From dan at ekoan.com Sat Mar 1 00:01:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:33 2005 Subject: Neon logic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19C3043E-4BAB-11D7-88EF-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> On Friday, February 28, 2003, at 06:33 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > There's a reasonable book on this subject called 'Cold Cathode Tube > Circuit Design'. It covers things like gas-filled voltage stabilisers, > trigger tubes (the cold cathode thyratrons you mention), dekatrons, > etc. I have two other books at hand that cover these topics. "Cold Cathode Discharge Tubes" (J.R. Acton and J.D. Swift, 1963) is a more analytical and mathematical approach (with chapters like "Mobility and Diffusion of Positive Ions in Gases" and "Electron-Ion Recombination and Afterglow Studies") to the design of tube circuits. There are separate chapters for trigger circuits, dekatrons, and even particle counters. "Digital Counters and Computers" (Ed Bukstein, 1960) is a more practical book, with a large number of circuits for different types of counters. There are schematics for most of the tube-based counting and arithmetic circuits you could think of (at least for 1960). There's even a nice chapter on storage, including a description of core memory and a tube-based read and write circuit. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 1 00:06:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: A&J Stringy Floppy In-Reply-To: <20030227223656.25205.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a Stringy Floppy in the back of an ancient bipolar PAL blaster. > We never used it. We always used the serial port. I have a strange 6502 computer that has a stringy floppy drive built in to the back side of it. I believe it's also an Exatron. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 1 00:11:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Fortran In-Reply-To: <4678.4.20.168.191.1046393600.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Python is sort of column sensitive. Nothing has to be in a specific > column, but the nesting is controlled by matching indentation, rather > than having begin/end tokens. Crazy! I know nothing of Python but that just sounds intriguing. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 1 00:14:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > >Is Weird Stuff Warehouse still out in San Jose? I always loved that > > >place when I went out to San Jose(not far from the Bay Area). > > > > They moved over to Caribbean Drive > Yeah, but last time I was there (my office is off of Elko Dr, which > is off Lawrence Expwy, the "other side" of Caribbean) they were very > much closed. WeirdStuff is most assuredly still in business. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Mar 1 01:42:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228183810.63162.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c2dfc5$6f70a5c0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> My RRD43 reads CDR's fine. BTW, I know it was asked, but not sure if it was answered. I have read VMS install CD's into PC ISO files using Nero, then used them with SIMH to create a VMS system from scratch. I've also read the same discs with Easy CD Creator (don't remember which version) and although the files were slightly different sizes, they still worked fine. I know I gave someone on this forum (was it you, Ethan?) some ISO's... They were made with Easy CD Creator. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > I've not actually attempted to use the results with SIMH, so all I'm > reporting is that CDRWin is reading *something* from the CD! I'd burn > the result to a CDRW if I thought any of my RRD4x devices could cope. I already have verified that my RRD42 does _not_ like CD-R media. :-( -ethan From mranalog at attbi.com Sat Mar 1 01:45:01 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Neon logic Message-ID: <3E605CFD.A1E7292F@attbi.com> Robert Nansel wrote: > I came across reference to a file, LAMP.ZIP, you posted briefly for the > Classic Computer list back in '99. Would it be possible for me to get this > file? I'm fascinated by the idea of making counters, logic gates, and > memory elements using neon lamps, but repeated google searches reveal very, > very little hard information (other than there were such circuits). I have put lamp.zip back up on my web page once again. The zip file contains scanned images of pages describing glow lamp logic circuits. The size is 1.6 MB. http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/lamp.zip These scans are from "General Electric Glow Lamp Manual", first edition, 1963 pages 45-66 I would appreciate someone hosting these scans because I don't have the space to keep it up there all the time. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 1 03:44:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Sellam on Tech tv (again) References: <20030301041910.85961.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006b01c2dfd6$de2ece40$0100000a@milkyway> Grr... SkyDigital have nearly every channel under the sun on their satellites, yet they still refuse to put TechTV on there. OK, so let's see what they've done on the tech front thus far: 1993 (iirc): Sky introduce "The Computer Channel" to their channel line up 1995 (iirc): Sky change name of "The Computer Channel" to "[.tv]" 2001: Sky decide that .tv isn't pulling in enough viewers, so they can it. And they don't just can it, they pull the website down, too. OK, fair enough, but there were some very useful tutorials up on there - Photoshop basics (that's how I learned to use Photoshop), MS Flightsim tutorials (for those unlucky people who bought a second-hand copy from a games shop without the manual), et cetera. Now where's that "rant mode" switch.. Ah, there it is... [* rant mode off] We now return you to your regularly scheduled classiccmping... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 1 03:55:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Sellam on TeeVee References: <004501c2dfb1$ab3b7080$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <007901c2dfd8$7e054600$0100000a@milkyway> Sue & Francois wrote: > OK we need DIVX, MPEGs or such.... > Francois > Minnesota I've got an NTSC capable VCR and a capture card. Anyone want to send me a VHS of the episode and let me Divx it? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 1 04:54:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030301032235.7010.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201c2dfe0$7dae79d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > All I wanted was a way with nothing but Windows to read a VMS > distro disc. I am now firmly convinced that no such thing is > possible without buying *some* piece of software. What was wrong with using CDRWin? As far as I can see, you can use the free demo version forever, assuming you can live with the restriction about burning at only 1x (which is hardly a limitation for this particular application). If you really mean *nothing* other than the standard Windows XP distribution, then you really are hosed (since the built-in burning capabilities can only seem to cope with ISO9660 and barf on ODS-2). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 1 04:58:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030301032235.7010.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c2dfe0$fd21e300$cb87fe3e@athlon> > There is no way any of this will make him see the light about > Linux or UNIX or anything... he's an HP Customer Engineer on > assignment with a company laptop and a Digital Personal Alpha > Workstation (VMS) > by his desk (no CD-R drive). The alternative is to load LDDRIVER from the OpenVMS Freeware CDs (or from the OpenVMS website). Configure a suitable sized container file. Do a BACKUP/IMAGE of the CD onto the LD drive. Dismount and disconnect the LD drive and do a binary ftp of the container file to the laptop. The CDRWin route is probably quicker unless his OpenVMS experience exceeds his Windows expereience. -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 1 05:06:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <000001c2dfc5$6f70a5c0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20030301110309.45583.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bob Lafleur wrote: > My RRD43 reads CDR's fine. That gives me something to inspire to. > BTW, I know it was asked, but not sure if it was answered. I have read > VMS install CD's into PC ISO files using Nero, then used them with SIMH > to create a VMS system from scratch. I think I've heard that, but I've also heard that it's version dependent. > I know I gave someone on this forum (was it you, Ethan?) some ISO's... > They were made with Easy CD Creator. It was not me. -ethan From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 1 05:09:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <20030301005622.M41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000401c2dfe2$8124f100$cb87fe3e@athlon> > > I'm not sure that the docs and the machines are in the same > > hands though (I've not been keeping track). > Well, I think you know that the person in question is Ragge. > Maybe someone should ask about VAX6000 support on port-vax. > Maybe there > is somthing going on that I am not aware of. I'm pretty sure I sent the docs to Johnny Billquist. It may be that he has the docs and Ragge has the hardware. Or it may be that my memory is failing and I sent him something else ... > > I thought it was VAX 7000 support that was on hold? > I think there was never any sort of effort of getting NetBSD > on the VAX 7000 / DEC 7000 due to very undocumented hardware. I have sent *some* docs (again to Johnny IIRC). My recollection is that there is enough to understand the CPU and I/O cards. Whether there is enough to do Laserbus support, I don't recall. My last two emails to Johnny got bounced because Update thinks ntl (ny ISP) relays spam. So feel free to ask either of them what is going on and point them my way if they don't have what I think they have. I don't yet have either a VAX 6000 or a VAX/DEC 7000 so there's no particular rush :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 1 05:13:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <000301c2dfe0$fd21e300$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030301110927.52448.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > > ... he's an HP Customer Engineer... a Personal Alpha > > Workstation (VMS) by his desk (no CD-R drive). > > The alternative is to load LDDRIVER from the OpenVMS Freeware CDs > (or from the OpenVMS website). Interesting suggestion. If his Alpha had a CD-ROM drive, that would almost certainly be a reasonable way to go. > The CDRWin route is probably quicker unless his OpenVMS experience > exceeds his Windows expereience. He's a VMS expert of many years (back to 3.x) -ethan From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 1 05:14:26 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <200302282314.SAA2610205@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <000501c2dfe3$276054b0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > If you could have seen my condo about 2 years ago, you would > have seen exactly what you described... machines, > documentation and disks everywhere, with only narrow paths > down either side of my living room so that I could get to the > machines, couch and tv (though one could not watch the tv > from the couch, as there was a row of dec tall cabs in the way). What's happened in the intervening two years - filled the gaps with more machines ? :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 1 05:19:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030301110309.45583.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c2dfe3$e9bf16e0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > > My RRD43 reads CDR's fine. > That gives me something to inspire to. RRD43 and RRD44 will (IIRC) usually read CD-R. My RRD42s would also usually read CD-Rs but they were somewhat more picky and would occasionally turn their noses up at some brands. I don't think I ever had an RRD45 or RRD46 to try. However, I originally said CD-R**W**. And I've not come across an RRD4x device that could read those. I expect that the later ones (RRD45/RRD46) are multiread and would work without a hitch, but I don't have any of those ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Mar 1 05:40:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E609C9E.3080403@charter.net> When I was working in process controls, we had PLC programming software from two different companies that would only run on certain processors. The original SLC-500 series software from Allen-Bradley would not run on a 486, but would scream on a 286 or 386. As soon as you tried to run it on a 486 or higher, instant crash, taking DOS totally down to the point only pushing the reset would reboot it. The PLC-2 series from ICOM would run on 8088-Pentiums, but faster than a 286 and the comm port control routines refused to communicate with the system making it totally useless. There was a MMI package we used, the names elludes me (it's early) that wouldn't run if installed on a hard drive over 240mb. It had a space checking routine that couldn't handle hard drives over 240mb, or a processor over a 486DX25. It would crash if either the drive was too large or if the system was too fast. All of this software was still current in 1994-98. As far as finding an older system, except for the 386 that is kind of a museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago. chris wrote: >> Fellow classic'ers, I have a very specific set of old radio service >>software packages that require running. Since they were written back when >>the 386 was still in the "Ooooh, Ahhhh!" phase, and discontinued soon >>after, they won't run reliably (if at all) on anything newer than a 486. >> >> > >I have some friends that make the same claim. That they have >radio/scanner programming software that will NOT work on anything newer >than a 386. I'm curious... WHY? What happens at the faster speeds that >makes it useless? I've tried asking my friends, but they are clueless on >these matters (and actually, all except one had no idea, they were making >the claim simply because they were told that was the case... only one >claims to have actually tried it). > >Is it something that is solveable by running some kind of speed killing >software (I had an app that did that. I used it to play old DOS games on >newer Pentium machines. The graphics ran so fast that the games were >unplayable, so I ran this processor stealing software and it slows the >machine down by the % you tell it to). > > > >> Here's what I'd like to find. A small tower-style 486, mini or mid, with >>PS/2 type ports for keyboard and mouse built in. Speed-wise, it should be >>in the DX33 or DX2/66 class. It should have switchable "Turbo/Non-Turbo" >>mode, either from a front-panel switch or from a keypress combination. >>Finally, it needs to have at least two PCI slots in addition to the usual >>ISA or EISA. >> >> > >Ugh.... should have asked a few months ago. I just junked scores of >486's. I'm sure one of them probably fit your bill (or at least came >close). I have some more coming up to be scrapped, so I'll keep an eye >out. > >-chris > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Mar 1 07:59:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England Message-ID: <200303011356.IAA2804337@shell.TheWorld.com> >What's happened in the intervening two years - filled the >gaps with more machines ? :-) Well, although I've acquired a few additional machines (and manuals, handbooks, software and other memorabilia), the condo is getting pretty empty of such stuff as I try (seemingly perpetually) to prepare it for sale... the machines are in storage (with a few machines being held for me at other locations) Someday I hope to have a house with a basement and garage where I can truly have the stuff available to be seen... Megan From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Mar 1 09:38:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Mirrored lamp.zip (was Re: Neon logic) In-Reply-To: <3E605CFD.A1E7292F@attbi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Doug Coward wrote: > Robert Nansel wrote: > > I came across reference to a file, LAMP.ZIP, you posted briefly for the > > Classic Computer list back in '99. Would it be possible for me to get this > > file? I'm fascinated by the idea of making counters, logic gates, and > > memory elements using neon lamps, but repeated google searches reveal very, > > very little hard information (other than there were such circuits). > > I have put lamp.zip back up on my web page > once again. The zip file contains scanned > images of pages describing glow lamp logic > circuits. The size is 1.6 MB. > http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/lamp.zip > > These scans are from "General Electric Glow Lamp Manual", > first edition, 1963 pages 45-66 > > I would appreciate someone hosting these scans > because I don't have the space to keep it up there > all the time. OK, it's been duped to: http://purdueriots.com/classiccmp/neon_lamp_logic/lamp.zip Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 1 09:56:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Litton Industries Monrobot XI computers available In-Reply-To: <005101c2df43$97f23130$030aa8c0@camaro> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Rick Bensene wrote: > The big part of the difference in speed between the PDP-8 and the > Monrobot XI is that the PDP-8 used random-access magnetic core memory as > the main memory and a parallel architecture, and the Monrobot machines > used magnetic drum and a bit-serial architecture. <...> Great information! Thanks, Rick. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Mar 1 10:01:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <200303010437.h214bOC16220@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 28, 2003 08:09:53 PM Message-ID: >That bit of info, coupled with Google, turned up the needed info. What you >need is the following Zip file mkimage_vax.zip Unfortuantly it's been >removed from the website. I'll try and find it tonite, hopefully I've >>still got a copy. I just checked, and unfortunatly I don't have a copy anymore :^( Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Mar 1 11:01:00 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Monrobot XI Instruction Card Message-ID: In case anyone is interested, I've posted a scan of the Monrobot XI Quikomp reference card. This is the language I used to program the Monrobot XI when I was in junior high school back in the 60's. I'm not sure if this is the actual machine language of the machine but it is the only documentation that I have left. It is on my rather lame web page is at: http://www.mv.com/ipusers/xlisper/index.html From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Mar 1 11:07:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system... References: <3E609C9E.3080403@charter.net> Message-ID: <002e01c2e014$18477860$0400fea9@game> Those packages have the same problems as older dos games. http://www.oldskool.org/pc/help/oldonnew/ "The second advantage is a natural resistance to obscure programming techniques, like self-modifying code. The 80386 doesn't have an internal cache like the 486 and higher, so most self-modifying code works as good as it did on the original 8088." I found alot of install routines written when the 386 was around would cause errors on faster machines because they hard coded timer loops for user input. Since the PLC software uses the comm ports and they are most likely buffered newer computers feed the data too fast for the serial port. One thing to try on faster machines is to disable internal and external cache in the system bios, then hit the turbo button to slow the processor down to 8mhz (if possible) If you really need a 386 motherboards with chip and memory can be found on ebay really cheap, but are not too common. Buying an old 386 from ebay isn't worth it because of the shipping costs of the heavy boat anchors, but motherboards are cheap. Getting a case from a local thrift store to run it in wouldn't be too expensive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system... > When I was working in process controls, we had PLC programming software > from two different companies that would only run on certain processors. > The original SLC-500 series software from Allen-Bradley would not run on > a 486, but would scream on a 286 or 386. As soon as you tried to run it > on a 486 or higher, instant crash, taking DOS totally down to the point > only pushing the reset would reboot it. The PLC-2 series from ICOM > would run on 8088-Pentiums, but faster than a 286 and the comm port > control routines refused to communicate with the system making it > totally useless. There was a MMI package we used, the names elludes me > (it's early) that wouldn't run if installed on a hard drive over 240mb. > It had a space checking routine that couldn't handle hard drives over > 240mb, or a processor over a 486DX25. It would crash if either the > drive was too large or if the system was too fast. All of this software > was still current in 1994-98. > > As far as finding an older system, except for the 386 that is kind of a > museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago. > > chris wrote: > > >> Fellow classic'ers, I have a very specific set of old radio service > >>software packages that require running. Since they were written back when > >>the 386 was still in the "Ooooh, Ahhhh!" phase, and discontinued soon > >>after, they won't run reliably (if at all) on anything newer than a 486. > >> > >> > > > >I have some friends that make the same claim. That they have > >radio/scanner programming software that will NOT work on anything newer > >than a 386. I'm curious... WHY? What happens at the faster speeds that > >makes it useless? I've tried asking my friends, but they are clueless on > >these matters (and actually, all except one had no idea, they were making > >the claim simply because they were told that was the case... only one > >claims to have actually tried it). > > > >Is it something that is solveable by running some kind of speed killing > >software (I had an app that did that. I used it to play old DOS games on > >newer Pentium machines. The graphics ran so fast that the games were > >unplayable, so I ran this processor stealing software and it slows the > >machine down by the % you tell it to). > > > > > > > >> Here's what I'd like to find. A small tower-style 486, mini or mid, with > >>PS/2 type ports for keyboard and mouse built in. Speed-wise, it should be > >>in the DX33 or DX2/66 class. It should have switchable "Turbo/Non-Turbo" > >>mode, either from a front-panel switch or from a keypress combination. > >>Finally, it needs to have at least two PCI slots in addition to the usual > >>ISA or EISA. > >> > >> > > > >Ugh.... should have asked a few months ago. I just junked scores of > >486's. I'm sure one of them probably fit your bill (or at least came > >close). I have some more coming up to be scrapped, so I'll keep an eye > >out. > > > >-chris > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From cb at mythtech.net Sat Mar 1 11:16:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: DEC Server 300 Message-ID: What does a DEC Server 300 look like? About how big are we talking about? I unloaded the dumpster pulls from last night, and one of the manuals was marked DEC Server 300. So I'm kind of assuming that might be the DEC the other parts came from. I'm thinking of going back for another dive tonight, so I'm wondering what exactly I should be looking for. Or if this is a large machine, I can pretty well say that it isn't in the dumpster. -chris From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Mar 1 11:59:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Dumpster Diving Goodies References: Message-ID: <000001c2e01c$04d6b040$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:18 AM Subject: Dumpster Diving Goodies > Its amazing what some people throw out. > > I just got back from a bit of dumpster diving. I pulled from a sizable > bin: > > Some various Digital parts and cables consisting of at least: a dot > matrix looking printer, a "Remote Services Console Unit" (whatever that > is, looks like maybe a terminal switch box), a A/B switch box, looks like > maybe for printers. It has a plastic key taped to the top, that I am > guessing goes to the actual DEC CPU, but I wasn't able to find that. A This is just what it says it is. A remote services console unit. It goes between the console VT and the VAX, and a modem gets plugged in to one of the ports. The key taped on top lets the VAX be switched from the VT to the modem, thus allowing DEC access to the computer. What color is the key? There was some discussion here a few weeks back about 'em. FYI, I don't know if these things were supplied with anything smaller than a VAX 6000-- at least that's the only one I've ever heard them being attached to. Also, I have one that I have no use for, if anyone wants it. I've heard they run some kind of sync DECnet on the modem side. > -chris Bob From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Mar 1 12:27:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: References: <20030301005622.M41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030301173903.GA852@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 03:42:45AM -0500, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > Well, I think you know that the person in question is Ragge. Maybe > > someone should ask about VAX6000 support on port-vax. Maybe there is > > somthing going on that I am not aware of. > Ragge has XMI docs? Antonio said that Johnny Billquist has the docs. I think Ragge has the VAX 6000 hardware and the skills to get NetBSD running on it. The other question is if Ragge has the time to do this... > I could use them. I have a VAX6600 and a DS5840 here > that I would like to work NetBSD on. Just ask Johnny Billquist for a copy? If the docs are printed versions and shipping acros the pond is too expensive I am willing to scan the docs if Johnny can send them to me (Germany). I have a scanner with ADF that already scaned the KA680 Technical Manual... > > > I thought it was VAX 7000 support that was on hold? > > I think there was never any sort of effort of getting NetBSD on the VAX > > 7000 / DEC 7000 due to very undocumented hardware. > Is there any difference between Laserbus and Turbolaser other than clock > rate? The AS8200/8400 are supported under NetBSD. Would it be possible > to leveredge any of that work for 7000 support? The DEC 7000 has Laserbus? I thought it has FutureBus+? Or was that the DEC 4000? -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From alhartman at yahoo.com Sat Mar 1 12:28:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppies In-Reply-To: <20030301180001.22048.44951.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030301182515.8292.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> When these drives came out, they were touted as being "as good as a regular floppy drive". Being 18, and of limited funds... I remember drooling over the flyers thinking of getting two of these drives and a bunch of tapes. My friends in the local TRS-80 Users Group kept talking me out of that (Kings Byte in Brooklyn). I guess, in retrospect... I'm glad they did. I remember that before I went to disk drives on my E/I, I used to load Level III BASIC (From Microsoft), which had corrected Cassette loading routines) when I would type in programs from magazines. I'm somewhat bummed out that my old Model I is kaput. I've got a bid on another non-working unit locally in South NJ, and if I can win that... I'm hoping to combine the two units into one working one. My old Model I is like a spaghetti factory inside, having the following mods: - Electric Pencil Lowercase Mod - Dennis Kitsz High Speed Mod (auto switching when disk drives or cassette are accessed). - Inverse Video (my friend added this, I hate it!) - Internal Speaker attached to cassette port (for game sounds) - Internal Alpha joystick adapter (just some diodes and a connector) - Reset Button - External Keyboard connector - Composite Video Out - Upgraded keyboard with keypad (it didn't have that originally) - XRX Mod (for more reliable tape loading - Gold Plugs But, the unit is a mess inside. I'd like to strip out a lot of the junk and see if I can get it working again. I've asked my friend who did the mods originally if he'd do that for me. Hopefully, the non-working unit I have my eye on is just a case of loose video RAM chips as the owner said it worked before he sold it to another buyer, and after it arrived it booted up with garbage on the screen. So, I'm hoping that opening the case and reseating some chips will fix it. I did a search and the 21L02 chips (1k x 8) for the video ram upgrade for Lowercase are still available. So, I can add the lowercase mod to it. And I can swap character generator chips with my old unit if need be. I'm hoping one of my two E/I's is still working so I can use it with this keyboard unit. Nostalgia... As for the A&J units, they worked pretty well when I used them at Zebra Systems. I used to load the Terminal program for the 2068 Modem onto one, so I could load it faster... I had a few carts tangle (like an 8 track player), but not many. It's funny, but in the Dennis Kitsz book he had a project to modify an 8 track recorder/player to serve as a mass storage device. The forerunner of Stringy Floppies and later Tape Drives, I guess.... I leafed through that book yesterday. What fun stuff there is in there.... I still have the whole series. Especially Disk and Other Mysteries.. Which was like my Bible back then. I can't remember how many hosed disks I recovered using that... Regards, Al Hartman From Technoid at 30below.com Sat Mar 1 12:36:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228170843.91393.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c2e021$3d05ad40$0100a8c0@benchbox> I'd like to know too. I ended up buying an RRD-40 cdrom drive as none of my other 512byte-selectable scsi cdrom drives would boot the hobby cd. I tried just to back the cd up onto cdr and got a trash cd. Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:09 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? I know exactly what to do under UNIX, but I'm attempting to help out someone else - I have the Montagar Hobbyist CD-ROM and I'm trying to create an ISO file to feed to SIMH. We have tried three different CD-ROM slurping programs from shareware.com and download.com, but no success. They seem to have heartburn because the disc is not mounted under Windows. Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did you get files off the distro? Thanks, -ethan From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Sat Mar 1 13:27:00 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? Message-ID: <200303011924.OAA14382@king.mcs.drexel.edu> --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > There is no way any of this will make him see the light about Linux > or UNIX or anything... he's an HP Customer Engineer on assignment > with a company laptop and a Digital Personal Alpha Workstation (VMS) > by his desk (no CD-R drive). Although I don't think this will help this particular guy, I would like to say that I have solved the usual "Do I run Windows or {Linux,*BSD} on my laptop" dilema by running both at the same time under VMware. I have installed OpenBSD on a separate partition (so that I can boot native if I have to), but I mostly boot Windows 2000 and run OpenBSD under VMware. I can then run a Windows-based X-Server (eXceed) and talk to the OpenBSD, and even use samba (on the OpenBSD) to mount filesystems from the Windows side. VMware allows direct access to devices (e.g. CDROM, USB,e tc) which means that I can mount any kind of CD and access it using Unix tools). OpenBSD can even see the network so that I can run ssh, IPsec etc from the OpenBSD environment rather than messing with the Windows equivalents. (like I said this is general FYI, which may or may not be particularly applicable to that particular guy). **vp From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Mar 1 13:28:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: DEC Server 300 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030301184701.GA947@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 12:13:02PM -0500, chris wrote: > What does a DEC Server 300 look like? [...] > Or if this is a large machine, I can pretty well say that it isn't > in the dumpster. A DECserver 300 is a 16 port (MMJ) terminal server. It is a 3U (?) 19" rack mountable box, maybe 1' deep. There is a stand alone version with plasic skins around the 19" box. You need to mop-boot it. The software is somwhere on the net. It speaks DECnet / LAT and TCP/IP. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From allain at panix.com Sat Mar 1 13:30:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Books & stuff that must go now References: <3E5FE077.5060209@bestweb.net> Message-ID: <003701c2e028$7e9b0f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I have a big pile of Computer & related books, plust > software, etc that need to be gotten rid of: > http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/ToGetRidOf.html Well I saw James and the stuff. Basically what was there was 15 standard boxes in unsorted order (or, sorted by size and not subject). Since I have my interests (DEC mainly) I had to sort the lot to find what's what. There is Some rejectable stuff, maybe 1 or 2 boxes, not more. But... There's Good News for the TRS80 hobbyist... About three full boxes of books, manuals, learning guides, software, and brochures. Right now I can say there's even multiples of RS catalogs 1980~1990 for more than 1 person here. Mainly I think this is a windfall for someone wanting to put together an everything TRS80 collectors setup, minus the computer, which I know many of you have. Possibly an opportunity to make some eBay ridicubucks for yourself, or, to save them. More? There's some literature for pocket computers ~1981, ZX81, a little CP/M, ... news later. John A. Guess what? only 5 DEC books! From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Mar 1 13:48:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: UK TV programme: The Programmers Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030301194022.00b5b3a0@slave> There's a programme on BBC2, Thursday 6th March at 6.30AM (yup, AM), called "The Programmers" It purports to be about "the history of computing, from hardware and software to programming, and the people who devised the code to make them work". I'll tape it (if I remember). I suspect it's an Open University programme, so with a bit of luck it'll show some truly old hardware, as well as some shocking kipper ties and psychedelic chunky-knit jumpers :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 1 13:59:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <000701c2e021$3d05ad40$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <000001c2e02c$9f14d280$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I'd like to know too. I ended up buying an RRD-40 cdrom > drive as none of my other 512byte-selectable scsi cdrom > drives would boot the hobby cd. > > I tried just to back the cd up onto cdr and got a trash cd. How did you try to back it up? Even if the backup was OK, the RRD40 may have issues with CD-R media: remember it is a very old drive and my experience is that they are pretty picky about what they'll read. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 1 14:02:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <20030301173903.GA852@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000101c2e02d$02ee7f90$cb87fe3e@athlon> > The DEC 7000 has Laserbus? I thought it has FutureBus+? Or > was that the > DEC 4000? I think the VAX and DEC 7000 (and 10000) series are all Laserbus. The DEC 4000-600 and -700 are indeed Futurebus. Those and the DECnis are the only Futurebus boxes DEC built AFAIK. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 1 14:32:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: HP 7905/7906 ??? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030301153550.0f478ade@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Any body on here seriously interested in the HP 7905 and 7906 disk drives? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 1 14:36:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Anybody know what a HP 12995 is? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030301153941.5a870dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just like the title says. Joe From aek at spies.com Sat Mar 1 16:14:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: HP 7905/9706 ?? Message-ID: <200303012213.h21MDoaj004057@spies.com> >Any body on here seriously interested in the HP 7905 and 7906 disk drives? possibly, depending on location (i'm in the SF bay area) 12995 isn't showing up on any of my parts lists. Was it an HP1000 interface card? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 1 16:48:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4 help requested In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Feb 28, 3 07:54:44 pm Message-ID: > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > Aparently, the Drive 0: is bad. Replacing it with the 1: or an > > > > > > > > Does the spindle motor run on this drive when you try to boot from it? > > > > Does the LED come on? > > > > > > Sorry, guess I should have been more specific. The (drive that was > > > 0:) drive spins, and the LED comes on, but the machine still says "Cass?". > > > > OK... > > > > What test equipment do you have available? Multimeter? Logic probe? Logic > > analyser? 'scope? > > "Yes." I've actually got all of those. Don't particularly like using my OK, excellent! > DMM to observe changing signals, though... I need to find/build myself a > decent analog meter sometime. Yes, I find an analogue VOM to be more useful than a digital one for most tests. It's rarely necessary to have a precise measurement of a voltage (or whatever), it's much more useful to be able to see fluctuations. However, the first tests probably will use the DMM. You should check the output voltages of both PSUs in the machine. One can be checked at the CPU board J4 connector (+5V, ground, +12V, -12V). The other at a disk drive power connector (standard pinout). Assuming the power supply voltages are OK, now try moving the drive head (on drive 0) towards the spindle (off track 0) with the machine off. Put in a disk and turn on. Does the head restore to track 0? If so, then the CPU board is talking to the disk controller, and the latter is doing something. The drives have the standard pinout : All odd # pins : gorund 8 : Index 10 : Select 0 12 : Select 1 16 : Motor On 18 : Step Direction 20 : Step Pulse 22 : Write Data 24 : Write Gate 26 : Track 00 28 : Write Protect 30 : Read Data 32 : Side Select (Others not used on the controller) With the machine trying to boot, look at the Index signal with the logic probe. Is it pulsing? If you can, measure the frequency (should be 5Hz, corresponding to 300 rpm). Grab the read data signal with the logi analyser. You're not trying to decode the data, but does it look reasonable? Now look at the disk controller board. There should be a 4MHz clock on TP18. Also check for 1 MHz clock on the outputs of U24b ('74). Lok at U4 ('244). The outputs of sections (a) and (b) are the read and write lines to the disk controller -- and are gated on the CPU board with the appropriate drive select (CS/ on the disk controller chip is grounded). Do these go low? If not, you may have CPU board problems. OK so far? Check the output of U15a ('123), which is the (slightly processed) read data signal from the drive. Is that toggling? Look at TP11 too. That's the read clock output of the WD1691 chip. Is that clcoking (and on-frequency)? Look at the DRQ signal (output of U16f ('367)). Is that changing state? If not, then for some reason the disk controller chip doesn't think it's transfering data. Could be a problem with the 1793 (I've had to change a number of these), or CPU board problems. > > > I can probably suggest signals to look at to find out exactly what's > > going on... > > That would be most appreciated. > > > > The other drive (which I had replaced it with) attempts to read from the > > > disk, and either displays "Diskette?" or nothing if there's no disk in the > > > drive or a disk, respectively. > > > > Of course at this point you don't _know_ that the disk controller or CPU > > boards are working correctly... > > That's what I'm betting the problem is.. it'd be nice to be able to rule > out the drive controller and CPU board. Which CPU board do you have? I only have information on the older one, which has 2 40 pin chips (the Z80 CPU and a 6845 CRT controller, maybe with a strange number, next to each other) and a load of small PALs and TTL on it. I beleive later boards have a larger custom gate array chip on them. [Terminatior] > > Are you sure? It normally goes in a DIL socket near the interface cable. > > Is there a totally empty socket on both drives? > > There's a SIP socket pretty much 'on top of' the I/O connector. I don't If it _is_ a SIP, then these are not the normal drives for an M4 (this is an M4, right, not an M4P or M4D). Doesn't mean they can't work (Radio Shack used standard drives, and my M4 has very non-stnadard drives (2 40 cylinder, 2 80 cylinder, all DS, all internal!). The only problem will be that I may not have service data on the drives. > see anything else (DIP shaped) on the board that isn't a 'normal' black > plastic IC. I'll check again, but unless it's mounted inside the drive... No, it's on the logic board. > > > > What resistance is it? I could probably try making one out of spare > > > > 150 Ohms, but I can't remember if the resistors are separate or if they > > have a common connection to the highest-numbered pin on the package. I > > think the former. > > OK, I think I have one of those laying around, with a common pin. If the > RAM swapping doesn't help, then I'll finding a terminator pack to stick in > there. Oh wait, I have one right here from a SCSI drive. Yes, testing it > with my handy-dandy crappy-DVM, it's 148ohms. I might try this first. Watch out. SCSI termiantors are not simple resistor-to-Vcc networks. They're potential dividers (220 Ohms to Vcc, 330 Ohms to ground normally). Not really what you want here. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 1 16:49:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: Neon logic In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Feb 28, 3 08:20:11 pm Message-ID: > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > There's a reasonable book on this subject called 'Cold Cathode Tube > > Circuit Design'. It covers things like gas-filled voltage stabilisers, > > trigger tubes (the cold cathode thyratrons you mention), dekatrons, etc. > > > Unfortunately at less-than-reasonable prices! www.abebooks.com gives > three copies; US$144, 175, and 407 (!!) for ex-library books.... I Ouch!!! It's not a very thick book (a couple of hundred pages) and I didn't realise it was rare. I got my copy for a couple of pounds in a second hand bookshop about 20 years ago. It is quite an interesting book (I've dug mine out), it does show shift register and counter circuits, for example. But not at that price! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 1 16:49:18 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 In-Reply-To: <3E60145A.D55ED870@sasquatch.com> from "pavl" at Feb 28, 3 06:00:58 pm Message-ID: > The on-cpu SLU was so bad it was amazing! Every revision of the Apart from the rediculous RC clock (!), what else was wrong with it? -tony From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 1 16:53:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: UK TV programme: The Programmers References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030301194022.00b5b3a0@slave> Message-ID: <000e01c2e045$2fb5bd00$0100000a@milkyway> Adrian Vickers wrote: > There's a programme on BBC2, Thursday 6th March at 6.30AM (yup, AM), > called "The Programmers" [snippety snip] Thanks for the heads up - I'll put it on the VCR timer when I get chance. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 1 17:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:37 2005 Subject: HP 7905/9706 ?? In-Reply-To: <200303012213.h21MDoaj004057@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030301182239.3caf650a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:13 PM 3/1/03 -0800, you wrote: >>Any body on here seriously interested in the HP 7905 and 7906 disk drives? > >possibly, depending on location (i'm in the SF bay area) > >12995 isn't showing up on any of my parts lists. Was it an HP1000 interface card? I don't know but it has something to do with aligning the 7905/7906 since that's the PN prefix on the alignment disk. I also have some other parts with the same prefix. Joe From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Mar 1 18:00:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter Message-ID: <200303012357.SAA25630@drs-esg.com> >From: Ethan Dicks > >--- David Gesswein wrote: >> I just got a Calcomp 563 incremental plotter. > >Is that powder blue, kind of an A-Frame design? I had to pass on one >a few years ago because I could _not_ fit it into a full-sized cargo >van - it was 2" too tall at the frame. > Similar >The Calcomp Plotter I saw had a permanently affixed sprocketed mylar loop >that you taped drafting paper down to. Perhaps you could find/make that? > >Maybe we are not talking about the same device. You have pictures? > That idea might work but making the loop will be some work. Haven't had any luck on finding paper yet. Do now. http://www.pdp8.net/563/563.shtml From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Mar 1 18:28:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: decserver 550 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0cb401c2debd$74e057c0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030301192018.00a1ed50@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Zane and Stuart, Jonathan seems to be the expert on this. Check this out. http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/PDP-11_53.htm http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/KDJ11.htm http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/pdp-11.htm Best Regards At 06:08 PM 2/27/03 -0600, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Zane H. Healy" >To: >Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:36 PM >Subject: Re: decserver 550 in Kansas City > > > No, I simply find it a little odd that the main OS to be used on systems > > built from DECserver 550 boards is 2.11BSD. In fact I'm not sure I've > > heard of anyone running anything else on one. > > > > Zane > > -- > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > > | | Classic Computer Collector | > > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > > >Zane, I would suspect that BSD is because it is FREE, multi-user, and >multi-tasking. RT-11, RSX, etc. aren't free. I managed to purchase a RT-11 >license back when I worked for a DEC OEM. We made MIL-STD 1553 data bus >controllers and sold a complete testing station built around both QBUS and >UNIBUS machines. In fact, I wrote the drivers for both RT-11 and VMS that >were provided with the systems. > >As best as I recall, I paid $800+ for the full RT-11, which was, as I >remember, about my company's cost. I think retail was and sill is about >$1500. I didn't get any manuals, but didn't need them as I had access at >work. > >As for myself, my first choice for running on an 11/53 built out of a >DECserver 550, which I am currently doing, would be TSX Plus over RT-11. Too >bad about that, huh - I'm not paying for TSX Plus for use in a hobby. RT-11 >I have. I MAY try the BSD, as I never played with it in its day. It could >even be educational! > >I'm still kicking myself over the $3,500 I spent on SCO Open Desktop >Developers kit, PLUS $500 to join their developers program so that I could >get the OS and tools AT THAT PRICE!!! Linux is MUCH more stable and is >downloadable for zilch. The (GCC) compiler doesn't dump core if you try to >get a listing either, unlike the SCO (Microsoft) compiler. > >Regards, >Stuart Johnson From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 18:52:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? Message-ID: I picked up an HP 2100A a couple of days ago and before I do anything with it I'd like to find some hardware reference docs which describe the boards which should be installed, along with schematics and such. I haven't found a copy on the web. Does anyone know where a copy might be found? I have no idea if I have a full set of cards for a functional CPU. All of the blue slots are full of A1-A9 cards. I assume those are the main CPU logic cards. It also looks like there is a 4K two card core memory set (XYD/SSA) plus an 8K two card core memory set. Plus whatever the ID/IDL/DC cards do. The power switch key is gone. Is there a way to bypass that? Also the F5 fuse cap and fuse is gone from the back panel. I hope that is not a sign of power supply problems. The boards installed in the CPU card cages are the following: Front Cage Rear Cage A1 XYD -\ 02100-60052 top jumper A2 SSA(4K) -/ A3 SSA -\ 02100-60054 top jumper A4 XYD -/ A5 ID(16K) -\ \ ribbon cable top jumpers A6 IDL | / A7 DC -/ A8 A9 (twelve empty slots) TERM BUF'R'D TTY 12531 _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From jss at subatomix.com Sat Mar 1 19:25:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) In-Reply-To: <32886.64.169.63.74.1046422247.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <006701c2dee8$cac98aa0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> <609114706.20030227234014@subatomix.com> <32886.64.169.63.74.1046422247.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1402656910.20030301192146@subatomix.com> On Friday, February 28, 2003, Eric Smith wrote: >> Where's all their classic stuff? All I see is 5-year-old PC/Mac stuff. > > In the "As-is" room, of course. Yeah, but IIRC they used to have a more detailed web site built around that, where you could "dig dig dig dig". It's a shame that that isn't around anymore. -- Jeffrey Sharp From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Mar 1 19:39:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) References: <006701c2dee8$cac98aa0$0201a8c0@netadelxp> <609114706.20030227234014@subatomix.com> <32886.64.169.63.74.1046422247.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1402656910.20030301192146@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <000a01c2e05b$b0ed9080$272a1941@neo.rr.com> Do they have an inventory sheet? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) > On Friday, February 28, 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > >> Where's all their classic stuff? All I see is 5-year-old PC/Mac stuff. > > > > In the "As-is" room, of course. > > Yeah, but IIRC they used to have a more detailed web site built around that, > where you could "dig dig dig dig". It's a shame that that isn't around > anymore. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Mar 1 20:13:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: DEC Server 300 References: Message-ID: <0e7a01c2e060$c15aa2a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: DEC Server 300 > What does a DEC Server 300 look like? About how big are we talking about? > > I unloaded the dumpster pulls from last night, and one of the manuals was > marked DEC Server 300. So I'm kind of assuming that might be the DEC the > other parts came from. I'm thinking of going back for another dive > tonight, so I'm wondering what exactly I should be looking for. Or if > this is a large machine, I can pretty well say that it isn't in the > dumpster. > > -chris > A DECserver 300 is about 19"x12"x4.5", weighs 10-15 lbs (guessing), and has 16 MMJ's (modified modular jack), an AUI (thickwire Ethernet), and a 10Base5 (coax Ethernet) connection on the rear. Mine has a "tabletop" plastic shell on it with rubber feet under it, although many of these were sold without the case and were rack mounted. My unit has a beige-ish plastic shell over a gray metal box. Units without the plastic shell with be gray and "gold" alodyne finished" aluminum. The unit will say DECserver on both the front & back and have a sticker on the rear with an Ethernet MAC address, something like: "08-00-26-19-ac-3b". The address is used to tell a host computer how to locate it so that the operating software can be downloaded into the unit when it is powered on. It is NOT a computer (although it contains a computer) - it is a terminal server, connecting serial terminals like VT220, VT320, etc. to VAX or other system over Ethernet. The protocol used was typically LAT, a non-routable but very efficient protocol. Please PLEASE keep the book - I am sure someone will want it as they are MUCH harder to locate than the device itself! I would ask for it but I already have both the DECserver and a manual. If you have more questions, and we seem to be talking about the same device, please ask away. I am no "expert" on this thing, but I used one and worked with it for many years. Stuart Johnson From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Mar 1 20:37:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? References: Message-ID: <008f01c2e064$22453eb0$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> going off the top of my head.... you have a complete cpu set, with DMA option, and I think mem protect (forget what the other optional board is in A8 or A9). You have at least 8K for sure, possibly 12K. From memory, I'm thinking the TERM board is in the wrong location. You have an RS232 (think it does 20ma too) serial interface for a console terminal. No other peripheral I/O cards. I can get you a copy made of my keys, may even have an extra key or two, I'll check if you can't find one. I love these boxes, but then, I'm biased. Think most of the docs are up on Al's website. If there's something you can't find feel free to drop me a line. Jay West From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 20:48:20 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? References: <20030228175747.965.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I believe the name of the tool was "mkimage". I took a quick look on their site but couldn't find it. All I could find for download was "mkdisk" but this does not seem to be able to extract from and ods-2 cd, it just looks like it creates an empty disk image for use by the emulator. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >Has anyone gone from CD-ROM to running VAX under Windows? How did > > >you get files off the distro? > > > > Take a look around the Charon-VAX site, they're back to offering a > > Hobbyist > > version I hear, and when they first released their emulator you could > > download a tool to do this. > > Hmm... he _has_ played with Charon. I'll see if he has that tool. > > -ethan From OwnedByDogs at grandecom.net Sat Mar 1 20:49:06 2003 From: OwnedByDogs at grandecom.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Question In-Reply-To: <20030228222424.88399.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > This whole Model IV thread has got me interested in > getting a working unit again. > The thread has inspired me to pull my Model IV out of the closet and fire it up. Still works great. Some of the keys on the keyboard are a bit stubborn. Anyone have any tips for negotiating with the Model IV keyboard. I've never tried taking it apart. Kevin From melamy at earthlink.net Sat Mar 1 20:49:24 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Motorola MCM6665BP20 Specs Message-ID: <28020359.58329@webbox.com> Hi Tim, The format is 64K x 1 with an access time of 200ns. It was introduced sometime before 1982 as it appears in my 1982 IC Master. I have specs for the 6664 part if that would help, but it is supposed to be compatible with the more generic 4164 chip in case you already have specs for that. Best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "Tim" >To: >Date: 2/28/03 2:02:18 PM > G'day, >I've recently been going through a few items I had tucked away & found a bunch >of IC's... >Now I'm going through them, one by one, & trying to find as much info I can >find. > >So far, I've found nothing on the Motorola MCM6665BP20, a 16pin chip with a >secondary code of FQD8432. >I'm trying to find complete specs, any idea's? > >Thanks in advance, > >Tim. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Mar 1 20:49:41 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <6418DE00-4B5B-11D7-B0AF-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of David HM Spector > Sent: 28 February 2003 20:30 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England > > > Looks like there's a DEC MINC-11 in good condition to be > > had for free in the North of England. Please, somebody go > > save this thing from the skip! Maybe Adrian "Two Sheds" > > Vickers can use it for a climate control system for his > > garage... ;^) > > I'm on it - I'm maybe 2 hours away from there so I can pick up, assuming a) I can get it in the garage and b) my girlfriend doesn't kill me :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Mar 1 20:49:59 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <200302281710.h1SHALg08199@io.crash.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Steve Jones > Sent: 28 February 2003 17:12 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England > > > Looks like there's a DEC MINC-11 in good condition to be > had for free in the North of England. Please, somebody go > save this thing from the skip! Maybe Adrian "Two Sheds" > Vickers can use it for a climate control system for his > garage... ;^) There's more than 1 Adrian here too, and since I'm 'relaxing' between jobs I can go and pick up.... -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From francois at auradon.com Sat Mar 1 20:50:17 2003 From: francois at auradon.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Calcupen Message-ID: <004101c2dfb0$b712dca0$0264640a@auradon.com> Hi all, How would one go about disassembling a calcupen? Mine is not coming up anymore with a fresh battery. I would like to see what's up inside: look for corosion and stuff. Thanks Francois Minnesota From vance at neurotica.com Sat Mar 1 20:50:35 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <20030301005622.M41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > I'm not sure that the docs and the machines are in the same hands > > though (I've not been keeping track). > Well, I think you know that the person in question is Ragge. Maybe > someone should ask about VAX6000 support on port-vax. Maybe there is > somthing going on that I am not aware of. Ragge has XMI docs? I could use them. I have a VAX6600 and a DS5840 here that I would like to work NetBSD on. > > I thought it was VAX 7000 support that was on hold? > I think there was never any sort of effort of getting NetBSD on the VAX > 7000 / DEC 7000 due to very undocumented hardware. Is there any difference between Laserbus and Turbolaser other than clock rate? The AS8200/8400 are supported under NetBSD. Would it be possible to leveredge any of that work for 7000 support? Peace... Sridhar From charlesmorris at direcway.com Sat Mar 1 20:50:53 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L: multiple failed 7440's date code 7005 Message-ID: <6hh16vk1m1gnd7p470nj2ufojgvafu6bbg@4ax.com> I have been busy debugging my PDP-8/L that last worked when stored in the barn around 1995. It is slowly coming back to life - still having problems with the core memory. I have noted one strange and recurrent problem. So far I have changed nine bad 7440's on a variety of modules, mostly core drivers (G221, G228) which have had their outputs stuck, usually high. All of them were labeled "DEC7440" with a date code of 7005! Currently lower page locations won't write the lower bits 5-11 (or at least return zeroes). The only common denominator for data bits 5-11 are at slot A09, where the MEM ENABLE 5-11 and MA ENABLE 5-11 lines are driven by, you guessed it, M617's featuring 7440's. Haven't verified this yet but it's a safe bet where at least some of the problem is! Has anyone else experienced this problem? Seems like the chip manufacturer must have had a few specks of dust in the fab room that day in Apr. 1970... -Charles From MBuhler at itt-tech.edu Sat Mar 1 20:51:11 2003 From: MBuhler at itt-tech.edu (Max Buhler at 036) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: An H89 issue Message-ID: Hi Tom, I found you after a google search. I used to have several working H89s but I got rid of all them. Now I've found 5 H89 floppies which I think contain good information but of course I can't read them any longer. I live in Grand Rapids Michigan and would drive a couple of hours to visit someone who owns a working H89 just to find out what is on those floppies. Do you know of anyone who could help me? Max Buhler: mbuhler@itt-tech.edu From charlesmorris at direcway.com Sat Mar 1 20:51:28 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: More PDP-8/L repair fun (bits won't read/write) Message-ID: Some of my bits not setting turned out to be bad parts on the front panel! 15 years ago I installed LEDs/resistors in place of all the (mostly burned out) incandescent lamps. One had a cracked composition resistor, and the other an open (base-emitter) driver transistor. As I posted earlier, the problem with the core not reading/writing bits 5-11 was indeed the MEM ENABLE signal from the M617 in slot A09. But the 7440 was good for a change (not one of the bad batch with 7005 date code). Turns out the wire from that pin on the backplane was installed too tightly at the factory and had shorted through the insulation to a ground pin. Now the core works, and CPU executes various test programs; SR, AC, MB, MA all working fine... EXCEPT it won't read/write on any of the 128 bytes of page 0! Going to try to figure that one out tonight... Another strange find - the PROTECT key did not, in fact, protect the upper page (7600-7777) of core. I found a factory-appearing wire on the backplane, jumpering the output of an inverter directly to ground! Some idiot probably was bothered by noise giving false PROT errors or couldn't figure out that the switch is off when in the down position, and just shorted the signal out. Now that works, too. Didn't fix the page-0 problem either. The DF and IF switches do nothing (i.e. flipping them does not bomb a running program, or prevent reading/writing from the front panel switches), but I think that's normal without the extra 4K installed. -Charles From vance at neurotica.com Sat Mar 1 20:51:46 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <000101c2e02d$02ee7f90$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > The DEC 7000 has Laserbus? I thought it has FutureBus+? Or was that > > the DEC 4000? > > I think the VAX and DEC 7000 (and 10000) series are all Laserbus. > > The DEC 4000-600 and -700 are indeed Futurebus. Those and the DECnis are > the only Futurebus boxes DEC built AFAIK. I think there's a Futurebus hose for the 8200/8400. Not sure though. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Mar 1 20:52:05 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <20030301173903.GA852@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > Well, I think you know that the person in question is Ragge. Maybe > > > someone should ask about VAX6000 support on port-vax. Maybe there is > > > somthing going on that I am not aware of. > > Ragge has XMI docs? > Antonio said that Johnny Billquist has the docs. I think Ragge has the > VAX 6000 hardware and the skills to get NetBSD running on it. The other > question is if Ragge has the time to do this... Cool. I'll ping Johnny. > > I could use them. I have a VAX6600 and a DS5840 here that I would > > like to work NetBSD on. > Just ask Johnny Billquist for a copy? If the docs are printed versions > and shipping acros the pond is too expensive I am willing to scan the > docs if Johnny can send them to me (Germany). I have a scanner with ADF > that already scaned the KA680 Technical Manual... I'll ask. > > > > I thought it was VAX 7000 support that was on hold? > > > I think there was never any sort of effort of getting NetBSD on the VAX > > > 7000 / DEC 7000 due to very undocumented hardware. > > Is there any difference between Laserbus and Turbolaser other than clock > > rate? The AS8200/8400 are supported under NetBSD. Would it be possible > > to leveredge any of that work for 7000 support? > The DEC 7000 has Laserbus? I thought it has FutureBus+? Or was that the > DEC 4000? The VAX/DEC 7000 is definitely Laserbus. I have one of them here. I don't really feel the need to try two big projects at once, but if someone has a suggestion as to how I can make the machine available for use to someone else, I'd be willing. Peace... Sridhar From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 1 20:57:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: NEXT Keyboard question Message-ID: <20030302025359.OAIQ29141.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> A friend has a slab but is missing the keyboard. Will a MAC keyboard also work? Does anyone have the pinout to let him rebuild one? From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat Mar 1 21:15:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: An H89 issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030301211359.0199c828@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Max, I have an H89, but I'm not sure it is 100% working as I don't have any software for it. I live in NW Indiana, so we are at least close... --tom At 01:49 PM 3/1/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Tom, > > I found you after a google search. > > I used to have several working H89s but I got rid of all them. Now I've >found 5 H89 floppies which I think contain good information but of course I >can't read them any longer. I live in Grand Rapids Michigan and would drive >a couple of hours to visit someone who owns a working H89 just to find out >what is on those floppies. Do you know of anyone who could help me? > > Max Buhler: mbuhler@itt-tech.edu From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat Mar 1 21:16:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBF5@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > I'm on it - I'm maybe 2 hours away from there so I can pick up, assuming a) > I can get it in the garage and b) my girlfriend doesn't kill me :) I'll send flowers. 8^)= Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Mar 1 21:21:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: NEXT Keyboard question References: <20030302025359.OAIQ29141.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E6177C0.8080701@eoni.com> Mike wrote: > A friend has a slab but is missing the keyboard. > > Will a MAC keyboard also work? > Should. I've used NeXT ADB keyboards on my Mac. Jim -- If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb ~ From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Mar 1 21:21:22 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: NEXT Keyboard question In-Reply-To: <20030302025359.OAIQ29141.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <85B8B2C3-4C5D-11D7-9C10-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, March 1, 2003, at 09:50 PM, Mike wrote: > A friend has a slab but is missing the keyboard. > > Will a MAC keyboard also work? Possibly. It depends on the slab. Most NeXT machines used a proprietary keyboard, but some of the later ones used ADB (Apple Desktop Bus) and were therefore compatible with Macintosh keyboards. A quick way to check is to look at the bottom of the sound box, if the first three characters in the serial number are "ABN", then you need a true NeXT keyboard. I think the ones that used ADB had a prefix of "ADD". Unless the system can use ADB, you are probably better off getting an actual NeXT keyboard off eBay. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Mar 1 21:59:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: NEXT Keyboard question In-Reply-To: <20030302025359.OAIQ29141.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <20030302025359.OAIQ29141.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E6181EE.9020606@charter.net> Depends on the slab. If it's a non-ADB slab, the answer is no. But real non-ADB keyboards go for $10-15 on ebay. It will also dependo n his ROM version. It has to be v.74 or better to use an ADB keyboard. Does he have the NeXT mouse? If it's a rectangle it's non-ADB, if it's round it's ADB. Also is the slab a color slab or a mono slab? If it's mono, he will need the N4000a or N4000b monitor, if it's a color slab, he will need the soundbox and the Y cable. James Mike wrote: >A friend has a slab but is missing the keyboard. > >Will a MAC keyboard also work? > >Does anyone have the pinout to let him rebuild one? > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From n8uhn at yahoo.com Sat Mar 1 22:15:01 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system Message-ID: <20030302041206.19815.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Very interesting reading, I also have a few 8088 games the will not run on todays machines,mostly due the the hardcoded timeing loops. one would think that by now someone would write a cpu slowdown pgm that does not affect the hardcoded graphics code - like all the current ones do. i have most of the ge numalogic "pc loader" for the pc900 - pc1100 and the pc based programer for ge series 6 model 60 plc's. i also have to use a 486 and lower on the plc and motorola radio programming software. the reason that these programs will not run on a faster then 486 (some only run releably on a 286) is that the cpu speed runs the coded loops too fast. that results in the pgm trying to read/write to the device (radio or plc) faster then the programs i/o instructions can respond. i have had no trouble useing high speed serial ports with the newer uart's. the slowdown programs "time wasting cpu loop" does slow down the program run, but the loop chops up the i/o also and the devices always want 100% of the i/o ports attenation - which results in the i/o loop being droped and/or the program hanging or looping. the problem could be a good one though, at least we do have a use for the 8088's to 486's ;) Bill Message: 30 From: "TeoZ" To: Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system... Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:00:32 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Those packages have the same problems as older dos games. http://www.oldskool.org/pc/help/oldonnew/ "The second advantage is a natural resistance to obscure programming techniques, like self-modifying code. The 80386 doesn't have an internal cache like the 486 and higher, so most self-modifying code works as good as it did on the original 8088." I found alot of install routines written when the 386 was around would cause errors on faster machines because they hard coded timer loops for user input. Since the PLC software uses the comm ports and they are most likely buffered newer computers feed the data too fast for the serial port. One thing to try on faster machines is to disable internal and external cache in the system bios, then hit the turbo button to slow the processor down to 8mhz (if possible) If you really need a 386 motherboards with chip and memory can be found on ebay really cheap, but are not too common. Buying an old 386 from ebay isn't worth it because of the shipping costs of the heavy boat anchors, but motherboards are cheap. Getting a case from a local thrift store to run it in wouldn't be too expensive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system... > When I was working in process controls, we had PLC programming software > from two different companies that would only run on certain processors. > The original SLC-500 series software from Allen-Bradley would not run on > a 486, but would scream on a 286 or 386. As soon as you tried to run it > on a 486 or higher, instant crash, taking DOS totally down to the point > only pushing the reset would reboot it. The PLC-2 series from ICOM > would run on 8088-Pentiums, but faster than a 286 and the comm port > control routines refused to communicate with the system making it > totally useless. There was a MMI package we used, the names elludes me > (it's early) that wouldn't run if installed on a hard drive over 240mb. > It had a space checking routine that couldn't handle hard drives over > 240mb, or a processor over a 486DX25. It would crash if either the > drive was too large or if the system was too fast. All of this software > was still current in 1994-98. > > As far as finding an older system, except for the 386 that is kind of a > museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago. From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Mar 1 22:21:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: LK250 Keyboard available Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030301202207.03db8520@mail.zipcon.net> I'm pretty sure it's a LK250, this is a Dec Keyboard for PC's I've used it on AT class machines, but it's been gathering dust for a few years. (think LK201 for PeeCee) asking $30 plus S&H OBO (make me an offer, It can't hurt to ask) From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Mar 1 22:22:00 2003 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: SOLUTION: Reading a VMS CD-ROM for SIMH under Windows? In-Reply-To: <20030228183810.63162.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I ran across the following web page: http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/ods2.zip This program lets you mount a CDROM under windows (I tested it on XP), and navigate the file system like you was running VMS. It requires a file which appears to be licensed, but is available as part of the demo version of a popular CD-R burning program named after a Roman emperor with a penchant for music during conflagrations. Reqards, Clint PS Deliberate obfuscation to prevent web searches by the licenser getting a certain software publisher in trouble... On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I've not actually attempted to use the results with SIMH, so > > all I'm reporting is that CDRWin is reading *something* from > > the CD! I'd burn the result to a CDRW if I thought any of > > my RRD4x devices could cope. > > I already have verified that my RRD42 does _not_ like CD-R > media. :-( > > -ethan From rickb at bensene.com Sat Mar 1 22:34:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L: multiple failed 7440's date code 7005 In-Reply-To: <6hh16vk1m1gnd7p470nj2ufojgvafu6bbg@4ax.com> Message-ID: <001201c2e074$8e27b3f0$030aa8c0@camaro> Charles wrote: > All of them were labeled "DEC7440" with a date > code of 7005! > > Seems like the chip > manufacturer must have had a few specks of dust in the fab > room that day in Apr. 1970... > Sorry I don't have anything to add about the apparently failing group of 7440 IC's, but I do have a comment about date codes. The date code of 7005 would actually be late January, 1970, specifically, somewhere during the week of Sun-25 through Sat-31. The last two digits of the date code are the week, not the month, of the year. Rick Bensene From jss at subatomix.com Sat Mar 1 22:36:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: ASR-32 Usable as Terminal? Message-ID: <8414128595.20030301223258@subatomix.com> George R. Gonzalez wrote: > I'm in a bit of an embarrasing situation-- after getting this nice Model > 32 WU tty, tsting it out, finding out it works perfectly, I finally > realize -- I don't have any space for it! ... So I've reluctantly put it > up for auction on eBay. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3010656618 I just realized, *after* bidding, that this TTY on eBay is a 32, not a 33. Oops. Since it uses baudot code instead of ASCII and has a rotary dialer on its CCU, is it useless as a terminal for a PDP-11? What would be required to make it useful for a terminal? I'm thinking that I should cancel my bid. I want a TTY solely to have a period terminal for my PDP-11/20. :-/ Yes, I have read the following in the "vital poop" thread: > Before you spend big bucks on ebay > ---------------------------------- > A Model 33 has a four-row keyboard (not including the space bar). > A Model 32 has a three-row keyboard (not including the space bar). > The 33 is ascii, and the 32 is baudot. > You cannot (prctically) modify a 32 into a 33. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 1 23:14:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Sellam on TeeVee In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Yo Sellam: good job on Screensavers this afternoon! > > A nice look at one of the last Apple 1s.... Thanks! It was fun as always. Expect more similar segments in the future. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 1 23:20:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Sellam on Tech tv (again) In-Reply-To: <20030301041910.85961.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > BTW any more info or updates an that very rare fps mini? I was meaning to respond to a message you wrote a couple weeks ago: > the the sys 460 is a two rack system - 1 rack had the diablo disk drive, > hard drive and i/o comms interface (i have all of those components and > alot of spare cpu and terminal pcb's). > > the other rack had both the iv 70 and iv 90 cpu's in it. This sounds an awful lot like what I have. > the iv 70 had a card in it that passed the backplane signals to the iv > 90 - i don't know why they used this "dual cpu" confg. Check out this picture: http://siconic.com/computers/fps/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Mini-Computer.jpg On the left is the CPU cabinet. The top is the IV/90 CPU (presumably). The section below contains more boards. I haven't looked at it so long that I forgot exactly what's in there. On the right is the tape drive (top). I forget what is directly below it (the aluminum thing). Below that is (I believe) the communication interface. I'll have to give a look at it this week to refresh my memory. I'm closer to being able to access it again because of the move. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Mar 1 23:58:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: ASR-32 Usable as Terminal? References: <8414128595.20030301223258@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <0ec001c2e080$3b25bd80$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: "ClassicCmp Lists" Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: ASR-32 Usable as Terminal? > I just realized, *after* bidding, that this TTY on eBay is a 32, not a 33. > Oops. Since it uses baudot code instead of ASCII and has a rotary dialer on > its CCU, is it useless as a terminal for a PDP-11? What would be required to > make it useful for a terminal? > > I'm thinking that I should cancel my bid. I want a TTY solely to have a > period terminal for my PDP-11/20. :-/ > > Yes, I have read the following in the "vital poop" thread: > > > Before you spend big bucks on ebay > > ---------------------------------- > > A Model 33 has a four-row keyboard (not including the space bar). > > A Model 32 has a three-row keyboard (not including the space bar). > > The 33 is ascii, and the 32 is baudot. > > You cannot (prctically) modify a 32 into a 33. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp One suggestion is to put a PIC between the system and the 33. Let it translate the baudot to and from ASCII. We made a "driver" to do this very thing many years ago when using a model 28 with an Apple II and it worked fine as a printer. VERY NOISY - so bad we wrapped to mattress from a camp cot around the thing to try and muffle it. Since I already had the model 28 it was a cheap solution. Stuart Johnson From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Mar 2 00:07:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system References: <20030302041206.19815.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c2e081$078d50e0$0400fea9@game> I'll have to try dropping my 386/40 down to 8mhz and run an old game. Which games did you have problems with? When I got my first pc it was a 286/12 by then all the games were VGA. I find the amiga/c64 had much nicer graphics during the cga pc games era. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Allen Jr" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 11:12 PM Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system > Very interesting reading, > > I also have a few 8088 games the will not run on > todays machines,mostly due the the hardcoded timeing > loops. > > one would think that by now someone would write a cpu > slowdown pgm that does not affect the hardcoded > graphics code - like all the current ones do. > > i have most of the ge numalogic "pc loader" for the > pc900 - pc1100 and the pc based programer for ge > series 6 model 60 plc's. > > i also have to use a 486 and lower on the plc and > motorola radio programming software. > > the reason that these programs will not run on a > faster then 486 (some only run releably on a 286) > is that the cpu speed runs the coded loops too fast. > > that results in the pgm trying to read/write to the > device (radio or plc) faster then the programs i/o > instructions can respond. > > i have had no trouble useing high speed serial ports > with the newer uart's. > > the slowdown programs "time wasting cpu loop" does > slow down the program run, but the loop chops up the > i/o also and the devices always want 100% of the i/o > ports attenation - which results in the i/o loop being > droped and/or the program hanging or looping. > > the problem could be a good one though, at least we do > have a use for the 8088's to 486's ;) > > > Bill > > > Message: 30 > From: "TeoZ" > To: > Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system... > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:00:32 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Those packages have the same problems as older dos > games. > > http://www.oldskool.org/pc/help/oldonnew/ > > "The second advantage is a natural resistance to > obscure programming > techniques, like self-modifying code. The 80386 > doesn't have an > internal > cache like the 486 and higher, so most self-modifying > code works as > good as > it did on the original 8088." > > I found alot of install routines written when the 386 > was around would > cause > errors on faster machines because they hard coded > timer loops for user > input. > > Since the PLC software uses the comm ports and they > are most likely > buffered > newer computers feed the data too fast for the serial > port. > > One thing to try on faster machines is to disable > internal and external > cache in the system bios, then hit the turbo button to > slow the > processor > down to 8mhz (if possible) > > If you really need a 386 motherboards with chip and > memory can be found > on > ebay really cheap, but are not too common. Buying an > old 386 from ebay > isn't > worth it because of the shipping costs of the heavy > boat anchors, but > motherboards are cheap. Getting a case from a local > thrift store to run > it > in wouldn't be too expensive. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Rice" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 6:42 AM > Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system... > > > > When I was working in process controls, we had PLC > programming > software > > from two different companies that would only run on > certain > processors. > > The original SLC-500 series software from > Allen-Bradley would not run > on > > a 486, but would scream on a 286 or 386. As soon as > you tried to run > it > > on a 486 or higher, instant crash, taking DOS > totally down to the > point > > only pushing the reset would reboot it. The PLC-2 > series from ICOM > > would run on 8088-Pentiums, but faster than a 286 > and the comm port > > control routines refused to communicate with the > system making it > > totally useless. There was a MMI package we used, > the names elludes > me > > (it's early) that wouldn't run if installed on a > hard drive over > 240mb. > > It had a space checking routine that couldn't handle > hard drives over > > 240mb, or a processor over a 486DX25. It would > crash if either the > > drive was too large or if the system was too fast. > All of this > software > > was still current in 1994-98. > > > > As far as finding an older system, except for the > 386 that is kind of > a > > museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a > couple of months > ago. From cb at mythtech.net Sun Mar 2 00:20:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: DEC Server 300 Message-ID: >A DECserver 300 is about 19"x12"x4.5", weighs 10-15 lbs (guessing), and has >16 MMJ's (modified modular jack), an AUI (thickwire Ethernet), and a >10Base5 (coax Ethernet) connection on the rear. Mine has a "tabletop" >plastic shell on it with rubber feet under it, although many of these were >sold without the case and were rack mounted. My unit has a beige-ish plastic >shell over a gray metal box. Units without the plastic shell with be gray >and "gold" alodyne finished" aluminum. Ok, then I'm pretty sure it isn't in the dumpster. Something of this size/appearance would have caught my eye. If it had been along the lines of a PC desktop or tower case, I could see that I might have over looked it, but anything rack mount I think I would have noticed. But I think I may take another swing by tomorrow during the day. The place should be closed since Paramus has annoying Blue Laws and nothing is allowed to be open on a Sunday. So that should give me some daylight and peace to dig some more. >Please PLEASE keep the book - I am sure someone will want it as they are >MUCH harder to locate than the device itself! I would ask for it but I >already have both the DECserver and a manual. I don't think it is a complete manual. There are two, both still shrinkwrapped, but they are more like a booklet then a manual. Pretty small. I don't recall what exactly they said on them. I plan to sort thru the stuff Monday. There may be other manuals that I missed. There is TONS of junk paperwork in the dumpster, so locating manuals would be a chore. If it doesn't pretty much land in your hand, it is unlikely to be spotted. There is one person on the list who has right of first refusal on the DEC stuff. Once he has taken what he wants, if there is anything left, I'll offer it up to the list. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Sun Mar 2 00:23:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Dumpster Diving Goodies Message-ID: > The key taped on top lets the VAX be switched from the VT to the >modem, thus allowing DEC access to the computer. What color is the key? Kind of grey. It looks like a tube lock type key, but there is nothing in the center. So the whole key seems to just be the one little pin sticking out from it. Obviously not meant for security, but more to prevent accidental turning of the "lock". And it came untaped from the top in transport, so now the key is loose in a box with all the cables. I didn't notice anything I grabbed that looked like it could use the key. -chris From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sun Mar 2 00:31:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:30:38 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter In-Reply-To: <200302271257.HAA25635@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <001101c2e084$baa3d840$4d4d2c0a@atx> > I just got a Calcomp 563 incremental plotter. Does anybody > have a manual > that I could get a copy of or at least know the pinout of the > connector and > what the mate is (round multipin). I did have one of these many years ago that I interfaced to a homebrew 6809 system ... but I think all the documentation went to whoever bought the plotter from me. > Also does anybody know where I can > get supplies such at the 30" sprocket feed paper rolls (still doing a web > search but only found 36" so far) and the pen. The pen looks like a short > ballpoint cartridge so hopefully I can cut a normal one down if I can't > find an identical one. I do still have a box of the paper and possibly some pens. However, the paper is here in the UK and very heavy so shipping to to USA is likely to be very high ... and if I can still find the pens they will be over 20 years old and thus likely to have dried up. I can look if you want. Andy From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Sun Mar 2 02:00:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:58 2005 Subject: Just for the sake of asking... (was - RE: Trivia Question) Message-ID: Gee! You musta worked at the same place, or one very like it. :) Ever seen any of those old parts floating around? Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 2:09 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Just for the sake of asking... (was - RE: Trivia Question) Edward Tillman writes: > It that a "real computer?" Of course it was! But they didn't so much have light pens as "light guns", right? And I can't think of too many other computers that had ashtrays built into the consoles. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Mar 2 03:02:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: References: <6418DE00-4B5B-11D7-B0AF-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030302084854.00bc69a8@slave> At 00:48 01/03/2003, Witchy wrote: >I'm on it - I'm maybe 2 hours away from there so I can pick up, assuming a) >I can get it in the garage and b) my girlfriend doesn't kill me :) Top chap - I'd pretty well decided it was too far away for me to realistically collect, seeing as how I don't have an estate car or similar. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Mar 2 04:42:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: References: <20030301173903.GA852@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030302102636.GA2424@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 06:55:13PM -0500, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > The VAX/DEC 7000 is definitely Laserbus. OK. Seams that I had the DEC 4000 in mind... > I have one of them here. I don't really > feel the need to try two big projects at once, but if someone > has a suggestion as to how I can make the machine available for use to > someone else, I'd be willing. You don't need that many machines. Don't be so egoistic, part with others. Ship this to me at your costs. ;-) -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Mar 2 07:45:01 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Ebay - Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL) Message-ID: <000001c2e0c1$580619e0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> This is pretty neat.A Plato terminal. I never knew a on-line community existed before Lee Feldstein's Community Memory project.In hindsight it looks like he was trying to copy Plato. A Description: Welcome to PLATO. The PLATO system, started way back in 1960, was developed as a technological solution to delivering individualized instruction, in thousands of subjects from algebra to zoology, to students in schools and universities across the nation. As the system grew and evolved, it became, pretty much by accident, the first major online community, in the current sense of the term. In the early 1970s, people lucky enough to be exposed to the system discovered it offered a radically new way of understanding what computers could be used for: computers weren't just about number-crunching (and delivering individualized instruction), they were about people connecting with people. For many PLATO people who came across PLATO in the 1970s, this was a mind-blowing concept http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=3404078052&category=4193 From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Mar 2 08:58:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Dumpster Diving Goodies References: Message-ID: <009001c2e0cb$ea03dda0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:19 AM Subject: Re: Dumpster Diving Goodies > > The key taped on top lets the VAX be switched from the VT to the > >modem, thus allowing DEC access to the computer. What color is the key? > > Kind of grey. It looks like a tube lock type key, but there is nothing in > the center. So the whole key seems to just be the one little pin sticking > out from it. Obviously not meant for security, but more to prevent > accidental turning of the "lock". Says `Anti-static' on it? That's what I got with my VAX 6320 to turn it on. It also fits in the remote console box, although it might not be the Official DEC Part to Turn The Switch. Then again, maybe it is. > > And it came untaped from the top in transport, so now the key is loose in > a box with all the cables. I didn't notice anything I grabbed that looked > like it could use the key. It'll also fit some/all of the pedestal-VAXen, like the BA440. You'd know if one of those was in the box... > > -chris Bob From gil at vauxelectronics.com Sun Mar 2 09:02:01 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: ASR-32 Usable as Terminal? Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030302080259.008b7100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Jeffrey: I made a board a couple of years ago that provided a current loop interface and a pic for ascii/baudot and speed conversion. I am in the process of a second-gen of that board. It will let you use a baudot machine to interface to a 232 port in ascii. If you get the 32, let me know; but don't pay too much. On the plus side, even if you don't want the 32 down the road, you can find a 33 in ratty cosmetic condition and swap the guts, since the 32 looks like it has a case and stand in very good condition (not easy to find good cosmetics). gil >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:32:58 -0600 >From: >To: ClassicCmp Lists >Subject: ASR-32 Usable as Terminal? >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3010656618 > >I just realized, *after* bidding, that this TTY on eBay is a 32, not a 33. >Oops. Since it uses baudot code instead of ASCII and has a rotary dialer on >its CCU, is it useless as a terminal for a PDP-11? What would be required to >make it useful for a terminal? > >I'm thinking that I should cancel my bid. I want a TTY solely to have a >period terminal for my PDP-11/20. :-/ > >Yes, I have read the following in the "vital poop" thread: > >> Before you spend big bucks on ebay >> ---------------------------------- >> A Model 33 has a four-row keyboard (not including the space bar). >> A Model 32 has a three-row keyboard (not including the space bar). >> The 33 is ascii, and the 32 is baudot. >> You cannot (prctically) modify a 32 into a 33. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Mar 2 09:10:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Sellam on TeeVee Message-ID: <200303021507.KAA3027689@shell.TheWorld.com> >Thanks! It was fun as always. Expect more similar segments in the >future. Could you let us know in the future when you will be on? I still haven't caught your most recent appearance... (If you did let people know, then I guess I missed it). Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Mar 2 09:12:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: RX02 faceplate Message-ID: <200303021508.KAA3005673@shell.TheWorld.com> Someone recently asked about an RX02 faceplate... if that person is still looking, please contact me... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 2 09:54:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Dumpster Diving Goodies References: Message-ID: <002501c2e0d3$68627740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Kind of grey. It looks like a tube lock type key These are used on MicroVAXIII's at least. One of those is white and about 1.5' x 2.5' x 2.5'. "Locking" one meant hiding the switches, tape transport, and access door latch, in turn hiding the cable connects. John A. From pzachary at sasquatch.com Sun Mar 2 09:58:01 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 References: Message-ID: <3E6229FE.D48BF317@sasquatch.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > The on-cpu SLU was so bad it was amazing! Every revision of the > > Apart from the rediculous RC clock (!), what else was wrong with it? > > -tony Isn't the clock enough?!? many of the problems came from the clock, directly or indirectly; If you send certian character combinations it "breaks" and I forget what else, ISTR they listed various terminals and what conditions didn't work... I can dig up the fiche if it really matters to you. I just spent some time with it when I got my 11/05 to decide wheather to build a replacement flip-chip for the cable or disable it and use a SPC. Pavl_ From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Mar 2 09:59:37 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c2e0d4$14d86610$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Is there any difference between Laserbus and Turbolaser other > than clock rate? The AS8200/8400 are supported under NetBSD. > Would it be possible to leveredge any of that work for 7000 support? Some time ago the AS8x00 manuals were up on the COMPAQ website, but right now I cannot find them. (Alpha tech manuals always seemed much more available than the corresponding VAX and PDP manuals). I don't think I have anythong that describes TLSB in any detail, but if all that changed was the clock frequency, I wouldn't have expected the name to change. OTOH, if you have a VAX or DEC 7000, see what happens if you assume (LSB == TLSB) ... (I didn't realise that NetBSD knew how to run on the bigger Alpha systems, but I've not really kept track as I don't have one!) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Mar 2 10:02:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Ebay - Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL) In-Reply-To: <000001c2e0c1$580619e0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <000201c2e0d4$d4b58670$0100a8c0@benchbox> Back in the 80's, one of my roommates turned me on to Plato. We went downtown to get the terminal cartridge for the Atari 8-bit. We were short of money and Fred ended up pawning his watch to cover the cart. It was a pretty cool system. Regards, jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:41 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Ebay - Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL) This is pretty neat.A Plato terminal. I never knew a on-line community existed before Lee Feldstein's Community Memory project.In hindsight it looks like he was trying to copy Plato. A Description: Welcome to PLATO. The PLATO system, started way back in 1960, was developed as a technological solution to delivering individualized instruction, in thousands of subjects from algebra to zoology, to students in schools and universities across the nation. As the system grew and evolved, it became, pretty much by accident, the first major online community, in the current sense of the term. In the early 1970s, people lucky enough to be exposed to the system discovered it offered a radically new way of understanding what computers could be used for: computers weren't just about number-crunching (and delivering individualized instruction), they were about people connecting with people. For many PLATO people who came across PLATO in the 1970s, this was a mind-blowing concept http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=3404078052&category=4193 From Technoid at 30below.com Sun Mar 2 10:04:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Viewtron In-Reply-To: <002501c2e0d3$68627740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000301c2e0d5$13eefb00$0100a8c0@benchbox> The other day I saw a guy wearing a really ragged Viewtron T-shirt. Remember this system? You bought a little chicklet console with a 300baud modem built in. Used your TV as a monitor. A bit before its time... Regards, Jeff From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Mar 2 10:21:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Question In-Reply-To: <20030302062000.31115.38640.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030302161814.17052.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> > From: Kevin Monceaux > > The thread has inspired me to pull my Model IV out > of the closet and fire it up. Still works great. > Some of the keys on the keyboard are a bit > stubborn. Anyone have any tips for negotiating > with the Model IV keyboard. I've never tried > taking it apart. > > Kevin It's an epidemic!!! *Grin!* I can't say for sure this will work, but what I used to do on Model I keyboards is to pop the tops off the keyboard, blast them with a little compressed air, and then a little bit of TV Tuner Cleaner. IF, the Model IV keyboard is one you can do that with. If this keyboard has sealed keys, and you can't see the contacts, you might just have dust and crud under the keys. Again, popping the keys and hitting them with a little bit of alcohol should help that. Check whatever cleaning solution you use to make sure it doesn't eat plastic. Good luck, and enjoy!!!! Regards, Al From cb at mythtech.net Sun Mar 2 11:35:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Dumpster Diving Goodies Message-ID: >Says `Anti-static' on it? Yup -chris From patrick at evocative.com Sun Mar 2 11:51:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e05b$b0ed9080$272a1941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: > Do they have an inventory sheet? I just went there yesterday and bought a few items. Almost everything I bought had its price determined in real time, shall we say. It strikes me that, if inventory for the As-Is Room is done at all (which I doubt), it's done by biological processes on a per-employee basis. Patrick From grg2 at attbi.com Sun Mar 2 12:16:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (George R. Gonzalez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: PLATO terminal on eBay Message-ID: <000f01c2e0e7$69fcaf30$05a8a8c0@grgcptr> Er, Um, well, it's at least partially true that it's a PLATO terminal. It looks like a CDC 7xx "Viking" terminal. IIRC it was your basic serial RS-232 ASCII terminal, with some escape codes that could put it into "PLATO" mode, which had its own proprietary character and graphics command codes. At least some of these had what many think is the worst keyboard ever designed, with very heavy springs plus lots of friction on every key and no click orfeedback whether you'd pressed the key far enough to register. Felt like you were pressing onto cookie dough. Not much you can do with the PLATO aspects of the terminal, unless you get a CDC Cyber simulator going, plus a PLATO binary, plus a multiplexer emulator... Regards, George From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 2 12:21:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: WD1002s-shd Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030302132405.57b73f84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this a few days ago. I think it's a SASI to ST-412 bridge board. Does anyone have more information on it? It has a 50 pin ribbaon cable header on one end. The other end has a 34 pin card edge connector, nearby are two 20 pn ribbon cable headers and a 4 pin molex power cable connector. Anyone have a manual for it? Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Mar 2 12:39:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: WD1002s-shd In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030302132405.57b73f84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030302132405.57b73f84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <32814.64.169.63.74.1046630132.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe wrote: > Found this a few days ago. I think it's a SASI to ST-412 bridge board. No, not SASI. The host interface was of WD's own devising. It has eight data lines, three address lines, select, read and write strobes, an interrupt and a data transfer request. There's an eight-register "task file", containing registers to select the drive, cylinder, head, and sector, issue commands, read status, and transfer data. Various small computers from the early to mid 1980s used controllers from this family. For instance, the hard disk subsystems from Radio Shack for the TRS-80. The WD1010 and WD2010 were basically an (almost) single-chip version of the WD100x board. The ATA (IDE) host interface is a direct descendent of this, although not 100% compatible. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Mar 2 13:17:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: DEC GIGAswitch on epay (Irvine, CA)... Message-ID: <001c01c2e0f0$10534260$7d00a8c0@george> Saw this on another list I'm subbed to... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403896676&category=3706 >Operational DEC GIGAswitch/FDDI Loaded with line cards and operational >Several MIC Fddi Cables Also > >DEC GIGAswitch/ATM > with a buy-it-now of $0.01(US). The catch: >You have to Arrange Shipping....... and pay for it... > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 2 13:26:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system In-Reply-To: <000801c2e081$078d50e0$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: But at a gigahertz or so, maybe even DONKEY.BAS mightbecome interesting From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 2 14:16:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Question In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Monceaux" at Feb 28, 3 04:54:33 pm Message-ID: > The thread has inspired me to pull my Model IV out of the closet and fire > it up. Still works great. Some of the keys on the keyboard are a bit > stubborn. Anyone have any tips for negotiating with the Model IV > keyboard. I've never tried taking it apart. It's a common problem, but the fix is long and tedious. You do have to dismantle the keyboard... First open the case -- one screw on the back, lots on the bottom, then with the machine in the normal operating position, lift the top case up, turn it counterclockwise and put it down alongside the machine. The monitor is in the cover -- take great care not to break the CRT neck. Then unplug the edge connector and ground wire (faston tab) from the monitor PCB so you can put the top cover out of the way. Remvove the keyboard bezel (half a dozen screws). 'Friendly' machines have the keyboard ribbon cable plugged into the keyboard PCB -- if so, unplug it there and remove the keyboard. Others have it soldered to the keyboard PCB. With those you have to remove the shielding and a cable clamp over the CPU board at the back, unplug the cable at that end, and feed it under the disk drives. OK, you've got the keyboard out. Pull off all the keycaps, including the reset button (make a diagram of the positions -- graph paper is good for this). Flip the keyboard over, and desolder (!) all the keyswitches, but not the reset button. Make sure all the pins are free. Undo the screws, and lift off the PCB. Unlcip all the keyswitches from the metal frame. Nowtest the keysswitches. Measure the resistance between the pins when the switch is prssed. A 'good' one is a few hundred ohms at most. Sort those out first. Take the 'bad' ones apart (the housing unclips, then there's a spring, plunger, rubber dome with a conductive rubber block inside). Clean the parts, particulalry the contacts inside the base, and the conductive rubber contact. Put them back together and test again. Any that test OK now are classed as 'possibly OK'. If you still have 'bad' ones, take them apart again, and rub a 6B pencil on the conductive rubber contact. That should get them working. But class these as 'marginal' Put the PCB back on the metal frame and screw it in place. Take the 'good' switches and put them in the most-used places on the keyboard. When I did this, I had enough 'good' ones to completely fill the alphanumeric area, leaving 'marginal' ones for the number pad (which is not essential). And then, as I jsut implied, put the 'possibly OK' ones in the slightly less-used parts, and the 'marginal' ones in places you can do without. Solder them all in place (this doesn't take that long!), fit the keycaps, reassemble the machine. -tony From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Mar 2 14:19:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) References: Message-ID: <001c01c2e0f8$24404c20$0400fea9@game> Were their prices reasonable? I have gone to equipment places in Ohio and some of the prices were nuts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Rigney" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Weirdstuff Warehouse (WAS:Re: Classic SF Bay Area places to visit) > > Do they have an inventory sheet? > > I just went there yesterday and bought a few items. Almost everything I > bought had its price determined in real time, shall we say. It strikes me > that, if inventory for the As-Is Room is done at all (which I doubt), it's > done by biological processes on a per-employee basis. > > Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 2 14:20:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Sellam on TeeVee In-Reply-To: <200303021507.KAA3027689@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Megan wrote: > Could you let us know in the future when you will be on? I still > haven't caught your most recent appearance... (If you did let > people know, then I guess I missed it). Sorry. It was a last minute sort of thing. We scheduled it on Wednesday and between all my work and trying to pack for the big move, I just didn't even think about it. I'll definitely give a heads up next time. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 2 14:37:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter In-Reply-To: <200303012357.SAA25630@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20030302203417.53373.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > >From: Ethan Dicks > > > >--- David Gesswein wrote: > >> I just got a Calcomp 563 incremental plotter. > > > >Is that powder blue, kind of an A-Frame design? I had to pass on one > >a few years ago because I could _not_ fit it into a full-sized cargo > >van - it was 2" too tall at the frame. Not a 536... The one I was trying to move was much larger. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 2 16:13:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system... In-Reply-To: <3E609C9E.3080403@charter.net> Message-ID: <20030302221000.84775.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- James Rice wrote: > As far as finding an older system, except for the 386 that is kind of a > museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago. Oy! I have *one*, count it, ONE, machine in my entire collection *over* 1GHz, only because the AMD chip was a throbbing $95 (it replaced an 800MHz chip). On my day-to-day ops, I spend most of my time on this P-133 laptop, and on a P-III 350. If people want to throw sub-GHz hardware away, I'll gladly take motherboards, CPUs and RAM. :-) I'd like to put together a 600MHz machine together for Daphne/MAME, but not enough to spend "real" money on it. As I've written about here before, I have a device programmer that does not like fast machines. I think part of it is that ISA speeds went from 8.00MHz to 8.33MHz when 386s and the like came onto the scene (to simplify the bus controller design). I have not done the experiment of taking a 486-25 and cranking everything down. It's been less effort to keep an 8-bit or 16-bit machine around. I suppose in the future, when _this_ box dies, I may have to resort to the slowest ISA machine I can find, and playing with BIOS settings, disabling internal and external cache, etc. -ethan From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 2 16:43:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Books & stuff that must go now References: <3E5FE077.5060209@bestweb.net> <003701c2e028$7e9b0f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001c01c2e10c$950cdae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I have a big pile of Computer & related books, plust > software, etc that need to be gotten rid of: > http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/ToGetRidOf.html Chapter 2: James didn't want to wait for me to sort things at his house so I now have the whole lot in my car. Some requests have been recieved (thank-you). The TRS stuff is still free. Here's two books on subjects covered recently: Epson HX-20 and Epson QX-10 There are alot of good college compsci books here for the interested, Also alot of intro BASIC guides from the 70's and 80's. Quite a few books on applications, let me look for your area of specialty, before... Send in your requests before I have to throw things. John A. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Mar 2 16:48:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: HP 2109B on eBay Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030302223546.019b1020@slave> Shocking, isn't it? I get a HP, and suddenly I'm looking all over eBay for them.... Anyway, see here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403922546&category=1247 Not sure if "jeffruss" (current high-bidder) is on this list or not. Anyhow, just a heads-up in case any of you were interested. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 2 16:54:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system... In-Reply-To: <20030302221000.84775.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E609C9E.3080403@charter.net> Message-ID: <20030302225031.GKLW194.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Oy! I have *one*, count it, ONE, machine in my entire collection > *over* 1GHz, only because the AMD chip was a throbbing $95 (it replaced > an 800MHz chip). On my day-to-day ops, I spend most of my time on this > P-133 laptop, and on a P-III 350. If people want to throw sub-GHz hardware > away, I'll gladly take motherboards, CPUs and RAM. :-) I'd like to > put together a 600MHz machine together for Daphne/MAME, but not enough > to spend "real" money on it. > > As I've written about here before, I have a device programmer that > does not like fast machines. I think part of it is that ISA speeds Snip! > ISA machine I can find, and playing with BIOS settings, disabling internal > and external cache, etc. > > -ethan Ethan & to others, I once ran into a lunch box b/w LCD portable that once had 286 in it (baby AT size, smug fit at that). I plugged in an 486 or pentium board in it and LCD controller (ISA only) spat out crap once cache is enabled and shadowing the video bios loads. With external & internal cache and shadowing disabled, things went great. Try that on yours. That lunchox was too much trouble and my intention was using it with pentium in it but that LCD controller was the problem spot so I ditched it. And I can't use my P75 either because of flickering pixels. It is not the panel itself it is somewhere else in the circuitry or display board. In meantime, informal search for good lunchbox continues. Cheers, Wizard From jim at smithy.com Sun Mar 2 17:38:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donaghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Wang OIS web pages Message-ID: <200303021834.AA417660978@smithy.com> I have put up a set of pages on the Wang OIS System. The OIS is a minicomputer system based on the Zilog Z80 processor. It was made from 1979 until around 1990. I also have an OIS emulator in development. Currently, it can run most of the OS utilities, program development, and Wang Word Processing. I have tested it with Red Hat Linux 7.2 and 7.3. The pages are located at http://www.cass.net/~jdonoghu From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 2 17:43:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Another variation on the Nigerian Oil SCAM! Remained Blessed in the lord! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030302184413.28b7bc9a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Calling all suckers! >Return-Path: >Received: from flmx03.mgw.rr.com ([65.32.1.49]) by flmta06.tampabay.rr.com > (InterMail vK.4.04.00.00 201-232-137 license 494d749f8683ebffb91c3cbeb628d4a6) > with ESMTP > id <20030302004709.CZFG18110.flmta06@flmx03.mgw.rr.com> > for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:47:09 -0500 >Received: from webmailmta.go.com ([199.181.134.24]) > by flmx03.mgw.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h220kqI7002125 > for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:47:07 -0500 (EST) >Received: from gomailjtp03 (jtp03.seamail.go.com [10.212.0.163]) > by mta07.seamail.go.com > (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2002.06.25.09.36.p9) with ESMTP id > <0HB200LAHH6RAR@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rigdonj@cfl.rr.com; Sat, > 1 Mar 2003 02:59:21 -0800 (PST) >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 02:59:14 -0800 (PST) >From: Deacon Benjamin Ewemie >Subject: Remained Blessed in the lord! >To: deaconben2@go.com >Message-id: <7228862.1046516354478.JavaMail.deaconben2@gomailjtp03> >MIME-version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > >Dear in Christ, > > I am in anticipation of your reply and I am standing on Malachi 3:10 where our Lord Jesus has decree that we should bring tithes and offering to his store house, he convinced us that he will open the windows of heavens and bless us most abudantly. I am a retired Director general of Ministry of aviation and transport and presently the managing director of Solomon consultancy firm and Solomon foundation Inc not until last two years I was practically in the world. Due largely to the counseling of my wife and by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ I confessed Jesus as my personal Lord and saviour and I became a member Redeemed pillar fire ministry and the man of God Pastor Ellias counseled me for deliverance which I did for a period of 30 days, for God said in Obadiah 1:17, that upon mountain Zion there will be deliverance, after which holiness and one can posses his possessions that already I have claimed as my portion. During my thanksgiving that proceedeth prayer session in my ministry, our Lord ministered to me concerning my funds in Europe to invest it in His work and I proceed to posses my possessions. I related with the Elders of my ministry and Pastors of my ministry to direct me. Five names and ministries were nominated and we all prayed for God?s divine confirmation which he did at the third/3rd day. Already all arrangements have been concluded with the security house in where they were deposited, for the direct payment of the funds $21.6 million us dollars to you. All you need do is to furnish me with your full names,address, Telephone & Fax numbers in order to appropriate the document with the central bank of Nigeria (C. B. N) clearing house in Europe for onward payment to you. Then I will be able to confirm to you Brother in Lord the code access number to contact the central Bank of Nigeria Clearing House for the fund.I thank God for his Grace upon my life and for making me to know our Lord Jesus Christ,Glory be to God.Be informed that this fund is strictly for the work of God and other investment that > >Remain Blessed > >Deacon Ben Ewemie. > >You can reply me here:deaconben1@latinmail.com > > >___________________________________________________ >GO.com Mail >Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 2 17:43:04 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: WD1002s-shd In-Reply-To: <32814.64.169.63.74.1046630132.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > References: <3.0.6.16.20030302132405.57b73f84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030302132405.57b73f84@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030302184555.0f3f65b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Erik. Any idea what it's good for? or what systems may use it? Joe At 10:35 AM 3/2/03 -0800, Erik wrote: >Joe wrote: >> Found this a few days ago. I think it's a SASI to ST-412 bridge board. > >No, not SASI. The host interface was of WD's own devising. It has eight >data lines, three address lines, select, read and write strobes, an >interrupt and a data transfer request. There's an eight-register "task >file", containing registers to select the drive, cylinder, head, and >sector, issue commands, read status, and transfer data. > >Various small computers from the early to mid 1980s used controllers from >this family. For instance, the hard disk subsystems from Radio Shack for >the TRS-80. > >The WD1010 and WD2010 were basically an (almost) single-chip version of >the WD100x board. > >The ATA (IDE) host interface is a direct descendent of this, although not >100% compatible. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Mar 2 19:05:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: making disk images Message-ID: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. Thanks Bob From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Mar 2 19:16:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. Uhm, do you mean hard drives? And on what type of machine? If they're SCSI or ATA (IDE), I'd recommend just throwing the drive onto some other machine, and using that machine to dd it off to a file or another raw drive. Or, you might want to just pull the drive and replace it with another one you feel safe blasting the data to /dev/null... Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 2 19:22:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. Hard drives are cheap. Go down to your local thrift store and buy an old PC that is still relatively new (i.e. has a decent-sized IDE hard drive) for $10-$20 and strip the hard drive from it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Mar 2 19:37:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Message-ID: <001201c2e124$89a8ab80$0400fea9@game> Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted something to tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no software for it at the moment. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 2 19:40:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs In-Reply-To: <001201c2e124$89a8ab80$0400fea9@game> from TeoZ at "Mar 2, 3 08:30:50 pm" Message-ID: <200303030147.RAA28490@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted something to > tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no software for > it at the moment. Why before 6.0? GS/OS 6 will work just fine on a 1MB IIgs (I've done it). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives can't cure. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Mar 2 19:50:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: making disk images References: Message-ID: <007801c2e126$f47e25f0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:17 PM Subject: Re: making disk images > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > Uhm, do you mean hard drives? And on what type of machine? If they're > SCSI or ATA (IDE), I'd recommend just throwing the drive onto some other > machine, and using that machine to dd it off to a file or another raw > drive. Well, mostly IDE, but the occasional DBA or SCSI machine. I suppose I could pull the drive, but that'd entail firing up another peasea to slurp it off with. I figure it's easier to pop in some ne2k clone, and I already have a good number of GB spinning in other machines where IDE/EIDE/ATA is not an option. > > Or, you might want to just pull the drive and replace it with another one > you feel safe blasting the data to /dev/null... Haven't found a cheap, local supply of smaller drives yet. That, and I'm a software packrat-- I just can't bring myself to delete it, no matter how old or crufty it is. > > Pat Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Mar 2 19:50:09 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: making disk images References: Message-ID: <007901c2e126$f5382720$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:13 PM Subject: Re: making disk images > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > > Hard drives are cheap. Go down to your local thrift store and buy an old > PC that is still relatively new (i.e. has a decent-sized IDE hard drive) > for $10-$20 and strip the hard drive from it. Errr, here in O-hi-a the XT clones start at about $50 and go up from there, more if it has options like a keyboard or monitor. All those d@mn pig farmers driving up the prices. In any case, most/all of the achines were freebies so I don't want to spend too much on 'em. Also, what if the parts box I picked up had a workign install on it? I'd need to get a parts box to strip to strip the parts box... Everyone's got a deep, dark secret. At least I don't have to hide in my basement with mine. Um. Well. Ok, but the point is that I don't *have* to, I'm just there because that's where the computers are. ^_^ > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Bob From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Mar 2 20:08:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <000101c2e128$fcfa51c0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> What about Norton Ghost? It runs under DOS, doesn't require Windows. Can even back up over make an image over a network or printer port to another computer. And there is an image file browser that's a Windows App, don't think there's a DOS-based broweser (but it can browse the images made by the DOS Ghost program). - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Robert F. Schaefer Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:47 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: making disk images Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. Thanks Bob From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Mar 2 20:30:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs References: <200303030147.RAA28490@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3E62BD68.8040701@eoni.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted something to >>tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no software for >>it at the moment. > > > Why before 6.0? GS/OS 6 will work just fine on a 1MB IIgs (I've done it). > I have the 6.0.1 images if you need. Jim -- If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb ~ From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Mar 2 20:33:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs References: <200303030147.RAA28490@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002101c2e12c$4d40d3e0$0400fea9@game> Well on older machines I have never used before I like trying out older OS's and then as my interest in the machine grows I upgrade to newer OS. Gives you a better apreciation for the hardware and its origins. Do you have any of the older images? 6.0 is available from apples website I believe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:47 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIgs > > Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted something to > > tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no software for > > it at the moment. > > Why before 6.0? GS/OS 6 will work just fine on a 1MB IIgs (I've done it). > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives can't cure. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Mar 2 20:39:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs In-Reply-To: <200303030147.RAA28490@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I have the actual floppies for the IIgs System Software Update 4.0, but I don't know if this is a full, useable system, or just an update, I have never used them, seeming as though Apple has System 6.0.1 for free download on their FTP. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Sunday, March 2, 2003, at 08:47 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted >> something to >> tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no >> software for >> it at the moment. > > Why before 6.0? GS/OS 6 will work just fine on a 1MB IIgs (I've done > it). > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives > can't cure. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Mar 2 20:52:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:35:59 2005 Subject: making disk images References: <000101c2e128$fcfa51c0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <000601c2e12f$a7445120$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: RE: making disk images > What about Norton Ghost? It runs under DOS, doesn't require Windows. Can > even back up over make an image over a network or printer port to > another computer. And there is an image file browser that's a Windows > App, don't think there's a DOS-based broweser (but it can browse the > images made by the DOS Ghost program). I'll look at it. I had envisioned something with an IP stack that spoke NFS, to make things easier on the far end, but a package that does most of what I want is somewhat more desirable (ATM) than building something myself. I just can't seem to find all that spare time I had stashed away when I was younger! > > - Bob Bob From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Mar 2 21:11:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. You might want to check out partimage... which is based on Linux: http://www.partimage.org/ I've also got a few spare Seagate ST15150 4.3GB narrow SCSI drives, that I could probably part with for $10 incl shipping to Ohio. If you're interested, mail me off-list. I can also small IDE drives nearly free from Purdue Salvage and Surplus... I can collect a few for you if interested (probably 200MB-1GB, $2ea+shipping) Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Mar 2 21:49:00 2003 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL)...plato memories.... References: <000001c2e0c1$580619e0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <002401c2e137$6d2b2470$c700a8c0@Laptop> My 2 cents.... Plato was 20 years ahead of its time. I was one of the lucky ones that could take my bike or moped when I was 14-15 and ride for 10 minutes and could access a terminal and had unlimted access time....I wrote a few games...I dont have anything from those days, sadly...no tapes, no listings... Almost every afternoon this guy in a GM plant in Oshawa Ontario Canada would TEL-TALK (IIRC?) me and we would play dogfight for a hour or so....he was writing automobile-building robot animations or something....slow...still neet... I miss those days...I wish I could see some screen shots again.... Later all... Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandra Bajpai" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: Ebay - Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL) > This is pretty neat.A Plato terminal. I never knew a on-line community > existed before Lee Feldstein's Community Memory project.In hindsight it > looks like he was trying to copy Plato. > > A Description: > Welcome to PLATO. > > The PLATO system, started way back in 1960, was developed as a > technological solution to delivering individualized instruction, in > thousands of subjects from algebra to zoology, to students in schools > and universities across the nation. As the system grew and evolved, it > became, pretty much by accident, the first major online community, in > the current sense of the term. In the early 1970s, people lucky enough > to be exposed to the system discovered it offered a radically new way of > understanding what computers could be used for: computers weren't just > about number-crunching (and delivering individualized instruction), they > were about people connecting with people. For many PLATO people who came > across PLATO in the 1970s, this was a mind-blowing concept > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > 4193> &item=3404078052&category=4193 From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sun Mar 2 21:54:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Free Dynalogic Message-ID: <5F9E819A-4D2B-11D7-9352-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Hi All, I have a free dynalogic KDM-900 to a good home. Just pay shipping and it's yours. It was part of my dynalogic system. This is the only part I have left and I hate tossing. If you want to see it , please go to: http://idisk.mac.com/colourfull_creations/Public/ads/kdm.jpg Thanks Rob From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Mar 2 22:31:00 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Wang OIS web pages In-Reply-To: <200303021834.AA417660978@smithy.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030302201815.01e03da0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 06:34 PM 3/2/03 -0500, you wrote: >I have put up a set of pages on the Wang OIS System. The OIS is a >minicomputer system based on the Zilog Z80 processor. It was made from >1979 until around 1990. I also have an OIS emulator in development. >Currently, it can run most of the OS utilities, program development, and >Wang Word Processing. I have tested it with Red Hat Linux 7.2 and 7.3. >The pages are located at http://www.cass.net/~jdonoghu That is excellent, Jim! Is there any chance of talking you to convert your emulator to use wxWindows ( http://www.wxwindows.org )? It is a cross-platform GUI and system toolkit. It is quite well done, and would allow running your emulator on a much larger range of platforms (PC, linux/unix, Mac, OS/2, ...) It is rather well done, has a very active developer community, and uses the native look & feel of the targeted GUI (it will look like a GTK app if that is what you link to, or a Motif app, or Win32, or XP, OS X, etc.) I look forward to further developments on your web site. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Mar 2 22:38:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images References: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3E62DB74.48529A8D@compsys.to> >"Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. Jerome Fine replies: As Bob Lefleur also suggested, I recommend at least Norton Ghost V7.0, although V6.5 is not bad. If you are using a Windows compatible file structure, then Ghost Explorer works with Ghost images in the same manner as Windows Explorer - although it has a few drawbacks, the least of which is that when Ghost images are combined, don't expect all the date information from the file to be preserved. On the other hand, if the complete compressed Ghost image is less than the capacity of one CD-R, you can save it for long term archival storage with ease. And with a bit less ease if the compressed Ghost image will be larger since Ghost has the option to "-split=650" which produces as many files of 650 MBytes are are needed. I have been using Ghost V7.0 for almost a year with the option "-FCR=FileName" that creates a CRC file at the same time which allows the user to verify that the backup has been done correctly BEFORE the original source image is destroyed when the source image has a Windows/DOS file structure. Ghost V7.0 also compresses on the fly at about 2 to 1 without a great deal of extra time. On my system, I can do a backup in about 6 minutes of an EIDE drive which holds about 2.2 GBytes of files and produces a compressed image of about 950 MBytes. The recovery takes about 3 minutes. This is on a 750 MHz Pentium III although there is an UDMA 100 EIDE controller with a throughput of about 30 MBytes per second or about 2 GBytes per minute. Note that although the documentation requires that Ghost V7.0 be run under DOS, I have run it under Windows 98 SE as long as the source device is NOT the C: drive. If the C: drive is being backed up or restored, then I always BOOT first from the A: floppy. Also, in this case, my UDMA 100 EIDE controller is NOT compatible with a CDROM drive when Ghost V7.0 is running, so I always copy any files that were on a CDROM to a D: or E: drive while the CDROM device driver is active, then BOOT again without CDROM support and run Ghost V7.0 with only the C:, D:, and E: drives active. For drives with any file structure, Ghost V7.0 can make an exact copy of the drive and restore every block in the exact same location. With SCSI drives or drives where the controller does the bad block mapping, this allows the image to be restored on the same size or larger drive. When the bad blocks are handled by the OS, then the restore must be done on the identical drive if you did not start with a Windows/DOS file structure. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Mar 2 22:56:01 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images Message-ID: <189.162cd3d3.2b94398d@aol.com> In a message dated 3/2/2003 11:36:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhfinepw4z@compsys.to writes: > For drives with any file structure, Ghost V7.0 can make an exact > copy of the drive and restore every block in the exact same location. > With SCSI drives or drives where the controller does the bad block > mapping, this allows the image to be restored on the same size or > larger drive. When the bad blocks are handled by the OS, then > the restore must be done on the identical drive if you did not start > with a Windows/DOS file structure. > > Sincerely yours, > This is probably true for only FATxx,and NTFS partitions though. I don't think HPFS is supported anymore, unfortunately. I know on earlier versions, the image source and target must be the same size. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Mar 2 23:59:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. Tom's Root/Boot Disk http://www.toms.net/rb Doc From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Mar 3 00:21:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images Message-ID: Use Norton/Symantec's "Ghost." It practically copies anything to disk and back again. Once you've ghosted it to disk, its browsable under Windoze, and, as long as you don't change ANYTHING using any Windoze utilities, you should be able to Ghost it back to a working drive for your lagacy system. Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA -----Original Message----- From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 11:56 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: making disk images On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. Tom's Root/Boot Disk http://www.toms.net/rb Doc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 3 02:05:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images References: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <000f01c2e15b$7e5d1c20$0100000a@milkyway> Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea > hardware? [snip] > I was > wondering if anyone else had a solution. Norton Ghost in Ghostcast network mode. Oh, and a copy of Ghostcast Server. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From cbajpai at attbi.com Mon Mar 3 06:09:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL)...plato memories.... In-Reply-To: <002401c2e137$6d2b2470$c700a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <000501c2e17d$2437e640$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> What sort of end user programming language did Plato use? What did you need to access the system...could anyone off the street use it for free? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Claude.W Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 10:46 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL)...plato memories.... My 2 cents.... Plato was 20 years ahead of its time. I was one of the lucky ones that could take my bike or moped when I was 14-15 and ride for 10 minutes and could access a terminal and had unlimted access time....I wrote a few games...I dont have anything from those days, sadly...no tapes, no listings... Almost every afternoon this guy in a GM plant in Oshawa Ontario Canada would TEL-TALK (IIRC?) me and we would play dogfight for a hour or so....he was writing automobile-building robot animations or something....slow...still neet... I miss those days...I wish I could see some screen shots again.... Later all... Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandra Bajpai" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: Ebay - Neat PLATO system (AOL before AOL) > This is pretty neat.A Plato terminal. I never knew a on-line community > existed before Lee Feldstein's Community Memory project.In hindsight it > looks like he was trying to copy Plato. > > A Description: > Welcome to PLATO. > > The PLATO system, started way back in 1960, was developed as a > technological solution to delivering individualized instruction, in > thousands of subjects from algebra to zoology, to students in schools > and universities across the nation. As the system grew and evolved, it > became, pretty much by accident, the first major online community, in > the current sense of the term. In the early 1970s, people lucky enough > to be exposed to the system discovered it offered a radically new way of > understanding what computers could be used for: computers weren't just > about number-crunching (and delivering individualized instruction), they > were about people connecting with people. For many PLATO people who came > across PLATO in the 1970s, this was a mind-blowing concept > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > 4193> &item=3404078052&category=4193 From jim at smithy.com Mon Mar 3 07:06:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donaghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Wang OIS web pages Message-ID: <200303030803.AA23265440@smithy.com> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Jim Battle Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 20:27:27 -0800 >At 06:34 PM 3/2/03 -0500, you wrote: >>I have put up a set of pages on the Wang OIS System.Currently, it can run most of the OS utilities, program development, and >>Wang Word Processing. I have tested it with Red Hat Linux 7.2 and 7.3. >>The pages are located at http://www.cass.net/~jdonoghu > >That is excellent, Jim! > >Is there any chance of talking you to convert your emulator to use >wxWindows ( http://www.wxwindows.org )? It is a cross-platform GUI and >system toolkit. It is quite well done, and would allow running your >emulator on a much larger range of platforms (PC, linux/unix, Mac, OS/2, >...) It is rather well done, has a very active developer community, and >uses the native look & feel of the targeted GUI (it will look like a GTK >app if that is what you link to, or a Motif app, or Win32, or XP, OS X, etc.) > I have considered this, but I've never done any Windows programming, and I'm using UNIX IPC to communicate between processes. The emulator consists of a Master process that represents the master CPU unit, and one or more Slave processes (each their own Z80 emulator) that represent the workstations. You can have up to four active Slave processes attached to the master (it gets slower the more slaves you run.). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 3 08:20:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: test Don't read. Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030303092226.4d1f8096@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Test. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Mar 3 08:21:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system... References: <20030302221000.84775.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E6364AC.974C16AB@comcast.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- James Rice wrote: > > As far as finding an older system, except for the 386 that is kind of a > > museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a couple of months ago. > > Oy! I have *one*, count it, ONE, machine in my entire collection > *over* 1GHz, only because the AMD chip was a throbbing $95 (it replaced > an 800MHz chip). On my day-to-day ops, I spend most of my time on this > P-133 laptop, and on a P-III 350. If people want to throw sub-GHz hardware > away, I'll gladly take motherboards, CPUs and RAM. :-) I'd like to > put together a 600MHz machine together for Daphne/MAME, but not enough > to spend "real" money on it. Replaced an 800MHz CPU? Was it a P-III? And does it still work? If so, I'll take it... I have 2 boards that can max out with an P-III 800 CPU. One is my main desktop, currently a P-III 500, and the other is currently not being used... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 3 08:23:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: CFV: NeXT Bible References: Message-ID: <002201c2e18f$d6b2a500$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Call For Votes: Sell the NeXT Bible? I was reading the 'NeXT Bible' before giving it over to someone and wanted to find the text of it online to clip and save. I didn't find the text, but I found somebodies' webpage where he was listing it for an unexpectedly large sum. Some research in other places showed it priced really high, esp. for a paperback. I thought that maybe letting this go for free is a mistake, that it may be a rare title. This is also about the single most requested item in the free books too BTW. So, am I a Rat Bastard if I withdraw this from the free list and try to sell it on my own or should I stick to the original offer and keep good will? I'll let the democracy speak on this one. Send your vote. Please respond off list. John A. From fauradon at frontiernet.net Mon Mar 3 09:26:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: test Don't read. References: <3.0.6.16.20030303092226.4d1f8096@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000e01c2e1a9$48b46620$0264640a@auradon.com> Too late I already read it... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: ; Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: test Don't read. > Test. From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Mar 3 11:37:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives In-Reply-To: <20030219182916.64040.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: Back in the VAX 11/725 days I used to have several such systems. All were quite reliable, evidently contrary to experience on the list. At 10:29 AM -0800 2/19/03, Ethan Dicks wrote: >You will not be able to spin it up without the removable cartridge. Is this strictly true? My very vague memory recalled that it was possible, though the removable door had to remain closed while the internal drive was spun up. I recently acquired one [and the controller] for my 11/73. I do have one and only one pack. This pack does have data that I would like to reacquire, therefore I am unwilling to put it in the drive until I have some way of proving the drive clean and functional. [Can't accept crashing the removable.] I have not been able to spin up the disk so far, thus lending evidence to Ethan's assertion above. John From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Mar 3 12:05:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? Message-ID: I looked around at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/ and found most of the hardware docs I would want for my 2113E and 2117F, but didn't really see any hardware reference docs for a 2100A CPU. I also didn't find any 2100A hardware docs at http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/ Anywhere else I should look for docs online? >I love these boxes, but then, I'm biased. Think most of the docs are up on >Al's website. If there's something you can't find feel free to drop me a >line. > >Jay West _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From swperk at earthlink.net Mon Mar 3 12:26:00 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Looking for parts for an HP 9821A desktop calculator In-Reply-To: <20030303180001.45247.81621.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hello, I recently acquired an old HP 9821A desktop calculator. It's in good shape cosmetically, but it has apparently had previously donated some of its internal cards to an unknown cause. Specifically, it seems to be missing three of the four CPU cards, and two of the three RAM cards. A quick search of some sources suggests that some or all of the CPU cards are identical to those in the 9810A and possibly the 9830A. I don't know about the RAM cards, though. Obviously, the CPU and RAM cards from a 9820A would be an exact replacement. Any help in getting this classic beast running again will be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Stan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 3 12:26:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: test Don't read. In-Reply-To: <000e01c2e1a9$48b46620$0264640a@auradon.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030303092226.4d1f8096@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030303132940.5137652a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Now I KNOW you guys don't read the subject lines! :-) Is it just me or has there been very little traffic on this list lately? I've only gotten about 20 messages in the last 2 1/2 days. Joe At 09:21 AM 3/3/03 -0800, you wrote: >Too late I already read it... > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: ; >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:22 AM >Subject: test Don't read. > > >> Test. From patrick at evocative.com Mon Mar 3 12:28:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter In-Reply-To: <200303012357.SAA25630@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: > That idea might work but making the loop will be some work. Haven't > had any luck on finding paper yet. You said 36" roll, right? California Surveying and Drafting Supply... many different types, here's some relatively "plain" paper: http://csdsinc.com/ocepresppr32.asp --Patrick From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 3 12:44:17 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228204301.00b9e730@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 28 February 2003 20:53 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England > > Seriously - if someone can lend me a suitable trailer, I'd be happy to > contact the chap & see if he'll hang onto it for a week or two > until I can > get up there (although S. Cumbria is a reasonable trek away). > Unfortunately, although I have two trailers (ahem), one is a S'OK - I'm off there tomorrow morning to pick it up and THEN worry about how I'm going to get it in the garage :) I just hope I can get both DECwriters (II and III) in too 'cos I'd hate to leave one of them behind. Hopefully they can be dismantled; it's been a while since I last worked on one.... > little piddly > thing (and open to the elements), and the other is a FO big car trailer > suffering two problems - 1) it's open to the elements, 2) it's got a car > with a broken wheel on it... I've been thinking about having a towbar fitted to my car since we can get a trailer in the garage but not a full-size car! The garage was built in 1910 and seems to be wide enough for an Austin 7 :) > I'd also be happy to keep it indefinitely pending someone else doing > something with it - I'd like to stick to one - or, perhaps, two :) - > projects at a time... Same here. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From fdebros at verizon.net Mon Mar 3 12:44:39 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer 150 ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA30@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <000001c2e0c4$29c76360$6401a8c0@fred> Hi Fred, Fred here again, Did u get any further in your search? I once had the manual to the infoserver 150, but lost it. All I know is that the pwd is ESS. I have a 150. yes the cpu is ka-42-a, so is it a VS3100, or an MV3100 ??? Because it should load netbsd according to netbsd vax. Mine has disks and floppies and cd. It has a b/w framebuffer on it. Let me know whatever dope u have on the infoserver so I can get mine running and shove it on my homenetwork. I have plenty experience with vs 3100 and actually some for sale. fred ----------------------- is anyone here familiar with installing and operating Info Servers? I got word that they are pretty much the same as a stripped-down MV3100, so installing the InfoServer CD on such a machine (equipped with CD drive) should get us the desired result... Pse contact me off-list if you can help, and I'll summarize here, later. Thx, Fred From sieler at allegro.com Mon Mar 3 12:44:43 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: HP 3000 922LX in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E62276A.7577.1AE1BCEB@localhost> Subject: HP 3000 922LX in Kansas City 2nd generation PA-RISC computer, roughly 10 MHz. It's got a lot of memory expansion capability, with slots in the front and rear of the machine. Won't run anything after MPE/iX 6.0, because it's HP-IB based. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From vance at neurotica.com Mon Mar 3 12:44:48 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <000601c2e0d4$14d86610$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Is there any difference between Laserbus and Turbolaser other than > > clock rate? The AS8200/8400 are supported under NetBSD. > > Would it be possible to leveredge any of that work for 7000 support? > > Some time ago the AS8x00 manuals were up on the COMPAQ website, but > right now I cannot find them. (Alpha tech manuals always seemed much > more available than the corresponding VAX and PDP manuals). I'll see if I can find it. I have the VAX7000 manual, but I don't have the AS8x00 manual. > I don't think I have anythong that describes TLSB in any detail, but if > all that changed was the clock frequency, I wouldn't have expected the > name to change. Hmm. > OTOH, if you have a VAX or DEC 7000, see what happens if you assume (LSB > == TLSB) ... (I didn't realise that NetBSD knew how to run on the bigger > Alpha systems, but I've not really kept track as I don't have one!) Well, I don't have TLSB hardware to experiment with, and I only have the VAX version, and it only runs VMS, so I don't really know how this experiment would go. Since I would doubt that any TLSB peripherals would have VAX drivers, how would I go about testing compatibility? PROM hardware tests? Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Mon Mar 3 12:44:52 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: What kind of disk are you talking about? I use a Minix boot for that sort of thing because it's quite fast, but it doesn't work with large images. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. > > Thanks > > Bob From root at parse.com Mon Mar 3 12:44:56 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules Message-ID: <200303031701.MAA04577@parse.com> Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, and am writing the control software for it (which will be available for free). I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it that they want to get rid of? I currently have the 2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. These things are pretty light. Thanks, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 3 12:46:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030303184305.53248.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "John A. Dundas III" wrote: > At 10:29 AM -0800 2/19/03, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >You will not be able to spin it up without the removable cartridge. > > Is this strictly true? That was my experience in 1987. I used that fact to get the vendor to ship me a (free) cartridge so I could spin up the drive and get the 11/725 working. -ethan From patrick at evocative.com Mon Mar 3 13:11:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Calcomp incremental plotter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Argghh... never mind... not sprocketed... :-/ > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Patrick Rigney > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:25 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Calcomp incremental plotter > > > > That idea might work but making the loop will be some work. Haven't > > had any luck on finding paper yet. > > You said 36" roll, right? California Surveying and Drafting Supply... many > different types, here's some relatively "plain" paper: > http://csdsinc.com/ocepresppr32.asp > > --Patrick From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 3 13:23:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <007901c2e126$f5382720$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > Hard drives are cheap. They are here, too... under 200MB, anything is about a dollar or a euro :) > Errr, here in O-hi-a the XT clones start at about $50 and go > up from there, Damn! Remind me to stash my suitcases with old hardware next week, when I fly back to California! They sell P2/450 machines (complete machines, not just the mb) for EUR 99 here :) Regarding a solution: yes, I agree sticking in some network card and dd'ing it off to an NFS or Samba box makes sense... that is how I did a lot of that stuff. A friend of mine (Robert Stockmann) made a toolkit that basically allows you to do this - its'called the Crash Recovery Kit (CRK), and its based on Linux. See www.crashrecovery.org for info, or email him at stock@stokkie.net. Its also running with diskettes, so your old peasees dont need to have a CDROM. Cheers, Fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 3 13:24:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: InfoServer and MOP Server status update Message-ID: Hey Fred, On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Fred deBros wrote: > Did u get any further in your search? No.. I am currently trying to finish the new MOP Server project, so thats (a) out of my way, and (b) available to people on the list. Basically, the usual loose ends such as portability and operation testing, and finishing the docs on it. The InfoServer project will complement the above, in that it will give us the ability to also net-boot VMS off any given install host. Basically, the InfoServer client uses MOP to kickstart things, and then uses LAST (aka LAD, aka LASTdisk) to do the rest of the disk I/O. Basically, I'd like to have an InfoServer running here, even if only for fun. I also need it to reverse-engineer the LAST protocol, since nobody seems to have a copy of its specification anymore. So, given the fact that an InfoServer (150, 1000) is just a regular 3100-model machine, I should be able to load the friggin software onto one, right? Anyone? Help! The Question: Given a regular MV3100-model box, and a working CDROM drive on it, HOW does one load the InfoServer stuff onto it, making it an operational InfoServer ? Cheers, Fred From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Mar 3 13:32:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228204301.00b9e730@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030303192000.01ac9f38@slave> At 11:52 02/03/2003, Witchy wrote: >S'OK - I'm off there tomorrow morning to pick it up Nice one. >and THEN worry about how >I'm going to get it in the garage :) The /only/ way :) 'course, space is not my problem, just the transport. However, the old Senator's starting to make more rattly noises than I'm totally comfortable with, so I'll be changing it sometime this year. For a nice BFO pickup I think. That way, with a couple of tarps & a pallet, I should be able to pick up (har har) pretty much any old iron. So long as it can be lifted, of course... >The garage was built in 1910 >and seems to be wide enough for an Austin 7 :) Snap! My garage will just fit the width of a Ford Granada (1" spare either side of the wing mirrors), but not the length... The Rover 820 completely defeated it, as would the Senator. Hey ho. Just have to fill it with old computers instead, I think :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From dittman at dittman.net Mon Mar 3 13:53:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: InfoServer and MOP Server status update In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Mar 03, 2003 08:20:29 PM Message-ID: <200303031949.h23JnCvn022865@narnia.int.dittman.net> > So, given the fact that an InfoServer (150, 1000) is just a regular > 3100-model machine, I should be able to load the friggin software > onto one, right? No. Only the 100 was a standard MicroVAX 3100 with new ROMs. The 150 and 1000 are custom boxes. > Given a regular MV3100-model box, and a working CDROM drive on > it, HOW does one load the InfoServer stuff onto it, making it > an operational InfoServer ? First, you get a copy of the IS100 ROMs and replace the ROMs in your MV3100 with them. Then, you boot from the ConDist CD with the InfoServer boot files and load that on the internal disk. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Mon Mar 3 13:55:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer 150 ? In-Reply-To: <000001c2e0c4$29c76360$6401a8c0@fred> from "Fred deBros" at Mar 02, 2003 09:01:03 AM Message-ID: <200303031950.h23JoZGl022884@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I have a 150. yes the cpu is ka-42-a, so is it a VS3100, or an MV3100 > ??? Because it should load netbsd according to netbsd vax. Mine has > disks and floppies and cd. It has a b/w framebuffer on it. I've tried IS150 ROMs in a MV3100 and VS3100 and it didn't work. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 3 13:56:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030303192000.01ac9f38@slave> Message-ID: <000201c2e1be$6c8a3d30$cb87fe3e@athlon> > think. That way, with a couple of tarps & a pallet, I should > be able to > pick up (har har) pretty much any old iron. So long as it can > be lifted, of > course... The man who turned up at the office to collect the kit that the reseller had bought, had a van (a Sprinter or some such) with an "after-market" built in tail-lift. By that I mean it was not visible outside the van (like say a Luton's would be) and it looked like an add-on rather than a standard fitting. Probably cost a bit too though (and my guess is something like a DECarray 900 would have tipped a titchy van like that over anyway :-) ) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Mar 3 14:18:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: CFV: NeXT Bible In-Reply-To: <002201c2e18f$d6b2a500$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E635F62.22201.27D72@localhost> Perfectly fair. The best conclusion would be a scan and then either offering it free on the web or selling copies at a reasonable price, if copyright permits. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 3 14:21:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Commodore Amiga 2000HD in Michigan Message-ID: Here's a fellow with an Amiga 2000HD in Michigan. Please contact him directly if interested. Reply-to: fearfactor@chartermi.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:23:54 -0500 From: fearfactor Subject: commadore Amiga i got a complrete commadore amiga 2000HD system. ya guys prob dont want it but i thought i would check. also a commadore (64ithink) 5" floppy drive i can provide pics upon request. -dave -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From franco.tassone at inwind.it Mon Mar 3 14:57:00 2003 From: franco.tassone at inwind.it (Franco Tassone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor Message-ID: <001d01c2e1c7$147ef000$93fd623e@tassone> Hi all, unfortunatelly one of my two RD54 hd (by Maxtor) in my mvaxII kept doing strange sounds at startup. It isn't coming on line as before, now it takes a lot of time while a continuous noisy sound comes from it, and after it seems sufferig of read problems at bootup. Any info/advices about RD54 and it's strange sounds will be greatly appreciated. ... Franco Tassone From nampcjr at yahoo.com Mon Mar 3 15:00:01 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: PCjr 1.44 floppy controller Message-ID: <20030303205542.78169.qmail@web20706.mail.yahoo.com> I am curious if anyone ever had one of the Legacy Enhanced Floppy Controllers for the PCjr, was ever able to duplicate one, or know if it was ever possible to modify the current controller to take on a 1.44mb capacity. I have a Racore unit with a modified 3.5" 1.44mb drive that acts as 720kb, and is fantastic, but would love that extra storage space if available! Brian From tim.myers at sunplan.com Mon Mar 3 15:09:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <000201c2e1be$6c8a3d30$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On 3/3/03 7:52 pm, "Antonio Carlini" scribed thus: > (and my > guess is something like a DECarray 900 would have tipped > a titchy van like that over anyway :-) ) The HP1000 systems that Ade and I shifted almost tipped over the Renault derived Luton with tail lift that we hired. I don't think Ade quite realised how much steering I wasn't doing on the roundabouts ;) Tim. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 3 15:13:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: Adrian Vickers "RE: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England" (Mar 3, 19:23) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228204301.00b9e730@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030303192000.01ac9f38@slave> Message-ID: <10303032104.ZM7654@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 3, 19:23, Adrian Vickers wrote: > At 11:52 02/03/2003, Witchy wrote: > >The garage was built in 1910 > >and seems to be wide enough for an Austin 7 :) > > Snap! My garage will just fit the width of a Ford Granada (1" spare either > side of the wing mirrors), but not the length... The Rover 820 completely > defeated it, as would the Senator. Hey ho. Just have to fill it with old > computers instead, I think :) Well, you saw what I did with mine :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Mar 3 15:20:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Help with H8 Parts Message-ID: <00b001c2e1ca$2a7e2a30$0d0cdd40@oemcomputer> Today while at the warehouse I located my H8 and was shocked to find that 4 of the buttons were broken off the entry pad. Can anyone give me a lead on were I can purchase a new or used pad? Also found the Floppy disk system ( 3 FD drives) and the H9 Video Terminal for it. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Mar 3 15:42:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: References: <000201c2e1be$6c8a3d30$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030303212909.00b3c360@slave> At 21:05 03/03/2003, you wrote: >On 3/3/03 7:52 pm, "Antonio Carlini" scribed thus: > > > (and my > > guess is something like a DECarray 900 would have tipped > > a titchy van like that over anyway :-) ) > >The HP1000 systems that Ade and I shifted almost tipped over the Renault >derived Luton with tail lift that we hired. I don't think Ade quite realised >how much steering I wasn't doing on the roundabouts ;) Oh, I realised all right... It was the fear that prevented me from saying anything :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From mross666 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 3 15:51:01 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: pdp-11/35 question... Message-ID: I was sure I had an 11/35 somewhere, but I can't find the damn thing anyplace(1)... I may have to build one (I was sure I had one because I have an 11/35 front panel, which I seemed to recall detaching 'for safe keeping'). Can anyone tell me the number of the power supply used in the 10 1/2" 11/35 rackmount box? Seem to recall it ran along the side, like a pdp-8e, not at the end, like an 11/20? Any suggestions on building an 11/35... any other DEC boxes use the same power supply? I've a couple of 11/40 KD11-A backplanes, was thinking vaguely of mounting one, along with the front panel, in some other DEC box... (since 11/35 meets the definition of 'fastest blinkenlights pdp-11 that can be built in a 10 1/2" rackmount chassis'). Cheers Mike http://www.corestore.org (1) being able to 'loose' an 11/35 could well be the definition of 'having too many computers'!!! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Mar 3 16:10:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: scrappers Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030303220118.028e36e8@mail.mosthosts.com> Just in case anybody is in Manchester, UK, with a little bit more front than me, and wants to investigate, I noticed while visiting a customer nearby today that a scrap metal dealer in the Vaughn Industrial Estate, Gorton, Manchester (100 yards from Ashburys station) was unloading a wagon with pallet after pallet load of what looked like a 14" monitors and Wyse serial terminals. From a quick look into their warehouse, they had various other interesting pallets stacked up.. From aek at spies.com Mon Mar 3 16:40:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: pdp-11/35 question... Message-ID: <200303032240.h23MeHiY007717@spies.com> Any suggestions on building an 11/35... any other DEC boxes use the same power supply? -- The 11/34 is the most similar to an 11/35 From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Mar 3 16:48:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: pdp-11/35 question... In-Reply-To: <200303032240.h23MeHiY007717@spies.com> References: <200303032240.h23MeHiY007717@spies.com> Message-ID: <4615.4.20.168.218.1046731470.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Mike wrote: > Any suggestions on building an 11/35... any other DEC boxes use the same > power supply? Al wrote: > The 11/34 is the most similar to an 11/35 Aside from the 10.5" tall 11/40, which is identical to an 11/35 except for the silkscreening of the front panel. I think the 10.5" tall variant of the 11/05 and 11/10 is probably closer to the 11/35 than the 11/34 is. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Mar 3 17:08:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: scrappers In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030303220118.028e36e8@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030303230318.01a27d28@slave> At 22:07 03/03/2003, you wrote: >Just in case anybody is in Manchester, UK, with a little bit more front >than me, and wants to investigate, I noticed while visiting a customer >nearby today that a scrap metal dealer in the Vaughn Industrial Estate, >Gorton, Manchester (100 yards from Ashburys station) was unloading a wagon >with pallet after pallet load of what looked like a 14" monitors and Wyse >serial terminals. From a quick look into their warehouse, they had >various other interesting pallets stacked up.. A bit of research would indicate that they are: Concorde Metals Recycling Ltd Unit 10, Vaughan Ind Est Vaugham St Manchester Lancashire M12 5BT Tel: 0161 223 3368 I'll give 'em a bell tomorrow - if they're open Saturdays, I may be able to wander over & have a looksee. If not, I'll need to find someone who can "do" Manchester during the week (as I can't, what with being in Southend...). -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 3 17:49:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules In-Reply-To: <200303031701.MAA04577@parse.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030303173051.11bfcda0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Robert, Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one that's dead. Joe At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, >and am writing the control software for it (which will be >available for free). > >I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it >that they want to get rid of? I currently have the >2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. >I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. > >I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. >These things are pretty light. > >Thanks, >-RK > >-- >Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 3 17:58:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:00 2005 Subject: PCjr 1.44 floppy controller In-Reply-To: <20030303205542.78169.qmail@web20706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, Brian Heise wrote: > I am curious if anyone ever had one of the Legacy Enhanced Floppy > Controllers for the PCjr, was ever able to duplicate one, or know if "have?" no "ever had" yes I sold my Jr's a few years ago. But the guy who bought the one with the "Legacy" board brought it back to sell it at VCF last year. > it was ever possible to modify the current controller to take on a > 1.44mb capacity. > I have a Racore unit with a modified 3.5" 1.44mb drive that acts as > 720kb, and is fantastic, but would love that extra storage space if > available! 720K does not require any modification. See also, the PC-JX (never sold in USA) Using a 1.4M drive for 720K usually doesn't require any mods. But getting 1.4M to work on a JR poses some problems. The STOCK controller for the Jr. would need a minor hardware mod to get the 500K bits per second data transfer rate. And the stock controller does NOT do DMA. Can you write the code tight enough to do the data transfer through the CPU at "high density" rates? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 3 18:44:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Looking for parts for an HP 9821A desktop calculator In-Reply-To: from "Stan" at Mar 3, 3 10:22:46 am Message-ID: > Hello, > > I recently acquired an old HP 9821A desktop calculator. It's in good shape Wow! The 9821 is, I beleive, by far the rarest of that family... > cosmetically, but it has apparently had previously donated some of its > internal cards to an unknown cause. Specifically, it seems to be missing > three of the four CPU cards, and two of the three RAM cards. > > A quick search of some sources suggests that some or all of the CPU cards > are identical to those in the 9810A and possibly the 9830A. I don't know Yes, or rather I can confirm that the 9810 and 9830 use the same CPU cards. I have both machines, and I've interchanged CPU cards between them (in both directions) with no problems. The CPU cards have the same part numbers too... In case you've not figured it out yet, the part numbers of the cards in these machines start with the model number of the machine where they were first used (and the 9810, using 09810-665xx cards, came out first). You may also find 09865-665xx cards in the cassette drive controller -- you do in the 9830, for example. The card handles of the cards give the last 2 digits of the part number, using the obvious code (if you can't work out what the 'obvious code' is, then you shouldn't be inside the machine in the first place ;-)). The CPU boards are : 09810-66511 (Br/Br) I/O interface 09810-66512 (Br/R) CPU Clock and I/O logic 09810-66513 (Br/Or) CPU control (microcode, etc) 09810-66514 (Br/Y) CPU data path Here are some notes about the 98x0 CPU that were sitting about on this PC. I've got some more info like this on the 9810 and 9830 machines (discovered by pulling them apart carefully :-)) if anyone is interested... --------------------------- There are 4 PCBs, each with about 20 chips. Mostly TTL (including 74Hxxx numbers -- watch out, these can have odd pinouts). 9 small (256*4) PROMs (Microcode and ALU lookup tables). The boards (like all those in the machine) have colour-coded handles which relate to the last 2 digits of the part number (the rest of the number is always 09810-665xx) using the obvious code. Here's roughly what goes on on the CPU boards (Br handle on rear): Data path (Br/Y). ALU (2 PROMs as a lookup table) -- 1 bit for binary operations, 1 nybble for BCD ('decimal'). 2 flags (in 7474) for carry and decimal carry. Main registers : A Accumlator is 16 bits with nybble access to the ends ('95 -> '91 ->'95). B and P registers are 16 bit, serial only (9328s). E register is 4 bits, serial only, used to store one nybble during shifts? Includes one of the bit muxes for the ALU input ('53 with '62 expander). The other one is on the memory data PCB (!). Note that memory can be read by nybble too (the low 4 bits of the T register (memory data register) are brought to this PCB. Therefore BCD operations are A=A+memory kind of things. Control (Br/O). Microcode PROMs obviously (but they're not all next to each other, so watch out!). Also microcode program counter (4 off 'H108 JKs). Note that the next microcode address field specifies the bits to _change_ (it's connected to the J and K inputs on the FFs), which is odd. One half of this field also selects the branch condition, which affects one bit in the other half (writing this microcode must have involved some serious hackery!). 16 input condition mux (from carry flags, I/O flags, LSB of P register, and many bits of Q). Also Q register (16 bit SR, used to store instruction fetched from memory. Microcode field decoders ('155s, used as 3-8 decoders) A/B register select FF ('H101). Test connector on top of PCB carries microcode address, microcode address changes, condition mux output, so you can see what the machine is doing (given a logic analyser and a microcode listing!). Clock (Br/R). Master clock obviously. Note the pads to connect an external TTL clock generator to -- shorting the 2 on the solder side together disables the internal osciallator. These signals are also on (unconnected) fingers on the edge connector. Also the /n counter to produce the microcode clock (this thing will generate 1-16 shift pulses for each instruction -- set by a field in the microcode word -- so it can do n-bit operations between the main registers) + control logic. I/O function register (loaded from Q) and decoder (The '154 in the middle of the board). I/O clock is odd. It's generated via that decoder by fiddling with the instruction in the I/O command register (done via some of the gates), which means it runs at half the main clock speed. So does the bit clock during I/O operations (!). Thrre's a FF on the I/O card to synchronise this. I/O operation FF (the 'H101). Other random logic for I/O control. I/O bit counter. I/O (Br/Br). I/O data register (16 bit, parallel and serial access) + control logic. Note that for external devices, that's 8 bit data, 4 bit select (address), 4 bit control. For internal devices (keyboard, display, card reader, printer), it's 16 bit data, selects come from other logic). Also sync FF at the input to this, control gating. Several SR FFs (made from NAND gates -- lots of feedback paths to catch you!) to handle I/O select and control. Memory cage (R handle at rear) ---- NOTE THIS IS 9810 SPECIFIC!!. R/Pu is the backplane, and contains no other electronics. There's a test connector on top (36 pin) which gives +5V, ground, the 16 bits of M (address) and 16 bits of T (data), but with no sync signals). At the bottom, the rear connector carries power and CPU signals (mostly bit-serial). The front connector is parallel address, data, selects for the cartridge ROMs, and is routed to the cartridge backplane only. ROM (R/Br) system firmware. Note that HP ROMs are strange, needing a -2V or so bias supply and both normal and inverted forms of the highest address bit. The selects (CE And CS) need to be taken to +12V to enable the ROM (this is done on the address PCB for all ROMs, including those in cartridges). TIming/Control (R/R). Memory cycle timing (counter, '154 decoder, gates). Refresh counter and mux for DRAMs. Refresh timing monostable. Low 5 RAM address buffers (address bits from refresh mux, you see). Drivers for R/W and Precharge lines to RAM. M and T register control gates Address (R/Or). M (address) shift register (16 bit). Address decoder (note that ROM and RAM are in the same address space, and neither are contiguous!). RAM address buffers, ROM and RAM CS buffers. ROM address gates Data (R/Y). T (data) shift register, bit doubling logic for RAM read (the RAM is only half width, so 2 cycles are done with a shift between them for reads -- this is handled by the control/timing PCB, not the CPU). RAM data buffers (read and write). RAM (R/Gn, R/Bu). 1103 DRAM chips (1K *1 bit, PMOS, odd voltage levels). Nothing more. RAM is either 8 bit (data store, doubled to 16 bits on the data PCB)< or 3 bit (program store, doubled to 6 bit (keycodes)). RAMs are labelled in the etch with their bit number which helps. ------------------------------------- > about the RAM cards, though. Obviously, the CPU and RAM cards from a 9820A I cna tell you that the 9810 and 9830 have very different memory cards. The 9810 has a little memory cage with its own backplane containing cars about the same size as the CPU cards (see the descriptions above). The 9830 has larger cards that go across the whole width of the machine -- up to 2 RAM cards (4K 16 bit words each max, in 1103s), 1 main ROM card (28 ROM chips !), Memory control/address, Memory Data, Extension ROM Selector, a card with 2 more ROM chips that wouldn't fit on the main ROM card (!), and up to 3 intenral extension ROM cards.... > would be an exact replacement. > > Any help in getting this classic beast running again will be greatly > appreciated! If you need help with repairing any of the cards that are also used in the 9810 or 9830 (check the part numbers), just ask. I have worked on these machines at the component level... I do not have any spare cards, though. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 3 18:45:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: pdp-11/35 question... In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ross" at Mar 3, 3 09:37:05 pm Message-ID: > Any suggestions on building an 11/35... any other DEC boxes use the same > power supply? I've a couple of 11/40 KD11-A backplanes, was thinking vaguely I thought the 10.5" version of the 11/35 went into a BA11-K box, with the PSU across the back. The same box is used for the 10.5" version of the 11/05, 11/10, 11/34. You would haev to select the right PSU bricks for the memory your'e using -- you'd need a 20V regulator if you're fitting core, for example. -tony From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Mar 3 18:46:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Looking for a 486 system... In-Reply-To: <200302281920460769.2883D409@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030304003112.01b10860@pop.freeserve.net> Not sure if you found one yet, but if you (or anyone else) are still on the lookout, I've got several bog-standard clone 486 motherboards with PCI slots. One board still has an AMD 4/100 in it, and I know I have some slower processors somewhere. requires 72pin SIMMs for RAM (which should have some somewhere too). AT keyboard connector, no specific mouse port, but would have thought those were work-around-able. If you want, you can have free but for cost of shipping. I'm in Salford, UK, so this might not be as cheap as it sounds. I've got cases too, but probably cheaper to source your own locally! Also got a pile of P1 boards if anybody is after any. Regards Rob At 19:20 28/02/2003 -0800, Bruce Lane wrote: > Here's what I'd like to find. A small tower-style 486, mini or > mid, with PS/2 type ports for keyboard and mouse built in. Speed-wise, it > should be in the DX33 or DX2/66 class. It should have switchable > "Turbo/Non-Turbo" mode, either from a front-panel switch or from a > keypress combination. Finally, it needs to have at least two PCI slots in > addition to the usual ISA or EISA. From nampcjr at yahoo.com Mon Mar 3 19:09:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: PCjr 1.44 floppy controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030304010558.29799.qmail@web20702.mail.yahoo.com> Fred Thanks for the info. Actually, I did do a modification to mine. I guess I should clarify my 3.5" floppy mod. I just hacked the Drive Select, so I could use the standard Racore floppy drive cable. I didnt want, or have the means, as I do now, to make my own cables. Wish I had one of those controllers! Brian "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, Brian Heise wrote: > I am curious if anyone ever had one of the Legacy Enhanced Floppy > Controllers for the PCjr, was ever able to duplicate one, or know if "have?" no "ever had" yes I sold my Jr's a few years ago. But the guy who bought the one with the "Legacy" board brought it back to sell it at VCF last year. > it was ever possible to modify the current controller to take on a > 1.44mb capacity. > I have a Racore unit with a modified 3.5" 1.44mb drive that acts as > 720kb, and is fantastic, but would love that extra storage space if > available! 720K does not require any modification. See also, the PC-JX (never sold in USA) Using a 1.4M drive for 720K usually doesn't require any mods. But getting 1.4M to work on a JR poses some problems. The STOCK controller for the Jr. would need a minor hardware mod to get the 500K bits per second data transfer rate. And the stock controller does NOT do DMA. Can you write the code tight enough to do the data transfer through the CPU at "high density" rates? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From davebarnes at adelphia.net Mon Mar 3 19:12:01 2003 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: CFV: NeXT Bible References: <002201c2e18f$d6b2a500$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E63FDE4.4F81483A@adelphia.net> Its a VERY rare title. I bought mine on ebay years ago for $50, I have since been offered up to $120 for it multiple times.. but its NOT for sale... John Allain wrote: > Call For Votes: Sell the NeXT Bible? > > I was reading the 'NeXT Bible' before giving it over > to someone and wanted to find the text of it online to > clip and save. I didn't find the text, but I found somebodies' > webpage where he was listing it for an unexpectedly large > sum. Some research in other places showed it priced really > high, esp. for a paperback. I thought that maybe letting this go > for free is a mistake, that it may be a rare title. > This is also about the single most requested item in the free > books too BTW. > > So, am I a Rat Bastard if I withdraw this from the free list and > try to sell it on my own or should I stick to the original offer > and keep good will? > > I'll let the democracy speak on this one. > Send your vote. Please respond off list. > > John A. -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Mar 3 19:22:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: VAX 4000-90A on epay... Message-ID: <012a01c2e1ec$45b4e650$7d00a8c0@george> This came in on another list this afternoon... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404544601&category=1486 Per the seller, it `is FULL of ram', but I can't tell if it's the 4MB or 16MB SIMMs. No relation to seller, YMMV, IANAL, etc., etc., etc. Bob From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 3 19:29:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules Message-ID: <200303040124.RAA29113@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe When I was back at Intel, I was responsible for the test used by the system test on the UPP units. I can tell you a little bit about them. First, I have no idea what a "upgraded the RAM memory" means. These used 4002's. These work on the 4004/4040 bus. They are completely incompatable with other types of RAM's and they also have input ports on them ( or maybe it was output but I think it was inputs ). The internal orginization is not compatable with ordinary RAM's either( not a simple power of two type addressing ). The main controller board has a 4040 uP with some ROM ( 4001's ). This ROM was addressed as bank0. Each of the two slots for the personality cards was addressed as Bank0 for slot 0 and Bank1 for slot 1. This way, personality code could be accessed on either bank to run the particular operation. The code on the controller board ran the handshake with the parallel port to the Intelec system. I wish that I'd saved the schematics I'd had at Intel but I was not as smart then. I'd also made a board that I'd plugged into a Intelec system in place of the 4040. It allowed me to test the hardware and compare ROM code to make sure every thing was correct. This is also long gone. I once even had the ROM code for these. Dwight >From: Joe > >Hi Robert, > > Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one that's dead. > > Joe > > > >At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >>Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, >>and am writing the control software for it (which will be >>available for free). >> >>I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it >>that they want to get rid of? I currently have the >>2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. >>I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. >> >>I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. >>These things are pretty light. >> >>Thanks, >>-RK >> >>-- >>Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >>Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >>Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 3 19:34:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question Message-ID: I've managed to find the pieces (or at least the most important, which is one of my two RD54's) to do some performance testing on Doc's recent idea of using a network disk instead of a local disk to get better performance than a RQDX3/RD54 combo offers. As a result I'm trying to get either a VAXstation 4000/60 or /90 setup so that I can use it as the host. In doing this I ran into a slight problem with VAX/VMS V5.5-2, it doesn't like my 3rd party SCSI disks that I've got in the /90. Not a big problem as I've got some brand new (!) RZ25's that I can put into one of the systems, and I want to put a RRD42 into one of them as well. Stupid question, how to I go about getting the cover off of the 5 1/4" bay, and am I supposed to have another piece of plastic to go there? If it requires another piece of plastic (that I don't have), I'll just hook the drive up internally long enough to do the install. Now to decide which system gets a V5.5-2 install, I'll probably go with the /90 as it's my fastest VAX, and will therefore be the best for building software on. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dmabry at mich.com Mon Mar 3 19:37:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules References: <200303040124.RAA29113@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E64024F.1050601@mich.com> Dwight and all, The UPP was the 4040-based eprom programmer. Joe and Robert are talking about the iUP-201. It's been a long time, but I also upgraded the memory on mine. I doubled it. I think from Intel it could have either of two sizes of ram chips populating it. Probably a jumper or such to change it from the smaller chips to the larger ones. Sorry to be vague about it, but I seem to only be able to remember bits and pieces of that life. Just ask Joe! ;-) Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Joe > When I was back at Intel, I was responsible for the test > used by the system test on the UPP units. I can tell you a > little bit about them. > First, I have no idea what a "upgraded the RAM memory" > means. These used 4002's. These work on the 4004/4040 > bus. They are completely incompatable with other types > of RAM's and they also have input ports on them ( or > maybe it was output but I think it was inputs ). > The internal orginization is not compatable with ordinary > RAM's either( not a simple power of two type addressing ). > The main controller board has a 4040 uP with some ROM > ( 4001's ). This ROM was addressed as > bank0. Each of the two slots for the personality cards > was addressed as Bank0 for slot 0 and Bank1 for slot 1. > This way, personality code could be accessed on either > bank to run the particular operation. The code on the > controller board ran the handshake with the parallel > port to the Intelec system. > I wish that I'd saved the schematics I'd had at Intel > but I was not as smart then. I'd also made a board that > I'd plugged into a Intelec system in place of the 4040. > It allowed me to test the hardware and compare ROM code > to make sure every thing was correct. This is also long > gone. > I once even had the ROM code for these. > Dwight > > > >>From: Joe >> >>Hi Robert, >> >> Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one > > that's dead. > >> Joe >> >> >> >>At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, >>>and am writing the control software for it (which will be >>>available for free). >>> >>>I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it >>>that they want to get rid of? I currently have the >>>2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. >>>I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. >>> >>>I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. >>>These things are pretty light. >>> >>>Thanks, >>>-RK >>> >>>-- >>>Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >>>Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >>>Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com >> > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 3 19:45:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Stupid question, how to I go about getting the cover off of the 5 1/4" bay, > and am I supposed to have another piece of plastic to go there? If it > requires another piece of plastic (that I don't have), I'll just hook the > drive up internally long enough to do the install. There's a bezel that goes where the blank was. If you don't have it, there's a ~3/8" gap all around the CD-ROM drive. I just use an external CD-ROM drive. Doc From jim at smithy.com Mon Mar 3 19:53:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donaghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: SMD disk interface pinout/specs Message-ID: <200303032049.AA264110146@smithy.com> Does anyone have the specs/pinout for the 60-pin and 26-pin SMD disk drive interface? From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Mar 3 20:14:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: making disk images References: Message-ID: <014701c2e1f3$7f063150$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:19 PM Subject: Re: making disk images > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Errr, here in O-hi-a the XT clones start at about $50 and go > > up from there, > Damn! Remind me to stash my suitcases with old hardware next > week, when I fly back to California! They sell P2/450 machines > (complete machines, not just the mb) for EUR 99 here :) It's only in Ohio. I nearly cry whenever someone from Texas starts talking about what they picked up off the curb-- it's generally better than the stuff I can buy around here. D@mn the Salvation Army and VOA-- they're out to make a profit around here. > > Regarding a solution: yes, I agree sticking in some network card > and dd'ing it off to an NFS or Samba box makes sense... that is > how I did a lot of that stuff. > > A friend of mine (Robert Stockmann) made a toolkit that basically > allows you to do this - its'called the Crash Recovery Kit (CRK), > and its based on Linux. See www.crashrecovery.org for info, > or email him at stock@stokkie.net. Its also running with > diskettes, so your old peasees dont need to have a CDROM. This looks close, I want to try and get it down to a single disk if I can. > > Cheers, > Fred Bob From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 3 20:20:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules Message-ID: <200303040216.SAA29153@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Dave Oops, This was after my time there. Thanks for correcting me. Dwight >From: "Dave Mabry" > >Dwight and all, > >The UPP was the 4040-based eprom programmer. Joe and Robert are talking >about the iUP-201. It's been a long time, but I also upgraded the >memory on mine. I doubled it. I think from Intel it could have either >of two sizes of ram chips populating it. Probably a jumper or such to >change it from the smaller chips to the larger ones. Sorry to be vague >about it, but I seem to only be able to remember bits and pieces of that >life. Just ask Joe! ;-) > > > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Hi Joe >> When I was back at Intel, I was responsible for the test >> used by the system test on the UPP units. I can tell you a >> little bit about them. >> First, I have no idea what a "upgraded the RAM memory" >> means. These used 4002's. These work on the 4004/4040 >> bus. They are completely incompatable with other types >> of RAM's and they also have input ports on them ( or >> maybe it was output but I think it was inputs ). >> The internal orginization is not compatable with ordinary >> RAM's either( not a simple power of two type addressing ). >> The main controller board has a 4040 uP with some ROM >> ( 4001's ). This ROM was addressed as >> bank0. Each of the two slots for the personality cards >> was addressed as Bank0 for slot 0 and Bank1 for slot 1. >> This way, personality code could be accessed on either >> bank to run the particular operation. The code on the >> controller board ran the handshake with the parallel >> port to the Intelec system. >> I wish that I'd saved the schematics I'd had at Intel >> but I was not as smart then. I'd also made a board that >> I'd plugged into a Intelec system in place of the 4040. >> It allowed me to test the hardware and compare ROM code >> to make sure every thing was correct. This is also long >> gone. >> I once even had the ROM code for these. >> Dwight >> >> >> >>>From: Joe >>> >>>Hi Robert, >>> >>> Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one >> >> that's dead. >> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>>At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>>>Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, >>>>and am writing the control software for it (which will be >>>>available for free). >>>> >>>>I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it >>>>that they want to get rid of? I currently have the >>>>2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. >>>>I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. >>>> >>>>I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. >>>>These things are pretty light. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>-RK >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >>>>Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >>>>Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com >>> >> >> . >> > > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Mar 3 20:21:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: making disk images References: <000a01c2e120$b976aa00$7d00a8c0@george> <000f01c2e15b$7e5d1c20$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <014c01c2e1f4$6bde8450$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:04 AM Subject: Re: making disk images > Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea > > hardware? > [snip] > > I was > > wondering if anyone else had a solution. > Norton Ghost in Ghostcast network mode. Oh, and a copy of Ghostcast Server. A lot of recommendations for Norton Ghost, but alas it doesn't appear run on the PS/1 (Win 3.1) which is the first machine that I want to back up. Also, I'm sure the price isn't going to compare favorably with the non-cost of the PS/1. > > Later. > -- > Phil. Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Mar 3 20:25:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: making disk images References: Message-ID: <015b01c2e1f5$07cf52e0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 12:55 AM Subject: Re: making disk images > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > > Tom's Root/Boot Disk > > http://www.toms.net/rb This looks like it might be a winner. I'm a little nervous about the 1.7MB format, but WTH. Oh-- hmmm... It just occured to me that the PS/1 might have a 720K floppy. Bummer, I'll have to check. > > Doc Bob From nampcjr at yahoo.com Mon Mar 3 20:49:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: WTB: PCjr Items In-Reply-To: <20030303205542.78169.qmail@web20706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030304024527.75926.qmail@web20701.mail.yahoo.com> I am looking for PCjr cartridges, mainly ones from PC Enterprises, like the Combo Cartrisge, Keyboard Buffer Cartridge, Quicksilver and JrVideo. Of course all PCjr specific software and cartridges are welcomed in my home! Also on the lookout for sidecars (Really want a TMC 850jr SCSI sidecar - also from PC Enterprises), serial cards fitted for the modem slot, memory sidecars, MS sidecars, AST PCNetIIjr's, Legacy Expansion units, HDD kits of anykind (I think Racore made one as well). I would be willing to trade or buy outright if you wish. Let me know what you have! Thanks!! Brian From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 3 21:01:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: SMD disk interface pinout/specs In-Reply-To: <200303032049.AA264110146@smithy.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030303204845.01965fc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> According to my Emulex SC31 manual: Pins Lo/Hi Signal (Tag 3 Function) From/To ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Cable: 22,52 Unit Select Tag To 23,53 Unit Select Bit 0 To 24,54 Unit Select Bit 1 To 26,56 Unit Select Bit 2 To 27,57 Unit Select Bit 3 To 1,31 Tag 1 To 2,32 Tag 2 To 3,33 Tag 3 To 4,34 Bit 0 (Write Gate) To 5,35 Bit 1 (Read Gate) To 6,36 Bit 2 (Servo Offset Plus) To 7,37 Bit 3 (Servo Offset Minus) To 8,38 Bit 4 (Fault Clear) To 9,39 Bit 5 (AM Enable) To 10,40 Bit 6 (Return To Zero) To 11,41 Bit 7 (Data Strobe Early) To 12,42 Bit 8 (Data Strobe Late) To 13,43 Bit 9 (Release) To 30,60 Bit 10 To 14,44 Open Cable Detect To 15,45 Fault From 16,46 Seek Error From 17,47 On Cylinder From 18,48 Index From 19,49 Unit Ready From 20,50 Address Mark Found From 21,51 Busy (dual port only) From 25,55 Sector From 28,58 Write Protected From 29 Power Sequence Hold To 59 Power Sequence Pick To B Cable: 8,20 Write Data To 6,19 Write Clock To 2,14 Servo Clock From 3,16 Read Data From 5,17 Read Clock From 10,23 Seek End From 22,9 Unit Selected From 12,24 Index From 13,26 Sector From Please excuse any typos... --tom At 08:49 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have the specs/pinout for the 60-pin and 26-pin SMD disk drive >interface? From aek at spies.com Mon Mar 3 21:01:17 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: SMD disk interface pinout/specs Message-ID: <200303040301.h2431ZDk029736@spies.com> .Does anyone have the specs/pinout for the 60-pin and 26-pin SMD disk drive interface? -- I have it scanned, i'll see about getting it pdf'ed and up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/cdc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 3 21:05:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules In-Reply-To: <200303040124.RAA29113@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030303220533.1967f65a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, Are you sure that you're not thinking of the older UPP-103 EPROM programmer? I know that it uses a 4040 but IIRC I've opened up an iUPP-201 and I THINK it used an 8085. The iUPP-201 looks kind of like a calculator with a keyboard on the right side and a single line LED display above it. On the left side next to the keyboard is large socket for the personality adapter. The personality adapter has the socket for the EPROM or other device to be programmed. The older iUPP-103 looks like a box with a sloping front. It has two EPROM sockets on the right side. The personality is controlled by cards that go inside the box. FWIW I picked up several more iUPP-103s with the massive load of intel stuff that I got just before Christmas. I found some of the cards for them but alas no CPU cards. Need any parts? Joe At 05:24 PM 3/3/03 -0800, Dwight wrote: >Hi Joe > When I was back at Intel, I was responsible for the test >used by the system test on the UPP units. I can tell you a >little bit about them. > First, I have no idea what a "upgraded the RAM memory" >means. These used 4002's. These work on the 4004/4040 >bus. They are completely incompatable with other types >of RAM's and they also have input ports on them ( or >maybe it was output but I think it was inputs ). >The internal orginization is not compatable with ordinary >RAM's either( not a simple power of two type addressing ). > The main controller board has a 4040 uP with some ROM >( 4001's ). This ROM was addressed as >bank0. Each of the two slots for the personality cards >was addressed as Bank0 for slot 0 and Bank1 for slot 1. >This way, personality code could be accessed on either >bank to run the particular operation. The code on the >controller board ran the handshake with the parallel >port to the Intelec system. > I wish that I'd saved the schematics I'd had at Intel >but I was not as smart then. I'd also made a board that >I'd plugged into a Intelec system in place of the 4040. >It allowed me to test the hardware and compare ROM code >to make sure every thing was correct. This is also long >gone. > I once even had the ROM code for these. >Dwight > > >>From: Joe >> >>Hi Robert, >> >> Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one >that's dead. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >>At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >>>Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, >>>and am writing the control software for it (which will be >>>available for free). >>> >>>I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it >>>that they want to get rid of? I currently have the >>>2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. >>>I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. >>> >>>I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. >>>These things are pretty light. >>> >>>Thanks, >>>-RK >>> >>>-- >>>Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >>>Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >>>Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 3 21:05:10 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules In-Reply-To: <3E64024F.1050601@mich.com> References: <200303040124.RAA29113@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030303220712.18df5d44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:33 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >Dwight and all, > >The UPP was the 4040-based eprom programmer. Joe and Robert are talking >about the iUP-201. It's been a long time, but I also upgraded the >memory on mine. I doubled it. I think from Intel it could have either >of two sizes of ram chips populating it. Probably a jumper or such to >change it from the smaller chips to the larger ones. Sorry to be vague >about it, but I seem to only be able to remember bits and pieces of that >life. Just ask Joe! ;-) I know that the iUPP-201 came with 32k of RAM and IIRC it could be upgraded to 64k. IIRC it uses an 8085 CPU. Joe > > > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Hi Joe >> When I was back at Intel, I was responsible for the test >> used by the system test on the UPP units. I can tell you a >> little bit about them. >> First, I have no idea what a "upgraded the RAM memory" >> means. These used 4002's. These work on the 4004/4040 >> bus. They are completely incompatable with other types >> of RAM's and they also have input ports on them ( or >> maybe it was output but I think it was inputs ). >> The internal orginization is not compatable with ordinary >> RAM's either( not a simple power of two type addressing ). >> The main controller board has a 4040 uP with some ROM >> ( 4001's ). This ROM was addressed as >> bank0. Each of the two slots for the personality cards >> was addressed as Bank0 for slot 0 and Bank1 for slot 1. >> This way, personality code could be accessed on either >> bank to run the particular operation. The code on the >> controller board ran the handshake with the parallel >> port to the Intelec system. >> I wish that I'd saved the schematics I'd had at Intel >> but I was not as smart then. I'd also made a board that >> I'd plugged into a Intelec system in place of the 4040. >> It allowed me to test the hardware and compare ROM code >> to make sure every thing was correct. This is also long >> gone. >> I once even had the ROM code for these. >> Dwight >> >> >> >>>From: Joe >>> >>>Hi Robert, >>> >>> Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one >> >> that's dead. >> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>>At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>>>Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, >>>>and am writing the control software for it (which will be >>>>available for free). >>>> >>>>I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it >>>>that they want to get rid of? I currently have the >>>>2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. >>>>I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. >>>> >>>>I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. >>>>These things are pretty light. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>-RK >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >>>>Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >>>>Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com >>> >> >> . >> > > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 From red at bears.org Mon Mar 3 21:19:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > As a result I'm trying to get either a VAXstation 4000/60 or /90 setup so > that I can use it as the host. In doing this I ran into a slight problem > with VAX/VMS V5.5-2, it doesn't like my 3rd party SCSI disks that I've got > in the /90. Not a big problem as I've got some brand new (!) RZ25's that I > can put into one of the systems, and I want to put a RRD42 into one of them > as well. Are you sure it's the disks? I have VMS 5.5-2 and it would not install on my /90 at all. I don't remember now how it behaved, but it definitely did not work. Since I was using real RZ25s and an RRD46, there's no way it could've been due to third-party drives. Either Megan or Allison told me that 5.5-4 was the minimum for a /90. I ended up having to get my hands on 7.1 media, which worked just fine. Good luck. ok r. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 3 21:20:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules Message-ID: <200303040317.TAA29210@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe Yes, you are right. It was just a little brain rot on my part. Dwight >From: Joe > >Dwight, > > Are you sure that you're not thinking of the older UPP-103 EPROM programmer? I know that it uses a 4040 but IIRC I've opened up an iUPP-201 and I THINK it used an 8085. The iUPP-201 looks kind of like a calculator with a keyboard on the right side and a single line LED display above it. On the left side next to the keyboard is large socket for the personality adapter. The personality adapter has the socket for the EPROM or other device to be programmed. The older iUPP-103 looks like a box with a sloping front. It has two EPROM sockets on the right side. The personality is controlled by cards that go inside the box. FWIW I picked up several more iUPP-103s with the massive load of intel stuff that I got just before Christmas. I found some of the cards for them but alas no CPU cards. Need any parts? > > Joe > > > >At 05:24 PM 3/3/03 -0800, Dwight wrote: >>Hi Joe >> When I was back at Intel, I was responsible for the test >>used by the system test on the UPP units. I can tell you a >>little bit about them. >> First, I have no idea what a "upgraded the RAM memory" >>means. These used 4002's. These work on the 4004/4040 >>bus. They are completely incompatable with other types >>of RAM's and they also have input ports on them ( or >>maybe it was output but I think it was inputs ). >>The internal orginization is not compatable with ordinary >>RAM's either( not a simple power of two type addressing ). >> The main controller board has a 4040 uP with some ROM >>( 4001's ). This ROM was addressed as >>bank0. Each of the two slots for the personality cards >>was addressed as Bank0 for slot 0 and Bank1 for slot 1. >>This way, personality code could be accessed on either >>bank to run the particular operation. The code on the >>controller board ran the handshake with the parallel >>port to the Intelec system. >> I wish that I'd saved the schematics I'd had at Intel >>but I was not as smart then. I'd also made a board that >>I'd plugged into a Intelec system in place of the 4040. >>It allowed me to test the hardware and compare ROM code >>to make sure every thing was correct. This is also long >>gone. >> I once even had the ROM code for these. >>Dwight >> >> >>>From: Joe >>> >>>Hi Robert, >>> >>> Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one >>that's dead. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>>At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >>>>Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, >>>>and am writing the control software for it (which will be >>>>available for free). >>>> >>>>I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it >>>>that they want to get rid of? I currently have the >>>>2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. >>>>I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. >>>> >>>>I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. >>>>These things are pretty light. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>-RK >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >>>>Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >>>>Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Mar 3 21:24:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Dual File Structure CD for RT-11 Message-ID: <3E641B8E.5174C82F@compsys.to> I don't know how many people might be interested, but I have finally been successful in creating a Bootable RT-11 CD which also has the standard ISO file structure. However, the really key point is that none of the files on the CD are duplicated. On the other hand, I am unable to test the CD that I just burned using real DEC PDP-11 hardware since I have never tried very hard to find and successfully test a CD-ROM drive with a SCSI host adapter on the Qbus PDP-11 which is available for such purposes. But, using the Full Commercial Ersatz-11 running under Windows 98 SE, I just did the commands: MOUNT DU0: SCSI0: BOOT DU0: I assume that if I had a suitable real DEC PDP-11 system with a SCSI CD-ROM drive, the exercise would work there as well since I know that others have been successful with an RT-11 ONLY CD that boots on real DEC PDP-11 hardware. Since many of you reading this who don't know much about RT-11 will likely be confused, let me describe very briefly how I started. I first took 4 RT-11 RL02 bootable images or DSK files, each being 20450 blocks long. Since only the first 5000 to 6000 blocks of each file contained useful non-zero information, I reduced each image to the size that did not contain any blocks with all zeros so that all 4 RL02 images would fit into a single RT-11 partitions of 65536 blocks. I then used Nero Burning under Windows 98 SE to copy all 4 RL02 images to a CD which had the standard ISO file structure after which I copied 24612 blocks from the CD-RW to a file under Windows 98 SE: Blocks 0 to 63 - All zeros Blocks 64 to 99 - Standard ISO file structure Blocks 100 to 24599 - The 4 files Blocks 24600 to 24603 - Extra information for the standard ISO file structure Blocks 24604 to 24611 - All zeros The first file from block 100 to block 5192 was the RL02 bootable image for V5.03 of RT-11. There is one technical problem I have not solved - the current test was done with a CD with an image that is identical to a file of 24612 decimal blocks - which is less than one full RT-11 partition. If I am going to be able to use a CD with more than 65536 decimal blocks of files (i.e. more than one full RT-11 partition), I will have to solve one critical problem. I must find a method of preventing any files under the standard ISO file structure from using any CD sectors that fall in the first 16 that start on a multiple of 16384 sectors (of 2048 bytes which is how a CD is written for those users who might not know). These number correspond to the first 64 blocks that start on a multiple of 65536 blocks (of 512 bytes) on a hard disk drive which corresponds to each RT-11 partition. Before I describe the details, note that the method is probably useful ONLY when the CD contains a limited number of large files. This is because the RT-11 directory on the CD must be mostly constructed by hand at the present time. The first step is to create an exact copy of a CD which has been burned with the desired DSK files. This image file can be created using PUTR to specify the exact size plus E11 and RT-11 to copy all the blocks from the CD to the image file. The critical reason that everything works seems to be a rather fortunate use of the mutually exclusive areas by the RT-11 file structure and the standard ISO file structure. While RT-11 requires the first 64 blocks (of 512 bytes) for the boot blocks and file structure, the standard ISO file structure uses the next 9 sectors from sector 16 to sector 24 (of 2048 bytes) which allows the RT-11 DSK files to start at block number 100 or sector number 25. All that is required (from the RT-11 file structure for the RT-11 DSK file that is in the first RT-11 partition) is to copy the RT-11 file structure (ONLY - i.e. just blocks zero to where the directory segments stop) to the start of the image file (which is initially identical to the ISO file structure CD image with the DSK files placed on the CD using standard CD burning software - in my case I used Nero Burning on a CD-RW so that I need not toss the CD). I produced that image file by using E11 and RT-11 to copy the CD-RW image to an existing file under Windows 98 SE. In my test, since I chose the first DSK file which started at block 100, the next step was to add 100 to the starting block number in each directory segment. The final step was to then select the monitor that I wanted to boot and write the correct boot programs into block zero and 2 through 5 of the image file. All of the extra steps were easily accomplished using E11 and RT-11. The following summary probably helps: RT-11 file structure: Blocks 0 to 63, Sectors 0 to 15 ISO file structure: Blocks 64 to 99, Sectors 16 to 24 RT-11 files: Blocks 100 to 65535 for partition zero ISO files: Sectors 25 to end of CD To create an RT-11 bootable CD, I copied the original CD image to a Windows 98 SE file on the hard disk. I then copied did an INIT DU0:/VOLUME under RT-11 after which is copied blocks 106, 107, 108, 109, 110 and 111 to blocks 6,7,8,9,10,11. The SIPP was used to add 100 (144 octal) to the fifth word in blocks 6, 8 and 10. The last step was to use the RT-11 command COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: I then had to use the "Burn Image" option under Nero Burning to transfer the complete file back to the CD (after I had erased the files of course) since I do not have any software to write just the first 3 CD sectors. One other aspect is also permitted under RT-11. Since every RT-11 directory segment contains the starting block number in the fifth word, it is possible to have the ISO file that is a bootable RT-11 image of some device referenced both by each file AND as a single DSK file starting with a new directory segment at the end of all the individual files. In my actual test example, there were FOUR bootable DSK files under the ISO file structure (within RT-11 partition zero). The first 3 RT-11 directory segments (starting in block 6 of the CD) contained file headers for 206 files. An additional directory segment was then added (manually one word at a time with SIPP) which had an empty area starting at block 100 with sufficient space for the FOUR bootable DSK files. CREATE was then used to set up the file headers one at a time. Obviously RT-11 is being "fooled", but it does work! The net result is that it is possible to use the same files under BOTH the standard ISO file structure AND the RT-11 file structure. While all of the above was done on a Pentium system running Windows 98 SE, Nero Burning, Ersatz-11, PUTR and RT-11, I am confident that other operating systems and software utilities would also be successful. The actual concepts are really very simple. Implementation of the test case did take almost a week since I made a lot of mistakes along the way. But at this point, I could duplicate a second test in a few hours. If there are any questions, I will be glad to answer them. I do have one request. Does anyone know how or if it might be possible to write a program that can take the image of the CD after it is copied to a file on the hard disk and copy all the data to a second slightly bigger file. The key requirement would be that the blocks at multiples of 65536 (where RT-11 partitions start - actually 64 blocks in each of the 20 possible RT-11 partitions) would be left empty. I would imagine that a simple FORTRAN program could do this if the ISO file structure is known since all that would be required would be to change those parameters which specify the sector number where the file starts - AND move the associated file up in the CD image in the destination file so that 16 sectors starting at multiples of 16384 sectors are left empty. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From wonko at 4amlunch.net Mon Mar 3 21:41:00 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Dumpster Diving Goodies In-Reply-To: <000001c2e01c$04d6b040$7d00a8c0@george> References: <000001c2e01c$04d6b040$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20030304033745.GA1492@MIKE> On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 07:52:15AM -0500, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > modem, thus allowing DEC access to the computer. What color is the key? i've got one. the key it came with is blue. ;) > Also, I have one that I have no use for, if anyone wants it. I've heard > they run some kind of sync DECnet on the modem side. know anything else about them? i wouldn't mind toying with mine. who knows, maybe even get it working. ;) -brian -- "I AM NOT CHRIS ROCK!" --Dave Chappelle From red at bears.org Mon Mar 3 22:12:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Bernoulli 10+10 Message-ID: Hey, guys. I'm having trouble turning up information on the old Bernoulli 10 MB drives---the ones that used 8" media---that isn't mostly rumor and innuendo. Anybody want to take a stab at positively confirming or denying any or all of the following? 1) The Bernoulli 10+10 uses a custom interface. I need the correct controller card for my PC (or better, my Mac). 2) The Bernoulli 10+10 uses a SASI interface. I still need the correct controller card for my PC (or better, my Mac). 3) The Bernoulli 10+10 will work on any classic SCSI controller. I need the correct cable magic. (Describing the correct cable magic earns bonus points) Thanks ok bear From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 3 22:40:02 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030302084854.00bc69a8@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 02 March 2003 08:51 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England > > >I'm on it - I'm maybe 2 hours away from there so I can pick up, > assuming a) > >I can get it in the garage and b) my girlfriend doesn't kill me :) > > Top chap - I'd pretty well decided it was too far away for me to > realistically collect, seeing as how I don't have an estate car > or similar. It's all in the garage, complete with a DECWriter II and DECWriter III. I have to preen at this point and say that was the best bit of car packing I've ever done - *nothing* moved on the way home, and those Lake District roads leave a lot to be desired. Had to take the cover off one of the DECwriters to get it in the back though; thanks to DEC for welding the bloody legs on the stands of those things, and thanks to VW for giving the Passat estate a big load area :) Anyway; the haul included MINC with 2 modules and the following boards: M8012 boot board M8043 DLV11 4 channel MUX for console etc. M7954 IBV11 IEC/IEEE interface M8029 RXV21 RX02 controller M8044 MSV11 RAM board M7270 (I think) 11/23 CPU RX02 twin set Manuals including 'Unpacking MINC' and 'Using MINC' plus programming guides etc 3 years worth of MINC newsletter from V1 #1 VT100 tech ref. RX02 user guide Original system and demo disks plus PASCAL and FORTRAN disks Full schematics. All in all, that's a pretty good haul! (I'm a poet, etc :) The only thing that's been powered up recently was one of the DECWriters, and the magic smoke escaped from the print head apparently, but considering all of this has been stored in an outbuilding that used to be a milking shed 20 years ago I think it's all lasted quite well. First thing to do will be a full dismantle and clean I think...... Pix soon. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From pennyfar at hotmail.com Mon Mar 3 22:40:26 2003 From: pennyfar at hotmail.com (John Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: Draftmaster II Message-ID: cctalk@classiccmp.org-- I have some experience/documentation on the Draftmaster II, if it would be of any assistance to you. Cheers . . . John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Click here for more. From david at bendixqld.com.au Mon Mar 3 22:40:30 2003 From: david at bendixqld.com.au (bendix) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: ibm 9332, alpha micro Message-ID: <5D071DE15BD7D21197A800A0C9ADF61909CDC1@BENDIXNT> I am looking for a AM 2000 I collect old alpha micro computers. Do you know where I can find 1? David Gage From JJJACKWHIT at aol.com Mon Mar 3 22:40:35 2003 From: JJJACKWHIT at aol.com (JJJACKWHIT@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: AT Message-ID: <16b.1b7a0860.2b95657e@aol.com> I have an Olivetti M-18P-2 portable (in a carry-around case) which was built by Olivetti before they became involved with AT&T. It has a hard drive (Western Digital), floppy drive and built in 9" monitor (mono). I have the original disks/software (PC-DOS 3.1) and software disks (Wordstar, Calcstar, Spellstar, etc). Is anyone interested in this machine? From vhall at infowest.com Mon Mar 3 22:40:40 2003 From: vhall at infowest.com (Victor Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: RDRAM chips to give Message-ID: <009601c2e1f9$6f400c90$0300a8c0@victorspc> I have two RDRAM chips, 128 mgs? ea out of a Dell Dimension 8200 that need a good home. You can re-imburse costs of mailing. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 3 22:43:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:01 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Are you sure it's the disks? Yes, BUT.... > I have VMS 5.5-2 and it would not install on >my /90 at all. I don't remember now how it behaved, but it definitely did >not work. Since I was using real RZ25s and an RRD46, there's no way it >could've been due to third-party drives. > >Either Megan or Allison told me that 5.5-4 was the minimum for a /90. I >ended up having to get my hands on 7.1 media, which worked just fine. I think this is the other problem. I was just getting ready to post asking what the minimum version was. I put a BA353 on the system with a RZ29 in it. I was able to restore VMS055.B from the V1 Hobbyist CD, but it won't boot off of the RZ29, and I just realize that the V1 Hobbyist CD uses V6.1's Standalone backup. OK, I've got a solution, I just hooked the BA353 and external 4x CD-ROM up to the VAXstation 4000-60 and the VAX/VMS V5.5 install is running :^) I just hope the V1 Hobbyist CD has the necessary parts of VAX/VMS to use DECnet and clustering (can anyone remember if that was part of the base install for VAX/VMS). For anyone wondering why on earth I'm trying to get such an old version of VMS running, I want to cluster the system with a MicroVAX II and I don't want to have to reload the RD54 (though I might have to in the long run). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From anheier at owt.com Mon Mar 3 22:55:01 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: hardware available Message-ID: More closets clean out. I have the following available: UDS-IS11 PC/ISA SCSI port card Buslogic BT-946C PCI SCSI port card Video card from SPARC 1+ Hard disk, Seagate ST31230N from SPARC 1+ $5 each + shipping or to the scrap yard next week. Thanks Norm From jss at subatomix.com Mon Mar 3 23:06:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again Message-ID: <13416288431.20030303230345@subatomix.com> Well, I finally got around to testing the PSU on my 11/34. I measured at the backplane connectors with no backplanes plugged in. Everything checks out except for the -5V and +20V. Accordingly, the LED at the bottom of the H745 brick (regulator 1) does not light. However, some of the other voltages coming from the H745 (according to the BA11-K FMPS) seem to be OK. Does anything in the machine even need -5V or +20V? If not, can I leave the bad brick in place? I have: KD11-EA, KY11-LB, DL11-W, MS11-JP, M7850 parity, DZ11-A, RK11-D. I'll be adding a RX11 at some point. Someone enlighten me, please. :-) I'm pretty sure I have a spare brick. Also: what are these signals on the 6-pin backplane mate-n-locks? - AC LO - DC LO Something I learned: If you have a H785 brick in your 11/34 BA11-KA cabinet, ignore what the 11/34 and KY11-LB manuals say about battery backup and the rotary power switch. You can indeed have a battery backup with a BA11-K, and the switch on the KY11-LB works as you think it should. You must connect the ribbon cable from the H785 to the corresponding connector on the KY11-LB, or the H785 won't work. You must NOT connect the one-wire connector from the H785 to P4(?) of the AC input box, or else your machine won't turn off, regardless of the rotary switch. Clear as mud? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Mar 3 23:09:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: SMD disk interface pinout/specs In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030303204845.01965fc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030303204845.01965fc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3416419269.20030303230556@subatomix.com> What are the differences between SMD-E and SMD-O? Are there other types of SMD? Where can I find more information on SMD? -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Mar 3 23:25:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again In-Reply-To: <13416288431.20030303230345@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Does anything in the machine even need -5V or +20V? If not, can I leave the > bad brick in place? I have: KD11-EA, KY11-LB, DL11-W, MS11-JP, M7850 parity, > DZ11-A, RK11-D. I'll be adding a RX11 at some point. Someone enlighten me, > please. :-) Something makes me think that the -5V might be needed for the Unibus, but I'm probably wrong. > I'm pretty sure I have a spare brick. > > Also: what are these signals on the 6-pin backplane mate-n-locks? > - AC LO > - DC LO Oooh, I know this one. They are set to a logical 'high' state when the AC voltage coming in or any of the output DC voltages are low, respectively. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From mross666 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 3 23:27:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: pdp-11/35 question... Message-ID: >>Any suggestions on building an 11/35... any other DEC boxes use the same >>power supply? I've a couple of 11/40 KD11-A backplanes, was >>thinking >>vaguely >I thought the 10.5" version of the 11/35 went into a BA11-K box, with > the >PSU across the back. The same box is used for the 10.5" version >of the 11/05, 11/10, 11/34. You would haev to select the right PSU bricks >for the memory your'e using -- you'd need a 20V regulator if you're fitting >core, for example. Tony, That's the bugger! You just gave me the clue: one of my pdp-15s had the power supply for the XVM-15 memory box robbed before I got it; 'they' wanted to keep it for spares for pdp-11s. (It used the same 'black box' regulator bricks). Getting the -15 running was a higher priority that keeping my 11/35 intact, so I 'sacrificed' the power supply from my 11/35 to power the pdp-15 memory. The remains of the old 11/35 chassis must be lurking in a corner, that's why I couldn't find it. This is good news, it means I'll be able to build a 10.5" 11/35 (which is what I want) out of the chassis of the 11/34 I just bought on ePay... :-) I had no idea if the chassis/PSU was even vaguely similar... memory failing! I will of course pay due attention to the regulators required. Thanks to all who replied Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From drido at optushome.com.au Mon Mar 3 23:38:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Bernoulli 10+10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030304162912.01047a94@mail.optushome.com.au> At 04:24 PM 3/4/03, you wrote: >Hey, guys. > >I'm having trouble turning up information on the old Bernoulli 10 MB >drives---the ones that used 8" media---that isn't mostly rumor and >innuendo. Anybody want to take a stab at positively confirming or denying >any or all of the following? > >1) The Bernoulli 10+10 uses a custom interface. I need the correct >controller card for my PC (or better, my Mac). I had one of these drives, it came with an 8 bit ISA card. It's a custom interface as far as I know. You also need the drivers for it unless you get the card with the boot rom on it. I think there was a also a card for the Tandy 2000. I don't think there was a Mac card for it, but I could be wrong. From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Mar 3 23:43:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: FS: Dec Gigi (VK100) Message-ID: I've got a DEC GiGi that appears to work, but has some cosmetic damage, and is missing a few keys. The keykaps are the same style as used on the Decwriter III, IV, and other DEC equipment. The missing keys are the 6-9 keys on the QWERTY section, PF1, PF2, and 9 on the numeric keypad. I've hooked it up to a monitor, and it gives an output as I type on it, so it probably works just fine. $5 + shipping from Lafayette, IN. I take cashiers check/money order, or paypal. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Mar 3 23:49:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: pdp-11/35 question... In-Reply-To: <200303032240.h23MeHiY007717@spies.com> References: <200303032240.h23MeHiY007717@spies.com> Message-ID: <1046756636.2210.6.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Mon, 2003-03-03 at 14:40, Al Kossow wrote: > Any suggestions on building an 11/35... any other DEC boxes use the same > power supply? > I believe that the 11/35 uses the H750 power supply which is different from the other CPUs mentioned (ie the 11/34 and the 11/05 & 11/10 all of which mount in a BA11-K box if they're the 10.5" variety). The 11/35 is contained in a BA11-DA or DB box. I *think* the 11/35 backplanes and such should be able to be mounted in a BA11-K style box. The only difference is that it would be deeper (same as the others mentioned) than an original since the power supply sits in back rather than along the side. An added benefit is that you'd be able to add more than a single system unit (which is all that will fit in an 11/35) for I/O. > -- > > The 11/34 is the most similar to an 11/35 -- TTFN - Guy From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 3 23:50:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Bernoulli 10+10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > Hey, guys. > > I'm having trouble turning up information on the old Bernoulli 10 MB > drives---the ones that used 8" media---that isn't mostly rumor and > innuendo. Anybody want to take a stab at positively confirming or denying > any or all of the following? I believe that #1 is correct and that I peddled one to Sellam perhaps six months ago. - don > 1) The Bernoulli 10+10 uses a custom interface. I need the correct > controller card for my PC (or better, my Mac). > > 2) The Bernoulli 10+10 uses a SASI interface. I still need the correct > controller card for my PC (or better, my Mac). > > 3) The Bernoulli 10+10 will work on any classic SCSI controller. I need > the correct cable magic. (Describing the correct cable magic earns bonus > points) > > Thanks > > ok > bear From classiccmp at karg.org Tue Mar 4 02:43:00 2003 From: classiccmp at karg.org (classiccmp@karg.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question References: Message-ID: <000e01c2e229$a670ebf0$2106080a@internal.net> > Either Megan or Allison told me that 5.5-4 was the minimum for a /90. This link: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/supportchart.html shows which version is required. For a 4000/90 it appears to be 5.5-2HW (i.e. 5.5-2 plus a hardware patch). From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 4 03:33:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question In-Reply-To: <000e01c2e229$a670ebf0$2106080a@internal.net> Message-ID: <000001c2e230$9120aae0$cb87fe3e@athlon> >shows which version is required. For a 4000/90 it appears >to be 5.5-2HW (i.e. 5.5-2 plus a hardware patch). Except I think 5.5-2HW came out *before* 5.5-2. The later "patch" was V5.5-2H4. A somewhat confusing time for all, IIRC. So 5.5-2 should be fine. Note, however, that the reason given for loading this old a version was cluster interoperability with the other system's V5.5-2. V6.2 will in fact interoperate with V5.5-2. It's not supported for anything other than a migration - which means it will work fine for you! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jwstephens at cox.net Tue Mar 4 04:39:00 2003 From: jwstephens at cox.net (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: SMD disk interface pinout/specs References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030303204845.01965fc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> <3416419269.20030303230556@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E648120.94A9326A@cox.net> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > What are the differences between SMD-E and SMD-O? Are there other types of > SMD? Where can I find more information on SMD? > i think you may be referring to the normal density and high density versions. If I recall original SMD had about 26K / track. EMD drives from CDC had twice that. density. The main thing that was a problem was that there was originally a chip that would do CRC generation in the original 7400 series IC line. This chip in the same circuitry could not keep up with the higher speed SMD and demanded a newer chip. I recall that most designers went with ECC chips in newer designs, rather than the original CRC, as a result of newer logic on the market then. Our original design at a company I worked for was out in around 1981 or 1982. If I recall the newer SMD designs were out around 1984 or so. We did not support them due to having a very small market to support, and low demand for further updates. Jim > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Mar 4 07:47:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: test Don't read. References: <3.0.6.16.20030303092226.4d1f8096@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030303132940.5137652a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E64AE57.C6E78286@comcast.net> I read it too, but didn't want to admit it... :) 20 messages? Oh yeah, it's just you. The list has averaged about, oh 75+ per day for the past few days... Joe wrote: > > Now I KNOW you guys don't read the subject lines! :-) > > Is it just me or has there been very little traffic on this list lately? I've only gotten about 20 messages in the last 2 1/2 days. > > Joe > > At 09:21 AM 3/3/03 -0800, you wrote: > >Too late I already read it... > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe" > >To: ; > >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:22 AM > >Subject: test Don't read. > > > > > >> Test. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From ceo at coherent-logic.com Tue Mar 4 08:41:01 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor References: <001d01c2e1c7$147ef000$93fd623e@tassone> Message-ID: <006001c2e25b$b32cbc70$8500000a@music> Hi, The RD54 (Maxtor XT-2190) hard drive is an old ST-506 relic, and is unreliable at best. I have a VAXstation 2000 with an RD54, and most of the time the drive won't even spin up. When it does, it makes sounds the same as you are describing here. I went in search for a replacement, but found most resellers are getting $300+ for the RD54, as it is rare. I would reccommend looking for RD53s, RD52s, etc., or better yet, find yourself a Q-bus SCSI controller. SCSI drives are cheap, and quite more reliable than anything you'll find in ST-506. You could also go the DSSI route, if you want nothing to do with *nix, or get a KDA50 and go SDI, if you have the patience to deal with its many quirks. You may also be able to use non-DEC ST-506 drives, but be warned: AFAIK, the only VAX that can perform a low-level format on its own ST-506 drive is the VAXstation/uVAX 2000. It allows you to choose one of the DEC models, or enter your own drive geometry, IIRC. Hope this helps, John +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franco Tassone" To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 1:54 PM Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor > Hi all, > > unfortunatelly one of my two RD54 hd (by Maxtor) in my mvaxII kept doing > strange sounds at startup. It isn't coming on line as before, now it takes a > lot of time while a continuous noisy sound comes from it, and after it seems > sufferig of read problems at bootup. > Any info/advices about RD54 and it's strange sounds will be greatly > appreciated. > ... > Franco Tassone From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Mar 4 10:04:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Monitor screen width adjustment? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030304155343.00b88e10@slave> Hello again, I've got a Sinclair (well, Amstrad really, but it has Sinclair printed on the front) monitor here, which claims to be a QL monitor. To the extent that it has a captive QL-specific signal lead... However, the display is too wide, and marginally extends past the bezel in both directions; only by about 1/4 of one character or so, but just enough to be seriously annoying. So, today, I whizzed the back off to adjust it - but there's no "horizontal size" pot :( There are trimpots for V.size, H.hold and Sub-bright. There's adjusters for focus & brightness (or maybe contrast, it was hard to tell since it was simply labelled "Screen". There's also externally accessible controls for V.hold, brightness & contrast. On the back of the tube, there's trimpots to adjust red & blue intensity (with two pots per colour). It looks like there ought to be a green pot as well, but there's no trimmer there, just a fixed resistor. So, is it the case that I cannot adjust the h.size? Is it a case of go rooting around looking for the component (a resistor, I assume) which sets this, and replace it with a pot? Any advice appreciated. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Mar 4 10:16:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Intellivision _made_ PCs... Message-ID: <200303041608.LAA18853@wordstock.com> This is from the Intellivision newsletter: INTELLIVISION LORE FROM THE FILES OF THE BLUE SKY RANGERS: THE INTV PC-XT COMPUTER Most Intellivision buffs are familiar with the three attempts Mattel Electronics made at producing a home computer: the Intellivision Keyboard Component, the Entertainment Computer System (ECS), and the Aquarius Home Computer System. Less well known is INTV Corp.'s foray into the computer business: the INTV-PC/XT. Sold only through a 1986 brochure to those on the Intellivision catalog mailing list, the computer was touted as "From the makers of Intellivision ...a name you know. We've been around awhile. We manufacture Intellivision, which brought a new standard of quality to home computer games in 1979. The INTV-PC/XT does the same for personal computers today." The brochure featured a half-dozen cartoons by Blue Sky Ranger Keith Robinson (TRON Solar Sailer) of average people using the computer to better their lives. The INTV-PC/XT sold for $999.95 plus $25.00 shipping and handling. It had switchable clock speeds: 4.7 MHz (same as the original IBM-PC) and 8 MHz. It came with 640K RAM, IBM PC-DOS, a monochrome monitor, and two 5.25" floppy disk drives. In reality, the computer was simply another of the nearly identical IBM-compatibles that a dozen generic companies were selling in the mid-1980s. INTV didn't manufacture it, they just put their label on it. The brochure - and the use of "XT" in the name of the computer - were a bit misleading. The brochure claimed that "the INTV-PC/XT is a true IBM-PC/XT compatible." Since the IBM-PC/XT (unlike the IBM-PC) came with a built-in hard drive, it could be inferred that the INTV-PC/XT also came with a hard drive. It didn't. In 1986, over 300,000 people were on the Intellivision mailing list. How many bought an INTV-PC/XT? We don't really know. If any of you out there owned one, we'd love to hear from you! Did you own an INTV-PC/XT? Drop us a line! > newsletter@intellivisionlives.com From kth at srv.net Tue Mar 4 10:21:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor References: <001d01c2e1c7$147ef000$93fd623e@tassone> <006001c2e25b$b32cbc70$8500000a@music> Message-ID: <3E64D7C1.8000508@srv.net> John Willis wrote: >Hi, > >The RD54 (Maxtor XT-2190) hard drive is an old ST-506 relic, and is unreliable at best. I have a VAXstation 2000 with an RD54, and >most of the time the drive won't even spin up. When it does, it makes sounds the same as you are describing here. I went in search >for a replacement, but found most resellers are getting $300+ for the RD54, as it is rare. I would reccommend looking for RD53s, >RD52s, etc., or better yet, find yourself a Q-bus SCSI controller. SCSI drives are cheap, and quite more reliable than anything >you'll find in ST-506. > In my experience, anything but an RD54 is likely to be a problem. The RD54 usually had a two or three times longer lifetime than the other RD drives. That is probably why RD54's are in such demand. If you want something for long-term usage, I'd really recommend getting a SCSI interface, then you have a much larger choice of media. > >You could also go the DSSI route, if you want nothing to do with *nix, or get a KDA50 and go SDI, if you have the patience to deal >with its many quirks. > >You may also be able to use non-DEC ST-506 drives, but be warned: AFAIK, the only VAX that can perform a low-level format on its own >ST-506 drive is the VAXstation/uVAX 2000. It allows you to choose one of the DEC models, or enter your own drive geometry, IIRC. > >Hope this helps, >John From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Mar 4 10:27:01 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Monitor screen width adjustment? Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBF7@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > I've got a Sinclair (well, Amstrad really, but it has > Sinclair printed on the front) monitor here, which > claims to be a QL monitor. To the extent that it has a > captive QL-specific signal lead... > However, the display is too wide, and marginally > extends past the bezel in both directions; only by > about 1/4 of one character or so, but just enough > to be seriously annoying. > So, is it the case that I cannot adjust the h.size? > Is it a case of go rooting around looking for the > component (a resistor, I assume) which sets this, > and replace it with a pot? On all the Amsturd monitors I've had the width is fixed and can not be easily adjusted. It's not a pot or resistor that you're looking for, it's a coil, usually about 1/2" to 1" in diameter and with a ferrite I core. If you're lucky it will have an adjustable core but I have yet to see one in an Amsturd. If you find the coil (you can tell because bringing a metal tool up to it will change the width/centering) you may get away with glueing a lump of ferrous or non ferrous metal to it (one will make the picture wider and one narrower, I can't remember which off hand). If this then offsets the picture a small permanent magnet can be used, on the width coil, to pull it back. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 10:40:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: <3E64D7C1.8000508@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030304163650.68416.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Handy wrote: > In my experience, anything but an RD54 is likely to be a problem. > The RD54 usually had a two or three times longer lifetime than > the other RD drives. That is probably why RD54's are in such > demand. They were also the largest DEC-supplied drive and were useful as system disks up into the early versions of VMS 6.x (maybe not officially, but practically - I have either 6.0 or 6.1 on an RD54 that a friend of mine built for me; dunno what he had to leave out). I'm glad that I don't have to buy any (but I might consider swapping one for a Qbus SCSI controller ;-) > If you want something for long-term usage, I'd really recommend > getting a SCSI interface, then you have a much larger choice of > media. Indeed, but if you are into vintage hardware, not always practical (the uVAX-2000 comes to mind). > >You may also be able to use non-DEC ST-506 drives, but be warned: AFAIK, > > the only VAX that can perform a low-level format on its own > > ST-506 drive is the VAXstation/uVAX 2000. It allows you to choose one > > of the DEC models, or enter your own drive geometry, IIRC. My experience with the uVAX2K ROM formatter is that you can *not* randomly specify geometry. You can low-level format a DEC drive, but I'm not positive you can take a drive from a PC that has never seen DEC use and turn it into a DEC drive (bad block table, ident tracks and the like). You _can_ do all these things with the Field Service formatter on a Qbus uVAX and an RQDX3. I have taken several Seagate, Maxtor and Miniscribe drives from PeeCees and made them useful to DEC controllers with the FS tape. Given that it takes a *looong* time to load, I'm interested in exploring the XXDP/VTserver route and a PDP-11 CPU board. That might be less hassle. Dunno yet. -ethan From dundas at caltech.edu Tue Mar 4 10:42:01 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives In-Reply-To: <20030303184305.53248.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: After digging a bit more in the manual, indeed I find the confirming quote: "NOTE: A disk cartridge must be installed to spin up and operate the disk drive. The fixed disk does not spin up and run without a removable cartridge in place. The spin-up cycle takes approximately 1 minute. It involves spinning the disk platters up to operating speed, cleaning the internal air system, loading the read/write heads, and performing a self-test." Looks like I need to find an additional (possibly sacrificial) cartridge. Any help? Thanks, John At 10:43 AM -0800 3/3/03, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- "John A. Dundas III" wrote: >> At 10:29 AM -0800 2/19/03, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >You will not be able to spin it up without the removable cartridge. >> >> Is this strictly true? > >That was my experience in 1987. I used that fact to get the vendor to >ship me a (free) cartridge so I could spin up the drive and get the 11/725 >working. > >-ethan From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Mar 4 10:49:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030304113520.009d2930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's one some of the collectors in Germany might find desirable? Eltec Elektronik Eurocom 1 inkl. Geh?use und http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3011114207&category=187 Year 1979 CPU M6802 Display 7-segments Busconnector for System experiments User I/O connection Users wire wrap aerea RAM 128 Bite ROM HCL monitor ? kB Interfaces PIA, ACIA, parallel Case style Single board Computer Eltec Elektronik Eurocom 1 inkl. Geh?use, Handb?cher, Ascii Tastatur, "Grafikkarte" und Anschlusskabel. Manche werden das Teil noch kennen, es wurde als Lerncomputer verwendet und in sehr geringer St?ckzahl produziert. Eine f?r Computerverh?ltnisse wirklich antike Rarit?t ! Neben dem hervorragend gefertigten Geh?use und diversen Anschlusskabeln sind noch 3 Handb?cher (Reproduktionen) inkl. Trainingsunterlagen vorhanden. Das System war normalerweise nur als lose Platine erh?ltlich und dazu gab es noch verschiedene "Zubeh?rplatinen", ein Netzteil, die ASCII Tastatur u.a. - hier wird alles komplett und zusammengebaut angeboten. Ger?t wurde mangels eines speziellen Netzkabels (kleine 2 Pol Buchse) und entsprechenden Kenntnissen nicht getestet. Verk?ufer versicherte mir allerdings, da? das Ger?t tadellos funktioniert. Trotzdem keine Garantie auf Funktion. Anschlie?end noch ein paar Daten aus dem Netz : From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 10:50:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Draftmaster II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030304164717.70643.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lee wrote: > cctalk@classiccmp.org-- > > I have some experience/documentation on the Draftmaster II, > if it would be of any assistance to you. > > Cheers . . . John Sure... what have you got? I've been to the HP site and gotten what little they have. I expect that most of the software is bundled with the application anyway (I need to plot from AutoCAD and OrCAD). I still need to pick up some pens. Someone on the list made an offer of a box of some used ones, but I've lost the original e-mail. -ethan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 4 10:59:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Measurements (was: Let the witch trials begin! ) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030220203526.00a12540@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3E64E923.3624.7279BBE2@localhost> > > I remember in the days after the space shuttle accident, I saw > > on CNN, that they were displaying how many times faster than > > the speed of light that the space shuttle was going. Yes, they > > actually said speed of light. And I was surprised at how long > > they let it run like that before it was removed, hours at least. > > Just shows you can't believe everything you read, see on TV, etc. > > I was also surprised I never heard anyone else mentioning it. > Unfortunately, you see increasing numbers of errors/misstatements > like that these days. Proofreading is becoming a lost art. It is > only successfully done by humans and they tend to be rather > expensive. As a consequence, newspapers and other printed media > are full of misused words - albeit correctly spelled - and not so > good grammar. I think that is what you witnessed, also. Well, I found the whole confusion with measurements at that day quite amuseing. For example, the height, where the shuttle broke apart, was given by nasa in Meter, and thus displayed as such. Now comentators did try to convert this into miles or feet and came up with a quite variey of results - from a mere 60,000 ft, up to 90 miles ... Even more, the cation moved at some poit to a total senseless amount of feet, back to kilometer, and later on to miles of course evvery time with quite some truncation. Another light to the logic/arithmetic functionality of news people was the repeted mention that the wreckage was spilled out over 'several hundret square miles' ... at a time when the charts already showed a trail of way more than 500 miles. Every 3ed class scool kid should come to the conclusion that even several ten thousand is not to high... Anyway. H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Mar 4 11:40:01 2003 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E64E441.8070201@arrl.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Stupid question, how to I go about getting the cover off of the 5 1/4" bay, > and am I supposed to have another piece of plastic to go there? If it > requires another piece of plastic (that I don't have), I'll just hook the > drive up internally long enough to do the install. > That entire right front quarter panel can be slid (nudged) up and off vertically. I'd recommend removal of the flip door first to avoid damaging it (youll want to keep the original door as it has the unit serial num sticker). But then this is all moot if you don't have the correct panel to swap. Went thru this swap between my /60 and /90a a few weeks back due to a thunderstorm that sent my /90a to VAXheaven. -nick o houston, tx From patrick at evocative.com Tue Mar 4 11:43:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II Keyboard (only) Available Message-ID: A neighbor gave me a keyboard for a TRS-80 Model II, but I don't have the rest of the beast, so this item is available to he or she with the best sob story for the cost of shipping. Keyboard is a bit dirty (as would be expected from lengthy storage in a clean basement), no major blemishes, all key caps in place, none sticks/good feel. I do not know if it is working otherwise, and have no facility to test. Please reply off-list to patrick at evocative dot com. From patrick at evocative.com Tue Mar 4 12:00:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Monitor screen width adjustment? In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBF7@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Message-ID: > If you find the coil (you can tell because bringing a > metal tool up to it will change the width/centering) you Uh, hopefully I'm just stating the obvious, but poking around with metal tools inside of a monitor needs to be done carefully... stay away from the flyback transformer, the anode terminal on the tube (the one on the side of it), and the wire between them. There can be very significant voltages here even when the monitor isn't powered up, and even after long periods in storage. Thanks to a wise high school electric shop teacher (and an episode with a cranky RCA B&W TV), I'm also in the habit of keeping the other hand off of any other part of the monitor or anything that might make you a path to ground, especially a path through one arm to the other (metal desk, electric tool, etc.). Once bitten, twice shy. --Patrick From emu at ecubics.com Tue Mar 4 12:03:01 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: FS: Dec Gigi (VK100) References: Message-ID: <3E64E9F2.8040308@ecubics.com> Hi Patrick, I would take it. You could use my FedEx account for shipping ... cheers, emanuel Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a DEC GiGi that appears to work, but has some cosmetic damage, > and is missing a few keys. The keykaps are the same style as used on the > Decwriter III, IV, and other DEC equipment. The missing keys are the 6-9 > keys on the QWERTY section, PF1, PF2, and 9 on the numeric keypad. > > I've hooked it up to a monitor, and it gives an output as I type on it, so > it probably works just fine. > > $5 + shipping from Lafayette, IN. I take cashiers check/money order, or > paypal. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From emu at ecubics.com Tue Mar 4 12:12:01 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: FS: Dec Gigi (VK100) References: Message-ID: <3E64EBF6.5010501@ecubics.com> should go to via PM, but ;-) From mcb242 at psu.edu Tue Mar 4 12:15:00 2003 From: mcb242 at psu.edu (Marlin Bates, IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed Message-ID: Hello, I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY appreciate it. Thanks -Marlin From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 4 12:41:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030304113520.009d2930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3E6500DB.2814.72D6608E@localhost> > Here's one some of the collectors in Germany might find desirable? > Eltec Elektronik Eurocom 1 inkl. Geh?use und > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3011114207&category=187 Nice configuration. The computer is not as rare as he states ... More like a Kim or so, at least over here in Germany, the Eurocom machines had a quite large followship. Still, I like it. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From root at parse.com Tue Mar 4 12:46:52 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Wanted: iUP201 modules In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030303173051.11bfcda0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 03, 2003 05:30:51 PM Message-ID: <200303040451.XAA32617@parse.com> Joe sez... > > Hi Robert, > > Do you have any info on the internal hardware for the 201? I have one that's dead. No, unfortunately. The only hack I did was to upgrade the RAM, and even then I used the wrong chips (64k instead of 16k) so I tied one of the address lines to ground :-) Cheers, -RK > Joe > > At 12:01 PM 3/3/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Just resurrected my Intel iUP201 Universal Programmer, > >and am writing the control software for it (which will be > >available for free). > > > >I'm wondering if anyone out there has any modules for it > >that they want to get rid of? I currently have the > >2708/2716/2732...27128 module and the 27128/27256 module. > >I've also upgraded the RAM memory on the programmer. > > > >I'm in Ottawa/Ontario/Canada, but will pay shipping worldwide. > >These things are pretty light. > > > >Thanks, > >-RK > > > >-- > >Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! > >Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > >Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com > -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 4 12:47:12 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <10303032104.ZM7654@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Peter Turnbull > Sent: 03 March 2003 21:05 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England > > > On Mar 3, 19:23, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > At 11:52 02/03/2003, Witchy wrote: > > > >The garage was built in 1910 > > >and seems to be wide enough for an Austin 7 :) > > > > Snap! My garage will just fit the width of a Ford Granada (1" spare > either > > side of the wing mirrors), but not the length... The Rover 820 > completely > > defeated it, as would the Senator. Hey ho. Just have to fill it with > old > > computers instead, I think :) > > Well, you saw what I did with mine :-) I'm desperately trying not to do that! MINC was an exception, I hope....currently the printers have a home under the big shelves which contain anything from spare wood to monitors sealed in bin bags, but MINC is still roaming free. Today I think I'll have to put up shelves to accommodate the VMS 'grey wall' that's been floor stacked since I put 'em all there a couple of years ago.... -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From arayak at cox.net Tue Mar 4 12:47:16 2003 From: arayak at cox.net (Araya Kositkun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: subscription info, dec equipment Message-ID: <000a01c2e271$6a6faa40$0a02a8c0@araya> When is the next TRW Swap meet will be and where is it? Thanks, Araya From dwsutherland at eudoramail.com Tue Mar 4 12:47:21 2003 From: dwsutherland at eudoramail.com (Don Sutherland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: WD-1002-05 hard disk controller boards Message-ID: Hello David... While searching for the WD-1002-05 hard disk controller on Google, I read a recent post which indicated that you may have some of these cards available. If so, I'd like to obtain one or more of these cards. Could you please provide any information with regard to the availability / cost of these cards? Thank you Don Sutherland dwsutherland@eudoramail.com Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com From bridget.harris at charter.net Tue Mar 4 12:47:25 2003 From: bridget.harris at charter.net (Birdget Harris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5363 II Message-ID: How much did the 5363 cost? I've been trying to find out what a fair price for one is to no avail. From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Mar 4 12:49:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor References: <001d01c2e1c7$147ef000$93fd623e@tassone> Message-ID: <200303041846.NAA3428256@shell.TheWorld.com> >The RD54 (Maxtor XT-2190) hard drive is an old ST-506 relic, and is >unreliable at best. I have a VAXstation 2000 with an RD54, and most of >the time the drive won't even spin up. When it does, it makes sounds the >same as you are describing here. I went in search for a replacement, but >found most resellers are getting $300+ for the RD54, as it is rare. I >would reccommend looking for RD53s, RD52s, etc., or better yet, find >yourself a Q-bus SCSI controller. SCSI drives are cheap, and quite more >reliable than anything you'll find in ST-506. Avoid the RD53 at all costs... it is the most problematic of the RD series drives. The RD54 in my experience is the most reliable, and I have a number of them in machines still working. Yes, going to SCSI would be nice, but you can't put one in your VAXstation 2000... and the qbus controller for SCSI disks is expensive... check out the auctions on ebay. The two most recent I've seen were $130 and $240 for UC08s. Some of the other SCSI controllers from third-party vendors are even more... >You could also go the DSSI route, if you want nothing to do with *nix, or >get a KDA50 and go SDI, if you have the patience to deal with its many >quirks. Or you could try ESDI... I have a couple of machines with the Andromeda ESDC controller and hitachi DK515-78 drives. They work just fine with MSCP device drivers... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 4 12:58:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Sellam on TeeVee In-Reply-To: <200303021507.KAA3027689@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E6504FD.9253.72E68510@localhost> > >Thanks! It was fun as always. Expect more similar segments in the > >future. > Could you let us know in the future when you will be on? I still > haven't caught your most recent appearance... (If you did let > people know, then I guess I missed it). It was on a quite short notice. I've been with him that day. Unlike a lot of other shows they realy tried to understand what they are doing/showing. Well, ok, beeing TeeVeePeople, their producer screwed the anouncement ... 't was something like 'A rare pice from the Apple collection' or so ... Anyway, would be a lot of fun to get more classic computing on the net ... maybe a classic computing minute every week? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Mar 4 12:59:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: FS: Dec Gigi (VK100) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a DEC GiGi that appears to work, but has some cosmetic damage, > and is missing a few keys. The keykaps are the same style as used on the > Decwriter III, IV, and other DEC equipment. The missing keys are the 6-9 > keys on the QWERTY section, PF1, PF2, and 9 on the numeric keypad. > > I've hooked it up to a monitor, and it gives an output as I type on it, so > it probably works just fine. > > $5 + shipping from Lafayette, IN. I take cashiers check/money order, or > paypal. It's been taken, and the winner has been notified. Thanks for the interest! Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rborsuk at colourfull.com Tue Mar 4 13:00:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5363 II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <019BFC7A-4E73-11D7-95D4-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> I got one for a case of beer and I've got someone who's giving me another (just have to go pick it up). Unless I'm mistaken, they don't have alot of value. I can't tell you if they're fun yet though. I haven't had a chance to explore yet. Rob On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, at 01:35 PM, Birdget Harris wrote: > How much did the 5363 cost? I've been trying to find out what a fair > price > for one is to no avail. From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Mar 4 13:07:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:02 2005 Subject: Sellam on TeeVee In-Reply-To: <3E6504FD.9253.72E68510@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 4, 03 07:56:45 pm Message-ID: <200303041859.NAA01854@wordstock.com> And thusly Hans Franke spake: > > Anyway, would be a lot of fun to get more classic computing > on the net ... maybe a classic computing minute every week? And showing new software/hardware that is being developed for classic computers! Cheers, Bryan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 4 13:22:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. In-Reply-To: <016b01c2d9fc$a8f91f80$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E650A92.12702.72FC53F3@localhost> > The Kim-1 is another favorite of mine. I had one back when they were new and > mounted it in an aluminum chassis with breadboard sockets on the top. I > wire-wrapped an expansion board, adding another 1K of RAM, and extended the > cabling for the cassette I/F to micro jacks on the side of the chassis. > Then, with it all fixed up, I sold it. I've been kicking myself regularly > since. I have a VIM and a SYM-1, but am still looking for a "reasonably > priced" Kim-1. I'd love to trade a Kim for a SYM hans -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 4 13:32:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed References: Message-ID: <006401c2e283$c4d0b300$0400fea9@game> http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/forever/ get that software. Amiga explorer will send data between any windows pc to the amiga using a common null modem cable. You just drag an ADF image file on your windows screen to the desired amiga floppy drive icon and it transfers the image to disk. Can use serial or networks for transfers. Its easy to setup. http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/explorer/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlin Bates, IV" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:11 PM Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed > Hello, > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an > Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the > net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. > If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY > appreciate it. > > Thanks > > -Marlin From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 4 13:43:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: <200303041846.NAA3428256@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <000001c2e285$ccaaab60$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Avoid the RD53 at all costs... it is the most problematic of > the RD series drives. The RD54 in my experience is the most > reliable, and I have a number of them in machines still working. I never had enough RD53s to form a statistically valid opinion. Never had a problem with RD54s (and I guess I had maybe a dozen running in the lab). > Yes, going to SCSI would be nice, but you can't put one in > your VAXstation 2000... Unless you use Wolfgang Moeller's modified ROMs - then I believe that SCSI will work. (IIRC the modified VS/UV2K ROMs also incoroporate the >1GB fix ... but it's been a long time since I looked). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From chuck at mail.schillernet.us Tue Mar 4 13:45:01 2003 From: chuck at mail.schillernet.us (Chuck Swiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Calcomp 970 plotter In-Reply-To: <200303040451.XAA32617@parse.com> References: <200303040451.XAA32617@parse.com> Message-ID: <1046806928.1039.7.camel@dell1> Anybody know what the 'brain' is in this govt auction might be? http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=164994 Don't suppose it might be an embedded pdp8 ;)) Just wishful thinking... Google turns up nothing but pens and supplies. --Chuck From rborsuk at colourfull.com Tue Mar 4 13:46:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: King of the string has Stringy floppy day Message-ID: <88893202-4E79-11D7-95D4-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Hi All, Thanks to Glen I now have info on my A&J Microdrive. On another note, I have just received in today a Stringy floppy for the Commodore 64. This unit is brand new and has a brand new tape. It connects up to the cassette port. Though I won't have time to test the units (the wife calls it play) until thursday, at which time I will declare it "Stringy Floppy day". Anyway, anyone have experience with a stringy floppy for a commodore? It's called a "Quick Data Drive". Thanks Rob (self appointed king of the string) (just kidding) Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Mar 4 13:48:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E6500DB.2814.72D6608E@localhost> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030304113520.009d2930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030304144342.00a479b0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Hans, I thought it looked really clean and therefore probably well cared for. I've been rather impressed with Eltec products. Best Regards At 07:39 PM 3/4/03 +0100, you wrote: > > Here's one some of the collectors in Germany might find desirable? > > > Eltec Elektronik Eurocom 1 inkl. Geh?use und > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3011114207&category=187 > >Nice configuration. The computer is not as rare as he states ... >More like a Kim or so, at least over here in Germany, the Eurocom >machines had a quite large followship. > >Still, I like it. > >Gruss >H. > >-- >VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Mar 4 14:01:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: subscription info, dec equipment In-Reply-To: <000a01c2e271$6a6faa40$0a02a8c0@araya> References: <000a01c2e271$6a6faa40$0a02a8c0@araya> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Araya Kositkun wrote: > When is the next TRW Swap meet will be and where is it? > The TRW ham swap meet is held on the last Saturday of each month, from 7:30 am until 11:30 am, California time. It is held in the parking lot of the TRW facility on the southeastern corner of Aviation and Marine Boulevards, in El Segundo, Ca. Go early (6:30) and hoover up all the good deals from the sellers before the meet opens.... ;} Cheers John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 14:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030304201609.482.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Marlin Bates, IV" wrote: > Hello, > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an > Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the > net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. > If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY > appreciate it. If you have AmigaDOS 2.0 or newer, it should come with a handler to mount DOS floppies. You will be limited to 720K format, but that's enough to get a variety of Amiga stuff in there including some entry-level term programs. You'll probably need an unarchiver, too, like Lha. If you are looking for Ethernet, I still have some GG2 Bus+ boards that will let you use an NE-2000 card, but you'll have to get the TCP/IP stack onto your machine somehow ("Miami" is a great choice). I have driver disks and cards New-in-Bag on the shelf right now. What version of the OS do you have? Hard disk? One floppy? Two? If you have 1.3, it should still come with BASIC; worst case, you could write something to pass UUEncoded files over and convert them. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 14:23:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Calcomp 970 plotter In-Reply-To: <1046806928.1039.7.camel@dell1> Message-ID: <20030304201939.66679.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck Swiger wrote: > Anybody know what the 'brain' is in this govt auction might be? > > http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=164994 > > Don't suppose it might be an embedded pdp8 ;)) Just wishful > thinking... Google turns up nothing but pens and supplies. Dunno, but _that_ is the model I had to leave behind because it is too tall to fit in anything but an actual truck. There are no vans in the States with large enough doors to accept it. There is an external controller that was hooked up to mine - same color scheme and age with a Motorola 6800 or 6802 in it. I have the controller box. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 14:35:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: <006401c2e283$c4d0b300$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <20030304203222.31096.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/forever/ > > get that software. Even if you don't want to set up real hardware, I can recommend it to play old Amiga games. I have an old copy I bought on CD-ROM years ago, and I've recently been walking through "Black Crypt" again. > Amiga explorer will send data between any windows pc to the amiga using a > common null modem cable. I am completely baffled as to how they do it. Here's a quote from the Cloanto FAQ: If you are going to use Amiga Explorer over a null-modem serial cable, right-click on the Amiga Computer icon on the Desktop, select Setup, and follow the instructions to have the files automatically copied over the serial cable. No terminal or other additional software is required by this process. Even an old 1.2 or 1.3 Workbench floppy disk can be used to boot the Amiga. *How* do you force-feed software down a serial line without any software to receive it? Elsewhere on the webpage, they mention not needing a term program or a hex editor or even BASIC. There's plenty of ways to do it when you have a receptive program on the other end of the wire. The only thing I can think of is that they are giving the user instructions on how to expose the Workbench Debug menu and putting the Amiga in ROM-Wack first (the ROM debugger in older versions of Kickstart). If you do _that_, then it's just a matter of text formatting - it would probably take a few minutes to write a Perl script to feed it. There might still be a trick or two, like building a process header in unallocated RAM and inserting it into the scheduler tables or some equally cretinous hack. I've used ROM-Wack, but never for much more than post-mortem process dissection. -ethan You just drag an ADF image file on your windows > screen to the desired amiga floppy drive icon and it transfers the image > to > disk. Can use serial or networks for transfers. Its easy to setup. > http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/explorer/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlin Bates, IV" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:11 PM > Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed > > > > Hello, > > > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an > > Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the > > net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. > > If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY > > appreciate it. > > > > Thanks > > > > -Marlin From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 4 14:43:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Eurocom 1 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030304144342.00a479b0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <3E6500DB.2814.72D6608E@localhost> Message-ID: <3E651D74.32659.7346184A@localhost> > I thought it looked really clean and therefore probably well > cared for. I've been rather impressed with Eltec products. Jup, it does. I'd jump for it, and I would right away pay a fifty bucks - which I considere a lot (ask around, I'm a ceap ... err economical guy when it comes to buy stuff). His 'buy now' is just three times that :( Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 14:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: New kid on the list with Mark-8, digital group & more. In-Reply-To: <3E650A92.12702.72FC53F3@localhost> Message-ID: <20030304204958.59440.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > The Kim-1 is another favorite of mine. > > I have a VIM and a SYM-1, but am still looking for a "reasonably > > priced" Kim-1. > > I'd love to trade a Kim for a SYM If I had a spare, I'd trade - I have one SYM (complete with a beat-up box with matching serial number), no KIM, an AIM-65 and most of another AIM or two. I've wanted a KIM for a long time, too. I could beat myself up for talking a seller out of one years ago. It was obvious to me that he really didn't want to sell it, so I guess I was just being too nice a guy. :-/ I go visit the KIM in the Dayton Microcomputer Association's museum everytime I'm at a Computerfest (11 days 'til the next one) -ethan From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 4 14:53:32 2003 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Deano Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed References: <20030304203222.31096.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <052401c2e28f$af92cf30$2000a8c0@hal> You simple copy data from the serial port to a file using CLI then change the exec flags on the file. I managed to do it without even a workbench disk (I had a magazine demo disk that l managed to interupt the boot sequence to get access to the CLI :-) Effectively its the same as the 'text editor' built into DOS (copy con FileName), You could do the same under DOS with the serial port. The file sent over the serial line consists of a mini-terminal program that then recieves the real data. Bye, Deano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:32 PM Subject: Re: Amiga Term Softs needed > --- TeoZ wrote: > > http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/forever/ > > > > get that software. > > Even if you don't want to set up real hardware, I can recommend > it to play old Amiga games. I have an old copy I bought on CD-ROM > years ago, and I've recently been walking through "Black Crypt" again. > > > Amiga explorer will send data between any windows pc to the amiga using a > > common null modem cable. > > I am completely baffled as to how they do it. Here's a quote from > the Cloanto FAQ: > > If you are going to use Amiga Explorer over a null-modem serial cable, > right-click on the Amiga Computer icon on the Desktop, select Setup, > and follow the instructions to have the files automatically copied over > the serial cable. No terminal or other additional software is required > by this process. Even an old 1.2 or 1.3 Workbench floppy disk can be > used to boot the Amiga. > > *How* do you force-feed software down a serial line without any software > to receive it? Elsewhere on the webpage, they mention not needing a > term program or a hex editor or even BASIC. > > There's plenty of ways to do it when you have a receptive program on > the other end of the wire. > > The only thing I can think of is that they are giving the user > instructions on how to expose the Workbench Debug menu and putting > the Amiga in ROM-Wack first (the ROM debugger in older versions of > Kickstart). If you do _that_, then it's just a matter of text > formatting - it would probably take a few minutes to write a Perl > script to feed it. There might still be a trick or two, like building > a process header in unallocated RAM and inserting it into the scheduler > tables or some equally cretinous hack. I've used ROM-Wack, but never > for much more than post-mortem process dissection. > > -ethan > > > You just drag an ADF image file on your windows > > screen to the desired amiga floppy drive icon and it transfers the image > > to > > disk. Can use serial or networks for transfers. Its easy to setup. > > http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/explorer/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marlin Bates, IV" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:11 PM > > Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an > > > Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the > > > net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. > > > If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY > > > appreciate it. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -Marlin From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 4 14:55:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed References: <20030304203222.31096.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013901c2e28f$4ba991c0$0400fea9@game> Well as long as you have a workbench disk to boot from on the amiga its pretty easy to use. The windows side sends data that the comm port accepts, you then have to copy this data to a file on the amiga side. Then you run the small app on the amiga side allowing 2 way communciation, after that point you dont need to be at the amiga while you transfer your images direct to an empy 720K disk (doesnt need to be formatted). The only problem is that 19,200 baud is the fastest you can use between the 2 computers (at least thats the fastest speed they both support on a windows box) and it takes a few minutes for each disk image. Its supposed to work with tcp/ip also but I havnt got around to getting my PCMCIA card setup on my amiga 1200 yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Amiga Term Softs needed > --- TeoZ wrote: > > http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/forever/ > > > > get that software. > > Even if you don't want to set up real hardware, I can recommend > it to play old Amiga games. I have an old copy I bought on CD-ROM > years ago, and I've recently been walking through "Black Crypt" again. > > > Amiga explorer will send data between any windows pc to the amiga using a > > common null modem cable. > > I am completely baffled as to how they do it. Here's a quote from > the Cloanto FAQ: > > If you are going to use Amiga Explorer over a null-modem serial cable, > right-click on the Amiga Computer icon on the Desktop, select Setup, > and follow the instructions to have the files automatically copied over > the serial cable. No terminal or other additional software is required > by this process. Even an old 1.2 or 1.3 Workbench floppy disk can be > used to boot the Amiga. > > *How* do you force-feed software down a serial line without any software > to receive it? Elsewhere on the webpage, they mention not needing a > term program or a hex editor or even BASIC. > > There's plenty of ways to do it when you have a receptive program on > the other end of the wire. > > The only thing I can think of is that they are giving the user > instructions on how to expose the Workbench Debug menu and putting > the Amiga in ROM-Wack first (the ROM debugger in older versions of > Kickstart). If you do _that_, then it's just a matter of text > formatting - it would probably take a few minutes to write a Perl > script to feed it. There might still be a trick or two, like building > a process header in unallocated RAM and inserting it into the scheduler > tables or some equally cretinous hack. I've used ROM-Wack, but never > for much more than post-mortem process dissection. > > -ethan > > > You just drag an ADF image file on your windows > > screen to the desired amiga floppy drive icon and it transfers the image > > to > > disk. Can use serial or networks for transfers. Its easy to setup. > > http://www.cloanto.com/amiga/explorer/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marlin Bates, IV" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:11 PM > > Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an > > > Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the > > > net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. > > > If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY > > > appreciate it. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -Marlin From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 4 15:48:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: References: <20030225040514.LWPO7180.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E652CCC.11711.738207CB@localhost> > Just wondering if any UK list lurkers and regulars have a keyboard and > floppy drive for an Atari 520STfm? I might have > Got one here that's had An Incident with > its keyboard and has been repaired in the past but has since gone bad again, > but it appears that the floppy is toast since it continually tries to seek > track 0 and won't read/write even Atari format disks. I'm not shure, but wheren't the floppy select signals also generated by the keyboard controller? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Mar 4 16:01:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Article on computer collecting in today's Guardian (IUK) Message-ID: <3E6521B3.5080607@gifford.co.uk> Just a quick note to point out the article by Christine Finn in today's Guardian newspaper: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,906984,00.html It's on page 7, in the G2 section, if you have the paper version. Big photo of Sellam's collection, and one of Sellam himself. Small mention of my collection, too. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 4 16:02:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: King of the string has Stringy floppy day In-Reply-To: <88893202-4E79-11D7-95D4-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > Anyway, anyone have experience with a stringy floppy for a > commodore? It's called a "Quick Data Drive". Yup, I have one or two, too.. in box even :) I still have about 10 moving boxes full of my old Commodore stuff.. just can't put myself to getting rid of my old V20 and C64 :) The QDD actually worked, I used it a lot. (in 1987 or so) --f From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Mar 4 16:05:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England References: <000201c2e1be$6c8a3d30$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <3E652299.4080407@gifford.co.uk> Antonio Carlini wrote: > The man who turned up at the office to collect the kit > that the reseller had bought, had a van (a Sprinter or some > such) with an "after-market" built in tail-lift. Ah, tail-lifts! How would we move the Big Iron without 'em? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 4 16:08:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: <000001c2e285$ccaaab60$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Avoid the RD53 at all costs... it is the most problematic of > > the RD series drives. The RD54 in my experience is the most > > reliable, and I have a number of them in machines still working. I have to second that.. they get stuck. The RD54's, albeit noisy beasts, still go here, or, at least, most of them. (Yes, Wilko, I'll come and pick up the stuff this weekend..) > Unless you use Wolfgang Moeller's modified ROMs - then I believe > that SCSI will work. (IIRC the modified VS/UV2K ROMs also > incoroporate the >1GB fix ... but it's been a long time since > I looked). Given the DMA structure of the VS2000 SCSI port, connecting disks to that port will be dramatically slow. Fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 4 16:15:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <3E652299.4080407@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, John Honniball wrote: > Ah, tail-lifts! How would we move the Big Iron without 'em? Forklifts. --f From acme at ao.net Tue Mar 4 16:17:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: King of the string has Stringy floppy day Message-ID: <200303042213.RAA06992@eola.ao.net> BTW Rob, which model TS computer are you using the A&J with? Later -- Glen 0/0 > Hi All, > Thanks to Glen I now have info on my A&J Microdrive. On another > note, I have just received in today a Stringy floppy for the Commodore > 64. This unit is brand new and has a brand new tape. It connects up > to the cassette port. Though I won't have time to test the units (the > wife calls it play) until thursday, at which time I will declare it > "Stringy Floppy day". > Anyway, anyone have experience with a stringy floppy for a > commodore? It's called a "Quick Data Drive". > > Thanks > Rob > (self appointed king of the string) > (just kidding) > > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com > President > Colourfull Creations > http://www.colourfull.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Mar 4 16:35:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: References: <3E652299.4080407@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030304223044.00bc1bf8@slave> At 22:11 04/03/2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, John Honniball wrote: > > > Ah, tail-lifts! How would we move the Big Iron without 'em? >Forklifts. Or cranes... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 4 16:42:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: IBM 5363 II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Birdget Harris wrote: > How much did the 5363 cost? I've been trying to find out what a fair price > for one is to no avail. I would consider not having to pay to have it hauled away a good deal ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dundas at caltech.edu Tue Mar 4 16:46:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Rack mount rails/slide for BA23 Message-ID: I have an existing 11/73 in a BA23 mounted in an H9644 cabinet (I believe this is called "low boy"?), effectively a 19" rack/cabinet. I would like to mount another BA23 for a MicroVAX II in the same cabinet. I have the uVAX but no rails for it. Any suggestion where to find these? Or what acceptable alternatives might exist? Thanks, John --------------------------------------------------------- John A. Dundas III Director, Information Technology Services Infrastructure, Caltech Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA 91125-8100 Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 16:48:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030304224434.55838.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, John Honniball wrote: > > > Ah, tail-lifts! How would we move the Big Iron without 'em? > Forklifts. Gotta be careful with those. When I was at a local reseller picking up a Pyramid for Dan Cohoe, I watched the fork driver crimp the back door of a rented van while attempting to load a CDC 9766 disk drive. It really wasn't the fork driver's fault. The door was above his head, nobody was watching up there, and everyone kept telling him to inch forward. The forklift was a foot taller than the car and the gate was longer than the tines. Glad _I_ didn't have to explain that at the rental counter. -ethan From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 4 16:55:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <20030304224434.55838.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Gotta be careful with those. Well, given my dad ran a flowerbulb growing and exporting company for 20 years, I got my (more than fair!) share of forklift-duties when I was younger. Ya know.. driving em around, shuffling pallets loaded with 48 crates of flowerbulbs around... :) (mental note: YES, I dropped one or two pallets over the years.. which turned out real messy every time.. bulbs rolling everywhere..) --f From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 4 16:57:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Dual File Structure CD for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <3E641B8E.5174C82F@compsys.to> Message-ID: <000101c2e29c$8143e080$cb87fe3e@athlon> > The critical reason that everything works seems to be a > rather fortunate use of the mutually exclusive areas by the > RT-11 file structure and the standard ISO file structure. I'm pretty certain that at least one VMS engineer participated in the standards process for ISO9660. I've also heard that, as a result, this ability to have ISO9660 and A.N.Other file structure not tread on each other is NOT an accident! Of course, said engineer was almost certainly thinking of ODS rather than the RT-11 file structure (does that have a name?). If you look at http://support.tditx.com/~odsiso/index.html you'll find a toolset that allows you to do something similar with ODS-2 and ISO9660 i.e. have 600MB+ of data accessible in native for both via an ISO9660 directory structure and via an ODS-2 structure. It works (IIRC) by building the ISO9660 image using mkfsiso and then analysing mkfsiso's log file to find where the files are and creating the mapping info that ODS-2 needs (or it may be the other way around - it's been a while since I used it). So you *may* be able to automate (or semi-automate) your existing process. It does look like ODS-2 and RT-11 FS cannot co-exist, however, since they both want to use the 64 blocks at the start of the image, unless it's possible that the unnecessary fields in each of those two formats can be persuaded to step out of each others way. Do you have any details about exactly what RT-11 requires in that area? Maybe a disk that boots on PDP-11, VAX (VMS), Alpha (VMS) and PC is possible after all :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 4 16:58:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c2e29c$fe10e1d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Given the DMA structure of the VS2000 SCSI port, connecting > disks to that port will be dramatically slow. So which aspect of the VS2000 would you describe as fast then :-) Actually, when used as an Xterm (by booting the VAXELN based VXT code - or its predecessor) it was not too bad. At least, compared to what was available then! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 4 17:08:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: All Qs (Was: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay) In-Reply-To: <02d301c2ddb1$3d979790$46f8b8ce@impac.com> References: <00a001c2ddad$2ceff800$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3E653F7C.26786.73CB048C@localhost> > Define your terms. I remember the LICA (Long Island Computer > Association) meeting immediately following the release of the much > anticipated C= 64. There were several retailers in attendance, each of > whom had horror stories of empty boxes, boxes filled with incomplete or > inoperable machines and, my favorite story, a unit whose keyboard was > all "Q"s. It seems that Commodore had to rush to get their Christmas > orders filled and they ended up cutting a few corners. This reminds me of the sparekeycaps for PET kayboards I have. It was supposed to be good for 10 keyboards, so every keycap 10 times, so when I finaly ordered and counted them I found that only 6 sets where possible, due the fact that ther where for some keys as little as 6 pices, while other had up to 14. Well, seams that Commodore hasd a long tradition in such things. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 4 17:08:35 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: <000201c2e29c$fe10e1d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Given the DMA structure of the VS2000 SCSI port, connecting > > disks to that port will be dramatically slow. > > So which aspect of the VS2000 would you describe > as fast then :-) Uhm. The power supply comes up REAL quick after powerup :) > Actually, when used as an Xterm (by booting the VAXELN based > VXT code - or its predecessor) it was not too bad. At least, > compared to what was available then! I would if I could, you (censored). (quoting Eric Cartman) Seriously.. I'd like to see the graphics on the 2000, but I lack the keyboard/mouse thingie. I believe there's a cable that ends in a little box, in which you could plug the mouse and keyboard, much like the one used with the DS5000 series. I _do_ have two 2000's, soo.. (one MicroVAX 2000, and one VAXserver 2000.. anyone in NL have a VAXstation 2000 for me? :) --fred (reading :) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 4 17:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: All Qs (Was: Check out this TI99/4 on eBay) In-Reply-To: <3E653F7C.26786.73CB048C@localhost> Message-ID: <20030304231415.61159.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > ...my favorite story, a unit whose keyboard was all "Q"s. Remember the Dilbert where they shipped keyboards missing all the "Q"s? ISTR the punchline was something about "uality is job 1". -ethan From ceo at coherent-logic.com Tue Mar 4 17:26:00 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor References: <000001c2e285$ccaaab60$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <007201c2e2a5$0d45bab0$8500000a@music> sorry i spoke... +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 12:39 PM Subject: RE: DEC RD54 from Maxtor > > Avoid the RD53 at all costs... it is the most problematic of > > the RD series drives. The RD54 in my experience is the most > > reliable, and I have a number of them in machines still working. > > I never had enough RD53s to form a statistically valid opinion. > Never had a problem with RD54s (and I guess I had maybe > a dozen running in the lab). > > > Yes, going to SCSI would be nice, but you can't put one in > > your VAXstation 2000... > > Unless you use Wolfgang Moeller's modified ROMs - then I believe > that SCSI will work. (IIRC the modified VS/UV2K ROMs also > incoroporate the >1GB fix ... but it's been a long time since > I looked). > > Antonio > > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ceo at coherent-logic.com Tue Mar 4 17:30:01 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor References: Message-ID: <007c01c2e2a5$8f568b10$8500000a@music> You can turn the uVAX 2000 into a VS2000 by changing a jumper on the system board. +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 4:04 PM Subject: RE: DEC RD54 from Maxtor > On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > Given the DMA structure of the VS2000 SCSI port, connecting > > > disks to that port will be dramatically slow. > > > > So which aspect of the VS2000 would you describe > > as fast then :-) > Uhm. The power supply comes up REAL quick after powerup :) > > > Actually, when used as an Xterm (by booting the VAXELN based > > VXT code - or its predecessor) it was not too bad. At least, > > compared to what was available then! > I would if I could, you (censored). > (quoting Eric Cartman) > > Seriously.. I'd like to see the graphics on the 2000, but I lack > the keyboard/mouse thingie. I believe there's a cable that ends > in a little box, in which you could plug the mouse and keyboard, > much like the one used with the DS5000 series. > > I _do_ have two 2000's, soo.. > > (one MicroVAX 2000, and one VAXserver 2000.. anyone in NL have a > VAXstation 2000 for me? :) > > --fred (reading :) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Mar 4 17:31:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: <000001c2e285$ccaaab60$cb87fe3e@athlon>; from arcarlini@iee.org on Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 20:39:35 CET References: <200303041846.NAA3428256@shell.TheWorld.com> <000001c2e285$ccaaab60$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030304232222.K41665@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.03.04 20:39 Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Yes, going to SCSI would be nice, but you can't put one in > > your VAXstation 2000... > Unless you use Wolfgang Moeller's modified ROMs - then I believe > that SCSI will work. I have the patched ROMs in my VS2k and indeed, it is able to boot from SCSI disks connected to the tape port. When we tried this for the first time it worked with VMS. I tried it with NetBSD, but NetBSD faild as the second stage boot loader doesn't know to handle the VS2k SCSI adapter. > (IIRC the modified VS/UV2K ROMs also incoroporate > the >1GB fix ... but it's been a long time since I looked). Don't know about that. I mounted an old 650 MB 5.25" FH Seagate HD in my VS2k. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Mar 4 17:37:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: <007c01c2e2a5$8f568b10$8500000a@music> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, John Willis wrote: > You can turn the uVAX 2000 into a VS2000 by changing a jumper > on the system board. I know, but I'm one of those purists (or morons, depending how you look at it..) who want their systems to also have the right labels. Meaning, I want a box with the VS2000 faceplate :) --f From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Mar 4 17:41:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Couple Great Finds Today art Auction Message-ID: <01c301c2e2a7$12f706b0$f50cdd40@oemcomputer> I was able to pick up a copy of Windows 1.0 in the box for $2.50 and got a Tomy OMNIBOT 2000 for $7.50. Also got Videcom terminal without the keyboard. :-( From ssj152 at charter.net Tue Mar 4 17:47:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Thanks for suggestions with my "build a PDP" project Message-ID: <037901c2e2a7$d69cc7d0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Thanks, everyone for your suggestions regarding SCSI controller for RT-11, DECserver in Kansas City, etc. All of this is leading up to me building a PDP-11 SOMETHING out of parts I can afford. I've worked with Mike McFadden and he bought the rack of equipment containing the terminal server and is selling me the CPU board; Thanks to Jonathan telling me about the auction, I bid on and won the "LSI-11 Box Blow Out" on eBay PLUS the QBUS chassis (sold separately); Watch for me to announce the availability of the 11/23 CPU's and other boards from this auction. Hopefully the sale of some of these things will defray some of the expense of the construction of the PDP-11. I already have a pair of SSSD 8" floppy drives I bought to use with E-11 and PUTR to copy from my PC to RT-11 RX01 floppies - now I need to buy the adapter board from John Wilson to connect the big floppy's to my old 486. I have a DECserver 550 with its CPU and CXA16's; I may use the chassis and the CPU, or just the one from Mike McFadden. Then again, I have enough stuff now that I could build two systems. I have a RQDX3 and RX50 for a floppy interface to the prospective PDP-11. I'll use one of the drives from the "Blow Out" in the new system. The chassis I bought in the "Blow Out" has a foundation module with disk controller, etc. on it, so I may not need these items. I have 2 Ethernet controllers, the one from my original DECserver 550 and a DEQNA I recently bought. One of these is likely to go. It seems to me I am almost set - all I have to do is get all the stuff here and set it up :-) that should be a SNAP - right? Lets see - ~1978 to 2003 is how many years old this stuff is??? Only 25 or so. Should be no problem . Regards, Stuart Johnson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 4 17:56:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Monitor screen width adjustment? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030304155343.00b88e10@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Mar 4, 3 04:00:38 pm Message-ID: > Hello again, > > I've got a Sinclair (well, Amstrad really, but it has Sinclair printed on > the front) monitor here, which claims to be a QL monitor. To the extent > that it has a captive QL-specific signal lead... > > However, the display is too wide, and marginally extends past the bezel in > both directions; only by about 1/4 of one character or so, but just enough > to be seriously annoying. > > So, today, I whizzed the back off to adjust it - but there's no "horizontal > size" pot :( There are trimpots for V.size, H.hold and Sub-bright. There's You're looking for an adjustable inductor (coil) in series with the horizontal yoke -- probably connected to the collector of the line output transistor. OFten there are 2 inductors in series -- a normal adjustable one (width) and one with an adjustable bias magnet (horizontal linearity). > adjusters for focus & brightness (or maybe contrast, it was hard to tell > since it was simply labelled "Screen". There's also externally accessible 'Screen' adjusts the voltage on the first anode (sometimes incorrectly called the 'screen grid' in the States) and is a brightness adjustment. > controls for V.hold, brightness & contrast. On the back of the tube, > there's trimpots to adjust red & blue intensity (with two pots per colour). Probably a gain and offset control for each colour. > It looks like there ought to be a green pot as well, but there's no trimmer > there, just a fixed resistor. It's normal to have _one_ control (normally offset) for green, since you don't actually need all 6 to get the right grey scale tracking. But I don't think you can necessarily get a correct grey scale with only 4 tweakers. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 4 17:56:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 4, 3 07:09:17 pm Message-ID: > Anyway; the haul included MINC with 2 modules and the following boards: Only 2 modules (I assume the DAC and Clock that were mentioned) :-(. Pity. You really need at least the ADC to do anything useful with it. > > M8012 boot board > M8043 DLV11 4 channel MUX for console etc. > M7954 IBV11 IEC/IEEE interface > M8029 RXV21 RX02 controller > M8044 MSV11 RAM board > M7270 (I think) 11/23 CPU Isn;t that an 11/03? Odd there's no LPV11. That was standard on the MINC IIRC. Apart from that, it sounds like a standard MINC configuration (the IBV11 is a GPIB interface, BTW...) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 4 17:56:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again In-Reply-To: <13416288431.20030303230345@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Mar 3, 3 11:03:45 pm Message-ID: > Well, I finally got around to testing the PSU on my 11/34. I measured at the > backplane connectors with no backplanes plugged in. Everything checks out > except for the -5V and +20V. Accordingly, the LED at the bottom of the H745 > brick (regulator 1) does not light. However, some of the other voltages > coming from the H745 (according to the BA11-K FMPS) seem to be OK. I thought the H745 provided +20V and -5V only. What other voltage do you think it's providing... > > Does anything in the machine even need -5V or +20V? If not, can I leave the AFAIK it's only needed if you have core memory. Certainly I've run 11/34 machines without one, with MOS memory and a fair selection of interfaces. Generally you only need the +5V, +15V, -15V lines. > bad brick in place? I have: KD11-EA, KY11-LB, DL11-W, MS11-JP, M7850 parity, I would unplug the 8 pin connector from any brick you're not actually using, particularly if it seems to be defective. Since that's all the connections to the brick, the defective brick can be left physically in the chassis. > DZ11-A, RK11-D. I'll be adding a RX11 at some point. Someone enlighten me, > please. :-) > > I'm pretty sure I have a spare brick. > > Also: what are these signals on the 6-pin backplane mate-n-locks? > - AC LO > - DC LO Power fail lines (like the Power Good line on a PC/AT PSU). Basically, any device/mounting box can pull those lines low if it detects a power failure, and the CPU (or other devices can then shut down in an orderly fashion. -tony From jss at subatomix.com Tue Mar 4 19:59:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1653806673.20030304195549@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> Well, I finally got around to testing the PSU on my 11/34. ... Everything >> checks out except for the -5V and +20V. ... However, some of the other >> voltages coming from the H745 (according to the BA11-K FMPS) seem to be >> OK. > > I thought the H745 provided +20V and -5V only. What other voltage do you > think it's providing... My multimeter shows the following voltages on the mate-n-lock connectors J3,5,7,9,11 relative to pin 8 (ground): +15V at pin 6 +5V at pin 12 -15V at pin 15 The printset -- specifically, sheet 2 of 5410864-0-1 "PWR DIST BOARD" (page 40 of the BA11-K FMPS PDF I downloaded) -- leads me to believe that these voltages can come only from the H745. Other documents agree with you, though. I'm confused. > I would unplug the 8 pin connector from any brick you're not actually > using, particularly if it seems to be defective. Since that's all the > connections to the brick, the defective brick can be left physically in > the chassis. Thanks. My next step, then, is to pull the cards, inspect them, and clean out the backplanes and other currently hard-to-reach spots. Then I'll check for bent pins on the backplanes and eventually test a minimal card set. I'll double-check, but it looks like all my NPG jumpers are in. I don't have any NPR peripherals except for the RK11-D, and I have ample "bleeding knuckle" G727A grant cards. I don't *expect* any grant issues. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Tue Mar 4 20:11:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Couple Great Finds Today art Auction In-Reply-To: <01c301c2e2a7$12f706b0$f50cdd40@oemcomputer> References: <01c301c2e2a7$12f706b0$f50cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <1814573115.20030304200835@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, Keys wrote: > got a Tomy OMNIBOT 2000 for $7.50. Drool! I won a regular Omnibot at a grocery store raffle in the rural town where I grew up. I was quite young, but I had a lot of fun with it. I believe it is still in my parents' attic. The coolest thing I ever did with my Omnibot was use it to serve candy to visitors on Halloween. The little tray it came with worked very nicely. I hid in a closet with the door cracked open just enough to have a good view of the area. You could key up and speak into the Omnibot remote control, and the sound would come out of a speaker on the robot. It scared the youngest trick-or-treaters half to death! It wasn't much smaller than them. They'd run off screaming for their lives. Excellent fun! 'Course, the raging laughter from the closet eventually gave away the secret. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 4 20:38:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Couple Great Finds Today art Auction In-Reply-To: <1814573115.20030304200835@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > The coolest thing I ever did with my Omnibot was use it to serve candy to > visitors on Halloween. The little tray it came with worked very nicely. I > hid in a closet with the door cracked open just enough to have a good view > of the area. You could key up and speak into the Omnibot remote control, and > the sound would come out of a speaker on the robot. It scared the youngest > trick-or-treaters half to death! It wasn't much smaller than them. They'd > run off screaming for their lives. Excellent fun! Good thing someone didn't "trick" on you and run off with Omnibot! "Stop! Bring it back here!", crackling from Omnibot's speaker ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Mar 4 21:46:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Dual File Structure CD for RT-11 References: <000101c2e29c$8143e080$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <3E657267.FBAC71D2@compsys.to> >Antonio Carlini wrote: > > The critical reason that everything works seems to be a > > rather fortunate use of the mutually exclusive areas by the > > RT-11 file structure and the standard ISO file structure. > I'm pretty certain that at least one VMS engineer participated > in the standards process for ISO9660. I've also heard that, as > a result, this ability to have ISO9660 and A.N.Other file > structure not tread on each other is NOT an accident! Of > course, said engineer was almost certainly thinking of ODS > rather than the RT-11 file structure (does that have a name?). Jerome Fine replies: Since RT-11 and ODS might not have had the same requirements, then I suppose it might still have been "rather fortunate" that RT-11 needs those same 64 blocks. As for the name of the "RT-11 file structure", I suppose that is what everyone else calls it as well. The overall details are simple for RT-11 Partition ZERO: Block 0 - Secondary boot block (the same as will ALL PDP-11 systems) Block 1 - Directory information Block 2,3,4,5 - Tertiary boot blocks Blocks 6 => 67 - 31 Directory Segments (2 blocks per directory segment) > If you look at http://support.tditx.com/~odsiso/index.html > you'll find a toolset that allows you to do something > similar with ODS-2 and ISO9660 i.e. have 600MB+ of data > accessible in native for both via an ISO9660 directory > structure and via an ODS-2 structure. It works (IIRC) by > building the ISO9660 image using mkfsiso and then analysing > mkfsiso's log file to find where the files are and creating > the mapping info that ODS-2 needs (or it may be the other > way around - it's been a while since I used it). Unfortunately, RT-11 devices are a MAXIMUM of 32 MBytes or 64536 blocks. Thus, the same RT-11 file structure MUST be repeated every 65536 blocks and requires those 64 (actually 68 blocks, although as few as 8 blocks are sufficient since ONLY ONE directory segment is mandatory for each RT-11 file structure) blocks at the start of every RT-11 partition which starts at every multiple of 65536 blocks. Thus a CD can have about 20 RT-11 partitions - depending on how full the CD is with files. As I asked, I need to be able to make those 68 blocks available by some means. On the other hand, I doubt that it would work very well with a CD like the RT-11 Freeware CD which has over 21,000 files in over 900 directories. The only really useful situation would be with a limited number of (for RT-11) large files, probably each being on average about 500 blocks which is about 120 files per RT-11 file directory. Since all RT-11 binary distributions were about 5000 blocks or larger starting with V4.00 in 1980, a CD with RT-11 distributions would be ideal if there was more than 300 MBytes of distributions and the standard ISO9660 file structure was used along with the RT-11 files structure. In particular, starting with V5.00 of RT-11 up to V5.07 of RT-11, there were about 17 unique binary distributions for a total of over 100,000 blocks. That is only about 50 MBytes, but when the layered products are added along with the source code, I suspect the total would be more than 300 MBytes, although less than 600 MBytes that ONE CD can manage. > So you *may* be able to automate (or semi-automate) your > existing process. What I am looking for is some method of leaving 64 blocks at the start of every RT-11 partition (every 65536 blocks or 16384 sectors). Note that in most cases, my choice for an RT-11 distribution would be an RL02 image which can hold a maximum of 20450 blocks. I would then TRUNCATE the unused blocks (usually all zeros) at the end and thus save about 14000 blocks for each binary distribution or DSK file even though the boot blocks would remain for an RL02 in blocks 0, 2, 3, 4 and 5 of the RT-11 file directory. With only a small number of RT-11 DSK distribution files, it would be relatively easy to set up the RT-11 file directory for each RT-11 partition for the small number of CDs that might be produced. > It does look like ODS-2 and RT-11 FS cannot co-exist, however, > since they both want to use the 64 blocks at the start of > the image, unless it's possible that the unnecessary fields in > each of those two formats can be persuaded to step out > of each others way. Do you have any details about exactly > what RT-11 requires in that area? Maybe a disk that boots > on PDP-11, VAX (VMS), Alpha (VMS) and PC is possible > after all :-) It seems VERY unlikely. The first 8 blocks of the RT-11 file structure are very specific. On the other hand, if you don't restrict the operating system that the PC is running, when I used the CD that was produced, I was able to boot from the CD using RT-11 running under Ersatz-11 running under Windows 98 SE. I am also sure that it will be possible to use the same CD and boot on a real DEC PDP-11. As I asked before, does anyone know if the source code for mkisofs.exe could be modified so that when the files are set up in the standard ISO9660 file structure, the first 64 blocks at the start of every RT-11 partition (every 65536 blocks) can be left empty? OR, a standalone program could be written to take a CD image and move the files and adjust the pointers so that the same result is produced. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Tue Mar 4 22:04:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: King of the string has Stringy floppy day In-Reply-To: <200303042213.RAA06992@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <1899F982-4EBF-11D7-8CA8-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Hi Glen, I'll be using it with my great and powerful TS 2068. It's the sweetheart of my Timex collection. Rob On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, at 05:13 PM, acme@ao.net wrote: > BTW Rob, which model TS computer are you using the A&J with? > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > >> Hi All, >> Thanks to Glen I now have info on my A&J Microdrive. On another >> note, I have just received in today a Stringy floppy for the Commodore >> 64. This unit is brand new and has a brand new tape. It connects up >> to the cassette port. Though I won't have time to test the units (the >> wife calls it play) until thursday, at which time I will declare it >> "Stringy Floppy day". >> Anyway, anyone have experience with a stringy floppy for a >> commodore? It's called a "Quick Data Drive". >> >> Thanks >> Rob >> (self appointed king of the string) >> (just kidding) >> >> >> Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com >> President >> Colourfull Creations >> http://www.colourfull.com From kenziem at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 4 22:13:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <20030304224434.55838.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030304224434.55838.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030305040933.ORDW4180.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Tuesday 04 March 2003 17:44, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, John Honniball wrote: > > > Ah, tail-lifts! How would we move the Big Iron without 'em? > > > > Forklifts. > > Gotta be careful with those. When I was at a local reseller picking > up a Pyramid for Dan Cohoe, I watched the fork driver crimp the > back door of a rented van while attempting to load a CDC 9766 disk Dan scored another Pryamid. The one we pulled the crane used the magnet and lifted it over the fluke that and Hitachi disk arrays to drop it beside the van. The only damage we noticed was one bent hinge, on the computer. From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Mar 5 00:15:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:03 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor Message-ID: <200303050611.BAA3501388@shell.TheWorld.com> >> Yes, going to SCSI would be nice, but you can't put one in >> your VAXstation 2000... > >Unless you use Wolfgang Moeller's modified ROMs - then I believe >that SCSI will work. (IIRC the modified VS/UV2K ROMs also >incoroporate the >1GB fix ... but it's been a long time since >I looked). I know the disk would fit, and I know it can talk SCSI, but I didn't know whether the SCSI cabling for the disk would fit inside the VS2000 box... That's all I meant. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Mar 5 00:33:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Dual File Structure CD for RT-11 Message-ID: <200303050629.BAA3448794@shell.TheWorld.com> >It does look like ODS-2 and RT-11 FS cannot co-exist, however, >since they both want to use the 64 blocks at the start of >the image, unless it's possible that the unnecessary fields in >each of those two formats can be persuaded to step out >of each others way. Do you have any details about exactly >what RT-11 requires in that area? Maybe a disk that boots >on PDP-11, VAX (VMS), Alpha (VMS) and PC is possible >after all :-) RT absolutely needs block 1, the Home Block. If you want the disk bootable, then 2-5 are absolutely required. Typically, blocks 6 through 6+(2*31)-1 are required for the directory, but the home block contains a value where the directory is supposed to start... but I don't believe that RT actually uses this field, and many utilities certainly don't, assuming the directory starts in block 6 (not to mention user programs). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Mar 5 00:34:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor Message-ID: Wouldn't 'narrow' SCSI cabling work inside? The only real problem then would be termination... Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialiost Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Megan [mailto:mbg@theworld.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:12 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: DEC RD54 from Maxtor >> Yes, going to SCSI would be nice, but you can't put one in >> your VAXstation 2000... > >Unless you use Wolfgang Moeller's modified ROMs - then I believe >that SCSI will work. (IIRC the modified VS/UV2K ROMs also >incoroporate the >1GB fix ... but it's been a long time since >I looked). I know the disk would fit, and I know it can talk SCSI, but I didn't know whether the SCSI cabling for the disk would fit inside the VS2000 box... That's all I meant. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Wed Mar 5 05:39:00 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles Message-ID: I'm not up on what is considered a good deal for old Apple hardware, but I have a guy offering me the following and I'm wondering what I should be considering. I haven't personally seen the stuff yet so I don't have all the specifics, but he says it is all in good condition, running, yadda yadda "you won't be disappointed." 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple monitors, external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". Sorry I can't be more precise at the moment, but maybe if I could get some ballpark figures.... Thanks, dc From brendle at ems.psu.edu Wed Mar 5 06:05:00 2003 From: brendle at ems.psu.edu (Jeff Brendle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <860EA194-4E7B-11D7-A952-000A27917E58@ems.psu.edu> Marlin: Since you are a P$Uer, I think there used to be an Amiga user group on campus, you might want to check to see if that still exists as a mailing list or some such thing here, who knows, there might still be people that putz around with the old beasties? Will try to recall who it was of my old coworkers at CAC who was the Amiga guy... thinking that it was Doug Bischoff, and if I remember correctly he is still e-reachable at his role-playing site, xanodria (sp?), will have to think more on this & get back to you. -j On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, at 01:11 PM, Marlin Bates, IV wrote: > Hello, > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an > Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the > net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. > If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY > appreciate it. > > Thanks > > -Marlin > Jeff Brendle Office: 248A Deike Bldg./(814)865-3257/fax 863-7708 Desktop Support Spv. Home: #210 Parkgate 349 Toftrees Ave. Penn State - Coll. of E&MS State College, PA / (814)861-8180 Mailto:bli@psu.edu AOL/MSN/Yahoo! IM - JSBrendle From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 5 06:05:13 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: King of the string has Stringy floppy day In-Reply-To: <88893202-4E79-11D7-95D4-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Robert Borsuk > Sent: 04 March 2003 19:43 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: King of the string has Stringy floppy day > > Hi All, > Thanks to Glen I now have info on my A&J Microdrive. On another > note, I have just received in today a Stringy floppy for the Commodore > 64. This unit is brand new and has a brand new tape. It connects up > to the cassette port. Though I won't have time to test the units (the > wife calls it play) until thursday, at which time I will declare it > "Stringy Floppy day". > Anyway, anyone have experience with a stringy floppy for a > commodore? It's called a "Quick Data Drive". I'm wondering if anyone actually *bought* these QDDs, every one I see including my own are brand new and have a brand new system tape; people try and sell 'em on epay as 'wow' etc :) Mine's badged as 'Entrepo' and I'm pretty sure it's a single drive version of the Rotronics 'Wafadrive' that was available for the Speccy and C64. That one was built round a BSR tape mechanism (the same people that made vinyl turntables in the 70s). I don't think it can be classed as a stringy floppy though, since that accolade used to belong to (in the UK anyway) a device called the 'Phloopy' which was a plastic case similar to, but bigger than, the Sinclair Microdrive but instead of a neverending reel of tape it just had the tape 'loose' inside the cart..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vance at neurotica.com Wed Mar 5 06:05:18 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Ah, tail-lifts! How would we move the Big Iron without 'em? > Forklifts. That would get expensive quick. Peace... Sridhar From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 5 06:10:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England Message-ID: <641607361.20030305060650@subatomix.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, John Honniball wrote: >> Ah, tail-lifts! How would we move the Big Iron without 'em? > Forklifts. I have also experienced one of those construction equipment pieces, with a big dirt-scoop that lifts up and down, lifting big VAX cabinets into a truck. Tilt in, lift up, tilt out. It worked well, but there was an experienced driver in the machine. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 5 06:13:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Rack mount rails/slide for BA23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1481812926.20030305061016@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, John A. Dundas III wrote: > I would like to mount another BA23 for a MicroVAX II in the same cabinet. > I have the uVAX but no rails for it. > > Any suggestion where to find these? Or what acceptable alternatives might > exist? Scrapyards. The boards go bye-bye first, but the racks and mounting equipment tend to stay around for a while. I used to have two of what you're looking for, but I gave them to another list member. I'm sorry that I couldn't of more assistance. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Mar 5 06:18:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed Message-ID: Hmm... What's a P$Uer? Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Brendle [mailto:brendle@ems.psu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Amiga Term Softs needed Marlin: Since you are a P$Uer, I think there used to be an Amiga user group on campus, you might want to check to see if that still exists as a mailing list or some such thing here, who knows, there might still be people that putz around with the old beasties? Will try to recall who it was of my old coworkers at CAC who was the Amiga guy... thinking that it was Doug Bischoff, and if I remember correctly he is still e-reachable at his role-playing site, xanodria (sp?), will have to think more on this & get back to you. -j On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, at 01:11 PM, Marlin Bates, IV wrote: > Hello, > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an > Ethernet card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the > net, but getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. > If anyone can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY > appreciate it. > > Thanks > > -Marlin > Jeff Brendle Office: 248A Deike Bldg./(814)865-3257/fax 863-7708 Desktop Support Spv. Home: #210 Parkgate 349 Toftrees Ave. Penn State - Coll. of E&MS State College, PA / (814)861-8180 Mailto:bli@psu.edu AOL/MSN/Yahoo! IM - JSBrendle From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 5 06:35:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030305040417.030c7bf0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 06:42 AM 3/5/03 -0500, Damien Cymbal wrote: >specifics, but he says it is all in good condition, running, yadda yadda "you >won't be disappointed." > >2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple monitors, >external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". A IIc if it REALLY is new in box, and not just clean and in a box, and it has everything a new in box unit should have, then "maybe" it might have some special value, nothing else you mention does. The IIc has some collectible value in Japan, at least I know a couple japanese people who buy them at swap meets for like $10 and seem happy about it. That said I run across a fair amount of stuff that is long used, but clean, and stored in its original box minus the usual this and that people tend to lose over time. Many home users kept the original boxes, and put the stuff back in them for storage, and it doesn't give them much if any added value. $20 is often a nice token amount, much more an you are doing the person a big favor, even if it is new in box. Of course there are a few bits that change the value, but nothing suggests they are present. ******************************** Question for the rest of the group, is the RGB adapter/thingy worth looking for that goes on a IIc+? From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Mar 5 06:49:01 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles References: Message-ID: <001201c2e315$fdb4fb30$6d71fea9@amd1600plus> hello, what is the price? can you shipping it to france? mail me to : joe_web@worldonline.fr thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien Cymbal" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: fair price for apple articles > I'm not up on what is considered a good deal for old Apple hardware, but I > have a guy offering me the following and I'm wondering what I should be > considering. I haven't personally seen the stuff yet so I don't have all the > specifics, but he says it is all in good condition, running, yadda yadda "you > won't be disappointed." > > 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple monitors, > external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > > Sorry I can't be more precise at the moment, but maybe if I could get some > ballpark figures.... > > Thanks, > > dc From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 5 07:10:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England In-Reply-To: <641607361.20030305060650@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I have also experienced one of those construction equipment pieces, with a > big dirt-scoop that lifts up and down, lifting big VAX cabinets into a > truck. Tilt in, lift up, tilt out. It worked well, but there was an > experienced driver in the machine. Well, I used to be one of those drivers, working in my dad's place parttime and during the holidays. After 10 years or so, one becomes really good at it ;-) --f From wonko at 4amlunch.net Wed Mar 5 08:22:00 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: ; from Edward.Tillman@valero.com on Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 06:14:15AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20030305091204.E26788@zill.net> On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 06:14:15AM -0600, Tillman, Edward wrote: > Hmm... What's a P$Uer? someone who goes to P$U. also known as Penn State University. ;) hi bligh!! -brian From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Mar 5 08:35:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (philpem@dsl.pipex.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: King of the string has Stringy floppy day Message-ID: <200303051432.h25EW16V002524@philpem.dyndns.org> > > Anyway, anyone have experience with a stringy floppy for a > > commodore? It's called a "Quick Data Drive". > > I'm wondering if anyone actually *bought* these QDDs, every one I see > including my own are brand new and have a brand new system tape; people try > and sell 'em on epay as 'wow' etc :) Mine's badged as 'Entrepo' and I'm > pretty sure it's a single drive version of the Rotronics 'Wafadrive' that > was available for the Speccy and C64. I've got one too - but I didn't get a system tape or a blank tape with it. If anyone wants to part with a System tape and a few blanks, well, my email address is philpem {at} dsl {dot} pipex {dot} com. > That one was built round a BSR tape > mechanism (the same people that made vinyl turntables in the 70s). Yep - opened my QDD up - BSR's logo is on the tape mech. > I don't > think it can be classed as a stringy floppy though, since that accolade used > to belong to (in the UK anyway) a device called the 'Phloopy' which was a > plastic case similar to, but bigger than, the Sinclair Microdrive but > instead of a neverending reel of tape it just had the tape 'loose' inside > the cart..... And it never got tangled up? Amazing... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com ----------------------------------------- This message sent by OakMailer, a free/donation-ware script provided by Oakbox Productions http://www.oakbox.com. Anti-spam notice, this message originated from IP Address: 194.238.52.177 ----------------------------------------- From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Mar 5 08:39:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (philpem@dsl.pipex.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: WTD: Psion Organiser II Commslink, EPROM pak, etc Message-ID: <200303051436.h25EaFYK002558@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, I'm trying to track down a Comms Link and some EPROM, NVSRAM or FLASH memory "Paks" for my Psion Organiser II (XP model with two-line LCD). If anyone here has got any or all of these items available for sale, please contact me using the email address philpem {at} dsl {dot} pipex {dot} com. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ ----------------------------------------- This message sent by OakMailer, a free/donation-ware script provided by Oakbox Productions http://www.oakbox.com. Anti-spam notice, this message originated from IP Address: 194.238.52.177 ----------------------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 5 08:54:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Damien Cymbal wrote: > I'm not up on what is considered a good deal for old Apple hardware, but I > have a guy offering me the following and I'm wondering what I should be > considering. I haven't personally seen the stuff yet so I don't have all the > specifics, but he says it is all in good condition, running, yadda yadda "you > won't be disappointed." > > 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple monitors, > external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". $100 is fair. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 5 09:08:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Help Locating H8 Parts Message-ID: <00bf01c2e328$96e65670$6008dd40@oemcomputer> Does anyone know a source for H8 parts? I need to replace several buttons on the keypad or the entire keypad card. thanks in advance. From pzachary at sasquatch.com Wed Mar 5 09:17:00 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Rack mount rails/slide for BA23 References: Message-ID: <3E6614E1.6B83FC1C@sasquatch.com> the "correct" rack mounting I have for my BA23s is not rails, but a sheet metal box they slide in, you can get the same basic function using a couple of sheet metal (14GA) bits, bent into a L (or [ ] if you want to get fancy and are having a shop do the work, but if you do the [ ], you have to slot/hole/punch venting on the sides, if it is just L with a side of 1" or so, it seems to vent fine. Pavl_ "John A. Dundas III" wrote: > > I have an existing 11/73 in a BA23 mounted in an H9644 cabinet (I believe > this is called "low boy"?), effectively a 19" rack/cabinet. I would like > to mount another BA23 for a MicroVAX II in the same cabinet. I have the > uVAX but no rails for it. > > Any suggestion where to find these? Or what acceptable alternatives might > exist? > > Thanks, > > John > > --------------------------------------------------------- > John A. Dundas III > Director, Information Technology Services Infrastructure, Caltech > Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA 91125-8100 > Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 09:32:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 Message-ID: <20030305152901.36938.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Over in the Yahoo Group for the Cosmac Elf, a few of us have picked up these MSI/88 barcode "terminals" for a couple of bucks surplus. Mine arrived yesterday. They are interesting because they are hand-held 1802 devices with a serial port and either an LED or LCD text display (all of mine are the LED model). I'm trying to assist in the reverse engineering and can *not* find any data on the LED display itself, a MAN2815, nor one of the chips that seems to be driving it, a National DS8867. I have googled for an hour looking for them. No results. Anybody heard of these parts? -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Wed Mar 5 09:40:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles Message-ID: >> 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple monitors, >> external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > >$100 is fair. WOW! I can't believe Sellam of all people over priced this bundle. $100 is very generous for what is listed. Unless there are some really unusual monitors or software/manuals, then I don't think the lot is worth more than about $20, and that is more as a "thanks for letting me have it" gesture. I have aquired everything mentioned above (catagorically, obviously I don't have specifics on the monitors, drives, software, manuals), from the curbside garbage in the last six months. There could be things that bump the value up a bit. Such as the IIc being truely brand new never opened (and not just clean and reboxed). If the IIgs are Rom 0 units (or Woz units), and if the monitors or hard drives are large (20" monitors, and 10+ gig drives). The software and manuals, unless it is current release stuff, exotic hard to find stuff, or things you care about owning real copies of (vs abondonware copies), then it is of little value. Bear in mind, even if there are parts that pump up the value, you need to overcome the $20 "thank you" price first, so you start at $0 and go up, not start at $20 and go up. -chris From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 5 09:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor References: <200303050611.BAA3501388@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <003a01c2e32e$a7c065c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ... I didn't know whether the SCSI cabling for the disk > would fit inside the VS2000 box... That's all I meant. Somebody should say here that it's pretty strange to have a workstation that has all SCSI connectors on the outside and an MFM disk on the inside. I did a mental doubletake on this ("hey, this makes no sence") a short while ago. John A. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Mar 5 11:15:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: <001201c2e315$fdb4fb30$6d71fea9@amd1600plus> Message-ID: Hey, you never got back to me about the Mac Plus. Please let me know if you still want it. I have now found a keyboard and mouse I could ship with it, would be willing to include them for an additional US$5. If you don't let me know within a day, I will be reposting it to list as 'avalable'. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, [iso-8859-1] Joël Weber wrote: > hello, what is the price? can you shipping it to france? > mail me to : joe_web@worldonline.fr > thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Damien Cymbal" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:42 PM > Subject: fair price for apple articles > > > > I'm not up on what is considered a good deal for old Apple hardware, but I > > have a guy offering me the following and I'm wondering what I should be > > considering. I haven't personally seen the stuff yet so I don't have all > the > > specifics, but he says it is all in good condition, running, yadda yadda > "you > > won't be disappointed." > > > > 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple > monitors, > > external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > > > > Sorry I can't be more precise at the moment, but maybe if I could get some > > ballpark figures.... > > > > Thanks, > > > > dc From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 5 12:18:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, chris wrote: > >> 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple > monitors, > >> external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > > > >$100 is fair. > > WOW! I can't believe Sellam of all people over priced this bundle. > > $100 is very generous for what is listed. Unless there are some really > unusual monitors or software/manuals, then I don't think the lot is worth > more than about $20, and that is more as a "thanks for letting me have > it" gesture. My rough thought process: Apple //gs - $20 each Apple //c new in box - $50 Mac Plus - $5 Monitors - $5 each Misc. drives - $10 "scads of software and manuals" - I'm assuming "scads" is worth about $25 Total: $140 One quick no-hassle sale = $100 fair price > I have aquired everything mentioned above (catagorically, obviously I > don't have specifics on the monitors, drives, software, manuals), from > the curbside garbage in the last six months. Including a "new in the box" //c and "scads" of software? That's what I would value most in the lot mentioned. > There could be things that bump the value up a bit. Such as the IIc being > truely brand new never opened (and not just clean and reboxed). If the It doesn't need to be "never opened". Having the original box in good shape and the original manuals, is uncommon. > IIgs are Rom 0 units (or Woz units), and if the monitors or hard drives Woz signature units are of no real significance. > are large (20" monitors, and 10+ gig drives). The software and manuals, We're talking Apple ]['s here. 20" monitors and 10+ gig hard drives do not even come into the equation. > unless it is current release stuff, exotic hard to find stuff, or things > you care about owning real copies of (vs abondonware copies), then it is > of little value. That's where you are completely wrong and why you don't understand my pricing. The software, as long as most of it is in original boxes with original disks, is the real prize. Your opinion may vary on this of course, but the fact is that original software in the box is harder to find than the machines themselves. And without the software and manuals, the computer is just a pretty object. > Bear in mind, even if there are parts that pump up the value, you need to > overcome the $20 "thank you" price first, so you start at $0 and go up, > not start at $20 and go up. Fine, call it $50 if the seller just wants to dump it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 5 12:43:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867" (Mar 5, 7:29) References: <20030305152901.36938.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10303051840.ZM10167@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 7:29, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm trying to assist in the reverse > engineering and can *not* find any data on the LED display itself, a > MAN2815, nor one of the chips that seems to be driving it, a National > DS8867. > Anybody heard of these parts? Yes :-) The MAN series used to be popular but I'm afraid I don't have any data. However, I do have a data sheet for the DS8867 -- it gets a page-and-a-bit in the 1980 Nat Semi Interface Data Book: DS8867 is an 18-pin DIP 8-segment constant-current driver, designed to be driven from MOS circuits operateing at 8V +/-10% minimum, and will supply 14mA typical current to an LED display. Output current is not sensitive to Vcc variations. Features: internal current control - no external resistors 100% efficient - no standby power operates in 3- and 4-cell battery systems inputs and outputs grouped for easy PC placement Absolute maximum ratings: Vcc 7V input voltage 10V output voltage 10V Operating conditions: Vcc min 3.3V max 6.0V ambient temperature min 0deg C max 70deg C logical '1' input typ 4.9V max 5.4V logical '0' input typ 0.1uA max 10uA logical '1' output min -8mA typ -14mA max -18mA logical '0' output typ -0.5uA max -10uA Pinout is straightforward, pins 1..8 are inputs 1..8, pin 9 is ground, pins 10..17 are outputs 8..1 (ie the outputs are almost opposite the inputs), pin 18 is Vcc. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Mar 5 12:51:01 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: pinout of connectors on H777 PSU Message-ID: <3E664633.8498C761@xs4all.nl> Hi all, Is there someone who knows the values/meanings of the pins on the connectors (the ones at the back) of a H777 PSU? Thanks, Ed -- From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Mar 5 12:52:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: DEC VS2000 and SCSI, was Re: DEC RD54 from Maxtor Message-ID: <200303051848.h25ImQOG009814@io.crash.com> John Allain writes: . > Somebody should say here that it's pretty strange to have a > workstation that has all SCSI connectors on the outside and > an MFM disk on the inside. I did a mental doubletake on this > ("hey, this makes no sence") a short while ago. Since I haven't seen any other responses, I'll dive in... This is all speculation - I'd love to have someone with a line into DEC Engineering answer this properly. To put it another way, I may be completely off my rocker - reader beware! ;^) The VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000 was released in 1985 (cf. R.D. Davis' uVAX FAQ), which means development and planning may have started as early as 1983 - I'm just guessing here. In the early 80s large (> 20MB) ST-506 hard drives were still hugely expensive beasts. If you did find a native SCSI device, I imagine the costs would be much higher for the extra interface logic on the drive. Without native SCSI on the device, you needed a translator like the Adaptec ACB-4000 (SCSI/ST-506) or Emulex MT-02 (SCSI/QIC-02). The base VS2000 was a pretty small box - perhaps even ground- breaking for this timeframe, given it could run full 32-bit uVMS or Ultrix and had internal storage, unlike the Sun-2/50. Having to develop and wedge in a unique converter board may have been riskier than adapting a version of a board you were already producing/ designing for the other uVAX models like the RQDX3. Going back to that comparison to the Sun-2/50 may answer the question of why SCSI was acceptable for the tape interface. Since the tape drive was going to be external, there's plenty of room for that extra logic board. And it's only a tape drive, so if we can't get decent throughput out of our first (?) SCSI interface, well, who's going to notice when the tape drive is as slow as the TK50? ;^) After a few years of Apple, Sun, and others driving SCSI into the marketplace the whole picture changed and by the time the first pizza box workstations come out everything is SCSI. Anyway, that's my best shot at an explanation. Again, I'd love to hear from someone who was inside DEC (Megan?)... --Steve. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 5 13:03:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, chris wrote: > >> 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple > monitors, > >> external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > >$100 is fair. > WOW! I can't believe Sellam of all people over priced this bundle. That depends; how many manuals are there per scad? Besides, What is "fair", What it's "worth", What it'd get on e-Bay, What Sellam would be willing to pay, are all different. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 13:04:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 In-Reply-To: <10303051840.ZM10167@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030305190109.15289.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 5, 7:29, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I... can *not* find any data on the LED display itself, a > > MAN2815, nor... a National DS8867. > > Yes :-) The MAN series used to be popular but I'm afraid I don't have > any data. I have some MAN series displays in my Dragon's Lair scoreboard, but they are simple 7-segment devices (and scanned schematics are available) Thanks for the tip on the DS8867. The description matches perfectly with where it is on the board. -ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Mar 5 13:15:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles References: Message-ID: <04e201c2e34a$f5cb4660$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:59 PM Subject: Re: fair price for apple articles > On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, chris wrote: > > >> 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple > > monitors, > > >> external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > > >$100 is fair. > > WOW! I can't believe Sellam of all people over priced this bundle. > > That depends; how many manuals are there per scad? > > Besides, > What is "fair", > What it's "worth", > What it'd get on e-Bay, > What Sellam would be willing to pay, > are all different. > And your point is? :-) Stuart Johnson From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 13:37:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: DEC VS2000 and SCSI, was Re: DEC RD54 from Maxtor In-Reply-To: <200303051848.h25ImQOG009814@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <20030305193409.15505.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Steve Jones wrote: > uVAX FAQ), which means development and planning may have started > as early as 1983 - I'm just guessing here. > > In the early 80s large (> 20MB) ST-506 hard drives were still > hugely expensive beasts. If you did find a native SCSI device, I > imagine the costs would be much higher for the extra interface logic > on the drive. Without native SCSI on the device, you needed a > translator like the Adaptec ACB-4000 (SCSI/ST-506) or Emulex MT-02 > (SCSI/QIC-02). I bought my first microcomputer hard drive in 1987. It was an ST-225 that I attached to an Amiga 1000 over an 8-bit ISA bus adapter called "The Wedge" - the drive (with WX-1 ISA controller) was around $350. ISTR that bare ST-225 drives were right around $300-$325. Between the PC drive/controller and the Amiga adapter plus an external (used) enclosure, I put 20MB on my Amiga for around $500 total. At the same time, a C Ltd SCSI interface plus external 20MB SCSI drive (probably an ST-225 + ACB-4000, not certain) was $1,000. I do not think that the uVAX-2000 ever shipped with anything as small as 20MB. All the ones I've seen had either RD53s (71MB) or RD54s (154MB). DEC, of course, charged a huge amount per megabyte for their drives, so my comparison of the costs of an Amiga drive have to be taken into that context. I do not know why DEC decided to go with SCSI for the uVAX-2000 tape. That they went with ST506/ST412 disk drives is no surprise - it was what they had been working with since the uVAX-I/RQDX1, Rainbow and DECmate - if you wanted 5.25" storage, your choices in 1983-1985 were limited to ST506/ST412 and ESDI (ESDI cost even more, but it was higher performance). Even the Mac drives weren't embedded SCSI until later, and then, 20MB was generous (ST-225N in 5.25" width, and a number of 3.5" models from various vendors). I'm surprised that DEC didn't make a wierd buffered cable/interface for the raw TK50 interface. Given how much hardware is on the board in a TK50Z, I suppose there wasn't room. The SCSI circuit on the uVAX2000 motherboard takes up only a few square inches (the 5380 chip itself, a minimal amount of select logic, plus the connector at the back). So... just a couple of data points on drive costs of the era when the uVAX-2000 was surfacing. I saw my first one at a DECUS in either Anaheim or Cincinnati around 1987 or 1988 (not that they were new then, but they were new to me - everywhere I'd worked, it was all Unibus and Qbus VAXen). -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 5 14:20:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: <04e201c2e34a$f5cb4660$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > >> external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > > > >$100 is fair. > > > WOW! I can't believe Sellam of all people over priced this bundle. > > That depends; how many manuals are there per scad? > And your point is? :-) Just that all pricing is subjective; and that "fair" is relative. I've seen a box of books worth WAY more than a dumpster full of stuff. On more than one occasion, Sellam bought stuff from me, and told me where and how I could sell the stuff for more than he was willing to pay. He has always been honorable in differentiating the value v the price. When he says that a price is "fair", that doesn't necessarily mean that he would pay that much for it. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Mar 5 14:42:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles Message-ID: >Apple //gs - $20 each Wanna buy some from me?!? At that price I'll be happy to sell you a few. >Apple //c new in box - $50 If it is really new in box, then yeah, I could agree with that price. But I have seen MANY things claimed as "new in box" that are really "we used it for 12 years, and before throwing it out realized we still had the old box so we repacked it". I have seen very few really new in box items, so I am sceptical to those claims. >Mac Plus - $5 >Monitors - $5 each >Misc. drives - $10 >"scads of software and manuals" - I'm assuming "scads" is worth about $25 I consider all of the above to be "Thanks" prices. ie: they really aren't worth anything, but you feel compelled to give the person something for being nice enough to save you the effort of digging thru the trash to get it. In my opinion, Thanks prices don't really add up. Kind of like coupon actual value prices. Its worth $1.00 during the transaction, but if you add the value up, you find it is worth half a cent. So 10 monitors @ $5 each would not equal $50, but rather maybe $10 if you were feeling good. >Including a "new in the box" //c and "scads" of software? That's what I >would value most in the lot mentioned. Got about 3 moving boxes full of assorted software just a few months ago. All that was headed to the dumpster (I intercepted it on the way). About half Mac, half PC. I also got 2 paper case boxes of IIgs software not much before that, probably 20 or so titles, most in their boxes. All free. >> are large (20" monitors, and 10+ gig drives). The software and manuals, > >We're talking Apple ]['s here. 20" monitors and 10+ gig hard drives do >not even come into the equation. I went under the assumption that it could refer to Mac monitors and hard drives since there are Macs included in the list. Actually, now that I think of it, if we are talking about Apple II hard drives (regardless of size), then those are worth something as they are much tougher to find. >That's where you are completely wrong and why you don't understand my >pricing. The software, as long as most of it is in original boxes with >original disks, is the real prize. Your opinion may vary on this of >course, but the fact is that original software in the box is harder to >find than the machines themselves. And without the software and manuals, >the computer is just a pretty object. Yes, we differ here. You fit into the exclusion that I mentioned. That is, you care about having real copies of software. So to YOU the software might be worth something. There are lots of people like me that could care less about original copies, vs getting an "abondonware" copy off an FTP site or so. To people like me, software is of no real $$ value. What's interesting here is I see your point with your pricing. You consider some items to be of value, that I don't. And vice versa (I find some value in a Woz IIgs). So it just goes to show, when pricing things, you can't rely on one source for info, and you should shop around to figure out the best place to market stuff. Maybe this is why eBay prices are always so high... with the wide audience, they increase the odds of hitting someone that lays value on the item. And I'm still amazed that you would give a decent price. I had thought of you as a person that will always claim things are worth far less than they are just to keep prices down. I miss judged you... it must just really be a pure hatred of eBay instead. :-) -chris From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Mar 5 15:37:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 Message-ID: <3E666D36.9010508@Vishay.com> Barry, didn't you ask (under the pseudonym of Fred Feuerstein) for a description of the switches on a DS120 Terminal Controller? I managed to find a user manual from the stone age, stating that the "Logic Card" is part number 512000-2. Not quite the 5120000-1 that you mention in your posting, but possibly close enough to provide hints for what functions might be there. YMMV... This is what the manual says about the DIP switches: SWITCH FUNCTION 1 Carriage motor disable (test only) * 2 Reverse channel override * 3 FDX/HDX override * 4 Local Auto-LF override ** 5 Parity odd (ON) parity even (ON) ** 6 Parity enable (ON) parity disable (OFF) 7 AUTO-LF from line (ON) disable (OFF) ** 8 X-on, X-off handshaking enable (ON) disable (OFF) * On DECwriter models with the 8-key control pad, these switches are duplicated on the keyboard. Those models with the 3 rocker-switch panel must control these features with the DIP-switches. ** See Appendix B, "Additional User Information", for a functional description of these switches. End of cite. Appendix B talks a lot about half-duplex modes, which I presume will not be used with your PDP-11. Hence, you will want to have switches 2 & 3 in the OFF position. The description of switch 5 obviously contains an error. For even parity, the switch needs to be in the OFF position (says appendix B). Another noteworthy cite: "If parity is disabled by DIPswitch #6 "OFF", then DIPswitch #5 provides 8th bit spacing when "ON" and 8th bit marking when "OFF"." In other words, you actually cannot select "no parity", but you can set "mark" or "space" parity. You report having trouble with the 20mA interface. Maybe you need to switch from active to passive or vice versa? - Here's what the manual has about it: 3.1.3 20 MA CURRENT LOOP A 20mA current loop interface is provided featuring a photo isolated receiver and transmitter. The receiver and transmitter may be configured to operate in either passive or active mode. Unless otherwise specified at the time of purchase, the DS120 comes configured with a passive transmitter and receiver. Although specified at 20 mA, the signal line currents flowing in the receiver loop may be as high as 80 mA without harming the interface. Any current in excess of 15 mA will be interpreted as a mark, and any current under 3 mA is interpreted as a space. 1500 volts of isolation is provided by the photo isolater if passive is employed. The jumper configuration for the current loop interface is as follows: W1 W2 W3 W4 W5 W6 W7 W8 W13 W14 ------------------------------------------------------------------- PASSIVE Out In In In In Out Out Out Out Out ACTIVE In Out Out Out Out In In In In In The connections for this interface are as follows: PIN 2: Transmit - 3: Receive - 5: Transmit + 7: Receive + End of cite. Hope this helps. If you need more information, I can get whatever is printed in the manual for you. I do have a LA36, but it features the original DEC controller board, so I have no way of actually trying anything. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Mar 5 16:08:01 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: gochange.net In-Reply-To: <3E666D36.9010508@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030305165829.01d5ded8@pop-server> I received a solicitation for some software that caught my interest from gochange.net I never heard of it and they want me to register before I can get in touch with the seller. Does anybody here have any experience with this site/organization? From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 5 16:20:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E66772E.7020109@internet1.net> chris wrote: > If it is really new in box, then yeah, I could agree with that price. But > I have seen MANY things claimed as "new in box" that are really "we used > it for 12 years, and before throwing it out realized we still had the old > box so we repacked it". I have seen very few really new in box items, so > I am skeptical to those claims. I have a new in the box Imagewriter //, that I bought at Goodwill. The shipping box looks bad, from water, and the interface cable is missing, but everything else is intact (unopened)....Super serial card, print cartridge, power cable, paper work. The printer look perfect, and even has the plastic and tape on it still on it. I was amazed when I figured out that it had never been used before. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 5 16:38:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again In-Reply-To: <1653806673.20030304195549@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Mar 4, 3 07:55:49 pm Message-ID: > My multimeter shows the following voltages on the mate-n-lock connectors > J3,5,7,9,11 relative to pin 8 (ground): > > +15V at pin 6 > +5V at pin 12 > -15V at pin 15 > > The printset -- specifically, sheet 2 of 5410864-0-1 "PWR DIST BOARD" (page > 40 of the BA11-K FMPS PDF I downloaded) -- leads me to believe that these > voltages can come only from the H745. Are you sure? I've not got the prints in front of me, but I thought all the -15V lines came from the H754 module, and the +5Vs from H744/H7440/H7441 modules. With the +15V coming from the PCB under the mains transformer. Oh, hang on.. I know what you're seeing, I think. Those are the Vb (battery-backed) lines. The battery backup interface brick fits in place of the H745 -- the idea being that you only need the H745 if you have core memory, which is non-volatile, and you only need the battery backup unit if you have (volatile) MOS memory. The battery interface uses a different 8 pin mate-n-lock connector in the harness, though. If you don't have the battery backup unit, then the Vb lines are linked to the normal rails via jumpers (on the backplane I believe). -tony From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 5 16:41:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > When he says that a price is "fair", that doesn't necessarily mean that he > would pay that much for it. This is true. *I* wouldn't pay $100 for it, but I was being subjective in my valuation. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 5 17:00:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, chris wrote: > >Apple //gs - $20 each > > Wanna buy some from me?!? At that price I'll be happy to sell you a few. No thanks. I already have close to a dozen myself. > >Apple //c new in box - $50 > > If it is really new in box, then yeah, I could agree with that price. But > I have seen MANY things claimed as "new in box" that are really "we used > it for 12 years, and before throwing it out realized we still had the old > box so we repacked it". I have seen very few really new in box items, so > I am sceptical to those claims. Whether it is truly "new" in the box or just includes the original box makes little difference, particularly in this case, since having the original box for any old computer is not common. It adds a certain premium to the machine for those that value such things (as do I, mainly since it definitely has historic relevance). > >Mac Plus - $5 > >Monitors - $5 each > >Misc. drives - $10 > >"scads of software and manuals" - I'm assuming "scads" is worth about $25 > > I consider all of the above to be "Thanks" prices. ie: they really aren't > worth anything, but you feel compelled to give the person something for > being nice enough to save you the effort of digging thru the trash to get > it. Exactly. Which is why my end price basically discounted these things from the itemized pricing. However, you are still undervaluing the software and manuals. Assume they had 20-25 original software packages consisting of games, applications, utilities, etc. Each had the original disks, manuals, and miscellaneous inserts such as reply cards, warranty cards, etc. I would say this software is worth more than all of the computers combined. However, this is because I have all those machines in spades, but I am always in search of original software packages that I don't have, and I'm sure there are plenty out there that I don't. So any software I find is always a good find. > In my opinion, Thanks prices don't really add up. Kind of like coupon > actual value prices. Its worth $1.00 during the transaction, but if you > add the value up, you find it is worth half a cent. So 10 monitors @ $5 > each would not equal $50, but rather maybe $10 if you were feeling good. Yes, again note the differential in my itemized pricing--$140--versus my lot price--$100. > Got about 3 moving boxes full of assorted software just a few months ago. > All that was headed to the dumpster (I intercepted it on the way). About > half Mac, half PC. I also got 2 paper case boxes of IIgs software not > much before that, probably 20 or so titles, most in their boxes. All free. Congratulations. That is quite a score. However, the original question was "what is a fair value for this stuff?" It would not be reasonable to say, "Oh, Chris just got three moving boxes worth of software for free, so therefore I would value that portion of the lot at $0." > I went under the assumption that it could refer to Mac monitors and hard > drives since there are Macs included in the list. Actually, now that I > think of it, if we are talking about Apple II hard drives (regardless of > size), then those are worth something as they are much tougher to find. The lot included a Mac Plus. Even if it did have an external hard drive, it would likely be a 20 or 40 megger. I was also assuming that the hard drive was for the Apple ][, but that much is not at all clear. Either way, it evens out. Yes, Apple ][ hard disk systems are not that easy to come by. > >That's where you are completely wrong and why you don't understand my > >pricing. The software, as long as most of it is in original boxes with > >original disks, is the real prize. Your opinion may vary on this of > >course, but the fact is that original software in the box is harder to > >find than the machines themselves. And without the software and manuals, > >the computer is just a pretty object. > > Yes, we differ here. You fit into the exclusion that I mentioned. That > is, you care about having real copies of software. So to YOU the software > might be worth something. There are lots of people like me that could > care less about original copies, vs getting an "abondonware" copy off an > FTP site or so. To people like me, software is of no real $$ value. Ok, to each his own, but the point of collecting computers is to preserve them and their history. Well, it turns out that much of that collective "history" is represented by the manuals and software, especially the originals, because the artwork on the box and the miscellaneous stuff that comes inside are all telling of the culture of computing at the time the software was published and also lend use to various avenues of research that we may or may not realize right now. Future generations may glean something useful out of the packaging that we don't today. Therefore, it is important to save. Also, if you saw my library of software (several walls by now), believe me when I say you would be in awe. I doubt you would be willing to admit that it had no value, either monetary, historical, or cultural. > What's interesting here is I see your point with your pricing. You > consider some items to be of value, that I don't. And vice versa (I find > some value in a Woz IIgs). So it just goes to show, when pricing things, > you can't rely on one source for info, and you should shop around to > figure out the best place to market stuff. Maybe this is why eBay prices > are always so high... with the wide audience, they increase the odds of > hitting someone that lays value on the item. Well, of course. My valuations are based on my experience, my knowledge, and to an extent how important I perceive the object under scrutiny to be. Each person's opinion of this will differ, but you also have to take into account the credibility of the valuer as well as their motivations. > And I'm still amazed that you would give a decent price. I had thought of > you as a person that will always claim things are worth far less than > they are just to keep prices down. I miss judged you... it must just > really be a pure hatred of eBay instead. :-) Well, I hate eBay for many reasons, mostly having to do with their policies, but my main gripe is that yes, prices do tend to inflate rather pompously there. All in all, I'm a cheap bastard, and I have to be in order to be able to collect what I do at the scale that I do, and then be able to manage that collection. At the risk of sounding pretentious, I am not doing this just for my own gratification. This is definitely a whole lot of fun and I enjoy this hobby immensely, but this collection will live beyond me, and in order for that to happen, I have to be conservative in various ways. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Mar 5 17:04:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: gochange.net In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030305165829.01d5ded8@pop-server> References: <3E666D36.9010508@Vishay.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20030305165829.01d5ded8@pop-server> Message-ID: <4432.4.20.168.142.1046905050.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Gene wrote: > I received a solicitation for some software that caught my interest from > gochange.net > I never heard of it and they want me to register before I can get in > touch with the seller. > Does anybody here have any experience with this site/organization? Don't tell me you're actually considering doing business with a spammer??? Ugh! From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 5 17:52:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay Message-ID: <20030305233332.UXNI10288.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit/Early Hobbyist First http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=177&item=3404840450&rd=1 Can I claim dibs? From avickers at solutionengineers.com Wed Mar 5 18:26:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: HP 7850B plotter Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306002128.01ccdba8@slave> I know of someone who is looking to dispose of a HP7850B plotter, stands about 4ft tall, prints on A0 paper. Located, I think, in Norfolk. If anyone is interested, let me know ASAP, and I'll get the chap to grab hold of it. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 5 18:31:00 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <20030305233332.UXNI10288.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <004f01c2e377$20637ec0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Dibs? No such thing on ebay ;) I picked up a kit from this fellow on Ebay, just the PCBs and chips- and everything looks good. As for dibs, you'll have to convince the other bidders ;) Likely, the fellow mas many other kits available, so email him. Personally I'd just buy the PCBs, hard to get chips (CPU, latches, srams) and the toggle switches. You can come up with a power supply and case yourself and not get pay for their expensive shipping. cheers H. "Mike" wrote Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay > Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit/Early Hobbyist First > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=177&item=3404840450&r d=1 > > Can I claim dibs? From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Mar 5 18:37:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Got about 3 moving boxes full of assorted software just a few months ago. > > All that was headed to the dumpster (I intercepted it on the way). About > > half Mac, half PC. I also got 2 paper case boxes of IIgs software not > > much before that, probably 20 or so titles, most in their boxes. All free. > > Congratulations. That is quite a score. However, the original question > was "what is a fair value for this stuff?" It would not be reasonable to > say, "Oh, Chris just got three moving boxes worth of software for free, so > therefore I would value that portion of the lot at $0." I've managed to get lots of my things for free to near free, but I'm not going to go claim that they're not worth anything. Of course, there are things that are worthless to me that aren't worthless to other people. What things are worth depends a lot on who's buying them. > Ok, to each his own, but the point of collecting computers is to preserve > them and their history. Well, it turns out that much of that collective > "history" is represented by the manuals and software, especially the > originals, because the artwork on the box and the miscellaneous stuff that > comes inside are all telling of the culture of computing at the time the > software was published and also lend use to various avenues of research > that we may or may not realize right now. Future generations may glean > something useful out of the packaging that we don't today. Therefore, it > is important to save. I think this is a possible difference between two 'camps' of collectors:" those who want a collection to display, and are very much interested in history and authenticity, and those who rather have a machine that they can hack on, and is functional. Most collectors probably fall somewhere between, but tend to gravitate towards one or the other. I seem to fit more into the second category; however, that doesn't mean that I could care less about the history... a number of things in my collection I got because "they're cool" or "I wished I had one when I was a kid". But to me, if the machine doesn't function, it's worthless as an item in my collection - it's either going to get fixed, junked to repair other things, or thrown out if it's too much hastle to attempt a repair. Of course, the amount of hassle it is also depends on how much I really want it to work. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From ericj at speakeasy.org Wed Mar 5 18:45:00 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: DaynaFile Message-ID: Has anyone managed to find drivers for the DaynaFile? I have a couple I'd like to experiment with. One non-functional, unfortunately, but I pulled the rom on it to image it and attempt a disassembly. I have another that appears to work, or at least responds to a scsi inquiry. I plan to hook it up to a logic analyzer to get a memory map of the board. The logic boards on the two I have are simple, with common parts in clip-friendly 40-pin dip packages: scsi: DP5380 floppy: WD2793 micro: 8031 Documentation is available for all of these, so a person could potentially write new firmware. Probably much easier than disassembling the rom. I remember using a DaynaFile on a NeXT cube with an old (ca.1990?) version of Nextstep, so there are potentially Nextstep drivers out there as well. Regards, -- Eric Josephson From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Mar 5 18:52:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:04 2005 Subject: NOS equipment worth less than used? (was: fair price...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030306011524.GH12223@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe chris, from writings of Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 03:38:43PM -0500: > If it is really new in box, then yeah, I could agree with that price. But If it's "new" in this sense, then it's old and never used, which, to my way of thinking, means that it should be worth less. Having never been used, some capacitors may have gone bad and the equipment hasn't demonstrated that it's survived a burn-in period; the chances of failure are higher. Hence, should not a NOS (new old stock) system be worth less than a system that's been used, but not used enough to have mechanical and electro-mechanical, components worn, or wearing, out. Any thoughts on this? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Mar 5 19:03:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <20030305233332.UXNI10288.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <043701c2e37b$c9b0b980$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I saw this and asked the seller if it was an "original" kit from the 70s or if it's a current reproduction. I'm guessing it's current, but I'm going to wait for the reply (or ask again since it's been a day or two). It looks cool either way. Oh, yeah: I had dibs first! :) Erik From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 5 19:51:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs References: Message-ID: <004c01c2e381$e4064e20$0400fea9@game> I tried to load 6.01 this morning but the system screen stops when the OS bar gets under the S on the screen during boot (disk drive light dies out also). I checked the system from the bios diagnostic and everything checked out as system ok. The system has the 1meg card with full population of chips and both jumpers are on (apple brand memory upgrade), so I assume it should boot off the 6.01 disk market system (The unit unfortunatly doesnt have a hard drive just 5.25 and 3.5 floppy). I used a Q840AV to make the 3.5 DSDD disks from apples images. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Primus" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIgs > I have the actual floppies for the IIgs System Software Update 4.0, but > I don't know if this is a full, useable system, or just an update, I > have never used them, seeming as though Apple has System 6.0.1 for free > download on their FTP. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > On Sunday, March 2, 2003, at 08:47 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > >> Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted > >> something to > >> tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no > >> software for > >> it at the moment. > > > > Why before 6.0? GS/OS 6 will work just fine on a 1MB IIgs (I've done > > it). > > > > -- > > ----------------------------- personal page: > > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > > -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives > > can't cure. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 5 19:58:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Got about 3 moving boxes full of assorted software just a few months ago. . > > Congratulations. That is quite a score. However, the original question > > was "what is a fair value for this stuff?" It would not be reasonable to > > say, "Oh, Chris just got three moving boxes worth of software for free, so > > therefore I would value that portion of the lot at $0." . > I've managed to get lots of my things for free to near free, but I'm not > going to go claim that they're not worth anything. Of course, there are "Harvey bought an Apple at a yard sale for $5; under the motherboard were some krugerrands. Therefore any deal worse than that is no good!" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 5 20:05:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: HP 59501 docs? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030305210839.4727dae2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have docs or at least some instructions for the HP 59501 HP-IB isolated D-A/Power Supply Programmer? Joe From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 20:12:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs In-Reply-To: <004c01c2e381$e4064e20$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <8D376EC5-4F78-11D7-A57C-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> IIRC, the IIgs sometimes did funny things if you had the 5 1/4 floppies connected to the computer before the 3 1/2 inch drives, because then the Apple 3.5" drives wouldn't sense one of the signals. A general rule of thumb is - Apple 3.5's first, then Unidisk 3.5, then 5 1/4. I don't know if this has anything to do with your problem, but it's worth a shot. Also, make sure the drives and disks involved are working properly. I've had worn DSDD floppies that worked fine in a Superdrive-equipped Mac, but wouldn't read properly on an 800k drive. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 08:44 PM, TeoZ wrote: > I tried to load 6.01 this morning but the system screen stops when the > OS > bar gets under the S on the screen during boot (disk drive light dies > out > also). I checked the system from the bios diagnostic and everything > checked > out as system ok. > > The system has the 1meg card with full population of chips and both > jumpers > are on (apple brand memory upgrade), so I assume it should boot off > the 6.01 > disk market system (The unit unfortunatly doesnt have a hard drive > just 5.25 > and 3.5 floppy). > > I used a Q840AV to make the 3.5 DSDD disks from apples images. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Primus" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 9:34 PM > Subject: Re: Apple IIgs > > >> I have the actual floppies for the IIgs System Software Update 4.0, >> but >> I don't know if this is a full, useable system, or just an update, I >> have never used them, seeming as though Apple has System 6.0.1 for >> free >> download on their FTP. >> >> Ian Primus >> ian_primus@yahoo.com >> >> On Sunday, March 2, 2003, at 08:47 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> >>>> Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted >>>> something to >>>> tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no >>>> software for >>>> it at the moment. >>> >>> Why before 6.0? GS/OS 6 will work just fine on a 1MB IIgs (I've done >>> it). >>> >>> -- >>> ----------------------------- personal page: >>> http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- >>> Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * >>> ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >>> -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives >>> can't cure. From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Mar 5 20:13:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <043701c2e37b$c9b0b980$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <056501c2e385$6b5fef40$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 7:00 PM Subject: RE: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay > I saw this and asked the seller if it was an "original" kit from the 70s > or if it's a current reproduction. > > I'm guessing it's current, but I'm going to wait for the reply (or ask > again since it's been a day or two). > > It looks cool either way. > > Oh, yeah: I had dibs first! :) > > Erik I saw another seller recently on eBay with a Mark-8 (reproduction) kit, primarily the boards. He said that he was making the boards and would be selling more. What I saw looked nice. I looked briefly, but did not locate the auction or a link of any sort to the seller. Perhaps one of the more interested parties can find additional info. Stuart Johnson From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Mar 5 21:08:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <056501c2e385$6b5fef40$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <044601c2e38d$1d4e9ba0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> > I saw another seller recently on eBay with a Mark-8 (reproduction) kit, > primarily the boards. He said that he was making the boards and would be > selling more. What I saw looked nice. > I looked briefly, but did not locate the auction or a link of any sort to > the seller. Perhaps one of the more interested parties can find additional >info. I've been in touch with that other seller and even sent him a scanned picture of a Mark-8 out of one of my old magazines. I'll ask his permission to circulate his email address for anyone interested in the kits he's selling. Erik From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 5 21:14:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: DOS compatible mode for HP 9127? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030305221800.0f1fbeb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The HP 9127 is a HP-IB 5 1/4" floppy drive and normally it reads and writes a LIF format but there's supposed to be a way to have it read and write disks in a MS-DOS compatible mode. Does anyone know how to do it? I've been playing with different formatting options but so far I haven't found the right one. Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 5 21:52:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Article on computer collecting in today's Guardian (IUK) In-Reply-To: <3E6521B3.5080607@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 04 March 2003 21:59 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Article on computer collecting in today's Guardian (IUK) > > > Just a quick note to point out the article by Christine Finn in > today's Guardian newspaper: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,906984,00.html > Bah - if I'd known that was coming up I'd have asked them to print, in big letters, "GIVE BINARYDINOSAURS A PERMANENT HOME" :) All I need to find is a rich benefactor who has tons of spare space and is into vintage computing and I'll be sorted! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From bill at timeguy.com Wed Mar 5 21:52:17 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Compaq Portable & Portable III Free to a Good Home Message-ID: <20030305074300.Y69684-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> I have an orginal Compaq luggable (green screen) and a Portable III (orange/amber plasma screen) that are under foot. If you can pick them up in Nebraska, they're yours. If you want me to ship them, I'll let Mailboxes Etc. do the packing and shipping, so it won't be cheap. Both work fine and are in excellent condition. The III is like new; I replaced the old plasma screen (which was badly burned in and faded) just before I quit using it. It also has a removable "backpack" on it with two ISA card slots for network cards or whatever. First come, first served. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 5 21:52:23 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: <3E652CCC.11711.738207CB@localhost> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Hans Franke > Sent: 04 March 2003 21:47 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Atari ST spares > > > but it appears that the floppy is toast since it continually > tries to seek > > track 0 and won't read/write even Atari format disks. > > I'm not shure, but wheren't the floppy select signals also > generated by the keyboard controller? They were/are on the Amiga (Paula) but I'm not sure about the ST. I'm hopefully getting another ST this week, and I'll also play swapsies with the museum's ST to see if the keyboard is breaking the floppy. Nobody mentioned that on comp.sys.atari.st though. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From mark at ns.vbilt.com Wed Mar 5 21:52:28 2003 From: mark at ns.vbilt.com (mar van) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: dc600 Message-ID: Know of anyone who would need dc600 type cartrige tapes? Pics at http://vbilt.com/tape/tape40.jpg Mark From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Mar 5 21:52:33 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 04 March 2003 23:17 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! > > > Anyway; the haul included MINC with 2 modules and the following boards: > > Only 2 modules (I assume the DAC and Clock that were mentioned) :-(. > Pity. You really need at least the ADC to do anything useful with it. I'm sure one will turn up sometime in the future; knowing my luck someone will give me another fully populated MINC next week :) And then I'll get battered off the missus. The DAC has one cable coming off it that terminates in a female D25, but the previous owner didn't know what it was used for since he was given it by someone else! > > M8029 RXV21 RX02 controller > > M8044 MSV11 RAM board > > M7270 (I think) 11/23 CPU > > Isn;t that an 11/03? Yep! > Odd there's no LPV11. That was standard on the MINC IIRC. Apart from > that, it sounds like a standard MINC configuration (the IBV11 is a GPIB > interface, BTW...) If one or both of the DECwriters that came with the bundle were used on the MINC they'll have been serial anyway, so no need for an LPV11.... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From grrepa at hotmail.com Wed Mar 5 21:52:40 2003 From: grrepa at hotmail.com (REBECCA NELSON) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: osborne 1 Message-ID: Hi there, I have an old osborne 1 with a fan, software, and several issues of fog.  I wondering where I can sell or donate this computer.  It looks like new & I believe it still works. thanks grrepa@hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* From brendle at ems.psu.edu Wed Mar 5 21:52:47 2003 From: brendle at ems.psu.edu (Jeff Brendle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: <20030305091204.E26788@zill.net> Message-ID: Hi, Wonko =-) .... "ooops" sorry about the stupid lingo, yeah, P$U = Penn State, I didn't even think about it before typing, have been using that one for so long ... of course having said that there once was an Amiga user group on campus, I now can't seem to find a reference to who it was that ran it way back when. (sigh) anyways.... hopefully someone can get him going with this old box. He did find the right place.... =-) -j On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 09:12 AM, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 06:14:15AM -0600, Tillman, Edward wrote: >> Hmm... What's a P$Uer? > > someone who goes to P$U. also known as Penn State University. ;) > > hi bligh!! > > -brian > Jeff Brendle Office: 248A Deike Bldg./(814)865-3257/fax 863-7708 Desktop Support Spv. Home: #210 Parkgate 349 Toftrees Ave. Penn State - Coll. of E&MS State College, PA / (814)861-8180 Mailto:bli@psu.edu AOL/MSN/Yahoo! IM - JSBrendle From mhstein at canada.com Wed Mar 5 21:52:53 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 Message-ID: <01C2E326.1A09AFA0@mse-d03> -------------------------Original Message----------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:29:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Looking for data on the MAN2815 display and Nat'l Semi DS8867 ...I'm trying to assist in the reverse engineering and can *not* find any data on the LED display itself, a MAN2815, nor one of the chips that seems to be driving it, a National DS8867. I have googled for an hour looking for them. No results. Anybody heard of these parts? -ethan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Can't help ya with the display, but I do have specs on the DS8867: 8-segment constant current LED driver for 3 and 4 cell battery systems, designed to be driven from MOS circuit(s). Pins 1-8: Input 1-8, 10V max Pins 17-10: Output 1-8, 14ma typical Vcc:18, 6V max GND:9 Sorry, don't see a segment map in the databook; assume 1=a etc. Anything else ya need to know? mike From stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net Wed Mar 5 21:52:58 2003 From: stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: MINC-11 for sale on eBay Message-ID: <05c301c2e38d$ec2a1530$0200a8c0@cosmo> There is another MINC-11 on eBay for those prepared with some $$$ in their pockets. The opening price is $19.99 and the auction will run for 9 days (until March 15th at 10:02 PM Pacific time). Here is the title: "DEC PDP MINC-11 System (RARE)" and the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3404934502&r d=1 This one appears to be pretty complete; it has the dual floppies and a monitor with it. Enjoy, Stuart Johnson From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Mar 5 22:36:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c2e399$c3411900$3701a8c0@benchbox> Don't bother trying to take the face off the machine. The case was designed by someone with a real sense of humor. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 8:31 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question I've managed to find the pieces (or at least the most important, which is one of my two RD54's) to do some performance testing on Doc's recent idea of using a network disk instead of a local disk to get better performance than a RQDX3/RD54 combo offers. As a result I'm trying to get either a VAXstation 4000/60 or /90 setup so that I can use it as the host. In doing this I ran into a slight problem with VAX/VMS V5.5-2, it doesn't like my 3rd party SCSI disks that I've got in the /90. Not a big problem as I've got some brand new (!) RZ25's that I can put into one of the systems, and I want to put a RRD42 into one of them as well. Stupid question, how to I go about getting the cover off of the 5 1/4" bay, and am I supposed to have another piece of plastic to go there? If it requires another piece of plastic (that I don't have), I'll just hook the drive up internally long enough to do the install. Now to decide which system gets a V5.5-2 install, I'll probably go with the /90 as it's my fastest VAX, and will therefore be the best for building software on. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Mar 5 22:49:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: making disk images In-Reply-To: <015b01c2e1f5$07cf52e0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <001201c2e39b$915f4090$3701a8c0@benchbox> Nerves away!. I've used Tom's RTBT for years. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Robert F. Schaefer Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:23 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: making disk images ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 12:55 AM Subject: Re: making disk images > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > > Tom's Root/Boot Disk > > http://www.toms.net/rb This looks like it might be a winner. I'm a little nervous about the 1.7MB format, but WTH. Oh-- hmmm... It just occured to me that the PS/1 might have a 720K floppy. Bummer, I'll have to check. > > Doc Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 5 23:00:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >> Hmm... What's a P$Uer? And what are "softs"? Is "Term" and adjective? From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Mar 5 23:25:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed Message-ID: Hmm... Aren't semantics fun? Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Amiga Term Softs needed > >> Hmm... What's a P$Uer? And what are "softs"? Is "Term" and adjective? From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Mar 5 23:56:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO question References: Message-ID: <064301c2e3a4$96825220$0200a8c0@cosmo> Back in February, Witchy posted that he would try to post an ISO of the InfoServer Tape and Disk Access CDRom. I've no idea where he might have put it, or even if he did get around to doing it. Could someone enlighten me as to the status of the ISO? I'm ready to test my InfoServer 1000 module I got last fall and it would be nice to do any upgrades, etc during the same interval. Thanks, Stuart From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Mar 5 23:58:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question References: <001101c2e399$c3411900$3701a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <064401c2e3a4$caf39d20$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:35 PM Subject: RE: VAXstation 4000/60 /90 question > Don't bother trying to take the face off the machine. The case was > designed by someone with a real sense of humor. > > Regards, > > Jeff > I keep an external RRD40 or similar around just to solve problems like this. It is very useful to be able to boot standalone backup using a CD. It also greatly simplifies creating system disks for a new version of OpenVMS. All of my Alpha's (except the Multia) have CDRom's built in, but only one of my VAXstations (a 4000-60) has a CDRom. I got an InfoServer 1000 (just the brick) a while back and will soon be looking for several more RRD type drives to populate it with. When the InfoServer is in service I will use it to boot systems for the purpose of upgrades, etc. Infoservers are VERY handy gadgets. Stuart Johnson From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Mar 6 00:14:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <043701c2e37b$c9b0b980$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3E66E655.6090702@cox.net> It is most definitely a reproduction. It was made by Steve, AKA "obtronix". I've been watching him sell the exact same package on epay for a couple years now. Bryan >I saw this and asked the seller if it was an "original" kit from the 70s >or if it's a current reproduction. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Mar 6 00:40:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: HP 7850B plotter In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306002128.01ccdba8@slave> Message-ID: <000901c2e3aa$89e30fe0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > I know of someone who is looking to dispose of a HP7850B plotter, stands > about 4ft tall, prints on A0 paper. Located, I think, in Norfolk. > There is also one of these in a (live) auction in Southend today. It'll be interesting to see how much it fetches. [It doesn't appear in the printed - or online - catalogue; but has been assigned an additional lot number. http://www.henrybutcher.com/en/auctiondetails.asp?AuctionID=2208 for auction details.] Andy From jss at subatomix.com Thu Mar 6 00:54:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13723505328.20030306005043@subatomix.com> Thanks for your help, Tony and Patrick. I think I have this mostly understood. Just a few things remain. On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Oh, hang on.. I know what you're seeing, I think. Those are the Vb > (battery-backed) lines. The battery backup interface brick fits in place > of the H745 -- the idea being that you only need the H745 if you have core > memory, which is non-volatile, and you only need the battery backup unit > if you have (volatile) MOS memory. The battery interface uses a different > 8 pin mate-n-lock connector in the harness, though. Ok, problem found: me. I got confused by the print set on the representation of front vs back views, and thus I had my regulator positions backwards. We were both also confusing the H745 and H754. Everything (except one thing) looks fine now. Here's what I have: Under Xformer +15V Brick 1: H745 -15V Brick 2: H7441 +5V Brick 3: H7441 +5V Brick 4: H785 +5VB, +15VB, -15VB The H785 doesn't produce -5V or +20, so it is certainly OK that I'm not finding those voltages on the backplane power connectors! My current understanding (no pun intended) of the H785 is that when it is not running off the battery, it produces +5VB, +15VB, and -15VB with current from the mains transformer. Am I correct? My testing shows that I have the correct voltages on all the right pins, including -15V. However, the LED on the H745 (-15V) does not light. What does this mean? -- Jeffrey Sharp From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Mar 6 01:30:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: List Management & Reception... (Possible OT) Message-ID: Hello? Can someone please help me with my reception of this list? I'm registered both at work and at home, but I don't seem to be getting the same traffic at both locations (time and subject differences accounted for). At work, I get several list entries from/for all diferent sorts of addresses. At home, I see only one. Any assiatance appreciated. Note: It this it too far OT, please respond off-list to both edward.tillman@valero.com and ETILLMAN@satx.rr.com . Thanks for your time. Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/bmp which had a name of Valero5.bmp] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 6 01:37:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again In-Reply-To: Jeffrey Sharp "Re: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again" (Mar 6, 0:50) References: <13723505328.20030306005043@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <10303060734.ZM10845@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 6, 0:50, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > My testing shows that I have the correct voltages on all the right pins, > including -15V. However, the LED on the H745 (-15V) does not light. What > does this mean? It probably means you have one of the ones with an incandescant bulb, not an LED, and the bulb has burnt out. That's a common problem, and easy to fix by replacing the bulb with an LED and dropper resistor. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Mar 6 01:48:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) Message-ID: Hmm... And which "Texas" might that be? Sure isn't here... Most of the Salvation Army, Good Will and other similar stores in San Antonio tend to throw away computers and parts. But, you never know when that's going to happen, so ya gotta dive their dumpsters daily. Often, all you come away with is the stench. (Why do they always seem to park these places next to Class-D or 1-star restaurants?!) On the other hand, local pawn shops seem to do a booming business in computers -- and they target an audience of suckers - i.e.: if you want an old 386 or 486 machine, they're available -- if you have no clue about computers, and want to pay similar prices to a new Gateway or HP!! It doesn't make much sense, and a lot of working classic systems just sit around collecting dust, but getting a pawn owner or manager off-center and into reality is an absolute b-tch! '...shows ya how much the 'rank-and-file' really know about computers down here... Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com ==================================================== > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Errr, here in O-hi-a the XT clones start at about $50 and go > > up from there, > Damn! Remind me to stash my suitcases with old hardware next > week, when I fly back to California! They sell P2/450 machines > (complete machines, not just the mb) for EUR 99 here :) It's only in Ohio. I nearly cry whenever someone from Texas starts talking about what they picked up off the curb-- it's generally better than the stuff I can buy around here. D@mn the Salvation Army and VOA-- they're out to make a profit around here. From lgomez at cdromsa.es Thu Mar 6 03:06:00 2003 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (=?us-ascii?Q?Luis_Gomez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Sharp PC-2500 Personal Computer In-Reply-To: <3E6521B3.5080607@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <001101c2e3bf$2374efc0$9600a8c0@Luis> I have a Sharp PC-2500 Personal Computer with integrated plotter and LCD display. It's like a PC-1360 calculator. There is a ploblem in the integrated DC power board and is imposible power on the computer. I'm using a DC 6V PSU. I need the board schema or know if somebody has the same problem and know how can i solve it. Regards. From tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk Thu Mar 6 04:50:01 2003 From: tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <03D0768F-4FC1-11D7-B0D3-000393DA76FE@tcns.co.uk> Assuming the buyer and the seller are adults, then surely "a fair price" is simply another way of saying "whatever price pleases the buyer to offer and the seller to receive"? Tim Challenor On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 06:09 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, chris wrote: > >>>> 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple >> monitors, >>>> external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". >>> >>> $100 is fair. >> >> WOW! I can't believe Sellam of all people over priced this bundle. >> >> $100 is very generous for what is listed. Unless there are some really >> unusual monitors or software/manuals, then I don't think the lot is >> worth >> more than about $20, and that is more as a "thanks for letting me have >> it" gesture. > > My rough thought process: > > Apple //gs - $20 each > Apple //c new in box - $50 > Mac Plus - $5 > Monitors - $5 each > Misc. drives - $10 > "scads of software and manuals" - I'm assuming "scads" is worth about > $25 > > Total: $140 > > One quick no-hassle sale = $100 fair price > >> I have aquired everything mentioned above (catagorically, obviously I >> don't have specifics on the monitors, drives, software, manuals), from >> the curbside garbage in the last six months. > > Including a "new in the box" //c and "scads" of software? That's what > I > would value most in the lot mentioned. > >> There could be things that bump the value up a bit. Such as the IIc >> being >> truely brand new never opened (and not just clean and reboxed). If the > > It doesn't need to be "never opened". Having the original box in good > shape and the original manuals, is uncommon. > >> IIgs are Rom 0 units (or Woz units), and if the monitors or hard >> drives > > Woz signature units are of no real significance. > >> are large (20" monitors, and 10+ gig drives). The software and >> manuals, > > We're talking Apple ]['s here. 20" monitors and 10+ gig hard drives do > not even come into the equation. > >> unless it is current release stuff, exotic hard to find stuff, or >> things >> you care about owning real copies of (vs abondonware copies), then it >> is >> of little value. > > That's where you are completely wrong and why you don't understand my > pricing. The software, as long as most of it is in original boxes with > original disks, is the real prize. Your opinion may vary on this of > course, but the fact is that original software in the box is harder to > find than the machines themselves. And without the software and > manuals, > the computer is just a pretty object. > >> Bear in mind, even if there are parts that pump up the value, you >> need to >> overcome the $20 "thank you" price first, so you start at $0 and go >> up, >> not start at $20 and go up. > > Fine, call it $50 if the seller just wants to dump it. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Mar 6 05:18:00 2003 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: OT: How to set up Eudora properly :-) In-Reply-To: <03D0768F-4FC1-11D7-B0D3-000393DA76FE@tcns.co.uk> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030306220808.026cdb88@mail.vsm.com.au> OK, this is OT but it's how I read classiccmp... When I read messages using Eudora 4.3.2 (paid mode) I get to see lots of headers I can do without. For example a typical message starts: Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:47:24 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: fair price for apple articles Sender: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 X-Original-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:47:24 +0000 X-Authentication-warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to cctalk-admin using -f List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Original-recipient: rfc822;huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Which occupies an aweful lot of screen real estate. Anyone have any ideas of what setting to tune to turn off most (if not all) of these headers. The preview window only shows Subject: and To: I've done some google searches and visited www.qualcomm.com but the suggested solutions don't do a thing for me. Also, if this message appears as html or rtf please tell me and I'll see which setting I've changed. If there wasn't hundreds of Mb of archived messages that would have to be manually refiltered I'd move to something like Evolution. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Thu Mar 6 07:34:01 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) References: Message-ID: I was going to ask about where people are frequenting to find treasure. Where I am now, most of the Salvation Army/Goodwill thrifts have big "NO COMPUTERS!!!" signs out front so they won't even take them in just to toss them. dc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tillman, Edward" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > Most of the Salvation Army, Good Will and other similar stores in San > Antonio tend to throw away computers and parts. But, you never know when > that's going to happen, so ya gotta dive their dumpsters daily. Often, all > you come away with is the stench. (Why do they always seem to park these > places next to Class-D or 1-star restaurants?!) From joe_web at worldonline.fr Thu Mar 6 07:35:11 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Compaq Portable & Portable III Free to a Good Home References: <20030305074300.Y69684-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <004b01c2e3e4$ba68bc70$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, do you ship them to france? it is me who paied the shipping ! thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Richman" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 2:47 PM Subject: Compaq Portable & Portable III Free to a Good Home > I have an orginal Compaq luggable (green screen) and a Portable III > (orange/amber plasma screen) that are under foot. If you can pick them up > in Nebraska, they're yours. If you want me to ship them, I'll let > Mailboxes Etc. do the packing and shipping, so it won't be cheap. Both > work fine and are in excellent condition. The III is like new; I replaced > the old plasma screen (which was badly burned in and faded) just before I > quit using it. It also has a removable "backpack" on it with two ISA card > slots for network cards or whatever. First come, first served. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 6 08:05:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: References: <3E652CCC.11711.738207CB@localhost> Message-ID: <3E676356.13875.7C2712CC@localhost> > > > track 0 and won't read/write even Atari format disks. > > I'm not shure, but wheren't the floppy select signals also > > generated by the keyboard controller? > They were/are on the Amiga (Paula) but I'm not sure about the ST. I'm > hopefully getting another ST this week, and I'll also play swapsies with the > museum's ST to see if the keyboard is breaking the floppy. Nobody mentioned > that on comp.sys.atari.st though. Yeah, you're right, I mixed them up. The Atari keyboard controller is only responsible for keyboard/Mouse/Joystick and RTC (except Mega ST, where a real RTC is build in). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Mar 6 08:18:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: DEC RD54 from Maxtor - problem with DK515-78? References: <001d01c2e1c7$147ef000$93fd623e@tassone> <200303041846.NAA3428256@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E6757E3.C61BB4BF@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > Or you could try ESDI... I have a couple of machines with the > Andromeda ESDC controller and hitachi DK515-78 drives. They > work just fine with MSCP device drivers... Jerome Fine replies: I have used both the Hitachi DK515-78 and the DK516-15 drives with an RQD11-EC ESDI controller from Sigma. I must be missing something. The larger DK516-15 drive (1.2 GBytes) is very slow - about a third of the speed of the DK515-78. I suspect that I need to interleave the sectors, but I have not been able to find a setting to do that with the RQD11-EC. In addition, I am normally able to compare one RT-11 partition on one DK515-78 drive against a different but identical RT-11 partition on a second DK515-78 drive in about 4 minutes and 11 seconds. For those who don't know, an RT-11 partition is 32 MBytes. I use BINCOM in that case and the CPU is a PDP-11/83 in a BA123 box. However, when I have more than 7 quad boards in the backplane, the compare time increases to about 10 minutes. I suspect that the problem is that my system is on the very edge of some hardware condition which causes everything to slow down, the same problem perhaps as with the DK-516-15 drives. Can anyone suggest what could be causing the difficulties? The system is about the same when I use a PDP-11/73 and normal memory except that I don't seem to remember having a problem when there were more than 7 quad boards and I used the DK-515-78 drives. But the DK516-15 drives are always very slow. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From nampcjr at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 08:20:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306141727.90027.qmail@web20707.mail.yahoo.com> -dc I have found the Salvation Army "Goodwill" to be equally non-productive places to get older hardware in So. IL as well. There is one larger thrift sore here that tends to have older systems, usually of the 386/486 varities, but thats about the extent of it. Most of the time I am forced to get stuff from [shudder]....from EPay...as PCjr's (my love and speciality) just dont seem to "pop" up at any given time. Brian Damien Cymbal wrote:I was going to ask about where people are frequenting to find treasure. Where I am now, most of the Salvation Army/Goodwill thrifts have big "NO COMPUTERS!!!" signs out front so they won't even take them in just to toss them. dc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tillman, Edward" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > Most of the Salvation Army, Good Will and other similar stores in San > Antonio tend to throw away computers and parts. But, you never know when > that's going to happen, so ya gotta dive their dumpsters daily. Often, all > you come away with is the stench. (Why do they always seem to park these > places next to Class-D or 1-star restaurants?!) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 6 08:21:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: fair price for apple articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E6766FC.27481.7C355251@localhost> > >> 2 Apple II GS, a IIc (claimed to be new in box), a Mac Plus, couple > >> monitors, external floppy and hard drives and "scads of software and manuals". > >$100 is fair. > WOW! I can't believe Sellam of all people over priced this bundle. > $100 is very generous for what is listed. Unless there are some really > unusual monitors or software/manuals, then I don't think the lot is worth > more than about $20, and that is more as a "thanks for letting me have > it" gesture. Well, he isn't always that cheap... :) My quess would habve been anywhere between 50 and 150 USD, asumeing that it's from the original owver, and therefore working and more important with a huge pile of documentation and software. Also IIgs systems that are still in use (or where until recently) are usualy well equipped, often with harddrives etc. I'd take a look at least. Gruss H. P.S.: For a working GS Transwarp and/or GS Harddisk even I'd offer some green paper. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 08:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <3E66E655.6090702@cox.net> Message-ID: <20030306145013.41155.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Blackburn wrote: > It is most definitely a reproduction. It was made by Steve, AKA > "obtronix". I've been watching him sell the exact same package on epay > for a couple years now. What's a typical price? I have been semi-interested in making one. The only odd part I have would be an 8008 borrowed from a Unibus console board (I have a few spare defective boards sets from Software Results - turning machines on and off dozens of times per day to insert and remove product under test is hell on equipment. Naturally, DEC Field Service would not cover equipment under such use, at least not affordably). The oldest SRAMs I have are 2101s; I have never even seen a 1101 close up, so I guess I'd need the whole enchilada when it comes to "odd parts". BTW, is there still a source for the old-style strip sockets? I'm sure that machined pins are a "better choice", but I was curious if it was still possible to get period mountings. (what I tend to do if I need to see under sockets for stuff I'm building is to scavenge individual machine pins from busted sockets and attach them under a pristine socket and solder them in place - not necessarily as mechanically stable, but at least you can see the traces). -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 6 08:59:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030306100018.448f9be8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Forget the salvation army and trift stores. Most of them toss the OLD stuff and only keep the PCs. Go find a scrapper in your area. That's where you find the really interesting stuff. And the prices are a lot better too. Joe At 08:37 AM 3/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >I was going to ask about where people are frequenting to find treasure. > >Where I am now, most of the Salvation Army/Goodwill thrifts have big "NO >COMPUTERS!!!" signs out front so they won't even take them in just to toss >them. > >dc > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tillman, Edward" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:45 AM >Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > > >> Most of the Salvation Army, Good Will and other similar stores in San >> Antonio tend to throw away computers and parts. But, you never know when >> that's going to happen, so ya gotta dive their dumpsters daily. Often, >all >> you come away with is the stench. (Why do they always seem to park these >> places next to Class-D or 1-star restaurants?!) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 6 08:59:08 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: OT: How to set up Eudora properly :-) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030306220808.026cdb88@mail.vsm.com.au> References: <03D0768F-4FC1-11D7-B0D3-000393DA76FE@tcns.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030306100244.10cf0018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I use Eudora too and I get the same thing. I've been through all the settings and help files and I can't find a way to get rid of that stuff either. If you find a way, let me know. Joe At 10:14 PM 3/6/03 +1100, you wrote: >OK, this is OT but it's how I read classiccmp... > >When I read messages using Eudora 4.3.2 (paid mode) I get to see lots of >headers I can do without. For example a typical message starts: > >Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:47:24 +0000 >From: Tim >Subject: Re: fair price for apple articles >Sender: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) >X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 >X-Original-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:47:24 +0000 >X-Authentication-warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to >cctalk-admin using -f >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: , > >List-Unsubscribe: , > >List-Archive: >List-Help: >List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >Original-recipient: rfc822;huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > >Which occupies an aweful lot of screen real estate. Anyone have any ideas >of what setting to tune to turn off most (if not all) of these headers. The >preview window only shows Subject: and To: > >I've done some google searches and visited www.qualcomm.com but the >suggested solutions don't do a thing for me. > >Also, if this message appears as html or rtf please tell me and I'll see >which setting I've changed. If there wasn't hundreds of Mb of archived >messages that would have to be manually refiltered I'd move to something >like Evolution. > > > >Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au >Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the >Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Mar 6 09:04:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <3E66E655.6090702@cox.net> Message-ID: <09b201c2e3f0$ff528710$46f8b8ce@impac.com> >It is most definitely a reproduction. It was made by Steve, AKA >"obtronix". I've been watching him sell the exact same package on epay >for a couple years now. I contacted Stephen last night to see what he was up to. As it turns out, the kit on eBay is one of his that the buyer probably gave up on or never had time for. He's planning to make some more kits and he's working on a web site: http://mark8.obtronix.com/ http://mark8.obtronix.com/gallery/ It looks like he's off to a really nice start! Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From cb at mythtech.net Thu Mar 6 09:09:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) Message-ID: >Where I am now, most of the Salvation Army/Goodwill thrifts have big "NO >COMPUTERS!!!" signs out front so they won't even take them in just to toss >them. Yeah, that's what the one near me does. They won't even take them in anymore. What's worse is, they will take all the parts... just not the CPU. So they breakdown otherwise complete systems. Although, I am humored when the occasional computer makes it thru, like the other day they had a PCjr. It just shows that they know nothing about the stuff. If it doesn't look like a modern WinTel box, they don't seem to recognize it. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 09:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:05 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs In-Reply-To: <8D376EC5-4F78-11D7-A57C-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030306151547.40414.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ian Primus wrote: > A general rule of thumb is - Apple 3.5's first, then Unidisk 3.5, then > 5 1/4. When you make a distinction between "Apple 3.5" and "Unidisk 3.5", I'm not certain I understand. Is there a difference between older, beige 19-pin Apple-manufactured disk drives and "newer", "platinum" external disk drives? If so, that may explain why I have a short stack of drives that never worked with a Mac Plus (I used to help my mother out with her all-Mac typesetting shop - when she closed in 1997, her primo machine was a 4MB SE w/18MB disk drive). So... at a signal/component level, what's the difference? Just a different mechanism with different characteristics, or is there a content difference between the end of the drive and the end of the cable? -ethan (this is somewhat relevant - I have a couple of IIgs models, ROM 0 and, IIRC, ROM 3, as well as plenty of II+ and one IIc + one IIc+. I'm no longer sure what I can attach to what). From cb at mythtech.net Thu Mar 6 09:29:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: OT: How to set up Eudora properly :-) Message-ID: >When I read messages using Eudora 4.3.2 (paid mode) I get to see lots of >headers I can do without. For example a typical message starts: You can try the hack at the following web site. Its supposed to fix this problem with Eudora v3. But the problem appears to be the same issue you are seeing (emails from the Mailman list server show extra headers in the email body). -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 09:32:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of 1s and 0s (was Re: fair price for apple articles) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306152930.43063.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Whether it is truly "new" in the box or just includes the original box > makes little difference, particularly in this case, since having the > original box for any old computer is not common. It adds a certain > premium to the machine for those that value such things (as do I, mainly > since it definitely has historic relevance). This is especially important if any of the titles are from Infocom. Those still fetch a price from those trying to "collect the set". I would say that a Zorkmid could be worth more than the computer it comes with. Yes, there are copies of "The Lost Treasures of Infocom" for a variety of platforms still kicking around, but the reproduction quality of the "feelies" is rather poor. I have a complete set of the regular boxes (for various CPUs) with a few spares, as well as a couple flavors of TLToI (Amiga/PeeCee/floppy/CD-ROM), but none of the older, truely masterful packages (like the mask from "Suspended" or the flying saucer from "Starcross"). So... in the case of certain titles from certain vendors, don't discount the value, historic _or_ otherwise, of the software in decent shape. Yes, the "bits" are critical to running it; yes, many, many titles can be found on abandonware sites; no, that's not always all that was in the box. -ethan P.S. - I still routinely pick up Infocom boxes for a buck or two, even if some of the materials are missing - reply cards, catalogs, etc., are frequently discarded. If anyone else on the list is a big Infocom nut like me, write me off-line if you want to swap titles. I'll see what I have dups of and for which platform. From nampcjr at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 09:39:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306153601.92592.qmail@web20706.mail.yahoo.com> "If I had a dollar for every time........." Hoping to find a PCjr show up here is probably impossible. Im in Carbondale, IL, which is pretty much by itself in the deeper part of So. IL. Most of the area around here is farm land and what not, and the chances of great computer fnds are *probably* a little less than if I were nearer a larger metropolotian area...[sigh].....Oh well... Brian chris wrote:>Where I am now, most of the Salvation Army/Goodwill thrifts have big "NO >COMPUTERS!!!" signs out front so they won't even take them in just to toss >them. Yeah, that's what the one near me does. They won't even take them in anymore. What's worse is, they will take all the parts... just not the CPU. So they breakdown otherwise complete systems. Although, I am humored when the occasional computer makes it thru, like the other day they had a PCjr. It just shows that they know nothing about the stuff. If it doesn't look like a modern WinTel box, they don't seem to recognize it. -chris From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 09:40:30 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Damien Cymbal wrote: > I was going to ask about where people are frequenting to find treasure. > > Where I am now, most of the Salvation Army/Goodwill thrifts have big "NO > COMPUTERS!!!" signs out front so they won't even take them in just to toss > them. One of the best places for old computers are the smaller local, regional or for-profit chain thrift stores. Look in the phone book under "thrift stores" (of all things), write down all the addresses, plug them into Mapquest, work out an optimized route, and pick one Saturday to hit them all. You can also get more helpful suggestions from my article "Finding Vintage Computers": http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 09:50:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs In-Reply-To: <20030306151547.40414.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > (this is somewhat relevant - I have a couple of IIgs models, ROM 0 and, > IIRC, ROM 3, as well as plenty of II+ and one IIc + one IIc+. I'm > no longer sure what I can attach to what). I don't know about the differences with regards to a Mac, but on the ][, the 5.25" drives, whether it's called a "Unidisk" or '5.25" Drive' are the same. As for the 3.5" drives, I am also assuming the name change is the only difference, but I never had practical experience with them. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 09:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of 1s and 0s (was Re: fair price for apple articles) In-Reply-To: <20030306152930.43063.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > This is especially important if any of the titles are from Infocom. Those > still fetch a price from those trying to "collect the set". I would say > that a Zorkmid could be worth more than the computer it comes with. Indeed, Infocom games can represent a whole subclass of collecting. > Yes, there are copies of "The Lost Treasures of Infocom" for a variety of > platforms still kicking around, but the reproduction quality of the > "feelies" is rather poor. I have a complete set of the regular boxes (for > various CPUs) with a few spares, as well as a couple flavors of TLToI > (Amiga/PeeCee/floppy/CD-ROM), but none of the older, truely masterful > packages (like the mask from "Suspended" or the flying saucer from > "Starcross"). I've got Zork on 8" disk in the original packaging for CP/M systems ;) > So... in the case of certain titles from certain vendors, don't discount > the value, historic _or_ otherwise, of the software in decent shape. Yes, > the "bits" are critical to running it; yes, many, many titles can be > found on abandonware sites; no, that's not always all that was in the box. Exactly my point. The maps that came with each Ultima are also an example. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Thu Mar 6 09:53:29 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) Message-ID: >Hoping to find a PCjr show up here is probably impossible. I thought I offered the PCjr to the list when I saw it there. No one responded, although the price they were asking seemed steep. $12.50 IIRC, for JUST the PCjr. No power brick, no keyboard, no monitor. Although it did have the parallel port sidecar. Alas, I only have one PCjr left myself, and I'm hanging on to that one. I had 50 or so a number of years ago, but they were all donated to a local school system. I might have an extra monitor left however, but I'm not sure. I should still have some PCjr video to CGA pigtails, but they are all home made (not by me, but by another employee here), and I think someone on this list posted the pinouts for such an adaptor some time back. -chris From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Mar 6 09:57:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of In-Reply-To: <20030306152930.43063.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 6, 03 07:29:30 am Message-ID: <200303061548.KAA16631@wordstock.com> And thusly Ethan Dicks spake: > > Yes, there are copies of "The Lost Treasures of Infocom" for a variety of > platforms still kicking around, but the reproduction quality of the > "feelies" is rather poor. I have a complete set of the regular boxes (for > various CPUs) with a few spares, as well as a couple flavors of TLToI > (Amiga/PeeCee/floppy/CD-ROM), but none of the older, truely masterful > packages (like the mask from "Suspended" or the flying saucer from > "Starcross"). > > So... in the case of certain titles from certain vendors, don't discount > the value, historic _or_ otherwise, of the software in decent shape. Yes, > the "bits" are critical to running it; yes, many, many titles can be > found on abandonware sites; no, that's not always all that was in the box. > One of my favorite types of software packaging is Electronic Art's "record albums". Really cool artwork plus bios and pics of the programmers. The games are also fun to play too... ;-) Cheers, Bryan From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 09:58:29 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: <20030306073001.77326.37213.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030306155415.2246.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Mar 6 10:00:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: OT: How to set up Eudora properly :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306104928.02e0fb50@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that chris may have mentioned these words: > >When I read messages using Eudora 4.3.2 (paid mode) I get to see lots of > >headers I can do without. For example a typical message starts: > >You can try the hack at the following web site. Its supposed to fix this >problem with Eudora v3. But the problem appears to be the same issue you >are seeing (emails from the Mailman list server show extra headers in the >email body). > > You can also put these two entries just below the [Settings] tag: NoSplashScreen=1 ReplyAttribution=Rumor has it that %2 may have mentioned these words: The first one gets rid of the nag screen & starts Eudora a bit faster... the 2nd changes the default "on you said:" attribution header. Found these *way* down deep in the Eudora help file... To find others, do this: Click "Help" then "Topics", if you haven't used Eudora help before, use the "Maximize search capabilities" button, then hit next. Search for Attribution, what pops up should be the "Eudora.ini Settings" help area, click on that. There's a *mongo* list of settings in the eudora.ini list that are explained... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 10:03:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 Message-ID: <20030306155931.80029.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> I've decided to try to get my Dragon 64 running again. I got it from Bob Rosen of Spectrum Projects. He stripped all the socketed chips from it, however. So I need to find a set of Dragon 64 ROMS, and identify what chips go in U19 and U15. I'm pretty sure that the one closest to the ROMS is the 6809E, but not sure of what the other chip should be. What makes this more difficult is that this is not a British Dragon. This is an American one made by Tano Corporation. I wish I had just offered him some money for the original chips way back when... I can buy a whole new Dragon for $35.00 + S/H, and if I can't get a set of ROMS and the missing chip cheaper than that.. I may just do that and keep this one as a spare... I wish I still had the Dragon disk controller also... I know I can use a Tandy Controller, but I think I'll need a different Disk Basic ROM for it. If anyone can help with that, I'd be obliged... Regards, Al Hartman P.S.: On the Apple II pricing discussion in a different thread. I agree with Sellam re the pricing. The buyer could easily resell the items he didn't want on eBay and get the prices that Sellam quoted. And who knows if those IIGS's contain RAM boards or even Super SCSI cards that would be work $15.00 for the RAM card, and $40 and up for the SCSI cards. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 10:10:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306160700.57469.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > >Hoping to find a PCjr show up here is probably impossible. > > I thought I offered the PCjr to the list when I saw it there. No one > responded, although the price they were asking seemed steep. $12.50 IIRC, > for JUST the PCjr. No power brick, no keyboard, no monitor. Although it > did have the parallel port sidecar. I didn't respond because I _have_ a PCjr with parallel port side car and no power brick. At least I have the keyboard. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 10:11:35 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306160705.58790.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > >Hoping to find a PCjr show up here is probably impossible. > > I thought I offered the PCjr to the list when I saw it there. No one > responded, although the price they were asking seemed steep. $12.50 IIRC, > for JUST the PCjr. No power brick, no keyboard, no monitor. Although it > did have the parallel port sidecar. I didn't respond because I _have_ a PCjr with parallel port side car and no power brick. At least I have the keyboard. -ethan From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 6 10:14:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: DEC = cool References: <001d01c2e1c7$147ef000$93fd623e@tassone> <200303041846.NAA3428256@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E6757E3.C61BB4BF@compsys.to> Message-ID: <00db01c2e3fa$7e392a80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> According to an author ('The Hipster's Handbook') just here on the radio it is now currently Hip to use the word "Dec" in conversation for the modern cool. The spelling is mine, he probably used 'Deck' in his book but my thinking is that without knowing the etymology, and being from conversation, there is some (limited) chance that Dec = DEC. If you know this words origin give a shout. John A. From dholland at woh.rr.com Thu Mar 6 10:15:30 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of 1s and 0s (was Re: fair price for apple articles) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1046966873.25972.31.camel@crusader> On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 10:44, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > So... in the case of certain titles from certain vendors, don't discount > > the value, historic _or_ otherwise, of the software in decent shape. Yes, > > the "bits" are critical to running it; yes, many, many titles can be > > found on abandonware sites; no, that's not always all that was in the box. > > Exactly my point. The maps that came with each Ultima are also an > example. Yup. Copies still having the "tokens" are even rarer. I'm still looking for a few of those.. (Lets not even go into Savage Empire/Martian Dreams) (Yes, /me is a Ultima Collector :-) ) David > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 10:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of 1s and 0s (was Re: fair price for apple articles) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306161437.16275.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > This is especially important if any of the titles are from Infocom... > > Indeed, Infocom games can represent a whole subclass of collecting. Yep. > I've got Zork on 8" disk in the original packaging for CP/M systems ;) Cool! My oldest Zork is the edition published by Personal Software for the TRS-80. It's the only reason I want to have one (well... that plus we had a Model III and Model IV at my high school - they were replaced by Rainbows, but that's a different story). I didn't buy it (nothing to run it on at the time), but I remember seeing the RT-11 version of either Starcross or Planetfall (RX01) on the wall at the Digital Store in Downtown Columbus, c. 1984. > Exactly my point. The maps that came with each Ultima are also an > example. Them, too. I'm sure there's lots of examples in the gaming world. -ethan From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Mar 6 10:28:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection In-Reply-To: <1046966873.25972.31.camel@crusader> from "David Holland" at Mar 6, 03 11:07:48 am Message-ID: <200303061620.LAA30969@wordstock.com> And thusly David Holland spake: > > (Yes, /me is a Ultima Collector :-) ) > Did you pick up "The Ultima Collection". It had every Ultima made *plus* Ultima 0. Cheers, Bryan From nampcjr at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 10:30:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306162540.2788.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Well I have enough PCjr's per se...It would always be nice to have a few *spares* around, but now I have enough to last me, literally, a very long time. My big thing now is looking for PCjr's that come with the sidecars and other "barely seen" accessories that were sold. There are a few extras, like SCSI sidecar (allows you to actually BOOT a HDD! ), cartridges that overaly and fix the original jr BIOS, special cards made to fit in the internal modem slot, etc. I got a couple neat things this way from EPay buys, but its still in the back of my head that sometimes the best fund might just be at a thrift store under the lid of a PCjr sitting on a shelf, and the vendor will not know what they have. Brian chris wrote:>Hoping to find a PCjr show up here is probably impossible. I thought I offered the PCjr to the list when I saw it there. No one responded, although the price they were asking seemed steep. $12.50 IIRC, for JUST the PCjr. No power brick, no keyboard, no monitor. Although it did have the parallel port sidecar. Alas, I only have one PCjr left myself, and I'm hanging on to that one. I had 50 or so a number of years ago, but they were all donated to a local school system. I might have an extra monitor left however, but I'm not sure. I should still have some PCjr video to CGA pigtails, but they are all home made (not by me, but by another employee here), and I think someone on this list posted the pinouts for such an adaptor some time back. -chris From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 10:40:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of 1s and 0s (was Re: fair price for apple articles) In-Reply-To: <20030306161437.16275.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I didn't buy it (nothing to run it on at the time), but I remember > seeing the RT-11 version of either Starcross or Planetfall (RX01) > on the wall at the Digital Store in Downtown Columbus, c. 1984. I am pretty sure I have one Infocom title for the PDP-11. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 6 11:02:00 2003 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 In-Reply-To: <20030306155931.80029.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1fre4yv.a299ba3m0rcwM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > I know I can use a Tandy Controller, but I think I'll > need a different Disk Basic ROM for it. If anyone can > help with that, I'd be obliged... Lets see... The Tandy controller/software uses the following: Read byte, store byte, halt CPU, un-halt CPU, repeat. NMI when done. The Dragon controller/software uses the following: SYNC, interrupt, read byte, store byte, repeat. NMI when done. On the Tandy controller DSKREG is $FF40, and the wd179x is mapped between $FF48-$FF51. On the Dragon controller DSKREG is $FF48, and the wd179x is mapped between $FF40-$FF43. Also the bit patterns for DSKREG are different between the Tandy and Dragon controllers: * --------------------------------------------------------------- * DSKREG - the control register * CoCo ($ff40) Dragon ($ff48) * * Bit Bit * 7 halt enable flag 7 not used * 6 drive select #3 6 not used * 5 density (0=single, 1=double) 5 NMI enable flag * and NMI enable flag * 4 write precompensation 4 write precompensation * 3 drive motor activation 3 single density enable * 2 drive select #2 2 drive motor activation * 1 drive select #1 1 drive select high bit * 0 drive select #0 0 drive select low bit It would take some serious hacking to transform a CoCo FDC into a Dragon FDC. -- The ears are too length. -------------------------------------------------------- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From dundas at caltech.edu Thu Mar 6 11:14:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: OT: How to set up Eudora properly :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I use Eudora 3.1.3 on a Mac. For the few that may be interested the answer is slightly different and there is no .ini file. At 7:26 AM -0800 3/6/03, chris wrote: >>When I read messages using Eudora 4.3.2 (paid mode) I get to see lots of >>headers I can do without. For example a typical message starts: > >You can try the hack at the following web site. Its supposed to fix this >problem with Eudora v3. But the problem appears to be the same issue you >are seeing (emails from the Mailman list server show extra headers in the >email body). > > This is a very helpful list. Installing the file "Esoteric Settings 3.1" from the distribution in the Eudora Folder (in the System Folder) adds a number of new panels to the Special->Settings... menu. Specifically one called Boring Headers. From this one can edit those headers to be omitted. John From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 6 11:17:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Books & stuff that must go now References: <3E5FE077.5060209@bestweb.net> <003701c2e028$7e9b0f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001c01c2e10c$950cdae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <01b601c2e403$c304c620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have a big pile of Computer & related books, plus > software, etc that need to be gotten rid of: > http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/ToGetRidOf.html Chapter 3: Best of the rest, all free: There's three books on Compuserve three on the Sharp PC-1211 one for the Toshiba T1100 one for the Memotech MTX (UK'84) I've separated out the original requests and should notify various parties before the end of the Weekend, at the latest. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 6 11:28:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030306100735.4f8f72d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Well, the auction closed. You DON'T want to know the closing price! However it didn't meet the reserve. Does anybody know who the high bidder (TSSWEEN) is? The seller must be nuts! Or else he just wants a new Mercades! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 6 11:29:35 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: FA: HP 9153 with BASIC, 9000 200 computers, 9122C drives Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030306123116.439fa1e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've been cleaning out my storage shed and getting rid of some the HP equipment that I still have around. I just listed a HP 9000 220 computer, a 9000 217 computer, a HP 9133B hard drive with HP BASIC Version 5 and HP 8753 network analyzer software installed and a HP 9122 C floppy drive on E-bay. All working and in good condition. See . Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 11:32:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: New bounties ($$$) Message-ID: I'm looking for the following software for a client: Microsoft LAN Manager 2.1 for OS/2 IBM LAN Server 2.0 for OS/2 "Message Port" by Nuko Information Systems "WinPort" by LANSource Technologies, 1.0 version The common thread is that all featured serial port sharing technology over a LAN. If you have these or know of any other software that had this feature (excluding Artisoft's Articom or LANtastic) then please contact me. I always share the profits with those who help me out! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 6 11:34:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of 1s and 0s (was Re: fair price for apple articles) References: Message-ID: <3E6784E8.3080502@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>So... in the case of certain titles from certain vendors, don't discount >>the value, historic _or_ otherwise, of the software in decent shape. Yes, >>the "bits" are critical to running it; yes, many, many titles can be >>found on abandonware sites; no, that's not always all that was in the box. > Exactly my point. The maps that came with each Ultima are also an > example. Lets not forget many games had passwords or other useful information in the manuals too. Ben. From dholland at woh.rr.com Thu Mar 6 11:38:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection In-Reply-To: <200303061620.LAA30969@wordstock.com> References: <200303061620.LAA30969@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <1046972104.26200.41.camel@crusader> Da, I'm fairly certain there was a copy included in U9:Ascension as well. The only things I'm completely missing are Ultima I, Ultima II, Martian Dreams, and Savage Empire. (Plus the various tokens for U3->U5) The only ones I don't collect are the Online's, as they're not single player. (And very much don't have the same 'feel' as U4->U9 did) David On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 11:20, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly David Holland spake: > > > > (Yes, /me is a Ultima Collector :-) ) > > > > Did you pick up "The Ultima Collection". It had every Ultima made *plus* > Ultima 0. > > Cheers, > > Bryan From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Mar 6 11:46:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <20030306145013.41155.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E678893.8020505@cox.net> >What's a typical price? I have been semi-interested in making one. > > I have seen them go for between $200-$1000+, depending on the completeness of the parts package. The last fully assembled one I saw went for a little over $3000 (For the soldering iron challenged). > >BTW, is there still a source for the old-style strip sockets? I'm > You can buy them almost anywhere. Digikey, I think, has them. I buy them from local parts stores. Bryan From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Thu Mar 6 11:56:01 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: HP 7850B plotter Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Andy Holt >> I know of someone who is looking to dispose of a HP7850B plotter, stands >> about 4ft tall, prints on A0 paper. Located, I think, in Norfolk. >> >There is also one of these in a (live) auction in Southend today. It'll be >interesting to see how much it fetches. Did you see the auction? As you say, it never made it to the online catalogue... Also, the plotter I'm on about has definitely been saved now. He's possibly going to give it to his son's school, possible eBay it, or possibly sell it to one of you lot for ?pittance, provided you take it away (from Norfolk). Personally, I don't need/want it, and have no means of transporting it anyway, but the offer is there for the taking. From jruschme at netzero.net Thu Mar 6 12:09:00 2003 From: jruschme at netzero.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: New bounties ($$$) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:21 PM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: New bounties ($$$) > > > I'm looking for the following software for a client: > > Microsoft LAN Manager 2.1 for OS/2 > IBM LAN Server 2.0 for OS/2 > "Message Port" by Nuko Information Systems > "WinPort" by LANSource Technologies, 1.0 version > > The common thread is that all featured serial port sharing technology over > a LAN. If you have these or know of any other software that had this > feature (excluding Artisoft's Articom or LANtastic) then please contact > me. Hmm... seems like I also recall that the AE QuadraLink (a four-port NuBUS-based serial board) came with a driver that allowed port sharing over an AppleTalk network. Then, of course, there were boxes like the Shiva NetSerial (which probably had an earlier incarnation at Cayman Systems). <<>> From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 6 12:17:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives Message-ID: John A. Dundas III asked about DEC RC25 Drives Are these the drives with a cartridge that looks like (ASCII line art follows) --------- / \ / \ | | | | | | | | | | ------------------- I have an old DEC cartridge that I scrounged somewhere that looks like this. It's some sort of disk media in a removable form I think. It's yours if it's the right one. Mike From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Mar 6 12:26:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay References: <3.0.6.16.20030306100735.4f8f72d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <06c801c2e40d$4e252480$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:07 AM Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay > Well, the auction closed. You DON'T want to know the closing price! However it didn't meet the reserve. Does anybody know who the high bidder (TSSWEEN) is? The seller must be nuts! Or else he just wants a new Mercades! > > Joe $11,099.99 was less than the reserve? What on EARTH was the reserve??? Also, who has that kind of money for a hobby - knowing that it will require tremendous effort to bring the system back to life? It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - or is quite greedy (the latter, I think). Stuart Johnson From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Mar 6 12:34:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: New bounties ($$$) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c2e40e$17ced060$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> There was a program I used for serial port sharing back around 1986 or so. It was a DOS TSR. You'd run the "host" TSR on the machine with the port(s) to share, and the other machines would run client TSR's. I just looked, and I don't seem to have it, or anything that seems to jog my memory. Unfortunately, I don't recall it's name. We also used a "Buffalo Box" device for serial port sharing that worked pretty well - but that didn't share over the net. It would just allow multiple machines to use their serial ports to "share" a limited resource like a modem, but each machine had a serial line connected to the Buffalo Box. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:21 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: New bounties ($$$) I'm looking for the following software for a client: Microsoft LAN Manager 2.1 for OS/2 IBM LAN Server 2.0 for OS/2 "Message Port" by Nuko Information Systems "WinPort" by LANSource Technologies, 1.0 version The common thread is that all featured serial port sharing technology over a LAN. If you have these or know of any other software that had this feature (excluding Artisoft's Articom or LANtastic) then please contact me. I always share the profits with those who help me out! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 12:55:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: DEC RC25 Drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030306185211.94572.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > John A. Dundas III > asked about DEC RC25 Drives > Are these the drives with a cartridge that looks like > (ASCII line art follows) > --------- > / \ > / \ > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > ------------------- > > I have an old DEC cartridge that I scrounged somewhere that looks like > this. > > It's some sort of disk media in a removable form I think. If that's over 5" wide and about 1/2" thick, it's probably the right one. Mine looked like that. -ethan From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Mar 6 13:04:41 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <06c801c2e40d$4e252480$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <0a0401c2e412$19c636c0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> > It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - or is > quite greedy (the latter, I think). Or he wants to bypass eBay's fees and conduct a private sale to the highest bidder. We'll see if he re-lists the item or not. Maybe I'm too much the cynic! Erik S. Klein -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:22 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:07 AM Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay > Well, the auction closed. You DON'T want to know the closing price! However it didn't meet the reserve. Does anybody know who the high bidder (TSSWEEN) is? The seller must be nuts! Or else he just wants a new Mercades! > > Joe $11,099.99 was less than the reserve? What on EARTH was the reserve??? Also, who has that kind of money for a hobby - knowing that it will require tremendous effort to bring the system back to life? It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - or is quite greedy (the latter, I think). Stuart Johnson From dogbert at mindless.com Thu Mar 6 13:13:01 2003 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: AT&T 3B2/400 installation tape? Message-ID: <000f01c2e3ac$4a8d75e0$b200a8c0@amer.cisco.com> Does anybody have a copy of the installation tape for AT&T UNIX System V (either 3.2 or 4, should work for the AT&T 3B2/400? -- Ross From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 6 13:13:33 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: QDD (was RE: King of the string has Stringy floppy day) In-Reply-To: <200303051432.h25EW16V002524@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of philpem@dsl.pipex.com > Sent: 05 March 2003 14:32 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: RE: King of the string has Stringy floppy day > > I've got one too - but I didn't get a system tape or a blank tape > with it. If anyone wants to part with a System tape and a few > blanks, well, my email address is philpem {at} dsl {dot} pipex {dot} com. s'funny, but I've never seen blanks offered anywhere; mine has a hole in the polys where a blank should be but it's missing. > > instead of a neverending reel of tape it just had the tape > 'loose' inside > > the cart..... > And it never got tangled up? Amazing... Apparently not, but then a lot of dot matrix printer ribbons work the same way, media differences aside. If I remember I'll try and dig out an advert and/or review of it, assuming there isn't one on the web... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Mar 6 13:25:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <06c801c2e40d$4e252480$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <3.0.6.16.20030306100735.4f8f72d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306191524.01b8b0b8@slave> At 18:22 06/03/2003, you wrote: >$11,099.99 was less than the reserve? What on EARTH was the reserve??? >Also, who has that kind of money for a hobby - knowing that it will require >tremendous effort to bring the system back to life? That's if it *can* be brought back to life. It may have been kept under cover, but it's not had a storage life without suffering (judging by the front of the cabinets). >It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - or is >quite greedy (the latter, I think). I personally think the latter - the whole auction seems to have been set up not to be seriously winnable (72hrs only for payment? Massive reserve? Buyer to arrange *entire* shipping?). I suspect his "better half" has said "sell it", and he's had what (on the surface) looks like a good crack at it. IMHO, if he was serious about selling it, he'd be auctioning it through a "proper" auction house (ala Christies), and be looking for $100K minimum. It is, after all, possibly the oldest surviving large electronic computer on the planet... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Mar 6 13:27:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:06 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay References: <3.0.6.16.20030306100735.4f8f72d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <06c801c2e40d$4e252480$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E67A052.7010005@cox.net> Greed maybe, the seller has a feedback rating of 1. I suspect we have a greenie here; he probably thinks it is going to be put into use as the primary system for some large corporation! >$11,099.99 was less than the reserve? What on EARTH was the reserve??? >Also, who has that kind of money for a hobby - knowing that it will require >tremendous effort to bring the system back to life? > >It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - or is >quite greedy (the latter, I think). From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 6 13:50:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: NOS equipment worth less than used? (was: fair price...) In-Reply-To: <20030306011524.GH12223@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Mar 5, 3 08:15:24 pm Message-ID: > Quothe chris, from writings of Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 03:38:43PM -0500: > > If it is really new in box, then yeah, I could agree with that price. But > > If it's "new" in this sense, then it's old and never used, which, to > my way of thinking, means that it should be worth less. Having never > been used, some capacitors may have gone bad and the equipment hasn't Why all this fuss about capacitors? In all my time fixing classic computers I've replaced maybe 50 capacitors _total_ (and many more chips). I've never seen a custom capacitor, and I've never seen major damage caused by one. Replacing capacitors is _not_ a problem. > demonstrated that it's survived a burn-in period; the chances of > failure are higher. Hence, should not a NOS (new old stock) system On the other hand, provided it's powered up carefully (I am not going to re-start that flamefest), it's likely that the machine would be easy to repair. Unlike a machine where, say, the PSU regulator has failed when the machine is in use, taking out all the chips. > be worth less than a system that's been used, but not used enough to > have mechanical and electro-mechanical, components worn, or wearing, > out. > > Any thoughts on this? I wouldn't pay extra for NIB (after all, the first thing I would do to the machine is unbox it...) but I wouldn't pay less either. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 6 13:50:47 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 5, 3 03:09:47 pm Message-ID: > > Only 2 modules (I assume the DAC and Clock that were mentioned) :-(. > > Pity. You really need at least the ADC to do anything useful with it. > > I'm sure one will turn up sometime in the future; knowing my luck someone > will give me another fully populated MINC next week :) And then I'll get > battered off the missus. That happeend to me. I bought a couple of hard-disk MINCs (actually both had a fair selection of modules) for a fair amount of money. I then went to a factory sale auction where there was a floppy drive MINC. I noticed it contained the (IMHO somewhat rare) pre-amp and thermocouple modules, neither of which I had. Amazingly I got it for the opening bid of \pounds 2.00 > The DAC has one cable coming off it that terminates in a female D25, but the > previous owner didn't know what it was used for since he was given it by > someone else! Is this connected to the top edge connector (which should have a connector block with screw terminals plugged onto it), or is it wired to component leads on the PCB or what? > If one or both of the DECwriters that came with the bundle were used on the > MINC they'll have been serial anyway, so no need for an LPV11.... Sure, but for some odd reason MINCs seem to have them. All mine do, and AFAIK none were ever used with a parallel printer. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 6 13:51:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again In-Reply-To: <13723505328.20030306005043@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Mar 6, 3 00:50:43 am Message-ID: > Ok, problem found: me. I got confused by the print set on the representation > of front vs back views, and thus I had my regulator positions backwards. We Wait until you sart populating a large backplane of flip-chips like an RK11-C or worse a DX11. The printsets show the backplanes from the wiring side you seen. Took me a bit of time to figure that one out (as in 'Hey, why are all the PCBs in the wrong slots??'). > were both also confusing the H745 and H754. Everything (except one thing) > looks fine now. Here's what I have: > > Under Xformer +15V > Brick 1: H745 -15V > Brick 2: H7441 +5V > Brick 3: H7441 +5V > Brick 4: H785 +5VB, +15VB, -15VB > > The H785 doesn't produce -5V or +20, so it is certainly OK that I'm not > finding those voltages on the backplane power connectors! Yep. > > My current understanding (no pun intended) of the H785 is that when it is > not running off the battery, it produces +5VB, +15VB, and -15VB with current > from the mains transformer. Am I correct? I believe so. I've never had an 11/34 with the battery backup option though. > > My testing shows that I have the correct voltages on all the right pins, > including -15V. However, the LED on the H745 (-15V) does not light. What > does this mean? The 'LED' runs straight off the output rail, so there's little that can go wrong if the output is somewhere near -15V. Most likely you have one of the older H745s with a light bulb not an LED, and the bulb has failed (they do this from time to time ;-)). Or I suppose if you have an LED that, or the series resistor, could be defective. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 6 13:51:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 In-Reply-To: <20030306155931.80029.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Mar 6, 3 07:59:31 am Message-ID: > identify what chips go in U19 and U15. > > I'm pretty sure that the one closest to the ROMS is > the 6809E, but not sure of what the other chip should > be. If it's a 40 pin chip then you might br able to do it by a process of elimination! The 5 40 pin chips in a Dragon or CoCo are 6809E, 6883, 6847, 2 off 6821. -tony From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Mar 6 14:06:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306191524.01b8b0b8@slave> References: <06c801c2e40d$4e252480$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3.0.6.16.20030306100735.4f8f72d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030306143952.058d9ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Adrian, > 72hrs only for payment? This is easily doable. Certified cachier's check by FEDEX Next Day Air gets that done, at least within the same country, or direct bank to bank wire funds transfers. An overnight letter is only about $10.00, and a wire transfer is only about $30.00 > Buyer to arrange *entire* shipping? This is also doable. Immediately contact a national moving or shipping company, show them the info, get a quote ( though they might have to survey the equipment first ), and just tell them to get it done. I'm sure the seller would check the local directories for the buyer and over the phone, pass on the phone numbers of these moving or shipping companies that were in the area where the equipment is located. Then the buyer just starts making the phone calls. >>It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - or is >>quite greedy (the latter, I think). When it comes to the sale of large ticket items, eBay's 10 days sometimes isn't enough time for organizations or companies to go through the proposal, approval, and authorization process. Perhaps the seller knew that he might need to run it more than once to make it's availability more widely known, but not immediately have it end in a legally binding sale, in order to try to do the best they could with it. I once listed a Sun StorEdge Array for a company, and had some companies that were interested, and they described how they needed to go through a lot of "process" to get approval. With the kind of level that bidding on that item went to, it probably wasn't the average home user that was involved in it near the end. But if a museum, ( say the Smithsonian? ) wanted to purchase it, it would take time. The seller having a high reserve that wasn't met can give it that time. Best Regards At 07:19 PM 3/6/03 +0000, you wrote: >At 18:22 06/03/2003, you wrote: > > >$11,099.99 was less than the reserve? What on EARTH was the reserve??? > >Also, who has that kind of money for a hobby - knowing that it will require > >tremendous effort to bring the system back to life? > >That's if it *can* be brought back to life. It may have been kept under >cover, but it's not had a storage life without suffering (judging by the >front of the cabinets). > > >It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - or is > >quite greedy (the latter, I think). > >I personally think the latter - the whole auction seems to have been set up >not to be seriously winnable (72hrs only for payment? Massive reserve? >Buyer to arrange *entire* shipping?). I suspect his "better half" has said >"sell it", and he's had what (on the surface) looks like a good crack at it. > >IMHO, if he was serious about selling it, he'd be auctioning it through a >"proper" auction house (ala Christies), and be looking for $100K minimum. >It is, after all, possibly the oldest surviving large electronic computer >on the planet... > >-- >Cheers, Ade. >Be where it's at, B-Racing! >http://b-racing.com From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Mar 6 14:09:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306191524.01b8b0b8@slave> Message-ID: <001c01c2e41b$915df8e0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > IMHO, if he was serious about selling it, he'd be auctioning it through a > "proper" auction house (ala Christies), and be looking for $100K minimum. > It is, after all, possibly the oldest surviving large electronic computer > on the planet... > Possibly ... but doesn't the Science Museum (London) have an ICL 1900 system squirrelled-away in its warehouse? (But I bet it doesn't have the necessary software - and if it doesn't do something soon the relevant expertise will also be missing) Andy From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Mar 6 14:09:07 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: HP 7850B plotter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001b01c2e41b$90f1a280$4d4d2c0a@atx> > >> I know of someone who is looking to dispose of a HP7850B > plotter, stands > >> about 4ft tall, prints on A0 paper. Located, I think, in Norfolk. > >> > >There is also one of these in a (live) auction in Southend > today. It'll be > >interesting to see how much it fetches. > > Did you see the auction? As you say, it never made it to the > online catalogue... Sold for ?40 (+10% buyers commission + 17.5% VAT) - I didn't bid as I haven't got space ... was tempted to get it and look for the vinyl cutter accessory kit. > > Also, the plotter I'm on about has definitely been saved now. > He's possibly going to give it to his son's school, possible eBay > it, or possibly sell it to one of you lot for ?pittance, provided > you take it away (from Norfolk). Good Andy From hansp at aconit.org Thu Mar 6 14:15:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306191524.01b8b0b8@slave> References: <3.0.6.16.20030306100735.4f8f72d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030306191524.01b8b0b8@slave> Message-ID: <3E67ABA6.2010507@aconit.org> Adrian Vickers wrote: > IMHO, if he was serious about selling it, he'd be auctioning it through a > "proper" auction house (ala Christies), and be looking for $100K minimum. > It is, after all, possibly the oldest surviving large electronic computer > on the planet... I suspect that CSIRAC in Australia is a tad older. It was turned OFF for the last time in 1964. http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/csirac/ -- hbp From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Mar 6 14:31:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030306143952.058d9ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <25EB1A72-5012-11D7-B576-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Actually I think this is a "Monkey shines" bid. If the person was serious about it they would have bid more. the 99.99 told me that they wanted to be part of the auction but didn't want to make the reserve. Rob On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 03:03 PM, Mail List wrote: >> >$11,099.99 was less than the reserve? What on EARTH was the >> reserve??? >> >Also, who has that kind of money for a hobby - knowing that it will >> require >> >tremendous effort to bring the system back to life? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 6 14:52:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: HP 5890 gas chromatograph chemstation? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030306155522.3b1f9ebc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Is anybody here familar with this stuff? I picked up a HP disk drive with the ChemStation software installed and I'd like to know more about exactly what kind of computer it was SUPPOSED to be used with. I searched the net and one site mentioned that it used a HP 9000 300 but that's all I've been able to find out. I got the Sw working on a HP 9000 217 but I'm having some problems with the display. Oddly enough, the SW won't run on my HP 9000 320 or 380! Joe From kittstr at access-4-free.com Thu Mar 6 14:54:01 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: PCjr Items References: <20030304024527.75926.qmail@web20701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201c2e422$142168b0$b3c2d63f@amscomputer> I have a joystick new in box. If you're interested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Heise" To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:45 PM Subject: WTB: PCjr Items > I am looking for PCjr cartridges, mainly ones from PC Enterprises, like the Combo Cartrisge, Keyboard Buffer Cartridge, Quicksilver and JrVideo. Of course all PCjr specific software and cartridges are welcomed in my home! > Also on the lookout for sidecars (Really want a TMC 850jr SCSI sidecar - also from PC Enterprises), serial cards fitted for the modem slot, memory sidecars, MS sidecars, AST PCNetIIjr's, Legacy Expansion units, HDD kits of anykind (I think Racore made one as well). > I would be willing to trade or buy outright if you wish. Let me know what you have! > Thanks!! > > Brian From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Mar 6 15:02:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <25EB1A72-5012-11D7-B576-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030306143952.058d9ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030306155352.05a65ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Robert, That was the second to the highest. But their previous bid, the third highest also, was a little more normal. Perhaps they were just about at the max they wanted to go on it, but still slightly undecided, just wanted to test the limits. There was no last second bidding on that one. Looks like every bidder ( relatively ) rationally was making calculated decisions ( as long as all bidders were legitimate bidders ). Best Regards At 03:28 PM 3/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >Actually I think this is a "Monkey shines" bid. If the person was serious >about it they would have bid more. the 99.99 told me that they wanted to >be part of the auction but didn't want to make the reserve. > >Rob > > >On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 03:03 PM, Mail List wrote: > >>> >$11,099.99 was less than the reserve? What on EARTH was the reserve??? >>> >Also, who has that kind of money for a hobby - knowing that it will >>> require >>> >tremendous effort to bring the system back to life? From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Mar 6 15:04:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <20030306145013.41155.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E66E655.6090702@cox.net> <20030306145013.41155.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2855.4.20.168.142.1046984453.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan wrote: > BTW, is there still a source for the old-style strip sockets? I'm sure > that machined pins are a "better choice", but I was curious if it was > still possible to get period mountings. Machined-pin sockets were available back then (e.g., Augat), and that's what anyone sensible used if they could afford it. So there's nothing wrong with using machined-pin sockets to build one today. New machined-pin sockets are not any less "authentic" than new dual-beam or single-beam sockets. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Mar 6 15:13:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs In-Reply-To: <20030306151547.40414.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <8D376EC5-4F78-11D7-A57C-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <20030306151547.40414.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2973.4.20.168.142.1046985006.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan asked: > When you make a distinction between "Apple 3.5" and "Unidisk 3.5", I'm > not certain I understand. The Unidisk 3.5 is a "smart" drive, it has a 650x microprocessor, ROM, RAM, etc. inside. It would work on any Apple II family machine with a 19-pin disk connector. I think it would even work on the original Disk II controller with the 20-pin header, if you wired an appropriate adapter. You wouldn't be able to boot from it, though, since the boot ROM on the Disk II controller didn't know about it. The Unidisk 3.5 will NOT work on a Macintosh, except perhaps attached to the Apple II emulator board for the LC. The other extenal 3.5 drives, including the original 400K and 800K drives, the Apple 3.5 drive, and the external FDHD/Superdrive, are "dumb" drives. Unless you have a "smart" controller, these drives will only work on the IIgs and IIc+. The Unidisk 3.5 is only recommended if you don't have a computer or controller that can handle the "dumb" drives. Using the Unidisk on a IIgs is particularly annoying, because GS/OS has to keep polling the drive to see if you've inserted a disk, and every time it polls the drive makes noise. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Mar 6 15:30:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030306143952.058d9ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <06c801c2e40d$4e252480$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3.0.6.16.20030306100735.4f8f72d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030306143952.058d9ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3981.4.20.168.142.1046986014.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > > Buyer to arrange *entire* shipping? > > This is also doable. Immediately contact a national moving or shipping > company, show them the info, get a quote ( though they might have to Sure, if you don't mind it getting destroyed. If I paid that kind of money for anything, I'd move it myself. I've seen the results of letting moving companies deal with such things, and it would be a gross understatement to say that it's not pretty. And it basically would not be possible to get any real insurance on such a thing. Oh, you might be able to get some sort of insurance, but when the system winds up destroyed, the insurance company will claim that the value of the equipment was only the scrap value to begin with, and pay a trivial amount of money to "settle" the claim. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Mar 6 15:43:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <0a0401c2e412$19c636c0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <0a3601c2e428$b2017560$46f8b8ce@impac.com> The Univac is back. The starting bid is curiously familiar ($1 more then the high bid on the auction that didn't hit its reserve.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3405163151 Erik From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Thu Mar 6 15:48:00 2003 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) Message-ID: If you are VERY familiar with your home city, you can also scout out the garage sales in communities which were "new" in the 1970s I see things like Mattel Intellivison's, original Apple II systems and such but they always seem to appear in areas which were newly built in the early 1970s. My wife and I attend garage sales all through our city, but only certain neighbourhoods seem to have the classic computers. Still looking for a working Exidy Sorcerer... Thomas From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Mar 6 16:14:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay Message-ID: <49.2bdaa682.2b992151@aol.com> In a message dated 3/6/03 1:42:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, classiccmp@vintage-computer.com writes: > The starting bid is curiously familiar ($1 more then the high bid on the > auction that didn't hit its reserve.) > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3405163151 > > But no reserve on this one. It looks like he wants to sell it. Paxton Astoria, OR From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 6 16:25:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: FW: Plotter in Norfolk Message-ID: > From: Andy Holt > > > >> I know of someone who is looking to dispose of a HP7850B plotter, > stands > >> about 4ft tall, prints on A0 paper. Located, I think, in Norfolk. > >> > >There is also one of these in a (live) auction in Southend today. It'll > be > >interesting to see how much it fetches. > > I live in Kansas City it's not very far from Norfolk, Nebraska. Do you > have an address? > Mike From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 6 16:32:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: FW: RE: Plotter in Norfolk Message-ID: After reading the original email more carefully I now see that I misconstrued the original message. Must be Norfolk in GB. Also realized that my subject line might be misinterpreted, as some bad person in Norfolk. Sorry :) Mike > From: Andy Holt > > > >> I know of someone who is looking to dispose of a HP7850B plotter, > stands > >> about 4ft tall, prints on A0 paper. Located, I think, in Norfolk. > >> > >There is also one of these in a (live) auction in Southend today. It'll > be > >interesting to see how much it fetches. > > I live in Kansas City it's not very far from Norfolk, Nebraska. Do you > have an address? > Mike From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 16:32:28 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 In-Reply-To: <20030306180001.82288.76709.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030306222927.85920.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> oops! Guess that was wrong. I can remember using a Tandy Controller on a Dragon 32 once. But, I guess that one had hacked Coco ROMS. That might be what I do with this unit, hack a set Coco ROMS to go into it, just to get it working again. With a new unit at $35.00, it might not make much sense to try to get this one working again. My Coco III is also dead. Green box with no text. I think the 6809 is bad. At least, that's what I've been told about these units. So, I'd have to desolder it and put another one in just to diagnose it. I may do that some weekend when I feel adventurous. Suddenly caught the old computer bug.... Al > From: tlindner@ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) > > > I know I can use a Tandy Controller, but I think > > I'll need a different Disk Basic ROM for it. If > > anyone can help with that, I'd be obliged... > > Lets see... > > The Tandy controller/software uses the following: > > Read byte, store byte, halt CPU, un-halt CPU, > repeat. NMI when done. > > The Dragon controller/software uses the following: > > SYNC, interrupt, read byte, store byte, repeat. NMI > when done. > > On the Tandy controller DSKREG is $FF40, and the > wd179x is mapped > between $FF48-$FF51. > > On the Dragon controller DSKREG is $FF48, and the > wd179x is mapped > between $FF40-$FF43. > > Also the bit patterns for DSKREG are different > between the Tandy and > Dragon controllers: > > * > --------------------------------------------------------------- > * DSKREG - the control register > * CoCo ($ff40) Dragon > ($ff48) > * > * Bit Bit > * 7 halt enable flag 7 not used > * 6 drive select #3 6 not used > * 5 density (0=single, 1=double) 5 NMI enable > flag > * and NMI enable flag > * 4 write precompensation 4 write > precompensation > * 3 drive motor activation 3 single > density enable > * 2 drive select #2 2 drive > motor activation > * 1 drive select #1 1 drive > select high bit > * 0 drive select #0 0 drive > select low bit > > > It would take some serious hacking to transform a > CoCo FDC into a Dragon > FDC. > > -- > The ears are too length. > -------------------------------------------------------- > tim lindner > tlindner@ix.netcom.com From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Thu Mar 6 16:43:00 2003 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Kenneth L. Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: HP 5890 gas chromatograph chemstation? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030306155522.3b1f9ebc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <9A82EA1E-5024-11D7-967C-000393670E1E@lle.rochester.edu> The Chemstation software is Pascal-based. The disks use an unusual partitioning scheme. I used one of these Chemstations to run my GC and gas chromatograph-mass spectrometer for many many years. Mine were HP 9000-320 and 9000-340 machines ( I still have complete, functional machines with data on them here- they are in storage waiting for the data to be archived - that and I can't bring myself to get rid of them). These systems ran non-stop for ten years with only one floppy disk failure. Much more reliable than the PC stuff that replaced them. The display output is very hardware-specific; it is designed to work with only a limited number of frame buffers. I still have documentation on these systems, so if you want more details contact me off-list. On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 03:55 PM, Joe wrote: > Is anybody here familar with this stuff? I picked up a HP disk drive > with the ChemStation software installed and I'd like to know more > about exactly what kind of computer it was SUPPOSED to be used with. I > searched the net and one site mentioned that it used a HP 9000 300 but > that's all I've been able to find out. I got the Sw working on a HP > 9000 217 but I'm having some problems with the display. Oddly enough, > the SW won't run on my HP 9000 320 or 380! > > Joe > > Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Rd Rochester, NY 14623 Phone: (585)-275-8247 Fax: (585)-275-5960 From dgari at msn.com Thu Mar 6 16:47:00 2003 From: dgari at msn.com (David Gari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay Message-ID: I thought you old hardware hounds would appreciate this one: My pride and joy - a MITS Altair 8800a is for sale at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404786716 Current bid is at $1247 and auction ends Mar-14-03 14:40:40 PST Many thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Mar 6 17:06:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac on eBay In-Reply-To: <25EB1A72-5012-11D7-B576-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030306143952.058d9ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030306225913.03067ba0@pop.freeserve.net> At 15:28 06/03/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Actually I think this is a "Monkey shines" bid. If the person was serious >about it they would have bid more. the 99.99 told me that they wanted to >be part of the auction but didn't want to make the reserve. > >Rob I know I tend to put my max bid on ebay in at a few pennies over a whole bid - if I happen to think something is worth 10.00 say, I'll bid 10.03 just in case someone else also thinks the same; the auto bid will only go up to your max, even if it's less than an increment over the previous highest bid ... I've won a few auctions that way over people putting last second bids in. From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Thu Mar 6 17:17:00 2003 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: pinout of connectors on H777 PSU References: <3E664633.8498C761@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <000201c2e436$27b78260$f7f8f1c3@comouter4> Ed, PDP-11/24 Backplane power connectors. These connectors plug into the H777 power supply. The UB version delivers +/- 15 V to the memory. Numbering of pins on comnnectors (pin side) 3 2 1 6 5 4 9 8 7 12 11 10 15 14 13 Pin P2 P4 1 +5V +5V 2 nu nu 3 +15V +15V 4 +5V +5V 5 nu nu 6 nu +12/15B 7 nu nu 8 GND GND 9 GND GND 10 nu nu 11 nu nu 12 +5B nu 13 nu nu 14 -15V -15V 15 nu -12/15B nu= not used Wim ----- O5riginal Message ----- From: 6The Wanderer To: Sent: 8Wednesday, March 05, 2003 7:47 PM Subjec9t: pinout of connectors on H777 PSU > Hi all, > > Is there someone who knows the values/meanings of the pins on the connectors > (the ones at the back) of a H777 PSU? > > Thanks, > > Ed > -- From hansp at aconit.org Thu Mar 6 17:19:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <001c01c2e41b$915df8e0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <001c01c2e41b$915df8e0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <3E67D6CA.9070503@aconit.org> Andy Holt wrote: > Possibly ... but doesn't the Science Museum (London) have an ICL 1900 system > squirrelled-away in its warehouse? > (But I bet it doesn't have the necessary software - and if it doesn't do > something soon the relevant expertise will also be missing) I'm sure there are one or two around somewhere but I must admit to not knowing where. On the software front, the folks at Leeds have gotten George 3 to run again on an emulator. http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~ecldh/ccs/george3.html -- hbp From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Mar 6 17:28:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay References: Message-ID: <074901c2e437$6dedcb30$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gari" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:43 PM Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay > I thought you old hardware hounds would appreciate this one: > > My pride and joy - a MITS Altair 8800a is for sale at: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404786716 > > Current bid is at $1247 and auction ends Mar-14-03 14:40:40 PST > > Many thanks. > > Looks nice! It must hurt to sell it. Stuart Johnson From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Mar 6 18:07:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) References: Message-ID: <008401c2e43d$50617f20$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tillman, Edward" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > Hmm... And which "Texas" might that be? Sure isn't here... I've heard many Texans on the list say something like `I passed up the quad Xeon box at the salvation army 'cause it only had a half-gig of ram and they wanted 45 bucks for it.' Ok, maybe not quite like that, but the stuff they talked about would *never* be seen in a local store, or priced higher than new. Literally. The local $thrift_store_charities are hell-bent on making a profit, and it bugs the crap outta me to see them selling junk, for obscene prices, to poor people who might not know any better. Whoops-- sorry. > > Most of the Salvation Army, Good Will and other similar stores in San > Antonio tend to throw away computers and parts. But, you never know when > that's going to happen, so ya gotta dive their dumpsters daily. Often, all > you come away with is the stench. (Why do they always seem to park these > places next to Class-D or 1-star restaurants?!) Around here, they just started enforcing the felony-to-take-it-outta-the-donation-bin laws, and I've a hunch they'd apply it to the dumpsters too. The city has also started enforcing the it's-litter-if-it-ain't-in-the-bin laws, it'll be interesting to see what happens the first time they bust someone for taking somerthing from outside the bin. > Ed Tillman Bob From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Mar 6 18:11:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030306190652.060deec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello David, It looks like you took very nice care of it over the years. Best Regards At 02:43 PM 3/6/03 -0800, you wrote: >I thought you old hardware hounds would appreciate this one: > >My pride and joy - a MITS Altair 8800a is for sale at: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404786716 > >Current bid is at $1247 and auction ends Mar-14-03 14:40:40 PST > >Many thanks. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 6 18:18:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 In-Reply-To: <20030306222927.85920.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Mar 6, 3 02:29:27 pm Message-ID: > My Coco III is also dead. Green box with no text. I > think the 6809 is bad. At least, that's what I've been > told about these units. So, I'd have to desolder it > and put another one in just to diagnose it. I have a CoCo 3 service manual here, if you want me to look anything up (like the schematics...) Before assuming the 6809 is dead, I'd want to do some tests. Is there any bus activity,, for example. Is the RAM being accessed/refreshed? Is the ROM ever being enabled? And so on... -tony From nampcjr at yahoo.com Thu Mar 6 18:20:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: PCjr Items In-Reply-To: <000201c2e422$142168b0$b3c2d63f@amscomputer> Message-ID: <20030307001525.34137.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Andrew Well, if you are planning on just getting rid of it, I would take it off your hands, but as of right now, I have about 20 of them sitting in a back room :) they could always use another friend! :) Brian Andrew Strouse wrote:I have a joystick new in box. If you're interested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Heise" To: Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:45 PM Subject: WTB: PCjr Items > I am looking for PCjr cartridges, mainly ones from PC Enterprises, like the Combo Cartrisge, Keyboard Buffer Cartridge, Quicksilver and JrVideo. Of course all PCjr specific software and cartridges are welcomed in my home! > Also on the lookout for sidecars (Really want a TMC 850jr SCSI sidecar - also from PC Enterprises), serial cards fitted for the modem slot, memory sidecars, MS sidecars, AST PCNetIIjr's, Legacy Expansion units, HDD kits of anykind (I think Racore made one as well). > I would be willing to trade or buy outright if you wish. Let me know what you have! > Thanks!! > > Brian From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 6 18:32:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030306193444.5137ae4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> David, I looked at your auction. What is this > "one RQM Systems Power-Start boot loader board w/ 48 DIP switches"? I had two Altairs and one had the MITs autostart board. It was a standard MITs EPROM board with one pre-programmed 1702 in it that contained the same code that you normally had to toogle in by hand. IIRC the code was only 48 bytes or some such. No DIP switches on it though. Joe At 02:43 PM 3/6/03 -0800, you wrote: >I thought you old hardware hounds would appreciate this one: > >My pride and joy - a MITS Altair 8800a is for sale at: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404786716 > >Current bid is at $1247 and auction ends Mar-14-03 14:40:40 PST > >Many thanks. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Mar 6 19:36:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Northstar Single Density Controller info MDC-A4 Message-ID: <06030365.63142@webbox.com> Hi all, I have put my Intel MDS system on hold while I await some hardware information in the mail. I am resurrecting the second half of my project which is to get a Northstar system up and running so I can develop the ISIS-II code again. The problem I have at the moment is that I need the schematics for the MDC-A4 controller. I have two manuals on the double density controller but nothing on the one I am using. Does anyone have the manual available with troubleshooting info or at least the schematics. I am more than willing to scan docs I have in trade. I am off troubleshooting the controller because it will not write properly. I can load a fresh copy of DOS, customize the I/O and actually run DOS now, but I can't update and make a new copy because of the write issue. I did manage to fix an Applied Microsystems EM180B Z80B emulator today so I could enter the console code and run things. Thanks! best regards, Steve Thatcher From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Mar 6 20:10:00 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC In-Reply-To: <018f01c2df1f$d6c26700$7d00a8c0@george> from "Robert F. Schaefer" at "Feb 28, 2003 06:52:14 am" Message-ID: <200303070207.SAA17185@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > I don't currently have a DRX2, but I do have a DRX, which is essentially > the > > same thing without the clock doubled core. The L1 cache made it about 20% > > faster than an equivalently clocked 386. You had to explicitly turn on > the > > cache, and set regions as uncachable. (Caching the video card usually > made > > for problems.) > > Guess I want the DRX2 then. No sense in spending all that time on something > just to have it be less than optimal. I'll have to dig up reference sheets > on 'em. > > BTW, what do you run on the DRX? I'm upgrading an IBM P70 luggable, the > target OSes are AIX-PS/2 and Solaris in particular, and then as many others > as will work. Sorry for the delayed response. I've used Linux, OS/2 Warp and Win3.1 on them. Right now it's an OpenDOS machine. Turning on internal cache requires ring 0 access. OS/2 required a device driver at startup. Win 3.1 and DOS run a program from autoexec.bat. ISTR that the linux kernel had support built in for the DRX. I don't know about AIX and Solaris. There are also later model BIOS versions that turn on the cache at boot. I don't know if the P70 would have that l turn on the cache at boot. I don't know if a P70 would have an appropriate BIOS. Eric From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Mar 6 20:38:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC References: <200303070207.SAA17185@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <024401c2e452$5784b000$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 9:07 PM Subject: Re: AMD or Intel 80387 Math Coprocessor IC > Sorry for the delayed response. I've used Linux, OS/2 Warp and Win3.1 on them. > Right now it's an OpenDOS machine. Ok. I was mainly looking to see if it was only kind-of compatable, but it sounds like any quirks are minor or non-intrusive. > > Turning on internal cache requires ring 0 access. OS/2 required a device driver at > startup. Win 3.1 and DOS run a program from autoexec.bat. ISTR that the linux > kernel had support built in for the DRX. I don't know about AIX and Solaris. Probably need a kernel patch to tweak the bits, same as linux. I wonder if NetBSD supports the cache... > > There are also later model BIOS versions that turn on the cache at boot. I > don't know if the P70 would have that l turn on the cache at boot. I don't > know if a P70 would have an appropriate BIOS. Probably not, but if my googling has been any indication, there are a goodly number of drx/drx2 chips installed in P70s-- it's about the fastest chip you can install without major hardware voodoo or adding a CPU card. > > Eric Bob From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 6 21:00:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of In-Reply-To: <200303061548.KAA16631@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Mar 6, 3 10:48:50 am" Message-ID: <200303070307.TAA09114@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > One of my favorite types of software packaging is Electronic Art's "record > albums". Really cool artwork plus bios and pics of the programmers. > The games are also fun to play too... ;-) I liked those too. I have Worms? in such an album sitting next to the C128 (it's one of the most off-beat software titles I've ever encountered). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- For every credibility gap, there is a gullibility fill. -- R. Clopton ------ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 21:06:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <0a0401c2e412$19c636c0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - > or is > > quite greedy (the latter, I think). > > Or he wants to bypass eBay's fees and conduct a private sale to the > highest bidder. That used to work, but now you get charged fees based on the reserve price (those tricky eBay bastards caught on ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 21:07:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306191524.01b8b0b8@slave> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > IMHO, if he was serious about selling it, he'd be auctioning it through a > "proper" auction house (ala Christies), and be looking for $100K minimum. > It is, after all, possibly the oldest surviving large electronic computer > on the planet... You obviosuly haven't been to the Computer History Museum ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 21:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <0a3601c2e428$b2017560$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > The Univac is back. > > The starting bid is curiously familiar ($1 more then the high bid on the > auction that didn't hit its reserve.) > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3405163151 Retarded. Why doesn't he just ask the high bidder of the first auction to add a buck to his bid and buy it? Unless either one of two things: 1) The high bidder on the previous auction realized how carried away he got and refused the offer. 2) The high bidder on the previous auction was a shill. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 6 21:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, David Gari wrote: > I thought you old hardware hounds would appreciate this one: > > My pride and joy - a MITS Altair 8800a is for sale at: Hi David. Why on Earth would you be selling your "pride and joy"? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 6 21:29:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay References: Message-ID: <3E6810A3.1080906@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Hi David. > > Why on Earth would you be selling your "pride and joy"? He could be from Vulcan and it is the logical thing to do. :) Ben. From jss at subatomix.com Thu Mar 6 21:42:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 PSU Yet Again (Thanks) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <769504987.20030306213902@subatomix.com> On Thursday, March 6, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> I got confused by the print set on the representation of front vs back >> views > > Wait until you sart populating a large backplane of flip-chips like an > RK11-C or worse a DX11. The printsets show the backplanes from the wiring > side you seen. Took me a bit of time to figure that one out (as in 'Hey, > why are all the PCBs in the wrong slots??'). Thankfully, I already figured that out! I can imagine that causing all sorts of problems, including much let-outage of magic smoke. > Most likely you have one of the older H745s with a light bulb not an LED, > and the bulb has failed (they do this from time to time ;-)). That is probably exactly what is going on. Thank you and Peter for the information. If all goes well with other things, I'll be testing the CPU, memory, and console serial line this weekend. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Jamie.Ontiveros at wcom.com Thu Mar 6 22:22:01 2003 From: Jamie.Ontiveros at wcom.com (Jamie.Ontiveros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Items for free Message-ID: <0HBC00548HCOIA@pmismtp06.wcomnet.com> Rich, I'm guessing that all of the items that you had to give away for free have already been distributed. If not...I am interested in the very last item. If so, do you know where I can get one? :) - Megahertz External Token Ring Adapter for Toshiba T1000SE/XE/LE, T1200XE, T2000SX, original box, manual, disks The URL to your post is below. http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-October/002964.html Thanks, Jamie From nickmiller at charter.net Thu Mar 6 22:22:28 2003 From: nickmiller at charter.net (Nick Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more Message-ID: <011701c2e45a$edfb3c90$7a00a8c0@themillers> I've finally come to realization that I do not need 2 (or more) of every computer I can latch on to. I have a complete IBM PCjr system with monitor and keyboard and several Apple IIGS systems all with keyboard, monitor and floppy drive. I also have some CoCo 2's, TI-99/4A's, some ugly Amiga 1000's and some C-64's. I realize these are aren't the rarest of computers but they are still fun to tinker with and the price is right. These are free for pickup only, I will not ship them. If you're passing through the St. Louis area on I-70 in St. Charles drop me a line and we can arrange a meeting. If you are able to stop by and feel like geeking out I have 300ish computers in the basement including an Atari 1400XL with 1090XL box, Altair 8800, IMSAI 8080, PET 2001 and others that you might like to check out. Nick From jim at jkearney.com Thu Mar 6 23:12:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <20030306145013.41155.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E66E655.6090702@cox.net> <20030306145013.41155.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > The oldest SRAMs I have are 2101s; I have never > even seen a 1101 close up, so I guess I'd need the whole enchilada > when it comes to "odd parts". I've been hesitant to bring this up here because it skates perilously close to the kind of commercial messages that are so annoying, but here goes: when I built my Mark-8 (from Steve G's boards), I located some NOS Intel P1101's. I later found some AMD C1101's that look nicer, so I never used the Intel chips, and I would like to pass them on to someone who would use them. However, they (being of 1973ish vintage and rare) cost me a fair amount, $4 ea, and I'd need to recover that. I think I have 26 of them, so 3 banks totalling 768 bytes. Jim Kearney p.s. my Mark-8: http://www.jkearney.com/8008/ From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 6 23:44:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: <008401c2e43d$50617f20$7d00a8c0@george> References: <008401c2e43d$50617f20$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3E683093.6010508@internet1.net> Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > felony-to-take-it-outta-the-donation-bin laws, I'd never take something out of the donation bin..... That would be stealing it since the original owner was giving it to the charity. > and I've a hunch they'd apply > it to the dumpsters too. on the other hand.... out of the dumpster is okay since it isn't wanted by the original owner or the charity. It also keeps stuff out of landfills. The city has also started enforcing the > it's-litter-if-it-ain't-in-the-bin laws, it'll be interesting to see what > happens the first time they bust someone for taking something from outside > the bin. We don't actually have bins anymore around here, that I know of...... people kept setting them on fire!! I do see things stacked outside of the Goodwill store, under the canopy, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Mar 7 01:00:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: ICL In-Reply-To: <3E67D6CA.9070503@aconit.org> Message-ID: <000801c2e476$89aebfc0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > I'm sure there are one or two around somewhere but I must admit to not > knowing where. On the software front, the folks at Leeds have gotten > George 3 to run again on an emulator. > > http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~ecldh/ccs/george3.html > Those pages have been unchanged for a couple of years now - does anyone know if there has been further progress? Have any copies of Operators Executive, George 2, and Maximop been discovered? Andy From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Mar 7 02:09:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:07 2005 Subject: Univac eBay In-Reply-To: References: <0a0401c2e412$19c636c0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030307025718.05ac9a20@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Sellam, > That used to work, but now you get charged fees based on the reserve price > (those tricky eBay bastards caught on ;) Darn, I see they made the reserve fee 1% of the reserve price. It used to be a maximum of $2.00 ? http://pages.ebay.com/help/sellerguide/selling-fees.html Best Regards At 06:58 PM 3/6/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > > > It seems to me that the seller either wasn't serious about selling - > > or is > > > quite greedy (the latter, I think). > > > > Or he wants to bypass eBay's fees and conduct a private sale to the > > highest bidder. > >That used to work, but now you get charged fees based on the reserve price >(those tricky eBay bastards caught on ;) > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Mar 7 02:37:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001c01c2e484$3ec48e00$373fcd18@D73KSM11> > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, David Gari wrote: > > > I thought you old hardware hounds would appreciate this one: > > > > My pride and joy - a MITS Altair 8800a is for sale at: > > Hi David. > > Why on Earth would you be selling your "pride and joy"? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival Either because (1) it isn't, or (2) he's got another one. But, frankly, it's like selling one of your children. From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Mar 7 07:05:00 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <20030218091618.U94068@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: Jim, I was wondering if you have received my payment for the Digital Programming Languages book? I haven't heard from you and am worried my check may have gotten lost in the mail. Thanks, David On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 12:22 PM, James Willing wrote: > In my never ending attempts to find more space, I've started sorting > thru > the book vaults and culling out the duplicates. Following is this > week's > sortings. > > In general, any book listed will go for $7.50 delivered in CONUS unless > otherwise noted. Where there are multiples this will be noted. If you > are outside of 'states', please drop me a note to sort out postage. > > Available volumes: > > Digital Microcomputer Handbook 1977-78 (5 available) > Digital PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook 1976 (3 available) > Digital Microcomputer Products Handbook 1985 > Digital Logic Handbook 1970 > Digital Programming Languages 1970 V2 > Digital Labratory Computer Handbook 1971 > > > First Called, First Served! As-Is, where is! All are readable and > appear complete, but remember they are old. > > More later; > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Mar 7 07:41:01 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 08:01 AM, David Betz wrote: > Jim, Sorry for sending this to the entire list. I intended to send it privately. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Mar 7 08:27:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [Fwd: VAXStation Cluster up for sale.] Message-ID: <3E68AC26.C62B332C@comcast.net> I saw this on the NetBSD-Vax mailing list. Maybe someone here has the $400 to spend on this lot? "J. Buck Caldwell" wrote: > > So I've reached the point where I have no more room/time/energy for my > poor neglected Vaxen. I'm dumping the load. I want to offer the lot to > you all first, knowing that they'll get a good home - but if they don't > go here, I'm putting them individually on EBay. I can't justify giving > them away to my wife - she insists I charge back rent to the new owner. > > Here's a rough list: > (8) VAXStation 3100/m38 - one SPX - all with various drives, one with > SCSI TK50. All have 16Megs. > (1) DECServer 300 (with MOP image on CD) - 16-port MMJ Terminal Server > (9) 10BaseT Transcievers - one for each of the above. > (9) 6' 10BaseT Cables (red) > (10) 6' MMJ Cables > (1) 3Com SuperStackII Switch 1100 - Manageable, 12-port 10BaseT, 2-port > 100BaseT switch. > > I have, at one point or another, put NetBSD on each of these systems, > but only 3 of them recently. They will all come with what is on them > now, which may or may not be bootable. They are all BELIEVED to be in > working condition, but no guarentees. Now for the bit that will scare > everyone off: I'd like to get $400 for the lot. I'd also like someone to > come pick this up in St. Louis, or meet me within 100 Miles. I can ship, > but shipping would be rediculously expensive, I imagine, but it's your > dime if you want it shipped. First come, first served - and if no > takers, the lot goes on EBay sometime next week. I will NOT part this > out unless it gets to EBay. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 7 08:29:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk image s) Message-ID: The thrifts I go to here in Chicago are not too bad about desktop systems ($10-$20 for 386/486 boxes, $5-$20 for monitors), but any laptop _starts_ at $50, even XT or AT-class ones. A marginally useable 486 will most likely be $150. I usually don't even bother with the hardware -- I go looking for old MS-DOS software. -----Original Message----- From: Robert F. Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 6:02 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) I've heard many Texans on the list say something like `I passed up the quad Xeon box at the salvation army 'cause it only had a half-gig of ram and they wanted 45 bucks for it.' Ok, maybe not quite like that, but the stuff they talked about would *never* be seen in a local store, or priced higher than new. Literally. The local $thrift_store_charities are hell-bent on making a profit, and it bugs the crap outta me to see them selling junk, for obscene prices, to poor people who might not know any better. Whoops-- sorry. Bob From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 7 08:49:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? Message-ID: I'd like to know the pinouts for the power connector (6 pins) and or battery pack (4 contacts) for the Compaq SLT286. I have a battery pack, but it is dead and too well sealed for me to want to open it up. Bob From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Mar 7 08:49:40 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay Message-ID: <07030366.24391@webbox.com> yea, but you aren't allowed to list children on eBay... >--- Original Message --- >From: "Wayne M. Smith" >To: >Date: 3/7/03 12:33:35 AM > > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, David Gari wrote: >> >> > I thought you old hardware hounds would appreciate this one: >> > >> > My pride and joy - a MITS Altair 8800a is for sale at: >> >> Hi David. >> >> Why on Earth would you be selling your "pride and joy"? >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage >> Computer Festival > >Either because (1) it isn't, or (2) he's got another one. But, frankly, >it's like selling one of your children. From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Mar 7 08:55:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [Fwd: VAXStation Cluster up for sale.] In-Reply-To: <3E68AC26.C62B332C@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > I saw this on the NetBSD-Vax mailing list. Maybe someone here has the > $400 to spend on this lot? I would, really, but as he said.. shipping to NL would cost ten times that. All but the 3Com is what I am looking for.. sadly, not within (sane) driving distance :( --fred From pzachary at sasquatch.com Fri Mar 7 09:01:00 2003 From: pzachary at sasquatch.com (pavl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: "Software" is sometimes more than just a random collection of 1s and 0s (was Re: fair price for apple articles) References: <20030306161437.16275.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E68B429.73E526AC@sasquatch.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: I happen to have several of the infocom games for RT-11 (infidel,planetfall,enchanter,deadline,suspended, ) they are fun to take for a spin from time to time who is familiar with "the warp factor", released only(I'm told) for the apple II and atari 800+. Basically a cut-down Star Fleet Battles clone for the computer, one of my favorites but I can't seem to make an image or find it for the Atari... The ultima sets are really cool, I think I have the set (the first is the re-issue for the apple) , how many were there? Pavl_ > > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > This is especially important if any of the titles are from Infocom... > > > > Indeed, Infocom games can represent a whole subclass of collecting. > > Yep. > > > I've got Zork on 8" disk in the original packaging for CP/M systems ;) > > Cool! My oldest Zork is the edition published by Personal Software > for the TRS-80. It's the only reason I want to have one (well... > that plus we had a Model III and Model IV at my high school - they > were replaced by Rainbows, but that's a different story). > > I didn't buy it (nothing to run it on at the time), but I remember > seeing the RT-11 version of either Starcross or Planetfall (RX01) > on the wall at the Digital Store in Downtown Columbus, c. 1984. > > > Exactly my point. The maps that came with each Ultima are also an > > example. > > Them, too. I'm sure there's lots of examples in the gaming world. > > -ethan From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Mar 7 09:21:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030307151315.00b6e6a0@slave> Hello again, Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for the ICL OPD and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? I can swap it for one which "sort of" works: you can receive calls with it (on either line), but it doesn't seem to like dialling out. Specifically, it seems to work when its cold, but after warming up for 1/2hr or so, it refuses to make the proper dialling noises, pressing the buttons just seems to cut the line for 1/4second or so, then the dial tone is back... Willing to pay postage from wherever, and maybe 75p & a packet of rolos (aka comp.sys.sinclair standard purchase price) as well. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Mar 7 09:22:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: New bounties ($$$) In-Reply-To: <20030307054400.90236.18968.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030307151932.42338.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > There was a program I used for serial port sharing > back around 1986 or so. It was a DOS TSR. You'd run > the "host" TSR on the machine with the port(s) to > share, and the other machines would run client > TSR's. I just looked, and I don't seem to have it, > or anything that seems to jog my memory. > Unfortunately, I don't recall it's name. It's part of DOS 4.0 and up... Interlnk.exe and Intersvr.exe I don't remember exactly how to do it. One of the two programs goes into the config.sys of it's computer, and the other is run from a DOS prompt. I always found Laplink easier for file transfer, though I used this method to share my desktop floppy with my laptop that didn't have one. Regards, Al From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Mar 7 09:26:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 In-Reply-To: <20030307054400.90236.18968.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030307152316.45523.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > If it's a 40 pin chip then you might br able to do > it by a process of elimination! > > The 5 40 pin chips in a Dragon or CoCo are 6809E, > 6883, 6847, 2 off 6821. Good point. But, I need to know which chip goes in which position... Using your idea, it looks like the two missing chips are the 6809 and the 6883 (which would make sense, as Bob sold those as spare parts). But, I don't think it would be a good idea to put the wrong one in the wrong place, and I still need a set of ROMS. Al From dgari at msn.com Fri Mar 7 13:34:00 2003 From: dgari at msn.com (David Gari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay Message-ID: Joe, The RQM Systems Power-Start boot loader board has 16 'load address' switches (set to C000h), 8 'sense' switches, and 8 each called 'IN 376', 'IN 375', and 'IN 374' (obviously octal representation). There is a 'Board Enable' paddle switch on the right, tons of basic TTL and a 74S472 PROM (512x8 bits) with room for one more. Probably loads the disk controller start code... >Message: 19 >Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 19:34:44 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >David, > > I looked at your auction. What is this > "one RQM Systems Power-Start >boot loader board w/ 48 DIP switches"? I had two Altairs and one had the >MITs autostart board. It was a standard MITs EPROM board with one >pre-programmed 1702 in it that contained the same code that you normally >had to toogle in by hand. IIRC the code was only 48 bytes or some such. No >DIP switches on it though. > > Joe As for your question below Sellam, I'll give you 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count. P.S. I'm unemployed. David Gari >Message: 23 >Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:08:25 -0800 (PST) >From: Vintage Computer Festival >To: >Subject: Re: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >Hi David. > >Why on Earth would you be selling your "pride and joy"? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 7 13:47:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: (Fwd) A 4331 in MA, USA Message-ID: <3E690518.9537.8286F176@localhost> I just got news about a nice 4331 to be scraped in MA. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "Dom Rodriguez" To: "Hans Franke" Subject: RE: Ausstellungsidee Date sent: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:30:13 -0800 > > We have an IBM 4331 System with peripherals that would like to sell > I assume the Computer is lovated in the US? > Unless it's in Germany, I can't realy do anything. > I took the Producer of the US VCF on CC, maybe he > is interested or knows someone. > Best Regards > H. Yes it is in Massachusetts, if you have any referrals please let us know. It includes tape drives, disk drives, 1401 printer 2540 card reader punch etc Thanks Dom Rodriguez ------- End of forwarded message ------- The 4331 is (in my opinion) eventualy the single most desirable classic /370 Machine for a proivate collector. It's reasonable compact, but got all the bells and whistles of a real IBM of the early '80s. Ok, the odd I/O chanels are a minus, but beside that it can't co better for the spacewise challenged amon us. It looks almost as if he thinks he may still get money, but he might learn soon that he should be happy if someone is willing to pick it up without having him to pay for that service. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 7 14:07:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030307200347.37371.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > I'd like to know the pinouts for the power connector (6 pins) and or > battery > pack (4 contacts) for the Compaq SLT286. I have a battery pack, but it is > dead and too well sealed for me to want to open it up. Please post publicly (or send me a copy). I have an SLT286, no battery, no brick, but at least it has a docking station. It's where my device programmer ended up. After performing surgery on my Dallas module, I found a spare one on a dead PeeCee mobo that I transplanted and I'm back business, but because I put low-profile socket pins in the SLT motherboard, there wasn't enough clearance to put the aluminim skins back on - I decided to cut a small hole in the bottom of the battery compartment - the Dallas module now sticks up about .5 mm. :-( On the bright side, the battery compartment gave me a place to rest my CR2032 that I attached to the internal leads of the old Dallas module before I found a replacement. :-) -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 7 14:11:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030307200804.73114.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Kearney wrote: > > The oldest SRAMs I have are 2101s; I have never > > even seen a 1101 close up, so I guess I'd need the whole enchilada > > when it comes to "odd parts". > > However, they (being of 1973ish vintage > and rare) cost me a fair amount, $4 ea, and I'd need to recover that. > I think I have 26 of them, so 3 banks totalling 768 bytes. I'm wrestling with a partial redesign or a complete replica. I guess if I had the total costs laid-out in column A and column B format, it would be easier to decide. Were you besiged by requests? > p.s. my Mark-8: http://www.jkearney.com/8008/ Nice. You did one run of boards? How much did they cost? -ethan From dan at ekoan.com Fri Mar 7 15:12:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: HP 9845B possibly available in Australia In-Reply-To: <000301c2e42e$18b15aa0$5501a8c0@bundall> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030306062524.047c9140@enigma> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030307160620.06b60d10@enigma> Hello, There may be a Hewlett-Packard 9845B computer coming up for sale in Queensland, Australia. As much as I'd like this machine, it would be too expensive (for me) to have it shipped from down under to the United States. If anyone closer, or better funded, is interested in this classic machine, contact me off list and I'll give you the details. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From jplist at kiwigeek.com Fri Mar 7 15:22:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? In-Reply-To: <20030307200347.37371.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > > I'd like to know the pinouts for the power connector (6 pins) and or > > battery > > pack (4 contacts) for the Compaq SLT286. I have a battery pack, but it is > > dead and too well sealed for me to want to open it up. > -ethan > Please post publicly (or send me a copy). I have an SLT286, no battery, > no brick, but at least it has a docking station. It's where my device I'm not entirely sure if I've done this right (Gee, there's confidence for you), but: The battery, when looking at it towards the connectors: ---------------------- | XXXX | |______________________| Where X's are contacts, from left to right: GND, 12.5v, 12.5v, 13.3v (Batt is Compaq part #130538, Model 2682) I don't know enough about electronics to understand how the power supply works. The unit has two lights, which I'm guessing are 'On' and 'Charging Battery'. When the unit is first turned on, the 'On' pulses. There are Eight pins, not 6: (Piss poor ASCII arrangement on left, my pin numbering on right) X X X 1 2 3 X X X 4 5 6 _ _ 7 8 If you cross 3 & 6, the 'On' light stays on, presumably the trigger to tell it to send voltage. With one probe between the 3&6, and another on 4, I get 18vDC. Unfortunately my limited understanding of how this kind of thing works is as far as I can determine. My apologies. Better than nothing at all, I hope. If you can explain what else to look for, I have a multimeter and am willing to fiddle. I have a complete SLT286 with its little carry bag and even the numeric keypad clip-on. No docking station though. JP Hindin From jim at jkearney.com Fri Mar 7 15:35:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <20030307200804.73114.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030307200804.73114.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I'm wrestling with a partial redesign or a complete replica. I guess > if I had the total costs laid-out in column A and column B format, > it would be easier to decide. The Mark-8 design is markedly inefficient; ones with many fewer ICs are pretty easy to come up with. It's not especially anachronistic to use 2112's or 2101's, which are relatively easy to come by. > Were you besiged by requests? I wouldn't say I was inundated, but I'm happy to say that will be going to someone who will put them into an actual 1976 Mark-8. > Nice. You did one run of boards? How much did they cost? Thanks. No, I got the basic board set from Steve Gabaly, who's been selling them on and off for a couple of years. He seems to be actively selling again, as 'obtronix'. Jim From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 7 15:44:00 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay & 2114's References: <20030307200804.73114.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c2e4f2$3dbcd800$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kearney" > The Mark-8 design is markedly inefficient; ones with many fewer ICs are > pretty easy to come up with. It's not especially anachronistic to use > 2112's or 2101's, which are relatively easy to come by. > If you were wirewrapping or point to point soldering, you might consider 2114 static rams. Might be easier to get hold of thah 2101/2102s or 1101, but they won't fit into the original or copied Mark-8 boards. The pain and weakness of the Mark 8 design is the bus connection scheme- soldered wires and molex across the top. It would be better if you can use RA SIP connectors.. heinz From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 7 15:59:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay & 2114's In-Reply-To: <002101c2e4f2$3dbcd800$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <20030307215535.1012.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Heinz Wolter wrote: > If you were wirewrapping or point to point soldering, you > might consider 2114 static rams. Might be easier to get > hold of thah 2101/2102s or 1101, but they won't fit into > the original or copied Mark-8 boards. Personally, I have quantities of 2114s left over from the COMBOARD-I parts tubs (32K of SRAM each) and plenty of dud COMBOARDs I could strip if I *ever* ran out. As has been discussed here, though, they have long-term reliability issues, but they are still widely available. BG Micro stocks them as well as 2102s, IIRC. > The pain and weakness of the Mark 8 design is the bus > connection scheme- soldered wires and molex across the top. It's ugly and prone to problems, I know. If I can find a quantity of 44-pin .156" proto hardware at Dayton this year, I'm considering wrapping my own. I need a supply of WW wire, too... I'm down to two spools. I need some 44-pin cards anyway for Commodore and Cosmac VIP projects. -ethan From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 7 16:03:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? Message-ID: Thanks, this is a good start. Question, though: on the brick, is pin 4 positive or negative? Bob -----Original Message----- From: JP Hindin [mailto:jplist@kiwigeek.com] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:19 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? The battery, when looking at it towards the connectors: ---------------------- | XXXX | |______________________| Where X's are contacts, from left to right: GND, 12.5v, 12.5v, 13.3v (Batt is Compaq part #130538, Model 2682) I don't know enough about electronics to understand how the power supply works. The unit has two lights, which I'm guessing are 'On' and 'Charging Battery'. When the unit is first turned on, the 'On' pulses. There are Eight pins, not 6: (Piss poor ASCII arrangement on left, my pin numbering on right) X X X 1 2 3 X X X 4 5 6 _ _ 7 8 If you cross 3 & 6, the 'On' light stays on, presumably the trigger to tell it to send voltage. With one probe between the 3&6, and another on 4, I get 18vDC. JP Hindin From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Mar 7 16:03:19 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Univac $$$ on E-OverPay In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030306191524.01b8b0b8@slave> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > IMHO, if he was serious about selling it, he'd be auctioning it > through a "proper" auction house (ala Christies), and be looking for > $100K minimum. It is, after all, possibly the oldest surviving large > electronic computer on the planet... You should visit the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. They've some pretty nifty stuff in their visible storage area. The Johnniac comes to mind. When I visited in January, I jokingly mentioned to my gf that the Johnniac looked like it was made from 1950s era supermarket display refridgerators. Later during the tour, we found out that it was. Other items on display included large chunks of a SAGE system, the WISC computer, at least one of the ILLIACs, and a rack from the ENIAC. I'm looking forward to when they finally get settled in their new location which used to be the SGI headquarters building. -brian. From Applelisamac at aol.com Fri Mar 7 16:32:00 2003 From: Applelisamac at aol.com (Applelisamac@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Macintosh Portable battery rebild follow-up. Message-ID: <11f.1f244e41.2b997ee4@aol.com> dear sirs I was reading about getting a battery for my macintosh portable .I was interested in the messege posted here , where can I get the battery rebuilt ? I love my portable and want to keep it in daily use as long as I can . please ,if you take the time to mail me and let me know the phone numberof the rebuilder and name . I would be very greatful sincerely: tom------my e-mail address is applelisamac@aol.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 7 16:34:34 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Thomas Dzubin > Sent: 06 March 2003 21:45 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > > > If you are VERY familiar with your home city, you can also scout out > the garage sales in communities which were "new" in the 1970s > > I see things like Mattel Intellivison's, original Apple II systems and > such but they always seem to appear in areas which were newly built > in the early 1970s. My wife and I attend garage sales all through > our city, but only certain neighbourhoods seem to have the classic > computers. > > Still looking for a working Exidy Sorcerer... In that case *don't* read the newest entry in my museum guestbook :( -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 7 16:36:12 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony: > to a factory sale auction where there was a floppy drive MINC. I noticed > it contained the (IMHO somewhat rare) pre-amp and thermocouple modules, > neither of which I had. Amazingly I got it for the opening bid of \pounds > 2.00 Hehe, just like London Buses eh? :) > Is this connected to the top edge connector (which should have a > connector block with screw terminals plugged onto it), or is it wired to > component leads on the PCB or what? It's on the top edge connector and also has some sort of resistor stuck in a big plastic box wired to one of the lines. > Sure, but for some odd reason MINCs seem to have them. All mine do, and > AFAIK none were ever used with a parallel printer. Weird, unless the aim was to use the serial lines for other connections? The MINC Newsletters are great; full of 1970s boffinry and blokes with beards prodding things while MINC does the data collection and plots it nicely on the VT105 :) I just need the extra module for my VT100 and I'm sorted! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 7 16:37:53 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO question In-Reply-To: <064301c2e3a4$96825220$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Stuart Johnson > Sent: 06 March 2003 05:53 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO question > > Could someone enlighten me as to the status of the ISO? I'm ready > to test my > InfoServer 1000 module I got last fall and it would be nice to do any > upgrades, etc during the same interval. Hi Stuart, It's done :) However I didn't post the FTP address after I watched Fred NvK download it to his ISO store and realised I'd have to throttle upload speeds since it really slowed my router down, and that was just one upload!. If Fred doesn't pick up on this and post his links contact me off list and I'll tell you where to get 'em. cheers Oh - I've just checked my transfer log and you've got 'em anyway :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 7 16:39:32 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: <20030306155415.2246.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Al Hartman > Sent: 06 March 2003 15:54 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Atari ST spares > > Atari decided to save a couple cents on each machine > by not buffering the select signals. They are pretty > dicey so that if you hook up a generic 720k Floppy > drive, you sometimes have trouble with them. You're right there! Having said that the drive I dug out could have been bad itself; it was in the big box of spares the missus brought back when she left her IT technician job 3 years ago and was untested. > Try getting a generic 720k drive and putting it on... > > Is this an internal or external drive? Internal. The keyboard damage and subsequent repair is interesting since I don't see how it could've happened without breaking either the case or the keys themselves; it's like something's punched right through the circuit board and physically broken it, enough to push a section of it out by 2-3mm, and I don't believe that someone would go to the trouble of replacing the top section of the keyboard AND repair the circuit board. The hole's been shored up with a hot glue gun and the tracks replaced with nice blue wires soldered in.... -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From jonmonk at orange.net Fri Mar 7 16:41:10 2003 From: jonmonk at orange.net (Jon Monk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: free Tektronix 7603 manual for shipping costs Message-ID: <000601c2e4b4$fd312da0$5d2e883e@jonny5> I don't suppose you still have this manual do you? I have just acquired the scope without any documentation and would like to get hold of some. I am happy to pay for any shipping costs. Regards Jon From benrmac at yahoo.com Fri Mar 7 16:42:48 2003 From: benrmac at yahoo.com (Ben Richey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Toshiba T3100, NEC MultiSpeed EL, Zenith Data Systems ZWL-184-97 Message-ID: <20030307204220.34693.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> I have recently acquired a Toshiba T3100, a NEC MultiSpeed EL, and a Zenith Data Systems ZWL-184-97. If anyone is interested in purchasing any or all of these computers, please email me seperately from this list (personally) at benrmac@yahoo.com and let me know. Thank you very much. Ben From teor at nmia.com Fri Mar 7 16:44:26 2003 From: teor at nmia.com (Timothy Rutherford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: tektronix 4205 & 4207 Message-ID: <1047071878.3e690c86d56b0@www.nmia.com> hello i am looking for some tektronix 4205 and 4207 terminals. does anybody have some that they would like to sell? or could you point me in the right direction. tim rutherford teor@nmia.com 505-550-5110 From jgdub6 at earthlink.net Fri Mar 7 16:46:05 2003 From: jgdub6 at earthlink.net (Lawrence Pettett) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Premium SoftCard //e Message-ID: <3E691334.49DE2859@earthlink.net> I once owned an Apple//e enhanced with the Microsoft Softcard. I am desperately searching for a way to read five Apple//e floppies, created on this machine. Any help would put me in your debt forever! (Ontrack wants $150/floppy to try to convert, with no guarantees!) ...Larry ...jgdub6@earthlink.net From jim at jkearney.com Fri Mar 7 16:48:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay & 2114's In-Reply-To: <20030307215535.1012.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <002101c2e4f2$3dbcd800$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <20030307215535.1012.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > If you were wirewrapping or point to point soldering, you > > might consider 2114 static rams. Might be easier to get > > hold of thah 2101/2102s or 1101, but they won't fit into > > the original or copied Mark-8 boards. > > Personally, I have quantities of 2114s left over from the COMBOARD-I > parts tubs (32K of SRAM each) and plenty of dud COMBOARDs I could > strip if I *ever* ran out. 2114's don't quite feel 'right' to me for a period 8008 computer. I guess it's because I had an 8008 in 1976 but no 2114's until 1979. Personally I would stick to 2102's or 2112's, but that's entirely subjective. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 7 17:06:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 7, 3 09:34:26 am Message-ID: > Tony: > > > to a factory sale auction where there was a floppy drive MINC. I noticed > > it contained the (IMHO somewhat rare) pre-amp and thermocouple modules, > > neither of which I had. Amazingly I got it for the opening bid of \pounds > > 2.00 > > Hehe, just like London Buses eh? :) Yeah, ypu wait for ages then 3 come along at once :-) > > > Is this connected to the top edge connector (which should have a > > connector block with screw terminals plugged onto it), or is it wired to > > component leads on the PCB or what? > > It's on the top edge connector and also has some sort of resistor stuck in a > big plastic box wired to one of the lines. As you've probably discovered by now, the top connectors on the MINC modules are for user I/O. The DAC outputs (and other I/O lines) are there, for example. So presumably this was a connector for the user's experiment. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 7 17:07:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Atari ST spares In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 7, 3 09:47:37 am Message-ID: > The keyboard damage and subsequent repair is interesting since I don't see > how it could've happened without breaking either the case or the keys > themselves; it's like something's punched right through the circuit board > and physically broken it, enough to push a section of it out by 2-3mm, and I > don't believe that someone would go to the trouble of replacing the top > section of the keyboard AND repair the circuit board. > The hole's been shored up with a hot glue gun and the tracks replaced with > nice blue wires soldered in.... Had this been a TRS-80 M3 or M4, I could understand it. There's a plastic post in the case that seems to be designed to punch a nice hole in the keyboard PCB (a horrible SRBP thing) if you drop something heavy on the keyboard. Please don't ask how I discovered this ;-) -tony From kittstr at access-4-free.com Fri Mar 7 17:49:00 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: <009901c2e4f2$eaba9470$f6d0f6d1@amscomputer> I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be interested. ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 7 17:56:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. References: <009901c2e4f2$eaba9470$f6d0f6d1@amscomputer> Message-ID: <3E692FDD.30403@jetnet.ab.ca> Andrew Strouse wrote: > I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be interested. > > ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 But you need a PAIR of them :) From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Mar 7 18:18:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Witchy wrote: > It's done :) However I didn't post the FTP address after I > watched Fred NvK download it to his ISO store and realised > I'd have to throttle upload speeds since it really slowed > my router down, and that was just one upload!. If Fred > doesn't pick up on this and post his links contact me off > list and I'll tell you where to get 'em. I told him off-list. > Oh - I've just checked my transfer log and you've got 'em > anyway :) Yup. Unless something really scary happens this weekend, I should have my archive online by sun sight, which includes the InfoServer ISO's. --fred From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Mar 7 18:42:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Macintosh Portable battery rebild follow-up. In-Reply-To: <11f.1f244e41.2b997ee4@aol.com> References: <11f.1f244e41.2b997ee4@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030308003921.8CC8129ADF@www.fastmail.fm> Thank you Tom for showing intrest in my old message! Sad to say, I don't know of any company that rebuilds Mac Portable batteries. I know Dynamic Engineering (?) used to do it, but as of about three years ago, they discontinued that service. I was able to rebuild mine myself, it is not an overly difficult project. On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:49:40 EST, Applelisamac@aol.com said: > dear sirs I was reading about getting a battery for my macintosh portable > .I > was interested in the > messege posted here , where can I get the battery rebuilt ? I love my > portable and want to keep it > in daily use as long as I can . please ,if you take the time to mail me > and > let me know the phone numberof the rebuilder and name . I would be very > greatful > sincerely: tom------my e-mail address is applelisamac@aol.com > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Mar 7 20:02:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) References: <008401c2e43d$50617f20$7d00a8c0@george> <3E683093.6010508@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000501c2e516$80ac6c60$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:39 AM Subject: Re: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > felony-to-take-it-outta-the-donation-bin laws, > > I'd never take something out of the donation bin..... That would be > stealing it since the original owner was giving it to the charity. I don't object to people trading. Just cut out the markup in the middle, the way I see it. Also, as a general rule, I don't have too much problem with people taking stuff out either, the assumption being that they need it, but just plain stealing is wrong. There was a case here a while back, some dudes saw a couple of guys cleaning out a bin into a panel truck. They *chased* them until the police caught up! I probably wouldn't have done that. > > > and I've a hunch they'd apply > > it to the dumpsters too. > > on the other hand.... out of the dumpster is okay since it isn't wanted > by the original owner or the charity. It also keeps stuff out of landfills. Except the dumpster is private property. Theft pure and simple, in the eyes of the law. Not that I would pass one up... > > The city has also started enforcing the > > it's-litter-if-it-ain't-in-the-bin laws, it'll be interesting to see what > > happens the first time they bust someone for taking something from outside > > the bin. > > We don't actually have bins anymore around here, that I know of...... > people kept setting them on fire!! I do see things stacked outside of > the Goodwill store, under the canopy, However. A lot of places won't allow a bin anymore, but they're still outside the thrift stores. Stacks outside are what's considered litter and subject to prosecution, according to the new signs up. > > Chad Fernandez Bob From jplist at kiwigeek.com Fri Mar 7 20:14:01 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Thanks, this is a good start. > Question, though: on the brick, is pin 4 positive or negative? They're all +vDC. I charged the batt up, and now 2 & 3 show 12.9v, and 4 shows 13.9v, so there's some tolerances for you. (Nothing you didn't expect, I'm sure) JP > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: JP Hindin [mailto:jplist@kiwigeek.com] > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:19 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? > > > > The battery, when looking at it towards the connectors: > ---------------------- > | XXXX | > |______________________| > Where X's are contacts, from left to right: > GND, 12.5v, 12.5v, 13.3v > (Batt is Compaq part #130538, Model 2682) > > > I don't know enough about electronics to understand how the power supply > works. The unit has two lights, which I'm guessing are 'On' and 'Charging > Battery'. When the unit is first turned on, the 'On' pulses. > There are Eight pins, not 6: (Piss poor ASCII arrangement on left, my pin > numbering on right) > > X X X 1 2 3 > X X X 4 5 6 > _ _ 7 8 > > If you cross 3 & 6, the 'On' light stays on, presumably the trigger to > tell it to send voltage. > With one probe between the 3&6, and another on 4, I get 18vDC. > > > JP Hindin From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Mar 7 20:17:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Fw: 60MB DBA hard drives available (UK) Message-ID: <003801c2e518$9aa22a90$7d00a8c0@george> This might be interesting to someone. Replys to original authour, etc. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: 60MB DBA hard drives available > I have a load of 60MB hard drives available, with the DBA attachment. > These are suitable (as most will know) for 50, 55, 70, P70 etc... > > I have about 25 of them. Anyone have have as many of these as they want > for cost of shipping, or they'll have to go in the bin - SWMBO wants her > living room back! > > In the UK, of course...doubt it's worth shipping elsewhere except > perhaps mainland Europe. > > -- > Bob Eager > rde at tavi.co.uk > PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2, > 8580*6, > 8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT.. > http://www.tavi.co.uk > http://www.ardent-tool.org.uk >  From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Mar 7 20:27:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Fw: removing old AS/400 (AZ) Message-ID: <004e01c2e51a$04c00a40$7d00a8c0@george> Someone local might want to call this guy. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Miller" Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.as400.misc Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:52 PM Subject: removing old AS/400 > We have an old AS/400 Model F system that is no longer in service > (with a tear in my eye I powered it down for the last time today). I > need to find a company of that will remove it from our office. Can > someone point me in the direction of a company that will do this? We > are located in Arizona between Phoenix and Tucson. > > Thanks for any help and suggestions. > > > Jeff From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 7 20:38:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <3E692FDD.30403@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <009901c2e4f2$eaba9470$f6d0f6d1@amscomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030307213814.48cf94ac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:48 PM 3/7/03 -0700, ben franchuk wrote: >Andrew Strouse wrote: >> I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be interested. >> >> ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 > > >But you need a PAIR of them :) Not if you send messages to yourself! Joe :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 7 20:39:48 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <009901c2e4f2$eaba9470$f6d0f6d1@amscomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030307213657.48cfa006@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Damm! Now there's something that you don't see everyday! Joe At 04:45 PM 3/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be interested. > >ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 7 21:20:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay & 2114's References: <20030307215535.1012.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c2e521$23ff2380$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Ethan Dicks wrote: ... > As has been discussed here, though, they have long-term reliability > issues, but they are still widely available. BG Micro stocks them > as well as 2102s, IIRC. I know - they're very static sensitive - and extremely power hungry! when they go, they get even hotter ;) ... > If I can find a quantity of 44-pin .156" proto hardware at Dayton > this year, I'm considering wrapping my own. I need a supply of > WW wire, too... I'm down to two spools. I need some 44-pin cards > anyway for Commodore and Cosmac VIP projects. Radio Shaft used to carry these - they were my fave proto boards as a teenager - being my last resort for parts, but the only source for people living in small cities, Radio Scrap hardly carries anything useful to the hobbyist. They do carry a not half bad wire wrap tool but their ww wire was prohibitively expensive. I picked up a couple of 1000ft rolls of flourescent orange and red from the local surplus place- so I've set for a while. I've seen deals on teflon, but it's too hard to strip. I'd love to get one of those professional ww guns though - make life alot easier for my half dozen ww projects currently in progress... -heinz From cb at mythtech.net Fri Mar 7 21:59:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:08 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) Message-ID: >Except the dumpster is private property. Theft pure and simple, in the eyes >of the law. I'm not a lawyer, but this might be a regional opinion. I know the cops around here at least don't consider it private property unless A: the owner of the land chooses to press charges, or B: the property is some how restricted access or not normally public access. So for example, the dumpster I raided the other day, it was in the parking lot of a publically accessable and open building (a gym, a realtor, and a weight clinic), so the police wouldn't consider that private property unless the owner of the land (unlikely to be any of the tenants) choose to press tresspassing charges. But, the dumpster behind the local good will, probably WOULD be considered that by the police, because it is in the back parking lot of the building (which is not open for customer parking, its only available to the public when they are dropping things off), AND, the entire lot is chained off when the store is closed. And of course curbside garbage is always open season around here. The only time the cops hassle you on that is if you make a mess. But good garbage pickers always make sure they clean up after themselves. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Mar 7 22:04:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: >Damm! Now there's something that you don't see everyday! I wonder how many are out there in private (non government) hands. I have seen one, in the D-Day Museum in New Orleans. -chris From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 7 23:31:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Unibus SMS controller ID help needed Message-ID: Hi, Recently bought an 11/04 on epay, seems to be in fairly good shape, it has one mass storage card in it, and it's one I'm not familiar with. Quad Unibus, bright green PCB, made by SMS, model FD1100I. A single ribbon cable, which seems to be identical to a modern 3.5" floppy drive cable, except it's keyed differently - a 'corner' pinhole is filled. Boot ROMs on the M9312 are hand lettered E35-4325 (ROM 1) and E33-4325 (ROM 2). It boots into an apparently standard console emulator. Any clues? The 'FD' part number and the fact that it *looks* like a floppy disk cable might be a bit... obvious! :-) Cheers Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 7 23:53:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, chris wrote: > >Damm! Now there's something that you don't see everyday! > > I wonder how many are out there in private (non government) hands. Plenty. These things aren't all that rare. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Mar 8 00:09:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030307213814.48cf94ac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <181B8AF4-512C-11D7-A644-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Well it seems I am from france or somthing... EBAY wont let me see the auction. On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 09:38 PM, Joe wrote: > At 04:48 PM 3/7/03 -0700, ben franchuk wrote: >> Andrew Strouse wrote: >>> I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be >>> interested. >>> >>> ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 >> >> >> But you need a PAIR of them :) > > Not if you send messages to yourself! > > Joe :-) From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Mar 8 00:25:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO question References: Message-ID: <082401c2e53a$f46ec840$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: ; Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:40 AM Subject: RE: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO question > Hi Stuart, > > It's done :) However I didn't post the FTP address after I watched Fred NvK > download it to his ISO store and realised I'd have to throttle upload speeds > since it really slowed my router down, and that was just one upload!. If > Fred doesn't pick up on this and post his links contact me off list and I'll > tell you where to get 'em. > > cheers > > Oh - I've just checked my transfer log and you've got 'em anyway :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans Witchy, Thanks so much! Fred told me where to get them and I did. I'll be glad to make a CDR for anyone for the cost of shipping, assuming I'm not inundated, for folks that don't want to download & make their own - or can't. Regards, Stuart From tim.myers at sunplan.com Sat Mar 8 02:21:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <181B8AF4-512C-11D7-A644-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: I get the same result in the UK too - damn ISP's rDNS entries; roll on the day when my ISP will let me control them. > Well it seems I am from france or somthing... > > EBAY wont let me see the auction. > > > On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 09:38 PM, Joe wrote: > >> At 04:48 PM 3/7/03 -0700, ben franchuk wrote: >>> Andrew Strouse wrote: >>>> I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: >>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 >>> >>> >>> But you need a PAIR of them :) >> >> Not if you send messages to yourself! >> >> Joe :-) From boo at inksworks.com Sat Mar 8 02:32:08 2003 From: boo at inksworks.com (Boo Inks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Outbound Message-ID: Hello, I got your name when I googled for ³Outbound Systems². I have an Outbound Laptop serial# 26700007 that was traded to me by Outbound when I produced their first Œhow-to² video on swapping the ROM. I¹m getting ready to move to the boat and take off and need to trade the computer for $. It is missing the cable that connects it to drive peripherals. It has a unique connector I¹ve never seen and I can¹t find anyone who knows where to find it. I have an external disk drive and the SCSI box. It must have the silicon drive because it needs a disk to boot. Any advice on finding the cable and where best to offer it all for sale? Thanks for your time. Boo Inks -- Inks - Communications That Work 2219 Westlake Drive; Ste 200 Austin, TX 78746 Office# 512/327-5995 Cell# 512/750-6491 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Mar 8 02:33:55 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030307151315.00b6e6a0@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 07 March 2003 15:17 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for > the ICL OPD > and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? I've got a spare but I don't think it's very well if you consider the state of the motherboard: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG The telephony module has a bit of masking tape on it containing the words 'faulty' so I guess that gives the game away somewhat :) > Willing to pay postage from wherever, and maybe 75p & a packet of rolos > (aka comp.sys.sinclair standard purchase price) as well. Hasn't it been upped to 85p and a packet of rolos to take inflation into account? (inflated rolos? Mmm :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From doc at docsbox.net Sat Mar 8 02:35:33 2003 From: doc at docsbox.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: New bounties ($$$) In-Reply-To: <20030307151932.42338.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > > Interlnk.exe > and > Intersvr.exe > > I don't remember exactly how to do it. > > One of the two programs goes into the config.sys of > it's computer, and the other is run from a DOS prompt. Yup. Intersrv (sp?) runs from config.sys. It's not too difficult, but I highly recommend a parallel link if both computers have bidirectional ports. It's a ton faster. Doc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 8 04:46:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. References: Message-ID: <001501c2e55f$c97902c0$0100000a@milkyway> Tim Myers wrote: > I get the same result in the UK too - damn ISP's rDNS entries; roll > on the day when my ISP will let me control them. Hmm, that's strange. It works fine on PIPEX. I'm on the Xtreme Solo ADSL (512k/256k) system BTW. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Mar 8 04:53:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto References: Message-ID: <3E69CB1A.3010909@gifford.co.uk> Witchy wrote: >>Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for >>the ICL OPD >>and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? I have one, but not a spare! :-( It's in an ICL One Per Desk, and of course is capable of pulse-dialling only. Have you considered repairing the one you've got? > I've got a spare but I don't think it's very well if you consider the state > of the motherboard: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG Has someone tried to desolder the chips? The damage looks like it's consistently opposite the pin 1 end of all the DIL parts. I'm sure we could work out what's missing if you want to attempt replacements. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Mar 8 04:54:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. References: <001501c2e55f$c97902c0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E69CB58.4070105@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Tim Myers wrote: > >>I get the same result in the UK too - damn ISP's rDNS entries; roll >>on the day when my ISP will let me control them. > > Hmm, that's strange. It works fine on PIPEX. I'm on the Xtreme Solo ADSL > (512k/256k) system BTW. Works for me, too. Gifford Internet 56k dial-up. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Mar 8 05:18:00 2003 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: HP41 problem.. Message-ID: <200303101220.56491.jos.mar@bluewin.ch> My (unexpanded) HP41c developed a strange problem... It still knows how to do the maths, but any value stored inside a register gets lost : i.e. 1234 STO 12, RCL 12 yields 0.000.... Any pointers ( also pointers to a more suitable group ? ) Jos Dreesen From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Mar 8 06:10:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030307213814.48cf94ac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >> I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be interested. > >> ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 > >But you need a PAIR of them :) But that doesn't render it COMPLETELY without value. Since it seems to be out of production, and the organization that originally commissioned it seems to be mostly gone, it might have some value as a spare, or to complete a set for somebody who was previously foolish enough to buy one by itself. From tim.myers at sunplan.com Sat Mar 8 06:28:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: OT: Why eBay won't let me see some auctions. Was 'possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay.' In-Reply-To: <001501c2e55f$c97902c0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: >> I get the same result in the UK too - damn ISP's rDNS entries; roll >> on the day when my ISP will let me control them. > Hmm, that's strange. It works fine on PIPEX. I'm on the Xtreme Solo ADSL > (512k/256k) system BTW. Your rDNS comes out as x-x-x-x.dsl.pipex.com, whereas mine comes out as dsl-x-x-x-x.zen.co.uk. As I've got an 8 IP range, I'd like to be able to have some .sunplan.co.uk rDNS entries, and some .sunplan.com rDNS entries, so I can be form wherever I like in situations like this, so stuff like the eBay filtering doesn't happen. Zen are promising custom rDNS 'some day', but it's not high on their priority list. Tim. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 8 07:10:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030308080032.3b272672@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:00 PM 3/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >>Damm! Now there's something that you don't see everyday! > >I wonder how many are out there in private (non government) hands. > >I have seen one, in the D-Day Museum in New Orleans. I doubt there are any still in governement hands except perhaps in museums. But stop and think for a moment, every unit of the German army, air force, navy and even railroad police had one during WW II. They must have made tens if not handreds of thousands of these! And that's not including the ones that were probably used by Germany's allies. How was the D-day Museum? I've heard about it and I'd like to see it some time. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 8 07:10:29 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: HP41 problem.. In-Reply-To: <200303101220.56491.jos.mar@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030308080647.3b1f914c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jos, You have a bad Data Storage IC. Depending on which version board is in your 41 it may have from 1 to 4 DS ICs but they are custom built ICs made by HP specificly for the HP 41 so you'll never find one. Time to find another 41 for parts. There are plenty of htem out there that have broken displays, bad power supply ICs and/or corroded battery terminals. Joe At 12:20 PM 3/10/03 +0100, you wrote: >My (unexpanded) HP41c developed a strange problem... >It still knows how to do the maths, but any value stored inside a register >gets lost : i.e. 1234 STO 12, RCL 12 yields 0.000.... > >Any pointers ( also pointers to a more suitable group ? ) > > Jos Dreesen From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Mar 8 07:12:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) References: Message-ID: <000001c2e573$fb7dca80$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:55 PM Subject: Re: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > >Except the dumpster is private property. Theft pure and simple, in the eyes > >of the law. > > I'm not a lawyer, but this might be a regional opinion. I know the cops > around here at least don't consider it private property unless A: the > owner of the land chooses to press charges, or B: the property is some > how restricted access or not normally public access. Cops have a lot of leeway in what they enforce, for good or for bad (sometimes common sense _does_ prevail!), but ISTR the owner always has the option of pressing charges. The cops might not care if they drove past and saw you, probably wouldn't as it's a frequent passtime of many, but if the owners called 'em... > > So for example, the dumpster I raided the other day, it was in the > parking lot of a publically accessable and open building (a gym, a > realtor, and a weight clinic), so the police wouldn't consider that > private property unless the owner of the land (unlikely to be any of the > tenants) choose to press tresspassing charges. I'd say `wouldn't feel the need ot enforce the law' as opposed to `wouldn't consider that private property'. If you're drunk and making a mess, tresspassing would probably come up even if nobody on site complained. > > But, the dumpster behind the local good will, probably WOULD be > considered that by the police, because it is in the back parking lot of > the building (which is not open for customer parking, its only available > to the public when they are dropping things off), AND, the entire lot is > chained off when the store is closed. Definintly have to be an in-and-out job here! > > > And of course curbside garbage is always open season around here. The > only time the cops hassle you on that is if you make a mess. But good > garbage pickers always make sure they clean up after themselves. Yah. I live close to OSU campus, in the fall when the kids move out, the pickings are *fabulous*. Peaseas, small electronics, clothes, leather coats, RK05s (honest, a pair of 'em!), all kinds of good stuff. We take everything that isn't broken, ripped or damaged, and whatever we don't end up wanting goes to goodwill. > > -chris Bob From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Mar 8 09:05:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <181B8AF4-512C-11D7-A644-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 10:06 PM, Ron Hudson wrote: > Well it seems I am from france or somthing... > > EBAY wont let me see the auction. Even stranger--- I could see this item from a PC laptop at home, but not from my Safari running Mac iBook. Waaaa! Anyway there are emulations of this beast for windows. > > > On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 09:38 PM, Joe wrote: > >> At 04:48 PM 3/7/03 -0700, ben franchuk wrote: >>> Andrew Strouse wrote: >>>> I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: >>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 >>> >>> >>> But you need a PAIR of them :) >> >> Not if you send messages to yourself! >> >> Joe :-) From owad at applefritter.com Sat Mar 8 09:17:01 2003 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <181B8AF4-512C-11D7-A644-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <181B8AF4-512C-11D7-A644-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20030308151424.3762@mail.earthlink.net> >Well it seems I am from france or somthing... > >EBAY wont let me see the auction. >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) ^^^^^ I'll bet you're using Safari. Try Internet Explorer or Mozilla instead. Why Safari blocks the WWII category of eBay, and whether or not it's intentional, I have no idea. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Mar 8 09:52:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8D6A1CB1-517D-11D7-9E8F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 10:02 AM, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 10:06 PM, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Well it seems I am from france or somthing... >> >> EBAY wont let me see the auction. > > Even stranger--- I could see this item from a PC laptop > at home, but not from my Safari running Mac iBook. > That is really weird. I use a Mac too, and I can't see it with Safari, but it works just fine with Mozilla. A bug in Safari perhaps? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 8 10:10:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. References: <8D6A1CB1-517D-11D7-9E8F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002401c2e58d$1c19d680$0100000a@milkyway> Ian Primus wrote: > That is really weird. I use a Mac too, and I can't see it with Safari, > but it works just fine with Mozilla. A bug in Safari perhaps? I've successfully viewed the auction with Mozilla 1.2 and (dare I say it) IE5.5. Both on Win98. I haven't tried it under Linux yet (been having too much "fun" fixing crap code and getting Xfree86 to behave) Later -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From lion at apocalypse.org Sat Mar 8 12:38:00 2003 From: lion at apocalypse.org (Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA Message-ID: Howdy all, I have 4 DecServer 200/MC and 28 (yes twenty-eight) DecServer 300 to give to anyone who is willing to pick them up in the upper valley region (Plainfield, NH to be exact, close to Darthmouth U/Hanover, NH) *OR* close to Harvard Square in Cambridge, MA. The units are in Plainfield right now.. I'll be in Cambridge from March 19th through around the 26th. I'm not willing to ship these to due to the quantity involved. Hope someone can give the DecServers a home.. -- Michael lion@apocalypse.org From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Mar 8 14:14:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Free Stuff in the Dallas Area Message-ID: <3E6A4F9D.2000905@charter.net> I have several items free for pickup in the Dallas area: Amiga 2000 with some type of accelerator board and a tape drive, mouse and keyboard; powers up and run's looks like it's running 3.1 Amiga 500 with an accelerator board; untested Amiga 500; untested A ton of Amiga software, a lot of games and a lot of programming tools some Amiga hardware, spare accel board, zorro breakout card, modem, some cables, 2 Commodore-Amiga monitors A Tandy 2000, keyboard, VM-1 monitor; powers up but I Tandy DWP printer with print wheel Calcomp 1043GT E size plotter and a couple of hundred pens, works but too much room Numonics 2200 E size digitizer with power supply and puck, again want to keep it but too much room All are free for pickup. I live in Rockwall (20 minutes from downtown Dallas) or I would take them to my office near Baylor hospital. I won't ship; it I was going to ship, I'd sell it on ebay. If it's not picked up by 3/16 or arrangements made for pickup, it's going on the curb for the landfill. -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From dgari at msn.com Sat Mar 8 14:34:00 2003 From: dgari at msn.com (David Gari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay Message-ID: Wayne, Right on count (2), and it IS like selling one of your blue metallic children that you've kept in a closet for 20 years so you can feed your real family. Auction in question: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404786716 David Gari P.S. I thought that everyone on the planet had all agreed 10 years ago to place new info in a message thread FIRST (on top) so we can get to the new stuff easily... >From: "Wayne M. Smith" >Subject: RE: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay >Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 00:33:35 -0800 > > > Hi David. > > Why on Earth would you be selling your "pride and joy"? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > Computer Festival > >Either because (1) it isn't, or (2) he's got another one. But, frankly, >it's like selling one of your children. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From cb at mythtech.net Sat Mar 8 14:36:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: > How was the D-day Museum? I've heard about it and I'd like to see it >some time. It was actually pretty interesting. I didn't expect to enjoy it being as I'm not a history buff (and slept thru most of my history classes). But my wife's grandfather served in WWII and was part of "Omaha Beach" (I'm pretty sure that was the one), so she really wanted to go. I found it to be far better than I expected, and am actually glad I went. It isn't very big, but there are a bunch of videos you can watch, and a TON of stuff to read. You can be in and out in an hour if you want, or 6 hours if you take your time. I think I was in there for about 3 or 4 hours myself. -chris From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Mar 8 14:56:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, David Gari wrote: > P.S. I thought that everyone on the planet had all agreed 10 years ago to > place new info in a message thread FIRST (on top) so we can get to the new > stuff easily... What are you trying to start ANOTHER flamewar about this topic?? Please don't... Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 8 15:56:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay References: Message-ID: <3E6A6590.4010807@jetnet.ab.ca> David Gari > P.S. I thought that everyone on the planet had all agreed 10 years ago > to place new info in a message thread FIRST (on top) so we can get to > the new stuff easily... Well nobody asked me. Mind you I may not have been on this planet 10 years ago. I don't care where you put your new information as along as you trim your posts. Ben. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Mar 8 16:06:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c2e5be$772cb200$373fcd18@D73KSM11> Everyone on the planet except this list. -W P.S. Oops! > Wayne, > > Right on count (2), and it IS like selling one of your blue metallic > children that you've kept in a closet for 20 years so you can > feed your real > family. > > Auction in question: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404786716 > > David Gari > > P.S. I thought that everyone on the planet had all agreed 10 > years ago to > place new info in a message thread FIRST (on top) so we can > get to the new > stuff easily... > > >From: "Wayne M. Smith" > >Subject: RE: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay > >Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 00:33:35 -0800 > > > > > Hi David. > > > Why on Earth would you be selling your "pride and joy"? > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > > Computer Festival > > > >Either because (1) it isn't, or (2) he's got another one. But, > >frankly, > >it's like selling one of your children. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From paul.shubel at verizon.net Sat Mar 8 16:15:01 2003 From: paul.shubel at verizon.net (Paul Shubel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #370 - 5 msgs References: <20030214180001.73484.61926.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000401c2e5c1$52067940$0300a8c0@MSHOME> > I tend to agree, but I would specialize that even further. As time goes on, > I become more convinced that ALU width should be the determinant of bittedness. > The 6809 requires multiple ALU passes for a 16 bit operation because the ALU > is 8 bits wide. The 68000 is a 16 bit processor for the same reason. > Hi Everyone, I have thought about this topic at length............... This is a much debated issue because microprocessors tend to have 8 and 16-bit instructions, while microcontrollers tend to have instructions that are limited to 8-bit operands. Really, does it matter what size the ALU is in silicon within the chip? I say no! When you are coding in assembly you're interested in what instructions are available to you. For example, the Z8, 8051, 6805, PIC16, etc.. have mainly 8-bit operations with few if any 16-bit operations. Note, please leave 16-bit jumps out of this discussion. The 6502 uses 8-bit operands also. On the other hand, the 8085, Z80, and 6801 are considered 8-bitters in the media but they have 16-bit operations that make them more powerful than the example micro-controllers above. Side note: Since these processors can handle 16-bit operands with ease, pointer arithmatic is very compact. Pointer arithmatic is very important when porting to high-level languages! I consider the 68HC11/6809 complete 16-bitters. Why not! They both have oodles of 16-bit operations, like the ever-useful 16-bit compare immediate! So here is how they stack-up: 8-Bitters: 6502, 6805, Z8, 8051, PIC16, TMS370, ST6 8/16-Bitters: 8085, Z80, ST7 16-Bitters: 68HC11, 6809, 8088/8086, 65816, 80C166, ST9 16/32-Bitters: 68000, Z8000, 80286 32-Bitters: 68020, 80386/Pentium, ARM, MIPS, NS32000 Cheers, Paul From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Mar 8 16:31:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Project Parts? Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030308172219.05a78b90@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Anyone recognize the bus type these go to? Might be good project parts? 5 Mupac Breadboard Prototype Cards NEW VME ?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403917114&category=36327 They're definitely not like any VME I've ever seen. From bkotaska at earthlink.net Sat Mar 8 16:32:00 2003 From: bkotaska at earthlink.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more References: <001d01c2e5c0$fb1f28c0$0200a8c0@ath700> Message-ID: <003b01c2e5c1$b170be40$0200a8c0@ath700> I live nearby and may be interested in some of these free goodies if they are still around. I just joined the group so can you contact me? Thanks. Bill Subject: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more I've finally come to realization that I do not need 2 (or more) of every computer I can latch on to. I have a complete IBM PCjr system with monitor and keyboard and several Apple IIGS systems all with keyboard, monitor and floppy drive. I also have some CoCo 2's, TI-99/4A's, some ugly Amiga 1000's and some C-64's. I realize these are aren't the rarest of computers but they are still fun to tinker with and the price is right. These are free for pickup only, I will not ship them. If you're passing through the St. Louis area on I-70 in St. Charles drop me a line and we can arrange a meeting. If you are able to stop by and feel like geeking out I have 300ish computers in the basement including an Atari 1400XL with 1090XL box, Altair 8800, IMSAI 8080, PET 2001 and others that you might like to check out. Nick From bkotaska at earthlink.net Sat Mar 8 17:49:00 2003 From: bkotaska at earthlink.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: New To List and PDP8 Question Message-ID: <001601c2e5cc$674290e0$0200a8c0@ath700> Hello, I am new to this group but have been reading the posts occasionally before finally joining. The site comes up alot when searching for info on old machines. I am interested in any type of old computer especially the single board trainer types from the early days of the microprocessors. I have built my own trainer based on the Intel 4004/4040 and have started to put a web site together with pics and info. It is in the early stages though - http://home.earthlink.net/~bkotaska/mcs4_micro.htm . I have also started to build a PDP8 clone from the Harris/Intersil uPs. Still need to gen up a front panel for this one. A computer is just not a computer without some kind of built-in feedback mechanism. (I guess it just makes you feel like you are in control of the machine instead of the other way around.) Building the PDP8 has really piqued my interest in the real thing. I've collected bits and pieces for awhile now and have finally obtained a 4K core stack - although it is not in great shape (any help in locating a better one would be greatly appreciated). Anyway my question to you PDP8 folks out there is this - I have the following pieces: front panel, M8300, M8310, M8320, M8330, M837, M8650, G104, G227. I also have a 20 slot omnibus backplane from a PDP8a. My guess is that I should be able to see some action on the front panel with just the first four modules present (i.e. no memory). Am I correct? I don't care at first if I can't read or write to memory. I just want to check out some of the control functions with as little hardware as possible. By the way, my front panel has mostly light blue and dark blue switch handles. Anyone seen this before? Thanks all, Bill From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 8 17:56:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: HP41 problem.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030308080647.3b1f914c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 8, 3 08:06:47 am Message-ID: > Jos, > > > You have a bad Data Storage IC. Depending on which version board > is in your 41 it may have from 1 to 4 DS ICs but they are custom built Didn't some HP41s haev 5 RAM (Data Storage) ICs? Each one 16 registers long (one for the 'status registers', 4 for the 64 user registers? > ICs made by HP specificly for the HP 41 so you'll never find one. Time A trick that works when you have a CV with one of the 'extra' DS chips failed (that's to say one of chips that hold registers after the first 64), is to crack open a single memory module (which are really common!), then extract the 'PCB' and wire it inside the 41, in place of the bad IC. Solder the B3 and B4 lines to put it at the right address. Yes, it's a kludge, but it works. And alas it's not applicable in this case. > to find another 41 for parts. There are plenty of htem out there that > have broken displays, bad power supply ICs and/or corroded battery > terminals. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I don't think I've ever seen a bad PSU chip in a 41. Bad CPUs I've had, though. Damaged battery contacts can be kludged over with a bit of care, so that's not a reason to regard a 41 as a 'parts' machine... -tony From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 8 18:52:00 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: New To List and PDP8 Question In-Reply-To: <001601c2e5cc$674290e0$0200a8c0@ath700> Message-ID: <200303090049.SAA13917@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Building the PDP8 has really piqued my interest in the real thing. I've > collected bits and pieces for awhile now and have finally obtained a 4K core > stack - although it is not in great shape (any help in locating a better one > would be greatly appreciated). I usually just buy the core stacks from DEC resellers. You pay a bit more, but you generally get something that has been cared for and works. > Anyway my question to you PDP8 folks out there > is this - I have the following pieces: front panel, M8300, M8310, M8320, > M8330, M837, M8650, G104, G227. I also have a 20 slot omnibus backplane from a > PDP8a. My guess is that I should be able to see some action on the front panel > with just the first four modules present (i.e. no memory). Am I correct? I > don't care at first if I can't read or write to memory. I just want to check > out some of the control functions with as little hardware as possible. Are you saying you have a case/power supply and omnibus? Or are you trying to cobble something together without case/ps? One of the main problems I had with my first 8/E, was that most of the front panel bulbs were burned out. Probably because once a few burn out, the voltage rises on the others causing them to burn out faster. > By the way, my front panel has mostly light blue and dark blue switch handles. > Anyone seen this before? Yes. Did you buy it on ebay about a year ago? -Lawrence LeMay From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Mar 8 19:28:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more References: <001d01c2e5c0$fb1f28c0$0200a8c0@ath700> <003b01c2e5c1$b170be40$0200a8c0@ath700> Message-ID: <091b01c2e5da$8e0ea1b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kotaska" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more > I live nearby and may be interested in some of these free goodies if they are > still around. I just joined the group so can you contact me? Thanks. > Bill > Subject: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more > > you are able to stop by and feel like geeking out I have 300ish computers in > the basement including an Atari 1400XL with 1090XL box, Altair 8800, IMSAI > 8080, PET 2001 and others that you might like to check out. > > Nick That is too bad about the shipping; I understand totally as I am disabled and shipping something is a major pain unless I want to pay extra to have it picked up. For that matter, boxing something up or unpacking stuff isn't a lot of fun for me with my bad back, etc. Like my mom told me, I should never have ridden that motorcycle in traffic! I really would like to have a fully working Apple II /GS system. I've been thinking about building a 65816 SBC and the Apple would make a nice development environment for it as well as being a classic computer. If someone has one to get rid of or sell reasonably, feel free to let me know off-list. Stuart Johnson From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Mar 8 19:34:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: New To List and PDP8 Question References: <001601c2e5cc$674290e0$0200a8c0@ath700> Message-ID: <092501c2e5db$71cfd680$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kotaska" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 5:42 PM Subject: New To List and PDP8 Question > Hello, > I am new to this group but have been reading the posts occasionally before > finally joining. The site comes up alot when searching for info on old > machines. I am interested in any type of old computer especially the single >Anyone seen this before? > > Thanks all, > Bill Bill, Welcome to the list. I looked at you site and your 4004/4040 project and it is very nice! Your web site is well organized and easy to navigate. One of these days I'm going to document some of my toys and build a site to display them. At least, I keep telling myself that :-) Stuart Johnson From rcini at optonline.net Sat Mar 8 20:59:00 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: IDing IBM Floppy Drive Parts Message-ID: <000501c2e5e7$45f81ed0$1501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: I got a couple of IBM-labeled Tandon drives and a MPI/Control Data drive. The Tandon drive is a standard TM100-2A and the CD drive has the following ID#s -- Part 77711801, IBM Part# 1502060. I'm trying to recycle these in my N* (double density setup). The jumper area is unlabeled on these drives, as is the terminator spot. On the Tandon drive, I found a TRW IC near the floppy connector...it has a designation "516-3-151G"...this seems to be the terminator. Can anyone confirm the placement of the terminator and the jumper block pinout for both drives? Any help appreciated. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 8 21:41:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, David Gari wrote: > P.S. I thought that everyone on the planet had all agreed 10 years ago to > place new info in a message thread FIRST (on top) so we can get to the new > stuff easily... No, we didn't. And one shameless plug for your eBay auction is enough, please. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sat Mar 8 22:30:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Free Scanning Electron Microscope Message-ID: <021601c2e5f4$21076970$3800a8c0@arctura> Free scanning electron microscope to whoever will come haul it away. It was left by the previous occupant of my lab, and it's blocking the hallway. I want it out of there. There are four main pieces, plus some parts and manuals in boxes. I don't know much about this, but I will describe it's appearance: - microscope unit - desk high box with precision stainless steel tower, shoulder high - ISI Robinson detector mounted on side - Perkin Elmer gizmo mounted up high - other probes and sample holders sticking out at odd angles - very rocket science - no other name plates visible without moving a lot of stuff - viewing station and analog controls console - name plate: ISI WB-6 - built-in CRT - lots of knobs and buttons - very mission control - Tracor Northern computer - floor standing console a little larger than an ASR-33 - two 5" floppies - card cage inside - Intel 8080 microprocessor - keyboard - no hard drive, don't think it ever had one - separate RGB CRT - a 2' box with lots of wires and tubes coming out of it - a 3~4 gallon tank that looks like it bolts on the side of the tower - a small rack with instrumentation modules in it The date plate on the back of the viewing console says 1985. It was used by our semiconductor quality control department to look at the insides of integrated circuits. Rumor has it that there is a vacuum leak in this somewhere, it probably needs a new gasket. It is already uninstalled and ready to roll away. I found a web page with a picture of a similar unit. Our machine has an very similar viewing console, but we have more stuff mounted on the microscope itself. http://www.optics.arizona.edu/Milster/Labdescriptions/Misc.htm ***NOTE*** This thing has a radiation sign on it (X-rays). Transportation and use is regulated by the Ohio Dept. of Health, Division of Radiology. I understand you need to get a permit to move or operate it. If you are really interested in this, you need to know how to get the required permits. If you are interested I can take some pictures and send them. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl j.r.engdahl@adelphia.net From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 9 01:01:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: IDing IBM Floppy Drive Parts In-Reply-To: <000501c2e5e7$45f81ed0$1501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > I got a couple of IBM-labeled Tandon drives and a MPI/Control Data drive. > The Tandon drive is a standard TM100-2A and the CD drive has the following > ID#s -- Part 77711801, IBM Part# 1502060. > > I'm trying to recycle these in my N* (double density setup). The jumper > area is unlabeled on these drives, as is the terminator spot. On the Tandon > drive, I found a TRW IC near the floppy connector...it has a designation > "516-3-151G"...this seems to be the terminator. > > Can anyone confirm the placement of the terminator and the jumper block > pinout for both drives? Any help appreciated. Rich, the terminator sounds right. One that I have differs only in a -1- vice your -3-. It is in position 2F nearest to the card edge connector. The programmable shunt in position 1E is as follows: 1 O HS NOT USED O 16 2 O DS0 O 15 3 O DS1 O 14 4 O DS2 O 13 5 O DS3 O 12 6 O MX O 11 7 O SPARE O 10 8 O HM NOT USED O 9 - don > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ From davol at globalnet.co.uk Sun Mar 9 02:01:00 2003 From: davol at globalnet.co.uk (Dave Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Collecting siilicn wafers Message-ID: I noted some time back that chip collectors are not highly regarded on this site - on the grounds that they are prepard to 'mine' perfectly functioning boards in pursuit of their interest. My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These are much more accessible for research and the interest does not conflict with those of other people. Are there other interested people out there? If this site is not the best for this sort of discussion can you recommend a better one? Dave From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sun Mar 9 03:30:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030307151315.00b6e6a0@slave> Message-ID: <0f4501c2e61e$15b44be0$0101a8c0@athlon> Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were called 'computerphones' down here. About the only useful function they had was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. They were just a year or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Vickers" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 4:16 AM Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > Hello again, > > Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for the ICL OPD > and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 9 04:59:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Progress Report Message-ID: <11668068877.20030309045546@subatomix.com> I've made some progress with my PDP-11/34. Since last week's PSU corn-fusion, I pulled all the cards, air-dusted them, air-dusted and inspected the backplanes, took an inventory of jumper and DIP switch settings, put a minimal CPU+mem+console card set in, connected the backplanes to the PSU, and turned on the machine. It was a little more complicated than that, but I've got what seems to be a working 11/34 in my living room. Learned: As I had mentioned previously, my M9312 had a strange start address dialed into its DIP switches by one of the previous owners. That has to be a mistake. When the machine boots, it immediately halts. If I manually start the processor at the correct address for the console emulator, I get a steady run light. I do not have a console terminal attached yet. Learned: A previous owner had a rocker-style DIP switch block on the console DL11-W set backwards (i.e. one's complement of the correct setting). The DL11-W was being configured with the wrong interrupt vector. Learned: If you plug in a G727A bus grant card backwards, the processor will not halt. :-) To do: My only existing cable that plugs into a DL11-W is for 20mA current loop. I have a current loop VT52 that I haven't yet tested. I'll see if I can do that tomorrow. After all, it would be nice to know if the register printout is actually occurring. It's so late it's early; therefore, I should go to bed. Tomorrow I'll run some test programs! -- Jeffrey Sharp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 9 07:47:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030309084751.12175254@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:32 PM 3/8/03 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, David Gari wrote: > >> P.S. I thought that everyone on the planet had all agreed 10 years ago to >> place new info in a message thread FIRST (on top) so we can get to the new >> stuff easily... > >No, we didn't. > >And one shameless plug for your eBay auction is enough, please. Why? The traffic has been sort of light on here lately. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 9 08:24:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: Collecting siilicn wafers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Dave Wilson wrote: > I noted some time back that chip collectors are not highly regarded > on this site - on the grounds that they are prepard to 'mine' perfectly > functioning boards in pursuit of their interest. Dave, certain chip collectors are not highly regarded on this mailing list. Responsible and non-obnoxious ones are quite welcome. > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These are > much more accessible for research and the interest does not conflict with > those of other people. > > Are there other interested people out there? If this site is not the best > for this sort of discussion can you recommend a better one? I don't know that this is necessarily the best place to discuss collecting wafers. I guess it depends on how or whether you objectify them. Why do you collect them? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 9 08:26:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <0f4501c2e61e$15b44be0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Dave Brown wrote: > Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know > what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an > EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? > I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as > partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were > called 'computerphones' down here. About the only useful function they had > was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. They were just a year > or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs > and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. Are these actual computers or just dumb terminals with a telephone built-in? I have a Northern Telecom unit like this. It's a smaller terminal with a phone handset and keypad on the base. A keyboard tray pulls out of the bottom of the base. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Mar 9 09:04:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:09 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto References: Message-ID: <3E6B5797.5070705@gifford.co.uk> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Are these actual computers or just dumb terminals with a telephone > built-in? They're real 68008 computers, based on the Sinclair QL design. The power supply (in the screen) is always on, at least in part, and the computer can be set up to auto-answer. The application software in ROM is all communication-centred, with things like dialling directories and (I think) a terminal emulator. Due to UK telecom regulations at the time of release, it wasn't able to act as a telephone answering machine, though. That was a function that only British Telecom were allowed to provide. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 9 10:44:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay References: Message-ID: <003901c2e65a$a0e989a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> "Vintage Computer Festival" wrote: > No, we didn't. > > And one shameless plug for your eBay auction is enough, please. > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Ah, the Royal We- Sellams speaks for us all. Speaking of lack of shame... how about all your calls for equipment and documentation- for your "paying customers". That is for a commercial venture, and not a personal, hobbyist sale, as this one is. h From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Mar 9 10:59:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: <003901c2e65a$a0e989a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Heinz Wolter wrote: > "Vintage Computer Festival" wrote: > > No, we didn't. > > > > And one shameless plug for your eBay auction is enough, please. > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > Ah, the Royal We- Sellams speaks for us all. Speaking of lack of shame... > how about all your calls for equipment and documentation- > for your "paying customers". That is for a commercial venture, > and not a personal, hobbyist sale, as this one is. I think I'd call anything sold on eBay (or otherwise to try to get more than just a 'token' amount... like $5-$10) to be a commercial venture. Hell, I'm a hobbyist but I'd be lying to your face if I tried to tell you that anything I put on ebay wasn't 'for profit' or any type of 'commercial venture'. And no, I don't have a problem with the ad's on here. I don't advertise auctions of mine on here; however, I don't usually auction things that are 'on-topic' for this list, either. Ok, time for me to get off of my soapbox. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Mar 9 11:18:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: <003901c2e65a$a0e989a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <001101c2e65f$5ee6a290$020010ac@k4jcw> Geez, give the poor guy a break. He's not selling this because he WANTS to. Didn't ANYONE read his message? He's unemployed, the economy sucks, he needs the money, and he's got an asset. I just wish I had the bucks to buy it. It's a really nice system. >As for your question below Sellam, I'll give you 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count. >P.S. I'm unemployed. >David Gari Good luck, David, and I hope you get as much as you can for it. It hurts to sell the things you care for because you have to, not because you want to. --John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 9 11:20:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Free Scanning Electron Microscope In-Reply-To: <021601c2e5f4$21076970$3800a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <20030309171729.86486.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > Free scanning electron microscope to whoever will come haul it away. I'm interested. Do you have any hints on how to start the permit process? Thanks, -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 9 11:24:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030309172102.38229.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael wrote: > Howdy all, > > I have 4 DecServer 200/MC and 28 (yes twenty-eight) DecServer 300 to give > to anyone who is willing to pick them up in the upper valley region > (Plainfield, NH to be exact, close to Darthmouth U/Hanover, NH) *OR* > close to Harvard Square in Cambridge, MA. Being in Ohio, pickup is not an option, but if any list members who _do_ show up to collect them in person are willing to ship Ohio, please write me off-list and let's make arrangements. I would be interested in one or two 300s, depending on shipping cost to 43017. Thanks, -ethan From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Mar 9 11:32:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA In-Reply-To: <20030309172102.38229.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Being in Ohio, pickup is not an option, but if any list members who > _do_ show up to collect them in person are willing to ship Ohio, please > write me off-list and let's make arrangements. Ethen (and everyone else who is interested), I am securing the beasties, with the help from Megan, as she's near there and can pick em up. From her's, I was planning on shipping some of it to Europe (where I am right now) and store the rest in my office in Calif. If anyone wants some of this, lemme know off-list. --f From classiccmp at crash.com Sun Mar 9 11:37:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers Message-ID: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com> Dave Wilson writes: . > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These > are much more accessible for research and the interest does not > conflict with those of other people. I think they're interesting, and have considered picking some up when I've seen them. Of course I've only seen them on eBay, and living near Boston I guess my only local source might conceivably be the DEC fab out in (I think) Hudson that got sold to Intel when Palmer gutted the company. Oops, didn't mean to start that thread again! ;^) > Are there other interested people out there? If this site is not > the best for this sort of discussion can you recommend a better > one? I haven't run across anyone systematically collecting wafers. The main question I'd have is, where's the supply? If there's not a large supply of available wafers, how many collectors can there be? Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas are using them as wall decorations or something... From bkotaska at earthlink.net Sun Mar 9 12:18:00 2003 From: bkotaska at earthlink.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: New To List and PDP8 Question References: <200303090049.SAA13917@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <000d01c2e666$8a726280$0200a8c0@ath700> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: Re: New To List and PDP8 Question > > I usually just buy the core stacks from DEC resellers. You pay a bit > more, but you generally get something that has been cared for and > works. > The resellers I have contacted have no more of these. > > Are you saying you have a case/power supply and omnibus? Or are you > trying to cobble something together without case/ps? > Cobble together is a very good way to describe what I am trying to do. I wish I had a case/power supply but don't and can't believe what systems are fetching on eBay. I guess I just have a burning desire to see one actually work (I love blinkenlights!) > One of the main problems I had with my first 8/E, was that most of the front > panel bulbs were burned out. Probably because once a few burn out, the voltage > rises on the others causing them to burn out faster. > My panel has bulbs and I plan to gently apply the supply to these for the first time until I see what it takes to turn them on. Bill From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Mar 9 12:24:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers References: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <004801c2e669$0beaffa0$0100000a@milkyway> Steve Jones wrote: > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > are using them as wall decorations or something... The ultimate trophy: Design an IC, make it work on first silicon. Take one of the first wafers and get it sealed or laminated (or whatever). Frame it on the wall, with a metal plate underneath: "This die contains [n] [suchandsuch] devices. The original production run worked flawlessly on first silicon. Design team: [whoever]". My sole aim in life is to take part in the design of a microprocessor, have it run on first silicon and have an entire silicon wafer full of the chips on the wall at home :-) If only VLSI design was as easy as designing a computer :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From fubar01 at cyberonic.com Sun Mar 9 12:31:00 2003 From: fubar01 at cyberonic.com (FUBARinSFO) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Apple ][ gear for pickup Message-ID: <01d701c2e669$bd531b10$6501a8c0@ti5vg> Hi folks: I've got to move out of my storage space in Oakland, CA this month. I've been saving my Apple ][ gear and software for years. I'd like to find a home for it -- it's like a train set with all the accessories. This is killing me already just posting this message. If you have an interest, please let me know ASAP. E-mail or call me at 415-956-2413. -- Roy Zider Short list of major items: Apple ][ (original) with ROM upgrade to ][+ Videx keyboard enhancements (with function key strip) Reset switch (as I recall), other unidentified case switch External case fan Language card (bumping memory from 48KB to 64KB) Microsoft SoftCard (CP/M card) AppliCard (CP/M card) Custom hard carrying case for system unit, drives. Two floppy drives SuperSerial card Axlon Ramdisk 320KB (solid state disk drive) Davong 10MB external hard drive (nice breadbox enclosure) Sweet-P plotter (serial interface) Thermal printer (maybe), paper. Boxes of software (Apple and CP/M) incl WordStar Apple ][ Technical Reference Manuals Apple ][ manuals (may have some water damage) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 9 12:41:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers References: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com> <004801c2e669$0beaffa0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E6B896B.8050607@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > The ultimate trophy: Design an IC, make it work on first silicon. Take one > of the first wafers and get it sealed or laminated (or whatever). Frame it > on the wall, with a metal plate underneath: "This die contains [n] > [suchandsuch] devices. The original production run worked flawlessly on > first silicon. Design team: [whoever]". > My sole aim in life is to take part in the design of a microprocessor, have > it run on first silicon and have an entire silicon wafer full of the chips > on the wall at home :-) > If only VLSI design was as easy as designing a computer :-) Well TTL is easy to design with. Feel free to take any of my TTL designs (when finished) and cast it into silicon. Note once I get my TTL computer design debuged and built ( the slow and $$$ parts ) I would like to do a VLSI design just to see how good or bad the design is compared to other real chips. Ben. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Mar 9 12:42:01 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Apple ][ gear for pickup In-Reply-To: <01d701c2e669$bd531b10$6501a8c0@ti5vg> Message-ID: <200303091838.MAA19992@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Yes, i'm looking for an original apple ][, if you're willing to ship it. Just let me know. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu University of Minnesota > Hi folks: > > I've got to move out of my storage space in Oakland, CA this month. I've > been saving my Apple ][ gear and software for years. I'd like to find a home > for it -- it's like a train set with all the accessories. This is killing me > already just posting this message. > > If you have an interest, please let me know ASAP. E-mail or call me at > 415-956-2413. > > -- Roy Zider > > Short list of major items: > > Apple ][ (original) with ROM upgrade to ][+ > Videx keyboard enhancements (with function key strip) > Reset switch (as I recall), other unidentified case switch > External case fan > Language card (bumping memory from 48KB to 64KB) > Microsoft SoftCard (CP/M card) > AppliCard (CP/M card) > > Custom hard carrying case for system unit, drives. > Two floppy drives > SuperSerial card > Axlon Ramdisk 320KB (solid state disk drive) > Davong 10MB external hard drive (nice breadbox enclosure) > Sweet-P plotter (serial interface) > Thermal printer (maybe), paper. > > Boxes of software (Apple and CP/M) incl WordStar > Apple ][ Technical Reference Manuals > Apple ][ manuals (may have some water damage) From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Mar 9 13:01:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers References: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com> <004801c2e669$0beaffa0$0100000a@milkyway> <3E6B896B.8050607@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <005201c2e66e$2057a100$0100000a@milkyway> ben franchuk wrote: > Well TTL is easy to design with. Feel free to take any of my TTL > designs (when finished) and cast it into silicon. Note once I get > my TTL computer design debuged and built ( the slow and $$$ parts ) > I would like to do a VLSI design just to see how good or bad > the design is compared to other real chips. If I had a few Xilinx CPLDs (the ones that can be programmed over a Jtag link) and a programming cable I would. Anyone got some spare XC9500 series devices? PIC16F628 MCUs are fun to play with, but designing my own CPU from scratch sounds like even more fun :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 9 13:32:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Progress Report In-Reply-To: <11668068877.20030309045546@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Mar 9, 3 04:55:46 am Message-ID: > Learned: If you plug in a G727A bus grant card backwards, the processor will > not halt. :-) Mainly because the grant chain is then open, so the M9302 terminator asserts SACK. This means that the 11/34 can't be halted from the panel (it gets tied up trying to remove the grant that's causing the SACK...) > > To do: My only existing cable that plugs into a DL11-W is for 20mA current > loop. I have a current loop VT52 that I haven't yet tested. I'll see if I > can do that tomorrow. After all, it would be nice to know if the register > printout is actually occurring. Almost all DL11-Ws have the RS232 driver/receiver chips on them, and if you've got one of the few that haven't. it's not hard to add them (1488 and 1489 IIRC). It's also not hard to make up the RS232 cable. I've done it many times. Let me know if you want to do this and need pinouts, etc. I don't know what test gear you have, but if you have a logic probe, then you could monitor the TX output of the UART (I assume you have the printset). It should blip low (actually a fairly complex pulse train if you have a logic analyser) when it's doing the register printout. That would at least tell you if the unit was working at all. -tony From tosteve at yahoo.com Sun Mar 9 14:47:00 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <20030309204403.25888.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall decorations! At least I am... From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Mar 9 15:50:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers References: <20030309204403.25888.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008701c2e685$b7948d00$0100000a@milkyway> steven wrote: > It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, > Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall > decorations! Hmm... I must remember to try and find a silicon wafer on Ebay... Shame there never seem to be any on Ebay UK... Let's see... If I put the wafer under a microscope and get some photos, I should be able to ID the chip. Then put it in a picture frame complete with label... Hmm... I'd love to track down one of the East German wafers that were mentioned on The Silicon Zoo (www.micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures) - they had some that they extracted a picture of a fox from. With a decent scope and a half-decent digicam (either my Oly or one of the Sony Mavica cameras I have access to) I should be able to get some pretty decent pictures. Picture this - a wafer with all the silicon "doodles" or "creatures" printed off underneath, complete with a "This die contains..." label... Hmm... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 9 16:27:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com>; from classiccmp@crash.com on Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 09:38:18 %z References: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <20030309145932.C1336@Erwin> > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > are using them as wall decorations or something... I think the only wafer's I've seen out in the wild are some wafers from Tektronix. Back in the 70's when I was in school someone from Tektronix visited us, and everyone got a wafer in a little plastic wafer holder. I know I've still got mine, I'm just not sure where it's at, it's all of about 2 1/2". Zane From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Mar 9 16:41:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <20030309204403.25888.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030309204403.25888.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E6BC37F.2080402@charter.net> steven wrote: >It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, >Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall >decorations! > >At least I am... > > > Me too. There's a ton of them floating around from the old Mostek fab and TI. James -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From shirsch at adelphia.net Sun Mar 9 17:38:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <3E6BC37F.2080402@charter.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, James Rice wrote: > steven wrote: > > >It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, > >Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall > >decorations! > > > > > Me too. There's a ton of them floating around from the old Mostek fab > and TI. In real life, I work for a company which fabs semiconductors. Removing wafers, even defective ones, from the premises without authorization is a swift and sure way to end ones career. Steve From zmerch at 30below.com Sun Mar 9 18:39:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: References: <3E6BC37F.2080402@charter.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030309192925.02811d20@mail.30below.com> At 18:33 03/09/2003 -0500, Steven N. Hirsch wrote: >On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, James Rice wrote: > > > steven wrote: > > > > >It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, > > >Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall > > >decorations! > > > > > > > > Me too. There's a ton of them floating around from the old Mostek fab > > and TI. > >In real life, I work for a company which fabs semiconductors. Removing >wafers, even defective ones, from the premises without authorization is >a swift and sure way to end ones career. On a slightly different take... How would one get permission to remove a few defective wafers solely for the sake of collectibility? Not many fabs up here in northern Michigan -- on the Canadian border... ;-) Is ePay my only hope of acquiring one??? Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Mar 9 18:46:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030307151315.00b6e6a0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310003934.00b599a8@slave> At 22:43 07/03/2003, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > > Sent: 07 March 2003 15:17 > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > > Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for > > the ICL OPD > > and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? > >I've got a spare but I don't think it's very well if you consider the state >of the motherboard: > >http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG Ouch: Was someone trying out a fancy new laser cutting tool, perchance? >The telephony module has a bit of masking tape on it containing the words >'faulty' so I guess that gives the game away somewhat :) Hmmm, quite... Having said that, maybe the telephony is OK, but the main beastie is shot. I'd be quite happy to test the telephony module in my (otherwise fine) OPD... > > Willing to pay postage from wherever, and maybe 75p & a packet of rolos > > (aka comp.sys.sinclair standard purchase price) as well. > >Hasn't it been upped to 85p and a packet of rolos to take inflation into >account? (inflated rolos? Mmm :) Not according to pictures of their last meet in London, but maybe no-one told them yet :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 9 18:53:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers References: Message-ID: <003101c2e69e$f730ffc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, >> Oregon, and Texas... Silicon Valley is the obvious choice for an outlet of these. Anyone who is a regular customer of "The Foothill" should speak up on list. I patronized them, a long time back, for just over two years... got some wafers, and, some large chunks of the raw Silicon ingots too. MIT flea will have wafers too, but at about 1/3 the frequency. John A. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Mar 9 18:55:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <3E69CB1A.3010909@gifford.co.uk> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310004141.01b79d88@slave> At 10:51 08/03/2003, you wrote: >Witchy wrote: >>>Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for >>>the ICL OPD >>>and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? > >I have one, but not a spare! :-( > >It's in an ICL One Per Desk, and of course is capable of pulse-dialling >only. Have you considered repairing the one you've got? Possibly, but I've absolutely no idea where to start... I'm guessing that the fault is somewhere in the telephone side, as the computer side works just fine. Also, it's capable of taking incoming calls (shame CLID didn't exist when the OPD was around), and if something else dials, it can latch into outgoing calls without any problems. IIRC, the pulse dial side dies at the same time as the tone dial. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Mar 9 18:56:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <0f4501c2e61e$15b44be0$0101a8c0@athlon> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030307151315.00b6e6a0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310004432.01ba13d8@slave> At 09:27 09/03/2003, Dave Brown wrote: >Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know >what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an >EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? I'm not really sure. It's entirely possible that there's very little to no difference between the modules, but the UK versions would have had to pass the extraordinarily strict BABT approval process - which was very expensive, and essential if you wanted your kit to be "BABT approved" and therefore legal to use on the UK 'phone system. Also, there was some fairly hefty licencing restrictions, e.g. in the front of the OPD manual it states the functions it's been licenced for. >I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as >partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were >called 'computerphones' down here. I'd be willing to try an NZ module, if it's got standard BT-like connector jacks on the back of it (same type as used by Sinclair on the QL - did he get a job-lot of sockets to go with the OPD plugs, I wonder?). I know bugger all about the NZ 'phone system, but as my NZ cousin is currently over here, I'll ask him tomorrow. > About the only useful function they had >was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. Definitely; the 3-alphanumeric "short code" is also a staggeringly useful thing. In fact, I've decided to use the OPD as my main telephone, if I can get a reliable telephony module for it. > They were just a year >or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs >and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. Much like the QL, really. Also, one shouldn't underestimate the marketing clout IBM had when their early PC's were coming out; really, did anyone stand a chance against them? -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Mar 9 19:04:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: References: <0f4501c2e61e$15b44be0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310004939.01b98e30@slave> At 14:18 09/03/2003, you wrote: >On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Dave Brown wrote: > > > Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know > > what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an > > EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? > > I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as > > partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were > > called 'computerphones' down here. About the only useful function they had > > was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. They were just a year > > or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs > > and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. > >Are these actual computers or just dumb terminals with a telephone >built-in? Your question is already answered, but what the heck... The ICL OPD (One-Per-Desk) and Merlin Tonto (identical machines internally) were a derivative of the Sinclair QL, featuring the addition of a telephone handset, better keyboard, slightly improved microdrives (sufficiently improved that they are, apparently, incompatible with QL mdvs; something I've not checked yet), and a much bigger ROM. That ROM contains a telephone directory, and a few other utilities to boot. Add-on ROMs included messaging (I'm unsure as to what that is yet, although mine has it), Psion Xchange (Quill word processor, Easel graphics - well, graphs, Archive database and Abacus spreadsheet). Xchange also featured on the CST Thor[1], and was also ported to the PC, IIRC. The QL suffered along with the original separate packages until its demise. My OPD also has a 3rd-party addon disk interface (which plugs into the ROM pack), which is rather nifty, and a lot more reliable (and faster) than microdrives. The machine itself, however, is quite painfully slow. I'm not entirely sure what they did to it to make it that slow; the QL seems to trot along much more quickly. Maybe ICL just didn't write decent software... [1] BTW, does anyone have a CST Thor (especially if you're willing to part with it). Any make/model considered, working or not. I'll even pay cash[2] for it. I'd /love/ to get my hands on one! [2] What's more, I'll even pay more than 75p[3] & a packet of Rolos! [3] or 85p, counting inflation. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Mar 9 19:04:15 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <3E6B5797.5070705@gifford.co.uk> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310005516.00b56998@slave> At 15:02 09/03/2003, John Honniball wrote: The application software in >ROM is all communication-centred, with things like dialling >directories and (I think) a terminal emulator. Yep, a loadable telephone directory (so you could have different ones on different MDVs), two terminal types (a Prestel & "glass teletype") which would operate over the built-in modem - capable of a whopping 1200bps or 600bps half-duplex, and 300bps full duplex; also capable of a 75bps "back channel" at 1200/600 speeds. >Due to UK telecom regulations at the time of release, it wasn't >able to act as a telephone answering machine, though. That was >a function that only British Telecom were allowed to provide. It does have a really nasty voice synthesizer built into it, though, so it will take a call unattended, and play the pre-recorded messages. It lacks the ability to say things like "Good morning" though... I think it's also limited to a single auto-answer setting, which can be set to automatically come on between certain times, and (possibly) overridden. I've yet to experiment with that side of it. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Mar 9 19:36:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA Message-ID: <200303100133.UAA4078105@shell.TheWorld.com> Fred wrote: >>On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> Being in Ohio, pickup is not an option, but if any list members who >> _do_ show up to collect them in person are willing to ship Ohio, please >> write me off-list and let's make arrangements. >Ethen (and everyone else who is interested), >I am securing the beasties, with the help from Megan, as she's >near there and can pick em up. From her's, I was planning on >shipping some of it to Europe (where I am right now) and store >the rest in my office in Calif. If anyone wants some of this, >lemme know off-list. Fred - I've asked him about 2 of the 200/MCs and 6 of the 300s. I have yet to hear back from him. Although I'm close to cambridge, I didn't know how many you wanted me to try for. I'm not sure my car or storage place (or my partner) is prepared to handle a great deal of them. I'll do what I can... Megan From aek at spies.com Sun Mar 9 20:23:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? Message-ID: <200303100219.h2A2JrRE020244@spies.com> > I looked around at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/ and found most of the > hardware docs I would want for my 2113E and 2117F, but didn't really see any > hardware reference docs for a 2100A CPU. The maint manuals are up now under hp/21xx From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 9 20:34:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: MITS Altair 8800a for sale on eBay In-Reply-To: <003901c2e65a$a0e989a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Heinz Wolter wrote: > Ah, the Royal We- Sellams speaks for us all. Speaking of lack of shame... > how about all your calls for equipment and documentation- > for your "paying customers". That is for a commercial venture, > and not a personal, hobbyist sale, as this one is. Heinz, Anyone who's ever responded to my bounty requests and successfully supplied me with what I was looking for has always been paid a generous share of what I earn in the process. I am making it possible for folks to put this hobby to work for them. However, since you object to this revenue sharing scheme, I'll be sure to exclude you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Mar 9 20:47:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: DECserver 200 hack... Message-ID: <021b01c2e6af$0ddb3410$7d00a8c0@george> Found this a few minutes ago. Kinda neat... http://www.vaxman.de/projects/midi/midi200.html Bob From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sun Mar 9 21:23:01 2003 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: OT: How to set up Eudora properly :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030310141941.02894698@mail.vsm.com.au> At 10:26 AM 6/03/2003 -0500, chris wrote: > >When I read messages using Eudora 4.3.2 (paid mode) I get to see lots of > >headers I can do without. For example a typical message starts: > >You can try the hack at the following web site. Its supposed to fix this >problem with Eudora v3. But the problem appears to be the same issue you >are seeing (emails from the Mailman list server show extra headers in the >email body). > > Fixed it! Thanks. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Mar 9 21:29:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: "John Allain"'s message of "Sun, 9 Mar 2003 19:49:53 -0500" References: <003101c2e69e$f730ffc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200303100317.h2A3Hw08055325@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "John Allain" wrote: > Silicon Valley is the obvious choice for an outlet of these. > Anyone who is a regular customer of "The Foothill" should > speak up on list. I patronized them, a long time back, for > just over two years... got some wafers, and, some large > chunks of the raw Silicon ingots too. Yes, I saw some wafers there yesterday. Y'all should have spoken up sooner and I might have tried to pick some up for you. Seriously, educate me/us. What's interesting, what would need to be done to care for it through shipping, and what's it worth to you (and I appreciate that the answer to this may not be financial in nature, and it need not be so on my side either!)? More seriously, inexpensive items (say US$1 and under) that don't require a lot of effort on my part can pass easily from my hands to someone else's, and I'm happy to help, especially if it'll help get an interesting story out there to for other folks to enjoy and learn from. As the cost in money, time, and effort goes up, either my interest wanes or I start wanting some return. -Frank McConnell From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Mar 9 22:04:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <200303091734.h29HYAOG030664@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > Dave Wilson writes: > > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These > > are much more accessible for research and the interest does not > > conflict with those of other people. > > [...] > > I haven't run across anyone systematically collecting wafers. The > main question I'd have is, where's the supply? If there's not a > large supply of available wafers, how many collectors can there be? > > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > are using them as wall decorations or something... The San Jose Tech Museum's gift shop has them for sale at prices that won't break you too badly. IIRC, it was somewhere in the $10-$30 range, depending on their sizes. It looks like they're available for sale online: Of course, you can't get to pick and choose them like you would if you were actually there. When I last visited, they had a variety of wafers available. -brian. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Mar 9 22:29:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers References: Message-ID: <004f01c2e6bd$368071b0$340cdd40@oemcomputer> Keep checking eBay for them as I picked up several there for good prices. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers > On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > > Dave Wilson writes: > > > > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These > > > are much more accessible for research and the interest does not > > > conflict with those of other people. > > > > [...] > > > > I haven't run across anyone systematically collecting wafers. The > > main question I'd have is, where's the supply? If there's not a > > large supply of available wafers, how many collectors can there be? > > > > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > > are using them as wall decorations or something... > > The San Jose Tech Museum's gift shop has them for sale at prices that > won't break you too badly. IIRC, it was somewhere in the $10-$30 range, > depending on their sizes. It looks like they're available for sale > online: > > Of course, you can't get to pick and choose them like you would if you > were actually there. When I last visited, they had a variety of wafers > available. > > -brian. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 9 22:59:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Progress Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <041309720.20030309225603@subatomix.com> On Sunday, March 9, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> To do: My only existing cable that plugs into a DL11-W is for 20mA >> current loop. I have a current loop VT52 that I haven't yet tested. I'll >> see if I can do that tomorrow. After all, it would be nice to know if the >> register printout is actually occurring. > > It's also not hard to make up the RS232 cable. I've done it many times. > Let me know if you want to do this and need pinouts, etc. Yes, very easy. But I do have a lonely current loop VT52 that (if it works) desparately wants *something* to send it some bits and bytes to display. How can I turn down a request like that? :-) Maybe I'll build a RS-232 cable for the short term so I can test the machine with a known good console terminal. > I don't know what test gear you have Sadly, all I have is one digital multimeter. It's an eBay cheapo special -- not the bottom of the barrel, but darn close to it. Oh, I also have a Heathkit digital IC tester model IT-7400 that I swiped from a professor's trash pile back in my college days (i.e. 4 months ago). It works. I want to get an oscilloscope soon. I've got other things I need to spend my salary on at the moment, but that might not be too much of a hindrance. My current plan is to put a relatively large portion of my collection (which isn't that large) up for trade and hope for a suitable scope in return. Or maybe I'll sell some of it on eBay and use those proceeds to buy a scope on eBay. About the best thing I have is a MINC-11 (when it rains it pours, eh?), but there are also various PDP-11 parts, two HP-85s, a couple of TRS-80s (M3 and M4), some IBM 5150 PCs, an AT&T 3B2/EXP, a bunch of Sun3s, and some other stuff I can't remember. Sometime soon I'll make a more detailed inventory, take pictures, and formally announce it. I figure all of that stuff combined should (at least) net me one good scope or logic analyzer. -- Jeffrey Sharp From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Mar 9 23:25:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? Message-ID: Cool. Thanks a lot. I just downloaded these and that should be a big help in checking out the 2100A and hopefully getting it running. > > I looked around at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/ and found most of >the > > hardware docs I would want for my 2113E and 2117F, but didn't really see >any > > hardware reference docs for a 2100A CPU. > >The maint manuals are up now under hp/21xx _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vance at neurotica.com Sun Mar 9 23:35:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: New bounties ($$$) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Interlnk.exe > > and > > Intersvr.exe > > > > I don't remember exactly how to do it. > > > > One of the two programs goes into the config.sys of > > it's computer, and the other is run from a DOS prompt. > > Yup. Intersrv (sp?) runs from config.sys. > It's not too difficult, but I highly recommend a parallel link if both > computers have bidirectional ports. It's a ton faster. I'm pretty sure it's INTERLNK that runs in CONFIG.SYS and INTERSVR runs on command-line. Peace... Sridhar From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Mar 9 23:35:19 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO question In-Reply-To: <082401c2e53a$f46ec840$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Stuart Johnson > Sent: 08 March 2003 06:21 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Attn. Witchy -- Infoserver tape and disk access ISO > question > > Witchy, > > Thanks so much! Fred told me where to get them and I did. I'll be glad to > make a CDR for anyone for the cost of shipping, assuming I'm not > inundated, > for folks that don't want to download & make their own - or can't. No problem - linux is your friend for instant ISO-ing of CDs :) I don't mind doing backups for UK people either... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Mar 9 23:35:29 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 07 March 2003 22:53 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! > > As you've probably discovered by now, the top connectors on the MINC > modules are for user I/O. The DAC outputs (and other I/O lines) are > there, for example. So presumably this was a connector for the user's > experiment. Oh aye, definitely. It just would've been nice to know what it was plugged into in the first place, but there's no point asking the bloke I got it from 'cos he just received it from a friend and stuck it in his workshop where it sat ever since. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From rpb at rpb.com Sun Mar 9 23:36:22 2003 From: rpb at rpb.com (Burke, Richard P.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Using a PS/2 Mouse on the GRiD 1755 Keyboard Port Message-ID: <3E6A3642.2020105@rpb.com> Greetings everyone, Does anybody know how to use a PS/2 mouse on the keyboard port of a GRiD 1755/486 SLC Laptop? The manual says that the port will not support a PS/2 mouse, but I figure someone has developed a driver by now. Any clues? Thanks. Richard P. Burke Portland OR From stuart at robodreams.com Sun Mar 9 23:36:32 2003 From: stuart at robodreams.com (stu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto References: Message-ID: <026e01c2e5a3$20430bd0$3200000a@stusxpbox> Hi all, I have an OPD, believed working, without monitor, and has a variety of pods and the phone handset. All good condition and even manuals :) Free to OPD fanatic, prefer collect. (uk NW) Stu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: ; Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:43 PM Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > > Sent: 07 March 2003 15:17 > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > > Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for > > the ICL OPD > > and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? > > I've got a spare but I don't think it's very well if you consider the state > of the motherboard: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG > > The telephony module has a bit of masking tape on it containing the words > 'faulty' so I guess that gives the game away somewhat :) > > > Willing to pay postage from wherever, and maybe 75p & a packet of rolos > > (aka comp.sys.sinclair standard purchase price) as well. > > Hasn't it been upped to 85p and a packet of rolos to take inflation into > account? (inflated rolos? Mmm :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From root at parse.com Sun Mar 9 23:36:41 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 EX; Commodore 64 + 1541? floppy Message-ID: <200303082258.RAA23737@parse.com> Saw these at the local junkyard; any interest? Tandy 1000 EX Commodore 64 with 1541(?) 5.25" floppy drive Condition unknown. If there's anyone who's interested, please let me know and I'll be happy to pick them up for you. Let me know what your maximum price is (there was no price marked). + S/H (VISA/MC through my consulting company just to keep things simple). Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From j.r.engdahl at safeaccess.com Sun Mar 9 23:36:50 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Free Scanning Electron Microscope Message-ID: <01d701c2e5e5$bbf285a0$3800a8c0@arctura> Free scanning electron microscope to whoever wants to come haul it away. It was left by the previous occupant of my lab, and it's blocking the hallway. I want it out of there. There are four main pieces, plus some parts and manuals in boxes. I don't know anything about this, but I will describe it's appearance: - microscope unit - desk high box with precision stainless steel tower, shoulder high - ISI Robinson detector mounted on side - Perkin Elmer gizmo mounted up high - other probes and sample holders sticking out at odd angles - very rocket science - no other name plates visible without moving a lot of stuff - viewing station and analog controls console - name plate: ISI WB-6 - built-in CRT - lots of knobs and buttons - very mission control - Tracor Northern computer - floor standing console a little larger than an ASR-33 - two 5" floppies - card cage inside - Intel 8080 microprocessor - keyboard - no hard drive, don't think it ever had one - separate RGB CRT - a 2' box with lots of wires and tubes coming out of it (vacuum pump?) - a 3~4 gallon tank that looks like it bolts on the side of the tower - a small rack with instrumentation modules in it The date plate on the back of the viewing console says 1985. It was used by our semiconductor quality control department to look at the insides of integrated circuits. Rumor has it that there is a vacuum leak in this somewhere, it probably needs a new gasket. It is already uninstalled and ready to roll away. I found a web page with a picture of a similar unit. Our machine has an very similar viewing console, but we have more stuff mounted on the microscope itself. http://www.optics.arizona.edu/Milster/Labdescriptions/Misc.htm ***NOTE*** This thing has a radiation sign on it (X-rays). Transportation and use is regulated by the Ohio Dept. of Health, Division of Radiology. I understand you need to get a permit to move, own, or operate it. If you are really interested in this, you need to know how to get the required permits. If you are interested I can take some pictures and send them. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl j.r.engdahl@adelphia.net From apteconsulting at attglobal.net Sun Mar 9 23:36:59 2003 From: apteconsulting at attglobal.net (Gary P. Apte) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: Info on Dataspeed's products Message-ID: <3E6AF914.E5BCDE79@attglobal.net> Happened to find this thread while searching for old colleagues; thought I would send you some info. I worked as an R&D Engineer at Dataspeed from during 1983-85, and was the principal developer of the Modio software. I left when Lotus purchased Dataspeed, and sadly, my stock options became worthless. With regards to the thread (included below), we were using the sideband on the PBS FM stations. At the time I left, we were airing stock, commodities, and futures data during "market hours", and sports during off-hours. The service was by subscription, and there was a hash algorithm which used the unit's serial number and the subscriber account number to generate the flags which activated various services. If memory serves, the flags were "splattered" across the memory map, e.g. bits in different locations together formed the service byte for a service. Lost contact with the other engineers and staff. One engineer is installing Internet in churches in Korea; one of the co-founders owned a sports bar in Pacifica, CA. But all this is old info. I still do have a framed Quotrek on my office wall ! Pass on this info as you deem fit. Gary Apte It's my understanding (infamously unreliable) that Lotus Signal was descended from DataSpeed's Modio which was descended from DataSpeed's Quotrek which dates back as far as 1981. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:35 Subject: Re: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER > I would be really curious to know how this thing works (or worked if the > service is no longer available.) The disks I have are for the PC or AT > and are on 5 1/4" floppies (probably 360K). I'll copy them onto a 3 1/2" > disk and bring it with me at the end of the month. If you have a power > supply with yours, what is the polarity (if not AC) and voltage? > > Has anyone on the list actually used one of these things? > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > At 05:31 PM 1/29/03 -0800, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > >Mike, I have what I *think* is the same thing, and it is copyright 1986; > > >he was looking for pre 1984 or so. If you need copies of the software, > > >*assuming* the software I have is good, it won't be a problem. I can > > >bring it to TRW late this month. > > > > > >Anyone know what frequency this works on, and if the supporting > > >transmitter is still on the air? It indicated this was a subscription > > >service, and I would be most interested to know how they enforced that. > > > > > >Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > > > At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > > > > > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > > > > > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > > > > > functioning. User manual would be great. > > > > > > > > I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. > > > > > > > > Lotus FM Receiver > > > > Mine has three ports on the back, antenna via coax F connector, serial DB25 > > thing, and BNC (data out, could ethernet maybe?). > > > > What platform do you have software for, and sure. ;) That will give me a > > good excuse to get my bones out to TRW. > > > > I think this type of device used sidebands of commercial broadcast > > frequencies, but I haven't looked inside, or hooked up an antenna to see > > what happens. > > > > No real guess on the pay/data controls, could be software, could be serial > > number related activation key broadcast in middle of data etc. From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Mar 9 23:37:09 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:10 2005 Subject: vs3100m38 single user boot???. In-Reply-To: <021b01c2e6af$0ddb3410$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <001501c2e6b5$e8604ed0$6401a8c0@fred> Can I boot Netbsd1.5 or 4.3bsd into single user from the vs3100 bios? Whats the cmd? Boot dka100/1 Or set boot dka100 and then b/1? Why? I need to crack the root password of course. fred From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 9 23:48:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: DECservers (was: Free DecServer 200 & 300...) In-Reply-To: <200303100133.UAA4078105@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200303100133.UAA4078105@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3944253573.20030309234506@subatomix.com> Does anyone know of a site out there that could quickly give me an overview of what different models of DECservers are out there and what their features are? I could probably use a couple, but I'm having trouble trying to see the forest instead of the trees. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Mar 10 00:15:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: Hmm... Doesn't think this is a computer, eh? Wonder what it *is* then? It calculates, and provides a results of those calculations into some kind of output -- usually on paper. Actually, there's an even older, wooden computer that provided a visual output. What was it? (Is this OT? Both units compute, and are over 10 years old...) Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Damm! Now there's something that you don't see everyday! Joe At 04:45 PM 3/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be interested. > >ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 From anheier at owt.com Mon Mar 10 00:31:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Intel iSBC manuals available Message-ID: I had a lot of people interested in these manuals, but I still have them. They are iSBC 86/14 and iSBC 86/30 Single board computer hardware reference manual and iSBC 661 Chassis reference manual $7 each + shipping or they go the the recycler on Wednesday--I need the room! Thanks Norm From anheier at owt.com Mon Mar 10 00:31:16 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Iris Indigeo available Message-ID: I have an Silicon Graphics Iris Indigo available. It just the cpu box, no hard disk, keyboard, monitor or mouse. I do have the video cable. Uses MIPS 79R4400MC-75 processor. Neat purple cube computer. Best offer. Thanks Norm From nampcjr at yahoo.com Mon Mar 10 00:47:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Wanted "Agent USA" In-Reply-To: <011701c2e45a$edfb3c90$7a00a8c0@themillers> Message-ID: <20030310064410.21863.qmail@web20710.mail.yahoo.com> Ok, what better place to ask then a classic computing list....but I am in the need of reaquiring "Agent USA" for IBM. I used to own this as a kid, and would love to own it again. I have seen that someone remade it in VB6, and that, of course, just is not the same.....I would love to own the original again!! If you have it and would like to sell it I would buy it outright, or I would be willing to trade some PC or PCjr software, possibly PCjr hardware for it! Let me know! Brian From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Mar 10 01:11:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <026e01c2e5a3$20430bd0$3200000a@stusxpbox> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310070626.01b35cc0@slave> At 18:47 08/03/2003, you wrote: >Hi all, >I have an OPD, believed working, without monitor, and has a variety of pods >and the phone handset. All good condition and even manuals :) >Free to OPD fanatic, prefer collect. (uk NW) I would, of course, be interested... :) I'm in London at the moment, but could probably collect in a fortnight, depends where you are in the NW? Drop me a line off-list if you want to discuss. Cheers, Ade. Confirmed OPD addict :) From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Mar 10 02:17:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: HP1000 - Update Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310072826.01b31a10@slave> Well, good news & bad news from the weekend regarding the HP1000's. First, the good news: I've confirmed that both CPUs are in working order, and they both have 4 bootloader ROMs. Testing went little further than this, because: a) I couldn't make it read from the disk, either because the interconnect is wrong, or I'd got my MAC address wrong, or hadn't done something required by the bootloader ROM, or don't have a disk bootloader. I tried all four ROMs, but no visible life from the disk. 'course, not having a terminal to plug in didn't help... b) The bad news - both 'A' and 'B' machine cabinet PSUs failed (with a distinct smell of Magic White Smoke about them), causing the supply ELCB to trip. I'm unsure as to whether it's the fan, or the PSU which caused the problem (the fan sounded pretty bad). The individual internal components (CPU, mem extender, etc.) are all fine, so surgery will be simple. However, I suspect the cause is damp, so I'm not going to fix & power up again until summer and/or I get the paraffin heater working again. And now, the s/w which came with the machine. All of this is on 1600bpi tape: KEY: Format of tape in square brackets, where none, either unknown or I forgot to write it down p/n = part number R. = Rev. (Revision) - where not present, I forgot to write down ------------------------------------------------------------------- RTE-IVB GRANDFATHER FILES R.2140 p/n 92084-13528 RTE-IVB p/n 92068-13605 RTE-IVB RELOCATABLES [SAVER] p/n 92068-13605 *3 RTE-IVB RELOCATABLES R.2301 [SAVER] p/n 92068-13605 RTE-IVB ONLY R.2226 [WRITT] p/n 92068-13605 RTE-IVB ONLY R.2213 [WRITT] p/n 92068-13605 RTE-IVB ONLY p/n 92068-13605 RTE-IVB & SUBSYS Cust 1600 MAG 8010-0490655, p/n unknown RTE-6 [SAVER format] p/n 92084-13528 RTE-6 p/n 92084-13538 RTE-6 CUST 1600 MAG R.2540 [TF] p/n 24998-13546 RTE-6/VM MASTER R.2340 [SAVER] p/n 92084-13528 RTE-6/VM & SUBSYS p/n 24998-13546 RTE-6(VM?) UPDATE p/n 24998-13538 RTE-6/VM [PSAVE] TAPE 1 of 2 p/n 92064-13506 RTE-6/VM [PSAVE] TAPE 2 of 2 p/n 92064-13517 CUSTOMISED RTE [TF] {see note 1 below} p/n 24998-13630 CUSTOM RTE O/S & SUBSYS DS5.0 UPDATE p/n 24998-13546 CUSTOM RTE O/S & SUBSYS DS5.1 UPDATE p/n 24998-13546 CUSTOM RTE O/S & SUBSYS DS5.1 UPDATE p/n 24998-13551 CUSTOM RTE O/S & SUBSYS DS5.1 UPDATE [FC] p/n 24998-13553 DS/1000 [FMGR] p/n 91750-13502 DS/1000-IV p/n 91750-13502 *2 DS SW ON MT (?) p/n 91750-13502 RTE-IVB IMAGE R.2040 p/n 92069-13502 RTE-IVB IMAGE R.2213 p/n 92069-13502 IMAGE/1000 [SAVER] p/n 92069-13502 RTE-IVB IMAGE R.2213 p/n 92069-13502 IMAGE R.2326 [FC] p/n 92069-13502 GRAPHICS/1000 [FMGR] p/n 92841-13502 GRAPHICS/1000 II p/n 92841-13502 RTE PROFILE MONITOR [TF] p/n 92068-13605 RTE PROFILE MONITOR R.2026 p/n 92083-13502 RTE PROFILE MONITOR R.2226 p/n 92083-13502 DEBUG/1000 R.2401 [TF] p/n 92860-13502 SYMB DEBUG0 R.2326 [FC] p/n 92860-13502 DSDFRTRN 7X/1000 (apr.18 1984) p/n 92836-13502 FORTRAN77 R.2213 [FC] p/n 92836-13502 FORTRAN77 R.2213 [FCOPY] p/n 92836-13502 FORTRAN77 R.2326 [FC] p/n 92836-13502 PASCAL/1000 R.2015 OPT 051 p/n 92832-13502 DGL DEMO#1 p/n 24998-13506 DGL MAG TAPE p/n 92841-13502 HP 935316 DUAL DISK DRIVER [SAVER] Rev.2215 p/n unknown TDC Driver p/n unknown OLD GRAPHICS -> NEW GRAPHICS (AUP) Conversion p/n unknown ------------------------------------------------------------------- Note 1: The "CUSTOMISED RTE" tape also has the following on it: Order No. : 80UB013758200000 System Handle: 8000319N A.B5.27 ------------------------------------------------------------------- As for the disk packs, these mostly have handwritten labels, some faded to obscurity. Three which looked interesting I wrote down: BASELINE MASTER SYSGEN MASTER ESS BASELINE MASTER BACKUP Also, 3 with just HP numbers: HP 2213F00180 HP 2213F01585 HP 1940F00102 Any info on what the latter three might be would be most useful. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Mon Mar 10 04:01:00 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > > >I wonder how many are out there in private (non government) hands. > > > I doubt there are any still in governement hands except > perhaps in museums. But stop and think for a moment, every > unit of the German army, air force, navy and even railroad > police had one during WW II. They must have made tens if not > handreds of thousands of these! And that's not including the > ones that were probably used by Germany's allies. Absoulutely. Now, a /real/ rarity would be a 4-rotor U-boat cipher; of which probably only hundreds were made, and most will be quitely rusting & rotting at the bottom of the ocean... Cheers, Ade. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Mar 10 05:27:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: vs3100m38 single user boot???. References: <001501c2e6b5$e8604ed0$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <002601c2e6f7$ce877690$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred deBros" To: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: vs3100m38 single user boot???. > Can I boot Netbsd1.5 or 4.3bsd into single user from the vs3100 bios? > Whats the cmd? Boot dka100/1 > Or set boot dka100 and then b/1? > > Why? > > I need to crack the root password of course. What is the existing OS? For OpenVMS, the OpenVMS FAQ has the procedure at http://www.google.com/search?q=OpenVMS+FAQ, for NetBSD try http://www.google.com/search?q=VAX+"single user". No experience with 4.3, but I might try http://www.google.com/search?q=4.3+BSD+"single user" if I was feeling dangerous. > > fred Bob From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Mar 10 06:37:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: vs3100m38 single user boot???. In-Reply-To: <001501c2e6b5$e8604ed0$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Fred deBros wrote: > Can I boot Netbsd1.5 or 4.3bsd into single user from the vs3100 bios? > Whats the cmd? Boot dka100/1 > Or set boot dka100 and then b/1? >>> boot/1 dka100 or >>> boot dka100 -s on some systems.. the "-s" will be passed to the boot loader itself, and, if it supports that, it will interpret it as "single mode mode". The full command is: >>> boot [/bootflags] device: [program] [options] The bootflags are VMB-standard flags (for VMS), which may or may not be supported by the OS. They are passed to the OS through CPU register R5. The "program" argument can be used to tell the boot loader to load something other than the standard kernel - in case you just built a non-working kernel, for example ;-) (mental note: does this ever happen? _YES_!) Cheers, Fred From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 10 07:47:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Progress Report In-Reply-To: <041309720.20030309225603@subatomix.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030310073955.019f4c88@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Jeffrey, You may recall that I am interested in your 11/70 BA11-F, et al. If you still have it and are interested, I have an HP 1630G logic analyzer that I would be willing to trade you for the BA11-F. I can post some pics and the operator's manual if you would like... --tom At 10:56 PM 3/9/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I want to get an oscilloscope soon. I've got other things I need to spend my >salary on at the moment, but that might not be too much of a hindrance. My >current plan is to put a relatively large portion of my collection (which >isn't that large) up for trade and hope for a suitable scope in return. Or >maybe I'll sell some of it on eBay and use those proceeds to buy a scope on >eBay. About the best thing I have is a MINC-11 (when it rains it pours, >eh?), but there are also various PDP-11 parts, two HP-85s, a couple of >TRS-80s (M3 and M4), some IBM 5150 PCs, an AT&T 3B2/EXP, a bunch of Sun3s, >and some other stuff I can't remember. Sometime soon I'll make a more >detailed inventory, take pictures, and formally announce it. I figure all of >that stuff combined should (at least) net me one good scope or logic >analyzer. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 10 08:42:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:03:35 GMT." Message-ID: <200303101145.LAA18672@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Adrian Vickers" said: > > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > > > > >I wonder how many are out there in private (non government) hands. > > > > > I doubt there are any still in governement hands except > > perhaps in museums. But stop and think for a moment, every > > unit of the German army, air force, navy and even railroad > > police had one during WW II. They must have made tens if not > > handreds of thousands of these! And that's not including the > > ones that were probably used by Germany's allies. > > Absoulutely. Now, a /real/ rarity would be a 4-rotor U-boat cipher; of > which probably only hundreds were made, and most will be quitely rusting > & rotting at the bottom of the ocean... We have a salvaged U-Boat here on Merseyside, not far from Adrian's famous shed. I wonder what happened to the Enigma machine?? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Mar 10 08:58:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Interlnk (was RE: New bounties ($$$) ) Message-ID: Correct. On the _client_ computer, add the following line to CONFIG.SYS: device=c:\dos\interlnk.exe (if interlnkexe is in C:\Dos, of course!). On the _server_ computer, at the command prompt, type: intersvr Intersvr can also pump the needed files to a second computer using: intersvr /rcopy -----Original Message----- From: vance@neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 2:56 AM To: Doc Shipley Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: New bounties ($$$) I'm pretty sure it's INTERLNK that runs in CONFIG.SYS and INTERSVR runs on command-line. Peace... Sridhar From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 10 09:09:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Interlnk (was RE: New bounties ($$$) ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E6CA9CC.5090505@internet1.net> Feldman, Robert wrote: > Correct. > > On the _client_ computer, add the following line to CONFIG.SYS: > > device=c:\dos\interlnk.exe > > (if interlnkexe is in C:\Dos, of course!). > > On the _server_ computer, at the command prompt, type: > > intersvr > > Intersvr can also pump the needed files to a second computer using: > > intersvr /rcopy Doesn't that have a restriction of being only with a serial connection? I don't think that works with parallel. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Mon Mar 10 09:10:00 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: > Hi, > > "Adrian Vickers" said: > > > > Absoulutely. Now, a /real/ rarity would be a 4-rotor U-boat > cipher; of > > which probably only hundreds were made, and most will be > quitely rusting > > & rotting at the bottom of the ocean... > > We have a salvaged U-Boat here on Merseyside, not far from Adrian's > famous shed. I wonder what happened to the Enigma machine?? Good point; although as that Boat was sunk, I suspect the enigma was destroyed either by the crew, or by spending 40-odd years under water. I've heard that they're going to preserve it as-is (i.e. in it's rusty wrecked state), which I think is a shame; it'd be interesting to see it restored IMHO. One of these days, I really must get around to visiting the historic ships... From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Mar 10 09:33:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? Message-ID: I'm not sure you understood my question. I was asking about pin 4 the power transformer pinout, not the battery. Using the information you provided, though, I opened up my SLT over the weekend and pulled out the power supply unit. Looks like the middle two of the battery contacts are for charging, as the one on the left is ground and the one on the right goes directly to a small fuse. Pinouts on the power supply connector are harder to trace (especially with the limited equipment I have). So, anyway, I put 12V into the contacts in the unit where the battery fits and turned on the switch. The keyboard LEDs went on for a second, then off -- no beeps or other sounds. A little more investigation revealed that the LED Indicator board is missing. It fits in the memory shield and plugs in at the front of the motherboard. From what little it says and shows in the Maintenance and Service Guide pdf (amazingly available on the Compaq web site!), the LED Indicator board just has LEDs, so it shouldn't be too hard to duplicate or work around, but it would be nice to get a scan of both sides of that board (hint hint :) ). Bob -----Original Message----- From: JP Hindin [mailto:jplist@kiwigeek.com] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:11 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Thanks, this is a good start. > Question, though: on the brick, is pin 4 positive or negative? They're all +vDC. I charged the batt up, and now 2 & 3 show 12.9v, and 4 shows 13.9v, so there's some tolerances for you. (Nothing you didn't expect, I'm sure) JP > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: JP Hindin [mailto:jplist@kiwigeek.com] > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:19 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Power pinouts for Compaq SLT286? > > > > The battery, when looking at it towards the connectors: > ---------------------- > | XXXX | > |______________________| > Where X's are contacts, from left to right: > GND, 12.5v, 12.5v, 13.3v > (Batt is Compaq part #130538, Model 2682) > > > I don't know enough about electronics to understand how the power supply > works. The unit has two lights, which I'm guessing are 'On' and 'Charging > Battery'. When the unit is first turned on, the 'On' pulses. > There are Eight pins, not 6: (Piss poor ASCII arrangement on left, my pin > numbering on right) > > X X X 1 2 3 > X X X 4 5 6 > _ _ 7 8 > > If you cross 3 & 6, the 'On' light stays on, presumably the trigger to > tell it to send voltage. > With one probe between the 3&6, and another on 4, I get 18vDC. > > > JP Hindin From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Mar 10 09:38:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Interlnk (was RE: New bounties ($$$) ) Message-ID: No, should work with either serial (3-wire or 7-wire null-modem cable) or parallel (bidirectional cable). However, for intersvr /rcopy, if you are using any port other than COM1 on the _destination_ computer, make sure you are _not_ running SHARE on that computer. -----Original Message----- From: Chad Fernandez [mailto:fernande@internet1.net] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Interlnk (was RE: New bounties ($$$) ) Feldman, Robert wrote: > Correct. > > On the _client_ computer, add the following line to CONFIG.SYS: > > device=c:\dos\interlnk.exe > > (if interlnkexe is in C:\Dos, of course!). > > On the _server_ computer, at the command prompt, type: > > intersvr > > Intersvr can also pump the needed files to a second computer using: > > intersvr /rcopy Doesn't that have a restriction of being only with a serial connection? I don't think that works with parallel. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Mon Mar 10 11:09:01 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk] > > It's in an ICL One Per Desk, and of course is capable of > pulse-dialling > only. Have you considered repairing the one you've got? > Actually, it's just occurred to me; it should be capable of tone or pulse dialling - it's set on the dipswitch bank on top of the module. Unless your module is rather older than mine? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 10 11:13:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: <200303101709.JAA06214@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe >At 11:00 PM 3/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >>>Damm! Now there's something that you don't see everyday! >> >>I wonder how many are out there in private (non government) hands. >> >>I have seen one, in the D-Day Museum in New Orleans. > > I doubt there are any still in governement hands except perhaps in museums. But stop and think for a moment, every unit of the German army, air force, navy and even railroad police had one during WW II. They must have made tens if not handreds of thousands of these! And that's not including the ones that were probably used by Germany's allies. Hi It is most likely that this is one of the ones that was made after the war. Quite a few of these were made for other governments after the war. You'll note that he never said that this one was used during the war or mentioned a manufacture date. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 10 11:16:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: <200303101712.JAA06218@clulw009.amd.com> Hi There is a web site that you can locate through the Bletchie (sp?) Park site that has an on line enigma machine. The entire thing can be emulated quickly on most any uP. Dwight >From: "Ron Hudson" > >On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 10:06 PM, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Well it seems I am from france or somthing... >> >> EBAY wont let me see the auction. > >Even stranger--- I could see this item from a PC laptop >at home, but not from my Safari running Mac iBook. > > Waaaa! > >Anyway there are emulations of this beast for windows. > > >> >> >> On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 09:38 PM, Joe wrote: >> >>> At 04:48 PM 3/7/03 -0700, ben franchuk wrote: >>>> Andrew Strouse wrote: >>>>> I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be >>>>> interested. >>>>> >>>>> ENIGMA Cypher machine army model: >>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185 >>>> >>>> >>>> But you need a PAIR of them :) >>> >>> Not if you send messages to yourself! >>> >>> Joe :-) From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 10 11:18:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: New bounties ($$$) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I'm pretty sure it's INTERLNK that runs in CONFIG.SYS and INTERSVR runs on > command-line. You are correct. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Mar 10 11:28:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: References: <0f4501c2e61e$15b44be0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <3E6CD8EF.6408.917A715E@localhost> > > Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know > > what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an > > EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? > > I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as > > partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were > > called 'computerphones' down here. About the only useful function they had > > was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. They were just a year > > or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs > > and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. > Are these actual computers or just dumb terminals with a telephone > built-in? > I have a Northern Telecom unit like this. It's a smaller terminal with a > phone handset and keypad on the base. A keyboard tray pulls out of the > bottom of the base. Aye Sallam, didn't I tell you about this little beasts ? They are full figured Sinclair QLs with integrated analogue phones. AFAIK a bunch of phonerelated applications where provided in ROM. One may name it as the first PDA ... you know, like the TREO, Or PocketPC Phone edition ... just a few more pounds (even pricewise:) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 10 11:28:24 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hmm... Doesn't think this is a computer, eh? Wonder what it *is* then? It > calculates, and provides a results of those calculations into some kind of > output -- usually on paper. Calling an Enigma a computer is really stretching the definition. They are incredibly simple machines - the internal circuitry consists of not much more than a battery, wires, the wheels (fancy rotary switches, basically), a plugboard, and a bunch of lightbulbs. For a previous question - the number of Enigmas in private hands is well over 100 units. They are really not all that rare, but the price ($20,000 is not unusual) is high because of the extreme demand. It is the U.S. crypto gear that is truely rare... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tim.myers at sunplan.com Mon Mar 10 11:28:38 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <200303101712.JAA06218@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: The java emulator can be found here http://www.ugrad.cs.jhu.edu/~russell/classes/enigma/ Or from links from the Bletchley Park website, http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk Tim. > Hi > There is a web site that you can locate through > the Bletchie (sp?) Park site that has an on line > enigma machine. The entire thing can be emulated > quickly on most any uP. > Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 10 11:31:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 was: New To List and PDP8 Question Message-ID: <200303101726.JAA06242@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bill Kotaska" > >Hello, >I am new to this group but have been reading the posts occasionally before >finally joining. The site comes up alot when searching for info on old >machines. I am interested in any type of old computer especially the single >board trainer types from the early days of the microprocessors. I have built >my own trainer based on the Intel 4004/4040 and have started to put a web site >together with pics and info. It is in the early stages though - >http://home.earthlink.net/~bkotaska/mcs4_micro.htm . > ---snip--- Hi I have a SIM4 but mine doesn't have the nice LCD read out that yours has. I wrote an assembler as well. Mine is single pass but I can still do forward references by having the lables self resolve them selves as their location is assigned. I also have a simualtor that I wrote. It is built around the SIM4 board. Most 4004 systems have a lot of hardware dependencies since not all used things like the 4002's for RAMs or the normal I/O methods. Dwight From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Mar 10 11:43:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E6CDC77.23625.91883C6F@localhost> > > Hmm... Doesn't think this is a computer, eh? Wonder what it *is* then? It > > calculates, and provides a results of those calculations into some kind of > > output -- usually on paper. > Calling an Enigma a computer is really stretching the definition. They > are incredibly simple machines - the internal circuitry consists of not > much more than a battery, wires, the wheels (fancy rotary switches, > basically), a plugboard, and a bunch of lightbulbs. Well, as far as it goes, a computer needs to be able to: a) have a stored (changeable) programm b) execute instructions conditionaly c) do a loop sometimes also cited: d) a way for input/output of these basics, the Enigma is only good for the first one, since the wheels can be seen as the programm, and they where changeable. None of the other two conditions are met, since there is no loop and no conditional operations ... well, ok, one may see the repetive execution of the ecryption programm as a loop, but then the conditional execution is still missing. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cb at mythtech.net Mon Mar 10 11:56:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: >but then the conditional execution is still missing. Couldn't you consider the result from pressing a button the conditional excution? It is at the simplest form "if button x is pressed then display result y". -chris From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 10 11:59:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. References: <3E6CDC77.23625.91883C6F@localhost> Message-ID: <004501c2e72e$3d1cba80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There's a fellow here on the east coast that actually let me touch his enigma. I hesitate to say "play with", no way I wanted to get into a you-break-t-you-bought-it situation. I believe he's reachable at the TCF and at www.w1tp.com I think he had a $20K pricetag on it BTW Here's a nice page about enigmas, Dayton and w1tp. http://www.angelfire.com/tx/g5aqk/page8.html John A. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Mar 10 12:07:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: >There's a fellow here on the east coast that actually let me touch his >enigma. Humm... maybe its best to let this one go :-) -chris From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 10 12:29:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: Please help with Board ID Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310121904.00ac8a30@mail.30below.com> Just had a bunch of "stuff" dropped off at the store, not the least of which 2 AT&T 3b2/EXP boxen with 5.25" floppies & several RJ-type ports in the back, and we also got a x86-based AT&T box (386, methinks) and in it there is an 8-bit board with the follwing markings: "TIL-XPC" and "TIL SYSTEMS LTD. XPC91 REV 2.0" It's got 4 RJ45 ports (I'm guessing RS-232, from all the 1488's & 1489's...) 4 R6551's, an MC68B54 & an MC68B09EP... Is this just a 4-port serial board with the 6809 playing traffic cop, or is it an "elusive" OS-9 - based SBC? If it's the former, not any great shakes to me (tho I might keep it just in case I need replacement parts for my CoCos...) but if it's the latter... I'll be looking for some software... ;-) Thanks for any help, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 10 12:50:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: <200303101847.KAA06343@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Hans Franke" > >> > Hmm... Doesn't think this is a computer, eh? Wonder what it *is* then? It >> > calculates, and provides a results of those calculations into some kind of >> > output -- usually on paper. > >> Calling an Enigma a computer is really stretching the definition. They >> are incredibly simple machines - the internal circuitry consists of not >> much more than a battery, wires, the wheels (fancy rotary switches, >> basically), a plugboard, and a bunch of lightbulbs. > >Well, as far as it goes, a computer needs to be able to: > >a) have a stored (changeable) programm >b) execute instructions conditionaly >c) do a loop >sometimes also cited: >d) a way for input/output > >of these basics, the Enigma is only good for the first one, >since the wheels can be seen as the programm, and they where >changeable. None of the other two conditions are met, since >there is no loop and no conditional operations ... well, ok, >one may see the repetive execution of the ecryption programm >as a loop, but then the conditional execution is still missing. Hi Hans I think this one does have the ability to do a loop. The rotating wheels constitutes a three level loop. In fact, it is hard wired to loop. Lets see: a. Changing wheels and order changes stored program b. Hitting different keys causes conditional change of output c. Wheels generate nested loops d. Keyboard and display form I/O It looks like it meets your list. Dwight From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 10 13:04:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <200303101847.KAA06343@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > I think this one does have the ability to do a loop. > The rotating wheels constitutes a three level loop. > In fact, it is hard wired to loop. > Lets see: > > a. Changing wheels and order changes stored program > b. Hitting different keys causes conditional change of output > c. Wheels generate nested loops > d. Keyboard and display form I/O > > It looks like it meets your list. SSSSTTTTRRREEETTTCCCHHH....... I should point out the the four way switch I use to turn on the lights in my kitchen folllow the basic ideas of the Enigma. Do I live in a a computer? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 10 13:21:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: <200303101917.LAA06359@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "William Donzelli" > >> I think this one does have the ability to do a loop. >> The rotating wheels constitutes a three level loop. >> In fact, it is hard wired to loop. >> Lets see: >> >> a. Changing wheels and order changes stored program >> b. Hitting different keys causes conditional change of output >> c. Wheels generate nested loops >> d. Keyboard and display form I/O >> >> It looks like it meets your list. > >SSSSTTTTRRREEETTTCCCHHH....... > >I should point out the the four way switch I use to turn on the lights in >my kitchen folllow the basic ideas of the Enigma. Do I live in a a computer? > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > No, it doesn't meet either a or c. It is arguable as to b. I'll give you d. I don't think I stretched on any of the ones I listed. Well, maybe a little on b but the rest are quite clear. It isn't a general purpose computing machine but it is clearly a computing machine. Dwight From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Mar 10 13:41:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:11 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: But does it have casters or wheels (outside, not inside)? -----Original Message----- From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:18 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. It isn't a general purpose computing machine but it is clearly a computing machine. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 10 13:59:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. Message-ID: <200303101956.LAA06414@clulw009.amd.com> No, it doesn't qualify as "heavy iron". Dwight >From: "Feldman, Robert" > >But does it have casters or wheels (outside, not inside)? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] >Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:18 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. > > > >It isn't a general purpose computing machine but it is >clearly a computing machine. >Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 10 16:59:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030310180309.3b0f6bca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:25 PM 3/10/03 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > >It is the U.S. crypto gear that is truely rare... Does that include my AN/UYK-20S and UYK-44s? I'd happily trade them for an Enigma :-) Joe From gmphillips at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 17:03:00 2003 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting Message-ID: <001001c2e759$f76b38a0$0100a8c0@sys1> Dave, Several members of this list who do not agree with the views of a certain obnoxious self appointed "spokeman" for vintage computer enthusiasts forwarded me your post. I decided to take a break from busting up vintage computers with a sledge hammer to "mine" the chips out of them to reply;). Many chip collectors also collect whole undiced silicon wafers. There are a growing number of chip collecting forums where you can buy and trade wafers with other collectors. If you are interested, send me an email and I send you some links. You may also want to consider looking into chip collecting. It's a great way to keep old chips out of the smelter. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Mar 10 17:07:00 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030310180309.3b0f6bca@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200303102304.RAA11435@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > At 12:25 PM 3/10/03 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > > > >It is the U.S. crypto gear that is truely rare... > > Does that include my AN/UYK-20S and UYK-44s? I'd happily trade them for an Enigma :-) > > Joe > No, I think he means the Navaho Code Talkers. Its rare to find one from WWII still in mint condition, and even rarer to convince one to stay in a display case ;) -Lawrence LeMay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 10 17:53:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Please help with Board ID In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310121904.00ac8a30@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Mar 10, 3 01:24:37 pm Message-ID: > Just had a bunch of "stuff" dropped off at the store, not the least of > which 2 AT&T 3b2/EXP boxen with 5.25" floppies & several RJ-type ports in > the back, and we also got a x86-based AT&T box (386, methinks) and in it > there is an 8-bit board with the follwing markings: > > "TIL-XPC" and "TIL SYSTEMS LTD. XPC91 REV 2.0" > > It's got 4 RJ45 ports (I'm guessing RS-232, from all the 1488's & > 1489's...) 4 R6551's, an MC68B54 & an MC68B09EP... Is this just a 4-port > serial board with the 6809 playing traffic cop, or is it an "elusive" OS-9 > - based SBC? I doubt it's the latter :-(. It sounds like a mult-port serial card (the 4 off 6551s...). The oddity is the 68B54. That's a synchronous serial chip, used for some low-cost networks like Acorn's Econet (and for other things of course). I wonder what it's doing here.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 10 17:53:57 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310004939.01b98e30@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Mar 10, 3 00:54:56 am Message-ID: > The ICL OPD (One-Per-Desk) and Merlin Tonto (identical machines internally) > were a derivative of the Sinclair QL, featuring the addition of a telephone > handset, better keyboard, slightly improved microdrives (sufficiently > improved that they are, apparently, incompatible with QL mdvs; something My QL has got OPD microdrives hacked onto it (by me). The OPD microdrives have much the same mechanism, the same ULA, the same joke-of-a-tape-head-mounting [1], etc. There are electrical differences -- I remmeber having to swap wires around between the QL connector and the OPD drives and I think I had to add a 7805 regulator chip. They are tape-format-compatible, or at least they are when used on the QL, in that I've never had more than the usual problems reading tapes recorded on other QLs and vice versa [1] The head is supported only by the electrical connections soldered to the PCB. Alingment consists of moving the PCB on its mounting screws. Typical of Sinclair crap, I'm afraid [2] :-( [2] I've said it before, but I'll say it again. The QL, IMHO, cut just too many corners. Had it sold for, say, \pounds 600 (rather than \pounds 400), but had had decent serial ports, a better keyboard, and a disk drive, then it would have sold rather better I suspect. -tony From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 10 18:55:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Please help with Board ID In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310121904.00ac8a30@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310192149.02392928@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > I wrote before that... > > "TIL-XPC" and "TIL SYSTEMS LTD. XPC91 REV 2.0" > > > > It's got 4 RJ45 ports (I'm guessing RS-232, from all the 1488's & > > 1489's...) 4 R6551's, an MC68B54 & an MC68B09EP... Is this just a 4-port > > serial board with the 6809 playing traffic cop, or is it an "elusive" OS-9 > > - based SBC? > >I doubt it's the latter :-(. It sounds like a mult-port serial card (the >4 off 6551s...). The oddity is the 68B54. That's a synchronous serial >chip, used for some low-cost networks like Acorn's Econet (and for other >things of course). I wonder what it's doing here.... I know -- I'll be able to put up pix tonite, but here's a little more info that "makes one wonder..." It's got 64K of RAM -- not sure why a multiport board would need that much "oomph..." ;-) and it's got 4 or 5 PALs (I think... they've got labels on them ["XPC U23" is the label of one - the labels correspond to the silkscreen of the sockets]) I didn't want to peel the labels, altho I don't mind -- I'd rather see things work, than labels stay in place... ;-) It's also got 2 single-hex-digit rotary dial switches [0-F] not sure what those would be used to select... Not that many DMA channels in an AT class machine, unless it needs 2 IRQs? (They're pointing to 5 and 6, currently) Also, there are 3 1488's and 3 1489s, so maybe the first port isn't RS232? Dunno... Oh, and the card's a full length, or damn near, anyway... ;-) Anywho, I'll write back when I have pix... Tony - is there any format of pictures you can view, or are you text-only? I have some software that can spit out IFF (Amiga, isn't it?), SUN, SGI & Targa... Thankz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Mar 10 19:27:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: RSTS/E CSR Access in MACRO Message-ID: <1047345825.1707.2042.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I've been attempting to do some macro programming of the DEQNA Ethernet card under RSTS/E. All of the system calls to actually send/receive packetes seem to be very well documented and fairly easy to use. What I can't find in any of the manuals (or on the net) is a system call that will return the card's MAC address. I know that the MAC address is the first six bytes of the CSR. However, I'm not sure how to go about accessing the device's CSR from within RSTS/E. Ideally, I'd use a subroutine that would return any network card's MAC given its type (XH or XE) and unit number. I know that I can't be the first person to have ever tried to do this, so I'm turning to those who should know - you guys. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 19:55:01 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: IBM PC bios source available Message-ID: <10030369.64349@webbox.com> Hi all, I don't know if anyone is doing anything with the original PC, but when I had mine I converted it to an XT with a 15meg hard drive. I ended up typing in the PC monitor and modifying it so the bios had a drive entry for the hard drive I had purchased (actually I bought a 10meg and they gave me a 15meg instead). I have a zip file that has both the orginal source and my modified copy if anyone is interested. Just email my privately and I will pass the ZIP on. best regards, Steve Thatcher From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 10 20:11:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: <001001c2e759$f76b38a0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > Several members of this list who do not agree with the views of a certain > obnoxious self appointed "spokeman" for vintage computer enthusiasts forwarded > me your post. Translation: I lurk on this mailing list and only post a message when I have an opportunity to take a cheap jab at someone. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 10 21:17:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310220428.00a8beb8@mail.30below.com> Awrighty... I have pix on the web now... for those who aren't graphically challenged, here's the directory: http://www.30below.com/~zmerch/6809 and a quick directory listing, with a comment of each: 6809board_1.jpg 10-Mar-2003 22:00 269K - Big pic of entire board 6809board_1_s.jpg 10-Mar-2003 22:04 64K - Same pic as above, but small 6809board_end.jpg 10-Mar-2003 22:04 28K - End pic showing ports & logo 6809board_silkscreen.jpg 10-Mar-2003 22:05 8.0K - Small pic showing silkscreen -- I didn't take a picture of the back - there was nothing of consequence that I could see - no parts or silkscreen... but if anyone needs a pic of it, lemme know. The system this came out of was an AT&T "StarSystem" - a 386 clone w/10Mbit ethernet, VGA & the usual stuff on the mobo... I may spark up the system tomorrow, just to see what kind of schtuff might still be on the HD... Anyway, if anyone's got a clue, I'd be most appreciated! Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 10 21:33:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Books & stuff that must go now References: <3E5FE077.5060209@bestweb.net> <003701c2e028$7e9b0f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001c01c2e10c$950cdae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <01b601c2e403$c304c620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001001c2e77e$568d6dc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I have a big pile of Computer & related books, plus > software, etc that need to be gotten rid of: > http://users.bestweb.net/~jamesl/ToGetRidOf.html Chapter 4. I threw out a box this morning, mostly PC'ish stuff, nothing impiortant. Here's some more of the more important stuff: Without Me, You're Nothing HB, Frank Herbert ("Dune") on computing The Analytical Engine HB, Jeremy Bernstein and, Two books on dBase III (softcover) Send in any new requests. John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 10 21:38:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310220428.00a8beb8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20030311033444.54489.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > Awrighty... I have pix on the web now... > The system this came out of was an AT&T "StarSystem" - a 386 clone > w/10Mbit ethernet, VGA & the usual stuff on the mobo... I may spark up > the system tomorrow, just to see what kind of schtuff might still be on > the HD... We had several of these when I was at Lucent (c. 1997-1999). We shut them down because we were told there were Y2K problems with the version of UNIX on them. I personally never worked on one. I was the Solaris dude in a sea of NCR boxes. I have no idea what the StarServers did there, except to assume it was related to factory use/label printing/etc. Sorry I can't give you specifics. I might have an 8-port card or two out of one - PLCC 8530 chips and a high-density cable (two?) to an RJ-45 harmonica. At one time, I had delusions of putting them into an ISA-based UNIX system, but now I'd probably just use a terminal server. -ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Mar 10 21:43:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310220428.00a8beb8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <0bcf01c2e77f$c2234770$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:10 PM Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... > Awrighty... I have pix on the web now... for those who aren't graphically > challenged, here's the directory: > > http://www.30below.com/~zmerch/6809 > Anyway, if anyone's got a clue, I'd be most appreciated! > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Mar 10 21:53:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... Message-ID: <1d2.4cd9b87.2b9eb6f7@aol.com> The only clue I have is that the AT&T StarLAN system used a star topology. I suspect this board is part of a local hub and had a single AT&T PC hooked up to each port. I don't think the AT&T StarLAN system is true Ethernet but someone else will have to speak to that. I do believe the AT&T StarLAN system used RJ45 connectors and was around with 386 systems. Paxton Astoria, OR From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 10 22:36:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: IBM PC bios source available In-Reply-To: <10030369.64349@webbox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, Steve Thatcher wrote: > Hi all, I don't know if anyone is doing anything with the original > PC, but when I had mine I converted it to an XT with a 15meg > hard drive. I ended up typing in the PC monitor and modifying > it so the bios had a drive entry for the hard drive I had purchased > (actually I bought a 10meg and they gave me a 15meg instead). > I have a zip file that has both the orginal source and my modified > copy if anyone is interested. Just email my privately and I will > pass the ZIP on. The original XT hard disk controller (Xebec) could handle certain geometries of 5, 10, 15, 25 MB with a trivial hardware mod. NO software changes required. Near the center of the board are eight solder pads. If you install a dip switch there, you get 4 different drive types for each of the two drives. Both off, the default, is 10 meg (306 cylinders, 4 heads). But, if you wanted some other geometry, (or were unable to solder a switch or jumpers on, then you needed to do some patching, preferably to the ROM on the controller card. From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 10 23:19:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... In-Reply-To: <0bcf01c2e77f$c2234770$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310220428.00a8beb8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030311000448.02616470@mail.30below.com> At 21:39 03/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: > From the picture of the board profile I see 4 Rockwell modem chips. From the >rail end I see 4 RJ11 ports. I would label this a as a "smart" 4 port modem >card. No doubt some of the chips are ram and there is at least one rom chip >with the stored code for the embedded processor. The 2 Toshiba chips >(TC55257BPL-85) near the middle of the board are static RAM Yes, 64K worth, more than enough to run OS-9 Level 1.... which is what I was wondering about... if this was an OS-9 ISA board. I know they *existed* but didn't know if one fell in my lap. There is no ROM onboard ( unless it's disguised *very* heavily... ;-) so it must load whatever code runs on the 68B09 from the main system. [[ the thread entitled "Re: Please help with Board ID" is also about this board & has a list of other chips on the board... ]] This came in with (2) AT&T 3B2/EXP machines (according to one website I found, they're roughly equivalent to a 3B2/1000 Model 70) 22Mhz AT&T CPU, with MMU & math coprocessor. The one that didn't boot had 1 16Meg RAM card in it... wonder what that cost back in '90 (when the machine was built)!!! The other successfully booted into Unix, but we had no root password, so that's as far as we got... If it's just a glorified StarLan network adapter, then I think I'm better off keeping it for parts for my CoCo... -- unless I could find memory maps & other info on it... then it might be fun to tinker with... >Stuart Johnson Thanks! Roger "Merch" Merchberger From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Mar 10 23:32:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine Message-ID: <3E6D7B2A.A22EECE4@attbi.com> William Donzelli wrote: > Calling an Enigma a computer is really stretching the definition. They > are incredibly simple machines - the internal circuitry consists of not > much more than a battery, wires, the wheels (fancy rotary switches, > basically), a plugboard, and a bunch of lightbulbs. Simple is as simple does If you need to build a computer the size of a small room to decipher an Enigma then I would not call an Enigma simple. As for computers - the abacus has been used for a thousand years to perform calculations in situations that would make the use of a Pentium 4 either inappropriate or impossible. So what does that have to do with computers? Well it was humans doing mundane calculations that were first granted the title of computer. In order to be PC :) I choose to define a computer simply as "A machine that calculates". Under this defintion I include not only human beings but also the human brain. Of course, compared to the human brain, Pentium computers "are incredibly simple machines - the internal circuitry consists of not much more than a battery, wires,......" Hans Franke wrote: > Well, as far as it goes, a computer needs to be able to: > a) have a stored (changeable) programm > b) execute instructions conditionaly > c) do a loop > sometimes also cited: > d) a way for input/output I would disagree with this even if you would have said digital computer. My definitions are: Computer - A machine that calculates. Digial computer - A computer that performs mathematical operations in a sequential manner on discrete variables. Analog computer - A computer that performs mathematical operations in a parallel manner on continuous variables. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Mon Mar 10 23:40:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Free Scanning Electron Microscope References: <01d701c2e5e5$bbf285a0$3800a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <00ac01c2e790$42862670$3800a8c0@arctura> Pictures of the microscope and its computer: http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/SEM.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Engdahl" Subject: Free Scanning Electron Microscope > Free scanning electron microscope to whoever wants to come haul it away. It From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 11 01:10:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics Message-ID: <003701c2e79d$120fc3e0$0100000a@milkyway> Hi, I'm trying to track down a copy of the NEC V20 Hardware Manual. I've managed to find a PDF version of the Software (programming) Manual, but the Hardware Manual (which, typically, is filled with the info I need to get this thing running) is a pain in the neck to find, especially now the V20 is classified as obsolete by NEC. I'm also after a copy of the schematics for the original IBM PC-AT and PC-XT. Anyone got a set they can scan or photocopy for me? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From hansp at aconit.org Tue Mar 11 06:05:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine In-Reply-To: <3E6D7B2A.A22EECE4@attbi.com> References: <3E6D7B2A.A22EECE4@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3E6DD073.8060509@aconit.org> I got some interesting numbers from a friend who mentioned he had read an article in the press from last november: In Cologne, Germany a 10 rotor enigma model, one of only 30 made, brought 850,000 euros in a may 2001 auction. In the same article, mention was made that 3 rotor enigmas are valued at between 15 and 25,000 euros. Add 10% for dollars (today). -- hbp From gmphillips at earthlink.net Tue Mar 11 06:44:01 2003 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting References: Message-ID: <001401c2e7cc$aa3ffca0$0100a8c0@sys1> Actually, I had not even been on this list for months. So no, I have not been "lurking". I only put myself back on to the list after getting a few e-mails from some of your fellow list members who do not agree with your views and especially your attitude. It seems that some serious vintage computer enthusiasts are realizing that having someone with your attitude as self appointed "spokesman" could end up hurting their hobby. I think they may be afraid that you might say something obnoxious in a public forum and embarrass the vintage computer enthusiasts you claim to represent. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "classic cmp" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Dave & Chip Collecting > On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > > > Several members of this list who do not agree with the views of a certain > > obnoxious self appointed "spokeman" for vintage computer enthusiasts forwarded > > me your post. > > Translation: I lurk on this mailing list and only post a message when I > have an opportunity to take a cheap jab at someone. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Mar 11 06:46:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Please help with Board ID Message-ID: Sounds like he's run into the baby-sister of Radiant company's proprietary "Power-8" serial card (loosely based on an old Boca design). Its an 8-port powered serial card made to handle 8 RJ45/RS-232 connections, and is driven by a rather bulky (and balky) DefaultX command appliction (similar to a fusion of config.sys and autoexec.bat all rolled into one). It sports a "Basis" CL-PD6729-QC-E and 2 "XP" ST-16C554DC9 chips, as well as a few that aren't quite readable. When it works, its a wonder. When it fails (it always seems to fail one-port-at-a-time...) its a nightmare. (Ever wanna see what happens when the peripheral at the other end of the RS-232 is also powered?? How about ungrounded??) Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:51 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Please help with Board ID Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > I wrote before that... > > "TIL-XPC" and "TIL SYSTEMS LTD. XPC91 REV 2.0" > > > > It's got 4 RJ45 ports (I'm guessing RS-232, from all the 1488's & > > 1489's...) 4 R6551's, an MC68B54 & an MC68B09EP... Is this just a 4-port > > serial board with the 6809 playing traffic cop, or is it an "elusive" OS-9 > > - based SBC? > Anywho, I'll write back when I have pix... Tony - is there any format of pictures you can view, or are you text-only? I have some software that can spit out IFF (Amiga, isn't it?), SUN, SGI & Targa... From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Tue Mar 11 08:08:00 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Apple II Prometheus Versacard Message-ID: Hello All, Can anyone post the dip/jumper settings for this multi-function card? Also, does anyone know if it claims to be Super Serial Card compatible? I'm trying to run ADT over it but not having much success. Thanks. dc From ericj at speakeasy.org Tue Mar 11 08:11:00 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <003701c2e79d$120fc3e0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'm trying to track down a copy of the NEC V20 Hardware Manual. I've > managed to find a PDF version of the Software (programming) Manual, but the > Hardware Manual (which, typically, is filled with the info I need to get > this thing running) is a pain in the neck to find, especially now the V20 is > classified as obsolete by NEC. > I'm also after a copy of the schematics for the original IBM PC-AT and > PC-XT. Anyone got a set they can scan or photocopy for me? > There's a datasheet for the V20 (uPD70108) on partminer.com that has dc/ac characteristics, timing diagrams, pinouts, etc. Sorry, I can't help on the actual hardware manual. Can you get by with docs for the 8088? I thought it was a drop-in replacement. Where did you find the software manual? Regards, -- Eric Josephson From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Mar 11 08:27:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... Message-ID: I used to babysit an AT&T StarServer, a 486 Unix box. It had a board in it (unfortunately I rarely had the oppoutunity to have the box open and don't know what the board was labeled) that served as a multiport serial connection. It could connect to 4 "concentrators" that were flat metal boxes with 16 RJ45 port serial ports that went to dumb terminals. Your card might be similar. The RAM could be for buffering. BTW, the concentrators were very touchy and often failed. They were also static sensitive. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:11 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... The system this came out of was an AT&T "StarSystem" - a 386 clone w/10Mbit ethernet, VGA & the usual stuff on the mobo... I may spark up the system tomorrow, just to see what kind of schtuff might still be on the HD... Anyway, if anyone's got a clue, I'd be most appreciated! Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 11 09:22:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: <001401c2e7cc$aa3ffca0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > Actually, I had not even been on this list for months. So no, I have not > been > "lurking". I only put myself back on to the list after getting a few > e-mails from some of your fellow list members who do not agree with your > views and especially your attitude. John, you are so transparent that it's beyond obvious: it's laughable. Just give it up already. Go play with your chips. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 11 09:29:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: <200303101709.JAA06214@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: I think there were also the original commercial versions made from the mid-1920's on. On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: Joe > > >At 11:00 PM 3/7/03 -0500, you wrote: > >>>Damm! Now there's something that you don't see everyday! > >> > >>I wonder how many are out there in private (non government) hands. > >> > >>I have seen one, in the D-Day Museum in New Orleans. > > > > I doubt there are any still in governement hands except perhaps in museums. > But stop and think for a moment, every unit of the German army, air force, navy > and even railroad police had one during WW II. They must have made tens if not > handreds of thousands of these! And that's not including the ones that were > probably used by Germany's allies. > > Hi > It is most likely that this is one of the ones that > was made after the war. Quite a few of these were made > for other governments after the war. You'll note that > he never said that this one was used during the war > or mentioned a manufacture date. > Dwight > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 11 10:58:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Some newer old stuff for sale Message-ID: I'm passing this along. If interested, please contact the original sender. Reply-to: bobbrill@migate.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:10:01 -0500 From: Bob Brill Subject: A sturdy old computer for sale I've got the following items for sale, all in good working order (with the exception of the keyboard). Compaq 386 (20 Mhz speed, 60 MB hard drive, one 5.25" floppy drive, one 3.5" floppy drive, keyboard, Hercules monochrome video card). Built like a tank. Still works great. The keyboard has a few bad keys, but since it is a standard AT keyboard, it would be easy to replace. Comes with all the original software and manuals, including DOS 3.3, Basic, Hercules utilities and fonts. Samsung monochrome (amber) monitor. (Works well with the Hercules video card.) Iomega external ZIP drive with SCSI card, software and installation instructions. Artist XJS video card with BNC cables, software and manuals. Supports three display resolutions, non-interlaced: 1024 x 768 (16 or 256 colors), 1280 x 1024 (16 colors), 1600 x 1200 (16 colors). The 2 MB of onboard memory can be configured to lie in the address space of the host computer, a very advanced concept for the time. Irwin 400 series tape backup unit with ISA card, manuals, backup software and nine 60 MB tapes. Bob ************************************** * * * See algorithmic imagery at: * * http://users.migate.net/~bobbrill * * * ************************************** -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 11 11:11:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics References: Message-ID: <004001c2e7f1$1716cce0$0100000a@milkyway> Eric Josephson wrote: > There's a datasheet for the V20 (uPD70108) on partminer.com that > has dc/ac characteristics, timing diagrams, pinouts, etc. Problem #1: PartMiner seem to have locked access to *ALL* the datasheets. Fun, fun, fun. What was once a genuinely useful service has now "gone to the dogs"... Thank-you dot.bomb... > Sorry, > I can't help on the actual hardware manual. Can you get by with > docs for the 8088? I thought it was a drop-in replacement. I might be able to use the 8088 docs. The V20 is *supposed* to be a drop-in replacement, but IIRC it needed some (minor) BIOS alterations to get it to work properly in PCs when the 8088 was swapped with a V20. > Where did you find the software manual? www.google.com - I searched for "NEC V20 Hardware Manual". Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From r.sprokholt at chello.nl Tue Mar 11 11:57:00 2003 From: r.sprokholt at chello.nl (Robert Sprokholt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto References: <0f4501c2e61e$15b44be0$0101a8c0@athlon> <5.1.0.14.2.20030310004939.01b98e30@slave> Message-ID: <3E6E2462.7060705@chello.nl> Adrian Vickers wrote: > > [2] What's more, I'll even pay more than 75p[3] & a packet of Rolos! > > [3] or 85p, counting inflation. > > I paid 85 pounds for a Merlin Tonto a few weeks ago. Plus 30 pounds postage. Inflation is high in the Netherlands. I will not sell my Tonto. In fact I'm looking for more sinclair-clones. I already got a CIP03, Robik, HC91, HC2000, Jet, Sintez II, 2 Olimpiks, TC2048 and TS2068. A russian spectr 48 is on it's way. Robert From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 11 12:16:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <003701c2e79d$120fc3e0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E6E35AE.19533.96CCB878@localhost> > I'm trying to track down a copy of the NEC V20 Hardware Manual. I've > managed to find a PDF version of the Software (programming) Manual, but the > Hardware Manual (which, typically, is filled with the info I need to get > this thing running) is a pain in the neck to find, especially now the V20 is > classified as obsolete by NEC. Wasn't the V20 100% Bus (and thus hardware) compatible to the 8088 ? AFAIK, the difference was just internal and softwarewise. The 86 core did in any way reassemble the 86 core of a 186 (same instruction timeing) plus the added 8080 mode. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 11 12:16:32 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: <001401c2e7cc$aa3ffca0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3E6E35AE.16840.96CCB888@localhost> > Actually, I had not even been on this list for months. So no, I have not > been > "lurking". I only put myself back on to the list after getting a few > e-mails from some of your fellow list members who do not agree with your > views and especially your attitude. > It seems that some serious vintage computer enthusiasts are realizing that > having someone with your attitude as self appointed "spokesman" could end up > hurting their hobby. I think they may be afraid that you might say > something obnoxious in a public forum and embarrass the vintage computer > enthusiasts you claim to represent. John, I'd realy apreciate if you could stop that. Fine if you did come back to the list. Everyone is wellcome, but trying to start of with flaming around right with the first mail isn't exactly a way to show decent behaviour. Shure, it's easy to get Sallam upset (and sometimes fun), but that does lack the needed commen sense. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Mar 11 12:23:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:12 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <004001c2e7f1$1716cce0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E6E3782.30240.96D3DD73@localhost> > > Sorry, > > I can't help on the actual hardware manual. Can you get by with > > docs for the 8088? I thought it was a drop-in replacement. > I might be able to use the 8088 docs. The V20 is *supposed* to be a drop-in > replacement, but IIRC it needed some (minor) BIOS alterations to get it to > work properly in PCs when the 8088 was swapped with a V20. Not that I know off. The V20 did behave exactly like an 8088. At some point I did use them on every PC and XT I could. The additional speed was quite cheap. The only time I couldn't use a V30 was in the Siemens PC-MX, a small 8086 Unix box. The self test functions did realy check the timing and result of all instructions and quite a lot more stuff before jumping to the boot loader ... so it flagged the V30 as internaly dammaged... Beside that one, every machine I erver tried, including original PCs, second series PC, XTs and various clones did workl flawless with a V20 (or V30) replacement. The 'as good as possible' attitude of NEC was in my opinion the reason for the quite weired switching between 8088 and 8080 mode. Just to make it as compatible as possible. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Mar 11 12:46:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <3E6E35AE.19533.96CCB878@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > I'm trying to track down a copy of the NEC V20 Hardware Manual. I've > > managed to find a PDF version of the Software (programming) Manual, but the > > Hardware Manual (which, typically, is filled with the info I need to get > > this thing running) is a pain in the neck to find, especially now the V20 is > > classified as obsolete by NEC. > > Wasn't the V20 100% Bus (and thus hardware) compatible > to the 8088 ? AFAIK, the difference was just internal > and softwarewise. The 86 core did in any way reassemble > the 86 core of a 186 (same instruction timeing) plus the > added 8080 mode. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > I remember upgrading an XT clone with a V20 back in those days and it gave a substantial speed boost (V20 has better hardware/microcode then 8088) There were no BIOS changes needed, at least on the PC I had. IICRC there were some compiler changes you could do for code optimization since the V20 has quite a few added instructions including block I/O BTW I have the V20 datasheet (in the NEC 16 bit V series 1991 data book) should someone want to scan it (assuming there is no PDF of it on the web) Peter Wallace From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 11 13:06:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <3E6E3782.30240.96D3DD73@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > I might be able to use the 8088 docs. The V20 is *supposed* to be a drop-in > > replacement, but IIRC it needed some (minor) BIOS alterations to get it to > > work properly in PCs when the 8088 was swapped with a V20. > Not that I know off. The V20 did behave exactly like an 8088. > At some point I did use them on every PC and XT I could. The > additional speed was quite cheap. The only time I couldn't > use a V30 was in the Siemens PC-MX, a small 8086 Unix box. There ARE some differences. It'll drop in as a replacement on a 5150. But on a Gavilan, which uses an 8088, there are modifications required. Uncle Roger has my old Gavilan files, which include a Gavilan document detailing the modifications needed. Besides, it wasn't a completely Bug-For-Bug replacement. NEC failed to implement some of the quirks of the 8088. For example, if an interrupt occurred during the execution of an instruction with a double prefix, the NEC would continue, but the intel would drop one of the prefixes when resuming. REP MOVSB DS:[SI] DS:[DI] will resume with a V20, but with an 8088 will only do one more rep after an interrupt. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 11 13:08:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > IICRC there were some compiler changes you could do for code optimization > since the V20 has quite a few added instructions including block I/O ... and you could do a quick and dirty CP/M emulation if you were willing to stick to 8080 code From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 11 13:14:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <003701c2e79d$120fc3e0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'm also after a copy of the schematics for the original IBM PC-AT and > PC-XT. Anyone got a set they can scan or photocopy for me? The IBM Technical Reference Manual(s) included the schematics. But they were broken up into a lot of pages. Dave Thompson ("Microcornucopia" magazine) took the XT manual and a CAD program, and put the XT ones together into a single large poster. From davol at globalnet.co.uk Tue Mar 11 14:08:01 2003 From: davol at globalnet.co.uk (Dave Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers Message-ID: I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my original posting about collecting silicon wafers. Quite a few of you were a bit puzzled about where the interest lies, so I'll try to explain how I see it: These things (silicon microelectronics devices) are made in vast numbers. A large proportion are packaged and used as intended. Possibly even larger numbers are destroyed as scrap. Yet they each represent the collective effort of a vast number of people and are arguably some of the most complex human artefacts ever created. Sadly, the few wafers that survive unscathed are usually put to such ignoble uses as mats for coffee cups or decorative trinkets. There is another, older and more established area of collecting that shares many of the same characteristics - stamp collecting. 1. Stamps are printed in vast numbers 2. They are used and, in most cases, eventually destroyed 3. They are difficult to forge (convincingly) 4. Most are virtually worthless 5. A few a almost priceless 6. Many are beautiful 7. They have an inherent research interest - printing varieties, flaws, rarities, historical interest etc. 8. They are (usually) considered most valuable unused and even more valuable in an unbroken sheet. Silicon has not attained this degree of interest to collectors, and maybe never will. As fabrication processes shrink ever further and the number of conducting layers increases, chips become featureless (on the surface) and increasingly difficult to study. Neverthless, early devices (on 4" wafers and smaller) are very accessible. So my intention is to find as many of these early wafers as I can and to spend some time studying them - building up a well-documented collection. I have just bought a toy Intel QX3+ microscope and I'm hoping that this will be good enough to reveal some of the detail - manufacturer, rev numbers etc. as well as those interesting signatures frequently sneaked on by the design team. My only anxiety is that the general interest in collecting silicon may take off in a big way before I have managed to build up a workable stock. If you have wafers you can supply, I'd be immensely grateful - though of course, you won't want to part with them now ..... From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 11 14:18:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:08:50 GMT." <003701c2e79d$120fc3e0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <200303110937.JAA32227@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Philip Pemberton" said: > Hi, > I'm trying to track down a copy of the NEC V20 Hardware Manual. I've > managed to find a PDF version of the Software (programming) Manual, but the > Hardware Manual (which, typically, is filled with the info I need to get > this thing running) is a pain in the neck to find, especially now the V20 is > classified as obsolete by NEC. > I'm also after a copy of the schematics for the original IBM PC-AT and > PC-XT. Anyone got a set they can scan or photocopy for me? I can't help you with either of those, but I have a V20 if you need one. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From ericj at speakeasy.org Tue Mar 11 14:34:00 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <004001c2e7f1$1716cce0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Eric Josephson wrote: > > There's a datasheet for the V20 (uPD70108) on partminer.com that > > has dc/ac characteristics, timing diagrams, pinouts, etc. > Problem #1: PartMiner seem to have locked access to *ALL* the datasheets. > Fun, fun, fun. What was once a genuinely useful service has now "gone to the > dogs"... Thank-you dot.bomb... I downloaded it from partminer just last week. I can understand not wanting to go through the registration thing, though. I'll put it up somewhere if you want a copy. > > > Sorry, > > I can't help on the actual hardware manual. Can you get by with > > docs for the 8088? I thought it was a drop-in replacement. > I might be able to use the 8088 docs. The V20 is *supposed* to be a drop-in > replacement, but IIRC it needed some (minor) BIOS alterations to get it to > work properly in PCs when the 8088 was swapped with a V20. > > > Where did you find the software manual? > www.google.com - I searched for "NEC V20 Hardware Manual". I thought I tried that, but was probably searching for something like 70108. ;-) By the way, regarding the orignal message: I do have a copy of the IBM PC Tech Ref (PC, not XT) with the schematics. I may be able to spare some nanocycles to scan them sometime in the next month or so if nobody else has already done so. Regards, -- Eric Josephson From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 11 14:38:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030311203534.44965.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > I'm trying to track down a copy of the NEC V20 Hardware Manual... > > > > Wasn't the V20 100% Bus (and thus hardware) compatible > > to the 8088 ? > > > > I remember upgrading an XT clone with a V20 back in those days and it > gave a substantial speed boost (V20 has better hardware/microcode then > 8088) There were no BIOS changes needed, at least on the PC I had. I did the same, but to more efficiently run CP/M programs under an emulator for MS-DOS. With better instruction-set compatibility with older processors, the V20 had to do less emulation and could run more straight code. The target application? Scott Adams adventures for CP/M. :-) I still have a V20 and a V30 left over from old C= stock from the local service center that closed 10 years ago. -ethan From fubar01 at cyberonic.com Tue Mar 11 14:41:01 2003 From: fubar01 at cyberonic.com (FUBARinSFO) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Free IBM PC stuff for pickup Message-ID: <002501c2e80e$338d0020$6501a8c0@ti5vg> Hi folks -- This is probably not the forum for this question, but I don't know where to go with it. I've got lots of earlier IBM PC equipment and software (i286-i486). My storage facility is closing down and I've got to move it or lose it. Where do I post list of this equipment for pickup? It's in Oakland, CA right now. -- Roy Zider 415-956-2413 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 11 14:52:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics References: <200303110937.JAA32227@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <021401c2e80f$ea7cdc00$0100000a@milkyway> Stan Barr wrote: > I can't help you with either of those, but I have a V20 if you need > one. What package and speed grade? Better yet, can you tell me what the full part number of the chip and the asking price is? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 11 14:57:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers References: Message-ID: <021c01c2e810$a84dffc0$0100000a@milkyway> Dave Wilson wrote: > If you have wafers you can supply, I'd be immensely grateful - > though of course, you won't want to part with them now ..... Same here - I'd like a few silicon wafers - not blanks, wafers that have had ICs manufactured on them and are in one piece. I'd love to put one under a microscope and examine it, but like I said, most of the wafers I've seen for sale are just transistors. I'd love to have a look at a wafer covered in ICs under a microscope. I've got a nice little SLR and it shouldn't be too hard to track down a bit of brass tubing to build a light-tight spacer to get it onto the microscope. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 11 15:06:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics References: Message-ID: <022601c2e811$fcea5960$0100000a@milkyway> Eric Josephson wrote: > I downloaded it from partminer just last week. I can understand not > wanting to go through the registration thing, though. I'll put it up > somewhere if you want a copy. I've registered with Partminer, or rather their other site freetradezone.com. I tried to find a datasheet and it threw up a "Distributor Access Only" error. A quick request for a CAPS Advisor 14-day trial sorted that out. Needless to say, I now have full data on 95% of the ICs in my junk box. > By the way, regarding the orignal message: I do have a copy of the > IBM PC Tech Ref (PC, not XT) with the schematics. I may be able to > spare some nanocycles to scan them sometime in the next month or so > if nobody else has already done so. That would be great - thanks. Does the Techref cover the uPD765 floppy disc controller as well? (did IBM use that chip in the original PC?) Speaking of disc controllers, I need a few uPD765s. Disc controllers and SuperI/O chips are like hen's teeth around here. I've got a Holtek HT6552IR in unknown condition with no data. Holtek did send me the datasheet, but my PC suffered a hard drive failure (yes, current hard drives are still afflicted by the age old problem of sticktion). Someone also mentioned a copy of the IBM PC schematics was included with Microcornucopia magazine? If this is/was true, I'd love a copy. A memory map would also be useful. I do have source code for a PC/XT BIOS (from programmersheaven.com iirc) so I don't need the BIOS sources scanning. Now I wonder if IBM still have any Techrefs in stock... And while I'm on the subject of PCs, I've tracked down a really nice Dell keyboard. It seems like it uses a buckling-spring mechanism. This is based on the fact that it makes a very loud click when a key goes down. It also makes a "boing" type noise akin to a spring popping out and flying into a wall. It's Dell P/N 093GDJ, FCC ID GYUM90SK. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Mar 11 15:12:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c2e812$7ae79d50$cb87fe3e@athlon> > > Problem #1: PartMiner seem to have locked access to *ALL* the > > datasheets. Fun, fun, fun. What was once a genuinely useful service > > has now "gone to the dogs"... Thank-you dot.bomb... > > I downloaded it from partminer just last week. I can > understand not wanting to go through the registration thing, > though. I'll put it up somewhere if you want a copy. A few years ago partminer (aka Free Trade Zone) was available for free. Then it closed its doors to anyone not paying for the subscription service (which is $1000s or more per annum). Now it seems that *some* data sheets are available and some are locked. Not all discontinued parts are available, I didn't search long enough to see any logic to it. I guess as long as *some* stuff is there, it may be worth registering. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 11 15:21:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <021c01c2e810$a84dffc0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <20030311211800.94260.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'd love to have a look at a wafer covered in ICs under a microscope. Me, too, but I haven't seen any of the 4" or older wafers for sale. I have seen 8" wafers here and there. > I've got a nice little SLR and it shouldn't be too hard to track down a > bit of brass tubing to build a light-tight spacer to get it onto the > microscope. I picked up a ring for my Konica SLR called a "T-mount adapter" - one face fits my camera as if it were a lens, the other is a standard set of threads that fits a variety of devices. On the Ice, we had a microscope with a light gate - flipped one way, you saw the specimen under the objective; flipped the other way, the view switched to the T-mount on the front - made microphotography easy. Personally, I got my adapter for astrophotography - they make T-mount adapters for amateur telescopes. The difference here is that with an SLR, you just mount it on the end of your telescope and leave it there... just squeeze the shutter bulb and hold it for as long as you need (I've had good results with wide-field astrophotography (no telescope, just a regular lens) with ASA 400 film and 45-120 seconds of exposure (aurorae, The Milky Way, etc.). -ethan > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Mar 11 15:25:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Free IBM PC stuff for pickup In-Reply-To: <002501c2e80e$338d0020$6501a8c0@ti5vg> Message-ID: <0d0501c2e814$14192f60$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Posting to this list might get you a few nibbles, depending on what you've got. Free stuff on Craig's List (www.craigslist.org) usually goes pretty fast. Worst case, Weird Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale will probably take most of it. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of FUBARinSFO Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 12:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Free IBM PC stuff for pickup Hi folks -- This is probably not the forum for this question, but I don't know where to go with it. I've got lots of earlier IBM PC equipment and software (i286-i486). My storage facility is closing down and I've got to move it or lose it. Where do I post list of this equipment for pickup? It's in Oakland, CA right now. -- Roy Zider 415-956-2413 From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 11 16:02:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Dave Wilson wrote: > My only anxiety is that the general interest in collecting > silicon may take off in a big way before I have managed to build > up a workable stock. Indeed. Just try to keep a "Silicon Wafers" category from being created on eBay for as long as possible and you'll be in the clear for a while :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 11 16:30:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers Message-ID: <200303112223.OAA08668@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Dave Wilson wrote: >> My only anxiety is that the general interest in collecting >> silicon may take off in a big way before I have managed to build >> up a workable stock. > >Indeed. Just try to keep a "Silicon Wafers" category from being created >on eBay for as long as possible and you'll be in the clear for a while :) > Hi Even wafer collecting can have monetary value. A while back, at the beginning of the last Middle East action, there was a military requirement for mil spec TTL parts. I don't recall which but I believe it was 74139's that were in short supply. Anyone with a wafer of these could just about name their price. The fact is that most companies consider the wafers as proprietary information. They would rather destroy it or send it back to the foundry to be recycled. Wafers that do make it to the outside world are usually from some company that has shut down and had a warehouse of overstocks. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 11 16:48:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Please help with Board ID In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310192149.02392928@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Mar 10, 3 07:51:02 pm Message-ID: > It's got 64K of RAM -- not sure why a multiport board would need that much Perhaps it's (also?) some kind of custom network card. That could explain the 6854 and the RAM. > "oomph..." ;-) and it's got 4 or 5 PALs (I think... they've got labels on > them ["XPC U23" is the label of one - the labels correspond to the I guess the product is called the 'XPC' then. The 'PC' part would appear to be obvious... > silkscreen of the sockets]) I didn't want to peel the labels, altho I don't > mind -- I'd rather see things work, than labels stay in place... ;-) > > It's also got 2 single-hex-digit rotary dial switches [0-F] not sure what > those would be used to select... Not that many DMA channels in an AT class Network address? > machine, unless it needs 2 IRQs? (They're pointing to 5 and 6, currently) > > Also, there are 3 1488's and 3 1489s, so maybe the first port isn't RS232? > Dunno... You can't conclude that. There are 4 independant driver or receiver circuits in each chip. It could easily be 3 per external connector. These connectors have 8 pins, right? In which case, one has to be signal ground. I could well believe 3 outputs (TxD, RTS, DTR, say) and 3 inputs (RxD, CTS, DSR (or DCD)) for each port. > > Oh, and the card's a full length, or damn near, anyway... ;-) > > Anywho, I'll write back when I have pix... Tony - is there any format of > pictures you can view, or are you text-only? I have some software that can My PC is still text-only. I have access to a Mac, but transfering stuff onto it is a pain. So I probably can't easily view the pictures (and I probably couldn't deduce that much from them anyway). -tony From gmphillips at earthlink.net Tue Mar 11 17:32:01 2003 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting References: <3E6E35AE.16840.96CCB888@localhost> Message-ID: <004501c2e827$29c8a8a0$0100a8c0@sys1> Point taken. No intention to start a flame war with Sellam. Been there, done that. I was just reponding to Sellam's "Dave, certain chip collectors are not highly regarded on this mailing list. Responsible and non-obnoxious ones are quite welcome" comment. Dave, it's interesting to see your interest in stamp collecting. I have a nice sized plate block collection. I've always wondered, do serious plate block collectors have a problem with collectors who collect single stamps? Do plate block collectors get upset because they think that stamp collectors are going around tearing up plate blocks to get the individual stamps out of them? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Franke" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Dave & Chip Collecting > > Actually, I had not even been on this list for months. So no, I have not > > been > > "lurking". I only put myself back on to the list after getting a few > > e-mails from some of your fellow list members who do not agree with your > > views and especially your attitude. > > It seems that some serious vintage computer enthusiasts are realizing that > > having someone with your attitude as self appointed "spokesman" could end up > > hurting their hobby. I think they may be afraid that you might say > > something obnoxious in a public forum and embarrass the vintage computer > > enthusiasts you claim to represent. > > > John, I'd realy apreciate if you could stop that. Fine if you did > come back to the list. Everyone is wellcome, but trying to start > of with flaming around right with the first mail isn't exactly a > way to show decent behaviour. > > Shure, it's easy to get Sallam upset (and sometimes fun), but that > does lack the needed commen sense. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 11 17:35:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: 6809 Board ID, take 2... In-Reply-To: <0bcf01c2e77f$c2234770$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "Stuart Johnson" at Mar 10, 3 09:39:01 pm Message-ID: > >From the picture of the board profile I see 4 Rockwell modem chips. From the The list of chips given yesterday included 4 oiff 65C51s. Those would be likely to be Rockwell, but aren't modem ICs -- they're async serial port chips. Are there some other Rockwell chips too? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 11 17:35:20 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <022601c2e811$fcea5960$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 11, 3 09:05:44 pm Message-ID: > > By the way, regarding the orignal message: I do have a copy of the > > IBM PC Tech Ref (PC, not XT) with the schematics. I may be able to > > spare some nanocycles to scan them sometime in the next month or so > > if nobody else has already done so. > That would be great - thanks. Does the Techref cover the uPD765 floppy disc > controller as well? (did IBM use that chip in the original PC?) Speaking of The early editions of the TechRefs included the disk controller card schematics. Later on,. these schematics were moved to the Options and Adapters TechRef, but were still available. None of the TechRefs AFAIK included the 765 (or 8272, much the same chip) data sheet. And yes, the original PC disk controller used the 765 chip. > Now I wonder if IBM still have any Techrefs in stock... They did some 6 or 7 years ago when I ordered my set... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 11 17:35:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <021c01c2e810$a84dffc0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 11, 3 08:56:15 pm Message-ID: > sale are just transistors. I'd love to have a look at a wafer covered in ICs > under a microscope. I've got a nice little SLR and it shouldn't be too hard > to track down a bit of brass tubing to build a light-tight spacer to get it > onto the microscope. You might be able to get a proper microscope adapter for the SLR. I found the one for my Exakta in a camera shop for \pounds 9.00, still in original box (no, I don't care about that, I bought it to use [1]). OK, that's a fair amount of money for a tube, but it is a nice tube, with the bayonet mount, a couple of extension tubes you can fit or not as you chose, the collet to clamp to the microscope, etc. Making it up would have taken a lot of time. You want to find an old-fashioned sort of camera shop, preferably one that also sells second-hand cameras. They have the most amazing bits hidden away. [1] I picked up a reasonable Zenith microscope with several objectives and eypieces for 20 quid or so in a charity shop (of all places). -tony From kittstr at access-4-free.com Tue Mar 11 18:01:00 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs GUI Message-ID: <016d01c2e82a$10f81740$64463b41@amscomputer> Hi all, When I picked up my Apple IIgs at a yard sale a few years ago, I didn't come with any disks or drives. I picked up a "duo-disk" 5.25" drive and a monitor on e-bay. I also stole a few disks from a high school I was working at. I have been having fun off and on with it over the last few years, but I really want to use it they way it was intended. (with a GUI). I don't have a 3.5" disk drive and the only places I have seen system disks only offered them on 3.5" media. So my question to the list is, Does anyone have system disks on 5.25" media they would be willing to copy for me. I cover shipping and any duplication fees. Thanks for any help you can provide! Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 11 18:05:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <20030311211800.94260.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > I'd love to have a look at a wafer covered in ICs under a microscope. Have you played with the Intel microscope? It's marketed as a toy, but seems like it would be handy for this kind of thing. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 11 18:05:18 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: <004501c2e827$29c8a8a0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > Point taken. No intention to start a flame war with Sellam. Been there, > done that. Yes, every time. > I was just reponding to Sellam's "Dave, certain chip collectors are not > highly regarded on this mailing list. Responsible and non-obnoxious ones > are quite welcome" comment. I find it interesting that on the few occasions where you do grace us with your presence, it is always preluded by some weak attempt to discredit my reputation, and you fail to offer up anything of any use to anyone. For instance: > Dave, it's interesting to see your interest in stamp collecting. I have a > nice sized plate block collection. I've always wondered, do serious plate > block collectors have a problem with collectors who collect single stamps? > Do plate block collectors get upset because they think that stamp collectors > are going around tearing up plate blocks to get the individual stamps out of > them? You proceed to post complete and absolute drivel like this that serves no purpose other than to inflame. Excuse me for pointing out the obvious. Have you nothing better to do with your existence? Do us all a favor and just shut your annoying trap. You're like a pimple on my ass: I would squeeze you until your vile liquids spewed out if only I could find you. The fact that you go under a pseudonym indicates to me that you've pissed off enough people. What *are* you hiding from? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dundas at caltech.edu Tue Mar 11 18:23:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: RSTS/E CSR Access in MACRO In-Reply-To: <1047345825.1707.2042.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: Well, nobody else is responding (publicly) so I'll take a stab at it. At 5:23 PM -0800 3/10/03, Christopher McNabb wrote: >I've been attempting to do some macro programming of the DEQNA Ethernet >card under RSTS/E. All of the system calls to actually send/receive >packetes seem to be very well documented and fairly easy to use. What I >can't find in any of the manuals (or on the net) is a system call that >will return the card's MAC address. I'm not aware of such a function either. >I know that the MAC address is the first six bytes of the CSR. Uh, I don't have my DEQNA manual in front of me at the moment, but are you sure that's correct? Usually the CSR implements bits that control the module itself and provide status information. The MAC address should be readable (and writable too), but through some specific function code to the device. In any event, the correct sequence of commands can surely be obtained from the manual. >However, >I'm not sure how to go about accessing the device's CSR from within >RSTS/E. [I'll probably get flamed here, but I'll proceed anyway. My experience is primarily from RSTS V7 and prior. While I did write system KBMs, run-time libraries, etc. However these were in user mode, not kernel mode. Never did get around to writing the virtual disk driver I wanted to. DEC came out with their own in V8 or V9.] In order to talk directly to a device under RSTS you need to be in kernel mode, not user mode. I am not aware of a RSTS-native way to do something like RSX or VMS connect-to-interrupt directives or the like. Similarly there is not a (published) way to map I/O space to user space. This is really the kind of thing you need to accomplish what you are asking. >Ideally, I'd use a subroutine that would return any network >card's MAC given its type (XH or XE) and unit number. I imagine it could be done, but you'd have to do some kernel-mode hacking to accomplish it. >I know that I can't be the first person to have ever tried to do this, >so I'm turning to those who should know - you guys. Any help would be >greatly appreciated. Afraid that's the best I can offer. You might check the various internals manuals at and see if that gives you any hints. If you do figure it out, please post the results. John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 11 18:45:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics References: <022601c2e811$fcea5960$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E6E81A7.9000506@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > That would be great - thanks. Does the Techref cover the uPD765 floppy disc > controller as well? (did IBM use that chip in the original PC?) Speaking of > disc controllers, I need a few uPD765s. Disc controllers and SuperI/O chips > are like hen's teeth around here. I've got a Holtek HT6552IR in unknown > condition with no data. Holtek did send me the datasheet, but my PC suffered > a hard drive failure (yes, current hard drives are still afflicted by the > age old problem of sticktion). B.G. Micro still has 765's in stock. $4.00 each. http://www.bgmicro.com/ Ben. From cbajpai at attbi.com Tue Mar 11 19:03:01 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <200303112223.OAA08668@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000901c2e832$9c1c3ba0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Before anyone goes in trying to cash in their wafers...I assume any wafer that was not kept in a clean room environment is worthless. The couple of wafers I have finger prints so they definitely are worthless! -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 5:24 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: collecting silicon wafers >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Dave Wilson wrote: >> My only anxiety is that the general interest in collecting >> silicon may take off in a big way before I have managed to build >> up a workable stock. > >Indeed. Just try to keep a "Silicon Wafers" category from being created >on eBay for as long as possible and you'll be in the clear for a while :) > Hi Even wafer collecting can have monetary value. A while back, at the beginning of the last Middle East action, there was a military requirement for mil spec TTL parts. I don't recall which but I believe it was 74139's that were in short supply. Anyone with a wafer of these could just about name their price. The fact is that most companies consider the wafers as proprietary information. They would rather destroy it or send it back to the foundry to be recycled. Wafers that do make it to the outside world are usually from some company that has shut down and had a warehouse of overstocks. Dwight From gmphillips at earthlink.net Tue Mar 11 19:16:00 2003 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting References: Message-ID: <000c01c2e835$c1480af0$0100a8c0@sys1> 1. Sellam, you started this, and you are the one who just refuses to let it go, no matter how stupid it makes you look. 2. The only reason the plate block vs. stamp collector analogy "inflames" you is because it just demonstrates just how truely ignorant you really are. 3. Try washing your ass once and a while and those pimples will probably go away. 4. What's the real source of this Jihad against chip collectors? What *is* the cause of your deep seated anger? Were you molested as a child? Impotent? What *are* you hiding Sellam? If I were you, I would get some professional help. I suggest you start by attending a meeting of your local Assoholics Anonymous. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Dave & Chip Collecting > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > > > Point taken. No intention to start a flame war with Sellam. Been there, > > done that. > > Yes, every time. > > > I was just reponding to Sellam's "Dave, certain chip collectors are not > > highly regarded on this mailing list. Responsible and non-obnoxious ones > > are quite welcome" comment. > > I find it interesting that on the few occasions where you do grace us > with your presence, it is always preluded by some weak attempt to > discredit my reputation, and you fail to offer up anything of any use to > anyone. > > For instance: > > > Dave, it's interesting to see your interest in stamp collecting. I have a > > nice sized plate block collection. I've always wondered, do serious plate > > block collectors have a problem with collectors who collect single stamps? > > Do plate block collectors get upset because they think that stamp collectors > > are going around tearing up plate blocks to get the individual stamps out of > > them? > > You proceed to post complete and absolute drivel like this that serves no > purpose other than to inflame. Excuse me for pointing out the obvious. > Have you nothing better to do with your existence? > > Do us all a favor and just shut your annoying trap. You're like a pimple > on my ass: I would squeeze you until your vile liquids spewed out if only > I could find you. > > The fact that you go under a pseudonym indicates to me that you've pissed > off enough people. What *are* you hiding from? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 11 19:30:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: from "John Galt" at Mar 11, 2003 08:21:48 PM Message-ID: <200303120127.h2C1RPpE017462@shell1.aracnet.com> Would both of you kindly take this garbage off line. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Mar 11 19:36:00 2003 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: KS10 #4469 is safe. Message-ID: <13817626906.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> KS10 #4469 was moved successfully from my mother's house to the current residence. It's in the garage now but we're trying to move it inside as soon as possible. The TU45 was unrepairable and we had no room for it here so it was abandoned at the house. Assuming we can get it into the basement where I can hack on it, we plan to try hacking the Viking UDT controller I have into working with TOPS10 or TOPS20. For now though, the system is out of immediate danger. ------- From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 11 20:38:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: <000c01c2e835$c1480af0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > 4. What's the real source of this Jihad against chip collectors? What I knew this came down to racism. (You piece of shit.) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 11 20:47:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers Message-ID: <200303120243.SAA09041@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Not necessarily. If these have been passivated, your finger prints can be cleaned off. If not, the sodium will have destroyed the functioning of the transistors. Dwight >From: "Chandra Bajpai" > >Before anyone goes in trying to cash in their wafers...I assume any >wafer that was not kept in a clean room environment is worthless. The >couple of wafers I have finger prints so they definitely are worthless! > >-Chandra > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey >Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 5:24 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: collecting silicon wafers > >>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" >> >>On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Dave Wilson wrote: >>> My only anxiety is that the general interest in collecting >>> silicon may take off in a big way before I have managed to build >>> up a workable stock. >> >>Indeed. Just try to keep a "Silicon Wafers" category from being >created >>on eBay for as long as possible and you'll be in the clear for a while >:) >> > >Hi > Even wafer collecting can have monetary value. A while back, at >the beginning of the last Middle East action, there was a military >requirement for mil spec TTL parts. I don't recall which but >I believe it was 74139's that were in short supply. Anyone >with a wafer of these could just about name their price. > The fact is that most companies consider the wafers as >proprietary information. They would rather destroy it or send >it back to the foundry to be recycled. Wafers that do make >it to the outside world are usually from some company that >has shut down and had a warehouse of overstocks. >Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 11 20:55:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Looking for system software that came with Arche Rival ($$$) Message-ID: I am searching for the system software that came with the Arche Rival computer. This is a 386 PC that came out in 1989. The software that was bundled with it is key, specifically the anti-virus software that was included (called something like "Virus Free"). If anyone has this then please contact me. There is a bounty on this :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gmphillips at earthlink.net Tue Mar 11 21:05:01 2003 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting References: Message-ID: <000b01c2e844$f4c693b0$0100a8c0@sys1> If all else fails, play the race card. Perhaps I should have used the term "crusade". Would that be acceptible? You are Pathetic. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Dave & Chip Collecting > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > > > 4. What's the real source of this Jihad against chip collectors? What > > I knew this came down to racism. > > (You piece of shit.) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Mar 11 21:21:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:13 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: <000b01c2e844$f4c693b0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: HEY!!!! STOP. Take it off list. We don't need this to degrade into a name-calling mail list. I don't care who is saying all of this, it just needs to stop. If I were the list manager (which I'm not) you both would have been kickbanned by now. There's no reason to have to wade through these messages to get to what I want to read... it's really worse than spam, IMHO. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > If all else fails, play the race card. Perhaps I should have used the term > "crusade". Would that be acceptible? You are Pathetic. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:30 PM > Subject: Re: Dave & Chip Collecting > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, John Galt wrote: > > > > > 4. What's the real source of this Jihad against chip collectors? What > > > > I knew this came down to racism. > > > > (You piece of shit.) > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 11 21:48:03 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <3E69CB1A.3010909@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 08 March 2003 10:51 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > I have one, but not a spare! :-( > > It's in an ICL One Per Desk, and of course is capable of pulse-dialling > only. Have you considered repairing the one you've got? I've been told they do tone dialling too, based on the unsupported DIP switches in the telephony module. Haven't tried it though; all of my OPDs are downstairs in boxes. > Has someone tried to desolder the chips? The damage looks like it's > consistently opposite the pin 1 end of all the DIL parts. I'm sure > we could work out what's missing if you want to attempt replacements. There's too much track damage unfortunately; whoever was removing the RAMs really didn't care about the donor machine. Of course, anything's possible with some sockets and wire-wrap, but TBH I only bought that machine for the extras that came with it like spare microdrives and extended ROM pods with a different version of Xchange. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 11 21:49:52 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310004939.01b98e30@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 10 March 2003 00:55 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > The ICL OPD (One-Per-Desk) and Merlin Tonto (identical machines > internally) Identical machines, period :) The only differences were the stick-on badges and serial number stickers on the bottom. > were a derivative of the Sinclair QL, featuring the addition of a > telephone > handset, better keyboard, slightly improved microdrives (sufficiently > improved that they are, apparently, incompatible with QL mdvs; something > I've not checked yet), and a much bigger ROM. That ROM contains a Everything was re-engineered by ICL, so the only thing the OPD shares with the QL is the 3 QL ROMs and the CPU. Everything else is different. ICL also re-engineered the microdrives to make them more rugged and reliable; whether they were successful at this or not remains a moot point I think. They're definitely incompatible. The only way of doing data transfer from machine to machine is serially, and remember the serial port on the OPD is for a printer only so is uni-directional. > telephone > directory, and a few other utilities to boot. Add-on ROMs included > messaging (I'm unsure as to what that is yet, although mine has > it), Psion > Xchange (Quill word processor, Easel graphics - well, graphs, Archive > database and Abacus spreadsheet). Xchange also featured on the > CST Thor[1], > and was also ported to the PC, IIRC. The QL suffered along with the > original separate packages until its demise. Also the machine had the same pre-emptive fully cooperating multi tasking kernel, so all the apps could run together and share things. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/icl/opd.htm and http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/icl/tonto.htm > entirely sure what they did to it to make it that slow; the QL seems to > trot along much more quickly. Maybe ICL just didn't write decent > software... I don't recall either of mine being any slower than the QL, though it's a few months since I last played with one. I just wish I had some documentation for 'em. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 11 21:50:09 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310005516.00b56998@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 10 March 2003 00:59 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > It does have a really nasty voice synthesizer built into it, > though, so it > will take a call unattended, and play the pre-recorded messages. It lacks > the ability to say things like "Good morning" though... I think it's also > limited to a single auto-answer setting, which can be set to > automatically > come on between certain times, and (possibly) overridden. I've yet to > experiment with that side of it. I'm sure it can respond to different numbers with different messages though, also it *can* say good morning, as well as things like 'I'm away getting head with my secretary on holiday' :) There was a competition on radio not so long back (Chris Moyles or Scrawn&Lard on Radio1 IIRC) where people actually recorded their OPDs saying rude things, so I just *had* to have a go myself....hehe..... Ah - from my own webpage (duh): "1.5 SPEECH SYNTHESISER This consists of a Texas TMP5220C IC with a vocabulary in a separate, custom ROM of 152 words, plus letters and numbers. Facilities include limited text-to-voice conversion from keyboard entry and playback-to-test. Up to 16 messages can be pre-assembled and 2 used, automatically, by time-of-day selection, for auto-answer of incoming voice calls. Incoming voice messages cannot be recorded " cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Mar 11 21:50:24 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030310003934.00b599a8@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 10 March 2003 00:41 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > >http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG > > Ouch: Was someone trying out a fancy new laser cutting tool, perchance? I think they were seeing how much damage they could do! Thinking about it, even some harsh desoldering couldn't do that sort of damage could it? Even if you were levering the chips bodily out of their mountings I'd expect the legs to break before the solder. > Having said that, maybe the telephony is OK, but the main beastie > is shot. > I'd be quite happy to test the telephony module in my (otherwise > fine) OPD... Be easier if I tested it up here first. Just got to dig out the low-res monitor from its hiding place....the hi-res one is too high up and underneath too much other stuff for me to easily get! > Not according to pictures of their last meet in London, but maybe no-one > told them yet :) This is true. Looks like everyone had fun! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From ted at larsonland.com Tue Mar 11 21:50:42 2003 From: ted at larsonland.com (Ted Larson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: PMC Micromate's... Message-ID: <0F38B46512C1D4118E5A00A0CC2426A005DC21@nexus1> I was cleaning out the closet over the weekend, and dug out a couple of PMC Micromates. A buddy of mine used to work for PMC and was the systems programmer who wrote the Micromate BIOS. He passed away a few years ago, and his family gave me all the old PMC stuff in his garage. I also owned my own Micromate, and had alot of software for it too. Here is what I found in the closet: 2 - Complete PMC Micromates (Minus the terminals because they took too much space to store) 1 - Prototype Hard Drive Controller w/Drive (I think 10 meg) and external power supply. 1 - CP/M Plus manual and disk set 1 - Big box of software from the East Bay PMC MMUG 1 - Big box of licensed software such as TMaker, and such. The hard-drive and controller probably has some historical value, because it is an early-non-production prototype of the final hard-drive product they made. I would be interested in finding all of this stuff a home where it will be appreciated. As far as I know, it is all functional equipment. I am in the SF Bay Area. Any PMC junkies out there? Thanks, - Ted Larson ted@larsonland.com From ed_edmn at hotmail.com Tue Mar 11 21:50:58 2003 From: ed_edmn at hotmail.com (ed_edmn@hotmail.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Source for HP 85 Tapes Message-ID: Hi www.athana .com # 40-100A are HP85 compatible and brand new, at $26.50 ea. (28/03/2003) not cheap but they work. Regards Ed From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Tue Mar 11 21:51:14 2003 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Finally got S720B software for INMOS iX X Terminal (aka B020) Board Message-ID: Hi, I was finally able to get the software for the B020 (aka Bozo) transputer graphics board from Inmos. Apparently, a complete B020 was on Ebay (but I missed out, saw it too late): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3405802865&category=162 Asked the seller if he could provide me with a copy of the disks, and bingo! Just wished I had a copy of the manual as well. I'll post this on the website.... Cheers, Ram PS: I was looking for this for well over 3 years and the only other source of the software that I knew of lead to a dead-end. And he has the several copies of the docs as well, plus previous versions of the software too :-( _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From root at parse.com Tue Mar 11 21:51:32 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Origins of Hierarchical Filesystems Message-ID: <200303110341.WAA25750@parse.com> Hi folks, writing a chapter on filesystems, and was wondering if anyone knows the origins of the hierarchical filesystem (and no, it wasn't MS-DOS 2.0 :-)) I know TOPS-10 and friends used it, so it's got to be at least that old. Any takers? I'm looking for a ballpark year and the name of the OS and company... Probably just reply to me only; I'll be happy to summarize for the group. Thanks! -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From fubar01 at cyberonic.com Tue Mar 11 21:51:49 2003 From: fubar01 at cyberonic.com (FUBARinSFO) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #412 - 57 msgs References: <20030310180001.26483.93433.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <00e101c2e792$8a87c3f0$6501a8c0@ti5vg> All -- Apple ][ gear picked up today -- Eric Smith was first to call. Thanks to all for asking. -- Roy Zider ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #412 - 57 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: New To List and PDP8 Question (Bill Kotaska) 2. Apple ][ gear for pickup (FUBARinSFO) 3. Re: Apple ][ gear for pickup (Lawrence LeMay) 4. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (James Rice) 5. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Steven N. Hirsch) 6. RE: New bounties ($$$) (vance@neurotica.com) 7. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (John Honniball) 8. HP41 problem.. (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) 9. Re: PDP-11/34 Progress Report (Tony Duell) 10. Free Scanning Electron Microscope (Jonathan Engdahl) 11. Info on Dataspeed's products (Gary P. Apte) 12. PDP-11/34 Progress Report (Jeffrey Sharp) 13. Re: Free Scanning Electron Microscope (Ethan Dicks) 14. vs3100m38 single user boot???. (Fred deBros) 15. Re: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) (Robert F. Schaefer) 16. RE: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! (Witchy) 17. Using a PS/2 Mouse on the GRiD 1755 Keyboard Port (Burke, Richard P.) 18. Re: HP41 problem.. (Tony Duell) 19. Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA (Michael) 20. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (stu) 21. Project Parts? (Mail List) 22. Tandy 1000 EX; Commodore 64 + 1541? floppy (Robert Krten) 23. Re: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more (Stuart Johnson) 24. Re: New To List and PDP8 Question (Stuart Johnson) 25. IDing IBM Floppy Drive Parts (Richard A. Cini) 26. Re: IDing IBM Floppy Drive Parts (Don Maslin) 27. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (Vintage Computer Festival) 28. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (John Honniball) 29. Re: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA (Ethan Dicks) 30. Re: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA (Fred N. van Kempen) 31. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Steve Jones) 32. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Philip Pemberton) 33. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (ben franchuk) 34. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Philip Pemberton) 35. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (steven) 36. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Philip Pemberton) 37. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Zane H. Healy) 38. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Roger Merchberger) 39. RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (Adrian Vickers) 40. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (John Allain) 41. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (Adrian Vickers) 42. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (Adrian Vickers) 43. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (Adrian Vickers) 44. Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto (Adrian Vickers) 45. Re: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA (Megan) 46. Re: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? (Al Kossow) 47. Re: PDP-11/34 Progress Report (Jeffrey Sharp) 48. DECserver 200 hack... (Robert F. Schaefer) 49. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Frank McConnell) 50. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Brian Chase) 51. Re: Collecting silicon wafers (Keys) 52. Re: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? (Glen S) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Bill Kotaska" To: Subject: Re: New To List and PDP8 Question Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 12:05:59 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: Re: New To List and PDP8 Question > > I usually just buy the core stacks from DEC resellers. You pay a bit > more, but you generally get something that has been cared for and > works. > The resellers I have contacted have no more of these. > > Are you saying you have a case/power supply and omnibus? Or are you > trying to cobble something together without case/ps? > Cobble together is a very good way to describe what I am trying to do. I wish I had a case/power supply but don't and can't believe what systems are fetching on eBay. I guess I just have a burning desire to see one actually work (I love blinkenlights!) > One of the main problems I had with my first 8/E, was that most of the front > panel bulbs were burned out. Probably because once a few burn out, the voltage > rises on the others causing them to burn out faster. > My panel has bulbs and I plan to gently apply the supply to these for the first time until I see what it takes to turn them on. Bill --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "FUBARinSFO" To: Cc: "Norm Aleks" Subject: Apple ][ gear for pickup Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 10:28:45 -0800 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hi folks: I've got to move out of my storage space in Oakland, CA this month. I've been saving my Apple ][ gear and software for years. I'd like to find a home for it -- it's like a train set with all the accessories. This is killing me already just posting this message. If you have an interest, please let me know ASAP. E-mail or call me at 415-956-2413. -- Roy Zider Short list of major items: Apple ][ (original) with ROM upgrade to ][+ Videx keyboard enhancements (with function key strip) Reset switch (as I recall), other unidentified case switch External case fan Language card (bumping memory from 48KB to 64KB) Microsoft SoftCard (CP/M card) AppliCard (CP/M card) Custom hard carrying case for system unit, drives. Two floppy drives SuperSerial card Axlon Ramdisk 320KB (solid state disk drive) Davong 10MB external hard drive (nice breadbox enclosure) Sweet-P plotter (serial interface) Thermal printer (maybe), paper. Boxes of software (Apple and CP/M) incl WordStar Apple ][ Technical Reference Manuals Apple ][ manuals (may have some water damage) --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: Apple ][ gear for pickup To: cctech@classiccmp.org Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 12:38:32 -0600 (CST) From: Lawrence LeMay Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Yes, i'm looking for an original apple ][, if you're willing to ship it. Just let me know. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu University of Minnesota > Hi folks: > > I've got to move out of my storage space in Oakland, CA this month. I've > been saving my Apple ][ gear and software for years. I'd like to find a home > for it -- it's like a train set with all the accessories. This is killing me > already just posting this message. > > If you have an interest, please let me know ASAP. E-mail or call me at > 415-956-2413. > > -- Roy Zider > > Short list of major items: > > Apple ][ (original) with ROM upgrade to ][+ > Videx keyboard enhancements (with function key strip) > Reset switch (as I recall), other unidentified case switch > External case fan > Language card (bumping memory from 48KB to 64KB) > Microsoft SoftCard (CP/M card) > AppliCard (CP/M card) > > Custom hard carrying case for system unit, drives. > Two floppy drives > SuperSerial card > Axlon Ramdisk 320KB (solid state disk drive) > Davong 10MB external hard drive (nice breadbox enclosure) > Sweet-P plotter (serial interface) > Thermal printer (maybe), paper. > > Boxes of software (Apple and CP/M) incl WordStar > Apple ][ Technical Reference Manuals > Apple ][ manuals (may have some water damage) --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:43:11 -0600 From: James Rice To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org steven wrote: >It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, >Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall >decorations! > >At least I am... > > > Me too. There's a ton of them floating around from the old Mostek fab and TI. James -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:33:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven N. Hirsch" To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, James Rice wrote: > steven wrote: > > >It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, > >Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall > >decorations! > > > > > Me too. There's a ton of them floating around from the old Mostek fab > and TI. In real life, I work for a company which fabs semiconductors. Removing wafers, even defective ones, from the premises without authorization is a swift and sure way to end ones career. Steve --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 03:55:38 -0500 (EST) From: vance@neurotica.com To: Doc Shipley Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: New bounties ($$$) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Interlnk.exe > > and > > Intersvr.exe > > > > I don't remember exactly how to do it. > > > > One of the two programs goes into the config.sys of > > it's computer, and the other is run from a DOS prompt. > > Yup. Intersrv (sp?) runs from config.sys. > It's not too difficult, but I highly recommend a parallel link if both > computers have bidirectional ports. It's a ton faster. I'm pretty sure it's INTERLNK that runs in CONFIG.SYS and INTERSVR runs on command-line. Peace... Sridhar --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:51:06 +0000 From: John Honniball Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Witchy wrote: >>Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for >>the ICL OPD >>and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? I have one, but not a spare! :-( It's in an ICL One Per Desk, and of course is capable of pulse-dialling only. Have you considered repairing the one you've got? > I've got a spare but I don't think it's very well if you consider the state > of the motherboard: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG Has someone tried to desolder the chips? The damage looks like it's consistently opposite the pin 1 end of all the DIL parts. I'm sure we could work out what's missing if you want to attempt replacements. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel Organization: None To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: HP41 problem.. Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 12:20:56 +0100 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org My (unexpanded) HP41c developed a strange problem... It still knows how to do the maths, but any value stored inside a register gets lost : i.e. 1234 STO 12, RCL 12 yields 0.000.... Any pointers ( also pointers to a more suitable group ? ) Jos Dreesen --__--__-- Message: 9 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: PDP-11/34 Progress Report To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 19:00:01 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Learned: If you plug in a G727A bus grant card backwards, the processor will > not halt. :-) Mainly because the grant chain is then open, so the M9302 terminator asserts SACK. This means that the 11/34 can't be halted from the panel (it gets tied up trying to remove the grant that's causing the SACK...) > > To do: My only existing cable that plugs into a DL11-W is for 20mA current > loop. I have a current loop VT52 that I haven't yet tested. I'll see if I > can do that tomorrow. After all, it would be nice to know if the register > printout is actually occurring. Almost all DL11-Ws have the RS232 driver/receiver chips on them, and if you've got one of the few that haven't. it's not hard to add them (1488 and 1489 IIRC). It's also not hard to make up the RS232 cable. I've done it many times. Let me know if you want to do this and need pinouts, etc. I don't know what test gear you have, but if you have a logic probe, then you could monitor the TX output of the UART (I assume you have the printset). It should blip low (actually a fairly complex pulse train if you have a logic analyser) when it's doing the register printout. That would at least tell you if the unit was working at all. -tony --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jonathan Engdahl" To: Subject: Free Scanning Electron Microscope Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 21:43:57 -0500 Organization: Rockwell Automation Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Free scanning electron microscope to whoever wants to come haul it away. It was left by the previous occupant of my lab, and it's blocking the hallway. I want it out of there. There are four main pieces, plus some parts and manuals in boxes. I don't know anything about this, but I will describe it's appearance: - microscope unit - desk high box with precision stainless steel tower, shoulder high - ISI Robinson detector mounted on side - Perkin Elmer gizmo mounted up high - other probes and sample holders sticking out at odd angles - very rocket science - no other name plates visible without moving a lot of stuff - viewing station and analog controls console - name plate: ISI WB-6 - built-in CRT - lots of knobs and buttons - very mission control - Tracor Northern computer - floor standing console a little larger than an ASR-33 - two 5" floppies - card cage inside - Intel 8080 microprocessor - keyboard - no hard drive, don't think it ever had one - separate RGB CRT - a 2' box with lots of wires and tubes coming out of it (vacuum pump?) - a 3~4 gallon tank that looks like it bolts on the side of the tower - a small rack with instrumentation modules in it The date plate on the back of the viewing console says 1985. It was used by our semiconductor quality control department to look at the insides of integrated circuits. Rumor has it that there is a vacuum leak in this somewhere, it probably needs a new gasket. It is already uninstalled and ready to roll away. I found a web page with a picture of a similar unit. Our machine has an very similar viewing console, but we have more stuff mounted on the microscope itself. http://www.optics.arizona.edu/Milster/Labdescriptions/Misc.htm ***NOTE*** This thing has a radiation sign on it (X-rays). Transportation and use is regulated by the Ohio Dept. of Health, Division of Radiology. I understand you need to get a permit to move, own, or operate it. If you are really interested in this, you need to know how to get the required permits. If you are interested I can take some pictures and send them. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl j.r.engdahl@adelphia.net --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:19:32 -0800 From: "Gary P. Apte" To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Info on Dataspeed's products Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Happened to find this thread while searching for old colleagues; thought I would send you some info. I worked as an R&D Engineer at Dataspeed from during 1983-85, and was the principal developer of the Modio software. I left when Lotus purchased Dataspeed, and sadly, my stock options became worthless. With regards to the thread (included below), we were using the sideband on the PBS FM stations. At the time I left, we were airing stock, commodities, and futures data during "market hours", and sports during off-hours. The service was by subscription, and there was a hash algorithm which used the unit's serial number and the subscriber account number to generate the flags which activated various services. If memory serves, the flags were "splattered" across the memory map, e.g. bits in different locations together formed the service byte for a service. Lost contact with the other engineers and staff. One engineer is installing Internet in churches in Korea; one of the co-founders owned a sports bar in Pacifica, CA. But all this is old info. I still do have a framed Quotrek on my office wall ! Pass on this info as you deem fit. Gary Apte It's my understanding (infamously unreliable) that Lotus Signal was descended from DataSpeed's Modio which was descended from DataSpeed's Quotrek which dates back as far as 1981. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:35 Subject: Re: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER > I would be really curious to know how this thing works (or worked if the > service is no longer available.) The disks I have are for the PC or AT > and are on 5 1/4" floppies (probably 360K). I'll copy them onto a 3 1/2" > disk and bring it with me at the end of the month. If you have a power > supply with yours, what is the polarity (if not AC) and voltage? > > Has anyone on the list actually used one of these things? > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > At 05:31 PM 1/29/03 -0800, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > >Mike, I have what I *think* is the same thing, and it is copyright 1986; > > >he was looking for pre 1984 or so. If you need copies of the software, > > >*assuming* the software I have is good, it won't be a problem. I can > > >bring it to TRW late this month. > > > > > >Anyone know what frequency this works on, and if the supporting > > >transmitter is still on the air? It indicated this was a subscription > > >service, and I would be most interested to know how they enforced that. > > > > > >Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > > > At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > > > > > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > > > > > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > > > > > functioning. User manual would be great. > > > > > > > > I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. > > > > > > > > Lotus FM Receiver > > > > Mine has three ports on the back, antenna via coax F connector, serial DB25 > > thing, and BNC (data out, could ethernet maybe?). > > > > What platform do you have software for, and sure. ;) That will give me a > > good excuse to get my bones out to TRW. > > > > I think this type of device used sidebands of commercial broadcast > > frequencies, but I haven't looked inside, or hooked up an antenna to see > > what happens. > > > > No real guess on the pay/data controls, could be software, could be serial > > number related activation key broadcast in middle of data etc. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 04:55:46 -0600 From: Jeffrey Sharp To: ClassicCmp Lists Subject: PDP-11/34 Progress Report Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I've made some progress with my PDP-11/34. Since last week's PSU corn-fusion, I pulled all the cards, air-dusted them, air-dusted and inspected the backplanes, took an inventory of jumper and DIP switch settings, put a minimal CPU+mem+console card set in, connected the backplanes to the PSU, and turned on the machine. It was a little more complicated than that, but I've got what seems to be a working 11/34 in my living room. Learned: As I had mentioned previously, my M9312 had a strange start address dialed into its DIP switches by one of the previous owners. That has to be a mistake. When the machine boots, it immediately halts. If I manually start the processor at the correct address for the console emulator, I get a steady run light. I do not have a console terminal attached yet. Learned: A previous owner had a rocker-style DIP switch block on the console DL11-W set backwards (i.e. one's complement of the correct setting). The DL11-W was being configured with the wrong interrupt vector. Learned: If you plug in a G727A bus grant card backwards, the processor will not halt. :-) To do: My only existing cable that plugs into a DL11-W is for 20mA current loop. I have a current loop VT52 that I haven't yet tested. I'll see if I can do that tomorrow. After all, it would be nice to know if the register printout is actually occurring. It's so late it's early; therefore, I should go to bed. Tomorrow I'll run some test programs! -- Jeffrey Sharp --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 09:17:29 -0800 (PST) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: Free Scanning Electron Microscope To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --- Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > Free scanning electron microscope to whoever will come haul it away. I'm interested. Do you have any hints on how to start the permit process? Thanks, -ethan --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Fred deBros" To: Subject: vs3100m38 single user boot???. Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:34:07 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Can I boot Netbsd1.5 or 4.3bsd into single user from the vs3100 bios? Whats the cmd? Boot dka100/1 Or set boot dka100 and then b/1? Why? I need to crack the root password of course. fred --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Robert F. Schaefer" To: Subject: Re: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 07:33:15 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:55 PM Subject: Re: Locating older systems & parts... (was: RE: making disk images) > >Except the dumpster is private property. Theft pure and simple, in the eyes > >of the law. > > I'm not a lawyer, but this might be a regional opinion. I know the cops > around here at least don't consider it private property unless A: the > owner of the land chooses to press charges, or B: the property is some > how restricted access or not normally public access. Cops have a lot of leeway in what they enforce, for good or for bad (sometimes common sense _does_ prevail!), but ISTR the owner always has the option of pressing charges. The cops might not care if they drove past and saw you, probably wouldn't as it's a frequent passtime of many, but if the owners called 'em... > > So for example, the dumpster I raided the other day, it was in the > parking lot of a publically accessable and open building (a gym, a > realtor, and a weight clinic), so the police wouldn't consider that > private property unless the owner of the land (unlikely to be any of the > tenants) choose to press tresspassing charges. I'd say `wouldn't feel the need ot enforce the law' as opposed to `wouldn't consider that private property'. If you're drunk and making a mess, tresspassing would probably come up even if nobody on site complained. > > But, the dumpster behind the local good will, probably WOULD be > considered that by the police, because it is in the back parking lot of > the building (which is not open for customer parking, its only available > to the public when they are dropping things off), AND, the entire lot is > chained off when the store is closed. Definintly have to be an in-and-out job here! > > > And of course curbside garbage is always open season around here. The > only time the cops hassle you on that is if you make a mess. But good > garbage pickers always make sure they clean up after themselves. Yah. I live close to OSU campus, in the fall when the kids move out, the pickings are *fabulous*. Peaseas, small electronics, clothes, leather coats, RK05s (honest, a pair of 'em!), all kinds of good stuff. We take everything that isn't broken, ripped or damaged, and whatever we don't end up wanting goes to goodwill. > > -chris Bob --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Witchy" To: , Subject: RE: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:41:36 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 07 March 2003 22:53 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free DEC MINC-11 in NW England - rescued! > > As you've probably discovered by now, the top connectors on the MINC > modules are for user I/O. The DAC outputs (and other I/O lines) are > there, for example. So presumably this was a connector for the user's > experiment. Oh aye, definitely. It just would've been nice to know what it was plugged into in the first place, but there's no point asking the bloke I got it from 'cos he just received it from a friend and stuck it in his workshop where it sat ever since. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:28:18 -0800 From: "Burke, Richard P." Organization: RPB Information Services To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Using a PS/2 Mouse on the GRiD 1755 Keyboard Port Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Greetings everyone, Does anybody know how to use a PS/2 mouse on the keyboard port of a GRiD 1755/486 SLC Laptop? The manual says that the port will not support a PS/2 mouse, but I figure someone has developed a driver by now. Any clues? Thanks. Richard P. Burke Portland OR --__--__-- Message: 18 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: HP41 problem.. To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 23:40:49 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Jos, > > > You have a bad Data Storage IC. Depending on which version board > is in your 41 it may have from 1 to 4 DS ICs but they are custom built Didn't some HP41s haev 5 RAM (Data Storage) ICs? Each one 16 registers long (one for the 'status registers', 4 for the 64 user registers? > ICs made by HP specificly for the HP 41 so you'll never find one. Time A trick that works when you have a CV with one of the 'extra' DS chips failed (that's to say one of chips that hold registers after the first 64), is to crack open a single memory module (which are really common!), then extract the 'PCB' and wire it inside the 41, in place of the bad IC. Solder the B3 and B4 lines to put it at the right address. Yes, it's a kludge, but it works. And alas it's not applicable in this case. > to find another 41 for parts. There are plenty of htem out there that > have broken displays, bad power supply ICs and/or corroded battery > terminals. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I don't think I've ever seen a bad PSU chip in a 41. Bad CPUs I've had, though. Damaged battery contacts can be kludged over with a bit of care, so that's not a reason to regard a 41 as a 'parts' machine... -tony --__--__-- Message: 19 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:35:03 -0500 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Michael Subject: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Howdy all, I have 4 DecServer 200/MC and 28 (yes twenty-eight) DecServer 300 to give to anyone who is willing to pick them up in the upper valley region (Plainfield, NH to be exact, close to Darthmouth U/Hanover, NH) *OR* close to Harvard Square in Cambridge, MA. The units are in Plainfield right now.. I'll be in Cambridge from March 19th through around the 26th. I'm not willing to ship these to due to the quantity involved. Hope someone can give the DecServers a home.. -- Michael lion@apocalypse.org --__--__-- Message: 20 From: "stu" To: Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:47:08 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hi all, I have an OPD, believed working, without monitor, and has a variety of pods and the phone handset. All good condition and even manuals :) Free to OPD fanatic, prefer collect. (uk NW) Stu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: ; Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:43 PM Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > > Sent: 07 March 2003 15:17 > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > > Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for > > the ICL OPD > > and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? > > I've got a spare but I don't think it's very well if you consider the state > of the motherboard: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG > > The telephony module has a bit of masking tape on it containing the words > 'faulty' so I guess that gives the game away somewhat :) > > > Willing to pay postage from wherever, and maybe 75p & a packet of rolos > > (aka comp.sys.sinclair standard purchase price) as well. > > Hasn't it been upped to 85p and a packet of rolos to take inflation into > account? (inflated rolos? Mmm :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 21 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:26:10 -0500 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Mail List Subject: Project Parts? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Anyone recognize the bus type these go to? Might be good project parts? 5 Mupac Breadboard Prototype Cards NEW VME ?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403917114&category=36327 They're definitely not like any VME I've ever seen. --__--__-- Message: 22 Subject: Tandy 1000 EX; Commodore 64 + 1541? floppy To: cctech@classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 17:58:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Krten" Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Saw these at the local junkyard; any interest? Tandy 1000 EX Commodore 64 with 1541(?) 5.25" floppy drive Condition unknown. If there's anyone who's interested, please let me know and I'll be happy to pick them up for you. Let me know what your maximum price is (there was no price marked). + S/H (VISA/MC through my consulting company just to keep things simple). Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com --__--__-- Message: 23 From: "Stuart Johnson" To: Subject: Re: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:23:56 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kotaska" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more > I live nearby and may be interested in some of these free goodies if they are > still around. I just joined the group so can you contact me? Thanks. > Bill > Subject: Free Computers in St. Louis: PCjr, Apple IIGS and more > > you are able to stop by and feel like geeking out I have 300ish computers in > the basement including an Atari 1400XL with 1090XL box, Altair 8800, IMSAI > 8080, PET 2001 and others that you might like to check out. > > Nick That is too bad about the shipping; I understand totally as I am disabled and shipping something is a major pain unless I want to pay extra to have it picked up. For that matter, boxing something up or unpacking stuff isn't a lot of fun for me with my bad back, etc. Like my mom told me, I should never have ridden that motorcycle in traffic! I really would like to have a fully working Apple II /GS system. I've been thinking about building a 65816 SBC and the Apple would make a nice development environment for it as well as being a classic computer. If someone has one to get rid of or sell reasonably, feel free to let me know off-list. Stuart Johnson --__--__-- Message: 24 From: "Stuart Johnson" To: Subject: Re: New To List and PDP8 Question Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:30:18 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kotaska" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 5:42 PM Subject: New To List and PDP8 Question > Hello, > I am new to this group but have been reading the posts occasionally before > finally joining. The site comes up alot when searching for info on old > machines. I am interested in any type of old computer especially the single >Anyone seen this before? > > Thanks all, > Bill Bill, Welcome to the list. I looked at you site and your 4004/4040 project and it is very nice! Your web site is well organized and easy to navigate. One of these days I'm going to document some of my toys and build a site to display them. At least, I keep telling myself that :-) Stuart Johnson --__--__-- Message: 25 Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 21:54:58 -0500 From: "Richard A. Cini" Subject: IDing IBM Floppy Drive Parts To: "CCTech (E-mail)" Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hello, all: I got a couple of IBM-labeled Tandon drives and a MPI/Control Data drive. The Tandon drive is a standard TM100-2A and the CD drive has the following ID#s -- Part 77711801, IBM Part# 1502060. I'm trying to recycle these in my N* (double density setup). The jumper area is unlabeled on these drives, as is the terminator spot. On the Tandon drive, I found a TRW IC near the floppy connector...it has a designation "516-3-151G"...this seems to be the terminator. Can anyone confirm the placement of the terminator and the jumper block pinout for both drives? Any help appreciated. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ --__--__-- Message: 26 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 22:57:51 -0800 (PST) From: Don Maslin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: IDing IBM Floppy Drive Parts Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > I got a couple of IBM-labeled Tandon drives and a MPI/Control Data drive. > The Tandon drive is a standard TM100-2A and the CD drive has the following > ID#s -- Part 77711801, IBM Part# 1502060. > > I'm trying to recycle these in my N* (double density setup). The jumper > area is unlabeled on these drives, as is the terminator spot. On the Tandon > drive, I found a TRW IC near the floppy connector...it has a designation > "516-3-151G"...this seems to be the terminator. > > Can anyone confirm the placement of the terminator and the jumper block > pinout for both drives? Any help appreciated. Rich, the terminator sounds right. One that I have differs only in a -1- vice your -3-. It is in position 2F nearest to the card edge connector. The programmable shunt in position 1E is as follows: 1 O HS NOT USED O 16 2 O DS0 O 15 3 O DS1 O 14 4 O DS2 O 13 5 O DS3 O 12 6 O MX O 11 7 O SPARE O 10 8 O HM NOT USED O 9 - don > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ --__--__-- Message: 27 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 06:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Dave Brown wrote: > Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know > what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an > EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? > I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as > partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were > called 'computerphones' down here. About the only useful function they had > was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. They were just a year > or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs > and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. Are these actual computers or just dumb terminals with a telephone built-in? I have a Northern Telecom unit like this. It's a smaller terminal with a phone handset and keypad on the base. A keyboard tray pulls out of the bottom of the base. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 28 Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 15:02:47 +0000 From: John Honniball Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Are these actual computers or just dumb terminals with a telephone > built-in? They're real 68008 computers, based on the Sinclair QL design. The power supply (in the screen) is always on, at least in part, and the computer can be set up to auto-answer. The application software in ROM is all communication-centred, with things like dialling directories and (I think) a terminal emulator. Due to UK telecom regulations at the time of release, it wasn't able to act as a telephone answering machine, though. That was a function that only British Telecom were allowed to provide. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk --__--__-- Message: 29 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 09:21:02 -0800 (PST) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: Re: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --- Michael wrote: > Howdy all, > > I have 4 DecServer 200/MC and 28 (yes twenty-eight) DecServer 300 to give > to anyone who is willing to pick them up in the upper valley region > (Plainfield, NH to be exact, close to Darthmouth U/Hanover, NH) *OR* > close to Harvard Square in Cambridge, MA. Being in Ohio, pickup is not an option, but if any list members who _do_ show up to collect them in person are willing to ship Ohio, please write me off-list and let's make arrangements. I would be interested in one or two 300s, depending on shipping cost to 43017. Thanks, -ethan --__--__-- Message: 30 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:28:17 +0100 (CET) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Being in Ohio, pickup is not an option, but if any list members who > _do_ show up to collect them in person are willing to ship Ohio, please > write me off-list and let's make arrangements. Ethen (and everyone else who is interested), I am securing the beasties, with the help from Megan, as she's near there and can pick em up. From her's, I was planning on shipping some of it to Europe (where I am right now) and store the rest in my office in Calif. If anyone wants some of this, lemme know off-list. --f --__--__-- Message: 31 From: "Steve Jones" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 12:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Dave Wilson writes: . > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These > are much more accessible for research and the interest does not > conflict with those of other people. I think they're interesting, and have considered picking some up when I've seen them. Of course I've only seen them on eBay, and living near Boston I guess my only local source might conceivably be the DEC fab out in (I think) Hudson that got sold to Intel when Palmer gutted the company. Oops, didn't mean to start that thread again! ;^) > Are there other interested people out there? If this site is not > the best for this sort of discussion can you recommend a better > one? I haven't run across anyone systematically collecting wafers. The main question I'd have is, where's the supply? If there's not a large supply of available wafers, how many collectors can there be? Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas are using them as wall decorations or something... --__--__-- Message: 32 From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:23:55 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Steve Jones wrote: > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > are using them as wall decorations or something... The ultimate trophy: Design an IC, make it work on first silicon. Take one of the first wafers and get it sealed or laminated (or whatever). Frame it on the wall, with a metal plate underneath: "This die contains [n] [suchandsuch] devices. The original production run worked flawlessly on first silicon. Design team: [whoever]". My sole aim in life is to take part in the design of a microprocessor, have it run on first silicon and have an entire silicon wafer full of the chips on the wall at home :-) If only VLSI design was as easy as designing a computer :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ --__--__-- Message: 33 Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 11:35:23 -0700 From: ben franchuk To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Philip Pemberton wrote: > The ultimate trophy: Design an IC, make it work on first silicon. Take one > of the first wafers and get it sealed or laminated (or whatever). Frame it > on the wall, with a metal plate underneath: "This die contains [n] > [suchandsuch] devices. The original production run worked flawlessly on > first silicon. Design team: [whoever]". > My sole aim in life is to take part in the design of a microprocessor, have > it run on first silicon and have an entire silicon wafer full of the chips > on the wall at home :-) > If only VLSI design was as easy as designing a computer :-) Well TTL is easy to design with. Feel free to take any of my TTL designs (when finished) and cast it into silicon. Note once I get my TTL computer design debuged and built ( the slow and $$$ parts ) I would like to do a VLSI design just to see how good or bad the design is compared to other real chips. Ben. --__--__-- Message: 34 From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 19:00:17 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ben franchuk wrote: > Well TTL is easy to design with. Feel free to take any of my TTL > designs (when finished) and cast it into silicon. Note once I get > my TTL computer design debuged and built ( the slow and $$$ parts ) > I would like to do a VLSI design just to see how good or bad > the design is compared to other real chips. If I had a few Xilinx CPLDs (the ones that can be programmed over a Jtag link) and a programming cable I would. Anyone got some spare XC9500 series devices? PIC16F628 MCUs are fun to play with, but designing my own CPU from scratch sounds like even more fun :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ --__--__-- Message: 35 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 12:44:03 -0800 (PST) From: steven Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall decorations! At least I am... --__--__-- Message: 36 From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:49:09 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org steven wrote: > It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, > Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall > decorations! Hmm... I must remember to try and find a silicon wafer on Ebay... Shame there never seem to be any on Ebay UK... Let's see... If I put the wafer under a microscope and get some photos, I should be able to ID the chip. Then put it in a picture frame complete with label... Hmm... I'd love to track down one of the East German wafers that were mentioned on The Silicon Zoo (www.micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures) - they had some that they extracted a picture of a fox from. With a decent scope and a half-decent digicam (either my Oly or one of the Sony Mavica cameras I have access to) I should be able to get some pretty decent pictures. Picture this - a wafer with all the silicon "doodles" or "creatures" printed off underneath, complete with a "This die contains..." label... Hmm... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ --__--__-- Message: 37 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 14:59:32 -0800 From: "Zane H. Healy" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > are using them as wall decorations or something... I think the only wafer's I've seen out in the wild are some wafers from Tektronix. Back in the 70's when I was in school someone from Tektronix visited us, and everyone got a wafer in a little plastic wafer holder. I know I've still got mine, I'm just not sure where it's at, it's all of about 2 1/2". Zane --__--__-- Message: 38 Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 19:33:01 -0500 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Roger Merchberger Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org At 18:33 03/09/2003 -0500, Steven N. Hirsch wrote: >On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, James Rice wrote: > > > steven wrote: > > > > >It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, > > >Oregon, and Texas are using wafers as wall > > >decorations! > > > > > > > > Me too. There's a ton of them floating around from the old Mostek fab > > and TI. > >In real life, I work for a company which fabs semiconductors. Removing >wafers, even defective ones, from the premises without authorization is >a swift and sure way to end ones career. On a slightly different take... How would one get permission to remove a few defective wafers solely for the sake of collectibility? Not many fabs up here in northern Michigan -- on the Canadian border... ;-) Is ePay my only hope of acquiring one??? Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger --__--__-- Message: 39 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:41:24 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org At 22:43 07/03/2003, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > > Sent: 07 March 2003 15:17 > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > > Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for > > the ICL OPD > > and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? > >I've got a spare but I don't think it's very well if you consider the state >of the motherboard: > >http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/DSCF2592.JPG Ouch: Was someone trying out a fancy new laser cutting tool, perchance? >The telephony module has a bit of masking tape on it containing the words >'faulty' so I guess that gives the game away somewhat :) Hmmm, quite... Having said that, maybe the telephony is OK, but the main beastie is shot. I'd be quite happy to test the telephony module in my (otherwise fine) OPD... > > Willing to pay postage from wherever, and maybe 75p & a packet of rolos > > (aka comp.sys.sinclair standard purchase price) as well. > >Hasn't it been upped to 85p and a packet of rolos to take inflation into >account? (inflated rolos? Mmm :) Not according to pictures of their last meet in London, but maybe no-one told them yet :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --__--__-- Message: 40 From: "John Allain" To: Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 19:49:53 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >> It's true, fab-rich places in Arizona, California, >> Oregon, and Texas... Silicon Valley is the obvious choice for an outlet of these. Anyone who is a regular customer of "The Foothill" should speak up on list. I patronized them, a long time back, for just over two years... got some wafers, and, some large chunks of the raw Silicon ingots too. MIT flea will have wafers too, but at about 1/3 the frequency. John A. --__--__-- Message: 41 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:43:43 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org At 10:51 08/03/2003, you wrote: >Witchy wrote: >>>Does anyone have a spare (working) UK-spec telephony module for >>>the ICL OPD >>>and/or Merlin Tonto that they're willing to part with? > >I have one, but not a spare! :-( > >It's in an ICL One Per Desk, and of course is capable of pulse-dialling >only. Have you considered repairing the one you've got? Possibly, but I've absolutely no idea where to start... I'm guessing that the fault is somewhere in the telephone side, as the computer side works just fine. Also, it's capable of taking incoming calls (shame CLID didn't exist when the OPD was around), and if something else dials, it can latch into outgoing calls without any problems. IIRC, the pulse dial side dies at the same time as the tone dial. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --__--__-- Message: 42 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:49:31 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org At 09:27 09/03/2003, Dave Brown wrote: >Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know >what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an >EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? I'm not really sure. It's entirely possible that there's very little to no difference between the modules, but the UK versions would have had to pass the extraordinarily strict BABT approval process - which was very expensive, and essential if you wanted your kit to be "BABT approved" and therefore legal to use on the UK 'phone system. Also, there was some fairly hefty licencing restrictions, e.g. in the front of the OPD manual it states the functions it's been licenced for. >I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as >partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were >called 'computerphones' down here. I'd be willing to try an NZ module, if it's got standard BT-like connector jacks on the back of it (same type as used by Sinclair on the QL - did he get a job-lot of sockets to go with the OPD plugs, I wonder?). I know bugger all about the NZ 'phone system, but as my NZ cousin is currently over here, I'll ask him tomorrow. > About the only useful function they had >was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. Definitely; the 3-alphanumeric "short code" is also a staggeringly useful thing. In fact, I've decided to use the OPD as my main telephone, if I can get a reliable telephony module for it. > They were just a year >or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs >and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. Much like the QL, really. Also, one shouldn't underestimate the marketing clout IBM had when their early PC's were coming out; really, did anyone stand a chance against them? -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --__--__-- Message: 43 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:54:56 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org At 14:18 09/03/2003, you wrote: >On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Dave Brown wrote: > > > Maybe-maybe not. That 'UK spec' bit is what I'm curious about. Do you know > > what details will be different in other versions (but this would only be an > > EPROM change wouldn't it?) --as in that for use in NZ? > > I have a number of these things -both complete and working, as well as > > partly ratted for spares (including some telephony modules)- they were > > called 'computerphones' down here. About the only useful function they had > > was the phone directory/dialler which was a winner. They were just a year > > or so too late to ever really catch on in the face of competition from Macs > > and pcs for any serious desktop computer functionality. > >Are these actual computers or just dumb terminals with a telephone >built-in? Your question is already answered, but what the heck... The ICL OPD (One-Per-Desk) and Merlin Tonto (identical machines internally) were a derivative of the Sinclair QL, featuring the addition of a telephone handset, better keyboard, slightly improved microdrives (sufficiently improved that they are, apparently, incompatible with QL mdvs; something I've not checked yet), and a much bigger ROM. That ROM contains a telephone directory, and a few other utilities to boot. Add-on ROMs included messaging (I'm unsure as to what that is yet, although mine has it), Psion Xchange (Quill word processor, Easel graphics - well, graphs, Archive database and Abacus spreadsheet). Xchange also featured on the CST Thor[1], and was also ported to the PC, IIRC. The QL suffered along with the original separate packages until its demise. My OPD also has a 3rd-party addon disk interface (which plugs into the ROM pack), which is rather nifty, and a lot more reliable (and faster) than microdrives. The machine itself, however, is quite painfully slow. I'm not entirely sure what they did to it to make it that slow; the QL seems to trot along much more quickly. Maybe ICL just didn't write decent software... [1] BTW, does anyone have a CST Thor (especially if you're willing to part with it). Any make/model considered, working or not. I'll even pay cash[2] for it. I'd /love/ to get my hands on one! [2] What's more, I'll even pay more than 75p[3] & a packet of Rolos! [3] or 85p, counting inflation. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --__--__-- Message: 44 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:58:51 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org At 15:02 09/03/2003, John Honniball wrote: The application software in >ROM is all communication-centred, with things like dialling >directories and (I think) a terminal emulator. Yep, a loadable telephone directory (so you could have different ones on different MDVs), two terminal types (a Prestel & "glass teletype") which would operate over the built-in modem - capable of a whopping 1200bps or 600bps half-duplex, and 300bps full duplex; also capable of a 75bps "back channel" at 1200/600 speeds. >Due to UK telecom regulations at the time of release, it wasn't >able to act as a telephone answering machine, though. That was >a function that only British Telecom were allowed to provide. It does have a really nasty voice synthesizer built into it, though, so it will take a call unattended, and play the pre-recorded messages. It lacks the ability to say things like "Good morning" though... I think it's also limited to a single auto-answer setting, which can be set to automatically come on between certain times, and (possibly) overridden. I've yet to experiment with that side of it. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --__--__-- Message: 45 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:33:31 -0500 (EST) From: Megan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Free DecServer 200 & 300's for local pickup in NH or Cambridge, MA Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Fred wrote: >>On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> Being in Ohio, pickup is not an option, but if any list members who >> _do_ show up to collect them in person are willing to ship Ohio, please >> write me off-list and let's make arrangements. >Ethen (and everyone else who is interested), >I am securing the beasties, with the help from Megan, as she's >near there and can pick em up. From her's, I was planning on >shipping some of it to Europe (where I am right now) and store >the rest in my office in Calif. If anyone wants some of this, >lemme know off-list. Fred - I've asked him about 2 of the 200/MCs and 6 of the 300s. I have yet to hear back from him. Although I'm close to cambridge, I didn't know how many you wanted me to try for. I'm not sure my car or storage place (or my partner) is prepared to handle a great deal of them. I'll do what I can... Megan --__--__-- Message: 46 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:19:53 -0800 From: Al Kossow To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I looked around at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/ and found most of the > hardware docs I would want for my 2113E and 2117F, but didn't really see any > hardware reference docs for a 2100A CPU. The maint manuals are up now under hp/21xx --__--__-- Message: 47 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:56:03 -0600 From: Jeffrey Sharp To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PDP-11/34 Progress Report Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sunday, March 9, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> To do: My only existing cable that plugs into a DL11-W is for 20mA >> current loop. I have a current loop VT52 that I haven't yet tested. I'll >> see if I can do that tomorrow. After all, it would be nice to know if the >> register printout is actually occurring. > > It's also not hard to make up the RS232 cable. I've done it many times. > Let me know if you want to do this and need pinouts, etc. Yes, very easy. But I do have a lonely current loop VT52 that (if it works) desparately wants *something* to send it some bits and bytes to display. How can I turn down a request like that? :-) Maybe I'll build a RS-232 cable for the short term so I can test the machine with a known good console terminal. > I don't know what test gear you have Sadly, all I have is one digital multimeter. It's an eBay cheapo special -- not the bottom of the barrel, but darn close to it. Oh, I also have a Heathkit digital IC tester model IT-7400 that I swiped from a professor's trash pile back in my college days (i.e. 4 months ago). It works. I want to get an oscilloscope soon. I've got other things I need to spend my salary on at the moment, but that might not be too much of a hindrance. My current plan is to put a relatively large portion of my collection (which isn't that large) up for trade and hope for a suitable scope in return. Or maybe I'll sell some of it on eBay and use those proceeds to buy a scope on eBay. About the best thing I have is a MINC-11 (when it rains it pours, eh?), but there are also various PDP-11 parts, two HP-85s, a couple of TRS-80s (M3 and M4), some IBM 5150 PCs, an AT&T 3B2/EXP, a bunch of Sun3s, and some other stuff I can't remember. Sometime soon I'll make a more detailed inventory, take pictures, and formally announce it. I figure all of that stuff combined should (at least) net me one good scope or logic analyzer. -- Jeffrey Sharp --__--__-- Message: 48 From: "Robert F. Schaefer" To: Subject: DECserver 200 hack... Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:45:03 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Found this a few minutes ago. Kinda neat... http://www.vaxman.de/projects/midi/midi200.html Bob --__--__-- Message: 49 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers From: Frank McConnell Date: 09 Mar 2003 19:17:58 -0800 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org "John Allain" wrote: > Silicon Valley is the obvious choice for an outlet of these. > Anyone who is a regular customer of "The Foothill" should > speak up on list. I patronized them, a long time back, for > just over two years... got some wafers, and, some large > chunks of the raw Silicon ingots too. Yes, I saw some wafers there yesterday. Y'all should have spoken up sooner and I might have tried to pick some up for you. Seriously, educate me/us. What's interesting, what would need to be done to care for it through shipping, and what's it worth to you (and I appreciate that the answer to this may not be financial in nature, and it need not be so on my side either!)? More seriously, inexpensive items (say US$1 and under) that don't require a lot of effort on my part can pass easily from my hands to someone else's, and I'm happy to help, especially if it'll help get an interesting story out there to for other folks to enjoy and learn from. As the cost in money, time, and effort goes up, either my interest wanes or I start wanting some return. -Frank McConnell --__--__-- Message: 50 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:01:08 -0800 (PDT) From: Brian Chase To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > Dave Wilson writes: > > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These > > are much more accessible for research and the interest does not > > conflict with those of other people. > > [...] > > I haven't run across anyone systematically collecting wafers. The > main question I'd have is, where's the supply? If there's not a > large supply of available wafers, how many collectors can there be? > > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > are using them as wall decorations or something... The San Jose Tech Museum's gift shop has them for sale at prices that won't break you too badly. IIRC, it was somewhere in the $10-$30 range, depending on their sizes. It looks like they're available for sale online: Of course, you can't get to pick and choose them like you would if you were actually there. When I last visited, they had a variety of wafers available. -brian. --__--__-- Message: 51 From: "Keys" To: Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:26:23 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Keep checking eBay for them as I picked up several there for good prices. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Collecting silicon wafers > On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > > Dave Wilson writes: > > > > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These > > > are much more accessible for research and the interest does not > > > conflict with those of other people. > > > > [...] > > > > I haven't run across anyone systematically collecting wafers. The > > main question I'd have is, where's the supply? If there's not a > > large supply of available wafers, how many collectors can there be? > > > > Having opened my mouth and said that, someone will probably tell > > me that fab-rich places in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Texas > > are using them as wall decorations or something... > > The San Jose Tech Museum's gift shop has them for sale at prices that > won't break you too badly. IIRC, it was somewhere in the $10-$30 range, > depending on their sizes. It looks like they're available for sale > online: > > Of course, you can't get to pick and choose them like you would if you > were actually there. When I last visited, they had a variety of wafers > available. > > -brian. --__--__-- Message: 52 From: "Glen S" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP 2100A hardware reference docs? Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 21:22:18 -0800 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Cool. Thanks a lot. I just downloaded these and that should be a big help in checking out the 2100A and hopefully getting it running. > > I looked around at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/ and found most of >the > > hardware docs I would want for my 2113E and 2117F, but didn't really see >any > > hardware reference docs for a 2100A CPU. > >The maint manuals are up now under hp/21xx _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail End of cctech Digest From JCanfield at emaglink.com Tue Mar 11 21:52:07 2003 From: JCanfield at emaglink.com (Canfield, Jean) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: HP 7905/7906 data Message-ID: Jay, I am looking for a way to read an HP 7905/7906 data disk. Someone gave me your contact information. Could you, would you be able to help me? Thanks, Jean Canfield 404-995-6081 From stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net Tue Mar 11 21:52:24 2003 From: stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted Message-ID: <0e3701c2e827$993e9820$0200a8c0@cosmo> I'm looking for a manual that goes with a HP 5036A Microprocessor Lab (8085 trainer in a briefcase). The manual is "Practical Microprocessors" and was published by HP some years ago. I am not looking for a museum piece, just a manual to use with the Lab. I am also interested in accessories and information about the 5036A. If anyone has such a manual to sell or trade, please contact me off list. Thanks, Stuart Johnson From fdebros at verizon.net Tue Mar 11 21:52:40 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407CA30@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <000001c2e844$1396df30$6401a8c0@fred> Specifically: Does anybody have the pinout to the db25 (not a db 15!) plug of the infoserver 150 model SEACD - AX - A01 in the back? The caption above the plug shows a square with an up-arrow in it. Monitor? Combo kbd/mouse/monitor? And the S1 switch nearby that switches regular vs3100's between serial and terminal console mode. Does that mean it has a built-in framebuffer for at least b/w like all vs3100's and can serve as a console? There are three mmj plugs in the back, named 1,2 and 3 with horiz arrows to left and right: why three serial consoles? All simultaneous? And two scsi terminators. Two scsi buses? So where does the kbd go??? Then it has this bulging cover that hides the MAC address of the serial interface. Otherwise the box looks just like a vs3100 to me, so it should run netbsd1.6. BTW for those who play with it: Ping works on a vs3100m38, although it does not return the pkt count to console, so it looks broken....hate dead dinosaurs! Try telnet instead and bingo! Fred -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen Sent: Friday, 07 February, 2003 12.09 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: DEC InfoServer ? All, is anyone here familiar with installing and operating Info Servers? I got word that they are pretty much the same as a stripped-down MV3100, so installing the InfoServer CD on such a machine (equipped with CD drive) should get us the desired result... Pse contact me off-list if you can help, and I'll summarize here, later. Thx, Fred From bkotaska at earthlink.net Tue Mar 11 22:21:00 2003 From: bkotaska at earthlink.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 was: New To List and PDP8 Question References: <200303101726.JAA06242@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <011f01c2e84c$83daac60$0200a8c0@ath700> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Intel 4004 was: New To List and PDP8 Question > > I have a SIM4 but mine doesn't have the nice LCD read out that > yours has. I wrote an assembler as well. Mine is single pass > but I can still do forward references by having the lables self > resolve them selves as their location is assigned. I also have > a simualtor that I wrote. It is built around the SIM4 board. > Wow Dwight, a real SIM4. Is it the -01 or -02. I think the main difference was the number of PROMs it would hold. Do you also have the box with the mating connectors? I think it was used to interface the SIM4 to another board for programming 1702s. Oh what THESE would fetch on eBay. All joking aside, I hope you wouldn't do that. I know I couldn't. > > Most 4004 systems have a lot of hardware dependencies since > not all used things like the 4002's for RAMs or the normal > I/O methods. > I toyed with the idea of making a SIM4 clone but I would have had to do too many part substitutions. It wouldn't have been much of a clone. And I still wouldn't have been able to execute out of RAM. Right? Bill From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Mar 11 23:23:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay Message-ID: That item went for $880.00. Seems like a lot to spend. >I contacted Stephen last night to see what he was up to. As it turns >out, the kit on eBay is one of his that the buyer probably gave up on or >never had time for. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Mar 11 23:34:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, March 10, 2003, at 11:01 AM, William Donzelli wrote: >> I think this one does have the ability to do a loop. >> The rotating wheels constitutes a three level loop. >> In fact, it is hard wired to loop. >> Lets see: >> >> a. Changing wheels and order changes stored program >> b. Hitting different keys causes conditional change of output >> c. Wheels generate nested loops >> d. Keyboard and display form I/O >> >> It looks like it meets your list. > > SSSSTTTTRRREEETTTCCCHHH....... > > I should point out the the four way switch I use to turn on the lights > in > my kitchen folllow the basic ideas of the Enigma. Do I live in a a > computer? Perhaps you only use a computer to control your lights? : ^ ) > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Wed Mar 12 04:12:00 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Message-ID: On 10 March at 10:10am, Witchy wrote: [Dialling] > I've been told they do tone dialling too, based on the unsupported DIP > switches in the telephony module. Haven't tried it though; > all of my OPDs > are downstairs in boxes. The DIP switches aren't unsupported, they're actually documented... [Voice answering] > I'm sure it can respond to different numbers with different > messages though, Not different numbers, Caller ID simply didn't exist (probably anywhere in the world) in 1986. I think (not tried this) that it can respond with a different message on each line, and it can change messages depending on the time of day - but not day of week... > also it *can* say good morning, as well as things like 'I'm It definitely can't say "good morning", as "good" isn't in the vocabulary :) > away getting > head with my secretary on holiday' :) There was a competition Hehe - I must try that. > on radio not > so long back (Chris Moyles or Scrawn&Lard on Radio1 IIRC) where people > actually recorded their OPDs saying rude things, so I just > *had* to have a > go myself....hehe..... Erm, "not so long ago"? Sort of like 1987, maybe? [Testing the telephony module] > Be easier if I tested it up here first. Just got to dig out > the low-res > monitor from its hiding place....the hi-res one is too high up and > underneath too much other stuff for me to easily get! Humph. I just knew I wasn't going to get a free module that easily ;) What's this about a hi-res monitor? I assume you mean a larger one than the 9" B&W which seems to be the norm for these machines? Is it colour? I'd like to get a pin-out of the monitor/power connector - I'm not sure if it's in any of the manuals I've got. > I don't recall either of mine being any slower than the QL, though it's a > few months since I last played with one. I just wish I had some > documentation for 'em. I can scan mine in if you like. I don't believe I'm doing anything on Sunday yet... From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Wed Mar 12 04:19:00 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Sprokholt [mailto:r.sprokholt@chello.nl] > Sent: 11 March 2003 6:01 pm > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > > > [2] What's more, I'll even pay more than 75p[3] & a packet of Rolos! > > > > [3] or 85p, counting inflation. > > > > > > I paid 85 pounds for a Merlin Tonto a few weeks ago. Plus 30 pounds > postage. Inflation is high in the Netherlands. Ah, but I only want a little bit of it... ;) > I will not sell my Tonto. Nor I. In fact, I'm actually going to use it, just as soon as I've sorted the dialling side out. > In fact I'm looking for more > sinclair-clones. > I already got a CIP03, Robik, HC91, HC2000, Jet, Sintez II, 2 > Olimpiks, I think I can honestly say, I've not heard of *any* of them! > TC2048 and TS2068. Or them! > A russian spectr 48 is on it's way. Ah, I've heard of that one, I think. Are they all ZX80/81/Spectrum clones, or are there any other QL-based ones? From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Wed Mar 12 04:24:00 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto Message-ID: On 10 March 2003 10:20 am, Witchy wrote: > The only way of doing data transfer > from machine to > machine is serially, and remember the serial port on the OPD is for a > printer only so is uni-directional. Actually, I may be able to transfer via floppy disk, as I have an OPD disk interface (How cool is that? I even have the manuals!) - it plugs into the ROM pack. The one unknown at this time is what format the floppy is written in; but since it at least takes the same drives as the QL, it should be possible to read one way or another. Unlike Commodore's damn GCR format. Cheers, Ade. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Mar 12 05:22:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E6F2657.17797.9A78CC81@localhost> > 1. Stamps are printed in vast numbers > 2. They are used and, in most cases, eventually destroyed > 3. They are difficult to forge (convincingly) > 4. Most are virtually worthless > 5. A few a almost priceless > 6. Many are beautiful > 7. They have an inherent research interest - printing varieties, > flaws, rarities, historical interest etc. > 8. They are (usually) considered most valuable unused and even > more valuable in an unbroken sheet. > [...] The whole idea of wafer collecting got something to it, although I think the stamp reference is a bit far fetched. Gruss H. BTW: I realy love wafer masks ... they are just a bit hard to find. So if one of y'all (sp?) got some laying around ... -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Mar 12 05:23:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: References: <3E6E3782.30240.96D3DD73@localhost> Message-ID: <3E6F2657.18401.9A78CC91@localhost> > > > I might be able to use the 8088 docs. The V20 is *supposed* to be a drop-in > > > replacement, but IIRC it needed some (minor) BIOS alterations to get it to > > > work properly in PCs when the 8088 was swapped with a V20. > > Not that I know off. The V20 did behave exactly like an 8088. > > At some point I did use them on every PC and XT I could. The > > additional speed was quite cheap. The only time I couldn't > > use a V30 was in the Siemens PC-MX, a small 8086 Unix box. > Besides, it wasn't a completely Bug-For-Bug replacement. NEC failed to > implement some of the quirks of the 8088. For example, if an interrupt > occurred during the execution of an instruction with a double prefix, the > NEC would continue, but the intel would drop one of the prefixes when > resuming. > REP MOVSB DS:[SI] DS:[DI] > will resume with a V20, but with an 8088 will only do one more rep after > an interrupt. Well, that's eactly the 186 behaviour. Now considering that the timeing was also exactly like 186 (or real mode 286), and the instruction set is the same, I still think NEC just used the 186 (188) core as template for the V20/V30 - Considering that V40/50 where like the 186 with integrated perhipherals, you may considere it as a two step knock off... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cbajpai at attbi.com Wed Mar 12 06:08:01 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c2e88f$982dc920$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> What was he selling these kits for originally? $200 max? This is just a crazy price. Now I wish I "invested" in these kits...brings a better ROI than any of my stocks! -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Glen S Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:20 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay That item went for $880.00. Seems like a lot to spend. >I contacted Stephen last night to see what he was up to. As it turns >out, the kit on eBay is one of his that the buyer probably gave up on or >never had time for. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From cbajpai at attbi.com Wed Mar 12 06:12:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Looking for system software that came with Arche Rival ($$$) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c2e890$2a746140$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I used to work for leading edge computer back in the late 80's. Arche was a couple of guys that came from Leading Edge. I think we sued them out of existence. What's so interesting about the anti-virus software? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:47 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Cc: Bay Area Computer Collector List Subject: Looking for system software that came with Arche Rival ($$$) I am searching for the system software that came with the Arche Rival computer. This is a 386 PC that came out in 1989. The software that was bundled with it is key, specifically the anti-virus software that was included (called something like "Virus Free"). If anyone has this then please contact me. There is a bounty on this :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From hansp at aconit.org Wed Mar 12 06:56:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Supercomputer on ebay Message-ID: <3E6F2DEF.2000507@aconit.org> Once a million dollar vector-parallel supercomputer for research projects at the Australian National University, this Fujitsu VPP300 is now being auctioned off at eBay. With 13 143MHz vector processors, a fast crossbar interconnect and 14GB of RAM, the four-cabinet machine boasts peak performance taps of 28.6 Gflops. Back in 1996, when the supercomputer was installed at Australia's National University it was the dog's bollocks. Now the ANU's Fujitsu VPP300 is being put out to pasture by that most modern of routes, an auction on eBay . For those wanting to bid : http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3405888342 when I looked it was at 12 AU$ or a tad over US$7. Watch out for the shipping charges though. -- hbp From cbajpai at attbi.com Wed Mar 12 07:06:00 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <3E6F2657.17797.9A78CC81@localhost> Message-ID: <000501c2e897$96f77260$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I got to ask this...what's a wafer mask...what's it look like? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Hans Franke Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 6:22 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: collecting silicon wafers > 1. Stamps are printed in vast numbers > 2. They are used and, in most cases, eventually destroyed > 3. They are difficult to forge (convincingly) > 4. Most are virtually worthless > 5. A few a almost priceless > 6. Many are beautiful > 7. They have an inherent research interest - printing varieties, > flaws, rarities, historical interest etc. > 8. They are (usually) considered most valuable unused and even > more valuable in an unbroken sheet. > [...] The whole idea of wafer collecting got something to it, although I think the stamp reference is a bit far fetched. Gruss H. BTW: I realy love wafer masks ... they are just a bit hard to find. So if one of y'all (sp?) got some laying around ... -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Mar 12 08:45:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: FS Items Message-ID: A few more items I've got to offer to the list. I can take Paypal or Check/Money Order for payment. Everything below is $10 + shipping, with discounts for buying multiple items. + 3Com SuperStack HUB 10: 24port 10BaseT Hub, rackmountable. I've got a lot of these available to me. + Panasonic LaserDisc player + Apple Macintosh Plus 1MB - have keyboard and monitor + Sun SparcStation 5, 85MHz, CG6, 32-64MB ram, 2GB HDD + Tatung CompStation LC - A pizzabox Sun Sparcstation LC clone - CG6, have to check how much memory I have available, probably 4GB HDD I might be adding on to this list later. I'm in West Lafayette, IN. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Mar 12 08:50:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0e5001c2e8a6$044c2730$46f8b8ce@impac.com> > That item went for $880.00. Seems like a lot to spend. I'm betting that the high bidder didn't realize the kit was a modern reproduction. The same kit from Stephen will likely run half of the $880 or less. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Mar 12 09:02:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <3E6E35AE.19533.96CCB878@localhost> References: <003701c2e79d$120fc3e0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: Hans wrote: >Wasn't the V20 100% Bus (and thus hardware) compatible >to the 8088 ? I know it was highly compatible, if not completely. The DEC Rainbow could take a V20 replacement for its 8088. The only other required change was to the boot PROM, because the V20 completed a loop faster than the 8088 and would cause trouble (not successfully boot) in the original PROM. The putatative reason to make the switch was for an (approx., off the top of my head) 5-10% speedup in execution. I (think I) can supply details, including the change to the PROM, if anyone is interested. I have not, however, tried the change myself. - Mark From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Mar 12 09:10:01 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <0e5001c2e8a6$044c2730$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: It took a while for some guys on comp.os.cpm to catch on. I lurk there now and then. I was not sure whether they were trolling or truly unaware that there were no original kits, but then someone else clued them in. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Erik S. Klein > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:45 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay > > > > That item went for $880.00. Seems like a lot to spend. > > I'm betting that the high bidder didn't realize the kit was a modern > reproduction. > > The same kit from Stephen will likely run half of the $880 or less. > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Mar 12 09:15:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: dc300 cart tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c2e8aa$0083b0b0$3701a8c0@benchbox> If anyone needs dc300 car tapes, I have about twenty I can afford to lose. My Data General Mini uses them, but since I grafted a 9track deck onto it, the cart unit has not been used. Shipping is all I ask. Regards, Jeff (Technoid@nospam.30below.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of mar van Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:57 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: dc600 Know of anyone who would need dc600 type cartrige tapes? Pics at http://vbilt.com/tape/tape40.jpg Mark From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Mar 12 09:30:01 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005201c2e8ab$6d3f1ea0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> I see that the seller backed off his opening price to an even $10,000. And there are still no bids. I hope this guy pissed everyone off so much that no one bids. On the other hand, I *hate* to see him scrap it. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Mar 12 09:30:21 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0e6501c2e8ab$a964c380$46f8b8ce@impac.com> >It took a while for some guys on comp.os.cpm to catch on. >I lurk there now and then. I was not sure whether they >were trolling or truly unaware that there were no original >kits, but then someone else clued them in. Yeah, I guess the only thing that could be original would be the bare boards. Everything else would just have to be contemporary materials, at best. I'm still guessing that the buyer expected to be purchasing an antique, not a recent creation. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From kth at srv.net Wed Mar 12 10:04:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:14 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer ? References: <000001c2e844$1396df30$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <3E6F6033.9010104@srv.net> Fred deBros wrote: >Specifically: Does anybody have the pinout to the db25 (not a db 15!) >plug of the infoserver 150 model SEACD - AX - A01 in the back? The > Probably a printer port. RS-232 Serial port. (At least if it is like a regular uVax3100). Symbol looks like a box with a triangle in it with a couple of arrows on the bottom. >caption above the plug shows a square with an up-arrow in it. Monitor? >Combo kbd/mouse/monitor? >And the S1 switch nearby that switches regular vs3100's between serial >and terminal console mode. > Not sure off the top of my head what that switch does, but it is there on all 3100/10's. >Does that mean it has a built-in framebuffer for at least b/w like all >vs3100's and can serve as a console? > Not all 3100's had video. I doubt that this one does either. Sounds more like a standard 3100/10. >There are three mmj plugs in the back, named 1,2 and 3 with horiz arrows >to left and right: why three serial consoles? All simultaneous? > Three serial ports (in addition to the printer port, which is also just a standard serial port). Under VMS/BSD/..., these will allow for 4 serial devices to be plugged in (terminals, printers, etc.) It will boot up on one of the MMJ ports (probably either 1 or 3), but it varies from system to system as to which one works. Probably at 9600 baud. >And two scsi terminators. Two scsi buses? > Yup. Plenty of ports for SCSI devices. >So where does the kbd go??? > On the terminal. It depends on what graphic board was in the VaxStation as to what the connector was, but the keyboard connector was usually built into the video cable. >Then it has this bulging cover that hides the MAC address of the serial >interface. > They came with those covers over some of the extra ports. > >Otherwise the box looks just like a vs3100 to me, so it should run >netbsd1.6. BTW for those who play with it: Ping works on a vs3100m38, >although it does not return the pkt count to console, so it looks >broken....hate dead dinosaurs! Try telnet instead and bingo! > > > Sounds like a 3100/10 to me. From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 12 10:05:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <0e6501c2e8ab$a964c380$46f8b8ce@impac.com> References: <0e6501c2e8ab$a964c380$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <20030312160132.PCSW17849.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Wednesday 12 March 2003 10:25, Erik S. Klein wrote: > >It took a while for some guys on comp.os.cpm to catch on. > >I lurk there now and then. I was not sure whether they > >were trolling or truly unaware that there were no original > >kits, but then someone else clued them in. > > Yeah, I guess the only thing that could be original would be the bare > boards. Everything else would just have to be contemporary materials, > at best. > > I'm still guessing that the buyer expected to be purchasing an antique, > not a recent creation. I asked about the kit and the owner did say that it was a new one he had purchased. I guess that not every one asks about the product they are buying. I was expecting the owner to add a note to the ad mentioning that it was a 'NEW' kit. From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Mar 12 10:13:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <0e5001c2e8a6$044c2730$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <3E6F5BEA.1060906@cox.net> I've seen a couple of Stephen's reproductions re-sold on ebay without the proper notice of "reproduction". Last year a completed one sold for $3303.10 on ebay, and the seller deliberately hid the fact that it was a reproduction. He also sold it under a private auction so it would be impossible to email the bidders and let them know. I know this because I emailed the seller, and never received a reply, and then I emailed ebay. They replyed to me, but simply forwarded my emails to the seller and told me, in so many words, that they didn't care and had no intention of forwarding my email to the bidders. -Bryan >I'm betting that the high bidder didn't realize the kit was a modern >reproduction. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Mar 12 10:26:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <0e6501c2e8ab$a964c380$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: I was under the impression (based on previous classiccmp discussions) that the only way to get the bare boards was to use the plans supplied in to etch your own. So how would you define original? Etched from the plans or etched from the plans within some short period of time from the publication date? Or maybe etched from the plans using materials produced at the time of publication? I have a couple of really old Radio Shack board etching kits around somewhere. I'm sure that I bought them before 1980. Could I turn them into gold by using them to etch a couple of Mark-8 boards? ;-) (smiley for the humor impared) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Erik S. Klein > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:26 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay > > > >It took a while for some guys on comp.os.cpm to catch on. > >I lurk there now and then. I was not sure whether they > >were trolling or truly unaware that there were no original > >kits, but then someone else clued them in. > > Yeah, I guess the only thing that could be original would be the bare > boards. Everything else would just have to be contemporary materials, > at best. > > I'm still guessing that the buyer expected to be purchasing an antique, > not a recent creation. > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 10:30:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <0e6501c2e8ab$a964c380$46f8b8ce@impac.com> <20030312160132.PCSW17849.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <00f801c2e8b4$21b061c0$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Mike" > I asked about the kit and the owner did say that it was a new one he had > purchased. I guess that not every one asks about the product they are > buying. I was expecting the owner to add a note to the ad mentioning that it > was a 'NEW' kit. It's a little hard to quantify 'NEW' for these Mark-8's... while the boards were made recently, they were made from the original published patterns, and are not plated-through or otherwise 'newer' than the originals except in the age of the raw materials. The Radio-Electronics articles have all the layouts, and some number of Mark-8's were home etched, or even wire-wrapped, so it's not like there's One True Source. When I built mine (from Steve Gabaly's boards), I was able to find most of the TTL parts in 70's vintage. So how 'new' is it? From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 10:32:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay Message-ID: <010601c2e8b4$8c3c8910$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Jim Kearney" > there's One True Source. When I built mine (from Steve Gabaly's boards), I > was > able to find most of the TTL parts in 70's vintage. So how 'new' is it? p.s. but that's not to say that I wouldn't be clear about its construction if I put it up for sale, of course. That would be definitely be misrepresentation, even by omission. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 10:33:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <0e6501c2e8ab$a964c380$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > >It took a while for some guys on comp.os.cpm to catch on. > >I lurk there now and then. I was not sure whether they > >were trolling or truly unaware that there were no original > >kits, but then someone else clued them in. > > Yeah, I guess the only thing that could be original would be the bare > boards. Everything else would just have to be contemporary materials, > at best. > > I'm still guessing that the buyer expected to be purchasing an antique, > not a recent creation. At $880 I would *hope* I was buying an original. That is just scathingly obscene for a modern day replica kit. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 10:34:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <20030312160132.PCSW17849.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Mike wrote: > I asked about the kit and the owner did say that it was a new one he had > purchased. I guess that not every one asks about the product they are > buying. I was expecting the owner to add a note to the ad mentioning that it > was a 'NEW' kit. It would have been the ethical thing to do but that's for the buyer to deal with now. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 10:48:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <010601c2e8b4$8c3c8910$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: Guys, honestly. If the person is happy paying $880 or $3300 dollars for something then shake their hand and congratulate them. Just because some of us wouldn't pay that much for it doesn't mean that it doesn't make THEM happy. Geez. Sorry. Beat me with a stick ( a flaming one) Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 11:29 AM, Jim Kearney wrote: >> From: "Jim Kearney" >> there's One True Source. When I built mine (from Steve Gabaly's >> boards), I >> was >> able to find most of the TTL parts in 70's vintage. So how 'new' is >> it? > > p.s. but that's not to say that I wouldn't be clear about its > construction > if I put it up for sale, of course. That would be definitely be > misrepresentation, > even by omission. From msell at ontimesupport.com Wed Mar 12 10:51:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: OT: Software Documentation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030312104215.03940618@127.0.0.1> Guys, I work for a small consulting company that creates software for distribution. We're a low volume operation, and don't have many employees. I've been trying to rein in the whole development process to streamline it over the last couple of years, and now I need to streamline the methods by which we create documentation for our products. I'd love to know what systems people on this list use for creating software documentation (manuals, etc.), and I'd love to hear any recommendations for systems that allow for concurrent access (kinda like CVS), change approval, revision control, etc, etc. Are there any good open-source solutions available? I've been searching and gathering information, and I'd really appreciate hearing the experiences of others on this list. Thanks! - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 11:03:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: Message-ID: <3E6F6706.6090003@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > At $880 I would *hope* I was buying an original. That is just scathingly > obscene for a modern day replica kit. Well if you don't reasearch what you collect that is your problem. While most things go for dirt cheap consider the value if any old computer equipment if you had to build it again.Look at the univac for sale on ebay ... More than most people can afford yes, less than the cost to rebuild yes as well. Ben. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Mar 12 11:07:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c2e8b9$2a539630$46f8b8ce@impac.com> > I was under the impression (based on previous classiccmp discussions) that > the only way to get the bare boards was to use the plans supplied in > to etch your own. So how would you define > original? In 1974 you could order the "kit" from Radio Electronics (actually from Jon Titus) which consisted of the bare boards, a parts list and some brief instructions on how to turn it all into a computer. The article in RE was descriptive but not enough so that you could build a computer from that and the board layouts. A machine built using those original boards would be "original" and one built using the identical, but newer, reproduction boards is not original (although it would be just as much fun). Anyone selling the latter as the former is perpetrating a fraud. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Mar 12 11:07:30 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <00f801c2e8b4$21b061c0$1301090a@xpace.net> References: <0e6501c2e8ab$a964c380$46f8b8ce@impac.com> <20030312160132.PCSW17849.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <00f801c2e8b4$21b061c0$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <3075.130.76.32.21.1047488661.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> If it's not "old" then it's "new." Any spinning to try and make something seem old, when all the parts were recently made is deceptive, unless it is made crystal clear that this is just a remanufacture of an old design. Clearly, some of the parts have not been manufactured in some time, so those parts by definition are old. However, any attempt (or missing description) that fails to describe the reality of this kit, is still deception, in my opinion. >>From: "Mike" >> I asked about the kit and the owner did say that it was a new one he >> had purchased. I guess that not every one asks about the product they >> are buying. I was expecting the owner to add a note to the ad >> mentioning that > it >> was a 'NEW' kit. > > It's a little hard to quantify 'NEW' for these Mark-8's... while the > boards were made > recently, they were made from the original published patterns, and are > not plated-through or otherwise 'newer' than the originals except in the > age of the raw materials. The Radio-Electronics articles have all the > layouts, and some > number of Mark-8's were home etched, or even wire-wrapped, so it's not > like there's One True Source. When I built mine (from Steve Gabaly's > boards), I was > able to find most of the TTL parts in 70's vintage. So how 'new' is it? From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 11:13:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I was under the impression (based on previous classiccmp discussions) that > the only way to get the bare boards was to use the plans supplied in > to etch your own. So how would you define > original? Etched from the plans or etched from the plans within some > short period of time from the publication date? Or maybe etched from the > plans using materials produced at the time of publication? I have a couple > of really old Radio Shack board etching kits around somewhere. I'm sure > that I bought them before 1980. Could I turn them into gold by using them > to etch a couple of Mark-8 boards? ;-) (smiley for the humor impared) If the boards were etched within the timeframe of the original article, say anywhere between July 1974 and July 1975 (to be generous) then I would consider that "original". Also, if it was a completed machine that was built in a similar timeframe, I would consider that original. I would not consider boards that were recently fabricated and then put together with other recently fabricated components to be "original" in the context of the time that has passed from 1974 until now. It's a tricky issue to be sure, but the fact is there is a major difference between a kit that was produced at the time the article originally appeared, perhaps by Jon Titus himself, and a kit assembled from parts that were recently (i.e. nearly 30 years later) manufactured. The materials and components that were available in 1974 are different than those available today. The PCB is different, the etching process (unless you have an old etching kit) is different, and the date codes will be modern, unless you take the time to seek out chips from that era. Even if you were to use an old etching kit, find chips with era appropriate date codes (i.e. no later than 7526), and find all the other components that would have been appropriate for that period (or were in fact made in that period) you are still assembling a modern replica and it should be amply noted as such if you are selling it. To not mention it is unethical, and to go to lengths to hide it is outright fraud. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Mar 12 11:13:21 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39833.130.76.32.21.1047489017.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> This is all spin-mystering. A Rembrandt painting is technically no better than a modern copy, by a technically competent artist. But it is the age of the original creation, the materials of the day, and the fact that it was created "then", rather than "now", that is relevant. A Mark-8 that was built from materials and techniques of the age is more valuable that one that someone send out now for manufacture, in my opinion. Processes, materials and workmanship of today is different than in past. That is the very essence of the difference between vintage and current design. Do you think an Altair that is remanufactured using todays processes (which by the way, is completely possible) is more or less valuable than one that was created in 1976? > I was under the impression (based on previous classiccmp discussions) > that the only way to get the bare boards was to use the plans supplied > in to etch your own. So how would you > define original? Etched from the plans or etched from the plans within > some short period of time from the publication date? Or maybe etched > from the plans using materials produced at the time of publication? I > have a couple of really old Radio Shack board etching kits around > somewhere. I'm sure that I bought them before 1980. Could I turn them > into gold by using them to etch a couple of Mark-8 boards? ;-) (smiley > for the humor impared) > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein >> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:26 AM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: RE: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay >> >> >> >It took a while for some guys on comp.os.cpm to catch on. >> >I lurk there now and then. I was not sure whether they >> >were trolling or truly unaware that there were no original >> >kits, but then someone else clued them in. >> >> Yeah, I guess the only thing that could be original would be the bare >> boards. Everything else would just have to be contemporary materials, >> at best. >> >> I'm still guessing that the buyer expected to be purchasing an >> antique, not a recent creation. >> >> Erik S. Klein >> www.vintage-computer.com From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Mar 12 11:14:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: Message-ID: <3E6F6A15.6010305@cox.net> Nope. Board sets were available for order through Techniques, authorized by Jon Titus. If I made an Apple 1 from original plans, could I sell it as original without eventually spending time in court? Of course not. "But" you say, "The Apple 1 was sold as a completed product!" So? What are you paying for? Old parts? I have all the old parts I need to make an Apple 1. Is it the board? What if I had an unpopulated board I made myself in the seventies? Or is it age of the solder, or the date that it was assembled? I say it is all of the above. I also think that original boards from the authorized source account for much more than anything else, since the board sets were really the only thing authorized for production. I would be very unhappy if I bought an Apple 1 for more than the cost of making one today, and found out after the fact that it was a replica. -Bryan >I was under the impression (based on previous classiccmp discussions) that >the only way to get the bare boards was to use the plans supplied in > to etch your own. So how would you define >original? Etched from the plans or etched from the plans within some From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 11:19:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <001601c2e8b9$2a539630$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> So 25 year old PCB's make something "original"? Your definition and mine are really different then. If it's built according to the plans then it's original. Period. If you through a GAL on there and a couple 6116's then no - not original Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:02 PM, Erik S. Klein wrote: > In 1974 you could order the "kit" from Radio Electronics (actually from > Jon Titus) which consisted of the bare boards, a parts list and some > brief instructions on how to turn it all into a computer. The article > in RE was descriptive but not enough so that you could build a computer > from that and the board layouts. > > A machine built using those original boards would be "original" and one > built using the identical, but newer, reproduction boards is not > original (although it would be just as much fun). Anyone selling the > latter as the former is perpetrating a fraud. > > Erik S. Klein From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 11:31:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F6A15.6010305@cox.net> Message-ID: <02DCD28A-54B0-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Guys, this is turning into another George Bush political thread. If the buyer and seller are happy. Then be happy too. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com ps. I got Mark 8 plans from Jon Titus and I've been collecting parts to build my own. I will consider mine "original" if I can do it finding all the old parts listed on the schematic. If I have to replace some of them then I will note the changes. On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:10 PM, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > Nope. Board sets were available for order through Techniques, > authorized by Jon Titus. If I made an Apple 1 from original plans, > could I sell it as original without eventually spending time in court? > Of course not. "But" you say, "The Apple 1 was sold as a completed > product!" So? What are you paying for? Old parts? I have all the old > parts I need to make an Apple 1. Is it the board? What if I had an > unpopulated board I made myself in the seventies? Or is it age of the > solder, or the date that it was assembled? I say it is all of the > above. I also think that original boards from the authorized source > account for much more than anything else, since the board sets were > really the only thing authorized for production. I would be very > unhappy if I bought an Apple 1 for more than the cost of making one > today, and found out after the fact that it was a replica. > > -Bryan From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Mar 12 11:33:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3E6F6E8F.9060703@cox.net> Then why do you waste time collecting old computers? In many cases, it would cost less to build everything "original" today. An original Silver Ghost Rolls Royce, the most valuable collector car in existance at $50 million, could easily be built today from the original plans, by hand just as the original, for about $50,000. How much would you give me? I'll get started today if you say $49 million. ;-) -Bryan > So 25 year old PCB's make something "original"? Your definition and > mine are really different then. If it's built according to the plans > then it's original. Period. If you through a GAL on there and a couple > 6116's then no - not original From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Mar 12 11:38:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: More HP-85 & Trilogy Wafers posted Message-ID: <1aa.11a32aa2.2ba0c9c2@aol.com> I have posted some more HP-85 accessories and some Trilogy Wafers for those who have trouble finding wafers. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0& userid=innfosale&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1 Paxton Astoria, OR Innfosale on eBay From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Mar 12 11:38:14 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit References: <02DCD28A-54B0-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3E6F6FD1.9060107@cox.net> You are free to "consider" it an original, but if you sell it as such, you are being dishonest -Bryan > > ps. I got Mark 8 plans from Jon Titus and I've been collecting parts > to build my own. I will consider mine "original" if I can do it > finding all the old parts listed on the schematic. If I have to > replace some of them then I will note the changes. From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Mar 12 11:40:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit References: <02DCD28A-54B0-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3E6F7056.6060702@cox.net> I've seen George's. It's a replica. -Bryan From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 11:44:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <3E6F6E8F.9060703@cox.net> Message-ID: I'm sorry. I knew this would start something. Just because something can be built cheaper doesn't mean I have the time to do it. I can build a Mark - 8 easier then a Rolls Royce. Again, sorry I said anything Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:29 PM, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > Then why do you waste time collecting old computers? In many cases, it > would cost less to build everything "original" today. An original > Silver Ghost Rolls Royce, the most valuable collector car in existance > at $50 million, could easily be built today from the original plans, > by hand just as the original, for about $50,000. How much would you > give me? I'll get started today if you say $49 million. ;-) > > -Bryan > >> So 25 year old PCB's make something "original"? Your definition and >> mine are really different then. If it's built according to the plans >> then it's original. Period. If you through a GAL on there and a >> couple 6116's then no - not original From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 11:47:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F6FD1.9060107@cox.net> Message-ID: <33D7BDBC-54B2-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Please stop. I don't need a morality lesson from anyone. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:35 PM, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > You are free to "consider" it an original, but if you sell it as such, > you are being dishonest > > -Bryan From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Mar 12 11:49:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> References: <001601c2e8b9$2a539630$46f8b8ce@impac.com> <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <44439.130.76.32.15.1047491192.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > If it's built according to the plans then it's original. Period. NO! It's nonsense! From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 11:50:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F7056.6060702@cox.net> Message-ID: <9293199A-54B2-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> lol. That's good. But he made it with original parts. ;) Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:37 PM, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > I've seen George's. It's a replica. > > -Bryan From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Mar 12 11:51:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: Message-ID: <3E6F72CF.9060500@cox.net> All in fun, my friend, no offense taken or intended. I am just suggesting that "original" implies something different than something identical but recent. (For a few million bucks, building a Rolls Royce gets easier!) -Bryan > I'm sorry. I knew this would start something. Just because something > can be built cheaper doesn't mean I have the time to do it. I can > build a Mark - 8 easier then a Rolls Royce. > > Again, sorry I said anything From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 12 11:51:13 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers Message-ID: <200303121740.JAA09449@clulw009.amd.com> Hi These are usually made on a glass plate. They look like a larger version of only one of the dies of a wafer. Some are actual size but most are done with steppers now days. The glass has a thin metal coat on one side ( mirror looking ). I think they use chromium but I don't recall. You can see that layer's detail by holding it up to the light. The metal has been remove in places. It is kind of like a negative and used the same way. The ones for things like uP's of today, include a set of about 30 or 40 for different parts of the processing. A full set of these cost about 0.5 M$ to make. Dwight >From: "Chandra Bajpai" > >I got to ask this...what's a wafer mask...what's it look like? > >-Chandra > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Hans Franke >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 6:22 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: collecting silicon wafers > >> 1. Stamps are printed in vast numbers >> 2. They are used and, in most cases, eventually destroyed >> 3. They are difficult to forge (convincingly) >> 4. Most are virtually worthless >> 5. A few a almost priceless >> 6. Many are beautiful >> 7. They have an inherent research interest - printing varieties, >> flaws, rarities, historical interest etc. >> 8. They are (usually) considered most valuable unused and even >> more valuable in an unbroken sheet. > >> [...] > >The whole idea of wafer collecting got something to it, although >I think the stamp reference is a bit far fetched. > >Gruss >H. > >BTW: I realy love wafer masks ... they are just a bit hard to find. >So if one of y'all (sp?) got some laying around ... > >-- >VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ From kth at srv.net Wed Mar 12 11:52:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3E6F7991.1020601@srv.net> Robert Borsuk wrote: > So 25 year old PCB's make something "original"? Your definition and > mine are really different then. If it's built according to the plans > then it's original. Period. If you through a GAL on there and a couple > 6116's then no - not original > So, you believe that a reproduction of the Mona Lisa made recently should be worth the same as the original. Great, I'll have someone whip up one tomorrow and you can pay me for it what the original is worth. Maybe I'll make a couple hundred. That should make me a billionaire fairly quickly. From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Mar 12 11:52:12 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F7056.6060702@cox.net> References: <02DCD28A-54B0-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> <3E6F7056.6060702@cox.net> Message-ID: <51531.130.76.32.15.1047491377.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> However, Al Gore's is original, since he invented it. > I've seen George's. It's a replica. > > -Bryan From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Mar 12 11:58:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Sick network routing question. In-Reply-To: <3E6F2DEF.2000507@aconit.org> Message-ID: <000301c2e8c0$bda02870$3701a8c0@benchbox> It all starts with the Atari. Here's a quick rundown of what is connected to what etc. Machines: Serial Leg: Atari MegaST4 - Running MiNT (a BSD unix flavor): (AtariST) 192.168.1.2 PPP link via ttya@19200bps -----> (Sparcstation) running OpenBSD v3.2: (Sparc) ttya 192.168.1.1 ----> BNC Ethernet Leg: (Sparcstation) (same machine as host for ppplink)) Ethernet link le0 192.168.1.39 ----> (Benchbox) Win2k Default gateway (Win2k NAT) 192.168.1.55 -----> Cat 5 Leg: 2nd nic in win2k Nat router. This one Natted 192.168.0.1 ---> (NoHostName) Linksys NAT router: 192.168.0.254 ---> Nat routed internet. Not having a hub with a BNC port on it has forced me to use a BNC nic in one of the machines to provide a bridge. I used NAT because I am too stupid to use something other than NAT. I could connect the Atari to the Win2k machine via ppp and get a connection, but the machines on the BNC and serial leg are a floor below the machine acting as the router for that leg. I don't want to run a 40" serial cable next to the BNC cable run just so the ST can surf.... Especially since: I suspect I'm missing something fantasticly simple and that the problem I face with the Win2k machine and the problem with the Atari on the Sparc are likely going to be solved the same way. How? Please? Bonus question.... Has anyone ever 'shotgunned' two serial ppp connections to one ip so as to double throughput? Is this a gawdaweful mess or can I use something like this to speed up the link to the ST? I can't go faster than 19.2k reliably so another connection is the only way. I am seriously thinking about an Ne2000 for the ST, but haven't even started building that. >----- The problems: -----< (Notes really. The meat is above.) The main problem I'd like to solve is on the Sparc. I'm not sure I understand what needs to be done here. I don't want to use ANOTHER nat router on the Sparc. I know that works, but I'd like to get rid of any extra Natting period which includes the one running on Benchbox. What do I need? Gated? Routed? I think I'm a little lost. I've done this for wans using Cisco and Ascend routers, but the software approach is kicking my butt a bit. I've used OS/2, Linux, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and Windows-based Nat routers in this configuration so the problems with FTP below are the same if I chose to use them as the router for that 'leg' of the network. FTP connections from machines behind the 2nd nat router are flaky with FTP downloads. They are all going through two nat routers so I can understand there might be a problem with passive ftp, but why? So I can at least understand if not fix. Thanks for entertaining my question and I hope one of you has the kindness help even though this isn't exactly a purely topical posting. Regards, Jeff From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 11:59:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: Message-ID: <3E6F7412.8050607@jetnet.ab.ca> Robert Borsuk wrote: > I'm sorry. I knew this would start something. Just because something can > be built cheaper doesn't mean I have the time to do it. I can build a > Mark - 8 easier then a Rolls Royce. I would say the Royce is easier ... you can't make a 8008 chip from scratch. Ben. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 12:03:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <3E6F72CF.9060500@cox.net> Message-ID: <6FD8613A-54B4-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Really when you think about it. There really is only one original Mark-8. The one done by Jon himself. Since they never were produced and were only sold as a set of plans. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com ps. No offence taken. It's interesting to see the different opinions pss. Al finished the Mark-8 then turned to the internet On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:47 PM, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > All in fun, my friend, no offense taken or intended. I am just > suggesting that "original" implies something different than something > identical but recent. (For a few million bucks, building a Rolls Royce > gets easier!) > > -Bryan > >> I'm sorry. I knew this would start something. Just because something >> can be built cheaper doesn't mean I have the time to do it. I can >> build a Mark - 8 easier then a Rolls Royce. >> >> Again, sorry I said anything From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Mar 12 12:03:27 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002f01c2e8c0$fcf38da0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Rob Borsuk wrote: > Guys, honestly. If the person is happy paying $880 or $3300 dollars for > something then shake their hand and congratulate them. Just because > some of us wouldn't pay that much for it doesn't mean that it doesn't > make THEM happy. I think you are missing the point. If the buyer was aware that this is a reproduction kit and he bought it anyway then I agree with you wholeheartedly. I often spend more for items I am interested in then our more frugal list-mates would think rational. An informed consumer making a decision should be happy about it. If, on the other hand, the buyer believed that this was an "original" Mark-8 (of 1974 vintage) then he will be disappointed, not happy, when he realizes his error. If, on the third hand (for those born near a radiation source), the buyer was led to believe that this was an original, then he was defrauded. There is a strong parallel between this discussion and another hobby of mine; old Corvettes. In Corvette circles, however, there are guiding organizations that carefully research, document, classify and adjudicate what is original and what is not for a given car. You can, therefore, be sure that if you are buying a car judged by the National Corvette Restorers Society as "Top-Flight" then you are getting a car that is 94% original or better. Original in their case is defined as "that's the way it came from the factory." Points are deducted for aftermarket parts and modifications and undue damage to original parts. The vintage computer hobby is probably a long way from that type of situation, but many of the same "rules" apply and certainly the same issues arise from time to time. At least amongst those that collect for historical value over hacking value. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Mar 12 12:03:40 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: OT: Software Documentation In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030312104215.03940618@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Matthew Sell wrote: > I work for a small consulting company that creates software for > distribution. We're a low volume operation, and don't have many > employees. > > I've been trying to rein in the whole development process to > streamline it over the last couple of years, and now I need to > streamline the methods by which we create documentation for our > products. > > I'd love to know what systems people on this list use for creating > software documentation (manuals, etc.), and I'd love to hear any > recommendations for systems that allow for concurrent access (kinda > like CVS), change approval, revision control, etc, etc. > > Are there any good open-source solutions available? I've been > searching and gathering information, and I'd really appreciate hearing > the experiences of others on this list. You can use CVS in combination with either TeX, or Docbook, or nroff, or HTML, or.... I don't think any "packaged" open source products exist because it's easy enough to roll your own sophisticated document production system with standard development tools (CVS and make) combined with any number of the dozens of freely available text processing tools. -brian. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 12:06:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <3E6F7991.1020601@srv.net> Message-ID: Again. Sorry I brought this up. This is apples to oranges. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 01:16 PM, Kevin Handy wrote: > >> So 25 year old PCB's make something "original"? Your definition and >> mine are really different then. If it's built according to the plans >> then it's original. Period. If you through a GAL on there and a >> couple 6116's then no - not original >> > So, you believe that a reproduction of the Mona Lisa made recently > should be worth the same as the original. Great, I'll have someone > whip > up one tomorrow and you can pay me for it what the original is worth. > > Maybe I'll make a couple hundred. That should make me a billionaire > fairly quickly. From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Mar 12 12:07:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: what does ad say re Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay Message-ID: <138.1c7a8414.2ba0d0a2@aol.com> Well, I read the original posting and I didn't feel it was fraudulent. While he did not say it was "New" it was apparent to me that it was probably a reproduction. I sure would have asked if I was concerned if it was original. If it was my posting I probably would have been a little clearer. It seemed to me that the posting followed the rules of classic capitalism, maximize your plusses, minimize your negatives and let the buyer beware. Good US values. Paxton Astoria, OR Who is not a very good capitalist. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 12:09:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Sick network routing question. In-Reply-To: <000301c2e8c0$bda02870$3701a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <470BFA3A-54B5-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> I remember something about a NIC for the Atari ST. Haven't seen one in years though. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:56 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > It all starts with the Atari. Here's a quick rundown of what is > connected to what etc. > > Machines: > > Serial Leg: > > Atari MegaST4 - Running MiNT (a BSD unix flavor): > > (AtariST) 192.168.1.2 PPP link via ttya@19200bps -----> > > (Sparcstation) running OpenBSD v3.2: > > (Sparc) ttya 192.168.1.1 ----> > > > > > BNC Ethernet Leg: > > (Sparcstation) (same machine as host for > ppplink)) Ethernet link le0 192.168.1.39 ----> > > (Benchbox) Win2k Default gateway (Win2k NAT) 192.168.1.55 -----> > > > > > > Cat 5 Leg: > > 2nd nic in win2k Nat router. This one Natted > 192.168.0.1 ---> > > (NoHostName) Linksys NAT router: > > 192.168.0.254 ---> Nat routed internet. > > > > > Not having a hub with a BNC port on it has forced me to use a BNC nic > in > one of the machines to provide a bridge. I used NAT because I am too > stupid to use something other than NAT. > > I could connect the Atari to the Win2k machine via ppp and get a > connection, but the machines on the BNC and serial leg are a floor > below > the machine acting as the router for that leg. I don't want to run a > 40" > serial cable next to the BNC cable run just so the ST can surf.... > > Especially since: > > I suspect I'm missing something fantasticly simple and that the problem > I face with the Win2k machine and the problem with the Atari on the > Sparc are likely going to be solved the same way. > > How? Please? > > Bonus question.... Has anyone ever 'shotgunned' two serial ppp > connections to one ip so as to double throughput? Is this a gawdaweful > mess or can I use something like this to speed up the link to the ST? > I > can't go faster than 19.2k reliably so another connection is the only > way. I am seriously thinking about an Ne2000 for the ST, but haven't > even started building that. > > > > >----- The problems: -----< > (Notes really. The meat is above.) > > > > The main problem I'd like to solve is on the Sparc. > > I'm not sure I understand what needs to be done here. I don't want to > use ANOTHER nat router on the Sparc. I know that works, but I'd like > to > get rid of any extra Natting period which includes the one running on > Benchbox. > > What do I need? Gated? Routed? I think I'm a little lost. I've done > this for wans using Cisco and Ascend routers, but the software approach > is kicking my butt a bit. > > I've used OS/2, Linux, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and Windows-based Nat routers > in > this configuration so the problems with FTP below are the same if I > chose to use them as the router for that 'leg' of the network. > > FTP connections from machines behind the 2nd nat router are flaky with > FTP downloads. They are all going through two nat routers so I can > understand there might be a problem with passive ftp, but why? So I can > at least understand if not fix. > > > Thanks for entertaining my question and I hope one of you has the > kindness help even though this isn't exactly a purely topical posting. > > Regards, > > Jeff From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 12:17:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <002f01c2e8c0$fcf38da0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <61885598-54B6-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> I think I understand the point but I also respect your views. I can't reply to this without being flamed some more. SO to gracefully switch the topic. I have a PRO-LOG PM9052 board on my desk that I'm getting ready to take the 1702's out of. Anyone know about this board. it has PM9052 on it. It looks like some kind of board for buring eproms. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 12:58 PM, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Rob Borsuk wrote: > >> Guys, honestly. If the person is happy paying $880 or $3300 dollars > for >> something then shake their hand and congratulate them. Just because >> some of us wouldn't pay that much for it doesn't mean that it doesn't >> make THEM happy. > > I think you are missing the point. If the buyer was aware that this is > a reproduction kit and he bought it anyway then I agree with you > wholeheartedly. I often spend more for items I am interested in then > our more frugal list-mates would think rational. An informed consumer > making a decision should be happy about it. > > If, on the other hand, the buyer believed that this was an "original" > Mark-8 (of 1974 vintage) then he will be disappointed, not happy, when > he realizes his error. > > If, on the third hand (for those born near a radiation source), the > buyer was led to believe that this was an original, then he was > defrauded. > > There is a strong parallel between this discussion and another hobby of > mine; old Corvettes. In Corvette circles, however, there are guiding > organizations that carefully research, document, classify and > adjudicate > what is original and what is not for a given car. You can, therefore, > be sure that if you are buying a car judged by the National Corvette > Restorers Society as "Top-Flight" then you are getting a car that is > 94% > original or better. Original in their case is defined as "that's the > way it came from the factory." Points are deducted for aftermarket > parts and modifications and undue damage to original parts. > > The vintage computer hobby is probably a long way from that type of > situation, but many of the same "rules" apply and certainly the same > issues arise from time to time. At least amongst those that collect > for > historical value over hacking value. > > Erik S. Klein > www.vintage-computer.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 12 12:18:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 was: New To List and PDP8 Question Message-ID: <200303121812.KAA09481@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bill It is a complete SIM4-01 setup with the programmer card. see: http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/digibarn/digibarn4004.jpg It isn't clear in the picture but under the newer MCS4 manuals is one of the older ones with a complete descrition of the SIM4 in it. You didn't put the programs in RAM, it still require one to blow 1702's that you'd replace those on the SIM4 board to test out your programs. You need to remember this is a Harvard architecture type processor. The motherboard/box has some dip connectors, LED lights and switches that can be used for I/O to simulate your application with. I still use it every now and then to blow 1702A for various things. Dwight >From: "Bill Kotaska" > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:26 AM >Subject: Intel 4004 was: New To List and PDP8 Question > > >> >> I have a SIM4 but mine doesn't have the nice LCD read out that >> yours has. I wrote an assembler as well. Mine is single pass >> but I can still do forward references by having the lables self >> resolve them selves as their location is assigned. I also have >> a simualtor that I wrote. It is built around the SIM4 board. >> >Wow Dwight, a real SIM4. Is it the -01 or -02. I think the main difference >was the number of PROMs it would hold. Do you also have the box with the >mating connectors? I think it was used to interface the SIM4 to another >board for programming 1702s. Oh what THESE would fetch on eBay. All joking >aside, I hope you wouldn't do that. I know I couldn't. >> >> Most 4004 systems have a lot of hardware dependencies since >> not all used things like the 4002's for RAMs or the normal >> I/O methods. >> >I toyed with the idea of making a SIM4 clone but I would have had to do too >many part substitutions. It wouldn't have been much of a clone. And I still >wouldn't have been able to execute out of RAM. >Right? > >Bill From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Mar 12 12:18:16 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Can one make their own chips? Message-ID: <1ec.407293c.2ba0d333@aol.com> > you can't make a 8008 chip from scratch In the discussion of wafers it made me wonder if one could lay down their own design in Silicon. or duplicate an early design like the 8008 (lets not get into a discussion of copyrights). Does anyone collect FAB equipment? A small clean room would not be hard to set up. At one time I saw a 3 inch mask aligner go for $25. I bought the 4 inch Mask Aligner for $150. There is so much old FAB Equipment around it seems one should be able to set up a home lab. Does anyone know of one in existence? Paxton Astoria, OR From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 12 12:23:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Actually, I may be able to transfer via floppy disk, as I have an OPD > disk interface (How cool is that? I even have the manuals!) - it plugs > into the ROM pack. The one unknown at this time is what format the > floppy is written in; but since it at least takes the same drives as the > QL, it should be possible to read one way or another. Unlike Commodore's > damn GCR format. Using the same DRIVES does NOT make it possible. The DISK CONTROLLER is the key element. For example, with Tandon TM100-2 drives and different disk controllers, I can do Northstar hard sector, Apple GCR, Commodore GCR, FM "Single density", and MFM double density. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 12:29:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Can one make their own chips? References: <1ec.407293c.2ba0d333@aol.com> Message-ID: <3E6F7B16.8090609@jetnet.ab.ca> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone collect FAB equipment? A small clean room would not be hard to > set up. At one time I saw a 3 inch mask aligner go for $25. I bought the 4 > inch Mask Aligner for $150. There is so much old FAB Equipment around it > seems one should be able to set up a home lab. Does anyone know of one in > existence? What is copywrite and more secret is the exact chemicals and other details involved in the process. Remember you need to 99.99999% correct for the whole thing to work. Ben. From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 12:33:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> <3E6F7991.1020601@srv.net> Message-ID: <022a01c2e8c5$6aae62d0$1301090a@xpace.net> > So, you believe that a reproduction of the Mona Lisa made recently > should be worth the same as the original. Great, I'll have someone whip > up one tomorrow and you can pay me for it what the original is worth. There's a big difference between a unique work of art and an instance of a construction of a published design. Clearly for _anything_ collectible there's a scale of valuation based on age, 'low serial number', 'made by original inventor', condition, completeness, whether repairs have been made to it, etc., etc. All this arguing about imprecise, unquantifiable terms like 'original' and 'new' doesn't solve anything. The only thing that seems to be in general agreement is that the seller (probably) intentionally omitted information that might have lowered the final sales price. Which is something the Romans (well, Latin anyway) had a phrase for a long time ago... From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 12:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <3E6F6706.6090003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > At $880 I would *hope* I was buying an original. That is just scathingly > > obscene for a modern day replica kit. > > Well if you don't reasearch what you collect that is your problem. > While most things go for dirt cheap consider the value if any old > computer equipment if you had to build it again.Look at the univac > for sale on ebay ... More than most people can afford yes, less > than the cost to rebuild yes as well. Point taken but even if you were to build a Mark-1 you'd really only need the original issues of Radio-Electronics. You can get those for under $200 on eBay or free if you find someone willing to scan the pages. With the exception of the 8008, the rest is trivial. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 12:53:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> <3E6F7991.1020601@srv.net> <022a01c2e8c5$6aae62d0$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <3E6F80D1.8070203@jetnet.ab.ca> Jim Kearney wrote: > The only thing that seems to be in general agreement is that the seller > (probably) intentionally omitted information that might have lowered the > final sales price. Which is something the Romans (well, Latin anyway) had a > phrase for a long time ago... > Since the phrase is in Latin would not that have made it more valuable. Wow Latin it can't read it but it must be the real thing. Just like movie dates in roman numerals -- you can't tell quickly how old they are. Ben PS. Yes you can proto-type chips but it is not cheap. A ballpark figure is about $500 to $1000 each. http://www.mosis.com/ From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 12:59:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <5CA1AA15-54AE-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > So 25 year old PCB's make something "original"? Your definition and > mine are really different then. If it's built according to the plans > then it's original. Period. If you through a GAL on there and a couple > 6116's then no - not original Ok, then we have two definitions: "Original (according to plan)" and "Original". "Original (according to plan)" means it could have been made at any time with any parts as long as those parts are what were called for in the original plan. "Original" means sensitive to seminal date of manufacture. "Original (according to plan)" != "Original" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 13:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:15 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <02DCD28A-54B0-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > ps. I got Mark 8 plans from Jon Titus and I've been collecting parts to > build my own. I will consider mine "original" if I can do it finding > all the old parts listed on the schematic. If I have to replace some > of them then I will note the changes. I wouldn't consider it "original" because it is missing one crucial element: this is not 1974. But that doesn't matter. Have fun making it because that's all that counts. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 13:02:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F7056.6060702@cox.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > I've seen George's. It's a replica. And he confused an 8080 with the 8008 but is trying to convince the world that it will work. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 13:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <6FD8613A-54B4-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Robert Borsuk wrote: > Really when you think about it. There really is only one original > Mark-8. The one done by Jon himself. Since they never were produced > and were only sold as a set of plans. I think you're now being too strict with the term "original" whereas before you were being too loose. The problem is, there is disagreement on the definition of "original". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 13:10:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <002f01c2e8c0$fcf38da0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > There is a strong parallel between this discussion and another hobby of > mine; old Corvettes. In Corvette circles, however, there are guiding > organizations that carefully research, document, classify and adjudicate > what is original and what is not for a given car. You can, therefore, > be sure that if you are buying a car judged by the National Corvette > Restorers Society as "Top-Flight" then you are getting a car that is 94% > original or better. Original in their case is defined as "that's the > way it came from the factory." Points are deducted for aftermarket > parts and modifications and undue damage to original parts. > > The vintage computer hobby is probably a long way from that type of > situation, but many of the same "rules" apply and certainly the same > issues arise from time to time. At least amongst those that collect for > historical value over hacking value. Hmm, that is a really cool idea. We definitely need something like that in this hobby. I see too many people either get ripped off or mislead on a lot of eBay auctions. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 12 13:17:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay Message-ID: <200303121913.LAA09556@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Robert Borsuk" > >I think I understand the point but I also respect your views. I can't >reply to this without being flamed some more. SO to gracefully switch >the topic. I have a PRO-LOG PM9052 board on my desk that I'm getting >ready to take the 1702's out of. Anyone know about this board. it has >PM9052 on it. It looks like some kind of board for buring eproms. > >Rob Borsuk >rborsuk@colourfull.com > Hi This is most likely not a burn-in board, it is a memory board to be used with a larger system. PRO-LOG made many universal boards for various purposes. These were often designed into systems to save on engineering time. Kind of early plug-n-play stuff. Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 12 13:21:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: IC prototyping (was Re: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay) In-Reply-To: <3E6F80D1.8070203@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20030312191803.10591.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- ben franchuk wrote: > PS. Yes you can proto-type chips but it is not cheap. A ballpark > figure is about $500 to $1000 each. http://www.mosis.com/ Hmm... my first thought was for bus driver/receiver chips from the OMNIBUS days (DEC 8881 and friends), but after a little reflection, I doubt the current fab processes would easily approximate the characteristics of those ancient chips we'd be trying to reproduce. The only thing in favor of such an endeavour is that the tolerances 30 years ago were so sloppy compared to today that it wouldn't be impossible to get something that behaved well enough, but didn't depend on some of the manufacturing specifics. -ethan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 13:22:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit References: Message-ID: <3E6F8797.70207@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I wouldn't consider it "original" because it is missing one crucial > element: this is not 1974. So you are a little slow in finishing huh. :) Lets say I homebrewed a computer using a 8008 rather than the Mark-8, in 1975, and put it on e-bay today. Just because it is not as well know as the Mark 8 , does this make it less of a collectors item since it too is a 'original item'? Ben. PS. Don't worry I am still designing my XT killer PC from TTL, so maybie my 12/24 bit cpu will not be ready in 1983 ... umm 2003 instead. Note a TTL computer could still have been designed and marketed in the 1980's since memory still was the largest price in a computer system. ALSO lets not talk about GEORGE, I am tired all this beating around the Bush.!! From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 12 13:28:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Can one make their own chips? References: <1ec.407293c.2ba0d333@aol.com> Message-ID: <004601c2e8cc$783978c0$0400fea9@game> You mean a real working lab? Even if you could legally get all the chemicals to do all the chemical baths, there is no way you could get the permit to do it in your house. Diffusion ovens would be a pain, along with power requirements, ultrapure water + heater, etc. Even if you could make the chip on a wafer (and all your equipment has to be for that size wafer), you still need the equipment to turn the silicon into a chip like the chip cutting machine, plastic encapolating stuff, and the gold wiring interconnects to the outside pins. Getting all this into a class 100 cleanroom with associated hepa filters and climate control would be interesting, that and what would you do with the waste products? Would be cheaper to have a design made at some chip foundry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:15 PM Subject: Can one make their own chips? > > you can't make a 8008 chip from scratch > > In the discussion of wafers it made me wonder if one could lay down their own > design in Silicon. or duplicate an early design like the 8008 (lets not get > into a discussion of copyrights). > > Does anyone collect FAB equipment? A small clean room would not be hard to > set up. At one time I saw a 3 inch mask aligner go for $25. I bought the 4 > inch Mask Aligner for $150. There is so much old FAB Equipment around it > seems one should be able to set up a home lab. Does anyone know of one in > existence? > > Paxton > Astoria, OR From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Mar 12 13:50:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Can one make their own chips? In-Reply-To: <004601c2e8cc$783978c0$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, TeoZ wrote: > You mean a real working lab? > > Even if you could legally get all the chemicals to do all the chemical > baths, there is no way you could get the permit to do it in your house. > Diffusion ovens would be a pain, along with power requirements, ultrapure > water + heater, etc. Even if you could make the chip on a wafer (and all > your equipment has to be for that size wafer), you still need the equipment > to turn the silicon into a chip like the chip cutting machine, plastic > encapolating stuff, and the gold wiring interconnects to the outside pins. > Getting all this into a class 100 cleanroom with associated hepa filters and > climate control would be interesting, that and what would you do with the > waste products? > Gee, dump the in the trash like the big companies used to do... (Remembering stories from friend of mine that used to work at Signetics joking about how often the white elephants in back of the fab caught fire...) > > Would be cheaper to have a design made at some chip foundry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:15 PM > Subject: Can one make their own chips? > > > > > you can't make a 8008 chip from scratch > > > > In the discussion of wafers it made me wonder if one could lay down their > own > > design in Silicon. or duplicate an early design like the 8008 (lets not > get > > into a discussion of copyrights). > > > > Does anyone collect FAB equipment? A small clean room would not be hard to > > set up. At one time I saw a 3 inch mask aligner go for $25. I bought the 4 > > inch Mask Aligner for $150. There is so much old FAB Equipment around it > > seems one should be able to set up a home lab. Does anyone know of one in > > existence? > > > > Paxton > > Astoria, OR > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Mar 12 14:11:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: DUP Problem with RT-11 Message-ID: <3E6F937E.814EF822@compsys.to> I have been attempting for some to to write ALL 65536 blocks from one RT-11 partition to a second RT-11 partition. Does anyone know of what is wrong with what I am doing? I am using V5.03 of RT-11 under the Supnik emulator and I do the command: COPY/DEVICE/NOQU DU0:/START:0./END:65535. DU1:/START:0. However, ONLY 65535 blocks are transferred. On the other hand, If I do the command: COPY/DEVICE/NOQU DU0:/START:65524./END:65535. DU1:/START:0. then TWO blocks are transferred (I put 2 non-zero blocks into DU1: first), so I know that that it is possible to read block 65535 from DU0:, but there seems no reason why block 65535 is not written to DU1: via the very first command - especially when there is not even a warning message. Please do not reply that an RT-11 partition is ONLY 65535 blocks and that the last legal block is 65534. I have already proven that I can read block 65535 from DU0: when I use DUP.SAV, thus so as long as block 65535 can be read, there is absolutely NO reason that DUP.SAV should not allow me to write the same block into DU1:, but DUP.SAV does not seem to be able to do that and moreover does not even provide a warning message that DUP.SAV will ignore block 65535 when I explicitly direct that block 65535 be written to DU1: In addition, just in case anyone feels that DUP.SAV really ought not to provide at least a warning message, then try the command: COPY/DEVICE/NOQU DU0:/START:1./END:65535. DU1:/START:1. which does provide the warning message that I suggest is essential so long as DUP.SAV prohibits the user from writing block 65535 onto DU1: after block 65535 has been read from DU0:, even though, in my opinion there is NOTHING wrong with the command and DUP.SAV should do what the user has specified. Can anyone help? Any suggestions other than going into the DUP.SAV program and fixing this bug? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'. If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dan at ekoan.com Wed Mar 12 14:34:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: References: <3E6F6706.6090003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030312151824.04994200@enigma> At 10:44 AM 3/12/03 -0800, you wrote: >Point taken but even if you were to build a Mark-1 you'd really only need >the original issues of Radio-Electronics. You can get those for under >$200 on eBay or free if you find someone willing to scan the pages. With >the exception of the 8008, the rest is trivial. I have the original Radio-Electronics issue (July 1974) with the Mark-8 article by Jonathan A. Titus. I'll be happy to sell it someone for $200. The article itself is only five pages. Readers were asked to send $5 plus postage to R-E in New York to receive a 52-page package of "complete construction details, more data on how it works, a group of eight experiments you can perform with the computer and other important information." Jon Titus' article goes on to describe the six different modules (Main CPU, Memory Address, Input Mux, Memory, Output and Readout) and an interface to the TV Typewriter (from R-E, September 1973). It also provides a parts list, power requirements (+5 VDC at 3 amps and -9 VDC at 1.5 amps), and a software example. It's all interesting reading and goes in to a fair amount of detail, but construction would require the 52-page plans, not just the R-E article. As a point of reference, the parts list indicates that a complete set of circuit boards were available from "Techniques, Inc." of Englewood, New Jersey, for $47.50. Regarding the 8008 microprocessor, the article has a footnote: For more detailed data on the Microprocessor IC write to Intel Corp., 3065 Bowers Ave., Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 - ask for a copy of "8008, 8-Bit Parallel Central Processor Unit-Users Manual." This manual was offered free at the time this article went to press. Hope this helps. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From avickers at solutionengineers.com Wed Mar 12 14:39:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Calling ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto owners again Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030312200046.00b81eb8@slave> I've got a ROM capsule in mine marked "VTLink", which adds an item to the Applications section called "Export Page". Selecting it brings up a page which looks roughly thus: File Name: _________________ Cartridge Name: ____________ Drive (L/R): _ Page (1-99): __ Format (Q/A/N): _ Thing is, I lack the manual for this capsule, and attempting to export anything just says "NO PAGE STORE". So, what am I missing?? Incidentally, a Google web/groups search of VTLink with any variant of OPD/Merlin/Computerphone type keywords results in a big fat zilch (until this message gets archived & then googlebotted, of course...) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 12 14:50:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F8797.70207@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Lets say I homebrewed a computer using a 8008 rather than the Mark-8, > in 1975, and put it on e-bay today. Just because it is not as well > know as the Mark 8 , does this make it less of a collectors item > since it too is a 'original item'? It is certainly worth preserving/collecting. But yes, since it doesn't have the "Mark-8" name then it probably wouldn't fetch as much in dollars. It might not even get as much attention. But historically, it is worth every bit as much as a Mark-8 (if not more). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 12 14:51:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F8797.70207@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > ALSO lets not talk about GEORGE, I am tired all this beating around the > Bush.!! SCROTUS has ruled to prohibit any further investigation of whether his is real. But Clinton will show his to anybody. Richard "I am not a crook" Nixon denied that his was a fake. Ford dropped his and broke it. Quayle never did figure out how to use it. Jimmy Carter lusted after one in his heart. From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Mar 12 14:55:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Shut Up! (Re: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit) In-Reply-To: <3E6F8797.70207@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: People. Back to old 'puters, please. Now. Thanks. --fred From franco.tassone at inwind.it Wed Mar 12 17:01:01 2003 From: franco.tassone at inwind.it (Franco Tassone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Installing Venix or 2.9bsdpro on a DEC PRO350 Message-ID: <000b01c2e8ea$eac89380$77d7623e@tassone> Hi all, after having downloaded both distributions from a PUPS mirror, I was trying to install Venix or 2.9bsd modified for the PRO350. I've created for both distributions the installations floppy using a mvaxII with an rx50 floppy. The mvaxII actually runs netbsd, so I did a dd if=floppy.img of=/dev/rx0a for all the floppy images of the distributions, but when I go and try to boot the bot floppies of venix (and 2.9bsd too) on the PRO350, they fail to boot. The drive seems to try a little then the machine hangs, no messages on the console, except a nice capital DIGITAL, no messages on the serial terminale connected to the printer port with the maintenance cable. With venix floppy instead, after failing to boot, after a litle P/OS starts from hd. What am I missing, what did I wrong ? Any hint will be greatly appreciated. ... Franco Tassone From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 12 17:16:00 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: Message-ID: <014801c2e8ec$e712f3a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > Point taken but even if you were to build a Mark-1 you'd really only need > the original issues of Radio-Electronics. You can get those for under > $200 on eBay or free if you find someone willing to scan the pages. With > the exception of the 8008, the rest is trivial. wrong. the original magazine articles and pcb patterns contained several mistakes. Parts?- not quite so trivial to find. 8008's go on ebay often - but do they work? Though you might salvage a plastic 8008 from an 11/34 or pdp8a (??) keyboard console, the signetics 8267 and 8263 parts might not be that easy to come by. 1101 srams will also be a bit diffcult to find. the rest of the jellybean logic may be found by scrounging old boards, but forget Digikey and the like. I bought a basic kit- thankfully, the hard to get parts were provided, as well as scans of the mag articles including the corrections, and Mark-8 users group newsletters. If someone is interested in building boards or wirewrapping- feel free to contact me - perhaps we can put the files up somewhere. But for me, it was well worth my time and money to get the "modern" kit and not dick around looking for parts. Having paid less than 200$ for the basic kit incl pcbs and core chips, this makes much more sense to me than paying 200$ for magazines only. If you were building a totally modern work alike - an all fpga solution - cpu+rom+ram would be more interesting than yet another 8008 using LS/HC TTL and CMOS static rams. 8008 on a PLD anyone? H From shirsch at adelphia.net Wed Mar 12 17:17:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > An extremely new wafer can be valuable just by the ability to reverse > newfangled engineering. That's why most fabs make it a condition of employment (if not of staying out of jail) that you not remove any from the premises without permission. With the proper equipment and motivation, third-parties could reverse engineer significant IP from even a partially fabbed wafer. Steve From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 12 17:18:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Supercomputer on ebay In-Reply-To: <3E6F2DEF.2000507@aconit.org> Message-ID: > Once a million dollar vector-parallel supercomputer for research > projects at the Australian National University, this Fujitsu VPP300 is > now being auctioned off at eBay. Japanese - yummy! > when I looked it was at 12 AU$ or a tad over US$7. Watch out for the > shipping charges though. Convincing the customs folks to let a Japanese supercomputer in might also be tough. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dundas at caltech.edu Wed Mar 12 17:25:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: RSTS/E CSR Access in MACRO In-Reply-To: References: <1047345825.1707.2042.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: Following up to my own post... I should have taken the easy approach. At 4:19 PM -0800 3/11/03, John A. Dundas III wrote: >Well, nobody else is responding (publicly) so I'll take a stab at it. > >At 5:23 PM -0800 3/10/03, Christopher McNabb wrote: >>I've been attempting to do some macro programming of the DEQNA Ethernet >>card under RSTS/E. All of the system calls to actually send/receive >>packetes seem to be very well documented and fairly easy to use. What I >>can't find in any of the manuals (or on the net) is a system call that >>will return the card's MAC address. > >I'm not aware of such a function either. The release notes for V9.3 indicate that the Ethernet interfaces are available for DECnet use only. There is no direct (general purpose) interface. Future releases are promised to have general support. The release notes for V9.4 indicate that the promised general support was added. One should look at the RSTS/E Programming Manual for use under Basic, the RSTS/E System Directives Manual for Macro. See: Chapter 11 deals with Ethernet programming. It indicates that a .SPEC call documented in the System Directives manual is the way to go. Unfortunately the manual indicates that the .SPEC call is too complicated for Basic; use Macro. The correct revision System Directives manual is not available at 'elvira' (yet?). However, if you could find the System Directives manual for V9.4 or later, you should be able to do what you want with a .SPEC call. John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 17:27:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Supercomputer on ebay References: Message-ID: <3E6FC105.8010809@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > Convincing the customs folks to let a Japanese supercomputer in might > also be tough. Only if there is PORN on the HD! :) From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 17:52:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <014801c2e8ec$e712f3a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <041701c2e8f2$064107d0$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Heinz Wolter" > Parts?- not quite so trivial to find. 8008's go on ebay often - but do they > work? > Though you might salvage a plastic 8008 from an 11/34 or pdp8a (??) 'New' and working 8008's are not that hard to come by. I recently bought 15 of them for a project (http://www.jkearney.com/tiny8demo/) and could get more if necessary. Not cheap, though. > If you were building a totally modern work alike - an all fpga solution - cpu+rom+ram > would be more interesting than yet another 8008 using LS/HC TTL and CMOS static rams. > 8008 on a PLD anyone? This would be a fun project. I did a design (but haven't built) of a Mark-8 using an FPGA and an 8008. The 8008 could be omitted and implemented in the FPGA, but I think it's fun to use the actual old processors: http://www.jkearney.com/8008/uMark8.htm Jim From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 17:53:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted Message-ID: I have an HP 5036A (actually two now) and was able to pick up one copy of the manual for $15 plus shipping on eBay last December. I haven't noticed any other copies go by on eBay since then, but I haven't looked too often. The 5036A kits show up frequently in the $20+ range, but almost always without the manaul. Since I only have the one copy I don't want to part with it now, but I could probably at least type in the ROM listing from the manual sometime if you don't have a copy of that. A quick Google search didn't turn up a copy of the ROM listing online anywhere. -Glen >I'm looking for a manual that goes with a HP 5036A Microprocessor Lab (8085 >trainer in a briefcase). The manual is "Practical Microprocessors" and was >published by HP some years ago. I am not looking for a museum piece, just a >manual to use with the Lab. > >I am also interested in accessories and information about the 5036A. > >If anyone has such a manual to sell or trade, please contact me off list. > >Thanks, >Stuart Johnson _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 12 18:02:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: what does ad say re Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <138.1c7a8414.2ba0d0a2@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > It seemed to me that the posting followed the rules of classic > capitalism, maximize your plusses, minimize your negatives and > let the buyer beware. Good US values. Well they may have been good in decades past, but now days it is let the seller beware and keep his attorney on retainer. - don From bkotaska at earthlink.net Wed Mar 12 18:04:00 2003 From: bkotaska at earthlink.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <61885598-54B6-11D7-B3A0-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <004601c2e8f1$c6a41680$0200a8c0@ath700> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Borsuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay > I have a PRO-LOG PM9052 board on my desk that I'm getting > ready to take the 1702's out of. Anyone know about this board. it has > PM9052 on it. It looks like some kind of board for buring eproms. > > Rob Borsuk > The PM9052 was a module used in the Pro-Log Series 90 Programmers. It was the personality module for 2716 and 2758 devices. The Series 90's were interesting because they used the Intel MCS-4 series of processors. The PROM(s) on each module contained the subroutines to implement the programming algorithms unique to each device. Most likely the code in your 1702's is 4004/4040 code. Bill Kotaska From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 12 18:08:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <005201c2e8ab$6d3f1ea0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> References: <005201c2e8ab$6d3f1ea0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <701337353.20030312180512@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, Bob Lafleur wrote: > I see that the seller backed off his opening price to an even $10,000. And > there are still no bids. ... I *hate* to see him scrap it. If it still ends with no bids, I can arrange a meeting with the seller to see the machine, and while there, try to convince him not to scrap it. -- Jeffrey Sharp From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 18:08:19 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <014801c2e8ec$e712f3a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <041701c2e8f2$064107d0$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <3E6FCAA7.4030401@jetnet.ab.ca> Jim Kearney wrote: > > This would be a fun project. I did a design (but haven't built) of a Mark-8 > using an FPGA and an 8008. The 8008 could be omitted and implemented in the > FPGA, but I think it's fun to use the actual old processors: > http://www.jkearney.com/8008/uMark8.htm Nice design , too bad the schematic is not PDF. I still would like to know how you debounce the front pannel.This looks to the best of both worlds as a DUD 8008 could even be used and it would still work. Ben. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 12 18:18:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 Message-ID: <200303130015.QAA09827@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm looking for a data sheet for the Synertek 6507. This is not the same as the reduced pin 6502's of the same number by other manufactures. This is a video control chip. If anyone has an old Synertek book with the programming information for one of these I'd like to get a photo copy?? Thanks Dwight From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Mar 12 18:28:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto References: Message-ID: <3E6FCDF5.4040301@gifford.co.uk> Adrian Vickers wrote: > The DIP switches aren't unsupported, they're actually documented... Could somebody post the documentation for those DIP-switches, please? Only I'd quite like to try the OPD out again someday. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 18:28:17 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <014801c2e8ec$e712f3a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <041701c2e8f2$064107d0$1301090a@xpace.net> <3E6FCAA7.4030401@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <044901c2e8f7$03569fd0$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "ben franchuk" > I still would like to know how you debounce the > front pannel. Look at the VHDL file debounce.vhd. It is a simple but effective digital debouncer. From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 18:34:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 References: <200303130015.QAA09827@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <044f01c2e8f7$c0ef7580$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > I'm looking for a data sheet for the Synertek 6507. > This is not the same as the reduced pin 6502's of the > same number by other manufactures. This is a video control > chip. If anyone has an old Synertek book with the > programming information for one of these I'd like > to get a photo copy?? According to my 1983 Synertek book, the SY6507 _is_ a 28-pin 65xx CPU with 8K addressing. The only video controllers they list are the SY6545, SY6845, SY66450 and SY66550. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 12 18:53:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 Message-ID: <200303130049.QAA09842@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Kearney" > >>From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >> I'm looking for a data sheet for the Synertek 6507. >> This is not the same as the reduced pin 6502's of the >> same number by other manufactures. This is a video control >> chip. If anyone has an old Synertek book with the >> programming information for one of these I'd like >> to get a photo copy?? > >According to my 1983 Synertek book, the SY6507 _is_ a 28-pin 65xx CPU with >8K addressing. The only video controllers they list are the SY6545, SY6845, >SY66450 and SY66550. > Hi Jim This is what Eric Smith tells me as well. As I told him, it doesn't make much sense. The board has a 6502 as well as the 6507 with the data lines tied together. I guess they could use opposite phases or something. I was tracing down the sync signals for the video and they seem to be coming from this part?? I do have a schematic someplace but I haven't located it yet. Now I have a mystery to solve? Dwight From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 12 19:03:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Paging James Rice Message-ID: James, I really need to hear from you this evening. I may not have access to email at all after we leave Austin in the morning. -- Doc Shipley From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 19:27:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 References: <200303130049.QAA09842@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <04a001c2e8ff$496a8f60$1301090a@xpace.net> > This is what Eric Smith tells me as well. As I told > him, it doesn't make much sense. The board has a 6502 > as well as the 6507 with the data lines tied together. > I guess they could use opposite phases or something. > I was tracing down the sync signals for the video > and they seem to be coming from this part?? > I do have a schematic someplace but I haven't located > it yet. > Now I have a mystery to solve? Possibly it's a variation of the Lancaster TVT (Cheap Video) design? What is it? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 12 19:59:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 Message-ID: <200303130155.RAA09911@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Kearney" > >> This is what Eric Smith tells me as well. As I told >> him, it doesn't make much sense. The board has a 6502 >> as well as the 6507 with the data lines tied together. >> I guess they could use opposite phases or something. >> I was tracing down the sync signals for the video >> and they seem to be coming from this part?? >> I do have a schematic someplace but I haven't located >> it yet. >> Now I have a mystery to solve? > >Possibly it's a variation of the Lancaster TVT (Cheap Video) design? > >What is it? > Hi Again, just what Eric said. It is for a KTM-2. This is Synertek's keyboard/video board. Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 12 19:59:21 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: V20 trivia (was: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: <3E6F2657.18401.9A78CC91@localhost> Message-ID: > > > Not that I know off. The V20 did behave exactly like an 8088. > > Besides, it wasn't a completely Bug-For-Bug replacement. NEC failed to > > implement some of the quirks of the 8088. For example, if an interrupt > > occurred during the execution of an instruction with a double prefix, the > > NEC would continue, but the intel would drop one of the prefixes when > > resuming. > > REP MOVSB DS:[SI] DS:[DI] > > will resume with a V20, but with an 8088 will only do one more rep after > > an interrupt. On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > Well, that's eactly the 186 behaviour. Now considering that the Not MY experience. The 386 is the first Intel that I'm aware of that fixed the double prefix bug. But NONE of the NEC v series had that bug. (ONE way to tell whether the current chip was Intel or NEC) > timeing was also exactly like 186 (or real mode 286), and the > instruction set is the same, I still think NEC just used the Did the V20 have the INSB/INSW/OUTSB/OUTSW instructions? (present in 80186/80188, but not 8086/8088 > 186 (188) core as template for the V20/V30 - Considering that > V40/50 where like the 186 with integrated perhipherals, you > may considere it as a two step knock off... BUT,... Other V20 instructions followed the 8088/8086 model. Such as what happens if you push SP. For example: MOV BX, SP PUSH SP MOV CX, SP POP AX ; will copy the value pushed by PUSH SP into AX. ; on the 8088/8086 and the V20, AX will equal CX ; on the 80186/80188, AX will equal BX (how to tell whether the chip is 8086/8088 v 80186/80188 or above) NEC fixed some of the bugs, but not all. Some of them were the basis for the decision in the Intel v NEC lawsuit. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Mar 12 20:04:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: RSTS/E CSR Access in MACRO In-Reply-To: References: <1047345825.1707.2042.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <1047520873.26667.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 18:22, John A. Dundas III wrote: > Chapter 11 deals with Ethernet programming. It indicates that a .SPEC call > documented in the System Directives manual is the way to go. Unfortunately > the manual indicates that the .SPEC call is too complicated for Basic; use > Macro. The correct revision System Directives manual is not available at > 'elvira' (yet?). However, if you could find the System Directives manual > for V9.4 or later, you should be able to do what you want with a .SPEC call. I do have the System Directives manual for RSTS/E 9.7. While there are various SPEC calls listed (including setting the mac address), there is none listed for reading the default mac address. I know that it is possible from user space, since show dev xh: will give the mac address. Once I figure it out, I'll be sure to post the answer here. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 20:06:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <014801c2e8ec$e712f3a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> <041701c2e8f2$064107d0$1301090a@xpace.net> <3E6FCAA7.4030401@jetnet.ab.ca> <044901c2e8f7$03569fd0$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <04c401c2e904$bf431220$1301090a@xpace.net> > Look at the VHDL file debounce.vhd. It is a simple but effective digital > debouncer. p.s. check out this Maxim appnote: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/287/ln/en It's an implementation of the same idea. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 12 20:10:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Pro-log and Mikbug In-Reply-To: <004601c2e8f1$c6a41680$0200a8c0@ath700> Message-ID: <75A66F34-54F8-11D7-9207-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Cool beans. I also have a PM9005 I'm stripping too (It has some 2102's that I can't stay away from). These fine parts are going for my Altair 680. On a side note, I'm going to be porting Mikbug to my Motorola Monoboard. Any gotchas associated with Mikbug. It looked like a pretty easy and straight forward port. Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 06:47 PM, Bill Kotaska wrote: > The PM9052 was a module used in the Pro-Log Series 90 Programmers. It > was > the personality module for 2716 and 2758 devices. The Series 90's were > interesting because they used the Intel MCS-4 series of processors. The > PROM(s) on each module contained the subroutines to implement the > programming algorithms unique to each device. Most likely the code in > your > 1702's is 4004/4040 code. > > Bill Kotaska From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 12 20:47:01 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 References: <200303130155.RAA09911@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <04e001c2e90a$7f4db8e0$1301090a@xpace.net> > Again, just what Eric said. It is for a KTM-2. > This is Synertek's keyboard/video board. > Dwight Neat! I really wanted one of those for my SYM-1 way back when. As I was a poor high schooler in 9179 I managed with a surplus keyboard scanned by software and some kind of serial video terminal card that I think I got from Mouser. For some reason Eric's post didn't come through here, but it sounds like we're on the same wavelength. There is a page about it in my Synertek catalog, but no schematics or much detail. The text says "The design of the KTM-2 incorporates 8 MOS-LSI integrated circuit chips, including two dedicated microprocessors.". The picture is not quite sharp enough to make out, but it _looks_ like two PIAs on the left to scan the keyboard matrix, then the two microprocessors, then a couple of ROMs on the right, with smaller ICs mixed in. If that's the case, then there is no CRTC, and it's probable that the 6507 is acting as the address and timing generator for the video. The text sorta supports this theory in that it says "More features are available at lower cost than if a CRT controller chip or other approach had been used." If you want a scan of the page I can send you one (tomorrow). From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 12 21:16:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:16 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <701337353.20030312180512@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > If it still ends with no bids, I can arrange a meeting with the seller to > see the machine, and while there, try to convince him not to scrap it. You may want to tell him the scrap value is not anything like $10,000. Four figures, but not five. And that is if he does the scrapping. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 12 21:27:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay References: Message-ID: <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >>If it still ends with no bids, I can arrange a meeting with the seller to >>see the machine, and while there, try to convince him not to scrap it. > > > You may want to tell him the scrap value is not anything like $10,000. > Four figures, but not five. And that is if he does the scrapping. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > So we need to pool 25 with $500 to buy a Univac. I don't want to see it scrapped. Ben. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 12 21:38:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > So we need to pool 25 with $500 to buy a Univac. Hmmm...I think trying to get *any* 25 of us together, and not have at least two folks with bullets/fists/flames flying, would be impossible! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Mar 12 22:37:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: V20 trivia (was: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > Not that I know off. The V20 did behave exactly like an 8088. > > > Besides, it wasn't a completely Bug-For-Bug replacement. NEC failed to > > > implement some of the quirks of the 8088. For example, if an interrupt > > > occurred during the execution of an instruction with a double prefix, the > > > NEC would continue, but the intel would drop one of the prefixes when > > > resuming. > > > REP MOVSB DS:[SI] DS:[DI] > > > will resume with a V20, but with an 8088 will only do one more rep after > > > an interrupt. > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > Well, that's eactly the 186 behaviour. Now considering that the > > Not MY experience. The 386 is the first Intel that I'm aware of that > fixed the double prefix bug. But NONE of the NEC v series had that > bug. (ONE way to tell whether the current chip was Intel or NEC) > > > timeing was also exactly like 186 (or real mode 286), and the > > instruction set is the same, I still think NEC just used the > > Did the V20 have the INSB/INSW/OUTSB/OUTSW instructions? (present in > 80186/80188, but not 8086/8088 Yep... We made use of them in the V40 that we used for many years in embedded Stuff. Plus the V40 has (had?) a really nice DMA controller. snip... Peter Wallace From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 12 22:53:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: V20 trivia (was: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > Did the V20 have the INSB/INSW/OUTSB/OUTSW instructions? (present in > > 80186/80188, but not 8086/8088 > Yep... We made use of them in the V40 that we used for many years in embedded > Stuff. Plus the V40 has (had?) a really nice DMA controller. V40. NOT V20. If it had the DMA controller then, then it presumably still does :-) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 12 23:35:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <14020934091.20030312233149@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, ben franchuk wrote: >> You may want to tell him the scrap value is not anything like $10,000. >> Four figures, but not five. And that is if he does the scrapping. > > So we need to pool 25 with $500 to buy a Univac. Even if someone handed me the necessary money, I'm not sure how I could handle the logistics. The easiest method of acquisition would be to acquire the semi trailer as well, hitch it up, and haul it off without removing the computer. But I can't drive a semi, and I don't know anyone who can or who has a semi. Plus, my time may be too limited to engage in the affair. -- Jeffrey Sharp From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Mar 13 00:16:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <14020934091.20030312233149@subatomix.com> References: <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030313005455.02904348@mail.30below.com> At 23:31 03/12/2003 -0600, you wrote: >On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > >> You may want to tell him the scrap value is not anything like $10,000. > >> Four figures, but not five. And that is if he does the scrapping. > > > > So we need to pool 25 with $500 to buy a Univac. > >Even if someone handed me the necessary money, I'm not sure how I could >handle the logistics. The easiest method of acquisition would be to acquire >the semi trailer as well, hitch it up, and haul it off without removing the >computer. But I can't drive a semi, and I don't know anyone who can or who >has a semi. Plus, my time may be too limited to engage in the affair. Sure you do... I can drive one! Learned when I was 17. My dad's a trucker, so I learned early. You'd actually be suprised with the # of people who know how to drive a rig [ lorry, for the Brits here ;-) ]. Now, who may be licensed... that's another story. My dad doesn't have an encased van - he hauls heavy equipment so whatever he hauls has to be "weather-stabile" or tarped; neither of which would be compatible with the Univac, I would think. This is a very rough guesstimate, but not counting possible permits or special packing/crating, you can expect to pay between 0.70 and 1.20 per mile... but that depends on a lot of stuff - if there are weight/time restrictions [cost goes up] but also - if it's a partial load, and the trucker can get another partial going to a similar place, the cost can go down... You're best bet would be to contact a trucking agent and have them make the arrangements for you (including bidding out the load to the truckers). Dunno what their cut is, tho - I only learned about the "grunt work" aspect of the business. ;-) If it's already crated/palletized, I would think it'd be easier to find whoever owns the trailer to drive it to a local loading bay, have the computer off-loaded, then loaded onto the "relocating" trailer. Otherwise, you may have to pay for "dead-head" miles - If the trucker uses his truck to haul the other trailer, chances are he may not take the chance of getting another partial going the same way (if he doesn't own the trailer... weird insurance stuff) and a lot slimmer chances of him getting another load back to get his trailer, so you'll prolly be liable for a round trip, which gets $$$ a lot quicker... -- And you may want to put in the bid that the trucker should have a rig with a sleeping cab - otherwise, you may get stuck with motel bills. (AFAIK, most trucking agents would know if you'd get zinged with that ahead of time...) Hope that give a bit o'insight to the sordid realm of a "Commodity Relocator..." ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 13 01:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <701337353.20030312180512@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > I see that the seller backed off his opening price to an even $10,000. And > > there are still no bids. ... I *hate* to see him scrap it. > > If it still ends with no bids, I can arrange a meeting with the seller to > see the machine, and while there, try to convince him not to scrap it. He's had it for years now. I doubt he's going to scrap it. Michael Nadeau brought to attention the fact that the seller was featured in Chapter 7 of Kevin Stumpf's book on collecting computers. He detailed the back in 1997 how he tried to buy the machine from the seller but even had a problem back then. This guy will hold onto it until someone offers him twice what he thinks he can get. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Mar 13 02:06:01 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay References: Message-ID: <031901c2e936$e8ac31a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hmmm, even noncooperative sellers eventually die. I'd be on the lookout for his beneficiairies ..... Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:05 AM Subject: Re: Univac III on Ebay > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > I see that the seller backed off his opening price to an even $10,000. And > > > there are still no bids. ... I *hate* to see him scrap it. > > > > If it still ends with no bids, I can arrange a meeting with the seller to > > see the machine, and while there, try to convince him not to scrap it. > > He's had it for years now. I doubt he's going to scrap it. > > Michael Nadeau brought to attention the fact that the seller was featured > in Chapter 7 of Kevin Stumpf's book on collecting computers. He detailed > the back in 1997 how he tried to buy the machine from the seller but even > had a problem back then. > > This guy will hold onto it until someone offers him twice what he thinks > he can get. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Mar 13 02:16:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c2e938$624eb180$8042cd18@D73KSM11> > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > I see that the seller backed off his opening price to an even > > > $10,000. And there are still no bids. ... I *hate* to see > him scrap > > > it. > > > > If it still ends with no bids, I can arrange a meeting with > the seller > > to see the machine, and while there, try to convince him > not to scrap > > it. > > He's had it for years now. I doubt he's going to scrap it. > > Michael Nadeau brought to attention the fact that the seller > was featured in Chapter 7 of Kevin Stumpf's book on > collecting computers. He detailed the back in 1997 how he > tried to buy the machine from the seller but even had a > problem back then. > > This guy will hold onto it until someone offers him twice > what he thinks he can get. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival He apparently tried to trade it for an antique car back in '96. See: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=DyHI n5.ML2%40iglou.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522univac%2B3%2522%26hl%3 Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3DDyHIn5.ML2% 2540iglou.com%26rnum%3D1 From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 13 02:18:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay References: <031901c2e936$e8ac31a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <000e01c2e938$030b2e60$0400fea9@game> Why didnt this guy sell the machine during the ".com" bubble when everybody was stock rich and were buying vintage equipment like crazy? This guy was sitting on a Rolls Royce during the 20's and decides to sell it after the market crash.. not very smart. If this guy kicks the bucket you know the machine will end up in the scrap yard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sipke de Wal" To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:02 AM Subject: Re: Univac III on Ebay > Hmmm, even noncooperative sellers eventually die. > I'd be on the lookout for his beneficiairies ..... > > Sipke de Wal > -------------------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > -------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:05 AM > Subject: Re: Univac III on Ebay > > > > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > > I see that the seller backed off his opening price to an even $10,000. And > > > > there are still no bids. ... I *hate* to see him scrap it. > > > > > > If it still ends with no bids, I can arrange a meeting with the seller to > > > see the machine, and while there, try to convince him not to scrap it. > > > > He's had it for years now. I doubt he's going to scrap it. > > > > Michael Nadeau brought to attention the fact that the seller was featured > > in Chapter 7 of Kevin Stumpf's book on collecting computers. He detailed > > the back in 1997 how he tried to buy the machine from the seller but even > > had a problem back then. > > > > This guy will hold onto it until someone offers him twice what he thinks > > he can get. > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 13 03:22:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Can one make their own chips? In-Reply-To: <1ec.407293c.2ba0d333@aol.com> Message-ID: <3E705BB2.6208.9F313951@localhost> > > you can't make a 8008 chip from scratch > In the discussion of wafers it made me wonder if one could lay down their own > design in Silicon. or duplicate an early design like the 8008 (lets not get > into a discussion of copyrights). > Does anyone collect FAB equipment? A small clean room would not be hard to > set up. At one time I saw a 3 inch mask aligner go for $25. I bought the 4 > inch Mask Aligner for $150. There is so much old FAB Equipment around it > seems one should be able to set up a home lab. Does anyone know of one in > existence? Well, I could add a stepper table from the first 16K prototype production here at Siemens (now Infinion) ... Beside that, I think it may be ceaper to use comercial available capacities. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 13 03:23:59 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <200303121740.JAA09449@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E705BB2.30291.9F313941@localhost> > >BTW: I realy love wafer masks ... they are just a bit hard to find. > >So if one of y'all (sp?) got some laying around ... > >I got to ask this...what's a wafer mask...what's it look like? > These are usually made on a glass plate. They look > like a larger version of only one of the dies of a wafer. > Some are actual size but most are done with steppers now days. > The glass has a thin metal coat on one side ( mirror looking ). > I think they use chromium but I don't recall. You can see > that layer's detail by holding it up to the light. The metal > has been remove in places. It is kind of like a negative and > used the same way. Well, the ones I have are always for a whole wafer. I never seen masks which are just good for a single die. Also they are usualy same size as the final wafers. Well, I guess tehre's a lot more out there. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 13 03:28:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E6F8797.70207@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E705CFD.11839.9F36457E@localhost> > > I wouldn't consider it "original" because it is missing one crucial > > element: this is not 1974. > So you are a little slow in finishing huh. :) > Lets say I homebrewed a computer using a 8008 rather than the Mark-8, > in 1975, and put it on e-bay today. Just because it is not as well > know as the Mark 8 , does this make it less of a collectors item > since it too is a 'original item'? This is one if the mysteries of the classic computer market. In my eyes, such a computer would even be more valueable than a Mark-8, since it shows some of the open ends of evolution. The hype about names has often be an issue on the list, though I still miss a satisfying conclusion. One of the KIMs I own is eventualy the best example. It's serial numer 0001, which makes it, by any mean, THE first 6502 computer at all, and probably the first 6502 CPU - as far as this can go. Most definitly, this baby might fetch a god pirce (that is _IF_ i would ever sell it), still I doubt that it will go over what an Apple 1 can make. Even considering the outstanding historic relevance (beside that to me a KIM is still way more cool than an Apple), and that even KIMs get to be somewhat higher prices, the whole thing is in no way understandable. My only conclusion is that people pay for hyped up names (see the ridiculous for turnkey IMSAI/Altairs), and not historic value - they just belive that the hype has so real background. > ALSO lets not talk about GEORGE, I am tired all this beating around the > Bush.!! I guess that's the problem... Nobody tries to beat him personaly ... SCNR Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 13 03:45:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 In-Reply-To: <200303130049.QAA09842@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E70611C.9747.9F4660B9@localhost> > >According to my 1983 Synertek book, the SY6507 _is_ a 28-pin 65xx CPU with > >8K addressing. The only video controllers they list are the SY6545, SY6845, > >SY66450 and SY66550. > Hi Jim > This is what Eric Smith tells me as well. As I told > him, it doesn't make much sense. The board has a 6502 > as well as the 6507 with the data lines tied together. > I guess they could use opposite phases or something. > I was tracing down the sync signals for the video > and they seem to be coming from this part?? Now it would be interesting where they go. Maybe the 6507 CPU get's an interupt every line, or screen ? > Now I have a mystery to solve? That's all what classic computing or computing in general is about. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 13 04:28:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: V20 trivia (was: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, IBM PC schematics In-Reply-To: References: <3E6F2657.18401.9A78CC91@localhost> Message-ID: <3E706B12.3260.9F6D4812@localhost> > > > > Not that I know off. The V20 did behave exactly like an 8088. > > > Besides, it wasn't a completely Bug-For-Bug replacement. NEC failed to > > > implement some of the quirks of the 8088. For example, if an interrupt > > > occurred during the execution of an instruction with a double prefix, the > > > NEC would continue, but the intel would drop one of the prefixes when > > > resuming. > > > REP MOVSB DS:[SI] DS:[DI] > > > will resume with a V20, but with an 8088 will only do one more rep after > > > an interrupt. > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > Well, that's eactly the 186 behaviour. Now considering that the > Not MY experience. The 386 is the first Intel that I'm aware of that > fixed the double prefix bug. But NONE of the NEC v series had that > bug. (ONE way to tell whether the current chip was Intel or NEC) I have to step back here. I always thought the 186 had this already fixed. Maybe I'm mixing up these two CPUs. Didn't the 80C86/88 also have the double prefix bug fixed ? > > timeing was also exactly like 186 (or real mode 286), and the > > instruction set is the same, I still think NEC just used the > Did the V20 have the INSB/INSW/OUTSB/OUTSW instructions? (present in > 80186/80188, but not 8086/8088 It had all the 186 extensions, especialy Enter, Leave, Pusha Popa, Ins, Outs and Imul. I can't gurantee for Bound, 'cause I never used that on a V20 (but I did on the 186). Furtermore the V20 did include a bunch of new, nice instructions (if in 86 mode). Just I know of no software to use them. For example, A bunch of operations for 4 Bit values - aka BCD and Bitoperations. > > 186 (188) core as template for the V20/V30 - Considering that > > V40/50 where like the 186 with integrated perhipherals, you > > may considere it as a two step knock off... > > BUT,... > Other V20 instructions followed the 8088/8086 model. > Such as what happens if you push SP. For example: > MOV BX, SP > PUSH SP > MOV CX, SP > POP AX > ; will copy the value pushed by PUSH SP into AX. > ; on the 8088/8086 and the V20, AX will equal CX > ; on the 80186/80188, AX will equal BX > (how to tell whether the chip is 8086/8088 v 80186/80188 or above) Excuse me ? AFAIR that's the way to check if you had a 286 or above. the 186 did behave exactly like the 86. the pushed SP is the decremented value, while 286 and above push the original value, and the test (at least as I did it) was: PUSH SP POP AX CMP AX,SP Equal -> 286 or above, Not Equal -> 186 or below. To test for 186/88 vs 86/88 (and V20/30) was using the shift operation. starting with th 186, the shift value was anded by 1Fh. So you would load any value except Zero into AX and load CL with 32, execute a shift. If the resulting AX was Zero, it was an 86/88 (of V20/30), if not it was a 186 or above. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 13 05:23:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030313005455.02904348@mail.30below.com> References: <14020934091.20030312233149@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E707819.6015.9FA02A61@localhost> > > >> You may want to tell him the scrap value is not anything like $10,000. > > >> Four figures, but not five. And that is if he does the scrapping. > > > So we need to pool 25 with $500 to buy a Univac. > Sure you do... I can drive one! Learned when I was 17. My dad's a trucker, > so I learned early. You'd actually be suprised with the # of people who > know how to drive a rig [ lorry, for the Brits here ;-) ]. Now, who may be > licensed... that's another story. Well, I guess my german military lizence will not be recogniced in the US. Although, it would be fun to haul a Univac across the states... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Mar 13 07:49:01 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <14020934091.20030312233149@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <00a701c2e966$882a3a40$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> You're forgetting that (per the auction) even if you purchase the trailer, it is not driveable as is; it needs tires and other work. Not so simple as to just hitch it up and go... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:32 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Univac III on Ebay On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, ben franchuk wrote: >> You may want to tell him the scrap value is not anything like >> $10,000. Four figures, but not five. And that is if he does the >> scrapping. > > So we need to pool 25 with $500 to buy a Univac. Even if someone handed me the necessary money, I'm not sure how I could handle the logistics. The easiest method of acquisition would be to acquire the semi trailer as well, hitch it up, and haul it off without removing the computer. But I can't drive a semi, and I don't know anyone who can or who has a semi. Plus, my time may be too limited to engage in the affair. -- Jeffrey Sharp From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 13 09:43:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay References: <000001c2e938$624eb180$8042cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <002301c2e976$c1d88340$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe= > UTF-8&threadm=DyHIn5.ML2%40iglou.com&rnum=1&prev > =/groups%3Fq%3D%2522univac%2B3%2522%26hl%3De > n%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scorin > g%3Dd%26selm%3DDyHIn5.ML2%2540iglou.com%26rnu > m%3D1 FYI Here's a simpler link to the same article: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=DyHIn5.ML2@iglou.com John A. THX to everybody doing the research. From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 13 09:43:44 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507, dual 6502s, SuperPets and Watcom References: <200303130155.RAA09911@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <004f01c2e976$d2e79400$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> > >> This is what Eric Smith tells me as well. As I told > >> him, it doesn't make much sense. The board has a 6502 > >> as well as the 6507 with the data lines tied together. > >> I guess they could use opposite phases or something. > >> I was tracing down the sync signals for the video > >> and they seem to be coming from this part?? > >> I do have a schematic someplace but I haven't located > >> it yet. > >> Now I have a mystery to solve? I have an old Voelker-Craig terminal that uses this video generation scheme. The Design uses two (count em) two 6502s, but only one runs rom code. The other steps through a few 2114s as video ram. add a latch, shift register - voila video. Think of the 6502 running on an inverted E clock with some bits used as a rather expensive (even then) binary counter. I would have used 74LS393s ;) Using some low order bits to address ram while using higher ones for H and V sync would work. Strangely, the whole system was clocked from a 4x colourburst xtal:) > >Possibly it's a variation of the Lancaster TVT (Cheap Video) design? Cheap video actually used the CPU and an ISR to generate video, right? This two CPU design didn't. Somehow they avoided the usual vram muxes- maybe the 2nd 6502 clocked a read out of vram, and write to the shiftreg ;) Interestingly, the University of Waterloo Computer Systems Group designed a little board that had a 6502 ~and a 6809, an LS123 and a switch - plugged right into the 6502 socket on the PET 8032 mainboard to allow the proto SuperPet (later SP9000) to run real languages on 96K of 16K Dram and bank switched roms. Later Superpets had a Synertek 6551 uart and copyrighted "poems" burned into obscure Harris fuse proms to prevent easy copying of the hardware. Both CPUS were essentially tied together (ie A0 on 6502 to A0 on the 6809 etc) - the switch held one or the other CPU in reset under manual or reg. control. Of course some finagling was required with ROM selects to allow each CPU to run only it's ROM. FLEX or OS-9 would have been nice on this instead of Commodore's ugly "DOS". Still, with a real baby-PDP-11-ish 6809 CPU with 16 bit index registers and good addressing modes, the CSG was able to miraculously offer APL, and structured "Waterloo" flavours of Fortran, Basic, Cobol, Pascal and ASM written in WSL - a C-like Waterloo Systems Language. These products were later offered by Watcom for the Cemcorp Icon running on an early 186 based QNX system, and IBM PCs in early 80s. Watcom for quite a while held speed records for their excellent PC/DOS C and Fortran compilers which now updated and offered as openware- seeopenwatcom.org. Watcom was bought by Sybase to capitalize on it's SQL-Anywhere product and dropped other language compilers/interpreters. H From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 13 10:48:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay In-Reply-To: <041701c2e8f2$064107d0$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <20030313164526.74929.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Kearney wrote: > > Though you might salvage a plastic 8008 from an 11/34 or pdp8a (??) I have a ceramic 8008 on an 11/34 console board sitting in a pile. I could certainly borrow it for this application. I've been thinking of a Mark-8, but I will probably never have enough time to build an original. This one (or the uMark8) sounds feasible. > 'New' and working 8008's are not that hard to come by. I recently bought > 15 of them for a project (http://www.jkearney.com/tiny8demo/) and could > get more if necessary. Not cheap, though. How much is "not cheap"? $50? More? Would you consider a group buy of the Tiny-8 design? I doubt I'd want to build one at prototype-PCB costs. -ethan From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 13 11:33:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: <3E705CFD.11839.9F36457E@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > The hype about names has often be an issue on the list, though > I still miss a satisfying conclusion. One of the KIMs I own is > eventualy the best example. It's serial numer 0001, which makes > it, by any mean, THE first 6502 computer at all, and probably > the first 6502 CPU - as far as this can go. Most definitly, this > baby might fetch a god pirce (that is _IF_ i would ever sell it), > still I doubt that it will go over what an Apple 1 can make. > > Even considering the outstanding historic relevance (beside that > to me a KIM is still way more cool than an Apple), and that even > KIMs get to be somewhat higher prices, the whole thing is in no > way understandable. The Apple-1 had built-in video. Only 200 were made. Probably less than 50 still exist. It also represents the start of the Apple Computer Company (now Apple Computer Inc.) The KIM-1 was just a single board trainer. Perhaps thousands were made. At least hundreds still exist. Commodore is dead :) But Hans, I don't mean to rain on your parade. Your KIM-1 is truly rare and unique and incredibly historical given all that you mentioned. And you can't tell me the offer you received at VCF 5.0 didn't approach what a bare Apple-1 would sell for ;) > My only conclusion is that people pay for hyped up names (see > the ridiculous for turnkey IMSAI/Altairs), and not historic > value - they just belive that the hype has so real background. And your point is? :) This has been the way of things for a long time. I call it the "Beanie Baby" or "Collect all 4!" mentality. They aren't collecting for actual relevance, but only for what they see others collecting and the hype surrounding it. > > ALSO lets not talk about GEORGE, I am tired all this beating around the > > Bush.!! > > I guess that's the problem... Nobody tries to beat him personaly ... > SCNR I know how to solve the Federal deficit. Sell tickets good for giving a personal beating to the Bush. You'll have a line of people wrapped around Washington waiting for their turn. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jim at jkearney.com Thu Mar 13 11:53:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay References: <20030313164526.74929.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1b2001c2e988$f02d7450$1301090a@xpace.net> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > How much is "not cheap"? $50? More? The last quote I had (a few months ago) was $40 ea for NOS C8008's in 20 qty. > Would you consider a group buy of the Tiny-8 design? I doubt I'd > want to build one at prototype-PCB costs. Sure, and since the fab still has the masks etc. saved (I hope), there would be no NRE, so they would only cost around $15 each in qty 20. I also have a stock of most of the parts with datecodes <= 1980. What happened last time was that I sold one on eBay and got a number of private orders in addition due to the auction's advertising effect. Jim From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 13 12:00:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: George Bush owns a Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit In-Reply-To: References: <3E705CFD.11839.9F36457E@localhost> Message-ID: <3E70D514.20777.A10B6188@localhost> > > Even considering the outstanding historic relevance (beside that > > to me a KIM is still way more cool than an Apple), and that even > > KIMs get to be somewhat higher prices, the whole thing is in no > > way understandable. > The Apple-1 had built-in video. Only 200 were made. Probably less than > 50 still exist. It also represents the start of the Apple Computer > Company (now Apple Computer Inc.) > The KIM-1 was just a single board trainer. Perhaps thousands were made. > At least hundreds still exist. Commodore is dead :) Who cares about Commodore (*ups - duck and cover*), real KIMS where made by MOS! > But Hans, I don't mean to rain on your parade. Your KIM-1 is truly rare > and unique and incredibly historical given all that you mentioned. And > you can't tell me the offer you received at VCF 5.0 didn't approach what > a bare Apple-1 would sell for ;) It was only 62% of the last A1 you sold ... and even less considering prior sales. > > My only conclusion is that people pay for hyped up names (see > > the ridiculous for turnkey IMSAI/Altairs), and not historic > > value - they just belive that the hype has so real background. > And your point is? :) This has been the way of things for a long time. I > call it the "Beanie Baby" or "Collect all 4!" mentality. They aren't > collecting for actual relevance, but only for what they see others > collecting and the hype surrounding it. Shure, but that stuff is by any mean wothless anyway, so the value is strict hype, while classiccomps have at least a historc value. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Mar 13 12:18:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 Message-ID: <200303131814.KAA10100@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Hans Franke" > >> >According to my 1983 Synertek book, the SY6507 _is_ a 28-pin 65xx CPU with >> >8K addressing. The only video controllers they list are the SY6545, SY6845, >> >SY66450 and SY66550. > >> Hi Jim >> This is what Eric Smith tells me as well. As I told >> him, it doesn't make much sense. The board has a 6502 >> as well as the 6507 with the data lines tied together. >> I guess they could use opposite phases or something. >> I was tracing down the sync signals for the video >> and they seem to be coming from this part?? > >Now it would be interesting where they go. Maybe the >6507 CPU get's an interupt every line, or screen ? > >> Now I have a mystery to solve? > >That's all what classic computing or computing in >general is about. Hi Hans Both Eric and Jim were right. It is a 6507 uP. I looked some more at the board and did some tracing. I'll have to admit, I'd never have thought of it. There is an address mux going to the code ROM. The clock input are in fact 180 degrees out of phase ( Q and Q\ of a JK-flop ). The sync signals come from the high order address bits as well. The code for making a sync signal is just to do a load from the higher address. Now, I have to get the code out of the ROM so I can see exactly how it was done. It would seem that the 6507 just runs a loop that makes the needed strobes and the 6502 does the keyboard scan and RS-232. Very clever! It makes one think how simple things could be today using several PIC chips to do relatively complex task and replace expensive dedicated chips. Dwight From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Mar 13 14:11:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Univac III on Ebay In-Reply-To: <14020934091.20030312233149@subatomix.com> References: <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E6FF940.1000100@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030313145236.063e4700@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> I knew of a truck driver ( I say knew because I haven't been in contact with them in a while ) that hauled boats, I believe in the Ohio to Florida route if I remember correctly. I think he drove the tractor back without the trailer sometimes. They wanted me and a friend of mine to pick up some surplus stuff for them in the past, and there was some talk on their end of hauling stuff in return for picking up their stuff. I'm really not sure how reliable it all was. I never wanted to get in the position of depending on it and then finding out it wasn't getting done. My friend did pick up some of their stuff up north with his permanently rented 24' Ryder and had it at his warehouse for a while. They also picked up some of his stuff in areas where they were going to. Eventually they showed up to get their stuff from my friend, but I'm not sure they ever brought him his stuff? Anyway, if you all want to get it, I could check to see if they wanted to hitch up and haul your trailer for you. If you let him keep the trailer, that might motivate him? Or covering his fuel? It would probably take someone out in the country with some space and zoning permission to either park the trailer, or someone with a building along that corridor that could off load and store the system. I doubt, on what I've sometimes heard called a "gypsy load", they would want to detour too far off their pre-established routes. At 11:31 PM 3/12/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > >> You may want to tell him the scrap value is not anything like $10,000. > >> Four figures, but not five. And that is if he does the scrapping. > > > > So we need to pool 25 with $500 to buy a Univac. > >Even if someone handed me the necessary money, I'm not sure how I could >handle the logistics. The easiest method of acquisition would be to acquire >the semi trailer as well, hitch it up, and haul it off without removing the >computer. But I can't drive a semi, and I don't know anyone who can or who >has a semi. Plus, my time may be too limited to engage in the affair. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Mar 13 14:16:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 References: <200303131814.KAA10100@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E70E6CE.9090109@gifford.co.uk> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Both Eric and Jim were right. It is a 6507 uP. I looked > some more at the board and did some tracing. ... > The clock input are in fact 180 > degrees out of phase ( Q and Q\ of a JK-flop ). The sync > signals come from the high order address bits as well. ... > Very clever! Isn't that how the Fairlight CMI (Computer Musical Instrument) works? Only with 6800s instead of 6502/6507? Does anyone on the list have a CMI? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 13 14:22:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Big Want List Message-ID: I'm working on a rather large project and am looking for the following computers and hardware: Cromemco Z2D (and periperhals) Cromemco System Three (and peripherals) Centronics printer (103 or any model) DEC Rainbow 100 (and peripherals) DEC Pro350 Heathkit H11 (and peripherals) Micro-Term ACT I (terminal) NEC SpinWriter NorthStar Dimension Ohio Scientific Challenger (any model, prefer II or III) OSM Zeus (any model) SWTPc 6800 (and peripherals) Vector Graphics (prefer MZ/2) Fortune Systems 32:16 Dynalogic Hyperion Corvus Concept (and peripherals) (Peripherals include monitors, keyboards, terminals, disk drives, hard drives, printers, etc.) I am also interested in any and all collateral material including: * System software (originals preferred) * Application software (originals preferred) * Manuals and schematics * Related magazines * Related books * Ephemera such as posters, buttons, mugs, etc. If you have anything on the above list please contact me with an asking price. International or domestic. I can also be reached by phone at +1 925/294-5900. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vance at neurotica.com Thu Mar 13 14:45:23 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Dave & Chip Collecting In-Reply-To: <3E6E35AE.16840.96CCB888@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > Shure, it's easy to get Sallam upset (and sometimes fun), but that does > lack the needed commen sense. Fun? Certainly. No offense to our good Sellam, but I nearly peed my pants reading the "AAAAAASSSSSS!!!" episode. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Mar 13 14:46:52 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <000901c2e832$9c1c3ba0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: An extremely new wafer can be valuable just by the ability to reverse newfangled engineering. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Before anyone goes in trying to cash in their wafers...I assume any > wafer that was not kept in a clean room environment is worthless. The > couple of wafers I have finger prints so they definitely are worthless! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 13 14:47:06 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ade, can you CC me in on replies to this? Ta :) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 12 March 2003 10:14 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > I've been told they do tone dialling too, based on the unsupported DIP > > switches in the telephony module. Haven't tried it though; > > all of my OPDs > > are downstairs in boxes. > > The DIP switches aren't unsupported, they're actually documented... That's where I'm falling down - I haven't got any documentation! > in the world) in 1986. I think (not tried this) that it can respond with > a different message on each line, and it can change messages depending > on the time of day - but not day of week... See my follow-up on the technical breakdown on the answering gubbins :) > It definitely can't say "good morning", as "good" isn't in the > vocabulary :) *now* you've made me want to get a machine out just to check, but I'm sure it is....a task for tomorrow..... > > actually recorded their OPDs saying rude things, so I just > > *had* to have a > > go myself....hehe..... > > Erm, "not so long ago"? Sort of like 1987, maybe? Nope, last year. At least two of the contestants did their entries on real OPDs..... > What's this about a hi-res monitor? I assume you mean a larger one than > the 9" B&W which seems to be the norm for these machines? Is it colour? There was 2 (if not 3) monitor choices - hi-res colour Microvitec as used on the OPD, low-res colour and mono 9" as used on the Tonto. The low-res colour I've not seen examples of, but I've got the other 2. > I'd like to get a pin-out of the monitor/power connector - I'm not sure > if it's in any of the manuals I've got. Not sure I can help there. > I can scan mine in if you like. I don't believe I'm doing anything on > Sunday yet... If you can do that there's some beerz in it for you :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 13 14:48:26 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer ? In-Reply-To: <000001c2e844$1396df30$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Fred deBros > Sent: 12 March 2003 03:04 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: DEC InfoServer ? > > > Specifically: Does anybody have the pinout to the db25 (not a db 15!) > plug of the infoserver 150 model SEACD - AX - A01 in the back? The > caption above the plug shows a square with an up-arrow in it. Monitor? > Combo kbd/mouse/monitor? Fully standard RS232 for modem connections. > And the S1 switch nearby that switches regular vs3100's between serial > and terminal console mode. > Does that mean it has a built-in framebuffer for at least b/w like all > vs3100's and can serve as a console? Nope. Console is the left-most MMJ port on the back and is for something like a VT420. No framebuffer in these things.... > There are three mmj plugs in the back, named 1,2 and 3 with horiz arrows > to left and right: why three serial consoles? All simultaneous? The 150's using the same hardware as a VAXstation so it gets 4 serial lines too. > And two scsi terminators. Two scsi buses? > So where does the kbd go??? Into the VT420 :) > Otherwise the box looks just like a vs3100 to me, so it should run > netbsd1.6. BTW for those who play with it: Ping works on a vs3100m38, > although it does not return the pkt count to console, so it looks > broken....hate dead dinosaurs! Try telnet instead and bingo! There's definitely ROM differences since I don't recall ever getting a dead sergeant prompt (>>>), it just auto-booted. Mind, we were using it in a production environment so I didn't get much time to play with it....still, it's downstairs now and I've been talking about doing a hardware comparison for weeks now :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From jruschme at comcast.net Thu Mar 13 14:48:44 2003 From: jruschme at comcast.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: FS Items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1047482268.3099.3.camel@othello> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 09:46, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > A few more items I've got to offer to the list. I can take Paypal or > Check/Money Order for payment. Everything below is $10 + shipping, with > discounts for buying multiple items. > > + 3Com SuperStack HUB 10: 24port 10BaseT Hub, rackmountable. > I've got a lot of these available to me. > > + Panasonic LaserDisc player > > + Apple Macintosh Plus 1MB - have keyboard and monitor > > + Sun SparcStation 5, 85MHz, CG6, 32-64MB ram, 2GB HDD > > + Tatung CompStation LC - A pizzabox Sun Sparcstation LC clone > - CG6, have to check how much memory I have available, probably 4GB HDD Hi! I'm possibly interested in the SS5 or the Tatung. Any idea what Sun box the Tatung is equivalent to? Also any idea of shipping costs to NJ (07724). Thanks... -- John Ruschmeyer jruschme@comcast.net "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad for IE "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 13 14:48:59 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Infoserver 150VXT pix In-Reply-To: <3E6521B3.5080607@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi folks, Here you go: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/infoserver.htm :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Thu Mar 13 14:49:15 2003 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (JimD) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: OT: Software Documentation References: Message-ID: <3E6F7D1A.B789D69D@hotmail.com> Might want to look at this: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/cweb.html The CWEB System of Structured Documentation. I haven't used it. It integrates doc, design and revision control. Jim Davis. Brian Chase wrote: > > -brian. From c.morris at townsqr.com Thu Mar 13 14:49:31 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Need ASR-33 tape reader and punch covers Message-ID: <002101c2e8cc$7f81ca60$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> I need the little spring-loaded plastic cover on the ASR-33 tape reader that holds the paper tape in position over the sprocket and contacts. The whole thing is missing (the cover, spring and latch). Also my tape punch is missing the rectangular cover with the four clear plastic pushbuttons. If anyone has spare parts to sell, please contact me offlist at: charlesmorris at direcway dot com. thanks Charles From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 13 14:49:46 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 12 March 2003 10:27 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > Actually, I may be able to transfer via floppy disk, as I have an OPD > disk interface (How cool is that? I even have the manuals!) - it plugs > into the ROM pack. The one unknown at this time is what format the > floppy is written in; but since it at least takes the same drives as the > QL, it should be possible to read one way or another. Unlike Commodore's > damn GCR format. Hehe, given the rest of the OPD stuff I'd be VERY surprised if the floppy format is compatible :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Mar 13 14:53:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: FS Items In-Reply-To: <1047482268.3099.3.camel@othello> Message-ID: > On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 09:46, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > A few more items I've got to offer to the list. I can take Paypal or > > Check/Money Order for payment. Everything below is $10 + shipping, with > > discounts for buying multiple items. > > > > + 3Com SuperStack HUB 10: 24port 10BaseT Hub, rackmountable. > > I've got a lot of these available to me. > > > > + Panasonic LaserDisc player > > > > + Apple Macintosh Plus 1MB - have keyboard and monitor > > > > + Sun SparcStation 5, 85MHz, CG6, 32-64MB ram, 2GB HDD > > > > + Tatung CompStation LC - A pizzabox Sun Sparcstation LC clone > > - CG6, have to check how much memory I have available, probably 4GB HDD The Tatung has been taken. Thanks. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From dittman at dittman.net Thu Mar 13 14:54:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer ? In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Mar 12, 2003 10:03:45 AM Message-ID: <20030313204922.495597F47@dittman.net> > There's definitely ROM differences since I don't recall ever getting a dead > sergeant prompt (>>>), it just auto-booted. Mind, we were using it in a > production environment so I didn't get much time to play with it....still, > it's downstairs now and I've been talking about doing a hardware comparison > for weeks now :) You can get the >>> prompt on an Infoserver. I think if you boot without the network attached you get the prompt, otherwise you hit BREAK/^P/something else while booting. I can't remember at the moment, but I've done it before. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 13 15:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 In-Reply-To: <3E70E6CE.9090109@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, John Honniball wrote: > Isn't that how the Fairlight CMI (Computer Musical Instrument) works? > Only with 6800s instead of 6502/6507? Does anyone on the list have > a CMI? What an AWESOME synth! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2514595055&category=38071 But I won't pay $5,600 for one :( More info: http://www.ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/ http://www.vintagesynth.org/misc/fairlight_cmi.shtml http://www.obsolete.com/120_years/machines/fairlight/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From peter at stormlash.net Thu Mar 13 15:03:01 2003 From: peter at stormlash.net (Peter Sahlstrom) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #417 - 55 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030313203931.58729.96868.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> (cctech-request@classiccmp.org) References: <20030313203931.58729.96868.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030313205947.74EA11DFA9@acmex.gatech.edu> > From: "Chandra Bajpai" > To: > Subject: RE: collecting silicon wafers > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:02:08 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I got to ask this...what's a wafer mask...what's it look like? > > -Chandra It is the layout used to produce designs on a silicon wafer. They are usually square, and made of quartz (to minimize UV dispersal), with a coating of etched chromium on one side. When photoresist has been deposited on a wafer, the wafer is loaded into a mask aligner. This allows the mask to be aligned with existing patterns on the wafer before being exposed to UV light. Once the exposure is complete, the wafer is developed, and a pattern of hardened photoresist is left behind. This is then used to control deposition areas in later steps of the process. -Peter -- Peter Sahlstrom __ __ ( ) ____ _____ CMOS Process Technician / \ / \ _ / __ \ / ___/ GT Microelectronics Research Center / /\ \/ /\ \ | | / _ _/ / /__ peter@stormlash.net /_/ \__/ \_\ |_| /_/ \_\ \___/ From davol at globalnet.co.uk Thu Mar 13 15:05:01 2003 From: davol at globalnet.co.uk (Dave Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <20030313180001.57451.63501.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sridhar wrote: > > An extremely new wafer can be valuable just by the ability to reverse > newfangled engineering. > > Peace... Sridhar Can't see this myself. Yes. I know it's theoretically possible (just) Modern chips are to all intents and purposes three dimensional objects. The real logic lies, out of sight below several layers of metal conductor. It's just this, incidentally, that makes them of limited interest to a collector. (There's not much to see on the surface anymore) So OK, you could probe them with X-rays or something like that or try etching away the layers with acids. My own view is that this is just about as impossible a task as one can possibly imagine. After you've done all of this you'd have to reverse your way back to the masks (which, these days, are quite distinct from the geometries they produce on silicon. AND THEN you have to have a fabrication available to you that is capable of putting the whole thing back together again. Much easier just to steal the design database. The forward engineering is quite difficult enough. It's my own belief that reverse engineering is - practically speaking - intractable. If this really is so appealing to sinister governments etc. why not just reverse engineer the chip they bought legitimately, by mail order. > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > > Before anyone goes in trying to cash in their wafers...I assume any > > wafer that was not kept in a clean room environment is worthless. The > > couple of wafers I have finger prints so they definitely are worthless! I'd respectfully suggest that the concept of value is not quite as straightforward as you suggest, Chandra. How much would your two wafers be worth if I were willing to buy them off you? Postage stamps are just about as 'worthless' as anyone could imagine, yet I'm regularly sent catalogues offering stamps at prices that amount to more than my annual salary. From steven_nikkel at ertyu.org Thu Mar 13 15:24:00 2003 From: steven_nikkel at ertyu.org (Steven Nikkel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:17 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help Message-ID: I just obtained an RS/6000 C20 and am having problems getting access to the serial console. I know the null cable and terminal I'm using works, but I can't get anything to display. It runs through its post and ends up with c20 on the front panel display, I don't know if its booted up correctly and displaying its name or stalled at an error. Help! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 13 17:11:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: New Toys: Friden 1160 & Hyperion & HPL, BASIC ROMs & Tek goodies, MORE! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030313181532.5097738a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It's been BUSY around here the last couple of days. Significant new finds include: HPL ROM for the HP 9000 200 series computers. I've heard that HP made these and I've been looking for one for five or six years and was beginning to wonder if they really ever made any. But finally found one in an old HP 9826. This adds ROM based HPL lanuage (as in HP 9825) to any HP 9000 200 computer. Also found two more BASIC ROMs for the same machines. One is version 4 BASIC and it includes all the BIN files in the ROM. The other is version 2 BASIC. It doesn't include the BIN files but only takes 20k of RAM to run. I already had a V 2.1 BASIC ROM. Went out to a scrap metal place this morning and found a Hyperion computer. Not sure what model but it has a CRT on the LH side and two 5 1/4" floppy drives on the RH side. The keyboard slides in underneath the CPU. Anybody have boot disks for this one? At the same place I also found a Friden 1160 calculator. Funky looking little beast with a ROUND CRT in it! Anyone have some SPECIFIC suggestions about what to check for before powering it up? Also found a Tektronic TM 500 mainframe with a PG 506 Calibration Generator and a TG 501 Time Mark Generator in it. WaHoo! Been wanting some of this stuff but couldn't justify the cost of it. Other stuff: a Stag 39M200 Microprocessor programming module that will work in my Stag Programmer. (anybody have docs for the 39M200??? I have docs for the 39M100 and the programmer). Also found LOTS of HP 9000 series 200 and 300 computer parts, cards, and disk drives and a pile of Amiga computer cards. Also found three Atalla Multibus cards that appear to be some kind of developement system/programmer for Intel MCS-51s. Anybody know any more about these? Also found a complete Intel 310 computer but my car was FULL so I had to leave it for another time. Even after I came home stuff was still showing up. A friend of mine brought me a Heathkit ET-3400 that he found a garage sale. Joe From ceo at coherent-logic.com Thu Mar 13 17:19:00 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: FS Items References: Message-ID: <000b01c2e9b6$8dd2b030$8500000a@music> Sparc 5 taken already? +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 1:54 PM Subject: Re: FS Items > > On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 09:46, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > A few more items I've got to offer to the list. I can take Paypal or > > > Check/Money Order for payment. Everything below is $10 + shipping, with > > > discounts for buying multiple items. > > > > > > + 3Com SuperStack HUB 10: 24port 10BaseT Hub, rackmountable. > > > I've got a lot of these available to me. > > > > > > + Panasonic LaserDisc player > > > > > > + Apple Macintosh Plus 1MB - have keyboard and monitor > > > > > > + Sun SparcStation 5, 85MHz, CG6, 32-64MB ram, 2GB HDD > > > > > > + Tatung CompStation LC - A pizzabox Sun Sparcstation LC clone > > > - CG6, have to check how much memory I have available, probably 4GB HDD > > The Tatung has been taken. Thanks. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Mar 13 17:37:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: FS Items In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 09:46, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > A few more items I've got to offer to the list. I can take Paypal or > > > Check/Money Order for payment. Everything below is $10 + shipping, with > > > discounts for buying multiple items. > > > > > > + 3Com SuperStack HUB 10: 24port 10BaseT Hub, rackmountable. > > > I've got a lot of these available to me. > > > > > > + Panasonic LaserDisc player > > > > > > + Apple Macintosh Plus 1MB - have keyboard and monitor > > > > > > + Sun SparcStation 5, 85MHz, CG6, 32-64MB ram, 2GB HDD > > > > > > + Tatung CompStation LC - A pizzabox Sun Sparcstation LC clone > > > - CG6, have to check how much memory I have available, probably 4GB HDD > > The Tatung has been taken. Thanks. Now, the SparcStation 5's have been taken. I still have the Mac Plus 1MB and loads of 3Com hubs available if anyone is interested. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From brian at quarterbyte.com Thu Mar 13 18:20:01 2003 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: <20030312035148.40915.77394.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E70AE8B.4493.5D8A4BF@localhost> > > My interest is in collecting whole, undiced silicon wafers. These > > are much more accessible for research and the interest does not > > conflict with those of other people. They're almost always available at the Foothill College Ham Radio Swap Meet for about a buck a 6" wafer, see e.g. http://www.qsl.net/kf6foz/page1.htm Brian From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Mar 13 18:39:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia Message-ID: <1047602140.4585.11.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I've decided that the PDP-11/24 I have is not getting enough attention since I've acquired the 11/83. So, if anyone is interested, I've got the following available for pick up near Blacksburg in Southwest Virginia: PDP-11/24 EIS FPP 1 Megabyte of RAM DZ11A RL11 UDA50 Unibus Map RA80 Disk Drive RL02 Drives (two of them) RL02 Disk Packs (nine of them) RSTS/E 9.2 (with Y2K patch) is installed on the RA-80 The system is in two racks, one contains the PDP-11/24 and one contains the RL02s. I will not break this system up, so whoever wants it has to be willing to take the whole thing, including all the disk packs and the spare grant cards I have for it. You can see a picture at http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/~cmcnabb/projects/pdp11 . The HP Terminal is NOT included, since I kinda need it for the HP-9000/832 If there are no takers, then I will keep the system (no E-bay for this one) Scrappers/Board Collectors need not reply. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 13 18:53:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: RSTS/E 9.2 Y2k Patch? (was: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia) In-Reply-To: <1047602140.4585.11.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Mar 13, 2003 07:35:40 PM Message-ID: <200303140050.h2E0oEVV032661@shell1.aracnet.com> > RSTS/E 9.2 (with Y2K patch) is installed on the RA-80 Now this is interesting, what is the origin of the Y2K patch? Is this something you did yourself or what? Zane From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Mar 13 18:57:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: RSTS/E 9.2 Y2k Patch? (was: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia) In-Reply-To: <200303140050.h2E0oEVV032661@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200303140050.h2E0oEVV032661@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1047603257.4585.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 19:50, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > RSTS/E 9.2 (with Y2K patch) is installed on the RA-80 > > Now this is interesting, what is the origin of the Y2K patch? Is this > something you did yourself or what? > It's been awhile, but I believe I got it from Johnny Billquist's site. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From bkotaska at earthlink.net Thu Mar 13 19:01:01 2003 From: bkotaska at earthlink.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 was: New To List and PDP8 Question References: <200303121812.KAA09481@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000701c2e9c2$f5eef280$0200a8c0@ath700> > You didn't put the programs in RAM, it still require one > to blow 1702's that you'd replace those on the SIM4 board > to test out your programs. You need to remember this > is a Harvard architecture type processor. The motherboard/box. . . > Harvard architecture, yes. But the 4004 had a nifty instruction called WPM (Write Program Memory.) With this instruction - and the appropriate logic - you can write into RAM and then use bank switching techniques to execute from it. I use this method along with the 4289 in my 4004 computer to let me interactively read, write, and execute from any portion of the 16K (bytes) of RAM. The 4040 expanded on this idea and added a RPM (Read Program Memory) instruction. Bill Kotaska From bkotaska at earthlink.net Thu Mar 13 19:08:00 2003 From: bkotaska at earthlink.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted References: Message-ID: <000d01c2e9c3$dfc7c120$0200a8c0@ath700> > Since I only have the one copy I don't want to part with it now, but I could > probably at least type in the ROM listing from the manual sometime if you > don't have a copy of that. A quick Google search didn't turn up a copy of > the ROM listing online anywhere. > > -Glen > Glen, I would also be interested in a ROM dump or other info on the 5036A. I have one as well no docs to speak of. Is the schematic included in "Practical Microprocessors"? This would be very helpful. You're right - there is no info on this to be found anywhere online. Bill Kotaska From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Mar 13 19:24:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Collecting silicon wafers In-Reply-To: References: <20030313180001.57451.63501.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4806.4.20.168.175.1047604852.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Dave Wilson" wrote: > The forward engineering is quite difficult enough. It's my own belief > that reverse engineering is - practically speaking - intractable. Actually not. Certainly beyond the means of a hobbyist, but there are companies that offer this service commercially. The most well-known is Chipworks, but there are several others. They'll take a packaged part, decap it, and peel it layer by layer. They can provide you results in various forms including physical design formats such GDS, schemtics, netlists, or even HDL code. It's not inexpensive. This is what AMD did to get the Intel 386 logic design. I don't know if they did all the work in-house, or contracted some of it out to specialists. They were entitled under a cross-license agreement to obtain the actual 386 design files from Intel, but Intel was trying to renege on the agreement. The court eventually ruled for AMD, but in the mean time they completely reverse-engineered the 386 back to a register transfer level design, then reimplemented the exact same logic, though they improved it by making it static rather than dynamic. Altogether, this is the most amazing reverse-engineering feat I've ever heard of. > If this really is so appealing to sinister governments etc. why not > just reverse engineer the chip they bought legitimately, by mail order. Yes, that's how it's normally done. AFAIK, there's little additional knowledge to be gained from studying a complete wafer vs. an individual die. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 13 19:25:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 In-Reply-To: <200303130049.QAA09842@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Mar 12, 3 04:49:56 pm Message-ID: > >According to my 1983 Synertek book, the SY6507 _is_ a 28-pin 65xx CPU with > >8K addressing. The only video controllers they list are the SY6545, SY6845, > >SY66450 and SY66550. > > > > Hi Jim > This is what Eric Smith tells me as well. As I told And it's waht I suspect too... > him, it doesn't make much sense. The board has a 6502 > as well as the 6507 with the data lines tied together. > I guess they could use opposite phases or something. Indeed. That was a very common trick to have 2 650x CPUs in parallel. It's how the CBM IEEE-488 disk drives were designed, for example. You need a mux on the address lines (because the CPU does not tri-state those between memory accesses), but you can tie the data lines together. > I was tracing down the sync signals for the video > and they seem to be coming from this part?? Think of the 6507 as (very) programmable counter chain (in the simplest case just have it executing NOPs and JMPs). That's the video address logic. And you could probably get it to pulse the high-order address lines (by jumping up there and back again) to generate sync signals. I once had this idea (which I've never followed up) to use a common, fast, 8 bit processor with no instruction pipelining (so you know what the buses are doing and when) as a microcode sequencer. Just give it 8+n bit wide memory, with the 8 bits consisting of NOPs and (conditional) jumps. the n bits are the control lines to whatever you're microcoding. -tony From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Mar 13 21:01:00 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <20030218091618.U94068@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: Has anyone heard from James Willing lately? I ordered something from his garage sale but have been unable to reach him by email to confirm that he received my payment. From dan at ekoan.com Thu Mar 13 21:24:01 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: References: <20030218091618.U94068@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030313222202.03360370@enigma> At 09:57 PM 3/13/03 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone heard from James Willing lately? I ordered something from his >garage sale but have been unable to reach him by email to confirm that he >received my payment. I have not heard from him either, although my bank informs me that he cashed my check. Cheers, Dan From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Thu Mar 13 21:38:00 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: teledisk problem Message-ID: Anybody seen this one? I'm running into a problem with a set of disks (original Visual 1050 system disks) where when teledisk gets to cyl 80 it pops up an error box "Drive A: is not ready. Please correct and press any key to continue". Needless to say, nothing I've tried gets past this error. Teledisk usually seems fairly tolerant of most errors and will keep chugging, but not so in this case. I tried a few versions, the latest I have is 2.16, all behave the same. Any ideas? dc From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Mar 13 21:40:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Synertek 6507 In-Reply-To: References: <200303130049.QAA09842@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Message-ID: <2998.4.20.168.175.1047613054.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > Think of the 6507 as (very) programmable counter chain (in the simplest > case just have it executing NOPs and JMPs). Typically you want some instruction other than NOP. For instance, using LDA immediate lets you fetch consecutive addresses on every cycle. > I once had this idea (which I've never followed up) to use a common, > fast, 8 bit processor with no instruction pipelining (so you know what > the buses are doing and when) as a microcode sequencer. Just give it 8+n > bit wide memory, with the 8 bits consisting of NOPs and (conditional) > jumps. the n bits are the control lines to whatever you're microcoding. Back in 1993 or so, I was thinking about using an AMD 29005 RISC microprocessor as a microprogram sequencer for a 36-bit computer. But the 29005 doesn't qualify as common. From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Mar 13 22:20:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: DUP Problem with RT-11 Message-ID: <200303140417.XAA5181627@shell.TheWorld.com> >I have been attempting for some to to write ALL 65536 blocks >from one RT-11 partition to a second RT-11 partition. Does >anyone know of what is wrong with what I am doing? I am >using V5.03 of RT-11 under the Supnik emulator and I do the >command: As you know, some devices supported by RT are variable-sized, like DL, DM and DU. In order for RT to know the size of a volume on these devices, the handlers have to support the special function 373, which gets the volume size. In most cases, this is not a problem since the volume sizes don't approach the 16-bit limit of 65535. But for DU volumes, this size can be exceeded. And since you cannot return a volume size of 65536 as it would require 17 bits, the maximum size returned is pegged at 65535, with one block specifically designated as unused (but reachable using other special function calls in the DU handler). The reason for the one unused block is so that the calculations for start of a partition are simple (since it is a truncation by discarding the low-order 16 bits of block number). Now, since the DU handler reports 65535 as the largest size, the directory structure is established such that the blocks which are accessible are 0 through 65534 (a total of 65535 blocks). It would be a kludge and a hack (a bad one) to play games in the driver to make it report 0 and have it mean 65536 even if a reported size of zero makes no sense (actually, a reported size of less than 9 makes no sense since that is the MINIMUM number of blocks required on an RT volume to be able to store a minimum of one block of data). It would also mean changing DUP and any other program which uses VARSZ$. Personally, I would suggest that time is better spent with other things in RT... just live with one block not directly accessible per 65536, or write your own programs (without mucking with the OS itself) to get at the final block... I would say it is a case of truly diminished returns. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 14 00:47:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: teledisk problem References: Message-ID: <3E7179EE.1050805@cts.com> Damien Cymbal wrote: >Anybody seen this one? > >I'm running into a problem with a set of disks (original Visual 1050 system >disks) where when teledisk gets to cyl 80 it pops up an error box "Drive A: is >not ready. Please correct and press any key to continue". Needless to say, >nothing I've tried gets past this error. Teledisk usually seems fairly >tolerant of most errors and will keep chugging, but not so in this case. I >tried a few versions, the latest I have is 2.16, all behave the same. > >Any ideas? > >dc > > > It is a little unclear whether you are trying to create a TeleDisk image file from the Visual 1050 disk or are trying to create a media copy from a .TD0 file. In either case, may we assume that drive A is a 96tpi 5.25" drive and that you are in DOS and not in a DOS window? Give us a bit more to go on and perhaps someone can help you. - don From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Mar 14 01:00:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto References: Message-ID: <022701c2e9f6$f24b4140$0100a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: ; Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:20 PM Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto snip > I don't recall either of mine being any slower than the QL, though it's a > few months since I last played with one. I just wish I had some > documentation for 'em. I have some here-may even be multiple copies of some stuff- All user manuals though, no "real" tech refs. I better go dig it out and let you have a list of what's here. They were 'state of the art' for a very short time. We (NZPO) sold/leased them to unsuspecting customers at the time and I got given a complete new system (c/w the larger colour screen and thermal printer) to play with for reasons I can't recall. Anyway, I still have all of it, plus several other partial systems I have come across along the way. DaveB NZ From ssj152 at charter.net Fri Mar 14 01:33:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted References: <000d01c2e9c3$dfc7c120$0200a8c0@ath700> Message-ID: <02c501c2e9fb$7116d4e0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kotaska" To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted > > Since I only have the one copy I don't want to part with it now, but I > could > > probably at least type in the ROM listing from the manual sometime if you > > don't have a copy of that. A quick Google search didn't turn up a copy of > > the ROM listing online anywhere. > > > > -Glen > > > Glen, > I would also be interested in a ROM dump or other info on the 5036A. I have > one as well no docs to speak of. Is the schematic included in "Practical > Microprocessors"? This would be very helpful. You're right - there is no > info on this to be found anywhere online. > Bill Kotaska Glen, Bill, The 5036A is a real machine, isn't it! I have several single board computers and 2 Heathkit trainers (ET-3400 & ET-3400A with ETA-3400 MIO), but none of that equipment begins to compare with the HP 5036A. Besides being designed into a briefcase (and workstand), it is VERY functional, and is built like a tank. My hat is off to the team of folks that designed, built, programmed, and built the educational materials for the machine! -- on to the topic -- The schematic is in the "HP User's Guide for the 5036A", of which I have a xerographic copy. It is several pages and is organized as flip-up's, pull outs, etc. I have plans to scan the User's Guide, but my scanner is not presently connected to my computer; I changed PC boxes not long ago and haven't set EVERYTHING up yet on the new(er) box. If you wish, I can include you in any distribution of the User's Manual I make. I will also put a link to it on the hobby (retrocomputing) web site I'm working on at the present. Glen, does the book have the assembly source for the ROM? That would be useful to have, if it isn't entirely too much trouble to type in. I am also interested in the "peripherals" I saw sold with one 5936A, edge connectors labeled "mass storage" and so on. What does the book say about them? Would they be worth duplicating? I will persist in my search for the "Practical Microprocessors" book. I have found that it is used at two educational institutions, but have not had any luck getting a response from either in regards to getting a copy of the book. Information on their web sites indicated that the institutions had been granted the right to reprint the book, which I found very interesting. Regards, Stuart From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Mar 14 02:12:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT Message-ID: <3B1E892D-55F4-11D7-858A-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Please forgive me if this is Off Topic... I have a 1 gig drive in a 486. The BIOS sees the whole 1.2 gig (wd caviar 21200) and I have set the parameters from the plate on the drive into the bios... But FDISK insists that the drive is only 504 MB. Who ate half of my disk drive?? can I get it back? how? I have tried to create secondary partitions but "no disk space remains" Thanks. ron. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Mar 14 03:19:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: <3B1E892D-55F4-11D7-858A-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030314090353.020d7518@pop.freeserve.net> This is pretty typical of MS-DOS; it has a 504Mb limit. There are a number of "disk managers" available that (typically) boot up before DOS, and fool it. One popular tool was "ontrack", which many mfrs supplied customised for just their own drives. There are a number of tools linked from here: http://www.vobis.de/bbs/firmen/wd/hrddrive/ I've used ezdrive9 in the past with WD discs with success. (Worst episode of this fault I rememeber was using a caching IDE controller [expansion board with own memory] which reported a 1Gb disc, but wrapped around at 504Mb - overwriting the boot sectors and root directory as we wrote the 505th Mb...) regards Rob. At 00:09 14/03/2003 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: >Please forgive me if this is Off Topic... > > >I have a 1 gig drive in a 486. The BIOS sees the whole 1.2 gig (wd caviar >21200) >and I have set the parameters from the plate on the drive into the bios... > >But FDISK insists that the drive is only 504 MB. Who ate half of my disk >drive?? > >can I get it back? > >how? > >I have tried to create secondary partitions but "no disk space remains" > > >Thanks. > >ron. From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Fri Mar 14 05:22:00 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: teledisk problem References: <3E7179EE.1050805@cts.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 1:42 AM Subject: Re: teledisk problem > Damien Cymbal wrote: > > >Anybody seen this one? > > > >I'm running into a problem with a set of disks (original Visual 1050 system > >disks) where when teledisk gets to cyl 80 it pops up an error box "Drive A: is > >not ready. Please correct and press any key to continue". Needless to say, > >nothing I've tried gets past this error. Teledisk usually seems fairly > >tolerant of most errors and will keep chugging, but not so in this case. I > >tried a few versions, the latest I have is 2.16, all behave the same. > > > >Any ideas? > > > >dc > > > It is a little unclear whether you are trying to create a TeleDisk image > file from the Visual 1050 disk or are trying to create a media copy from > a .TD0 file. In either case, may we assume that drive A is a 96tpi 5.25" > drive and that you are in DOS and not in a DOS window? > > Give us a bit more to go on and perhaps someone can help you. > > - don Sorry. Yes, I am trying to create the .TD0 image from a 5.25" floppy quad density (SSDD80/10). This is pure DOS (6.22) no Windows in site anywhere. Out of the 7 disks I've attempted, 3 of them have displayed this error. The help for teledisk says that this error is displayed when the drive door is open or the disk is not inserted (obviously not the case). I've tried unseasting/reseating the disk several times but once it gets into this state there seems to be no recovery. Like I say, I have seen cases where teledisk gets read errors during the .TD0 creation, but it usually will just report them in its status window and keep on chugging. Not so in this case. I've tried each of the suspect disks 3 times with the same results so I don't think it is my drive being flakey, but unfortunately it is the only PC 5.25 I currently have running so I can't confirm that. As mentioned I have not had problems with other diskettes on this drive. A couple of things I have thought of trying just for informational purposes is (1) when teledisk reports the error, insert one of the successfully imaged disks into the drive just to see if it really is a track 80 specific issue with the disk or is teledisk has just gotten into some bad unrecoverable state somehow (2) try another disk copy on the real machine and if that succeeds without complaint try generating the .TD0 from the duplicated disk. That's about all I can think of to report. Thanks for any other ideas. dc From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Mar 14 06:01:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030314114842.01a1bb98@slave> At 00:03 13/03/2003, Witchy wrote: > > Actually, I may be able to transfer via floppy disk, as I have an OPD > > disk interface (How cool is that? I even have the manuals!) - it plugs > > into the ROM pack. The one unknown at this time is what format the > > floppy is written in; but since it at least takes the same drives as the > > QL, it should be possible to read one way or another. Unlike Commodore's > > damn GCR format. > >Hehe, given the rest of the OPD stuff I'd be VERY surprised if the floppy >format is compatible :) And you'd be right :( Still, I've yet to get the sector editor out on it to see if it's possible to drag the raw data off the disk. One can but hope... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Mar 14 07:46:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030314090353.020d7518@pop.freeserve.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030314090353.020d7518@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <1047649530.1201.6.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 03:15, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > This is pretty typical of MS-DOS; it has a 504Mb limit. There are a number > of "disk managers" available that (typically) boot up before DOS, and fool > it. One popular tool was "ontrack", which many mfrs supplied customised > for just their own drives. MS-DOS 6.22 will support drives upto 8.4gb, I don't know about any prior versions though. Usually the BIOS that causes the 512MB limit in my experience, so you may want to look into a bios upgrade. Freedos http://www.freedos.org/ will support drives upto 128GB and is mostly MS-DOS 6.22 compatible. > There are a number of tools linked from > here: http://www.vobis.de/bbs/firmen/wd/hrddrive/ > I've used ezdrive9 in the past with WD discs with success. Same here because the bios did not support my 850MB disk and ezdrive came with the drive. Regards, Paul From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Mar 14 08:17:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Wafer collecting and manufacturing Message-ID: <414DEEFC-5627-11D7-BAB6-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Hi, I figured I would pass this along for anyone who didn't know. If your into silicon collecting or interested in the manufacturing process you should get your self a subscription to SolidState Technology. It's free. http://www.subscribe-sst.com It's a decent magazine that has been around a few years. Rob rborsuk@colourfull.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 14 09:10:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Did anyone on this list get this IBM system ? Message-ID: <010d01c2ea3b$5c517ed0$1708dd40@oemcomputer> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3405290468 From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 14 09:17:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs References: <8D376EC5-4F78-11D7-A57C-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c2ea3b$b767d300$0400fea9@game> I replaced the ram card with a different one and OS 6.01 load up fine now. Now I wish I could find a scsi card and HD that doesnt cost 4 times what the whole machine, monitor, and drives cost me. TZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Primus" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIgs > IIRC, the IIgs sometimes did funny things if you had the 5 1/4 floppies > connected to the computer before the 3 1/2 inch drives, because then > the Apple 3.5" drives wouldn't sense one of the signals. A general rule > of thumb is - Apple 3.5's first, then Unidisk 3.5, then 5 1/4. I don't > know if this has anything to do with your problem, but it's worth a > shot. Also, make sure the drives and disks involved are working > properly. I've had worn DSDD floppies that worked fine in a > Superdrive-equipped Mac, but wouldn't read properly on an 800k drive. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 08:44 PM, TeoZ wrote: > > > I tried to load 6.01 this morning but the system screen stops when the > > OS > > bar gets under the S on the screen during boot (disk drive light dies > > out > > also). I checked the system from the bios diagnostic and everything > > checked > > out as system ok. > > > > The system has the 1meg card with full population of chips and both > > jumpers > > are on (apple brand memory upgrade), so I assume it should boot off > > the 6.01 > > disk market system (The unit unfortunatly doesnt have a hard drive > > just 5.25 > > and 3.5 floppy). > > > > I used a Q840AV to make the 3.5 DSDD disks from apples images. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Primus" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 9:34 PM > > Subject: Re: Apple IIgs > > > > > >> I have the actual floppies for the IIgs System Software Update 4.0, > >> but > >> I don't know if this is a full, useable system, or just an update, I > >> have never used them, seeming as though Apple has System 6.0.1 for > >> free > >> download on their FTP. > >> > >> Ian Primus > >> ian_primus@yahoo.com > >> > >> On Sunday, March 2, 2003, at 08:47 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >> > >>>> Anybody happen to have disk images of GS/OS before 6.0? I wanted > >>>> something to > >>>> tinker around with on my IIgs with 1mb ram expansion. I have no > >>>> software for > >>>> it at the moment. > >>> > >>> Why before 6.0? GS/OS 6 will work just fine on a 1MB IIgs (I've done > >>> it). > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ----------------------------- personal page: > >>> http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > >>> Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > >>> ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > >>> -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives > >>> can't cure. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 14 09:59:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia In-Reply-To: <1047602140.4585.11.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <20030314155630.62512.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher McNabb wrote: > ...PDP-11/24... available for pick up near Blacksburg in Southwest > Virginia: . . . > http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/~cmcnabb/projects/pdp11 . Nice little system. I already have two 11/24s (one with 2MB, one with 3MB!) and it's a little far to go for a duplicate, but someone ought to find it to be worthwhile drive. After spending about $300 (incl S&H) on the CPU, another couple hundred on a KT24 and some extra memory, and, ISTR, $75 on an RL11) when I was in college (c. 1987), I had mine beefed up enough to load 2.9BSD. I wouldn't feel like I spent too much, except that it didn't see much use after that, unfortunately, so on a per-hour basis, it was kinda expensive. My disks were 3 x RL02, so I didn't really have enough disk space to have fun with it. The other one was free from work a few years later. It had been a RSTS machine for nearly all of its life, first as an accounting box, then later a product dev box when we ported the COMBOARD software to 8.something then 9.3. Yours would be great for either RSTS or RT-11. 1MB is a little tight for 2BSD, but it should install, boot and be able to at least run adventure in that much space. I wouldn't recommend it for multi-user, though. -ethan From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Mar 14 10:42:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted Message-ID: I will try to make a weekend project out of typing in the ROM listing from the source in the manual and then post it somewhere. -Glen >Glen, does the book have the assembly source for the ROM? That would be >useful to have, if it isn't entirely too much trouble to type in. From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Mar 14 12:04:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030314090353.020d7518@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: yup, that's got it Thanks lots. 504mb would have probably been fine for DOS, but I paid for 1.2gb -now I have 1.2gb : ^ ) ron ------------ On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 01:15 AM, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > This is pretty typical of MS-DOS; it has a 504Mb limit. There are a > number of "disk managers" available that (typically) boot up before > DOS, and fool it. One popular tool was "ontrack", which many mfrs > supplied customised for just their own drives. > > There are a number of tools linked from here: > http://www.vobis.de/bbs/firmen/wd/hrddrive/ > I've used ezdrive9 in the past with WD discs with success. From kth at srv.net Fri Mar 14 12:05:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: RSTS/E 9.2 Y2k Patch? (was: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia) References: <200303140050.h2E0oEVV032661@shell1.aracnet.com> <1047603257.4585.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3E7212AC.4080704@srv.net> Christopher McNabb wrote: >On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 19:50, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >>>RSTS/E 9.2 (with Y2K patch) is installed on the RA-80 >>> >>> >>Now this is interesting, what is the origin of the Y2K patch? Is this >>something you did yourself or what? >> >> >> > >It's been awhile, but I believe I got it from Johnny Billquist's site. > > > These are probably the patches you are talking about http://elvira.stacken.kth.se/ From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Mar 14 12:10:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: RSTS/E 9.2 Y2k Patch? (was: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia) In-Reply-To: <3E7212AC.4080704@srv.net> References: <200303140050.h2E0oEVV032661@shell1.aracnet.com> <1047603257.4585.13.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <3E7212AC.4080704@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030314180733.GA14268@www.4mcnabb.net> On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 10:34:36AM -0700, Kevin Handy wrote: > Christopher McNabb wrote: > > >On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 19:50, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > >>>RSTS/E 9.2 (with Y2K patch) is installed on the RA-80 > >>> > >>> > >>Now this is interesting, what is the origin of the Y2K patch? Is this > >>something you did yourself or what? > >> > >> > >> > > > >It's been awhile, but I believe I got it from Johnny Billquist's site. > > > > > > > These are probably the patches you are talking about > > http://elvira.stacken.kth.se/ Yup, those are the ones. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From djenner at earthlink.net Fri Mar 14 12:25:00 2003 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:18 2005 Subject: Available: Sharp ZQ-5200 Organizer Message-ID: <3E721DBE.9106C8FC@earthlink.net> I have a 1990 or so Sharp ZQ-5200 organizer up for grabs. It has 64KB memory. Includes manual and original box. No batteries. It was working last time it had batteries. Cost is shipping. If you are interested, email me. Thanks, Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 14 12:30:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: <3B1E892D-55F4-11D7-858A-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Please forgive me if this is Off Topic... > I have a 1 gig drive in a 486. The BIOS sees the whole 1.2 gig (wd > caviar 21200) the BIOS (disk I/O) or the CMOS setup program? > and I have set the parameters from the plate on the drive into the > bios... CMOS > But FDISK insists that the drive is only 504 MB. Who ate half of my > disk drive?? WHICH version of MS-DOS? > can I get it back? yes > how? > I have tried to create secondary partitions but "no disk space remains" Is your controller "EIDE"? From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 14 12:49:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Fairlight (was Re: Synertek 6507) Message-ID: >Isn't that how the Fairlight CMI (Computer Musical Instrument) works? >Only with 6800s instead of 6502/6507? Does anyone on the list have >a CMI? Something like that... the original CMI certainly has a pair of 6800s... I'd need to RTFM to remind myself how they interacted. I have one - an original Mark I CMI, probably my favourite 'small' system, see: http://www.corestore.org/fl2.htm (page of detail thumbnails) and http://www.corestore.org/fairlight.jpg (nice LARGE pic of whole system) It's in pretty-near perfect shape, and works very nicely! The software they managed to implement on a pair of 6800s is one of the most truly awesome hacks I've ever seen. I'll bring it to the next VCF-East... I'm in process of doing a proper web page about it. Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 14 13:07:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia References: <20030314155630.62512.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c2ea5c$74b36580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ...PDP-11/24... available for pick up near Blacksburg Thanks for the offer! I'm getting sortof interested, but will probably decline, esp. since the owner doesn't have his hand on the axe, and there's 500 miles involved. Question: How portable are PDP11 OS'es and software? If I had a copy of RSX11M for the 11/23 (which I don't) could I port it to an 11/24 and a '/34? Similarly could this RSTS be coaxed into an 11/34? John A. From ssj152 at charter.net Fri Mar 14 13:42:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted References: Message-ID: <02eb01c2ea61$489b9bc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen S" To: Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" wanted > I will try to make a weekend project out of typing in the ROM listing from > the source in the manual and then post it somewhere. > > -Glen > > >Glen, does the book have the assembly source for the ROM? That would be > >useful to have, if it isn't entirely too much trouble to type in. Thanks! Stuart Johnson From terryf at intersurf.com Fri Mar 14 13:46:00 2003 From: terryf at intersurf.com (Terry Freeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Surplus VAX and other mainframe equipment for sell Message-ID: <002801c2ea61$f1781020$e301a8c0@here> Gentlemen: I live in Baton Rouge and had reason to visit Surplus Solutions today. Surplus Solutions is a seller on ebay for used comp equipment and has VERY low prices (especially when you don't have to pay freight). I was talking to the owner regarding mainframe systems and asked if they had any. He replied "they don't move well on ebay, but I do have some old main frame stuff, including several pallets of VAX" What doesn't sell on ebay gets scrapped. He also said he would try relisting some of the stuff He does not have an inventory list, all they do is ebay, however he said they do accept inquiries via phone or email, do sell direct and would welcome my posting this, along with any inquiries regarding the stuff. They are "SurplusSolutions" on ebay, do a seller search and you will hit on dozens of pages of listings. I AM IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH THIS COMPANY, I do however share in the belief that a lot of this old stuff should not meet the scrappers. I may be contacted off list if needed, to possibly help with pickups or storage or possibly get a picture or two of something (if I can convince them to allow it). Sorry, I don't have their phone or email handy, you'll need to get it off ebay Terry Freeman terryf@cox.net From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Fri Mar 14 13:52:00 2003 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If I remember, try connecting pins 6&8 together and see if that helps. (we have a special adapter that does just that). -Bob >I just obtained an RS/6000 C20 and am having problems >getting access to the serial console. I know the null >cable and terminal I'm using works, but I can't get anything to display. >It runs through its post and ends up with c20 on the front >panel display, I don't know if its booted up correctly >and displaying its name or stalled at an error. >Help! bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 14 13:57:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030314090353.020d7518@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: > This is pretty typical of MS-DOS; it has a 504Mb limit. There are a number The 504M limit is BIOS, NOT MS-DOS. But MS-DOS before version 3.31 had a 32M limit. But the 32M limit did not apply to the network redirector. Therefore, to handle CD-ROMs (3.10 and above), MICROS~1 provided MSCDEX.EXE, which made the CD-ROM look like a network drive. Try a CHKDSK of a CD-ROM on MS-DOS 3.10 through 6.22 - it will say: "Cannot CHDSK a network drive" > (Worst episode of this fault I rememeber was using a caching IDE controller > [expansion board with own memory] which reported a 1Gb disc, but wrapped > around at 504Mb - overwriting the boot sectors and root directory as we > wrote the 505th Mb...) As easy as bashing MICROS~1 is, we can't blame the OS for BIOS or hardware faults. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 14 14:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: PDP-11 OSes (was Re: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia) In-Reply-To: <001501c2ea5c$74b36580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20030314200004.38932.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > Question: How portable are PDP11 OS'es and software? > If I had a copy of RSX11M for the 11/23 (which I don't) could > I port it to an 11/24 and a '/34? Similarly could this RSTS be > coaxed into an 11/34? For the machines you mentioned, the only issue is one of device drivers. If you want to port a SYSGENed RSX system from a Qbus to a Unibus machine, I don't know if that would fly. If you have distribution media for RSX-11 and your boot device (RL02, 9track, etc.) was compatible with the target machine, no problem at all. When I was working with RSX-11/M and M+ (c. 1984-1993), we got our distros on either RL02 pack or 16MT9. Our 11/34 had a TS03 and we could put a TU80 on the 11/24 if we had to, but since one wasn't on there normally, that's why we went with RL02. I never did RSTS installs personally (the owner did them), but AFAIK, it's the same deal - porting a GENed system pack from machine to machine might cause heartburn, depending on the exact nature of the CPU (Split I&D, no Split I&D, Unibus, Qbus, etc.), but the distro media should be able to install on anything of the right generation with the right devices (i.e., don't expect to install RSX-11/M 4.0 on a machine with a UDA-50 and an RA-90... it's just an example; I don't have any foreknowledge that it will work or can't work). The critical test would be to get the SPD (Software Product Document?) doc germain to the OS in question, down the version and patch level, and compare the hardware list with what you want to install it on. In broad general terms, most versions of RSX or RSTS should like the 11/24 and 11/34 with varying amounts of memory (256K should be enough for older versions; you might need more for the most recent versions). Massbus disks (attached to an RH-11), RK05 (RK11/RKV11), RK06/RK07 (RK611), RL02 (RL11/RLV11/RLV12) or third-party controllers meant to imitate them will be safe bets. MSCP devices are likely to not be recognized by older versions, but should be OK for something like RSTS v9. Again, check the SPD. Once you have a running system, it's all about the SYSGEN. Making massive changes in the hardware (especially the boot disk controller) may require a new SYSGEN, depending on how parsimonous you were the first time around. Limited support means more memory for applications, but less flexibility when it comes to simple upgrades. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I haven't actually used a PDP-11 for anything besides RT-11 or UNIX since about 1993, so I'm sure I've forgotten or misremembered something. Also, my experience with RSX-11 and RSTS is limited to a few versions and a narrow range of hardware, so if I've made a mistake, I'm sure someone will chime in to correct me. :-) -ethan -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 14 14:07:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: V20 trivia (was: WTD: NEC V20 Hardware Manual, In-Reply-To: <3E706B12.3260.9F6D4812@localhost> Message-ID: I think that your memories of those details are a lot clearer than mine. It's been a long time, and I never did much of anything with the 186/188, so never really got the hang of where it fit into the sequence. I don't have my files handy, and the few reference materials that are handy (such as the MASM 5.1 instruction set reference) are unreliable and very inconsistent. Between your knowledge and what it says, I'd be far more inclined to trust you. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > Not that I know off. The V20 did behave exactly like an 8088. > > > > Besides, it wasn't a completely Bug-For-Bug replacement. NEC failed to > > > > implement some of the quirks of the 8088. For example, if an interrupt > > > > occurred during the execution of an instruction with a double prefix, the > > > > NEC would continue, but the intel would drop one of the prefixes when > > > > resuming. > > > > REP MOVSB DS:[SI] DS:[DI] > > > > will resume with a V20, but with an 8088 will only do one more rep after > > > > an interrupt. > > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Well, that's eactly the 186 behaviour. Now considering that the > > > Not MY experience. The 386 is the first Intel that I'm aware of that > > fixed the double prefix bug. But NONE of the NEC v series had that > > bug. (ONE way to tell whether the current chip was Intel or NEC) > > I have to step back here. I always thought the 186 had this already > fixed. Maybe I'm mixing up these two CPUs. > > Didn't the 80C86/88 also have the double prefix bug fixed ? > > > > timeing was also exactly like 186 (or real mode 286), and the > > > instruction set is the same, I still think NEC just used the > > > Did the V20 have the INSB/INSW/OUTSB/OUTSW instructions? (present in > > 80186/80188, but not 8086/8088 > > It had all the 186 extensions, especialy Enter, Leave, Pusha Popa, > Ins, Outs and Imul. I can't gurantee for Bound, 'cause I never used > that on a V20 (but I did on the 186). > > Furtermore the V20 did include a bunch of new, nice instructions > (if in 86 mode). Just I know of no software to use them. For example, > A bunch of operations for 4 Bit values - aka BCD and Bitoperations. > > > > 186 (188) core as template for the V20/V30 - Considering that > > > V40/50 where like the 186 with integrated perhipherals, you > > > may considere it as a two step knock off... > > > > BUT,... > > Other V20 instructions followed the 8088/8086 model. > > Such as what happens if you push SP. For example: > > > MOV BX, SP > > PUSH SP > > MOV CX, SP > > POP AX > > ; will copy the value pushed by PUSH SP into AX. > > ; on the 8088/8086 and the V20, AX will equal CX > > ; on the 80186/80188, AX will equal BX > > (how to tell whether the chip is 8086/8088 v 80186/80188 or above) > > > Excuse me ? AFAIR that's the way to check if you had a 286 or > above. the 186 did behave exactly like the 86. the pushed SP > is the decremented value, while 286 and above push the original > value, and the test (at least as I did it) was: > PUSH SP > POP AX > CMP AX,SP > Equal -> 286 or above, > Not Equal -> 186 or below. > > To test for 186/88 vs 86/88 (and V20/30) was using the shift > operation. starting with th 186, the shift value was anded > by 1Fh. So you would load any value except Zero into AX and > load CL with 32, execute a shift. If the resulting AX was > Zero, it was an 86/88 (of V20/30), if not it was a 186 or > above. > > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Mar 14 14:07:23 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 emulator upgraded to version 1.0 Message-ID: <3E7235D3.3070608@pacbell.net> Nearly half a year ago I put out version 0.5 of my Wang 2200 emulator. Life got busy, and it has taken a lot longer than I expected to get version 1.0 ready. With this release, the source code is also available. If you want to take a look, here the link to the emulator, including release notes: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/emu.html The "front door" to the Wang 2200 site is here: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/wang.html The emulator is written for a Win32 environment, although it might just run under Wine on Linux, or one of the Mac PC emulators. I don't use anything too exotic in the Win32 API. The zip file contains a couple dozen programs to try out. Background: What is the 2200? It was first announced by Wang Computers in 1971 or so, and was a dedicated BASIC-only machine. It is a TTL-based CPU that had ROM'd microcode to implement the BASIC interpreter. The BASIC is interesting in that it is ideosyncratic: weak in some areas (statically sized string variables), very strong in others (MAT SORT anyone?). From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Mar 14 15:19:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3826F57E-5662-11D7-8031-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 10:27 AM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: >> Please forgive me if this is Off Topic... >> I have a 1 gig drive in a 486. The BIOS sees the whole 1.2 gig (wd >> caviar 21200) > > the BIOS (disk I/O) or the CMOS setup program? CMOS setup program... (press del as the machine boots) > >> and I have set the parameters from the plate on the drive into the >> bios... > CMOS >> But FDISK insists that the drive is only 504 MB. Who ate half of my >> disk drive?? > > WHICH version of MS-DOS? 6.2.2 > >> can I get it back? > > yes > >> how? >> I have tried to create secondary partitions but "no disk space >> remains" > > Is your controller "EIDE"? > > um, stumped here. It's an ISA card and also has serial and parallel, game port and floppy connectors on it. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 14 15:27:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives References: Message-ID: <00f001c2ea70$54e7a860$0100000a@milkyway> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Therefore, to handle CD-ROMs (3.10 and above), MICROS~1 provided > MSCDEX.EXE, which made the CD-ROM look like a network drive. Try a > CHKDSK of a CD-ROM on MS-DOS > 3.10 through 6.22 - it will say: "Cannot CHDSK a network drive" I must remember to try that sometime. :-) > As easy as bashing MICROS~1 is, we can't blame the OS for BIOS or > hardware faults. "MicroSoft? Is that some kind of toilet paper?" - IIRC that came from the Mandrake Linux installer. Hmm... Now we know what MandrakeSoft thinks of Microsoft. But then again, the same joke can be rephrased as "MandrakeSoft? Is that some kind of toilet paper"... The mind boggles... Just getting the OT crud out of my head for today... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Mar 14 15:58:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030314215343.01a78d58@slave> OK, first (and easiest) part done, the Installation Manual: http://www.classic-micros.com/iclopd/installation/index.html Next up will be "Advanced Operations", as that's nice and thin as well. Then the handbook, which is fecking HUUUUUGE, and may take some time. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 14 17:42:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy Message-ID: <00a001c2ea82$f47e4840$7d0bdd40@oemcomputer> This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Mar 14 18:05:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: OT For Sale (Transformer Winding Business) Message-ID: OFF TOPIC - but ya never know. I have for sale the physical assets of a transformer and coil winding company: 3 Boesch toroidial winders, four multi-bobbin straight winders with tensoiners, thousands of pounds of wire from #46 to #10, Litz wires, thousands of pounds of laminations and core materials, tens of thousands of toroid cores all segregated and in steel bins, plus headers, bobbins, terminals, tape, vacuum pots, manuals, etc. Contact me off list: stuff is going just for my investment in it, and it's located in Northern California - I moved the whole load in one 24' UHaul truck, about 9000 lbs all up. Cheers John From ejchapel at attbi.com Fri Mar 14 18:12:00 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help (Steven Nikkel) In-Reply-To: <20030314180001.67679.19717.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030314160753.00b9d0b0@mail.attbi.com> >Steven, c20 = An unexpected halt occurred, and the system is configured to enter the kernel debug program instead of entering a system dump. More codes can be found here: http://www.pimpworks.org/ibm/aixled.html Ed >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:20:48 -0600 (CST) >From: Steven Nikkel >Subject: RS/6000 Console Help > >I just obtained an RS/6000 C20 and am having problems >getting access to the serial console. I know the null >cable and terminal I'm using works, but I can't get anything to display. >It runs through its post and ends up with c20 on the front >panel display, I don't know if its booted up correctly >and displaying its name or stalled at an error. >Help! From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 14 18:26:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: teledisk problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Damien Cymbal wrote: > > >I'm running into a problem with a set of disks (original Visual 1050 > system > > >disks) where when teledisk gets to cyl 80 it pops up an error box "Drive > A: is > > >not ready. Please correct and press any key to continue". Needless to > say, > > >nothing I've tried gets past this error. Teledisk usually seems fairly > > >tolerant of most errors and will keep chugging, but not so in this case. > I > > >tried a few versions, the latest I have is 2.16, all behave the same. > Sorry. Yes, I am trying to create the .TD0 image from a 5.25" floppy quad > density (SSDD80/10). This is pure DOS (6.22) no Windows in site anywhere. > Out of the 7 disks I've attempted, 3 of them have displayed this error. The > help for teledisk says that this error is displayed when the drive door is > open or the disk is not inserted (obviously not the case). I've tried > unseasting/reseating the disk several times but once it gets into this state > there seems to be no recovery. Like I say, I have seen cases where teledisk > gets read errors during the .TD0 creation, but it usually will just report > them in its status window and keep on chugging. Not so in this case. I've > tried each of the suspect disks 3 times with the same results so I don't > think it is my drive being flakey, but unfortunately it is the only PC 5.25 > I currently have running so I can't confirm that. As mentioned I have not > had problems with other diskettes on this drive. > > A couple of things I have thought of trying just for informational purposes > is (1) when teledisk reports the error, insert one of the successfully > imaged disks into the drive just to see if it really is a track 80 specific > issue with the disk or is teledisk has just gotten into some bad > unrecoverable state somehow (2) try another disk copy on the real machine > and if that succeeds without complaint try generating the .TD0 from the > duplicated disk. Trying (1) is worth doing, but I have the feeling that (2) is the more likely to succeed, since it is apparently the disk that is causing the problem. Witness the four that worked 'as advertised'. I have experienced similar problems in the distant past, but for the life of me cannot remember the outcome. I suspect that it was more like (2) than (1) though. - don From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 14 19:18:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy References: <00a001c2ea82$f47e4840$7d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001001c2ea8f$ba914260$0400fea9@game> I dont think bill gates himself would pay $1859 for windows 1.01 if his copies got lost. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 6:39 PM Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy > This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on > the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 From kth at srv.net Fri Mar 14 19:33:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy References: <00a001c2ea82$f47e4840$7d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E728888.4030009@srv.net> Keys wrote: >This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on >the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 > > > Did you notice that the box with the bent corners is the one with the higher price? From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Mar 14 20:30:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy In-Reply-To: <00a001c2ea82$f47e4840$7d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on > the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 > Like anyone needed ever more proof that your average windows user is dumb as a rock and more gullible than even PT Barnum could dream of. g. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Mar 14 20:50:01 2003 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA Message-ID: Hello all, Here is a list of what's available on that IBM 4331 in Massachusetts... Any idea how much floor space this would use up? Also, does any of it run on standard 120V AC? I realize a truck w/ lift gate would be ideal to haul this, but would any single pieces fit in a pickup truck? I doubt I could take this over, but I have opened communications w/ the current owner. I asked if he would be willing to give away the system, but no reply yet ... Would anyone like help rescuing this system? I'm about an hour away from it... > >1 3803 Tape Control Unit >2 3420 Tape Drives >1 3179 Console >4 3278 Monitors >1 4331 Main Frame(including boot diskette) >4 3340 Disk Drives >13 3340 Disk Packs >1 2821 Control Unit >1 1403 N1 Printer with Print Train >1 2540 Card Reader Punch >3 29 Keypunch >2 83 Card Sorter >1 129 Punch/Verifier > All Cables and Connectors > All Manuals _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From kittstr at access-4-free.com Fri Mar 14 21:19:00 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: kevin stumpf's book. Message-ID: <000c01c2eaa1$40654c90$a5443b41@amscomputer> Does anyone have a spare copy of: A Guide to Collecting Computers and Computer Collectibles: History, Practice, and Technique by Kevin Stumpf That they would be willing to sell me? Thank you for any help you can provide! Andrew Strouse From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 14 21:25:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! Message-ID: <3E729C64.7020807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I just closed a deal for a run to get some 60 miles from here. I was "called to duty" on the Classic Computer Rescue Squad. I tell you Penske is your friend! I got a liftgate truck for $75 and $0.18/mi. When you guys rent a truck make sure you claim a business rate. After all, we are a voluntary non-profit "organization" that helps businesses get rid of their old computing equipment and save the environment and the technology. We share equipment with people in need, including private collections and museums. That's what we do, so that's what we can claim business rates for. cheers, -Gunther From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Mar 14 21:33:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <3E729C64.7020807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: > Hi, I just closed a deal for a run to get some 60 miles from > here. I was "called to duty" on the Classic Computer Rescue Squad. > I tell you Penske is your friend! I got a liftgate truck for > $75 and $0.18/mi. When you guys rent a truck make sure you > claim a business rate. After all, we are a voluntary non-profit > "organization" that helps businesses get rid of their old computing > equipment and save the environment and the technology. We share > equipment with people in need, including private collections and > museums. That's what we do, so that's what we can claim business > rates for. Except without an EIN, its fraud... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 14 22:05:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: conservation diffculties w/ classic 'puters. In-Reply-To: References: <3B1E892D-55F4-11D7-858A-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20030315032146.KKDZ9123.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> While I was browsing via /. , I came across this link: http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/rampspoed.html Words doesn't express well, photos did what everybody on this list had talked about before. If you have more photos like this, provide an url for them. Cheers, Wizard From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Mar 14 23:18:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: <3B1E892D-55F4-11D7-858A-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030315001310.00abdae0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Make sure your BIOS supports LBA mode. Else use a drive overlay, which can also be a source of problems later. At 12:09 AM 3/14/03 -0800, you wrote: >Please forgive me if this is Off Topic... > > >I have a 1 gig drive in a 486. The BIOS sees the whole 1.2 gig (wd caviar >21200) >and I have set the parameters from the plate on the drive into the bios... > >But FDISK insists that the drive is only 504 MB. Who ate half of my disk >drive?? > >can I get it back? > >how? > >I have tried to create secondary partitions but "no disk space remains" > > >Thanks. > >ron. From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Mar 14 23:24:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA Message-ID: <191.1692643a.2ba41254@aol.com> In a message dated 3/14/03 6:48:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > >1 3803 Tape Control Unit > >2 3420 Tape Drives > >1 3179 Console > >4 3278 Monitors > >1 4331 Main Frame(including boot diskette) > >4 3340 Disk Drives > >13 3340 Disk Packs > >1 2821 Control Unit > >1 1403 N1 Printer with Print Train > >1 2540 Card Reader Punch > >3 29 Keypunch > >2 83 Card Sorter > >1 129 Punch/Verifier > > All Cables and Connectors > > All Manuals > > Nice system. Worth saving whole. I count about 7 Pickups full but it would be much better to rent a Penske or another full size truck with a Railgate. A standard liftgate might not handle the 1403, IIRC that is 1600 pounds on a wide wheelbase. If you go from Whse loading dock to another loading dock you do not need a liftgate, same if you have a forklift at each end. Having moved something like that I would rent a 26 footer. My quick calculation is 25 1/2 feet. Take packing blankets because the small stuff has to go on top, and rope along with some IBM wire wheel stops to secure the stuff so that it doesn't roll around. In Oregon, USA, you do not need a CDL if you are moving under 26,000 pounds. Here I rented from Ryder for full size trucks or Budget for lighter trucks, never used Penske. Heavy stuff goes in first and up front. The keypunches at the back. I can suggest a loading plan if you get the system. A big problem with IBM is it is heavy and hard to get out of a pickup without a crane and or crushing yourself. The larger truck is priceless. When you use the proper equipment it is easy. Make sure everything is tied down well, that is what the rope is for. Paxton Astoria, OR USA From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Mar 14 23:55:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA In-Reply-To: <191.1692643a.2ba41254@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030315005028.00a3b050@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Paxton, A lot of equipment movers use the ratcheting web strapping instead of rope. Best Regards At 12:21 AM 3/15/03 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/14/03 6:48:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, >r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > > > > >1 3803 Tape Control Unit > > >2 3420 Tape Drives > > >1 3179 Console > > >4 3278 Monitors > > >1 4331 Main Frame(including boot diskette) > > >4 3340 Disk Drives > > >13 3340 Disk Packs > > >1 2821 Control Unit > > >1 1403 N1 Printer with Print Train > > >1 2540 Card Reader Punch > > >3 29 Keypunch > > >2 83 Card Sorter > > >1 129 Punch/Verifier > > > All Cables and Connectors > > > All Manuals > > > > > >Nice system. Worth saving whole. > >I count about 7 Pickups full but it would be much better to rent a Penske or >another full size truck with a Railgate. A standard liftgate might not handle >the 1403, IIRC that is 1600 pounds on a wide wheelbase. > >If you go from Whse loading dock to another loading dock you do not need a >liftgate, same if you have a forklift at each end. > >Having moved something like that I would rent a 26 footer. My quick >calculation is 25 1/2 feet. Take packing blankets because the small stuff has >to go on top, and rope along with some IBM wire wheel stops to secure the >stuff so that it doesn't roll around. > >In Oregon, USA, you do not need a CDL if you are moving under 26,000 pounds. >Here I rented from Ryder for full size trucks or Budget for lighter trucks, >never used Penske. > >Heavy stuff goes in first and up front. The keypunches at the back. I can >suggest a loading plan if you get the system. > >A big problem with IBM is it is heavy and hard to get out of a pickup without >a crane and or crushing yourself. The larger truck is priceless. When you use >the proper equipment it is easy. Make sure everything is tied down well, that >is what the rope is for. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR >USA From marvin at rain.org Sat Mar 15 00:07:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: STAR TREK: THE SEARCH FOR POWER Message-ID: <3E72C24B.DA77CEBE@rain.org> I just received this in email, and thought this might be interesting to the listmembers! ********** "Sulu, set XR4 to CPM, and install the ExtRAM. We're taking her out." "Aye, sir." "Scotty, how long until we can shift into Linux?" "Captain, if you can install the bubble memory, we might have room for Linux and a couple of system utilities. Possibly an application. I think we can do it, but there are too many unknowns. We'll need to do a proper shakedown." "Spock?" "Linux is a massive system, Captain. It may be more than we can handle." "Sulu, compile the Linux kernel, and load it from the cassette drive." "Cassette drive? ......Aye, Captain." "Scotty, I want full power to the internal modem and to the PDD2." "Captain, yer overloadin' her as it is. The power supply just isn't built to run the external LEDs." "Power, Scotty! I want more power! Chekov, attach the mouse to the BCR. Spock, any results on the clock speed?" "Fascinating, Captain. It seems as if the modem interrupt is overwriting the background task timing, which is slowing down system performance." "Yes, Bones? What do you want?" "Jim, you just have a little spreadsheet work, mailing labels, and some word processing. Don't you think you're overdoing it a bit?" "Scotty, where is that power!?" "Captain, I'm givin' ye all she's got. It's that miserable printer with the low impedance causing a backward leak through the low-power indicator. You'll have to install a diode to fix the bias if you want to see the true power level." "Chekov, install the half-wave rectifier." "Yes, sir." "Uhura, any word from Club 100?" "Well, Captain, we've received several interrupts from the ring-detect circuit, but, because we're not multitasking, the data is just sitting there." "Sulu?" "Captain, she's shifting into 600 baud Captain, I'm losing control at the helm. It looks like we've encountered a bad sector." "Put it on visual, Sulu." "Captain, the monitor is not responding, sir. Shifting display to LCD mode." "Spock? What's the problem?" "Unknown, Captain. Linux seems to be rerouting all input to a null device." Trying 'grep'", now muttering, "whatever that is." "Scotty, what's happening with those '/dev' subdirectories?" "Captain, she canna take much morrre.... Another fifteen seconds and the NICAD'll burrrn up for surrre...." "Scotty, we're not using the NICAD." "Sorry, Captain, but I haven't been able to say that for twenty minutes." "Uhura, notify Club 100." "Captain, the display cannot keep up with input data past 300 baud." "Spock, install the SWEEP scroll disable." "Yes, sir." "Captain! I'm getting a message from Club 100...... Apparently, sir, they're going to time-warp previously forgotten modes of data handling; it looks like binary data is being received in the input buffer port now." "Scotty, quick, shift TELCOM to Kermit. This could be a trick to get us back to the standard ROM." "Chekov, we need hardcopy! Fire HP LaserJet!" "Aye, sir." "Bones, how do I see which tasks are active?" "I'm a doctor, Jim, not a command shell!" "Scotty! Why can't I get a directory on this thing!!?" "Captain, ye just canna have the X Window System running in 32K of RAM. It's like matter and antimatter, the system's too bogged down. Yer drainin me quartz crystals." "Chekov, report." "Captain, the little arrow is responding, but the status bar shows we're back to 1980." "Spock? What's happening to our multitasking?" "It appears as if the needs of the one are outweighing the needs of the many." "Captain, she's not even runnin on reserve now. We'll have to do a cold boot for surrre." "Bones?" "It's dead, Jim." From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Mar 15 00:32:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA Message-ID: <72.2b7486d9.2ba42248@aol.com> In a message dated 3/14/03 9:55:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, mail.list@analog-and-digital-solutions.com writes: > A lot of equipment movers use the ratcheting web strapping instead of rope. > 'Tis better than rope but expensive...I use trucker hitches to cinch the load down. Does the same job. Either way you want to make sure the load is secure. IBM stuff will move even with wheel locks and the levelers set down. There is a lot of mass. Paxton Astoria, OR From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Mar 15 00:51:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives In-Reply-To: <00f001c2ea70$54e7a860$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Just getting the OT crud out of my head for today... Just so long as we all do whatever it takes to make Bill Gates into a millionaire. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 15 01:08:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives References: Message-ID: <002301c2eac1$90ee01a0$0100000a@milkyway> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Just so long as we all do whatever it takes to make Bill Gates > into a millionaire. I'm *TRYING* to get rid of Windows, dammit, but Outlook is holding my e-mail to ransom... I actually prefer to use either Pegasus Mail or Mozilla. But the rest of the family wants to use Outlook... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Mar 15 03:36:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives In-Reply-To: <002301c2eac1$90ee01a0$0100000a@milkyway> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030315092921.02bf5e40@pop.freeserve.net> At 07:07 15/03/2003 +0000, Philip Pemberton wrote: >I'm *TRYING* to get rid of Windows, dammit, but Outlook is holding my e-mail >to ransom... I actually prefer to use either Pegasus Mail or Mozilla. But >the rest of the family wants to use Outlook... Have you tried evolution ? It looks very like outlook.. Ta all for the correction on 504Mb limit in bios not msdos - I knew that, but got it wrong. I just blame my memory and it being a good few years since I last hit that problem. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Mar 15 04:50:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030315103339.7437.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Marlin Bates, IV writes: > Hello, > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an Ethernet > card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the net, but > getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. If anyone > can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY appreciate it. > > Thanks > > -Marlin Just so happens I have a few (actually a whole lot) of A2065 Ethernet cards on hand. You will need TCP/IP of some sort, such as AS225, Miami, or other variation. Drop me a line off list and we'll see what we can do for you. And I have extra A2091 SCSI cards and small Quantum drives (105-240 meg) I'd reccomend that you update your Kickstart ROM to 3.1 as well. Just about anything that's good to have needs it. An accelerator card wouldn't hurt either. I'm used to an 030 @ 25 mHz; going to a stock 68000 @ 7 mHz after that is blindingly SLOW. And you need the aformentioned to run the latest Workbench/AmigaDOS 3.9 anyways. You will also need DOS-2-DOS software, which allows the Amiga floppy to read/write MS-DOS formatted 720k disks. This is standard with all Amiga o/s after 2.x Now if you have a CD-ROM attached to the Amiga, you can easily read files burned on a CD-R. Most everything is available on Aminet.org. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Mar 15 04:58:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Free, if you want 'em Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030315105030.00bb5d58@slave> Just had a bit of a clear-out of one of my cupboards, and came across some elderly Intel type stuff which someone may find useful. All untested, as I have nothing to test them on (no, that's the truth!). All items are free if you send me a padded SAE, or £1.50 (UK) if I have to provide the envelope & postage. Items available are: 1x 386DX20 CPU 1x 387DX20 to match above 1x Cyrix 6x86 P150 CPU 4x 30-pin SIMMs, 1 pair & 2 singles, IIRC 1MB each. All items were working when I pulled them, but have sat in a box for so long now that I couldn't honestly say whether or not they still do. The next stop for these is the bin, so grab 'em now if you want 'em. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Mar 15 07:28:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation (2) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030314215343.01a78d58@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030315132120.00b76d50@slave> Second (and second easiest) part done, the Advanced Operations Manual: http://classic-micros.com/iclopd/advancedops/index.html Handbook is next, but at several hundred pages, this is going to take more than a day. Following that will be the BASIC manual, which is also several hundred pages. Finally, the only other bit of documentation I have for the standard OPD, the Xchange manual; another several hundred pages. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From allain at panix.com Sat Mar 15 09:07:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: kevin stumpf's book. References: <000c01c2eaa1$40654c90$a5443b41@amscomputer> Message-ID: <005101c2eb04$09b74f00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Does anyone have a spare copy... Nope, just one here. You can get _information_ on it (not the book itself) on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968424406 Kevin lists his address in the "Store" of his website: http://www.unusual.on.ca John A. From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 09:45:01 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:19 2005 Subject: Troubleshooting lockup problems Message-ID: Hello All, I'm looking for pointers on how to troubleshoot an apparent hardware problem with an Atari 400. The machine runs fine for about 5-10 minutes and then will lock up solid. Turn it off, leave it off for a bit, and get another 5-10 minutes so I'm assuming that there is some sort of heat/temperature issue that is causing it, but I'd appreciate any tips on how I can drill down further to determine the exact cause. Thanks much. dc From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 15 10:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy In-Reply-To: <00a001c2ea82$f47e4840$7d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Keys wrote: > This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on > the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 Even more unbelievable when you consider someone paid $1,859 for the worst "GUI" operating system ever made. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 15 10:20:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on > > the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 > > > Like anyone needed ever more proof that your average windows user is dumb > as a rock and more gullible than even PT Barnum could dream of. Watch out Gene, you may hurt the feelings of someone in the "Windows 1.0" collector world and get a barnacle that will latch onto every word you say and mysteriously pop-up every time you make any further comment on anything having to do with Windows 1.0 ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Mar 15 12:28:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E737010.9010206@deltasoft.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > >>>This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on >>>the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. >>> >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 >>> >>> >>> >>Like anyone needed ever more proof that your average windows user is dumb >>as a rock and more gullible than even PT Barnum could dream of. >> >> > >Watch out Gene, you may hurt the feelings of someone in the "Windows 1.0" >collector world and get a barnacle that will latch onto every word you say >and mysteriously pop-up every time you make any further comment on >anything having to do with Windows 1.0 ;) > > > Hehe. I'm not worried about it. I'm a BOFH with a full set of Intercontinental LARTs. :) vi forever! g. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Mar 15 14:08:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy References: <3E737010.9010206@deltasoft.com> Message-ID: <02ab01c2eb2e$733b8a20$0100000a@milkyway> Gene Buckle wrote: > vi forever! VIM and Linux forever! Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Mar 15 15:28:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Troubleshooting lockup problems References: Message-ID: <023b01c2eb39$57fb85c0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien Cymbal" To: Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 9:42 AM Subject: Troubleshooting lockup problems > Hello All, > > I'm looking for pointers on how to troubleshoot an apparent hardware problem > with an Atari 400. > > The machine runs fine for about 5-10 minutes and then will lock up solid. > Turn it off, leave it off for a bit, and get another 5-10 minutes so I'm > assuming that there is some sort of heat/temperature issue that is causing > it, but I'd appreciate any tips on how I can drill down further to determine > the exact cause. > > Thanks much. > > dc The following involves working on the computer with power ON and the case OFF. If you are not accustomed to working with electronics this way, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS. Find a can of "component cooler" at Radio Shack (Cat # 64-4321) or at your local electronics store. It is a can of freon or similar material with a small tube to allow you to confine the spray to a small area. Run the Atari until it overheats and slip the cover off. Carefully, with the cover off and POWER still ON, use the spray on one chip at a time, wait a few seconds, move on to another chip. When you hit the right chip the computer may begin working again. You may have to reset the computer (or cycle the power) after each "chill" as there is nothing to bring it back to its "senses" except hitting reset. You get the idea, I hope. Use the opposite (heat) effect if a device won't work until the box "warms up". Good luck! Stuart Johnson From ceo at coherent-logic.com Sat Mar 15 16:42:00 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed References: <20030315103339.7437.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <001301c2eb43$acaf48e0$8500000a@music> i have a copy of AVCterm if you need it. +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "ghldbrd" To: Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 3:33 AM Subject: Re: Amiga Term Softs needed > Marlin Bates, IV writes: > > > Hello, > > > > I am currently resurrecting an Amiga 2000, but I have neither an Ethernet > > card or Terminal software. There are tons of programs on the net, but > > getting them from the net to the Amiga is proving difficult. If anyone > > can help me in this chicken/egg scenario, I would REALLY appreciate it. > > > > Thanks > > > > -Marlin > > Just so happens I have a few (actually a whole lot) of A2065 Ethernet cards > on hand. You will need TCP/IP of some sort, such as AS225, Miami, or other > variation. Drop me a line off list and we'll see what we can do for you. > And I have extra A2091 SCSI cards and small Quantum drives (105-240 meg) > > I'd reccomend that you update your Kickstart ROM to 3.1 as well. Just about > anything that's good to have needs it. An accelerator card wouldn't hurt > either. I'm used to an 030 @ 25 mHz; going to a stock 68000 @ 7 mHz after > that is blindingly SLOW. And you need the aformentioned to run the latest > Workbench/AmigaDOS 3.9 anyways. > > You will also need DOS-2-DOS software, which allows the Amiga floppy to > read/write MS-DOS formatted 720k disks. This is standard with all Amiga o/s > after 2.x Now if you have a CD-ROM attached to the Amiga, you can easily > read files burned on a CD-R. > > Most everything is available on Aminet.org. > > Gary Hildebrand > ST. Joseph, MO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 15 16:44:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Troubleshooting lockup problems In-Reply-To: from "Damien Cymbal" at Mar 15, 3 10:42:12 am Message-ID: > Hello All, > > I'm looking for pointers on how to troubleshoot an apparent hardware problem > with an Atari 400. > > The machine runs fine for about 5-10 minutes and then will lock up solid. > Turn it off, leave it off for a bit, and get another 5-10 minutes so I'm > assuming that there is some sort of heat/temperature issue that is causing YEs, it does sound like a thermal problem... The normal way to troubleshoot this is firstly to check all the obvious conditions when it locks up (power supply voltage(s) being top of the list), and then to use freezer spray to cool chips one at a time to see if you can find one that iwll let it restart, or to use a hot air gun to heat chips (carefully) to see if you can find the one that locks it up. -tony From ken at seefried.com Sat Mar 15 16:54:00 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Fujitsu FBM-U502GU-J Bubble Memory Drive Message-ID: <20030315225039.26457.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I've got a pair of Fujitsu FBM-U502GU-J bubble memory drives, with associated FBM-C128GA cartridges. I'd really be overjoyed if someone knew something about them and could share that info with me. I've got more detailed info at http://seefried.com/kjs3/nerd/whatisit/fujitsu-bm.htm Thanks... Ken From ken at seefried.com Sat Mar 15 16:55:00 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Motorola Memory Systems MMS1132 Q-Bus Memory Card Message-ID: <20030315225158.26464.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I'm looking for the jumper settings for a Motorola Memory Systems MMS1132 Q-Bus memory card. I've got more info at http://seefried.com/kjs3/nerd/whatisit/mms1132.htm. Thanks... Ken From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 15 16:57:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Hyperion 3032 questions Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030315180059.0f4f2d12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi All, This past week I picked up a Hyperion model 3032 computer with a low serial number (<800) made in Canada. I found some info on it on the web but not much. Can anyone tell me if this will run PC-DOS? I powered it up and it appears to boot PC DOS 5.0 fine but then I can't get any response from the keyboard so I don't know if it's a DOS problem or hardware problem. Anyone have pinouts or other info on the keyboard port? Joe From ken at seefried.com Sat Mar 15 16:59:00 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: J-11/PDP-11 - Litton Industrial Automation Systems MPC-II Microcontroller Message-ID: <20030315225454.26473.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I've found what might (or might not) be a real treasure, a pair of Litton Industrial Automation Systems MPC-II Microcontrollers. These are J-11 based industrial controllers, that include among other things video from a Motorols 6845 CRTC. I'm looking for any information I can collect about this thing. More info at http://seefried.com/kjs3/nerd/whatisit/mpcii.htm. Thanks... Ken From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 15 17:48:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 (1984) Message-ID: See below. Says it all. Reply-to: LisAndyp@aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 17:56:29 EST From: LisAndyp@aol.com Subject: Tandy 1000 (1984) - can we donate I'm in a suburb outside of NYC and have a Tandy 1000 from 1984 we would like to donate. are you interested? lisa kovitz 212 614 5041 (day) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 15 17:55:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 Message-ID: I'm currently fighting with an ASR33 trying to make it perform a carriage return. Currently, the carriage is stuck all the way on the right side and refuses to budge. I tried to find something inside that would release it but I haven't located the magic tab. I've noticed something else. When I have the punch turned on, the '8' bit doesn't punch. For instance, if I hit "RETURN" I get the 1 + 4 + 128 bits punched, but no 8 (1 + 4 + 8 = 13). I don't see anything obvious, like a level that's come loose for example. I also lost the tab that holds the little plastic cover down over the reader mechanism. In trying to take the main cover off so I could look inside, I didn't notice the two screws on the front until after much wrangling, and just after the tab broke off and either fell or flew into oblivion. Whoever designed the ASR33 must have sold their soul to the devil to make it all work. It's amazing how intricate and delicate everything is, and how damn kludgy as well. I'm impressed, but not. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jim at jkearney.com Sat Mar 15 18:13:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy References: <3E737010.9010206@deltasoft.com> Message-ID: <008c01c2eb50$69cb5700$0f01090a@xpace.net> > vi forever! Speaking of vi, I have something neat here in front of me... Bill Joy's personal copy of the vi 2.6 source with 2.7 changes hand annotated. I got it from him at Berkeley in the early 80's not long before he left his 'permanent grad student' status to co-found Sun. My hazy recollection is that I asked him for the sources of ex/vi and of the Berkeley Pascal compiler (that he also wrote) and he pulled it off the shelf and handed it to me. As a lowly undergrad I didn't have online access to stuff like that, or at least things weren't as findable as they are today. Obligatory historical notes: most of the public terminals at UCB then were ADM-3's, almost dumb as rocks, thus the modal ASCII command set and slow serial optimized screen updates. The screen module was pulled outby Ken Arnold, one of my classmates, cleaned up and became curses, motivated almost entirely by the needs of rogue and mille bourne. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sat Mar 15 19:11:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Interdata 7/16 image References: Message-ID: <3E73CDFA.4E80C2F2@verizon.net> I'm looking for a color image of an Interdata 7/16 minicomputer. Spies minicomputer orphanage has an nice B/W of the front panel, I'm looking for a nice color image. Thanks, Eric From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sat Mar 15 19:22:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Interdata 7/16 image References: <3E73CDFA.4E80C2F2@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3E73D08C.336C3B1C@verizon.net> Look what I found on the net! http://www.newbegin.com/itemmis_9.html Not really what I had in mind, but... Eric Chomko wrote: > > I'm looking for a color image of an Interdata 7/16 minicomputer. > Spies minicomputer orphanage has an nice B/W of the front panel, > I'm looking for a nice color image. > > Thanks, > Eric From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sat Mar 15 19:40:01 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: OT: univac III Message-ID: <00f301c2eb5c$9f4960a0$ced5d63f@amscomputer> For the same opening bid as the Univac III we could just buy 30,000 used uniforms!! :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2813422512 From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sat Mar 15 20:06:01 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Interdata 7/16 image References: <3E73CDFA.4E80C2F2@verizon.net> <3E73D08C.336C3B1C@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002b01c2eb60$208acbb0$b800a8c0@arctura> I know that front panel Oh so well. My second computer job was programming a 7/32. I have a 7/16 front panel I bought off eBay for sentimental reasons. It's almost the same except it has single LEDs populated instead of 7 segment LEDs. I can take a picture of it for you, but it's pretty banged up. I have a manual containing the schematics and microcode for the 7/32. Al Kossow scanned it and it's on his site. http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/interdata/29-535_7-32C_Maint.pdf -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Interdata 7/16 image > Look what I found on the net! > > http://www.newbegin.com/itemmis_9.html > > Not really what I had in mind, but... > > Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > I'm looking for a color image of an Interdata 7/16 minicomputer. > > Spies minicomputer orphanage has an nice B/W of the front panel, > > I'm looking for a nice color image. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric From nampcjr at yahoo.com Sat Mar 15 20:58:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: PCjr and SCSI - ? Message-ID: <20030316025534.68081.qmail@web20711.mail.yahoo.com> I recently made a good purchase on some PCjr stuff that includes a SCSI sidecar made by PC Enterprises....This was neat not only for the fact that you could hook a HDD up to the Pcjr, but it was bootable as well! I have heard of other ways to hook the PCjr up to SCSI devices other than through the PCE sidecar (TMC 850jr) and have even heard roumors.....they were bootable as well...This would have taken some clever programming and the addition of EPROM's...etc...Im wondering if anyone out here ever had such a project going, completed and would like to share the knowledge of the "How-to" Brian From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Mar 15 21:09:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Freeware CDs Available for RSX-11 and RT-11 Message-ID: <3E73EA20.8EE7BD3@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of making up a second (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 I will be picking up some Memorx CD-R blanks in a few days and starting on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 15 21:20:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: OT: univac III In-Reply-To: <00f301c2eb5c$9f4960a0$ced5d63f@amscomputer> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: > For the same opening bid as the Univac III we could just buy 30,000 used > uniforms!! :-) > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2813422512 Prison Jumpsuit in Orange is really appealing! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Mar 15 21:23:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: DUP Problem with RT-11 References: <3E6F9231.CE6870A9@b9rvnospamcompsys.to> Message-ID: <3E73ED65.BFE1BE14@compsys.to> >"Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > I have been attempting for some to to write ALL 65536 blocks > from one RT-11 partition to a second RT-11 partition. Does > anyone know of what is wrong with what I am doing? I am > using V5.03 of RT-11 under the Supnik emulator and I do the > command: > COPY/DEVICE/NOQU DU0:/START:0./END:65535. DU1:/START:0. > However, ONLY 65535 blocks are transferred. On the other hand, > If I do the command: > COPY/DEVICE/NOQU DU0:/START:65524./END:65535. DU1:/START:0. > then TWO blocks are transferred. > > Can anyone help? Any suggestions other than going into the DUP.SAV > program and fixing this bug? Jerome Fine replies: After 10 years, I finally (by accident) just tried the correct combination. But it still takes TWO commands to do what should be done with just ONE command: COPY/DEVICE/NOQU DU0: DU1: which results in the following command: COPY/DEVICE/NOQU DU0:/START:0./END:65534. DU1:/START:0. I then followed with this EXPLICIT command (just thought I should try it today and found that it works): COPY/DEVICE DU0:/START:65535./END:65535. DU1:/START:65535. After that I checked the result (actually before and after the previous command): DIFF/BINARY DU0:/START:0./END:65535. DU1:/START:0. and found that the last ONE block COPY command had indeed worked. If you actually read this far and you would like a copy of an enhanced BINCOM, let me know via an e-mail and after I have fixed a few bugs, I will release it for hobby use. The DEC distributed version of BINCOM does NOT have the ability to read block 65535. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat Mar 15 22:15:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Hyperion 3032 questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030315180059.0f4f2d12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030315180059.0f4f2d12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030316041203.A0DAB23140@www.fastmail.fm> I assume the macihne you have is a Dynalogic Hyperion, so what follows is what I seem to remember about what will work & what won'. I have read somewhere that this machine will run PC-DOS 1.0, but if you use the DIR command, it promptly freezes. I think I also remember reading that (oddly enough) MS-DOS 5.0 or 6.0 will work without complaint. However it will fail the infamous "Flight Simulator Test" regardless. If you can find the version of DOS that shipped with it (H-DOS), you'll be in good shape. On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:00:59, "Joe" said: > Hi All, > > This past week I picked up a Hyperion model 3032 computer with a low > serial number (<800) made in Canada. I found some info on it on the web > but not much. Can anyone tell me if this will run PC-DOS? I powered it > up and it appears to boot PC DOS 5.0 fine but then I can't get any > response from the keyboard so I don't know if it's a DOS problem or > hardware problem. Anyone have pinouts or other info on the keyboard > port? > > Joe > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 15 22:30:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Today's yield ... Message-ID: <3E73FD03.5020807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, here is my report of today's trip: 1 x HP9000K-class HPK400CM long rack with 1 x HP DiskArray with 12 x 2GB drives also in the cabinet 1 x "HP6000 SCSI SE", basically just 2 x DSS2 DAT drives 1 x DEC7620 wow, a 7000 in my garage I have not checked out the inside, don't know my way in those yet, it's all behind closed doors. 1 x DEC3000 looks like the successor to the BA23 uVAX-II 2 x StorageWork cabinets, one long one short. 33 x RZ28B drives (2GB) 2 x RZ29 drives (4GB) 1 x HSZ40B 2 x HSZ40C blessed with tape drives: 1 x TLZ07 DAT 2 x TZ86 DLT III 1 x TZ88 DLT IV 1 x TSZ07 9-track 1 x TZ867 DLT III library 2 x QIC tape drives (150MB, 18 tapes) 2 x VT510 1 x HP Terminal 10+ x "DW22A-AA" boxes, some kind of SCSI converters, they uses lots of those, don't know what for. unfortunately the HP9000 rack tumbled over the DEC3000 during the first mile return trip. I had it all strapped up, but the strap on the HP was too low so it tumbled over it. The HP is not damaged much at all as far as I can see. The DEC3000 has some broken plastic, but still stands fair after I put her back together. The DEC7000 was in the same strap but it didn't fall. It only rolled over to the other side of the truck. Funny. cheers, -Gunther From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 15 22:40:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! References: Message-ID: <3E73FF8E.5040606@aurora.regenstrief.org> I said: >>When you guys rent a truck make sure you >>claim a business rate. After all, we are a voluntary non-profit >>"organization" that helps businesses get rid of their old computing >>equipment and save the environment and the technology. We share >>equipment with people in need, including private collections and >>museums. That's what we do, so that's what we can claim business >>rates for. William Donzelli wrote: > Except without an EIN, its fraud... Please explain: if I just said what I reported here (actually I didn't even use the term 'non profit organization') why would I have to have an EIN and why would it be fraud? -Gunther From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Mar 15 22:42:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA In-Reply-To: <72.2b7486d9.2ba42248@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030315233200.00a2a1f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Paxton, I found some sets of ratcheting web strapping pretty inexpensively at our local BJ's. It's on of those warehouse stores like Sams's Club, Price Club, or whatever your local variety is. They were less expensive there than even at Northern Tool. I'm not sure how many of those names you are familiar with, with you being on the west coast, but I think you could correlate to your local variety. Those same type of straps is what my buddy that keeps the 24' Ryder permanently rented uses. He was the one that suggested that as a source for them. And it's good to keep some cardboard or shop rags for the sharp edges, so as not to cut your straps up. Best Regards At 01:29 AM 3/15/03 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/14/03 9:55:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, >mail.list@analog-and-digital-solutions.com writes: > > > > A lot of equipment movers use the ratcheting web strapping instead of rope. > > > >'Tis better than rope but expensive...I use trucker hitches to cinch the load >down. Does the same job. Either way you want to make sure the load is secure. >IBM stuff will move even with wheel locks and the levelers set down. There is >a lot of mass. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Mar 15 23:34:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Today's yield ... In-Reply-To: from "Gunther Schadow" at Mar 15, 2003 11:26:43 PM Message-ID: <200303160531.h2G5VnZB001771@shell1.aracnet.com> > 1 x HP9000K-class HPK400CM long rack with You scare me :^) I've seen K-class systems, not what I'd want at home! > 1 x DEC7620 wow, a 7000 in my garage I have not checked out the inside, > don't know my way in those yet, it's all behind closed doors. You have a 7000, you haven't figured out how to open it up, AND you wasted all this time typing this up?!?! You've better willpower than I would! > 1 x DEC3000 looks like the successor to the BA23 uVAX-II I'm sure there might be someone somewhere that like's 3000's, but I'm not one of them. In fact based on the way you describe this one this has got to be one that scares me almost as much as that K-Class :^) > blessed with tape drives: > 1 x TLZ07 DAT > 2 x TZ86 DLT III > 1 x TZ88 DLT IV > 1 x TSZ07 9-track > 1 x TZ867 DLT III library > 2 x QIC tape drives (150MB, 18 tapes) > > 2 x VT510 Oh, drool! As if the 7000 wasn't bad enough, just this stuff would make one heck of a nice haul!!! > 10+ x "DW22A-AA" boxes, some kind of SCSI converters, they uses lots > of those, don't know what for. The HSZ's talk differential SCSI, could it that these are SE-to-DIFF converters. Will such things work with the HSZ's? I've got two big array's, but they're sitting in storage till we get a house, so I've not been able to experiment with them. Overall, I think I'm green with envy!!! Well, except for that K-Class :^) Zane From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Mar 15 23:40:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: <001301c2eb43$acaf48e0$8500000a@music> References: <20030315103339.7437.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <001301c2eb43$acaf48e0$8500000a@music> Message-ID: <20030316052333.825.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> John Willis writes: > i have a copy of AVCterm if you need it. > Never heard of it. Is it another TCP/IP stack or is it like Envoy? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 04:39:01 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Panasonic Personal Partner (old PDA) Message-ID: <20030316103609.50676.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Hello listmates, I'm looking for any and all data on the Panasonic Personal Partner. Before ya'll go a-Googling, here's what I already have: first, data from its OS launch (www.pocketsoft.com/pocketdos.html), second, data about a rebranded Nixdorf version (http://www.i-m.de/home/compmuseum/index_e.htm). Can anyone help? Evan Koblentz From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 16 07:24:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Hyperion 3032 questions In-Reply-To: <20030316041203.A0DAB23140@www.fastmail.fm> References: <3.0.6.16.20030315180059.0f4f2d12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030315180059.0f4f2d12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030316080413.0f6f23ce@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:12 PM 3/15/03 -0600, you wrote: >I assume the macihne you have is a Dynalogic Hyperion, Actually this one was built by Bytec-Comterm but I assume that it's the same. so what follows is >what I seem to remember about what will work & what won'. > >I have read somewhere that this machine will run PC-DOS 1.0, but if you >use the DIR command, it promptly freezes. > >I think I also remember reading that (oddly enough) MS-DOS 5.0 or 6.0 >will work without complaint. However it will fail the infamous "Flight >Simulator Test" regardless. > >If you can find the version of DOS that shipped with it (H-DOS), you'll >be in good shape. I have no idea what version or variant of DOS shipped with it. That's one of the hings that I'm trying to find out. Joe > >On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:00:59, "Joe" said: >> Hi All, >> >> This past week I picked up a Hyperion model 3032 computer with a low >> serial number (<800) made in Canada. I found some info on it on the web >> but not much. Can anyone tell me if this will run PC-DOS? I powered it >> up and it appears to boot PC DOS 5.0 fine but then I can't get any >> response from the keyboard so I don't know if it's a DOS problem or >> hardware problem. Anyone have pinouts or other info on the keyboard >> port? >> >> Joe >> >-- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > >-- >http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 16 08:41:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: FA: HP 7957/7958 hard drives with HP BASIC and HPL installed Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030316094447.0f773760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I just listed a pair of HP hard drives on E-bay. One is a HP 7958B 155 Mb drive with HPL, BASIC V 4.0, two copies of BASIC V 6.3 and Basic V 5.0 installed and operating. The other is a HP 7957A 80Mb dirve with HFS BASIC 6.3 installed. This drives and software will work with the HP 9000 200 and 300 computers (9826, 9836, 9920, etc) or the drives can be formatted and used on the HP IPC (Intergral personal Computer) or other computers that support CS-80 drives. The 7958 has HPL version 2.0 installed. This is the same language as used on the HP 9825. With it you can run your 9825 SW on a 9826 or other 9000 200. See Joe From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Mar 16 09:07:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <3E73FF8E.5040606@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: > Please explain: if I just said what I reported here (actually I > didn't even use the term 'non profit organization') why would > I have to have an EIN and why would it be fraud? I'll retract the EIN comment, because a non-incorporated entity can still get business rates - if it is for a legitimate business use. An individual posing as a business with the sole intention to get some sort of perk (business rates on truck rentals, for example) is fraudulent. Going out and fetching big computers for a personal collection is not business. It has also been pointed out that it changes the liability and insurance coverages quite dramatically on both sides of the deal - you and Penske. Don't get into any accidents. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From at258 at osfn.org Sun Mar 16 09:20:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Geoff Rochat has been talking with them about it. On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > Here is a list of what's available on that IBM 4331 in Massachusetts... Any > idea how much floor space this would use up? Also, does any of it run on > standard 120V AC? I realize a truck w/ lift gate would be ideal to haul > this, but would any single pieces fit in a pickup truck? > > I doubt I could take this over, but I have opened communications w/ the > current owner. I asked if he would be willing to give away the system, but > no reply yet ... Would anyone like help rescuing this system? I'm about an > hour away from it... > > > > >1 3803 Tape Control Unit > >2 3420 Tape Drives > >1 3179 Console > >4 3278 Monitors > >1 4331 Main Frame(including boot diskette) > >4 3340 Disk Drives > >13 3340 Disk Packs > >1 2821 Control Unit > >1 1403 N1 Printer with Print Train > >1 2540 Card Reader Punch > >3 29 Keypunch > >2 83 Card Sorter > >1 129 Punch/Verifier > > All Cables and Connectors > > All Manuals > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ceo at coherent-logic.com Sun Mar 16 11:25:00 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed References: <20030315103339.7437.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <001301c2eb43$acaf48e0$8500000a@music> <20030316052333.825.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <002301c2ebe0$a96f23b0$8500000a@music> Actually it's terminal emulation software--like minicom or ProComm or HyperTerminal It may be capable of X/Y/Zmodem or Kermit file transfers, so you could theoretically use it to transfer files via null modem cable. John +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "ghldbrd" To: Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 10:23 PM Subject: Re: Amiga Term Softs needed > John Willis writes: > > > i have a copy of AVCterm if you need it. > > > Never heard of it. Is it another TCP/IP stack or is it like Envoy? > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sun Mar 16 12:39:00 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Programmer's Utilities Guide for the CP/M Family of Operating Systems Message-ID: Hello All, I recently inherited a Visual 1050 that I am attemping to resurrect. The docs I got include _CP/M Plus (CP/M Version 3) Operating SystemUser's Guide_ from Digital Research. In its forward, this manual mentions that the doc set should also include: _CP/M Plus (CP/M Version 3) Operating System Programmer's Guide_ and _Programmer's Utilities Guide for the CP/M Family of Operating Systems_ I've found online copies of OSPG via google, but haven't found anything concerning the utils guide. Did such it actually exist? Does it exists by some other name? Thanks. dc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 16 13:31:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 15, 3 03:47:08 pm Message-ID: > I'm currently fighting with an ASR33 trying to make it perform a carriage > return. Currently, the carriage is stuck all the way on the right side > and refuses to budge. I tried to find something inside that would release > it but I haven't located the magic tab. > > I've noticed something else. When I have the punch turned on, the '8' bit > doesn't punch. For instance, if I hit "RETURN" I get the 1 + 4 + 128 bits > punched, but no 8 (1 + 4 + 8 = 13). The 2 problems could be related. The 'block level description' of the machine is : Incoming data goes to the solenoid on the RX mechanism (rear left of the 'typing unit' (main chassis)). The RX mechanism samples the position of the solenoid armature (there's a camshaft in the middle of said unit), and thus converts the data to parallel. The parallel data goes onto the rails that run across the machine under the carriage (one rail for each bit). 3 mechanisms use these rails : a) The carriage, which decodes printing characters and prints them b) The punch, mechanically coupled to the left end of the rails c) The function unit ('Stunt box') which decodes control characters and performs the appropriate function. So if the return character is not getting to the rails correctly then firstly it won't punch properly and secondly, it won't be detected by the approipriate lever in the function unit. So let's get that missing bit back first. Are you running the machine in LOCAL mode (i.e. from its own keyboard to the printer?). If so, the problem could be in the transmitter side (contacts on the keyboard, for example). Or it could be a problem in the RX unit (sticking lever). I think it's safe to assume that the solenoid driver is not the problem here (it's not going to mangle only one bit). Incidentally, the carriage is fed by the 'spacing mechanism' which drives the left hand sprocket for the toothed belt. At the bottom of this sprocket shaft, right against the casing, is the spacing ratchet with the pawls to move it on one character, and to allow it to be released for a carriage return. IIRC, _carefully_ frobbing levers in this area will release the pawls and allow the carriage to return. > Whoever designed the ASR33 must have sold their soul to the devil to make > it all work. It's amazing how intricate and delicate everything is, and > how damn kludgy as well. I find them rather beautiful... -tony From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Mar 16 14:28:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 References: Message-ID: <3E74DD21.3DD4A199@verizon.net> This has me thinking that I should drag mine out and test it. Being the new millennium and all... Tony Duell wrote: > > > I'm currently fighting with an ASR33 trying to make it perform a carriage > > return. Currently, the carriage is stuck all the way on the right side > > and refuses to budge. I tried to find something inside that would release > > it but I haven't located the magic tab. > > > > I've noticed something else. When I have the punch turned on, the '8' bit > > doesn't punch. For instance, if I hit "RETURN" I get the 1 + 4 + 128 bits > > punched, but no 8 (1 + 4 + 8 = 13). > > The 2 problems could be related. The 'block level description' of the > machine is : > > Incoming data goes to the solenoid on the RX mechanism (rear left of the > 'typing unit' (main chassis)). > > The RX mechanism samples the position of the solenoid armature (there's a > camshaft in the middle of said unit), and thus converts the data to parallel. > > The parallel data goes onto the rails that run across the machine under > the carriage (one rail for each bit). > > 3 mechanisms use these rails : > a) The carriage, which decodes printing characters and prints them > b) The punch, mechanically coupled to the left end of the rails > c) The function unit ('Stunt box') which decodes control characters and > performs the appropriate function. > > So if the return character is not getting to the rails correctly then > firstly it won't punch properly and secondly, it won't be detected by the > approipriate lever in the function unit. > > So let's get that missing bit back first. Are you running the machine in > LOCAL mode (i.e. from its own keyboard to the printer?). If so, the > problem could be in the transmitter side (contacts on the keyboard, for > example). Or it could be a problem in the RX unit (sticking lever). I > think it's safe to assume that the solenoid driver is not the problem > here (it's not going to mangle only one bit). > > Incidentally, the carriage is fed by the 'spacing mechanism' which drives > the left hand sprocket for the toothed belt. At the bottom of this > sprocket shaft, right against the casing, is the spacing ratchet with the > pawls to move it on one character, and to allow it to be released for a > carriage return. IIRC, _carefully_ frobbing levers in this area will > release the pawls and allow the carriage to return. > > > Whoever designed the ASR33 must have sold their soul to the devil to make > > it all work. It's amazing how intricate and delicate everything is, and > > how damn kludgy as well. > > I find them rather beautiful... > > -tony From steven_nikkel at ertyu.org Sun Mar 16 16:15:01 2003 From: steven_nikkel at ertyu.org (Steven Nikkel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help Message-ID: Tried connecting pins 6 & 8 on a 9 pin and still no luck. >If I remember, try connecting pins 6&8 together and see if that helps. > >(we have a special adapter that does just that). > >-Bob From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 16 17:19:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 In-Reply-To: <3E74DD21.3DD4A199@verizon.net> from "Eric Chomko" at Mar 16, 3 03:22:57 pm Message-ID: > This has me thinking that I should drag mine out and test it. Being the > new millennium and all... I can assure you that the ASR33 does not suffer from any Y2K bug :-) -tony From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Sun Mar 16 20:01:01 2003 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA Message-ID: Hello all, Thanks for all of the responses. It appears that there are several parties interested in this, so I am withdrawing my hat from the ring. I have neither the floor space nor the domain knowledge to make it all work. However, I only live about an hour away from this system, so if the lucky new owner wants help loading/hauling it, I will be glad to offer any assistance I can, including space in my pickup truck (Dodge Dakota) for smaller items... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Mar 16 20:27:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! References: Message-ID: <3E7531BA.4040905@aurora.regenstrief.org> William Donzelli wrote: > I'll retract the EIN comment, because a non-incorporated entity can still > get business rates - if it is for a legitimate business use. An > individual posing as a business with the sole intention to get some sort > of perk (business rates on truck rentals, for example) is fraudulent. > Going out and fetching big computers for a personal collection is not > business. Hmm, your notion of "fraudulent" sounds kind of harsh. I may not have the same knowledge background in this business that you have. I don't want to be a crook here so if you think I'm wrong, please help. They have two rate schedules, the private one being more than twice as much per mile than the business rate. Why is that so? Why should someone who carries those computers away for a profit pay only half as much as one who carry these things away for the fun of it? If I part the computers out and sell everything on ebay or, worse, for gold and scrap value, would that make me eligible for the business rate? Who am I hurting by saying that I want the business rate and telling them the truth about what I do? > It has also been pointed out that it changes the liability and insurance > coverages quite dramatically on both sides of the deal - you and Penske. > Don't get into any accidents. I paid on a personal credit card and had a personal contract and bought the LDW for $15/d, so I think I was clear on that end. As a conclusion let's put is this way: when asked the question if I am private or business I simply don't accept the fact that I should be paying twice as much if I answer a certain way. So I negociate a better rate without really lying about anything. So, I am just sharing with you the experience that there is opportunity for us to negotiate. And that I think that Penske is the best shop for our trucking needs. Still think I'm committing fraud? If so, please explain. thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 16 20:30:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: today's finds Message-ID: <20030317022709.VPCG977.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> A Pair of 2001 Pets, one with the chicklet keyboard one without, A Commodore 64, A sun 3/80 A few external floppies for the commodores There is also someone with an IBM 3511 SCSI enclosure with an IBM 350 and 365. They look like one of my old office machines but the dual PPro makes makes it interesting. The problem is that I've almost run out of space. I'll have to start getting rid of a few machines in order to fit any more in. -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Mar 16 20:53:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:20 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <3E7531BA.4040905@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: > Hmm, your notion of "fraudulent" sounds kind of harsh. I may not > have the same knowledge background in this business that you have. I > don't want to be a crook here so if you think I'm wrong, please help. OK, I am sorry if I was a bit harsh. > They have two rate schedules, the private one being more than > twice as much per mile than the business rate. Why is that so? When I started getting trucks for business, I asked why as well. From what I was told by the Ryder agent, it is an insurance issue. The insurance companies make deals with the rental firms. One of the aspects of these deals is that there is a far greater risk of truck/person/property damage if the driver is using the truck for personal reasons. I suppose they figure that when the trucks are used for business use, chances are the guy driving it has more experience. I can see their point - driving a 24 foot straight, full of stuff, can be a handful, and I have certainly seen some individuals that probably should not have tried it! If you are renting for business, chances are you have rented before. Remember, the insurance business is all about probablities and statistics. > Why should someone who carries those computers away for a profit > pay only half as much as one who carry these things away for the > fun of it? The easy way to get around this is to form an organization. > If I part the computers out and sell everything on ebay or, worse, > for gold and scrap value, would that make me eligible for the > business rate? Yes. > Who am I hurting by saying that I want the business rate and > telling them the truth about what I do? The insurance companies. OK, they might deserve it, but it still is not right to cheat them. > As a conclusion let's put is this way: when asked the question if > I am private or business I simply don't accept the fact that I > should be paying twice as much if I answer a certain way. So I > negociate a better rate without really lying about anything. > So, I am just sharing with you the experience that there is > opportunity for us to negotiate. And that I think that Penske is > the best shop for our trucking needs. Still think I'm committing > fraud? If so, please explain. It is all a "letter of the law" over "spirit of the law" issue. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 21:13:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Classic find at the Dayton Computerfest Message-ID: <20030317031040.75223.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> In addition to modern stuff I found, I picked up an Intel SDK-86 trainer - it has screwposts for +5VDC, -12VDC and GND, an unremarkable 8086, several peripheral chips, 8 x D2142 RAMs, 8 x MAN71A 7-segment LED displays and a pristine prototyping area. Since I have stack of +5VDC -> -12VDC DC-DC converters (from Qbus COMBOARDs), I was planning on attaching one to this board so I can run it off of +5VDC only. Now to find docs... -ethan From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Mar 16 21:28:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: References: <3E7531BA.4040905@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030316220541.00a459a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hey Guy's, I hate to rain on your parade but ... >> If I part the computers out and sell everything on ebay or, worse, >> for gold and scrap value, would that make me eligible for the >> business rate? >Yes. WRONG. Getting a business license is what would make you eligible for the business rate. > One of the aspects of these deals is that there is a far greater risk > of truck/person/property damage if the driver is using the truck for > personal reasons. A well run business would pay what it cost to do the job right and chalk up the expenses involved as the cost of doing business. A business would be more concerned with liability and personal injury than many a personal user ever would. Do you remember about a year to a year and a half ago when someone on this list rented what was probably the lowest cost truck they could fit their stuff into, then overloaded it, and broke down. Busted an axle as I recall. Could have had an accident or even killed someone. That's how too many a personal user would do it, and the rental company and their insurance carrier very well know it through experience. At 09:50 PM 3/16/03 -0500, you wrote: > > Hmm, your notion of "fraudulent" sounds kind of harsh. I may not > > have the same knowledge background in this business that you have. I > > don't want to be a crook here so if you think I'm wrong, please help. > >OK, I am sorry if I was a bit harsh. > > > They have two rate schedules, the private one being more than > > twice as much per mile than the business rate. Why is that so? > >When I started getting trucks for business, I asked why as well. From >what I was told by the Ryder agent, it is an insurance issue. The >insurance companies make deals with the rental firms. One of the aspects >of these deals is that there is a far greater risk of >truck/person/property damage if the driver is using the truck for >personal reasons. I suppose they figure that when the trucks are used for >business use, chances are the guy driving it has more experience. I can >see their point - driving a 24 foot straight, full of stuff, can be a >handful, and I have certainly seen some individuals that probably should >not have tried it! If you are renting for business, chances are you have >rented before. Remember, the insurance business is all about probablities >and statistics. > > > Why should someone who carries those computers away for a profit > > pay only half as much as one who carry these things away for the > > fun of it? > >The easy way to get around this is to form an organization. > > > If I part the computers out and sell everything on ebay or, worse, > > for gold and scrap value, would that make me eligible for the > > business rate? > >Yes. > > > Who am I hurting by saying that I want the business rate and > > telling them the truth about what I do? > >The insurance companies. OK, they might deserve it, but it still is not >right to cheat them. > > > As a conclusion let's put is this way: when asked the question if > > I am private or business I simply don't accept the fact that I > > should be paying twice as much if I answer a certain way. So I > > negociate a better rate without really lying about anything. > > So, I am just sharing with you the experience that there is > > opportunity for us to negotiate. And that I think that Penske is > > the best shop for our trucking needs. Still think I'm committing > > fraud? If so, please explain. > >It is all a "letter of the law" over "spirit of the law" issue. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Mar 16 21:46:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030316220541.00a459a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: > I hate to rain on your parade but ... > > >> If I part the computers out and sell everything on ebay or, worse, > >> for gold and scrap value, would that make me eligible for the > >> business rate? > > >Yes. > > WRONG. Getting a business license is what would make you eligible > for the business rate. Well, maybe not then...I don't know Penske's rules. However, as was pointed out, being non-incorporated and doing the above scenario above certainly is legitimate business, as long as the taxman gets his share (Schedule C, I think? I don't do it anymore, since I incorporated. Anyway, that is what accountants are for). No license is needed, at least in some states. I would think, however, that Penske would want to see some sort of legitimate business paper if it can't have an EIN. > Busted an axle > as I recall. Could have had an accident or even killed someone. That's how > too many a personal user would do it, and the rental company and their > insurance carrier very well know it through experience. Exactly, so you could actually think of the business rate as "normal" and the personal rate as "built in insurance". William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Mar 16 22:19:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 References: Message-ID: <3E754B94.84D7F9B2@verizon.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > > This has me thinking that I should drag mine out and test it. Being the > > new millennium and all... > > I can assure you that the ASR33 does not suffer from any Y2K bug :-) > You haven't seen where I store it! > -tony From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Mar 16 22:35:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" HP 5036A Monitor ROM Message-ID: By request, you can currently find source code for the HP 5036A Monitor ROM here: http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/5036a/5036A.HTML This source code was generated by unassembling the 5036A ROM and then adding the comments, labels, and symbols from the source listing in the manual. I have not had time yet to proof read all of the comments that I manually typed into the source from the manual, but I have verified that this source reassebles into binary code that matches the ROM. Appendex E of the manual contains notes on running the demo programs in the ROM {EHCO, ANDGT, CONV, WTM, SQRL, ORGAN, ROCT, STW, SNAKE}. When I have more time I will try to add that info. -Glen From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Sun Mar 16 22:52:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration Message-ID: <005b01c2ec40$7a819550$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> A year ago I acquired a Southwest Technical Products Corp. CT-1024 TV Typewriter II. It was a basket case. The main board was purchased as just a bare board and the original owner had used what ever parts he had. (SWTPC clipped a corner on bare boards they sold without a kit of parts.) The keyboard was an old Keytronics unit. I wanted to restore it to "factory" condition. My brother had just given me a nice Metcal soldering station so stripped the main board of all parts and only lifted a few pads. Over the next 6 months I collected a complete set of parts. In the last month I got serious about this project and I have finished except for a new clear acrylic plastic case. This unit is now closer to "factory" condition then when it was assembled in 1976 or 1977. All of the ICs are the correct part (7474 not a 74LS74 substitute.) The capacitors new but are the same type as the original. They tend to be smaller in size then the 1975 versions. I was able to get all new Molex connectors. There was a recent flame war on what is new and what is original but I think this restoration improved this classic computer terminal. Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley Thanks to Jay West for providing the web servers for www.swtpc.com. From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Mar 16 23:22:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration Message-ID: That brings back some memories. The first computer I had back when I was in the 7th grade was a KIM-1 that a friend of my father gave me. Eventually I bought an 8KB RAM expansion board and a SWTP terminal kit so I could run BASIC on the KIM-1. The SWTP terminal kit I had looked about the same as your pictures, except it included a full beige plastic case. The kit must not have been too difficult to put together since I don't remember having any problems getting it built and working. I later managed to blow something up on it once though when I somehow plugged one of the Molex connectors in backwards, but a local computer club member was able to repair the damage for me at the time. After a couple of years I traded the KIM-1 and the SWTP terminal in towards a brand new Apple II+. That's one trade I wish I never made. >Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages. >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 16 23:33:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: VMS Webserver book Message-ID: <200303170530.h2H5UZWP014106@shell1.aracnet.com> On Friday I happened to get lucky and find a copy of a new VMS book that I've been wanting to get, but hadn't bothered to order from Amazon. The book is "OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD -- The Nonstop Webserver", by Alan Winston. While it's decidedly on the expensive side at $45 I've been finding it to be an excellent book and well worth the money. One thing I found interesting is that a large portion of Alan's target audience seems to be OpenVMS Hobbyists. If anyone has been thinking of picking the book, I would highly recommend that you do. Now I'm going back to reading it! Zane From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 23:44:00 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Midwest Classic vintage computer area In-Reply-To: <200303170525.h2H5Piwd020581@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: <20030317054102.72537.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Martin, Thanks for sharing this information. I can't attend - I live in Boston and I'm quite a tight budget - but I think there's a way we can help each other. I'm a reporter at eWeek (the ZD magazine formerly called PC Week), and seperately, I'm writing a book about the history of handheld computing. The slant is, what can the history teach us about the future? Obviously handheld electronic games count as handheld computers. I'm well aware of the mainstream products, like the mid-1970s Mattel games (spent many hours with my football game as a child!), Gameboy/Lynx, etc. I bought a copy of the book Supercade, but to my disappointment it didn't focus much on handhelds. In your opinion, what was the FIRST electronic handheld game? What was the first to give users the choice of many games in one? First to actual have graphics? Color graphics? Did any systems have other more computer-like software? I'm interested in discussing this at length. If you're still online though, perhaps we could chat now, just to say hello and introduce ourselves: I always enjoy meeting others who are into this stuff. Thanks, Evan Koblentz (617.461.7194) --- Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > Hope this is appropriate for here. I'm a vintage > computer collector (as > well as video game consoles and such), and > co-organizer of the Midwest > Classic (www.midwestclassic.net). We have three > main areas (vintage > video game consoles, vintage computers, and > pinball). > > I'd like to build up the participation (displays, > attendance, etc.) of > people from the vintage computer scene. Beyond the > 8 bit micro's that are > already on display (my collection at last year's > event can be seen here - > http://www.goatstore.com/mwcp_mus.htm), I'd love to > get some mini's there > as well as more informative (and fun) displays, and > anything else people > would be willing to set up. > > The show itself is non-profit (though if you > yourselves have equipment, > software, etc. you want to sell, that's wonderful), > and is on Saturday > June 7th from 10am to 8pm. The location is: > Nicolet High School > 6701 North Jean Nicolet Road > Glendale, Wisconsin 53217 > > For those not familiar, Glendale is a suburb on the > north side of > Milwaukee. > > > Feel free to contact me if you're intersted! > > > Marty > wgungfu@uwm.edu > > ClassicGaming.Com > > Atari Gaming Headquarters > www.atarihq.com > > Museum of Home Video Gaming > www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 23:44:47 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Midwest Classic vintage computer area In-Reply-To: <200303170525.h2H5Piwd020581@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: <20030317054105.85606.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Martin, Thanks for sharing this information. I can't attend - I live in Boston and I'm quite a tight budget - but I think there's a way we can help each other. I'm a reporter at eWeek (the ZD magazine formerly called PC Week), and seperately, I'm writing a book about the history of handheld computing. The slant is, what can the history teach us about the future? Obviously handheld electronic games count as handheld computers. I'm well aware of the mainstream products, like the mid-1970s Mattel games (spent many hours with my football game as a child!), Gameboy/Lynx, etc. I bought a copy of the book Supercade, but to my disappointment it didn't focus much on handhelds. In your opinion, what was the FIRST electronic handheld game? What was the first to give users the choice of many games in one? First to actual have graphics? Color graphics? Did any systems have other more computer-like software? I'm interested in discussing this at length. If you're still online though, perhaps we could chat now, just to say hello and introduce ourselves: I always enjoy meeting others who are into this stuff. Thanks, Evan Koblentz (617.461.7194) --- Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > Hope this is appropriate for here. I'm a vintage > computer collector (as > well as video game consoles and such), and > co-organizer of the Midwest > Classic (www.midwestclassic.net). We have three > main areas (vintage > video game consoles, vintage computers, and > pinball). > > I'd like to build up the participation (displays, > attendance, etc.) of > people from the vintage computer scene. Beyond the > 8 bit micro's that are > already on display (my collection at last year's > event can be seen here - > http://www.goatstore.com/mwcp_mus.htm), I'd love to > get some mini's there > as well as more informative (and fun) displays, and > anything else people > would be willing to set up. > > The show itself is non-profit (though if you > yourselves have equipment, > software, etc. you want to sell, that's wonderful), > and is on Saturday > June 7th from 10am to 8pm. The location is: > Nicolet High School > 6701 North Jean Nicolet Road > Glendale, Wisconsin 53217 > > For those not familiar, Glendale is a suburb on the > north side of > Milwaukee. > > > Feel free to contact me if you're intersted! > > > Marty > wgungfu@uwm.edu > > ClassicGaming.Com > > Atari Gaming Headquarters > www.atarihq.com > > Museum of Home Video Gaming > www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 23:46:01 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Oops! Supposed to be private! Re: Midwest Classic vintage computer area In-Reply-To: <200303170525.h2H5Piwd020581@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: <20030317054155.99872.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry all! Please disregard. EK --- Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > Hope this is appropriate for here. I'm a vintage > computer collector (as > well as video game consoles and such), and > co-organizer of the Midwest > Classic (www.midwestclassic.net). We have three > main areas (vintage > video game consoles, vintage computers, and > pinball). > > I'd like to build up the participation (displays, > attendance, etc.) of > people from the vintage computer scene. Beyond the > 8 bit micro's that are > already on display (my collection at last year's > event can be seen here - > http://www.goatstore.com/mwcp_mus.htm), I'd love to > get some mini's there > as well as more informative (and fun) displays, and > anything else people > would be willing to set up. > > The show itself is non-profit (though if you > yourselves have equipment, > software, etc. you want to sell, that's wonderful), > and is on Saturday > June 7th from 10am to 8pm. The location is: > Nicolet High School > 6701 North Jean Nicolet Road > Glendale, Wisconsin 53217 > > For those not familiar, Glendale is a suburb on the > north side of > Milwaukee. > > > Feel free to contact me if you're intersted! > > > Marty > wgungfu@uwm.edu > > ClassicGaming.Com > > Atari Gaming Headquarters > www.atarihq.com > > Museum of Home Video Gaming > www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Mar 16 23:52:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: An organization (was: Re: Penske is our friend! References: Message-ID: <3E7561E5.2060707@aurora.regenstrief.org> William Donzelli wrote: >>Why should someone who carries those computers away for a profit >>pay only half as much as one who carry these things away for the >>fun of it? > > The easy way to get around this is to form an organization. Right. That's what I brought up about 2 years ago when I first joined this list. I believe as an organization we could even get some sort of recognition with Penske as a "partner". For now I am using the "Classic Computer Rescue Squad" as the organization. It's not incorporated or anything, but ... to come back to the original topic, I still don't understand how claiming business rate would be unlawful. I am still thankful for any chapter and verse where one can look that up. To me the business rate issue is still largely an arbitrary inequality where private people are being milked because they don't know any better. This insurance thing is not so clear to me since you are not really insured anyway. I gathered something of a cap of $50000 liability limitation of the customer, that's an insurance with $50000 deductible! That can't be so expensive. That's why I have taken out the LDW insurance for $15 extra. If a zero-deductible insurance in the amount of $50000 is available for $15 a day, the risk can't be that high (1 per 3000 customer days). Even if they didn't have this 50000 cap, I'd much rather take out a fair insurance and pay what's right than to be ripped off just because I don't belong to some insider market. But the good news of the story (only slightly clouded by the fraud allegations) is that Penske does tend to not rip you off if you just talk with them. cheers, -Gunther From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 17 00:07:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: An organization (was: Re: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <3E7561E5.2060707@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: > Right. That's what I brought up about 2 years ago when I first > joined this list. I believe as an organization we could even > get some sort of recognition with Penske as a "partner". For now > I am using the "Classic Computer Rescue Squad" as the organization. Get together a group of guys and incorporate as a non-profit. At the state level, it is incredibly easy to do (at the federal level, much hoop jumping needs to be done). Cheap, too. Problem solved. > This insurance thing is not so clear to me since you are not > really insured anyway. I gathered something of a cap of $50000 > liability limitation of the customer, that's an insurance with > $50000 deductible! That can't be so expensive. That's why I have > taken out the LDW insurance for $15 extra. If a zero-deductible > insurance in the amount of $50000 is available for $15 a day, the > risk can't be that high (1 per 3000 customer days). Even if they > didn't have this 50000 cap, I'd much rather take out a fair > insurance and pay what's right than to be ripped off just because > I don't belong to some insider market. It has nothing to do with the insurance deals between the rental company and the renters (like you). It has to do with the rental company and the insurance company. When a truck breaks, for example, Penske files a claim and the insurance company pays it out. Except in extreme circumstances, the insurance company does not care who busted the truck, or who was driving. They just know that individuals break the trucks more often than businesses, so the insurance companies have to figure this in. It is really no different than the reason 18 year old drivers have to pay thru the nose for insurance and a 40 year old doesn't. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From larry at laurelnet.com Mon Mar 17 00:24:40 2003 From: larry at laurelnet.com (Larry Laurel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help Message-ID: c20 = An unexpected halt occurred, and the system is configured to enter the kernel debug program instead of entering a system dump. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Steven Nikkel > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 4:21 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RS/6000 Console Help > > > I just obtained an RS/6000 C20 and am having problems > getting access to the serial console. I know the null > cable and terminal I'm using works, but I can't get anything > to display. > It runs through its post and ends up with c20 on the front > panel display, I don't know if its booted up correctly > and displaying its name or stalled at an error. > Help! From WA8MFL at aol.com Mon Mar 17 00:25:36 2003 From: WA8MFL at aol.com (WA8MFL@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? Message-ID: <133.1c984c57.2ba26065@aol.com> Stumbling across this thread, I couldn't help but notice the problem. One of the first order of business on the '89 is to check the power supply Molex connector on the back of the supply. This has a habit of getting too hot and carbonizing. Bypassing the heavy current lead is the usual way to handle that. You also need to check on the controller board to see if it's set up for hard-sectored disc or softsectored ones. The hard sectored (10 sectors) are probably long gone from this world. I still have mine and it occasionally gets the dust blown away. For those who learned to use a good typewriter this is the best keyboard ever installed on a PC. From SAMFAUST at aol.com Mon Mar 17 00:26:02 2003 From: SAMFAUST at aol.com (SAMFAUST@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Fujitsu disk drive info ? Message-ID: Hi: I am looking for the same information for the power supply (just the output wiring diagram). I have a source for a lot more of the supplies if you need any. Thanks, Joe F. From doc at docsbox.net Mon Mar 17 00:26:28 2003 From: doc at docsbox.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: <3B1E892D-55F4-11D7-858A-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Please forgive me if this is Off Topic... > > > I have a 1 gig drive in a 486. The BIOS sees the whole 1.2 gig (wd > caviar 21200) > and I have set the parameters from the plate on the drive into the > bios... > > But FDISK insists that the drive is only 504 MB. Who ate half of my > disk drive?? Some BIOSen will only address 1024 cylinders, even if they "see" more. OnTrack, Drive Rocket, EZDrive, any of the drive overlay programs will get around that. -- Doc Shipley (( And when thou hack'st her box, thou shalt Austin, Texas )) lay that pipe with exceeding great vigour, (( yea, even unto the screaming and clawing doc@vaxen.net )) and biting. -- Cantrell From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Mar 17 00:26:54 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Midwest Classic vintage computer area In-Reply-To: <20030317054102.72537.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001701c2ec4c$8d0dd9c0$c63dcd18@D73KSM11> > In your opinion, what was the FIRST electronic > handheld game? What was the first to give users the > choice of many games in one? First to actual have > graphics? Color graphics? Did any systems have other > more computer-like software? > As to the first, there's some debate about it, but perhaps the first strictly electronic handheld is Waco's "Tic-tac-toe" circa 1972. See http://users2.ev1.net/~rik1138/Misc/WacoTicTacToe.htm -W From 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de Mon Mar 17 00:27:21 2003 From: 520055239069-0001 at t-online.de (Harald Husemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Reset password on Bianca/ Brick M In-Reply-To: <200303121812.KAA09481@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200303121812.KAA09481@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200303132152.48178.bofh@dh9dat.de> Hi, not really sure if this a real "classic" one, excuse if it isn't... But, I hope some of you can help: I got a Bianca/ Brick M from eBay, for very low money (abt. 10$), and I'd like to use it. Unfortunately, it's password-protected... Anyone know how to reset it? Just disassembled it, and pulled out the little battery, but the password is still set. What can I do? Thanks for your help, Harald -- ======================================================= Dipl. Ing. Harald Husemann E-Mail: bofh@dh9dat.de www: www.deepthought.prima.de Projects: rawt.sourceforge.net From OwnedByDogs at grandecom.net Mon Mar 17 00:28:27 2003 From: OwnedByDogs at grandecom.net (Kevin Monceaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 Available in Virginia In-Reply-To: <1047602140.4585.11.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: If it wasn't such a long drive from central Texas I'd be interested. Kevin On 13 Mar 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote: > I've decided that the PDP-11/24 I have is not getting enough attention > since I've acquired the 11/83. So, if anyone is interested, I've got > the following available for pick up near Blacksburg in Southwest > Virginia: From vance at neurotica.com Mon Mar 17 00:28:59 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy In-Reply-To: <00a001c2ea82$f47e4840$7d0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: Didn't they come with older versions of Aldus Pagemaker? Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Keys wrote: > This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on > the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 From vance at neurotica.com Mon Mar 17 00:29:26 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <3E729C64.7020807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: Dave McG and I have used Penske many times. Their trucks are also much less likely to break down that UHaul. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, I just closed a deal for a run to get some 60 miles from > here. I was "called to duty" on the Classic Computer Rescue Squad. > I tell you Penske is your friend! I got a liftgate truck for > $75 and $0.18/mi. When you guys rent a truck make sure you > claim a business rate. After all, we are a voluntary non-profit > "organization" that helps businesses get rid of their old computing > equipment and save the environment and the technology. We share > equipment with people in need, including private collections and > museums. That's what we do, so that's what we can claim business > rates for. > > cheers, > -Gunther From vance at neurotica.com Mon Mar 17 00:29:53 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > Hi, I just closed a deal for a run to get some 60 miles from here. I > > was "called to duty" on the Classic Computer Rescue Squad. I tell you > > Penske is your friend! I got a liftgate truck for $75 and $0.18/mi. > > When you guys rent a truck make sure you claim a business rate. After > > all, we are a voluntary non-profit "organization" that helps > > businesses get rid of their old computing equipment and save the > > environment and the technology. We share equipment with people in > > need, including private collections and museums. That's what we do, so > > that's what we can claim business rates for. > > Except without an EIN, its fraud... Only if you try to get out of taxes. You don't have to register a business if you don't want to incorporate it, but you still have to present personal liability in case of an accident. If it's incorporated, you limit your own liability in the matter. The liability laregly lies with the business. Peace... Sridhar From che1hsh at sccc.susc.ac.ir Mon Mar 17 00:30:22 2003 From: che1hsh at sccc.susc.ac.ir (Hamid reza Shahbaazi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: FSOT: Perkin Elmer stuff Message-ID: Dear Joe, Can you give me information about the manual? Where are you? can give me your mail address? Best Regards, >>>> Hi, I picked up a couple of blue three ring binders with Perkin Elmer logos on them. Both have manuals in them. One is for PECESS Software Packet for a UV/VIS/NIR Spectroscopy and has some printouts with BASIC listings. The other has a manual for Command Descriptions Reference Manual for CDS-3 Application program. Does anyone want them? I'll trade for something I can use like HP manuals, Tektronix 4041 manuals or ???? Joe. From mhstein at canada.com Mon Mar 17 00:30:49 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Big Want List Message-ID: <01C2EAE0.8FA31A00@mse-d03> Hi, Sellam: Tell us more about this large project, especially if this equipment has to be in working condition or is just for display. Although I'm annoyed by people who say, "Gee, you should have asked me last week, I just threw out...", I'm afraid I did indeed scrap a Z2D (or equivalent), a 103, a Rainbow, a Spinwriter and most of a North Star. I do still have a CS-2 (Equivalent to a Z2D) with a TopHat (dual 8" floppy) and a BRZ-II fan system which fits underneath the CS-2, a System 3 (late model, single 8" drive & HD), several System 1's, and have access to several more System 3's, 100s, 300s and 400s as well as several boxes of cards, manuals, software and sales literature. Also a C-5 Terminal and, I think, most of a C-10. I've also got a few other miscellaneous terminals, Falcos and an ADM-11; what other "periperhals" are you looking for? I also have two Vector mz's, but no software or docs and I'm not sure I have all the cards; I loaded one with Cromemco cards and an MFM HD because it is easier to work on and quieter than the Cromemcos. Finally, I have 1.9 Hyperions (Hyperia?), (one missing the front cover), a user guide and various software diskettes but no other manuals. And of course I still have the various books & stuff that you and I talked about way back when. There are two problems however: some, if not all, of the Cromemco stuff is promised to Dan Cohoe (if & when I get around to sorting through it and getting as much as possible working), so you'd have to talk to him as well as me, and I really have no interest whatsoever in packing, crating and shipping this stuff from Toronto to California. So, if you're interested and have solutions to our problems, email me at mhscc@canada.com or phone me at 416-532-4322. Hope we can find a way to help you out at least a little bit. mike in Toronto (in the finally starting to warm up frozen north of Canada) ---------------------Original Message------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:13:08 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Classic Computers Mailing List , Subject: Big Want List I'm working on a rather large project and am looking for the following computers and hardware: Cromemco Z2D (and periperhals) Cromemco System Three (and peripherals) Centronics printer (103 or any model) DEC Rainbow 100 (and peripherals) DEC Pro350 Heathkit H11 (and peripherals) Micro-Term ACT I (terminal) NEC SpinWriter NorthStar Dimension Ohio Scientific Challenger (any model, prefer II or III) OSM Zeus (any model) SWTPc 6800 (and peripherals) Vector Graphics (prefer MZ/2) Fortune Systems 32:16 Dynalogic Hyperion Corvus Concept (and peripherals) (Peripherals include monitors, keyboards, terminals, disk drives, hard drives, printers, etc.) I am also interested in any and all collateral material including: * System software (originals preferred) * Application software (originals preferred) * Manuals and schematics * Related magazines * Related books * Ephemera such as posters, buttons, mugs, etc. If you have anything on the above list please contact me with an asking price. International or domestic. I can also be reached by phone at +1 925/294-5900. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From beatleish at hotmail.com Mon Mar 17 00:31:16 2003 From: beatleish at hotmail.com (Kelsie McLarnin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: HM6116LP-3 Message-ID: You wrote to Patrick " there's a 1982 "Semiconductor Data Book Hitachi IC Memories" on my desk, and a scanner in the next room. The book has seven pages about the HM6116LP-2, HM6116LP-3, and HM6116LP-4, including a general decription, pinout, data tables, signal waveforms, and various diagrams. " I am trying to fix a little PLC that uses the HM6116LP-3 and I need a data sheet such as you describe. I would much appreciate the pages you describe in your reply to Patrick above. Regards, Rob rmclarni@bcit.ca From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Mon Mar 17 00:31:43 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting In-Reply-To: <005101c2eb04$09b74f00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20030315175246.73152.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I'm trying to locate the manufacturer or source for a device used to lift equipment into racks. This is a manually operated device (or electric?) used to lift disk drives, servers, etc. and place them in racks. They should be portable as I've seen HP CE's use them. Can anyone give me a pointer where I might find information on this equipment, or even what its called? I'd like to use this to stack and move heavier equipment (HP7937s, RA80s, etc). Thanks! Lee Courtney From rachael at rachael.dyndns.org Mon Mar 17 00:32:11 2003 From: rachael at rachael.dyndns.org (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive manual Message-ID: <377.204T1800T13813532rachael@rachael.dyndns.org> Hi have just collected two NEC FD1165-FQ, does anyone have any infomation about such a drive ? Google doesnt seem to have any usefull link on those. Need to know if its a standart shugard bus and the pinout of the power connector. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From edunn at frontier.net Mon Mar 17 00:32:38 2003 From: edunn at frontier.net (Builder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Apple //e disposal Message-ID: <002401c2eb59$5a347840$9a2d0443@edunn> I have an Apple //e that I need to dispose of, but I hate to take it to the dump. Is anyone interested in it know of any place who would take it off my hands. It has a Cider hard drive and a 1 mb ram card and 2 printers. Any help would be appreciated Thanks Ed Dunn Cortez, CO From nicola at focuseek.com Mon Mar 17 00:33:06 2003 From: nicola at focuseek.com (Nicola Baldini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: <001301c2eb43$acaf48e0$8500000a@music> Message-ID: <44D3CDAE-578B-11D7-BA52-003065D0B678@focuseek.com> On Sabato, mar 15, 2003, at 23:38 Europe/Rome, John Willis wrote: >> >> Just so happens I have a few (actually a whole lot) of A2065 Ethernet >> cards >> on hand. You will need TCP/IP of some sort, such as AS225, Miami, or >> other >> variation. Drop me a line off list and we'll see what we can do for >> you. >> And I have extra A2091 SCSI cards and small Quantum drives (105-240 >> meg) >> >> Anyone knows where i can find an Ethernet card form my 3000? An A2065 would be great, here in Italy they are very rare. Regards. Nicola From rachael at rachael.dyndns.org Mon Mar 17 00:33:40 2003 From: rachael at rachael.dyndns.org (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive manual Message-ID: <376.205T1950T9853678rachael@rachael.dyndns.org> Hi have just collected two NEC FD1165-FQ, does anyone have any infomation about such a drive ? Google doesnt seem to have any usefull link on those. Need to know if its a standart shugard bus and the pinout of the power connector. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: rachael@rachael.dyndns.org url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From brendle at ems.psu.edu Mon Mar 17 00:34:08 2003 From: brendle at ems.psu.edu (Jeff Brendle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: anyone working with IBM PC-RTs? Message-ID: Just a quick "ping" to see if there any any people out there who are working with the old IBM PC/RT platform. Had a request from a friend to get my two old 6150s up and running so he could have access to them since he wants to work on the port of 4.4BSD (these are currently running "AOS" which is a 4.3), but seem to have a toasted monitor & might need to track down another of them (with the funky square connector) or maybe someone with the cable that connects to the also-strange serial so I could try a Teleray/HDS/DEC terminal or some such thing (think I might be able to locate an old one). Thought that before I go too far, it might be worth my while to see if any folks here are doing the platform (I fear these are going to be too rare to find much, but where better to check? =-)). thanks! -j Jeff Brendle Office: 248A Deike Bldg./(814)865-3257/fax 863-7708 Desktop Support Spv. Home: #210 Parkgate 349 Toftrees Ave. Penn State - Coll. of E&MS State College, PA / (814)861-8180 Mailto:bli@psu.edu AOL/MSN/Yahoo! IM - JSBrendle From doc at docsbox.net Mon Mar 17 00:34:35 2003 From: doc at docsbox.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Amiga Term Softs needed In-Reply-To: <002301c2ebe0$a96f23b0$8500000a@music> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Mar 2003, John Willis wrote: > Actually it's terminal emulation software--like minicom or ProComm or HyperTerminal > It may be capable of X/Y/Zmodem or Kermit file transfers, so you could theoretically > use it to transfer files via null modem cable. Hrrm. I have a couple of different versions of AmigaTerm here. I'll have to get an Amiga up and running to dupe it, but will be doing that in the next few days anyway. I can generate a backup image if need be. I picked up the carload of Amiga gear Thursday that was posted to the list by James Rice. We just got home from our vacation, and I haven't had a chance to catalogue the haul, but I can already say for sure: "DAY-yum!! Thanks, James!" The whole thing was unexpected, and came at a time when I'm already over-committed, so I won't get to do much at all with it for a couple of weeks. When I do, I'll probably be offering some software and possible some hardware & docs to the list. Doc From rick at holygrail.com Mon Mar 17 00:35:06 2003 From: rick at holygrail.com (Rick Boarman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Complete AS400 9406 for sale Message-ID: <0CE748B0B142454CBBBC50DA8D9B8D3E0D370A@boarmaster.matrix6.com> I have the following AS400 system for sale. It was up and running prior to me rescuing it from a dead dot com auction. Please email me for more information. Rick Rack 1 Contents: - 9309-2 rack - Power Supply: 21F9008 - Case containing 26 slots: o 59X4819 FN2615 (Has 2 EIA I/O cards + Floppy Controller) o 86G8303 SCSI Controller o 85F9041 FC 6112 (RL) o 74F1455 o 85F8935 FC 6501 (RL) o 85F9107 Ethernet o 85F8909 6500 IOP o 16G7241 FC 2592 (RL) o 56F0269 o 17G2598 FC 2700 (RL) IO Regulator o 17G2598 FC 2700 (RL) IO Regulator o 21F9209 - RAID Array 9337 o 8 1g drives (55F9818) - Tape drive 9337 - Control panel 21F5769 Rack 2 Contents: - 9309-2 rack - Power Supply: 10F9298 - IO Card unit feature 5010/5030 03F8338 o 76X4669 FC 6019 (RL) o 46F5467 FC 6130 (RL) o 46F5467 FC 6130 (RL) o 46F5467 FC 6130 (RL) o 68F7321 FC 6134 (RL) o 26F5028 FC 6031 (RL) o 26F5028 FC 6031 (RL) o 08F5361 FC 6130(RL) o 59X4270 Token ring - RAID Array 9337 o 8 1g drives 55F9818 Lots of cables & Parts Three manuals Several tapes From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Mar 17 00:35:36 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Programmer's Utilities Guide for the CP/M Family of Operating Systems Message-ID: <16030375.49571@webbox.com> you can find all the cp/m 3 docs here... (as well as 2.2, etc) best regards, Steve Thatcher http://www.cpm.z80.de/drilib.html >--- Original Message --- >From: "Damien Cymbal" >To: >Date: 3/16/03 10:36:28 AM > Hello All, > >I recently inherited a Visual 1050 that I am attemping to resurrect. > >The docs I got include _CP/M Plus (CP/M Version 3) Operating SystemUser's >Guide_ from Digital Research. > >In its forward, this manual mentions that the doc set should also >include: > >_CP/M Plus (CP/M Version 3) Operating System Programmer's Guide_ > >and > >_Programmer's Utilities Guide for the CP/M Family of Operating Systems_ > >I've found online copies of OSPG via google, but haven't found anything >concerning the utils guide. Did such it actually exist? Does it exists by >some other name? > >Thanks. > >dc From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Mon Mar 17 00:36:04 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: IBM 4331 in MA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030317032219.74723.qmail@web20801.mail.yahoo.com> Rich, I have talked with Dom regarding a donation to the Computer History Museum. If we get the machine I'll drop you a line and take you up on your offer of assistance. Lee Courtney --- Rich Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > Thanks for all of the responses. It appears that > there are several parties > interested in this, so I am withdrawing my hat from > the ring. I have > neither the floor space nor the domain knowledge to > make it all work. > > However, I only live about an hour away from this > system, so if the lucky > new owner wants help loading/hauling it, I will be > glad to offer any > assistance I can, including space in my pickup truck > (Dodge Dakota) for > smaller items... > > Rich B. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Mon Mar 17 00:36:31 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Midwest Classic vintage computer area In-Reply-To: <20030313204922.495597F47@dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Mar 13, 2003 02:49:22 PM Message-ID: <200303170525.h2H5Piwd020581@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Hope this is appropriate for here. I'm a vintage computer collector (as well as video game consoles and such), and co-organizer of the Midwest Classic (www.midwestclassic.net). We have three main areas (vintage video game consoles, vintage computers, and pinball). I'd like to build up the participation (displays, attendance, etc.) of people from the vintage computer scene. Beyond the 8 bit micro's that are already on display (my collection at last year's event can be seen here - http://www.goatstore.com/mwcp_mus.htm), I'd love to get some mini's there as well as more informative (and fun) displays, and anything else people would be willing to set up. The show itself is non-profit (though if you yourselves have equipment, software, etc. you want to sell, that's wonderful), and is on Saturday June 7th from 10am to 8pm. The location is: Nicolet High School 6701 North Jean Nicolet Road Glendale, Wisconsin 53217 For those not familiar, Glendale is a suburb on the north side of Milwaukee. Feel free to contact me if you're intersted! Marty wgungfu@uwm.edu ClassicGaming.Com Atari Gaming Headquarters www.atarihq.com Museum of Home Video Gaming www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum From jss at subatomix.com Mon Mar 17 01:06:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83135444168.20030317010311@subatomix.com> On Friday, March 14, 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > we can claim business rates > > Except without an EIN, its fraud... IANAL, but I seriously doubt that any such statutes exist in the USA. The only thing I see happening here is the rental company and the customer coming to an agreement on a certain price for the company's services. On each of the several rescues I've done with a rented truck, I was offered the business rate by the Ryder clerks. They didn't ask me what I was doing on the trip; they simply offered the business rate outright. I do not feel that I defrauded Ryder in accepting their offered rate. -- Jeffrey Sharp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 17 01:25:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration References: <005b01c2ec40$7a819550$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <003001c2ec56$4955d660$0100000a@milkyway> Michael Holley wrote: [snip] > Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm Wow. I'm speechless. That is one amazing repair. I think it's high time for me to smash my piggy-bank, raid my bank account and buy a nice soldering station :-) I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far too overpowered for repair work. It's great for stripboard (Veroboard) assembly, though. The solder I'm using has a melting point of 340 C (IIRC). The iron heats up to 450 C (according to Antex) and seems to have no temperature regulation whatsoever... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 17 01:32:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration References: Message-ID: <003a01c2ec57$4e2124a0$0100000a@milkyway> Glen S wrote: > That brings back some memories. The first computer I had back when I > was in the 7th grade was a KIM-1 that a friend of my father gave me. Wow. You had a KIM-1? Lucky you... I've spent two years (give or take) looking for one and I've never found one for sale yet. I've spent roughly the same amount of time looking for a Synertek SYM-1. Still no luck... I've got a ton of "common" computers (about the rarest is my Psion Organiser II) but nothing older/rarer than the Psion. > Eventually I bought an 8KB RAM expansion board and a SWTP terminal > kit so I could run BASIC on the KIM-1. The SWTP terminal kit I had > looked about the same as your pictures, except it included a full > beige plastic case. Beige? Ugh. Pass the spraypaint... > The kit must not have been too difficult to put > together since I don't remember having any problems getting it built > and working. I later managed to blow something up on it once though > when I somehow plugged one of the Molex connectors in backwards, but > a local computer club member was able to repair the damage for me at > the time. If only those kind of clubs still existed... Now, I've got some spare cash... I think it's high time to fix the Jupiter Ace. Properly. Does anyone have a schematic for a 2114 RAM tester? I think I may have blew one of the replacement RAMs... Anyone putting an order in with BG Micro anytime soon??? > After a couple of years I traded the KIM-1 and the SWTP > terminal in towards a brand new Apple II+. That's one trade I wish I > never made. :-( Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 17 01:37:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <004201c2ec57$f71edca0$0100000a@milkyway> Hi all, I'm now starting on the Jupiter Ace again and I've got one really big question that's been bugging me for a while. How the heck does the Jupiter Ace display *graphics* on-screen? It looks like the chargen is text-only and there's no way 256 characters can cover the entire screen. Does anyone know how Jupiter Cantab pulled this off? My Z80 is *very* rusty - otherwise I would have disassembled the ROM and found out myself. And yes, the Ace is well on its way to getting fixed. I need to rebuild a few vias and replace some IC sockets, but it should work by the time I'm finished with it. I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were *apparently* used in some of the Sinclair machines (Spectrum and ZX-series IIRC). Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From oldcomp at cox.net Mon Mar 17 02:25:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration References: <005b01c2ec40$7a819550$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <3E7585AA.2090001@cox.net> Excellent work! That's really pretty. -Bryan > >This unit is now closer to "factory" condition then when it was assembled in >1976 or 1977. All of the ICs are the correct part (7474 not a 74LS74 From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Mar 17 04:09:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Transistors (1 of 2) Message-ID: Articles named as found on MSNBC newspage links to Newsweek. Still thought you might enjoy! [Article Begins...] The Irresistible Transistor Fifty years ago this month, a man embraced his inner hobbyist and gave thousands of engineers their first transistor By Harry Goldstein Is it possible to love a transistor? Certainly what Jack Ward feels for the Raytheon CK722, the first transistor sold to the general public, goes beyond casual affection. He's collected thousands of early transistor specimens, including dozens of CK722s. His stately yellow Victorian home on a quiet, tree-lined street in Brookline, Mass., has a basement crammed with enough code oscillators, Geiger counters, radios, hand- wrought circuit boards, transistorized hearing aids, subminiature vacuum tubes, diodes, resistors, and capacitors to make any collector of vintage electronic gear drool. He's written one book about the CK722 and has started another about early transistor history at RCA. When he's not working as associate director of quality for the Bedford, Mass., facility of gene-chip maker Affymetrix Inc., he's busy maintaining his virtual Transistor Museum on the Web and is widely acknowledged by fellow collectors as a techno- anthropologist par excellence. [...Article Ends] Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/bmp which had a name of Valero5.bmp] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Mar 17 04:19:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Transistors (2 of 2) Message-ID: Articles named as found on MSNBC website links to Newsweek. Thought you might like! [Article begins...] Newsweek Weblogs / The Practical Futurist Michael Rogers [...] March 14, 2003 / 1:16 PM ET THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW I'm on vacation for a week in Death Valley (which is not, by the way, the new name for Silicon Valley), hoping to catch a bit of the springtime desert flower bloom. But before I sign off, here are a couple of interesting pieces from new magazines. IEEE Spectrum has a nostalgic story on early transistors, especially the classic CK722, the first such device widely sold to hobbyists. I still remember saving my allowance at age 10 to buy my first CK722; I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do with it, but you could just feel the magic in that tiny component. (In the end I decided to build an audio tone generator solely powered by copper and zinc electrodes stuck into a lemon, thus celebrating the fact that we were now liberated from the power requirements of vacuum tubes. Practicality was never a major factor in my early electronics work.) The CK722 came up again in my life. A little over a decade later, Esquire assigned me to profile the Nobel-prize winning inventor of my beloved transistor, William Shockley, who unfortunately by then had transferred his energies to pseudoscientific theories about race and intelligence. When the article came out, Shockley was shocked that a kid who could reminisce so fondly about the CK722 would turn around and call its inventor a deluded racist. When he called to complain, all I could tell him was that he should have stuck to semiconductors. [...Article Ends] Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/bmp which had a name of Valero5.bmp] From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Mar 17 05:55:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Classic find at the Dayton Computerfest In-Reply-To: <20030317031040.75223.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E75C59F.32146.B456FE5D@localhost> > In addition to modern stuff I found, I picked up an Intel SDK-86 > trainer - it has screwposts for +5VDC, -12VDC and GND, an unremarkable > 8086, several peripheral chips, 8 x D2142 RAMs, 8 x MAN71A 7-segment > LED displays and a pristine prototyping area. Since I have stack of > +5VDC -> -12VDC DC-DC converters (from Qbus COMBOARDs), I was planning > on attaching one to this board so I can run it off of +5VDC only. Cool ... looking for one since quite some time. > Now to find docs... I may have them - at least the main book. I need to look (You know my junkpile). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Mar 17 06:00:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: Apple //e disposal In-Reply-To: <002401c2eb59$5a347840$9a2d0443@edunn> References: <002401c2eb59$5a347840$9a2d0443@edunn> Message-ID: <20030317114318.5801.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Builder writes: > I have an Apple //e that I need to dispose of, but I hate to take it to the > dump. Is anyone interested in it know of any place who would take it off my > hands. It has a Cider hard drive and a 1 mb ram card and 2 printers. > Any help would be appreciated > Thanks > Ed Dunn > Cortez, CO Hmmmmm, wouldn't mind getting the HD for my Platinum IIe --- don't really need the rest. My g/f picked up three dot-matrix printers at an auction for a dollar. Too bad there isn't a program of some sort for businesses/individuals to donate older computer equipment to people in need, especially kids in low-income situations. Sad to say 8 bit Apples have become a throwaway item. Great box to learn the basics of computers and machine language, but everyone wants a flashy GUI, gHz performance and (shudder!!!!) Windows. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Mon Mar 17 07:13:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:21 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration References: <005b01c2ec40$7a819550$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> <3E7585AA.2090001@cox.net> Message-ID: <3E75C8BD.A0D944D8@verizon.net> Yes, could not agree more! The original CT-1024 terminals were not that great. The one we had at the shop I worked in at the time displayed the lines on the screen with a slight vertical ripple effect. Also, the plastic was so thin that when you picked the terminal up it tended to give a little. I much preferred a ADM-3 or a Televideo 910. But who the cash for them back in 1976? I didn't! All in all, still a great project. Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > Excellent work! That's really pretty. > > -Bryan > > > > >This unit is now closer to "factory" condition then when it was assembled in > >1976 or 1977. All of the ICs are the correct part (7474 not a 74LS74 From wonko at 4amlunch.net Mon Mar 17 08:22:00 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: An organization (was: Re: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <3E7561E5.2060707@aurora.regenstrief.org>; from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org on Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 12:49:25AM -0500 References: <3E7561E5.2060707@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20030317091100.C19443@zill.net> On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 12:49:25AM -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > But the good news of the story (only slightly clouded by the > fraud allegations) is that Penske does tend to not rip you off > if you just talk with them. i've been renting Penske for years (won't use anyone else) and you don't need to claim you are a business. i never have. they start at $.30/mile, and are more than happy to let you pay that (for the un-informed) but have absolutely no problem dropping that price. i don't think i have ever paid more than $.18/mile in my life, and if you are going enough miles, you can get it down even lower (i think $.09 is the lowest i've gotten, but that was for thousands of miles) so, in a nutshell, the whole fraud thing is moot, since it makes no difference to penske if you are a business or not, it just matters if you know that the $.30/mile is not set in gold. ;) -brian From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Mar 17 09:02:00 2003 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 6&8 on a 25-pin. -Bob >Tried connecting pins 6 & 8 on a 9 pin and still no luck. > > >If I remember, try connecting pins 6&8 together and see if that helps. > > > >(we have a special adapter that does just that). > > > >-Bob bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From charlesmorris at direcway.com Mon Mar 17 09:03:14 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ASR33 fights In-Reply-To: <20030317062118.92041.42463.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030317062118.92041.42463.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:21:18 -0600, you wrote: >I'm currently fighting with an ASR33 trying to make it perform a carriage >return. Currently, the carriage is stuck all the way on the right side >and refuses to budge. I tried to find something inside that would release >it but I haven't located the magic tab. Go to www.pdp8.net (or the Highgate mirror site) and download the following: > Teletype > 328 ASR 33 Teletype Print Set (Wiring Diagram/Schematics) 19 pg 1971 > 240 ASR 33 Teletype Print Set (Wiring Diagram/Schematics) 36 pg > 121 Bulletin 11848 33 Page Printer Set (ASR, KSR and RO) Parts February 1971 > 114 Bulletin 310B Technical Manual 33 Teletypewriter Sets RO, KSR, ASR Volume 1 October 1971 > 118 Bulletin 310B Technical Manual 33 Teletypewriter Sets RO, KSR, ASR Volume 2 March 1971 > 327 LT33 ASR 33 Teletypewriter mods for PDP-8 1970 It's about 20Mb total. It will be invaluable when trying to figure out the strange and mysterious innards of an ASR33! Everything is clearly illustrated and explained. I recently converted my KSR33 (sitting in the barn for six years) into an ASR33 and have been wrestling it into submission gradually. The only things left to fix are binding of the paper in the line feed mechanism (which predated the conversion), and an occasional bit 5 sticking "set" (i.e. as though the SHIFT key were pressed). For now, look down below the carriage and find a little lever running parallel to the keyboard just to the left of center, which can be carefully tripped with a long screwdriver. Careful - that carriage has a strong spring and will come back fast! I have a spare reader cover if you're interested. -Charles From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 17 09:14:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting Message-ID: <77.c7b3936.2ba73fab@aol.com> In a message dated 3/17/2003 1:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, charlesleecourtney@yahoo.com writes: << I'm trying to locate the manufacturer or source for a device used to lift equipment into racks. This is a manually operated device (or electric?) used to lift disk drives, servers, etc. and place them in racks. They should be portable as I've seen HP CE's use them. >> www.globalindustrial.com From jwb at paravolve.net Mon Mar 17 09:27:01 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Making images of drives on a VAXserver 3100 Message-ID: <20030317102054.0743a591.jwb@paravolve.net> I have a VAXserver 3100 that I'd like to backup via images of it's 3 drives. Right now I have it netbooting NetBSD and I can do a dd if=/dev/sd0c of=sd0c.bak bs=8100, but I am unsure if this is the best way. Anyone have any better suggestions? The disks in question currently contain an install of OpenVMS 7.X -jwb [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Mar 17 09:36:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: EZDrive is working well. Thanks all : ^ ) On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 08:58 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > Some BIOSen will only address 1024 cylinders, even if they "see" > more. > OnTrack, Drive Rocket, EZDrive, any of the drive overlay programs will > get around that. > > -- > Doc Shipley (( And when thou hack'st her box, thou shalt > Austin, Texas )) lay that pipe with exceeding great vigour, > (( yea, even unto the screaming and clawing > doc@vaxen.net )) and biting. -- Cantrell From bernd at kopriva.de Mon Mar 17 10:01:00 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Documentation/Software needed for Yarc Boards Message-ID: <200303171600.h2HG0mu96945@huey.classiccmp.org> Some time ago i requested documentation and/or software for my yarc boards ... ... unfortunately, i made no real step forward until now ... The first board is a quad transputer board, according to a whitepaper, i got from Ram Meenakshisundaram, which identifies the board as the "Yarc ProTran". The board should run Inmos B004 software, but i had no success, maybe one of the numerous jumpers is placed wrong ... The second board is named Yarc sprinter, it contains an AMD 29000 processor ... i found a reference to MiniMon29K, but a request to AMD was not successful, they redirected me to Embedded Performance Inc, which support the AMD 29K family, but the request was not answered ... I tried to contact Trevor Marshall, but got no response too ... ... it would be nice to get those boards up and running, so any hint would be very helpful ! Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Tel: 07195 / 179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail : bernd@kopriva.de 71397 Leutenbach From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Mar 17 10:31:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting In-Reply-To: <77.c7b3936.2ba73fab@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030317110525.00a3a730@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> My mil spec packager once suggested a lifting device called a "duct lift" I'd never previously seen a picture of one, so I don't know if it's suitable to your requirements. There's a picture of one here ... http://library.wustl.edu/renovation/photos/02jun05_98w.jpg Looks like it wouldn't be too hard to transport. Seems they come in 650 to 750 lb. lifting capacities. I saw an equipment seller's auction price on one at $250 but it was an old web page Here was a variety of one on eBay ... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2514200197&category=25278 At 10:11 AM 3/17/03 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/17/2003 1:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, >charlesleecourtney@yahoo.com writes: > ><< > I'm trying to locate the manufacturer or source for a > device used to lift equipment into racks. This is a > manually operated device (or electric?) used to lift > disk drives, servers, etc. and place them in racks. > They should be portable as I've seen HP CE's use them. >> > >www.globalindustrial.com From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 17 11:00:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ASR33 fights Message-ID: Hi Charles. I tried to send this directly but your mail server claims that my IP address is listed in www.spamhous.org's database. Oh well. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:26:30 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Charles Subject: Re: ASR33 fights On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Charles wrote: > For now, look down below the carriage and find a little lever > running parallel to the keyboard just to the left of center, which > can be carefully tripped with a long screwdriver. Careful - that > carriage has a strong spring and will come back fast! > > I have a spare reader cover if you're interested. Hi Charles. Thanks for the info. I have the original manuals but just not here. I'll be getting them this week to help with this. I'll look for that release lever. As for the read cover, it's actually the small tab that holds it down. That broke off at the stem. It was part of a piece of very thin metal that had a spring effect. If you look at the piece of metal that the tab is connected to you'll see what I mean. The only thing I can think of to fix it is to either find a replacement (not very likely), glue a small piece of metal to the springy-thingy so I can affix the tab back onto it, or make a new one. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From quapla at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 17 11:03:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Seagate ST-125 References: <414DEEFC-5627-11D7-BAB6-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <3E75FEEF.CBC2E3AE@xs4all.nl> A small question, can a Seagate ST-125 be used as a replacement for a RD5x? Thanks, Ed -- From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 17 11:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Mar 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > So if the return character is not getting to the rails correctly then > firstly it won't punch properly and secondly, it won't be detected by the > approipriate lever in the function unit. I haven't be able to verify what character is being produced because the durn carriage is stuck on the right. Once I get the carriage returned then I can determine what's going on. > So let's get that missing bit back first. Are you running the machine in > LOCAL mode (i.e. from its own keyboard to the printer?). If so, the Yes, LOCAL mode. > problem could be in the transmitter side (contacts on the keyboard, for > example). Or it could be a problem in the RX unit (sticking lever). I > think it's safe to assume that the solenoid driver is not the problem > here (it's not going to mangle only one bit). While I can't say I examined it to the point of ruling this out, I didn't notice anything wrong with the levers. However, it is an obvious place to start. > Incidentally, the carriage is fed by the 'spacing mechanism' which drives > the left hand sprocket for the toothed belt. At the bottom of this > sprocket shaft, right against the casing, is the spacing ratchet with the > pawls to move it on one character, and to allow it to be released for a > carriage return. IIRC, _carefully_ frobbing levers in this area will > release the pawls and allow the carriage to return. I'll look into that. This is my primary concern as of now. > > Whoever designed the ASR33 must have sold their soul to the devil to make > > it all work. It's amazing how intricate and delicate everything is, and > > how damn kludgy as well. > > I find them rather beautiful... I agree, but I still can't believe this thing works and stays together as it does considering how delicate all the parts are and how delicately everything hangs in balance. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Mar 17 11:29:01 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: HM6116LP-3 References: Message-ID: <3E760524.1060302@Vishay.com> Kelsie, yes, the pages are scanned and waiting to be sent. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get them through to the original requestor: the recipient's mail server reported a full mailbox... Are you prepared to receive a ~750kB .ZIP file with half a dozen .JPGs inside? (I am afraid I was lying: not seven pages, only six.) I will not send the attachment to the list, of course. It would be removed anyway (for good reason). Regards, Andreas Kelsie McLarnin wrote: > You wrote to Patrick > " > there's a 1982 "Semiconductor Data Book Hitachi IC Memories" on my desk, and a > scanner in the next room. The book has seven pages about the HM6116LP-2, > HM6116LP-3, and HM6116LP-4, including a general decription, pinout, data > tables, signal waveforms, and various diagrams. > " > I am trying to fix a little PLC that uses the HM6116LP-3 > and I need a data sheet such as you describe. I would much appreciate the > pages you describe in your reply to Patrick above. > > Regards, > Rob > rmclarni@bcit.ca -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Mar 17 11:51:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting In-Reply-To: <77.c7b3936.2ba73fab@aol.com> References: <77.c7b3936.2ba73fab@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/17/2003 1:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, > charlesleecourtney@yahoo.com writes: > > << > I'm trying to locate the manufacturer or source for a > device used to lift equipment into racks. This is a > manually operated device (or electric?) used to lift > disk drives, servers, etc. and place them in racks. > They should be portable as I've seen HP CE's use them. >> > > www.globalindustrial.com > Hot Damn! I looked (mostly) all over for these; never thought to check the company Dave's provided. I actually bought most of the parts to modify a regular handtruck to do this, but haven't got a Round Tuit on that project yet. A bit pricey, the cheapest lift starts at $400, but if you've ever put a Kennedy 9100 four feet up in a rack (on it's slides) by yourself... these might be a good value. The category they're in is a bit counter-intuitive: look for them in "Carts / Casters / Trucks - Lift Trucks - Lift Truck Winch". Of course if you have lots of bux you can get a hydraulic one, but.... Cheers John From rick at holygrail.com Mon Mar 17 11:58:00 2003 From: rick at holygrail.com (Rick Boarman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Complete AS400 9406 system for sale Message-ID: <0CE748B0B142454CBBBC50DA8D9B8D3E3643@boarmaster.matrix6.com> I have the following AS400 system for sale. It was up and running prior to me rescuing it from a dead dot com auction. Please email me for more information. Rick Rack 1 Contents: - 9309-2 rack - Power Supply: 21F9008 - Case containing 26 slots: o 59X4819 FN2615 (Has 2 EIA I/O cards + Floppy Controller) o 86G8303 SCSI Controller o 85F9041 FC 6112 (RL) o 74F1455 o 85F8935 FC 6501 (RL) o 85F9107 Ethernet o 85F8909 6500 IOP o 16G7241 FC 2592 (RL) o 56F0269 o 17G2598 FC 2700 (RL) IO Regulator o 17G2598 FC 2700 (RL) IO Regulator o 21F9209 - RAID Array 9337 o 8 1g drives (55F9818) - Tape drive 9337 - Control panel 21F5769 Rack 2 Contents: - 9309-2 rack - Power Supply: 10F9298 - IO Card unit feature 5010/5030 03F8338 o 76X4669 FC 6019 (RL) o 46F5467 FC 6130 (RL) o 46F5467 FC 6130 (RL) o 46F5467 FC 6130 (RL) o 68F7321 FC 6134 (RL) o 26F5028 FC 6031 (RL) o 26F5028 FC 6031 (RL) o 08F5361 FC 6130(RL) o 59X4270 Token ring - RAID Array 9337 o 8 1g drives 55F9818 Lots of cables & parts Three manuals Several tapes From patrick at evocative.com Mon Mar 17 12:03:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Needed: F1 keycap for Wyse 50 Terminal Message-ID: If anyone has a spare "F1" keycap for a Wyse 50 terminal, or an entire keyboard with at least that cap in good condition, for sale/trade/gift, please contact me off-list. Thanks! Patrick at evocative dot com From rototype at linuxmail.org Mon Mar 17 12:12:00 2003 From: rototype at linuxmail.org (Tim Schomer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Elan E9C Programmer Message-ID: <20030317104326.28686.qmail@linuxmail.org> Hi, You posted the following.... >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Does anyone have any information as to where I might >locate a Manual for an old ELAN EPROM >programmer/copier? If anyone has any leads I would >appreciate it. > >Thanks >Kevin Hipp > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you had any replies from this? I know that Elan no longer produce, or even support the old programmer/copiers. I'm hopefully getting one similar in a few days, and I don't think mine's got a manual either. Did you get a manual? (electronic would be nice) Rototype -- ______________________________________________ http://www.linuxmail.org/ Now with e-mail forwarding for only US$5.95/yr Powered by Outblaze From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 17 12:12:38 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <022701c2e9f6$f24b4140$0100a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Dave Brown > Sent: 14 March 2003 06:57 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > I have some here-may even be multiple copies of some stuff- All > user manuals > though, no "real" tech refs. It's better than what I've got at the moment :) Having seen the installation manual that Ade's scanned in I've just *got* to get my best OPD out and start using it up here as my main phone.....now that we know it definitely does DTMF dialling. One will definitely be the main phone of the musuem when it opens. Any spare books would be great. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 17 12:13:08 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation (2) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030315132120.00b76d50@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 15 March 2003 13:25 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation (2) > > > Second (and second easiest) part done, the Advanced Operations Manual: > > http://classic-micros.com/iclopd/advancedops/index.html > Nice one! How long did that little bit o'scanning take? w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 17 12:16:16 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Latest acquisitions In-Reply-To: <3E6521B3.5080607@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: Mornin' folks, Courtesy of a nice chap in Ireland clearing out his shed I'm now the proud owner of: Grundy Newbrain AD Newbrain Disk Controller Newbrain Expansion Interface Newbrain Expansion Interface (x2) that looks like a disk controller but I haven't opened 'em up yet :) 3 PSUs but 2 have been robbed of parts. 4x Microbee II by Microworld. Unfortunately the Newbrain is toast (garbled message on the flourescent display and nothing on either the composite or RF outputs) but maybe with Tony's help I might be able ro resurrect it; I've also found someone who admits to being one of the technical troubleshooters of the 3 wire-wrapped prototypes, which may be handy. Said troubleshooter also worked on the Enterprise 64, so THAT might be handy too :) The Microbee was one of Australia's more popular micros, particularly with schools, before the Apple ][ stomped all over its market. It also sold well in Sweden, which is apparently where these units came from. Z80 based with 32K RAM and, surprisingly, a non-microsloth BASIC in ROM along with a word processor called WordBee. This model also apparently has limited graphics capabilities, but it wasn't until later that models featured colour, decent graphics and CP/M compatibility. In a pre-Amscrap fashion, the video, cassette AND power all came from one 5-pin DIN plug and a wiring harness that resembles a cat-o-nine-tails, according to the pic on the back of the one boxed unit I've got, and I don't have any, or PSUs. Shouldn't be too hard to find out what goes where though, and I've got feelers out on aus.* newsgroups to see if anyone's got spares. The hurriedly-assembled Newbrain page is already up and I'll do the Microbee one today, if anyone wants pix. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Mon Mar 17 12:16:50 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting In-Reply-To: <77.c7b3936.2ba73fab@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030317153921.54059.qmail@web20808.mail.yahoo.com> Bulls-eye! Exactly what I was looking for - thanks Dave. --- SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/17/2003 1:30:40 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > charlesleecourtney@yahoo.com writes: > > << > I'm trying to locate the manufacturer or source for > a > device used to lift equipment into racks. This is a > manually operated device (or electric?) used to > lift > disk drives, servers, etc. and place them in racks. > They should be portable as I've seen HP CE's use > them. >> > > www.globalindustrial.com From dlormand at aztecfreenet.org Mon Mar 17 12:17:18 2003 From: dlormand at aztecfreenet.org (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: <200303171655.h2HGtOLu007306@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> I salvaged a few old noname peecees this week, and out of some old 286es came some 4M expansion cards. Anybody want these? From dave at kaleidosoft.com Mon Mar 17 12:17:47 2003 From: dave at kaleidosoft.com (Dave Babcock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting In-Reply-To: <20030315175246.73152.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <005101c2eb04$09b74f00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20030315175246.73152.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3955.156.153.254.41.1047920607.squirrel@ssl.sonic.net> Lee, I just checked out lab (here at HP) and the motorized machine we have for that is made by Alum-a-Lift. Here's the contact information: Alum-a-Lift, Inc. 7909 Bankhead Hwy. Winston, CA 30187 (770) 489-0328 www.alumalift.com Hope that helps. DaveB > Hi all, > > I'm trying to locate the manufacturer or source for a > device used to lift equipment into racks. This is a > manually operated device (or electric?) used to lift > disk drives, servers, etc. and place them in racks. > They should be portable as I've seen HP CE's use them. > > Can anyone give me a pointer where I might find > information on this equipment, or even what its > called? I'd like to use this to stack and move heavier > equipment (HP7937s, RA80s, etc). > > Thanks! > > Lee Courtney From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 17 12:19:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 Message-ID: <200303171800.KAA12390@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Sun, 16 Mar 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > >> So if the return character is not getting to the rails correctly then >> firstly it won't punch properly and secondly, it won't be detected by the >> approipriate lever in the function unit. > >I haven't be able to verify what character is being produced because the >durn carriage is stuck on the right. Once I get the carriage returned >then I can determine what's going on. > Hi Sellam I find it is easier to track what is going on by disconnecting the power to the motor. I can then rotate, using the fan, to get it to cycle through an action. You still have to manually lock up the clutches or they will drag. You do this by squeezing the two pieces that hang out and catch on the release lever. Once you got them locked up, you can type a key and cycle things one step at a time. Dwight From emu at ecubics.com Mon Mar 17 12:19:29 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Making images of drives on a VAXserver 3100 References: <20030317102054.0743a591.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: <3E761161.2010801@ecubics.com> What's wrong with BACKUP ? James W. Brinkerhoff wrote: > I have a VAXserver 3100 that I'd like to backup via images of it's 3 drives. Right now I have it netbooting NetBSD and I can do a dd if=/dev/sd0c of=sd0c.bak bs=8100, but I am unsure if this is the best way. Anyone have any better suggestions? The disks in question currently contain an install of OpenVMS 7.X > > -jwb > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 17 13:13:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Seagate ST-125 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:59:27 +0100." <3E75FEEF.CBC2E3AE@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200303171842.SAA03956@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, The Wanderer said: > A small question, can a Seagate ST-125 be used as a replacement for a RD5x? > I'd like to know too... Some info I got on using 3rd-party disks says the following: "These are the "successes" all done on PDP-11's with the ZRQCH0 formatter: . . . (5) Seagate ST-125 (20 MB 3.5" HH): This one is basically a "no brainer" -- the drive has the same geometry as the RD-31, and will format as such." -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From acme at ao.net Mon Mar 17 13:25:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! Message-ID: <200303171922.h2HJMNEd006790@eola.ao.net> From: (null) Date: 03/17/2003 1:29 AM > Only if you try to get out of taxes. You don't have to register a > business if you don't want to incorporate it, but you still have to HUH??? I own and operate a small business in Orlando, and I can tell you I'd be dead in the water without a State Fictitious Name registration, as well as business licenses for Orange County and the City of Orlando. Even if you're running it from home, you have to have your papers in order or get fined out of existence . . . Later -- Glen 0/0 From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Mar 17 13:29:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation (2) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030315132120.00b76d50@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030317191816.00b9ee80@slave> At 10:52 17/03/2003, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > > Sent: 15 March 2003 13:25 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation (2) > > > > > > Second (and second easiest) part done, the Advanced Operations Manual: > > > > http://classic-micros.com/iclopd/advancedops/index.html > > > >Nice one! How long did that little bit o'scanning take? Not too long, really: Probably an hour to hour-and-a-half of slaving over the scanner (mostly setting up the contrast/brightness to try to get the things OCRable, which I gave up on in the end - more in a mo). About another 1/2hr of general tidying up (rotating all the odd pages, since they came out upside-down), and about another 1/2hr cobbling together & debugging the HTML page. As for the OCR, I was getting terrible results with CuneiForm '99 (an OCR package I actually purchased, damnit). I've now downloaded a thing called ImageDock, which does a far far better job. I'm currently OCRing the Handbook (i.e. main user manual), one section at a time. Which is taking ages, but mainly because I'm sorting the layout so it's pretty similar to the actual manual. Currently, have done section C1 (13 pages + coverette), will do section C2 tonight (17 pages), etc. I'm going to try to complete one section per day (excluding this w/e), which should mean it'll take about 3-4 weeks to complete. So, if anyone is considering CuneiForm as their OCR package - don't. ImageDock is much better. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jwb at paravolve.net Mon Mar 17 13:33:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (jwb@paravolve.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Making images of drives on a VAXserver 3100 In-Reply-To: <3E761161.2010801@ecubics.com> References: <20030317102054.0743a591.jwb@paravolve.net> <3E761161.2010801@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1047929430.3e762256ae8de@appsrv1.paravolve.net> Nothing really I suppose... I'm just more of a BSD person (VMS is a new challange) and this seemed like the easiest/quickest/safest way to snapshot the disks as they currently are. -jwb Quoting emanuel stiebler : > What's wrong with BACKUP ? > > James W. Brinkerhoff wrote: > > I have a VAXserver 3100 that I'd like to backup via images of it's 3 > drives. > > Right now I have it netbooting NetBSD and I can do a dd if=/dev/sd0c > of=sd0c.bak bs=8100, > > but I am unsure if this is the best way. > > Anyone have any better suggestions? > > The disks in question currently contain an install of OpenVMS 7.X > > > > -jwb > > > > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Mar 17 13:38:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: References: <022701c2e9f6$f24b4140$0100a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030317192403.00b869e8@slave> At 10:52 17/03/2003, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Dave Brown > > Sent: 14 March 2003 06:57 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > > I have some here-may even be multiple copies of some stuff- All > > user manuals > > though, no "real" tech refs. > >It's better than what I've got at the moment :) > >Having seen the installation manual that Ade's scanned in I've just *got* to >get my best OPD out and start using it up here as my main phone.....now that >we know it definitely does DTMF dialling. One will definitely be the main >phone of the musuem when it opens. I'm planning to use mine as my main 'phone too. I have, at hideous expense, acquired another one (sans monitor) which is apparently in GWO; it's a Tonto (as opposed to an OPD), so I just have to decide which main unit looks the marginally more attractive... Shame it can't do CLID though. Maybe I shall have to try to retrofit my Pace 56K modem into it, then bodge the ROMs to read the CLID.... Then add the TCP/IP stack that's recently been developed for the QL, adapt a browser, and presto - an internet-capable OPD! Lemme see, on current form, I should have finished that project by about 2019... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 17 14:05:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting References: <77.c7b3936.2ba73fab@aol.com> Message-ID: <007c01c2ecc0$07e02040$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> If you go to http://www.harborfreight.com and search "hydraulic" you will begin to see some neat things. I get the catalog and there are several tools of relevance here. Floor jacks, Engine lifts, scissor jacks (useful when you want to start your lift from down on the floor instead of something like 30"), etc. What I reccomend you do is order a catalog and do a visual browse. It's fun to do and cheap (free). They are the first place I'd go when I'm ready to tackle (and block) this problem. One quick example: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41109 Table lift: 13-5/8''H to 50-1/4''H Maximum load capacity: 770 lbs John A. no affiliation with seller From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 17 14:22:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Seagate ST-125 In-Reply-To: The Wanderer "Seagate ST-125" (Mar 17, 17:59) References: <414DEEFC-5627-11D7-BAB6-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> <3E75FEEF.CBC2E3AE@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10303172020.ZM20915@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 17, 17:59, The Wanderer wrote: > A small question, can a Seagate ST-125 be used as a replacement for a RD5x? Yes, it's the exact equivalent of an RD31. Only works on an RQDX3, though (not RQDX1 or RQDX2). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 17 14:23:05 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help In-Reply-To: Bob Brown "Re: RS/6000 Console Help" (Mar 17, 8:58) References: Message-ID: <10303172010.ZM20909@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 17, 8:58, Bob Brown wrote: > 6&8 on a 25-pin. 6 and 8 are DSR and DCD; linking those is not likely to make much difference. You're probably thinking of linking 6 to 20 (DSR and DTR) or even linking 6 and 8 to 20. Might also be worth linking 4 (RTS) to 5 (CTS). The equivalents on a PC-compatible 9-pin D-connector are linking 4 (DTR) to 6 (DSR) and 1 (DCD), and linking 7 (RTS) to 8 (CTS). Of course, if this is not a PC-compatible 9-pin (which is *not* a standard) then all bets are off. > >Tried connecting pins 6 & 8 on a 9 pin and still no luck. > > > > >If I remember, try connecting pins 6&8 together and see if that helps. > > > > > >(we have a special adapter that does just that). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ted at larsonland.com Mon Mar 17 14:36:46 2003 From: ted at larsonland.com (Ted Larson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting Message-ID: <0F38B46512C1D4118E5A00A0CC2426A005DC3A@nexus1> Another option is to rent one for the day. I have seriously contemplated renting one of these material lifts before....shouldn't be too expensive. http://www.unitedrentals.com/new/index.php/rental/General+Construction/Mater ial+Handling+Equipment/281?PHPSESSID=6ecb916a478e13600e9b940b7c87296a - Ted -----Original Message----- From: John Lawson [mailto:jpl15@panix.com] Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:48 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Equipment Lifting On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/17/2003 1:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, > charlesleecourtney@yahoo.com writes: > > << > I'm trying to locate the manufacturer or source for a > device used to lift equipment into racks. This is a > manually operated device (or electric?) used to lift > disk drives, servers, etc. and place them in racks. > They should be portable as I've seen HP CE's use them. >> > > www.globalindustrial.com > Hot Damn! I looked (mostly) all over for these; never thought to check the company Dave's provided. I actually bought most of the parts to modify a regular handtruck to do this, but haven't got a Round Tuit on that project yet. A bit pricey, the cheapest lift starts at $400, but if you've ever put a Kennedy 9100 four feet up in a rack (on it's slides) by yourself... these might be a good value. The category they're in is a bit counter-intuitive: look for them in "Carts / Casters / Trucks - Lift Trucks - Lift Truck Winch". Of course if you have lots of bux you can get a hydraulic one, but.... Cheers John From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Mon Mar 17 14:41:01 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5A9CD2FA-58B8-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? On Thursday, March 13, 2003, at 09:57 PM, David Betz wrote: > Has anyone heard from James Willing lately? I ordered something from > his garage sale but have been unable to reach him by email to confirm > that he received my payment. From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Mar 17 14:55:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy References: Message-ID: <013e01c2ecc7$09666df0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Keys" Cc: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 8:15 PM Subject: Re: Windows 1.0 Prices are Crazy > Didn't they come with older versions of Aldus Pagemaker? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Keys wrote: > > > This first one has end with 1.0 going for over $1000 and the second ends on > > the 18th and is at over $900. Glad I got mine here for under $3. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404079329&category=11229 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406355260&category=11229 The very first version of Windows (1.?) I saw was included WITH Aldus PageMaker and was set up to automatically run windows and start PageMaker. When the user exited PageMaker, Windows shut down. As we know now, this is easy to do (start windows running an app), but the point here is that PageMaker was the product sold - Windows was included as the run-time environment. I had never seen an advertisement for Windows at the time I saw PageMaker. Stuart Johnson From aek at spies.com Mon Mar 17 15:12:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: documation m1000 Message-ID: <200303172109.h2HL9DQO005730@spies.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2165479743 The seller has put about 4 of these up already. I bought one, the belts and rubber rollers are in good shape in the one that I got, although it's having some trouble picking cards. A second one is on its way for someone else. From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Mar 17 15:22:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Equipment Lifting In-Reply-To: <007c01c2ecc0$07e02040$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <77.c7b3936.2ba73fab@aol.com> <007c01c2ecc0$07e02040$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, John Allain wrote: > If you go to http://www.harborfreight.com and search > "hydraulic" you will begin to see some neat things. [snippage] > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41109 > Table lift: 13-5/8''H to 50-1/4''H ^^^^^^^ I preface my comments with the fact that I have a bunch of Harbor Frieght stuff here, and it's one of the stops on my usually-monthly Trip to the Big City (Reno, NV) for Serious Shopping. But to get heavy things safely into a rack (or racks), the table lifts HF have didn't thrill me because they are already 14" off the floor, and are hard to maneuver up to a rack with Stuff in it... the handtruck-like winch lift from the other company is what I have been looking for, and actually I bought a little cable winch and a handtruck from Harbor, with the idea of making an 'equipment racking lift' that would actually fit up to a standing rack and allow the device to be inserted into it in a controlled manner. The hydraulic table lifts are a bit too clumsy for this, I think. (YMMV) They *are* cheap, though.... Cheers John From kth at srv.net Mon Mar 17 15:29:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation (2) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030315132120.00b76d50@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030317191816.00b9ee80@slave> Message-ID: <3E7643F3.4020208@srv.net> Adrian Vickers wrote: >At 10:52 17/03/2003, you wrote: > > > >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>>Behalf Of Adrian Vickers >>>Sent: 15 March 2003 13:25 >>>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>>Subject: ICL OPD - Documentation (2) >>> >>> >>>Second (and second easiest) part done, the Advanced Operations Manual: >>> >>>http://classic-micros.com/iclopd/advancedops/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>Nice one! How long did that little bit o'scanning take? >> >> > >Not too long, really: Probably an hour to hour-and-a-half of slaving over >the scanner (mostly setting up the contrast/brightness to try to get the >things OCRable, which I gave up on in the end - more in a mo). About >another 1/2hr of general tidying up (rotating all the odd pages, since they >came out upside-down), and about another 1/2hr cobbling together & >debugging the HTML page. > >As for the OCR, I was getting terrible results with CuneiForm '99 (an OCR >package I actually purchased, damnit). I've now downloaded a thing called >ImageDock, which does a far far better job. I'm currently OCRing the >Handbook (i.e. main user manual), one section at a time. Which is taking >ages, but mainly because I'm sorting the layout so it's pretty similar to >the actual manual. > >Currently, have done section C1 (13 pages + coverette), will do section C2 >tonight (17 pages), etc. I'm going to try to complete one section per day >(excluding this w/e), which should mean it'll take about 3-4 weeks to complete. > >So, if anyone is considering CuneiForm as their OCR package - don't. >ImageDock is much better. > > Project Gutenberg seems to prefer "Abbeyy Fine Reader" for their OCR work, if you are willing to spend money on the software. From tponsford at theriver.com Mon Mar 17 17:06:01 2003 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Free M68K SBC boards. Message-ID: <3E763CFF.2090203@theriver.com> Hi All, I picked up a huge crate o' stuff at the local cactus U auction a few weeks ago. Among a lot of other stuff were several boxes of older computer boards One of the boxes contained about 15 or 20 boards, about 12x12", two fingers, that were either 68k processor boards, DV11, 512k Momory boards (yes, they say right on them...momory) Most were in static bags that labeled them as Toshiba TDF 500A, Other boards were 8" and 5" or floppy drive controller boards. A lot of the descriptions/info were handwtitten in Japanese. They all seem to be in very good condition, save one, which had the chips removed, and put in a seperate box. I did a quick google search for Toshiba TDF500A, but didn't turn up anything! Any information on them (besides telling me that they are 68k SBC) would be helpful. I plan on keeping a set. (although I'm a Qbus/Unibus guy myself) But the rest are free for the taking. I will ship if you pick up the shipping/packing charges. Cheers Tom From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 17 17:14:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Seagate ST-125 In-Reply-To: Stan Barr "Re: Seagate ST-125" (Mar 17, 18:42) References: <200303171842.SAA03956@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <10303172248.ZM21042@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 17, 18:42, Stan Barr wrote: > The Wanderer said: > > > A small question, can a Seagate ST-125 be used as a replacement for a RD5x? > I'd like to know too... > > Some info I got on using 3rd-party disks says the following: > > "These are the "successes" all done on PDP-11's with the > ZRQCH0 formatter: > . > . > . > (5) Seagate ST-125 (20 MB 3.5" HH): This one is basically a "no > brainer" -- the drive has the same geometry as the RD-31, > and will format as such." There are basically three ways to get an ST412-like disk to work on an RQDXx controller. The easiest is obviously to use a real (or exact equivalent to) RD5x or RD3x disk, and format it as such. A second way is to use ZRQCH? in the mode that lets you specify the type, and format a disk which is slightly bigger (more tracks and/or more heads), as if it were one of the supported types. That only works for an RQDX3 with late(ish) ROMs. A variation on this for an RQDX1 is to use really old ROMs and a disk that behaves sufficiently like an RD51 or RD52 (eg has the right number of cylinders). Not all disks work, and they may stop working if you substitute later ROMs (real RD51/52 disks are OK, the firware recognises them and updates the format). The reason is that the firmware in the RQDX1/2 recognises disk geometries by probing, by playing tricks with the disks. The earliest version of the firmware had only very simple tests, and could be fooled (I used to use a Rodime 3.5" drive on my RQDX1), but later firware has more tests (and six or eight disk types) and if it doesn't recognise the disk, it won't play. I once exchanged some email with the guy at DEC who wrote those routines so I have some what they do, but no details. The third method is to use ZRQCH? or ZRQCG? in the mode that asks all the relevant questions about geometry and disk type. This only works for RQDX3s, but if you can work out what all the RCTs, ZBNs and other TLAs mean, and know how to work out all the numbers required, you can format anything and call it RDanything. And later versions of DEC OSs will be perfectly happy. The problem is knowing how to work out the answers. I did it once, and Tim Shoppa (IIRC) has also done it, but as far as I know, the full information isn't published anywhere. If you want to try this, I can look out my notes about the TLAs and how to work out the type numbers, and look up the manuals to see how to get ZRQC?? into the right mode (I recall that different versions were slighly different, if you see what I mean). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dcrosby at atitest.com Mon Mar 17 17:24:01 2003 From: dcrosby at atitest.com (Dave Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: List of interesting stuff was RE: Time to share a source - W. J.Ford Surplus Message-ID: I would like to buy the HP-9121D drive. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 17 17:24:44 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030317192403.00b869e8@slave> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: 17 March 2003 19:27 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > Shame it can't do CLID though. Maybe I shall have to try to retrofit my > Pace 56K modem into it, then bodge the ROMs to read the CLID.... Then add > the TCP/IP stack that's recently been developed for the QL, adapt a > browser, and presto - an internet-capable OPD! Now THAT would be worth seeing. In fact I'd probably pay for it, but it would require that the OPD screen was on all the time, and that would reduce its life somewhat on account of burnage. Remember the OPD was designed so that incoming calls could be taken with the screen turned off; back then they were really expensive. > Lemme see, on current form, I should have finished that project by about > 2019... I know the feeling :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 17 17:25:14 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <004201c2ec57$f71edca0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 17 March 2003 07:37 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Jupiter Ace > > I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size > edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were > *apparently* used in some of the Sinclair machines (Spectrum and ZX-series > IIRC). Can't have been from what I remember; the original Speccy used a piezo 'speaker', and later ones fed the sound output through the RF line....none of my Sinclair machines have that sort of setup, *but* the likes of the Oric-1, Camputers Lynx etc all did. Even the Microbees that I'm currently looking at have that sort of speaker....not sure if it's 32ohm though. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 17 17:28:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Hacking my KTM2 (6507) Message-ID: <200303172324.PAA12527@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've been disassembling the code for the KTM2 keyboard. I see now how they generate the various sync signals. The 6507 uses address line A0 to A9. A10 to A12 can be used for various strobes. Jumping to these addresses with different values fro A10 to A12 cause no change in the code executed but effect the video. A8 is used as a ROM select and A9 is used for A8 in the ROM. This way, the code maps into the first two 256 byte blocks of the ROM but the addresses look like 1xxH and 3xxH. They chose 1xxH because they do no subroutines but use the TXS and RTS to execute strings of addresses ( a little like a Forth engine does ). Now, as I've been disassembling the code, I've found some funny looking code. It causes difficulty for my disassembler. Here is a chunk of what I found. It sure looks like someone was on something when they did it. I suspect that it was to adjust the execution times to be equal, regardless of the result but I thought I'd pass it on and someone could explain how it worked. F1E2 03E2 5001 BVC L014 ; 03E5 F1E4 03E4 2A ROL A F1E5 03E5 L014: ; 1 F1E5 03E5 3002 BMI L015 ; 03E9 F1E5 03E7 F0 DB F0 ; note this could have been ; F04C BEQ ... F1E8 03E8 L017: ; 1 F1E8 03E8 4CF00D JMP L021 ; 0DF0 ; You can see that my ; disassembler loses it here F1E9 03E9 L015: ; 1 F1E9 03E9 F00D BEQ L016 ; 03F8 F1EB 03EB 30FB BMI L017 ; 03E8 F1ED 03ED 4CF50D JMP L018 ; 0DF5 Anyway, it is a screwy piece of code?? The addresses at the front of the line are the ROM addresses. The next col is what the 6507 thinks it is addressing. You'll note that I'd dropped any high order bits above A9 since they don't effect flow, only the strobe lines( see L021 above really goes to 1F0H ). Dwight From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 17 17:30:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace References: Message-ID: <3E76590F.7060500@jetnet.ab.ca> Witchy wrote: > Can't have been from what I remember; the original Speccy used a piezo > 'speaker', and later ones fed the sound output through the RF line....none > of my Sinclair machines have that sort of setup, *but* the likes of the > Oric-1, Camputers Lynx etc all did. Even the Microbees that I'm currently > looking at have that sort of speaker....not sure if it's 32ohm though. What about getting a cheap 32 ohm headphone , and use the speaker off that? Ben. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Mar 17 17:47:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:22 2005 Subject: documation m1000 In-Reply-To: <200303172109.h2HL9DQO005730@spies.com> Message-ID: <6AA98770-58D2-11D7-9F7F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> > the belts and rubber rollers are in good shape > in the one that I got, although it's having some trouble > picking cards. The seller wouldn't happen to be from Florida, by any chance, would he? (yeah, I know, bad joke) Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Mar 17 17:55:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <5A9CD2FA-58B8-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: on 3/17/03 2:38 PM, David Betz at dbetz@xlisper.mv.com wrote: > I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had > trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering > items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write > off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? I don't know, but I sent off a $15 money order weeks ago for two of the books he listed for sale here on the list, and I haven't heard from him since. -- Owen Robertson From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 17 18:00:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <200303172356.PAA12543@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Witchy > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of Philip Pemberton >> Sent: 17 March 2003 07:37 >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Jupiter Ace >> >> I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size >> edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were >> *apparently* used in some of the Sinclair machines (Spectrum and ZX-series >> IIRC). > >Can't have been from what I remember; the original Speccy used a piezo >'speaker', and later ones fed the sound output through the RF line....none >of my Sinclair machines have that sort of setup, *but* the likes of the >Oric-1, Camputers Lynx etc all did. Even the Microbees that I'm currently >looking at have that sort of speaker....not sure if it's 32ohm though. > >cheers > Hi My Jupiter Ace has a small dynamic skeaker. I don't recall how the graphics was done. Dwight From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 17 18:26:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <200303171922.h2HJMNEd006790@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: > HUH??? I own and operate a small business in Orlando, and I can tell you I'd > be dead in the water without a State Fictitious Name registration, as well as > business licenses for Orange County and the City of Orlando. Even if you're > running it from home, you have to have your papers in order or get fined out > of existence . . . Incorporation and business laws vary state by state. In some states, they vary county by county. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 17 18:35:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <133.1c984c57.2ba26065@aol.com> from "WA8MFL@aol.com" at Mar 13, 3 05:29:57 pm Message-ID: > that. You also need to check on the controller board to see if it's set up > for hard-sectored disc or softsectored ones. There are several controller boards IIRC, and you can have 2 installed at the same time. Mu Z90 has the hard-sectored controller (using a USRT chip) connected to the internal drive and the double-density soft-sectored controller (using a WD179x chip) connected to the 2 external drives (all 5.25" units). I beleive there was an 8" drive system and a hard disk. > The hard sectored (10 sectors) are probably long gone from this world. I I still have one... Getting the disks is a problem. One day, when I've got nothing better to do, I am going to modify a junk 5.25" drive by mounting a punch/die in place of the index sensor and an indexing plate on the spindle. Then I can punch my own hard-sector holes. > still have mine and it occasionally gets the dust blown away. > For those who learned to use a good typewriter this is the best keyboard ever > installed on a PC. I thought it was a fairly standard design, similar to the ones on the VT100, early TRS-80, HP85, etc. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 17 18:35:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration In-Reply-To: <003001c2ec56$4955d660$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 17, 3 07:24:44 am Message-ID: > Michael Holley wrote: > [snip] > > Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages. > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm > Wow. I'm speechless. That is one amazing repair. I think it's high time for > me to smash my piggy-bank, raid my bank account and buy a nice soldering > station :-) Well, I should probably upgrade myself (I still use an old Weller TCP, which has a not particularly accurate thermostat), but I can assure you that even that is a lot nicer than most 'hobbyist grade' irons. To the extent that on the few occasions that I've tried to use a cheap, totally non-thermonstatically-controller iron recently (to save going back to get my Weller), I've had to give up and go and get said unit. > I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far too overpowered for You probably mean _UNDERPOWERED_ ! Power is not the same as temperature. For example, my Weller is actually a 45W unit, which sounds rediculously high (after all, many books recomend a 15W iron for PCB work). The problem with too high a power in a non-controlled iron is that it gets too hot. The problem with too little power (in any type of iron) is that it takes too long to heat the joint up, thus getting the rest of the PCB and components hot, causing damage. Try soldering (or worse, desoldering) an IC pin connected to an internal ground plane on a multi-layer PCB and you'll see what I mean -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 17 18:36:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration In-Reply-To: <003a01c2ec57$4e2124a0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 17, 3 07:32:03 am Message-ID: > > when I somehow plugged one of the Molex connectors in backwards, but > > a local computer club member was able to repair the damage for me at > > the time. > If only those kind of clubs still existed... Now, I've got some spare Indeed. The problem is that classic-computer/hardware hackers are not grouped close enough together for such a club to be really workable. You'd really have to meet face-to-face. Occassionally, we do hardware hacking at HPCC, and I almost always have a reasonable toolkit with me. I guess that's one of the last clubs where things do get dismantled and modified -- if I am wrong, and there's another one in the London (UK) area, then please enlighten me :-) > cash... I think it's high time to fix the Jupiter Ace. Properly. > Does anyone have a schematic for a 2114 RAM tester? I think I may have blew Put the supect one in the character generator area (and try it in both positions). The machine will start up with it there, but you'll only get half of each character recogniseable if it's defective... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 17 18:36:18 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: HP9830 keyboard Message-ID: I am currently restoring an HP9830. I guess this is a classic computer (for all it says 'calcualtor' on the nameplate) because it runs BASIC, and is 30 years old! Repairing the electronic faults has not been a problem (boards of TTL -- yum...). It now powers up, runs programs, drives the 9866 printer sitting on top of it, saves/loads to cassette, and so on. I am now left with the keyboard which has 5 problems : 1) The 'Stop' keycap is missing, although the switch is complete and undamaged 2) The keycaps need cleaning 3) The power-on lamp on the front of the machine is burnt-out 4) The mains switch is broken 5) The plastic keyboard bezel (surround) was badly broken by the postal 'service'. I have most of the broken bits of plastic OK, solutions ... 1) My junk box supplied a keycap that will fit (without modifications), although it's too short and has the wrong label. It'll do for the moment until I cna find soemthing better (unless anyone here is mad enough to have stripped a 9830 for parts -- I hope not!) 2) Trivial to put right! 3) This is a wire-ended bulb, running off the 5V line through a 22 ohm resistor. I can get a 5V 60mA bulb -- as I don't want it to be particularly bright this should be fine. Does anyone know what the original bulb was, though. 4) This is more of a problem. The original switch is a DPDT rocker (and all 6 terminals are used -- the NC contacts connect to a 1M resistor used to discharge the mains filter when the machine is turned off). It mount with 2 screws onto the keyboard chassis. There is very little space in that area too. I don't want to modify the machine more than I have to, and I can't find a suitable switch in any of the catalogues. HP used the same switch on many devices in the 1970s -- the 9866 printer has an identical switch, so do the I/O expander and disk drives for my 9825. Anybody know of a source (I can provide more details, like dimensions, etc, if anyone thinks they can help)?. If all else fails, I'll replace the switch on one of my 9885 drives (where there's a lot more room) and use the switch removed from that drive in the 9830. 5) Any suggestions as to how to repair this? The plastic will stick with dichloromethane, but of course it's not very strong. I have heard of a technique of soaking a piece of cloth in said solvent and sticking it to the back of the plastic to strengthen it. Anyone ever tried this and have any tips? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 17 18:36:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <004201c2ec57$f71edca0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 17, 3 07:36:46 am Message-ID: > Hi all, > I'm now starting on the Jupiter Ace again and I've got one really big > question that's been bugging me for a while. How the heck does the Jupiter > Ace display *graphics* on-screen? It looks like the chargen is text-only and It doesn't!. You've noticed the problem. All you can do is redefine the characters (acutally, it's worse than you think -- 1K bytes of RAM is 128 8*8 patterns -- the high bit of the character code is used to invert all the dots in the pattern IIRC). And 256 chracters is not enough for the entire screen. That's why you can't have an arbitrray image on the screen. There was a Jupiter Cantab untility to allow setting/reseting points, and one of the error messages was something like 'All characters used' :-) > I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size > edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were My obvious thought is that most cheap stereo headphones are 32 Ohm impdedance, and about that size. How about raiding a pair? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 17 18:36:57 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Trouble with ASR33 In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 17, 3 01:03:38 am Message-ID: > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > So if the return character is not getting to the rails correctly then > > firstly it won't punch properly and secondly, it won't be detected by the > > approipriate lever in the function unit. > > I haven't be able to verify what character is being produced because the > durn carriage is stuck on the right. Once I get the carriage returned > then I can determine what's going on. Sure you can. In fact the carriage won't help you much anyway because it onlly really decodes printing characters. Look at the selector rails. You'll see there are 8 of them (at least where they connect to the punch), and it's not hard, even without the manual, to work out which state is a 0 and which is a 1, and what the bit sequence is. Then you can see how they're set for each character. Another trick is to use the reader. Open the cover (trivial for you), hold down the tape sensor, and turn it on. Then hold down various combinations of the pecker pins and see what happens. If you can get a friend to help,, you could probably hold down the right combination for a CR -- and see if the carriage then returns. If it does, then you've got a keyboard problem, of course. > > > So let's get that missing bit back first. Are you running the machine in > > LOCAL mode (i.e. from its own keyboard to the printer?). If so, the > > Yes, LOCAL mode. > > > problem could be in the transmitter side (contacts on the keyboard, for > > example). Or it could be a problem in the RX unit (sticking lever). I > > think it's safe to assume that the solenoid driver is not the problem > > here (it's not going to mangle only one bit). > > While I can't say I examined it to the point of ruling this out, I didn't > notice anything wrong with the levers. However, it is an obvious place to > start. Actually, since you're working in local mode, I'd start with the keyboard and distributor contacts. The former, particularly, are known to give problems in old machines. -tony From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Mar 17 18:54:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003a01c2ece8$76be0e50$020010ac@k4jcw> There is only one TRUE soldering iron. If you're serious about soldering and surface mount, you want a Metcal. Don't get the SP-200 series, they're junk. Used Metcals can be had on eBay. Avoid the RFG-30 bases, those are antiques (and not in a good way). The MX 500-DS is ideal, as you can use the 2nd port for either another wand, or the Talon tweezers. The tips are cartridge style tips, and hold temperature regulation far better than a Weller or Hakko (I've used *lots* of different irons in product environments. Don't tell me how much you love your Weller or Hakko until you use a Metcal. Once you've had, you'd just as soon use a wood burner as go back). There are well over 100 different tip styles available, including specialty tips for removing QFP, SOICs, PLCCs, etc. The Talon tweezers are really nice for removing SMT resistors, caps, and with the right tips, SOICs are easily removed. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 18:49 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration > > > > Michael Holley wrote: > > [snip] > > > Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages. > > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm > > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm > > Wow. I'm speechless. That is one amazing repair. I think > it's high time for > > me to smash my piggy-bank, raid my bank account and buy a > nice soldering > > station :-) > > Well, I should probably upgrade myself (I still use an old > Weller TCP, > which has a not particularly accurate thermostat), but I can > assure you > that even that is a lot nicer than most 'hobbyist grade' irons. > > To the extent that on the few occasions that I've tried to > use a cheap, > totally non-thermonstatically-controller iron recently (to save going > back to get my Weller), I've had to give up and go and get said unit. > > > > I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far > too overpowered for > > You probably mean _UNDERPOWERED_ ! > > Power is not the same as temperature. For example, my Weller > is actually > a 45W unit, which sounds rediculously high (after all, many books > recomend a 15W iron for PCB work). The problem with too high > a power in a > non-controlled iron is that it gets too hot. The problem with > too little > power (in any type of iron) is that it takes too long to heat > the joint > up, thus getting the rest of the PCB and components hot, > causing damage. > > Try soldering (or worse, desoldering) an IC pin connected to > an internal > ground plane on a multi-layer PCB and you'll see what I mean > > -tony From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Mar 17 18:58:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! In-Reply-To: <200303171922.h2HJMNEd006790@eola.ao.net> References: <200303171922.h2HJMNEd006790@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <20030318012249.GE2611@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe acme@ao.net, from writings of Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 02:22:23PM -0500: > HUH??? I own and operate a small business in Orlando, and I can tell you I'd > be dead in the water without a State Fictitious Name registration, as well as > business licenses for Orange County and the City of Orlando. Even if you're > running it from home, you have to have your papers in order or get fined out > of existence . . . That is simply needless bureucracy intended to prevent people from earning a living, which aims to reduce competition against larger businesses. It appears quite ridiculous to spend one's time and money on needless bureaucracy if one is doing something such as computer consulting, or selling artwork that one creates, under one's own name, in which case no one needs to deal with any fictitious name hogwash. What's next, computer licenses? How many members of this group would comply with bureaucracy like that? Just something to think about. This reminds me of when I had to create a fictious corporate name, back when I was in college, just so I could purchase difficult to find semiconductors from sales 'droids at electronics distributors. They refused to sell me anything unless I was a business... so, I simply told them I was one and made up a name to go with it. By doing so, I got quite a few freebies as well (if big companies can get such freebies, why shouldn't electronics hobbyists?), and got into an electronics trade show too, where I got enough samples, product literature, databooks, etc. to fill up the car's entire front seat, floor area and a fairly large part of the back seat. ...and I got a free pit-beef sandwich as well at that trade show. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Mar 17 19:17:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" HP 5036A Monitor ROM References: Message-ID: <01ee01c2eceb$9d8a9550$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen S" To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:31 PM Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" HP 5036A Monitor ROM > By request, you can currently find source code for the HP 5036A Monitor ROM > here: > > http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/5036a/5036A.HTML > > This source code was generated by unassembling the 5036A ROM and then adding > the comments, labels, and symbols from the source listing in the manual. I > have not had time yet to proof read all of the comments that I manually > typed into the source from the manual, but I have verified that this source > reassebles into binary code that matches the ROM. > > Appendex E of the manual contains notes on running the demo programs in the > ROM {EHCO, ANDGT, CONV, WTM, SQRL, ORGAN, ROCT, STW, SNAKE}. When I have > more time I will try to add that info. > > -Glen > Glen, Thanks VERY much. I am surprised you got to this so quickly, and especially for verifying that the code reassembles into the ROM. I will look forward to the notes for the demo programs and will continue to look for a source for the manuals. Stuart Johnson From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Mar 17 19:37:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons Metcal Message-ID: I picked up a used MX-500S on eBay and later a DS1 to go with it. I still need to pick up a compressor some day before I can use the DS1. What I don't have are any manuals nor can I find any online anywhere and it's not clear if Metcal or distributors sell copies of the manuals. It would be nice to have instructions for the DS1 before I need to use it the first time. I don't think I have all of the necessary filters and such. -Glen > > There is only one TRUE soldering iron. If you're serious about soldering >and surface mount, you want a Metcal. Don't get the SP-200 series, they're >junk. Used Metcals can be had on eBay. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From tponsford at theriver.com Mon Mar 17 20:10:00 2003 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Free M68K SBC boards. References: <3E763CFF.2090203@theriver.com> Message-ID: <3E76680D.5040500@theriver.com> Ok, Thanks everybody for your overwhelming response, If you got a email back from me today or even tommorow, your one of the lucky ones. If not, cheer up. I got another box of different kind o' boards VME, i think!. So I'll give those out as soon as I fing out what they are. But don't email me until I figure out what they are. Thanks Tom Ponsford Tom Ponsford wrote: > Hi All, > > I picked up a huge crate o' stuff at the local cactus U auction > a few weeks ago. Among a lot of other stuff were several boxes of > older computer boards One of the boxes contained about 15 or 20 > boards, about 12x12", two fingers, that were either 68k processor boards, > DV11, 512k Momory boards (yes, they say right on them...momory) > Most were in static bags that labeled them as Toshiba TDF 500A, > Other boards were 8" and 5" or floppy drive controller boards. A lot > of the descriptions/info were handwtitten in Japanese. > > They all seem to be in very good condition, save one, which had the > chips removed, and put in a seperate box. > > I did a quick google search for Toshiba TDF500A, > but didn't turn up anything! > Any information on them (besides telling me that they are 68k SBC) > would be helpful. I plan on keeping a set. (although I'm a Qbus/Unibus > guy myself) But the rest are free for the taking. I will ship if you > pick up the shipping/packing charges. > > Cheers > > Tom From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Mar 17 20:24:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' Message-ID: <200303180221.VAA5684956@shell.TheWorld.com> >> I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had >> trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering >> items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write >> off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? > >I don't know, but I sent off a $15 money order weeks ago for two of the >books he listed for sale here on the list, and I haven't heard from him >since. I also sent off some money for a few books from the same list, and haven't received anything yet. I have also sent mail and have yet to receive a response. Megan From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 17 20:31:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <200303180221.VAA5684956@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: > I also sent off some money for a few books from the same list, and > haven't received anything yet. I have also sent mail and have yet > to receive a response. I suppose I should go on record as well (no, I am not trying to crucify Jim - he is a good guy, just going thru a rough patch right now). Jim, if you are monitoring the list somehow, we need to talk about that 6800 stuff... Don't everyone get the wrong idea - the deal never really fully formed... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Mon Mar 17 21:23:00 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Seagate ST-125 References: <200303171842.SAA03956@citadel.metropolis.local> <10303172248.ZM21042@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <006501c2ecfd$4b41ce00$b800a8c0@arctura> I would really like to know how to get the XXDP utilities into that "mode". I've been using the utilities with no manuals. I have discovered how to binary hack ZRQCH0 to format a Maxtor XT1140, but it was real difficult, and I have not reduced it to a cut-and-dried formula. I have a spreadsheet that helps, but you still have to know a lot about what is going on, and make some lucky guesses to cover what you don't know. My spreadsheet, such as it is, is located on this page: http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm. I figured out a lot about the TLAs by reading the back of the RQDX3 manual, and by reading the DEC patent that covers a similar technology. The patent ref is on my web page. If anyone can help me find a copy of the manual for ZRQCH0, I'd be most appreciative. I'd also be interested in adding any further info that anyone has gathered or generated regarding this topic to my web page. I use the "25" version of XXDP that is downloadable from sunsite or the RCS/RI site. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Turnbull" To: Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Seagate ST-125 > On Mar 17, 18:42, Stan Barr wrote: > > The Wanderer said: > > > > > A small question, can a Seagate ST-125 be used as a replacement for > a RD5x? > > > I'd like to know too... > > > > Some info I got on using 3rd-party disks says the following: > > > > "These are the "successes" all done on PDP-11's with the > > ZRQCH0 formatter: > > . > > . > > . > > (5) Seagate ST-125 (20 MB 3.5" HH): This one is basically a "no > > brainer" -- the drive has the same geometry as the RD-31, > > and will format as such." > > There are basically three ways to get an ST412-like disk to work on an > RQDXx controller. > > The easiest is obviously to use a real (or exact equivalent to) RD5x or > RD3x disk, and format it as such. > > A second way is to use ZRQCH? in the mode that lets you specify the > type, and format a disk which is slightly bigger (more tracks and/or > more heads), as if it were one of the supported types. That only works > for an RQDX3 with late(ish) ROMs. > > A variation on this for an RQDX1 is to use really old ROMs and a disk > that behaves sufficiently like an RD51 or RD52 (eg has the right number > of cylinders). Not all disks work, and they may stop working if you > substitute later ROMs (real RD51/52 disks are OK, the firware > recognises them and updates the format). The reason is that the > firmware in the RQDX1/2 recognises disk geometries by probing, by > playing tricks with the disks. The earliest version of the firmware > had only very simple tests, and could be fooled (I used to use a Rodime > 3.5" drive on my RQDX1), but later firware has more tests (and six or > eight disk types) and if it doesn't recognise the disk, it won't play. > I once exchanged some email with the guy at DEC who wrote those > routines so I have some what they do, but no details. > > The third method is to use ZRQCH? or ZRQCG? in the mode that asks all > the relevant questions about geometry and disk type. This only works > for RQDX3s, but if you can work out what all the RCTs, ZBNs and other > TLAs mean, and know how to work out all the numbers required, you can > format anything and call it RDanything. And later versions of DEC OSs > will be perfectly happy. The problem is knowing how to work out the > answers. I did it once, and Tim Shoppa (IIRC) has also done it, but as > far as I know, the full information isn't published anywhere. If you > want to try this, I can look out my notes about the TLAs and how to > work out the type numbers, and look up the manuals to see how to get > ZRQC?? into the right mode (I recall that different versions were > slighly different, if you see what I mean). > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Mar 17 23:15:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Workslate Message-ID: <38BB79AE-5900-11D7-8BA3-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> I have a workslate, workslate pen plotter, Several bits of software on the minicassettes the workslated uses. Who wants it? Whatcha got to trade? Anybody got a Poly 88 5 board working S100 bus computer? Atari Portfolio? Any HP handheld (hp 35, hp 67, hp 97, hp41, hp 71, hp 75) just because it's not on the list doesn't mean I am not interested in it. Wanna trade? From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Mar 17 23:37:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Workslate In-Reply-To: <38BB79AE-5900-11D7-8BA3-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030318002858.00a399c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Ron, > Any HP handheld (hp 35, hp 67, hp 97, hp41, hp 71, hp 75) > just because it's not on the list doesn't mean I am not interested in it. > Wanna trade? I've got a small pile of HP100LX and 200LX handhelds available to trade. They belong to a friend of mine, and I have to pay him for them if I let them go, but they are available. I'd be mostly interested in certain models of VME boards, but will always consider other unusual interfaces. Best Regards At 09:12 PM 3/17/03 -0800, you wrote: >I have a workslate, workslate pen plotter, Several bits of software on >the minicassettes the workslated uses. > >Who wants it? > >Whatcha got to trade? > >Anybody got a Poly 88 5 board working S100 bus computer? > >Atari Portfolio? > >Any HP handheld (hp 35, hp 67, hp 97, hp41, hp 71, hp 75) > >just because it's not on the list doesn't mean I am not interested in it. > >Wanna trade? From ejchapel at attbi.com Mon Mar 17 23:55:00 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Console Help In-Reply-To: <20030318053700.4854.64176.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030617215406.00b190f0@mail.attbi.com> >re: RS/6000 Console Help Pinout info can be found here: http://www.mort.level5.net/johnr/howto/aixhow.htm#hardware1 Hope this helps... From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 18 01:03:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace References: <200303172356.PAA12543@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <001b01c2ed1c$57eb49a0$0100000a@milkyway> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > My Jupiter Ace has a small dynamic skeaker. I don't > recall how the graphics was done. Mine used a 1" diameter circular speaker with a transparent Mylar (?) cone. $DEITY knows what its impedance was, the wires going to the cone snapped off while I was desoldering it... My schematic lists the speaker as a 220-ohm speaker. Obviously I've read the label off the wrong part... Does anyone know where I could get a 220-ohm speaker? Grant Searle (http://www.home-micros.freeserve.co.uk/JupiterAce/JupiterAce.html) says he got his from an old ZX Spectrum... If it would help, I could put the speaker on my PC's scanner and upload a 100-or-so DPI picture of it to my website... Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 18 01:07:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace References: Message-ID: <002101c2ed1c$e70496a0$0100000a@milkyway> Tony Duell wrote: >> I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size >> edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers >> were > My obvious thought is that most cheap stereo headphones are 32 Ohm > impdedance, and about that size. How about raiding a pair? See my other message - I got the impedance wrong. The Ace used a 220-ohm 1" diameter speaker... Again, unobtainium. Farnell have got 8R and 64R speakers, but they're *huge*. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Mar 18 01:09:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030317192403.00b869e8@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030318070207.01aef150@slave> At 20:53 17/03/2003, you wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > > Sent: 17 March 2003 19:27 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto > > > > Shame it can't do CLID though. Maybe I shall have to try to retrofit my > > Pace 56K modem into it, then bodge the ROMs to read the CLID.... Then add > > the TCP/IP stack that's recently been developed for the QL, adapt a > > browser, and presto - an internet-capable OPD! > >Now THAT would be worth seeing. In fact I'd probably pay for it, but it >would require that the OPD screen was on all the time, and that would reduce >its life somewhat on account of burnage. Not really - the OPD screen blanks after 10 mins of inactivity anyway, and switches on again for an incoming call, if you pick the handset up or press a key. >Remember the OPD was designed so >that incoming calls could be taken with the screen turned off; back then >they were really expensive. Aye, that would stop the CLID from being useful... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 18 01:38:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration References: Message-ID: <006501c2ed21$5739baa0$0100000a@milkyway> Tony Duell wrote: > Well, I should probably upgrade myself (I still use an old Weller TCP, > which has a not particularly accurate thermostat), but I can assure > you > that even that is a lot nicer than most 'hobbyist grade' irons. Hmm... The only Weller soldering iron I've ever used was a 100W soldering gun. And that thing was crap with a capital C. > To the extent that on the few occasions that I've tried to use a > cheap, totally non-thermonstatically-controller iron recently (to > save going > back to get my Weller), I've had to give up and go and get said unit. Hmm... I've always been a fan of the Antex irons. They make an iron known as the "TCS" - it's basically an XS with a thermostat. Then there's the full-blown Soldering Stations - the yellow one (without digital readout) and the black ESD-safe one (with a digital readout). They should both be listed under "Products" at www.antex.co.uk. The TCS230 is a 50W temperature controlled iron, priced up at ?45. The next one up is a soldering station at ?112... >> I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far too >> overpowered for > You probably mean _UNDERPOWERED_ ! It certainly seems to get very hot, but the temperature plummets when it touches a joint on a PCB... > Power is not the same as temperature. For example, my Weller is > actually > a 45W unit, which sounds rediculously high (after all, many books > recomend a 15W iron for PCB work). Right.... > The problem with too high a power > in a non-controlled iron is that it gets too hot. The problem with > too little power (in any type of iron) is that it takes too long to > heat the joint > up, thus getting the rest of the PCB and components hot, causing > damage. OK, then. Time to smash the piggy-bank again :-P > Try soldering (or worse, desoldering) an IC pin connected to an > internal ground plane on a multi-layer PCB and you'll see what I mean Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. That's why I get to rebuild 100-or-so through-holes on the Ace - the soldering iron soldered the THP to the IC's pin and then when I pulled the IC out, it ripped up the THP... Time to get the wirewrap wire out again... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Mar 18 01:41:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <001b01c2ed1c$57eb49a0$0100000a@milkyway> References: <200303172356.PAA12543@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030318023614.00a39ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Phil, I don't know if the impedance would be correct, or if the sound quality would be adequate, but one source of unusual speakers is to pull them off old modems. I've collected a few over the course of time. Best Regards At 07:02 AM 3/18/03 +0000, you wrote: >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > My Jupiter Ace has a small dynamic skeaker. I don't > > recall how the graphics was done. >Mine used a 1" diameter circular speaker with a transparent Mylar (?) cone. >$DEITY knows what its impedance was, the wires going to the cone snapped off >while I was desoldering it... My schematic lists the speaker as a 220-ohm >speaker. Obviously I've read the label off the wrong part... >Does anyone know where I could get a 220-ohm speaker? Grant Searle >(http://www.home-micros.freeserve.co.uk/JupiterAce/JupiterAce.html) says he >got his from an old ZX Spectrum... >If it would help, I could put the speaker on my PC's scanner and upload a >100-or-so DPI picture of it to my website... > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Mar 18 03:06:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <200303180221.VAA5684956@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <003801c2ed2d$41dc40e0$b83bcd18@D73KSM11> > >> I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had > >> trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering > >> items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or > shall I write > >> off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? > > > >I don't know, but I sent off a $15 money order weeks ago for > two of the > >books he listed for sale here on the list, and I haven't > heard from him > >since. > > I also sent off some money for a few books from the same > list, and haven't received anything yet. I have also sent > mail and have yet to receive a response. > > Megan > You might try reaching him at his bowling alley. http://www.yatescenterbowl.com/ E-mail: bowling@yatescenterbowl.com Phone: 620-625-2225 Fax: 620-625-2222 From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Tue Mar 18 05:14:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: HM6116LP-3 Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF35F@OHM1003A> Andreas, The datasheet is available on the web anyway here: http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/gottlieb/technical/datasheets/hm6116_SRAM_data sheet.pdf Good luck! paul -----Original Message----- From: Andreas Freiherr [mailto:Andreas.Freiherr@Vishay.com] Sent: 17 March 2003 17:26 To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HM6116LP-3 Kelsie, yes, the pages are scanned and waiting to be sent. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get them through to the original requestor: the recipient's mail server reported a full mailbox... Are you prepared to receive a ~750kB .ZIP file with half a dozen .JPGs inside? (I am afraid I was lying: not seven pages, only six.) I will not send the attachment to the list, of course. It would be removed anyway (for good reason). Regards, Andreas Kelsie McLarnin wrote: > You wrote to Patrick > " > there's a 1982 "Semiconductor Data Book Hitachi IC Memories" on my desk, and a > scanner in the next room. The book has seven pages about the HM6116LP-2, > HM6116LP-3, and HM6116LP-4, including a general decription, pinout, data > tables, signal waveforms, and various diagrams. > " > I am trying to fix a little PLC that uses the HM6116LP-3 > and I need a data sheet such as you describe. I would much appreciate the > pages you describe in your reply to Patrick above. > > Regards, > Rob > rmclarni@bcit.ca -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From cb at mythtech.net Tue Mar 18 08:35:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! Message-ID: >This reminds me of when I had to create a fictious corporate name, >back when I was in college, just so I could purchase difficult to find >semiconductors from sales 'droids at electronics distributors. They >refused to sell me anything unless I was a business... so, I simply >told them I was one and made up a name to go with it. By doing so, I >got quite a few freebies as well (if big companies can get such >freebies, why shouldn't electronics hobbyists?), and got into an >electronics trade show too, where I got enough samples, product >literature, databooks, etc. to fill up the car's entire front seat, >floor area and a fairly large part of the back seat. ...and I got a >free pit-beef sandwich as well at that trade show. :-) That is EXACTLY how my "company" got started. I wanted to buy some parts from someone that only sold to businesses. So I made up a company name (Myth Technologies... because the company itself was a myth), printed some business cards in HS Graphic Arts class, some letterhead on a laser printer and bought my parts. I later used the business cards to start getting extra stuff at computer trade shows... and eventually when I did start doing part time consulting... it was just natural to keep using the same name. (Today I actually have to declare the company on my taxes) -chris From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 18 08:55:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: new finds Message-ID: <009601c2ed5d$f8defd20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Why do I keep getting old PC's donated to me? *sigh* Just received an epson equity I, if anyone wants it. Also, didn't someone want the Leading Edge 500AT that I got a while back? Jay West From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Mar 18 11:04:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace References: <200303172356.PAA12543@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030318023614.00a39ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <001701c2ed70$5dfd5a00$0100000a@milkyway> Mail List wrote: > I don't know if the impedance would be correct, or if the sound > quality would be adequate, but one source of unusual speakers > is to pull them off old modems. I've collected a few over the course > of time. That's interesting - anyone got a spare modem (dead or alive as long as the speaker is intact) or am I going to have to wait for the Ripon and DRS Hamfest in April? I also need a component layout for the Ace - can someone with an Ace and a digital camera please remove the large metal heatsink from their Ace and send me a close-up picture of the mainboard, especially the area directly underneath the main RAMs (near the two ROMs). Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From steven_nikkel at ertyu.org Tue Mar 18 11:24:00 2003 From: steven_nikkel at ertyu.org (Steven Nikkel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: RS/600 Console Help Message-ID: Thanks for all the pinouts, I tried them all and a couple more variations and still no luck. I'm not familiar with RS/6000 systems, perhaps I should not be expecting a console to appear because of the c20 error. >Pinout info can be found here: >http://www.mort.level5.net/johnr/howto/aixhow.htm#hardware1 > >Hope this helps... From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 18 12:07:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <003801c2ed2d$41dc40e0$b83bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <003801c2ed2d$41dc40e0$b83bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <20030318100104.L31645@agora.rdrop.com> On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > You might try reaching him at his bowling alley. > > http://www.yatescenterbowl.com/ > > E-mail: bowling@yatescenterbowl.com > Phone: 620-625-2225 > Fax: 620-625-2222 ...just so yet another round of 'what a bum' messages don't start, those phone numbers won't work. (hazards of lack of $$ for the local phone co.) The email does work tho... However, for those desperate to yell at me the current number is 620-924-1305 As noted in a previous posting, updating web sites is a b!#@$ on a limited connection. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 18 12:19:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <5A9CD2FA-58B8-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> References: <5A9CD2FA-58B8-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <20030318094323.A31645@agora.rdrop.com> (sent intentionally to the list...) On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, David Betz wrote: > I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had > trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering > items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write > off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? ...or just read the 'fine print' (details rather than size) more carefully... (attempt at humour) item 1: all of the books that have been paid for have shipped. ('spose that would be the important one) item 2: as I've noted frequently of late, I no longer have a 'regular' connection to the net, and so my access is increasingly sporatic. Add to that, trying to sort thru (over 10k as of this writing) messages in 'pine' on a telnet connection leaves something to be desired when it come to organizing. also makes it near impossible to update the web site... item 3: I am behind on shipping some other items. As the nearest UPS/FedEx drop off is 30 miles up the road, I don't get there as often as I should. item 4: for those only now joining the saga, (another attempt at humour) when last we left our protaganists (sp?) they had abandoned the high-tech urban life to seek simplicity in the rural areas of Kansas. Read that: do it all yourself. No 'EZ Mail' or 'MailBox Plus' just down the street to handle shipping. So it takes longer... Yes, as much my fault as any but that's life these days... SO... I guess if you (individually or collectively) would rather, I can just fade silently into the background noise and not bother anyone anymore... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Mar 18 12:58:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: <5A9CD2FA-58B8-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> References: <5A9CD2FA-58B8-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <20030318192157.GG2611@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe David Betz, from writings of Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 03:38:04PM -0500: > I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had > trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering > items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write > off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? Firstly, I think that it's quite safe to say that he's not going to cheat you. There's probably some sort of temporary communications problem, etc. He's been on this list for a long time and has been very helpful to list members. I've purchased items from him, was very satisfied with the transaction, and have never heard anyone else complaining. Don't worry, there's surely no need to "write off" your payment to him. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 18 14:57:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Seagate ST-125 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:20:25 GMT." <10303172020.ZM20915@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200303172101.VAA06279@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Peter Turnbull said: > On Mar 17, 17:59, The Wanderer wrote: > > A small question, can a Seagate ST-125 be used as a replacement for a > RD5x? > > Yes, it's the exact equivalent of an RD31. Only works on an RQDX3, > though (not RQDX1 or RQDX2). D*mn! :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Mar 18 16:31:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <200303171655.h2HGtOLu007306@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> Message-ID: <000b01c2ed9d$f8407f20$3701a8c0@benchbox> I could sure use some. Are they the nine-chip sort? Regards, Jef -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of DAVID L. ORMAND Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:55 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 4M expanded memory cards I salvaged a few old noname peecees this week, and out of some old 286es came some 4M expansion cards. Anybody want these? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 18 16:40:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: <003a01c2ece8$76be0e50$020010ac@k4jcw> from "J.C.Wren" at Mar 17, 3 07:51:07 pm Message-ID: > There is only one TRUE soldering iron. If you're serious about soldering > and surface mount, you want a Metcal. Don't get the SP-200 series, they're That's why I said I should probably upgrade sometime... > product environments. Don't tell me how much you love your Weller or Hakko > until you use a Metcal. Once you've had, you'd just as soon use a wood I will say one thing. For classic computer repairs (0.1" pin-through hole, 0.05" SMD), a Weller TCP is perfectly useable. Not the best, but useable. I can't remember the last time I lifted a pad or ripped out a through-hole-plating 'tube'. The hobbyist-grade irons are not useable. They will do a lot of damage to PCBs! -tony From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 18 16:59:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030318225635.24056.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > The hobbyist-grade irons are not useable. They will do a lot of damage to > PCBs! No kidding. My Cosmac Elf and my TVT-6 look like hell because a) I was just a kid when I assembled them, and b) all I had was a Rat-Shack cheap-ass soldering iron. Once I got a job at a place that did manufacture/rework, I upgraded to a Weller (the very same ones I have now ;-) I've replaced one heating element and one thermistor (different innards, or I might have combined the two into one). Got a problem now where I have to make sure that the iron really is plugged into the base - the plastic ring is so worn that it doesn't hold the cable tightly. I used Metcals at Lucent. Verrrry Nice. I would love to find one with a box of SMT tips for less than a housepayment. -ethan From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 18 17:50:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: <20030318225635.24056.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030318180156.02a8cdd8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: [snip] >I used Metcals at Lucent. Verrrry Nice. I would love to find one with >a box of SMT tips for less than a housepayment. Can they be had with a full set of SMT tips *for* a house payment? If so, I'd consider it...Some of those tips are $60+ USD each... doesn't take many where just the tips would be a house payment for me, and the cheapest unit I found that looked half-way decent (with 1 tip) was around $400USD. I can't afford four digits... :-( At dalbani.com (out of Miami, FL, USA) they have *low-cost* stuff... some of it is complete and utter crap, but sometimes it's a decent deal for hobbyist stuff. For the store (we don't do a lot of soldering nowadays) we got a digital temperature-controlled soldering iron with 6 tips for under $90. It actually works pretty well, for the occasional solder-job... If I soldered on a daily basis, I'd get *quality* but for the once-a-month deal... I don't remember if they had SMT stuff, tho. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 18 18:17:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Documentation/Software needed for Yarc Boards In-Reply-To: <200303171600.h2HG0mu96945@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030318152403.02672e30@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 05:02 PM 3/17/03 +0100, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >Some time ago i requested documentation and/or software for my yarc boards ... >... unfortunately, i made no real step forward until now ... These boards were IIRC used in print shops as high speed raster generation (from images or postscript files), so I am betting the best chance on software is going to be via some printer support area (where ever it is that printer guys hang out and ask questions of each other). Doing anything other than raster generation with them I suspect will be a challenge. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Mar 18 19:06:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: <20030318225635.24056.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030318195833.05a26ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> I've done some pretty fine soldering work with my Ungar ( replaceable elements and tips). Used a jewelers file to file the tip down to a very fine point, and have used it to soldered J-leg chips onto surface mount pads with with excellent results. Best Regards At 02:56 PM 3/18/03 -0800, you wrote: >--- Tony Duell wrote: > > The hobbyist-grade irons are not useable. They will do a lot of damage to > > PCBs! > >No kidding. My Cosmac Elf and my TVT-6 look like hell because a) I was >just a kid when I assembled them, and b) all I had was a Rat-Shack >cheap-ass soldering iron. > >Once I got a job at a place that did manufacture/rework, I upgraded to >a Weller (the very same ones I have now ;-) I've replaced one heating >element and one thermistor (different innards, or I might have combined >the two into one). Got a problem now where I have to make sure that >the iron really is plugged into the base - the plastic ring is so worn >that it doesn't hold the cable tightly. > >I used Metcals at Lucent. Verrrry Nice. I would love to find one with >a box of SMT tips for less than a housepayment. > >-ethan From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Mar 18 19:10:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:23 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <000b01c2ed9d$f8407f20$3701a8c0@benchbox> References: <200303171655.h2HGtOLu007306@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030318200536.05a27ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> I had a bunch I sent to Zane. He just needed docs, and I sent him docs, several cards, and bags of chips too. Maybe he never used them all. Best Regards At 05:30 PM 3/18/03 -0500, you wrote: >I could sure use some. Are they the nine-chip sort? > >Regards, > >Jef > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of DAVID L. ORMAND >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:55 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: 4M expanded memory cards > >I salvaged a few old noname peecees this week, and out of some old >286es came some 4M expansion cards. Anybody want these? From musicman at satcom.whit.org Tue Mar 18 19:22:01 2003 From: musicman at satcom.whit.org (Musicman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds In-Reply-To: <20030318180001.9060.26315.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Wow! You are complaining about receiving 'donations'? I'd love to have a PDP-11 or an old VAX or even old Commodore equip. donated to me! Would make a great project and display at work in our data center! dww -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of cctech-request@classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:00 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #425 - 17 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Jupiter Ace (ben franchuk) 2. Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' (Owen Robertson) 3. HP9830 keyboard (Tony Duell) 4. RE: Jupiter Ace (Dwight K. Elvey) 5. Re: Penske is our friend! (William Donzelli) 6. Re: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? (Tony Duell) 7. Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration (Tony Duell) 8. Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration (Tony Duell) 9. Re: Jupiter Ace (Tony Duell) 10. Re: Trouble with ASR33 (Tony Duell) 11. Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) (J.C.Wren) 12. Re: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" HP 5036A Monitor ROM (Stuart Johnson) 13. Re: Soldering Irons Metcal (Glen S) 14. Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' (Megan) 15. Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' (William Donzelli) 16. Workslate (Ron Hudson) 17. new finds (Jay West) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:23:59 -0700 From: ben franchuk To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Witchy wrote: > Can't have been from what I remember; the original Speccy used a piezo > 'speaker', and later ones fed the sound output through the RF line....none > of my Sinclair machines have that sort of setup, *but* the likes of the > Oric-1, Camputers Lynx etc all did. Even the Microbees that I'm currently > looking at have that sort of speaker....not sure if it's 32ohm though. What about getting a cheap 32 ohm headphone , and use the speaker off that? Ben. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:52:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' From: Owen Robertson To: Classic Computer Mailing List Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org on 3/17/03 2:38 PM, David Betz at dbetz@xlisper.mv.com wrote: > I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had > trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering > items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write > off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? I don't know, but I sent off a $15 money order weeks ago for two of the books he listed for sale here on the list, and I haven't heard from him since. -- Owen Robertson --__--__-- Message: 3 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: HP9830 keyboard To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:20:01 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I am currently restoring an HP9830. I guess this is a classic computer (for all it says 'calcualtor' on the nameplate) because it runs BASIC, and is 30 years old! Repairing the electronic faults has not been a problem (boards of TTL -- yum...). It now powers up, runs programs, drives the 9866 printer sitting on top of it, saves/loads to cassette, and so on. I am now left with the keyboard which has 5 problems : 1) The 'Stop' keycap is missing, although the switch is complete and undamaged 2) The keycaps need cleaning 3) The power-on lamp on the front of the machine is burnt-out 4) The mains switch is broken 5) The plastic keyboard bezel (surround) was badly broken by the postal 'service'. I have most of the broken bits of plastic OK, solutions ... 1) My junk box supplied a keycap that will fit (without modifications), although it's too short and has the wrong label. It'll do for the moment until I cna find soemthing better (unless anyone here is mad enough to have stripped a 9830 for parts -- I hope not!) 2) Trivial to put right! 3) This is a wire-ended bulb, running off the 5V line through a 22 ohm resistor. I can get a 5V 60mA bulb -- as I don't want it to be particularly bright this should be fine. Does anyone know what the original bulb was, though. 4) This is more of a problem. The original switch is a DPDT rocker (and all 6 terminals are used -- the NC contacts connect to a 1M resistor used to discharge the mains filter when the machine is turned off). It mount with 2 screws onto the keyboard chassis. There is very little space in that area too. I don't want to modify the machine more than I have to, and I can't find a suitable switch in any of the catalogues. HP used the same switch on many devices in the 1970s -- the 9866 printer has an identical switch, so do the I/O expander and disk drives for my 9825. Anybody know of a source (I can provide more details, like dimensions, etc, if anyone thinks they can help)?. If all else fails, I'll replace the switch on one of my 9885 drives (where there's a lot more room) and use the switch removed from that drive in the 9830. 5) Any suggestions as to how to repair this? The plastic will stick with dichloromethane, but of course it's not very strong. I have heard of a technique of soaking a piece of cloth in said solvent and sticking it to the back of the plastic to strengthen it. Anyone ever tried this and have any tips? -tony --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:56:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Dwight K. Elvey" Subject: RE: Jupiter Ace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >From: Witchy > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of Philip Pemberton >> Sent: 17 March 2003 07:37 >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Jupiter Ace >> >> I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size >> edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were >> *apparently* used in some of the Sinclair machines (Spectrum and ZX-series >> IIRC). > >Can't have been from what I remember; the original Speccy used a piezo >'speaker', and later ones fed the sound output through the RF line....none >of my Sinclair machines have that sort of setup, *but* the likes of the >Oric-1, Camputers Lynx etc all did. Even the Microbees that I'm currently >looking at have that sort of speaker....not sure if it's 32ohm though. > >cheers > Hi My Jupiter Ace has a small dynamic skeaker. I don't recall how the graphics was done. Dwight --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:22:52 -0500 (EST) From: William Donzelli To: cctalk@classiccmp.org cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Penske is our friend! Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > HUH??? I own and operate a small business in Orlando, and I can tell you I'd > be dead in the water without a State Fictitious Name registration, as well as > business licenses for Orange County and the City of Orlando. Even if you're > running it from home, you have to have your papers in order or get fined out > of existence . . . Incorporation and business laws vary state by state. In some states, they vary county by county. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:41:10 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > that. You also need to check on the controller board to see if it's set up > for hard-sectored disc or softsectored ones. There are several controller boards IIRC, and you can have 2 installed at the same time. Mu Z90 has the hard-sectored controller (using a USRT chip) connected to the internal drive and the double-density soft-sectored controller (using a WD179x chip) connected to the 2 external drives (all 5.25" units). I beleive there was an 8" drive system and a hard disk. > The hard sectored (10 sectors) are probably long gone from this world. I I still have one... Getting the disks is a problem. One day, when I've got nothing better to do, I am going to modify a junk 5.25" drive by mounting a punch/die in place of the index sensor and an indexing plate on the spindle. Then I can punch my own hard-sector holes. > still have mine and it occasionally gets the dust blown away. > For those who learned to use a good typewriter this is the best keyboard ever > installed on a PC. I thought it was a fairly standard design, similar to the ones on the VT100, early TRS-80, HP85, etc. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:48:32 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Michael Holley wrote: > [snip] > > Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages. > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm > Wow. I'm speechless. That is one amazing repair. I think it's high time for > me to smash my piggy-bank, raid my bank account and buy a nice soldering > station :-) Well, I should probably upgrade myself (I still use an old Weller TCP, which has a not particularly accurate thermostat), but I can assure you that even that is a lot nicer than most 'hobbyist grade' irons. To the extent that on the few occasions that I've tried to use a cheap, totally non-thermonstatically-controller iron recently (to save going back to get my Weller), I've had to give up and go and get said unit. > I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far too overpowered for You probably mean _UNDERPOWERED_ ! Power is not the same as temperature. For example, my Weller is actually a 45W unit, which sounds rediculously high (after all, many books recomend a 15W iron for PCB work). The problem with too high a power in a non-controlled iron is that it gets too hot. The problem with too little power (in any type of iron) is that it takes too long to heat the joint up, thus getting the rest of the PCB and components hot, causing damage. Try soldering (or worse, desoldering) an IC pin connected to an internal ground plane on a multi-layer PCB and you'll see what I mean -tony --__--__-- Message: 8 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:52:57 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > when I somehow plugged one of the Molex connectors in backwards, but > > a local computer club member was able to repair the damage for me at > > the time. > If only those kind of clubs still existed... Now, I've got some spare Indeed. The problem is that classic-computer/hardware hackers are not grouped close enough together for such a club to be really workable. You'd really have to meet face-to-face. Occassionally, we do hardware hacking at HPCC, and I almost always have a reasonable toolkit with me. I guess that's one of the last clubs where things do get dismantled and modified -- if I am wrong, and there's another one in the London (UK) area, then please enlighten me :-) > cash... I think it's high time to fix the Jupiter Ace. Properly. > Does anyone have a schematic for a 2114 RAM tester? I think I may have blew Put the supect one in the character generator area (and try it in both positions). The machine will start up with it there, but you'll only get half of each character recogniseable if it's defective... -tony --__--__-- Message: 9 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:56:07 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Hi all, > I'm now starting on the Jupiter Ace again and I've got one really big > question that's been bugging me for a while. How the heck does the Jupiter > Ace display *graphics* on-screen? It looks like the chargen is text-only and It doesn't!. You've noticed the problem. All you can do is redefine the characters (acutally, it's worse than you think -- 1K bytes of RAM is 128 8*8 patterns -- the high bit of the character code is used to invert all the dots in the pattern IIRC). And 256 chracters is not enough for the entire screen. That's why you can't have an arbitrray image on the screen. There was a Jupiter Cantab untility to allow setting/reseting points, and one of the error messages was something like 'All characters used' :-) > I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size > edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were My obvious thought is that most cheap stereo headphones are 32 Ohm impdedance, and about that size. How about raiding a pair? -tony --__--__-- Message: 10 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Trouble with ASR33 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:01:07 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > So if the return character is not getting to the rails correctly then > > firstly it won't punch properly and secondly, it won't be detected by the > > approipriate lever in the function unit. > > I haven't be able to verify what character is being produced because the > durn carriage is stuck on the right. Once I get the carriage returned > then I can determine what's going on. Sure you can. In fact the carriage won't help you much anyway because it onlly really decodes printing characters. Look at the selector rails. You'll see there are 8 of them (at least where they connect to the punch), and it's not hard, even without the manual, to work out which state is a 0 and which is a 1, and what the bit sequence is. Then you can see how they're set for each character. Another trick is to use the reader. Open the cover (trivial for you), hold down the tape sensor, and turn it on. Then hold down various combinations of the pecker pins and see what happens. If you can get a friend to help,, you could probably hold down the right combination for a CR -- and see if the carriage then returns. If it does, then you've got a keyboard problem, of course. > > > So let's get that missing bit back first. Are you running the machine in > > LOCAL mode (i.e. from its own keyboard to the printer?). If so, the > > Yes, LOCAL mode. > > > problem could be in the transmitter side (contacts on the keyboard, for > > example). Or it could be a problem in the RX unit (sticking lever). I > > think it's safe to assume that the solenoid driver is not the problem > > here (it's not going to mangle only one bit). > > While I can't say I examined it to the point of ruling this out, I didn't > notice anything wrong with the levers. However, it is an obvious place to > start. Actually, since you're working in local mode, I'd start with the keyboard and distributor contacts. The former, particularly, are known to give problems in old machines. -tony --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "J.C.Wren" To: Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:51:07 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org There is only one TRUE soldering iron. If you're serious about soldering and surface mount, you want a Metcal. Don't get the SP-200 series, they're junk. Used Metcals can be had on eBay. Avoid the RFG-30 bases, those are antiques (and not in a good way). The MX 500-DS is ideal, as you can use the 2nd port for either another wand, or the Talon tweezers. The tips are cartridge style tips, and hold temperature regulation far better than a Weller or Hakko (I've used *lots* of different irons in product environments. Don't tell me how much you love your Weller or Hakko until you use a Metcal. Once you've had, you'd just as soon use a wood burner as go back). There are well over 100 different tip styles available, including specialty tips for removing QFP, SOICs, PLCCs, etc. The Talon tweezers are really nice for removing SMT resistors, caps, and with the right tips, SOICs are easily removed. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 18:49 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration > > > > Michael Holley wrote: > > [snip] > > > Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages. > > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm > > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm > > Wow. I'm speechless. That is one amazing repair. I think > it's high time for > > me to smash my piggy-bank, raid my bank account and buy a > nice soldering > > station :-) > > Well, I should probably upgrade myself (I still use an old > Weller TCP, > which has a not particularly accurate thermostat), but I can > assure you > that even that is a lot nicer than most 'hobbyist grade' irons. > > To the extent that on the few occasions that I've tried to > use a cheap, > totally non-thermonstatically-controller iron recently (to save going > back to get my Weller), I've had to give up and go and get said unit. > > > > I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far > too overpowered for > > You probably mean _UNDERPOWERED_ ! > > Power is not the same as temperature. For example, my Weller > is actually > a 45W unit, which sounds rediculously high (after all, many books > recomend a 15W iron for PCB work). The problem with too high > a power in a > non-controlled iron is that it gets too hot. The problem with > too little > power (in any type of iron) is that it takes too long to heat > the joint > up, thus getting the rest of the PCB and components hot, > causing damage. > > Try soldering (or worse, desoldering) an IC pin connected to > an internal > ground plane on a multi-layer PCB and you'll see what I mean > > -tony --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Stuart Johnson" To: Subject: Re: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" HP 5036A Monitor ROM Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:13:42 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen S" To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:31 PM Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" HP 5036A Monitor ROM > By request, you can currently find source code for the HP 5036A Monitor ROM > here: > > http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/5036a/5036A.HTML > > This source code was generated by unassembling the 5036A ROM and then adding > the comments, labels, and symbols from the source listing in the manual. I > have not had time yet to proof read all of the comments that I manually > typed into the source from the manual, but I have verified that this source > reassebles into binary code that matches the ROM. > > Appendex E of the manual contains notes on running the demo programs in the > ROM {EHCO, ANDGT, CONV, WTM, SQRL, ORGAN, ROCT, STW, SNAKE}. When I have > more time I will try to add that info. > > -Glen > Glen, Thanks VERY much. I am surprised you got to this so quickly, and especially for verifying that the code reassembles into the ROM. I will look forward to the notes for the demo programs and will continue to look for a source for the manuals. Stuart Johnson --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Glen S" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Soldering Irons Metcal Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:34:02 -0800 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I picked up a used MX-500S on eBay and later a DS1 to go with it. I still need to pick up a compressor some day before I can use the DS1. What I don't have are any manuals nor can I find any online anywhere and it's not clear if Metcal or distributors sell copies of the manuals. It would be nice to have instructions for the DS1 before I need to use it the first time. I don't think I have all of the necessary filters and such. -Glen > > There is only one TRUE soldering iron. If you're serious about soldering >and surface mount, you want a Metcal. Don't get the SP-200 series, they're >junk. Used Metcals can be had on eBay. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:21:19 -0500 (EST) From: Megan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >> I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had >> trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering >> items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write >> off my payment and avoid these offers in the future? > >I don't know, but I sent off a $15 money order weeks ago for two of the >books he listed for sale here on the list, and I haven't heard from him >since. I also sent off some money for a few books from the same list, and haven't received anything yet. I have also sent mail and have yet to receive a response. Megan --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:28:39 -0500 (EST) From: William Donzelli To: cctalk@classiccmp.org cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I also sent off some money for a few books from the same list, and > haven't received anything yet. I have also sent mail and have yet > to receive a response. I suppose I should go on record as well (no, I am not trying to crucify Jim - he is a good guy, just going thru a rough patch right now). Jim, if you are monitoring the list somehow, we need to talk about that 6800 stuff... Don't everyone get the wrong idea - the deal never really fully formed... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:12:31 -0800 Subject: Workslate From: Ron Hudson To: Classic Computers Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I have a workslate, workslate pen plotter, Several bits of software on the minicassettes the workslated uses. Who wants it? Whatcha got to trade? Anybody got a Poly 88 5 board working S100 bus computer? Atari Portfolio? Any HP handheld (hp 35, hp 67, hp 97, hp41, hp 71, hp 75) just because it's not on the list doesn't mean I am not interested in it. Wanna trade? --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Jay West" To: Subject: new finds Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:52:18 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Why do I keep getting old PC's donated to me? *sigh* Just received an epson equity I, if anyone wants it. Also, didn't someone want the Leading Edge 500AT that I got a while back? Jay West End of cctech Digest From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Mar 18 19:58:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Musicman wrote: > Wow! You are complaining about receiving 'donations'? I'd love to have a > PDP-11 or an old VAX or even old Commodore equip. donated to me! > Would make a great project and display at work in our data center! > > dww 1.) I have a couple of 11/23 chassis with some cards; you pay shipping on about 50 pounds from zip 95971 and one of them is yours. 2.) There is utterly, absolutely *NO* excuse possible for prepending a five-line reply to the entire freakin' digest, man!! You really need to figure out how your mail client works, and then learn how to EDIT YOUR REPLIES. Please!!! Have Spleen: Will Vent John From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 18 20:56:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: new finds References: <009601c2ed5d$f8defd20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000601c2edc2$093fa700$0400fea9@game> If you run into an old Gateway 386/DX desktop with keyboard let me know. I could use a nice small desktop dos box with ps2 keyboard and mouse connections. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: new finds > Why do I keep getting old PC's donated to me? *sigh* Just received an epson > equity I, if anyone wants it. Also, didn't someone want the Leading Edge > 500AT that I got a while back? > > Jay West From anheier at owt.com Tue Mar 18 21:05:01 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: More DEC cards available Message-ID: This is the final lot of DEC boards I need to clear out. If there are no takers, they go to the recycler next week. Thanks Norm I want $5 each + shipping. M8192, no processor M8200 YA M8201 M7255 M7256 M7257 M7651 M7900 M7903 M7904 I also have an old ST-251 hard disk. Thanks for your interest Norm From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Tue Mar 18 22:09:01 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: More DEC cards available References: Message-ID: <001b01c2edcd$7374aca0$b0daf7a5@shannon> Hi, I would be interested in the M8192, M7651 and the ST251.Please let me know how to pay and what the total will be. Thank you Shannon Hoskins 8062 Hwy. 99E P.O. Box 444 Los Molinos, CA 96055 530/384-2094 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm & Beth Anheier" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 7:11 PM Subject: More DEC cards available > This is the final lot of DEC boards I need to clear out. If there are no > takers, they go to the recycler next week. Thanks Norm > > I want $5 each + shipping. > > M8192, no processor > M8200 YA > M8201 > > M7255 > M7256 > M7257 > > M7651 > > M7900 > M7903 > M7904 > > I also have an old ST-251 hard disk. > > Thanks for your interest > Norm From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Tue Mar 18 22:17:00 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds References: Message-ID: <003601c2edce$852d9c80$b0daf7a5@shannon> Who has the PDP11? I am in zip code 95973 and would love to pick it up. Thank you, Shannon Hoskins 530/384-2094 pds3@ix.netcom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Subject: new finds > On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Musicman wrote: > > > Wow! You are complaining about receiving 'donations'? I'd love to have a > > PDP-11 or an old VAX or even old Commodore equip. donated to me! > > Would make a great project and display at work in our data center! > > > > dww > > > 1.) I have a couple of 11/23 chassis with some cards; you pay shipping > on about 50 pounds from zip 95971 and one of them is yours. > > 2.) There is utterly, absolutely *NO* excuse possible for prepending a > five-line reply to the entire freakin' digest, man!! You really need to > figure out how your mail client works, and then learn how to EDIT YOUR > REPLIES. > > Please!!! > > > > > Have Spleen: Will Vent > > John From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Wed Mar 19 00:25:01 2003 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: documation m1000 In-Reply-To: <200303172109.h2HL9DQO005730@spies.com> (Al Kossow's message of "Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:09:13 -0800") References: <200303172109.h2HL9DQO005730@spies.com> Message-ID: Al Kossow writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2165479743 > > The seller has put about 4 of these up already. > I bought one, the belts and rubber rollers are in good shape > in the one that I got, although it's having some trouble > picking cards. A second one is on its way for someone else. How does one of these interface? I'd like a card reader, how much work would it be to hook it to something? Can anyone provide a basic overview of the common documation and cardmation models? From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Mar 19 00:32:01 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: <003a01c2ece8$76be0e50$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <000c01c2ede0$588eb580$4d4d2c0a@atx> > There is only one TRUE soldering iron. If you're serious > about soldering > and surface mount, you want a Metcal. Don't get the SP-200 > series, they're > junk. Used Metcals can be had on eBay. Avoid the RFG-30 bases, those are > antiques (and not in a good way). The MX 500-DS is ideal, as you can use > the 2nd port for either another wand, or the Talon tweezers. > What is the problem with the SP-200? At a recent local auction I picked-up 8 of these for ?40 intending to resell on eBay - A couple of them don't have tips, the others all have high temperature tips. Andy From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Mar 19 01:24:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Big Want List Message-ID: Would you settle for a Smith-Corona ElectraType III Typewriter with daisy-wheel printing and a DB-9 (male) serial connection in the back that makes it a LQ serial printer? May know where I can get one... :) Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] I'm working on a rather large project and am looking for the following computers and hardware: Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Mar 19 01:29:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Penske is our friend! Message-ID: Texas would at least like a "DBA" for the county where the *business* resides... And the TaxMan wanteth his share as well (min $125/quarter whether or not you sold anything, unless you can demonstrate a clear loss exceding the value of any state taxes claimed...) Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:43 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Penske is our friend! > I hate to rain on your parade but ... > > >> If I part the computers out and sell everything on ebay or, worse, > >> for gold and scrap value, would that make me eligible for the > >> business rate? > > >Yes. > > WRONG. Getting a business license is what would make you eligible > for the business rate. Well, maybe not then...I don't know Penske's rules. However, as was pointed out, being non-incorporated and doing the above scenario above certainly is legitimate business, as long as the taxman gets his share (Schedule C, I think? I don't do it anymore, since I incorporated. Anyway, that is what accountants are for). No license is needed, at least in some states. I would think, however, that Penske would want to see some sort of legitimate business paper if it can't have an EIN. > Busted an axle > as I recall. Could have had an accident or even killed someone. That's how > too many a personal user would do it, and the rental company and their > insurance carrier very well know it through experience. Exactly, so you could actually think of the business rate as "normal" and the personal rate as "built in insurance". William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Mar 19 07:35:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 Message-ID: <3E78713F.EBBF7C0@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of making up a second (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 I will be picking up some Memorx CD-R blanks in a few days and starting on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Mar 19 09:21:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: dbit E11 and rtv53_rl.dsk Message-ID: <0D56B28C-5A1E-11D7-BD18-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> I have a machine dedicated to DOS, and I have found that dbit's pdp11 emulator works under DOS (I wish sim worked under DOS) Is there any way to get RSTS or any other pdp11 os running in this environment? Anyone know what rtv53_rl.dsk is? I think it's a RL disk image of version 5.3 of uh I used to remember. Is RT a pdp11 OS? if so anyone know how to get this running? Thanks! From jim at smithy.com Wed Mar 19 09:30:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: IC 74F582 Message-ID: <1048087073.21608.14.camel@server.smithy.com> Does anyone know what this is? It's on a board with six 74LS181's and two 74F582, as well as some static RAM and a ton of other TTL logic. -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Mar 19 09:46:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: IC 74F582 Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFCA7@lif015.vtmerlin.com> It's a 4 bit BCD ALU, > Does anyone know what this is? It's on a board with six 74LS181's and > two 74F582, as well as some static RAM and a ton of other TTL logic. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From kth at srv.net Wed Mar 19 09:52:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: dbit E11 and rtv53_rl.dsk References: <0D56B28C-5A1E-11D7-BD18-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3E789818.5030103@srv.net> Ron Hudson wrote: > I have a machine dedicated to DOS, and I have found that dbit's pdp11 > emulator > works under DOS (I wish sim worked under DOS) > > Is there any way to get RSTS or any other pdp11 os running in this > environment? > > Anyone know what rtv53_rl.dsk is? I think it's a RL disk image of > version 5.3 of > uh I used to remember. Is RT a pdp11 OS? > > if so anyone know how to get this running? RT11 version 5.3 on RL02 packs. Essentially, it is a single user OS for the PDP-11, originally designed for real time work (that's where the RT comes from). You should just have to unzip/untar/whatever, point the emulator at the disk image (as an RL02 drive), and boot. From hansp at aconit.org Wed Mar 19 09:55:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: dbit E11 and rtv53_rl.dsk In-Reply-To: <0D56B28C-5A1E-11D7-BD18-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <0D56B28C-5A1E-11D7-BD18-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3E789244.2080405@aconit.org> Ron Hudson wrote: > I have a machine dedicated to DOS, and I have found that dbit's pdp11 > emulator > works under DOS (I wish sim worked under DOS) Do you mean SIMH ? If so it should be possible with a DOS extender. -- hbp From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Mar 19 10:17:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: IC 74F582 Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFCAA@lif015.vtmerlin.com> And I've found this .. B1 1+-v-+16 Vcc B2 2| |15 A2 B3 3| |14 A1 A3 4| |13 A0 S=A+B+Cn Cn 5| |12 B0 Cn+4=OUT Cn+4 6| |11 S0 S2 7| |10 S1 GND 8+---+9 S3 Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 19 10:33:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: <000c01c2ede0$588eb580$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <002001c2ee34$de40bd50$020010ac@k4jcw> Andy, (This is a reply I sent to someone else that asked me the same question) Perhaps I'm a little harsh. My experience with them is they tend to be somewhat underpowered for heavier pins. But my major complain is they use a different tip series than the MX-500's. For light work (typically through hole, SMT), it should work fine. For soldering TO-220 tabs to ground planes, I think you'll have problems. But more than anything, it's making the investment in tips. And the tip selection is a lot more limited. Of course, if you're buying tips on eBay, the prices are so low that you won't have a large investment. Buying tips at retail hurts. As far as things going wrong with them, I'm not aware of any particular failure modes with them. I also have a lot less experience with them than the RFG-30 and MX-500 bases. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Andy Holt > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 01:26 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II > restoration) > > > > There is only one TRUE soldering iron. If you're serious > > about soldering > > and surface mount, you want a Metcal. Don't get the SP-200 > > series, they're > > junk. Used Metcals can be had on eBay. Avoid the RFG-30 > bases, those are > > antiques (and not in a good way). The MX 500-DS is ideal, > as you can use > > the 2nd port for either another wand, or the Talon tweezers. > > > What is the problem with the SP-200? > > At a recent local auction I picked-up 8 of these for ?40 > intending to resell > on eBay - > A couple of them don't have tips, the others all have high > temperature tips. > > Andy From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Mar 19 10:35:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT References: Message-ID: <3E789BDC.3A4ECB19@comcast.net> Yeah, I'm a little to this thread, but... I have (for sale/trade) 3 of the SIIG EIDE BIOSAdapter ISA cards. They work with the existing IDE controller to break the 528MB partition limits. It also directly supports drives up to 8.4GB. I've used the card before, and it works pretty good.... Ron Hudson wrote: > > EZDrive is working well. Thanks all : ^ ) > > On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 08:58 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Some BIOSen will only address 1024 cylinders, even if they "see" > > more. > > OnTrack, Drive Rocket, EZDrive, any of the drive overlay programs will > > get around that. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Mar 19 10:40:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT References: <3E789BDC.3A4ECB19@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E789C52.3441D4A9@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Yeah, I'm a little to this thread, but... > > I have (for sale/trade) 3 of the SIIG EIDE BIOSAdapter ISA cards. They > work with the existing IDE controller to break the 528MB partition > limits. It also directly supports drives up to 8.4GB. I've used the card > before, and it works pretty good.... > Oh, and I forgot to mention... It's all done in the hardware. No disk manager needed. Which is nice, since I hate OnTrack, it makes moving the HDD to another PC a bit of a pain... > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > EZDrive is working well. Thanks all : ^ ) > > > > On Friday, March 14, 2003, at 08:58 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > Some BIOSen will only address 1024 cylinders, even if they "see" > > > more. > > > OnTrack, Drive Rocket, EZDrive, any of the drive overlay programs will > > > get around that. > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Mar 19 10:51:01 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: IC 74F582 Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFCAB@lif015.vtmerlin.com> But this may be the correct one. I seem to have both listed as 74F582 B2 1+--v--+24 Vcc !A/S 2| |23 NC !A/S = add/subtract B3 3| |22 B1 C/!B = carry/borrow A3 4| |21 A2 C/!B 5| |20 A1 F=A +/- B !G 6| |19 A0 !P 7| |18 B0 C/!Bn+4 8| |17 F0 NC 9| |16 F1 A=B 10| |15 NC NC 11| |14 F3 GND 12+-----+13 F2 Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 19 11:14:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: documation m1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to wrote: > How does one of these interface? Not readily or easily. > I'd like a card reader, how much work would it be to hook it to something? You need a 16-bit parallel input into whatever machine you want to connect it to. You'll need to be able to latch certain inputs to catch very brief signals (some as short as 6us). You'll then need to convert from punch card coding to ASCII. If you want much more specific information, let me know. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 19 11:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Need PDP-1 and PDP-8 Message-ID: Is there anyone in the Boston area or near the east coast that wants to make a little money with their old iron? There is a production company doing a documentary and needs a PDP-8 (straight) for their project, as well as a PDP-1. I am not aware of any PDP-1's out there, but I remember there is at least one PDP-8 in those parts. If you've got one and can stand to lend it out for a day or two, please contact me and I'll give you the details. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Mar 19 11:19:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: new finds References: <009601c2ed5d$f8defd20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <000601c2edc2$093fa700$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3E78A483.9103146D@comcast.net> TeoZ wrote: > > If you run into an old Gateway 386/DX desktop with keyboard let me know. I > could use a nice small desktop dos box with ps2 keyboard and mouse > connections. > How about a Digital DECpc 420SX? It's about 15" D x 16" W x 4 1/2" H. PS/2 mouse & keyboard, onboard video, 3 ISA slots. 3 1/2 & 5 1/4 floppy drives. 127MB (?) HDD, and Digital DE201 NIC. To sweeten the deal, I can most likely scare up a 540MB (or so) HDD, 32MB RAM, and I think I do have a 486 DX/33 or DX2/66 that may fit in the limited height space... Let me know... I also am getting together a list of other PC, Mac, and older networking hardware that I want to sell/trade. Also, apologies to John Allain. I _will_ get pictures and desriptions on the web of that Industrial VAX you're interested in. I'll also have some quick questions about it too, that hopefully someone can help with. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Mar 19 11:27:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: new finds References: <009601c2ed5d$f8defd20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <000601c2edc2$093fa700$0400fea9@game> <3E78A483.9103146D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E78A644.4FFE316F@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > TeoZ wrote: > > > > If you run into an old Gateway 386/DX desktop with keyboard let me know. I > > could use a nice small desktop dos box with ps2 keyboard and mouse > > connections. > > > > How about a Digital DECpc 420SX? It's about 15" D x 16" W x 4 1/2" H. > PS/2 mouse & keyboard, onboard video, 3 ISA slots. 3 1/2 & 5 1/4 floppy > drives. 127MB (?) HDD, and Digital DE201 NIC. > To sweeten the deal, I can most likely scare up a 540MB (or so) HDD, > 32MB RAM, and I think I do have a 486 DX/33 or DX2/66 that may fit in > the limited height space... > Let me know... > Also, I just found a Unisys "evalutaion unit" 486, of similar configuration & size as the DECpc above, except that the Unisys has the bonus of an on-board SCSI controller! -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dlormand at aztecfreenet.org Wed Mar 19 13:49:01 2003 From: dlormand at aztecfreenet.org (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: <200303191945.h2JJjCPV028395@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> >I could sure use some. Are they the nine-chip sort? Oops! I guess this wasn't clear enough. These are OLD cards, ISA expanded memory cards for 286es. Not SIMMs/SIPPs. I can't really imagine anyone wanting them, but I thought I'd ask before I toss. From dbwood at kc.rr.com Wed Mar 19 14:14:01 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: making disk images References: Message-ID: <0efc01c2ee53$99291d60$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Drive Image by PowerQuest. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 11:55 PM Subject: Re: making disk images > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware? > > I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also > > don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting > > and hard-to-replace. Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving > > but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare > > metal. What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in > > the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start > > in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution. > > Tom's Root/Boot Disk > > http://www.toms.net/rb > > Doc From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Mar 19 14:16:00 2003 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: documation m1000 In-Reply-To: <20030319180001.17983.19892.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E785ECA.17056.23E11C0F@localhost> There are three flavors of Documation interfaces: parallel differential, parallel single-ended and serial (Cardamation). I believe the M1000 only came with the differential interface. I have an HP-branded M600 (HP2983A) and it also has the differential interface. I'm in the process of building a Documation to USB interface based on a Ubicom/Scenix microcontroller and the FTDI parallel- to-USB chip. Have the parts but haven't had time to get started on construction. I'll post the schematics and code hopefully within a month. Dang it Sellam, your M1000 slipped under my ebay search radar because it's a "ballot card reader" not a "punched card reader." Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From cb at mythtech.net Wed Mar 19 14:21:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable Message-ID: What is DEC AUI Cable? ie: What is it used for, and what kind of wire is inside? I have 3 lengths of the stuff, and its stiff as hell. Feels like maybe multiple strands of co-ax or something. The jacket is labeled 4PR so that might make sense. It has 15 pin D-shell right angle connectors on it. I'm just curious about it. -chris From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Mar 19 14:53:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable References: Message-ID: <3E78D85F.AF5A5B8B@comcast.net> chris wrote: > > What is DEC AUI Cable? ie: What is it used for, and what kind of wire is > inside? > > I have 3 lengths of the stuff, and its stiff as hell. Feels like maybe > multiple strands of co-ax or something. The jacket is labeled 4PR so that > might make sense. It has 15 pin D-shell right angle connectors on it. > > I'm just curious about it. > > -chris > Good old fashioned ethernet cable. Ever see one of those 15 pin connectors with a slide-lock on a NIC? That's what they hook to. BTW, when are you gonna stop by up here, and get your goodies? ;) -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Mar 19 15:03:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, chris wrote: > What is DEC AUI Cable? ie: What is it used for, and what kind of wire is > inside? > > I have 3 lengths of the stuff, and its stiff as hell. Feels like maybe > multiple strands of co-ax or something. The jacket is labeled 4PR so > that might make sense. It has 15 pin D-shell right angle connectors on > it. > > I'm just curious about it. It's used to connect an AUI transceiver to an AUI network interface. Ages ago (well, has it really been *that* long ago?), you'd have a run of RG11 coax that you would literally drill into and attach a tap to. You would then attach the ethernet transceiver to the tap, which would be cabled to the computer's network interface with an AUI cable. Later on, as RG11 backbones were replaced UTP, fiber, and even RG58 in some cases, other transceivers were produced, and conversion kits were also available for the older tap-type transceivers so they could use a BNC connector. The cable contains, if memory serves, 4 twisted pairs each with a foil wrap shield, possibly a 5th unshielded pair for 12VDC (can't remember for sure, maybe one of the 4 pairs is normally used for this), and everything is then covered with a mylar plastic wrap, a foil shield, and then a braided shield. To top it off, many cables use a Teflon jacket, which makes them suitable for use in air plenums (suspended ceilings). PVC jacketed cables are not suitable for plenum use, since PVC will release a toxic gas if heated above a certain temperature, as would happen in a fire. (Yep, I'm back. My ISP had major issues for ~2 months, and I finally got someone to take notice and do something about them. Now I have a 2500-3000 classiccmp message backlog to read over...) -Toth From vcf at siconic.com Wed Mar 19 15:22:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: documation m1000 In-Reply-To: <3E785ECA.17056.23E11C0F@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Brian Knittel wrote: > Dang it Sellam, your M1000 slipped under my ebay search > radar because it's a "ballot card reader" not a "punched card > reader." Well, I thank whomever brought my attention to it on this list. It'll make the task of converting these punch cards 5 times faster than my M200 ;) I'll have to see if my Apple //e will still be able to keep up with this model. Of course, you're always welcome to borrow it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 19 15:29:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Want Flagstaff Engineering stuff/was Re: making disk images In-Reply-To: <0efc01c2ee53$99291d60$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doc Shipley" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 11:55 PM > Subject: Re: making disk images > > > > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea > hardware? This thread reminds me that I have been in a low key search for software to flesh out the soft/hardware that I have for the late Flagstaff Engineering products. Anyone have any? I would really like to hear of it! - don From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Mar 19 15:56:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... Message-ID: <3E78E5E7.1423E9EE@comcast.net> Gents, I have in my posession an Industrial VAX 630. Seen here... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes I was curious, can anyone give more info on it? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 19 16:30:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: SUN computer part numbers? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030319172819.3a8fc31c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know of a good site where I can look up some SUN part numbers? I picked up a bunch of loose SUN cards and I'm trying to id them. I have numbers like 270-1388-04 (made by Ross Technology, has 2 ea 7c601, 7c602 and 7c605 ICs), 270-1672-04 (a 13W3 video card), 270-1686-09 (a large motherboard). Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 19 16:30:52 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: HP 7906 disk drives available in C. Florida Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030319173105.5d2f0724@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I spotted two of these in a scrap place yesterday. They haven't been there more than a couple of days and look like they're in decent condition. I'll guide you to them but I have NO way to move, store, or ship them. They're in rack mount size cases that are about 30" high and they have a wood looking top on them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 19 16:31:11 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3640s available in C. Florida Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030319173343.21bf147a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't know if anyone is interested in these and I know nothing about them but I spotted two of them in a scrap place yesterday. If someone wants them come and get 'em. (They'll be cheap.) They haven't been there more than a couple of days and look like they're in decent condition. I'll guide you to them but I have NO way to move, store, or ship them. Joe From tponsford at theriver.com Wed Mar 19 16:45:01 2003 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: SUN computer part numbers? References: <3.0.6.16.20030319172819.3a8fc31c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E78DA6E.1040306@theriver.com> http://www.sunstuff.org/hardware/partnumbers/ Joe wrote: > Anybody know of a good site where I can look up some SUN part numbers? I picked up a bunch of loose SUN cards and I'm trying to id them. I have numbers like 270-1388-04 (made by Ross Technology, has 2 ea 7c601, 7c602 and 7c605 ICs), 270-1672-04 (a 13W3 video card), 270-1686-09 (a large motherboard). > > Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 19 16:49:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: SUN computer part numbers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030319172819.3a8fc31c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > Anybody know of a good site where I can look up some SUN part numbers? I picked up a bunch of loose SUN cards and I'm trying to id them. I have numbers like 270-1388-04 (made by Ross Technology, has 2 ea 7c601, 7c602 and 7c605 ICs), 270-1672-04 (a 13W3 video card), 270-1686-09 (a large motherboard). Try http://www.sunhelp.org/info-ref.php -- Doc Shipley || MDR Consulting, Inc. || Pray for peace Austin, Texas || From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Mar 19 16:51:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Need PDP-1 and PDP-8 Message-ID: <200303192247.RAA5885264@shell.TheWorld.com> Sellam, I know of someone with a straight-8 and have passed on your mail. I hope he will contact you directly. Megan From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Mar 19 16:56:00 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3640s available in C. Florida In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030319173343.21bf147a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <9D72BDA2-5A5D-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> I''m not interested in an entire machine but could you grab a mouse for me? On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 05:33 PM, Joe wrote: > I don't know if anyone is interested in these and I know nothing > about them but I spotted two of them in a scrap place yesterday. If > someone wants them come and get 'em. (They'll be cheap.) They haven't > been there more than a couple of days and look like they're in decent > condition. I'll guide you to them but I have NO way to move, store, or > ship them. > > Joe From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Mar 19 17:00:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... In-Reply-To: <3E78E5E7.1423E9EE@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000101c2ee6a$dcc2e760$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Gents, I have in my posession an Industrial VAX 630. > > Seen here... > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes > > I was curious, can anyone give more info on it? Is there much more to say? It's a MicroVAX II in a BA213 chassis. Assuming you've listed all the cards, I don't see any video cards of any description there at all. I'm not sure what that connector is hooked up to (and the link doesn't work). Where is the KVM? The connector looks like one of the ones from a VAXstation II, but it has to connect to a QVSS or QDSS to be of much use! The M9047 is a grant card. The M9060 is (IIRC) a load board (basically a bunch of resistors) which allow the LH PSU to come up. (If either PSU does not turn on, the box stops working). Overall - a nice box. You can (again, IIRC) get RA7x drives to live in the top (if you can get the right mounts) and then, with a KDA50, you can have a nicely configured uVAX II. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 19 17:37:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: IC 74F582 In-Reply-To: <1048087073.21608.14.camel@server.smithy.com> from "Jim Donoghue" at Mar 19, 3 10:17:45 am Message-ID: > Does anyone know what this is? It's on a board with six 74LS181's and > two 74F582, as well as some static RAM and a ton of other TTL logic. According to the Philips FAST databook, it's a 4 bit BCD ALU. Pinout : 1 : B2 2 : A/,S 3 : B3 4 : A3 5 : C,B/ 6 : G/ 7 : P/ 8 : C.B/_n+4 9 : N/C 10 : A=B 11 : N/C 12 : Gnd 13 : F2 14 : F3 15 : N/C 16 : F1 17 : F0 18 : B0 19 : A0 20 : A1 21 : A2 22 : B1 23 : N/C 24 : Vcc Where : An = one operand input Bn = other operand input Fn = function output A/,S = Add (low), Subtract (high) input C,B/ = Carry, Borrow input C,B/_n+4 = Carry, Borrow output P/ = Carry Propagate output G/ = Carry Generate Output A=B = comparator output (open collector) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 19 17:37:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds In-Reply-To: from "Musicman" at Mar 18, 3 06:29:24 pm Message-ID: Can you please trim unnecessary stuff from your replies. I've just deleted 600 lines at the end of this message!. Some of us (not in the US) have to pay by the minute for our downloads! > > Wow! You are complaining about receiving 'donations'? I'd love to have a No, he's complaining about recceiving PCs :-) > PDP-11 or an old VAX or even old Commodore equip. donated to me! I don't think any of us would object to being given a PDP-n (for any ), a VAX, or anything like that. It's no-name PCs which turn up everywhere, which have little to distinguish them from other no-name PCs, and which have little technical interest, that people sometimes moan about. To be practical, _never_ moan at the donor. It's not unheard-of for them to have other 'old and useless' machines hidden away which they will also give you. Probably 8-bit micros (but they're interesting enough), sometimes even nicer stuff. And even PCs sometimes have interesting cards in them. I remember once rescuing a pair of IBM PCs to discover that one had the expansion box (and the driver/receiver cards + cable) and the other had a GPIB card in it... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 19 17:38:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: IC 74F582 In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFCAA@lif015.vtmerlin.com> from "Davison, Lee" at Mar 19, 3 04:14:31 pm Message-ID: > And I've found this .. > > B1 1+-v-+16 Vcc > B2 2| |15 A2 > B3 3| |14 A1 > A3 4| |13 A0 S=A+B+Cn > Cn 5| |12 B0 Cn+4=OUT > Cn+4 6| |11 S0 > S2 7| |10 S1 > GND 8+---+9 S3 Accoding to my Philips databook, that's the pinout of the 74F583 BCD adder. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 19 17:38:29 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:24 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Mar 19, 3 03:18:26 pm Message-ID: > What is DEC AUI Cable? ie: What is it used for, and what kind of wire is > inside? AUI = Attachment Unit Interface (IIRC), the interface between an ethernet controller and the MAU (Media Access Unit). It's the cable for an ethernet tranceiver, therefore. At one time ethernet transceivers were not built into the computer/interface card. They were semi-permanently fixed to the coaxial cable. And you used an AUI cable to connect the computer to the transceiver. It's 4 twisted pairs. 3 are identical and carry the 3 transceiver signals (transmit data, receive data, collision detect). The other pair is thicker wires (officially) and carries the 12V power supply to the transceiver. A few years about I had to make up one of these cables because my PERQ uses 4-40 screw-down jackposts and not the normal slidelock posts on the ethernet connectors. Getting a couple of metres of the cable was the hardest part of the job! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 19 17:38:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: More DEC cards available In-Reply-To: from "Norm & Beth Anheier" at Mar 18, 3 07:11:12 pm Message-ID: > M7255 > M7256 > M7257 I am trying to remember what those are. Possibly part of the RK11D / RKV11 controller? > > M7900 > M7903 > M7904 Anyone here repairing an 11/44? IIRC those are the console interface, floating point processor and data path for that machine. -tony From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Mar 19 17:48:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds References: Message-ID: <3E790170.4070604@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > And even PCs sometimes have interesting cards in them. I remember once > rescuing a pair of IBM PCs to discover that one had the expansion box > (and the driver/receiver cards + cable) and the other had a GPIB card in > it... I was fortunate enough to be offered an Amstrad PC1512 a while ago, with a GPIB card. Even better, I managed to *not* take the Amstrad, and still get the GPIB card! Oh, and my IBM PC also has the expansion box, cards and cable. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 18:12:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: More DEC cards available Message-ID: Who was offering these cards originally? I didn't pay much attention at the time, but now that you mention that they are 11/44 cards I should pick up spares for the 11/44 I have that I need to get running. > > M7900 > > M7903 > > M7904 > >Anyone here repairing an 11/44? IIRC those are the console interface, >floating point processor and data path for that machine. > >-tony _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 18:21:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: More DEC cards available Message-ID: Oh, those aren't 11/44 cards. RK611 M7900 RK06/07 Unibus interface RK611 M7901 RK06/07 register module RK611 M7903 RK06/07 data module RK611 M7904 RK06/07 driver interface module The 11/44 cards are M7090 KD11-Z U 11/44 console interface module M7091 KE44-A U 11/44 CIS control store module M7092 KE44-A U 11/44 CIS data path/logic module M7093 FP11-F U 11/44 floating point module M7094 KD11-Z U 11/44 data path module M7095 KD11-Z U 11/44 control module M7096 KD11-Z U 11/44 multifunction module M7097 KK11-B U 11/44 4-Kword cache module M7098 KD11-Z U 11/44 UNIBUS interface > >Who was offering these cards originally? I didn't pay much attention at >the time, but now that you mention that they are 11/44 cards I should pick >up spares for the 11/44 I have that I need to get running. > > >> > M7900 >> > M7903 >> > M7904 >> >>Anyone here repairing an 11/44? IIRC those are the console interface, >>floating point processor and data path for that machine. >> >>-tony _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Mar 19 18:23:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: dbit E11 and rtv53_rl.dsk References: <0D56B28C-5A1E-11D7-BD18-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3E79093A.6DD85EFA@compsys.to> >Ron Hudson wrote: > I have a machine dedicated to DOS, and I have found that dbit's pdp11 > emulator > works under DOS (I wish sim worked under DOS) Jerome Fine replies: Since both SIMH and Ersatz-11 work under W95/W98, I can't see why SIMH will not work under DOS will not handle SIMH as well as E11. Please try again. > Is there any way to get RSTS or any other pdp11 os running in this > environment? As far as I know, both SIMH and E11 run any PDP-11 operating system. For myself, I have used ONLY RT-11, but both SIMH and E11 run very well. > Anyone know what rtv53_rl.dsk is? I think it's a RL disk image of > version 5.3 of > uh I used to remember. Is RT a pdp11 OS? Normally, a DSK type file is fully expanded. If you have a file which is 10 MBytes (20450 blocks of 512 bytes each), then it is almost certain you have a copy of an RL02 distribution for V5.03 of RT-11. Under E11, the commands: MOUNT DL0: rtv53_rl.dsk/RL02/RONLY BOOT DL0: should get you started. The compressed file which contains the V5.03 of RT-11 distribution for an RL02 media is 1,373,083 bytes. you need to UnZip this file which I have heard produces 3 files. RT-11 was probably the first major operating system for the PDP-11 and was first released in the early 1970s. V5.06 was released by DEC in August 1992 and was partially made Y2K. V5.07 was released by Mentec in November 1998. > if so anyone know how to get this running? > Thanks! Let us know how you made out. Any other questions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 19 18:35:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds In-Reply-To: <3E790170.4070604@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Mar 19, 3 11:46:56 pm Message-ID: > I was fortunate enough to be offered an Amstrad PC1512 a while ago, > with a GPIB card. Even better, I managed to *not* take the Amstrad, > and still get the GPIB card! Amstrads are one of the few clones I don't mind too much. Amstrad produced real service manuals (well, schematics and parts lists) for their machines until quite late on, and they are not difficult to get. Equally component-level spares seem to exist. -tony From dmuran at tuad.org Wed Mar 19 18:46:01 2003 From: dmuran at tuad.org (D.A. Muran-de Assereto) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3640s available in C. Florida In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030319173343.21bf147a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030319173343.21bf147a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030320004238.M80370@tuad.org> On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:33:43, Joe wrote > I don't know if anyone is interested in these and I know nothing about them but I spotted two of them in a scrap place yesterday. If someone wants them come and get 'em. (They'll be cheap.) They haven't been there more than a couple of days and look like they're in decent condition. I'll guide you to them but I have NO way to move, store, or ship them. > > Joe Where in Central Florida? Dave Muran-de Assereto From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 19 19:24:01 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: "The Art of Electronics" is priceless and amazing! In-Reply-To: References: <20030228183810.63162.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030320012053.DJVR10618.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> I just got my book after over 4 weeks of waiting since the order placed. I wondered why I didn't get it eariler because it's so good compared to my college electronics technology textbooks! Cheers, Wizard From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Wed Mar 19 20:59:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) References: <20030319180001.17983.19892.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001c01c2ee8c$31e77640$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> The Metcal system that I have has a PS2E-01 power supply and a RM3E soldering iron. It uses STTC and SMTC tips. I have no documentation on this unit and the PS2E is not mentioned on the Metcal site. How old is this unit? I used a Weller WTPCN for twenty years and it is fine for 1980 vintage through hole components. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 19 21:03:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030320020424.HVHL23955.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Wednesday 19 March 2003 17:46, Tony Duell wrote: > Can you please trim unnecessary stuff from your replies. I've just > deleted 600 lines at the end of this message!. Some of us (not in the US) > have to pay by the minute for our downloads! > > > Wow! You are complaining about receiving 'donations'? I'd love to have a > > No, he's complaining about recceiving PCs :-) > > > PDP-11 or an old VAX or even old Commodore equip. donated to me! > > I don't think any of us would object to being given a PDP-n (for any > ), a VAX, or anything like that. It's no-name PCs which turn up > everywhere, which have little to distinguish them from other no-name PCs, > and which have little technical interest, that people sometimes moan about. > > To be practical, _never_ moan at the donor. It's not unheard-of for them > to have other 'old and useless' machines hidden away which they will also > give you. Probably 8-bit micros (but they're interesting enough), > sometimes even nicer stuff. I usually follow this advice and now my garage is overflowing. In one recent case the person mentioned a few early Olivettis and an IBM portable as well as several 386 vintage machines. I agreed to take them all to save him the bother of hauling the 386s to the scrapper. Well he ended doing some house cleaning the weekend before and got rid of the old machines after putting aside the 386s for me. From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 19 21:19:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 4004 based board In-Reply-To: <20030320020424.HVHL23955.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <007c01c2ee8f$102ffe70$020010ac@k4jcw> I'm looking for a schematic of a 4004 based design. I know several existed, but I'm not having much luck with my searches. Can someone point me at a design? --John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 19 21:36:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3640s available in C. Florida In-Reply-To: <9D72BDA2-5A5D-11D7-9620-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030319173343.21bf147a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030319223730.21bfd0ae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> If I find one. Is it marked Symbolics? I didn't see any Symbolics monitors or keyboards but I'll look closer when I go back. Joe At 05:53 PM 3/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >I''m not interested in an entire machine but could you grab a mouse for >me? > >On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 05:33 PM, Joe wrote: > >> I don't know if anyone is interested in these and I know nothing >> about them but I spotted two of them in a scrap place yesterday. If >> someone wants them come and get 'em. (They'll be cheap.) They haven't >> been there more than a couple of days and look like they're in decent >> condition. I'll guide you to them but I have NO way to move, store, or >> ship them. >> >> Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 19 21:36:35 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Want Flagstaff Engineering stuff/was Re: making disk images In-Reply-To: References: <0efc01c2ee53$99291d60$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030319224010.21bfa3d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Don, Somewhere I have (had?) an old IBM AT with a FE 8" drive controller in it. It MAY still have the hard drive in it and it MAY still have the SW installed. I'll try to find it. Joe At 01:26 PM 3/19/03 -0800, you wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Doc Shipley" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 11:55 PM >> Subject: Re: making disk images >> >> >> > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: >> > >> > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea >> hardware? > > > >This thread reminds me that I have been in a low key search for >software to flesh out the soft/hardware that I have for the late >Flagstaff Engineering products. > >Anyone have any? I would really like to hear of it! > > - don From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 19 21:37:43 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3640s available in C. Florida In-Reply-To: <20030320004238.M80370@tuad.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20030319173343.21bf147a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030319173343.21bf147a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030319223845.21bfde7c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:43 PM 3/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:33:43, Joe wrote >> I don't know if anyone is interested in these and I know nothing about them >but I spotted two of them in a scrap place yesterday. If someone wants them >come and get 'em. (They'll be cheap.) They haven't been there more than a >couple of days and look like they're in decent condition. I'll guide you to >them but I have NO way to move, store, or ship them. >> >> Joe > > > >Where in Central Florida? > >Dave Muran-de Assereto > Right in the middle. Just outside of Orlando. Joe From hharte at hartetec.com Wed Mar 19 22:16:01 2003 From: hharte at hartetec.com (Howard M. Harte) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <001901c2ed1d$9afc0f80$6400a8c0@hharte> Hello, Do you still have these boards for trade? If so, what sort of microprocessors are you looking for? The most interesting processor that I have is an Intel 8088-6 ES (engineering sample.) Note that it is 6MHz (not 5) and from what I gather, it didn’t make it to full production. Take care, Howard Hi, I have a bunch of DEC boards that need a good home. I don't know the functionality of these DEC boards. They appear to be in good shape. The description info is what I got of the internet. Let me know if any of these are interesting and we will go from there. I am mostly interested in trading for old microprocessors for my collection. Regards, Norm Here's my DEC board list. MODULE OPTION BUS DESCRIPTION M7095 KD11-Z U 11/44 control module M7096 KD11-Z U 11/44 multifunction module M7097 KK11-B U 11/44 4-Kword cache module M7098 KD11-Z U 11/44 UNIBUS interface M8192 KDJ11-AA Q LSI-11/73 CPU, 8-Kbyte cache, not FPJ11-AA (The DEC cpu chip not supplied with this board). M7900 RK611 U RK06/07 Unibus interface, hex M7901 RK611 U RK06/07 register module, hex M7902 RK611 U RK06/07 control module, hex M7903 RK611 U RK06/07 data module, hex M7904 RK611 U RK06/07 drive interface module, hex M7651 DRV1W-S Q General-Purpose DMA Interface? M7255 RK11-D U RK05 disk control module M7256 RK11-D U RK05 registers module (data path) M7257 RK11-D U RK05 bus control module M8200-YA DMC11-R U 1-line sync DDCMP microprocessor with 1K control/ ROM (point-to-point, used with M8201). M8201 DMC11 U 1-line sync DDCMP DMA, EIA & V35 line board ---end---- From mpichs75 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 19 22:16:45 2003 From: mpichs75 at yahoo.com (michael pichs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: "ONTV"/dan veeneman Message-ID: <20030318193154.34372.qmail@web41206.mail.yahoo.com> just wrote to say that I really appreciated the info about ONTV and the link. I was wondering how I can attain a unit for myself. Nothing more than nostalgia reasons, but i'd really like to have one. If you can help me out Dan, please let me know. thank you, -mike From kshuff at fast.net Wed Mar 19 22:17:05 2003 From: kshuff at fast.net (-ks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Ultrix-32 Manuals available **FREE** Message-ID: <200303182303.h2IN3lu11196@huey.classiccmp.org> Subject say's it all, I have a complete manual set for Ultrix-32, 15 binders in total. Just pay shipping or come and get them. I really don't want to see them end up in a dumpster. While we're on the subject, I also have Ultrix 3.1 (VAX) and Ultrix 4.2a (RISC) on TK50 tape, same deal, pay shipping or come and get em. I think there is also a system backup of a MicroVAX II running 3.1. Items are located in Allentown, PA if you care to pick them up. -- Keith Huff kshuff@fast.net From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Wed Mar 19 22:22:06 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Equipment I don't need, make an offer.... In-Reply-To: from "Musicman" at Mar 18, 2003 06:29:24 PM Message-ID: <200303190812.h2J8Ce6q029036@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> I recently acquired some equipment, and don't really need it for my collection. So I thought I'd offer it on here, where there's a good chance someone else may want it. What looks like an x-term server by Tektronix, called TekXpress model XP26. Network Computing Devince Inc. x-term, Display Station Model #NCD88K (includes mouse and keyboard). Sparcstation 1 (includes mouse and keyboard). Marty From Roberto.Jardini at rtsi.ch Wed Mar 19 22:22:42 2003 From: Roberto.Jardini at rtsi.ch (Roberto.Jardini@rtsi.ch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: make a copy bootable TK50 tape Message-ID: <2F5C551EBF05D2118E9900805FF5B515028FFC3F@erab.rtsi.ch> Hallo I'm new with Ultrix-32 os on Microvax II. I need to make a copy of the bootable diagnostics tape for the MicroVax II. The device I have is TK50 TAPE DRIVE. I search a command (like disckopy in DOS) that can perform a copy in Ultrix-32 OS. Can you help me? Many thanks ****************************************************** Visit: http://www.rtsi.ch This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@rtsi.ch From c.morris at townsqr.com Wed Mar 19 22:23:03 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 74F582 Message-ID: <005101c2ee54$09e01860$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> It appears to be an 8-bit ALU. Couldn't find a data sheet from Fairchild (who bought National Semiconductor's logic line), Philips, or anyone! Signetics is no longer in the TTL business, I believe. The only things I can come up with are: pspice.metropoliglobal.com/pspice/docs/DIGITAL.PDF ALU 74F582 74F582S TTL 74F582 Octal, with Parity Generator Checker http://www.s-direktnet.de/homepages/sangmeister/daten/ics/icg74.htm NSC 74F582 and: http://www.egm-electronics.com/listen/ic.htm 74F582N SIG 87 DIP I'd be interested to know where anyone does come up with a data sheet. -Charles >Does anyone know what this is? It's on a board with six 74LS181's and >two 74F582, as well as some static RAM and a ton of other TTL logic. -- From doc at docsbox.net Wed Mar 19 22:23:23 2003 From: doc at docsbox.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: SUN computer part numbers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030319172819.3a8fc31c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > Anybody know of a good site where I can look up some SUN part numbers? I picked up a bunch of loose SUN cards and I'm trying to id them. I have numbers like 270-1388-04 (made by Ross Technology, has 2 ea 7c601, 7c602 and 7c605 ICs), 270-1672-04 (a 13W3 video card), 270-1686-09 (a large motherboard). Try http://www.sunhelp.org/info-ref.php -- Doc Shipley || MDR Consulting, Inc. || Pray for peace Austin, Texas || From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Mar 19 22:23:45 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3640s available in C. Florida In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030319223730.21bfd0ae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure if it is marked Symbolics. I don't actually have one. Maybe someone else here knows. Thanks, David On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 10:37 PM, Joe wrote: > If I find one. Is it marked Symbolics? I didn't see any Symbolics > monitors or keyboards but I'll look closer when I go back. > > Joe > > At 05:53 PM 3/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >> I''m not interested in an entire machine but could you grab a mouse >> for >> me? >> >> On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 05:33 PM, Joe wrote: >> >>> I don't know if anyone is interested in these and I know nothing >>> about them but I spotted two of them in a scrap place yesterday. If >>> someone wants them come and get 'em. (They'll be cheap.) They haven't >>> been there more than a couple of days and look like they're in decent >>> condition. I'll guide you to them but I have NO way to move, store, >>> or >>> ship them. >>> >>> Joe From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Mar 19 22:48:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: make a copy bootable TK50 tape In-Reply-To: <2F5C551EBF05D2118E9900805FF5B515028FFC3F@erab.rtsi.ch> Message-ID: If you've installed the examples subsets /usr/examples/itc/itc.c, when compiled, will do exactly that. On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 Roberto.Jardini@rtsi.ch wrote: > Hallo > > I'm new with Ultrix-32 os on Microvax II. > I need to make a copy of the bootable diagnostics tape for the MicroVax II. > The device I have is TK50 TAPE DRIVE. > I search a command (like disckopy in DOS) that can perform a copy in > Ultrix-32 OS. > Can you help me? > > Many thanks > > > ****************************************************** > Visit: http://www.rtsi.ch > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@rtsi.ch > -- From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 20 01:35:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: IBM 5360 available in Nashville, Tennesee Message-ID: Here is a complete IBM 5360 system available in Nashville, Tennesee. As always, please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: MSlarve@aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 11:07:32 EST From: MSlarve@aol.com To: archive@vintage.org Subject: ibm 5360 i just bought a building with an IBM 5360 with 2 printers monitor and key board.. it takes floppy disks that are about 5" and are in a box type holder ... it was all working when unhooked about 2 years ago ... and has been stored in a good environment.. is it an antique computer of interest?. Do you have any information ...Do they still use it anywhere. is it worth anything? thank you ... Mike -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From franco.tassone at inwind.it Thu Mar 20 02:28:00 2003 From: franco.tassone at inwind.it (Franco Tassone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Missing Base Kit Sistem Area Disk 1 in pro/venix 2.0 distribution (by DEC) Message-ID: <007101c2eeba$3dd51e20$3b0810ac@emsargroup.com> Hi all, I have a Pro/venix 2.0 distribution (the one by DEC) and was going to reinstall it on my PRO/350. Unfortunatelly I discoveded that the Base Kit Sistem Area Disk 1 was bad. Anyone in this list can help me in supplying this floppy image ? Thanks in advance. Franco. From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Thu Mar 20 04:01:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: "The Art of Electronics" is priceless and amazing! Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF362@OHM1003A> I discovered this one 15 years ago after failing to comprehend analogue electronicsa in my first year at university. It made everything clear in one read! As a coincidence, I just got an email off Winfield Hill the other day asking me about my website. I congratulated him on his book! paul -----Original Message----- From: jpero@sympatico.ca [mailto:jpero@sympatico.ca] Sent: 19 March 2003 20:23 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: "The Art of Electronics" is priceless and amazing! I just got my book after over 4 weeks of waiting since the order placed. I wondered why I didn't get it eariler because it's so good compared to my college electronics technology textbooks! Cheers, Wizard From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Thu Mar 20 04:37:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 74F582 Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF364@OHM1003A> It seems that the 74F583 is quite similar to the '582 (of course many of the 74TTL series ICs do have near equivalents like this). I too have struggled to find anything on the '582, but a datasheet for Philip's version of the '583 can be found here: http://www.system.perm.ru/escpdf/Philips/74F583_1.pdf, a reasonably good collection of datasheets in Russia. cheers, paul -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Charles E. Morris [mailto:c.morris@townsqr.com] Sent: 19 March 2003 20:14 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: 74F582 It appears to be an 8-bit ALU. Couldn't find a data sheet from Fairchild (who bought National Semiconductor's logic line), Philips, or anyone! Signetics is no longer in the TTL business, I believe. The only things I can come up with are: pspice.metropoliglobal.com/pspice/docs/DIGITAL.PDF ALU 74F582 74F582S TTL 74F582 Octal, with Parity Generator Checker http://www.s-direktnet.de/homepages/sangmeister/daten/ics/icg74.htm NSC 74F582 and: http://www.egm-electronics.com/listen/ic.htm 74F582N SIG 87 DIP I'd be interested to know where anyone does come up with a data sheet. -Charles >Does anyone know what this is? It's on a board with six 74LS181's and >two 74F582, as well as some static RAM and a ton of other TTL logic. -- From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Thu Mar 20 05:04:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 74F582 Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF365@OHM1003A> Sorry, I was talking rubbish in that last post. The 74F582 is more likely to be similar to the 74F382, a datasheet for which may be found here: http://umwnt1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/locos/images/74f382.pdf I'll carry on looking for the '582 in my books at home however. paul -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Charles E. Morris [mailto:c.morris@townsqr.com] Sent: 19 March 2003 20:14 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: 74F582 It appears to be an 8-bit ALU. Couldn't find a data sheet from Fairchild (who bought National Semiconductor's logic line), Philips, or anyone! Signetics is no longer in the TTL business, I believe. The only things I can come up with are: pspice.metropoliglobal.com/pspice/docs/DIGITAL.PDF ALU 74F582 74F582S TTL 74F582 Octal, with Parity Generator Checker http://www.s-direktnet.de/homepages/sangmeister/daten/ics/icg74.htm NSC 74F582 and: http://www.egm-electronics.com/listen/ic.htm 74F582N SIG 87 DIP I'd be interested to know where anyone does come up with a data sheet. -Charles >Does anyone know what this is? It's on a board with six 74LS181's and >two 74F582, as well as some static RAM and a ton of other TTL logic. -- From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Mar 20 07:49:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable References: Message-ID: <3E79C600.8070307@Vishay.com> AUI cable? - Oh yes, I do remember: when I was at the University of Darmstadt, getting those four pairs and all the shields into the shell of a 15-pin connector was the hardest test somebody had to stand before she/he was allowed to "officially" join the network/cabling crew. Tony, we should have met earlier: I would have been happy to cut a couple of feet from the reel for you. We found that there was a difference between |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| and other brands: the DEC cables had the common shield isolated from the individual shields of the pairs, while at least some other manufacturers had them connected. I still have a self-made one connecting my 11/23-PLUS to a new-fangled BNC mini transceiver, because even the mini transceiver would not fit under the hood when directly plugged into the DEQNA (Ethernet) bulkhead at the back of the BA23 box. Andreas Tony Duell wrote: >>What is DEC AUI Cable? ie: What is it used for, and what kind of wire is >>inside? > > > AUI = Attachment Unit Interface (IIRC), the interface between an ethernet > controller and the MAU (Media Access Unit). It's the cable for an > ethernet tranceiver, therefore. > > At one time ethernet transceivers were not built into the > computer/interface card. They were semi-permanently fixed to the coaxial > cable. And you used an AUI cable to connect the computer to the transceiver. > > It's 4 twisted pairs. 3 are identical and carry the 3 transceiver signals > (transmit data, receive data, collision detect). The other pair is > thicker wires (officially) and carries the 12V power supply to the > transceiver. > > A few years about I had to make up one of these cables because my PERQ > uses 4-40 screw-down jackposts and not the normal slidelock posts on the > ethernet connectors. Getting a couple of metres of the cable was the > hardest part of the job! > > -tony -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 20 08:12:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... References: <000101c2ee6a$dcc2e760$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <3E79CC0F.BC050142@comcast.net> Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > Gents, I have in my posession an Industrial VAX 630. > > > > Seen here... > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes > > > > I was curious, can anyone give more info on it? > > Is there much more to say? It's a MicroVAX II in > a BA213 chassis. Assuming you've listed all the > cards, I don't see any video cards of any description > there at all. I'm not sure what that connector is > hooked up to (and the link doesn't work). > Hmm, gotta fix that. here's the close up picture of the plate that's hanging out, for KVM... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-001F.JPG > Where is the KVM? The connector looks like one of > the ones from a VAXstation II, but it has to connect > to a QVSS or QDSS to be of much use! > This box was used for designing/testing new insutrial strength keyboards, mice, trackballs, and joysticks for the VAX equipment... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Mar 20 09:25:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <200303191945.h2JJjCPV028395@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> Message-ID: <000101c2eef4$d348a6e0$0100a8c0@benchbox> I wouldn't toss them quite yet. There might be another use for them. I am imagining hanging one off the isa bus of an Atari or Amiga. :-) Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of DAVID L. ORMAND Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 4M expanded memory cards >I could sure use some. Are they the nine-chip sort? Oops! I guess this wasn't clear enough. These are OLD cards, ISA expanded memory cards for 286es. Not SIMMs/SIPPs. I can't really imagine anyone wanting them, but I thought I'd ask before I toss. From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Mar 20 09:34:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 In-Reply-To: <3E78713F.EBBF7C0@compsys.to> Message-ID: <000301c2eef6$04242b80$0100a8c0@benchbox> How'd you DO that man? The website has no links at all on it. Are there other secret archives there? Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jerome H. Fine Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:32 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Mar 20 09:39:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) In-Reply-To: <001c01c2ee8c$31e77640$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <000401c2eef6$bff81fb0$0100a8c0@benchbox> Man, I've used the same old beater 15watt Radio Shack soldering iron for years and years. Its great for ic's and connectors. Not so great for connectors on boards or for power supply stuff. I keep a beater 35watt radio shack iron around when I need to unglue my 15watter from a ground plane.... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Holley Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:56 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration) The Metcal system that I have has a PS2E-01 power supply and a RM3E soldering iron. It uses STTC and SMTC tips. I have no documentation on this unit and the PS2E is not mentioned on the Metcal site. How old is this unit? I used a Weller WTPCN for twenty years and it is fine for 1980 vintage through hole components. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 09:39:39 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards References: <000101c2eef4$d348a6e0$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <002201c2eef5$dce9c020$0400fea9@game> I dont think they would work in an Amiga/Atari. Im sure somebody with a AT/286 would want one for the heck of it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:24 AM Subject: RE: 4M expanded memory cards > I wouldn't toss them quite yet. There might be another use for them. I > am imagining hanging one off the isa bus of an Atari or Amiga. :-) > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of DAVID L. ORMAND > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 4M expanded memory cards > > >I could sure use some. Are they the nine-chip sort? > > Oops! I guess this wasn't clear enough. These are OLD cards, ISA > expanded memory cards for 286es. Not SIMMs/SIPPs. I can't really > imagine anyone wanting them, but I thought I'd ask before I toss. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 20 09:45:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <002201c2eef5$dce9c020$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <20030320154213.15257.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > I dont think they would work in an Amiga/Atari. Im sure somebody with a > AT/286 would want one for the heck of it. They would work on an Amiga with my GG2 Bus+ and a (user written) driver. The card maps ISA memory and I/O space into a 1MB AUTOCONFIG space. It would be cretinously slow. -ethan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:24 AM > Subject: RE: 4M expanded memory cards > > > > I wouldn't toss them quite yet. There might be another use for them. > > I am imagining hanging one off the isa bus of an Atari or Amiga. :-) From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Mar 20 09:48:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Subject: new finds In-Reply-To: <20030320020424.HVHL23955.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <000501c2eef8$11526db0$0100a8c0@benchbox> OUCH OUCH OUCH! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:00 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Subject: new finds On Wednesday 19 March 2003 17:46, Tony Duell wrote: I usually follow this advice and now my garage is overflowing. In one recent case the person mentioned a few early Olivettis and an IBM portable as well as several 386 vintage machines. I agreed to take them all to save him the bother of hauling the 386s to the scrapper. Well he ended doing some house cleaning the weekend before and got rid of the old machines after putting aside the 386s for me. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 20 09:50:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: "The Art of Electronics" - edition differences? Message-ID: <20030320154721.10991.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> To those that have "The Art of Electronics", is there much difference between the first and second editions? Is one "preferable" to the other for those of us with Classic interests? Did they take anything we would find useful out in the editing process? -ethan From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 09:56:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards References: <20030320154213.15257.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003101c2eef8$337682a0$0400fea9@game> I remeber some brand of memory addon cards were prised back in the 286 era, Intel Aboveboard comes to mind. I am looking at an add for one of those suckers in PC Sources, Jan 1991. 2mb to 16mb (using 30 pin simms) Error Detection and correction LIM-EMS 44.0 compatible $395 for 4mb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:42 AM Subject: Re: 4M expanded memory cards > --- TeoZ wrote: > > I dont think they would work in an Amiga/Atari. Im sure somebody with a > > AT/286 would want one for the heck of it. > > They would work on an Amiga with my GG2 Bus+ and a (user written) driver. > The card maps ISA memory and I/O space into a 1MB AUTOCONFIG space. > > It would be cretinously slow. > > -ethan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:24 AM > > Subject: RE: 4M expanded memory cards > > > > > > > I wouldn't toss them quite yet. There might be another use for them. > > > I am imagining hanging one off the isa bus of an Atari or Amiga. :-) From cb at mythtech.net Thu Mar 20 10:11:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: >I remeber some brand of memory addon cards were prised back in the 286 era, >Intel Aboveboard comes to mind. I think I might have a box of Intel AboveBoard's. I'm not sure how many, or how much ram is on each, but I seem to recall that I have a file box full of them tucked away under my parts shelves somewhere. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 10:23:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards References: Message-ID: <007901c2eefc$0b1526a0$0400fea9@game> Guess Im not the only pack rat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Re: 4M expanded memory cards > >I remeber some brand of memory addon cards were prised back in the 286 era, > >Intel Aboveboard comes to mind. > > I think I might have a box of Intel AboveBoard's. I'm not sure how many, > or how much ram is on each, but I seem to recall that I have a file box > full of them tucked away under my parts shelves somewhere. > > -chris > From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 10:27:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:25 2005 Subject: Old Monitors Message-ID: <008201c2eefc$822f4360$0400fea9@game> Anybody have an old Nec Multisync 3d, CTX ad-1970, or IDEK MF-5015 multisync monitor you dont need? Was looking for one thats compatible with amiga 1200 resolutions and works on 15khz horizontal. Its a pain in the ass having a C64/C128/Amiga 500/Amiga 1200 and only one 1084S monitor to go around. Located in Ohio. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Mar 20 10:29:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:26 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: AboveBoards could also be used with an 8088. I had a 2MB added to a TurboXT clone so I could run Windows 3.0. -----Original Message----- From: chris [mailto:cb@mythtech.net] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:08 AM To: Classic Computer Subject: Re: 4M expanded memory cards >I remeber some brand of memory addon cards were prised back in the 286 era, >Intel Aboveboard comes to mind. I think I might have a box of Intel AboveBoard's. I'm not sure how many, or how much ram is on each, but I seem to recall that I have a file box full of them tucked away under my parts shelves somewhere. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 20 10:30:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:26 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <003101c2eef8$337682a0$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <20030320162717.41294.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > I remeber some brand of memory addon cards were prised back in the 286 > era, Intel Aboveboard comes to mind. Those were definitely "top shelf" in the day. > I am looking at an add for one of those suckers in PC Sources, Jan 1991. > 2mb to 16mb (using 30 pin simms) Error Detection and correction LIM-EMS > 44.0 compatible $395 for 4mb That's *much* cheaper than they would have been, say, in 1986 or 1987... see if you can find an ad willing to _quote_ prices (most will say "$CALL")but I remember when the U.S. Dept of Commerce was leveling dumping charges against Asian DRAM vendors - the on-the-street price of an ordinary 41256 (256Kx1) went from $3.50 to $17.50, virtually overnight. But then, I also remember when a later ripple in RAM prices took a 1MB 30-pin parity SIMM from $25 each to $45 each (fortunately for me, I bought my AMD 386-DX40 + 4MB at the old price - $150 for motherboard and chip, $100 for the RAM). 1988, IIRC, maybe a little later. If the boards you are looking at used SIMMs, not DIPs, they are much later in the evolution of the product. By then, they would have been used as a last-gasp upgrade of an old machine; new machines would have taken SIMMs on the motherboard (and probably wouldn't have had a 286 chip, either ;-) -ethan From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Thu Mar 20 10:42:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:26 2005 Subject: "The Art of Electronics" - edition differences? Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF368@OHM1003A> Ethan, There is a lot added (it's about half as thick again as the first edition). I seem to remember there was a little stuff taken out, but I sold the first edition years ago now and can't remember what it was - it certainly wasn't anything that I miss. I'd recommend "upgrading" as there is quite a bit of practical stuff which is very useful in the second edition. The lists of op-amps and suchlike is a bit outdated now though, so it'd be nice to have a third edition! -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: 20 March 2003 15:47 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: "The Art of Electronics" - edition differences? To those that have "The Art of Electronics", is there much difference between the first and second editions? Is one "preferable" to the other for those of us with Classic interests? Did they take anything we would find useful out in the editing process? -ethan From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 10:55:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:26 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards References: <20030320162717.41294.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009501c2ef00$728432a0$0400fea9@game> I remember paying close to $400 for 4 x 4mb 30 pin sims for my 386/40 homebuilt machine so it would scream using windows 3.0. Funny how memory prices have gone to hell over the last few years. What was the point of the ISA memory addon boards, people running windows/286 and OS/2 1.x/2.x? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: Re: 4M expanded memory cards > --- TeoZ wrote: > > I remeber some brand of memory addon cards were prised back in the 286 > > era, Intel Aboveboard comes to mind. > > Those were definitely "top shelf" in the day. > > > I am looking at an add for one of those suckers in PC Sources, Jan 1991. > > 2mb to 16mb (using 30 pin simms) Error Detection and correction LIM-EMS > > 44.0 compatible $395 for 4mb > > That's *much* cheaper than they would have been, say, in 1986 or 1987... > see if you can find an ad willing to _quote_ prices (most will say > "$CALL")but I remember when the U.S. Dept of Commerce was leveling > dumping charges against Asian DRAM vendors - the on-the-street price of > an ordinary 41256 (256Kx1) went from $3.50 to $17.50, virtually overnight. > > But then, I also remember when a later ripple in RAM prices took a 1MB > 30-pin parity SIMM from $25 each to $45 each (fortunately for me, I > bought my AMD 386-DX40 + 4MB at the old price - $150 for motherboard > and chip, $100 for the RAM). 1988, IIRC, maybe a little later. > > > If the boards you are looking at used SIMMs, not DIPs, they are much > later in the evolution of the product. By then, they would have been > used as a last-gasp upgrade of an old machine; new machines would have > taken SIMMs on the motherboard (and probably wouldn't have had a 286 > chip, either ;-) > > -ethan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 20 11:10:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:26 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards References: <20030320162717.41294.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <009501c2ef00$728432a0$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3E79F497.7060104@jetnet.ab.ca> TeoZ wrote: > I remember paying close to $400 for 4 x 4mb 30 pin sims for my 386/40 > homebuilt machine so it would scream using windows 3.0. > Funny how memory prices have gone to hell over the last few years. Notice how memory prices still seem to drop only for the new machines and not the old ones. Well we can't upgprade your bloat-a-matic 2002 machine as they do't make the chips for it. Well buy a Vapor-ware 7, 2003 machine and well give you a $50 rebate on your next memory upgrade. Sigh. From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Mar 20 11:32:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:26 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... In-Reply-To: <3E79CC0F.BC050142@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000601c2ef06$3affcc80$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Hmm, gotta fix that. here's the close up picture of the > plate that's hanging out, for KVM... > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-> 001F.JPG I know what that bulkhead connector is for, but without a video system to plug it into it's not much more than just a connector! From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 11:33:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:27 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards References: <20030320162717.41294.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <009501c2ef00$728432a0$0400fea9@game> <3E79F497.7060104@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001401c2ef05$cbb97880$0400fea9@game> Well that depends. I remeber a years or 2 ago 128mb 5v fpm memory dimms for the mac dropped to $19.99 each from a certain vender and they used to cost quite a bit more then that. 16mb 30 pin sims dropped to under $10 each $32mb 72 pin simms are like $7 new some places Some memory was never in wide scale use like the 128mb EDO ECC dimms I use in my dual PPro server. I want a 4mb upgrade for my Apple 4/600 laser printer (its proprietary) and havnt found any for under $40 PC66/100/133 memory is very cheap these days (but there is alot of buggy memory around) The only stuff thats expensive to buy new would be ancient dram chips, sipps, various VRAM. These same items are cheap used IF you can find them. I am tempted to cut off a memory chip from an old PCI video card to put it into my Gravis Ultrasound Max sound card because finding a .5mb chip anywhere else would be too expensive or hard to find. If you looking for some newer memory check out www.pricewatch.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:04 PM Subject: Re: 4M expanded memory cards > TeoZ wrote: > > I remember paying close to $400 for 4 x 4mb 30 pin sims for my 386/40 > > homebuilt machine so it would scream using windows 3.0. > > Funny how memory prices have gone to hell over the last few years. > > Notice how memory prices still seem to drop only for the new machines > and not the old ones. Well we can't upgprade your bloat-a-matic 2002 > machine as they do't make the chips for it. Well buy a Vapor-ware 7, > 2003 machine and well give you a $50 rebate on your next memory upgrade. > Sigh. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Thu Mar 20 12:20:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:27 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <001401c2ef05$cbb97880$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <3061ED65-5B00-11D7-B45B-00050287688D@colourfull.com> On the talk of memory cards, I have a unique one. Don't know if anyone has ever seen one of these: http://idisk.mac.com/colourfull_creations/Public/micron.jpg Back when making silicon could be fun. Only 2Meg though, so could be off topic. ;) Rob Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 20 13:18:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:27 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... In-Reply-To: <3E78E5E7.1423E9EE@comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > Sent: 19 March 2003 21:49 > To: ClassicCMP > Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... > > > Gents, I have in my posession an Industrial VAX 630. > > Seen here... > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes > > I was curious, can anyone give more info on it? From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 20 13:18:44 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <001701c2ed70$5dfd5a00$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 18 March 2003 17:04 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace > > I also need a component layout for the Ace - can someone with an Ace and a > digital camera please remove the large metal heatsink from their Ace and > send me a close-up picture of the mainboard, especially the area directly > underneath the main RAMs (near the two ROMs). That speaker looks very speccy-like to me; I'd forgotten it was that small! Anyway, here y'go. ~540k images: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ace-front.jpg http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ace-back.jpg Make yer own machine from those :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 20 13:19:06 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout In-Reply-To: <3E6521B3.5080607@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi folks, Got this from a contractor working for the navy; how he found me before he found any other place that collects DEC stuff I don't know :) Replies to email address he's given me (suttonmr@navair.navy.mil), particularly as I don't know what the DRMO is! Pity there won't be any disks in that haul 'cos I could really do with some RZ29Bs....oh well. 'Course, it might also just be PCs. ------ realname: CECIL FINLEY email: ccfinley@bellsouth.net message: I'm a contractor for the US gov't and they are in the process of getting rid of a load of DEC equipement. You could get these items through the DRMO, but you'd have to pick them up and ship them personally. Contact: suttonmr@navair.navy.mil for further details. ------ cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 20 13:19:38 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <009501c2ef00$728432a0$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <20030320191543.69386.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > I remember paying close to $400 for 4 x 4mb 30 pin sims for my 386/40 > homebuilt machine so it would scream using windows 3.0. > Funny how memory prices have gone to hell over the last few years. As someone already pointed out - prices only drop drastically per meg for new technologies. For old memory, the price drops slowly, then it rises a bit once it's old enough to be legacy. Try and find some largish 30-pin memory now - it's not the $25-$40/meg it once was, but some places still get a lot for it (not that they *sell* a lot ;-) > What was the point of the ISA memory addon boards, people running > windows/286 and OS/2 1.x/2.x? Yes, that and productivity apps that needed more space than 640K (spreadsheets, CAD packages, etc.) plus games. There were plenty of DOS games that needed more than ~500K. -ethan From laura.lacagnina at attbi.com Thu Mar 20 13:20:53 2003 From: laura.lacagnina at attbi.com (Laura La Cagnina) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: CDC 924 console in 'The Terminator' (fwd) Message-ID: <006a01c2ef07$b8554240$6501a8c0@attbi.com> I have an Ampex 924 w/speakers they are in an oak cabinets I know that the circa was 1960 Ampex only made home systems for 3 years I am looking to see if anyone would really appreciate buying this working model Laura I have learned that to ignore the facts does not change the facts! From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 20 13:22:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: "The Art of Electronics" - edition differences? In-Reply-To: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF368@OHM1003A> Message-ID: <20030320191700.55407.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Hills, Paul" wrote: > Ethan, > > There is a lot added (it's about half as thick again as the first > edition). That's nice. > I seem to remember there was a little stuff taken out... Hmm... if anyone on the list knows, I'd love to hear what it might be. > The lists of op-amps and suchlike is a bit outdated now though, so it'd > be nice to have a third edition! Funny you should ask... when trolling on half.com, I found a reference to and "out of stock" 2004 edition. There just might be one in the pipe. -ethan From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Mar 20 13:31:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Holy cow, what a find... Message-ID: <200303201128260703.57EA246F@192.168.42.129> It cost a few bucks to get, but I know what these beasties can do... What beastie? Oh, sorry... an Ancot DCS-216FT standalone SCSI bus analyzer, in pretty darn good shape. Snagged it from Ebay for $250. Considering that I've rarely seen them going for less than a grand, I think I got a decent enough deal. One of the tech support guys at Ancot was kind enough to send me the user's manual. Now, if I can just get a differential adapter as well... Heck, maybe I can build one... we'll see. 73 de KC7GR -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 20 14:02:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards References: Message-ID: <3E7A1D38.B489EDA@comcast.net> chris wrote: > > >I remeber some brand of memory addon cards were prised back in the 286 era, > >Intel Aboveboard comes to mind. > > I think I might have a box of Intel AboveBoard's. I'm not sure how many, > or how much ram is on each, but I seem to recall that I have a file box > full of them tucked away under my parts shelves somewhere. > > -chris > Yep, I've got an Intel ISA AboveBoards too. 8 30 pin SIMM slots. Currently is loaded with 1MB SIMMs. Anybody want it? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 20 14:13:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... References: Message-ID: <3E7A2095.4F93D9DB@comcast.net> Witchy wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > > > > > > Seen here... > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes > > > > >From what I remember it's a MicroVAX II in a BA415 chassis, ie VAX3400 style > box but without DSSI; the pix show pretty standard MVII components, though > that 15pin m/f breakout box looks odd... Well, it was probably just a spare part tossed on there. This box was shipped solely for the purpose of testing specialty keyboard/mouse hardware. ...and this reply, since they are related... Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > Hmm, gotta fix that. here's the close up picture of the > > plate that's hanging out, for KVM... > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-001F.JPG > > I know what that bulkhead connector is for, but without > a video system to plug it into it's not much more > than just a connector! Well, I do have in my parts bin, 2 cables that look like they might work. Both have 3 BNC (RGB) connectors for video, but one has a box on it, with PS/2 style mouse & keyboard; while the other has only the RJ-? style DEC keyboard connector. I have the monitor from my DEC 3000/400 (3 BNC connectors) and a DEC VRT17-HA (5 BNC) currently displaying green mono from my VAXStation 3100. Would I be safe trying one of those cable/monitor combinations on the VAX? > >From the original pics it looks like it plugs in > somewhere inside - I just don't think that it's > the DEQNA that it plugs into. So where does it > connect (you didn't list any video cards in the > original message). > > Antonio I'll have to go and take a look to see what the card says... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From cb at mythtech.net Thu Mar 20 14:25:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: > Yep, I've got an Intel ISA AboveBoards too. 8 30 pin SIMM slots. >Currently is loaded with 1MB SIMMs. Anybody want it? Humm... then maybe what I have isn't "AboveBoard"'s. I'm pretty sure the ones I have don't have SIMM slots. I think they are just a whole mess of DIP chips sitting in sockets right on the board. I think some of them are even multiple layers deep (a daughter card attached to the main card to add more chips). I thought they were labeled "INTEL AboveBoard", but maybe I'm mistaken and they are some other memory upgrade board. I do know they are RAM upgrades and they are for ISA slots... that much I am sure about. Although I do (or did?), have one with SIMM slots for an MCA bus for PS/2's. I think I sent that to Larry when I sent him a bunch of 486 parts, but I'm not sure (like most of the rest of you, I just have piles of stuff... and I'm not always that good at keeping track of it) -chris From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Mar 20 14:30:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace References: Message-ID: <006101c2ef1f$7d9d9860$0100000a@milkyway> Witchy wrote: > That speaker looks very speccy-like to me; I'd forgotten it was that > small! Yeah, it's a 220 ohm squeeker. And I need to find a replacement... As if I don't have enough to do, what with the hole re-drilling and the track re-building... > Anyway, here y'go. ~540k images: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ace-front.jpg > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/ace-back.jpg Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou :-) Now I know where some of the buggered tracks go, the others are obvious. What interests me is the date on the left-hand side of the keyboard. Is that an assembly date of some sort? Hmm... Mine's got one too, but the isopropyl rinse has lightened the ink a bit. Anyway, thanks a lot Witchy. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for a knackered speccy. Or I could ask in comp.sys.sinclair, but I'm not that mad yet... Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 20 14:31:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... References: <000601c2ef06$3affcc80$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <3E7A248B.9DD2E5C4@comcast.net> Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > I know what that bulkhead connector is for, but without > a video system to plug it into it's not much more > than just a connector! > > >From the original pics it looks like it plugs in > somewhere inside - I just don't think that it's > the DEQNA that it plugs into. So where does it > connect (you didn't list any video cards in the > original message). Ahhh, here it is. Stamped in the edge/frame of the card it's connected to is M7602 YA. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Mar 20 14:47:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: Yes, these are AboveBoards. The one I had had DIP RAM chips. The ones with SIMMs must be more recent. -----Original Message----- From: chris [mailto:cb@mythtech.net] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:23 PM To: Classic Computer Subject: Re: 4M expanded memory cards > Yep, I've got an Intel ISA AboveBoards too. 8 30 pin SIMM slots. >Currently is loaded with 1MB SIMMs. Anybody want it? Humm... then maybe what I have isn't "AboveBoard"'s. I'm pretty sure the ones I have don't have SIMM slots. I think they are just a whole mess of DIP chips sitting in sockets right on the board. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Mar 20 14:52:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 References: <000301c2eef6$04242b80$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <3E7A294A.C1BF23B@compsys.to> >"Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > How'd you DO that man? The website has no links at all on it. Are > there other secret archives there? > I will be making all copies of the CD images from: > > ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ > > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ > > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Jerome Fine replies: Jay West was kind enough to set all that up. I had nothing to do with it - well I did make some suggestions! But Jay did everything else! THANK YOU Jay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From glenslick at hotmail.com Thu Mar 20 15:04:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Holy cow, what a find... Message-ID: I saw that one go by and it seemed like a good deal. But I've got a couple FuturePlus FS2230 SCSI probes to go along with the logic analyzers I have so I had to resist the urge to buy more hardware. > What beastie? Oh, sorry... an Ancot DCS-216FT standalone SCSI bus >analyzer, in pretty darn good shape. Snagged it from Ebay for $250. >Considering that I've rarely seen them going for less than a grand, I think >I got a decent enough deal. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Mar 20 15:10:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: <183.18898be6.2bab877c@aol.com> In a message dated 3/20/03 12:25:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, cb@mythtech.net writes: > I'm pretty sure the ones I have don't have SIMM slots. I think they are > just a whole mess of DIP chips sitting in sockets right on the board. I > think some of them are even multiple layers deep (a daughter card > attached to the main card to add more chips). > > I thought they were labeled "INTEL AboveBoard", They all are Intel AboveBoards. Intel made aboveboards that took 256K DIPs, 1 Meg DIPs and 30 pin SIMMs. They made 8 bit versions beside 16 bit versions. With the DIP Daughter board IIRC you could get 16 Meg of RAM on the card. Some of the 16 bit versions could be used in 8 bit slots. It was a very versatile line of cards for many years. An interesting side story. They came out with a 5 year warranty. Intel in Hillsboro, OR used to have employee sales where Intel employees could buy surplus and scrap at bargain basement prices. Several people bought some non working aboveboards that were failures from the production line. They then got turned in for warranty repair because they were less than 5 years old. Once Intel figured out what was going on that was the end of the employee garage sales. From that point on they shredded the production failures in Hillsboro. Paxton Astoria, OR From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 20 15:13:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 References: <000301c2eef6$04242b80$0100a8c0@benchbox> <3E7A294A.C1BF23B@compsys.to> Message-ID: <005701c2ef25$26ff7720$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > >"Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > > > How'd you DO that man? The website has no links at all on it. Not sure what you mean. Standard stuff. One point though, I really REALLY wish people who host "file transfer" sites would familiarize themselves with the apache directive "IndexOptions +NameWidth=*". > Are > > there other secret archives there? Umm most definitely - including sites under www.classiccmp.com :) From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 20 15:22:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 Message-ID: <006d01c2ef26$625db7e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> OMG how embarassing!.... ----- Original Message ----- > Umm most definitely - including sites under www.classiccmp.com :) *SIGH* that would be .org, not .com Jay "suffering from brainlock" West From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Mar 20 15:53:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards Message-ID: <20030379.44477@webbox.com> actually history wise, there was a memory specification called LIM (Lotus/Intel/Microsoft) that used a 16K/32K/64K memory slot in the 1 meg real memory region where the 8088 could access it to bank switch blocks of memory in and out of the window area. Lotus 123 was a big user of the Expanded Memory because of the typical size of spreadsheets would quickly eat up normal memory and require disk access that would slow down the spreadsheet even more. Memory boards that were referred to as extended memory were the ones that could be accessed by 286 and above processors by having the processor go into protected mode. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: Ethan Dicks >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 3/20/03 11:15:43 AM > --- TeoZ wrote: >> I remember paying close to $400 for 4 x 4mb 30 pin sims for my 386/40 >> homebuilt machine so it would scream using windows 3.0. >> Funny how memory prices have gone to hell over the last few years. > >As someone already pointed out - prices only drop drastically per meg for >new technologies. For old memory, the price drops slowly, then it rises >a bit once it's old enough to be legacy. Try and find some largish 30-pin >memory now - it's not the $25-$40/meg it once was, but some places still >get a lot for it (not that they *sell* a lot ;-) > >> What was the point of the ISA memory addon boards, people running >> windows/286 and OS/2 1.x/2.x? > >Yes, that and productivity apps that needed more space than 640K >(spreadsheets, CAD packages, etc.) plus games. There were plenty >of DOS games that needed more than ~500K. > >-ethan From alanp at snowmoose.com Thu Mar 20 16:09:00 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout Message-ID: <20030320220650.71EBE42C18@smtp-relay.omnis.com> DRMO is the group at a US military base responsible for taking care of surplused equipment. Some of it ends up being auctioned, for example, through web sites like www.govliquidation.com. Some of it ends up disposed of as scrap. alan ---Original Message--- From: cctech@classiccmp.org To: cctech@classiccmp.org,cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:05:15 -0000 Subject: RE: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout Hi folks, Got this from a contractor working for the navy; how he found me before he found any other place that collects DEC stuff I don't know :) Replies to email address he's given me (suttonmr@navair.navy.mil), particularly as I don't know what the DRMO is! Pity there won't be any disks in that haul 'cos I could really do with some RZ29Bs....oh well. 'Course, it might also just be PCs. ------ realname: CECIL FINLEY email: ccfinley@bellsouth.net message: I'm a contractor for the US gov't and they are in the process of getting rid of a load of DEC equipement. You could get these items through the DRMO, but you'd have to pick them up and ship them personally. Contact: suttonmr@navair.navy.mil for further details. ------ cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 20 16:46:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace References: <006101c2ef1f$7d9d9860$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <3E7A436A.2090609@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Yeah, it's a 220 ohm squeeker. And I need to find a replacement... As if I > don't have enough to do, what with the hole re-drilling and the track > re-building... > squeeker !? got mice problems. Can't you add a simple amp and drive a regular speaker? Ben. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 20 16:47:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Holy cow, what a find... In-Reply-To: from "Bruce Lane" at Mar 20, 2003 11:28:26 AM Message-ID: <200303202244.h2KMiKEJ014435@shell1.aracnet.com> > It cost a few bucks to get, but I know what these beasties can do... > > What beastie? Oh, sorry... an Ancot DCS-216FT standalone SCSI bus > analyzer, in pretty darn good shape. Snagged it from Ebay for $250. > Considering that I've rarely seen them going for less than a grand, > I think I got a decent enough deal. That was the sound of my jaw dropping! There is a certain major manufacturer of SCSI devices that I'm familiar with that only has two SCSI Bus Analyzers (and the FE that works on our equipment can never get one). So, I'd say that's a pretty good score! Zane From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Mar 20 17:12:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace References: <006101c2ef1f$7d9d9860$0100000a@milkyway> <3E7A436A.2090609@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <00c301c2ef36$21de89a0$0100000a@milkyway> ben franchuk wrote: >> Yeah, it's a 220 ohm squeeker. And I need to find a replacement... >> As if I don't have enough to do, what with the hole re-drilling and >> the track re-building... > squeeker !? got mice problems. A squeeker is generally defined as a speaker that can produce high frequency sounds really well, but is crap at reproducing low-frequency (bass) sounds. An example would be the piezo speaker in a laptop. > Can't you add a simple amp and drive a > regular speaker? Ben. Maybe. But that would be a kludge at best and I'd like to get my Ace to look reasonably original. Then again, there's always the Ace's earphone jack... And if I can get a speaker that's small enough, it's likely that the Ace's driver circuit could run it. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Mar 20 17:51:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <00c301c2ef36$21de89a0$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > ben franchuk wrote: > >> Yeah, it's a 220 ohm squeeker. And I need to find a replacement... > >> As if I don't have enough to do, what with the hole re-drilling and > >> the track re-building... > > squeeker !? got mice problems. > A squeeker is generally defined as a speaker that can produce high frequency > sounds really well, but is crap at reproducing low-frequency (bass) sounds. > An example would be the piezo speaker in a laptop. > > > Can't you add a simple amp and drive a > > regular speaker? Ben. > Maybe. But that would be a kludge at best and I'd like to get my Ace to look > reasonably original. Then again, there's always the Ace's earphone jack... > And if I can get a speaker that's small enough, it's likely that the Ace's > driver circuit could run it. How about a transistor radio sized matching (~5 --> 1) tranformer? You could glue that to the back of an 8 ohm speaker. > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > Peter Wallace From fixxxer23 at attbi.com Thu Mar 20 18:24:00 2003 From: fixxxer23 at attbi.com (fixxxer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: 220 ohm squeeker (was Re: Jupiter Ace) References: Message-ID: <007701c2ef3f$c98ffc70$0101a8c0@EVO2K2> Try an old pair of headphones, many use poly diaphragms for the acoustical output and the headset element should be about the right size (have a kid with a broken set of headphones that they used on their walkman style stereo?) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace > On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > ben franchuk wrote: > > >> Yeah, it's a 220 ohm squeeker. And I need to find a replacement... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 20 18:30:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: "The Art of Electronics" is priceless and amazing! In-Reply-To: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF362@OHM1003A> from "Hills, Paul" at Mar 20, 3 09:58:01 am Message-ID: > I discovered this one 15 years ago after failing to comprehend analogue > electronicsa in my first year at university. It made everything clear in one > read! I've recomended this book before, and I'll recomend it again. It's one of the books I use very frequenctly when I'm designing. It's clear, understandavble, and pretty much correct. The only thing which puzzles me is why it's not on the 'recomended reading' list for every electronics engineering course in the country ! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 20 18:31:46 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:28 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable In-Reply-To: <3E79C600.8070307@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Mar 20, 3 02:45:36 pm Message-ID: > AUI cable? - Oh yes, I do remember: when I was at the University of > Darmstadt, getting those four pairs and all the shields into the shell > of a 15-pin connector was the hardest test somebody had to stand before I got the type of shell that's made in 2 halves, so I didn't have to feed the cable through a small hole... > she/he was allowed to "officially" join the network/cabling crew. > > Tony, we should have met earlier: I would have been happy to cut a > couple of feet from the reel for you. That's exactly what happeend it the end -- I found a friendly network-cabling person and he gave me a couple of metres of the cable. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 20 18:32:23 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: "The Art of Electronics" - edition differences? In-Reply-To: <20030320154721.10991.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 20, 3 07:47:21 am Message-ID: > To those that have "The Art of Electronics", is there much difference > between the first and second editions? Is one "preferable" to the I have both... The 2nd edition has several new sections -- on micropower designs, on SMPSUs, and so on. For classic-computer people it even includes a schematic of the Tandy 2000 PSU... There was very little taken out IMHO. The main change was in the microprocessor sections -- the 1st edtiion was based on 8-bit chips (I forget which one -- 8085? Z80?), the 2nd edtion is based on the 8086/8088 (and the lab manual covers the 68008) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 20 18:35:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <00c301c2ef36$21de89a0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Mar 20, 3 11:12:08 pm Message-ID: > ben franchuk wrote: > >> Yeah, it's a 220 ohm squeeker. And I need to find a replacement... > >> As if I don't have enough to do, what with the hole re-drilling and > >> the track re-building... > > squeeker !? got mice problems. > A squeeker is generally defined as a speaker that can produce high frequency > sounds really well, but is crap at reproducing low-frequency (bass) sounds. > An example would be the piezo speaker in a laptop. Actually, what about using a piezo speaker here (one of those metal disk-type things you can get from Maplin). Possibly with a 220R resistor in parallel if the driver circuit wants to see a finite DC load resistance? I won't sound very good, but then Aces are not known for their musical performance :-) -tony From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Mar 20 18:42:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Old Monitors References: <008201c2eefc$822f4360$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: <017401c2ef42$937c92d0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:19 AM Subject: Old Monitors > Located in Ohio. Where on Ohio? Don't have a monitor, but interested in other Buckeyes... Bob From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Mar 20 19:03:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Classic items up for auction Message-ID: <200303201700200175.5919FB4C@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, Another shameless plug. I've posted another bunch of auctions on E-pay. The first one's a collection of Emulex and PDP-11 hardware reference handbooks. I think there's one for the VAX in there too. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3519&item=3408289058 Owners of Motorola MVME188A systems would probably find this one useful. It's the distribution tapes and manuals for the System V/88 Base OS, Network Extensions, and the tapes and manuals for Uniplex and Looking Glass as well. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3408291146 These next three are, in sequence: A tech manual for the VAX 4000-200, a TK50 tape of the MicroVAX II Customer Diagnostics, and a manual set for the TI-58/59 programmables. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3408295497 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3408296865 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3294&item=3014465606 Thanks again for putting up with the occasional ad. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Mar 20 19:15:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Large Collection of DEC & other License PAKs: Any takers? Message-ID: <200303201712530383.59257961@192.168.42.129> Hi, folks, Hey... I've got an item here that I really didn't want to put up for auction. I'd much rather pass it on to a fellow Classiccmp'er who can use it. It's a file folder, nearly a half-inch thick, crammed full of old DEC and Wollongong license PAKs for all kinds of products, including VMS 5.x, DECNet, and other assorted goodies. First person to E-mail me directly (kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com, or kc7gr at qsl dot net), with an offer of $15.00 (includes postage), can have the entire pile. I'll go by time/date stamps on any responses to determine who's message got here first. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Mar 20 19:36:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: C19 cordsets was Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable References: <040b01c2cd55$d228d200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <1532.4.20.168.139.1044479242.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <01d801c2cd8a$cdb4bbf0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <025801c2ef4a$1da70a60$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert F. Schaefer" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:52 PM Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3800 Power Cable > I came across http://www.quail.com/NACords/index.html a few days ago. They > seem to have the cords I need, both the C15 (notched) and C19 (horizontal > prongs). I haven't called then yet to check proces and quantities, but I'm > taking next week off to have a baby, so I expect to have lots of Copious > Spare Time in which to take care of things. :) A few days ago, I purchased a set of three `IBM NetFinity 7000 Server Rack Power Cord's from ebays' pcsurplusonline.com. They arrived today, and seem to be unused. They have the three horizontal prongs on the computer end, and on the other end is a Twistlock connector. Two are L6-20 (250V 20A) and one is L5-20 (120V 20A), both are 18GA SJT with moulded connectors. The seller didn't mention the different types and possibly didn't know, but as my Netfinity is autosensing I don't really care. Total cost was $19.95 including shipping. Bob From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Mar 20 19:37:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: License PAKs claimed. Message-ID: <200303201734500541.5939923D@192.168.42.129> Zane Healy was the first to E-mail me, and is the lucky winner of the LicensePakStak. ;-) I'll bet he'd be willing to share if asked nicely. Thanks to the group, again, for putting up with my occasional burst of adverts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 20 19:53:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Gone! Re: Symbolics 3640s available in C. Florida In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030319223730.21bfd0ae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030320205409.46df97ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You'll all be happy to know that both of the Symbolics systems have a new home. One the people on this list came and got them today. I hadn't checked them closely and we were happy to find that they appeared to be intact and all the drives and cards were still installed. However we didn't find any terminals, keyboards, mice or other external devices. Joe From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Mar 20 19:59:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 Message-ID: <02d001c2ef4d$22f6b8f0$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> Check out this Lisa one on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406407504 From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Mar 20 20:22:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Two Great Finds today Message-ID: <02eb01c2ef50$5356ba10$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> Picked up a Heathkit 3400-A microcomputer trainer and two SGI CD's one was IRIX 5.1.1 and the other was Fortran 77 compiler 4.0. Got it all for $18 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 20 20:42:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Two Great Finds today In-Reply-To: <02eb01c2ef50$5356ba10$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030320214432.3227cbac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:19 PM 3/20/03 -0600, Keys wrote: >Picked up a Heathkit 3400-A microcomputer trainer and two SGI CD's one was >IRIX 5.1.1 and the other was Fortran 77 compiler 4.0. Got it all for $18 > Nice finds! sheesh, all I got today was a Ampro Little Board P6D (333 MHz PII). Plus two HP 1000s (one E-series and one F series). Plus the Floating Point math unit and a HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader. I guess I could include the two Symbolics 3640s that I helped Mike rescue. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 20 20:42:54 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader?? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030320214626.32272eda@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody have specs and interface connector pinout and signal levels for this? I got the PT reader but couldn't find the cable. Joe From aek at spies.com Thu Mar 20 21:14:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader Message-ID: <200303210310.h2L3AxJL022681@spies.com> > Anybody have specs and interface connector pinout and signal levels for this? The cable pinout is on page 16 of http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/21xx/interfaces/12597A-002.pdf From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 21:26:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Old Monitors References: <008201c2eefc$822f4360$0400fea9@game> <017401c2ef42$937c92d0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <001c01c2ef58$9f1af620$0400fea9@game> Youngstown 1/2 way between Cleveland OH and Pittsburg PA TZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert F. Schaefer" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Old Monitors > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TeoZ" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:19 AM > Subject: Old Monitors > > > > > Located in Ohio. > > Where on Ohio? Don't have a monitor, but interested in other Buckeyes... > > Bob From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Mar 20 21:36:01 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: TI-99A ?? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030320223249.00ba97a8@popmail.voicenet.com> I have the opportunity to acquire a TI-99A. What is the difference from a TI-99/4A? Are the TI-99A's rare? What should I pay for one? From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Thu Mar 20 22:15:01 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 In-Reply-To: <02d001c2ef4d$22f6b8f0$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> References: <02d001c2ef4d$22f6b8f0$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030321041219.927B92C108@www.fastmail.fm> Hmmm...I thought it was 2003 & not 1983. The guy is paying damn near MSRP for this thing! > Check out this Lisa one on eBay > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406407504 > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 20 22:44:01 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Two Great Finds today References: <3.0.6.16.20030320214432.3227cbac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01c2ef62$f7539a40$ca62d6d1@DOMAIN> From: Joe > > I guess I could include the two Symbolics 3640s that I helped Mike rescue. > Roundtrip complete. Thank you Joe. I've wanted a lisp machine for a looong time. I've got many questions but I'll do some reading first... And I'll post some more details shortly. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 20 22:46:00 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: paging Alex Knight References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030320223249.00ba97a8@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <001501c2ef63$32c44700$ca62d6d1@DOMAIN> Please email me. Ready to ship that calc. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 20 23:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: TI-99A ?? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030320223249.00ba97a8@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have the opportunity to acquire a TI-99A. > > What is the difference from a TI-99/4A? > > Are the TI-99A's rare? > > What should I pay for one? I have never heard of this model. That's not to say it doesn't exist, but are you sure the model number is correct? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 20 23:05:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 In-Reply-To: <20030321041219.927B92C108@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, David Vohs wrote: > Hmmm...I thought it was 2003 & not 1983. The guy is paying damn near MSRP > for this thing! It's about the right value. There is a lot of demand from the Mac fanatics, and there are less than a dozen original Lisa 1's in existence. This one was almost immaculate. All the software and the fact that it works is a major bonus. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 20 23:57:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 References: Message-ID: <000d01c2ef6d$a6359b80$0400fea9@game> If I had bill gate's money I would have purchased it. Then again I would put together the best classic arcade from space invaders to the best of the current coin operated machines first. Im the type who would spend millions on electronics before I purchased 1 Van Gogh. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 12:02 AM Subject: Re: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 > On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, David Vohs wrote: > > > Hmmm...I thought it was 2003 & not 1983. The guy is paying damn near MSRP > > for this thing! > > It's about the right value. There is a lot of demand from the Mac > fanatics, and there are less than a dozen original Lisa 1's in existence. > This one was almost immaculate. All the software and the fact that it > works is a major bonus. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From oldcomp at cox.net Fri Mar 21 00:52:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 References: <02d001c2ef4d$22f6b8f0$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E7AB53E.6060008@cox.net> Before considering the effects of inflation, it only took twenty years to break even! -Bryan Keys wrote: >Check out this Lisa one on eBay >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406407504 From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Fri Mar 21 07:16:00 2003 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 References: Message-ID: I was talking to my father about this. Back in the late 80's-early 90's the company he was working for had several *pallets* of these that were free for the taking. Just about all of it wound up going to scrap -- nobody wanted any of it. Needless to say, he feels a little nauseous right now. I'll bet there are many similar woeful stories. dc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 07:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader In-Reply-To: <200303210310.h2L3AxJL022681@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321081612.46cfc176@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Damm. You're good Al! Joe At 07:10 PM 3/20/03 -0800, you wrote: >> Anybody have specs and interface connector pinout and signal levels for this? > >The cable pinout is on page 16 of http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/hp/21xx/interfaces/12597A-002.pdf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 07:19:22 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: id these HP cards? HP 3000? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321082320.434fb566@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Can anyone tell me what these cards are for? HP 30145-60001 marked ATP AIB, HP 26069-60001 marked DEV HP-IB TRANSLATOR, HP 31262-69001 marked CHAN GIC. These measure 14"x 11" and have four edge connectors along the back edge. I searched th enet and didn't find mush info except that a couple of re-sellers have some for sale but they don't provice any additional info. One site did indicate that one of these might be for the HP 3000. Joe From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 21 08:14:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 In-Reply-To: <000d01c2ef6d$a6359b80$0400fea9@game> from TeoZ at "Mar 21, 3 00:49:32 am" Message-ID: <200303211422.GAA07926@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > If I had bill gate's money I would have purchased it. If I had Bill Gates' money, I'd be doing a lot of things ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The fact that it works is immaterial. -- L. Ogborn ------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 21 08:54:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader?? References: <3.0.6.16.20030320214626.32272eda@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01c2efb9$5bad56b0$ca09dd40@oemcomputer> Now that's a great find I can never seem to find readers or punches on my searches? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader?? > Anybody have specs and interface connector pinout and signal levels for this? I got the PT reader but couldn't find the cable. > > Joe From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Mar 21 09:31:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: id these HP cards? HP 3000? In-Reply-To: Joe's message of "Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:23:20" References: <3.0.6.16.20030321082320.434fb566@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200303211520.h2LFKkua050502@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > Can anyone tell me what these cards are for? HP 30145-60001 > marked ATP AIB, HP 26069-60001 marked DEV HP-IB TRANSLATOR, HP > 31262-69001 marked CHAN GIC. These measure 14"x 11" and have four > edge connectors along the back edge. I searched th enet and didn't > find mush info except that a couple of re-sellers have some for > sale but they don't provice any additional info. One site did > indicate that one of these might be for the HP 3000. These cards probably came from an HP 3000 4X/5X/6X/70. ATP is "Advanced Terminal Processor", an asynchronous terminal interface. I'm not sure what part of it you have. GIC is "General I/O Channel", an HP-IB interface. I'm thinking the "HP-IB TRANSLATOR" is a board that connects to the GIC and provides some other sort of interface, in particular a parallel differential line printer interface. It's been a while but I think we had a couple of these in a 64/68/70 when it had HP 2617 and 2619 printers attached. -Frank McConnell From intdoc at charter.net Fri Mar 21 09:40:00 2003 From: intdoc at charter.net (Internet Doctor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Summasketch+ graphics tablet Message-ID: <002301c2efbf$b799d7e0$6400a8c0@FamilyPC> My name is Bob, I have a Summasketch+. The 4pin square connector is for the power pack. I do not know what the RJ11 connector is for. I have been trying to locate drivers for this pad to try it with my WinXP. No luck there, only found Win9x and NT. I was hoping that I could use a magnetic pen with it. However, from what I am reading, it doesn't sound like that will work. If anyone know what I need to make this work, please let me know. I hate to trash it. I have 4 boys and my Net time is very limited, so you are welcome to email me at intdoc@charter.net. Thanks all! From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 21 09:41:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 In-Reply-To: <000d01c2ef6d$a6359b80$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, TeoZ wrote: > If I had bill gate's money I would have purchased it. Heh. If I had Bill Gates' money, I think mostly I'd be laughing at Bill Gates. -- Doc Shipley || MDR Consulting, Inc. || Pray for peace Austin, Texas || From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Mar 21 09:45:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Summasketch+ graphics tablet In-Reply-To: <002301c2efbf$b799d7e0$6400a8c0@FamilyPC> from "Internet Doctor" at Mar 21, 03 10:37:01 am Message-ID: <200303211539.KAA01825@wordstock.com> And thusly Internet Doctor spake: > > My name is Bob, I have a Summasketch+. The 4pin square connector is for the > power pack. I do not know what the RJ11 connector is for. I have been > trying to locate drivers for this pad to try it with my WinXP. No luck > there, only found Win9x and NT. I was hoping that I could use a magnetic > pen with it. However, from what I am reading, it doesn't sound like that > will work. If anyone know what I need to make this work, please let me > know. I hate to trash it. I have 4 boys and my Net time is very limited, > so you are welcome to email me at intdoc@charter.net. Thanks all! > Bob, Have you tried using the NT drivers? Cheers, Bryan From wonko at 4amlunch.net Fri Mar 21 10:29:00 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Visio Stencils for PDP/VAX/AXP Message-ID: <20030321111701.F26766@zill.net> does anyone have Visio Stencils for all the cool old DEC kit? that would be great. if not, i guess it's time to get to work. ;) -brian -- "I'd say don't quit your day job, but you're pretty lousy at that too." -Bender From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 21 10:40:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Summasketch+ graphics tablet Message-ID: The RJ11 is for the puck (4 button) or pen stylus (two button). I would try both the Win9X and NT drivers. You might get a message complaining that the driver is not certified, but that is often just M$ FUD. -----Original Message----- From: Internet Doctor [mailto:intdoc@charter.net] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 9:37 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Summasketch+ graphics tablet My name is Bob, I have a Summasketch+. The 4pin square connector is for the power pack. I do not know what the RJ11 connector is for. I have been trying to locate drivers for this pad to try it with my WinXP. No luck there, only found Win9x and NT. I was hoping that I could use a magnetic pen with it. However, from what I am reading, it doesn't sound like that will work. If anyone know what I need to make this work, please let me know. I hate to trash it. I have 4 boys and my Net time is very limited, so you are welcome to email me at intdoc@charter.net. Thanks all! From intdoc at charter.net Fri Mar 21 10:53:01 2003 From: intdoc at charter.net (Internet Doctor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Summasketch+ graphics tablet References: Message-ID: <005b01c2efc9$f66b0930$6400a8c0@FamilyPC> Any idea where I could find a puck or pen? Or info on making something? Bob _______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: RE: Summasketch+ graphics tablet > The RJ11 is for the puck (4 button) or pen stylus (two button). > > I would try both the Win9X and NT drivers. You might get a message > complaining that the driver is not certified, but that is often just M$ FUD. From jim at smithy.com Fri Mar 21 11:33:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: VS 85/90 Message-ID: <1048267211.15598.16.camel@server.smithy.com> I'm trying to find a Wang VS-85 or VS-90. Any condition. These are rather large systems, the VS-85 is about the size of a washing machine, and the VS-90 is a little bit wider than the VS 85. If anybody runs across one in their adventures, please contact me. I used to have a VS90, many years ago. Now that I have space, I'd like to find one, if there are any still out there. -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 21 11:39:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Summasketch+ graphics tablet Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3408315413&category=3680 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3408320937&category=3680 -----Original Message----- From: Internet Doctor [mailto:intdoc@charter.net] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 10:50 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Summasketch+ graphics tablet Any idea where I could find a puck or pen? Or info on making something? Bob _______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: RE: Summasketch+ graphics tablet > The RJ11 is for the puck (4 button) or pen stylus (two button). > > I would try both the Win9X and NT drivers. You might get a message > complaining that the driver is not certified, but that is often just M$ FUD. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 11:58:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: HP 97935 Media Module (Disk Pack) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321084132.45efd5b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Picked up two of these yesterday. Anyone know what drive they fit? They have seven platters and are roughly 12" in diameter. Marked 404 Mb. Joe From vance at neurotica.com Fri Mar 21 12:33:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: 4M expanded memory cards In-Reply-To: <20030320191543.69386.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > What was the point of the ISA memory addon boards, people running > > windows/286 and OS/2 1.x/2.x? > > Yes, that and productivity apps that needed more space than 640K > (spreadsheets, CAD packages, etc.) plus games. There were plenty of DOS > games that needed more than ~500K. I have a system for which I once bought an EMS memory board to assist when SMARTDRV first came out. I loaded my extra-large cache into EMS and it made my slow disk scream. It rocked. Peace... Sridhar From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 21 12:35:06 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout In-Reply-To: <20030320220650.71EBE42C18@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: Well, I hope it all gets claimed - can't have DEC stuff being scrapped can we! Unless its the PCs of course. adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Alan Perry > Sent: 20 March 2003 22:07 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout > > > DRMO is the group at a US military base responsible for taking care of > surplused equipment. Some of it ends up being auctioned, for example, > through web sites like www.govliquidation.com. Some of it ends up > disposed of as scrap. > > alan > > ---Original Message--- > From: cctech@classiccmp.org > To: cctech@classiccmp.org,cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:05:15 -0000 > Subject: RE: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout > > Hi folks, > > Got this from a contractor working for the navy; how he found me before > he > found any other place that collects DEC stuff I don't know :) > > Replies to email address he's given me (suttonmr@navair.navy.mil), > particularly as I don't know what the DRMO is! Pity there won't be any > disks > in that haul 'cos I could really do with some RZ29Bs....oh well. > 'Course, it > might also just be PCs. > > ------ > realname: CECIL FINLEY > email: ccfinley@bellsouth.net > message: I'm a contractor for the US gov't and they are in the process of > getting rid of a load of DEC equipement. You could get these items > through > the DRMO, but you'd have to pick them up and ship them personally. > Contact: > suttonmr@navair.navy.mil for further details. > ------ > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From Arkanus at t-online.de Fri Mar 21 12:37:00 2003 From: Arkanus at t-online.de (Arkanus@t-online.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Atari PC motherboards Message-ID: <3E7B186A.8010002@t-online.de> Hello (1. If I'm in the wrong place - sorry / 2.My English is terrible I know) I own an old PC4. It is still running well. My question to you: Does someone know the jumper settings?????????? I searched for all jumpers on the board and found 12. One of it is pink (JP10). My system only got 1MB of RAM. Now I added 4 more RAM. But in the BIOS they are disabled. How can I activate them? Hope you can help me in that way... :) Regards, Joerg From rhaffly at cablenet-va.com Fri Mar 21 12:38:44 2003 From: rhaffly at cablenet-va.com (Bob Haffly) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Looking for pointer Message-ID: <002e01c2efc1$c34e9970$6400a8c0@FamilyPC> Brian, I have not loaded any drivers yet. I planned on doing that when I was more sure of the pointer issue. I figured that I would not be able to tell if the drivers are working if I do not have a pointer. I have a Win98 machine I can try loading the drivers on. However, still the pointer question. If I can not find a pointer or info on how to make one soon, Anyone want a Summasketch+? By the way, long story about the "Internet Doctor" thing... Bob From rhaffly at cablenet-va.com Fri Mar 21 12:40:29 2003 From: rhaffly at cablenet-va.com (Bob Haffly) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: RDRAM chips Message-ID: <005201c2efc5$d06019f0$6400a8c0@FamilyPC> I am interested in the chips. Contact me. intdoc@charter.net Thank You! Bob From garyvau at yahoo.com Fri Mar 21 12:42:16 2003 From: garyvau at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros Message-ID: <20030321170524.52438.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Just trying to the question about the different types of Kaypros. This is a list of machines KayPro made. Kaypro II Kaypro 10 Kaypro IV Kaypro 4 Kaypro 2 Kaypro 2X Kaypro Robie Kaypro 4X Kaypro 12X Kaypro 1 Kaypro 16 Kaypro PC Kaypro 2000 (laptop) I believe this covers all of the computers they made. I am guessing the person on the message section is trying to put together a collection of different KayPros Gary From bernd at kopriva.de Fri Mar 21 12:45:00 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Seeking for Coprocessor boards for IBM compatibles Message-ID: <200303211839.h2LId1u40025@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, i'm still looking for coprocessor boards for IBM compatibles (AT-BUS and/or PCI) ... At the moment, i'm specially interested in - Definicon DSI-32 The last one that i saw was offered on eBay some months ago, but unfortunately, Al Kossow grabed that one :-( - Z8000 "Trump Card" (Ciarcia) I never saw an offering for that card. In 1984, when that card was build, i did not have an IBM compatible (and i didn't have the money to even think to buy that card) ... but i may be interested in any other card ... I appreciate any hints ! Thanks Bernd BTW: I'm still looking for documentation/software for my YARC ProTran and Sprinter boards ... Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Mar 21 12:46:47 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout Message-ID: <21030380.38286@webbox.com> don't be surprised if the lowly Rainbow is worth something one day even if it is a PC... Steve >--- Original Message --- >From: "Witchy" >To: >Date: 3/21/03 1:17:08 AM > Well, I hope it all gets claimed - can't have DEC stuff being scrapped can >we! Unless its the PCs of course. > >adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of Alan Perry >> Sent: 20 March 2003 22:07 >> To: cctech@classiccmp.org >> Subject: RE: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout >> >> >> DRMO is the group at a US military base responsible for taking care of >> surplused equipment. Some of it ends up being auctioned, for example, >> through web sites like www.govliquidation.com. Some of it ends up >> disposed of as scrap. >> >> alan >> >> ---Original Message--- >> From: cctech@classiccmp.org >> To: cctech@classiccmp.org,cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:05:15 -0000 >> Subject: RE: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout >> >> Hi folks, >> >> Got this from a contractor working for the navy; how he found me before >> he >> found any other place that collects DEC stuff I don't know :) >> >> Replies to email address he's given me (suttonmr@navair.navy.mil), >> particularly as I don't know what the DRMO is! Pity there won't be any >> disks >> in that haul 'cos I could really do with some RZ29Bs....oh well. >> 'Course, it >> might also just be PCs. >> >> ------ >> realname: CECIL FINLEY >> email: ccfinley@bellsouth.net >> message: I'm a contractor for the US gov't and they are in the process of >> getting rid of a load of DEC equipement. You could get these items >> through >> the DRMO, but you'd have to pick them up and ship them personally. >> Contact: >> suttonmr@navair.navy.mil for further details. >> ------ >> >> cheers >> >> -- >> adrian/witchy >> www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum >> www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 21 12:49:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Atari PC motherboards In-Reply-To: <3E7B186A.8010002@t-online.de> Message-ID: <3E7B6CA7.5514.CA6B7753@localhost> > I own an old PC4. It is still running well. > My question to you: Does someone know the jumper settings?????????? > I searched for all jumpers on the board and found 12. One of it is pink > (JP10). > My system only got 1MB of RAM. Now I added 4 more RAM. But in the BIOS > they are disabled. How can I activate them? As far as I remember, the PC4 was just good for one (1) MB of RAM. I'll check into that tonight. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 13:00:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader?? In-Reply-To: <000b01c2efb9$5bad56b0$ca09dd40@oemcomputer> References: <3.0.6.16.20030320214626.32272eda@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321135607.4687dec2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I seldom find them and they're usually in sorry shape. Joe At 08:51 AM 3/21/03 -0600, you wrote: >Now that's a great find I can never seem to find readers or punches on my >searches? >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:46 PM >Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader?? > > >> Anybody have specs and interface connector pinout and signal levels for >this? I got the PT reader but couldn't find the cable. >> >> Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 13:01:49 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:29 2005 Subject: Look at this - Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321135101.116f8b4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > >Gore Joins Apple Board > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest >organization in the world--the United States government--as >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 13:11:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Symbolics Re: Two Great Finds today In-Reply-To: <000b01c2ef62$f7539a40$ca62d6d1@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20030320214432.3227cbac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321141441.4687b812@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:33 PM 3/20/03 -0500, you wrote: >From: Joe > >> >> I guess I could include the two Symbolics 3640s that I helped Mike >rescue. >> > >Roundtrip complete. Thank you Joe. I've wanted a lisp machine for a looong >time. I've got many questions but I'll do some reading first... And I'll >post some more details shortly. > > >;) >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > Pictures! We want pictures! Joe :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 13:12:54 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: odd Data General stuff Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321141520.4d7fe18e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a couple of odd DG parts yesterday. One is a "Paddle Board". Copywrited 1974. It's about 5" x 1 1/2" and has an edge connector on one side and a bunch of small individual wires soldered to it. The wires are about 18" long and have small number tags on them and appear to have been used to connect to multiple small devices. The other piece is a round wiring cable with a DB-25M connector on one end and a male and female HP-IB(?) connector on the other. The cable is black and about 6' long. Anyone know what these are for? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 13:17:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: UFG: PLCC socket Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321142159.467fdccc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Up For Grab: Textool/3M 264-5086 64 pin PLCC ZIF-type socket. A few weeks ago someone here was complaining that they couldn't find any PLCC sockets. I found one yesterday and grabbed it. The person that gives me the best story about why they need it can have it. It's soldered to a small circuit and both are mounted on an aluminium plate about 4" x 8". Postage should be minimal. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 21 13:30:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Old .MAC files from MS-DOS Message-ID: <200303211927.h2LJRIiP025850@shell1.aracnet.com> I've been digging through my old floppies looking for some *OLD* datafiles, and I ran across some "Star Fleet Battles" Files from the old SFB GEnie forum. I vaguely remember that .MAC files were some sort of Graphics file, but what sort? Does anything modernish read them? Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 21 13:32:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: from "Joe" at Mar 21, 2003 01:51:01 PM Message-ID: <200303211928.h2LJSoS6026011@shell1.aracnet.com> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth > >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest > >organization in the world--the United States government--as > >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." > >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK > > > > > Joe > Yep, I view this as and MacOS X as good reasons to give up on Apple. Zane From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 21 13:40:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <200303211928.h2LJSoS6026011@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Joe" at Mar 21, 2003 01:51:01 PM Message-ID: <3E7B78CB.8210.CA9AE308@localhost> > > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth > > >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest > > >organization in the world--the United States government--as > > >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." > > >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK > > Joe > Yep, I view this as and MacOS X as good reasons to give up on Apple. Hey, the LC475 and Performa 630 ar the best Macs ever, and I'll keep them working... and what's wrong with having the man who 'took initiative in creating the internet' (he never daid he invented it) playing a role at the company which invented the GUI :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 21 13:49:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Old .MAC files from MS-DOS Message-ID: They could be MacPaint, which can be read by PaintShop Pro (shareware), among other programs. -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:27 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Old .MAC files from MS-DOS I've been digging through my old floppies looking for some *OLD* datafiles, and I ran across some "Star Fleet Battles" Files from the old SFB GEnie forum. I vaguely remember that .MAC files were some sort of Graphics file, but what sort? Does anything modernish read them? Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 21 13:56:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Visio Stencils for PDP/VAX/AXP In-Reply-To: <20030321111701.F26766@zill.net> Message-ID: <20030321195307.47256.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Hechinger wrote: > does anyone have Visio Stencils for all the cool old DEC kit? that would > be great. if not, i guess it's time to get to work. ;) I wish. If you do have to crank some out, would you be willing to share? What were you planning on creating (if you had to)? I would love to see each of the 12-bit CPUs and the most common devices of the day (PC04, RK05, TU-55, TU-56, etc.) Some, like the DF-32, would be easy... they have blank faceplates for the rack. :-) Thanks, -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 13:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321150228.467f1fbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I keep finding a lot of boards made by SMS and I'm wondering if they're worth picking up. A lot of them seem to be out of DEC systems and/or 8" floppy drive controllers that are used with DEC stuff. I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. Any thoughts on this? Joe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 21 14:01:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: References: <3E7B78CB.8210.CA9AE308@localhost> Message-ID: <3E7B7D11.19136.CAAB95E0@localhost> > > > Yep, I view this as and MacOS X as good reasons to give up on Apple. > > Hey, the LC475 and Performa 630 ar the best Macs ever, and I'll keep > > them working... and what's wrong with having the man who 'took > > initiative in creating the internet' (he never daid he invented it) > > playing a role at the company which invented the GUI :) > Didn't Xerox or someone like that invent the GUI? Don't be so fussy! Everybody knows the Lisa was the first computer with an GUI (*1) ! And Steve Jobs did it (*2) ! Gruss H. (*1) To avoide the discusion, yes I know this is not true. (*2) No, I don't think there is a single inventor (as it is with most things) but rather a string of ideas and trial and error (in fact, first comes error, then trial and finaly conviction) Englebart has as much part in it as PARC or thousands of other people and places. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Mar 21 14:07:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader?? References: <3.0.6.16.20030320214626.32272eda@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E7B70A9.3060100@gifford.co.uk> Joe wrote: > Anybody have specs and interface connector pinout and > signal levels for this? Might have -- I have the 2748 reader and some cables, and some manuals (for the 2100S). -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Mar 21 14:11:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3E7B78CB.8210.CA9AE308@localhost> Message-ID: <00c801c2efe5$54c151e0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> > Hey, the LC475 and Performa 630 ar the best Macs ever, and I'll > keep them working... and what's wrong with having the man who > 'took initiative in creating the internet' (he never daid he > invented it) playing a role at the company which invented the > GUI :) I thought he was joining Apple, not Xerox. . . Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 14:14:03 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3E7B78CB.8210.CA9AE308@localhost> References: <200303211928.h2LJSoS6026011@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321151241.4207d7c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:40 PM 3/21/03 +0100, Gruss wrote: >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board > >> > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth >> > >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest >> > >organization in the world--the United States government--as >> > >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." >> > >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK >> > Joe > >> Yep, I view this as and MacOS X as good reasons to give up on Apple. > >Hey, the LC475 and Performa 630 ar the best Macs ever, and I'll >keep them working... and what's wrong with having the man who >'took initiative in creating the internet' (he never daid he >invented it) playing a role at the company which invented the >GUI :) Sorry to disagree with you but you're wrong. I personally saw an interview with him where he claimed that he "invented the internet". I don't think I need to give my opinion of the idiot here! Frankly I can't imagine why Apple would want him. Joe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 21 14:24:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Al Gore, The Internet and the Mouse... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321151241.4207d7c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3E7B78CB.8210.CA9AE308@localhost> Message-ID: <3E7B82F2.12864.CAC28AD4@localhost> > >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board > >> > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth > >> > >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest > >> > >organization in the world--the United States government--as > >> > >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." > >> > >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK > >> Yep, I view this as and MacOS X as good reasons to give up on Apple. > >Hey, the LC475 and Performa 630 ar the best Macs ever, and I'll > >keep them working... and what's wrong with having the man who > >'took initiative in creating the internet' (he never daid he > >invented it) playing a role at the company which invented the > >GUI :) > Sorry to disagree with you but you're wrong. I personally > saw an interview with him where he claimed that he "invented > the internet". I don't think I need to give my opinion of > the idiot here! Well, lets skip this, although I belive the world would be better of at the moment with a different US president... anyway. What I remember from READING the interview was above content. So your memory might be better than mine. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 21 14:36:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321150228.467f1fbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030321203347.3104.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > Hi, > > I keep finding a lot of boards made by SMS and I'm wondering if > they're worth picking up. A lot of them seem to be out of DEC systems > and/or 8" floppy drive controllers that are used with DEC stuff. How expensive? $5? $50? > I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this > one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an > intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # > 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. I'm not so familiar with SMS products... what connectors are on the edge of the board? -ethan > > Any thoughts on this? > > Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 21 14:40:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321151241.4207d7c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030321203555.97895.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > At 08:40 PM 3/21/03 +0100, Gruss wrote: > >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > Frankly I can't imagine why Apple would want him. Why did Commodore put Alexander Haig on their board? I remember a press release at the time that said they were looking for a "take- charge kind of guy." -ethan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 21 14:53:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <20030321203555.97895.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321151241.4207d7c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E7B88D1.13849.CADD336A@localhost> > > At 08:40 PM 3/21/03 +0100, Gruss wrote: ROTFL. > > >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > Frankly I can't imagine why Apple would want him. > Why did Commodore put Alexander Haig on their board? I remember a > press release at the time that said they were looking for a "take- > charge kind of guy." Excuse my ignorance, but who is Alexander Haig? I rember some Nato guy named haig, but I'm not shure. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 21 14:57:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 21, 2003 12:33:47 PM Message-ID: <200303212054.h2LKslia029775@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this > > one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an > > intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # > > 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. > > I'm not so familiar with SMS products... what connectors are on the > edge of the board? I've never seen an SMS product that was actually Q-Bus. The SMS systems I used to have had all the I/O on a *big* board that the Q-Bus backplane connected into. The only Q-Bus boards you had to have were CPU and Memory. Zane From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Mar 21 15:11:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Old .MAC files from MS-DOS References: <200303211927.h2LJRIiP025850@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <01cd01c2efee$43e485a0$0100000a@milkyway> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've been digging through my old floppies looking for some *OLD* > datafiles, and I ran across some "Star Fleet Battles" Files from the > old SFB GEnie forum. I vaguely remember that .MAC files were some > sort of Graphics file, but what sort? Does anything modernish read > them? Sounds like they might be Macpaint files - IrfanView (www.irfanview.com iirc) should be able to read them. Failing that, most any version of Paintshop Pro can read them too. I know PSP4 and above can, PSP3.x almost certanly, I'm not sure about anything earlier than that though. Irfanview is a nice little freeware image manipulation tool to keep around anyway - it loads in less than a second; PSP, Photoshop, et al take around ten seconds to load. And it's less than 1MB in size - what more could you want? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 21 15:29:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3E7B88D1.13849.CADD336A@localhost> Message-ID: <20030321212633.62262.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > > At 08:40 PM 3/21/03 +0100, Gruss wrote: > > ROTFL. Gotta love stupid parsers. > > > >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > > Frankly I can't imagine why Apple would want him. > > > Why did Commodore put Alexander Haig on their board? I remember a > > press release at the time that said they were looking for a "take- > > charge kind of guy." > > Excuse my ignorance, but who is Alexander Haig? I rember some > Nato guy named haig, but I'm not shure. For the foreign audience, Al Haig was the U.S. Secretary of State when President Reagan was shot. He achieved infamy by declaring at a press conference "I'm in charge." The problem is that according to the Constitution, the line of succession goes from the President to the V.P. to the Speaker of the House, The President Pro Tem of the Senate, _then_ to the Secretary of State. http://www.jeanlouie.com/Politics/Miscellaneous/I%20Am%20in%20Charge.htm http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html In any case, to keep this back on a classic thread, here's a link to an announcement calling for shareholders to make a move against the Commodore board, mentioning Haig by name... http://www.fhi-berlin.mpg.de/amiga/ar/ar118/p1-5.HTML -ethan From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 21 15:51:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Commodore V364 at $3050 on eBay Message-ID: <00a101c2eff3$874347a0$7308dd40@oemcomputer> The guy is asking $5000 Buy-It-Now for this machine. He has an offer of $3050 but it's too low. It's getting too expensive. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3407279765&category=4193 From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Mar 21 15:55:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? Message-ID: In a message dated 3/21/03 1:01:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > I've never seen an SMS product that was actually Q-Bus. The SMS systems I > used to have had all the I/O on a *big* board that the Q-Bus backplane > connected into. The only Q-Bus boards you had to have were CPU and Memory. > > I think you got one of those SMS Q-Bus Boxes from me. They are an interesting system. A small QBus system piggybacked into a SMS Hard/Floppy drive box. I remember one with 8" drives and one with 5" drives, rack mount approximately 2U in size. SMS made all sorts of Q-Bus interface cards. I think they might have gotten their start with 8" floppy controllers but I am not sure. I know they made serial port cards. Some SMS cards are marketable. I think they made a SCSI. I would think the floppy controllers because they supported other types of drives than DEC. I will have to look into my box and see what I have left. I don't think there is a lot of support out there. Paxton Astoria, OR From kth at srv.net Fri Mar 21 16:10:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Boot images for xmess emulator Message-ID: <3E7B93D9.7000602@srv.net> Looking for CP/M boot disks for the xmess emulator, in particular the Kaypro 2 boot images. Tried 22disk with my Kaypro disks on several systems, but none of them would read them :-(. From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 21 16:14:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Commodore V364 at $3050 on eBay References: <00a101c2eff3$874347a0$7308dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <011401c2eff5$e32b7fe0$0400fea9@game> Well if its the only one that works I think the price isnt that bad. People want $1000 or more for a working 3dfx Voodoo 6000 video card and there are at least a dozen working copies of that and they are only a few years old. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:47 PM Subject: Commodore V364 at $3050 on eBay > The guy is asking $5000 Buy-It-Now for this machine. He has an offer of > $3050 but it's too low. It's getting too expensive. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3407279765&category=4193 From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 21 16:34:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Commodore V364 at $3050 on eBay In-Reply-To: <00a101c2eff3$874347a0$7308dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3E7BA096.3886.CB3A0BE8@localhost> > The guy is asking $5000 Buy-It-Now for this machine. He has an offer of > $3050 but it's too low. It's getting too expensive. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3407279765&category=4193 Well, judgeing from the text of this and his other auctions, the Guy seams to be a prety decent idiot owning a huge bunch of Commo stuff. A clear case of the WOW-RARE syndrom. Anyway. H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 21 16:39:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <20030321170524.52438.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Gary wrote: > Just trying to the question about the different types of Kaypros. > This is a list of machines KayPro made. > Kaypro II > Kaypro 10 > Kaypro IV > Kaypro 4 > Kaypro 2 > Kaypro 2X > Kaypro Robie > Kaypro 4X > Kaypro 12X > Kaypro 1 > Kaypro 16 > Kaypro PC > Kaypro 2000 (laptop) > I believe this covers all of the computers they made. I am guessing the > person on the message section is trying to put together a collection of > different KayPros > Gary But before the Kaypro II was the KayComp of which only a limited number were made. - don From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 21 17:03:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <20030321212633.62262.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Hans Franke wrote: > > > > At 08:40 PM 3/21/03 +0100, Gruss wrote: > > > > ROTFL. > > Gotta love stupid parsers. > > > > > >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > > >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > > > Frankly I can't imagine why Apple would want him. > > > > > Why did Commodore put Alexander Haig on their board? I remember a > > > press release at the time that said they were looking for a "take- > > > charge kind of guy." > > > > Excuse my ignorance, but who is Alexander Haig? I rember some > > Nato guy named haig, but I'm not shure. Same guy. He was a retired general when the event below occurred. - don > For the foreign audience, Al Haig was the U.S. Secretary of State when > President Reagan was shot. He achieved infamy by declaring at a press > conference "I'm in charge." The problem is that according to the > Constitution, the line of succession goes from the President to the V.P. > to the Speaker of the House, The President Pro Tem of the Senate, _then_ > to the Secretary of State. > > http://www.jeanlouie.com/Politics/Miscellaneous/I%20Am%20in%20Charge.htm > > http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html > > In any case, to keep this back on a classic thread, here's a link to > an announcement calling for shareholders to make a move against the > Commodore board, mentioning Haig by name... > > http://www.fhi-berlin.mpg.de/amiga/ar/ar118/p1-5.HTML > > -ethan From shirsch at adelphia.net Fri Mar 21 17:07:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Damien Cymbal wrote: > I was talking to my father about this. Back in the late 80's-early 90's the > company he was working for had several *pallets* of these that were free for > the taking. Just about all of it wound up going to scrap -- nobody wanted > any of it. > > Needless to say, he feels a little nauseous right now. > > I'll bet there are many similar woeful stories. Yes. We gave a mint Lisa 1 (w/10MB ProFile) to one of our employees after selling off a business in the early 90's. Had all the docs, Lisa Office, you name it. Worked fine. Cost about $10k when it was purchased new (~1983). We thought he was doing us a favor by taking it . From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Mar 21 17:42:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: VS 85/90 Message-ID: How about a VS 7110? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3408448778 >I'm trying to find a Wang VS-85 or VS-90. Any condition. These are >rather large systems, the VS-85 is about the size of a washing machine, >and the VS-90 is a little bit wider than the VS 85. If anybody runs >across one in their adventures, please contact me. I used to have a >VS90, many years ago. Now that I have space, I'd like to find one, if >there are any still out there. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 21 17:53:00 2003 From: pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net (Paul Mika) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Around 1 yr. ago the Postal Service had skids and skids of DEC and HP and many other computers. Most were sold at $30 but some went for $20. Kbd and mouse included. Monitors were $45.00. They sold them due to downsizing of the P.O. There were even some Mac stuff. I got a super Apple laser printer for $40 without a cartridge. ($45 on ebay.) Eventually they had to vacate the building(an old P.O. processing center that was sold) and they scrapped around 200 misc. computers. Just dumped them. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 21 17:57:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: odd Data General stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321141520.4d7fe18e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 21, 3 02:15:20 pm Message-ID: > The other piece is a round wiring cable with a DB-25M connector on > one end and a male and female HP-IB(?) connector on the other. The cable > is black and about 6' long. Anyone know what these are for? IEC625 is the same signals as IEEE488 but on DB25 connectors. Maybe it's for that. PERQs use the DB25 connector for the IEEE-488 bus, I think with IEC625 pinouts. I guess other machines did too -tony From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 21 18:00:05 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 References: Message-ID: <001801c2f004$606eba40$0400fea9@game> I know somebody who was given a lisa a few years ago, but has the 3.5" drive, only the twiggy 5.25 drive versions are rare I believe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven N. Hirsch" To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 > On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Damien Cymbal wrote: > > > I was talking to my father about this. Back in the late 80's-early 90's the > > company he was working for had several *pallets* of these that were free for > > the taking. Just about all of it wound up going to scrap -- nobody wanted > > any of it. > > > > Needless to say, he feels a little nauseous right now. > > > > I'll bet there are many similar woeful stories. > > Yes. We gave a mint Lisa 1 (w/10MB ProFile) to one of our > employees after selling off a business in the early 90's. Had all the > docs, Lisa Office, you name it. Worked fine. Cost about $10k when it was > purchased new (~1983). > > We thought he was doing us a favor by taking it . From djenner at earthlink.net Fri Mar 21 18:40:01 2003 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? References: <3.0.6.16.20030321150228.467f1fbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E7BB043.C61A2173@earthlink.net> Joe, The SMS FWD0106 is a disk controller for both floppies and hard drives. It actually consists of two cards: an interface that connects to the QBus or the Unibus (there are two versions) and a formatter card that connects to the interface card. (The formatter card can plug into the QBus or Unibus to get power, or it can be fed power by a connector; the formatter card does not use any QBus or Unibus signals.) The formatter handles both 5.25 and 8 inch floppies (one type at a time) and various types of MFM harddrives. There are several types of harddrives that you can use, depending on the ROM version on the formatter. The floppies can be RX01 or RX02 compatible, or can be a double-sided version of the RX02. The harddrive interface does not correspond to any DEC drive type. You need a special SMS driver for this card for RT-11, or there is an OEM version of 2.9BSD that supports this card. I have a number of these, and managed to get in 1989 a set of the last version of the ROMs from SMS just before they went out of business. These ROMs support about a couple of dozen MFM disk types, most of them pretty old. If you have some EPROMs left from parts, it would be interesting to hear what versions you have. The numbers on the EPROMs will be something like 1002013-0019 and 1002013-0020 at U65 and U64. Dave Joe wrote: > > Hi, > > I keep finding a lot of boards made by SMS and I'm wondering if they're worth picking up. A lot of them seem to be out of DEC systems and/or 8" floppy drive controllers that are used with DEC stuff. I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. > > Any thoughts on this? > > Joe -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Mar 21 19:34:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 References: <02d001c2ef4d$22f6b8f0$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> <20030321041219.927B92C108@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3E7BBC7A.62CDE1E6@verizon.net> David Vohs wrote: > > Hmmm...I thought it was 2003 & not 1983. The guy is paying damn near MSRP > for this thing! > > > Check out this Lisa one on eBay > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406407504 Interesting to see abeclassic bail at a 1/4 of the selling price. He usually wins what he wants. I think the seller should be tickled pink. > > > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Mar 21 19:46:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 References: <02d001c2ef4d$22f6b8f0$c20cdd40@oemcomputer> <3E7AB53E.6060008@cox.net> Message-ID: <3E7BBF55.F58EE1C7@verizon.net> Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > Before considering the effects of inflation, it only took twenty years > to break even! > Break even? By all practical purposes, within the collectable computer realm, breaking even is a success. Here, I'll sell you my Mac IIfx for half what this guy got for his Lisa since the Mac IIfx is half as old and cost just as much new. Eric > -Bryan > > Keys wrote: > > >Check out this Lisa one on eBay > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3406407504 From aek at spies.com Fri Mar 21 19:50:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: HP 2748 Paper Tape Reader?? Message-ID: <200303220146.h2M1k1m2020035@spies.com> The 2748 manuals are now up at http://www.spies.com/aek/pdf/hp/paperTape/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 19:59:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <20030321203555.97895.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321151241.4207d7c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321203313.0f07a2ba@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:35 PM 3/21/03 -0800, you wrote: >--- Joe wrote: >> At 08:40 PM 3/21/03 +0100, Gruss wrote: >> >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: >> > >> >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board >> >> Frankly I can't imagine why Apple would want him. > >Why did Commodore put Alexander Haig on their board? I remember a >press release at the time that said they were looking for a "take- >charge kind of guy." They certainly got one! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 21 20:02:15 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: <20030321203347.3104.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321150228.467f1fbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030321203237.0f072390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:33 PM 3/21/03 -0800, you wrote: >--- Joe wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I keep finding a lot of boards made by SMS and I'm wondering if >> they're worth picking up. A lot of them seem to be out of DEC systems >> and/or 8" floppy drive controllers that are used with DEC stuff. > >How expensive? $5? $50? Usually a couple of bucks. It depends on where I buy them. I find them at a number of different places. I probably find one per week on the average. > >> I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this >> one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an >> intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # >> 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. > >I'm not so familiar with SMS products... what connectors are on the >edge of the board? This particular one looks like it fits a Q-bus slot and even has the to metal extractor handles like those used on some of the DEC stuff but I've seen them in all kinds of shapes and sizes including one that looked like the smaller DEC cards that have two edge connectors (can't think of the name right now.) I can't even lay my hands on this one at the moment so I'll have to wait till I find it to tell you what other connectors it has. Joe > >-ethan > > > >> >> Any thoughts on this? >> >> Joe From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Mar 21 20:14:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: MicroVAX and MicroPDP-11 Maintenance Manuals Available Message-ID: <200303211811260592.5E815E63@192.168.42.129> SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT! With that said... I've just put up a maintenance manual for the MicroVAX 1 & 2, and a collection of three manuals for the MicroPDP-11 series (owner's manual, technical manual, and supplement for the 11/53 system) on E-pay. Low starting bid, no reserve, yadda yadda... ;-) Thanks (again) for putting up with my occasional ads. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3519&item=3408502046 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3519&item=3408503185 The only thing I ask is, whoever the winning bidder turns out to be, please play nice and share with the rest of the group. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 21 21:34:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: from "Innfogra@aol.com" at Mar 21, 2003 04:49:42 PM Message-ID: <200303220331.h2M3VCi0013969@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I've never seen an SMS product that was actually Q-Bus. The SMS systems I > > used to have had all the I/O on a *big* board that the Q-Bus backplane > > connected into. The only Q-Bus boards you had to have were CPU and Memory. > > I think you got one of those SMS Q-Bus Boxes from me. They are an interesting > system. A small QBus system piggybacked into a SMS Hard/Floppy drive box. I > remember one with 8" drives and one with 5" drives, rack mount approximately > 2U in size. I got both of them at the same time I got the PDP-11/44 from you (I still have the /44). Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 21 21:42:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321135101.116f8b4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > >Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth > >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest > >organization in the world--the United States government--as > >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." > >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK This has to be a joke. What next? Microsoft adds Reagan to their board? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 21 21:47:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Steven N. Hirsch wrote: > Yes. We gave a mint Lisa 1 (w/10MB ProFile) to one of our > employees after selling off a business in the early 90's. Had all the > docs, Lisa Office, you name it. Worked fine. Cost about $10k when it was > purchased new (~1983). Hey, that was probably the guy that sold the Lisa-1 on eBay for $10,000 ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Mar 21 22:21:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E7BE554.1080908@charter.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > > > >>>Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: >>> >>>Gore Joins Apple Board >>> >>>Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth >>>of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest >>>organization in the world--the United States government--as >>>a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." >>>http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK >>> >>> > >This has to be a joke. > >What next? Microsoft adds Reagan to their board? > > > He would fit right in. Neither Mr Reagan or Bill G seem to be able to remember anything these days. I know, poor taste. -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 21 23:48:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321135101.116f8b4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321135101.116f8b4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E7BF7F9.8060507@internet1.net> Joe wrote: >>Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: >> >>Gore Joins Apple Board >> >>Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth >>of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest >>organization in the world--the United States government--as >>a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." >>http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK >> >> > > Joe Does this now mean that Apple invented the internet?? :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat Mar 22 00:01:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321135101.116f8b4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321135101.116f8b4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030322055814.C546B2BD55@www.fastmail.fm> Just don't let him speak at a convention (WWDC, MacWorld, etc.) & I think we'll be alright. ;) On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:51:01, "Joe" said: > >Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth > >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest > >organization in the world--the United States government--as > >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." > >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK > > > > > Joe > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 22 00:12:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:30 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321203237.0f072390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > At 12:33 PM 3/21/03 -0800, you wrote: > >--- Joe wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I keep finding a lot of boards made by SMS and I'm wondering if > >> they're worth picking up. A lot of them seem to be out of DEC systems > >> and/or 8" floppy drive controllers that are used with DEC stuff. > > > >How expensive? $5? $50? > > Usually a couple of bucks. It depends on where I buy them. I find them at a number of different places. I probably find one per week on the average. > > > > >> I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this > >> one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an > >> intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # > >> 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. > > > >I'm not so familiar with SMS products... what connectors are on the > >edge of the board? > > This particular one looks like it fits a Q-bus slot and even has the to metal extractor handles like those used on some of the DEC stuff but I've seen them in all kinds of shapes and sizes including one that looked like the smaller DEC cards that have two edge connectors (can't think of the name right now.) I can't even lay my hands on this one at the moment so I'll have to wait till I find it to tell you what other connectors it has. > > Joe > If I am not confusing different companies, Scientific Micro Systems was bought out and 'repackaged' as SMS Technologies, a San Jose company. In one or both forms they also manufactured the OMTI line of SCSI, ESDI, and ST412 HD controllers. - don > > > > >-ethan > > > > > > > >> > >> Any thoughts on this? > >> > >> Joe From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Mar 22 01:06:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030322020143.058503e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > They sold them due to downsizing of the P.O. Actually, I'd seen at our local post office, in about that time frame, they were putting in a new, more modern, POS type system At 05:52 PM 3/21/03 -0600, you wrote: >Around 1 yr. ago the Postal Service had skids and skids of DEC and HP and >many other computers. Most were sold at $30 but some went for $20. >Kbd and mouse included. >Monitors were $45.00. >They sold them due to downsizing of the P.O. >There were even some Mac stuff. I got a super Apple laser printer for $40 >without a cartridge. ($45 on ebay.) >Eventually they had to vacate the building(an old P.O. processing center >that was sold) and they scrapped around 200 misc. computers. Just dumped >them. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Mar 22 01:11:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: MicroVAX and MicroPDP-11 Maintenance Manuals Available In-Reply-To: <200303211811260592.5E815E63@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030322020600.05857c90@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > The only thing I ask is, whoever the winning bidder turns out to be, > please play nice and share with the rest of the group. ;-) Why don't you send them to Al Kassow for scanning first, just to make sure it gets done, then sell them off afterwards? At 06:11 PM 3/21/03 -0800, you wrote: >SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT! > > With that said... I've just put up a maintenance manual for the > MicroVAX 1 & 2, and a collection of three manuals for the MicroPDP-11 > series (owner's manual, technical manual, and supplement for the 11/53 > system) on E-pay. Low starting bid, no reserve, yadda yadda... ;-) > > Thanks (again) for putting up with my occasional ads. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3519&item=3408502046 > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3519&item=3408503185 > > The only thing I ask is, whoever the winning bidder turns out to > be, please play nice and share with the rest of the group. ;-) > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior >to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Mar 22 01:15:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030321135101.116f8b4e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030322020832.05850c30@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > What next? Microsoft adds Reagan to their board? Which one? Ronald or Nancy? At 07:39 PM 3/21/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > > > >Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > > > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > > > > >Apple CEO Steve Jobs said Gore "brings an incredible wealth > > >of knowledge and wisdom to Apple from having run the largest > > >organization in the world--the United States government--as > > >a congressman, senator and our 45th vice president." > > >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo/y/eUOp0BzN6x0DUm0vVG0AK > >This has to be a joke. > >What next? Microsoft adds Reagan to their board? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Mar 22 02:53:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 goes for almost $10,000 Message-ID: <19e.11f92297.2bad7de7@aol.com> In a message dated 3/21/03 7:48:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, vcf@siconic.com writes: > Hey, that was probably the guy that sold the Lisa-1 on eBay for $10,000 ;) > I think in 1992-93 or so I sold one to a listmember for $100. It was in our large warehouse at the time. I remember thinking it wasn't worth much because it had those weird pushbutton 5 1/4 inch floppies. Oh well..... Paxton Astoria, OR From jss at subatomix.com Sat Mar 22 06:58:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: eBay: Multiple big VAXen Message-ID: <33066940.20030322065227@subatomix.com> Some guy is unloading a bunch of VAXen on eBay: 780, 785, 750, 8650. He's also got the Wang VS7110 that was mentioned earlier. Low opening bids, apparently located in Waltham, MA, USA. Not related to me. No links provided; searching eBay is easy enough. -- Jeffrey Sharp From hansp at aconit.org Sat Mar 22 06:59:10 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <20030321170524.52438.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030321170524.52438.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E7C59FB.4060907@aconit.org> Gary wrote: > Just trying to the question about the different types of Kaypros. > This is a list of machines KayPro made. KayComp (as per message form Don Maslin) > Kaypro II > Kaypro 10 > Kaypro IV > Kaypro 4 > Kaypro 2 > Kaypro 2X > Kaypro Robie > Kaypro 4X > Kaypro 12X > Kaypro 1 > Kaypro 16 > Kaypro PC > Kaypro 2000 (laptop) Anybody care to provide date of introduction for these machines? -- hbp From vance at neurotica.com Sat Mar 22 07:18:41 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <200303211928.h2LJSoS6026011@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Yep, I view this as and MacOS X as good reasons to give up on Apple. I beg to differ. I abhor MacOS before X. I wouldn't use it if you paid me. X, on the other hand... Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Sat Mar 22 07:21:06 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <3E7B78CB.8210.CA9AE308@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > Yep, I view this as and MacOS X as good reasons to give up on Apple. > > Hey, the LC475 and Performa 630 ar the best Macs ever, and I'll keep > them working... and what's wrong with having the man who 'took > initiative in creating the internet' (he never daid he invented it) > playing a role at the company which invented the GUI :) Didn't Xerox or someone like that invent the GUI? From root at parse.com Sat Mar 22 07:21:33 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321150228.467f1fbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 21, 2003 03:02:28 PM Message-ID: <200303212001.PAA16028@parse.com> Joe sez... > > Hi, > > I keep finding a lot of boards made by SMS and I'm wondering if they're worth picking up. A lot of them seem to be out of DEC systems and/or 8" floppy drive controllers that are used with DEC stuff. I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. > > Any thoughts on this? Prolly at least worthwhile for the 8085 and other spare parts... I'm looking for 6802's (and 6821's) and having a hard time... How much are they costing you? Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Mar 22 07:21:57 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... In-Reply-To: <3E7A2095.4F93D9DB@comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > Sent: 20 March 2003 20:12 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... > > This box was > shipped solely for the purpose of testing specialty keyboard/mouse > hardware. Ah, so is there a possibility it was used for testing of DECstation and VAXstation hardware? > Well, I do have in my parts bin, 2 cables that look like they might > work. Both have 3 BNC (RGB) connectors for video, but one has a box on > it, with PS/2 style mouse & keyboard; while the other has only the RJ-? > style DEC keyboard connector. The early Alphas (as has been discussed here) had a similar cable, complete with a mylar (?) strip that sat underneath the monitor to keep the keyboard/mouse box in one place. > I have the monitor from my DEC 3000/400 (3 BNC connectors) and a DEC > VRT17-HA (5 BNC) currently displaying green mono from my VAXStation > 3100. > Would I be safe trying one of those cable/monitor > combinations on the VAX? Personally I wouldn't until I dismantled the VAX to see where the bulkhead connector went. From its form factor it was obviously designed for a MVII, so given that thinking it could've been part of an MVII GPX and therefore would definitely be for a KVM cable; I'd wait until someone gives a definite answer. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Mar 22 07:22:22 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <006101c2ef1f$7d9d9860$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 20 March 2003 20:30 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace > > Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou :-) No problem; the machine was sat behind me! > keyboard. Is that > an assembly date of some sort? Hmm... Mine's got one too, but the > isopropyl rinse has lightened the ink a bit. The handwritten one? I'd say so. The Ace started in '82 and ended in 83 so it's a good guess. Sadly neither Richard Altwasser or Steve Vickers want to talk to me about the Ace, which is a shame. I've found people from the likes of Tandata, Newbury Labs, Grundy, Memotech, Nine Tiles and Camputers who like talking about the history; shame the people who were part of the pivotal time of home computing are silent. One of the Newbury people also did work for Torch *and* had a hand in the Enterprise 64. > Anyway, thanks a lot Witchy. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for a > knackered speccy. Or I could ask in comp.sys.sinclair, but I'm > not that mad yet... I've got a couple of cannibalised ones I can get the speaker from....just got to find them! Watch this space. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From wrb at wrbuckley.com Sat Mar 22 07:22:49 2003 From: wrb at wrbuckley.com (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <20030321212633.62262.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c2eff5$5d9f6b70$992cfea9@softnerdhqpo000> > Gotta love stupid parsers. > > > > > >> > Knew there was a reason why I wasn't a real Apple fan: > > > > >> > >Gore Joins Apple Board > > > > Frankly I can't imagine why Apple would want him. > > > > > Why did Commodore put Alexander Haig on their board? I remember a > > > press release at the time that said they were looking for a "take- > > > charge kind of guy." > > > > Excuse my ignorance, but who is Alexander Haig? I rember some > > Nato guy named haig, but I'm not shure. > > For the foreign audience, Al Haig was the U.S. Secretary of State when > President Reagan was shot. He achieved infamy by declaring at a press > conference "I'm in charge." Incorrect! The correct quote from Al Haig is: "I'm in charge, here." He said this responding to a reporters question, and through his inflection and tone of voice, was intent to show that he was in-charge at the White House. > The problem is that according to the > Constitution, the line of succession goes from the President > to the V.P. > to the Speaker of the House, The President Pro Tem of the > Senate, _then_ > to the Secretary of State. > > http://www.jeanlouie.com/Politics/Miscellaneous/I%20Am%20in%20 > Charge.htm > > http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html > > In any case, to keep this back on a classic thread, here's a link to > an announcement calling for shareholders to make a move against the > Commodore board, mentioning Haig by name... > > http://www.fhi-berlin.mpg.de/amiga/ar/ar118/p1-5.HTML > > -ethan From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Mar 22 07:23:14 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Atari PC motherboards References: <3E7B186A.8010002@t-online.de> Message-ID: <002401c2f023$1a47cd30$6500a8c0@starship1> Hi, I have a PC4 and all of the manuals, the only jumper settings were for the SCSI adapter. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Atari PC motherboards > Hello > > (1. If I'm in the wrong place - sorry / 2.My English is terrible I know) > > I own an old PC4. It is still running well. > My question to you: Does someone know the jumper settings?????????? > I searched for all jumpers on the board and found 12. One of it is pink > (JP10). > My system only got 1MB of RAM. Now I added 4 more RAM. But in the BIOS > they are disabled. How can I activate them? > > Hope you can help me in that way... :) > > Regards, Joerg From unr00ster at worldnet.att.net Sat Mar 22 07:23:38 2003 From: unr00ster at worldnet.att.net (UnRooster) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: new finds In-Reply-To: <000601c2edc2$093fa700$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: Try your local thrift store. Salvation Army, Goodwill, and St. Vincent De Paul. I found a nice IBM Eduquest 30, 386@25Mhz and a 40 meg hard drive. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of TeoZ Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 3:48 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: new finds If you run into an old Gateway 386/DX desktop with keyboard let me know. I could use a nice small desktop dos box with ps2 keyboard and mouse connections. From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Sat Mar 22 07:25:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: HP 97935 Media Module (Disk Pack) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030321084132.45efd5b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321084132.45efd5b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030322131326.GA6977@stingray.er-grp.com> On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 08:41:32AM +0000, Joe wrote: > Picked up two of these yesterday. Anyone know what drive they fit? They have seven platters and are roughly 12" in diameter. Marked 404 Mb. > HP 7933 ? I don't have mine at home so can't check. Don't throw them away :-) -- jht From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 22 07:53:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: <200303212001.PAA16028@parse.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321150228.467f1fbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030322083052.0f574026@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:01 PM 3/21/03 -0500, RK wrote: >Joe sez... >> >> Hi, >> >> I keep finding a lot of boards made by SMS and I'm wondering if they're worth picking up. A lot of them seem to be out of DEC systems and/or 8" floppy drive controllers that are used with DEC stuff. I usually leave them behind but I picked up one yesterday for parts. this one is a Q-bus card and has an AM2901ADC bit slice CPU, an Intel 8085, an intel 8155 and an Intel 8253. It says that it's model # FWD 0106, Assy # 000420-0001, Fab # 0004222 Rev C. >> >> Any thoughts on this? > >Prolly at least worthwhile for the 8085 and other spare parts... >I'm looking for 6802's (and 6821's) and having a hard time... > >How much are they costing you? It varies but usually a couple of bucks. Generally I "shop" at the scrap places so if I don't buy them they end up being scrapped for the metal but there's little if any gold in the SMS stuff so it's cheap. >I'm looking for 6802's (and 6821's) and having a hard time... I find them occasionally, I'll start picking up some. Do you mind unsoldering them or are you just looking for socketed parts? I think most of the 68xx stuff that I've seen is soldered in. I generally don't bother with soldered in parts but you may not have any choice. Drop me a line in a month or so I'll let you know what I find. Joe From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Mar 22 08:27:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: eBay: Multiple big VAXen Message-ID: Search for items for seller: jcmparts I think this is the same seller that had the huge load of DEC parts up for auction a while ago that people on the list considered going in together to buy. "26,000 Tested DEC parts" or something like that. I think all of the current VAX item descriptions state that they are missing at least a few or many parts. But they still might be interesting to VAX collectors. >Some guy is unloading a bunch of VAXen on eBay: 780, 785, 750, 8650. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From anheier at owt.com Sat Mar 22 10:04:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: National Instrument ISA GPIB board Message-ID: Picked up a National Instrument ISA bus GPIB board. This provide computer interface to many lab instruments. It's up for grabs for $25 or best + shipping. Send me your zip code so I can figure shipping. Thanks Norm From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Mar 22 11:31:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: HP 97935 Media Module (Disk Pack) In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo's message of "Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:13:27 +0200" References: <3.0.6.16.20030321084132.45efd5b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20030322131326.GA6977@stingray.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <200303221721.h2MHLWZQ081542@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 08:41:32AM +0000, Joe wrote: > > Picked up two of these yesterday. Anyone know what drive they > >fit? They have seven platters and are roughly 12" in > >diameter. Marked 404 Mb. > > HP 7933 ? I don't have mine at home so can't check. Don't throw them away :-) Yes, HP 7933 and 7935 drives. 7933 is the "fixed-pack" version of the 7935. Pretty much the same drive but the load/unload button is blank and doesn't do anything when you push it. There was an earlier version of the pack for the 7933 (which was shipped before the 7935); it wasn't as robust and there was an HP field service program to replace those older packs with the newer ones in drives with support contracts. Of course this involved scheduling time when the customer could back up and restore all the data on the drive (or volume set). -Frank McConnell From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Mar 22 13:01:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... In-Reply-To: <3E7A248B.9DD2E5C4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Ahhh, here it is. Stamped in the edge/frame of the card > it's connected to is M7602 YA. OK - I must have missed that in the original list of parts. It's a VCB01 (QVSS) - the original (IIRC) Qbus graphics module. You can find plenty of detail about the VCB01 in the VAXstation II Tech Manual at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 22 14:31:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <3E7C59FB.4060907@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Gary wrote: > > Just trying to the question about the different types of Kaypros. > > This is a list of machines KayPro made. > > KayComp (as per message form Don Maslin) ? > > Kaypro II June 1982* > > Kaypro 10 ? > > Kaypro IV ? > > Kaypro 4 ? > > Kaypro 2 ? > > Kaypro 2X ? > > Kaypro Robie ? > > Kaypro 4X ? > > Kaypro 12X ? > > Kaypro 1 ? > > Kaypro 16 ? > > Kaypro PC ? > > Kaypro 2000 (laptop)? > * From the June 10 1992 San Diego Union-Tribune report of conversion of Kaypro Chapter 11 bankruptcy to Chapter 7. - don > Anybody care to provide date of introduction for these machines? > > -- hbp From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sat Mar 22 14:48:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Atari PC motherboards In-Reply-To: <3E7B6CA7.5514.CA6B7753@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 21, 2003 07:48:55 PM Message-ID: <200303222045.h2MKjEtO028340@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >> I own an old PC4. It is still running well. >> My question to you: Does someone know the jumper settings?????????? >> I searched for all jumpers on the board and found 12. One of it is pink >> (JP10). >> My system only got 1MB of RAM. Now I added 4 more RAM. But in the BIOS >> they are disabled. How can I activate them? > You might try the last two "original" Atari dealers still around. (Original menaing they've been handling Atari and related products and been authorized service centers for Atari since the 80's). B&C Computer Visions - http://www.myatari.com/ Best Electronics - http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/ They're usually pretty helpful if you email them. Marty From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Mar 22 14:50:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <3E7C59FB.4060907@aconit.org> Message-ID: > > This is a list of machines KayPro made. > KayComp (as per message form Don Maslin) > > Kaypro II > . . . > Anybody care to provide date of introduction for these machines? ... and if talking about the history of them, then don't forget their previous products, such as the NLS scopes. From marvin at rain.org Sat Mar 22 15:25:02 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Popular Electronics Message-ID: <3E7CD3F6.7AA47C96@rain.org> Just a heads up in case anyone here is interested, Ebay has what appears to be a complete or nearly complete set of library bound Popular Electronics. The kicker is that the descriptions says pickup in Tennessee or mutual agreement. This seems like a *really* great buy since it also includes 1975 (the MITS Altair issues). The auction number is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3014129873&category=15050. Current price is $49.99 but was "stuck" at $49.95 for a few days with a BIN of $75.00. From Maclists at wideopenwest.com Sat Mar 22 16:32:01 2003 From: Maclists at wideopenwest.com (Kelly Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Any Ohio computer fests this spring? Message-ID: I live in Columbus and would like any info for any Ohio fests. (I just saw a post about a Dayton fest.) Thanks, --- Kelly D. Jones http://www.429Bauhaus.no-ip.com/ <-- My Old Computer Museum From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Sat Mar 22 16:48:01 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Looking for HP-85 Software Message-ID: Does anyone know of any sites that have archived software for the HP 85? I just got the Lifutil program running on an older DOS machine and am now able to convert, store, and send lif programs in a DOS file. My HP-85 is interfaced to a 9121D 3.5? disk drive and I also have a 82901M 5.25? drive. Of the math, statistics, and standard pacs I own I was only able to salvage 4 programs from the standard pac and none from the other tapes because of eof and read problems. Does anyone have copies of these or other HP 85 programs they could share? I would be glad to share what I have but for now I only have these programs: Timer, Ski, Amort, and one other. Thanks Bob rhahm@nycap.rr.com From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Mar 22 16:54:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Multiple big VAXen References: <33066940.20030322065227@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <018201c2f0c5$7b185150$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: "ClassicCmp Lists" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 6:52 AM Subject: eBay: Multiple big VAXen > Some guy is unloading a bunch of VAXen on eBay: 780, 785, 750, 8650. He's > also got the Wang VS7110 that was mentioned earlier. Low opening bids, > apparently located in Waltham, MA, USA. Not related to me. No links > provided; searching eBay is easy enough. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > You can search by SELLER, jcmparts, to see those auctions. Most of them are missing components, but would be possibly very good for completing a system. The 11/750 looks like the most complete. It seems to be missing primarily the power supply. Stuart Johnson From melamy at earthlink.net Sat Mar 22 16:55:01 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros Message-ID: <22030381.46404@webbox.com> 1982: March - Non-Linear Systems introduces the Kaypro II for US$1795. 1983: June - Non-Linear Systems introduces the Kaypro 4, like the Kaypro II but with 380KB double-sided disk drives. Price is US$1995. 1983: June - Non-Linear Systems introduces the Kaypro 10, like the Kaypro 4 but with one 380KB double-sided disk drive and a 10-MB internal hard drive. Price is US$2795. Weight is 31 pounds. from http://oldcomputers.net/kayproii.html >--- Original Message --- >From: Don Maslin >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 3/22/03 12:28:52 PM > On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > >> Gary wrote: >> > Just trying to the question about the different types of Kaypros. >> > This is a list of machines KayPro made. >> >> KayComp (as per message form Don Maslin) ? >> > Kaypro II June 1982* >> > Kaypro 10 ? >> > Kaypro IV ? >> > Kaypro 4 ? >> > Kaypro 2 ? >> > Kaypro 2X ? >> > Kaypro Robie ? >> > Kaypro 4X ? >> > Kaypro 12X ? >> > Kaypro 1 ? >> > Kaypro 16 ? >> > Kaypro PC ? >> > Kaypro 2000 (laptop)? >> >* From the June 10 1992 San Diego Union-Tribune report of >conversion of Kaypro Chapter 11 bankruptcy to Chapter 7. > > - don > >> Anybody care to provide date of introduction for these machines? >> >> -- hbp From lion at apocalypse.org Sat Mar 22 17:29:00 2003 From: lion at apocalypse.org (Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Multiple big VAXen In-Reply-To: <018201c2f0c5$7b185150$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <33066940.20030322065227@subatomix.com> <018201c2f0c5$7b185150$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: I've dealt with jcmparts in the past and have had a good experience, FYI. Primarily the company is a service shop that used to deal with DEC repairs. My guess is anything sold by them would be in decent condition. -- Michael >From: "Jeffrey Sharp" >To: "ClassicCmp Lists" >Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 6:52 AM >Subject: eBay: Multiple big VAXen > > >> Some guy is unloading a bunch of VAXen on eBay: 780, 785, 750, 8650. He's >> also got the Wang VS7110 that was mentioned earlier. Low opening bids, >> apparently located in Waltham, MA, USA. Not related to me. No links >> provided; searching eBay is easy enough. >> >> -- > > Jeffrey Sharp From bpope at wordstock.com Sat Mar 22 17:31:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Commodore V364 at $3050 on eBay In-Reply-To: <011401c2eff5$e32b7fe0$0400fea9@game> from "TeoZ" at Mar 21, 03 05:04:41 pm Message-ID: <200303222327.SAA13011@wordstock.com> And thusly TeoZ spake: > > Well if its the only one that works I think the price isnt that bad. > Check out http://www.zimmers.net This guy also has a working V364. I think he has every Commodore ever made... Cheers, Bryan From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Mar 22 19:08:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Auction Finds Today Message-ID: <013401c2f0d8$4f5a5f00$2709dd40@oemcomputer> At a school auction today I got the following: Sencore model CR133 CRT tester with service manual and set-up card. A Overland Data 1600/3200 tape drive model OD3201. Seems to power on find now locate manuals for it. A EzBook notebook by CTX missing harddrive. They had 75 pallets of computer stuff and some people purchased 5 pallet lots for $2.50 plus 1-% and taxes. From at258 at osfn.org Sat Mar 22 19:13:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <3E7C59FB.4060907@aconit.org> Message-ID: I think we have a 2000, and it is a desktop machine. On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Gary wrote: > > Just trying to the question about the different types of Kaypros. > > This is a list of machines KayPro made. > > KayComp (as per message form Don Maslin) > > Kaypro II > > Kaypro 10 > > Kaypro IV > > Kaypro 4 > > Kaypro 2 > > Kaypro 2X > > Kaypro Robie > > Kaypro 4X > > Kaypro 12X > > Kaypro 1 > > Kaypro 16 > > Kaypro PC > > Kaypro 2000 (laptop) > > Anybody care to provide date of introduction for these machines? > > -- hbp > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From lkinzer at sciti.com Sat Mar 22 19:21:01 2003 From: lkinzer at sciti.com (Lowell Kinzer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: References: <20030321170524.52438.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030322101006.026660a8@popmail.ltsp.com> At 3/21/2003 02:36 PM, Don Maslin wrote: >On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Gary wrote: > > > Just trying to the question about the different types of Kaypros. > > This is a list of machines KayPro made. > > Kaypro II > > Kaypro 10 > > Kaypro IV > > Kaypro 4 > > Kaypro 2 > > Kaypro 2X > > Kaypro Robie > > Kaypro 4X > > Kaypro 12X > > Kaypro 1 > > Kaypro 16 > > Kaypro PC > > Kaypro 2000 (laptop) > > I believe this covers all of the computers they made. I am guessing the > > person on the message section is trying to put together a collection of > > different KayPros > > Gary > >But before the Kaypro II was the KayComp of which only a limited >number were made. > - don From memory and browsing a few issues of Profiles magazine, here are a few more to add to the list: Kaypro 16E Kaypro 2000+ Kaypro XL Kaypro 286i Kaypro 286 Kaypro 286-16 Kaypro 386 Kaypro Diskless Workstation Kaypro MICRO 1 Cheers, Lowell lkinzer@sciti.com From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 22 20:32:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I think we have a 2000, and it is a desktop machine. The 2000 is a black, metallic enclosure laptop. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 22 21:55:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Tape media Message-ID: <3E7D2F78.4020101@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, so I sorted through my last weekend's bait, hooked up my new HSZ40 (with 50 GB in 4 StorageWorks boxes plus all sorts of tape drives, TSZ07, TLZ07, TZ68, and ~88) to my PC for FreeBSD. It's so much fun to read a 9-track reel from a FreeBSD PC (just too bad it doesn't have a transparent top cover to show off the reels). I have bulk-erased a bunch of TK50 tapes in the hopes that they would work as DLT III and IV tapes as well, but these drives still went into write-protect mode. Does anyone here know details about the DLT media? I mean it is a well-known fact (and I proved it to myself many times) that CompacTape I works just fine as CompacTape II. So why not as III and IV? Is it really the tape or might it be some notches on the cassette that are used to code the kind of tape? The problem is I didn't get any tape media for my nice DLT tape drives and this stuff is so darn expensive if bought new. Any ideas? regards, -Gunther From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Mar 22 21:59:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card Message-ID: <20030323042308.GE38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> A couple of weeks ago, I picked up an Apple LC II with a IIe card in it. Amazingly, this came with the original Apple multimedia package, including speakers, a CD-ROM drive, the Apple II floppy drive, complete with Y cable, and an external hard drive. Does anyone know if this IIe card is faster than the original IIe? It looks like a fun toy to play with. :-) On a related note (hopefully not too far OT), does anyone have a Mac OS 8.5 system/install CD, that will work with a non-G3 PowerPC (e.g. 7200/90), that they can clone for me? I'm willing to send some new blank CDs or a floppy copy of the software for the II/e board, etc. in exchange. One more question for the Apple gurus on this list: will a monitor used with an LC work with a IIgs? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From tarsi at binhost.com Sat Mar 22 22:20:01 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: <20030323042308.GE38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030323042308.GE38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200303222220.02702.tarsi@binhost.com> > On a related note (hopefully not too far OT), does anyone have a Mac > OS 8.5 system/install CD, that will work with a non-G3 PowerPC > (e.g. 7200/90), that they can clone for me? Nope, but I have 7.5.3 readily available, which I use for my 7200/90 and it works great. (currently trying to get Gentoo to dual-boot, too!) IIe card. Nice. They're a lot of fun. Tarsi 210 From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Mar 22 22:27:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card References: <20030323042308.GE38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001501c2f0f3$54694720$0400fea9@game> I have an original OS 8.5 cd, do you have broadband internet? ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: Apple IIe card > A couple of weeks ago, I picked up an Apple LC II with a IIe card in it. > Amazingly, this came with the original Apple multimedia package, including > speakers, a CD-ROM drive, the Apple II floppy drive, complete with Y cable, > and an external hard drive. > > Does anyone know if this IIe card is faster than the original IIe? It > looks like a fun toy to play with. :-) > > On a related note (hopefully not too far OT), does anyone have a Mac > OS 8.5 system/install CD, that will work with a non-G3 PowerPC > (e.g. 7200/90), that they can clone for me? I'm willing to send some > new blank CDs or a floppy copy of the software for the II/e board, > etc. in exchange. > > One more question for the Apple gurus on this list: will a monitor > used with an LC work with a IIgs? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 22 22:27:28 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Booting the HP 9000 K class Message-ID: <3E7D36FE.8090904@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, so, I turned on my new HP 9000 K/400 machine. This one is a nice rack with a Raid array built in and two nice DDS2 drives. Has 2 CPUs (could put in 2 more) chugging at 100 MHz (100 times 2 as fast as that C64 :-), FDDI, Ethernet, SCSI and serial line MUX. The powercord is a bit short so it didn't reach to my special receptacle bar behind the VAX 11/780. But easy to plug in the 4 internal cords separately. Came right up with HP-UX. It's a nice stand-alone machine, everything right there. I was wondering if there is some tool in HPUX that show you the load balancing between the CPUs? On Ultrix there is something called cpustat(8). I never really liked HP-UX so well (it brings up mixed memories.) What other OS would run on this type of machine? NetBSD? OpenBSD? I can never tell the many different 9000 machines with all this confusing numbering 9000/400 is an 800 machine and everything is called 9000 even if very different architecture. But I am afraid OpenBSD doesn't support it, right? I'd like to run a Microkernel (Mach) based OS on it, has anyone experience with the PA-RISC Mach based OSes? OTOH, I don't want to loose the HP-UX system to fall back on. Are there free old versions of HP-UX floating around? I have an HPUX CDROM in the drive, but it is 1 of 2 and I don't have the other one. And I figure there are licese keys needed when installing it freshly, right? Even though this is kind of a nice machine, I don't know where to house it anymore (DEC stuff is my normal line of business) So, what do people think of these machines? Are they fashionable? Are there any fans of those like there are for DEC gear? Anybody want to trade? An NVAX pedestal? cheers, -Gunther From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Mar 22 22:35:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Tape media References: <3E7D2F78.4020101@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3E7D38E1.B973F455@compsys.to> >Gunther Schadow wrote: > so I sorted through my last weekend's bait, hooked up my new HSZ40 > (with 50 GB in 4 StorageWorks boxes plus all sorts of tape drives, > TSZ07, TLZ07, TZ68, and ~88) to my PC for FreeBSD. It's so much > fun to read a 9-track reel from a FreeBSD PC (just too bad it doesn't > have a transparent top cover to show off the reels). > > I have bulk-erased a bunch of TK50 tapes in the hopes that they > would work as DLT III and IV tapes as well, but these drives > still went into write-protect mode. Does anyone here know details > about the DLT media? I mean it is a well-known fact (and I proved > it to myself many times) that CompacTape I works just fine as > CompacTape II. So why not as III and IV? Is it really the tape > or might it be some notches on the cassette that are used to > code the kind of tape? > > The problem is I didn't get any tape media for my nice DLT tape drives > and this stuff is so darn expensive if bought new. Any ideas? Jerome Fine replies: Memorex used to have a list of all of the physical characteristics of CompacTape / DLT tapes. I can't remember any of the actual numbers, but I do remember the key information you require. CompacTape I and CompacTape II were completely identical in every detail - except for for the colour of the name on the case. Usually The "CompacTape" label was brown; the "CompacTape II" was usually blue. Oh yes, DEC charged a fair bit more for the tape with the blue label. Both the TK50 and the TK70 used these tapes. However, once a given drive started to write on a blank tape, it was not possible to switch the tape to be written by the other drive. In particular, the TK70 could read tapes written by a TK50 drive, but the TK70 would immediately WRITE PROTECT itself as soon as the tape was interested into the TK70. A bulk erase is required to allow switching the tapes between the TK50 and the TK70 - as your have already discovered. As for the DLT III media, the physical characteristics were substantially different from the CompacTape media. I am quite sure that the drives which use the DLT media are unable to use the CompacTape media. Likewise, the TK50 / TK70 drives are unable to use the DLT media. DLT IV media are very different again from DLT III media. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 22 22:55:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) startup Message-ID: <3E7D3D8D.3010609@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, thanks to Sridhar's kind encouragement, I turned on my new DEC 7000. I just used my special VAX6000 receptacle (that puts 220 V 2 phases on a 3-phase receptacle in just the right way for the VAX6000 to work.) I had to change the plug from a 30A to a 20A plug which was straight forward (almost same shape and dimensions). Plugged it in and turned it on and it would right work. I come to like this machine. A bit bulky, very modern looking. That blower fan is very impressive and it's humming very cool. Not so squeeky as the VAX6000 and not so blarringly loud as the 11/780. As usual, I had a bit of wobbling to do on the XMI bus to get all cards tested fine and that works now. This one has two StorageWorks boxes in its rack and the KZMSA cards. I loaded it with disks etc and attempted to boot from them. Turns out that this machine once ran under OSF/1 as all the disk had OSF/1 bootblocks on them. But unfortunately none of the disks I had left were actually bootable (missing osf_boot or causing some panic. So, my question is, where can I get a UNIX system for this machine? Are there any copies of OSF (bootables) around? How about DEC-UNIX? NetBSD/Alpha (or FreeBSD for that matter) won't run until we have fixed lack of an XMI bus driver. Are there any port-alpha people who are working on this XMI issue? (On the port-vax side it depends mainly on Ragge and the very few folks with VAX6000s to do that.) I tried the KZMSA board out in the VAX6000 just to see if this really doesn't work. Indeed the card was not detected right (shows up with ?????? in the SHOW CONFIGURATION). Is there really nothing one could do to get that to work on VAX6000? Would it work in a VAX7000? thanks, -Gunther From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 22 23:20:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: eBay: Multiple big VAXen References: Message-ID: <3E7D436A.6070605@aurora.regenstrief.org> Yes, I want the 11/785 gear, I can't ship it all at once, mainly I need a KA785 backplane, PSUs and console label, plus extra cards and stuff. I need those spares for my 11/780 that has problems anyhow. Is there anyone in the Boston area who could help me out with some of the logistics in case jcmparts won't? thanks, -Gunther Glen S wrote: > Search for items for seller: jcmparts > > I think this is the same seller that had the huge load of DEC parts up > for auction a while ago that people on the list considered going in > together to buy. "26,000 Tested DEC parts" or something like that. > > I think all of the current VAX item descriptions state that they are > missing at least a few or many parts. But they still might be > interesting to VAX collectors. > >> Some guy is unloading a bunch of VAXen on eBay: 780, 785, 750, 8650. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 23 01:31:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Tape media In-Reply-To: from "Gunther Schadow" at Mar 22, 2003 10:52:24 PM Message-ID: <200303230728.h2N7SRMP002063@shell1.aracnet.com> > so I sorted through my last weekend's bait, hooked up my new HSZ40 > (with 50 GB in 4 StorageWorks boxes plus all sorts of tape drives, > TSZ07, TLZ07, TZ68, and ~88) to my PC for FreeBSD. It's so much > fun to read a 9-track reel from a FreeBSD PC (just too bad it doesn't > have a transparent top cover to show off the reels). > > I have bulk-erased a bunch of TK50 tapes in the hopes that they > would work as DLT III and IV tapes as well, but these drives > still went into write-protect mode. Does anyone here know details > about the DLT media? I mean it is a well-known fact (and I proved > it to myself many times) that CompacTape I works just fine as > CompacTape II. So why not as III and IV? Is it really the tape > or might it be some notches on the cassette that are used to > code the kind of tape? > > The problem is I didn't get any tape media for my nice DLT tape drives > and this stuff is so darn expensive if bought new. Any ideas? I really hope you didn't wreck that TZ86 and TZ88, thankfully these are the DEC drives and I think they might be more forgiving than something like a DLT2000 or DLT4000 drive. IIRC, the TZ86 is capable of reading TK50 and TK70 tapes. There is a drastic difference between TK50/70 and DLT III & IV media! I don't remember the specifics on the differences, part of it is that it writes in a different manner, and part is that the tape is different. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 23 01:34:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) startup In-Reply-To: from "Gunther Schadow" at Mar 22, 2003 11:52:29 PM Message-ID: <200303230731.h2N7VbLc002201@shell1.aracnet.com> > Turns out that this machine once ran under OSF/1 as all the disk > had OSF/1 bootblocks on them. But unfortunately none of the disks > I had left were actually bootable (missing osf_boot or causing > some panic. So, my question is, where can I get a UNIX system > for this machine? Are there any copies of OSF (bootables) around? > How about DEC-UNIX? NetBSD/Alpha (or FreeBSD for that matter) > won't run until we have fixed lack of an XMI bus driver. Are > there any port-alpha people who are working on this XMI issue? (On > the port-vax side it depends mainly on Ragge and the very few folks > with VAX6000s to do that.) DEC/Compaq used to offer Tru64 Hobbyist for about $100. It included CD's and permanent license PAKs. Unfortunatly I don't know if they still offer it, or where to get info on it. Besides, why waste nice HW like that with Unix, put OpenVMS on it :^) Zane From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Mar 23 02:55:00 2003 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:31 2005 Subject: Free Motorola DTL?RTL chips Message-ID: <3E7D75CA.nail2XZ1YC451@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> OK, it's a few decades late, but I've got a few dozen Motorola chips from the early 70's that must be interesting to somebody: MC679P MC675P MC669P MC688P etc., all 14-pin DIP packages. I think these were Motorola's DTL line, but maybe they were really RTL - my brain cannot recall. Anyway, they're free (I'll even pay shipping) to whoever wants them, first come, first served. Tim. From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Sun Mar 23 07:46:01 2003 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Booting the HP 9000 K class In-Reply-To: <3E7D36FE.8090904@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <3E7D36FE.8090904@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: Nice little system. Try 'top' to see the 2 cpu's in action. If it is loaded, the hpux performance monitor called 'glance' will show you more detail. (text mode version, type 'glance', if you're connecting via an x-term (or xwindows emulator), set your DISPLAY variable, then run 'gpm'. I don't think there ever was a 'freeware' hpux, but I thought that owning the box entitied you to, at least, a 2-user hpux install. No keys needed to install the O/S, but you need keys to install optional software. Which version of hpux is it running? Before you make major changes, look at loading (if it's not on the system already), "ignite". It's free from hp, and can make bootable recovery tapes (if you get into trouble, you can boot the tape and it will do a full recovery of your O/S. (the command to make the tape is 'make_tape_recovery -Av' (will backup your entire root volume group)). Enjoy! (I wish I had the space for some hpux at home...I manage a bunch of hpux at work). -Bob >Hi, > >so, I turned on my new HP 9000 K/400 machine. This one is a nice >rack with a Raid array built in and two nice DDS2 drives. Has >2 CPUs (could put in 2 more) chugging at 100 MHz (100 times 2 >as fast as that C64 :-), FDDI, Ethernet, SCSI and serial line >MUX. The powercord is a bit short so it didn't reach to my >special receptacle bar behind the VAX 11/780. But easy to >plug in the 4 internal cords separately. Came right up with HP-UX. >It's a nice stand-alone machine, everything right there. > >I was wondering if there is some tool in HPUX that show you >the load balancing between the CPUs? On Ultrix there is >something called cpustat(8). > >I never really liked HP-UX so well (it brings up mixed memories.) >What other OS would run on this type of machine? NetBSD? >OpenBSD? I can never tell the many different 9000 machines >with all this confusing numbering 9000/400 is an 800 machine >and everything is called 9000 even if very different >architecture. But I am afraid OpenBSD doesn't support it, >right? I'd like to run a Microkernel (Mach) based OS on >it, has anyone experience with the PA-RISC Mach based OSes? > >OTOH, I don't want to loose the HP-UX system to fall back >on. Are there free old versions of HP-UX floating around? >I have an HPUX CDROM in the drive, but it is 1 of 2 and >I don't have the other one. And I figure there are licese >keys needed when installing it freshly, right? > >Even though this is kind of a nice machine, I don't know where >to house it anymore (DEC stuff is my normal line of business) >So, what do people think of these machines? Are they fashionable? >Are there any fans of those like there are for DEC gear? Anybody >want to trade? An NVAX pedestal? > >cheers, >-Gunther bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Mar 23 07:55:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) startup In-Reply-To: <3E7D3D8D.3010609@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <000d01c2f143$7c5ba980$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I tried the KZMSA board out in the VAX6000 just to see if > this really doesn't work. Indeed the card was not detected > right (shows up with ?????? in the SHOW CONFIGURATION). Is > there really nothing one could do to get that to work on > VAX6000? Would it work in a VAX7000? IIRC the KZMSA is an XMI SCSI controller. The firmware for this card is such that it won't work in a VAX (I don't know the details but I expect that it has carnal knowledge of the Alpha page table structure or some such). IIRC some XMI cards come with two flavours of firmware and can work in either VAX or Alpha - unfortunately this is not one of them. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Mar 23 08:37:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 Message-ID: <3E7DC60E.F5328314@compsys.to> The last two times I posted this, another person contacted me either for help or to request the CDs. I will post this about once a week until no one replies. In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of making up a second (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 Please contact me directly for my snail mail address. I can also accept VISA and Master Card, but please don't send me the credit card number via e-mail since the information is not secure. Does anyone know of a way to send credit card numbers in a secure way via an e-mail? I just picked up some Memorx CD-R blanks and started on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 23 09:41:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media In-Reply-To: <3E7D2F78.4020101@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <3E7D2F78.4020101@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <2486215160.20030323093856@subatomix.com> On Saturday, March 22, 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > It's so much fun to read a 9-track reel from a FreeBSD PC (just too bad it > doesn't have a transparent top cover to show off the reels). Now that would be an interesting mod, a good way to poke fun at all these people nowadays that are putting plexiglass windows on their PC cases! -- Jeffrey Sharp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Mar 23 09:57:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout In-Reply-To: <21030380.38286@webbox.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Steve Thatcher > Sent: 21 March 2003 18:38 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: RE: US Gov't/Navy DEC clearout > > > don't be surprised if the lowly Rainbow is worth something one > day even if it is a PC... > Oh yeah, but I don't think of the Rainbow as being a PC anyway :) I was talking about the DECivettis like the Venturis et al. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From stevew at ka6s.com Sun Mar 23 09:57:39 2003 From: stevew at ka6s.com (stevew) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: B1965 Message-ID: <200303222202.51039.stevew@ka6s.com> Alan, My name is Steven Wilson - I saw a post of yours dated 11/21/2002 looking for a B1965. I'm curious if you ever found one. I designed the machine. Steve Wilson stevew@ka6s.com From rhaffly at cablenet-va.com Sun Mar 23 09:58:05 2003 From: rhaffly at cablenet-va.com (Bob Haffly) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: RDRAM chips to give Message-ID: <005501c2f14e$2b2519b0$6400a8c0@FamilyPC> I am still interested in the chips, if they are still available. Contact me, intdoc@charter.net From cb at mythtech.net Sun Mar 23 09:59:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card Message-ID: >Does anyone know if this IIe card is faster than the original IIe? It >looks like a fun toy to play with. :-) I can't say for sure, but I don't think it is. >On a related note (hopefully not too far OT), does anyone have a Mac >OS 8.5 system/install CD, that will work with a non-G3 PowerPC >(e.g. 7200/90), that they can clone for me? Send me your address (offlist) and I'm sure you'll get something in the mail in a few days :-) >One more question for the Apple gurus on this list: will a monitor >used with an LC work with a IIgs? According to Apple... No. They specify that the IIgs RGB monitor is not compatible with the RGB in the Mac, so I infer that to mean the opposite to be true as well. I think the reason for it is the IIgs uses Analog RGB, while the Mac I believe uses Digital RGB. However, if your monitor happens to support Analog RGB, then you should be ok. There is of course a composite video port on the IIgs so you can connect to anything that supports composite video (TV or Apple II series monitor, or whatever). -chris From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 23 10:11:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media References: <200303230728.h2N7SRMP002063@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <001601c2f156$4df860c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have bulk-erased a bunch of TK50 tapes in the hopes that they > would work as DLT III and IV tapes as well, but these drives > still went into write-protect mode. Does anyone here know details > about the DLT media?... To add a some info. as to a near answer to this question, I was able to _read_ TK50's into an Alpha with a ~20GB DLT drive (don't recall the designator) back in 1997 when that drive was nearly new. I don't believe that the newer drive had any chance of _writing_ reinit format information (after a bulk erase) onto such a tape. John A. From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Mar 23 10:33:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Booting the HP 9000 K class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On recent versions of the OS, HP gave unlimited user licenses by default. See embedded html See embedded html ttttttttttttttttttSee embedded html This email address has NEVER been subscribed to ANY so called "opt in" list. FTC GOES AFTER SPAM AND SCAMS The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), working with six U.S. states and Canadian officials, is cracking down on operators of Internet scams, including those that commit deceptive advertising in spam e-mail. Spam has become a lucrative method for propagating frauds, allowing criminals to send many millions of solicitations to prospective victims. This enforcement group, started by the FTC two years ago, has begun legal proceedings against Internet crimes in 63 cases in recent months. Recent targets of the FTC include a pyramid scheme, a cancer treatment scam, and a mail-order CD business that settled charges of mail order fraud. San Jose Mercury News, 3 April 2002 SPAMOn Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Bob Brown wrote: > Nice little system. > Try 'top' to see the 2 cpu's in action. > If it is loaded, the hpux performance monitor called 'glance' will show you > more detail. (text mode version, type 'glance', if you're connecting via > an x-term (or xwindows emulator), set your DISPLAY variable, then run > 'gpm'. > > I don't think there ever was a 'freeware' hpux, but I thought that > owning the box entitied you to, at least, a 2-user hpux install. > > No keys needed to install the O/S, but you need keys to install optional > software. > > Which version of hpux is it running? > > Before you make major changes, look at loading (if it's not on the system > already), "ignite". It's free from hp, and can make bootable recovery > tapes (if you get into trouble, you can boot the tape and it will do a > full recovery of your O/S. > > (the command to make the tape is 'make_tape_recovery -Av' (will backup your > entire root volume group)). > > Enjoy! > > (I wish I had the space for some hpux at home...I manage a bunch of > hpux at work). > > -Bob > > > >Hi, > > > >so, I turned on my new HP 9000 K/400 machine. This one is a nice > >rack with a Raid array built in and two nice DDS2 drives. Has > >2 CPUs (could put in 2 more) chugging at 100 MHz (100 times 2 > >as fast as that C64 :-), FDDI, Ethernet, SCSI and serial line > >MUX. The powercord is a bit short so it didn't reach to my > >special receptacle bar behind the VAX 11/780. But easy to > >plug in the 4 internal cords separately. Came right up with HP-UX. > >It's a nice stand-alone machine, everything right there. > > > >I was wondering if there is some tool in HPUX that show you > >the load balancing between the CPUs? On Ultrix there is > >something called cpustat(8). > > > >I never really liked HP-UX so well (it brings up mixed memories.) > >What other OS would run on this type of machine? NetBSD? > >OpenBSD? I can never tell the many different 9000 machines > >with all this confusing numbering 9000/400 is an 800 machine > >and everything is called 9000 even if very different > >architecture. But I am afraid OpenBSD doesn't support it, > >right? I'd like to run a Microkernel (Mach) based OS on > >it, has anyone experience with the PA-RISC Mach based OSes? > > > >OTOH, I don't want to loose the HP-UX system to fall back > >on. Are there free old versions of HP-UX floating around? > >I have an HPUX CDROM in the drive, but it is 1 of 2 and > >I don't have the other one. And I figure there are licese > >keys needed when installing it freshly, right? > > > >Even though this is kind of a nice machine, I don't know where > >to house it anymore (DEC stuff is my normal line of business) > >So, what do people think of these machines? Are they fashionable? > >Are there any fans of those like there are for DEC gear? Anybody > >want to trade? An NVAX pedestal? > > > >cheers, > >-Gunther > > bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR > Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator > Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace > -- From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Mar 23 10:34:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Booting the HP 9000 K class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry about that, my two year old helps with typing and hit some macros. On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Paul Thompson wrote: > > > On recent versions of the OS, HP gave unlimited user licenses by default. > See embedded html > See embedded html > ttttttttttttttttttSee embedded html > This email address has NEVER been subscribed to ANY so called "opt in" list. > > FTC GOES AFTER SPAM AND SCAMS > The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), working with six U.S. states > and Canadian officials, is cracking down on operators of Internet > scams, including those that commit deceptive advertising in spam > e-mail. Spam has become a lucrative method for propagating frauds, > allowing criminals to send many millions of solicitations to > prospective victims. This enforcement group, started by the FTC > two years ago, has begun legal proceedings against Internet crimes > in 63 cases in recent months. Recent targets of the FTC include a > pyramid scheme, a cancer treatment scam, and a mail-order CD > business that settled charges of mail order fraud. > San Jose Mercury News, 3 April 2002 > SPAMOn Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Bob Brown wrote: > > > Nice little system. > > Try 'top' to see the 2 cpu's in action. > > If it is loaded, the hpux performance monitor called 'glance' will show you > > more detail. (text mode version, type 'glance', if you're connecting via > > an x-term (or xwindows emulator), set your DISPLAY variable, then run > > 'gpm'. > > > > I don't think there ever was a 'freeware' hpux, but I thought that > > owning the box entitied you to, at least, a 2-user hpux install. > > > > No keys needed to install the O/S, but you need keys to install optional > > software. > > > > Which version of hpux is it running? > > > > Before you make major changes, look at loading (if it's not on the system > > already), "ignite". It's free from hp, and can make bootable recovery > > tapes (if you get into trouble, you can boot the tape and it will do a > > full recovery of your O/S. > > > > (the command to make the tape is 'make_tape_recovery -Av' (will backup your > > entire root volume group)). > > > > Enjoy! > > > > (I wish I had the space for some hpux at home...I manage a bunch of > > hpux at work). > > > > -Bob > > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > >so, I turned on my new HP 9000 K/400 machine. This one is a nice > > >rack with a Raid array built in and two nice DDS2 drives. Has > > >2 CPUs (could put in 2 more) chugging at 100 MHz (100 times 2 > > >as fast as that C64 :-), FDDI, Ethernet, SCSI and serial line > > >MUX. The powercord is a bit short so it didn't reach to my > > >special receptacle bar behind the VAX 11/780. But easy to > > >plug in the 4 internal cords separately. Came right up with HP-UX. > > >It's a nice stand-alone machine, everything right there. > > > > > >I was wondering if there is some tool in HPUX that show you > > >the load balancing between the CPUs? On Ultrix there is > > >something called cpustat(8). > > > > > >I never really liked HP-UX so well (it brings up mixed memories.) > > >What other OS would run on this type of machine? NetBSD? > > >OpenBSD? I can never tell the many different 9000 machines > > >with all this confusing numbering 9000/400 is an 800 machine > > >and everything is called 9000 even if very different > > >architecture. But I am afraid OpenBSD doesn't support it, > > >right? I'd like to run a Microkernel (Mach) based OS on > > >it, has anyone experience with the PA-RISC Mach based OSes? > > > > > >OTOH, I don't want to loose the HP-UX system to fall back > > >on. Are there free old versions of HP-UX floating around? > > >I have an HPUX CDROM in the drive, but it is 1 of 2 and > > >I don't have the other one. And I figure there are licese > > >keys needed when installing it freshly, right? > > > > > >Even though this is kind of a nice machine, I don't know where > > >to house it anymore (DEC stuff is my normal line of business) > > >So, what do people think of these machines? Are they fashionable? > > >Are there any fans of those like there are for DEC gear? Anybody > > >want to trade? An NVAX pedestal? > > > > > >cheers, > > >-Gunther > > > > bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR > > Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator > > Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace > > > > -- From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 23 10:37:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Powering up for the first time Message-ID: <20030323163359.HYXN10618.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> I originally posted this the the comp.sys.ibm-as400 group but other than someone wanting the disks I hd no replies, so I'll try here. I have connected everything and it is now time to power up my AS400 9404. There were 6 disks in the box with it. I'm not certain I have picked the correct 3 to start. What message might I see if the disks are not loaded in the correct order? Or might there be a label on the drive that takes care of that? Is there any external markings, of jumpers that might indicate the correct order? If it works, is there a way to gt to single user mode, or bypass the password? If I I get stuck is there a way to cleanly shutdown? If all else fails is there any interest in 9404 parts? Mike -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 From at258 at osfn.org Sun Mar 23 11:16:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ours is grey, metal and clearly not a laptop. On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > I think we have a 2000, and it is a desktop machine. > > The 2000 is a black, metallic enclosure laptop. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vcf at siconic.com Sun Mar 23 11:59:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Ours is grey, metal and clearly not a laptop. Odd. You must have something different. Is there a more descriptive model number somewhere? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Mar 23 12:05:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030323183004.GF38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe chris, from writings of Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 10:55:49AM -0500: > >OS 8.5 system/install CD, that will work with a non-G3 PowerPC > >(e.g. 7200/90), that they can clone for me? > > Send me your address (offlist) and I'm sure you'll get something in the > mail in a few days :-) Thanks! > However, if your monitor happens to support Analog RGB, then you should > be ok. Hmmm, perhaps like an old Tandy RGB monitor... > There is of course a composite video port on the IIgs so you can connect > to anything that supports composite video (TV or Apple II series monitor, > or whatever). Yes, I noticed that. While my IIe's monitor is monochrome, that will do for now. Hey, I can pretend to be looking at a color display, right? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From sleepyjackal at earthlink.net Sun Mar 23 12:16:00 2003 From: sleepyjackal at earthlink.net (Gary and the Samoyeds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Motorola DTL?RTL chips --> HTL References: <3E7D75CA.nail2XZ1YC451@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3E7DF39F.B2032417@earthlink.net> Those numbers are MHTL. +15V supply, high noise immunity. The MC669 is an expander. My sources don't go beyond 674, so don't know what the others are. -- I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnish`d rows of steel, "As ye deal with my contemners, So with you my grace shall deal;" Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel Send eMail to ----> grenaud@acm.org. For contact info, see: http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/contact.htm From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Mar 23 12:26:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros References: Message-ID: <3E7DFB9A.1000605@eoni.com> Google turns up many Kaypro links. Most with pictures and few specs or this one with no pictures and a number of specs: Jim -- If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb ~ From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Mar 23 13:16:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: <200303222220.02702.tarsi@binhost.com> References: <20030323042308.GE38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200303222220.02702.tarsi@binhost.com> Message-ID: <20030323194105.GH38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tarsi, from writings of Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 10:20:02PM -0600: > Nope, but I have 7.5.3 readily available, which I use for my 7200/90 and it > works great. (currently trying to get Gentoo to dual-boot, too!) That's what I had installed, until I attempted an upgrade to 7.6.1. My Centris has 7.6.1 on it, along with the FreePPP software that I was using with it. Hopefully what I did wrong will be a lesson for others to help prevent others from making their systems unbootable. What I did was create an Appleshare connection between the Centris and the PowerPC then: (1) rename the old system folder (2) copy the 7.6.1 folder with FreePPP to the PowerPC, (3) "bless" the new system folder by removing finder from the old system folder. When I booted, everything appeared to be ok, temporarily, until the little window with a bomb symbol in it in appeared when trying to get appleshare working. Upon activating more of the extensions, that problem was solved, but, after enabling more of the extensions, there was what appeared to be a memory problem which I didn't have before. The system kept hanging as the extensions loaded after booting; this, I understood, was indicative of a problem with the desktop, which I attempted rebuilding (after first booting with no extensions and turning all of the extensions off). Since I didn't have the software necessary to unhide and delete the finder preferences file, I ignored that step. Everything appeared to be working ok, until I shut the machine down and turned it back on at a later time. The problem of the machine hanging appeared again as the extensions were loading. After playing around with the extensions, turning some more of them off again, now the machine refuses to boot at all, just the little mac with a "?" appears on the screen. > IIe card. Nice. They're a lot of fun. It was a pleasantly surprising find. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 23 13:22:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media In-Reply-To: <3E7D38E1.B973F455@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Mar 22, 3 11:32:33 pm Message-ID: > CompacTape I and CompacTape II were completely identical > in every detail - except for for the colour of the name on the case. > Usually The "CompacTape" label was brown; the "CompacTape II" > was usually blue. Oh yes, DEC charged a fair bit more for the tape This convention -- brown for low-capacity, blue for high capacity -- was used on other DEC media of course (RL01 and RK06 packs have brown handles, RL02 and RK07 packs have blue handles). Although in that case there are differences other than the colour. -tony From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 23 13:52:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Strange/Wonderful Microchannel Vid - Aud caputre card Message-ID: I have here what looks like a Microchannel Video/Audio subsystem. It has a Lucent logo on the breakout box. It is a full-length card and 3/4 length daughter card full of PLD and ASICS and other fat SMD chips. There is a header and 20-way shielded ribbon cable. The breakout box has two 1/8" jacks marked LEFT - MICROPHONE - RIGHT and beneath that a slide switch for mono/stereo. Then two yellow RCAs marked 2 - VIDEO - 1 Beneath that are 8 RCAs in two groups, AUDIO 1 and 2, LEFT/RIGHT, INPUT/OUTPUT. On the boards themselves, the main board is marked 'PCI ENCODER VER4' in solder mask - one big visble chip has: "LSI" logo; L64745QC-30 JPEG CODER WK82164P NNG 9540 6A13COPBFAA Another similar chip nearby says "DCT PROCESSOR" Obviously this is a Video / Audio capture subsystem of some kind. It also is obviously an advanced prototype - the breakout box is a standard molded plastic 'project box' with 'Brother P-Touch' type lables on it. Anyway, rather than put it on eBay (undoubtedly finding out that I have a priceless artefact that will ensure my happy and contented retirement) I thought I'd just see if anybody here a.) recognizes it and b.) wants it... Cheers John PS: No, I haven't posted pix yet. I s'pose I could be coerced, tho.... From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Mar 23 15:31:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media References: Message-ID: <3E7E2709.C81E99B9@compsys.to> >Tony Duell wrote: > > CompacTape I and CompacTape II were completely identical > > in every detail - except for for the colour of the name on the case. > > Usually The "CompacTape" label was brown; the "CompacTape II" > > was usually blue. Oh yes, DEC charged a fair bit more for the tape > This convention -- brown for low-capacity, blue for high capacity -- was > used on other DEC media of course (RL01 and RK06 packs have brown > handles, RL02 and RK07 packs have blue handles). Although in that case > there are differences other than the colour. Jerome Fine replies: I would not mind at all if there were physical differences that were required by the TK70. But when the ONLY two differences were the "II" after the name "CompacTape" and the price, I tend to think that perhaps DEC was ... In addition, I also heard that in some cases, the TKQ50 controller was unable to use the drive in a satisfactory manner. In those cases the TKQ70 controller was needed for the TK50 drive. I have actually tried the TKQ70 / TK50 combination and it works quite well. It is still the TK50 drive with only the capacity of the TK50, but it does operate a bit faster. I realize that the TK70 drive arrived years after the TK50. Does anyone know if the device drivers that can use the TK50 can always use the TK70 as well? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 23 16:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems boards? In-Reply-To: <200303212001.PAA16028@parse.com> Message-ID: <20030323221537.97254.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert Krten wrote: > Prolly at least worthwhile for the 8085 and other spare parts... > I'm looking for 6802's (and 6821's) and having a hard time... 6821s are available for a couple of bucks from BG Micro. -ethan From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Mar 23 16:44:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: DEC Ethernet??? card Message-ID: <20030323222645.15269.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Just got one of these . . . if DEC fans want it you've got it for shipping. Looks like AUI and 10 base 2 outputs, barcode sticker has a number: 70-26691-01. FCC ID: A09DE100. Operators are standing by . . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 23 16:51:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Microchannel board gone Message-ID: The Microchannel Vid/Aud capture board thingy that I earlier advertised has been snarfed up like a raw chicken in a piranha pond. Just FYI - - - Cheerz John From kth at srv.net Sun Mar 23 17:57:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: DEC Ethernet??? card References: <20030323222645.15269.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <3E7E4FEF.3030303@srv.net> ghldbrd wrote: > Just got one of these . . . if DEC fans want it you've got it for > shipping. > Looks like AUI and 10 base 2 outputs, barcode sticker has a number: > 70-26691-01. FCC ID: A09DE100. > Operators are standing by . . . > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO Sounds like a DE-100. Should have BNC and an AUI connector on the back. Old, only does 10mbps, 16 bit ISA card, but not a cpu hog like some of the adapters were. Works great on older PC's (PC, XT, AT, 286, etc.). It is supported by Linux. Doesn't require a DEC PC, it should work on most brands with an ISA bus. To get a 10mb cat5 connection, you will need to buy a MAU, and move a big jumber on the card. I'd probably go with a $10.00 special at OfficeMax before going through that expense, and also get 100mbps for about the same price. I don't need any more (I still have several of these, and some DE-200's). Documentation for this is available on the intenet in several places. From at258 at osfn.org Sun Mar 23 18:39:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I dug through the stacks, and it says Kaypro Professional Computer, but I could have sworn it said 2000 somewhere, unless we have another machine and I'm confusing them. On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > Ours is grey, metal and clearly not a laptop. > > Odd. You must have something different. Is there a more descriptive > model number somewhere? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 23 18:51:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: HP 97935 Media Module (Disk Pack) In-Reply-To: <20030322131326.GA6977@stingray.er-grp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030321084132.45efd5b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030321084132.45efd5b8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030323195438.45afd814@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:13 PM 3/22/03 +0200, you wrote: >On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 08:41:32AM +0000, Joe wrote: >> Picked up two of these yesterday. Anyone know what drive they fit? They have seven platters and are roughly 12" in diameter. Marked 404 Mb. >> > >HP 7933 ? I don't have mine at home so can't check. Don't throw them away :-) I'm not. I added them to my "junk" storage. Joe From pietstan at rogers.com Sun Mar 23 18:53:01 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media References: <200303230728.h2N7SRMP002063@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3E7E55F8.6010405@rogers.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: <> >> >>The problem is I didn't get any tape media for my nice DLT tape drives >>and this stuff is so darn expensive if bought new. Any ideas? >> > > I really hope you didn't wreck that TZ86 and TZ88, thankfully these are the > DEC drives and I think they might be more forgiving than something like a > DLT2000 or DLT4000 drive. IIRC, the TZ86 is capable of reading TK50 and > TK70 tapes. There is a drastic difference between TK50/70 and DLT III & IV > media! I don't remember the specifics on the differences, part of it is > that it writes in a different manner, and part is that the tape is > different. > One DLT2000 drive I have is also labelled "Not TK50/TK70 certified". The implication of the label is that there may have been drives produced with better backwards compatibility. About newer DLT media: I've seen varying prices for the tapes on EPay, ranging from "good deal" status to "I'm sure I could find them new for that price!!". YMMV... From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Mar 23 19:44:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media References: <3E7E2709.C81E99B9@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3E7E6256.6090003@aurora.regenstrief.org> > Jerome Fine replies: > > I would not mind at all if there were physical differences that > were required by the TK70. But when the ONLY two differences > were the "II" after the name "CompacTape" and the price, I > tend to think that perhaps DEC was ... Yes, in the case of ComapcTape I vs. II DEC simply ripped people, but that's normal in the business. I am just amazed about how much corporate customers are willin to let themselves be ripped off by the Computer industry. How about a rack railkit for a $10000 FibreChannel switch for which they charge an additional $300 (for a few pieces of sheet metal with screws!) > In addition, I also heard that in some cases, the TKQ50 controller > was unable to use the drive in a satisfactory manner. In those cases > the TKQ70 controller was needed for the TK50 drive. I have > actually tried the TKQ70 / TK50 combination and it works quite > well. It is still the TK50 drive with only the capacity of the TK50, > but it does operate a bit faster. Yes, I tried it to in order to write a TK50 tape for my uVAX-II from my VAX6k. Now that I write this, I never really tried if writing to the /dev/mt2l device would have done the trick with writing TK50 format on TK70 drive. I doubt it would. > I realize that the TK70 drive arrived years after the TK50. Does > anyone know if the device drivers that can use the TK50 can always > use the TK70 as well? For all I know it's MSCP, so the driver may not be different. -Gunther From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Mar 23 19:50:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media References: <200303230728.h2N7SRMP002063@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3E7E63A1.7040902@aurora.regenstrief.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I really hope you didn't wreck that TZ86 and TZ88, thankfully these are the > DEC drives and I think they might be more forgiving than something like a > DLT2000 or DLT4000 drive. Hey Zane, I may be a UNIX weenie from your perspective, and I did take a day or two before I explored the DEC7000, and it will not run VMS, but I am not so crazy as to "wreck" good tape drives :-) I just wish the 20GB tape media wasn't almost as expensive as a 20 GB hard drive :-) cheers, -Gunther From dittman at dittman.net Sun Mar 23 20:41:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Tape media In-Reply-To: <3E7E63A1.7040902@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Mar 23, 2003 08:47:13 PM Message-ID: <20030324023831.0BBDD7F52@dittman.net> > > I really hope you didn't wreck that TZ86 and TZ88, thankfully these are the > > DEC drives and I think they might be more forgiving than something like a > > DLT2000 or DLT4000 drive. > > Hey Zane, I may be a UNIX weenie from your perspective, and I did take > a day or two before I explored the DEC7000, and it will not run VMS, > but I am not so crazy as to "wreck" good tape drives :-) I just wish > the 20GB tape media wasn't almost as expensive as a 20 GB hard drive > :-) DEC7000 systems can run VMS. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From drido at optushome.com.au Sun Mar 23 21:42:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: <20030323042308.GE38502@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030324142518.0106bb38@mail.optushome.com.au> At 11:23 PM 3/22/03 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know if this IIe card is faster than the original IIe? It >looks like a fun toy to play with. :-) From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Mar 23 23:41:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:33 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <002101c2eff5$5d9f6b70$992cfea9@softnerdhqpo000> Message-ID: <002901c2f1c7$94f36440$d63fcd18@D73KSM11> > > For the foreign audience, Al Haig was the U.S. Secretary of > State when > > President Reagan was shot. He achieved infamy by declaring > at a press > > conference "I'm in charge." > > Incorrect! The correct quote from Al Haig is: > > "I'm in charge, here." > > He said this responding to a reporters question, and through > his inflection and tone of voice, was intent to show that he was > in-charge at the White House. > Contemporaneous press reports indicate that the word used was "control". I don't know why leaving off a word before or after a quote makes the quotation "incorrect" complete with exclamation point, but I do think that getting a word wrong is, quite simply, wrong. -W United Press International March 31, 1981, Tuesday, PM cycle Copyright 1981 U.P.I. March 31, 1981, Tuesday, PM cycle SECTION: Washington News LENGTH: 507 words DATELINE: WASHINGTON BODY: Here is the chronology of the attack on President Reagan Monday: 2:20 p.m. -- Reagan completes address to the AFL-CIO Building and Construction Trades Department at the Washington Hilton Hotel. 2:28 p.m. -- Reagan emerges from the hotel and begins walking toward his limousine when, amidst a crowd cheering and reporters shouting questions, six gun shots ring out. White House Press Secretary James Brady, Washington policeman Thomas Delahanty and a Secret Service agent Timothy McCarthy are hit. 2:28 p.m. -- Secret Service agents shove Reagan into the limousine while other agents, with the aide of police, overcome the suspected assailant, later identified as John W. Hinckley Jr. 25, of Evergreen, Colo. 2:29 p.m. -- Hinckley, a college drop and drifter who recently has been under psychiatric care, is whisked away to District of Columbia police headquaters. A policeman there said, ''He looked dazed, like he didn't know what was going on.'' 2:32 p.m. -- Reagan enters emergency room at George Washington University Hospital. Two of other wounded are also brought there. 2:55 p.m. -- Vice President George Bush, on a speaking tour in Texas, is advised the president has been shot; he flies back to Washington. 3:15 p.m. -- The White House, which in the initial chaos reported that the president was not hit, says Reagan was struck by a bullet in the left chest. 3:37 p.m. -- White House staff director David Gergen tells a news briefing that Secretary of State Alexander Haig, Treasury Secretary Regan, Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and Attorney General William French Smith are on hand, but that no formal transfer of power was contemplated. 4:25 p.m. -- Reagan enters surgery at GW hospital, telling friends, ''Don't worry about me. I'll make it.'' 4:30 p.m. -- Haig tells reporters, ''As of now, I am in control here in the White House pending return of the vice president, and in close touch with him.'' 5:19 p.m. -- A 10-car police motorcade transfers Hinckly to a FBI's Buzzard's Point field office for questioning. 6:30 p.m. -- Surgery on the president is completed. Dr. Dennis O'Leary, head of GW's clinical surgery, tells reporters that the 70-year-old chief executive's ''prognosis is excellent,'' adding ''at no time was he in serious danger.'' 7 p.m. -- Vice President George Bush arrives at the White House. He tells reporters, ''I can reassure this nation and the watching world this nation is functioning fully and effectively.'' 8:15 p.m. -- White House press secretary Brady, who was shot through the brain, emerges from 4 -hour surgery. Lyn Nofziger, Reagan's political director, says ''His vital signs are stable. His pupillary reflexes -- that's the reflexes of his pupils in his eyes -- are normal. Dr. Kobrine feels there may be some impairment, but he doesn't know how much at this time, nor will he be able to know for quite some time.'' 11:52 p.m. -- Hinckley appears for a 43-minute hearing in U.S. District Court. He is ordered held without bond pending arraignment Thursday. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Mar 24 00:28:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT Message-ID: I used OnTrack to expand my old 486SX BBS system to its first (WD) 720MB hard drive. Worked like a champ! Prior to that, I'd had 2 drives -- a Maxtor @ 120MB, and a Seagate 340MB. Both fell inside the design specs. Adding the 720MB drive on IDE2 (didn't even have a CD then...) was a pain before discovering OnTrack. Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@docsbox.net] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 10:59 AM To: Classic Computers Subject: Re: MS DOS and disk drives maybe OT On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Please forgive me if this is Off Topic... > > > I have a 1 gig drive in a 486. The BIOS sees the whole 1.2 gig (wd > caviar 21200) > and I have set the parameters from the plate on the drive into the > bios... > > But FDISK insists that the drive is only 504 MB. Who ate half of my > disk drive?? Some BIOSen will only address 1024 cylinders, even if they "see" more. OnTrack, Drive Rocket, EZDrive, any of the drive overlay programs will get around that. -- Doc Shipley (( And when thou hack'st her box, thou shalt Austin, Texas )) lay that pipe with exceeding great vigour, (( yea, even unto the screaming and clawing doc@vaxen.net )) and biting. -- Cantrell From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Mar 24 00:32:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: new finds Message-ID: Dave? Could you please contact me offlist at ETILLMAN@satx.rr.com (ICQ10460417). Might be interested in some of your sales items. Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:dwoyciesjes@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:10 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; teoz@neo.rr.com ---ICQ# 905818 From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Mar 24 01:03:00 2003 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Tape media In-Reply-To: <3E7E63A1.7040902@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <200303230728.h2N7SRMP002063@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030324175935.028b6fe0@mail.vsm.com.au> At 08:47 PM 23/03/2003 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: >Hey Zane, I may be a UNIX weenie from your perspective, and I did take >a day or two before I explored the DEC7000, and it will not run VMS, >but I am not so crazy as to "wreck" good tape drives :-) I just wish >the 20GB tape media wasn't almost as expensive as a 20 GB hard drive I may be mis-parsing this, but I can certainly confirm that a DEC7000 will run OpenVMS. I used to manage a VMS cluster that had two VAX-6620s and a DEC7740 all running OpenVMS 6.2 very nicely. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Mar 24 02:48:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable References: Message-ID: <3E7EC58C.2080707@Vishay.com> Tony Duell wrote: >>AUI cable? - Oh yes, I do remember: when I was at the University of >>Darmstadt, getting those four pairs and all the shields into the shell >>of a 15-pin connector was the hardest test somebody had to stand before > > > I got the type of shell that's made in 2 halves, so I didn't have to feed > the cable through a small hole... That's what we used, too. However, it is still kind of an advanced exercise to cut the wires to a suitable length before stripping and soldering, so that after these steps they will fit into the small shell together with the strain relief clamp, in particular if you want the metalized shell to be properly grounded from the inside... If you had managed that for the first time, you would usually discover that you forgot to slip that rubber tube onto the cable to prevent it from breaking where it leaves the plug. If it happens when you managed the second time, then it's worse, because you cannot drop it in from the other end of the cable... - But this is nothing special with transceiver cable, it happens with all sort of cabling, all the time. It only seems to vary in proportion to the number of pins inside the connector... ;-) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From cb at mythtech.net Mon Mar 24 08:40:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card Message-ID: >I could use a copy myself, trying to get a stable system using system files >found on various hard drives is no fun. >Can anyone make it available for download? Preferably a .BIN image I can >burn on a PC or a self mounting image for the Mac (I don't have a CDR on >any of my macs). Putting 8.5 online for download may not be the greatest idea. Apple has NOT released it for free public access. You can get 7.5.3 for free from Apple's web site (as well as the .5 updater). That said, I am sure there are sites that already have 8.5 and other OS versions available to download. You just have to search thru the pirate sites. I can't quote any, but I'm 99.44% sure its available. -chris From jwest at kwcorp.com Mon Mar 24 08:43:01 2003 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: WANTED - VT52 Message-ID: <006d01c2f20a$71b865a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Greetings; In my endeavor to get my 11/44 totally up and running... I'd like to get a good condition VT52 terminal for the console. I have 3 VT52's but they are all in truely horrible shape, especially cosmetically. Does anyone have a spare VT52 in good condition that they would be willing to sell or trade for? Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Mar 24 09:12:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: OOPS - NOT vt52, VT100 Message-ID: <009c01c2f217$62229b80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sorry, posting too early in the morning has it's pitfalls :\ I'm looking for a good condition VT100, NOT a VT52. *sigh* Sorry! Jay West From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Mar 24 11:12:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Look at this - Message-ID: <200303241708.MAA6293121@shell.TheWorld.com> >2:28 p.m. -- Secret Service agents shove Reagan into the limousine while >other agents, with the aide of police, overcome the suspected assailant, >later identified as John W. Hinckley Jr. 25, of Evergreen, Colo. Minor piece of trivia... that year there was a TV show in its first season entitled "Greatest American Hero"... the hero's name was Hinckley. In the second airing of the opening episode, the name was covered over by a loud noise, like a plane taking off. Later in the season, his name was officially changed to Hanley... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ahs at hogrelius.nu Mon Mar 24 12:32:30 2003 From: ahs at hogrelius.nu (Anders Hogrelius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) startup In-Reply-To: <3E7D3D8D.3010609@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: You should be able to get a hobbyist license of Tru64 unix. Check http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/noncommercial-unix/ -- cheers, /Anders Pain is a thing of the mind. The mind can be controlled. -- Spock, "Operation -- Annihilate!" stardate 3287.2 ************************************************************************* * Anders Hogrelius Phone : +46 (0)70 6770210 * Tessingatan 12 E-mail: anders@hogrelius.nu * SE-72216 Vasteras Web: http://www.hogrelius.nu/~ahs/ * SWEDEN From bellbiz at bigpond.net.au Mon Mar 24 12:33:32 2003 From: bellbiz at bigpond.net.au (bellbiz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: FSOT: Sharp CE-126P printer and Cassette interface. Message-ID: <000601c2f176$71bb4b10$0200000a@rb> I am looking to purchase ten of these units. Your one will bring it down to 9. My offer to you is USD75.00 and I can pay you by Visa Credit Card; PayPal or do a bank TT direct into your nominated bank account. My name is Roger Bell contact me at bell77@bigpond.net.au From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Mon Mar 24 12:34:00 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: HP-86B Monitor question Message-ID: I have acquired an HP-86B. Will this work with any older composite monochrome monitor with an RCA video in jack or only the HP monitors which seem to be hard to find? Thank you From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Mar 24 12:34:27 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Strange/Wonderful Microchannel Vid - Aud caputre card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200303241027140079.6C4B43D5@192.168.42.129> Uhhh... John? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 23-Mar-03 at 14:49 John Lawson wrote: >I have here what looks like a Microchannel Video/Audio subsystem. It has >a Lucent logo on the breakout box. It is a full-length card and 3/4 >length daughter card full of PLD and ASICS and other fat SMD chips. There >is a header and 20-way shielded ribbon cable. I'm pretty sure that's a PCI card. Double-check the edge paddle. I can say this with confidence because you got it from me. ;-) Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Mar 24 13:19:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Strange/Wonderful Microchannel Vid - Aud caputre card In-Reply-To: <200303241027140079.6C4B43D5@192.168.42.129> References: <200303241027140079.6C4B43D5@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Bruce Lane wrote: > Uhhh... John? 'Allo - 'Allloooo... > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 23-Mar-03 at 14:49 John Lawson wrote: > > >I have here what looks like a Microchannel Video/Audio subsystem. It has Definitely a PCI card - my D'Oh! I have had my Inertials re-calibrated on this - I didn't re-list it because someone else wrote me privately expressing interest. If that doesn't work out, I'll put it up here on the List once again. I also have pix to send if someone wants, BTW. Yes, I got it from you. If I sell it for more than $10K on eBay, I'll offer you a percentage, but you'll have to sue me for it. MUAHHhahahaha! ;} Cheers John From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Mar 24 13:55:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Tape media References: <20030324023831.0BBDD7F52@dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E7F6212.3050809@aurora.regenstrief.org> I wrote: >>Hey Zane, I may be a UNIX weenie from your perspective, and I did take >>a day or two before I explored the DEC7000, and it will not run VMS, [...] Eric Dittman wrote: > DEC7000 systems can run VMS. I didn't say "this type of machine can't run VMS", I said "this machine will not run VMS" (and forgot to say: under my hands.) cheers, -Gunther From dittman at dittman.net Mon Mar 24 14:09:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Tape media In-Reply-To: <3E7F6212.3050809@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Mar 24, 2003 02:52:50 PM Message-ID: <20030324200623.867087F52@dittman.net> > >>Hey Zane, I may be a UNIX weenie from your perspective, and I did take > >>a day or two before I explored the DEC7000, and it will not run VMS, > [...] > > > DEC7000 systems can run VMS. > > I didn't say "this type of machine can't run VMS", I said "this > machine will not run VMS" (and forgot to say: under my hands.) That clears things up. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 24 16:06:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) startup In-Reply-To: from "Anders Hogrelius" at Mar 23, 2003 08:02:16 PM Message-ID: <200303242204.h2OM40hi013960@shell1.aracnet.com> > You should be able to get a hobbyist license of Tru64 unix. > > Check http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/noncommercial-unix/ THANK YOU! I've been looking for this link! I want to upgrade my V5.0 Hobbyist while I still can! Who knows how much longer this will be offered. ane From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Mon Mar 24 16:40:01 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: "tumble" TIFF/JPEG to PDF converter Message-ID: <4160.4.20.168.153.1048545444.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> There's finally an early release of "tumble", my GPL'd TIFF/JPEG to PDF converter: http://tumble.brouhaha.com/ There's a lot of work yet to be done, but enough of the basic functionality is there that it is useful for simple things. Two few examples of DEC Field Maintenance Print Sets for the VT52 and VT78 are available[*] at http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/doc/mp/ These files show the use of Tumble to produce PDF files from scanned images and create PDF bookmarks (aka outline) using a control file. The control file syntax is not yet documented, as it is undergoing change, but that provides an idea of what it can do. Eric [*] temporarily - they'll soon appear in a more appropriate place From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 24 16:44:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: CI trouble In-Reply-To: <3E7F8376.6070008@regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <000001c2f256$6f1d36d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > could never get any of my CI stuff to work. I tried under > ULTRIX 4.5 just to ping through the SCS (?) IP > physical/data-link layer but to no avail. Don't get any > errors configuring the interface and pinging, just no host Is this supposed to work? I have no idea; I do know that it was possible to use DECnet over CI under OpenVMS, but I don't recall ever seeing that as a possibility for the VMS IP stack. Is Ultrix supposed to be able to do this? > reachable. I may not have the CI nodes configured right, I > may need to figure out how to plug the jumpers on the VAXBI backplane. According to my notes, I have a CIBCA manual somewhere. It's not scanned, so that means it may take me some time to find it (otherwise it would have been scanned by now!). Hopefully someone will dig one out soon, otherwise I'll have ahunt around at the weekend. > Two additional observations: my HSC90 reports K.ci status 111 > and the CI LINK module tells me it is not happy. Also, when I > try to boot any of the VAXen from media that I don't think is > really bootable, I get some funny error on the console: > "Insufficient memory for CI" (even though I have full boat of > memory 0.5 GB in each VAX.) Could everyone be unhappy about > something strange in the CI system? Only two hits in google, one is you from a while ago, the other is this: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1999/08/20/0004.html If your message looks like that (i.e. it starts %BOOT-F) then it is either VMB or BOOT58 that is whining at you. So it's not Ultrix, but the stage before that which tries to get an OS started. If I cannot find the CIBCA manual, I'll see if I can find anything else that might have relevant info in. I do have an HSC9x Installation Manual scan somewhere and maybe some other HSC9x bits and bobs. One thing I recall is that some of the later adapters were capable of extra smarts, like 4K packets and being able to use both CI paths simultaneously. The CIBCA is probably old enough that it cannot do this. My recollection is that, for most things, the newer stuff would "fall back" to the previous mode and all would work (albeit suboptimally) but I'm sure there were some settings that needed to be consistent throughout the setup. Right now the details elude me. However, it might be worth trying just the two VAXen in the cluster to start with (i.e. pull out the StingRay and the HSC95) and see if the VAXen can see each other at all. Naturally, I'd boot OpenVMS and cluster them to prove it works, but I suspect you'd prefer a different approach :-) Obviously, if your only attached drives are connected over the CI, then you may have to think of something else! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ncsiusa at stny.rr.com Mon Mar 24 17:01:00 2003 From: ncsiusa at stny.rr.com (Jim Shank) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: ampex 8k by 16 bit core memory Message-ID: <000801c2f24c$d9e82060$6601a8c0@stny.rr.com> Is there any place to buy Ampex core memory part number 3276194-01...jim shank http://server28.hypermart.net/ncsiusa From eric-nospam-117 at brouhaha.com Mon Mar 24 17:01:57 2003 From: eric-nospam-117 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: "tumble" TIFF/JPEG to PDF converter Message-ID: <4071.4.20.168.153.1048545058.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> There's finally an early release of "tumble", my GPL'd TIFF/JPEG to PDF converter: http://tumble.brouhaha.com/ There's a lot of work yet to be done, but enough of the basic functionality is there that it is useful for simple things. Two few examples of DEC Field Maintenance Print Sets for the VT52 and VT78 are available[*] at http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/doc/mp/ These files show the use of Tumble to produce PDF files from scanned images and create PDF bookmarks (aka outline) using a control file. The control file syntax is not yet documented, as it is undergoing change, but that provides an idea of what it can do. Eric [*] temporarily - they'll soon appear in a more appropriate place From gschadow at regenstrief.org Mon Mar 24 17:02:26 2003 From: gschadow at regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: CI trouble Message-ID: <3E7F8376.6070008@regenstrief.org> Hi, I have hooked up 2 VAX6k and 1 HSC90 and one MTI StingRay CI-SCSI adapter to my two star couplers all properly. Still I could never get any of my CI stuff to work. I tried under ULTRIX 4.5 just to ping through the SCS (?) IP physical/data-link layer but to no avail. Don't get any errors configuring the interface and pinging, just no host reachable. I may not have the CI nodes configured right, I may need to figure out how to plug the jumpers on the VAXBI backplane. Two additional observations: my HSC90 reports K.ci status 111 and the CI LINK module tells me it is not happy. Also, when I try to boot any of the VAXen from media that I don't think is really bootable, I get some funny error on the console: "Insufficient memory for CI" (even though I have full boat of memory 0.5 GB in each VAX.) Could everyone be unhappy about something strange in the CI system? Otherwise: - who knows how the CIBCA is configured with the jumpers? - who knows how best to debug CIBCA under Ultrix or VMS? - who knows how to set up (and debug!) IP over CI on Ultrix? (I do not dare ask about IP over CI on VMS, but appreciate if there are answers.) I also have a VAX6000 Diagnostics tape (TK50) which I should be using. I tried booting from it but I get this "insufficient memory for CI" error soon after the first few blocks are read from tape. I also didn't see much in the way of VMB.EXE on that tape. Anyone know what to do with a VAX6k diagnostics tape? Do I need to use it under VMS? (PS: if someone needs VAX6k diagnostics, I could help :-) regards, -Gunther From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Mon Mar 24 17:23:01 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3801A166-5E4F-11D7-9D12-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> I just wanted to say that I received my book today. Thanks Jim! On Thursday, March 13, 2003, at 09:57 PM, David Betz wrote: > Has anyone heard from James Willing lately? I ordered something from > his garage sale but have been unable to reach him by email to confirm > that he received my payment. From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Mar 24 17:36:00 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: CI trouble In-Reply-To: <000001c2f256$6f1d36d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > could never get any of my CI stuff to work. I tried under > > ULTRIX 4.5 just to ping through the SCS (?) IP > > physical/data-link layer but to no avail. Don't get any > > errors configuring the interface and pinging, just no host > > Is this supposed to work? I have no idea; I do know that it was > possible to use DECnet over CI under OpenVMS, but I don't recall > ever seeing that as a possibility for the VMS IP stack. Is > Ultrix supposed to be able to do this? Yes, Ultrix can run IP over CI. > Right now the details elude me. However, it might be worth > trying just the two VAXen in the cluster to start with (i.e. pull > out the StingRay and the HSC95) and see if the VAXen can see each > other at all. Naturally, I'd boot OpenVMS and cluster them to > prove it works, but I suspect you'd prefer a different approach :-) > Obviously, if your only attached drives are connected over the CI, > then you may have to think of something else! Minimizing the configuration is always a good start. I'd start with one VAX, and the HSC95. The HSC can give some diagnostics and information of the CI which can be useful. One suggestion is to make sure that all nodes have different addresses, and that all are under 16, unless they all are configured for a 32-node CI. Other obvious things are to make sure the cables really are connected correctly. TX to TX and RX to RX, channel A and B separate, and so on. Also, while Gunther don't mention it, I hope (and assume) that there is a star coupler in the middle. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 24 17:44:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Cable In-Reply-To: <3E7EC58C.2080707@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Mar 24, 3 09:45:00 am Message-ID: > If you had managed that for the first time, you would usually discover > that you forgot to slip that rubber tube onto the cable to prevent it Been there, done that, got a semi-infinite number of T-shirts :-) It's particularly annoying wben I forget to fit the outer cover of a mini-DIN plug before soldering and sleeving all the wires, but then mini-DIN plugs are always annouying! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 24 17:45:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: HP-86B Monitor question In-Reply-To: from "RHahm" at Mar 24, 3 01:33:01 pm Message-ID: > I have acquired an HP-86B. Will this work with any older composite > monochrome monitor with an RCA video in jack or only the HP monitors which > seem to be hard to find? I have a feeling in the back of my mind that the output _is_ composite video, but at a strange horizontal scan rate. Which means you can't use just any monitor with it. I have one of the real HP monitors (actually an NEC unit), and 3 HP86Bs. Sometime I must dig them out and measure the scan rates, etc. -tony From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Mar 24 18:31:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: HP-86B Monitor question In-Reply-To: "RHahm"'s message of "Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:33:01 -0500" References: Message-ID: <200303250003.h2P03Fwc035740@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "RHahm" wrote: > I have acquired an HP-86B. Will this work with any older composite > monochrome monitor with an RCA video in jack or only the HP monitors which > seem to be hard to find? I haven't had my 86A out in a while, but when I did I was using an Amdek monitor with it, and I believe it was standard horizontal scan rate. -Frank McConnell From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 24 18:48:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: HP-86B Monitor question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030324195118.1217a5c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I haven't tried a "standard" composite monitor I don't think it will work. I KNOW they won't work with an Apple composite monitor. I've also tried them with a multi-sync VGA monitor with a sync on green BNC input and that didn't work either. There are two HP monitors that will work, the HP 82912 and 82913. The only difference between the two is that the 82912 is smaller. It has about an 8" screen and the 82913 has about a 13" screen. Note that the 82912/82913 use a BNC input connector. IIRC the HP-86 uses a RCA (phono-plug) connector. HP uses a cable that has a BNC fitting on one end and a phono plug on the other. Some of the HP 9000 series 200 computers use the same monitors and cable. Some of the 9000 series 300 computers use the same monitor but have BNC connnector so they use a cable with two BNC connectors. Joe At 01:33 PM 3/24/03 -0500, you wrote: >I have acquired an HP-86B. Will this work with any older composite >monochrome monitor with an RCA video in jack or only the HP monitors which >seem to be hard to find? > >Thank you From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Mon Mar 24 19:22:01 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: HP-86B Monitor question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030324195118.1217a5c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030324195118.1217a5c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4744.4.20.168.153.1048555196.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe Rigdon writes: > I haven't tried a "standard" composite monitor I don't think it will > work. I KNOW they won't work with an Apple composite monitor. I haven't tried it, but I can't imagine any good reason why it shouldn't work. > I've also tried them with a multi-sync VGA monitor with a sync on green > BNC input and that didn't work either. Won't work because 99.99% of multi-sync VGA monitors have a minimum horizontal scan rate of around 31.5 KHz, which is about twice the standard RS-170 or NTSC horizontal rate. > There are two HP monitors > that will work, the HP 82912 and 82913. Those both operate at standard RS-170 or NTSC rate, as do the Apple monitors that accept composite video. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 24 19:58:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: Osborne Message-ID: Adam Osborne is dead. Osborne Books (sold, became Osborne McGraw Hill) Osborne Computer (when you brag too much about your NEXT product, you kill sales of the current one) Paperback Software (killed by Lotus for being a Visi-clone too similar to their Visi-clone) From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Mar 24 20:00:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:34 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?) Message-ID: <3E7FB7AE.7090700@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I was looking at a vendor site and it looks like they are offering an DEC 11/750 for $158.76. It's not quite clear, but since I don't have room for one I cannot simply order it. If you want it for the price, you can go on their web site to just order it and then call and ask them that you want to pick it up, that way you can find out what really they offer here and if it's not a real 11/750 system you can jump off (but if it is, you have a pretty good price.) regards, -Gunther From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Mar 24 20:02:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?) References: <3E7FB7AE.7090700@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3E7FB84F.4090806@aurora.regenstrief.org> Oops, it's not in TX, it's in Melbourne, FL and here is the URL http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE:4cPlistCKIE:prod11/750+ minimum QTY is 2. Hmm, very strange :-) -Gunther Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I was looking at a vendor site and it looks like they are offering an > DEC 11/750 for $158.76. It's not quite clear, but since I don't have > room for one I cannot simply order it. If you want it for the price, > you can go on their web site to just order it and then call and ask > them that you want to pick it up, that way you can find out what > really they offer here and if it's not a real 11/750 system you can > jump off (but if it is, you have a pretty good price.) > > regards, > -Gunther From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Mar 24 20:17:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: CI trouble In-Reply-To: <3E7F8376.6070008@regenstrief.org> Message-ID: There are a number of show commands in the crash (8) debugger which deal with SCS, MSCP and the like. Might be worth looking at. On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I get some funny error on the console: "Insufficient memory for CI" > (even though I have full boat of memory 0.5 GB in each VAX.) Could > everyone be unhappy about something strange in the CI system? -- From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Mar 24 20:45:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Take Two or Nothing (was: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?)) In-Reply-To: <3E7FB84F.4090806@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <3E7FB7AE.7090700@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3E7FB84F.4090806@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20030325030950.GB40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Gunther Schadow, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 09:00:47PM -0500: > minimum QTY is 2. Hmm, very strange :-) Funny thing, that reminds me of how I acquired two PERQ-T2 chasis, over a decade ago. While at a hamfest and looking for a UNIX box, I saw a maching that had already been sold, but the seller told me about a local warehouse where I could obtain another one. The machine turned out to be a PERQ graphics workstation, and was not runnign UNIX... although I did eventually get a copy of PNX to run on it. Anyway, when I got to the warehouse, the seller told me that I couldn't buy the one complete machine unless I also hauled away the chassis of another PERQ-T2. Note: these are not small. Smaller than a VAX 11/750, but much larger, and heavier (about 150 lbs, IIRC) than a PeeCee. To make things more interesting, the machines had to be taken out of the building from a shipping platform, which was many feet higher than the tailgate of the station wagon... so, they had to be lowered by hand from the taller than usual shipping platform. The PERQ's (Keytronix, IIRC) keyboard decided to dive off the top of the PERQ on the loading platform into the asphalt below. The only damage was a barely noticeable flattened area on one corner of the keyboard! It wasn't long before I was on my way home with two T2 chasis, a 19" monitor and a keyboard. It's a good thing that real station wagons (which are, alas, no longer made) have lots of cargo space. The only problem was that, with the tailgate window blocked by the PERQs, I could only see PERQs in the rearview mirror, which made the 20+ mile drive home, on the highway, fun. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Mon Mar 24 20:50:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Osborne References: Message-ID: <3E7FC2B2.88F67494@verizon.net> Sorry to hear that. Seems like quite a guy. Eric "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Adam Osborne is dead. > > Osborne Books (sold, became Osborne McGraw Hill) > Osborne Computer (when you brag too much about your NEXT product, you kill > sales of the current one) > Paperback Software (killed by Lotus for being a Visi-clone too similar to > their Visi-clone) From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Mar 24 20:54:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Take Two or Nothing (was: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?)) In-Reply-To: <20030325030950.GB40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: on 3/24/03 9:09 PM, R. D. Davis at rdd@rddavis.org wrote: > It's a good thing that real station wagons (which are, alas, no longer made) > have lots of cargo space. The only problem was that, with the tailgate window > blocked by the PERQs, I could only see PERQs in the rearview mirror, which > made the 20+ mile drive home, on the highway, fun. :-) My PDP-11/34, in a 5' white DEC rack came home in the back of a station wagon. Getting it in there wasn't so bad, but getting it out wasn't easy. My Honeywell 316 rack was also brought home in the back of the same station wagon. It works, but I wouldn't recommend it. :-) -- Owen Robertson From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 21:55:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Owen Robertson wrote: > on 3/24/03 9:09 PM, R. D. Davis at rdd@rddavis.org wrote: > > > It's a good thing that real station... have lots of cargo space. The > > only problem was that, with the tailgate window blocked by the PERQs, > > I could only see PERQs in the rearview mirror, > > My PDP-11/34, in a 5' white DEC rack came home in the back of a station > wagon. I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC racks (72" tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. -ethan From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 24 22:11:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: IF/65 Developement System II Message-ID: <200303250407.UAA16184@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm looking for a users manual for a IF/65 Developement System II by Infotron. It is an ICE box for 6502's. Any information on this would be great. It is designed to be connected to a terminal and a modem. It looks like it can also be run stand-alone. Dwight From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Mar 24 22:24:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030325044855.GC40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 07:52:52PM -0800: > I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC racks (72" > tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. Neat! But, didn't that put quite a strain on the bus? I never realized that they were built to be able to transport loads like that. Hopefully your bus has less rust on the structural components than my '67 VW Beetle. When I hear the word Microbus, I can't help thinking about that 1970's country/trucking song "Convoy." Hey, a convoy of computer collectors driving Microbuses and old station wagons, etc., loaded with computers, assorted electronic bits, and using CB radions, would be neat! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Mar 24 22:42:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <20030325044855.GC40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <004b01c2f288$84fd9300$0181a8c0@k4jcw> http://www.techren.net/mccall/ There's a number of the MP3s available on the site (legal), 2 CDs are available through Amazon, and American Gramaphone has another. I recently "discovered" his other songs besides 'Convoy', and grabbed everything I could. 'The Silverton' is one of my favorites. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 23:49 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) > > > Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at > 07:52:52PM -0800: > > I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC > racks (72" > > tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. > > Neat! But, didn't that put quite a strain on the bus? I never > realized that they were built to be able to transport loads like that. > Hopefully your bus has less rust on the structural components than my > '67 VW Beetle. > > When I hear the word Microbus, I can't help thinking about that 1970's > country/trucking song "Convoy." Hey, a convoy of computer collectors > driving Microbuses and old station wagons, etc., loaded with > computers, assorted electronic bits, and using CB radions, would be > neat! :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans > & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're > above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using > dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much > human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 24 22:45:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Owen Robertson wrote: > > on 3/24/03 9:09 PM, R. D. Davis at rdd@rddavis.org wrote: > > > > > It's a good thing that real station... have lots of cargo space. The > > > only problem was that, with the tailgate window blocked by the PERQs, > > > I could only see PERQs in the rearview mirror, > > > > My PDP-11/34, in a 5' white DEC rack came home in the back of a station > > wagon. > > I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC racks (72" > tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. I brought home an IBM AS/400 (plus a butt-load and a half of other stuff from the TRW swap and other various sources) in the back seat of a 4-door Honda Civic. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 24 22:57:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <20030325044855.GC40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030324233843.02411138@mail.30below.com> At 23:48 03/24/2003 -0500, you wrote: [snip] Altho the station wagons of days gone by could handle pretty decent loads, they always had the rear-view mirrors of a car... so I'll keep my full-size 4x4, thanks! (horrible gas mileage & all...) >When I hear the word Microbus, I can't help thinking about that 1970's >country/trucking song "Convoy." Hey, a convoy of computer collectors >driving Microbuses and old station wagons, etc., loaded with >computers, assorted electronic bits, and using CB radions, would be >neat! :-) Dunno if you've actually listened to CB lately, but IMHO, the AM waves in that band are full of idiots. The never should have taken away the licensing restrictions on that band... [[ and yes, I used to know 90%+ of the 10-codes... my dad's a trucker, so I learned young. My handle was the "Whiz-Kid"]] My dad still has a CB (for channel 9...) but never uses it anymore -- because of the low S:N ratio. I've asked him if he'd be interested in getting his ham radio license (I'm AB8KK) but he'd rather spend any left-over money he's got on his Harley. :-) Me: When I hear "VW Microbus" I always think of Arlo Guthrie's _Alice's Restaurant_... Now *that's* a song... ;-) To try to bring this ontopic - every time my friend moves his (rather heavy) Viewsonic 19" monitor, he complains about it's weight. (He does on-site digital photography; I help him out some weekends.) I remind him that I have a 17" that's just as heavy. He doesn't believe me. (The one for my VaxStation 3100). Some nite I'll have him over for a beer, and teach 'im a lesson... ;-) Then I'll let him pick up my DEC 19"... ;-) Who says classic computers can't be a) educational & b) rewarding... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 24 23:02:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Hamvention Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030324235137.00a88c58@mail.30below.com> Somewhat ontopic: Anyone else here planning on going to Hamvention 2003 in Dayton, OH? It's looking like I'm going to be able to go this year, and was wondering what's the best way for a coupla newbies to get around to best experience this, without spending all day running in circles... [[ And altho I won't have my truck, I'll have my wife's van -- which has big mirrors, in addition to a 1/2 ton truck frame, so 3 other adults & I will still have *lots* of storage for goodies... ;-) ]] Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 23:10:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Hamvention In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030324235137.00a88c58@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20030325050759.5428.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > Somewhat ontopic: > > Anyone else here planning on going to Hamvention 2003 in Dayton, OH? Me, Friday, at least. I'm typically double-booked that weekend, so for the past few years, I've missed Saturdays. Sometimes I get back soon enough for a Sunday afternoon's scrounging. > wondering what's the best way for a coupla newbies to get around to best > experience this, without spending all day running in circles... I like to: a) get there before opening on Friday and get a decent space near enough to make trips to. b) start at one corner of the flea market and run patterns up and down the rows. c) make at least two trips back to the car. d) Bring a checkbook (being semi-local, sometimes people take checks from hams - the call sign means you *can* be located). e) Bring wads of small bills - nothing kills haggling faster than having to also bum for change. f) Bring at least a sturdy bag or two (canvas) or backpack. Wheels are nice if you plan to buy things with linear power supplies or CRTs. g) Bring 2m radios to keep in touch (or FRS and/or cell phone if not everyone in the party is a ham). h) Bring sunscreen *and* an umbrella... you'll need one or both for sure. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 23:16:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <20030325044855.GC40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030325051326.35495.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 07:52:52PM > -0800: > > I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC racks (72" > > tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. > > Neat! But, didn't that put quite a strain on the bus? I never > realized that they were built to be able to transport loads like that. No problem... 2 x H960 1 x 11/34 3 x RL02 2 x RX02 1 x MINC-11 papertape & floppies That's about 5-6 passengers worth of mass. The racks rode empty on the back deck, the contents rode on the floor below (no middle bench seat). > Hopefully your bus has less rust on the structural components than my > '67 VW Beetle. It's in much nicer shape than my '68 Beetle (that needs new floors/ heater channels). > When I hear the word Microbus, I can't help thinking about that 1970's > country/trucking song "Convoy." Did they even mention Microbuses? That song make me think of "pick-em-up trucks". -ethan From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Mar 24 23:17:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Hamvention In-Reply-To: <20030325050759.5428.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030324235137.00a88c58@mail.30below.com> <20030325050759.5428.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030325054156.GE40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 09:07:59PM -0800: > > wondering what's the best way for a coupla newbies to get around to best > > experience this, without spending all day running in circles... > I like to: [...] > h) Bring sunscreen *and* an umbrella... you'll need one or both > for sure. i) Clear some space in the house before you leave so that you won't have the "Uh-oh, where can I find room for that car-load of new toys?" problem when you arrive home. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Mar 24 23:22:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Owen Robertson wrote: > > on 3/24/03 9:09 PM, R. D. Davis at rdd@rddavis.org wrote: > > > > > It's a good thing that real station... have lots of cargo space. The > > > only problem was that, with the tailgate window blocked by the PERQs, > > > I could only see PERQs in the rearview mirror, > > My PDP-11/34, in a 5' white DEC rack came home in the back of a station > > wagon. > I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC racks (72" > tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. I moved a pair of Sun 4/470 cabinets (IPI2 disk and cardcage) in the back of a three door Toyota Starlet hatchback with a 1.0L engine. I damaged the left-rear shock, its never really quite been the same since. I moved the remaining six 4/260 cabinets with a borrowed van after I came to my senses ;) JP From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Mon Mar 24 23:40:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Osborne In-Reply-To: <3E7FC2B2.88F67494@verizon.net> References: <3E7FC2B2.88F67494@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20030325053704.120717B5E@www.fastmail.fm> Indeed, the man was quite a genius in his time. Sometimes it makes me wonder what the computer world (especially the portables market!) would be like if he had never joined the business. That's some food for thought, huh? > Sorry to hear that. Seems like quite a guy. > > > Eric > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > Adam Osborne is dead. > > > > Osborne Books (sold, became Osborne McGraw Hill) > > Osborne Computer (when you brag too much about your NEXT product, you kill > > sales of the current one) > > Paperback Software (killed by Lotus for being a Visi-clone too similar to > > their Visi-clone) > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Mar 24 23:41:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030324233843.02411138@mail.30below.com> References: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030324233843.02411138@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20030325060552.GF40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Roger Merchberger, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 11:50:24PM -0500: > Altho the station wagons of days gone by could handle pretty decent loads, > they always had the rear-view mirrors of a car... so I'll keep my full-size > 4x4, thanks! (horrible gas mileage & all...) Do you get less than 12 MPG on the highway and about 7 MPG or less in the suburbs or cities? If not, then you might want to trade up to something with lower gas mileage that can shock more people. :-) Funny thing... the fuel economy sticker in the station wagon's window, when it was new and on the dealer's lot, read something like 18 MPG, but I don't think this was ever achieved (is it possible for a 351C engine to ever achieve mileage like that when the car weighs over 5000 lbs?) > Dunno if you've actually listened to CB lately, but IMHO, the AM waves in > that band are full of idiots. The never should have taken away the > licensing restrictions on that band... [[ and yes, I used to know 90%+ of Agreed. CB radio has gone from fun to annoying. Between the idiots in the inner city who never shut up and those with high-power transmitters, it's nearly impossible to even a CB radio within a few miles, or more, of the city. > the 10-codes... my dad's a trucker, so I learned young. My handle was the > "Whiz-Kid"]] My dad still has a CB (for channel 9...) but never uses it > anymore -- because of the low S:N ratio. Thats why I keep one as well, in case the cell phone isn't working. However, I wonder if it would even work with all of the high-power transmitters blocking other people out. > To try to bring this ontopic - every time my friend moves his (rather > heavy) Viewsonic 19" monitor, he complains about it's weight. (He does > on-site digital photography; I help him out some weekends.) I remind him > that I have a 17" that's just as heavy. He doesn't believe me. (The one for The HP 98789 is rather heavy as well... it sure takes up a lot of space for a 17" monitor, and is possibly one it's way to being offered to a new home if I can't find some place to store it where it isn't in the way of something else. > my VaxStation 3100). Some nite I'll have him over for a beer, and teach 'im > a lesson... ;-) Then I'll let him pick up my DEC 19"... ;-) Who says Oooooh,.. cruel! ...to the monitor, that is. After all, what if he drops it? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Mar 24 23:50:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: HP-86B Monitor question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030324195118.1217a5c2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000c01c2f292$00874fd0$d63fcd18@D73KSM11> > Note that the 82912/82913 use a BNC input connector. IIRC > the HP-86 uses a RCA (phono-plug) connector. HP uses a cable > that has a BNC fitting on one end and a phono plug on the > other. Some of the HP 9000 series 200 computers use the same > monitors and cable. Some of the 9000 series 300 computers use > the same monitor but have BNC connnector so they use a cable > with two BNC connectors. > > Joe > My HP 82912A has an RCA input - maybe that has something to do with the "A" suffix? My 86s work with both the Apple and HP composite monitors. It's the 9920 (aka 9000/220) that uses the 30kHz horizontal sync instead of the usual 15kHz and requires one of the special HP models, such as the HP 35731A. -W From jss at subatomix.com Tue Mar 25 00:33:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030324233843.02411138@mail.30below.com> References: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030324233843.02411138@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1986950748.20030325003007@subatomix.com> On Monday, March 24, 2003, Roger Merchberger wrote: > My dad still has a CB (for channel 9...) but never uses it anymore I attempted to use CB channel 9 once, about 8 years ago when I happened upon the scene of an auto accident. Nobody responded. I don't think anyone was listening. -- Jeffrey Sharp From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 25 00:35:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) In-Reply-To: <20030325060552.GF40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030324233843.02411138@mail.30below.com> <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030324233843.02411138@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030325011536.027383e8@mail.30below.com> At 01:05 03/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe Roger Merchberger, from writings of Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 11:50:24PM >-0500: > > Altho the station wagons of days gone by could handle pretty decent loads, > > they always had the rear-view mirrors of a car... so I'll keep my > full-size > > 4x4, thanks! (horrible gas mileage & all...) > >Do you get less than 12 MPG on the highway and about 7 MPG or less in >the suburbs or cities? If not, then you might want to trade up to >something with lower gas mileage that can shock more people. :-) I've been wanting a new Avalanche... ;-) (well, everything *except* the pricetag/payments...) > Funny >thing... the fuel economy sticker in the station wagon's window, when >it was new and on the dealer's lot, read something like 18 MPG, but I >don't think this was ever achieved (is it possible for a 351C engine >to ever achieve mileage like that when the car weighs over 5000 lbs?) Dunno -- the last new vehicle I bought was a '89 S-15 mini-pickup, with a grand total of 3 options: rally wheels (the not *quite* ugly ones), split-rear window, and high-output alternator. No, it didn't even have a radio or lighter. Sticker said 26 Highway, I usually got 29-33. My 6000lb. truck I got used, fairly low mileage -- 350ci, Z71 offroad package... if I kept my foot out of the fuel-injection (<65mph) I could get 17-18 highway, but as the speedo climbed over 70, the mileage dipped... (and yes, I can tell you that at 115mph for 20 miles, I don't think I got 10mph... long, offtopic story... but it *was* an emergency. BTW, the truck had over 100K at that time, so it's a credit to Chevy's engineering... 140K now, gets 15hwy, and still starts NP w/o block heater at -30F. Yes, there's a reason for my email domain!) > > the 10-codes... my dad's a trucker, so I learned young. My handle was the > > "Whiz-Kid"]] My dad still has a CB (for channel 9...) but never uses it > > anymore -- because of the low S:N ratio. > >Thats why I keep one as well, in case the cell phone isn't working. >However, I wonder if it would even work with all of the high-power >transmitters blocking other people out. My Ham radio rig kept my bacon outta the fire more than a few times... ;-) > > To try to bring this ontopic - every time my friend moves his (rather > > heavy) Viewsonic 19" monitor, he complains about it's weight. (He does > > on-site digital photography; I help him out some weekends.) I remind him > > that I have a 17" that's just as heavy. He doesn't believe me. (The one > for > > my VaxStation 3100). Some nite I'll have him over for a beer, and teach > 'im > > a lesson... ;-) Then I'll let him pick up my DEC 19"... ;-) Who says > >Oooooh,.. cruel! ...to the monitor, that is. After all, what if he >drops it? He used to lay block & work construction... I wouldn't want him on the wrong side of a barfight... ;-) [ granted, that still doesn't stop him from bitching about the weight of his monitors... ] Considering by 35 I've had 2 heart attacks [10 years ago] and haven't been as serious as I should be about reclaiming my musculature since; the monitor's in a lot more danger when I pick it up than if he does... Gaak... 16 hours behind these damn things... I'm headed for the rack! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Mar 25 02:06:07 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?) In-Reply-To: <3E7FB84F.4090806@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 09:00 PM, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Oops, it's not in TX, it's in Melbourne, FL and here is the URL > > http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/ > checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE:4cPlistCKIE:prod11/750+ > > minimum QTY is 2. Hmm, very strange :-) Hey, now THAT'S tempting. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I've grown hair again, just St. Petersburg, FL for the occasion." -Doc Shipley From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Mar 25 03:47:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c2f2b3$772b4f30$0100a8c0@benchbox> I do believe that is right. Xerox Palo Alto (Parc) created the GUI and the mouse on the Alto series of machines iirc. IIRC, Sun Microsystems is the only company I'm aware of which pays Xerox a fee to license these concepts. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of vance@neurotica.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:46 PM To: Hans Franke Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Look at this - Didn't Xerox or someone like that invent the GUI? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 25 08:20:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030325141726.23622.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 09:00 PM, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Oops, it's not in TX, it's in Melbourne, FL and here is the URL > > > > http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/ > > checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE:4cPlistCKIE:prod11/750+ > > > > minimum QTY is 2. Hmm, very strange :-) > > Hey, now THAT'S tempting. :-) Do they come in a six-pack? :-) -ethan From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Mar 25 08:23:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Osborne Message-ID: Ah, yes, I got my start in computers on with an Osborne 1. $1795 _with_ software was such a deal at the time. The screen was small and the ~90KB the floppies held made for some interesting disk juggling (I wrote a MailMerge program so I could print my papers that were longer than ~15 pages -- 30KB -- with continuous page numbering), but it was a computer that I could afford. I even took it to Peru for the archaeological projects I worked on. The computers today may be faster and the programs can do more (often _too much_, IMHO), but the Osborne 1 met my needs quite well, thank you. Bob One obit: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/29921.html -----Original Message----- From: David Vohs [mailto:netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Osborne Indeed, the man was quite a genius in his time. Sometimes it makes me wonder what the computer world (especially the portables market!) would be like if he had never joined the business. That's some food for thought, huh? > Sorry to hear that. Seems like quite a guy. > > > Eric > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > Adam Osborne is dead. > > > > Osborne Books (sold, became Osborne McGraw Hill) > > Osborne Computer (when you brag too much about your NEXT product, you kill > > sales of the current one) > > Paperback Software (killed by Lotus for being a Visi-clone too similar to > > their Visi-clone) > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different... From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 25 09:07:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Computing "in the field" (was RE: Osborne) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030325150502.91014.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > Ah, yes, I got my start in computers on with an Osborne 1... > I even took it to Peru for the archaeological projects I worked > on. Interesting. We took Kaypros (one 2, and later, a 10, IIRC) to the dig I worked on in College (1985, 1987, 1989). One of our guys tried to write a program to graph our results on-site, but those efforts didn't appear to be rewarding (we were using non- invasive survey techniques with a soil resistivity box that I had to keep repairing, and a proton magnetometer) -ethan From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Mar 25 10:02:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> Well, I hooked my VT420 (9600.8.N.1) to the VAX, and got no reaction on the terminal. The LED diplay on the CPU card started at F, then flipped A, and sat there. On the CPU card, there are two switches, and I don't know what they do. I've tried different switch combinations, to no avail... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/Mvc-113f.jpg On the left side is a 2 position switch, upper position has a dot inside a circle, and the lower position has the dot above the circle. That's the setting it came at. There is also a triangle, pointed down, inside a circle immediatley below the switch. On the right is a 3 position rotary switch.1st position is a little face type of character, second is an arrow pointing right (this is selected), and the third is a circle with a T inside of it. There is an arrowhead on the circle, makes me think it's a looping test setting? Can anybody help me out quick to decipher these? I'm trying to get this booted, to see what's on it, before John picks it up... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 25 10:05:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <001f01c2f2b3$772b4f30$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I do believe that is right. Xerox Palo Alto (Parc) created the GUI and > the mouse on the Alto series of machines iirc. Douglas Englebart created the mouse: http://www.bootstrap.org/engelbart/index.jsp And it could be argued that Ivan Sutherland invented the GUI: http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?graphical+user+interface -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Mar 25 10:05:28 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Computing "in the field" (was RE: Osborne) Message-ID: I was involved in a trial of resistivity surveying in Peru in 1979, but it was not very successful -- the desert sands were too dry for there to be much conductivity! We had better luck with a simple seismic unit (womp the ground with a sledge hammer and pick up the waves on a pair of geophones). I have a copy of AutoCad 1.4 (that's one point four, not fourteen) that was customized by John Walker for use on the Otrona Attache at the request of University of Chicago archaeologists working in the Middle East. It was successfully used for mapping and architectural drawings at Nippur, in Iraq (see http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/AGS/About_AGS.html). After using the Osborne 1 in Peru, I got an Otrona 8:16 that I also used in Peru. I wrote a simple program for it to take raw theodolite data and generate a graphic of the architecture`we were mapping. I also used a commercial graphing program (Golden Graphics Plotware) to create a contour map based on pottery sherd frequencies that nicely revealed house patterns on a wind-deflated site (where all evidence of the cane-walled houses had been blown away by the wind). We used the computers mainly for writing and data base applications, though. Just having a portable computer for that was a great help, though. We owe a lot to Adam Osborne for opening up that market. BTW, the acquaintance that I got the AutoCAD 1.4 from, McGuire Gibson, and a Grad school classmate, Elizabeth Stone, have been lobbying/advising the US on where _not_ to bomb in Iraq in an attempt to minimize damage to historical and archaeological sites there. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:05 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Computing "in the field" (was RE: Osborne) --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > Ah, yes, I got my start in computers on with an Osborne 1... > I even took it to Peru for the archaeological projects I worked > on. Interesting. We took Kaypros (one 2, and later, a 10, IIRC) to the dig I worked on in College (1985, 1987, 1989). One of our guys tried to write a program to graph our results on-site, but those efforts didn't appear to be rewarding (we were using non- invasive survey techniques with a soil resistivity box that I had to keep repairing, and a proton magnetometer) -ethan From RCTech at cnri.us Tue Mar 25 10:48:01 2003 From: RCTech at cnri.us (RCTech) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: OOPS - NOT vt52, VT100 In-Reply-To: <009c01c2f217$62229b80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030325114344.00b84600@10.27.2.22> What about software that will emulate a VT100 on a PC? At 09:09 AM 3/24/03 -0600, you wrote: >Sorry, posting too early in the morning has it's pitfalls :\ > >I'm looking for a good condition VT100, NOT a VT52. > >*sigh* Sorry! > >Jay West From kth at srv.net Tue Mar 25 11:30:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, I hooked my VT420 (9600.8.N.1) to the VAX, and got no reaction on >the terminal. The LED diplay on the CPU card started at F, then flipped >A, and sat there. > On the CPU card, there are two switches, and I don't know what they do. >I've tried different switch combinations, to no avail... > >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/Mvc-113f.jpg > > On the left side is a 2 position switch, upper position has a dot >inside a circle, and the lower position has the dot above the circle. >That's the setting it came at. There is also a triangle, pointed down, >inside a circle immediatley below the switch. > On the right is a 3 position rotary switch.1st position is a little >face type of character, second is an arrow pointing right (this is >selected), and the third is a circle with a T inside of it. There is an >arrowhead on the circle, makes me think it's a looping test setting? > > Can anybody help me out quick to decipher these? I'm trying to get this >booted, to see what's on it, before John picks it up... > This site has a picture and a short description of the panel. http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Mar 25 12:16:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> Message-ID: <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> Kevin Handy wrote: > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Well, I hooked my VT420 (9600.8.N.1) to the VAX, and got no reaction on > >the terminal. The LED diplay on the CPU card started at F, then flipped > >A, and sat there. > This site has a picture and a short description of the panel. > > http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html Thanks. That does help some. Well, my VAX doesn't have the console baud rate selection switch. I wonder if my VT is set to the wrong speed, and that's why I'm not getting anything? I guess I'll start at VT100 mode, 300 for the speed, and 8/None/1 settings. Unless anybody knows what it probably is... On that page, it doesn't mention test A, which is where apparently my VAX is stopping... Hmmm... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 25 12:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: OOPS - NOT vt52, VT100 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030325114344.00b84600@10.27.2.22> Message-ID: <20030325181625.46522.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- RCTech wrote: > What about software that will emulate a VT100 on a PC? Not that I'm the original requestor (I have VT52s, VT100s, VT220s and VT240s, myself), but if one is going to consider using an emulator, one has to ask does it do double-high-double-wide? 132 column? Have a PF1/Gold key for EDT, etc.? I use emulators because I have to, but occasionally I find times where I _really_ want a terminal (and not just 'cause it looks right). OTOH, if I need to force-feed stuff down the throat of a classic system, even an xterm window that's connected in some way to a serial port (kermit, typically), is a great way to go. I've even seen some recent applications for terminals that depend on the "advanced video" features of the VT100 command set (the news/weather/flight information system at South Pole was VT420s on a MicroVAX when I was there last, running a simple app to page through text screens. Terminals were mounted in the wall at a variety of public locations). But, I suspect, in this case, it's simple aesthetics - the VT100 was the dominant terminal when the 11/44 was current. It's nice to have the proper accessories for ones vintage machines. -ethan From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Mar 25 13:27:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> Well, I hooked my Digital BCC17-06 cable (3 BNC, LK401 jack) to the QVSS patch panel, then to my Digital VRT19-DA (Sony GDM-1960) & Digital VRT17-HA monitors. The VRT17 clicked like it was trying to do something, and the VRT19 had lines like the H or V scan rates weren't right. The keyboard beeped, and the caps light worked, so that's something. During this, I had the VT420 connected to the CPU console jack, and by fiddling was able to get some stuff. So... I figured I'd pull the video card (QVSS, VCB01), to force it to use the console port. I also moved the DEQNA ethernet and the M9047 (bus terminator?) cards over to fill the now empty slot. I sort of recall hearing that it needs to be that way for these beasts? Now... I can see it performing the normal system test on the terminal (set now to 9600/8/N/1). I'm getting somewhere, finally. :) Back up to the garage to see how far it got... Okay, with the CPU switches set to normal boot, and halt enabled, It completed all systems tests, and waited at the dead sargent for me. (Time to find a list of console commands. Maybe my VAXStation 3100 book may help) I've now changed it to halt disabled, to see how far it goes this time... David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Kevin Handy wrote: > > > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > Well, I hooked my VT420 (9600.8.N.1) to the VAX, and got no reaction on > > >the terminal. The LED diplay on the CPU card started at F, then flipped > > >A, and sat there. > > > This site has a picture and a short description of the panel. > > > > http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html > > Thanks. That does help some. Well, my VAX doesn't have the console baud > rate selection switch. I wonder if my VT is set to the wrong speed, and > that's why I'm not getting anything? I guess I'll start at VT100 mode, > 300 for the speed, and 8/None/1 settings. Unless anybody knows what it > probably is... > > On that page, it doesn't mention test A, which is where apparently my > VAX is stopping... Hmmm... > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Tue Mar 25 13:51:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> Message-ID: <011a01c2f307$59e9a440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> The sequence that i use, robotically, is HIUB for: Halt, Init, Unjam, Boot but the B would probably do it. I think SHO DEV will work at this point in case the B(oot) dev needs to be specified explicitly, most likely not needed with a one drive system. John A. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Woyciesjes To: Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 2:26 PM Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga Well, I hooked my Digital BCC17-06 cable (3 BNC, LK401 jack) to the QVSS patch panel, then to my Digital VRT19-DA (Sony GDM-1960) & Digital VRT17-HA monitors. The VRT17 clicked like it was trying to do something, and the VRT19 had lines like the H or V scan rates weren't right. The keyboard beeped, and the caps light worked, so that's something. During this, I had the VT420 connected to the CPU console jack, and by fiddling was able to get some stuff. So... I figured I'd pull the video card (QVSS, VCB01), to force it to use the console port. I also moved the DEQNA ethernet and the M9047 (bus terminator?) cards over to fill the now empty slot. I sort of recall hearing that it needs to be that way for these beasts? Now... I can see it performing the normal system test on the terminal (set now to 9600/8/N/1). I'm getting somewhere, finally. :) Back up to the garage to see how far it got... Okay, with the CPU switches set to normal boot, and halt enabled, It completed all systems tests, and waited at the dead sargent for me. (Time to find a list of console commands. Maybe my VAXStation 3100 book may help) I've now changed it to halt disabled, to see how far it goes this time... David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Kevin Handy wrote: > > > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > Well, I hooked my VT420 (9600.8.N.1) to the VAX, and got no reaction on > > >the terminal. The LED diplay on the CPU card started at F, then flipped > > >A, and sat there. > > > This site has a picture and a short description of the panel. > > > > http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html > > Thanks. That does help some. Well, my VAX doesn't have the console baud > rate selection switch. I wonder if my VT is set to the wrong speed, and > that's why I'm not getting anything? I guess I'll start at VT100 mode, > 300 for the speed, and 8/None/1 settings. Unless anybody knows what it > probably is... > > On that page, it doesn't mention test A, which is where apparently my > VAX is stopping... Hmmm... > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Mar 25 14:00:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> Well, here's the output when I try to boot the OS on the VAX.... KA630-A.V1.3 Performing normal system tests 7..6..5..4..3.. Tests completed Loading system software 2.. ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 ?06 HLT INST PC = 00000EE6 Failure. >>> I can hear the HDD spin up when I power it on. Hmmm... Maybe the drive decided to retire, since it was sitting for a while unused? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dan at ekoan.com Tue Mar 25 14:13:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Anyone need spare Printronix parts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030325151240.03c70210@enigma> Hello, I'm scrapping a Printronix P-300 printer and thought I'd check to see if anyone needed any parts before it hits the scrapper. Contact me off-list if you need any parts. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From kth at srv.net Tue Mar 25 14:20:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E80C019.8090903@srv.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, I hooked my Digital BCC17-06 cable (3 BNC, LK401 jack) to the >QVSS patch panel, then to my Digital VRT19-DA (Sony GDM-1960) & Digital >VRT17-HA monitors. The VRT17 clicked like it was trying to do something, >and the VRT19 had lines like the H or V scan rates weren't right. The >keyboard beeped, and the caps light worked, so that's something. During >this, I had the VT420 connected to the CPU console jack, and by fiddling >was able to get some stuff. > > So... > > I figured I'd pull the video card (QVSS, VCB01), to force it to use the >console port. I also moved the DEQNA ethernet and the M9047 (bus >terminator?) cards over to fill the now empty slot. I sort of recall >hearing that it needs to be that way for these beasts? > > Now... > This might be of more help then. http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Mar 25 14:27:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Anyone need spare Printronix parts? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030325151240.03c70210@enigma> Message-ID: <3E80BB7F.5060200@gifford.co.uk> Dan Veeneman wrote: > I'm scrapping a Printronix P-300 printer and thought > I'd check to see if anyone needed any parts before > it hits the scrapper. I scrapped a similar printer recently and still have many of the parts. Located in Bristol, UK if anybody wants any of them. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cb at mythtech.net Tue Mar 25 14:33:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Anyone need spare Printronix parts? Message-ID: >I'm scrapping a Printronix P-300 printer and thought >I'd check to see if anyone needed any parts before >it hits the scrapper. I've got one as well that is available for parts. Everything in mine should be good other than the power supply (was working fine when the power supply blew, a repair tech said the transformer in it is dead). I may also have some unopened ribbons for it. I probably also still have a few extra fuses for the power supply (I bought them when it first died, and when it blew the next set, I called in a repair guy to look at it) And mine is mounted on a rolling stand, and has a paper catch bin for the output. Are these things worth anything at a scrap yard? I've been planning to just flip mine into the dumpster one of these days (its in a back corner of an unused section of office space, so I just keep forgetting about it). -chris From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Mar 25 15:04:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Anyone need spare Printronix parts? Message-ID: <94.35e55af3.2bb21d91@aol.com> > Are these things worth anything at a scrap yard? 2 to 5 cents (US) per pound as Motor Breakage. They are heavy. Paxton Astoria, OR From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Mar 25 15:20:01 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Trying to sell an old computer In-Reply-To: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F5EA@exchange2.slac.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <200303252117.PAA05167@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Whats the name of the computer? -Lawrence LeMay > I have the following stuff at a location near (115 miles west) Denver, Colorado; > > S100 Mainframe with: > 20 Amp Power supply > Godbout 6Meg-Z80 card > Godbout disk controller card > Godbout I/O card > 64K memory card - mfg ? > 2 DSDD 8 1/2" drives > Visual 330 terminal > Misc books and software > > All in unknown condition, worked 20 years ago when I last tried it. > Been stored since then in a barn, was dry though. > I could not figure out where to sell it on EBAY, any suggestions? > > Jim From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 25 15:24:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: M9047 and bus grant (was Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga) In-Reply-To: <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20030325212155.90221.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > I also moved the DEQNA ethernet and the M9047 (bus terminator?) cards > over to fill the now empty slot. I sort of recall hearing that it > needs to be that way for these beasts? Bus Grant. Unlike ISA and PCI-type machines, the Unibus and Qbus peripherals generate requests by breaking a chain of signals that go from slot to slot. If you look closely (or not so closely ;-) at your M9047, you'll see that there are no active or passive components on it - just a few backplane pins jumpered together. A peripheral card that wants to make an interrupt (or DMA) request will normally have those pins electrically "jumpered" and will "disconnect" them to initiate the request. This has the intentional side-effect that cards further away from the CPU can each make their own requests on the same line, but will never be noticed until the closer card has reconnected the signal. Unibus and Qbus machines do not run out of IRQs like ISA machines. They run out of physical slots to stuff boards into, or, in rare cases, the bus gets electrically overloaded with too many cards for the signals to propagate without too much noise (look up DC and AC Bus Loading in the literature). For a real-world example, we had our primary VAX-11/750 (.8 VUPS, *roughly* equivalent to the same integer horsepower as a Mac SE, an Amiga 1000 or a Sega Genesis) with MASSBUS disk (SI9900), MASSBUS tape (TU78) and a single Unibus with 3 Emulex 16-port serial boards, a 56Kbps DDCMP link (DMR-11?), a UDA-50 with one or two RA81s, an RX50 (RUX50), an RL02 (RL11), a TU80 (TS11), 6 COMBOARDs (68000-based DMA protocol engines with a sync serial port and line printer port), and a DMF-32 (8 serial, a sync serial (DDCMP) and a line printer). If I've remembered everthing that was on there, that makes at least 20 interrupt vectors in use. Plenty to spare. Very nice cards to have. I wish when we were making grant cards, that we had put pins in both Qbus and Unibus locations on the fingers so we could move jumpers to select what kind of bus to grant. We supplied a GC747 (our number) grant card with every Unibus COMBOARD, but never did with any Qbus COMBOARD. :-( -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Tue Mar 25 15:38:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: Anyone need spare Printronix parts? Message-ID: >2 to 5 cents (US) per pound as Motor Breakage. They are heavy. Ok... not enough to worry about. I'm not sure how much it weighs, but even at 500 lbs (which it isn't) and 5 cents per pound... that's only 25 bucks. The nearest public scrap yard that I am aware of is a good 25 minutes away, plus I would need to line up a van to cart it. I'm not sure the effort is worth a max of 25 dollars. Of course, knowing my speedyness on this, I can probably just take it with me the next time I go to one of my remote offices... there is a scapper 5 minutes down the road from them. Provided the line isn't too long, I can take it there (and if it is long, I can just take it there and dump it for free... that is what I usually do when I have to junk stuff there). -chris From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 16:19:01 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:35 2005 Subject: HP 5451c terminal cable Message-ID: Hi to all on the list, I've got an HP 5451c Fourier analyser that I'm trying to resurrect. The machine is basically an 'embeded' HP 1000 (2113B - I think but called a 54451 A/B processor in the literature) with a multi-channel digitizer, an oscilloscope display a system controller and a display terminal. The system allows time signals to be recorded and then viewed in the frequency domain (amongst many other functions) After pulling the parts of the system out of the store and trying to put it all together I find that I am minus the cable that connects the display terminal (an HP 2648A) to the system controller. The connector at the system controller end is marked 'teletype'. Is there anybody out there who has a spare cable? Does anyone have a pin-out for the correct cable? Does anyone know the correct part number for the cable? - I think that this may be 13232B but the literature I have is a little sparse Thanks in advance Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile/mobilehotmail From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 16:57:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: HP 5451c terminal cable Message-ID: What kind of connector is on the system controller end? A card edge connector on an I/O board or something else? I have 264x terminal manuals at home that should have the pinout for the card edge connector on the terminal end and I can look that up later if no one else beats me to it. I think the card edge connector on the terminal end is not difficult to obtain but the 48? conductor card edge connector on HP 1000 I/O cards is difficult to obtain if that's what you have on the system controller end. >After pulling the parts of the system out of the store and trying to put it >all together I find that I am minus the cable that connects the display >terminal (an HP 2648A) to the system controller. The connector at the >system controller end is marked 'teletype'. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 25 17:05:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: OOPS - NOT vt52, VT100 In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 25, 2003 10:16:25 AM Message-ID: <200303252302.h2PN2ara009986@shell1.aracnet.com> > > What about software that will emulate a VT100 on a PC? > > Not that I'm the original requestor (I have VT52s, VT100s, VT220s > and VT240s, myself), but if one is going to consider using an > emulator, one has to ask does it do double-high-double-wide? 132 column? > Have a PF1/Gold key for EDT, etc.? That's the *real* trick, finding *anything* that comes close to giving you keypad support along with any other features that you might require. I can live without the double-high-double-wide and 132 column, but I've got to have the keypad! > I use emulators because I have to, but occasionally I find times where I > _really_ want a terminal (and not just 'cause it looks right). OTOH, if > I need to force-feed stuff down the throat of a classic system, even > an xterm window that's connected in some way to a serial port (kermit, > typically), is a great way to go. I find that the following script, that I got off of USENET a few years ago, is able to turn a Xterm into a usable VT100 (with keypad support). ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/vms/vt100.sh > But, I suspect, in this case, it's simple aesthetics - the VT100 was > the dominant terminal when the 11/44 was current. It's nice to have > the proper accessories for ones vintage machines. I think Jay said as much, and I know that is why I've got a DECwriter II and three VT100's. They're for my /44, despite the fact that I really prefer a VT420 (and that's all I've used on the /44 so far). Still I've got them so that should I ever want, I can set the /44 up for a 'museum type' display. Zane From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Mar 25 17:50:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) References: <20030325035252.47982.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030325044855.GC40701@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E80EAFD.9080002@gifford.co.uk> R. D. Davis wrote: > When I hear the word Microbus, I can't help thinking about that 1970's > country/trucking song "Convoy." Hey, a convoy of computer collectors > driving Microbuses and old station wagons, etc., loaded with > computers, assorted electronic bits, and using CB radions, would be > neat! :-) We're considering doing something like this for the local Linux User Group trip to Bletchley Park. We might go for 802.11b rather than CB, though (even now that data is legal on CB in the UK). -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 25 20:48:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Trying to sell an old computer In-Reply-To: <200303252117.PAA05167@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Whats the name of the computer? It sounds like it was probably a CompuPro 8/16. > > I have the following stuff at a location near (115 miles west) Denver, Colorado; > > > > S100 Mainframe with: > > 20 Amp Power supply > > Godbout 6Meg-Z80 card > > Godbout disk controller card > > Godbout I/O card > > 64K memory card - mfg ? > > 2 DSDD 8 1/2" drives > > Visual 330 terminal > > Misc books and software > > > > All in unknown condition, worked 20 years ago when I last tried it. > > Been stored since then in a barn, was dry though. > > I could not figure out where to sell it on EBAY, any suggestions? > > > > Jim -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Mar 25 21:16:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Workslate + stuff available from me Message-ID: Sorry - forgot to change subject when sent to m100 list... > From: Ron Hudson > Date: Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:08:22 PM US/Pacific > To: m100@list.30below.com > Subject: Re: TPDD Assistance Request > > > Anyone interested in trade? > > Workslate Computer - Working > Workslate Pen printer - Not Tested > Workslate Coms Pod - Not Tested > Books for above - Working :^) > 2 power adapters. - Working > > What am I bid? : ^ ) > > I also have a Model 102 that is not available > and a NEC PC8300 which may be... > > > > ron. From glenslick at hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 00:35:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: HP 5451c terminal cable Message-ID: My 264X manual says a 13232B cable (p/n 02640-60058) connects a 13260A async interface in a 264X terminal to an HP 12531D or an HP 12880A computer interface. The 30 conductor card edge connector for the 264X terminal side should be easy to obtain. I think EDAC part 305-030-500-202 would work, approx $2.50 at DigiKey.com. For the 12531 side you need a 48 conductor card edge connector. I think EDAC part 305-048-500-202 would work, but I don't know where you can order that part without a large minimum order. Here's the 13232B cable wiring scheme from my 264X manual. Some day I should scan the picture... 264X Terminal 12531D Interface 13260A Interface 12880A Interface Data Out B --> X Data Out Data In C <-- W Data In CB E <-- U +12 VDC Ground H <-> 24 Ground CF J X8 Clock Out K --> L X8 Clock Out E,J connected D,4,Y connected T,16,V connected >>After pulling the parts of the system out of the store and trying to put >>it all together I find that I am minus the cable that connects the display >>terminal (an HP 2648A) to the system controller. The connector at the >>system controller end is marked 'teletype'. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Mar 26 06:22:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Look at this - In-Reply-To: <001f01c2f2b3$772b4f30$0100a8c0@benchbox> References: <001f01c2f2b3$772b4f30$0100a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <33071.64.169.63.74.1048615498.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I do believe that is right. Xerox Palo Alto (Parc) created the GUI and > the mouse on the Alto series of machines iirc. Xerox invented neither the GUI nor the mouse. Perhaps you're confusing Xerox with Douglas Engelbart? From inforum at umd5.umd.edu Wed Mar 26 06:23:59 2003 From: inforum at umd5.umd.edu (Douglas Meade) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?) In-Reply-To: <3E7FB84F.4090806@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: Sounds like a job for Dr. McGuire. On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Oops, it's not in TX, it's in Melbourne, FL and here is the URL > > http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE:4cPlistCKIE:prod11/750+ > > minimum QTY is 2. Hmm, very strange :-) > > -Gunther From jwest at kwcorp.com Wed Mar 26 06:24:26 2003 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ebay bid on dec rack Message-ID: <00a001c2f2de$7f760e20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on Ebay that includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I have no need for it, I just want the rack as it's the right height to mate to my 11/44X. If anyone wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets skipped. Jay West From jmh at SLAC.Stanford.EDU Wed Mar 26 06:24:55 2003 From: jmh at SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Hodgers, James) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Trying to sell an old computer Message-ID: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F5EA@exchange2.slac.stanford.edu> I have the following stuff at a location near (115 miles west) Denver, Colorado; S100 Mainframe with: 20 Amp Power supply Godbout 6Meg-Z80 card Godbout disk controller card Godbout I/O card 64K memory card - mfg ? 2 DSDD 8 1/2" drives Visual 330 terminal Misc books and software All in unknown condition, worked 20 years ago when I last tried it. Been stored since then in a barn, was dry though. I could not figure out where to sell it on EBAY, any suggestions? Jim From tim.myers at protasis.co.uk Wed Mar 26 06:25:23 2003 From: tim.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync 5d - being skipped on Friday Message-ID: <000c01c2f38d$4d697390$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> If any of you can get to Ellesmere Port, UK, before Friday, you can collect a NEC Multisync 5D. It's getting skipped on Friday - I cannot arrange shipping, so please don't ask. Please contact me off list, as I'm not monitoring the list actively for various political reasons... Tim. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 26 06:29:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: HP 5451c terminal cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030326073328.0f27d0ec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:54 PM 3/25/03 -0800, you wrote: >What kind of connector is on the system controller end? A card edge >connector on an I/O board or something else? > >I have 264x terminal manuals at home that should have the pinout for the >card edge connector on the terminal end and I can look that up later if no >one else beats me to it. > >I think the card edge connector on the terminal end is not difficult to >obtain but the 48? conductor card edge connector on HP 1000 I/O cards is >difficult to obtain if that's what you have on the system controller end. I have a pile of HP 1000 cables and I can probably donate one for the connector. I THINK that many of the connectors are all the same but I'm not sure. If you can find the correct name and PN I may have the correct cable for it. Joe > >>After pulling the parts of the system out of the store and trying to put it >>all together I find that I am minus the cable that connects the display >>terminal (an HP 2648A) to the system controller. The connector at the >>system controller end is marked 'teletype'. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 26 07:08:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ebay bid on dec rack In-Reply-To: <00a001c2f2de$7f760e20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00a001c2f2de$7f760e20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10190261258.20030326070526@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, Jay West wrote: > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on Ebay that > includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I have no need for it, > I just want the rack as it's the right height to mate to my 11/44X. If > anyone wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets skipped. :-) Of my 12 RA81s, 10 or so have Post-it notes saying "Bad HDA". I'm starting to see a pattern here... -- Jeffrey Sharp From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Mar 26 07:37:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e Message-ID: <3E81BA3E.13705.E30E45AF@localhost> Hre's one for the old-iron and who-was-first buffs. Take a look at http://www.tsd.de/lehmann/framed4a.htm The displayed machine is an East German development from the early 60's. The unit went into 'mass' production in 1963. It is sait that this might be the first desktop PC ever. The whole unit is self contained with CPU, two paper tape drived (one is also, IIRC, a puncher), and a front panel. THe comuter was ment to be as a 'workstation' on an engeneers desk. Now, does anyone of you know about a similar machine (especialy about the desktop part) produced in series before 1963? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 26 07:37:49 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030326084143.136f9402@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know what this card is? It has no card edge connectors like a Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors along one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ (something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC copywrites on it. Joe From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Mar 26 07:48:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030326084143.136f9402@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > Anybody know what this card is? It has no card edge connectors like >a Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors along >one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ (something) and >an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a NEC 7220 graphics IC, >an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC copywrites on it. > That sounds like a board from a VT-series terminal. Not sure what model, however. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 26 08:57:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: RA-81 reliability (was Re: ebay bid on dec rack) In-Reply-To: <10190261258.20030326070526@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030326145454.74429.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, Jay West wrote: > > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on Ebay > that > > includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I have no need for > it, > > I just want the rack as it's the right height to mate to my 11/44X. If > > anyone wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets skipped. > > :-) Of my 12 RA81s, 10 or so have Post-it notes saying "Bad HDA". I'm > starting to see a pattern here... No more than 50% of my RA81s are functional. We had a customer that complained to DEC that every month they had a head crash on an RA-81. DEC responded with some statistic about MTBF. They went back and forth a few times until someone divided the number of spindles they had into the MTBF number and converted it to days - it was approximately 30. :-) The customer elected to go with a smaller number of higher capacity drives and the problem went away (mostly because the MTBF of later models was *much* higher per spindle). There was a notorious problem with a formula change with an adhesive. I don't recall the HDA rev letter, but drives from the wrong batch would fail in record time. Big scramble for DEC to plug the gap. I think I've seen one drive die due to electronic failure, ever. -ethan P.S. - Somewhere I have a receipt for one at, IIRC, $26,000. Not my money, thankfully. They were still a few thousand $$$ in 1988. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 26 09:32:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: NS MM5290N-2 ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030326103712.6d3768b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I THINK this is the NS equivlent to the Intel 2117. Can anyone confirm that? Anybody have a data sheet for the 5290? Joe From rborsuk at colourfull.com Wed Mar 26 09:54:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: NS MM5290N-2 ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030326103712.6d3768b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: 16kx1 Dynamic ram pinout pin signal 1 VBB (-5v) 2 DI (data in) 3 /WE 4 /RAS 5 A0 6 A2 7 A1 8 VDD (12v) 9 VCC (5v) 10 A5 11 A4 12 A3 13 A6 14 DO (data out) 15 /CAS 16 VSS (ground) Info came from National / 1984 version of IC Master Rob On Wednesday, March 26, 2003, at 10:37 AM, Joe wrote: > I THINK this is the NS equivlent to the Intel 2117. Can anyone > confirm that? Anybody have a data sheet for the 5290? > > Joe > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From jim at jkearney.com Wed Mar 26 10:06:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: NS MM5290N-2 ? References: <3.0.6.16.20030326103712.6d3768b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <011001c2f3b1$3d160750$1301090a@xpace.net> > I THINK this is the NS equivlent to the Intel 2117. Can anyone confirm that? >Anybody have a data sheet for the 5290? I do. I don't have a 2117 data sheet to compare it to, though. It is a 16Kx1 dynamic RAM in "industry standard 16-pin configuration", so it sounds likely. N-2 means 150ns access and PDIP package. From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Mar 26 10:06:47 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: NS MM5290N-2 ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030326103712.6d3768b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > I THINK this is the NS equivlent to the Intel 2117. Can anyone confirm > that? Anybody have a data sheet for the 5290? > > Joe > Its a 16KX1 16 pin DRAM... Peter Wallace From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Wed Mar 26 10:16:00 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Helpful Identification Site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi everyone, I am kinda new to the list. I have noticed alot of emails where people are trying to identify one particular board or another. Just thought I would share this site with those who don't know about it. Most boards have an FCC ID# on them. Enter it at this site and it can give you some information about the board that you can then use as a jumping off point for further research. I apologize to anyone that may already have this info. http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/ I hope it helps some of you out. On a side note, I have a whole slew of old boards and equipment that I am willing to share and as soon as I can inventory them I will post a list for you all. Greg Manuel From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 26 10:47:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> Message-ID: <025d01c2f3b6$cf669840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Loading system software > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 Do you know that it had software? It's easy to erase a whole drive when a company is not sure which files are sensitive or not. I don't know from my limited knowledge how to distinguish from a good+empty drive and a bad drive. Perhaps it requires additional diagnostics SW. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 26 11:39:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: NS MM5290N-2 ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030326103712.6d3768b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030326124303.4d8f8270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Robert and everyone else that replied. Joe At 10:51 AM 3/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >16kx1 Dynamic ram >pinout >pin signal >1 VBB (-5v) >2 DI (data in) >3 /WE >4 /RAS >5 A0 >6 A2 >7 A1 >8 VDD (12v) >9 VCC (5v) >10 A5 >11 A4 >12 A3 >13 A6 >14 DO (data out) >15 /CAS >16 VSS (ground) > >Info came from National / 1984 version of IC Master >Rob > >On Wednesday, March 26, 2003, at 10:37 AM, Joe wrote: > >> I THINK this is the NS equivlent to the Intel 2117. Can anyone >> confirm that? Anybody have a data sheet for the 5290? >> >> Joe >> >> >Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com >President >Colourfull Creations >http://www.colourfull.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 26 11:43:03 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Helpful Identification Site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030326124212.4dafbeec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Greg, Welcome to the list. Where are you from and what are your interest? Joe At 11:13 AM 3/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I am kinda new to the list. I have noticed alot of emails where people are >trying to identify one particular board or another. Just thought I would >share this site with those who don't know about it. Most boards have an FCC >ID# on them. Enter it at this site and it can give you some information >about the board that you can then use as a jumping off point for further >research. I apologize to anyone that may already have this info. > >http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/ > >I hope it helps some of you out. On a side note, I have a whole slew of old >boards and equipment that I am willing to share and as soon as I can >inventory them I will post a list for you all. > >Greg Manuel From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Mar 26 11:45:30 2003 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Free Motorola DTL?RTL chips In-Reply-To: <3E7D75CA.nail2XZ1YC451@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <3E7D75CA.nail2XZ1YC451@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <200303252000.11989.jos.mar@bluewin.ch> On Sunday 23 March 2003 9:52 am, Tim Shoppa wrote: > OK, it's a few decades late, but I've got a few dozen Motorola > chips from the early 70's that must be interesting to somebody: > > MC679P > MC675P > MC669P > MC688P > According to my '68 databook, these devices are MHTL, a high threshold variant of DTL. They use a 15 V powersupply, a logic '1' has to be at least 8V. Propagation delay for simple gates is around 125 nS. jos dreesen From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Wed Mar 26 12:10:00 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Helpful Identification Site In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030326124212.4dafbeec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Sorry about that. Thank you for the welcome. I am from Philadelphia, PA. I mainly collect micros and early PC's although I have had an IBM System 34 in the past. Still have some parts around for it I think lol. I have been programming since '77 doing RPG on a IBM System 360. Currently I run my own consulting firm specializing in high end programmer training and custom app development. Greg -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 12:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Helpful Identification Site Hi Greg, Welcome to the list. Where are you from and what are your interest? Joe At 11:13 AM 3/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I am kinda new to the list. I have noticed alot of emails where people are >trying to identify one particular board or another. Just thought I would >share this site with those who don't know about it. Most boards have an FCC >ID# on them. Enter it at this site and it can give you some information >about the board that you can then use as a jumping off point for further >research. I apologize to anyone that may already have this info. > >http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/ > >I hope it helps some of you out. On a side note, I have a whole slew of old >boards and equipment that I am willing to share and as soon as I can >inventory them I will post a list for you all. > >Greg Manuel From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Mar 26 13:00:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) Message-ID: <200303261857.h2QIv7lw006577@io.crash.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: . > I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC > racks (72" tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. Darn. I was getting set to respond to this thread with the tale of borrowing a friend's camper version Microbus to haul home my "new" VAX-11/730 in late 1990. But that was just a single low-boy cabinet, and now I feel like a whiner... ;^) --Steve. From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Wed Mar 26 14:10:00 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030326084143.136f9402@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030326084143.136f9402@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1424.4.20.168.153.1048709226.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe wrote: > It has no card edge connectors like a > Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors > along one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > (something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > copywrites on it. Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Mar 26 14:12:00 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Video Card for HP 9000/217 - was : HP-86B Monitor question In-Reply-To: <000c01c2f292$00874fd0$d63fcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <200303262011.h2QKBcu89076@huey.classiccmp.org> I will receive a HP 9000/217 within the next weeks ... ... there will be a 90204A video card included (or maybe a 98627A), but both of them will not work with a "Standard VGA multisync monitor" ... >My 86s work with both the Apple and HP composite monitors. It's the >9920 (aka 9000/220) that uses the 30kHz horizontal sync instead of the >usual 15kHz and requires one of the special HP models, such as the HP >35731A. ... what card do you mean ? > Is there a video card for my 9000/217, which can be used with a multisync VGA monitor ? Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From jim at smithy.com Wed Mar 26 14:19:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Recovering data from disks... Message-ID: <1048709174.22328.34.camel@server.smithy.com> I have several 5 1/4" *hard-sectored* floppy disks. These are in some proprietary format, they are read by a controller that consists of a Z80 CPU, an EPROM, and some TTL chips. All this thing does is read the entire contents of the disk, outputting the data in parallel format over a ribbon cable. This is used to load CPU microcode into static RAMS. I want to be able to read the data from the disks, as I no longer have the controller/drive (or the mainframe it came from.) Any ideas? -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 14:47:01 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: HP 5451c terminal cable Message-ID: Hi Glen and Joe, Thanks for your replies. I've had a closer look at the controller / computer / terminal connections. It seems to work something like this The 2648A terminal has a 13260A card that is connected via a short hooded edge connector and cable to a longer hooded edge connector on the rear of the 'controller' box. The controller box is then connected via another cable (that I have) to a 12531 card the HP 1000 computer. The long hooded connector on the controller has the same number of contacts as the 12531 card in the computer - so I would assume that it is just replicating the contacts in the computer. The controller box has a number of short-cut keys for various functions that the system can perform so I would guess that the controller can inject characters into the connection between the terminal and the computer. My memory is that all the funcions have two character shortcuts that can be typed in at the terminal and I notice a couple of cards with diode matricies in the controller. There is a diode array for each key consisting of up to 16 diodes - 2 lots of eight bit ascii - maybe. Anyhow, Glen it looks as though your cable detective work is correct. The cable is a 13232B p/n 02640-60058 for connecting the 2648A to a 12531 interface. Joe can you please have a fish around and see if you have the right cable + we can work something out. If not then I'll have to take the build-it-yourself approach. Many thanks to you both. Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Surf together with new Shared Browsing http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 26 15:03:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Recovering data from disks... In-Reply-To: <1048709174.22328.34.camel@server.smithy.com> Message-ID: On 26 Mar 2003, Jim Donoghue wrote: > I have several 5 1/4" *hard-sectored* floppy disks. These are in some > proprietary format, they are read by a controller that consists of a Z80 > CPU, an EPROM, and some TTL chips. All this thing does is read the > entire contents of the disk, outputting the data in parallel format over > a ribbon cable. This is used to load CPU microcode into static RAMS. > I want to be able to read the data from the disks, as I no longer have > the controller/drive (or the mainframe it came from.) > Any ideas? Is there a brand name? (Somebody else might HAVE one) Otherwise,the drive is almost certainly not a problem, and you can probably use an "industry standard" drive, such as a TM100-2. But you will need a controller that can handle hard sectored diskettes. Depending on the specs of the format (which you haven't tod us), it MIGHT be readable with Northstar hardware, or it MIGHT be readable with Vector Graphic hardware, etc. OR, you could build an appropriate controller for a PC. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From kth at srv.net Wed Mar 26 15:23:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 References: <3.0.6.16.20030326084143.136f9402@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1424.4.20.168.153.1048709226.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E822048.6020000@srv.net> Eric Smith wrote: >Joe wrote: > > >>It has no card edge connectors like a >>Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors >>along one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ >>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a >>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC >>copywrites on it. >> >> > >Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > > > Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 26 15:31:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ebay bid on dec rack In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Mar 26, 2003 07:05:26 AM Message-ID: <200303262128.h2QLSXAq029729@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, Jay West wrote: > > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on Ebay that > > includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I have no need for it, > > I just want the rack as it's the right height to mate to my 11/44X. If > > anyone wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets skipped. > > :-) Of my 12 RA81s, 10 or so have Post-it notes saying "Bad HDA". I'm > starting to see a pattern here... If you look at the seller on eBay's auctions, you'll notice that he's pulled all the 'high demand' parts from everything that he's selling. In fact I don't think he's selling anything that's actually usable, unless like Jay you need a specific part of what he's selling. Zane From jim at smithy.com Wed Mar 26 15:45:01 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Recovering data from disks... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1048714304.22328.63.camel@server.smithy.com> On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 16:00, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Is there a brand name? (Somebody else might HAVE one) > The disks are 'CP4 CPU Microcode' disks for a Wang Laboratories' VS-90 minicomputer system. Their only purpose is to load microcode or diagnostic routines into the control memory on the CPU board. > Otherwise,the drive is almost certainly not a problem, and you can > probably use an "industry standard" drive, such as a TM100-2. > > But you will need a controller that can handle hard sectored diskettes. > > Depending on the specs of the format (which you haven't tod us), it MIGHT > be readable with Northstar hardware, or it MIGHT be readable with Vector > Graphic hardware, etc. I don't have, and cannot obtain, the specs of the format. What I do have is a disassembly of the Z80 code from the EPROM. From what I have read scanning old newsgroup postings, etc. today, I might be out of luck. There's a dealer of old Wang equipment in Ohio that has one of these, but they want a small fortune for it. I may have to abandon the idea of reading these disks until I can locate hardware from somewhere else, or the Wang dealer finally decides it's not worth keeping and scraps it out. -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 26 16:07:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Recovering data from disks... Message-ID: <200303262204.OAA17845@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Donoghue" > >I have several 5 1/4" *hard-sectored* floppy disks. These are in some >proprietary format, they are read by a controller that consists of a Z80 >CPU, an EPROM, and some TTL chips. All this thing does is read the >entire contents of the disk, outputting the data in parallel format over >a ribbon cable. This is used to load CPU microcode into static RAMS. >I want to be able to read the data from the disks, as I no longer have >the controller/drive (or the mainframe it came from.) >Any ideas? >-- >Jim Donoghue >Smithy Co. >(734) 913-6700 > Hi Get something like an EZKIT-lite from Analog Devices. These are proto typing boards for their DSP chips. These processors are fast enough to bit bang the data from floppies. You use one of the digital input lines. Once you determine the encoding method, you can look for the directory area or what ever. Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 26 16:29:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 In-Reply-To: <3E822048.6020000@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030326222620.65402.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Handy wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > > >Joe wrote: > > > > > >>It has no card edge connectors... has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > >>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > >>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > >>copywrites on it. > >> > >Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > > > Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. That's a good guess, especially with the 8085 on there (ISTR that's the CPU in a GIGI). -ethan From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 26 17:48:00 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> <025d01c2f3b6$cf669840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00ac01c2f3f1$ba6cb6f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "CCTalk" Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:13 AM Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > > Loading system software > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 That looks more like a hardware issue. "Device Inactive" It's not the message I usually see if I try and boot off a non-system disk. Geoff in Oz From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Mar 26 19:24:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 In-Reply-To: <20030326222620.65402.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Kevin Handy wrote: > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > >Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > >>It has no card edge connectors... has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > > >>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > > >>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > > >>copywrites on it. > > >> > > >Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > > > > > Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. > > That's a good guess, especially with the 8085 on there (ISTR that's > the CPU in a GIGI). But it's not. A Gigi has an 8-pin molex, two DB-25M's and 4 BNC's on the back (I just took a look at mine to verify). Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 26 21:14:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> <025d01c2f3b6$cf669840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <007c01c2f40e$6df9c480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Loading system software > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1622.html "Please check existing discussions of the "serpentine" nature of the Q-bus module configuration available here in Ask The Wizard such as topic (1149), ... This could well be a problem with the Q-bus configuration, with the disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk connection,..." John A. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Mar 27 00:49:00 2003 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: RA-81 reliability (was Re: ebay bid on dec rack) In-Reply-To: <20030326145454.74429.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <10190261258.20030326070526@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030327174504.025d29a8@mail.vsm.com.au> At 06:54 AM 26/03/2003 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: >There was a notorious problem with a formula change with an adhesive. >I don't recall the HDA rev letter, but drives from the wrong batch >would fail in record time. Big scramble for DEC to plug the gap. I can certainly confirm that there were significant problems with glue "migrating" onto the platters in RA81s. At the site I was working at in about 1982 we ordered two RA81s and suitable controller to augment our storage - we had an RM80 as system disk and two RM03s for user data - these were the good old days! These were some of the first RA81s delivered in Australia - I like to say that we had the first two RA81s in Australia along with about 10 of the next few shipments as well. It got to the stage where my Field Service engineer and I could replace an RA81 HDA in about 15 minutes. >I think I've seen one drive die due to electronic failure, ever. The most entertaining RA81 failure we had (glue induced failures excepted) was when the drive select switches on drive 1 failed. The controller detected duplicate IDs and spun _both_ RA81s down. Took a long while to work out why every time the second drive was powered up, the first would spin down.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From mranalog at attbi.com Thu Mar 27 01:22:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e Message-ID: <3E82ACD3.2C7EDB89@attbi.com> Hans wrote: > Now, does anyone of you know about a similar machine > (especialy about the desktop part) produced in series > before 1963? All of the following are electronic desktop personal computers used by engineers and mass produced before 1963. I have copies of magazine ads for these computers: Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-48 April 1962 Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-10 June 1960 Donner Scientific Co. Model 3500 April 1960 Donner Scientific Co. Model 3400 February 1960 Of course there is also the Heath EC-1 introduced in 1960 and the Heath ES-400 introduced in 1956. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Thu Mar 27 03:03:03 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF37A@OHM1003A> This is going to be rather difficult I think. In 1977 when I first went to high school, we had a visiting computer science teacher (the school didn't own it's own computer). He used to come in with a PET mostly, but one day he couldn't bring the PET so came in with this old machine which was roughly cubic, each side about 2 foot. On the front it had a wiring panel where you had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial like on old telephones which was used to dial the numbers in. I don't remember how it displayed its results. Being a first year student and never faced with a computer before I had no idea what to do with it, and so don't remember much about it. However, now I'm intrigued - what was that beast? Does anyone have any ideas? cheers, paul From hansp at aconit.org Thu Mar 27 03:58:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine In-Reply-To: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF37A@OHM1003A> References: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF37A@OHM1003A> Message-ID: <3E82CABE.3000008@aconit.org> Hills, Paul wrote: > This is going to be rather difficult I think. In 1977 when I first went to > high school, we had a visiting computer science teacher (the school didn't > own it's own computer). He used to come in with a PET mostly, but one day he > couldn't bring the PET so came in with this old machine which was roughly > cubic, each side about 2 foot. On the front it had a wiring panel where you > had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial like on old telephones which > was used to dial the numbers in. I don't remember how it displayed its > results. Interesting, I presume from your email address that this was in the UK. The first thing that came to mind was the Wireless World computer, this was a construction project published in the Aug thru Dec 1967 issues of that magazine. (on my long list of things I to scan someday). The 'computer' had an 8 bit word and a 3 word memory and an accumulator. It could perform various arithemetic operations. The actual published articles do not show a telephone dial but ISTR some mention of extensions based on telephone equipment : dials and strowger switches. The size and propotions seem to fit, the published design had switches and lights on the front panel and no plug-board. Do you recollect if the machine was homebrewed or manufactured? -- hbp From drido at optushome.com.au Thu Mar 27 05:29:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 In-Reply-To: <3E822048.6020000@srv.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030326084143.136f9402@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1424.4.20.168.153.1048709226.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030327221200.01086234@mail.optushome.com.au> At 02:48 PM 3/26/03 -0700, you wrote: >Eric Smith wrote: > >>Joe wrote: >> >> >>>It has no card edge connectors like a >>>Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors >>>along one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ >>>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a >>>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC >>>copywrites on it. >>> >>> >> >>Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. >> >> >> >Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. > My GIGI has 4 BNC connectors and no RJ connectors. I'd say he has a VT240 board. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 27 07:27:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:36 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> <025d01c2f3b6$cf669840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E82FC01.7DD5453A@comcast.net> John Allain wrote: > > > Loading system software > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > Do you know that it had software? > It's easy to erase a whole drive when a company is not sure > which files are sensitive or not. > I don't know from my limited knowledge how to distinguish > from a good+empty drive and a bad drive. > Perhaps it requires additional diagnostics SW. > > John A. Yeah, it did have software. They were testing keyboard and mice on it, so it must have a minimum GUI on there. And the people at CTI aren't the type to go deleting files, especially since at the time, they were under the impression that they would have to return the VAX... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 27 07:40:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e In-Reply-To: <3E82ACD3.2C7EDB89@attbi.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Doug Coward wrote: > Hans wrote: > > Now, does anyone of you know about a similar machine > > (especialy about the desktop part) produced in series > > before 1963? > > All of the following are electronic desktop > personal computers used by engineers and mass > produced before 1963. > > I have copies of magazine ads for these computers: > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-48 April 1962 > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-10 June 1960 > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3500 April 1960 > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3400 February 1960 > > Of course there is also the Heath EC-1 introduced > in 1960 and the Heath ES-400 introduced in 1956. These are all analog computers, of course. Hans was looking for digital computers. Berkeley's Simon could be considered (1951). http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 27 07:42:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine In-Reply-To: <3E82CABE.3000008@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Interesting, I presume from your email address that this was in the UK. > The first thing that came to mind was the Wireless World computer, this > was a construction project published in the Aug thru Dec 1967 issues of > that magazine. (on my long list of things I to scan someday). Ooh. I'd love to get a copy of that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 27 07:46:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> <025d01c2f3b6$cf669840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <007c01c2f40e$6df9c480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E8300C8.50CBB141@comcast.net> John Allain wrote: > > > Loading system software > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1622.html > > "Please check existing discussions of the "serpentine" nature of the > Q-bus module configuration available here in Ask The Wizard such as > topic (1149), ... > This could well be a problem with the Q-bus configuration, with the > disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk > connection,..." > > John A. Well, after looking at that article, and topic 1149, it seems that I've created a small problem by moving only two of the boards over and not the rest, when I removed the M7602 QVSS video board. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 27 07:52:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine References: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF37A@OHM1003A> Message-ID: <001d01c2f467$88dd2b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > wiring panel where you had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial > Does anyone have any ideas? Here's a MiniVac 601 with its prominent spinning dial http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.minivac601.html Here's the nearly cubic Heathkit EC-1 http://www.thocp.net/hardware/pictures/heathkit_analogue.jpg These two were about the most common, if not one of these, your professor's may have been a rare one. Of course they're all rara now. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Mar 27 08:08:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: ebay bid on dec rack References: <00a001c2f2de$7f760e20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <006301c2f469$ccc1edc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on > Ebay that includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and > I have no need for it, I just want the rack as it's the right height to > mate to my 11/44X. If anyone wants the RA81-HDA, let me know > before it gets skipped. Will comply. Similarly, if anybody wants to subdivide the 8 x RA92 rack with me that's fine. I only want 2 or 4 max, but let me know. John A. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 27 08:09:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e In-Reply-To: <3E82ACD3.2C7EDB89@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3E831338.27449.E851D66D@localhost> > > Now, does anyone of you know about a similar machine > > (especialy about the desktop part) produced in series > > before 1963? > All of the following are electronic desktop > personal computers used by engineers and mass > produced before 1963. > I have copies of magazine ads for these computers: > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-48 April 1962 > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-10 June 1960 > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3500 April 1960 > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3400 February 1960 > Of course there is also the Heath EC-1 introduced > in 1960 and the Heath ES-400 introduced in 1956. ES-400 ? Sounds somewhat familar :) Are you shure we are talking about the same? My question was about a digital free programmable desktop computer - all in onw, including I/O and so on. For the Analog part, East Germany had some realy impressive machines. We had a real nice one from the mid 60s at last years VCFe So, the hunt is still open. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 27 08:20:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> <025d01c2f3b6$cf669840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <007c01c2f40e$6df9c480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3E8300C8.50CBB141@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E830850.E0050376@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > John Allain wrote: > > > > > Loading system software > > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1622.html > > > > "Please check existing discussions of the "serpentine" nature of the > > Q-bus module configuration available here in Ask The Wizard such as > > topic (1149), ... > > This could well be a problem with the Q-bus configuration, with the > > disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk > > connection,..." > > > > John A. > > Well, after looking at that article, and topic 1149, it seems that I've > created a small problem by moving only two of the boards over and not > the rest, when I removed the M7602 QVSS video board. > > -- Yep. That appears to be the answer. It's booting now VAX/VMS V5.1 Major id = 1 Minor id = 0. Now it's asking for the date and time, but for the life of me I can't seem to input a valid answer! Help!?! -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Mar 27 09:05:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga References: <000201c2f0a5$0cf46ad0$cb87fe3e@athlon> <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> <3E809858.8020103@srv.net> <3E809CE3.65DD0739@comcast.net> <3E80AD48.59FC1C99@comcast.net> <3E80B4A8.F6E7A2DD@comcast.net> <025d01c2f3b6$cf669840$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <007c01c2f40e$6df9c480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3E8300C8.50CBB141@comcast.net> <3E830850.E0050376@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3E8312A9.5A5D733C@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Now it's asking for the date and time, but for the life of me I > can't seem to input a valid answer! Help!?! > > -- Well, finally got that figured out. Now I have a call in to the former oweners, to find a username/password. Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) machines to comapnaies for testing products, was there a default username/password that they usually set? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 27 09:29:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga In-Reply-To: <3E8312A9.5A5D733C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20030327152633.82140.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > ...Now I have a call in to the former oweners, to find a > username/password. There are instructions in VMS FAQs (among other places) for how to get into a machine when you have free access to the console. There is some variation, but there are some cookbook instructions on how to do it. > Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) machines to > comapnaies for testing products, was there a default username/password > that they usually set? The canonical defaults are SYSTEM/MANAGER and FIELD/SERVICE. Some older machines might have SYSTEST/UETP. Any of these should have enough privs to let you twiddle the SYSUAF file (change passwords, add accounts, etc.) More recent versions of VMS will not allow you to take a default SYSTEM password, but you can change it back after the install is done. -ethan From terryf at intersurf.com Thu Mar 27 09:58:01 2003 From: terryf at intersurf.com (Terry Freeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Microvax 3400 on eBay Message-ID: <006d01c2f479$58cf5c80$e301a8c0@here> In the for what it's worth column: MicroVax 3400 on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=3409069554 From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Mar 27 10:32:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga In-Reply-To: <3E8312A9.5A5D733C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000701c2f47e$0350aa70$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) > machines to comapnaies for testing products, was there a > default username/password that they usually set? Maybe in the V5.1 timeframe, but I think even by then SYSTEM/MANAGER and FIELD/FIELD had long gone! The OpenVMS FAQ seems to be here: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_contents.html Your specific question is here: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_contents.html In your case, >>> B/1 should get you into SYSGEN. Then SYSGEN> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" SYSGEN> SET UAFALT 1 SYSGEN> SET WRITES 0 SYSGEN> CONTINUE should get you a quick boot into the alternate UAF. As long as there is *no* alternate UAF (and many systems don't have one) and no SYSUAF logical set during a minimum boot (who knows ...) you should then be able to log in as SYSTEM using any passwords *on the system console only*. Then you do: $ SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM $ SET PROC/PRIV=ALL $ DEASS /SYS/EXE SYSUAF ! I forget if you need /EXE .. try both if necessary $ MC AUTHORIZE UAF> MODIFY SYSTEM/NOPWDEXP/PASS=feefiefoefum UAF> EXIT and now reboot, this time letting it come up normally. If there is an alternate UAF file, or SYSUAF gets set even on a minimal boot, then you need to follow the procedure as specified in the FAQ (but it's a tad trickier IMHO). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Mar 27 11:19:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains Message-ID: <001901c2f484$9d12a360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Question.... Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I apologize for posting it here. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty Fohs" To: Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:01 AM Subject: AdamComputer.com domains > Hello, > > We purchased the domain names AdamComputer.com & AdamComputers.com for a project that we are no longer able to develop. > > Domains for sale are: > > www.AdamComputer.com > www.AdamComputers.com > > I wanted to see if you have an interest or know of someone who could make use of these domains. We are just looking to recoup what we paid for these domains, as they no longer fall into our business plans. > > Let me know if you are interested or if you have any questions. > > Thanks, > > Dusty > dusty@rumcakerecipe.com From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Mar 27 11:34:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains In-Reply-To: <001901c2f484$9d12a360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Mar 27, 03 11:16:32 am Message-ID: <200303271727.MAA01396@wordstock.com> And thusly Jay West spake: > > Question.... > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing > something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to > someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I > apologize for posting it here. The Coleco Adam? Cheers, Bryan From adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com Thu Mar 27 11:41:01 2003 From: adrian.vickers at blue-edged.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: AdamComputer.com domains Message-ID: > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > > Question.... > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I > recall hearing Indeed there was: The Coleco Adam. A Google search throws up a number of links & pix. From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Thu Mar 27 11:57:01 2003 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains Message-ID: <448433E2.207D005B.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Coleco Adam, two digital cassette drives, think it had a Z80, could run CP/M. Was also an add-on to the Coleco game console at the time, to turn it into an Adam as well. Don't remember time frame, mid eighties? "Jay West" wrote: >Question.... > >Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing >something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to >someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I >apologize for posting it here. > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dusty Fohs" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:01 AM >Subject: AdamComputer.com domains > > >> Hello, >> >> We purchased the domain names AdamComputer.com & AdamComputers.com for a >project that we are no longer able to develop. >> >> Domains for sale are: >> >> www.AdamComputer.com >> www.AdamComputers.com >> >> I wanted to see if you have an interest or know of someone who could make >use of these domains. We are just looking to recoup what we paid for these >domains, as they no longer fall into our business plans. >> >> Let me know if you are interested or if you have any questions. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dusty >> dusty@rumcakerecipe.com > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 384meg, 20Gig & 40Gig, flatbed. Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04 __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promos=380455 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Mar 27 12:48:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... In-Reply-To: <3E807D68.E6C14753@comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > Sent: 25 March 2003 16:02 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted... > > > Well, I hooked my VT420 (9600.8.N.1) to the VAX, and got no > reaction on > the terminal. The LED diplay on the CPU card started at F, then flipped > A, and sat there. > On the CPU card, there are two switches, and I don't know > what they do. > I've tried different switch combinations, to no avail... I'm sure 'a' is either 'looking for boot device' or 'language selection' but I could be wrong. My manual's in the garage. > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/Mvc-113f.jpg > > On the left side is a 2 position switch, upper position has a dot > inside a circle, and the lower position has the dot above the circle. > That's the setting it came at. There is also a triangle, pointed down, > inside a circle immediatley below the switch. > On the right is a 3 position rotary switch.1st position is a little > face type of character, second is an arrow pointing right (this is > selected), and the third is a circle with a T inside of it. There is an > arrowhead on the circle, makes me think it's a looping test setting? The circle-and-dot is the halt enable switch; when the dot's in the circle you can halt the CPU with BREAK on the keyboard and the usual CTRL-P. The other switch is a mode switch IIRC, the 'face' forces a language select and the arrow is 'run'. If I get a chance today I'll dig the book out. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Thu Mar 27 12:49:17 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: ebay bid on dec rack In-Reply-To: <00a001c2f2de$7f760e20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030326142348.93320.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Jay, I have one of these minus the RA81 you have for free in Menlo Park area. Note its missing a top cover and a front panel. Well almost free - you have to pick up. Email me if interested. Lee Courtney --- Jay West wrote: > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 > high" rack on Ebay that > includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I > have no need for it, I > just want the rack as it's the right height to mate > to my 11/44X. If anyone > wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets > skipped. > > Jay West From jmh at SLAC.Stanford.EDU Thu Mar 27 12:49:46 2003 From: jmh at SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Hodgers, James) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Trying to sell an old computer Message-ID: <26E3EC48949D134C94A1574B2C89466124F5EE@exchange2.slac.stanford.edu> This system is in a chassis that I got surplus, I built it myself. It's all Godbout inside because I knew Bill Godbout. It is now listed at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3409426605 Jim From harrowsmith at attbi.com Thu Mar 27 12:50:16 2003 From: harrowsmith at attbi.com (Jon Titus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Computer Pioneer Adam Osborne Dies Message-ID: Online staff -- Electronic News, 3/25/2003 Portable computer pioneer Adam Osborne died Monday at age 64 after a long illness, Reuters reported. The British immigrant and Berkeley, Calif., resident was famed for his introduction of the 23-pound luggable computer in 1981. The technology and his gutsy attempt to challenge then PC kings Apple Computer and IBM made his start-up, Osborne Computer Corp., the fastest-growing company up to that time. But the success ended in bankruptcy two years later, making Osborne's trials a forgotten example of the dangers of undisciplined growth that was recently repeated by various dot-commers. Career challenges were not new to Osborne, however. Originally a chemical engineering with Shell Oil, he gambled on a career in technical writing and publishing during the formative years of the PC industry. With an opportunity to go head-to-head with Apple in his sights, Osborne turned to developing the first commercially viable portable computer and was backed by Silicon Valley venture capitalist Jack Melchor. In Osborne Computer's first year, 1981, it had sold $5.8 million worth of the Osborne-1. By the end of 1982, the company had sold $68.8 million. But then Osborne boasted his second-generation product before it was ready to ship, pushing sales of his first model down. As the tech industry's seen happen many time since, an inventory build up occurred, forcing Osborne Computer to close in 1983. "His enthusiasm for the next big thing meant Adam couldn't keep a secret," Lee Felsenstein, co-founder of Osborne Computer, told Reuters. Compaq Computer Corp. snatched up the opportunity and introduced its first product, a portable computer, in 1983. Osborne was buried today in a local cemetery near his sister's home, in Kodiakanal, India, Reuters reported. Jon Titus Milford, MA jontitus@attbi.com [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From murphy_dennis_b at emc.com Thu Mar 27 12:55:04 2003 From: murphy_dennis_b at emc.com (murphy, dennis b (BMC Eng)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Happy Enhancement Message-ID: <1EA3AF1BF764DA46B7FA60290A3AADDF0259D278@srblanda.eng.emc.com> Hello all, Just broke my old Atari out of jail (closet). The setup is an Atari 800 with 2-810 disk drives, one of them with the Happy Enhancement. I can't for the life of me fine the manual for the Happy drive. Can anyone help. Thanks, Dennis From dusty at rumcakerecipe.com Thu Mar 27 12:55:37 2003 From: dusty at rumcakerecipe.com (Dusty Fohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: AdamComputer.com domains Message-ID: <827990-2200334271731847@michael> Hello, We purchased the domain names AdamComputer.com & AdamComputers.com for a project that we are no longer able to develop. Domains for sale are: www.AdamComputer.com www.AdamComputers.com I wanted to see if you have an interest or know of someone who could make use of these domains. We are just looking to recoup what we paid for these domains, as they no longer fall into our business plans. Let me know if you are interested or if you have any questions. Thanks, Dusty dusty@rumcakerecipe.com From beermat at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 27 12:56:05 2003 From: beermat at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118232850.017a9888@slave> Message-ID: <3E82DE13.27655.13BCAEB1@localhost> Hiya Just seen your post on classiccmp (I know, I'm a bit behind - only got 5K unread messages on cctalk to get through!) If you are still after a VAX, I know a chap who has several VAXstation 3100 model 38s for around 50 quid each? I know, they're not *real* VAXen, but what can ya do, eh :) Oh to have A) room for and B) an 11/750... Whereabouts in the UK are you? cheers, greg From cb at mythtech.net Thu Mar 27 13:12:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: DEC dot matrix printer Message-ID: I have a Digital LA75-A2 "Companion Printer" available if anyone wants it. I don't know if it works, and I have no way to test it. It was pulled from a dumpster a few weeks ago, and John didn't want it (John has first dibs on anything DEC that I get because he's been feeding me a fairly steady stream of old Macs). John took everything else. The printer looks clean, and is physically in good condition. Other items I pulled from the dumpster that I have been able to test have all worked fine for the most part (for instance, the HP LJ 4 that I pulled is up and running just fine, and the 5L works but does the typical grabbing of too many pages from the hopper that all of HPs in that stand up design seem to do, and so far every cable that I pulled has tested ok). So I have no reason to believe the printer doesn't work... but like I said, I got it from a dumpster, and have no way to test it, so I can't promise anything. If anyone wants it, its free. Just come pick it up or cover shipping from NJ (07450). Or if you are anywhere between Ridgewood and Wayne or Wayne and Eatontown, I can drop it off tomorrow (friday) when I am out hitting two of my offices. If no one wants it, it will most likely end up back in the dumpster (I might see if there are any print engine parts I can pull as visually it looks like it may be based on the same engine the Apple ImageWriter 1 is built around... if anyone can confirm that let me know). -chris From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Mar 27 13:45:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: DEC dot matrix printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c2f498$c735e6c0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> As far as I am aware, the LA75 and AppleImagewriter are almost the same printer except for firmware. They both use the same ribbons, I'm 100% sure of that. I seem to recall that they're also similar to another "generic" printer (C-Itoh or something like that) but I don't remember what it was. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of chris Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 2:10 PM To: Classic Computer Subject: DEC dot matrix printer I have a Digital LA75-A2 "Companion Printer" available if anyone wants it. I don't know if it works, and I have no way to test it. It was pulled from a dumpster a few weeks ago, and John didn't want it (John has first dibs on anything DEC that I get because he's been feeding me a fairly steady stream of old Macs). John took everything else. The printer looks clean, and is physically in good condition. Other items I pulled from the dumpster that I have been able to test have all worked fine for the most part (for instance, the HP LJ 4 that I pulled is up and running just fine, and the 5L works but does the typical grabbing of too many pages from the hopper that all of HPs in that stand up design seem to do, and so far every cable that I pulled has tested ok). So I have no reason to believe the printer doesn't work... but like I said, I got it from a dumpster, and have no way to test it, so I can't promise anything. If anyone wants it, its free. Just come pick it up or cover shipping from NJ (07450). Or if you are anywhere between Ridgewood and Wayne or Wayne and Eatontown, I can drop it off tomorrow (friday) when I am out hitting two of my offices. If no one wants it, it will most likely end up back in the dumpster (I might see if there are any print engine parts I can pull as visually it looks like it may be based on the same engine the Apple ImageWriter 1 is built around... if anyone can confirm that let me know). -chris From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Thu Mar 27 14:55:01 2003 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 References: <3.0.6.16.20030326084143.136f9402@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1424.4.20.168.153.1048709226.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3.0.3.32.20030327221200.01086234@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3E83634B.E3CD41FC@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> "Dr. Ido" wrote: > > My GIGI has 4 BNC connectors and no RJ connectors. I'd say he has a > VT240 board. The description of connectors matches, though the part number is off by one digit. The VT240 has logic board part number 50-15494-01. I must remember to build some fuzzy searches into my database! For the benefit of future searchers, the VK100 (GIGI) main board part number is 54-14230-00. - Paul From mr at jasongullickson.com Thu Mar 27 15:08:01 2003 From: mr at jasongullickson.com (Jason J. Gullickson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal Message-ID: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF575@webmail.inacom-msn.com> Is there any (easy) way to use an H89 as a serial terminal, VT100 even? mr@jasongullicskon.com From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Mar 27 15:18:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Semi-OT; A new way to solder SMT Message-ID: <200303272111.QAA24384@wordstock.com> Use a toaster-oven!! http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm Cheers, Bryan From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 27 15:27:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: DEC dot matrix printer In-Reply-To: <001001c2f498$c735e6c0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> from "Bob Lafleur" at Mar 27, 2003 02:40:52 PM Message-ID: <200303272125.h2RLP7iR022396@shell1.aracnet.com> > As far as I am aware, the LA75 and AppleImagewriter are almost the same > printer except for firmware. They both use the same ribbons, I'm 100% > sure of that. I seem to recall that they're also similar to another > "generic" printer (C-Itoh or something like that) but I don't remember > what it was. They're a pretty nice dot matrix printer, and last I checked (a few months ago) you could still get ribbon's for them from office supply stores (just get the Apple Imagewriter ribbon). I've got one attached to the VT420 that I use for a system console on my PDP-11/73. It's a handy solution that lets me print out from any OS by just typing it to screen, or get a printout of what's happening on the console. The VT420 at least allows you to turn the printing on and off in the setup. They are also good printers to connect directly to most DEC computers. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 27 15:28:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine In-Reply-To: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF37A@OHM1003A> from "Hills, Paul" at Mar 27, 3 08:59:56 am Message-ID: > This is going to be rather difficult I think. In 1977 when I first went to > high school, we had a visiting computer science teacher (the school didn't > own it's own computer). He used to come in with a PET mostly, but one day he > couldn't bring the PET so came in with this old machine which was roughly > cubic, each side about 2 foot. On the front it had a wiring panel where you > had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial like on old telephones which > was used to dial the numbers in. I don't remember how it displayed its > results. > > Being a first year student and never faced with a computer before I had no > idea what to do with it, and so don't remember much about it. However, now > I'm intrigued - what was that beast? Does anyone have any ideas? Are you sure it was a computer? And not a digital electronics 'trainer'? There was a popular-ish school digital electronics trainer in the UK that fits most of your description. It wasn't cubical, it was flat -- about 2' long, 1' wide and a few inches high. There was a rotary telephone dial, light bulbs, and patch sockets on the front. Inside were 5 or 6 flip-flops and a number of gates connected to the patch sockets. There may have been other circuits, like a clock oscillator, monostables, etc too. You could patch them together to make counters, shift registers, combinatorial circuits, etc. Some of the 'applications' were quite fun (there were certainly simple games for it, for example). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 27 15:36:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF575@webmail.inacom-msn.com> from "Jason J. Gullickson" at Mar 27, 3 03:04:52 pm Message-ID: > Is there any (easy) way to use an H89 as a serial terminal, VT100 even? Yes, there are 2 ways to do it -- hardware and software The H89 is acutally a computer and a serial terminal in the same box, communicating via a very short RS232 cable. The terminal, which is actually an H19, has an ANSI mode which is close to being a VT100 IIRC. The hardware solution is to disconnect the internal serial cable from the termianl logic PCB (the rearmost vertical PCB in the machine) and replace it with one of the cables that goes to a DB25 connector on the back (these cables are normally connected to the serial port PCB plugged into the computer mainboard, just in front of the terminal logic PCB). The cables have a Molex 0.1" pitch SIL connector on the end, and fortunately, the pinout of all the internal serial connectors (terminal logic PCB, computer 'console port', serial port PCB) is the same. The software solution is to write a little program that transfers characters between the computer's console port and one of the other serial ports. This will then make the computer section appear as a transparent link between the terminal and the outside world. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 27 15:45:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: What the heck is a CP 1160? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030327164927.214f08ae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This is a BIG box with a front panel with blinking lights and switches. The switches are odd egg shaped things and not the usually round or flat handled things. I think this is some kind of PDP-11. Is was part of a Tektronix CS-3260 test station and has a Tektronix badge on it. Joe From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Thu Mar 27 15:50:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains In-Reply-To: <001901c2f484$9d12a360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Mar 27, 2003 11:16:32 AM Message-ID: <200303272147.h2RLlupf017148@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >Question.... > >Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing >something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to >someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I >apologize for posting it here. > >Jay West Yes, the Adam was produced by Coleco from '83-'85. It came in two different models, the first as an expansion module to the Colecovision game system and the 2nd as a stand alone that could accept Colecovision cartridges (had a Colecovision build in). I have a boxed one (you can see mine off to the left here - http://www.goatstore.com/museum15.jpg), which is the Colecovision expansion module. It was basicly a Z80 based micro with it's sound and graphics based around the Texas Instruments TMS9928A for graphics and SN76489AN for sound (both of which were already in the Colecovision). If it sounds familiar, it's because it's similar to the TI99/4A and what became part of the MSX stanadard. It also had 64K of RAM, along with 16k of Vram (which is why you'll often see it advertised as having 80k of RAM). From my understanding it's a dual Z-80, supplying it's own Z-80 and having access to the one in the Colecovision portion. It consisted of three components connected through a serial net called ADAMNET. Consequently, all three components (The daisywheel printer, the main chasis, the keyboard) had to be connected for the Adam to function. If you were missing the printer for example (which the power was actually supplied through), you couldn't start up your Adam. The main chasis had a special storage medium called a High Speed Digital Data Pack, with an empty section for a second one to be added. They were basicly a type of DAT used for storage, and most of the Adam's software was distributed on these. Inside you had 3 card slots where you could add things like an internal modem (which I have), extra ram, or whatnot. There was also a bus expansion slot as well. There were cards made at the time to add seperate printers, expand the memory an additional 256k, etc. Later 3rd part expansions included adding a couple megs of memory, hard drives, etc. You could also add a 160k 5 1/4" floppy drive developed by Coleco, as well as a cd-rom by Coleco as well (though this didn't see any real mass-production). The first batch had to basicly be returned or refubished because of production errors, and the company spent so long promising it on the market that by the time it actually got there it was to late to do anything. Interestingly, the company cancelled two products to put it's focus on the Adam. The first being the original expansion module #3 for the Colecovisionin 1983. This was to expand the capabilities of the Colecovision and use special program wafers instead of cartridges, that would have given the Colecovision NES (Nintendo Entertainment System) or SMS (Sega Master System) level hardware support long before anyone heard of the two. The second was when they canned the Colecovision alltogether in 1984 to focus on marketing the Adam (as many companies felt at the time of the '84 crash that the future was in computers and not game consoles). When the Adam failed in the market because of the long delays and quality problems, it was pulled in '85. (I was a stock holder at the time, and still have a bunch of the big color stock portfolios they'd release to shareholders). It's other claim to fame was almost nixing a deal (which never went through) between Nintendo and Atari. To put it breifly, Nintendo had approached Atari to distribute it's system in the US. They had several meetings, one of which was to be at the Summer '84 CES. It turned out Coleco was showcasing the Adam at that show as well, along with a datapack called Super Donkey Kong (an expanded version of it's original Donkey Kong cartridge that it had licensed from Nintendo for the Colecovision - it came packed in with the original Colecovision game console). Atari had the exclusive license from Nintedo for Donkey Kong on home computers, and threw a stink and threatened to nix the distribution deal (which never occured, and the Atari computer and console divisions were sold the next month to the Tramiel family). Consequently, Coleco pulled the game from it's computers. As an expansion module, the Adam represents one of the few tangible representations of the promise of what I call the "holy grail" of video game companies of the late 70's and early 80's. The promise to turn their video game console in to an actual programmable computer. Marty From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 27 16:20:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Freebie: Sumna(?) puck and pen Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030327172503.4d0704f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Who was looking for a pen and/or puck for a Sumna Graphics tablet just recently? Today I found a bag with a puck, pen, adapter cable and wall wart. It's your's for the postage and a little beer money if you still need it. I'm not sure if this one is for a Sumna tablet, there's no name on it. Both the pen and puck have cables with 8 pin male RJ-style connectors. There's also a cable that goes from RJ male on one end to DB-25 Female on the other. Also a 12 VDC 200 Ma wall wart with a male co-axial plug. Joe From jwb at paravolve.net Thu Mar 27 16:23:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (jwb@paravolve.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD, Reading under Linux/BSD ? Message-ID: <1048803676.3e83795c1a464@appsrv1.paravolve.net> I want to attempt to install OpenVMS 7.2 via MOP over the network, to do this I need to get the files off the CD since I don't actually have another VAX to read the CD on. (I'm using a Linux host running mopd... I was able to install NetBSD that way) Anyone know how I could read the data off the CD under Linux or *BSD ? -jwb From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 27 16:54:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD, Reading under Linux/BSD ? In-Reply-To: from "jwb@paravolve.net" at Mar 27, 2003 05:21:16 PM Message-ID: <200303272251.h2RMpVTk026694@shell1.aracnet.com> > I want to attempt to install OpenVMS 7.2 via MOP over the network, to do this I > need to get the files off the CD since I don't actually have another VAX to read > the CD on. (I'm using a Linux host running mopd... I was able to install > NetBSD that way) > > Anyone know how I could read the data off the CD under Linux or *BSD ? Is there ODS-2 filesystem support for Linux? I think there might be, and that's what you would need to be able to read the CD. Take a look at the DECnet/Linux project, if there is ODS-2 support, they should have a link to it. Another alternative might be to get SIMH running on the Linux box, install VMS on that, and then use SIMH (which includes network support) to get OpenVMS installed on the VAX. I've no idea if this would work, and if you get it working I'm sure others would be interested in knowing how you did it. Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 27 17:05:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: DEC RL-01? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030327180757.5987f7e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Are these drives worth anything? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 27 17:05:42 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: HP 7906 disk drives Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030327180926.4d3fd72e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> There's a BUNCH of these things in a scrap place here in central Florida if anyone is looking for one. I do not have a way to ship, store, move them. You'll have to come get them. Joe From shirsch at adelphia.net Thu Mar 27 17:13:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF575@webmail.inacom-msn.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > Is there any (easy) way to use an H89 as a serial terminal, VT100 even? Yes. The H89 was an H11 terminal with CPU and drive control boards added. I think you need to physically remove these and plug the cable from the DB-25 connector into the terminal PCB. I'm not too sharp on the details now, but I successfully converted several of them in this manner, circa 1990. Steve From CCTalk at catcorner.org Thu Mar 27 17:31:01 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Two ESDI drives available Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B84E@308server.308dole.com> I have two: Imprimis 94166-182 (150 MB) Maxtor XT-4170E (170MB) Any one need them? I collect mostly old Tandy stuff. Model II, 12, 16, 6000 is my main focus. Any interesting uses for these boat anchors? Thanks, Kelly From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 27 17:40:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: DEC RL-01? In-Reply-To: from "Joe" at Mar 27, 2003 06:07:57 PM Message-ID: <200303272337.h2RNbB31029962@shell1.aracnet.com> > Are these drives worth anything? There a 5MB drive. I think the major use for them is Hobbyist systems, commercial systems using RL0x drives probably use the 10MB RL02 drives (though I'm sure there are some commercial installations still using RL01's). Zane From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Mar 27 18:17:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal Message-ID: <200303280014.QAA18699@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > >On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > >> Is there any (easy) way to use an H89 as a serial terminal, VT100 even? > >Yes. The H89 was an H11 terminal with CPU and drive control boards added. He means H19, not H11. Dwight >I think you need to physically remove these and plug the cable from the >DB-25 connector into the terminal PCB. > >I'm not too sharp on the details now, but I successfully converted several >of them in this manner, circa 1990. > >Steve From patrick at evocative.com Thu Mar 27 18:19:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The hardware solution is to disconnect the internal serial cable from the > termianl logic PCB (the rearmost vertical PCB in the machine) and replace > it with one of the cables that goes to a DB25 connector on the back > (these cables are normally connected to the serial port PCB plugged into > the computer mainboard, just in front of the terminal logic PCB). The > cables have a Molex 0.1" pitch SIL connector on the end, and fortunately, > the pinout of all the internal serial connectors (terminal logic PCB, > computer 'console port', serial port PCB) is the same. Ouch... > The software solution is to write a little program that transfers > characters between the computer's console port and one of the other > serial ports. This will then make the computer section appear as a > transparent link between the terminal and the outside world. much easier than any of the above... get a copy of MDM712 or similar terminal emulation program. MDM712 comes with a serial port driver for H8/89. Plug your device into the spare serial port on the back of the (unopened) machine, and that should do it. Some '89's have three-port serial cards... I don't know which ends up being which or whether MDM712 lets you choose, all of my '89's are down right now. :-/ Patrick From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Mar 27 18:43:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal Message-ID: <200303280040.QAA18718@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >> The hardware solution is to disconnect the internal serial cable from the >> termianl logic PCB (the rearmost vertical PCB in the machine) and replace >> it with one of the cables that goes to a DB25 connector on the back >> (these cables are normally connected to the serial port PCB plugged into >> the computer mainboard, just in front of the terminal logic PCB). The >> cables have a Molex 0.1" pitch SIL connector on the end, and fortunately, >> the pinout of all the internal serial connectors (terminal logic PCB, >> computer 'console port', serial port PCB) is the same. > >Ouch... > >> The software solution is to write a little program that transfers >> characters between the computer's console port and one of the other >> serial ports. This will then make the computer section appear as a >> transparent link between the terminal and the outside world. > >much easier than any of the above... get a copy of MDM712 or similar >terminal emulation program. MDM712 comes with a serial port driver for >H8/89. Plug your device into the spare serial port on the back of the >(unopened) machine, and that should do it. Some '89's have three-port >serial cards... I don't know which ends up being which or whether MDM712 >lets you choose, all of my '89's are down right now. :-/ > >Patrick > Hi Why would you assume that finding and installing some software would be easier than making up a simple molex adapter connector. As I recall, it was a 9 pin molex but I could be wrong. That is all of 9 wires to deal with. Dwight From jwb at paravolve.net Thu Mar 27 18:53:01 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (jwb@paravolve.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD, Reading under Linux/BSD ? In-Reply-To: <200303272251.h2RMpVTk026694@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200303272251.h2RMpVTk026694@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1048812701.3e839c9da78d8@appsrv1.paravolve.net> Quoting "Zane H. Healy" : > Is there ODS-2 filesystem support for Linux? I think there might be, and > that's what you would need to be able to read the CD. Take a look at the > DECnet/Linux project, if there is ODS-2 support, they should have a link to > it. > > Another alternative might be to get SIMH running on the Linux box, install > VMS on that, and then use SIMH (which includes network support) to get > OpenVMS installed on the VAX. I've no idea if this would work, and if you > get it working I'm sure others would be interested in knowing how you did > it. I'll look into this. I plan to write it all up in a HOWTO somewhere if I get it all working since I've now spent days searching google, etc to no avail. Thanks, I'll keep everyone updated. -jwb From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 27 19:01:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: DEC RL-01? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030327180757.5987f7e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030328005852.11959.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > Are these drives worth anything? Anything?!? Almost certainly. More than coast-to-coast shipping? That all depends. I have several that I have used on my PDP-8/a. AFAIK, every controller (including the RL8A) that talks to an RL02 will also talk to an RL01. In the world of VAXen and PDP-11s, nearly everybody converted to RL02s as soon as they could - same amount of floorspace and power but twice the storage (10MB vs 5MB). I had a customer in 1987 that had RL01s on their 11/34-based inspection system, but that was, in effect, a packaged system (it was used to measure tooling for manufacturing artificial diamond; the CPU was the *cheap* part of the rig :-) The PDP-11/23 I did my work on had an RL01 as the system device (mine). My boss loaned me an RL02 that we used to exchange data files with our client. I would say that these days, it's probably easier to find RL02 packs than RL02 packs. The drives themselves are (depending on the exact rev of the boards) nearly identical. With later rev boards, *the* difference is the heads and the strapping of a few jumpers. There was an occasionally-performed mod to make the stepper board switch between RL01 and RL02 behavior (and assert Write Protect in RL01 mode) that let you *read* RL01 packs or read/write RL02 packs in the same drive, but you had to have a drive that you were willing to not have on a service contract. RL01 packs are clearly marked and use a brown color scheme. RL02 packs have blue labels. Neither are user formattable (embedded servo, factory prepped). Did you find a quantity of them, or just see one or two float by? Given the relative cost of RL02s these days, unless you have some RL01 packs to read (or drives to repair), they aren't particularly valuable. Under PDP-11 and VAX operating systems, you might as well hold out for the 10MB size. Under OS/8, AFAIK, the RL01 and RL02 are partitioned differently because both are larger than the max device size (I have a couple of RL01 packs with OS/8 on them, but I've never had an RL02 on my RL8A - back when I paid $600 for the controller and $150 for each RL01 drive, I couldn't afford the $1000 for an RL02 nor $200 per pack!) Depending on how old the absolute filter is, the entire drive might be cheaper than just the filter. Dunno how you'd evaluate it though, absent accurate operators logs. *I* like them, but then I never had any problems with them - never lost a drive; never had a head crash; never lost any data (but I can say the same thing for RL02s, so go figure). -ethan From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Mar 27 19:39:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:37 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] Message-ID: <008401c2f4ca$c1a0b0a0$7d00a8c0@george> This might be interesting to someone. Replys to original author, please. Note: an L6-30R is a 250V 30A single-phase twist lock receptacal, ie U.S. dryer... Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] > This came across suns@home. Anyone here interested? I know nothing > about it that's not in this message. > > > From: Jeff Wasilko > > To: suns-at-home@net-kitchen.com > > Message-ID: <20030327214108.GS24878@jane.smoe.org> > > Subject: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] > > > This is in Cambridge, MA. > > > > ----- Forwarded message from Rob Cambra ----- > > > > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:17:22 -0500 > > From: Rob Cambra > > Subject: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one? > > > > > > We have one of the machines that ran www.sun.com from about '94-'96, > > they gave it to us when we were redoing their site with our product a > > few years back. > > > > It's big. > > > > It needs 3-phase 220 --L6-30R on it, so you don't *need* to > > hardwire..heh..if that's a factor. > > > > It has (4) 50 or 60mhz SuperSPARC-(I or II?) processors and 640mb RAM. > > > > CD-Rom, DAT, various shoe-box diskpacks inside the case, and a bunch of > > differential disks in a shelf we never used. > > > > I have been tasked with fitting over 1500sq/ft (almost full) of computer > > room into about 600..so this thing has got to go. > > > > No one that works here wants it...and I feel sort of pained to have the > > liquidators literally shred it (that's what they say they do, just > > literally put into some wood-chipper for computers after separating the > > toxic stuff)...any interest? > > > > The only cost is safely removing it from our building. > > > > Feel free to pass this on to someone who might want this. > > > > -rob From jwb at paravolve.net Thu Mar 27 20:02:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (jwb@paravolve.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD, Reading under Linux/BSD ? In-Reply-To: <1048812701.3e839c9da78d8@appsrv1.paravolve.net> References: <200303272251.h2RMpVTk026694@shell1.aracnet.com> <1048812701.3e839c9da78d8@appsrv1.paravolve.net> Message-ID: <1048816848.3e83acd013890@appsrv1.paravolve.net> Quoting "" : > Quoting "Zane H. Healy" : > > Is there ODS-2 filesystem support for Linux? I think there might be, and > > that's what you would need to be able to read the CD. Take a look at the > > DECnet/Linux project, if there is ODS-2 support, they should have a link > to > > it. > > I'll look into this. I plan to write it all up in a HOWTO somewhere if I > get > it all working since I've now spent days searching google, etc to no avail. http://perso.club-internet.fr/lelegard/vmscd/ That will read an ODS-2 CD under Linux (and possibly other UNIX varients?)... Movin full steam ahead.. -jwb From charlesmorris at direcway.com Thu Mar 27 20:16:01 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: PDP 8/L repair log - hopefully the LAST installment! Message-ID: The 8/L is finally fixed! The final interesting failures were: The Group 2 microinstructions (CLA, IAC, etc) would not work. Changed the relevant 7400 - still only weak wiggles. Tracked it down to a dead short on the AC CLEAR line. Turns out that one of the ground bus strips that run the length of the backplane had buckled just enough to touch the exposed wire at the bottom of the pin it was supposed to make a circle around! That was really fun to locate. Lastly, the TTY receiver card M706 would only work when on an extender card. When in the backplane it would receive only one character and "hang" until power cycled. I spent a lot of time in a fruitless search for a bad backplane contact. Finally I found on the stop bit flipflops that their PRESET pins were floating (a frequent bad habit of DEC in their early design was to leave uncommitted TTL inputs to float, which works fine as long as it's an electrically "quiet" environment. Which a card handling 20mA TTY signals is NOT). A quick 1K pullup to +5 and it hasn't dropped a bit since. I've just finished constructing my "DF32x4" disk simulator (PC boards in a 1U [1.75" high] rack chassis). I'm starting to debug now - so far I had a bad IDC connector and (of course) no spare. I will make Eagle .SCH and .BRD files available to anyone who wants them IF it ever works ;) -Charles [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of mvc-457e.jpg] From marvin at rain.org Thu Mar 27 20:24:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: PDP 8/L repair log - hopefully the LAST installment! References: Message-ID: <3E83B1BF.46A69AB8@rain.org> Charles wrote: > > The 8/L is finally fixed! The final interesting failures were: > > The Group 2 microinstructions (CLA, IAC, etc) would not work. > Changed the relevant 7400 - still only weak wiggles. Tracked it > down to a dead short on the AC CLEAR line. Turns out that one of > the ground bus strips that run the length of the backplane had > buckled just enough to touch the exposed wire at the bottom of the > pin it was supposed to make a circle around! That was really fun > to locate. I had a similar problem in the early 70's with a PDP-16; periodically one of the chips would "blow its top" and I'd come in to find the machine not working and the chip blown apart. Checking found nothing, and replacing the chip solved the problem for another couple of months. I finally had occassion to pull the computer and check out the back plane for another reason, and found the same thing you did ... except it was *major* intermittent :). The buss line was IIRC -15VDC or so and periodically would touch one contact thus blowing the chip apart. Only took a year to solve it. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Mar 27 20:44:01 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: DEC RL-01? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030327180757.5987f7e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200303280241.UAA12778@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Pretty good drive for a PDP 8/A system, with the RL02 having twice as much storage as the RL01. I dont know how many people are running 8/A's and are looking for a mass storage device though. -Lawrence LeMay > Are these drives worth anything? > > Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 27 20:52:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: PDP 8/L repair log - hopefully the LAST installment! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030328024947.19923.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Charles wrote: > The 8/L is finally fixed! Congrats! > Lastly, the TTY receiver card M706 would only work when on an > extender card.... A) What rev M706 card do you have? (early rev M-series modules look like they were done on a whole-board grid with signal lines taped where needed; later boards have just as much copper as required, with the chips as close to the backplane as routing allows) B) Would you write up where you attached your pullups? None of my M706 cards have behaved badly like that, but if I run across a setting where I see that behavior, I'd like to benefit from your efforts. > I've just finished constructing my "DF32x4" disk simulator (PC > boards in a 1U [1.75" high] rack chassis). I'm starting to debug > now - so far I had a bad IDC connector and (of course) no spare. I > will make Eagle .SCH and .BRD files available to anyone who wants > them IF it ever works ;) That sounds great! I'm interested. I have a few -8/Ls and an -8/I that could use a disk device. I even have one BM08, giving me 12K on one -8/L. I'd *love* to be able to show off OS/8 on it. Are you using a microprocessor on your DF32x4? FPGAs? PALs? TTL? How are you handling the cabling issue? Do you have a way to load the emulated disk devices "out of band"? (i.e., can you get data into it in any way other than the databreak interface to the -8?) > [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name > of mvc-457e.jpg] What's the picture of? -ethan From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Thu Mar 27 20:55:01 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] In-Reply-To: <008401c2f4ca$c1a0b0a0$7d00a8c0@george> References: <008401c2f4ca$c1a0b0a0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <4855.4.20.168.178.1048819947.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Note: an L6-30R is a 250V 30A single-phase twist lock receptacal, ie > U.S. dryer... In my experience, U.S. clothes dryers don't use twist-lock plugs. So I'd expect them to use a NEMA 6-20R or 6-30R non-locking receptacle. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 27 21:11:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] In-Reply-To: <4855.4.20.168.178.1048819947.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > In my experience, U.S. clothes dryers don't use twist-lock plugs. So > I'd expect them to use a NEMA 6-20R or 6-30R non-locking receptacle. I have never seen a clothes dryer with a twist lock (but they may be out there). For anyone interested in big machines from the 1980s and 90s, L6-30 is a *very* common plug and socket combination, so salvage them whenever you can - they are not cheap. I saved quite a few when I was deinstalling the old NSFnet RS/6000-T3Bs. I am glad I did. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From MTPro at aol.com Thu Mar 27 21:39:00 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Want to buy a book about Bill Gates? Message-ID: <102.2a0f04a7.2bb51d58@aol.com> Ha ha, yes, seriously. I have a couple of new copies of the book, "Overdrive: Bill Gates and the Race to Control Cyberspace" by James Wallace. Paperback, 320 pages, 1997. This was the sequel to "Hard Drive" and is the story of Microsoft's response to Netscape's challenge to control the web browser market. A pretty good read, as well as the original book. Anyway, just $5 gets you a copy shipped! Also, if anyone is interested, I've got one more thing to hock: A sealed VHS video, "Apple's Operating System Strategy, March 1997" and a sealed CD, "The 1997 Apple MacAdvocate CD-ROM." This set is an excellent snap-shot of the state of Apple in Mid-1997, when Steve Jobs returned. The tape is just 15 minutes, but is great entertainment, with an explanation of the "future" of the Mac OS, when it incorporates the NeXT OS. Remember the blue box? A great feature is a presentation by Steve Jobs showing how easy it is to create a simple app in NeXTSTEP. The CD has all kinds of information on it, including the following folders: Read Me First!, Presentations, Goodies, Comments?, Free Stuff!, Welcome from Guy!, Apple Products, MacOS, Product Info, System 7.6 Demos, AppleFacts, and all of these Commercials: 1984_BIG.MOV, STEWART.MOV, DINOSAUR.MOV, ASTRONMY.MOV, SPIKELEE.MOV, SALESREP.MOV, GATES.MOV, KAWASAKI.MOV, HIGHTIDE.MOV, MMATLIN.MOV, INTERN ET.MOV, VALVOLIN.MOV, CURVEBAL.MOV, CRANBRIS.MOV, CROWD.MOV, BMW.MOV. $10 shipped! Thanks, David From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Mar 27 22:48:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] In-Reply-To: References: <4855.4.20.168.178.1048819947.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030327234017.029c5c00@mail.30below.com> At 22:08 03/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > In my experience, U.S. clothes dryers don't use twist-lock plugs. So > > I'd expect them to use a NEMA 6-20R or 6-30R non-locking receptacle. > >I have never seen a clothes dryer with a twist lock (but they may be out >there). > >For anyone interested in big machines from the 1980s and 90s, L6-30 is a >*very* common plug and socket combination, so salvage them whenever you >can - they are not cheap. I saved quite a few when I was deinstalling the >old NSFnet RS/6000-T3Bs. I am glad I did. Yes you are... I had to purchase (1) set of male & female connectors last year -- set me back darned near $60USD! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From spc at conman.org Thu Mar 27 22:57:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: An on-topic machine *still* doing useful work Message-ID: <20030328045441.2CADB66C4@tower.conman.org> I thought you guys might enjoy the following photographs of a 486 based NCR 3230 that is *still* in use, as a colocated server running a dozen websites (including mine [1]) and email: http://www.conman.org/people/myg/photos/tower486/ The photos were taken by my friend (who happened to stop the colocation facility for another reason). The machine in question was given to me in 1998 in the hopes that I could use it, so one minimal installation of RedHat 5.2 (kernel is now Linux 2.0.39) later and it's colocated, running my website (and over the years, an accumulation of websites of various friends) with an uptime (as of this writing) of: [spc]tower:~>uptime 11:48pm up 357 days, 1:05, 4 users, load average: 0.02, 0.14, 0.13 [spc]tower:~> (Holy cow! Eight more days and I'll have a bona-fide year up time on this! Didn't realize I was that close). I should say that the machine has been running in this capacity since I received it in late '98 without a major problem (In '99 or so I added a second 17G harddrive to the system since the 162MB drive it came with is a *wee* bit small for its intended uses). -spc (In fact, I run elm on that system to check my email ... ) From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Mar 27 23:18:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Apple II Graphics Tablet Message-ID: I recently acquired an Apple II graphics tablet, along with the controller and a plastic overlay that isn't in great shape. Does anyone have any overlays for this thing? It's really cool and I'd like to get it all cleaned up nicely and connected to my II+. -- Owen Robertson From spc at conman.org Thu Mar 27 23:23:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: An on-topic machine *still* doing useful work In-Reply-To: <20030328045441.2CADB66C4@tower.conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Mar 27, 2003 11:54:39 PM Message-ID: <20030328052033.298D066C4@tower.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner once stated: > > I thought you guys might enjoy the following photographs of a 486 based > NCR 3230 that is *still* in use, as a colocated server running a dozen > websites (including mine [1]) and email: Oops, forgot the footnote! [1] http://www.conman.org/ -spc (Personal pages at http://www.conman.org/people/spc/) From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Thu Mar 27 23:40:00 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030327234017.029c5c00@mail.30below.com> References: <4855.4.20.168.178.1048819947.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030327234017.029c5c00@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <2379.4.20.168.178.1048829854.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Roger wrote: > Yes you are... I had to purchase (1) set of male & female connectors > last year -- set me back darned near $60USD! Be glad your machine only needs something common and inexpensive. I need a 208/120V 3-phase 60A 4P 5W IEC 309 pin-and-sleeve receptacle. Although not strictly necessary, I'd prefer to get one with a mechanical interlock, such as a Hubbell HBL560MI9W, and I shudder to even think about what that's going to cost. (I can't find a price online, and you know what that means.) From rickb at bensene.com Fri Mar 28 00:26:01 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: What the heck is a CP 1160? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030327164927.214f08ae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003301c2f4f2$8afc51d0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Hey, Joe, I remember seeing these test systems when I worked at Tek. As I recall (the memories are a bit murky) the CPU's in these test systems were indeed some OEM form of PDP-11. I think that Tek engineered their own front panel for the machine, but most of the 'insides' were pure DEC, with the exception of some additional Tek-made interface boards that interfaced the test system electronics to the CPU. Can you take a picture of it and send it to me -- it might jog some memories. Regards, Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:49 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: What the heck is a CP 1160? > > > This is a BIG box with a front panel with blinking lights > and switches. The switches are odd egg shaped things and not > the usually round or flat handled things. I think this is > some kind of PDP-11. Is was part of a Tektronix CS-3260 test > station and has a Tektronix badge on it. > > Joe From patrick at evocative.com Fri Mar 28 01:04:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: <200303280040.QAA18718@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > >much easier than any of the above... get a copy of MDM712 or similar > >terminal emulation program. MDM712 comes with a serial port driver for > > Hi > Why would you assume that finding and installing some > software would be easier than making up a simple molex adapter > connector. As I recall, it was a 9 pin molex but I could > be wrong. That is all of 9 wires to deal with. > Dwight > Dwight, you're absolutly right, the software is not always "easy" to find and get. Actually, check that... it's really easy to find and get (Google), it's just not as easy to get onto a Heath-format floppy so you can use it. On the other hand, I think the software approach has its merits, especially over the long haul. Using a terminal emulator is a more permanent solution (IMHO) than cracking the case and swapping connectors around to reconfigure the device as a terminal or computer. And, the terminal logic board communicates with the CPU board at 9600 baud, so if you want a different rate for the device you are talking to, the board has to be pulled and jumpers/switches changed, and then pulled and changed back if you want to use it as a computer again. The three-port serial card has software configurable baud rates. The hardware approach will also not make it emulate VT-100, which is part of what Jason had asked. And since many of these programs can X/Y/Zmodem, getting other stuff onto the machine from there forward gets a lot simpler. While you, I, and others may feel quite comfortable mucking around with the innards of the beast, perhaps (and I don't know one way or another for sure) Jason or anyone else who might later read this thread in archives or digests may be less comfortable or is just working up to it, and so other alternatives are worth mentioning (IMHO). Tony's hardware solution is good, but rerouting even one of those cables may require removal of the CPU and terminal logic boards, since the interconnect and serial cables are typically routed around the bottom edge of the two boards and fairly tight once home. If you're going to go back and forth between terminal and computer, maybe that's a bit much in the long run. Add to this that the expansion boards and some of the other connectors attached the CPU board are all unkeyed and thus notoriously easy to (re)install one pin off their mating connectors, and this little accident can cause the kind of rapid deep frying on the CPU board that will turn a wonderful H89 into a dumb terminal permanently. I'm into risk management and choices. That's all. I certainly didn't intend any offense with my comment. But since we're into options... to elaborate on your and Tony's path, the terminal logic board's serial port is easily accessed from the rear of the machine--remove the lid, and as you face the back of the machine, it's on your left (you can sometimes read "P404" next to it). If a cable is the solution of choice, then Molex directly to a DB-9 or DB-25 (whatever the device to be connected requires) is the way to go, IMHO. That way, you can just open the case, pull the interconnect, connect in its place this new cable to the target device, and do your thing. Reverse to undo, lather-rinse-repeat as needed. That won't get you VT-100, software transfer, or other baud rates, but it is quick and dirty. To that end, P404 on the terminal logic board is a 15-pin connector with 10 pins connected. For those interested, the pinouts are (from schematic w/no revision number evident, identified Heath p/n 595-2268/595-2272): 1 - (black) ground 2 - no connection 3 - (brown) TxD 4 - n/c 5 - (red) RxD 6 - n/c 7 - (orange) RTS 8 - n/c 9 - (yellow) CTS 10 - n/c 11 - (green) DSR 12 - n/c 13 - (blue) ground 14 - (violet) DTR 15 - (grey) "RLSD/" (whazzat? anybody?) The black wire (pin 1) is up in this vertical connector. Patrick From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Fri Mar 28 02:39:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF37C@OHM1003A> Yes it was in the UK. From what I remember it looked manufactured, but it could have been built from a kit I suppose. If you could scan just the picture from that magazine that'd be great. Replying to other kind people who have responded, It wasn't either of the two machines you have posted links to - MiniVac 601 or Heathkit EC-1, but it looked a bit like the Heathkit one except the wiring grid was smaller and in the top left (I think), and there was a telephone dial - exactly the same as that found on old telephones - on the right hand side too (can't remember what must have been on the left!). Thanks for everyone's help anyway, cheers, paul -----Original Message----- From: Hans B Pufal [mailto:hansp@aconit.org] Sent: 27 March 2003 09:56 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Identification of an old machine Hills, Paul wrote: > This is going to be rather difficult I think. In 1977 when I first went to > high school, we had a visiting computer science teacher (the school didn't > own it's own computer). He used to come in with a PET mostly, but one day he > couldn't bring the PET so came in with this old machine which was roughly > cubic, each side about 2 foot. On the front it had a wiring panel where you > had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial like on old telephones which > was used to dial the numbers in. I don't remember how it displayed its > results. Interesting, I presume from your email address that this was in the UK. The first thing that came to mind was the Wireless World computer, this was a construction project published in the Aug thru Dec 1967 issues of that magazine. (on my long list of things I to scan someday). The 'computer' had an 8 bit word and a 3 word memory and an accumulator. It could perform various arithemetic operations. The actual published articles do not show a telephone dial but ISTR some mention of extensions based on telephone equipment : dials and strowger switches. The size and propotions seem to fit, the published design had switches and lights on the front panel and no plug-board. Do you recollect if the machine was homebrewed or manufactured? -- hbp From paulm064 at icqmail.com Fri Mar 28 05:01:00 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: help with external floppy drive Message-ID: <012e01c2f51a$a78d3800$b755ddcb@earth2> Please help with info of this floppy drive. 3 1/2" floppy drive external aluminium case manufacturer : California Access model no. : CA-880 fccid : gea4btrf302c Made In Hong Kong Need to know the system its designed to run on (ie: dos,unix etc) and available drivers. thanks From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Mar 28 08:03:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: help with external floppy drive In-Reply-To: <012e01c2f51a$a78d3800$b755ddcb@earth2> References: <012e01c2f51a$a78d3800$b755ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <20030328134520.9336.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Standard Amiga 880k external floppy, has cable with DB23 male, DB23 female on rear, used in a daisychain manner. Runs on (yep!) AmigaDOS/Workbench. Usually found with the A500 series, but useable on all Amigas. Probably a standard 720k mechanism with the added flipflop for Amiga use. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO pmulry writes: > Please help with info of this floppy drive. > > 3 1/2" floppy drive external aluminium case > manufacturer : California Access > model no. : CA-880 > fccid : gea4btrf302c > Made In Hong Kong > > Need to know the system its designed to run on (ie: dos,unix etc) and > available drivers. > > thanks From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Mar 28 08:11:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: An on-topic machine *still* doing useful work In-Reply-To: <20030328045441.2CADB66C4@tower.conman.org> Message-ID: Hey, I have the exact same machine except mine says AT&T Globalyst 515. I guess somebody was OEMing them out. I had about 40 of these units that I took into my TEC class and let the kids tear apart and build there own systems. I kept one for myself as a souvenir. I got all of those for free too. Rob On Thursday, March 27, 2003, at 11:54 PM, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I thought you guys might enjoy the following photographs of a 486 > based > NCR 3230 that is *still* in use, as a colocated server running a dozen > websites (including mine [1]) and email: > > http://www.conman.org/people/myg/photos/tower486/ > > The photos were taken by my friend (who happened to stop the > colocation > facility for another reason). > > The machine in question was given to me in 1998 in the hopes that I > could > use it, so one minimal installation of RedHat 5.2 (kernel is now Linux > 2.0.39) later and it's colocated, running my website (and over the > years, an > accumulation of websites of various friends) with an uptime (as of this > writing) of: > > [spc]tower:~>uptime > 11:48pm up 357 days, 1:05, 4 users, load average: 0.02, 0.14, 0.13 > [spc]tower:~> > > (Holy cow! Eight more days and I'll have a bona-fide year up time on > this! Didn't realize I was that close). > > I should say that the machine has been running in this capacity > since I > received it in late '98 without a major problem (In '99 or so I added a > second 17G harddrive to the system since the 162MB drive it came with > is a > *wee* bit small for its intended uses). > > -spc (In fact, I run elm on that system to check my email ... ) > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 28 08:38:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Want to buy a book about Bill Gates? In-Reply-To: <102.2a0f04a7.2bb51d58@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030328093438.0f777c76@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:36 PM 3/27/03 EST, you wrote: >Ha ha, yes, seriously. I have a couple of new copies of the book, "Overdrive: >Bill Gates and the Race to Control Cyberspace" by James Wallace. Paperback, >320 pages, 1997. This was the sequel to "Hard Drive" and is the story of >Microsoft's response to Netscape's challenge to control the web browser >market. A pretty good read, as well as the original book. Anyway, just $5 >gets you a copy shipped! Where do we send the money? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 28 08:38:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: What the heck is a CP 1160? In-Reply-To: <003301c2f4f2$8afc51d0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030327164927.214f08ae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030328094135.0f777c76@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Rick, Bingo! You're exactly right. Give that man a nickel! Yesterday I found a Tektronix CS-3260 test station (three 6'+ tall racks bolted together!) I'm not sure what it's supposed to do but it had a DEC looking system in it. I pulled the CPU and found that it's a DEC 11/35/FC but the front panel is two-tone blue instead of the DEC red-pink and it's marked CP-1160. There are still two RL-01s in the chassis along with a DEC mag tape drive (glass in door smashed) and a DEC paper tape reader/punch (with the read head smashed :-( I pulled the CPU, all the cables to it and the power supplies. I thought I'd E-bay them or trade them off for something a bit smaller and more usefull. Is there any other parts (DEC or Tektronix) worth rescuing? At 10:23 PM 3/27/03 -0800, you wrote: >Hey, Joe, > >I remember seeing these test systems when I worked at Tek. As I recall >(the memories >are a bit murky) the CPU's in these test systems were indeed some OEM >form of PDP-11. >I think that Tek engineered their own front panel for the machine, but >most of the 'insides' >were pure DEC, with the exception of some additional Tek-made interface >boards that interfaced the >test system electronics to the CPU. > >Can you take a picture of it and send it to me -- it might jog some >memories. Sure thing. The CPU is sitting in my drive way! > >Regards, >Rick Bensene >The Old Calculator Web Museum >http://oldcalculatormuseum.com Joe From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Fri Mar 28 08:54:00 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF37E@OHM1003A> Now you come to mention it, there's no guarantee that it was a computer. What you describe may well have been it. Do you have any model numbers or manuafcturers for that thing you described? cheers, paul -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: 27 March 2003 21:04 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Identification of an old machine > This is going to be rather difficult I think. In 1977 when I first went to > high school, we had a visiting computer science teacher (the school didn't > own it's own computer). He used to come in with a PET mostly, but one day he > couldn't bring the PET so came in with this old machine which was roughly > cubic, each side about 2 foot. On the front it had a wiring panel where you > had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial like on old telephones which > was used to dial the numbers in. I don't remember how it displayed its > results. > > Being a first year student and never faced with a computer before I had no > idea what to do with it, and so don't remember much about it. However, now > I'm intrigued - what was that beast? Does anyone have any ideas? Are you sure it was a computer? And not a digital electronics 'trainer'? There was a popular-ish school digital electronics trainer in the UK that fits most of your description. It wasn't cubical, it was flat -- about 2' long, 1' wide and a few inches high. There was a rotary telephone dial, light bulbs, and patch sockets on the front. Inside were 5 or 6 flip-flops and a number of gates connected to the patch sockets. There may have been other circuits, like a clock oscillator, monostables, etc too. You could patch them together to make counters, shift registers, combinatorial circuits, etc. Some of the 'applications' were quite fun (there were certainly simple games for it, for example). -tony From nampcjr at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 09:11:00 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: 1/2 Racore 1500 for PCjr Message-ID: <20030328150821.94666.qmail@web20703.mail.yahoo.com> I was able to get an upper unit of a Racore 1500 for the PCjr. Many Racore Expansions have the standard 5.25" in them (model 1200) and then some even had 3.5" drives in them...what makes this one cool is that there is a HDD installed! The only thing missing is the double-height sidecar, and therefore is pretty useless at the moment. Does anyone have one of these sidecars for the 1500 in a pile of "Stuff" by chance? That might seem funny, but that is how this top unit was located, however ut seems to be in pristene condition. Thanks! Brian Heise From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 28 09:20:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: An on-topic machine *still* doing useful work Message-ID: <1c3.74d8e3e.2bb5c1a2@aol.com> In a message dated 3/27/2003 11:56:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, spc@conman.org writes: << I thought you guys might enjoy the following photographs of a 486 based NCR 3230 that is *still* in use, as a colocated server running a dozen websites (including mine [1]) and email: http://www.conman.org/people/myg/photos/tower486/ The photos were taken by my friend (who happened to stop the colocation facility for another reason). >> I've got one even better! Some companies are still using Atari Mega STs to run mail inserters. I'm trying to get one of these machines from a site that is upgrading. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 28 09:25:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Forward from rescue list... Pr1me Memory Message-ID: <002101c2f53d$e08025a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> In case any prime people are interested... Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Enestvedt" To: Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 7:47 AM Subject: [rescue] FW: Free RAM to Good Home > > I have some RAM that will go to "Hazardous Waste" if someone > > does not want it. All I would ask is that you pay the ground > > shipping. All of the RAM is VERY old as you can see by the > > list below. I tested some of the Clearpoint RAM as recent at > > a year ago and it worked fine. However, I cannot guarantee anything. > > > > Marc B. > > 8 Prime Computer Inc RAM D/C 1190P Unknown From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 28 09:50:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? Message-ID: <001501c2f541$4d539d80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I've heard these really aren't to be found anywhere, but thought I'd check with the list. I'd like to get a disk subsystem on my PDP-8E. I've pretty much given up that I'll ever find an RK05 drive and controller for it, so I'm now looking to hook up an existing RL02 drive to it. I think this is done via the M8433? Would anyone have one available for trade or purchase (the controller, not the drive)? Thanks! Jay West From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 10:05:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: DEC dot matrix printer In-Reply-To: <20030328143843.4890.21039.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030328160238.90598.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> From: "Bob Lafleur" Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:40:52 -0500 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org As far as I am aware, the LA75 and AppleImagewriter are almost the same printer except for firmware. They both use the same ribbons, I'm 100% sure of that. I seem to recall that they're also similar to another "generic" printer (C-Itoh or something like that) but I don't remember what it was. - Bob From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 10:07:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: DEC dot matrix printer In-Reply-To: <20030328143843.4890.21039.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030328160444.83515.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, the C.Itoh 8510 was the same as the original Apple Imagewriter. NEC also sold this printer along with the NEC 2001 Computer in the 80's. A great printer. Regards, Al > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > As far as I am aware, the LA75 and AppleImagewriter > are almost the same printer except for firmware. > They both use the same ribbons, I'm 100% sure of > that. I seem to recall that they're also similar to > another "generic" printer (C-Itoh or something like > that) but I don't remember what it was. > > - Bob P.S. Sorry about posting an incomplete reply, accidentally pressed at the wrong time, and Yahoo! sent a reply before I was done.. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Mar 28 11:15:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: An on-topic machine *still* doing useful work References: <1c3.74d8e3e.2bb5c1a2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3E8482ED.1050909@gifford.co.uk> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I've got one even better! Some companies are still using Atari Mega STs to > run mail inserters. I'm trying to get one of these machines from a site that > is upgrading. How about this photo: http://junkpile.fotopic.net/photo.php?id=360216 It was taken on a UK railway station platform, and shows the "Departures" video screen. This screen normally displays train times, but in the photo it's showing the BBC Micro startup message for Acorn 1770 DFS (Disk Filing System). -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From acme at ao.net Fri Mar 28 11:35:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: What is this? eBay #3409766995 Message-ID: <200303281732.h2SHWmAx028544@eola.ao.net> Described as "One of the first portable computers ever made," hex keypad, the word "Eclipse" on side of unit, fits in a briefcase, seller claims it was made for Lawrence Livermore Labs. Any ideas? Glen 0/0 From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Mar 28 12:05:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: What is this? eBay #3409766995 In-Reply-To: <200303281732.h2SHWmAx028544@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <6DECA390-6147-11D7-AD41-00050287688D@colourfull.com> Is it an MST-80b? On Friday, March 28, 2003, at 12:32 PM, acme@ao.net wrote: > Described as "One of the first portable computers ever made," hex > keypad, > the word "Eclipse" on side of unit, fits in a briefcase, seller claims > it > was made for Lawrence Livermore Labs. > > Any ideas? > > Glen > 0/0 > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 28 12:09:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: What is this? eBay #3409766995 Message-ID: Maybe this?: http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/discuss.txt Subject: Lawrence Livermore Computer Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:57:32 -0800 From: "Mike Mori" To: I was refered to your web page by Doug Yowza. I was hoping that you would have some information on a LLL MST-80 microprocessor trainer I found a few years back. The unit is a Intel 8080 based single board system with a keypad and 3 digit display. It is mounted in a briefcase with a proto board and power supply. Any info you might have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: acme@ao.net [mailto:acme@ao.net] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:33 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: What is this? eBay #3409766995 Described as "One of the first portable computers ever made," hex keypad, the word "Eclipse" on side of unit, fits in a briefcase, seller claims it was made for Lawrence Livermore Labs. Any ideas? Glen 0/0 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Mar 28 13:01:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: AdamComputer.com domains In-Reply-To: <001901c2f484$9d12a360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: 27 March 2003 17:17 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains > > > Question.... > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing > something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of > interest to > someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I > apologize for posting it here. > There was indeed - the Coleco ADAM from 1984/5. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Coleco/adam.htm cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From cmurray at eagle.ca Fri Mar 28 13:02:02 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: ADAMcomputer domains References: <20030327180001.96352.63967.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E837023.2350BAA0@eagle.ca> The Coleco ADAM does indeed exist. I've been a memeber of the community since 1984. We are having our annual conventioni on Vancouver Island this August. Murray cctalk-request@classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Helpful Identification Site (G Manuel) > 2. Re: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) (Steve Jones) > 3. Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 (Eric Smith) > 4. Video Card for HP 9000/217 - was : HP-86B Monitor question (Bernd Kopriva) > 5. Recovering data from disks... (Jim Donoghue) > 6. RE: HP 5451c terminal cable (Peter Brown) > 7. Re: Recovering data from disks... (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) > 8. Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 (Kevin Handy) > 9. Re: ebay bid on dec rack (Zane H. Healy) > 10. Re: Recovering data from disks... (Jim Donoghue) > 11. Re: Recovering data from disks... (Dwight K. Elvey) > 12. Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 (Ethan Dicks) > 13. Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (Geoff Roberts) > 14. Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 (Patrick Finnegan) > 15. Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (John Allain) > 16. Re: RA-81 reliability (was Re: ebay bid on dec rack) (Huw Davies) > 17. Re: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e (Doug Coward) > 18. Identification of an old machine (Hills, Paul) > 19. Re: Identification of an old machine (Hans B Pufal) > 20. Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 (Dr. Ido) > 21. Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (David Woyciesjes) > 22. Re: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e (Vintage Computer Festival) > 23. Re: Identification of an old machine (Vintage Computer Festival) > 24. Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (David Woyciesjes) > 25. Re: Identification of an old machine (John Allain) > 26. Re: ebay bid on dec rack (John Allain) > 27. Re: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e (Hans Franke) > 28. Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (David Woyciesjes) > 29. Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (David Woyciesjes) > 30. Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (Ethan Dicks) > 31. Microvax 3400 on eBay (Terry Freeman) > 32. RE: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga (Antonio Carlini) > 33. Fw: AdamComputer.com domains (Jay West) > 34. Re: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains (Bryan Pope) > 35. RE: AdamComputer.com domains (Adrian Vickers) > 36. RE: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains (Bob Mason) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: "G Manuel" > To: > Subject: RE: Helpful Identification Site > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:07:22 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Sorry about that. Thank you for the welcome. I am from Philadelphia, PA. I > mainly collect micros and early PC's although I have had an IBM System 34 in > the past. Still have some parts around for it I think lol. I have been > programming since '77 doing RPG on a IBM System 360. Currently I run my own > consulting firm specializing in high end programmer training and custom app > development. > > Greg > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 12:42 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Helpful Identification Site > > Hi Greg, > > Welcome to the list. Where are you from and what are your interest? > > Joe > > At 11:13 AM 3/26/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi everyone, > > > >I am kinda new to the list. I have noticed alot of emails where people are > >trying to identify one particular board or another. Just thought I would > >share this site with those who don't know about it. Most boards have an FCC > >ID# on them. Enter it at this site and it can give you some information > >about the board that you can then use as a jumping off point for further > >research. I apologize to anyone that may already have this info. > > > >http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/ > > > >I hope it helps some of you out. On a side note, I have a whole slew of old > >boards and equipment that I am willing to share and as soon as I can > >inventory them I will post a list for you all. > > > >Greg Manuel > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "Steve Jones" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: No Rear View (was Re: Take Two or Nothing) > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:57:41 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > . > > I brought home an 11/34, several RL02s and the two H960 DEC > > racks (72" tall) in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus. > > Darn. I was getting set to respond to this thread with the tale of > borrowing a friend's camper version Microbus to haul home my "new" > VAX-11/730 in late 1990. But that was just a single low-boy cabinet, > and now I feel like a whiner... ;^) > > --Steve. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:07:06 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 > From: "Eric Smith" > To: > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Joe wrote: > > It has no card edge connectors like a > > Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors > > along one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > > (something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > > NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > > copywrites on it. > > Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: "Bernd Kopriva" > To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:17:34 +0100 > Subject: Video Card for HP 9000/217 - was : HP-86B Monitor question > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I will receive a HP 9000/217 within the next weeks ... > ... there will be a 90204A video card included (or maybe a 98627A), but both of them > will not work with a "Standard VGA multisync monitor" ... > > >My 86s work with both the Apple and HP composite monitors. It's the > >9920 (aka 9000/220) that uses the 30kHz horizontal sync instead of the > >usual 15kHz and requires one of the special HP models, such as the HP > >35731A. > ... what card do you mean ? > > > > Is there a video card for my 9000/217, which can be used with a multisync VGA monitor ? > > Thanks Bernd > > Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 > Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de > D-71397 Leutenbach > Germany > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Subject: Recovering data from disks... > From: Jim Donoghue > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: 26 Mar 2003 15:06:05 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I have several 5 1/4" *hard-sectored* floppy disks. These are in some > proprietary format, they are read by a controller that consists of a Z80 > CPU, an EPROM, and some TTL chips. All this thing does is read the > entire contents of the disk, outputting the data in parallel format over > a ribbon cable. This is used to load CPU microcode into static RAMS. > I want to be able to read the data from the disks, as I no longer have > the controller/drive (or the mainframe it came from.) > Any ideas? > -- > Jim Donoghue > Smithy Co. > (734) 913-6700 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "Peter Brown" > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: HP 5451c terminal cable > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:44:16 +0000 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Hi Glen and Joe, > > Thanks for your replies. I've had a closer look at the controller / > computer / terminal connections. It seems to work something like this > > The 2648A terminal has a 13260A card that is connected via a short hooded > edge connector and cable to a longer hooded edge connector on the rear of > the 'controller' box. The controller box is then connected via another > cable (that I have) to a 12531 card the HP 1000 computer. > > The long hooded connector on the controller has the same number of contacts > as the 12531 card in the computer - so I would assume that it is just > replicating the contacts in the computer. > > The controller box has a number of short-cut keys for various functions that > the system can perform so I would guess that the controller can inject > characters into the connection between the terminal and the computer. > > My memory is that all the funcions have two character shortcuts that can be > typed in at the terminal and I notice a couple of cards with diode matricies > in the controller. There is a diode array for each key consisting of up to > 16 diodes - 2 lots of eight bit ascii - maybe. > > Anyhow, Glen it looks as though your cable detective work is correct. The > cable is a 13232B p/n 02640-60058 for connecting the 2648A to a 12531 > interface. > > Joe can you please have a fish around and see if you have the right cable + > we can work something out. > If not then I'll have to take the build-it-yourself approach. > > Many thanks to you both. > > Peter Brown > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf together with new Shared Browsing > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:00:15 -0800 (PST) > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Recovering data from disks... > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > On 26 Mar 2003, Jim Donoghue wrote: > > I have several 5 1/4" *hard-sectored* floppy disks. These are in some > > proprietary format, they are read by a controller that consists of a Z80 > > CPU, an EPROM, and some TTL chips. All this thing does is read the > > entire contents of the disk, outputting the data in parallel format over > > a ribbon cable. This is used to load CPU microcode into static RAMS. > > I want to be able to read the data from the disks, as I no longer have > > the controller/drive (or the mainframe it came from.) > > Any ideas? > > Is there a brand name? (Somebody else might HAVE one) > > Otherwise,the drive is almost certainly not a problem, and you can > probably use an "industry standard" drive, such as a TM100-2. > > But you will need a controller that can handle hard sectored diskettes. > > Depending on the specs of the format (which you haven't tod us), it MIGHT > be readable with Northstar hardware, or it MIGHT be readable with Vector > Graphic hardware, etc. > > OR, you could build an appropriate controller for a PC. > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:48:56 -0700 > From: Kevin Handy > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Eric Smith wrote: > > >Joe wrote: > > > > > >>It has no card edge connectors like a > >>Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors > >>along one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > >>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > >>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > >>copywrites on it. > >> > >> > > > >Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > > > > > > > Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > Subject: Re: ebay bid on dec rack > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:28:33 -0800 (PST) > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, Jay West wrote: > > > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on Ebay that > > > includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I have no need for it, > > > I just want the rack as it's the right height to mate to my 11/44X. If > > > anyone wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets skipped. > > > > :-) Of my 12 RA81s, 10 or so have Post-it notes saying "Bad HDA". I'm > > starting to see a pattern here... > > If you look at the seller on eBay's auctions, you'll notice that he's pulled > all the 'high demand' parts from everything that he's selling. In fact I > don't think he's selling anything that's actually usable, unless like Jay > you need a specific part of what he's selling. > > Zane > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > Subject: Re: Recovering data from disks... > From: Jim Donoghue > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:31:34 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 16:00, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > Is there a brand name? (Somebody else might HAVE one) > > > > The disks are 'CP4 CPU Microcode' disks for a Wang Laboratories' VS-90 > minicomputer system. Their only purpose is to load microcode or > diagnostic routines into the control memory on the CPU board. > > > Otherwise,the drive is almost certainly not a problem, and you can > > probably use an "industry standard" drive, such as a TM100-2. > > > > But you will need a controller that can handle hard sectored diskettes. > > > > Depending on the specs of the format (which you haven't tod us), it MIGHT > > be readable with Northstar hardware, or it MIGHT be readable with Vector > > Graphic hardware, etc. > > I don't have, and cannot obtain, the specs of the format. What I do have > is a disassembly of the Z80 code from the EPROM. From what I have read > scanning old newsgroup postings, etc. today, I might be out of luck. > There's a dealer of old Wang equipment in Ohio that has one of these, > but they want a small fortune for it. I may have to abandon the idea of > reading these disks until I can locate hardware from somewhere else, or > the Wang dealer finally decides it's not worth keeping and scraps it > out. > > -- > Jim Donoghue > Smithy Co. > (734) 913-6700 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:04:19 -0800 (PST) > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > Subject: Re: Recovering data from disks... > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > >From: "Jim Donoghue" > > > >I have several 5 1/4" *hard-sectored* floppy disks. These are in some > >proprietary format, they are read by a controller that consists of a Z80 > >CPU, an EPROM, and some TTL chips. All this thing does is read the > >entire contents of the disk, outputting the data in parallel format over > >a ribbon cable. This is used to load CPU microcode into static RAMS. > >I want to be able to read the data from the disks, as I no longer have > >the controller/drive (or the mainframe it came from.) > >Any ideas? > >-- > >Jim Donoghue > >Smithy Co. > >(734) 913-6700 > > > > Hi > Get something like an EZKIT-lite from Analog Devices. > These are proto typing boards for their DSP chips. These > processors are fast enough to bit bang the data from > floppies. You use one of the digital input lines. > Once you determine the encoding method, you can look > for the directory area or what ever. > Dwight > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:26:20 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > --- Kevin Handy wrote: > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > >Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > >>It has no card edge connectors... has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > > >>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > > >>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > > >>copywrites on it. > > >> > > >Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > > > > > Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. > > That's a good guess, especially with the 8085 on there (ISTR that's > the CPU in a GIGI). > > -ethan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > From: "Geoff Roberts" > To: > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:15:05 +1030 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Allain" > To: "CCTalk" > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:13 AM > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > > > > Loading system software > > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > That looks more like a hardware issue. > "Device Inactive" > It's not the message I usually see if I try and boot off a non-system disk. > > Geoff in Oz > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:26:32 -0500 (EST) > From: Patrick Finnegan > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- Kevin Handy wrote: > > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > > > >Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>It has no card edge connectors... has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > > > >>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > > > >>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > > > >>copywrites on it. > > > >> > > > >Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > > > > > > > Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. > > > > That's a good guess, especially with the 8085 on there (ISTR that's > > the CPU in a GIGI). > > But it's not. A Gigi has an 8-pin molex, two DB-25M's and 4 BNC's on the > back (I just took a look at mine to verify). > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > From: "John Allain" > To: > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:10:32 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Loading system software > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1622.html > > "Please check existing discussions of the "serpentine" nature of the > Q-bus module configuration available here in Ask The Wizard such as > topic (1149), ... > This could well be a problem with the Q-bus configuration, with the > disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk > connection,..." > > John A. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 17:49:43 +1100 > From: Huw Davies > Subject: Re: RA-81 reliability (was Re: ebay bid on dec rack) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > At 06:54 AM 26/03/2003 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >There was a notorious problem with a formula change with an adhesive. > >I don't recall the HDA rev letter, but drives from the wrong batch > >would fail in record time. Big scramble for DEC to plug the gap. > > I can certainly confirm that there were significant problems with glue > "migrating" onto the platters in RA81s. At the site I was working at in > about 1982 we ordered two RA81s and suitable controller to augment our > storage - we had an RM80 as system disk and two RM03s for user data - these > were the good old days! These were some of the first RA81s delivered in > Australia - I like to say that we had the first two RA81s in Australia > along with about 10 of the next few shipments as well. It got to the stage > where my Field Service engineer and I could replace an RA81 HDA in about 15 > minutes. > > >I think I've seen one drive die due to electronic failure, ever. > > The most entertaining RA81 failure we had (glue induced failures excepted) > was when the drive select switches on drive 1 failed. The controller > detected duplicate IDs and spun _both_ RA81s down. Took a long while to > work out why every time the second drive was powered up, the first would > spin down.... > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the > Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" > > --__--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:48:35 -0800 > From: Doug Coward > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Hans wrote: > > Now, does anyone of you know about a similar machine > > (especialy about the desktop part) produced in series > > before 1963? > > All of the following are electronic desktop > personal computers used by engineers and mass > produced before 1963. > > I have copies of magazine ads for these computers: > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-48 April 1962 > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-10 June 1960 > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3500 April 1960 > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3400 February 1960 > > Of course there is also the Heath EC-1 introduced > in 1960 and the Heath ES-400 introduced in 1956. > --Doug > ========================================= > Doug Coward > @ home in Poulsbo, WA > > Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center > http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog > ========================================= > > --__--__-- > > Message: 18 > From: "Hills, Paul" > To: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org'" > Subject: Identification of an old machine > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:59:56 -0000 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > This is going to be rather difficult I think. In 1977 when I first went to > high school, we had a visiting computer science teacher (the school didn't > own it's own computer). He used to come in with a PET mostly, but one day he > couldn't bring the PET so came in with this old machine which was roughly > cubic, each side about 2 foot. On the front it had a wiring panel where you > had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial like on old telephones which > was used to dial the numbers in. I don't remember how it displayed its > results. > > Being a first year student and never faced with a computer before I had no > idea what to do with it, and so don't remember much about it. However, now > I'm intrigued - what was that beast? Does anyone have any ideas? > > cheers, > paul > > --__--__-- > > Message: 19 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:56:14 +0100 > From: Hans B Pufal > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Identification of an old machine > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Hills, Paul wrote: > > This is going to be rather difficult I think. In 1977 when I first went to > > high school, we had a visiting computer science teacher (the school didn't > > own it's own computer). He used to come in with a PET mostly, but one day he > > couldn't bring the PET so came in with this old machine which was roughly > > cubic, each side about 2 foot. On the front it had a wiring panel where you > > had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial like on old telephones which > > was used to dial the numbers in. I don't remember how it displayed its > > results. > > Interesting, I presume from your email address that this was in the UK. > The first thing that came to mind was the Wireless World computer, this > was a construction project published in the Aug thru Dec 1967 issues of > that magazine. (on my long list of things I to scan someday). > > The 'computer' had an 8 bit word and a 3 word memory and an accumulator. > It could perform various arithemetic operations. The actual published > articles do not show a telephone dial but ISTR some mention of > extensions based on telephone equipment : dials and strowger switches. > > The size and propotions seem to fit, the published design had switches > and lights on the front panel and no plug-board. > > Do you recollect if the machine was homebrewed or manufactured? > > -- hbp > > --__--__-- > > Message: 20 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:12:00 +1000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: "Dr. Ido" > Subject: Re: ID this DEC card? GS-2 5015484-01-k1-p1 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > At 02:48 PM 3/26/03 -0700, you wrote: > >Eric Smith wrote: > > > >>Joe wrote: > >> > >> > >>>It has no card edge connectors like a > >>>Q-bus or Unibus card but does have a metal plate with connectors > >>>along one side. The plate has a BNC, DB-9M, DB-15M, DB-25M, RJ > >>>(something) and an eight pin Molex connecotr on it. The board has a > >>>NEC 7220 graphics IC, an AMD 8085 CPU and several LSICs with DEC > >>>copywrites on it. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>Sounds like a VT220 or VT240 logic board. > >> > >> > >> > >Possibly a GIGI with all those connectors on it. > > > > My GIGI has 4 BNC connectors and no RJ connectors. I'd say he has a VT240 > board. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 21 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:26:25 -0500 > From: David Woyciesjes > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > John Allain wrote: > > > > > Loading system software > > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > > > Do you know that it had software? > > It's easy to erase a whole drive when a company is not sure > > which files are sensitive or not. > > I don't know from my limited knowledge how to distinguish > > from a good+empty drive and a bad drive. > > Perhaps it requires additional diagnostics SW. > > > > John A. > > Yeah, it did have software. They were testing keyboard and mice on it, > so it must have a minimum GUI on there. And the people at CTI aren't the > type to go deleting files, especially since at the time, they were under > the impression that they would have to return the VAX... > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 22 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:37:02 -0800 (PST) > From: Vintage Computer Festival > To: > Subject: Re: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Doug Coward wrote: > > > Hans wrote: > > > Now, does anyone of you know about a similar machine > > > (especialy about the desktop part) produced in series > > > before 1963? > > > > All of the following are electronic desktop > > personal computers used by engineers and mass > > produced before 1963. > > > > I have copies of magazine ads for these computers: > > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-48 April 1962 > > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-10 June 1960 > > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3500 April 1960 > > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3400 February 1960 > > > > Of course there is also the Heath EC-1 introduced > > in 1960 and the Heath ES-400 introduced in 1956. > > These are all analog computers, of course. Hans was looking for digital > computers. > > Berkeley's Simon could be considered (1951). > > http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/ > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > --__--__-- > > Message: 23 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:38:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Vintage Computer Festival > To: > Subject: Re: Identification of an old machine > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > > Interesting, I presume from your email address that this was in the UK. > > The first thing that came to mind was the Wireless World computer, this > > was a construction project published in the Aug thru Dec 1967 issues of > > that magazine. (on my long list of things I to scan someday). > > Ooh. I'd love to get a copy of that. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > --__--__-- > > Message: 24 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:46:48 -0500 > From: David Woyciesjes > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > John Allain wrote: > > > > > Loading system software > > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1622.html > > > > "Please check existing discussions of the "serpentine" nature of the > > Q-bus module configuration available here in Ask The Wizard such as > > topic (1149), ... > > This could well be a problem with the Q-bus configuration, with the > > disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk > > connection,..." > > > > John A. > > Well, after looking at that article, and topic 1149, it seems that I've > created a small problem by moving only two of the boards over and not > the rest, when I removed the M7602 QVSS video board. > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 25 > From: "John Allain" > To: > Subject: Re: Identification of an old machine > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:48:22 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > wiring panel where you had to plug in patch leads, and a rotary dial > > Does anyone have any ideas? > > Here's a MiniVac 601 with its prominent spinning dial > http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.minivac601.html > > Here's the nearly cubic Heathkit EC-1 > http://www.thocp.net/hardware/pictures/heathkit_analogue.jpg > > These two were about the most common, if not one of these, > your professor's may have been a rare one. Of course they're > all rara now. > > John A. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 26 > From: "John Allain" > To: > Subject: Re: ebay bid on dec rack > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:04:35 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on > > Ebay that includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and > > I have no need for it, I just want the rack as it's the right height to > > mate to my 11/44X. If anyone wants the RA81-HDA, let me know > > before it gets skipped. > > Will comply. > Similarly, if anybody wants to subdivide the 8 x RA92 rack > with me that's fine. I only want 2 or 4 max, but let me know. > > John A. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 27 > From: "Hans Franke" > Organization: SIEMENS AG > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:05:28 +0100 > Subject: Re: Kleinstrechenautomat D4e > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > Now, does anyone of you know about a similar machine > > > (especialy about the desktop part) produced in series > > > before 1963? > > > All of the following are electronic desktop > > personal computers used by engineers and mass > > produced before 1963. > > > I have copies of magazine ads for these computers: > > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-48 April 1962 > > Electronic Associates Inc. Model TR-10 June 1960 > > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3500 April 1960 > > Donner Scientific Co. Model 3400 February 1960 > > > Of course there is also the Heath EC-1 introduced > > in 1960 and the Heath ES-400 introduced in 1956. > > ES-400 ? Sounds somewhat familar :) > > Are you shure we are talking about the same? > > My question was about a digital free programmable > desktop computer - all in onw, including I/O and > so on. > > For the Analog part, East Germany had some realy > impressive machines. We had a real nice one from > the mid 60s at last years VCFe > > So, the hunt is still open. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > --__--__-- > > Message: 28 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:18:56 -0500 > From: David Woyciesjes > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > John Allain wrote: > > > > > > > Loading system software > > > > ?4C DEVINACT, DUA0 > > > > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1622.html > > > > > > "Please check existing discussions of the "serpentine" nature of the > > > Q-bus module configuration available here in Ask The Wizard such as > > > topic (1149), ... > > > This could well be a problem with the Q-bus configuration, with the > > > disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk > > > connection,..." > > > > > > John A. > > > > Well, after looking at that article, and topic 1149, it seems that I've > > created a small problem by moving only two of the boards over and not > > the rest, when I removed the M7602 QVSS video board. > > > > -- > > Yep. That appears to be the answer. It's booting now VAX/VMS V5.1 Major > id = 1 Minor id = 0. > Now it's asking for the date and time, but for the life of me I can't > seem to input a valid answer! Help!?! > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 29 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:03:05 -0500 > From: David Woyciesjes > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > Now it's asking for the date and time, but for the life of me I > > can't seem to input a valid answer! Help!?! > > > > -- > > Well, finally got that figured out. Now I have a call in to the former > oweners, to find a username/password. > Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) machines to > comapnaies for testing products, was there a default username/password > that they usually set? > > -- > ---Dave Woyciesjes > ---ICQ# 905818 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 30 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:26:33 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > > ...Now I have a call in to the former oweners, to find a > > username/password. > > There are instructions in VMS FAQs (among other places) for how to > get into a machine when you have free access to the console. There > is some variation, but there are some cookbook instructions on how > to do it. > > > Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) machines to > > comapnaies for testing products, was there a default username/password > > that they usually set? > > The canonical defaults are SYSTEM/MANAGER and FIELD/SERVICE. Some > older machines might have SYSTEST/UETP. Any of these should have enough > privs to let you twiddle the SYSUAF file (change passwords, add accounts, > etc.) > > More recent versions of VMS will not allow you to take a default > SYSTEM password, but you can change it back after the install is > done. > > -ethan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 31 > From: "Terry Freeman" > To: > Subject: Microvax 3400 on eBay > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:55:53 -0600 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > In the for what it's worth column: > > MicroVax 3400 on ebay > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=3409069554 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 32 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:29:13 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) > > machines to comapnaies for testing products, was there a > > default username/password that they usually set? > > Maybe in the V5.1 timeframe, but I think even by then SYSTEM/MANAGER > and FIELD/FIELD had long gone! > > The OpenVMS FAQ seems to be here: > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_contents.html > > Your specific question is here: > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_contents.html > > In your case, > >>> B/1 > should get you into SYSGEN. > > Then > SYSGEN> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" > SYSGEN> SET UAFALT 1 > SYSGEN> SET WRITES 0 > SYSGEN> CONTINUE > should get you a quick boot into the alternate UAF. > As long as there is *no* alternate UAF (and many systems > don't have one) and no SYSUAF logical set during a minimum > boot (who knows ...) you should then be able to > log in as SYSTEM using any passwords *on the system console only*. > > Then you do: > $ SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM > $ SET PROC/PRIV=ALL > $ DEASS /SYS/EXE SYSUAF ! I forget if you need /EXE .. try both > if necessary > $ MC AUTHORIZE > UAF> MODIFY SYSTEM/NOPWDEXP/PASS=feefiefoefum > UAF> EXIT > and now reboot, this time letting it come up > normally. > > If there is an alternate UAF file, or SYSUAF gets set even on a > minimal boot, then you need to follow the procedure as specified > in the FAQ (but it's a tad trickier IMHO). > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > --__--__-- > > Message: 33 > From: "Jay West" > To: > Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:16:32 -0600 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Question.... > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing > something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to > someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I > apologize for posting it here. > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty Fohs" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:01 AM > Subject: AdamComputer.com domains > > > Hello, > > > > We purchased the domain names AdamComputer.com & AdamComputers.com for a > project that we are no longer able to develop. > > > > Domains for sale are: > > > > www.AdamComputer.com > > www.AdamComputers.com > > > > I wanted to see if you have an interest or know of someone who could make > use of these domains. We are just looking to recoup what we paid for these > domains, as they no longer fall into our business plans. > > > > Let me know if you are interested or if you have any questions. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dusty > > dusty@rumcakerecipe.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 34 > From: Bryan Pope > Subject: Re: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:27:07 -0500 (est) > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > And thusly Jay West spake: > > > > Question.... > > > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing > > something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to > > someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I > > apologize for posting it here. > > The Coleco Adam? > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 35 > Subject: RE: AdamComputer.com domains > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 17:44:23 -0000 > From: "Adrian Vickers" > To: > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > > > > Question.... > > > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I > > recall hearing > > Indeed there was: The Coleco Adam. A Google search throws up a number of > links & pix. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 36 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:54:53 -0500 > From: knightstalkerbob@netscape.net (Bob Mason) > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Coleco Adam, two digital cassette drives, think it had a Z80, could run CP/M. Was also an add-on to the Coleco game console at the time, to turn it into an Adam as well. Don't remember time frame, mid eighties? > > "Jay West" wrote: > > >Question.... > > > >Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing > >something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to > >someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I > >apologize for posting it here. > > > >Jay West > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Dusty Fohs" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:01 AM > >Subject: AdamComputer.com domains > > > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> We purchased the domain names AdamComputer.com & AdamComputers.com for a > >project that we are no longer able to develop. > >> > >> Domains for sale are: > >> > >> www.AdamComputer.com > >> www.AdamComputers.com > >> > >> I wanted to see if you have an interest or know of someone who could make > >use of these domains. We are just looking to recoup what we paid for these > >domains, as they no longer fall into our business plans. > >> > >> Let me know if you are interested or if you have any questions. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Dusty > >> dusty@rumcakerecipe.com > > > > -- > Bob Mason > > 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD > Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 384meg, 20Gig & 40Gig, flatbed. > Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04 > > __________________________________________________________________ > Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! > http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 > > Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! > http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promos=380455 > > End of cctalk Digest From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 28 13:03:14 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:38 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433?" (Mar 28, 9:47) References: <001501c2f541$4d539d80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10303281848.ZM787@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 28, 9:47, Jay West wrote: > I've heard these really aren't to be found anywhere, but thought I'd check > with the list. > > I'd like to get a disk subsystem on my PDP-8E. I've pretty much given up > that I'll ever find an RK05 drive and controller for it, so I'm now looking > to hook up an existing RL02 drive to it. I think this is done via the M8433? If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant for a PDP-8/A. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vance at neurotica.com Fri Mar 28 13:08:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains In-Reply-To: <001901c2f484$9d12a360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: It was the Coleco Adam. Played games really well. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Jay West wrote: > Question.... > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall > hearing something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of > interest to someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is > SPAM and I apologize for posting it here. From vance at neurotica.com Fri Mar 28 13:09:08 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: ebay bid on dec rack In-Reply-To: <20030326142348.93320.qmail@web20810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: New Jersey or California? Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, lee courtney wrote: > Jay, > > I have one of these minus the RA81 you have for free > in Menlo Park area. Note its missing a top cover and a > front panel. Well almost free - you have to pick up. > Email me if interested. > > Lee Courtney > > --- Jay West wrote: > > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 > > high" rack on Ebay that > > includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I > > have no need for it, I > > just want the rack as it's the right height to mate > > to my 11/44X. If anyone > > wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets > > skipped. > > > > Jay West From vance at neurotica.com Fri Mar 28 13:09:40 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: DEC RL-01? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030327180757.5987f7e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Worth for use? Certainly. Worth for money? I wouldn't pay more than scrap value for them. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Joe wrote: > Are these drives worth anything? > > Joe From vance at neurotica.com Fri Mar 28 13:10:15 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] In-Reply-To: <008401c2f4ca$c1a0b0a0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: Is this a SparcCenter? Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > This might be interesting to someone. Replys to original author, please. > > Note: an L6-30R is a 250V 30A single-phase twist lock receptacal, ie U.S. > dryer... > > > > We have one of the machines that ran www.sun.com from about '94-'96, > > > they gave it to us when we were redoing their site with our product > > > a few years back. > > > > > > It's big. > > > > > > It needs 3-phase 220 --L6-30R on it, so you don't *need* to > > > hardwire..heh..if that's a factor. > > > > > > It has (4) 50 or 60mhz SuperSPARC-(I or II?) processors and 640mb > > > RAM. > > > > > > CD-Rom, DAT, various shoe-box diskpacks inside the case, and a bunch > > > of differential disks in a shelf we never used. > > > > > > I have been tasked with fitting over 1500sq/ft (almost full) of > > > computer room into about 600..so this thing has got to go. > > > > > > No one that works here wants it...and I feel sort of pained to have > > > the liquidators literally shred it (that's what they say they do, > > > just literally put into some wood-chipper for computers after > > > separating the toxic stuff)...any interest? > > > > > > The only cost is safely removing it from our building. > > > > > > Feel free to pass this on to someone who might want this. From vance at neurotica.com Fri Mar 28 13:10:47 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: FS: S/390 Message-ID: Hi people. I'm looking at selling one of my S/390 G1's. It comes complete with storage, DASD, and maybe a peripheral or two. It has software on it, but you are responsible for licensing issues. Anyone interested? Peace... Sridhar From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Mar 28 13:12:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: ADAMcomputer domains In-Reply-To: <3E837023.2350BAA0@eagle.ca> from "Murray McCullough" at Mar 27, 03 04:41:55 pm Message-ID: <200303281902.OAA20257@wordstock.com> And thusly Murray McCullough spake: > > The Coleco ADAM does indeed exist. I've been a memeber of the community > since 1984. We are having our annual conventioni on Vancouver Island > this August. > > Murray Has any new hardware / software been made for the Adam? How many people are expected at the convention? It's pretty cool the convention is being held in Canada. :-) Cheers, Bryan From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 28 13:30:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Fw: AdamComputer.com domains In-Reply-To: <001901c2f484$9d12a360$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Jay West wrote: > Question.... > > Was there a vintage computer called an "Adam"? I *THINK* I recall hearing > something about that name. If so, then the below email MAY be of interest to > someone. If there wasn't such a computer, then this email is SPAM and I > apologize for posting it here. I got spammed by this turd three times. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 13:31:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <10303281848.ZM787@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030328192907.16170.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 28, 9:47, Jay West wrote: > > I've heard these really aren't to be found anywhere, but thought I'd > > check with the list. Not that you can use it (see below), but I bought one (RL8A) from a DEC reseller for well under $100 a couple of years ago (either $30 or $60, I can't remember now). Cables are hard to come by, though. > > I'd like to get a disk subsystem on my PDP-8E. I've pretty much given > > up that I'll ever find an RK05 drive and controller for it I understand that feeling - it took me years to track down an RK8E at a decent price (swap) - I've had a 16-sector RK05F pack since 1984 and have never read it (and still can't - no RK05F drive/heads) At least thanks to David Gesswein, I have one 16-sector RK05J pack. > > ... so I'm now looking to hook up an existing RL02 drive to it. I think > this is done via the M8433? Yes. One RL8A (M8433) can talk to up to 4 drives, and you can have up to two RL8As in one OMNIBUS (but there aren't enough driver slots in OS/8 to view all those partitions at once - you have to juggle around a bunch). > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant > for a PDP-8/A. True. Now... if you have an -8/a hex-wide *chassis*, you can mount the KK8E CPU board set in there, or, IIRC, with OMNIBUS extension cables, you can attach the -8/a chassis to the -8/e backplane, but if all you have is a single -8/e box, you are out of luck. I have my -8/e in test mode with the PSU sitting *next to* its box - there's room for hex cards then, but I wouldn't want to run that way full-time. There aren't a lot of hard disk options for a quad-wide box... floppy (RX8E), RK05 (RK8E) and older stuff (through an external bus converter). By the time newer disks came out, DEC was only selling hex-wide 12-bit boxes, and all the new devices could fit on a single hex-height card instead of several quad-height cards, so there you are. There might be a third party quad disk controller or two, but I can't quote vendor and model numbers. My machines are 100% DEC. -ethan From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 28 13:33:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: ADAMcomputer domains References: <200303281902.OAA20257@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <009a01c2f55f$e2e74220$0400fea9@game> That computer came and went in a hurry. One of the kids on my block got one for christmas but took it back because of lack of software (and coleco pulling the plug). Designing the computer power supply into the printer was such a good idea. I always thaught the colecovision was a kick-ass game machine.. should buy one on EBAY someday (have the EMU on my dreamcast) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: Re: ADAMcomputer domains > And thusly Murray McCullough spake: > > > > The Coleco ADAM does indeed exist. I've been a memeber of the community > > since 1984. We are having our annual conventioni on Vancouver Island > > this August. > > > > Murray > > Has any new hardware / software been made for the Adam? How many people are > expected at the convention? > > It's pretty cool the convention is being held in Canada. :-) > > Cheers, > > Bryan From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 28 13:34:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? References: <001501c2f541$4d539d80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <10303281848.ZM787@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003601c2f560$b0b4ce20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Peter wrote.... ----- Original Message ----- > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant > for a PDP-8/A. Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? Ideas? Jay West From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Mar 28 13:42:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: What is this? eBay #3409766995 Message-ID: <28030387.36006@webbox.com> considering that the processor and eproms are missing. It looks to me to be a 8080 based board. The 28 pin chip close to the forty pin missing chip could be the 8228. The metal area to the left was probably where a breadbaord strip used to be. There are LEDs and a connector strip close to the breadboard area. It looks like a electronics experimenter system actually. His reference to the first laptop is pretty silly. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: acme@ao.net >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 3/28/03 9:32:48 AM > Described as "One of the first portable computers ever made," hex keypad, >the word "Eclipse" on side of unit, fits in a briefcase, seller claims it >was made for Lawrence Livermore Labs. > >Any ideas? > >Glen >0/0 From hansp at aconit.org Fri Mar 28 13:52:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <003601c2f560$b0b4ce20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <001501c2f541$4d539d80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <10303281848.ZM787@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <003601c2f560$b0b4ce20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E84A76B.5030104@aconit.org> Jay West wrote: > Peter wrote.... > ----- Original Message ----- > >>If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, >>because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant >>for a PDP-8/A. > > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? Ideas? Homebrewing an IDE interface and patching the software to run it would be a FUN project ;-) -- hbp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 28 13:56:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/35 FC? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030328150106.485752f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> First, what's the significance of the FC on the model number? Second, I went through chassis and here's a list of the cards in it. QED stands for Quickware Engineering & Designs. They made several of the cards in this one. Anyone have any info on them? H,Q,U stand for Hex-bus, Quad-bus and Uni-bus respectively. Anyone want to take a stab at id'ing these cards? Slot: Card: 4 M7231D H Data Path 7 CI M60 made by QED Q 9 90 CPU made by QED has DCJ11-AA IC Q 11 MS 95 made by QED H 15-16 M920 U 19-20 M920 U 16 M7254 Q 17 M7255 Q 18 M7256 Q 19 M7257 Q 22 M7762 H 23 Tektronix CL3 Date/Time Option Q 24 Datasystems DLP-11 Q Printer card? 27 M7228 Q 29 M7800 Q 31 M7800 Q 33 M7800 Q 36 M7911 Q 37 M7912 H 38 M7821 fits in single slot (#2) 38 M105 fits in single slot (#3) 38 M796 fits in single slot (#4) 38 M930 U bus terminator? installed in bottom two slots 39 M795 installed u[pside down. Is this correct? Joe From marvin at rain.org Fri Mar 28 14:08:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? References: <001501c2f541$4d539d80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <10303281848.ZM787@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <003601c2f560$b0b4ce20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E84AB19.187F1BF9@rain.org> Jay West wrote: > > Peter wrote.... > ----- Original Message ----- > > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant > > for a PDP-8/A. > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? Ideas? I have something called a TriData recorder for my PDP-8L. Basically it uses a type of tape cassette to record data. The person who originally bought the machine used the cassettes to store the programs he was writing. Then again, there is always paper/mylar tape :). From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 14:26:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/35 FC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030328150106.485752f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030328202334.26339.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > First, what's the significance of the FC on the model number? No idea. If this were "Suspended", I'd guess "Filter Computer" :-) > Second, I went through chassis and here's a list of the cards in it. > Slot: Card: > 4 M7231D H Data Path > 7 CI M60 made by QED Q > 9 90 CPU made by QED has DCJ11-AA IC Q > 11 MS 95 made by QED H Neat - plenty of horsepower there! > 15-16 M920 U > 19-20 M920 U Jumper cards. Interesting comment about them here: http://www.varx.com/va01005.html I think they mean that in modern Unibus designs, the cable length is suboptimal to prevent signal reflection. The newer jumper blocks are taller with more mylar cable folded up inside. Consult DEC's Unibus Handbook for details on Unibus configuration. I figure if the machine has them now, they'll be OK, but if all you want to do is hook some DD11CKs and DD11DKs together, go with the newer ones. > 16 M7254 Q > 17 M7255 Q > 18 M7256 Q > 19 M7257 Q RK11D (including the backplane) > 22 M7762 H RL11 (RL01/RL02 controller - up to 4 drives) > 27 M7228 Q KW11-P real-time clock. > 29 M7800 Q > 31 M7800 Q > 33 M7800 Q DL-11E serial boards > 36 M7911 Q > 37 M7912 H > 38 M7821 fits in single slot (#2) > 38 M105 fits in single slot (#3) > 38 M796 fits in single slot (#4) > 38 M930 U bus terminator? installed in bottom two slots > 39 M795 installed u[pside down. Is this correct? TS03 controller (the entire backplane - these aren't SPC (Small Peripheral Controller) slots). Not sure about the M795 being upside-down. I'd check that before applying power. Sometimes non-DEC goobs aren't paying attention when they randomly pull boards. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 14:35:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <3E84A76B.5030104@aconit.org> Message-ID: <20030328203220.46879.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans B Pufal wrote: > Jay West wrote: > > Peter wrote.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >>If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > >>because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant > >>for a PDP-8/A. > > > > > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? > Ideas? > > Homebrewing an IDE interface and patching the software to run it would > be a FUN project ;-) I've been kicking around odd storage project ideas for *years* and have yet to do more than putter. I even have a couple of blank proto boards which would save me a *bundle* on a one-off (one hex, one quad and a couple of duals). I keep talking myself in circles about how best to do it. One thing that hold me back is what chips to use for OMNIBUS interfacing. I know what to use for Qbus (real DEC chips + LS240s, etc.). I know a few things to use for the OMNIBUS (7438, 7401), but the Nat'l Semi and other oddments are probably a poor choice for a new design. I also gyrate into inaction about hardwired logic vs GALs vs FPGAs vs microprocessors. Each has its good points and bad points (some are easier to build, some are easier to modify, some are cheaper to build) I also get tangled up in OMNIBUS vs posi/negi-bus devices. I have a little of everything here, and would prefer to build as few varieties of peripherals as possible. Finally, given how simple some of the devices are to implement (DF-32, RF-08, etc.), it's a choice of emulate an existing device or strike out in an entirely new direction. One is easier to build (but requires software effort), the other is easier to use but requires more design effort. I think I'll probably be happiest building someone elses design and let them ask/answer the hard questions. Construction is not the hard part for me; it's the woolgathering phase of design that I get stuck at. I'm happy to be part of the process of a group-think, but on my own, I just argue myself in circles about the best approach. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 14:36:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <003601c2f560$b0b4ce20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030328203331.98212.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jay West wrote: > Peter wrote.... > ----- Original Message ----- > > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant > > for a PDP-8/A. > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? Ideas? Not as such, but I did happen to run across a $300 RL8A on my quest to answer what's in that PDP-11/35 FC... that's about 1/2 of what I paid for my first one in 1986. :-P (but at least mine came with docs and cables) -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 28 15:02:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 FS on E-bay Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030328154812.5877688e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It works and looks like it's in good shape. Includes some manuals. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 28 15:03:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/35 FC? In-Reply-To: <20030328202334.26339.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030328150106.485752f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030328160243.58574f10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:23 PM 3/28/03 -0800, Ethan wrote: >--- Joe wrote: >> First, what's the significance of the FC on the model number? > >No idea. If this were "Suspended", I'd guess "Filter Computer" :-) I wondered if it had anything to do with the front panel. > >> Second, I went through chassis and here's a list of the cards in it. > >> Slot: Card: >> 4 M7231D H Data Path >> 7 CI M60 made by QED Q >> 9 90 CPU made by QED has DCJ11-AA IC Q >> 11 MS 95 made by QED H > >Neat - plenty of horsepower there! If you say so. Can you tell me more? > >> 15-16 M920 U >> 19-20 M920 U > >Jumper cards. What do they do, jumper the CPU section to memory section? Interesting comment about them here: > >http://www.varx.com/va01005.html > >I think they mean that in modern Unibus designs, the cable length >is suboptimal to prevent signal reflection. The newer jumper blocks >are taller with more mylar cable folded up inside. Consult DEC's >Unibus Handbook for details on Unibus configuration. I figure if >the machine has them now, they'll be OK, but if all you want to do >is hook some DD11CKs and DD11DKs together, go with the newer ones. > >> 16 M7254 Q >> 17 M7255 Q >> 18 M7256 Q >> 19 M7257 Q > >RK11D (including the backplane) > >> 22 M7762 H > >RL11 (RL01/RL02 controller - up to 4 drives) > >> 27 M7228 Q > >KW11-P real-time clock. > >> 29 M7800 Q >> 31 M7800 Q >> 33 M7800 Q > >DL-11E serial boards > >> 36 M7911 Q TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 >> 37 M7912 H TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 Hex I looked these two up and it looks like they're both tape controllers. Is that right? Why TWO controllers? There was both a PT reader/punch and mag tape drive on the system is that why it has two controllers? (Does each controller only handle one device?) >> 38 M7821 fits in single slot (#2) SINGLE HEIGHT INTERRUPT CONTROL BD >> 38 M105 fits in single slot (#3) >> 38 M796 fits in single slot (#4) SINGLE HEIGHT UNIBUS MASTER CONTROL BD >> 38 M930 U bus terminator? installed in bottom two slots >> 39 M795 installed u[pside down. Is this correct? > >TS03 controller (the entire backplane - these aren't SPC (Small Peripheral >Controller) slots). What's a TS-03 controller? Not sure about the M795 being upside-down. I'd >check that before applying power. Sometimes non-DEC goobs aren't paying >attention when they randomly pull boards. That's what I thought but I thought I'd ask the experts. Joe From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 28 15:04:34 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?) References: Message-ID: <3E84B7D0.6030200@aurora.regenstrief.org> So, what happened? Anybody took 'em? Was it true or too good to be true? -Gunther Douglas Meade wrote: > Sounds like a job for Dr. McGuire. > > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > >>Oops, it's not in TX, it's in Melbourne, FL and here is the URL >> >>http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE:4cPlistCKIE:prod11/750+ >> >>minimum QTY is 2. Hmm, very strange :-) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 15:10:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 FS on E-bay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030328154812.5877688e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030328210725.59961.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > > It works and looks like it's in good shape. Includes some manuals. Nice. I've just been watching old "Battlestar Galactica" re-runs and I was curious how they did their graphics. Love to have a copy of *those* routines! Is there a 4051 emulator anywhere out there on the 'net? Won't look as nice as a _real_ vector screen, but it's something. -ethan From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 28 15:13:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? Message-ID: <3E84BA46.3090800@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, Joe Moir from Boston just did the ultimate sell off of his VAX11 gear. Boy the stuff went for $50 per box. An 11/780, 11/785, and an 11/795, ahem, 8650. The were all in ugly parted out shape, but significant sources for spares. I now have an 11/785 backplane, and since my 11/780 doesn't work properly anyway, I can just as well start converting it. I almost had all three of those, but a fellow with ebay name "rtlacy" had made a little more decisive bids on them. Now I wonder, just in case, is anyone of you out in the Boston area, just in case? regards, -Gunther From charlesmorris at direcway.com Fri Mar 28 15:15:00 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: 8/L repairs In-Reply-To: <20030328185847.7060.20305.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030328185847.7060.20305.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:58:47 -0600, you wrote: >A) What rev M706 card do you have? Rev. K. That's one reason it took me a while to find, since the only schematics available seem to be the first revision (A?) >B) Would you write up where you attached your pullups? Check the schematic, it was on the preset lines to the 7474 containing stop bit 1 and stop bit 2... >Are you using a microprocessor on your DF32x4? FPGAs? PALs? TTL? Plain old 74LS and a Dallas Semi DS1258 128kx16 NVRAM. >How are you handling the cabling issue? Cables :) (I also laid out a PCB to plug in the backplane and accept a standard 40 pin IDC header connector). Had five fabricated and made 3 foot ribbon cables. > Do you have a way to load >the emulated disk devices "out of band"? (i.e., can you get data into >it in any way other than the databreak interface to the -8?) No, I took the DF32 manual and copied the specs as closely as possible. The 8/L should "think" it has a real DF32 and three expansion DS32's attached. > >> [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name >> of mvc-457e.jpg] > >What's the picture of? > >-ethan Pic is of the DF32x4 on the workbench. I'll send you a copy direct. -Charles From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Mar 28 15:17:00 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: PDP 8/L storage device In-Reply-To: <20030328024947.19923.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200303282113.PAA22226@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > I've just finished constructing my "DF32x4" disk simulator (PC > > boards in a 1U [1.75" high] rack chassis). I'm starting to debug > > now - so far I had a bad IDC connector and (of course) no spare. I > > will make Eagle .SCH and .BRD files available to anyone who wants > > them IF it ever works ;) > > That sounds great! I'm interested. I have a few -8/Ls and an -8/I that > could use a disk device. I even have one BM08, giving me 12K on one > -8/L. I'd *love* to be able to show off OS/8 on it. Count me in as well, finding mass storage for my /L is nearly impossible. -Lawrence LeMay From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 28 15:24:01 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: ebay bid on dec rack References: <00a001c2f2de$7f760e20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E84BCDA.4010002@aurora.regenstrief.org> So, did you end up getting this rack? I have enough RA8x but one of them needs the big Capacitor that will (hopefully) make it spin up again. So, if you have any spare ... Also, I have 2 racks one half high and another full height, of mid 90s StorageWorks gear, just the racks. I am too embarrassed to ask if anyone wants them, but they do go to the scrap yard soon. Indianapolis is the place. thanks -Gunther Jay West wrote: > FYI - I'm likely going to be bidding on the DEC "3 high" rack on Ebay that > includes an RA81. The RA81 is missing the HDA, and I have no need for it, I > just want the rack as it's the right height to mate to my 11/44X. If anyone > wants the RA81-HDA, let me know before it gets skipped. > > Jay West From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 15:26:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/35 FC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030328160243.58574f10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030328212339.55426.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > At 12:23 PM 3/28/03 -0800, Ethan wrote: > >> Slot: Card: > >> 4 M7231D H Data Path > >> 7 CI M60 made by QED Q > >> 9 90 CPU made by QED has DCJ11-AA IC Q > >> 11 MS 95 made by QED H > > > >Neat - plenty of horsepower there! > > If you say so. Can you tell me more? It has a 3rd-party CPU board with the same chip as the 11/73 through 11/93. I don't know the particular clock speed of any QED products, but you are looking at a box that is at least as powerful as a MicroPDP-11/73, and perhaps as powerful as a PDP-11/93 (the "90" is suggestive but not definitive). > >> 15-16 M920 U > >> 19-20 M920 U > > > >Jumper cards. > > What do they do, jumper the CPU section to memory section? They pass the Unibus across from backplane to backplane. If you look underneath, you'll see there is no connection from section to section. Each of those backplanes can be removed. Unlike a PeeCee, DEC stuff was modular, even in the CPU cabinet. After you left the CPU backplane, things started getting optional. > >> 36 M7911 Q TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 > >> 37 M7912 H TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 Hex > > I looked these two up and it looks like they're both tape controllers. > Is that right? Why TWO controllers? It's not two controllers. It's two parts of *one* controller. > There was both a PT reader/punch and > mag tape drive on the system is that why it has two controllers? (Does > each controller only handle one device?) No. These boards are both part of the same device. The PC05 controller is somewhere else (didn't see it in your list). It will be a single quad card with two 40-pin Berg connectors, IIRC. > >> 38 M7821 fits in single slot (#2) SINGLE HEIGHT INTERRUPT CONTROL BD > > >> 38 M105 fits in single slot (#3) > >> 38 M796 fits in single slot (#4) SINGLE HEIGHT UNIBUS MASTER CONTROL > BD > >> 38 M930 U bus terminator? installed in bottom two slots > >> 39 M795 installed u[pside down. Is this correct? > > > >TS03 controller (the entire backplane - these aren't SPC (Small > Peripheral Controller) slots). > > What's a TS-03 controller? A controller for a TS03 (or similar) magtape drive. DEC nomenclature "T" for tape, "TS" for one kind of register set (as opposed to "TM", which looks different to the CPU and uses different boot code and device drivers), "03" for a particular model of tape drive. The TS03 was 800 bpi (only?) and took small reels. It didn't even have a takeup reel - the tape packed on itself on a bare aluminum hub to save space - the entire tape drive was about the size of a toaster oven (19" wide, 10.5" tall and less than 24" deep). I expect that the controller could be used with other tape drives, but I haven't personally seen that. This entire backplane and all the cards I grouped together is the tape controller. You can't remove part of it and migrate it around, nor can you put other boards in this backplane and expect them to work. Unlike "modern" machines, just because the slots look identical from the top doesn't mean they _are_ identical. A slot that can take a single-card controller is called a "Small Peripheral Controller" slot (SPC) - it defines where to find what Unibus signals on what pins. The alternative is a device that has a backplane that is Unibus on the front and back (where the M920s, et al. go), but "random" in between. Cards like the M105 and the M796 are standard components in a Unibus controller of this vintage. Cards like the M7911 and M7912 are what make it a TS03 controller as opposed to an RH-11, for example. The M930 in the middle there is another common thing of that era - they used Unibus cables to get the tape drive signals from the controller backplane to the tape drive. There are a pair of H851s at the edge of the board in the TS03 drive to receive that cable. The RK05 uses a similar scheme - Unibus cables, but *not* Unibus signals. As long as the Field Engineer can keep them straight (not typically a problem), it's a good thing to reuse parts like that - keeps costs low and makes spares kits easier to stock. You have a mix of ancient and modern there (ancient being 1970-1978; modern being 1984-present). Not unusual in a machine that was bought many years ago and operated continuously since the present. Much like doing archaeology of an ancient city that's still occupied, it can cause confusion in the uninitated. I've never seen a machine quite like this, but no single part of it is terribly unusual. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 15:40:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: DF32x4 (was Re: 8/L repairs) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030328213802.47398.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Charles wrote: > >B) Would you write up where you attached your pullups? > > Check the schematic, it was on the preset lines to the 7474 > containing stop bit 1 and stop bit 2... That's good enough to find it. Thanks. > >Are you using a microprocessor on your DF32x4? FPGAs? PALs? TTL? > > Plain old 74LS and a Dallas Semi DS1258 128kx16 NVRAM. Interesting. Can't wait to see the plans. > >How are you handling the cabling issue? > > Cables :) :-) indeed. > (I also laid out a PCB to plug in the backplane and accept a > standard 40 pin IDC header connector). Had five fabricated and > made 3 foot ribbon cables. Sounds great. If several folks wanted to get into a bulk-buy, we could probably get a stack of those cheap. I was getting 12" long boards with inches of gold fingers (GG2 Bus+ - 100-pin Zorro plus 16-bit ISA) for well under $20 each, q 100., with silk screen and solder mask. Panelled out, something like this could be as cheap as a few bucks each in sufficient quantity. No matter what the device (external memory, external disk, etc.), I'd *love* to have a stack of inexpensive paddle cards to interconnect a variety of devices I have. Another bonus is that the modern end of the cable does *not* have to resort to hard-to-find DEC-style slots and fingers. 40-pin IDC stuff is about as cheap as it gets. Also, it might be interesting to experiment with them as a base for simple prototype modules (I keep kicking around an idea for a crystal-controlled M452 replacement for higher-than-110-baud use on an M706/M707 set) - just attach the "device" to the 40-pin spot and go. I could probably put dozens of these to use in the first few months, all by myself. I would probably even be willing to act as a point-of contact on a group order. The more the merrier. > > Do you have a way to load > >the emulated disk devices "out of band"? (i.e., can you get data into > >it in any way other than the databreak interface to the -8?) > > No, I took the DF32 manual and copied the specs as closely as > possible. The 8/L should "think" it has a real DF32 and three > expansion DS32's attached. Well... that's easy to build, anyway. I suppose it would be easy enough to make a parallel-port NVRAM programmer... > >What's the picture of? > > Pic is of the DF32x4 on the workbench. I'll send you a copy > direct. Thanks, -ethan From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Mar 28 15:44:00 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <003601c2f560$b0b4ce20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200303282141.PAA22689@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant > > for a PDP-8/A. > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? Ideas? There are no easy solutions. If you have a RL02, then you need a 8/a chassis, cables to connect it to your 8/E chassis, the Hex interface board, then the cable that goes between the interface and first drive, and a drive terminator. Odds are you dont have most of those parts. If you have a 8/F or 8/M, it is possible to remove one of the case fans, and install the hex wide interface into the chassis. Then you just need the cable for the first drive and the drive terminator. Otherwise, You need a quad wide RK05 interface (definitely available, but probably expensive), the cable (usually not available, but possible to manufacture), a RK05? drive, and drive terminator. Plus you need special 16 sector DECpacks to use with the RK05. Personally, I just bought a RK05j and when they get around to shipping it, I hope to finally have a chance of getting one of my 8/E's going with mass storage!... From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 15:57:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <200303282141.PAA22689@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20030328215434.60337.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > > > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's > > > meant for a PDP-8/A. > > > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? > > Ideas? > > There are no easy solutions. > > If you have a RL02, then you need a 8/a chassis, cables... interface... > ...cable ... terminator. Odds are you don't have most of those parts. With several machines, *I* don't even have all of those parts (never had any way to link up multiple backplanes) > If you have a 8/F or 8/M, it is possible to remove one of the case fans, > and install the hex wide interface into the chassis. Then you just need > the cable for the first drive and the drive terminator. Interesting suggestion. I don't have either an -8/F or -8/M and would not have thought of that. I do not know if the same cable arrangement works for the RL8A as the RL11, but if it did, that would be superb. I know of (at least) three arrangements: RL8A - custom cable - Berg on one end, RL01/RL02 on the other RL11 - ordinary DEC 40-pin shielded cable to a transition connector typically bolted to the rack near the first drive RLV12 - custom cable, but not the same part number as the RL8A cable. Since the transition connector is *identical* to the pair that are screwed to the back of a drive, they can be had when scrapping a dead drive if not already available. The rack mounting bracket is another matter, but that's easily fabricated/replicated. > Otherwise, You need a quad wide RK05 interface (definitely available, but > probably expensive), Probably expensive, but not *commonly* available. > the cable (usually not available, but possible to manufacture), I'm going to use the one from my RKV11D (since I don't really need an RK05 on a Qbus PDP-11 full time). It's the same paddle and dual- 40-pin cable set. > a RK05? drive, and drive terminator. Drive terminators are relatively common - M930 Unibus terminator (the short one that you *don't* use in "modern" boxes) > Plus you need special 16 sector DECpacks to use with the RK05. Most rare (unless you find a cache of them). I have many 12-sector packs, collected over 20 years. I have *two* 16-sector packs (also collected over 20 years). > Personally, I just bought a RK05j and when they get around to shipping > it, I hope to finally have a chance of getting one of my 8/E's going > with mass storage!... Good luck with that. I'm right there behind you, once I get the -8/e debugged (got spare parts present or on the way!) I've used RK05s on PDP-11s, but not a PDP-8, yet. -ethan From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Mar 28 15:57:36 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <200303282141.PAA22689@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200303282141.PAA22689@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1048888349.2041.21.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 13:41, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > > > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's meant > > > for a PDP-8/A. > > > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? Ideas? > > There are no easy solutions. > > If you have a RL02, then you need a 8/a chassis, cables to connect it to > your 8/E chassis, the Hex interface board, then the cable that goes between > the interface and first drive, and a drive terminator. Odds are you dont > have most of those parts. > > If you have a 8/F or 8/M, it is possible to remove one of the case fans, > and install the hex wide interface into the chassis. Then you just need > the cable for the first drive and the drive terminator. > > Otherwise, You need a quad wide RK05 interface (definitely available, but > probably expensive), the cable (usually not available, but possible to > manufacture), a RK05? drive, and drive terminator. Plus you need special > 16 sector DECpacks to use with the RK05. The RK8E is a 3 board set that plugs into the Omnibus. There are a set of cables that go from the RK8E to the drive. Taking an old BC11 cable paddle and rigging it with connectors for the cables from the RK8E *may* be the easiest path. The cables from the RK8E is two ribbon cables (forget how many conductors right now). The drive terminator is nothing more than a plain old M930 (Unibus terminator). > > Personally, I just bought a RK05j and when they get around to shipping it, > I hope to finally have a chance of getting one of my 8/E's going with > mass storage!... -- TTFN - Guy From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 28 16:06:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: AXP 7000 startup, now doing OSF/1 Message-ID: <3E84C6AF.7060905@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I have installed OSF/1 on the AXP 7000 and it's working. Quite a bit more snappy than the VAX6460. Man, I have no room for this machine left and now I love it so much! I'd give you login account (over my dialup IP) just the problem I am having is that after I built the custom kernel it still won't let any user other than root login. It says "too many users logged in alread, try again later". And that with zero users logged in at the time. Can you think of any file I might be overlooking? I can only think of /etc/nologin or something. My maxusers is at 32 in the kernel configuration. I can't think why this would not be correct in the kernel. regards, -Gunther From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Mar 28 16:08:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: 3.5" 720K floppy drives Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030328141120.05c08350@mail.zipcon.net> anyone have any of these floating around? I may need a few in the near future From cb at mythtech.net Fri Mar 28 16:19:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: 3.5" 720K floppy drives Message-ID: >anyone have any of these floating around? I may need a few in the near >future I have one, but I'm not sure if it works 100% of the time. I've had problems with it in the past, but I never bothered to debug enough to see if it was the drive, or something else (it was only used for one job, and the client for that job was notorious for sending bad disks, so it could simply have always been the disks). Its a 3.5" in a 5.25" half height case (not a removable adaptor shell, but an actual 5.25 casing). If you want it, you can have it for the cost of shipping from 07450. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 16:38:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <1048888349.2041.21.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> Message-ID: <20030328223511.17516.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Guy Sotomayor wrote: > The RK8E is a 3 board set that plugs into the Omnibus. With several H851s... I got a board set a while back, but no way to interconnect the boards. That's the biggest pain when dealing with quad-high OMNIBUS boards. > There are a set > of cables that go from the RK8E to the drive. Taking an old BC11 cable > paddle and rigging it with connectors for the cables from the RK8E *may* > be the easiest path. Going from scratch, I'd recommend using a dual-height prototype card and adding your own connectors to it. There's a source of them for a few $$$ ($25?) but I can't find it right now. > The cables from the RK8E is two ribbon cables > (forget how many conductors right now). 40 each. Not even shielded (on my RKV11D). > The drive terminator is nothing more than a plain old M930 (Unibus > terminator). Yep. -ethan From shirsch at adelphia.net Fri Mar 28 17:03:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: <200303280014.QAA18699@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > > > >On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > > > >> Is there any (easy) way to use an H89 as a serial terminal, VT100 even? > > > >Yes. The H89 was an H11 terminal with CPU and drive control boards added. > > He means H19, not H11. > Dwight Yes, , it's amazing how many braincells slip away in 13 years... Steve From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 28 17:14:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: AXP 7000 startup, now doing OSF/1 In-Reply-To: from "Gunther Schadow" at Mar 28, 2003 05:03:27 PM Message-ID: <200303282312.h2SNC3wp019445@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have installed OSF/1 on the AXP 7000 and it's working. Quite a bit > more snappy than the VAX6460. Man, I have no room for this machine > left and now I love it so much! I don't doubt it's a nice machine, much larger than I'm brave enough to tackle though. The biggest such machine I'd like would be a VAX4000 class system. Eventually I'd like to get something like an DS20 or ES40 for running VMSon. > I'd give you login account (over my dialup IP) just the problem I > am having is that after I built the custom kernel it still won't > let any user other than root login. It says "too many users logged > in alread, try again later". And that with zero users logged in > at the time. Can you think of any file I might be overlooking? > I can only think of /etc/nologin or something. My maxusers is at 32 > in the kernel configuration. I can't think why this would not be > correct in the kernel. Do you have License PAK's installed that allow multiple users? For that matter, do you have any License PAK's installed? If you don't have licenses, a lot of stuff won't work. Zane From bqt at update.uu.se Fri Mar 28 17:32:00 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? In-Reply-To: <3E84BA46.3090800@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Joe Moir from Boston just did the ultimate sell off of his VAX11 gear. > Boy the stuff went for $50 per box. An 11/780, 11/785, and an 11/795, > ahem, 8650. The were all in ugly parted out shape, but significant > sources for spares. I now have an 11/785 backplane, and since my 11/780 > doesn't work properly anyway, I can just as well start converting it. *Sigh* So we have another bunch of machines that will never run again, just because someone figured he could make more money by selling them off in pieces. Oh well, since we're at it: does anyone have 64MB or 16MB boards for an 86x0 machine? I'd sure love some. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 28 17:58:00 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? References: Message-ID: <3E84E104.2020707@aurora.regenstrief.org> Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > >>Joe Moir from Boston just did the ultimate sell off of his VAX11 gear. >>Boy the stuff went for $50 per box. An 11/780, 11/785, and an 11/795, >>ahem, 8650. The were all in ugly parted out shape, but significant >>sources for spares. I now have an 11/785 backplane, and since my 11/780 >>doesn't work properly anyway, I can just as well start converting it. > > > *Sigh* > So we have another bunch of machines that will never run again, just > because someone figured he could make more money by selling them off in > pieces. > > Oh well, since we're at it: does anyone have 64MB or 16MB boards for an > 86x0 machine? I'd sure love some. Nono, you got that message wrong. Joe Moir was in the parts reselling business and he didn't have too bad prices and it does come in handy if you just need a few boards replaced. Anyway, he had now been selling off 3 big machines, which I think is nice (although it gets me worried he might leave the business.) If you can find out who this "rtlacy" guy is -- he must be one of us, as he's been collecting a bunch of DEC parts -- then you could ask him for the 8650 RAM boards. Well, now that I think about it, he could also be a DEC reseller with some local market (he hasn't been selling parts on ebay, largely a buyer's profile. regards, -Gunther From bqt at update.uu.se Fri Mar 28 18:03:01 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? In-Reply-To: <3E84E104.2020707@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > *Sigh* > > So we have another bunch of machines that will never run again, just > > because someone figured he could make more money by selling them off in > > pieces. > > > > Oh well, since we're at it: does anyone have 64MB or 16MB boards for an > > 86x0 machine? I'd sure love some. > > Nono, you got that message wrong. Joe Moir was in the parts reselling > business and he didn't have too bad prices and it does come in handy > if you just need a few boards replaced. Anyway, he had now been selling > off 3 big machines, which I think is nice (although it gets me worried > he might leave the business.) Ah. Then I apologize (even if he don't see this). If he already have them in parts, and his prices are reasonable, then he's a valuable resource. > If you can find out who this "rtlacy" guy is -- he must be one of us, > as he's been collecting a bunch of DEC parts -- then you could ask him > for the 8650 RAM boards. Well, now that I think about it, he could > also be a DEC reseller with some local market (he hasn't been selling > parts on ebay, largely a buyer's profile. I very seldom visit eBay, since I think it's in general a bad place for keeping hardware running. Just makes me depressed looking at that site. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 28 18:07:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: help with external floppy drive In-Reply-To: <012e01c2f51a$a78d3800$b755ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, pmulry wrote: > Please help with info of this floppy drive. > > 3 1/2" floppy drive external aluminium case > manufacturer : California Access > model no. : CA-880 > fccid : gea4btrf302c > Made In Hong Kong > > Need to know the system its designed to run on (ie: dos,unix etc) and > available drivers. I am pretty sure this is a drive for the Amiga (I have one). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 28 18:07:34 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? References: Message-ID: <3E84E323.2020301@aurora.regenstrief.org> Johnny Billquist wrote: > I very seldom visit eBay, since I think it's in general a bad place for > keeping hardware running. > Just makes me depressed looking at that site. Then where do you get your parts from? You must be lucky or just more patient than I am to get by without ebay. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From bqt at update.uu.se Fri Mar 28 18:10:01 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? In-Reply-To: <3E84E323.2020301@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > I very seldom visit eBay, since I think it's in general a bad place for > > keeping hardware running. > > Just makes me depressed looking at that site. > > Then where do you get your parts from? You must be lucky or just > more patient than I am to get by without ebay. Patient, I guess. I've saved junk from companies for the last 15 years or so by now. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From ceo at coherent-logic.com Fri Mar 28 18:46:01 2003 From: ceo at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? References: Message-ID: <000f01c2f58c$4215d9b0$8500000a@music> I'm of the opinion that in the case of great old hardware, it's worthwhile to get it off ePay if just to save it from a fate that would be far worse... +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | John P. Willis, MCP, SBI, NASA-STD-8739.5 | Coherent Logic Development | | Chief Executive Officer | "Multiplatform Solutions | | Coherent Logic Development | for a Multiplatform World" | +------------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | web: http://www.coherent-logic.com/ | | e-mail: ceo@coherent-logic.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnny Billquist" To: "Gunther Schadow" Cc: ; "port-vax" Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: Re: Vaxen vultures on ebay ... and is "rtlacy" here? > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > > I very seldom visit eBay, since I think it's in general a bad place for > > > keeping hardware running. > > > Just makes me depressed looking at that site. > > > > Then where do you get your parts from? You must be lucky or just > > more patient than I am to get by without ebay. > > Patient, I guess. I've saved junk from companies for the last 15 years or > so by now. > > Johnny > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 28 18:56:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: AXP 7000 startup, now doing OSF/1 In-Reply-To: <200303282312.h2SNC3wp019445@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Mar 28, 2003 03:12:03 PM Message-ID: <20030329005320.30D0F7F53@dittman.net> > > I have installed OSF/1 on the AXP 7000 and it's working. Quite a bit > > more snappy than the VAX6460. Man, I have no room for this machine > > left and now I love it so much! > > I don't doubt it's a nice machine, much larger than I'm brave enough to > tackle though. The biggest such machine I'd like would be a VAX4000 class > system. Eventually I'd like to get something like an DS20 or ES40 for > running VMSon. I know what you mean. I keep a VAX 4000-100A for VAX stuff, an Alphastation 500/500 as a workstation, and my main server is an Alphaserver 4100 5/466. I don't think I'd want to have something much bigger than the AS4100. An ES40 would not be bad. It's the same size as a rack-mounted AS4100. The only thing to do is wait until they come down in price. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Fri Mar 28 19:05:01 2003 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:39 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD, Reading under Linux/BSD ? In-Reply-To: <1048803676.3e83795c1a464@appsrv1.paravolve.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030328200016.01921480@mail.itm-inst.com> At 05:21 PM 3/27/2003 -0500, cctech@classiccmp.org wrote: >I want to attempt to install OpenVMS 7.2 via MOP over the network, to >do this I >need to get the files off the CD since I don't actually have another >VAX to read >the CD on. (I'm using a Linux host running mopd... I was able to install >NetBSD that way) > >Anyone know how I could read the data off the CD under Linux or *BSD ? Hunter Goatley to the rescue - see http://www.goatley.com/hunter/w2k.html where he has a pointer to his ODS2 reader for Windows and Linux. He specifically says it's able to read the VMS CDs. -Rick From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Mar 28 19:07:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] References: Message-ID: <01a301c2f58f$520eb820$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:08 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [Suns-at-Home] [robc@solarflares.net: SPARCServer 2000, anyone want one?] > > In my experience, U.S. clothes dryers don't use twist-lock plugs. So > > I'd expect them to use a NEMA 6-20R or 6-30R non-locking receptacle. > > I have never seen a clothes dryer with a twist lock (but they may be out > there). Well, I just meant that it might not be as scary as `three phase' makes it sound. > > William Donzelli Bob From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 28 19:22:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 FS on E-bay References: <20030328210725.59961.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005f01c2f591$351f4520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Is there a 4051 emulator anywhere out there on the 'net? > Won't look as nice as a _real_ vector screen,... TEK device language had decent backward compatibility. The old machines had pretty much just moveto,drawto,textat type commands, so emulators are easy. If I recall, even the DEC VT330/40 had an emulator. A lot of books talk about Plot10, but that's a just a SW package that translated these codes on the host. Tek 4051 was a complete workstation, with a high level language (BASIC) so was probably reeeel slow, like 6 frames per _minute_ or worse, depending on the object detail. Note: these machines have nothing to do with photorealistic CGI, that was nearly 10 years later. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 28 19:44:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Mar 27, 3 04:16:24 pm Message-ID: > > The hardware solution is to disconnect the internal serial cable from the > > termianl logic PCB (the rearmost vertical PCB in the machine) and replace > > it with one of the cables that goes to a DB25 connector on the back > > (these cables are normally connected to the serial port PCB plugged into > > the computer mainboard, just in front of the terminal logic PCB). The > > cables have a Molex 0.1" pitch SIL connector on the end, and fortunately, > > the pinout of all the internal serial connectors (terminal logic PCB, > > computer 'console port', serial port PCB) is the same. > > Ouch... > > > The software solution is to write a little program that transfers > > characters between the computer's console port and one of the other > > serial ports. This will then make the computer section appear as a > > transparent link between the terminal and the outside world. > > much easier than any of the above... get a copy of MDM712 or similar > terminal emulation program. MDM712 comes with a serial port driver for This is obviously some new definition of 'much easier' :-)... You're suggesting I find some program I've never heard of (OK, google will presumably find it) and then transfer it onto an H89 disk -- some H89s have hard-sector controllers only, so transfering it could be 'interesting'... What if the only OS you have for your H89 is HDOS? (I assume this is a CP/M program). I'm suggesting opening the case (2 spring catches) and swapping round 2 internal cables. No rewiring, no soldering, etc. Admittedly the terminal logic board is a _pain_ to get to, but.... I guess if you just want to use the H89 as a terminal, then the hardware solution is easier (you also don't have to boot CP/M and run a program). If you want ot be able to switch between using it as a computer and using it as a terminal then you need to track down this program. > H8/89. Plug your device into the spare serial port on the back of the > (unopened) machine, and that should do it. Some '89's have three-port > serial cards... I don't know which ends up being which or whether MDM712 I think the 3-port card (3 off 8250) is standard... Now there's a thought -- putting 16550s in an H89 and modifying the software to use the FIFOs... > lets you choose, all of my '89's are down right now. :-/ What's wrong with them? These machines are not exactly complicated or hard to fix (at least not compared with some machines I've worked on). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 28 19:44:46 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: <200303280040.QAA18718@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Mar 27, 3 04:40:38 pm Message-ID: > Why would you assume that finding and installing some > software would be easier than making up a simple molex adapter > connector. As I recall, it was a 9 pin molex but I could > be wrong. That is all of 9 wires to deal with. IIRC it's easier than that. The pinout of the connectors on the 3-port serial card and the pinout of the RS232 connector on the terminal logic board are the _same_. So all you have to do is move a complete connector from one board to the other -- no wires to swap round, or adapters to make up. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 28 19:45:18 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: DEC RL-01? In-Reply-To: <20030328005852.11959.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 27, 3 04:58:52 pm Message-ID: > I have several that I have used on my PDP-8/a. AFAIK, every controller > (including the RL8A) that talks to an RL02 will also talk to an RL01. The 'Integrated Disk Controller' (or whatever they called it) on the 11/730 was claimed to support the R80 and the RL02. I've never heard of one connected to an RL01. I can't believe it's a hardware limitation (the interface is virtually identical), but possibly the RL01 was not supported in software or something. Or maybe it just works fine even though it was never supported. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 28 19:46:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Apple II Graphics Tablet In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Mar 27, 3 11:15:41 pm Message-ID: > I recently acquired an Apple II graphics tablet, along with the controller > and a plastic overlay that isn't in great shape. Does anyone have any > overlays for this thing? It's really cool and I'd like to get it all cleaned I think the overlay was custom Apple (it had the funcion menu across the top), but the tablet was actually a Sumagraphics unit with an Apple interface card (the pen and the tablet driver PCB are Sumagraphics). Maybe a standard Sumagraphics overlay could be used (write in the menu functions by hand or something). > up nicely and connected to my II+. It's a fun toy. I got one surplus before I had an Apple ][, so I made an interface to connect it to my CoCo. The digital side wasn't too bad (a CoCo protortyping card covered in TTL counters, etc). But I also had to make a box with a PSU, drivers fro the tablet trigger lines, and the sense amplifier for the pen in it. Getting that working, without the amplifier picking up noise, was an entertainment. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 28 21:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 FS on E-bay In-Reply-To: <20030328210725.59961.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030328154812.5877688e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030328221056.0f37bd1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ethan, The same guy has a bunch of "Battlestar Galactica" stuff. I wonder if that's what got him interested in the 4051 to begin with? Joe At 01:07 PM 3/28/03 -0800, you wrote: >--- Joe wrote: >> > >> It works and looks like it's in good shape. Includes some manuals. > > >Nice. I've just been watching old "Battlestar Galactica" re-runs and >I was curious how they did their graphics. > >Love to have a copy of *those* routines! > >Is there a 4051 emulator anywhere out there on the 'net? Won't look >as nice as a _real_ vector screen, but it's something. > >-ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 28 21:20:35 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/35 FC? In-Reply-To: <20030328212339.55426.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030328160243.58574f10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030328221837.109f774a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks for the additional details. One question: > >> >> 36 M7911 Q TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 >> >> 37 M7912 H TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 Hex >> >> I looked these two up and it looks like they're both tape controllers. >> Is that right? Why TWO controllers? > >It's not two controllers. It's two parts of *one* controller. OK then why are both "Control 1"? They both sound like the first card of a set. Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 22:56:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/35 FC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030328221837.109f774a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030329045320.17781.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > Thanks for the additional details. One question: > > > > >> >> 36 M7911 Q TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 > >> >> 37 M7912 H TMB11 TAPE CONTROL 1 Hex . . . > OK then why are both "Control 1"? They both sound like the first card > of a set. I have absolutely no idea. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 22:58:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: AXP 7000 startup, now doing OSF/1 In-Reply-To: <20030329005320.30D0F7F53@dittman.net> Message-ID: <20030329045603.56035.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > An ES40 would not be bad. It's the same > size as a rack-mounted AS4100. The only thing to do > is wait until they come down in price. I know where a couple of those are, but I'll have to wait until my employer gets tired of them. It could be a while. :-( -ethan From rickb at bensene.com Fri Mar 28 23:25:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 FS on E-bay In-Reply-To: <005f01c2f591$351f4520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004401c2f5b3$356f1a60$030aa8c0@bensene.com> The "motion vector" displays that were generated for Battlestar Galactica were not done on the 4051. They were done on the Tektronix 4081, which was a very interesting machine. 19" DVST (Direct View Storage Tube) for the display, which had a mode which was called "write-thru" which allowed the beam to run at a reduced intensity which would cause line segments not to 'store'. If the beam was moved around fast enough, you could do moving vectors. The 4081 was based on an OEM'd Interdata 7/16 CPU board. As I recall, the Interdata 7/16 had an IBM 360-like instruction set. It was a 16-bit CPU, made to run with core memory (thus it had a write-sense-rewrite memory cycle). Tektronix designed a specialized display processor, which would share main memory with the CPU, and operated on "display lists". The display processor was fast enough that it could draw vector graphics in write-thru mode fast enough that (if there weren't too many segments) you could do some pretty good animations without flicker. As I recall, the display processor was reasonably smart...allowing a series of vectors to be 'connected' together as an entity, and all that was necessary to move it around was to update the display list parameters that stated the origin of the object, e.g., early sprites. The 4081 CPU cabinet was about the size of one of those small refrigerators that you can put under a desk. The systems booted (IPL'd) off a mag-tape cartridge, the same type as used on the 4051. The 4081 generally came with at least one cartridge disk drive (ala DEC RK05, but made by CDC as I recall) with one fixed, and one removable cartridge platter, each of about 5 Megabytes. There was an operating system for the machine, but I can't remember for the life of me what it was called. Most of the programming was done in a macro assembler, though I think that there was a FORTRAN complier also available for the machine, along with PLOT 10 libraries. Tektronix graphics programmers worked with the producers of the show to generate the vector animation graphics on the 4081. There *was* a modification that some folks did to the 4051 which allowed it to also do write-thru animation, but the only way to get anything useful was to write machine code (4051 BASIC had a means to fill a character string with machine code and execute it) to run the display system. With tightly written code (the 4051 used a Motorola 6800 CPU), it was possible to do some simple animations without too much flicker. I once saw a "space war" style game run on such a modified 4051, and it wasn't bad at all. The later 4052 and 4054 machines, with their biploar implementations of the 6800 instruction set, I believe had a 'write thru' mode to allow vector graphic animation to be done without having to do hardware modifications. I know all of this because I worked at Tektronix at the time, and did a lot of programming on the 4081 and 4051. I remember a big story in 'Tekweek' (Tektronix' internal company newspaper) about Tektronix contributing so heavily to the production of Battlestar Galactica. Not only were a lot of 4051's used, they also used a lot of TM500 modular test equipment on the set. Rick Bensene Tektronix employee - 1977-1990 The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com From patrick at evocative.com Fri Mar 28 23:38:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > lets you choose, all of my '89's are down right now. :-/ > > What's wrong with them? These machines are not exactly complicated or > hard to fix (at least not compared with some machines I've worked on). > > -tony > Tony, One, new to me, is popping caps and just needs a little TLC, I think; I haven't yet left it on long enough to figure out how much of it is working. It sounds like a popcorn popper, doesn't smell as nice. It goes throught he motions at power up, but can't read a diskette. One was delivered to me stripped of its serial card and floppy controller, and I've just this week received replacement parts for it (both marked suspect but I'm undaunted). That batch also included a H/Z-37 soft-sectored disk controller, and an H/Z-67 hard disk controller (apparently SASI) that I'm eager to play with. My "reference" machine is currently in storage after a rather aggressive remodel of part of my house (which includes the creation of a new work area for all of these machines plus some). You're correct, they're not hard to work on; having little time and fat fingers not well-suited to tight spaces have been my biggest barriers. I've got another project going right now, and until that's launched, I won't have time, so this state of affairs is likely to persist for the '89's and other recent acquisitions for the foreseeable future. > This is obviously some new definition of 'much easier' :-)... Yeah, OK. :-) Dwight already took me to the woodshed for that. Poor choice of words on my part. Patrick From hansp at aconit.org Sat Mar 29 01:24:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <20030328223511.17516.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030328223511.17516.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E8549A2.1090604@aconit.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Going from scratch, I'd recommend using a dual-height prototype card > and adding your own connectors to it. There's a source of them for > a few $$$ ($25?) but I can't find it right now. http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html ? they seem more expensive than you mention -- hbp From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Sat Mar 29 01:45:01 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 FS on E-bay In-Reply-To: <004401c2f5b3$356f1a60$030aa8c0@bensene.com> References: <005f01c2f591$351f4520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <004401c2f5b3$356f1a60$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: <4532.4.20.168.178.1048923779.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Rick wrote about the Tektronix 4081: > 19" DVST (Direct View Storage Tube) for the display, which had a mode > which was called "write-thru" which allowed the beam to run at a reduced > intensity which would cause line segments > not to 'store'. If the beam was moved around fast enough, you could do > moving vectors. > The 4081 was based on an OEM'd Interdata 7/16 CPU board. As I recall, > the Interdata 7/16 > had an IBM 360-like instruction set. Always wondered what was inside the 4081. I only saw one once, but I was extremely impressed. > The 4081 CPU cabinet was about the size of one of those small > refrigerators that you can put under a desk. The systems booted (IPL'd) > off a mag-tape cartridge, the same type as used on the 4051. The 4081 > generally came with at least one cartridge disk drive (ala DEC RK05, but > made by CDC > as I recall) with one fixed, and one removable cartridge platter, each > of about 5 Megabytes. The DEC RK03 was a 2.5MB Diablo 31 drive, and the RK05 was a DEC-made drive which was fully compatible with it. The "equivalent" 5M fixed/5M removable drive is a Diablo 44, if memory serves. I think the CDC equivalent was the Hawk, but I'm not sure if the packs were interchangeable with the Diablo 44. > There *was* a modification that some folks did to the 4051 which allowed > it to also do write-thru > animation, I'd love to learn more about that! > but the only way to get anything useful was to write machine > code (4051 BASIC had a means to fill a character string with machine > code and execute it) to run the display system. And that, too! Eric From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Mar 29 03:08:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: An on-topic machine *still* doing useful work In-Reply-To: <1c3.74d8e3e.2bb5c1a2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030329194955.010acc00@mail.optushome.com.au> At 10:17 AM 3/28/03 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/27/2003 11:56:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, >spc@conman.org writes: > ><< I thought you guys might enjoy the following photographs of a 486 based > NCR 3230 that is *still* in use, as a colocated server running a dozen > websites (including mine [1]) and email: > > http://www.conman.org/people/myg/photos/tower486/ > > The photos were taken by my friend (who happened to stop the colocation > facility for another reason). >> > > >I've got one even better! Some companies are still using Atari Mega STs to >run mail inserters. I'm trying to get one of these machines from a site that >is upgrading. In shopping centres around here (Melbourne, Australia) you sometimes find these print your own business card machines that are Atari ST based. I'm not sure which ST as I've never seen inside one, but they crash with the familiar ST bombs every now and then. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Mar 29 06:14:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?3.5=22?= 720K floppy drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030329115608.23918.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> chris writes: >>anyone have any of these floating around? I may need a few in the near >>future > I have some Teac drives, but since they do work on my Amigas I'm very reluctant to part with them, unless . . . I would trade for a Chinon FZ357A drive (HD) or a 360k 5 1/4" drive. The Chinon must be the "A" suffix, as it is one of the few HD drives that will work with the Amiga. It runs the spindle at half speed for HD read/writes. FZ357's are very common, the A model isn't. You have to read the back panel to get the numbers. I think most of these are landfill fodder now, thanks to PeeCee obsolesence. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Mar 29 07:58:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Free Stuff in Dallas, TX Message-ID: <3E85A71F.1070401@charter.net> I had someone pick up the Amiga stuff, but I still have some things that have to go: Calcomp 1043GT "E" plotter with a couple of hundred pens Numonics 2200 "E" size digitizer with power supply, puck and cables Tandy 2000 with keyboard, VM-1 monitor Tandy 1400LT with power brick. The battery is dead, but the syatem boots. Batteries+ said that they could rebuild the battery. Everything works, I just don't have the room anymore. If nobody wants this stuff, it's going to the curb. I'm located in Rockwall, Tx but I work near downtown Dallas. Almost any area in the metroplex can be arranged for a pickup. -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 29 10:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <3E8549A2.1090604@aconit.org> Message-ID: <20030329160014.93875.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans B Pufal wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Going from scratch, I'd recommend using a dual-height prototype card > > and adding your own connectors to it. There's a source of them for > > a few $$$ ($25?) but I can't find it right now. > > > http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html ? > > they seem more expensive than you mention OK... $27.51 for the model I was thinking of (21-DE-77 - 0.1" grid, dual-height, single width). -ethan From hansp at aconit.org Sat Mar 29 11:46:01 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <20030329160014.93875.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030329160014.93875.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E85DB8C.1080903@aconit.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Hans B Pufal wrote: >>Ethan Dicks wrote: >>>Going from scratch, I'd recommend using a dual-height prototype card >>>and adding your own connectors to it. There's a source of them for >>>a few $$$ ($25?) but I can't find it right now. >>http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html ? >>they seem more expensive than you mention > OK... $27.51 for the model I was thinking of (21-DE-77 - 0.1" grid, > dual-height, single width). Sorry, I thought you meant quad width cards. This was the reference you were thinking of I presume. -- hbp From anheier at owt.com Sat Mar 29 15:24:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Two more DEC boards need home. Message-ID: I have two DEC boards left from my clean out. They are M8200 YA M8201 Good shape, untested. $8 for both + shipping. Please send me your zip code and I prefer paypal. Thanks! Norm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 29 16:36:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Mar 28, 3 09:35:55 pm Message-ID: > > > lets you choose, all of my '89's are down right now. :-/ > > > > What's wrong with them? These machines are not exactly complicated or > > hard to fix (at least not compared with some machines I've worked on). > > > > -tony > > > > Tony, > > One, new to me, is popping caps and just needs a little TLC, I think; I If you're lucky that will just be old capacitors that have decided to fail. If you're unlucky, it'll be a PSU problem (bad ground on one of the 3 terminal regulators?) that means that one of the supply lines is way overvoltage. Which will then kill the capacitors _and chips_. [...] > for all of these machines plus some). You're correct, they're not hard to > work on; having little time and fat fingers not well-suited to tight spaces > have been my biggest barriers. I've got another project going right now, The rule I discovered when working on my Z90 was 'Think what order the various bits were made/installed, and take the latest ones out first'. In other words, take ou the disk drive, then the expansion PCBs, then the CPU board, and finally the terminal logic board (OK, and then the monitor parts if you have to). -tony From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Mar 29 16:55:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: hp-85A & 128K mem module question Message-ID: I don't have access to my books at the moment. Does anyone know what command or process you would use on a HP-85A to verify that the 128K Memory Module that plugs into the back of The HP is working. I seem to remember that the 85A needs a ROM to use a 128K Memory Module. If this is true what one? I just looked in my 1982 HP Catalog and it indicates that the 85A cannot access that much memory, that it was limited to max of 112K in a certain configuration. I cannot find my 1984 catalog at the moment and my 85 books are buried in storage. Any help appreciated. Paxton Astoria, OR From jwb at paravolve.net Sat Mar 29 17:13:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40S Drive... Caddy? Message-ID: <20030329180459.469e932f.jwb@paravolve.net> Available device DKB100: device type RRD40S I have one of these in my VAXserver 3100... It appears to take a caddy? Is this the type of thing I could hope to find on ebay? -jwb -- ## James W. Brinkerhoff ## ## GPG Key Sig: EBF1 6C24 0814 A3E9 6E93 649C 1F25 D807 E484 C9B9 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Mar 29 17:39:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40S Drive... Caddy? In-Reply-To: <20030329180459.469e932f.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: <006101c2f64b$b0ff59e0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> I would expect those caddys are pretty easy to find. Ebay would be a good bet. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of James W. Brinkerhoff Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:05 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: DEC RRD40S Drive... Caddy? Available device DKB100: device type RRD40S I have one of these in my VAXserver 3100... It appears to take a caddy? Is this the type of thing I could hope to find on ebay? -jwb From dan at ekoan.com Sat Mar 29 18:00:01 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Service Manual wanted for DEC VT-125 terminal In-Reply-To: <3E7FB84F.4090806@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <952B9E24-6242-11D7-9336-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Hello, I bought a DEC VT-125 terminal today. The text mode appears to function correctly except that at powerup it displays the message "VT125 IC Error" Resetting the terminal and reseating the cards has not corrected the problem. Does anyone have a service manual or other troubleshooting documents that might help me fix this error? Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com//wanted.html From dan at ekoan.com Sat Mar 29 18:22:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache boot disks? In-Reply-To: <3E7FB84F.4090806@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <295EFE3E-6243-11D7-9336-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Hello, I purchased an Otrona Attache "luggable" computer with two floppy drives and an add-on HP-IB interface. It did not come with any software or manuals. Does anyone have a set of boot disks for this machine? I'd also be interested in hearing about any software that makes use of the HP-IB interface. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Mar 29 23:24:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? Message-ID: <7392F1F9-626F-11D7-A11F-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> If they are not OT please let me know... Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra ethernet card, with the driver diskette. (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant glasses ) I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... :^) Thanks. Ron. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Mar 29 23:31:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility Message-ID: <200303292128070678.8867BEC3@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into separate odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate (smaller) EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite programmer do this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting utility will do the trick. Here's the problem; I've searched all over Google, and can't find anything that'll work. Any ideas? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Mar 29 23:40:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? References: <7392F1F9-626F-11D7-A11F-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <003701c2f67d$ded2d860$0400fea9@game> Hmm, try installing windows for workgroups and use the TCP/IP software addon from microsoft. This software allows dhcp network setup, and has FTP built in. DOS used a netbios interface for networks I think. Only network software I remember for dos was lantastic, novel, and the stuff that came with doom (IPX network) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:21 AM Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? > If they are not OT please let me know... > > Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? > > I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra > ethernet card, with the driver diskette. > > > (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant glasses ) > > > I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... > > :^) > > Thanks. > > Ron. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Mar 29 23:44:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: <7392F1F9-626F-11D7-A11F-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > If they are not OT please let me know... > > Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? > > I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra > ethernet card, with the driver diskette. > > > (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant glasses ) > > > I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... You'll need Microsoft LAN Manager. You can find it on an NT install CD, or if you search Microsoft's website, or you can make it easy on yourself and ask me to send you what you need. My voicemail system is networked with it, but I don't think I ever tried to access it with Samba from a Linux box (I can access other MS Windows machines from the voicemail server, but not the other way around). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From drido at optushome.com.au Sun Mar 30 00:05:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40S Drive... Caddy? In-Reply-To: <006101c2f64b$b0ff59e0$7d3ca8c0@blafleur> References: <20030329180459.469e932f.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030330174729.01099220@mail.optushome.com.au> At 06:34 PM 3/29/03 -0500, you wrote: >I would expect those caddys are pretty easy to find. Ebay would be a >good bet. > The RRD40 uses an early Phillips drive. The caddies are different to those used by everyone else. There's a bad picture of them here: http://www.montagar.com/~patj/vaxstation3100-48.htm Judging by how awkward it is to change the CD in one I think the original idea was to have a caddy for each CD you intend to use. I may still have one around here somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to start looking for it at the moment. >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of James W. Brinkerhoff >Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:05 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: DEC RRD40S Drive... Caddy? > > >Available device DKB100: device type RRD40S > >I have one of these in my VAXserver 3100... It appears to take a caddy? >Is this the type of thing I could hope to find on ebay? > >-jwb From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Mar 30 00:28:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: Ron Hudson's message of "Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:21:25 -0800" References: <7392F1F9-626F-11D7-A11F-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <200303300620.h2U6KRMg081738@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Ron Hudson wrote: > Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? > > I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra > ethernet card, with the driver diskette. NCSA Telnet (which includes a DOS command-line FTP client) and the packet driver from your driver diskette? This works for me. > I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... If you want to be able to mount it as a network drive, you are probably looking for LAN Manager (as a client) or an MS-DOS NFS client (I know there were some commercial offerings, don't know about free). -Frank McConnell From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Mar 30 00:32:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > If they are not OT please let me know... > > > > Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? > > > > I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra > > ethernet card, with the driver diskette. > > > > > > (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant glasses ) > > > > > > I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... > > You'll need Microsoft LAN Manager. You can find it on an NT install CD, > or if you search Microsoft's website, or you can make it easy on yourself > and ask me to send you what you need. > > My voicemail system is networked with it, but I don't think I ever tried > to access it with Samba from a Linux box (I can access other MS Windows > machines from the voicemail server, but not the other way around). Lan mangler works OK with Samba. It even supports DHCP. Sometimes a pain to setup though... For Telnet and FTP, NCSA telnet will work but then if you want SMB at the same time (Samba/windows file/print sharing) you have to get fancy with using a packet driver and an NDIS shim... Peter Wallace > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Mar 30 01:16:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23E3BF7A-627F-11D7-B543-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 09:40 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> If they are not OT please let me know... >> >> Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? >> >> I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra >> ethernet card, with the driver diskette. >> >> >> (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant glasses ) >> >> >> I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... > > You'll need Microsoft LAN Manager. You can find it on an NT install > CD, > or if you search Microsoft's website, or you can make it easy on > yourself > and ask me to send you what you need. Thanks Sellam, Please send me what I need. :^) > > My voicemail system is networked with it, but I don't think I ever > tried > to access it with Samba from a Linux box (I can access other MS Windows > machines from the voicemail server, but not the other way around). > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Mar 30 01:19:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6C41D248-627F-11D7-B543-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 10:29 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: >> >>> If they are not OT please let me know... >>> >>> Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? >>> >>> I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra >>> ethernet card, with the driver diskette. >>> >>> >>> (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant glasses >>> ) >>> >>> >>> I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... >> >> You'll need Microsoft LAN Manager. You can find it on an NT install >> CD, >> or if you search Microsoft's website, or you can make it easy on >> yourself >> and ask me to send you what you need. >> >> My voicemail system is networked with it, but I don't think I ever >> tried >> to access it with Samba from a Linux box (I can access other MS >> Windows >> machines from the voicemail server, but not the other way around). > > > Lan mangler works OK with Samba. It even supports DHCP. Sometimes a > pain to > setup though... > > > For Telnet and FTP, NCSA telnet will work but then if you want SMB at > the same > time (Samba/windows file/print sharing) you have to get fancy with > using a > packet driver and an NDIS shim... Thanks, I don't need them both at the same time... Connection with Samba will be quite enough. > > > Peter Wallace > >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> Festival >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------- >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> http://www.vintage.org >> >> * Old computing resources for business and academia at >> www.VintageTech.com * From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Mar 30 01:37:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: <003701c2f67d$ded2d860$0400fea9@game> Message-ID: On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 09:33 PM, TeoZ wrote: > Hmm, try installing windows for workgroups and use the TCP/IP software > addon > from microsoft. This software allows dhcp network setup, and has FTP > built > in. Aak no has Windows for Workgroups.. only Win3.1, but I want this to be a DOS box I could always install Windows 95 if need be. I suppose I could install dual boot windows 95 and DOS-6.22 Ok... I **WILL** hate myself in the morning but it's almost midnight, I have an excuse I was too tired... yeah right. Mr Scott, Begin the Windows 98 install procedure... (aye captain) (Sellam - Thanks anyway - this should work and I can have multiple "dos" windows) > > DOS used a netbios interface for networks I think. Only network > software I > remember for dos was lantastic, novel, and the stuff that came with > doom > (IPX network) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Hudson" > To: "Classic Computers" > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:21 AM > Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? > > >> If they are not OT please let me know... >> >> Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? >> >> I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra >> ethernet card, with the driver diskette. >> >> >> (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant glasses ) >> >> >> I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... >> >> :^) >> >> Thanks. >> >> Ron. From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Mar 30 01:46:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <200303292128070678.8867BEC3@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <438BB23A-6283-11D7-B543-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 09:28 PM, Bruce Lane wrote: > Hi, gang, > > I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into separate > odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate (smaller) > EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite programmer > do this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting utility will > do the trick. > > Here's the problem; I've searched all over Google, and can't find > anything that'll work. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks much. > Is the file "readable" -ie text that may look like: 0000 00 11 22 33 44 55 66 77 0008 88 99 aa bb cc dd ee ff 000f 10 11 22 33 44 55 66 77 (only lined up because this is not a monospaced font) You could write somthing quick and dirty in perl/basic/python/c/other language of choice All the above probably available to a windows/dos machine. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior > to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Sun Mar 30 02:00:00 2003 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Service Manual wanted for DEC VT-125 terminal References: <952B9E24-6242-11D7-9336-000393903ABA@ekoan.com> Message-ID: <3E86A233.853FCD31@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Dan Veeneman wrote: > > "VT125 IC Error" > > Does anyone have a service manual or other troubleshooting > documents that might help me fix this error? I don't think I have the service manual, but here are the six types of errors indicated by the self-test error messages, from the User Guide. VT125 Offline VT100 text terminal is LOCAL. LOCAL was saved in SET-UP, or user permanent memory problem. Terminal can only process received graphics commands. VT125 BM Error Video bit map memory has one or more bad pixels. VT125 VG Error Vector generator could not draw sample shape. Graphics probably does not work, but terminal may communicate normally. VT125 IC Error Internal communications failed. VT125 cannot communicate with VT100. Terminal can only process received graphics. VT125 SC Error Auxiliary port failed data loopback test. Terminal cannot send data to printer. VT125 EC Error Computer port failed data loopback test. Terminal can only operate as text terminal in LOCAL. As this is a comms failure, I would check out the 24-pin and 16-pin cables that run from the graphics processor to the other boards. I think there are tight twists in both cables that may have cracked over time. - Paul From lowendpc at o2.co.uk Sun Mar 30 03:02:00 2003 From: lowendpc at o2.co.uk (lowendpc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Any UK list members? Message-ID: <3E86C03A@weg-server1.genie.syncordia.net> If anyone on here is from the UK, they might want to take a look at http://computerhardwareneeded.cjb.net and read this guys story From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Mar 30 08:38:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: <6C41D248-627F-11D7-B543-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <6C41D248-627F-11D7-B543-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3E8701F1.1050601@charter.net> I use Microsoft "Workgroup Companion". It was the netwoking components of WFWG 3.11 without all of the GUI stuff. you use all of the "net" comand line stuff to connect to SMB servers. I use the TCP/IP stack that MS distributed for WFWG and the WGC to get DOS machnies on a network all of the time. The WGC fits on a single 1.2 floppy. It used to show up in surplus store in Dallas for $1 all of the time. I haven't seen any recently, but I haven't been looking. Ron Hudson wrote: > On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 10:29 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > >> On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: >>> >>>> If they are not OT please let me know... >>>> >>>> Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? >>>> >>>> I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra >>>> ethernet card, with the driver diskette. >>>> >>>> >>>> (warning REALLY OT part starts here, please don OT resistant >>>> glasses ) >>>> >>>> >>>> I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... >>> >>> >>> You'll need Microsoft LAN Manager. You can find it on an NT >>> install CD, >>> or if you search Microsoft's website, or you can make it easy on >>> yourself >>> and ask me to send you what you need. >>> >>> My voicemail system is networked with it, but I don't think I ever >>> tried >>> to access it with Samba from a Linux box (I can access other MS >>> Windows >>> machines from the voicemail server, but not the other way around). >> >> >> >> Lan mangler works OK with Samba. It even supports DHCP. Sometimes a >> pain to >> setup though... >> >> >> For Telnet and FTP, NCSA telnet will work but then if you want SMB >> at the same >> time (Samba/windows file/print sharing) you have to get fancy with >> using a >> packet driver and an NDIS shim... > > > Thanks, I don't need them both at the same time... Connection with > Samba will be quite enough. > > > >> >> >> Peter Wallace >> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -------- >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> * Old computing resources for business and academia at >>> www.VintageTech.com * >> > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 08:52:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility Message-ID: I would guess that there is a way to do this all with the Unisite software since that is a pretty standard operation with any programmer. But for a different way to do it, how about WinHex ? http://www.sf-soft.de/winhex/index-m.html The feature list includes: Binary, Hex ASCII, Intel Hex, and Motorola S conversion z. B. for (E)PROM programmers. Edit | Convert Unifying and dividing odd and even bytes/words for (E)PROM programmers. File Manager | Unify/Dissect > I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into separate >odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate (smaller) >EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite programmer do >this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting utility will do the >trick. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Mar 30 09:04:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility References: <200303292128070678.8867BEC3@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3E8706BE.33A61FDC@compsys.to> >Bruce Lane wrote: > Hi, gang, > I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into separate odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate (smaller) EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite programmer do this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting utility will do the trick. > Here's the problem; I've searched all over Google, and can't find anything that'll work. > Any ideas? > Thanks much. Jerome Fine replies: If you are desperate enough, I can easily write something to run under RT-11. In MACRO-11, that would be dead easy. In C, it should be just as easy and with FORTRAN - just open the file and copy the bytes into two output files. But then, unless you have not written any programs lately, I would think it would be just as easy under any operating system. However, I have chosen to stay away from writing software except under RT-11. There is too much I want to do there and never seem to get the time - well, no one else seems to be interested in any case. So I don't have any compilers available except under RT-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Mar 30 09:27:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: "Bruce Lane"'s message of "Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:28:07 -0800" References: <200303292128070678.8867BEC3@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <200303301519.h2UFJ1mu010005@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Bruce Lane" wrote: > I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into > separate odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate > (smaller) EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite > programmer do this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting > utility will do the trick. Under Un*x, srec_cat from SRecord can be used for this purpose. It looks like it can be built for Win32 using gcc under Cygwin too. -Frank McConnell From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Mar 30 09:49:01 2003 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: PDP8/L power supply schematic wanted... Message-ID: <200303301753.16026.jos.mar@bluewin.ch> I am looking for the 8/L power supply schematic in order to repair my machine. The immidiate culprit is clear ( burned out transformator ), but the schematics would give enough information to rewire the transformator. All online pages do not give anything beyond a very small section on the regulated output voltages. Jos Dreesen From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Mar 30 09:52:00 2003 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: Pinout info wanted for Ghielmetti FER-201 papertape reader.... Message-ID: <200303301756.30360.jos.mar@bluewin.ch> Subject says it all. Ghielmetti is still in business, but rather unresponsive to my questions... Jos Dreesen From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Mar 30 10:09:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: FS: S/390 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm probably incapable of getting it, but just for kicks, what's the size, and how much do you want for it? Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > Hi people. I'm looking at selling one of my S/390 G1's. It comes > complete with storage, DASD, and maybe a peripheral or two. It has > software on it, but you are responsible for licensing issues. Anyone > interested? > > Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Mar 30 10:20:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:40 2005 Subject: FS: S/390 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oops, that was supposed to be private. Sorry, folks. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'm probably incapable of getting it, but just for kicks, what's the size, > and how much do you want for it? > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > Hi people. I'm looking at selling one of my S/390 G1's. It comes > > complete with storage, DASD, and maybe a peripheral or two. It has > > software on it, but you are responsible for licensing issues. Anyone > > interested? > > > > Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Mar 30 10:42:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <20030328215434.60337.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > RLV12 - custom cable, but not the same part number as the RL8A cable. Does this mean it's not a straight-through cable? I've got a straight-thru cable going from my RLV12 to the RL02, but never got it to work... I don't have the transition cable/connector or external DEC cable for the RL02 (but, yes, I do have a terminator). Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Mar 30 11:46:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: <3E8701F1.1050601@charter.net> Message-ID: <1F925A46-62D7-11D7-AD4D-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> .... or " use it or loose it " On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 06:40 AM, James Rice wrote: > I use Microsoft "Workgroup Companion". It was the netwoking > components of WFWG 3.11 without all of the GUI stuff. you use all of > the "net" comand line stuff to connect to SMB servers. I use the > TCP/IP stack that MS distributed for WFWG and the WGC to get DOS > machnies on a network all of the time. The WGC fits on a single 1.2 > floppy. It used to show up in surplus store in Dallas for $1 all of > the time. I haven't seen any recently, but I haven't been looking. > > Thanks James, I installed W95 last night and I am currently struggling with that network setup. To think only 2 years ago I was a network administrator in a network with 400 windows and mac machines and This is giving me any trouble at all.... :^P Ron From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 30 11:56:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40S Drive... Caddy? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030330174729.01099220@mail.optushome.com.au> from "Dr. Ido" at Mar 30, 3 05:47:29 pm Message-ID: > The RRD40 uses an early Phillips drive. The caddies are different to those > used by everyone else. There's a bad picture of them here: > > http://www.montagar.com/~patj/vaxstation3100-48.htm > > Judging by how awkward it is to change the CD in one I think the original > idea was to have a caddy for each CD you intend to use. I may still have I am pretty sure I read somewhere that that _was_ the intention. The idea was to prevent damage to the disks. > one around here somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to start looking for > it at the moment. I have one, and I know where it is, but no way will you part me from it. I have an early Philips CD-ROM drive that needs it... -tony From menadeau at attbi.com Sun Mar 30 12:15:01 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Help sought on early IBM hard drive R&D Message-ID: <006701c2f6e7$2236f320$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Can anyone answer her question? She is particularly interested in the years 1957-1962 when Building 014 was being built and then opened. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:29 PM Subject: Question > I found the Classic Tech Publication website with many interesting > articles. I am preparing a historical and architectural evaluation of > the Advanced Research Building 025 on the IBM Cottle Road Campus as > part of an EIR for the site. The majority of the campus was included in > the sale of the IBM Hard Disk Drive Unit to Hitachi, however this > building was excluded. It is proposed for demolition and the site to be > redeveloped. The building has architectural significance as one of the > finest examples of the Modern Industrial style (1940-1985) in San Jose. > The question that has not been adequately answered is what research or > prototype occurred in this building. It is suggested that the flying > head research was done in this building. The building was designed for > Reynold Johnson's design team which moved from 99 Almaden in San Jose. > Can you direct me to information that would identify the research > conducted in this building? > Thank you for any assistance you can provide. > Bonnie Bamburg > Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 30 12:21:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030330181854.33942.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > RLV12 - custom cable, but not the same part number as the RL8A cable. > > Does this mean it's not a straight-through cable? I don't know. In this particular thread what I mean by "custom cable" is that one end of a 1/2" diameter cable with many twisted pairs has an RL01/RL02 end, the other has a 40-pin Berg connector with no obviously visible pattern to it. The RL11 and RLV11 use a flat ribbon cable and a transition bracket. It's obvious from simple inspection which pins go where. The RL8A and RLV12 cables that I have seen have different part numbers. I would quote chapter and verse, but I do not know which box mine are in to lay hands on them. :-( > I've got a straight-thru cable going from my RLV12 to the RL02, but > never got it to work... I don't have the transition cable/connector or > external DEC cable for the RL02 (but, yes, I do have a terminator). Hmm... I have never seen anyone do that, but in theory, if you have the signals lined up, it should work. Do you have the docs for the RLV12 and the RL02 to verify what signals go where? There's a *possibility* you have a simple mirror-image problem. I have seen that sort of thing crop up with flat cables and odd arrangements before - think of the issues with DEC SDI drives and cables - odd numbers of cables between the drive and controller don't work - you need those transition brackets and a pair of cables in-between to flip and reflip the signals around. DEC stuff is designed not to smoke (in 99.995% of cases) when you plug something in backwards. It shouldn't take verifying more than a handful of signals to establish if your current cabling does the right thing or not. -ethan From eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com Sun Mar 30 12:30:01 2003 From: eric-nospam-638 at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <200303292128070678.8867BEC3@192.168.42.129> References: <200303292128070678.8867BEC3@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <32898.64.169.63.74.1049048887.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into separate > odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate (smaller) > EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite programmer > do this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting utility will > do the trick. > > Here's the problem; I've searched all over Google, and can't find > anything that'll work. SRecord by Peter Miller does that and a lot more. Originally written for Unix, but there are prebuilt binaries for Windows NT. I'd be somewhat surprised if they don't also run on Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP. http://srecord.sourceforge.net/ From paul.shubel at verizon.net Sun Mar 30 13:02:01 2003 From: paul.shubel at verizon.net (Paul Shubel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #442 - 3 msgs References: <20030330180001.28519.69494.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000a01c2f6ee$be3b4580$0300a8c0@MSHOME> > Hi, gang, > > I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into separate odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate (smaller) EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite programmer do this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting utility will do the trick. > > Here's the problem; I've searched all over Google, and can't find anything that'll work. I searched with "split+srecord" and I found this site right off. http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/softeng/Aegis/srecord.html Sometimes luck helps. Cheers, Paul From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 30 14:20:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <32898.64.169.63.74.1049048887.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > I've got a single EPROM file that I need to split into separate > odd-byte/even-byte files for programming into two separate (smaller) > EPROMs. I'm not able to figure out how to make the Unisite programmer > do this, so I'm thinking a DOS or Windoze based splitting utility will > do the trick. > Here's the problem; I've searched all over Google, and can't find > anything that'll work. This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming language? It would be an excellent exercise for learning some programming. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 30 15:15:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 30, 3 12:17:46 pm Message-ID: > This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming language? \begin{ciarcia_mode} SOLDER!! \end{ciarcia_mode} :-) > > It would be an excellent exercise for learning some programming. > Agreed. I've had to write many 1-off utilites for scrambling data to get it into EPROMs over the years (when the address/data lines to the EPROM on the target board aren't in the normal sequence, or when I need to split/combine bytes to/from words, etc). It shouldn't take more than an evening to do the entire job, and I don't claim to be a programmer. -tony From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Mar 30 15:34:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: 486 DOS machines OT yet? Networking on Same? In-Reply-To: <200303300620.h2U6KRMg081738@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <7392F1F9-626F-11D7-A11F-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <200303300620.h2U6KRMg081738@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <1049060107.1049.10.camel@azure> On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 00:20, Frank McConnell wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > > Anybody know how to network DOS 6.22? > > > > I need a telnet and an FTP. I have an SMC Elite 16C Ultra > > ethernet card, with the driver diskette. > > NCSA Telnet (which includes a DOS command-line FTP client) and the > packet driver from your driver diskette? This works for me. The following links will point ya to all sorts for dos networking tools. http://www.fdisk.com/doslynx/ http://www.oldskool.org/~tvdog/internet.html http://sshdos.sourceforge.net/ http://www.eznos.org/index.html http://www.ncf.ca/~ag221/resource.html > > I want it to talk to my Samba equiped Linux Server... > > If you want to be able to mount it as a network drive, you are > probably looking for LAN Manager (as a client) or an MS-DOS NFS client > (I know there were some commercial offerings, don't know about free). There was a shareware DOS & Packet Driver NFS client called XFS that was shareware on the SIMTEL archive. I've never used it so don't know if it works well with modern NFS implementations. I've used MS-CLIENT 3.0 to talk to samba & windows 95 windows file sharing servers and it appears to work quite well. I've used the telnet & ftp clients in WFW TCP add-on with it and it work for me several years ago. > > -Frank McConnell From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 30 15:54:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Hacking an RS-170 tap into a B&W TV set? Message-ID: <20030330215135.49110.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Tony (and others ;-), How does one go about looking for the right place to install an NTSC video input jack into a B&W TV without schematics? I have the "Cheap Video Cookbook" which describes the technique, but I'm trying to do this to a $20 K-Mart 4" B&W TV set (Spectra Model 52-BWR). Among other appeals, it's battery/auto/AC powered and should work great with, say, an 1802 with an 1861 (Elf, VIP, et al). Good portable demo set for low-res graphics. If it helps, the largest IC appears to be marked as follows... CD5151CP EP3 II DE028 Thanks. -ethan From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 30 16:13:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Hacking an RS-170 tap into a B&W TV set? In-Reply-To: <20030330215135.49110.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030330215135.49110.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Given nothing but the set; no doc of any kind (have you Googled for a Sams Photofact of it?) I would get the number of the CRT, find the control grid pin, and trace that wire from the socket back to the board. That will get you in the neighborhood of the video amps - then some simple signal injection [even a metal needle using 'hum' injection from your body capacitace] might show up some traces where demodulated video lives. You can then experiment with the proper place , right coupling capacitor, polarity, etc., to apply the computer video. If you have a scope, this can also be done by inspection, rather than injection. The usual Cautionary Parables about working on naked TVs apply. zzzzap! Cheers John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 30 16:28:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility References: Message-ID: <3E876E28.8010805@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming language? > \begin{ciarcia_mode} > SOLDER!! > \end{ciarcia_mode} Dito. :) On a real machine a good assembler is nice. I don't consider the PC a real machine. I think CPU development went down hill after they forgot about Machine Langauge programing. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 30 17:13:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Hacking an RS-170 tap into a B&W TV set? In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Mar 30, 3 05:10:47 pm Message-ID: > Given nothing but the set; no doc of any kind (have you Googled for a I assume there's no schematic stuck inside the set (stranger things have happened...) > Sams Photofact of it?) I would get the number of the CRT, find the > control grid pin, and trace that wire from the socket back to the board. Be careful. In many TVs sold in the UK (and I guess elsewhere -- I am not only talking about sets designed in the UK), the control grid is used for the brightness control only, and the video signal is applied to the cathode. Most small TVs, particularly those designed to run off a 12V car battery, use a 7 pin CRT. The pinout is almost standardised at : 1 g1 (control grid) 2 cathode 3 heater 4 heater 5 control grid (linked to 1) 6 first anode ('screen control') 7 focus (second) anode > That will get you in the neighborhood of the video amps - then some simple If you're lucky, the video output stage will be discrete components and easy to hack. If you're unlucky it'll be hidden inside a 'jungle' IC... You also need to get the sync signals in somehow. If you're lucky (again!), you will find a point at the input of the video amplifier that also feeds the sync separator -- which means you can feed in composite video with no problems. After all, the signal at the output of the video detector stage _is_ composite video, so the set must be capable of displaying such a signal. The problem comes when this point only exists within an IC. > The usual Cautionary Parables about working on naked TVs apply. zzzzap! Be very careful if you work on mains-only sets. Many of these had a live chassis (connected to one side of the power line) with no transformer isolation. Connecting one of those to your classic computer can apply mains voltage to places where you don't want it, and give you a nasty (and possibly fatal) shock, or worse still do serious damage to said classic computer. This is unlikely to apply to a set that runs off batteries too (in 99% of the cases, the mains is stepped down to 12V using a conventional transformer/retifier circuit), but it can't hurt to check. If in doubt, run the set off an isolated 12V supply connected to the battery terminals, rather than using the internal mains PSU of the set. -tony From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 30 17:30:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Hacking an RS-170 tap into a B&W TV set? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030330232733.71689.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Given nothing but the set; no doc of any kind (have you Googled for a > > I assume there's no schematic stuck inside the set (stranger things have > happened...) Nope. I'd be nice, though. > If you're lucky, the video output stage will be discrete components and > easy to hack. If you're unlucky it'll be hidden inside a 'jungle' IC... > > You also need to get the sync signals in somehow. If you're lucky > (again!), you will find a point at the input of the video amplifier that > also feeds the sync separator -- which means you can feed in composite > video with no problems. After all, the signal at the output of the video > detector stage _is_ composite video, so the set must be capable of > displaying such a signal. The problem comes when this point only exists > within an IC. If it helps, the tuner is on a seperate board with a 4-wire cable to the main board. There are a couple of tunable elements (cap, coil), a few caps, diodes and a single IC - CD2003GP > > The usual Cautionary Parables about working on naked TVs apply. > zzzzap! Naturally. > Be very careful if you work on mains-only sets... This one is internal batteries or 12V car plug or a 12VDC wall wart. Of course, the internal voltages are still typical for CRT use, but no hot-chassis here. -ethan From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Mar 30 18:11:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: dbit E11 and rtv53_rl.dsk In-Reply-To: <3E79093A.6DD85EFA@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Since both SIMH and Ersatz-11 work under W95/W98, I can't > see why SIMH will not work under DOS will not handle SIMH > as well as E11. SimH will NOT run under DOS as it is right now, because of memory (and -model) constraints. Under Win9x and up, it uses Win32 mode. FAQ: Does SimH run under DOS? No. SimH assumes various things about the system it is running on, and one of those assumptions the ability to allocate memory in large chunks, which is very hard to do under DOS without extra work. Various other issues exist as well. One day, it can be done, but not now. --fred From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 30 18:33:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: The Gospel according to ARD: Message-ID: Tony Duell provides us with an exemplary indicator of the true collector: > >and give you a nasty (and possibly fatal) shock, or worse still do ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >serious damage to said classic computer. > Collectors are many; vintage computers, few! ;} Cheers John One-Hand-In-Back-Pocket-At-All-Times Lawson From jwb at paravolve.net Sun Mar 30 20:44:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS Message-ID: <20030330213635.4c22fe46.jwb@paravolve.net> I have a VAX running VMS 7.1 that is looking for a volume thats not actually in existence anymore. It does this during startup and doesn't give up... Being a VMS newbie and all, how would I tell the system to ignore this and continue /w the boot? for example.... %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 30-MAR-2003 21:28:59.95 %%%%%%%%%%% Request 1, from user SYSTEM on ODIF01 Please mount volume USER2 in device _$1$DKB100: (ODIF01) -jwb -- ## James W. Brinkerhoff ## ## GPG Key Sig: EBF1 6C24 0814 A3E9 6E93 649C 1F25 D807 E484 C9B9 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 30 21:16:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS In-Reply-To: <20030330213635.4c22fe46.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: >I have a VAX running VMS 7.1 that is looking for a volume thats not >actually in existence anymore. It does this during startup and doesn't >give up... Being a VMS newbie and all, how would I tell the system to >ignore this and continue /w the boot? > >for example.... > >%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 30-MAR-2003 21:28:59.95 %%%%%%%%%%% >Request 1, from user SYSTEM on ODIF01 >Please mount volume USER2 in device _$1$DKB100: (ODIF01) Try the following to figure out what startup file is trying to mount the disk: $ SEARCH *.COM USER2 I'm guessing it's located in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, you can simply edit the file by doing a: $ EDIT SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and either remove the line totally or comment it out by putting a '!' after the '$' on that line. When done with your edit do a CTRL-Z to save and exit (assuming you're using the default editor)., Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Mar 30 21:27:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I have a VAX running VMS 7.1 that is looking for a volume thats not > >actually in existence anymore. It does this during startup and doesn't > >give up... Being a VMS newbie and all, how would I tell the system to > >ignore this and continue /w the boot? > > > >for example.... > > > >%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 30-MAR-2003 21:28:59.95 %%%%%%%%%%% > >Request 1, from user SYSTEM on ODIF01 > >Please mount volume USER2 in device _$1$DKB100: (ODIF01) > > Try the following to figure out what startup file is trying to mount the disk: > > $ SEARCH *.COM USER2 > > I'm guessing it's located in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, you can simply edit the > file by doing a: > > $ EDIT SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and either remove the line totally or comment it > out by putting a '!' after the '$' on that line. When done with your edit > do a CTRL-Z to save and exit (assuming you're using the default editor)., I don't think he's going to be able to edit the file if he can't get the machine to boot up because it's waiting for the op to mount the volume. I'm guessing he needs to know how to get the machine to boot without executing the script that's trying to mount that. My suggestion would be to search google for how to recover a lost root password in VMS, that'll probably point you in the direction you need to look to get a DCL prompt without executing startup scripts. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jwb at paravolve.net Sun Mar 30 21:37:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030330222912.56ac9799.jwb@paravolve.net> On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:30:48 -0500 (EST) Patrick Finnegan wrote: # > Try the following to figure out what startup file is trying to mount the disk: # > # > $ SEARCH *.COM USER2 # > # > I'm guessing it's located in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, you can simply edit the # > file by doing a: # > # > $ EDIT SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and either remove the line totally or comment it # > out by putting a '!' after the '$' on that line. When done with your edit # > do a CTRL-Z to save and exit (assuming you're using the default editor)., # # I don't think he's going to be able to edit the file if he can't get the # machine to boot up because it's waiting for the op to mount the volume. # I'm guessing he needs to know how to get the machine to boot without # executing the script that's trying to mount that. # # My suggestion would be to search google for how to recover a lost root # password in VMS, that'll probably point you in the direction you need to # look to get a DCL prompt without executing startup scripts. Doh! I actually performed that procedure when I first got my hands on the VAX a while back. The memory is not what it used to be ;) thanks -jwb -- ## James W. Brinkerhoff ## ## GPG Key Sig: EBF1 6C24 0814 A3E9 6E93 649C 1F25 D807 E484 C9B9 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Mar 30 21:51:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: 8080 disassembler Message-ID: <000001c2f738$7a65b3f0$947ba8c0@piii933> Does anyone have a good DOS or Windows based 8080 disassembler that they would recommend? I tried Googling but what I found wasn't up to the task. I've got a hex dump of a boot PROM that I want to take a look at. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 30 21:55:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS In-Reply-To: <20030330222912.56ac9799.jwb@paravolve.net> References: Message-ID: ># I don't think he's going to be able to edit the file if he can't get the ># machine to boot up because it's waiting for the op to mount the volume. ># I'm guessing he needs to know how to get the machine to boot without ># executing the script that's trying to mount that. ># ># My suggestion would be to search google for how to recover a lost root ># password in VMS, that'll probably point you in the direction you need to ># look to get a DCL prompt without executing startup scripts. > >Doh! I actually performed that procedure when I first got my hands on >the VAX a while back. The memory is not what it used to be ;) Yours isn't the only one! For some reason I didn't think about the fact you'd not be able to get to a prompt. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From glenslick at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 22:51:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: 8080 disassembler Message-ID: What features do you want or need in an 8080 disassebler that you haven't been able to find? I recently went looking for 8085 disassemblers for the monitor ROM in an HP 5036A microprocessor trainer. I didn't like much of what I found either and I ended up just writing my own. It really wasn't that difficult and had the benefit of being able to exactly control the listing format as I wanted. >Does anyone have a good DOS or Windows based 8080 disassembler that they >would recommend? I tried Googling but what I found wasn't up to the >task. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk Mon Mar 31 04:05:01 2003 From: Paul.Hills at siemens.co.uk (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: What is this? eBay #3409766995 Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD39015EF384@OHM1003A> Yes, definitely an MST-80. There's a (very basic) page dedicated to this machine here: http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.livermore.html, you can see from that picture that it is the same type of board (although the keypad is a different colour). The web page says the processor is an RCA 1802, others have mentioned an 8080. paul -----Original Message----- From: Robert Borsuk [mailto:rborsuk@colourfull.com] Sent: 28 March 2003 18:02 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What is this? eBay #3409766995 Is it an MST-80b? On Friday, March 28, 2003, at 12:32 PM, acme@ao.net wrote: > Described as "One of the first portable computers ever made," hex > keypad, > the word "Eclipse" on side of unit, fits in a briefcase, seller claims > it > was made for Lawrence Livermore Labs. > > Any ideas? > > Glen > 0/0 > > Robert Borsuk - rborsuk@colourfull.com President Colourfull Creations http://www.colourfull.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 31 09:51:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Anyone looking for DH-11 parts? Message-ID: <20030331154819.774.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Looks like most of a DH-11 board set plus one or two other things. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3410022172&category=1247 No affiliation with the seller (except as a one-time customer with the goods currently in transit). -ethan From mr at jasongullickson.com Mon Mar 31 10:19:00 2003 From: mr at jasongullickson.com (Jason J. Gullickson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF58C@webmail.inacom-msn.com> Hey guys, thanks for all the info. I would prefer to go the software route (I'd prefer to run CPM and find a C compiler...) but I'm having a hell of a time tracking down disks for this thing so in the meantime I'm looking for a hardware hack to make it useful (or at least make it do something to freak out my fellow employees as my syslogs scroll across the screen of this beast), so the hardware solution is what I was looking for (I could have been more specific). On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, yeah. Thanks again! -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:02 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: H89 as serial terminal > >much easier than any of the above... get a copy of MDM712 or similar > >terminal emulation program. MDM712 comes with a serial port driver > >for > > Hi > Why would you assume that finding and installing some software would > be easier than making up a simple molex adapter connector. As I > recall, it was a 9 pin molex but I could be wrong. That is all of 9 > wires to deal with. Dwight > Dwight, you're absolutly right, the software is not always "easy" to find and get. Actually, check that... it's really easy to find and get (Google), it's just not as easy to get onto a Heath-format floppy so you can use it. On the other hand, I think the software approach has its merits, especially over the long haul. Using a terminal emulator is a more permanent solution (IMHO) than cracking the case and swapping connectors around to reconfigure the device as a terminal or computer. And, the terminal logic board communicates with the CPU board at 9600 baud, so if you want a different rate for the device you are talking to, the board has to be pulled and jumpers/switches changed, and then pulled and changed back if you want to use it as a computer again. The three-port serial card has software configurable baud rates. The hardware approach will also not make it emulate VT-100, which is part of what Jason had asked. And since many of these programs can X/Y/Zmodem, getting other stuff onto the machine from there forward gets a lot simpler. While you, I, and others may feel quite comfortable mucking around with the innards of the beast, perhaps (and I don't know one way or another for sure) Jason or anyone else who might later read this thread in archives or digests may be less comfortable or is just working up to it, and so other alternatives are worth mentioning (IMHO). Tony's hardware solution is good, but rerouting even one of those cables may require removal of the CPU and terminal logic boards, since the interconnect and serial cables are typically routed around the bottom edge of the two boards and fairly tight once home. If you're going to go back and forth between terminal and computer, maybe that's a bit much in the long run. Add to this that the expansion boards and some of the other connectors attached the CPU board are all unkeyed and thus notoriously easy to (re)install one pin off their mating connectors, and this little accident can cause the kind of rapid deep frying on the CPU board that will turn a wonderful H89 into a dumb terminal permanently. I'm into risk management and choices. That's all. I certainly didn't intend any offense with my comment. But since we're into options... to elaborate on your and Tony's path, the terminal logic board's serial port is easily accessed from the rear of the machine--remove the lid, and as you face the back of the machine, it's on your left (you can sometimes read "P404" next to it). If a cable is the solution of choice, then Molex directly to a DB-9 or DB-25 (whatever the device to be connected requires) is the way to go, IMHO. That way, you can just open the case, pull the interconnect, connect in its place this new cable to the target device, and do your thing. Reverse to undo, lather-rinse-repeat as needed. That won't get you VT-100, software transfer, or other baud rates, but it is quick and dirty. To that end, P404 on the terminal logic board is a 15-pin connector with 10 pins connected. For those interested, the pinouts are (from schematic w/no revision number evident, identified Heath p/n 595-2268/595-2272): 1 - (black) ground 2 - no connection 3 - (brown) TxD 4 - n/c 5 - (red) RxD 6 - n/c 7 - (orange) RTS 8 - n/c 9 - (yellow) CTS 10 - n/c 11 - (green) DSR 12 - n/c 13 - (blue) ground 14 - (violet) DTR 15 - (grey) "RLSD/" (whazzat? anybody?) The black wire (pin 1) is up in this vertical connector. Patrick From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Mar 31 11:15:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Ignoring Mount requests on startup in OpenVMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c2f7a8$c0330250$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Yours isn't the only one! For some reason I didn't think > about the fact you'd not be able to get to a prompt. The OpenVMS FAQ lives at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html The slightly quicker way than the one they recommend is: >>> B/1 SYSGEN> SET UAFALTERNATE 0 SYSGEN> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" SYSGEN> SET WRITES 0 SYSGEN> CONTINUE ... wait for boot to complete ... log in on console as SYSTEM with any passwords ... edit as required ... reboot to check In the future, replacing MOUNT with MOUNT/NOASSIST should get around the problem in case any other disks mysteriously vanish (unless the boot disk goes south, of course). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 31 11:56:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal Message-ID: <200303311753.JAA21877@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I have a stand alone Forth ( FIG ) that I did years ago when I first got my H89. It runs on the hard sectored disk. I don't have any C for this machine but I do also have the BASIC in HDOS. On the hardware methods, one could run both connectors, from the terminal and CPU board to the back and make a short external jumper cable to change it back to a computer. This would allow one to use it either way. The only thing one might want to open the cover for is to set the baud rates for correct use as the computer or terminal. Dwight >From: "Jason J. Gullickson" > >Hey guys, thanks for all the info. > >I would prefer to go the software route (I'd prefer to run CPM and find >a C compiler...) but I'm having a hell of a time tracking down disks for >this thing so in the meantime I'm looking for a hardware hack to make it >useful (or at least make it do something to freak out my fellow >employees as my syslogs scroll across the screen of this beast), so the >hardware solution is what I was looking for (I could have been more >specific). > >On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a >compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, >yeah. > >Thanks again! > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney >Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:02 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: H89 as serial terminal > > >> >much easier than any of the above... get a copy of MDM712 or similar >> >terminal emulation program. MDM712 comes with a serial port driver >> >for >> >> Hi >> Why would you assume that finding and installing some software would >> be easier than making up a simple molex adapter connector. As I >> recall, it was a 9 pin molex but I could be wrong. That is all of 9 >> wires to deal with. Dwight >> > >Dwight, you're absolutly right, the software is not always "easy" to >find and get. Actually, check that... it's really easy to find and get >(Google), it's just not as easy to get onto a Heath-format floppy so you >can use it. > >On the other hand, I think the software approach has its merits, >especially over the long haul. Using a terminal emulator is a more >permanent solution >(IMHO) than cracking the case and swapping connectors around to >reconfigure the device as a terminal or computer. And, the terminal >logic board communicates with the CPU board at 9600 baud, so if you want >a different rate for the device you are talking to, the board has to be >pulled and jumpers/switches changed, and then pulled and changed back if >you want to use it as a computer again. The three-port serial card has >software configurable baud rates. The hardware approach will also not >make it emulate VT-100, which is part of what Jason had asked. And >since many of these programs can X/Y/Zmodem, getting other stuff onto >the machine from there forward gets a lot simpler. > >While you, I, and others may feel quite comfortable mucking around with >the innards of the beast, perhaps (and I don't know one way or another >for sure) Jason or anyone else who might later read this thread in >archives or digests may be less comfortable or is just working up to it, >and so other alternatives are worth mentioning (IMHO). Tony's hardware >solution is good, but rerouting even one of those cables may require >removal of the CPU and terminal logic boards, since the interconnect and >serial cables are typically routed around the bottom edge of the two >boards and fairly tight once home. If you're going to go back and forth >between terminal and computer, maybe that's a bit much in the long run. >Add to this that the expansion boards and some of the other connectors >attached the CPU board are all unkeyed and thus notoriously easy to >(re)install one pin off their mating connectors, and this little >accident can cause the kind of rapid deep frying on the CPU board that >will turn a wonderful H89 into a dumb terminal permanently. > >I'm into risk management and choices. That's all. I certainly didn't >intend any offense with my comment. > >But since we're into options... to elaborate on your and Tony's path, >the terminal logic board's serial port is easily accessed from the rear >of the machine--remove the lid, and as you face the back of the machine, >it's on your left (you can sometimes read "P404" next to it). If a >cable is the solution of choice, then Molex directly to a DB-9 or DB-25 >(whatever the device to be connected requires) is the way to go, IMHO. >That way, you can just open the case, pull the interconnect, connect in >its place this new cable to the target device, and do your thing. >Reverse to undo, lather-rinse-repeat as needed. That won't get you >VT-100, software transfer, or other baud rates, but it is quick and >dirty. > >To that end, P404 on the terminal logic board is a 15-pin connector with >10 pins connected. For those interested, the pinouts are (from >schematic w/no revision number evident, identified Heath p/n >595-2268/595-2272): > >1 - (black) ground >2 - no connection >3 - (brown) TxD >4 - n/c >5 - (red) RxD >6 - n/c >7 - (orange) RTS >8 - n/c >9 - (yellow) CTS >10 - n/c >11 - (green) DSR >12 - n/c >13 - (blue) ground >14 - (violet) DTR >15 - (grey) "RLSD/" (whazzat? anybody?) > >The black wire (pin 1) is up in this vertical connector. > >Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 31 12:38:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Looking for Arche Technologies Computer, iRiS anti-virus software ($$$) Message-ID: I have a new bounty. I'm looking for two things which are somewhat related. First, an Arche Technologies PC-compatible system. This was a typical 286 clone from the 1987-1989 timeframe. Second, iRiS antivirus software. This may have also went under the names of "Virus-Free", "Antivirus" and "Antivirus Plus" (sometimes in combination with the company name "IRIS"). The software was distributed by Iris and the software apparently written by Computers of Israel. The iRiS software was included in the system software that came with the Arche computer. It is the software that I am really after but the computer also has some use. There is a bounty for these items. If you have them, contact me directly at and we can negotiate a fair price. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 31 13:02:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal References: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF58C@webmail.inacom-msn.com> Message-ID: <3E888F84.5020502@jetnet.ab.ca> Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > Hey guys, thanks for all the info. > > I would prefer to go the software route (I'd prefer to run CPM and find > a C compiler...) but I'm having a hell of a time tracking down disks for > this thing so in the meantime I'm looking for a hardware hack to make it > useful (or at least make it do something to freak out my fellow > employees as my syslogs scroll across the screen of this beast), so the > hardware solution is what I was looking for (I could have been more > specific). > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > yeah. > Just finding CP/M is hard. Check here for CP/M and Tiny C. http://www.cpm.z80.de/index.html Ben. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 31 13:12:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: <153D0FAADC2C90459D202D16D24A94AE015EF58C@webmail.inacom-msn.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > yeah. Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or from hard-sectored disks. There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is probably the best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 months ago, BDS C became public domain! : On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed it, > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc > > Check it out! > > Rich B. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 31 13:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: H89/H19 keycaps? Message-ID: <20030331191517.47244.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> With all the discussion of Heath terminals, I am reminded to ask if anyone has any keytops? My H-19 came to me with one key missing (and a piece of paper stuffed betweent the contacts!) It's one of the keys on the corner of the keyboard (probably got whacked by my former boss), not one of the letter keys, but at this point, I'd be happy to get *anything* to replace it, no matter what the legend. Does anyone have a dead H-19/H89 keyboard they could spare a keytop from? Write off-list if you do. Thanks, -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 31 17:31:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: Hacking an RS-170 tap into a B&W TV set? In-Reply-To: <20030330232733.71689.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 30, 3 03:27:33 pm Message-ID: > > You also need to get the sync signals in somehow. If you're lucky > > (again!), you will find a point at the input of the video amplifier that > > also feeds the sync separator -- which means you can feed in composite > > video with no problems. After all, the signal at the output of the video > > detector stage _is_ composite video, so the set must be capable of > > displaying such a signal. The problem comes when this point only exists > > within an IC. > > If it helps, the tuner is on a seperate board with a 4-wire cable to > the main board. There are a couple of tunable elements (cap, coil), The output of the tuner will be at the IF frequency (around 30MHz), and it is not the signal you're looking for. > a few caps, diodes and a single IC - CD2003GP What's on the main board? How many chips, and are there any discrete transistors? You really need to find the video detector stage -- the output side of this is an almost perfect place to feed in composite video. > This one is internal batteries or 12V car plug or a 12VDC wall wart. > > Of course, the internal voltages are still typical for CRT use, but > no hot-chassis here. OK, I think it's safe to assume this set doesn't have a live (hot) chassis. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 31 17:34:57 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: The Gospel according to ARD: In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Mar 30, 3 07:30:51 pm Message-ID: > Tony Duell provides us with an exemplary indicator of the true > collector: Since when have I been a collector, true or otherwise? It is not my aim to own one of every version of a particular machine, I don't care about original boxes, if I get shrink-wrapped manuals, I unwrap them (manuals are for reading!), very few (if any) of my machines are 'original'. All that surely means I am not a collector. > > > > > >and give you a nasty (and possibly fatal) shock, or worse still do > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >serious damage to said classic computer. > > > > Collectors are many; vintage computers, few! Of course... > > > ;} > > > Cheers > > John One-Hand-In-Back-Pocket-At-All-Times Lawson A _very_ good idea!. Never work on high voltage stuff with both hands -- you don't want the current to flow through your heart. And make sure there's somebody around who knows how to turn everything off if you _do_ accidentally connect yourself to the mains. -tony From ninajane at ccn.go-free.co.uk Mon Mar 31 19:17:11 2003 From: ninajane at ccn.go-free.co.uk (ninajane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: new computers... Finally! Message-ID: <000601c2f63b$219dfaa0$2e423c3e@pbncomputer> Hey (i dont know ur name) I have an Amiga 500+ with an A520 adaptor. When i tuned it to my T.V. it just stays dark blue, but says there's a signal. The animated hand thing doesn't even appear! Help! And I don't have the poster about the connections!!! From webmaster at khssoftware.de Mon Mar 31 19:22:17 2003 From: webmaster at khssoftware.de (Wolfgang Kainz-Huber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:41 2005 Subject: GenRad Future Data Message-ID: <137401c2f6b8$af952e00$0100a8c0@majestix> Hello, do you know what I have here ? I need technical infos like CPU, RAM, ROM and so on. I have one disk for this machine, but I can't read it. Therefore I need a short reference about the RDOS OS. A rare machine I think, because I can't find any information about the FutureData in the www. Sincerely, Wolfgang Kainz-Huber, Munich (Germany) www.computermuseum-muenchen.de [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of futuredata.jpg] From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Mon Mar 31 19:26:54 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Help sought on early IBM hard drive R&D In-Reply-To: <006701c2f6e7$2236f320$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <20030330193056.53703.qmail@web20803.mail.yahoo.com> Bonnie, Drop Mike Williams (Head Curator) or Dag Spicer (Exhibits Curator) at the Computer History Museum an email as they can probably direct you the appropriate person at IBM that can help you, or maybe even know the answer themselves. Lee Courtney --- Michael Nadeau wrote: > Can anyone answer her question? She is particularly > interested in the years > 1957-1962 when Building 014 was being built and then > opened. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:29 PM > Subject: Question > > > > I found the Classic Tech Publication website with > many interesting > > articles. I am preparing a historical and > architectural evaluation of > > the Advanced Research Building 025 on the IBM > Cottle Road Campus as > > part of an EIR for the site. The majority of the > campus was included in > > the sale of the IBM Hard Disk Drive Unit to > Hitachi, however this > > building was excluded. It is proposed for > demolition and the site to be > > redeveloped. The building has architectural > significance as one of the > > finest examples of the Modern Industrial style > (1940-1985) in San Jose. > > The question that has not been adequately answered > is what research or > > prototype occurred in this building. It is > suggested that the flying > > head research was done in this building. The > building was designed for > > Reynold Johnson's design team which moved from 99 > Almaden in San Jose. > > Can you direct me to information that would > identify the research > > conducted in this building? > > Thank you for any assistance you can provide. > > Bonnie Bamburg > > > Michael Nadeau > Editor/Publisher > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > www.classictechpub.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Mar 31 19:32:28 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: DF32x4 (was Re: 8/L repairs) In-Reply-To: <20030328213802.47398.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200304010122.TAA09244@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > >How are you handling the cabling issue? > > > > Cables :) > > :-) indeed. > > > (I also laid out a PCB to plug in the backplane and accept a > > standard 40 pin IDC header connector). Had five fabricated and > > made 3 foot ribbon cables. > > Sounds great. If several folks wanted to get into a bulk-buy, we > could probably get a stack of those cheap. I was getting 12" long > boards with inches of gold fingers (GG2 Bus+ - 100-pin Zorro plus > 16-bit ISA) for well under $20 each, q 100., with silk screen and > solder mask. Panelled out, something like this could be as cheap > as a few bucks each in sufficient quantity. > > No matter what the device (external memory, external disk, etc.), > I'd *love* to have a stack of inexpensive paddle cards to interconnect > a variety of devices I have. Another bonus is that the modern > end of the cable does *not* have to resort to hard-to-find DEC-style > slots and fingers. 40-pin IDC stuff is about as cheap as it gets. > > Also, it might be interesting to experiment with them as a base for > simple prototype modules (I keep kicking around an idea for a > crystal-controlled M452 replacement for higher-than-110-baud use > on an M706/M707 set) - just attach the "device" to the 40-pin > spot and go. > > I could probably put dozens of these to use in the first few months, > all by myself. I would probably even be willing to act as a point-of > contact on a group order. The more the merrier. > As long as they were desigend to be flexible, so that traces could be cut and jumper wires installed to make whatever type of cable connector you might need, such as Omnibus or unibus connectors, they would be very useful. I'd like to have a few myself, just to make a M993 cable, or maybe omnibus extender cables, etc. The company you were thinking of with the breadboards is Douglas Electronics. These are scans of information i recieved from them. http://www-users.itlabs.umn.edu/~lemay/computers/dec_breadboards.html -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From williams at computerhistory.org Mon Mar 31 19:36:50 2003 From: williams at computerhistory.org (Michael Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Help sought on early IBM hard drive R&D In-Reply-To: <20030330193056.53703.qmail@web20803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <006701c2f6e7$2236f320$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030330120951.01552d18@mail.computerhistory.org> Bonnie, I think you would be best to talk to a couple of the "old Timers" who worked in these buildings or who knew the major individuals very well. Two people immediately come to mind: Jim Porter - likely knows more about the disk drive business and how it developed than anyone else and Jack Harker - was involved in the early development of many things in SJ. Both live around here (Harker lives in Palo Alto and Porter is local). I don't have their contact information at the moment (it is sunday afternoon and the people that supply such info to me are out enjoying a lovely day) but if you don't have your own sources please let me know and I can supply some type of contact data later. Mike Williams At 11:30 AM 3/30/2003 -0800, lee courtney wrote: >Bonnie, > >Drop Mike Williams (Head Curator) or Dag Spicer >(Exhibits Curator) at the Computer History Museum an >email as they can probably direct you the appropriate >person at IBM that can help you, or maybe even know >the answer themselves. > >Lee Courtney > >--- Michael Nadeau wrote: > > Can anyone answer her question? She is particularly > > interested in the years > > 1957-1962 when Building 014 was being built and then > > opened. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:29 PM > > Subject: Question > > > > > > > I found the Classic Tech Publication website with > > many interesting > > > articles. I am preparing a historical and > > architectural evaluation of > > > the Advanced Research Building 025 on the IBM > > Cottle Road Campus as > > > part of an EIR for the site. The majority of the > > campus was included in > > > the sale of the IBM Hard Disk Drive Unit to > > Hitachi, however this > > > building was excluded. It is proposed for > > demolition and the site to be > > > redeveloped. The building has architectural > > significance as one of the > > > finest examples of the Modern Industrial style > > (1940-1985) in San Jose. > > > The question that has not been adequately answered > > is what research or > > > prototype occurred in this building. It is > > suggested that the flying > > > head research was done in this building. The > > building was designed for > > > Reynold Johnson's design team which moved from 99 > > Almaden in San Jose. > > > Can you direct me to information that would > > identify the research > > > conducted in this building? > > > Thank you for any assistance you can provide. > > > Bonnie Bamburg > > > > > Michael Nadeau > > Editor/Publisher > > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > > www.classictechpub.com -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Michael R. Williams Head Curator The Computer History Museum 1401 Shoreline Blvd. Mountain View, California 94043 U.S.A. williams@computerhistory.org (650) 810-1024 From dion at technologyexpress.com.au Mon Mar 31 19:38:52 2003 From: dion at technologyexpress.com.au (Technology Express) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: 25F8398 Message-ID: It comes from an IBM 3174 Controller. Regards, Dion Nowoweiski c/- Technology Express 39-45 Johnston Street Port Melbourne VIC 3207 Ph: (03) 9646-9933 Fax: (03) 9646-9922 Mob: 0412-450-950 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ********************************************************************** From wrb at wrbuckley.com Mon Mar 31 19:40:47 2003 From: wrb at wrbuckley.com (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <3E876E28.8010805@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <005001c2f731$8617cc80$992cfea9@softnerdhqpo000> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of ben franchuk > Sent: Sunday, 30 March, 2003 14:23 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Need byte-splitter utility > > > Tony Duell wrote: > >>This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming > language? > > > > \begin{ciarcia_mode} > > SOLDER!! > > \end{ciarcia_mode} > > Dito. :) > On a real machine a good assembler is nice. I don't consider the PC > a real machine. I think CPU development went down hill after > they forgot > about Machine Langauge programing. > The great John von Neumann would agree! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Mar 31 19:42:42 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <3E837023.2350BAA0@eagle.ca> Message-ID: Hi collecting folks, A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning - an IBM 5150 in not bad condition complete with keyboard/monitor and a 5161 expansion box, spare expansion card and 2 extender cables.....reading the classiccmp archives back to 1998 makes me think I should be impressed since the 5161 isn't that common? It all apparently works but I won't be able to set it up fully till tomorrow. Not much info about it on the web either, though because 5161 is obviously bits of a phone number there's a very high signal to noise ratio..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Mon Mar 31 19:44:40 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: hp-85A & 128K mem module question Message-ID: <200304010112.h311CisC012313@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know what command or process you would use on a HP-85A to verify > that the 128K Memory Module that plugs into the back of The HP is working. The Instruction sheet for the HP 82907A (32K), HP 82908A (64K) and HP 82909A (128K) Menory Modules states: "The HP 82907A, HP 82908A, and the HP 82909A Memory Modules cannot be used with the HP-83 and HP-85 Personal Computers." The note obviously refers to the HP-85A, since the HP-85B *can* utilize these modules as RAMDISCs. So you need either an HP-85B, an HP-86, or an HP-87 to use your 128Kb module. > I seem to remember that the 85A needs a ROM to use a 128K Memory Module. You may be thinking of the 00087-15012 Electronic Disk (EDISC) ROM which allows memory to be used as RAMDISC. This ROM is built into the HP-85B while it is optional for the HP-86/87. Sorry. **vp From finncr at msn.com Mon Mar 31 19:46:37 2003 From: finncr at msn.com (charles finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: I would like to buy a EPSON HX-40. Who can help. I also need a printer cable. Charlie From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Mar 31 19:49:01 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Looking for....RL02 controller for PDP-8E M8433? In-Reply-To: <20030328215434.60337.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200304010136.TAA09431@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > If you have an 8/E, I'm afraid an M8433 won't be any use to you, > > > > because it's an RL8A, which is a hex board, not a quad one. It's > > > > meant for a PDP-8/A. > > > > > > Uggg... so is there hope of any attainable mass storage for my 8E? > > > Ideas? > > > > There are no easy solutions. > > > > If you have a RL02, then you need a 8/a chassis, cables... interface... > > ...cable ... terminator. Odds are you don't have most of those parts. > > With several machines, *I* don't even have all of those parts (never had > any way to link up multiple backplanes) Well, I bought the cable that interconnects a quad omnibus with a hex omnibus. So someday when I get an empty 8/A chassis, and that cable that goes from the RL8A to the first drive, I can get a RL01 running. > > > If you have a 8/F or 8/M, it is possible to remove one of the case fans, > > and install the hex wide interface into the chassis. Then you just need > > the cable for the first drive and the drive terminator. > > Interesting suggestion. I don't have either an -8/F or -8/M and would > not have thought of that. I never would have thought of that either ;) It was mentioned in one of the old DEC 12-big SIG newsletters. > > Otherwise, You need a quad wide RK05 interface (definitely available, but > > probably expensive), > > Probably expensive, but not *commonly* available. Oh, i disagree. I see them listed in DEC resellers lists all the time. I usually dont want to pay their prices... For example, Omni Systems Associates lists both a RK8E and a RK8L, either of which would work (but, expensive). Continental Computers also lists the boards, but their lists arent always accurate and you have to ask for a quote. But, always mention you're a collector looking for parts as a hobby, and many of these resellers will give reasonable quotes instead of the 'gouge the big company' quotes. > > > the cable (usually not available, but possible to manufacture), > > I'm going to use the one from my RKV11D (since I don't really need > an RK05 on a Qbus PDP-11 full time). It's the same paddle and dual- > 40-pin cable set. Are you sure its a M993 ? > > > Plus you need special 16 sector DECpacks to use with the RK05. > > Most rare (unless you find a cache of them). I have many 12-sector > packs, collected over 20 years. I have *two* 16-sector packs (also > collected over 20 years). I bought 4 from Bruce Thompson. Also bought the quad-to-hex omnibus cable I mentioned previously from him. -Lawrence LeMay From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Mar 31 19:51:29 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: new computers... Finally! References: <000601c2f63b$219dfaa0$2e423c3e@pbncomputer> Message-ID: <007c01c2f7ef$974ac7a0$0400fea9@game> The ports are labeled. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/a520.html On the side there is audio in and video out On the end there is RF out. If your TV has RCA jacks for video input then connect a set of stereo rca jacks to the audio on the back (red and white colors) of the a500 to the tv and connect an rca from the video out (side of a520) to the yellow video connector of the tv. If your using the screw on RF type connector of your tv : The stereo sound out of your a500 needs to be connected to a y splitter to the one audio connector on the side of the a520 (yes its only mono now) You then use the RF out at the end of the A520 to connect to your tv in the RF screw on connector. You can do this by using a RF switch like the ones the old atari 2600's used to use, or get an adapter that has the cable tv type screw on connector on one side and an rca type plug (female) on the other. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ninajane" To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: new computers... Finally! > Hey (i dont know ur name) > > I have an Amiga 500+ with an A520 adaptor. > When i tuned it to my T.V. it just stays dark blue, but says there's a signal. > The animated hand thing doesn't even appear! Help! And I don't have the poster > about the connections!!! From mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org Mon Mar 31 19:53:26 2003 From: mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: AXP 7000 startup, now doing OSF/1 In-Reply-To: <3E84C6AF.7060905@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: this is probably the license issue becoming an issue... isildur On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I have installed OSF/1 on the AXP 7000 and it's working. Quite a bit > more snappy than the VAX6460. Man, I have no room for this machine > left and now I love it so much! > > I'd give you login account (over my dialup IP) just the problem I > am having is that after I built the custom kernel it still won't > let any user other than root login. It says "too many users logged > in alread, try again later". And that with zero users logged in > at the time. Can you think of any file I might be overlooking? > I can only think of /etc/nologin or something. My maxusers is at 32 > in the kernel configuration. I can't think why this would not be > correct in the kernel. > > regards, > -Gunther From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 31 19:55:22 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 available in TX (?) In-Reply-To: <3E84B7D0.6030200@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <0DBA5AEB-61A8-11D7-83AC-000393970B96@neurotica.com> It's being discussed, but no firm arrangements have been made yet. -Dave On Friday, March 28, 2003, at 04:00 PM, Gunther Schadow wrote: > So, what happened? Anybody took 'em? Was it true or too good to be > true? > > -Gunther > > Douglas Meade wrote: >> Sounds like a job for Dr. McGuire. >> On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: >>> Oops, it's not in TX, it's in Melbourne, FL and here is the URL >>> >>> http://www.4cheapparts.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/ >>> checkitout.cgi?networkpSTORE:4cPlistCKIE:prod11/750+ >>> >>> minimum QTY is 2. Hmm, very strange :-) > > -- Dave McGuire "I've grown hair again, just St. Petersburg, FL for the occasion." -Doc Shipley From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Mar 31 20:21:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: The Gospel according to ARD: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030401024226.GB50772@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 11:40:58PM +0100: > Since when have I been a collector, true or otherwise? It is not my aim > to own one of every version of a particular machine, I don't care about > original boxes, if I get shrink-wrapped manuals, I unwrap them (manuals > are for reading!), very few (if any) of my machines are 'original'. All > that surely means I am not a collector. Are you sure? :-) That would mean that I'm not a collector either. However, if I'm not a collector, why then am I collecting interesting machines at random to use and modify... and, of course, preserve. I don't care about having one version of every machine, the machine's appearance, superficial mechanical damage, etc. If it's repairable (e.g. - multilayer circuit boards not broken in two), looks interesting, has interesting circuitry, does something that I need it to do, has the potential for interesting modifications, etc., then it's a good candidate for my collection. If it's not repairable (e.g., smashed circuit board and various bits missing), then perhaps I can use bits of it for other things (computer related or with other circuitry). Historical significance, and preservation, are of interest to me, but I still feel that what's most important is using the machine, even if that requires modifying it. Why should some "collectors" and museums object to usage and modification? Are not such modifications themselves an example of what people were doing with technology at a certain point in time, and good examples of how machines could be used? > A _very_ good idea!. Never work on high voltage stuff with both hands -- > you don't want the current to flow through your heart. And make sure > there's somebody around who knows how to turn everything off if you _do_ > accidentally connect yourself to the mains. ...and let's not forget the feet, etc. Keeping one hand in the pocket won't help if one is standing barefoot in a puddle of water or leaning against a grounded object. Drinking from the garden hose while repairing a live HV supply, for example, is not a good idea... not that anyone on this list would do such a thing, but surely, somewhere, someone (most likely a sports fan (e.g., "duh, uh, let's watch footbawl or go play golf ...we ain't no *&$%#@*! intuhlechtuals") who likes Micro$oft products, and has just enough electronics knowledge to be dangerous) is doing such a thing as we think "no one would do that!" -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From t.ellis at talk21.com Mon Mar 31 20:27:59 2003 From: t.ellis at talk21.com (Tim Ellis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: DEC drives Message-ID: If anyone is interested I have just broken down a VAX and pulled all the boards out and the 2 digital RF35/RZ35 HDD From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Mar 31 20:46:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200303311843270531.06EC9677@192.168.42.129> On 30-Mar-03 at 12:17 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming language? > >It would be an excellent exercise for learning some programming. Yes, it is harsh, and such a statement is of absolutely no use to me since there are plenty of other things I have chosen to devote my time and energy to. I am, first and foremost, a hardware hack. I have a ton of respect for all the folks who have chosen to be code jockeys, but pesonally, I'm far happier with a soldering iron in one hand and a schematic in the other. Typing and debugging code all day, beyond the few scripts and config files I use to keep my 'net presence alive and well, would drive me nuts in less than a week. In short; I will do it if I have no other way to accomplish my goal. However, I will always search for a pre-written alternative (yes, I buy stuff from shareware authors) before I think about rolling my own. Fortunately, a number of other list users have offered outstandingly helpful pointers (thanks, troops!) As it turns out, it's not an odd-even split I need; It's high-byte/low-byte split. I'm still digging, and I find I often learn more along the way than I would if I sat down and started coding. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Mar 31 20:56:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility In-Reply-To: <200303311843270531.06EC9677@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <004301c2f7f9$d31ebe80$0181a8c0@k4jcw> Whic programmer do you have? Most that I'm familiar with (Needham, DataIO, BP Microsystems, Tribal) all have a utility that after downloading the image, allows you to program either the high byte or low byte of the image. Is your programmer one that's perhaps a standalone unit that doesn't support this? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bruce Lane > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 21:43 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Need byte-splitter utility > > > On 30-Mar-03 at 12:17 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > >This may sound harsh, but what is your favorite programming language? > > > >It would be an excellent exercise for learning some programming. > > Yes, it is harsh, and such a statement is of absolutely > no use to me since there are plenty of other things I have > chosen to devote my time and energy to. > > I am, first and foremost, a hardware hack. I have a ton > of respect for all the folks who have chosen to be code > jockeys, but pesonally, I'm far happier with a soldering iron > in one hand and a schematic in the other. Typing and > debugging code all day, beyond the few scripts and config > files I use to keep my 'net presence alive and well, would > drive me nuts in less than a week. > > In short; I will do it if I have no other way to > accomplish my goal. However, I will always search for a > pre-written alternative (yes, I buy stuff from shareware > authors) before I think about rolling my own. > > Fortunately, a number of other list users have offered > outstandingly helpful pointers (thanks, troops!) As it turns > out, it's not an odd-even split I need; It's > high-byte/low-byte split. I'm still digging, and I find I > often learn more along the way than I would if I sat down and > started coding. > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior > to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From mross666 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 21:05:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Any UK list members? Message-ID: >If anyone on here is from the UK, they might want to take a look at > >http://computerhardwareneeded.cjb.net and read this guys story I'm a Brit in the USA. Most of us are friendly helpful folks. Most of of us become unfriendly when directed to a website that tries to install Gator spyware on our machines, like you just did... Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 31 22:18:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: H89 as serial terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote: > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat, > > yeah. > > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk. But you are > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or > from hard-sectored disks. I wish that I could, Fred. Unfortunately, I do not have a hard sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am stumped. - don > There have been several C compilers for CP/M. Aztec/Manx is probably the > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C. Good news! As of 6 months > ago, BDS C became public domain! : > > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed > it, > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C, > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain. > > > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc > > > > Check it out! > > > > Rich B. From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 23:04:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Need byte-splitter utility Message-ID: What is the difference between odd/even and high/low? >As it turns out, it's not an odd-even split I need; It's high-byte/low-byte >split. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Mar 31 23:57:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:36:42 2005 Subject: Any UK list members? References: Message-ID: <001801c2f813$510d7a20$0100000a@milkyway> Mike Ross wrote: > Most of of us become unfriendly when directed to a website that tries > to install Gator spyware on our machines, like you just did... That's one of the advantages to Mozilla - I can set it not to show unrequested popups. A quick hack to my machine's HOSTS file finishes the job. No more Gator or Cometcursor :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/