >>Dwight >> >> >> > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jan 16 19:18:55 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040116102104.04033008@pop.freeserve.net> <10401161130.ZM6086@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200401161205.i0GC5Jq15235@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20040116102104.04033008@pop.freeserve.net> <10401161130.ZM6086@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200401161205.i0GC5Jq15235@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200401170209.VAA26029@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [Multi-reply here. Second-level quotes are me.] >> [...]: how _small_ do/can LEDs get? (And how much heat do they >> produce?) I've been pondering something, but in order for it to be >> workable I need to be able to cover fairly large areas with some >> kind of display technology at a resolution no worse than about >> 75dpi. Since "large areas" means dozens of square feet, too large >> for a CRT, all I've been able to think of are LEDs. But I don't >> know how practical (or more likely how drastically impractical) that >> is. ["Rob O'Donnell" ] > This one looks close to your dpi requirement > http://www.okaya.com/HP3/image/RG160160-C.pdf (if I am translating > 160 dots in a 63.5mm wide module correctly) 64dpi, yes, that's encouraging. [Pete Turnbull ] > Interesting... Smallest I've seen are surface mount, about 0.1" x > 0.05". Not small enough for 75dpi, but perhaps you can get smaller > arrays. However, even LCD displays for laptops are only about 75 > dpi, and I suspect you'd get gaps between the arrays. Yes...I have a feeling it'd have to be entirely custom. (It probably would anyway, given what I want to do with it. See below.) > Power? Well, rule of thumb is around 2V across an LED, at around > 10mA, depending on the type and brightness you want. [...] about > 576W per square foot. Ouch. And that's only 10dpi one way by 20dpi the other. On the other hand, those LEDs are probably intended to produce enough light for a relatively large viewing area. My plan calls for a very low total viewing area attributed to each LED. > I don't know offhand what the efficiency of an LED is, but a few of > those would make a reasonable room heater :-) Efficiency doesn't much matter. If it's sucking 500 watts, it's dumping 500 watts, and whether that comes out as heat or light makes relatively little difference - except for what little escapes into space, it all ends up as heat. > Of course, you could multiplex them and cut the power to maybe > 10%-20% of that. Maybe. See below. [Brad Parker ] > There is a company in the Detroit area (Daktronix) which makes large > displays using leds. I saw the "panels" being made one day. > So it's very practical. (and I believe there others who do this also) > It seemed to turn into an interconnect and testing problem... e.g. > most of the problem was one of interconnecting the panels and testing > them. Well, given what I want to do, interconnect is one of the issues, but I believe it should be fixable.. I suspect the panels you describe are probably at very coarse resolution, probably no finer than maybe 4dpi - most consumers of large panels don't also want fine resolution. What I really want to build, y'see, is a cellular automaton machine. Ideally, it would be little modules that abut one another and communicate neighbour cell state between modules somehow. Then add a little logic behind each LED, and clock them in parallel. Power distribution is one issue that would need attention. I believe clock distribution actually isn't much of an issue, because they don't need to be truly clocked in parallel; provided you do something like sample neighbour state on the rising edge and change state on the falling edge, clock skew across the array doesn't matter as long as there's little to no clock skew between adjacent cells. Add a few control signals and a little more logic, and you need a host interface at only one point (it wouldn't be used in normal operation anyway). Signals that go to the whole array (like control signals and clock) could be regenerated by each module, to eliminate the need for central drivers capable of driving thousands of loads. This means that no individiual pixel needs to generate much light - certainly nothing like as much as most single LEDs produce. Taken in aggregate, a square foot should be capable of (very roughly) as much light as a square foot of those panels Brad Parker mentions, and should produce no more than about as much heat, certainly not hectowatts per square foot. I don't know whether it's feasible to fabricate LEDs on the same wafer as logic gates, but if possible that seems like a promising approach to me. I'm quite sure the technology is up to it; even ten thousand cells per square inch (100dpi) is nothing, not even if you go overboard with generality and give each module 512 bits of RAM to hold the automaton definition (I would be willing to live with limiting myself to a 3x3 neighbourhood). Communication between adjacent modules would need to be worked out, but that problem I feel sure can be solved. Physical alignment is just a question of packaging. That leaves only the money. I'm certain this wouldn't be cheap. :( Ah well, but that our dreams should exceed our grasp, or what's a heaven for? (Maybe not quite what Browning wrote, but more or less the same sentiment.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 16 20:26:02 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11 disassembler Message-ID: <003f01c3dca1$40aed1b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Someone contacted me about having a PDP-11 disassembler, with source code, under the GPL license. Would folks here be interested in that? Jay West From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 16 20:36:39 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11 disassembler In-Reply-To: <003f01c3dca1$40aed1b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Jan 16, 2004 08:26:02 PM Message-ID: <200401170236.i0H2addQ029657@onyx.spiritone.com> > Someone contacted me about having a PDP-11 disassembler, with source code, > under the GPL license. Would folks here be interested in that? > > Jay West Yes. Zane From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 16 21:15:32 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: 780 troubleshooting doc Message-ID: <200401170315.i0H3FWiS023265@spies.com> thought you might find this interesting if you haven't seen it: www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/EY-2217E-SG-0001_780tshoot.pdf From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 16 21:12:07 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK Message-ID: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 16 21:26:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: pdp11 disassembler, with source, GPL license Message-ID: <003c01c3dca9$bb247be0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/MISC/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 16 21:39:38 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Jan 16, 2004 09:12:07 PM Message-ID: <200401170339.i0H3dcbO030469@onyx.spiritone.com> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > > Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" > > And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F > > Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* > Check the rest of his auctions, I was looking at the DEC boards he has listed the other day. He has no clue at reasonable prices. Check out the MINC-11. I'd be interested in knowing who he is though, as he's semi-local to me from the looks of things. Zane From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 16 22:08:33 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <4008B541.9030705@atarimuseum.com> That's just NOT a good site to see :-( Curt Jay West wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > >Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" > >And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F > >Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jan 16 22:13:23 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)) References: <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200401151653.i0FGrun07366@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1074188966.5692.32.camel@pluto> <10401160935.ZM5864@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20040116102104.04033008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <4008B663.9070803@tiac.net> I just had to replace some SMT leds, in 0402 packages. Thats quite small. Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 04:43 16/01/2004 -0500, der Mouse wrote: > >> Actually, I'm a bit interested in the other direction: how _small_ >> do/can LEDs get? (And how much heat do they produce?) I've been >> pondering something, but in order for it to be workable I need to be >> able to cover fairly large areas with some kind of display technology >> at a resolution no worse than about 75dpi. Since "large areas" means >> dozens of square feet, too large for a CRT, all I've been able to think >> of are LEDs. But I don't know how practical (or more likely how >> drastically impractical) that is. > > > I remember building a LED matrix as a project when I was an apprentice > (for Ferranti Computer Systmes). 8x7 LEDs, driven by the 8-bit > parallel user-port on a BBC B. Made some nifty patterns, as well as > scrolling text, etc. I still have it, but not sure I can find my > software now. > > Anyway, a quick google turned up a mfr that does LED matrix modules. > This one looks close to your dpi requirement > http://www.okaya.com/HP3/image/RG160160-C.pdf (if I am translating 160 > dots in a 63.5mm wide module correctly) you might have to deal with > the 'margin' though. But I am sure if I find a hit that quick, there > will be others about. > > > Rob > > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jan 16 20:58:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11 disassembler In-Reply-To: <003f01c3dca1$40aed1b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <003f01c3dca1$40aed1b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200401170413.XAA27286@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Someone contacted me about having a PDP-11 disassembler, with source > code, under the GPL license. Would folks here be interested in that? For what it may be worth, one of the tools in my own PDP-11 suite (which I have placed in the public domain) is a disassembler. It'd also be pretty easy to add a PDP11 module to my full-featured interactive disassembler, though I haven't done so. (The disassembler in the PDP-11 package is not an interactive one.) ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/ has subdirectories pdp11 and disas that contain, respectively, my PDP-11 stuff and my disassembler. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jan 16 21:36:19 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update part II the sequel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040117033619.GC320@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 06:15:52PM -0000, Witchy wrote: > I'm reluctant to > borrow a 4mb board out of one of my other machines in case it gets nuked. For test purposes, you could use a smaller Qbus memory board. When the uVAX-I was new, not everyone could afford 4MB to go in it (or a disk larger than 10MB). I think ours had 2MB, but I could be mistaken. If you have some PDP-11 Qbus memory lying about, say, 512K, that would be enought to get started. Conversely, you could test your 4MB card in a PDP-11. It's all the same before PMI. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-Jan-2004 03:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -22.8 F (-30.5 C) Windchill -36.3 F (-38 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.6 kts Grid 002 Barometer 687.3 mb (10353. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 16 23:15:27 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <20040117004702.4A85414C4DDE@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <4008C4EF.10003@jetnet.ab.ca> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > >>Steve Ciarcia's bomebrew computers (he did several -- I remember an 8088 >>system in 5 chips, a sort-of PC compatible, a Z8 board without even >>thinking about it) were based on microprocessors. But I do remember a >>Byte article on making a homebrew CPU (from TTL). I think it was called >>'EGO', and hung off a Tandy 2000. > > > I remember that. I still have the Byte magazines the EGO appeared in. > Neat CPU, made for floating point operations if I recall. > > -spc (Fondly remembers bytes from the mid 80s ... ) But it was micro programed with EPROMS. Nice idea. Ben. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 16 23:53:17 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: They're too stupid and/or greedy to care Jay. g. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Jay West wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > > Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" > > And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F > > Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* > From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Fri Jan 16 21:37:09 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074310629.2049.3.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 22:37, chris wrote: > However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a > turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of OS X > for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) form. ***Snip*** > There should > be info on this project available out there as it was no secret, it was > originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it doesn't look > anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, its really an > Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never personally used/seen > NeXTStep, I can't verify that). Well... They have Darwin (the parts under the fancy GUI) available in x86 format... Freely downloadable at http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ all the way from 10.0 to 10.3... Or is that not what you're interested in? Sorry for being Off Topic... TTFN Andy-roo From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sat Jan 17 01:03:29 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Homebrew, was RE: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002701c3dcc8$02f0a0c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> In the UK, the Amateur Computer Club newsletter published a design for a TTL processor ... think it was called the WB-1. This was in the days before the "classic" 77/68 but I think it had the same designer (Mike Lord?). Does anyone have a remaining set of the newsletters that could be scanned and made available? Andy > > Somewhere around here, I think that I may have a book from the 1970's > > pertaining to building a computer from TTL... will have to look for > > it. I only recall Byte (an article by Steve Ciarcia?) having > > published an article about building a computer from chips, but I think > > it used a microprocessor... hopefully someone can prove me wrong about > > that. > > Steve Ciarcia's bomebrew computers (he did several -- I remember an 8088 > system in 5 chips, a sort-of PC compatible, a Z8 board without even > thinking about it) were based on microprocessors. But I do remember a > Byte article on making a homebrew CPU (from TTL). I think it was called > 'EGO', and hung off a Tandy 2000. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 17 03:45:13 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11 disassembler In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "PDP-11 disassembler" (Jan 16, 20:26) References: <003f01c3dca1$40aed1b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <10401170945.ZM7108@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 20:26, Jay West wrote: > Someone contacted me about having a PDP-11 disassembler, with source code, > under the GPL license. Would folks here be interested in that? Yes, 'cuz the one I wrote years ago in BASIC, before I understood how to do such things, is slow and crap :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 17 01:29:51 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <4008B663.9070803@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20040117122912.NESH26187.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I just had to replace some SMT leds, in 0402 packages. > > Thats quite small. > > Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > > At 04:43 16/01/2004 -0500, der Mouse wrote: > > > >> Actually, I'm a bit interested in the other direction: how _small_ Snip > > Rob Wait for large format OLED. Just begun with small devices this year, last year was one or two that featured OLED. Cheers, Wizard From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 17 07:46:55 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Field trip :) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040116163439.01df8e78@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Rick Murphy > Sent: 16 January 2004 21:45 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Field trip :) > > >by firing up your nearest OpenVMS box with an RX50 and > >having a go at BACKUP/PHYSICAL! > > I didn't know these were that rare. > I have the two sets of MDM floppies (one 4 disk set, one 6) and the TK50. > The TK50 is definitely the FS tape and I think the floppies are as well. > > If there's any interest, I'll be happy to try to capture images. > I'll need something to get an image of the TK50.. I think I've got both the customer MV diags on floppy and the FS TK50 too. Perhaps it's time to see if the TZ30 in one of the VAXen works..... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sat Jan 17 08:30:09 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: Pickles & Trout IEEE 488 manual needed Message-ID: <000001c3dd06$694508a0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Anybody have a copy of the manual for the P&T 488 S100 card? I'd like to buy/borrow/download one - and I'll be happy to scan and post if others are interested. Jack From CCTalk at catcorner.org Sat Jan 17 08:31:47 2004 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: FW: Old IDE hard drives Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B8E9@mail.catcorner.org> I've been having server troubles and never saw this come accross. Anyway, I think it's a good idea for getting rid of old PC junk, rather than just tossing them in the landfill. > From: Joe Stevenson > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Sent: 1/13/2004 7:41 AM > Subject: Old IDE hard drives > Is there any interest in older IDE hard drives, 170-540MB? > I listed them on eBay, but got no response. I probably should have > posted them to the list, but I wasn't sure that was allowed, so I > didn't. Well, if no one else makes a claim, the older smaller capacity drives are usually in demand for amateur radio clubs. I have a reserve here for my local club (in northern NJ). As an incentive, most of these clubs in the US are 501(c)3 corporations. You would be able to take these as a tax deduction. Find comparables on a refurb site, save the comparable resale value from when you donate as documentation of a resonable price, and count them as donations at the end of the year. Much of this also applies to older 486 computers. A lot of the software still used on the packet backbone (where it still exists) will not run on newer machines. Of course, I am not an accountant (IANAA?), so please verify all of this, especially the comparables bit. Kelly From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 17 09:37:48 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:32 2005 Subject: why ? References: Message-ID: <002d01c3dd0f$dc766360$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 Well, if they got all the rest of a PDP system for nothing, and then never found RSX, and contacted the seller for a guarantee, then yeah, but that's a lot of ifs. I've gotten a few good systems together for free but sometimes I just gotta think of all the _time_ I would've saved If I had just paid the reseller price with one phonecall. John A. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 17 09:43:48 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: why ? References: <002d01c3dd0f$dc766360$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00de01c3dd10$b31ec7e0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 10:37 AM Subject: Re: why ? > > Why should I spend $333 for one 9-track tape ? > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779754108&category=4193 > > Well, if they got all the rest of a PDP system for > nothing, and then never found RSX, and contacted > the seller for a guarantee, then yeah, but that's a lot > of ifs. > I've gotten a few good systems together for free but > sometimes I just gotta think of all the _time_ I would've > saved If I had just paid the reseller price with one > phonecall. > > John A. > > > Sometimes the hunt is fun just in itself (unless of course the 1 part you don't have makes the rest of the system unusable). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 17 10:23:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Pickles & Trout IEEE 488 manual needed In-Reply-To: <000001c3dd06$694508a0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040117112313.007fcb90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think Bob Rief has one but I don't think he's on the list anymore. I'll try to call him and ask about it. Joe At 08:30 AM 1/17/04 -0600, you wrote: >Anybody have a copy of the manual for the P&T 488 S100 card? I'd like to >buy/borrow/download one - and I'll be happy to scan and post if others >are interested. > >Jack > > From Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de Sat Jan 17 04:12:27 2004 From: Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: LH0080 In-Reply-To: <20040116051744.99581.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Could someone please give me some info on the LH0080? From what I've > heard it is Sharp's Z80 CPU clone... but I need datasheets... pinouts... > etc. Any help would be much appreiciated. Thanks. ?!?!? Pinout, specification etc. are identical to those of a Zilog Z80. It's just a second source part. Christian From ernestls at comcast.net Fri Jan 16 21:32:12 2004 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage (grave-yard shift in the data center) In-Reply-To: <3FFF78D7.3020803@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <001201c3dcaa$7f388f30$6401a8c0@ernest> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:00 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: classiccmp outage > > No kidding, heck I rarely would allow another engineer unfamiliar with > one of my customers sites in the cage alone when I worked at Exodus (Now > Cable & Wireless) a few years back, just too many ways for people to > screw up and you just can't take ANY chances in a live production > environment. Man that was a great job, nothing beats the humming of > hundreds of machines, there cooling fans, the airconditioners whirling > away, your fingers turning blue after 12 hours in the datacenter, > occassionally some soul when come walking past and thats like your only > glimpse of human life for another couple of hours.... ahhhh the good old > DOT COM days.... Or, working the data center grave-yard shift (11pm to 9am.) Very quiet, very lonely, and the only human interaction you have is when you have to wake up one of the HVAC guys at 2:30am. Bleak. Very Bleak. Then around 8am, with morning breath and five-o'clock shadow, you shuffle your sorry ass to the kitchen for coffee, and you run into the perky young hotties fresh into work. They're looking their cutest, and you're looking your raggedy-assed and red-eyed worst. Not many dates for the grave-yard shift. I think I suffered hearing loss from working in that data center, also. 400+ Compaq rack servers, a couple dozen HP Superdomes, two ADIC robotic tape libraries, and ten or so HP400s all humming loudly under the deafening roar of the cooling fans. It was both exciting and utterly wretched. The funny part, in a sad kind of way, was that the Data Center was supposedly haunted by an unfriendly ghost. Your mind can start to play tricks on you at two in the morning. Did you just see a shadow dart behind the far Superdome? Is that a voice that you keep hearing underneath the noise of the data center? Why is the hair on your neck suddenly standing up? Why did the broom just fall over? Yes. The grave-yard shift in a haunted data center was not much fun for me, but at least I couldn't hear the foot steps of the ghosts creeping up behind me, and that's a good thing. Otherwise, I would have had to face the morning beauties with bad breath AND soiled underpants. From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jan 17 00:17:33 2004 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> I was having a discussion with a friend earlier tonight about programming, and how I've never been the least bit interested in learning how to program -I'm convinced that I have a mental block against it, or something like that. As the discussion progressed, we decided that there are two types of advanced computer users -system programmers and system administrators. That in itself is debatable but where our discussion became bogged down was when we tried to decide which user was left brain, and which was right brain. We started by agreeing that programmers are artists, while the administrators are more scientific. But then, as we talked, we decided that you could make the same arguement for each side. So, I thought I would throw the discussion out here, and see what you guys think. Assuming that there really are two types of computer users -programmers and administrators- which side is left brain thinking, and which is right brain thinking? I pulled the following off some psycho-babble website: Experimentation has shown that the two different sides, or hemispheres, of the brain are responsible for different manners of thinking. The following table illustrates the differences between left-brain and right-brain thinking: Left Brain: Logical Sequential Rational Analytical Objective Looks at parts Right Brain: Random Intuitive Holistic Synthesizing Subjective Looks at wholes Most individuals have a distinct preference for one of these styles of thinking. Some, however, are more whole-brained and equally adept at both modes. In general, schools tend to favor left-brain modes of thinking, while downplaying the right-brain ones. Left-brain scholastic subjects focus on logical thinking, analysis, and accuracy. Right-brained subjects, on the other hand, focus on aesthetics, feeling, and creativity. From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 17 11:19:54 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? References: <1074310629.2049.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <000601c3dd1e$211f6990$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hmmmm.... D/L'ing now... curious to check this out :-) I have a Mac OS X 10.2 Server running in my office, so I'm curious to see how these interact... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Prince" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: OT: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 22:37, chris wrote: > > However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a > > turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of OS X > > for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) form. > ***Snip*** > > There should > > be info on this project available out there as it was no secret, it was > > originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it doesn't look > > anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, its really an > > Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never personally used/seen > > NeXTStep, I can't verify that). > > Well... They have Darwin (the parts under the fancy GUI) available in > x86 format... Freely downloadable at > http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ all the way from 10.0 to > 10.3... > > Or is that not what you're interested in? > > Sorry for being Off Topic... > > TTFN > Andy-roo > From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jan 17 11:20:50 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: VAXstation SCSI question Message-ID: On the back of the VS 3100 is a DEC SCSI connector that I would like to be able to adapt to a 'normal' SCSI I cable (Amphenol Blue Ribbon connector). The 2nd choice would be to connect to once of the spare cables inside the box... Anyone have any info on an available adapter for this? Googling didn't help much... Long shot: was there ever a Pertec formatter made for the VAXstations? Or SMD interface? Just curious... Cheers John From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 17 11:31:29 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators References: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> Message-ID: <000c01c3dd1f$bdee1f90$1a02a8c0@starship1> Being an admin is certainly a creative task (of course it all depends on the admin, you've got intense ones who go down the very tip of the tree levels of admining every aspect of the system to ensure reliability, security and stability and then the lazy admins who think an update or a request is bothering them)... You have to be creative an admining a server, and/or network to create an environment that is well oiled and manageable and scalable, otherwise you spend more time slapping band-aids and shoe strings just to keep it from collapsing on a daily basis. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:17 AM Subject: System programmers vs. administrators > I was having a discussion with a friend earlier tonight about > programming, and how I've never been the least bit interested in > learning how to program -I'm convinced that I have a mental block > against it, or something like that. > > As the discussion progressed, we decided that there are two types of > advanced computer users -system programmers and system administrators. > That in itself is debatable but where our discussion became bogged down > was when we tried to decide which user was left brain, and which was > right brain. > > We started by agreeing that programmers are artists, while the > administrators are more scientific. But then, as we talked, we decided > that you could make the same arguement for each side. > > So, I thought I would throw the discussion out here, and see what you > guys think. Assuming that there really are two types of computer users > -programmers and administrators- which side is left brain thinking, and > which is right brain thinking? > > I pulled the following off some psycho-babble website: > > Experimentation has shown that the two different sides, or hemispheres, > of the brain are responsible for different manners of thinking. The > following table illustrates the differences between left-brain and > right-brain thinking: > > Left Brain: > > Logical > Sequential > Rational > Analytical > Objective > Looks at parts > > Right Brain: > > Random > Intuitive > Holistic > Synthesizing > Subjective > Looks at wholes > > > Most individuals have a distinct preference for one of these styles of > thinking. Some, however, are more whole-brained and equally adept at > both modes. In general, schools tend to favor left-brain modes of > thinking, while downplaying the right-brain ones. Left-brain scholastic > subjects focus on logical thinking, analysis, and accuracy. > Right-brained subjects, on the other hand, focus on aesthetics, feeling, > and creativity. > From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 17 11:33:22 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage (grave-yard shift in the data center) References: <001201c3dcaa$7f388f30$6401a8c0@ernest> Message-ID: <001101c3dd20$015fe6a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> You too, huh??? Yes, I noticee when going into the break room I would spend about 2-3 minutes defrosting and getting the humming and ringing out of my ears before I acclimated myself back to a "normal" environment :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:32 PM Subject: RE: classiccmp outage (grave-yard shift in the data center) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:00 PM > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: classiccmp outage > > > > No kidding, heck I rarely would allow another engineer unfamiliar with > > one of my customers sites in the cage alone when I worked at Exodus (Now > > Cable & Wireless) a few years back, just too many ways for people to > > screw up and you just can't take ANY chances in a live production > > environment. Man that was a great job, nothing beats the humming of > > hundreds of machines, there cooling fans, the airconditioners whirling > > away, your fingers turning blue after 12 hours in the datacenter, > > occassionally some soul when come walking past and thats like your only > > glimpse of human life for another couple of hours.... ahhhh the good old > > DOT COM days.... > > Or, working the data center grave-yard shift (11pm to 9am.) Very quiet, very > lonely, and the only human interaction you have is when you have to wake up > one of the HVAC guys at 2:30am. Bleak. Very Bleak. > > Then around 8am, with morning breath and five-o'clock shadow, you shuffle > your sorry ass to the kitchen for coffee, and you run into the perky young > hotties fresh into work. They're looking their cutest, and you're looking > your raggedy-assed and red-eyed worst. Not many dates for the grave-yard > shift. > > I think I suffered hearing loss from working in that data center, also. 400+ > Compaq rack servers, a couple dozen HP Superdomes, two ADIC robotic tape > libraries, and ten or so HP400s all humming loudly under the deafening roar > of the cooling fans. It was both exciting and utterly wretched. > > The funny part, in a sad kind of way, was that the Data Center was > supposedly haunted by an unfriendly ghost. Your mind can start to play > tricks on you at two in the morning. Did you just see a shadow dart behind > the far Superdome? Is that a voice that you keep hearing underneath the > noise of the data center? Why is the hair on your neck suddenly standing up? > Why did the broom just fall over? Yes. The grave-yard shift in a haunted > data center was not much fun for me, but at least I couldn't hear the foot > steps of the ghosts creeping up behind me, and that's a good thing. > Otherwise, I would have had to face the morning beauties with bad breath AND > soiled underpants. > > From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Jan 17 11:56:13 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: <000601c3dd1e$211f6990$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <000601c3dd1e$211f6990$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <4009773D.2070103@charter.net> Subscribe to the darwin-x86 mailing list at: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/darwin-x86 Curt vendel wrote: >Hmmmm.... > >D/L'ing now... curious to check this out :-) > >I have a Mac OS X 10.2 Server running in my office, so I'm curious to see >how these interact... > >Curt > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Andrew Prince" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:37 PM >Subject: OT: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > > >>On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 22:37, chris wrote: >> >> >>>However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a >>>turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of OS >>> >>> >X > > >>>for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) form. >>> >>> >>***Snip*** >> >> >>> There should >>>be info on this project available out there as it was no secret, it was >>>originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it doesn't look >>>anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, its really an >>>Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never personally used/seen >>>NeXTStep, I can't verify that). >>> >>> >>Well... They have Darwin (the parts under the fancy GUI) available in >>x86 format... Freely downloadable at >>http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ all the way from 10.0 to >>10.3... >> >>Or is that not what you're interested in? >> >>Sorry for being Off Topic... >> >>TTFN >>Andy-roo >> >> >> > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jan 17 12:01:55 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: VAXstation SCSI question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > On the back of the VS 3100 is a DEC SCSI connector that I would like to > be able to adapt to a 'normal' SCSI I cable (Amphenol Blue Ribbon > connector). The 2nd choice would be to connect to once of the spare > cables inside the box... > > Anyone have any info on an available adapter for this? Googling didn't > help much... > > Long shot: was there ever a Pertec formatter made for the VAXstations? Or > SMD interface? Just curious... > I have some VS3100 cables (funny 68 pin to 50 pin ribbon) available for shipping costs... > > Cheers > > John > > Peter Wallace From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sat Jan 17 12:08:47 2004 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: classiccmp outage (grave-yard shift in the data center) In-Reply-To: <001201c3dcaa$7f388f30$6401a8c0@ernest> References: <001201c3dcaa$7f388f30$6401a8c0@ernest> Message-ID: LOL You think that's bad? Try doing security. Patrol was bad enough - the drunks are scarier than ghosts when coming at you at 60+ mph the wrong way on the Interstate - but there is more than enough ghosts out there to keep you on your toes! There were several buildings that I avoided whenever possible - I'm sure they were haunted. OK, kevlar and a gun makes you feel a little better when approaching a drunk bum... But how is it going to help against a ghost? A Glock can only do so much. OT: Hey, I finally got ircd running on my iMac! Compiling Bahamut is a PITA, and strangely the 1.6 RC3 beta worked and the 1.something release didn't. Go figure. Now to figure out just why I did all of this... >The funny part, in a sad kind of way, was that the Data Center was >supposedly haunted by an unfriendly ghost. Your mind can start to play >tricks on you at two in the morning. Did you just see a shadow dart behind >the far Superdome? Is that a voice that you keep hearing underneath the >noise of the data center? Why is the hair on your neck suddenly standing up? >Why did the broom just fall over? Yes. The grave-yard shift in a haunted >data center was not much fun for me, but at least I couldn't hear the foot >steps of the ghosts creeping up behind me, and that's a good thing. >Otherwise, I would have had to face the morning beauties with bad breath AND >soiled underpants. -- ------------ John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net ------------ From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 17 12:11:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: <00de01c3dd10$b31ec7e0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > I've gotten a few good systems together for free but > > sometimes I just gotta think of all the _time_ I would've > > saved If I had just paid the reseller price with one > > phonecall. > > > > John A. > > > > > > > Sometimes the hunt is fun just in itself (unless of course the 1 part you > don't have makes the rest of the system unusable). Face it: the reason we collect at all is because of the fun of the hunt! That's why we always refer to it as "collecting" and not "storing and preserving". Because once we find it, the "collecting" part is mostly done :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 17 12:24:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators In-Reply-To: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ernest wrote: > So, I thought I would throw the discussion out here, and see what you > guys think. Assuming that there really are two types of computer users > -programmers and administrators- which side is left brain thinking, and > which is right brain thinking? There certainly are people predisposed to programming, just as there are people predisposed to not wanting to program. I've noticed that either you have a passion for it, or at least a compelling interest in it, or you don't. I've known people to discover their passion for programming at a very young age (<10) and a not so young age (>20). As far as which is more left/right brain, programming is both, obviously, because it requires not only logical thinking but creativity. You can have left brain only programmers, but their code is medicore. You can have right brain only programmers, but their code is mediocre. It is those programmers that can employ their entire brain that produce truly inspiring code. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 17 12:40:11 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators References: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> <000c01c3dd1f$bdee1f90$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <012801c3dd29$56b22920$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt vendel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Re: System programmers vs. administrators > Being an admin is certainly a creative task (of course it all depends on the > admin, you've got intense ones who go down the very tip of the tree levels > of admining every aspect of the system to ensure reliability, security and > stability and then the lazy admins who think an update or a request is > bothering them)... > > You have to be creative an admining a server, and/or network to create an > environment that is well oiled and manageable and scalable, otherwise you > spend more time slapping band-aids and shoe strings just to keep it from > collapsing on a daily basis. > > > > Curt > I seen a few system administrators that do nothing more then setup windows boxes, simple networking, and simple servers following whatever the current Microsoft manuals/books say to do. That's more following directions then being creative. I guess the sysadmins who work on keeping google humming, ebay running, and the spam moving are the creative ones these days. Don't think I ever met a systems programmer (met quite a few applications guys who use VB to interface with databases and custom reports generators), but they would probably be the most creative IMHO. From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 17 13:02:25 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? References: <000601c3dd1e$211f6990$1a02a8c0@starship1> <4009773D.2070103@charter.net> Message-ID: <001c01c3dd2c$7204c2c0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Thanks James.... I just subscribed :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > Subscribe to the darwin-x86 mailing list at: > > http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/darwin-x86 > > Curt vendel wrote: > > >Hmmmm.... > > > >D/L'ing now... curious to check this out :-) > > > >I have a Mac OS X 10.2 Server running in my office, so I'm curious to see > >how these interact... > > > >Curt > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Andrew Prince" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:37 PM > >Subject: OT: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > > > > > > > >>On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 22:37, chris wrote: > >> > >> > >>>However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a > >>>turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of OS > >>> > >>> > >X > > > > > >>>for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) form. > >>> > >>> > >>***Snip*** > >> > >> > >>> There should > >>>be info on this project available out there as it was no secret, it was > >>>originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it doesn't look > >>>anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, its really an > >>>Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never personally used/seen > >>>NeXTStep, I can't verify that). > >>> > >>> > >>Well... They have Darwin (the parts under the fancy GUI) available in > >>x86 format... Freely downloadable at > >>http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ all the way from 10.0 to > >>10.3... > >> > >>Or is that not what you're interested in? > >> > >>Sorry for being Off Topic... > >> > >>TTFN > >>Andy-roo > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > From danjr at voyager.net Sat Jan 17 13:03:49 2004 From: danjr at voyager.net (danjr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 Message-ID: <200401171903.i0HJ3n7l043628@mail3.mx.voyager.net> I have put this out on the list before, with limited response. I am looking for a good (preferrably working) IBM PS/2 Model 25. I would also prefer one with a hard drive of some kind. Thanks Dan From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 17 13:06:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: why ? References: Message-ID: <002901c3dd2c$f76d49a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> The hunt is most definitely a great part of it, I enjoy the "chase" I spend many hours each week research engineering notes and docs and find "clues" that lead me to names, project codes and other things that help to piece together parts of a puzzle and have helped me over the years to track down aspects of Atari that no one outside not just the company but this micro-secret groups knew of. The other part of collecting is to finally own these items which we all envied and could only dream of owning when we first saw or heard of them when they were brand new and well outside probably this entire groups collective finances at the time :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: Re: why ? > On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > > > I've gotten a few good systems together for free but > > > sometimes I just gotta think of all the _time_ I would've > > > saved If I had just paid the reseller price with one > > > phonecall. > > > > > > John A. > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes the hunt is fun just in itself (unless of course the 1 part you > > don't have makes the rest of the system unusable). > > Face it: the reason we collect at all is because of the fun of the hunt! > That's why we always refer to it as "collecting" and not "storing and > preserving". Because once we find it, the "collecting" part is mostly > done :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jan 17 13:35:50 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: VAXstation SCSI question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, John Lawson wrote: > On the back of the VS 3100 is a DEC SCSI connector that I would like > to be able to adapt to a 'normal' SCSI I cable (Amphenol Blue Ribbon > connector). The 2nd choice would be to connect to once of the spare > cables inside the box... > > Anyone have any info on an available adapter for this? Googling > didn't help much... DEC's BC09J cable goes from the 68-pin male on the back of the VAXstation 3100 to a standard 50-pin centronics male type connector. -brian. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 17 13:40:42 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: why ? References: <002901c3dd2c$f76d49a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <014501c3dd31$cb237360$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt vendel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 2:06 PM Subject: Re: why ? > The hunt is most definitely a great part of it, I enjoy the "chase" I > spend many hours each week research engineering notes and docs and find > "clues" that lead me to names, project codes and other things that help to > piece together parts of a puzzle and have helped me over the years to track > down aspects of Atari that no one outside not just the company but this > micro-secret groups knew of. > > The other part of collecting is to finally own these items which we all > envied and could only dream of owning when we first saw or heard of them > when they were brand new and well outside probably this entire groups > collective finances at the time :-) > > > Curt > The fun of the "chase" all depends on your finances and how much effort it takes to get one. If your into apple I's you can spend 10 years digging around for a lost one in somebody's attic before you find your gem, or if your bill gates wave some cash around and have one delivered the next day without getting off your couch. Its not just the chase but the good story behind it that you can tell others about when they ask about your collection. I bet the thrill of the chase can be addicting, just like collecting can turn into an all consuming desire to have one of anything made whether your going to use it or not. I found myself a few times getting ready to bid on some rare item for a machine I have and had to ask myself what the heck I really wanted it for or what use it would serve. My collecting research involves old magazines, joining forums that cater to the systems I collect, email usergroups, swaplists, googleing old emails on the subject to name a few. You find alot of information these ways and also get to talk to people all over the globe with similar collections without pounding the pavement or spending a ton in gas money/plane fare. Yea its nice having a machine that cost $10,000 new for $20 now or a $1M system for a few hundred if thats what you get into. My collection consists of common systems with less common add-ons running common to harder to find software (some very uncommon). Mostly stuff I never had when I was young that still interests me today (funny how these things add up quickly, take up quite a bit of space, and lead me to expand the area I collect in). From india_50 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 17 13:41:57 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <20040117194157.60149.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> hey, u know what, building a single board computer with an 8088 isn't all that difficult and a lot of circuits are already available. one can also design a custom based computer as per the requirements. infact, the only problem would be in loading the monitor program, which can either be copied from retail versions, or can written afresh(tested ofcourse), and then used. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 17 13:44:56 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 Message-ID: Just a quickie folks, Does anyone have the power cable pinouts for the Osborne 1 motherboard? Got one here from Kevan that doesn't boot at all - consistent garbage on the nice'n'bright screen. Before I start further messing with the beast I want to make sure it's getting enough juice. Suppose I can always check the CPU and RAM chips for +5V couldn't I - it's been powered up in this condition in the past so I'm not going to do any more damage to it :) Got to dig out my hot glue gun too - in their infinite wisdom they've glued the mountings for one of the daughterboards onto the motherboard :-/ Cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 17 13:47:41 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update part II the sequel In-Reply-To: <040116185800.25e89@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu [mailto:TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu] > Sent: 16 January 2004 23:58 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: MicroVAX I update part II the sequel > > > The leds and patch panel display show 7 through 1, with zero being > control passing to secondary bootstrap. > Thanks for that, Joe. I'm suspecting a backplane problem now since I put the VAX memory into my MicroPDP and all was well. Next week I'll swap all the boards over to the PDP cab and see what happens. Cheers :) -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 17 13:51:07 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update part II the sequel In-Reply-To: <20040117033619.GC320@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:dickset@amanda.spole.gov] > Sent: 17 January 2004 03:36 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I update part II the sequel > > If you have some PDP-11 Qbus memory lying about, say, 512K, that would > be enought to get started. Conversely, you could test your 4MB card in > a PDP-11. It's all the same before PMI. Yup, that's what I did and it worked fine......it's a 1mb board BTW. Be nice to get it working again - I haven't seen VMS 4.x for over a decade! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From india_50 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 17 13:56:38 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Message-ID: <20040117195638.62247.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> well, of course, they wouldn't be cheap to produce on a wafer like other chips. Also, i don't think it is feasible as such will not be able to handle all the power that would be o/p(heat i mean), which would be in Watts!!(too high for ICs) therefore i don't think it is possible to get led's for the 75dpi screen ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From india_50 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 17 14:06:44 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <20040117200644.98121.qmail@web14204.mail.yahoo.com> Message: 14 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:15:27 -0700 From: ben franchuk Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <4008C4EF.10003@jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > >>Steve Ciarcia's bomebrew computers (he did several -- I remember an 8088 >>system in 5 chips, a sort-of PC compatible, a Z8 board without even >>thinking about it) were based on microprocessors. But I do remember a >>Byte article on making a homebrew CPU (from TTL). I think it was called >>'EGO', and hung off a Tandy 2000. > > > I remember that. I still have the Byte magazines the EGO appeared in. > Neat CPU, made for floating point operations if I recall. > > -spc (Fondly remembers bytes from the mid 80s ... ) But it was micro programed with EPROMS. Nice idea. Ben. hey, can u also fwd me a copy of the 'EGO' article ur talking about. plss....... i need it desperately........... pls...... subs here ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From india_50 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 17 14:16:01 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators Message-ID: <20040117201601.99162.qmail@web14204.mail.yahoo.com> Hmm, well u know what, the system programmers i guess use the right side of their brain, while the admins use their left. i guess, as an admin, u need to look at individual problems and try to solve them with a more logical and rational approach while, a programmer would have to use his creativity, and intuition to be able to "design" programs/SWs. and, i'm neither of them, so no bias here!!! what do u think, curt??? > > > >Message: 1 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:17:33 -0800 From: Ernest Subject: System programmers vs. administrators To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> Content-Type: text/plain I was having a discussion with a friend earlier tonight about programming, and how I've never been the least bit interested in learning how to program -I'm convinced that I have a mental block against it, or something like that. As the discussion progressed, we decided that there are two types of advanced computer users -system programmers and system administrators. That in itself is debatable but where our discussion became bogged down was when we tried to decide which user was left brain, and which was right brain. We started by agreeing that programmers are artists, while the administrators are more scientific. But then, as we talked, we decided that you could make the same arguement for each side. So, I thought I would throw the discussion out here, and see what you guys think. Assuming that there really are two types of computer users -programmers and administrators- which side is left brain thinking, and which is right brain thinking? I pulled the following off some psycho-babble website: Experimentation has shown that the two different sides, or hemispheres, of the brain are responsible for different manners of thinking. The following table illustrates the differences between left-brain and right-brain thinking: Left Brain: Logical Sequential Rational Analytical Objective Looks at parts Right Brain: Random Intuitive Holistic Synthesizing Subjective Looks at wholes Most individuals have a distinct preference for one of these styles of thinking. Some, however, are more whole-brained and equally adept at both modes. In general, schools tend to favor left-brain modes of thinking, while downplaying the right-brain ones. Left-brain scholastic subjects focus on logical thinking, analysis, and accuracy. Right-brained subjects, on the other hand, focus on aesthetics, feeling, and creativity. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:19:54 -0500 From: "Curt vendel" Subject: Re: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? To: , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <000601c3dd1e$211f6990$1a02a8c0@starship1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hmmmm.... D/L'ing now... curious to check this out :-) I have a Mac OS X 10.2 Server running in my office, so I'm curious to see how these interact... Curt ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 17 14:38:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Programming 1702 EPROMs, ProLog Programmer question Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040117153818.00836e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've been playing with my old Pro-Log M900 programmer this morning and I've figured out how to duplicate 1702 EPROMs. But I haven't figured out how to use the memory buffer in the programmer. I THINK I've figured out how to read the buffer contents and change them but something is wrong. When I change the contents and then try to list them, they're reset to all FFs. Either I'm not changing them or I'm not reading them or when I switch from edit to list they're being reset. I also haven't figured out how to dump an EPROM to the buffer or program one from the buffer. Anybody know how to use the M 900? I have a manual for the M 980 but it doesn't help. The main confusion seems to be figuring out exactly what the Memory Buffer vs Normal switch does. Joe From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jan 17 15:44:05 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: <200401170339.i0H3dcbO030469@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <009301c3dd43$07dd5940$e954d1ac@aoldsl.net> since he is local to you Zane we elect you to go over and threaten him with broken legs if he disembowels any more neat ho stuff! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 8:39 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > > > > Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" > > > > And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F > > > > Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* > > > > Check the rest of his auctions, I was looking at the DEC boards he has > listed the other day. He has no clue at reasonable prices. Check out the > MINC-11. > > I'd be interested in knowing who he is though, as he's semi-local to me from > the looks of things. > > Zane > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 17 14:50:01 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: <200401170339.i0H3dcbO030469@onyx.spiritone.com> <009301c3dd43$07dd5940$e954d1ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <017001c3dd3b$7a3a35b0$0500fea9@game> Would be smarter to email the seller (through ebay's ask the seller a question) and point the guy to this mailinglist. Nothing motivates somebody to do the "right thing" then letting him know there is more cash in selling the unit intact then saving the faceplate and scrapping the machine. Nothing motivates people more then money (except maybe sex). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Sharpe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > since he is local to you Zane we elect you to go over and threaten him with > broken legs if he disembowels any more neat ho stuff! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zane H. Healy" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 17 14:56:17 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <017001c3dd3b$7a3a35b0$0500fea9@game> References: <200401170339.i0H3dcbO030469@onyx.spiritone.com> <009301c3dd43$07dd5940$e954d1ac@aoldsl.net> <017001c3dd3b$7a3a35b0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <98265644-492F-11D8-81E3-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 17, 2004, at 2:50 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > Would be smarter to email the seller (through ebay's ask the seller a > question) and point the guy to this mailinglist. Nothing motivates > somebody > to do the "right thing" then letting him know there is more cash in > selling > the unit intact then saving the faceplate and scrapping the machine. > Nothing > motivates people more then money (except maybe sex). I'm *not* volunteering for that one. Doc From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sat Jan 17 15:18:14 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: pdp problems Message-ID: <4009A696.9070702@ntlworld.com> I am having problems with the pdp 11/04 I picked up last week. If I power on with the machine without the extra cards, I get output on the la36 with a $ prompt. So far so good. But with the card cage connected the run light is permenantly on (ie. with halt switched), with no output.on anything (There are two rs232, la36 and a display unit) So the main questions are : what could cause this ?. The main cpu box has a 7856 which the la36 is connected to, also a 7800 which has an rs232 cable connected to it, how do I get the console output to this so I can use vtserver on it ? The controller card for the rx01 is in the extra card box, In the short term can this be moved to the main box ? It has a dead rk11-d and an untested rk11-c with no power supply unit and no case. What sort of power supply runs this, I also picked up about 5 different power supplies with this, so one of these might do the trick. Thanks for any help Dan From emu at ecubics.com Sat Jan 17 13:56:51 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40099383.1060008@ecubics.com> Tony Duel wrote: >>>Unlike classic computers, you can still build tube stuff out of your >>>basement.I have not seen any U-build computer kits, that made real > > > Then it's high time somebody produced a _real_ computer kit. As in a pile > of standard logic chips (no microoprocessors, no programmed devices, no > FPGAs, although I will allow RAM :-)).... There were few articles in european "elektor" about a computer build completely out of 74xxx. Was beginning of the 70's, and was called (?) the 74-computer. Would love to see this articles again ... cheers From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Jan 17 15:26:10 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)) In-Reply-To: Message from der Mouse of "Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:18:55 EST." <200401170209.VAA26029@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401172126.i0HLQAL27369@mwave.heeltoe.com> der Mouse wrote: ... >What I really want to build, y'see, is a cellular automaton machine. >Ideally, it would be little modules that abut one another and >communicate neighbour cell state between modules somehow. Then add a >little logic behind each LED, and clock them in parallel. ah, a CM-1 :-) I liked the cm-1 but I would allow them all to have independent program counters... :-) -brad From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Jan 17 15:28:16 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <40099383.1060008@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1038018B-4934-11D8-AA18-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> > > There were few articles in european "elektor" about a computer build > completely out of 74xxx. Was beginning of the 70's, and was called (?) > the 74-computer. > > Would love to see this articles again ... > > cheers That design was somewhat strange, it used no clock, but relied on handshaking for its timing. It was also very inefficient in its hardware usage, using scores of 74181`for hardware multiply and divide. It had a choice of shiftregisters or 2102 as main memory. No PCB were produced. It was not for the fainthearded.... Jos Dreese From vrs at msn.com Sat Jan 17 15:51:57 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > > Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" > > And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F > > Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* I was just wondering...I know it is worth more to *us* before it is taken apart. Is it also true that it is worth more everywhere before it is taken apart? Or is it the case that someone will give more money to take it apart (for the gold, or whatever)? Does it matter if the machine is in working condition (so that a collector would pay top dollar), or if it is a dusty-rusty (perhaps already with pieces missing)? If so, does this indicate we are too cheap to save some of these machines? Bear in mind it will cost the time and effort to find a collector that is interested, etc. Vince From bqt at update.uu.se Sat Jan 17 16:00:51 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11 disassembler In-Reply-To: <200401171733.i0HHVjid027958@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 "Jay West" wrote: > Someone contacted me about having a PDP-11 disassembler, with source code, > under the GPL license. Would folks here be interested in that? Not to disencourage you, but there are already several in the DECUS library. Mostly written in MACRO-11 admittedly... I usually use DOB on Magica. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jan 17 16:42:16 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: TI99/4a and expansion chassis Message-ID: <4009BA48.97E8805B@ccp.com> Just found the expansion chassis at a hamfest for $1, and wondering if there is any documentation online for it. I'd like to try to see if I can save some programs, etc. It has the bus interface card, floppy controller, RS232 adapter, and the 32k memory module too. Any of you TI fans out there please contact me off-list. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sat Jan 17 15:06:28 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: LH0080 Message-ID: <20040117210628.36304.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message: 16 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:12:27 +0100 (CET) From: Christian Corti Subject: Re: LH0080 On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: ?!?!? Pinout, specification etc. are identical to those of a Zilog Z80. It's just a second source part. Thanks for writing Christian... Completely identical in EVERY way to the zilog Z80? Kool... that make my work much easier. Thanks. Lyos Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 17 16:49:13 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers)) In-Reply-To: <200401172126.i0HLQAL27369@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401172126.i0HLQAL27369@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200401172254.RAA10511@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> What I really want to build, y'see, is a cellular automaton machine. >> Ideally, it would be little modules that abut one another and >> communicate neighbour cell state between modules somehow. Then add >> a little logic behind each LED, and clock them in parallel. > ah, a CM-1 :-) Well...drastically simplified, perhaps. :-) > I liked the cm-1 but I would allow them all to have independent > program counters... :-) MIMD rather than SIMD? The big advantage of SIMD is that you don't need N copies of the instruction fetch and decode machinery.... The CA machine I'm thinking of wouldn't even have program counters; each cell would conceptually be just a blob of combinatorial logic and a flipflop for current cell state. There may be more state, such as the 512 bits of RAM I mentioned in a past message, but that's an implementation detail; conceptually those are control lines. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 17 16:56:51 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <20040117200644.98121.qmail@web14204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4009BDB3.8030603@jetnet.ab.ca> Subramanian Iyer wrote: > > But it was micro programed with EPROMS. Nice idea. > Ben. > > hey, can u also fwd me a copy of the 'EGO' article ur > talking about. plss....... > i need it desperately........... > pls...... Don't ask me, I don't have the access to BYTE anymore. Sorry. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 17 16:53:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 17, 4 07:44:56 pm Message-ID: > > Just a quickie folks, > > Does anyone have the power cable pinouts for the Osborne 1 motherboard? Got > one here from Kevan that doesn't boot at all - consistent garbage on the > nice'n'bright screen. Before I start further messing with the beast I want > to make sure it's getting enough juice. Suppose I can always check the CPU > and RAM chips for +5V couldn't I - it's been powered up in this condition in Yes, that's what I'd do. Check the 5V line at a known chip (CPU, or a TTL device). In a machine of this type, there'll only be one 5V line (unlike in my 11/45 where there are several, from separate PSU bricks...). I don't know what the RAMs used are, but if they're 3-rail types, like 4116s, you should check the other supplies there too. If the PSU lines look good, then check that the CPU is getting a clock signal. Look also for activity (changing singals) on the address and data lines from the CPU. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 17 16:56:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <40099383.1060008@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Jan 17, 4 12:56:51 pm Message-ID: > There were few articles in european "elektor" about a computer build > completely out of 74xxx. Was beginning of the 70's, and was called (?) > the 74-computer. Somewhere I have a Radio Shack book, a simple introduction to computing. All I can remember about it is that it's landscape format, has a green cover, and is spiral-bound along the top edge. Anyway, it contains a schematic for a very simple processor built from TTL (IIRC). Simple, in that it has 16 locations of 8 bits for the program memory, each 8 bit word is a 4 bit opcode and a 4 bit data memory address IIRC. I ought to find said book and spend an enjoyable afternoon soldering it up... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 17 17:00:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:33 2005 Subject: pdp problems In-Reply-To: <4009A696.9070702@ntlworld.com> from "Dan Williams" at Jan 17, 4 01:18:14 pm Message-ID: > > I am having problems with the pdp 11/04 I picked up last week. If I > power on with the machine without the extra cards, I get output on the > la36 with a $ prompt. So far so good. But with the card cage connected > the run light is permenantly on (ie. with halt switched), with no > output.on anything (There are two rs232, la36 and a display unit) > So the main questions are : > > what could cause this ?. Is your terminator an M9302 (I would guess so, that's the normal one for the 11/04 and 11/34 machines). If so, then this is the classic symptom of an open grant chain (this has been discussed here many times before). Perhaps you're missing a grant continuity card, or perhaps there's a missing NPG wire-wrap jumper. > It has a dead rk11-d and an untested rk11-c with no power supply unit > and no case. What sort of power supply runs this, I also picked up about The original PSU for the RK11-C is an H720 of some flavour. -tony From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 17 17:10:20 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <01ad01c3dd4f$140606c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "vrs" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:51 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > > > > Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" > > > > And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F > > > > Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* > > I was just wondering...I know it is worth more to *us* before it is taken > apart. > > Is it also true that it is worth more everywhere before it is taken apart? > Or is it the case that someone will give more money to take it apart (for > the gold, or whatever)? > > Does it matter if the machine is in working condition (so that a collector > would pay top dollar), or if it is a dusty-rusty (perhaps already with > pieces missing)? > > If so, does this indicate we are too cheap to save some of these machines? > Bear in mind it will cost the time and effort to find a collector that is > interested, etc. > > Vince > Very few people collect vintage computer equipment, there is no priceguide, and there is no way to contact collectors direct even if you thought it was collectable in the first place. If I find some old coins, guns, baseball cards, stamps, Lionel trains, hummels, cars, gold, silver, records, all I have to do to sell them is to hit the local pawnshop, put an add in a number of auto traders, hit the coin/stamp/baseball shops, hummel shops, scarp buyer, etc. There are dozens of pricequides for these items, and all except cars can be easily stored in your house taking up little space. To a non collector an old mini or mainframe is nothing but a large piece of obsolete equipment only worth its scarp value (steel, aluminum,copper, and gold). The easiest thing to do is have it hauled away for scrap after you rip out any major chips that look like they might have gold in them (cpu's mostly). I remember maybe 10 years ago somebody who built computers and had a photo shop (weird combination?) purchased a minicomputer the size of a sideways refrigerator along with a few dozen diskless terminals that made up the LAN. I asked him what he was going to do with all that stuff and he said he would salvage the keyboards and monitors and resell those while the main computer would be scrapped because the multiple cpu's had allot of gold in them. I remember he said he got the whole lan for just a few dollars at auction and that few people knew that the processors inside the huge machine had a decent amount of gold in them. I bet quite a few people figured out the gold aspect especially since gold prices were high at that time (has gone up quite a bit last year or so also). So you had a machine nobody wanted (he was the only guy who put in a bid) and was only purchased because somebody knew about the gold value (filled the basement of his shop too). If you want to let people know this stuff is worth more then scrap you have to make and publish a price guide showing common equipment at a few times scrap value and machines that are rare at many multiples of their scrap value (pull a number out of your ass basically). You have to include some pictures so people know what the hell it looks like and put a few different prices for different "grades" of preservation (collectors love this) also include the little add-ons to the system and what they are worth. make sure you list dozens of people in this book who are experts in appraising the collectables (basically people here and what they collect plus their phone numbers or email). After you put this together you print a few 100 copies and send them to the local papers computer columnists and they will write an article about it in the paper ( I am sure they are running out of crap to print by now), maybe send a few copies to web magazines like Toms Hardware, Anandtech, etc and they will put something up also, and lastly send a few to the wall street journal. Once people think there is a market for this stuff (hell if there is a priceguide there must be a huge market of suckers who will buy it) they will end up digging around and finding system that they will then end up wanting appraised by YOU (you will end up selling a few catalogs in the process also). The only downside is that machines people would normally pay you to take them away will now have to be purchased (cause its worth money), that and you will find more collectors (more like greedy dealers) in the market. Before you laugh quite a few small hobbies have exploded after people pulled values out of nowhere and published price guides. The companies who made priceguides for baseball cards and then after the explosion started grading services probably make more cash then any dealer ever did. One guy did this for old metal lunchpales and started a decent following. If you looked on ebay lately you will notice quite a lot of mass produced 8/16 bit computers selling way above any scrap value because a group of people started up the retro computing craze. All those who get in before the boom end up making cash at the very least and end up making sure those old machines don't end up getting scrapped (same for books and software which could fill a catalog in itself). Besides more people that get turned on to the hobby the more people that can help you out with problems or pay for your knowledge. Just an idea... TZ From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jan 17 17:10:59 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: PAGING Dan Cohoe Message-ID: Dan, Your email is not working. Got your voicemail msg, sent a copy of the original message to your alternate address. I'm in LA now, but still reachable by phone. (and, thanks to Starbucks, also by email again ;-) Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 17 16:54:31 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: LEDs Was: Re: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic In-Reply-To: <20040117195638.62247.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040117195638.62247.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200401172322.SAA10608@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [writing about my CA pipe-dream] > Also, i don't think it is feasible as such will not be able to handle > all the power that would be o/p(heat i mean), which would be in > Watts!!(too high for ICs) Too high for ICs? CPU chips regularly dissipate multiple watts. And as I pointed out, I don't want the LEDs to be as bright as most discrete LEDs. Consider a 4dpi panel made out of discrete LEDs. Assume the figures given before (2V drop, 10ma current). Then a square foot of panel pulls 48*48*10ma*2V = 46.08 watts (without considering how much becomes light and how much heat). I wouldn't expect a square foot of this panel to be drawing any more than that, at least at low clock rates. It might even draw significantly less, since I don't expect fully-lit area to be as bright as those low-res panels (which are usually intended to be looked at from large distances, like at least across the street). Assuming the aggregate draw to be the same, the LEDs would pull 10ma*(4dpi*4dpi)/(75dpi*75dpi) = about 30?a each. I have some discrete LEDs with clear housings. I tried two of them in back-to-back parallel, with a 1M series resistance, across 120VAC mains voltage (the idea being that I can ignore the LED voltage drop when figuring the current), for about 120?a. This produced a clearly visible glow, despite being spread out by the lens. I feel sure 30?a would be plenty, given an housing optically appropriate to the purpose. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 17 17:36:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 17 January 2004 22:54 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 > > Yes, that's what I'd do. Check the 5V line at a known chip (CPU, or a TTL > device). In a machine of this type, there'll only be one 5V line (unlike > in my 11/45 where there are several, from separate PSU bricks...). > > I don't know what the RAMs used are, but if they're 3-rail types, like > 4116s, you should check the other supplies there too. They are indeed 4116s, my comment on the glue gun was there because 3/4 of the RAM is obscured by (I'd guess) the floppy drive connector board that is sat in mountings glued to the motherboard. Still, I don't need to remove it....yet.... > If the PSU lines look good, then check that the CPU is getting a clock > signal. Look also for activity (changing singals) on the address and data > lines from the CPU. That was next on the list :) I must advance plans to sell things to let me get a good bench PSU and 'scope - watching an electronics pro work on a machine the other day showed just how important they are! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Jan 17 17:36:34 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: <014501c3dd31$cb237360$0500fea9@game> References: <002901c3dd2c$f76d49a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <014501c3dd31$cb237360$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <200401171836.34799.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 17 January 2004 14:40, Teo Zenios wrote: > Yea its nice having a machine that cost $10,000 new for $20 now or a > $1M system for a few hundred if thats what you get into. My Or what cost over $2M new for $20.... http://www.ozonelair.com/sp/receipt.jpg BTW, That's my friend's machine. Now a days, we don't get quite as good of deals as we used to... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 17 17:44:46 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: why ? References: <002901c3dd2c$f76d49a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <014501c3dd31$cb237360$0500fea9@game> <200401171836.34799.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <021401c3dd53$e3b35270$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 6:36 PM Subject: Re: why ? > On Saturday 17 January 2004 14:40, Teo Zenios wrote: > > Yea its nice having a machine that cost $10,000 new for $20 now or a > > $1M system for a few hundred if thats what you get into. My > > Or what cost over $2M new for $20.... > http://www.ozonelair.com/sp/receipt.jpg > > BTW, That's my friend's machine. > > Now a days, we don't get quite as good of deals as we used to... > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > Don't think anything I have costs more then $10,000 new, but at least I can move them without a forklift and they run on 110vac. Exactly what machines was this $2,000,000 monster is there a pic of it somewhere? From spc at conman.org Sat Jan 17 17:52:44 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <4009BDB3.8030603@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Jan 17, 2004 03:56:51 PM Message-ID: <20040117235244.50C0D1416D9A@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great ben franchuk once stated: > > Subramanian Iyer wrote: > > > > But it was micro programed with EPROMS. Nice idea. > > Ben. > > > > hey, can u also fwd me a copy of the 'EGO' article ur > > talking about. plss....... > > i need it desperately........... > > pls...... > > Don't ask me, I don't have the access to BYTE anymore. > Sorry. I do, but it will take some time to get to the magazines in question (the article is in two parts), then scan them. It might be easier to see if a library (maybe a university one) has back issues of Byte. The articles appeared sometime in '85 or '86. -spc From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Jan 17 18:23:36 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: <021401c3dd53$e3b35270$0500fea9@game> References: <200401171836.34799.pat@computer-refuge.org> <021401c3dd53$e3b35270$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <200401171923.36005.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 17 January 2004 18:44, Teo Zenios wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Finnegan" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: why ? > > > On Saturday 17 January 2004 14:40, Teo Zenios wrote: > > > Yea its nice having a machine that cost $10,000 new for $20 now > > > or a $1M system for a few hundred if thats what you get into. My > > > > Or what cost over $2M new for $20.... > > http://www.ozonelair.com/sp/receipt.jpg > > > > BTW, That's my friend's machine. > > > > Now a days, we don't get quite as good of deals as we used to... > > > > Pat > > Don't think anything I have costs more then $10,000 new, but at least > I can move them without a forklift and they run on 110vac. Exactly > what machines was this $2,000,000 monster is there a pic of it > somewhere? It's (parts of and upgrades to) the original IBM RS/6000 SP that Purdue purchased (on a grant I'm pretty sure) back in 1995 or so. (It's not even "classic" yet!) There's a picture of what a frame of it looks like on his web site. Try http://www.ozonelair.com/sp/ The machine is mostly 66MHz POWER-2 thin and wide nodes, with 512MB ram on the thins and 1GB on the wides. And you don't *need* a forklift to move it, assuming you're willing to take the nodes out of the frame. We didn't use a forklift to move it or the NCR Worldmark 5100 cabinet we've got (look on his web site for details on that machine). I think we paid a similar amount for one of the cabinets from that monster. It cost $7M when new, and after moving around parts to max out one cabinet (two nodes). They were 8 processor nodes with 1GB RAM each. Now they're 32 processor nodes with 4GB ram each. And, we bought 1.6TB of storage with it (before raid overhead) for about $40. Damn, to think how little we paid for that, I feel like I'm starting to get some value back from these tuition dollars. : ) And, considering they were both basically donated machines, I don't feel too bad about it. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 17 18:25:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <98265644-492F-11D8-81E3-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> References: <017001c3dd3b$7a3a35b0$0500fea9@game> <200401170339.i0H3dcbO030469@onyx.spiritone.com> <009301c3dd43$07dd5940$e954d1ac@aoldsl.net> <017001c3dd3b$7a3a35b0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040117192522.00850590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:56 PM 1/17/04 -0600, Doc wrote: >On Jan 17, 2004, at 2:50 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > >> Would be smarter to email the seller (through ebay's ask the seller a >> question) and point the guy to this mailinglist. Nothing motivates >> somebody >> to do the "right thing" then letting him know there is more cash in >> selling >> the unit intact then saving the faceplate and scrapping the machine. >> Nothing >> motivates people more then money (except maybe sex). > > I'm *not* volunteering for that one. > Which one, the sex or the money? Are you volunteering for the other one?` :-) From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 17 18:47:18 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: why ? References: <200401171836.34799.pat@computer-refuge.org> <021401c3dd53$e3b35270$0500fea9@game> <200401171923.36005.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <022b01c3dd5c$a0242940$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Re: why ? > On Saturday 17 January 2004 18:44, Teo Zenios wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patrick Finnegan" > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 6:36 PM > > Subject: Re: why ? > > It's (parts of and upgrades to) the original IBM RS/6000 SP that Purdue > purchased (on a grant I'm pretty sure) back in 1995 or so. (It's not > even "classic" yet!) There's a picture of what a frame of it looks > like on his web site. Try http://www.ozonelair.com/sp/ > > The machine is mostly 66MHz POWER-2 thin and wide nodes, with 512MB ram > on the thins and 1GB on the wides. > > And you don't *need* a forklift to move it, assuming you're willing to > take the nodes out of the frame. We didn't use a forklift to move it > or the NCR Worldmark 5100 cabinet we've got (look on his web site for > details on that machine). I think we paid a similar amount for one of > the cabinets from that monster. It cost $7M when new, and after moving > around parts to max out one cabinet (two nodes). They were 8 processor > nodes with 1GB RAM each. Now they're 32 processor nodes with 4GB ram > each. And, we bought 1.6TB of storage with it (before raid overhead) > for about $40. > > Damn, to think how little we paid for that, I feel like I'm starting to > get some value back from these tuition dollars. : ) And, considering > they were both basically donated machines, I don't feel too bad about > it. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The direct link doesn't work but I got to the picture from the main site. The IBM machines has an impressive case but I don't see what your friend is going to do with it. The NCR machine on the other hand is impressive to me (always like the ppro architecture and having 32 of them is even better). Any idea what kind of power requirements there is for a machine that large? Would make one hell of a webserver (assuming you can find an OS to run off of it). Computers like those 2 are cool but the power requirements and custom software required to boot them make it difficult to do anything with them let alone fire them up. I find it amusing that on the same page as those multimillion dollar computers the guy has a link to his dreamcast ($300 machine on launch) and how he got it to play NES games through an emulator. I also have a dreamcast with emulation cd's for all kinds of systems like nes, atari 2600/5200/7800 coleccovision and others. Maybe you can get the NCR machine to run a MAME cabinet at full speed! From cube1 at charter.net Sat Jan 17 19:00:47 2004 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive / HP 2871 Controller In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040104213209.033f8768@cirithi> References: <3FF846D3.80609@tiac.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20040103083041.03e0af10@cirithi> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040117185440.03d68298@cirithi> In working on my disc drive on my HP 2114B (Its a 2870) I have run into a little problem -- my drawings for the card are apparently out of date. The drawings I have are in HP manual 02870-9002. The card in question is a 9048. The drawings I have are dated 3/70, and the ECO level on the drawing is 1384. The card itself is datestamped Jul 9 70, and is stamped with a number (which I take to the be ECO) of 1566. The difference is right in the area (Phase 2) where things don't look right. The card is in Gate B, Slot B7. If anyone has newer drawings for the 2781 (aka Iomec 1802) I'd really appreciate a scan of that module (about 5 pages) and a scan of the pinout chart for that card location (the pinout chart is about half-way thru my copy of the manual, and the card drawings are nearer the end). (Hopefully my backplane and card *do* match..... X). Jay Jaeger --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jan 17 22:04:13 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: HP COS Manual on eBay Message-ID: HP 85001A Cassette Operating System manual http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2588251229&category=25409 Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 17 23:23:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 17, 4 11:36:46 pm Message-ID: > > I don't know what the RAMs used are, but if they're 3-rail types, like > > 4116s, you should check the other supplies there too. > > They are indeed 4116s, my comment on the glue gun was there because 3/4 of In which case you can check the +5V, +12V and -5V rails at pins on the RAM chips. > the RAM is obscured by (I'd guess) the floppy drive connector board that is I will be very suprised if not all the RAM runs off the same supply rails. In other words, you only need to check the voltages at one of the RAM chips (assuming there are no cracked tracks on the mainboard, but I wouldn't worry abnot that yet!). -tony From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 18 00:51:16 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Kaypro II's available Message-ID: <400A2CE4.5060608@mdrconsult.com> Was at the local thrift tonight and there are 4 apparently intact Kaypro II units there. They want $20 each, and do not dicker. I'd be willing to schlep them and ship them for a modest honorarium. I don't know anything at all about Kaypros, and really don't care to learn, so ALL I'll check for is huge dings in the box, obviously hosed keyboards, and cracked screen. The thrift doesn't allow testing, either. Reply off-list, please. Doc From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 17 23:58:06 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: 17 January 2004 22:54 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 > > > > Yes, that's what I'd do. Check the 5V line at a known chip (CPU, or a TTL > > device). In a machine of this type, there'll only be one 5V line (unlike > > in my 11/45 where there are several, from separate PSU bricks...). > > > > I don't know what the RAMs used are, but if they're 3-rail types, like > > 4116s, you should check the other supplies there too. > > They are indeed 4116s, my comment on the glue gun was there because 3/4 of > the RAM is obscured by (I'd guess) the floppy drive connector board that is > sat in mountings glued to the motherboard. Still, I don't need to remove > it....yet.... Be happy! That glued in daughter board is likely a double density adapter for your floppies. Well worth having. - don > > If the PSU lines look good, then check that the CPU is getting a clock > > signal. Look also for activity (changing singals) on the address and data > > lines from the CPU. > > That was next on the list :) I must advance plans to sell things to let me > get a good bench PSU and 'scope - watching an electronics pro work on a > machine the other day showed just how important they are! > > cheers > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 18 01:19:36 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040117192522.00850590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <017001c3dd3b$7a3a35b0$0500fea9@game> <200401170339.i0H3dcbO030469@onyx.spiritone.com> <009301c3dd43$07dd5940$e954d1ac@aoldsl.net> <017001c3dd3b$7a3a35b0$0500fea9@game> <3.0.6.32.20040117192522.00850590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <400A3388.5080309@mdrconsult.com> Joe R. wrote: > At 02:56 PM 1/17/04 -0600, Doc wrote: > >>On Jan 17, 2004, at 2:50 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: >> >> >>>Would be smarter to email the seller (through ebay's ask the seller a >>>question) and point the guy to this mailinglist. Nothing motivates >>>somebody >>>to do the "right thing" then letting him know there is more cash in >>>selling >>>the unit intact then saving the faceplate and scrapping the machine. >>>Nothing >>>motivates people more then money (except maybe sex). >> >> I'm *not* volunteering for that one. > > Which one, the sex or the money? Are you volunteering for the other > one?` :-) The sex. :) I've contributed a veritable wheelbarrow of money to my local scrapper's enlightenment. He now calls me about anything that doesn't carry an apple or "Intel Inside" sticker before he guts it. Speaking of which, anybody need a Pyramid Technologies server? He's got a couple. Doc From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jan 18 00:25:20 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: VAXstation SCSI question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On the back of the VS 3100 is a DEC SCSI connector that I would like to > be able to adapt to a 'normal' SCSI I cable (Amphenol Blue Ribbon > connector). The 2nd choice would be to connect to once of the spare > cables inside the box... It is a regular SCSI bus, just with a custom connector which somewhat resembles an HD68 connector. The DEC cable is (from memory) BC09-J I believe... it took me a long time to find and acquire two of those :) > Long shot: was there ever a Pertec formatter made for the VAXstations? Or > SMD interface? Just curious... No. --f From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 18 01:53:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040117235244.50C0D1416D9A@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I do, but it will take some time to get to the magazines in question (the > article is in two parts), then scan them. It might be easier to see if a > library (maybe a university one) has back issues of Byte. The articles > appeared sometime in '85 or '86. > > -spc No closing comment? -sai (This is a first...) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 00:35:13 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1038018B-4934-11D8-AA18-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> References: <1038018B-4934-11D8-AA18-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <400A2921.4040403@hotmail.com> Jos Dreesen wrote: > >> >> There were few articles in european "elektor" about a computer build >> completely out of 74xxx. Was beginning of the 70's, and was called >> (?) the 74-computer. >> >> Would love to see this articles again ... >> >> cheers > > > That design was somewhat strange, it used no clock, but relied on > handshaking for its timing. > It was also very inefficient in its hardware usage, using scores of > 74181`for hardware multiply and divide. > It had a choice of shiftregisters or 2102 as main memory. > > No PCB were produced. It was not for the fainthearded.... > > Jos Dreese > > 181's were priced at $3.75 in 1979, But micros were coming on strong and wiped the home brew ttl micros aside. I know. I built a ttl 181 / 189 based cpu and junked it for the altair. Jim Davis,. From lawrence at ljw.me.uk Sat Jan 17 17:26:34 2004 From: lawrence at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: <400742BA.5080304@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <1074201717.602.63.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> <400742BA.5080304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1074381412.4042.62.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 01:47, ben franchuk wrote: > Lawrence Wilkinson wrote: > (snip) > > There is more information, and a couple of photos, at: > > http://www.ljw.me.uk/educ8 > > Blah ... all window-eze stuff. Give me a PDF any time. Generating a PDF from the XML/Docbook file is left as an exercise for the reader. I've already done the HTML, use that for now. > How about sending me some photo copies of the magizine, > since I don't live in OZ. :) Hmmm, in case you missed it, neither do I. You can still get copies of the articles from Silicon Chip, for a fee. > Note you may be able to get the PCB's still from here. > http://www.cia.com.au/rcsradio/index1.htm > Ben. Maybe. Some of the parts are difficult to get, but it would be a nice construction project. -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Sat Jan 17 17:27:55 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074381493.4042.65.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 02:40, David V. Corbin wrote: ( regarding http://www.ljw.me.uk/educ8 ) > Cute little emulator... Two questions. > > 1) Can you release the source? Yes, I'll do a GPL version of it real soon now. Maybe the LEDs and Switches can be used by others :-) > 2) Are schematics for the original TTL implementation available? To get the original articles you would either have to buy reprints from Silicon Chip magazine, or look for a copy of the reprint book (probably very rare, I have one somewhere but I can't find it!) Internally, data flow is bit-serial (PDP-8/S style) which keeps the chip count down. This would certainly fit the bill for those wanting a 7400-based computer. Adding an RS-232 link wouldn't be difficult (a UART interface was one of the published peripherals) and it can be made to 'boot' from this, so saving a lot of switch twiddling. I am thinking of doing a VHDL description of the Educ-8, and that could lead on to making a CPLD/FPGA single-chip version. > Thanks. You're welcome, I hope it provides a bit of amusement. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jan 18 03:19:44 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: PDP11/24 & 3 RK07 on UK ebay Message-ID: <200401180919.JAA14499@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, There's a PDP11/34, three RK07s and 20+ platters on uk ebay right now. I don't have the space or any way of transporting it so I won't be bidding, but hopefully there's someone who'll appreciate it. Starting bid is 500 gbp. 14 hrs left...no bids so far. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3070793388&category=1479 -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Jan 18 03:12:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators In-Reply-To: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> References: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> Message-ID: <200401180921.EAA02542@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > As the discussion progressed, we decided that there are two types of > advanced computer users -system programmers and system > administrators. There are. (I'm not convinced there aren't other types.) > That in itself is debatable but where our discussion became bogged > down was when we tried to decide which user was left brain, and which > was right brain. [...] Here's my take on it. (Note that, for the sake of ease of discussion, I will accept without further comment your characterization of the brain hemispheres, though I am not convinced it's really correct.) Personally I'm not convinced that either of those two is any inherently more left-brained or right-brained than the other. A heavily lopsided person can be competent but not brilliant at either one, regardless of which hemisphere is dominant and which sort of person is under discussion...but to be really outstanding, I think, requires a significant contribution from both the left brain and the right brain: each is both an art and a science, and to shine at either requires being both artist and scientist. For all that, though, they are very different disciplines, and it's entirely possible to be a stellar sysadmin without being a more than reasonably competent programmer, and that much only in a certain class of languages; and it's entirely possible to be a stellar programmer without being an even minimally competent sysadmin. (Yes, this is not symmetric.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From spc at conman.org Sun Jan 18 03:23:27 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 17, 2004 11:53:40 PM Message-ID: <20040118092327.126691416D9A@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Vintage Computer Festival once stated: > > On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > I do, but it will take some time to get to the magazines in question (the > > article is in two parts), then scan them. It might be easier to see if a > > library (maybe a university one) has back issues of Byte. The articles > > appeared sometime in '85 or '86. > > > > -spc > > No closing comment? Couldn't think of one. It happens from time to time. -spc (Like now ... can't think of an appropriate closing line ... ) From spc at conman.org Sun Jan 18 03:42:24 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators In-Reply-To: <200401180921.EAA02542@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Jan 18, 2004 04:12:28 AM Message-ID: <20040118094224.D66431416D9A@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great der Mouse once stated: > > > As the discussion progressed, we decided that there are two types of > > advanced computer users -system programmers and system > > administrators. > > There are. (I'm not convinced there aren't other types.) > > > That in itself is debatable but where our discussion became bogged > > down was when we tried to decide which user was left brain, and which > > was right brain. [...] > > Here's my take on it. (Note that, for the sake of ease of discussion, > I will accept without further comment your characterization of the > brain hemispheres, though I am not convinced it's really correct.) And as both a programmer and a sysadmin, I can say that I do use both sides of my brain for both jobs. There is the logical, methodical use of the left side to track down problems, and there is the wierd, non-linear creativity of the right side that will present brilliant solutions to nasty problems [1]. > For all that, though, they are very different disciplines, and it's > entirely possible to be a stellar sysadmin without being a more than > reasonably competent programmer, and that much only in a certain class > of languages; and it's entirely possible to be a stellar programmer > without being an even minimally competent sysadmin. (Yes, this is not > symmetric.) It works for systems as well. I like to think I'm a stellar programming and sysadmin under Unix, but sit me in front of a Windows (or to be fair, VMS) and I'm totally lost, both programming and sysadmin wise (and my MS-DOS skills are a bit rusty, along with my AmigaOS and OS/2 skills). -spc (Although I still know what B8 00 4C CD 21 does ... ) [1] One of the more hairbrained ideas was a solution for small sites being slashdotted---set up a temporary redirect to the Google cache. That does assume that Google has in fact spidered your site, and that you have enough rights to configure the webserver to do temporary redirects. More about this at http://boston.conman.org/2003/01/10.1 I've also had to deal with a DDoS attack, and with some brainstorming (with a friend) was able to fend off the attack for several hours until the colocation center bitched about the traffic: http://boston.conman.org/2003/12/17.1 http://boston.conman.org/2004/01/4.2 Then there's the programming I did for my blog (wrote my own software). It's subtle, but I think it's a very neat solution to archiving a blog-like site: http://boston.conman.org/about/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 18 05:38:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: PDP11/24 & 3 RK07 on UK ebay In-Reply-To: <200401180919.JAA14499@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Stan Barr > Sent: 18 January 2004 09:20 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: PDP11/24 & 3 RK07 on UK ebay > > > Hi, > > There's a PDP11/34, three RK07s and 20+ platters on uk ebay right now. > I don't have the space or any way of transporting it so I won't be > bidding, but hopefully there's someone who'll appreciate it. > Starting bid is 500 gbp. 14 hrs left...no bids so far. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3070793388&ca > tegory=1479 I'd appreciate it lots, but a) I ain't got 500 quid knocking around and b) I'm more stuffed than a stuffed thing at christmas :-/ They don't say what's going to happen to it when the auction finishes either........I'd hate to think it would go to the dump!! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 18 05:42:08 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 18 January 2004 05:23 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 > > In which case you can check the +5V, +12V and -5V rails at pins on the > RAM chips. I'll be on it as soon as I've done my chores for today and painted a couple of doors :) > I will be very suprised if not all the RAM runs off the same supply > rails. In other words, you only need to check the voltages at one of the > RAM chips (assuming there are no cracked tracks on the mainboard, but I > wouldn't worry abnot that yet!). I was thinking ahead for any maintenance that'll be necessary.....to be honest I'd be amazed if there were cracks on the board - the whole internals are in beautiful condition. Dry joints possibly..... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jan 18 05:52:43 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: RA81 spindle sensor Message-ID: <1074426099.9420.28.camel@weka.localdomain> Ok, we took the HDA out of one of the RA81 drives yesterday. The bearings seem good - no excessive play - and we think the motor capacitor is fine. Some wear on the motor + HDA spindle pulleys, but the drive belt has a huge amount of grip so I don't think there's any belt slip problems. The front panel lights just indicate a "spin error", whilst the logic board status LEDs indicate a code of 01 - pointing at the spindle sensor. I made sure this was dust-free, but still no joy, so either it has gone bad or there's a fault with the logic board bolted to the top of the HDA itself (sensor seems more likely as we have two drives giving the same symptoms) The sensor appears to be optical in nature - with four wires (red, black, yellow and white). So: 1) Anyone know the connections to the device? If so we'll stick the output side on a 'scope next weekend and see if it outputs anything (of course we have no working unit to see what the waveform *should* look like, grr) 2) There are a couple of unknown-status RL01 and RL02 drives in store. Long shot, but anyone know if they use the same sensor in any part of their mechanism so we can do a temporary part swap with a (hopefully good) unit? 3) Anyone have a RA81 HDA in the UK that's suffered a head crash or other destruction and may yield a working sensor for us? :-) cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 18 05:45:34 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > Sent: 18 January 2004 05:58 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 > > Be happy! That glued in daughter board is likely a double density > adapter for your floppies. Well worth having. Ah, yes! That's what it is - this machine is the blue fronted mk II, the so-called 'military looking' one. One of the upgrades was DD floppies......well spotted! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jan 18 06:27:57 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: PDP11/24 & 3 RK07 on UK ebay In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:38:27 GMT." Message-ID: <200401181227.MAA19349@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, > > There's a PDP11/34, three RK07s and 20+ platters on uk ebay right now. ^^ It is, of course an 11/24 as per the subject - a bit of brain fade on my part. > They don't say what's going to happen to it when the auction finishes > either........I'd hate to think it would go to the dump!! That worried me too. But I'm so short of room I've had to rack my Micro 11/73 vertically to fit it in the available space! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de Sun Jan 18 04:41:50 2004 From: Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > thinking about it) were based on microprocessors. But I do remember a > Byte article on making a homebrew CPU (from TTL). I think it was called > 'EGO', and hung off a Tandy 2000. There has been a series of articles in the Elektor magazine from mid'74 until 1975 with the title "Computer 74". It was a real CPU that was built with SN74xx TTL parts. The Funkschau magazine showed the principles of a simple four species electronic calculator with transistors, this was in the late 60's. Christian From rcini at optonline.net Sun Jan 18 09:01:05 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options Message-ID: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> I pulled out my Model 100 the other day and discovered that the foam in the hard case has begun to disintegrate. The hard case is the Radio Shack original-issue hard case, so the foam is a pretty big size. I'm sure that others have experienced this already and I was searching for replacement options that didn't involve gluing together small pieces of foam to fit the case. Any thoughts? Has anyone found a foam supplier that can do small quantities? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From lists at microvax.org Sun Jan 18 09:11:45 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options In-Reply-To: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> References: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <200401181511.45920.lists@microvax.org> On Sunday 18 Jan 2004 3:01 pm, Richard A. Cini wrote: > I pulled out my Model 100 the other day and discovered that the foam in > the hard case has begun to disintegrate. The hard case is the Radio > Shack original-issue hard case, so the foam is a pretty big size. > > I'm sure that others have experienced this already and I was searching > for replacement options that didn't involve gluing together small pieces > of foam to fit the case. > > Any thoughts? Has anyone found a foam supplier that can do small > quantities? Try your local upholstery supplier/warehouse - they'll be used to supplying small amounts for cusions etc. The sort of foams you will get there should be flame-retardant too to conform to regulation. alex/melt From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jan 18 09:24:17 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options In-Reply-To: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> References: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <20040118152417.GA3189@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 10:01:05AM -0500, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Any thoughts? Has anyone found a foam supplier that can do small quantities? I never have. When I was working on VAXen/PDP-11s on a daily basis, 10+ years ago, we wanted to replace the thin foam that's in the front of many disk drives and CPU boxes, and the slightly thicker foam that's over the cabinet fans. We had to buy 4'x8' sheets. I think we used 10% of it to refurb several racks. Don't remember where we went, but it was some local plastics supplier. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-Jan-2004 15:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.1 F (-27.8 C) Windchill -63.4 F (-53 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16.5 kts Grid 022 Barometer 678.9 mb (10667. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Jan 18 09:28:47 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options In-Reply-To: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> References: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <400AA62F.50401@atarimuseum.com> Most Arts & Crafts shops sell foam in all shapes and sizes from large sheets to blocks. You can also look in furniture listings and find companies and replace foam cushions on furniture and you can get foam from them. Curt Richard A. Cini wrote: >I pulled out my Model 100 the other day and discovered that the foam in the >hard case has begun to disintegrate. The hard case is the Radio Shack >original-issue hard case, so the foam is a pretty big size. > >I'm sure that others have experienced this already and I was searching for >replacement options that didn't involve gluing together small pieces of foam >to fit the case. > >Any thoughts? Has anyone found a foam supplier that can do small quantities? > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ > > > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From rcini at optonline.net Sun Jan 18 09:50:49 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options In-Reply-To: <20040118152417.GA3189@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <001501c3ddda$d8bb52f0$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> >>When I was working on VAXen/PDP-11s on a daily basis, 10+ >>years ago, we wanted to replace the thin foam that's in the front of >>many disk drives and CPU boxes, and the slightly thicker foam that's >>over the cabinet fans. When I had my 11/34, I had the same problem. I went to Home Depot and got a package of air conditioning filter foam. It's the stuff behind the room-side grille in window A/Cs. It's easily cuttable to size and was about the same thickness. I also use different kinds of self-adhesive weatherstripping for the foam gaskets in the RK05 drives (around the fan motor for example). Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:24 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Foam replacement options On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 10:01:05AM -0500, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Any thoughts? Has anyone found a foam supplier that can do small quantities? I never have. When I was working on VAXen/PDP-11s on a daily basis, 10+ years ago, we wanted to replace the thin foam that's in the front of many disk drives and CPU boxes, and the slightly thicker foam that's over the cabinet fans. We had to buy 4'x8' sheets. I think we used 10% of it to refurb several racks. Don't remember where we went, but it was some local plastics supplier. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-Jan-2004 15:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.1 F (-27.8 C) Windchill -63.4 F (-53 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16.5 kts Grid 022 Barometer 678.9 mb (10667. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From paulpenn at knology.net Sun Jan 18 11:10:40 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: PIP-1 Computer (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) References: Message-ID: <006801c3dde5$ffed58e0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Tony Duell wrote: > Somewhere I have a Radio Shack book, a simple introduction to computing. > All I can remember about it is that it's landscape format, has a green > cover, and is spiral-bound along the top edge. > > Anyway, it contains a schematic for a very simple processor built from > TTL (IIRC). Simple, in that it has 16 locations of 8 bits for the program > memory, each 8 bit word is a 4 bit opcode and a 4 bit data memory address > IIRC. > > I ought to find said book and spend an enjoyable afternoon soldering it up... I have that book -- it's "Understanding Digital Computers" by Forrest M. Mims, III, from 1978. Unfortunately, he describes a "hypothetical" computer, the PIP-1, in chapter 8. There are diagrams throughout the book, but none for this computer. He claims to have built a "similar" computer himself using a dozen low-cost IC's, but this one was based on the book "Digital Computer Electronics" by Albert Paul Malvino, 1977. It might be possible to build a PIP-1 from the logical description in the book. Be sure and post a schematic if you do! Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From tponsford at theriver.com Sun Jan 18 08:40:09 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <01ad01c3dd4f$140606c0$0500fea9@game> References: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <01ad01c3dd4f$140606c0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <400A9AC9.4090407@theriver.com> I agree with Teoand the others on this thread. As someone who comes from a family that runs an antique business, mainly plate, glass, china collectibles, it is somewhat easier to find out what an old piece of glass, china, or even furniture is worth. Of course some people collect for sentimental reasons, and to them the cost to purchase an item is not important to them as they are not looking to resale soon, if ever. I am a computer collectible-hobbyist as I have a sentimental attachment to some computers I worked with 20-30 years ago when I was in college and later on in various careers. To me the value of finding old hardware that I used to actually work with outweighs the market value of these pieces. This is not to say I won't profit from an excess piece when I do sale an item, but more oftern than not, I would rather trade or give away than sell. I am one of the fortunate one, as I do not have to rely on real hapenstance to come across interesting old hardware items, either through dumpster diving, the ebay auction or giveaways. Rather I attend a really good university auction every two weeks where pallets of items that contain old hardware are routinely auctioned off for about $2.00 Indeed, I sometimes pay $10-20 dollars for items or pallets of seemingly old and useless 20 year old computer equipment, to keep it from going to the scrapper. As most of the bidders at these auctions are bidding for the more (in their opinion) useful PC's , they usually do not bid for the older equipment. Instead I must bid against the scrappers and junkers. Sometimes the pallets are indeed junk and the scrappers get their share, and sometimes it is physically impossible for me to buy everything I see worth saving. So instead I concentrated my salvage efforts to those areas and computer lines that I have the most interest in. I always like to tell the story of the box of 6 almost brand new Qbus scsi controllers I picked up for $2.00, as no one at the auction new what they were. Or the Northstar Horizon I picked up for $25. Or sadly, the complete pdp-10 that went to the scapper because I missed the auction that day. There are a lot of items that I know nothing about, some I save, some I don't. If it is really useless or no one wants it for the price of shipping I can always toss it, but a lot of stuff is stored away. The point is that a lot old computer equipment is routinely scrapped for gold, as the only salvage value a lot of computers had was in the gold they carried. As the stock of old computers are depleted, their intrinsic value as a collectible increases, at first to us the computer hobbysist, then later to the public as maybe a collectible. There have been several attempt to establish pricelines or priceguides for old equipment, but for one reason or another thay never took off or reached wide acceptance. A day will come when when collecting old computers will be an acceptable collectible item and books and guide will be published. Unfortunatly when that day comes, the cost of acquiring an old pdp may be 10-20x more than what we pay now. Cheers Tom Teo Zenios wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "vrs" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > >>>Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" >>> >>>And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F >>> >>>Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* >> >>I was just wondering...I know it is worth more to *us* before it is taken >>apart. >> >>Is it also true that it is worth more everywhere before it is taken apart? >>Or is it the case that someone will give more money to take it apart (for >>the gold, or whatever)? >> >>Does it matter if the machine is in working condition (so that a collector >>would pay top dollar), or if it is a dusty-rusty (perhaps already with >>pieces missing)? >> >>If so, does this indicate we are too cheap to save some of these machines? >>Bear in mind it will cost the time and effort to find a collector that is >>interested, etc. >> >> Vince >> > > > Very few people collect vintage computer equipment, there is no priceguide, > and there is no way to contact collectors direct even if you thought it was > collectable in the first place. If I find some old coins, guns, baseball > cards, stamps, Lionel trains, hummels, cars, gold, silver, records, all I > have to do to sell them is to hit the local pawnshop, put an add in a number > of auto traders, hit the coin/stamp/baseball shops, hummel shops, scarp > buyer, etc. There are dozens of pricequides for these items, and all except > cars can be easily stored in your house taking up little space. > > To a non collector an old mini or mainframe is nothing but a large piece of > obsolete equipment only worth its scarp value (steel, aluminum,copper, and > gold). The easiest thing to do is have it hauled away for scrap after you > rip out any major chips that look like they might have gold in them (cpu's > mostly). I remember maybe 10 years ago somebody who built computers and had > a photo shop (weird combination?) purchased a minicomputer the size of a > sideways refrigerator along with a few dozen diskless terminals that made up > the LAN. I asked him what he was going to do with all that stuff and he said > he would salvage the keyboards and monitors and resell those while the main > computer would be scrapped because the multiple cpu's had allot of gold in > them. I remember he said he got the whole lan for just a few dollars at > auction and that few people knew that the processors inside the huge machine > had a decent amount of gold in them. I bet quite a few people figured out > the gold aspect especially since gold prices were high at that time (has > gone up quite a bit last year or so also). So you had a machine nobody > wanted (he was the only guy who put in a bid) and was only purchased because > somebody knew about the gold value (filled the basement of his shop too). > > If you want to let people know this stuff is worth more then scrap you have > to make and publish a price guide showing common equipment at a few times > scrap value and machines that are rare at many multiples of their scrap > value (pull a number out of your ass basically). You have to include some > pictures so people know what the hell it looks like and put a few different > prices for different "grades" of preservation (collectors love this) also > include the little add-ons to the system and what they are worth. make sure > you list dozens of people in this book who are experts in appraising the > collectables (basically people here and what they collect plus their phone > numbers or email). After you put this together you print a few 100 copies > and send them to the local papers computer columnists and they will write an > article about it in the paper ( I am sure they are running out of crap to > print by now), maybe send a few copies to web magazines like Toms Hardware, > Anandtech, etc and they will put something up also, and lastly send a few to > the wall street journal. Once people think there is a market for this stuff > (hell if there is a priceguide there must be a huge market of suckers who > will buy it) they will end up digging around and finding system that they > will then end up wanting appraised by YOU (you will end up selling a few > catalogs in the process also). The only downside is that machines people > would normally pay you to take them away will now have to be purchased > (cause its worth money), that and you will find more collectors (more like > greedy dealers) in the market. > > Before you laugh quite a few small hobbies have exploded after people pulled > values out of nowhere and published price guides. The companies who made > priceguides for baseball cards and then after the explosion started grading > services probably make more cash then any dealer ever did. One guy did this > for old metal lunchpales and started a decent following. If you looked on > ebay lately you will notice quite a lot of mass produced 8/16 bit computers > selling way above any scrap value because a group of people started up the > retro computing craze. All those who get in before the boom end up making > cash at the very least and end up making sure those old machines don't end > up getting scrapped (same for books and software which could fill a catalog > in itself). Besides more people that get turned on to the hobby the more > people that can help you out with problems or pay for your knowledge. > > Just an idea... > > TZ > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 18 11:20:49 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini" "Foam replacement options" (Jan 18, 10:01) References: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <10401181720.ZM8572@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 18, 10:01, Richard A. Cini wrote: > I pulled out my Model 100 the other day and discovered that the foam in the > hard case has begun to disintegrate. The hard case is the Radio Shack > original-issue hard case, so the foam is a pretty big size. > > I'm sure that others have experienced this already and I was searching for > replacement options that didn't involve gluing together small pieces of foam > to fit the case. Is this foam for dust filtering? Or thin foam for holding boards in place? Or thick foam for cushioning against shock? For the first, I use the filter material sold for cooker hoods/extractors. It's cheap, available in many hardware stores and kitchen suppliers, and doesn't impede the air flow too much. It can also be pulled apart to get a half-thickness. For the other two, I go to the nearest upholstery shop, or any place that repairs furniture or car seats. They sell various densities and thicknesses, often cut to size, or in standard small quantities (like 15" or 18" square). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Jan 18 11:42:53 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401181242.53820.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 18 January 2004 02:53, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > I do, but it will take some time to get to the magazines in > > question (the article is in two parts), then scan them. It might > > be easier to see if a library (maybe a university one) has back > > issues of Byte. The articles appeared sometime in '85 or '86. > > > > -spc It's sept and oct 1985, I'll see if I can get them scanned today. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Jan 18 11:43:30 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? Message-ID: <200401181743.i0IHhUL09870@mwave.heeltoe.com> Anyone know if this story is true? http://www.phonehelp.com/p-1-50.htm (story about bell labs experiment where handset cords are made shorter and shorter and help desk calls are monitored to find 'knee' in help call curve to use as optimal length of handset cords) certainly a little off topic - if there is a better place/list someone can suggest I'm all ears. (alt.bell-labs.stories? :-) I'm pretty gullible, so I believed it the first time I read it. I ran into it again recently at this URL... -brad From stevew at ka6s.com Sun Jan 18 23:56:32 2004 From: stevew at ka6s.com (stevew) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Wyse 9000? Message-ID: <200401182156.32707.stevew@ka6s.com> Has anyone seen or do they HAVE the Wyse 9000 multiprocessor chassis? This was a machine built by Wyse around 1990 that was based on Sequent's bus technology that was a multi-processor system based on 386's or 486's running Sys V? Steve Wilson From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jan 18 11:54:39 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? In-Reply-To: <200401181743.i0IHhUL09870@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200401181240218.SM01048@bobdev> > Anyone know if this story is true? Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. For one, did they use the metric system back in the 50's? Especially in a US company... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 18 11:46:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: RA81 spindle sensor In-Reply-To: <1074426099.9420.28.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jan 18, 4 11:41:39 am Message-ID: > The sensor appears to be optical in nature - with four wires (red, > black, yellow and white). Yes, I beleive it's optical. Most of these sensors consist of an LED on one side and a phototransistor on the other. _Often_, the emitter of the phototrasistor is grounded, the collector is pulled to +5V by a relatively high resistor (>10k) and also goes to a gate input. The LED has a low-ish resistor (a few hundred ohms) in series and goes across the 5V line. So either one side of the LED is grounded, or one side goes to +5V. Can you see 2 pairs of wires going to oposite sides of the device -- one set for the LED, the other for the phototransistor? See if any of the wires go to logic ground. If only one does, it's a good bet it's the emitter of the phototransistor, and it's pair will be the collector -- the signal you want. If 2 do, then one is the emitter of the phototransistor, the other is the cathode of the LED. See if you can find the LED series resistor going to one of the other wires. The missing wire left over is then the one you want. > So: > > 1) Anyone know the connections to the device? If so we'll stick the See above ofr how I'd try to figure them out. > output side on a 'scope next weekend and see if it outputs anything (of > course we have no working unit to see what the waveform *should* look > like, grr) Well, you know what frequency it should be (#holes in the sensor disk * spindle speed). Look to see if you get a good waveform, swinging hard enough to switch whatever it feeds into, at that frequency. > > 2) There are a couple of unknown-status RL01 and RL02 drives in store. > Long shot, but anyone know if they use the same sensor in any part of > their mechanism so we can do a temporary part swap with a (hopefully > good) unit? I don't think they do. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 18 11:49:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:34 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options In-Reply-To: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> from "Richard A. Cini" at Jan 18, 4 10:01:05 am Message-ID: > > I pulled out my Model 100 the other day and discovered that the foam in the > hard case has begun to disintegrate. The hard case is the Radio Shack > original-issue hard case, so the foam is a pretty big size. A tip I got from Amateur Photographer magazine, relating to foam for camera cases, was to use a camper's sleeping mat. They're fairly hard foam, about 1cm thick, and are larger than any carrying case I've ever seen :-). And they're not too expensive. Dunno if this would work for the M100 case, but it might be worth a try. -tony From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Sun Jan 18 12:49:35 2004 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Stuff available, some free Message-ID: Hello all, I have the following items available. If you want one, send me an email OFF-LIST, and include your ZIP code (for shipping quotes). I'll take emails until Wednesday morning to be fair to all. I will use my patented name-in-a-hat method to resolve multiple people wanting the same items. I will contact all winners on Wednesday afternoon. Thanks! - (*FREE* + shipping) Wilson SX-503 Disk Exerciser. Good photo at http://www.wilsonlabs.com/testers/sx530p.htm. According to the website this item tests SMD Interface Disk Drives. It's about the width of an IBM PC case, but a little shorter, and a little thicker. I guesstimate somewhere around 25lbs or so in weight. Lights up when plugged in, but I have no manual, so I cannot test. Comes with all cables seen in the photo. As a bonus, it has a "Property of U.S Gov't DOT/FAA" sticker on it :-) - (*FREE* + shipping) - Paper trays for an HP LaserJet III (no idea if they'll fit other LaserJets)... 3 Letter, 1 Envelope, 1 Legal. All are working, but very worn and used. - (*FREE* + shipping) - Tecmar expansion chassis for IBM PC. Adds 7 8-bit slots. Comes with card and cables that go in the PC. Case has some scratches and light surface rust. About the size and shape of a PC case, and weighs a ton!! Never powered it up, so it's untested and as-is. No manuals... - (*FREE* + shipping) - Two font cartridges for HP LaserJet III (no idea if they'll work in other LaserJets) "Persuasive Presentations" and "Polished Worksheets" - ($5.00 + shipping) - Pacific Page PE Postscript Emulation Cartridge for HP LaserJet. Working condition. Label on back says "010570 REV G. VERSION 4.1" and "IIP Single Slot; IID/III/IIID Left Slot" - ($20.00 + shipping) - Intel series 310 Multibus I chassis. Picture at http://www.northwesttechnical.com/multibus/chassis/syp310.jpg No drives, no cards. Just chassis, power supply, backplane. Powered up at last use, about a year ago. About the size of an IBM PC case, and quite heavy. That's it for now ... If nobody wants them, they get trashed... Rich B. From als at thangorodrim.de Sun Jan 18 13:21:15 2004 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? In-Reply-To: <200401181240218.SM01048@bobdev> References: <200401181743.i0IHhUL09870@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200401181240218.SM01048@bobdev> Message-ID: <20040118192115.GA3111@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 12:54:39PM -0500, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > Anyone know if this story is true? > > Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. > > For one, did they use the metric system back in the 50's? Especially in a US > company... They obviously didn't. Looks like you missed the amount of daily phone cord snippage: 2.5 cm which nicely translates to one inch (ok, so the correct conversion factor would be 1 inch = 2.54 but 2.5 is correct enough in this example). Also, using this approximate of 2.5 cm to the inch, the 140 cm long phone cords turn out to be exactly 56 inch long. So it looks to me like the original story (not judging wether it was true or not) used inches and just the current telling of it was metrified. The measurements used in the story therefore look credible from the units point of view. Of course, the whole story itself can still be a lot of invented bollocks. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jan 18 13:45:31 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? References: <200401181743.i0IHhUL09870@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <001301c3ddfb$a1f19600$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> have not heard of that! bell labs employees were used to mold the shape of the first handset though... see: http://www.smecc.org/robert_nordenswan.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Parker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? > > Anyone know if this story is true? > > http://www.phonehelp.com/p-1-50.htm > > (story about bell labs experiment where handset cords are made shorter > and shorter and help desk calls are monitored to find 'knee' in help > call curve to use as optimal length of handset cords) > > certainly a little off topic - if there is a better place/list someone can > suggest I'm all ears. (alt.bell-labs.stories? :-) > > I'm pretty gullible, so I believed it the first time I read it. I ran > into it again recently at this URL... > > -brad > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jan 18 13:53:26 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: <002301c3dca7$b0b69230$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <01ad01c3dd4f$140606c0$0500fea9@game> <400A9AC9.4090407@theriver.com> Message-ID: <003f01c3ddfc$bd000ca0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> one though that will keep the numbers of people collecting relatively low is for the most part it helps to know how to work on them, and that is were we are in the minority! ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ponsford" To: ; "On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 7:40 AM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > I agree with Teoand the others on this thread. As someone who comes from a > family that runs an antique business, mainly plate, glass, china collectibles, > it is somewhat easier to find out what an old piece of glass, china, or even > furniture is worth. Of course some people collect for sentimental reasons, and > to them the cost to purchase an item is not important to them as they are not > looking to resale soon, if ever. > > I am a computer collectible-hobbyist as I have a sentimental attachment to > some computers I worked with 20-30 years ago when I was in college and later > on in various careers. To me the value of finding old hardware that I used to > actually work with outweighs the market value of these pieces. This is not to > say I won't profit from an excess piece when I do sale an item, but more > oftern than not, I would rather trade or give away than sell. > > I am one of the fortunate one, as I do not have to rely on real hapenstance to > come across interesting old hardware items, either through dumpster diving, > the ebay auction or giveaways. Rather I attend a really good university > auction every two weeks where pallets of items that contain old hardware are > routinely auctioned off for about $2.00 > > Indeed, I sometimes pay $10-20 dollars for items or pallets of seemingly old > and useless 20 year old computer equipment, to keep it from going to the > scrapper. As most of the bidders at these auctions are bidding for the more > (in their opinion) useful PC's , they usually do not bid for the older > equipment. Instead I must bid against the scrappers and junkers. Sometimes the > pallets are indeed junk and the scrappers get their share, and sometimes it is > physically impossible for me to buy everything I see worth saving. So instead > I concentrated my salvage efforts to those areas and computer lines that I > have the most interest in. I always like to tell the story of the box of 6 > almost brand new Qbus scsi controllers I picked up for $2.00, as no one at the > auction new what they were. Or the Northstar Horizon I picked up for $25. Or > sadly, the complete pdp-10 that went to the scapper because I missed the > auction that day. There are a lot of items that I know nothing about, some I > save, some I don't. If it is really useless or no one wants it for the price > of shipping I can always toss it, but a lot of stuff is stored away. > > The point is that a lot old computer equipment is routinely scrapped for gold, > as the only salvage value a lot of computers had was in the gold they carried. > As the stock of old computers are depleted, their intrinsic value as a > collectible increases, at first to us the computer hobbysist, then later to > the public as maybe a collectible. There have been several attempt to > establish pricelines or priceguides for old equipment, but for one reason or > another thay never took off or reached wide acceptance. A day will come when > when collecting old computers will be an acceptable collectible item and books > and guide will be published. Unfortunatly when that day comes, the cost of > acquiring an old pdp may be 10-20x more than what we pay now. > > Cheers > > Tom > > Teo Zenios wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "vrs" > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:51 PM > > Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781026641&category=1247 > > > >>>Not to mention the ebay id of "gold snipper" > >>> > >>>And the fine print says "pulled from a retired HP 2117F > >>> > >>>Don't these people know it's worth more together??? *sigh* > >> > >>I was just wondering...I know it is worth more to *us* before it is taken > >>apart. > >> > >>Is it also true that it is worth more everywhere before it is taken apart? > >>Or is it the case that someone will give more money to take it apart (for > >>the gold, or whatever)? > >> > >>Does it matter if the machine is in working condition (so that a collector > >>would pay top dollar), or if it is a dusty-rusty (perhaps already with > >>pieces missing)? > >> > >>If so, does this indicate we are too cheap to save some of these machines? > >>Bear in mind it will cost the time and effort to find a collector that is > >>interested, etc. > >> > >> Vince > >> > > > > > > Very few people collect vintage computer equipment, there is no priceguide, > > and there is no way to contact collectors direct even if you thought it was > > collectable in the first place. If I find some old coins, guns, baseball > > cards, stamps, Lionel trains, hummels, cars, gold, silver, records, all I > > have to do to sell them is to hit the local pawnshop, put an add in a number > > of auto traders, hit the coin/stamp/baseball shops, hummel shops, scarp > > buyer, etc. There are dozens of pricequides for these items, and all except > > cars can be easily stored in your house taking up little space. > > > > To a non collector an old mini or mainframe is nothing but a large piece of > > obsolete equipment only worth its scarp value (steel, aluminum,copper, and > > gold). The easiest thing to do is have it hauled away for scrap after you > > rip out any major chips that look like they might have gold in them (cpu's > > mostly). I remember maybe 10 years ago somebody who built computers and had > > a photo shop (weird combination?) purchased a minicomputer the size of a > > sideways refrigerator along with a few dozen diskless terminals that made up > > the LAN. I asked him what he was going to do with all that stuff and he said > > he would salvage the keyboards and monitors and resell those while the main > > computer would be scrapped because the multiple cpu's had allot of gold in > > them. I remember he said he got the whole lan for just a few dollars at > > auction and that few people knew that the processors inside the huge machine > > had a decent amount of gold in them. I bet quite a few people figured out > > the gold aspect especially since gold prices were high at that time (has > > gone up quite a bit last year or so also). So you had a machine nobody > > wanted (he was the only guy who put in a bid) and was only purchased because > > somebody knew about the gold value (filled the basement of his shop too). > > > > If you want to let people know this stuff is worth more then scrap you have > > to make and publish a price guide showing common equipment at a few times > > scrap value and machines that are rare at many multiples of their scrap > > value (pull a number out of your ass basically). You have to include some > > pictures so people know what the hell it looks like and put a few different > > prices for different "grades" of preservation (collectors love this) also > > include the little add-ons to the system and what they are worth. make sure > > you list dozens of people in this book who are experts in appraising the > > collectables (basically people here and what they collect plus their phone > > numbers or email). After you put this together you print a few 100 copies > > and send them to the local papers computer columnists and they will write an > > article about it in the paper ( I am sure they are running out of crap to > > print by now), maybe send a few copies to web magazines like Toms Hardware, > > Anandtech, etc and they will put something up also, and lastly send a few to > > the wall street journal. Once people think there is a market for this stuff > > (hell if there is a priceguide there must be a huge market of suckers who > > will buy it) they will end up digging around and finding system that they > > will then end up wanting appraised by YOU (you will end up selling a few > > catalogs in the process also). The only downside is that machines people > > would normally pay you to take them away will now have to be purchased > > (cause its worth money), that and you will find more collectors (more like > > greedy dealers) in the market. > > > > Before you laugh quite a few small hobbies have exploded after people pulled > > values out of nowhere and published price guides. The companies who made > > priceguides for baseball cards and then after the explosion started grading > > services probably make more cash then any dealer ever did. One guy did this > > for old metal lunchpales and started a decent following. If you looked on > > ebay lately you will notice quite a lot of mass produced 8/16 bit computers > > selling way above any scrap value because a group of people started up the > > retro computing craze. All those who get in before the boom end up making > > cash at the very least and end up making sure those old machines don't end > > up getting scrapped (same for books and software which could fill a catalog > > in itself). Besides more people that get turned on to the hobby the more > > people that can help you out with problems or pay for your knowledge. > > > > Just an idea... > > > > TZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 18 14:17:14 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? In-Reply-To: <200401181743.i0IHhUL09870@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brad Parker > Sent: 18 January 2004 17:44 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? > > Anyone know if this story is true? > > http://www.phonehelp.com/p-1-50.htm Doesn't sound too plausible to me, unless people are that stupid. What am I saying, I used to do second line phone and field support :) I'd guess there are elements of truth buried in that tale, though the last bit about some poor bloke hunched over a phone without complaining doesn't ring true. (heheh did you see what I did there?) There's a Dilbert cartoon where he goes down to marketing once a week to move some guy's cubicle wall in by 2 inches, but by the time Alice asks him why he can't remember. Hmm. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 18 14:35:07 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: why ? In-Reply-To: <40089AF6.31677.7F34CF10@localhost> Message-ID: <004c01c3de02$9bf966e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I realy don't know where you have a problem (BTW, plural > of Euro is still Euro, or if you insist, then it's at least > Eurii). The Euro is finaly back where the Mark once has been. Here in the UK it definitely seems to be Euros - maybe we'll switch if we ever join :-) Certainly in Italy the plural is "Euro" and if the signs in France are anything to go by, it's "Euro" there too (but that could just be their equivalent of the greegrocer's apostrophe!). Still, multiple hundreds of monetary units still seems to be a considerable amount to pay for a tape of unknown provenance and condition. (I know back in my first paying job the system manager would recycle old distribution tapes - I doubt he was the only one doing this!) Antonio From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 18 14:35:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Anyone know if this story is true? In-Reply-To: <200401181743.i0IHhUL09870@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > Anyone know if this story is true? > > http://www.phonehelp.com/p-1-50.htm > > (story about bell labs experiment where handset cords are made shorter > and shorter and help desk calls are monitored to find 'knee' in help > call curve to use as optimal length of handset cords) > > certainly a little off topic - if there is a better place/list someone can > suggest I'm all ears. (alt.bell-labs.stories? :-) Try comp.dcom.telecom. A lot of old-timers hang out there that might be able to confirm or refute this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Sun Jan 18 14:35:23 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Emulation (Was: Emulators of Classic Computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074457540.11541.52.camel@formula1.demon.co.uk> On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 02:40, David V. Corbin wrote: > 1) Can you release the source? The zip file has now been updated to include source, such as it is, under the GPL. http://www.ljw.me.uk/educ8/educ8.zip Have fun! -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 18 14:52:27 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004f01c3de04$fd8a2370$5b01a8c0@athlon> > That was next on the list :) I must advance plans to sell > things to let me get a good bench PSU and 'scope - watching > an electronics pro work on a machine the other day showed > just how important they are! I've scanned an Osborne tech guide that went up on the net somewhere, but I forget where :-( Maybe whoever it was will remember. Al has a similar one over at bitsavers.org. If you want the user guide, I've scanned that too, but it's a 200MB+ IIRC so you'll need plenty of ftp space handy if you want it! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 18 15:02:37 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: <004f01c3de04$fd8a2370$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] > Sent: 18 January 2004 20:52 > To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 > > I've scanned an Osborne tech guide that went up on the net somewhere, > but I forget where :-( Maybe whoever it was will remember. Al has > a similar one over at bitsavers.org. If you want the user guide, > I've scanned that too, but it's a 200MB+ IIRC so you'll need > plenty of ftp space handy if you want it! Thanks Antonio, Plenty of space on my FTP server so I'll bear that in mind but I'm not at that stage yet - it's still not very well :) cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 18 15:09:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > They are indeed 4116s, my comment on the glue gun was there > because 3/4 of > > In which case you can check the +5V, +12V and -5V rails at pins on the > RAM chips. All check out fine on multiple random tests, though I have to admit I'm sitting amongst the smell of singed plastic since it seems the interior of the machine has been metallised somewhat :-/ It didn't do that yesterday! Oh well, I'm still with the same problem.....fortunately I saw smoke before anything nasty happened! > rails. In other words, you only need to check the voltages at one of the > RAM chips (assuming there are no cracked tracks on the mainboard, but I > wouldn't worry abnot that yet!). OK, so far we have +5V, clock signal and active address and data lines, or at least my probe makes the expected noises once I found somewhere to get a good 5V supply from, so I'd say the CPU is running and I have a problem after that. Normally at this point I'd go for video RAM, but the only obvious culprits for that are a pair of 6116s that live on the other daughterboard that supplies the monitor, and I've swapped them round and swapped in a known good 6116 chip...... The prices of new 'scopes almost made me run to the hills :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 18 15:38:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <01ad01c3dd4f$140606c0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > Very few people collect vintage computer equipment, there is no priceguide, > and there is no way to contact collectors direct even if you thought it was > collectable in the first place. If I find some old coins, guns, baseball > cards, stamps, Lionel trains, hummels, cars, gold, silver, records, all I > have to do to sell them is to hit the local pawnshop, put an add in a number > of auto traders, hit the coin/stamp/baseball shops, hummel shops, scarp > buyer, etc. There are dozens of pricequides for these items, and all except > cars can be easily stored in your house taking up little space. You forgot to add the word "relatively" to everything you said here. > If you want to let people know this stuff is worth more then scrap you have > to make and publish a price guide showing common equipment at a few times > scrap value and machines that are rare at many multiples of their scrap That's been done, now what? > value (pull a number out of your ass basically). You have to include some No, you can--and I have done so many times--come up with a reasonable value range based on numerous readily ascertained factors. > pictures so people know what the hell it looks like and put a few different > prices for different "grades" of preservation (collectors love this) also > include the little add-ons to the system and what they are worth. make sure Ok, Mike Nadeau has done all this (_Collectible Microcomputers_, 2002, ISBN: 0-7643-1600-1). There was a previous attempt in 1994 by Thomas Haddock (_A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators_, ISBN: 0896890988) but his values were ridiculous in most cases. Now what? > you list dozens of people in this book who are experts in appraising the > collectables (basically people here and what they collect plus their phone That can only serve to skew the concept of values for this hobby even more. I wouldn't want just anyone quoting eBay prices as "values". It's better left to experts. > numbers or email). After you put this together you print a few 100 copies > and send them to the local papers computer columnists and they will write an > article about it in the paper ( I am sure they are running out of crap to > print by now), maybe send a few copies to web magazines like Toms Hardware, > Anandtech, etc and they will put something up also, and lastly send a few to Ok, there've been plenty of articles in the past couple years highlighting the collectability of old computers and attention to this hobby has certainly been raised several notches. Now what? > the wall street journal. Once people think there is a market for this stuff > (hell if there is a priceguide there must be a huge market of suckers who > will buy it) they will end up digging around and finding system that they > will then end up wanting appraised by YOU (you will end up selling a few > catalogs in the process also). The only downside is that machines people > would normally pay you to take them away will now have to be purchased > (cause its worth money), that and you will find more collectors (more like > greedy dealers) in the market. The biggest problem is unqualified people who have no business quoting "values" creating artificially inflated expectations of sales prices, which causes two problems: 1) the market is flooded with Commodore 64's that people are asking $500 for and 2) once they realize that they aren't going to sell it for that much their lofty expectations are dashed and, disillusioned, the item goes in the trash anyway. > Before you laugh quite a few small hobbies have exploded after people pulled > values out of nowhere and published price guides. The companies who made > priceguides for baseball cards and then after the explosion started grading > services probably make more cash then any dealer ever did. One guy did this Yes, and that's something I really want to avoid, because look at the state of the baseball card and comic book collecting hobbies (and their market values). > for old metal lunchpales and started a decent following. If you looked on > ebay lately you will notice quite a lot of mass produced 8/16 bit computers > selling way above any scrap value because a group of people started up the > retro computing craze. All those who get in before the boom end up making > cash at the very least and end up making sure those old machines don't end > up getting scrapped (same for books and software which could fill a catalog A bit of recent history: the artificial boom in the US technology stock market led to an artificial increase in values for old computers because a lot of artificial tech workers with artificial money threw a lot of it at computers that were artificially hyped up. Thus was begat the $2,500 Altair 8800. Now that the stock market has melted away and all the tech workers have gone back home, prices have receded (though not enough in most cases). Those who were smart, creative, and really didn't care about the technology itself, cashed in on the craze and made a small fortune. One dealer I spoke with mined the ham radio newsgroups and was able to procure more than half a dozen Altairs for very cheap (even free) and then sold each one to the above-mentioned stock-market-intoxicated techies for thousands of dollars each. Those who were more interested in preserving technology for historical posterity had to suffer the fools and wait out the frenzy until the inevitable "pop" (it made such a lovely sound). > in itself). Besides more people that get turned on to the hobby the more > people that can help you out with problems or pay for your knowledge. Must money always be a motivating factor? If I was really doing this for the money then I must be an idiot because I've sunk probably over $50K into this since I started collecting. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 18 15:43:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <400A9AC9.4090407@theriver.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, Tom Ponsford wrote: > A day will come when when collecting old computers will be an acceptable > collectible item and books and guide will be published. Unfortunatly > when that day comes, the cost of acquiring an old pdp may be 10-20x more > than what we pay now. Wow, I didn't realize computer collecting was unacceptable. And I guess these books on computer collecting that I own are figments of my own twisted imagination. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 18 15:50:35 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Field trip :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005601c3de0d$1b205230$5b01a8c0@athlon> Witchy wrote: > Rick Murphy wrote: > > I didn't know these were that rare. > > I have the two sets of MDM floppies (one 4 disk set, one 6) and the > > TK50. The TK50 is definitely the FS tape and I think the floppies are > > as well. Maybe they aren't that rare - maybe it's just that *I* don't have them or know of anyone who has them in case I do ever need them. > I think I've got both the customer MV diags on floppy and the > FS TK50 too. Perhaps it's time to see if the TZ30 in one of > the VAXen works..... Now is always a good time to check a TZ30 :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 18 15:55:50 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > :-)). In fact, I read somewhere that the PROMs can suffer > from bit-rot > where the fuses actually grow back. And of course the > transistors, etc, > in the address decoder and output buffers can fail. A few years ago I had a customer issue with a DSW42 synch card in a MicroVAX 3100-85; just one particular customer and one particular machine but with a group of different DSW42s. After the usual fiddling around I eventually reproduced the problem and sent a box across the Atlantic to the h/w team who were doing support for this. The answer came back that the PLD (IIRC) was bad and they'd had a preliminary report form the manufacturer indicating that for that particular batch of the suspect part "crystal regrowth" (or some similar phrase) was a known failure mode. I think if you wait long enough all ICs will fail, through solid-state diffusion if nothing else. At least with the off-the-shelf parts it will be possible (in principle) to remanufacture a facsimile. With modern ASICs (and probably FPGAs) this will be pretty hard to achieve. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 18 16:04:27 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005801c3de0f$0a719f00$5b01a8c0@athlon> > That was me, but what I actually said was that most DDS1 > drives won't > load a DDS2 tape. I can't remember the "official" name of > the feature, > but almost all 4mm drives do media-format detection, and will > just spit > out a tape larger than they rate for. I do recall that the DEC > firmware doesn't do that, but I'm still fairly sure it won't work. I don't know about other drives, but the TLZ04 will happily accept a 90m tape rather than the 60m ones it was designed for. I'm sure of that because of all the warnings that appeared once the 90m tapes became common, to the effect that using one in a TLZ04 would appear to work for about as long as it took for the head to wear away significantly. (It was never specified whether this would happen within a few passes or whether it might take a little longer. My TLZ04s were quite happy to chew 60m tapes so I never had a chance to feed one a 90m one :-)) I expect that later drives might have been more tolerant or careful, but I try to be nice the the TLZ09 I have now. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jan 18 16:28:45 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: Message-ID: <001801c3de12$6f578490$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK >The biggest problem is unqualified people who have no business quoting >"values" creating artificially inflated expectations of sales prices, >which causes two problems: 1) the market is flooded with Commodore 64's >that people are asking $500 for and 2) once they realize that they aren't >going to sell it for that much their lofty expectations are dashed and, >disillusioned, the item goes in the trash anyway > Must money always be a motivating factor? If I was really doing this for > the money then I must be an idiot because I've sunk probably over $50K > into this since I started collecting. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > Any long term hobby I have ever seen depends on hobbyists and dealers they feed on each other. If a guy can make a few bucks on the side saving and storing computers he will do it, this allows the collector to be able to find people with equipment to keep his hobby going. If there wasn't a market for corvette parts I wouldn't be able to keep mine running. I don't mind people making a few bucks from any hobby I ever got into because without them there is absolutely no motivation for people "not into" the hobby to keep from throwing things out. Any hobby goes through a phase where prices go from low to crazy levels followed by the cashout and implosion of pricing. But what you are left with is a stable group of collectors, reasonable prices, large amounts of collectable material that was dug out during the boom, lots of documentation, a set of grading outlines used by everyone, and documented dealers who stock the stuff your looking for and you know where to find them. Having a catalog published makes life allot easier for people just starting out in their hobby. You mentioned $500 c64's (assuming you meant on ebay) and how people toss them away when they cant get that much out of them. I purchased a c64, c128 on ebay for my collection and paid maybe 30-50 for each with quite a bit of other hardware and accessories. You can look on ebay every day and find reasonable (meaning somebody taking the time to dig an item out, clean it, test it as working or not, take a picture, and pay ebay its cut) prices on these items unlike the Vintage Computer Marketplace the only 1541 disk drive is listed for $50. Supply and demand from collectors looking at their checkbooks on a specific day decide what is overpriced and what is a deal, experts can only use their knowledge of the subject to give reasonable guesses at the time of publication what something is worth and which models are worth more then others. If items sell for more then you think they are worth then you just don't want it as bad as somebody else does. I have dumped a few dollars into my collection (haven't added it up don't want to either) and have no plan on selling any of it at this time (and I don't regret the expense either). From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 18 16:46:30 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Quicky SGI Question (skin removal) Message-ID: <1074465990.12247.13.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Hi, A quick question (should even be on topic... theoretically... ) I've a SGI Crimson, in a older PowerSeries 4D frame that I need to move from upstairs to downstairs. Looks alot like so: http://www.schrotthal.de/sgi/4d/440_powerseries.jpg Anyways, cause its little ol' me, I need to get it as light as possible, so I don't kill myself (or drop it) trying to get it down the stairs. I did _completely_ disassemble the thing to dust it, and get it upstairs in the first place. I've already pulled the boards/drives which relieves a lot of the weight, however, I also want to pull the PSU to relieve its weight, then hopefully I can carry the "carcass" downstairs by myself. However, for the life of me, I can't remember how the devil I got the skins off to get access to the PSU. (And I'm still "googling") Anyone know? Thanks, David PS: If this isn't quite on topic, my apologies, I'll quietly go back to poking and prodding... PPS: If it is on topic, and anyone has a set of proper red Crimson skins they'd like to unload, please let me know. :-) From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 18 16:46:38 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: RA81 spindle sensor References: <1074426099.9420.28.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <001101c3de14$ef612860$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have 4 RA81's in a single rack (it's a VERY heavy rack), 3 of which are marked "Bad HDA". Plus I have some others loose. So if Jules or anyone else wants some parts scavenged from one of the ones marked "bad hda" just let me know. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:41 AM Subject: RA81 spindle sensor > Ok, we took the HDA out of one of the RA81 drives yesterday. The > bearings seem good - no excessive play - and we think the motor > capacitor is fine. Some wear on the motor + HDA spindle pulleys, but the > drive belt has a huge amount of grip so I don't think there's any belt > slip problems. > > The front panel lights just indicate a "spin error", whilst the logic > board status LEDs indicate a code of 01 - pointing at the spindle > sensor. > > I made sure this was dust-free, but still no joy, so either it has gone > bad or there's a fault with the logic board bolted to the top of the HDA > itself (sensor seems more likely as we have two drives giving the same > symptoms) > > The sensor appears to be optical in nature - with four wires (red, > black, yellow and white). > > So: > > 1) Anyone know the connections to the device? If so we'll stick the > output side on a 'scope next weekend and see if it outputs anything (of > course we have no working unit to see what the waveform *should* look > like, grr) > > 2) There are a couple of unknown-status RL01 and RL02 drives in store. > Long shot, but anyone know if they use the same sensor in any part of > their mechanism so we can do a temporary part swap with a (hopefully > good) unit? > > 3) Anyone have a RA81 HDA in the UK that's suffered a head crash or > other destruction and may yield a working sensor for us? :-) > > cheers > > Jules > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 18 16:58:23 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted Message-ID: <004f01c3de16$931e0210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Finally cleaning out around the house, started with the PeeCee junk. It's in a pile next to the trash, let me know if anyone needs any of this, quick, I want it gone! Cost = Shipping (shipping included) :) All these are ide hard drives, most all western digital caviars, a couple quantum & fuji five 2.0gb two 2.1gb three 2.5gb five 1.6gb (figured some might want these for SBC6120 projects, probably 95% of these drives work, one or two may be bad) CTS 212AH modem - didn't know if this might be old enough to be collectable Mitsumi CD with non-ide interface card Several quad speed ide cd's a 5.25 1.2mb floppy drive Many misc cards that go in 486 type systems - serial/parallel I/O cards, sound cards, modems, etc. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 18 17:09:34 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted In-Reply-To: <004f01c3de16$931e0210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: Jay, Have my own pile of "Pee"Cee stuff here, but if any DEC equipment gets anywhere near that pile, please contact me! David V. Corbin dvcorbin@optonline.net 631-244-8487 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 18 17:15:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 18, 4 09:09:28 pm Message-ID: > > > > They are indeed 4116s, my comment on the glue gun was there > > because 3/4 of > > > > In which case you can check the +5V, +12V and -5V rails at pins on the > > RAM chips. > > All check out fine on multiple random tests, though I have to admit I'm > sitting amongst the smell of singed plastic since it seems the interior of > the machine has been metallised somewhat :-/ It didn't do that yesterday! Oh Err, what???? > well, I'm still with the same problem.....fortunately I saw smoke before > anything nasty happened! And from where did this (magic) smoke come? You do, of course, realise that it's smoke that makes electronic devices work -- when the smoke comes out they stop working. > > > rails. In other words, you only need to check the voltages at one of the > > RAM chips (assuming there are no cracked tracks on the mainboard, but I > > wouldn't worry abnot that yet!). > > OK, so far we have +5V, clock signal and active address and data lines, or Did you check the other voltages at the RAM chips (-5V on pin 1, +12V on pin 8, +5V on pin 9, ground on pin 16)? > at least my probe makes the expected noises once I found somewhere to get a > good 5V supply from, so I'd say the CPU is running and I have a problem > after that. Normally at this point I'd go for video RAM, but the only > obvious culprits for that are a pair of 6116s that live on the other 6116s are normally darn reliable. If those _are_ the video RAMs, are you getting activity on their address and data lines? In other words, is the video timing chain running. What, if anything, do you get on the screen? -tony From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 18 17:25:23 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) References: Message-ID: <000901c3de1a$5920bea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> After the PeeCee stuff, I will probably start going through my DEC stuff and offering a lot to the list (probably some RA81's, maybe some RL02's, definitely some 11/23 type systems, racks, chassis, might be an empty 11/34 chassis in very poor condition, etc.). HP stuff (HP1000 stuff) will be offered soon too. At the very least I will be offering 4 nice HP racks, probably some 21MX cpu's, definitely some 7906 drives, 13037 boxes, maybe a 2100 chassis that's been scavenged for spares if anyone wants it). Yes, I have the "clean the house and trim down the extras from the collection bug". Please don't email me about the DEC & HP stuff yet. Just giving an idea what might be going. I will definitely post that stuff to the list before scrapping it. Also available - HP T1000 tape drive for cost of shipping. Don't think you can buy tapes for these anymore though (TR1). Next posting will be a lot of PC small dot matrix printers. Epson, Star, etc. Also have a bunch of old pc monitors that will be hitting the trash, not gonna post those! Yes, I know a lot of this is barely 10 years old, and certainly not collectable in MY opinion. I just want the space back. But before I send it to the dumpster I just wanted to make sure I wasn't tossing something someone here might look for. I mean, it's not easy to find Vesa Local Bus cards anymore! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:09 PM Subject: RE: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted > Jay, > > Have my own pile of "Pee"Cee stuff here, but if any DEC equipment gets > anywhere near that pile, please contact me! > > David V. Corbin > dvcorbin@optonline.net > 631-244-8487 > > > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jan 18 17:31:45 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) References: <000901c3de1a$5920bea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <005b01c3de1b$3cae6050$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:25 PM Subject: Re: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) > After the PeeCee stuff, I will probably start going through my DEC stuff and > offering a lot to the list (probably some RA81's, maybe some RL02's, > definitely some 11/23 type systems, racks, chassis, might be an empty 11/34 > chassis in very poor condition, etc.). HP stuff (HP1000 stuff) will be > offered soon too. At the very least I will be offering 4 nice HP racks, > probably some 21MX cpu's, definitely some 7906 drives, 13037 boxes, maybe a > 2100 chassis that's been scavenged for spares if anyone wants it). Yes, I > have the "clean the house and trim down the extras from the collection bug". > Please don't email me about the DEC & HP stuff yet. Just giving an idea what > might be going. I will definitely post that stuff to the list before > scrapping it. > > Also available - HP T1000 tape drive for cost of shipping. Don't think you > can buy tapes for these anymore though (TR1). > > Next posting will be a lot of PC small dot matrix printers. Epson, Star, > etc. Also have a bunch of old pc monitors that will be hitting the trash, > not gonna post those! > > Yes, I know a lot of this is barely 10 years old, and certainly not > collectable in MY opinion. I just want the space back. But before I send it > to the dumpster I just wanted to make sure I wasn't tossing something > someone here might look for. I mean, it's not easy to find Vesa Local Bus > cards anymore! > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > Any Amiga stuff hitting the trash (Atari ST, apple IIgs, etc)? From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 18 17:41:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <001801c3de12$6f578490$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > Any long term hobby I have ever seen depends on hobbyists and dealers they > feed on each other. If a guy can make a few bucks on the side saving and > storing computers he will do it, this allows the collector to be able to > find people with equipment to keep his hobby going. If there wasn't a market This hobby is somewhat unique in that for the most part dealers really don't have a necessary place in it. One can do just fine (and I know many people who did and do) simply putting in the sometimes minimal effort it takes to dig up some nice old computer for their collection. > for corvette parts I wouldn't be able to keep mine running. I don't mind > people making a few bucks from any hobby I ever got into because without > them there is absolutely no motivation for people "not into" the hobby to > keep from throwing things out. Agreed, and as one can go to a dealer to find a missing part for their Corvette, one can also as easily go to a scrap yard or look through car trader papers to find the part they need as well. It just depends on how much time you want to put into it. Dealers can make things easier, but they don't necessarily make the impossible possible. > Any hobby goes through a phase where prices go from low to crazy levels > followed by the cashout and implosion of pricing. But what you are left with > is a stable group of collectors, reasonable prices, large amounts of > collectable material that was dug out during the boom, lots of > documentation, a set of grading outlines used by everyone, and documented > dealers who stock the stuff your looking for and you know where to find > them. Having a catalog published makes life allot easier for people just > starting out in their hobby. We'll see. Computer collecting hasn't really followed that scenario. The hobby has been stable before and after the stock market boom, and none of the structure you mention has been put in place. Efforts have been made (the Vintage Computer Marketplace is one step in that direction, though more to connect buyer with seller and do away with the need for the "middle man", i.e. the Internet is the middleman) but as far as refining this hobby in terms of dealers stocked with the specific parts you're looking for, I don't see that happening. Maybe for specific machines (DEC) or being able to offer general items as they come in, but nothing like you have with the classic automotive enthusiast. But I see this as going from hobby to important academic pursuit rather than to just a favored pastime (as, say, cars have done). > You mentioned $500 c64's (assuming you meant on ebay) and how people toss > them away when they cant get that much out of them. I purchased a c64, c128 > on ebay for my collection and paid maybe 30-50 for each with quite a bit of > other hardware and accessories. You can look on ebay every day and find > reasonable (meaning somebody taking the time to dig an item out, clean it, > test it as working or not, take a picture, and pay ebay its cut) prices on > these items unlike the Vintage Computer Marketplace the only 1541 disk drive > is listed for $50. Yeah, we got our share of nincompoops too (and we're working on ways to weed out that sort of thing), but in terms of volume of overpriced crap, eBay reigns. > Supply and demand from collectors looking at their > checkbooks on a specific day decide what is overpriced and what is a deal, Yes, it is still a hobby afterall. > experts can only use their knowledge of the subject to give reasonable > guesses at the time of publication what something is worth and which models > are worth more then others. Which is why good price guides give ranges and are periodically and regularly updated. > If items sell for more then you think they are > worth then you just don't want it as bad as somebody else does. True. And equally true, the selling price may also reflect ignorance on the part of the buyer. > I have dumped a few dollars into my collection (haven't added it up don't > want to either) and have no plan on selling any of it at this time (and I > don't regret the expense either). Me niether. Except when it's 11pm and I'm trying to pull that last pallet off the loading dock and I'm tired and dirty and I still have one more load to go. Regret is a funny. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 18 18:32:33 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted In-Reply-To: <004f01c3de16$931e0210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004f01c3de16$931e0210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040119002227.GI25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jay West, from writings of Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 04:58:23PM -0600: > All these are ide hard drives, most all western digital caviars, a couple > quantum & fuji > five 2.0gb > two 2.1gb > three 2.5gb > five 1.6gb > (figured some might want these for SBC6120 projects, probably 95% of these > drives work, one or two may be bad) If any of these are still left, please let me know. > CTS 212AH modem - didn't know if this might be old enough to be collectable Surely someone may find that to be collectible---is it the same vintage as the Bell 212 modems? (I've got a couple of the Bell modems and auto-dialers :-) > a 5.25 1.2mb floppy drive Someone could use that in a classic system that uses 8" floppies... might be a good backup if the 8" floppy fails and needs a temporary replacement while it's being repaired. > Many misc cards that go in 486 type systems - serial/parallel I/O cards, > sound cards, modems, etc. If you put them in a box and save them in a trust for your great great great grand children, they'll probably be worth a fortune by then. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jan 18 18:24:49 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: Message-ID: <006601c3de22$a6a8cac0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > This hobby is somewhat unique in that for the most part dealers really > don't have a necessary place in it. One can do just fine (and I know many > people who did and do) simply putting in the sometimes minimal effort it > takes to dig up some nice old computer for their collection. > > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > This is where I think location happens to be more important then effort expended. If your in computer technology heaven (California silicon valley) you probably trip over more equipment then I could find around here (vintage equipment that is). PatrickFinnegans friend with the $2M IBM machine for $21.20 just happens to hit the Purdue University auctions which is hard for people not in that area to do on a regular basis. Your hobby has a business side to it, mine doesn't. My collecting is mostly in the 80's to 90's personal computer era (stuff I always wanted and didn't have the cash at the time), not the industrial mini -mainframe equipment so unloading pallets isn't something I normally do. Stuff you wouldn't even look at I would probably want. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 18 18:36:10 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options In-Reply-To: <200401181511.45920.lists@microvax.org> References: <001401c3ddd3$e617c020$6601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> <200401181511.45920.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <20040118203250.GH25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe meltie, from writings of Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 03:11:45PM +0000: > Try your local upholstery supplier/warehouse - they'll be used to supplying > small amounts for cusions etc. The sort of foams you will get there should > be flame-retardant too to conform to regulation. Fabric stores are also a good place to try, as well as hardware stores for other types of foam (e.g., foam air conditioner filters). -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 18 18:45:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: PUTR, port? Message-ID: <004701c3de25$984ac8e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Any thought been given to porting PUTR to FreeBSD/Linux/Unix??? Was hoping to use it but really don't want to install a dos partition on my Unix PC. Other solutions out there? Jay From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 18 19:01:38 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) In-Reply-To: <000901c3de1a$5920bea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <000901c3de1a$5920bea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040119005819.GJ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jay West, from writings of Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 05:25:23PM -0600: > etc. Also have a bunch of old pc monitors that will be hitting the trash, > not gonna post those! As to old PC monitors, don't forget: there are lots of useful parts inside, from inductors to fuses, wire-wound resistors, wires, heat sinks, connectors, HV capacitors, etc. The same goes for PC power supplies. Worth the few minutes or so it takes to scavenge parts from them. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Jan 18 18:59:12 2004 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) In-Reply-To: <20040119005819.GJ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sunday, January 18, 2004, at 07:58 PM, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Jay West, from writings of Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 05:25:23PM > -0600: >> etc. Also have a bunch of old pc monitors that will be hitting the >> trash, >> not gonna post those! > > As to old PC monitors, don't forget: there are lots of useful parts > inside, from inductors to fuses, wire-wound resistors, wires, heat > sinks, connectors, HV capacitors, etc. The same goes for PC power > supplies. Worth the few minutes or so it takes to scavenge parts from > them. Definitely. I've scavenged lots of good parts from broken PC monitors and stuff. The average old VGA monitor has a bunch of very usable parts in it, and most of the failures seem to be connection or flyback related, and almost all of the parts I've salvaged (capacitors, resistors, fuses, etc.) have been good. BTW - if you find any monochrome/CGA/EGA PC monitors, don't toss them, people like me are looking for them! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 18 19:32:31 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) References: Message-ID: <001301c3de2c$1b661cb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > BTW - if you find any monochrome/CGA/EGA PC monitors, don't toss them, > people like me are looking for them! > > Ian Primus I am sure I have lots of working VGA monochrome 14" monitors. I may well have some EGA ones, I'll check on the latter before pitching. Jay From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 18 19:56:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <006601c3de22$a6a8cac0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > This is where I think location happens to be more important then effort > expended. If your in computer technology heaven (California silicon valley) > you probably trip over more equipment then I could find around here (vintage > equipment that is). PatrickFinnegans friend with the $2M IBM machine for > $21.20 just happens to hit the Purdue University auctions which is hard for > people not in that area to do on a regular basis. Your hobby has a business > side to it, mine doesn't. The business side of my happen is a more recent phenomena, and was brought about out of necessity. But still, you're discounting many opportunities that exist for finding old computers. In areas where it hasn't been traditionally tech heavy, that means you either need to drive farther, or find the places you've overlooked. Schools, colleges and universities are all excellent places to look into as they are usually getting rid of older technology through sales or just by scrapping it. Your task is to find out where the stream is going and get yourself situated in front of that stream. Here are some more ideas: http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 > My collecting is mostly in the 80's to 90's personal computer era (stuff I > always wanted and didn't have the cash at the time), not the industrial > mini -mainframe equipment so unloading pallets isn't something I normally > do. Stuff you wouldn't even look at I would probably want. If that's the case then you should have it easier than most of us. Especially if you're after 1990s era stuff. You should be able to find that just about anywhere. If not, you're definitely not looking hard enough. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 18 20:12:43 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Estimated Value of an ASR-33.... Message-ID: Looking for peoples estimate of the value of an ASR-33 with working paper tape reader/punch (and of course keyboard/print), modem is quite optional. I am starting to search for one to add to my collection and am not sure what price range is reasonable these days.... Also if anyone has one that they want to sell (especially if located in North East US), please contact me directly. David Corbin dvcorbin@optonline.net From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jan 18 20:11:21 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: Message-ID: <00b901c3de31$88568080$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:56 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > > If that's the case then you should have it easier than most of us. > Especially if you're after 1990s era stuff. You should be able to find > that just about anywhere. If not, you're definitely not looking hard > enough. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > I have found just about everything I wanted system wise (you can never have enough software unfortunately) using various means. Some of the add-ons I haven't acquired yet because I want to find them a bit cheaper (Don't like paying $100+ for a simple scsi add-on to my amiga 500 as an example). After playing around with Desqview/X on the PC and A/UX 3 on my aws95 I might be heading into collecting a Unix workstation (who knows where this might go) so checking out a university might be next on the list. I am sure as time passes I will drift into different areas of computing. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 18 20:22:49 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <1038018B-4934-11D8-AA18-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> <400A2921.4040403@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <400B3F79.5060106@jetnet.ab.ca> Jim Davis wrote: > 181's were priced at $3.75 in 1979, But micros were coming on strong > and wiped the > home brew ttl micros aside. I know. I built a ttl 181 / 189 based cpu > and junked it for > the altair. > Jim Davis,. How ever I don't like the 32/16/8 bit INTEL crap. I don't like FPGA's because you don't have Source Code for programing them.I don't like TTL because you need several large PCB's and a 20+ amp power supply. I don't care for UNIX and clones because they don't have a clean GUI. No comment on the CRAPPY GUI OS's. I am not happy with the current computer stuff. I liked CLASSIC computers because it looked like average people could own and USE a computer. I liked the idea of home-brew for that reason. Now with TTL becoming outdated I would like to design something usefull with it while I can still buy it. I have FPGA board here, but it is outdated and I need a new software license every few months. Mind you with the high speed transistors out, how fast and how much money would a ECL style PCB similar in size and function as DEC FLIP/CLIP? Ben. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 18 20:32:32 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> Antonio Carlini wrote: > I think if you wait long enough all ICs will fail, > through solid-state diffusion if nothing else. At > least with the off-the-shelf parts it will be possible > (in principle) to remanufacture a facsimile. With > modern ASICs (and probably FPGAs) this will be pretty > hard to achieve. > > Antonio > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) That is the major difference between IC's and the earlier generations of computers. That is part of the reason real classic computers have a better chance of sticking around, as you can still make parts like core memory for a modest amount of $ compared to anything with a IC in it. Ben. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 18 20:44:56 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Although it has been quite a while since I have seen many commercial firms that will fabricate or repair core memory for anything like a reasonable price.... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of ben franchuk Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:33 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers Antonio Carlini wrote: > I think if you wait long enough all ICs will fail, > through solid-state diffusion if nothing else. At > least with the off-the-shelf parts it will be possible > (in principle) to remanufacture a facsimile. With > modern ASICs (and probably FPGAs) this will be pretty > hard to achieve. > > Antonio > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) That is the major difference between IC's and the earlier generations of computers. That is part of the reason real classic computers have a better chance of sticking around, as you can still make parts like core memory for a modest amount of $ compared to anything with a IC in it. Ben. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 18 20:50:35 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: PUTR, port? In-Reply-To: <004701c3de25$984ac8e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004701c3de25$984ac8e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: >Any thought been given to porting PUTR to FreeBSD/Linux/Unix??? Was hoping >to use it but really don't want to install a dos partition on my Unix PC. >Other solutions out there? > >Jay As I recall it's pure x86 ASM code, porting it is likely to be rather difficult, which isn't to say impossible. Will it run under stuff like WinXP? Err... I guess it's kind of useless on such systems since you really need a 1.2MB 5 1/4" floppy, and if a system is running WinXP, the odds are it doesn't have one. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Jan 18 21:16:37 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) Message-ID: <0401190316.AA10131@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jay West wrote: > Also have a bunch of old pc monitors that will be hitting the trash, > not gonna post those! If there are any original IBM (not clone) VGA monitors or cards, I would be very interested, so don't trash those please! MS From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 18 21:24:54 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: Message-ID: <400B4E06.9020902@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > Although it has been quite a while since I have seen many commercial firms > that will fabricate or repair core memory for anything like a reasonable > price.... Who said 'Commercial' any where in the post. Many people collect and repair classic computers for the LOVE of doing it. Ben. From lsprung at optonline.net Sun Jan 18 21:32:57 2004 From: lsprung at optonline.net (lance sprung) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: 1959 Brainiac K-30 listed on ebay Message-ID: If you need one for your collection, I thought someone might find this listing of interest. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781740056 If anyone has any other Berkeley Enterprise items for sale, please let me know. I would also like to purchase a number of other early computer artifacts. Any suggestions besides ebay? Can I submit a "want list" to this group? Thank you for your time. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 18 21:37:22 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:35 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400B4E06.9020902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Do you know of ANYONE who has the proper tools for re-threading a core plane? The last contact I had was a small manufacturing company here on LI, but that dried up about 8 years ago. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of ben franchuk Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:25 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Emulators of Classic Computers David V. Corbin wrote: > Although it has been quite a while since I have seen many commercial firms > that will fabricate or repair core memory for anything like a reasonable > price.... Who said 'Commercial' any where in the post. Many people collect and repair classic computers for the LOVE of doing it. Ben. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 18 21:48:51 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040118194335.W36136@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Do you know of ANYONE who has the proper tools for re-threading a core > plane? PRODUCTION? NO. Repair of a single core plan? Absolutely! The size of the beads will determine what size needle threaded with wire to use. Early planes used beads so large that you can re-thread t hem with sewing needles! From marvin at rain.org Sun Jan 18 21:54:22 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Core memory repair References: Message-ID: <400B54EE.85FE00B4@rain.org> "David V. Corbin" wrote: > > Do you know of ANYONE who has the proper tools for re-threading a core > plane?out 8 years ago. I sold some DataRam Core memory modules a couple of years ago, and did some searching for information. While I don't remember the contact, I do remember the process :). I called DataRam and they gave me the number of someone who sold and maintained their old core memory products. This was in 1999 or so IIRC. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 18 21:54:00 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computers - Classic parts References: Message-ID: <400B54D8.9080100@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > Do you know of ANYONE who has the proper tools for re-threading a core > plane? > > The last contact I had was a small manufacturing company here on LI, but > that dried up about 8 years ago. No, now may be the time to do the leg work and collect the tools. I am sure that core memory can be repaired but it needs to be done under a microscope with fine tools. People who use core memory, I don't think have a the knowlage of where or how to find replacement parts since most core memory is chopped up for sale on ebay. :( Does anybody have a stockpile of cores and driver transitors and driver IC's. Ben. From spc at conman.org Sun Jan 18 22:24:39 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: PUTR, port? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jan 18, 2004 06:50:35 PM Message-ID: <20040119042439.89EEF1416D9A@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated: > > >Any thought been given to porting PUTR to FreeBSD/Linux/Unix??? Was hoping > >to use it but really don't want to install a dos partition on my Unix PC. > >Other solutions out there? > > > >Jay > > As I recall it's pure x86 ASM code, porting it is likely to be rather > difficult, which isn't to say impossible. Will it run under stuff like > WinXP? Err... I guess it's kind of useless on such systems since you > really need a 1.2MB 5 1/4" floppy, and if a system is running WinXP, the > odds are it doesn't have one. One friend of mine, in the mid-90s, was hired to help port a MS-DOS application to Unix. Most of the application was already in C, but with a non-trivial portion in Assembly (mostly the I/O subsystem). My friend just basically translated the x86 code to C, pretty much as straight a translation as possible. So a routine like: get_current: push es push bx push cx push di mov es,[video_seg] mov bx,offset tank_sel mov cx,4 xor si,si get_c10: mov di,[bx+si] cmp byte ptr es:[di],_tank_ind je get_c20 inc si inc si loop get_c10 mov si,-1 get_c20: pop di pop cx pop bx pop es ret Would get translated as something like: int get_current(void) { char *es; int *bx; int cx; int si; int di; es = video_seg; bx = &tank_sel; cx = 4; si = 0; for ( ; cx ; cx--) { di = bx[si]; if (es[di] == TANK_IND) return(si); si++; } return(-1); } Not the greatest of C code, but it works and is a start in porting the code to other systems. -spc (Then later the code can be cleaned up ... ) From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 18 23:13:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: 1959 Brainiac K-30 listed on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, lance sprung wrote: > If you need one for your collection, I thought someone might find this > listing of interest. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781740056 Those come up fairly regularly on eBay. Usually for $100 or more, but sometimes they can be had for cheaper if the hordes of fad collectors are otherwise distracted. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From david at dynamicconcepts.us Sun Jan 18 19:28:24 2004 From: david at dynamicconcepts.us (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: ASR-33 Value.... Message-ID: Looking for peoples estimate of the value of an ASR-33 with working paper tape reader/punch (and of course keyboard/print), modem is quite optional. I am starting to search for one to add to my collection and am not sure what price range is reasonable these days.... Also if anyone has one that they want to sell (especially if located in North East US), please contact me directly. David Corbin dvcorbin@optonline.net From david at dynamicconcepts.us Sun Jan 18 19:49:52 2004 From: david at dynamicconcepts.us (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Estimated Value of an ASR-33.... Message-ID: Looking for peoples estimate of the value of an ASR-33 with working paper tape reader/punch (and of course keyboard/print), modem is quite optional. I am starting to search for one to add to my collection and am not sure what price range is reasonable these days.... Also if anyone has one that they want to sell (especially if located in North East US), please contact me directly. David Corbin dvcorbin@optonline.net From r.mueller at fz-juelich.de Sun Jan 18 05:22:49 2004 From: r.mueller at fz-juelich.de (R. Mueller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Foam replacement options Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040118121359.0295e480@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> There is some hidden wisdom here! There are several plastics used for making foam. One of these is polyurethane, others are polypropylene and polyethylene. I have often thought that manufacturers who put high valued goods in polyurethane should be responsible for the repairs even after 30 years; this stuff is often terrible, turning to either dust or paste, neither of which is good for a camera or a computer. The paste variety is very hard to completely remove. Conversely, those camping mats can be made of PP or PE, which I have never seen undergoing the transformation into a viscous liquid. You computer should still be clean after you pass it on to the next generation. Bob Message: 5 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:49:35 +0000 (GMT) From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Foam replacement options To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain > > I pulled out my Model 100 the other day and discovered that the foam in the > hard case has begun to disintegrate. The hard case is the Radio Shack > original-issue hard case, so the foam is a pretty big size. A tip I got from Amateur Photographer magazine, relating to foam for camera cases, was to use a camper's sleeping mat. They're fairly hard foam, about 1cm thick, and are larger than any carrying case I've ever seen :-). And they're not too expensive. Dunno if this would work for the M100 case, but it might be worth a try. -tony . From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 06:33:34 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And from where did this (magic) smoke come? You do, of course, realise > that it's smoke that makes electronic devices work -- when the smoke > comes out they stop working. Oh yes :) It was very weird - I've not come across conductive plastic before! I had the motherboard resting the right way up on the thick plastic sheet (mylar?) that covers the bottom of the power supply and the underside of the top part of the case, also plastic. The magic smoke was bits of the plastic melting where it came into contact with the RAM chips, so either the plastic is conductive or it just happens to be that the 2 or 3 chips in contact with the plastic are dead and overheating enough to melt it! Doesn't seem like it's done any physical damage fortunately, and the screen still shows the same garbage it did before. > > OK, so far we have +5V, clock signal and active address and > data lines, or > > Did you check the other voltages at the RAM chips (-5V on pin 1, +12V on > pin 8, +5V on pin 9, ground on pin 16)? Yup, I was talking about the Z80 up there. > If those _are_ the video RAMs, are you getting activity on their address > and data lines? In other words, is the video timing chain running. Haven't checked. I'll grab the data sheet for the 6116 and have a look. > What, if anything, do you get on the screen? Garbage, but the same garbage every time I switch on, so it could be bad RAM or I suppose a bad ROM in that the CPU is trying to address the ROM and clear the screen but it can't? It's actually an identical problem to my TRS80 model 1. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Mon Jan 19 04:43:10 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401181242.53820.pat@computer-refuge.org>; from pat@computer-refuge.org on Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 12:42:53PM -0500 References: <200401181242.53820.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040119114310.A22981@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 12:42:53PM -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sunday 18 January 2004 02:53, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > I do, but it will take some time to get to the magazines in > > > question (the article is in two parts), then scan them. It might > > > be easier to see if a library (maybe a university one) has back > > > issues of Byte. The articles appeared sometime in '85 or '86. > > > > > > -spc > > It's sept and oct 1985, I'll see if I can get them scanned today. Thanks for the pointer. Obtained a copy just now from our library archive. Hmmm, looking at it, it looks to me difficult to rebuild that thing, just because many of the TTLs used there are now obsolete and hard to get (this holds for the also mentioned "Computer 74" from Elektor magazine which I have as well). Examples of such chips are (from the EGO), at a first glance: 74100, 74381, 74189 Particularly the latter is a problem, as it is also used in the SWTPC 6809 computer. I do know of the AM29701 as a replacement for it, but this is also a scarce resource (bgmicro). Anyone has still sources (and not unreasonably expensive) for 74S189 or 74F189? Holger From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jan 19 07:22:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074517893.1324.33.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 12:33, Witchy wrote: > > And from where did this (magic) smoke come? You do, of course, realise > > that it's smoke that makes electronic devices work -- when the smoke > > comes out they stop working. > > Oh yes :) It was very weird - I've not come across conductive plastic > before! I had the motherboard resting the right way up on the thick plastic > sheet (mylar?) that covers the bottom of the power supply and the underside > of the top part of the case, also plastic. I made that mistake with a Mac PSU that had failed the other day - the nearest thing to lay it out on in order to measure a few voltages was the underside of the plastic lid to the Mac. Note to self: The shielding paint or whatever it is they use on the underside of the lid is quite nicely conductive. Whoops :-) (Yes, I was half-asleep that day) cheers Jules From chrisc at addpower.com Mon Jan 19 07:31:07 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: >Then it's high time somebody produced a _real_ computer kit. As in a pile >of standard logic chips (no microoprocessors, no programmed devices, no >FPGAs, although I will allow RAM :-)).... I would really, really like to see something like this...it'd help me getting started with learining electronics, which is something I've really wanted to do and not had any practical time to do. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 08:08:01 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: <1074517893.1324.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 19 January 2004 13:12 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 > > Note to self: The shielding paint or whatever it is they use on the > underside of the lid is quite nicely conductive. Whoops :-) (Yes, I was > half-asleep that day) Yup, that's what I realised whilst wafting the smoke away! w From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Jan 19 08:14:07 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: MSCP Spec questions Message-ID: <200401190914.07954.pat@computer-refuge.org> So, is there a document anywhere that explains the 'programmatic' interface to MSCP-type controllers (or for any particular controllers)? And I'm looking for disk MSCP not TMSCP. Basically, I'd like something that explains the registers, command packets, etc. for hardware like a RQDX3 or KDA50 or... Any help is greatly appreciated. I tried with little luck on google last night to find thist kind of stuff. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 19 08:26:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: Message-ID: <000f01c3de98$3d4f2c60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Which is why good price guides give ranges and are > periodically and regularly updated. >> If items sell for more then you think they are worth then >> you just don't want it as bad as somebody else does. > True. And equally true, the selling price may also > reflect ignorance on the part of the buyer. Sellam, It's simple. Keep a complete history of VCM sales and make it open for customers to browse. John A. From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 19 08:36:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) References: <000901c3de1a$5920bea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20040119005819.GJ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <004a01c3de99$9972b560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Quothe Jay West, from writings of Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 05:25:23PM -0600: > etc. Also have a bunch of old pc monitors that will be hitting the trash, > not gonna post those! Locating your best area Goodwill is a nice way to get rid of those. The one nearest to me takes no PC's at all, but when I travel a bit (40 miles) for other purposes I can stop in at one that does. John A. From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 19 08:47:27 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) References: <0401190316.AA10131@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <006101c3de9b$28e37bc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > If there are any original IBM (not clone) VGA monitors or > cards, I would be very interested, so don't trash those please! I have an original IBM PS/2 series VGA monochrome monitor free to the first taker. It must be gone in 14 days. John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jan 19 09:07:05 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 Message-ID: <00e701c3de9d$e7b3fc30$61406b43@66067007> Check it out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779174663 From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 09:10:47 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040119114310.A22981@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> Message-ID: <20040119151047.63455.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> A quick search on the web shows many venders offering these parts for around $2 to $3/each. Don't know if you consider that unreasonably expensive. --- Holger Veit wrote: >Anyone has still > sources (and not > unreasonably expensive) for 74S189 or 74F189? > > Holger > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jan 19 09:11:29 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Digi Comp 1 still open on eBay Message-ID: <00f301c3de9e$84dfe2d0$61406b43@66067007> Someone is selling a Digi Comp 1 on eBay right now it's at $100 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3169710286 From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 19 09:35:08 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? In-Reply-To: <00e701c3de9d$e7b3fc30$61406b43@66067007> References: <00e701c3de9d$e7b3fc30$61406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> Did anyone catch that show the other night, I Tivo'd it, and it was kinda cool hearing from the founders, nothing really new was mentioned or covered, they did really razz Bill Gates about his whiny letter to the Homebrew Club about them pirating MS Basic and such. Curt]] Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 09:43:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <00e701c3de9d$e7b3fc30$61406b43@66067007> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Keys > Sent: 19 January 2004 15:07 > To: cctalk@classiccmp > Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > > > Check it out > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779174663 Never produced? I thought they were.....might not've sold too well because they were basically the not-very-good Aquarius 1 with some extra ROM/RAM, BASIC keywords and the proper keyboard. They were nothing to do with Mattel either 'cos Mattel lost so much money with the Aquarius 1 they begged Radofin (the manufacturer) to take the whole lot back, lock stock and barrel and write Mattel out of the contract. This was after only 3 or 4 months :) Hmm. Muchos googling tells me they really weren't sold.....no wonder I've never seen one at a car boot sale! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Mon Jan 19 09:31:52 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: ; from chrisc@addpower.com on Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 07:31:07AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 07:31:07AM -0600, Christopher Cureau wrote: > > > >Then it's high time somebody produced a _real_ computer kit. As in a pile > >of standard logic chips (no microoprocessors, no programmed devices, no > >FPGAs, although I will allow RAM :-)).... > > I would really, really like to see something like this...it'd help me > getting started with learining electronics, which is something I've really ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tssss. Not to discourage you, but a TTL computer with bazillions of ICs is not really suited for newbies, although there is plenty to learn - namely on those nasty aspects like circuit timing, delays, glitches, noise on power and signal lines. TTL is to a large degree analog, not digital, circuit development ;-) You might not directly want to start with a monster like Computer 74 or EGO, but perhaps with a simple ALU/register device: get a 2901 circuit from BG-Micro and play a bit with it (a breadboard with lots of switches and LEDs is sufficient). And then extend it with a 2909/-10/-11 from the same source and build the micro control for that toy. This is already the basic step towards an own homegrown system. > wanted to do and not had any practical time to do. :-) If time is your limiting factor, it will be your limiting factor here as well. Holger From Steven_R_Hutchins at raytheon.com Mon Jan 19 08:02:06 2004 From: Steven_R_Hutchins at raytheon.com (Steven_R_Hutchins@raytheon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question Message-ID: Thanks, seems like when I turned the intensity up on the CIT-101 video terminal the error was "checksum error NVR 00" and the error was there, even with the MINC-23 off. NVRAM in the terminal must be bad. I replaced the C.ITOH model CIT-101 video terminal with a DIGITAL VT-102, I get the flashing cursor in the upper left hand corner of the VT-102 with no errors in NVRAM , but the terminal does not talk to the MINC-23. I am not familiar with how the MINC communicates to the terminal. I have baud rate on VT-102 set at 9600 for both RX and TX. I do not see even an echo on my keystrokes on the VT-102. I have no docs on the terminal or the MINC. Can I use a PC running hyperterm or procomm to talk with the MINC? The M8012 boot card has 5 LEDs, red,green,red,red,red and all of them are continuously illuminated. What are the functions assigned for these LEDs? Hutch ard@p850ug1.demon. co.uk (Tony Duell) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent by: cc: cctech-bounces@cla Subject: Re: DEC MINC-11 question ssiccmp.org 01/16/2004 06:26 PM Please respond to "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" > > > > > > Classic comp lister's, > > I have MINC-11 ( seems to be a MINC-23 in a MINC-11 box) with the The field upgrade from MINC-11 to MINC-23 was basically just swapping the CPU card. Sounds like somebody (not DEC failed circus?) did this and didn't change the nameplate. > following: > It only has these cards inside: > M8186 CPU > M7506 MEM > M8029 RX02 DISK CONT > M7954 IEEE CONT > M8043 4510 MUX Card > M8012 Boot Card > > This was a working unit until recently when I consistantly get > "checksum error KVR 00" on bootup. That doesn't sound like a DEC bootstrap message. Are you sure it's coming from the MINC and not from whatever you're using as a terminal? -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 11:07:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <00e701c3de9d$e7b3fc30$61406b43@66067007> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Keys wrote: > Check it out > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779174663 For fairly good reason. As lame as that computer was, folks like me who first learned to program on them are fanatics about it. If I had the money last year when a complete Aquarius II system with the exceedingly rare disk drive, 4-color printer and other goodies sold for over $500 (I think it might have been as high as $700) I would have dropped that. I'm fairly sure there are less than 100 Aquarius II computers in existence. Radofin test marketed them around the world but the product got canceled before it sold in any sort of numbers. I have one that I got by way of Australia from a developer there who was writing a teletext system on it. I never realized that they were actually sold in stores until I came across the one that sold last year. In fact, the guy who apparently got the rest of the stuff from that developer (through a third party) can be found here: http://members.aol.com/paparotcy/aquarius/protos.html ...including the 1541 disk drive adapter wedge. The one that just closed on eBay was bought by the seller at a store in Finland in 1984. So they were sold in stores, but in VERY limited numbers. Here's the most recently updated Aquarius FAQ: http://www.digitpress.com/faq/aquarius.txt -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 11:08:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? In-Reply-To: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > Did anyone catch that show the other night, I Tivo'd it, and it was > kinda cool hearing from the founders, nothing really new was mentioned > or covered, they did really razz Bill Gates about his whiny letter to > the Homebrew Club about them pirating MS Basic and such. I caught the first and last 5 minutes of it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Mon Jan 19 11:17:56 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: EPROM eraser needed Message-ID: <000201c3deb0$2e566490$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Anybody have a spare eprom eraser for sale? Don't need anything fancy. Please reply direct, since I'm on the Digest mailer. Thanks. Jack From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 11:21:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <000f01c3de98$3d4f2c60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Which is why good price guides give ranges and are > > periodically and regularly updated. > > >> If items sell for more then you think they are worth then > >> you just don't want it as bad as somebody else does. > > > True. And equally true, the selling price may also > > reflect ignorance on the part of the buyer. > > Sellam, > It's simple. Keep a complete history of VCM sales > and make it open for customers to browse. You got it. Although we haven't yet made it public (we're still working on things) we are unlike that "other" in that we will keep the values in perpetuity and we will make them available. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 19 11:28:01 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 References: Message-ID: <00a801c3deb1$96c9c890$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Keys wrote: > > > Check it out > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2779174663 > > For fairly good reason. > > As lame as that computer was, folks like me who first learned to program > on them are fanatics about it. If I had the money last year when a > complete Aquarius II system with the exceedingly rare disk drive, 4-color > printer and other goodies sold for over $500 (I think it might have been > as high as $700) I would have dropped that. > > I'm fairly sure there are less than 100 Aquarius II computers in > existence. Radofin test marketed them around the world but the product > got canceled before it sold in any sort of numbers. > > I have one that I got by way of Australia from a developer there who was > writing a teletext system on it. I never realized that they were actually > sold in stores until I came across the one that sold last year. > > In fact, the guy who apparently got the rest of the stuff from that > developer (through a third party) can be found here: > > http://members.aol.com/paparotcy/aquarius/protos.html > > ...including the 1541 disk drive adapter wedge. > > The one that just closed on eBay was bought by the seller at a store in > Finland in 1984. So they were sold in stores, but in VERY limited > numbers. > > Here's the most recently updated Aquarius FAQ: > > http://www.digitpress.com/faq/aquarius.txt > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > Well I feel better now reading how bad the aquarius bombed (I purchased a Timex 2068 in 1983 which didn't do to well either but had better specs then the aquarius). Still have it here somewhere. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 12:12:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <00a801c3deb1$96c9c890$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > Well I feel better now reading how bad the aquarius bombed (I purchased a > Timex 2068 in 1983 which didn't do to well either but had better specs then > the aquarius). Still have it here somewhere. For what it was it wasn't a bad little machine. Just imagine a computer marketed by a toy company and that's what this was. The keyboard was a "chiclet" variety, just barely useable, and the BASIC language was adequate, barely, especially after taking more than 2K for itself and leaving you with less than 2K to actually write programs in. But it did include a full complement of tightly integrated peripherals. The data recorder, the 40-column thermal printer, the expansion module that allowed an extra RAM carthridge (required by most games). It also had a modem and some terminal software. I was able to write games for it (crappy ones but games nonetheless) and also wrote a database program to manage my comic book collection (stored on cassette). And, I learned how to program on it. It was a serious attempt at making a user friendly computer system. If it wasn't so under-powered and limited it might have been passable. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cncmedic at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 19 12:15:09 2004 From: cncmedic at sbcglobal.net (John lambert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: EPROM eraser needed In-Reply-To: <000201c3deb0$2e566490$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <20040119181509.95175.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> JACK --- CHEAP QUICK EPROM ERASER-- SANYO DENKI GERMICIDAL ULTRAVIOLET LAMP NO. G6T5 WITH ADVANCE TRANSFORMER CO. NO. LC-4-8-C BALLAST 120 V. AN FS-4 FLOURESENT STARTER. A RECEPTACLE TIMER TO CONTROL LENGTH OF TIME LAMP IS ON. MOUNT LAMP 2.5 CM ABOVE PROMS LOCATION IN AN ENCLOSED LIFT LID BOX. A LIMIT SWITCH ON THE LID TO SHUT LAMP OFF WHEN LIFTED. SAFETY MEASURE THAT LAMP WILL BURN YOUR RETINA'S. JACK AT ESHOP. --- Jack Rubin wrote: > Anybody have a spare eprom eraser for sale? Don't > need anything fancy. > Please reply direct, since I'm on the Digest mailer. > Thanks. > > Jack > From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jan 19 13:22:57 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question Message-ID: <040119142257.2692e@splab.cas.neu.edu> If I remember correctly, the MINC-11 is just a Q-bus machine with extra analog/digital I/O for laboratory work. The standard serial I/O on every DEC machine I've used has been just 3-wire (recieve,transmit, ground), XON/XOFF, 9600 baud, no parity, 8 bits. You can use Hyperterm IF you set it up for software handshaking. If you forget to change it, then the default is hardware handshaking and hyperterm will appear hung. the m8012 (BDV-11) has two switches on the edge, halt enable and restart. Halt enable is used to put it into ODT. Lights: The green led is power ok. if all 4 red leds are on, then the system is hung; halt switch or power up mode wrong. At least that is the message in the interfaces handbook. Make sure your VT102 is not in local mode, they like to switch to that sometimes. Joe Heck From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 19 12:42:58 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: EPROM eraser needed Message-ID: <200401191842.KAA17815@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John lambert" > >JACK --- CHEAP QUICK EPROM ERASER-- > SANYO DENKI GERMICIDAL ULTRAVIOLET LAMP > NO. G6T5 WITH ADVANCE TRANSFORMER CO. NO. LC-4-8-C >BALLAST 120 V. AN FS-4 FLOURESENT STARTER. A >RECEPTACLE TIMER TO CONTROL LENGTH OF TIME LAMP IS ON. >MOUNT LAMP 2.5 CM ABOVE PROMS LOCATION IN AN ENCLOSED >LIFT LID BOX. A LIMIT SWITCH ON THE LID TO SHUT LAMP >OFF WHEN LIFTED. SAFETY MEASURE THAT LAMP WILL BURN >YOUR RETINA'S. JACK AT ESHOP. Hi Actually it doesn't hurt your retina, it damages your cornea. This frequency of uv doesn't penetrate very far into the eye. This means that extra care is needed since it isn't just a matter of looking at the light. Any direct path from the lamp to the surface of your eye can cause damage. Most reflected uv light is attenuated quite a bit and is not as dangerous but one should still design their box to avoid reflective surfaces like aluminum. Even though 90% or so is lost, these lights are intense. Cardboard or conductive foam has about 0% reflections. One can get an idea of the reflected quantity by placing a piece of 'T'shirt near. It will glow if hit by the uv. Dwight From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 12:44:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 19 January 2004 18:13 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > > For what it was it wasn't a bad little machine. Just imagine a computer > marketed by a toy company and that's what this was. The keyboard was a > "chiclet" variety, just barely useable, and the BASIC language was > adequate, barely, especially after taking more than 2K for itself and > leaving you with less than 2K to actually write programs in. Imagine how much memory you'd have had left if they'd left the FOR...NEXT loop in the BASIC interpreter! The aquarius was perhaps unfairly labelled as 'the computer for the 70s' :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From paul at frixxon.co.uk Mon Jan 19 13:18:02 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400C2D6A.2030707@frixxon.co.uk> Steven_R_Hutchins@raytheon.com wrote: > > Thanks, seems like when I turned the intensity up on the CIT-101 video > terminal the error was > "checksum error NVR 00" and the error was there, even with the MINC-23 off. > NVRAM in the terminal must be bad. Try going into Setup and saving. If that doesn't clear the error, the NVR needs replacing. It's an ER2055 or equivalent, according to the Maintenance Manual. -- Paul From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Jan 19 13:09:03 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) In-Reply-To: <004a01c3de99$9972b560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <000901c3de1a$5920bea0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20040119005819.GJ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <004a01c3de99$9972b560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040119140607.024208f0@mail.n.ml.org> Goodwill Poughkeepsie/Wappingers Falls did until the local fire inspector/building inspector deemed the building unsafe due to over 30 separate roof leaks and a piece of the roof falling through (a good 1-2ft chunk). Got a perfectly fine (works and all) HP DeskJet 820Cxi For Windows Professional Series ink jet printer for a mere $6. -John At 09:36 AM 1/19/2004, you wrote: >Quothe Jay West, from writings of Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 05:25:23PM -0600: > > etc. Also have a bunch of old pc monitors that will be hitting the trash, > > not gonna post those! > >Locating your best area Goodwill is a nice way to get rid of those. >The one nearest to me takes no PC's at all, but when I travel a bit >(40 miles) for other purposes I can stop in at one that does. > >John A. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 13:56:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > Imagine how much memory you'd have had left if they'd left the > FOR...NEXT loop in the BASIC interpreter! The aquarius was perhaps > unfairly labelled as 'the computer for the 70s' :) What? I don't remember not having FOR/NEXT. I'll have to check my manual. PS. Fix your mailer! Yours are the only messages that default to reply to you and the list (boo!) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 13:57:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040119140607.024208f0@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Goodwill Poughkeepsie/Wappingers Falls did until the local fire > inspector/building inspector deemed the building unsafe due to over 30 > separate roof leaks and a piece of the roof falling through (a good 1-2ft > chunk). Got a perfectly fine (works and all) HP DeskJet 820Cxi For Windows > Professional Series ink jet printer for a mere $6. OT, but I have half a dozen of 800 series HP printers in perfect fine order if someone wants to make an offer of $25 each plus shipping. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Jan 19 14:21:24 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: MSCP Spec questions In-Reply-To: <200401190914.07954.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > So, is there a document anywhere that explains the 'programmatic' > interface to MSCP-type controllers (or for any particular controllers)? > And I'm looking for disk MSCP not TMSCP. Basically, I'd like something > that explains the registers, command packets, etc. for hardware like a > RQDX3 or KDA50 or... > > Any help is greatly appreciated. I tried with little luck on google > last night to find thist kind of stuff. Difficult to find. Also, the MSCP documentation will, and will not, tell you what you need. MSCP is a packet-based communication protocol. The MSCP specs. will describe the packets. How exactly you send those packets, and what additional information is wrapped around them is controller specific, and is dealt with in the programming manuals for that controller. So, the MSCP manuals don't describe any registers, or stuff like that. MSCP is very abstract for a hardware oriented person. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jan 19 14:30:12 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> Message-ID: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...learning electronics...] > Tssss. Not to discourage you, but a TTL computer with bazillions of > ICs is not really suited for newbies, although there is plenty to > learn - namely on those nasty aspects like circuit timing, delays, > glitches, noise on power and signal lines. TTL is to a large degree > analog, not digital, circuit development ;-) Once, years ago, I was involved in building a designed-on-the-spot Qbus board. We actually managed to convince ourselves we had a bad 74123 for a while - until the replacement misbehaved exactly the same way. (There must have been coupling issues somewhere; adding caps on the power rails made the problem go away.) > You might not directly want to start with a monster like Computer 74 > or EGO, but perhaps with a simple ALU/register device: get a 2901 > circuit from BG-Micro and play a bit with it (a breadboard with lots > of switches and LEDs is sufficient). And then extend it with a > 2909/-10/-11 from the same source and build the micro control for > that toy. Good advice. Start simple. My first major piece of TTL hackery was a little toy 4-bit microprocessor; the most complicated single chip used was a 4-bit ALU whose 74xxx number I forget by now. (Oh, and a chip which was basically a 16-word static RAM with 4-bit words.) I was fortunate enough to have a _really_ _nice_ breadboard to work with. None of this wish-board stuff; it had individual IC sockets with very nice machined contacts, and the wires had little stackable plugs (a bit like banana plugs done tiny) on the ends of them. All contacts were gold-plated. I shudder to think what they cost the University, but they were _so_ pleasant to use. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 19 14:37:39 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) References: Message-ID: <002301c3decc$14d7fda0$0500fea9@game> How much would it cost to ship one of those things to Ohio? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:57 PM Subject: Re: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) > On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > > > Goodwill Poughkeepsie/Wappingers Falls did until the local fire > > inspector/building inspector deemed the building unsafe due to over 30 > > separate roof leaks and a piece of the roof falling through (a good 1-2ft > > chunk). Got a perfectly fine (works and all) HP DeskJet 820Cxi For Windows > > Professional Series ink jet printer for a mere $6. > > OT, but I have half a dozen of 800 series HP printers in perfect fine > order if someone wants to make an offer of $25 each plus shipping. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jan 19 14:40:14 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: MSCP Spec questions In-Reply-To: <200401190914.07954.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <002f01c3decc$82138d80$5b01a8c0@athlon> > So, is there a document anywhere that explains the 'programmatic' > interface to MSCP-type controllers (or for any particular > controllers)? > And I'm looking for disk MSCP not TMSCP. Basically, I'd like > something > that explains the registers, command packets, etc. for > hardware like a > RQDX3 or KDA50 or... There's one on http://www.pdp11.nl but that's down until Fred gets back to tend to it. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 14:49:49 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 19 January 2004 19:57 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > > > On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > Imagine how much memory you'd have had left if they'd left the > > FOR...NEXT loop in the BASIC interpreter! The aquarius was perhaps > > unfairly labelled as 'the computer for the 70s' :) > > What? I don't remember not having FOR/NEXT. I'll have to check my > manual. That's according to the review I've got here and also from several Aquarius based websites. Maybe they fixed it, but I doubt that they'd have had time in the 3 months they were selling it :) > PS. Fix your mailer! Yours are the only messages that default to reply to > you and the list (boo!) Nothing to do with me I don't think - I'm on bog-standard outlook 2000 here and haven't changed settings for years. It started happening when Jay upgraded the mailman software on the server and the reply addresses became things like 'cctalk-bounces' and the like. None of the other lists I'm part of do that...... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 15:09:42 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: Save this equipment for the dump!!! 48hrs ONLY! In-Reply-To: <036101c3dc5d$6f82d3e0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: > I am taking this stuff down to the dump Monday morning if someone doesn't > pick it up and arrange for it to be picked up by someone local by the end of > Sunday: Next time, drop it off in my driveway. I am on the way to the dump anyway. And I won't charge you nearly as much... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 15:16:37 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If so, does this indicate we are too cheap to save some of these machines? For the older machines, yes. Once a machine gets about 30 years old, the scrap value starts climbing fast. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 15:19:25 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:36 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) In-Reply-To: <20040119005819.GJ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > As to old PC monitors, don't forget: there are lots of useful parts > inside, from inductors to fuses, wire-wound resistors, wires, heat > sinks, connectors, HV capacitors, etc. The same goes for PC power > supplies. Worth the few minutes or so it takes to scavenge parts from > them. Interestingly, the thing that is worth the most in old PeeCee power supplies is the fan screen. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 15:23:08 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040118194335.W36136@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > Repair of a single core plan? Absolutely! > The size of the beads will determine what size > needle threaded with wire to use. > Early planes used beads so large that you can re-thread t > hem with sewing needles! Core planes are (were) often threaded without needles - there just wasn't enough room in each core for a needle once the first two (or three) wires were strung. The wire itself is the needle. IBM invented a very simple solution - the wire to be strung was simply pulled apart gently. At the break was a nicley formed taper. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Jan 19 15:24:20 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: Message from der Mouse of "Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:30:12 EST." <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> der Mouse wrote: ... >Once, years ago, I was involved in building a designed-on-the-spot Qbus >board. Which raises a question I've been meaning to ask. Has anyone made their own unibus boards? Is this fool-hearty? I have half a mind to look over the "IDE for Soviet unibus" zip file I found and make my own uniboard board with a modern day CPLD and IDE interface. How crazy is that? I have 4-8 layer PCB's fabricated regularly and have a reasonable CAD setup to do that, so design, layout & fabrication is not a problem, nor is TTL design (heh, especially at unibus speeds :-) And I write VHDL for CPLD's all the time and program them. Seems like a 4 layer board with gold fingers would work - the few boards I've handled seemed pretty thick, however. I'm guessing the thickness needs to be correct. I have not (yet) looked at a unibus card schematic - would be it hard to create a bus master IDE interface? Is a unibus controller a relatively straight forward TTL design ? I should probably ask on the PUP list also, but I thougth I'd see if anyone here has opinions. And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone else want one? (I realize cost would be the overriding factor - believe it or not on small runs like I do the PCB is by far the most expensive part) -brad From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Jan 19 15:25:11 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: MSCP Spec questions In-Reply-To: <002f01c3decc$82138d80$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > So, is there a document anywhere that explains the 'programmatic' > > interface to MSCP-type controllers (or for any particular > > controllers)? > > And I'm looking for disk MSCP not TMSCP. Basically, I'd like > > something > > that explains the registers, command packets, etc. for > > hardware like a > > RQDX3 or KDA50 or... > > There's one on http://www.pdp11.nl but that's > down until Fred gets back to tend to it. That describes MSCP. It will not be enough to write a device driver, since it don't describe the communication protocol between the computer and the controller (that is the registers, the command/response rings, and so on). But I could make that MSCP doc. available, if someone can tell me it's legal to do so. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Mon Jan 19 15:07:47 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> from Brad Parker at Jan "19, " 2004 "04:24:20" pm Message-ID: <200401192107.OAA29469@atlantis.clogic-int.com> I would certainly fork over 150-200 for such a board. Maybe more. Inexpensive, reliable storage would make VAXen much easier to deal with. -- John Willis Coherent Logic Development willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 15:42:54 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <400A9AC9.4090407@theriver.com> Message-ID: > The point is that a lot old computer equipment is routinely scrapped for gold, > as the only salvage value a lot of computers had was in the gold they carried. Mostly, yes, but many contain enough aluminum and copper to make it wothwhile. Now that steel is up again, the frames are not so much of a liability. (and replying to someones post before this, probably TZ's) > > To a non collector an old mini or mainframe is nothing but a large piece of > > obsolete equipment only worth its scarp value (steel, aluminum,copper, and > > gold). The easiest thing to do is have it hauled away for scrap after you > > rip out any major chips that look like they might have gold in them (cpu's > > mostly). Keep in mind that there is often much more than meets the eye. Sure, many microprocessors have gold - you can see it, plain as day. Many other chips that appear quite boring also contain gold - probably 1/2 to 1/3 of the ceramic types do (break a few open - you will see). Even plain old plastic DIP TTL contains gold in a good percentage of chips. Crystals also have gold, and there is often a large amount in metal can transistors. Most scrappers I know don't realize the old machines are more valuable intact (by many times, as pointed out). If you want to save the machines, explain this to them - WITH MONEY IN HAND. Don't try to be a cheapskate - these guys are pretty damn street smart when it comes to eyeing someone over for honesty. Screw them, and you have just condemned a few PDP-8s to death, but treat them, and those PDP-8s will be yours. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 19 15:44:41 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: MSCP Spec questions In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "MSCP Spec questions" (Jan 19, 9:14) References: <200401190914.07954.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <10401192144.ZM9841@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 19, 9:14, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > So, is there a document anywhere that explains the 'programmatic' > interface to MSCP-type controllers (or for any particular controllers)? > And I'm looking for disk MSCP not TMSCP. Basically, I'd like something > that explains the registers, command packets, etc. for hardware like a > RQDX3 or KDA50 or... > > Any help is greatly appreciated. I tried with little luck on google > last night to find thist kind of stuff. What you need is the "UDA50 Prograsmmer's Doc. Kit", QP-905-GZ. It's not really UDA50-specific; I last used it to figure out what was wrong with the DU: driver in RT-11 5.01, such that it wouldn't work with an RQDX3 (DEC didn't follow their own protocol properly, was the answer, and the bug happened to get past an RQDX1 but not some other controllers). Mine is labelled "First Edition April 1982" and consists of: AA-L619A-TK Ver.1.2 MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual (approx 170pp) AA-L620A-TK Storage System Diagnostics and Utility Protocol ( 46pp) AA-L621A-TK Storage System Unibus Port Description (58pp) The first deals with MSCP itself; gives an overview, a bit about the comms side of it, algorithms, message formats, and a subset of commands for disks. The second deals with DUP, which is what's used for diagnostics and formatting. The last is about the port driver, which you can think of as the layer under the class driver (MSCP/DUP). Has the MSCP patent expired, or do you still need to license it? And can you get copies from DEC/Compaq/HP, and if not, do they come under the permission DEC gave to make copies? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 19 16:01:00 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Switch specs for Compupro/Godbout Econoram XIII Message-ID: <200401192201.OAA17922@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Anyone have the switch specs for this board? Thanks Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 16:08:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > PS. Fix your mailer! Yours are the only messages that default to reply to > > you and the list (boo!) > > Nothing to do with me I don't think - I'm on bog-standard outlook 2000 here > and haven't changed settings for years. It started happening when Jay > upgraded the mailman software on the server and the reply addresses became > things like 'cctalk-bounces' and the like. None of the other lists I'm part > of do that...... Well, yours are the only messages where I have this problem (there is one other person but I forget who that is). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 16:10:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > If so, does this indicate we are too cheap to save some of these machines? > > For the older machines, yes. Once a machine gets about 30 years old, the > scrap value starts climbing fast. Why is that? And does this hold for anything from any era that gets to be 30, or is it only from machines that are 30 years old now (and hence might have a higher precious metals content than machines that are only 10-20 years old)? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 19 15:56:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: PUTR, port? In-Reply-To: <20040119042439.89EEF1416D9A@swift.conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Jan 18, 4 11:24:39 pm Message-ID: > One friend of mine, in the mid-90s, was hired to help port a MS-DOS > application to Unix. Most of the application was already in C, but with a > non-trivial portion in Assembly (mostly the I/O subsystem). My friend just > basically translated the x86 code to C, pretty much as straight a > translation as possible. So a routine like: About 10 years ago (heck, the _modification_ is on-topic...) I needed a printer for my PERQ, which has a GPIB port. Digging in my junk box, I found a Commodore unit (off a PET), which, of course, used the Commodore character codes, not ASCII. The obvious thing to do was to burn a new EPROM with modified chracter tables and decoding routines in it. Well, it didn't take long to (a) find said tables and (b) make an adapter to use normal EPROMs on the Commodore board. The problem was that the original EPROM contains a self-test checksum routine, so just changing the tables resulted in a printer that didn't do anything by blink the frontpanel LED to indicate a failure. In order to understnad the checksum routine (and to ensure that I'd got the right value in the checksum byte on the second attempt), I re-coded the checksum routine in VAX Pascal (the only decent language that I had access to at the time). I had variables with names 'A', 'X', 'Y', 'carry', etc and procedures called 'adc', 'inx', etc. The resulting code, which read a bit like 6502 assembly language, wasn't pretty, but it got the job done! 'A real programmer can write machine code in any language' :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 19 16:00:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 19, 4 12:33:34 pm Message-ID: > > > And from where did this (magic) smoke come? You do, of course, realise > > that it's smoke that makes electronic devices work -- when the smoke > > comes out they stop working. > > Oh yes :) It was very weird - I've not come across conductive plastic > before! I had the motherboard resting the right way up on the thick plastic Presumably this is a conductive coating on the inside for RFI reduction. > > If those _are_ the video RAMs, are you getting activity on their address > > and data lines? In other words, is the video timing chain running. > > Haven't checked. I'll grab the data sheet for the 6116 and have a look. The pinout is much the same as the 2716 EPROM, but with Write Enable/ on pin 21. It's one of the pinouts that burnt into the permanent ROM of my brain :-) > > > What, if anything, do you get on the screen? > > Garbage, but the same garbage every time I switch on, so it could be bad RAM Well, in my experinece, static RAM tends to initialise to the same state on each power-up. And if you're getting recognisable characters, it implies the video timing chain, the chracter generator, etc, are all working correctly. So either there's some problem where the CPU can't write to video memory, or more likely the CPU is not trying to write to video memory. Maybe a RAM, ROM, or bus problem? -tony From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 19 16:15:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: Message-ID: <001601c3ded9$d11ec4f0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > Keep in mind that there is often much more than meets the eye. Sure, many > microprocessors have gold - you can see it, plain as day. Many other > chips that appear quite boring also contain gold - probably 1/2 to 1/3 of > the ceramic types do (break a few open - you will see). Even plain old > plastic DIP TTL contains gold in a good percentage of chips. Crystals > also have gold, and there is often a large amount in metal can transistors. > > Most scrappers I know don't realize the old machines are more valuable > intact (by many times, as pointed out). If you want to save the machines, > explain this to them - WITH MONEY IN HAND. Don't try to be a cheapskate - > these guys are pretty damn street smart when it comes to eyeing someone > over for honesty. Screw them, and you have just condemned a few PDP-8s to > death, but treat them, and those PDP-8s will be yours. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > There really isn't any gold in the chip itself, its all in the interconnecting wires from the outside pins to the actual small piece of silicon the chip is made on. the more pins to the socket the more gold there is. Especially on much older chips where thicker interconnects were used (a small cost compared to what the equipment was sold for). Most scrapper probably don't want to use space holding bulky computer equipment that only a few dozen people in the US would pay above scrap value for (and he has no way to find or contact them anyway). And once the guy they can contact gets his pristine example he wont be paying that much for the next copy coming around (to be used as a spare). A collector would probably have to buy a decent percentage of the scrap computers coming through a scrapper for them to even bother calling the collector every time something "computerlike" comes in. Plus once you do buy something for a decent amount of cash you know dam well they be actively keeping those items for ebay (is it better to save a classic from scrapping to put in your collection cheaply or have it end up on ebay for crazy $$$$ you don't want to pay). Circuit boards hold more gold in them per ton then the rich gold mines corporations operate. Most mines are not profitable until gold is over $400 an ounce, making circuit boards even more valuable. No idea how much copper is in a board, but probably worth allot in a ton of circuitboards. From paul at frixxon.co.uk Mon Jan 19 16:19:44 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: MSCP Spec questions In-Reply-To: <10401192144.ZM9841@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200401190914.07954.pat@computer-refuge.org> <10401192144.ZM9841@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <400C5800.7050608@frixxon.co.uk> Pete Turnbull wrote: > What you need is the "UDA50 Prograsmmer's Doc. Kit", QP-905-GZ. > > AA-L619A-TK Ver.1.2 MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual (approx 170pp) I think this is the manual that Antonio was referring to as temporarily offline, so I've put a copy here: http://vt100.net/tmp/l619atk.pdf (64.9 MiB) > AA-L620A-TK Storage System Diagnostics and Utility Protocol > ( 46pp) > AA-L621A-TK Storage System Unibus Port Description (58pp) I don't think either of these two are online. -- Paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 19 15:44:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Pickles & Trout S-100 IEEE-488 card In-Reply-To: <000201c3deb0$2e566490$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040119164423.00886820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> jack, I checked with my buddy about the Pickles & Trout S-100 IEEE-488 card. He does have the card and he thinks he has the disks that goes with it but he doesn't think that he has the manual. He says there MIGHT be some docs on the disks but he doesn't know exactly where the disk is and his system to read it isn't set up at the moment so he can't check to find out (He's still recovering from moving). The disk is an 8" SD CPM disk. Maybe some one on this list has a copy of the manual. Joe At 11:17 AM 1/19/04 -0600, you wrote: >Anybody have a spare eprom eraser for sale? Don't need anything fancy. >Please reply direct, since I'm on the Digest mailer. >Thanks. > >Jack > > From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Jan 19 16:44:16 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) In-Reply-To: References: <20040119005819.GJ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040119224103.GO25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 04:19:25PM -0500: > Interestingly, the thing that is worth the most in old PeeCee power > supplies is the fan screen. Why? ...aside from it being helpful for preventative debugging. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 19 16:35:47 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "brew-your-own-unibus boards?" (Jan 19, 16:24) References: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10401192235.ZM9966@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 19, 16:24, Brad Parker wrote: > > der Mouse wrote: > ... > >Once, years ago, I was involved in building a designed-on-the-spot Qbus > >board. > > Which raises a question I've been meaning to ask. [...] > Seems like a 4 layer board with gold fingers would work - the few boards > I've handled seemed pretty thick, however. I'm guessing the thickness > needs to be correct. Small variations shouldn't matter. I've not noticed any Unibus boards being abnormally thick. > I have not (yet) looked at a unibus card schematic - would be it hard to > create a bus master IDE interface? > > Is a unibus controller a relatively straight forward TTL design ? Dunno about the DMA -- probably not hard -- but the rest is straightforward. > And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone > else want one? For low enough cost, yes, me! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 19 16:31:12 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: "Witchy" "RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400" (Jan 19, 20:49) References: Message-ID: <10401192231.ZM9963@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 19, 20:49, Witchy wrote: > > PS. Fix your mailer! Yours are the only messages that default to reply to > > you and the list (boo!) > > Nothing to do with me I don't think - I'm on bog-standard outlook 2000 here > and haven't changed settings for years. It *is* your mailer. It appears to be putting an unneccessary "Reply-to:" header in, and when the list software sets its "Reply-To:", it gets concatenated to yours instead of replacing it: From: "Witchy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:49:49 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Given your Outlook puts in the correct "From:" header, adding a "Reply-To:" is redundant and arguably incorrect. For a short while, late last year, I had my MUA add a "Reply-To:" and the result was exactly the same. A few other people had the same problem, and appear to have fixed it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jan 19 16:47:54 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <003901c3dede$4bffff00$5b01a8c0@athlon> > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) > That is the major difference between IC's and the earlier > generations of computers. That is part of the reason real > classic computers have a better chance of sticking around, > as you can still make parts like core memory for a modest > amount of $ compared to anything with a IC in it. Ben. Tubes are still being manufactured, but 50 years from now, will they still be made? If not, how feasible would it be to make a replacement for an existing tube (assume a common tube where characteristics are known) as a hobbyist? The early ICs, I would guess, were simple enough that, given the specs, you could knock up a work-a-like from modern parts. I agree that, from the restorer's point of view, modern parts (FPGAs, ASICs etc.) are hard to replace. But that's just because the internal structure is not known (and that matters for FPGAs). If you did know how a given FPGA was constructed internally, I expect you could "emulate" it with one from a few generations later. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 17:00:19 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Why is that? And does this hold for anything from any era that gets to be > 30, or is it only from machines that are 30 years old now (and hence might > have a higher precious metals content than machines that are only 10-20 > years old)? Yes, the metal content. Lower integration means more ICs or transistors on smaller boards, so there are more card connectors and wire. Also, plating has become a much more controlled art. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 17:03:47 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <10401192231.ZM9963@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 19 January 2004 22:31 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > > It *is* your mailer. It appears to be putting an unneccessary > "Reply-to:" header in, and when the list software sets its "Reply-To:", > it gets concatenated to yours instead of replacing it: I know microsloth stuff has a mind of its own, but if I've not changed anything since well before pre-upgrade days and both my 'from' and 'reply-to' addresses are the same what more can I do? Nobody else I mail has this problem. I also can't be the only Outlook 2000 user here, can I? Could it not also be a problem with the list software since it never used to do it before? > Given your Outlook puts in the correct "From:" header, adding a > "Reply-To:" is redundant and arguably incorrect. I'll have a nose through the options, but I doubt 'include from AND reply-to address when replying to mails' is in there. It's microsloth, what more can I say :) > For a short while, late last year, I had my MUA add a "Reply-To:" and > the result was exactly the same. A few other people had the same > problem, and appear to have fixed it. I wonder how..... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From CBurroughs at aol.com Mon Jan 19 16:44:52 2004 From: CBurroughs at aol.com (CBurroughs@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Qube (warner Amex) Message-ID: <69C51A78.031B7F02.0A039148@aol.com> Hello Friend, I actually have an old Qube box in my closet. The weird thing is that it doesn't work on any other cable systems, except the old qube system. My unit used to work when we had the qube system. Once they shut off Qube, the unit no longer works. I remember these things from when I was a kid, that is why I have kept it. You know much about how they work? I would like to get this one to work. I have opened the unit, but see nothing wrong that would cause it to power up and then the display goes dead. Glad to see someone has the same interest in these old things From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Mon Jan 19 13:39:33 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040119151047.63455.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com>; from gkicomputers@yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 07:10:47AM -0800 References: <20040119114310.A22981@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <20040119151047.63455.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040119203933.B32229@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 07:10:47AM -0800, steve wrote: > A quick search on the web shows many venders offering > these parts for around $2 to $3/each. Don't know if Sure. I already phoned several ones in Europe just to find out that the internet is quite an unreliable reference: "Yes, we didn't update the pages for some time...no, this circuit is no longer in stock. But we could start a query for you. How many hundreds do you need?" Other companies that claim to ship worldwide apparently don't consider Germany as part of the world (I guess they extended the axis of evil a bit). > you consider that unreasonably expensive. This would be okay. But take into account that it is not a really good idea to order just a small amount of a particular circuit as the S&H costs will be high. So, I'd rather order them together with some other components that are just needed. Larger shops, e.g. Farnell, RS Electronics, Jameco, to name a few, however, do no longer have them, at least not or no longer stocked. Holger > --- Holger Veit wrote: > >Anyone has still > > sources (and not > > unreasonably expensive) for 74S189 or 74F189? > > > > Holger > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 17:13:49 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <001601c3ded9$d11ec4f0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: > There really isn't any gold in the chip itself, its all in the > interconnecting wires from the outside pins to the actual small piece of > silicon the chip is made on. Well, yes. The is "no" gold inside the die - although gold was one of the early dopants, but I think it fell out of favor late in the 1950s. > the more pins to the socket the more gold there > is. Especially on much older chips where thicker interconnects were used (a > small cost compared to what the equipment was sold for). It mostly depends on the maker and the chip. Sometimes (and the reason is still unknown to me, even though I have been given an explanation by a buddy in the fab biz) a run of chips will be mounted on gold plate, just as sometimes they need to use gold bond-in wires. For example, most AMD EPROM dies are mounted on gold, but some aren't. An equivalent Intel part may almost never be mounted on gold. "Almost never". > Most scrapper probably don't want to use space holding bulky computer > equipment that only a few dozen people in the US would pay above scrap value > for (and he has no way to find or contact them anyway). This is also a concern, for the scrappers that are short of space. However, some might not complain too much if they get a few times above scrap value for a rack. > Plus once you do buy something for a > decent amount of cash you know dam well they be actively keeping those items > for ebay (is it better to save a classic from scrapping to put in your > collection cheaply or have it end up on ebay for crazy $$$$ you don't want > to pay). Maybe, but green talks as well. Loudly, sometimes. Yes folks, the IRS *has* *started* auditing those that use Ebay. > Circuit boards hold more gold in them per ton then the rich gold mines > corporations operate. Most mines are not profitable until gold is over $400 > an ounce, making circuit boards even more valuable. No idea how much copper > is in a board, but probably worth allot in a ton of circuitboards. Good question. Probably a few hundred pounds, assuming halfway decent computer stuff. Consumer electronics boards are pretty worthless, even for the copper. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 17:17:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > I know microsloth stuff has a mind of its own, but if I've not changed > anything since well before pre-upgrade days and both my 'from' and > 'reply-to' addresses are the same what more can I do? Nobody else I mail has Perhaps you should unset your Reply-To address in the configuration. The headers should sort themselves out without the need to explicitly state where the replies should go. I'm just guessing here, but it sounds logical. > this problem. I also can't be the only Outlook 2000 user here, can I? Could > it not also be a problem with the list software since it never used to do it > before? Doubtful. Your messages are among the very, very few where I have this problem (there is only one other person with the same problem but I can't remember who). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 17:19:08 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: stuff destined for trash, speak up if wanted (more) In-Reply-To: <20040119224103.GO25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Why? ...aside from it being helpful for preventative debugging. :-) I dunno. When the parts from the power supplies (or anything else in the scrap pile) hits my hamfest bins, the fan screens are the first to go. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 17:20:19 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 19 January 2004 22:01 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 'not well' Osborne 1 mk 2 > > Presumably this is a conductive coating on the inside for RFI reduction. I'd assume so. Fortunately I didn't damage owt..... > The pinout is much the same as the 2716 EPROM, but with Write Enable/ on > pin 21. It's one of the pinouts that burnt into the permanent ROM of my > brain :-) Heh! I grabbed the technical manual this morning from Bob Feldman's post, and that told me the video RAM was a 4116 that's stuck under the double-density secondary board - the one that's supported by glued-on mountings. Bah. The board is now resting on an old book that shouldn't be conductive, so now I just need to find a capacitor that gives me +5V for my probe and I can start investigating properly-ish. > Well, in my experinece, static RAM tends to initialise to the same state > on each power-up. And if you're getting recognisable characters, it > implies the video timing chain, the chracter generator, etc, are all > working correctly. Yup. > So either there's some problem where the CPU can't write to video memory, > or more likely the CPU is not trying to write to video memory. Maybe a > RAM, ROM, or bus problem? Well, the CPU is producing activity on its address lines, but maybe it doesn't get much further than that. As luck would have it the ROMs are obscured too :-/ The system should run without either the floppy board or double density board, but it seems the power for the monitor comes from the floppy board, and the floppy board is well double-decked over the motherboard since it utilises at least 2 of the sockets on the motherboard to connect, one of which is the CPU! I'll have to go for a total dismantle when I'm not painting doors or fixing the Missus' laptop...... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 19 17:27:38 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <003901c3dede$4bffff00$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > Tubes are still being manufactured, but 50 years from now, > will they still be made? Very few types are still being made. I do not think anyone is making computer grade tubes - the DOD still has plenty left in the depots. > If not, how feasible would it be > to make a replacement for an existing tube (assume a common > tube where characteristics are known) as a hobbyist? Quite easy. It has been done already for the old radio folks. There are little wafers that slip right under a 201 (or WD11) that contains a FET and contacts for the pins of the tube that pass thru the wafer. These work quite well, so duds can be used quite well, and the look of the radio is maintained (along with the filaments' light and heat). Of course, FETrons were commercially available solid state tube replacements from the 1960s and 70s - they can still be found, and come in many models, emulating quite a few complex types. The disadvantage is that the old tube must be removed, along with that glow. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From chrisc at addpower.com Mon Jan 19 17:43:07 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? Message-ID: And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone else want one? If it came in a qbus version, I'd take one...or two. :) From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Mon Jan 19 17:39:21 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? References: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> <10401192235.ZM9966@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <400C6AA9.3F226A24@msm.umr.edu> I'd like to see you think also about making a pdp8 to ide or pdp8 to other bus too, while you are looking at it. not to design it, but to see if you can adapt the back side of your ide design to suite both, since i would guess you would feed some sort of programmable asic with the unibus / pdp8 bus stuff, and then drive the ide bus and maybe a buffer on the other side. if you partition the parts of the design right, your ide bus could run many older mini's, but I would take one or more for both unibus (for pdp 11/15) and for my 8's (L and E) Jim Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 19, 16:24, Brad Parker wrote: > > > > der Mouse wrote: > > ... > > >Once, years ago, I was involved in building a designed-on-the-spot > Qbus > > >board. > > From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 19 17:55:49 2004 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (ronbain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005401c3dee7$c3c84700$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> How do you get off this list??? -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of William Donzelli Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:23 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Emulators of Classic Computers > Repair of a single core plan? Absolutely! > The size of the beads will determine what size > needle threaded with wire to use. > Early planes used beads so large that you can re-thread t > hem with sewing needles! Core planes are (were) often threaded without needles - there just wasn't enough room in each core for a needle once the first two (or three) wires were strung. The wire itself is the needle. IBM invented a very simple solution - the wire to be strung was simply pulled apart gently. At the break was a nicley formed taper. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aek at spies.com Mon Jan 19 18:18:53 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question Message-ID: <200401200018.i0K0IrcZ023345@spies.com> The engr drawings for the MINC are up now at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP00652_MNC11engrDrw_1978.pdf From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 18:25:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > Maybe, but green talks as well. Loudly, sometimes. Yes folks, the IRS *has* > *started* auditing those that use Ebay. Another reason to use the Vintage Computer Marketplace instead. We're still under the IRS radar :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Jan 19 18:26:42 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question In-Reply-To: <200401200018.i0K0IrcZ023345@spies.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > The engr drawings for the MINC are up now at > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP00652_MNC11engrDrw_1978.pdf They are? Sure looks like a 404 to me. -JP From aek at spies.com Mon Jan 19 18:38:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200401200038.i0K0c0qB025762@spies.com> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP00652_MNC11_1978.pdf From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jan 19 18:45:44 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074558888.1325.124.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 23:17, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > this problem. I also can't be the only Outlook 2000 user here, can I? Could > > it not also be a problem with the list software since it never used to do it > > before? > > Doubtful. Your messages are among the very, very few where I have this > problem (there is only one other person with the same problem but I can't > remember who). Well hang on.. surely it's legal protocol-wise for witchy to put the reply-to field in the header for email that he sends, even though the from: field is also present and valid? Isn't it a little quirky for the list software to append to any existing reply-to field rather than overwriting it? (which for a mailing list might seem more sensible). If the list software is set to always overwrite any reply-to field then this would solve this particular problem, and for any future instances - it's bound to crop up again at some point. witchy: you didn't ever run any kind of ISP's setup software on the machine from which you read mail do you? I've seen them bugger about with email settings something chronic before if you're using one of the MS clients to read mail. (Curiously in Evolution if I reply to witchy's posts it goes to both him and the list by default. If I just say "reply to list" then it just goes to the list as expected. A feature that works... even though it isn't too useful :) cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 19 18:54:47 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <1074558888.1325.124.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 20 January 2004 00:35 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > > Well hang on.. surely it's legal protocol-wise for witchy to put the > reply-to field in the header for email that he sends, even though the > from: field is also present and valid? Bearing in mind a lot of mailing software ignores the 'from' field and instead uses the 'reply-to' field instead. Well, OK, for USENET anyway :) > Isn't it a little quirky for the list software to append to any existing > reply-to field rather than overwriting it? (which for a mailing list > might seem more sensible). Like I say, this problem only started happening with the last list-upgrade. I've change nothing before or since. Jay, are you out there? > witchy: you didn't ever run any kind of ISP's setup software on the > machine from which you read mail do you? I've seen them bugger about > with email settings something chronic before if you're using one of the > MS clients to read mail. *shudder* I have a big enough problem having to run Gatesware on this machine as it is, never mind letting some shoddily-coded outsider manipulate my settings! :) If I could be arsed to work out how to install winduhs 2000 manually I would, just so I could understand what horrors it goes through, though that would probably shoo me away. I know Dreamweaver has its brickbats but it's only that and Photoshop that keeps me running this unreliable shite. Oh, and I've got several years' worth of past museum mails etc that are in Outlook format so I need Outlook, unless there's an open source app that's happy with .PST files....... > (Curiously in Evolution if I reply to witchy's posts it goes to both him > and the list by default. If I just say "reply to list" then it just goes > to the list as expected. A feature that works... even though it isn't > too useful :) I just want to know why my posts end up as coming from me AND the list. I'm not doing it deliberately and I know it happens to others. I'm just so used to hitting 'reply to all' and deleting the addresses I don't need so stuff goes straight to the list. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 19 19:09:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: interesting finds: Datapoint 2400 for HP 1000? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040119200921.00852100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I was digging through a bunch of cables today and found a DataPoint 2400 MODEM with the cables still attached. The cables look like they're for an HP 1000. The hoods on the far end said HP (something)(something)618. I've looked and tried to figure out what card that might be but didn't find anything. Asnybody know what card that is? Anybody know anything about the DataPoint 2400 MODEM? I didn't see a manufacturer's name but it has the Bell symbol on it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 19 19:13:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have a SGI Indigo and Indigo II along with a pile of Sun stuff. I'm wondering if I can replace all the funky monitors with one modern multisync SVGA monitor. Anybody know of any reason that this won't work, or have any recommendations about what kind of video adapter I need or where to get one? (13W3 to SVGA). Joe From lists at microvax.org Mon Jan 19 19:11:33 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200401200111.33636.lists@microvax.org> On Monday 19 Jan 2004 9:24 pm, Brad Parker wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > ... > > >Once, years ago, I was involved in building a designed-on-the-spot Qbus > >board. > > Which raises a question I've been meaning to ask. > > Has anyone made their own unibus boards? Is this fool-hearty? > > I have half a mind to look over the "IDE for Soviet unibus" zip file I > found and make my own uniboard board with a modern day CPLD and IDE > interface. > > How crazy is that? > > I have 4-8 layer PCB's fabricated regularly and have a reasonable CAD > setup to do that, so design, layout & fabrication is not a problem, nor > is TTL design (heh, especially at unibus speeds :-) And I write VHDL for > CPLD's all the time and program them. > > Seems like a 4 layer board with gold fingers would work - the few boards > I've handled seemed pretty thick, however. I'm guessing the thickness > needs to be correct. > > I have not (yet) looked at a unibus card schematic - would be it hard to > create a bus master IDE interface? > > Is a unibus controller a relatively straight forward TTL design ? > > I should probably ask on the PUP list also, but I thougth I'd see if > anyone here has opinions. > > And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone > else want one? > > (I realize cost would be the overriding factor - believe it or not on > small runs like I do the PCB is by far the most expensive part) > > -brad Second to Chris Cureau's post, if you did a qbus version you'd have a small business on your hands. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Jan 19 19:44:48 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401191744.48309.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Joe, A good multisync that supports sync-on-green will be your best bet. I've got lots of SGI and SUN systems - and that kind of monitor will work on just about everything. You're in for a lot more hassle if the monitor doesn't do sync-on-green. Some Indigo and Indigo II's video options do support more standard SVGA signals - but it's not straightforward. (The SGI hardware developers manual has MANY pages devoted to the subject). Sun and SGI have different pinouts for 13W3 to SVGA, so be sure to purchase or make the correct adapters for each. You may want to look in the archives of this list - there was a detailed discussion of this subject (by myself and others) a month or two back. Lyle On Monday 19 January 2004 17:13, Joe R. wrote: > I have a SGI Indigo and Indigo II along with a pile of Sun stuff. I'm > wondering if I can replace all the funky monitors with one modern multisync > SVGA monitor. Anybody know of any reason that this won't work, or have any > recommendations about what kind of video adapter I need or where to get > one? (13W3 to SVGA). > > Joe -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From charlesmorris at direcway.com Mon Jan 19 19:47:56 2004 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Old no-name laptop, anyone interested? Message-ID: I have a working "no-name" laptop (it doesn't seem to have a brand name, just "Notebook Computer" on the label) made around 1991. It's a 486-66 with a whopping 8Mb RAM, 540 Mb hard drive, color LCD screen, and a PCMCIA 33.6k modem card. It's running Win95 (albeit slowly). It works just fine for email and word processing but bogs down trying to run Web browsers (not sure if more RAM can be added or not). The battery pack won't hold a charge for more than a day or so, and the CMOS battery is dead, but aside from that everything works fine. I just bought a more modern Dell used laptop so I no longer need this "classic" ;) Is anyone interested in purchasing it cheap? Make me an offer... thanks Charles From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 19:58:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <1074558888.1325.124.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 20 Jan 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Well hang on.. surely it's legal protocol-wise for witchy to put the > reply-to field in the header for email that he sends, even though the > from: field is also present and valid? Legal, sure, but sensible? I hate getting e-mails where the Reply-To is the same as the From. What's the point of that? Also, it seems to wreak havoc on a mailing list. > Isn't it a little quirky for the list software to append to any existing > reply-to field rather than overwriting it? (which for a mailing list > might seem more sensible). Good point... > (Curiously in Evolution if I reply to witchy's posts it goes to both him > and the list by default. If I just say "reply to list" then it just goes > to the list as expected. A feature that works... even though it isn't > too useful :) In PINE, when hit the R)eply command, I get: Include original message in Reply? ...to which I answer 'Y'. Then I get: Use "Reply-To:" address instead of "From:" address? ...to which I again answer 'Y'. However, with Witchy's messages, since it finds two Reply-To addresses, it puts both in the To: address. Anyway, Witchy's config is doing something that is counter to 99% of the rest of the list. While I appreciate and celebrate non-conformists, in this case it's like the guy who just smells really bad because he refuses to use deodorant. As a favor to Witchy (so he doesn't get my message in both his ClassicCmp box and his regular Inbox) I always edit out his address (= pain in the ass). I guess I could just let that be, but I want to be courteous to Witchy :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 20:00:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > I just want to know why my posts end up as coming from me AND the list. I'm That's normal behaviour. All messages from the list are like that. The Reply-To is of course set to the list address. > not doing it deliberately and I know it happens to others. I'm just so used > to hitting 'reply to all' and deleting the addresses I don't need so stuff > goes straight to the list. Well, I'm not used to it :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 20:05:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: interesting finds: Datapoint 2400 for HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040119200921.00852100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I was digging through a bunch of cables today and found a DataPoint 2400 > MODEM with the cables still attached. The cables look like they're for an > HP 1000. The hoods on the far end said HP (something)(something)618. I've > looked and tried to figure out what card that might be but didn't find > anything. Asnybody know what card that is? Anybody know anything about the > DataPoint 2400 MODEM? I didn't see a manufacturer's name but it has the > Bell symbol on it. Yo Joe. It's probably just re-badged by DataPoint, but manufactured by Bell. DataPoint made nifty networked computers and invented ARCNET (see my next message for more on that). It may well be that Datapoint sold the modem for interconnecting to HP minis. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 20:05:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Datapoint and ARCNET Message-ID: I was searching around the net for information on Datapoint the other day and came across information on ARCNET. I never realized ARCNET was still in wide use today. There is even a 100Mbit version of ARCNET over RG58(!) Check out the links below for more interesting reading and history of ARCNET: http://www.tcpmag.com/archives/article.asp?EditorialsID=58 http://www.arcnet.com/abtarc.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 21:10:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: IBM 519 Punch and 083 Sorter Message-ID: Only $5,500 and $4,500 respectively! What a bargain! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3072636290&category=294 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3072636344&category=294 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Jan 19 21:26:32 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> Upon the date 04:24 PM 1/19/04 -0500, Brad Parker said something like: >I have half a mind to look over the "IDE for Soviet unibus" zip file I >found and make my own uniboard board with a modern day CPLD and IDE >interface. > >How crazy is that? Well, not crazy in my book. I'm much more a hardware man, not so much software, in interests - similar to Tony D. and a few others here. This is a solution. >I have 4-8 layer PCB's fabricated regularly and have a reasonable CAD >setup to do that, so design, layout & fabrication is not a problem, nor >is TTL design (heh, especially at unibus speeds :-) And I write VHDL for >CPLD's all the time and program them. > >Seems like a 4 layer board with gold fingers would work - the few boards >I've handled seemed pretty thick, however. I'm guessing the thickness >needs to be correct. I have not noticed any oddball thickness on any of the Unibus boards I have. I can mike a bunch to get a mean thickness, but I suspect the dimension would be right in the range typically found on any other computer PCB (what was that? 60 thousandths or ?? Been too long to recall now . . .) The specs from the original vendors of the card edge connectors in DEC and compatible systems will of course drive the board thickness tolerance. >I have not (yet) looked at a unibus card schematic - would be it hard to >create a bus master IDE interface? The bus driver/receiver rules need to be adhered to, but I don't feel it's beyond your capability it seems. >Is a unibus controller a relatively straight forward TTL design ? > >I should probably ask on the PUP list also, but I thougth I'd see if >anyone here has opinions. > >And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone >else want one? Yes! Also Qbus would be of very strong interest too. I have at least two Unibus and four or perhaps five Qbus machines which would be targets of an IDE interface. >(I realize cost would be the overriding factor - believe it or not on >small runs like I do the PCB is by far the most expensive part) Well, cost should be somewhat of a factor for most of us. The vast majority who would use the subject Unibus/Qbus interfaces are hobbyists and, like me, have more than one system but decidedly limited funds. IMHO, very few, if any, commercial users would be potential customers as they may prefer to spend the buck to find exact replacement drives/controllers and not risk complications from some untried mass storage hardware system. A stable design insensitive to all potential OS's which could be used (and vice versa) will be quite welcome in this house. Bring it on. Regards, Chris Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jan 19 22:25:34 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <200401200434.XAA12838@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would >> anyone else want one? > Yes! > Also Qbus would be of very strong interest too. Yeah, me too for Qbus. I have no unibus machines, but I'd buy one (or even two, depending on price) for qbus. But first, they'd have to work. I recall working on the qbus ide that the chd.dyndns.org person (whose name I have forgotten at the moment) was building, and I never did get the drive to work. Where the fault responsible for this lay I never did find out, but the difficulty makes me a bit cautious around such things. I'm pretty seriously tempted to try my own qbus board construction. The electrical interface is pretty simple; I'm tmepted to build a board with the basic bus transceivers on it and a cable to some kind of breadboard elsewhere. I haven't gone through the spec in detail yet, but I suspect there are few to no places where the timing requirements are so tight as to make this paradigm unworkable. Qbus is not all that fast a bus, and as I recall there are very few places where peripherals can't take their own sweet time about doing their thing. To be bootable, it would have to speak MSCP, and that's nontrivial. But even a dumb-as-dirt version would be worth buying to me; I'm willing to get my first-level bootstrap over the net - or even ROM it on the board. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 19 22:57:55 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: S-100 Handbook on ePay.... References: Message-ID: <001601c3df11$f7664a60$6400a8c0@starship1> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3454468518&category=3666 From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 19 22:45:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 10:26:32PM -0500, Christian Fandt wrote: > >And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone > >else want one? > > Yes! And me! > Also Qbus would be of very strong interest too. I have at least two Unibus > and four or perhaps five Qbus machines which would be targets of an IDE > interface. > > >(I realize cost would be the overriding factor - believe it or not on > >small runs like I do the PCB is by far the most expensive part) I used to build Qbus and Unibus (and VAXBI!) boards at Software Results Corp. ISTR we spent >$100 per Qbus blank board because we never made orders larger than q. 100. They are large boards (by today's standards) and with that much gold, aren't cheap to make. Here's a suggestion: lay out the board with the bus drivers (and grants) for *both* Qbus _and_ Unibus, and only populate the variety you wish to make. At least that way, you'd have a chance to boost the quantity of boards made, and bring down the price a little. For me, at least, the hard part of designing a modern Qbus and/or Unibus interface would be what to select for bus drivers. I happen to have a small handful of real DEC Qbus chips (from my Q-BOARD days), and a large quantity of 8641 chips. It's choosing the other stuff that gets hard. It's not so bad in a small backplane, but if you use your Unibus boxes like we used to (11/750 w/internal DD11DK + BA-11 + 3 x DD11DK...), adhering to the spec becomes important. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 04:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -13 F (-25.0 C) Windchill -48.7 F (-44.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.7 kts Grid 342 Barometer 687.8 mb (10333. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 19 23:19:19 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 10:26:32PM -0500, Christian Fandt wrote: > > > And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would > > > anyone else want one? > > > > Yes! > > And me! You know what would be more useful, IMHO, a Qbus/Unibus USB adapter. This would allow one to add a greater variety of I/O options beyond standard disk storage, like memory card readers, digital cameras, mice, keyboards, audio, network adapters, printers, scanners, etc. You could also hang multiple devices from a single board with the aid of a USB hub. You'd still have to write drivers for all this stuff, but in the case of NetBSD, this shouldn't be a problem once a driver for the custom USB board is built. -brian. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 23:32:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: S-100 Handbook on ePay.... In-Reply-To: <001601c3df11$f7664a60$6400a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3454468518&category=3666 Hey, cool. Dave Bursky (the author) came to VCF 5.0 and brought along two mint copies for me :) Very nice guy! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 19 23:34:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I used to build Qbus and Unibus (and VAXBI!) boards at Software Results > Corp. ISTR we spent >$100 per Qbus blank board because we never made orders > larger than q. 100. They are large boards (by today's standards) and with > that much gold, aren't cheap to make. Since most of the actual circuitry can be fit onto a small PCB, might I suggest that the PCB be fit into a frame, the frame being the same dimensions as a normal QBus card so that it will still fit nicely into a Qbus chassis. The only problem will be the edge connector connections from the PCB. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jan 19 23:30:49 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <200401200526.AAA22594@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401200526.AAA22594@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401200608.BAA22793@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > For me, at least, the hard part of designing a modern Qbus and/or > Unibus interface would be what to select for bus drivers. Well, for Qbus...there's an appendix in the KA630 document that's titled "Q22-Bus Specification". Based on that: >From the looks of it, for a driver you can use almost any open-collector TTL output - at least, a quick look at the specs doesn't reveal anything that stands out as incompatible. The receivers are a bit more interesting. The spec says that their threshold must be between 1.3 and 1.7 volts and that their high-level input current must be no greater than 80?A; it fails to give any limits on how much current they source into a low-level input, though there surely must be such a limit. Are there any bus receiver chips that have a reference-voltage pin, which could be connected to (say) 1.5V? Basically, a bunch of specialized voltage comparators? Personally, I'd be tempted to just use TTL and see if it works (LSTTL, probably, since that sources less current into low-level inputs). But of course "it works for me" isn't good enough if you're designing for other people's use. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Mon Jan 19 21:28:14 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: ATTN: ronbain... In-Reply-To: <005401c3dee7$c3c84700$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> References: <005401c3dee7$c3c84700$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: <1074569294.2145.11.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 18:55, ronbain wrote: > How do you get off this list??? > Well... You could look at the email address that sent you the email, and find out the domain name (classiccmp.org). Then you could type into the address bar of your chosen web browser that domain name with a "www." in front of it (www.classiccmp.org). Then follow the link that says "Mailing Lists" at the top of the web page. Then follow the link that says "cctalk", since from the address your post comes from it seems you are subscribed to the "cctalk" list. Then fill in your email address in the box labeled "Subscription Options / Unsubscribe" and click the "Unsubscribe or edit options" button, and follow the instructions you get from there. If you can't follow these instructions, I can't help you any further, but continued repeated postings of "how do you get off this list" probably isn't going to endear you to anyone. Next time you subscribe to a mailing list, keep the emails from the list telling you how to unsubscribe. Then you won't have to keep asking... From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jan 20 01:15:58 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <400C6AA9.3F226A24@msm.umr.edu> References: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> <10401192235.ZM9966@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <400C6AA9.3F226A24@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <20040120071558.GB3484@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 03:39:21PM -0800, jim wrote: > I'd like to see you think also about making a pdp8 to ide or pdp8 to > other bus too, while you are looking at it. not to design it, but to > see if you can adapt the back side of your ide design to suite both, > since i would guess you would feed some sort of programmable > asic with the unibus / pdp8 bus stuff, and then drive the ide bus and > maybe a buffer on the other side. The bus requirements for Qbus and Unibus are not that far apart. OMNIBUS or posi/negi-bus stuff for PDP-8 are another matter entirely. Quite different. > if you partition the parts of the > design right, your ide bus could run many older mini's, but I would > take one or more for both unibus (for pdp 11/15) and for my 8's (L and E) A PDP-8 IDE interface would be a good idea, but it would probably be better to be an entirely distinct project from a Qbus and/or Unibus interface. The SBC-6120 _has_ an IDE interface, but its design is entirely unsuitable for a TTL or transistorized -8. It has an 82C55 chip as a peripheral to the 6120 CPU chip, but it depends on a feature of the 61xx-series CPUs to switch to "console-mode ROM" and take those simple IOTs and emulate them with a wad of ROM code. I would be quite surprised if you could fit enough code in two pages to build a device driver that hammered on the 82C55 directly. There was a SCSI interface for the OMNIBUS. I was supposed to get one from Charlie Lasner *years* ago to help him merge two divergent firmware streams, but it never happened. It had a 6809 onboard that parsed a control block that the OS/8 driver built. It talked to the SCSI drive, got the requested disk blocks and DMAed the results into the -8's memory. It was a non- trivial microcomputer sitting on the OMNIBUS. If I were to build one of _those_ from scratch, I'd probably switch to the 68000, but that's because I have analyzers and debugging tools for it (Northwest Instruments and Fluke), not because it _needs_ that much horsepower to talk to a disk. A simple 6502 SBC could probably do the work, but it'd be easier, I think, to drive a 12-bit data-break interface with a 16-bit-bus uP than an 8-bit-bus uP. The "problem" boils down to a simple fact: IDE drives want to see a 16-bit datapath, and on a Qbus or Unibus, you _have_ that. It can be as simple as mapping IDE registers to Qbus/Unibus I/O space. For a 12-bit machine, it's a lot of work to map 12 bits to 16 bits. The easy way with an old PDP-8 is to use an I/O co-processor. With the 6100/6120, you can emulate that functionality with a 16-bit VLSI I/O chip and a lot of ROM code. It wouldn't be particularly quick, but I always thought that if I were to whip up a 68000-based OMNIBUS card, I'd also allow it to respond to a variety of IOTs to emulate whatever peripheral I wanted, especially extra SLUs or an LP8E. The circuit wouldn't be any harder - it would all be firmware. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 07:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -15.1 F (-26.2 C) Windchill -44.4 F (-42.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.1 kts Grid 003 Barometer 688.4 mb (10309. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 20 01:33:35 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Estimated Value of an ASR-33.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074583427.6315.15.camel@fiche> Go to eBay, search for (asr,asr33,teletype) etc, click "search completed items", see what they sell for... as good as any a valuation. On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 17:49, David V. Corbin wrote: > Looking for peoples estimate of the value of an ASR-33 with working paper > tape reader/punch (and of course keyboard/print), modem is quite optional. > > I am starting to search for one to add to my collection and am not sure what > price range is reasonable these days.... > > Also if anyone has one that they want to sell (especially if located in > North East US), please contact me directly. > > David Corbin > dvcorbin@optonline.net > From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 20 01:38:56 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 18:32, ben franchuk wrote: But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) > That is the major difference between IC's and the earlier > generations of computers. That is part of the reason > real classic computers have a better chance of sticking > around, as you can still make parts like core memory > for a modest amount of $ compared to anything with a IC > in it. Actually there's a interesting lesson in here, in that in the tube days the components -- though manifold and balky -- were common, cheap, easily substituted, and maint problems are largely the sheer number of tiny, stupid parts. Any given part is easily re-fabricated, but sheesh there's so damn many of them. I have a new design (yes you read right) for a tube computer, probably 75 envelopes, on my website. 20 bits, serial arith, drum memory but I later realized that switched-capacitor (aka DRAM) was actually historically acceptable since one was made (NBS "test" computer; the diodes were too expensive in 1952 but it was basically just a DRAM). Somehow, I can't find the money to make it. But I'm serious enough, there's an assembler and simulator there (wps.com/projects). From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 20 01:47:59 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <003901c3dede$4bffff00$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003901c3dede$4bffff00$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <1074584296.6315.24.camel@fiche> Making a replacement for a tube is easy, as long as you don't require it to look like a tube. On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 14:47, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) > > That is the major difference between IC's and the earlier > > generations of computers. That is part of the reason real > > classic computers have a better chance of sticking around, > > as you can still make parts like core memory for a modest > > amount of $ compared to anything with a IC in it. Ben. > > Tubes are still being manufactured, but 50 years from now, > will they still be made? If not, how feasible would it be > to make a replacement for an existing tube (assume a common > tube where characteristics are known) as a hobbyist? > > The early ICs, I would guess, were simple enough that, > given the specs, you could knock up a work-a-like from > modern parts. > > I agree that, from the restorer's point of view, modern > parts (FPGAs, ASICs etc.) are hard to replace. But that's > just because the internal structure is not known (and that > matters for FPGAs). If you did know how a given FPGA was > constructed internally, I expect you could "emulate" it > with one from a few generations later. > > Antonio > > From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Jan 20 01:43:21 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: IBM 519 Punch and 083 Sorter References: Message-ID: <004401c3df29$15fc8630$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:10 AM Subject: IBM 519 Punch and 083 Sorter > > Only $5,500 and $4,500 respectively! What a bargain! > I used to work on an identical system. I still have some documentation for the 519. Anyone remember how to sort on the numerical part of an alphanumeric character ? I do ! I really feel like an old fart now :-( Nico From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 01:41:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: DEC VT520 terminals: $25 on VCM Message-ID: I've listed (3) DEC VT520 terminals on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. Search for items #372-374. I'm asking $25 each. These are fantastic multi-purpose terminals. Check out the listing descriptions for more information. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jan 20 01:01:59 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <10401192235.ZM9966@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> <10401192235.ZM9966@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040120070159.GA3484@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 10:35:47PM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Is a unibus controller a relatively straight forward TTL design ? > > Dunno about the DMA -- probably not hard -- but the rest is > straightforward. Software Results made two DMA Unibus boards - one was an excessively elaborate design, the other simpler, but both used DEC DC013s and a wad of 8461 chips. I don't mind sharing the designs, but they are c. 1982 and depend on a lot of PALs to do their job. They are both non-trivial. The problem, of course, is that I won't have access to the prints for a year. A from-scratch design might make more sense than basing anything off a COMBOARD. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 06:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -15.1 F (-26.2 C) Windchill -49.2 F (-45.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.8 kts Grid 004 Barometer 688.3 mb (10313. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jan 20 01:50:38 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <20040120070159.GA3484@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200401192124.i0JLOKG19682@mwave.heeltoe.com> <10401192235.ZM9966@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040120070159.GA3484@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040120075038.GA4405@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 07:01:59AM +0000, Ethan Dicks wrote: > ...both used DEC DC013s and a wad of 8461 chips. That should be "8641" chips. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 07:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -13.5 F (-25.3 C) Windchill -43.8 F (-42.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 343 Barometer 688.5 mb (10305. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 01:51:58 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> Message-ID: On 19 Jan 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > I have a new design (yes you read right) for a tube computer, probably > 75 envelopes, on my website. 20 bits, serial arith, drum memory but I Too cool. This is a dream of mine as well but (sigh) time is so short. Man, Tom, you are one of the coolest people alive :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 20 01:45:48 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: "Witchy" "RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400" (Jan 19, 23:03) References: Message-ID: <10401200745.ZM10365@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 19, 23:03, Witchy wrote: > > It *is* your mailer. It appears to be putting an unneccessary > > "Reply-to:" header in, and when the list software sets its "Reply-To:", > > it gets concatenated to yours instead of replacing it: > > I know microsloth stuff has a mind of its own, but if I've not changed > anything since well before pre-upgrade days and both my 'from' and > 'reply-to' addresses are the same what more can I do? But you don't need a "Reply-to:" if it's the same as the "From:" and it shouldn't really be there unless it's diifferent. > I'll have a nose through the options, but I doubt 'include from AND reply-to > address when replying to mails' is in there. It's microsloth, what more can > I say :) :-) I'm fairly sure there's a way to tell it not to include the "Reply-to:". I'll ask the M$ people at work. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 20 02:07:43 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400" (Jan 20, 0:34) References: <1074558888.1325.124.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10401200807.ZM10399@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 20, 0:34, Jules Richardson wrote: > Well hang on.. surely it's legal protocol-wise for witchy to put the > reply-to field in the header for email that he sends, even though the > from: field is also present and valid? The "Reply-To:" field is supposed to override the "From:" field, and although the standard doesn't expressly forbid setting both the same, it makes it clear that there is no point unless they're different. > Isn't it a little quirky for the list software to append to any existing > reply-to field rather than overwriting it? (which for a mailing list > might seem more sensible). Not really, the standard implies that appending is correct behaviour, in case replies direct to the originator should not go to the originator's address as given in the "From:" field (eg suppose Witchy sent a message from somewhere other than his normal address, or a machine that didn't have a valid address; the "From:" would show the not-normal point of origin, the "Reply-to: would show his normal address). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 20 02:17:38 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: "Witchy" "RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400" (Jan 20, 0:54) References: Message-ID: <10401200817.ZM10414@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 20, 0:54, Witchy wrote: > Bearing in mind a lot of mailing software ignores the 'from' field and > instead uses the 'reply-to' field instead. Well, OK, for USENET anyway :) Well, anything that replies is *supposed* to ignore the "From:" field *if* (and only if) there is a "Reply-To:". The "From:" is mandatory, the "Reply-To:" is optional. There are some other headers that may be involved but only for errors and control messages. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jan 20 02:30:38 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? In-Reply-To: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> References: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <29b8a3734c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> Curt Vendel wrote: > Did anyone catch that show the other night, I Tivo'd it, and it was kinda > cool hearing from the founders, nothing really new was mentioned or > covered, they did really razz Bill Gates about his whiny letter to the > Homebrew Club about them pirating MS Basic and such. Can someone MPEG or DivX the show? If it's less than 200MB, I can provide the hosting :) Incidentally, I did contact Sky (the UK satellite TV co., aka BskyB) not long ago regarding TechTV. Their response consisted of two words - "No" and "chance". *sigh*. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Tue Jan 20 03:22:45 2004 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> Somewhere in my list of (too many) projects to work on some day is to implement one of the first (tube) computers in SSI. One I had done some design on was the SSEM/Manchester "Baby" ("the first machine to run a stored program"/1948). I did enough of the logic design to implement it in a home-brew logic simulator (executable in browser via shockwave at http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/tih/SSEM), but haven't got around to doing a physical implementation. Figured CMOS SSI would be the way to go. For the "Baby", a scope/CRT with Z-axis control could be used to emulate the original 32-bit-by-32-word storage-tube-memory monitor. I have an HP digital signal analyser from 1969 (basically an early digital oscilloscope) which has all the CRT support and power supplies and figured the new/old processor could be built into the HP DSA with a new front panel, making an interesting amalgam of hardware and architecture spanning several decades of computing. The same idea could apply to some o! ther 'scope equipment of course. Another interesting machine to implement in SSI might be the IAS machine, or perhaps something like the IBM 709. One could get carried away making scale-model front-panels with lots of LEDs and miniature toggle switches. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Jan 20 03:40:08 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD11@nbulif015> > I also can't be the only Outlook 2000 user here, can I? You're not, I'm stuck with it here at work. Anyone want to check my message to see if the redundant "Reply-To:" is there > I wonder how..... I don't, because fixing software here has become a summary dismissal offence. 8^(= Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 03:47:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD11@nbulif015> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Davison, Lee wrote: > > I also can't be the only Outlook 2000 user here, can I? > > You're not, I'm stuck with it here at work. > > Anyone want to check my message to see if the redundant > "Reply-To:" is there Nope. Yours works perfectly. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 04:50:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida Message-ID: I just found this whilst doing a mostly unrelated search: http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE:dcpolPlistCKIE:DEC++++CATEGORY If I'm reading this right, these guys have: (1) PDP 11/23 @ US$695 (1) VAX 11/730 @ US$995 (3) VAX 11/750 @ US$295 each (2) PDP 11/84 @ US$1,307.12 each ...and a plethora of other DEC gear. There's also some HP1000 series peripherals and lots of other stuff. Might be worth looking into. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From asholz at topinform.de Tue Jan 20 03:31:09 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <400CF55D.4010505@topinform.com> Hello all, please have a look at that: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ But that is not really preferable solution. We have to replace the MFM-discs with a black-box! We had a thread how to replace MFM-discs at the end of last year. We should continue this thread! Andreas From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Jan 20 04:27:29 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD12@nbulif015> > The receivers are a bit more interesting. The spec says that their > threshold must be between 1.3 and 1.7 volts and that their high-level > input current must be no greater than 80?A; > Are there any bus receiver chips that have a reference-voltage pin, > which could be connected to (say) 1.5V? You can use open drain CMOS buffers/inverters in this way by setting the supply volts to give the desired ViH point (check the data sheet but ViH * 2 is about right). The outputs are at least TTL volts tolerant used like this. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Jan 20 05:12:29 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:30:49 EST." <200401200608.BAA22793@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401201112.i0KBCTv25448@mwave.heeltoe.com> der Mouse wrote: > >>From the looks of it, for a driver you can use almost any >open-collector TTL output - at least, a quick look at the specs doesn't >reveal anything that stands out as incompatible. > >The receivers are a bit more interesting. The spec says that their >threshold must be between 1.3 and 1.7 volts and that their high-level >input current must be no greater than 80µA; it fails to give any limits >on how much current they source into a low-level input, though there >surely must be such a limit. Looking at the DS3662 specs (now sadly obsolete), I'm wondering if the DS3896 would work. I'm not comfortable driving the unibus with a stock TTL output (hah, *which* ttl? :-) since I'd like the slew to be more controlled (ok, slower). The "trapazoidal" drivers make for a nicer edge. I have not looked at QBUS specs (yet). I seems the drivers may be the same. Is it terminated the same as a unibus? -brad From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 20 06:51:07 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <200401191744.48309.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401191744.48309.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <1074602411.2772.8.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 01:44, Lyle Bickley wrote: > A good multisync that supports sync-on-green will be your best bet. I've got > lots of SGI and SUN systems - and that kind of monitor will work on just > about everything. You're in for a lot more hassle if the monitor doesn't do > sync-on-green. I use an Iiyama Vision Master monitor on the desktop PC - it's probably about 5 years old now. Has PC-style VGA input plus BNC connectors, and can be swapped between the two from the controls on the front. From the BNC inputs it'll do seperate H/V sync, combined H/V, and sync on green. I've never used the 19" screens, but this 17" one is of really nice quality for the age. I've seen them go for about 40 pounds here (which is probably about $70?). Doubtless you can get them for a fraction of that price in the US though! cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 20 07:05:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074603277.2773.23.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 00:54, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > > Sent: 20 January 2004 00:35 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > Like I say, this problem only started happening with the last list-upgrade. > I've change nothing before or since. Jay, are you out there? list upgrades can do funny things... :) > > witchy: you didn't ever run any kind of ISP's setup software on the > > machine from which you read mail do you? > > *shudder* just checking :) > I have a big enough problem having to run Gatesware on this machine as it > is, never mind letting some shoddily-coded outsider manipulate my settings! > :) If I could be arsed to work out how to install winduhs 2000 manually I > would, just so I could understand what horrors it goes through, though that > would probably shoo me away. I know Dreamweaver has its brickbats but it's > only that and Photoshop that keeps me running this unreliable shite. I just dual-boot my main desktop, linux and win2k. I only use 2k for paint shop pro work (photoshop drives me nuts - way too bloated for its own good!) and for audio sample editing (I haven't found a decent sample editor for linux) > Oh, and > I've got several years' worth of past museum mails etc that are in Outlook > format so I need Outlook, unless there's an open source app that's happy > with .PST files....... let me know if you find anything, and I'll do likewise - I'm in the same situation. I'm just about to upgrade Evolution to see what import formats it has, plus I need to look at what (if any) export options outlook has (none, knowing MS). If I can get mails from outlook in plain text format, I can script something that'll produce a unix-style mbox format and I know Evolution will import that. Luckily I don't need to refer to the old emails that often, but it's a pain having to reboot when I do - it'd also be nice to get all the old mail onto the server so that everything's in one place :) > I just want to know why my posts end up as coming from me AND the list. I'm > not doing it deliberately and I know it happens to others. Looks like it is just that Reply-to field; your mail software adds it whenever you send email and nobody elses does. The list software is then a little broken (IMHO) in that when it receives mail it doesn't replace an exisiting Reply-to but simply appends to it before distributing to list members. What mail server do you use? I suppose it's not impossible that your ISP is adding the field, although that would seem like a very bad thing to be doing. Setting up a different piece of mail software and seeing what that does, or even telnetting to your mail server and sending manually to see what happens might be a good test. I checked and the Reply-to field is appearing in private emails that you've sent to me, so sending to anyone you know and getting them to look at the headers would be a fair test I reckon. cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 20 07:20:38 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <1074603277.2773.23.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 20 January 2004 12:55 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 > > > would probably shoo me away. I know Dreamweaver has its > brickbats but it's > > only that and Photoshop that keeps me running this unreliable shite. > > I just dual-boot my main desktop, linux and win2k. I only use 2k for > paint shop pro work (photoshop drives me nuts - way too bloated for its > own good!) and for audio sample editing (I haven't found a decent sample > editor for linux) I'd forgotten about that....mmm Wavelab :) The *main* reason of course is I actually bought all these tools back when I had money, so I'm loathe to stop using 'em until they're not useful any more. > outlook has (none, knowing MS). If I can get mails from outlook in plain > text format, I can script something that'll produce a unix-style mbox > format and I know Evolution will import that. I think you can do that actually. Yep, you can export to a comma or tab separated file. > Luckily I don't need to refer to the old emails that often, but it's a > pain having to reboot when I do - it'd also be nice to get all the old > mail onto the server so that everything's in one place :) Yup. > What mail server do you use? I suppose it's not impossible that your ISP > is adding the field, although that would seem like a very bad thing to > be doing. Setting up a different piece of mail software and seeing what I'm doing nowt other than squirting outgoing mails direct to Demon, so it's whatever mail software they're using. A swift telnet in doesn't tell me. As a test I've removed the reply-to address to see if it makes a difference. > field is appearing in private emails that you've sent to me, so sending > to anyone you know and getting them to look at the headers would be a > fair test I reckon. The duplicate problem only happens to classiccmp it seems..... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 20 07:37:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040120083731.0081f700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:50 AM 1/20/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >I just found this whilst doing a mostly unrelated search: > >http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE: dcpolPlistCKIE:DEC++++CATEGORY > >If I'm reading this right, these guys have: > >(1) PDP 11/23 @ US$695 >(1) VAX 11/730 @ US$995 >(3) VAX 11/750 @ US$295 each >(2) PDP 11/84 @ US$1,307.12 each > >...and a plethora of other DEC gear. There's also some HP1000 series >peripherals and lots of other stuff. Might be worth looking into. $268 for a HP 7440 plotter!! $400 for a HP88140 1/4" tape!!!!! You gotta be joking! I've passed up HUNDREDs of these in trash pliles! All their prices seem to be like that. This place is about an hour from me and I've heard of them but no one that i've talked to can deal with them and their greedy prices. Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 20 07:54:22 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX Message-ID: Quick question, What would folks here be prepared to pay for this machine, particularly as it's boxed and never been used? It went into the workshop to have a hard drive fitted shortly after being bought in 1992 or thereabouts and for whatever reason it sat on a shelf forever thereafter. Or is the general concensus 'oh it's just a 386SX PC running DOS 5' Pix at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ebay/ibm/ibm.php cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 20 08:04:14 2004 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: What is an IC 2057400? From Televideo 910 Terminal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400D355E.8070704@verizon.net> I pulled it from a Televideo 910 terminal logic board. It is a 40 pin DIP with no other markings except a 1983 date code. Also, this chip is NOT in the manual for the TVI 910 on the page describing the board components. It seems that my (actually 2) terminal logic boards are later versions than what is described in the manual. The manual has no mention of the 2057400 chip but my terminals both use it. My problem, other than having no idea what the IC does, is that I have only one chip. Both terminals work. Eric From lists at microvax.org Tue Jan 20 08:36:41 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401201436.41721.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 20 Jan 2004 10:50 am, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I just found this whilst doing a mostly unrelated search: > > http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTO >RE:dcpolPlistCKIE:DEC++++CATEGORY > > If I'm reading this right, these guys have: > > (1) PDP 11/23 @ US$695 > (1) VAX 11/730 @ US$995 > (3) VAX 11/750 @ US$295 each > (2) PDP 11/84 @ US$1,307.12 each > > ...and a plethora of other DEC gear. There's also some HP1000 series > peripherals and lots of other stuff. Might be worth looking into. A 730 costs MORE than a 750?? I know they're rarer, but... huh?! alex/melt From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jan 20 09:25:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:38 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida In-Reply-To: <200401201436.41721.lists@microvax.org> References: <200401201436.41721.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <20040120152548.GA29770@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 02:36:41PM +0000, meltie wrote: > A 730 costs MORE than a 750?? I know they're rarer, but... huh?! You can run an 11/730 in an office environment on a 15A 110V wall plug. A loaded 11/750 takes a bit more current. Of course, the 11/730 runs at 60% of the speed of the 11/750, and the 11/730 is so limited on memory (5MB?) that you are hard pressed to run anything above VMS 5.0 on it (I think you can run 6.x on the 11/750, but I've never tried it personally). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 15:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -8.5 F (-22.5 C) Windchill -33 F (-36.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 359 Barometer 688.7 mb (10301. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 20 09:48:31 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> Message-ID: <20040120154516.GQ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tom Jennings, from writings of Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 11:29:08PM -0800: > On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 18:32, ben franchuk wrote: > > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) Oh really? :-) When was the last time that you saw someone pop open a tube and replace or repair an open filament, repair a short between elements or restore the vacuum in a gassy tube, etc., and then put the tube back into use? > I have a new design (yes you read right) for a tube computer, probably > 75 envelopes, on my website. 20 bits, serial arith, drum memory but I > later realized that switched-capacitor (aka DRAM) was actually > historically acceptable since one was made (NBS "test" computer; the > diodes were too expensive in 1952 but it was basically just a DRAM). Neat! Slow, but most interesting. > Somehow, I can't find the money to make it. But I'm serious enough, > there's an assembler and simulator there (wps.com/projects). What appears to be the most expensive aspect of the project thus far? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 20 09:53:08 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: pcb mount 2.5mm power socket Message-ID: Hi folks, Has anyone got a spare 2.5mm 12V DC power socket that's PCB mounted? The one I'm replacing looks exactly like these: http://tinyurl.com/2mhkr http://tinyurl.com/3gtau I can only get 'em in packs of 10 and I don't really want to buy 10! Cheers all! -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Jan 20 09:59:23 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <400D505B.DAC5E1D1@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 10:26:32PM -0500, Christian Fandt wrote: > > >And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone > > >else want one? > > Yes! > And me! Jerome Fine replies: I would also like one! > I used to build Qbus and Unibus (and VAXBI!) boards at Software Results > Corp. ISTR we spent >$100 per Qbus blank board because we never made orders > larger than q. 100. They are large boards (by today's standards) and with > that much gold, aren't cheap to make. > > Here's a suggestion: lay out the board with the bus drivers (and grants) > for *both* Qbus _and_ Unibus, and only populate the variety you wish to > make. At least that way, you'd have a chance to boost the quantity of > boards made, and bring down the price a little. > > For me, at least, the hard part of designing a modern Qbus and/or Unibus > interface would be what to select for bus drivers. I happen to have a > small handful of real DEC Qbus chips (from my Q-BOARD days), and a large > quantity of 8641 chips. It's choosing the other stuff that gets hard. > It's not so bad in a small backplane, but if you use your Unibus boxes > like we used to (11/750 w/internal DD11DK + BA-11 + 3 x DD11DK...), > adhering to the spec becomes important. I thought I would respond to both posts at the same time! >Andreas Holz wrote: >please have a look at that: >http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ >But that is not really preferable solution. We have to replace the >MFM-discs with a black-box! >We had a thread how to replace MFM-discs at the end of last year. We >should continue this thread! As probably those of you who are interested in RT-11 know, I am interested in the software end. If anyone should manage to produce a Qbus version which allows an IDE drive of more than 8 GBytes (sort of hard NOT to have these days), then RT-11 will need modifications to the MSCP (DU.SYS) device driver to accommodate that size of drive. I have been thinking about how to accomplish that for the past 10 years, in actual fact, so it would not be a technical difficulty as far as I can see. And as well, probably most other MSCP device drivers will also need to be modified. For RT-11, the basic hooks are already there, just that DEC mangled them during implementation. In RT-11, there is a 2 word entry for each mapping entry for each physical RT-11 partition: word 1 => Physical Unit Number from 0 to 255 byte 3 => Physical Partition Number from 0 to 255 byte 4 => Controller (or Host Adapter) Number from 0 to 3 Probably the most straight forward way would be to swap the Physical Unit Number word and the Physical Partition Number byte. That way the RT-11 Physical Partition Number can have a range from 0 to 65535 and the Physical Unit Number can retain its range from 0 to 255. I will not address the problem of keeping track of 65536 RT-11 partitions on a 2 TerraByte hard drive. If it was suggested that more than 256 Physical Unit Numbers should also be allowed, there are ample bits left to be used from the 6 left over from the Controller Number. If an additional field of 2 bits is used to allow two more format definitions for a total of 4 format definitions, then 4 more bits could be allocated to the Physical Unit Numbers for a total of 12 bits would would allow for unit numbers to range from 0 to 4095. The code changes needed would be in the DU(X).SYS device drivers and RESORC.SAV which displays the table for the user of the mapping entries. Neither should be a big problem. Indeed, I would probably shift the code from RESORC.SAV to the device driver in the form of a command: SET DU SHOW and have RESORC.SAV check the device driver for that capability during the: SHOW DEVICE:DU command execution, then exit RESORC.SAV with that request to RT-11 to perform the needed command. In fact, in my opinion, that is how RT-11 should be able to support the display of the mapping entries, i.e. have all the code within the device driver. That would also allow the mapping entries to be displayed for MSCP device drives which could not be installed because they did not have the correct attributes for that version of the RT-11 operating system that was being used. There are already DECUS programs which allow that. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 20 10:11:32 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: I have two opinions on the Subject: It depends on whether functionality is the prime goal, or actual 'form, fit and layout' is to be maintained. If I was going to make Unibus (or any legacy bus) modules, I'd use a card-edge-to-Eurocard adapter, then make all my designs on the standard connector layout... the object being that one leaves the adapter in the buss connector and and just works with the Eurocard format module. Of course there are any number of interface connecting schemes that would fulfill this idea. On the Other Hand - if the goal was a 'real' Unibus module, then the actual legacy layout would be the order of the day... that being said - I am wondering if companies like Vector made blank and 'prototype' cards for the various Mimis, like they did for S100, and later, PC cards...? Cheers John From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Jan 20 10:18:43 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040120083731.0081f700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040120083731.0081f700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1074615523.2165.46.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> I've tried dealing with these folks in the past. It's a wonder they're still in business. The conversation goes something like: Me: I'm interested in XYZ CP: I'll have to go to the warehouse to see if we have it in stock. I'll call you back when I know something. ...and I would never get a call back. Repeated calls would just end in a loo (ie same response and no progress). On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 05:37, Joe R. wrote: > At 02:50 AM 1/20/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: > > > >I just found this whilst doing a mostly unrelated search: > > > >http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE: > dcpolPlistCKIE:DEC++++CATEGORY > > > >If I'm reading this right, these guys have: > > > >(1) PDP 11/23 @ US$695 > >(1) VAX 11/730 @ US$995 > >(3) VAX 11/750 @ US$295 each > >(2) PDP 11/84 @ US$1,307.12 each > > > >...and a plethora of other DEC gear. There's also some HP1000 series > >peripherals and lots of other stuff. Might be worth looking into. > > > $268 for a HP 7440 plotter!! $400 for a HP88140 1/4" tape!!!!! You gotta > be joking! I've passed up HUNDREDs of these in trash pliles! All their > prices seem to be like that. This place is about an hour from me and I've > heard of them but no one that i've talked to can deal with them and their > greedy prices. > > Joe -- TTFN - Guy From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Jan 20 10:31:37 2004 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: System programmers vs. administrators In-Reply-To: <20040117201601.99162.qmail@web14204.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040117201601.99162.qmail@web14204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040120163137.GC754@uiuc.edu> Personally, I'm a UNIX admin who also does programming, and I certainly use both parts of my brain. Admining (at least for me) involves as much, if not more, creativity/synthesis as 'logical' thinking. Of course, I primarily admin HPC systems and clusters for a research department at the university of illinois, so my workload probably differs (at least a bit) from a lot of admins. I can see if you're an admin in a strict corporate environment (I know a couple of these), there must be less creativity and more strict following of procedure & logical diagnosis. As far a programming is concerned, it's gotta be a pretty even mix...otherwise you'll have great ideas that don't work (a program is inherently strictly logical after all, and you have to be able to follow that in your head in order to succeed), or wonderful logic statements that don't do anything interesting! Subramanian Iyer said: > Hmm, > well u know what, the system programmers i guess use > the right side of their brain, while the admins use > their left. > i guess, as an admin, u need to look at individual > problems and try to solve them with a more logical and > rational approach > while, a programmer would have to use his creativity, > and intuition to be able to "design" programs/SWs. > and, > i'm neither of them, so no bias here!!! > what do u think, curt??? > > > > > > > > >Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:17:33 -0800 > From: Ernest > Subject: System programmers vs. administrators > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <1074320253.1586.16.camel@ernest> > Content-Type: text/plain > > I was having a discussion with a friend earlier > tonight about > programming, and how I've never been the least bit > interested in > learning how to program -I'm convinced that I have a > mental block > against it, or something like that. > > As the discussion progressed, we decided that there > are two types of > advanced computer users -system programmers and system > administrators. > That in itself is debatable but where our discussion > became bogged down > was when we tried to decide which user was left brain, > and which was > right brain. > > We started by agreeing that programmers are artists, > while the > administrators are more scientific. But then, as we > talked, we decided > that you could make the same arguement for each side. > > So, I thought I would throw the discussion out here, > and see what you > guys think. Assuming that there really are two types > of computer users > -programmers and administrators- which side is left > brain thinking, and > which is right brain thinking? > > I pulled the following off some psycho-babble website: > > > Experimentation has shown that the two different > sides, or hemispheres, > of the brain are responsible for different manners of > thinking. The > following table illustrates the differences between > left-brain and > right-brain thinking: > > Left Brain: > > Logical > Sequential > Rational > Analytical > Objective > Looks at parts > > Right Brain: > > Random > Intuitive > Holistic > Synthesizing > Subjective > Looks at wholes > > > Most individuals have a distinct preference for one of > these styles of > thinking. Some, however, are more whole-brained and > equally adept at > both modes. In general, schools tend to favor > left-brain modes of > thinking, while downplaying the right-brain ones. > Left-brain scholastic > subjects focus on logical thinking, analysis, and > accuracy. > Right-brained subjects, on the other hand, focus on > aesthetics, > feeling, > and creativity. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:19:54 -0500 > From: "Curt vendel" > Subject: Re: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > To: , "General Discussion: > On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts" > Message-ID: <000601c3dd1e$211f6990$1a02a8c0@starship1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hmmmm.... > > D/L'ing now... curious to check this out :-) > > I have a Mac OS X 10.2 Server running in my office, so > I'm curious to > see > how these interact... > > Curt > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/) (UNIX Systems Administrator, School of Chemical Sciences, UIUC) (333-1728) From erikb at digischool.nl Tue Jan 20 08:06:55 2004 From: erikb at digischool.nl (Erik Brens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: References: <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <5.2.1.1.2.20040119215737.0262d160@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20040120044520.GA26126@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040120150655.A602@...> > You know what would be more useful, IMHO, a Qbus/Unibus USB adapter. A generic XBUS <-> Centronics/USB/Firewire interface attached to modern hardware running a device emulator would be even more useful. The device emulator would keep track of interface settings (device addresses, interrupt priority levels, etc.) and the actual devices, which could be real peripherals or files on your disk. Include three sets of bus drivers and the interface could be made to work on the (physically compatible) UNI-, Q- and OMNIBUS. Sincerely, Erik. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jan 20 10:41:13 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Qube (warner Amex) In-Reply-To: <69C51A78.031B7F02.0A039148@aol.com> References: <69C51A78.031B7F02.0A039148@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040120164113.GB1625@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 05:44:52PM -0500, CBurroughs@aol.com wrote: > Hello Friend, > I actually have an old Qube box in my closet. The weird thing is that it > doesn't work on any other cable systems, except the old qube system. The old QUBE system is no more (at least not in Columbus, OH, where it started). My family had it from day zero (including all the billing bugs that were so bad that for the first month, all the movies were free). > You know much about how they work? I would like to get this one to work. I know *nothing* about how cable boxes work. I presume they are a mass of switched filter elements, but beyond that, I think most of the magic of Qube happened at the other end. > I have opened the unit, but see nothing wrong that would cause it to > power up and then the display goes dead. Perhaps it doesn't see the right signal from the central cable office? Perhaps you have one of the later units that has a tamper switch? What does your "pendant" look like? Is it the oldest one that's mostly roundish with a cylindrical magnetic "key" at the top? Is it newer with a wafer key at the cable box? The very oldest boxes could be coaxed to give up free movies by pressing all five "response" buttons, then switching the column from either "C" or "T" to "P". The corresponding LED would not change, but the channel would. You could then select P1 to P10 with the row buttons, and the system would not notice. The next generation box could be tricked by holding a speaker magnet underneath and switching columns. After that, you had to pry open the pendant and stick a paper clip in the correct rivet hole in the response button switch bank (I forget which one). Finally, they modified the box to send back billing pulses when a premium channel was being displayed (but you could build an analog filter to block it). The last incarnation would cut you off if it was sending out premium content and did not get any billing pulses in a 15 minute interval (you had to call them up on the phone to turn your service back on). That was pretty much the end of free pay-per-view Qube. All this information is, um, anecdotal, naturally. :-) -ethan P.S. - years after we cancelled Qube for repeated billing screwups, I ended up working with one of the office managers and one of the Qube billing programmers at Software Results. Heard some interesting stories about why things were so screwed up in the early days, but they translate to overeager executives and unrealistic deadlines made worse by decreasing funding (interactive cable implies locally produced programming which became too expensive to produce year after year). -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 16:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -7.9 F (-22.2 C) Windchill -29.9 F (-34.4 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.30 kts Grid 346 Barometer 688.5 mb (10305. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 10:43:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Annoyingly OT: Adrian's mail problem solved (was RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > I'm doing nowt other than squirting outgoing mails direct to Demon, so it's > whatever mail software they're using. A swift telnet in doesn't tell me. As > a test I've removed the reply-to address to see if it makes a difference. Guess what? IT WORKED! Hooray. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 10:44:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040120083731.0081f700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Joe R. wrote: > $268 for a HP 7440 plotter!! $400 for a HP88140 1/4" tape!!!!! You > gotta be joking! I've passed up HUNDREDs of these in trash pliles! All > their prices seem to be like that. This place is about an hour from me > and I've heard of them but no one that i've talked to can deal with them > and their greedy prices. I noticed that. The best deal seemed to be for the VAX 11/750 ($295, which is not that bad). They seem to operate like a pawn shop. But, if it's something hard to find that you absolutely need, they would be good as a last resort. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 10:46:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > Quick question, > > What would folks here be prepared to pay for this machine, particularly as > it's boxed and never been used? It went into the workshop to have a hard > drive fitted shortly after being bought in 1992 or thereabouts and for > whatever reason it sat on a shelf forever thereafter. > > Or is the general concensus 'oh it's just a 386SX PC running DOS 5' > > Pix at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ebay/ibm/ibm.php I've got one, and don't find it particularly compelling. It's an odd pre-Think Pad IBM laptop. Required if you must have every model of PS/2. Almost new in box? $10 (UKP$5.50) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Jan 20 10:57:14 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida References: <3.0.6.32.20040120083731.0081f700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1074615523.2165.46.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <001001c3df76$74998920$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Sotomayor" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida > I've tried dealing with these folks in the past. It's a wonder they're > still in business. The conversation goes something like: > Me: I'm interested in XYZ > CP: I'll have to go to the warehouse to see if we have it in > stock. I'll call you back when I know something. > > ...and I would never get a call back. Repeated calls would just end in > a loo (ie same response and no progress). > Maybe those people are waiting for a company still using the equipment to have a breakdown? Who knows they probably are using the equipment to guarantee loans for something else they are doing. Lots of places have warehouses full of total junk that's valued at $xxxxxxxxxx allowing them to borrow against the inventory. IF they sell the items for what the going market rate is they would be ruined. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 20 11:06:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Annoyingly OT: Adrian's mail problem solved (was RE: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 20 January 2004 16:43 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Annoyingly OT: Adrian's mail problem solved (was RE: Aquarius > II on eBay didn't sell at over $400) > > Guess what? > > IT WORKED! > > Hooray. I shall rest easy in me bed tonight :) cheers w From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue Jan 20 11:17:41 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040120121612.0200f580@pop-server> At 11:46 AM 1/20/2004, you wrote: >I've got one, and don't find it particularly compelling. It's an odd >pre-Think Pad IBM laptop. Required if you must have every model of PS/2. >Almost new in box? $10 (UKP$5.50) Is it available for purchase? ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From CyndeM at vulcan.com Tue Jan 20 12:02:06 2004 From: CyndeM at vulcan.com (Cynde Moya) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Identity of DEC BC20K Cable Message-ID: Can anyone tell me what the BC20K is used on? Thanks Cynde Cynde Moya, MLIS Archives Cataloguer Vulcan Inc. www.vulcan.com Office Tel. 206-223-4901 Mobile Tel. 206.369.3205 Fax. 206-223-4207 From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 20 12:03:06 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? Message-ID: <0401201803.AA12617@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Here's my take on the issue of not being able to use standard drivers and receivers for UNIBUS and Q-bus. Aren't both of these buses old enough that DEC made devices for both of them using only discrete logic, no ASICs? If they did make UNIBUS and Q-bus devices w/o ASICs using only standard discrete logic, as I'm sure they did, what did they use for drivers and receivers? MS From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 20 12:15:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040120121612.0200f580@pop-server> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 11:46 AM 1/20/2004, you wrote: > >I've got one, and don't find it particularly compelling. It's an odd > >pre-Think Pad IBM laptop. Required if you must have every model of PS/2. > >Almost new in box? $10 (UKP$5.50) > > Is it available for purchase? Oops, that was a typo. There should be an extra zero at the end there ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jan 20 12:39:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <0401201803.AA12617@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401201803.AA12617@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040120183920.GA11621@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 10:03:06AM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Here's my take on the issue of not being able to use standard drivers and > receivers for UNIBUS and Q-bus. Aren't both of these buses old enough that DEC > made devices for both of them using only discrete logic, no ASICs? Yes, but some devices are not so old and _do_ use ASICs. There are some peripherals that came out at the same time as the 11/20 (~1970) that they are made up of several square feet of TTL/Linear chips. > If they did make UNIBUS and Q-bus devices w/o ASICs using only standard > discrete logic, as I'm sure they did, what did they use for drivers and > receivers? Unibus? 8640, 8641, 340, 8881, DC013 (custom DEC chip) Qbus? DC003, DC004, DC005, DC006, DC010, 74LS240, 8837, 8838 In other words, with few exceptions, *not* ordinary TTL chips (though ISTR one of their busses used hand-selected 7438s chosen for low (1uA?) leakage. There are _some_ bus lines that can be loaded/driven by ordinary parts. However, unlike an ISA card, DEC cards tended towards custom chips of their own, or designed-as-such bus drivers/receivers from companies like National Semiconductor. These are from memory, so if I've made any mistakes, I'm sure someone will correct me. :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 18:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -8.1 F (-22.3 C) Windchill -26.5 F (-32.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.2 kts Grid 033 Barometer 688.3 mb (10313. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 20 12:56:48 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida References: <3.0.6.32.20040120083731.0081f700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <009501c3df87$28e0b560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > You gotta be joking! Just the basic reseller experience. They have to deal with overstock and customer satisfaction issues all the time. John A. ...but ...but I can return trash for what I paid for it!!! From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Jan 20 13:05:58 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Qube (warner Amex) References: <69C51A78.031B7F02.0A039148@aol.com> <20040120164113.GB1625@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <001401c3df88$70cf0e70$6400a8c0@starship1> As a general rule, much of that type of earlier technology had more to do with Pie-in-the-sky marketing and wishful thinking, then on technology available to support such dream machines. Mattel's Intellivision division in the earlier 80's tried to put their game consoles onto the cable network to download games and to eventually allow Intellivisions with the computer component to access online data. Warner/Amex had been working with their then owned Atari Computer Division to have the Atari 800's hooked up the Qube network and use the computers themselves in place of the Qube terminals, I started to track down some info on this, but the person(s) I had been corresponding with moved and have since disappeared. Even Time/Warner Interactive in Florida in 1995 tried to use the Atari Jaguar 64 as an interactive setup box on their cable network. They went so far as to design an add-on module (called the Cortina) to the Jag console to add keyboard and mouse capibility to turn the Jag 64 console into a full blown game/computer system. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Qube (warner Amex) > On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 05:44:52PM -0500, CBurroughs@aol.com wrote: > > Hello Friend, > > I actually have an old Qube box in my closet. The weird thing is that it > > doesn't work on any other cable systems, except the old qube system. > > The old QUBE system is no more (at least not in Columbus, OH, where it > started). My family had it from day zero (including all the billing bugs > that were so bad that for the first month, all the movies were free). > > > You know much about how they work? I would like to get this one to work. > > I know *nothing* about how cable boxes work. I presume they are a mass of > switched filter elements, but beyond that, I think most of the magic of > Qube happened at the other end. > > > I have opened the unit, but see nothing wrong that would cause it to > > power up and then the display goes dead. > > Perhaps it doesn't see the right signal from the central cable office? > Perhaps you have one of the later units that has a tamper switch? > > What does your "pendant" look like? Is it the oldest one that's mostly > roundish with a cylindrical magnetic "key" at the top? Is it newer > with a wafer key at the cable box? > > The very oldest boxes could be coaxed to give up free movies by pressing > all five "response" buttons, then switching the column from either "C" > or "T" to "P". The corresponding LED would not change, but the channel > would. You could then select P1 to P10 with the row buttons, and the > system would not notice. The next generation box could be tricked by > holding a speaker magnet underneath and switching columns. After that, > you had to pry open the pendant and stick a paper clip in the correct > rivet hole in the response button switch bank (I forget which one). > Finally, they modified the box to send back billing pulses when a > premium channel was being displayed (but you could build an analog > filter to block it). The last incarnation would cut you off if it > was sending out premium content and did not get any billing pulses in > a 15 minute interval (you had to call them up on the phone to turn > your service back on). That was pretty much the end of free pay-per-view > Qube. > > All this information is, um, anecdotal, naturally. :-) > > -ethan > > P.S. - years after we cancelled Qube for repeated billing screwups, > I ended up working with one of the office managers and one of the > Qube billing programmers at Software Results. Heard some interesting > stories about why things were so screwed up in the early days, but > they translate to overeager executives and unrealistic deadlines > made worse by decreasing funding (interactive cable implies locally > produced programming which became too expensive to produce year after > year). > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 16:20 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -7.9 F (-22.2 C) Windchill -29.9 F (-34.4 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 8.30 kts Grid 346 Barometer 688.5 mb (10305. ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 20 13:29:42 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? Message-ID: <0401201929.AA12721@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Yes, but some devices are not so old and _do_ use ASICs. There are some > peripherals that came out at the same time as the 11/20 (~1970) that > they are made up of several square feet of TTL/Linear chips. Well, what I meant was that UNIBUS and Q-bus were designed to be implementable without ASICS using only discrete logic, and the simpler devices were implemented that way. > Unibus? 8640, 8641, 340, 8881, DC013 (custom DEC chip) > Qbus? DC003, DC004, DC005, DC006, DC010, 74LS240, 8837, 8838 > > In other words, with few exceptions, *not* ordinary TTL chips (though ISTR > one of their busses used hand-selected 7438s chosen for low (1uA?) leakage. Hmm, 74LS240 for Q-bus? It's just a standard three-state TTL inverting buffer, isn't it? For driver, receiver, or both? > designed-as-such bus drivers/receivers from companies like > National Semiconductor. Does NS still make them? MS From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jan 20 13:30:01 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: ATTN: ronbain... In-Reply-To: <1074569294.2145.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <001901c3df8b$cd2fdca0$5b01a8c0@athlon> >Next time you subscribe to a mailing list, keep the emails from the list telling you how to unsubscribe. Then you >won't have to keep asking... Or just look at the message headers on any message from the list! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jan 20 13:34:08 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Aquarius II on eBay didn't sell at over $400 In-Reply-To: <1074603277.2773.23.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <001a01c3df8c$69b215c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > let me know if you find anything, and I'll do likewise - I'm > in the same situation. I'm just about to upgrade Evolution to > see what import formats it has, plus I need to look at what If you cannot find it, let me know. I was told of something that will turn outlook into mbox format, but I've long since forgotten what it was. If it turns out not to have been Evolution (which it probably was), I'll ask the person who told me in the first place and pass the answer along. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 20 13:30:59 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: IBM 519 Punch and 083 Sorter References: Message-ID: <400D81F3.7080304@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Only $5,500 and $4,500 respectively! What a bargain! Now what what did they lease for when new a year? ( with inflation adjusted $$$ ) From lists at microvax.org Tue Jan 20 13:37:34 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <0401201929.AA12721@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401201929.AA12721@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200401201937.34485.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 20 Jan 2004 7:29 pm, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Yes, but some devices are not so old and _do_ use ASICs. There are > > some peripherals that came out at the same time as the 11/20 (~1970) > > that they are made up of several square feet of TTL/Linear chips. > > Well, what I meant was that UNIBUS and Q-bus were designed to be > implementable without ASICS using only discrete logic, and the simpler > devices were implemented that way. > > > Unibus? 8640, 8641, 340, 8881, DC013 (custom DEC chip) > > Qbus? DC003, DC004, DC005, DC006, DC010, 74LS240, 8837, 8838 > > > > In other words, with few exceptions, *not* ordinary TTL chips (though > > ISTR one of their busses used hand-selected 7438s chosen for low > > (1uA?) leakage. > > Hmm, 74LS240 for Q-bus? It's just a standard three-state TTL inverting > buffer, isn't it? For driver, receiver, or both? > > > designed-as-such bus drivers/receivers from companies like > > National Semiconductor. > > Does NS still make them? Not since I last checked. alex/melt From lists at microvax.org Tue Jan 20 13:42:38 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <1074602411.2772.8.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401191744.48309.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <1074602411.2772.8.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200401201942.38128.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 20 Jan 2004 12:40 pm, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 01:44, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > A good multisync that supports sync-on-green will be your best bet. > > I've got lots of SGI and SUN systems - and that kind of monitor will > > work on just about everything. You're in for a lot more hassle if the > > monitor doesn't do sync-on-green. > > I use an Iiyama Vision Master monitor on the desktop PC - it's probably > about 5 years old now. Has PC-style VGA input plus BNC connectors, and > can be swapped between the two from the controls on the front. From the > BNC inputs it'll do seperate H/V sync, combined H/V, and sync on green. > > I've never used the 19" screens, but this 17" one is of really nice > quality for the age. > > I've seen them go for about 40 pounds here (which is probably about > $70?). Doubtless you can get them for a fraction of that price in the US > though! 17" Iiyama Vision Masters that'll multisync up to an SGI with BNCs? For ~?40?? Where? Seriously, the red gun on my desktop 15" has just gone and with the student loan burning a hole in my pocket i'm seriously in the market for a monitor that I can use both with my PC and for my SGI Iris and Indigos... URL? Phone number? alex/melt From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jan 20 13:43:44 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <0401201929.AA12721@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401201929.AA12721@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040120194344.GA17077@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 11:29:42AM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Hmm, 74LS240 for Q-bus? It's just a standard three-state TTL inverting buffer, > isn't it? For driver, receiver, or both? I don't recall, but I've seen it on 3rd-party boards where DEC would use a DC005. Without schematics, I can't guess. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jan-2004 19:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -8.1 F (-22.3 C) Windchill -25.6 F (-32 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7 kts Grid 034 Barometer 687.9 mb (10329. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 20 13:47:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida In-Reply-To: <200401201436.41721.lists@microvax.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040120144721.007fddd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:36 PM 1/20/04 +0000, alex/melt wrote: >On Tuesday 20 Jan 2004 10:50 am, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> I just found this whilst doing a mostly unrelated search: >> >> http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTO >>RE:dcpolPlistCKIE:DEC++++CATEGORY >> >> If I'm reading this right, these guys have: >> >> (1) PDP 11/23 @ US$695 >> (1) VAX 11/730 @ US$995 >> (3) VAX 11/750 @ US$295 each >> (2) PDP 11/84 @ US$1,307.12 each >> >> ...and a plethora of other DEC gear. There's also some HP1000 series >> peripherals and lots of other stuff. Might be worth looking into. > > >A 730 costs MORE than a 750?? I know they're rarer, but... huh?! A LOT of their prices and descriptions make no since. For example the HP 9000/300 computer described as a "HP - 1MB + VIDEO". That's the markings on the back of the video card but they think that it's the name of the item. It just goes to show that they don't know anything about the stuff and that they're just picking prices out of the air. In the case of the HP 9000/300 they aren't even smart enough to find the model number (it's inside the grill). Joe > >alex/melt > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 20 13:41:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040120144138.007fc540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'd choose number two. but keep it for another 10 years and that may change. Joe At 01:54 PM 1/20/04 +0000, you wrote: >Quick question, > >What would folks here be prepared to pay for this machine, particularly as >it's boxed and never been used? It went into the workshop to have a hard >drive fitted shortly after being bought in 1992 or thereabouts and for >whatever reason it sat on a shelf forever thereafter. > >Or is the general concensus 'oh it's just a 386SX PC running DOS 5' > >Pix at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ebay/ibm/ibm.php > >cheers > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 20 13:54:39 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <200401200608.BAA22793@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > For me, at least, the hard part of designing a modern Qbus and/or > > Unibus interface would be what to select for bus drivers. > > Well, for Qbus...there's an appendix in the KA630 document that's > titled "Q22-Bus Specification". Based on that: > > >From the looks of it, for a driver you can use almost any > open-collector TTL output - at least, a quick look at the specs doesn't > reveal anything that stands out as incompatible. > > The receivers are a bit more interesting. The spec says that their > threshold must be between 1.3 and 1.7 volts and that their high-level > input current must be no greater than 80µA; it fails to give any limits > on how much current they source into a low-level input, though there > surely must be such a limit. Are there any bus receiver chips that > have a reference-voltage pin, which could be connected to (say) 1.5V? > Basically, a bunch of specialized voltage comparators? > > Personally, I'd be tempted to just use TTL and see if it works (LSTTL, > probably, since that sources less current into low-level inputs). But > of course "it works for me" isn't good enough if you're designing for > other people's use. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > Well here is what I would do: Use 34C86 line receivers as inputs - these also have the advantage of having hysteresis and meeting the low input current at 0 VCC spec. You do get about 20 ns of propagation delay but that should be ok. There are faster parts available if need be. The - inputs of the line receivers would be connected to the desired threshold. For drivers, I would use small (SOT23) discrete Mosfets perhaps with a small (10 Ohm?) drain resistor to avoid damage if inadvertantly shorted to 5V. The gate drive could be RC slew limited to keep the output edge rate within reason. For the bus state machine logic, I would use a small FPGA say a XC2S50E-TQ144 (~$12 is low quantities) This would also have enough BlockRAM to present 1KX16 to the QBUS as a boot ROM (is this enough?) and also 1KX16 to the local processor for booting. I would use a standard serial flash for downloading the FPGA config and firmware storage. A 8Mbit serial flash costs about $2.25. Most of this space is free so the local processor can load its RAM from the serial flash (about 900K bytes available) for its MSCP code. For as local processor I would probably use a AMD AU1500 (about $26 for the slowest speed grade, IIRC has serial port, AC97 codec interface for audio, 2 100BT Ethernet, 2 USB ports, SDRAM interface for say 16M SDRAM (about $6.00) and PCI bus. The PCI bus would connect to the IDE controller chip (not sure which to use and price) and perhaps have an expansion slot or two (MiniPCI-3 perhaps - they are low enough to fit) We pay about $.35 per square inch for 4 layer PCBs so with gold I would guess PCB would be in the ~$20.00 range. Peter Wallace From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 20 14:13:45 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040120144138.007fc540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. > Sent: 20 January 2004 19:42 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX > > > I'd choose number two. but keep it for another 10 years and that may > change. I suspected as much but it was worth asking anyway :) cheers W From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 20 14:29:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <200401201942.38128.lists@microvax.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401191744.48309.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <1074602411.2772.8.camel@weka.localdomain> <200401201942.38128.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <1074629879.2773.117.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 19:42, meltie wrote: > On Tuesday 20 Jan 2004 12:40 pm, Jules Richardson wrote: > 17" Iiyama Vision Masters that'll multisync up to an SGI with BNCs? Never tried them with an SGI, but the spec on them is pretty good - 27-92KHz horizontal, 50-160Hz vertical, and a 160MHz bandwidth. > For > ~?40?? Where? Seriously, the red gun on my desktop 15" has just gone and > with the student loan burning a hole in my pocket i'm seriously in the > market for a monitor that I can use both with my PC and for my SGI Iris > and Indigos... check university newsgroups, or local usenet groups for your area. I've seen several crop up around here (Cambridge) in the past. I notice there's Belinea 17" screen for sale locally at the moment for 35 pounds, but the spec isn't as good as one of the Iiyama units and I don't know what the quality is like for that manufacturer. cheers Jules From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 20 14:21:01 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> <20040120154516.GQ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <400D8DAD.6030203@jetnet.ab.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: > >>I have a new design (yes you read right) for a tube computer, probably >>75 envelopes, on my website. 20 bits, serial arith, drum memory but I >>later realized that switched-capacitor (aka DRAM) was actually >>historically acceptable since one was made (NBS "test" computer; the >>diodes were too expensive in 1952 but it was basically just a DRAM). >>Somehow, I can't find the money to make it. But I'm serious enough, >>there's an assembler and simulator there (wps.com/projects). > > > What appears to be the most expensive aspect of the project thus far? The sockets :) 6N16B-V are computer tubes. http://www.russiantubes.com/sale.php From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 20 14:14:32 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401202026.PAA26569@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > This would also have enough BlockRAM to present 1KX16 to the QBUS as > a boot ROM (is this enough?) Yes. Especially since the bootrom code can use idiosyncratic features of the board - for example, if you put an otherwise nonsensical bit combination into some register, it could be a command to DMA some big chunk of bootcode into host RAM. Then the bootcode on the qbus becomes just set up for DMA, poke the register, wait till done, jump. > [...] This all adds up to less than $100 for parts. I'd certainly pay $150 for such a board if it could drive ordinary IDE and/or SCSI disks. I'd even volunteer to write the firmware for such a project, assuming the necessary specs are available (eg, whatever protocols it needs to speak). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 20 14:36:43 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> Well my equally crazy (but smarter) friend David Forbes and I talked about making Williams memory, and the problems (modern) thereof. Well it turns out he makes oscilloscope clocks (quadrature character generators and nice things) and we talked about mocking one up -- using the 68HC08 on board, simulating a 1, 4, 8, ... bit Williams memory cell, what with all the circle/dot/slash/focus/defocus modes, we could tightly characterize readaround issues, very repidly reinvent those wheels of the past. He buys CRTs from the manufacturer and knows a lot about this stuff. http://www.cathodecorner.com. The pedant in me says a CPU bigger than all combined planteary computing resources of 1955 driving a single memory element might be cheating. Those old guys did this with tubes! It's quite terrifying. tomj On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 01:22, Brent Hilpert wrote: > Somewhere in my list of (too many) projects to work on some day is to implement one of the first (tube) computers in SSI. One I had done some design on was the SSEM/Manchester "Baby" ("the first machine to run a stored program"/1948). I did enough of the logic design to implement it in a home-brew logic simulator (executable in browser via shockwave at http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/tih/SSEM), but haven't got around to doing a physical implementation. Figured CMOS SSI would be the way to go. For the "Baby", a scope/CRT with Z-axis control could be used to emulate the original 32-bit-by-32-word storage-tube-memory monitor. I have an HP digital signal analyser from 1969 (basically an early digital oscilloscope) which has all the CRT support and power supplies and figured the new/old processor could be built into the HP DSA with a new front panel, making an interesting amalgam of hardware and architecture spanning several decades of computing. The same idea could apply to some o! > ther 'scope equipment of course. > > Another interesting machine to implement in SSI might be the IAS machine, or perhaps something like the IBM 709. > One could get carried away making scale-model front-panels with lots of LEDs and miniature toggle switches. From eric at rothfus.com Tue Jan 20 15:36:45 2004 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Kaypro II's Message-ID: <1074628506@rothfus.com> We're lucky here in Austin, TX to have the Goodwill Computer Store. They often get old classics from people and sell them for non-ePay-like prices. I was just there today, and they had 3 Kaypro II machines for $20 per machine. On a scale of 1 to 10, they were quality 5, 6, & 7 or so. Alas, no software... but it beats $50-$100 deals on ePay. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 20 14:48:07 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040120154516.GQ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> <20040120154516.GQ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1074631106.1689.81.camel@dhcp-251236> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 07:45, R. D. Davis wrote: > > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) > > Oh really? :-) When was the last time that you saw someone pop open a > tube and replace or repair an open filament, repair a short between > elements or restore the vacuum in a gassy tube, etc., and then put the > tube back into use? SOrry, I misspoke, by 'repair' I meant 'replace'. Though my father had an 01 (not 01A) tube with I swear an RCA base and a Westinghouse envelope (seal on top of tube) or converse. I lost it as a kid (ouch). > > I have a new design (yes you read right) for a tube computer, probably > > 75 envelopes, on my website. 20 bits, serial arith, drum memory > Neat! Slow, but most interesting. Not even capable of keeping a 60 wpm tty at full tilt -- but few small machines of the first gen could (eg. the LGP-21 took 7 seconds (7000 mS) to checksum 64 contiguous words of memory). Relative speed is umm relative. > > Somehow, I can't find the money to make it. But I'm serious enough, > > there's an assembler and simulator there (wps.com/projects). > What appears to be the most expensive aspect of the project thus far? Prototype development I'd say. The remaining paper circuit design could be done in "spare time". I have no pretense of being a better tube designer than the greybeards. Reliability and work-first-time is to me more important than speed, which mattered most 'back then', so dropping margins (80 KHz clock) and fancy hardware (eg. no mult/div) and using 50 years of hindsight (eg. IO design!) and the fact the silicon diodes cost $5/100, not $50 each (equiv $) makes that part doable. Drum memory was scary though, I have a design (not on www) for a mthod of construction, but it's still scary to construct. Switched-cap is easier, and using a PC board you could get 500 cells per PCB easy, likel 1024 (big 2-sided boards) and with 20 of those you'd have a Kword. 4Kwords would be best. That's just a first-order conservative guess as we didn't talk details on it. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 20 14:44:52 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> Message-ID: <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> Holger Veit wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Tssss. Not to discourage you, but a TTL computer with bazillions of ICs > is not really suited for newbies, although there is plenty to learn - > namely on those nasty aspects like circuit timing, delays, glitches, > noise on power and signal lines. TTL is to a large degree analog, not digital, > circuit development ;-) So are TUBE computers better? > You might not directly want to start with a monster like Computer 74 or > EGO, but perhaps with a simple ALU/register device: get a 2901 circuit > from BG-Micro and play a bit with it (a breadboard with lots of switches > and LEDs is sufficient). And then extend it with a 2909/-10/-11 from the same > source and build the micro control for that toy. This is already the > basic step towards an own homegrown system. Using LS TTL ( also from BG-MICRO ) I expect I'll need about 32 chips for a 12 bit ALU and 32 chips for basic control. I suspect about the same for front panel logic. Since I don't have a PROM or PAL burner a bit slice design out of the question for me. Ben. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 20 14:55:27 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> Message-ID: Have we forgotten John Zabolitzky's MUNIAC? While I do not think he has completed it yet... nonetheless parts of it function and have been displayed at various VCFs... it is constructed on standardized Eurocards, which are them populated with the correct components to realize a particular function - gates, flip-flops, buffers, etc. Hans Franke might know if any documentation for this is available someplace... And no one has had the utter madness to suggest a replica of the Mark I or II relay machine..... or the SSEC.... or any of the Bell System relay computers.... Then of course - there's Stonehenge. Cheers John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 20 15:02:35 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> Message-ID: <400D976B.70609@jetnet.ab.ca> John Lawson wrote: > > Have we forgotten John Zabolitzky's MUNIAC? While I do not think he has > completed it yet... nonetheless parts of it function and have been > displayed at various VCFs... it is constructed on standardized Eurocards, > which are them populated with the correct components to realize a > particular function - gates, flip-flops, buffers, etc. I would like more details too myself. > > And no one has had the utter madness to suggest a replica of the Mark I > or II relay machine..... or the SSEC.... or any of the Bell System relay > computers.... > Yet! > > Then of course - there's Stonehenge. They have that done already. ( But the replica don't work since it is on the wrong latitude ) > > Cheers > > John > From shirker at mooli.org.uk Tue Jan 20 15:19:12 2004 From: shirker at mooli.org.uk (Shirker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <400D505B.DAC5E1D1@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 10:26:32PM -0500, Christian Fandt wrote: > > > >And, if I did manage to create a realiable IDE interface, would anyone > > > >else want one? > > > Yes! > > And me! > I would also like one! Me too! Ed. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 20 16:46:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this today. It's about 6 1/2" x 7" and has 8 30 pin SIMM sockets and a 60 pin ribbon cable header on it. It's marked 701-2214-001. Does anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? Joe From aek at spies.com Tue Jan 20 16:59:25 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: ECMA 46 tape standard Message-ID: <200401202259.i0KMxPKJ011962@spies.com> > I've been asked about a quarter-inch tape standard from 1976, called ECMA-46 0Bh X3.55-1982, X3.56-1986, ECMA-46, ISO 4057-1979 from the scsi spec.. There is a copy of X3.56-1977 hiding in the back of a quantex tape drive manual that I scanned this morning. This is one of the original 1/4" tape formats, for a drive with a fixed position four-track head stack (the norm prior to what became the QIC11 moving head 4 track standard) The scan is here: www.bitsavers.org/pdf/quantex/TM1001_650_Jul81.pdf the spec is appendix A From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 20 17:02:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:39 2005 Subject: paging: Bruce Lane Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040120180218.007a9740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know what has happened to Bruce Lane? I've tried both of his E-mail addresses and both messages bounced. Joe From aek at spies.com Tue Jan 20 17:05:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? Message-ID: <200401202305.i0KN5ZY7012982@spies.com> It's marked 701-2214-001. Does anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? -- A Unisite From rmu_scada at yahoo.com Tue Jan 20 16:23:06 2004 From: rmu_scada at yahoo.com (Joe Abbott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Cromemco SCC Eproms Message-ID: <20040120222306.73700.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone have images of Rom 0 and Rom 1 for Cromemco SCC S100 single board Z80 computer? My manual states first half of Rom 0 contains monitor progrom and remaining Rom 0 and Rom 1 contain 3k Basic Interpreter. Source code or hex listing would be OK too. I believe Eproms were part no. MCB-416 and they are 2716s. Thanks in advance, Joe A __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 20 17:10:23 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Apple RGB monitor Message-ID: I have an AppleColor RGB monitor taking up space. This is the 12" (or so) tube used with the IIgs, and connects to the machine with the Dmumble cable (I can't remember how many pins - might be 15). This worked last time I tried it out, about two months ago. Anyone need it (with the cable) for a big five bucks? Shipping from 10512. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 20 17:00:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: DEC systems for sale by dealer in Florida In-Reply-To: <200401201436.41721.lists@microvax.org> from "meltie" at Jan 20, 4 02:36:41 pm Message-ID: > A 730 costs MORE than a 750?? I know they're rarer, but... huh?! I'd _much_ rather have a 11/730 than an 11/750. It's smaller for one thing (I doubt I'd have space for an 11/750 CPU), and it's a _lot_ easier to maintain. There are only 2 custom chips in the 730 -- the memory ECC gate arrays. Everything else is standard parts (including, IIRC, 8 2901s) and non-protected PALs (loads of them!). IMHO the 11/730 is one of the few VAXen that I'd want to have to keep running... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 20 17:06:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <0401201803.AA12617@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at Jan 20, 4 10:03:06 am Message-ID: > > Here's my take on the issue of not being able to use standard drivers and > receivers for UNIBUS and Q-bus. Aren't both of these buses old enough that DEC > made devices for both of them using only discrete logic, no ASICs? If they did Well, that was certainly the case for Unibus. I think all DEC Qbus boards used the DC005, etc, ASICs, theough... > make UNIBUS and Q-bus devices w/o ASICs using only standard discrete logic, as > I'm sure they did, what did they use for drivers and receivers? Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) Receiver : SP380 (quad 2 input NOR) Good luck in finding either of these new today... -tony From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 20 17:19:59 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Someone need a VAX in a icebox? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040120180218.007a9740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=310004&convertTo=USD DIGITAL SYSTEM 4 AC4 FLEET DATA SYSTEM W/ MDL R80, VAX 11/ 730, MDL RL02, MDL TS11 PARTS & (2) KOOLTRONIC ELECTRONIC CABINET AIR CONDITIONER UNITS KAC 6 Peter Wallace From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 20 17:31:24 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Identity of DEC BC20K Cable In-Reply-To: "Cynde Moya" "Identity of DEC BC20K Cable" (Jan 20, 10:02) References: Message-ID: <10401202331.ZM11091@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 20, 10:02, Cynde Moya wrote: > Can anyone tell me what the BC20K is used on? According to one of my DEC optons and modules microfiche, it's a PCL11-B Y Cable. Another one says it's a TDM Bus Node Cable, 10', which fits. I'd guess it's a ribbon cable, since all the other BC20x cables are. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 20 17:50:51 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074631106.1689.81.camel@dhcp-251236> Message-ID: > SOrry, I misspoke, by 'repair' I meant 'replace'. Though my father had > an 01 (not 01A) tube with I swear an RCA base and a Westinghouse > envelope (seal on top of tube) or converse. I lost it as a kid (ouch). This is because Westinghouse made many (most, I think) of RCAs 201s. GE made them as well. > Prototype development I'd say. Have you obtained all of the tubes you need? I noticed on your websight you mention using "Red Series" tubes. As you probably figured out, those (RCA Red Line or Bendix Red Bank) are pretty expensive. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Jan 20 17:53:20 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? In-Reply-To: <200401202305.i0KN5ZY7012982@spies.com> References: <200401202305.i0KN5ZY7012982@spies.com> Message-ID: <200401201553200119.10A4BD92@192.168.42.129> Sounds like the RAM expander for the 29B. Can you post a photo? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20-Jan-04 at 15:05 Al Kossow wrote: >It's marked 701-2214-001. Does >anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? > >-- > >A Unisite -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Jan 20 17:55:40 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401201555400255.10A6E0FF@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20-Jan-04 at 17:46 Joe R. wrote: >Found this today. It's about 6 1/2" x 7" and has 8 30 pin SIMM sockets >and a 60 pin ribbon cable header on it. It's marked 701-2214-001. Does >anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? The 60-pin header is a giveaway. That's either the 4MB or 8MB memory expander for the UniSite series (with the original controller board -- it won't work on the later production units). Take a close look at the label on the PAL. It should have a Data I/O part number on it. Tell me what that number is, and I can tell you which memory size it will accommodate. It'll use standard 1Mx9 PARITY SIMMs. You MUST use parity, and (in most cases) they must be the nine-chip type. Data I/O expander boards had trouble with the three-chip type SIMMs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Jan 20 17:58:00 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: paging: Bruce Lane In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040120180218.007a9740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040120180218.007a9740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401201558000515.10A904E8@192.168.42.129> I'm here, Joe. Hang on... I'll check the reject log... Ah! There's why... I've been bouncing mail from the entire RR domain lately. They've had a bad spammer and virus-compromised machine situation for the longest time. I've pulled the domain-wide block, and gone back to surgical strikes. Please try again. Thanks... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20-Jan-04 at 18:02 Joe R. wrote: >Anybody know what has happened to Bruce Lane? I've tried both of his >E-mail addresses and both messages bounced. > > Joe -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 20 17:46:13 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI?" (Jan 20, 20:18) References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401191744.48309.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <1074602411.2772.8.camel@weka.localdomain> <200401201942.38128.lists@microvax.org> <1074629879.2773.117.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10401202346.ZM11100@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 20, 20:18, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 19:42, meltie wrote: > > On Tuesday 20 Jan 2004 12:40 pm, Jules Richardson wrote: > > 17" Iiyama Vision Masters that'll multisync up to an SGI with BNCs? > > Never tried them with an SGI, but the spec on them is pretty good - > 27-92KHz horizontal, 50-160Hz vertical, and a 160MHz bandwidth. > check university newsgroups, or local usenet groups for your area. I've > seen several crop up around here (Cambridge) in the past. A friend of mine at work has two spare SGI 17" monitors that were used with Indigos, and coincidentally he asked me this afternoon if I wanted them. He's going to chuck them if no-one does. Are these any good to you? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 20 18:03:06 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Have we forgotten John Zabolitzky's MUNIAC? No, but I haven't heard anything about it since the initial flurry of activity. I would also like to fool around with making a tube based computer, but frankly, I have enough projects to keep me busy. I have the tubes - probably about 2000 computer rated dual triodes of various flavors, but I am holding them until someone rolls a tubeless 709 up my driveway. One thing I would find very interesting is making a tube computer (or rather just the building blocks) using technology from 1930. No modern stuff. Vintage tubes (24s, 27s, and the like), vintage sockets, vintage caps and resistors, and so forth. It might be fun to see if even basic logic functions could be made reasonably. Of course, a full computer (imagine racks and racks of black wrinkle chassis with glowing tubes behind) is silly for many reasons - size (even a serial machine would have a big footprint), and parts availability (the tubes are not so bad, it is everthing else, like *good* *reliable* vintage caps, as well as the iron). And the radio people would probably hang you for buying up all these parts. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Jan 20 18:10:28 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? I "might" have a few of them laying around that I could use right about now... If nothing else, a pinout would be helpful. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jan 20 13:31:40 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040121003052.VHBH23150.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Quick question, > > What would folks here be prepared to pay for this machine, > particularly as it's boxed and never been used? It went into the > workshop to have a hard drive fitted shortly after being bought in > 1992 or thereabouts and for whatever reason it sat on a shelf > forever thereafter. > > Or is the general concensus 'oh it's just a 386SX PC running DOS 5' > > Pix at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ebay/ibm/ibm.php > > cheers This is nice notebook and I almost chose that but a ill-informed reviewer said uses non-standard hd (1) and I went with compaq LTE 386s/20 an awful notebook to go with college. Used that compaq to bits even unsoldered 386sx cpu for 25mhz AMD 386sx cpu and replaced the oscillator chip. Worked like a treat and blew away cyrix's 486SLC because compaq used external 1K 2way cache. 1. I found out few years later that L40 SX uses standard simm picking correct chip type and file the middle notch bit deeper, resolder the SMD resistor chips to present correct memory type ID to notebook. HD is actually standard 2.5" notebook hd 44pin IDE. Aggh! Should had known and took that L40 SX instead! FYI: LTE 286 was the first notebook to use electrically standard 44pin pinout but physical pin spacing was not. HD was unique 3.5" x .75" stubby HD by conner. If that hd is bad which is really often is, simply make new cable adapter to accept standard 2.5" notebook HD (done one already and this works). Physical mounting the 2.5" in 3.5" space is up to reader's excerise. If others is wondering, I don't have L40 SX. Someday I will find one cheaply in decent condition to play with. Cheers, Wizard From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 20 19:17:31 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> Message-ID: <20040121011250.GB306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 03:55:27PM -0500: > And no one has had the utter madness to suggest a replica of the Mark I > or II relay machine..... or the SSEC.... or any of the Bell System relay > computers.... Relays don't normally glow, alas, but they do make nice sounds. My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 20 19:19:21 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:44:52PM -0700: > So are TUBE computers better? Theoretically, they could be faster than solid state computers. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jan 20 19:43:05 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! Message-ID: Hi all, The local scrap dealer has 4 11/34's available (two regular ones, and two in Tektronix OEM mode, meaning, relabeled) which have a bunch (I believe I saw 4) RK05-J's and a magtape unit that seems to be a generic magtape (TU77?). He also has a VAX 7000 there- given its size I didnt look at that in any detail.. too big for me. What would those PDPs be valued for? He'll scrap em for gold, oviously. I dont need all the Tek programmable power supplies and (readback) digital voltage meters crap, nor do I want or need the two or three Tek color terminals (the greenish-silk screen ones). Anyone want any of the above? I would like an 11/34 with dual RK05 out of it, and would hate to see it go to the melter.. Pse reply offlist for quickest response :) (they're going to the melter tomorrow night..) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From jplist at kiwigeek.com Tue Jan 20 19:45:57 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Digital 'Hierach Storage Contrller' HSC70 - What is it? Message-ID: There's one of these puppies on eBay right now, I spotted it in my wanderings, and out of curiousity I went to look it up on Google - and didn't find much at all to explain WHAT the thing actually is. I find "Hierach Storage Controller" and something about it being a "Mass storage controller" - but not much more. It's a hell of a best for being an overblown HBA... What is it really? Whats this about a hierachy? :P Thanks folks; The ever curious JP From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Jan 20 19:51:45 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121011250.GB306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040121014815.042c9278@pop.freeserve.net> At 20:12 20/01/2004 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: >My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of >electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. Even sillier... I'd like to see someone build a replica of HEX, from the Terry Pratchet Discworld books - from the descriptions, it's digital computer that operates via ants running around tubes.. (I guess, get them a fine enough bore so that the ants couldn't turn around, you could get it to work...) Rob. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 20 20:09:01 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040121014815.042c9278@pop.freeserve.net> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> <5.1.1.6.0.20040121014815.042c9278@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <20040121020422.GD306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Rob O'Donnell, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 01:51:45AM +0000: > >My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of > >electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. > > Even sillier... That was not a "silly" idea; it was a serious idea, and I don't see why it isn't possible. It could have some very practical applications. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From thompson at new.rr.com Tue Jan 20 20:01:30 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Digital 'Hierach Storage Contrller' HSC70 - What is it? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is interfaces dual port DEC SDI disks or tapes to multiple vaxen in a CI vaxcluster. (How's that for jargon?) It conatins a PDP J11 cpu, runs the CRONIC os. speaks MSCP... On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, JP Hindin wrote: > > There's one of these puppies on eBay right now, I spotted it in my > wanderings, and out of curiousity I went to look it up on Google - and > didn't find much at all to explain WHAT the thing actually is. > > I find "Hierach Storage Controller" and something about it being a "Mass > storage controller" - but not much more. It's a hell of a best for being > an overblown HBA... What is it really? > Whats this about a hierachy? :P > > Thanks folks; > > The ever curious JP > -- From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 20 20:01:56 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Televideo 950 and DEC VT-100 keyboard photos wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400DDD94.7090402@jcwren.com> I need a good picture of a Televideo 950 keyboard and a DEC VT-100 keyboard. I checked around for the 950, any of the few I can find the keys are not readable. VT100 returned so many hits, even qualified, I could not find a photo in the first 200 hits. A good pictorial diagram would be acceptable, also. --jc From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 20 20:15:05 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: ATR-8000 & other miscellania acquired today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400DE0A9.6040906@jcwren.com> I picked up a load of assorted S-100 gear from a local fellow today. One of the items in the pile is a Software Publishers ATR-8000. In searching for exactly what I had acquired, I came across this paragraph at http://www.atarimagazines.com/v2n4/productreviews.html: "CP/M is much more versatile than the ATARI, but also much more difficult to use. Most people who buy CP/M computers either get it from a system house and have the programs configured to their needs, or are programmers. I cannot imagine how a beginner, as I was when I first bought my ATARI, could get their new Osborne or KayPro to run! The ATR8000 with CP/M is a good buy for someone who wants to use the excellent software available for CP/M as well as have an ATARI for games and use the same disk drives, printers and other peripherals. The basic unit for only $350 is an even better buy if you have no need for CP/M." Much more difficult to use? Yea, that DIR command is *complicated*. Also acquired was a Northstar Horizon chassis w/ 5 or 6 cards but sans wooden lid (sigh...), an IMSAI-sized system with no label (at least 6 cards in the chassis), an Atari 400, Cromeco Dazzler, a couple of S-100 sound cards, about 10 Godbought Ecoconram cards, 8 or so misc S-100 cards, a pair of 8" floppies (brand as yet unknown), a 500VA SOLA, Gould 8 channel logic analyzer, 50Khz spectrum analyzer (can't remember the model number), Microfazer, MP/M and CP/M manuals, lotsa chips in tubes (un-inventoried, although I did come across apparently unused ceramic 8080A. Time for some L@@K RARE! on eBay :) ), handful of power supplies, modem BERT set w/ nixie display, several 2MB PC memory expansion cards for XTs, an OP-80 paper tape reader (spoken for!) The rest of the load to pickup includes 5 or so TVI-920 terminals (or 920 lookalikes, might be 915's, whatever), a Zenith Data Systems box, MX-100 printer, and several Qume daisy wheel printers, Altair kit (sans case), and an unspecified handful of other S-100 cards. If only there had been a PDP-11/73... --jc From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Jan 20 20:15:17 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <400DE0B5.9040202@ntlworld.com> Joe R. wrote: > I have a SGI Indigo and Indigo II along with a pile of Sun stuff. I'm >wondering if I can replace all the funky monitors with one modern multisync >SVGA monitor. Anybody know of any reason that this won't work, or have any >recommendations about what kind of video adapter I need or where to get >one? (13W3 to SVGA). > > Joe > > > I use a 20" sgi monitor (20d11) with a sync convertor, this works with a normal pc, sgi , vax's and sun machines. The bad news is I can't remember where I got it from, it was from the US and it converts sync-on-green both ways. It is a vga convertor but with a vga cable and 2 13w3 connectors, it does the job and has done for about 3 years. The only thing I remember about it is looking at uk sites and finding they where around ?100,. The one I got worked out around $40, which is not bad when converted to pounds Dan From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 20 20:22:35 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121020422.GD306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> <5.1.1.6.0.20040121014815.042c9278@pop.freeserve.net> <20040121020422.GD306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Rob O'Donnell, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 01:51:45AM +0000: > > >My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of > > >electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. > > > > Even sillier... > > That was not a "silly" idea; it was a serious idea, and I don't see why > it isn't possible. It could have some very practical applications. One might suppose you folks have not heard of "fluidic logic"? I saw an entire digital control system for a rocket-fuel blender/loader that used compressed air as it's working medium. Fluidics was a 'fad' in the late 50s, but fell out of favor due to the precision involved in making the modules, and the fact that the tiniest particle of dirt would cause a failure. These devices work on aerodynamic principles - Bernoulli effects - and boundary layer physics. For example, the flip/flop module used an internal airfoil to guide a stream of incoming air through one of two adjacent channels. The device was 'set' or 'reset' with a transverse stream impingeing on the incoming 'main' stream, diverting it to the opposite channel, where, due to capillary action and the boundary layer laws, it stayed until it was set to the complement by another "puff" from the other port. Bleed holes, or venturis, were then used to sense the direction of flow. These were generally made of Plexiglass (Perspex) and were quite beautiful to look at... like a bunch of square prismatic blocks nestled in a forest of black rubber tubing. And this system would work on water as well, just the dimensions would have to be altered to compensate for the different phsycal characteristics of the working fluid. Cheers John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 20 21:00:49 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> <20040121011250.GB306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <400DEB61.7080702@jetnet.ab.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: > Relays don't normally glow, alas, but they do make nice sounds. > > My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of > electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. > Oh, a VALVE computer ... :) I think that digital computing using fluid logic, was air based rather than water based.I think Scientific Amercian had something on it as well in the 1970's. From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Tue Jan 20 21:20:16 2004 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Free To a good home. Message-ID: <400DEFF0.8080709@carnagevisors.net> Hi, I have an Commodore 128D that I have had for about 5 years or so, that I have done absolutly nothing with, and I would love if there was some one, who would like it. the only issue is that it would be pickup only, and I am in Melbourne, Australia. Benjamin From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 20 21:21:56 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: Message-ID: <400DF054.5080102@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >> Have we forgotten John Zabolitzky's MUNIAC? > > > No, but I haven't heard anything about it since the initial flurry of > activity. > > I would also like to fool around with making a tube based computer, but > frankly, I have enough projects to keep me busy. I have the tubes - > probably about 2000 computer rated dual triodes of various flavors, but I > am holding them until someone rolls a tubeless 709 up my driveway. Great more computers with WHEELS. > One thing I would find very interesting is making a tube computer (or > rather just the building blocks) using technology from 1930. No modern > stuff. Vintage tubes (24s, 27s, and the like), vintage sockets, vintage > caps and resistors, and so forth. It might be fun to see if even basic > logic functions could be made reasonably. Of course, a full computer > (imagine racks and racks of black wrinkle chassis with glowing tubes > behind) is silly for many reasons - size (even a serial machine would have > a big footprint), and parts availability (the tubes are not so bad, it is > everthing else, like *good* *reliable* vintage caps, as well as the iron). > And the radio people would probably hang you for buying up all these > parts. Hey, I saw just the computer you were thinking about on a old STAR TREK re-run: CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Vintage TUBE stuff is the latest fad of PRO-AUDIO, so that stuff is all dried up. You can't even get tubes from the 1940's for example: New Old Stock 6SN7 $39 ... New sov-tech 6SN7 $9. Ben. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 20 21:50:21 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Apple RGB monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401210353.WAA28768@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I have an AppleColor RGB monitor taking up space. This is the 12" > (or so) tube used with the IIgs, and connects to the machine with the > Dmumble cable (I can't remember how many pins - might be 15). If it's like the IIci I have, and the monitor that goes with it, it's a DB15 (or at least what's usually called a DB15; I can never keep the "correct" second letters straight on those). > This worked last time I tried it out, about two months ago. Anyone > need it (with the cable) for a big five bucks? Shipping from 10512. Ooh, man, I wish I could justify that to myself, but I just can't. I've got two Apple monitors already, one working as of a day or two back, the other working last I tried it and sitting untouched in a corner since - and neither one used in regular operation, even when I have the IIci turned on. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 20 21:58:12 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200401210401.XAA28807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> So are TUBE computers better? > Theoretically, they could be faster than solid state computers. How so? Are flight times between cathode and anode shorter than transit times between emitter and collector? Or is there some other effect going on that I've missed? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 20 22:32:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401210401.XAA28807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > How so? Are flight times between cathode and anode shorter than > transit times between emitter and collector? Or is there some other > effect going on that I've missed? That is basically it - flying electrons don't have other junk to bump into, like they do in solid state. This transit time problem pretty much killed standard tubes in the microwave region - to get the things to work properly, the cathode-grid-plate spacing had to be extremely small. Small, however, is not good for other reasons, namely power and capacitance. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Tue Jan 20 22:52:43 2004 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? In-Reply-To: <29b8a3734c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> <29b8a3734c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <400E059B.5090303@carnagevisors.net> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Can someone MPEG or DivX the show? If it's less than 200MB, I can provide the > hosting :) > Incidentally, I did contact Sky (the UK satellite TV co., aka BskyB) not long > ago regarding TechTV. Their response consisted of two words - "No" and > "chance". *sigh*. > > Later. hmm we are going to be getting Tech TV soon on FOXTEL (australian pay tv) they are just doing the move over to digital.. And am realy looking forward to the Screensavers show. Benjamin From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 20 22:01:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Televideo 950 and DEC VT-100 keyboard photos wanted In-Reply-To: <400DDD94.7090402@jcwren.com> References: <400DDD94.7090402@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <200401210509.AAA08510@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I need a good picture of a Televideo 950 keyboard and a DEC VT-100 > keyboard. I checked around for the 950, any of the few I can find > the keys are not readable. The 950, well, I don't have that. But I have two tvi925 keyboards, and back when I worked with both, I never could tell them apart without checking the label in the upper right corner, so the key layout is very similar (identical, I think). The keyboard is slightly too large to fit my scanner. So I scanned it twice, with much overlap between the images. The resulting scans were rather dark, so I stretched the contrast; the results are up for ftp in the directory ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/misc/ under the names tvi925kbd.pgm.1 and tvi925kbd.pgm.2 for PGM files; change pgm to jpg for jpeg versions. For size reference, those scans are 75 pixels to the inch. Not perfect, but certainly good enough to extract a keybaord layout from. The VT-100 I can't help with. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Jan 20 23:25:16 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? In-Reply-To: <400E059B.5090303@carnagevisors.net> References: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> <29b8a3734c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <400E059B.5090303@carnagevisors.net> Message-ID: <32390175-4BD2-11D8-B17A-000A957FD620@kerberos.davies.net.au> On 21 Jan 2004, at 15:52, Benjamin Gardiner wrote: >> > hmm we are going to be getting Tech TV soon on FOXTEL (australian pay > tv) they are just doing the move over to digital.. Well, they've made the announcement, let's wait to see when we can actually subscribe to the new digital service and how it's going to be delivered (cable, satellite, fibre?). The real reason for posting a followup is to ask if someone can confirm that this e-mail is in plain text please? I've just upgraded? from Evolution to mail.app on my OSX Laptop and I think I've set it up correctly :-). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 20 23:30:17 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Televideo 950 and DEC VT-100 keyboard photos wanted In-Reply-To: <200401210509.AAA08510@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <400DDD94.7090402@jcwren.com> <200401210509.AAA08510@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <400E0E69.1030204@jcwren.com> der Mouse wrote: >>I need a good picture of a Televideo 950 keyboard and a DEC VT-100 >>keyboard. I checked around for the 950, any of the few I can find >>the keys are not readable. >> >> > >The 950, well, I don't have that. But I have two tvi925 keyboards, and >back when I worked with both, I never could tell them apart without >checking the label in the upper right corner, so the key layout is very >similar (identical, I think). > >The keyboard is slightly too large to fit my scanner. So I scanned it >twice, with much overlap between the images. The resulting scans were >rather dark, so I stretched the contrast; the results are up for ftp in >the directory ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/misc/ under the names >tvi925kbd.pgm.1 and tvi925kbd.pgm.2 for PGM files; change pgm to jpg >for jpeg versions. For size reference, those scans are 75 pixels to >the inch. Not perfect, but certainly good enough to extract a keybaord >layout from. > >The VT-100 I can't help with. > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > Perfect! Thank you very much. I always forget about using a scanner for things like this. It works remarkably well, and even has a reasonable sharpness out to a couple of inches. My scanner spends most of it's time in the closet, since I don't really have the desk space to leave it out. One of the few downsides to living on a boat is lack of space. http://tinymicros.com/gallery/boat/office2 is when I really don't have space. --jc From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 20 23:37:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401210540.AAA08691@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Okay, I'm confused. I wrote (of vacuum tube computers being, in principle, faster than transistor) >> How so? Are flight times between cathode and anode shorter than >> transit times between emitter and collector? Or is there some other >> effect going on that I've missed? Then William Donzelli replied > That is basically it - flying electrons don't have other junk to bump > into, like they do in solid state. This (and the original note) implies that tubes are inherently faster in this way. But then... > This transit time problem pretty much killed standard tubes in the > microwave region - to get the things to work properly, the > cathode-grid-plate spacing had to be extremely small. ...this sounds as though it's the converse; this sounds as though tube transit times are inconveniently _high_. So I don't get it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 21 00:04:57 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401210540.AAA08691@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > ...this sounds as though it's the converse; this sounds as though tube > transit times are inconveniently _high_. > > So I don't get it. In theory, computing tubes would not use much power at all, so one could space the cathode-grid-plate structure very close, and get the super speeds due to the very short distances involved. Imagine tubes as small today's transistors - the speeds would be fantastic, as the electrons would speed right thru the micron of vacuum much faster that a micron of silicon. However, the real world hits the tubes far before element spacing gets this tiny. The breakdown voltage between the cathode and plate probably hits first - too close, and the electrons will simply jump over on their own, like a spark. Likewise, with very short distances, capacitance will become a big issue. The best conventional tubes top out somewhere around 4 GHz, and these were only good for small amounts of power. They were a bastard to build, as well. So, in a perfect world, with no capacitance or power problems, tubes would be great. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Wed Jan 21 00:07:28 2004 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:40 2005 Subject: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? In-Reply-To: <32390175-4BD2-11D8-B17A-000A957FD620@kerberos.davies.net.au> References: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com> <29b8a3734c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <400E059B.5090303@carnagevisors.net> <32390175-4BD2-11D8-B17A-000A957FD620@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <400E1720.8080006@carnagevisors.net> Huw Davies wrote: > > Well, they've made the announcement, let's wait to see when we can > actually subscribe to the new digital service and how it's going to be > delivered (cable, satellite, fibre?). > > The real reason for posting a followup is to ask if someone can confirm > that this e-mail is in plain text please? I've just upgraded? from > Evolution to mail.app on my OSX Laptop and I think I've set it up > correctly :-). > Well they have hasid the roll out will be over the next 2.5 years, the sat subscribers are already on digital, but may need a new set top box, and I do know that the digital will be over the existing cable network not the analogue system they currently use. and yes this email was in plain text. Benjamin From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jan 20 23:40:39 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation Message-ID: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> While digging out the keyboard to scan (see my recent message about that), I noticed that I had a rather old book that perhaps some here might be interested in information from. It's an RCA reference book from 1963, and it contains a lot of data on various types of vacuum tubes and semiconductor devices of the day, from vacuum tubes still in use today like the 6L6 I think I saw mentioned recently to picture tubes (even a few colour types) to tube types I've never heard of like "nuvistor" and "novar". There are a number of cross-reference tables of various things, indexed by various useful things. There is a pile of somewhat similar information about semiconductor devices (though a good deal less in terms of pages in the book) and a number of pages on batteries. There are then several pages of ads for devices like multimeters and oscilloscopes and signal generators, ending with a calendar for 1963 and a few pages of address-book. There are a few mildly interesting one-page things, like one giving a number of RCA sales offices, complete with phone numbers like "WHitehall 4-2900". I would take a good deal of persuading to part with the book itself. But if anyone is interested in data from it, including scans of various portions, drop me a line. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 21 00:54:54 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation In-Reply-To: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040121065016.GG306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe der Mouse, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 12:40:39AM -0500: > While digging out the keyboard to scan (see my recent message about > that), I noticed that I had a rather old book that perhaps some here > might be interested in information from. > It's an RCA reference book from 1963, and it contains a lot of data on > various types of vacuum tubes and semiconductor devices of the day, Sounds like an RCA receiving tube manual with some solid-state additions tossed in, etc. A little newer than the RC-19. > from vacuum tubes still in use today like the 6L6 I think I saw > mentioned recently to picture tubes (even a few colour types) to tube > types I've never heard of like "nuvistor" and "novar". There are a Well, it's good that you found this, so now you'll know what they are. > one giving a number of RCA sales offices, complete with phone numbers > like "WHitehall 4-2900". Telephone numbers like mine used to start out as RIdgeway 4. :-) Now, they've made it mandatory to dial the area code before the number for local calls, and some people don't even include dashes (or anything else!) between the numbers for readability. > I would take a good deal of persuading to part with the book itself. > But if anyone is interested in data from it, including scans of various > portions, drop me a line. Yes, still worth holding onto. Thanks. If you really want to see a comprehensive RCA tube manual, check out the ten volume, (nearly) 7,000 page, RCA HB-3 which includes everything from ingitrons to transmitting tubes. :-) It's presently available on CD for about US$80 from Antique Electronic Supply. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 00:55:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Foothill College ham swap on TV Message-ID: I'm watching this program called Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel where they examine various contemporary myths or urban legends and either debunk or confirm them. The first was various myths about microwave ovens. They actually perform the various myths (putting in a spoon, fork, aluminum/aluminium foil) on camera in a sort of scientific way. The second myth is Lucille Ball recounting how the fillings in her teeth caused her to pick up radio signals from a local radio studio. So to test this, they needed to build a radio transmitter. They showed the team heading over to Foothill College (local Silicon Valley college) for the famous 2nd Saturday of the month ham swap. They even described it as "legendary" (it is). They showed various scenes of scrounging and some of the nerds there and one was even someone I know(!) (It was Barry Tuttleman for you locals) Kinda cool. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Jan 21 00:57:22 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation In-Reply-To: <20040121065016.GG306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040121065016.GG306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200401210705.CAA08977@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> from vacuum tubes still in use today like the 6L6 I think I saw >> mentioned recently to picture tubes (even a few colour types) to >> tube types I've never heard of like "nuvistor" and "novar". > Well, it's good that you found this, so now you'll know what they > are. Well, not really. There were some cutaway drawings of nuvistors; as near as I can figure, they're just ordinary vacuum tubes except made with metal rather than glass shells, and with somewhat more mechanically sturdy element mountings. Novars I still don't know anything significant about besides the numbers in the table. > If you really want to see a comprehensive RCA tube manual, check out > the ten volume, (nearly) 7,000 page, RCA HB-3 which includes > everything from ingitrons to transmitting tubes. :-) It's presently > available on CD for about US$80 from Antique Electronic Supply. One of the products advertised in the book I have is a five-binder set which "contains over 5000 pages of loose-leaf data and curves on RCA receiving tubes, ...". Price "$20.00 including service for first year", but without specifying what "service" is included. And it's called the HB-3. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jan 21 01:16:54 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Switch specs for Compupro/Godbout Econoram XIII In-Reply-To: <200401192201.OAA17922@clulw009.amd.com> (Dwight K. Elvey's message of "Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:01:00 -0800 (PST)") References: <200401192201.OAA17922@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200401210716.i0L7Gs7K003996@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Anyone have the switch specs for this board? XIII or XIIIA? In either case, yes. XIII is two Banks of 16Kx8 each, called Bank A and Bank B, and can be configured to place each Bank at any 16KB boundary in the 64KB address space. It has four groups of 8 DIP switches, S1 through S4. S1 sets the I/O port address for Bank A. Output a 0 to this port, the bank is disabled. Output a 1, the bank is enabled. You can read it too; 0 means disabled and 1 means enabled. S1-1 sets address bit 0, S1-2 sets address bit 1, ... S1-8 sets address bit 7. On = 1, Off = 0. S2 sets the I/O port address for Bank B. Same scheme. S3 positions 1-4 are not used. S3 positions 5 and 6 set whether to enable or disable Bank B on power-up: set S3-5 to 1 and S3-6 to 0 to disable Bank B, or set S3-5 to 0 and S3-6 to 1 to enable Bank B. S3 positions 7 and 8 work like 5 and 6, but for Bank A. S4 positions 1-3 and 7 control Bank A. S4-1, if on, disables Bank A entirely. S4-2 and -3 set the address bus line 14 and 15 values to match for Bank A (on is 0 and off is 1). And S4-7, if on, enables PHANTOM on Bank A. S4 positions 4-6 and 8 control Bank B in much the same ways. XIIIA is a single 32Kx8 block that can be located at any 4KB boundary. It has four groups of 8 DIP switches, S1 through S4. S2 positions 1 and 2 are used to enable or disable the board at power-up. Set S2-1 on and S2-2 off to enable the board at power-up, or S2-1 off and S2-2 on to disable the board at power-up. S2 position 3 controls how the board responds to PHANTOM*. S2-3 set on will make the board disable itself in response to PHANTOM*. S2 position 4 grounds MWRITE (bus pin 68) and makes the board respond to pWR* (bus pin 77). S2 positions 5-8 set the starting address at which the board appears in the 64KB address space. S2-5 sets the value to match for address line 15, S2-6 for line 14, ..., S2-8 for line 12. S1 lets you disable 4K blocks within the 32K block. S1-1 for block 7, S1-2 for block 6, ..., S1-8 for block 0. Off is enabled, on is disabled. S4 sets the I/O port address for the board. S4-1 is address bit 7, ..., S4-8 is address bit 0. Off is 0, on is 1. S3 sets the data bits in the I/O port to which the board responds. S3-1 is bit 7, ..., S3-8 is bit 0. Off is 0, on is 1. Those bits switched on must all be set to 0 by the output operation to disable the board. Any of the bits switched on may be set to 1 to enable the board. -Frank McConnell From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 21 01:27:31 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? References: <400BF92C.2090001@atarimuseum.com><29b8a3734c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <400E059B.5090303@carnagevisors.net> Message-ID: <002b01c3dff0$080905e0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> count us in for a dvd save of this for the archives here see address below... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Gardiner" To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:52 PM Subject: Re: Anyone see TechTV Screensavers - Homebrew Computer Club??? > Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > > Can someone MPEG or DivX the show? If it's less than 200MB, I can provide the > > hosting :) > > Incidentally, I did contact Sky (the UK satellite TV co., aka BskyB) not long > > ago regarding TechTV. Their response consisted of two words - "No" and > > "chance". *sigh*. > > > > Later. > hmm we are going to be getting Tech TV soon on FOXTEL (australian pay > tv) they are just doing the move over to digital.. > > And am realy looking forward to the Screensavers show. > > Benjamin > > From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 21 01:37:45 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: In Memoriam...James M. Early Message-ID: <004401c3dff1$76509210$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> see more at the home page www.smecc.org In Memoriam...James M. Early Jim was a friend of the museum and a mentor to me during the formation of it back in the days it occupied some shared space with Computer Exchange Inc. in the old industrial part on Desert Cove in Phoenix Arizona. Jim wrote several articles and spent extensive time editing on Volume #2 and #3 of "VINTAGE ELECTRICS. His background at Bell Laboratories proved invaluable when we cataloged some of the more obscure artifacts in the K. D. Smith Collection. K. D. Was his first supervisor at Bell Laboratories. His words always possessed wisdom and humor, Jim we will miss hearing you... -Ed Sharpe, Archivist for SMECC Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 21 01:40:11 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: the museum was just given a nice IBM PC that is a luggable need ads and info! Message-ID: <005301c3dff1$cd0a1bd0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> the museum was just given a nice IBM PC that is a luggable... sort of like a compact! have not seen many of these... are they scarce? would like to find any advertising material or manuals etc that would complement it in the IBM display... had not really planned on having each and every model on display but this is kinda cute... let us know if you have any related or scans of related stuff! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From erich at langrafix.net Tue Jan 20 20:12:20 2004 From: erich at langrafix.net (LANgrafix inc!) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: "ON-TV"...... Message-ID: Dear Dan Veeneman, Do you have any old "ONTV" boxes (descramblers/receivers) that you'd like to sell -- I'm a young collector of odd media from my youth and I'd really love to get a hold of one of these things to put on top of my TV. Thanks in advance! Eric www.langrafix.com 773.486.9673 I found you here from an "ONTV" search on google: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-June/002738.html From esharpe at cox.net Wed Jan 21 01:34:34 2004 From: esharpe at cox.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: wow! just got a IBM PC Luggable! More info?! Message-ID: <003b01c3dff1$04038dc0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> the museum was just given a nice IBM PC that is a luggable... sort of like a compact! have not seen many of these... are they scarce? would like to find any advertising material or manuals etc that would complement it in the IBM display... had not really planned on having each and every model on display but this is kinda cute... let us know if you have any related or scans of related stuff! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 17:07:12 2004 From: john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Replacement for HP 9122C - any comments? Message-ID: Hi, The 9122C was made by HP as a HP-IB floppy drive using the SS-80 protocol (AFAIK). (I have a 9122D which I think has the same specs running on my HP-85 / HP-87 set-up using the EMS ROM). Anyway, I came across the following on Google: http://www.isa-j.co.jp/NEW/english/HP-IB/p_hpib_b.html Company claims to be making a compatible drive, but the rest of the site is in Chinese writing so I couldn't find a price. Has anyone come across this drive, or know of any other compatible drives? It's not that the 9122 series is that rare, but a modern equivalent (especially one with a 1G hard drive!) certainly is an attractive option for those still using Series 80 and other HP-IB machines 'for real' rather than tinkering with them like me. Regards, John (UK) From Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com Tue Jan 20 18:03:34 2004 From: Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com (Steven_R_Hutchins@Raytheon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question Message-ID: The doc's are very useful. Thanks. I have checked the power supply,it's OK. The docs are for original MINC-11. I have one with different CPU and memory ( dual Qbus cards ). Do you know where to find docs on KDF11-A (M8106)and MSV11-MB (M7506)? Tomorrow I should start looking for clock activity on some of the cards. I see a used KDF11-A at DCP in Melbourne, FL. for $66....if I go for the shotgun method of troubleshooting.;-((( >The engr drawings for the MINC are up now at >www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP00652_MNC11engrDrw_1978.pdf Hutch From Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com Tue Jan 20 18:08:56 2004 From: Steven_R_Hutchins at Raytheon.com (Steven_R_Hutchins@Raytheon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: DEC MINC-11 question Message-ID: It looks like docs are for a MINC -11 to me , ....Docs match what I have. JP Hindin om> cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: Subject: Re: DEC MINC-11 question cctech-bounces@cla ssiccmp.org 01/19/2004 07:26 PM Please respond to "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > The engr drawings for the MINC are up now at > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP00652_MNC11engrDrw_1978.pdf They are? Sure looks like a 404 to me. -JP From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 21 02:03:02 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Cromemco SCC Eproms In-Reply-To: Joe Abbott "Cromemco SCC Eproms" (Jan 20, 14:23) References: <20040120222306.73700.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10401210803.ZM11488@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 20, 14:23, Joe Abbott wrote: > Does anyone have images of Rom 0 and Rom 1 for > Cromemco SCC S100 single board Z80 computer? My > manual states first half of Rom 0 contains monitor > progrom and remaining Rom 0 and Rom 1 contain 3k Basic > Interpreter. Source code or hex listing would be OK > too. I believe Eproms were part no. MCB-416 and they > are 2716s. I have a Cromemco SCC, but I'm afraid mine only has the first EPROM (yes, it's an NEC 2716). I can dump the data from that. It seems I also want the second half. Anyone else got it? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 02:42:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121011250.GB306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 20 Jan 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 03:55:27PM -0500: > > And no one has had the utter madness to suggest a replica of the Mark I > > or II relay machine..... or the SSEC.... or any of the Bell System relay > > computers.... > > Relays don't normally glow, alas, but they do make nice sounds. > > My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of > electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. I made a rudimentary one today. I took two half glasses of water. I needed to compute something analogous to 1 + 1, so I poured one glass into the other and it worked! (It also turns out that whether the glass is half full or half empty, if you combine them together then one is full and one is empty...there's some sort of philosophical riff there). I then kept pouring the water back and forth between each other: a FlipFlop! How's that? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 02:44:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121020422.GD306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 20 Jan 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Rob O'Donnell, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 01:51:45AM +0000: > > >My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of > > >electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. > > > > Even sillier... > > That was not a "silly" idea; it was a serious idea, and I don't see why > it isn't possible. It could have some very practical applications. It's been done before. An example (THE example?) sits in the main science museum in England (I forgot what it's called). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 02:58:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On 20 Jan 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Quothe Rob O'Donnell, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 01:51:45AM +0000: > > > >My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of > > > >electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. > > > > > > Even sillier... > > > > That was not a "silly" idea; it was a serious idea, and I don't see why > > it isn't possible. It could have some very practical applications. > > It's been done before. An example (THE example?) sits in the main science > museum in England (I forgot what it's called). BTW, it was a computer that modeled a nation's economy using water as the analog for money. VERY cool. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 21 03:34:35 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: ot: adf scanners Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040121091703.03c8fea8@albert> A bit ago there was some chat about ADF scanners, and cheap sources. Just spotted a raft of second user HP ADF scanners at one of my occasional suppliers. At prices from ?35 (+ Carriage + VAT, min order ?70 so you could get a couple of PCs to go with it..) they seem fairly reasonable. I've had good experiences with their after sales service too. They mostly do ex-corporate stuff, so have lots of older PeeCee and similar server kit available should you want anything along that line. http://161.58.154.50/cgi-bin/osa/ViewPage.cgi?templateName=category.htx&categoryScheme=FIX&categoryTime=cur&categoryCode=105 (or if that's too long, www.concordeuk.com click "online auction" then "online store") no affiliation, just a customer. Rob From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Jan 21 03:31:07 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:04:57 EST." Message-ID: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, William Donzelli said: > > ...this sounds as though it's the converse; this sounds as though tube > > transit times are inconveniently _high_. > > > > So I don't get it. > > In theory, computing tubes would not use much power at all, so one could > space the cathode-grid-plate structure very close, and get the super > speeds due to the very short distances involved. Imagine tubes as small > today's transistors - the speeds would be fantastic, as the electrons > would speed right thru the micron of vacuum much faster that a micron of > silicon. > > However, the real world hits the tubes far before element spacing gets > this tiny. The breakdown voltage between the cathode and plate probably > hits first - too close, and the electrons will simply jump over on their > own, like a spark. Likewise, with very short distances, capacitance will > become a big issue. The best conventional tubes top out somewhere around 4 > GHz, and these were only good for small amounts of power. They were a > bastard to build, as well. > > So, in a perfect world, with no capacitance or power problems, tubes > would be great. See http://www.triodeel.com/area51.htm - if it still works. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Jan 21 04:18:17 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation References: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><20040121065016.GG306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200401210705.CAA08977@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <04d401c3e007$e31d7fa0$6800a8c0@athlon> HB-3 was supplied on a subscription basis- you paid up front for as many pages/binders as it had at that point in time and your sub paid for all the additional pages that were published that year. Next year, you paid another sub to keep getitng the updates. And so on. So the annual service charge was the subscription fee. The updates included additional pages and details of pages to be removed-data on tubes that were obsolete etc. Plus details on getttting extra binders etc. as they were needed. So HB-3 in it's final form didn't have all the data ever published on RCA tubes included-just what was deemed to be worth keeping in the 'system' at that point. But if you were real cunning- you never pulled any of the pages out once you started subscribing - your binders were full to overflowing and hard to manage, but all the data was still in there from the date you started your subscription. I have a couple of HB-3s here. They cover different subscription periods so I have to go thru and rationalise all the data at some stage- (round tuit territory) - meantime if it's not in one set it's often in the other! Worth noting that nuvistors are only about 15mm high-very small, and novars are a class of largish nine pin glass seal types- as used in the line output stage of the last of the tube based TV sets, etc. Dave B Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation > >> from vacuum tubes still in use today like the 6L6 I think I saw > >> mentioned recently to picture tubes (even a few colour types) to > >> tube types I've never heard of like "nuvistor" and "novar". > > Well, it's good that you found this, so now you'll know what they > > are. > > Well, not really. There were some cutaway drawings of nuvistors; as > near as I can figure, they're just ordinary vacuum tubes except made > with metal rather than glass shells, and with somewhat more > mechanically sturdy element mountings. Novars I still don't know > anything significant about besides the numbers in the table. > > > If you really want to see a comprehensive RCA tube manual, check out > > the ten volume, (nearly) 7,000 page, RCA HB-3 which includes > > everything from ingitrons to transmitting tubes. :-) It's presently > > available on CD for about US$80 from Antique Electronic Supply. > > One of the products advertised in the book I have is a five-binder set > which "contains over 5000 pages of loose-leaf data and curves on RCA > receiving tubes, ...". Price "$20.00 including service for first > year", but without specifying what "service" is included. > > And it's called the HB-3. :-) > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Wed Jan 21 02:52:09 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca>; from bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca on Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:44:52PM -0700 References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040121095209.A24993@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:44:52PM -0700, ben franchuk wrote: > Holger Veit wrote: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Tssss. Not to discourage you, but a TTL computer with bazillions of ICs > > is not really suited for newbies, although there is plenty to learn - > > namely on those nasty aspects like circuit timing, delays, glitches, > > noise on power and signal lines. TTL is to a large degree analog, not digital, > > circuit development ;-) > > So are TUBE computers better? The effects occur if you run the system at "high" speed - the definition of "high" depends on the quality of construction. Wire-Wrap and breadbaords are susceptible to cross-talk - wire lengths are a factor unless you run almost static (the mentioned breadboard with a 2901 controlled by switches, debounced with RS-Nand-FFs, is such a case. Tube computers are larger and thus effectively run at by far lower speeds, but they are likewise analog technology as discrete flip-flops and RTL logic. > > You might not directly want to start with a monster like Computer 74 or > > EGO, but perhaps with a simple ALU/register device: get a 2901 circuit > > from BG-Micro and play a bit with it (a breadboard with lots of switches > > and LEDs is sufficient). And then extend it with a 2909/-10/-11 from the same > > source and build the micro control for that toy. This is already the > > basic step towards an own homegrown system. > > Using LS TTL ( also from BG-MICRO ) I expect I'll need about 32 chips > for a 12 bit ALU and 32 chips for basic control. I suspect about the And this can be had with just three 2901. Surely you could go the hard way and assemble the ALU out of three 74181, some 74175s for the accu register, and some glue logic as I did as well 20 years or more ago. Besides more power consumption, more points of failure and larger boards you don't gain very much. > same for front panel logic. Since I don't have a PROM or PAL burner > a bit slice design out of the question for me. You don't need any PROM or PAL burner. You might put your microcode into a fast cache RAM (from old PCs) and have some small serial shift register logic to load it from a PC parallel port (a similar circuit BTW also allows to program EEPROMs and flash ROMs from the parallel port). You would not use PALs, but CPLDs which are bit serial programmable through a JTAG port - provided you accept the use of modern circuits to replace TTL graveyards. The first microcode I built for such a homegrown CPU I did with a diode matrix after finding out that the 74S188 PROMs that were available those days were too expensive for bug fixing (they could BTW also be programmed manually with a simple socket and a number of switches). Holger From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Wed Jan 21 05:27:56 2004 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> <5.1.1.6.0.20040121014815.042c9278@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <400E623C.67983A0B@cs.ubc.ca> Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > Even sillier... > I'd like to see someone build a replica of HEX, from the Terry Pratchet > Discworld books - from the descriptions, it's digital computer that > operates via ants running around tubes.. (I guess, get them a fine enough > bore so that the ants couldn't turn around, you could get it to work...) > > Rob. Don't forget the computer built from tinker-toy parts (wooden hubs and dowels) at some university in, IIRC, the early eighties... From wmaddox at pacbell.net Wed Jan 21 06:38:45 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon><400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> <20040120154516.GQ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <006201c3e01b$83118c50$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> > > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) > > Oh really? :-) When was the last time that you saw someone pop open a > tube and replace or repair an open filament, repair a short between > elements or restore the vacuum in a gassy tube, etc., and then put the > tube back into use? I make no claims about the practicality of doing this for the small tubes used in computers, but it used to be common to rebuild CRTs for TVs. The setup for doing it was suitable for a small shop -- I recall TV service oriented magazines containing ads for equipment to get into the rebuilding business. I believe the point was to salvage the expensive glass bottle, replacingthe entire electron gun. You removed the end of the neck, and "welded" on a new one, then pumped the tube back down and sealed it off. --Bill From cheri-post at web.de Wed Jan 21 06:50:48 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Fujitsu M2294p drives & interfaces Message-ID: <200401211250.i0LCoiQ02414@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Hi guys, on ebay Germany, a Fujitsu M2294p drive is being sold. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3268253232&category=42794&rd=1 The thing is that I can't figure out what interface it has. E stands for ESDI S(A) for SCSI B for SCSI-4000 ...but what interface describes the "p" at the end of the model description ? By the way, a Fujitsu M2235B found his way into my collection. Somewhere in the Internet it says that B stands for SCSI-4000, but what is SCSI-4000 exactly ? Any kind of industrial SCSI-interface ? I've never seen one before. Thanks in advance for your hints. Pierre ______________________________________________________________________________ Erdbeben im Iran: Zehntausende Kinder brauchen Hilfe. UNICEF hilft den Kindern - helfen Sie mit! https://www.unicef.de/spe/spe_03.php From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Jan 21 05:16:40 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <400DF054.5080102@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <400DF054.5080102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1074683255.5641.1.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 03:21, ben franchuk wrote: > > Vintage TUBE stuff is the latest fad of PRO-AUDIO, so that stuff is all > dried up. You can't even get tubes from the 1940's for example: New Old > Stock 6SN7 $39 ... New sov-tech 6SN7 $9. > Ben. The problem with NOS is that the glass is slightly porous and the valves will have gone a bit soft by now. Why would you pay four times as much for a valve that will be below standard when you get it, when you can have a brand new valve, build to a higher standard than the original? Gordon. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Jan 21 06:52:52 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <006201c3e01b$83118c50$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon><400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> <20040120154516.GQ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <006201c3e01b$83118c50$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <1074689032.5641.7.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 12:38, William Maddox wrote: > > > But with TUBE computers you just fix the broken part.:) > > > > Oh really? :-) When was the last time that you saw someone pop open a > > tube and replace or repair an open filament, repair a short between > > elements or restore the vacuum in a gassy tube, etc., and then put the > > tube back into use? > > I make no claims about the practicality of doing this for the small tubes > used in computers, but it used to be common to rebuild CRTs for TVs. > The setup for doing it was suitable for a small shop -- I recall TV service > oriented magazines containing ads for equipment to get into the rebuilding > business. I believe the point was to salvage the expensive glass bottle, > replacingthe entire electron gun. You removed the end of the neck, and > "welded" on a new one, then pumped the tube back down and sealed it > off. > > --Bill > I seem to recall that although rebuilt tubes were fairly inexpensive (at least in the late 1970s, early 1980s) the quality was rather variable. TV tubes these days last so long, and the sets are so inexpensive (read: cheap and nasty) that it's not really worth retubing conventional televisions. Projection TVs are a different matter... Gordon. From wmaddox at pacbell.net Wed Jan 21 07:04:37 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <006301c3e01f$1f764b00$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> I thought that some of the 8000-series parts were later assigned 74xxx numbers as that emerged as an industry-standard. There are several parts indicated as such in Lancaster's _TTL Cookbook_. Does anyone have a complete cross-reference for these? --Bill From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Jan 21 07:23:22 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: TE16 capstan roller is very sticky -- what to do? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0EC4@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Hi all, I saw on eBay an auction for one TE16 tape drive capstan wheel. I have two TE16's in my collection (www.pdp-11.nl) and when I moved them to my new museum (check "The making of ..." link), I noticed that one capstan is orange colored and has white mold stips on it, and the other capstan is black colored and is very sticky ... :-( I have read about went-goo capstans of the TU58 recently. Should I go for the auction? The problem is that this is a short term solution, and just for *one* of my tape drives. Is there an other option, preferably a better one to solve the capstan problems? tnx, - Henk, PA8PDP From mike at ambientdesign.com Wed Jan 21 07:36:09 2004 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Apple RGB monitor References: <200401210353.WAA28768@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <004901c3e023$88191c10$3d00a8c0@falco> Hi, It's worth noting that while the connectors are identical, a standard Mac monitor won't run on a IIgs, and vice versa. The scan rates are quite different. Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Apple RGB monitor > > I have an AppleColor RGB monitor taking up space. This is the 12" > > (or so) tube used with the IIgs, and connects to the machine with the > > Dmumble cable (I can't remember how many pins - might be 15). > > If it's like the IIci I have, and the monitor that goes with it, it's a > DB15 (or at least what's usually called a DB15; I can never keep the > "correct" second letters straight on those). > > > This worked last time I tried it out, about two months ago. Anyone > > need it (with the cable) for a big five bucks? Shipping from 10512. > > Ooh, man, I wish I could justify that to myself, but I just can't. > I've got two Apple monitors already, one working as of a day or two > back, the other working last I tried it and sitting untouched in a > corner since - and neither one used in regular operation, even when I > have the IIci turned on. From damosan at comcast.net Wed Jan 21 08:22:09 2004 From: damosan at comcast.net (damosan@comcast.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: ATR-8000 & other miscellania acquired today Message-ID: <012120041422.12661.14b6@comcast.net> > Much more difficult to use? Yea, that DIR command is *complicated*. You have to view it in the context of the standard Atari DOS commands of the time. CPM was loads more difficult than the standard Atari DOS command set -- if you could even call it a command set. :) --- Damo From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 21 08:04:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Televideo 950 and DEC VT-100 keyboard photos wanted In-Reply-To: <200401210509.AAA08510@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <400DDD94.7090402@jcwren.com> <400DDD94.7090402@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040121090440.00880a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just passed up a Televideo 950 terminal and keyboard yesterday. I can call and have them hold it for me if you still need a photo. Joe At 11:01 PM 1/20/04 -0500, you wrote: >> I need a good picture of a Televideo 950 keyboard and a DEC VT-100 >> keyboard. I checked around for the 950, any of the few I can find >> the keys are not readable. > >The 950, well, I don't have that. But I have two tvi925 keyboards, and >back when I worked with both, I never could tell them apart without >checking the label in the upper right corner, so the key layout is very >similar (identical, I think). > >The keyboard is slightly too large to fit my scanner. So I scanned it >twice, with much overlap between the images. The resulting scans were >rather dark, so I stretched the contrast; the results are up for ftp in >the directory ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/misc/ under the names >tvi925kbd.pgm.1 and tvi925kbd.pgm.2 for PGM files; change pgm to jpg >for jpeg versions. For size reference, those scans are 75 pixels to >the inch. Not perfect, but certainly good enough to extract a keybaord >layout from. > >The VT-100 I can't help with. > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 21 08:20:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? In-Reply-To: <200401202305.i0KN5ZY7012982@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040121092041.0088c3a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Wahoo! That's what I was hoping for. Now I just have to get one of my Unisites working. Thanks Al. Joe At 03:05 PM 1/20/04 -0800, you wrote: > >It's marked 701-2214-001. Does >anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? > >-- > >A Unisite > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 21 08:25:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? In-Reply-To: <200401201555400255.10A6E0FF@192.168.42.129> References: <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040121092519.0080b6d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bruce, The PAL next to the SIMM sockets is pn 324-1737-002. The one next to the corner is pn 324-1736-001. I will post a picture later if you still need it. Joe At 03:55 PM 1/20/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, Joe, > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 20-Jan-04 at 17:46 Joe R. wrote: > >>Found this today. It's about 6 1/2" x 7" and has 8 30 pin SIMM sockets >>and a 60 pin ribbon cable header on it. It's marked 701-2214-001. Does >>anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? > > The 60-pin header is a giveaway. That's either the 4MB or 8MB memory expander for the UniSite series (with the original controller board -- it won't work on the later production units). > > Take a close look at the label on the PAL. It should have a Data I/O part number on it. Tell me what that number is, and I can tell you which memory size it will accommodate. > > It'll use standard 1Mx9 PARITY SIMMs. You MUST use parity, and (in most cases) they must be the nine-chip type. Data I/O expander boards had trouble with the three-chip type SIMMs. > > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Jan 21 08:48:22 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Odd PDP-11 tape related question References: <006401c3da67$2948a820$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <001401c3e02d$9fbdebc0$2201a8c0@finans> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:25 AM Subject: Re: Odd PDP-11 tape related question > > > > This might be your problem.. even though the tape image is > > fine, the drive doesnt let you use arbitrary block sizes. > > > > This may or may not apply to your drive.. Nico might know > > more about this- I just ran into this when writing an ASPI > > layer for my software... I was unable to tell the DDS drive > > to switch to 64-byte blocks.. it insisted on 512-b blocks. > > > Correct. I cant remember ever having seen SCSI drives with block sizes > different from 512 bytes. > Despite my involvement in media conversion since 1986 or so, I have sold > only one TK drive, and that one is in Norway. The drive in question is a DLT2000 Nico From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jan 21 08:49:38 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2004 02:43:05 +0100." Message-ID: <200401211449.i0LEncE04744@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: >Hi all, > >The local scrap dealer has 4 11/34's available (two regular ones, >and two in Tektronix OEM mode, meaning, relabeled) which have a Where are these located? I assume it's California... -brad From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jan 21 09:06:14 2004 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040121150614.GA10349@uiuc.edu> Ultra Spec cables makes good adapters (I have several), but they're not cheap... http://www.ultraspec.com/ Joe R. said: > I have a SGI Indigo and Indigo II along with a pile of Sun stuff. I'm > wondering if I can replace all the funky monitors with one modern multisync > SVGA monitor. Anybody know of any reason that this won't work, or have any > recommendations about what kind of video adapter I need or where to get > one? (13W3 to SVGA). > > Joe - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) "Put on pants, Zoidberg!" - Dr. Zoidberg From wmaddox at pacbell.net Wed Jan 21 09:27:08 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Economical international freight Message-ID: <012901c3e033$08869ee0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> I have located several vintage minicomputers that I would like to add to my collection, being offered for a quite reasonable price. Unfortunately, they are currently located in the UK. Shipping for a CPU that I estimate weighs between 25 and 30kg via UPS or Federal Express works out to about US $250. If I go that route, I'll be paying 3/4 of the total cost of the deal on freight, for a one-week delivery time via air. Let's say that I'm perfectly happy to wait a month or two for the machines to arrive slowly on a boat. What options are available? I'd be interested in hearing anyone's experiences in getting large heavy items shipped overseas as economically as possible. Thanks, --Bill From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 21 09:31:39 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation In-Reply-To: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > I would take a good deal of persuading to part with the book itself. > But if anyone is interested in data from it, including scans of various > portions, drop me a line. I would not bother scanning any of it (although a kind offer, thanks). Tube information is not hard to get at all. A great deal is already on the net. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 21 09:34:39 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: > See http://www.triodeel.com/area51.htm - if it still works. About every three years, micro tubes are announced as a huge breakthough that will revolutionize the computer industry. I think we are due for another announcement. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Wed Jan 21 10:25:06 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Televideo 950 and DEC VT-100 keyboard photos wanted Message-ID: <040121112506.27013@splab.cas.neu.edu> I have a clean vt-100 terminal and keyboard. I can try to scan it, but you will have to live with the yellow numbers on the blank spot where an Id is found, and the VAR sticky label on it. Let me know if you don't find something else suitable joe heck From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 21 09:43:38 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <1074683255.5641.1.camel@pluto> Message-ID: > The problem with NOS is that the glass is slightly porous and the valves > will have gone a bit soft by now. This is basically false. Just like the old devices, some NOS tubes are awful (various Chinese brands). The same holds true for the oldies (Arcturus, Penn, Rad Tel, etc.). Good stuff is good stuff, crap is crap. This is why I really can't stand the tube audio world - there is too much junk science, snake oil, prejudice, and false rumors. Anything to make the rare old stock "sound" better. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 09:48:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Stan Barr wrote: > > So, in a perfect world, with no capacitance or power problems, tubes > > would be great. > > See http://www.triodeel.com/area51.htm - if it still works. Too bad all the links he refers to are dead. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 21 09:50:46 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040121094812.034f0ad8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hello, I have what I believe is a custom CRT. It has a 12" round face, is approximately 20" long, and uses electrostatic deflection. It was manufactured by Thomas Electronics Inc. in Wayne NJ and is hand marked as model number 12E35P31, 12-2-78. I am hoping to put this CRT into service and need to come up with a set of specifications which will likely work with it. What other physical information do I need to take from the CRT in order to help determine the specifications? Any suggestions for creating the power supply and deflection drive electronics are welcome. Thanks! --tom From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 09:54:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Fujitsu M2294p drives & interfaces In-Reply-To: <200401211250.i0LCoiQ02414@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Hi guys, > > on ebay Germany, a Fujitsu M2294p drive is being sold. > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3268253232&category=42794&rd=1 > > The thing is that I can't figure out what interface it has. > > E stands for ESDI > S(A) for SCSI > B for SCSI-4000 > > ...but what interface describes the "p" at the end of the model description ? Parallel port :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 21 10:05:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Economical international freight In-Reply-To: <012901c3e033$08869ee0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Maddox > Sent: 21 January 2004 15:27 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Economical international freight > > machines to arrive slowly on > a boat. What options are available? I'd be interested in > hearing anyone's > experiences in getting large > heavy items shipped overseas as economically as possible. All questions can be answered using the Royal Mail's postal calculator, which gives you total costs for several delivery options based on weight in kilos. The URL I use is http://sg.royalmail.com/servlet/acedispatcher?funcId=100&AceApplication=cons ignia&pageId=frameset but it can also be found at the bottom of the 'postal prices' page at www.royalmail.com. Ah, no it can't, they've redesigned their website so it doesn't work in either Firebird or IE 5.5. Bless 'em. I haven't found a cheaper way of sending stuff overseas - they're cheaper than any other carrier. Just make sure whatever you're sending is very well packed! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jan 21 10:06:49 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: Televideo 950 and DEC VT-100 keyboard photos wanted In-Reply-To: <040121112506.27013@splab.cas.neu.edu> References: <040121112506.27013@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <400EA399.6020904@jcwren.com> TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: >I have a clean vt-100 terminal and keyboard. I can try to scan it, but >you will have to live with the yellow numbers on the blank spot where >an Id is found, and the VAR sticky label on it. Let me know if you >don't find something else suitable > >joe heck > > Joe, that'd do just fine. As long as the scan is readable, that would serve my purposes. --jc From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jan 21 10:56:26 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? Message-ID: <200401211656.i0LGuQV05955@mwave.heeltoe.com> The end of the power cord is snipped off this 11/34a I have in front of me... It has a blue wire, a brown wire and a green striped wire. I'm assuming the green striped is ground. Brown hot and blue neutral? (I think this is a standard, but I shy away from voltages above 48vdc :-) -brad From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Jan 21 11:07:49 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:41 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? In-Reply-To: <200401211656.i0LGuQV05955@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401211656.i0LGuQV05955@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200401211207.49356.pat@computer-refuge.org> Brad Parker declared on Wednesday 21 January 2004 11:56 am: > The end of the power cord is snipped off this 11/34a I have in front > of me... > > It has a blue wire, a brown wire and a green striped wire. > > I'm assuming the green striped is ground. Brown hot and blue > neutral? > > (I think this is a standard, but I shy away from voltages above 48vdc > :-) > > -brad Yeah, that's right. Not sure about the 11/34, but especially on things designed to be dual voltage, you can swap the blue/brown wires 'round and it'll work ok. Just gotta be careful if the neutral wire is used a s ground lead... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 21 11:09:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing Message-ID: <200401211709.JAA19216@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "R. D. Davis" > >Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 03:55:27PM -0500: >> And no one has had the utter madness to suggest a replica of the Mark I >> or II relay machine..... or the SSEC.... or any of the Bell System relay >> computers.... > >Relays don't normally glow, alas, but they do make nice sounds. > >My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of >electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. > Hi Actually I've given quite a bit a thought about making a computer that uses marbles instead of electricity or water. You'd put a bucket of marbles at the top and turn the crank. Gravity would bring the mrbles to the bottom where one could scoop them up and recycle. Dwight From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 21 11:27:30 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <400DF054.5080102@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <400DF054.5080102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040121172256.GH306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 08:21:56PM -0700: > Vintage TUBE stuff is the latest fad of PRO-AUDIO, so that stuff is all > dried up. You can't even get tubes from the 1940's for example: New Old > Stock 6SN7 $39 ... New sov-tech 6SN7 $9. > Ben. Whoa! Don't confuse those involved in pro-audio (e.g., those who work with recording, live sound reinforcement, etc.) with the golden-eared audiophiles (typically hobbyists who don't know a balanced line from a dBu, but who will pay small fortunes for audiophile grade cables). In some cases, some people are involved in both. However, for the most part, there exists a big difference. Some of those golden-eared audiophiles are even paying unreasonably large sums of money for hi-fi and guitar amplifiers with brand-names such as Eico and Silvertone, which some hucksters are actually promoting as being so-called "high-end" products. Well, we all know what P.T. Barnum said... -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 21 11:23:22 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <20040121150614.GA10349@uiuc.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.20040119201311.00820cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040121150614.GA10349@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <83A490FB-4C36-11D8-B3D1-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 21, 2004, at 9:06 AM, Dan Wright wrote: > Ultra Spec cables makes good adapters (I have several), but they're not > cheap... > > http://www.ultraspec.com/ Bah. Get on ePay and buy one of the $10 "SGI/Sun" 13W3/HD15 adapters, and pull pin 10 on the 13W3 side. That's the rightmost small pin in the top row if you're looking at it like this: (O O \\\\\ O) In case Mail.app is actually sending in fixed-width today: __ __ __ / \ / \ o o o o x / \ | | | | | | \ __ / \ __ / o o o o o \ __ / The Sun Composite-Sync signal and the SGI Composite-Sync signal aren't on the same pin, and most CS-capable monitors do it the Sun way. Pulling pin 10 disables CS from the SGI adapter and forces everything to SOG. I can verify this on Indy, Octane, Indigo2 Extreme and Impact, and IIRC, Indigo R3k models. Or, if your tube has BNC connectors, you can dig out your old 13W3/BNC cable, and attach only the RGB leads. Doc From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 21 11:33:51 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Switch specs for Compupro/Godbout Econoram XIII Message-ID: <200401211733.JAA19237@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Frank Good to here from you. It sounds like I have a XIIIA even though the silk screen doesn't say so, the switch configuration matches. I'll see if this brings the boards to life. Dwight >From: "Frank McConnell" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Anyone have the switch specs for this board? > >XIII or XIIIA? In either case, yes. > ---snip--- From ken at seefried.com Wed Jan 21 11:36:27 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Fujitsu M2294p drives & interfaces In-Reply-To: <200401211720.i0LHKOiZ075933@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401211720.i0LHKOiZ075933@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040121173627.29294.qmail@mail.seefried.com> From: "Pierre Gebhardt" >...but what interface describes the "p" at the end of the model >description ? IPI? Lack of doco on the net makes me think it might be some sort of custom OEM interface, however. >Somewhere in the Internet it says that B stands for SCSI-4000, but what >is SCSI-4000 exactly ? Longshot: Perhaps that refers to the Adaptec ACB-4000 interface in some way. It's an proto-SCSI to MFM adapter. Ken From cswiger at widomaker.com Wed Jan 21 11:57:53 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (Chuck Swiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Looking for a parallel keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20040121124458.01ba5fb0@wilma.widomaker.com> Tony and the gang - I just spotted this thread: >> Does this mean there might be a small market for a PS/2 to parallel >> keyboard converter? I can envision two modes, output only, where ASCII >That was my first thought -- a PC keyboard + a microcontroller. Shouldn't >be too hard to write the firmware.... >Of course, not being the business type, I would probably have GPLed it, >not tried to sell it ;-) >-tony fwiw I did that a few years ago, using an 87C750 (almost a classic itself by now) and a hacked up version of Phillips AN434 "Connecting a PC keyboard to the I2C bus". Photos here http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/dscn1468s.jpg http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/dscn1472s.jpg it works for me. In the blurry photo, the leftmost bit is the keypress strobe, goes off when a key is pressed; and a c/r was hit before the photo. If someone needs one I can (maybe) burn an OTP chip but you'll have to build the circuit. Modified firmware free. Has shift, lock and ctrl, etc. --Chuck From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 21 12:16:33 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: References: <1074683255.5641.1.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <20040121181159.GI306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 10:43:38AM -0500: > This is why I really can't stand the tube audio world - there is too much > junk science, snake oil, prejudice, and false rumors. Anything to make the > rare old stock "sound" better. Something tells me that when Western Electric resumes the manufacture of the 300B (perhaps some time this year), there will be people eager to pay much higher prices for NOS 300B tubes because they will believe them to sound better, more "musical", "sweeter", "less nasal" or whatever other ridiculous term they might come up with for how they believe the tubes to sound. Now then, just imagine how one could market a tube-based computer to those computer aficionados who share certain traits with the golden-eared audiophiles. Perhaps even the addition of a tube-based keyboard interface of some sort, for PeeCees, would demand high prices for its ability to make the characters enter the computer in a more "flowing" and "ethereal" way. (ROFL!) Perhaps even using tubes as analog components in network interfaces, to improve the sound of digital audio, to make it sound "less harsh" would be an idea that certain people would drool over. Perhaps one could also sell them replacement gold-plated sockets and anode connectors for the picture tubes in their monitors... any investors out there who want to invest in some of my ideas? I've got even more related ideas, so, don't delay, $$$s are being lost by the second! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 21 13:14:30 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: neat 20 year birthday of the mac page! http://www.digibarn.com/stories/mac20/index.html Message-ID: <002a01c3e052$cc2c47e0$ebeca8ac@aoldsl.net> http://www.digibarn.com/stories/mac20/index.html From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 21 12:16:45 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, Looks like we will be able to save these from the Evil Melter, enough people have expressed their interest. Some points of interest: - they are in Santa Clara, CA, not The Netherlands ;-) (sorry, my German and Spanish friends) - they are in a "take em all or go away" deal; this scrapper is not one of the friendliest in the trade... still, he *does* let me go through things, which he never allowed before... - i currently dont have time to work on the systems, as I am about to go to boston, so will just get them and store them in a safe place until march, when i am back here. So.. to all who wanted some of the gear: I am going to arrange for pickup of the stuff (all of the 7 racks, including the ones with all the lab peripheral shtuff) and take out the cruft. Someone local wants to pick up the programmable power supplies saturday, so that is good ("one rack down, 6 to go!") and the digital voltmeter is also "taken". I will try to compress the stuff into 2 or three of the racks (the H960 clones from Tek) to save space. I *assume* nobody wants the Tek displays/terminals. Nobody wanted the VAX 7000, so I'll try to take some pictures of it, before it visits the Evil Melter. Cheers, Fred From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 12:35:43 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040121183543.83055.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > This is why I really can't stand the tube audio > world - there is too much > junk science, snake oil, prejudice, and false > rumors. Anything to make the > rare old stock "sound" better. > Yea, it’s quite hilarious, it seemed when modern audio amplifiers reached a state of perfection (for all practical purposes) all of a sudden imperfect reproduction became high-end audio. Keeps people buying I guess. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 21 12:45:51 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: FF: IBM Displaywrite 5, and CA Supercalc 5 Message-ID: <1074710087.4478.63.camel@weka.localdomain> Any takers for these before they go to landfill? Both are boxed with manuals and 3.5" media. Cambridge, UK... as y'all know :) cheers Jules From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 21 12:46:48 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040121184214.GK306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred N. van Kempen, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 07:16:45PM +0100: > Nobody wanted the VAX 7000, so I'll try to take some pictures of it, > before it visits the Evil Melter. Surely many of us want it, but we don't have space for it, and shipping costs would be prohibitively expensive. Likewise for the TeK displays. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 21 12:37:10 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing Message-ID: <200401211837.KAA19322@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Actually the thought of a tube based computing isn't all that far fetched. I read an article about creating tiny tube circuits that use emission form a tiny nano wires end to create free electrons that can then be used for things like gates or flipflops. The voltages and power levels are quite small. Still, I find it hard to see how even a small tube can work faster than a 90 nm transistor. The biggest speed issue we have today is the external wiring and not the gate speeds. Dwight From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 12:47:10 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121181159.GI306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040121184710.53403.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: Perhaps even > using tubes as > analog components in network interfaces, to improve > the sound of > digital audio, to make it sound "less harsh" would > be an idea that > certain people would drool over. Already done, to see a tubed motherboard click on http://www20.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20021017/hamm er-02.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 12:58:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <200401211709.JAA19216@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Actually I've given quite a bit a thought about > making a computer that uses marbles instead of electricity > or water. You'd put a bucket of marbles at the top and > turn the crank. Gravity would bring the mrbles to the bottom > where one could scoop them up and recycle. Hey Dwight. That's been done (sort of). It's called Dr. Nim :) They come up on eBay periodically. BTW, you have the same Reply-To: problem as Adrian did. Are you also using OE? If you are, check to see if you've set the Reply-To: address is your configuration and remove it ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 13:19:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121181159.GI306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 21 Jan 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Now then, just imagine how one could market a tube-based computer to > those computer aficionados who share certain traits with the > golden-eared audiophiles. Want to know why your computer crashes all the time? Because the one you've got is not using clean electronics! That's right, digital computers made with Integrated Circuits (ICs) produce inferior calculations, leading to subtle shifts and fluctuations that can cause rounding errors and ultimately cause Windows(tm) to crash. Instead, buy our nifty ENIAC (Entirely New Incredibly Accurate Computer) 3000 Computer system! It's based on vacuum tube electronics. That's right, vacuum tubes! Audiophiles have known for years that tube-based audio gear produces a richer, more vibrant sound than that offered by digital audio electronics. That's because tubes prouce a more clean signal. And the same effect applies to computing. If you're using a digital computer made with ICs, their resolution is not fine enough to handle calculations to the precision that modern computing requires, thus causing regular computer crashes. In fact, over 80% of computer failures in the United States [1] are attributed by Complex Random Attenuation Problems. CRAP is the leading cause of computer problems, beating out software bugs and even shoddy programming. Our all new, state-of-the-art ENIAC 3000 uses cleaner, more precise, vacuum tube logic elements that makes our computer hum. It's like music (coming from a tube-based amplifier) to your ears! Beat the CRAP out of your computer and upgrade to an ENIAC 3000 today! [1] Statistics from the Bureau of Universal Numerics & Computing (BUNC) (Ad paid for by Microsoft) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Jan 21 13:27:26 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? Message-ID: <63340-220041321192726367@M2W095.mail2web.com> forgive any inaccuracies to those who may know better (or can remember better...)... what you will be interested in finding out is the deflection per inch voltage required for the beam deflection. I seem to remember ranges of 10-50 volts per inch. You will need to know the filament voltage of course and its amperage. What I don't recall is what the necessary acceleration element voltages were. The grid was used to control the beam brightness with a greater negative voltage with regards to the other elements dimming the beam (I think). The electrostatic plates should have the beam in center with zero volts and then deflection is accomplished by positive and negative voltages. If you can not find precise data then you can find the full deflection voltage by experiment once you have a center beam. I suspect that the long tube should give you a more sensitive tube in that the deflection voltage may be on the low end of the range. best regards, Steve Thatcher Original Message: ----------------- From: Tom Uban uban@ubanproductions.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:50:46 -0600 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? Hello, I have what I believe is a custom CRT. It has a 12" round face, is approximately 20" long, and uses electrostatic deflection. It was manufactured by Thomas Electronics Inc. in Wayne NJ and is hand marked as model number 12E35P31, 12-2-78. I am hoping to put this CRT into service and need to come up with a set of specifications which will likely work with it. What other physical information do I need to take from the CRT in order to help determine the specifications? Any suggestions for creating the power supply and deflection drive electronics are welcome. Thanks! --tom -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 21 13:42:17 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002501c3e056$b0a52c90$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Nobody wanted the VAX 7000, so I'll try to take some pictures > of it, before it visits the Evil Melter. Noone wants the boards ??? -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 21 14:09:11 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? Message-ID: <200401212009.MAA19468@clulw009.amd.com> Hi He can most likely test it out by jumpering it into an oscilliscope. Most use electrostatic deflection. Dwight >From: "melamy@earthlink.net" > >forgive any inaccuracies to those who may know better (or can remember >better...)... > >what you will be interested in finding out is the deflection per inch >voltage required for the beam deflection. I seem to remember ranges of >10-50 volts per inch. You will need to know the filament voltage of course >and its amperage. What I don't recall is what the necessary acceleration >element voltages were. The grid was used to control the beam brightness >with a greater negative voltage with regards to the other elements dimming >the beam (I think). The electrostatic plates should have the beam in center >with zero volts and then deflection is accomplished by positive and >negative voltages. If you can not find precise data then you can find the >full deflection voltage by experiment once you have a center beam. I >suspect that the long tube should give you a more sensitive tube in that >the deflection voltage may be on the low end of the range. > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: Tom Uban uban@ubanproductions.com >Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:50:46 -0600 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? > > >Hello, > >I have what I believe is a custom CRT. It has a 12" round face, is >approximately 20" long, and uses electrostatic deflection. It was >manufactured by Thomas Electronics Inc. in Wayne NJ and is hand >marked as model number 12E35P31, 12-2-78. > >I am hoping to put this CRT into service and need to come up with a >set of specifications which will likely work with it. What other >physical information do I need to take from the CRT in order to >help determine the specifications? > >Any suggestions for creating the power supply and deflection drive >electronics are welcome. > >Thanks! > >--tom > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 21 14:09:24 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! Message-ID: <0401212009.AA14566@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Nobody wanted the VAX 7000, so I'll try to take some pictures of it, > before it visits the Evil Melter. Well, if no one can take the whole machine, can you at least pull all XMI (and VAXBI if any) cards out of it before it's melted down? I would want those, and would even be willing to pay for them (depending on what it has, if any). MS From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 14:11:58 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040121201158.87245.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Wow, thats pretty good, and you did that on-the-fly while sitting at a terminal too! You should supplement your income doing some ad copy or at least an infomercial! --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Want to know why your computer crashes all the time? > Because the one > you've got is not using clean electronics! That's > right, digital > computers made with Integrated Circuits (ICs) > produce inferior > calculations, leading to subtle shifts and > fluctuations that can cause > rounding errors and ultimately cause Windows(tm) to > crash. > > Instead, buy our nifty ENIAC (Entirely New > Incredibly Accurate Computer) > 3000 Computer system! It's based on vacuum tube > electronics. That's > right, vacuum tubes! > > Audiophiles have known for years that tube-based > audio gear produces a > richer, more vibrant sound than that offered by > digital audio electronics. > That's because tubes prouce a more clean signal. > And the same > effect applies to computing. If you're using a > digital computer made > with ICs, their resolution is not fine enough to > handle calculations to > the precision that modern computing requires, thus > causing regular > computer crashes. In fact, over 80% of computer > failures in the United > States [1] are attributed by Complex Random > Attenuation Problems. CRAP > is the leading cause of computer problems, beating > out software bugs and > even shoddy programming. Our all new, > state-of-the-art ENIAC 3000 uses > cleaner, more precise, vacuum tube logic elements > that makes our computer > hum. It's like music (coming from a tube-based > amplifier) to your ears! > > Beat the CRAP out of your computer and upgrade to an > ENIAC 3000 today! > > [1] Statistics from the Bureau of Universal Numerics > & Computing (BUNC) > > (Ad paid for by Microsoft) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jan 21 14:16:58 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) Message-ID: <200401212016.i0LKGwI07739@mwave.heeltoe.com> Does anyone have a manual for an M7891 (128kx18 MOS memory)? What at the switch settings? or more specifically, what do the 9 pos & 4 pos switches do? (address, no doubt) I have one which shows a red light when I try to read/write from the console odt. I just want to make sure the switches aren't set incorrectly before I declare it broken. And are their any prints on the net? (I couldn't find any) thanks! -brad From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 21 14:00:21 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: <002501c3e056$b0a52c90$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Nobody wanted the VAX 7000, so I'll try to take some pictures > > of it, before it visits the Evil Melter. > > Noone wants the boards ??? Nope. Its a shame.. I had never even *seen* a VAX 7000... :( --f From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 21 14:41:32 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > Nobody wanted the VAX 7000, so I'll try to take some pictures > > > of it, before it visits the Evil Melter. > > > > Noone wants the boards ??? > Nope. Its a shame.. I had never even *seen* a VAX 7000... :( > > --f > I'd be interested in the 7000 if its not too big... Never seen one either I would be worried that it had in fact been upgraded to an Alpha though.. Peter Wallace From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Jan 21 14:39:01 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? References: <63340-220041321192726367@M2W095.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <068b01c3e05e$9a75b9a0$6800a8c0@athlon> Steve is quite correct. Deflection data from any 12 inch CRT would do for a ball park startup and you could go from there-main problem is establishing the tube connections and finding the correct filament voltage. Check the cct of an old Tek scope (for example) to see how the various tube electron gun elements are connected and powered. Often the connections can be see through the glass if you know what you are looking for. The filament pins are of course a low resistance to each other. However-- from the type no you quoted you have a P31 phosphor CRT-is this really what you want? P31 is, I think, long persistence, and would be no use for any application needing a fast screen refresh rate due to the long phosphor decay time. It was often used in PPI radar displays etc.although such CRTs of course had a magnetic deflection system. DaveB Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:27 AM Subject: RE: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? > forgive any inaccuracies to those who may know better (or can remember > better...)... > > what you will be interested in finding out is the deflection per inch > voltage required for the beam deflection. I seem to remember ranges of > 10-50 volts per inch. You will need to know the filament voltage of course > and its amperage. What I don't recall is what the necessary acceleration > element voltages were. The grid was used to control the beam brightness > with a greater negative voltage with regards to the other elements dimming > the beam (I think). The electrostatic plates should have the beam in center > with zero volts and then deflection is accomplished by positive and > negative voltages. If you can not find precise data then you can find the > full deflection voltage by experiment once you have a center beam. I > suspect that the long tube should give you a more sensitive tube in that > the deflection voltage may be on the low end of the range. > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Tom Uban uban@ubanproductions.com > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:50:46 -0600 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? > > > Hello, > > I have what I believe is a custom CRT. It has a 12" round face, is > approximately 20" long, and uses electrostatic deflection. It was > manufactured by Thomas Electronics Inc. in Wayne NJ and is hand > marked as model number 12E35P31, 12-2-78. > > I am hoping to put this CRT into service and need to come up with a > set of specifications which will likely work with it. What other > physical information do I need to take from the CRT in order to > help determine the specifications? > > Any suggestions for creating the power supply and deflection drive > electronics are welcome. > > Thanks! > > --tom > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 21 15:47:31 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: Message-ID: <005801c3e068$2c62d100$ebeca8ac@aoldsl.net> I am rolling outta my chair! good one! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: Re: Modern Tube computing > On 21 Jan 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Now then, just imagine how one could market a tube-based computer to > > those computer aficionados who share certain traits with the > > golden-eared audiophiles. > > Want to know why your computer crashes all the time? Because the one > you've got is not using clean electronics! That's right, digital > computers made with Integrated Circuits (ICs) produce inferior > calculations, leading to subtle shifts and fluctuations that can cause > rounding errors and ultimately cause Windows(tm) to crash. > > Instead, buy our nifty ENIAC (Entirely New Incredibly Accurate Computer) > 3000 Computer system! It's based on vacuum tube electronics. That's > right, vacuum tubes! > > Audiophiles have known for years that tube-based audio gear produces a > richer, more vibrant sound than that offered by digital audio electronics. > That's because tubes prouce a more clean signal. And the same > effect applies to computing. If you're using a digital computer made > with ICs, their resolution is not fine enough to handle calculations to > the precision that modern computing requires, thus causing regular > computer crashes. In fact, over 80% of computer failures in the United > States [1] are attributed by Complex Random Attenuation Problems. CRAP > is the leading cause of computer problems, beating out software bugs and > even shoddy programming. Our all new, state-of-the-art ENIAC 3000 uses > cleaner, more precise, vacuum tube logic elements that makes our computer > hum. It's like music (coming from a tube-based amplifier) to your ears! > > Beat the CRAP out of your computer and upgrade to an ENIAC 3000 today! > > [1] Statistics from the Bureau of Universal Numerics & Computing (BUNC) > > (Ad paid for by Microsoft) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 21 14:51:38 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) In-Reply-To: <200401212016.i0LKGwI07739@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <002601c3e060$5e025800$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Does anyone have a manual for an M7891 (128kx18 MOS memory)? Is that an MS11 of some sort? If so put MS11 into manx at http://vt100.net/manx and you should end up with a bunch of links ... on the second page are printsets for the MS11-E, MS11-L and MS11-P. I think you need the MS11-L, but you're the one with the incentive to verify that :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 21 15:00:20 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: M7891 switch settings? (univus) Message-ID: <200401212100.i0LL0KV5022936@spies.com> www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/MP00672_MS11L_engDrw.pdf From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 21 15:00:12 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! Message-ID: <0401212100.AA14687@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Noone wants the boards ??? > Nope. I do! Though I won't be able to do much with a VAX 7000 because of how DEC mucked up its architecture unfortunately (using an Alpha bus in a VAX etc.), I would be interested in any and all XMI and/or VAXBI boards. MS From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 21 15:04:07 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? In-Reply-To: <068b01c3e05e$9a75b9a0$6800a8c0@athlon> References: <63340-220041321192726367@M2W095.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040121144946.0360cde8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 09:39 AM 1/22/2004 +1300, you wrote: >Steve is quite correct. Deflection data from any 12 inch CRT would do for a >ball park startup and you could go from there-main problem is establishing >the tube connections and finding the correct filament voltage. Check the cct >of an old Tek scope (for example) to see how the various tube electron gun >elements are connected and powered. Often the connections can be see through >the glass if you know what you are looking for. The filament pins are of >course a low resistance to each other. I don't know of any scopes with a 12" diameter CRT, but it is certainly a good starting point for experimentation. I should be able to dope out the pins as the neck of the tube is about 3-4" in diameter and is clear. >However-- from the type no you quoted you have a P31 phosphor CRT-is this >really what you want? P31 is, I think, long persistence, and would be no use >for any application needing a fast screen refresh rate due to the long >phosphor decay time. It was often used in PPI radar displays etc.although >such CRTs of course had a magnetic deflection system. Yes, it is a long persist phosphor, used in an old vector display console. I am assuming that the deflection is electrostatic as there are no external deflection coils. There is a chance that I may be able to get the tube specifications from the manufacturer. I've been in contact with them and they are searching for the information. --tom >DaveB >Christchurch, NZ > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:27 AM >Subject: RE: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? > > > > forgive any inaccuracies to those who may know better (or can remember > > better...)... > > > > what you will be interested in finding out is the deflection per inch > > voltage required for the beam deflection. I seem to remember ranges of > > 10-50 volts per inch. You will need to know the filament voltage of course > > and its amperage. What I don't recall is what the necessary acceleration > > element voltages were. The grid was used to control the beam brightness > > with a greater negative voltage with regards to the other elements dimming > > the beam (I think). The electrostatic plates should have the beam in >center > > with zero volts and then deflection is accomplished by positive and > > negative voltages. If you can not find precise data then you can find the > > full deflection voltage by experiment once you have a center beam. I > > suspect that the long tube should give you a more sensitive tube in that > > the deflection voltage may be on the low end of the range. > > > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > > > > > Original Message: > > ----------------- > > From: Tom Uban uban@ubanproductions.com > > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:50:46 -0600 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I have what I believe is a custom CRT. It has a 12" round face, is > > approximately 20" long, and uses electrostatic deflection. It was > > manufactured by Thomas Electronics Inc. in Wayne NJ and is hand > > marked as model number 12E35P31, 12-2-78. > > > > I am hoping to put this CRT into service and need to come up with a > > set of specifications which will likely work with it. What other > > physical information do I need to take from the CRT in order to > > help determine the specifications? > > > > Any suggestions for creating the power supply and deflection drive > > electronics are welcome. > > > > Thanks! > > > > --tom > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 21 14:58:33 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "Re: power cord for 11/34?" (Jan 21, 11:56) References: <200401211656.i0LGuQV05955@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10401212058.ZM11963@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 11:56, Brad Parker wrote: > > The end of the power cord is snipped off this 11/34a I have in front of > me... > > It has a blue wire, a brown wire and a green striped wire. > > I'm assuming the green striped is ground. Brown hot and blue neutral? > > (I think this is a standard, but I shy away from voltages above 48vdc :-) That is indeed the standard in Europe. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 21 15:18:42 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121184710.53403.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040121181159.GI306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040121184710.53403.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040121211330.GL306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe steve, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 10:47:10AM -0800: > > using tubes as > > analog components in network interfaces, to improve > > the sound of > > digital audio, to make it sound "less harsh" would > > be an idea that > > certain people would drool over. > > Already done, to see a tubed motherboard click on No, it hasn't been done. The tubes on the motherboard to which you're referring are in the audio circuitry. That's too practical. My idea is impractical enough to satisfy even the most discriminating aficionados of the impractical, whose apparent sensibility factor ratings are inversely proportional to their net worth. I was referring to the use of tubes as analog components in the network interfaces, which would have the HYPothetical effect, approved by the spirit of P.T. Barnum himself, of purifying the electrons entering and leaving the systems by boiling them and also making the bits transporting digitized audio more musical by smoothing the bit transfer process by thermionic means, which also gives the processed bits transporting digitized audio a much warmer sound. Without that, the tube audio circuitry on such a motherboard, which is being fed inadequately processed, formerly digitized, audio, still sounds far too harsh. This is why my exclusive valved network interface, which uses specially processed psychedelic-colored, capacitors, made from recycled and reformed NOS capacitors, costing over US$1,000 each, from the 1930's, with gold plated wires, is needed. Without it, the sound from a computer system can not sound pure enough to satisfy even the most discriminating golden ears. :-) :-) :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 21 15:21:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Cromemco SCC Eproms In-Reply-To: Joe Abbott "Cromemco SCC Eproms" (Jan 20, 14:23) References: <20040120222306.73700.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10401212121.ZM11982@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 20, 14:23, Joe Abbott wrote: > Does anyone have images of Rom 0 and Rom 1 for > Cromemco SCC S100 single board Z80 computer? I'm very disappointed to find my SCC's single EPROM appears to be something the previous owner made for his own purposes -- it only has 36 bytes of code in it. Sorry, Joe. I guess this one was bought without the monitor/BASIC ROMs, which were optional. So now we both want an MCB-416 EPROM set (or images). On the plus side, I've found a 4FDC floppy controller manual (and a couple of 16FDC manuals). I'd like to get the 4FDC manual scaneed. Could anyone in the UK do this for us? It's 46 8.5" x 11" pages, plus one double size schematic. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 21 15:33:54 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <200401211837.KAA19322@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Still, I find it hard to see how even a small tube can work > faster than a 90 nm transistor. The biggest speed issue > we have today is the external wiring and not the gate speeds. > Dwight > It's simple actually. You see, electrons are afraid of the dark. They're much happer in tubes where they don't have to stumble around in the dark in stark fear that something will leap out and snatch one of them at any second. When they can see where they're going, they can get where they're going much faster. :) g. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Jan 21 10:04:40 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074700541.5641.12.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 15:43, William Donzelli wrote: > > The problem with NOS is that the glass is slightly porous and the valves > > will have gone a bit soft by now. > > This is basically false. Well, I call it as I see it. I have literally dozens of new old stock valves, in their original cardboard sleeves. Some are useable, some are absolutely shagged. It's not all just cheap brands, too. > Just like the old devices, some NOS tubes are awful (various Chinese > brands). The same holds true for the oldies (Arcturus, Penn, Rad Tel, > etc.). Good stuff is good stuff, crap is crap. Which is why I only really use Sovtek stuff now. It's real genuine Mullard parts, just like the handbook for my amp specifies, but with a different screen-print on the glass... > This is why I really can't stand the tube audio world - there is too much > junk science, snake oil, prejudice, and false rumors. Anything to make the > rare old stock "sound" better. I don't know why anyone would use a valve hi-fi amp, that just seems silly. But they look good... In guitar amps, it's a very different story of course. Gordon. From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Wed Jan 21 08:09:11 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org>; from rdd@rddavis.org on Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 08:14:43PM -0500 References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040121150911.A30938@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 08:14:43PM -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:44:52PM -0700: > > So are TUBE computers better? > > Theoretically, they could be faster than solid state computers. No. This would be true only if you'd manage to reach as high integration as with semiconductors (and even then, you'd have a hard job competing with III-V semiconductors and recent fast silicon technologies). Surely, you can build tubed HF transmitter devices that work in the some GHz range, and such are still in use when it comes to high power, but the limiting factor is the size of the complete system. It is useless to build a tube gate or flip flop that could switch at some GHz when two of such circuits are connected by a wire that is much longer than the time a light or EM pulse spreads. Note that an EM wave can move (in vacuum) about 30cm/nsec. In modern semiconductor circuits, this has already been shown to be a limiting factor for reachable speed. I don't know what size of a building you'd need, what the power consumption would be, if you'd consider to construct a "fast" tube-based Pentium even at some lousy 33MHz speed (I said Pentium, not Pentium IV two magnitudes faster). Definitely, you wouldn't be able to put it into a cube of 30 cm^3 to at least guarantee a gate-to-gate delay of 1ns. Nostalgy left alone, tubes may still have their application fields, such as ripping off crazy HiFi freaks (although you could do better with gold- plated loudspeaker cables there), but computers are not even by far among them. In the 50s, with Ge-PNP transistors with transit frequencies of some 100kHz, they were appropriate. Holger From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 21 15:29:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: wow! just got a IBM PC Luggable! More info?! In-Reply-To: <003b01c3dff1$04038dc0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> from "ed sharpe" at Jan 21, 4 00:34:34 am Message-ID: > > the museum was just given a nice IBM PC that is a luggable... sort of = Is this the 5155 PortablePC? > like a compact! > have not seen many of these... are they scarce? would like to find any = I have one, but I don't think they're all that common. I also have the appropriate TechRefs. It's really a re-boxed PC/XT. It's got the PC/XT motherboard (anf yes, you can do the 640K mod), PC floppy controller (linked to 2 half-height 360K drives) and CGA video card (linked to a monochrome composite monitor using one of the internal header connectors). The monitor seems to be a Zenith chassis. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 21 15:33:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 21, 4 00:42:07 am Message-ID: > I then kept pouring the water back and forth between each other: a > FlipFlop! Some time ago I went to a lecture on soap films, where the lecturer did various demonstrations with such films contrained between plastic plates, with metal pins anchoring the ends of the films. The film always forms a local minimum of area IIRC. Anyway, one configuration of pins had 2 stable forms of the soap film, and could be switched from one to the other by gently blowing on it. I pointed ou that this was essentially a flip-flop and could be used as a memory device. I then said 'Well, I've heard of bubble memory, but this is ridiculous' -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 21 15:43:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? In-Reply-To: <200401211656.i0LGuQV05955@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Jan 21, 4 11:56:26 am Message-ID: > > > The end of the power cord is snipped off this 11/34a I have in front of > me... > > It has a blue wire, a brown wire and a green striped wire. > > I'm assuming the green striped is ground. Brown hot and blue neutral? Exactly. > > (I think this is a standard, but I shy away from voltages above 48vdc :-) It's certainly a standard used in England and the rest of Europe. All our flexible mains cables (not the rigid ones used for house wiring inside walls [1]) use this colour code. [1] House wiring colours, at least for single phase, are : red = live, black = neutral, bare (but sleved with green or green/yellow sleeving at the termination points) = earth) -tony From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Jan 21 16:09:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401212211.RAA13155@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > [...soap films...] > Anyway, one configuration of pins had 2 stable forms of the soap > film, and could be switched from one to the other by gently blowing > on it. Four pins at the corners of a square is a good example. You get a structure of five pieces of film, one horizontal or veritcal through the centre of the square, the others joining the first to the corners, the parts meeting at 120? angles. By blowing on it horizontally or vertically you can flip the flop into the other state. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Jan 21 16:19:43 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I then said 'Well, I've heard of bubble memory, but this >is ridiculous' -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 21 17:37:35 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: wow! just got a IBM PC Luggable! More info?! References: Message-ID: <008201c3e077$8c5c5fe0$ebeca8ac@aoldsl.net> yes! it is a 5155 PortablePC have not powered it up yet, but looks as new... ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: Re: wow! just got a IBM PC Luggable! More info?! > > > > the museum was just given a nice IBM PC that is a luggable... sort of = > > Is this the 5155 PortablePC? > > > like a compact! > > have not seen many of these... are they scarce? would like to find any = > > I have one, but I don't think they're all that common. I also have the > appropriate TechRefs. > > It's really a re-boxed PC/XT. It's got the PC/XT motherboard (anf yes, > you can do the 640K mod), PC floppy controller (linked to 2 half-height > 360K drives) and CGA video card (linked to a monochrome composite monitor > using one of the internal header connectors). The monitor seems to be a > Zenith chassis. > > -tony > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 21 16:35:58 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: <1074700541.5641.12.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <400EFECE.5040902@jetnet.ab.ca> Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 15:43, William Donzelli wrote: >>This is why I really can't stand the tube audio world - there is too much >>junk science, snake oil, prejudice, and false rumors. Anything to make the >>rare old stock "sound" better. > > > I don't know why anyone would use a valve hi-fi amp, that just seems > silly. But they look good... > In guitar amps, it's a very different story of course. From what I have read on the internet, speakers have got better in the last 20 years, Solid State Amps have not gotten better, since they are often not tested on real speakers. Tube amps with less negitive feedback handle modern speakers better. Ben. From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jan 21 16:53:16 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <1074700541.5641.12.camel@pluto> References: <1074700541.5641.12.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <20040121224203.GN306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Gordon JC Pearce, from writings of Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 03:55:40PM +0000: > On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 15:43, William Donzelli wrote: > Well, I call it as I see it. I have literally dozens of new old stock > valves, in their original cardboard sleeves. Some are useable, some are > absolutely shagged. It's not all just cheap brands, too. That makes me wonder if some of those tubes were actually used tubes put in the cases of new tubes when tubes were replaced. Of course, tubes can develop leaks and become gassy. Also, some of those boxes may have been dropped over the course a few decades or so. > I don't know why anyone would use a valve hi-fi amp, that just seems > silly. But they look good... Tube amps can sound good as well. Hint: use bi-amping or tri-amping. For the low-end, use a big solid-state amps with huge filter capacitors, and use tube amps for the higher frequencies. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 21 17:17:43 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Data I/O System 19 Message-ID: <200401212317.i0LNHhJF013861@spies.com> >Ok, who was it that said they had information on >one of these? www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dataIO From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 21 17:45:57 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? Message-ID: <200401212345.i0LNjvud018524@spies.com> I have what I believe is a custom CRT. It has a 12" round face, is approximately 20" long -- .. and has a second one mounted next to it, and a keyboard underneath? There may be schematics for such a device in the Computer History Museum archives if so. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 17:56:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121201158.87245.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, steve wrote: > Wow, thats pretty good, and you did that on-the-fly while sitting at a > terminal too! You should supplement your income doing some ad copy or at > least an infomercial! Not my best work (I put about 4 minutes into it) but thanks :) Anyone need an ad copyist? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 18:05:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:42 2005 Subject: wow! just got a IBM PC Luggable! More info?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > the museum was just given a nice IBM PC that is a luggable... sort of = > > Is this the 5155 PortablePC? > > > like a compact! > > have not seen many of these... are they scarce? would like to find any = > > I have one, but I don't think they're all that common. I also have the > appropriate TechRefs. At least in my neck of the woods, 5155's are pretty common. I've got at least 6. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 21 18:15:15 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? In-Reply-To: <200401212345.i0LNjvud018524@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040121181256.03533e38@mail.ubanproductions.com> >.. and has a second one mounted next to it, and a keyboard underneath? > >There may be schematics for such a device in the Computer History Museum >archives if so. Heh! You've either been reading between the lines, or are on another list:-) What is the best way to get a copy of the manual and/or schematics from CHM? http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe.jpg http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe_tom.jpg I have a real keyboard to fill the hole. I am going to have to create some new electronics as much has been stripped, but what a cool project! --tom From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 21 18:17:06 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: Message-ID: <00c801c3e07d$125e2740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > That's been done (sort of). It's called Dr. Nim :) > They come up on eBay periodically. I've haven't seen Dr. Nim work** I have a few still pictures here, from eBay, but not the machine. Can somebody make a small .mpg file of it working? John A. **at least, not since the TV commercials nearly 40 years ago. From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jan 21 18:18:09 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:51:38 GMT." <002601c3e060$5e025800$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200401220018.i0M0I9r12988@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Antonio Carlini" wrote: >> Does anyone have a manual for an M7891 (128kx18 MOS memory)? > >Is that an MS11 of some sort? I thought MS11 was core. This is MOS. maybe I'm confused. -brad From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 21 18:21:22 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: <83A490FB-4C36-11D8-B3D1-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Jan 21, 2004, at 9:06 AM, Dan Wright wrote: > > > Ultra Spec cables makes good adapters (I have several), but they're not > > cheap... > > > > http://www.ultraspec.com/ > > Bah. Get on ePay and buy one of the $10 "SGI/Sun" 13W3/HD15 > adapters, and pull pin 10 on the 13W3 side. That's the rightmost small > pin in the top row if you're looking at it like this: (O O \\\\\ O) > > In case Mail.app is actually sending in fixed-width today: > > __ __ __ > / \ / \ o o o o x / \ > | | | | | | > \ __ / \ __ / o o o o o \ __ / > > > The Sun Composite-Sync signal and the SGI Composite-Sync signal > aren't on the same pin, and most CS-capable monitors do it the Sun way. > Pulling pin 10 disables CS from the SGI adapter and forces everything > to SOG. > > I can verify this on Indy, Octane, Indigo2 Extreme and Impact, and > IIRC, Indigo R3k models. Do you know if and how the Apple 13W3-15 cable (Apple 590-0615-A) differs from the "SGI/Sub" version? They look the same externally, but Apple is rather (in)famous for altering pinouts. - don > Or, if your tube has BNC connectors, you can dig out your old > 13W3/BNC cable, and attach only the RGB leads. > > > Doc > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Jan 21 18:34:02 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040121092519.0080b6d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040121092519.0080b6d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401211634020501.15F065F9@192.168.42.129> I've dropped a note to Data I/O support asking for a cross-reference. I'll post the results when they get back to me. Keep the peace(es). *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21-Jan-04 at 09:25 Joe R. wrote: >Hi Bruce, > > The PAL next to the SIMM sockets is pn 324-1737-002. The one next to the >corner is pn 324-1736-001. I will post a picture later if you still need >it. > > Joe > >At 03:55 PM 1/20/04 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi, Joe, >> >>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >>On 20-Jan-04 at 17:46 Joe R. wrote: >> >>>Found this today. It's about 6 1/2" x 7" and has 8 30 pin SIMM sockets >>>and a 60 pin ribbon cable header on it. It's marked 701-2214-001. Does >>>anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? >> >> The 60-pin header is a giveaway. That's either the 4MB or 8MB memory >expander for the UniSite series (with the original controller board -- it >won't work on the later production units). >> >> Take a close look at the label on the PAL. It should have a Data I/O part >number on it. Tell me what that number is, and I can tell you which memory >size it will accommodate. >> >> It'll use standard 1Mx9 PARITY SIMMs. You MUST use parity, and (in most >cases) they must be the nine-chip type. Data I/O expander boards had >trouble with the three-chip type SIMMs. >> >> >> >>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >>Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >>Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >>kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >>"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with >surreal ports?" >> >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 21 18:37:36 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on using SVGA monitor on SGI? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2CBD618B-4C73-11D8-8B15-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 21, 2004, at 6:21 PM, Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: >> The Sun Composite-Sync signal and the SGI Composite-Sync signal >> aren't on the same pin, and most CS-capable monitors do it the Sun >> way. >> Pulling pin 10 disables CS from the SGI adapter and forces >> everything >> to SOG. >> >> I can verify this on Indy, Octane, Indigo2 Extreme and Impact, and >> IIRC, Indigo R3k models. > > Do you know if and how the Apple 13W3-15 cable (Apple 590-0615-A) > differs from the "SGI/Sub" version? They look the same > externally, but Apple is rather (in)famous for altering pinouts. I dunno. I've never seen either cable in the flesh. Doc From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 21 18:42:50 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT? Message-ID: <200401220042.i0M0goWf027197@spies.com> > What is the best way to get a copy of the manual and/or schematics from CHM? I'll talk to the powers that be. From memory, they have a complete CDC 6600 print set (about 4 feet of 8x11 binders) so I suspect the console will be in there. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 18:57:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040121181256.03533e38@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe.jpg > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe_tom.jpg Oh, cool score!! > I have a real keyboard to fill the hole. I am going to have to create some > new electronics as much has been stripped, but what a cool project! Quite a project. Good luck! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 18:58:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <00c801c3e07d$125e2740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > > That's been done (sort of). It's called Dr. Nim :) > > They come up on eBay periodically. > > I've haven't seen Dr. Nim work** > I have a few still pictures here, from eBay, but not the machine. > Can somebody make a small .mpg file of it working? I wish I had the time. But it really is quite a clever design. And a great way to get one started in mechanical computing elements (which is what the DigiComp 1 is, made by ESR, the same company that made Dr. Nim). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cube1 at charter.net Wed Jan 21 19:33:17 2004 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Iomec disc drive / HP 2871 Controller In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040117185440.03d68298@cirithi> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040104213209.033f8768@cirithi> <3FF846D3.80609@tiac.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20040103083041.03e0af10@cirithi> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040121192728.037a5d28@cirithi> For those who might want to follow my adventure with the IOMEC disk drive and controller (aka HP 2870 drive) At last report, the controller was hung in a state for which the schematics didn't match the board. Part of that issue turned out to be an ECO wire I removed which wire-anded (I haven't quite figured out why it is called a wired-or sometimes, because in the cases I have seen, if either input is 0 it drags the result down to zero -- it is a wired-or only in a negative logic sense) the outputs of two flip-flops together. Putting that wire back got it to advance one more phase in the state machine. The next problem is that one of two error flags (also wire "anded") is inhibiting a flag which would permit advance into the actual write operation. Temporarily cutting the trace on the circuit board which brought that trace into the gates indeed allowed the controller to proceed and write the first sector on a track of a format operation (at least it transferred the words necessary via DMA to do so -- I have no idea if it actually wrote anything at this point). The good news is that the error flag stuff matches the schematic -- so far, so I have high hopes of tracking that down.... WooHoo.... (and God bless logic analyzers....) Jay --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 21 19:31:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Data 1/0 Expansion Ram Board? In-Reply-To: <200401211634020501.15F065F9@192.168.42.129> References: <3.0.6.32.20040121092519.0080b6d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040120174658.00817dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040121092519.0080b6d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040121203152.008105d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Bruce. I posted a picture, it's at . Joe At 04:34 PM 1/21/04 -0800, you wrote: >I've dropped a note to Data I/O support asking for a cross-reference. I'll post the results when they get back to me. > > Keep the peace(es). > > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 21-Jan-04 at 09:25 Joe R. wrote: > >>Hi Bruce, >> >> The PAL next to the SIMM sockets is pn 324-1737-002. The one next to the >>corner is pn 324-1736-001. I will post a picture later if you still need >>it. >> >> Joe >> >>At 03:55 PM 1/20/04 -0800, you wrote: >>>Hi, Joe, >>> >>>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >>> >>>On 20-Jan-04 at 17:46 Joe R. wrote: >>> >>>>Found this today. It's about 6 1/2" x 7" and has 8 30 pin SIMM sockets >>>>and a 60 pin ribbon cable header on it. It's marked 701-2214-001. Does >>>>anyone know which Data I/O machine it's for? >>> >>> The 60-pin header is a giveaway. That's either the 4MB or 8MB memory >>expander for the UniSite series (with the original controller board -- it >>won't work on the later production units). >>> >>> Take a close look at the label on the PAL. It should have a Data I/O part >>number on it. Tell me what that number is, and I can tell you which memory >>size it will accommodate. >>> >>> It'll use standard 1Mx9 PARITY SIMMs. You MUST use parity, and (in most >>cases) they must be the nine-chip type. Data I/O expander boards had >>trouble with the three-chip type SIMMs. >>> >>> >>> >>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >>>Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >>>Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >>>kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >>>"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with >>surreal ports?" >>> >>> >>> > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 21 19:36:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: What is this? Hitachi board and IC Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040121203629.00811be0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this in a pile of scrap boards the other day. . It looks like it might be some kind of evaluation board. Does anyone know exactly what it is? It has the Hitachi logo on it along with the number H40LCEV00/133. The ZIF socket contained the IC at the bottom. It's a Hitachi HD44857E. I haven't been able to find out what it is either. Joe From finnegpt at purdue.edu Wed Jan 21 19:38:18 2004 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040121181256.03533e38@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040121181256.03533e38@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200401212038.18544.finnegpt@purdue.edu> Tom Uban declared on Wednesday 21 January 2004 07:15 pm: > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe.jpg > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe_tom.jpg > > I have a real keyboard to fill the hole. I am going to have to create > some new electronics as much has been stripped, but what a cool > project! Hah, I know where you got that from... I saw it there just a week or two ago. I'm glad that it went to a good home... I did't have anywhere near enough space to put it. -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Jan 21 19:53:55 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: You lucked out! Message-ID: <200401211753550022.1639872A@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, (CC to Classiccmp) You lucked out. Data I/O says that what you have there is the 8MB board. Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 21 20:25:33 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: UPDATE (RE: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 !) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, Here's an update. I went back there today to take some pics and agree on a price. Turns out he was in a (gold ;-)rush, and was quite eager on melting 'em down... So.. I gave him my sweetest smile, offered to unrack em right there, and got to it. Yeah, my clothes look like crap now :) Anyway. I unracked all four 11/34's, the four (I believe) RK05's and allt he cables. We palleted the lot, and they shrinkwrapped it. I will arrange for pickup tomorrow, and have it stored until I come back in march, at which time I'll clean em all and such, so people can come get em. NEEDED: I need one H960 rack in good condition to put "my" stuff in.. had to leave the racks there, cause I cant store anything right now, other than a single pallet. All who have replied will get answers the next three days. While looking around there, I found some more fun stuff- although I dont care for the two VT100's that were there, nor for the two Tek 1401s (I believe), I did find some Alpha and VAX stuff.. we are talking about those. I also found *drums rolling* a complete PDP-8, complete with DECtape TU56, papertape and so on, labelled "Industrial 8" and in two racks. Unit has NEVER BEEN USED - apparently it was a "hot spare" for a lab, and has been sealed and shrinkwrapped (on a pallet) since, pff, 1975 or so! That area also had an 11/70, (with serial console) but that *seemed* to be incomplete. *happy dance* The bad news is: they were up for melting tomorrow (thu) at 9am. I did talk to the guy, and offered him an amount of money that probably is many, many times the gold value of these. I want em :) So.. keep yer fingers crossed, all! More later, I need to upload some pictures :) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 21 20:29:07 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: <0401212100.AA14687@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > Noone wants the boards ??? > > Nope. > > I do! Though I won't be able to do much with a VAX 7000 because of how DEC > mucked up its architecture unfortunately (using an Alpha bus in a VAX etc.), I > would be interested in any and all XMI and/or VAXBI boards. Too, er, late. I saw the system go into the Eternal Flame unit.. :( -f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 21 20:06:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: You lucked out! In-Reply-To: <200401211753550022.1639872A@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040121210648.0081d610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bruce, Wahooo! Do you know if I can just plug this into any Unisite or does the Unisite need any particular ROM, PAL, etc? Joe At 05:53 PM 1/21/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, Joe, >(CC to Classiccmp) > > You lucked out. Data I/O says that what you have there is the 8MB board. > > Enjoy! > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jan 21 20:49:20 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: UPDATE (RE: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 !) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred, Please contact me immediately regarding your latest find!!! David V. Corbin dvcorbin@optonline.net 631-244-8487 -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:26 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: UPDATE (RE: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 !) All, Here's an update. I went back there today to take some pics and agree on a price. Turns out he was in a (gold ;-)rush, and was quite eager on melting 'em down... So.. I gave him my sweetest smile, offered to unrack em right there, and got to it. Yeah, my clothes look like crap now :) Anyway. I unracked all four 11/34's, the four (I believe) RK05's and allt he cables. We palleted the lot, and they shrinkwrapped it. I will arrange for pickup tomorrow, and have it stored until I come back in march, at which time I'll clean em all and such, so people can come get em. NEEDED: I need one H960 rack in good condition to put "my" stuff in.. had to leave the racks there, cause I cant store anything right now, other than a single pallet. All who have replied will get answers the next three days. While looking around there, I found some more fun stuff- although I dont care for the two VT100's that were there, nor for the two Tek 1401s (I believe), I did find some Alpha and VAX stuff.. we are talking about those. I also found *drums rolling* a complete PDP-8, complete with DECtape TU56, papertape and so on, labelled "Industrial 8" and in two racks. Unit has NEVER BEEN USED - apparently it was a "hot spare" for a lab, and has been sealed and shrinkwrapped (on a pallet) since, pff, 1975 or so! That area also had an 11/70, (with serial console) but that *seemed* to be incomplete. *happy dance* The bad news is: they were up for melting tomorrow (thu) at 9am. I did talk to the guy, and offered him an amount of money that probably is many, many times the gold value of these. I want em :) So.. keep yer fingers crossed, all! More later, I need to upload some pictures :) --f From technobug at comcast.net Wed Jan 21 21:02:03 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <200401212254.i0LMsZiS080367@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401212254.i0LMsZiS080367@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5AA5DD56-4C87-11D8-993D-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On 21 Jan 2004 15:55:40 +0000, Gordon JC Pearce keyed in: > On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 15:43, William Donzelli wrote: >>> The problem with NOS is that the glass is slightly porous and the >>> valves >>> will have gone a bit soft by now. >> >> This is basically false. > > Well, I call it as I see it. I have literally dozens of new old stock > valves, in their original cardboard sleeves. Some are useable, some > are > absolutely shagged. It's not all just cheap brands, too. Space heaters generally decay due to the escape of gasses into the envelope. This can be caused by two mechanisms: outgassing and leakage. When the tube is manufactured care is generally taken in choosing the metals/glasses to ensure that they have a low gas content. Initially the envelope is evacuated under fairly high vacuum and baked to allow any adsorbed gasses to outgas. The longer the baking, the better the vacuum. Consequently, the cheapies will use cheap metals/glasses and shortcut the bake-out time. Finally, the tube is sealed and the getter is fired (i.e. evaporated). The getter is an active metal that you find plated around the base of the tube. The getter generates a high vacuum in the tube by combining with active gas species and trapping the inert ones. Since getter is expensive, cheap tubes go short on this item with the subsequent outgassing of the guts causing the decrease in conduction. The second mod of failure is by leakage of helium. Although this gas exists at about 5 ppm in air it abhors a vacuum and will over time leak into the tube. Glass is permeable to helium. (HeNe lasers fail due to the leakage of He. You can take a dead HeNe and resurrect it by placing it in pure helium for several weeks...). The inclusion of gas into a tube is evident by the blue glow one sees in a tube that is going over the hill. Moral: don't own tube equipment if you're in the balloon business. As an aside, during the '60s is saw a control computer being developed for the military that consisted of several hundred tubes integrated into a volume of approximately 20x20x20 cm. The "tubes" were fabricated by forming cavities in ceramic layers with beta emitters for cathodes and plates and interconnection evaporated onto the ceramic. These layers were then stacked to form the controller. The average tube was on the order of a 1/2 cm^2 or less. This baby didn't glow, but I would like to have the bucks that went into its manufacture... Claude Ceccon From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jan 21 21:07:28 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: UPDATE (RE: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 !) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: People, people. 1. I said I had *4* units, not *40* ... ;-) The VAX handling email to this account is doing overtime... basically, I will contact the people first who emailed me last night re the 3 "extra" systems.. if any are left after that, I will say so on here. 2. NOOOOOO. No. Nein. Nee. I will *not* part with that PDP-8 :) Stop trying to make me part with it.. not gonna happen... --f From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 21 21:37:15 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT? In-Reply-To: <200401220042.i0M0goWf027197@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040121213608.034f23a8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 04:42 PM 1/21/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > What is the best way to get a copy of the manual and/or schematics from > CHM? > >I'll talk to the powers that be. From memory, they have a complete CDC >6600 print >set (about 4 feet of 8x11 binders) so I suspect the console will be in there. Actually, this is a 6500 console, which is slightly different on the exterior, but the interior may be the same. Here is the data from the tags on the back: Tag #1: Control Data - Data Display Display Console Assy No. 14001400 Serial No. 158 WT 390 Model DD60B Input PWR BTU/HR 1621 1 ph 115v 60cy 242w 3 208 400 475 Tag #2: Control Data Arden Hills Operation Mod No 6612 Type Desg C01 Console Display Part 18141700 Rev Serial No 1051 Tag #3: Computer Leasing Co. 12629 --tnx --tom From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 21:44:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: XGA monitor Message-ID: I just got in an XGA monitor. Now, I vaguely remember that this was a precursor to SVGA. Correct? Is this worth saving from a historical point of view? I'm thinking yes. Here's some terse information: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/X/XGA.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 21 21:52:52 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: XGA monitor Message-ID: <1f1.17c0928d.2d40a314@aol.com> In a message dated 1/21/2004 10:45:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, vcf@siconic.com writes: I just got in an XGA monitor. Now, I vaguely remember that this was a precursor to SVGA. Correct? Is this worth saving from a historical point of view? I'm thinking yes. Is it an IBM 9517? XGA was IBM's hires VGA I think after they made the 8514 display and adaptor. Debuted on the PS/2 models. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 21 21:51:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: available: 1/2 tape, 7 inch reels, $6.25 each Message-ID: <00ff01c3e09b$07f75bf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I was offered 7 inch diameter 600' tape reels (1/2 inch), fully reconditioned (cleaned and actually recertified) for $6.25 per tape. I was thinking of picking up some. I really like the small reels, normal size reels are great for backup, but for OS load tapes and file transport I like the 7 inchers. A) Is this a good price? B) Anyone want me to order some for them? (obviously depends on A) Jay From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Jan 21 22:08:57 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Compaq Portable III 3.5" disk drive Message-ID: <1074744537.5995.13.camel@cobol> Bob Lafleur spoke thusly: >I have a Compaq Portable III with a 3.5" floppy drive that seems to >have >gone bad. Does anyone know if this is a "standard" drive that could be >replaced with a current 3.5" drive? If not, is there a specific type of >drive I need to use for a replacement? > >I haven't even ventured to see how to go about opening the machine yet, >so I >don't know if it's easy or hard. Any pointers would be helpful. Thanks. I also had a Compaq Portable III - - it had a 5.25" FDD. It left the plant 17th March 1988 - the date of my birth! It got stolen from my grandmother's summerhouse in 1999 - and the insurance company gave me 1500 dollars for it! (Disclaimer: It was my mother who 'did all the talking' to the company - I got a lot of money because of the proprietary accounting software on the machine - The check came as a surprise to both of us) From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 21 22:08:05 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: available: 1/2 tape, 7 inch reels, $6.25 each References: <00ff01c3e09b$07f75bf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <011701c3e09d$55ef4fa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> certified 6250bpi by the way J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: available: 1/2 tape, 7 inch reels, $6.25 each > I was offered 7 inch diameter 600' tape reels (1/2 inch), fully > reconditioned (cleaned and actually recertified) for $6.25 per tape. I was > thinking of picking up some. I really like the small reels, normal size > reels are great for backup, but for OS load tapes and file transport I like > the 7 inchers. > > A) Is this a good price? > B) Anyone want me to order some for them? (obviously depends on A) > > Jay > > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 22:21:58 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer Message-ID: It's rare that I find a unique and interesting computer these days. This Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer is one such. Apparently, it was marketed in Japan because it has the Katakana (I think) character set painted onto the keycap fronts, but otherwise is a standard QWERTY keyboard layout. The back connectors include: 1) Power 2) Joystick (a 16-pin DIP socket mounted on its side!) 3) Tape In 4) Tape Out 5) TV (the jack of an RF modulator) 6) Expansion 7) Drive 1 8) Drive 2 9) Printer 10) Monitor (RCA type jack) 11) 80 Column (RCA type jack) Now, as I typed this, I started to sense something familiar, especially when I took into account the pin count on the disk drive connectors, and especially with the joystick port. I do believe this is an Apple ][+ clone. I opened it up and it has a 6502 and a Z80 onboard, with three ROMs and lots of RAM chips, sort of like many ][+ clones I've seen (I have at least a couple or three other ][+ clones with 6502 and Z80 on-board). I just can't verify this by booting it up because it has a very funky power connector which requires an external power supply of some sort (which I didn't get with this). Anyone ever heard of this? The web turns up empty. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 21 22:30:00 2004 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:38:18 -0500 . <200401212038.18544.finnegpt@purdue.edu> Message-ID: <20040122043627.LNRE1899.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> In message <200401212038.18544.finnegpt@purdue.edu>, Patrick Finnegan writes: >Tom Uban declared on Wednesday 21 January 2004 07:15 pm: >> http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe.jpg >> http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe_tom.jpg >> >> I have a real keyboard to fill the hole. I am going to have to create >> some new electronics as much has been stripped, but what a cool >> project! > >Hah, I know where you got that from... I saw it there just a week or two >ago. I'm glad that it went to a good home... I did't have anywhere >near enough space to put it. Whoa! Are you saying that the console for the 6000 series machine that PUCC had is just now leaving campus? I remember when they decomissioned those machines around '89 or '90. In fact, I snagged a couple of manuals that were sitting in the hallway afterwards. By the way, do they still have those 205s and that ETA-10 they had way back? I've got to figure they got rid of them a while back, but you never know. Brian L. Stuart From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 23:03:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? In-Reply-To: <20040122043627.LNRE1899.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > By the way, do they still have those 205s and that ETA-10 > they had way back? I've got to figure they got rid of them > a while back, but you never know. I know the Computer History Museum has two ETA-10's (or at least parts). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 21 23:06:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: XGA monitor In-Reply-To: <1f1.17c0928d.2d40a314@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Is it an IBM 9517? XGA was IBM's hires VGA I think after they made the 8514 > display and adaptor. Debuted on the PS/2 models. It's a TechMedia TCM-1448G. Also, a long-term nitpick with your messages: doesn't your mailer have a proper reply feature? It's always a chore finding where the quoted message ends and your reply begins. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 21 15:10:15 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: References: <200401211709.JAA19216@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040121211015.GA27993@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 10:58:54AM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > Actually I've given quite a bit a thought about > > making a computer that uses marbles instead of electricity > > or water. You'd put a bucket of marbles at the top and > > turn the crank. Gravity would bring the mrbles to the bottom > > where one could scoop them up and recycle. > > Hey Dwight. > > That's been done (sort of). It's called Dr. Nim :) They come up on eBay > periodically. I know... I just won one. :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Jan-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -16.3 F (-26.9 C) Windchill -45.9 F (-43.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.1 kts Grid 035 Barometer 685 mb (10436. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Jan 22 01:04:58 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0EC7@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> I have scanned 11/34 field maintenance print sets. They are at http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ And if I am not mistaken the MOS memory is there too. AFAIK is MS11 correct, just the suffix letter makes all the difference (core, 11/44 MOS, etc.) gd luck, - Henk, PA8PDP > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Parker [mailto:brad@heeltoe.com] > Sent: donderdag 22 januari 2004 1:18 > To: arcarlini@iee.org; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) > > > "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > >> Does anyone have a manual for an M7891 (128kx18 MOS memory)? > > > >Is that an MS11 of some sort? > > I thought MS11 was core. This is MOS. maybe I'm confused. > > -brad From ernestls at attbi.com Thu Jan 22 02:08:58 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074758938.3302.2.camel@ernest> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 20:21, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It's rare that I find a unique and interesting computer these days. This > Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer is one such. Apparently, it > was marketed in Japan because it has the Katakana (I think) character set > painted onto the keycap fronts, but otherwise is a standard QWERTY > keyboard layout. > > The back connectors include: > > 1) Power > 2) Joystick (a 16-pin DIP socket mounted on its side!) > 3) Tape In > 4) Tape Out > 5) TV (the jack of an RF modulator) > 6) Expansion > 7) Drive 1 > 8) Drive 2 > 9) Printer > 10) Monitor (RCA type jack) > 11) 80 Column (RCA type jack) > > Now, as I typed this, I started to sense something familiar, especially > when I took into account the pin count on the disk drive connectors, and > especially with the joystick port. I do believe this is an Apple ][+ > clone. I opened it up and it has a 6502 and a Z80 onboard, with three > ROMs and lots of RAM chips, sort of like many ][+ clones I've seen (I have > at least a couple or three other ][+ clones with 6502 and Z80 on-board). > > I just can't verify this by booting it up because it has a very funky > power connector which requires an external power supply of some sort > (which I didn't get with this). > > Anyone ever heard of this? The web turns up empty. It is indeed an Apple II clone. I have pics of one on my website, including the power supply. That's a great find. I'd love to get my hands on one of those. What other clones do you have, Sellam? Perhaps we should discuss a trade of some kind. Yes? E. From ernestls at attbi.com Thu Jan 22 02:19:13 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074759552.3302.9.camel@ernest> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 20:21, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I just can't verify this by booting it up because it has a very funky > power connector which requires an external power supply of some sort > (which I didn't get with this). I wonder if a regular Apple II power supply would work for that system? You'd have to change the connector on the power supply but that would be fairly simple. You might also have to change the power setting from 110 to 220 but most of those old power supplies had a switch for that. It would be worth a try -and simple to do. From asholz at topinform.de Thu Jan 22 03:28:25 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400F97B9.6060702@topinform.com> Fred,, >- they are in Santa Clara, CA, not The Netherlands ;-) > > This is very disappointing! :'( > (sorry, my German and Spanish friends) > > > Andreas From rmu_scada at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 19:40:15 2004 From: rmu_scada at yahoo.com (Joe Abbott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Cromemco SCC Eproms Message-ID: <20040122014015.50799.qmail@web41307.mail.yahoo.com> >On Jan 20, 14:23, Joe Abbott wrote: >> Does anyone have images of Rom 0 and Rom 1 for >>Cromemco SCC S100 single board Z80 computer? after which, Pete wrote: >I'm very disappointed to find my SCC's single EPROM appears to be >something the previous owner made for his own purposes -- it only has >36 bytes of code in it. Sorry, Joe. I guess this one was bought >without the monitor/BASIC ROMs, which were optional. Just my luck! Thanks anyway, Pete. Hopefully someone out there will be able to help. I'd bet yours contains the code to disable the onboard roms and jump to the floppy boot rom. My System Zero manual mentions this and lists the asm code as well as a hardware mod. Might be why there doesn't seem to be many of these roms around. Joe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Wed Jan 21 22:23:54 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: TE16 capstan roller is very sticky -- what to do? Message-ID: <200401220423.i0M4NscT015427@king.cs.drexel.edu> I haven't even seen a TE16 capstan roller, but since TU58s have a similar mechanism to the HP-85 cartridge drives, the following advice may be of use: 1. erd posted the following in the vintage-computer mailing list: > [...] I have used 1/2" tygon tubing from the local hardware store > (think "large aquarium hose") to refurb DEC TU58 drives (same tapes, > same capstan, same melting problem). > > I got a foot of it a few years ago and have yet to run out (even though > between HP line analyers, VAXen, and a VT103, I have nearly a dozen > drives to overhaul). 2. katie posted the following in the MoHPC forum: > In the plumbing department at Home Depot I found some stuff called > Magic Wrap, it's a roll of very thin rubber 1" x 16'. I cut a 2" x > 1/4" piece of this stuff stretched it out to about the width of the > roller then wrapped it around (several turns) the cleaned off roller > as tight as I could. Then I smoothed it out by spinning the drive > wheel at high speed and grinding down the rubber with an emery > board. This sort of melts the rubber and fusses it to itself getting > rid of the overlap and making the whole thing perfectly symmetric. > To spin the drive wheel I disconnected one of the motor leads and > put it on a variable power supply. You can use up to 12 volts but > I found 5 or 6 volts ran the wheel plenty fast with tons of torque. > Basically, you want to use it like a lathe and I found that the > tape head makes a good tool rest! 3. rhahm wrote: > I use 3/8" latex tubing from Lowes Hardware and LockTite glue. I > also leave the capstan on the motor during the repair. 4. http://www.voidware.com/calcs/hp85rep.htm I do not recommend heat shrink tubing as it tends to come off. Test the repair by retentioning a sacrificial tape (use the CTAPE command on the HP-85) two or three times in a row. If the tubing does not come off, then it'll probably stay put for a couple of years. If you are wondering what is the thickness of the rubber on the roller, the following picture is of an original HP roller with decayed coating still in place. http://www.series80.org/Pictures/HP85-TapeDriveCapstan.jpg **vp From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 22 06:13:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074772964.6027.59.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-01-22 at 04:21, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It's rare that I find a unique and interesting computer these days. This > Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer is one such. Apparently, it > was marketed in Japan because it has the Katakana (I think) character set > painted onto the keycap fronts, but otherwise is a standard QWERTY > keyboard layout. hehe I posted on the list about one not so long ago; I have one too :-) Possibly Japanese, possibly Chinese by the way. > I just can't verify this by booting it up because it has a very funky > power connector which requires an external power supply of some sort > (which I didn't get with this). Aha. For some *totally* unknown reason, mine came with both UK and US power supplies. I *think* I kept the US power supply even though I don't need it - if I can find it I can look into postage for you. I had two backplane units with Apple bus connectors on them; these plug into the expansion connector on the back of the Mitac and give it a proper bus for connecting standard Apple cards. Shout if you don't have that and I can have a look for my spare. I don't normally throw stuff out (especially not without offering it to the list first) but I have been doing a lot of thinning-down of stuff this last year, so no guarantees I have either any more :( The usenet posts below suggest I still had at least the second bus expansion board in the middle of last year though.. > Anyone ever heard of this? The web turns up empty. http://tinyurl.com/yq2ah prior to that the only info I could find on the web was that the darn thing existed :) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 22 06:33:25 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: <1074772964.6027.59.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1074772964.6027.59.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1074774157.6028.87.camel@weka.localdomain> Luckily I knew where the machine + the UK PSU was as I'd only moved those a few weeks ago :) Plug on the PSU side is as follows: +-------------------+ +-------------------+ | | | O x O O O | | | +-------------------+ -12 nc GND +12 +5 cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 22 06:39:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: XGA monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040122073936.0084cb80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think I might have an IBM video card and some drivers for XGA. Joe At 07:44 PM 1/21/04 -0800, you wrote: > >I just got in an XGA monitor. Now, I vaguely remember that this was a >precursor to SVGA. Correct? > >Is this worth saving from a historical point of view? I'm thinking yes. > >Here's some terse information: > >http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/X/XGA.html > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jan 22 08:05:11 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Advice on electrostatic deflection CRT ? In-Reply-To: <20040122043627.LNRE1899.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellso uth.net> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040122080255.0353cef8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 10:30 PM 1/21/2004 -0600, you wrote: >In message <200401212038.18544.finnegpt@purdue.edu>, Patrick Finnegan writes: > >Tom Uban declared on Wednesday 21 January 2004 07:15 pm: > >> http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe.jpg > >> http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/console_joe_tom.jpg > >> > >> I have a real keyboard to fill the hole. I am going to have to create > >> some new electronics as much has been stripped, but what a cool > >> project! > > > >Hah, I know where you got that from... I saw it there just a week or two > >ago. I'm glad that it went to a good home... I did't have anywhere > >near enough space to put it. > >Whoa! Are you saying that the console for the 6000 series >machine that PUCC had is just now leaving campus? I remember >when they decomissioned those machines around '89 or '90. >In fact, I snagged a couple of manuals that were sitting in >the hallway afterwards. > >By the way, do they still have those 205s and that ETA-10 >they had way back? I've got to figure they got rid of them >a while back, but you never know. Yep, the console had languished at salvage for more than a decade, in a back corner. Much of the electronics has been stripped, but the structure is pretty complete and the CRTs and much of the HV is still there. The 205 carcass is still there, being stripped for gold, no cards left, just backplane blocks and coaxial interconnect. I don't know what happened to the ETA-10, but I'm guessing it was sold. --tom From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 22 08:12:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: anyone want some TI 990 boards? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040122091238.0083c7a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found these. Does anyone want them? The socketed ICs have been pulled but otherwise they appear to be in good condition. TI 990/203A Memory card. HAD 16 4164s installed and 16 empty sockets. TM990/101MA CPU card. HAD a 9900 CPU, four 2114s, two 9902s and two 9904s installed. Joe From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Jan 22 10:30:36 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: You lucked out! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040121210648.0081d610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040121210648.0081d610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401220830360137.195C2CF2@192.168.42.129> Hi, Joe, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21-Jan-04 at 21:06 Joe R. wrote: >Bruce, > > Wahooo! Do you know if I can just plug this into any Unisite or does the >Unisite need any particular ROM, PAL, etc? It will work with any Unisite that uses the EARLY revision of controller board. It's very easy to tell. Open up your unit (you'll have to do so anyway to install the thing), and have a look at the main board itself. The later-revision boards have a single 72-pin 8MB SIMM installed in a socket somewhere on the board. The early revision boards do NOT have this. As far as installing the actual board: Remember when we met at Orlando, and I dissected that one unit? The expansion RAM board installs below the main board, between said board and the power supply, screwed down to some tabs built into the chassis. Don't forget: You need eight 30-pin, 9-chip, 1MB PARITY SIMMs. Non-parity won't work, 'emulated' parity won't work, and three-chip SIMMs will not work. Gotta use 9-chippers. Once you get that dealt with, simply connect the module to the main board with a 60-conductor flat cable (I know I left you the appropriate one from that other unit, along with the mounting hardware), and power up. Once the system boots, it should show the increased memory amount. Your next mission will be to locate the 'Pinsite' or 'Chipsite' bases (the Pinsite is a better investment), and the appropriate adapters. Happy hunting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From CPUMECH at aol.com Thu Jan 22 10:35:12 2004 From: CPUMECH at aol.com (CPUMECH@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 Message-ID: <71.39efbf3d.2d4155c0@aol.com> I have the following available: 8525-036 8530-021 8550-021 8560-071 8503 8513 Make a reasonable offer. Bob Dataterm, Inc. (781)938-1010 From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jan 22 11:18:34 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer References: Message-ID: <001301c3e10b$c7242330$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> I have a mitac laptop here somewhere.... from the 386 days.... ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:21 PM Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer > > It's rare that I find a unique and interesting computer these days. This > Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer is one such. Apparently, it > was marketed in Japan because it has the Katakana (I think) character set > painted onto the keycap fronts, but otherwise is a standard QWERTY > keyboard layout. > > The back connectors include: > > 1) Power > 2) Joystick (a 16-pin DIP socket mounted on its side!) > 3) Tape In > 4) Tape Out > 5) TV (the jack of an RF modulator) > 6) Expansion > 7) Drive 1 > 8) Drive 2 > 9) Printer > 10) Monitor (RCA type jack) > 11) 80 Column (RCA type jack) > > Now, as I typed this, I started to sense something familiar, especially > when I took into account the pin count on the disk drive connectors, and > especially with the joystick port. I do believe this is an Apple ][+ > clone. I opened it up and it has a 6502 and a Z80 onboard, with three > ROMs and lots of RAM chips, sort of like many ][+ clones I've seen (I have > at least a couple or three other ][+ clones with 6502 and Z80 on-board). > > I just can't verify this by booting it up because it has a very funky > power connector which requires an external power supply of some sort > (which I didn't get with this). > > Anyone ever heard of this? The web turns up empty. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jan 22 11:22:26 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:43 2005 Subject: wow! just got a IBM PC Luggable! More info?! References: Message-ID: <003101c3e10c$51191000$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> 6? that is a stack indeed! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 5:05 PM Subject: Re: wow! just got a IBM PC Luggable! More info?! > On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > the museum was just given a nice IBM PC that is a luggable... sort of = > > > > Is this the 5155 PortablePC? > > > > > like a compact! > > > have not seen many of these... are they scarce? would like to find any = > > > > I have one, but I don't think they're all that common. I also have the > > appropriate TechRefs. > > At least in my neck of the woods, 5155's are pretty common. I've got at > least 6. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 22 11:35:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: You lucked out! In-Reply-To: <200401220830360137.195C2CF2@192.168.42.129> References: <3.0.6.32.20040121210648.0081d610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040121210648.0081d610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040122123526.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bruce, I just replied to your other message. We'll see if it gets through. At 08:30 AM 1/22/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, Joe, > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 21-Jan-04 at 21:06 Joe R. wrote: > >>Bruce, >> >> Wahooo! Do you know if I can just plug this into any Unisite or does the >>Unisite need any particular ROM, PAL, etc? > > It will work with any Unisite that uses the EARLY revision of controller board. > > It's very easy to tell. Open up your unit (you'll have to do so anyway to install the thing), and have a look at the main board itself. The later-revision boards have a single 72-pin 8MB SIMM installed in a socket somewhere on the board. The early revision boards do NOT have this. > > As far as installing the actual board: Remember when we met at Orlando, and I dissected that one unit? The expansion RAM board installs below the main board, between said board and the power supply, screwed down to some tabs built into the chassis. > > Don't forget: You need eight 30-pin, 9-chip, 1MB PARITY SIMMs. Non-parity won't work, 'emulated' parity won't work, and three-chip SIMMs will not work. Gotta use 9-chippers. > > Once you get that dealt with, simply connect the module to the main board with a 60-conductor flat cable (I know I left you the appropriate one from that other unit, along with the mounting hardware), and power up. Once the system boots, it should show the increased memory amount. Great. Thanks. Now I just need to get one the Unisite's working! > > Your next mission will be to locate the 'Pinsite' or 'Chipsite' bases (the Pinsite is a better investment), and the appropriate adapters. I have a Site 40, a Site 48 and a Chipsite with all seven sockets on it :-) Joe > > Happy hunting. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 11:43:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: <1074758938.3302.2.camel@ernest> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Ernest wrote: > It is indeed an Apple II clone. I have pics of one on my website, > including the power supply. That's a great find. I'd love to get my > hands on one of those. What other clones do you have, Sellam? Perhaps we > should discuss a trade of some kind. Yes? Well, we tried before a few times but it never culminated in anything. In any case, I'm holding on to this. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 11:50:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: <1074772964.6027.59.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 22 Jan 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-01-22 at 04:21, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > It's rare that I find a unique and interesting computer these days. This > > Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer is one such. Apparently, it > > was marketed in Japan because it has the Katakana (I think) character set > > painted onto the keycap fronts, but otherwise is a standard QWERTY > > keyboard layout. > > hehe I posted on the list about one not so long ago; I have one too :-) Excellent! > Possibly Japanese, possibly Chinese by the way. I'm leaning towards Korean now. In fact, I was thinking Korean from the get go but that didn't jibe with my knowledge of Apple ][ clone history, but I'd just never heard of a Korean Apple ][ clone before. I'll wager it's Korean, which would make it even funkier. > Aha. For some *totally* unknown reason, mine came with both UK and US > power supplies. I *think* I kept the US power supply even though I don't > need it - if I can find it I can look into postage for you. Ah, excellent! > I had two backplane units with Apple bus connectors on them; these plug > into the expansion connector on the back of the Mitac and give it a > proper bus for connecting standard Apple cards. Shout if you don't have > that and I can have a look for my spare. I do not have that either and would certainly be grateful for one to complete this system. > The usenet posts below suggest I still had at least the second bus > expansion board in the middle of last year though.. > > > Anyone ever heard of this? The web turns up empty. > > http://tinyurl.com/yq2ah > > prior to that the only info I could find on the web was that the darn > thing existed :) Funny, this discussion didn't come up when I Googled on it. I guess I should start getting used to checking Google Groups as well, but I would think they would show relevant hits to Usenet discussions in their search results. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 11:51:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: <1074774157.6028.87.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 22 Jan 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Luckily I knew where the machine + the UK PSU was as I'd only moved > those a few weeks ago :) > > Plug on the PSU side is as follows: > > > +-------------------+ > +-------------------+ > | | > | O x O O O | > | | > +-------------------+ > > -12 nc GND +12 +5 Hmm, seems to be a standard ][+ supply. I'd still like the "official" supply though :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 11:54:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: <001301c3e10b$c7242330$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > I have a mitac laptop here somewhere.... from the 386 days.... Yep, me too. I just got one in the other day. I decided to keep it because it was just the slightest bit out of the ordinary. BTW, you have the Reply-To: set in your mailer as well. (I'm going to pick you guys off one at a time until I've got you all... ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jan 22 11:48:36 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <00b501c3e113$0749a140$e0514ed5@geoff> Signetics 8881 is 14 - Vcc 7 - Gnd 13 - o/p A 12&11 - i/p's A 10 - o/p B 8 & 9 - i/p's B 1 - o/p C 2&3 - i/p's C 4 - o/p D 5&6 - i/p's D Device is TTL. Info from old Quarndon Electronics Digital Intergrated Circuits Catalogue circa 1970's. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? > On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: > > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) > > Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? I "might" have a few of > them laying around that I could use right about now... If nothing > else, a pinout would be helpful. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jan 22 11:58:59 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de><200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236><5.1.1.6.0.20040121014815.042c9278@pop.freeserve.net><20040121020422.GD306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <00b601c3e113$0823d4a0$e0514ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:22 AM Subject: Re: Modern Tube computing > > > On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > > These devices work on aerodynamic principles - Bernoulli effects - and > boundary layer physics. For example, the flip/flop module used an internal > airfoil to guide a stream of incoming air through one of two adjacent > channels. The device was 'set' or 'reset' with a transverse stream > impingeing on the incoming 'main' stream, diverting it to the opposite > channel, where, due to capillary action and the boundary layer laws, Also utilised the Coanda effect ,where a flow of air will tend to stick to a surface until disturbed - utilised in a range of room heaters of the same name over here Geoff. > it stayed until it was set to the complement by another "puff" from the other > port. Bleed holes, or venturis, were then used to sense the direction of > flow. > Cheers > > John > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 22 12:15:12 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2004, at 11:54 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > BTW, you have the Reply-To: set in your mailer as well. > > (I'm going to pick you guys off one at a time until I've got you > all... ;) netcop Doc From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 22 12:19:58 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: anyone want some TI 990 boards? Message-ID: <200401221819.i0MIJwf3004424@spies.com> Don't need those, but if you should run across a WD800 disc/floppy box I could use anything down to just the chassis, backplane, and power supply From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 22 12:23:38 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Skew Tape on eBay Message-ID: Skew master 1/2" alignment tape, seems quite reasonable... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781808606&category=1247 Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 22 12:27:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <00b501c3e113$0749a140$e0514ed5@geoff> References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040122132731.0095f320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I missed the first part of this discussion and I just found this message by chance. However it is NOT TTL, it's DCL according to my 1971 Signetics Digital 8000 Series TTl/MSI catalog. Since it's not TTL this catalog doesn't have a data sheet for it but they do have a list of all of their ICs including the DCL ones and it's listed there. They say that it's a Quad 2-input NAND gate and that it's listed in the DCL supplement handbook. Joe At 05:48 PM 1/22/04 +0000, you wrote: >Signetics 8881 is > >14 - Vcc > 7 - Gnd > >13 - o/p A >12&11 - i/p's A > >10 - o/p B >8 & 9 - i/p's B > >1 - o/p C >2&3 - i/p's C > >4 - o/p D >5&6 - i/p's D > >Device is TTL. Info from old Quarndon Electronics Digital Intergrated >Circuits Catalogue circa 1970's. > >Geoff. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Patrick Finnegan" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:10 AM >Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? > > >> On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: >> > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) >> >> Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? I "might" have a few of >> them laying around that I could use right about now... If nothing >> else, a pinout would be helpful. >> >> Pat >> -- >> Purdue University ITAP/RCS >> Information Technology at Purdue >> Research Computing and Storage >> http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 22 12:33:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: anyone want some TI 990 boards? In-Reply-To: <200401221819.i0MIJwf3004424@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040122133304.007dfb90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'll keep my eyes open but I haven't seen anything like that. I found these in a pile of scrap boards and pulled the chips before I realized that they were standard boards. Joe At 10:19 AM 1/22/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Don't need those, but if you should run across a WD800 disc/floppy box >I could use anything down to just the chassis, backplane, and power supply > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 13:00:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Jan 22, 2004, at 11:54 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > > > BTW, you have the Reply-To: set in your mailer as well. > > > > (I'm going to pick you guys off one at a time until I've got you > > all... ;) > > netcop Hmm, you seem to be OK. >:) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Jan 22 13:10:15 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) In-Reply-To: <200401221546.i0MFkiiU087199@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401221546.i0MFkiiU087199@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: cctech-request@classiccmp.org schrieb am 22.01.2004: >Message: 29 >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:04:58 +0100 >From: Gooijen H >Subject: RE: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) >To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > >Message-ID: > <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0EC7@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I have scanned 11/34 field maintenance print sets. >They are at http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ >And if I am not mistaken the MOS memory is there too. >AFAIK is MS11 correct, just the suffix letter makes >all the difference (core, 11/44 MOS, etc.) MS11-xx is alway semiconductor memory of different capacities and speed as specified by the last two caracters (to the best of my knowledge...) MM11-xx are the true core memories with the ferrite cores. (Wanna see a MM11-YP, 32k x 18 core-stack? Then bump the cofee-machine) several years after Mos memory became available people were still talking about core if they just meant the mainstorage or R/W-Memory, regardless of the technology it was built with. > > gd luck, >- Henk, PA8PDP ^^^ Heh heh, on what frequency is it radiating? Do you remember the little proggys that would make a pdp produce sound on an AM-receiver not tuned to any station? >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brad Parker [mailto:brad@heeltoe.com] >> Sent: donderdag 22 januari 2004 1:18 >> To: arcarlini@iee.org; General Discussion: On-Topic and >> Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Re: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) >> >> >> "Antonio Carlini" wrote: >> >> Does anyone have a manual for an M7891 (128kx18 MOS memory)? >> > >> >Is that an MS11 of some sort? if it is 128kx18, then it is a MS11-LD, and has an integrated parity controller. I should have the maintenancemanual somwhere if it of use to anyone. I will sent a free copy to aomeone who likes to convert it to .pdf file to be put on-line. (Will have to dig it from the garage, however) Frank From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jan 22 13:59:22 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <01a401c3e122$3b2abc60$e0514ed5@geoff> Further to my earlier post the cross comparison does not show a direct equivalent for the N8881A in the Texas range. Only data given for the N8881A is : Tpd 16 nS PTOT 48 mW Stop press, Texas data book does give SN5401/SN7401 as a direct replacement for the 8881 - and the pinouts do match. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? > On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: > > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) > > Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? I "might" have a few of > them laying around that I could use right about now... If nothing > else, a pinout would be helpful. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 22 14:26:51 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 22 January 2004 17:51 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer > > Funny, this discussion didn't come up when I Googled on it. I guess I > should start getting used to checking Google Groups as well, but I would > think they would show relevant hits to Usenet discussions in their search > results. They do, and you'd be amazed at the things you can turn up! Quite a lot of my info has come grom google groups....all it takes is someone like you or me to ask a question on a relevant ng and it's archived, so even if nobody answers the question you've got a good chance of getting hold of the OP. Mind, GG goes right back to the beginning doesn't it, so sometimes contact might be impossible :) cheers w From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 22 14:35:31 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Cromemco SCC Eproms In-Reply-To: Joe Abbott "Re: Cromemco SCC Eproms" (Jan 21, 17:40) References: <20040122014015.50799.qmail@web41307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10401222035.ZM13016@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 17:40, Joe Abbott wrote: > Just my luck! Thanks anyway, Pete. Hopefully someone > out there will be able to help. I hope so! > I'd bet yours contains the code to disable the onboard > roms and jump to the floppy boot rom. My System Zero > manual mentions this and lists the asm code as well as > a hardware mod. Might be why there doesn't seem to be > many of these roms around. Could be. The first EPROM "lives" at 0000H so mine contains: 0000 3E 00 LD A, 0 0002 D3 23 OUT (23H), A ; dunno what this port does 0004 3E 01 LD A, 1 0006 D3 22 OUT (22H), A ; nor this one 0008 21 16 00 LD HL, 16H ; 22 000B 11 00 24 LD DE, 2400H ; 9216 or start of non-SCC memory 000E 01 07 00 LD BC, 7 0011 ED B0 LDIR ; copy 7 bytes from 0016-001C to 2400 0013 C3 00 24 JP 2400H ; and execute there 0016 3E 80 LD A, 80H ; set top bit 0018 D3 2A OUT (2AH), A ; don't even know this one 001A C3 00 C0 JP 0C000H ; start of RDOS? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jan 22 14:44:08 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vax 7000's a very pretty machines. We have one. Very modern and stylish. On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > Nobody wanted the VAX 7000, so I'll try to take some pictures > > > of it, before it visits the Evil Melter. > > > > Noone wants the boards ??? > Nope. Its a shame.. I had never even *seen* a VAX 7000... :( > > --f > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 22 15:10:48 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: scsi cables & peecee stuff wanted Message-ID: <001a01c3e12c$36196370$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I'm in need of two scsi cables, the ones with the 50 pin centronics connectors on both ends. One cable needs to be about 5 foot, the other cable needs to be about 1.5 feet. A 50 pin centronics terminator is needed too. Also looking for an AGP card that has a fairly mainstream chipset (so X11 will support it) that does 1024x768 in 32K colors. Nothing fancy. This stuff is only vaguely classic computer related in that I'm trying to finish off building a PC (AMD K6-2/450!) used to support my classic machines (for burning tapes, disks, etc.). Thanks! Jay West From maya2blue at juno.com Thu Jan 22 13:40:34 2004 From: maya2blue at juno.com (Harve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need docs Message-ID: <20040122.114102.10325.444310@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> I have ten Apple IIe's, a Corvus full of MECC and other software. I have a 4 drawer file cabinet full of Apple eucational software, and *lots* of extra Omninet Apple transporter cards, cables, and trunk adapters. Everythings works just fine. But..... I have no documentation for the Corvus hardware or software. The hardware specs are: Corvus model 74MB7 Rev C SN 398-GN9230-P The Apple cards "Corvus Systems Transporter 8010-10969 rev E" The adapters "Corvus Systems trunk adapters A 8010-12393 01" The cables are marked "OCS II TU 6010-078681-01 low voltage computer cable" The software is "Corvus Systems Constellation III V3.0" I need *both* the software and the hardware docs. Of course, I would certainly be glad to find either one! Any help locating these manuals, as well as any helpful hints, would be much appreciated. Many tks!! Harve Harve Thorn Fayetteville, AR ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 22 15:50:09 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need docs Message-ID: <200401222150.i0MLo9H2001855@spies.com> I have the Constellation III manual for the AII scanned, will try to get it on line at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/corvus in the next day or two. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 22 15:51:16 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: 4 PDP-11's found (plus RK05's) and VAX 7000 ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Vax 7000's a very pretty machines. We have one. Very modern and stylish. > I used to regularly work on a CI cluster of 'em; same cab design as used on the AlphaServer GS140 if memory serves, though I only built up, installed and commissioned one of those. Proud moment that was; it's a pity I was crashed into the following weekend and never got back to that place because of my injuries and time off work. Nothing serious apart from whiplash, bad back, concussion and pretty bad friction burns off the airbag and seatbelt mind, but enough to keep me off till that particular job was finished :-/ cheers PS I wouldn't be surprised if the place that had the CI cluster still has the VAXen even though I upgraded them to Alpha 4100s a few years ago. -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jan 22 16:15:43 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> <3.0.6.32.20040122132731.0095f320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <01f401c3e135$790394e0$e0514ed5@geoff> The difference must be the " N " on the front , but the heading on the page says " Signetics 8400/8800 Series TTL " . Obviously the Texas reference to the N8881 is for a later TTL device. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? > I missed the first part of this discussion and I just found this message > by chance. However it is NOT TTL, it's DCL according to my 1971 Signetics > Digital 8000 Series TTl/MSI catalog. Since it's not TTL this catalog > doesn't have a data sheet for it but they do have a list of all of their > ICs including the DCL ones and it's listed there. They say that it's a Quad > 2-input NAND gate and that it's listed in the DCL supplement handbook. > > Joe > > > At 05:48 PM 1/22/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Signetics 8881 is > > > >14 - Vcc > > 7 - Gnd > > > >13 - o/p A > >12&11 - i/p's A > > > >10 - o/p B > >8 & 9 - i/p's B > > > >1 - o/p C > >2&3 - i/p's C > > > >4 - o/p D > >5&6 - i/p's D > > > >Device is TTL. Info from old Quarndon Electronics Digital Intergrated > >Circuits Catalogue circa 1970's. > > > >Geoff. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:10 AM > >Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? > > > > > >> On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) > >> > >> Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? I "might" have a few of > >> them laying around that I could use right about now... If nothing > >> else, a pinout would be helpful. > >> > >> Pat > >> -- > >> Purdue University ITAP/RCS > >> Information Technology at Purdue > >> Research Computing and Storage > >> http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 22 16:37:51 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <01f401c3e135$790394e0$e0514ed5@geoff> References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> <3.0.6.32.20040122132731.0095f320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040122173751.00808500@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You're probably right. Even the Signetics catalog is confusing since both the TTL and DCL parts are 8xxx parts. There's not even an "N" to differentiate them in it. joe At 10:15 PM 1/22/04 +0000, Geoff wrote: >The difference must be the " N " on the front , but the heading on the page >says > > " Signetics 8400/8800 Series TTL " . Obviously the Texas reference to >the N8881 is for a later TTL device. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 6:27 PM >Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? > > >> I missed the first part of this discussion and I just found this message >> by chance. However it is NOT TTL, it's DCL according to my 1971 Signetics >> Digital 8000 Series TTl/MSI catalog. Since it's not TTL this catalog >> doesn't have a data sheet for it but they do have a list of all of their >> ICs including the DCL ones and it's listed there. They say that it's a >Quad >> 2-input NAND gate and that it's listed in the DCL supplement handbook. >> >> Joe >> >> >> At 05:48 PM 1/22/04 +0000, you wrote: >> >Signetics 8881 is >> > >> >14 - Vcc >> > 7 - Gnd >> > >> >13 - o/p A >> >12&11 - i/p's A >> > >> >10 - o/p B >> >8 & 9 - i/p's B >> > >> >1 - o/p C >> >2&3 - i/p's C >> > >> >4 - o/p D >> >5&6 - i/p's D >> > >> >Device is TTL. Info from old Quarndon Electronics Digital Intergrated >> >Circuits Catalogue circa 1970's. >> > >> >Geoff. >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Patrick Finnegan" >> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> > >> >Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:10 AM >> >Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? >> > >> > >> >> On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) >> >> >> >> Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? I "might" have a few of >> >> them laying around that I could use right about now... If nothing >> >> else, a pinout would be helpful. >> >> >> >> Pat >> >> -- >> >> Purdue University ITAP/RCS >> >> Information Technology at Purdue >> >> Research Computing and Storage >> >> http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ >> > >> > > > From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 16:47:32 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <400D8DAD.6030203@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <005701c3de0d$d667bdd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <400B41C0.9020700@jetnet.ab.ca> <1074583747.2296.21.camel@fiche> <20040120154516.GQ25723@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <400D8DAD.6030203@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1074811070.2896.32.camel@dhcp-250016> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 12:21, ben franchuk wrote: > > What appears to be the most expensive aspect of the project thus far? > > The sockets :) No sh*t! There are however plenty of computer tubes around, the 5xxx and 6xxx series. Since the clock is slow I chose high-speed dekatrons to generate the 20 bit times (bit0 - bit 17, dead0, dead1), and clock and memory busses would probably require some 6L6's as cathode followers, that sort of stuff, but most of the tubes are available and with sufficient design margins, not hard to keep running. A major problem in ye olden dayes were crappy power supplies. I figured I'm use 100% solid-state power with a PIC to do sequencing and control, which matters a lot for reliable tube stuff. Let's not be tooo pedantic... :-) From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jan 22 16:41:31 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org><3.0.6.32.20040122132731.0095f320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <01f401c3e135$790394e0$e0514ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <023701c3e138$e2669e20$e0514ed5@geoff> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 15:21:54 CST From: Douglas W. Jones Message-Id: <9402242121.AA04487@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu Subject: Rare chips Status: RO X-Status: I've recently spent some time in the library using their CDROM catalog of all IC and discrete components currently made on earth. In the process, I've uncovered sources that the catalog, at least, lists as current manufacturers of a number of chips that aren't exactly common but are needed to keep Omnibus machines alive and running: Lansdale Semiconductor seems to have inherited most of Signetics discontinued stuff, including the Utilogic (SP) series, and the Signetics 8000 series. 314 - 7 input nor gate 317 - dual 4 input expandable nor gate 380 - quad 2-input nor gate 384 - quad 2-input or gate 8250 - binary to octal decoder 8251 - BCD to decimal decoder 8881 - quad 2-input nand gate Note, on the 380, that Signetics came out with the 8T380 somewhat later, and that this is a pin for pin replacement with schmidt trigger inputs (the original SP380 didn't have schmidt trigger inputs). Phillips is listed as the current manufacturer of the 8T380. Both Lansdale and Phillips have lots of local distributors. The most interesting chip I tracked down is the MH8641; the database lists one remaining manufacturer for this chip, Tesla Elektronicke, 756 61 Roznov Pod, Radhostem, Czechoslovakia (beats me what the velvet revolution did to that postal address; is it the modern Czech replblik or the modern Slovak republic). I haven't placed any orders, so I don't know if you can actually get any of these chips. I also haven't been able to track down data sheets for any of them (although I did get the 8T380 data sheet). Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu I found the above reference whilst googling - have Iowa still got that cd-rom ? Also the following Additionally, most output drivers where originally selected 7401 chips noted by a leading select digit of 9 (97401). This was upgraded to the 8881, which is also a popular Q-bus driver. In fact, there is an additional chip used as a bidirectional driver called 8641, that combines some of the functionality of both the 8881 and 8640. It's used is the MM-8AB memory, and many Q-bus cards. @ http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/usenet/al t.sys.pdp8/9211.asp Geoff. > > >> On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: > > >> > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) > > >> > > >> Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? I "might" have a few of > > >> them laying around that I could use right about now... If nothing > > >> else, a pinout would be helpful. > > >> > > >> Pat > > >> -- > > >> Purdue University ITAP/RCS > > >> Information Technology at Purdue > > >> Research Computing and Storage > > >> http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > > > > > > > From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 16:55:14 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074811539.2896.39.camel@dhcp-250016> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 15:50, William Donzelli wrote: > Have you obtained all of the tubes you need? I noticed on your websight > you mention using "Red Series" tubes. As you probably figured out, those > (RCA Red Line or Bendix Red Bank) are pretty expensive. THe electronic design was abandoned for now. Basically I was to (will...?) build a 4 x 4 switched cap memory which will be a nice reality check on flops, tubes, etc. Also, I chased down and read the exhaustive life-testing book the US Mil sponsored (forget the title) in the early 60's re: tube reliability. Though it applied specifically to subminis, it quantified what the computing people knew: derate, derate, derate. They got easily 16,000 hours from selected devices. The suspected more was easily possible, but that was the extend of their testing. It was interesting that some devices worked better/longer at slightly elevated Vff. Also, if you look at general tube electronic environments throughout the 50's, excepting the smartest stuff (Tek scopes etc) the power supplies are total crap. Unregulated and unsequenced. That did a lot of harm. It was fine for radios but not for "high speed" switching where margins started to matter. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 22 16:45:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040122174511.0080ac20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> joe From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 16:59:17 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074811781.2567.44.camel@dhcp-250016> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 16:03, William Donzelli wrote: > > Have we forgotten John Zabolitzky's MUNIAC? > > No, but I haven't heard anything about it since the initial flurry of > activity. I too will have to goolg this, never hoida dat. > One thing I would find very interesting is making a tube computer (or > rather just the building blocks) using technology from 1930. Relays! Computing with 201s? EEEEaaagh... I have a digital clock built entirely from "sensitive" relays. T-type flip flops cascaded, decimal decoder built from steppers (yes, you could do the whole clock w/4 steppers but what's the point). You can actually see and hear ripple carry ripple! It's all bakelite, nickel, redwood, fabric wire, brass thumbscrews, etc. THe display is stacked glass sheets with numbers etched, with lamps illuminating the edges (sound familiar). Not built yet, but I have an old NLS display as standin. Timebase is of course ... a pendulum! (No devices w/gain aloowed other than relays). CdS cell for pickoff. Not built yet. From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 17:03:18 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <20040121011250.GB306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <200401192035.PAA10449@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <400CF362.C747782C@cs.ubc.ca> <1074630416.1837.70.camel@dhcp-251236> <20040121011250.GB306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1074812023.2566.49.camel@dhcp-250016> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 17:12, R. D. Davis wrote: > My preference is for a digital computer using water instead of > electricity, but no one's mentioned one of those yet. Umm, Frank Holmquist, who works for Ed Grothus (Los ALamos Sales Co, 505-662-5053) makes hydraulic logic elements... apparently some amazing and beautiful water art and digital stuff. It's a weird world if you look for it :-) Tell him I sent you. From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 17:09:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1074812366.2566.56.camel@dhcp-250016> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 17:14, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 01:44:52PM -0700: > > So are TUBE computers better? > > Theoretically, they could be faster than solid state computers. Aww come on, tubes suck! First off, a cloud of decidedly non-relativistic electrons has to travel a SIGNIFICANT fraction of an inch. The elements are HUGE massive capacitors (even nuvistors have at least a couple pF element to element). Read about the Miller Effect. It's hard to make tubes run (logic) at one motorcycle. The element areas are such that electrons leave from different distances on their way to the plate that it causes essentially multipath problems! Plus, their physical size makes circuit-length a major problem. Speed-of-light-in-metal is a limit speed factor in today's chips, and is one of the things that Seymour figured out how to deal with in his Cray machines. Even tubes consuming 1/100th the volume are still huge. Never mind filaments. Filaments! Vff! Tubes are fun, but they're not really any good for anything useful (and I don't want to hear from any audio tube nuts :-) tomj From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 17:25:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: <023701c3e138$e2669e20$e0514ed5@geoff> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > I found the above reference whilst googling - have Iowa still got that > cd-rom ? E-mail Doug Jones and ask him: jones@cs.uiowa.edu -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 22 17:21:34 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards?" (Jan 22, 13:27) References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> <3.0.6.32.20040122132731.0095f320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10401222321.ZM13168@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 13:27, Joe R. wrote: > I missed the first part of this discussion and I just found this message > by chance. However it is NOT TTL, it's DCL according to my 1971 Signetics > Digital 8000 Series TTl/MSI catalog. Since it's not TTL this catalog > doesn't have a data sheet for it > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:10 AM > >Subject: Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards? > > > > > >> On Tuesday 20 January 2004 18:06, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > Driver : 8881 (quad 2 input NAND with open collector outputs) > >> > >> Does anyone have a spec sheet on the 8881's? The essential data is in the back of most QBus handbooks, along with data for 8640 and 8641. 8881 is a quad 2-input NAND bus driver. 8640 is a quad 2-input NOR bus receiver, 8641 is a quad bus transceiver. The driver outputs are open-collector. Bus Driver 8881, 8641: Input high voltage Vih 2.0V min Input low voltage Vil 0.8V max Input high current Iih 60uA max [note 6] Input low current Iih -2.0mA max [note 6] Output low voltage, 70mA sink Vol 0.8V max [note 1] Output high leakage current at 3.5V Ioh 25uA max [notes 1,3] Propagation delay to low state Tpdl 25ns max [notes 1,5] Propagation delay to high state Tpdh 35ns max [notes 1,5] 1. This is a critical parameter for use on the I/O bus. All other parameters ar shown for reference only. 2. This is equivalent to being capable of driving 16 unit loads of standard 7400 series TTL integrated circuits. 3. Current flow is defined as positive if into the terminal. 4. Conditions of load are 390 ohms to +5V and and 1.6 k ohms in paralel with 15pF to ground for 10ns min and 50pF for 35ns max. 5. Times are measured from 1.5V level on input to 1.5V level on output. 6. This is equivalent to 1.25 standard TTL unit loading of input. 8881 Pinout: ___ ___ | U | Y1 |1 14| Vcc A1 |2 13| Y4 B1 |3 12| A4 Y2 |4 11| B4 A2 |5 10| Y3 B2 |6 9| A3 GND |7 8| B3 |_______| While I was looking up my NatSemi Interface databook, I notice it lists the DS8640 as an exact replacement for an SP380 (quad 2-input NOR bus receiver), and an 8T380 is the same thing. An 8881 is very similar to a 7401. The main difference is that bus drivers can typically sink 50mA Iol or so at Vol, whereas a 7401 is only rated for 16mA -- about half what you would expect to need. The speeds are about the same: 7401 has faster Tpdl (15ns max versus 25ns max), but slightly slower Tphl (typically 35ns, max 45ns, albeit for a slightly lower threshold of 1.3V, versus 35ns max for 1.5V thresholds). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 22 17:24:35 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: Doc Shipley "Re: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer" (Jan 22, 12:15) References: Message-ID: <10401222324.ZM13171@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 12:15, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Jan 22, 2004, at 11:54 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > > > BTW, you have the Reply-To: set in your mailer as well. > > > > (I'm going to pick you guys off one at a time until I've got you > > all... ;) > > netcop Maybe we should all turn on our "Reply-To:" headers and see what happens. We could all set them to "vcf@siconic.com" so the results can be properly monitored ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 17:38:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: <1074811781.2567.44.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: On 22 Jan 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 16:03, William Donzelli wrote: > > > Have we forgotten John Zabolitzky's MUNIAC? > > > > No, but I haven't heard anything about it since the initial flurry of > > activity. > > I too will have to goolg this, never hoida dat. Here's a brief write-up of VCF Europa 1.0 where John exhibited the MUNIAC: http://www.gaby.de/helvinte.htm John also exhibited part of the system at VCF 3.0 in 1999: http://www.vintage.org/exhibit99.html (4th photo down on the right) Here's a picture of the entire system as exhibited at VCF Europa in 2000: http://www.gaby.de/vcfpics/04.jpg I think John put the project away for now. Hopefully he'll have time to pick it back up and finish it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 22 17:48:59 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074812366.2566.56.camel@dhcp-250016> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <1074812366.2566.56.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: <20040122234432.GQ306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tom Jennings, from writings of Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 02:59:27PM -0800: > Aww come on, tubes suck! No, they don't. They get sucked so that they contain a vacuum. > Tubes are fun, but they're not really any good for anything useful (and > I don't want to hear from any audio tube nuts :-) Aside from them being useful for audio equipment, like the ring modulator that I'm building that uses tubes, they're also very useful in electronic test equipment (e.g., VTVMs, TEK 500 series 'scopes, etc.), etc. Tube circuits are also fun to create and work with; more fun than solid-state. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Thu Jan 22 17:14:32 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Looking for Claris AtEase software for classic macs Message-ID: <200401222314.QAA02448@atlantis.clogic-int.com> See subject line. -- John Willis Coherent Logic Development willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From dholland at woh.rr.com Thu Jan 22 17:44:59 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Quicky SGI Question (skin removal) In-Reply-To: <1074465990.12247.13.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <1074465990.12247.13.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <1074815099.2328.4.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> FWIW, (and the archives....) You pull them straight off. Hard. Harder than you'd probably like to. Of course, I did end up pulling not only the power supply, the backplane, the lower cardcage tray, and the lower fan tray. After that, there isn't much left. But w/ some help from the wife it was carried back downstairs w/ out much difficulty. Now I wonder if I can put "Humpty-Dumpty" all back together again.. :-) David On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 17:46, David Holland wrote: > Hi, > > A quick question (should even be on topic... theoretically... ) > > I've a SGI Crimson, in a older PowerSeries 4D frame that I need to move > from upstairs to downstairs. > > Looks alot like so: http://www.schrotthal.de/sgi/4d/440_powerseries.jpg > > Anyways, cause its little ol' me, I need to get it as light as possible, > so I don't kill myself (or drop it) trying to get it down the stairs. > > I did _completely_ disassemble the thing to dust it, and get it upstairs > in the first place. > > I've already pulled the boards/drives which relieves a lot of the > weight, however, I also want to pull the PSU to relieve its weight, then > hopefully I can carry the "carcass" downstairs by myself. > > However, for the life of me, I can't remember how the devil I got the > skins off to get access to the PSU. (And I'm still "googling") > > Anyone know? > > Thanks, > > David > > PS: If this isn't quite on topic, my apologies, I'll quietly go back to > poking and prodding... > > PPS: If it is on topic, and anyone has a set of proper red Crimson skins > they'd like to unload, please let me know. :-) From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 22 17:45:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de><400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca><20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org><1074812366.2566.56.camel@dhcp-250016> <20040122234432.GQ306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002301c3e141$cda0b0d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I really enjoy containing a vacuum *ROTF* From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 17:50:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: <10401222324.ZM13171@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 22, 12:15, Doc Shipley wrote: > > On Jan 22, 2004, at 11:54 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > > > > > BTW, you have the Reply-To: set in your mailer as well. > > > > > > (I'm going to pick you guys off one at a time until I've got you > > > all... ;) > > > > netcop > > Maybe we should all turn on our "Reply-To:" headers and see what > happens. We could all set them to "vcf@siconic.com" so the results can > be properly monitored ;-) Hey, that would be fun! Equally fun would be for me to modify my .procmailrc to send any spam message I get to each individual Reply-To addressed message I receive ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 17:51:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: Modern Tube computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: More pictures of the MUNIAC: http://www.travelnotes.de/computer/vcfe/muniac.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 22 18:10:41 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040122174511.0080ac20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. > Sent: 22 January 2004 22:45 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board > > > egory=40004> I like his opening spiel....if the Ts&Cs allow him to do that I might start doing that with my own auctions! Though at the minute I need any money I can get :-/ cheers w From lists at microvax.org Thu Jan 22 18:19:08 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401230019.08766.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 23 Jan 2004 12:10 am, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. > > Sent: 22 January 2004 22:45 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board > > > > > > > egory=40004> > > I like his opening spiel....if the Ts&Cs allow him to do that I might > start doing that with my own auctions! Though at the minute I need any > money I can get :-/ I do too. I've put in for a fiver... alex/melt From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jan 22 18:31:51 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: mac clone Message-ID: <028e01c3e148$4bebdef0$0500fea9@game> Any idea what a Unitron mac512 clone from brazil would be worth these days? Someone in a mac forum I belong to is looking for one and they are pretty rare. http://www.lowendmac.com/clones/unitron.html From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 22 18:40:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. > > Sent: 22 January 2004 22:45 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board > > > > > > > egory=40004> > > I like his opening spiel....if the Ts&Cs allow him to do that I might start > doing that with my own auctions! Though at the minute I need any money I can > get :-/ Heck, just use the Vintage Computer Marketplace! We've got an anti-sniping feature built-in! http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jan 22 19:56:18 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:44 2005 Subject: ^^^^ what reply to explain?****Re: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer References: Message-ID: <002801c3e154$1812e5e0$f49daeac@aoldsl.net> ^^^^ what reply to explain?**** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > > I have a mitac laptop here somewhere.... from the 386 days.... > > Yep, me too. I just got one in the other day. I decided to keep it > because it was just the slightest bit out of the ordinary. > > BTW, you have the Reply-To: set in your mailer as well. > > (I'm going to pick you guys off one at a time until I've got you all... ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 19:08:05 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation In-Reply-To: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1074819509.2566.61.camel@dhcp-250016> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 21:40, der Mouse wrote: > It's an RCA reference book from 1963, and it contains a lot of data on > various types of vacuum tubes and semiconductor devices of the day, > from vacuum tubes still in use today like the 6L6 I think I saw > mentioned recently to picture tubes (even a few colour types) to tube > types I've never heard of like "nuvistor" and "novar". If the cover sez "RCA Receiving Tubes" it's a reasonably available book, and even reprinted. There's a number att he bottom, RC-18 or something like that, there's versions up to RC-39 (or whatever the prefix is). If it's some obscure industrial types the data could be hard-to-find. I have a lot of non-receiving tube data available in original (sic) form at http://wps.com/archives/tube-datasheets/index.html, and a bunch of semiconductor datasheets at http://wps.com/archives/index.html, all indexed by device number. What with the ads you say it has it's likely not just an RCA tube manual. I wouldn't want to part with it either, lots o'pretty pictures and cool tech culture stuff. > There are a > number of cross-reference tables of various things, indexed by various > useful things. There is a pile of somewhat similar information about > semiconductor devices (though a good deal less in terms of pages in the > book) and a number of pages on batteries. There are then several pages > of ads for devices like multimeters and oscilloscopes and signal > generators, ending with a calendar for 1963 and a few pages of > address-book. There are a few mildly interesting one-page things, like > one giving a number of RCA sales offices, complete with phone numbers > like "WHitehall 4-2900". > > I would take a good deal of persuading to part with the book itself. > But if anyone is interested in data from it, including scans of various > portions, drop me a line. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 22 18:57:00 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <1074812366.2566.56.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: <4010715C.1080900@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > Tubes are fun, but they're not really any good for anything useful (and > I don't want to hear from any audio tube nuts :-) > You are too late for that ... LONG LIVE TUBE AUDIO! ... PS. I find the many modern tube amps, have crappy power supplies too as well as tube computers. The tube amp I am building has a real regulated ( solid state ) power supply. Ben. From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 19:20:59 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074820283.2896.75.camel@dhcp-250016> On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 22:04, William Donzelli wrote: > In theory, computing tubes would not use much power at all, so one could > space the cathode-grid-plate structure very close, and get the super > speeds due to the very short distances involved. Well with gate::emitter separated by fractions of a micron, I don't know how any theoretical tube would improve on that. I know the path an electron or hole travels is somewhat brownian, hence longer, still, it's pretty small! Also, you need a source of electrons; in semiconductor stuff it's done at the factory (more or less) by creating doped materials with low quantum thresholds, such that mere voltage difference is enough to move them around. With tubes, you gotta heat the miserable things up to fling electrons loose, and to get enough electrons, yuo need a lot of metal (though as you point out part this would scale very well). > So, in a perfect world, with no capacitance or power problems, tubes > would be great. Another way to think of tubes is big delicate airy capacitors with heat in the middle. They sure look cool though, and things like big 811's, the very idea that the carbon plate is glowing cherry red merely from SLOW ELECTRON BOMBARDMENT! is Very Cool! From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 22 19:15:21 2004 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: 2057400 from Televideo 910 Terminal - try again In-Reply-To: <400D355E.8070704@verizon.net> References: <400D355E.8070704@verizon.net> Message-ID: <401075A9.4030403@verizon.net> Eric Chomko wrote: > > I pulled it from a Televideo 910 terminal logic board. It is a 40 pin > DIP with no other markings except a 1983 date code. Also, this chip is > NOT in the manual for the TVI 910 on the page describing the board > components. It seems that my (actually 2) terminal logic boards are > later versions than what is described in the manual. The manual has > no mention of the 2057400 chip but my terminals both use it. My problem, > other than having no idea what the IC does, is that I have only one > chip. Both terminals work. > > Eric > > From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 19:25:31 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <1074820556.2567.79.camel@dhcp-250016> I do think one possible area of unexplored power-microwave tube development might be a space-borne sun-heated filament magnetron or something. Big collector on one side, fins on the other. I'm not a tube nut, I just researched them for various projects. I don't believe in illuminati conspiracies and 100 mpg carburetors either! tomj On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 01:31, Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > William Donzelli said: > > > > ...this sounds as though it's the converse; this sounds as though tube > > > transit times are inconveniently _high_. > > > > > > So I don't get it. > > > > In theory, computing tubes would not use much power at all, so one could > > space the cathode-grid-plate structure very close, and get the super > > speeds due to the very short distances involved. Imagine tubes as small > > today's transistors - the speeds would be fantastic, as the electrons > > would speed right thru the micron of vacuum much faster that a micron of > > silicon. > > > > However, the real world hits the tubes far before element spacing gets > > this tiny. The breakdown voltage between the cathode and plate probably > > hits first - too close, and the electrons will simply jump over on their > > own, like a spark. Likewise, with very short distances, capacitance will > > become a big issue. The best conventional tubes top out somewhere around 4 > > GHz, and these were only good for small amounts of power. They were a > > bastard to build, as well. > > > > So, in a perfect world, with no capacitance or power problems, tubes > > would be great. > > See http://www.triodeel.com/area51.htm - if it still works. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 22 19:18:33 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 23 January 2004 00:41 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: E-bay: Transputer development board > > > On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. > > > Sent: 22 January 2004 22:45 > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: E-bay: Transputer development board > > > > > > > > > > > egory=40004> > > > > I like his opening spiel....if the Ts&Cs allow him to do that I > might start > > doing that with my own auctions! Though at the minute I need > any money I can > > get :-/ > > Heck, just use the Vintage Computer Marketplace! We've got an > anti-sniping feature built-in! Oops, you've reminded me I promised to do that with the PDP books that didn't sell in my last clearance, ie all of them! cheers w From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 22 19:27:46 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074820691.2896.81.camel@dhcp-250016> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 07:34, William Donzelli wrote: > > See http://www.triodeel.com/area51.htm - if it still works. > > About every three years, micro tubes are announced as a huge breakthough > that will revolutionize the computer industry. I think we are due for > another announcement. And it's a great announcement every time! Now all we need are some sample devices :-) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 22 19:28:47 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers References: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> <1074820556.2567.79.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: <401078CF.9000508@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > I do think one possible area of unexplored power-microwave tube > development might be a space-borne sun-heated filament magnetron or > something. Big collector on one side, fins on the other. Now what I want is a solar powered anti-matter production plant in solar orbit. Ben. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Jan 22 20:10:42 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <4010715C.1080900@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20040119163152.B29045@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> <400D9344.2090409@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040121011443.GC306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <1074812366.2566.56.camel@dhcp-250016> <4010715C.1080900@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <401082A2.9040101@4mcnabb.net> ben franchuk wrote: > Tom Jennings wrote: > >> Tubes are fun, but they're not really any good for anything useful (and >> I don't want to hear from any audio tube nuts :-) >> > You are too late for that ... LONG LIVE TUBE AUDIO! ... > Amen to that. My current motherboard (AOpen AX4B-533TUBE) has a vacuum tube audio pre-amp on it. You also can't beat tubes for high output RF amplifiers. My Ham rig consists of a Kenwood TS520 (3 tubes) hooked to an Ameritron 400W amplifier (4 Tubes). From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 22 20:39:04 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074820691.2896.81.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: > And it's a great announcement every time! > > Now all we need are some sample devices :-) Just like the announcement that core memory is coming back in chip form. Well, maybe. At least someone shipped samples about ten years ago (Ramtron? I have one somewhere). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 22 20:42:56 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074820283.2896.75.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: > Another way to think of tubes is big delicate airy capacitors with heat > in the middle. They sure look cool though, and things like big 811's, > the very idea that the carbon plate is glowing cherry red merely from > SLOW ELECTRON BOMBARDMENT! is Very Cool! If you think 811s are big, you need to get out more. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 22 20:45:27 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation In-Reply-To: <1074819509.2566.61.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: > If the cover sez "RCA Receiving Tubes" it's a reasonably available book, > and even reprinted. There's a number att he bottom, RC-18 or something > like that, there's versions up to RC-39 (or whatever the prefix is). If > it's some obscure industrial types the data could be hard-to-find. Dowd archive. RCAs (almost) complete tube engineering library from the beginning of time. If you have a question, you can post a query to the TCA (Tube Collectors Association) list. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 22 20:54:16 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need docs Message-ID: <200401230254.i0N2sGZ1014989@spies.com> The Constellation III manuals for the Apple II and Mac are now on line at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/corvus If someone happens to have release 2.0 or later of the CIII software for the Mac, I could use a copy. It should be three floppies. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 22 21:01:45 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074811539.2896.39.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: > THe electronic design was abandoned for now. Basically I was to > (will...?) build a 4 x 4 switched cap memory which will be a nice > reality check on flops, tubes, etc. Please keep us informed. > Also, I chased down and read the exhaustive life-testing book the US Mil > sponsored (forget the title) in the early 60's re: tube reliability. > Though it applied specifically to subminis, it quantified what the > computing people knew: derate, derate, derate. They got easily 16,000 > hours from selected devices. Subminis might also be a good choice, if you can find them. They "never" go bad. I don't think I have ever found a bad one. Their reliabilty was due to production in a clean room environment using very high purity materials. One interesting side effect was that submini tubes lost their sockets - the things were soldered right into the circuits, as the sockets became the most failure prone components. Most computer tubes were also built in the same clean room environment, and also tended to be very reliable. In the good old tube computer days, there would be a flurry of tube swapping for the first few months, maybe a year, of the computer's life, but then as the weakling runt tubes were purged, the machines became quite reliable. > The suspected more was easily possible, but > that was the extend of their testing. It was interesting that some > devices worked better/longer at slightly elevated Vff. The biggest advancement was the use of the IERC tube shields - the type that have ribbing inside to conduct the heat away. It took ten years, but the industry finally figured out the old style tube shields were a really dumb idea. > Also, if you look at general tube electronic environments throughout the > 50's, excepting the smartest stuff (Tek scopes etc) the power supplies > are total crap. Unregulated and unsequenced. That did a lot of harm. It > was fine for radios but not for "high speed" switching where margins > started to matter. The military radar things, specifically for IFF systems, had good power supplies. They were digital system, after all (specifially SIF encoders and decoders). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 22 21:06:52 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074811070.2896.32.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: > No sh*t! There are however plenty of computer tubes around, the 5xxx and > 6xxx series. Since the clock is slow I chose high-speed dekatrons to > generate the 20 bit times (bit0 - bit 17, dead0, dead1), and clock and > memory busses would probably require some 6L6's as cathode followers, 6L6s may give you prolems - they are not computer rated (although for a clock, it should not be a problem). 6005s (computer 6AQ5) is a good choice. Cheap, too. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tarsi at binhost.com Thu Jan 22 21:24:38 2004 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Nathan E. Pralle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: For Pickup: Sun 386i, NJ Area In-Reply-To: <000701c3d96d$7f2bb7a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <000701c3d96d$7f2bb7a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200401222124.38712@210> In northern NJ, near to Morristown: Can you provide a Sun 386i with a good home? System: 386i-250 (CPU 25MHz, 8MB RAM) (vintage: 1989) Hard drive: 600 MB (CDC WREN V) Monitor: GDM-1604-15 (Sony Trinitron, 16") Keyboard: Type 4, with optical mouse. Tape drive: model Exp-1 (6" x 4" cartridge, 1/4 inch tape) Documentation: complete set. Machine is in working condition except for minor problems: diskette drive is temperamental, power supply for tape drive has failed, TOD clock battery needs replacement. RS232 port is functional, status of parallel port and ethernet port is unknown. Please contact me off-list at tarsi@binhost.com and I will put you in contact with the owner. Tarsi From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 22 19:55:00 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Old device (eg vacuum tube) documentation In-Reply-To: <1074819509.2566.61.camel@dhcp-250016> References: <200401210610.BAA08769@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1074819509.2566.61.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: <200401230400.XAA00873@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> It's an RCA reference book from 1963, and it contains [...] > If the cover sez "RCA Receiving Tubes" it's a reasonably available > book, and even reprinted. There's a number att he bottom, RC-18 or > something like that, there's versions up to RC-39 (or whatever the > prefix is). If it's some obscure industrial types the data could be > hard-to-find. It's not "RCA Receiving Tubes". "RCA Reference Book", maybe. It's small, about three inches by six, some 340 pages. I scanned the front cover and the title page; the resulting jpeg files are up for anonymous ftp from ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca in /mouse/misc/rca-book/ under the names cover.jpg and title.jpg. For size reference, the scans are at 100 pixels to the inch. > What with the ads you say it has it's likely not just an RCA tube > manual. I wouldn't want to part with it either, lots o'pretty > pictures and cool tech culture stuff. And for me, rather sentimental; it has been my reference for tube pinouts and heater parameters for as long as I've been doing electronics - I was doing tubes before I started doing solid state. But no, it's not just tubes. The receiving tubes section is perhaps the largest single section, but it's only one of about a dozen sections, and is no more than about 1/5 of the book. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 22 23:29:03 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > THe electronic design was abandoned for now. Basically I was to > > (will...?) build a 4 x 4 switched cap memory which will be a nice > > reality check on flops, tubes, etc. > > Please keep us informed. > > > Also, I chased down and read the exhaustive life-testing book the US Mil > > sponsored (forget the title) in the early 60's re: tube reliability. > > Though it applied specifically to subminis, it quantified what the > > computing people knew: derate, derate, derate. They got easily 16,000 > > hours from selected devices. > > Subminis might also be a good choice, if you can find them. They "never" > go bad. I don't think I have ever found a bad one. Their reliabilty was > due to production in a clean room environment using very high purity > materials. One interesting side effect was that submini tubes lost their > sockets - the things were soldered right into the circuits, as the sockets > became the most failure prone components. IIRC, submini tubes were initially developed for use in proximity fuses for anti-aircraft ammunition in WWII. I recall seeing some during the early '40s that my Dad brought home from work - and then took back. No need for sockets in a one use projectile! - don > Most computer tubes were also built in the same clean room environment, > and also tended to be very reliable. In the good old tube computer days, > there would be a flurry of tube swapping for the first few months, maybe > a year, of the computer's life, but then as the weakling runt tubes were > purged, the machines became quite reliable. > > > The suspected more was easily possible, but > > that was the extend of their testing. It was interesting that some > > devices worked better/longer at slightly elevated Vff. > > The biggest advancement was the use of the IERC tube shields - the type > that have ribbing inside to conduct the heat away. It took ten years, but > the industry finally figured out the old style tube shields were a really > dumb idea. > > > Also, if you look at general tube electronic environments throughout the > > 50's, excepting the smartest stuff (Tek scopes etc) the power supplies > > are total crap. Unregulated and unsequenced. That did a lot of harm. It > > was fine for radios but not for "high speed" switching where margins > > started to matter. > > The military radar things, specifically for IFF systems, had good power > supplies. They were digital system, after all (specifially SIF encoders > and decoders). > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jan 22 23:59:45 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: <1074811539.2896.39.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: <20040123055222.GS306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 10:01:45PM -0500: > materials. One interesting side effect was that submini tubes lost their > sockets - the things were soldered right into the circuits, as the sockets > became the most failure prone components. One could always design some sort of spring-loaded sockets for them in order to make them as useful as real tubes/valves. Without sockets, circuitry containing them would be as annoying to repair as circuits using non-socketed ICs. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 22 23:58:21 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <20040123055222.GS306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > One could always design some sort of spring-loaded sockets for them in > order to make them as useful as real tubes/valves. Without sockets, > circuitry containing them would be as annoying to repair as circuits > using non-socketed ICs. Very true, but the truth is that the damn things just never die. Never common outside the government, these days subminis can be a little difficult to find. Most of the time they are pretty cheap ($1 tubes, NIB, at some lucky hamfests), simply because nobody needs them! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Jan 23 01:14:56 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0ECC@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Correct. MM is for core, MS is for chips. I was too lazy to check what I was writing. I even have MM11-LP (96 kWords) in my 11/35. I passed the morse code exam last December, and since I had to choose a new call, the postfix PDP seemed a nice one. "PDP" in morse code is not the best choice, but I just could not resist. I am not active on HF, waiting until Spring to install a antenna (aerial). nice weekend all, - Henk > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Arnold [mailto:fm.arnold@gmx.net] > Sent: donderdag 22 januari 2004 20:10 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) > > > >From: Gooijen H > >Subject: RE: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) > > > >I have scanned 11/34 field maintenance print sets. > >They are at http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ > >And if I am not mistaken the MOS memory is there too. > >AFAIK is MS11 correct, just the suffix letter makes > >all the difference (core, 11/44 MOS, etc.) > > MS11-xx is alway semiconductor memory of different capacities > and speed as specified by the last two caracters > (to the best of my knowledge...) > > MM11-xx are the true core memories with the ferrite cores. > (Wanna see a MM11-YP, 32k x 18 core-stack? Then bump the > cofee-machine) > > several years after Mos memory became available people were > still talking about core if they just meant the mainstorage > or R/W-Memory, regardless of the technology it was built with. > > > > > gd luck, > >- Henk, PA8PDP > ^^^ > Heh heh, on what frequency is it radiating? > Do you remember the little proggys that would make a pdp > produce sound on an AM-receiver not tuned to any station? > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Brad Parker [mailto:brad@heeltoe.com] > >> Sent: donderdag 22 januari 2004 1:18 > >> To: arcarlini@iee.org; General Discussion: On-Topic and > >> Off-Topic Posts > >> Subject: Re: M7891 switch settings? (unibus) > >> > >> > >> "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > >> >> Does anyone have a manual for an M7891 (128kx18 MOS memory)? > >> > > >> >Is that an MS11 of some sort? > > if it is 128kx18, then it is a MS11-LD, and has an integrated parity > controller. I should have the maintenancemanual somwhere if > it of use to > anyone. I will sent a free copy to aomeone who likes to > convert it to .pdf > file to be put on-line. (Will have to dig it from the garage, however) > > Frank From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 01:25:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab Message-ID: This is kinda cool: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6728&item=2454438993 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 23 01:52:20 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Re: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer" (Jan 22, 15:50) References: Message-ID: <10401230752.ZM13591@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 15:50, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jan 22, 12:15, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > On Jan 22, 2004, at 11:54 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > (I'm going to pick you guys off one at a time until I've got you > > > > all... ;) > > > > > > netcop > > > > Maybe we should all turn on our "Reply-To:" headers and see what > > happens. We could all set them to "vcf@siconic.com" so the results can > > be properly monitored ;-) > > Hey, that would be fun! Equally fun would be for me to modify my > .procmailrc to send any spam message I get to each individual Reply-To > addressed message I receive ;) Oh! I hadn't thought of that :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 23 01:49:45 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: brew-your-own-unibus boards? In-Reply-To: Pete Turnbull "Re: brew-your-own-unibus boards?" (Jan 22, 23:21) References: <200401201910.28908.pat@computer-refuge.org> <3.0.6.32.20040122132731.0095f320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10401222321.ZM13168@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10401230749.ZM13578@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 23:21, Pete Turnbull wrote: > While I was looking up my NatSemi Interface databook, I notice it lists > the DS8640 as an exact replacement for an SP380 (quad 2-input NOR bus > receiver), and an 8T380 is the same thing. That should say "similar thing". I knew there was a difference between SP380 and N8T380, I just couldn't remember what -- as someone pointed out, the N8T380 has schmitt inputs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jan 23 05:36:28 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mitac LIC-2001A Little Intelligent Computer In-Reply-To: <10401230752.ZM13591@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10401230752.ZM13591@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1074856967.7476.2.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-01-23 at 07:52, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > > > Maybe we should all turn on our "Reply-To:" headers and see what > > > happens. We could all set them to "vcf@siconic.com" so the results > can > > > be properly monitored ;-) > > > > Hey, that would be fun! Equally fun would be for me to modify my > > .procmailrc to send any spam message I get to each individual Reply-To > > addressed message I receive ;) > > Oh! I hadn't thought of that :-( Of course, we could configure our mailers to send all of our received spam to Sellam on receipt of a message from him... (Heh, this could go downhill very fast ;) From shirsch at adelphia.net Fri Jan 23 06:05:20 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need docs In-Reply-To: <200401230254.i0N2sGZ1014989@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > The Constellation III manuals for the Apple II and Mac > are now on line at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/corvus Many thanks! > If someone happens to have release 2.0 or later of the CIII > software for the Mac, I could use a copy. It should be three > floppies. I was given a device which was claimed to be a Mac Omninet adapter. If memory serves (and it's buried in the garage at the moment), it was a small "project" box with a DB-9 connector and Omninet mini-plug on short tails. Does this sound right? Which Mac model was this intended to work with? Which version of MacOS? And, lastly, does anyone have _any_ version of the support software? Steve From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Jan 23 05:24:36 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <1074820556.2567.79.camel@dhcp-250016> References: <200401210931.JAA11879@citadel.metropolis.local> <1074820556.2567.79.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: <1074856370.23527.3.camel@pluto> On Fri, 2004-01-23 at 01:15, Tom Jennings wrote: > I do think one possible area of unexplored power-microwave tube > development might be a space-borne sun-heated filament magnetron or > something. Big collector on one side, fins on the other. > > I'm not a tube nut, I just researched them for various projects. I don't > believe in illuminati conspiracies and 100 mpg carburetors either! > > tomj 100mpg carburettors do exist. I had one, and got pretty close to 100mpg. Bog standard Keihin slide carb on my Honda CD200, gentle riding. Gordon. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Jan 23 06:00:52 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074858552.23527.14.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 21:43, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > The end of the power cord is snipped off this 11/34a I have in front of > > me... > > > > It has a blue wire, a brown wire and a green striped wire. > > > > I'm assuming the green striped is ground. Brown hot and blue neutral? > > Exactly. > > > > > (I think this is a standard, but I shy away from voltages above 48vdc :-) > > It's certainly a standard used in England and the rest of Europe. All our > flexible mains cables (not the rigid ones used for house wiring inside > walls [1]) use this colour code. Erm, it's standard in Scotland, Wales and Ireland too... Gordon. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Jan 23 06:02:24 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? In-Reply-To: <200401211207.49356.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200401211656.i0LGuQV05955@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200401211207.49356.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1074858644.24280.17.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 17:07, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Brad Parker declared on Wednesday 21 January 2004 11:56 am: > > The end of the power cord is snipped off this 11/34a I have in front > > of me... > > > > It has a blue wire, a brown wire and a green striped wire. > > > > I'm assuming the green striped is ground. Brown hot and blue > > neutral? > > > > (I think this is a standard, but I shy away from voltages above 48vdc > > :-) > > > > -brad > > Yeah, that's right. Not sure about the 11/34, but especially on things > designed to be dual voltage, you can swap the blue/brown wires 'round > and it'll work ok. Just gotta be careful if the neutral wire is used a > s ground lead... Argh, no no no no no! Blue is always Neutral, Brown is always Phase! Horrible things can happen in switched mode PSUs if you don't follow this, although for lamps and stuff it doesn't make much of a difference. If you're not in the UK then you might want to check that you have the appropriate voltage selected. Gordon. From marcosvelasco at uol.com.br Fri Jan 23 04:30:37 2004 From: marcosvelasco at uol.com.br (Marcos Velasco) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: mac clone References: <028e01c3e148$4bebdef0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <003901c3e19b$f1193f50$0900a8c0@terramedia.com.br> Hi ! I?m from Brazil... and I collect computers... I never found one Unitron MAC 512 to sell... :-( A few peoples have one... but dont sell it :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teo Zenios" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:31 PM Subject: mac clone Any idea what a Unitron mac512 clone from brazil would be worth these days? Someone in a mac forum I belong to is looking for one and they are pretty rare. http://www.lowendmac.com/clones/unitron.html From maya2blue at juno.com Fri Jan 23 07:12:40 2004 From: maya2blue at juno.com (Harve B Thorn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Apple & Corvus - Al Kossow Message-ID: <20040123.071246.-3861589.0.maya2blue@juno.com> Hey Al... Way to go!! Many tks for the tip. Just what I needed! Thank you! I'll keep an eye out for the Mac disks. Harve Thorn Fayetteville, AR > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:54:16 -0800 > From: Al Kossow > Subject: Re: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need docs > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <200401230254.i0N2sGZ1014989@spies.com> > > > The Constellation III manuals for the Apple II and Mac > are now on line at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/corvus > > If someone happens to have release 2.0 or later of the CIII > software for the Mac, I could use a copy. It should be three > floppies. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Jan 23 09:05:56 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: shipping via truck? any advise/war-storie? Message-ID: <200401231505.i0NF5ua07169@mwave.heeltoe.com> In a fit of madness I bid on that 11/730 government auction. And, now it appears I've won. So, how to get a 72"x60"x48" 1000lbs pallet from PA to MA? I assume the sanest thing is to high a "logistics" firm to truck it to me. I have access to a loading dock and pallet jacks so I can receive it in a sane manner. I am curious if others have done this and if they have and "advice" (like, "next time take your medication before reading email!" :-) -brad From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jan 23 09:40:58 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: shipping via truck? any advise/war-storie? In-Reply-To: <200401231505.i0NF5ua07169@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401231505.i0NF5ua07169@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040123153344.GT306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Brad Parker, from writings of Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 10:05:56AM -0500: > So, how to get a 72"x60"x48" 1000lbs pallet from PA to MA? > > I assume the sanest thing is to high a "logistics" firm to truck it to Try contacting residential moving companies who may have a truck, with some empty space in the back, travelling between the two points. About twelve years ago, I did that, only the two systems in question only weighed a total of about 300 lbs. Still, worth a try if you're not in a big hurry and can wait while it sits in a warehouse for a while in between two different truck routes, if the truck that picks it up isn't going all the way to where you want the system delivered. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From MGemeny at pgcps.org Fri Jan 23 09:32:46 2004 From: MGemeny at pgcps.org (Mike Gemeny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: FW: HP2000/Access - benchmarks Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Gemeny > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:14 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP2000/Access - benchmarks > > Jay wrote, > >BTEST ran in 1 Min 37.5 sec > >FPTS9 ran in 1 Min 23.1 sec > > > >Main CPU is a 2100A w/32K core. > > Thanks very much! This will help us to know if we are running faster or > slower then a real system under simulation on various hardware and OS platforms. > > >I'm wondering how they got the timings listed in the source comments? > > I added the comments to paraphrase the surrounding text in the "E" IMS PDF. > I too wonder how they got the numbers, but I didn't want to make any substantive > changes to the code. > > >The difference wasn't HUGE, > >but it was pretty noticeable. I suspect the 21MX-E would be even more so, and > >plus you have the option of several different types & speeds of memory. > >Hopefully we can find out! > > I hope so too. Not many systems were 21MX-E, but as I recall, GMU was and it was reported that it was quite noticeably faster. > > >{my emulator} emulates not just a CPU, but a whole > >computer room full of separate (or connected) HP systems, printers, etc. > > Just for the record SIMH does too, it now has all of the peripherals required to run Access. > You should take it for a spin, just explode the ZIP on a Windoz box and run Access.bat and you should get > the "MAG TAPE SELECT CODE?" questions. (Its 16 for the zip) > The disk images in the ZIP are pre-loaded with a system, just select the 2883 loader > and answer the questions in the dialog to do a disk boot and your up. You can telnet to your box and log in. > It's a good quick way to take "E" or "F" for a spin too; we have separate ZIPs for each. > > >> How much disk are you running? > > My recollection is that the 7900 is 2.5 Meg words or 5 Meg bytes, and that the 7905 is 7.5 Meg words or 15 Meg bytes, > feel free to offer information to the contrary. > > As for the real equipment you may have surplus, count me in! > I have 2 racks, several tape drives, a paper tape reader, and an MX that I have not powered up. > I also have the hard to find stuff like micro-code, MUX, interconnect kit, bootstrap tapes and MCP tapes. > I would rather have the racks with the step, 2100 CPUs, and a couple of 7900s, but beggars can't be choosers. > I would not turn down a 7906 but I would have to find a controller. > I would also need to find tape controllers and some of the cables. > > Keep us posted, > Mike. > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 23 09:43:50 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: shipping via truck? any advise/war-storie? In-Reply-To: <20040123153344.GT306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200401231505.i0NF5ua07169@mwave.heeltoe.com> <20040123153344.GT306@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <40114136.3090101@atarimuseum.com> I use a local Video Arcade/Pinball/Jukebox moving firm who's very well known and trusted called Totally Amused. His name is Justin Jerrigan and the site is www.totallyamused.com and he specializes in moving equipment up/down the entire East Coast and across into states from FL to TX. He has a MASSIVE 20' Trailer with ramp and can do door to door service and his rates are reasonable. He usually works on his own or occassionally with another individual so if equipment is cumbersome, make sure you have someone on both ends to help him onto/off of truck. He understands and appreciates the need for care with equipment, I've used him on numerous occassions to pick up Storageworks cabinets, a CDC-9766 (550lbs) and a couple of PDP racks of equipment, plus the occassional Video Arcade game. So if you need something moved and don't want to go to just "ANY" mover who couldn't give a rats ass about what they are moving, contact Justin over at Totally Amused, tell him Curt sent you, he has GREAT rates! Curt R. D. Davis wrote: >Quothe Brad Parker, from writings of Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 10:05:56AM -0500: > > >>So, how to get a 72"x60"x48" 1000lbs pallet from PA to MA? >> >>I assume the sanest thing is to high a "logistics" firm to truck it to >> >> > >Try contacting residential moving companies who may have a truck, with >some empty space in the back, travelling between the two points. >About twelve years ago, I did that, only the two systems in question >only weighed a total of about 300 lbs. Still, worth a try if you're >not in a big hurry and can wait while it sits in a warehouse for a >while in between two different truck routes, if the truck that picks >it up isn't going all the way to where you want the system delivered. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jan 23 10:27:51 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab References: Message-ID: <40114B87.5E32F72C@comcast.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > This is kinda cool: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6728&item=2454438993 > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival You know, this would make a great rig for traveling around, picking up Classic (or other newer) computers, and testing them before you drive away... Get a satellite internet connection, and you'd be golden... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jplist at kiwigeek.com Fri Jan 23 10:53:00 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab In-Reply-To: <40114B87.5E32F72C@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6728&item=2454438993 > > You know, this would make a great rig for traveling around, picking up > Classic (or other newer) computers, and testing them before you drive > away... Get a satellite internet connection, and you'd be golden... I think this trumps is: www.steelwheels4x4.com Of course. It's a tad more expensive. But it does come with that satellite hookup ;) -JP From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jan 23 11:20:14 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab References: Message-ID: <401157CE.5952F186@comcast.net> JP Hindin wrote: > > On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6728&item=2454438993 > > > > You know, this would make a great rig for traveling around, picking up > > Classic (or other newer) computers, and testing them before you drive > > away... Get a satellite internet connection, and you'd be golden... > > I think this trumps is: > www.steelwheels4x4.com > > Of course. It's a tad more expensive. But it does come with that satellite > hookup ;) > > -JP Okay, that may trump it, but where do you put the mini computers and racks that you pick up on the way? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jan 23 11:28:20 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: OT: Looking for a truly free hit counter Message-ID: <01d601c3e1d6$4ccc6360$26406b43@66067007> Does anyone know where to get code for a truly free hit counter for your website? All the ones I have found want to put ads on your page in return for the code. Thanks From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Jan 23 12:11:02 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401231011.02216.lbickley@bickleywest.com> That is one far-out rig. I want one.... Lyle On Friday 23 January 2004 08:53, JP Hindin wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6728& > > >item=2454438993 > > > > You know, this would make a great rig for traveling around, picking up > > Classic (or other newer) computers, and testing them before you drive > > away... Get a satellite internet connection, and you'd be golden... > > I think this trumps is: > www.steelwheels4x4.com > > Of course. It's a tad more expensive. But it does come with that satellite > hookup ;) > > -JP -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 12:21:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, JP Hindin wrote: > I think this trumps is: > www.steelwheels4x4.com > > Of course. It's a tad more expensive. But it does come with that > satellite hookup ;) -JP Hand-cranked exterior window shades? Pfeh! :) It looks like these folks are getting ready for Armegeddon in style. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jan 23 03:13:45 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: Your message of "22 Jan 2004 14:59:27 PST." <1074812366.2566.56.camel@dhcp-250016> Message-ID: <200401230913.JAA06863@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Tom Jennings said: > Tubes are fun, but they're not really any good for anything useful (and > I don't want to hear from any audio tube nuts :-) They're still very useful for radio transmitters - especially really big ones. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 23 13:15:44 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Looking for a truly free hit counter In-Reply-To: <01d601c3e1d6$4ccc6360$26406b43@66067007> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Keys > Sent: 23 January 2004 17:28 > To: cctalk@classiccmp > Subject: OT: Looking for a truly free hit counter > > > Does anyone know where to get code for a truly free hit counter for your > website? All the ones I have found want to put ads on your page in return > for the code. Thanks Have you got a host that supports PHP/MySQL? If so you can use the counter I've slightly modified from the original that I use on my websites and auctions. Totally free and can use either a text file or a MySQL database to store the count. If not I might be able to set it up to allow you to reference it from your index page or whatever. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 23 13:33:40 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab Message-ID: >Hand-cranked exterior window shades? Pfeh! You know, that is just what I was thinking... they put all this effort into it and then ruin the whole thing by using hand cranked window shades! >It looks like these folks are getting ready for Armegeddon in style. I think they watched "Stripes" too many times. -chris From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 13:38:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Everex 386 laptop available Message-ID: Actually on-topic (scary!) Anyone need an old 386 laptop? See below. Reply-to: beenlostonce@yahoo.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:06:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tanya Deans To: donate@vintage.org Subject: donation question I have an old Everex laptop. Don't know what model. Has sticker saying the processor is Intel 32-bit. I purchased it used in 1993 for school and since then it's just been sitting around the house. Is this something you'd be interested in or should I just trash it? Don't know if it's worth anything to anyone. Thanks. - Tanya Deans From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 13:42:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, chris wrote: > >Hand-cranked exterior window shades? Pfeh! > > You know, that is just what I was thinking... they put all this effort > into it and then ruin the whole thing by using hand cranked window shades! The sauna more than makes up for that lack of creativity. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tponsford at theriver.com Thu Jan 22 13:45:13 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 Message-ID: <40102849.2050405@theriver.com> It's a beast, but unfortunatly no Vax to go with it :-( Still if you want lots o' DSSI storage? It will probably go "really cheap", unless one of the usual bidders already has a buyer for it. I'll see it first-hand on Monday and will know what is really in it. It goes to auction on Tuesday. pictures: http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127047.jpg http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127042.jpg Tom From tponsford at theriver.com Thu Jan 22 13:45:13 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:45 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 Message-ID: <40102849.2050405@theriver.com> It's a beast, but unfortunatly no Vax to go with it :-( Still if you want lots o' DSSI storage? It will probably go "really cheap", unless one of the usual bidders already has a buyer for it. I'll see it first-hand on Monday and will know what is really in it. It goes to auction on Tuesday. pictures: http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127047.jpg http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127042.jpg Tom From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Jan 23 13:50:58 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> As some of you know, it's been quite awhile since I have posted much here. I was off list from early 2002 until June 2003 because of the large amount of traffic -some decidedly off-topic and a horribly stressful job. Had no time to keep up with this and several other old radio-related lists. Now that I'm out of work since June and presently working on a management degree, I've got some time to at least "lurk". I like the cctech/cctalk separation and subscribe only to the tech list. Anyway, I have added items to the Mound of Stuff around this house during the past August. There are several threads of discussion herein on at least three of those items . . . The significant goodies are a Panasonic CF-150B Business Partner and a Grid Systems GRiDLite Plus model 1040, both monochrome LCD laptops. The CF-150B has an 8 MHz V20 CPU, internal 720K 3.5" FDD, 640K RAM, AC wall wart, backlit LCD display (blue characters on green background), ROMed MS-DOS 3.30 (boots up as C:), optional 2400 bps modem (woohoo!) and optional EMS RAM Card expansion memory (1 meg). There is a separate power supply and a couple of spare NiCd battery packs (probably useless now), a couple of software disks (GWBASIC and MS-DOS 3.30 Utilities) and manuals for the modem, EMS RAM and system unit itself. The floppy does not read disks so there's troubleshooting which needs to be done sometime. Otherwise, it powers up and the built-in DOS & utilities work okay. The GRiDLite Plus, on the other hand, is not so well understood. There is no manual. A Google search found limited info here: http://www.computer-archiv.de/comp0139.htm , scroll down the page to "Gridlite Plus". Otherwise, just a bunch of battery suppliers. It has an 80C86 CPU, socket for an 8087 math coprocessor (empty), backlit LCD display (blue characters on green background much like the CF-150B, above), unknown amount of RAM, no modem in its compartment, and an internal 20 meg HDD. Cool. Upon powering up the screen shows "Phoenix ROM BIOS Ver. 2.03, 1/18/88" and a blinking cursor appears underneath while the HDD spins up. But the HDD shuts down shortly after it seems to do its initialization. Then after a minute or so passes a message "Hard Disk Diagnostic Failure" and "Disk Boot Failure" comes up. It keeps trying as another "Disk Boot Failure" message appears every minute or so. That's it. Dang. Anybody know anything about this particular machine? The HDD is JVC model JD3824G00-2 and is not quite the typical 3.5", 1" high IDE drive. Betcha they can't be found too often :( Thankfully, the external AC power supply and external 3.5" floppy drive came with the unit. However, the floppy doesn't show signs of life during the bootup process. Additionally, no keyboard input hits the screen although the default 15 character buffer fills and begins beeping at the 16th keystroke. Therefore, I cannot run SpinRite to checkout the HDD system or do much else. The OS's that are said in that website to be used in the GRiDLite are PenPoint, Penwindows, PenRight. What are all these?? Underneath a removable part of the case at the top rear of the machine there is a connector for the modem and there are eight ROM sockets, all empty. What are those for? A ROM-based OS or applications? The internal NiCd battery had wires soldered between its flat terminals and the respective spring leaf contacts in the system unit. Also, some clown broke the battery compartment latch during the sale before I had bought it thus causing the battery to not set tightly in its compartment. However the PSU is marked as used for Gridcase 1200, 1307, 1500 and the 3403 Drive. Maybe the 60 watt power output is too low to handle the HDD in the GRiDLite?? The PSU model number I have is 34170 if that helps. More troubleshooting to do. That is all I know about this machine except for the German site shown above. Anybody have more info on these laptops? I'm especially curious about the GRiDLite Plus. Another neat item I got is a really pristine HP LaserJet III for $15. Had only 600 sheets reported on the page counter shown on its test page. Absolutely perfectly clean everywhere inside. No stray toner powder nor paper dust. Has a 3rd party 4 meg memory card (total RAM: 5120K). In fact it was in its original box with manuals, all loosely covered with its packing plastic bag. Built February '92. It didn't work, just threw Error 52's which were not described in the manual. But online searching found a really good website, IMO, on printer repair and parts. FYI it is: http://fixyourownprinter.com/ A few of you may already know of this place. I followed the instructions to "tweak" a couple of connectors at: http://fixyourownprinter.com/tweaking.html -which nailed the problem exactly. Those connectors Canon had used (the laser engine maker for this machine) were very poorly engineered, IMHO. I got the LJ III from a household sale of stuff from a bankrupt small computer service shop along with the two laptops mentioned above plus three *carloads* of NOS mid-90's PeeCee motherboards, I/O boards, s/w, etc. mentioned below. I figure the guy simply could not figure out the Error 52 problem. He evidently did not contact HP about warranty repair for some reason and just chucked the boxed unit into storage for the past ten years. Worth noting, he decidedly proved to his family and the banks that he had NO comprehension of how to spend/save money. Hence, his bankruptcy in 1999. Thus my ability to vacuum up some neat almost retro stuff for cheap. You wouldn't believe the amount of NOS Tandy stuff for which I wasn't able to find funds: three brand new Tandy 100's plus carrying cases, two of the little PC2's with printers and a PC1 with printer, all with bunches of s/w & accessories went for only $200 for the lot. I scrounged up about $150 for all the rest of the stuff described here. Just need a toner cartridge for the LJ III as the photodrum has a seemingly permanent toner stain on its surface and horizontal groove along its length from where the toner scraper had set stationary for 10+ years. Leaves a horiz. line and faint blotches on printed sheets. Will not cleanup by itself. Okay for draft printing but not for stuff one would want to archive such as DEC manual reprints, etc. (or my college homework :-). Anybody know if touching the photodrum with cleaner of some sort and soft cloth will destroy it?? The built-in scrapper will not clear the stuck-on toner. Still that darned groove though . . . Also, anybody have a JetDirect Ethernet card for the LaserJet III they could part with? Cannot yet determine the exact part # at this time via online searches. No mention in manual as this option may not have been developed at time of publication (1990). They became available later. Nevertheless, best deal I've made in quite awhile because when I resolve the toner cart problem, I'll have a kind of printer I've always wanted. Price was just fine for this unemployed fella :-) Some of that heap of On topic and Off topic NOS PeeCee boards and misc stuff include a Copy II PC board including manual and disk, a dozen or so Pentium I and several P-II (slot 1) mainboards, about 15 or so 486 mainboards, several PCI video and network cards, 10BaseT hubs and NICs, bunches of software manuals and disks (some just plain obsolete and almost useless, others good for retrocomputing :-), a complete P-II 233 MHz machine full of application software (working perfectly after clock battery replaced!), a complete working Pentium I 233 MHz machine with licensed W95 and 64 Mb RAM, complete working 486 66MHz machine w/64 Mb Ram and hot switchable, removable HDD module (only 80 Mb :-( capacity), bunches of common ISA boards, a LOT of MFM drive cables, a LOT of floppy drive cables, empty cases, etc. Did I mention a LOT of several types of cables? Someday I will cull out most of the boards and stuff out of that heap (both on topic and off topic) and make them available to new homes, but it will be awhile. Schoolwork calls. Note: "Copy II PC" stuff is off limits! :-) :-) OT DEPARTMENT (Close your eyes if you don't want to see it :-) 1.) Anybody have a Pentium III (three), 550 MHz, Slot 1 processor for sale? Cooling fan too? I've got a Linux system I've hammered together from that heap of parts I mention above for which I need this CPU. Only thing lacking for now. Used a nice Soyo SY-6BB mainboard (early version) found in that heap o' stuff (ca. 1998). 2.) Who is a reliable supplier of an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ CPU with mounted fan and warranty for a fair price? Tons of 'em available online, but who seems to be best as far as price/reputation/support, in that order? I do not frequently purchase the latest stuff and have no good feel for who's who. I prefer to live on the "Trailing Edge" of contemporary computing, so this Athlon stuff is still a little out of my scope (until one or two generations have passed ;). (Didn't Tim Shoppa name his company along those lines- Trailing Edge?) The Athlon CPU is for our son's new machine which Beverly and I have been quietly gathering parts over the past several months. He'll be 11 in a few weeks and due for a new machine to replace the Pentium 100 I whipped up for him five years ago. At least he should have something fairly contemporary other than just that infernal Sony PS-2. The machine I'm writing this upon is also sorta new from about 10 months ago - Athlon XP 1500+, 512 Mb RAM, GeForce 4 video, Jetway mainboard, windoze 98SE. Hope it lasts (technologically) until 2005 or 6, but that of course depends upon what M$ determines we "need". On the other hand, I plan to be M$ free before that provided office and productivity applications become pretty much seamless between M$ and Linux. But I still like using the older stuff . . . /OT DEPARTMENT Speaking of Tim Shoppa, where is he nowadays anyway? He was a major asset to DEC enthusiasts everywhere and to the old ClassicCmp list in general. Regards, Chris NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From bob at jfcl.com Fri Jan 23 13:52:19 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Complete and assembled SBC6120 (PDP-8 clone) and front panel for sale on eBay Message-ID: <001801c3e1ea$6c64ad40$d802010a@LIFEBOOK> I'm selling off one of the SBC6120 prototypes from VCF 6.0 on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=2782363270 (I decided that four prototypes was more than anybody could need :-) This is the one on the far right (sitting on the easel) in the picture http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf6/sbc6120.jpg This unit includes the lights and switches front panel, black aluminum bezel for wall hanging, a 16Mb Compact Flash card for mass storage (that's the equivalent of eight RK05Js!) and a wall wart style power supply. It's all ready to plug in; all you need to add is a terminal. If you haven't heard of it, the SBC6120 is a fully functional PDP-8 clone built with contemporary (more or less!) electronics. The SBC6120 executes the PDP-8/E instruction set, includes a full 32K words of main memory and KM8E compatible memory management, has a KL8E compatible interface for an RS232 console terminal, can connect to any IDE/ATA disk drive, and best of all (as you can see from the pictures!) has a fully functional lights and switches front panel. The SBC6120 can run all standard DEC paper tape software, such as FOCAL-69, with no changes. OS/278, OS/78 and, yes - OS/8 V3D or V3S - can all be booted on the SBC6120 using an IDE disk drive as mass storage devices. Bob Armstrong From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 23 14:10:00 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: > 1.) Anybody have a Pentium III (three), 550 MHz, Slot 1 processor for > sale? Cooling fan too? I've got a Linux system I've hammered > together from I've got a PIII 667 here that I 'rescued' when my own job vanished into the ether 14 months ago, but I'm in the UK. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 23 14:11:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 In-Reply-To: <40102849.2050405@theriver.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Ponsford > Sent: 22 January 2004 19:45 > > I'll see it first-hand on Monday and will know what is really in > it. It goes > to auction on Tuesday. > > pictures: > > http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127047.jpg > http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127042.jpg Gods, what I could do with that amount of space at my disposal! w From jplist at kiwigeek.com Fri Jan 23 14:19:58 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, chris wrote: > >Hand-cranked exterior window shades? Pfeh! > You know, that is just what I was thinking... they put all this effort > into it and then ruin the whole thing by using hand cranked window shades! > >It looks like these folks are getting ready for Armegeddon in style. > I think they watched "Stripes" too many times. If you read the site a little, you'd see the vehicle was built for the chaps wife who is wheelchair bound, but an avid photographer. The vehicle allows them to go out into the middle of nowhere and she can take pictures, which is fair to impossible for any other disabled persons. At least. Thats their reason. From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 23 14:37:21 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: VAXstation sysgen question Message-ID: I have ploughed a bit thru the voluminous online doc, and invoked SYSGEN and read thru it's help files.... but I still have no understanding of just how to make a Device known to VMS. Specifically, I want to make a 9trk tape machine (M4 Data = TE16 ?) available. Another listmember was kind enough to provide me with SCSI cables, since the M4 machine is SCSI. I tried: SYSGEN> AUTOCONFIGURE ALL/SELECT=(_list of tape dev names_) which did 'something' and returned to the SYSGEN> prompt - but attempts to ALLOC or MOUNT the dev return 'device unknown' errors, nor are the new devices list in SHOW DEV. So of course I'm (as usual) one or two GOTOs short of a Subroutine... ;} Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 14:41:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Complete and assembled SBC6120 (PDP-8 clone) and front panel for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: <001801c3e1ea$6c64ad40$d802010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Robert Armstrong wrote: > I'm selling off one of the SBC6120 prototypes from VCF 6.0 on eBay > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > > &item=2782363270 > > (I decided that four prototypes was more than anybody could need :-) > This is the one on the far right (sitting on the easel) in the picture > > http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf6/sbc6120.jpg > > This unit includes the lights and switches front panel, black aluminum > bezel for wall hanging, a 16Mb Compact Flash card for mass storage > (that's the equivalent of eight RK05Js!) and a wall wart style power > supply. It's all ready to plug in; all you need to add is a terminal. Excellent! Complement this fine piece of neo-retrotech with a nice VT520 terminal: http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=373 Only $25 (while supplies last!) (BTW: Bob, you're one of the Reply-To: offenders >:) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 14:52:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Christian Fandt wrote: > The OS's that are said in that website to be used in the GRiDLite are > PenPoint, Penwindows, PenRight. What are all these?? PenPoint was Go Corporation's attempt at a pen-based OS (i.e. for tablet computers). PenWindows was Microsoft's obligatory attempt to hijack the market from Go (Read Jerry Kaplan's _Startup_ for a great story). I've never heard of PenRight. > find funds: three brand new Tandy 100's plus carrying cases, two of the > little PC2's with printers and a PC1 with printer, all with bunches of s/w > & accessories went for only $200 for the lot. I scrounged up about $150 for > all the rest of the stuff described here. $200 is a tad steep for that lot. $150 would be more acceptable. > Just need a toner cartridge for the LJ III as the photodrum has a seemingly > permanent toner stain on its surface and horizontal groove along its length > from where the toner scraper had set stationary for 10+ years. Leaves a > horiz. line and faint blotches on printed sheets. Will not cleanup by > itself. Okay for draft printing but not for stuff one would want to archive > such as DEC manual reprints, etc. (or my college homework :-). Anybody know > if touching the photodrum with cleaner of some sort and soft cloth will > destroy it?? The built-in scrapper will not clear the stuck-on toner. Still > that darned groove though . . . Don't bother...I've got a bunch of these surplus. Let me know if you want one or more and I'll send them out to you (along with the SCSI cables you wanted). > Also, anybody have a JetDirect Ethernet card for the LaserJet III they > could part with? Cannot yet determine the exact part # at this time via > online searches. No mention in manual as this option may not have been > developed at time of publication (1990). They became available later. I have a Token Ring JetDirect adapter for this if you want to connect it to your Token Ring network :) > Some of that heap of On topic and Off topic NOS PeeCee boards and misc > stuff include a Copy II PC board including manual and disk, a dozen or so Nice! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 23 14:55:34 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: VAXstation sysgen question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: 23 January 2004 20:37 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: VAXstation sysgen question > > SYSGEN> AUTOCONFIGURE ALL/SELECT=(_list of tape dev names_) which did > 'something' and returned to the SYSGEN> prompt - but attempts to ALLOC or > MOUNT the dev return 'device unknown' errors, nor are the new devices list > in SHOW DEV. The normal procedure was MC SYSGEN AUTO ALL/LOG followed by $@SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP CONFIGURE but I thought that only worked properly on VMS 6.2 and above. cheers w From tomj at wps.com Fri Jan 23 15:11:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074891547.2233.4.camel@dhcp-249166> On Thu, 2004-01-22 at 18:39, William Donzelli wrote: > > And it's a great announcement every time! > > > > Now all we need are some sample devices :-) > > Just like the announcement that core memory is coming back in chip form. > Well, maybe. At least someone shipped samples about ten years ago > (Ramtron? I have one somewhere). (I remember those things from the trade rags, never saw one... 16 bits in a DIP package for non-volatile config storage. Not too shabby, but gone the way of bubble, core, etc...) From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 23 15:12:34 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: VAXstation sysgen question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > The normal procedure was MC SYSGEN AUTO ALL/LOG followed by > $@SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP CONFIGURE but I thought that only worked properly on > VMS 6.2 and above. I'll give this a crank - I'm running V7.2 - any gotchas/pitfalls/d'ohs I oughta watch out for?? Thanks!! Cheers John > > cheers > > w > > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 23 15:30:13 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: www.emulation.net seems to be gone Message-ID: <54353296-4DEB-11D8-A002-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> They had emulations of several classic computers that ran under mac os, on powerPCz I can't seem to get them, can anyone? From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jan 23 09:50:41 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Mobile computing lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040123104758.02515088@mail.n.ml.org> Very damned cool. Too bad it came from NY and went all the way down to GA or I might consider it. (New Yorker) You know, out of my pure laziness for LAN parties, so I don't have to pack and unpack computers and networking every damned time. Plus, it kicks ass to be truly mobile and LAN partying. =P Some firm out there will want it, I'm sure. -John Boffemmyer IV At 02:25 AM 1/23/2004, you wrote: >This is kinda cool: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6728&item=2454438993 > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From finnegpt at purdue.edu Fri Jan 23 11:53:00 2004 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Pat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: OT: Looking for a truly free hit counter In-Reply-To: <01d601c3e1d6$4ccc6360$26406b43@66067007> References: <01d601c3e1d6$4ccc6360$26406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <200401231253.00876.finnegpt@purdue.edu> On Friday 23 January 2004 12:28, Keys wrote: > Does anyone know where to get code for a truly free hit counter for > your website? All the ones I have found want to put ads on your page > in return for the code. Thanks Something I made up a while ago: http://purdueriots.com/count.cgi.c It requires you have server-parsed html pages enabled in your webserver (preferably apache). It's pretty small and self-explanitory. : ) -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs "sort of the opposite of rose-colored glassess... maybe looking through ?swamp gas.." -- Anonymous. From r.lasbury at ntlworld.com Fri Jan 23 13:18:58 2004 From: r.lasbury at ntlworld.com (Robin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Mouse for a DEC ?? Message-ID: <001001c3e1e5$cdacf350$0200a8c0@Gamma> I have two DEC workstations a 3000 and a 5000 and a good working keyboard but no mouse. Has anyone any experience of making a PC mouse work on a DEC? Is this feasable or should I spend my time hunting down a genuine DEC mouse instead? All suggestions, help and advice gratefully received. Robin _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1499 Spam messages and set aside 221 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 23 14:00:03 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 In-Reply-To: <40102849.2050405@theriver.com> References: <40102849.2050405@theriver.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Tom Ponsford wrote: > It's a beast, but unfortunatly no Vax to go with it :-( Still if you > want lots o' DSSI storage? Ooh, I could really use that for my VAX 6000. I don't suppose it'd be practical to ship it to Indiana. :-/ -brian. From maya2blue at juno.com Fri Jan 23 14:30:10 2004 From: maya2blue at juno.com (Harve B Thorn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need software Message-ID: <20040123.143017.-3682819.0.maya2blue@juno.com> Steven and Al.... I need the corvus software for apple IIe's. I'll keep a lookout for the mac version as well. Harve Thorn On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:00:38 -0600 (CST) cctech-request@classiccmp.org writes: > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:05:20 -0500 (EST) > From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > Subject: Re: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need docs > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > If someone happens to have release 2.0 or later of the CIII > > software for the Mac, I could use a copy. It should be three > > floppies. > > I was given a device which was claimed to be a Mac Omninet adapter. > If > memory serves (and it's buried in the garage at the moment), it was > a > small "project" box with a DB-9 connector and Omninet mini-plug on > short > tails. Does this sound right? > > Which Mac model was this intended to work with? Which version of > MacOS? > And, lastly, does anyone have _any_ version of the support > software? > > Steve ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Fri Jan 23 15:47:03 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? References: <1074858552.23527.14.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <007301c3e1fa$70bb42e0$e45d4ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon JC Pearce" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:49 AM Subject: Re: power cord for 11/34? > On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 21:43, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > > The end of the power cord is snipped off this 11/34a I have in front of > > > me... > > > > > > It has a blue wire, a brown wire and a green striped wire. > > > > > > I'm assuming the green striped is ground. Brown hot and blue neutral? > > > > Exactly. > > > > > > > > (I think this is a standard, but I shy away from voltages above 48vdc :-) > > > > It's certainly a standard used in England and the rest of Europe. All our > > flexible mains cables (not the rigid ones used for house wiring inside > > walls [1]) use this colour code. > > Erm, it's standard in Scotland, Wales and Ireland too... err, except those places don't exist , do they ? We get this all the time from the Anglosaxons, only England exists - until something goes wrong - then the Brits get the blame. Geoff. > Gordon. > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 23 15:51:05 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 Message-ID: <0401232151.AA17522@ivan.Harhan.ORG> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Tom Ponsford wrote: > It's a beast, but unfortunatly no Vax to go with it :-( Still if you > want lots o' DSSI storage? Exactly how much storage are we talking about? SF200 is the array carcass. What disks are in it? MS From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jan 23 15:55:06 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Mouse for a DEC ?? In-Reply-To: <001001c3e1e5$cdacf350$0200a8c0@Gamma> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Robin wrote: > I have two DEC workstations a 3000 and a 5000 and a good working > keyboard but no mouse. > Has anyone any experience of making a PC mouse work on a DEC? > > Is this feasable or should I spend my time hunting down a genuine DEC > mouse instead? No, you need a DEC mouse, connectors and protocols are completely different... (I have one for shipping costs If you cant track one down) > > All suggestions, help and advice gratefully received. > > Robin > > _____ > > << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1499 Spam messages and set aside > 221 Newsletters for me > You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com > Peter Wallace From wmaddox at pacbell.net Fri Jan 23 16:29:22 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20040123222922.47816.qmail@web80506.mail.yahoo.com> Re: Tim Shoppa Tim maintains a very nice archive of PDP-10 and PDP-11 related material at www.trailing-edge.com. He's been a regular contributor to alt.sys.pdp10 in fairly recent memory. --Bill From vrs at msn.com Fri Jan 23 17:01:08 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem Message-ID: Hi, My ASR-33 has recently started to apply 20V pulses to my TX+ line. I suspect something has gone south on the selector magnet driver board. Any ideas on where to start looking? Thanks! Vince From shirsch at adelphia.net Fri Jan 23 17:06:01 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need software In-Reply-To: <20040123.143017.-3682819.0.maya2blue@juno.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Harve B Thorn wrote: > Steven and Al.... > > I need the corvus software for apple IIe's. I'll keep a lookout for the > mac version as well. The software I can help you with. Please contact me off-list. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 23 17:16:09 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: VAXstation sysgen question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: 23 January 2004 21:13 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: VAXstation sysgen question > > > The normal procedure was MC SYSGEN AUTO ALL/LOG followed by > > $@SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP CONFIGURE but I thought that only worked > properly on > > VMS 6.2 and above. > > > I'll give this a crank - I'm running V7.2 - any gotchas/pitfalls/d'ohs > I oughta watch out for?? None that I ever discovered, though that doesn't mean they didn't exist and I should maybe have done things differently. It was common procedure to hot swap something like a TLZ06, and if it wasn't recognised by the system then SYSGEN would find it. Alphas were far more tolerant of doing this too. Oh, I also never tried mixing and matching SCSI IDs; from the MicroVAX world I inhabited the boot disk was always DKA300 (digital standard), the tape drive was always MK{A|B}500 and in the later Alpha world the CD was DK{A|B}400. Obviously for bigger machines this didn't count, given the differing device naming scheme. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jan 23 17:21:29 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 In-Reply-To: <40102849.2050405@theriver.com> Message-ID: Hiya, > It's a beast, but unfortunatly no Vax to go with it :-( Still if you want > lots o' DSSI storage? DSSI? Hmm, fron the picture (first one) it looks like it has several RAxx drives inside, meaning, an SDI drive cabinet, not DSSI... Cheers, Fred From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 17:31:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Need NeXT cube install media Message-ID: I need the NeXT cube install media for a friend who wants to re-load a NeXT cube. Where can this be gotten from? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 23 17:37:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: William King? Message-ID: <200401232337.i0NNbjo9020914@spies.com> Does anyone have a current email adr for him? From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 23 17:44:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Need NeXT cube install media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 23 January 2004 23:31 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List > Subject: Need NeXT cube install media > > > > I need the NeXT cube install media for a friend who wants to re-load a > NeXT cube. And can I add my request for NeXSTART 3.3 media, 'cos although I like my NeXTstation running the non y2k compliant 2.4 edition I'd like to update it so it knows what day it is these days :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 23 17:39:26 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt "New Classic Finds and etc. (Long)" (Jan 23, 14:50) References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <10401232339.ZM14212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 23, 14:50, Christian Fandt wrote: > Just need a toner cartridge for the LJ III as the photodrum has a seemingly > permanent toner stain on its surface and horizontal groove along its length > from where the toner scraper had set stationary for 10+ years. Leaves a > horiz. line and faint blotches on printed sheets. Will not cleanup by > itself. Okay for draft printing but not for stuff one would want to archive > such as DEC manual reprints, etc. (or my college homework :-). Anybody know > if touching the photodrum with cleaner of some sort and soft cloth will > destroy it?? The built-in scrapper will not clear the stuck-on toner. Still > that darned groove though . . . Once, I got some self-adhesive labels wrapped around the drum on a Canon, and with nothing to lose, used cotton pads and iso-propyl alcohol to remove them. After a few sheets, it was as good as new. > Also, anybody have a JetDirect Ethernet card for the LaserJet III they > could part with? Cannot yet determine the exact part # at this time via > online searches. No mention in manual as this option may not have been > developed at time of publication (1990). They became available later. All the IIIs I've seen had JetDirect cards (they all came from netwroked environments). They only work as single-protocol in a III, but just about any JetDirect MIO card should work, as far as I remember. Look for J2250A, J2550B, J2552A or J2552B (that's what are in my 4s, 5s, and 1600). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tomj at wps.com Fri Jan 23 18:11:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074902315.2491.22.camel@dhcp-249166> On Thu, 2004-01-22 at 19:01, William Donzelli wrote: > > THe electronic design was abandoned for now. Basically I was to > > (will...?) build a 4 x 4 switched cap memory which will be a nice > > reality check on flops, tubes, etc. > > Please keep us informed. Will do! > Subminis might also be a good choice, if you can find them. They "never" > go bad. I don't think I have ever found a bad one. Their reliabilty was > due to production in a clean room environment using very high purity > materials. One interesting side effect was that submini tubes lost their > sockets - the things were soldered right into the circuits, as the sockets > became the most failure prone components. They are a good choice. The US gubbamint just (well a year or two ago) dumped huge amounts of them, allegedly spares kept for existing equipme nt went over 20 yrs old. There were some ship-board computers built with them, soldered right into the PC board. Hell they're rugged, as they were first developed for proximity fuzes in torpedos and shells! > Most computer tubes were also built in the same clean room environment, > and also tended to be very reliable. In the good old tube computer days, > there would be a flurry of tube swapping for the first few months, maybe > a year, of the computer's life, but then as the weakling runt tubes were > purged, the machines became quite reliable. I can totally see that scenario. > The biggest advancement was the use of the IERC tube shields - the type > that have ribbing inside to conduct the heat away. It took ten years, but > the industry finally figured out the old style tube shields were a really > dumb idea. Yeah, glass is a poor conductor of heat! I suppose lots of forced air works too, but is always trouble. > The military radar things, specifically for IFF systems, had good power > supplies. They were digital system, after all (specifially SIF encoders > and decoders). See?! :-) From tomj at wps.com Fri Jan 23 18:16:16 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: MUNIAC Message-ID: <1074902631.2490.28.camel@dhcp-249166> 700 tubes! That's daunting. It took whole departments a year to assemble machines like that, and with budgets. (Though they didnt have gigasample/100MHz software scopes :-) I'm awed that he got that much together. I figure I can get 2500 instructions/second for 70 tubes, or 100 active elements, not including the store (aka memory) which is just N x $ (eg. how much memory can you afford?). Lots of silicon diodes (not cheating at all, very 1958). 2500 not very good instructions, I might add. From tponsford at theriver.com Thu Jan 22 18:03:31 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 In-Reply-To: <0401232151.AA17522@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401232151.AA17522@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <401064D3.90205@theriver.com> What you see on the site is exactly what I know (and from reading the user's manual) But I will see it in person on Monday and then I'll be able to open it up and see inside.Sometimes arrays put up for sale at the auction are empty, but more often than not they are usually full. Tom Michael Sokolov wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Tom Ponsford wrote: > > >>It's a beast, but unfortunatly no Vax to go with it :-( Still if you >>want lots o' DSSI storage? > > > Exactly how much storage are we talking about? SF200 is the array carcass. > What disks are in it? > > MS > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 23 17:28:40 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jan 22, 4 09:29:03 pm Message-ID: > > Subminis might also be a good choice, if you can find them. They "never" > > go bad. I don't think I have ever found a bad one. Their reliabilty was > > due to production in a clean room environment using very high purity > > materials. One interesting side effect was that submini tubes lost their > > sockets - the things were soldered right into the circuits, as the sockets SOemwhere I have a valved hearing aid. It uses 3 submini valves -- a pair of DF64s in the first 2 stages and a DL64 in the output stage. These valves are wire-ended, with 5 wires in line. Howeverm they are plugged into little sockets inside -- I've seen the same sockets, but with only 3 contacts fitted, used as transistor sockets. There were also sockets for the 8 pin subminis. I have one somewhere. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 23 17:31:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? In-Reply-To: <1074858552.23527.14.camel@pluto> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Jan 23, 4 11:49:11 am Message-ID: > > It's certainly a standard used in England and the rest of Europe. All our > > flexible mains cables (not the rigid ones used for house wiring inside > > walls [1]) use this colour code. > > Erm, it's standard in Scotland, Wales and Ireland too... Aren't those countries covered by 'the rest of Europe' ? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 23 17:33:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: power cord for 11/34? In-Reply-To: <1074858644.24280.17.camel@pluto> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Jan 23, 4 11:50:43 am Message-ID: > Argh, no no no no no! Blue is always Neutral, Brown is always Phase! > Horrible things can happen in switched mode PSUs if you don't follow Care to expalin why? Every SMPSU I've worked on has had a totally symmetrical input (with the possible exception of the mains filter capacitors) and couldn't care less which wire is 'hot'. IIRC, the regulations explicitly forbid making assumptions about one of the wires being close to earth potential, with the exception that you can have single pole switching (and of course the single-pole fuse) in the live wire only. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 23 18:00:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem In-Reply-To: from "vrs" at Jan 23, 4 03:01:08 pm Message-ID: > > Hi, > > My ASR-33 has recently started to apply 20V pulses to my TX+ line. I By Tx+ do you mean the keyboard loop? In other words, is it Tx on the teletype or Tx on the computer? If it is on the keyboard loop, I'd look for shorted contacts on the line/local selector relay (it's burried in the call control unit, not on the selector driver module though). Maybe the internal loop supply (used in local mode) is somehow getting onto the line connections. -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 23 18:11:56 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: www.emulation.net seems to be gone In-Reply-To: <54353296-4DEB-11D8-A002-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> from "Ron Hudson" at Jan 23, 2004 01:30:13 PM Message-ID: <200401240011.i0O0Butk001039@onyx.spiritone.com> > They had emulations of several classic computers that > ran under mac os, on powerPCz > > I can't seem to get them, can anyone? Unfortuantly no. I needed to get information on Atari ST/TT/Falcon emulators for the Mac the other night, and was disappointed to see they were down. It's a royal pain finding stuff with them down, as I've never bothered to bookmark any of the sites. Of course I think what I really need to do is get my TT030 out of storage :^) Some things an emulator just can't handle. Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 18:17:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Google died... Message-ID: This is creepy. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vrs at msn.com Fri Jan 23 18:18:56 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem References: Message-ID: > > My ASR-33 has recently started to apply 20V pulses to my TX+ line. I > > By Tx+ do you mean the keyboard loop? In other words, is it Tx on the > teletype or Tx on the computer? Sorry, I mean Tx on the computer. The 20V appears on the + side of the loop going to the TTY's printer, whenever the printer is actually printing. The computer doesn't like it much, either :-). Vince From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Jan 23 18:25:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Google died... References: Message-ID: <000501c3e210$8c0fb6a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Fine for me here on the East Coast. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:17 PM Subject: Google died... > > This is creepy. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 23 18:26:39 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alive and well in Nevada... From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Jan 23 18:32:23 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Need NeXT cube install media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401231632.23123.lbickley@bickleywest.com> What version of NeXT are they looking for? I have most recent versions. Unfortunately, I'll not be able to get to them until mid-February. Perhaps someone else on the list can help them out sooner... Lyle On Friday 23 January 2004 15:31, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I need the NeXT cube install media for a friend who wants to re-load a > NeXT cube. > > Where can this be gotten from? -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Jan 23 18:35:19 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401231635.19173.lbickley@bickleywest.com> When? I didn't die here (Mountain View). Lyle On Friday 23 January 2004 16:17, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > This is creepy. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 23 18:37:26 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Google died... References: Message-ID: <008901c3e212$3d7803b0$d27ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Google died... > > Alive and well in Nevada... > > > > > Works here in Ohio also From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 18:45:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: www.emulation.net seems to be gone In-Reply-To: <200401240011.i0O0Butk001039@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > They had emulations of several classic computers that > > ran under mac os, on powerPCz > > > > I can't seem to get them, can anyone? > > Unfortuantly no. I needed to get information on Atari ST/TT/Falcon emulators > for the Mac the other night, and was disappointed to see they were down. > It's a royal pain finding stuff with them down, as I've never bothered to > bookmark any of the sites. Yeah, that sucks. It was a good resource. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 18:48:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: <008901c3e212$3d7803b0$d27ca418@game> Message-ID: > > Alive and well in Nevada... > > > > > > > > > > > > Works here in Ohio also It was definitely not returning search results for me for a good 10-15 minutes starting a few minutes before I posted that message. All I got was a mostly blank page with the Google copyright. I caught Google with its pants down! HAHA! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 23 18:52:00 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem Message-ID: <200401240052.QAA21729@clulw009.amd.com> >From: vrs > >> > My ASR-33 has recently started to apply 20V pulses to my TX+ line. I >> >> By Tx+ do you mean the keyboard loop? In other words, is it Tx on the >> teletype or Tx on the computer? > >Sorry, I mean Tx on the computer. The 20V appears on the + side of the loop >going to the TTY's printer, whenever the printer is actually printing. The >computer doesn't like it much, either :-). > > Vince > 20V usually means that the loop is open someplace? It might even be the computers end. Dwight From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 23 18:56:07 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet and Apple IIe - need docs Message-ID: <200401240056.i0O0u7sU000587@spies.com> > I was given a device which was claimed to be a Mac Omninet adapter. > Which Mac model was this intended to work with? The CIII docs show it working with an SE. It connects to the serial port. Inside they're a corvus transporter with a serial interface. Version 2 of CIII supported HFS, so it would be System 4/5 timeframe. From tomj at wps.com Fri Jan 23 19:11:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: old computer books Message-ID: <1074905966.2233.53.camel@dhcp-249166> I almost hate to post this, I don't know how well known it is, and I like to get first grabs... :-) www.powellsbooks.com, an incredibly great bookstore for any number of reasons, has had an Early Computing section (online) for years. I get a lot of stuff from them. Prices aren't bad. CP/M, Amiga, old old, etc. Selfishness aside, I think the Early sections would benefit from more traffic. Browse (left column): Computers -> Computers: Early. At the top "list all titles" etc. They buy too. From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 23 19:08:47 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 23, 2004 04:48:46 PM Message-ID: <20040124010847.24EAA140DF05@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Vintage Computer Festival once stated: > > > > > Alive and well in Nevada... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Works here in Ohio also > > It was definitely not returning search results for me for a good 10-15 > minutes starting a few minutes before I posted that message. All I got > was a mostly blank page with the Google copyright. > > I caught Google with its pants down! HAHA! Or a network problem between you and Google ... -spc (With Google, it's most likely a network problem ... ) From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 23 19:17:10 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 References: <0401232151.AA17522@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <401064D3.90205@theriver.com> Message-ID: <008101c3e217$cb1b6040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There are two drive types (at least) that will fit, plus the tall stacking tape drives (the two largest panels in the middle). The SF means it was intended for DSSI (RF) drives, but since the module cells (2 on top, 4 on bottom, total 6) are the same for RA9x series SDI and for SF7x series DSSI, you can break the rules and put either in. The SF7x looks a lot like an RA9x but instead it encloses four RF7x 5.25" DSSI drives. Your capacity can vary widely depending on which of the RF70,1,2,3,4 drives are in there. BTW the SF7's empty are called BA28 cases. sf200ig1.pdf, (EK-SF200-IG-001) in the DEC94MDS says nearly all this. John A. happy owner of one. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 23 19:21:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: <20040124010847.24EAA140DF05@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > I caught Google with its pants down! HAHA! > > Or a network problem between you and Google ... > > -spc (With Google, it's most likely a network problem ... ) Nope, the page was done loading, and all that was there was an
and a copyright message. I should've captured it somehow. Oh well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From john3000 at cox.net Fri Jan 23 20:51:33 2004 From: john3000 at cox.net (John K.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: FW: HP2000/Access - benchmarks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20040123211407.04597b00@pop.east.cox.net> At 2004-01-23 10:32 AM, Mike Gemeny wrote: {snip} > > I hope so too. Not many systems were 21MX-E, but as I recall, GMU was > and it was reported that it was quite noticeably faster. Yes, GMU had an HP 2000 ACCESS system with 21MX-E processors, 7920 disc (50 MB of which the ACCESS operating system could only address the first 33 MB), 32K WORDS of RAM in each processor, 32 MUX ports, SYNC card (for RJE), 7970 1600 BPI tape, and an HP 2640B terminal as the console. I was the system manager for the GMU HP 2000 from its delivery in August, 1978 until I left GMU in January, 1984. At the time we received the system (August, 1978), we were told that our system was one of the last two off the assembly line - how accurate that claim was, I don't know. At one time GMU had the HP 2000 ACCESS source code, operating system manuals, patching instructions, etc. I used the source code and manuals to patch the ACCESS OS we used. The patch made using the HP 2640B terminal as the system console a much more pleasant experience. Basically, it changed the normal console backspace from a backspace and underscore to a backspace and a bell (a one byte patch). At various times we had to limp along with a 2100 processor while repairs were made to our 21MX-E processor. Many years have gone by, but I remember the 2100 as being VERY much slower. Was the 21MX-E twice as fast? Three times as fast? I can't say - too many years have gone by. {snip} > > >> How much disk are you running? > > > > My recollection is that the 7900 is 2.5 Meg words or 5 Meg bytes, and > that the 7905 is 7.5 Meg words or 15 Meg bytes, > > feel free to offer information to the contrary. I believe that is correct. GMU had a single 7920 50 Mb disc, but HP custom formatted it for use by the HP 2000 ACCESS. If I remember correctly, a disc diagnostic/utility program (which I think was called SLUTH) was used to configure the drive. I'm guessing that the drive was formatted as having a total of 65,535 sectors, which is approximately 33 Mb. Question: How are the 7905 and 7906 discs you are using formatted? {snip} > > Mike. > > > > > > John *** When replying to this message, please do not delete these *** *** signature lines. Otakon Katsucon HP3000-L @classiccmp.org *** From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jan 23 21:42:24 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue Message-ID: Hi all ! Hmm. Although I did find that great, pristine PDP-8 at that scrapper, and *did* manage to get it out of the melting queue, it's not all safe yet... As it turns out, this stuff is actually owned by someone else, who just stored it there. However, that person has not paid their storage bills (just over a year behind) *and* does not answer calls. This is why the scrapper eventually decided to move it into the melting queue, simply to recover cost of storage. That is how they make their money, so be it. Now.. I *did* spend a few hours today on tracking down that guy, and he is still alive. We're all going to work on getting that machine out of the danger zone, which is why I paid a large sum of money (one year of storage past due, and one year of storage as a bonus etc etc) to put a "hold" on it. Legally speaking, my attorrney tells me, the debt from that guy to the scrapper has now "moved' to me, so if he does not pay me, I can go and pick it up. I am sending to all on the list, simply because of the important- ness of the machine to us all, and so there are no misunderstandings on the matter. :) When I am back here in march, I will arrange for storage and a nice work area where all these will go. Until then, they are locked :P The same goes for the four PDP-11/34's: they are safe now, and, as above, locked until march when I'll clean em up, test them and call people to let them know their "order is ready" :) [yes, I eat at In-N-Out too often, I know..] Ohyeah. I *did* save the two VT100's (Jay got em, if anyone else wants one, let Jay know ;-) and tried to save the two Tek's, but I was too late for those.. they had just, er, died^H^H^H^Hmelted. :( So there :) If there is anyone in the Bay Area (er, within sane driving distance) who can spare an H960, or bumps into one, please let me know ! Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 23 21:41:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem In-Reply-To: from "vrs" at Jan 23, 4 04:18:56 pm Message-ID: > > > > My ASR-33 has recently started to apply 20V pulses to my TX+ line. I > > > > By Tx+ do you mean the keyboard loop? In other words, is it Tx on the > > teletype or Tx on the computer? > > Sorry, I mean Tx on the computer. The 20V appears on the + side of the loop > going to the TTY's printer, whenever the printer is actually printing. The > computer doesn't like it much, either :-). I guess I'd start by unplugging the 9 pin connector on the selector magnet driver bracket. If you still get 20V on the loop, then there's a short somewhere in the wiring on the call control unit (probably on the relay). If not, then there's a problem in the selector magnet driver. There aren't that many components in there, so it can't be too hard to test the lot! -tony From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 23 21:51:56 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue Message-ID: <0401240351.AA18106@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Ohyeah. I *did* save the two VT100's (Jay got em, if anyone else > wants one, let Jay know ;-) and tried to save the two Tek's, but I > was too late for those.. they had just, er, died^H^H^H^Hmelted. :( Can we get a posse out there to arrest that guy, give him a speedy and public trial, and take him to California gas chamber for the murder of classic computers? That's the same guy who just murdered a VAX 7000, right? MS From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jan 23 22:00:18 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue In-Reply-To: <0401240351.AA18106@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > computers? That's the same guy who just murdered a VAX 7000, right? Yes, the same. That is how he makes a living. If he didnt, our landscape would look a lot ickier, trust me, with piles of rotting and rusting crap laying around. Of course, I dont like the melting of good stuff either. Then again, nobody seemed to want it, or, bad enough to buy it to keep it out of those melters. Nuf said. Next time I see one, I promise you, I'll grab it, charge it on your credit card and have it shipped to its billing address... --f From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Jan 23 22:06:31 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred, you have my express permission to charge my credit card the cost of such a great find, as well as a healthy finders fee! I am (fairly) serious here! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:00 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > computers? That's the same guy who just murdered a VAX 7000, right? Yes, the same. That is how he makes a living. If he didnt, our landscape would look a lot ickier, trust me, with piles of rotting and rusting crap laying around. Of course, I dont like the melting of good stuff either. Then again, nobody seemed to want it, or, bad enough to buy it to keep it out of those melters. Nuf said. Next time I see one, I promise you, I'll grab it, charge it on your credit card and have it shipped to its billing address... --f From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Jan 23 22:07:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ps: This goes for anyone who may come across PDP-8 and/or TU-56 material. -----Original Message----- From: David V. Corbin [mailto:dvcorbin@optonline.net] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:07 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue Fred, you have my express permission to charge my credit card the cost of such a great find, as well as a healthy finders fee! I am (fairly) serious here! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:00 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > computers? That's the same guy who just murdered a VAX 7000, right? Yes, the same. That is how he makes a living. If he didnt, our landscape would look a lot ickier, trust me, with piles of rotting and rusting crap laying around. Of course, I dont like the melting of good stuff either. Then again, nobody seemed to want it, or, bad enough to buy it to keep it out of those melters. Nuf said. Next time I see one, I promise you, I'll grab it, charge it on your credit card and have it shipped to its billing address... --f From vrs at msn.com Fri Jan 23 22:10:51 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem References: Message-ID: > > Sorry, I mean Tx on the computer. The 20V appears on the + side of the loop > > going to the TTY's printer, whenever the printer is actually printing. The > > computer doesn't like it much, either :-). > > I guess I'd start by unplugging the 9 pin connector on the selector > magnet driver bracket. If you still get 20V on the loop, then there's a > short somewhere in the wiring on the call control unit (probably on the > relay). If not, then there's a problem in the selector magnet driver. > There aren't that many components in there, so it can't be too hard to > test the lot! I found a 9 pin connector behind the selector magnet driver. I had to remove the selector magnet driver and bracket to get at it. I disconnected it, then put the selector magnet driver back in it's socket (left bracket off for now). I no longer get the +20V spikes on the line, so I guess the problem lies on the selector magnet driver card? BTW the thing chatters even in local mode now, probably because the selector magnet is never doing it's thing? So, is there a theory of operation somewhere for the selector magnet driver? I can't follow what the schematic is doing at all. I suppose I could remove the components and test them each out of circuit. Vince From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 23 22:24:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: FW: HP2000/Access - benchmarks References: <5.1.1.6.2.20040123211407.04597b00@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <001901c3e231$fca91480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Yes, GMU had an HP 2000 ACCESS system with 21MX-E processors, Are you sure it was 21MX-E and not 21MX-M? Just curious! > 7920 disc (50 > MB of which the ACCESS operating system could only address the first 33 > MB), 32K WORDS of RAM in each processor, 32 MUX ports, SYNC card (for RJE), > 7970 1600 BPI tape, and an HP 2640B terminal as the console. My full 2000/Access config is 2100A cpu w/32K, 2100S cpu w/32K, 7906 drive (20mb, 15mb usable cause access sees it as a 7905), 7900A drive (10mb) 16 Mux ports, Sync card for RJE, 7970 1600 bpi tape, 2748b paper tape punch, 2895b paper tape reader, 7261 optical card reader, and 2610 printer :) The 7261 and 2610 haven't been refurbed yet though. I hope to switch from 2100 cpus to 21MX-E's at some point. > I was the system manager for the GMU HP 2000 from its delivery in August, > 1978 until I left GMU in January, 1984 If you are ever in St. Louis, stop by and you can reminisce and boot Access up :) > I used the source code and manuals to > patch the ACCESS OS we used. I have a whole list of patches for 2000E, mostly with regards to terminal handling (accepting 80 column lines instead of 72 max), baud rates, etc. >Was the 21MX-E twice as fast? Three > times as fast? I can't say - too many years have gone by. Remember, there are like three different kinds of memory you can put in an E, each one up the line is a fair amount faster. So, how fast the E is depends on which of those memory types is installed. > If I remember correctly, a > disc diagnostic/utility program (which I think was called SLUTH) was used > to configure the drive. I have seen mention of a program called SLUTH for disc drives, but my impression was that it was a 3rd party program, not HP. HP always wanted you to use their diagnostics to format the drive (plus, Access can format a pack all by itself). > Question: How are the 7905 and 7906 discs you are using formatted? The 7905/06 drives can be formatted with quite a few different utilities, most notably either the 13037/790x diagnostic, or via Access itself. > John > *** When replying to this message, please do not delete these *** > *** signature lines. Otakon Katsucon HP3000-L @classiccmp.org *** > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Jan 23 22:29:52 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred, et.al. I was afraid of that ;) On a more serious note, there are a large number of collectors here. Many have different areas of interest. What might be VERY important to one, could merely be "interesting" to someone else. Recently I have been in contact with a number of local (Long Island, NY) firms that deal in older equipment. Most of them handle Telecom, PC's and maybe a few Sun's. I talked with owners/managers and left business cards (magnetic and stuck to various file cabinets etc in their offices!). I have also made phone calls and send both e-mail and snail mail to other possible sources. The more people who know that I am serious about this item, the better chance I have of obtaining one. Also I will pass on any information relating to items which I am not interested in (or simply unable to acquire). Since there is a fairly large contigent of people who are intersted in the PDP-8, any "open" post of "Hey I just found one who wants it..." will likely lead to rioting. It is my hope to get my interst well known so if anyone finds something (that they are not capable of taking), they can contact me. David V. Corbin Dynamic Concepts Sayville, New York 631-244-8487 -----Original Message----- From: Fred N. van Kempen [mailto:waltje@pdp11.nl] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:10 PM To: David V. Corbin Subject: RE: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > ps: This goes for anyone who may come across PDP-8 and/or TU-56 material. The reference to the credit card was to Michael's beef re not saving the VAX 7000, my friend :) --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 23 22:48:41 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue In-Reply-To: <0401240351.AA18106@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at Jan 23, 2004 07:51:56 PM Message-ID: <200401240448.i0O4mfpM007219@onyx.spiritone.com> > > wants one, let Jay know ;-) and tried to save the two Tek's, but I > > was too late for those.. they had just, er, died^H^H^H^Hmelted. :( > > Can we get a posse out there to arrest that guy, give him a speedy and public > trial, and take him to California gas chamber for the murder of classic > computers? That's the same guy who just murdered a VAX 7000, right? > > MS It sucks, but I'd like to point out that the guy is just doing his job. A good percentage of scrappers are more than willing to work with Hobbyists, especially if said hobbyists are willing to pay more than the scrap value for an item. If you want to blame anyone, blame the people that send the stuff to the scrappers, not the scrappers. Zane From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 23 23:24:47 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: MUNIAC References: <1074902631.2490.28.camel@dhcp-249166> Message-ID: <4012019F.7040902@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > I figure I can get 2500 instructions/second for 70 tubes, or 100 active > elements, not including the store (aka memory) which is just N x $ (eg. > how much memory can you afford?). Lots of silicon diodes (not cheating > at all, very 1958). 2500 not very good instructions, I might add. You may be able to still get germanium diodes, but I am not sure of the switching speed. Ben. From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jan 24 00:07:42 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: FW: HP2000/Access - benchmarks References: <5.1.1.6.2.20040123211407.04597b00@pop.east.cox.net> <001901c3e231$fca91480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <003f01c3e240$63d4ca60$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> sluth was for the hp 3000 and came with the opp sys as I remember..... I have seen mention of a program called SLUTH for disc drives, but my impression was that it was a 3rd party program, not HP. HP always wanted you to use their diagnostics to format the drive (plus, Access can format a pack all by itself ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 9:24 PM Subject: Re: FW: HP2000/Access - benchmarks > > Yes, GMU had an HP 2000 ACCESS system with 21MX-E processors, > > Are you sure it was 21MX-E and not 21MX-M? Just curious! > > > 7920 disc (50 > > MB of which the ACCESS operating system could only address the first 33 > > MB), 32K WORDS of RAM in each processor, 32 MUX ports, SYNC card (for > RJE), > > 7970 1600 BPI tape, and an HP 2640B terminal as the console. > > My full 2000/Access config is 2100A cpu w/32K, 2100S cpu w/32K, 7906 drive > (20mb, 15mb usable cause access sees it as a 7905), 7900A drive (10mb) 16 > Mux ports, Sync card for RJE, 7970 1600 bpi tape, 2748b paper tape punch, > 2895b paper tape reader, 7261 optical card reader, and 2610 printer :) The > 7261 and 2610 haven't been refurbed yet though. I hope to switch from 2100 > cpus to 21MX-E's at some point. > > > I was the system manager for the GMU HP 2000 from its delivery in August, > > 1978 until I left GMU in January, 1984 > > If you are ever in St. Louis, stop by and you can reminisce and boot Access > up :) > > > I used the source code and manuals to > > patch the ACCESS OS we used. > > I have a whole list of patches for 2000E, mostly with regards to terminal > handling (accepting 80 column lines instead of 72 max), baud rates, etc. > > >Was the 21MX-E twice as fast? Three > > times as fast? I can't say - too many years have gone by. > > Remember, there are like three different kinds of memory you can put in an > E, each one up the line is a fair amount faster. So, how fast the E is > depends on which of those memory types is installed. > > > If I remember correctly, a > > disc diagnostic/utility program (which I think was called SLUTH) was used > > to configure the drive. > > I have seen mention of a program called SLUTH for disc drives, but my > impression was that it was a 3rd party program, not HP. HP always wanted you > to use their diagnostics to format the drive (plus, Access can format a pack > all by itself). > > > Question: How are the 7905 and 7906 discs you are using formatted? > The 7905/06 drives can be formatted with quite a few different utilities, > most notably either the 13037/790x diagnostic, or via Access itself. > > > John > > *** When replying to this message, please do not delete these *** > > *** signature lines. Otakon Katsucon HP3000-L @classiccmp.org *** > > > > > > From lists at microvax.org Sat Jan 24 03:26:36 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: The PDP-8, PDP-11, VT100 and Tek rescue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401240926.36837.lists@microvax.org> On Saturday 24 Jan 2004 3:42 am, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Now.. I *did* spend a few hours today on tracking down that guy, > and he is still alive. We're all going to work on getting that > machine out of the danger zone, which is why I paid a large sum > of money (one year of storage past due, and one year of storage > as a bonus etc etc) to put a "hold" on it. Legally speaking, > my attorrney tells me, the debt from that guy to the scrapper > has now "moved' to me, so if he does not pay me, I can go and > pick it up. Stop worrying. It's yours now, go and pick it up and enjoy it! Someone didn't pay storrage for a year on it, it was due to be scrapped and you found it and rescued it from being melted down. It's as if you bought something from a pawn shop or debtors' auction. alex/melt From steve at lhi.net Fri Jan 23 19:14:59 2004 From: steve at lhi.net (Craig Phillips) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: help Message-ID: <000801c3e217$83488900$59b31fc6@research.aa.wl.com> I'm looking for a game I once had on an old ibm personal computer, it was vary simple, the carecter you controled looked kind of like a triangle, or an upsidedown boot. the level was an open room with a stair case of some sort leading up to a doorway near the sealing. I cant remamber much, it was years ago. But as far as i'm concerned, it was the best game ever. And i wish i could get it back, I'm fixing an old ibm to run it, but cant find the game anyware. If you have any information on this, or someone i may turn to for info, that would be great. Thanks steve@lhi.net From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Jan 24 06:25:13 2004 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: help (old game) In-Reply-To: <000801c3e217$83488900$59b31fc6@research.aa.wl.com> References: <000801c3e217$83488900$59b31fc6@research.aa.wl.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040124072106.01ae8d10@smtp.wincom.net> At 08:14 PM 23/01/2004, you wrote: >I'm looking for a game I once had on an old ibm personal computer, it was >vary simple, the carecter you controled looked kind of like a triangle, or >an upsidedown boot. >the level was an open room with a stair case of some sort leading up to a >doorway near the sealing. I cant remamber much, it was years ago. But as >far as i'm concerned, it was the best game ever. And i wish i could get it >back, I'm fixing an old ibm to run it, but cant find the game anyware. If >you have any information on this, or someone i may turn to for info, that >would be great. Thanks > > steve@lhi.net It sounds like "Continuum" where you bounce onto platforms and through doorways. I think I have it around here somewhere on a 5 1/4 disk. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 07:40:24 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401275C8.2060200@atarimuseum.com> Man, Google offline, wow that would suck.... I guess the only thing scarier then seeing Google with its pants down would be Bill Gates his down! eeeewwwwwww!!! Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>> Alive and well in Nevada... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Works here in Ohio also >> >> > >It was definitely not returning search results for me for a good 10-15 >minutes starting a few minutes before I posted that message. All I got >was a mostly blank page with the Google copyright. > >I caught Google with its pants down! HAHA! > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Jan 24 07:59:58 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Google died... References: <401275C8.2060200@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <000801c3e282$5b002d70$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Curt Vendel" > Man, Google offline, wow that would suck.... I guess the only thing > scarier then seeing Google with its pants down would be Bill Gates his > down! eeeewwwwwww!!! Bill Gates with his pants UP, is horrible enough. From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 08:23:50 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: <000801c3e282$5b002d70$2201a8c0@finans> References: <401275C8.2060200@atarimuseum.com> <000801c3e282$5b002d70$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <40127FF6.9010408@atarimuseum.com> ROTFLOL!!! Nico de Jong wrote: >From: "Curt Vendel" > > > > >>Man, Google offline, wow that would suck.... I guess the only thing >>scarier then seeing Google with its pants down would be Bill Gates his >>down! eeeewwwwwww!!! >> >> > >Bill Gates with his pants UP, is horrible enough. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jan 24 11:00:24 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay Message-ID: <002e01c3e29b$90dd0d00$92406b43@66067007> Check out the Brainiac K-30 for almost $200 I got one last year on eBay for under $25 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781740056 Check out the IMSAI http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2780544749 From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Jan 24 11:10:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay In-Reply-To: <002e01c3e29b$90dd0d00$92406b43@66067007> Message-ID: Even more amazing is that there is already a $1500 bid on the IMSAI (which has not met the reserve!) Going to be very curious to see if this does sell (if re-listed), and at what price..... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:00 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay Check out the Brainiac K-30 for almost $200 I got one last year on eBay for under $25 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781740056 Check out the IMSAI http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2780544749 From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jan 24 11:13:33 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay In-Reply-To: <002e01c3e29b$90dd0d00$92406b43@66067007> References: <002e01c3e29b$90dd0d00$92406b43@66067007> Message-ID: NOtice that the Imsai (a nicely fleshed-out system, BTW) got one bid, and the auction ended "reserve not met" - AND that the seller says someone accused him of shilling (offering to sell the package off-eBay) so it has been re-listed. However, be of good cheer! You can Buy-It-Now for the measly sum of..... [ wait for it...!] USD$3000.00 Now where's that darn checkbook.... Cheers John From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 12:42:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? References: Message-ID: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hi, I've been sitting on some Amiga, C64, Apple ][e and other disks which I've wanted to read, so for the heck of it I bought a Catweasel ISA card with DOS drivers to try out. I'm wondering if there are any seasoned experts out there that use one of these little wonders. I hooked it up into my Win 98 system and plugged in a 1.44MB IBM Floppy and a 1.2MB 5.25" IBM Floppy to it, it sees the 3.5" as Drive 0: and the 5.25" as Drive 1: When I put in a disk, it is telling me what it is, for instance an Amiga 880K or a an Apple ][ Disk. But then I get an error in German: Allgemeiner Fehler: Das Medium enthalt ein unbekanntes dateisystem Which translates to: General Error: The Media Contains an Unknown Filesystem The only problem is I'm getting this error EVERY time I go to read any of my disks, except an IBM formatted 720K diskette which actually brings up a directory, other then that I get nothing but the error above. Anyone familiar enough with the device and used it enough to know what I may be doing incorrectly, thanks for the help. CUrt From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Jan 24 12:43:35 2004 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: NIST CD/DVD preservation guidelines Message-ID: <200401241843.i0OIhZKI054938@io.crash.com> Sorry if this is a repeat; I just noticed it on slashdot, it's been out since late October. A quick search through my folder of classiccmp messages came up empty, so... NIST has issued a report titled "Care and Handling Guide for the Preservation of CDs and DVDs" from it's Digital Preservation Program. The one page summary covers what you already knew about proper handling and storage. Note that they recommend gold-based reflective layer discs for archival storage. http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/carefordisc/index.html Share and Enjoy, --Steve. From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jan 24 11:09:51 2004 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> I know that this is a bit like comparing apples and oranges but I was wondering who did what first? Phoenix produced a legal clone of IBM's system Bios, which enabled other companies to produced cheaper clones of the IBM PC. V-tech produced a legal clone of the Apple II+ ROMs, which it used in the Laser 128 (the only legal clone of the Apple II.) I'm guessing that Phoenix was first, and Laser followed their example when it decided to clone Apple's ROM codes. Is this correct? Did Phoenix set an example for the whole industry? Thanks. E. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Jan 24 13:20:34 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Not quite tubes... but still.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Interesting item on e-Bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2782674461 Old Analog computer..Played with one very similar at my dad's shop decades ago... From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 13:20:56 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? References: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> Message-ID: <002b01c3e2af$31344850$1a02a8c0@starship1> Is Pheonix really first? What about Compaq??? Did they produce the first PC clones? What BIOS did they use, is it what Pheonix became? I had always thought Lazer was the first Apple Clone??? We used to have more of those then real Apple ]['s in college back in 84-88 Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:09 PM Subject: Who was first? > I know that this is a bit like comparing apples and oranges but I was > wondering who did what first? > > Phoenix produced a legal clone of IBM's system Bios, which enabled other > companies to produced cheaper clones of the IBM PC. > > V-tech produced a legal clone of the Apple II+ ROMs, which it used in > the Laser 128 (the only legal clone of the Apple II.) > > I'm guessing that Phoenix was first, and Laser followed their example > when it decided to clone Apple's ROM codes. Is this correct? Did Phoenix > set an example for the whole industry? > > Thanks. > > E. > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 24 13:45:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Ernest wrote: > I know that this is a bit like comparing apples and oranges but I was > wondering who did what first? > > Phoenix produced a legal clone of IBM's system Bios, which enabled other > companies to produced cheaper clones of the IBM PC. > > V-tech produced a legal clone of the Apple II+ ROMs, which it used in > the Laser 128 (the only legal clone of the Apple II.) > > I'm guessing that Phoenix was first, and Laser followed their example > when it decided to clone Apple's ROM codes. Is this correct? Did Phoenix > set an example for the whole industry? I'm not sure (my guess is Phoenix since the Laser didn't come out until around 1983/84) but I'm pretty sure "cleanroom" reverse engineering has been around longer than that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 24 13:46:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002b01c3e2af$31344850$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > I had always thought Lazer was the first Apple Clone??? We used to have > more of those then real Apple ]['s in college back in 84-88 Franklin, I believe, came out with the "first" (as far as is known) Apple ][ clone. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 13:53:49 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ernest > Sent: 24 January 2004 17:10 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Who was first? > > I know that this is a bit like comparing apples and oranges but I was > wondering who did what first? > > Phoenix produced a legal clone of IBM's system Bios, which enabled other > companies to produced cheaper clones of the IBM PC. Phoenix? I thought it was Compaq in 1982-3 when they spent several million dollars making a non-copyright infringing compatible BIOS for the Compaq Portable? Again, I could be wrong :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 13:54:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? References: Message-ID: <000601c3e2b3$d0916a00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Ah yes, Franklin!!! Wow, jarring the cobwebs! :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:46 PM Subject: Re: Who was first? > On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > > I had always thought Lazer was the first Apple Clone??? We used to have > > more of those then real Apple ]['s in college back in 84-88 > > Franklin, I believe, came out with the "first" (as far as is known) Apple > ][ clone. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 14:05:57 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 24 January 2004 19:47 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Who was first? > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > > I had always thought Lazer was the first Apple Clone??? We > used to have > > more of those then real Apple ]['s in college back in 84-88 > > Franklin, I believe, came out with the "first" (as far as is known) Apple > ][ clone. Aye, and they were the first to get sued by Apple for doing so :) w From r.lasbury at ntlworld.com Sat Jan 24 13:45:31 2004 From: r.lasbury at ntlworld.com (Robin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Mouse for a DEC ?? Message-ID: <000e01c3e2b2$a377a850$0200a8c0@Gamma> Peter Thanks for the kind offer of the DEC mouse. Are you local to the UK? Robin _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1533 Spam messages and set aside 222 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com From fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de Sat Jan 24 13:52:36 2004 From: fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: www.emulation.net seems to be gone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1AkTpc-1S1Jfk0@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:45:16 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> > They had emulations of several classic computers that >> > ran under mac os, on powerPCz >> > >> > I can't seem to get them, can anyone? maybee there are some infos.. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.emulation.net Mit freundlichen Gruessen Fritz Chwolka From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 24 15:07:40 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Google died... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074977645.9200.52.camel@weka.localdomain> > It was definitely not returning search results for me for a good 10-15 > minutes starting a few minutes before I posted that message. All I got > was a mostly blank page with the Google copyright. That sort of behaviour happens a lot here - the "transparent" web caches that my ISP uses (NTL, so one of the bigger outfits over here) regularly fall over and give the same symptoms you describe; timeouts and very slow page loads are common, whilst some sites appar down yet others are fine. How they haven't managed to fix the problem in the year that it's been happening is beyond me! Being transparent of course means the web browser knows nothing about them... until they stop working. Usually the whole pool doesn't fail, so knowing the IP addresses of them usually means I can force the web browser to use a specific one that's still functioning - until the whole lot comes back online. Bloody annoying if you ask me! cheers Jules From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Jan 24 16:59:55 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? References: Message-ID: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> Might have been a tie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible says that Columbia came up with an IBM clone in early 1982. Steve Weyhrich in his Apple history timeline puts the Franklin 100 (1000?) in March 1982. http://apple2history.org/history/appy/ahb3.html Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: RE: Who was first? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > > Festival > > Sent: 24 January 2004 19:47 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Who was first? > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > > > > I had always thought Lazer was the first Apple Clone??? We > > used to have > > > more of those then real Apple ]['s in college back in 84-88 > > > > Franklin, I believe, came out with the "first" (as far as is known) Apple > > ][ clone. > > Aye, and they were the first to get sued by Apple for doing so :) > > w > From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Jan 24 17:05:13 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <003f01c3e2ce$97d588c0$0300a8c0@look.ca> I have an Executive Partner, built-in printer etc. Plasma isn't it? As I recall my screen is colored a bit, pink maybe? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Fandt" To: "ClassicCmp List" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 2:50 PM Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 17:39:44 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney > Sent: 24 January 2004 23:00 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Who was first? > > > Might have been a tie. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible says that Columbia came up > with an IBM clone in early 1982. > Here's another one: http://webpages.charter.net/dperr/trivia.htm It says the first compatible was the Columbia MPC in June 1982, but doesn't say why the Compaq portable is well known while the Columbia MPC is a faded memory. It also leads to a website wanting $20 for a complete timeline. I think I'll just get a book out the library. Ah, http://www.piclist.com/techref/intel/8086.HTM THAT explains it :) Compaq's was the first BIOS to be 100% IBM-PC compatible. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 24 17:40:22 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus Message-ID: I've *finally* gotten the network problems I've been fighting at home resolved. It looks as if my Intel 10/100 24-port Switch has decided that it no longer wants anything to do with 10Mbit . Anyhow, I've moved my home network back to my old 8-port 10/100 hub and a 8-port 10Mbit hub, and everything is happy (thankfully the 24-port is serious overkill at the moment). As a result I now have managed to get the VT420 on the DECserver 90L+ to reliably talk to my DEC PWS 433au, and my Ethertalk-to-Localtalk converter is working again so my VMS server and Mac can once again print. Life is good. Now that things are straightened back out, it's time to get back to something fun, namely getting my RSTS/E system talking on my network :^) During the network issues I managed to get DECnet/E installed on my PDP-11/73, and had managed to do a directory listing (unreliably though) of the RSTS/E system. I'm now able to reliably list directories on the RSTS/E system. More importantly I have LAT working, so I can log in from my DECserver!!!! What isn't working is the following: Getting a directory of the VMS system from RSTS/E Copying files between the two systems Logging in from one system to the other Has anyone tried getting a system running DECnet/E (Phase IV) to talk to a system running DECnet-Plus? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 24 17:14:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem In-Reply-To: from "vrs" at Jan 23, 4 08:10:51 pm Message-ID: > I found a 9 pin connector behind the selector magnet driver. I had to That's it. > remove the selector magnet driver and bracket to get at it. I disconnected > it, then put the selector magnet driver back in it's socket (left bracket > off for now). Doesn't matter. The selector magnet driver is a little module consisting of a power transformer, the PCB, a power transistor, and not much else. All the external connections go through that 9 pin connector (2 of which, IIRC, are mains to the transformer, so be careful). You could have left the PCB out. > > I no longer get the +20V spikes on the line, so I guess the problem lies on > the selector magnet driver card? Sounds like it. > > BTW the thing chatters even in local mode now, probably because the selector > magnet is never doing it's thing? Yes. With that 9 pin connector unplugged, the selector magnet is disconected. The machine will therefore 'space out' (a telegraph term for a teleprinter that runs continuosly because it's receiving continuous 'space' -- often due to an open-circuit current loop). > > So, is there a theory of operation somewhere for the selector magnet driver? > I can't follow what the schematic is doing at all. IIRC, it's strange. The selector magnet driver applies a current to the Rx Loop that is _cancelled_ by the normal loop current. Now, I can't really remember the schematic, but is there some kind of clamping diode across the input, I wonder. If that was open-circuit, the selector magnet driver could provide the 20V open-circuit voltage at the loop terminals. -tony From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 17:46:45 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney > Sent: 24 January 2004 23:00 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Who was first? > > > Might have been a tie. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible says that Columbia came up > with an IBM clone in early 1982. > And here's a pic :) http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=633 Might've known they'd have one! -- w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 17:54:23 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: 24 January 2004 23:40 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus > > Has anyone tried getting a system running DECnet/E (Phase IV) to > talk to a system running DECnet-Plus? Yes, back when I did this sort of thing for a living. I got as far as working out that the PhaseIV system had to be registered using DECNET$REGISTER but usually ended up looking in dismay at the mountain of docs needed to administer OSI (aka DECnet-Plus) and gave up. None of my customers ever needed OSI apart from one, and that was because they still had X25 links and had upgraded to Alpha 4100s. What a nightmare that was. cheers -- w From vrs at msn.com Sat Jan 24 18:16:48 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: ASR-33 problem References: Message-ID: > > So, is there a theory of operation somewhere for the selector magnet driver? > > I can't follow what the schematic is doing at all. > > IIRC, it's strange. The selector magnet driver applies a current to the > Rx Loop that is _cancelled_ by the normal loop current. I did find a couple of paragraphs about the theory of operation, and yes, the mark current is supposed to cancel the default negative bias of the little transistor, which acts rather like an inverter stage before the power transistor. I am still lost about the wierd emitter bias potentimeter and the "regenerative feedback" it is supposed to provide. > Now, I can't really remember the schematic, but is there some kind of > clamping diode across the input, I wonder. If that was open-circuit, the > selector magnet driver could provide the 20V open-circuit voltage at the > loop terminals. I'll go check that it really does clamp the negative bias to 5V like it is supposed to. I am still unsure where the +20V is coming from, since the +20V side is apparently connected to the "-" side of the computer interface. Seems like everything else should be more negative than that. Hmm. Maybe I just partially answered my own question. When the transistor in the interface is on, the "+" and "-" ends are "connected". That would surface the 20V+ on the "+" side of the TTY interface. But that would mean something tied the "-" end of the TTY's 20V supply to ground. Aren't those supplies supposed to float? Vince From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jan 24 18:24:45 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:47 2005 Subject: Two HP calculators at Goodwill Today Message-ID: <013a01c3e2d9$a38ad070$92406b43@66067007> They had a HP 32sII and a HP 27S at the Goodwill today for $24.99 each. I tried to talk the manager down on the price but no luck since this was the first day out for both. So I got the 32 and left the 27. Now I'm downloading the 396 page manual for it from hp's website. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 24 18:37:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Might have been a tie. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible says that Columbia came up > with an IBM clone in early 1982. > > Steve Weyhrich in his Apple history timeline puts the Franklin 100 (1000?) > in March 1982. > http://apple2history.org/history/appy/ahb3.html It's the Franklin 100, which used ROMs copied from an Apple ][+, and therefore violating Apple's copyrights. The 1000 was the later model that had the "legal" ROMs. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 24 18:38:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040124163109.W31590@newshell.lmi.net> > Ah, > http://www.piclist.com/techref/intel/8086.HTM > THAT explains it :) Compaq's was the first BIOS to be 100% IBM-PC > compatible. NO WAY. 99 44/100 % maybe. "There can NEVER be 100% compatability without copyright infringement." For example: The IBM-PC (5150) and subsequent models (XT, AT) had a byte at FFFF:000E (second to last byte in RAM) that identified the model. Compaq failed to implement that, and numerous other MINOR incompatabilities. (Compaq's response to developers was to recommend searching a range of RAM for the string "COMPAQ") Compaq loves to claim first in everything, but there were lots of little companies that preceded them in almost everything. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 24 18:38:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Two HP calculators at Goodwill Today In-Reply-To: <013a01c3e2d9$a38ad070$92406b43@66067007> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Keys wrote: > They had a HP 32sII and a HP 27S at the Goodwill today for $24.99 each. I > tried to talk the manager down on the price but no luck since this was the > first day out for both. So I got the 32 and left the 27. Now I'm downloading > the 396 page manual for it from hp's website. Hooray. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 24 18:47:05 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? In-Reply-To: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: >General Error: The Media Contains an Unknown Filesystem I bought a Zorro2 card a few years ago, back when I was still playing with micro's. Personally I thought the product was SERIOUSLY misrepresented. They claimed it could read a whole slew of disk formats, when in reality the Amiga version of the board was able to read Amiga and C-64 floppies (and I think I might have gotten it to read DOS and Mac as well using some 3rd party drivers). While it might be physically capable of reading all the formats that they advertise, the drivers to read them don't exist. Having said that, you might want to investigate Linux support for the board, I think you might find it to be much better. Also, WinUAE, and some other emulators might support it. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 24 18:49:44 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? In-Reply-To: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20040124164427.W31590@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > General Error: The Media Contains an Unknown Filesystem > Anyone familiar enough with the device and used it enough to know what I may > be doing incorrectly, thanks for the help. Are you trying to duplicate (or store images of) disks? Or are you trying to access the data stored on those disks. One requires hardware capability and some minimal low level software. The other requires software that can parse and handle the file system and directory structures for a different kind of file system. Check with Tim Mann, he is the foremost expert on CatWeasel. And be careful of people who talk about what COULD be done, without mentioning the added software required! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 18:54:17 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <20040124163109.W31590@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin > Sent: 25 January 2004 00:38 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Who was first? > > > > Ah, > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/intel/8086.HTM > > THAT explains it :) Compaq's was the first BIOS to be 100% IBM-PC > > compatible. > > NO WAY. > 99 44/100 % maybe. > "There can NEVER be 100% compatability without copyright infringement." > I knew my post would get a response from you :o)) -- w From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 24 18:57:59 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jan 24, 2004 03:40:22 PM Message-ID: <20040125005759.0F1E47F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Has anyone tried getting a system running DECnet/E (Phase IV) to talk to a system running DECnet-Plus? I have gotten a lot of DECnet-IV systems talking to DECnet-Plus. What you'll need to do is register the DECnet-IV systems and then flush the naming cache. I'm pretty sure that you'll want to use the menu-based method to register the systems, so make sure you are using a VT100-compatible terminal and have set the terminal characteristics properly on the VMS system. The utility you use to register systems is SYS$SYSTEM:DECNET_REGISTER. Register the DECnet-IV node with the DECnet address of LOCAL:.nodename and the Phase-IV alias of nodename. The type of connection to use with the Phase-IV system is NSP. After the node is registered you'll need to flush the naming cache. Use the following command: $ mcr ncl flush session control naming cache entry "*" After that, you should be able to connect to the Phase-IV system. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 19:10:59 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401317A3.5020205@atarimuseum.com> Makes sense.... even though a switch is really just a bank of bridges, for decnet you're better off with a hub. Though I haven't run into localtalk issues to date with using switches. Curt Zane H. Healy wrote: >I've *finally* gotten the network problems I've been fighting at home resolved. It looks as if my Intel 10/100 24-port Switch has decided that it no longer wants anything to do with 10Mbit . Anyhow, I've moved my home network back to my old 8-port 10/100 hub and a 8-port 10Mbit hub, and everything is happy (thankfully the 24-port is serious overkill at the moment). > >As a result I now have managed to get the VT420 on the DECserver 90L+ to reliably talk to my DEC PWS 433au, and my Ethertalk-to-Localtalk converter is working again so my VMS server and Mac can once again print. Life is good. > >Now that things are straightened back out, it's time to get back to something fun, namely getting my RSTS/E system talking on my network :^) > >During the network issues I managed to get DECnet/E installed on my PDP-11/73, and had managed to do a directory listing (unreliably though) of the RSTS/E system. I'm now able to reliably list directories on the RSTS/E system. More importantly I have LAT working, so I can log in from my DECserver!!!! > >What isn't working is the following: >Getting a directory of the VMS system from RSTS/E >Copying files between the two systems >Logging in from one system to the other > >Has anyone tried getting a system running DECnet/E (Phase IV) to talk to a system running DECnet-Plus? > > Zane > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 19:21:58 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <20040125005759.0F1E47F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman > Sent: 25 January 2004 00:58 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus > > After the node is registered you'll need to flush the naming > cache. Use the > following command: > > $ mcr ncl flush session control naming cache entry "*" After all these years that was the command I was missing.......grrr..... -- w From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 24 19:29:52 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? In-Reply-To: References: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20040124165916.A31590@newshell.lmi.net> Multiple choice: "It can read xxxx disks" means: A. It has the physical capability to be able to handle the physical encoding, if somebody were to write appropriate software to do so - none currently exists. B. It can read the physical disk, and has software that will permit making an exact duplicate of the disk and/or creating a file that contains an image used for replicating the disk. C. It COULD transfer a byte for byte image of a file from certain "alien" disk formats to and from a local disk of the host computer, IFF somebody were to write such software (not currently in existence). D. It has (or IS) software to transfer a byte for byte image of a file from certain "alien" disk formats to and from a local disk of the host computer. (XenoCopy, Media Master, Uniform, 22Disk) E. It can "mount" disks of certain formats, and access files on them with what appear to be "normal" OS operations (Uniform) F. When it access a file on the disk of certain formats, it will also translate formatting codes into those of your current aps (open a Kaypro Wordstar file with Office Word XP) With XenoCopy, I had to expend an enormous amount of effort making it clear to people that it did category D above, NOT F. (The Kaypro Wordstar file is copied into a PC Wordstar file) The Cat Weasel appears to be able to do A, C, and maybe B. There are way too many situations where use of the phrase "can read xxxx disks" is ASSUMED to mean D, E, or F, and there isn't always enough effort made to clarify! The result is expectations of being able to use it for things that it isn't ready for [YET?]. I just wish that NOBODY would EVER say "can read xxxx disks" without clarifying which definition is intended. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >General Error: The Media Contains an Unknown Filesystem > > I bought a Zorro2 card a few years ago, back when I was still playing with micro's. Personally I thought the product was SERIOUSLY misrepresented. They claimed it could read a whole slew of disk formats, when in reality the Amiga version of the board was able to read Amiga and C-64 floppies (and I think I might have gotten it to read DOS and Mac as well using some 3rd party drivers). > > While it might be physically capable of reading all the formats that they advertise, the drivers to read them don't exist. > > Having said that, you might want to investigate Linux support for the board, I think you might find it to be much better. Also, WinUAE, and some other emulators might support it. > > Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 24 19:38:57 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <401317A3.5020205@atarimuseum.com> References: <401317A3.5020205@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: >Makes sense.... even though a switch is really just a bank of bridges, for decnet you're better off with a hub. Though I haven't run into localtalk issues to date with using switches. I've run DECnet through switches without any difficulty, just not this switch. It was handling the Ethertalk-to-Localtalk converter just fine, then slowly got more erratic. Same with LAT. It about drove me crazy trying to figure out what was going wrong. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 24 19:45:58 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040124173422.R31590@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > THAT explains it :) Compaq's was the first BIOS to be 100% IBM-PC > > > compatible. > > NO WAY. > > 99 44/100 % maybe. > > "There can NEVER be 100% compatability without copyright infringement." > I knew my post would get a response from you :o)) I will concede that Compaq was the first "practical" "large scale" "commercial" compatible. But it sure wasn't 100%, and I had owned several DOS machines and written the first version of XenoCopy before Compaq released their first model. I used one of the first Compaqs (on loan from Compaq) when I added the support for WRITING alien formats to XenoCopy. I liked the machine a lot. (except the keyboard latches had too short a throw and the handle was too soft) Later, PC World used an earlier (1.0) version of XenoCopy to demonstrate that NOTHING was completely compatible! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Jan 24 19:57:40 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? In-Reply-To: <20040124165916.A31590@newshell.lmi.net> References: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040124165916.A31590@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <40132294.8000603@pacbell.net> Fred Cisin wrote: > Multiple choice: > "It can read xxxx disks" means: > ... > > B. It can read the physical disk, and has software that will > permit making an exact duplicate of the disk and/or creating > a file that contains an image used for replicating the disk. ... > The Cat Weasel appears to be able to do A, C, and maybe B. Actually, I'm mucking with a catweasel card right now. I took Tim Mann's code as a starting point and I'm going from there. I don't have any use for his decoding routines nor of making virtual disk images since my needs are different. However, I can't imagine how many hours of work he saved me by having routines that locate the card in PCI space. Also, his "trackhist" program provided some very useful subroutines. With the help of Tim's code, it took me less time to modify/write the code to decode the disk format than it did to rig up the 34-pin to 50-pin ribbon cable adapter. Anyway, I can provide an example disk format where the catweasel, as it stands, can't write the disk image, at least not without some dodgey trial & error (try to write a track, read it back and if it is mucked up, try and adjust the write timing for the next attempt. Even then, there is a lot of luck involved). Hard sectored disks are a problem for the catweasel to write. There is a function to write from index mark to index mark, except the catweasel assumes there is just a single index mark per revolution. Thus, you can write one sector, but you can't even reliably tell it which sector you want -- it just starts at the next index hole that appears. Perhaps under DOS you can disable interrupts and figure out via polling when sector N is about to appear and use index-to-index write mode. Even this doesn't suffice for the disk format used by the Processor Tech Helios system. It ignored every other sector mark so that effectively there were 16 256B sectors instead of 32 128B sectors. Further, blocks of data could be larger than 256B -- they simply spanned more than one sector. Thus, this mode is useless for that scheme. You can do a write where you specify "wait for an index hole, then write this sequence of transitions". The problem is that due to speed variations you can't say that index 5 is going to come exactly (166 2/3 ms / 32) after index 4. That is where you could try to write the whole track, then read everything back to see if you succeeded and if not, adjust the clock pulses wider or shorter to make things line up. Oh yeah, in this mode I think it doesn't wait for an index hole, it just goes whenever you tell it to, so good luck trying to get the data to line up with the index marks at all. As it turns out, now that I have the catweasel set up and running, there are three disk formats that I would personally find useful to be able to decode -- 8" Helios, 8" Wang 2200, and 5.25" Northstar. Guess what -- all three are hard sectored formats. Luckily, I'm really only looking to use it to archive virtual disk images, not to create new disks. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 24 20:02:37 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <20040124173422.R31590@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin > Sent: 25 January 2004 01:46 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Who was first? > > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > > THAT explains it :) Compaq's was the first BIOS to be 100% IBM-PC > > > > compatible. > > > NO WAY. > > > 99 44/100 % maybe. > > > "There can NEVER be 100% compatability without copyright > infringement." > > I knew my post would get a response from you :o)) > > I will concede that Compaq was the first "practical" "large scale" > "commercial" compatible. Sadly that's the one most people care about. > But it sure wasn't 100%, and I had owned several DOS machines > and written the first version of XenoCopy before Compaq released > their first model. As I think we all know, it's not the innovators that get the recognition per se, but the people that make the most noise. I got my first Osborne 1 last week and there's nothing remarkable about it; hells, it looks like a repackaged TRS80 Model III. Like you said in an email, it wasn't the first portable by a long chalk but which one does everyone remember? -- w From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Jan 24 20:23:50 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? References: Message-ID: <002301c3e2ea$5774c180$0300a8c0@look.ca> > it wasn't the first > portable by a long chalk but which one does everyone remember? Since the first portable was the Hyperion and I have a basement full of them, I'm hoping that people have long memories. BM From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 20:25:41 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? In-Reply-To: <20040124165916.A31590@newshell.lmi.net> References: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040124165916.A31590@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <40132925.4060104@atarimuseum.com> Hmmmm, This isn't sounding too positive, hey Sellam you still got that Apple //C I can buy from you? Perhaps I should pickup an Amiga 2K too..... Curt Fred Cisin wrote: >Multiple choice: >"It can read xxxx disks" means: > >A. It has the physical capability to be able to handle the physical >encoding, if somebody were to write appropriate software to do so - >none currently exists. > >B. It can read the physical disk, and has software that will >permit making an exact duplicate of the disk and/or creating >a file that contains an image used for replicating the disk. > >C. It COULD transfer a byte for byte image of a file from certain >"alien" disk formats to and from a local disk of the host computer, >IFF somebody were to write such software (not currently in existence). > >D. It has (or IS) software to transfer a byte for byte image of a >file from certain "alien" disk formats to and from a local disk of >the host computer. (XenoCopy, Media Master, Uniform, 22Disk) > >E. It can "mount" disks of certain formats, and access files on >them with what appear to be "normal" OS operations (Uniform) > >F. When it access a file on the disk of certain formats, it will >also translate formatting codes into those of your current aps >(open a Kaypro Wordstar file with Office Word XP) > > >With XenoCopy, I had to expend an enormous amount of effort >making it clear to people that it did category D above, NOT F. >(The Kaypro Wordstar file is copied into a PC Wordstar file) > >The Cat Weasel appears to be able to do A, C, and maybe B. >There are way too many situations where use of the phrase >"can read xxxx disks" is ASSUMED to mean D, E, or F, >and there isn't always enough effort made to clarify! >The result is expectations of being able to use it for >things that it isn't ready for [YET?]. > > >I just wish that NOBODY would EVER say "can read xxxx disks" >without clarifying which definition is intended. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > > >On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >>>General Error: The Media Contains an Unknown Filesystem >>> >>> >>I bought a Zorro2 card a few years ago, back when I was still playing with micro's. Personally I thought the product was SERIOUSLY misrepresented. They claimed it could read a whole slew of disk formats, when in reality the Amiga version of the board was able to read Amiga and C-64 floppies (and I think I might have gotten it to read DOS and Mac as well using some 3rd party drivers). >> >>While it might be physically capable of reading all the formats that they advertise, the drivers to read them don't exist. >> >>Having said that, you might want to investigate Linux support for the board, I think you might find it to be much better. Also, WinUAE, and some other emulators might support it. >> >> Zane >> >> > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From wayne.smith at charter.net Sat Jan 24 20:35:12 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002301c3e2ea$5774c180$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <000b01c3e2eb$df1e4240$6401a8c0@Wayne> > > it wasn't the first > > portable by a long chalk but which one does everyone remember? > > Since the first portable was the Hyperion and I have a > basement full of them, I'm hoping that people have long memories. > I think the first one to "call" itself a "portable" was the "IBM 5100 Portable Computer" - circa 1975 (although I think there might have been a 1950s computer that also called itself a "portable" in that you could move it around on a truck). -W From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 24 20:38:50 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? In-Reply-To: <40132294.8000603@pacbell.net> References: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040124165916.A31590@newshell.lmi.net> <40132294.8000603@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <40132C3A.8050001@atarimuseum.com> I just want to do a catdir and catcopy of the disks I have and copy the contents to my local PC hard disk. I have a bunch of C64(5.25) , Amiga 800's(3.5) and Apple ][ disks (5.25) Occassionally it'll read a C64 disk, no luck with the others. Curt Jim Battle wrote: > Fred Cisin wrote: > >> Multiple choice: >> "It can read xxxx disks" means: >> > ... > >> >> B. It can read the physical disk, and has software that will >> permit making an exact duplicate of the disk and/or creating >> a file that contains an image used for replicating the disk. > > ... > >> The Cat Weasel appears to be able to do A, C, and maybe B. > > > Actually, I'm mucking with a catweasel card right now. > > I took Tim Mann's code as a starting point and I'm going from there. > I don't have any use for his decoding routines nor of making virtual > disk images since my needs are different. However, I can't imagine > how many hours of work he saved me by having routines that locate the > card in PCI space. Also, his "trackhist" program provided some very > useful subroutines. With the help of Tim's code, it took me less time > to modify/write the code to decode the disk format than it did to rig > up the 34-pin to 50-pin ribbon cable adapter. > > Anyway, I can provide an example disk format where the catweasel, as > it stands, can't write the disk image, at least not without some > dodgey trial & error (try to write a track, read it back and if it is > mucked up, try and adjust the write timing for the next attempt. Even > then, there is a lot of luck involved). > > Hard sectored disks are a problem for the catweasel to write. There > is a function to write from index mark to index mark, except the > catweasel assumes there is just a single index mark per revolution. > Thus, you can write one sector, but you can't even reliably tell it > which sector you want -- it just starts at the next index hole that > appears. Perhaps under DOS you can disable interrupts and figure out > via polling when sector N is about to appear and use index-to-index > write mode. Even this doesn't suffice for the disk format used by the > Processor Tech Helios system. It ignored every other sector mark so > that effectively there were 16 256B sectors instead of 32 128B > sectors. Further, blocks of data could be larger than 256B -- they > simply spanned more than one sector. Thus, this mode is useless for > that scheme. > > You can do a write where you specify "wait for an index hole, then > write this sequence of transitions". The problem is that due to speed > variations you can't say that index 5 is going to come exactly (166 > 2/3 ms / 32) after index 4. That is where you could try to write the > whole track, then read everything back to see if you succeeded and if > not, adjust the clock pulses wider or shorter to make things line up. > Oh yeah, in this mode I think it doesn't wait for an index hole, it > just goes whenever you tell it to, so good luck trying to get the data > to line up with the index marks at all. > > As it turns out, now that I have the catweasel set up and running, > there are three disk formats that I would personally find useful to be > able to decode -- 8" Helios, 8" Wang 2200, and 5.25" Northstar. Guess > what -- all three are hard sectored formats. Luckily, I'm really only > looking to use it to archive virtual disk images, not to create new > disks. > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 24 21:38:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <20040125005759.0F1E47F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20040125005759.0F1E47F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >I have gotten a lot of DECnet-IV systems talking to DECnet-Plus. What you'll >need to do is register the DECnet-IV systems and then flush the naming cache. I've done this with RSX-11M and VAX/VMS without any problem, it's DECnet/E that seems to be the problem. I don't know if I've failed to set something up correctly on the RSTS/E side, or what. >After that, you should be able to connect to the Phase-IV system. Directory Service: Local name file Node name: LOCAL:.rstse Phase IV synonym: RSTSE Address tower protocol and selector values: Session: DNA_SessionControlV2 (SC2) 00 13 Transport: DNA_NSP (NSP) (no selector value) Routing: DNA_OSInetwork (CLNS) 49::00-3C:AA-00-04-00-97-F2:20 (60.663) Number of nodes reported on: 1 $ set host rstse %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node $ On the RSTS/E system console, I get the following: Event type 34.1, Object spawn failure Occurred 10-Jan-17 17:40:49.5 on node 60.663 (RSTSE) Reason: Unknown Object identification Source node = 1.652 Source process = 0 0 0 HEALYZH Destination Process = 42 There are a couple of odd things about this error, one is that "SHOW DATE" on the RSTS/E system shows 24-JAN-04 05:40 PM, so it looks like DECnet/E has a Y2k problem. The other is that the source node is 60.652, not 1.652 like the error message states. The Y2k error shouldn't be a problem, as my RSX-11M system works with the wrong date. On a positive note, I finally got things setup so I can connect to the RSTS/E system via LAT from the VMS system :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jan 24 21:54:23 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Documents posted tonight plus other news Message-ID: <001501c3e2f6$ebf6fb50$8201a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello all: Tonight I posted complete scans of the "KIM-1 User Notes" newsletter (issues 0 to 17) and AIMInteractive (issues 3-8), courtesy of Jack Rubin. Thank you Jack! Also, just a quick update on the status of the Altair32 project. I'm about 90% there on a "v2.6" release of the emulator. There have been quite a few changes, including some better graphics for the cassette/paper tape and line printer, support for the 88ACR and 88-LPC/LPR devices, plus a host of other changes that improve code execution speed. With the help of another contributor, the source code is now compatible with the LCC-Win32 compiler. Version 2.6 should be released by mid-March I would think. Enjoy the KIM and AIM stuff. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 24 21:55:34 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha Message-ID: <541A5FA4-4EEA-11D8-AC24-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> I want one. I can use a PCI, ISA, EISA, MCA (PS/2 or RS/6k), NuBus or QBus adapter. The main requirement is that hardware + software be able to low-level format disks to RX02. I have a YE Data YD-180 drive from an AS/400 that looks brand new. According to a couple of comp.os.cpm posts, it's a standard interface DSDD 1.2MB drive with DC24V/DC5V input. So far so good, and I have a couple of older ISA floppy controllers that should talk to it (right?), but I need a controller cable and power pinout for it. For that matter, between the DE9 power connector on the IBM sled and the power input on the drive itself, there's a small PDB that looks like it might be a transformer or step-down. Anybody know what voltage the AS/400 feeds it? Anybody happen to have an 8" enclosure and PSU they don't want? And, most importantly, that drive *will* format a disk as IBM 3740 format, right? I have 3 computers with RX02 drives, about 300 bulk-erased floppies, and no way to make the floppies useful in those drives*, and that's starting to p_ss me off. * a couple of places I can trade degaussed disks for formatted at varying ratios, and that's probably the cheapest way to go, but that's hardly the point, right? Doc From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jan 24 22:13:02 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay In-Reply-To: <002e01c3e29b$90dd0d00$92406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <0a7901c3e2f9$8696a6e0$947ba8c0@p933> The seller of that IMSAI contacted me a month or so ago with a much more "aggressive" price for the machine. I told her she was completely nuts and gave her a better estimate. Her current $2,000 BIN is probably still too high, but it's tons closer to reality then where she and her dad started out. Those old toy computers just seem to get more expensive every week. . . at least in eBay-land. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:00 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay Check out the Brainiac K-30 for almost $200 I got one last year on eBay for under $25 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781740056 Check out the IMSAI http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2780544749 From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Jan 25 00:41:34 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha References: <541A5FA4-4EEA-11D8-AC24-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <001101c3e30e$47472cc0$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Doc Shipley" > I have a YE Data YD-180 drive Lucky you. I have 1 or 2 too, but they are getting hard to find (in Europe anyhow) > According to a couple of comp.os.cpm posts, it's a standard interface > DSDD 1.2MB drive with DC24V/DC5V input. Correct > And, most importantly, that drive *will* format a disk as IBM 3740 > format, right? Yes, physically. The drive as such is stupid, so it will depend on your drivers It can read and write anything from SSSD (= 251K) to DSDD (1.1 M) Remember though, that track 0 always is formatted as SSSD. Contact me if you need more info Nico From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Jan 25 00:49:18 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? References: <002601c3e2a9$d09c4b00$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040124165916.A31590@newshell.lmi.net> <40132294.8000603@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <001801c3e30f$5abc4b90$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Jim Battle" > there are three disk formats that I would personally find useful to be able to > decode -- 8" Helios, 8" Wang 2200, and 5.25" Northstar. Guess what -- > all three are hard sectored formats. I just checked my format list, and guess what : I found Wang 2200, meaning that the logical format of the Wang 2200 is known. The other ones I couldnt find, but that does not mean that they cannot be read. I will probably be able to take diskdumps. They might even be known under other names. If could have a couple of disks, I would be happy to try it out Nico PS : nobody ever reacted on my idea of setting up a MSB. Not "most significant bits", but "museum service bureau". Am I that far off ? From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 01:59:38 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: MUNIAC In-Reply-To: <4012019F.7040902@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <1074902631.2490.28.camel@dhcp-249166> <4012019F.7040902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1075016832.7959.69.camel@fiche> On Fri, 2004-01-23 at 21:24, ben franchuk wrote: > You may be able to still get germanium diodes, but I am not sure of the > switching speed. Nahh, I don't want to be that authentic :-) I could very well simulate the craptacular devices of 1955 by parallelling a 1n3164 type with a 100K resistor and a 5pF cap... ! From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 02:06:38 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> References: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> Message-ID: <1075017254.7959.77.camel@fiche> On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 09:09, Ernest wrote: > I'm guessing that Phoenix was first, and Laser followed their example > when it decided to clone Apple's ROM codes. Is this correct? Did Phoenix > set an example for the whole industry? I worked for Phoenix precisely at that time, and in fact turned down the work (I had done all their "portable BIOS" stuff that preceded it) and moved to San Francisco. What they did was to find "virgins", programmers who had never seen the IBM PC Tech Ref, nor even had written 808x code! They found some TI 9900 programmers (who wrote appropriately odd-looking code, I hear :-) Someone pored over the Tech Ref and created an "interface specification" from it. eg call points, charset tables, irq vectors, etc. This spec was given to the programmers who wrote the code, and another bunch that tested. THe REAL issue was legal -- plausible deniability. Absolutly and utterly NO CHEATING was done and they could prove it in court. It wasnt' jsut that PSA was worried about suit, but their customers would be reluctant to buy it without such an assurance. I believe the project started in 1983. Preliminary work could have been 1982. From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 02:09:13 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Not quite tubes... but still.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075017408.8048.80.camel@fiche> On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 11:20, David V. Corbin wrote: > Interesting item on e-Bay > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2782674461 > > Old Analog computer..Played with one very similar at my dad's shop decades > ago... COOL! YOu could plug up a nuclear reactor simultor complete with Xe poisoning simulation, as illustrated in all those old books... :-) From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 02:12:31 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002b01c3e2af$31344850$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> <002b01c3e2af$31344850$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <1075017606.7961.85.camel@fiche> On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 11:20, Curt vendel wrote: > Is Pheonix really first? What about Compaq??? Did they produce the first > PC clones? What BIOS did they use, is it what Pheonix became? The early Compaq's were NOT fully IBM PC compatible. Hell, I had a multibuss MSDOS machine that did all the main int 0xxh calls that PC BIOS suppported, including "memory mapped video", on my TVI terminal. Real compatibility was hard. There were all sorts of weird copy-protection schemes that relied on strange side effects of the IBM PC to work, like absoluete execution times and other horrors that made it all difficult. This is the stuff that PSA solved. THey earned their money. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 25 03:43:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Witchy wrote: > As I think we all know, it's not the innovators that get the recognition per > se, but the people that make the most noise. I got my first Osborne 1 last > week and there's nothing remarkable about it; hells, it looks like a > repackaged TRS80 Model III. Like you said in an email, it wasn't the first > portable by a long chalk but which one does everyone remember? Marketing is everything... Case in point: MICROSOFT. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jan 24 21:02:04 2004 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002b01c3e2af$31344850$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <1074964191.10500.8.camel@ernest> <002b01c3e2af$31344850$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <1074999723.11561.13.camel@ernest> On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 11:20, Curt vendel wrote: > Is Pheonix really first? What about Compaq??? Did they produce the first > PC clones? What BIOS did they use, is it what Pheonix became? > > I had always thought Lazer was the first Apple Clone??? We used to have > more of those then real Apple ]['s in college back in 84-88. According to Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer:" "A software company called Phoenix, which had been a division of the ill-fated Technical Design Labs, was the first to develop a legal MS-DOS BIOS that did not infringe on IBM's copyrights. They did this by a process called reverse engineering." However, he doesn't give a date for when it was done. He also mentions that "several early clone manufacturers, including Columbia Computer Company, were successfully sued by IBM for copying their BIOS." I can't get a solid fix on when V-tech copied Apple's ROMS, either. Both the Laser 3000 and the Compaq Portable were introduced in late 1982. I guess that probably neither followed the proceedure of the other, in terms of avoiding lawsuits. They both happened so close together, in terms of dating that it's hard to know. From john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 24 16:49:46 2004 From: john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Damn battery rot Message-ID: Hi, I was sorting through my stack of IBM XTs & ATs when I saw what I thought was condensation on the case of an AT. Strange I thought I hope that's not rain water (being indoors!) I opened up the case and was dismayed to fine the remains of a back-up battery and a large puddle of horrid looking gunk eating a hole through the steel case. Turned out the previous owner had put a cheap back-up alkaline battery in place of an expensive lithium battery, although the sealed plastic box they came in made no mention of possible leakage. Anyway I cleaned it all out and made a mental note to check my BBC Master's didn't have any batteries left in them either. Just a word to the wise, I'm sure most of you are thinking 'been there, done that'! Regards, John From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Sat Jan 24 20:43:13 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: IEM 4430 Rev C HP-IB Tape Drive Message-ID: <200401250243.i0P2hD84016438@king.cs.drexel.edu> Hi, I came across the IEM 4430 4mm tape drive. This contains an HP DAT 1Gbyte SCSI tape drive and a conversion board that includes the external HP-IB connector, the internal SCSI connector for the tape drive and a connector for the operator panel. The main PCB has 8 dip switches accessible from the back of the machine and a couple of jumpers all over the place. I figured out that three of the DIP switches are for HP-IB addressing, but I wonder whether anybody has any info on that tape drive. Specifically I wonder whether some switch combination can make the 4430 pretend to be some HP drive, so that it can be recognized by software expecting a QIC-style tape drive. Thanks **vp From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 25 04:01:15 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha In-Reply-To: <541A5FA4-4EEA-11D8-AC24-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <541A5FA4-4EEA-11D8-AC24-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040125110115.4ec0b82e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:55:34 -0600 Doc Shipley wrote: > I want one. I can use a PCI, ISA, EISA, MCA (PS/2 or RS/6k), NuBus > > or QBus adapter. The main requirement is that hardware + software be > able to low-level format disks to RX02. There are RX02 clones out there with standard Shugart interface. Some (all?) are able to low level format disks. I have one of those QBus cards and wrote a NetBSD driver for it. As I had no 8" drive I connected a 5.25" drive with a self made adapter cable. All I needed for low level formating was at the VAX boot prompt: Single density d/p/w 20001E78 9 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 Double density d/p/w 20001E78 109 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 25 07:54:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha In-Reply-To: <541A5FA4-4EEA-11D8-AC24-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Doc, I have a PDF copy of the YD-180 drive if you need it. FWIW in the General Information section of the manual they state that it's compatible with the IBM 3740 drive so it should certainly handle that format. Joe At 09:55 PM 1/24/04 -0600, you wrote: > I want one. I can use a PCI, ISA, EISA, MCA (PS/2 or RS/6k), NuBus >or QBus adapter. The main requirement is that hardware + software be >able to low-level format disks to RX02. > > I have a YE Data YD-180 drive from an AS/400 that looks brand new. >According to a couple of comp.os.cpm posts, it's a standard interface >DSDD 1.2MB drive with DC24V/DC5V input. So far so good, and I have a >couple of older ISA floppy controllers that should talk to it (right?), >but I need a controller cable and power pinout for it. For that >matter, between the DE9 power connector on the IBM sled and the power >input on the drive itself, there's a small PDB that looks like it might >be a transformer or step-down. Anybody know what voltage the AS/400 >feeds it? Anybody happen to have an 8" enclosure and PSU they don't >want? > > And, most importantly, that drive *will* format a disk as IBM 3740 >format, right? > > I have 3 computers with RX02 drives, about 300 bulk-erased floppies, >and no way to make the floppies useful in those drives*, and that's >starting to p_ss me off. > >* a couple of places I can trade degaussed disks for formatted at >varying ratios, and that's probably the cheapest way to go, but that's >hardly the point, right? > > > Doc > > From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Jan 25 08:24:14 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha References: <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000901c3e34e$e8e74250$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 2:54 PM Subject: Re: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha > I have a PDF copy of the YD-180 drive if you need it. FWIW in the > General Information section of the manual they state that it's compatible > with the IBM 3740 drive so it should certainly handle that format. > I would appreciate a copy of the PDF file Thanks Nico From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 25 09:05:45 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2004, at 7:54 AM, Joe R. wrote: > Hi Doc, > > I have a PDF copy of the YD-180 drive if you need it. FWIW in the > General Information section of the manual they state that it's > compatible > with the IBM 3740 drive so it should certainly handle that format. The PDF would help a lot, Joe. This email address, please, and thanks! Doc From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 25 09:28:16 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: more vintage PC junk available free (some good!) Message-ID: <003c01c3e357$dadc0ca0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Some of this is total junk, some is "good stuff". Here's the list: Narrow Carriage Dot Matrix printers (all believed working, good shape) Star NX-2430 Multifont TI Omni 800 855 w/font cartridge Star NX-1001 Multifont Epson LX-850 Honeywell Bull Miniature inkjet - about 2 inches tall, 8 inches wide, 5 inches deep. Centronics IF, Cute! Viva Modem 24 (little tower, no PS) Dell Monitor, 14", model Vi1439U Packard Bell Monitor, model PB8538SVGA Complete Epson Equity I+ system, monitor, keyboard, system unit. All epson brand original set. Haven't opened it up but I suspect it's an 8080 or such, 360K floppy. Cute stylish setup. Misc PC cards: 16 bit ISA multi I/O card (2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 joystick, floppy, and ide) 16 bit ISA linksys etherlan16 network card 16 bit ISA VGA (JAX TVGA8900) 8 bit ISA Sound Magic (several creative labs chips) Last but not least... can't believe I'm going to let this one go, but it needs a better home. I have a Corona Data Systems PPC400-12. Probably one of the first portable PC's. Complete setup with keyboard inside the cover, a manual or two. Can someone make a trade offer for this one? I'd like to get something for it. Other than the PPC, all the above is available for cost of shipping rounded up to the nearest dollar. For the PPC, make offer - mainly I just want it to go to a good home. Anything there's no takers for within a day or two goes to the dumpster (except the PPC I'd hold on to). Regards, Jay West From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Jan 25 10:20:11 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha References: <541A5FA4-4EEA-11D8-AC24-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <4013ECBB.EABAD10C@compsys.to> >Doc Shipley wrote: > I want one. I can use a PCI, ISA, EISA, MCA (PS/2 or RS/6k), NuBus > or QBus adapter. The main requirement is that hardware + software be > able to low-level format disks to RX02. Jerome Fine replies: To start with, first let me say that I understand too little about hardware issues to be of much help. As for the 8" RX02 floppy format, remember that only the data is Double Density, the header is still Single Density. Also, as far as I know, ONLY DEC systems used and could handle the SSDD (Single Sided Double Density) RX02 format. I am not aware of any other computers and operating systems that used the RX02, except if you consider the 3rd party manufactures of DEC compatible hardware. In that regard, DSD (Data Systems Design) was one of the companies which sold a number of RX02 compatible systems, including the DSD 880/30 which had both an 8" hard drive that emulated 3 * RL02 (but in this case non-removable) drives and a single RX02 drive as opposed the the usual dual RX02 drives from DEC. I still have a couple of DSD 880/30 systems that might still work. On occasion when I need to read an 8" floppy, I use them. One aspect of the DSD 880/30 is that the hardware is also RX03 compatible, although DEC never actually sold an RX03 floppy drive. BUT, if there were some 8" drives, if my failing memory serves me correctly, which could be attached to an M8029 DEC Qbus board (the company that made plotters) that would allow both sides of the 8" floppy to be read. The definition of an RX03 was DSDD (Double Sided Double Density), as far as I know. In any case, the DSD 880/30 has the hardware to use both sides of an 8" floppy, although like the DEC M8029 controller, the controller for the DSD 880/30 is also limited to just 18 bit addresses for transfers to/from the DMA Silo or a range of 256 KBytes of lower memory. Formatting an RX02 could be done in one step using the DSD 880/30 OFF-LINE to format the floppy as SSDD. In addition, if an 8" floppy was already formatted as SSSD, then RT-11 was able to send a command to the header to make that 8" floppy able to accept SSDD data. Thus the RT-11 command: FORMAT DY0: did not actually do a complete LLF format, it was only able to change an 8" floppy with an already existing SSSD LLF to a SSDD LLF, i.e. change the header flag from Single to Double Density. The DEC RX02 drive was unable to do any LLF at all. It was able to accept the command under RT-11: FORMAT DY0: I did manage, by the way, to add a DPDT switch to the floppy drive in the DSD 880/30 which reversed the sensors used to detect a Single Sided floppy as opposed to a Double Sided Floppy. That allowed me to use ALL SSDD RX02 floppy media as DSDD floppy media without having to punch the extra holes. In my experience, the ONLY floppy media I ever found a problem with were 8" floppies from DEC distributions of software. Some one had used software distribution floppies from DEC and I thought it would be worth while to try them. About 20% did not work as DSDD. Not all blocks were bad, but a few in some cases. > And, most importantly, that drive *will* format a disk as IBM 3740 > format, right? As far as I know, the IBM 3740 format was SSSD or equivalent to the DEC RX01, or more to the point the other way around. > I have 3 computers with RX02 drives, about 300 bulk-erased floppies, > and no way to make the floppies useful in those drives*, and that's > starting to p_ss me off. You need either a DSD 440 or a DSD 880 or any of the other 8" compatible 3rd party systems. The DEC RX01 / RX02 hardware could NOT do an LLF. > * a couple of places I can trade degaussed disks for formatted at > varying ratios, and that's probably the cheapest way to go, but that's > hardly the point, right? YES!! But remember that a DSD 440 and a DSD 880 is rather heavy. If an LLF is a one time requirement, then it would be less expensive to ship a few floppies around. If you can find someone near by with a DSD system, that would be best. By the way, V4.00 of RT-11 did have incorrect code to handle the Double Density option for an RX03, but in V5.00, that code was removed. I did manage to modify DY.MAC for V5.03 of RT-11 to use a DSDD RX03 floppy PLUS use a bounce buffer in low memory so that all 4 MBytes of memory under V5.00 of RT-11 could be used by DYX.SYS for the user buffer. I have mentioned this last part many times, but by now too few people have a DSD 880/30 system around, let alone use it with V5.00 of RT-11 and later. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun Jan 25 11:59:45 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Looking for a truly free hit counter References: <01d601c3e1d6$4ccc6360$26406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <004101c3e36d$16363ea0$0300a8c0@look.ca> I've been using these guys for over seven years. All you have to do is put a single line on your page with a link to their site. All I put was "For the best Counters go here " and it's worked for seven plus years. Here is the url : http://www.digits.com/ best part is no muss and no fuss with CGI etc. I only have it on my main page but you can set up ones for subsequent pages also. I average 8 hits a day and still get continuous offers of computers from all over the world. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: OT: Looking for a truly free hit counter > Does anyone know where to get code for a truly free hit counter for your > website? All the ones I have found want to put ads on your page in return > for the code. Thanks > > From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 25 13:19:47 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001b01c3e378$344b0be0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > $ set host rstse > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > $ > > On the RSTS/E system console, I get the following: > > Event type 34.1, Object spawn failure > Occurred 10-Jan-17 17:40:49.5 on node 60.663 (RSTSE) > Reason: Unknown Object identification > Source node = 1.652 > Source process = 0 0 0 HEALYZH > Destination Process = 42 OK, so the Decnet-Plus box gets as far as prodding the RSTS box and asking to use object 42. Something at the back of my mind is telling me that the protocol (and object) used for remote terminal connections changed somewhere along the line. I know nothing about RSTS/E so I don't know what object it uses for terminal connections. Try to set host from the RSTS/E system to the DECnet-Plus system and see what the ensuing OPCOM message whines about. If it's not 42, then you have your answer. You then get to release a few white mice on a blue-green planet to find the question (I'm not prepared to wait a few million years, but I bet the question will be "How do I persuade DECnet-Plus to use the old protocol"). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From aek at spies.com Sun Jan 25 13:25:55 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: ISO Tek 4052A service manual Message-ID: <200401251925.i0PJPtcZ025303@spies.com> Does anyone one that I could borrow? FWIW, I've dumped the firmware and microcode roms this morning www.spies.com/aek/Tek4052A_fw.zip I suspect a power supply problem, but it is quite different from the 4051 that I do have docs for (and have on line on bitsavers) The main boards are probably the same as the 4054. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 25 14:02:39 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040125115924.D43260@newshell.lmi.net> > > As I think we all know, it's not the innovators that get the recognition per > > se, but the people that make the most noise. I got my first Osborne 1 last > > week and there's nothing remarkable about it; hells, it looks like a > > repackaged TRS80 Model III. Like you said in an email, it wasn't the first > > portable by a long chalk but which one does everyone remember? > Marketing is everything... > Case in point: MICROSOFT. What was Henry Ford's role in the development of the automobile? Most of the general public think that he INVENTED it. (and that Bill Gates invented operating systems??) The 5100 was to "portable computers" as the Montgolfiers (sp?) were to flying. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ohh at drizzle.com Sun Jan 25 14:38:57 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? Message-ID: I'm baaaaack!... Apologies if this has been posted here already... I found this little horror story on alt.sys.pdp8, and it made me cringe. If anyone has a good estimate for this guy, it's probably best to reply to that newsgroup. I'm just going to go put those tank-traps and reinforced concrete into the front yard now... :/ -O.- -- forwarded message -- From: David M. Razler Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: CRISIS - need estimates on recent Straight-8 sales/parts/repairs for insurance claim You're not going to believe this one Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:12:47 GMT Fortunately no one was hurt. But my friends Jeff and Candice Nisler were home from their honeymoon for about a week when their home was struck by a flying car - which took out every floor joist and sent cinder blocks crashing through his Straight-8 destroying a glass front panel, powdering the covers and modules, shooting the power supply into a steel post (which it wrapped itself around (pix at nisler.org/crash)) [The PDP-8 - or what's left of it - is in the photos on http://nisler.org/crash/down/ .] Jeff doesn't want to give up on Kermit - his first computer, but wants to force the auto owner's insurance company to repair/ restore the box. He is also looking to establish value based on recent purchases of Straight-8s, especially tabletop machines with glass panel and mod covers. Please post to me, he's a bit busy at the moment restoring the rest of his life. -- end of forwarded message -- From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Jan 25 14:44:23 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040125122424.026071f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Upon the date 12:52 PM 1/23/04 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival said something like: >On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Christian Fandt wrote: > > > The OS's that are said in that website to be used in the GRiDLite are > > PenPoint, Penwindows, PenRight. What are all these?? > >PenPoint was Go Corporation's attempt at a pen-based OS (i.e. for tablet >computers). PenWindows was Microsoft's obligatory attempt to hijack the >market from Go (Read Jerry Kaplan's _Startup_ for a great story). I've >never heard of PenRight. Thanks for the info Sellam. I can't tell without tearing into the screen assembly if this machine has a touch type screen for pen use in order to utilize the subject OS's. Curious. For the other listeners, recall we're talking about a Grid Systems GRiDLite Plus model 1040. Are these the only OS's this thing works with? I'm a little surprised somebody hasn't commented on this machine as I thought there was some interest in those oddball Grid machines. I have heard of one or two collectors who specialize in Grid Systems gear but don't recall who. I still want to learn more about this model and especially repair it except I'm stymied with the dearth of any info accessible through web searches. Info still wanted on the Panasonic CF-150B Business Partner. I did learn it was basically the same as one of those R/S Tandy LCD laptop models (the 1100 or something?). Anyway, good little machine to run my EPROM programmers or control other simple hardware apps around here if I can get the danged FDD to work :-/ > > find funds: three brand new Tandy 100's plus carrying cases, two of the > > little PC2's with printers and a PC1 with printer, all with bunches of s/w > > & accessories went for only $200 for the lot. I scrounged up about $150 for > > all the rest of the stuff described here. > >$200 is a tad steep for that lot. $150 would be more acceptable. Well, I think 200 may indeed be closer. To make things shorter I did not list all the details and stuff included with the whole Tandy pile. Recall I indicated these were mostly NOS, and specifically one Model 100 was still sealed in original packaging, another in a really convenient fitted hardcase with a bunch of accessories and manuals (all NOS again), a third in a nice leatherette satchel with accessories. Then there's the two or maybe three PC2's and two PC1's, all in original packaging with printer/AC power unit cradles plus a lot of s/w titles in shrinkwrap plus lots more . I discovered that a local ham bought the pile for the Model 100's in order for him and a couple friends to use them with packet and maybe RTTY. < My discussion of a new LJ III and my need of a new toner cartridge was here.> >Don't bother...I've got a bunch of these surplus. Let me know if you want >one or more and I'll send them out to you (along with the SCSI cables >you wanted). Okay Sellam, I'll need to take a couple of the 95A's. A while before I got this message offering them I bid on a new-packaged toner on e*ay for a bid of $9.75 plus $12 s&h, which I though was reasonable (well, compared to $95). It was from out East in Jersey, sort of close to me. But I got sniped by just three seconds at the end and lost it by $0.50. Oh well, I'd much rather deal with you plus getting parts from you will be "keeping it within the family" :-) Contact me privately with what you have come up with and costs. (Thanks!) > > Also, anybody have a JetDirect Ethernet card for the LaserJet III they > > could part with? Cannot yet determine the exact part # at this time via > > online searches. No mention in manual as this option may not have been > > developed at time of publication (1990). They became available later. > >I have a Token Ring JetDirect adapter for this if you want to connect it >to your Token Ring network :) Token Ring? Nah, I think the CAT5, 10BaseT (Thinnet) and possibly ARCNET networks I'm fiddling with in this house is enough to mess with for now ;) DECNET *may* possibly come after I get my uVAX and VAX 11/730 running and lashed up to the rest of the house plus obtain an OpenVMS hobbyist license. Check http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3454394145 which describes exactly what I am looking for. I'm very likely gonna try for this as it is from up in Williamsville, just north of Buffalo, which is "close" to me (~90 miles). Shipping may not add to much to cost as he says it is 3 lbs and will go by USPS. One bid now at $9.99, but what is his upper end?? Do you folks think $15-$16 plus postage should get it? (yeah, talk about unanswerable questions :-/ but opinions welcome). Otherwise, everybody please note that my quest continues for one of these. > > Some of that heap of On topic and Off topic NOS PeeCee boards and misc > > stuff include a Copy II PC board including manual and disk, a dozen or so > >Nice! Thanks, and there's a few other interesting goodies in that heap that I did not mention as they don't come to mind presently (I tucked most of it away in my storage unit and need to go through it. But the daytime temp. has averaged around 0 to 15 degrees F in the past several weeks so I'm not too inclined to go over there :-) BTW, regarding other New Finds, I forgot to mention that over a year ago I was given a Tandy Model 16 with some s/w, Tandy Xenix for a Model 6000 on 8" floppies, versions from around 1.x plus updates through ver. 3.2.0 (this works on the 16??) plus a Tandy DT-1 dumb terminal of which its case looks much like a Tandy Model III. The 16 was used in the local Alltel central office to record tolls on a certain group of trunks -as I recall the info from the phone company switch technician who rescued this stuff for me. I think the software for that job is included in the pile. Anybody have a keyboard and cable for the 16 available? The original got lost sometime over the years it was sitting around the phone company storeroom. Regards, Chris NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 25 15:03:24 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD Message-ID: <200401251603.24119.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Is there any problem with data stored in a garage when the temperature drops to -20? I just found out where my moved a bunch of my machines (Cromemco, nabu, pets, Tandy's). Any precautions to take when moving them back indoors? Mike -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 25 10:20:26 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:48 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040125211917.YHQM108.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > I'm baaaaack!... > > Apologies if this has been posted here already... I found this > little horror story on alt.sys.pdp8, and it made me cringe. If > honeymoon for about a week when their home was struck by a flying > car - which took out every floor joist and sent cinder blocks > crashing through his Straight-8 destroying a glass front panel, Yow. That's unreal... in our town we had exact same thing happen twice in 2002 and 2003... One girl is still learning to drive and hit the gas instead of brake, launching her jeep into hard U turn hit the rental house that she lives in! Other one is sadder. The two couples (older), one of couple owns the resteauent place and both couples were drunk and refused taxi, drove off , missed the sweeping curves and went through several front yards and smashed into house, instantly killed a senior sitting on their lawn chair inside lower split level house and one person dead in the car also. That one about the flying car, I bet driver had good headstart to get that assumed 100mph to fly that high and far? Smashed joists in the house and launched the PDP-8 PSU across and hit lolly post. Amazing. Was these guys drunk or was racing? I'm curious how this streets and roads was laid out this way? It takes at least 3/4 to 1 mile for car to get that speed. Fire dept condemned the house so quickly, I'm curious what about recovering stuff after shoring up first from that house or destroyed along with house when house being razed? Cheers, Wizard From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jan 25 15:22:04 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD References: <200401251603.24119.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <017201c3e389$47fc07f0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: Effect of COLD > > Is there any problem with data stored in a garage when the temperature drops > to -20? I just found out where my moved a bunch of my machines (Cromemco, > nabu, pets, Tandy's). > > Any precautions to take when moving them back indoors? > > Mike > > -- > Ottawa, Canada > > Collector of vintage computers > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 > > I would imagine anything with a lubricant (hard drives, floppies) would freeze so that you would need to make sure the machine had warmed up quite a bit before you tried to run it. Any plastic parts will be VERY brittle at those temperatures so snapping them off when trying to move them would be a problem. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 25 15:32:37 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD In-Reply-To: <200401251603.24119.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: The largest problem will be condensation. If moisture accumulates, it fill mix with any contaminants to produce a nice conductive film which can destroy (short out) all of the electronics on power up. The second (and much easier to deal with) is mechanical tolerance issues. Things contract when they get cold and expand when warming up (we all know this). If the devices are turned on (especially older items) the effects can be significant enough that the mechanics will be out of tolerance and bind and possible bend or break. This is easily cured by NOT turning them on until they have completely reached room temperature. As I said, the moisture problem is much more severe. If the items are packed in SEALED packaged with a decent amount of Sodium Silicate (or other drying agent) this should not be much of a problem. But (unfortunatley) we usually dont pay this much attention when packing "average" gear for storage. One technique I have used successfully is to (at least partially) disassemble the device [covers off at a minimum] while it is still extremely cold. After my finger thaw out, I will then bring it in to an enclosed area that has almost no humidity (hot air heating, dehumidifier, chemical water absorbers) and let it warm up in there. This will usually eliminate the formation of and condensate. Hope this helps. David. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:03 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Effect of COLD Is there any problem with data stored in a garage when the temperature drops to -20? I just found out where my moved a bunch of my machines (Cromemco, nabu, pets, Tandy's). Any precautions to take when moving them back indoors? Mike -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Sun Jan 25 12:31:23 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <10401232339.ZM14212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> <10401232339.ZM14212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1075055483.2046.33.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-01-23 at 18:39, Pete Turnbull wrote: > All the IIIs I've seen had JetDirect cards (they all came from > netwroked environments). They only work as single-protocol in a III, > but just about any JetDirect MIO card should work, as far as I > remember. Look for J2250A, J2550B, J2552A or J2552B (that's what are > in my 4s, 5s, and 1600). For the III (and the II, IID, and IIID) he needs the C2071x series. He'd need a IISi for the J255xx ones to work. A Jetdirect EX would probably work out better for you. They are external, and plug into the parallel port of the printer. The EX Plus 3's that are up on EPay right now will run up to three printers... So you can have your laserjet, inkjet, and dot matrix all on your network at the same time... Hmmm... Maybe I should get one, too... TTFN Andrew From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Sun Jan 25 12:36:56 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <1075055483.2046.33.camel@localhost> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> <10401232339.ZM14212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1075055483.2046.33.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1075055816.2046.36.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 13:31, Andrew Prince wrote: > On Fri, 2004-01-23 at 18:39, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > All the IIIs I've seen had JetDirect cards (they all came from > > netwroked environments). They only work as single-protocol in a III, > > but just about any JetDirect MIO card should work, as far as I > > remember. Look for J2250A, J2550B, J2552A or J2552B (that's what are > > in my 4s, 5s, and 1600). > > For the III (and the II, IID, and IIID) he needs the C2071x series. He'd > need a IISi for the J255xx ones to work. > > A Jetdirect EX would probably work out better for you. They are > external, and plug into the parallel port of the printer. The EX Plus > 3's that are up on EPay right now will run up to three printers... So > you can have your laserjet, inkjet, and dot matrix all on your network > at the same time... Hmmm... Maybe I should get one, too... > Make sure you get one with an AC adapter... The first two EX 3's I looked at didn't seem to have have AC adapters... TTFN Andrew From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 25 16:02:21 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <1075055816.2046.36.camel@localhost> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040115125135.024f2770@pop3.norton.antivirus> <10401232339.ZM14212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1075055483.2046.33.camel@localhost> <1075055816.2046.36.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <262B1E42-4F82-11D8-9C58-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 25, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Andrew Prince wrote: > On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 13:31, Andrew Prince wrote: >> On Fri, 2004-01-23 at 18:39, Pete Turnbull wrote: >>> All the IIIs I've seen had JetDirect cards (they all came from >>> netwroked environments). They only work as single-protocol in a III, >>> but just about any JetDirect MIO card should work, as far as I >>> remember. Look for J2250A, J2550B, J2552A or J2552B (that's what are >>> in my 4s, 5s, and 1600). >> >> For the III (and the II, IID, and IIID) he needs the C2071x series. >> He'd >> need a IISi for the J255xx ones to work. >> >> A Jetdirect EX would probably work out better for you. They are >> external, and plug into the parallel port of the printer. The EX Plus >> 3's that are up on EPay right now will run up to three printers... So >> you can have your laserjet, inkjet, and dot matrix all on your network >> at the same time... Hmmm... Maybe I should get one, too... >> > > Make sure you get one with an AC adapter... The first two EX 3's I > looked at didn't seem to have have AC adapters... Funny coincidence, there. I just hacked a Sprint CAD-1000 AC adapter onto a JetDirect Ex+ last night. The receptacle of the JD is odd, so I had to pull the board and solder the adapter direct. Other than that, it's the right voltage, and a little over-amped (1A vs the JD's rated 800mA). HP has the real deal PSU in stock for $8 US, but I found this Sprint thingy at the thrift store for a buck and I didn't want to wait. I've been having to move files off my Mac to the Linux box to print because I'm too lazy to set the 4039 as a Samba share. A word about the firmware - the older JetDirect EX models don't do DHCP, and if it's set to a subnet that doesn't match yours, you'll have to set a machine up on the JD's subnet to update and configure it. The firmware is upgradeable, and HP has all the necessary online. If the firmware is very old ( > TTFN > Andrew From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Jan 25 16:09:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD In-Reply-To: <200401251603.24119.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200401251603.24119.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <40143E7C.8050000@atarimuseum.com> This sort of applies to anything... give at least 24 hours to allow any device to warm up to room temperature before doing anything. After a move of a device, open it up and check all the connections, reseat the cards and do a "rattle" test and make sure a screw or other metal object has not found its way onto the electronics, into the p/s etc.... otherwise things could get ugly. Curt Mike wrote: >Is there any problem with data stored in a garage when the temperature drops >to -20? I just found out where my moved a bunch of my machines (Cromemco, >nabu, pets, Tandy's). > >Any precautions to take when moving them back indoors? > >Mike > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jan 25 16:07:16 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Not quite tubes... but still.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c3e38f$97f5c240$4d4d2c0a@atx> Not just an Analogue computer ... but with the interface for hybrid computing. Now that _is_ special. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David V. Corbin > Sent: 24 January 2004 19:21 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Not quite tubes... but still.... > > > Interesting item on e-Bay > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2782674461 > > Old Analog computer..Played with one very similar at my dad's shop decades > ago... > > From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 16:26:21 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Unless he had an "official" independent appraisal by a recognized insurance appraiser who described the PDP-8 piece in detail and establish a value for it by physically looking/photographing/videotaping the equipment, and had it reviewed and approved by an his insurance agent, and applied for the rider and payed the extra premium for the rider, he has a snowballs chance in hell in collecting anything. steve --- "O. Sharp" wrote: > > I'm baaaaack!... > > Apologies if this has been posted here already... I > found this little > horror story on alt.sys.pdp8, and it made me cringe. > If anyone has a > good estimate for this guy, it's probably best to > reply to that > newsgroup. > > I'm just going to go put those tank-traps and > reinforced concrete into > the front yard now... :/ > > -O.- > > -- forwarded message -- > From: David M. Razler > > Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8 > Subject: CRISIS - need estimates on recent > Straight-8 > sales/parts/repairs for insurance claim > You're not going to believe this one > Message-ID: > > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:12:47 GMT > > Fortunately no one was hurt. > But my friends Jeff and Candice Nisler were home > from their honeymoon > for about a week when their home was struck by a > flying car - which > took out every floor joist and sent cinder blocks > crashing through his > Straight-8 destroying a glass front panel, powdering > the covers and > modules, shooting the power supply into a steel post > (which it wrapped > itself around (pix at nisler.org/crash)) > > [The PDP-8 - or what's left of it - is in the > photos on > http://nisler.org/crash/down/ .] > > Jeff doesn't want to give up on Kermit - his first > computer, but wants > to force the auto owner's insurance company to > repair/ restore the > box. > > He is also looking to establish value based on > recent purchases of > Straight-8s, especially tabletop machines with glass > panel and mod > covers. > > Please post to me, he's a bit busy at the moment > restoring the rest of > his life. > > give me an > assessment on a Raytheon CRT of the type used in the > PDP-1 - it is > being donated to THCM to help in the PDP-1 rehab > project, and I'd like > to take the full legal deduction.> > > > -- end of forwarded message -- > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 25 16:29:31 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <001b01c3e378$344b0be0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <001b01c3e378$344b0be0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: >it uses for terminal connections. Try to set host >from the RSTS/E system to the DECnet-Plus system and >see what the ensuing OPCOM message whines about. If it's >not 42, then you have your answer. You then get to >release a few white mice on a blue-green planet to >find the question (I'm not prepared to wait a few >million years, but I bet the question will be >"How do I persuade DECnet-Plus to use the old >protocol"). I wish I'd thought of that, oddly enough, I don't get any messages at all on the VMS server! I'm thinking that my problems might largely be with the way DECnet is configured on the RSTS/E side of things. I've got the System Installation manual, but it's not been of much help. At least the System Managers Manual helped me get LAT working. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rmu_scada at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 14:15:37 2004 From: rmu_scada at yahoo.com (Joe Abbott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Cromemco SCC Eproms/images needed Message-ID: <20040125201537.23306.qmail@web41305.mail.yahoo.com> I'm still looking for the monitor/3k basic interpreter eproms for my Cromemco SCC s100 card. Actually, all I need is the firmware dumps. I'll burn my own. Also, in an earlier post I stated they were part # MCB-416. I should have said MCB-216. According to the manual they are individually numbered MCB-216-0 and MCB-216-1. Thanks, Joe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 25 17:13:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040125122424.026071f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Christian Fandt wrote: > > > The OS's that are said in that website to be used in the GRiDLite are > > > PenPoint, Penwindows, PenRight. What are all these?? > > > >PenPoint was Go Corporation's attempt at a pen-based OS (i.e. for tablet > >computers). PenWindows was Microsoft's obligatory attempt to hijack the > >market from Go (Read Jerry Kaplan's _Startup_ for a great story). I've > >never heard of PenRight. > > Thanks for the info Sellam. I can't tell without tearing into the screen > assembly if this machine has a touch type screen for pen use in order to > utilize the subject OS's. Curious. It certainly does. All the GRiD tablets were pen-based. > For the other listeners, recall we're talking about a Grid Systems GRiDLite > Plus model 1040. Are these the only OS's this thing works with? I'm a They can run DOS (not terribly useful unless you also have an external keyboard) and Windows with Pen extensions (i.e. PenWindows). > little surprised somebody hasn't commented on this machine as I thought > there was some interest in those oddball Grid machines. I have heard of one > or two collectors who specialize in Grid Systems gear but don't recall who. The guy (as far as I know) to talk to about GRiD computers is Rob Borsari, who brought close to 15 GRiD's (including a nice prototype) to VCF 6.0. As luck would have it, John Ellenby, there to participate in the Alto panel, was also the founder of GRiD :) > I still want to learn more about this model and especially repair it except > I'm stymied with the dearth of any info accessible through web searches. I'll put you in touch with Rob. He can help you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 25 17:27:38 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effects of MOVING...... In-Reply-To: <40143E7C.8050000@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: >> After a move of a device, open it up and check all the connections, >> reseat the cards and do a "rattle" test and make sure a screw or other >> metal object has not found its way onto the electronics, into the p/s >> etc.... otherwise things could get ugly. About 10 years ago, my son (from my first marraige) came to visit for christmas. My present to him was a computer. I knew he liked to take things apart, so rather than giving him a completed machine, I bought all of the cards, drives, case, power supply, and gift wrapped each piece (after assemblying testing and breaking down the unit). On Christmas morning he was so excited (12 year old at the time) and we quickly built the machine. Had a great time. After a week it was time for him to go back to mom in Florida. We put the CPU tower in the original box (from the case), the monitor back in its original box and checked them as luggage. That night I get a call from him that the computer "rattles" and does not work. I have him open it op and tell me what he sees. "The black box thing (disk drive) is laying loose in the bottom of the case, all of the cards are bend out of their connectors...". In our haste to boot the machine on Christmas morning, I had totally forgotten to screw the hard drive into the case!!!! The story has a happy ending. He was able to put the parts back together (talk about an interesting "field support telehpone call!), and nothing was really damaged. Ove the past ten years he has built many machines out of spare parts for family and friends, and is a reasonable hardware guy for these types of machines. Unfortunately, he never developed an interest in programming....... From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jan 25 17:31:13 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD References: <200401251603.24119.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <40143E7C.8050000@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <01cd01c3e39b$5276a890$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Effect of COLD > This sort of applies to anything... give at least 24 hours to allow > any device to warm up to room temperature before doing anything. > > After a move of a device, open it up and check all the connections, > reseat the cards and do a "rattle" test and make sure a screw or other > metal object has not found its way onto the electronics, into the p/s > etc.... otherwise things could get ugly. > > > Curt > > > I always check both the power leads to ground with a meter before I dare plug in anything that I never used before (used dirty equipment). Its probably because I used to work with 480VAC equipment and anything shorting to ground would ruin your day. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 25 17:38:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD In-Reply-To: <01cd01c3e39b$5276a890$0500fea9@game> from "Teo Zenios" at Jan 25, 4 06:31:13 pm Message-ID: > I always check both the power leads to ground with a meter before I dare > plug in anything that I never used before (used dirty equipment). Its For anything I've not used for some time (or at all), I will 0) Pull the case and check for loose parts that are waiting to cause shorts, etc 1) Do an insulation test between both mains wires and the case, using a 1000V tester 2) Do an earth continuity test, passing at least 10A through the earth wire 3) Check known failure points that can cause real damage (shorted pass transistors in linear PSUs (or, indeed, some switch-mode regulators, like the ones in some HP desktop calculators) 4) And _still_ run the PSU into a dummy load first... It seems to be sensible to spend some time checking the above to prevent much larger problems later. Either damage to me (if the casing becomes live), or more importantly to a classic computer -tony From bill at timeguy.com Sun Jan 25 17:47:37 2004 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: PDP Manual on eBay Message-ID: <20040125174634.B61513-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> FYI - looks like a nice book. Tempted to bid on it myself, but I don't have a PDP. Thought someone else might be interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3581863201&category=378 From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jan 25 17:48:42 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effects of MOVING...... References: Message-ID: <021301c3e39d$c3894630$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: RE: Effects of MOVING...... > The story has a happy ending. He was able to put the parts back together > (talk about an interesting "field support telehpone call!), and nothing was > really damaged. Ove the past ten years he has built many machines out of > spare parts for family and friends, and is a reasonable hardware guy for > these types of machines. > > Unfortunately, he never developed an interest in programming....... > > > > > Times have changed quite a bit. When I got my first computer in 1983 (Timex 2068) the only software I had with it was flight simulator and that gets old quick. Since I loved computers, had no internet back then (or lost of cash for buying games) to download demo's or P2P to download every commercial program ever made, I learned to do some programming. So basically there is no need to learn how to program something these days with so much plentiful software around with easy access. P.S. Why is it that Ultima IV cost $50 new back in 1980's and new games cost the same 20 years later while computers are cheaper then dirt? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 25 17:56:54 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: PDP Manual on eBay In-Reply-To: <20040125174634.B61513-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: Actually that (I am pretty sure) is a version that focuses mainly on the PDP-8/a which was microprocessor (rather than discrete component) based. Earlier editions (which had more information on Flip-Chip based designs),are much more useful to those intersted in older PDP-8's (/I /E /L /M /S). -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Richman Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 6:48 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: PDP Manual on eBay FYI - looks like a nice book. Tempted to bid on it myself, but I don't have a PDP. Thought someone else might be interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3581863201&category=378 From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 25 18:03:02 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: more vintage PC junk available free (some good!) In-Reply-To: <003c01c3e357$dadc0ca0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Jay West wrote: > Some of this is total junk, some is "good stuff". Here's the list: > > Narrow Carriage Dot Matrix printers (all believed working, good shape) > Star NX-2430 Multifont > TI Omni 800 855 w/font cartridge > Star NX-1001 Multifont > Epson LX-850 > > Honeywell Bull Miniature inkjet - about 2 inches tall, 8 inches wide, 5 > inches deep. Centronics IF, Cute! > > Viva Modem 24 (little tower, no PS) > > Dell Monitor, 14", model Vi1439U > Packard Bell Monitor, model PB8538SVGA > > Complete Epson Equity I+ system, monitor, keyboard, system unit. All epson > brand original set. Haven't opened it up but I suspect it's an 8080 or such, > 360K floppy. Cute stylish setup. I believe that it is a DOS machine - possibly 286. - don > Misc PC cards: > 16 bit ISA multi I/O card (2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 joystick, floppy, and > ide) > 16 bit ISA linksys etherlan16 network card > 16 bit ISA VGA (JAX TVGA8900) > 8 bit ISA Sound Magic (several creative labs chips) > > Last but not least... can't believe I'm going to let this one go, but it > needs a better home. I have a Corona Data Systems PPC400-12. Probably one of > the first portable PC's. Complete setup with keyboard inside the cover, a > manual or two. Can someone make a trade offer for this one? I'd like to get > something for it. > > Other than the PPC, all the above is available for cost of shipping rounded > up to the nearest dollar. For the PPC, make offer - mainly I just want it to > go to a good home. Anything there's no takers for within a day or two goes > to the dumpster (except the PPC I'd hold on to). > > Regards, > > Jay West > > From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 25 18:26:22 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c3e3a3$0669d780$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I wish I'd thought of that, oddly enough, I don't get > any messages at all on the VMS server! I'm thinking that my > problems might largely be with the way DECnet is configured > on the RSTS/E side of things. I've got the System I've got precisely one RSTS/E manual, it might even be one of the DECnet ones; I'll have a look tomorrow. One quick check might be to SET HOST to your DECnet-Plus node from somewhere else and verify that you get OPCOM messages (as it's possible to disable them). An alternative is to grant yourself NET$TRACEALL and then try: TRACE START/LIVE NSP Now you should at least see some traffic arriving (although figuring out the problem will involve some knowledge of DECnet NSP). Assuming events do display on the console but you see nothing (and or see nothing in TRACE), the next possibility is that the RSTS/E system thinks that the node you want is actually somewhere else. I know nothing about RSTS/E, but if this is a possibility try SET HOST to the full numeric address rather than a name. If you still see no activity, perhaps there is something that sends the RSTS system off to the wrong place (after all, it said that the incoming area 60 connection was from area 1). Maybe RSTS does not implement the area stuff properly (any chance it might be Phase III?) If you can persuade your hub/switch to monitor traffic connected to the RSTS box, see if you can do an ethereal trace and decode the AA-00-04-00 address the RSTS box sends traffic to. If the RSTS box does turn out to be running Phase III DECnet rather than Phas IV, I think all bets are off (although you can in that case probably use poor-man's-routing through a Phase IV box). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 25 18:41:36 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6552E084-4F98-11D8-B61A-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 25, 2004, at 4:26 PM, steve wrote: > Unless he had an "official" independent appraisal by a > recognized insurance appraiser who described the PDP-8 > piece in detail and establish a value for it by > physically looking/photographing/videotaping the > equipment, and had it reviewed and approved by an his > insurance agent, and applied for the rider and payed > the extra premium for the rider, he has a snowballs > chance in hell in collecting anything. Not necessarily true. I got T-boned in an intersection, totalling my car, a few years ago, and the only thing the other driver's insurance didn't fight over was the value of the laptop that got hurled off the back seat. Not only was the thing (a Sharp 8700) not documented, but I had built it from 2 dead units and I think I had $250 or so invested in it. I told the adjuster what it was worth based on the cost to replace it, and that I couldn't find the receipts (true) and they accepted my appraisal without argument. Her insurance gave me more for the laptop (which just needed to be disassembled, the hard drive replaced, and everything reseated - I still have it and it still runs) than they initially offered for the completely wasted car. Doc From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Jan 25 19:16:44 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> If I understand correctly, he's looking to collect from the driver's liability insurance, not his own homeowner's, so the rider doesn't apply here. That still leaves the problem of proving the machine's value. I saw the earlier posting on alt.sys.pdp8, and suggested to David that he contact Sellam, whose professional involvement in appraisal and brokerage might carry some weight with the insurance company. If it came to that, I'd certainly threaten to sue for the damages and not just roll over if they don't want to pay. Have any straight-8s changed hands on Ebay? I know an 8/S went for $3000. I've often claimed that my straight-8 is worth that much to those who are inclinced to think of it as "old junk", but that is based on not much more than the fact that I would personally pay that much for the one I have if I didn't own it already and it were offered to me. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > Unless he had an "official" independent appraisal by a > recognized insurance appraiser who described the PDP-8 > piece in detail and establish a value for it by > physically looking/photographing/videotaping the > equipment, and had it reviewed and approved by an his > insurance agent, and applied for the rider and payed > the extra premium for the rider, he has a snowballs > chance in hell in collecting anything. > > > steve From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 19:35:39 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <6552E084-4F98-11D8-B61A-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040126013539.78931.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc Shipley wrote: > On Jan 25, 2004, at 4:26 PM, steve wrote: > > > Unless he had an "official" independent appraisal > by a > > recognized insurance appraiser who described the > PDP-8 > > piece in detail and establish a value for it by > > physically looking/photographing/videotaping the > > equipment, and had it reviewed and approved by an > his > > insurance agent, and applied for the rider and > payed > > the extra premium for the rider, he has a > snowballs > > chance in hell in collecting anything. > > Not necessarily true. I got T-boned in an > intersection, totalling my > car, a few years ago, and the only thing the other > driver's insurance > didn't fight over was the value of the laptop that > got hurled off the > back seat. Not only was the thing (a Sharp 8700) > not documented, but I > had built it from 2 dead units and I think I had > $250 or so invested in > it. I told the adjuster what it was worth based on > the cost to replace > it, and that I couldn't find the receipts (true) and > they accepted my > appraisal without argument. > Completely different, you talking about a mass produced item that's commonly available and commonly owned. Insurance companies will usually honor these claims without any documentation, like furniture, TV's stoves etc on a house claim. Its totally different with a straight PDP-8 which the insurance company will view as an antique whos value varies greatly depending on condition (like any other antique), which is why they demand proper documentation and an additional policy if the value is in the thousands. Ever watch that antique show on PBS? They always say when estimating antique prices "you should have this insured for x dollars". This stuff is not covered on your normal policy. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 25 19:45:04 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040126013539.78931.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >> This stuff is not covered on your normal policy. (Regarding requiring a specific rider). 1) As W Maddox pointed out, the first level insurance company is the drivers car insurance so the rider issue does not really apply. 2) Even if there is not an explicit rider (always the best choice), there are often umbrella clauses that will cover the cost. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 19:44:49 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <20040126014449.40351.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Maddox wrote: > If I understand correctly, he's looking to collect > from the driver's > liability insurance, not his own homeowner's, so the > rider doesn't > apply here. True, as long as the driver had insurance. That still leaves the problem of > proving the machine's > value. Right, that the basic problem, the condition of the unit before the accident is unknown (as far as the insurance company is concern, whether its the drivers or the home owners insurance company). Photos will help, but not always. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From tosteve at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 19:46:54 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) Message-ID: <20040126014654.65110.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> My first attempt at the so-called killer poke on my Commodore PET 2001-8 resulted in a 30% speed increase! I used "POKE 59458,62" No smoke, either! Steve. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 25 19:56:07 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <000501c3e3a3$0669d780$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <000501c3e3a3$0669d780$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: >One quick check might be to SET HOST to your DECnet-Plus node >from somewhere else and verify that you get OPCOM messages >(as it's possible to disable them). You know, I'm getting tired of fighting things that *had* worked. I just discovered that the VMS box can no longer SET HOST to itself!?!?! This is something that I'm in the habit of doing occasionally, and I'm not sure when it broke. So, until I can figure that one out, further troubleshooting on the RSTS/E side is probably a waste of time. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 25 19:56:14 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040126013539.78931.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126013539.78931.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jan 25, 2004, at 7:35 PM, steve wrote: > > Its totally different with a straight PDP-8 which the > insurance company will view as an antique whos value > varies greatly depending on condition (like any other > antique), which is why they demand proper > documentation and an additional policy if the value is > in the thousands. Ever watch that antique show on PBS? > They always say when estimating antique prices "you > should have this insured for x dollars". > This stuff is not covered on your normal policy. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Which is the precise point of our contention. We're not talking about a homeowners' or renters' policy at all, we're talking about liability coverage. When it's robbery or "acts of God", and the insurance company represents nobody but themselves, they are indeed likely to dispute every item. At least in Texas, US, when there _is_ a policyholder that's this clearly in the wrong, and the possibility of intangible damages (pain & anguish) is very high, the insurance company isn't likely to quibble over paying a few grand for unique equipment. Worst case, the owner of the straight-8 might need to prove, by way of witness affidavits, that it was functional prior to the assault. With several commercially acknowledged sources of "collectable computer" valuation now available, an acceptable dollar value won't be that hard to assign. Doc From john3000 at cox.net Sun Jan 25 20:20:45 2004 From: john3000 at cox.net (John K.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: FW: HP2000/Access - benchmarks In-Reply-To: <001901c3e231$fca91480$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20040123211407.04597b00@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20040125210653.0456f580@pop.east.cox.net> At 2004-01-23 11:24 PM, Jay West wrote: > > Yes, GMU had an HP 2000 ACCESS system with 21MX-E processors, > >Are you sure it was 21MX-E and not 21MX-M? Just curious! Positive. There were two 21MX-E processors in our system. Once or twice we had problems where HP would replace a process with a "loaner" while they checked out a possible hardware problem. On those occasions, they will replace the 21MX-E with a 2100 processor. I don't believe that both processors were replaced, but only one. I can't remember whether the temporary configuration was 21MX-E system processor and 2100 I/O processor, or 2100 I/O processor and 21MX-E processor. > I was the system manager for the GMU HP 2000 from its delivery in August, > > 1978 until I left GMU in January, 1984 > >If you are ever in St. Louis, stop by and you can reminisce and boot Access >up :) I'd love to! > > If I remember correctly, a > > disc diagnostic/utility program (which I think was called SLUTH) was used > > to configure the drive. > >I have seen mention of a program called SLUTH for disc drives, but my >impression was that it was a 3rd party program, not HP. HP always wanted you >to use their diagnostics to format the drive (plus, Access can format a pack >all by itself). In thinking about this a bit, I seem to remember us having an odd problem with the 7920 on the HP 2000, and so the HP CE came in on a Saturday (we didn't run production on our HP 3000 at the time), and he "borrowed" the 7920 from the HP 3000 and put it on the HP 2000 to see if it would exhibit the same problem. As Ed Sharpe mentioned, SLUTH was for the HP 3000, and what I probably remember was the CE using SLUTH to format the HP 3000's 7920 when he was done with the HP 2000 testing. The first few months we had our HP 2000 ACCESS we had a variety of strange hardware problems, but by the time the system was 6 or so months old, HP had found and fixed all the problems. John *** When replying to this message, please do not delete these *** *** signature lines. Otakon Katsucon HP3000-L @classiccmp.org *** From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jan 25 20:20:04 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Picked up a B+K Precision 1466 Oscilloscope Message-ID: <010001c3e3b2$ea63f8d0$72406b43@66067007> Got the scope for $3 and it powers on ok but has not been tested yet. Will now have to find a manual for it. From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Jan 25 20:39:27 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: PDP Manual on eBay References: Message-ID: <002a01c3e3b5$9e4a96e0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> David, The PDP8/A did not use a microprocessor. It was TTL SSI/MSI like the 8/E, though ia different design and packaged more densely. The 8/A replaced some random logic with small ROMSs, and later models used semiconductor memory instead of core. All subsequent models, e.g., vT78 and DecMate, were microprocessor-based. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 3:56 PM Subject: RE: PDP Manual on eBay > Actually that (I am pretty sure) is a version that focuses mainly on the > PDP-8/a which was microprocessor (rather than discrete component) based. > > Earlier editions (which had more information on Flip-Chip based designs),are > much more useful to those intersted in older PDP-8's (/I /E /L /M /S). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 25 20:34:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha In-Reply-To: <000901c3e34e$e8e74250$2201a8c0@finans> References: <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040125213403.00803a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Nico, I posted it at Joe At 03:24 PM 1/25/04 +0100, you wrote: >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 2:54 PM >Subject: Re: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha > > >> I have a PDF copy of the YD-180 drive if you need it. FWIW in the >> General Information section of the manual they state that it's compatible >> with the IBM 3740 drive so it should certainly handle that format. >> > >I would appreciate a copy of the PDF file >Thanks > >Nico > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 25 20:43:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha In-Reply-To: <4013ECBB.EABAD10C@compsys.to> References: <541A5FA4-4EEA-11D8-AC24-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040125214312.0085ce30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:20 AM 1/25/04 -0500, Jerome Fine wrote: > >If you can find someone near by with a DSD system, that >would be best. YES!! But remember that a DSD 440 and a DSD 880 is >rather heavy. If an LLF is a one time requirement, then it >would be less expensive to ship a few floppies around. This is true. FYI I shipped about 30 lbs of disks (about 300 8" disks) from Florida to Al in California for $12 using USPS Media mail. That works out to about $.04 per disk. Joe From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jan 25 20:53:41 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) In-Reply-To: <20040126014654.65110.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200401252138968.SM01024@bobdev> I used to use this all the time, years ago. It has something to do with releasing the system from being locked to the video sync, so it causes screen updates to occur much faster. A side effect is "sparkles" on the scren when things are displayed (because both the CPU and video system are referencing video memory at the same time) Almost every program I wrote had this POKE at the beginning. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steven Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:47 PM To: classic Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) My first attempt at the so-called killer poke on my Commodore PET 2001-8 resulted in a 30% speed increase! I used "POKE 59458,62" No smoke, either! Steve. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Jan 25 21:01:04 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: PDP Manual on eBay In-Reply-To: <002a01c3e3b5$9e4a96e0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: My apologies then, should have checked the reference materials. The only time I was "Face-2-Face" with a PDP-8/A was during a short stint at Racal-Milgo in Miama (1980-1981). That one definately used semiconductor memory. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Maddox Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:39 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: PDP Manual on eBay David, The PDP8/A did not use a microprocessor. It was TTL SSI/MSI like the 8/E, though ia different design and packaged more densely. The 8/A replaced some random logic with small ROMSs, and later models used semiconductor memory instead of core. All subsequent models, e.g., vT78 and DecMate, were microprocessor-based. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 3:56 PM Subject: RE: PDP Manual on eBay > Actually that (I am pretty sure) is a version that focuses mainly on the > PDP-8/a which was microprocessor (rather than discrete component) based. > > Earlier editions (which had more information on Flip-Chip based designs),are > much more useful to those intersted in older PDP-8's (/I /E /L /M /S). From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 25 21:00:10 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) References: Message-ID: <002801c3e3b8$82e79ad0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I had written.... > > >{my emulator} emulates not just a CPU, but a whole > > >computer room full of separate (or connected) HP systems, printers, etc. To which Mike Gemeny replied... > > Just for the record SIMH does too, it now has all of the peripherals required to run Access. Ummm no, I don't think SIMH does do this. Perhaps I didn't clearly say what I meant. HPEMU (my emulator) supports emulating multiple HP systems simultaneously, on one real machine. You can configure an HP21MX running RTE, an HP2100 running 2000E, and an HP2114 running DOS, and a SINGLE copy of HPEMU runs ALL three complete computer systems, each with their own set of different peripherals...simultaneously. That's what I mean by it emulates not just a "cpu". I didn't mean it also emulates peripherals, which it does, I mean it emulates multiple separate HP computer systems (cpu AND peripherals), and actually executes them at the same time. You can specify links between the systems if you want... like sync interfaces, serial cable connects, etc. So the multiple systems being emulated can actually talk to eachother. To my knowledge the only way SIMH might do this is if you ran multiple copies of SIMH, perhaps in separate windows. And even then, not sure it would let you cross connect cables between the systems. But I may be wrong about this. Jay From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 21:52:21 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> References: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <1075088395.2588.4.camel@fiche> On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 14:59, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Might have been a tie. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible says that Columbia came up > with an IBM clone in early 1982. I AM NO EXPERT on this, but I'd like to point out that the meaning of "compatible" was far more slippery then than now. AFAIK the Phoenix BIOS was the first true compatible (eg. the number of incompatibilities was very, very small). The early Compaq machines were considered "compatible" even though they did not have 100% ROM compatibility, and the video interface was different. A lot of software in '82 - '84 used things like int 10h to talk video to 25x80 mono screens, don't forget... and that's trivial to do (eg. on my Multibuss/TVI-950 MSDOS 3 machine!) > > Steve Weyhrich in his Apple history timeline puts the Franklin 100 (1000?) > in March 1982. > http://apple2history.org/history/appy/ahb3.html > Brian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witchy" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 3:05 PM > Subject: RE: Who was first? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > > > Festival > > > Sent: 24 January 2004 19:47 > > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > > Subject: Re: Who was first? > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > > > > > > I had always thought Lazer was the first Apple Clone??? We > > > used to have > > > > more of those then real Apple ]['s in college back in 84-88 > > > > > > Franklin, I believe, came out with the "first" (as far as is known) > Apple > > > ][ clone. > > > > Aye, and they were the first to get sued by Apple for doing so :) > > > > w > > From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 22:00:45 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <002301c3e2ea$5774c180$0300a8c0@look.ca> References: <002301c3e2ea$5774c180$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <1075088900.2587.7.camel@fiche> I once had in my hands a nice little Thinkertoys CP/M clamshell computer, you could fold it in half while it was running! Wish I had one. Saw it at Ezra Shapiro's office at BYTE in early 80's. I don't recall anything else about it. Wish I had one though! On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 18:23, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > it wasn't the first > > portable by a long chalk but which one does everyone remember? > > Since the first portable was the Hyperion and I have a basement full of > them, I'm hoping that people have long memories. > > BM From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 22:02:27 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <000b01c3e2eb$df1e4240$6401a8c0@Wayne> References: <000b01c3e2eb$df1e4240$6401a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: <1075089002.2588.10.camel@fiche> Har har, I swear, a brochure with the Royal McBee LGP-30 or is it LGP-21 calls it "portable". One person can carry it (well the CPU cabinet anyways). We've had this thread recently... :-) tomj On Sat, 2004-01-24 at 18:35, Wayne Smith wrote: > > > it wasn't the first > > > portable by a long chalk but which one does everyone remember? > > > > Since the first portable was the Hyperion and I have a > > basement full of them, I'm hoping that people have long memories. > > > I think the first one to "call" itself a "portable" was the "IBM 5100 > Portable Computer" - circa 1975 (although I think there might have been > a 1950s computer that also called itself a "portable" in that you could > move it around on a truck). > > -W > > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jan 25 21:51:49 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache Schematics Message-ID: <40148ED5.4090502@jcwren.com> Does anyone have scans of the schematics for the Attache, particularly as it relates to the keyboard? I know I paper schematics in my warehouse, somewhere, but I can't seem to turn them up. --jc From tomj at wps.com Sun Jan 25 22:10:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075089503.2588.12.camel@fiche> One of the best things to do is also the easiest: move them inside and leave them, untouched, in a dry place for 24 or more hours. On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 13:32, David V. Corbin wrote: > The largest problem will be condensation. If moisture accumulates, it fill > mix with any contaminants to produce a nice conductive film which can > destroy (short out) all of the electronics on power up. > > The second (and much easier to deal with) is mechanical tolerance issues. > Things contract when they get cold and expand when warming up (we all know > this). If the devices are turned on (especially older items) the effects can > be significant enough that the mechanics will be out of tolerance and bind > and possible bend or break. This is easily cured by NOT turning them on > until they have completely reached room temperature. > > As I said, the moisture problem is much more severe. If the items are packed > in SEALED packaged with a decent amount of Sodium Silicate (or other drying > agent) this should not be much of a problem. But (unfortunatley) we usually > dont pay this much attention when packing "average" gear for storage. > > One technique I have used successfully is to (at least partially) > disassemble the device [covers off at a minimum] while it is still extremely > cold. After my finger thaw out, I will then bring it in to an enclosed area > that has almost no humidity (hot air heating, dehumidifier, chemical water > absorbers) and let it warm up in there. This will usually eliminate the > formation of and condensate. > > > Hope this helps. > > David. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:03 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Effect of COLD > > > > Is there any problem with data stored in a garage when the temperature drops > to -20? I just found out where my moved a bunch of my machines (Cromemco, > nabu, pets, Tandy's). > > Any precautions to take when moving them back indoors? > > Mike > > -- > Ottawa, Canada > > Collector of vintage computers > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 From cb at mythtech.net Sun Jan 25 22:00:32 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: more vintage PC junk available free (some good!) Message-ID: >> Complete Epson Equity I+ system, monitor, keyboard, system unit. All epson >> brand original set. Haven't opened it up but I suspect it's an 8080 or such, >> 360K floppy. Cute stylish setup. > >I believe that it is a DOS machine - possibly 286. I had an Equity II and it was an 8088 IIRC, so I would think the Equity I was probably an 8086, with maybe I+ being an 8088 (or maybe still an 8086). I can't confirm specs on the Equity II anymore as I sold it to someone on this list long ago (but I know it was either an 8088 or an 8086) -chris From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Jan 25 22:12:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: PDP Manual on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401260419.XAA17891@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > [...PDP-8s and what they used for computation and RAM...] I once owned an 8/F (er, a "pdp 8/f" I think the faceplate said) and it quite definitely used real ferrite core for RAM. I'm sure of this both from physical inspection and from its preserving its contents faithfully across multi-week-long power-downs. Whether this was true of all 8/fs or not I have no idea. I do know that memory was addable and removable (my machine had five of eight possible banks populated), so presumably it would be possible to replace a board of core with a board of semiconductor RAM provided you were careful to present the same interface to the rest of the machine. I also never looked in enough detail to see whether it used discrete stock chips, ROMs, custom chips, or what, for its logic. It was made up of enough boards that I'd have no trouble believing the first. I no longer have the machine. I gave it to a much more serious collector quite some years ago, in the late '90s I believe it was. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 25 22:23:42 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <1075088395.2588.4.camel@fiche> References: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> <1075088395.2588.4.camel@fiche> Message-ID: <20040125201419.C50098@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > I AM NO EXPERT on this, but I'd like to point out that the meaning of > "compatible" was far more slippery then than now. AFAIK the Phoenix BIOS > was the first true compatible (eg. the number of incompatibilities was > very, very small). The early Compaq machines were considered > "compatible" even though they did not have 100% ROM compatibility, and > the video interface was different. A lot of software in '82 - '84 used > things like int 10h to talk video to 25x80 mono screens, don't forget... > and that's trivial to do (eg. on my Multibuss/TVI-950 MSDOS 3 machine!) I agree that NOTHING was 100% compatible! But, I don't understand what your point is,... The usual video for the Compaq portables was CGA (connected with a mid-board connector to the internal B&W monitor) IIRC, it responded pretty much identically to the IBM CGA, in terms of INT10h, and to direct video writes to segment B800h. In what ways was its video interface (except for the extra internal connector) different? OTOH, the Corona had some noticeable differences, such as the character attribute of 78h. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sun Jan 25 22:36:58 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: RSX-11M Message-ID: I came into a big load of 5.25" floppies today. Almost all are Apple related, but there are 2 boxes labeled "Digital". The only disk in these boxes that are labled says: RSX Mini-SYS V4.6 RSX-11M V4.6 03/23/92 I thought that looked interesting. Is there any sw that can read these under Win32 or Linux? I don't have any DEC hw but was interested to see if most of these disks are blank or if they might have anything of interest on them. dc From ernestls at attbi.com Sun Jan 25 22:59:45 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) In-Reply-To: <200401252138968.SM01024@bobdev> References: <200401252138968.SM01024@bobdev> Message-ID: <1075093185.4752.0.camel@ernest> On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 18:53, Bob Lafleur wrote: > A side effect is "sparkles" on the > scren when things are displayed (because both the CPU and video system are > referencing video memory at the same time) Hot Damn! I like sparkles. From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 25 23:15:26 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:49 2005 Subject: RSX-11M In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Damien Cymbal wrote: > I came into a big load of 5.25" floppies today. Almost all are Apple > related, but there are 2 boxes labeled "Digital". The only disk in these > boxes that are labled says: > > RSX Mini-SYS V4.6 > RSX-11M V4.6 > 03/23/92 > > I thought that looked interesting. Is there any sw that can read these > under Win32 or Linux? I don't have any DEC hw but was interested to see if > most of these disks are blank or if they might have anything of interest on > them. Damien, a copy of AnaDisk will permit you to take a sector by sector look at them, or just a scan to determine if they are formatted. - don > dc > > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 25 23:54:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Effects of MOVING...... In-Reply-To: <021301c3e39d$c3894630$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > P.S. Why is it that Ultima IV cost $50 new back in 1980's and new games cost > the same 20 years later while computers are cheaper then dirt? Because hardware, good or bad, is a commodity, but good software is not. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 00:01:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <6552E084-4F98-11D8-B61A-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Not necessarily true. I got T-boned in an intersection, totalling my > car, a few years ago, and the only thing the other driver's insurance > didn't fight over was the value of the laptop that got hurled off the > back seat. Not only was the thing (a Sharp 8700) not documented, but I > had built it from 2 dead units and I think I had $250 or so invested in > it. I told the adjuster what it was worth based on the cost to replace > it, and that I couldn't find the receipts (true) and they accepted my > appraisal without argument. It's not a good comparison, because in this case a laptop is a known commodity with a pretty fixed value, and that value can be understood in the very least by an insurance adjuster who probably uses one. When my house got broken in to, I claimed the replacement value of my 1998 Compaq Presario 200Mhz laptop with no battery based on what a typical laptop of today would cost and the insurance didn't bat an eye. A PDP-8 is a historical item, and assigning a value is a wholly different thing. It can't be valued like a laptop because compared to modern hardware it has depreciated to the point of being worth whatever scrap value it contains. If it is to be valued as a historic item, then first you must prove that it is indeed historic and therefore has an equivalent monetary value. Then you'd have to come up with a value based on hard (or at least very convincing) figures from previous sales. This will be a challenge but not impossible. There are enough indicators to be able to value this at some level that the insurance company will definitely want to wrangle over it (and they will, based on what I think a PDP-8 is worth). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 00:02:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, William Maddox wrote: > If I understand correctly, he's looking to collect from the driver's > liability insurance, not his own homeowner's, so the rider doesn't > apply here. That still leaves the problem of proving the machine's > value. I saw the earlier posting on alt.sys.pdp8, and suggested to > David that he contact Sellam, whose professional involvement in appraisal > and brokerage might carry some weight with the insurance company. > If it came to that, I'd certainly threaten to sue for the damages and not > just roll over if they don't want to pay. Ah, thanks! :) > Have any straight-8s changed hands on Ebay? I know an 8/S went > for $3000. I've often claimed that my straight-8 is worth that much > to those who are inclinced to think of it as "old junk", but that is based > on not much more than the fact that I would personally pay that much > for the one I have if I didn't own it already and it were offered to me. Try at least 3.5 times that as a starting value and you're getting close ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 00:05:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > > This stuff is not covered on your normal policy. > > Which is the precise point of our contention. We're not talking > about a homeowners' or renters' policy at all, we're talking about > liability coverage. When it's robbery or "acts of God", and the > insurance company represents nobody but themselves, they are indeed > likely to dispute every item. At least in Texas, US, when there _is_ a > policyholder that's this clearly in the wrong, and the possibility of > intangible damages (pain & anguish) is very high, the insurance company > isn't likely to quibble over paying a few grand for unique equipment. Point taken. > Worst case, the owner of the straight-8 might need to prove, by way > of witness affidavits, that it was functional prior to the assault. It needn't be functional. Only that it was a complete unit in decent shape, and its value on the market be proven through anecdotal evidence or hard sales figures. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From borisg at unixg.ubc.ca Mon Jan 26 00:20:11 2004 From: borisg at unixg.ubc.ca (Boris Gimbarzevsky) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Water damaged computer books available Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040125220943.01cb33a8@pop.unixg.ubc.ca> Recently I had a flood in a storage room and a number of computer books unfortunately got soaked. They are drying, but as some of them are starting to grow rather colorfull fungi, and I've been told they have to go. In the interests of maintaining domestic tranquility, the following material is available to whoever wants to pay me to ship it to your address (they will be dry when shipped): PDP-8/L handbook Laboratory computer handbook (on programming the PDP-12) Complete copy of Inside MacIntosh manuals. Megamax C manual for MacIntosh (I don't know where the disks are) Byte Magazines from 1988 and thereabouts (when Byte was worth reading). If anyone is interested, contact me off list at: borisg at unixg dot ubc dot ca and use the string "Aaardvark" in the subject line to get past my spam filter. These materials are going into the garbage in 4 weeks if there is no interest. Boris Gimbarzevsky From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 00:28:24 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2004, at 12:01 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> Not necessarily true. I got T-boned in an intersection, totalling >> my >> car, a few years ago, and the only thing the other driver's insurance >> didn't fight over was the value of the laptop that got hurled off the >> back seat. Not only was the thing (a Sharp 8700) not documented, but >> I >> had built it from 2 dead units and I think I had $250 or so invested >> in >> it. I told the adjuster what it was worth based on the cost to >> replace >> it, and that I couldn't find the receipts (true) and they accepted my >> appraisal without argument. > > It's not a good comparison, because in this case a laptop is a known > commodity with a pretty fixed value, and that value can be understood > in > the very least by an insurance adjuster who probably uses one. When my > house got broken in to, I claimed the replacement value of my 1998 > Compaq > Presario 200Mhz laptop with no battery based on what a typical laptop > of > today would cost and the insurance didn't bat an eye. GAH! Ok, forget the laptop! I never meant to compare the ease of appraisal of a semi-current PC to that of a PDP-8. I simply wanted to illustrate that in an accident where the insurance company is the agent of a tangible party who is demonstrably at fault, they almost *never* argue about anything they can't look up in a blue-book. They know very well that even if they "win" a dispute over the value of damaged property, the fact that they disputed that "trivial" evaluation can come back to bite them in the larger issues, which are the intangible damages. > A PDP-8 is a historical item, and assigning a value is a wholly > different > thing. It can't be valued like a laptop because compared to modern > hardware it has depreciated to the point of being worth whatever scrap > value it contains. If it is to be valued as a historic item, then > first > you must prove that it is indeed historic and therefore has an > equivalent > monetary value. Then you'd have to come up with a value based on hard > (or at least very convincing) figures from previous sales. This can only benefit the injured party in this case. PDP-8 components come up often enough on eBay, and sell, to demonstrate salability and intrinsic value. Anybody with access to this list can easily come up with reasonably recent examples of equipment sales, and most will be documented to some extent. Anybody with access to your print library can show at least a couple of fairly recent (and generous) published valuations of like hardware. > This will be a challenge but not impossible. There are enough > indicators > to be able to value this at some level that the insurance company will > definitely want to wrangle over it (and they will, based on what I > think a > PDP-8 is worth). The big issue isn't going to be getting paid, but finding a replacement at any price. Doc From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 00:28:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <1075088900.2587.7.camel@fiche> Message-ID: On 25 Jan 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > I once had in my hands a nice little Thinkertoys CP/M clamshell > computer, you could fold it in half while it was running! Wish I had > one. Saw it at Ezra Shapiro's office at BYTE in early 80's. I don't > recall anything else about it. Wish I had one though! As far as I know, Thinkertoys never made a clamshell portable. Morrow made a clamshell-like portable called the Pivot. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 00:30:22 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E8FC4A4-4FC9-11D8-BF90-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 26, 2004, at 12:05 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Point taken. > >> Worst case, the owner of the straight-8 might need to prove, by way >> of witness affidavits, that it was functional prior to the assault. > > It needn't be functional. Only that it was a complete unit in decent > shape, and its value on the market be proven through anecdotal evidence > or hard sales figures. Oops. I should have read this post before I replied to the other one. I think we're actually on the same page here. I need to note that on my calendar. :) Doc From nico at farumdata.dk Mon Jan 26 01:09:01 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha References: <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040125213403.00803a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004801c3e3db$46de1b90$2201a8c0@finans> Thanks Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 3:34 AM Subject: Re: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha > Nico, > > I posted it at > > Joe > > At 03:24 PM 1/25/04 +0100, you wrote: > >From: "Joe R." > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 2:54 PM > >Subject: Re: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha > > > > > >> I have a PDF copy of the YD-180 drive if you need it. FWIW in the > >> General Information section of the manual they state that it's compatible > >> with the IBM 3740 drive so it should certainly handle that format. > >> > > > >I would appreciate a copy of the PDF file > >Thanks > > > >Nico > > > > > From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Sun Jan 25 22:58:10 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> William Maddox wrote: > > >Have any straight-8s changed hands on Ebay? I know an 8/S went >for $3000. I've often claimed that my straight-8 is worth that much >to those who are inclinced to think of it as "old junk", but that is based >on not much more than the fact that I would personally pay that much >for the one I have if I didn't own it already and it were offered to me. > >--Bill > > > > > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of equipment? Jim Davis, I just about shot soda pop through my nose. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 20:44:27 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: interesting finds: Datapoint 2400 for HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040119200921.00852100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040126024427.46820.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Would you be willing to sell that modem? I would love to have it... if you are willing to sell it. Lyos Norezel "Joe R." wrote: I was digging through a bunch of cables today and found a DataPoint 2400 MODEM with the cables still attached. The cables look like they're for an HP 1000. The hoods on the far end said HP (something)(something)618. I've looked and tried to figure out what card that might be but didn't find anything. Asnybody know what card that is? Anybody know anything about the DataPoint 2400 MODEM? I didn't see a manufacturer's name but it has the Bell symbol on it. Joe --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 20:44:27 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: interesting finds: Datapoint 2400 for HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040119200921.00852100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040126024427.46820.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Would you be willing to sell that modem? I would love to have it... if you are willing to sell it. Lyos Norezel "Joe R." wrote: I was digging through a bunch of cables today and found a DataPoint 2400 MODEM with the cables still attached. The cables look like they're for an HP 1000. The hoods on the far end said HP (something)(something)618. I've looked and tried to figure out what card that might be but didn't find anything. Asnybody know what card that is? Anybody know anything about the DataPoint 2400 MODEM? I didn't see a manufacturer's name but it has the Bell symbol on it. Joe --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sun Jan 25 23:15:21 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <262B1E42-4F82-11D8-9C58-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u before you fry your machine. Lyos Gemini Norezel Doc Shipley wrote: Funny coincidence, there. I just hacked a Sprint CAD-1000 AC adapter onto a JetDirect Ex+ last night. The receptacle of the JD is odd, so I had to pull the board and solder the adapter direct. Other than that, it's the right voltage, and a little over-amped (1A vs the JD's rated 800mA). --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Jan 26 01:34:39 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Fw: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? Message-ID: <010a01c3e3de$db0727f0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> > The big issue isn't going to be getting paid, but finding a > replacement at any price. At the time of the last e-mail I exchanged with David, he was hoping that a restoration was possible. He wasn't sure of the exact extent of the damage, but seemed to think that the power supply, the front panel glass, and the plexiglass covers had taken the worst of of it. Since the minimum restoration effort would require one-off fabrication of the covers and panel glass, this would not be cheap. The process that Bob Armstrong used for the SBC6120 front panel would produce a very nice replacement, though it be plastic. Doing the work as an insurance settlement would probably require that it be contracted to a professional who could provide a quotation. Honestly, I have no knowledge of anyone who works professionally on stuff quite this old! There are apparently a few caches of flip-chips from that era around, though getting a collector to part with some spares could be expensive as well. In any case, that was David's thinking moreso than reaching a cash-for-scrap settlement. --Bill From richlist at sias.us Mon Jan 26 01:37:46 2004 From: richlist at sias.us (Rich Sias) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: 8 inch drives In-Reply-To: <20031213211828.39820.qmail@web14812.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031213211828.39820.qmail@web14812.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ** Reply to message from Greg Jones on Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:18:28 -0800 (PST) > Do you have any more 8 inch drives or know where I can get some? > > Thanks I have several. I also have some S-100 systems too. They were working last time I ran them in 1988 ! Gee it has been a while hasn't it ? Rich From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Jan 26 01:43:01 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com><00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <011201c3e3e0$065159c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> I believe it was just a bare CPU. There was some discussion of a few months ago. I caught the tail-end of the discussion just as I joined the list. I believe it was actually someone on the list who bought it! The 8/S is actually very rare machine. Although they had a good run (comparable to the Straight-8), the performance was very poor, unlike the Straight 8 that held up rather well in performance (though not price) against its successors. There weren't too many of them saved. From some pictures I saw, it appeared to be an excellent specimen, too. Certainly if your interest is "DEC collectibles" rather than a nice running setup, this machine would be a valuable one to have. Why do people value the Straight-8 so much when the 8/E was the pinnacle of the family in terms of the kind of system it would support? Certainly, if you just want to run an 8, you'd be best advised to avoid the Straight 8. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:58 PM Subject: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > William Maddox wrote: > > > > > > >Have any straight-8s changed hands on Ebay? I know an 8/S went > >for $3000. I've often claimed that my straight-8 is worth that much > >to those who are inclinced to think of it as "old junk", but that is based > >on not much more than the fact that I would personally pay that much > >for the one I have if I didn't own it already and it were offered to me. > > > >--Bill > > > > > > > > > > > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > equipment? > > Jim Davis, I just about shot soda pop through my nose. > From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Jan 26 01:50:59 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011c01c3e3e1$23760630$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Huh? Did I miss something? We're talking about a power supply here, right? A power supply should provide the specified voltage. The power supply must be rated at *at least* the current (Amps) or power (Watts) drawn by the load, but an excess here does not hurt. Some power supplies require a minimum load in order to operate correctly, that is not likely to be an issue here. You will fry a power supply if you pull too much current from it. You cannot *provide* too much current to the load -- it draws what it wants to. You *can* provide too much voltage. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyos Norezel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u before you fry your machine. > Lyos Gemini Norezel > > Doc Shipley wrote: > > Funny coincidence, there. I just hacked a Sprint CAD-1000 AC adapter > onto a JetDirect Ex+ last night. The receptacle of the JD is odd, so I > had to pull the board and solder the adapter direct. Other than that, > it's the right voltage, and a little over-amped (1A vs the JD's rated > 800mA). > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Jan 26 01:54:08 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4014C7A0.40203@pacbell.net> Lyos -- Power supplies are almost always supply constant voltage, not constant current. The current rating is the maximum amount of current they can supply while still nominally achieving their specified voltage rating. If you hooked up a "5V 1000A" power supply to something that normally required "5V 350 mA", nothing bad would happen. Also, it seems just wrong to say that giving even 1 mA too much to a device could kill it. For example, supplying 801 mA instead of the stated 800 mA would mean that the power supply would have to have 0.125% constant current regulation -- a very tough spec to meet. Probably the most common constant current application that comes to mind would be RS-232, but even there, most people just use +/- 12V with a resistor instead; for most applications the healthy margin in the spec is enough that things work anyway. Lyos Norezel wrote: > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u before you fry your machine. > Lyos Gemini Norezel > > Doc Shipley wrote: > > Funny coincidence, there. I just hacked a Sprint CAD-1000 AC adapter > onto a JetDirect Ex+ last night. The receptacle of the JD is odd, so I > had to pull the board and solder the adapter direct. Other than that, > it's the right voltage, and a little over-amped (1A vs the JD's rated > 800mA). From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 26 02:08:46 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the > wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost > never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u > before you fry your machine. Er... what? The voltage rating is the value you need to worry about. If you put a 16V supply on a device that needs 5V, you're gonna smoke the device. As for the current rating, the device will not draw more current from the PS than it requires, so as long as the supply is rated at or above your requirements, you're okay. It also is probably worth pointing out that the definition of "power" (measured in Watts) is not the same as "current" (measured in amps). -brian. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 02:14:53 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040126081453.GA30246@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 02:26:21PM -0800, steve wrote: > Unless he had an "official" independent appraisal by a > recognized insurance appraiser who described the PDP-8 > piece in detail and establish a value for it by > physically looking/photographing/videotaping the > equipment, and had it reviewed and approved by an his > insurance agent, and applied for the rider and payed > the extra premium for the rider, he has a snowballs > chance in hell in collecting anything. >From his own homeowners' insurance, that's correct. They have maximum values placed on items that aren't specifically appraised for any collectible item. That's why I got the maximum computer rider that my insurer provides - $25,000. It's not enough, but it's all they will give me. In this case, however, he's trying to collect from the _driver's_ company (if I read the posting correctly). That will end up being his lawyer and/or insurance company fighting with the driver's company as to the value of the item. He still doesn't have a great chance of fair compensation, but his chances are better than if a tree fell on his PDP-8 or a hurricane blew it across the yard. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 08:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.6 F (-28.7 C) Windchill -43.8 F (-42.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.19 kts Grid 068 Barometer 688.9 mb (10293. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 02:27:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Jim Davis wrote: > >Have any straight-8s changed hands on Ebay? I know an 8/S went > >for $3000. I've often claimed that my straight-8 is worth that much > >to those who are inclinced to think of it as "old junk", but that is based > >on not much more than the fact that I would personally pay that much > >for the one I have if I didn't own it already and it were offered to me. > > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > equipment? I consider $3,000 a very good price for an 8/S. It's got a very interesting architecture (serial), was considered the "cheap-o" PDP-8, not many (relatively) were sold and thus it is probably as rare, if not more so, as/than the "straight" 8. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 02:33:12 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) In-Reply-To: <20040126014654.65110.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126014654.65110.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040126083312.GB30246@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 05:46:54PM -0800, steven wrote: > My first attempt at the so-called killer poke on my > Commodore PET 2001-8 resulted in a 30% speed increase! > > I used "POKE 59458,62" > > No smoke, either! That's because it's a 2001-8. The old, TTL video PETs used that POKE to, in effect, let BASIC "ignore" the vertical blanking interrupt. In essence, the ROM routing for PRINT checks the VBI and only fiddles with video memory when the beam is off. That's why directly manipulating screen memory in machine language was always faster. The problem came with _later_ models than yours. IIRC, the effect of the "killer poke" was to change the direction of a bit in a PIA or VIA from an input bit to an output bit. The consequence of that is, with one of the later models with a different video circuit, a totem-pole transistor arrangement was permanently engaged and one of the transistors was overdriven and smoked. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 08:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.5 F (-28.6 C) Windchill -45.5 F (-43.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 066 Barometer 688.9 mb (10293. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 02:37:16 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 08:58:10PM -0800, Jim Davis wrote: > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > equipment? When I asked Sellam about one that went for $1700 a couple of years ago, he thought that was a fair price. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 08:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.5 F (-28.6 C) Windchill -46.5 F (-43.6 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 065 Barometer 688.8 mb (10297. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 02:41:37 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <262B1E42-4F82-11D8-9C58-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040126084137.GE30246@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 09:15:21PM -0800, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u before you fry your machine. > Lyos Gemini Norezel Woah! Stop right there! The voltage _might_ or _might not_ be critical depending on the nature of the circuit just to the left of the plug (i.e., a 7805 can take a wide range of voltages), but I have seen other devices blow from being just a volt or two off. Some things work at *only* the rated voltage. Amperage is another matter entirely. If the brick offers too much, that's no problem. The device will draw what it needs. Where you run unto trouble is when you use a brick that's too small. If the device wants 800mA and you plug in a brick at the right voltage but at 500mA, I would say that eventually the brick is going to smoke. If you give it a 1.2A brick, all will be well. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 08:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.5 F (-28.6 C) Windchill -46.5 F (-43.6 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 065 Barometer 688.8 mb (10297. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 02:44:59 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: References: <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <20040126084459.GF30246@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 10:02:08PM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Try at least 3.5 times that as a starting value and you're getting close > ;) I have two with two DF-32 platters each... As I said, a $25,000 rider is not enough. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 08:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.4 F (-28.6 C) Windchill -47.5 F (-44.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.30 kts Grid 065 Barometer 688.8 mb (10297. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jan 26 03:17:00 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <011c01c3e3e1$23760630$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <011c01c3e3e1$23760630$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <200401260922.EAA00674@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Huh? Did I miss something? We're talking about a power supply here, > right? > A power supply should provide the specified voltage. > The power supply must be rated at *at least* the current (Amps) or > power (Watts) drawn by the load, but an excess here does not hurt. This is true only of well-regulated supplies. Wall-warts (which is the form of power supply I thought we were talking about here) often are not well-regulated. A wall-wart rated at 6V 750mA is reasonably likely to supply well over 6V if used to power a device that draws only 150mA. Sometimes this doesn't matter. But sometimes it does. Of course, if we're not talking about wall-warts, but instead talking about properly regulated supplyes, never mind. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Jan 26 03:33:58 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Jim Davis asks: > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > equipment? If that's the auction I remember from about six months ago, that 8/S was an anomaly - it didn't have any peripherals attached, but it was well kept up, and it was listed as having... ...serial number 0. The listing suggested it might have been a prototype 8/s. I don't know whether there's any truth in that, but since at least two people were willing to bid the price up over $3,000 it _may_ be possible. Amazing fact? Urban legend? You be the judge! :) -O.- From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 02:56:49 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: PDP Manual on eBay In-Reply-To: <200401260419.XAA17891@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200401260419.XAA17891@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040126085649.GG30246@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 11:12:28PM -0500, der Mouse wrote: > > [...PDP-8s and what they used for computation and RAM...] > > I once owned an 8/F (er, a "pdp 8/f" I think the faceplate said) and it > quite definitely used real ferrite core for RAM. I'm sure of this both > from physical inspection and from its preserving its contents > faithfully across multi-week-long power-downs. That was not an unusual configuration. > Whether this was true of all 8/fs or not I have no idea. I do know > that memory was addable and removable (my machine had five of eight > possible banks populated), so presumably it would be possible to > replace a board of core with a board of semiconductor RAM provided you > were careful to present the same interface to the rest of the machine. DEC and third parties both made MOS memory boards. > I also never looked in enough detail to see whether it used discrete > stock chips, ROMs, custom chips, or what, for its logic. It was made > up of enough boards that I'd have no trouble believing the first. The -8/f (like the -8/e and -8/m) use TTL for the bulk of the processor, along with National Semi and DEC bus drivers (as specified in the small computer handbook). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 08:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.4 F (-28.6 C) Windchill -48.6 F (-44.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.69 kts Grid 071 Barometer 688.7 mb (10301. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 02:24:03 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4014CEA3.2060000@hotmail.com> Lyos Norezel wrote: >Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u before you fry your machine. >Lyos Gemini Norezel > >Doc Shipley wrote: > >Funny coincidence, there. I just hacked a Sprint CAD-1000 AC adapter >onto a JetDirect Ex+ last night. The receptacle of the JD is odd, so I >had to pull the board and solder the adapter direct. Other than that, >it's the right voltage, and a little over-amped (1A vs the JD's rated >800mA). > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > > > WHAT??? I can see an under current supply getting pulled down and causing the evil bug in the LM309K and other vintage regulators to start that self destructive activity. But, too much current is a GOOD THING, Unless you have a short, then, well. But No, You are wrong on multiple levels. Are you a troll? Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 03:15:42 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <011201c3e3e0$065159c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com><00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> <011201c3e3e0$065159c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <4014DABE.6000409@hotmail.com> William Maddox wrote: >I believe it was just a bare CPU. There was some discussion of a few months >ago. >I caught the tail-end of the discussion just as I joined the list. I >believe it was actually >someone on the list who bought it! > >The 8/S is actually very rare machine. Although they had a good run >(comparable >to the Straight-8), the performance was very poor, unlike the Straight 8 >that held up rather >well in performance (though not price) against its successors. There >weren't too many of >them saved. From some pictures I saw, it appeared to be an excellent >specimen, too. >Certainly if your interest is "DEC collectibles" rather than a nice running >setup, this machine >would be a valuable one to have. Why do people value the Straight-8 so much >when the >8/E was the pinnacle of the family in terms of the kind of system it would >support? >Certainly, if you just want to run an 8, you'd be best advised to avoid the >Straight 8. > > > > > I didn't know that the 8/s was that rare, I do know that it was the economy model and had a horrid serial architecture that resulted in it's so-called performance. The straight-8, on the other hand, was a lovely machine, with it's long toggles and incandecent lamps. I suspect that my fingers still know how to toggle in the dectape bootloader from memory. Damn, Now I want one, and with the Tek 8002, dectapes and a swap drive, just like the OMSI 8, Beep. If I did get an 8, it would probably be a 8/E. the straight-8 is a pain to debug, but with a drawer full of transistors and discretes, always repairable. Maybe not that one in the basement :-( Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 03:28:46 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4014DDCE.1030709@hotmail.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Jim Davis wrote: > > > >>>Have any straight-8s changed hands on Ebay? I know an 8/S went >>>for $3000. I've often claimed that my straight-8 is worth that much >>>to those who are inclinced to think of it as "old junk", but that is based >>>on not much more than the fact that I would personally pay that much >>>for the one I have if I didn't own it already and it were offered to me. >>> >>> >>$3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of >>equipment? >> >> > >I consider $3,000 a very good price for an 8/S. It's got a very >interesting architecture (serial), was considered the "cheap-o" PDP-8, not >many (relatively) were sold and thus it is probably as rare, if not more >so, as/than the "straight" 8. > > > I always thought that the straight-8 was the gold standard for collectable 8's. I never considered production quantities for the 8/S. I remember that it was derided by most everybody in the community as being a cheap little substitute for a real 8 when it came out, My mistake! Jim Davis. ;-) Alchemy lives, DEC pdp8/S turns from shit to gold. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 03:59:35 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040126084459.GF30246@bos7.spole.gov> References: <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <20040126084459.GF30246@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <4014E507.701@hotmail.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: >On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 10:02:08PM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > >>Try at least 3.5 times that as a starting value and you're getting close >>;) >> >> > >I have two with two DF-32 platters each... > >As I said, a $25,000 rider is not enough. > >-ethan > > > Anybody have an estimate on the worth of a Symbolics 1200 XL with a color frame buffer and mono tube? My unemployment runs out in a week, and although I have an interview with general software in Seattle, I'm going to need some money. Jim Davis. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 03:49:29 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <011c01c3e3e1$23760630$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> William Maddox wrote: Huh? Did I miss something? We're talking about a power supply here, right? Yes... A power supply should provide the specified voltage. The power supply must be rated at *at least* the current (Amps) or power (Watts) drawn by the load, but an excess here does not hurt. Some power supplies require a minimum load in order to operate correctly, that is not likely to be an issue here. You will fry a power supply if you pull too much current from it. You cannot *provide* too much current to the load -- it draws what it wants to. You *can* provide too much voltage. --Bill Wrong... I'll give you an example which ANYONE and EVERYONE working with electricity should know, and if they don't they SHOULD NOT work on anything even remotely related to electricity until they do know it. You know that it's the current of the electricity is what will kill you right? You could have thousands of volts running through your body and still live. How is this possible, you might ask? Well if the the current (power) is below .5 mA then it should not cause a problem. Ask any electricity teacher "At what point will electricity kill a human being?" and their response will be something along the lines of "Anything at or above .5 mA will (more than likely) kill a human being." Of course there have been cases that said otherwise but this is the majority case. Same thing applies to delicate electronics... apply more amps then it's rated to handle and it's fried. Just last week I fried a 2.4GHz wireless phone by applying a power supply that had exactly the rated voltge but was 1A instead of the required 800mA. I smelled smoke not long after plugging it in. All this in a unit that worked properly with the right PSU just 2 weeks before... the original PSU being lost. Need I say any more? Current is everything... voltage is nothing. Lyos Gemini Norezel BTW- goto the nearest high school and ask the electricity teacher about this... see what he say... then compare it to what I said. Remarkably like, eh? LOL --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 03:52:14 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <4014C7A0.40203@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20040126095214.73794.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> Jim Battle wrote: Lyos -- Power supplies are almost always supply constant voltage, not constant current. The current rating is the maximum amount of current they can supply while still nominally achieving their specified voltage rating. If you hooked up a "5V 1000A" power supply to something that normally required "5V 350 mA", nothing bad would happen. Your high school electricity teacher is groaning in shame right now... please go consult him/her. Lyos Norezel P.S.-see other post --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 04:01:46 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040126100146.18989.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Er... what? The voltage rating is the value you need to worry about. If you put a 16V supply on a device that needs 5V, you're gonna smoke the device. As for the current rating, the device will not draw more current from the PS than it requires, so as long as the supply is rated at or above your requirements, you're okay. It won't smoke your device if the current is exactly the same. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Jan 26 04:37:14 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com><00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100><40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> It seems that the going rate for a complete but "rough" PDP-8/E/F/M pulled from industrial service with no cleaning or restoration is around $1000 on EBay, at least that's what I had to pay to win a couple of auctions recently. These are rather common machines compared to the earlier PDP-8 models. I saw a nicely cleaned up 8/E go for $1700 on Ebay. But in that context, $3000 for a rare 8/S in good condition for operation and display doesn't seem out of line. Annoying, because I'm not collecting for investment and would rather the 8s go for the closer-to-scrap-value prices so many other minis fetch. But I suppose growing values and marketability will help get more machines into the hands of collectors and away from the scrap dealers. Ethan: *Two* straight 8s *and* DF-32s? My envy knows no bounds... ;) . --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 12:37 AM Subject: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 08:58:10PM -0800, Jim Davis wrote: > > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > > equipment? > > When I asked Sellam about one that went for $1700 a couple of years ago, > he thought that was a fair price. > > -ethan > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 08:30 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.5 F (-28.6 C) Windchill -46.5 F (-43.6 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 065 Barometer 688.8 mb (10297. ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 05:10:16 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <20040126111016.GA9085@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 02:37:14AM -0800, William Maddox wrote: > Ethan: *Two* straight 8s *and* DF-32s? My envy knows no bounds... ;) Bounds? Let me put it this way... PDP-8s are the focus of what I've been collecting since 1982. I have yet to aquire a WT78, an -8/f or an -8/m. That's all I'm missing (from the Straight-8s up to an SBC6120 w/front panel). Also, one of the two Straight-8s is the same one depicted on the back of "CPU Wars" by Charlie Andres (my boss sponsored the publication by buying the back ad - there's a Straight-8 and an 11/04 in the picture). I just wish I had some spare DF-32 platters. I'm sure mine are toast. I got my first pair in high school and didn't know how thin the plating is. I powered them up and down over 50 times fixing a problem. The -8/i that I used for testing only had 4kW and 20 years ago, I had no access to any software that talked to a disk besides OS/8. It's still a long-time dream of mine to get a second core stack in it. I had an offer of a swap with a list member, but he's never come to collect the CDC drive that I picked up for him in exchange. Mostly to show off my -8 collection (when I'm in North America ;-), I fire up my first aquisition, a PDP-8/L to which I've added a PC8L. I load FOCAL for them and show them Hammurabi. I had cow-orkers over for a barbeque once, and had the distinct pleasure of loading a DECUS paper tape for the masses that was documentably older than our boss. -ethan P.S. - I brought the SBC6120 with me to the Pole. It's sitting off to my left. I plan to assemble my spare SBC6120 and two IOB6120s this winter. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 10:51 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.7 F (-28.2 C) Windchill -41.3 F (-40.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.8 kts Grid 068 Barometer 688.1 mb (10321. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Jan 26 05:15:09 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <200401251802.i0PI03OP026612@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401251802.i0PI03OP026612@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I have gotten a lot of DECnet-IV systems talking to DECnet-Plus. What you'll > >need to do is register the DECnet-IV systems and then flush the naming cache. > > I've done this with RSX-11M and VAX/VMS without any problem, it's DECnet/E that seems to be the problem. I don't know if I've failed to set something up correctly on the RSTS/E side, or what. > > >After that, you should be able to connect to the Phase-IV system. > > Directory Service: Local name file > > Node name: LOCAL:.rstse > Phase IV synonym: RSTSE > > Address tower protocol and selector values: > Session: DNA_SessionControlV2 (SC2) > 00 13 > Transport: DNA_NSP (NSP) > (no selector value) > Routing: DNA_OSInetwork (CLNS) > 49::00-3C:AA-00-04-00-97-F2:20 (60.663) > > > Number of nodes reported on: 1 > > $ set host rstse > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > $ > > On the RSTS/E system console, I get the following: > > Event type 34.1, Object spawn failure > Occurred 10-Jan-17 17:40:49.5 on node 60.663 (RSTSE) > Reason: Unknown Object identification > Source node = 1.652 > Source process = 0 0 0 HEALYZH > Destination Process = 42 > > There are a couple of odd things about this error, one is that "SHOW > DATE" on the RSTS/E system shows 24-JAN-04 05:40 PM, so it looks like > DECnet/E has a Y2k problem. The other is that the source node is > 60.652, not 1.652 like the error message states. > > The Y2k error shouldn't be a problem, as my RSX-11M system works with > the wrong date. > > On a positive note, I finally got things setup so I can connect to the > RSTS/E system via LAT from the VMS system :^) A few things that might help: Please tell the results of the following on the RSTS/E system. > SHOW KNOWN OBJECTS > SHOW EXEC CHARA (That's in NCP on atleast RSX and VMS phase IV) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Jan 26 05:25:51 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <200401260215.i0Q2EsOP030191@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401260215.i0Q2EsOP030191@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 "Antonio Carlini" wrote: [...] > If you still see no activity, perhaps there is something that sends > the RSTS system off to the wrong place (after all, it said that the > incoming area 60 connection was from area 1). Maybe RSTS does not > implement the area stuff properly (any chance it might be Phase III?) > If you can persuade your hub/switch to monitor traffic connected > to the RSTS box, see if you can do an ethereal trace and decode > the AA-00-04-00 address the RSTS box sends traffic to. Badabing! I just remembered something. Zane, what version of RSTS/E are you running? RSTS/E DECnet was phase III until rather recently. That means some limitations... Phase III only have one area, and can only address node numbers < 256 on that area. This could *also* be the problem. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 26 06:02:36 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: PDP Manual on eBay In-Reply-To: "David V. Corbin" "RE: PDP Manual on eBay" (Jan 25, 18:56) References: Message-ID: <10401261202.ZM20344@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 25, 18:56, David V. Corbin wrote: > Actually that (I am pretty sure) is a version that focuses mainly on the > PDP-8/a which was microprocessor (rather than discrete component) based. > > Earlier editions (which had more information on Flip-Chip based designs),are > much more useful to those intersted in older PDP-8's (/I /E /L /M /S). Nope, I have a copy of that handbook, and it is definitely the one for the PDP-8/E (and 8/F and 8/M), not the 8/A (which followed). And as has already been pointed out, those machines are all TTL. It was the VT/780 and DECmates that used microprocessors. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jan 26 06:25:28 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126100146.18989.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126100146.18989.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040126042511.04d61178@mail.zipcon.net> At 02:01 AM 1/26/2004, you wrote: >It won't smoke your device if the current is exactly the same. Can I have some of what you have been smoking? From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Jan 26 06:21:01 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Power supplies was RE: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01c3e406$dc7074c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Wrong... I think the confusion here is between regulated power supplies (which are the only true power supplies as far as many list members are concerned :-) and unregulated - typically "plug-top"/"wall wart" items. For the former what matters is that the voltage is correct, the current available is at least that required, and (for some designs) that the load is in range for the regulation to work properly. For the latter, the nominal voltage is general only accurate if the current drawn is close to the nominal current. For this sort drawing 500mA from a 2A psu may well allow the voltage to rise significantly. For your phone, however, it is likely something else has gone wrong as phones that take a 12v psu typically can use a car battery which can go up to 14v (at more current that you want to know about!) Andy From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 26 06:15:50 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: Lyos Norezel "Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long)" (Jan 25, 21:15) References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10401261215.ZM20353@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 25, 21:15, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u before you fry your machine. > Lyos Gemini Norezel That's exactly WRONG! It's the voltage (and polarity) that matters, and the power (or current) doesn't, so long as it's "enough". What may sometimes be confusing is that the voltage produced by small power supplies often drops dramatically under load, and that's probably all that's saved our friend above from some disasters. > Doc Shipley wrote: > > Funny coincidence, there. I just hacked a Sprint CAD-1000 AC adapter > onto a JetDirect Ex+ last night. The receptacle of the JD is odd, so I > had to pull the board and solder the adapter direct. Other than that, > it's the right voltage, and a little over-amped (1A vs the JD's rated > 800mA). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 04:56:42 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4014F26A.8090606@hotmail.com> Lyos Norezel wrote: >William Maddox wrote: >Huh? Did I miss something? We're talking about a power supply here, right? > > >Yes... > > >A power supply should provide the specified voltage. The power supply must be rated at *at least* the current (Amps) or power (Watts) drawn by the load, but an excess here does not hurt. Some power supplies require a minimum load in order to operate correctly, that is not likely to be an issue here. You will fry a power supply if you pull too much current from it. You cannot *provide* too much current to the load -- it draws what it wants to. You *can* provide too much voltage. >--Bill > >Wrong... I'll give you an example which ANYONE and EVERYONE working with electricity should know, and if they don't they SHOULD NOT work on anything even remotely related to electricity until they do know it. > >You know that it's the current of the electricity is what will kill you right? You could have thousands of volts running through your body and still live. How is this possible, you might ask? Well if the the current (power) is below .5 mA then it should not cause a problem. Ask any electricity teacher "At what point will electricity kill a human being?" and their response will be something along the lines of "Anything at or above .5 mA will (more than likely) kill a human being." Of course there have been cases that said otherwise but this is the majority case. Same thing applies to delicate electronics... apply more amps then it's rated to handle and it's fried. Just last week I fried a 2.4GHz wireless phone by applying a power supply that had exactly the rated voltge but was 1A instead of the required 800mA. I smelled smoke not long after plugging it in. All this in a unit that worked properly with the right PSU just 2 weeks before... the original PSU being lost. Need I sa! > y any > more? Current is everything... voltage is nothing. > >Lyos Gemini Norezel > >BTW- goto the nearest high school and ask the electricity teacher about this... see what he say... then compare it to what I said. Remarkably like, eh? LOL > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > > > Ack! I typed a 20 line response about punchthrough and electrolitics and slew rates, But then I realised that it was like trying to teach my houseplant calculus. Career tip: If you want a job with electricity, become a electrician. Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 05:10:35 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <20040125222621.84355.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com><00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100><40149E62.60101@hotmail.com> <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <4014F5AB.5030103@hotmail.com> >Ethan: *Two* straight 8s *and* DF-32s? My envy knows no bounds... ;) >. > > > > > > > YOU BASTARD! I have PDP envy! But I still have the symbolic. This voltage/current wallwart thread is the most bizzare thing i've seen in ccom in years. Jim Davis. BTW: How's the weather? It's 20 F. and snow here, Not even on a warm summer day? From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 06:27:49 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:50 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040126042511.04d61178@mail.zipcon.net> References: <20040126100146.18989.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040126042511.04d61178@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <401507C5.6020000@hotmail.com> Geoff Reed wrote: > At 02:01 AM 1/26/2004, you wrote: > >> It won't smoke your device if the current is exactly the same. > > > Can I have some of what you have been smoking? > Bwahahaha, I've written 10 replies, but canceled them all, because I can't teach a house plant calculus. You Win. I need to teach my 10 yo daughter more electronics, so she doesn't get hooked up with whoever is feeding this person such balony. It sounds like scientology or orgon energy! Jim Davis. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 07:04:58 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <4014F5AB.5030103@hotmail.com> References: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <4014F5AB.5030103@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20040126130458.GA15945@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 03:10:35AM -0800, Jim Davis wrote: > > > >Ethan: *Two* straight 8s *and* DF-32s? My envy knows no bounds... ;) > > > YOU BASTARD! I have PDP envy! > But I still have the symbolic. That's a nice one. > This voltage/current wallwart thread is the most bizzare thing i've seen > in ccom in years. Indeed. > Jim Davis. > BTW: How's the weather? It's 20 F. and snow here, Not even on a warm > summer day? It's been great! It's about -20F, light wind, sunny skies (24 hours a day). We are sitting on 2 miles of snow, but we haven't had more than a few millimeters all summer. I'm off to McMurdo for a week of "R&R" (so they call it). Sigh... back down to sea level... Classically speaking, I just grabbed a copy of xelf - a multi-1802 emulator that was announced on the cosmacelf Yahoo group this week. Looks pretty nice. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 13:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.8 F (-28.8 C) Windchill -38.7 F (-39.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.8 kts Grid 073 Barometer 687.5 mb (10345. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jan 26 07:57:52 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <401507C5.6020000@hotmail.com> References: <20040126100146.18989.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040126042511.04d61178@mail.zipcon.net> <401507C5.6020000@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040126055655.03e83ec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 04:27 AM 1/26/2004, you wrote: >Bwahahaha, I've written 10 replies, but canceled them all, because I can't >teach a house >plant calculus. You Win. > >I need to teach my 10 yo daughter more electronics, so she doesn't get >hooked up with >whoever is feeding this person such balony. It sounds like scientology or >orgon energy! >Jim Davis. I kept writing responses (and deleting them), and finally decided that my last statement covered it pretty well :) From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 26 07:56:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: Message-ID: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You're right William. We as collectors need to pony up and be willing to pay the price over scrap. However, I have delt with a couple scrappers who tell me "Oh, I can get $XXX for that in scrap" and I wonder how valid those prices are. How can we know? I believe one scrapper told me that for a 6 foot rack with a 21MX cpu and a small QIC tape drive and small HPIB drive (each of the later units is 19 inches wide, about 4 inches tall, 15 inches deep, and weighs about 15 pounds so we're not talking lots of metal)... that he could get $140 for the scrap metal from it. Is this about right or off-base? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > > The point is that a lot old computer equipment is routinely scrapped for gold, > > as the only salvage value a lot of computers had was in the gold they carried. > > Mostly, yes, but many contain enough aluminum and copper to make it > wothwhile. Now that steel is up again, the frames are not so much of a > liability. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jan 26 08:14:37 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (dvcorbin@optonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. Message-ID: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> >Bwahahaha, I've written 10 replies, but canceled them all, because I can't >teach a house >plant calculus. You Win. > On the other hand, I do keep tring to teach some of my outdoor plants geometery... Seriously the TOTAL lack of regulation on "WallWarts" is quite common. I am currently (preofessionally) developing a product which normally operates off of AC power (via a wallwart), but needs to remort low AC conditions and fall back to battery. The load on this device is VERY dynamic ranging from under 10mA to over 850mA depending on what it is doing. The voltage fluctuations out of the wall wart (which is rated as 11.8V @ 1A) will rise as high as 17V when under a minimal load. Since the device is intended to have a very low production cost, they really cut some regulation requirements on the board as well, since the components WILL tolerate this range of voltages. Unfortunately, the side effect is that the voltage variation based on load is significantly greater than the voltage variation based on fluctuations in the AC (eg during a brown out). This has required the development of software that is constantly monitoriing the "active" state of many of the devices to "calculate" the current load, and then going through a transform to estimate the RAW AC that is providing power to the wart. DAvid. From nico at farumdata.dk Mon Jan 26 08:21:01 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001601c3e417$a0d43b70$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:56 PM Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > You're right William. We as collectors need to pony up and be willing to pay > the price over scrap. However, I have delt with a couple scrappers who tell > me "Oh, I can get $XXX for that in scrap" and I wonder how valid those > prices are. How can we know? I believe one scrapper told me that for a 6 > foot rack with a 21MX cpu and a small QIC tape drive and small HPIB drive > (each of the later units is 19 inches wide, about 4 inches tall, 15 inches > deep, and weighs about 15 pounds so we're not talking lots of metal)... that > he could get $140 for the scrap metal from it. Is this about right or > off-base? Of course I can only talk about Denmark, but the way I see it, he is as filled with lies as a cow with crap. Any item to be recycled, must be treated in certain ways. For cars, e.g., various fluids, batteries, etc have to be removed, etc. The same for fridges, where also the motors have to be removed. In short, the work (and the cost of it) involved is so high, that "raw" things to be recycled cannot be sold. You are lucky to be able to deliver them free of charge at a community recycling center (and that is for private households only). Companies have to PAY to get their shit out of the door. Nico From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Jan 26 07:09:50 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1075121856.15101.2.camel@pluto> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 09:49, Lyos Norezel wrote: > > You know that it's the current of the electricity is what will kill you right? You could have thousands of volts running through your body and still live. How is this possible, you might ask? Well if the the current (power) is below .5 mA then it should not cause a problem. Ask any electricity teacher "At what point will electricity kill a human being?" and their response will be something along the lines of "Anything at or above .5 mA will (more than likely) kill a human being." Of course there have been cases that said otherwise but this is the majority case. Same thing applies to delicate electronics... apply more amps then it's rated to handle and it's fried. Just last week I fried a 2.4GHz wireless phone by applying a power supply that had exactly the rated voltge but was 1A instead of the required 800mA. I smelled smoke not long after plugging it in. All this in a unit that worked properly with the right PSU just 2 weeks before... the original PSU being lost. Need I sa! > y any > more? Current is everything... voltage is nothing. Sorry, that's just nonsense. I've used a variable-voltage bench PSU for powering everything from ZX81s to wireless APs to laptops to homebrewed contraptions for the best part of 20 years (since I started getting involved in electronics). I've never had a problem with a PSU supplying too much current. If the maximum current output is an issue, then the load must be pulling down the output voltage of the PSU, generally a bad thing. Gordon. From jdavis at gorge.net Mon Jan 26 08:52:30 2004 From: jdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> References: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> Message-ID: <401529AE.2010005@gorge.net> dvcorbin@optonline.net wrote: >>Bwahahaha, I've written 10 replies, but canceled them all, because I can't >>teach a house >>plant calculus. You Win. >> >> >> > >On the other hand, I do keep tring to teach some of my outdoor plants geometery... > >Seriously the TOTAL lack of regulation on "WallWarts" is quite common. I am currently (preofessionally) developing a product which normally operates off of AC power (via a wallwart), but needs to remort low AC conditions and fall back to battery. > >The load on this device is VERY dynamic ranging from under 10mA to over 850mA depending on what it is doing. The voltage fluctuations out of the wall wart (which is rated as 11.8V @ 1A) will rise as high as 17V when under a minimal load. > >Since the device is intended to have a very low production cost, they really cut some regulation requirements on the board as well, since the components WILL tolerate this range of voltages. > >Unfortunately, the side effect is that the voltage variation based on load is significantly greater than the voltage variation based on fluctuations in the AC (eg during a brown out). This has required the development of software that is constantly monitoriing the "active" state of many of the devices to "calculate" the current load, and then going through a transform to estimate the RAW AC that is providing power to the wart. > >DAvid. > > > > > I re-read your message, but it's late and I need sleep, The questions I have are? 1) Is the company too cheap to give you a large enough wallwart to power the product under brownout conditions? 2) Why are you computing subsystem current usage if you have no regulator to feed it back into? 3) I forget the third. Right, are you trying to control the voltage by using the components on board as a crude shunt regulator? Ack! BINGO! Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 06:38:39 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Power supplies was RE: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <000c01c3e406$dc7074c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <000c01c3e406$dc7074c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <40150A4F.70506@hotmail.com> Andy Holt wrote: >>Wrong... >> >> > >I think the confusion here is between regulated power supplies (which are >the only true power supplies as far as many list members are concerned :-) >and unregulated - typically "plug-top"/"wall wart" items. > >For the former what matters is that the voltage is correct, the current >available is at least that required, and (for some designs) that the load is >in range for the regulation to work properly. > >For the latter, the nominal voltage is general only accurate if the current >drawn is close to the nominal current. For this sort drawing 500mA from a 2A >psu may well allow the voltage to rise significantly. > >For your phone, however, it is likely something else has gone wrong as >phones that take a 12v psu typically can use a car battery which can go up >to 14v (at more current that you want to know about!) > >Andy > > > > Engineers that design such crap as in the later example should have their arms and legs broken and thrown into a cold, fast moving river. Regulators are pennies and what about over/under line voltage? Jim Davis. I smell a wampus! From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 06:57:31 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <401507C5.6020000@hotmail.com> References: <20040126100146.18989.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040126042511.04d61178@mail.zipcon.net> <401507C5.6020000@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <40150EBB.60400@hotmail.com> Jim Davis wrote: > Geoff Reed wrote: > >> At 02:01 AM 1/26/2004, you wrote: >> >>> It won't smoke your device if the current is exactly the same. >> >> >> >> Can I have some of what you have been smoking? >> > I'm getting a bit loopy and it's really late. I tried to inform ( and gently ) what was wrong. As did about 10 other members of this group. Maybe I got a little caustic, But this guy will not listen to reason, So I figured it was open season. Sorry if I offended anybody. Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 08:04:06 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040126130458.GA15945@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <4014F5AB.5030103@hotmail.com> <20040126130458.GA15945@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40151E56.1000306@hotmail.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: >On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 03:10:35AM -0800, Jim Davis wrote: > > >> >>Jim Davis. >>BTW: How's the weather? It's 20 F. and snow here, Not even on a warm >>summer day? >> >> > >It's been great! It's about -20F, light wind, sunny skies (24 hours a day). >We are sitting on 2 miles of snow, but we haven't had more than a few >millimeters all summer. > >I'm off to McMurdo for a week of "R&R" (so they call it). Sigh... back >down to sea level... Classically speaking, I just grabbed a copy of >xelf - a multi-1802 emulator that was announced on the cosmacelf Yahoo >group this week. Looks pretty nice. > >-ethan > > > > Two miles!, and how many hundreds of thousands of years did you guys not plow the road to allow it to get that high? ;-) R&R, Whats wrong with McMurdo? Net connection slower? Penguins not as cute? 1802 Emulator, Is it just a hex pad / led display toy? The 1802 sure is a interesting architecture, Not a classic cpu, almost a forth engine, but closer to the hardware with the register file and it's pc and acc selection regs. I think writing a compiler for that thing would either make my brain explode or become a 1802 convert. Thanks for the 1802 lead, I collect, hack and play with emulators. Cheers, Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 08:28:32 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> References: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> Message-ID: <40152410.4020408@hotmail.com> dvcorbin@optonline.net wrote: >>Bwahahaha, I've written 10 replies, but canceled them all, because I can't >>teach a house >>plant calculus. You Win. >> >> >> > >On the other hand, I do keep tring to teach some of my outdoor plants geometery... > >Seriously the TOTAL lack of regulation on "WallWarts" is quite common. I am currently (preofessionally) developing a product which normally operates off of AC power (via a wallwart), but needs to remort low AC conditions and fall back to battery. > >The load on this device is VERY dynamic ranging from under 10mA to over 850mA depending on what it is doing. The voltage fluctuations out of the wall wart (which is rated as 11.8V @ 1A) will rise as high as 17V when under a minimal load. > >Since the device is intended to have a very low production cost, they really cut some regulation requirements on the board as well, since the components WILL tolerate this range of voltages. > >Unfortunately, the side effect is that the voltage variation based on load is significantly greater than the voltage variation based on fluctuations in the AC (eg during a brown out). This has required the development of software that is constantly monitoriing the "active" state of many of the devices to "calculate" the current load, and then going through a transform to estimate the RAW AC that is providing power to the wart. > >DAvid. > > > > > How low a production cost,? Can you do the regulation under program control? Just a pass transistor, biased to startup voltage, then use pwm to control the supply? Thats what I might do. If the processor? if there is one? can handle the load ( processing that is ), You might be able to skip the ADC feedback loop if you can put the switching requirements in a pre programmed table, with current requirements depending on operating mode. Jim Davis. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 26 09:06:03 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update Message-ID: Hi folks, Well, I've just board swapped the entire VAX into my MicroPDP cab and it still gets the same error and stops at 3 with an error on the console of '00000000 03' Can anyone remember the uVAX I's boot sequence or remember what it's supposed to do at that point? I've just had a nasty thought in that it might be looking for the RQDX1 and/or RD52 and it's those that are dead. Can I use the RQDX3 in there instead? All *looks* fine with the CPU since it appears to pass its tests. cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 09:26:41 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0A9F837E-5014-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 25, 2004, at 11:15 PM, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the > wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost > never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u > before you fry your machine. ???? That's opposite everything I was ever taught. As long as the voltage and DC polarity are correct, and the power supply provides at least enough amperage for the device, the device itself determines the amount of power it draws. The big worry is that a slightly under-amped PSU can toast itself trying to keep up. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 26 09:31:10 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040126072907.L59331@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On 25 Jan 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > I once had in my hands a nice little Thinkertoys CP/M clamshell > > computer, you could fold it in half while it was running! Wish I had > > one. Saw it at Ezra Shapiro's office at BYTE in early 80's. I don't > > recall anything else about it. Wish I had one though! > > As far as I know, Thinkertoys never made a clamshell portable. Morrow > made a clamshell-like portable called the Pivot. Howard Fullmer designed several other portables for Morrow, before the Pivot. I don't think any went into production. Neither Howard nor George are available for questioning. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 09:32:26 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <40151E56.1000306@hotmail.com> References: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <4014F5AB.5030103@hotmail.com> <20040126130458.GA15945@bos7.spole.gov> <40151E56.1000306@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20040126153226.GA17771@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 06:04:06AM -0800, Jim Davis wrote: > Two miles!, and how many hundreds of thousands of years did you guys not > plow the road to allow it to get that high? ;-) That number is still up for debate. :-) > > R&R, Whats wrong with McMurdo? Net connection slower? Penguins not as cute? Well... their connection is slower, but it's 24x7. They have a T1-speed sat connection that's permanently allocated for internet and phone. We do not - our connections (when they are up) are 100% internet + VoIP. They also have five times as many people hitting the 'net with lots more high-bandwidth e-mail (pictures of penguins, etc). OTOH, they _have_ penguins and we do not (too far from the ocean). > 1802 Emulator, Is it just a hex pad / led display toy? The 1802 sure is > a interesting architecture, It's an emulator for the classic Elf, the Elf-II and the Super-Elf, all rolled into one. It's at... http://www.lv-riley.com/~riley/elf/ > Not a classic cpu, almost a forth engine, but closer to the hardware > with the register file and it's pc and acc selection regs. Sure it's a classic CPU - The P-E articles are from 1976. It's not a PDP of any kind, to be sure, but it's a classic in its own right. > I think writing a compiler for that thing would either make my brain > explode or become a 1802 convert. Personally, I've never written anything for the 1802 that didn't fit on either the P-E Elf (256 bytes) or the COSMAC VIP (4K). I've always done my compiling by hand (as does the lead engineer for the AWS weather boxes down here - he enters stuff into the EPROM programmer in HEX). > Thanks for the 1802 lead, I collect, hack and play with emulators. NP. I collect, hack and play with 1802s! (I'm building an P-E Elf down here, too... I have all the goodies). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 15:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19 F (-28.4 C) Windchill -40.8 F (-40.4 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.6 kts Grid 072 Barometer 687 mb (10365 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jan 26 09:37:18 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (dvcorbin@optonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. Message-ID: <40033e404a04.404a0440033e@optonline.net> Jim, Just to clarify, we are NOT trying to regulate the voltage. Just moniotor if the House AC is stable and within "tolerance". If brown outs are common it needs to be logged (even though it does NOT effect the performance of the device). Also a low A/C voltage may not be providing enough to charge the backup battery. Therefore none of this is part of the control circuitry, but rather more of a crude A/C voltmeter. In terms of "how cheap", the company eliminated even low cost items such items as "berg header" type jumpers (less than 1 penny apiece!). Also by the time it was realized (I am a software consultant to the client on this project and was NOT responsible for the hardware design) that this was an issue, the boards had already been layed-out (and about 150 of them assembled EVEN before a single line of software was written) for the 1000 piece pre-production run. David From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 09:51:54 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <907536E0-5017-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 26, 2004, at 7:56 AM, Jay West wrote: > You're right William. We as collectors need to pony up and be willing > to pay > the price over scrap. However, I have delt with a couple scrappers who > tell > me "Oh, I can get $XXX for that in scrap" and I wonder how valid those > prices are. How can we know? I believe one scrapper told me that for a > 6 > foot rack with a 21MX cpu and a small QIC tape drive and small HPIB > drive > (each of the later units is 19 inches wide, about 4 inches tall, 15 > inches > deep, and weighs about 15 pounds so we're not talking lots of > metal)... that > he could get $140 for the scrap metal from it. Is this about right or > off-base? The scrapper I keep robbing... err, buying computers from... sets scrap value for gear <20 years old at $0.20/lb. Older than that, if there's a lot of PCB, the gold content is higher and he's much more proud of it. Thirty or forty cents a pound. Some of the stuff I've bought from him: Altos 580 - $5 Sun2-170 - $43 3 MV3100-80 - $15 1 VS4000/60 w/ 72MB - $4 2 PDP-11/93 with SCSI - $180 Of course, nowadays if it says d|i|g|i|t|a|l he thinks it's _solid_ gold. :( And Bear, if you're reading, I can't find your number. Shoot me a note off-list. Doc From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 26 10:03:46 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040126042511.04d61178@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: > At 02:01 AM 1/26/2004, you wrote: > > >It won't smoke your device if the current is exactly the same. > > Can I have some of what you have been smoking? > > I think he's been huffing the magic smoke from cooked voltage regulators... g. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jan 26 09:56:41 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040126155641.GB17771@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 03:06:03PM -0000, Witchy wrote: > Can I use the RQDX3 in there instead? You can use an RQDX3, but not with _that_ RD52 (since it's been LLFed for an RQDX1). If you have an RD-drive that's been LLFed on a MicroVAX 2000 or a uVAX-II (w/RQDX3) with the field service diagnostics, _that_ will work with your RQDX3 on your uVAX-I. I save ST225s and ST251s from junked PCs for just that purpose. An ST251 won't be as reliable (or as fast) as your RD52 originally was, but they are more plentiful. 40MB is plenty to hold MicroVMS. My running uVAX-I has an RD51 on it (and uVMS 4.0 IIRC). It was the box we did final testing on Qbus COMBOARDs - it's the OS and *maybe* as much as 1.0MB of our software. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jan-2004 15:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -18.6 F (-28.1 C) Windchill -35.1 F (-37.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.3 kts Grid 062 Barometer 686.7 mb (10373 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 10:17:03 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. References: <40033e404a04.404a0440033e@optonline.net> Message-ID: <00af01c3e427$d598e350$0500fea9@game> http://www.allelectronics.com/pdf/59.pdf The pdf talks about how ac and dc wall transformers are not regulated unless otherwise stated. They provide a specific voltage at a specific load. A 12V 500ma wall transformer may read 20 volts with no load or 9 volts with a 600ma load. So matching up your load at the required voltage is what you need to do. Exactly who expects a $3 part to be regulated? From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 10:41:14 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: deciphering memory chips Message-ID: <00fc01c3e42b$36cb0fb0$0500fea9@game> What's a good online resource to figure out what type of memory chips you have? I have an old matrox Ultima + VLB card that has 2mb vram (consisting of 8 x KM428C25J-6 chips) and has 8 more sockets for 2mb more memory (the type where the chip pins are curled around and point to the bottom of the chip) Are these common chips? Most video cards I have seen either use dram or edo ram. From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jan 26 11:03:33 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache Schematics Message-ID: JC, I've got 'em if you haven't already gotten them from someone else. Let me know. Best, Patrick -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of J.C. Wren Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:52 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Otrona Attache Schematics Does anyone have scans of the schematics for the Attache, particularly as it relates to the keyboard? I know I paper schematics in my warehouse, somewhere, but I can't seem to turn them up. --jc From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 26 11:09:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update References: Message-ID: <000c01c3e42f$26d82080$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > it still gets the same error and stops at 3 with an error > on the console of '00000000 03' I thought that stopping at 03 just meant that it wanted you to tell it the boot device manually. John A. From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Jan 26 11:19:29 2004 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Just last week I fried a 2.4GHz wireless phone by applying a power >supply that had exactly the rated voltge but was 1A instead of the >required 800mA. I smelled smoke not long after plugging it in. All >this in a unit that worked properly with the right PSU just 2 weeks >before... the original PSU being lost. Need I say any more? Current >is everything... voltage is nothing. Perhaps people need a DMM so they can check polarity, or maybe get glasses to read the markings? OMG, this is the funniest thread I've read in a while. True story: My sister last year was trying to plug in a computer modem after moving some things around. I think the input is 9V DC, well she grabbed the cord from the HP inkjet that happened to be the same size, but pumps out *24V*! All of a sudden we hear screaming and she comes running down the stairs screaming "THE MODEM IS SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Now THAT is funny. Don't ask me how, but she didn't fry the modem(not totally anyhow, it still powers up OK). -- ------------ John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net ------------ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:05:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Fw: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <010a01c3e3de$db0727f0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, William Maddox wrote: > At the time of the last e-mail I exchanged with David, he was hoping that a > restoration was possible. He wasn't sure of the exact extent of the damage, > but seemed to think that the power supply, the front panel glass, and the > plexiglass covers had taken the worst of of it. Since the minimum > restoration effort would require one-off fabrication of the covers and panel > glass, this would not be cheap. Cheap, no. But the side panels I made for the PDP-8 replica I built only cost roughly $200 each in materials and labor. The front panel glass will be a challange, but I already have a very nice high resolution (600dpi) scan of it. I had the scan printed and then applied to foamcore for the replica, but a real panel would have to be somehow layed over acrylic to allow for the lamps to show through. This is how I wanted to do the front panel initially but at least Kinko's wasn't equipped to do something like that. > The process that Bob Armstrong used for > the SBC6120 front panel would produce a very nice replacement, though it be > plastic. Doing the work as an insurance settlement would probably require > that it be contracted to a professional who could provide a quotation. I'm your huckleberry :) > Honestly, I have no knowledge of anyone who works professionally on stuff > quite this old! There are apparently a few caches of flip-chips from that > era around, though getting a collector to part with some spares could be > expensive as well. In any case, that was David's thinking moreso than > reaching a cash-for-scrap settlement. The FlipChip handles can be manufactured in small quantities using the stuff you can buy at a plastics supply place without too much fuss. Imprinting the module number on the front is something I haven't researched though. You used to be able to find caches of FlipChip modules for sale on eBay (I've bought a few) but nowadays they come in spurts and sometimes get bid up to eBay levels. In any event, the selection is not very varied (usually the more common ones come up for sale, not the ones you need). What would need to be found is a large cache of unused or un-needed FlipChip modules from scrap hardware that can be spared. Otherwise, the boards can be repaired (they are quite simple) and the handles re-done. The power supply in the picture looks like it can be bent back into shape. I would wager that some resoldering will be in order (possibly even some parts replacement). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 26 12:06:11 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Water damaged computer books available Message-ID: <200401261806.KAA24285@clulw009.amd.com> Hi To save these, first freeze them to stop damage. Find some palce that does freeze drying. Dwight >From: "Boris Gimbarzevsky" > >Recently I had a flood in a storage room and a number of computer books >unfortunately got soaked. They are drying, but as some of them are >starting to grow rather colorfull fungi, and I've been told they have to >go. In the interests of maintaining domestic tranquility, the following >material is available to whoever wants to pay me to ship it to your address >(they will be dry when shipped): > PDP-8/L handbook > Laboratory computer handbook (on programming the PDP-12) > Complete copy of Inside MacIntosh manuals. > Megamax C manual for MacIntosh (I don't know where the disks are) > Byte Magazines from 1988 and thereabouts (when Byte was worth reading). > >If anyone is interested, contact me off list at: >borisg at unixg dot ubc dot ca and use the string "Aaardvark" in the >subject line to get past my spam filter. >These materials are going into the garbage in 4 weeks if there is no interest. > >Boris Gimbarzevsky > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 26 12:04:04 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD Message-ID: <200401261804.KAA24279@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Always wrap the item in some plastic wrap when bring it into a warmer environment. The condensation can do quite a bit of damage. You want it to come up to temperature before exposing it to the wetter warm air. Dwight >From: "Tom Jennings" > >One of the best things to do is also the easiest: move them inside and >leave them, untouched, in a dry place for 24 or more hours. > > > > >On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 13:32, David V. Corbin wrote: >> The largest problem will be condensation. If moisture accumulates, it fill >> mix with any contaminants to produce a nice conductive film which can >> destroy (short out) all of the electronics on power up. >> >> The second (and much easier to deal with) is mechanical tolerance issues. >> Things contract when they get cold and expand when warming up (we all know >> this). If the devices are turned on (especially older items) the effects can >> be significant enough that the mechanics will be out of tolerance and bind >> and possible bend or break. This is easily cured by NOT turning them on >> until they have completely reached room temperature. >> >> As I said, the moisture problem is much more severe. If the items are packed >> in SEALED packaged with a decent amount of Sodium Silicate (or other drying >> agent) this should not be much of a problem. But (unfortunatley) we usually >> dont pay this much attention when packing "average" gear for storage. >> >> One technique I have used successfully is to (at least partially) >> disassemble the device [covers off at a minimum] while it is still extremely >> cold. After my finger thaw out, I will then bring it in to an enclosed area >> that has almost no humidity (hot air heating, dehumidifier, chemical water >> absorbers) and let it warm up in there. This will usually eliminate the >> formation of and condensate. >> >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> David. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike >> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:03 PM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Effect of COLD >> >> >> >> Is there any problem with data stored in a garage when the temperature drops >> to -20? I just found out where my moved a bunch of my machines (Cromemco, >> nabu, pets, Tandy's). >> >> Any precautions to take when moving them back indoors? >> >> Mike >> >> -- >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> Collector of vintage computers >> http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:07:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <011201c3e3e0$065159c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, William Maddox wrote: > Why do people value the Straight-8 so much when the 8/E was the pinnacle > of the family in terms of the kind of system it would support? Because it looks MUCH prettier (look at all those Flip Chip modules; it looks just like a "Giant Brain"), and it was the first. Plus it's much rarer than the 8/e. > Certainly, if you just want to run an 8, you'd be best advised to avoid > the Straight 8. Sure, but for cool factor, the straight-8 wins hands down. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:13:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 08:58:10PM -0800, Jim Davis wrote: > > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > > equipment? > > When I asked Sellam about one that went for $1700 a couple of years ago, > he thought that was a fair price. That was a couple of years ago ;) Over the years, I've noticed (and as would be expected or at least hoped) that collectors, as we are, have refined our tastes and are valuing higher the computers that deserve to be valued higher, also as a function of time passed. So earlier minis like the PDP-8 (of all models, but especially the earlier or rarer ones) are steadily increasing in value. $3,000 for a very nice 8/s (as was the one that sold on eBay a short while back) is a reasonable price. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:15:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040126084459.GF30246@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 10:02:08PM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Try at least 3.5 times that as a starting value and you're getting close > > ;) > > I have two with two DF-32 platters each... > > As I said, a $25,000 rider is not enough. Either way I would definitely document them if I were you. Photos, inventory list, supporting evidence, etc. I'll be happy to provide you with some of the latter if you need it ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:17:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, O. Sharp wrote: > > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > > equipment? > > If that's the auction I remember from about six months ago, that 8/S was > an anomaly - it didn't have any peripherals attached, but it was well > kept up, and it was listed as having... ...serial number 0. That's right, and low serial numbers always add to the value. Why? Well, there could be many reasons (symbolic, technical, etc.) The Computer History Museum will not take common machines unless they are low serial number (i.e. less than 10). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Jan 26 12:19:31 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Want to trade: WD ESDI board for Adaptec MFM Message-ID: <200401261019310212.01F54F92@192.168.42.129> I have a Western Digital WD1007A 10MHz ESDI disk controller that I'd like to trade for an Adaptec ACB-2370 MFM controller. The thing came out of a working system, so I have no reason to believe it's anything other than usable. Anyone help on this? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:19:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <4014E507.701@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Jim Davis wrote: > Anybody have an estimate on the worth of a Symbolics 1200 XL with a > color frame buffer and mono tube? My unemployment runs out in a week, > and although I have an interview with general software in Seattle, I'm > going to need some money. Probably only enough for a month's expenses (as long as you don't live in California that is ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 12:22:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:19 AM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote: >>Just last week I fried a 2.4GHz wireless phone by applying a power >>supply that had exactly the rated voltge but was 1A instead of the >>required 800mA. I smelled smoke not long after plugging it in. All >>this in a unit that worked properly with the right PSU just 2 weeks >>before... the original PSU being lost. Need I say any more? Current >>is everything... voltage is nothing. Wrong! Voltage (V) determines current flow (I). Ohm's Law I = V/R. The reason that your phone smoked was the it's design relied on the internal impedence (a fancy word for resistance(R) ) to limit the current. When you plugged in a different supply that had a lower impedence it allowed more current to flow even though the voltage was the same. FWIW I did the same thing once when I tried to used a small 6 volt lead acid battery to power a camera flash that was designed to run off of four 1 1/2 volt AA batteries. The voltage was the same but the impedence was lower, that made the current much higher and the result was to let all the magic smoke out of the flash. If you want to get a good idea of what I'm talking about, go short out 9V transistor radio battery. The shorting wirre and battery probably won't even get warm. Then go try it with a 6 or 12 volt lead acid battery. But be warned, use gloves and wear googles! Joe > >Perhaps people need a DMM so they can check polarity, or maybe get >glasses to read the markings? >OMG, this is the funniest thread I've read in a while. > >True story: My sister last year was trying to plug in a computer >modem after moving some things around. I think the input is 9V DC, >well she grabbed the cord from the HP inkjet that happened to be the >same size, but pumps out *24V*! All of a sudden we hear screaming and >she comes running down the stairs screaming "THE MODEM IS >SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Now THAT is funny. Don't ask me how, but >she didn't fry the modem(not totally anyhow, it still powers up OK). > >-- > > >------------ >John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com >DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net >------------ > From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Jan 26 12:24:54 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <011c01c3e3e1$23760630$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040126124326.02617490@pop3.norton.antivirus> Upon the date 01:49 AM 1/26/04 -0800, Lyos Norezel said something like: >William Maddox wrote: >Huh? Did I miss something? We're talking about a power supply here, right? > > >Yes... > > >A power supply should provide the specified voltage. The power supply must >be rated at *at least* the current (Amps) or power (Watts) drawn by the >load, but an excess here does not hurt. Some power supplies require a >minimum load in order to operate correctly, that is not likely to be an >issue here. You will fry a power supply if you pull too much current from >it. You cannot *provide* too much current to the load -- it draws what it >wants to. You *can* provide too much voltage. >--Bill Exactly. >Wrong... I'll give you an example which ANYONE and EVERYONE working with >electricity should know, and if they don't they SHOULD NOT work on >anything even remotely related to electricity until they do know it. > >You know that it's the current of the electricity is what will kill you >right? You could have thousands of volts running through your body and >still live. How is this possible, you might ask? Well if the the current >(power) is below .5 mA then it should not cause a problem. Ask any >electricity teacher "At what point will electricity kill a human being?" >and their response will be something along the lines of "Anything at or >above .5 mA will (more than likely) kill a human being." Of course there >have been cases that said otherwise but this is the majority case. Same >thing applies to delicate electronics... apply more amps then it's rated >to handle and it's fried. Just last week I fried a 2.4GHz wireless phone >by applying a power supply that had exactly the rated voltge but was 1A >instead of the required 800mA. I smelled smoke not long after plugging it >in. All this in a unit that worked properly with the right PSU just 2 >weeks before... the original PSU being lost. > Need I sa! > y any > more? No! Please!! :-/ >Current is everything... voltage is nothing. > >Lyos Gemini Norezel > >BTW- goto the nearest high school and ask the electricity teacher about >this... see what he say... then compare it to what I said. Remarkably >like, eh? LOL I respectfully request you yourself visit your local electrical technology teacher or an electrical engineer you know well and present your interpretation of the effects of current supplied by a power supply upon a device which you had presented to us in this thread. Stand back and watch how s/he responds. Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:27:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Bandwidth on the island? (was Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8?) In-Reply-To: <20040126130458.GA15945@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm off to McMurdo for a week of "R&R" (so they call it). Sigh... back > down to sea level... Classically speaking, I just grabbed a copy of > xelf - a multi-1802 emulator that was announced on the cosmacelf Yahoo > group this week. Looks pretty nice. Say, what sort of bandwidth (internet-wise) do you guys get down there now? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:28:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Jay West wrote: > You're right William. We as collectors need to pony up and be willing to pay > the price over scrap. However, I have delt with a couple scrappers who tell > me "Oh, I can get $XXX for that in scrap" and I wonder how valid those > prices are. How can we know? I believe one scrapper told me that for a 6 > foot rack with a 21MX cpu and a small QIC tape drive and small HPIB drive > (each of the later units is 19 inches wide, about 4 inches tall, 15 inches > deep, and weighs about 15 pounds so we're not talking lots of metal)... that > he could get $140 for the scrap metal from it. Is this about right or > off-base? I used to have an easy rule of thumb for determining scrap value. It was something like $.14/pound for typical old computers, but <$.20/pound for HP gear (more gold). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:34:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <20040126072907.L59331@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > As far as I know, Thinkertoys never made a clamshell portable. Morrow > > made a clamshell-like portable called the Pivot. > > Howard Fullmer designed several other portables for Morrow, > before the Pivot. I don't think any went into production. The only other I know of is the MD3 Portable, which has a really interesting wide-aspect CRT and the obligatory two built-in 5.25" floppies. Basically an Osborne but more interesting looking. > Neither Howard nor George are available for questioning. :-( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 12:35:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Drying out. Re: Water damaged computer books available In-Reply-To: <200401261806.KAA24285@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126133555.007fc640@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:06 AM 1/26/04 -0800, Dwight wrote: >Hi > To save these, first freeze them to stop damage. >Find some palce that does freeze drying. Hmmm. I'll bet you could send them to Ethan and all he's have to do is set them outside! Has anyone ever tried to make their own freeze drier using something like a pressure cooker and vacuum pump? I've been thinking about it but never tried it. FWIW I've had good look recovering wet books and such by opening EVERY page and sprinking them liberally with baking soda. (I use a large salt shaker.) If possible I leave them in a warm spot with a fan blowing on them. I leave them a few days and then shake it out. If it's still damp I repeat until it's bone dry. The baking soda absorbs moisture and helps prevent mold and mildew and also de-oderize the book. It also spreads the pages apart and helps prevent them from sticking together. The trick is that you have to do it before the pages start to dry out and stick together. This is where freezing comes in, if you have more books than you can handle, freeze them till you can get around to drying them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 12:38:51 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Effect of COLD In-Reply-To: <200401261804.KAA24279@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126133851.00802870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think it also helps if you can open it up so that the air can circulate freeely and if you use a fan to blow the air around. I think it's best if you warm it up rapidly in order to minimize any condensation. joe At 10:04 AM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > Always wrap the item in some plastic wrap when bring >it into a warmer environment. The condensation can do >quite a bit of damage. You want it to come up to temperature >before exposing it to the wetter warm air. >Dwight > > >>From: "Tom Jennings" >> >>One of the best things to do is also the easiest: move them inside and >>leave them, untouched, in a dry place for 24 or more hours. >> >> >> >> >>On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 13:32, David V. Corbin wrote: >>> The largest problem will be condensation. If moisture accumulates, it fill >>> mix with any contaminants to produce a nice conductive film which can >>> destroy (short out) all of the electronics on power up. >>> >>> The second (and much easier to deal with) is mechanical tolerance issues. >>> Things contract when they get cold and expand when warming up (we all know >>> this). If the devices are turned on (especially older items) the effects can >>> be significant enough that the mechanics will be out of tolerance and bind >>> and possible bend or break. This is easily cured by NOT turning them on >>> until they have completely reached room temperature. >>> >>> As I said, the moisture problem is much more severe. If the items are packed >>> in SEALED packaged with a decent amount of Sodium Silicate (or other drying >>> agent) this should not be much of a problem. But (unfortunatley) we usually >>> dont pay this much attention when packing "average" gear for storage. >>> >>> One technique I have used successfully is to (at least partially) >>> disassemble the device [covers off at a minimum] while it is still extremely >>> cold. After my finger thaw out, I will then bring it in to an enclosed area >>> that has almost no humidity (hot air heating, dehumidifier, chemical water >>> absorbers) and let it warm up in there. This will usually eliminate the >>> formation of and condensate. >>> >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> David. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike >>> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 4:03 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Effect of COLD >>> >>> >>> >>> Is there any problem with data stored in a garage when the temperature drops >>> to -20? I just found out where my moved a bunch of my machines (Cromemco, >>> nabu, pets, Tandy's). >>> >>> Any precautions to take when moving them back indoors? >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> -- >>> Ottawa, Canada >>> >>> Collector of vintage computers >>> http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 >> > > > From tosteve at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 12:38:58 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) In-Reply-To: <20040126083312.GB30246@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040126183858.82465.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Ethan, Are you really at the south pole? Can I come and visit? Steve. --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 05:46:54PM -0800, steven > wrote: > > My first attempt at the so-called killer poke on > my > > Commodore PET 2001-8 resulted in a 30% speed > increase! > > > > I used "POKE 59458,62" > > > > No smoke, either! > > That's because it's a 2001-8. The old, TTL video > PETs used that POKE > to, in effect, let BASIC "ignore" the vertical > blanking interrupt. In > essence, the ROM routing for PRINT checks the VBI > and only fiddles with > video memory when the beam is off. That's why > directly manipulating > screen memory in machine language was always faster. > > The problem came with _later_ models than yours. > IIRC, the effect of > the "killer poke" was to change the direction of a > bit in a PIA or VIA > from an input bit to an output bit. The consequence > of that is, with > one of the later models with a different video > circuit, a totem-pole > transistor arrangement was permanently engaged and > one of the transistors > was overdriven and smoked. > > -ethan > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather > at 26-Jan-2004 08:20 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.5 F (-28.6 C) > Windchill -45.5 F (-43.1 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 066 > Barometer 688.9 mb (10293. ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 12:43:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine Message-ID: I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes the drives on the primary controller. Weird. Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 13:18:24 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? References: Message-ID: <013c01c3e441$2b999b00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 08:58:10PM -0800, Jim Davis wrote: > > > $3000 for an "8/S"?!?!, you have to be kidding? Did it include a lot of > > > equipment? > > > > When I asked Sellam about one that went for $1700 a couple of years ago, > > he thought that was a fair price. > > That was a couple of years ago ;) > > Over the years, I've noticed (and as would be expected or at least hoped) > that collectors, as we are, have refined our tastes and are valuing higher > the computers that deserve to be valued higher, also as a function of time > passed. So earlier minis like the PDP-8 (of all models, but especially > the earlier or rarer ones) are steadily increasing in value. $3,000 for a > very nice 8/s (as was the one that sold on eBay a short while back) is a > reasonable price. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival So basically instead of going by supply and demand your saying that because an item means more to you today it should be worth a few times more then what it sold for a few years ago? I don't understand that logic. By saying something is more deserving and having more refined tastes over time just means an item is worth more to you for reasons other then market conditions. An apple I is worth what it is because of its rarity, significance in the industry, and because there are allot of loyal apple users who are collectors. If apple died in 1990 and its loyal user base switched to Linux the value of the apple I would drop quite a bit because demand would also drop. Demand for anything collectible changes with tastes, availability, financial standing of the collectors interested in the item, and condition. What an item deserves to have as a value just isn't factored in. From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 13:41:25 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: <20040125201419.C50098@newshell.lmi.net> References: <002501c3e2cd$db295d00$0300a8c0@look.ca> <1075088395.2588.4.camel@fiche> <20040125201419.C50098@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1075145337.1622.26.camel@dhcp-250200> On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 20:23, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > I AM NO EXPERT on this, but I'd like to point out that the meaning of > > "compatible" was far more slippery then than now. AFAIK the Phoenix BIOS > > was the first true compatible (eg. the number of incompatibilities was > > very, very small). > I agree that NOTHING was 100% compatible! > > But, I don't understand what your point is,... That 1982 claims of "compatible" are utterly different than the same claim today or even 1992. I don't mean nit-picky microscopic differences (a broad grey zone I admit :-) but will-it-run-95%-out-of-the-box-IBM PC software. Few did in 84. > The usual video for the Compaq portables was CGA (connected > with a mid-board connector to the internal B&W monitor) > IIRC, it responded pretty much identically to the IBM CGA, > in terms of INT10h, and to direct video writes to segment B800h. > In what ways was its video interface (except for the extra > internal connector) different? Unfortunately I cannot think of a hard example, I was going by my general recollection of incompatiblity in a number of areas, compaq vs. IBM. It is possible that my recollection is faulty, but we were in the compatibility business then so my incompatibility-recollections may be amplified by that. (It was also the beginning of the end of uPs for me; product development is sooooo dull to me.) Also, PSA's BIOS was *for sale*, allowing other manufacturers to get into the game, so they were sideway-competing with Compaq (we visited Compaq in TX some time in that period and saw some early laptop, I long forget the details). Seigmar Schmidt, a consultant who worked for PSA a lot, and whom I worked with, did a lot of good work for PSA, and was all around a very smart and pleasant person to work with. Random googles don't show as much on him as her deserves. From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 13:45:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 21:15, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the > wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost > never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u > before you fry your machine. > Lyos Gemini Norezel No offense meant, but you have it entirely backwards. Assuming that there isn't an explicit problem (eg. the object-to-be-powered has a short or will otherwise consume excess power) the VOLTAGE is all that matters, assuming that the amperage-capacity of the power supply is accurate. You can run the tiniest 12V-nominal appliance from the hugest car battery. What Doc did is perfectly reasonable. And even if the JetDirect develops a dead short inside, the new power cube is only 20% more capacity, hardly increasing the fire hazard (more than appliances already are :-) tomj > > Doc Shipley wrote: > > Funny coincidence, there. I just hacked a Sprint CAD-1000 AC adapter > onto a JetDirect Ex+ last night. The receptacle of the JD is odd, so I > had to pull the board and solder the adapter direct. Other than that, > it's the right voltage, and a little over-amped (1A vs the JD's rated > 800mA). From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 13:46:35 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:51 2005 Subject: Who was first? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075145653.1622.33.camel@dhcp-250200> On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 22:28, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > As far as I know, Thinkertoys never made a clamshell portable. Morrow > made a clamshell-like portable called the Pivot. Aarrgh!! YOU are most certainly correct. From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 13:51:45 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <4014DDCE.1030709@hotmail.com> References: <4014DDCE.1030709@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <1075145962.1620.36.camel@dhcp-250200> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 01:28, Jim Davis wrote: > I always thought that the straight-8 was the gold standard for > collectable 8's. I never considered > production quantities for the 8/S. I remember that it was derided by > most everybody in the > community as being a cheap little substitute for a real 8 when it came > out, Well, they were 'horrid little things' then, but if you wanted raw computing power today, you'd buy (or already have :-) a Pentium, right? I love serial architectures, they're wonderfully awful and elegant both. From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 13:59:22 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1075146419.1622.42.camel@dhcp-250200> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 05:56, Jay West wrote: > You're right William. We as collectors need to pony up and be willing to pay > the price over scrap. However, I have delt with a couple scrappers who tell > me "Oh, I can get $XXX for that in scrap" and I wonder how valid those > prices are. How can we know? I believe one scrapper told me that for a 6 > foot rack with a 21MX cpu and a small QIC tape drive and small HPIB drive > (each of the later units is 19 inches wide, about 4 inches tall, 15 inches > deep, and weighs about 15 pounds so we're not talking lots of metal)... that > he could get $140 for the scrap metal from it. Is this about right or > off-base? Methinks his value high, but scrap guys as horse traders make other surplus and junkyard people look like wimps, and most importantly, he knows that you don't know. THAT SAID! If I wanted a 21MX, and that plus a rack of goodies could be had for $200, hell I'd pay that and let the scrapper snicker about the fool who bought it while I happily took it home... :-) And you might give him a business card or something to call whenever he's got "stuff like this". You'll probably get a lot of false alarms (racks of telco punchdowns etc) but once in a while... tomj > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Donzelli" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Cc: "On-Topic Posts Only" > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:42 PM > Subject: Re: This just makes me really SICK > > > > > The point is that a lot old computer equipment is routinely scrapped for > gold, > > > as the only salvage value a lot of computers had was in the gold they > carried. > > > > Mostly, yes, but many contain enough aluminum and copper to make it > > wothwhile. Now that steel is up again, the frames are not so much of a > > liability. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jan 26 13:27:24 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401261950.OAA03443@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> Current is everything... voltage is nothing. > Wrong! Voltage (V) determines current flow (I). Well, not quite; voltage is one of the factors determining current. > Ohm's Law I = V/R. The reason that your phone smoked was the it's > design relied on the internal impedence (a fancy word for > resistance(R) ) to limit the current. Impedance is not just a fancy word for resistance, except possibly when you're working with pure DC. A more accurate way of putting this is that the design relied on the voltage sagging under load; speaking of the power supply's internal impedance amounts to modeling it as a perfect supply (one which sustains its output voltage under any load) in series with a resistance, or more generally impedance, which "explains" (more accurately, "describes") the voltage drop under load. This is of course not a perfect model, but it's good enough for many purposes - especially since many of the mechanisms that produce the effect are due to internal resistances. > When you plugged in a different supply that had a lower impedence it > allowed more current to flow even though the voltage was the same. This is, strictly speaking, nonsensical, though there is a grain of truth lurking in it. First, I should note that this discussion plays a bit fast and loose with terminology. Strictly speaking, what I'm saying here is true only when either the current flow is pure DC, with no AC component, or when the load is purely resistive, with no inductive or capacitive component. But for most purposes it's a close enough approximation to be workable. If the voltage *at the device*, *under load*, was the same, then there would be no difference. When you say "allowed more current to flow even though the voltage was the same", the truth there is more like "allowed more current to flow *under load* even though the voltage *without load* was the same". This is the "grain of truth" I referred to above. The reason I say it's nonsensical is that if your statement is taken as applying entirely to things under load, it simply won't work that way. > FWIW I did the same thing once when I tried to used a small 6 volt > lead acid battery to power a camera flash that was designed to run > off of four 1 1/2 volt AA batteries. The voltage was the same but > the impedence was lower, that made the current much higher and the > result was to let all the magic smoke out of the flash. Here again - the design was expecting the voltage to sag under load, "because of" (more accurately, "as can be described by") the internal impedance of the batteries. That is, the voltage was _not_ the same when it mattered - under full load - even though it may have been close enough to the same under no, or light, load. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 14:07:04 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <001601c3e417$a0d43b70$2201a8c0@finans> References: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <001601c3e417$a0d43b70$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <1075146882.1622.50.camel@dhcp-250200> > Of course I can only talk about Denmark, but the way I see it, he is as > filled with lies as a cow with crap. > Any item to be recycled, must be treated in certain ways. For cars, e.g., > various fluids, batteries, etc have to be removed, etc. The same for > fridges, where also the motors have to be removed. Why you fuzzy-headed Danes must be some sorta communist enveero-mentalists or sumptin! Why here in the US nothing holds back profit, and someone else's grandkids'll clean up the mess. While there are increasingly stringent requirements for some industries, for most there are mostly only faint requirements on toxic material disposal in the U.S. A surplus place I go to here in Calif. has poverty-wage people standing in puddles of mud and goo, chopping copper off transformers with bolt cutters and saws, sorting metals into bins to be shipped to Taiwan. I know the owner. This is common practice. You should see what most auto-wrecker yards do. It's unbelievable what goes on here sometimes. tomj From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 26 14:17:53 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <20040126155641.GB17771@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: 26 January 2004 15:57 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I update > > You can use an RQDX3, but not with _that_ RD52 (since it's been LLFed for > an RQDX1). If you have an RD-drive that's been LLFed on a MicroVAX 2000 > or a uVAX-II (w/RQDX3) with the field service diagnostics, _that_ will > work with your RQDX3 on your uVAX-I. Thanks Ethan, I should've phrased the question better 'cos it was the compatibility with the UV I I was wondering about. If needs be I'll just 'borrow' the disk from one of my UV2000s :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 26 14:19:19 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <000c01c3e42f$26d82080$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: 26 January 2004 17:09 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I update > > > > it still gets the same error and stops at 3 with an error > > on the console of '00000000 03' > > I thought that stopping at 03 just meant that it > wanted you to tell it the boot device manually. Aw, don't say that - I'll kick meself if it's just waiting for me to type 'b dua0'! It's that long since I've seen an MVII get to the dead sergeant prompt AND looked at the diag panel on the back! I have to go and try that *now* :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 26 14:18:00 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401575F8.3060707@atarimuseum.com> I guess if you shut off the onboard controllers, freeing up IRQ 14 and 15 it should work. C800 should still work/act the same way to run the MFM controller bios. Floppy is on IRQ 6 so no effect there. Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time >(about 10 years now) so I have some questions. > >I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM >controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI >slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the >proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. > >I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It >killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed >but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). > >I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture >forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC >I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the >IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard >drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes >the drives on the primary controller. Weird. > >Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. > >I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC >with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test >the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From oldcomp at cox.net Mon Jan 26 14:22:21 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <401576FD.6090707@cox.net> > reason that your phone smoked was the it's design relied on the internal > impedence (a fancy word for resistance(R) ) to limit the current. When you Close, but although both are measuered in Ohms, impedence includes another factor: Phase. Resistance is non reactive. That is, it does not change with the frequency of the source voltage. Impedence is a combination of resistance and reactance (capacitive and/or inductive), and along with phase, can change with the frequency of the applied voltage. -Bryan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 26 14:27:00 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? References: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <20040126111016.GA9085@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40157814.4070205@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > P.S. - I brought the SBC6120 with me to the Pole. It's sitting off to my > left. I plan to assemble my spare SBC6120 and two IOB6120s this winter. You'll get more heat with a real 8. -_- PS. A low power 2 watt tube audio amp for music makes a great heater for cold hands , and two watts of clean music is good for the soul. From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Jan 26 14:44:39 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401261544.39929.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 26 January 2004 13:43, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA > MFM controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and > PCI slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to > reserve the proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the > MFM controller. It partly depends on the boot rom on the MFM controller (I've had some that were unhappy in a 'modern PC', and also depends on if you can disable the onboard IDE and maybe floppy on the PC. > I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. > It killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not > physically killed but basically disabled them and the system couldn't > boot). That's because IDE and MFM hard drive controllers typically share the same I/O ports. You should be able to leave your secondary IDE enabled, but will almost definately have to disable your primary IDE controller. Also, if there's a floppy controller on the same ISA card, it'll conflict with the one on the motherboard, and you'll have to disable one of the two. > I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get > another PC with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an > old 386 to test the MFM controller on to make sure it is working > fine. I'd bet the 386 will be much happier with the MFM controller. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 26 14:32:53 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: dvcorbin@optonline.net "Voltage & Current.." (Jan 26, 9:14) References: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> Message-ID: <10401262032.ZM20906@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 9:14, dvcorbin@optonline.net wrote: > >Bwahahaha, I've written 10 replies, but canceled them all, because I can't > >teach a house > >plant calculus. You Win. Yeah, I thought about explaining why the paragraph around the idea that .5mA kills is drivel, and gave up. > Seriously the TOTAL lack of regulation on "WallWarts" is quite common. I am currently (preofessionally) developing a product which normally operates off of AC power (via a wallwart), but needs to remort low AC conditions and fall back to battery. > > The load on this device is VERY dynamic ranging from under 10mA to over 850mA depending on what it is doing. The voltage fluctuations out of the wall wart (which is rated as 11.8V @ 1A) will rise as high as 17V when under a minimal load. > > Since the device is intended to have a very low production cost, they really cut some regulation requirements on the board as well, since the components WILL tolerate this range of voltages. > > Unfortunately, the side effect is that the voltage variation based on load is significantly greater than the voltage variation based on fluctuations in the AC (eg during a brown out). This has required the development of software that is constantly monitoriing the "active" state of many of the devices to "calculate" the current load, and then going through a transform to estimate the RAW AC that is providing power to the wart. Well, there might be a way to deal with the problem. Most of the poor regulation is down to the following. Most small DC wall warts consist of a transformer feeding a bridge rectifier with a moderate electrolytic capacitor across it. Under low or zero load, the capacitor charges to the peak voltage. As you apply more and more load, you get more and more ripple, and the average voltage goes down (in fact, because there is resistance between the transformer and capacitor, so does the peak). However, you could analyse the ripple and work out what the input was doing. At moderate loads, the capacitor will charge rapidly to something near the peak voltage on each half-cycle, and discharge relatively slowly; at high loads, you'll get a more symmetric ripple. If you want to know in detail, you could sample it, but my guess is if you're just looking for brownouts all you'd need to do is compare the amount of ripple to the average voltage and apply some rule of thumb. Or compare the slope of the rise to the slope of the fall. Of course when the ripple goes away completely you've got no mains input at all :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 14:45:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Need something shipped from Boonton, NJ Message-ID: I need something to be crated and shipped from Boonton, New Jersey. I'd like to hire some willing (or not) person to get the materials needed from the local hardware store and crate the item up. I figure it'll take around two hours. I need it done ASAP. If you're interested, please contact me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 14:52:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <013c01c3e441$2b999b00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > So basically instead of going by supply and demand your saying that because > an item means more to you today it should be worth a few times more then > what it sold for a few years ago? Yes. As time goes on, statistics show that less of an item becomes available to the market. This could result from a car flying into a house at high speed and destroying an item, or the insatiable hunger of a scrapper's smelter. Also, historical value has to be taken into account when valuing something. As time goes on, our perspectives may shift and an item that was not as important before may take on new relevance. > I don't understand that logic. By saying something is more deserving and > having more refined tastes over time just means an item is worth more to you > for reasons other then market conditions. True, but if I make a compelling case for it and other people agree, then I've just altered the market. Your idea of the "market" might be too simplistic. > An apple I is worth what it is because of its rarity, significance in the > industry, and because there are allot of loyal apple users who are > collectors. If apple died in 1990 and its loyal user base switched to Linux > the value of the apple I would drop quite a bit because demand would also > drop. Demand for anything collectible changes with tastes, availability, > financial standing of the collectors interested in the item, and condition. See? You just validated my point. > What an item deserves to have as a value just isn't factored in. Yes it is. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jan 26 14:55:02 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Machines Available in the UK Message-ID: <000001c3e44e$b72604d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Found in alt.sys.pdp11: A few pdp-11s with SCSI adapters seem to be available in South Wales. I assume there may be some magnetic media and perhaps documentation to go with them. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Machines Available Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:17:52 +0000 From: apyule@apyule.demon.co.uk Reply-To: apyule@bRITcOMPsOC.org.uk Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 I am retiring in the near future and will be scrapping the following. PDP 11/44 with Emulex UC18 SCSI controller and discs, two Magnetic tape controllers and drives, Ethernet controller, two RL02 controller and drives, Terminal controllers. A number of spare boards. This machine is in working order. In fact I have been running it for a few hours a day recently to erase magnetic tapes and discs. PDP 11/73 with Emulex UC07 SCSI controller and disc, magnetic tape controller and Ethernet controller. This does not boot at the moment. I am not sure of the problem. PDP 11/23 (just processor and memory). This has not been powered up for a few years. MicroVax 2000 with extra disc drive and non working TK50 This machine is in working order. MicroVax II This machine was my partner's old machine. He retired three years ago and the machine has not been powered up since then. The above are all in the South Wales (UK) area near Cardiff. Items will need to be collected. I do not want any money for complete machines. If you are interested in having any of the above then please send me an email to the address given in the signature. Note that, due to the amount of spam I receive, I will not receive replies made to the demon address. Please respond before 2nd February. -- Tony Yule e-mail: apyule@bcs.org.uk God made the integers, man made the rest. (Leopold Kronecker) -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 15:02:56 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> Message-ID: <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 26, 2004, at 1:32 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: > What Doc did is perfectly reasonable. And even if the JetDirect > develops > a dead short inside, the new power cube is only 20% more capacity, > hardly increasing the fire hazard (more than appliances already are :-) Thank you all, and if anybody cares, after 24 hours of fairly heavy use neither the adapter nor JetDirect proper are more than mildly warm to the touch. One very nice thing about the Sprint adapter is that it has an actual cord & plug between PSU and outlet. I guess that makes it a floor-wart. :) Half the jacks in my power strips are wasted because the wall-warts take up 3 slots. I think I'll solder cords on all of 'em. Doc From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 26 15:11:26 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <000c01c3e42f$26d82080$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: 26 January 2004 17:09 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I update > > > > it still gets the same error and stops at 3 with an error > > on the console of '00000000 03' > > I thought that stopping at 03 just meant that it > wanted you to tell it the boot device manually. *embarassed* :) Well, sort of. If I type 'b' (single char commands only) it tries to boot but gives up saying 'none of the bootable devices contain a program image'. The activity LED on the RD52 (DUA0?) stays on and I can't get any signs of life out of the RX50 (DUA1/DUA2?) so fingers are now pointing at the RQDX1 being uphappy, so tomorrow I'll take the drive out of my 'parts' UV2000 (that's what it says on the label!) and pair it up with the spare RQDX3 I found in my cards storage. If that fails I'll dismantle the uPDP again and use the RQDX3 out of that. Should have another RD54 floating round too. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 26 15:26:37 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <001601c3e417$a0d43b70$2201a8c0@finans> <1075146882.1622.50.camel@dhcp-250200> Message-ID: <4015860D.E29A7C7F@rain.org> Yes, it is unbelieveable. The horror stories I've heard and personally been involved with indicate that facts have little to do with what actually happens. For example, a friend had an environmental person come into where he worked and asked if anyone wanted to make a complaint about a neighboring business as he was in a bad mood and wanted to nail someone. Or the situation where a PC shop was closed down because of a neighboring fire. Or people I've talked to who *used* to work for government environmental agencies about what actually goes on. The emotional response to many things are rather indicative that our education system is a failure, preferring to promote actions by emotions rather than backed up by facts. I got out of the business before I killed someone; I am rather intolerant of stupidity (not pointing at this list, but rather the actions done in the name of "protecting" the environment.) A saying I happen to like is there would be no such thing as the Environmental Movement t'were it not for scientific illiteracy. If the goal were *really* to clean up pollution, then we would not be dealing with countries whose idea of waste disposal is to dump it in the river. Tom Jennings wrote: > > > Of course I can only talk about Denmark, but the way I see it, he is as > > filled with lies as a cow with crap. > > Any item to be recycled, must be treated in certain ways. For cars, e.g., > > various fluids, batteries, etc have to be removed, etc. The same for > > fridges, where also the motors have to be removed. > > Why you fuzzy-headed Danes must be some sorta communist > enveero-mentalists or sumptin! Why here in the US nothing holds back > profit, and someone else's grandkids'll clean up the mess. > > While there are increasingly stringent requirements for some industries, > for most there are mostly only faint requirements on toxic material > disposal in the U.S. A surplus place I go to here in Calif. has > poverty-wage people standing in puddles of mud and goo, chopping copper > off transformers with bolt cutters and saws, sorting metals into bins to > be shipped to Taiwan. I know the owner. This is common practice. You > should see what most auto-wrecker yards do. It's unbelievable what goes > on here sometimes. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 15:34:28 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine References: Message-ID: <017601c3e454$2d7453d0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine > > I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time > (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. > > I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM > controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI > slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the > proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. > > I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It > killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed > but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). > > I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture > forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC > I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the > IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard > drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes > the drives on the primary controller. Weird. > > Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. > > I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC > with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test > the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Anything that gets plugged into the ISA bus (that isn't PnP) has a hard wired IRQ, DMA, and address space (some or all can be changed with jumpers depending on the vintage and device). If the MFM is using IRQ 14 or 15 then the primary or secondary PCI IDE controller will have a conflict and not work and wont boot. The PC architecture is pretty easy going so you wont damage anything doing this. Go inside your BIOS and disable the built in IDE controllers (if you cant change the IRQ on your MFM card). Next you can try going to bios screen where the floppy and HD data is shown (usually first menu) and manually type in the cylinder/heads/sectors data for the drive your using (will have to be set to "USER" unless your lucky enough that the bios tables has a setting for your exact drive in which case just select the drive that matches yours). Assuming everything is ok you can then boot the system to floppy and use dos to either format the drive for use or if the drive was already formatted (with the current controller) and bootable it will come alive. The last MFM drive I used was probably a 40mb drive on a 286 packard bell I had before IDE took over so its been over a decade since I used one. Generally devices on the PCI era motherboard can either be used or disabled, they rarely will allow you to change important settings for HD controllers (you have a choice of 2 irqs for serial ports and some changes for printer ports but the rest is set). The last promise caching HD controller made for the IDE PC bus (5030 model) came with a cable and ISA card that specifically grabbed IRQ 14 or 15 from the ISA bus if you couldn't redirect your BIOS to use the card instead of the built in IDE (a pain to setup). From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 26 15:40:28 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Video "sparkles" (was: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! In-Reply-To: <1075093185.4752.0.camel@ernest> References: <200401252138968.SM01024@bobdev> <1075093185.4752.0.camel@ernest> Message-ID: <20040126131159.R69296@newshell.lmi.net> > > A side effect is "sparkles" on the > > scren when things are displayed (because both the CPU and video system are > > referencing video memory at the same time) > Hot Damn! I like sparkles. In the mid 1980's, I wrote a TSR (XenoFont-A) to do screen capture of PC text mode video. Sybex used it for the illustrations for almost all of their text mode PC books. It loaded into RAM (TSR), and stayed out of the way of other programs. But, when a certain (configurable) key was pressed, it would copy the video into a RAM buffer, and write it to disk when DOS was stable enough, in order to print it later, using XenoFont-B. When used with CGA video, there would be a blast of "static" whenever the screen was savd. Sybex was very concerned that it might damage the video, etc. So,... I reassured them that the "sparkles" was: "just the flash when it takes the picture" -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Jan 26 15:07:08 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? References: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov><021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <20040126111016.GA9085@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <000a01c3e454$e6c28780$665d4ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? " I had cow-orkers over for a barbeque once, " Were they guests or the meal ? :>) Geoff. From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Jan 26 15:35:55 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3e454$e8123900$665d4ed5@geoff> I bet your phone was glad to be out of it , you must have terrified the poor thing over the years. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing........... :>) Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyos Norezel" Just last week I fried a 2.4GHz wireless phone by applying a power supply that had exactly the rated voltge but was 1A instead of the required 800mA. I smelled smoke not long after plugging it in. All this in a unit that worked properly with the right PSU just 2 weeks before... the original PSU being lost. Need I say any more? Current is everything... voltage is nothing. > > Lyos Gemini Norezel From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 15:50:10 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) References: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <401576FD.6090707@cox.net> Message-ID: <018f01c3e456$5f1073e0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Blackburn" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 3:22 PM Subject: Re: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) > > > reason that your phone smoked was the it's design relied on the internal > > impedence (a fancy word for resistance(R) ) to limit the current. When you > > Close, but although both are measuered in Ohms, impedence includes > another factor: Phase. Resistance is non reactive. That is, it does not > change with the frequency of the source voltage. Impedence is a > combination of resistance and reactance (capacitive and/or inductive), > and along with phase, can change with the frequency of the applied voltage. > > -Bryan > > Even resistive loads change a little from the second you apply power until the circuit has heated up to operating temperature. The metal wire used in a toaster has a different resistance cold then it does glowing cherry red burning your toast so amperage will vary a bit (maybe up to 15% depending on the metal wire used or more if silicon carbide is used). From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 15:51:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <1075146882.1622.50.camel@dhcp-250200> Message-ID: On 26 Jan 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > While there are increasingly stringent requirements for some industries, > for most there are mostly only faint requirements on toxic material > disposal in the U.S. A surplus place I go to here in Calif. has > poverty-wage people standing in puddles of mud and goo, chopping copper > off transformers with bolt cutters and saws, sorting metals into bins to > be shipped to Taiwan. I know the owner. This is common practice. You > should see what most auto-wrecker yards do. It's unbelievable what goes > on here sometimes. Sorry to sound like a left-leaning liberal bitch but exploitative people such as you describe need to be exposed and either reformed or put out of business. There are much more ethical and economic ways to recycle these materials than what is being described here. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Jan 26 09:57:19 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <0A9F837E-5014-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <0A9F837E-5014-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1075131912.15101.37.camel@pluto> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 15:26, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Jan 25, 2004, at 11:15 PM, Lyos Norezel wrote: > > > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the > > wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost > > never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u > > before you fry your machine. > > ???? > > That's opposite everything I was ever taught. As long as the voltage > and DC polarity are correct, and the power supply provides at least > enough amperage for the device, the device itself determines the amount > of power it draws. The big worry is that a slightly under-amped PSU can > toast itself trying to keep up. > > > Doc Yup. Many years of running things of bench PSUs have taught me this. That's not to say I've never fried stuff, but usually only when I've inadvertently wound it up to +/-30v and really cooked stuff. Current has never been a problem (although running my fully loaded Acorn Atom did make the bench PSU heat up quite a bit). Gordon. From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Jan 26 10:08:05 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <40033e404a04.404a0440033e@optonline.net> References: <40033e404a04.404a0440033e@optonline.net> Message-ID: <40153B65.5030704@hotmail.com> dvcorbin@optonline.net wrote: >Jim, > >Just to clarify, we are NOT trying to regulate the voltage. Just moniotor if the House AC is stable and within "tolerance". If brown outs are common it needs to be logged (even though it does NOT effect the performance of the device). > >Also a low A/C voltage may not be providing enough to charge the backup battery. > >Therefore none of this is part of the control circuitry, but rather more of a crude A/C voltmeter. > >In terms of "how cheap", the company eliminated even low cost items such items as "berg header" type jumpers (less than 1 penny apiece!). > >Also by the time it was realized (I am a software consultant to the client on this project and was NOT responsible for the hardware design) that this was an issue, the boards had already been layed-out (and about 150 of them assembled EVEN before a single line of software was written) for the 1000 piece pre-production run. > > >David > > > > Sorry, I feel your pain, But it still made me LOL ;-) I thought you were trying to keep the system up under really saggy voltages and pull down high voltage by turning on all the lights and heaters.. Cheers, Jim Davis. From kth at srv.net Mon Jan 26 15:28:09 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <10401262032.ZM20906@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> <10401262032.ZM20906@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <40158669.2060405@srv.net> Pete Turnbull wrote: >Well, there might be a way to deal with the problem. Most of the poor >regulation is down to the following. Most small DC wall warts consist >of a transformer feeding a bridge rectifier with a moderate >electrolytic capacitor across it. Under low or zero load, the >capacitor charges to the peak voltage. As you apply more and more >load, you get more and more ripple, and the average voltage goes down >(in fact, because there is resistance between the transformer and >capacitor, so does the peak). However, you could analyse the ripple >and work out what the input was doing. At moderate loads, the >capacitor will charge rapidly to something near the peak voltage on >each half-cycle, and discharge relatively slowly; at high loads, you'll >get a more symmetric ripple. If you want to know in detail, you could >sample it, but my guess is if you're just looking for brownouts all >you'd need to do is compare the amount of ripple to the average voltage >and apply some rule of thumb. Or compare the slope of the rise to the >slope of the fall. Of course when the ripple goes away completely >you've got no mains input at all :-) > > I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. Some wall-worts are seriously badly designed, but usually if the voltage rating is right and you are not using a excessively overrated supply (1kA supply used to power a 600ma load?) it's usually does not cause the magic-smoke to escape. From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Jan 26 16:30:28 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <10401262032.ZM20906@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040126171447.00bb93c0@mail.earthlink.net> I am not sure who started this thread, but why not talk about a solution rather than what is wrong with the world of wall warts. If the end in site is too "know" when the AC input goes below a certain threshold, then you need to know two things to make a determination of "low AC line" when utilizing a wall wart as your power source and "line voltage sensor". You need to know the peak voltage you are getting from the wall wart under load conditions and you also need to know the load the wall wart is experiencing at the moment. The peak voltage can be gotten "cheaply" by using a diode off the positive side to a capacitor that has a resistor in parallel with it to ground. The cap will "charge" to the peak level regardless of ripple, etc. The resistor is chosen to bleed off the cap's charge fast enough for your sensing requirements, but slow enough not to "see" the ripple from the wall wart. The load current can be gotten from a "small" series resistor (0.2-1.0 ohms) in line with the positive side of the wall wart. 5ma to 850ma was mentioned in the discussions here. Don't worry about small currents back rather be interested in higher currents will cause the wall wart voltage to degrade. The differential voltage on the resistor will give the load that is being "presented" to the wall wart. Depending on the wall wart, the "brown out" curve can be experimentally determined with a variac on the AC side feeding the wall wart. The software can then look for terminal points on the load and the peak voltage to determine when to cut over to battery supply. best regards, Steve Thatcher From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 16:19:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <401576FD.6090707@cox.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126171940.008b2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:22 PM 1/26/04 -0700, you wrote: > >> reason that your phone smoked was the it's design relied on the internal >> impedence (a fancy word for resistance(R) ) to limit the current. When you > >Close, but although both are measuered in Ohms, impedence includes >another factor: Phase. Resistance is non reactive. That is, it does not >change with the frequency of the source voltage. Impedence is a >combination of resistance and reactance (capacitive and/or inductive), >and along with phase, can change with the frequency of the applied voltage. > I take exception with your reply! While technically true, in this case we were clearly talking about a battery powered telephone therefore we're talking about pure DC with no AC. Therefore phase, frequency and impedence are irrelevent. Throwing in the talk of impedence just to show off is only confusing the issue. The orginal poster that thought voltage didn't matter clearly doesn't clearly understand electricity and I didn't won't to confuse him further by introducing AC and it's effects. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 16:28:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <200401261950.OAA03443@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126172803.008b3af0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See my reply to Bryan. While you are technically correct, I doubt the original poster understood a word of what you said. I tried to keep the explanation at a level that the original poster would understand. In this case we were talking about a battery (in other words "DC") powered device. There was no reason to introduce reactance, inductance, impedence, phase, frequency or any other AC related topic to this thread. You are only somewhat correct about battery voltage. I was referring to open circuit voltage which is how batteries are usually measured since "under load voltage" is obviously dependent on the load. Joe At 02:27 PM 1/26/04 -0500, der Mouse wrote: >>>> Current is everything... voltage is nothing. >> Wrong! Voltage (V) determines current flow (I). > >Well, not quite; voltage is one of the factors determining current. > >> Ohm's Law I = V/R. The reason that your phone smoked was the it's >> design relied on the internal impedence (a fancy word for >> resistance(R) ) to limit the current. > >Impedance is not just a fancy word for resistance, except possibly when >you're working with pure DC. A more accurate way of putting this is >that the design relied on the voltage sagging under load; speaking of >the power supply's internal impedance amounts to modeling it as a >perfect supply (one which sustains its output voltage under any load) >in series with a resistance, or more generally impedance, which >"explains" (more accurately, "describes") the voltage drop under load. >This is of course not a perfect model, but it's good enough for many >purposes - especially since many of the mechanisms that produce the >effect are due to internal resistances. > >> When you plugged in a different supply that had a lower impedence it >> allowed more current to flow even though the voltage was the same. > >This is, strictly speaking, nonsensical, though there is a grain of >truth lurking in it. > >First, I should note that this discussion plays a bit fast and loose >with terminology. Strictly speaking, what I'm saying here is true only >when either the current flow is pure DC, with no AC component, or when >the load is purely resistive, with no inductive or capacitive >component. But for most purposes it's a close enough approximation to >be workable. > >If the voltage *at the device*, *under load*, was the same, then there >would be no difference. When you say "allowed more current to flow >even though the voltage was the same", the truth there is more like >"allowed more current to flow *under load* even though the voltage >*without load* was the same". This is the "grain of truth" I referred >to above. The reason I say it's nonsensical is that if your statement >is taken as applying entirely to things under load, it simply won't >work that way. > >> FWIW I did the same thing once when I tried to used a small 6 volt >> lead acid battery to power a camera flash that was designed to run >> off of four 1 1/2 volt AA batteries. The voltage was the same but >> the impedence was lower, that made the current much higher and the >> result was to let all the magic smoke out of the flash. > >Here again - the design was expecting the voltage to sag under load, >"because of" (more accurately, "as can be described by") the internal >impedance of the batteries. That is, the voltage was _not_ the same >when it mattered - under full load - even though it may have been close >enough to the same under no, or light, load. > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 16:34:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126173424.008b9600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:43 AM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote: > >I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time >(about 10 years now) so I have some questions. > >I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM >controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI >slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the >proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. > >I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It >killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed >but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). I wonder. If the new systems aren't designed with the plug-in controllers in mind is the usual memory address for the controller still available? Perhaps the new bigger motherboard BIOS is using the addresses that the controller expects to have available. Also. Have you tried slowing down the clock on the ISA slots? A lot of the newer (10 years?) machines run the slots at faster than the old offical rate of 8 MHz. But you can vary the frequency in many (all?) of them using the BIOS setup. Joe From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 16:36:29 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <01c301c3e45c$d7a450a0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:02 PM Subject: Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) > On Jan 26, 2004, at 1:32 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: > > What Doc did is perfectly reasonable. And even if the JetDirect > > develops > > a dead short inside, the new power cube is only 20% more capacity, > > hardly increasing the fire hazard (more than appliances already are :-) > > Thank you all, and if anybody cares, after 24 hours of fairly heavy > use neither the adapter nor JetDirect proper are more than mildly warm > to the touch. > > One very nice thing about the Sprint adapter is that it has an actual > cord & plug between PSU and outlet. I guess that makes it a > floor-wart. :) Half the jacks in my power strips are wasted because > the wall-warts take up 3 slots. I think I'll solder cords on all of > 'em. > > > Doc > > Easier just to buy the newer power strips that have 2 rows of jacks, second row spaced and directed for wallwarts. Wallmarts has then fairly cheap. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 26 16:46:21 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: deciphering memory chips In-Reply-To: "Teo Zenios" "deciphering memory chips" (Jan 26, 11:41) References: <00fc01c3e42b$36cb0fb0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <10401262246.ZM21025@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 11:41, Teo Zenios wrote: > I have an old matrox Ultima + VLB card that has 2mb vram (consisting of 8 x KM428C25J-6 chips) and has 8 more sockets for 2mb more memory (the type where the chip pins are curled around and point to the bottom of the chip) If you really meant KM428C256 rather than KM428C25, I've found an SGI document that says a certain controller was implemented with the following VRAMs, so presumably they're equivalents or nearly so: Toshiba TC528257 Mitsubishi M5M482256 Hitachi HM538253 Micron MT42C8255 Fujitsu MB8128xx NEC uPD482234 TI TMX55160 Vitelec V53C851 Samsung KM428C256 -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 26 16:38:25 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: deciphering memory chips In-Reply-To: "Teo Zenios" "deciphering memory chips" (Jan 26, 11:41) References: <00fc01c3e42b$36cb0fb0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <10401262238.ZM21020@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 11:41, Teo Zenios wrote: > What's a good online resource to figure out what type of memory chips you have? Usually, Google. I didn't find any hits for KM428C25J-6 or KM428C25J or KM428C25 or ... but I did find some for KM428C256 (which makes more sense, actually). The other thing I use is a fairly large collection of data books. Never discard data books :-) And I just happen to have a Samsung 1994 Product Guide that lists the KM428C256. Being only a Product Guide, it doesn't give details, but it says its a 2Mbit device organised as 258K x 8, and there are several speed variants as well as a V256, and C257/V257. KM is Samsung. 4 means DRAM, 42 means VRAM. 8 means 8 bits wide. C means 5V CMOS, V means 3.3V CMOS. 256 is the density and organisation, in this case 256K Page Mode. 257 means "E/F" mode (I can't think what that stands for, off the top of my head). J means SOJ (P is DIP, Z is ZIP, T is TSOP). The -6 means 60ns (-7, -8, -10 are also common). > I have an old matrox Ultima + VLB card that has 2mb vram (consisting > of 8 x KM428C25J-6 chips) and has 8 more sockets for 2mb more memory As you probably know, VRAM is dual-ported RAM, so that the graphics display hardware can read it without interfering with writes from the graphics engine or CPU. This particular type is used in some old SGI video systems. > (the type where the chip pins are curled around and point to the > bottom of the chip) You mean like a PLCC but with pins on only two sides, sort of like a DIL chip? It's called SOJ, or more specifically, xx-SOJ-y00, where xx is the number of pins and y00 is the spacing between the two rows in 1000ths of an inch (so 300 means 0.3"). > Are these common chips? Most video cards I have seen either use dram or edo ram. I don't think so. But I'm not an expert on video cards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jan 26 16:55:55 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <40153B65.5030704@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >>Sorry, I feel your pain, But it still made me LOL ;-) >>I thought you were trying to keep the system up under really saggy >>voltages and pull down high voltage by turning on all the lights and >>>heaters.. Jim, PLEASE DONT GIVE MANAGEMENT ANY IDEAS!!!! From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jan 26 17:33:42 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update Message-ID: <040126183342.28231@splab.cas.neu.edu> I could have sworn that about a month ago I posted the meaning of the codes for a MV I and that it was waiting for a boot command... Joe Heck From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 26 17:01:42 2004 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: deciphering memory chips In-Reply-To: <00fc01c3e42b$36cb0fb0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <200401262301.RAA11056@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I came across this link last week: http://www.delec.com/guide/memory/ -Lawrence LeMay > What's a good online resource to figure out what type of memory chips you have? > > I have an old matrox Ultima + VLB card that has 2mb vram (consisting of 8 x KM428C25J-6 chips) and has 8 more sockets for 2mb more memory (the type where the chip pins are curled around and point to the bottom of the chip) > > Are these common chips? Most video cards I have seen either use dram or edo ram. > From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jan 26 17:05:27 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c3e460$e3882690$5b01a8c0@athlon> > *embarassed* :) > > Well, sort of. If I type 'b' (single char commands only) it > tries to boot but gives up saying 'none of the bootable > devices contain a program image'. The activity LED on the > RD52 (DUA0?) stays on and I can't get any signs of life out I don't have any experience of the uVAX I, but the uVAX II has no NVRAM and so it goes through a "sniffer boot" where it looks for a bootable device in a particular order. I expect that the uVAX I does something similar. I would exepct that you can type B DUA0 and it will have a go (or complain that it doesn't understand you). Some of the machines (like the VAX 8200) implemented the console in microcode and so the commands were extremely limited (as was the error reporting, which you'll know if you ever used a VAX 8200!). However, the uVAX II implemented the console in VAX macrocode (i.e. ordinary VAX instructions) and I would have thought the uVAX I would have done the same. Have a go with B DUA0 (and then DUA1,2,3) and see if you get any reaction whatsoever out of the disk or RX50. Another approach might be to remove the uVAX I CPU and memory and drop in a KA630 - or better yet a KA650/KA655. That way you could poke around on the Qbus and see if anything is visible, check for conflicts and try to boot. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 17:26:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Thank you all, and if anybody cares, after 24 hours of fairly heavy > use neither the adapter nor JetDirect proper are more than mildly warm > to the touch. I've got a JetDirect 300X sans power supply. It has a super funky connector and I can't find anything that'll fit the stupid thing. It says it can accept 9-35V, center positive (amps? who knows). Anyone know of an equivalent HP supply that'll fit this, or if it requires a super special expensive HP adapter? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 26 17:28:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: paging Sridhar References: <006b01c3c4b6$7c250a00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <007c01c3e464$1d8abd00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anyone? Guess he just vanished? John A. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:57 AM Subject: paging Sridhar Anybody know where he is? We were discussing something and he just went off the map about a week ago. A private response might be best. John A. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jan 26 17:44:10 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: OT: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <000a01c3e454$e6c28780$665d4ed5@geoff> References: <20040126083716.GD30246@bos7.spole.gov> <021801c3e3f8$5d0180c0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <20040126111016.GA9085@bos7.spole.gov> <000a01c3e454$e6c28780$665d4ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <1075159844.17526.218.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 21:07, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:10 AM > Subject: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > > > " I had cow-orkers over for a barbeque once, " > > Were they guests or the meal ? :>) where did that start? I'm sure I remember seeing the "cow orker" typo in usenet postings about ten years ago, but maybe it has a history far older than that... cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 17:33:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <4015860D.E29A7C7F@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > A saying I happen to like is there would be no such thing as the > Environmental Movement t'were it not for scientific illiteracy. If the > goal were *really* to clean up pollution, then we would not be dealing > with countries whose idea of waste disposal is to dump it in the river. Yes, and this would still be going on were it not for the reporter that traveled to China and took photographs of streams piled with waste and little bare-footed kids picking parts out of scary looking electronic scrap (lots of sharp edges). It still goes on of course, but to much less of a degree since new laws were passed barring any scrap electronics from being shipped overseas (at least here in California, and at least as long as the various recyclers are willing to play by the rules). The ACCRC, for example, used to use middlemen who were shipping the stuff to China until that article hit (and in their defense, they had no idea this was going on, same with 99% of the recyclers out there). Now they audit every plant that they send scrap to and, per California regulations, nothing they send out leaves the United States. Everything is processed with recyclers that do the refining within the borders of the US, preferbly within the state itself. Yes, environmental regulations are often onerous, sometimes contradictory, many times ineffective, but the problem is not the laws being passed but the people passing them and the lobbyists working on behalf of the gross polluters who are not interested in maintaining sensible and ethical practices but are after the almighty dollar so that rich people can become obscenely rich. The laws are a result of a broken process. Sorry, there I got being a far-left-leaning liberal bitch again. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Mon Jan 26 17:42:05 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Video "sparkles" (was: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! References: <200401252138968.SM01024@bobdev> <1075093185.4752.0.camel@ernest> <20040126131159.R69296@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <4015A5CD.42823BBC@msm.umr.edu> i guess you could have dumped the flash had you synced your memory accesses to the vertical interval? Or did you accidently kill a refresh that was then updated when the code wrote an updated version? Also if memory serves you could have swapped the page off visible, copied it, and swapped it back and created quite a flash. lots of opportunity for mischief. Jim Fred Cisin wrote: > > Hot Damn! I like sparkles. > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com how can that be (grumpy?) Jim From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Jan 26 17:56:21 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: Emulators of Classic Computers Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD14@nbulif015> > You also can't beat tubes for high output RF amplifiers. We have some here, 2 * BY1144 triode, class B, 250KW carrier, and TH538 tetrode, single ended, 300KW carrier. The filaments alone on the BY1144s take 5KW. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 26 17:11:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> from "Lyos Norezel" at Jan 25, 4 09:15:21 pm Message-ID: > > Doc... this is a BAD idea... I've fried numerous devices by using the > wrong power rating... even if it was only 1mA off. The voltage almost > never matters... as long as the power is correct. Hope this gets to u Sorry, but no way. The load (computer device, etc) will draw whatever current it needs. And provided the power supply (AC adapter in this case) can safely supply that current, everything will be fine _provided various other conditions are correct). A 1A mains adapter is one that can safely provide 1A. It will also quite happily run something needing 100mA (1/10A). The other conditions are : The voltage. This _can_ matter. Most devices expect an unregulated input, so the voltage probably isn't that critical, but I wouldn't want to use a 24V adapter on a device that expected 9V. In a few cases the AC adapter also includes voltage regulating circuitry (in which case the output may be something 'computer-like', such as 5V), and in this case you _must_ use a regulated adapter of the right voltage. Whether the device expects AC or DC. Some AC adapters are just transformers and give out AC. Others contain rectifiers and smoothing circuits and give out DC. Gatting this wrong will fry things (and note, it's not always OK to feed DC into a device expecting AC!) If the adapater outputs DC, then the polarity is critical too. You need to make sure the right terminal on the connector is +ve. Some HP calculators and related devices use special transformers with deliberately poor 'regulation' -- that is to say the output voltage is designed to drop as more current is drawn -- they have an effective internal resistance of >10 ohms. Using a normal transformer with those may well do damage. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 26 17:20:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126084137.GE30246@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 26, 4 08:41:37 am Message-ID: > Woah! Stop right there! The voltage _might_ or _might not_ be critical > depending on the nature of the circuit just to the left of the plug (i.e., > a 7805 can take a wide range of voltages), but I have seen other devices However, rememebr that the dissipation of a linear regulator (like the 7805) increases with the input voltage. IIRC, the 7805 is specified to work on a 7V to 35V input, and will supply a maximum current of 1A. The output, of course, is 5V. Now, if we give it 7V on the input, the power dissipated (neglecting the small amount used by the 7805's control circuitry) is (7-5)/1 = 2W If wie give it 35V, the power dissipated is 30W. The former may well be OK with a fairly small heat sink, the latter will almost certainly cause things to overheat. So please don't think a 35V AC adapter is safe just because there's a 7805 in there. > blow from being just a volt or two off. Some things work at *only* the > rated voltage. In gneneral, such devices use AC adapters with internal regulator circuits. You _must_ use a regulated adapter with them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 26 17:32:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:52 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> from "Lyos Norezel" at Jan 26, 4 01:49:29 am Message-ID: > Wrong... I'll give you an example which ANYONE and EVERYONE working > with electricity should know, and if they don't they SHOULD NOT work on > anything even remotely related to electricity until they do know it. > > You know that it's the current of the electricity is what will kill > you right? You could have thousands of volts running through your body First fundamental error : 'volts' do no run through anything. A voltage is measured across something. Currents run through things. > and still live. How is this possible, you might ask? Well if the the > current (power) is below .5 mA then it should not cause a problem. Ask OK, IIRC, the short circuit current of an alkaline (Duracell-like) D cell is about 6A. Care to explain to me why you are not instantly killed by this current if you touch the ends of such a cell (To the rest of you, _I_ know the answer, OK...) Similarlly I would be _very_ wary of touching the output of a power supply that could continuously supply 1kV at 0.4mA. I would guess it would quite happily supply 0.5mA for long enough to kill me! > any electricity teacher "At what point will electricity kill a human > being?" and their response will be something along the lines of > "Anything at or above .5 mA will (more than likely) kill a human being." > Of course there have been cases that said otherwise but this is the > majority case. Same thing applies to delicate electronics... apply more > amps then it's rated to handle and it's fried. Just last week I fried a You know, I have a PSU on my bench that will supply up to 8A continously. I have _never_ fried anything by using it, unless I cranked the voltage up too high. The fact that it _can_ supply 8A doesn't mean it's going to do so if given a single 7400 as a load. Similarly, I just said that the short-circuit current of a D cell was about 6A. A typical torch (flashlight to you) might have a bulb that draws 300mA in it. Why doesn't this burn out instantly at switch-on? > 2.4GHz wireless phone by applying a power supply that had exactly > the rated voltge but was 1A instead of the required 800mA. I smelled > smoke not long after plugging it in. All this in a unit that worked > properly with the right PSU just 2 weeks before... the original PSU > being lost. Need I sa! OK. Did you check if the adapter needed was AC or DC? If the latter, was the polarity correct. There are many reasons why the wrong adapter may do damageg, but having it capable of safely supplying 1A rather than 0.8A is not one of them! > y any > more? Current is everything... voltage is nothing. > > Lyos Gemini Norezel > > BTW- goto the nearest high school and ask the electricity teacher > about this... see what he say... then compare it to what I said. > Remarkably like, eh? LOL At least in the UK, schoolteachers are not a reliable source of information. People who have been doing electrical and electronic engineering for 30 years or more tend to be. And there are plenty of such people on this list. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 18:04:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <40158669.2060405@srv.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original > author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. > That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. My guess is wrong polarity. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 18:07:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126173424.008b9600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Also. Have you tried slowing down the clock on the ISA slots? A lot of > the newer (10 years?) machines run the slots at faster than the old offical > rate of 8 MHz. But you can vary the frequency in many (all?) of them using > the BIOS setup. Hmm, I wasn't aware of that. I'll check that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 18:14:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> To hell collecting computers! We should rip them apart for the chips! Joe From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 18:30:17 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1075162674.1620.79.camel@dhcp-250200> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 13:02, Doc Shipley wrote: > Thank you all, and if anybody cares, after 24 hours of fairly heavy > use neither the adapter nor JetDirect proper are more than mildly warm > to the touch. That's not as much fun though as melting and bad smells. From tponsford at theriver.com Sun Jan 25 18:13:03 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: OK, who needs a DEC SF200 In-Reply-To: <40143066.3080908@theriver.com> References: <40102849.2050405@theriver.com> <40143066.3080908@theriver.com> Message-ID: <40145B8F.3020908@theriver.com> Hi All, I checked out the SF200 this morning. I was pulled out of service in working condition. I contains three (3) of the "cannisters" RF72's? that contain 4 DSSI disks each. I believe the each disk had a 1.2-2GB for a total capacity of 14-24GB. It looked like all the cabling was complete in the back. It also contained a power conditioning unit. Someone has already looked into the shipping for this, and it appears it will cost about $300 to ship it back east from Tucson, Az. If I can get the unit for "real cheap" I'll get it, and keep it for someone who might want to trade some stuff for it. Cheers Tom Ponsford > Tom Ponsford wrote: > >> It's a beast, but unfortunatly no Vax to go with it :-( Still if you >> want lots o' DSSI storage? >> >> It will probably go "really cheap", unless one of the usual bidders >> already has a buyer for it. >> >> I'll see it first-hand on Monday and will know what is really in it. >> It goes to auction on Tuesday. >> >> pictures: >> >> http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127047.jpg >> http://w3.arizona.edu/~pacs/surplus/public/sale/P0127042.jpg >> >> Tom >> _______________________________________________ >> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue >> > From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jan 26 18:37:48 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040126163633.039eaa40@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:43 AM 1/26/2004, you wrote: >I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time >(about 10 years now) so I have some questions. > >I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM >controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI >slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the >proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. > >I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It >killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed >but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). a 16 bit MFM controller and the IDE interface look identical to the system, I've used 16 bit ISA MFM's in pentium systems, but have to disable the onboard harddrive, and if the MFM has a floppy controller, I have had to disable the onboard floppy as well. From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Mon Jan 26 18:59:16 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: "(Ping) Paging Chris Johnson, paging Chris Johnson." Message-ID: <20040127005916.9E47F3A083@server1.messagingengine.com> Anyone know whatever happened to Chris Johnson? I sent off for an HP-85 from him (back in late September last year), & still haven't recieved it! -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 18:31:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Something different: Hewlett Packard 9868A I/O Expander W/ Interfa Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126193114.007a0390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hewlett Packard 9868A I/O Expander W/ Interface I've never seen one of these before but if I'm not mistaken it's for the old HP 9820 and 9830 (and similar) calculators. Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 26 19:07:25 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <040126183342.28231@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of > TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu > Sent: 26 January 2004 23:34 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: MicroVAX I update > > > I could have sworn that about a month ago I posted the meaning of the > codes for a MV I and that it was waiting for a boot command... You did, sorry. You left the LED codes for the CPU but I didn't realise the significance - I was too hooked on the the diagnostic LED stopping at 3 :-/ Unemployment is rotting my brain......I was amazed today that I remembered how to put a BA23 back together. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 26 19:12:06 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <1075159844.17526.218.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 26 January 2004 23:31 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: OT: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > > where did that start? I'm sure I remember seeing the "cow orker" typo in > usenet postings about ten years ago, but maybe it has a history far > older than that... > I'm sure it's been in common parlance for longer than this, but my other online home at www.b3ta.com (currently offline for upgrades) coined the term 'orking' for a picture of an animal that had its nose too close to the camera lens, and from that the 'new' term of a cow-orker was born, but from sniffing around USENET archives it seems it's been around for longer than the last couple of years :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From wpointon at earthlink.net Mon Jan 26 19:12:49 2004 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (william pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: deciphering memory chips In-Reply-To: <200401262301.RAA11056@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: hi all - a link which has been useful to me for years has been http://www.chipmunk.nl/DRAM/DRAM.htm i hope this can help someone out as ive found all of you to be so very helpful - thanks all ---- billp On Monday, Jan 26, 2004, at 18:01 US/Eastern, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > I came across this link last week: > > http://www.delec.com/guide/memory/ > > -Lawrence LeMay > >> What's a good online resource to figure out what type of memory chips >> you have? >> >> I have an old matrox Ultima + VLB card that has 2mb vram (consisting >> of 8 x KM428C25J-6 chips) and has 8 more sockets for 2mb more memory >> (the type where the chip pins are curled around and point to the >> bottom of the chip) >> >> Are these common chips? Most video cards I have seen either use dram >> or edo ram. >> > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 26 19:16:12 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: paging Sridhar In-Reply-To: <007c01c3e464$1d8abd00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > Guess he just vanished? I hope not - I have something I need to talk to him about as well. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 26 19:06:57 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: Kevin Handy "Re: Voltage & Current.." (Jan 26, 14:28) References: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> <10401262032.ZM20906@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <40158669.2060405@srv.net> Message-ID: <10401270106.ZM21447@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 14:28, Kevin Handy wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > >Well, there might be a way to deal with the problem. [ stuff about analysing voltage ] > I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original > author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. > That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. This is a non-sequitur :-) I was replying to David Corbin's problem, not the phone with smoke signalling. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 26 19:11:07 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long)" (Jan 26, 17:28) References: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126172803.008b3af0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10401270111.ZM21455@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 17:28, Joe R. wrote: > I was referring to open circuit > voltage which is how batteries are usually measured since "under load > voltage" is obviously dependent on the load. Actually, to nitpick, dry cells at least are properly measured under a light load, because as they age, they develop higher internal resistance. Measuring them with a high impedance voltmeter will suggest they're good when they're not. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tomj at wps.com Mon Jan 26 19:34:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126171940.008b2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126171940.008b2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1075166507.1622.90.camel@dhcp-250200> Oh man this thread is gettin' wacky! Not only are there resistive loads, slightly-variable resistive loads, phase-dominated AC loads, there are also ACTIVE loads, eg. 99% of everything made today that uses a wallwart! The (example) telephone draws little current quiescent, more when it rings, more when charging a dead vs. full battery, a lot when you're talking, etc and nauseum. They got them new-fangled micro-compu-compacitor thingies in 'em what make's em all complicated. Chips, non-corn, silicon. I think this dead horse of a thread is beaten into a thin film. You CAN substitute wallwarts, but you gotta know what you're doing or be lucky. If a device wants regulated voltage (eg. my Linksys WAP) it often -- but not always! -- will say something like "5.0V x mA" on it. If a device comes with a (say) 12V AC wart, you (the YOU that knows about electronics, if you don't have a you that does, don't) you can substitute a 13V, 14V, maybe even an 18V wallwart, even a DC one! Maybe. There's no substitute for knowledge except exhaustive N x M matrix testing with a lot of wall warts and many, expendable, copies of your appliance. (Eg. stick with the non-smoking, functional combination.) Someone else can have the last word. I gotta go charge my orgone battery. tomj On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 14:19, Joe R. wrote: > At 01:22 PM 1/26/04 -0700, you wrote: > > > >> reason that your phone smoked was the it's design relied on the internal > >> impedence (a fancy word for resistance(R) ) to limit the current. When you > > > >Close, but although both are measuered in Ohms, impedence includes > >another factor: Phase. Resistance is non reactive. That is, it does not > >change with the frequency of the source voltage. Impedence is a > >combination of resistance and reactance (capacitive and/or inductive), > >and along with phase, can change with the frequency of the applied voltage. > > > > I take exception with your reply! While technically true, in this case > we were clearly talking about a battery powered telephone therefore we're > talking about pure DC with no AC. Therefore phase, frequency and impedence > are irrelevent. Throwing in the talk of impedence just to show off is only > confusing the issue. The orginal poster that thought voltage didn't matter > clearly doesn't clearly understand electricity and I didn't won't to > confuse him further by introducing AC and it's effects. > > Joe From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 26 19:26:39 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK In-Reply-To: <00f101c3e414$3f7f6be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > How can we know? Get to know several scrappers and ask. Some of them are decent guys. Others are not. IN time, it is easy to tell them apart. Frnkly, don't listen to anyone else, unless directly connected with the scrap industry. There is a tremendous amount of disinformation about scrap out there (and on this list, although it is getting better). > I believe one scrapper told me that for a 6 > foot rack with a 21MX cpu and a small QIC tape drive and small HPIB drive > (each of the later units is 19 inches wide, about 4 inches tall, 15 inches > deep, and weighs about 15 pounds so we're not talking lots of metal)... that > he could get $140 for the scrap metal from it. Is this about right or > off-base? Sounds reasonable. HP gets a premium in the scrap market, due to the excessive gold. Also - and I know this is obvious, but some don't "get it" - the money a scrapper gets for metal is not just pennies above what he is willing to pay. Good aluminum alloy might fetch him a dollar a pound, although he may pay only 20 cents a pound. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 26 19:23:05 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: This just makes me really SICK References: Message-ID: <4015BD79.37F25CDF@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > A saying I happen to like is there would be no such thing as the > > Environmental Movement t'were it not for scientific illiteracy. If the > > goal were *really* to clean up pollution, then we would not be dealing > > with countries whose idea of waste disposal is to dump it in the river. > > Yes, and this would still be going on were it not for the reporter that > traveled to China and took photographs of streams piled with waste and > little bare-footed kids picking parts out of scary looking electronic I am not talking about electronic scrap, but rather some of the manufacturing methods that were (are?) being used overseas. And that applies to a LOT of things that are manufactured overseas (and I *think* primarily from Asian countries.) I will still maintain that cleaning up "polution" is not the goal except perhaps for those idealistic folks who believe the media and other rot with that regard. Right now, pollution is associated with mom and apple pie, and that by itself is enough to show that emotions rather than facts are being used to drive the environmental movement. A rather dangerous situation :(. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jan 26 19:50:45 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: 5 unique bidders over the $200 mark.... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:14 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 To hell collecting computers! We should rip them apart for the chips! Joe From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Jan 26 19:53:49 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <0b4d01c3e478$68cba1d0$947ba8c0@p933> I'll be the '71 date code helped. . . Still, that's an awful lot for a couple of dozen old RAMs. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:14 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 To hell collecting computers! We should rip them apart for the chips! Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 26 20:09:54 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Video "sparkles" (was: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! In-Reply-To: <4015A5CD.42823BBC@msm.umr.edu> References: <200401252138968.SM01024@bobdev> <1075093185.4752.0.camel@ernest> <20040126131159.R69296@newshell.lmi.net> <4015A5CD.42823BBC@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <20040126180116.N79141@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, jim wrote: > i guess you could have dumped the flash had you synced your memory > accesses to the vertical interval? Absolutely! I could have (and have done so for other programs). But in this case, 1. I could not get the entire 4000 bytes in a single VBI on the slower (4.77 MHz) machines. 2. I wanted absolute minimum resident size, since there was no way to know ahead of time WHAT foreground programs would be run. 3. Once I told Sybex that it was the flash bulb, they were VERY happy, since it provided a further visual confirmation that the picture had been taken! > Also if memory serves you could have swapped the page off visible, > copied it, and swapped it back and created quite a flash. lots of > opportunity for mischief. At least one of the programs that they were trying to illustrate was already messing with the RAM of other pages, so I thought that it would be prudent to stand clear. > > > Hot Damn! I like sparkles. > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > how can that be (grumpy?) Somebody else wrote the desire for sparkles. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From MGemeny at pgcps.org Mon Jan 26 20:09:55 2004 From: MGemeny at pgcps.org (Mike Gemeny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) Message-ID: Jay wrote: >To my knowledge the only way SIMH might do this is if you ran multiple >copies of SIMH, perhaps in separate windows. And even then, not sure it >would let you cross connect cables between the systems. But I may be wrong >about this. Yep, that?s the way the Access Zip launches SIMH to run Access or ?F?. The two occurrences of SIMH are connected with a pair of sockets. Sure, we know it?s inefficient. But just now, it?s the only way to run ?F? or Access, without real hardware, and, they both do run under simulation, IOP and all! I had a guest come over this past weekend with a set of tapes and we were able to read and reload his tapes into a running simulation. All in all, we spent 9 hours at it, and 2 of those were spent breaking into his system. What we ended up doing was to ?RESTORE? a $HELLO from some other HIBE tape in order to get past his ridiculously tight security. We had a blast banging our heads together on it, but I want to let him tell that story. The bottom line is that Access IS ALIVE under simulation!!!! It only gets better from here? Take the ZIP for a spin! Mike. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 20:13:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Something different: Hewlett Packard 9868A I/O Expander W/ Interfa In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126193114.007a0390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Hewlett Packard 9868A I/O Expander W/ Interface > > I've never seen one of these before but if I'm not mistaken it's for the > old HP 9820 and 9830 (and similar) calculators. > > Yep, I have one that I got with a 9830B. Such a nice machine... :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bear at typewritten.org Mon Jan 26 20:51:49 2004 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <4014E507.701@hotmail.com> References: <00a201c3e3aa$0fd2e210$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <20040126084459.GF30246@bos7.spole.gov> <4014E507.701@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2004, at 1:59 AM, Jim Davis wrote: > Anybody have an estimate on the worth of a Symbolics 1200 XL with a > color frame buffer and mono tube? > My unemployment runs out in a week, and although I have an interview > with general software in > Seattle, I'm going to need some money. > Jim-- I'm in Seattle and would like to offer you $250 for it. Feel free to shop it around, it won't hurt my feelings if you find a better offer or decide not to sell at that price. ok bear From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Jan 26 21:01:29 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040127030129.31763.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> These were very early semiconductor memories, among the very first. I believe this may be the product that launched Intel. To a serious chip collector, I'm sure this was a great find. --Bill --- "Joe R." wrote: > &sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1> > > To hell collecting computers! We should rip them > apart for the chips! > > > > Joe From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Jan 26 21:05:39 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040127030539.80039.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, I didn't notice that the date code was 1971. Since these chips go back to 1969 (according to www.cpu-zone.com), the really collectible "Early Intel" should be older than that. --Bill --- "Joe R." wrote: > &sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1> > > To hell collecting computers! We should rip them > apart for the chips! > > > > Joe From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 26 21:09:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? References: <000601c3dd1e$211f6990$1a02a8c0@starship1> <4009773D.2070103@charter.net> Message-ID: <001f01c3e482$f89f3290$1a02a8c0@starship1> I went back and did some reading from Apple Confidential, it does list that Star Trek was made into a functional demo and was booting on Intel 486 PC's (actually supplied by Intel themselves as the Star Trek offices were located across the street) Apparently the head of technology saw his pink slip flash before his eyes when he realized that a Mac OS on PC hardware would cause the elimination of Mac hardware and the project was scuttled internally... It would be cool to see that original code running on a PC today. Also it mentioned that while the OS did boot on a PC, the Chooser didn't work, nor did serial port access and/or appletalk and Applications did not work and would've had to have been ported over. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > Subscribe to the darwin-x86 mailing list at: > > http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/darwin-x86 > > Curt vendel wrote: > > >Hmmmm.... > > > >D/L'ing now... curious to check this out :-) > > > >I have a Mac OS X 10.2 Server running in my office, so I'm curious to see > >how these interact... > > > >Curt > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Andrew Prince" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:37 PM > >Subject: OT: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > > > > > > > >>On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 22:37, chris wrote: > >> > >> > >>>However, I do know that the later Rhapsody project did in fact take a > >>>turn to the Intel world. They got far enough on the first version of OS > >>> > >>> > >X > > > > > >>>for Intel that it was released to developers in beta (alpha?) form. > >>> > >>> > >>***Snip*** > >> > >> > >>> There should > >>>be info on this project available out there as it was no secret, it was > >>>originally a fully planned version of OS X, although it doesn't look > >>>anything like what OS X is now (from what I understand, its really an > >>>Apple-ized version of NeXTStep, but haven't never personally used/seen > >>>NeXTStep, I can't verify that). > >>> > >>> > >>Well... They have Darwin (the parts under the fancy GUI) available in > >>x86 format... Freely downloadable at > >>http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ all the way from 10.0 to > >>10.3... > >> > >>Or is that not what you're interested in? > >> > >>Sorry for being Off Topic... > >> > >>TTFN > >>Andy-roo > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Jan 26 21:15:55 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [FAQ publication?] was: RE: MicroVAX I update Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040126215125.0261bec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> On 1/26/04 6:33:42 PM, General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only (cctech@classiccmp.org) wrote: > I could have sworn that about a month ago I posted the meaning of the > codes for a MV I and that it was waiting for a boot command... > > Joe Heck This brings up something I'd been thinking upon once in a while. I propose the following: 1.) For some of the more frequently discussed machines (not just DEC) there ought to be a FAQ generated by those who're expert in a particular machine or machines. In this case, expected MV I boot routine would be one of the things listed plus expected failure modes based upon configuration or hardware failures (or complete lack of an expected hardware item). Like Adrian/Witchy, most of us forget stuff after a long time away and this would help us with much of the troubleshooting (I forget stuff after *short* times myself, darn it). Actually, any machine, not just the frequently discussed machines should be included in the FAQ archive. There are folks who know lots about obscure machines and for the interest of preservation of our beloved machines, we need to have access to anything that could possibly come along. 2.) Perhaps Jay could host FAQs in some sort of indexed file system, in ASCII which is normally viewable by nearly anyone on most any platform. Text-based files shouldn't take up much room. 3.) Also, I propose that Jay script the cc servers to automatically broadcast a message reminding folks of the location of the FAQs, how to use them and perhaps some basic rules for posting stuff to the cc lists (aimed toward newbies for instance). The interval could be once a week, every 15 days, 30 days or whatever between. Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 21:32:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts,voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <10401270111.ZM21455@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Joe R." <"Re: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long)"@tampabay.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126172803.008b3af0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126223253.00796850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:11 AM 1/27/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Jan 26, 17:28, Joe R. wrote: > >> I was referring to open circuit >> voltage which is how batteries are usually measured since "under load >> voltage" is obviously dependent on the load. > >Actually, to nitpick, dry cells at least are properly measured under a >light load, because as they age, they develop higher internal >resistance. Measuring them with a high impedance voltmeter will >suggest they're good when they're not. Many batteries also develope a "surface charge" and it has the same effect. (My nitpick) It just goes to show that there's a lot more to batteries than most people think. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 26 22:12:10 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New ClassicFinds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <1075166507.1622.90.camel@dhcp-250200> References: <3.0.6.32.20040126171940.008b2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126171940.008b2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040126231210.0079e5a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:21 PM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote: >Oh man this thread is gettin' wacky! > >Not only are there resistive loads, slightly-variable resistive loads, >phase-dominated AC loads, there are also ACTIVE loads, eg. 99% of >everything made today that uses a wallwart! The (example) telephone >draws little current quiescent, more when it rings, more when charging a >dead vs. full battery, a lot when you're talking, etc and nauseum. > >They got them new-fangled micro-compu-compacitor thingies in 'em what >make's em all complicated. Chips, non-corn, silicon. > >I think this dead horse of a thread is beaten into a thin film. > >You CAN substitute wallwarts, but you gotta know what you're doing or be >lucky. If a device wants regulated voltage (eg. my Linksys WAP) it often >-- but not always! -- will say something like "5.0V x mA" on it. If a >device comes with a (say) 12V AC wart, you (the YOU that knows about >electronics, if you don't have a you that does, don't) you can >substitute a 13V, 14V, maybe even an 18V wallwart, even a DC one! Maybe. Actually it's not all that complicated. You just have to know something about what you're doing and use some common sense. The one serious gottcha that will get you is when the load expects to have a significant resistance (or impedence) in the power source. Most (99%) loads don't care and 12VDC is 12VDc no matter what the source but if you connect a low impedence source (like a lead acid battery) to something that expects a high impedence source (like the photo flash that I mentioned) then the device will draw too much current and fry itself. However I've found very few things that operate that way. I keep a BIG box of wall warts and plenty of batteries around and I've made up hundreds of power supplies using non-original wall warts and/or batteries. As far as I can remember, the photo flash was the only one that gave me trouble. You definitely need to know if the device needs AC or DC and what polarity. But that's frequently marked on the chassis or the old wall wart. in fact, in the US it's required to be marked by law. If it's not marked then you have to open up the device and look at the power input circuits. Does it go to a rectifier circuit or transformer? If so then it uses an AC input. If it connects **directly** to rechargeable batteries, logic circuits or to three terminal regulator or across a capcitor then it uses DC input. You can look at the input device and get the polarity. Count the number of cells in a battery pack and multiply by their voltage (~1.3V/cell for NiCads) and that will tell you the minimum input requirement for that circuit. Raise that by about 20% to force the batteries to charge and it should work fine. Capacitors are almost always marked for polarity and voltage. Derate the voltage about 2/3 and it will almost certainly work. Logic circuits have well known voltage input levels. Look up their specs if you don't know what it is. I shouldn't have to explain that. You can get the model number from the three terminal regulators and look at the specs and get the absolute maximum input voltage and output voltage. Feed it a voltage at least 1 1/2 volts higher than the output voltage but less than the absolute max and it will work. But be aware that anything over Vout plus ~1 1/2 will be converted to heat so you may need to stay under the maximum just to prevent excess heat dissapation. The 1 1/2 volts is a typical number, if you really want to be precise, look up the exact value in the specs. They do make regulators that drop as little at .1 volts. But in most cases the regulator will be a common 780x and 1 1/2 volt drop will work fine. Or if you like, connect a variable DC supply to the input and monitor the output while you slowly vary the input voltage. You'll quickly find the point at which the regulator output starts to drop. That input voltage will be the minimum input voltage. Again, you can get the Vin Max from the regulator specs but it's usually MUCH higher than the minimum and it you stay within a reasonable amount (+50%) of the minimum you won't have any trouble. This procedure will take care of 95% of the cases. Joe > >There's no substitute for knowledge except exhaustive N x M matrix >testing with a lot of wall warts and many, expendable, copies of your >appliance. (Eg. stick with the non-smoking, functional combination.) > >Someone else can have the last word. I gotta go charge my orgone >battery. > >tomj > > >On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 14:19, Joe R. wrote: >> At 01:22 PM 1/26/04 -0700, you wrote: >> > >> >> reason that your phone smoked was the it's design relied on the internal >> >> impedence (a fancy word for resistance(R) ) to limit the current. When you >> > >> >Close, but although both are measuered in Ohms, impedence includes >> >another factor: Phase. Resistance is non reactive. That is, it does not >> >change with the frequency of the source voltage. Impedence is a >> >combination of resistance and reactance (capacitive and/or inductive), >> >and along with phase, can change with the frequency of the applied voltage. >> > >> >> I take exception with your reply! While technically true, in this case >> we were clearly talking about a battery powered telephone therefore we're >> talking about pure DC with no AC. Therefore phase, frequency and impedence >> are irrelevent. Throwing in the talk of impedence just to show off is only >> confusing the issue. The orginal poster that thought voltage didn't matter >> clearly doesn't clearly understand electricity and I didn't won't to >> confuse him further by introducing AC and it's effects. >> >> Joe > From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Jan 26 22:27:11 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [FAQ publication?] was: RE: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040126215125.0261bec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040126215125.0261bec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20040127041955.GB1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Christian Fandt, from writings of Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:15:55PM -0500: > This brings up something I'd been thinking upon once in a while. I propose > the following: > > 1.) For some of the more frequently discussed machines (not just DEC) there > ought to be a FAQ generated by those who're expert in a particular machine > or machines. In this case, expected MV I boot routine would be one of the > things listed plus expected failure modes based upon configuration or > hardware failures (or complete lack of an expected hardware item). Like Well, you could always try to get any missing information incorporated into the MicroVAX FAQ, which could use some help from additional maintainers. Take a look at the nice work that Jim Agnew did on the FAQ, along with some other links to additional related info: http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 22:56:35 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <01c301c3e45c$d7a450a0$0500fea9@game> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <01c301c3e45c$d7a450a0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <2EB296AE-5085-11D8-A81D-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 26, 2004, at 4:36 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: >> >> One very nice thing about the Sprint adapter is that it has an >> actual >> cord & plug between PSU and outlet. I guess that makes it a >> floor-wart. :) Half the jacks in my power strips are wasted because >> the wall-warts take up 3 slots. I think I'll solder cords on all of >> 'em. > > Easier just to buy the newer power strips that have 2 rows of jacks, > second > row spaced and directed for wallwarts. Wallmarts has then fairly cheap. Nah, I've been meaning to get down to the hardware store and build a power strip. You can get the aluminum channel and top plates with variously spaced knockouts for standard wall-mount sockets. Add the heavy-duty extension cord that got mowed last fall and a few sockets and you've got a sweet grounded PDU running along the back of your bench. Actually, I keep threatening to just inlet the desktop itself. :) Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 23:00:16 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <1075162674.1620.79.camel@dhcp-250200> References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <1075162674.1620.79.camel@dhcp-250200> Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2004, at 6:17 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 13:02, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> Thank you all, and if anybody cares, after 24 hours of fairly heavy >> use neither the adapter nor JetDirect proper are more than mildly warm >> to the touch. > > That's not as much fun though as melting and bad smells. Hey. HEY! That's my beloved Lexmark 4039 you're talking about! ;^) Doc From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 23:04:10 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: what bus is it? Message-ID: <20040127050410.67348.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> Take a look of the auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3454239271&category=1244 I am curious what bus the edge connector is of the big 486 board? It apparently is not 16 bit ISA, VISA, or ESIA. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 26 23:04:40 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FC13A37-5086-11D8-A81D-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 26, 2004, at 5:26 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> Thank you all, and if anybody cares, after 24 hours of fairly heavy >> use neither the adapter nor JetDirect proper are more than mildly warm >> to the touch. > > I've got a JetDirect 300X sans power supply. It has a super funky > connector and I can't find anything that'll fit the stupid thing. It > says > it can accept 9-35V, center positive (amps? who knows). > > Anyone know of an equivalent HP supply that'll fit this, or if it > requires > a super special expensive HP adapter? Hmm. I just unsoldered that idiot socket, whacked the connector off the Sprint adapter, and soldered the ends to the PCB. Took about 8 minutes. Mostly because I forgot to run the wire through the hole in the case the first time. If you aren't in a hurry, though, HP has the adapters for most of the JetDirects available online, and the prices don't suck. The EX+ adapter would have cost $7.95 and postage. Sorry, though, I didn't bookmark the page. Doc From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 23:07:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> <1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <01c301c3e45c$d7a450a0$0500fea9@game> <2EB296AE-5085-11D8-A81D-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <016701c3e493$87bcf920$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:56 PM Subject: Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) > Nah, I've been meaning to get down to the hardware store and build a > power strip. You can get the aluminum channel and top plates with > variously spaced knockouts for standard wall-mount sockets. Add the > heavy-duty extension cord that got mowed last fall and a few sockets > and you've got a sweet grounded PDU running along the back of your > bench. > > Actually, I keep threatening to just inlet the desktop itself. :) > > > Doc > > I have one of those industrial type aluminum grounded 6' long multiple 120vac outlets screwed to the side of one of my L shaped computer desks in the basement where some of my equipment is plugged into. I have a 12' one I haven't installed yet (was going to run it along the back wall in the basement). I have the surge strips I was talking about plugged into them along with other gear. I have over a dozen machines and assorted gear connected and setup to run with the flick of a switch. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 26 23:11:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Looking for Amiga Gods Message-ID: I'm seeking out for a friend the game Gods for the Amiga. I'd like to get the full original package with all the trimmings preferably. Has anyone got a copy of this that they'd like to sell? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Jan 26 23:15:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: what bus is it? In-Reply-To: <20040127050410.67348.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040127050410.67348.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4015F3E0.9090106@atarimuseum.com> You sure its not VESA ??? Looks like that type of slots. Curt SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >Take a look of the auction >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3454239271&category=1244 > >I am curious what bus the edge connector is of the big >486 board? It apparently is not 16 bit ISA, VISA, or >ESIA. > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 26 23:20:05 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS 9trk tape success Message-ID: Thanks to many, in particular Witchy (cheers, mate! absolutely *brill*) for the info on sysgenning SCSI stuff into VMS. $mou MKB0: _label: test $copy welcome.txt mkb0: [spin/stop - spin/stop - spinspin stop] $dir MKB0: [spin/stop etc etc] Directory MKB0:[] Welcome.txt;1 Total of 1 files $type MKB0:welcome.txt [glorious spinning/stopping] Welcome to OpenVMS VAX V7.2 $ Now I can read/write 9trk tape to laptop and/or VAXstation. woo-freakin-hoo!! Next: Ethernet.... Cheers John From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jan 26 23:20:49 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: what bus is it? References: <20040127050410.67348.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <017001c3e495$538a2bd0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHAUN RIPLEY" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:04 AM Subject: what bus is it? > Take a look of the auction > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3454239271&category=1244 > > I am curious what bus the edge connector is of the big > 486 board? It apparently is not 16 bit ISA, VISA, or > ESIA. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > Looks to me like this: DIAMOND FLOWER, INC. 486-33/50UCE, 486DX2-50UCE Processor 80486DX/80486DX2 Processor Speed 33/50(internal)/50/66(internal)MHz Chip Set UMC Max. Onboard DRAM 32MB Cache 64/128/256KB BIOS AMI Dimensions 330mm x 220mm I/O OPTIONS 32-bit external memory card slot NPU Options None Consult the th99 database (I downloaded the whole dam thing and expanded it on this machine for use identifying older PC cards and addons). The large slot in the back is a 32 bit external memory card slot. From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Jan 27 00:38:59 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) References: Message-ID: <005301c3e4a0$41c8e110$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> interesting thing we had on the access system two things actually... one was a bbs with 100 message boards, mail system and vote and a multi user chat that worked through writing and reading a disc file...... the other was a giant space war game that had the universe held in a matrix in a disc file.... before I got lock feet for the 2883 we would have to come in a kick it back into place after the local kids spent all nite playing the game.... I wonder if my old tapes will still load.. guess I am looking for a tape drive that will hook to a pc with controller ready to go turnkey... any suggestions? ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gemeny" To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:09 PM Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) > > Jay wrote: > >To my knowledge the only way SIMH might do this is if you ran multiple > >copies of SIMH, perhaps in separate windows. And even then, not sure it > >would let you cross connect cables between the systems. But I may be wrong > >about this. > > Yep, that?s the way the Access Zip launches SIMH to run Access or ?F?. The two > occurrences of SIMH are connected with a pair of sockets. > > Sure, we know it?s inefficient. But just now, it?s the only way to run ?F? or Access, > without real hardware, and, they both do run under simulation, IOP and all! > > I had a guest come over this past weekend with a set of tapes and we were able > to read and reload his tapes into a running simulation. All in all, we spent 9 hours > at it, and 2 of those were spent breaking into his system. > > What we ended up doing was to ?RESTORE? a $HELLO from some other HIBE > tape in order to get past his ridiculously tight security. We had a blast banging > our heads together on it, but I want to let him tell that story. > > The bottom line is that Access IS ALIVE under simulation!!!! > > It only gets better from here? Take the ZIP for a spin! > > Mike. > > > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 27 00:46:39 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4016094F.4030301@internet1.net> In the last month, I removed an ISA MFM (or possibly RLL) card from my PC. I wasn't using the HD capabilites of the card, However. I was only using the floppy controller, since I accidently fried the floppy controller on the MB. I am also not using the MB IDE interface. I am using an Adaptec scsi card. I toyed around with a driver at one point that would allow a person to mix mfm with modern drives. I can't recall what it was called, Though. I think I found it on Simtel, but I'm not sure. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time > (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. > > I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM > controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI > slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the > proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. > > I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It > killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed > but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). > > I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture > forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC > I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the > IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard > drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes > the drives on the primary controller. Weird. > > Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. > > I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC > with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test > the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. > From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Tue Jan 27 01:55:03 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: what bus is it? In-Reply-To: <20040127050410.67348.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040127175503.010875ac@pop-server> At 09:04 PM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote: >Take a look of the auction >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3454239271&category=1244 > >I am curious what bus the edge connector is of the big >486 board? It apparently is not 16 bit ISA, VISA, or >ESIA. The small picture doesn't show much detail, but it's probably a 32 bit memory card slot. I've had a few 386 motherboards with such cards. They usually have 16 30 pin SIMM sockets on them. When one is installed it usually disables the 4 SIMM sockets on the motherboard. From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Jan 27 01:07:07 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Batteries, wallwarts, voltages and currents Re: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040126171940.008b2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <20040126094929.47976.qmail@web41702.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126132224.0084f510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040126171940.008b2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40160E1B.6080100@cox.net> I hardly think that keeping the terms of a discussion in line with correct terminology is showing off in any way! If you don't understand the basics, it is difficult to advance beyond them, don't you agree? Impedance and resistance are simply not the same thing. Rather than just blurt that out, I thought I would define the difference for those who may not know. I didn't mean to nitpick! I'll go back in my cave now. :( -Bryan Joe R. wrote: > I take exception with your reply! While technically true, in this case > we were clearly talking about a battery powered telephone therefore we're > talking about pure DC with no AC. Therefore phase, frequency and impedence > are irrelevent. Throwing in the talk of impedence just to show off is only > confusing the issue. The orginal poster that thought voltage didn't matter > clearly doesn't clearly understand electricity and I didn't won't to > confuse him further by introducing AC and it's effects. > > Joe > From dave at naffnet.org.uk Tue Jan 27 01:30:03 2004 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4016137B.3020108@naffnet.org.uk> Witchy wrote: > >Unemployment is rotting my brain......I was amazed today that I remembered >how to put a BA23 back together. > > Did you remove all of the skin that used to be on your knuckles? Cheers, Dave. From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Tue Jan 27 04:07:33 2004 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine Message-ID: You could try a BIOS update to see if this works. Also you could try deactivating the onboard IDE controller since this one usually uses interrupts 14 and 15. Cheers, Eelco >>> Vintage Computer Festival 01/26 7:43 >>> I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes the drives on the primary controller. Weird. Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 05:11:30 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:53 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <4016137B.3020108@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave Woodman > Sent: 27 January 2004 07:30 > To: General@neptune.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX I update > > >Unemployment is rotting my brain......I was amazed today that I > remembered > >how to put a BA23 back together. > > > > > Did you remove all of the skin that used to be on your knuckles? Oh yes. I know they had to put some clearance in for cables between the back of the QBUS cards and the back cover, but did they HAVE to use such savage edges on the plating? cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 05:16:29 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS 9trk tape success In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: 27 January 2004 05:20 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: VAX/VMS 9trk tape success > > Thanks to many, in particular Witchy (cheers, mate! absolutely *brill*) > for the info on sysgenning SCSI stuff into VMS. Glad it worked; all that stuff's still in my head, it's only this list that stops it from being buried under knowledge of different types of wood for DIY :) > $type MKB0:welcome.txt > [glorious spinning/stopping] It's not that glorious when it's 3am and you're waiting for a VMS 5 upgrade to possibly not work....ah, happy days. People used to ask me why I had food-selling establishments for all my passwords back then - after several hours in an aircon computer room the only thing you can think of is hot food and/or blankets! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 05:23:07 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: <001f01c3e482$f89f3290$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Curt vendel > Sent: 27 January 2004 03:09 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > Apparently the head of technology saw his pink slip flash before his eyes > when he realized that a Mac OS on PC hardware would cause the > elimination of > Mac hardware and the project was scuttled internally... I wonder if that was a wise decision in hindsight. Discuss. *evil grin* :) > It would be cool to see that original code running on a PC today. Yep. I bet someone held onto a copy that's now sitting in the bottom of a filing cabinet somewhere slowly becoming unreadable..... > Also it mentioned that while the OS did boot on a PC, the Chooser didn't > work, nor did serial port access and/or appletalk and Applications did not > work and would've had to have been ported over. Oh. Bummer. Still, these days since I can't afford a G4 or G5 I've got the next best thing - ObjectBar, ObjectDock and WindowBlinds from Stardock! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 05:30:00 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [FAQ publication?] was: RE: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <20040127041955.GB1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 27 January 2004 04:20 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: [FAQ publication?] was: RE: MicroVAX I update > > Well, you could always try to get any missing information incorporated > into the MicroVAX FAQ, which could use some help from additional > maintainers. > > Take a look at the nice work that Jim Agnew did on the FAQ, along with > some other links to additional related info: > > http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html I guess a section on booting, console commands and gotchas would be handy, particularly with more and more people getting their paws on VAXen for the first time either at all or in many years. I'd forgotten for example that early MicroVAX consoles didn't include things like a useful SHOW command. With the MV I you don't even have the good ol' TEST 50 (or was it 75?) to show the config. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 27 05:37:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: FA: DEC H-214 Core memory Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040127063706.008287f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Core memory and a load of HP calculator parts including some really unusual stuff. Joe From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 27 05:51:59 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [FAQ publication?] was: RE: MicroVAX I update Message-ID: <0401271151.AA23079@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Witchy wrote: > I'd forgotten for example that > early MicroVAX consoles didn't include things like a useful SHOW command. > With the MV I you don't even have the good ol' TEST 50 (or was it 75?) to > show the config. My hunch is that MV I has a microcode console like 11/750 and 8200, so it's going to be VERY terse and bare-bones. MV II (KA630) has a 64 KB ROM with the console coded in VAX instructions, but you still have single-character commands and fairly minimal subset functionality. T 50 (T, not TEST) is on the VS2000. I know your feeling, I've also been too used to my KA655s for too long. My current day job is implementing a ROM monitor for custom PowerPC products. Being the VAX lover that I am, I designed it to look like a VAX console. I implemented the >>> prompt and the usual commands, though changed a bit since the PowerPC CPU is most definitely not a VAX (unfortunately). It's open source in my CVS, I will post a pointer when the code is a bit cleaner so I'm not embarrassed to show it to the world. MS (you've guessed it right... the example I modeled it after is KA655) From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Jan 27 06:27:58 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine References: Message-ID: <002101c3e4d1$024303f0$6501a8c0@barton> Other than disabling the on board controllers, if memory serves me correctly, these boards used an onboard bios to insert the code to fool the system to boot to these devices. You very likely need to discover what base address the card loads at and make sure that area is reserved in the BIOS as in use so nothing is shadowed there. Cards of this era typically used c0000 or 00000 for their boot code. THe caused problems on newer video cards as they wanted the same base IO address space. So basically the IRQ needs to be free, the controller base address needs to be free, (I.E. disabling the IDE controller) and the base memory address for the onboard bios needs to be available, not only in the CMOS, but also ensure no other devices are using it. You may have to dig in your parts bin to find an older video card that dosn't grab so many addresses, and possibly reconfigure the jumpers on your legacy disk controller to change it base address to an unused area. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelco Huininga" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:07 AM Subject: RE: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine > > You could try a BIOS update to see if this works. Also you could try deactivating the onboard IDE controller since this one usually uses interrupts 14 and 15. > > > Cheers, > Eelco > > > >>> Vintage Computer Festival 01/26 7:43 >>> > > I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time > (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. > > I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM > controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI > slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the > proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. > > I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It > killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed > but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). > > I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture > forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC > I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the > IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard > drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes > the drives on the primary controller. Weird. > > Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. > > I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC > with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test > the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Jan 27 06:32:39 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: Message from "Witchy" of "Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:23:07 GMT." Message-ID: <200401271232.i0RCWd018664@mwave.heeltoe.com> >> Apparently the head of technology saw his pink slip flash before his eyes >> when he realized that a Mac OS on PC hardware would cause the elimination >> of Mac hardware and the project was scuttled internally... I remember attending a mac developer's conference when that happened. Kin Seto (an evangelist) told me about it. They waffled back and forth about whether to show it to anyone. At one point we were told they would. Then later, not. Does anyone know who the "head of technology" on that project was? Or anyone who worked on it? (this may be the wrong list :-) -brad From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 08:31:19 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 In-Reply-To: <0b4d01c3e478$68cba1d0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20040127143119.23352.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com> Thats not a date code, its a lot number --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > I'll be the '71 date code helped. . . > > Still, that's an awful lot for a couple of dozen old > RAMs. . . > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > Joe R. > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:14 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM > chips = $418 > > 1247 > &sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1> > > To hell collecting computers! We should rip them > apart for the chips! > > > > Joe > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 27 08:39:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: <002101c3e4d1$024303f0$6501a8c0@barton> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040127093958.007ffd70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:27 AM 1/27/04 -0600, you wrote: >Other than disabling the on board controllers, if memory serves me >correctly, these boards used an onboard bios to insert the code to fool the >system to boot to these devices. You very likely need to discover what base >address the card loads at and make sure that area is reserved in the BIOS as >in use so nothing is shadowed there. Cards of this era typically used c0000 That should be C800. That was the address used by IBM and everybody copied it. IIRC some cards allowed alternate addresses, usually c000, d000, d800 and (I think) E000. Joe >or 00000 for their boot code. THe caused problems on newer video cards as >they wanted the same base IO address space. > >So basically the IRQ needs to be free, the controller base address needs to >be free, (I.E. disabling the IDE controller) and the base memory address for >the onboard bios needs to be available, not only in the CMOS, but also >ensure no other devices are using it. You may have to dig in your parts bin >to find an older video card that dosn't grab so many addresses, and possibly >reconfigure the jumpers on your legacy disk controller to change it base >address to an unused area. > >Bill > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Eelco Huininga" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:07 AM >Subject: RE: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine > > >> >> You could try a BIOS update to see if this works. Also you could try >deactivating the onboard IDE controller since this one usually uses >interrupts 14 and 15. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Eelco >> >> >> >>> Vintage Computer Festival 01/26 7:43 >>> >> >> I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time >> (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. >> >> I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM >> controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI >> slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the >> proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. >> >> I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It >> killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed >> but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). >> >> I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture >> forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC >> I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the >> IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard >> drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes >> the drives on the primary controller. Weird. >> >> Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. >> >> I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC >> with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test >> the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org >> >> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >mputers ] >> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >> >> >> >> > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 27 09:16:40 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040125213403.00803a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <000901c3e34e$e8e74250$2201a8c0@finans> <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127090844.04585008@mail.ubanproductions.com> I owned a BigBoard in college, but gave it away when I moved from Champaign to Boston. It is a pretty cool SBC with integrated single density floppy controller and video. A friend (thanks Bob) gave me an old BigBoard which he had laying around a while back and I started making it work again last night. So far, the crystal circuit was dead (temporarily replaced with an oscillator until new parts arrive), an address buffer was dead (purchased a NOS 74LS241 off the shelf at the local electronics store, mounted on a piece of cardboard which is all faded from age), the video drive XOR was dead (replaced with new 74LS86 from my stock bins), and all the ICs needed to be re-seated in their sockets. So far, I have the video section working and the board boots the system monitor, displaying the output on the overly tiny 3" diagonal CRT, which is the only monitor that survived my numerous moves over the years. I've purchased a new-to-me monitor for use on this board, but this tiny one will have to due until it arrives. The next step will be to attach a SSSD 8" floppy and if that works with some scratch floppies, I will try to boot the CP/M system floppies that I got from Don Maslin oh so long ago. I still have a couple of articles about modifying the BigBoard to use a double density floppy drive. I may have to try that at some point in the future. --tom From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Jan 27 09:48:43 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040125122424.026071f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040127093108.02693a80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Upon the date 03:13 PM 1/25/04 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival said something like: >On Sun, 25 Jan 2004, Christian Fandt wrote: > > > > > The OS's that are said in that website to be used in the GRiDLite are > > > > PenPoint, Penwindows, PenRight. What are all these?? > > > > > >PenPoint was Go Corporation's attempt at a pen-based OS (i.e. for tablet > > >computers). PenWindows was Microsoft's obligatory attempt to hijack the > > >market from Go (Read Jerry Kaplan's _Startup_ for a great story). I've > > >never heard of PenRight. > > > > Thanks for the info Sellam. I can't tell without tearing into the screen > > assembly if this machine has a touch type screen for pen use in order to > > utilize the subject OS's. Curious. > >It certainly does. All the GRiD tablets were pen-based. Ooops, In my attempt at trying to be somewhat brief in describing my GRiDLite Plus 1040 I did not indicate to everybody that it had a regular keyboard (83 keys). This is not a tablet computer (I've heard of GridPad; is that what you're thinking of Sellam?). It looks very much like many typical laptops of the late 1980's except it's all in Johnny Cash Black ;) I can email several digital images to those who may be interested in seeing what the thing looks like. Just email me. Recall that I mentioned only one website, in German, which gave some substantive info on my GRiDLite and that it mentioned only PenPoint, Penwindows, PenRight as being the OSs that the thing used. Maybe the website owner is incorrect although he also listed the thing having a touch screen? > > For the other listeners, recall we're talking about a Grid Systems GRiDLite > > Plus model 1040. Are these the only OS's this thing works with? I'm a > >They can run DOS (not terribly useful unless you also have an external >keyboard) and Windows with Pen extensions (i.e. PenWindows). > > > little surprised somebody hasn't commented on this machine as I thought > > there was some interest in those oddball Grid machines. I have heard of one > > or two collectors who specialize in Grid Systems gear but don't recall who. > >The guy (as far as I know) to talk to about GRiD computers is Rob >Borsari, who brought close to 15 GRiD's (including a nice prototype) to >VCF 6.0. As luck would have it, John Ellenby, there to participate in the >Alto panel, was also the founder of GRiD :) Whoa, cool! A source of info! Except for you Sellam, my email has been dead silent on my request for any info on this GRiDLite Plus (same for the Panasonic CF-150B Business Partner I found at the same place :-( ) > > I still want to learn more about this model and especially repair it except > > I'm stymied with the dearth of any info accessible through web searches. > >I'll put you in touch with Rob. He can help you. Anybody mind if I give a brief report on what I find out from Mr. Borsari on the GRiDLite Plus (if anything)? -Chris NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 27 10:30:32 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: RK07 media References: Message-ID: <00f101c3e4f2$e2ee6a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message I got from an outside source: "Are you at all interested in RK07 cartridges/packs? Do you think anyone would be?" Contact me and I'll forward your requests. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 27 10:53:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Commodore 64/128 Computers for pickup in Concord, NH, USA Message-ID: Don has what seems to be a nice load of Commodore free for pickup from his home in Concord, New Hampshire. As always, please contact Don directly. Reply-to: don-w@jjtekonline.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:41:43 -0500 From: Don Wilson To: donate@vintage.org Subject: Commodore Computer I have a lot of software to go along with commodore C64' keyboards and 128" keyboards to go along with that I have 4 or 5 floppy disks, one IBM floppy disk, several battery packs, monitor. I also have several upgrades that I purchased one is the swift link, game cartridge and plenty of games. I have a multitude of program disks too. All in all the original cost of everything I have at that time cost me over $2000.00. I would be happy to donate everything, however I would prefer to have it picked up at my home. I will wait for a response before I give out my address, however I live in Concord, NH. Willie -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 27 11:53:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040127093108.02693a80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Christian Fandt wrote: > Ooops, In my attempt at trying to be somewhat brief in describing my > GRiDLite Plus 1040 I did not indicate to everybody that it had a regular > keyboard (83 keys). This is not a tablet computer (I've heard of GridPad; > is that what you're thinking of Sellam?). It looks very much like many Yes, the GRiD Pad. Those are cool. > typical laptops of the late 1980's except it's all in Johnny Cash Black > ;) I can email several digital images to those who may be interested in > seeing what the thing looks like. Just email me. Ah yes. By that time GRiDs no longer had the handsome magnesium alloy case but were plastic and not much different than whatever else was on the market at the time. Tandy re-badged them and sold them under their name as well. > Recall that I mentioned only one website, in German, which gave some > substantive info on my GRiDLite and that it mentioned only PenPoint, > Penwindows, PenRight as being the OSs that the thing used. Maybe the > website owner is incorrect although he also listed the thing having a touch > screen? He may have been mistaken. I've since learned that PenRight is an OS that Symbol uses/used on some of its handheld barcode scanners. > >The guy (as far as I know) to talk to about GRiD computers is Rob > >Borsari, who brought close to 15 GRiD's (including a nice prototype) to > >VCF 6.0. As luck would have it, John Ellenby, there to participate in the > >Alto panel, was also the founder of GRiD :) > > Whoa, cool! A source of info! Except for you Sellam, my email has been dead > silent on my request for any info on this GRiDLite Plus (same for the > Panasonic CF-150B Business Partner I found at the same place :-( ) I'm surprised, as GRiDs have generally been popular for collectors (especially the early models). I've never heard of the Panasonic CF-150B, though I would guess it's just a re-badged Casio or Radio Shack model. > Anybody mind if I give a brief report on what I find out from Mr. Borsari > on the GRiDLite Plus (if anything)? It certainly can't hurt! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 27 11:58:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Pretty good collection of computers for sale Message-ID: Whilst browsing, I came across this list of computers for sale in the UK: http://www.jcec.co.uk/Compsale.html There are a lot of gems there. The site says the systems will be auctioned off "over the next few months" so I don't know if this is old and stale or still on-going. The parent site seems interesting as well: Japanese Computer Emulation Centre http://www.jcec.co.uk The home page has a link to the seller's eBay auctions (which is invalid, so do a search on seller "j0nstringer") and it looks like he's been selling off quite a bit of classic micro stuff for the past several months. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Jan 27 12:13:58 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? References: Message-ID: <003601c3e501$559211b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> You can pick up a respectable G4 cheap, I bought a Quicksilver not long ago very low and just picked up a GB of memory for $150 and popped in a 60GB for $70 and a copy of OS X 10.2 I bought for $20 and the system is purring along VERY nicely. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:23 AM Subject: RE: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Curt vendel > > Sent: 27 January 2004 03:09 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > > Apparently the head of technology saw his pink slip flash before his eyes > > when he realized that a Mac OS on PC hardware would cause the > > elimination of > > Mac hardware and the project was scuttled internally... > > I wonder if that was a wise decision in hindsight. Discuss. *evil grin* :) > > > It would be cool to see that original code running on a PC today. > > Yep. I bet someone held onto a copy that's now sitting in the bottom of a > filing cabinet somewhere slowly becoming unreadable..... > > > Also it mentioned that while the OS did boot on a PC, the Chooser didn't > > work, nor did serial port access and/or appletalk and Applications did not > > work and would've had to have been ported over. > > Oh. Bummer. Still, these days since I can't afford a G4 or G5 I've got the > next best thing - ObjectBar, ObjectDock and WindowBlinds from Stardock! > > cheers > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Jan 27 12:15:13 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! References: <000901c3e34e$e8e74250$2201a8c0@finans><3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040127090844.04585008@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <003d01c3e501$81f1c7a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> I've got a spare Big Board II if anyone is interested in buying it or trading, I will post it up on to VCM with some pics Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:16 AM Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! > I owned a BigBoard in college, but gave it away when I moved from Champaign > to Boston. It is a pretty cool SBC with integrated single density floppy > controller and video. A friend (thanks Bob) gave me an old BigBoard which > he had laying around a while back and I started making it work again last > night. So far, the crystal circuit was dead (temporarily replaced with an > oscillator until new parts arrive), an address buffer was dead (purchased > a NOS 74LS241 off the shelf at the local electronics store, mounted on a > piece of cardboard which is all faded from age), the video drive XOR was > dead (replaced with new 74LS86 from my stock bins), and all the ICs needed > to be re-seated in their sockets. > > So far, I have the video section working and the board boots the system > monitor, displaying the output on the overly tiny 3" diagonal CRT, which > is the only monitor that survived my numerous moves over the years. I've > purchased a new-to-me monitor for use on this board, but this tiny one > will have to due until it arrives. > > The next step will be to attach a SSSD 8" floppy and if that works with > some scratch floppies, I will try to boot the CP/M system floppies that > I got from Don Maslin oh so long ago. > > I still have a couple of articles about modifying the BigBoard to use a > double density floppy drive. I may have to try that at some point in the > future. > > --tom > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 12:22:01 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Pretty good collection of computers for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 27 January 2004 17:58 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Pretty good collection of computers for sale > > Whilst browsing, I came across this list of computers for sale in the UK: > > http://www.jcec.co.uk/Compsale.html > > There are a lot of gems there. The site says the systems will be > auctioned off "over the next few months" so I don't know if this is old > and stale or still on-going. Dammit, he's got a pair of Sirius 1s....hasn't he posted here before? I know a Jon Stringer from somewhere but I can't find mention of his name in my mail archive....curses.... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 27 12:36:37 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! In-Reply-To: <003d01c3e501$81f1c7a0$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <000901c3e34e$e8e74250$2201a8c0@finans> <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040127090844.04585008@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127123615.04550008@mail.ubanproductions.com> Is the BigBoard II the same form factor as the BB I? --tom At 01:15 PM 1/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I've got a spare Big Board II if anyone is interested in buying it or >trading, I will post it up on to VCM with some pics > > > >Curt > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Uban" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:16 AM >Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! > > > > I owned a BigBoard in college, but gave it away when I moved from >Champaign > > to Boston. It is a pretty cool SBC with integrated single density floppy > > controller and video. A friend (thanks Bob) gave me an old BigBoard which > > he had laying around a while back and I started making it work again last > > night. So far, the crystal circuit was dead (temporarily replaced with an > > oscillator until new parts arrive), an address buffer was dead (purchased > > a NOS 74LS241 off the shelf at the local electronics store, mounted on a > > piece of cardboard which is all faded from age), the video drive XOR was > > dead (replaced with new 74LS86 from my stock bins), and all the ICs needed > > to be re-seated in their sockets. > > > > So far, I have the video section working and the board boots the system > > monitor, displaying the output on the overly tiny 3" diagonal CRT, which > > is the only monitor that survived my numerous moves over the years. I've > > purchased a new-to-me monitor for use on this board, but this tiny one > > will have to due until it arrives. > > > > The next step will be to attach a SSSD 8" floppy and if that works with > > some scratch floppies, I will try to boot the CP/M system floppies that > > I got from Don Maslin oh so long ago. > > > > I still have a couple of articles about modifying the BigBoard to use a > > double density floppy drive. I may have to try that at some point in the > > future. > > > > --tom > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 13:33:34 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Apple 'Star Trek'? In-Reply-To: <003601c3e501$559211b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Curt vendel > Sent: 27 January 2004 18:14 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Apple 'Star Trek'? > > > You can pick up a respectable G4 cheap, I bought a Quicksilver > not long ago > very low and just picked up a GB of memory for $150 and popped in > a 60GB for > $70 and a copy of OS X 10.2 I bought for $20 and the system is > purring along > VERY nicely. I'm supposed to be getting a Quicksilver but the current owner appears to have vanished.....I also still need to sell things to buy one :-/ cheers w From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Jan 27 12:56:30 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127123615.04550008@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <000901c3e34e$e8e74250$2201a8c0@finans> <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040127090844.04585008@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040127123615.04550008@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <4016B45E.80604@atarimuseum.com> As far as I know, yes. I can measure it for you. Curt Tom Uban wrote: > Is the BigBoard II the same form factor as the BB I? > > --tom > > At 01:15 PM 1/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> I've got a spare Big Board II if anyone is interested in buying it or >> trading, I will post it up on to VCM with some pics >> >> >> >> Curt >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Uban" >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:16 AM >> Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! >> >> >> > I owned a BigBoard in college, but gave it away when I moved from >> Champaign >> > to Boston. It is a pretty cool SBC with integrated single density >> floppy >> > controller and video. A friend (thanks Bob) gave me an old BigBoard >> which >> > he had laying around a while back and I started making it work >> again last >> > night. So far, the crystal circuit was dead (temporarily replaced >> with an >> > oscillator until new parts arrive), an address buffer was dead >> (purchased >> > a NOS 74LS241 off the shelf at the local electronics store, mounted >> on a >> > piece of cardboard which is all faded from age), the video drive >> XOR was >> > dead (replaced with new 74LS86 from my stock bins), and all the ICs >> needed >> > to be re-seated in their sockets. >> > >> > So far, I have the video section working and the board boots the >> system >> > monitor, displaying the output on the overly tiny 3" diagonal CRT, >> which >> > is the only monitor that survived my numerous moves over the years. >> I've >> > purchased a new-to-me monitor for use on this board, but this tiny one >> > will have to due until it arrives. >> > >> > The next step will be to attach a SSSD 8" floppy and if that works >> with >> > some scratch floppies, I will try to boot the CP/M system floppies >> that >> > I got from Don Maslin oh so long ago. >> > >> > I still have a couple of articles about modifying the BigBoard to >> use a >> > double density floppy drive. I may have to try that at some point >> in the >> > future. >> > >> > --tom >> > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Tue Jan 27 13:22:11 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: from Eelco Huininga at Jan "27, " 2004 "11:07:33" am Message-ID: <200401271922.MAA06870@atlantis.clogic-int.com> FWIW, I was using an 8-bit ISA MFM controller (the kind that shipped with the PC XT) in a 90Mhz Pentium equipped also with an NCR 53c810 based PCI SCSI controller. Worked with no problems in Linux 1.2.8. -- John Willis Coherent Logic Development willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jan 27 14:05:58 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c3e511$055ef5e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Oh yes. I know they had to put some clearance in for cables > between the back of the QBUS cards and the back cover, but > did they HAVE to use such savage edges on the plating? Even blunt edges will cut through flat ribbon cable, but the DEQNA/DELQA round cable was more of a challenge. Using the removable covers (the big ones) as frisbees is probably fun too :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From paulpenn at knology.net Tue Jan 27 14:16:28 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Wall Warts and Power Strips References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com><1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200> <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <002501c3e512$74472ee0$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Doc Shipley" wrote: > Half the jacks in my power strips are wasted because the > wall-warts take up 3 slots. I think I'll solder cords on all of 'em. This is a solved problem: Cyberguys sells something they call a "liberator", actually a one foot extension cord, to take care of this for $1.79. See: http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=121+2550 Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 27 14:27:49 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! In-Reply-To: <4016B45E.80604@atarimuseum.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127123615.04550008@mail.ubanproductions.com> <000901c3e34e$e8e74250$2201a8c0@finans> <3.0.6.32.20040125085438.00881590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040127090844.04585008@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040127123615.04550008@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127142637.046a12e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> The BB I is: 8.5"x13.75", the same size as an 8" disk drive. I've heard of, but never seen and know nothing about the BB II. I might be interested in it... --tom At 01:56 PM 1/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: >As far as I know, yes. > >I can measure it for you. > > >Curt > > >Tom Uban wrote: > >>Is the BigBoard II the same form factor as the BB I? >> >>--tom >> >>At 01:15 PM 1/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>I've got a spare Big Board II if anyone is interested in buying it or >>>trading, I will post it up on to VCM with some pics >>> >>> >>> >>>Curt >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Tom Uban" >>>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >>> >>>Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:16 AM >>>Subject: Ferguson BigBoard revived! >>> >>> >>> > I owned a BigBoard in college, but gave it away when I moved from >>>Champaign >>> > to Boston. It is a pretty cool SBC with integrated single density floppy >>> > controller and video. A friend (thanks Bob) gave me an old BigBoard which >>> > he had laying around a while back and I started making it work again last >>> > night. So far, the crystal circuit was dead (temporarily replaced with an >>> > oscillator until new parts arrive), an address buffer was dead (purchased >>> > a NOS 74LS241 off the shelf at the local electronics store, mounted on a >>> > piece of cardboard which is all faded from age), the video drive XOR was >>> > dead (replaced with new 74LS86 from my stock bins), and all the ICs >>> needed >>> > to be re-seated in their sockets. >>> > >>> > So far, I have the video section working and the board boots the system >>> > monitor, displaying the output on the overly tiny 3" diagonal CRT, which >>> > is the only monitor that survived my numerous moves over the years. I've >>> > purchased a new-to-me monitor for use on this board, but this tiny one >>> > will have to due until it arrives. >>> > >>> > The next step will be to attach a SSSD 8" floppy and if that works with >>> > some scratch floppies, I will try to boot the CP/M system floppies that >>> > I got from Don Maslin oh so long ago. >>> > >>> > I still have a couple of articles about modifying the BigBoard to use a >>> > double density floppy drive. I may have to try that at some point in the >>> > future. >>> > >>> > --tom >>> > >> >> > >-- > > >Curt Vendel & Karl Morris >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >The Atari Museum >http://www.atarimuseum.com > >The Atari Explorer >http://www.atari-explorer.com > > > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jan 27 14:34:47 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: digital finds Message-ID: <00c901c3e515$02c4c630$a0406b43@66067007> Got a digital MicroVAX 11, TU80 type unit, PDP 11/23 with 2 RL02's, and 59 manuals From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Jan 27 15:22:40 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: digital finds In-Reply-To: Message from "Keys" of "Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:34:47 CST." <00c901c3e515$02c4c630$a0406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <200401272122.i0RLMeE03139@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Keys" wrote: >Got a digital MicroVAX 11, TU80 type unit, PDP 11/23 with 2 RL02's, and 59 >manuals Care to share? :-) I could use an 11/23 with an RL02... -brad From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 27 15:37:21 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: WD1771 and WD179X data sheets? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127152134.046d2e18@mail.ubanproductions.com> Does someone have a scan of the Western Digital 1771 and 179X data sheets? I did not see them on Al's site. --tnx --tom From aek at spies.com Tue Jan 27 15:50:11 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: WD1771 and WD179X data sheets? Message-ID: <200401272150.i0RLoBtv020471@spies.com> www.bitsavers.org/pdf/westernDigital/_dataBooks part 1 of the '84 storage products book From aek at spies.com Tue Jan 27 15:54:11 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Furgusson BigBoard revived! Message-ID: <200401272154.i0RLsBSa021119@spies.com> > I've heard of, but never seen and know nothing about the BB II. -- Has a double density floppy, SASI interface, and STD bus connector I have the docs scanned, will try to get them on line for you. I may have BB I docs as well. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Jan 27 15:48:58 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Commodore 64/128 Computers for pickup in Concord, NH, USA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1175.65.123.179.112.1075240138.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > > Don has what seems to be a nice load of Commodore free for pickup from his > home in Concord, New Hampshire. > > As always, please contact Don directly. > > Reply-to: don-w@jjtekonline.net Why are all of these deals a gazillion miles from me? I thought living in the Midwest I'd be 'central' to everything/everyone. All seriousness aside, I would like to get a couple 1571 drives, maybe a 1581 if I didn't have to pay a ransom to UPS to get it here. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From n2hqc at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 15:54:32 2004 From: n2hqc at earthlink.net (Jack Mooney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? Message-ID: -----Original Message----- >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:12:06 -0000 >From: "Witchy" >Subject: RE: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson >> Sent: 26 January 2004 23:31 >> where did that start? I'm sure I remember seeing the "cow orker" typo in >> usenet postings about ten years ago, but maybe it has a history far >> older than that... >> > >I'm sure it's been in common parlance for longer >than this, but my other online home at www.b3ta.com >(currently offline for upgrades) coined the term >'orking' for a picture of an animal that had its nose >too close to the camera lens, and from that the 'new' >term of a cow-orker was born, but from sniffing around >USENET archives it seems it's been around for longer >than the last couple of years :) > >cheers Hello, My first try on this list. Hope this works. :) I recall using cow-orker as early as my FIDOnet days (up til 1993). It seems to go back as far as the late 80's. I just loked around and found this URL... Excerpts from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CowOrker ------------------ The earliest reference in GoogleGroups is from a signature file posted to alt.sca on June 27, 1989... The same author used it in his signature file for posts to alt.sca through August 11, 1989... -------------------------------- From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 27 16:04:07 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: VAX test program Message-ID: <0401272204.AA23528@ivan.Harhan.ORG> I have written a VAX test program that probes various intricate aspects of the VAX that is running on in the areas that are defined as implementation-dependent or UNPREDICTABLE by VARM. It runs in user mode under Berkeley UNIX. Any flavor of Berkeley VAX UNIX should do, including Ultrix, although I can't make any guarantees about NetBSD as it has strayed so far from Berkeley UNIX that it has no business running on a VAX really. So if you have always wondered how exactly does your VAX handle something that VARM lists as UNPREDICTABLE, and you have Berkeley UNIX running, this program will tell you. The source is available on my FTP site at: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/VAX/vaxtest/vaxtest-1.0.tar.Z I have run it on my CVAXen and the output is in the same directory on the FTP site in file results.cvax. I will run it on a MicroVAX II in a couple of weeks (when I put one together for testing) and on Rigel in a few months (when I port 4.3BSD-Quasijarus to it). I have no other VAX implementations to test on, and I solicit input from the community. If you have a VAX on which you can run this program (i.e., one that runs any version of Berkeley UNIX or Ultrix), please run it and post or send me the output. I need to determine the characteristics and quirks of as many VAX implementations as possible. (If you are wondering why, this has to do with my project of designing and building a new VAX. Yes, I know that I simply need to follow the VAX spec and strictly speaking I don't need to look at any other implementations, but there is also the real world.) MS From msg at waste.org Mon Jan 26 19:22:18 2004 From: msg at waste.org (Infra) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: HP Basic/Workstation 300 'SYSTM' file needed Message-ID: Greetings: In attempting to salvage some files from an HPIB drive which is ailing, I installed RMB Kermit to do serial xfers (long files > LIF floppy capacity) however it needs Basic 6.x and we've got 4.0. Would a kind soul please send us the 6.0 system file (it can be converted to an MSDOS file using the 'lifutil' utility (use Binary/DFS mode) so we can fire up kermit and rescue the data before the drive dies? ('lifutil.exe' is available at ftp://ftp.cybertheque.org/pub/lifutils) All help much appreciated. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 22:22:55 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Funny... I powered a very old typewriter with more than 50V over the stated rating. The rating for the Amps matched EXACTLY and it ran like a dream until recently when some water got into the PSU, BTW this is a WELL regulated unit... refusing to be off by more than half a volt. I did the same with a more recent device (a digital thermostat used to control certain devices in my bedroom)... and recently that device fried when I had to get a new PSU. The power rating was still 50V over rating and I got one that was just a little over the rated amps (I forgot to check) and plugged it in... when I turned it on all hell broke loose. What do you have to say to that? *mumbles* buncha smartass know-it-alls... why in my day... *continues inane rambling* Lyos Gemini Norezel John Rollins wrote: Perhaps people need a DMM so they can check polarity, or maybe get glasses to read the markings? OMG, this is the funniest thread I've read in a while. True story: My sister last year was trying to plug in a computer modem after moving some things around. I think the input is 9V DC, well she grabbed the cord from the HP inkjet that happened to be the same size, but pumps out *24V*! All of a sudden we hear screaming and she comes running down the stairs screaming "THE MODEM IS SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Now THAT is funny. Don't ask me how, but she didn't fry the modem(not totally anyhow, it still powers up OK). -- ------------ John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net ------------ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 22:37:03 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <40158669.2060405@srv.net> Message-ID: <20040127043703.5225.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Nope... I checked this it was DC like it needed. I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From kla at helios.augustana.edu Tue Jan 27 06:23:46 2004 From: kla at helios.augustana.edu (Kevin L. Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Zenith Z150 complete system available Message-ID: After a long hiatus from ClassicCmp (back before the split to two lists), I'm back for awhile. And I think I'm ready to part with a system I've had since the mid-80s, assuming there is someone interested. I have a complete, original-owner Zenith Z150 (PC compatible) system. Alas, the system is not running (the last time I tried, it was stopping on the CPU POST test). I bought this when I was in graduate school and used it to both write the initial FORTRAN code for my computer model, and to write my doctoral dissertation. This system includes the original keyboard and the single-color (green) CGA monitor. Purchased with two 5-1/4-inch floppy drives and a single 320 Kbyte memory card. After-market mods included adding a 20-Mbyte MFM-RLL hard drive (below the diskette drives, so both are still there), the NEC V20 (or was that V30) CPU replacement, and the MR-150 (?) memory mod that let you replace the five banks of 64K chips with 256K chips and get full memory (640Kbyte, plus a bank below the video memory) and a 512Kbyte ram disk (bank-switched into place). Software (with diskettes and docs), much of it rebadged for Zenith, but also some MS-direct upgrades, includes DOS (various versions), diagnostics, MS FORTRAN (couple of versions), MS Word (DOS versions 1.x up to 5.x), etc. I've hung onto this for both sentimental reasons and because I didn't what a scrapper (here or in China) get it. I probably even have all the original paperwork if I look in the right box. At this point I'd rather not part-out the system, and would rather find an interested collector (preferably in the Midwest or local as I'd rather not ship, unless the price is right - I'm in Dubuque, Iowa). I recall a member of this list several years ago saying he had a bunch of replacement boards for the Z150, and so it could be made to be working again. I'm not crazy...I just would rather not see the waste (and my wife is tired of me storing and moving this system for all the years that I have). And I'd rather focus my attention on other types/flavors of computers right now. Write me if you are interested (with offers and trades). Now back to your regular programming on DEC PDP-8's, 11's, etc., which I need to get caught up on. Cheers/73, Kevin Anderson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geographer/GIS Analyst, Dubuque Iowa kla (at ) helios (dot) augustana (dot) edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Jan 27 07:01:07 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine In-Reply-To: <002101c3e4d1$024303f0$6501a8c0@barton> References: <002101c3e4d1$024303f0$6501a8c0@barton> Message-ID: <1075207746.24734.6.camel@pluto> On Tue, 2004-01-27 at 12:27, Bill Girnius wrote: > Other than disabling the on board controllers, if memory serves me > correctly, these boards used an onboard bios to insert the code to fool the > system to boot to these devices. You very likely need to discover what base > address the card loads at and make sure that area is reserved in the BIOS as > in use so nothing is shadowed there. Cards of this era typically used c0000 > or 00000 for their boot code. THe caused problems on newer video cards as > they wanted the same base IO address space. You could probably just pull the boot ROM. I'm not sure how Linux handles MFM and RLL controllers, because I haven't used one for 10 years or so, but I do know it supports them. > So basically the IRQ needs to be free, the controller base address needs to > be free, (I.E. disabling the IDE controller) and the base memory address for > the onboard bios needs to be available, not only in the CMOS, but also > ensure no other devices are using it. You may have to dig in your parts bin > to find an older video card that dosn't grab so many addresses, and possibly > reconfigure the jumpers on your legacy disk controller to change it base > address to an unused area. > Perhaps you could modify the card to map addresses somewhere else. Gordon. From dcorbin at telular.com Tue Jan 27 11:51:20 2004 From: dcorbin at telular.com (David Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: RK07 media Message-ID: quite possibly interested..... Please forward any additional information to me : dvcorbin@optonline.net -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:31 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RK07 media Message I got from an outside source: "Are you at all interested in RK07 cartridges/packs? Do you think anyone would be?" Contact me and I'll forward your requests. John A. From aek at spies.com Tue Jan 27 16:12:53 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) Message-ID: <200401272212.i0RMCrfL024002@spies.com> guess I am looking for a tape drive that will hook to a pc with controller ready to go turnkey... any suggestions? -- HP 88780 with 800bpi option (you didn't say if they are 800 or 1600) and scsi intf. or an M4 Data 9914. Or just fedex 'em up here an I can read them for you. Have you figured out any more about the Univac tapes that were donated? From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 27 16:26:32 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: WD1771 and WD179X data sheets? In-Reply-To: <200401272150.i0RLoBtv020471@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127161045.0451d480@mail.ubanproductions.com> Thanks Al, I guess that I didn't look hard enough. I checked the first data book and stoped. --tom At 01:50 PM 1/27/2004 -0800, you wrote: >www.bitsavers.org/pdf/westernDigital/_dataBooks > >part 1 of the '84 storage products book From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 27 16:38:13 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040127223108.GF1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jack Mooney, from writings of Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 04:54:32PM -0500: > I recall using cow-orker as early as my FIDOnet days (up til 1993). > It seems to go back as far as the late 80's. I just loked around and Well, one thing about cow-orkers seems certain: some cow-orkers are obnoxious enough that they ought not be trusted around cows, other livestock, women, children, and various smaller animals. I don't know what it means to ork a cow (of either the bovine or human variety), and I don't want to know, but somehow it doesn't sound at all pleasant. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Jan 27 16:26:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Commodore 64/128 Computers for pickup in Concord, NH, USA References: <1175.65.123.179.112.1075240138.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <010701c3e524$afd65af0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 64/128 Computers for pickup in Concord, NH, USA > > > > Don has what seems to be a nice load of Commodore free for pickup from his > > home in Concord, New Hampshire. > > > > As always, please contact Don directly. > > > > Reply-to: don-w@jjtekonline.net > > > Why are all of these deals a gazillion miles from me? I thought living in > the Midwest I'd be 'central' to everything/everyone. > > All seriousness aside, I would like to get a couple 1571 drives, maybe a > 1581 if I didn't have to pay a ransom to UPS to get it here. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > 1581 drives always sell for $50 or more, even though there was little or no software sold on 3.5" dd disks. I could use another 1571 drive but wont go out of my way to find one. I was lucky enough to get 500 new DD 5.25 disks from a duplicator dumping obsolete inventory a year or 2 ago so I am set (have 500 tyvec sleeves from a list member and a disk notcher to use both sides of the floppy in my C64's 1541 drives). From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 27 16:28:24 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Furgusson BigBoard revived! In-Reply-To: <200401272154.i0RLsBSa021119@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040127162701.046aacb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 01:54 PM 1/27/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > >I've heard of, but never seen and know nothing about the BB II. > >-- > >Has a double density floppy, SASI interface, and STD bus connector > >I have the docs scanned, will try to get them on line for you. I may >have BB I docs as well. The docs would be great, thanks again! My memory must be fading, but I don't recall that there were many docs other than the one page sales brochure and the schematics for the BB I. If you have something more... --tom From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 27 16:40:27 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: Wall Warts and Power Strips In-Reply-To: <002501c3e512$74472ee0$6401a8c0@knology.net> References: <0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <002501c3e512$74472ee0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <20040127223322.GG1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Paul Pennington, from writings of Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 03:16:28PM -0500: > This is a solved problem: Cyberguys sells something they call a > "liberator", actually a one foot extension cord, to take care of this for > $1.79. That's not necessarily a good idea when the power strip is attached to a wall or shelving and well over a foot away from a flat surface. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From kabuki_pheonix at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 27 09:24:18 2004 From: kabuki_pheonix at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tedsui=20Mackashima?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:54 2005 Subject: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-September/005891.html Message-ID: <20040127152418.71137.qmail@web25004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> this may be of use http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781419109&category=4193 --------------------------------- BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save ?80 From aek at spies.com Tue Jan 27 16:40:53 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Furgusson BigBoard revived! Message-ID: <200401272240.i0RMerVh028491@spies.com> I don't recall that there were many docs other than the one page sales brochure and the schematics for the BB I. -- I checked and what I have is for the BB II I think the original Xerox 820 board was VERY similar to the BB I though so those docs may help. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jan 27 16:41:09 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040127043703.5225.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did you check for interior or exterior positive? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lyos Norezel Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:37 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Voltage & Current.. Nope... I checked this it was DC like it needed. I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 27 16:53:09 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: new thing to be wary of. References: <20040126051521.83734.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com><1075145568.1622.31.camel@dhcp-250200><0409F94D-5043-11D8-BB4E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <002501c3e512$74472ee0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <005401c3e528$56092bc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> FYI There is another binary file attached Spammer/Wormer out there. This traffic is large. Personally I am getting about 3x the old max. number of viral emails due to it. details: "Mydoom|Novarg", was detected nationally yesterday. jea From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 27 17:06:34 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. Message-ID: <200401272306.PAA25401@clulw009.amd.com> And, you checked the polarity? Dwight >From: "Lyos Norezel" > >Nope... I checked this it was DC like it needed. > >I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original >author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. >That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. > From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Jan 27 17:21:31 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 References: <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004b01c3e52c$5ee39240$0300a8c0@look.ca> I remember when I bought my first 'real' computer, an IBM 486SX-33, it had gold ram in it and I subsequently bought four megs of the same ram for something like $100.00. Somehow I had the computer working with 7 megs of ram and it seemed much faster than the four I originally got it with. Anyway, there was a discussion about why only gold ram (of course I mean ram that uses gold to coat the pins that fit in the slots) should be used in certain types of computers as opposed to the normal ram, which was lead or something like that. I did a search then and this was long before Google and came up with the concept that gold coated ram would 'heal' itself after the small teeth on the connectors grabbed it while the more normal ram let oxidants in which would, in time, ruin the chip. Now I am wondering if the gold ram connectors had teeth and the regular ram connectors didn't. To make a short story long, I sold the chips for exactly the same price I paid for them a year or so later to a place that bought ram for resale. I assume the guy wanted them for printers or something. He was astonished to see the gold connectors and after paying me the 100 bucks asked me if I had any more! At that time ram was far less than what I had paid for the two chips and I guess the premium was for the gold. I bet everyone will be scrambling around looking for gold ram over the next few days. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 > &sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1> > > To hell collecting computers! We should rip them apart for the chips! > > > > Joe > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 17:28:26 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: MicroVAX I update In-Reply-To: <002e01c3e511$055ef5e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 27 January 2004 20:06 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: MicroVAX I update > > Even blunt edges will cut through flat ribbon cable, but > the DEQNA/DELQA round cable was more of a challenge. > > Using the removable covers (the big ones) as frisbees > is probably fun too :-) It is, just make sure they don't get near people/pets/glass! I found a DEQNA in my cards collection yesterday whilst scrounging for an RQDX1, but sadly no cab kit. Bah. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 17:36:11 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jack Mooney > Sent: 27 January 2004 21:55 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > > My first try on this list. Hope this works. :) > > I recall using cow-orker as early as my FIDOnet days (up til 1993). > It seems to go back as far as the late 80's. I just loked around and > found this URL... > > Excerpts from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CowOrker Ta for that! It's hopefully clearing things up for more people than you might care to think about :) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 27 18:03:03 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040127223108.GF1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 27 January 2004 22:31 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > > Well, one thing about cow-orkers seems certain: some cow-orkers are > obnoxious enough that they ought not be trusted around cows, other > livestock, women, children, and various smaller animals. I don't know > what it means to ork a cow (of either the bovine or human variety), > and I don't want to know, but somehow it doesn't sound at all > pleasant. Us inhabitants of the interweb messageboard known as www.b3ta.com adopted orking as 'an animal with its nose too close to the camera lens', hence: http://vorbis.demon.co.uk/dogork.jpg http://vorbis.demon.co.uk/collieork.jpg Thereafter we came up with 'cow-orker', not knowing it was already in existence..... cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 27 18:14:30 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040128000725.GH1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Lyos Norezel, from writings of Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 08:22:55PM -0800: > stated rating. The rating for the Amps matched EXACTLY and it ran > like a dream until recently when some water got into the PSU, BTW [...] > recently that device fried when I had to get a new PSU. The power > rating was still 50V over rating and I got one that was just a > little over the rated amps (I forgot to check) and plugged it > in... when I turned it on all hell broke loose. What do you have to Something tells me that this person's posted ideas about voltage and current are either trolls or additional proof that not all (just a very large percentage) of the nuts that fall out of trees end up in Washington, D.C... -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Jan 27 18:07:51 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200401271907.51998.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 26 January 2004 23:22, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Funny... I powered a very old typewriter with more than 50V over the > stated rating. The rating for the Amps matched EXACTLY and it ran AAAAHHH!!! And just when I thought this thread was over. :( Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jan 27 18:32:54 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: interesting finds: Datapoint 2400 for HP 1000? References: <3.0.6.32.20040119200921.00852100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40170336.1080401@tiac.net> Probably connects to a 12566 BACI board. The pin-out for this cable is available in the BACI manual on Al's site, check this against what you have. Joe R. wrote: > I was digging through a bunch of cables today and found a DataPoint 2400 >MODEM with the cables still attached. The cables look like they're for an >HP 1000. The hoods on the far end said HP (something)(something)618. I've >looked and tried to figure out what card that might be but didn't find >anything. Asnybody know what card that is? Anybody know anything about the >DataPoint 2400 MODEM? I didn't see a manufacturer's name but it has the >Bell symbol on it. > > Joe > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 27 18:51:12 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040127164801.I13252@newshell.lmi.net> > Funny... I powered a very old typewriter with more than 50V over the > stated rating. You are using WALL WARTS that are over 50V????? > The rating for the Amps matched EXACTLY and it ran like a > dream until recently when some water got into the PSU, Hardly any wall warts are rated for submersible use! In the future, don't put water into them. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 27 19:07:12 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: References: <20040127223108.GF1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040128010006.GI1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 12:03:03AM -0000: > Us inhabitants of the interweb messageboard known as www.b3ta.com adopted > orking as 'an animal with its nose too close to the camera lens', hence: [...] > Thereafter we came up with 'cow-orker', not knowing it was already in > existence..... Two definitions for the same word sounds entirely reasonable. After all, many years ago, a hacker was someone who made hoes, well before people using computers began calling themselves hackers. Still, I suspect that a cow-orker who works in some Dilbertesqe corporate, or governmental, office environment is much less safer for most people and non-human animals to be around than a four-legged orker meeting your definition, whose only bad habit may be sticking its nose into camera lenses. Of course, it appears that there is, of course, some similarity between the two definitions, as cow-orkers do get up the noses of others... so, orking, in general, apparently has something to do with noses. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 27 19:13:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <10401270106.ZM21447@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3e67a73e162b.3e162b3e67a7@optonline.net> <10401262032.ZM20906@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <40158669.2060405@srv.net> <10401270106.ZM21447@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1075251675.2822.1.camel@dhcp-250189> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 17:06, Pete Turnbull wrote: > That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. > > This is a non-sequitur :-) I was replying to David Corbin's problem, > not the phone with smoke signalling. You're all wrong wrong wrong! He let the smoke OUT of the chips, that's why they stopped working. Everything is OK but just don't let the smoke out! (Takes double-dose Xanax and calls doctor). From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 27 19:06:08 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040128010006.GI1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040127223108.GF1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040128010006.GI1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040127170516.B13252@newshell.lmi.net> > get up the noses of others... so, orking, in general, apparently has > something to do with noses. D'ya mean that it's NOT sexual?? From tomj at wps.com Tue Jan 27 19:27:10 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 In-Reply-To: <004b01c3e52c$5ee39240$0300a8c0@look.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <004b01c3e52c$5ee39240$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <1075252488.2827.8.camel@dhcp-250189> I'm sorry, but just because a lot of people believe a thing doesn't mean it's true. (Unless you mean you can get the other believer(s) to pay more :-) The 1101's with gold tops are another thing entirely, (possibly) extremely old, hence 'interesting'. Gold doesn't oxidize quickly, and is a better conductor, and will likely improve reliability of connectors under adverse conditions (like humidity, insufficient pressure, etc) but it makes nothing 'go faster'. Tin/lead or other platings work fine as long as you keep the physical environment in the computer OK. On Tue, 2004-01-27 at 15:21, Brian Mahoney wrote: > I remember when I bought my first 'real' computer, an IBM 486SX-33, it had > gold ram in it and I subsequently bought four megs of the same ram for > something like $100.00. Somehow I had the computer working with 7 megs of > ram and it seemed much faster than the four I originally got it with. > Anyway, there was a discussion about why only gold ram (of course I mean ram > that uses gold to coat the pins that fit in the slots) should be used in > certain types of computers as opposed to the normal ram, which was lead or > something like that. I did a search then and this was long before Google and > came up with the concept that gold coated ram would 'heal' itself after the > small teeth on the connectors grabbed it while the more normal ram let > oxidants in which would, in time, ruin the chip. Now I am wondering if the > gold ram connectors had teeth and the regular ram connectors didn't. > To make a short story long, I sold the chips for exactly the same price I > paid for them a year or so later to a place that bought ram for resale. I > assume the guy wanted them for printers or something. He was astonished to > see the gold connectors and after paying me the 100 bucks asked me if I had > any more! At that time ram was far less than what I had paid for the two > chips and I guess the premium was for the gold. > I bet everyone will be scrambling around looking for gold ram over the next > few days. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe R." > To: > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:14 PM > Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 > > > > > > &sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1> > > > > To hell collecting computers! We should rip them apart for the chips! > > > > > > > > Joe > > From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jan 27 19:21:09 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay References: Message-ID: <40170E85.1030604@tiac.net> I've still got an Imsai available at a much more reasonable price! Complete with dual 8-inch floppies, I've posted it here before and had some interested people but no one with cash yet. David V. Corbin wrote: >Even more amazing is that there is already a $1500 bid on the IMSAI (which >has not met the reserve!) > >Going to be very curious to see if this does sell (if re-listed), and at >what price..... > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Keys >Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:00 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp >Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay > > >Check out the Brainiac K-30 for almost $200 I got one last year on eBay for >under $25 >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781740056 > >Check out the IMSAI >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2780544749 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 27 19:23:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040127202333.008a9c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:22 PM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote: >Funny... I powered a very old typewriter with more than 50V over the stated rating. The rating for the Amps matched EXACTLY FYI. The Amp rating on most devices is misleading. It is the MAXIMUM amperage that the device will draw (under heavy load, startup conditions, temperature extremes, etc). Most devices don't draw anywhere near the stated amperage under normal conditions. Yes, you can increase the voltage and the current will increase but you're probably playing havoc with the life of the device since the power (and heat) is going up as the SQUARE (x^2) of the increase in voltage. If you're increasing the voltage 50% to cause a 50% increase in current then you're more than doubling the amount (225%) of energy into the device. Joe >and it ran like a dream until recently when some water got into the PSU, BTW this is a WELL regulated unit... refusing to >be off by more than half a volt. I did the same with a more recent device (a digital thermostat used to control certain >devices in my bedroom)... and recently that device fried when I had to get a new PSU. The power rating was still 50V over >rating and I got one that was just a little over the rated amps (I forgot to check) and plugged it in... when I turned it >on all hell broke loose. What do you have to say to that? *mumbles* buncha smartass know-it-alls... why in my day... >*continues inane rambling* >Lyos Gemini Norezel > >John Rollins wrote: >Perhaps people need a DMM so they can check polarity, or maybe get >glasses to read the markings? >OMG, this is the funniest thread I've read in a while. > >True story: My sister last year was trying to plug in a computer >modem after moving some things around. I think the input is 9V DC, >well she grabbed the cord from the HP inkjet that happened to be the >same size, but pumps out *24V*! All of a sudden we hear screaming and >she comes running down the stairs screaming "THE MODEM IS >SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Now THAT is funny. Don't ask me how, but >she didn't fry the modem(not totally anyhow, it still powers up OK). >-- >------------ >John Rollins | KD7BCY | http://www.kd7bcy.com >DALnet #Apollo_Domain | Ham-Mac mailing list http://mailman.qth.net >------------ > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jan 27 19:38:55 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay In-Reply-To: <40170E85.1030604@tiac.net> Message-ID: Bob, Please contact me off list regarding the IMSAI. Thanks. David dvcorbin@optonline.net -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:21 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay I've still got an Imsai available at a much more reasonable price! Complete with dual 8-inch floppies, I've posted it here before and had some interested people but no one with cash yet. David V. Corbin wrote: >Even more amazing is that there is already a $1500 bid on the IMSAI (which >has not met the reserve!) > >Going to be very curious to see if this does sell (if re-listed), and at >what price..... > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Keys >Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:00 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp >Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay > > >Check out the Brainiac K-30 for almost $200 I got one last year on eBay for >under $25 >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2781740056 > >Check out the IMSAI >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2780544749 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 27 19:42:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 In-Reply-To: <1075252488.2827.8.camel@dhcp-250189> References: <004b01c3e52c$5ee39240$0300a8c0@look.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <004b01c3e52c$5ee39240$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040127204218.0087f9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm sure that the reason that his computer ran faster was because of the added RAM (7Mb vs 4 Mb) and not because of the gold on the ICs. Joe At 05:14 PM 1/27/04 -0800, Tom wrote: >I'm sorry, but just because a lot of people believe a thing doesn't mean >it's true. (Unless you mean you can get the other believer(s) to pay >more :-) > >The 1101's with gold tops are another thing entirely, (possibly) >extremely old, hence 'interesting'. Gold doesn't oxidize quickly, and is >a better conductor, and will likely improve reliability of connectors >under adverse conditions (like humidity, insufficient pressure, etc) but >it makes nothing 'go faster'. Tin/lead or other platings work fine as >long as you keep the physical environment in the computer OK. > > >On Tue, 2004-01-27 at 15:21, Brian Mahoney wrote: >> I remember when I bought my first 'real' computer, an IBM 486SX-33, it had >> gold ram in it and I subsequently bought four megs of the same ram for >> something like $100.00. Somehow I had the computer working with 7 megs of >> ram and it seemed much faster than the four I originally got it with. >> Anyway, there was a discussion about why only gold ram (of course I mean ram >> that uses gold to coat the pins that fit in the slots) should be used in >> certain types of computers as opposed to the normal ram, which was lead or >> something like that. I did a search then and this was long before Google and >> came up with the concept that gold coated ram would 'heal' itself after the >> small teeth on the connectors grabbed it while the more normal ram let >> oxidants in which would, in time, ruin the chip. Now I am wondering if the >> gold ram connectors had teeth and the regular ram connectors didn't. >> To make a short story long, I sold the chips for exactly the same price I >> paid for them a year or so later to a place that bought ram for resale. I >> assume the guy wanted them for printers or something. He was astonished to >> see the gold connectors and after paying me the 100 bucks asked me if I had >> any more! At that time ram was far less than what I had paid for the two >> chips and I guess the premium was for the gold. >> I bet everyone will be scrambling around looking for gold ram over the next >> few days. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe R." >> To: >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:14 PM >> Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 >> >> >> > >> > > &sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1> >> > >> > To hell collecting computers! We should rip them apart for the chips! >> > >> > >> > >> > Joe >> > > From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jan 27 20:03:13 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <20040127170516.B13252@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040127223108.GF1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040128010006.GI1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040127170516.B13252@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040128015609.GJ1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred Cisin, from writings of Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 05:06:08PM -0800: > > get up the noses of others... so, orking, in general, apparently has > > something to do with noses. > > D'ya mean that it's NOT sexual?? Is it not possible that, given the warped minds of some cow-orkers, getting up someone's nose may provide them with some peculiar form of sexual satisfaction? After all, can they not be quite strange? Disclaimer: I make no claim to being an authority on cow-orkers, particularly since I've been away from them for nearly a few years. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 27 21:19:38 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: gray wall docs free in florida (fwd) Message-ID: I noticed this in comp.os.vms and thought someone here might be interested. I'll leave you to decipher the guy's real e-mail address. -brian. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:27:24 +0000 (UTC) >From: John Comeau Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: Re: gray wall docs free in florida John Comeau wrote: > Got VAX/VMS docs for 5.0 to give away. But only if you pick up, in > South Florida; I won't be doing any packing or lifting, no matter > how much you might be willing to pay. OK, guess they're headed for the dumpster... too bad. -- jcomeau@org.risp SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 27 21:22:53 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) References: Message-ID: <004001c3e54e$226ffc00$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Mike; I posted the benchmark times from my real 2000/Access system.... care to share the benchmark times from SIMH on the same programs? Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 27 21:26:20 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) References: <005301c3e4a0$41c8e110$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <007501c3e54f$3405d380$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Ed; Send me your tapes and I'll read them. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed sharpe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:38 AM Subject: Re: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) > interesting thing we had on the access system two things actually... one was > a bbs with 100 message boards, mail system and vote and a multi user chat > that worked through writing and reading a disc file...... > > the other was a giant space war game that had the universe held in a > matrix in a disc file.... before I got lock feet for the 2883 we would have > to come in a kick it back into place after the local kids spent all nite > playing the game.... I wonder if my old tapes will still load.. guess I am > looking for a tape drive that will hook to a pc with controller ready to go > turnkey... any suggestions? > > ed sharpe archivist for smecc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Gemeny" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:09 PM > Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) > > > > > > Jay wrote: > > >To my knowledge the only way SIMH might do this is if you ran multiple > > >copies of SIMH, perhaps in separate windows. And even then, not sure it > > >would let you cross connect cables between the systems. But I may be > wrong > > >about this. > > > > Yep, that?s the way the Access Zip launches SIMH to run Access or ?F?. The > two > > occurrences of SIMH are connected with a pair of sockets. > > > > Sure, we know it?s inefficient. But just now, it?s the only way to run ?F? > or Access, > > without real hardware, and, they both do run under simulation, IOP and > all! > > > > I had a guest come over this past weekend with a set of tapes and we were > able > > to read and reload his tapes into a running simulation. All in all, we > spent 9 hours > > at it, and 2 of those were spent breaking into his system. > > > > What we ended up doing was to ?RESTORE? a $HELLO from some other HIBE > > tape in order to get past his ridiculously tight security. We had a blast > banging > > our heads together on it, but I want to let him tell that story. > > > > The bottom line is that Access IS ALIVE under simulation!!!! > > > > It only gets better from here? Take the ZIP for a spin! > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 27 17:12:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040127043703.5225.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> from "Lyos Norezel" at Jan 26, 4 08:37:03 pm Message-ID: > > Nope... I checked this it was DC like it needed. Did you alsso check the polarity? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 27 17:19:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: New Classic Finds and etc. (Long) In-Reply-To: <20040127042255.33435.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> from "Lyos Norezel" at Jan 26, 4 08:22:55 pm Message-ID: Could you please get your mailer to (a) put in newlines after 72 chracters and (b) to use some sensible quoting convention. It's hard to follow who says what here! > > Funny... I powered a very old typewriter with more than 50V over the > stated rating. The rating for the Amps matched EXACTLY and it ran like a A meaningless statement!. What was the correct voltage? If it was, say, 200V, then probably 250V would have been OK. If it was, say, 12V, I would be very supprised if 62V did no damage. And what is an 'old typewriter'. Electromechanical? Such devices tend to be a lot more tolerant of overvoltage than modern electronics. > dream until recently when some water got into the PSU, BTW this is a > WELL regulated unit... refusing to be off by more than half a volt. I > did the same with a more recent device (a digital thermostat used to > control certain devices in my bedroom)... and recently that device fried > when I had to get a new PSU. The power rating was still 50V over rating What voltage did the digital thermostat require? I would assume, if it used an external PSU, then it would be something like 12V. Are you seriously saying it ran fine off 62V? > and I got one that was just a little over the rated amps (I forgot to > check) and plugged it in... when I turned it on all hell broke loose. > What do you have to say to that? *mumbles* buncha smartass So far you've told me very little. You've not given the actual voltages involved -- I'll say it again, a device expecting 200V would probably be OK with 250V in a lot of cases, but I doubt _any_ chip designed to run off 5V would stand 55V. You've not told me anything specific about the devices. > know-it-alls... why in my day... *continues inane rambling* I don't claim to know it all. I know there's a heck of a lot I don't know. But I also suspect I've worked on more PSUs than you've ever seen. And I have a darn good idea about what happens when an approximately constant volrage PSU is connected to various loads. -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 27 23:49:44 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: emulation.net Message-ID: FYI for all concerned, I just checked, and emulation.net is back up. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ikvsabre at comcast.net Wed Jan 28 00:38:57 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joe Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64/128 Computers for pickup in Concord, NH, USA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200401280138570687.0A6421B6@smtp.comcast.net> I wish this was available last weekend when I was in Manchester! Joe *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/27/2004 at 8:53 AM Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Don has what seems to be a nice load of Commodore free for pickup from his >home in Concord, New Hampshire. > >As always, please contact Don directly. > >Reply-to: don-w@jjtekonline.net > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:41:43 -0500 >From: Don Wilson >To: donate@vintage.org >Subject: Commodore Computer > >I have a lot of software to go along with commodore C64' keyboards and >128" keyboards to go along with that I have 4 or 5 floppy disks, one IBM >floppy disk, several battery packs, monitor. I also have several upgrades >that I purchased one is the swift link, game cartridge and plenty of >games. I have a multitude of program disks too. All in all the original >cost of everything I have at that time cost me over $2000.00. I would be >happy to donate everything, however I would prefer to have it picked up at >my home. I will wait for a response before I give out my address, however >I live in Concord, NH. > > Willie > > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 28 00:50:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Please contact me off list regarding the IMSAI. Thanks. Um, why didn't you just e-mail Bob off-list directly? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 28 00:54:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: emulation.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > FYI for all concerned, I just checked, and emulation.net is back up. Yah! Now if only my Ricochet wireless modem would come back... :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jan 28 03:02:56 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: DZQ11 Config Question Message-ID: <20040128.010257.392.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Does anyone out there know what CSR Address and vector I should set this to to make RSTS/E happy? When RSTS INIT's, it bitches that the board doesn't interrupt, and happily disables it. I'm using it in an 11/73, with RQDX3, 1MB ram, TQK70, the aforementioned DZQ11, and a DEQNA. If I do a SHOW DEV, KB1-4 is listed, but no CSR. . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From duggit at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 28 00:20:06 2004 From: duggit at ix.netcom.com (Douglas C. DeHority) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: hp 10391b inverse assembler toolkit availability Message-ID: <000301c3e567$59e4b9a0$4060b13f@PORTALA> Hello George Najarian, Were you ever able to locate the HP 10391B Inverse Assembler toolset? If so, could you provide a link to the site or a vendor with reasonable prices? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance, Doug DeHority / duggit@ix.netcom.com From asholz at topinform.de Wed Jan 28 01:53:51 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: RL02 in Germany Message-ID: <40176A8F.6010704@topinform.com> A "Hello" to the European listeners to this list! I'm looking despeately for a RL02. Andreas From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 28 05:40:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: RL02 in Germany In-Reply-To: <40176A8F.6010704@topinform.com> References: <40176A8F.6010704@topinform.com> Message-ID: <20040128114036.GA5744@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 08:53:51AM +0100, Andreas Holz wrote: > I'm looking despeately for a RL02. Drive or disk pack? BTW: I am looking for RL02 rack mount rails, a M8061 RLV12 QBus and a M7762 RL11 UniBus controler. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jan 28 06:22:39 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040128042219.0564aec8@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:50 PM 1/27/2004, you wrote: >On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Please contact me off list regarding the IMSAI. Thanks. > >Um, why didn't you just e-mail Bob off-list directly? Silly Sellam, it's more fun this way :P From cheri-post at web.de Wed Jan 28 07:14:58 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: RL02 in Germany Message-ID: <200401281314.i0SDEvQ02066@mailgate5.cinetic.de> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 08:53:51AM +0100, Andreas Holz wrote: > > > I'm looking despeately for a RL02. > Drive or disk pack? > > BTW: I am looking for RL02 rack mount rails, a M8061 RLV12 QBus and a > M7762 RL11 UniBus controler. > -- Jochen, a RLV12 Card had been sold on Ebay.de 2 months ago for 20 EUR, if I remember well. Sometimes, qbus cards are being sold for 10 to 20 EUR, these prices seem affordable to me. Pierre ______________________________________________________________________________ Erdbeben im Iran: Zehntausende Kinder brauchen Hilfe. UNICEF hilft den Kindern - helfen Sie mit! https://www.unicef.de/spe/spe_03.php From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 28 08:12:09 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: RL02 in Germany In-Reply-To: <200401281314.i0SDEvQ02066@mailgate5.cinetic.de> References: <200401281314.i0SDEvQ02066@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: <20040128141209.GD5836@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 02:14:58PM +0100, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > a RLV12 Card had been sold on Ebay.de 2 months ago for 20 EUR, > if I remember well. I know. I think I bid on it, but didn't get it. That I want a RLV12 doesn't mean that I am willing to pay any price for it and with only a modem connection epay sniping in the last second will not work. I have a RLV11 in my VAX 4000-400, so there is no big pressure to get a RLV12. I want the RLV12 to be able to connect the RL02 drive to my PDP-11/73. > Sometimes, qbus cards are being sold for 10 to 20 EUR, these prices > seem affordable to me. Yes, and around 20,-EUR (+ shipping) is the price I am willing to pay for a RLV12. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From MGemeny at pgcps.org Wed Jan 28 08:45:03 2004 From: MGemeny at pgcps.org (Mike Gemeny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) Message-ID: Sure, Running on Wondoz ME on a Sony VAIO Slimtop 800 with an 800 MHz Pentium 3 with both occurrences of SIMH resting minimized on the task bar. BTEST 1 Min 4 Sec FPTS9 54 sec This actually suppressed me, some aspects of the simulation seem sluggish. Logging in for example seems slower than I remember on real hardware. Perhaps we should try some other benchmarks that would test the speed of chaining with the targets csaved or saved. Hope this helps, Mike. From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 28 09:07:42 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) References: <005301c3e4a0$41c8e110$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> <007501c3e54f$3405d380$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <001d01c3e5b0$7a6d63e0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> I would like the ability to read these, and others locally... there are so many uses for a good tapedrive! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:26 PM Subject: Re: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) > Ed; > > Send me your tapes and I'll read them. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ed sharpe" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 12:38 AM > Subject: Re: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) > > > > interesting thing we had on the access system two things actually... one > was > > a bbs with 100 message boards, mail system and vote and a multi user chat > > that worked through writing and reading a disc file...... > > > > the other was a giant space war game that had the universe held in a > > matrix in a disc file.... before I got lock feet for the 2883 we would > have > > to come in a kick it back into place after the local kids spent all nite > > playing the game.... I wonder if my old tapes will still load.. guess I > am > > looking for a tape drive that will hook to a pc with controller ready to > go > > turnkey... any suggestions? > > > > ed sharpe archivist for smecc > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Gemeny" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:09 PM > > Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) > > > > > > > > > > Jay wrote: > > > >To my knowledge the only way SIMH might do this is if you ran multiple > > > >copies of SIMH, perhaps in separate windows. And even then, not sure it > > > >would let you cross connect cables between the systems. But I may be > > wrong > > > >about this. > > > > > > Yep, that?s the way the Access Zip launches SIMH to run Access or ?F?. > The > > two > > > occurrences of SIMH are connected with a pair of sockets. > > > > > > Sure, we know it?s inefficient. But just now, it?s the only way to run > ?F? > > or Access, > > > without real hardware, and, they both do run under simulation, IOP and > > all! > > > > > > I had a guest come over this past weekend with a set of tapes and we > were > > able > > > to read and reload his tapes into a running simulation. All in all, we > > spent 9 hours > > > at it, and 2 of those were spent breaking into his system. > > > > > > What we ended up doing was to ?RESTORE? a $HELLO from some other HIBE > > > tape in order to get past his ridiculously tight security. We had a > blast > > banging > > > our heads together on it, but I want to let him tell that story. > > > > > > The bottom line is that Access IS ALIVE under simulation!!!! > > > > > > It only gets better from here? Take the ZIP for a spin! > > > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cncmedic at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 28 09:36:31 2004 From: cncmedic at sbcglobal.net (John lambert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: RK07 media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040128153631.83058.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> I HAVE AN RKO, UNUSED IN THE ORIGINAL BOX SITTING ON THE TOP SHELF COLLECTING DUST AS IT HAS FOR THE TWO DECADES. WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT I GOT HERE-- BESIDES A BIG HARD DRIVE-- DOESN'T SAY DEC ON IT. GIDDINGS AND LEWIS. WITH THIER PART NUMBER 871 21003-02 MADE BY SHUGART. ???? --- David Corbin wrote: > quite possibly interested..... > > Please forward any additional information to me : > > dvcorbin@optonline.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of > John Allain > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:31 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RK07 media > > > Message I got from an outside source: > > "Are you at all interested in RK07 cartridges/packs? > Do you think anyone would be?" > > Contact me and I'll forward your requests. > > John A. From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Jan 28 10:41:57 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 References: <004b01c3e52c$5ee39240$0300a8c0@look.ca><3.0.6.32.20040126191405.00818530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><004b01c3e52c$5ee39240$0300a8c0@look.ca> <3.0.6.32.20040127204218.0087f9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001d01c3e5bd$b71210e0$0300a8c0@look.ca> Must be my writing but what I never said it was the gold that made it seem faster. " it had > >> gold ram in it and I subsequently bought four megs of the same ram", but I guess people missed the point, if there was one. I'll make future posts short and more to the point. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:42 PM Subject: Re: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 > I'm sure that the reason that his computer ran faster was because of the > added RAM (7Mb vs 4 Mb) and not because of the gold on the ICs. > > Joe > > At 05:14 PM 1/27/04 -0800, Tom wrote: > >I'm sorry, but just because a lot of people believe a thing doesn't mean > >it's true. (Unless you mean you can get the other believer(s) to pay > >more :-) > > > >The 1101's with gold tops are another thing entirely, (possibly) > >extremely old, hence 'interesting'. Gold doesn't oxidize quickly, and is > >a better conductor, and will likely improve reliability of connectors > >under adverse conditions (like humidity, insufficient pressure, etc) but > >it makes nothing 'go faster'. Tin/lead or other platings work fine as > >long as you keep the physical environment in the computer OK. > > > > > >On Tue, 2004-01-27 at 15:21, Brian Mahoney wrote: > >> I remember when I bought my first 'real' computer, an IBM 486SX-33, it had > >> gold ram in it and I subsequently bought four megs of the same ram for > >> something like $100.00. Somehow I had the computer working with 7 megs of > >> ram and it seemed much faster than the four I originally got it with. > >> Anyway, there was a discussion about why only gold ram (of course I mean > ram > >> that uses gold to coat the pins that fit in the slots) should be used in > >> certain types of computers as opposed to the normal ram, which was lead or > >> something like that. I did a search then and this was long before Google > and > >> came up with the concept that gold coated ram would 'heal' itself after the > >> small teeth on the connectors grabbed it while the more normal ram let > >> oxidants in which would, in time, ruin the chip. Now I am wondering if the > >> gold ram connectors had teeth and the regular ram connectors didn't. > >> To make a short story long, I sold the chips for exactly the same price I > >> paid for them a year or so later to a place that bought ram for resale. I > >> assume the guy wanted them for printers or something. He was astonished to > >> see the gold connectors and after paying me the 100 bucks asked me if I had > >> any more! At that time ram was far less than what I had paid for the two > >> chips and I guess the premium was for the gold. > >> I bet everyone will be scrambling around looking for gold ram over the next > >> few days. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Joe R." > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:14 PM > >> Subject: Did you guys see this? 24 C1101A gold RAM chips = $418 > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > &sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1> > >> > > >> > To hell collecting computers! We should rip them apart for the chips! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Joe > >> > > > > From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 28 06:44:42 2004 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: looking for a few items. Message-ID: <003101c3e59c$813ca500$0f3ba5d1@shannon> We need the following equipment. Please let us know what you have: 30 x LA42R-KA must be DEC original and new- can pay $ 30 per box of 6. MTI MXV22-M can pay $ 200 DEC M8192-YB can pay $100 DEC M8578 can pay $100 DEC M7676 can pay $750 DEC M8186 can pay $45 DEC M7549 can pay $250 DEC M7840 can pay $75 DEC M8631 can pay $200 DEC M8049 can pay $100 CODAR CTI-102 can pay $75 DEC RQZX1 can pay $250 H780-J can pay $150 Always interested in surplus DEC gear and Business Telephones and Systems. Please let me know what you have. Thank you. Shannon Hoskins Pacific Data Systems 8062 Hwy 99E P.O. Box 444 Los Molinos, CA 96055 USA 530/384-2094 voice 530/384-2097 fax pds3@ix.netcom.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 28 12:35:50 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: RK07 media In-Reply-To: <20040128153631.83058.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040128153631.83058.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jan 28, 2004, at 9:36 AM, John lambert wrote: > I HAVE AN RKO, UNUSED IN THE ORIGINAL BOX SITTING ON > THE TOP SHELF COLLECTING DUST AS IT HAS FOR THE TWO > DECADES. WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT I GOT HERE-- BESIDES > A BIG HARD DRIVE-- DOESN'T SAY DEC ON IT. GIDDINGS AND > LEWIS. WITH THIER PART NUMBER 871 21003-02 MADE BY > SHUGART. ???? You mean besides a busted capslock key? Doc From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 28 12:44:51 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: looking for a few items. References: <003101c3e59c$813ca500$0f3ba5d1@shannon> Message-ID: <031201c3e5ce$d07d4480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Interesting. The field guide lists the M7676 as if it was a single board T11, perhaps like Megan's "PDP laptop" from the VCFe. Anybody ever seen a M7676 / KXT11 ? John A. > We need the following equipment..... > DEC M7676 can pay $750 From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 28 12:48:23 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:55 2005 Subject: RK07 media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CC851A4-51C2-11D8-986B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Jan 28, 2004, at 9:36 AM, John lambert wrote: > >> I HAVE AN RKO, UNUSED IN THE ORIGINAL BOX SITTING ON >> THE TOP SHELF COLLECTING DUST AS IT HAS FOR THE TWO >> DECADES. WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT I GOT HERE-- BESIDES >> A BIG HARD DRIVE-- DOESN'T SAY DEC ON IT. GIDDINGS AND >> LEWIS. WITH THIER PART NUMBER 871 21003-02 MADE BY >> SHUGART. ???? > > You mean besides a busted capslock key? > > > Doc > > Doc, be nice now. The man went to all the trouble to send us an email using his KSR teletype :^) From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 28 13:02:33 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: RK07 media In-Reply-To: <8CC851A4-51C2-11D8-986B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <8CC851A4-51C2-11D8-986B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <8769E830-51C4-11D8-837F-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 28, 2004, at 12:48 PM, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: >> On Jan 28, 2004, at 9:36 AM, John lambert wrote: >> >>> I HAVE AN RKO, UNUSED IN THE ORIGINAL BOX SITTING ON >>> THE TOP SHELF COLLECTING DUST AS IT HAS FOR THE TWO >>> DECADES. WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT I GOT HERE-- BESIDES >>> A BIG HARD DRIVE-- DOESN'T SAY DEC ON IT. GIDDINGS AND >>> LEWIS. WITH THIER PART NUMBER 871 21003-02 MADE BY >>> SHUGART. ???? >> >> You mean besides a busted capslock key? > Doc, be nice now. The man went to all the trouble to > send us an email using his KSR teletype :^) Oh. Sorry. I should have realized. I'm still a little brain-bruised from this week's crash course in electronics. :^P Doc From kth at srv.net Wed Jan 28 12:09:54 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: DZQ11 Config Question In-Reply-To: <20040128.010257.392.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> References: <20040128.010257.392.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4017FAF2.6060900@srv.net> jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: >Does anyone out there know what CSR Address and vector I should >set this to to make RSTS/E happy? When RSTS INIT's, it bitches >that the board doesn't interrupt, and happily disables it. > >I'm using it in an 11/73, with RQDX3, 1MB ram, TQK70, the >aforementioned DZQ11, and a DEQNA. > >If I do a SHOW DEV, KB1-4 is listed, but no CSR. . . . > > > According to VMS (assuming that the TK50 and TK70 have the same addresses) there aren't any floating address/interrupts, so: CSR: 760100 Vector: 300* $ run sys$system:sysgen SYSGEN> CONFIG DEVICE> rqdx3 %SYSGEN-I-EQV_NOTICE, equivalent name - device RQDX3 will be output as UDA DEVICE> tqk70 %SYSGEN-W-DEVNOTKNWN, device not known: /TQK70/ DEVICE> tk50 %SYSGEN-I-EQV_NOTICE, equivalent name - device TK50 will be output as TU81 DEVICE> dz11 DEVICE> deqna %SYSGEN-I-EQV_NOTICE, equivalent name - device DEQNA will be output as QNA DEVICE> Exit Device: UDA Name: PUA CSR: 772150 Vector: 154 Support: yes Device: TU81 Name: PTA CSR: 774500 Vector: 260 Support: yes Device: QNA Name: XQA CSR: 774440 Vector: 120 Support: yes Device: DZ11 Name: TTA CSR: 760100* Vector: 300* Support: yes SYSGEN> From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jan 28 14:09:23 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) References: <200401272212.i0RMCrfL024002@spies.com> Message-ID: <003501c3e5da$9ff0de60$081d8aac@aoldsl.net> Hi Al! thanks for the suggestions on the tape drives! as to the univac tapes am going through the boxes rounding them all up and hoping to find some printouts of the directories... ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: re: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) > > guess I am > looking for a tape drive that will hook to a pc with controller ready to go > turnkey... any suggestions? > > -- > > HP 88780 with 800bpi option (you didn't say if they are 800 or 1600) and scsi > intf. or an M4 Data 9914. > > Or just fedex 'em up here an I can read them for you. > > Have you figured out any more about the Univac tapes that were donated? > > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jan 28 14:00:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? Message-ID: <20040128200006.GB11682@bos7.spole.gov> Over on the pd8-lovers list, someone has been discussing adding an RX8E to his -8/i (http://www.ig-uem.ch/Docs/RX8_8I_1.pdf). I wanted to cross check some info with the RX8E prints, but can't find them at the usual places. Can someone e-mail me a URL of where I can pick up a pdf of the RX8E schematics? My goal is to examine how this guy wired up his RX8E interface to a posi-bus machine, then look at *building* an RX8L from M-series modules (since I have no spare RX8Es lying around). Obviously, all I can do from here is plan, but I have all winter to do it in. It's been a dream of mine for a long time to get OS/8 on a pre- OMNIBUS -8. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Jan-2004 19:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.6 F (-28.7 C) Windchill -35.3 F (-37.4 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.2 kts Grid 033 Barometer 687.1 mb (10361. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 28 15:01:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? Message-ID: <200401282101.i0SL1bJA023187@spies.com> "Diagrams for an Implementation on a TC08 Backplance" I guess TC08s are common enough in Europe that you can strip 'em to build floppy controllers. From ggt at oersted.dtu.dk Wed Jan 28 04:24:11 2004 From: ggt at oersted.dtu.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F8sta_Thuesen?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: scanning electron microscope Message-ID: <002c01c3e588$dee74fc0$a54de182@ggtpc> Hello Jonathan, I'm looking for a SEM for inspection of electronic devices for the space instrumentation dept. at the Technical University of Denmark, and found your one year old mail about the WB-6 SEM. Is this unit still available ? BR G?sta Thuesen Associate Professor, M.Sc., Ph.D. Measurement & Instrumentation Systems Building 327 Technical University of Denmark DK-2800 Lyngby Denmark Phone (work): +45 4525 3444 Fax (work): +45 4588 7133 From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 08:37:37 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the power supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY the same... PSU had the correct connector and nothing inside the phone was shorted (I checked), same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY difference was the difference in the amount of amps supplied. Come on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't Lyos Gemini Norezel "David V. Corbin" wrote: Did you check for interior or exterior positive? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lyos Norezel Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:37 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Voltage & Current.. Nope... I checked this it was DC like it needed. I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 08:38:52 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <200401272306.PAA25401@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040128143852.9606.qmail@web41706.mail.yahoo.com> Yep Lyos Gemini Norezel "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: And, you checked the polarity? Dwight >From: "Lyos Norezel" > >Nope... I checked this it was DC like it needed. > >I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original >author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. >That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. > --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From CKo at lappinsulator.com Wed Jan 28 15:33:28 2004 From: CKo at lappinsulator.com (CKo@lappinsulator.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: N80387sx-16 Message-ID: We have pS2 old machine which needs this chip. If you still have one, I would like to get it. Thanks. Chungduck Ko DIRECTOR BUSH ENGR & QA Lapp Insulator Company LLC 130 Gilbert Street Le Roy, New York 14482 USA Tel: 585-768-5023 Fax: 585-768-5054 CKo@lappinsulator.com www.lappinsulator.com From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jan 28 15:58:03 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the power > supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK > smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY > the same... PSU had the correct connector and nothing inside the phone > was shorted (I checked), same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY > difference was the difference in the amount of amps supplied. Come on... > explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't I think that a few of our 'experts' have overlooked the fact that the PSU in question might have just *failed* at that moment, and the external wall-wart was only a coincidental player in this smokey drama... Cheers John From tponsford at theriver.com Tue Jan 27 15:57:51 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 4 's Message-ID: <4016DEDF.7080504@theriver.com> Hi All, I got a friend who is contemplating thinning out his "herd" of Nova 4's. He is amenable to sell or trade. But want's to make sure they will have a good home. They are all working and have aos plus a lot of documentation. The 16 bit machines are 5100, 5230, 5280, and I believe there is a 32 bit one also, but I cannot recall the model number (MV4000 maybe??). He also has a few 9 track tape drives, but I got first dibs on those :-) I'll be taking some digital photos of them sometime this week and I'll post them as soon as I can. From tponsford at theriver.com Tue Jan 27 16:01:08 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 4 's In-Reply-To: <4016DEDF.7080504@theriver.com> References: <4016DEDF.7080504@theriver.com> Message-ID: <4016DFA4.90801@theriver.com> Forgot to mention.: They are in Tucson, Arizona, and it's no relation to the other Data General in a garage in Tucson that was posted here a few months's ago. Chhers Tom Tom Ponsford wrote: > Hi All, > > I got a friend who is contemplating thinning out his "herd" of Nova 4's. > He is amenable to sell or trade. But want's to make sure they will have > a good home. They are all working and have aos plus a lot of > documentation. The 16 bit machines are 5100, 5230, 5280, and I believe > there is a 32 bit one also, but I cannot recall the model number (MV4000 > maybe??). He also has a few 9 track tape drives, but I got first dibs on > those :-) > > I'll be taking some digital photos of them sometime this week and I'll > post them as soon as I can. > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 28 16:07:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the power > supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK > smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY > the same... PSU had the correct connector and nothing inside the phone > was shorted (I checked), same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY > difference was the difference in the amount of amps supplied. Come on... > explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't I'll bet ya I can. $20, OK? Deal! It's called USER ERROR. Thanks, I'll expect my $20 in the mail. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Jan 28 16:10:02 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007b01c3e5eb$bbac1c80$5b4c4ed5@geoff> And it was a regulated PSU ? Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyos Norezel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: RE: Voltage & Current.. > The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the power supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY the same... PSU had the correct connector and nothing inside the phone was shorted (I checked), same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY difference was the difference in the amount of amps supplied. Come on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't > Lyos Gemini Norezel > > "David V. Corbin" wrote: > Did you check for interior or exterior positive? > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lyos Norezel > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:37 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Re: Voltage & Current.. > > > Nope... I checked this it was DC like it needed. > > I've been following this thread, but I'm betting that the original > author plugged an AC adapter where it wanted DC, or vice versa. > That will often cause a "blue-smoke" level event. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Jan 28 16:04:02 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? References: <20040127223108.GF1508@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <007a01c3e5eb$bab97f20$5b4c4ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:31 PM Subject: Re: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? I don't know > what it means to ork a cow (of either the bovine or human variety), > and I don't want to know, but somehow it doesn't sound at all > pleasant. More peasant than pleasant perhaps. :-) Geoff. > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 28 16:21:12 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: DZQ11 Config Question In-Reply-To: <20040128.010257.392.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <001a01c3e5ed$2cd56be0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Does anyone out there know what CSR Address and vector I > should set this to to make RSTS/E happy? When RSTS INIT's, > it bitches that the board doesn't interrupt, and happily disables it. > > I'm using it in an 11/73, with RQDX3, 1MB ram, TQK70, the > aforementioned DZQ11, and a DEQNA. > I'm not clear whether you know how to set the jumpers but not what to set them to, or whether you don't know how to set the jumpers at all. If it's the latter, there's a DZQ11 User Guide at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/dzq11ug1.pdf The former has already been answered. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 28 16:29:31 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the > power supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK > smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY > the same... PSU had the correct connector and nothing inside the phone > was shorted (I checked), same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY > difference was the difference in the amount of amps supplied. Come > on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs about voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to be). -brian. From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Wed Jan 28 17:08:33 2004 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Data General Nova 4 's References: <4016DEDF.7080504@theriver.com> <4016DFA4.90801@theriver.com> Message-ID: <01c301c3e5f3$aa535ef0$acaafea9@newhare> G'day Tom - The model numbers that you included refer to the Data General MC88000-based AViiON systems rather than the older 16-bit DG Nova 4 minicomputer series. I'll be interested in seeing the .jpgs... Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ponsford" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 3:01 PM Subject: Re: Data General Nova 4 's > Forgot to mention.: They are in Tucson, Arizona, and it's no relation to the > other Data General in a garage in Tucson that was posted here a few months's ago. > > Chhers > > Tom > > Tom Ponsford wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I got a friend who is contemplating thinning out his "herd" of Nova 4's. > > He is amenable to sell or trade. But want's to make sure they will have > > a good home. They are all working and have aos plus a lot of > > documentation. The 16 bit machines are 5100, 5230, 5280, and I believe > > there is a 32 bit one also, but I cannot recall the model number (MV4000 > > maybe??). He also has a few 9 track tape drives, but I got first dibs on > > those :-) > > > > I'll be taking some digital photos of them sometime this week and I'll > > post them as soon as I can. > > > From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jan 28 17:30:27 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> from Lyos Norezel at "Jan 28, 4 06:37:37 am" Message-ID: <200401282330.PAA11530@floodgap.com> > The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the power > supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK smartasses... > what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY the same... PSU had > the correct connector and nothing inside the phone was shorted (I checked), > same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY difference was the difference > in the amount of amps supplied. Come on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't Probably due to the nut behind the keyboard. Useful Tip(tm): Fix your line breaks. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 28 17:19:48 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? Message-ID: <200401282319.i0SNJmbU012522@spies.com> they're on Kevin's site http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/hardware/rx8.tif I'll see about putting a pdf up on bitsavers. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 28 17:16:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. Message-ID: <200401282316.PAA26587@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Lyos Norezel" > >The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the power supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY the same... PSU had the correct connector and nothing inside the phone was shorted (I checked), same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY difference was the difference in the amount of amps supplied. Come on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't >Lyos Gemini Norezel > Hi First, one should mention that even though you measured the phone to see if there was a short, it still may have had a failure ( that blew the first wallwart ) that only shows up when powered. Adding the additional current may have simply switched the balance of what smoked first, the wallwart or the phone. In other words, the phone was bad to start with, you just finished it off. I'm still not surprised or even slightly confused by the fact that it blew up. I've seen much stranger things. The solution, I just stated, is one of many that can still be provided. Dwight From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Jan 28 17:21:27 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200401282341.SAA14683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Voltage was EXACTLY the same... Actual voltage was the same, or rated voltage marked on the wallwart was the same? There's a huge difference between the two. >> Come on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't You lose. Explanation #1: The wallwart or the device you plugged it into failed for other reasons (eg, a small scrap of something conductive fell into it), synchronously with your switching wallwarts. Explanation #2: The device is (well, was) picky about its input voltage and you switched from a regulated wallwart to an unregulated wallwart; see the previous discussion about how unreg wallwarts' output voltage varies. Explanation #3: You made a mistake when checking voltage and polarity (eg, you checked a wallwart other than the one actually used). Oh, and lest we forget: Explanation #4: You're a troll. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From djg at pdp8.net Wed Jan 28 18:00:48 2004 From: djg at pdp8.net (djg@pdp8.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? Message-ID: <200401290000.i0T00mS17340@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> >Can someone e-mail me a URL of where I can pick up a pdf of the RX8E >schematics? My goal is to examine how this guy wired up his RX8E >interface to a posi-bus machine, then look at *building* an RX8L >from M-series modules (since I have no spare RX8Es lying around). > http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?id=238 Search finds it by everything other than RX8E, will have to fix that. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights From lists at microvax.org Wed Jan 28 18:08:24 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200401290008.24628.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 28 January 2004 14:37, Lyos Norezel wrote: > The phone required interior positive an that was, indeed, what the power > supply was. So the wrong connector for the psu my foot... OK > smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? Voltage was EXACTLY > the same... PSU had the correct connector and nothing inside the phone > was shorted (I checked), same with the psu (nothing shorted). The ONLY > difference was the difference in the amount of amps supplied. Come on... > explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't Lyos Gemini Norezel Alright - shall we try a little experiment? Find out the correct resistor to limit the current to precisely what you think a device of yours needs, and connect mains voltage through it. If apparently the voltage doesn't matter on things, why do we bother with large transformers, wall-warts etc - in fact, why do we deal with different voltages at all, eh? Go on, try it. alex/melt From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 28 18:43:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Non-DEC DEC Field Guide? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040128194311.007afe50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know where there's an on-line Field Guide for DEC cards that weren't made by DEC? I found some Remex, Charles River and MDB cards that I'm trying to figure out what they are. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 28 18:44:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Anybody have an Applied MicroSystems Z-8000 emulator? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040128194444.00856c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The title says it all. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 28 18:57:15 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Non-DEC DEC Field Guide? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040128194311.007afe50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jan 28, 2004 07:43:11 PM Message-ID: <200401290057.i0T0vFVc016378@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Does anyone know where there's an on-line Field Guide for DEC cards that > weren't made by DEC? I found some Remex, Charles River and MDB cards that > I'm trying to figure out what they are. > > Joe > Megan's version of the Field Guide is your best bet. Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 28 19:01:01 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Socal HP1000's, tape drives more In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040126193114.007a0390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040128164057.025a92b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I was at GoldenWest Surplus, 346 American Circle, Corona, CA 92880 and they were unloading a stakebed truck load of HP stuff and tape stuff like a cleaner verifyer and some Bell and Howell thingy with banks of meters below the drive. I saw at least half a dozen HP1000 units in racks, and about the same number of 7870 tape drives. One three rack thingy was a HP measurement system, and another rack was full of instruments of various kinds. Condition "looked" working or stored once working. And a couple mini fridge sized disk drives too I think. The deal. Somebody bought this load at auction, and got Goldenwest to haul it to Corona where that someone will be pulling what they want in the next couple days, then the rest belongs to Goldenwest. The owner of Goldenwest, Mark, wont say diddly about it until it belongs to him, but it sounds like he is open to offers as soon as the guy says I'm done take it. Mark is pretty much bottom line oriented, won't talk about it until the deal is ready, but if you are local and prepared to make a serious offer a call might not be a bad idea in the next day or so. Coordination on the list prior to calling might be a good idea, and with that I am for the most part out of the loop. ;) (909) 340-1501 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 28 19:06:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Non-DEC DEC Field Guide? In-Reply-To: <200401290057.i0T0vFVc016378@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040128194311.007afe50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040128200603.00864eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:57 PM 1/28/04 -0800, you wrote: >> >> Does anyone know where there's an on-line Field Guide for DEC cards that >> weren't made by DEC? I found some Remex, Charles River and MDB cards that >> I'm trying to figure out what they are. >> >> Joe >> > >Megan's version of the Field Guide is your best bet. Can yoo give me the URL? From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 28 19:22:58 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Anybody have an Applied MicroSystems Z-8000 emulator? Message-ID: <200401290122.i0T1Mw3r001529@spies.com> I have one, and a Z8002 pod. Docs would be nice to find.. From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Wed Jan 28 20:14:45 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: looking for a few items. Message-ID: <040128211445.28a8a@splab.cas.neu.edu> I have a KXT11-AA, which is an M8063. Never thought it was good for much, but now maybe I have to reconsider. The M7676 is the -AB model, I think. Joe Heck From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 28 19:31:18 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Non-DEC DEC Field Guide? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040128200603.00864eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jan 28, 2004 08:06:03 PM Message-ID: <200401290131.i0T1VIQm017468@onyx.spiritone.com> > >Megan's version of the Field Guide is your best bet. > > Can yoo give me the URL? > http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 28 20:33:44 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <059401c3e610$58979460$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Lyos Norezel > OK smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? You could've figured when to quit. John A. From wpointon at earthlink.net Wed Jan 28 20:43:36 2004 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (william pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <007a01c3e5eb$bab97f20$5b4c4ed5@geoff> Message-ID: hi folks - the main difference ive found between normal orking and cow-orking is that while normal orking is regulated by the ieee - cow orking is under the regulation of the eieio - ;-) -billp On Wednesday, Jan 28, 2004, at 17:04 US/Eastern, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R. D. Davis" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:31 PM > Subject: Re: cow-orkers Was: Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8? > > > I don't know >> what it means to ork a cow (of either the bovine or human variety), >> and I don't want to know, but somehow it doesn't sound at all >> pleasant. > > More peasant than pleasant perhaps. :-) > > Geoff. > >> -- >> Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: >> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above >> Nature > & >> rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to >> justify > such >> http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human >> cruelty. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 28 20:51:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <059401c3e610$58979460$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040128215127.00814300@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:33 PM 1/28/04 -0500, you wrote: >Lyos Norezel > > OK smartasses... what could have gone wrong now, eh? > >You could've figured when to quit. > >John A. No he couldn't. No more than he could figure out voltage and current. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 28 20:56:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Anybody have an Applied MicroSystems Z-8000 emulator? In-Reply-To: <200401290122.i0T1Mw3r001529@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040128215611.00814520@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a circuit board out of one. It looks like a Multibus card but about 1 1/2" taller. It has four 8255s, two HM6264s and six EPROMs on it and two ribbon cable headers on the top. PN 700-10470-04. Do you want it? BTW do you know if it really is Multibus? Joe At 05:22 PM 1/28/04 -0800, you wrote: > >I have one, and a Z8002 pod. > >Docs would be nice to find.. > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jan 28 22:55:03 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: DZQ11 Config Question Message-ID: <20040128.205503.392.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> That did the trick! Thanks guys. It comes up as KB5 - 8 now, but hey, it works! I'm gonna enjoy multiple RT-11 sessions on this thing .. . . Jeff On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:09:54 -0700 Kevin Handy writes: > jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > >Does anyone out there know what CSR Address and vector I should > >set this to to make RSTS/E happy? When RSTS INIT's, it bitches > >that the board doesn't interrupt, and happily disables it. > > > >I'm using it in an 11/73, with RQDX3, 1MB ram, TQK70, the > >aforementioned DZQ11, and a DEQNA. > > > >If I do a SHOW DEV, KB1-4 is listed, but no CSR. . . . > > > > > > > According to VMS (assuming that the TK50 and TK70 have the same > addresses) > there aren't any floating address/interrupts, so: CSR: 760100 > Vector: 300* > > $ run sys$system:sysgen > SYSGEN> CONFIG > DEVICE> rqdx3 > %SYSGEN-I-EQV_NOTICE, equivalent name - device RQDX3 will be output > as UDA > DEVICE> tqk70 > %SYSGEN-W-DEVNOTKNWN, device not known: /TQK70/ > DEVICE> tk50 > %SYSGEN-I-EQV_NOTICE, equivalent name - device TK50 will be output > as TU81 > DEVICE> dz11 > DEVICE> deqna > %SYSGEN-I-EQV_NOTICE, equivalent name - device DEQNA will be output > as QNA > DEVICE> Exit > Device: UDA Name: PUA CSR: 772150 Vector: 154 > Support: > yes > Device: TU81 Name: PTA CSR: 774500 Vector: 260 > Support: > yes > Device: QNA Name: XQA CSR: 774440 Vector: 120 > Support: > yes > Device: DZ11 Name: TTA CSR: 760100* Vector: 300* > Support: > yes > SYSGEN> > > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From aek at spies.com Wed Jan 28 21:03:34 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Anybody have an Applied MicroSystems Z-8000 emulator? Message-ID: <200401290303.i0T33YfT016907@spies.com> > PN 700-10470-04. Do you want it? let me take a peek inside the one I have > do you know if it really is Multibus? at one point, I had a maint manual for the 68k variety it may have started out that way, but from memory they used the P2 connector differently. From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Jan 29 01:49:55 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. (he's a troll) In-Reply-To: <200401282341.SAA14683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <200401282341.SAA14683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <4018BB23.8070509@pacbell.net> der Mouse wrote in response to lyos somebody: >>>Voltage was EXACTLY the same... > > > Actual voltage was the same, or rated voltage marked on the wallwart > was the same? There's a huge difference between the two. > > >>>Come on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't > > > You lose. ... > Oh, and lest we forget: > > Explanation #4: You're a troll. This guy is a troll, and we're all feeding him. The first day I sent him private email what I felt was a reasonable refutation of his statement and supplied some food for thought. However, he didn't reply. However, he seems quite responsive to other emails on the list. Thus, I conclude what he is really interested in is attention. Don't feed the troll and he'll find another bridge to lurk under. From cheri-post at web.de Thu Jan 29 04:29:55 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Old MFM controller on a PCI bus machine Message-ID: <200401291029.i0TATtQ21792@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Sellam, I'm using a Gigabyte board with the HX-Chipset to test my MFM- and RLL-drives. It works fine, just make sure you turn of the onboard IDE-controllers and onboard floppy-controller. In general, MFM-drives take a long time to turn into ready state, too long for these kinds of motherboards such as they declare your harddrive faulty. So what I do is resetting the mainboard. Enough time is elapsed, the drive meanwhile ready to perform the "working test" done by the board. Pierre > > I haven't played with MFM hard drives and controllers in a LONG time > (about 10 years now) so I have some questions. > > I'll start off easy. Should there be any reason an old 16-bit ISA MFM > controller won't work properly in a Pentium-class PC with ISA and PCI > slots? I imagine I would just have to configure the BIOS to reserve the > proper interrupt (I believe it's 14, correct?) for the MFM controller. > > I did all this but the MFM controller wreaked havoc on the system. It > killed the on-board floppy disk and IDE controllers (not physically killed > but basically disabled them and the system couldn't boot). > > I'm trying to determine if there is a natural conflict before I venture > forth with this configuration. This may be a problem related to the PC > I'm trying to plug the card into because there are other oddities with the > IDE controller that is preventing the system from booting with 4 hard > drives installed (2 per IDE interface). It halts after it auto-recognizes > the drives on the primary controller. Weird. > > Anyway, any insight would be appreciated. > > I'm going to do more experimentation in the meantime. I'll get another PC > with ISA and PCI slots to work with, and will also find an old 386 to test > the MFM controller on to make sure it is working fine. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > ______________________________________________________________________________ Erdbeben im Iran: Zehntausende Kinder brauchen Hilfe. UNICEF hilft den Kindern - helfen Sie mit! https://www.unicef.de/spe/spe_03.php From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jan 29 05:31:10 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <200401291131.i0TBVAC27702@mwave.heeltoe.com> Can anyone tell me if there is a version of Ultrix which will boot on an 11/730? And if so, can I grab media files off the net somewhere? (I know 4.3bsd would, and I'd like to fool around with netbsd but it seems like ultrix might be a good way to bootstrap) or, is there a better place to ask? (pups? tuhs?) -brad From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 29 08:31:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Anybody have an Applied MicroSystems Z-8000 emulator? In-Reply-To: <200401290303.i0T33YfT016907@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040129093120.00890100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:03 PM 1/28/04 -0800, Al wrote: > >> PN 700-10470-04. Do you want it? > >let me take a peek inside the one I have > >> do you know if it really is Multibus? > >at one point, I had a maint manual for the 68k variety >it may have started out that way, but from memory they >used the P2 connector differently. FWIW The P2 connector is ALWAYS used differently. Only the P1 connector is standard. P2 was purposely left undefined and is always used for whatever the designer wants. I doubt it's used for the exact same thing on ANY two cards. Even cards like the iSBC 80-20, iSBC 80-20/4 and iSBC 80-24, each of which is a replacement for the preceeding one, use P2 slightly differently since the later ones allowed more interrupts (via P2). That is one of the things that makes the Multibus so flexible. If you need a two or three card set for a function you can connect them via their P2 connectors without altering the main (P1) bus in any way. That's why the Intel MDSs have the short two and three slot circuit boards in the chassis. The floppy drive controllers and most of the ICEs are two board sets. The ICE-86 is a three board set. Joe From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 29 10:18:34 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0401291618.AA25538@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > Can anyone tell me if there is a version of Ultrix which will boot on an > 11/730? AFAIK DEC never dropped 730 support from Ultrix so I see no reason why would any given version, e.g., V4.00 which I have on my FTP site, NOT boot on a 730. > And if so, can I grab media files off the net somewhere? I've got the full V4.00 distribution on my FTP site: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/ult400vaxdist-tk50/ This dist came into my hands in TK50 format, hence the directory name on the FTP site, but I see no reason why you can't write it to magtape as well. (6250 BPI would be easier, for 1600 BPI you may have to split it into multiple tapes and I am not sure how to tweak the metadata for the Ultrix installer so it knows from which tape to get what.) Or you can bootstrap from TK50 on a 730 with a TUK50 controller. You would, however, need to create your own TU58 media for Ultrix bootstrap. They can be constructed from file.01 and file.02 on the tape (which are on the FTP site), but I'm not sure of the exact algorithm and you'll need to look in the source code. I have complete sources for Ultrix V2.00 and V4.20 on the same FTP site. Not for V4.00, but since this stuff hasn't changed between V2.00 and V4.20 it logically follows that it should hold for V4.00 as well. Now even if you recreate the same Ultrix distribution TU58s that you would get from DEC when buying Ultrix, you are still not all set. DEC's Ultrix distribution TU58s are not directly readable or bootable by the 730 console, and you need ANOTHER TU58, which is not part of any Ultrix distribution at all, with a sufficiently recent version of VMB.EXE and supporting stuff that knows how to boot non-VMS operating systems, probably the original version that came with the hardware in 1982 won't do. In other words you would be in for a lot of "fun". > (I know 4.3bsd would, and I'd like to fool around with netbsd but it > seems like ultrix might be a good way to bootstrap) 4.3BSD (either original or Quasijarus) is the easiest of all to bootstrap of any 11/7xx, including 730. Everything that you need is on ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG in the appropriate directory (/pub/UNIX/4.3BSD or /pub/UNIX/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0b): tape images and TU58 cassette image, and the TU58 is in RT-11 format directly readable by the 730 console, no VMB or other stuff is needed. Now here is something I want to ask you: would you happen to have an original DEC 730 console TU58 with the latest version of 730 microcode and console program they released? If you do, would you please make a block image (dd) of it? MS From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 29 10:43:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: TMS1000 Processor (fwd) Message-ID: Can someone help Charlie? (See below...) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:35:52 +1300 From: Charlie To: info@vintagetech.com Subject: TMS1000 Processor I wan to dump the program off a TMS1000 so tha I can read and then make some improvements and then reload onto a current day processor. Cna you send me in the right direction to locate info on how to dump etc. for the TMS1000. Charlie Harris New Zealand -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 29 10:51:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: ping Christopher McNabb Message-ID: <20040129175136.23f0c975.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi Christopher. You offered me a RL11 but I can't reply to your mail. I tried two different SMTP servers but I get allways: Jan 29 17:47:33 SirTobie sendmail[15295]: i0TGOxt15222: to=, delay=00:22:34, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=301051, relay=smtp.vt.edu. [198.82.161.8], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: Connection refused by smtp.vt.edu. On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 08:18:45AM -0500, Christopher McNabb wrote: > I have an RL11 available. You'd have to pay shipping from the US to > Germany, plus whatever it is worth to you. Thanks for the offer. :-) I would pay perhaps US$20 for the card and additionaly max. US$20 for shipping. I am looking for other UniBus cards as well: SMD disk controller. (MSCP or maybe R? emulation) Pertec 9 track tape controler for my cipher F880. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jan 29 11:04:02 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:18:34 PST." <0401291618.AA25538@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200401291704.i0TH42c29283@mwave.heeltoe.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: > [removed incredibly help info about booting ultrix - thanks! I owe you!] >4.3BSD (either original or Quasijarus) is the easiest of all to bootstrap of a >ny >11/7xx, including 730. Everything that you need is on ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG in >the appropriate directory (/pub/UNIX/4.3BSD or /pub/UNIX/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0b): >tape images and TU58 cassette image, and the TU58 is in RT-11 format directly >readable by the 730 console, no VMB or other stuff is needed. Excellent. I didn't realize that. I think I got confused looking at NetBSD (which says it won't boot on a 730). >Now here is something I want to ask you: would you happen to have an original >DEC 730 console TU58 with the latest version of 730 microcode and console >program they released? If you do, would you please make a block image (dd) of >it? I don't know what I have. Next week an 11/730 shows up which I have never seen "live". It looks like it has an RL02, an "R80" and some sort of 9-track. It's two racks wide. We'll see :-) I understand there were microcode issues on the 730 which made booting painful. I didn't realize there was a "fix" to the microcode. Once I get done cleaning, etc... I will check. There's also a fellow 730 owner in town - I'll ask him once I have more of a clue. I'd be happy to dd the console TU58 once it's up. thanks! -brad From india_50 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 12:17:22 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha Message-ID: <20040129181722.45622.qmail@web14205.mail.yahoo.com> hey, i'm lookin' for an 8" floppy drive for my pc too. i do hv a few of these disks (abs no idea what's in them). let me know if there's any in any region close to india. pls....... thank u urs subs ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save ?80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk From india_50 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 12:17:22 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive for PC, RS/6000, 68k Mac or Alpha Message-ID: <20040129181722.45622.qmail@web14205.mail.yahoo.com> hey, i'm lookin' for an 8" floppy drive for my pc too. i do hv a few of these disks (abs no idea what's in them). let me know if there's any in any region close to india. pls....... thank u urs subs ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save ?80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk From silviorf at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 12:18:08 2004 From: silviorf at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Silvio=20Finotti?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:56 2005 Subject: Apple Turnover Software In-Reply-To: <200401291800.i0TI03ON077920@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040129181808.47286.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Hi !!! I got a PC ISA card: Apple Turnover. The prob. is that I do not have the software for the card.... Can any1 help... please ???? Thanks in advance, Silvio Finotti ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! GeoCities: a maneira mais f?cil de criar seu web site gr?tis! http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/ From MTPro at aol.com Thu Jan 29 12:31:57 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Some things for sale . . . Message-ID: <4C49185A.03361773.0000EF7A@aol.com> Hi everyone, I have a few things I'd like to clear out if anyone interested would write me. Or later they will go on eBay and/or vintage.org MarketPlace. I have: a number of great old BYTEs, Creative Computing, Kilobaud, Sinclair, CoCo, Microcomputing, magazines, etc. A very nice Amiga 1000 with keyboard, mouse, two Amiga monitors, external floppy, disks, etc. Osborne 1 blue model, turns on and ready, but floppies need adjustment (have to check). Epson QX10 with monitor, keyboard, box, software, manuals, etc. Amstrad PPC640 (or 512, gotta check), works, but needs contrast adjusted. A few more things to come - portable terminal/printer (very nice), S-100 computer, big 'ol huge dual 8" disk drives, Lear Siegler ADM Terminal (classic iMac-like shape), ZX-80 in custom keyboard. Thanks, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com From dpitts at cozx.com Wed Jan 28 17:11:34 2004 From: dpitts at cozx.com (Dave Pitts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: TI 990 minicomputer Message-ID: <401841A6.2030701@cozx.com> Jay: Saw your message dated Oct 1, 2003 about the TI system. Did you get it running? I too, have some TI hardware and I've written some cross support software that may be of interest (cross assembler, cross linker and a simulator). You can access the stuff at: http://www.cozx.com/~dpitts/ti990.html Good luck. -- Dave Pitts PULLMAN: Travel and sleep in safety and comfort. dpitts@cozx.com My other RV IS a Pullman (Colorado Pine). http://www.cozx.com/~dpitts From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Jan 28 21:07:07 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: looking for a few items. References: <003101c3e59c$813ca500$0f3ba5d1@shannon> Message-ID: <200401290307.WAA18202913@shell.TheWorld.com> > The field guide lists the M7676 as if it was a single board > T11, perhaps like Megan's "PDP laptop" from the VCFe. > Anybody ever seen a M7676 / KXT11 ? I haven't tried opening up the 'laptop' for some time... the last time I did, I was unable to get it entirely open -- there is some hidden screw somewhere I was unable to find. I'll try again when I have a life again (after I get a house)... As for the KXT11-A, I have a couple of them, both the -AA and the -AB variants. In fact, the -AA is the one I used to do the work on the DU driver to get RT to boot, since it needs an alternate address (176150, if I remember correctly) The KXT11-AB is a proto -- it doesn't have the purple card handles. So, they do exist and have been seen... :-) Megan From v.slyngstad at verizon.net Wed Jan 28 20:00:09 2004 From: v.slyngstad at verizon.net (Vince Slyngstad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? References: <200401282101.i0SL1bJA023187@spies.com> Message-ID: <007e01c3e60b$a0189460$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> > "Diagrams for an Implementation on a TC08 Backplane" > > I guess TC08s are common enough in Europe that you can > strip 'em to build floppy controllers. No, no, send the TC08 to me! I would love to get a TC08 back-plane for my 8i :-). I could even trade a TU55 drive for it, and then we could both use TC08s as they were intended :-)! I could also use an RX8e, but I promise not to put it in the TC08 :-). What is the best source of back-plane slots for this kind of homebrew work? Vince From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Jan 29 02:17:18 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 22:29, Brian Chase wrote: > I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs about > voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical > data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at > some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to > be). In other words, blows himself up with a 3kV-to-240v electricity pole transformer? Gordon. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 13:13:20 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Looking for M9404-PA M9405-PA QBUS Expension Cards Message-ID: <20040129191320.61501.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Well, I posted this on comp.os.vms and got no response so I repost it here. Hope it is not against certain rules. I plan to exchange with a pair of KDA50 cards (one M7165 and one M7164). Each side pays shipping by himself. Details: I ship you a pair of KDA50 cards, with two card covers. You ship me a pair of M9404, M9505 with the attached card covers. People on the list, please let me know whether it is a fair exchange. If not, I am willing to exchange for the M9404 only. Yes, there is a M9405 on ebay now, but what I really need is the M9404. Thank you. Btw, I changed my name to vax,3900 in mail.yahoo.com 3 days ago, but still my old (fake) name is shown in every email I send out. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 29 13:13:44 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > Excellent. I didn't realize that. I think I got confused looking at > NetBSD (which says it won't boot on a 730). Please don't confuse BSD and NetBSD. It may help to realise that "net" is Russian for "no", so NetBSD really means "not BSD". I strongly encourage you to run 4.3BSD on your VAX. A Classic Computer should run a Classic OS! > It looks like it has an RL02, an "R80" and some sort > of 9-track. It's two racks wide. We'll see :-) Standard 730 config. But the good part is that you have a tape drive, that's the most important and most often overlooked part. > I understand there were microcode issues on the 730 which made booting > painful. Yup. > I didn't realize there was a "fix" to the microcode. Yes, I'm pretty sure it was fixed, although since I have never actually had a 730 in my hacky hands I have never been able to see and verify it for myself. Ultrix V2.00 source contains the following comment (in /sys/stand/Makefile): # 9 Dec 83 --jmcg # Deleted special references to old 730 bug. There is no longer a # distinction between versions for 780, 750, and 730. Distribution # media, however, contain `boot_justask' as `boot' to avoid attempts # to boot prematurely. This comment makes me fairly assured that this bug was indeed fixed, and from the comment date apparently quite early. I have a copy of VAX-11/730 console and microcode cassette with microcode version 58, which almost certainly has this bug fixed. Unfortunately it is not a virgin copy but a mutilated one. It was copied under Vampirist Mediocre System (VMS) which did not do a true block-for-block copy like UNIX dd, but parsed the original RT-11 filesystem and copied only the files, constructing a new RT-11 filesystem on the copy, so the files are not necessarily in their original locations, the dates on the files are wrong (the date of VMS copying, not the original date), etc. Since this cassette image is mutilated, it is not on my FTP site, but I can send it to you if you need it. I am still looking for a virgin block-for-block 730 TU58 image. MS From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 29 13:21:38 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Free to good home Message-ID: <10401291921.ZM24476@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> The Computing Service here at York still has one DEC LG01 printer in use, but it's going offline for the last time at the end of this week. Rather than wheel it out to the skip, we'd prefer to see it go to someone who can use it. It's free to anyone who can collect it from York in the near future, and we should have some paper and spare ribbons as well. It you don't know what an LG01 is, it's a large heavy-duty fast (600lpm) 132-column dot-matrix tractor-feed printer in an integral soundproofing enclosure (floor-standing). We use(d) it for admin and finance reports, and multipart forms, originally on a VAX but now on one of our Alphas. It's been under a maintenance contract until recently, and it's in very good condition. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 29 13:44:39 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <401962A7.8010909@jcwren.com> >>Excellent. I didn't realize that. I think I got confused looking at >>NetBSD (which says it won't boot on a 730). >> >> > >Please don't confuse BSD and NetBSD. It may help to realise that "net" is >Russian for "no", so NetBSD really means "not BSD". I strongly encourage you to >run 4.3BSD on your VAX. A Classic Computer should run a Classic OS! > > > [snip] Wha? 'nyet' is Russian for 'no' last time I checked a dictionary. --jc From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 29 13:56:33 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0401291956.AA25867@ivan.Harhan.ORG> J.C. Wren wrote: > Wha? 'nyet' is Russian for 'no' last time I checked a dictionary. The Russian word of "no" is CE C5 D4 in Cyrillic alphabet in KOI-8. Transliterating Cyrillic in ASCII is always a pain and there is more than one reasonable way to do it. MS From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 29 13:58:18 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <401965DA.4020402@jcwren.com> From http://netbsd.org/Misc/history.html: "NetBSD took its roots from the original UCB 4.3BSD via the Networking/2 release and 386BSD." Talking to the guys in #netbsd on efnet, the 'net' portion of the name shows part of it's heritage, from the Metworking/2 release. They claim you're on crack. --jc Michael Sokolov wrote: >>Excellent. I didn't realize that. I think I got confused looking at >>NetBSD (which says it won't boot on a 730). >> >> > >Please don't confuse BSD and NetBSD. It may help to realise that "net" is >Russian for "no", so NetBSD really means "not BSD". I strongly encourage you to >run 4.3BSD on your VAX. A Classic Computer should run a Classic OS! > > > From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Jan 29 13:59:08 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? In-Reply-To: <200401282101.i0SL1bJA023187@spies.com> Message-ID: <99731F8C-5295-11D8-B1E2-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Al Kossow heeft op woensdag, 28 jan 2004 om 22:01 (Europe/Zurich) het volgende geschreven: > > I guess TC08s are common enough in Europe that you can > strip 'em to build floppy controllers. Al, Ulrich made this thing in '85. PDP8 material is rarer here than in the US, rest assured. Jos Dreesen From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 29 14:02:06 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <20040129120052.H66635@newshell.lmi.net> > > I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs about > > voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical > > data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at > > some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to > > be). On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > In other words, blows himself up with a 3kV-to-240v electricity pole > transformer? Would that damage the transformer? (how many amps are those?) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 29 14:04:06 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0401292004.AA25907@ivan.Harhan.ORG> J.C. Wren wrote: > They claim you're on crack. Well I say the same about them. I am at war with NetBSD and enemies in a war always say bad things about each other, it's the propaganda front of the war. I do not want to continue this thread further. No reply or followup to this message will elicit any reply or followup from me. MS From lists at microvax.org Thu Jan 29 14:03:55 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401291956.AA25867@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401291956.AA25867@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200401292003.55857.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 29 January 2004 19:56, Michael Sokolov wrote: > J.C. Wren wrote: > > Wha? 'nyet' is Russian for 'no' last time I checked a dictionary. > > The Russian word of "no" is CE C5 D4 in Cyrillic alphabet in KOI-8. > Transliterating Cyrillic in ASCII is always a pain and there is more > than one reasonable way to do it. Yes, and doing language translation using codepages isn't one of them. alex/melt From lists at microvax.org Thu Jan 29 14:06:53 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401292004.AA25907@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401292004.AA25907@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200401292006.53729.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 29 January 2004 20:04, Michael Sokolov wrote: > J.C. Wren wrote: > > They claim you're on crack. > > Well I say the same about them. I am at war with NetBSD and enemies in > a war always say bad things about each other, it's the propaganda front > of the war. You're at war with a piece of code? There's films about people like you... alex/melt From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 29 14:06:00 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200401292015.PAA04961@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Excellent. I didn't realize that. I think I got confused looking >> at NetBSD (which says it won't boot on a 730). > Please don't confuse BSD and NetBSD. Well, no; that would be like confusing "English" and "Germanic languages". > It may help to realise that "net" is Russian for "no", so NetBSD > really means "not BSD". Well, the leading N sound needs to be palatalized, as I understand it; the sound _is_ better transcribed into English spelling rules as "nyet" than "net". (Not that _you_ need to be told this; this is more to the list than to msokolov.) Your "meaning" for NetBSD is amusing, but (like most dogmatic positions taken for political reasons) rather incorrect factually, as someone else already pointed out. NetBSD is not BSD in the strict sense of having come from the CSRG at Berkeley - but then, nothing is that is today simultaneously (a) bootable, (b) open source, and (c) legal to run for those without licenses that are expensive (if obtainable at all). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 29 14:25:28 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: TMS1000 Processor (fwd) Message-ID: <200401292025.i0TKPSZ3027513@spies.com> > I wan to dump the program off a TMS1000 You'll have to decap the part and photomicrograph the ROM and PLAs I've put the programmer's manual up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/_dataBooks There is no way to read the ROM externally. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 29 14:29:49 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Free to good home In-Reply-To: <10401291921.ZM24476@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > The Computing Service here at York still has one DEC LG01 printer in > use, but it's going offline for the last time at the end of this week. Hells, I was still installing them in 1998, though I suppose that WAS nearly 6 years ago....eep.... I wonder if a local college round here would be interested in it? They're still running one or 2. cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jan 29 15:01:59 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: TMS1000 Processor (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200401292025.i0TKPSZ3027513@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > > I wan to dump the program off a TMS1000 > > You'll have to decap the part and photomicrograph the ROM and PLAs > > I've put the programmer's manual up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/_dataBooks > There is no way to read the ROM externally. > Isn't the TMS 1000 the CPU that uses a LFSR for the program counter so the instructions end up in nice Pseudo random locations in the actual ROM? Peter Wallace From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 29 13:36:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040129143658.00855390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:05 AM 1/29/04 +0000, Gordon wrote: >On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 22:29, Brian Chase wrote: > >> I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs about >> voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical >> data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at >> some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to >> be). > >In other words, blows himself up with a 3kV-to-240v electricity pole >transformer? > Connected backwards of course since "voltage doesn't matter". :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 29 15:12:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Non-DEC DEC Field Guide? In-Reply-To: <200401290131.i0T1VIQm017468@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040128200603.00864eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040129161250.00856b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:31 PM 1/28/04 -0800, you wrote: >> >Megan's version of the Field Guide is your best bet. >> >> Can yoo give me the URL? >> > >http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt > Darn! I couldn't find a single one of the cards listed there or anywhere else on the web. I gave up and put them on E-bay. Somebody there will know what they are. Take a look at them, there's a Remex Paper Tape Reader Interface, a Charles River card of some kind, a couple of card with no manufacturer's name, some MDB cards and a DSD (Data Systems Design) card for a "floppy". They're all Q-bus cards and they all date from about 1979 to 1981. . Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 29 15:18:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <20040129120052.H66635@newshell.lmi.net> References: <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040129161853.00867a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:02 PM 1/29/04 -0800, you wrote: >> > I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs about >> > voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical >> > data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at >> > some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to >> > be). >On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: >> In other words, blows himself up with a 3kV-to-240v electricity pole >> transformer? > >Would that damage the transformer? (how many amps are those?) I believe that they're AT LEAST 1 Amp ON THE 3kV SIDE! The neon sign manufacturer's use them to step the 240 back up to 2 or 3 kV at 1 Amp to burn the gasses out of the glass walls of tubes that they use to make neon signs with. They run them at ~1 Amp for 24 hours and the tubes are almost white hot. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 29 15:20:57 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: PDP Tester on E-bay Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040129162057.00867c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Here's an odd looking thing. It's some kind of "PDP Test Board" Joe From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jan 29 15:30:17 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. References: <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <1075363525.10217.12.camel@pluto> <3.0.6.32.20040129161853.00867a30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00a701c3e6af$172fa6d0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: RE: Voltage & Current.. > At 12:02 PM 1/29/04 -0800, you wrote: > >> > I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs about > >> > voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical > >> > data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at > >> > some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to > >> > be). > >On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > >> In other words, blows himself up with a 3kV-to-240v electricity pole > >> transformer? > > > >Would that damage the transformer? (how many amps are those?) > > I believe that they're AT LEAST 1 Amp ON THE 3kV SIDE! The neon sign > manufacturer's use them to step the 240 back up to 2 or 3 kV at 1 Amp to > burn the gasses out of the glass walls of tubes that they use to make neon > signs with. They run them at ~1 Amp for 24 hours and the tubes are almost > white hot. > > Joe > Funny, All the glass/quarts tubes I have seen don't glow any color even when melting. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 29 15:15:37 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200401292015.PAA04961@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200401292015.PAA04961@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040129221537.6d8865ae.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:06:00 -0500 (EST) der Mouse wrote: > NetBSD is not BSD in the strict sense of having come from the CSRG at > Berkeley - but then, nothing is that is today simultaneously (a) > bootable, (b) open source, and (c) legal to run for those without > licenses that are expensive (if obtainable at all). Old BSD releases can be downloaded for free from the TUHS archive since Caldera released the old UNIX stuff under a BSD licence. At least the 4.3BSD-Quasijarus stuff (an extended 4.3BSD-Tahoe from M. Sokolov) is bootable on cold hardware. 4.2BSD and 4.3BSD-Reno seem to be complete too. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jan 29 15:46:03 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from Michael Sokolov at "Jan 29, 4 11:13:44 am" Message-ID: <200401292146.NAA16406@floodgap.com> > > Excellent. I didn't realize that. I think I got confused looking at > > NetBSD (which says it won't boot on a 730). > > Please don't confuse BSD and NetBSD. It may help to realise that "net" is > Russian for "no", so NetBSD really means "not BSD". Please don't take up etymology as a career, or even as a hobby, mmkay? >From the console of a Mac OS X box next to two Macs running NetBSD, -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Greek tailor shop: "Euripedes?" "Yes -- Eumenides?" ------------------------ From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 29 15:42:47 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Non-DEC DEC Field Guide? Message-ID: <200401292142.i0TLglPS018803@spies.com> all of the cards you have posted are Unibus, not Qbus the remex card is a reader/punch interface the DR11C is a 16 bit parallel i/o card L-10-B-2 appears to be a copy of a DEC M7800 serial line intf the CDS is some sort of disc interface and the DSD board is a unibus interface for a DSD440 floppy From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 29 15:43:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200401291704.i0TH42c29283@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Jan 29, 4 12:04:02 pm Message-ID: > I don't know what I have. Next week an 11/730 shows up which I have > never seen "live". It looks like it has an RL02, an "R80" and some sort The 11/730 has an 'integrated disk controller' (it uses part of the CPU logic IIRC), which conntects to an RL02 and the R80. The latter the same drive as is used in the RM80, just that the RM80 has a rack of electronics to link the not-quite-SMD interface to Massbus. The 11/703 talks driectly to the not-quite SMD interface. IIRC, the stnadard configurations for the 'compact' 11/730 (one half-height rack) were the CPU, R80 and RL02 or the CPU, R80 and TSU05 magtape. The latter just plugged into a Unibus slot in the CPU box. > of 9-track. It's two racks wide. We'll see :-) > > I understand there were microcode issues on the 730 which made booting > painful. I didn't realize there was a "fix" to the microcode. >From looking around the 11/730 boards (I am still looking for the printset..) there doesn't appear to be any micrcode ROMs in the machine. There's an area of RAM which I assume is a writeable control store. I think all the microcode is loaded from the TU58. -tony From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 29 16:13:21 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 29 January 2004 21:44 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Ultrix on an 11/730? > > The 11/730 has an 'integrated disk controller' (it uses part of the CPU > logic IIRC), which conntects to an RL02 and the R80. The latter the same > drive as is used in the RM80, just that the RM80 has a rack of > electronics to link the not-quite-SMD interface to Massbus. The 11/703 > talks driectly to the not-quite SMD interface. > > IIRC, the stnadard configurations for the 'compact' 11/730 (one > half-height rack) were the CPU, R80 and RL02 or the CPU, R80 and TSU05 > magtape. The latter just plugged into a Unibus slot in the CPU box. The very first VAX I got my paws on in 1985 was an 11/730 running VMS 3.7. It was a standard half-height rack containing (top down) a single RL02 (DQA1), CPU containing a TU58 tape for booting/upgrading and the R80 (DQA0). Half a meg of memory too, which was the reason we ditched it in favour of our first MV II (fruit) 'cos we'd rather fork the money out on a much faster machine to run VMS 4.5 than pay for the extra memory for the 730. Typing that's just made me remember the time I stripped and binned a TS11 tape drive :-/ And the VT52 that I skipped. And the VT180. And the Rainbows. Curses! cheers -- Adrian/Witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From chrisc at addpower.com Thu Jan 29 16:23:43 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: off the wall PDP-11 question... Message-ID: I think I know the answer to this already...but I'll ask anyway. :) Can the PDP-11 use the frame buffer boards that a VAX would use for graphic displays? From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 29 16:44:50 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: off the wall PDP-11 question... In-Reply-To: from "Christopher Cureau" at Jan 29, 2004 04:23:43 PM Message-ID: <200401292244.i0TMio0l012864@onyx.spiritone.com> > I think I know the answer to this already...but I'll ask anyway. :) Can > the PDP-11 use the frame buffer boards that a VAX would use for graphic > displays? > I think it's possible, but that you need to write your own drivers. Megan would probably have a better answer. I think you can use the VCB01's but not the VCB02's (if those are the right designation). Zane From tomj at wps.com Thu Jan 29 16:59:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: New (sic) 8" floppy media? Message-ID: <1075416448.2207.80.camel@dhcp-248044> So, what's the story with current-use 8" flop media? My brother Gregg got my old CP/M system running, novelty is wearing off and is willing to part with it now :-) It's a homemade box, I forget what's in it, though I do remember it's got a Cromemco 4FDC with a data separator piggyback board from a Trash 1 living under the WD17xx chip (the Pertecs the 4FDC was meant for had data sep on-board). Two Shugart drives with solidstte relays to shut 'em off after inactivity, which is just as well, as the bearings now howl like crazed tiny animals. I have one sealed box of Dysans (list price: $65. My price: $2 from a stationary store in Tucson AZ closing in 1998. Wish I had bought 'em all.). How does this stuff hold up? I assume no one actually makes them anymore! From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 29 16:53:35 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c3e6ba$c07b56c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > From looking around the 11/730 boards (I am still looking for the > printset..) there doesn't appear to be any micrcode ROMs in > the machine. > There's an area of RAM which I assume is a writeable control store. I > think all the microcode is loaded from the TU58. The printset I scanned is here: http://www.pdp11.nl/Documentation/11730z1.pdf (or at least, it will be back, once the site comes back on air). I'm pretty certain that the 11/730 is entirely soft. I remember reading an article in one of the DEC Technical Journals where they described how they used the VAX-11/730 as a test bed for the MicroVAX II subset instruction emulation code. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dave at mitton.com Thu Jan 29 17:36:34 2004 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> Folks, I need some help. I'm trying to bring up my LSI-11 system (KDA11, BA11-VA Cabinet, RX02, VT100), and due to a basement flood a few years ago, all of my RX02 media has been water damaged. This was my last 8" floppy system. The diskettes are sticking to the jacket, and some bits of the lining are sticking to the oxide, (or vice versa) anyways I cannot get anything to boot. I've tried cleaning a few of the media with isopropyl alcohol, but no success yet. I had a complete RT-11 V4 distribution (and all the binders) but even the DEC distribution diskettes got hit. Some of them have mold on the labels. I'm looking for someone to help me with a copy of a known good bootable RX02 RT-11 system diskette, and maybe even some diagnostics. There may be something wrong with the drives, but given the unreliability of my media, I cannot tell. I still need to sit down and single step through the bootstrap and figure out what is bombing, but I could use to remove some variables. Can anyone help me? Easiest if you are in the area, I could pick up. Thanks, Dave. (In the northwest side of the Boston Area) From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 29 17:46:56 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. Message-ID: <200401292346.PAA27479@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Ordinary glass glows a little redish yellow in a dark room, when melted. Quartz glass if definitely white hot, when melted. I don't think they are using quartz glass for neon signs, though. Dwight >From: "Teo Zenios" > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:18 PM >Subject: RE: Voltage & Current.. > > >> At 12:02 PM 1/29/04 -0800, you wrote: >> >> > I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs >about >> >> > voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical >> >> > data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at >> >> > some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to >> >> > be). >> >On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: >> >> In other words, blows himself up with a 3kV-to-240v electricity pole >> >> transformer? >> > >> >Would that damage the transformer? (how many amps are those?) >> >> I believe that they're AT LEAST 1 Amp ON THE 3kV SIDE! The neon sign >> manufacturer's use them to step the 240 back up to 2 or 3 kV at 1 Amp to >> burn the gasses out of the glass walls of tubes that they use to make neon >> signs with. They run them at ~1 Amp for 24 hours and the tubes are almost >> white hot. >> >> Joe >> >Funny, All the glass/quarts tubes I have seen don't glow any color even when >melting. > > > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 29 17:50:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <200401292346.PAA27479@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200401292346.PAA27479@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200401292356.SAA07063@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Ordinary glass glows a little redish yellow in a dark room, when > melted. Actually, come to think of it, what happens if you get ordinary glass up to white heat? Does it just become a less viscous liquid, like most liquids, or does anything interesting happen? For that matter, what's the boiling point of glass? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 29 18:03:29 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: LAST CHANCE (stuff going to dumpster tonight if unclaimed) Message-ID: <04c401c3e6c4$7e34bdb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Narrow Carriage Dot Matrix printers (all believed working, good shape): Star NX-2430 Multifont TI Omni 800 855 w/font cartridge Star NX-1001 Multifont Epson LX-850 Honeywell Bull Miniature inkjet - about 2 inches tall, 8 inches wide, 5 inches deep. Centronics parallel IF, Cute! Viva Modem 24 (little tower, no PS) Dell Monitor, 14", model Vi1439U Packard Bell Monitor, model PB8538SVGA Complete Epson Equity I+ system, monitor, keyboard, system unit. All epson brand original set. Haven't opened it up but I suspect it's an 8080 or such, 360K floppy. Cute stylish setup. Misc PC cards: 16 bit ISA multi I/O card (2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 joystick, floppy, and ide) 16 bit ISA linksys etherlan16 network card 16 bit ISA VGA (JAX TVGA8900) 8 bit ISA Sound Magic (several creative labs chips) Last but not least... can't believe I'm going to let this one go, but it needs a better home. I have a Corona Data Systems PPC400-12. Jay West From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 29 18:04:46 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 Message-ID: <200401300004.QAA27490@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dave Mitton" > >Folks, > I need some help. > >I'm trying to bring up my LSI-11 system (KDA11, BA11-VA Cabinet, RX02, >VT100), and due to a basement flood a few years ago, all of my RX02 media >has been water damaged. This was my last 8" floppy system. > >The diskettes are sticking to the jacket, and some bits of the lining are >sticking to the oxide, (or vice versa) anyways I cannot get anything to >boot. I've tried cleaning a few of the media with isopropyl alcohol, but >no success yet. Hi I assume you've removed them from the covers and run them bare. Also try cleaning the pulley surfaces on the drives. Even tiny grunk here will cause read errors. The belts tend to degrade and make blobs on the pulleys. Clean heads between each experiment. I had this same problem with a number of "high quality" floppies. It seems that the adhesive used for the liners would seep through the liners onto the disk. Someone mentioned using goof-off but I've never tried such and don't recommend it without some testing first. I cleaned with isoproponal(sp?). Dwight From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 29 18:05:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <04ca01c3e6c4$c73fc6d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Dave, if no one closer can help you out, I do have a complete RT-11 v5.04 dist on RX02 media, TSX+, Fortran 2.6, USCD Pascal, Saturn Word processor... as well. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mitton" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 > Folks, > I need some help. > > I'm trying to bring up my LSI-11 system (KDA11, BA11-VA Cabinet, RX02, > VT100), and due to a basement flood a few years ago, all of my RX02 media > has been water damaged. This was my last 8" floppy system. > > The diskettes are sticking to the jacket, and some bits of the lining are > sticking to the oxide, (or vice versa) anyways I cannot get anything to > boot. I've tried cleaning a few of the media with isopropyl alcohol, but > no success yet. > > I had a complete RT-11 V4 distribution (and all the binders) but even the > DEC distribution diskettes got hit. Some of them have mold on the labels. > > > I'm looking for someone to help me with a copy of a known good bootable > RX02 RT-11 system diskette, and maybe even some diagnostics. There may be > something wrong with the drives, but given the unreliability of my media, I > cannot tell. > > I still need to sit down and single step through the bootstrap and figure > out what is bombing, but I could use to remove some variables. > > Can anyone help me? Easiest if you are in the area, I could pick up. > > Thanks, > > Dave. (In the northwest side of the Boston Area) > > > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jan 29 18:04:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <20040129221537.6d8865ae.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200401292015.PAA04961@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040129221537.6d8865ae.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200401300009.TAA07156@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> and (c) legal to run for those without licenses that are expensive >> (if obtainable at all). > Old BSD releases can be downloaded for free from the TUHS archive > since Caldera released the old UNIX stuff under a BSD licence. Calera released the V7 stuff? Cool, I didn't know that. Maybe I'll try Quasijarus sometime, then. Actually, I wonder if this means I can release mcsh. I'll have to fetch the csh source and see. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 29 18:23:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: LAST CHANCE (stuff going to dumpster tonight if unclaimed) In-Reply-To: <04c401c3e6c4$7e34bdb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Jay West wrote: > Narrow Carriage Dot Matrix printers (all believed working, good shape): > Star NX-2430 Multifont > TI Omni 800 855 w/font cartridge > Star NX-1001 Multifont > Epson LX-850 > > Honeywell Bull Miniature inkjet - about 2 inches tall, 8 inches wide, 5 > inches deep. Centronics parallel IF, Cute! Great robotics parts for you robot hackers! > Complete Epson Equity I+ system, monitor, keyboard, system unit. All epson > brand original set. Haven't opened it up but I suspect it's an 8080 or such, > 360K floppy. Cute stylish setup. 8086. > Misc PC cards: > 16 bit ISA multi I/O card (2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 joystick, floppy, and > ide) These are starting to disappear believe it or not. > Last but not least... can't believe I'm going to let this one go, but it > needs a better home. I have a Corona Data Systems PPC400-12. RARE! :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu Jan 29 18:29:39 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: New (sic) 8" floppy media? In-Reply-To: <1075416448.2207.80.camel@dhcp-248044> Message-ID: <20040130002939.65454.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com> M. Farris and Associates (www.mfarris.com) apparently sells a wide variety of legacy media products. I don't know if they are closing out new old stock or if they have an ongoing supply, but they advertise a nice selection. --Bill --- Tom Jennings wrote: > So, what's the story with current-use 8" flop media? > My brother Gregg > got my old CP/M system running, novelty is wearing > off and is willing to > part with it now :-) It's a homemade box, I forget > what's in it, though > I do remember it's got a Cromemco 4FDC with a data > separator piggyback > board from a Trash 1 living under the WD17xx chip > (the Pertecs the 4FDC > was meant for had data sep on-board). Two Shugart > drives with solidstte > relays to shut 'em off after inactivity, which is > just as well, as the > bearings now howl like crazed tiny animals. > > I have one sealed box of Dysans (list price: $65. My > price: $2 from a > stationary store in Tucson AZ closing in 1998. Wish > I had bought 'em > all.). How does this stuff hold up? I assume no one > actually makes them > anymore! > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 29 19:17:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Non-DEC DEC Field Guide? In-Reply-To: <200401292142.i0TLglPS018803@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040129201739.0088e600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:42 PM 1/29/04 -0800, Al wrote: > >all of the cards you have posted are Unibus, not Qbus > >the remex card is a reader/punch interface >the DR11C is a 16 bit parallel i/o card >L-10-B-2 appears to be a copy of a DEC M7800 serial line intf >the CDS is some sort of disc interface >and the DSD board is a unibus interface for a DSD440 floppy > > Oops! I guess I was confusing Q-bus and Quad size. Thanks for the info on the cards. I wondered about the DSD board. I was hoping it was the interface card. I know a couple of people that have the DSD units but no interface. I think I might even have one around here. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 29 19:33:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <200401292346.PAA27479@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040129203320.00853100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I doubt that it's quartz glass because they have to be able to soften it so that they can bend it. but I think it's close to quartz. I don't know what caused the glow but they pull as hard of a vacuum on it as they can while they bake it. I don't know if the white color is an arc inside the tube or the tube itself. You can make ordinary chemicalware glass glow red/orange with an alcohol flame and a blowpipe. I used to make all my own lab ware. Joe At 03:46 PM 1/29/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > Ordinary glass glows a little redish yellow in a dark room, >when melted. Quartz glass if definitely white hot, when >melted. I don't think they are using quartz glass for neon >signs, though. >Dwight > > >>From: "Teo Zenios" >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe R." >>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> >>Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:18 PM >>Subject: RE: Voltage & Current.. >> >> >>> At 12:02 PM 1/29/04 -0800, you wrote: >>> >> > I think perhaps it's best for Lyos to maintain his present beliefs >>about >>> >> > voltage and current. Over time I'm sure he'll collect more empirical >>> >> > data to either confirm or deny his hypothesis (though quite likely at >>> >> > some cost if he's as stubborn in his beliefs as I suspect the case to >>> >> > be). >>> >On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: >>> >> In other words, blows himself up with a 3kV-to-240v electricity pole >>> >> transformer? >>> > >>> >Would that damage the transformer? (how many amps are those?) >>> >>> I believe that they're AT LEAST 1 Amp ON THE 3kV SIDE! The neon sign >>> manufacturer's use them to step the 240 back up to 2 or 3 kV at 1 Amp to >>> burn the gasses out of the glass walls of tubes that they use to make neon >>> signs with. They run them at ~1 Amp for 24 hours and the tubes are almost >>> white hot. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>Funny, All the glass/quarts tubes I have seen don't glow any color even when >>melting. >> >> >> >> > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jan 29 19:51:43 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: Toy Computer K-30 and IMSAI 8080 go high on eBay References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040128042219.0564aec8@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <4019B8AF.9050706@tiac.net> Not if your the person waiting for me to email them off list! And you think Sellam is being silly here? Geoff Reed wrote: > At 10:50 PM 1/27/2004, you wrote: > >> On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: >> >> > Please contact me off list regarding the IMSAI. Thanks. >> >> Um, why didn't you just e-mail Bob off-list directly? > > > Silly Sellam, it's more fun this way :P > From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 29 22:21:07 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: LAST CHANCE (stuff going to dumpster tonight if unclaimed) Message-ID: >> Misc PC cards: >> 16 bit ISA multi I/O card (2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 joystick, floppy, and >> ide) > >These are starting to disappear believe it or not. Yeah because people like me chuck box loads of them when we can no longer store them, and can't find anyone to take them. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jan 29 22:36:36 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:57 2005 Subject: LAST CHANCE (stuff going to dumpster tonight if unclaimed) References: Message-ID: <00af01c3e6ea$a52f1d90$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:21 PM Subject: Re: LAST CHANCE (stuff going to dumpster tonight if unclaimed) > >> Misc PC cards: > >> 16 bit ISA multi I/O card (2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 joystick, floppy, and > >> ide) > > > >These are starting to disappear believe it or not. > > Yeah because people like me chuck box loads of them when we can no longer > store them, and can't find anyone to take them. > > -chris > > > Most 16 bit ISA cards are still plentiful, everybody who has been using a PC since the late 80's or later has some. The cards that were rare back then are still rare now (the extremely high end gear of any generation has some residual collector value). Besides a few old modems (no idea why I haven't tossed them yet) I have nothing for 8 bit pc cards. Anybody who has an extra 8 bit scsi card that has IRQ relocatable to 2 via jumpers, short length card, has external scsi port, and don't want it let me know. I want to rig an scsi card to the plus connector on my Tandy 1000hx to use external scsi hd's. I think while some people might want a card or 2 nobody wants a boxload of somebody else's gear just to get 1 part they need (shipping wouldn't make it worth it). From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 29 22:37:43 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? References: <200401291131.i0TBVAC27702@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <000401c3e6ea$cdfa1400$1a02a8c0@starship1> Ultrix was written for MIPS processors wasn't it??? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Parker" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:31 AM Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? > > Can anyone tell me if there is a version of Ultrix which will boot on an > 11/730? > > And if so, can I grab media files off the net somewhere? > > (I know 4.3bsd would, and I'd like to fool around with netbsd but it > seems like ultrix might be a good way to bootstrap) > > or, is there a better place to ask? (pups? tuhs?) > > -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 29 22:42:38 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0401300442.AA26840@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Curt vendel wrote: > Ultrix was written for MIPS processors wasn't it??? I guess you are too young to remember VAX Ultrix. :-) First there was Ultrix-11 for PDP-11 (DEC's stolen V7 UNIX). Then Ultrix-32 for the VAX (DEC's stolen 4.2BSD). Whenever I say Ultrix, I mean Ultrix-32 for the VAX. Ultrix-32 was then ported to MIPS. MS From MGemeny at pgcps.org Thu Jan 29 22:43:43 2004 From: MGemeny at pgcps.org (Mike Gemeny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) Message-ID: Jay asked about benchmarks for SIMH running HP2000 Access, Here's a quick chain test for doing 255 (+-) chains with timing for my SIMH configuration as described (about 23 sec.) I would hope that real hardware would out perform it. If not I'll have to think about what could be wrong with the simulator and come up with another test. Let me know what you get, Jay, next time you have her up. Thanks again, Mike. list CHATST 10 COM A$[255] 20 IF LEN(A$)=255 THEN 70 30 IF LEN(A$)#0 THEN 50 40 PRINT TIM(0),TIM(4) 50 A$[LEN(A$)+1]="A" 60 CHAIN X,"chatst" 70 PRINT TIM(0),TIM(4) 80 END run CHATST 39 22 39 45 DONE cat NAME LENGTH RECORD NAME LENGTH RECORD NAME LENGTH RECORD BTEST 1 CATT AL 5 63 CHATST C 1 DT 1 FPTS9 2 HI 1 KLFW 1 PR0 AL PR0 64 ROS00 AL 7 63 SIGNIN 1 SUM 1 WORLD 1 From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Jan 29 23:15:56 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? References: <0401300442.AA26840@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <001101c3e6f0$2450cb00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Ah! Sorry, I didn't get into Dec Vax stuff until 94' and didn't start working with Ultrix till 95' I remember we got into the lab I think it was a Dec Infoserver, their first webserver and it was running Ultrix as I recall, I really liked the way Ultrix worked, much better then Solaris and SunOS which I has also just gotten started using around 94' as well. Actually, I think the infoserver was running OSF Unix??? Hmmmmm, brain ain't what it used to be :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: Re: Ultrix on an 11/730? > Curt vendel wrote: > > > Ultrix was written for MIPS processors wasn't it??? > > I guess you are too young to remember VAX Ultrix. :-) First there was Ultrix-11 > for PDP-11 (DEC's stolen V7 UNIX). Then Ultrix-32 for the VAX (DEC's stolen > 4.2BSD). Whenever I say Ultrix, I mean Ultrix-32 for the VAX. Ultrix-32 was > then ported to MIPS. > > MS From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 29 23:38:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: LAST CHANCE (stuff going to dumpster tonight if unclaimed) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, chris wrote: > >> Misc PC cards: > >> 16 bit ISA multi I/O card (2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 joystick, floppy, and > >> ide) > > > >These are starting to disappear believe it or not. > > Yeah because people like me chuck box loads of them when we can no longer > store them, and can't find anyone to take them. Such is as it is. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 29 23:53:39 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0401300553.AA26914@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Curt vendel wrote: > Ah! Sorry, I didn't get into Dec Vax stuff until 94' and didn't start > working with Ultrix till 95' I started my VAX life at an even later date! 1997. So yes, I am a late comer to the club. I saw a VAX for the first time in my life in 1997. But I wanted to run 4.3BSD and I was determined to do whatever it takes to do it. So I learned the VAX terminology and genealogy, learned how to make my way around the VAX world, and learned that original 4.3BSD ran only on VAXen so huge and so rare (an 11/7xx wasn't exactly a readily obtainable item even in 1997, much less today) that I would never be able to run one. I learned that to make 4.3BSD run on a VAX of the kind I could lay my hands on and run in an apartment I would have to actually do major work on the code first. Now imagine me back then in 1997-98 thinking about the prospect of making major changes to a VAX UNIX kernel while having virtually no knowledge of VAX architecture and system programming. But I was determined. A good ClassicCmp friend provided me with literature (VAX Architecture Reference Manual, VAX Architecture Handbook, and VAX Hardware Handbook), and I learned the VAX architecture and instruction set. I read and studied everything I could about VAXen. And it has paid off: I know VAX really well now, people consult with me on deep VAX hardware questions, I successfully maintain a VAX operating system, and I'm even working in the background (though not too many cycles dedicated to it right now) on the design of a new VAX CPU chip. > I remember we got into the lab I think it > was a Dec Infoserver, their first webserver and it was running Ultrix as I > recall, [...] > Actually, I think the infoserver was running OSF Unix??? Maybe we are talking about different things, but InfoServer runs a special proprietary embedded OS and it is not a web server, it talks a special proprietary protocol. Unless I'm totally mistaken on that one. (InfoServer was a fairly unusual beast.) MS From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 30 03:04:41 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Sort of OT: Hakko Solder equipment Message-ID: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Nowhere near 10 years old, but ClassicCmp is the place most likely to know.... A surplus barn here is getting a huge lot of factory refurb Hakko 939 solder stations. He says he'll be getting $150 for them, with a 90-day warranty from Hakko. He has one as a sample from his supplier, and it looks NIB. That unit is much more sophisticated than I really need. I convert serial & graphics cables for my toys, touch up the odd dry joint or scratched-out trace, chase fire ants, and hack potentially lethal PSUs into my print servers. (Yeah, I had to go there) However, even a decent used setup that'll behave nicely for what I do is going to run me $100, so I'd rather splurge a little than inherit somebody else's scorch marks. Back to the point, has anyone on-list used Hakko gear? Like it, or not? Or does anybody have a recommendation for a better deal in the $100-150 range? Doc From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Jan 30 03:11:07 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401300553.AA26914@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0401300553.AA26914@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <3CA8F4B2-5304-11D8-8F67-000A957FD620@kerberos.davies.net.au> On 30 Jan 2004, at 16:53, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > Maybe we are talking about different things, but InfoServer runs a > special > proprietary embedded OS and it is not a web server, it talks a special > proprietary protocol. Unless I'm totally mistaken on that one. > (InfoServer > was a fairly unusual beast.) I thought Infoservers ran VMS.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 30 03:19:52 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <000401c3e6ea$cdfa1400$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <200401291131.i0TBVAC27702@mwave.heeltoe.com> <000401c3e6ea$cdfa1400$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20040130101952.44e32834.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:37:43 -0500 "Curt vendel" wrote: > Ultrix was written for MIPS processors wasn't it??? No. VAX (and ULTRIX-11 for PDP-11). It was ported to MIPS when DEC brought the DECstation 3100 to market in 1989. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From thompson at new.rr.com Fri Jan 30 07:03:50 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <3CA8F4B2-5304-11D8-8F67-000A957FD620@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Huw Davies wrote: > On 30 Jan 2004, at 16:53, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > > Maybe we are talking about different things, but InfoServer runs a > > special > > proprietary embedded OS and it is not a web server, it talks a special > > proprietary protocol. Unless I'm totally mistaken on that one. > > (InfoServer > > was a fairly unusual beast.) > > I thought Infoservers ran VMS.... > The original Infoserver 100 runs ESS on a uVAX cpu - an embedded OS. Not sure about later ones. From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Jan 30 07:38:58 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Sort of OT: Hakko Solder equipment In-Reply-To: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <401A5E72.5090000@jcwren.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > Nowhere near 10 years old, but ClassicCmp is the place most likely > to know.... > > A surplus barn here is getting a huge lot of factory refurb Hakko > 939 solder stations. He says he'll be getting $150 for them, with a > 90-day warranty from Hakko. He has one as a sample from his supplier, > and it looks NIB. > > That unit is much more sophisticated than I really need. I convert > serial & graphics cables for my toys, touch up the odd dry joint or > scratched-out trace, chase fire ants, and hack potentially lethal PSUs > into my print servers. (Yeah, I had to go there) However, even a > decent used setup that'll behave nicely for what I do is going to run > me $100, so I'd rather splurge a little than inherit somebody else's > scorch marks. > > Back to the point, has anyone on-list used Hakko gear? Like it, or > not? > > Or does anybody have a recommendation for a better deal in the > $100-150 range? > > > Doc > Hakkos are good equipment. I've had occasion to use them, and while they're incomparable to a Metcal, they're better than your average Weller WTC-201. The card that HAS to come with it allows changing the temperature. The idea is that a production floor supervisor or specialist sets the temperature the line person will use, or , depending on the model, allow them to select from a couple different temperatures. $150 seems pretty decent for a new one, although they go all over the map on eBay. You might check the sold auctions to see what they're getting these days. Oh, and tips are not unreasonable priced for this irons. --jc From rws at ripco.com Fri Jan 30 08:38:46 2004 From: rws at ripco.com (Richard Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Sort of OT: Hakko Solder equipment In-Reply-To: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > A surplus barn here is getting a huge lot of factory refurb Hakko 939 > solder stations. He says he'll be getting $150 for them, with a 90-day > warranty from Hakko. He has one as a sample from his supplier, and it > looks NIB. > Back to the point, has anyone on-list used Hakko gear? Like it, or > not? I am the Service Dept. Manager for a medium-sized radio remote control company, and I purchase all the tools and equipment. I use only Hakko desoldering stations, and only Edsyn soldering irons. I do have a Hakko 703 station with a soldering iron (same as the one on the 939 you're considering), a 950 hot tweezers for SMT work, and a 807 solder sucker. I'm very happy with all the equipment on that unit. I only use that iron for fine work; usually I use my Edsyn 951SX ($160) for general soldering. Tips are not expensive for the Hakko iron. They last a long time; the only tips that last longer in my experience, are the ones for the Edsyn. I got 5 years, 40 hrs/week out of my last general purpose tip for the Edsyn. It does have a temperature-changing punched card, if you hadn't seen. You do need the card, but fortunately it's a punch card (not magnetic or anything) and I made one out of cardboard when we had some contract employees who were re-working some SMT capacitors on one of our boards, and their irons were "permanently" set to 900 degrees. I didn't let *that* go on for long. If you need a card, I can probably find my cardboard one, or give you the number of a Hakko distributor. Let me know if you have any more questions, Richard Schauer From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Jan 30 09:20:25 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Sort of OT: Hakko Solder equipment In-Reply-To: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1052.65.123.179.155.1075476025.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > Back to the point, has anyone on-list used Hakko gear? Like it, or > not? > > Or does anybody have a recommendation for a better deal in the > $100-150 range? > > > Doc I've used both a low-end soldering station and the Hakko desoldering 'pistol'. The soldering iron is okay, but I tend to like the beefiness of a Weller better. I did like thedesoldering tool, as long as you kept it clean it worked great. For refurbed equip I'd say the 150 tag might be a little high, but you are probably buying another warranty from Hakko. Caveat emptor, and YMMV. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Jan 30 12:41:08 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 Message-ID: Has anyone gotten the cross compiler successfully built? I keep trying, and keep failing... 8-) Cheers, Chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 30 12:37:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Sort of OT: Hakko Solder equipment In-Reply-To: <569DAF1A-5303-11D8-8BED-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040130133739.00809ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Doc, A friend of mine uses the Hakko stuff and really loves them. He picks them up at the hamfests for $30 or $40. I think $150 is way out of line. Check E-bay and see what they're going for there. Personally I use an adjustable temp controlled Weller solder station and I'm very happy with it. If you do get the Hakko unit make dammed sure that you get the metal card that lets you reset the terperature. They frequently show up without the card but you can't change the temperature without it. Joe At 03:04 AM 1/30/04 -0600, you wrote: > Nowhere near 10 years old, but ClassicCmp is the place most likely to >know.... > > A surplus barn here is getting a huge lot of factory refurb Hakko 939 >solder stations. He says he'll be getting $150 for them, with a 90-day >warranty from Hakko. He has one as a sample from his supplier, and it >looks NIB. > > That unit is much more sophisticated than I really need. I convert >serial & graphics cables for my toys, touch up the odd dry joint or >scratched-out trace, chase fire ants, and hack potentially lethal PSUs >into my print servers. (Yeah, I had to go there) However, even a >decent used setup that'll behave nicely for what I do is going to run >me $100, so I'd rather splurge a little than inherit somebody else's >scorch marks. > > Back to the point, has anyone on-list used Hakko gear? Like it, or >not? > > Or does anybody have a recommendation for a better deal in the >$100-150 range? > > > Doc > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 30 12:46:43 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Sort of OT: Hakko Solder equipment In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040130133739.00809ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130133739.00809ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Jan 30, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Joe R. wrote: > > A friend of mine uses the Hakko stuff and really loves them. He picks > them up at the hamfests for $30 or $40. I think $150 is way out of > line. > Check E-bay and see what they're going for there. Personally I use an > adjustable temp controlled Weller solder station and I'm very happy > with > it. If you do get the Hakko unit make dammed sure that you get the > metal > card that lets you reset the terperature. They frequently show up > without > the card but you can't change the temperature without it. I wouldn't even consider over $100 for a random used setup. These are refurbished, reboxed, and warranteed by Hakko. They do come with the key card. eBay doesn't show much in the temp-controlled lines, and there are a couple of dealers online that get $150-249 for the refurbs, and over $400 for NOS. I've used Weller gear and like it, but IMO there's a pretty hefty price premium on the name. Plus, most of the time when their high-end stuff shows up used, it's been rode hard and put up wet. Doc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 30 13:05:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Sort of OT: Hakko Solder equipment In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040130133739.00809ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040130133739.00809ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040130140512.00879e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:46 PM 1/30/04 -0600, you wrote: >On Jan 30, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Joe R. wrote: >> >> A friend of mine uses the Hakko stuff and really loves them. He picks >> them up at the hamfests for $30 or $40. I think $150 is way out of >> line. >> Check E-bay and see what they're going for there. Personally I use an >> adjustable temp controlled Weller solder station and I'm very happy >> with >> it. If you do get the Hakko unit make dammed sure that you get the >> metal >> card that lets you reset the terperature. They frequently show up >> without >> the card but you can't change the temperature without it. > > I wouldn't even consider over $100 for a random used setup. These >are refurbished, reboxed, and warranteed by Hakko. They do come with >the key card. > > eBay doesn't show much in the temp-controlled lines, and there are a >couple of dealers online that get $150-249 for the refurbs, and over >$400 for NOS. > > I've used Weller gear and like it, but IMO there's a pretty hefty >price premium on the name. Plus, most of the time when their high-end >stuff shows up used, it's been rode hard and put up wet. I guess that depends on where the stuff comes from. I get a lot of stuff from Martin Marietta and Hassis Corp. Both are large US government contractors. They buy the GOOD stuff and take care of it and at the end of a contract they dispose of it even if it's never been used. So when I get it I seldom have trouble with the stuff. FWIW I've picked up used Weller SSs that work perfectly and resold them at the hamfests for $20. YMMV Personally, I use a Weller EC3000 and I'm completely satisfied with it. Joe > > > Doc > > From patrick at evocative.com Fri Jan 30 13:11:40 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: OT: Cisco IOS 11.2 Software Kits w/Serial Numbers Available (2) Message-ID: I have two Cisco IOS 11.2 Software Feature Packs (IP) available. Both kits have original serial numbers in the box. I don't have the routers any more (2500 series). Up for grabs to first responder(s) (private reply please) for cost of shipping. They're outta here, or they're in Monday's trash. :-) --Patrick From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 30 13:27:03 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <002101c3e767$18e340a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I have a copy of VAX-11/730 console and microcode cassette > with microcode version 58, which almost certainly has this > bug fixed. Unfortunately it is not a virgin copy but a > mutilated one. It was copied under Vampirist Mediocre System > (VMS) which did not do a true block-for-block copy like UNIX > dd, but parsed the original RT-11 filesystem and copied only > the files, constructing a new RT-11 filesystem on the copy, It's true that EXHANGE has no way of performing an image copy, but I would have thought that BACKUP/PHYSICAL would have done that, if the original copier had wanted to achieve that effect. (I don't have a VAX-11/730 to hand, so I'm not able to check that BACKUP would handle a TU58 properly, but in principle it should). However, I do know that the TU58 on the VAX-11/750 was the slowest boot device I've ever come across. This was not made any better by the fact that the files on the TU58 were probably in a non-optimal order for the specific config I was running. (The optimal order depended IIRC on exactly how you chose to boot). In fact, the CSC must have had one complaint too many about this as, at one time, there was a procedure available which would write a new tape in the optimal order for your requirements. If the same was true for the VAX-11/730, perhaps what you have is such an "optimised" tape. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 30 13:28:37 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401300442.AA26840@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <002201c3e767$4bd9f990$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I guess you are too young to remember VAX Ultrix. :-) First > there was Ultrix-11 for PDP-11 (DEC's stolen V7 UNIX). Then Stolen? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tomj at wps.com Fri Jan 30 13:44:23 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: HP1650B Logic Analyzer, diskette format? Message-ID: <1075491121.1625.16.camel@dhcp-250093> I'm getting close to off-topic, but it (1) is > 10 yrs old and (2) contains a computer... :-) Does anyone have any idea what the diskette format is? It's not DSDD 512 byte sectors, eg. dd won't read it on a linux box. Luckily the analyzer's OS has a disk-dup feature, so I can make copies, but it would be nice to archive a copy. (On a related note, if anyone has a PDF of the users manual I'd appreciate it... I bought this used for the University, I figured out most of the big chunks but a manual would sure be handy. I have the Maintenance manual, which tells you how to unpack it and shows all the various interesting flavors of power cord.) From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 30 13:30:19 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <0401300553.AA26914@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <002301c3e767$8cacf9e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Maybe we are talking about different things, but InfoServer > runs a special proprietary embedded OS and it is not a web > server, it talks a special proprietary protocol. Unless I'm > totally mistaken on that one. (InfoServer was a fairly > unusual beast.) You're right on all counts. I forget whether the OS was VAXeln or whether it was home-brewed. It definitely was not a web server (it was a disk/tape server). It spoke a few protocols and IIRC they were proprietary (LAST and LAD) - I don't know their current status. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Jan 30 13:47:21 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:27:03 GMT." <002101c3e767$18e340a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200401301947.i0UJlLI09315@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > >However, I do know that the TU58 on the VAX-11/750 was >the slowest boot device I've ever come across. Has anyone tried either of the tu58 "emulators"? I found one software tar and another hardware device. The software version was written by Dan Ts'o. It implies that one could connect a pc with a serial port in place of the tu58 and boot using the pc. (and intriguing idea, I must say...) is the tu58 basically a serial device? -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 30 13:52:00 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0401301952.AA27506@ivan.Harhan.ORG> > is the tu58 basically a serial device? It is. From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Jan 30 14:35:17 2004 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <200401302035.i0UKZHKI091013@io.crash.com> Brad Parker wrote: . > Has anyone tried either of the tu58 "emulators"? I found one > software tar and another hardware device. Here are the two items Brad referred to: Spare Time Gizmo's solid-state TU58 replacement: http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm A copy of Dan Dan Tso's software emulator, originally written to run under 4.2BSD: http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Emulators/TU58/ I haven't tried either one yet -- I still need to figure out how to get mass storage for my 11/730... FYI, --Steve. From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jan 29 15:54:23 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <200401282341.SAA14683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <000801c3e778$ce248ee0$f7484ed5@geoff> Hey , c'mon - there's no need for that - there's some nice trolls out there. Apologise immediately. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:21 PM Subject: Re: Voltage & Current.. > >> Voltage was EXACTLY the same... > > Actual voltage was the same, or rated voltage marked on the wallwart > was the same? There's a huge difference between the two. > > >> Come on... explain that one, eh? Bet ya can't > > You lose. > > Explanation #1: The wallwart or the device you plugged it into failed > for other reasons (eg, a small scrap of something conductive fell into > it), synchronously with your switching wallwarts. > > Explanation #2: The device is (well, was) picky about its input voltage > and you switched from a regulated wallwart to an unregulated wallwart; > see the previous discussion about how unreg wallwarts' output voltage > varies. > > Explanation #3: You made a mistake when checking voltage and polarity > (eg, you checked a wallwart other than the one actually used). > > Oh, and lest we forget: > > Explanation #4: You're a troll. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Jan 30 16:02:41 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <000801c3e778$ce248ee0$f7484ed5@geoff> from Geoffrey Thomas at "Jan 29, 4 09:54:23 pm" Message-ID: <200401302202.OAA12898@floodgap.com> > Hey , c'mon - there's no need for that - there's some nice trolls out there. Only in fantasy books. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Good times, noodle salad. -- "As Good As It Gets" -------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 30 16:21:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200401301947.i0UJlLI09315@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Jan 30, 4 02:47:21 pm Message-ID: > is the tu58 basically a serial device? Generally, yes. The serial port can be configured to be RS232 or RS422 IIRC by some jumpers on the board. There's another jumper to set the baud rate. At the bit level it uses the normal asynchronous protocol (like most common serial ports), the format of the command packets, etc is given in the manual The reason I say 'gnerally serial' is that the printset I have for the TU58 also gives schematics for a parallel version. I've never seen this one, though. The TU58 in my 11/730 CPU is certainly the standard serial version (even though the 2 drives and the controller card are physically arranged somewhat strangely) -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 30 16:46:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. It has a 20 Gb hard drive and all four SIMM sockets are filled. It has the biggest, strangest SIMMS that I've ever seen. They're shaped kind of like a T and the top is longer than the bottom and are crammed full of ICs. No idea of the amount of memory or CPU speed since I can't get to the OS. It's a model 380-0111-01. Does anyone know where I can get the specs for that specific model? Joe From wpointon at earthlink.net Fri Jan 30 17:03:35 2004 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (william pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <882A643A-5378-11D8-8A0E-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> heres ths ultra 10 page - http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Systems/U10/components.html dont see that model number though - -billp On Friday, Jan 30, 2004, at 17:46 US/Eastern, Joe R. wrote: > Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal > mode > because I don't have a keyboard attached. It has a 20 Gb hard drive > and all > four SIMM sockets are filled. It has the biggest, strangest SIMMS that > I've > ever seen. They're shaped kind of like a T and the top is longer than > the > bottom and are crammed full of ICs. No idea of the amount of memory or > CPU > speed since I can't get to the OS. It's a model 380-0111-01. Does > anyone > know where I can get the specs for that specific model? > > Joe > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jan 30 17:08:37 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Voltage & Current.. In-Reply-To: <000801c3e778$ce248ee0$f7484ed5@geoff> References: <20040128143737.27797.qmail@web41710.mail.yahoo.com> <200401282341.SAA14683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <000801c3e778$ce248ee0$f7484ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <200401302311.SAA25720@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> "Geoffrey Thomas" top-posts > Hey , c'mon - there's no need for that - there's some nice trolls out > there. > Apologise immediately. in resposne to an unspecified part of message of mine, presumably this >> Oh, and lest we forget: >> Explanation #4: You're a troll. Yes, someone already took me to task off-list for insulting trolls. I apologize to all nice trolls out there (except for those who prefer the British way, to whom I apologise instead). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jan 30 17:14:09 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401302315.SAA25776@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 > Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal > mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. And won't boot as well? Odd. > No idea of the amount of memory or CPU speed since I can't get to the > OS. Older Suns report their RAM config and at least some info about their CPU in the ROM-generated banner. If it has the "ok " prompt the older machines use, typing "banner" at it might do something useful. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 30 17:24:48 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: LXY11 and LXY21 DIAGS Message-ID: <7F3A7DDE-537B-11D8-A69F-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> I was sorting through all the bulk-erased DEC media last night listing the OS's and software "I coulda had", and found one item I'm pretty sure hasn't been degaussed - the "LXY11 and LXY21 DIAGS", P/N YM-Z049D-AA on paper tape. It looks like it's never been run. Slick. It's a darn shame I don't have a reader. Doc From alberto at a2sistemi.it Fri Jan 30 17:53:53 2004 From: alberto at a2sistemi.it (Alberto Rubinelli - A2 Sistemi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: HP1650B Logic Analyzer, diskette format? In-Reply-To: <1075491121.1625.16.camel@dhcp-250093> Message-ID: > Does anyone have any idea what the diskette format is? It's not DSDD 512 > byte sectors, eg. dd won't read it on a linux box. I'm not sure, but is a format similar on the format used on HP64000. Anyone can confirm ? Alberto ------------------------------------------------------ Alberto Rubinelli Mail : alberto@a2sistemi.it A2 SISTEMI Web : www.a2sistemi.it Via Costantino Perazzi 22 Tel 0321 640149 28100 NOVARA (NO) - ITALY Fax 0321 391769 Il mio museo di vecchi computers/My old computers museum http://www.retrocomputing.net ICQ : 49872318 ODIGO : 5269083 ------------------------------------------------------ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 30 19:17:54 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401302315.SAA25776@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Jan 30, 2004 06:14:09 PM Message-ID: <200401310117.i0V1HsZS022423@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal > > mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. > > And won't boot as well? Odd. I suspect he's stuck at the OpenBoot prompt with no way of telling it to boot. > > No idea of the amount of memory or CPU speed since I can't get to the > > OS. > > Older Suns report their RAM config and at least some info about their > CPU in the ROM-generated banner. If it has the "ok " prompt the older > machines use, typing "banner" at it might do something useful. An Ultra 10 will take a max of 1Gb. The CPU speeds range from 300Mhz - 440Mhz, IIRC. It should display this info on the screen when you power it on. It's a nice machine, but unless you can replace the IDE disk with a SCSI controller and disk, the disk is a real bottleneck. My 300Mhz U10 came with an ATA33 disk that didn't even run at 5400RPM! I still need to get it switched to SCSI :^( Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 30 19:20:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401302315.SAA25776@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040130202007.00849530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:14 PM 1/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >> Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 > >> Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal >> mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. > >And won't boot as well? Odd. It probably is trying to boot but I don't have a keyboard attached so it reports that there's no keyboard attached and that it will connect to a terminal on COM 1. Then the screen blanks out. > >> No idea of the amount of memory or CPU speed since I can't get to the >> OS. > >Older Suns report their RAM config and at least some info about their >CPU in the ROM-generated banner. If it has the "ok " prompt the older >machines use, typing "banner" at it might do something useful. It never gets that far without the keyboard. I have a keyboard in storage. I'll go get it tomorrow. Joe > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jan 30 19:25:53 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040130202007.00849530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040130174614.007dcba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040130202007.00849530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401310127.UAA27162@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into >>> terminal mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. >> And won't boot as well? Odd. > It probably is trying to boot but I don't have a keyboard attached so > it reports that there's no keyboard attached and that it will connect > to a terminal on COM 1. Then the screen blanks out. Oh, I misunderstood. I assumed you'd got a terminal, or a computer running a terminal emulator, attached to the serial port. Yes, if you don't give it something on the serial port, you'll need a keyboard to do anything more than unattended boot (and that much only if there is a bootable OS available to it). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 30 20:23:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401310117.i0V1HsZS022423@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200401302315.SAA25776@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040130212300.008292f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:17 PM 1/30/04 -0800, you wrote: >> > Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal >> > mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. >> >> And won't boot as well? Odd. > >I suspect he's stuck at the OpenBoot prompt with no way of telling it to >boot. > >> > No idea of the amount of memory or CPU speed since I can't get to the >> > OS. >> >> Older Suns report their RAM config and at least some info about their >> CPU in the ROM-generated banner. If it has the "ok " prompt the older >> machines use, typing "banner" at it might do something useful. > >An Ultra 10 will take a max of 1Gb. The CPU speeds range from 300Mhz - >440Mhz, IIRC. It should display this info on the screen when you power it >on. > >It's a nice machine, but unless you can replace the IDE disk with a SCSI >controller and disk, the disk is a real bottleneck. My 300Mhz U10 came with >an ATA33 disk that didn't even run at 5400RPM! I still need to get it >switched to SCSI :^( > > Zane > I just got home and opened it up. Things are looking good! It has four sticks of Kingston KTS7030/512 memory. I looked them up online. Each pair is 512Mb so that means it has 1Gb of RAM! The hard drive is a Seagate Barracuda II model ST320420A. That's an Ultra ATA/66 8.5 mS 7200RPM 20.4Gb drive. It's not SCSI but it will do! The CPU is PN 501-5040. That's a 300 Mhz UltraSpark IIi CPU with a ceramic CPU and 512k cache. It's not the fastest thing out there but again, it will do! Now where can I find Windeos for this thing? :-) Seriously, I found an Adaptec AHA-2940W/2940UW PCI SCSI controller today. Will it work in the SUN? Joe Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 30 20:23:49 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: GRiD PalmPAD 2350s Message-ID: <81169382-5394-11D8-A69F-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> I picked up a couple today, mostly because they were there. On has no stylus, and neither has an AC adapter, so I'm not likely to do a whole lot with them. They don't look beat up, and there's one carry case. So, choice one would be to find an AC adapter, and whatever other accessories, Real Cheap. Choice two is does anybody need one or both for parts spares? Choice most likely is they go into the "Cute Things I Have Part Of" drawer instead of the refiner. :) Doc From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 30 20:30:59 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040130212300.008292f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jan 30, 2004 09:23:00 PM Message-ID: <200401310230.i0V2Ux9R024233@onyx.spiritone.com> > I just got home and opened it up. Things are looking good! It has four > sticks of Kingston KTS7030/512 memory. I looked them up online. Each pair > is 512Mb so that means it has 1Gb of RAM! The hard drive is a Seagate > Barracuda II model ST320420A. That's an Ultra ATA/66 8.5 mS 7200RPM 20.4Gb > drive. It's not SCSI but it will do! The CPU is PN 501-5040. That's a 300 > Mhz UltraSpark IIi CPU with a ceramic CPU and 512k cache. It's not the > fastest thing out there but again, it will do! Nice, you've got about the same system as I do, I've only got an 8Gb 7200RPM drive, but I've got the nice Creator 3D card in it. Mine came with 640Mb RAM, but I found some that would work in it, and upgraded to 1Gb. > Now where can I find Windeos for this thing? :-) Har, har.... On a serious note, I'd not recommend trying to run OpenBSD on it, that about drove me crazy. First time I've ever seen starting X-Windows crash a system! > Seriously, I found an Adaptec AHA-2940W/2940UW PCI SCSI controller today. > Will it work in the SUN? No. You need a Symbios SYM 22801 controller, I thing if you get the right PC board you can do a substitute though. There are also a couple others that will work. Zane From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 30 20:31:05 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040130212300.008292f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200401302315.SAA25776@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3.0.6.32.20040130212300.008292f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <84FE1325-5395-11D8-A69F-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 30, 2004, at 8:23 PM, Joe R. wrote: > I just got home and opened it up. Things are looking good! It has > four > sticks of Kingston KTS7030/512 memory. I looked them up online. Each > pair > is 512Mb so that means it has 1Gb of RAM! The hard drive is a Seagate > Barracuda II model ST320420A. That's an Ultra ATA/66 8.5 mS 7200RPM > 20.4Gb > drive. It's not SCSI but it will do! The CPU is PN 501-5040. That's a > 300 > Mhz UltraSpark IIi CPU with a ceramic CPU and 512k cache. It's not the > fastest thing out there but again, it will do! That's a damn fine catch, Joe. Like Zane said, the IDE subsystem is slow as payday, but other than that it's a sweet machine. > Now where can I find Windeos for this thing? :-) You just missed SoftWindows For Unix on eBay.... Or, you can snag one of those AMD SunPCi cards that are going nearly for free and run plain old NT or Win2K on it. :) > Seriously, I found an Adaptec AHA-2940W/2940UW PCI SCSI controller > today. > Will it work in the SUN? Probly not, unless you run $Free_OS on it. Most anything with a Symbios chip will work, but you may have to boot from the IDE disk. I know for a fact that an IBM-badged 53C875 out of an RS/6000 will boot that box. Doc From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 30 20:43:57 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <84FE1325-5395-11D8-A69F-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Jan 30, 2004 08:31:05 PM Message-ID: <200401310243.i0V2hvwq024404@onyx.spiritone.com> > You just missed SoftWindows For Unix on eBay.... Or, you can snag > one of those AMD SunPCi cards that are going nearly for free and run > plain old NT or Win2K on it. :) Bleep, how did I forget about those! I've been wanting to get one of the Celeron based ones for my system, but can't justify the cost (my real Unix system is a G5 dual 2Ghz running Mac OS X 10.3.2). Another option would be WABI, but you might have to run Solaris 2.5.1 for that. Personally the systems I'd like to get Softwindows running on would be either my SGI O2 R12k/270, or a OpenVMS system :^) Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 30 20:56:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Mike, ONE of today's finds :-) Also got three SUN SparcStations 20s and a SparcServer 20 with some extra cards in them. Also lots of odds and ends. Joe At 05:17 PM 1/30/04 -0800, you wrote: >> > Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal >> > mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. >> >> And won't boot as well? Odd. > >I suspect he's stuck at the OpenBoot prompt with no way of telling it to >boot. > >> > No idea of the amount of memory or CPU speed since I can't get to the >> > OS. >> >> Older Suns report their RAM config and at least some info about their >> CPU in the ROM-generated banner. If it has the "ok " prompt the older >> machines use, typing "banner" at it might do something useful. > >An Ultra 10 will take a max of 1Gb. The CPU speeds range from 300Mhz - >440Mhz, IIRC. It should display this info on the screen when you power it >on. > >It's a nice machine, but unless you can replace the IDE disk with a SCSI >controller and disk, the disk is a real bottleneck. My 300Mhz U10 came with >an ATA33 disk that didn't even run at 5400RPM! I still need to get it >switched to SCSI :^( > > Zane > I just got home and opened it up. Things are looking good! It has four sticks of Kingston KTS7030/512 memory. I looked them up online. Each pair is 512Mb so that means it has 1Gb of RAM! The hard drive is a Seagate Barracuda II model ST320420A. That's an Ultra ATA/66 8.5 mS 7200RPM 20.4Gb drive. It's not SCSI but it will do! The CPU is PN 501-5040. That's a 300 Mhz UltraSpark IIi CPU with a ceramic CPU and 512k cache. It's not the fastest thing out there but again, it will do! Now where can I find Windeos for this thing? :-) Seriously, I found an Adaptec AHA-2940W/2940UW PCI SCSI controller today. Will it work in the SUN? Joe Joe From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 30 21:47:25 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401310243.i0V2hvwq024404@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jan 30, 2004 06:43:57 PM Message-ID: <20040131034725.5B1D37F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Personally the systems I'd like to get Softwindows running on would be > either my SGI O2 R12k/270, or a OpenVMS system :^) I've run SoftWindows on a VMS system. After running it a couple of times I removed it and never wanted to run it again. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 30 22:06:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: Looking for SGI Iris 1000 manuals Message-ID: Hi. I need a manual set for the SGI Iris 1000. Anyone got some for sale or trade? Please contact me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 30 22:38:51 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <20040131034725.5B1D37F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Jan 30, 2004 09:47:25 PM Message-ID: <200401310438.i0V4cpcr026352@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Personally the systems I'd like to get Softwindows running on would be > > either my SGI O2 R12k/270, or a OpenVMS system :^) > > I've run SoftWindows on a VMS system. After running it a couple of > times I removed it and never wanted to run it again. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net It's not some much that I want to use it, as I want to run it :^) Besides, I doubt it would run the one app that I would like to run. Namely that Windows App for managing OpenVMS systems (I have to confess to likeing that for managing accounts which probably shows how often I do that). Zane From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jan 30 22:49:12 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Zane, > What isn't working is the following: > Getting a directory of the VMS system from RSTS/E > Copying files between the two systems > Logging in from one system to the other What I did notice is that DEQNA's (and DELQA's) quite often drop packets as soon as traffic gets heavier on the network. I tested this at the raw-iron level (my own bare-metal test code) so that is not an OS- driver issue. Under E11, I did not see this weirdness happen, so it is a real-hardware thing. Test boxes were various BA23's and BA123's with /23, /53, /73 and /83 CPU's. This packet-dropping *may* cause network unreliability with traffic- intensive ops such as copying files.. --f From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jan 30 22:55:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:58 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) References: Message-ID: <004601c3e7b6$6fb0d5b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Mike wrote... > Here's a quick chain test for doing 255 (+-) chains with timing for my > SIMH configuration as described (about 23 sec.) I would hope that real hardware > would out perform it. If not I'll have to think about what could be wrong with > the simulator and come up with another test. Let me know what you get, Jay, next > time you have her up. I should have some time to run the chain test sometime this weekend, doesn't appear to be much planned on the honey-do list. I'll let you know how that test runs. In the future if you want me to run anything to compare against the real hardware, just let me know. I would think an emulator would run circles around the real hardware though, at least hardware of the 2100 vintage. One suggestion. I think you mentioned some sluggishness in the login procedure under SIMH, and you also mentioned the SIMH approach was tieing the two cpus together with sockets. I was using sockets for part of HPEMU, and found them to be dismally slow, at least comparatively for the transfer speeds I needed. I reworked that part with shared memory and the speed problem in that section is now thoroughly gone :) Just a thought anyways. Regards, Jay West From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 31 01:37:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > ONE of today's finds :-) Also got three SUN SparcStations 20s and a > SparcServer 20 with some extra cards in them. Also lots of odds and > ends. Anything droolworthy in the 20s? I'm always interested in SBus stuff, even if only to turn green at cards others have :) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 31 04:03:29 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: new find: Sun Ultra 10" (Jan 30, 18:43) References: <200401310243.i0V2hvwq024404@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <10401311003.ZM26081@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 30, 18:43, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Personally the systems I'd like to get Softwindows running on would be > either my SGI O2 R12k/270, or a OpenVMS system :^) Don't bother. It's like treacle, and it won't run any recent version of Windows. SoftWindows 4.0 is faster than 5.0, but I think it emulates a 486, so it won't run pentium-specific code. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 31 04:16:45 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: new find: Sun Ultra 10" (Jan 30, 20:38) References: <200401310438.i0V4cpcr026352@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <10401311016.ZM26091@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Hi, Zane. On Jan 30, 20:38, Zane H. Healy wrote: > It's not some much that I want to use it, as I want to run it :^) http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Softwindows+HOSTID+group:comp.sys.sgi*&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=r&selm=3E163C48.3A2D291D%40mrnutty.com&rnum=5 SoftWindows 5.00 is on one of the O2 demo CDs. I think 4.00 is on one of the older Irix CD sets. Be warned, it writes things to various .cshrc files, .mime-types, and several other places. Various things will either break, or believe that any file ending in .doc (and others) should be handled by treacle^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSoftWindows and it will take you a while to track them all down. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 31 04:25:29 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <10401311003.ZM26081@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200401310243.i0V2hvwq024404@onyx.spiritone.com> <10401311003.ZM26081@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Jan 31, 2004, at 4:03 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 30, 18:43, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Personally the systems I'd like to get Softwindows running on would > be >> either my SGI O2 R12k/270, or a OpenVMS system :^) > > Don't bother. It's like treacle, and it won't run any recent version > of Windows. SoftWindows 4.0 is faster than 5.0, but I think it > emulates a 486, so it won't run pentium-specific code. I just saw a post on one of the NeXT newsgroups that a guy had NeXTSTEP v3.3 Intel running in Bosch. I'm guessing that Windows would be simpler, since that's likely what most of the Bosch team will be testing with. Doc From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Jan 31 07:50:19 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: References: <200401310243.i0V2hvwq024404@onyx.spiritone.com> <10401311003.ZM26081@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1075557019.4986.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> FWIW, If you want to spend money on the project, and have a Linux box lying around. VMware will remote display via a X connection (or at least it used to - been a while since I did it. Confirm it with the demo.) It gives you some keyboard grab warnings, and won't do full screen, but it did work. (And from what I remember of SW 4 off a SS5, its lots better.) Bewarned, VMWare really likes their products, and charges accordingly. :-( David On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 05:25, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Jan 31, 2004, at 4:03 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > On Jan 30, 18:43, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >> Personally the systems I'd like to get Softwindows running on would > > be > >> either my SGI O2 R12k/270, or a OpenVMS system :^) > > > > Don't bother. It's like treacle, and it won't run any recent version > > of Windows. SoftWindows 4.0 is faster than 5.0, but I think it > > emulates a 486, so it won't run pentium-specific code. > > I just saw a post on one of the NeXT newsgroups that a guy had > NeXTSTEP v3.3 Intel running in Bosch. I'm guessing that Windows would > be simpler, since that's likely what most of the Bosch team will be > testing with. > > > Doc From unruhclan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 29 16:57:33 2004 From: unruhclan at worldnet.att.net (Carey UNRUH) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Plus Development 20 & 40 HardCards Message-ID: <002f01c3e6bb$48c74e80$6400a8c0@widgetbaad900b> I've just acquired some Plus Development hardcards for my 286 powered Tandy 1000 TL/2. I'm looking for the driver loaded in Config.sys called plusdrv.sys needed to run the cards. Does anyone have a copy of plusdrv.sys? Can anyone point me in the correct direction? I've done the google thing and looked on Maxtor's website. (Maxtor acquired Quantum who acquired Plus Development) with no luck. HELP! Thank you, Carey Unruh From cburrou5 at ford.com Thu Jan 29 22:53:39 2004 From: cburrou5 at ford.com (Burroughs, Chris (C.T.)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Qube Box Message-ID: <8AFB80D24000524CB86CE9C5BE84FDDC2BCE21@na1ecm60.dearborn.ford.com> Hello Friend I have one of those old qube boxes. It is complete, but since the Qube system is not available any longer, it does not look. Please let me know if you would be interested in it. I collect goofy things like that. Chris From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Fri Jan 30 00:36:15 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? Message-ID: <200401300636.i0U6aFNR027601@king.cs.drexel.edu> I would like to connect the RGB TTL output of a BBC micro to a VGA monitor, does anybody have any pointers - suggestions? Thanks **vp From asholz at topinform.de Fri Jan 30 02:11:47 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Socal HP1000's, tape drives more In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040128164057.025a92b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040126193114.007a0390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20040128164057.025a92b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <401A11C3.6010301@topinform.com> Mike Ford wrote: > I was at GoldenWest Surplus, 346 American Circle, Corona, CA 92880 > > and they were unloading a stakebed truck load of HP stuff and tape > stuff like a cleaner verifyer and some Bell and Howell thingy with > banks of meters below the drive. I saw at least half a dozen HP1000 > units in racks, and about the same number of 7870 tape drives. One > three rack thingy was a HP measurement system, and another rack was > full of instruments of various kinds. Condition "looked" working or > stored once working. And a couple mini fridge sized disk drives too I > think. > > The deal. > Somebody bought this load at auction, and got Goldenwest to haul it to > Corona where that someone will be pulling what they want in the next > couple days, then the rest belongs to Goldenwest. The owner of > Goldenwest, Mark, wont say diddly about it until it belongs to him, > but it sounds like he is open to offers as soon as the guy says I'm > done take it. Mark is pretty much bottom line oriented, won't talk > about it until the deal is ready, but if you are local and prepared to > make a serious offer a call might not be a bad idea in the next day or > so. Coordination on the list prior to calling might be a good idea, > and with that I am for the most part out of the loop. ;) (909) 340-1501 > > > Why one can find these stuff only in the US? :'( Andreas From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Fri Jan 30 09:43:39 2004 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (hpemu clarification) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why should the real hardware necessarily outperform it? With processors getting faster and faster, I wouldn't be surprised if an emulated hp2000 runs rings around the real h/w. It's too bad the emulator doesn't have the blinky lights and the presence of a real hp2k though. -Bob >Jay asked about benchmarks for SIMH running HP2000 Access, > >Here's a quick chain test for doing 255 (+-) chains with timing for my >SIMH configuration as described (about 23 sec.) I would hope that >real hardware >would out perform it. If not I'll have to think about what could be wrong with >the simulator and come up with another test. Let me know what you >get, Jay, next >time you have her up. > >Thanks again, >Mike. > >list >CHATST > >10 COM A$[255] >20 IF LEN(A$)=255 THEN 70 >30 IF LEN(A$)#0 THEN 50 >40 PRINT TIM(0),TIM(4) >50 A$[LEN(A$)+1]="A" >60 CHAIN X,"chatst" >70 PRINT TIM(0),TIM(4) >80 END >run > >CHATST > > 39 22 > 39 45 > >DONE >cat > NAME LENGTH RECORD NAME LENGTH RECORD NAME LENGTH RECORD >BTEST 1 CATT AL 5 63 CHATST C 1 >DT 1 FPTS9 2 HI 1 >KLFW 1 PR0 AL PR0 64 ROS00 AL 7 63 >SIGNIN 1 SUM 1 WORLD 1 -- bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From alfa2mil2000 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 01:56:27 2004 From: alfa2mil2000 at yahoo.com (tom cruz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Multispin4xc Message-ID: <20040131075627.79637.qmail@web60207.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry... I see your pictures of your Multispin4Xc cdr-c302 and is like one I got, please: how can I use in Win98 or XP systems?, I can´t get the drivers... ...at first thanks for your help and for if you send me those drivers alfa2mil2000 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jan 31 09:22:13 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Qube Box In-Reply-To: <8AFB80D24000524CB86CE9C5BE84FDDC2BCE21@na1ecm60.dearborn.ford.com> References: <8AFB80D24000524CB86CE9C5BE84FDDC2BCE21@na1ecm60.dearborn.ford.com> Message-ID: <401BC825.3060707@atarimuseum.com> I'm interested in getting one. Curt Burroughs, Chris (C.T.) wrote: >Hello Friend >I have one of those old qube boxes. It is complete, but since the Qube system is not available any longer, it does not look. Please let me know if you would be interested in it. I collect goofy things like that. >Chris > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 31 09:44:17 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <1075557019.4986.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <200401310243.i0V2hvwq024404@onyx.spiritone.com> <10401311003.ZM26081@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1075557019.4986.3.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <5422A3BE-5404-11D8-B506-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 31, 2004, at 7:50 AM, David Holland wrote: > FWIW, If you want to spend money on the project, and have a Linux box > lying around. > > VMware will remote display via a X connection (or at least it used to - > been a while since I did it. Confirm it with the demo.) > > It gives you some keyboard grab warnings, and won't do full screen, but > it did work. No full screen, because the X client isn't usually allowed to grab the root window on the local display, and the only keyboard messages you get anymore tell you how to release input. > (And from what I remember of SW 4 off a SS5, its lots better.) True fact. > Bewarned, VMWare really likes their products, and charges accordingly. > :-( Oh, I dunno. The copy of VMware I'm running here only cost about $6500 US, not counting the MS licenses for the emulated Windows boxes. That's not bad, right? :^) Doc From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sat Jan 31 11:09:39 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? In-Reply-To: <200401300636.i0U6aFNR027601@king.cs.drexel.edu> References: <200401300636.i0U6aFNR027601@king.cs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <401BE153.1050308@ntlworld.com> Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: >I would like to connect the RGB TTL output of a BBC micro to >a VGA monitor, does anybody have any pointers - suggestions? > >Thanks > >**vp > > > It's not worth your while trying, it would be cheaper to buy a bbc monitor from ebay. Or a tv-in for your pc and connect it to the bbc's uhf out. Dan From ggs at shiresoft.com Sat Jan 31 11:21:44 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 15:36, Dave Mitton wrote: > I'm looking for someone to help me with a copy of a known good bootable > RX02 RT-11 system diskette, and maybe even some diagnostics. There may be > something wrong with the drives, but given the unreliability of my media, I > cannot tell. I have a complete set of v5.1 (I think) DEC RX02 floppies (ie the distribution diskettes). I haven't tried them out yet to see if they're any good. My plan this weekend is to use my 11/45 running Unix V7 to copy off images. If I don't get any errors, I was going to copy them off to my laptop and then try booting them under an emulator to see if the contents are any good. If they are, I can do either of the following: 1. e-mail you a complete set of RX02 images (free) 2. make a set of RX02 floppies and mail them to you (something for the floppies and shipping). I'll let you know later this weekend if I was successful in making (useful) images. -- TTFN - Guy From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 11:25:07 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Need help with interesting computer card Message-ID: <20040131172507.36626.qmail@web41712.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll... need a little help. I recently took apart a nonfunctioning ControlNet Communications Interface (Allen-Bradley) and I would really love to be able to find Datasheets, manufactures specs, and/or schematics/pinouts (this last is most preferable). Here is a description of the board (I tryed scanning the image but it didn't work... too dark, and I don't have a digital camera): the board has 2 floppy drive type connectors (not Hard disk IDE but the similar, smaller, connector used by the floppy drives) labeled J3 and J4, 2 IC's labeled MCM6502CJ25 and underneath is TQQAA9333 (date code I think), the are 4 LED's, 1 AC14 IC, 1 AC174 IC, 1 74AC32 IC, 2 ACT280 ICs, and many others there is a PAL chip labeled PALCE16V8M-15JC/4, 5 IC'S that I've never seen before... 3 labeled DA05M and 2 labeled HP 2601, and last but not least is 1 parallel port AND next to it is a CAT5 connector (the 8 pin phone connector, or T1). Anyone have any info on these? I would love to be able to use them in a 6502 computer I building but I need the schematics/pinouts for that. Any info would be greatly appreiciated. Thanks. Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 11:25:07 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Need help with interesting computer card Message-ID: <20040131172507.36626.qmail@web41712.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll... need a little help. I recently took apart a nonfunctioning ControlNet Communications Interface (Allen-Bradley) and I would really love to be able to find Datasheets, manufactures specs, and/or schematics/pinouts (this last is most preferable). Here is a description of the board (I tryed scanning the image but it didn't work... too dark, and I don't have a digital camera): the board has 2 floppy drive type connectors (not Hard disk IDE but the similar, smaller, connector used by the floppy drives) labeled J3 and J4, 2 IC's labeled MCM6502CJ25 and underneath is TQQAA9333 (date code I think), the are 4 LED's, 1 AC14 IC, 1 AC174 IC, 1 74AC32 IC, 2 ACT280 ICs, and many others there is a PAL chip labeled PALCE16V8M-15JC/4, 5 IC'S that I've never seen before... 3 labeled DA05M and 2 labeled HP 2601, and last but not least is 1 parallel port AND next to it is a CAT5 connector (the 8 pin phone connector, or T1). Anyone have any info on these? I would love to be able to use them in a 6502 computer I building but I need the schematics/pinouts for that. Any info would be greatly appreiciated. Thanks. Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 31 11:46:40 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <6D2A6014-5415-11D8-B5E9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Saturday, January 31, 2004, at 09:21 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 15:36, Dave Mitton wrote: > >> I'm looking for someone to help me with a copy of a known good >> bootable >> RX02 RT-11 system diskette, and maybe even some diagnostics. There >> may be >> something wrong with the drives, but given the unreliability of my >> media, I >> cannot tell. > > I have a complete set of v5.1 (I think) DEC RX02 floppies (ie the > distribution diskettes). I haven't tried them out yet to see if > they're > any good. > > My plan this weekend is to use my 11/45 running Unix V7 to copy off > images. If I don't get any errors, I was going to copy them off to my > laptop and then try booting them under an emulator to see if the > contents are any good. Which emulator? simh? If you email them to Dave may I have a copy as well? > > If they are, I can do either of the following: > 1. e-mail you a complete set of RX02 images (free) > 2. make a set of RX02 floppies and mail them to you (something for > the floppies and shipping). > > I'll let you know later this weekend if I was successful in making > (useful) images. > -- > > TTFN - Guy > From MTPro at aol.com Sat Jan 31 11:51:28 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Some things for sale - update Message-ID: <12c.3ab88216.2d4d4520@aol.com> Hello, with everyone's patience, I would just like to offer that I now have a list of mags for sell, please e-mail for list. Also, here is more detailed info in order to sell the following: Generic, non-front-panel S-100 system with cool smoked plexiglass cover/case Dual 8" disk drives in chassis ADM5 terminal Please see: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/s100.html Also: Amiga 1000, monitor, external disk drive - complete system IBM Convertible with printer in IBM carrying case, disks, manual, works but screen does not display properly now Osborne 1, slightly newer OCC1 model with blue face front and keyboard top, looks great, excellent display, but can't get it to boot, all "boot errors." Drive needs cleaning, adjustment, replacement? Or are my boot disks just bad? Amstrad PPC640, seems to work, ready to boot, no disk, plus contrast does not work and hinge needs repair on display Most excellent Apple /// complete system with booting Apple Profile hard drive! I am motivated to sell, will definitely sell for less than eBay prices, but I'm not giving things away for next to nothing. Please offer reasonable offers. Thank you, David Greelish From ggs at shiresoft.com Sat Jan 31 12:19:03 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <6D2A6014-5415-11D8-B5E9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <6D2A6014-5415-11D8-B5E9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1075573143.2791.10.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 09:46, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > My plan this weekend is to use my 11/45 running Unix V7 to copy off > > images. If I don't get any errors, I was going to copy them off to my > > laptop and then try booting them under an emulator to see if the > > contents are any good. > > Which emulator? simh? Yep. > > If you email them to Dave may I have a copy as well? > I'll probably put them up on my web site and post a link here. -- TTFN - Guy From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 31 12:19:49 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <10401311016.ZM26091@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200401310438.i0V4cpcr026352@onyx.spiritone.com> <10401311016.ZM26091@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >SoftWindows 5.00 is on one of the O2 demo CDs. I think 4.00 is on one >of the older Irix CD sets. I'll have to take a look at my demo CD's again, I think I was just looking at the Hotmix CD's I have. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 31 12:22:46 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred, >What I did notice is that DEQNA's (and DELQA's) quite often drop packets >as soon as traffic gets heavier on the network. I tested this at the >raw-iron level (my own bare-metal test code) so that is not an OS- >driver issue. Under E11, I did not see this weirdness happen, so it >is a real-hardware thing. Have you ever gotten DECnet/E running on E11? Has anyone? I forget where it dies, but IIRC, it gets as far as the reboot after the install, then it can no longer find the ethernet adapter. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 31 12:28:47 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: >Anything droolworthy in the 20s? I'm always interested in SBus stuff, >even if only to turn green at cards others have :) Oh, would that be stuff like S-Bus expansion boxes, 16-port Serial cards, or quad 100Mbit Ethernet? Those are some of the coolest S-Bus widgets I've got. I'm also somewhat fond of the combo 10Mbit Ethernet/Narrow SCSI cards. Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that will let you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I would have any use at all for a system with them in it. BTW, anyone ever try the S-Bus expansion boxes, or 16-port serial cards in an Ultra 2? I'm wondering if such things will work in a U2. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 31 13:32:47 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <1075573143.2791.10.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <3FFE9791-5424-11D8-B5E9-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Saturday, January 31, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > >> >> If you email them to Dave may I have a copy as well? >> > > I'll probably put them up on my web site and post a link here. Thank you. I don't know much about RT-11, I have been using simh with RSTS-E. Is it easy to setup? > -- > > TTFN - Guy > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 31 14:13:15 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Jan 31, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that will > let you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I would > have any use at all for a system with them in it. Got them - SM52 modules - and they're a recipe for disaster in an SS20. Way too hot, way too close together, and not nearly enough aorflow. Want a SPARCServer1000? With a fully-populated SSA 100 and the aforementioned SM52s? Boots, runs, has CD-ROM and original drives, 2 system boards and I think 512MB RAM. Keyswitch is gutted and ugly, but functional. The SSA comes with the SBUS interface and a full load of 2GB drives. No fiber cable, though. > BTW, anyone ever try the S-Bus expansion boxes, or 16-port serial > cards in an Ultra 2? I'm wondering if such things will work in a U2. Doc From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Jan 31 12:43:14 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:22:46 PST." Message-ID: <200401311843.SAA03281@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Zane H. Healy" said: > Fred, > >What I did notice is that DEQNA's (and DELQA's) quite often drop packets > >as soon as traffic gets heavier on the network. I tested this at the > >raw-iron level (my own bare-metal test code) so that is not an OS- > >driver issue. Under E11, I did not see this weirdness happen, so it > >is a real-hardware thing. > > Have you ever gotten DECnet/E running on E11? Has anyone? I forget where it dies, but IIRC, it gets as far as the reboot after the install, then it can no longer find the ethernet adapter. I'd love to know too. I just found a NE2000 card which I stuck in my E11 machine and was about to look at DECnet (about which I know *nothing*). -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 31 14:16:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: References: <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040131151603.0082be50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't know what the cards in the Sun Sparks are. I haven't ahd time to get them out and figure out what they are. But I do have a pair of ROSS CPU cards out of another SUN. (SparcStation 20 IIRC). Joe At 10:28 AM 1/31/04 -0800, you wrote: >>Anything droolworthy in the 20s? I'm always interested in SBus stuff, >>even if only to turn green at cards others have :) > >Oh, would that be stuff like S-Bus expansion boxes, 16-port Serial cards, or quad 100Mbit Ethernet? Those are some of the coolest S-Bus widgets I've got. I'm also somewhat fond of the combo 10Mbit Ethernet/Narrow SCSI cards. > >Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that will let you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I would have any use at all for a system with them in it. > >BTW, anyone ever try the S-Bus expansion boxes, or 16-port serial cards in an Ultra 2? I'm wondering if such things will work in a U2. > > Zane > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 31 14:31:55 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jan 31, 2004 10:28:47 AM Message-ID: <20040131203155.5BC12801C@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that will let > you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I would have any > use at all for a system with them in it. I have a SS20 stashed away with two SM81 CPUs. That gets hot enough that I don't think I'd want to try two SM52 CPUs. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 31 14:34:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040131153401.00844960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What the heck is a 75MHz SM71 SuperSPARC II Module? PN 501-2925. I couldn't find anything about it on the SunSolve site. Joe At 02:13 PM 1/31/04 -0600, you wrote: >On Jan 31, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> >> Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that will >> let you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I would >> have any use at all for a system with them in it. > > Got them - SM52 modules - and they're a recipe for disaster in an >SS20. Way too hot, way too close together, and not nearly enough >aorflow. > > Want a SPARCServer1000? With a fully-populated SSA 100 and the >aforementioned SM52s? Boots, runs, has CD-ROM and original drives, 2 >system boards and I think 512MB RAM. Keyswitch is gutted and ugly, but >functional. The SSA comes with the SBUS interface and a full load of >2GB drives. No fiber cable, though. > >> BTW, anyone ever try the S-Bus expansion boxes, or 16-port serial >> cards in an Ultra 2? I'm wondering if such things will work in a U2. > > > Doc > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 31 14:47:08 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040131153401.00844960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3.0.6.32.20040131153401.00844960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Jan 31, 2004, at 2:34 PM, Joe R. wrote: > What the heck is a 75MHz SM71 SuperSPARC II Module? PN 501-2925. I > couldn't find anything about it on the SunSolve site. Try here: http://mbus.sunhelp.org/ Doc From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat Jan 31 14:07:56 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: OT: Cisco IOS 11.2 Software Kits w/Serial Numbers Available (2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040131150705.02458b28@mail.n.ml.org> Too bad I'm unemployed and don't have the 2500 to go with it. Would have been nice for an Ethernet/Token Ring router/bridge. Ah, such is life. -John At 02:11 PM 1/30/2004, you wrote: >I have two Cisco IOS 11.2 Software Feature Packs (IP) available. Both kits >have original serial numbers in the box. I don't have the routers any more >(2500 series). Up for grabs to first responder(s) (private reply please) >for cost of shipping. They're outta here, or they're in Monday's trash. >:-) --Patrick ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Sat Jan 31 14:54:45 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: from Doc Shipley at Jan "31, " 2004 "02:13:15" pm Message-ID: <200401312054.NAA10126@atlantis.clogic-int.com> > On Jan 31, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that will > > let you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I would > > have any use at all for a system with them in it. > > Got them - SM52 modules - and they're a recipe for disaster in an > SS20. Way too hot, way too close together, and not nearly enough > aorflow. > > Want a SPARCServer1000? With a fully-populated SSA 100 and the > aforementioned SM52s? Boots, runs, has CD-ROM and original drives, 2 > system boards and I think 512MB RAM. Keyswitch is gutted and ugly, but > functional. The SSA comes with the SBUS interface and a full load of > 2GB drives. No fiber cable, though. That sounds like a very very nice system. How big is it? I run a SPARCstation 20 and a SPARCserver 20 MP. > > > BTW, anyone ever try the S-Bus expansion boxes, or 16-port serial > > cards in an Ultra 2? I'm wondering if such things will work in a U2. > > > Doc > > -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Jan 31 15:33:29 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:41:08 CST." Message-ID: <200401312133.i0VLXT224153@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Christopher Cureau" wrote: >Has anyone gotten the cross compiler successfully built? I keep trying, >and keep failing... 8-) If anyone (else) is intertested in this, here's what I've learned: concerning gcc/binuils & pdp-11 - gcc's (3.3.2) backend generates "unix" style asm - gas wants "gas" style asm and doesn't like the "unix" style asm - the pdp-11 gcc maintainer knows this and has some fixes which he's going to release soon in the mean time, You can't simply cross compile the "as" from 2.11BSD because it's written in assembler. (but it sure looks like it was C at point) The xinu "as11" assembler accepts "unix style" asm and outputs a.out, but the format is not quite right (the symbols are wrong with no string table). Not letting that stop me I hacked "as11" such that binutils-2.14 is happy with the a.out it produces. I'm going to try and use this to cross compile a few things. We'll see how it goes. I could sure use a complete pdp-11 assembler reference (with floating point) if anyone has one or knows where one is on-line. -brad From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 31 15:36:10 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401312054.NAA10126@atlantis.clogic-int.com> References: <200401312054.NAA10126@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: <7C85E9AC-5435-11D8-962E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Jan 31, 2004, at 2:54 PM, John Willis wrote: >> On Jan 31, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Want a SPARCServer1000? With a fully-populated SSA 100 and the >> aforementioned SM52s? Boots, runs, has CD-ROM and original drives, 2 >> system boards and I think 512MB RAM. Keyswitch is gutted and ugly, >> but >> functional. The SSA comes with the SBUS interface and a full load of >> 2GB drives. No fiber cable, though. > That sounds like a very very nice system. How big is it? I > run a SPARCstation 20 and a SPARCserver 20 MP. They're each - SS1000 and SSA - about a 4U-5U RM drawer. The SSA isn't tested, but was a working pull. I actually have 2 SSA's, but only one Sbus interface. It's a dedicated interface, too, not standard FC. Total weight would be very near 350lb, maybe more. That SSA is *heavy*. Doc From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Jan 31 15:36:41 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040131153401.00844960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3.0.6.32.20040131153401.00844960@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20915.62.177.191.201.1075585001.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> > What the heck is a 75MHz SM71 SuperSPARC II Module? PN 501-2925. I > couldn't find anything about it on the SunSolve site. > > Joe > > That's a processor module for a sparcstation 10 or sparcstation 20 Minumum OS level is 2.3, openboot prom v2.22 Not tested for an SS1000 Ed From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 31 15:52:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040131165228.00852890@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:37 AM 1/31/04 -0500, der Mouse wrote: >> ONE of today's finds :-) Also got three SUN SparcStations 20s and a >> SparcServer 20 with some extra cards in them. Also lots of odds and >> ends. > >Anything droolworthy in the 20s? I'm always interested in SBus stuff, >even if only to turn green at cards others have :) Nope, I'm afraid not. I opened them up today and found one SM71, one SM50, one SM 40 and one SM 30 CPUs. One had a Turbo GX framebuffer and the others GX framebuffers. All had 16 and 32 Mb DIMMs. There's a fair amount of memory in total but I doubt anybody wants 16 or 32Mb sticks. All the hard drives were pulled. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 31 16:13:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: More DEC VT520 terminals available Message-ID: I've listed more DEC VT520 terminals for sale ($25 each) on the Vintage Computer Marketplace: http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=391 http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=394 http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=395 These are excellent terminals that emulate a bunch of other terminals plus allow multiple physical and virtual connections to different hosts. Setup is through on-screen windows. This is quite a deal...I've seen refurbished units selling for around $250. Go get 'em! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 16:29:53 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:42:59 2005 Subject: How much does a Zenith Z120 worth Message-ID: <20040131222953.40673.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> I got a Zenith Data System Z120 (model EIA-416). It has 5 S-100 slots with two boards installed. One is a disk controller board. It has a green build in CGA-like monitor and two 5.25'' floppy drives. The case is good. It boots into MS-DOS. I googled and found it had both 8085 and 8086 or 88. Since I am a VAX guy I am willing to convert this beast (maybe 50LB or more) into some resource (another word for money) that I can use to buy VAX stuff. How much do you guys think it worthes? If too little I will not place it onto epay. Thank you. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From donm at cts.com Sat Jan 31 16:28:15 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Plus Development 20 & 40 HardCards In-Reply-To: <002f01c3e6bb$48c74e80$6400a8c0@widgetbaad900b> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Carey UNRUH wrote: > I've just acquired some Plus Development hardcards for my 286 powered Tandy 1000 TL/2. I'm looking for the driver loaded in Config.sys called plusdrv.sys needed to run the cards. > > Does anyone have a copy of plusdrv.sys? Can anyone point me in the correct direction? > > I've done the google thing and looked on Maxtor's website. (Maxtor acquired Quantum who acquired Plus Development) with no luck. Did you check the files at "ftpdownload.maxtor.com/pub/QuantumProducts/Hardcard/" - don > HELP! > > Thank you, Carey Unruh > From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 31 16:35:35 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (cb@mythtech.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg Message-ID: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment. From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sat Jan 31 16:38:43 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Plus Development 20 & 40 HardCards In-Reply-To: <002f01c3e6bb$48c74e80$6400a8c0@widgetbaad900b> References: <002f01c3e6bb$48c74e80$6400a8c0@widgetbaad900b> Message-ID: <401C2E73.80308@ntlworld.com> Carey UNRUH wrote: >I've just acquired some Plus Development hardcards for my 286 powered Tandy 1000 TL/2. I'm looking for the driver loaded in Config.sys called plusdrv.sys needed to run the cards. > >Does anyone have a copy of plusdrv.sys? Can anyone point me in the correct direction? > >I've done the google thing and looked on Maxtor's website. (Maxtor acquired Quantum who acquired Plus Development) with no luck. > >HELP! > >Thank you, Carey Unruh > > > This might not be the case for the tandy, but I had one on an amstrad but you only needed to load the driver if you had two in, as far as I remember if it booted from the drive you didn't need it. Dan From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sat Jan 31 16:40:37 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> cb@mythtech.net wrote: >The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment. > > > That's a new one on me. Dan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 31 16:45:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Plus Development 20 & 40 HardCards Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040131174504.00845100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:28 PM 1/31/04 -0800, Don wrote: > > >On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Carey UNRUH wrote: > >> I've just acquired some Plus Development hardcards for my 286 powered Tandy 1000 TL/2. I'm looking for the driver loaded in Config.sys called plusdrv.sys needed to run the cards. >> >> Does anyone have a copy of plusdrv.sys? Can anyone point me in the correct direction? >> >> I've done the google thing and looked on Maxtor's website. (Maxtor acquired Quantum who acquired Plus Development) with no luck. > >Did you check the files at >"ftpdownload.maxtor.com/pub/QuantumProducts/Hardcard/" > Try Thanks Don. Joe From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Sat Jan 31 16:26:48 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: HP1650B Logic Analyzer, diskette format? Message-ID: <200401312226.i0VMQmrc010007@king.cs.drexel.edu> Tom Jennings wrote: > Does anyone have any idea what the diskette format is? It's not DSDD 512 > byte sectors, eg. dd won't read it on a linux box. If its like the 1630 then the diskettes are LIF format either single sided or double sided. Have a go at reading the disks on an MSDOS or Windows PC using the LIFUTIL program. LIFUTIL was released by HP to allow the transfer of data from HP LIF floppies to MSDOS systems. Initially they sold it, but now its free. ftp://ftp.math.jyu.fi/pub/hpil/lifutil **vp From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 31 17:20:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 22:40, Dan Williams wrote: > cb@mythtech.net wrote: > > >The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment. > > > > > > > That's a new one on me. > > Dan I think that's how the MyDoom virus normally turns up, although the copies I've received normally have a more meaningful subject and text to trick idiots into launching the attached executable "text file". First time I've seen an attempted virus post to the list if that's what it was though... I didn't think the list would let anything through with an attachment though. I guess the message headers are a little screwy though; Evolution's inbox pane thinks there's an attachment, but the message view pane doesn't... cheers Jules From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 31 17:36:12 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg Message-ID: >The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary >attachment. Despite allegedly coming from me, I was not the sender of the above email. I assure you none of my Macs are infected with this Windows worm. :-) Someone else with my addy on their machine has been infected. IP in the header traces back to RIPE Networks in Amsterdam. Fortunately, it appears the list strips attachments, so the email is nothing more harmful then a minor annoyance to the list. -chris From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 31 17:48:43 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401312359.SAA12832@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Anything droolworthy in the 20s? I'm always interested in SBus >> stuff, even if only to turn green at cards others have :) > Oh, would that be stuff like S-Bus expansion boxes, 16-port Serial > cards, or quad 100Mbit Ethernet? Those are some of the coolest S-Bus > widgets I've got. I'm also somewhat fond of the combo 10Mbit > Ethernet/Narrow SCSI cards. I'd love an xbox. (Or do you mean something else? Is there any other SBus expansion box?) 16-port serial? Well, it _would_ be nice to be able to dedicate a port to each serial console I have. qfe, well, I have (almost?) nothing that speaks 100Mb to connect it to, so that would be of little use to me. (I recently went poking, looking for something that spoke 100Mb to test an hme card; I never did find anything. The hme appears to be broken anyway, though, so it doesn't much matter.) > Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that > will let you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I > would have any use at all for a system with them in it. Well, I've got two CPU modules sitting idle. I'd cheerfully swap either of them an xbox[%]; provided either NetBSD supports it or there's enough doc for me to make NetBSD support it (and provided it does reasonably full-featured serial lines), the same goes for a 16-port serial card. If you're interested, drop me a line and I'll dig them out and send you the numbers and descs, and, if you're still interested, test them.) I've also got some le/esp combo cards, such as you expressed interest in.... [%] Note I'm talking about the sbus-to-sbus bridge, not the Microsoft game console! :-) > BTW, anyone ever try the S-Bus expansion boxes, or 16-port serial > cards in an Ultra 2? I'm wondering if such things will work in a U2. Well, if you take me up on my offer, I could try them; I have a U2. (Currently sitting idle, waiting for me to collect round tuits to do something with it, but I could do _some_ testing at least.) Hm, I wonder if the U2's onboard ethernet is an hme. Maybe I do have a 100Mb-capable machine.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 31 18:13:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 31 Jan 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 22:40, Dan Williams wrote: > > cb@mythtech.net wrote: > > > > >The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment. > > > > > > > > > > > That's a new one on me. > > > > Dan > > I think that's how the MyDoom virus normally turns up, although the > copies I've received normally have a more meaningful subject and text to > trick idiots into launching the attached executable "text file". > > First time I've seen an attempted virus post to the list if that's what > it was though... > > I didn't think the list would let anything through with an attachment > though. I guess the message headers are a little screwy though; > Evolution's inbox pane thinks there's an attachment, but the message > view pane doesn't... "Microsoft will provide the monetary rewards for information resulting in the arrest and conviction of those responsible for launching malicious viruses and worms on the Internet." I'm turning in Bill Gates and collecting the reward. P.S. One more reason to NOT USE OUTLOOK EXPRESS!!! There are very nice free or cheap alternative mail clients out there peoople! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Jan 31 18:20:20 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401312359.SAA12832@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200401312359.SAA12832@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1075594820.4983.8.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 18:48, der Mouse wrote: > > Hm, I wonder if the U2's onboard ethernet is an hme. Maybe I do have a > 100Mb-capable machine... If I recall correctly, yes it is.. (If I don't, I'm sure someone here will tell me. :-) ) David > . > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jan 31 18:35:50 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <1075594820.4983.8.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200401312359.SAA12832@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <1075594820.4983.8.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040131163532.04769ec0@mail.zipcon.net> my U1 is 10/100.. so the U2 should be also... At 04:20 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote: >On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 18:48, der Mouse wrote: > > > > Hm, I wonder if the U2's onboard ethernet is an hme. Maybe I do have a > > 100Mb-capable machine... > >If I recall correctly, yes it is.. (If I don't, I'm sure someone here >will tell me. :-) ) > >David > > > . > > > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > > \ / Ribbon Campaign > > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jan 31 18:20:22 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040131165228.00852890@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040131165228.00852890@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200402010024.TAA12934@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...20s...] > There's a fair amount of memory in total but I doubt anybody wants 16 > or 32Mb sticks. I'd cheerfully take them off your hands; I've got a number of slots right now that are either empty or loaded with 4 or 8 meg sticks. > All the hard drives were pulled. I'm not short of disk at the moment, so unless they're exceptional somehow, disk doesn't count for me; I've got some 20 drives sitting idle right now. (Most of them are fairly small - ?G, 1G - and some of them are those noisy 2G Seagate Barracudas, but still.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 31 18:33:55 2004 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (ronbain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: How to unsubscribe?? In-Reply-To: <1075416448.2207.80.camel@dhcp-248044> Message-ID: <00c901c3e85b$135436e0$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Anybody know how to unsubscribe from this list? Ron -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jennings Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 2:47 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: New (sic) 8" floppy media? So, what's the story with current-use 8" flop media? My brother Gregg got my old CP/M system running, novelty is wearing off and is willing to part with it now :-) It's a homemade box, I forget what's in it, though I do remember it's got a Cromemco 4FDC with a data separator piggyback board from a Trash 1 living under the WD17xx chip (the Pertecs the 4FDC was meant for had data sep on-board). Two Shugart drives with solidstte relays to shut 'em off after inactivity, which is just as well, as the bearings now howl like crazed tiny animals. I have one sealed box of Dysans (list price: $65. My price: $2 from a stationary store in Tucson AZ closing in 1998. Wish I had bought 'em all.). How does this stuff hold up? I assume no one actually makes them anymore! From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 31 18:35:09 2004 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (ronbain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: How to Unsubscribe?? In-Reply-To: <200401290307.WAA18202913@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <00ca01c3e85b$3fa43560$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Anybody know how to unsubscribe from this list?? ronbain@ix.netcom.com -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Megan Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 7:07 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: looking for a few items. > The field guide lists the M7676 as if it was a single board > T11, perhaps like Megan's "PDP laptop" from the VCFe. > Anybody ever seen a M7676 / KXT11 ? I haven't tried opening up the 'laptop' for some time... the last time I did, I was unable to get it entirely open -- there is some hidden screw somewhere I was unable to find. I'll try again when I have a life again (after I get a house)... As for the KXT11-A, I have a couple of them, both the -AA and the -AB variants. In fact, the -AA is the one I used to do the work on the DU driver to get RT to boot, since it needs an alternate address (176150, if I remember correctly) The KXT11-AB is a proto -- it doesn't have the purple card handles. So, they do exist and have been seen... :-) Megan From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat Jan 31 17:38:45 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040131183805.0241cda8@mail.n.ml.org> It is because he has been infected with the newest round of viruses on a Windows machine. -John At 05:40 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote: >cb@mythtech.net wrote: > >>The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary >>attachment. >> >> >That's a new one on me. > >Dan ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From martinm at allwest.net Sat Jan 31 18:40:25 2004 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: How to unsubscribe?? References: <00c901c3e85b$135436e0$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: <401C4AF9.3030305@allwest.net> ronbain wrote: > Anybody know how to unsubscribe from this list? > > Ron > From the header in _all_ mail from classiccmp: part of header snipped Precedence: list Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org Errors-To: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org Martin From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Jan 31 18:45:23 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200401311945.23270.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 31 January 2004 13:28, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Anything droolworthy in the 20s? I'm always interested in SBus > > stuff, even if only to turn green at cards others have :) > > Oh, would that be stuff like S-Bus expansion boxes, 16-port Serial > cards, or quad 100Mbit Ethernet? Those are some of the coolest S-Bus > widgets I've got. I'm also somewhat fond of the combo 10Mbit > Ethernet/Narrow SCSI cards. > > Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules that > will let you turn a Sparc 20 into a Quad-processor box. Not that I > would have any use at all for a system with them in it. Then you'd love the dual-90MHz ROSS module I've got (along with a single-90 module in an SS20 to create a 3 processor "frankenstein"), or the pair of Dual-100MHz ROSS modules I've got in another machine. The 90s are nicer that the 100s though in my opinion, since they don't take up any s-bus slots like the 100MHz ones do. (the heatsink on the 100s is two slots wide because those things run HOT! The 90s aren't anywhere near as bad.) The one thing I like about it is that even though it won't take as much memory, and doesn't have as many SBUS slots (or drive bays), the SS20 with a pair of 100MHz procs is probably just as fast as an 8-way 50MHz SS1000, and a small fraction of the weight. Of course, you're limited to IIRC 512MB of ram in the machine... Adding on the expansion box might be interesting though. I saw one of those a few months ago, but didn't bother with it because it didn't have a cable to connect it to a machine with (or the card for the machine's SBUS slot). I managed to pick up the 90's pretty cheaply on eBay about a year ago; the 100s were "retired" from a university machine about 3 years ago - an SS20 that served around 1000 EE/CompE students for things like Matlab, pSpice, gcc, and g++. Can you say underpowered? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 31 18:43:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: How to unsubscribe?? In-Reply-To: <00c901c3e85b$135436e0$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, ronbain wrote: > Anybody know how to unsubscribe from this list? I couldn't stand this any longer so I gently berated Ron in private and sent him links to the relevant instructions. If he asks this again then I swear I will mailbomb him mercilessly. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Jan 31 19:15:08 2004 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Sun MBus & SBus stuff (was Re: new find: Sun Ultra 10) Message-ID: <200402010115.i111F8KI096970@io.crash.com> > Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules I've got an SS10 running an SM52 (501-2780 IIRC) that's been doing yeoman service for the past eight years at least, 24x7 by 365. (It lost *both* disks just two months ago, so I feel relatively safe tepting fate like this ;^) I've got another SM52, but this 501-2444 doesn't play nice with the other SM52 and may in fact not work properly at all. Never got back to checking it out... I'm still tickled at having a pair of SM91's - I'd never seen any 'til these showed up on eBay. Got a late PROM for my SS20 and brought 'em up, but it kept crashing when I wasn't paying attention, so they're waiting for more round tuit's to accumulate. > I'm always interested in SBus stuff, even if only to > turn green at cards others have :) Don't know if turning funny colors is called for, but my favorites are the SWIFT combo cards - hme 100baseT and a "fast" wide SCSI interface. Oddest one I've got is a Parsytec BBK-S4 Adapter - lets an SBus system talk to Transputers. Of which I have none, but I guess it's good to Be Prepared... Has a T222 'puter on it, but there's no software in sight. I suddenly doubled the number of SBus cards I own when I was picking up SS1000 system boards. I've got hold of 8 SM81's to load up an SS1000, and three of the later "E" system boards, and am hoping that it'll all work with a non-"E" enclosure/backplane. That thing's heavy, I don't relish having to swap it to make that happen... If anyone's sitting on a CompuPro NS16032 board & docs and wants a bunch of SBus or Qbus stuff, let me know. --Steve. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 31 19:56:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? In-Reply-To: <200401300636.i0U6aFNR027601@king.cs.drexel.edu> from "Vassilis Prevelakis" at Jan 30, 4 01:36:15 am Message-ID: > > I would like to connect the RGB TTL output of a BBC micro to > a VGA monitor, does anybody have any pointers - suggestions? It's very difficult... The trivial problem is that he RGB socket on a Beeb is TTL level digital, the VGA input is analogue. Trivial, because there's only 1 bit per colour on the Beeb anyway, so a resistor network will convert the voltage levels. The difficult problem is that the scan rates are totally different (VGA is 31kHz horizontal, the Beeb is 15.625kHz). If you have a multisync monitor that will go down to 15kHz (some of the old ones will), then there's no problem, otherwise you've got a lot of work either modifying the monitor or making a standards converter. Probably the easiest solution if you're not a video expert is to use a PC with a TV input card. You could at least feed the Beeb's composite output into such a card (do any such cards exist with RGB inputs?) -tony From rmeenaks at olf.com Sat Jan 31 20:05:09 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Sun MBus & SBus stuff (was Re: new find: Sun Ultra 10) In-Reply-To: <200402010115.i111F8KI096970@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <0HSD00GQPV44S4@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I have the software for the BBK-S4 plus the manual. Its on my website at http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer under specifications. I also have one, but I am looking for the cables. I have the 8-pin cables, but no 6-pin which connects to the card. Its currently connected to my Ultra-2 along with a PCMCIA Sbus card which houses a SMT104 PCMCIA transputer card, Svideo card, and the Creator 3D Series 3 UPA card... Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:15 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Sun MBus & SBus stuff (was Re: new find: Sun Ultra 10) > Of course what I drool over are the dual 50Mhz M-Bus modules I've got an SS10 running an SM52 (501-2780 IIRC) that's been doing yeoman service for the past eight years at least, 24x7 by 365. (It lost *both* disks just two months ago, so I feel relatively safe tepting fate like this ;^) I've got another SM52, but this 501-2444 doesn't play nice with the other SM52 and may in fact not work properly at all. Never got back to checking it out... I'm still tickled at having a pair of SM91's - I'd never seen any 'til these showed up on eBay. Got a late PROM for my SS20 and brought 'em up, but it kept crashing when I wasn't paying attention, so they're waiting for more round tuit's to accumulate. > I'm always interested in SBus stuff, even if only to > turn green at cards others have :) Don't know if turning funny colors is called for, but my favorites are the SWIFT combo cards - hme 100baseT and a "fast" wide SCSI interface. Oddest one I've got is a Parsytec BBK-S4 Adapter - lets an SBus system talk to Transputers. Of which I have none, but I guess it's good to Be Prepared... Has a T222 'puter on it, but there's no software in sight. I suddenly doubled the number of SBus cards I own when I was picking up SS1000 system boards. I've got hold of 8 SM81's to load up an SS1000, and three of the later "E" system boards, and am hoping that it'll all work with a non-"E" enclosure/backplane. That thing's heavy, I don't relish having to swap it to make that happen... If anyone's sitting on a CompuPro NS16032 board & docs and wants a bunch of SBus or Qbus stuff, let me know. --Steve. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 21:00:41 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: FA: Zenith Z-120 posted in marketplace.vintage.org Message-ID: <20040201030041.73876.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> for S49.99 or trade for a SUN 386i. Thank you. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 31 22:11:46 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Sun MBus & SBus stuff (was Re: new find: Sun Ultra 10) In-Reply-To: <200402010115.i111F8KI096970@io.crash.com> References: <200402010115.i111F8KI096970@io.crash.com> Message-ID: >I'm still tickled at having a pair of SM91's - I'd never >seen any 'til these showed up on eBay. Got a late PROM for >my SS20 and brought 'em up, but it kept crashing when I >wasn't paying attention, so they're waiting for more round >tuit's to accumulate. What is an SM91? I've not heard of that one! Based on the info I just pulled up, and the SM71's and SM81's, I'm assuming that it's a 95Mhz SuperSparc II CPU. Now there is a card to make me jealous! Though I don't think I'd want to try and keep a dual SS20 with those in it! >Don't know if turning funny colors is called for, but my >favorites are the SWIFT combo cards - hme 100baseT and a >"fast" wide SCSI interface. That one just makes me slightly green. I find a 4-Port Quad more useful, and am actually using one of the Combo cards simply as a Narrow SCSI interface. >I suddenly doubled the number of SBus cards I own when I >was picking up SS1000 system boards. I've got hold of 8 >SM81's to load up an SS1000, and three of the later "E" >system boards, and am hoping that it'll all work with a >non-"E" enclosure/backplane. That thing's heavy, I don't >relish having to swap it to make that happen... Putting together a SS1000 with 8 SM81's would make an interesting desktop to play with, unfortunately I don't really have room for one (and yes, I do know they really aren't that big, I'm that short on space). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 31 22:33:22 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 In-Reply-To: <200401311945.23270.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040130215655.007f1da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200401310739.CAA08896@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200401311945.23270.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: >Then you'd love the dual-90MHz ROSS module I've got (along with a >single-90 module in an SS20 to create a 3 processor "frankenstein"), or >the pair of Dual-100MHz ROSS modules I've got in another machine. The >90s are nicer that the 100s though in my opinion, since they don't take >up any s-bus slots like the 100MHz ones do. (the heatsink on the 100s >is two slots wide because those things run HOT! The 90s aren't >anywhere near as bad.) Actually the only reason I'd like the dual ROSS HyperSparc modules is to get a Quad system up and running. I don't like HyperSparc CPU's, a 125Mhz, is about the same speed as a 75Mhz SuperSparc II. >The one thing I like about it is that even though it won't take as much >memory, and doesn't have as many SBUS slots (or drive bays), the SS20 >with a pair of 100MHz procs is probably just as fast as an 8-way 50MHz >SS1000, and a small fraction of the weight. Of course, you're limited >to IIRC 512MB of ram in the machine... I don't think so, here are the SpecInt/FP 92 numbers for a SS20. Sun SS20/50 SuprSP 50 20/16 76.9 80.1 Sun SS20/HS11 HyperSP 50/100 256+8/0 104.5 127.6 While the raw power for a single process might be faster on the 100Mhz HyperSparc, overall that 8-way 50Mhz will blow it away. Besides if I was putting an 8-way SS1000 together, I'd be wanting to run it with SM81-2's. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Jan 31 22:44:38 2004 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Sun MBus & SBus stuff Message-ID: <200402010444.i114icKI097653@io.crash.com> > What is an SM91? I've not heard of that one! According to the Rough Guide to MBus Modules it's only a 90MHz SuperSparc II. I haven't played with 'em in so long I don't recall if they're really 95MHz or not. Re: heat and the SS20 -- yeah, I started pulling DIMMs out of it on a hunch. ;^) Still wedged, and I wandered off to some other project. > Putting together a SS1000 ... aren't that big Oh yes they are. I mean not compared to a 19" rack, but this thing is huge for a non-rolling box and has to be over 80 pounds. I didn't realize what a pain it was going to be, and am wondering where to put it... The middle of the living room really isn't the best spot. I'm also looking forward to this huge machine running off of a tiny little lunch box (Sun 411) for storage... --Steve. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jan 31 22:54:10 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: Big eBay bux for Comdyna hybrid Message-ID: $1,400 bux, to be exact - which was the 'Buy-It-Now' price, that option was exercised. Ahem. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2782674461&category=4193&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 Cheers John From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Jan 31 23:37:35 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: DEC's Organic Illumination Systems research Message-ID: <20040201053058.GE6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> For info. about some of DEC's more unusual research: After accidentally happening upon an interesting humorous web site, http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/archive/, I discovered the following written by Mike Olson , back around 1989. Interestingly, the following URL is still reachable (it does get redirected, however). You will recall the DEC WRL technical memo of several months ago called "Characterization of Organic Illumination Systems." That work is described at: http://www.research.digital.com/wrl/techreports/html/TN-13/ due to budgetary constraints, the DEC WRL research team was constrained to running just a few experiments on just a few foods. Fortunately, DEC's semiconductor engineering group has carried out further experiments, and has discovered that at 140V RMS, kim-chi acts as a rectifier. [...] Sorry about posting this two months early. ;-) RDD -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.