From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jun 1 00:28:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:01 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: Charlie Smith's message of "Sat, 31 May 2003 18:25:46 -0400 (EDT)" References: <200305312225.h4VMPl515069@elektro.cmhnet.org> Message-ID: <200306010525.h515P4fo013768@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Charlie Smith wrote: > Does anyone remember if the Central Point Deluxe Option Board > can copy 1.4 MB 3.5" floppy disks? Quoting from the manual: * To copy high capacity, non-copy-protected disks (1.2 or 1.44 MB) you must use the TCM program included on the Deluxe Option Board software disk. * The Deluxe Option Board is not capable of copying copy-protected, high density disks. As these disks become more prevalent in the market, we may include this capability. -- end quote -- I'm thinking what this means is that you can use TCM to copy 1.44MB 3.5" media, but there's no guarantee that it will reliably copy media that are copy-protected. -Frank McConnell From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 1 01:29:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: That pesky Jupiter Ace *still* won't work...t In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50f39ffb4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > So what haven't you replaced yet? That could be a good starting point for > what still might be blown... Only the components from the video timing chain. It is possible that some of my repairs to the board may have shorted out. These repairs were concentrated around the RAMs, more or less. $DEITY knows how I'm going to test for that... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sun Jun 1 02:12:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <3ED6510E.8F80D853@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at May 29, 2003 02:27:26 PM Message-ID: <200306010711.h517BIAe018047@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Thanks to the Milwaukee Computer Society, MIDI Maze on the Atari ST will be returning as a computer display for the first time in 14 years. For those not familiar, MIDI Maze was the first networked personal computer game (using the ST series' built in MIDI ports). It's a fast paced action first person shooter maze game that links a network of up to 15 Atari ST computers through their built in MIDI ports. The Midwest Classic will have 10 Atari ST computers linked up for the game, and for a small fee, visitors will be able to play against each other and experience the fun! MIDI Maze was originaly released by Hybrid Arts at the Winter 1987 Consumer Electronics Show. Over a dozen ST's were hooked together at the Atari display, and a floating MIDI Maze game ran continously throughout the days of the show. Players move their character, a large smiley face around the maze in search of the other players. MIDI Maze was the true introduction of the networked First Person Shooter, and helped to inspire games like Wolfenstein 3D and DOOM. The Atari user group Milatari use to host the MIDI Maze event at Milwaukee hosted GenCon roleplaying gaming event in the late 80's, and hundreds of attendees would participate. GenCon may have moved to Indiana last year, but MIDI Maze is staying right here making an appearance after all these years at the Midwest Classic. www.midwestclassic.net for more info, or contact me if you're in the Milwaukee/Chicago area and interested in setting up a display of your own. Marty From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jun 1 05:45:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 2000 and VXT software, 4 plane color supported? In-Reply-To: <20030530190258.A16919@ithh.infoserv.de>; from sgust@ithh.infoserv.de on Fri, May 30, 2003 at 10:02:58 %z References: <20030530190258.A16919@ithh.infoserv.de> Message-ID: <20030601101226.GA1481@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.05.30 10:02 Soeren Gust wrote: > Is the color board supported by the VXT software? It shoud, as it is supportd in the VXT1300. (VXT1300 == VAXstation 3100 without SCSI adapter) Maybe you have not enough RAM for color? > Anybody want to swap firmware dumps? IIRC I have version 2.somthing with the SCSI boot patches installed... But I doubt that the firmware is the problem. I have to look for the VXT software too. I have at least two different versions. > The loading process via mop often takes several retries or even fails > completely, [...] Maybe the Linux MOPd doesn't work proper? > Another minor problem is that I don't have a real DEC mouse. It looks like you are from Germany? I think I have some extra VSxxx rodents. I can send you one if you want (to pay shipping). -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From classic at elektro.cmhnet.org Sun Jun 1 06:54:00 2003 From: classic at elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board Message-ID: <200306011153.h51Brev21733@elektro.cmhnet.org> Earlier, Frank McConnell wrote: > Received: (from uucp@localhost) by skylane.kjsl.com > (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with UUCP id h515RA9J093507 for > cctalk@classiccmp.org; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:27:11 -0700 (PDT) > (envelope-from fmc@reanimators.org) > Received: from daemonweed.reanimators.org (localhost.reanimators.org > [127.0.0.1]) by daemonweed.reanimators.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP > id h515P4Qo013771 for ; Sat, 31 May 2003 > 22:25:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fmc@daemonweed.reanimators.org) > Received: (from fmc@localhost) by daemonweed.reanimators.org > (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h515P4fo013768; Sat, 31 May 2003 22:25:04 > -0700 (PDT) > I'm thinking what this means is that you can use TCM to copy 1.44MB > 3.5" media, but there's no guarantee that it will reliably copy > media that are copy-protected. > Thanks for the info ... that's what I was afraid I was going to hear. I notice you are connected to kjsl.com via UUCP. There's less and less of that any more. For anyone's interest in the Ohio area, I've got a UUCP number in Columbus, and there are still 4 or 5 systems that use me as an upstream mail hub. Since the mapping project shut down, it's difficult to find a connection. - Charlie -- Charlie Smith classic@elektro.cmhnet.org 614-271-1418 http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~charlie/ Columbus Ohio USA SMS: charlie.sms@elektro.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 1 09:59:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 2000 and VXT software, 4 plane color supported? In-Reply-To: <20030530190258.A16919@ithh.infoserv.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 May 2003, Soeren Gust wrote: > Last week I searched again and found version 2.1 of > the VXT software in tar format, so I could finally > try it. That is the most recent (final) version of VXT, as far as I know. It works on the VXT2000, 2000+, VT1300, VAX 2000, and VAX 3100 series of machines, as long as they have either monochrome graphics installed, or a supported color option (4-plane, 8-plane GPX, SPX, or SPX+ card). The 2000 is tricky, in that its ROM implementation of the MOP loader protocol is very picky about buffer sizes during transfers, and since it has very space to play with, transfers can fail, especially with fast senders. > It works, but only in monochrome. Yup, it should. > If I put my VS40X 4 plane color option board into the > machine it seems to crash when it has finished loading. Are you sure the board is OK? I don't have a 4-plane in my machine, but know for sure it should work. Worst case, get an 8plane GPX board (from an 3100) - they're availble, dirt cheap and they work better :) > does not react on the break switch at the back. Is the color board > supported by the VXT software? Or is it a firmware issue? My board has > version 1.4, are there newer versions available? Or even older version? I believe mine is 1.7 or so, so this could be an issue.. if the ROM does not initialize the card right, you might get into trouble. Also, you need at least 8 or 12MB of RAM in the machine, as the entire MOP image gets loaded (and then expanded) in memory. It could well be that your system crashes on memory limits while trying to decompress the image and/or activating the color drivers. If you need a reliable (even under Linux :) MOP server, let me know. --fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 1 10:23:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 2000 and VXT software, 4 plane color supported? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > That is the most recent (final) version of VXT, as far > as I know. Hm. That was supposed to be a direct reply, but, as per usual, I keep forgetting the annoying cctalk reply settings :) --fred From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 1 13:13:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX) References: <3ED9494F.5010504@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <000f01c32869$29827b00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> There was a famous cover of the Lampoon that had a cute but nervous looking dog on it with the headline "Buy this magazine or we shoot this Dog" (indirectly: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000033PY.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg ) Anyway, I have a nice happy VAX 6610 that needs a new home in at most 10 days or I start scrapping it. This has to do with the economics of storage and so on. If you want to stop this destructive process please contact me and we'll help you pick it up before the 10th. Location: NJ-NYC-CT area. As an added bonus I will ship it free 30 miles if you will take it before Wednesday the 4th. Limited Time offer. John A. hey, life itself is just a series of Limited Time offers. From kempfj2 at rpi.edu Sun Jun 1 13:43:00 2003 From: kempfj2 at rpi.edu (Jesse Kempf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:02 2005 Subject: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX) In-Reply-To: <000f01c32869$29827b00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I suppose I'll have to assemble the necessary crew and grab your VAX. I already have a 6410, might as well get a 6610. Where are you? Cheers, Jesse Kempf ECSE Systems & Network Administrator Tamer of Unices and VAXen. Sun Emperor of the RPI E-Club. C++: Bringing you the latest advancements in programming errors. From kempfj2 at rpi.edu Sun Jun 1 13:45:01 2003 From: kempfj2 at rpi.edu (Jesse Kempf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1DDC0C48-9461-11D7-B4D4-0003936A08A2@rpi.edu> Gah. That should have been a private email. My error. Cheers, Jesse Kempf ECSE Network Administrator RPIMUG Campus Liason RPI Electronics Club Project Coordinator Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publius Syrus From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 1 14:35:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: That pesky Jupiter Ace *still* won't work...t In-Reply-To: <50f39ffb4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 1, 3 07:25:09 am Message-ID: > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > So what haven't you replaced yet? That could be a good starting point for > > what still might be blown... > Only the components from the video timing chain. You have a 'scope, and the outputs of the timing chain should be pretty regular, so it's not hard to ensure it's clocking correctly... You have checked the CPU clock, etc, are presnet, right? > It is possible that some of my repairs to the board may have shorted out. > These repairs were concentrated around the RAMs, more or less. $DEITY knows > how I'm going to test for that... An ohmmeter ? :-)... Check for shorts between adjacent pins/tracks, and the like More seriously, look for signals on RAM pins that don't look like clean TTL signals. If you find any, make sure you have not got 2 signals shorted together. You mentioned earlier that the ACE only loads the chargen after checking program RAM, etc. What does it do if the test fails? HALT? Goes into a tight loop? Can you see if it's getting there with the 'scope (if it's a tight loop, most of the address pins should be static, at least during MREQ cycles). -tony From als at thangorodrim.de Sun Jun 1 15:01:01 2003 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: simh help? In-Reply-To: <20030529194454.ED26766C4@tower.conman.org> References: <3ED62B9C.8050807@srv.net> <20030529194454.ED26766C4@tower.conman.org> Message-ID: <20030601193820.GA8781@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 03:44:52PM -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Kevin Handy once stated: > > > > That assumption started in the first versions of Unix on the PDP11, and > > still occurrs in new code. It's part of what was once called the > > "all the worlds a VAX" mentality. > > > > Make sure you have all warnings turned on when you compile (look for > > the CC definition), under gcc the option would be '-Wall'. Maybe it will > > point at something obvious. > > Also try: > > gcc -Wall -ansi -pedantic > > Be prepared for *lots* of warnings. > > -spc (I mean, lots) That isn't all - you can turn it up some more. One of my small C projects has a list of gcc-options explicitly built for maximum anal retentive mode of the gcc: -ansi -Wall -pedantic -Wtraditional -Wpointer-arith -Wshadow -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wcast-qual -Waggregate-return -Wmissing-declarations -Wnested-externs -Winline -Werror -W This make gcc complain about practically everything looking even remotely funny - only way to get more complaints would probably be to use a real lint. It can be annoying as hell, but I really find it helpful during development. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 1 15:26:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: That pesky Jupiter Ace *still* won't work...t In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30d5ecfb4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > You have a 'scope, and the outputs of the timing chain should be pretty > regular, so it's not hard to ensure it's clocking correctly... You have > checked the CPU clock, etc, are presnet, right? I can't see why the timing chain could be at fault. The master clock (for the Z80) is running, the sync signals (which require pretty much ALL of the signals from the TIC to be working) are OK... > > It is possible that some of my repairs to the board may have shorted out. > > These repairs were concentrated around the RAMs, more or less. $DEITY > > knows how I'm going to test for that... > An ohmmeter ? :-)... Check for shorts between adjacent pins/tracks, and > the like Even better - a Fluke 25 on "Diode Vf/Continuity Beep" mode. > More seriously, look for signals on RAM pins that don't look like clean > TTL signals. If you find any, make sure you have not got 2 signals shorted > together. I'll have a look at that over the next few weeks. Some of the data signals looked a bit "dirty" (electrical noise?)... > You mentioned earlier that the ACE only loads the chargen after checking > program RAM, etc. What does it do if the test fails? HALT? Goes into a > tight loop? Can you see if it's getting there with the 'scope (if it's a > tight loop, most of the address pins should be static, at least during > MREQ cycles). It looks like I misunderstood the code - it stores 0xFC in every byte, starting from the bottom of the main RAM, until the byte it reads back is not equal to 0xFC. It then rounds the RAM count down to the nearest kilobyte. Obviously, if it thinks the RAM isn't set up right, the stack is going to get pretty badly fudged. That shouldn't stop it from loading the CHG though... My money's on a short circuit somewhere in the VRAM circuitry. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 1 15:49:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: HP 80 Series Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030601165004.3d078364@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:24 PM 5/31/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I'm not that familiar with 80 series machines. >Can they be interfaced to HPIB HDD's? Yes a FEW of the HP-IB hard drives. The only drives that would work without specail support were the HP 9133/9134 that had a apecial option that made the disk look like three HP 9895 8" floppy dirves. There is a Extended Mass Storage ROM that will allow the HP 8x to handle a FEW of the othe HP-IB HDDs but I don't remember exactly which ones. >Can their tapes be read on HPIB based tape drives? No, The tapes were DC-100 type tapes and there's no HP-IB tape drive that handles that size tape except for the very rare HP 9877 External Tape Memory but it's only designed to work with tapes from the HP 9825 and 9831, plus no one has one that's still operational. I know some of the bigger tape drives use CS-80 protocall but I don't know if any use Amigo or SS-80 which are the only things that the HP-8x can handle so there no way that I know of to operate one the drives that uses the newer larger tapes from a HP-8x. > >If so then it may be possible to read/back them up using the HPIB / LIF >reader software I've been working on. >With the work that I've had to do on command formats I think that I may be >able to code a PC+HPIB card system that emulates CS80 or AMIGO based disk or >tape drives. >This would mean that the old HP system could boot from a PC emulating an >HPIB drive, removing ageing disk / tape drives from the loop. The HP-8x boot from ROM, ala C-64, the tapes and drives are used only for program and data storage. >Are these CS80 / AMIGO command set disks compatible with 80 series machines? It's been a while and I THINK this is correct. They handle Amigo command set with the Mass Storage ROM (it's built into the 85B but not the 85A). With the Extended Mass Storage ROM they can use some of the SS-80 hard drives. I don't think there is ANY support for CS-80. > >Joe: I have been trying to get hold of you - >How have you got on with the early version of the HPIB drive reader software >that I sent you? - does it catalog your drives OK? >I still need to get the postage cost on the 3 HP-UX manuals I won from you >on ebay so that I can close out that transaction. Let me know and I will >send you a cheque. Hi Peter, I replied to you several times but my messages don't appear to be getting through. I haven't had time to set up a machine with the HP-IB card and install your SW. I've been spending a lot of time with the HP 1000s and with a HP-IB interfaced Speech Synthesizer that I found. (It's COOL!) That's taken me deeper into the HP-IB bus operation and I've had to repair a couple of HP 59401 HP-IB Bus Analyzers for use with that. (Anybody got a manual for these?) I'm still looking for those blankity-blank manuals! Don't know where I put them. I found a set of paper back manauls of the same thing. I can send them to you if you need something right away. Did the other manuals arrive yet? Joe > >Cheers > >Peter Brown > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. >http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 1 15:50:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: <200305312225.h4VMPl515069@elektro.cmhnet.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030601162450.3d175c4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:25 PM 5/31/03 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone remember if the Central Point Deluxe Option Board >can copy 1.4 MB 3.5" floppy disks? yes, it will. I remember that the manual said that it could even copy Mac disks using a PC. IIRC the only thing that you had to do was to tell it the correct number of tracks for the type drive that you were using (80 tracks in this case). > >I had one of these boards and gave it to a friend last year. >If it will handle 1.4 MB diskettes, I can probably get it back >and install it on some sort of old 386 motherboard system. I wish I'd kept mine! Joe From tarsi at binhost.com Sun Jun 1 15:54:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: IBM 5324 In-Reply-To: <20030601193820.GA8781@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> References: <3ED62B9C.8050807@srv.net> <20030529194454.ED26766C4@tower.conman.org> <20030601193820.GA8781@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <200306011554.53988@210> Anyone have information on the IBM 5324? I just picked up one and can find nothing, nada, zip, zero, zilch on it. It's got the terminal, keybrd, and box. I have yet to open it up, but will soon. Thanks for any links or info you can provide. Tarsi From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 1 16:09:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030601162450.3d175c4a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Does anyone remember if the Central Point Deluxe Option Board > can copy 1.4 MB 3.5" floppy disks? "Sometimes" (not reliably) It works well at a 250K or 300K data transfer rate, but at the 500K data transfer rate it screws up occasionally. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Jun 1 16:12:00 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Restoration of a PDP-7: Update Message-ID: Hello! Thought I might bring you an update on the PDP-7. IT FRIGGIN' POWERED UP!!!! *ahem* With shaking hands (afraid the huge caps would explode all over me), on Wednesday 28th of May, I flipped the magic switch. Nothing happened. I flipped it again, and it worked. The surprise of it not catching fire was enough for me to yell without noticing it, "It WORKS, damnit!". I then proceeded to point at it and make a funny sound. Video of this will come up on http://tore.nortia.no/video when I have time to digitalize it. The rest of the day was spent testing the memory and the CPU (which mostly works). Thursday I tested the IO further, as did I on Friday. I got the paper tape punch to revolve, and feed at the command of the conveniently marked "Feed" button on the console. Now, further I/O repairs need doing, and maybe constructing an emulated Paper-Tape Reader is nessecary - - if so, I'll hook up the punch to it as well. Please see http://tore.nortia.no for continuing coverage. If you ever worked on this machine, especcialy while on DEC's side, LET ME KNOW! PLEASE; drop me a line! And yes, we do have software. Lots and lots of it in good condition. Don't know about the DECtapes though. Love, Piece, and Understatements _____________________ /Tore Sinding Bekkedal\ |toresbe@ifi.uio.no | |+47 91 85 95 08 \_________________________ | Semi-proud resident of Norway since 1988 \ \_______________________________________________/ From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Jun 1 16:14:00 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 wanted Message-ID: Question regarding the PDP-7 (see http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-June/015291.html) I am working on the Teletype (KSR33) and wondered if anyone has (a reasonably priced) one? ASR is a small plus, but not neseccary. I have a pathetic budget for this (?9, $12-ish) project, but I could probably scrape up some dough if needed. I live in Norway, so Europe is a plus. We have the 220v-115v converter built-in to the stand. And, does anyone know about the interface of the thing?? Is it RS-232 compatible? Love, Piece, and Understatements _____________________ /Tore Sinding Bekkedal\ |toresbe@ifi.uio.no | |+47 91 85 95 08 \_________________________ | Semi-proud resident of Norway since 1988 \ \_______________________________________________/ From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 1 16:19:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Jupiter Computer (No Not the ACE) Message-ID: <02ec01c32883$453f29a0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi all, I have in my hands a "Jupiter" computer and am wondering if you can offer any info on it? It is not the Jupiter ACE home computer, but a much earlier very large and obviously fairly old rack mounted system. The computer is based on the 68010 CPU. I can't determine how much memory it has on board, but there are more than several banks of 4164 mem chips which if I remember is a 64kbit dynamic Ram device. The huge keyboard is attached via a missing multipair cable and has two joysticks on either side. The monitor has separate RGB and Sync cables, each of which are generated using separate discrete component boards in the chassis. Inside the chassis are two huge Vertex hard drives, and a 3.5 in floppy, each connected to their discrete driver boards, Z80 based. On the front of the computer is "Jupiter". Model number is J12CHAS and Man date is "514". It was manufactured in Berkeley C.A. USA. The serial number is "Jup.S.N. 12C-1025-AA". I basically found it all on a curbside and couldn't resist adding it too my rather small but now growing collection. If you need any further info to help with identification let me know, I'll see what I more I can get from the chassis. Maybe I'm insane and have just picked up what most would consider total junk, but I personally think that systems such as this are worth preserving. I haven't been brave enough to switch the damn thing on yet, with all that discrete hardware it will probably double my power bill with about a minutes use. However I love all this old stuff, and worse comes to worse at least their are some interesting discrete components in it. If you need or would like a photo let me know, I'm a freelance photographer and will take a few shots anyway, so when I do I'll pass some scans on to you. Peter T. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 1 16:42:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <200306010711.h517BIAe018047@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: <20030601214107.14718.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > Thanks to the Milwaukee Computer Society, MIDI Maze on the Atari ST will > be returning as a computer display for the first time in 14 years. For > those not familiar, MIDI Maze was the first networked > personal computer game (using the ST series' built in MIDI ports). There was a game for the PET that linked user ports that was available years before the ST came out. It was well documented in Byte magazine. I never bought it because I had only one PET. Each player had a fixed base and a roving tank. The goal of the game was to lob an ICBM on the other player's base. You located it by exploring with the tank. I cannot recall the name at the moment, but it's come up for discussion on the list before. Beware making "first" claims. There's frequently an antecedent. -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 1 16:53:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FIRST?!?!? (was: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <20030601214107.14718.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > those not familiar, MIDI Maze was the first networked > personal computer game (using the ST series' built in MIDI ports). Are you saying that there did not exist ANY networked personal computer games until the time of the Atari ST? FAQ: First? ANY time that anybody announces ANYTHING as being "first", others can find examples of prior art. Although none were ever significant commercial successes, there were networked personal computer games on the TRS-80 (MODEL 1), Sony SMC-70, and probably MANY others. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 1 17:12:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: HP 80 Series Software In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030601165004.3d078364@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 1, 3 04:50:04 pm Message-ID: > >Can their tapes be read on HPIB based tape drives? > > No, The tapes were DC-100 type tapes and there's no HP-IB tape drive > that handles that size tape except for the very rare HP 9877 External Tape Actually, the 9877 is not an HPIB device. It's got a custom parallel interface which links to the 9825 using a 98032 16 bit GPIO interface module. Inside the 9877, there are 1 to 4 tape drives (identical to those in the 9825 itself), each with its own controller board, again very similar to the 9825's internal tape controller. There's a little interface PCB which handles things like drive selection and initialisation (and nothing else!), and a PSU, again mostly copied from the 9825. The interface on the 9877's tape controller card is pretty much the same as the 9825's internal I/O bus. The 9877 is a pretty dumb device. It transfers data 1 bit at a time over the LSB of the parallel bus. OK, it does use the DMA feature of the 98032. But much of the intellegence must have been handled in software on the 9825 > Memory but it's only designed to work with tapes from the HP 9825 and 9831, > plus no one has one that's still operational. I know some of the bigger Well, the hardware of mine still works, but like everyone else I'm missing the prgoram tape for the 9825. The correct wiring and jumpers for the 98032 would be useful too -- I know the pinout of the connector on the 9877, so can make a pretty good guess as to the wiring of the cable, but it would still be nice to know for sure. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 1 17:20:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: That pesky Jupiter Ace *still* won't work...t In-Reply-To: <30d5ecfb4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 1, 3 09:24:54 pm Message-ID: > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > You have a 'scope, and the outputs of the timing chain should be pretty > > regular, so it's not hard to ensure it's clocking correctly... You have > > checked the CPU clock, etc, are presnet, right? > I can't see why the timing chain could be at fault. The master clock (for the > Z80) is running, the sync signals (which require pretty much ALL of the > signals from the TIC to be working) are OK... Sounds as though the timing chain is fine, but it can't hurt to check it. IIRC there's some kind of multiplexer between the timing chain and the video RAM address lines (I can't remember if this is a real mux, or one of the Jupiter Ace type ones [1]). Maybe worth checking that's OK. In fact have you checked you have some activity at all the address and data pins of all the RAMs? If you see a pin that looks 'stuck' it would be worth investigating. [1] A vile idea of putting a 1k resistor in series with a TTL output and then coupling it to a 3-state output. If the 3-state output is 'off' then the other (totem-pole) output drives the line via the 1k resistor. If the 3-state output is 'on', then it overrides the signal coming via the 1k resistor... > > You mentioned earlier that the ACE only loads the chargen after checking > > program RAM, etc. What does it do if the test fails? HALT? Goes into a > > tight loop? Can you see if it's getting there with the 'scope (if it's a > > tight loop, most of the address pins should be static, at least during > > MREQ cycles). > It looks like I misunderstood the code - it stores 0xFC in every byte, > starting from the bottom of the main RAM, until the byte it reads back is not > equal to 0xFC. It then rounds the RAM count down to the nearest kilobyte. Right. What does it do if it finds no valid RAM? > Obviously, if it thinks the RAM isn't set up right, the stack is going to get > pretty badly fudged. That shouldn't stop it from loading the CHG though... Are you sure no stack or data memory is needed for this... > My money's on a short circuit somewhere in the VRAM circuitry. For it to load the chargen, the Wr/ and CS/ signals to the chargen RAM must be asseted at the same time, right? Can you attempt to detect this with the 'scop, maybe with an external OR (or NOR) gate? If you can trigger on that [2] (assuming a good 'scope [3]), then maybe you can look at the data going into the chargen, etc. [2] A useful trick, I don't rememebr where I learnt it, is to pulse the reset line at a few 10's of Hz. Slow enough that the machine does something after each reset, but fast enough that you get repetitive signals to look at on the non-storage 'scope. [3] A delayed timebase is very useful here.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 1 17:22:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 wanted In-Reply-To: from "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" at Jun 1, 3 11:12:56 pm Message-ID: > I am working on the Teletype (KSR33) and wondered if anyone has (a > reasonably priced) one? ASR is a small plus, but not neseccary. If you've got one that you're working on, why are you looking for another complete Model 33, rather than spare parts/manuals? These machines are not difficult to repair... > > And, does anyone know about the interface of the thing?? Is it RS-232 > compatible? Unlikely (but I guess possible). Most of the Model 33s used with computers have a current loop interface, either 20mA or 60mA. Converting that to/from RS232 is an interesting little project. -tony From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Jun 1 20:15:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay References: <021801c32619$8ae27280$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3EDAA4C9.69BC3B3E@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I noticed this on eBay and thought I'd post it here for those PDP-11 > >collectors among us: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2733136922&category=1247 > >The starting price ($199 US) seems high, but these are pretty hard to find. > >One possibly sour note though - the seller wants a flat rate of $150 to ship > >anywhere in North America. > Interesting. It's in identical shape to the one that I've got. I've been wondering how much one would sell for if it was fixed up a little. However, I think the outrageous shipping charge and unknown condition will prevent him from getting what he could for it. Jerome Fine replies: When Megan Gentry mentioned that the PDT-11/150 is able to do a LLF (Low Level Format) on the 8" floppy media, I asked about the possibility of a hard disk drive. Does the PDT-11/150 use the DX.SYS device driver to run the RX01 floppy media? I know there is a device driver called PD.SYS, but I am not sure what it supports. Also, from what I understand, the PDT-11/150 can run RT-11, but not RT11XM, only RT11SJ and RT11FB. And the maximum memory is probably 64 KBytes with the IOPAGE taking either 8 KBytes (or 4 KBytes?). Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Jun 1 20:24:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Anyone want... Message-ID: I have for you an NEC pc-8300 and a workslate. The workslate has some software and a pen-plotter device Both the NEC and the Workslate itself worked last time I tried them. I also have a load of MAC laptops and a two or three lunchboxstyle computers mostly 386 and 486 and mostly disassembled In the "real junk" stuff I have a vt220 terminal and a paralell dot matrix printer that acted failed when I tried them. This is just an "off the cuff" list.. expect a more complete list when I can get a cool morning to dig up stuff in the garage. I would like to trade them for somthing... here is a partial list: HP 41 calculator (any 41 model) Rockwell AIM 65 Commodore Portable (I have a 64 that I will add to the deal in this case.. it works and so does it's 1541) HP 75 or HP 71 "calculator" I will entertain other sugestions. From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Jun 1 20:32:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay References: <021801c32619$8ae27280$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <200306020131.VAA1302273@shell.TheWorld.com> >Does the PDT-11/150 use the DX.SYS device driver >to run the RX01 floppy media? No, it uses PD.SYS... and the actual code which does the hardware control is pretty much in ROM... the PD driver calls the ROM, and the ROM knows about RT-11 queue elements. It returns with either success or failure. >Also, from what I understand, the PDT-11/150 can run >RT-11, but not RT11XM, only RT11SJ and RT11FB. >And the maximum memory is probably 64 KBytes with >the IOPAGE taking either 8 KBytes (or 4 KBytes?). The actual memory layout is 60kb with a 4kb IOpage. It does not have a memory management unit, so RT11SB and FB are the only ones which run on it. Megan From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 1 20:54:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <20030601214107.14718.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > There was a game for the PET that linked user ports that was available > years before the ST came out. It was well documented in Byte magazine. > I never bought it because I had only one PET. Each player had a fixed > base and a roving tank. The goal of the game was to lob an ICBM on > the other player's base. You located it by exploring with the tank. > I cannot recall the name at the moment, but it's come up for discussion > on the list before. Flash Attack! Thanks to help from Larry Anderson, I got a game running for a demo I put together a few years ago. It was actually pretty cool. > Beware making "first" claims. There's frequently an antecedent. Indeed. Even Flash Attack! was a copy of a TRS-80 game that came out a few years earlier called "Combat" (not to be confused with the Atari 2600 game). But I think the "first" claim he is making is with regards to more than 2 nodes which, if you define "personal computer" broadly enough, would easily cover the computers that were used to play the original MazeWar (mainly Imlacs and Altos, plus some DEC graphics terminals). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 1 20:58:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FIRST?!?!? (was: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Although none were ever significant commercial successes, there were > networked personal computer games on the TRS-80 (MODEL 1), Sony SMC-70, > and probably MANY others. Another one is TelePong on the Apple ][. It was one of their very early software releases and came with their original serial card. It allowed you to hook two Apple ]['s together through either a null modem or a modem connection and play Pong against a remote opponent. I plan to exhibit this at a VCF some year. Maybe this one. Hmmm, a good theme for this year's VCF would be "Networked Computer Games through the Ages". Hmmm... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From owad at applefritter.com Sun Jun 1 21:24:00 2003 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: M734 schematic? Message-ID: <20030602022246.14082@mail.earthlink.net> The M734 module in my PDP-8/L is bad. Does anybody have a schematic for this part? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 1 21:57:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 2000 and VXT software, 4 plane color supported? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030602025619.46181.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > If you need a reliable (even under Linux :) MOP server, let me know. I need a MOP server for Solaris... no, really... I want to MOP-boot my DECserver 300. Thanks, -ethan From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Jun 1 22:15:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay References: <021801c32619$8ae27280$0200a8c0@cosmo> <200306020131.VAA1302273@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3EDAC0DD.9C52CC96@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > No, it uses PD.SYS... and the actual code which does the > hardware control is pretty much in ROM... the PD driver > calls the ROM, and the ROM knows about RT-11 queue > elements. It returns with either success or failure. Jerome Fine replies: Thank you! That accounts for the ability to be able to do the LLF. > The actual memory layout is 60kb with a 4kb IOpage. It > does not have a memory management unit, so RT11SB and FB > are the only ones which run on it. Is there an actual Qbus - or something else? It certainly sounds like a Qbus! But without extra memory, let alone an MMU, there also can't be a VM: either? Also, I presume there is no possibility of a hard drive? Also, the Qbus is probably limited and can't actually have any additional boards? How many DL ports are available? Finally, my guess is that SIMH could emulate the PDT-11/150 since all that would be required is the PD.SYS device driver. But I doubt that there is much of a reason to do so! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From spc at conman.org Sun Jun 1 23:17:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <20030601214107.14718.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 01, 2003 02:41:07 PM Message-ID: <20030602041634.DCAEC66C4@tower.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Ethan Dicks once stated: > > --- Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: > > Thanks to the Milwaukee Computer Society, MIDI Maze on the Atari ST will > > be returning as a computer display for the first time in 14 years. For > > those not familiar, MIDI Maze was the first networked > > personal computer game (using the ST series' built in MIDI ports). > > There was a game for the PET that linked user ports that was available > years before the ST came out. It was well documented in Byte magazine. > I never bought it because I had only one PET. Each player had a fixed > base and a roving tank. The goal of the game was to lob an ICBM on > the other player's base. You located it by exploring with the tank. > I cannot recall the name at the moment, but it's come up for discussion > on the list before. I thought of that as well (it was the December 1980 issue of Byte by the way, and later one it became Flash Attack available on the MajorBBS) but I discountd that as I thought it used the serial port to hook only two machines together; technically that may make it a "network" but not in the general sense of the word (multiple machines). The article itself was written by Tim Striker and someone else I don't recall and pretty much worked as described. Later on, Tim founded Galacticomm, which started out as a hardware company making multi-port serial boards but switched to software when one of their demo program, the MajorBBS, because a hit. I the late 80s, Tim (or maybe it was Scott Brinker [1]) rewrote Flash Attack for the MajorBBS. I even wrote a program [4] to help me play the game (which was encouragd by the company as they realized people would cheat, so they made the cheats available 8-) -spc (Interesting game ... ) [1] Nice guy, but wierdly intense in that optimistic Richard Simmons type of way. I first met him in the late 80s/early 90s when he was still in high school running one of the larger dialup BBSes in Ft. Lauderdale; this was when Flash Attack came out. A few years later in the mid 90s he became President of Galacticomm and during his stint the MajorBBS was being ported to Unix [2] and I was hired to help the port---I ended up quiting two weeks later over differences in coding styles [3]. [2] http://www.kenmaier.com/gcomm/mbbsunix.htm [3] They used K&R style and actively discouraged comments; no function or global variable could not be longer than seven characters (ANSI C89 limit, but realistically the compilers they used allowed more) and they themselves could not rationalize *why* they enforced that style (other than, that's what Tim, Scott and Bob [Stein] were used to). My arguments were dismissed, then so was I. [4] Still have the code and it works for both the PC and PCjr [5]. It was also smaller, faster, less intrusive (it was NOT a TSR) and did not require floating point math, unlike the program written by Galacticomm itself. I could also beat people dialed in at 1200 than those dialed in as 2400 ... [5] Subtle differences in how the keyboard interrupts work; enough that you have to code around them. From classic at elektro.cmhnet.org Sun Jun 1 23:50:01 2003 From: classic at elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 wanted In-Reply-To: from "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" at Jun 01, 2003 11:12:56 PM Message-ID: <200306020449.h524nSx29615@elektro.cmhnet.org> Earlier, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > [ ... ] > And, does anyone know about the interface of the thing?? Is it RS-232 > compatible? As I recall, the TTY 33 had a 110 baud modem built in. I don't think you had to order the modem as a separate thing. The other comment about a current loop interface sounds familiar, I presume that was between the internal modem and the controller box. > > Love, Piece, and Understatements Understatements go without saying :-) - Charlie -- Charlie Smith classic@elektro.cmhnet.org +1 614 271-1418 http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~charlie/ Columbus Ohio USA SMS: charlie.sms@elektro.com From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jun 2 00:27:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: Charlie Smith's message of "Sun, 1 Jun 2003 07:53:40 -0400 (EDT)" References: <200306011153.h51Brev21733@elektro.cmhnet.org> Message-ID: <200306020504.h5254Cj4036913@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Charlie Smith wrote: > Earlier, Frank McConnell wrote: > > I'm thinking what this means is that you can use TCM to copy 1.44MB > > 3.5" media, but there's no guarantee that it will reliably copy > > media that are copy-protected. > > Thanks for the info ... that's what I was afraid I was going to hear. Still, it shouldn't hurt to try. The TCM chapter in the manual has several hints that it may work, but I'm guessing it depends on the type of protection used. > I notice you are connected to kjsl.com via UUCP. There's less and less > of that any more. For anyone's interest in the Ohio area, I've got a > UUCP number in Columbus, and there are still 4 or 5 systems that use > me as an upstream mail hub. Since the mapping project shut down, it's > difficult to find a connection. Yes, although these days it's UUCP over TCP over ADSL. I don't think either of my upstreams have modems for dial-in UUCP any more. There was some talk here (or on the old classiccmp list) a while back about reviving the mapping project, but I don't think it ever came to anything. -Frank McConnell From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Jun 2 00:45:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay Message-ID: <200306020543.h525hqRS002990@io.crash.com> Jerome Fine wrote: . > Is there an actual Qbus - or something else? It certainly > sounds like a Qbus! The PDT has no Qbus. I believe the eBay auction has a picture with the top cover off and the top board elevated - you can make out a ribbon cable coming off the bottom board, and the paper insulating sheet that sits between the bottom two boards when closed. > Also, I presume there is no possibility of a hard drive? > How many DL ports are available? The PDT-11/150 was reportedly available with one or two RX01 drives, and three serial ports with another three optional. I've only seen the one I own, which has both drives and six ports. There're no other expansion options that I can recall. In fact it's sitting in the dining room with a VT100 waiting to be powered up to check some 8" floppies I received a while back. I'm in the process of bringing up a VAX 4000/500 I recently received and it'd be a hoot to connect the PDT to it. Did RT-11 ever include DECnet support? Probably so, but as of what version? I don't recall seeing mention of it with whatever version came with the PDT, and I'd be amazed if the PDT could support it... --Steve. smj(at)spamfree.crash.com (lose spamfree to get through, m'kay?) From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 2 00:49:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast Message-ID: Curt Vendel of the Atari Historical Society needs help. He's obtained a bunch of RM05 carthridges that apparently contain a lot of interest Atari corporate data. He'd like to read these but doesn't have the necessary gear. Is there anyone in the New York area (or thereabouts) who has an RK05 drive that they can loan to Curt so he can read these? Better yet, does anyone have a working PDP-11 system upon which these tapes can be read? Anyway, if you think you can help, please contact Curt directly at . On behalf of Curt, thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Jun 2 01:01:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay Message-ID: <200306020600.h5260TRS003130@io.crash.com> Steve Jones wrote: > The PDT has no Qbus. I should hedge my bets here: There is no Qbus backplane in the PDT-11/150. There are some stacking connectors between two dual- height sized boards (serial ports and memory) on top and the middle board, which carries the CPU complex. I believe the bottom board in the stack is the floppy controller - not sure if the console circuitry (8085 based?) is on that or the middle board. Now, where on earth do I have the docs for that critter... --Steve. smj(at)spamfree.crash.com (lose spamfree to get through, m'kay?) From aeg at paradise.net.nz Mon Jun 2 01:28:01 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <20030602041634.DCAEC66C4@tower.conman.org> Message-ID: On Monday, Jun 2, 2003, at 16:16 Pacific/Auckland, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: >> >> There was a game for the PET that linked user ports that was available >> years before the ST came out. It was well documented in Byte >> magazine. >> I never bought it because I had only one PET. > > I thought of that as well (it was the December 1980 issue of Byte by > the > way, and later one it became Flash Attack available on the MajorBBS) > but I discountd that as I thought it used the serial port to hook only > two > machines together; technically that may make it a "network" but not in > the > general sense of the word (multiple machines). I remember a "battleship" programme for the BBC model B from Byte Magazine (probably a couple of years later though). My uncle (who had a BBC B) and I with my BBC A sat and copied out the listing from the magazine, debugged and saved to tape. Upon connecting the two computers up, by their RS232 posts. we found it didn't work... Taking the tops off both computers we found the model A had all the connections for the RS232 cable but no RS232 controller, just an empty slot. This was a major blow after all that typing. That is how we found the second major difference between model A and B apart from the 16K to 32K memory increase. A slightly older networked "game" I know of was written by Roger Garrett and published in "Interface Age" magazine in the August / September / October 1977 issues. It was then followed by a comprehensive book in 1978 (which I have). There is a complete programme structure for a networked game - rather ambitiously titled "Star Ship Simulation" and based on the previous 1975 books detailing the Star Trek Enterprise design blueprints and Star Fleet Technical Manual. Each computer is one of the main bridge stations; Science, Engineering, Weapons, Navigation, Communications etc. I have read through most of the book and it is suggested that the programme could be written in Fortran, Basic or Machine Code - depending on the choice of the programmer. I have never seen or heard of this programme running. Has anyone else come across it? Alan From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 2 02:10:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay In-Reply-To: <200306020543.h525hqRS002990@io.crash.com> References: <200306020543.h525hqRS002990@io.crash.com> Message-ID: >The PDT-11/150 was reportedly available with one or two RX01 >drives, and three serial ports with another three optional. I've >only seen the one I own, which has both drives and six ports. >There're no other expansion options that I can recall. Mine has both drives, and I believe only three ports. >Did RT-11 ever include DECnet support? Probably so, but as of >what version? I don't recall seeing mention of it with whatever >version came with the PDT, and I'd be amazed if the PDT could >support it... Yes, there is DECnet for RT-11, however, I've never seen it, or heard of anyone with a copy. It would be most interesting to play with. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 2 02:21:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast Message-ID: <200306020722.h527MfHT028025@spies.com> RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb RK05's From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 07:13:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 wanted In-Reply-To: <200306020449.h524nSx29615@elektro.cmhnet.org> Message-ID: <20030602121242.17671.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Charlie Smith wrote: > Earlier, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > > [ ... ] > > And, does anyone know about the interface of the thing?? Is it RS-232 > > compatible? > > As I recall, the TTY 33 had a 110 baud modem built in. As an option. I have one ASR-33 with (along with a touch-tone keypad for dialling) and one without (fitted with the DEC reader-run relay and a six-wire console cable). The one with has it in the pedestal. It *fills* the pedestal. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 07:19:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <20030602041634.DCAEC66C4@tower.conman.org> Message-ID: <20030602121822.74923.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Ethan Dicks once stated: > > There was a game for the PET that linked user ports that was available > > years before the ST came out. It was well documented in Byte magazine. > > I thought of that as well (it was the December 1980 issue of Byte by > the way... Thanks. I *thought* it was in 1980, but I wasn't certain enough to claim it. > ... and later one it became Flash Attack available on the MajorBBS) > but I discountd that as I thought it used the serial port to hook only > two machines together PETs don't come with serial ports. The VIC-20 and C-64 had ROM code to give you a bit-banging TTL serial port up to 1200 baud, but that came after the PET. The Flash Attack communication protocol uses a custom cable that transfers a nybble with full handshaking. One end of the cable also has a specific pin grounded (the other end is floating) to allow the computers on either end to determine who sends first. I made a similar cable and used it extensively to transfer data between my C-64 and my PET in 1982, long before I got a 4040 drive. > technically that may make it a "network" but not > in the general sense of the word (multiple machines). All you need for a network is two machines. I've attached several VAXen over point-to-point sync serial links and run DECnet over them. Multiple machines and routing (or token passing) is another level of networking, to be sure, but that doesn't disqualify a network with only two endpoints. -ethan From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 2 07:49:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > I remember a "battleship" programme for the BBC model B from Byte > Magazine (probably a couple of years later though). My uncle (who had a So this would have been in 1984 maybe? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pfdj at attbi.com Mon Jun 2 07:49:19 2003 From: pfdj at attbi.com (Paul Donovan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: LK401-AA Message-ID: <012901c32854$26879710$1c7bfea9@XPMACHINE> Justin, I read your message from 31-Dec-02 about the LK401. I have a few new keyboards which you can have. I used sell this stuff but stopped a few years ago. I hate to just throw them away. I am in Massachusetts if you are interested. Paul Donovan From patbill75 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 2 07:49:21 2003 From: patbill75 at hotmail.com (Fred Bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: I am having trouble on my toshiba laptop 210CT the screen goes dark when i am working on it i then pull the screen down towards me the back up and the screen then goes back to normal can you help thanks paul tel 020 8838 4943 From hansp at citem.org Mon Jun 2 07:49:24 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: DIAGRAPH software/key problem Message-ID: <3EDA58C4.8070201@citem.org> Hello all, We have a graphics software package called DIAGRAPH which was released for HP 9000/200 and HP-150 computers each using a different hardware protection key. It turns out that we have the software for the 9000/200 but the key for the 150. Can anyone help us recover a working set of software and key? Regards, -- hbp From hansp at citem.org Mon Jun 2 07:49:26 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Restoration of a PDP-7: Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EDAEE23.5060708@citem.org> Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > And yes, we do have software. Lots and lots of it in good condition. Don't > know about the DECtapes though. If my experience is any guide the DECtapes will be fine. I have read at least 20 thirty year old tapes and I think had only 1 read error. Those things are indestructable! If you can sort through the DECtapes and send me one or two which you have duplicates of I will try and recover images with our PDP-9. Alternatively, come on down and visit Grenoble with your tapes and we can image them all! We can also do the paper-tapes, our reader and puch work fine. Regards, -- hbp From hansp at citem.org Mon Jun 2 07:49:28 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Teletype 33 wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EDAEEAB.6050903@citem.org> Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > I am working on the Teletype (KSR33) and wondered if anyone has (a > reasonably priced) one? ASR is a small plus, but not neseccary. I take it yours is not working > I live in Norway, so Europe is a plus. We have the 220v-115v converter > built-in to the stand. > And, does anyone know about the interface of the thing?? Is it RS-232 > compatible? No it will be 20ma current loop. Conversion to RS232 is quite trivial we have a homebuilt box which does that. Let me know if you need teh schematics. -- hbp From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 2 07:50:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: <200306020722.h527MfHT028025@spies.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb RK05's Ok, my ignorance. What drive is required to read them? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jun 2 08:46:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: That pesky Jupiter Ace *still* won't work...t In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94b54bfc4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Sounds as though the timing chain is fine, but it can't hurt to check it. Agreed. > IIRC there's some kind of multiplexer between the timing chain and the > video RAM address lines (I can't remember if this is a real mux, or one > of the Jupiter Ace type ones [1]). Maybe worth checking that's OK. Will do. You're right about it not being a real mux - a couple of 1k carbon resistors and a tristate buffer. YUCK! > In fact have you checked you have some activity at all the address and > data pins of all the RAMs? If you see a pin that looks 'stuck' it would > be worth investigating. OK. > > It looks like I misunderstood the code - it stores 0xFC in every byte, > > starting from the bottom of the main RAM, until the byte it reads back is > > not equal to 0xFC. It then rounds the RAM count down to the nearest > > kilobyte. > Right. What does it do if it finds no valid RAM? I have no idea... Looks like it'll set RAMTOP (?) to 0, thereby screwing up any and all further RAM calculations. > > Obviously, if it thinks the RAM isn't set up right, the stack is going to > > get pretty badly fudged. That shouldn't stop it from loading the CHG > > though... > Are you sure no stack or data memory is needed for this... Er... No. My Z80 is rusty. VERY rusty... > For it to load the chargen, the Wr/ and CS/ signals to the chargen RAM > must be asseted at the same time, right? Can you attempt to detect this > with the 'scop, maybe with an external OR (or NOR) gate? I'll have to snaffle a 40-series gate from my junkbox but it should be possible. I'll need to find a set of probes as well... > If you can trigger on that [2] (assuming a good 'scope [3]), then maybe > you can look at the data going into the chargen, etc. On a dual-channel scope? Hmm... That's going to be fun... > [2] A useful trick, I don't rememebr where I learnt it, is to pulse the > reset line at a few 10's of Hz. Slow enough that the machine does > something after each reset, but fast enough that you get repetitive > signals to look at on the non-storage 'scope. Right. I'll grab a 555 from the junkbox as well. > [3] A delayed timebase is very useful here.... The 466 has a dual timebase with a Delay mode so I guess there's no problem there. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jun 2 08:51:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > > > RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb RK05's > > Ok, my ignorance. > > What drive is required to read them? Google revealed http://www.proximity.com.au/~brian/comp/vax750.html. I'm guessing the disk packs belonged to a DEC VAX system of some type or other. The URL I mentioned gives specs for someone's VAX 11/750 BTW. The RM05 is supposedly a 250MB "Massbus" disk, if that means anything to any DEC experts around here... Disclaimer: I've never even seen a Digital (DEC) machine, much less used one. I just plugged "DEC Digital RM05" into Google and had a look through the results... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 2 09:21:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast References: Message-ID: <006501c32911$ea03b440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> Ok, my ignorance. I don't know of a better resource than this, though it doesn't have everything, like RL02's and the RK. http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/storage.html#s torage:rm05 "RM05 Capacity: 256MB Size: 14" removable, ~200Kg Power: 220/240V @ 14A start, 10A run Notes: 12 platters, based on CDC 9766" >>> needs RK05 drive on east coast The RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is a good place to try on the east coast for DEC: http://www.osfn.org/rcs John A. From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jun 2 09:27:01 2003 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:03 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: References: <200306020722.h527MfHT028025@spies.com> Message-ID: <20030602143215.GA6007@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 05:45:15AM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb RK05's > Ok, my ignorance. > What drive is required to read them? A RM05 drive or a RK05 drive. ;-) The more important question is what machine and OS was used to write the disk packs? The RK05 needs a UNIBUS or OMNIBUS controller, so at least PDP-8, PDP-11 or a VAX comes in question. The RM05 is a MASSBUS drive. MASSBUS (e.g. via a UNIBUS - MASSBUS controller) can be found on larger PDP-11s, VAXen and PDP-10 / DECSYSTEM 10 / 20 machines. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jun 2 09:50:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Computer in Dark Star References: <3ED9494F.5010504@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <006b01c32915$88b3c280$02c20b43@starfury> IIRC, many of the SF films of the 60s-70s used bits and pieces from two old NORAD computers... Anyone remember what --those-- looked like? Cheers... ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 07:31 PM Subject: Computer in Dark Star > Just been watching John Carpenter's film "Dark Star" (again). There's > a very brief shot of a computer toggle-switch front panel. It seems to > have two rows of 15 lights (neons?) and two rows of toggle switches > (with plastic tips). It looks like a genuine machine, not a made-up > prop, but what machine is it? Does anybody know? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Jun 2 09:53:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Anyone want... In-Reply-To: <000101c328e4$5d1a6010$3e481f43@madness> Message-ID: On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 01:52 AM, vega wrote: > > Hey man, whats your realtime location? Im in new york, I think Id like > to take a look at some of your shtuff San Jose, CA From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 10:06:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030602150540.12486.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > > RM05 packs are 300mb cake platters... Quite different from 2.5mb > RK05's > > > > What drive is required to read them? > Google revealed http://www.proximity.com.au/~brian/comp/vax750.html. I'm > guessing the disk packs belonged to a DEC VAX system of some type or > other. > The URL I mentioned gives specs for someone's VAX 11/750 BTW. The RM05 is > supposedly a 250MB "Massbus" disk, if that means anything to any DEC > experts around here... Quite a bit. The RM05 was the largest in a particular line of MASSBUS drives based on CDC internals. I have not personally laid hands on an RM05, but I have worked on the innards of a number of CDC drives and of several DEC RM03s. The RM02 and RM03 are repackaged CDC 9762 drives. The difference being rotation speed (the RM02 was sold with RH11 controllers, while the faster RM03 went to VAXen and perhaps PDP-11/70s). The RM05 is a repackaged CDC 9766. I don't have the capacity figures right here, but ISTR that a raw 9762 drive (on an SMD controller) was around 80MB, but as DEC used it in the RM02/RM03 it was an effective 67MB. I know that the 160MB SMD Fuji drive I have emulates two RM03s, at 67B each. There may be a similar thing going on with the 9766 vs the RM05. You can use an RM05 with an 11/750, but it's possible that the packs in question were also used with a PDP-11. Knowing a little about the source might help extraction (although sticking an RM05/9766 on a suitably equipped VAX under UNIX and using 'dd' could get you a disk image file). -ethan From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 2 10:25:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: M233 Disk Shift Reg. Message-ID: <3EDB6C1D.F16332AE@rain.org> Anyone know what this M233 Disk Shift Reg. goes into? I've checked the field guides and google, and so far nothing. It is a DEC single height M-Series Module. ------------------------------------------- ebaY's Security Breach and Coverup http://www.auctionguild.com/generic110.html SellYourItem.com - Your Member Driven Auction Community! http://www.sellyouritem.com From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jun 2 10:29:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Where have all the Selectrics gone? References: Message-ID: <01bb01c3291b$02b359b0$02c20b43@starfury> I dunno where they all went... In my case, I had a competing Smith-Corona daisy-wheen typewriter with a female DB9 attachment on the back that hooked into my first Realistic (tv monitor) computer, and made a right fair LQ printer. I gave it to my daughter 9-10 years ago, and it seems to have disappeared since then... Cheers Ed/San Antonio, TX, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ross" To: Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 05:29 PM Subject: Where have all the Selectrics gone? > IBM made a bunch of printer terminals based around the Selectric typewriter > - 1052, 2740, 2970 etc. Look in any old copy of BYTE, and you'll also find > several vendors were selling 3rd party terminals based around IBM > Selectrics, often converted for ASCII/RS-232c operation, as teletype > alternatives. > > Where have they all gone? (I appreciate, from what I've heard, that many > folks who used them in anger would reply 'I don't know, I don't care, good > riddance!') Early DECwriters are not uncommon. Teletypes are (almost) ten a > penny, ASR33s show up frequently enough on ebay, I have several. > > But the only Selectric based unit I've *seen* in over ten years of > collecting is a 2970 Reservation Termainal (see > http://www.corestore.org/2970-1.jpg ) which I was offered a year or so ago. > It needs a fair bit of TLC, and it's a print-only device; it can receive > data from a host and print it, but not send anything back from the keyboard. > > I'd love to get a bidirectional equivalent to use as an 'authentic' terminal > for a 360 emulator I work with... any clues? Can anyone recommend a > Selectric repair shop? No way I want to try to fettle something THIS > mechanically-intimidating myself! > > Mike > http://www.corestore.org From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 2 10:30:01 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: HP 80 Series Software Message-ID: Hi All, > Yes a FEW of the HP-IB hard drives. The only drives that would work >without specail support were the HP 9133/9134 that had a apecial option >that made the disk look like three HP 9895 8" floppy dirves. There is a... Sounds like it is a bit of a non-starter... > I replied to you several times but my messages don't appear to be >getting through. I haven't had time to set up a machine with the HP-IB card >and install your SW. Let me know when you get things going, the software has gone through a number of revisions since the version I sent you. I'm now looking at an application that first strips all the data from an HPIB disk drive dumping it onto a PC. A second application on the PC then emulates an HPIB drive using groups of files stored in a simple directory system on the PC. >I've been spending a lot of time with the HP 1000s and >with a HP-IB interfaced Speech Synthesizer that I found. (It's COOL!) Sounds like a pretty rare piece of kit - is it a commercial Speech Synthesizer or home-brew? >That's taken me deeper into the HP-IB bus operation and I've had to repair >a couple of HP 59401 HP-IB Bus Analyzers for use with that. (Anybody got a >manual for these?) I certainly have an operations manual, it may include some service bits and pieces. I'll take a look when I get home to the UK. I have a couple of these bus analysers at home, I used them in the initial investigations for the CS80 reader. You can use them to slow down the bus traffic on an HPIB system either to 2 transactions a second or single step. I tried using one to investigate the traffic between a 9000 300 machine and a disk drive but as soon as you slow the bus down the 300 series machine complains that the disk has timess out. Luckily I have an old HP 3562 spectrum analyser than interfaces to CS80 / AMIGO disks. You can single step though commands with no timeout problems using it as the disk controller. In the end though useful the 59401 is somewhat limited in what it can do. With the long command sequences that I was examining I ended up having to write down each octal (Yes, OCTAL - the I lost count of the number of times that I accidentally read the numbers as hex....) data packet as it appeared on the bus and then go back and try to decode what it all meant. The bus analyser also occasionally dropped the first byte of information being sent back by the HPIB disk drive. I'm currently investigating another option. NI make a GPIB+ card (ISA or PCI) that acts as both a GPIB controller and a GPIB analyser. In theory this can be set up to 'sniff' the GPIB bus and generate a log file of each GPIB bus event (with a 50 ns time resolution). The log can be as long as you want so no more laboriously copying down octal codes. I'll let you know how I get on. > I'm still looking for those blankity-blank manuals! Don't know where I >put them. I found a set of paper back manauls of the same thing. I don't need the manuals straight away. I'm hoping they contain some info about HP-UX file formats (and general HP-UX stuff - I have no experience with HP-UX systems) >Did the other manuals arrive yet? I haven't seen them yet but it's a few days since anyone checked my mail for me. Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 10:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: M734 schematic? In-Reply-To: <20030602022246.14082@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20030602153235.17950.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Owad wrote: > The M734 module in my PDP-8/L is bad. Does anybody have a schematic for > this part? What slot is that in? I have several PDP-8/Ls and I don't recognize that handle number, nor could I find it listed on the location chart at http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/tifftopdf.pl/pdp8prints/8lmodloc.pdf -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 10:36:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: M233 Disk Shift Reg. In-Reply-To: <3EDB6C1D.F16332AE@rain.org> Message-ID: <20030602153501.53875.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > Anyone know what this M233 Disk Shift Reg. goes into? I've checked the > field guides and google, and so far nothing. It is a DEC single height > M-Series Module. Dunno, but I did hear of an M-series DF32. Alternately, you might look at the prints for an RK11-C. Sounds interesting. I have an M239 that I have no idea as to its home, either. -ethan From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jun 2 10:51:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: <20030602150540.12486.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The RM05 was the largest in a particular line of MASSBUS drives based > on CDC internals. Correct. > while the faster RM03 went to VAXen and perhaps PDP-11/70s). The RM05 > is a repackaged CDC 9766. Afaik, just relabeled... unlike the RM02/3, they didnt change the 05 [much]. > You can use an RM05 with an 11/750, but it's possible that the packs > in question were also used with a PDP-11. I doubt the RH11 is fast enough to handle the RM05 blasting its data onto the bus. Wasnt the RM03 the largest one to be runnable off the RH11 controller? Anyway... yeah, if you can find a VAX with Massbus controller and an RM05 drive, you only need to grab a straight image off the packs, and do any "smart" work on simulators such as SimH or Charon-VAX. --f From drido at optushome.com.au Mon Jun 2 11:28:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030603022759.01202f48@mail.optushome.com.au> At 02:24 AM 6/3/03, you wrote: >On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote: > >> I remember a "battleship" programme for the BBC model B from Byte >> Magazine (probably a couple of years later though). My uncle (who had a > >So this would have been in 1984 maybe? I think I have the have listing for a least one multiplayer game on the BBC, not sure if it's this one though. From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 11:59:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <20030602152501.65052.34500.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030602165847.52121.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Oh Man!!! I thought I was the only one who remembered this book fondly! I used to have this book and pour through it. Wishing I had the money to build a replica of the Enterprise bridge and make each station a Computer like this book outlined. Alas, I've lost my copy of this book. I hope I can find another some day... (Can you send me ISBN Information?) Thanks for the title and author, that should help a lot... I think something like this would make a WONDERFUL type of attraction. Where people would pay to spend a day in the Simulator and go "Exploring". What's missing in a lot of the Computer Games today, is just the fun of exploring... Not just blowing up Borg or Klingons and the like... Like Starflight I or II... Even Escape Velocity on the Mac is fun, because you don't have to go battling, you can just go around trading and building up your ship... Regards, Al From: Alan Greenstreet > > A slightly older networked "game" I know of was > written by Roger Garrett and published in > "Interface Age" magazine in the August / > September / October 1977 issues. It was then > followed by a comprehensive book in 1978 (which I > have). There is a complete programme structure for > a networked game - rather ambitiously titled > "Star Ship Simulation" and based on the previous > 1975 books detailing the Star Trek Enterprise > design blueprints and Star Fleet Technical > Manual. Each computer is one of the main bridge > stations; Science, Engineering, Weapons, Navigation, > Communications etc. > > I have read through most of the book and it is > suggested that the programme could be written in > Fortran, Basic or Machine Code - depending on the > choice of the programmer. I have never seen or > heard of this programme running. Has anyone else > come across it? > > Alan From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 2 12:01:24 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: <20030602150540.12486.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030602150540.12486.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I don't have the capacity figures right here, but ISTR that a raw 9762 >drive (on an SMD controller) was around 80MB, but as DEC used it in the >RM02/RM03 it was an effective 67MB. I know that the 160MB SMD Fuji drive >I have emulates two RM03s, at 67B each. There may be a similar thing >going on with the 9766 vs the RM05. I recommend the excellent document on DEC disks at Phil Budne's site: http://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/ From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 12:12:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <20030602152501.65052.34500.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030602171125.59635.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> I'm finding all this discussion about debugging the Jupiter Ace Fascinating, if a bit over my head. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 2 12:14:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: That pesky Jupiter Ace *still* won't work...t Message-ID: <200306021712.KAA16854@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk ---snip--- > >[2] A useful trick, I don't rememebr where I learnt it, is to pulse the >reset line at a few 10's of Hz. Slow enough that the machine does >something after each reset, but fast enough that you get repetitive >signals to look at on the non-storage 'scope. > >[3] A delayed timebase is very useful here.... > >-tony > Hi Another useful trick for debugging 8080/Z80 machines is to float the data bus with some pullup resistors at the uP. This causes the processor to execute endless RST7's. This will make it loop through the addresses so that one can easily check out selects and such with a scope. I remember from my old days at Intel, I had an 8080 on a home made socket adapter that I could do this with. It was always the first thing I grabbed when I had a new system that wouldn't boot. It had a switch on it so that I could convert the normal PUSH of the address to be a read instead of a write. This allowed me to check data buffers in both directions as well. It seems like the switch changed the pullups to pull downs to generate NOP's instead of RST7's but it has been a long time. Just a thought. Dwight From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 2 12:33:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: <200306011153.h51Brev21733@elektro.cmhnet.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030602101423.00a2d6f0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 07:53 AM 6/1/03 -0400, Charlie Smith wrote: > > I'm thinking what this means is that you can use TCM to copy 1.44MB > > 3.5" media, but there's no guarantee that it will reliably copy > > media that are copy-protected. > > > >Thanks for the info ... that's what I was afraid I was going to hear. I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but I wonder what version of the cps tools the above comment refers to. CPS I think continued to support the option board through many many releases of the toolkit, which went up to like version 7.1 or so just within the dos/w3.1 era. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jun 2 12:35:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator Message-ID: I just aquired (won on ebay, totally forgot I bid on it), a pretty neat little Apple item I never knew existed. Its an RGB -> NTSC modulator for the Apple IIc. It also came with a game/TV switch box, but I don't know if that was originally part of the package, or just a seperate item that was included in the auction. I've never seen this little device before, and had no idea it existed. There doesn't seem to be too much about it online. Has anyone else ever seen or used one of these? I'm just curous really as there isn't much to know or learn about it. It looks like it will only fit the IIc (it has a big lump on it that prevents it from installing on anything else without a cable). And the device is pretty self explanitory in how it works. I was able to figure out from the part numbers and a little searching that I believe this is the NTSC version. There is also a PAL version (any others?). This one appears to be almost brand new. There is zero discoloration and other than slight scratches from screws on the leads to the TV/Game switch box, there is no marring at all. -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 2 12:35:04 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace Message-ID: <200306021734.KAA16863@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Al Hartman" ---snip--- > >I think if I spot a Jupiter Ace on eBay, I'd like to >get one. Just for play. > ---snip--- Hi Al Don't be surprised by sticker shock. These don't go cheap like a C64 or something. Dwight From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jun 2 12:55:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Wang Professional In-Reply-To: <200306021734.KAA16863@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: I was moving some Wang documentation yesterday and found some on the 1983 Wang Professional Computer. Buried in the text, and hard to find, it turns out it runs Wang Enhanced MS-DOS 2.0. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jun 2 13:32:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: <20030602150540.12486.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030602150540.12486.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > You can use an RM05 with an 11/750, but it's possible that the packs > in question were also used with a PDP-11. Knowing a little about the > source might help extraction (although sticking an RM05/9766 on a > suitably equipped VAX under UNIX and using 'dd' could get you a disk > image file). I seem to recall there being some folklore about Atari running at least part of their business on one or more VAXen, and at some point bartering some VAX equipment in exchange for services. There's some history on Atari's VAX systems here: -brian. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 13:37:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030602183629.66085.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Knowing a little about the source might help extraction... > > I seem to recall there being some folklore about Atari running at least > part of their business on one or more VAXen, and at some point bartering > some VAX equipment in exchange for services. Commodore, too, used VAXen, (though probably because of their commercial prominence at the time, rather than because of any sort of cross- pollinization of personnel). Remember "cbmvax"? -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 2 13:41:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030602101423.00a2d6f0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: > > > I'm thinking what this means is that you can use TCM to copy 1.44MB > > > 3.5" media, but there's no guarantee that it will reliably copy > > > media that are copy-protected. On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but I wonder what version of the cps > tools the above comment refers to. CPS I think continued to support the > option board through many many releases of the toolkit, which went up to > like version 7.1 or so just within the dos/w3.1 era. It was still valid at the point where they discontinued the product (and gave a nice closeout offer to those of us who had bought in quantity). There were a number of "HD" formats that it couldn't handle (I was NOT dealing with copy-protection), and even a few that it couldn't handle that were readable through int13h. But his support of his mass duplication products might have been different. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 14:20:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jun 1, 3 10:44:55 pm Message-ID: > Curt Vendel of the Atari Historical Society needs help. He's obtained a > bunch of RM05 carthridges that apparently contain a lot of interest Atari > corporate data. He'd like to read these but doesn't have the necessary > gear. > > Is there anyone in the New York area (or thereabouts) who has an RK05 Which is it? The RK05 is a single-platter 2.5M byte unit, and is fairly common. The RM05 is a floor-standing washing machine (12 platter pack??) and is much rarer. The 2 are not compatible. > drive that they can loan to Curt so he can read these? Better yet, does > anyone have a working PDP-11 system upon which these tapes can be read? Was the RM05 ever supported on PDP11s? (maybe on the 11/70 suing the built-in MASSbus adapters, but I would be suprised if a MASSbus -> Unibus interface would be fast enough). These packs could well have come from a VAX system. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 14:20:28 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Where have all the Selectrics gone? In-Reply-To: <01bb01c3291b$02b359b0$02c20b43@starfury> from "Ed Tillman" at Jun 2, 3 10:24:07 am Message-ID: > I dunno where they all went... In my case, I had a competing Smith-Corona > daisy-wheen typewriter with a female DB9 attachment on the back that hooked This reminds me,... Somewhere I have an electronic tyewriter, It's portable, battery operated (!), and has a Centroinics port on the side so you can use it as a printer. The mechanism? A wide-carriage (8" or so) version of that little ballpoint pen plotter that we discussed recently, you know the CBM1520/CGP115/etc one). One odd pen i have for it once contained white-out type correction fluid and and could be used to erase characters from the output (!). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 14:20:30 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace In-Reply-To: <20030602171125.59635.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> from "Al Hartman" at Jun 2, 3 10:11:25 am Message-ID: > I'm finding all this discussion about debugging the > Jupiter Ace Fascinating, if a bit over my head. > > >From what I understand, the unit is VERY similar to a > Timex/Sinclair 1000 or Sinclair ZX-81. I beleive the hardware is very different!. The Ace has 3K of memory. 1K for program storage, 1K for video, 1K for a programmable character generator. There's a real video timining chain in there too -- the display is mostly done in hardware, unlike on the ZXs. > Still got my eye out for a ZX-80. When they came out, It's one of the machines I don;t have either... > I remember going to the Trenton Computer Festival, and > having to decide between getting a ZX-80 or a Disk > Drive for my TRS-80 Model I (1981 I think...). I remember seeing one at a radio rally (hamfest) towards the end of the 1980's. I think I could either have bought that or an TDMS5 teleprinter test set (full of valves, and with service manual). You can guess what I did :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 14:20:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: That pesky Jupiter Ace *still* won't work...t In-Reply-To: <94b54bfc4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 2, 3 02:41:13 pm Message-ID: > > IIRC there's some kind of multiplexer between the timing chain and the > > video RAM address lines (I can't remember if this is a real mux, or one > > of the Jupiter Ace type ones [1]). Maybe worth checking that's OK. > Will do. You're right about it not being a real mux - a couple of 1k carbon > resistors and a tristate buffer. YUCK! I thought it might be... Yuck (or Bletch!) is right :-) > > > Obviously, if it thinks the RAM isn't set up right, the stack is going to > > > get pretty badly fudged. That shouldn't stop it from loading the CHG > > > though... > > Are you sure no stack or data memory is needed for this... > Er... No. My Z80 is rusty. VERY rusty... Well, the stack is needed for CALL (or more strictly RET, in that a CALL will get to tthe right place without the stack, but you'll never get back) instructions, certainly. Does it call any subroutines (or use RSTs) before loading the chargen? > > > For it to load the chargen, the Wr/ and CS/ signals to the chargen RAM > > must be asseted at the same time, right? Can you attempt to detect this > > with the 'scop, maybe with an external OR (or NOR) gate? > I'll have to snaffle a 40-series gate from my junkbox but it should be > possible. I'll need to find a set of probes as well... 4000 series CMOS may well not be fast enough for this -- you should get a 74LS32 or 74LS02, I think. You don't wnat problems caused by the test set-up. In cany case, just chack that the CS/ line is not always asserted (grounded). It might well be for something like the chargen or video memory, since those are read out continuously to produce the display. If that is the case, you just need to trigger on the Wr/ signal at the RAM (which will be a combination of the Z80's Wr/ signal, the output from an address decoder, and so on). > > > If you can trigger on that [2] (assuming a good 'scope [3]), then maybe > > you can look at the data going into the chargen, etc. > On a dual-channel scope? Hmm... That's going to be fun... Well, if one bit is loading correctly it'll be a start... > > > [2] A useful trick, I don't rememebr where I learnt it, is to pulse the > > reset line at a few 10's of Hz. Slow enough that the machine does > > something after each reset, but fast enough that you get repetitive > > signals to look at on the non-storage 'scope. > Right. I'll grab a 555 from the junkbox as well. Indeed :-) > > > [3] A delayed timebase is very useful here.... > The 466 has a dual timebase with a Delay mode so I guess there's no problem > there. Oh, if you have a Tektronix with 2 timebases and the delay time multiplier control you'll be fine ;-) -tony From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Jun 2 14:56:00 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: Whenever I type anything I just get a left-arrow. I am blaming the 1818-23/-21 for this. Shouldn't I? OK; current loop. Would this explain a resistor (14 Ohm, big) in the slot of the KSR would get extremely hot when off this loop? Also; Hans Pufal, I would be most grateful for the schematics for the CL>RS232 converter. Also tell me more about the modifications made to the TTY control on the PDP? The card says 181823 on the solder side and 181821 on the other. Thanks! -Tore "Life's a bitch and then you turn on your PDP and it's all nice and when you turn it off it goes back to being a bitch. Repeat when nessecary. Oh, and you die, btw." From aeg at paradise.net.nz Mon Jun 2 15:00:01 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning In-Reply-To: <20030602165847.52121.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <549D40C4-9535-11D7-A2AD-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> On Tuesday, Jun 3, 2003, at 04:58 Pacific/Auckland, Al Hartman wrote: > Oh Man!!! > > I thought I was the only one who remembered this book > fondly! > Alas, I've lost my copy of this book. I hope I can > find another some day... (Can you send me ISBN > Information?) For all who may be interested. ISBN: 0-918398-10-X I had a quick scan on Amazon and it came up! It was out of print but there were a few second hand copies for about $12. Good luck. > > Thanks for the title and author, that should help a > lot... > > I think something like this would make a WONDERFUL > type of attraction. Where people would pay to spend a > day in the Simulator and go "Exploring". > > What's missing in a lot of the Computer Games today, > is just the fun of exploring... Not just blowing up > Borg or Klingons and the like... > > Like Starflight I or II... > > Even Escape Velocity on the Mac is fun, because you > don't have to go battling, you can just go around > trading and building up your ship... I also remember "Elite", which had the same principal. Full 3D graphics but only stick frame objects (no rendering) - I thought it was fantastic at the time > > Regards, > Al > > From: Alan Greenstreet >> >> A slightly older networked "game" I know of was >> written by Roger Garrett and published in >> "Interface Age" magazine in the August / >> September / October 1977 issues. It was then >> followed by a comprehensive book in 1978 (which I >> have). There is a complete programme structure for >> a networked game - rather ambitiously titled >> "Star Ship Simulation" and based on the previous >> 1975 books detailing the Star Trek Enterprise >> design blueprints and Star Fleet Technical >> Manual. Each computer is one of the main bridge >> stations; Science, Engineering, Weapons, Navigation, >> Communications etc. >> >> I have read through most of the book and it is >> suggested that the programme could be written in >> Fortran, Basic or Machine Code - depending on the >> choice of the programmer. I have never seen or >> heard of this programme running. Has anyone else >> come across it? >> >> Alan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 16:09:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Where have all the Selectrics gone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030602210850.80286.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > This reminds me,... > > Somewhere I have an electronic tyewriter, It's portable, battery operated > (!), and has a Centroinics port on the side so you can use it as a > printer. I think the plotter mechanism for the workslate was also battery powered. > The mechanism? A wide-carriage (8" or so) version of that little > ballpoint pen plotter that we discussed recently, you know the > CBM1520/CGP115/etc one). Nice. > One odd pen i have for it once contained > white-out type correction fluid and and could be used to erase characters > from the output (!). Wow! That'd be a cool pen to have. You could put colored paper in the mechanism and use it for "white" (if it didn't flake off). -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 16:19:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Teletype In-Reply-To: from "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" at Jun 2, 3 09:55:39 pm Message-ID: > Whenever I type anything I just get a left-arrow. I am blaming the > 1818-23/-21 for this. Shouldn't I? Maybe. Does the Model 33 work correctly when switched to 'local'? If not, then you certainly have problems in the Teletype. If it does work in 'local' mode, then you might still have problems in the Teletype, but problems with the interface are also possible. > > OK; current loop. > > Would this explain a resistor (14 Ohm, big) in the slot of the KSR would Are you sure it's 14 ohms? I remember a multi-tapped power resistor with one tap being about 1400 ohms in the standard current loop electronics for the Model 33. > get extremely hot when off this loop? Also; Hans Pufal, I would be most And I think it does run hot. When switched to local, the teletype is _still_ a current loop device, but the transmitter (keyboard contacts), receiver (the selector magnet driver -- the little module with 2 transsitors in the Teletype electronics chassis) and a 'local' power supply (which includes that resistor) are all in series. A current loop, but one entirely inside the Teletype Model 33. -tony From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Jun 2 16:20:01 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! Message-ID: Over the weekend, a thought has been taking shape inside my head: What if we made a Grand Unified Union of Computing Collectors? Okay, GUUCC doesn't pronounce well. "Geeewkhkh". (shudder) How about Collector's International Association... Erm, nope. ;) International Computer Artifact Preservation Society! ICAPS sounds good. Or, if you totally disagree with it all, send a suggestion. OK, www.ipacs.org. What should it contain? -A member's directory with all the computers he/she owns -A directory of computers -A knowledge base revolving around all of the computers. For example, a user should be able to: Search for "6-611" 1 Machine found. Siemens 6-611 (198?) 1 Owner found. Tore S Bekkedal One would then click the entry link, and open up a window with pictures and specs etc, and there would be interesting links regarding that machine, downloadable boot images, etc, etc. If one clicked the owner, one would see other machines in his collection. There should also be a "Market" where people could exchange spares, and machines etc. Also an "Opportunities" "Map" where you could see pickup opportunities? Companies should be able to "Donate" to the organization whereupon an entry would appear on the "map". IPACS would also allow for sharing of storage space, people splitting the bill for major warehouses? Any suggestions, alterations, criticism, etc, etc, most welcome! -Tore "Why O why must I always write an interesting quote below my name? Can't I write something about toenails? Or are they interesting as well?" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 16:25:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Where have all the Selectrics gone? In-Reply-To: <20030602210850.80286.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 2, 3 02:08:50 pm Message-ID: > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > This reminds me,... > > > > Somewhere I have an electronic tyewriter, It's portable, battery operated > > (!), and has a Centroinics port on the side so you can use it as a > > printer. > > I think the plotter mechanism for the workslate was also battery powered. > > > The mechanism? A wide-carriage (8" or so) version of that little > > ballpoint pen plotter that we discussed recently, you know the > > CBM1520/CGP115/etc one). > > Nice. Well, the print quality wasn't as good as a 'real' typewriter, on the other hand this thing is pretty light, and IIRC there's a mode for drawing pie charts, etc (!) which are not easy to draw on a normal typewriter. It's an interesting toy, I guess. But I'll stick to my real, mechanical, manual typewriter for filling in forms, and the laserprinter for word processing :-) > > > One odd pen i have for it once contained > > white-out type correction fluid and and could be used to erase characters > > from the output (!). > > Wow! That'd be a cool pen to have. You could put colored paper in the I'm pretty sure it's long since dead, and I have no idea where you'd get a replacement. IIRC, there were 2 tubes of pens that came with the unit -- one had the conventional black, blue, green, red ones, and the other had the correction pen and 3 others (possibly a special one to write over the correction fluid?) The dust cover for this unit had clips inside to hold 2 tubes of pens, I think. Of course I've opeened it up. I think almost all the work is done by a 64 pin 6803-type microcontroller. There are also some power driver circuits for the stepper motors, etc. Not much else inside. > mechanism and use it for "white" (if it didn't flake off). I don't think it was as fine a tip as the normal pens. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 16:35:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: from "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" at Jun 2, 3 11:19:33 pm Message-ID: > Over the weekend, a thought has been taking shape inside my head: > > What if we made a Grand Unified Union of Computing Collectors? Okay, GUUCC > doesn't pronounce well. "Geeewkhkh". (shudder) How about Collector's > International Association... Erm, nope. ;) International Computer Artifact > Preservation Society! ICAPS sounds good. Or, if you totally disagree with > it all, send a suggestion. > > OK, www.ipacs.org. What should it contain? > > -A member's directory with all the computers he/she owns My first worry about this is that some machines are now quite valuable (e.g. on E-bay), and having a public list of owners might attract the wrong sort of attention... There are a few machines that I own that I will not _publically_ admit to owning (not even on this list), altough it's sometimes fairly obvious that I've at least worked on one. I know of other collectors who feel likewise about their rarer artefacts. > One would then click the entry link, and open up a window with pictures Thus ruling out all peopls who don't have digital cameras or scanners... > IPACS would also allow for sharing of storage space, people splitting the > bill for major warehouses? Does this need to be formalised in this way. If 2 collectors are going to share storage space, I guess they must live pretty close together and therefore know each other anyway. -tony From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jun 2 16:40:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:04 2005 Subject: Where have all the Selectrics gone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Somewhere I have an electronic tyewriter, It's portable, battery operated > (!), and has a Centroinics port on the side so you can use it as a > printer. The mechanism? A wide-carriage (8" or so) version of that little > ballpoint pen plotter that we discussed recently, you know the > CBM1520/CGP115/etc one). One odd pen i have for it once contained > white-out type correction fluid and and could be used to erase characters > from the output (!). I had one like this - by a company called Silver-Reed. It was fine if you liked everything to look like it was plotted - as opposed to typewritten. And, the little pens tended to 'weep' and leave random blobs of ink and streaky smears. But it was Cool to watch it work, especially when hooked up to my old Kaypro 2. Cheers John From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jun 2 16:44:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: ICAPS (Re: Collectors worldwide, UNITE!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > OK, www.ipacs.org. What should it contain? > > -A member's directory with all the computers he/she owns > -A directory of computers > -A knowledge base revolving around all of the computers. Hmm. This actually does sound good. It *could* help us prevent silly things like knowledge from getting lost, in a somewhat more organized form... --f From CyndeM at vulcan.com Mon Jun 2 17:10:01 2003 From: CyndeM at vulcan.com (Cynde Moya) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! Message-ID: This does sound good. Design the database using ISO/IEC 11179, Metadata Standard. Then the records can be exchanged & understood by many systems. Then the records can either be entered by one/one group of people. Or people can self-register their computers, pictures, etc. Problem with having one person do it: time and money. Problem with self-registration : how to motivate collectors to register their stuff? Why bother? The one Internet tool that I've seen that really has people using, strategizing, and making complete registrations on is eBay. Sellers are motivated to have their things well-placed and carefully indexed so that they can be found by prospective buyers. Well, that's not entirely true. Computer collector websites are often very very cool; full of photos, scanned documents, lists of possessions, tips, stories, and other exotica. And to find those, I don't need a database, I need Google. Cynde Moya, MLIS -----Original Message----- From: Tore Sinding Bekkedal [mailto:toresbe@ifi.uio.no] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 2:20 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! Over the weekend, a thought has been taking shape inside my head: What if we made a Grand Unified Union of Computing Collectors? Okay, GUUCC doesn't pronounce well. "Geeewkhkh". (shudder) How about Collector's International Association... Erm, nope. ;) International Computer Artifact Preservation Society! ICAPS sounds good. Or, if you totally disagree with it all, send a suggestion. OK, www.ipacs.org. What should it contain? -A member's directory with all the computers he/she owns -A directory of computers -A knowledge base revolving around all of the computers. For example, a user should be able to: Search for "6-611" 1 Machine found. Siemens 6-611 (198?) 1 Owner found. Tore S Bekkedal One would then click the entry link, and open up a window with pictures and specs etc, and there would be interesting links regarding that machine, downloadable boot images, etc, etc. If one clicked the owner, one would see other machines in his collection. There should also be a "Market" where people could exchange spares, and machines etc. Also an "Opportunities" "Map" where you could see pickup opportunities? Companies should be able to "Donate" to the organization whereupon an entry would appear on the "map". IPACS would also allow for sharing of storage space, people splitting the bill for major warehouses? Any suggestions, alterations, criticism, etc, etc, most welcome! -Tore "Why O why must I always write an interesting quote below my name? Can't I write something about toenails? Or are they interesting as well?" From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jun 2 17:26:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306021825.30746.jcwren@jcwren.com> What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? That's seems pretty wierd. --John On Monday 02 June 2003 17:28 pm, Tony Duell wrote: > > Over the weekend, a thought has been taking shape inside my head: > > > > What if we made a Grand Unified Union of Computing Collectors? Okay, > > GUUCC doesn't pronounce well. "Geeewkhkh". (shudder) How about > > Collector's International Association... Erm, nope. ;) International > > Computer Artifact Preservation Society! ICAPS sounds good. Or, if you > > totally disagree with it all, send a suggestion. > > > > OK, www.ipacs.org. What should it contain? > > > > -A member's directory with all the computers he/she owns > > My first worry about this is that some machines are now quite valuable > (e.g. on E-bay), and having a public list of owners might attract the > wrong sort of attention... > > There are a few machines that I own that I will not _publically_ admit to > owning (not even on this list), altough it's sometimes fairly obvious > that I've at least worked on one. I know of other collectors who feel > likewise about their rarer artefacts. > > > One would then click the entry link, and open up a window with pictures > > Thus ruling out all peopls who don't have digital cameras or scanners... > > > IPACS would also allow for sharing of storage space, people splitting the > > bill for major warehouses? > > Does this need to be formalised in this way. If 2 collectors are going to > share storage space, I guess they must live pretty close together and > therefore know each other anyway. > > -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jun 2 17:35:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! References: <200306021825.30746.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <025f01c32957$22994730$3e08dd40@oemcomputer> That sounded strange to me also, I would be proud to tell anyone about my collection. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Wren" To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? That's seems > pretty wierd. > > --John > > On Monday 02 June 2003 17:28 pm, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Over the weekend, a thought has been taking shape inside my head: > > > > > > What if we made a Grand Unified Union of Computing Collectors? Okay, > > > GUUCC doesn't pronounce well. "Geeewkhkh". (shudder) How about > > > Collector's International Association... Erm, nope. ;) International > > > Computer Artifact Preservation Society! ICAPS sounds good. Or, if you > > > totally disagree with it all, send a suggestion. > > > > > > OK, www.ipacs.org. What should it contain? > > > > > > -A member's directory with all the computers he/she owns > > > > My first worry about this is that some machines are now quite valuable > > (e.g. on E-bay), and having a public list of owners might attract the > > wrong sort of attention... > > > > There are a few machines that I own that I will not _publically_ admit to > > owning (not even on this list), altough it's sometimes fairly obvious > > that I've at least worked on one. I know of other collectors who feel > > likewise about their rarer artefacts. > > > > > One would then click the entry link, and open up a window with pictures > > > > Thus ruling out all peopls who don't have digital cameras or scanners... > > > > > IPACS would also allow for sharing of storage space, people splitting the > > > bill for major warehouses? > > > > Does this need to be formalised in this way. If 2 collectors are going to > > share storage space, I guess they must live pretty close together and > > therefore know each other anyway. > > > > -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 2 17:45:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: HP 80 Series Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030602184600.4c3f11d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:29 PM 6/2/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All, > >> Yes a FEW of the HP-IB hard drives. The only drives that would work >>without specail support were the HP 9133/9134 that had a apecial option >>that made the disk look like three HP 9895 8" floppy dirves. There is a... >Sounds like it is a bit of a non-starter... I think so. > >>That's taken me deeper into the HP-IB bus operation and I've had to repair >>a couple of HP 59401 HP-IB Bus Analyzers for use with that. (Anybody got a >>manual for these?) > >I certainly have an operations manual, it may include some service bits and >pieces. I'll take a look when I get home to the UK. I'd like get a copy if you have it. I'm running into a couple of oddities when I try to operate it. It's working but not the way that I expected and I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or what. > >I have a couple of these bus analysers at home, I used them in the initial >investigations for the CS80 reader. You can use them to slow down the bus >traffic on an HPIB system either to 2 transactions a second or single step. >I tried using one to investigate the traffic between a 9000 300 machine and >a disk drive but as soon as you slow the bus down the 300 series machine >complains that the disk has timess out. Steve Robertson ran into the same problem when he tried to use it to study the disk operation as part of writing an OS for the HP 1000. He did get some usefull info but only 32 bytes of it! > >Luckily I have an old HP 3562 spectrum analyser than interfaces to CS80 / >AMIGO disks. You can single step though commands with no timeout problems >using it as the disk controller. > >In the end though useful the 59401 is somewhat limited in what it can do. >With the long command sequences that I was examining I ended up having to >write down each octal (Yes, OCTAL - the I lost count of the number of times >that I accidentally read the numbers as hex....) data packet as it appeared >on the bus and then go back and try to decode what it all meant. >The bus analyser also occasionally dropped the first byte of information >being sent back by the HPIB disk drive. > >I'm currently investigating another option. >NI make a GPIB+ card (ISA or PCI) that acts as both a GPIB controller and a >GPIB analyser. In theory this can be set up to 'sniff' the GPIB bus and >generate a log file of each GPIB bus event (with a 50 ns time resolution). >The log can be as long as you want so no more laboriously copying down octal >codes. I'll let you know how I get on. I have (had?) a card like that but NI no longer supports it and I haven't been able to find any docs or software for it. I have something else that might be usefull. It's Bus Analyzer module made by HP that works with one of their logic analyzers. You plug the LA pods directly into it (no wire leads) and it has sockets for RS-232, HP-IB and one or two other standard interfaces. With it you can use a LA to grab the data, disaasemble it (if you have the the disassembler), save it, send it to a computer, etc. I've never tried to use it since I don't have the LA (HP 1631 IIRC) that it works with. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 2 17:48:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: <20030602143215.GA6007@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > The more important question is what machine and OS was used to write > the disk packs? The RK05 needs a UNIBUS or OMNIBUS controller, so at > least PDP-8, PDP-11 or a VAX comes in question. The RM05 is a MASSBUS > drive. MASSBUS (e.g. via a UNIBUS - MASSBUS controller) can be found > on larger PDP-11s, VAXen and PDP-10 / DECSYSTEM 10 / 20 machines. Knowing Atari, there tapes were most definitely written on a PDP-11 system. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Jun 2 17:49:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! Message-ID: <200306022248.h52MmdRS006035@io.crash.com> J.C. Wren wrote: . > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? That's > seems pretty wierd. I can imagine such a circumstance. Wasn't an Enigma device stolen from a museum or collection not too long ago? Weren't the US$10,000+ sales of some Apple I's widely publicized? Some folks might not want to play the odds when publishing their holdings, if they're lucky enough to have some truly rare objects. --Steve. smj(at)spamfree.crash.com (lose spamfree to get through, m'kay?) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 2 17:54:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: <200306021825.30746.jcwren@jcwren.com> from "J.C. Wren" at Jun 2, 3 06:25:30 pm Message-ID: > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? That's seems > pretty wierd. MAchines that are _extremely_ rare spring to mind. Perhaps machines that exist as prototypes only, ones that were never officially sold, things like that. How many people would publically claim to own a PERQ 3a, a PERQ T4, an HP95C, a DAP, a 370/E (which is not an IBM machine!) or something like that? -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 2 17:55:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, chris wrote: > I just aquired (won on ebay, totally forgot I bid on it), a pretty neat > little Apple item I never knew existed. > > Its an RGB -> NTSC modulator for the Apple IIc. It also came with a > game/TV switch box, but I don't know if that was originally part of the > package, or just a seperate item that was included in the auction. > > I've never seen this little device before, and had no idea it existed. > There doesn't seem to be too much about it online. If this is what I think it is, it came with every new Apple //c. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 2 18:00:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Cynde Moya wrote: > The one Internet tool that I've seen that really has people using, > strategizing, and making complete registrations on is eBay. Sellers are > motivated to have their things well-placed and carefully indexed so that > they can be found by prospective buyers. Only to be lost 30 days later... :( > Well, that's not entirely true. Computer collector websites are often > very very cool; full of photos, scanned documents, lists of possessions, > tips, stories, and other exotica. And to find those, I don't need a > database, I need Google. The idea is to create a uniform standard by which everyone would have to conform. Good luck ;/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 2 18:16:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: <200306022315.QAA17040@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> Whenever I type anything I just get a left-arrow. I am blaming the >> 1818-23/-21 for this. Shouldn't I? > >Maybe. Does the Model 33 work correctly when switched to 'local'? If not, >then you certainly have problems in the Teletype. If it does work in >'local' mode, then you might still have problems in the Teletype, but >problems with the interface are also possible. Hi It is also possible that he has the wrong speed gears/motor. A 60Hz motor will run in local with 50Hz connected but the Baud rate to the outside will be wrong. Dwight > >> >> OK; current loop. >> >> Would this explain a resistor (14 Ohm, big) in the slot of the KSR would > >Are you sure it's 14 ohms? I remember a multi-tapped power resistor with one >tap being about 1400 ohms in the standard current loop electronics for >the Model 33. > >> get extremely hot when off this loop? Also; Hans Pufal, I would be most > >And I think it does run hot. When switched to local, the teletype is >_still_ a current loop device, but the transmitter (keyboard contacts), >receiver (the selector magnet driver -- the little module with 2 >transsitors in the Teletype electronics chassis) and a 'local' power >supply (which includes that resistor) are all in series. A current loop, >but one entirely inside the Teletype Model 33. > >-tony From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jun 2 18:20:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > The more important question is what machine and OS was used to write > > the disk packs? The RK05 needs a UNIBUS or OMNIBUS controller, so at > > least PDP-8, PDP-11 or a VAX comes in question. The RM05 is a MASSBUS > > drive. MASSBUS (e.g. via a UNIBUS - MASSBUS controller) can be found > > on larger PDP-11s, VAXen and PDP-10 / DECSYSTEM 10 / 20 machines. > > Knowing Atari, there tapes were most definitely written on a PDP-11 > system. Or a VAX, since there are numerous mentions of the VAX systems being used by Atari. Of course, we're not talking about /tapes/, we're talking about RM05 disk packs! I just hope whoever ends up trying to read the disk packs knows what they're doing. It'd be a real shame if they managed to crash the drives and ruin the disk packs. -brian. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Jun 2 18:32:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: <200306021825.30746.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030602193014.05b60da0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? a PC ? At 06:25 PM 6/2/03 -0400, you wrote: > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to > owning? That's seems >pretty wierd. > > --John > >On Monday 02 June 2003 17:28 pm, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Over the weekend, a thought has been taking shape inside my head: > > > > > > What if we made a Grand Unified Union of Computing Collectors? Okay, > > > GUUCC doesn't pronounce well. "Geeewkhkh". (shudder) How about > > > Collector's International Association... Erm, nope. ;) International > > > Computer Artifact Preservation Society! ICAPS sounds good. Or, if you > > > totally disagree with it all, send a suggestion. > > > > > > OK, www.ipacs.org. What should it contain? > > > > > > -A member's directory with all the computers he/she owns > > > > My first worry about this is that some machines are now quite valuable > > (e.g. on E-bay), and having a public list of owners might attract the > > wrong sort of attention... > > > > There are a few machines that I own that I will not _publically_ admit to > > owning (not even on this list), altough it's sometimes fairly obvious > > that I've at least worked on one. I know of other collectors who feel > > likewise about their rarer artefacts. > > > > > One would then click the entry link, and open up a window with pictures > > > > Thus ruling out all peopls who don't have digital cameras or scanners... > > > > > IPACS would also allow for sharing of storage space, people splitting the > > > bill for major warehouses? > > > > Does this need to be formalised in this way. If 2 collectors are going to > > share storage space, I guess they must live pretty close together and > > therefore know each other anyway. > > > > -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 2 18:36:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: <200306022248.h52MmdRS006035@io.crash.com> Message-ID: > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? A Packard Bell? An e-machine? A Dell? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 2 18:45:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! Message-ID: <200306022344.QAA17062@clulw009.amd.com> How about a Video Brain Really form someone other than Dwight >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? > > >a PC ? > > > > ---snip--- From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jun 2 19:17:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J Message-ID: <014101c32965$5345e0b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Does anyone have a couple (2) of the AMP 10 pin connectors (with unused pins) used with the DLV-11J 4 port serial I/O boards or know where I could purchase them? What I actually need is a RS232 cable DB25 to AMP 10 ?, but I am willing to make the DB25 part myself, something I've done zillions of times. I am currently working on bringing up my "new" PDP-11/23 that I recently picked up. This chassis, once verified OK, will be used as a test bed to check out the bunch of QBUS boards I have, including CPU's, memory, and some I/O, mostly serial. Eventually I hope to bring up a 11/53 like the one Jonathan Engdhal built. Thanks in advance! Stuart Johnson From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 2 20:24:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel needs RK05 drive on east coast Message-ID: <200306030125.h531PFoT026962@spies.com> Knowing Atari, there tapes were most definitely written on a PDP-11 system. == They are discs, not tapes. Atari switched from development on PDP-11's (an 11/60 that actually was at Weird Stuff when they were next door..) to a VAX in the early 80's. They are probably the RM05 packs from KIM:: -- I don't know about you, but I would be pretty surprised if Curt is going to find someone willing to put an unknown 12 platter pack in their RM05. I dont think Scopus or any of the disc inspection companies are even around any more. I have several dozen of those same vintage packs that I'm terrified to even try to put in a drive (not for a VAX..) From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 2 20:28:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! Message-ID: <200306030130.h531U0q8027490@spies.com> How many people would publically claim to own a PERQ 3a, a PERQ T4, an HP95C, a DAP, a 370/E (which is not an IBM machine!) or something like that? == What's the point of having cool stuff if you can't say you have it? :-) I don't make a secret of the Xerox protos that I have. On the other hand there aren't a lot of people who know where they actually ARE.. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jun 2 20:40:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: <200306030130.h531U0q8027490@spies.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > I don't make a secret of the Xerox protos that I have. On the other hand > there aren't a lot of people who know where they actually ARE.. What, you have photocopies of famous old boxes laying around? *grin* :) --f From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jun 2 21:21:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? That's > > seems pretty wierd. > > MAchines that are _extremely_ rare spring to mind. Perhaps machines that > exist as prototypes only, ones that were never officially sold, things > like that. Or, something that is *highly* sought after by dealers... > How many people would publically claim to own a PERQ 3a, a PERQ T4, an > HP95C, a DAP, a 370/E (which is not an IBM machine!) or something like > that? Heck, I'm beginning to regret ever mentioning that I'm gathering up JC80 parts (still searching, too...) I've had a number of commercial dealer type people contact me with the wild idea that I don't want the parts that I've been gathering up for the last 10 years, and would be happy to just give them away so they could make a lot of money from them (actually, there isn't a lot of money to be made from them these days, but try telling that to some dealers...) Of course, I have no intentions on getting rid of my JC80 parts (though I might trade some with someone who has other parts if it would help me complete a system), as those things are probably more difficult to obtain than an 11/750 or 11/780, and even harder to make complete. Some of the stories are pretty funny, but I don't want to post them to the list, as the archives are publicly available ;) -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 21:47:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030603024558.22320.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > What kind of machine could one possibly not admit to owning? > > A Packard Bell? > An e-machine? > A Dell? A Gateway 2000? Or... (he says, ducking for cover)... (for the rabid Commodore fanatics) An Atari? (for the rabid Atari fanatics) A Commodore PET/VIC/64/Amiga/etc? (for the rabid Macintosh fanatics) Anything but a Mac? (for the rabid DOS fanatics) Anything with sound. And color. And enough RAM. And... -ethan From yakowenk at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 22:17:00 2003 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components Message-ID: <20030603031645.52791.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Anybody want to offer advice on reforming filter caps? I'm planning to power up some stuff that hasn't seen voltage in a long time. My plan is to put several low-wattage light-bulbs in series with the thing, to limit the amount of current it will get, and hopefully allow those old caps to reform instead of, say, exploding in my face. It would be better to put the light bulbs (or whatever kind of resistor) in series with the caps themselves on the secondary side of the transformer, right? But if I start digging into the thing's innards like that, there is a real risk that I'll damage it more than an exploding cap would. (In one item, there is a picture tube nearby, and I'm sometimes clumsy...) Now the questions: Could putting the light-bulbs (or whatever) in series on the primary side of the transformer actually produce the desired effect? IIRC, a step-down transformer divides the voltage but multiplies the current. So I'd have to limit the current on the primary side that much more to keep the secondary current down, right? Also, what kinds of things could be damaged by getting less voltage than they were designed for? I could imagine hard disks spinning too little to lift the heads from the surface, for instance. (This is moot, because there are no hard disks in any of the equipment I'm looking at.) How about CRT's? Could too little deflection make the beam hit something it shouldn't? Anything else? Thanks, Bill. From tarsi at binhost.com Tue Jun 3 01:29:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306030128.19323@210> My friend Jpaul and I have already done something pretty close to this. www.computershelter.org It's been received with a less-than-stellar response from the community, though. Seems people just don't have the time and effort to look up all their machine info...including myself. Tarsi On Monday 02 June 2003 16:19, Tore Sinding Bekkedal scribbled: > Over the weekend, a thought has been taking shape inside my head: > > What if we made a Grand Unified Union of Computing Collectors? Okay, GUUCC > doesn't pronounce well. "Geeewkhkh". (shudder) How about Collector's > International Association... Erm, nope. ;) International Computer Artifact > Preservation Society! ICAPS sounds good. Or, if you totally disagree with > it all, send a suggestion. From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Jun 3 02:26:01 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! In-Reply-To: <200306030130.h531U0q8027490@spies.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Al Kossow > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:30 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Collectors worldwide, UNITE! > > > How many people would publically claim to own a PERQ 3a, a PERQ T4, an > HP95C, a DAP, a 370/E (which is not an IBM machine!) or something > like that? I will. I own a least a few of each of those. No big deal. E. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jun 3 03:06:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: <014101c32965$5345e0b0$0200a8c0@cosmo>; from ssj152@charter.net on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:16:05 CEST References: <014101c32965$5345e0b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <20030603085312.I256040@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.03 02:16 Stuart Johnson wrote: > Does anyone have a couple (2) of the AMP 10 pin connectors (with > unused pins) used with the DLV-11J 4 port serial I/O boards or > know where I could purchase them? Aren't this very common 10 pin IDC connectors? At least on my DLV-11J clone from Sigma Systems. I used the usual 10 pin crimp connectors for ribbon cable to make the cables. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mike at ambientdesign.com Tue Jun 3 08:06:00 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <001101c32916$fe895be0$3d00a8c0@falco> > I am having trouble on my toshiba laptop 210CT the screen goes dark when i am > working on it i then pull the screen down towards me the back up and the > screen then goes back to normal can you help thanks paul tel 020 8838 4943 I had a laptop (Philips) with this problem. The fault is probably in the wires that run to the backlight. If these are separate to the data cabling (probably printed ribbon) it's possible (though tricky) to replace the backlight wires, though you'd have to use something very flexible. Of course, it could be any number of other problems, but I think the actual wiring is the most likely source of the problem. Mike. From dwalker at syncretic.com Tue Jun 3 08:07:54 2003 From: dwalker at syncretic.com (dwalker@syncretic.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Atari PC-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all, I'm new to the list and have tons of old hardware (well...not tons...but too much if you talk to my wife). Anyway, in the ever present hunt to expand my collection I've recently taken up the cause of collecting Atari PC stuff with particular attention being paid to the PC-1. I'm *really* looking for the Atari EGA monitor as well as the external harddisk but would be happy with the external 3.5 disk as well. Other than that I've only recently signed up on the list and I love the content so far. -- Damond Walker Syncretic Software, Inc. (302) 762-2600 x213 From jontitus at attbi.com Tue Jun 3 08:09:18 2003 From: jontitus at attbi.com (Jon Titus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Where have all the Selectrics gone? Message-ID: My Selectric III went in the local metal-recycle bin quite a few years ago. It was getting sticky and needed a thorough cleaning. The local IBM service center wanted $125 just to take a look at it, so enough was enough. I have not used a typewriter in the last 8 or so years, and don't miss it. I had a second Selectric my brother gave me, but during a move, one of the cast-metal parts gave up the ghost. It seemed too expensive to get it replaced, so it, too, went to the metal recycle bin. I suspect many other typewriters, Selectrics et al., met the same fate. My mother, 89, still uses a manual typewriter, but her sight is failing and she has a hard time getting the right roy of keys. Sometimes we have to sit at the keyboard and "decipher" her notes. She recently found a typewriter repair shop on Long Island (NY) that would repair and clean her manual unit. She got new type and a cleaned unit for about $85. That's a deal. Jon Jon Titus 36 Sunset Drive Milford, MA 01757-1362 USA Phone: +1-508-478-8040 E-mail: jontitus@attbi.com Member, National Association of Science Writers From mike at ambientdesign.com Tue Jun 3 08:10:41 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components References: <20030603031645.52791.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c32981$ea1e2530$3d00a8c0@falco> Hi Bill (and others...) This is just my opinion, but... the way I'd do this is remove the caps, and charge them gradually externally. They should be marked with a maximum voltage; I'd work my way up to that gradually, using a series resistor (maybe a light bulb, probably something with higher resistance though) to allow it to slowly approach peak voltage each time. e.g. for a 100V cap, I might gradually charge it to 20V first, then 50, then 75, then 100. Of course, to do that you'd probably have to remove the caps, which might not be easy. But at least if they do go BANG, they won't do any damage to the machine they're from. I've seen how much damage an electrolytic capacitor 'can' does to items it collides with, when the cap suffers sudden catastrophic failure. Is it an option to just replace the old caps with new ones? On a side-note - I just powered up two unknown-condition Apple //es and a //e monitor. One of the //es and the monitor went BANG and let out smoke on startup - what is it with Apple and AC filter capacitors? Both the machine and the monitor continued to run fine after the filter caps died, of course. I probably should have been a bit more careful about starting the machines up, but generally I find that on that sort of gear, the only caps that suffer catastrophic failure are those filter caps, and they do no damage and are easy to replace. So my filter cap troubleshooting procedure has degraded to 'plug it in, if the caps go bang, they're bad and need to be replaced'. What fun! Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Yakowenko" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 3:16 PM Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components > Anybody want to offer advice on reforming filter > caps? I'm planning to power up some stuff that > hasn't seen voltage in a long time. My plan is > to put several low-wattage light-bulbs in series > with the thing, to limit the amount of current it > will get, and hopefully allow those old caps > to reform instead of, say, exploding in my face. > > It would be better to put the light bulbs (or > whatever kind of resistor) in series with the > caps themselves on the secondary side of the > transformer, right? But if I start digging into > the thing's innards like that, there is a real > risk that I'll damage it more than an exploding > cap would. (In one item, there is a picture > tube nearby, and I'm sometimes clumsy...) > > Now the questions: > > Could putting the light-bulbs (or whatever) in > series on the primary side of the transformer > actually produce the desired effect? IIRC, a > step-down transformer divides the voltage but > multiplies the current. So I'd have to limit the > current on the primary side that much more to > keep the secondary current down, right? > > Also, what kinds of things could be damaged by > getting less voltage than they were designed for? > I could imagine hard disks spinning too little to > lift the heads from the surface, for instance. > (This is moot, because there are no hard disks > in any of the equipment I'm looking at.) How > about CRT's? Could too little deflection make > the beam hit something it shouldn't? Anything > else? > > Thanks, > Bill. From elec37 at york.ac.uk Tue Jun 3 08:12:05 2003 From: elec37 at york.ac.uk (Computer Recycling) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Retro printer ribbons up for grabs Message-ID: <3EDC6D11.2060702@york.ac.uk> Hi all, I'm new here - so I hope I'm not breaching any etiquette by posting this. I have a couple of new boxed ribbons for the following printer list... Binder 1550, 8510, 8510A C.Itoh 1550, 8510, 8510A, Prowriter 7500 DEC CLA 45-14602, LA50 HP 85 Leading Edge Prowriter 2-1550 8150AP NCR 6411 NEC PC 8023A/B/C Toshiba P1150, PA7251, PA7252 These are FREE (via an SAE to the UK). If you have any of the above equipment and are interested, please email me directly at elec37@york.ac.uk. Cheers now, Ben ~~~ Computer Recycling Project University of York, UK www.comprec.org.uk From Paul.HILLS at uk.landisgyr.com Tue Jun 3 08:13:30 2003 From: Paul.HILLS at uk.landisgyr.com (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Jupiter Computer (No Not the ACE) Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD3901C089DC@ohm1003a.uk.landisgyr.com> Sorry, I can't help you with your identification, but must point out that it can't be MUCH earlier than the Jupiter Ace, since both the Ace and the MC68010 processor were released in 1983, so the computer you have can be at most a few months earlier, and probably more recent since the Jupiter Ace ran for a shorter time than the 68010! Some CAD stations have multiple joysticks, also video editing consoles, or even studio music production equipment. Could it be something like that? Is there any clue from the location you found it (on the kerbside outside what building???). You may get more clues if you switch it on and see what comes up on the monitor! Good luck paul -----Original Message----- From: peter tremewen [mailto:ptremewe@bigpond.net.au] Sent: 01 June 2003 22:18 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Jupiter Computer (No Not the ACE) Hi all, I have in my hands a "Jupiter" computer and am wondering if you can offer any info on it? It is not the Jupiter ACE home computer, but a much earlier very large and obviously fairly old rack mounted system. The computer is based on the 68010 CPU. I can't determine how much memory it has on board, but there are more than several banks of 4164 mem chips which if I remember is a 64kbit dynamic Ram device. The huge keyboard is attached via a missing multipair cable and has two joysticks on either side. The monitor has separate RGB and Sync cables, each of which are generated using separate discrete component boards in the chassis. Inside the chassis are two huge Vertex hard drives, and a 3.5 in floppy, each connected to their discrete driver boards, Z80 based. On the front of the computer is "Jupiter". Model number is J12CHAS and Man date is "514". It was manufactured in Berkeley C.A. USA. The serial number is "Jup.S.N. 12C-1025-AA". I basically found it all on a curbside and couldn't resist adding it too my rather small but now growing collection. If you need any further info to help with identification let me know, I'll see what I more I can get from the chassis. Maybe I'm insane and have just picked up what most would consider total junk, but I personally think that systems such as this are worth preserving. I haven't been brave enough to switch the damn thing on yet, with all that discrete hardware it will probably double my power bill with about a minutes use. However I love all this old stuff, and worse comes to worse at least their are some interesting discrete components in it. If you need or would like a photo let me know, I'm a freelance photographer and will take a few shots anyway, so when I do I'll pass some scans on to you. Peter T. From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 3 08:48:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay References: <021801c32619$8ae27280$0200a8c0@cosmo> <200306020131.VAA1302273@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200306031332.JAA1513955@shell.TheWorld.com> >Is there an actual Qbus - or something else? It certainly >sounds like a Qbus! No, the CPU board, memory and terminal interface board are a unit of 3 boards connected together. The disk interface is a separate board. >But without extra memory, let alone an MMU, there >also can't be a VM: either? >There is no MMU, which the VM handler requires. >Also, I presume there is no possibility of a hard drive? I would not say no possibility, since I'm sure someone with the skill could hack something together, even if it was to take replace the floppy interface board with something that looked like a floppy to the CPU, but was actually a hard drive. But, if you are asking about any designed-in way of expanding with a hard drive -- no. The PDT is a bounded system * (* Bounded system - a system which would be usable if it could be expanded, but can't because it is bounded). >Also, the Qbus is probably limited and can't actually >have any additional boards? There is no bus. The boards don't plug in anyplace, they are simply attached back-to-back (with the exception of the floppy interface board, which has a wire/ribbon cable (? - it has been awhile since I opened one up) connecting it. >How many DL ports are available? One Console port (standard CSR/Vector), three async serial ports (I forget which range they are -- I can check), one printer port, and one modem port which is either sync or async >Finally, my guess is that SIMH could emulate the PDT-11/150 >since all that would be required is the PD.SYS device driver. >But I doubt that there is much of a reason to do so! To accurately emulate it, someone would need to dump the ROM code and use it to process the RT requests. Another gotcha in the PDT is the slooowwwww IOpage accesses... If you do a word access, it takes 90ms (if I remember correctly), but a byte access takes 180ms. Also, there is something about read-modify-write instructions, you don't want to use lots of them on the PDT in interrupt code... I seem to remember code somewhere which has PDT conditionals to govern whether the code uses MOVs or BISs, the latter being avoided on the PDT. Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 3 08:49:35 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay Message-ID: <200306031336.JAA1413019@shell.TheWorld.com> >The PDT-11/150 was reportedly available with one or two RX01 >drives, and three serial ports with another three optional. I've >only seen the one I own, which has both drives and six ports. >There're no other expansion options that I can recall. I've never seen one with only one drive, but I have seen some which didn't have the extra 3-line option. >In fact it's sitting in the dining room with a VT100 waiting to >be powered up to check some 8" floppies I received a while back. >I'm in the process of bringing up a VAX 4000/500 I recently >received and it'd be a hoot to connect the PDT to it. Remember, after powering it on, you type two '@' to autobaud and boot the unit. >Did RT-11 ever include DECnet support? Probably so, but as of >what version? I don't recall seeing mention of it with whatever >version came with the PDT, and I'd be amazed if the PDT could >support it... RT never came with DECnet support... DECnet was, however, available for it as a 'layered product'. The DECnet available for RT was Phase III, asynch/sync support only. No Phase IV/Ethernet. I know of someone who actually had a PDT running RT on the DEC internal network at one point... Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 3 08:50:58 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay Message-ID: <200306031337.JAA1515536@shell.TheWorld.com> >I should hedge my bets here: There is no Qbus backplane in the >PDT-11/150. There are some stacking connectors between two dual- >height sized boards (serial ports and memory) on top and the >middle board, which carries the CPU complex. I believe the bottom >board in the stack is the floppy controller - not sure if the >console circuitry (8085 based?) is on that or the middle board. The interrupt processor on the PDT is an 8085(A)... Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 3 08:52:22 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: FA-PDT-11/150 on eBay References: <200306020543.h525hqRS002990@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <200306031340.JAA1500041@shell.TheWorld.com> >>Did RT-11 ever include DECnet support? Probably so, but as of >>what version? I don't recall seeing mention of it with whatever >>version came with the PDT, and I'd be amazed if the PDT could >>support it... > >Yes, there is DECnet for RT-11, however, I've never seen it, or heard of >anyone with a copy. It would be most interesting to play with. I think I have a copy somewhere, but it is, of course, licensed software. Somewhen about 1985 or so, while I was in the RT group, I was also a member of a team working on getting DECnet/Phase IV on RT... the project was cancelled, however... Megan From luc at e2t.be Tue Jun 3 08:53:45 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: HP64000 System In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720D0534@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD5D3@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Hi Folks, I have to do some reverse-engineering work on an old Z80 based system. Does anyone know where to find A 64650A GP Preprocessor pod and a 64853A Z80 personality module gr. Luc From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 3 08:55:14 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning Message-ID: <200306031345.JAA1426417@shell.TheWorld.com> I have a copy of the 'StarShip Simulation' and have also often thought about rendering some code... alas, not enough time... I do know that there is someone on the net who has been trying to actually build the hardware for a starship simulator and has been basing his code on the 68000... I'm not sure where his page is or if he reads CCMP. Megan From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Jun 3 09:52:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C75@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> I guess that's me! I am quite busy. In a few months (3) I have my own "PDP-11 garden house" (3,5 x 8 meters) just for PDP-11's. Then www.pdp-11.nl will see some new info. On http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj is a link to www.pdp-11.nl and to my StarShip project. Again, in a few months time, I will start new developments ... indeed time is a problem. The 'StarShip Simulation' of Dilithium Press is the Bible, but, as it should, use it for inspiration and do not follow it like a fanatic :-) - Henk. BTW. Megan, I have sent you the 68020 assembler source code of the kernel which supports task start/stop/suspend/resume and time-wait and semaphore-pend calls. Ever ported it to PDP-11? > -----Original Message----- > From: Megan [mailto:mbg@TheWorld.com] > Sent: dinsdag 3 juni 2003 15:46 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Display of first networked personal computer > game returning > > > I have a copy of the 'StarShip Simulation' and have also often > thought about rendering some code... > > alas, not enough time... > > I do know that there is someone on the net who has been trying > to actually build the hardware for a starship simulator and has > been basing his code on the 68000... I'm not sure where his page > is or if he reads CCMP. > > Megan From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Tue Jun 3 10:21:01 2003 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E47C7@INETMAIL> -----Original Message----- >Anybody want to offer advice on reforming filter >caps? I'm planning to power up some stuff that >hasn't seen voltage in a long time. My plan is >to put several low-wattage light-bulbs in series >with the thing, to limit the amount of current it >will get, and hopefully allow those old caps >to reform instead of, say, exploding in my face. >... >Now the questions: > >Could putting the light-bulbs (or whatever) in >series on the primary side of the transformer >actually produce the desired effect? IIRC, a >step-down transformer divides the voltage but >multiplies the current. So I'd have to limit the >current on the primary side that much more to >keep the secondary current down, right?> > >Also, what kinds of things could be damaged by >getting less voltage than they were designed for? >I could imagine hard disks spinning too little to >lift the heads from the surface, for instance. >(This is moot, because there are no hard disks >in any of the equipment I'm looking at.) How >about CRT's? Could too little deflection make >the beam hit something it shouldn't? Anything >else? > > Thanks, > Bill. Bill, (1) Don't use a light bulb - they have a very low resistance when cold, and will cause the inrush you're trying to avoid. The best recommendation I've seen is to use a "variac"-type variable transformer to reduce the powerline going in. Start at minimum, and turn things up slowwwwly, watching current draw. Beware gotchas like LSTTL drawing heavy current at around 2.1 volts supply. Actually, with a meter across the capacitor supply, stop at about one volt, so any semiconductors in line can't get terribly excited: if there's no apparent short as things stabilize, turn the voltage up. (2) CRTs aren't a hazard from undervoltage (I ran a sick Zenith TV on 85VAC for years using a Variac). It's overvoltage that causes X-Ray risks. Just to be safe, disconnect anything mechanical, to avoid problems like the hard-drive one you mentioned - some types of motor overheat if undervolt-ed. Bob "HW-Hacker" Maxwell How many people do you know that sawed their computer in two? From grg2 at attbi.com Tue Jun 3 10:41:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (grg2@attbi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306031540.h53Fesu75956@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, I have a DEC RL02, supposedly removed from a working system. Anybody want it? Anybody want to offe a few $$$ for the wear and tear on my back? It's a heavy beast, so expect $45 or so shipping cost in the USA. Regards, George From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jun 3 10:47:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <200306031540.h53Fesu75956@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 grg2@attbi.com wrote: > Hi, I have a DEC RL02, supposedly removed from a working system. > Anybody want it? Anybody want to offe a few $$$ for the wear and tear on my > back? > > It's a heavy beast, so expect $45 or so shipping cost > in the USA. Any info on where it's at, or if there's any cartridges for it? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 3 10:52:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components In-Reply-To: <001f01c32981$ea1e2530$3d00a8c0@falco> Message-ID: <20030603155119.25933.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike van Bokhoven wrote: > ...generally I find that on that sort of gear, the only caps that > suffer catastrophic failure are those filter caps, and they do no damage > and are easy to replace. So my filter cap troubleshooting procedure has > degraded to 'plug it in, if the caps go bang, they're bad and need to be > replaced'. I had an SMT filter cap blow in a 200MB SCSI drive... it was surprisingly loud. I powered on the PC, heard the PSU click, then, before I could shut it off... *BANG*. The machine proceded to power up as if everything was normal, including the cloud of smoke hanging over it. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 3 10:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <200306031540.h53Fesu75956@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030603155240.43836.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- grg2@attbi.com wrote: > Hi, I have a DEC RL02, supposedly removed from a working system. > Anybody want it? Anybody want to offe a few $$$ for the wear and tear on > my back? I'm sure there will be takers. > It's a heavy beast, so expect $45 or so shipping cost > in the USA. Where's it at? Any cables/terminators? -ethan From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Jun 3 10:58:01 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:05 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: This res. gets hot even when switched off, but just in the socket. I'm going to take pictures of the unit on wednesday, but a picture of the teletype with the cover on can be found at tore.nortia.no/bilder/s201002.jpg . ASCII drawings: (out of scale) ________________________ | | | | Blue slot with card that gets hot | |-- |/ | | || |_________________| || | | | |_________________|____| ____________ | | | (14 O ) | <- large resistor | | | (220ko)| <\ | (300ko)| | | | |- not sure | etc (vr) | | | | Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD5D5@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> For years I use a high-voltage DC power supply with current limiting for this. Works very fine... Only a few, weird designs, need the AC voltage to start. This is also a very safe way to repair the things (safe for the unit and the technician) gr. Luc -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 5:21 PM To: 'cctech@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components -----Original Message----- >Anybody want to offer advice on reforming filter >caps? I'm planning to power up some stuff that >hasn't seen voltage in a long time. My plan is >to put several low-wattage light-bulbs in series >with the thing, to limit the amount of current it >will get, and hopefully allow those old caps >to reform instead of, say, exploding in my face. >... >Now the questions: > >Could putting the light-bulbs (or whatever) in >series on the primary side of the transformer >actually produce the desired effect? IIRC, a >step-down transformer divides the voltage but >multiplies the current. So I'd have to limit the >current on the primary side that much more to >keep the secondary current down, right?> > >Also, what kinds of things could be damaged by >getting less voltage than they were designed for? >I could imagine hard disks spinning too little to >lift the heads from the surface, for instance. >(This is moot, because there are no hard disks >in any of the equipment I'm looking at.) How >about CRT's? Could too little deflection make >the beam hit something it shouldn't? Anything >else? > > Thanks, > Bill. Bill, (1) Don't use a light bulb - they have a very low resistance when cold, and will cause the inrush you're trying to avoid. The best recommendation I've seen is to use a "variac"-type variable transformer to reduce the powerline going in. Start at minimum, and turn things up slowwwwly, watching current draw. Beware gotchas like LSTTL drawing heavy current at around 2.1 volts supply. Actually, with a meter across the capacitor supply, stop at about one volt, so any semiconductors in line can't get terribly excited: if there's no apparent short as things stabilize, turn the voltage up. (2) CRTs aren't a hazard from undervoltage (I ran a sick Zenith TV on 85VAC for years using a Variac). It's overvoltage that causes X-Ray risks. Just to be safe, disconnect anything mechanical, to avoid problems like the hard-drive one you mentioned - some types of motor overheat if undervolt-ed. Bob "HW-Hacker" Maxwell How many people do you know that sawed their computer in two? From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 3 11:04:00 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: HP 80 Series software Message-ID: Hi Joe, >I'd like get a copy if you have it. I'm running into a couple of >oddities when I try to operate it. It's working but not the way that I >expected and I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or what. I remember being slightly confused by the operation of the bus analyser too. It didn't really seem to make sense to me for some operations - I was never sure if it was broken or that was just the way it worked. I think that these things tend to be a little flaky / sensitive - I ended up constructing a single analyser that sort of worked from three analysers that didn't. >Steve Robertson ran into the same problem when he tried to use it to >study the disk operation as part of writing an OS for the HP 1000. He did >get some usefull info but only 32 bytes of it! That's right, the internal memory buffer in the bus analyser is only 32 bytes. You can either set it up to store 32 bytes from the bus or (I think), if you have the patience, you can manually (in binary) store 32 bytes in the memory and then have the analyser clock them out onto the bus. >I'm currently investigating another option. >NI make a GPIB+ card (ISA or PCI) that acts as both a GPIB controller and a >... >codes. I'll let you know how I get on. I've now had a chance to take a look at the NI GPIB+ cards in some detail. With the proviso that these cards only work under Windows 98 se or earlier and windows NT, they seem to be an excellent solution to seeing what is going on on an HPIB bus. The software can be set up to monitor all events on the HPIB bus, control lines, data lines, control words, data words etc. The card can also be set up to passively monitor the bus and add time stamps to the captured bus events. The only limitation to the number of events that can be stored in a capture file appears to be how much memory/disk space the capture machine has. The capture files can be exported in a text format and dumped into Word / Excel for further processing. >I have (had?) a card like that but NI no longer supports it and I >haven't been able to find any docs or software for it. If the card is a GPIB+ Controller/Analyser then the software is available for NT / Win98 - you need version 1.7 of the GPIB controller software from the NI website. >I have something else that might be usefull. It's Bus Analyzer module >made by HP that works with one of their logic analyzers. You plug the LA >pods directly into it (no wire leads) and it has sockets for RS-232, HP-IB >and one or two other standard interfaces. With it you can use a LA to grab >the data, disaasemble it (if you have the the disassembler), save it, send >it to a computer, etc. I've never tried to use it since I don't have the LA >(HP 1631 IIRC) that it works with. For me, after looking at the GPIB+ card it seems to be a 100% solution - I am very impressed with it - only the slightly ageing software lets it down. Peter _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 3 11:07:01 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: HP R332 touch screen Message-ID: Hi All, I have an old 9000 R332 (rackmount 300 series machine with built in monitor). It looks as though the display has an array of LED's and photo diodes for a touch screen setup. How do I get the touch screen to work? Do I need some additional sofware to do this? Cheers Peter _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From aek at spies.com Tue Jun 3 11:30:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306031631.h53GVneW003336@spies.com> If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow it to add to the documentation archive. From dundas at caltech.edu Tue Jun 3 12:57:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: <20030603085312.I256040@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <014101c32965$5345e0b0$0200a8c0@cosmo>; from ssj152@charter.net on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:16:05 CEST <014101c32965$5345e0b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: Stuart, At 11:53 PM -0700 6/2/03, Jochen Kunz wrote: >On 2003.06.03 02:16 Stuart Johnson wrote: > >> Does anyone have a couple (2) of the AMP 10 pin connectors (with >> unused pins) used with the DLV-11J 4 port serial I/O boards or >> know where I could purchase them? >Aren't this very common 10 pin IDC connectors? At least on my DLV-11J >clone from Sigma Systems. I used the usual 10 pin crimp connectors for >ribbon cable to make the cables. I have a -J that I'd like to make work and I don't have cables either. I might get a chance to try Jochen's suggestion this weekend, but not before. If you find a solution, please post. Thanks, John From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jun 3 13:20:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <200306031631.h53GVneW003336@spies.com> Message-ID: <000701c329fc$9f460750$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like > to borrow it to add to the documentation archive. Can you scan fiche yet? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From aek at spies.com Tue Jun 3 13:37:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306031838.h53Icpa6018053@spies.com> Can you scan fiche yet? -- No, that project is probably not going to happen this year. Too many other things going on right now. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 3 13:40:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components Message-ID: <200306031839.LAA17877@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I think the rule is 0.5ma per cubic inch of computer grade capacitor and 0.25 ma per cubic inch of normal capacitor. As an example: 2" dia X 3 inch = 9.4 in^3 Cap voltage rating of 10V use 2.2K limiting resistor and 10V supply. Of course, if the capacitor is on a 5V rail, you'll need to disconnect one end. Dwight >From: "Luc Vande Velde" > >For years I use a high-voltage DC power supply with current limiting for >this. Works very fine... >Only a few, weird designs, need the AC voltage to start. >This is also a very safe way to repair the things (safe for the unit and the >technician) > >gr. > >Luc > > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Robert Maxwell >Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 5:21 PM >To: 'cctech@classiccmp.org' >Subject: RE: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components > > >-----Original Message----- >>Anybody want to offer advice on reforming filter >>caps? I'm planning to power up some stuff that >>hasn't seen voltage in a long time. My plan is >>to put several low-wattage light-bulbs in series >>with the thing, to limit the amount of current it >>will get, and hopefully allow those old caps >>to reform instead of, say, exploding in my face. >>... >>Now the questions: >> >>Could putting the light-bulbs (or whatever) in >>series on the primary side of the transformer >>actually produce the desired effect? IIRC, a >>step-down transformer divides the voltage but >>multiplies the current. So I'd have to limit the >>current on the primary side that much more to >>keep the secondary current down, right?> >> >>Also, what kinds of things could be damaged by >>getting less voltage than they were designed for? >>I could imagine hard disks spinning too little to >>lift the heads from the surface, for instance. >>(This is moot, because there are no hard disks >>in any of the equipment I'm looking at.) How >>about CRT's? Could too little deflection make >>the beam hit something it shouldn't? Anything >>else? >> >> Thanks, >> Bill. > >Bill, > (1) Don't use a light bulb - they have a very low resistance when cold, >and will cause the inrush you're trying to avoid. The best recommendation >I've seen is to use a "variac"-type variable transformer to reduce the >powerline going in. Start at minimum, and turn things up slowwwwly, watching >current draw. Beware gotchas like LSTTL drawing heavy current at around 2.1 >volts supply. Actually, with a meter across the capacitor supply, stop at >about one volt, so any semiconductors in line can't get terribly excited: if >there's no apparent short as things stabilize, turn the voltage up. > (2) CRTs aren't a hazard from undervoltage (I ran a sick Zenith TV on >85VAC for years using a Variac). It's overvoltage that causes X-Ray risks. >Just to be safe, disconnect anything mechanical, to avoid problems like the >hard-drive one you mentioned - some types of motor overheat if undervolt-ed. > >Bob "HW-Hacker" Maxwell >How many people do you know that sawed their computer in two? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 3 13:48:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: <200306031847.LAA17885@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I believe this is normal. According to the schematic I have, only the motor is switched. The transformer that supplies the current loop is still active. You must pull the plug when working on these. Dwight >From: "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" > >This res. gets hot even when switched off, but just in the socket. I'm >going to take pictures of the unit on wednesday, but a picture of the >teletype with the cover on can be found at >tore.nortia.no/bilder/s201002.jpg . > > ASCII drawings: > (out of scale) > ________________________ > | | | | Blue slot with card that gets hot > | |-- |/ > | | || > |_________________| || > | | | > |_________________|____| > > ____________ > | | > | (14 O ) | <- large resistor > | | > | (220ko)| <\ > | (300ko)| | > | | |- not sure > | etc (vr) | | > | | | _ | > |||||| |||||| > > The resistor gets extremely hot when the 33 is plugged in. > "Athlon without its fan"-style hot. > > >-Tore > >"Insert quote with wierd Tore-humour here" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 3 14:02:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components In-Reply-To: <20030603031645.52791.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Jun 2, 3 08:16:45 pm Message-ID: > Anybody want to offer advice on reforming filter > caps? I'm planning to power up some stuff that > hasn't seen voltage in a long time. My plan is > to put several low-wattage light-bulbs in series > with the thing, to limit the amount of current it > will get, and hopefully allow those old caps > to reform instead of, say, exploding in my face. Light bulbs will limit the maximum mains current in the event of a catestrophic failure on the mains side of the PSU (this is particularly valuable when repairing SMPSUs), but I doubt they'll have much effect here. You really need to remoce the capacitors and connect them in series with a fairly high value resistor across an adjustable DC power supply. And then increase the voltage while keeping the current fairly low until the capacitor will stand the rated working voltage. > > It would be better to put the light bulbs (or > whatever kind of resistor) in series with the > caps themselves on the secondary side of the Yes > Also, what kinds of things could be damaged by > getting less voltage than they were designed for? Switch-mode PSUs for one. These things appear as a constant _power_ load, and draw more current as the input voltage decreases. If you're unlucky, this will kill the chopper transistor, etc. > I could imagine hard disks spinning too little to > lift the heads from the surface, for instance. > (This is moot, because there are no hard disks > in any of the equipment I'm looking at.) How > about CRT's? Could too little deflection make > the beam hit something it shouldn't? Anything CRts are an interesting case. A low supply voltage will almost certainly result in a low EHT, which will mean a less stiff electron beam. So the deflection angle might actually increase!. However, I think the main risk would be damage to the cathode by trying to draw too high a beam current from it while it's too cold (the heater voltage would be low too). What are the devices in question? My experience suggests that most stuff from the late 1970s and 1980s is fine -- the capacitors are still good (OK, they'll be the odd failure, but..). This particularly applies to computers and test gear which used good quality components in the first place. Older, valved, stuff, needs to have the capacitors removed, checked and re-formed. More modern stuff, particularly consumer-grade stuff, may well have capacitor problems too. Incidentally, all my HP desktop calculators, my Tekky 555 'scope, and most of my minicomputers still all the original capacitors! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 3 14:02:32 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Teletype In-Reply-To: <200306022315.QAA17040@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jun 2, 3 04:15:16 pm Message-ID: > >Maybe. Does the Model 33 work correctly when switched to 'local'? If not, > >then you certainly have problems in the Teletype. If it does work in > >'local' mode, then you might still have problems in the Teletype, but > >problems with the interface are also possible. > > Hi > It is also possible that he has the wrong speed gears/motor. > A 60Hz motor will run in local with 50Hz connected but the > Baud rate to the outside will be wrong. That was one of the 'problems in the Teletype' that I was thinking of. I suspsect the easiest kludge for this these days is to fiddle with the clock at the computer interface end, and run the whole thing at 91.667 baud -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 3 14:02:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Teletype In-Reply-To: from "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" at Jun 3, 3 05:57:07 pm Message-ID: > This res. gets hot even when switched off, but just in the socket. I'm > going to take pictures of the unit on wednesday, but a picture of the > teletype with the cover on can be found at > tore.nortia.no/bilder/s201002.jpg . > > ASCII drawings: > (out of scale) > ________________________ > | | | | Blue slot with card that gets hot > | |-- |/ > | | || > |_________________| || > | | | > |_________________|____| > > ____________ > | | > | (14 O ) | <- large resistor > | | > | (220ko)| <\ > | (300ko)| | > | | |- not sure > | etc (vr) | | > | | | _ | > |||||| |||||| This does not sound like the standard Teleytpe electronics (the current loop 'call control unit'). Many companies (Data Dynamics was a common one in the UK) made their own versions of the Model 33 using Teletype mechanics,but with their own cabinets and electronics. Some of these gave RS232 interfaces, or isolated current looks, or single-stepped readers, or... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 3 14:02:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: HP R332 touch screen In-Reply-To: from "Peter Brown" at Jun 3, 3 04:06:14 pm Message-ID: > Hi All, > > I have an old 9000 R332 (rackmount 300 series machine with built in > monitor). > It looks as though the display has an array of LED's and photo diodes for a > touch screen setup. > How do I get the touch screen to work? It may well be an HP-HIL device. I know it was on some HP9000 machines -- which used HP-HIL for the keyboard and mouse too. -tony From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jun 3 14:26:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <200306031631.h53GVneW003336@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030603142436.0198e278@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Al, I have one. If you remind me of your USPS address, I will send you a xerox. --tom At 09:31 AM 6/3/2003 -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow it to >add to the documentation archive. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 3 14:43:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030603194241.86682.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "John A. Dundas III" wrote: > Stuart, > > At 11:53 PM -0700 6/2/03, Jochen Kunz wrote: > >On 2003.06.03 02:16 Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have a couple (2) of the AMP 10 pin connectors (with > >> unused pins) used with the DLV-11J 4 port serial I/O boards or > >> know where I could purchase them? > >Aren't this very common 10 pin IDC connectors? At least on my DLV-11J > >clone from Sigma Systems. I used the usual 10 pin crimp connectors for > >ribbon cable to make the cables. > > I have a -J that I'd like to make work and I don't have cables either. I > might get a chance to try Jochen's suggestion this weekend, but not > before. I have used both 10-pin IDC headers _and_ the old, black Berg headers with the individual crimped pins. Given that the pins are on the order of $0.45 each and the crimper is somewhat expensive, unless you plan to make hundreds of connectors, you are probably going to want to go with 10-pin ribbon cable and IDC connectors. I don't know the brand names, but DEC used dark-blue and grey IDC connectors, while the ones I saw commonly available were sky blue. T&B? I can't direct you to a source, unfortunately; I haven't bought any in over 10 years. -ethan From kth at srv.net Tue Jun 3 15:07:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? References: <200306031838.h53Icpa6018053@spies.com> Message-ID: <3EDD095F.5020100@srv.net> Al Kossow wrote: >Can you scan fiche yet? > >-- > >No, that project is probably not going to happen this year. >Too many other things going on right now. > > > What kind of resolution is necessary for scanning microfiche? 2400dpi scanners are becomming moderately cheap and common, capable of scanning negitives, but is this enough density for a readable copy from microfiche? iirc. a page is about 1/4" on the fiche (or am I remembering wrong? Haven't held fiche in years), which would give you (.25 * 2400) = 600bits/wide. Assuming it's from an 8-1/2" sheet, (600 / 8.5) = 70, which would come to about 70 dpi relative scan density. A little low for OCR, but is it readable? If you need larger size, how hard would it be to project a microfiche image onto a sheet, and to scan that? You shouldn't need to make a single page image much larger than a 1" wide to get something scannable. (2400 * 1")/8.5 = 282 dpi equivelent. Probably good enough for OCR if it's not to blurry. Just thinking strange ideas. Wish I had some fiche to try. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jun 3 15:20:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <200306031631.h53GVneW003336@spies.com>; from aek@spies.com on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 18:31:49 CEST References: <200306031631.h53GVneW003336@spies.com> Message-ID: <20030603202840.E257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.03 18:31 Al Kossow wrote: > If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow > it to add to the documentation archive. Do you mean: "RL01/RL02 User Guide" EK-RL012-UG-005? (It contains installation, operation and detaild RL11 and RL8A programming information.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From aek at spies.com Tue Jun 3 15:24:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306032025.h53KPOqt030258@spies.com> > Do you mean: "RL01/RL02 User Guide" EK-RL012-UG-005? No, I have that on line already. I'm looking for the RL02 Technical Manual part # EP-RL012-TM From aek at spies.com Tue Jun 3 15:30:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306032031.h53KVSIS030851@spies.com> See previous discussions of this on the list. It is on the order of 10000 DPI. I have two fiche scanners, A 3M unit that I actually have software for, but requires manual positioning and a much older automatic unit with no docs or software. The effective resolution of the output is normally between 200 and 400 DPI after magnification between 20 and 30x. From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jun 3 15:35:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <20030603202840.E257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200306031631.h53GVneW003336@spies.com> <200306031631.h53GVneW003336@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030603153319.03c6a938@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 08:28 PM 6/3/2003 +0200, Jochen Kunz wrote: >On 2003.06.03 18:31 Al Kossow wrote: > > > If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow > > it to add to the documentation archive. >Do you mean: "RL01/RL02 User Guide" EK-RL012-UG-005? >(It contains installation, operation and detaild RL11 and RL8A >programming information.) There are two volumes to the RL01/RL02 manual set. The one you mention is Volume I and the Technical Manual is Volume II EK-RL122-TM-001. --tom >-- > > >tsch??, > Jochen > >Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jun 3 16:00:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: list squirrelyness Message-ID: <001101c32a12$66bac540$033310ac@kwcorp.com> In an effort to track something down, both cctech and cctalk have temporarily been put into "all posts must be approved". The net effect is that traffic on the list will be more "bursty" for a while, as I periodically check posts and manually approve them all. This change is temporarily, hopefully no more than a few hours. Everything should be back to automatic approval by late tonight. Sorry for the inconvenience! (The approval change for the next few hours, only applies to posts that normally would NOT need to be approved). Regards, Jay West From davemaho at rcn.com Tue Jun 3 16:02:00 2003 From: davemaho at rcn.com (davemaho) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030603090233.02360da0@pop.rcn.com> Hello fellow PDP-8 enthusiasts: Due to financial considerations, I am forced to sell my PDP-8 collection. I will be putting individual items up on eBay over the next few weeks. My current collection includes a straight-8 in the original DEC rack cabinet, an 8/I, two 8/e's (one 'basic' and one a fully loaded 40-slot box), a TU-56 dual tape drive, high speed paper tape punch and reader, 80-column drum-style Dataproducts line printer with spare ribbons, documentation, boards, and paper; RX-01 and RX-02 disk drives, two PDP-8/a's, and two VT-278's on wheeled pedestals, extra VT-100's and VT-52's, and more that I have probably forgotten about. Software, maindecs, documentation, etc. will also be offered. I plan to hold on the straight-8 until the last possible moment, maybe forever, and I am negotiating the sale of the 8/I processor, its spare board set, and documentation, to a private party. I even have a couple of OLD 11's (an 11/05 is one of them). I have had this collection for close to 20 years. All my kids learned to use computers on it, and it has been lots of fun restoring them, writing software, and building custom hardware for them. I'll miss them, but I do want to see them go to good homes! If there is anything you want, let me know and I will put it up first. I have a LOT of stuff related to these machines, so ask, as I may have what you are looking for! Best Regards, Dave Mahoney From Michael.Bauza at rivhs.com Tue Jun 3 16:02:05 2003 From: Michael.Bauza at rivhs.com (Bauza, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Weird cable Message-ID: <31B20592C335D611A35F00508BE3F8A804554FF7@rhs_exchange.riverside-online.com> I'm interested in obtaining one of those "Weird" cables you have. Can you please either contact me at 757-534-7108 or give me your number so that we can discuss it further to make sure we are talking about the same weird cable. Thanks, Michael Bauza CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From mk at mkd-gmbh.de Tue Jun 3 16:02:08 2003 From: mk at mkd-gmbh.de (Michael Krauss) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! Message-ID: <3EDCFE9E.5BEC7E7C@mkd-gmbh.de> Justin, I came about your mail on an archive-server. Did you resolve your problem with the keyboard ? I think you do have a LK401, but not a Digital/Compaq one but one from Tektronix. Today I got a request from a customer looking for that Tektronics keyboard. But I only have DEC Keyboards. DEC LK401 has alway a 4pin RJ11 connector. I never came across that Tektronics keyboard before and your Mail was the only one stating the Tektronics pratnumber, which is different fron the DEC one. BTW, the serial# is different, too. The DEC ser# is longer. The TEK ser# has only 5 digits while DEC ser# have 10 digits. Sincerely, Michael From vharris at usce.org Tue Jun 3 16:02:11 2003 From: vharris at usce.org (Vince Harris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: HELP!!! I am looking for ADQ32-SF Message-ID: <004901c32a10$b616d9a0$050a0a0a@xo.com> I am searching for a reasonably priced DEC ADQ32-SF. I have only been able to find one but the company that has it wants way too much for it. If you have any resources for this I would greatly appreciate any links, phone numbers, fax numbers or anything else that you feel may help in my search. Thank you for your time Vince Harris Account Manager US Computer Exchange Inc. 386 East Maple Road Troy, MI 48083 248-583-9000 Phone 248-583-9009 Fax vharris@usce.org From charlesmorris at direcway.com Tue Jun 3 16:45:00 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: ASR33 resistors In-Reply-To: <20030603170001.76737.75361.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030603170001.76737.75361.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Go to David Gesswein's site http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query_all.html and look under "Teletype", download the "Print Sets which have full schematics of your 33, and all will be revealed! As you have discovered, parts of the TTY power supply are on all the time even if the line/local switch is off... Mine runs quite hot too, and over the years has discolored the board beneath it to a well-done dark brown. -Charles On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:00:01 -0500, you wrote: >This res. gets hot even when switched off, but just in the socket. > ____________ > | | > | (14 O ) | <- large resistor > | | > | (220ko)| <\ > | (300ko)| | > | | |- not sure > | etc (vr) | | > | | | _ | > |||||| |||||| From shirsch at adelphia.net Tue Jun 3 17:19:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: HP64000 System In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD5D3@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Luc Vande Velde wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I have to do some reverse-engineering work on an old Z80 based system. > Does anyone know where to find A 64650A GP Preprocessor pod > and a 64853A Z80 personality module Luc, I have a 64252A Z80 Emulator pod (maybe a slower max clock than the one you mention?) but no control board. Steve From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 3 18:07:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <20030603202840.E257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Jun 3, 3 08:28:40 pm Message-ID: > On 2003.06.03 18:31 Al Kossow wrote: > > > If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow > > it to add to the documentation archive. > Do you mean: "RL01/RL02 User Guide" EK-RL012-UG-005? > (It contains installation, operation and detaild RL11 and RL8A > programming information.) No, there's a separate technical manual, which includes fairly complete circuit descriptions, PROM dumps, FRU replacement procedures, and so on. It's a very useful document. I have it on microfiche, and the person who gave me my PDP8/a (with RL8, etc) gave me a version he'd printed out from said fiche. It's not very readable in places (sometimes I have to dig out the microfiche reader), but most of it sure is useful. -tony From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Jun 3 18:07:50 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: list squirrelyness In-Reply-To: <001101c32a12$66bac540$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030603221912.01a4a400@slave> At 21:55 03/06/2003, you wrote: >In an effort to track something down, both cctech and cctalk have >temporarily been put into "all posts must be approved". Have you checked down the back/sides of the sofa? I find that most things I need to track down end up there, somehow... ;) (Don't approve this post if you don't want to) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 3 18:07:53 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> >Maybe. Does the Model 33 work correctly when switched to 'local'? If not, >> >then you certainly have problems in the Teletype. If it does work in >> >'local' mode, then you might still have problems in the Teletype, but >> >problems with the interface are also possible. >> >> Hi >> It is also possible that he has the wrong speed gears/motor. >> A 60Hz motor will run in local with 50Hz connected but the >> Baud rate to the outside will be wrong. > >That was one of the 'problems in the Teletype' that I was thinking of. I >suspsect the easiest kludge for this these days is to fiddle with the >clock at the computer interface end, and run the whole thing at 91.667 baud > >-tony > Hi One could buy a new pulley and add some additional capacitance to the motors capacitor and it might work well at 50Hz. I don't think I'd run it too long without the capacitor increase. They run the motor hot at 60Hz. It'd be even hotter at 50. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 3 18:24:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Teletype In-Reply-To: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jun 3, 3 02:42:30 pm Message-ID: > Hi > One could buy a new pulley and add some additional capacitance IIRC, the coupling between the motor and the rest of the mechnism consists of a pair of helically-cut gears on the end of the motor (one on the motor spindle, the other on a separate spindle). The driven gear is moulded integrally with a sprocket for a toothed belt that goes to a larger sprovket on the transmitter shaft. The gears are almost certainly custom parts and would not be easy to get now (unless you know of a souce of Model 33 parts...). Making them would also be non-trivial, I think, at least in most home workshops. > to the motors capacitor and it might work well at 50Hz. I don't > think I'd run it too long without the capacitor increase. They > run the motor hot at 60Hz. It'd be even hotter at 50. I thought that at least some of the Model 33 motors were used on both 50 and 60 Hz, with just a gearing change. I know that UK Model 33s have 115V motors and an autotransformer in the stand -- if there was a 50Hz motor, I would have thought it would have been wound for 230V. -tony From jdickens at ameritech.net Tue Jun 3 18:40:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: New to list... Message-ID: <200306040610.28011.jdickens@ameritech.net> Hi new to list... just won a SUN 4/690mp... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3027472460&category=11216&rd=1 * have hints on moving... * what in it based on the pictures... * wants to make an offer to buy it for more than i paid for it * any one would care to comment? really just interested in the HP box going to convert it to a scsi disk box for some of my other smaller machines... and the monitor and keyboard.. the rest is a bonus Sincerly James Dickens From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 3 18:46:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: reforming PS caps w/primary-side components In-Reply-To: <001f01c32981$ea1e2530$3d00a8c0@falco> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Mike van Bokhoven wrote: > On a side-note - I just powered up two unknown-condition Apple //es and a > //e monitor. One of the //es and the monitor went BANG and let out smoke on > startup - what is it with Apple and AC filter capacitors? Both the machine I've never had an Apple ][ power supply do this. For what that's worth. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From r.stek at snet.net Tue Jun 3 19:30:01 2003 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: New find - Pro-Log M824, Z80 analyzer Message-ID: <000001c32a2f$dbf26030$6401a8c0@mycroft1> Long time readers may recall that about once a year I beg other list members to see if they have the manual for the Pro-Log M822 8080 analyzer - that quest continues. But I am now the proud owner of a Pro-Log M824 Z80 analyzer that I snatched up for $15 off ebay. Of course there was no manual. But now - theoretically - I can add blinken-lights to both my Sol-20 and my NorthStar Horizon and single-step to my heart's delight. So...... are there any list members with the manual / schematic for EITHER the M822 OR the M824 ???? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 3 20:52:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306040610.28011.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20030604014741.16623.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- jamesd wrote: > Hi new to list... just won a SUN 4/690mp... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3027472460&category=11216&rd=1 Wahoo! > * have hints on moving... Lift gate truck - check with Budget. > * what in it based on the pictures... > * wants to make an offer to buy it for more than i paid for it Um... no. She's all yours ;-) > * any one would care to comment? If you intend to run it, AFAIK, the Sun4/690 tops out at Solaris 2.5.1 or Solaris 2.6. -ethan From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jun 3 21:14:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > On 2003.06.03 18:31 Al Kossow wrote: > > > > > If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow > > > it to add to the documentation archive. > > Do you mean: "RL01/RL02 User Guide" EK-RL012-UG-005? > > (It contains installation, operation and detaild RL11 and RL8A > > programming information.) > > No, there's a separate technical manual, which includes fairly complete > circuit descriptions, PROM dumps, FRU replacement procedures, and so on. > It's a very useful document. Is there a similar document for the RL8A, RL11, RLV11 or RLV12? I'd really like to get enough documentation together to build a controller that can work with other machines (maybe ISA bus, or more likely a microcontroller with a nice sized chunk of cache ram and a serial port) to facilitate getting data onto/off of RL02 disks. Really, I'm just looking for the microcode PROM dump, or specs on the drive<->controller bus that are detailed enough to contain a 'protocol description'. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 3 21:30:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: HP R332 touch screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030603222142.45c7d750@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Peter, I picked up a pile (8 of them IIRC) of these things recently. They had been surplused by a large company and the integrated keyboards were missing. So the surplus company that got them threw them out. BUT the KB cable runs through the machine then out the back and then plugs back into a standard HP-HIL keyboard port. So I'm thinking that I can use a standard HP-HIL keyboard. I've tried one of the machines and I can't get a display on it. I haven't had time to check further and I haven't checke dhte others. I'm pretty certain that these have an internal hard drive. sorry no advice on how to use the touch screen. Do you know if an external display can be connected to these? This one appears to be running but nothing is displayed on the screen. I think it may have a bad screen. Joe At 04:06 PM 6/3/03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I have an old 9000 R332 (rackmount 300 series machine with built in >monitor). >It looks as though the display has an array of LED's and photo diodes for a >touch screen setup. >How do I get the touch screen to work? >Do I need some additional sofware to do this? > >Cheers > >Peter > >_________________________________________________________________ >Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! >http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 3 21:30:25 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Retro printer ribbons up for grabs In-Reply-To: <3EDC6D11.2060702@york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030603222644.45b7d3b6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:40 AM 6/3/03 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I'm new here - so I hope I'm not breaching any etiquette by posting >this. I have a couple of new boxed ribbons for the following printer list... > >Binder 1550, 8510, 8510A >C.Itoh 1550, 8510, 8510A, Prowriter 7500 >DEC CLA 45-14602, LA50 >HP 85 ???? The HP-85 doesn't use a ribbon. It uses thermal paper. FWIW I just picked up another HP-85, several ROMs, 4 interfaces, a 82901 5 1/4" disk drive and a HP 82(something) printer today. (A rebadged Epson MX-80 printer with HP_IB added.) Joe >Leading Edge Prowriter 2-1550 8150AP >NCR 6411 >NEC PC 8023A/B/C >Toshiba P1150, PA7251, PA7252 > >These are FREE (via an SAE to the UK). If you have any of the above >equipment and are interested, please email me directly at elec37@york.ac.uk. > >Cheers now, > >Ben >~~~ >Computer Recycling Project >University of York, UK >www.comprec.org.uk From jdickens at ameritech.net Tue Jun 3 21:58:01 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <20030604014741.16623.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030604014741.16623.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200306040928.43286.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Tuesday 03 June 2003 08:47 pm, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- jamesd wrote: > > Hi new to list... just won a SUN 4/690mp... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3027472460&category=1121 >6&rd=1 > > Wahoo! > > > * have hints on moving... > > Lift gate truck - check with Budget. hoping to put it in the back of my Ford Explorer, with help from the seller maybe.. and will probably disasemble it to get into my basement... thank goodness i have cellar on the outside of hose so it's a strait shot into the basement.. might rent a refrigerator dolly... to deal with the stairs.. > > > * what in it based on the pictures... > > * wants to make an offer to buy it for more than i paid for it > > Um... no. She's all yours ;-) > > > * any one would care to comment? > > If you intend to run it, AFAIK, the Sun4/690 tops out at Solaris 2.5.1 > or Solaris 2.6. was leaning towards linux ( i hear debian supports it) could you tell if it has a 220 volt power cord or not I couldn't tell, and if it does will i be able to plug it into a electric dryer outlet? I'm still a bit leary of plugging in a machine that requires that much power. James > > -ethan From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 3 22:07:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 03, 2003 06:47:41 PM Message-ID: <200306040303.h5433S74004214@shell1.aracnet.com> > --- jamesd wrote: > > Hi new to list... just won a SUN 4/690mp... > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3027472460&category=11216&rd=1 > > Wahoo! Not quite my reaction after looking at what he got, mine is OUCH! My advice, ask the seller how much he'll charge you to keep it. Do you realize how big and HEAVY that stuff is?!?! OTOH, if you did realize what you were bidding on, congrantulations, you got it for a killer price :^) What can I say, big Unix boxes for hobbyist use scare me, I'd much rather have a nice small modernish 2-4 processor Unix workstation. Zane From ssj152 at charter.net Tue Jun 3 22:09:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: The Univac III (in trailer) is back Message-ID: <01d501c32a45$f51b8f80$0200a8c0@cosmo> Well, the Univac III is back: UNIVAC III Computer (In Storage since 1975), eBay auction Item # 2733726990. This time the starting price is $7,500 and the buy-it-now is $11,000. The URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2733726990&category=1247 OK, somebody, jump right on it! :-) (Not me, I'm into LITTLE computers like PDP-11's and VAXen, with an occasional side dish of 6502 or 8085) Stuart Johnson From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 3 22:19:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Display of first networked personal computer game returning Message-ID: <200306040314.XAA1554467@shell.TheWorld.com> As I said... little time... and even less now that I have a full-time job *AND* getting my clinical training in the OR... Megan From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Jun 3 22:27:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Teletype References: Message-ID: <3EDD65DB.60404@cox.net> Wouldn't it be so much easier to make a power inverter to run at 50 Hz and save all the time and expense of finding gears & etc. & etc.?? I have a power inverter that would be a simple cap change (two of them) to run 50 Hz. Output power is about 250 Watts now, maybe 175-200 at 50 Hz (or would it be more?)? How much power does a 33 take? Discuss... -Bryan Tony Duell wrote: >>Hi >> One could buy a new pulley and add some additional capacitance >> >> > >IIRC, the coupling between the motor and the rest of the mechnism >consists of a pair of helically-cut gears on the end of the motor (one on >the motor spindle, the other on a separate spindle). The driven gear is >moulded integrally with a sprocket for a toothed belt that goes to a >larger sprovket on the transmitter shaft. > >The gears are almost certainly custom parts and would not be easy to get >now (unless you know of a souce of Model 33 parts...). Making them would >also be non-trivial, I think, at least in most home workshops. > > From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Tue Jun 3 23:16:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: Teletype References: <20030603170001.76737.29127.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000b01c32a4f$5d046d20$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Tony Duell wrote: >That was one of the 'problems in the Teletype' that I was thinking of. I >suspsect the easiest kludge for this these days is to fiddle with the >clock at the computer interface end, and run the whole thing at 91.667 baud > >-tony 91 baud! That is way too slow. I could live with 110 baud, but not 91 baud. My Selectric terminal used a speedy 134.5 baud. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jun 4 02:18:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: The Univac III (in trailer) is back In-Reply-To: <01d501c32a45$f51b8f80$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030604080555.03c2ac78@pop.freeserve.net> At 22:04 03/06/2003 -0500, Stuart Johnson wrote: >Well, the Univac III is back: UNIVAC III Computer (In Storage since 1975), >eBay auction Item # 2733726990. [snip] >(Not me, I'm into LITTLE computers like PDP-11's and VAXen, with an occasional >side dish of 6502 or 8085) I'd quite like an 11/780 - used to work on them when I was an apprentice at Ferranti (why we didn't use our own machines more, when we built and sold them from the same factory, I don't know!) but I don't even have the room to set up the old home micro's I have... As for the Univac .. he says "stored on a 40' Semi-Trailer (clean & Dry)" Looking a the pictures, they don't look like they've been very dry. Fronts of the cabinets all discoloured, and the cardboard boxes are stained. I presume that even a bit of moisture would wreck anything this old? Rob From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 4 02:50:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: "John A. Dundas III" "Re: AMP connector for DLV-11J" (Jun 3, 10:56) References: <014101c32965$5345e0b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ; from ssj152@charter.net on Tue Jun 03 Message-ID: <10306032348.ZM2848@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 3, 10:56, John A. Dundas III wrote: > Stuart, > > At 11:53 PM -0700 6/2/03, Jochen Kunz wrote: > >On 2003.06.03 02:16 Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have a couple (2) of the AMP 10 pin connectors (with > >> unused pins) used with the DLV-11J 4 port serial I/O boards or > >> know where I could purchase them? > >Aren't this very common 10 pin IDC connectors? At least on my DLV-11J > >clone from Sigma Systems. I used the usual 10 pin crimp connectors for > >ribbon cable to make the cables. > > I have a -J that I'd like to make work and I don't have cables either. I > might get a chance to try Jochen's suggestion this weekend, but not before. > If you find a solution, please post. Most of the cables I've seen on these were made up using 2x5-way Berg connectors and individual Bergcon crimp pins. You can still get them, but the pins are horrendously expensive in small quantities. However, lots of other manufacturers now make similar conectors (two rows, on a 0.1" pitch (2.54mm not 2.5mm)). I've used ones made by Molex (C-Grid III 90142 series, cut off the polarising lug) and Harwin (M20-1071000). Those numbers are from a quick glance at a catalogue so check them before you buy a whole lot! Tyco/Amp make something similar, 87456-6 is a 2x5 way housing with various gold-plated or tinned crimp pins to fit. I get mine from Farnell in the UK, but I'm sure you'd be able to get something from any of the usual US suppliers. BTW, if you make up your own DLV11-J cables, don't forget the shorting link or it won't work reliably (if at all)! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 08:20:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306040928.43286.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20030604131543.25027.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- jamesd wrote: > > Lift gate truck - check with Budget. > hoping to put it in the back of my Ford Explorer... The Sun racks that I am familiar with are much wider than 19" (there's an internal 19"-spaced rack, with stuff on both sides) about 60" tall. That optical storage rack looks like a somewhat standard 72"-tall rack. You *might* be able to move it in an Explorer. I've moved two (empty) H960 racks in a VW Microbus (the contents were placed under the racks, on the floor behind the driver's seat, and I've moved an 11/750 in a Chevy Astro, but what you've won is a bit larger than either. > > If you intend to run it, AFAIK, the Sun4/690 tops out at Solaris 2.5.1 > > or Solaris 2.6. > was leaning towards linux ( i hear debian supports it) Linux for SPARC is a dog. It runs, but for certain architectures (sun4c especially, which is a little newer than yours), it's vastly sub- optimal. Given the age of the equipment, nobody wants to fix the problem, either. If you aren't going to run Solaris, I'd recommend *BSD. > could you tell if it has a 220 volt power cord or not I couldn't tell, ISTR the 690 might take a 220V plug. I am not a wiring genius, but I have assembled a few 30A 110V plugs and one 208-3phase for a VAX 8530. > and if it does will i be able to plug it into a electric dryer outlet? Not sure. There are extensive discussions on this list about that very topic. OTOH, I *think* the innards of the 690 are 110V, but the power distribution box might want 220. In that case, you can plug the CPU into its own 15A circuit and run the rest of the stuff off of a different circuit. > I'm still a bit leary of plugging in a machine that requires that much > power. I can understand that. This stuff wasn't exactly designed for home use. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 08:28:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:06 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: <10306032348.ZM2848@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030604132350.81748.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Peter Turnbull wrote: > Most of the cables I've seen on these were made up using 2x5-way Berg > connectors and individual Bergcon crimp pins. AFAIK, the connectors for a DLV11-J are 2x7-way... There are only nine pins (one is missing for keying), but the extra bits help you center the connector. 2x5 will work, if you don't miss. > You can still get them, but the pins are horrendously expensive in small > quantities. No kidding. One other "problem" is that you need to stock one set of pins for small connectors (like the DLV11-J) and another set of pins for large connectors (like an RL8A - 40 pins) because there are different mating forces. Yes, you can use the "wrong" pins, but they were spec'ed different for a reason. "Weak" pins in a small connector might not grab enough to stay in well enough, and "strong" pins in a large connector might be too difficult to insert. Given that mostly, I need to make serial cables (BC01V for the PDP-8, as well as DLV11-J-style PDP-11 cables), I need to find a source of "weak" pins that is less than 2/$1.00. Fortunately, I have the crimper. For small quantities of cables, I still recommend the IDC connectors. -ethan From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed Jun 4 08:32:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? References: Message-ID: <3EDDF3B1.A300F92C@compsys.to> >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Is there a similar document for the RL8A, RL11, RLV11 or RLV12? I'd > really like to get enough documentation together to build a controller > that can work with other machines (maybe ISA bus, or more likely a > microcontroller with a nice sized chunk of cache ram and a serial port) to > facilitate getting data onto/off of RL02 disks. Really, I'm just looking > for the microcode PROM dump, or specs on the drive<->controller bus that > are detailed enough to contain a 'protocol description'. Jerome Fine replies: I don't want to rain on your parade, but just a suggestion - a motherboard with an ISA slot is now almost impossible to find, new of course. And a serial port is a bit slow. Far better would be a PCI slot, although how much longer they will last is hard to know. BUT, if you are so inclined, FAR FAR more useful would be an MSCP implementation for IDE (now EIDE) drives which are themselves threatened, but should last for a few more years. Since the MSCP patent has expired, there will not be a conflict with DEC/Compaq/HP. If you are so inclined, ask for some help since a number of individuals have already considered this - especially for an ISA slot. Of course, even more useful might be a Qbus controller for EIDE hard drives that can be used on real DEC Qbus PDP-11 system that uses MSCP. This has also been looked at, but back 10 years ago before the patent expired was not allowed for hobby users. Note that there are no NEW Qbus host adapters for use with SCSI hard drives and the price of a Qbus host adapter is still quite high. A Qbus controller for "small" EIDE drives of 40 GBytes might be useful for a hobby user. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 4 08:45:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <20030604131543.25027.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Not sure. There are extensive discussions on this list about that > very topic. OTOH, I *think* the innards of the 690 are 110V, but the > power distribution box might want 220. In that case, you can plug the > CPU into its own 15A circuit and run the rest of the stuff off of a > different circuit. > > > I'm still a bit leary of plugging in a machine that requires that much > > power. > > I can understand that. This stuff wasn't exactly designed for home > use. Heh. here, 220VAC @ 20A is normal house wiring. Many houses here are fed with 48A (new) or 60A (old), on three circuits. High power circuits (dryers, arcos etc) are done on 380VAC (3-phase) here. My apartment now has the usual 3 220V (60A) circuits, two 380VAC circuits, and a new 500VAC power line attached to the power stuff downstairs :) "Gee, sir... what ARE you going to do here.. would your hobby be including devices such as electric chairs, perhaps??" *grin* :) --fred From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 4 09:00:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <3EDDF3B1.A300F92C@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Is there a similar document for the RL8A, RL11, RLV11 or RLV12? I'd > > really like to get enough documentation together to build a controller > > that can work with other machines (maybe ISA bus, or more likely a > > microcontroller with a nice sized chunk of cache ram and a serial port) to > > facilitate getting data onto/off of RL02 disks. Really, I'm just looking > > for the microcode PROM dump, or specs on the drive<->controller bus that > > are detailed enough to contain a 'protocol description'. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I don't want to rain on your parade, but just a suggestion - a motherboard > with an ISA slot is now almost impossible to find, new of course. And > a serial port is a bit slow. That doesn't bother me. I'm just looking for the simplest implementation that'll allow me to connect an RL01/02 to a PeeCee or other non [Q/UNI/OMNI]BUS machine. I'm not interested in practicality as much and the fun of running the thing. This is the same reason I want a (non slot load) 9track tape drive, and an RM0x-style 'washing machine' disk drive. > Far better would be a PCI slot, although how much longer they will last > is hard to know. I rather not play with something that 'speedy' yet. I'd rather work up from slow/narrow/simple bus (ISA) to fast/wide/complex bus (PCI) instead of jumping in head first. > BUT, if you are so inclined, FAR FAR more useful would be an MSCP > implementation for IDE (now EIDE) drives which are themselves threatened, > but should last for a few more years. Since the MSCP patent has expired, > there will not be a conflict with DEC/Compaq/HP. If you are so inclined, > ask for some help since a number of individuals have already considered > this - especially for an ISA slot. That would be interesting, but IDE disks are too small to play with. ;o) But it would be nice to stick a nice "small" 1-10GB disk on a QBUS machine of mine without using up my QBUS MSCP SCSI controller. As I remember though, the hard part about making QBUS things was finding the bus driver chips - unless you wanted to sever them off of working boards... which I'm not inclined to do at the moment. Thanks for the suggestions anyhow. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jun 4 09:57:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > > Is there a similar document for the RL8A, RL11, RLV11 or RLV12? I'd > > > really like to get enough documentation together to build a controller > > > that can work with other machines (maybe ISA bus, or more likely a > > > microcontroller with a nice sized chunk of cache ram and a serial port) to > > > facilitate getting data onto/off of RL02 disks. Really, I'm just looking > > > for the microcode PROM dump, or specs on the drive<->controller bus that > > > are detailed enough to contain a 'protocol description'. > > > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > I don't want to rain on your parade, but just a suggestion - a motherboard > > with an ISA slot is now almost impossible to find, new of course. And > > a serial port is a bit slow. > > That doesn't bother me. I'm just looking for the simplest implementation > that'll allow me to connect an RL01/02 to a PeeCee or other non > [Q/UNI/OMNI]BUS machine. I'm not interested in practicality as much and > the fun of running the thing. This is the same reason I want a (non slot > load) 9track tape drive, and an RM0x-style 'washing machine' disk drive. If you are serious about doing this I can offer a free PCI FPGA card (one of our "blems") That would give you a 200K FPGA and 72 I/O lines. Sounds like a fun project... > > > Far better would be a PCI slot, although how much longer they will last > > is hard to know. > > I rather not play with something that 'speedy' yet. I'd rather work up > from slow/narrow/simple bus (ISA) to fast/wide/complex bus (PCI) instead > of jumping in head first. > > > BUT, if you are so inclined, FAR FAR more useful would be an MSCP > > implementation for IDE (now EIDE) drives which are themselves threatened, > > but should last for a few more years. Since the MSCP patent has expired, > > there will not be a conflict with DEC/Compaq/HP. If you are so inclined, > > ask for some help since a number of individuals have already considered > > this - especially for an ISA slot. > > That would be interesting, but IDE disks are too small to play with. ;o) > But it would be nice to stick a nice "small" 1-10GB disk on a QBUS machine > of mine without using up my QBUS MSCP SCSI controller. As I remember > though, the hard part about making QBUS things was finding the bus driver > chips - unless you wanted to sever them off of working boards... which I'm > not inclined to do at the moment. There arent that many QBUS lines to drive. If I was to make a new QBUS card I would use SOT-23 MOSFETs as the bus drivers, maybe with a 10 ohm series resistor for output protection against VCC shorts and slew rate limited gate drive... > > Thanks for the suggestions anyhow. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > Peter Wallace From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jun 4 10:46:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J References: <20030603194241.86682.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EDE12E7.50500@Vishay.com> Stuart, the main difference is that the original connectors (and pins) contain a locking mechanic that prevents the plug from sliding out when you pull on the cable. To release the lock, you grab the connector housing and pull, with no pull at the cable. If you don't need the lock feature, regular 10-pin connectors are just fine. Andreas Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "John A. Dundas III" wrote: > >>Stuart, >> >>At 11:53 PM -0700 6/2/03, Jochen Kunz wrote: >> >>>On 2003.06.03 02:16 Stuart Johnson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Does anyone have a couple (2) of the AMP 10 pin connectors (with >>>>unused pins) used with the DLV-11J 4 port serial I/O boards or >>>>know where I could purchase them? >>> >>>Aren't this very common 10 pin IDC connectors? At least on my DLV-11J >>>clone from Sigma Systems. I used the usual 10 pin crimp connectors for >>>ribbon cable to make the cables. >> >>I have a -J that I'd like to make work and I don't have cables either. I >>might get a chance to try Jochen's suggestion this weekend, but not >>before. > > > I have used both 10-pin IDC headers _and_ the old, black Berg headers > with the individual crimped pins. Given that the pins are on the order > of $0.45 each and the crimper is somewhat expensive, unless you plan > to make hundreds of connectors, you are probably going to want to go > with 10-pin ribbon cable and IDC connectors. > > I don't know the brand names, but DEC used dark-blue and grey IDC > connectors, while the ones I saw commonly available were sky blue. > T&B? > > I can't direct you to a source, unfortunately; I haven't bought any > in over 10 years. > > -ethan -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 11:31:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Hanging off a DEC bus (was Re: DEC RL02 anyone need one?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030604162645.19358.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > But it would be nice to stick a nice "small" 1-10GB disk on a QBUS... > > ...As I remember though, the hard part about making QBUS things was > > finding the bus driver chips - unless you wanted to sever them off of > > working boards... which I'm not inclined to do at the moment. > > There arent that many QBUS lines to drive. If I was to make a new QBUS > card I would use SOT-23 MOSFETs as the bus drivers, maybe with a 10 ohm > series resistor for output protection against VCC shorts and slew rate > limited gate drive... Full specs of the Qbus are available to evaluate a discrete replacement, but I know that some boards used 74LS240s in lieu of DC005 chips, etc. There are two aspects of attaching third-party devices to a DEC bus: bus drivers and bus receivers. Receivers are the more critical item if you are planning on deploying the device in a marginal backplane. Some of DEC's solutions included hand-selecting 74-series chips for low leakage current as well as a fistful of custom bus chips. In a single 9-slot "standard" Qbus backplane, you can get away with murder. It's when you want to have two or three loaded backplanes chained together that things get "interesting". Same goes for Unibus and OMNIBUS. At 25% of "max expansion", out of spec parts might not drag you down. Start filling the box and attaching it to long cables and you will probably have a different experience. I have plenty of 8641s, but not many of the other chips of the day (8881s, 8837s, etc.) I'm more interested in OMNIBUS attachment than Qbus attachment. I do have plenty of Unibus interface ICs (new and used), from my massive COMBOARD stockpile. -ethan From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 4 11:56:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT Message-ID: <200306041650.JAA18696@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I couldn't help but pass this on: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611062497&category=40129 later Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 4 12:00:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: <200306041655.JAA18700@clulw009.amd.com> Hi The right idea, wrong direction. I would think that a 60Hz inverter would work fine. You could get one of those automatic leveling battery chargers, a small gelcel and a 60Hz inverter. Dwight >From: "Bryan Blackburn" > >Wouldn't it be so much easier to make a power inverter to run at 50 Hz >and save all the time and expense of finding gears & etc. & etc.?? I >have a power inverter that would be a simple cap change (two of them) to >run 50 Hz. Output power is about 250 Watts now, maybe 175-200 at 50 Hz >(or would it be more?)? How much power does a 33 take? Discuss... > >-Bryan > >Tony Duell wrote: > >>>Hi >>> One could buy a new pulley and add some additional capacitance >>> >>> >> >>IIRC, the coupling between the motor and the rest of the mechnism >>consists of a pair of helically-cut gears on the end of the motor (one on >>the motor spindle, the other on a separate spindle). The driven gear is >>moulded integrally with a sprocket for a toothed belt that goes to a >>larger sprovket on the transmitter shaft. >> >>The gears are almost certainly custom parts and would not be easy to get >>now (unless you know of a souce of Model 33 parts...). Making them would >>also be non-trivial, I think, at least in most home workshops. >> >> > From jdickens at ameritech.net Wed Jun 4 12:17:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306042347.07282.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Wednesday 04 June 2003 08:38 am, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Not sure. There are extensive discussions on this list about that > > very topic. OTOH, I *think* the innards of the 690 are 110V, but the > > power distribution box might want 220. In that case, you can plug the > > CPU into its own 15A circuit and run the rest of the stuff off of a > > different circuit. yeah 2x 15A curcuits would not be a problem, but i think it might be 220v to the power supply and from then on the rest is just DC lines to each component, begining to think I should just forget about the whole deal, not worth the 500mile round trip drive and a hernia of moving a 600 lbs. beast... I figured out what i thougt was a masive powersupply drawer was really holding 5 or so Full Height SCSI drives that were either 1. 3. or 9 gig's each not really econmical to use these days given when the power to run them costs. especially if they are the 1 or 3 gig variety > > > > > I'm still a bit leary of plugging in a machine that requires that much > > > power. > > > > I can understand that. This stuff wasn't exactly designed for home > > use. > > Heh. here, 220VAC @ 20A is normal house wiring. Many houses here > are fed with 48A (new) or 60A (old), on three circuits. High power > circuits (dryers, arcos etc) are done on 380VAC (3-phase) here. > > My apartment now has the usual 3 220V (60A) circuits, two 380VAC > circuits, and a new 500VAC power line attached to the power stuff > downstairs :) that's a damm scary place to live as a child or a electrian... my son when he was about 3 thought it would be find to pee on a electrical outlet all it happened back then was sparks and smoke hate to think about what would happened at 380 or 500 vac? I ran over a extension cord on a electric lawn mower, i know an evil device, got quite a shock and it was only 110 15A curcuit i shiver to think of even 220v at 60A, i could of been dead with that much power going through me even for a short time i felt my shock... > > "Gee, sir... what ARE you going to do here.. would your hobby be > including devices such as electric chairs, perhaps??" > > *grin* > > :) > > --fred From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 4 12:50:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: AMP connector for DLV-11J" (Jun 4, 6:23) References: <20030604132350.81748.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10306041845.ZM3470@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 4, 6:23, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Peter Turnbull wrote: > > Most of the cables I've seen on these were made up using 2x5-way Berg > > connectors and individual Bergcon crimp pins. > > AFAIK, the connectors for a DLV11-J are 2x7-way... There are only nine > pins (one is missing for keying), but the extra bits help you center > the connector. 2x5 will work, if you don't miss. No, the DEC spec says 2x5. The connectors are AMP connectors; the ones on the DLV11-J itself are 87272-8 and the ones on a BC21B cable (for example) are 87133-5. You can fit a Bergcon 2x7 if you push hard, but it distorts the shroud slightly. All the cables I've ever seen, including original DEC, are 2x5 housings. If the key is in place, you can't really miss. > > You can still get them, but the pins are horrendously expensive in small > > quantities. > > No kidding. One other "problem" is that you need to stock one set of > pins for small connectors (like the DLV11-J) and another set of pins > for large connectors (like an RL8A - 40 pins) because there are different > mating forces. Yes, you can use the "wrong" pins, but they were spec'ed > different for a reason. "Weak" pins in a small connector might not > grab enough to stay in well enough, and "strong" pins in a large connector > might be too difficult to insert. Well, that's not "weak" and "strong" by design, it's for different sizes of square pins, or for round pins. Yes, I agree, don't use the wrong ones! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 4 13:18:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <3EDDF3B1.A300F92C@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Jun 4, 3 09:27:13 am Message-ID: > I don't want to rain on your parade, but just a suggestion - a motherboard > with an ISA slot is now almost impossible to find, new of course. And > a serial port is a bit slow. THis is a major problem, I am told. There are lots of custom ISA cards (varios special-purpose interfaces, measurement systems, etc) that never had PCI equivalents. There's nothing to plug them into when the old ISA-capable motherboards die. And of course (as I've moaned about several times), service docs and spares for PC motherboards are somewhat rarer than PERQ T4s... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 4 13:18:23 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Jun 3, 3 09:15:25 pm Message-ID: > On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On 2003.06.03 18:31 Al Kossow wrote: > > > > > > > If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow > > > > it to add to the documentation archive. > > > Do you mean: "RL01/RL02 User Guide" EK-RL012-UG-005? > > > (It contains installation, operation and detaild RL11 and RL8A > > > programming information.) > > > > No, there's a separate technical manual, which includes fairly complete > > circuit descriptions, PROM dumps, FRU replacement procedures, and so on. > > It's a very useful document. > > Is there a similar document for the RL8A, RL11, RLV11 or RLV12? I'd > really like to get enough documentation together to build a controller > that can work with other machines (maybe ISA bus, or more likely a > microcontroller with a nice sized chunk of cache ram and a serial port) to > facilitate getting data onto/off of RL02 disks. Really, I'm just looking > for the microcode PROM dump, or specs on the drive<->controller bus that The RLV11 prints contain a ROM dump. I don't think the RL11 prints do, but there's a rather complete timing diagram from which it's possible to deduce much of the ROM contents... The drive bus info can be deduced from the RL01 technical manual and/or the appropriate printsets (RL11, RLV11, RL01, RL02, etc). It didn't take me long to work out a design for a test box that does things like read out the drive's status, position the heads, select upper or lower head, etc. > are detailed enough to contain a 'protocol description'. An alternative approach (and one that I'd probably try) would be to use a real RL11 (or similar), a Unibus (or as applicable) RAM card, and a home-made bus master/arbiter that could tall the RL11 to read a sector (using DMA into the RAM card) and could then read out the RAM to the host computer. Doing something like that would let your PC (or whatever) talk to just about any small DEC disk drive using the appropriate Unibus controller. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 4 13:18:26 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Teletype In-Reply-To: <3EDD65DB.60404@cox.net> from "Bryan Blackburn" at Jun 3, 3 08:22:03 pm Message-ID: > Wouldn't it be so much easier to make a power inverter to run at 50 Hz The problem is that many simple/cheap inverters have _horrible_ output waveforms. Induction motors (as used in the Model 33) don't like them, and actually, the inverters don't much like highly inductive loads... > and save all the time and expense of finding gears & etc. & etc.?? I > have a power inverter that would be a simple cap change (two of them) to I believe we actually want a 60Hz inverter here. -tony From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jun 4 13:30:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <20030604131543.25027.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 15:15:43 CEST References: <200306040928.43286.jdickens@ameritech.net> <20030604131543.25027.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030604170139.S257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.04 15:15 Ethan Dicks wrote: > Linux for SPARC is a dog. This doesn't depend on the architecture it runs on. ;-) > It runs, but for certain architectures > (sun4c especially, which is a little newer than yours), > it's vastly suboptimal. The Sun 4/6xx is sun4m and that is newer then sun4c. In fact, the 4/6xx was the very first sun4m machine. > Given the age of the equipment, nobody wants to fix the problem, either. On Linux. NetBSD-current/sparc has gone multiprocessor recently. > If you aren't going to run Solaris, I'd recommend *BSD. BTW: You can patch Solaris 8 (and 9?) and get it on the 4/6xx. A friend did this with a 4/6xx board in a 3/60 case. But NetBSD would be a very good choice, especially if there isn't enough RAM... > I can understand that. This stuff wasn't exactly designed for home > use. I.e.: It makes a lot of fun. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 13:40:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was Re: DEC RL02 anyone need one?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030604183520.44302.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > An alternative approach (and one that I'd probably try) would be to use a > real RL11 (or similar), a Unibus (or as applicable) RAM card, and a > home-made bus master/arbiter that could tall the RL11 to read a sector > (using DMA into the RAM card) and could then read out the RAM to the host > computer. Doing something like that would let your PC (or whatever) talk > to just about any small DEC disk drive using the appropriate Unibus > controller. If you are going to do that, why not use a DEC CPU? It's a nice idea and all, but at that point, wouldn't a real PDP-11 be easier to talk to (and not much more expensive than a box with a controller and some RAM)? Why not just use a PDP-11/53 CPU board with local serial and on-board RAM? The trick then would be to whip up some kind of protocol between the PeeCee and the PDP-11 to manipulate the disk registers and fetch blocks on command. If you wanted something to transfer blocks faster, there are DRV11s that could blow the data out in parallel fashion. There's also the possibility of porting code from the 2BSD distribution to run out of a RAM disk... then you could even use existing drivers and talk to the PeeCee at a high level instead of proxy register tweaking. Except for the local RAM requirement for disk buffers, I could probably whip something together with a COMBOARD. Unfortunately for me, the model I'm most abundant in has COM5025 serial chip - the scarce models are later ones with a Zilog Z8530. If someone wants to design a microcontroller-based Qbus/Unibus register thumper from scratch, I'd consider building one. Best to define how to talk to it from the outside before getting too far along on the design. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 13:48:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: <10306041845.ZM3470@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030604184303.74757.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Peter Turnbull wrote: > No, the DEC spec says 2x5. The connectors are AMP connectors; the ones > on the DLV11-J itself are 87272-8 and the ones on a BC21B cable (for > example) are 87133-5. You can fit a Bergcon 2x7 if you push hard, but > it distorts the shroud slightly. All the cables I've ever seen, > including original DEC, are 2x5 housings. If the key is in place, you > can't really miss. I have some DEC loopback connectors that are 2x7, complete with DEC label tywrapped to the wire... I'll get a part number. I figured the real DEC cables used the same connector housing. > Well, that's not "weak" and "strong" by design, it's for different > sizes of square pins, or for round pins. Yes, I agree, don't use the > wrong ones! According to the specs I read, there's different insertion forces for different models of pins - spring tension in the pin body itself. Now... there _are_ different models for different size/shaped pins, but that's in addition to designated spring force. -ethan From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 4 13:49:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? References: <200306031838.h53Icpa6018053@spies.com> <3EDD095F.5020100@srv.net> Message-ID: <01b701c32ac9$172994e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Just thinking strange ideas. Wish I had some fiche to try. For non-paper applications I heartily reccomend a digital camera. I often "scan" things at effective 300 and 600 dpi by photographing them first and then resampling from grayscale to B&W. I hope it's obvious that a camera is the best way to digitize a projected image. John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 13:49:05 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <200306041650.JAA18696@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030604184431.7628.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi > I couldn't help but pass this on: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611062497&category=40129 > Did you notice all the 0-feedback bidding? Nevermind the dubious authenticity... I'm staying far away from that auction. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 13:55:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Hacking on a Sun 4/6xx (was Re: New to list...) In-Reply-To: <20030604170139.S257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030604185050.76006.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jochen Kunz wrote: > The Sun 4/6xx is sun4m and that is newer then sun4c. In fact, the 4/6xx > was the very first sun4m machine. Oh... I was thinking that the 4/6xx was a straight sun4, not sun4m or sun4d, etc. I do know the difference in the desktop line - my present home server is a SPARC5/110 (sun4m) that replaced a SPARCclassic and a SPARC-LX that preceeded it (as an aside, I've been attempting to surf lately on a Classic with Netscape 4.7... one word comes to mind... Ow!) > BTW: You can patch Solaris 8 (and 9?) and get it on the 4/6xx. A friend > did this with a 4/6xx board in a 3/60 case. But NetBSD would be a very > good choice, especially if there isn't enough RAM... I do recall there being a patch for a later version of Solaris (wasn't sure if it was 7 or 8), because all they did was to test the processor type early on and halt if it was a VME cage. Sun threatened to remove driver support for VME devices, but I don't know if the ever followed through with it. I looked at putting a large VME CPU in a 3/60 case... isn't there an issue with power distribution - i.e. the 4/6xx CPU depends on being in a real VME cage to get all the power pins lit up, and the 3/60 case only has one live connector. I think the 3/110 was the smallest chassis I heard of used to hold an unmodified 4/6xx CPU board. > > I can understand that. This stuff wasn't exactly designed for home > > use. > I.e.: It makes a lot of fun. :-) Naturally. I wouldn't have several 42" racks of DEC equipment in my basement (plus many 72" racks elsewhere) if I didn't think big stuff was fun! -ethan From patrick at evocative.com Wed Jun 4 15:04:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <20030604184431.7628.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > Hi > > I couldn't help but pass this on: > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611062497&cate > gory=40129 > > > > Did you notice all the 0-feedback bidding? > > Nevermind the dubious authenticity... I'm staying far away from that > auction. > > -ethan Yeah, and it seems a good bit, if not all, of the electronics were long-removed. So it's an expensive polished sphere. Oh well, my wife would succumb to spontaneous combustion if UPS dropped Sputnik on the porch, anyway. Patrick :-) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 4 15:11:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: AMP connector for DLV-11J" (Jun 4, 11:43) References: <20030604184303.74757.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10306042105.ZM3566@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 4, 11:43, Ethan Dicks wrote: > According to the specs I read, there's different insertion forces > for different models of pins - spring tension in the pin body itself. So there are -- three different ones in fact, though only on one series, mainly to accomodate large differences in the number of contacts per housing, as you said. Despite using the catalogue from time to time, I'd not appreciated that before. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Wed Jun 4 15:24:00 2003 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <3EDDF3B1.A300F92C@compsys.to> Message-ID: <19NejD-0yXEXI0@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:27:13 -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >> Is there a similar document for the RL8A, RL11, RLV11 or RLV12? I'd >> really like to get enough documentation together to build a controller >> that can work with other machines (maybe ISA bus, or more likely a http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/decimages/ rlv12.pdf http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/marco/rl02 _manual.pdf Greetings from Fritz Chwolka > www.alterechner.de < From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jun 4 15:49:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: References: <20030604184431.7628.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030604163901.01bce538@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Patrick Rigney may have mentioned these words: >Yeah, and it seems a good bit, if not all, of the electronics were >long-removed. So it's an expensive polished sphere. Which, at least to me, is pointless... :-/ >Oh well, my wife would succumb to spontaneous combustion if UPS dropped >Sputnik on the porch, anyway. Patrick :-) As long as her life insurance covered that particular form of demise, I'd think you'd be bidding that rascal up!!! ;-) *My wife* would just whack me in the head with it; so for that, I'd rather she used a much less expensive 2x4... Oh well, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 15:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030604204822.68238.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Rigney wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611062497&cate > > gory=40129 > > Yeah, and it seems a good bit, if not all, of the electronics were > long-removed. So it's an expensive polished sphere. I'm sure I could outfit a nice machine shop and hire some Russians to *make* me a replica for a lot less than the current bid price. :-) > Oh well, my wife would succumb to spontaneous combustion if UPS dropped > Sputnik on the porch, anyway. Patrick :-) If I had $25K to blow and I dropped it on _that_ instead of something interesting, like an Antarctic Total Eclipse Cruise (23-Nov-2003), I'd be in similar straits. -ethan From kth at srv.net Wed Jun 4 16:08:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT References: <20030604204822.68238.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EDE6852.6080601@srv.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Patrick Rigney wrote: > > >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611062497&cate >>>gory=40129 >>> >>> >>Yeah, and it seems a good bit, if not all, of the electronics were >>long-removed. So it's an expensive polished sphere. >> >> > >I'm sure I could outfit a nice machine shop and hire some Russians >to *make* me a replica for a lot less than the current bid price. :-) > > > >>Oh well, my wife would succumb to spontaneous combustion if UPS dropped >>Sputnik on the porch, anyway. Patrick :-) >> >> > >If I had $25K to blow and I dropped it on _that_ instead of something >interesting, like an Antarctic Total Eclipse Cruise (23-Nov-2003), >I'd be in similar straits. > > > The current bid is $500,700 (way above the buy-it-now price it originally had), so your bid of 25K is far short of the goal. But it still has about 24 hours to go, so get your bid in now. Or maybe you could bid on that Univac (one vacuum?) instead. It comes with a trailer. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jun 4 16:32:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Hacking on a Sun 4/6xx (was Re: New to list...) In-Reply-To: <20030604185050.76006.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 20:50:50 CEST References: <20030604170139.S257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20030604185050.76006.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030604225006.Y257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.04 20:50 Ethan Dicks wrote: > Oh... I was thinking that the 4/6xx was a straight sun4, It is more or less a SS10 in 9U VME form factor. (Or the SS10 is a 4/6xx in a pizza case without VME adapter.) > (as an aside, I've been attempting to surf lately on a Classic > with Netscape 4.7... one word comes to mind... Ow!) Ewwww. A Clasic might be the slowest sun4m machine ever build. AFAIK it is comparable in "slowness" to a IPX. Hmmm, sun.hardware.FAQ.txt: SPARCclassic (SPARCclassic Server)(SPARCstation LC) (4/15) Processor(s): microSPARC @ 50MHz, 59.1 MIPS, 4.6 MFLOPS, 26.4 SPECint92, 21.0 SPECfp92, 626 SPECintRate92, 498 SPECfpRate92 SPARCstation IPX (4/50) Processor(s): Fujitsu MB86903 or Weitek W8701 @ 40MHz, FPU on CPU chip, Sun-4c MMU, 8 hardware contexts, 28.5 MIPS, 4.2 MFLOPS, 21.8 SPECint92, 21.5 SPECfp92, 517 SPECintRate92, 510 SPECfpRate92 > I looked at putting a large VME CPU in a 3/60 case... isn't there an > issue with power distribution - Yes. The 3/60 case doesn't deliver -12 V. The 4/6xx CPU needs -12 V at a few mA only for the serial lines. It will run with a framebuffer, but you can't use the serial lines. I solved this problem with a simple charge pump voltage inverter that generates about -10 V from +12 V that I mounted in the 3/60 PSU. I have a shematic in PS somewhere. > Naturally. I wouldn't have several 42" racks of DEC equipment in my > basement (plus many 72" racks elsewhere) if I didn't think big stuff > was fun! Well, as long as you don't need 30 A (smal config, peak 130 A at power on) three phase 400 V power for a single computer... (I know someone with a machine like that.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 16:38:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <3EDE6852.6080601@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030604213331.2767.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Handy wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > The current bid is $500,700 (way above the buy-it-now price it > originally had), so your bid of 25K is far short of the goal. Holy Sh*t, Batman! It was $25K the last time I looked (4 bids or so). That is beyond absurd. > But it still has about 24 hours to go, so get your bid in now. Riiiight. -ethan From geoff at hasker.net Wed Jun 4 16:43:01 2003 From: geoff at hasker.net (Geoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 Message-ID: <09b501c32ae1$abe86c10$6400a8c0@geoff> I have come across what seems to be a remote outlet/power sequencer device from the Systems Enhancement Corporation called the Power Administrator 800. On the rear it has two DB-9 male ports, which I assume can be used to program this device. It also has an Ethernet port and a few RJ-11 ports labeled "IN", "R1," and "R2." Additionally, a DB-15f port with the label "out" exists. I have tried to connect to the device using 9600/8/N/1 over the two serial ports (DB-9) using both a straight and null-modem cable, but my terminal emulator senses nothing. A bank of 8 dip switches exists with the label "config." I contacted the manufacturer, but they claim all of this information is archived and they do not have access to it. Does anyone have any ideas on how to communicate with this device? It powers on and supplies electricity to its six receptacles. Thanks, Geoff From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 16:50:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Hacking on a Sun 4/6xx (was Re: New to list...) In-Reply-To: <20030604225006.Y257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030604214518.23134.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jochen Kunz wrote: > > (as an aside, I've been attempting to surf lately on a Classic > > with Netscape 4.7... one word comes to mind... Ow!) > Ewwww. A Clasic might be the slowest sun4m machine ever build. It is. OTOH, I paid $5 for it several years ago (diskless with 24MB of RAM and a password-protected NVRAM ;-) At the same time, a SS5 was running around $150-$300, depending on what add-ons were under the hood. By comparison, SS5s were $35-$50 at Dayton last year, as were SS10s and SS20s this year. > AFAIK it is comparable in "slowness" to a IPX. Double the raw MIPS, but not really any faster in practice. The advantage is a) memory size (128MB max vs 64MB) and compatibility with later versions of Solaris (because it's a sun4m, not a sun4c). The OpenBoot PROM is newer, but that matters little when running. No speed daemon, but the Classic has a little more longevity than an IPX. > > I looked at putting a large VME CPU in a 3/60 case... isn't there an > > issue with power distribution - > Yes. The 3/60 case doesn't deliver -12 V. The 4/6xx CPU needs -12 V at a > few mA only for the serial lines. It will run with a framebuffer, but > you can't use the serial lines. *That* was it. Thanks. I had wanted to test the 4/6xx, but for reasons I don't recall, I wasn't able to use a framebuffer (I know I had plenty of CG3 and CG6 cards lying around). In the end, I gave up and swapped that 4/6xx board for a couple of IPXs and some assorted accessories. I did later sell the IPXs for a fair sheckel, so I think I came out on top of the deal. The 4/6xx board had 0MB of RAM and an old Ross CPU, so it wasn't exactly the most valuable thing at the time, but I'm not sure I would trade it now if I had it to do all over again. > Well, as long as you don't need 30 A (smal config, peak 130 A at power > on) three phase 400 V power for a single computer... (I know someone > with a machine like that.) Nope... my max power requirements at home are satisfied by a 30A 110V single-phase receptacle (installed) and a 20A 110V outlet (for the DEC 4000-710 - not yet installed). Everything else just plugs into ordinary wall sockets. -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 4 16:55:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was Re: In-Reply-To: <20030604183520.44302.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 4, 3 11:35:20 am Message-ID: > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > An alternative approach (and one that I'd probably try) would be to use a > > real RL11 (or similar), a Unibus (or as applicable) RAM card, and a > > home-made bus master/arbiter that could tall the RL11 to read a sector > > (using DMA into the RAM card) and could then read out the RAM to the host > > computer. Doing something like that would let your PC (or whatever) talk > > to just about any small DEC disk drive using the appropriate Unibus > > controller. > > If you are going to do that, why not use a DEC CPU? I thought about suggesting that, but the hardware hacker in me wants to keep it as simple as possible :-). I think I could make a Unibus master and arbiter in a handful of TTL chips (look at the releveant bits of a Unibus CPU printset -- it's not that complicated). Using a CPU sounds like overkill.. There's also the issue that I wanted to keep stuff 'out of the way' I was thinking it would be useful if the new host could do _anything_ to the disk controller (that's one good reason to avoidthe BSD device drivers, actually). > Why not just use a PDP-11/53 CPU board with local serial and on-board I don;t have one :-) Anyway, I'm more of a Unibus person... > If someone wants to design a microcontroller-based Qbus/Unibus register > thumper from scratch, I'd consider building one. Best to define how > to talk to it from the outside before getting too far along on the design. It's a pity that computers with lots of parallel I/O lines are so uncommon, and the user ports are out of fashion now... One thing I would _love_ to find is a portable-ish machine which can write a disk that's readable on a PC, and which has at least 32 parallel I/O lines, totally user controllable. At the moment I'm using an HP71, a 9114 disk drive, an 82165 GPIO interface and some homebrew hardware (which is still undergoing hackery). Pity HP never made a real user port for HPIL.... -tony From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 4 17:12:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was Re: DEC RL02 anyone need one?) In-Reply-To: <20030604183520.44302.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > An alternative approach (and one that I'd probably try) would be to use a > > real RL11 (or similar), a Unibus (or as applicable) RAM card, and a > > home-made bus master/arbiter that could tall the RL11 to read a sector > > (using DMA into the RAM card) and could then read out the RAM to the host > > computer. Doing something like that would let your PC (or whatever) talk > > to just about any small DEC disk drive using the appropriate Unibus > > controller. > > If you are going to do that, why not use a DEC CPU? > > It's a nice idea and all, but at that point, wouldn't a real PDP-11 > be easier to talk to (and not much more expensive than a box with > a controller and some RAM)? Why, that's no fun! I already have QBUS machines laying around I could do that with (I don't think I have a working RLV12, however). I'm also working on getting another machine with another RL controller to make this work. This is just something I'd like to be able to play with. A hardware project to work on 'getting my hands dirty'. > Why not just use a PDP-11/53 CPU board with local serial and on-board > RAM? The trick then would be to whip up some kind of protocol between > the PeeCee and the PDP-11 to manipulate the disk registers and fetch > blocks on command. If you wanted something to transfer blocks faster, > there are DRV11s that could blow the data out in parallel fashion. > There's also the possibility of porting code from the 2BSD distribution > to run out of a RAM disk... then you could even use existing drivers > and talk to the PeeCee at a high level instead of proxy register tweaking. > > Except for the local RAM requirement for disk buffers, I could probably > whip something together with a COMBOARD. Unfortunately for me, the model > I'm most abundant in has COM5025 serial chip - the scarce models are > later ones with a Zilog Z8530. > > If someone wants to design a microcontroller-based Qbus/Unibus register > thumper from scratch, I'd consider building one. Best to define how > to talk to it from the outside before getting too far along on the design. I tend to like either serial or ethernet for interfaces, because they're fairly simple and nearly universal. This might be an interesting summer project... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 4 17:14:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <19NejD-0yXEXI0@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Fritz Chwolka wrote: > On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:27:13 -0400, Jerome H. Fine > wrote: > > >>Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > >> Is there a similar document for the RL8A, RL11, RLV11 or RLV12? I'd > >> really like to get enough documentation together to build a controller > >> that can work with other machines (maybe ISA bus, or more likely a > > http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/decimages/ > rlv12.pdf > http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/marco/rl02 > _manual.pdf I already have copies of those, and IIRC, they don't have any specs on the control 'messages' passed between things, a PROM dump, or anything else that is helpful for figuring out how to send commands to the drive. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 4 17:23:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 In-Reply-To: <09b501c32ae1$abe86c10$6400a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Geoff wrote: > have tried to connect to the device using 9600/8/N/1 over the two serial ports > (DB-9) using both a straight and null-modem cable, but my terminal emulator > senses nothing. A bank of 8 dip switches exists with the label "config." I Have you considered trying settings other than 9600/8/N/1? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jun 4 17:30:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks's message of "Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:33:31 -0700 (PDT)" References: <20030604213331.2767.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200306042206.h54M6ubF005099@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Kevin Handy wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > The current bid is $500,700 (way above the buy-it-now price it > > originally had), so your bid of 25K is far short of the goal. > > Holy Sh*t, Batman! It was $25K the last time I looked (4 bids or > so). > > That is beyond absurd. The current high bidder, urban-motion, has another auction up with this in the description: I am a 27 year old father with a newborn daughter and bills to pay. I work one full time and one part time job totalling 40-60 hours a week and I love to write in my spare time. To help supplement our income I sell a variety of things on Ebay and look for creative ways to honestly make a buck. So, I thought that I could write original poetry for you and also increase your feedback rating at the same time. By purchasing this auction, I will write you an original poem and leave you wonderful positive feedback. The poem will be completely 100% original and will be emailed to you within 24 hours of payment. Feedback will be left as soon as I receive payment. Payment is accepted through paypal only using any major credit card. Thanks for looking and god bless!!!!! I am not making this up, you can see it yourself at: -Frank McConnell From aek at spies.com Wed Jun 4 17:31:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306042228.h54MSJJF027286@spies.com> I already have copies of those, and IIRC, they don't have any specs on the control 'messages' passed between things, a PROM dump, or anything else that is helpful for figuring out how to send commands to the drive. --- Sounds like Tony has figured this out already to build the test box. Would you be willing to publish the info that you've figured out, Tony? --- From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 4 17:39:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306042347.07282.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > that's a damm scary place to live as a child or a electrian... my son when he > was about 3 thought it would be find to pee on a electrical outlet all it > happened back then was sparks and smoke hate to think about what would > happened at 380 or 500 vac? That's why we learn (at young age ;-) not to pee on wires. Really. [ I will not tell you about how I tricked my younger sis into holding two knitting pins stuck into an outlet, as this would surely give you the impression i am evil. hmm. i was, perhaps ;-] > I ran over a extension cord on a electric lawn mower, i know an evil device, > got quite a shock and it was only 110 15A curcuit i shiver to think of > even 220v at 60A, i could of been dead with that much power going through me > even for a short time i felt my shock... Oh, I have enjoyed quite a few shocks myself, and hey, I'm still around... --fred From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Jun 4 18:35:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs question.. Message-ID: <1054769418.12174.14.camel@crusader> Hi, all.. ( Gee, I get to ask a legitimate classic comp question.. ) Anyways, I've a A2GS sitting here, that I've been beating myself over the head with for about two days now.. (Yes, I'm stubborn) I've been trying to get ADT (serial) working between the GS, and my PC. I've gotten it to work just fine PC -> GS. (I even had my PC type a copy of Dos3.3/ADT/ADTgs in via the serial port at 300baud.) Anyways the stumper is in the GS -> PC direction. Nothing works. I've tried the modem port on the GS, as well as 2 different super serial cards. I finally got desperate enough to pull out a RS-232 break out box, and a scope. (Plus a couple of dweebie basic programs) What I find is the Apple serial communications looks like its running at about +/- 4v. (This is on the builtin modem port. I can't get a SSC to work either.) (The waveform also appears to have a fair amount of ring on the voltage swings, but that may be normal) I'm guessing that the +/-4volts isn't enough for my PC to recognize it. Question #1: Does anyone have any thoughts about my theory that the PSU is weak, or suggestions where else to look? Question #2: Presuming question #1 is reasonable, schematics for a GS PSU? Thanks, David From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 4 18:40:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Slightly OT Message-ID: <200306042334.QAA18944@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I find it hard to believe that he'll come up with 1/2 mil to pay for this if he is willing to write poetry for $1. Other than the fact that the seller has a reasonable record, the sale sure seems funny. Most other auctions that sell high value items require the buyers to post a bond. It doesn't sound like this guy could post a parking ticket bond. Still, if this was truly one of the original prototypes, it is in some sense priceless. I don't know if the reason given for removing the transmitter is valid. My undestanding was that the circuit was quite simple and didn't require significant secret circuits. It would be more likely that, like our own NASA, even prototype items were often used in real missions to save cost. Dwight >From: "Frank McConnell" > >Ethan Dicks wrote: >> --- Kevin Handy wrote: >> > Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >> > The current bid is $500,700 (way above the buy-it-now price it >> > originally had), so your bid of 25K is far short of the goal. >> >> Holy Sh*t, Batman! It was $25K the last time I looked (4 bids or >> so). >> >> That is beyond absurd. > >The current high bidder, urban-motion, has another auction up with >this in the description: > > I am a 27 year old father with a newborn daughter and bills to > pay. I work one full time and one part time job totalling 40-60 > hours a week and I love to write in my spare time. To help > supplement our income I sell a variety of things on Ebay and look > for creative ways to honestly make a buck. So, I thought that I > could write original poetry for you and also increase your > feedback rating at the same time. By purchasing this auction, I > will write you an original poem and leave you wonderful positive > feedback. > > The poem will be completely 100% original and will be emailed to > you within 24 hours of payment. Feedback will be left as soon as I > receive payment. > > Payment is accepted through paypal only using any major credit > card. > > Thanks for looking and god bless!!!!! > >I am not making this up, you can see it yourself at: > > > >-Frank McConnell From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jun 4 18:56:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Geoff wrote: > > > have tried to connect to the device using 9600/8/N/1 over the two > > serial ports (DB-9) using both a straight and null-modem cable, but my > > terminal emulator senses nothing. A bank of 8 dip switches exists > > with the label "config." I > > Have you considered trying settings other than 9600/8/N/1? I have some gear that speaks 1200/7/E/2 on the serial port that is used for configuration. I've found 1200 seems to be very common for simple configuration or switching type gear, such as UPS and power distribution devices. I guess this could be due to the fact you can often get away with much longer cable runs at lower speeds. Have you opened up the device to see what kind of microcontroller/EPROM(s) it might contain? I've managed to figure out how to control a few devices by looking at their EPROM contents. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 4 19:02:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <200306042228.h54MSJJF027286@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Jun 4, 3 03:28:19 pm Message-ID: > I already have copies of those, and IIRC, they don't have any specs on the > control 'messages' passed between things, a PROM dump, or anything else > that is helpful for figuring out how to send commands to the drive. > > --- > > Sounds like Tony has figured this out already to build the test box. > Would you be willing to publish the info that you've figured out, Tony? Of course... I don't keep secrets from the classic computer crowd :-) The stuff below is all from memory, so I might be mistaken about something. Much of it was obvious to me from the printset for the controller and drive, though, and to be honest, if you can't figure out the details from said scheamtics I don't think you'll be able to design your own controller. Firstly remember I was only trying to move the head around and request status. I didn't actually try to read or write data. I do know that the data interface to the RL is a low-level one, essentially the bitstream to/from the head, so the controller hss to separate data and clock, work out what sector it is, etc. That bit I didn't attempt. The interface is all differential TTL-level-ish signals. I think I used 26LS31s as drivers and 26LS32s as receivers. The controller also has to supply the 'energiser' clock. This is a somewhat odd freqeuncy IIRC. To send a command, you send a 16 bit serial bitstream to the drive. Some of the bits are the 'cylinder offset' (how far to move the heads), another is the direction, yet another is the side select bit. IIRC, the order of bits is exactly as given in the programming information for the RL11 controller. To request status, you send it a command with a particular bit set. The drive then sends 16 bits back to the controller. What you get is, again, exactly as documented in the programming manuals. I will dig out the details of the strobe signals, etc to send/receive commands. That should be a start, anyhow -tony From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 19:13:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs question.. In-Reply-To: <1054769418.12174.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: Sounds like a weak PSU, I have had no trouble using ADT on a IIgs. How much stuff do you have connected to it? I know I have found that after two Unidisk 5.25's, two 3.5" drives, two Disk II's, a SCSI card, RAM expansion, etc, etc, it the computer sometimes can't get the juice to power drives, I/O, etc (especially those pesky Disk II's)... Try measuring voltages at the power supply, it should have the pinouts printed on it IIRC. If you want, I have a spare IIgs or two that you can have for a few bucks plus shipping. I also have IIe's and floppy drives as well, if you want. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Wednesday, June 4, 2003, at 07:30 PM, David Holland wrote: > Hi, all.. > > ( Gee, I get to ask a legitimate classic comp question.. ) > > Anyways, I've a A2GS sitting here, that I've been beating myself over > the head with for about two days now.. (Yes, I'm stubborn) > > I've been trying to get ADT (serial) working between the GS, and my PC. > > I've gotten it to work just fine PC -> GS. (I even had my PC type a > copy of Dos3.3/ADT/ADTgs in via the serial port at 300baud.) > > Anyways the stumper is in the GS -> PC direction. Nothing works. I've > tried the modem port on the GS, as well as 2 different super serial > cards. > > I finally got desperate enough to pull out a RS-232 break out box, and > a > scope. (Plus a couple of dweebie basic programs) What I find is the > Apple serial communications looks like its running at about +/- 4v. > (This is on the builtin modem port. I can't get a SSC to work > either.) > (The waveform also appears to have a fair amount of ring on the voltage > swings, but that may be normal) > > I'm guessing that the +/-4volts isn't enough for my PC to recognize it. > > Question #1: > Does anyone have any thoughts about my theory that the PSU is weak, or > suggestions where else to look? > > Question #2: > Presuming question #1 is reasonable, schematics for a GS PSU? > > Thanks, > > David From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Jun 4 19:57:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs question.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Wandered downstairs, and dug out my pile of parts. (and more importantly a spare ROM 01 system.) My testing was on a ROM 03. Thanks for the parts offers, I think I've enough parts now though.. (The wife eye's me evilly every time I drag out my parts pile anyways :-) ) I checked the voltages. The worst I saw as -10.2v (on what aledged to be the -12v pin) on the ROM03. The ROM 01's voltages were all pretty normal. There's nothing else plugged into the systems for the last couple of tests I just ran. This scope I have is fairly old, and probably not terribly accurate, but about the best I've seen is +/- 4.9v. Neither the ROM 01, nor the ROM 03 will talk to the PC. At this point, I'm wondering if the IIgs's normal "serial" is on the low side of valid, and my PC's (mis)wired for the high side. I'll try the serial ports on my Linux firewall. Data sheet for the AM26LS30's on the thing doesn't make sense to me either at this point.. but that's besides the point.. Anybody got a schematic for the whole GS? :-) David On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > Sounds like a weak PSU, I have had no trouble using ADT on a IIgs. How > much stuff do you have connected to it? I know I have found that after > two Unidisk 5.25's, two 3.5" drives, two Disk II's, a SCSI card, RAM > expansion, etc, etc, it the computer sometimes can't get the juice to > power drives, I/O, etc (especially those pesky Disk II's)... Try > measuring voltages at the power supply, it should have the pinouts > printed on it IIRC. If you want, I have a spare IIgs or two that you > can have for a few bucks plus shipping. I also have IIe's and floppy > drives as well, if you want. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Jun 4 20:49:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:07 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs question.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I now consider myself an idiot. (again) My 9 pin serial cable was not plugged in good.. It was plugged in just enough that I could transmit from the PC, but not enough to received. So, that's what those little thumbscrews are for.. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming. David On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, David Holland wrote: > Hi, > > Wandered downstairs, and dug out my pile of parts. > (and more importantly a spare ROM 01 system.) My testing was on a ROM 03. > > Thanks for the parts offers, I think I've enough parts now though.. > (The wife eye's me evilly every time I drag out my parts pile anyways :-) ) > > I checked the voltages. > > The worst I saw as -10.2v (on what aledged to be the -12v pin) on the ROM03. > > The ROM 01's voltages were all pretty normal. > > There's nothing else plugged into the systems for the last couple of tests > I just ran. This scope I have is fairly old, and probably not terribly > accurate, but about the best I've seen is +/- 4.9v. > > Neither the ROM 01, nor the ROM 03 will talk to the PC. > > At this point, I'm wondering if the IIgs's normal "serial" is on the > low side of valid, and my PC's (mis)wired for the high side. I'll > try the serial ports on my Linux firewall. > > Data sheet for the AM26LS30's on the thing doesn't make sense to me either > at this point.. but that's besides the point.. > > Anybody got a schematic for the whole GS? :-) > > David > > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > > Sounds like a weak PSU, I have had no trouble using ADT on a IIgs. How > > much stuff do you have connected to it? I know I have found that after > > two Unidisk 5.25's, two 3.5" drives, two Disk II's, a SCSI card, RAM > > expansion, etc, etc, it the computer sometimes can't get the juice to > > power drives, I/O, etc (especially those pesky Disk II's)... Try > > measuring voltages at the power supply, it should have the pinouts > > printed on it IIRC. If you want, I have a spare IIgs or two that you > > can have for a few bucks plus shipping. I also have IIe's and floppy > > drives as well, if you want. > > > > Ian Primus > > ian_primus@yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 21:25:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was Re: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030605022016.12617.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > If you are going to do that, why not use a DEC CPU? > > I thought about suggesting that, but the hardware hacker in me wants to > keep it as simple as possible :-) I understand. I'm both a software and a hardware hacker, so I don't mind moving the set-point over a bit for a combination solution. > I think I could make a Unibus master and arbiter in a handful of TTL > chips (look at the releveant bits of a Unibus CPU printset -- it's not > that complicated). Using a CPU sounds like overkill.. Overkill from one sense, but it depends on how elaborate you'd want it to be. > There's also the issue that I wanted to keep stuff 'out of the way' I was > thinking it would be useful if the new host could do _anything_ to the > disk controller (that's one good reason to avoidthe BSD device drivers, > actually). True. > > Why not just use a PDP-11/53 CPU board with local serial and on-board > > I don;t have one :-) Good reason. :-) > Anyway, I'm more of a Unibus person... Fair enough. I do both (plus VAXBI) since I used to make all of that kind of stuff for a living. Personally, I have a lot of experience with Qbus machines because that's what was popular when I began to take over the hardware department. I still love Unibus stuff, though. > It's a pity that computers with lots of parallel I/O lines are so > uncommon, and the user ports are out of fashion now... No doubt. I did a lot of stuff with the User Port on the PET and C-64 (the Simon clone from Byte, an external big-key keyboard, a 2-digit 7-segment display, a high-speed CBM interconnect, a rudimentary IEEE-488 tracer, etc.) > One thing I would _love_ to find is a portable-ish machine which can > write a disk that's readable on a PC, and which has at least 32 parallel > I/O lines, totally user controllable. Hmm... you'll laugh... my SBC-6120 w/IOB-6120 fits the bill... the IOB-6120 has 36 I/O lines that are designatable I, O or Z by PDP-8 IOTs, and a CF socket, and the base SBC-6120 has an IDE port. The CF cards/disks do not use a DOS-compatible partition scheme, but can be read/written-to by DOS utilities. I have a ZIP drive backpack battery that can power it, or I can drive it from the PS/2 port of my laptop. You could even modify the FPGA code to make the 36 I/O pins be something other than plain vanilla I/O lines, if that were necessary for timing reasons. I wonder how hard it would be to add an RL8A to the IOB-6120... I better finish assembling one first, before I start trying to enhance it. :-) -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 21:45:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <200306042334.QAA18944@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030605024024.20270.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi > I find it hard to believe that he'll come up with > 1/2 mil to pay for this if he is willing to write poetry > for $1. Maybe his eBay account got hijacked. Seriously. -ethan > Most other auctions that sell high value items require > the buyers to post a bond. It doesn't sound like this > guy could post a parking ticket bond. I also doubt the sellers expected the price to go that high: they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee... Who wants to give back 5E+05 dollars? > Still, if this was truly one of the original prototypes, > it is in some sense priceless. I don't know if the reason > given for removing the transmitter is valid. My undestanding > was that the circuit was quite simple and didn't require > significant secret circuits. It would be more likely that, > like our own NASA, even prototype items were often used > in real missions to save cost. It's also possible that it was never intended to be flight-worthy. Look at the Enterprise. -ethan From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jun 4 23:35:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT References: <20030605024024.20270.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EDEC77F.4020909@eoni.com> Walked in in the middle of the conversation... We talking about the Sputnik on epay right now? If so, there is some question of its authenticity.... (haven't seen the auction, just reading the newspapers.) As the curator of the NASM said (they have one) "Provenance is everything." $66mil? Yeah, right..... Jim From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jun 4 23:48:00 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT References: <20030605024024.20270.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> <3EDEC77F.4020909@eoni.com> Message-ID: <02fb01c32b1d$0ba69ba0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 2:00 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT > Walked in in the middle of the conversation... > > We talking about the Sputnik on epay right now? If so, there is some > question of its authenticity.... (haven't seen the auction, just reading > the newspapers.) As the curator of the NASM said (they have one) > "Provenance is everything." > > $66mil? Yeah, right..... Current bid US $90,000,500.00 Who's that silly? Cheers Geoff in Oz From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jun 4 23:52:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306042347.07282.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: <200306042347.07282.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <3EDEC932.9020203@internet1.net> jamesd wrote: > yeah 2x 15A curcuits would not be a problem, but i think it might be 220v to > the power supply and from then on the rest is just DC lines to each > component, begining to think I should just forget about the whole deal, not > worth the 500mile round trip drive and a hernia of moving a 600 lbs. beast... > > I figured out what i thougt was a masive powersupply drawer was really holding > 5 or so Full Height SCSI drives that were either 1. 3. or 9 gig's each not > really econmical to use these days given when the power to run them costs. > especially if they are the 1 or 3 gig variety Wow, thats even farther than it would be for me. I'm at 370 miles. Those drives are very nice reliable drives, though. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 5 00:00:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <200306042334.QAA18944@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200306042334.QAA18944@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3EDECB32.80205@internet1.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I find it hard to believe that he'll come up with > 1/2 mil to pay for this if he is willing to write poetry > for $1. I got an invalid item when trying to view the "poetry auction", so maybe Ebay has started looking into this auction, bidders included. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 5 00:05:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs question.. In-Reply-To: <1054769418.12174.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: On 4 Jun 2003, David Holland wrote: > I finally got desperate enough to pull out a RS-232 break out box, and a > scope. (Plus a couple of dweebie basic programs) What I find is the > Apple serial communications looks like its running at about +/- 4v. > (This is on the builtin modem port. I can't get a SSC to work either.) > (The waveform also appears to have a fair amount of ring on the voltage > swings, but that may be normal) > > I'm guessing that the +/-4volts isn't enough for my PC to recognize it. Have you tried a different cable? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jdickens at ameritech.net Thu Jun 5 00:09:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <3EDEC932.9020203@internet1.net> References: <200306042347.07282.jdickens@ameritech.net> <3EDEC932.9020203@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200306051139.12874.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Wednesday 04 June 2003 11:38 pm, Chad Fernandez wrote: > jamesd wrote: > > yeah 2x 15A curcuits would not be a problem, but i think it might be 220v > > to the power supply and from then on the rest is just DC lines to each > > component, begining to think I should just forget about the whole deal, > > not worth the 500mile round trip drive and a hernia of moving a 600 lbs. > > beast... > > > > I figured out what i thougt was a masive powersupply drawer was really > > holding 5 or so Full Height SCSI drives that were either 1. 3. or 9 gig's > > each not really econmical to use these days given when the power to run > > them costs. especially if they are the 1 or 3 gig variety > > Wow, thats even farther than it would be for me. I'm at 370 miles. > > Those drives are very nice reliable drives, though. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA it was 266 each way for me... i'm in milwaukee.... yeah the drives will probably out last any modern PC type power supply you connect them too... whitch should be about 8 hours of life.... for the powersupply that is... James Wisconsin, USA From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 00:14:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306051139.12874.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20030605050944.37759.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- jamesd wrote: > it was 266 each way for me... i'm in milwaukee.... Was? I thought you hadn't gone yet. I was going to say... all this talk about old Sun hardware and I'm minded to ask if you do go and you don't want to haul the 4/6xx, if you'd pull the CPU board and ship it to me for a reasonable amount. I still have this 3/60 case here... -ethan From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 5 00:30:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <02fb01c32b1d$0ba69ba0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> References: <20030605024024.20270.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> <3EDEC77F.4020909@eoni.com> <02fb01c32b1d$0ba69ba0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <3EDED1CB.7070604@internet1.net> Geoff Roberts wrote: > Current bid US $90,000,500.00 > > Who's that silly? > > Cheers > > Geoff in Oz Not anymore! It seems it has more bid cancellations than bids!! All the cancellations are due to "Administrative Cancellation", except one that says "entered wrong bid amount". It seems to be going down progressively..... I see 26100.00 now. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 5 01:03:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT References: <20030605024024.20270.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> <3EDEC77F.4020909@eoni.com> <02fb01c32b1d$0ba69ba0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <3EDED1CB.7070604@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3EDEDC11.1060307@eoni.com> And Sputnik just went invalid as well..... As I was watching. jim Chad Fernandez wrote: > Geoff Roberts wrote: > >> Current bid US $90,000,500.00 >> Who's that silly? >> >> Cheers >> >> Geoff in Oz > > > Not anymore! It seems it has more bid cancellations than bids!! All > the cancellations are due to "Administrative Cancellation", except one > that says "entered wrong bid amount". > > It seems to be going down progressively..... I see 26100.00 now. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > . From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 5 01:04:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306051139.12874.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: <200306042347.07282.jdickens@ameritech.net> <3EDEC932.9020203@internet1.net> <200306051139.12874.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <3EDED9F0.4000405@internet1.net> jamesd wrote: > it was 266 each way for me... i'm in milwaukee.... Oh that was round trip? I didn't see that part. 370 was one way for me :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 5 01:05:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <3EDED1CB.7070604@internet1.net> References: <20030605024024.20270.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> <3EDEC77F.4020909@eoni.com> <02fb01c32b1d$0ba69ba0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <3EDED1CB.7070604@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3EDEDA58.5040907@internet1.net> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Not anymore! It seems it has more bid cancellations than bids!! All > the cancellations are due to "Administrative Cancellation", except one > that says "entered wrong bid amount". > > It seems to be going down progressively..... I see 26100.00 now. Looks like the whole auction has gone invalid now! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Thu Jun 5 01:20:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 References: <09b501c32ae1$abe86c10$6400a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <089801c32b29$cd19a7d0$0100a8c0@athlon> Maybe you drive it over the Ethernet port- I saw one of those devices a couple of days back that had 8 or 10 power outlets, the DIP switch and a single Ethernet port. Nothing else. Going to try and score it too, but 'he-who-has-it' is still considering if he really wants it! DaveB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:38 AM Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 > I have come across what seems to be a remote outlet/power sequencer device > from the Systems Enhancement Corporation called the Power Administrator 800. > On the rear it has two DB-9 male ports, which I assume can be used to program > this device. It also has an Ethernet port and a few RJ-11 ports labeled "IN", > "R1," and "R2." Additionally, a DB-15f port with the label "out" exists. I > have tried to connect to the device using 9600/8/N/1 over the two serial ports > (DB-9) using both a straight and null-modem cable, but my terminal emulator > senses nothing. A bank of 8 dip switches exists with the label "config." I > contacted the manufacturer, but they claim all of this information is archived > and they do not have access to it. Does anyone have any ideas on how to > communicate with this device? It powers on and supplies electricity to its > six receptacles. > > Thanks, > > Geoff From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 5 06:19:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030605030820.0333b5a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 01:34 PM 6/2/03 -0400, chris wrote: >I just aquired (won on ebay, totally forgot I bid on it), a pretty neat >little Apple item I never knew existed. > >Its an RGB -> NTSC modulator for the Apple IIc. It also came with a >game/TV switch box, but I don't know if that was originally part of the >package, or just a seperate item that was included in the auction. COOL I don't know anythng about them, but have been curious for some time. Please report all you know, post picts, play with it, etc. OTOH maybe I am thinking about the thing for the IIc+ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jun 5 06:44:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards Message-ID: <20030605113933.91238.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I came across a whole boxful of Apple II cards at the weekend that I'd forgotten I actually owned. Unfortunately nearly all of my Apple hardware is too far buried to really dig out at the moment and play around with any of this stuff, but there's still a few cards that I'd be interested in finding more about if possible and getting necessary software for. Card images [640x480 resolution and around 60KB or thereabouts] are at: http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/apple2 PAL Colour Card: No idea as to manufacturer; mainly analogue circuitry on board plus the modulator and a bit of TTL. Am I likely to need software for this to work with a UK TV? IC Test Card: Made by a Japanese company called Fairy, given the 20-pin ZIF socket that (I assume) goes with this, I imagine it's a tester for TTL logic chips. Most of the card's logic is buried beneath black gloop with black cardboard over the top, so who knows what's under there - the 40-pin chip with the 'test OK' sticker on it has had the markings ground off too. Anyone heard of one of these or have software for one? Vitalograph card: I gather Vitalograph these days make medical equipment. Whether this card is from the same company or not I don't know - and ideas what the 3-pin (XLR?) connector would have hooked up to? Some TTL on board, some OP-amp chips. 40-pin chip is a 6522. All chips are date-coded 1980 or 1981. Z80 Card: Actually a "Z80 Card II" made by Creative. Presumably software exists for one of these somewhere still. No on-board memory, and 4 unknown DIP-switches in the lower-right corner. CPU is Z80-A, card seems to have been made in late 1982. ROM Card: No idea what this is; presumably the 6 ROMs (2716 chips) contain utilities that could have been accessed under software control? No idea what the switch at the rear edge of the card does either. 80-column card: Marked as 'Chinex' and made by Creative, presumably necessary software for this still exists somewhere? Any ideas what the 'middle' connector (with no cable attached) is for? ZIF-socketed card ("unknown_04.jpg" on the website): The ZIF socket is a 28-pin unit. I'd say it was a programmer, but wouldn't it need an external 24V (??) supply if that were true? The 40-pin chip is marked as "S6821P", whatever one of those is. The first 3 of the switches are labelled as '16', the next 3 as '32' and the last 4 (overlapping by 1 with the previous 3) as '64'. Card with 8 LEDs and 4 empty 16-pin DIL sockets ("unknown_02.jpg" on the website): Any ideas? Possibly a joystick controller or something and the joysticks plugged in via the DIL sockets? The two 40-pin chips are 6522's. There's a back of 8 DIP-switches on board, plus a switch in the top-right which just seems to enable or disable the LEDs as far as I can see. Card with remote pushbutton switch ("unknown_03.jpg" on the website): All TTL logic on board, ROM is a 2716 chip. Underside is labelled "Wild card". Anyone seen one of these or know what it is? cheers for any help or pointers on the above, Jules From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jun 5 07:12:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC3E@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Hello Jules, > ZIF-socketed card ("unknown_04.jpg" on the website): The ZIF socket > is a 28-pin unit. I'd say it was a programmer, but wouldn't it need > an external 24V (??) supply if that were true? Looks like the Vpp generator is on the far right below the multiturn pot. It will be something like TL497. > The 40-pin chip is marked as "S6821P", whatever one of those is. 68xx series paralell I/O chip. > The first 3 of the switches are labelled as '16', the next 3 > as '32' and the last 4 (overlapping by 1 with the previous 3) as '64'. First three on for 2716, next 3 on for 2732 and the last 4 on for 2764. > Card with 8 LEDs and 4 empty 16-pin DIL sockets ("unknown_02.jpg" on the > website): Any ideas? Looks like a digital I/O card. The 6522s are also paralell I/O chips. Leads to the outside world would plug into the DIL sockets. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jdickens at ameritech.net Thu Jun 5 07:28:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <20030605050944.37759.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030605050944.37759.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200306051858.58621.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Thursday 05 June 2003 12:09 am, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- jamesd wrote: > > it was 266 each way for me... i'm in milwaukee.... > > Was? I thought you hadn't gone yet. > > I was going to say... all this talk about old Sun hardware and I'm > minded to ask if you do go and you don't want to haul the 4/6xx, > if you'd pull the CPU board and ship it to me for a reasonable amount. > I still have this 3/60 case here... > > -ethan SUN STATUS.... i emailed the seller to get more info on the items, found out some interesting stuff the Sun has a CPU board and IPI Disk controller only... it worked a few years back, but when started it this time it wouldn't boot, he had no time to investigate. It weghts 500 lbs. the monitor is 19"-20" color hires color what i thought was a nice "LITTLE HP box" that i was going to turn into a scsi disk box, weights 750lbs. so i emailed him and told him i would not be picking up the auction, because there would be no way to move it from my ford explorer to my basement and the wear and tear of hailing "1200 lbs. was just too great." I offered to give people on this list the information about the machine and his where abouts so someone more local could contact him. I haven't heard back from him. He seems pretty cool, I have paid for the auction so I don't think i have to worry about ebay's non paying bidding rules. I really would of liked the monitor but a 500 mile road trip for a 20" monitor is not really worth it. James Dickens Milwaukee, Wisconsin From dholland at woh.rr.com Thu Jun 5 07:33:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs question.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Have you tried a different cable? > Sorta.. Tried a different clue, (The one that had (a little) common sense attached) and found the cable 1/2 plugged in. :-] David From jdickens at ameritech.net Thu Jun 5 07:35:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <20030605113933.91238.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030605113933.91238.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200306051905.47872.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Thursday 05 June 2003 06:39 am, Jules Richardson wrote: > Hi, > > I came across a whole boxful of Apple II cards at the weekend that I'd > forgotten I actually owned. Unfortunately nearly all of my Apple hardware > is too far buried to really dig out at the moment and play around with any > of this stuff, but there's still a few cards that I'd be interested in > finding more about if possible and getting necessary software for. > > Card images [640x480 resolution and around 60KB or thereabouts] are at: > > http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/apple2 > > > PAL Colour Card: No idea as to manufacturer; mainly analogue circuitry on > board plus the modulator and a bit of TTL. Am I likely to need software for > this to work with a UK TV? > > IC Test Card: Made by a Japanese company called Fairy, given the 20-pin > ZIF socket that (I assume) goes with this, I imagine it's a tester for TTL > logic chips. Most of the card's logic is buried beneath black gloop with > black cardboard over the top, so who knows what's under there - the 40-pin > chip with the 'test OK' sticker on it has had the markings ground off too. > Anyone heard of one of these or have software for one? > > Vitalograph card: I gather Vitalograph these days make medical equipment. > Whether this card is from the same company or not I don't know - and ideas > what the 3-pin (XLR?) connector would have hooked up to? Some TTL on board, > some OP-amp chips. 40-pin chip is a 6522. All chips are date-coded 1980 or > 1981. > > Z80 Card: Actually a "Z80 Card II" made by Creative. Presumably software > exists for one of these somewhere still. No on-board memory, and 4 unknown > DIP-switches in the lower-right corner. CPU is Z80-A, card seems to have > been made in late 1982. > > ROM Card: No idea what this is; presumably the 6 ROMs (2716 chips) contain > utilities that could have been accessed under software control? No idea > what the switch at the rear edge of the card does either. > > 80-column card: Marked as 'Chinex' and made by Creative, presumably > necessary software for this still exists somewhere? Any ideas what the > 'middle' connector (with no cable attached) is for? > > ZIF-socketed card ("unknown_04.jpg" on the website): The ZIF socket is a > 28-pin unit. I'd say it was a programmer, but wouldn't it need an external > 24V (??) supply if that were true? The 40-pin chip is marked as "S6821P", > whatever one of those is. The first 3 of the switches are labelled as '16', > the next 3 as '32' and the last 4 (overlapping by 1 with the previous 3) as > '64'. > > Card with 8 LEDs and 4 empty 16-pin DIL sockets ("unknown_02.jpg" on the > website): Any ideas? Possibly a joystick controller or something and the > joysticks plugged in via the DIL sockets? The two 40-pin chips are 6522's. > There's a back of 8 DIP-switches on board, plus a switch in the top-right > which just seems to enable or disable the LEDs as far as I can see. > > Card with remote pushbutton switch ("unknown_03.jpg" on the website): All > TTL logic on board, ROM is a 2716 chip. Underside is labelled "Wild card". > Anyone seen one of these or know what it is? okay i don't remember the exact name of it the card with the button, but it was used as a hacking card, the button when pressed issued a NMI, so and goes into a program on the ROM, and allows you to debug any program running at the time, and can also save memory contents, it was used for hacking games and removing copy protection from programs. > > cheers for any help or pointers on the above, > > Jules From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jun 5 08:13:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306040303.h5433S74004214@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > What can I say, big Unix boxes for hobbyist use scare me, I'd much > rather have a nice small modernish 2-4 processor Unix workstation. Not really the big UNIX boxes that scare me. It's more the pre-1960 giant mainframes that scare me. Peace... Sridhar From rjkulman at optonline.net Thu Jun 5 08:13:13 2003 From: rjkulman at optonline.net (rjk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Optimem 600 worm drives Message-ID: <3EDD979F.9A987198@optonline.net> the information and details provided by richard erlacher are completely false and unfounded, this person has never made a purchase from me, nor do I know of any dealings with him. His objective in writing this about his dealing with me is obviously to just tarnish my reputation for some unknown reason surely a dealer of making a living selling computer items would provide details of what they are selling, pricing is always an issue with any sale, there's always someone somewhere selling it cheaper, so so they think. don't beleive everything you read, especially from richard erlacher there are at least 2 sides to very subjective commentary rj -- rj kulman rjk consulting llc 718 968 9167 voice 1810/Fax Reply To: rjkulman@optonline.com new / used computer stuff - credit cards accepted: discover-mastercard-visa-amer-exp Verified Paypal Acct / paypal- sign up and get $5.00 for each of us: https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=rjkulman%40optonline.net Nothing But Net Keep Your Options, Opinions and Software OPEN - current ebay auctions: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=rjkulman@optonline.net&sort=3&page=1&rows=25&since=-1 From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jun 5 08:13:17 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: The Univac III (in trailer) is back In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030604080555.03c2ac78@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > As for the Univac .. he says "stored on a 40' Semi-Trailer (clean & > Dry)" Looking a the pictures, they don't look like they've been very > dry. Fronts of the cabinets all discoloured, and the cardboard boxes > are stained. I presume that even a bit of moisture would wreck anything > this old? There's quite a bit of stuff that would get wrecked, but if you have the time and energy, most, if not all, of it can be fixed. Peace... Sridhar From mwadha at po-box.mcgill.ca Thu Jun 5 08:13:21 2003 From: mwadha at po-box.mcgill.ca (Matthew Wadham-Gagnon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: GP-10 Message-ID: <3F4E9E3B@webmail.mcgill.ca> Hi Dwight, I've been looking for examples/labs that would take me through the correct procedure to setup/operate a GP-10 analog computer. I found your email in a discussion about the GP-6 along with links to two labs on how to use it. They seem pretty good except for a few details that probably apply specifically to the GP-6. Thanks, Matt Matthew Wadham-Gagnon McGill University, Montreal Mechanical Engineering, Honours From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jun 5 08:13:26 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes Message-ID: Hello people. Is there any way to tell if a backplane is QQQQ or QQCD by looking at it, and without having to pull the backplane out of the chassis? What if I can find the model number of the chassis? Peace... Sridhar From gareth.knight at ahds.ac.uk Thu Jun 5 08:13:30 2003 From: gareth.knight at ahds.ac.uk (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Sig-Net disk reading Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm having trouble converting some Sig-Net (http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=810) SD/DS 5.25 disks to a DOS format. I've tested some of the instructions on http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/Cpm/oldflop.html (22Disk, PCW Explorer, etc.) with little success. Can anyone provide other suggestions for likely DOS apps to try? Cheers, Gareth Amiga History Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com From wjmwjm at mail.asisna.com Thu Jun 5 08:13:34 2003 From: wjmwjm at mail.asisna.com (Bill Morton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Xerox 630 System Disks Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030604092130.00ae7898@mail.asisna.com> I saw that in December of 2002 you had all four Xerox System Disks for the 630 Memorywriter. Do you still have same? How much? Bill Morton 5412 South Glendora Spokane, WA 99223 From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jun 5 08:13:39 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <200306041650.JAA18696@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: I don't think any of those bidders actually intend on paying. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I couldn't help but pass this on: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611062497&category=40129 > > later > Dwight From mwadha at po-box.mcgill.ca Thu Jun 5 08:13:44 2003 From: mwadha at po-box.mcgill.ca (Matthew Wadham-Gagnon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: GP-10 Message-ID: <3F4EA7BC@webmail.mcgill.ca> Hi Dwight, I've been looking for examples/labs that would take me through the correct procedure to setup/operate a GP-10 analog computer. I found your email in a discussion about the GP-6 along with links to two labs on how to use it. They seem pretty good except for a few details that probably apply specifically to the GP-6. Thanks, Matt Matthew Wadham-Gagnon McGill University, Montreal Mechanical Engineering, Honours From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jun 5 08:24:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 Message-ID: It might be that the DE-9's don't have a standard PC serial pinout. At work, we have a UPS that uses a DE-9 for programming, but the pinout on the cable (a 940-0024C; Googling produces a number of hits) is Female Male 1-4 2------------2 3------------1 5------------6 6 NC 7-8 9 NC -----Original Message----- From: Dave Brown [mailto:tractorb@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 1:15 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 Maybe you drive it over the Ethernet port- I saw one of those devices a couple of days back that had 8 or 10 power outlets, the DIP switch and a single Ethernet port. Nothing else. Going to try and score it too, but 'he-who-has-it' is still considering if he really wants it! DaveB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:38 AM Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 > I have come across what seems to be a remote outlet/power sequencer device > from the Systems Enhancement Corporation called the Power Administrator 800. > On the rear it has two DB-9 male ports, which I assume can be used to program > this device. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jun 5 08:40:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Optimem 600 worm drives References: <3EDD979F.9A987198@optonline.net> Message-ID: <3EDF46BB.53AB6F20@comcast.net> Okay, I know I shouldn't acknowledge this post, but I'm just too curious about it... What the heck is this all about, and where did it come from? DId rjk send this to the wrong list maybe? rjk wrote: > > the information and details provided by richard erlacher are completely false and > unfounded, this person has never made a purchase from me, nor do I know of > any dealings with him. His objective in writing this about his dealing with me > is > obviously to just tarnish my reputation for some unknown reason > > surely a dealer of making a living selling computer items would provide details of > what > they are selling, pricing is always an issue with any sale, there's always someone > somewhere selling it cheaper, so so they think. > > don't beleive everything you read, especially from richard erlacher > > there are at least 2 sides to very subjective commentary > > rj > > -- -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Thu Jun 5 08:48:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards References: <20030605113933.91238.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <062801c32b68$5b0ede00$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jules Richardson > I came across a whole boxful of Apple II cards at the weekend that I'd > forgotten I actually owned. Things get buried way to easily in this "Hobby", That Reminds me I might pull my Apple IIs out of storage and have a play..... I was never really much of an apple user, came by my collection by fluike and just kept adding to it. I have had lots of fun playing with them though. I'll try and give what info I can, comparing the cards to whats in my collection...... > IC Test Card: Made by a Japanese company called Fairy, given the 20-pin ZIF > socket that (I assume) goes with this, I imagine it's a tester for TTL logic > chips. Most of the card's logic is buried beneath black gloop with black > cardboard over the top, so who knows what's under there - the 40-pin chip with > the 'test OK' sticker on it has had the markings ground off too. Anyone heard > of one of these or have software for one? I have heard of these, there is a curcuit in the form of a electronics project floating around some where for either this card or something simillar. I'm sure the artical had a listing of the software. I would try and find an archive of electronics magazines from the mid eighties..... > Z80 Card: Actually a "Z80 Card II" made by Creative. Presumably software > exists for one of these somewhere still. No on-board memory, and 4 unknown > DIP-switches in the lower-right corner. CPU is Z80-A, card seems to have been > made in late 1982. I might be wrong but I have a feeling if your talking Z80 in the apple you looking at a CPM adaptor. Next generation apples have the Z80 built in as a co-processor.... That if I remember correctly..... I have several mother boards, some with the Z80 and others without. The first time I saw something like this it was inside a machine without the Z80 mounted on the mother board..... > > ROM Card: No idea what this is; presumably the 6 ROMs (2716 chips) contain > utilities that could have been accessed under software control? No idea what > the switch at the rear edge of the card does either. I have a simillar card, once again it's to do with CPM. At least mine is, yours might be loaded with something diferant, I can't remember if it was "generic" storage, or purpous built for the above CPM card...... > ZIF-socketed card ("unknown_04.jpg" on the website): The ZIF socket is a > 28-pin unit. I'd say it was a programmer, but wouldn't it need an external 24V > (??) supply if that were true? The 40-pin chip is marked as "S6821P", whatever > one of those is. The first 3 of the switches are labelled as '16', the next 3 > as '32' and the last 4 (overlapping by 1 with the previous 3) as '64'. Definatly correct here, this is an Eprom programmer. Once again i'm sure this was something that I hacve seen inside an electronics mag as a project.... I'd do a little bit of research at the local library..... > Card with remote pushbutton switch ("unknown_03.jpg" on the website): All TTL > logic on board, ROM is a 2716 chip. Underside is labelled "Wild card". Anyone > seen one of these or know what it is? I have never seen anything like this one before, but if it is as sugested by another member a "Hacking card" then I'd also love to hear from anyone else who may have further info. This sort of "Unusual" plug in would be an interesting addition to my collection. I'll keep my eyes out for more info, might even do a bit of research at the local TAFE myself....... Hope this has been useful, Keep us updated with any info you get, I know I'd love to see more info on these bits, just so I know wether or not it's worth looking out for them to add to my collection..... The Sinister Dragon...... From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jun 5 08:56:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator Message-ID: >>Its an RGB -> NTSC modulator for the Apple IIc. It also came with a >>game/TV switch box, but I don't know if that was originally part of the >>package, or just a seperate item that was included in the auction. > > >COOL >I don't know anythng about them, but have been curious for some time. >Please report all you know, post picts, play with it, etc. > >OTOH maybe I am thinking about the thing for the IIc+ Sellam indicated that he thinks the modulator came with all IIc's, but I have to question... Why? The IIc already has a composite video out, so why also ship with the modulator. For that matter... why make the modulator at all?!? If the IIc has composite video, why bother with an RGB to composite? Does the IIc+ not have the composite? I would not be surprised if the Computer/TV slide switch shipped with all IIc's, much like they shipped with all Atari 2600's. Just a cheap item to toss in so people can connect it to their TV set. But including an apparently redundant function modulator, that just seems silly. -chris From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 5 09:09:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator References: Message-ID: <00f501c32b6b$3a945300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > For that matter... why make the modulator at all?!? If the IIc > has composite video, why bother with an RGB to composite? Sounds like a build-your-own macTV for people who want to use their own TV/monitor for the computer. I have one of these boxes for VGA->NTSC... they're inexpensive now. An RGB to NTSC converter may more properly be called a "scan converter", "modulator" is typically the name given to NTSC -> RF over coax. You can use a scan converter And a modulator together ComputerRGB -(scan converter)-> NTSC -(modulator)-> TV. John A. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Jun 5 09:12:01 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: The motor is 50Hz. Yes, you'd think the motor would be 235v, but it seems not. The 235-115v converter makes the stand go "DONG" when you plug it in and makes a loud 50Hz hum. Who needs a beatbox? Plug the TTY in, put scotch tape on the BREAK key and you have a 600 BPM drummer ;) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 09:24:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <200306051858.58621.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20030605141847.25333.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- jamesd wrote: > SUN STATUS.... > > i emailed the seller to get more info on the items, found out some > interesting stuff > > the Sun has a CPU board and IPI Disk controller only... That's typical of later VME Sun cages. There's so much you can load onto the CPU board that unless you have wierd comms needs, there's not much call for VME peripherals. > it worked a few years back, but when started it this time it wouldn't > boot, he had no time to investigate. Bet it's the NVRAM battery. > It weghts 500 lbs. Yes. > the monitor is 19"-20" color hires color Typical of a Sun box. > what i thought was a nice "LITTLE HP box" that i was going to turn into a > scsi disk box, weights 750lbs. That seemed clear from the pictures on the auction... an *empty* 6' rack is between 75 and 125lbs, depending on skins, doors, etc. > so i emailed him and told him i would not be picking up the auction, > because there would be no way to move it from my ford explorer to my > basement and the wear and tear of hailing "1200 lbs. was just too great." The seller should have been kind to bidders and mentioned the physical scope of it (for the unwary), but many of us on the list have made road-trips just as you describe: hundreds of miles for hundreds of lbs of gear. > I have paid for the auction so I don't think i have to > worry about ebay's non paying bidding rules. Probably not. I've won an auction or two that I offered to pay the bid price and not the shipping and let the seller keep the item and re-list it. Make most sense when the shipping is several times the cost of the item (and I've found it locally before the auction closed for less than the advertised S&H). > I really would of liked the monitor but a 500 mile road trip for a 20" > monitor is not really worth it. It's likely to be a fixed-scan monitor, so if you were planning on using it for your PC, it's a bad match. I happen to have a Sun 20E20 which _does_ sync up to ordinary machines, but it has a 13W3 connector (I was able to scrounge the requisite adapter locally) meaning that unadapted, it won't physically fit on consumer-grade hardware (and some newer Sun hardware). I was happy to find that 20E20 at the local Uni surplus depot for $20. Its 17" little-brother ($15) is on my SPARC5. The optical-drive SCSI cabinet looked like it would be fun to play with. We installed one like that at Lucent about 5 years ago. Very expensive. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 09:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030605142851.27067.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > Hello people. Is there any way to tell if a backplane is QQQQ or QQCD by > looking at it, and without having to pull the backplane out of the > chassis? Not from the slot-side... all the connectors look exactly the same. Well... not _visually_ You could sit down with a VOM or a continuity tester and probe a couple of selected pins to determine the wiring scheme. In practice, though, it's ordinarily done by other means. In some older chassis, you can see the backplane wiring, but not on boxes like the BA23 or BA123. > What if I can find the model number of the chassis? That's useful... The model numbers that look like BA-23, BA-11N, BA-11M, etc., are the ones you want. Also, remember in newer boxes, it's three slots of Q22-CD, with the rest Q22-Q22. Older boxes can be wired for either 18-bit or 22-bit addressing, which may or may not involve Q-CD slots. I _think_ the BA-11N is a 18-bit Q-CD box... that's what I remember my 11/23 is in (but I added the extra wires some time ago to make it Q22). -ethan From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Jun 5 09:34:00 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: PDP-7 - Problems Message-ID: Hey! We have two main problems: 1) The RUN button The RUN button crashes the CPU. So does a RUN invoked by the end of Paper-Tape End-Of-Tape. When I stop the CP and CONTINUE, the processor just goes between FETCH and EXECUTE states on one single instruction. I made a 9-step JMP program, which I toggled in. I EXAMINEd 0 and CONTINUEd from 1 which contained a JMP to 0 which jumped to 7, and from there it went to 70, 700, 707, 770, 777, to 0. By holding the CONTINUE button, it ran at least 1000 cycles at max speed. 2) IOT Instructions (Input-Output Transfer) Just plain don't work. When I READ-IN a Paper-Tape, The Memory Address increments, starting when the data does. During this process, Memory Buffer = MA. When the EOT is reached on the Paper-Tape Reader, RUN is invoked (Which crashes the CP, see section 1) These are sure signs of communication going on between the CP and the PTR. Unless, the EOT has some sort of more direct connection. Not even the Status lights illuminate. They seem to be wired into the IO rack (which makes sense as most of what it monitors is I/O equipment.. TTY, PTR, PT-Punch etc. Any help from any DECies greatly appreciated! I have many spares, and if I don't have the spare in question, I know many who do. Regards Tore S Bekkedal toresbe@ifi.uio.no +47 91 85 95 08 Message-ID: <06ab01c32b70$e619fc20$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Just found this very interesting site.... http://www.apple2.org/ It has photos of lots of differant types of Apple cards.... Treasure trove of information.... Have a good look around and see if you can I.D. The cards you have..... The Sinister Dragon.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jules Richardson > Hi, > > I came across a whole boxful of Apple II cards at the weekend that I'd > forgotten I actually owned. Unfortunately nearly all of my Apple hardware is From ernestls at attbi.com Thu Jun 5 09:57:01 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <20030605113933.91238.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Is that Mitac computer an Apple II clone? From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 5 10:27:01 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: HP R332 Touch screen Message-ID: >Hi Peter, Hi Joe, {sorry if this is a little muddled - I just got off a 10 hour flight...} > I picked up a pile (8 of them IIRC) of these things recently. I've acquired two of them too. One without keyboard or any other accessories, the other with keybaord and three rather inportant cables... The first cable is phono to phono, about 6 inches long and connects the rear panel HP 9000 audio connector to the audio input on the HP 332 chassis. The second is a 6 inch HPIL to HPIL connector that jumpers the HP 9000 card keybaord input to an HPIL socket in the rear panel that just connects through to a front panel HPIL for the front panel hinged keybaord. The third cable connects the phono video out from the HP 9000 card to the 'VGA' connector on the rear panel (3 row connector 15 pins). Only four of the pins in the 'VGA' connector are used. I haven't buzzed it through but the pins used are 1, 5, 11 and 15 only. HP part number is A1300-60036 Without the video jumper cable in place then the display will only show retrace lines when the brightness is turned right up - so it can be mistaken for not working. >They had >been surplused by a large company and the integrated keyboards were >missing. So the surplus company that got them threw them out. BUT the KB >cable runs through the machine then out the back and then plugs back into a >standard HP-HIL keyboard port. So I'm thinking that I can use a standard >HP-HIL keyboard. Absolutely - I have done htis and it works fine. With the correct cable you can also drive the monochrome display from another computer system >I've tried one of the machines and I can't get a display >on it. I haven't had time to check further and I haven't checke dhte >others. See my comments above - if you see retrace lines whenq the brightmess is turned up then it is probably working OK. >I'm pretty certain that these have an internal hard drive. sorry no >advice on how to use the touch screen. If you had a spare hard drive thenI'd be interested. I'm currently booting my systems off an external harddrive. >Do you know if an external display can be connected to these? This one >appears to be running but nothing is displayed on the screen. I think it >may have a bad screen. See my previous comments I'll have a play with the touch screenand see if I can come up with something. Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From ernestls at attbi.com Thu Jun 5 10:29:01 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <062801c32b68$5b0ede00$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of peter tremewen > > I might be wrong but I have a feeling if your talking Z80 in the > apple you looking at a CPM adaptor. Next generation apples have the Z80 > built in as a co-processor.... That if I remember correctly..... I have > several mother boards, some with the Z80 and others without. The > first time I saw something like this it was inside a machine without the Z80 > mounted on the mother board..... It's a Z80 add on. The Apple II's used the 6502 but these Z80 cards could be added to allow the use of CP/M. There were a few Apple II clones that had the Z80 built-in (both the Z80 and 6502 on the motherboard,) and even some that had the Z80 as the main processor on the MB, with an add-on 6502 w/ROMs card that would allow the system to function as a regular Apple II system. There was even at least one clone that had the 6502 and Z80 on the MB but the ROMS were on a separate card. I assume that they were built that way so that they could pass through customs easier. > > ROM Card: No idea what this is; presumably the 6 ROMs (2716 chips) > > contain utilities that could have been accessed under software control? > > No idea what the switch at the rear edge of the card does either. It's a simple ROM card. These were built during the transition from Integer Basic to Applesoft Basic. The card would have Applesoft and sometimes additional ROMS like the Programmers Aid ROM, etc. These cards were usually used on earlier Apple II systems, since later models had Applesoft built in. Also, these ROM cards could be used in clones for the same reason, and having the ROMs on a separate card would again make moving the clones through customs easier. The switch was to allow you to select the different ROMS. > > Card with remote pushbutton switch ("unknown_03.jpg" on the > > website): All TTL logic on board, ROM is a 2716 chip. Underside > > is labelled "Wild card". Anyone seen one of these or know what it is? > I have never seen anything like this one before, but if it is as > sugested by another member a "Hacking card" then I'd also love to > hear from anyone else who may have further info. This sort of "Unusual" > plug in would be an interesting addition to my collection. I'll keep my > eyes out for more info, might even do a bit of research at the local TAFE > myself....... Yeah. It's a WildCard. I have a boxed WildCard II but I've never used it. These cards were often used in conjunction with a 128k RAM add-on card. If I remember correctly, the card allows you to capture the contents of your RAM and view it, or save it to disk, etc. I think that the main purpose was to be able to edit/save whatever program is loaded in memory, whether it's copy protected or not. You could edit out the copy protection part, and then save the edited program to disk. E. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 5 10:51:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: someone should rescue these Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030605104234.03c58ec0@mail.ubanproductions.com> There is a nice set of H960 racks up on eBay, about to close in the next hour or so: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3417760448&category=11831 No, I don't have anything to do with this except that I hate to think what will happen to them if no one picks them up. I would love to have them, but NJ isn't in my neck of the woods. If someone was willing to pick them up for me and store them until I could drive out, that would be great! These cabinets don't become available very often and this set appears to have the side panels, which can be hard to find all by themselves. --tom From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 5 10:55:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: OT: FW: THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030605095615.0f1ff1e6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This is OT but it's too good not to pass on. I'm sure that everyone on the list can appreciate it. Joe > >Subject: THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > >Let's see if I understand how the world works lately... > If a man cuts his finger off while slicing salami at work, > he blames the restaurant. > If you smoke three packs a day for 40 years and die of > lung cancer, your family blames the tobacco company. > > If your neighbor crashes into a tree while driving home > drunk, he blames the bartender. > > If your grandchildren are brats without manners, > > you blame television. > > > If your friend is shot by a deranged madman, you blame > the gun manufacturer. > > > > And if a crazed person breaks into the cockpit and tries > to kill the pilot at 35,000 feet, and the passengers > kill him instead, the mother of the deceased > blames the airline. > I must have lived too long to understand the world as it >is anymore. So, if I die while my old, wrinkled butt is >parked in front of this computer, I want you to blame >Bill Gates...okay? > > > > > > > >Bye! >Have a Great Day! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________ > IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FWTHISIS.htm" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS1.gif" >Content-ID: <710815C8-121F-4139-94FE-6336349A8D6F> >Content-Description: FwTHISIS1.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS1.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISIS.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS2.gif" >Content-ID: >Content-Description: FwTHISIS2.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS2.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI1.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS3.gif" >Content-ID: >Content-Description: FwTHISIS3.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS3.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI2.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS4.gif" >Content-ID: <8E209AD2-FCAA-44FF-8769-46BE8AAD29B2> >Content-Description: FwTHISIS4.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS4.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI3.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS5.gif" >Content-ID: <87ED2775-2554-4B7D-8C29-191C2D02F7C2> >Content-Description: FwTHISIS5.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS5.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI4.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS6.gif" >Content-ID: <0589F5D4-900C-4878-AF7F-9B3BE3BA6D2B> >Content-Description: FwTHISIS6.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS6.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI5.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS7.gif" >Content-ID: <0D1B9DEF-5218-452D-9D13-B9B0881FB148> >Content-Description: FwTHISIS7.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS7.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI6.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS8.gif" >Content-ID: <8C1048EF-1066-4862-B1ED-3F5618D8F126> >Content-Description: FwTHISIS8.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS8.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI7.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS9.gif" >Content-ID: <52DD19BB-8145-415C-B368-5609A0381025> >Content-Description: FwTHISIS9.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS9.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI8.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="FwTHISIS10.gif" >Content-ID: >Content-Description: FwTHISIS10.gif >Content-Location: FwTHISIS10.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\FwTHISI9.gif" >Content-Type: image/gif; > name="IMSTP.gif" >Content-ID: >Content-Description: IMSTP.gif >Content-Location: IMSTP.gif > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\IMSTP.gif" From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 5 10:58:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:08 2005 Subject: Texas Instruments TI-99/4A in box available Message-ID: Marlene MacCorkle has a TI-99/4a in the box that she'd like to sell. She's not asking much. Send your offer to her directly. Reply-to: Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jun 5 10:59:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes References: Message-ID: <3EDF67B7.9030108@Vishay.com> Hello Sridhar, yes, if you can see the traces, you can tell from the shape: CD interconnect consists of point-to-point leads from one slot's A side to the next one's B side, which should look quite different from Qbus, which (except for few grant or other daisy-chained signals) consists of bused connections between "same" pins (A side of one slot to A side of next slot). If you cannot inspect visually, your continuity checker is your friend. Layout of Q vs. CD slots may be different between DEC and third-party backplanes even if both are, say, 4*9 shape, beware... Andreas vance@neurotica.com wrote: > Hello people. Is there any way to tell if a backplane is QQQQ or QQCD by > looking at it, and without having to pull the backplane out of the > chassis? What if I can find the model number of the chassis? > > Peace... Sridhar -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 5 11:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: id this 88100/88200 CPU card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030605121607.3cdfbd14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up a pile of cards yesterday at a scrap place. One of them has a Motorola XC81100RC25G and four XC88200RC25E ICs on it. I know the 88100 is a 32 bit RISC CPU and the others are 16k Cache/MMUs. The only other IC on the board appears to be a 24 pin PAL but it has a label on it so I can't read the part number. The baord itself has three high density connectors on the bottom and is marked "Motorola Inc (c) 1989" and measures ~4 1/2" x 8 1/2" and has 6 mounting holes around three sides. Anybody know what it might be for? Joe From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jun 5 11:39:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: someone should rescue these Message-ID: >No, I don't have anything to do with this except that I hate to think what >will happen to them if no one picks them up. I would love to have them, but >NJ isn't in my neck of the woods. If someone was willing to pick them up >for me and store them until I could drive out, that would be great! These are actually just about next door to me. However, I don't have much in the way of storage space left. When would you be looking at picking them up? I'm also curious if I know the seller. I have a friend who's company (in Mahwah) just merged with another and has been unloading a ton of PC equipment (mostly free). Of course, that doesn't mean much, as Mahwah where these are, is home to a number of large industrial campuses and they could be from any one of them. -chris From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 5 12:00:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: someone should rescue these In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030605115214.03bddf28@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 12:34 PM 6/5/2003 -0400, chris wrote: > >No, I don't have anything to do with this except that I hate to think what > >will happen to them if no one picks them up. I would love to have them, but > >NJ isn't in my neck of the woods. If someone was willing to pick them up > >for me and store them until I could drive out, that would be great! > >These are actually just about next door to me. However, I don't have much >in the way of storage space left. When would you be looking at picking >them up? > >I'm also curious if I know the seller. I have a friend who's company (in >Mahwah) just merged with another and has been unloading a ton of PC >equipment (mostly free). Of course, that doesn't mean much, as Mahwah >where these are, is home to a number of large industrial campuses and >they could be from any one of them. > >-chris > Thanks Chris. Actually I was hoping that someone on the list would pick these up. I don't really have room for them either. --tom From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jun 5 12:00:35 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 books, IPC Peripherals CD changer.... Message-ID: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> Just grabbed these out of a trash pile here in the hallways of the Yale School of Med... - User's Guide, Functions and Macros Guide, Quick Reference, and Getting Started books for Lotus 1-2-3 for DOS ver 2.4. - IPC Peripherals MCD-1040 4X 7 disc CD changer library. I grabbed the books, figuring someone here would want them. As for the CD changer, does anyone know/have about special drivers for the beastie, or should work as a standard SCSI CD drive? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jun 5 12:04:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: someone should rescue these References: Message-ID: <009501c32b83$cf200c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'd love to have those racks!! But alas... I'm too busy right now trying to pick up stuff I already own :> Jay West From grg2 at attbi.com Thu Jun 5 12:18:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (grg2@attbi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: PDP-7 - Problems (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Message-ID: <200306051717.h55HHBZ19753@huey.classiccmp.org> If nobody's mentioned these: #1: Check the power supply voltages. Filter capacitors tend to dry out and voltage regulator transistors tend to fail. If the voltages are more than 5% off I'd do some serious power supply investigation. If the output voltages are low, don't try boosting them up by turning up the adjustment knob! There's probably something more seriously wrong. Turning up the knob is going to just pass thru more ripple or unregulated voltage. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 12:27:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: someone should rescue these In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030605104234.03c58ec0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20030605172215.19086.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Uban wrote: > There is a nice set of H960 racks up on eBay, about to close in the next > hour or so: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3417760448&category=11831 Sweet. > ...NJ isn't in my neck of the woods. Mine, either. I did that run last year to NJ with Dan Cohoe, but I had a head-start - I was in Western PA already. > These cabinets don't become available very often and this set appears to > have the side panels, which can be hard to find all by themselves. I can attest to that. I have plenty more H960 cabinets than side panels. If someone is looking to get into/spruce up DEC hardware, this is a sweet deal. They aren't too hard to handle when empty, and lay down just fine. As I've mentioned before, you can get two in the back of a VW Microbus (but my Microbus engine is in the basement, so the bus don't go so fast right now ;-) -ethan From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 5 13:04:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: someone should rescue these In-Reply-To: <20030605172215.19086.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030605104234.03c58ec0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030605125943.03c05560@mail.ubanproductions.com> Excellent, there is a bid on the racks! I can rest more easily that they won't end up in a dump or scrapped. --tom At 10:22 AM 6/5/2003 -0700, you wrote: >--- Tom Uban wrote: > > There is a nice set of H960 racks up on eBay, about to close in the next > > hour or so: > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3417760448&category=11831 > >Sweet. > > > ...NJ isn't in my neck of the woods. > >Mine, either. I did that run last year to NJ with Dan Cohoe, but I >had a head-start - I was in Western PA already. > > > These cabinets don't become available very often and this set appears to > > have the side panels, which can be hard to find all by themselves. > >I can attest to that. I have plenty more H960 cabinets than side panels. > >If someone is looking to get into/spruce up DEC hardware, this is a >sweet deal. They aren't too hard to handle when empty, and lay down >just fine. As I've mentioned before, you can get two in the back of >a VW Microbus (but my Microbus engine is in the basement, so the bus >don't go so fast right now ;-) > >-ethan From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 5 13:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <200306051905.47872.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > > Card with remote pushbutton switch ("unknown_03.jpg" on the website): All > > TTL logic on board, ROM is a 2716 chip. Underside is labelled "Wild card". > > Anyone seen one of these or know what it is? > > okay i don't remember the exact name of it the card with the button, but it > was used as a hacking card, the button when pressed issued a NMI, so and goes > into a program on the ROM, and allows you to debug any program running at the > time, and can also save memory contents, it was used for hacking games and > removing copy protection from programs. It is called, in fact, "The WildCard". It's the only card of the bunch besides the ROM programmer (which I also have) that I recognize. This is truly one cool lot of Apple cards. I'd really like to know what the IC Tester does (though I think it's pretty obvious ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jun 5 13:15:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: <20030605142851.27067.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c32b8d$cad49b60$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Also, remember in newer boxes, it's three slots of Q22-CD, > with the rest Q22-Q22. Older boxes can be wired for either IIRC that's true of the BA23 but the larger BA123 is four slots of Q-CD and then serpentine Q-Q. The even newer BA200 series (BA213/BA214) and probably everything after that (which is mostly just the BA400 stuff) is AFAIK all Q-CD. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 5 13:23:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Optimem 600 worm drives In-Reply-To: <3EDF46BB.53AB6F20@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Okay, I know I shouldn't acknowledge this post, but I'm just too > curious about it... > What the heck is this all about, and where did it come from? DId rjk > send this to the wrong list maybe? Seems to me to be a response from an older message in the archives where the date of the posting was not noticed. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 5 13:30:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, chris wrote: > Sellam indicated that he thinks the modulator came with all IIc's, but I > have to question... Why? The IIc already has a composite video out, so > why also ship with the modulator. To make it easier to hook into a television. Trust me on this one. > I would not be surprised if the Computer/TV slide switch shipped with > all IIc's, much like they shipped with all Atari 2600's. Just a cheap > item to toss in so people can connect it to their TV set. But including > an apparently redundant function modulator, that just seems silly. Don't make me pull out an original Apple //c Packing List ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 5 13:32:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was In-Reply-To: <20030605022016.12617.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 4, 3 07:20:16 pm Message-ID: > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > If you are going to do that, why not use a DEC CPU? > > > > I thought about suggesting that, but the hardware hacker in me wants to > > keep it as simple as possible :-) > > I understand. I'm both a software and a hardware hacker, so I don't mind > moving the set-point over a bit for a combination solution. Me too, actually, mut more on the hardware side. > > Anyway, I'm more of a Unibus person... > > Fair enough. I do both (plus VAXBI) since I used to make all of that Well, my 'main' PDP11 has both Unibus and Qbus (!). It's an 11/45 with a DW11-B. On the Unibus side I have memory, RX11-C, RX611, DR11-Bs, paper tape, etc. On the Q-bus side I have an RLV11, MINC modules, IBV11, etc... Quite an unconventional system... For hardware hacking, I find the Unibus to be simpler. I also have more 'exotic' controllers for that bus.. > > It's a pity that computers with lots of parallel I/O lines are so > > uncommon, and the user ports are out of fashion now... > > No doubt. I did a lot of stuff with the User Port on the PET and C-64 I try to fit at least one 16 line user port on everything I own... I suspect I'm the only person to have written microcode to bit-bang the I2C protocol over a few of the lines on the PERQlink interface, for example ;-) > > One thing I would _love_ to find is a portable-ish machine which can > > write a disk that's readable on a PC, and which has at least 32 parallel > > I/O lines, totally user controllable. > > Hmm... you'll laugh... my SBC-6120 w/IOB-6120 fits the bill... the :-)... That;s the sort of machine that would probably do the job... Pity it's not available commercially... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 5 13:32:06 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <20030605113933.91238.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 5, 3 12:39:33 pm Message-ID: > PAL Colour Card: No idea as to manufacturer; mainly analogue circuitry on > board plus the modulator and a bit of TTL. Am I likely to need software for > this to work with a UK TV? I don't think it'll need special software. It goes in slot 7 (only -- it needs some clock signals that are only on that slot), and may also connect to one of the aux video connectors on the mainboard. You also have to do the Eurapple modification (as in the TechRef -- cut and jumper the pads and change the crystal) unless you have a Europlus. > > IC Test Card: Made by a Japanese company called Fairy, given the 20-pin ZIF > socket that (I assume) goes with this, I imagine it's a tester for TTL logic > chips. Most of the card's logic is buried beneath black gloop with black > cardboard over the top, so who knows what's under there - the 40-pin chip with > the 'test OK' sticker on it has had the markings ground off too. Anyone heard > of one of these or have software for one? Argh!!! > > Vitalograph card: I gather Vitalograph these days make medical equipment. > Whether this card is from the same company or not I don't know - and ideas what > the 3-pin (XLR?) connector would have hooked up to? Some TTL on board, some > OP-amp chips. 40-pin chip is a 6522. All chips are date-coded 1980 or 1981. > The 6522 is a 16 bit parallel chip with all sorts of features (counter/timer, etc). No idea what this card does -- could it be an interface for some medical instrument? > Z80 Card: Actually a "Z80 Card II" made by Creative. Presumably software > exists for one of these somewhere still. No on-board memory, and 4 unknown > DIP-switches in the lower-right corner. CPU is Z80-A, card seems to have been > made in late 1982. Probably a CP/M add-on card. It uses the main Apple memory, of course. You need to find the CP/M boot disks for it. > > ROM Card: No idea what this is; presumably the 6 ROMs (2716 chips) contain > utilities that could have been accessed under software control? No idea what > the switch at the rear edge of the card does either. Maybe a firmware Applesoft card. This would contain floating point (Applesoft) BASIC, to be inserted into slot 0 of a machine with Integer BASIC on the mainboard. The switch selects which BASIC is active after reset. Personnally, I perfer a 'language card' (RAM) in slot 0, since I can load BASIC, Pascal, etc from disk. > > 80-column card: Marked as 'Chinex' and made by Creative, presumably necessary > software for this still exists somewhere? Any ideas what the 'middle' connector > (with no cable attached) is for? Some 80 colum cards had an extra little PCB that fitted under one of the video timing chips on the Apple ][ mainboard, and which carried a cable to connect to the main 80 column card. Maybe it's for that. Maybe it's a light pen connector. Maybe it's a video input for sutomatically switching the monitor between the 80 column card and the Apple's 40 column output. > > ZIF-socketed card ("unknown_04.jpg" on the website): The ZIF socket is a > 28-pin unit. I'd say it was a programmer, but wouldn't it need an external 24V Sounds like an EPROM programmer. Is there an step-up converter on the card (any 'wound components'?) > (??) supply if that were true? The 40-pin chip is marked as "S6821P", whatever That's a simpler 16 bit parallel I/O chip. > one of those is. The first 3 of the switches are labelled as '16', the next 3 > as '32' and the last 4 (overlapping by 1 with the previous 3) as '64'. Presumably to select 2716/2732/2764 EPROMs. > > Card with 8 LEDs and 4 empty 16-pin DIL sockets ("unknown_02.jpg" on the > website): Any ideas? Possibly a joystick controller or something and the > joysticks plugged in via the DIL sockets? The two 40-pin chips are 6522's. > There's a back of 8 DIP-switches on board, plus a switch in the top-right which > just seems to enable or disable the LEDs as far as I can see. Sounds like a user I/O card for hardware hacking type projects. You've got 32 I/O lines there, presumably brouhgt out the DIL sockets. You connect those to your own hardware, etc... > > Card with remote pushbutton switch ("unknown_03.jpg" on the website): All TTL > logic on board, ROM is a 2716 chip. Underside is labelled "Wild card". Anyone > seen one of these or know what it is? _Maybe_ one of those cards to interrupt the Apple after loading a copy-protected game, etc so you could save an image of memory to disk. > > cheers for any help or pointers on the above, The above are all wid guesses -- I'm not even an Apple ][ person... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 5 13:32:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Jun 5, 3 09:51:11 am Message-ID: > Sellam indicated that he thinks the modulator came with all IIc's, but I > have to question... Why? The IIc already has a composite video out, so > why also ship with the modulator. I am confused. Composite video is 'baseband' video, right? You either connect that to the composite video input on a TV/monitor, or feed it into a modulator to turn it into a modulated RF carrier you can connect to the aerial (antenna) connection of a TV set. A modulator doesn't seem to be redundant if you have composite video and a live-chassis TV with no video input socket. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 5 13:32:16 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: <00f501c32b6b$3a945300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jun 5, 3 10:03:23 am Message-ID: > boxes for VGA->NTSC... they're inexpensive now. An RGB to > NTSC converter may more properly be called a "scan converter", > "modulator" is typically the name given to NTSC -> RF over coax. To me, a 'scan converter' has to convert the scanning rates -- say between European and USA TV, or between VGA video and TV. A box which converts TV-rate RGB video to an NTSC composite signal is an 'NTSC colour enocder', and I susepct is technically (at least in part) a modulator [1]. [1] It amplitude- and phase- modulates the 3.58 colour subcarrier for one thing... -tony From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jun 5 13:55:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000901c32b93$58513610$5b01a8c0@athlon> > :-)... That;s the sort of machine that would probably do the > job... Pity > it's not available commercially... I expect that there are no more PCBs available (unless another run is done) but I think all the schematics and layouts are available so you can make your own. (Which reminds me, I need to get around to figuring out which parts I don't have lying around and then get around to ordering them otherwise I'll never built it!). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jun 5 13:56:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator Message-ID: >> Sellam indicated that he thinks the modulator came with all IIc's, but I >> have to question... Why? The IIc already has a composite video out, so >> why also ship with the modulator. > >To make it easier to hook into a television. Trust me on this one. Never mind... I think I just realized it. I took another look at the units and realized I was mistaken as to which one had the Channel 3/4 selector switch. I thought Apple included it into the "Switch Box", leaving the "Modulator" to be completely redundant with the composite output that the IIc already has built in. In fact, I was mistaken, the 3/4 switch is on the "Modulator", which means it isn't a composite output but rather a RF output using an RCA connector (as might be expected to plug into the Switch Box). Realizing my mistake on which carried that ability, I now fully understand why Apple included it since it in fact is NOT the same output as already on the IIc. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 13:59:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030605185441.80397.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Well, my 'main' PDP11 has both Unibus and Qbus (!). It's an 11/45 with a > DW11-B. On the Unibus side I have memory, RX11-C, RX611, DR11-Bs, paper > tape, etc. On the Q-bus side I have an RLV11, MINC modules, IBV11, etc... > > Quite an unconventional system... Neat. I also have a DW11-B (and the DDV11B backplane to go with it). When I got it, it only had an IBV11 in it. I haven't bothered to use something like an RLV11 with it because I have more than one RL11. I don't know what I'd call my "main" PDP-11 system at the moment. The one I have spent the most accumulated time on is a PDP-11/23 in a (modified) BA-11N, with 512KB of RAM, an RLV11, LPV11, RXV21 and a third-party 512x512 graphic board. I used it to earn my living in 1986 and 1987, writing software under RT-11 for an customer whose target machine was a 4MB PDP-11/73 w/Fuji Eagle, greyscale electrostatic printer and GE motion controller that was used to inspect industrial diamonds in an ultrasonic tank. Big fun! 350K (output) of MACRO-11 code. The other -11 that I've put some time and effort into is an 11/24 w/KT-24, a few megs of RAM, RL11, that I've installed 2.9BSD onto. > For hardware hacking, I find the Unibus to be simpler. I also have more > 'exotic' controllers for that bus.. True. Me, too... disk, tape, DEC comms, abundant COMBOARDs, etc. > > ...my SBC-6120 w/IOB-6120 fits the bill... > > :-)... That;s the sort of machine that would probably do the job... Pity > it's not available commercially... It's also not cheap... End-to-end, it cost more than nearly all of my "real" PDP-8s (15 years ago, I did spend over $1,000 on an RL8A, RL01, VT52, KT8A and MSC8DJ to attach to a *free* PDP-8/a, just to play around; fortunately for me, most of the peripherals were lying around to attach to the aforementioned PDP-11/23). There are side benefits, though; I'm getting plenty of SMT practice assembling the IOB-6120. -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 5 14:01:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: OT: FW: THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030605095615.0f1ff1e6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > > I must have lived too long to understand the world as it > >is anymore. So, if I die while my old, wrinkled butt is > >parked in front of this computer, I want you to blame > >Bill Gates...okay? We can blame Bill Gates for FAR MORE than that! Take a look at who he provided technical assistance and ideas to. The color balance is completely wrong, but otherwise, this is an accurate scan of a commercial package whose implicit and explicit suggestions caused major problems: Front Back -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jpdavis at gorge.net Thu Jun 5 14:33:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EDF98B3.5040005@gorge.net> chris wrote: >> I am thinking about the thing for the IIc+ >> >> > >Sellam indicated that he thinks the modulator came with all IIc's, but I >have to question... Why? The IIc already has a composite video out, so >why also ship with the modulator. > >For that matter... why make the modulator at all?!? If the IIc has >composite video, why bother with an RGB to composite? Does the IIc+ not >have the composite? > > >I would not be surprised if the Computer/TV slide switch shipped with all >IIc's, much like they shipped with all Atari 2600's. Just a cheap item to >toss in so people can connect it to their TV set. But including an >apparently redundant function modulator, that just seems silly. > >-chris > > > > Most televisions in the late 70's - early 80's came with RF in only. If you wanted comp in, you had to buy a "monitor". Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500. Jim Davis. From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 5 15:02:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: New to list... In-Reply-To: <20030605050944.37759.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030605050944.37759.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- jamesd wrote: > > > it was 266 each way for me... i'm in milwaukee.... > > Was? I thought you hadn't gone yet. > I was going to say... all this talk about old Sun hardware and I'm > minded to ask if you do go and you don't want to haul the 4/6xx, if > you'd pull the CPU board and ship it to me for a reasonable amount. I > still have this 3/60 case here... I know of someone not too far from the area listed on the seller's page that might be interested in giving the system a home, but I'll have to check with him and see. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 5 15:08:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: <000801c32b8d$cad49b60$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <000801c32b8d$cad49b60$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Also, remember in newer boxes, it's three slots of Q22-CD, with the > > rest Q22-Q22. Older boxes can be wired for either > > IIRC that's true of the BA23 but the larger BA123 is four slots of Q-CD > and then serpentine Q-Q. > > The even newer BA200 series (BA213/BA214) and probably everything after > that (which is mostly just the BA400 stuff) is AFAIK all Q-CD. Are you sure? I believe my BA215 has at least 5 Q-CD slots (well, I think anyway) as I have the cpu board and 4 memory boards in it. Come to think of it, don't these only have 6 slots? -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 5 15:17:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > It might be that the DE-9's don't have a standard PC serial pinout. At > work, we have a UPS that uses a DE-9 for programming, but the pinout on > the cable (a 940-0024C; Googling produces a number of hits) is > > Female Male > 1-4 > 2------------2 > 3------------1 > 5------------6 > 6 NC > 7-8 > 9 NC Let me guess...APC? :) Their ports are very fun, since if you plug in a standard serial cable, and open the port, it can turn off the UPS. The UPS' port supports both a dump-mode DTR/RTS/etc signaling as well as a smart-mode. The cable above is their "smart" cable. The 1-4 and 7-8 connections are also not needed if you are not using 3rd party software such as NUT, as they are just loop back connections. -Toth From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jun 5 15:48:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c32ba3$24264fa0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > Also, remember in newer boxes, it's three slots of > Q22-CD, with the > > > rest Q22-Q22. Older boxes can be wired for either > > > > IIRC that's true of the BA23 but the larger BA123 is four slots of > > Q-CD and then serpentine Q-Q. > > > > The even newer BA200 series (BA213/BA214) and probably everything > > after that (which is mostly just the BA400 stuff) is AFAIK all Q-CD. > > Are you sure? I believe my BA215 has at least 5 Q-CD slots > (well, I think > anyway) as I have the cpu board and 4 memory boards in it. > Come to think of it, don't these only have 6 slots? Sure about which bit? I'm reasonably sure that the BA123 (old style world box most often used for the MicroVAX II) is four slots of Q22-CD and then serpentine Q22-Q22. I'm fairly sure the BA23 (smaller box, same size as the Rainbow) has one less Q22-CD slot (hence it has 3). I'm sure that the BA200 series boxes are all Q22-CD, and the BA200 Series Module Design Guide agrees with me there. In fact, I think you were agreeing with me too, unless you meant BA123 where you typed BA215. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 5 15:53:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 books, IPC Peripherals CD changer.... In-Reply-To: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Just grabbed these out of a trash pile here in the hallways of the Yale > School of Med... > - IPC Peripherals MCD-1040 4X 7 disc CD changer library. > > I grabbed the books, figuring someone here would want them. As for the > CD changer, does anyone know/have about special drivers for the beastie, > or should work as a standard SCSI CD drive? I'm not familiar with that exact model of cdrom changer, but I have a number of NEC and Pioneer units. All of the SCSI cdrom changers I've used have a device id for the drive itself, and a lun for each of the discs. Most OS have no trouble assigning each lun as a drive, but it can get tricky under DOS, depending on the host adapter's software. The changer should automatically switch discs as you access the different luns. What does the unit look like? My NEC changers have a row of 7 buttons across the front for loading each of the 7 discs, while my Pioneer drives use a 6 disc magazine. (I'm always happy to give other Pioneer changers a home too, if anyone here needs to get rid of any.) One thing about the Pioneer drives and their magazine, is that if you ever need to ship or transport those units, you *must* remove the magazine. If you don't, one of the 6 shelves will swing out and damage the pickup. I've got a couple drives with that kind of damage currently waiting for me to make time to repair them. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 5 15:56:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was In-Reply-To: <20030605185441.80397.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 5, 3 11:54:41 am Message-ID: > Neat. I also have a DW11-B (and the DDV11B backplane to go with it). I haev the 2 halves in separate cabinets. The Unibus (quad height) board is in the 11/45's BA11-F, the Qbus (dual height) board is in the backplane of the MINC chassis, with a couple of 40 way ribbon cables linking them. Works fine (but then it's DEC, so it would :-)) > When I got it, it only had an IBV11 in it. I haven't bothered to use > something like an RLV11 with it because I have more than one RL11. When I started puitting this machine together, I didn't have an RL11. The RLV11 and RL01s came with the MINC, and one reason for this set-up was to get RL drives on the 11/45. Now I have a couple of real RL11s. I really should reconfigure it one day... Incidentally, I once repaired a DEC gamma-11, which is a medical imaging display system. It's an 11/34 with a VS60 in it, and lots of custom I/O cards. Some of those are Q-bus. There was a 5.25" expanison box with 2 quad backplanes in it. One was Unibus, the other Qbus, and there was a DW11-B linking them. Made me do a double-take when I first pulled it out! > I don't know what I'd call my "main" PDP-11 system at the moment. The > one I have spent the most accumulated time on is a PDP-11/23 in a > (modified) BA-11N, with 512KB of RAM, an RLV11, LPV11, RXV21 and > a third-party 512x512 graphic board. I used it to earn my living in That reminds me. I must get the I2S displays running again (512*512*30 bits (or 24 bits), with some local intellegence...) > The other -11 that I've put some time and effort into is an 11/24 > w/KT-24, a few megs of RAM, RL11, that I've installed 2.9BSD onto. I never much cared for the 11/24. Having the CPU in a few custom LSI chips spoils the fun. I must have another go with the 11/44, though... > > > For hardware hacking, I find the Unibus to be simpler. I also have more > > 'exotic' controllers for that bus.. > > True. Me, too... disk, tape, DEC comms, abundant COMBOARDs, etc. I got a boatload of comms cards in a clearout. DUP11s, DMC11s, DMR11s, a KMC11, etc. Even a couple of DX11s (not, that's not a typo for RX11). Pity I've not nothing to connect the latter to. > It's also not cheap... End-to-end, it cost more than nearly all of my Ah.... [...] > to attach to the aforementioned PDP-11/23). There are side benefits, > though; I'm getting plenty of SMT practice assembling the IOB-6120. SMT assemnly/rework has never really bothered me. The first chip I did was a bit nerve-wracking, but I soon got used to it... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 5 15:58:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: <3EDF98B3.5040005@gorge.net> from "Jim Davis" at Jun 5, 3 12:23:31 pm Message-ID: > Most televisions in the late 70's - early 80's came with RF in only. If And many of them had a live ('hot') chassis so it was non-trivial to add a composite video input... > you wanted comp in, you had to buy a "monitor". > Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500. On the other hand, they still work 20 years later, unlike the modern plastic crap I see for sale. -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jun 5 16:08:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards Message-ID: <20030605210257.58459.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> > Is that Mitac computer an Apple II clone? I hope to find out in the next few days :-} I believe I was given it about 6-7 years ago and it's been on the list of things to look at someday ever since!! It was next to the box of cards in the room where most of my comps are stored, so I fished it out with the hope of trying to see if it works sometime over the next few days. It almost certainly appears to be a Japanese Apple 2 clone though, with built-in disk interface, 80-column output, RF output (unsure whether that's NTSC or PAL or even something else yet), joystick interfaces etc. all on two boards within the machine - there's even a Z80 CPU in there but I'm not sure if it behaves like a 'proper' CP/M card or if it's just there to control some of the machine's hardware. Pretty loaded-up little beast anyway. I've got both 120V and 220V power supplies for it; why someone would have had both I'm not sure but there you go. I've also got two of the units that connect to the expansion socket at the back of the machine and provide standard (assuming it is a clone!) A2 bus connectors - again I have no idea why I have two, not like I can use more than one at once anyway! My Apple 2 disk drives and any kind of suitable monitor are all too far buried at the moment for me to get at them, but I'll check the machine over for obvious probs before trying to hook it up to my TV sometime in the next few days. I couldn't find any information on the machine on the 'net, but then I suppose in the Apple 2's heyday there were an awful lot of clone machines around. cheers Jules From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jun 5 16:12:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 books, IPC Peripherals CD changer.... References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Just grabbed these out of a trash pile here in the hallways of the Yale > > School of Med... > > > - IPC Peripherals MCD-1040 4X 7 disc CD changer library. > > > > I grabbed the books, figuring someone here would want them. As for the > > CD changer, does anyone know/have about special drivers for the beastie, > > or should work as a standard SCSI CD drive? > > I'm not familiar with that exact model of cdrom changer, but I have a > number of NEC and Pioneer units. All of the SCSI cdrom changers I've used > have a device id for the drive itself, and a lun for each of the discs. > Most OS have no trouble assigning each lun as a drive, but it can get > tricky under DOS, depending on the host adapter's software. The changer > should automatically switch discs as you access the different luns. > > What does the unit look like? My NEC changers have a row of 7 buttons > across the front for loading each of the 7 discs, while my Pioneer drives > use a 6 disc magazine. (I'm always happy to give other Pioneer changers a > home too, if anyone here needs to get rid of any.) One thing about the > Pioneer drives and their magazine, is that if you ever need to ship or > transport those units, you *must* remove the magazine. If you don't, one > of the 6 shelves will swing out and damage the pickup. I've got a couple > drives with that kind of damage currently waiting for me to make time to > repair them. > > -Toth Yeah, I have an NEC (?) internal IDE 4 disc changer. Pretty neat... Well, the whole thing itself is about 4"Hx7"Wx13"D... Across the top of the face is the headphone jack, volume knob, 7 buttons in a row (for each disc) then the status light. Below that is the tray to load the discs. And the tray is wider than your standard CD tray... With this faceplate on it, my only choice is to keep it as an external drive. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jun 5 16:14:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: id this 88100/88200 CPU card? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030605121607.3cdfbd14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>; from rigdonj@cfl.rr.com on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 14:16:07 CEST References: <3.0.6.16.20030605121607.3cdfbd14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030605203103.W257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.05 14:16 Joe wrote: > I picked up a pile of cards yesterday at a scrap place. One of them > has a Motorola XC81100RC25G and four XC88200RC25E ICs on it. [...] > Anybody know what it might be for? CPU module for a Motorola MVME CPU board? CPU module for a DataGeneral AViiON? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 5 16:14:06 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: <000201c32ba3$24264fa0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <000201c32ba3$24264fa0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > > IIRC that's true of the BA23 but the larger BA123 is four slots of > > > Q-CD and then serpentine Q-Q. > > > > > > The even newer BA200 series (BA213/BA214) and probably everything > > > after that (which is mostly just the BA400 stuff) is AFAIK all Q-CD. > > > > Are you sure? I believe my BA215 has at least 5 Q-CD slots (well, I > > think anyway) as I have the cpu board and 4 memory boards in it. > > Come to think of it, don't these only have 6 slots? > > Sure about which bit? I'm reasonably sure that the BA123 (old style > world box most often used for the MicroVAX II) is four slots of Q22-CD > and then serpentine Q22-Q22. I'm fairly sure the BA23 (smaller box, same > size as the Rainbow) has one less Q22-CD slot (hence it has 3). > > I'm sure that the BA200 series boxes are all Q22-CD, and the BA200 > Series Module Design Guide agrees with me there. In fact, I think you > were agreeing with me too, unless you meant BA123 where you typed BA215. No disagreement, I just misread your comments. The only major issue I've had with the BA215 is the lack of slots. I guess a BA213 might suit me better, but I haven't been able to obtain one just yet. By the time I maxed out the ram with 4 boards and installed a TK70 controller, all the slots in my BA215 were gone :) Since we are on the subject of VAXen... What would be the most likely problem with a BA123 MicroVAX II that powers up, but sometimes totally locks up during the diagnostics? (I'm not even sure it can boot, as some of the RD53s sound a little sick.) I've pretty much eliminated the boards as the cause, and the only things left are the backplane and power supply. It does have those older power supply to backplane wiring harness cables, which I guess I need to replace before I put many boards in the card cage. -Toth From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jun 5 16:23:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards Message-ID: <20030605211818.53263.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> >> I came across a whole boxful of Apple II cards at the weekend that I'd >> forgotten I actually owned. > > Things get buried way to easily in this "Hobby", yes they do - I've been moving around too much the last few years so pretty much everything's been in storage. Hopefully all of my Sinclair and Acorn stuff should be going on loan to a local technology museum at some point for display - I hate the way everything's shut away in a room at the moment (er, actually rooms, loft and with the bigger stuff in the garage :-) > I was never really much of an apple user, came by my collection by > fluike and just kept adding to it. nor me. I was given an Apple /// with a couple of ProFile hard drives a few years back and it started from there - I'm not sure what strange cards are lurking in the machines themselves at present. If anyone comes up with anything interesting on these boards I'll let you know; I've posted the same questions to comp.sys.apple2 but I'm not sure how active the group is these days. As far as the Z80 card goes a quick search of the 'net revealed a lot of 'Z80 card' boards but not 'Z80 card II' boards. I have no idea if the different name is significant or not yet :) cheers Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 5 16:28:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Qbus Backplanes" (Jun 5, 7:28) References: <20030605142851.27067.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10306052222.ZM4420@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 7:28, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > Hello people. Is there any way to tell if a backplane is QQQQ or QQCD by > > looking at it, and without having to pull the backplane out of the > > chassis? > In some older chassis, you can see the backplane wiring, but not on > boxes like the BA23 or BA123. > > > What if I can find the model number of the chassis? > > That's useful... The model numbers that look like BA-23, BA-11N, BA-11M, > etc., are the ones you want. > > Also, remember in newer boxes, it's three slots of Q22-CD, with the > rest Q22-Q22. That's true for a BA23 (3 slots plus 5), but in a BA123 it's four Q-CD, eight Q-Q, and the thirteenth slot is not bussed at all. > Older boxes can be wired for either 18-bit or 22-bit addressing, > which may or may not involve Q-CD slots. I _think_ the BA-11N is a > 18-bit Q-CD box... that's what I remember my 11/23 is in (but I > added the extra wires some time ago to make it Q22). Yes, a normal BA11-N is Q-CD. So is a BA11-S. If you can read the H92xx number off the backplane (it's often visible without too much effort, for example it's on the top of a BA11-M/N/S backplane) you can look that up to see if it's straight (Q-CD), serpentine (Q-Q) or mixed. The following is not exhaustive, but includes the common ones: PDP-11/03 BA11-M H9270 18-bit 4 x Q-Q PDP-11/23 BA11-N H9273 18-bit 9 x Q-CD H9275 22-bit 9 x Q-Q PDP-11/23+ BA11-S H9276 22-bit 9 x Q-CD microPDP-11 BA23 H9278 22-bit 3 x Q-CD, 5 x Q-Q H9281 18-bit various sizes, only two slots (AB) microPDP-11 BA123 54-17507 or 70-22019 22-bit 4 x Q-CD, 8 x Q-Q, 1 x non-bus DDV11 18-bit 9 x Q-Q, slots EF are separate Q-Q backplanes are usually referred to as serpentine (or sometimes as zig-zag), Q-CD as straight. Serpentine slot order goes like this: slot 1 ----> slot 2 | V slot 4 <---- slot 3 | V slot 5 ----> slot 6 etc Some of the backplanes have optional jumpers to enable/disable LTC interrupt, or for termination. Many carry the SRUN_L signal only on row 1. Beware of such differences when changing backplanes or linking two together. The DDV11 is unusual in being hex-height instead of quad-height; the extra slots are nor bussed, except for +5,V, 0V, and -12V, but may carry odd voltages, depending on which OEM or experimenter last used it! There's a rumour that the first 3/4 slots in a BA23/123 are special and you can't use them for anything except memory or processor; that's rubbish, they're normal Q22-CD slots and you can put anything that's Q-CD compatible in them, so long as it's after the processor. What *is* special is the range of PMI memory boards; if you put them in *front* of a KDJ11-B they use the CD interconnect for the Private Memory Interface but if you put them *after* the CPU they use the Q-Bus like all other memory boards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jun 5 16:38:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: <000201c32ba3$24264fa0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Sure about which bit? I'm reasonably sure that the BA123 (old style > world box most often used for the MicroVAX II) is four slots of > Q22-CD and then serpentine Q22-Q22. I'm fairly sure the BA23 (smaller > box, same size as the Rainbow) has one less Q22-CD slot (hence it has > 3). My BA23's and BA123's are like this, yes. --fred From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 5 16:43:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was" (Jun 5, 21:45) References: Message-ID: <10306052233.ZM4534@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 21:45, Tony Duell wrote: > I got a boatload of comms cards in a clearout. DUP11s, DMC11s, DMR11s, a > KMC11, etc. Even a couple of DX11s (not, that's not a typo for RX11). > Pity I've not nothing to connect the latter to. Last time I saw a DX11, it was a whole rack, not just one card. I think I know where to find something to connect it to, though :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 5 16:43:07 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "RE: Qbus Backplanes" (Jun 5, 16:19) References: <000201c32ba3$24264fa0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <10306052237.ZM4537@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 16:19, Tothwolf wrote: > Since we are on the subject of VAXen... > > What would be the most likely problem with a BA123 MicroVAX II that powers > up, but sometimes totally locks up during the diagnostics? (I'm not even > sure it can boot, as some of the RD53s sound a little sick.) I've pretty > much eliminated the boards as the cause, and the only things left are the > backplane and power supply. It does have those older power supply to > backplane wiring harness cables, which I guess I need to replace before I > put many boards in the card cage. Could be voltage drop between PSU and backplane, resulting in low voltage on the cards. Part of the problem with the harness (which was discussed here some months ago, in a different context) is that parts go high-resistance. Check the voltage (especially the +5V) on one of the cards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 5 16:47:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: vance@neurotica.com "Re: Qbus Backplanes" (Jun 5, 17:31) References: Message-ID: <10306052241.ZM4572@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 17:31, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > And what do you do if you want to use a QQQQ-only processor in a QQCD > backplane? Put it in the QQQQ-end? I've never heard of a QQQQ-only processor. Do you have one in mind? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 5 16:50:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Sig-Net disk reading In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Gareth Knight wrote: > Hi folks, > I'm having trouble converting some Sig-Net > (http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=810) SD/DS 5.25 As is stated on that page, Shelton had three formats: "200K, 400K, and 800K". NONE of those are "SD/DS". The 200K is SSDD 48TPI the 400K is DSDD 48TPI the 800K is DSDD 96TPI (sometimes called "quad density" by the marketing people) If they ever had an "SD/DS" format, it is not mentioned there. Do you know what you have? > disks to a DOS format. I've tested some of the instructions on > http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/Cpm/oldflop.html (22Disk, PCW Explorer, etc.) > with little success. > Can anyone provide other suggestions for likely DOS apps to try? 22Disk should be able to read them if you define the format correctly, since XenoCopy has no problems with the 200K, 400K and 800K. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 5 16:50:27 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Optimem 600 worm drives In-Reply-To: <3EDD979F.9A987198@optonline.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, rjk wrote: > the information and details provided by richard erlacher are completely false and Is Dick back? From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Jun 5 16:53:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Teletype References: <200306041655.JAA18700@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3EDFBAA1.5070308@cox.net> Okay... That's what I get for not reading the original post! -Bryan Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi > The right idea, wrong direction. I would think that a >60Hz inverter would work fine. You could get one of those >automatic leveling battery chargers, a small gelcel and >a 60Hz inverter. >Dwight > > > > >>From: "Bryan Blackburn" >> >>Wouldn't it be so much easier to make a power inverter to run at 50 Hz >>and save all the time and expense of finding gears & etc. & etc.?? I >>have a power inverter that would be a simple cap change (two of them) to >>run 50 Hz. Output power is about 250 Watts now, maybe 175-200 at 50 Hz >>(or would it be more?)? How much power does a 33 take? Discuss... >> >>-Bryan From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 5 17:00:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: id this 88100/88200 CPU card? In-Reply-To: <20030605203103.W257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <3.0.6.16.20030605121607.3cdfbd14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030605121607.3cdfbd14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030605165441.0196f060@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 08:31 PM 6/5/2003 +0200, you wrote: >On 2003.06.05 14:16 Joe wrote: > > > I picked up a pile of cards yesterday at a scrap place. One of them > > has a Motorola XC81100RC25G and four XC88200RC25E ICs on it. >[...] > > Anybody know what it might be for? Sorry, I missed the first message on this subject. Was there more info or a pic to see? If it is a large board with a ton of LSI logic, then it could be a board from a BBN TC2000 multiprocessor. --tom From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Jun 5 17:06:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Teletype & inverters References: Message-ID: <3EDFBD91.60904@cox.net> The biggest problem is that induction motors draw three to four times the rated load on startup. Otherwise, a modified sinewave inverter would work fine. I have a 24 volt input, 120 v output, 60 Hz, continous 2500 Watt modified sinewave, Trace inverter sitting on my bench if anyone is interested. It is rated to put out nearly 9000 Watts into an inductive load for 30 seconds, which is enough to start nearly anything, and has a built-in 50 Amp battery charger, voltmeter & etc. & etc... -Bryan Tony Duell wrote: >>Wouldn't it be so much easier to make a power inverter to run at 50 Hz >> >> > >The problem is that many simple/cheap inverters have _horrible_ output >waveforms. Induction motors (as used in the Model 33) don't like them, >and actually, the inverters don't much like highly inductive loads... > > > >>and save all the time and expense of finding gears & etc. & etc.?? I >>have a power inverter that would be a simple cap change (two of them) to >> >> > >I believe we actually want a 60Hz inverter here. > >-tony From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 5 17:06:09 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: GP-10 Message-ID: <200306052201.PAA19777@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Matt I don't have a GP-6 or GP-10. I do have a EC-1. I would suspect that you could do the bouncing ball simulation with the GP-10 ( I assume that means it has 10 op-amps ). The things you need besides capacitors and resistors is a couple of diodes for the nonlinear things ( like the ball bounce on the ground ) and sine/cosine source. The computer needs reset relays to set initial values for the integrators and pots to generate the constants. The HeathKit has you make an external sine/cosine source, using 60Hz from the wall. This typically doesn't do vary good with the noise that most modern equipment has, since they make the 90 shift with a highpass. The original Heathkit example used 9 op-amps but I came up with a way to do it with only 8. This leaves two to make a sine/cosine oscillator. I'll have to dig up the schematic that I put someplace. You can live without the sine/cosine, since it is just to make the ball round. To display, you need an oscilloscope or a X-Y plotter. As for setting the unit up, I suspect there is a balance adjustment for each op-amp. For my tube machine, I found that I had to balance the integrators for zero drift instead of zero voltage offset. I suspect that this is because input current offset and input voltage offset are not the same thing. Dwight >From: "Matthew Wadham-Gagnon" > >Hi Dwight, > >I've been looking for examples/labs that would take me through the correct >procedure to setup/operate a GP-10 analog computer. I found your email in a >discussion about the GP-6 along with links to two labs on how to use it. They >seem pretty good except for a few details that probably apply specifically to >the GP-6. > >Thanks, > >Matt > >Matthew Wadham-Gagnon >McGill University, Montreal >Mechanical Engineering, Honours From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 5 17:14:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:09 2005 Subject: Teletype Message-ID: <200306052209.PAA19801@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bryan That is OK, as it turns out, he had a 50Hz motor anyway to match his line. He seems to have moved on to other more serious problems. Dwight >From: "Bryan Blackburn" > >Okay... That's what I get for not reading the original post! > >-Bryan > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >>Hi >> The right idea, wrong direction. I would think that a >>60Hz inverter would work fine. You could get one of those >>automatic leveling battery chargers, a small gelcel and >>a 60Hz inverter. >>Dwight >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Bryan Blackburn" >>> >>>Wouldn't it be so much easier to make a power inverter to run at 50 Hz >>>and save all the time and expense of finding gears & etc. & etc.?? I >>>have a power inverter that would be a simple cap change (two of them) to >>>run 50 Hz. Output power is about 250 Watts now, maybe 175-200 at 50 Hz >>>(or would it be more?)? How much power does a 33 take? Discuss... >>> >>>-Bryan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 5 18:08:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: Peter Turnbull "Re: Qbus Backplanes" (Jun 5, 22:41) References: <10306052241.ZM4572@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10306060002.ZM4670@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 22:41, Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Jun 5, 17:31, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > > And what do you do if you want to use a QQQQ-only processor in a QQCD > > backplane? Put it in the QQQQ-end? > > I've never heard of a QQQQ-only processor. Do you have one in mind? OK, so I've just thought of one that might be. An early 11/03 quad-height M7264 was meant for a Q-Q H9270 backplane and presumably that's what Sridhar is thinking of. However, I don't think it's what he calls a QQQQ-only processor. I'd have to look at the print set or a board to be sure, but IIRC the M7264 actually has Q-Bus on its A&B slots, so it would be OK in a Q-CD backplane, so long as the module underneath it didn't use the upper contacts on its own C&D slots (C and D aren't bussed; the lower contacts on C&D are only connected to the upper contacts of the slot below). However, just before I hit "send", Sridhar told me what he *was* thinking of: > Yeah. DECsystem 5500. (MIPSFAIR-2) Chuch McManis told me it's > QQQQ-only. It normally fits into a BA430 which is a BA440 with no > PELE stuff in it. It uses out-of-band signaling (on ribbon cables) > for RAM. The short answer is "I don't know". FWIW, here are my thoughts. I would be amazed if it put any signal(s) on the relevant pin(s) on *both* the A&B and C&D slots (because that would lead to multiple signal paths). I'd be rather surprised if it put some on A&B and some on C&D, but if it did, or if it put QBus signals on C&D, it would definitely have to go in the first Q-Q row. Or maybe the second, something I saw about it suggests an I/O module is supposed to go in front of it, and then the argument applies to the I/O module, really. However, the logical way to build such a board would be with the QBus signals on A&B, like I believe the M7264 does -- unless the bus length is critical, and it needs the shortest path between the first and second rows, which is the C&D slots. But would it physically fit any other backplane than its own? Don't those new-fangled things have different handles to anything that fits a Q-CD backplane? Chuck? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 5 18:15:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: [Fwd: [swap] WTB: Technical/Scientific Mac Hardware + Software] Message-ID: <3EDFCDE8.7010004@eoni.com> This might be of interest to someone here... Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [swap] WTB: Technical/Scientific Mac Hardware + Software Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:39:44 -0400 From: "Tom Bannon" To: "LEM Swap List" LEM-Swap is for buying & selling Mac stuff. It is not a discussion list. See the FAQ for guidelines on postings, feedback, and dispute resolution. -------------------- To those of you that come across box lots of software or unusual hardware: I'm for older versions of scientific analysis, data logging, image analysis software that runs on biege Powermacs or even 68ks. Hardware interfaces that control scientific instruments are also of interest. Things that are biotech related would me most useful, but if you've bought box lots of software or hardware and think something might be laboratory related drop me a line. Its great to put older Macs to work in the lab even if the software/instrument isn't state of the art. Tom Bannon 48917 From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 5 18:16:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 books, IPC Peripherals CD changer.... In-Reply-To: <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > I'm not familiar with that exact model of cdrom changer, but I have a > > number of NEC and Pioneer units. All of the SCSI cdrom changers I've > > used have a device id for the drive itself, and a lun for each of the > > discs. Most OS have no trouble assigning each lun as a drive, but it > > can get tricky under DOS, depending on the host adapter's software. > > The changer should automatically switch discs as you access the > > different luns. > > > > What does the unit look like? My NEC changers have a row of 7 buttons > > across the front for loading each of the 7 discs, while my Pioneer > > drives use a 6 disc magazine. (I'm always happy to give other Pioneer > > changers a home too, if anyone here needs to get rid of any.) One > > thing about the Pioneer drives and their magazine, is that if you ever > > need to ship or transport those units, you *must* remove the magazine. > > If you don't, one of the 6 shelves will swing out and damage the > > pickup. I've got a couple drives with that kind of damage currently > > waiting for me to make time to repair them. > > Yeah, I have an NEC (?) internal IDE 4 disc changer. Pretty neat... The only major issue I have with the NEC changers I have is that their audio quality is extremely poor. I don't remember the specs off the top of my head, but I think their range is something like 1.5KHz-10KHz. When I did a little research, I found that pretty much all the NEC drives were like that, so I guess NEC didn't think people would be using their drives for audio. IMHO, they should have just left off the volume control and headphone jack if that was the case. The Pioneer drives OTOH, are spec'd at 20Hz-20KHz, but they seem to perform slightly better than spec. The issue I've had with the Pioneer drives is that they do not support digital audio, and Pioneer has not been easy to get a firmware upgrade out of. All of my DRM-604X drives have older firmware (2401, 2403, 2404), but there is supposedly a 2405 or 2406 available. According to Pioneer, a firmware kit made up of two EPROMs used to be available for under $20, but now all they have available are the two individual chips that made up the kit...and get this...they want ~$45/ea for them. For some reason, the Linux SCSI layer won't work with the 2401 and 2403 firmware, although it used to (another todo item I guess). The 2405 and/or 2406 firmware supposedly fixed the problems with multi-session and the combination audio/data cds (those so-called "enhanced" cds). Both drive types are pretty easy to service, but the Pioneer design is the best I've seen. After you remove the top cover, the PC board folds to one side, exposing the drive mech. The optic mech is then easily removed for cleaning, as it is on the top side. The discs actually go into the magazines with the label side down. > Well, the whole thing itself is about 4"Hx7"Wx13"D... Across the top of > the face is the headphone jack, volume knob, 7 buttons in a row (for > each disc) then the status light. Below that is the tray to load the > discs. And the tray is wider than your standard CD tray... With this > faceplate on it, my only choice is to keep it as an external drive. That drive sounds very similar in design to the NEC drives I have. I have to wonder if it isn't a rebadged or OEM drive? Does it use a regular external SCSI drive chassis, or is it a custom case? The NEC and Pioneer changers I have are all custom cases. -Toth From jpdavis at gorge.net Thu Jun 5 18:47:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EDFD450.60801@gorge.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>Most televisions in the late 70's - early 80's came with RF in only. If >> >> > >And many of them had a live ('hot') chassis so it was non-trivial to add >a composite video input... > > > >>you wanted comp in, you had to buy a "monitor". >>Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500. >> >> > >On the other hand, they still work 20 years later, unlike the modern >plastic crap I see for sale. > >-tony > > > No kidding, I must have six cheap VCRs in various states of disrepair. OT: I still have a 2X sony clamshell scsi CD rom drive from the early 80's, Still works. Paid $300. I have dozens of broken, cheap CDROM drives, some less than a year old. Too bad warranty shipping cost more then replacement cost. Jim. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 5 18:51:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was In-Reply-To: <10306052233.ZM4534@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Peter Turnbull" at Jun 5, 3 10:33:04 pm Message-ID: > Last time I saw a DX11, it was a whole rack, not just one card. I Yes. 8 rows of flip-chip cards (almost all slots used) + a PSU, a lights panel, and a power interlock IIRC. > think I know where to find something to connect it to, though :-) Which, presumably, is even bigger than my 11/45 system :-) -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jun 5 19:43:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today Message-ID: <000701c32bc4$02df2a30$3a0ddd40@oemcomputer> Well the Commodore CD-1000 CDTV box came today and now the search starts for the mouse, 3.5 FD, remote control, keyboard, and monitor for it. Also the manuals for it. There is a good write-up and pic's of it at www.cdtv.org.uk/1254.html. It's based on the Amiga with a 68000 @ 7.14Mhz chip. Anyone having extra parts for this computer that they do not need contact me off list. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Jun 5 20:27:01 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator References: Message-ID: <008b01c32bca$1f0f4b30$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:17 AM Subject: Re: Cool little modulator > > Most televisions in the late 70's - early 80's came with RF in only. If > > And many of them had a live ('hot') chassis so it was non-trivial to add > a composite video input... Quite. > > you wanted comp in, you had to buy a "monitor". > > Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500. Or more. > On the other hand, they still work 20 years later, unlike the modern > plastic crap I see for sale. I still have a circa 1980 Sony Beta that's 8" high 14" deep and about 18" long and it weighs a *lot*, however, it still works. (I saved it from a scrapyard and replaced the only faulty component - a fuse - some 10 years back.) Geoff in Oz From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jun 5 20:43:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J References: <014101c32965$5345e0b0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <035d01c32bcc$4f9f5270$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Johnson" To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 7:16 PM Subject: AMP connector for DLV-11J > Does anyone have a couple (2) of the AMP 10 pin connectors (with unused pins) > used with the DLV-11J 4 port serial I/O boards or know where I could purchase > them? > > What I actually need is a RS232 cable DB25 to AMP 10 ?, but I am willing to > make the DB25 part myself, something I've done zillions of times. > > I am currently working on bringing up my "new" PDP-11/23 that I recently > picked up. This chassis, once verified OK, will be used as a test bed to check > out the bunch of QBUS boards I have, including CPU's, memory, and some I/O, > mostly serial. Eventually I hope to bring up a 11/53 like the one Jonathan > Engdhal built. > > Thanks in advance! > Stuart Johnson Thanks everyone, for the input! Since I posted this I have had email from someone that has some of these cables to sell and I will simplify my problem by purchasing a couple from him. If I DO make any cables, I think I'll try the IDC connectors. Stuart Johnson From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jun 6 02:15:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Talking to DEC disks controllers with non-DEC hardware(was" (Jun 6, 0:40) References: Message-ID: <10306060809.ZM4929@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 6, 0:40, Tony Duell wrote: > > Last time I saw a DX11, it was a whole rack, not just one card. I > > Yes. 8 rows of flip-chip cards (almost all slots used) + a PSU, a lights > panel, and a power interlock IIRC. > > > think I know where to find something to connect it to, though :-) > > Which, presumably, is even bigger than my 11/45 system :-) A bit :-) The pile of cables is probably bigger than your 11/45. It's an IBM belonging to Jim Austin, who lives not far from me: http://www.austinfs.fsnet.co.uk/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jun 6 03:48:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: ICAPS (Re: Collectors worldwide, UNITE!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82fe39fe4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > Hmm. This actually does sound good. It *could* help us prevent > silly things like knowledge from getting lost, in a somewhat more > organized form... How about a classiccmp "wiki"? Basically, one person creates a page containing some info, then others can add to it, modify it, fix any errors, etc. Anyone got a bit of spare CGI-enabled webspace? Alternatively, we could do it over email. For example, send a message with the text "GET WIKIINDEX" to a certain email address and you get sent a copy of the Wiki's index. Send the text "SEND /JupiterAce" and you get sent a copy of the Wiki entry for "JupiterAce". Then there's always Telnet and SSH... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 6 04:06:00 2003 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: QBUS board ID time In-Reply-To: <10305292114.ZM28722@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Greg Elkin" "Re: QBUS board ID time" (May 29, 17:28) Message-ID: <3EE0666A.29794.4C9E61@localhost> on Thu, 29 May 2003 21:14:01 Peter Turnbull wrote : >On May 29, 17:28, Greg Elkin wrote: >> The chap at Baydel (Leatherhead, UK) said he'd been there for years >> (25 or more) and had seen them through making whole PDP11 systems >>(apart from DEC CPUs) to their current range of NAS & SCSI RAID etc >> >That was probably David Vallance. He was really helpful. That's the chap. Yes, very helpfull. greg From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jun 6 04:32:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: id this 88100/88200 CPU card? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030605165441.0196f060@mail.ubanproductions.com>; from uban@ubanproductions.com on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 23:56:14 CEST References: <3.0.6.16.20030605121607.3cdfbd14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030605121607.3cdfbd14@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20030605203103.W257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <5.2.0.9.0.20030605165441.0196f060@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20030606100826.A257568@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.05 23:56 Tom Uban wrote: > Sorry, I missed the first message on this subject. Look at the archive? > Was there more info or a pic to see? Board with Motorola XC81100RC25G, four XC88200RC25E ICs, a 24 pin PAL, three high density connectors and ~4 1/2" x 8 1/2" in size. No p0rn pix. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 6 04:49:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards Message-ID: <20030606094401.85572.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> > It's the only card of the bunch besides the ROM programmer (which I also > have) that I recognize. yep - someone's found the user manual for me (complete with details on how to hack the card to work with 27128 chips - ahhh, the good old days of computing!) luckily everything the card needs is in ROM so I'm not missing any software for it. Hope it still works, I could certainly make use of it! > This is truly one cool lot of Apple cards. I have a lot more too, but most of them are more common - disk interfaces, SSC cards, Epson printer interfaces etc. There's four different audio cards too I think, three of which are homebrewed and one which has four 40-pin ICs on it; I'm yet to identify that last one. Unfortunately no SCSI or network controllers (so far anyway!) - that would have been nice :-) I'm still to see what I've left in the machines themselves but they're way too buried to get at presently. I know both my ProFile interface boards are in the Apple /// but other than that I don't know. > really like to know what the IC Tester does (though I think it's pretty > obvious ;) Well I did a search via deja/google and someone managed to get hold of the software a couple of years back, so it might be floating around somewhere. That IC tester and the programmer could probably do useful work for me; I just need to hook one of the Apple systems up to the PC somehow so it can communicate with the outside world. Probably be via serial, but if I had a SCSI card in the Apple in theory it could share a SCSI bus with the PC would would be interesting :) (I've only ever seen that done between two identical modern SGI boxes - not between hardware with a 20 year time difference!) cheers Jules From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 6 04:57:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: <01b701c32ac9$172994e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200306031838.h53Icpa6018053@spies.com> <3EDD095F.5020100@srv.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030605143220.00a360e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 02:42 PM 6/4/03 -0400, John Allain wrote: > > Just thinking strange ideas. Wish I had some fiche to try. > >For non-paper applications I heartily reccomend a digital >camera. I often "scan" things at effective 300 and 600 dpi Two essentials for this to work are, decent lights, and a tripod of some kind. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 6 04:58:32 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Web is just a fancy 3270 session In-Reply-To: <200306040610.28011.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030605154759.00a37920@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I was just typing a message into a web forum, hit the post reply button, and while I am waiting I realize, SHEESH, this is just an graphical upgrade of the 3270 CICS I was running 20 years ago. Except not as fast. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 6 04:59:58 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? In-Reply-To: References: <3EDDF3B1.A300F92C@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030605142627.03297a30@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 07:05 PM 6/4/03 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > I don't want to rain on your parade, but just a suggestion - a motherboard > > with an ISA slot is now almost impossible to find, new of course. And > > a serial port is a bit slow. > >THis is a major problem, I am told. There are lots of custom ISA cards >(varios special-purpose interfaces, measurement systems, etc) that never >had PCI equivalents. There's nothing to plug them into when the old >ISA-capable motherboards die. And of course (as I've moaned about several >times), service docs and spares for PC motherboards are somewhat rarer >than PERQ T4s... > >-tony A quick look on www.pricegrabber.com turned up 38 current motherboards with isa slots. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 6 07:42:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: ICAPS (Re: Collectors worldwide, UNITE!) In-Reply-To: <82fe39fe4b.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > How about a classiccmp "wiki"? > Basically, one person creates a page containing some info, then others can > add to it, modify it, fix any errors, etc. > Anyone got a bit of spare CGI-enabled webspace? > Alternatively, we could do it over email. For example, send a message with > the text "GET WIKIINDEX" to a certain email address and you get sent a copy > of the Wiki's index. Send the text "SEND /JupiterAce" and you get sent a > copy of the Wiki entry for "JupiterAce". Then there's always Telnet and > SSH... I think a wiki is a perfect match for this list. For all the knowledge that gets posted here, it would be great if we could post it into a wiki, rather than having to search the archives through Google. It would also cut down on the need to answer all the newbie questions, though the redundant replies really don't hurt. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 6 07:45:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <20030606094401.85572.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Jules Richardson wrote: > > It's the only card of the bunch besides the ROM programmer (which I also > > have) that I recognize. > > yep - someone's found the user manual for me (complete with details on how to > hack the card to work with 27128 chips - ahhh, the good old days of computing!) > > luckily everything the card needs is in ROM so I'm not missing any software for > it. Hope it still works, I could certainly make use of it! Hey cool. Are these in electronic form? I'd like a copy. > I have a lot more too, but most of them are more common - disk interfaces, SSC > cards, Epson printer interfaces etc. There's four different audio cards too I > think, three of which are homebrewed and one which has four 40-pin ICs on it; > I'm yet to identify that last one. I've got hundreds myself. > Unfortunately no SCSI or network controllers (so far anyway!) - that would have > been nice :-) I've got a couple SCSI cards and a few AppleTalk cards. I'm trying to find a high-speed SCSI interface but those are uncommon. > That IC tester and the programmer could probably do useful work for me; I just > need to hook one of the Apple systems up to the PC somehow so it can > communicate with the outside world. Probably be via serial, but if I had a SCSI > card in the Apple in theory it could share a SCSI bus with the PC would would > be interesting :) (I've only ever seen that done between two identical modern > SGI boxes - not between hardware with a 20 year time difference!) I don't see why it wouldn't work though. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 6 08:35:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today In-Reply-To: <000701c32bc4$02df2a30$3a0ddd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030606133001.76729.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Well the Commodore CD-1000 CDTV box came today and now the search starts > for the mouse, 3.5 FD, remote control, keyboard, and monitor for it. Those are fun. I used to have one until it was stolen in a burglary. If you can't find a CDTV IR keyboard, it's possible to whip up a keyboard converter to use a wired Amiga keyboard. If you are having problems finding a black external 3.5" FD, an ordinary beige Amiga A1010 works great. I do not know if there was ever a black monitor, but a regular Commodore 1080 or 2002 or any monitor that will sync to 15KHz (NEC 3d) will work, as will a TV set. The caddy is black, but is mechanically identical to the common caddies used in CD-ROM drives of the vintage. I "explored" mine with a DNet cable and the netkeys-handler. Another Amiga to the side provided the mouse and keyboard inputs over the "network". > It's based on the Amiga with a 68000 @ 7.14Mhz chip. Anyone having extra > parts for this computer that they do not need contact me off list. Nope... no leftover parts, but a few sad memories. Did you get the startup disc with it? There's some interesting stuff in the nooks and crannies, including a pair of files, one still pic and a sound file with the same name... you'll know them when you find them (don't worry... they aren't pr0n or anything). -ethan From acme at ao.net Fri Jun 6 08:38:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: ZX81 kits (was Re: Jupiter Ace) Message-ID: <200306061331.h56DV2ZX024299@eola.ao.net> From: Al Hartman Subject: Jupiter Ace Date: 06/02/2003 1:13 PM > Stewart also still has ZX-81 kits for anyone who wants > to build one themselves. I think he sells them for > about $50.00US. May I suggest that you check Zebra's web site? Mr. Newfeld has these kits priced at *$99.95* A few years back he was listing them at $29.95. I bought a couple, and so did some friends. He immediately raised the price to $39.95, then $49.95, and finally the ridiculous price of $99.95. He's been sitting on these damn kits since the early eighties, and the only explanation for the price increase is plain and simple greed. Glen Goodwin Orlando, FL USA 0/0 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 6 08:43:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 books, IPC Peripherals CD changer.... In-Reply-To: <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20030606133818.49675.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > > What does the unit look like? My NEC changers have a row of 7 buttons > > across the front for loading each of the 7 discs, > > -Toth I have one of these... big external case... no magazine. One of these days, I'm going to stick it on my Sun server as an extra 6GB of archival storage access. > Yeah, I have an NEC (?) internal IDE 4 disc changer. Pretty neat... > Well, the whole thing itself is about 4"Hx7"Wx13"D... 7" wide and internal? I also have an interal NEC 4-disc changer (a "4x4") that has seen little use... it's not that fast anymore, and Windows wants to query each disc at startup. :-P -ethan From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jun 6 09:20:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today References: <20030606133001.76729.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010001c32c36$057844d0$a309dd40@oemcomputer> The web site that I visited shows a picture of the black monitor and at another site I found the model number for it. No I didn't get the start-up disk (the seller kept it?) but I did get 1 black cd caddy with it. I also got a copy of the hook-up instructions and volume one Catalog of Titles which list both software and hardware for the unit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > --- Keys wrote: > > Well the Commodore CD-1000 CDTV box came today and now the search starts > > for the mouse, 3.5 FD, remote control, keyboard, and monitor for it. > > Those are fun. I used to have one until it was stolen in a burglary. > > If you can't find a CDTV IR keyboard, it's possible to whip up a > keyboard converter to use a wired Amiga keyboard. > > If you are having problems finding a black external 3.5" FD, an > ordinary beige Amiga A1010 works great. > > I do not know if there was ever a black monitor, but a regular Commodore > 1080 or 2002 or any monitor that will sync to 15KHz (NEC 3d) will work, > as will a TV set. > > The caddy is black, but is mechanically identical to the common caddies > used in CD-ROM drives of the vintage. > > I "explored" mine with a DNet cable and the netkeys-handler. Another > Amiga to the side provided the mouse and keyboard inputs over the > "network". > > > It's based on the Amiga with a 68000 @ 7.14Mhz chip. Anyone having extra > > parts for this computer that they do not need contact me off list. > > Nope... no leftover parts, but a few sad memories. > > Did you get the startup disc with it? There's some interesting stuff > in the nooks and crannies, including a pair of files, one still pic > and a sound file with the same name... you'll know them when you find > them (don't worry... they aren't pr0n or anything). > > -ethan From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Jun 6 10:31:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Cool Stuff Message-ID: <3EE0B1AC.5090900@charter.net> Just barely off topic, I got a load of cool stuff yesterday. I bought an original Canon 17" monitor, an object.station 41 bezel new in wrapper, a prototype intel Pentium Overdrive preocessor that is listed on intel's site as never released, a replacement ISA/VESA bus riser card for the object.station, and a mouse/keyboard new in wrapper for the object.station. The monitor completes one of my object.stations while the other is now complete except for the proper Canon monitor. The Canon PS2 keyboards with the unix key layout and the green NeXT keys are very hard to find as are the monitors. It's been a four year quest to located all of this stuff. From wonko at 4amlunch.net Fri Jun 6 12:14:01 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: simh help? In-Reply-To: <20030529194454.ED26766C4@tower.conman.org>; from spc@conman.org on Thu, May 29, 2003 at 03:44:52PM -0400 References: <3ED62B9C.8050807@srv.net> <20030529194454.ED26766C4@tower.conman.org> Message-ID: <20030606125231.B14580@zill.net> On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 03:44:52PM -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > Also try: > > gcc -Wall -ansi -pedantic > > Be prepared for *lots* of warnings. > > -spc (I mean, lots) i use MIPSpro and DEC C all the time. i'm *used* to lots of warnings. :) -brian -- "You know, evil comes in many forms, be it a man-eating cow or Joseph Stalin. But you can't let the package hide the pudding. Evil is just plain bad! You don't cotton to it! You gotta smack it on the nose with the rolled up newspaper of goodness! Bad dog! Bad dog!" -- The Tick From sgust at ithh.infoserv.de Fri Jun 6 12:17:01 2003 From: sgust at ithh.infoserv.de (Soeren Gust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 2000 and VXT software, 4 plane color supported? In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 04:56:18PM +0200 References: <20030530190258.A16919@ithh.infoserv.de> Message-ID: <20030606191050.A19564@ithh.infoserv.de> On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 04:56:18PM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Fri, 30 May 2003, Soeren Gust wrote: > > The 2000 is tricky, in that its ROM implementation of > the MOP loader protocol is very picky about buffer > sizes during transfers, and since it has very space > to play with, transfers can fail, especially with > fast senders. If I put some load (cat /dev/urandom | gzip -9 >/dev/null) onto the sender machine even the big VXT.SYS image gets loaded successfully every time so far. >> If I put my VS40X 4 plane color option board into the >> machine it seems to crash when it has finished loading. > Are you sure the board is OK? I don't have a 4-plane in > my machine, but know for sure it should work. I am not completely sure, but the console works and the board does not show any errors in the TEST 0. The machine went through several hands until it reached me, but the story says that it was running as X terminal in its first life. It could be thrown out because of a defect. >> supported by the VXT software? Or is it a firmware issue? My board has >> version 1.4, are there newer versions available? Or even older version? > I believe mine is 1.7 or so, so this could be an issue.. if the ROM > does not initialize the card right, you might get into trouble. Also, > you need at least 8 or 12MB of RAM in the machine, as the entire MOP > image gets loaded (and then expanded) in memory. It could well be > that your system crashes on memory limits while trying to decompress > the image and/or activating the color drivers. Could you perhaps dump the ROM and send it to me? I do have 14MB RAM, so thats not the problem. > If you need a reliable (even under Linux :) MOP server, let me know. Yes I am interested, can I download that somewhere? Soeren From sgust at ithh.infoserv.de Fri Jun 6 12:19:00 2003 From: sgust at ithh.infoserv.de (Soeren Gust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 2000 and VXT software, 4 plane color supported? In-Reply-To: <20030601101226.GA1481@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>; from jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de on Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 03:12:26AM -0700 References: <20030530190258.A16919@ithh.infoserv.de> <20030601101226.GA1481@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030606191131.B19564@ithh.infoserv.de> On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 03:12:26AM -0700, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.05.30 10:02 Soeren Gust wrote: > > >Is the color board supported by the VXT software? > It shoud, as it is supportd in the VXT1300. (VXT1300 == VAXstation 3100 > without SCSI adapter) Maybe you have not enough RAM for color? I do have 14MB RAM, that should be enough. > IIRC I have version 2.somthing with the SCSI boot patches installed... > But I doubt that the firmware is the problem. I have to look for the > VXT software too. I have at least two different versions. The CPU firmware is 2.3 on my machine, 1.4 is the firmware version of the 4 plane board according to TEST 50. Soeren From big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com Fri Jun 6 12:29:00 2003 From: big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com (Todd Nathan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: ZX81 Kits, socialist pinko left wingers and the right. Message-ID: <20030606172406.37387.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com> What cracks me up is that someone has the nuts to accuse another in a free market system of greed. What are you, some kind of socialist that another owes you? Somebody purchases at their expense (where is your money bub?), store at their expense (garage or otherwise costs money), market at their expense (if possible, were do you market such stuff these days, eBay seems only viable option), and still get them in the hands of those folks that enjoy and want to buy one. 20 years ago your labor was a lot less than it costs today, I speculate somewhere in the range of 20-30% of what it is today. That makes your labor costs today about 300-400% more today than they were then. I don't see anyone accusing you of being a greedy guy cause you get paid 200-300% more than you did in the early 80s, or maybe you don't work and suck of the nipple of the govern-mint. Just some thoughts. Hope you have a nice day! From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 6 13:58:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today In-Reply-To: <010001c32c36$057844d0$a309dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030606185313.97201.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > No I didn't get the start-up disk (the seller kept it?) It's not critical. Most people never did much with it after they unpacked the box. One of the fun things that the CDTV (and CD32) will do is play CD+G disks. There used to be a FAQ with a list of pop music in that format, but I can't seem to find it now. I have several titles by Fleetwood Mac and Little Feat that display graphics while they play. On all of the ones I have, you can read "CD+G" in tiny letters around the inner surface of the disc. These days, the only people releasing CD+G media are Karaoke companies. There was reputed to be one CD+MIDI disk (another format that the CDTV and CD32 will play) - George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" supposedly put out by Warner New Media. I'd love to get a copy of it just to fiddle around, but I've never been able to located it in Warner's catalog. It is supposed to have the same piece in three renditions - CDDA only, CDDA+MIDI and MIDI only. You would have to attach a MIDI "voice" to hear the MIDI tracks. -ethan From KevenM at exegesys.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:00 2003 From: KevenM at exegesys.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards Message-ID: >okay i don't remember the exact name of it the card with the button, but it >was used as a hacking card, the button when pressed issued a NMI, so and goes >into a program on the ROM, and allows you to debug any program running at the >time, and can also save memory contents, it was used for hacking games and >removing copy protection from programs. And I was going to be nice and just declare that I remember it as a debugging tool; such that the push of a button got you to a debugging status. ___________________________________________________________________ Keven Miller mailto:kevenm@exegesys.com http://www.exegesys.com From sartore at elbatech.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:08 2003 From: sartore at elbatech.com (Marco Sartore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: DSP starter kit for sale Message-ID: <004201c32b76$4e5a9380$46142bc1@pste> Hello, I wish to notice that my Company inserted a TI starter kit on eBay, with number 2734510160. (you may try the direct link http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2734510160) Best regards, Marco Sartore Marco Sartore ElbaTech srl Via Roma 1 57030 Marciana (LI) Tel e fax 0565-901002 http://www.elbatech.com From LewGa4 at aol.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:14 2003 From: LewGa4 at aol.com (LewGa4@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: weekend additions Message-ID: <14d.1ff4178c.2c10e3a3@aol.com> hello is any body still there i have a few questions before i sell a canon cat v777 From grunsjah at talk21.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:20 2003 From: grunsjah at talk21.com (John Grunstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: zenith minisport hd problems Message-ID: <000601c32c2f$476089e0$23d28351@x6j7c2> Have minisport 2mb, external fdd (750kb only) and 10+, 2.5" floppy discs (mostly still sealed) also manuals somewhere. It all works but the battery life is very limited. Could mail it to you in return for postage. John Grunstein in U.K. From vance at neurotica.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:25 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Optimem 600 worm drives In-Reply-To: <3EDF46BB.53AB6F20@comcast.net> Message-ID: No. He's responding to a message from three years ago. PEace... Sridhar On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Okay, I know I shouldn't acknowledge this post, but I'm just too > curious about it... > What the heck is this all about, and where did it come from? DId rjk > send this to the wrong list maybe? > > rjk wrote: > > > > the information and details provided by richard erlacher are completely false and > > unfounded, this person has never made a purchase from me, nor do I know of > > any dealings with him. His objective in writing this about his dealing with me > > is > > obviously to just tarnish my reputation for some unknown reason > > > > surely a dealer of making a living selling computer items would provide details of > > what > > they are selling, pricing is always an issue with any sale, there's always someone > > somewhere selling it cheaper, so so they think. > > > > don't beleive everything you read, especially from richard erlacher > > > > there are at least 2 sides to very subjective commentary > > > > rj > > > > -- > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From vance at neurotica.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:31 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: <10306052222.ZM4420@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: And what do you do if you want to use a QQQQ-only processor in a QQCD backplane? Put it in the QQQQ-end? Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Peter Turnbull wrote: > Yes, a normal BA11-N is Q-CD. So is a BA11-S. > > If you can read the H92xx number off the backplane (it's often visible > without too much effort, for example it's on the top of a BA11-M/N/S > backplane) you can look that up to see if it's straight (Q-CD), > serpentine (Q-Q) or mixed. > > The following is not exhaustive, but includes the common ones: > > PDP-11/03 BA11-M H9270 18-bit 4 x Q-Q > PDP-11/23 BA11-N H9273 18-bit 9 x Q-CD > H9275 22-bit 9 x Q-Q > PDP-11/23+ BA11-S H9276 22-bit 9 x Q-CD > microPDP-11 BA23 H9278 22-bit 3 x Q-CD, 5 x Q-Q > H9281 18-bit various sizes, only two slots > (AB) > microPDP-11 BA123 54-17507 > or 70-22019 22-bit 4 x Q-CD, 8 x Q-Q, 1 x non-bus > DDV11 18-bit 9 x Q-Q, slots EF are separate > > Q-Q backplanes are usually referred to as serpentine (or sometimes as > zig-zag), Q-CD as straight. Serpentine slot order goes like this: > > slot 1 ----> slot 2 > | > V > slot 4 <---- slot 3 > | > V > slot 5 ----> slot 6 > > etc > > Some of the backplanes have optional jumpers to enable/disable LTC > interrupt, or for termination. Many carry the SRUN_L signal only on > row 1. Beware of such differences when changing backplanes or linking > two together. The DDV11 is unusual in being hex-height instead of > quad-height; the extra slots are nor bussed, except for +5,V, 0V, and > -12V, but may carry odd voltages, depending on which OEM or > experimenter last used it! > > There's a rumour that the first 3/4 slots in a BA23/123 are special and > you can't use them for anything except memory or processor; that's > rubbish, they're normal Q22-CD slots and you can put anything that's > Q-CD compatible in them, so long as it's after the processor. What > *is* special is the range of PMI memory boards; if you put them in > *front* of a KDJ11-B they use the CD interconnect for the Private > Memory Interface > but if you put them *after* the CPU they use the Q-Bus like all other > memory boards. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From jcinet at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jun 6 14:07:37 2003 From: jcinet at prodigy.net.mx (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Julio_C=E9sar__Hern=E1ndez_Flores?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: DRIVER Message-ID: <000801c32bc8$4beea350$0100a8c0@servjcinet> SORRY, DRIVER FOR Citizen Type II printer model iDP-560-RSL COULD YOU SEND THE CONTROLLER, IF IT IS THAT YOU HAVE IT? PODRIAS MANDAR EL CONTROLADOR, SI ES QUE LO TIENES? PLEAS. From Paul.HILLS at uk.landisgyr.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:42 2003 From: Paul.HILLS at uk.landisgyr.com (Hills, Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 Message-ID: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD3901C089EC@ohm1003a.uk.landisgyr.com> Of course there is no "standard" 9-pin serial connector, except what has become standard just by virtue of mass usage on the PC. The original IBM PC had standard 25 pin connectors of course. Even that serial port was not a standard RS232, since the RS232 standard also has a second serial link on pins 14 and 16, along with all the control signals for the secondary link, which the PC didn't have (as far as I'm aware). I've never seen an RS232 comms link fully populated and used to the standard though! It is unlikely that any other equipment would conform to the PC world's 9-pin 'standard' unless it is quite new. Most recent test equipment tends to use the 25 pin connector if it has a serial port at all. The standard for test equipment (and probably UPSs as well) is GPIB (IEEE-488) which is parallel. paul -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] Sent: 05 June 2003 21:22 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > It might be that the DE-9's don't have a standard PC serial pinout. At > work, we have a UPS that uses a DE-9 for programming, but the pinout on > the cable (a 940-0024C; Googling produces a number of hits) is > > Female Male > 1-4 > 2------------2 > 3------------1 > 5------------6 > 6 NC > 7-8 > 9 NC Let me guess...APC? :) Their ports are very fun, since if you plug in a standard serial cable, and open the port, it can turn off the UPS. The UPS' port supports both a dump-mode DTR/RTS/etc signaling as well as a smart-mode. The cable above is their "smart" cable. The 1-4 and 7-8 connections are also not needed if you are not using 3rd party software such as NUT, as they are just loop back connections. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jun 6 14:30:03 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: <10306052237.ZM4537@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <000201c32ba3$24264fa0$5b01a8c0@athlon> <10306052237.ZM4537@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Jun 5, 16:19, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Since we are on the subject of VAXen... > > > > What would be the most likely problem with a BA123 MicroVAX II that > > powers up, but sometimes totally locks up during the diagnostics? (I'm > > not even sure it can boot, as some of the RD53s sound a little sick.) > > I've pretty much eliminated the boards as the cause, and the only > > things left are the backplane and power supply. It does have those > > older power supply to backplane wiring harness cables, which I guess I > > need to replace before I put many boards in the card cage. > > Could be voltage drop between PSU and backplane, resulting in low > voltage on the cards. Part of the problem with the harness (which was > discussed here some months ago, in a different context) is that parts go > high-resistance. Check the voltage (especially the +5V) on one of the > cards. I checked the voltages on the drive harnesses, and +5VDC and +12VDC seemed to be within the normal variance. I'll see if I can't check +5VDC on some of the boards too. I guess if that checks out ok, I'm to where I started, thinking that there may be noise on +5VDC and/or +12VDC. Has anyone else had similar problems with the BA123 power supply? -Toth From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Jun 6 15:52:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: HP front-panel keys Message-ID: <3EE0FEB9.6090704@gifford.co.uk> Quick question for those people with HP 1000 machines and the like... what are the front-panel keys like? Only I have a few discarded HP keys here that are all alike: Corbin Cabinet Lock CAT99 Corbin 4T1427 All the keys are brass. Are they for an HP front-panel lock of some sort? If so, which? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 6 16:20:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards Message-ID: <20030606211507.25624.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> >> yep - someone's found the user manual for me (complete with details on >> how to hack the card to work with 27128 chips - ahhh, the good old days >> of computing!) > > Hey cool. Are these in electronic form? I'd like a copy. yep, see: http://home.iprimus.com.au/figjams/apple2/AP-64e.pdf Initial tests on the card seem to show it's working anyway. I need to dig out the Apple manuals themselves to see how to use the monitor, in order to look at data I've read from EPROM chips plugged into the card (just to verify that it's reading OK) >> need to hook one of the Apple systems up to the PC somehow so it can >> communicate with the outside world. Probably be via serial, but if I >> had a SCSI card in the Apple in theory it could share a SCSI bus with >> the PC would would be interesting :) (I've only ever seen that done >> between two identical modern SGI boxes - not between hardware with a >> 20 year time difference!) > > I don't see why it wouldn't work though. I imagine the controller in the Apple needs to appear as a device on the SCSI bus; I believe that rules out some of the available cards at least. Plus the ID of either the Apple or PC controller would have to change from the default obviously - I think this can be done with all the Adaptec PC cards I have, not sure about the various Apple cards that are available. Would be an interesting experiment to try anyway. cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 6 16:32:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: DRIVER In-Reply-To: <000801c32bc8$4beea350$0100a8c0@servjcinet> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Julio C?sar Hern?ndez Flores wrote: > SORRY, DRIVER FOR Citizen Type II printer model iDP-560-RSL > > COULD YOU SEND THE CONTROLLER, IF IT IS THAT YOU HAVE IT? Hola Julio. Is this a dot matrix printer? If so, there should be a generic dot matrix printer driver in the Windows driver database. Assuming you are using Windows 9x or some other version, use the Control Panel to Add a New Printer and select the Generic option for the driver. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jun 6 16:34:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: HP front-panel keys In-Reply-To: <3EE0FEB9.6090704@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030606173054.0f0fbf90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have several HP 1000s and two original keys but I'm not sure what you're asking. But yes the keys in all of the HP 1000s are interchangeable, at least in the six or eight machines that I've tried. I don't have one here but IIRC they are Corbin keys and they are brass with a round head. FWIW I just got some keys made and it was a real hassle. I tried Home Depot, Lowe's and a couple of othe large hardware places and they didn't have any blanks of the same type. I finally went ot a small local hardware store and they found some blanks made by another company (ILCO?) that they could make keys from. The new keys have a trapazoid shaped head like that usually used on house keys and they're nickel plated steel so they look completely different from the original keys. The locks on the HP 1000 simply hold the front panel closed. But the main power switch is located under the cover. If what you have ARE HP 1000 keys I could use them but it's probably not worth the cost to ship them from the UK to Florida. Joe At 09:51 PM 6/6/03 +0100, you wrote: >Quick question for those people with HP 1000 machines and the like... >what are the front-panel keys like? Only I have a few discarded HP >keys here that are all alike: > > Corbin Cabinet Lock CAT99 > Corbin 4T1427 > >All the keys are brass. Are they for an HP front-panel lock of some >sort? If so, which? > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jun 6 17:01:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: HP front-panel keys In-Reply-To: John Honniball's message of "Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:51:05 +0100" References: <3EE0FEB9.6090704@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200306062139.h56LdLG8055651@daemonweed.reanimators.org> John Honniball wrote: > Corbin 4T1427 This would fit several models of classic HP 3000 -- mine has worked in a Series III and also in a Series 58, and I would expect it to work in at least Series II, 44 and 58. But not on Series 37, 64, 68, 70, or Micro 3000s. -Frank McConnell From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Jun 6 17:02:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: HP front-panel keys References: <3.0.6.16.20030606173054.0f0fbf90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EE10EF3.1070107@gifford.co.uk> Joe wrote: > I have several HP 1000s and two original keys but I'm not sure what > you're asking. Basically, I'm asking if these keys are intedd for the HP 1000s. > But yes the keys in all of the HP 1000s are interchangeable, > at least in the six or eight machines that I've tried. I don't have one > here but IIRC they are Corbin keys and they are brass with a round head. That sounds like one of the two types I have. > If what you have ARE HP 1000 keys I could use them but it's probably not > worth the cost to ship them from the UK to Florida. OK, well I'll see how much it'd cost, anyway. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jun 6 17:06:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c32c77$2c48ba40$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I checked the voltages on the drive harnesses, and +5VDC and > +12VDC seemed to be within the normal variance. I'll see if I > can't check +5VDC on some of the boards too. I guess if that > checks out ok, I'm to where I started, thinking that there > may be noise on +5VDC and/or +12VDC. Has anyone else had > similar problems with the BA123 power supply? What does the console output look like when it locks up? -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 6 17:13:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: <008b01c32bca$1f0f4b30$de2c67cb@helpdesk> from "Geoff Roberts" at Jun 6, 3 10:52:36 am Message-ID: > I still have a circa 1980 Sony Beta that's 8" high 14" deep and about 18" long > and it weighs a *lot*, however, it still works. (I saved it from a scrapyard and replaced Betamax is _modern_ :-)... I have a pair of 1972-vintage Philips N1500s still in working condition (and still, AFAIK, with the original heads -- the only things I've had to replace are the belts and one transistor). I have some even older Sony reel-to-reel VTRs, but those have had head replacements (done the hard way, using betamax head tips on the original beam...) I really must sort out my Philips V2000 machines. It is said they give a very good picture, and I must also admit that some of the features, like 'dynamic track following' with the heads mounted on peizo-actuators, appear to the hacker in me :-) Of course I have the service manuals for all of the above, but then I would, right :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 6 17:13:09 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:10 2005 Subject: Systems Enhancement Corporation Power Administrator 800 In-Reply-To: <5B835935122FD411845C0800060DDD3901C089EC@ohm1003a.uk.landisgyr.com> from "Hills, Paul" at Jun 6, 3 08:42:52 am Message-ID: > Of course there is no "standard" 9-pin serial connector, except what has > become standard just by virtue of mass usage on the PC. The original IBM PC Agreed. Around the time of the PC/AT, several other manufacturers used DE9s for the (cut-down) RS232 port. Often, pins 2-8 had the same functions as on the DB25, with pins 1 and 9 of the DE9 being DTR and RI in some order. The HP110 ('Portable') and Portable+ do this -- here's the wirelist of the serial cable I made up for my machines .. HP110 RS232 DTE DE9-P DB25-P Shield-------------o 1 Prot Gnd 1 o---------Br----------o 20 DTR 2 o---------R-----------o 2 TxD 3 o---------O-----------o 3 RxD 4 o---------Y-----------o 4 RTS 5 o---------Gn----------o 5 CTS 6 o---------Bu----------o 6 DSR 7 o---------Pu----------o 7 Sig Gnd 8 o---------Gy----------o 8 CD 9 o---------Bk----------o 22 RI > which the PC didn't have (as far as I'm aware). I've never seen an RS232 > comms link fully populated and used to the standard though! Nor have I. And also most manufactures totally abuse the handshake lines -- you're not supposed to use them for flow control, for example. Watch out for manufacturers who attempt to adhere to the standard here -- their devices work with almost nothing else :-). And I'd love to know what the designer of the HP82164 was thinking of -- some of the features of that device are plain _crazy_! -tony From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Jun 6 17:39:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Slightly OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE1181C.8040601@charter.net> Did anyone see this: http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/06/06/sputnik.ebay.reut/index.html vance@neurotica.com wrote: >I don't think any of those bidders actually intend on paying. 8-) > >Peace... Sridhar > >On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > >>Hi >> I couldn't help but pass this on: >> >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611062497&category=40129 >> >>later >>Dwight >> >> > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jun 6 19:29:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <20030606094401.85572.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, [iso-8859-1] Jules Richardson wrote: > communicate with the outside world. Probably be via serial, but if I had a SCSI > card in the Apple in theory it could share a SCSI bus with the PC would would > be interesting :) (I've only ever seen that done between two identical modern > SGI boxes - not between hardware with a 20 year time difference!) I don't think the Apple (][) would be able to keep up its 1MHz clocked bus with the 5MHz-clocked SCSI(-1) bus. Other than that, it should not be too hard to grab a cheap NCR chip, stash it onto a board with some ROM and buffers, and type PR#5 :) If you could buffer the data enough, this should work, because SCSI1 doesnt do sync mode data bursts, hence, the Apple would not get "bombed" with data all the time, just in spurts. Using heavy buffering, things would work. --f From stephenj at mail.ru Fri Jun 6 20:09:00 2003 From: stephenj at mail.ru (stephen johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: sinclair spectrum ULA's=?koi8-r?Q?=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030604080555.03c2ac78@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: i have obtained a fair number of NOS ula's that i believe are for a sinclair spectrum. part is: FERRANTI ULA 6C001E-7 does anybody have any detailed list of the machines these where used in? i will be looking to sell some once i know what they fit into,does anybody need one? From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jun 6 22:26:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: <000301c32c77$2c48ba40$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <000301c32c77$2c48ba40$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I checked the voltages on the drive harnesses, and +5VDC and +12VDC > > seemed to be within the normal variance. I'll see if I can't check > > +5VDC on some of the boards too. I guess if that checks out ok, I'm to > > where I started, thinking that there may be noise on +5VDC and/or > > +12VDC. Has anyone else had similar problems with the BA123 power > > supply? > > What does the console output look like when it locks up? It locks up during the diagnostics, most often during the memory tests. I've managed to get it to go though to the point where it was ready to boot a couple of times. It seems to get worse if I leave the system powered up. I know its not the boards, since I've tried known good sets. -Toth From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Jun 6 22:49:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #633 - 16 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030606170001.28644.52625.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030607034445.72443.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> > May I suggest that you check Zebra's web site? Mr. > Newfeld has these kits priced at *$99.95* > > A few years back he was listing them at $29.95. I > bought a couple, and so > did some friends. He immediately raised the price > to $39.95, then $49.95, and > finally the ridiculous price of $99.95. He's been > sitting on these damn kits > since the early eighties, and the only explanation > for the price increase is > plain and simple greed. > > Glen Goodwin > Orlando, FL USA > 0/0 Could be... Being he is the last source of them. Don't buy one, if you don't want one... They were $50.00 last time I checked. Which was 2 years ago when I did a Trenton Computer Festival with him, and helped him sell them from his booth. Thanks for the update. I didn't know he raised the price. They ship from a warehouse in State College, PA. And I'd guess he has to pay someone to fulfill the orders... He used to ship them from his offices in NYC, but no more. He does consulting now. So, his costs have gone up (as far as storage, and paying someone to pack and ship them...). People who bought the kits at $29.95 got a deal. I paid $100.00 for mine, and it was a good deal. (at the time) Knowing how much money Stewart lost in the Timex Market when Timex quit, and in the Coco Market for products we developed and then couldn't release (for both platforms)... I wouldn't call it greed. He could easily dumpster the remaining kits and make MUCH more money doing other things. I guess you don't know Stewarts history as I do, so you call it "greed". Remember ORCH-80? It was a rip-off of Stewarts MUCH BETTER Music Box. He got stuck with THOUSANDS of Dollars of product that became unsellable, since the Orch-80 was so much cheaper (a less sophisticated design, and the sound wasn't at nice...), that it sold BELOW the Music Boxes cost, AND with one SuperZap to the Music Box Software, could use all the MB songs. Not to mention all the S-100 Product he got stuck with, AND the companion pieces, the Rhythym Box, which now wouldn't sell because he wasn't selling Music Boxes..... I could tell you stories. Stewart isn't quite greedy... But, definitely interested in making a living, as we all are. No? Al From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sat Jun 7 04:01:00 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again Message-ID: I have recently bought colour tape for the 33. The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to happen?' Confused Regards -Tore From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 7 06:00:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Optimem 600 worm drives In-Reply-To: <3EDF46BB.53AB6F20@comcast.net> References: <3EDD979F.9A987198@optonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030606163953.032a1820@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I am also kind of curious, plus I think I have a couple of these optimem 600 drives still new in the box. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 7 06:26:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Cool little modulator In-Reply-To: <3EDF98B3.5040005@gorge.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030607041127.0329a630@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >>>I am thinking about the thing for the IIc+ >Most televisions in the late 70's - early 80's came with RF in only. If >you wanted comp in, you had to buy a "monitor". >Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500. >Jim Davis. I still have my RCA XL100 19" color monitor from that era, and have avoided rf connections ever since (though less now). What I am thinking of is rgb for the IIc+, thats a bit more rare. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jun 7 09:15:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c32cfe$80b9c740$947ba8c0@p933> Mine did exactly the same thing and I haven't fixed it yet, so I am looking forward to hearing from the experts. My amateur opinion is that it's probably supposed to be a fairly hard piece of rubber from the pounding it takes. I was going to find some reinforced tubing or vulcanized rubber (like what tires are made of) if that gives you some idea of the consistency I was shooting for. Good luck! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tore Sinding Bekkedal Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 1:56 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Teletype: Problems again I have recently bought colour tape for the 33. The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to happen?' Confused Regards -Tore From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Sat Jun 7 09:45:01 2003 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: honeywell manuals Message-ID: <19OerL-2AZmzo0@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> Hi.. I got some documents about honewell GCOS6 and other. The computers were used in the 8ths in an powerstation for collecting informations for the management. I don't know what models were used. Untill I own no hardware from honewll I'll scan the documents and put them onto. After scanning they go into the dumpster as I have no place left. http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/honeywell/manuals/ Greetings from Fritz Chwolka > www.alterechner.de < From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 7 09:55:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again In-Reply-To: <000001c32cfe$80b9c740$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20030607145024.27055.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > Mine did exactly the same thing and I haven't fixed it yet, so I am > looking forward to hearing from the experts. > > My amateur opinion is that it's probably supposed to be a fairly hard > piece of rubber from the pounding it takes. Firm but resilient. Too hard and it will damage the type element. > I was going to find some > reinforced tubing or vulcanized rubber (like what tires are made of) if > that gives you some idea of the consistency I was shooting for. I have never tried a substitute, but those sound promising. > On Behalf Of Tore Sinding Bekkedal > I have recently bought colour tape for the 33. > > The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the > paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero > pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice > candy (Läkerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. > Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to > happen?' While it's not what you want, it's common that the rubber hammer pad turns to a candy-like goo. I don't think you want to fabricate a substitute out of something with sugar in it... it will get all over everything and make it sticky. I bought a couple replacement pads from Western Numerical Control a few years ago (http://www.westnc.com/). I can't find TTY repair parts on their site now, but perhaps if you contact them, they will be able to help. -ethan From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sat Jun 7 10:02:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I just gave um an earful (politely). Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 7 10:38:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice > candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. Fixing some hardware with a piece of candy has got to be the coolest thing I have ever heard of ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From martinm at allwest.net Sat Jun 7 10:42:00 2003 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again References: Message-ID: <3EE2062C.4070705@allwest.net> Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > I have recently bought colour tape for the 33. > > The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the > paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero > pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice > candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. > Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to > happen?' > > Confused Regards > > -Tore > I had the same problem. For a temporary solution, see if you can find something like this: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F007%5F013%5F000&product%5Fid=64%2D2346 These are 1/2" dia. self-adhesive rubber feet, intended to be attached to the bottom of equipment to prevent scratching a desk. Martin From oldcomp at cox.net Sat Jun 7 10:44:01 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again - my solution References: Message-ID: <3EE20729.4030108@cox.net> I have two Teletypes that had the same problem. What I did was remove all the gunk from the print head and the hammer with Goof-off and an old toothbrush, and then I took a regular new pencil and cut off the eraser with an Exacto knife. Then I took a drop of super glue, and stuck it in place on the hammer. After trimming a little, ta-da! Mine has been working just fine now for close to two years. I'm sure that this is not as nice as having the correct part, but who has the correct part? Probably a better solution would be to find some soft flexible rubber, but I didn't have any at the time, and the eraser works great so stopped looking! -Bryan Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: >I have recently bought colour tape for the 33. > >The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the >paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero >pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice >candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. >Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to >happen?' > >Confused Regards > >-Tore From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jun 7 11:14:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <60542323-9902-11D7-81E3-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, June 7, 2003, at 11:29 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > >> pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice >> candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't >> last. > > Fixing some hardware with a piece of candy has got to be the coolest > thing > I have ever heard of ;) > Mmmm... Teletype..... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jdickens at ameritech.net Sat Jun 7 11:30:01 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200306072300.31756.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Saturday 07 June 2003 10:56 am, Eric Chomko wrote: > Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later > this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might > have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San > Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. > > I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone > have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must > see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to > the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I > just gave um an earful > (politely). > > Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me > happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) The tech museum, in San Jose is a must see, and your family might even enjoy it slightly, kids always did. There are a few computer salvage shops in the silicon valley, area if you have room in the car, there are a good way to kill a few hours of your time. You could always try and track down transmeta, corp. and see where linus torvalds works, but only if your a linux fan. and in the same genre, you could check out the silicon vallley Lug meeting and see if you get lucky Linus pops in to the meeting. which he has been known to do. Casa De Fruita, off highway 152 near gilroy, CA ... not computer related but cool over grown fruit stand... fun for the whole family And of course you have to drive through Gilroy for some major aroma therapy Of course there are always Fry's computer store, which i miss badly since i moved to the mid-west. And to eat check out Chevy's mexican resturant... the kids love it because they have a machine that makes tortia automaticly... and they will out dough so the kids can play with so they stay quiet while adults enjoy a good meal ("okay it's my favorite resturant") in Southern California, check out Bob's burgers, (anaheim, CA) they have awesome Onion Rings and Fried Zuchini, and Pastrami Sandwitch. that 3 people could share and consider a good lunch, and cheap too.... Just a few thoughts... James From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Sat Jun 7 12:48:00 2003 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: honeywell manuals In-Reply-To: <19OerL-2AZmzo0@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <19Ohiw-27O4pc0@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:39:54 +0200 (MSZ), Fritz Chwolka wrote: >them onto. After scanning they go into the dumpster as I have no place >left. Correction.. the manuals will be given to an interested person here in germany and will find their way to the US. Greetings from Fritz Chwolka > www.alterechner.de < From dgari at msn.com Sat Jun 7 13:39:00 2003 From: dgari at msn.com (David Gari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Web is just a fancy 3270 session Message-ID: (quote) I was just typing a message into a web forum, hit the post reply button, and while I am waiting I realize, SHEESH, this is just an graphical upgrade of the 3270 CICS I was running 20 years ago. Except not as fast. (end quote) There are other differences: No viri. No pop-ups. No spam. No anonymous morons. No evil cookies dropped onto your machine, 3rd party or otherwise. No audio, just peace and (beep) quiet. Oh yeah; no graphics, no mouse, no point-and-click. If the speed bothers you, get a faster connection. I just wonder if improving the user interface to the point where monkeys can use it is an evolutionary step forward or backward.... -David Gari _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From allain at panix.com Sat Jun 7 13:45:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <01ea01c32d24$353bf420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Thanks for your tip about the CHAC. Be sure to look here: >> http://www.computerhistory.org/bldg/ << Says it Juuust Opened! John A. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sat Jun 7 13:54:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <200306072300.31756.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <3EE2338A.B47C1909@verizon.net> jamesd wrote: > > On Saturday 07 June 2003 10:56 am, Eric Chomko wrote: > > Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later > > this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might > > have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San > > Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. > > > > I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone > > have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must > > see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to > > the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I > > just gave um an earful > > (politely). > > > > Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me > > happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) > The tech museum, in San Jose is a must see, and your family might even enjoy > it slightly, kids always did. The Tech Museum sounds like a good idea. Thanks. > > There are a few computer salvage shops in the silicon valley, area if you have > room in the car, there are a good way to kill a few hours of your time. > > You could always try and track down transmeta, corp. and see where linus > torvalds works, but only if your a linux fan. and in the same genre, you > could check out the silicon vallley Lug meeting and see if you get lucky > Linus pops in to the meeting. which he has been known to do. I like Linux, but don't think I want to track down Linus Torvalds. :) > > Casa De Fruita, off highway 152 near gilroy, CA ... not computer related but > cool over grown fruit stand... fun for the whole family > > And of course you have to drive through Gilroy for some major aroma therapy Oh yes, Garlic World in Gilroy is a must stop for us. We have been several times and plan to stop this time as well. > > Of course there are always Fry's computer store, which i miss badly since i > moved to the mid-west. Where is Fry's computer store? > > And to eat check out Chevy's mexican resturant... the kids love it because > they have a machine that makes tortia automaticly... and they will out dough We have a Chevy's right here in Greenbelt, Maryland, complete with tortilla machine in full view. But at some point I probably will be up for a shot of tequila. > so the kids can play with so they stay quiet while adults enjoy a good meal > ("okay it's my favorite resturant") Nice plug. If you ever come to the DC area, the Chevys in Greenbelt, MD near Goddard Space Flight Center (where I work) is a nice one. > > in Southern California, check out Bob's burgers, (anaheim, CA) they have > awesome Onion Rings and Fried Zuchini, and Pastrami Sandwitch. that 3 people > could share and consider a good lunch, and cheap too.... I'm going to JPL at least one day while in the LA area, and Pasadena is close to Anaheim, so I might make it to Bob's for lunch. > > Just a few thoughts... James, thanks for the suggestions. It is exactly what I wanted when I asked on this list. Eric > > James From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sat Jun 7 14:01:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <01ea01c32d24$353bf420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3EE23534.B3047650@verizon.net> WOW!! The place looks fancier than any new government building I've seen as of late! Thanks for digging deeper into CHAC. I think I'll make that a stop as well. Heck, now all the sudden my idle itinerary is full! John Allain wrote: > > Thanks for your tip about the CHAC. > > Be sure to look here: > >> http://www.computerhistory.org/bldg/ << > Says it Juuust Opened! > > John A. From tosteve at yahoo.com Sat Jun 7 15:11:00 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20030607200625.37532.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> Weird Stuff in Sunnyvale is an interesting stop. http://www.weirdstuff.com/sunnyvale/html/sunnyvale.htm --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at > NASA Ames. Anyone > have their schedule for the classic computer museum? > Any other "must > see" places along the way? From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jun 7 15:49:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE23534.B3047650@verizon.net> References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <01ea01c32d24$353bf420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3EE23534.B3047650@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > WOW!! The place looks fancier than any new government building I've > seen as of late! Well, it's not a new government building. That's the old Silicon Graphics HQ building. SGI sold it off to the CHM as part of their attempts to stay afloat. I hear the CHM folks got a great price for it (dumpster diving on a grander scale). -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 7 17:24:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Qbus Backplanes In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jun 6, 3 10:30:40 pm Message-ID: > It locks up during the diagnostics, most often during the memory tests. > I've managed to get it to go though to the point where it was ready to > boot a couple of times. It seems to get worse if I leave the system > powered up. I know its not the boards, since I've tried known good sets. As others have suggested, check the power lines _at the backplane or boards_. This really does sound like a power problem, but it might be something like a bad connection in the power harness which causes the voltage at the backplane to be too low, while the PSU output (and the voltage at the drives) is fine. Also, if you have a 'scope (and if not, why not?), check for ripple on the power lines. Have you checked the power fail lines (ACLO and DCLO)? Strange things happen when they get asserted at random... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 7 17:26:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again In-Reply-To: from "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" at Jun 7, 3 10:56:09 am Message-ID: > I have recently bought colour tape for the 33. > > The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the > paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero THis is a common problem. It should be a piece of fairly hard rubber. > pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice > candy (L=E4kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. No, please don't, not unless you like cleaning the type cylinder and the rest of the carriage mecahnism. > Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to > happen?' Well, I can't believe it was _designed_ to decay like that, but they all do. My first gusss as to a suitable replacement would be a self-adhesive cabinet foot, available from electronics component shops. It's about the right hardness, and it will stick in place, at least well enough for testing. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 7 17:26:39 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again - my solution In-Reply-To: <3EE20729.4030108@cox.net> from "Bryan Blackburn" at Jun 7, 3 08:39:21 am Message-ID: > working just fine now for close to two years. I'm sure that this is not=20 > as nice as having the correct part, but who has the correct part?=20 Actually, I do have some of the original parts, in a box of Model 33 spares (which also contains things like answerback drums, gears, a motor, etc). Alas, as you might have guessed, the spares are decaying too :-(. Fortunately the metal parts, etc that I have are still good. -tony From cube1 at charter.net Sat Jun 7 17:34:01 2003 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Apollo Domain, Aegis, etc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030607172723.02062520@cirithi> I'd be interested. I have a DN 3500, and also have tapes (in fact, a while back I offered to *give* away my duplicates, but had no takers. Jay Jaeger At 08:52 PM 4/6/2003 -0500, Tothwolf wrote: >I just acquired what seems to be a fairly complete set of tapes for an >Apollo system running Domain/OS. I was planning to make images of the >tapes, and wondered if anyone might be looking for any of this software? > >Here is a condensed list of the tapes: > AEGIS 9.6.1, tapes 1 and 2 > AEGIS 9.7, tapes 1 and 2 > TCP/IP 3.0 > DOMAIN/IX 9.5 > NFS 1.0 > NFS 2.0 > DPCC 3.1 > CC 4.8 > CC 4.89 > CC 6.6 M/6.5 MPX > FTN 9.38 > FTN 9.66 > FTN 10.6 M/10.5 MPX > Interleaf 4.0.66, tapes 1 and 2 > >Some of the (DC600?) tapes have bad drive belts, but that should be pretty >simple to correct. > >-Toth --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From cube1 at charter.net Sat Jun 7 17:34:37 2003 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Apollo Manuals and Tapes Available In-Reply-To: <002201cdfe66$0ba2a460$6401a8c0@ARTS> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030607172941.03f53308@cirithi> I have some duplicate Apollo manuals that I'd like to unload. My preference would be for someone to pick them up in Madison WI -- shipping would get expensive. I have 3 boxes: Box DA1 - A pretty much complete Domain/OS "White wall" for SR 10 These are almost all Apollo branded Box DA2 - A mixed bag of Apollo and HP Branded manuals for SR 10. Not as complete, but the most common manuals are mostly there. Box DA3 - A really mixed bag of Apollo and HP manuals First come first serve. Also, I still have a bunch of tapes for Domain/OS SR10.2, SR10.3 and SR10.4 --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jun 7 17:47:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c32d46$07cc0e40$947ba8c0@p933> The CHM just opened this past Monday and now conducts tours of "visible storage" on Wednesday afternoons and every other Saturday (First and Third, I think). I've got some pictures from the grand opening up on Vintage-computer at http://www.vintage-computer.com/chmopenhouse.shtml. Fry's is to be avoided as is any organization that makes it's living effectively stealing from the general public. :) The Weird Stuff Warehouse is always fun, especially the "as-is" area out back. The Tech museum in San Jose and the Metreon in San Francisco are worth a visit. Enjoy your trip! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Chomko Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:56 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I just gave um an earful (politely). Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) From michaelkqkq at hotmail.com Sat Jun 7 18:25:00 2003 From: michaelkqkq at hotmail.com (Michael Pike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment Message-ID: Hello all... I am looking for old Osborne systems (one of each). I am looking for an Osborne 1 with the original disks and documentation. I used to have one as a teenager and have since lost it... I am interested in all of the Osborne series (Osborne 1, Vixen and Executive). The Osborne 1 is the most important as it was the first, but I am also interested in others as well. If you know of anyone who has one and will sell it, please email me.... I am very particular... it must have the books and original software. Thanks! Mike _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jun 7 19:07:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: contents of latest HP load Message-ID: <008a01c32d51$4bc023b0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> HP 2860 Dual bay rack with smoked plexiglass doors HP 2100A cpu w/24K (includes 12920/21 mux set with an extra control board for control lines on all ports, unknown board - HP DATA 12604-60001, three grd tru boards, terminator, mark reader interface, 8 bit duplex register, trans sync modem, recv sync modem, and I/O extender intf) HP 2155A I/O extender (includes buffd tty register, 13037 interface, terminator, and line printer interface) HP 2100S cpu w/32K (includes 7970 tape controller bds 1&2, TBG, priv. int, and jumper) HP 7970B mag tape drive (800 bpi) HP 2748B paper tape reader HP 2610A drum Line Printer HP 7261A optical mark card reader Teletype model 35 LOADS of docs and paper tapes. Many of which I have not seen before and are new to me at least. Most of this stuff is in perfect condition, a few items are in "fair to good" condition. Most of the paper tape library seems at first blush to be RJE centric, some DB/Image, RTE, and DOS stuff seems to be there as well. 12 binders of docs for pretty much everything, hardware & software. I put up some pictures of the stuff while it was all in the garage/basement at http://www.ezwind.net/jwest/HP Also got the wayward 30062 terminal controller multiplexer connector panel that I have been looking for. Yay! An oddball (to me) item was in there.... a 98041A disc interface. This appears to let an hp 98xx? calculator hook up to large HP disc drives? Time to take a week off work perhaps and clean & test & play :) Jay West From vance at neurotica.com Sat Jun 7 19:10:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: ZX81 Kits, socialist pinko left wingers and the right. In-Reply-To: <20030606172406.37387.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My problem is with the people who are stupid enough to raise their price so high that *no one* pays for it. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Todd Nathan wrote: > What cracks me up is that someone has the nuts > to accuse another in a free market system of greed. > What are you, some kind of socialist that another > owes you? Somebody purchases at their expense (where > is your money bub?), store at their expense (garage > or otherwise costs money), market at their expense > (if possible, were do you market such stuff these > days, eBay seems only viable option), and still get > them in the hands of those folks that enjoy and want > to buy one. 20 years ago your labor was a lot less > than it costs today, I speculate somewhere in the > range of 20-30% of what it is today. That makes > your labor costs today about 300-400% more today > than they were then. I don't see anyone accusing > you of being a greedy guy cause you get paid 200-300% > more than you did in the early 80s, or maybe you don't > work and suck of the nipple of the govern-mint. > > Just some thoughts. Hope you have a nice day! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jun 7 19:10:22 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today In-Reply-To: <010001c32c36$057844d0$a309dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: And best of all, the German seller called ace-x is still selling brand new remotes and rodents for the CDTV, as well as new A4000T motherboards (unpopulated) and stacks of Amiga floppy drives. I'd double-check his username but my ISP is being shit to say the least :( I can't even get to local UK sites ATM....is this the beginning of Demon's downfall? > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Keys > Sent: 06 June 2003 15:15 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > The web site that I visited shows a picture of the black monitor and at > another site I found the model number for it. No I didn't get the start-up > disk (the seller kept it?) but I did get 1 black cd caddy with it. I also > got a copy of the hook-up instructions and volume one Catalog of Titles > which list both software and hardware for the unit. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > > --- Keys wrote: > > > Well the Commodore CD-1000 CDTV box came today and now the > search starts > > > for the mouse, 3.5 FD, remote control, keyboard, and monitor for it. > > > > Those are fun. I used to have one until it was stolen in a burglary. > > > > If you can't find a CDTV IR keyboard, it's possible to whip up a > > keyboard converter to use a wired Amiga keyboard. > > > > If you are having problems finding a black external 3.5" FD, an > > ordinary beige Amiga A1010 works great. > > > > I do not know if there was ever a black monitor, but a regular Commodore > > 1080 or 2002 or any monitor that will sync to 15KHz (NEC 3d) will work, > > as will a TV set. > > > > The caddy is black, but is mechanically identical to the common caddies > > used in CD-ROM drives of the vintage. > > > > I "explored" mine with a DNet cable and the netkeys-handler. Another > > Amiga to the side provided the mouse and keyboard inputs over the > > "network". > > > > > It's based on the Amiga with a 68000 @ 7.14Mhz chip. Anyone > having extra > > > parts for this computer that they do not need contact me off list. > > > > Nope... no leftover parts, but a few sad memories. > > > > Did you get the startup disc with it? There's some interesting stuff > > in the nooks and crannies, including a pair of files, one still pic > > and a sound file with the same name... you'll know them when you find > > them (don't worry... they aren't pr0n or anything). > > > > -ethan From fernando at serto.com.br Sat Jun 7 19:10:43 2003 From: fernando at serto.com.br (Fernando Serto) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Sun SparcStation 5 power supplies (PN 300-1215-02) Message-ID: <069001c32cf7$76b87450$1e01a8c0@amidala> Hi mate! I've been looking for a power supply for my sparc5, and found one message from you, selling a few of these... do you still have one left? cheers, Fernando From dave at kaleidosoft.com Sat Jun 7 19:11:04 2003 From: dave at kaleidosoft.com (Dave Babcock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003401c32d16$2b80d620$a77ba8c0@merlin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:56 AM Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon > Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later > this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might > have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San > Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. > > I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone > have their schedule for the classic computer museum? The Computer History Museum (www.computerhistory.org) is no longer at NASA Ames but closeby in Mountain View. It now has a permanent home at 1401 N. Shoreline Blvd. (one freeway off-ramp north of NASA). In fact the grand opening of the new location was just this past week. The tour schedule is currently: Wednesdays at 1pm Fridays at 1pm 1st & 3rd Saturdays at 1pm and 2pm It's best to let the museum know you're coming so that enough docents will be scheduled for that day (http://www.computerhistory.org/about/tour/). I'd second the suggestion of stopping at Fry's Electronics and The Tech [Museum of Innovation]. Intel also has a museum on their history. Sorry I don't know the hours. Finally, depending on how far south you're planning to travel, there's another computer museum just north of San Diego - The Computer Museum of America (www.computer-museum.org). Enjoy your trip. Dave Babcock Volunteer, Computer History Museum From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Sat Jun 7 19:11:26 2003 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <01ea01c32d24$353bf420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On 07-Jun-2003 John Allain wrote: > Be sure to look here: >>> http://www.computerhistory.org/bldg/ << > Says it Juuust Opened! Yes, Michael Williams (the head-curator) mentioned it this Wednesday at Konrad-Zuse-Symposium in Karlsruhe, Germany. Looks like they have some *really* interesting exhibits... ... but obviously no working Z22, else he wouldn't have come to Karlsruhe and miss the opening-party of his museum ;-) bye Thilo From booleangeneral at ciudad.com.ar Sat Jun 7 19:11:48 2003 From: booleangeneral at ciudad.com.ar (Roberto Berner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030607193621.00a02950@pop3.ciudad.com.ar> Steve : I found your posting about the lower case option for the ADM-3A terminal . As you can see, this is not the last time that somebody will do this :o) I have one terminal here that works perfectly well. The only thing I need is the ROM listing to adapt some 2716 or 2732 the same way you did in the complete article web page. I couldn't download the files from the web page because it gives some kind of server error. Could you please be so kind to send me both files via email if they are still available ? I will appreciate that very much. Kind regards, Roberto G. Berner --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ADM-3A I just "restored" a nice brown/beige ADM-3A. I got a new CRT for USD 50, and then noticed that this unit didn't have lower case installed. What the "lower case" option consisted of was a lower case 2513-type ROM and a couple of 2102-1 chips, all of which can be inserted into sockets on the motherboard. Problem is, the lower case 2513 LC ROM is not readily available. So I built an adapter to make the multi-voltage 2513 PMOS chip I had from my other ADM-3A look like a 2716 to my EPROM programmer/reader. I read the upper and lower case chips, programmed a lower case 2716, and made a small adapter from to make the 2716 "look" like a 2513 in the socket, installed the chips/adapter, flipped a few switches, and voila! This is detailed athttp://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/adm3a-2.htm I don't think that this is the FIRST time that this has been done - but it might be among the last! From danjr at voyager.net Sat Jun 7 19:18:00 2003 From: danjr at voyager.net (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 Message-ID: <200306080013.h580DqZ101208@pilot07.cl.msu.edu> I am looking for an IBM PS/2 Model 25, preferrably one with an internal hard drive. If anyone has one or knows where I could get one cheap, I would be interested. This is the model with monitor integrated into the computer. Thanks Dan danjr@voyager.net From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jun 7 19:22:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today References: Message-ID: <01de01c32d53$2a4b2890$5b0bdd40@oemcomputer> If you can send me his url. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: ; Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 5:00 PM Subject: RE: Got my Commodore CDTV today > And best of all, the German seller called ace-x is still selling brand new > remotes and rodents for the CDTV, as well as new A4000T motherboards > (unpopulated) and stacks of Amiga floppy drives. I'd double-check his > username but my ISP is being shit to say the least :( I can't even get to > local UK sites ATM....is this the beginning of Demon's downfall? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Keys > > Sent: 06 June 2003 15:15 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > > > > The web site that I visited shows a picture of the black monitor and at > > another site I found the model number for it. No I didn't get the start-up > > disk (the seller kept it?) but I did get 1 black cd caddy with it. I also > > got a copy of the hook-up instructions and volume one Catalog of Titles > > which list both software and hardware for the unit. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:30 AM > > Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > > > > > --- Keys wrote: > > > > Well the Commodore CD-1000 CDTV box came today and now the > > search starts > > > > for the mouse, 3.5 FD, remote control, keyboard, and monitor for it. > > > > > > Those are fun. I used to have one until it was stolen in a burglary. > > > > > > If you can't find a CDTV IR keyboard, it's possible to whip up a > > > keyboard converter to use a wired Amiga keyboard. > > > > > > If you are having problems finding a black external 3.5" FD, an > > > ordinary beige Amiga A1010 works great. > > > > > > I do not know if there was ever a black monitor, but a regular Commodore > > > 1080 or 2002 or any monitor that will sync to 15KHz (NEC 3d) will work, > > > as will a TV set. > > > > > > The caddy is black, but is mechanically identical to the common caddies > > > used in CD-ROM drives of the vintage. > > > > > > I "explored" mine with a DNet cable and the netkeys-handler. Another > > > Amiga to the side provided the mouse and keyboard inputs over the > > > "network". > > > > > > > It's based on the Amiga with a 68000 @ 7.14Mhz chip. Anyone > > having extra > > > > parts for this computer that they do not need contact me off list. > > > > > > Nope... no leftover parts, but a few sad memories. > > > > > > Did you get the startup disc with it? There's some interesting stuff > > > in the nooks and crannies, including a pair of files, one still pic > > > and a sound file with the same name... you'll know them when you find > > > them (don't worry... they aren't pr0n or anything). > > > > > > -ethan From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 7 19:31:13 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: ZX81 Kits, socialist pinko left wingers and the right. References: Message-ID: <001901c32d53$f1d35400$727ca418@neo.rr.com> He probably doesnt want to be bothered with alot of small orders, just ones that are worth the money to do. Some people would rather not sell a unit unless its worth it finacially, nothing that uncommon (especially since he has the market cornered). ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Todd Nathan" Cc: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 5:30 PM Subject: Re: ZX81 Kits, socialist pinko left wingers and the right. > My problem is with the people who are stupid enough to raise their price > so high that *no one* pays for it. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Todd Nathan wrote: > > > What cracks me up is that someone has the nuts > > to accuse another in a free market system of greed. > > What are you, some kind of socialist that another > > owes you? Somebody purchases at their expense (where > > is your money bub?), store at their expense (garage > > or otherwise costs money), market at their expense > > (if possible, were do you market such stuff these > > days, eBay seems only viable option), and still get > > them in the hands of those folks that enjoy and want > > to buy one. 20 years ago your labor was a lot less > > than it costs today, I speculate somewhere in the > > range of 20-30% of what it is today. That makes > > your labor costs today about 300-400% more today > > than they were then. I don't see anyone accusing > > you of being a greedy guy cause you get paid 200-300% > > more than you did in the early 80s, or maybe you don't > > work and suck of the nipple of the govern-mint. > > > > Just some thoughts. Hope you have a nice day! From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jun 7 19:31:43 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: <200306080013.h580DqZ101208@pilot07.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: <01ee01c32d53$f5d99a00$5b0bdd40@oemcomputer> Where are you located ? I see them from time to time here in Houston but pass them up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hicks" To: Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:20 PM Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > I am looking for an IBM PS/2 Model 25, preferrably one with an internal > hard drive. If anyone has one or knows where I could get one cheap, I > would be interested. This is the model with monitor integrated into the > computer. > > Thanks > Dan > danjr@voyager.net From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sat Jun 7 19:57:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Interesting toy... "Gravis Phoenix"? Message-ID: <009101c32d57$9ba592b0$02c20b43@starfury> Clear DayJust picked up for pocket change at a yard sale: a Gravis Phoenix joystick/game pad combo (SN: 4794, Made in Canada, FCC ID: HYN1010A). Its old enough that it has, aside from the normal DB-15 game port adapter, a split unversal adapter for an AT or PS/2 keyboard port. The adapter is unique, I think, in the fact that it appears fully reversable to work with either. I plan to test it on my PC, but I wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of schematics, user manuals, drivers or installation packages. Any assist greatly appreciated... Cheers! Ed/San Antonio, Tx; USA From jdickens at ameritech.net Sat Jun 7 21:20:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2338A.B47C1909@verizon.net> References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <200306072300.31756.jdickens@ameritech.net> <3EE2338A.B47C1909@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200306080850.38540.jdickens@ameritech.net> snipped to save bandwidth > > Of course there are always Fry's computer store, which i miss badly since > > i moved to the mid-west. > > Where is Fry's computer store? > www.frys.com besure to check out local news papers... they usualy have 3 ad's per week at least they do in the Silicon Valley... you can find some pretty good bargains on new components... like ram and ide drives... James From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jun 7 21:49:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <200306080850.38540.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <200306072300.31756.jdickens@ameritech.net> <3EE2338A.B47C1909@verizon.net> <200306080850.38540.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > snipped to save bandwidth > > > > Of course there are always Fry's computer store, which i miss badly > > > since i moved to the mid-west. > > > > Where is Fry's computer store? > > > > www.frys.com > > besure to check out local news papers... they usualy have 3 ad's per > week at least they do in the Silicon Valley... you can find some pretty > good bargains on new components... like ram and ide drives... But...will it work in my VAX? ;P -Toth From jpdavis at gorge.net Sat Jun 7 23:32:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:11 2005 Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE2BA33.1010504@gorge.net> Michael Pike wrote: > Hello all... > > I am looking for old Osborne systems (one of each). I am looking for > an Osborne 1 with the original disks and documentation. I used to > have one as a teenager and have since lost it... > > I am interested in all of the Osborne series (Osborne 1, Vixen and > Executive). The Osborne 1 is the most important as it was the first, > but I am also interested in others as well. > > If you know of anyone who has one and will sell it, please email me.... > > I am very particular... it must have the books and original software. > > Thanks! > Mike > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > Sounds like you have a line on a deep pocket buyer. If you were a true collector, a complete package of manuals and "original disks" wouldn't matter. GO FISH! From jpdavis at gorge.net Sat Jun 7 23:39:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <200306080850.38540.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: <200306032142.OAA17992@clulw009.amd.com> <200306072300.31756.jdickens@ameritech.net> <3EE2338A.B47C1909@verizon.net> <200306080850.38540.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <3EE2BBE7.2080400@gorge.net> jamesd wrote: > > >> is Fry's computer store? >> >> >www.frys.com > >besure to check out local news papers... they usualy have 3 ad's per week at >least they do in the Silicon Valley... you can find some pretty good bargains >on new components... like ram and ide drives... > > > James > > > Heh, The finally used the frys.com url, It was procured after a protracted battle with a french-fry manufacture in the 90's, It was unused for years after the court trial. Jim Davis From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Jun 7 23:45:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32d46$07cc0e40$947ba8c0@p933> References: <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Erik, Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the general public." At 03:42 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >The CHM just opened this past Monday and now conducts tours of "visible >storage" on Wednesday afternoons and every other Saturday (First and >Third, I think). I've got some pictures from the grand opening up on >Vintage-computer at http://www.vintage-computer.com/chmopenhouse.shtml. > >Fry's is to be avoided as is any organization that makes it's living >effectively stealing from the general public. :) > >The Weird Stuff Warehouse is always fun, especially the "as-is" area out >back. > >The Tech museum in San Jose and the Metreon in San Francisco are worth a >visit. > >Enjoy your trip! > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Eric Chomko >Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:56 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon > >Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later >this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might >have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San >Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. > >I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone >have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must >see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to >the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I >just gave um an earful >(politely). > >Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me >happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Sat Jun 7 23:58:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Interesting toy... "Gravis Phoenix"? Message-ID: Actually, the joystick failed on my PC: the PS/2 connections disabled my keyboard, and the DB-15 connector blocked-out my sound card. Any thoughts on all of this? Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Ed Tillman [mailto:ETILLMAN@satx.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:48 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Interesting toy... "Gravis Phoenix"? ..Just picked up for pocket change at a yard sale: a Gravis Phoenix joystick/game pad combo (SN: 4794, Made in Canada, FCC ID: HYN1010A). Its old enough that it has, aside from the normal DB-15 game port adapter, a split unversal adapter for an AT or PS/2 keyboard port. The adapter is unique, I think, in the fact that it appears fully reversable to work with either. I plan to test it on my PC, but I wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of schematics, user manuals, drivers or installation packages. Any assist greatly appreciated... Cheers! Ed/San Antonio, Tx; USA From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jun 8 00:00:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c32d7a$26610b60$947ba8c0@p933> Ask and ye shall receive: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2734991210&category=1 247 I have absolutely nothing to do with the auction, the seller or eBay (other then my account). I just bumped into this listing after reading the email below. My best guess is that it'll close between $100 and $150 unless someone gets crazy. Best of luck! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Pike Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 4:20 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment Hello all... I am looking for old Osborne systems (one of each). I am looking for an Osborne 1 with the original disks and documentation. I used to have one as a teenager and have since lost it... I am interested in all of the Osborne series (Osborne 1, Vixen and Executive). The Osborne 1 is the most important as it was the first, but I am also interested in others as well. If you know of anyone who has one and will sell it, please email me.... I am very particular... it must have the books and original software. Thanks! Mike _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 00:14:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3EE2C40C.40207@gorge.net> Mail List wrote: > Erik, > > Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the > general public." You will be treated like crap at all levels of any transaction at fry's. Expect, No, assume that any advertised product will be out of stock, that the pepsi machine will of be of more help then the sailsdroids. Don't even think about using a check, unless you have about an hour or two to wait ( I AM NOT KIDDING ), Check all the packages, as frys simply returns defective and returned products to the shelves. Returns? Plan on spending the day. Need I say more? Jim Davis > > > > > > At 03:42 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote: > >> The CHM just opened this past Monday and now conducts tours of "visible >> storage" on Wednesday afternoons and every other Saturday (First and >> Third, I think). I've got some pictures from the grand opening up on >> Vintage-computer at http://www.vintage-computer.com/chmopenhouse.shtml. >> >> Fry's is to be avoided as is any organization that makes it's living >> effectively stealing from the general public. :) >> >> The Weird Stuff Warehouse is always fun, especially the "as-is" area out >> back. >> >> The Tech museum in San Jose and the Metreon in San Francisco are worth a >> visit. >> >> Enjoy your trip! >> >> Erik Klein >> www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >> The Vintage Computer Forum >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >> On Behalf Of Eric Chomko >> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:56 AM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon >> >> Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later >> this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might >> have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San >> Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. >> >> I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone >> have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must >> see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to >> the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I >> just gave um an earful >> (politely). >> >> Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me >> happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) From michaelkqkq at hotmail.com Sun Jun 8 00:24:00 2003 From: michaelkqkq at hotmail.com (Michael Pike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment Message-ID: Yeah, right... do you treat all of your new users like this>! I already am bidding on several on Ebay, but I want the original stuff... I already have a bunch of original machines, but the Osborne 1 was MY FIRST CPM machine (aside from my Timex Sinclair 1000). I found this mailing list by looking at an auction on ebay who uses this group. Yeah I am a collector, and I do have deep pockets for the right machine - so instead of being a jerk about it, why don't you try and help out. Mike >From: Jim Davis >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Osborne Computer Equipment >Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 21:23:15 -0700 > >Michael Pike wrote: > >>Hello all... >> >>I am looking for old Osborne systems (one of each). I am looking for an >>Osborne 1 with the original disks and documentation. I used to have one >>as a teenager and have since lost it... >> >>I am interested in all of the Osborne series (Osborne 1, Vixen and >>Executive). The Osborne 1 is the most important as it was the first, but >>I am also interested in others as well. >> >>If you know of anyone who has one and will sell it, please email me.... >> >>I am very particular... it must have the books and original software. >> >>Thanks! >>Mike >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus >> >Sounds like you have a line on a deep pocket buyer. If you were a true >collector, a complete package >of manuals and "original disks" wouldn't matter. GO FISH! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From michaelkqkq at hotmail.com Sun Jun 8 00:27:00 2003 From: michaelkqkq at hotmail.com (Michael Pike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment Message-ID: Woohoo! thanks! I might "get a little crazy" for this one :) mike >From: "Erik S. Klein" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: RE: Osborne Computer Equipment >Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 21:55:14 -0700 > >Ask and ye shall receive: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2734991210&category=1 >247 > >I have absolutely nothing to do with the auction, the seller or eBay >(other then my account). I just bumped into this listing after reading >the email below. > >My best guess is that it'll close between $100 and $150 unless someone >gets crazy. > >Best of luck! > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Michael Pike >Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 4:20 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment > >Hello all... > >I am looking for old Osborne systems (one of each). I am looking for an > >Osborne 1 with the original disks and documentation. I used to have one >as >a teenager and have since lost it... > >I am interested in all of the Osborne series (Osborne 1, Vixen and >Executive). The Osborne 1 is the most important as it was the first, >but I >am also interested in others as well. > >If you know of anyone who has one and will sell it, please email me.... > >I am very particular... it must have the books and original software. > >Thanks! >Mike > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jun 8 00:41:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> > Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the general > public." Fry's has several "policies" in place (or used to, I haven't been in that crap-hole for years) that fall under that category. They have shrink-wrap machines at every location and often re-wrap returns to re-sell as new - even those reported as defective by the customer returning them! (Hearsay from an ex-employee followed up by observing stacks of items that, to me anyway, were obviously re-wrapped) They deliberately make returns difficult so that people who buy recycled junk often won't bother to try getting their money back. If they do, the item's usually just head back to the shelves anyway. (Again, told to me by an ex-employee who I consider reliable) I remember purchasing RAM for an old P-III there once. The first SIMMS were bad so I brought them back. They tossed them on a tester at the returns desk (which took 45 minutes to get to) and told me "Yup, they're bad." Not one, not two, not even three, but ALL FOUR that I purchased were defective. The returns clerk put them in a large parts bin already full of similar items and, I'm fairly certain, eventually put that bin back in the stock area. I asked if I could do an exchange and test the replacements before I left and was told that store policy prohibited that. . . !!! I consider those things to be theft. The fact that I haven't met a Fry's employee who wasn't a drooling idiot (my friend was obviously too bright for the place! :) and the fact that the store always seemed to be out of the single thing you came in for always bothered me as well. One fun thing to try, by the way: When the Fry's bonehead at the guarded exit tries to search your bag, just walk on by. As it turns out they can't legally search your property (which the bag is the moment you pay for it) unless they have some reasonable belief that you are stealing. If they don't have this and detain you it is the equivalent of false arrest. I'm not alone, by the way: http://www.nonmundane.org/~dspisak/frys/frys.html http://www.accesscom.com/~dave6592/ http://billzhouse.com/rants/frys.html http://www.doofus.org/frys/ ("What Fry's won't tell you is that you do not have to let them inspect your bags. In fact, it is illegal for Fry's to detain you to search your property without first charging you with shoplifting.") http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/05/cov_21feature2.html ("And the horror stories are not just anecdotal. Most of Fry's Silicon Valley stores have "unsatisfactory" records with the Santa Clara Better Business Bureau for not responding to complaints -- although they do appear to resolve complaints reported to the Santa Clara County district attorney.") The list goes on, I just wish Fry's wouldn't. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mail List Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:40 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Erik, Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the general public." At 03:42 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >The CHM just opened this past Monday and now conducts tours of "visible >storage" on Wednesday afternoons and every other Saturday (First and >Third, I think). I've got some pictures from the grand opening up on >Vintage-computer at http://www.vintage-computer.com/chmopenhouse.shtml. > >Fry's is to be avoided as is any organization that makes it's living >effectively stealing from the general public. :) > >The Weird Stuff Warehouse is always fun, especially the "as-is" area out >back. > >The Tech museum in San Jose and the Metreon in San Francisco are worth a >visit. > >Enjoy your trip! > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Eric Chomko >Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:56 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon > >Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later >this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might >have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San >Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. > >I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone >have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must >see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to >the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I >just gave um an earful >(politely). > >Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me >happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 01:04:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2C40C.40207@gorge.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Jim, I didn't know you were having those kinds of problems there. When I was in San Diego till mid 90's, we didn't have a Fry's there yet, so I loved to stop into one every time I went on a training assignment up to the LA and Bay areas. With all the stuff they had there, I was like a kid in a candy store. Best Regards At 10:05 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >Mail List wrote: > >>Erik, >> >>Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the general >>public." > >You will be treated like crap at all levels of any transaction at fry's. >Expect, No, assume that >any advertised product will be out of stock, that the pepsi machine will >of be of more help >then the sailsdroids. Don't even think about using a check, unless you >have about an hour or >two to wait ( I AM NOT KIDDING ), Check all the packages, as frys simply >returns >defective and returned products to the shelves. Returns? Plan on spending >the day. >Need I say more? >Jim Davis > >> >> >> >> >> >>At 03:42 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >> >>>The CHM just opened this past Monday and now conducts tours of "visible >>>storage" on Wednesday afternoons and every other Saturday (First and >>>Third, I think). I've got some pictures from the grand opening up on >>>Vintage-computer at http://www.vintage-computer.com/chmopenhouse.shtml. >>> >>>Fry's is to be avoided as is any organization that makes it's living >>>effectively stealing from the general public. :) >>> >>>The Weird Stuff Warehouse is always fun, especially the "as-is" area out >>>back. >>> >>>The Tech museum in San Jose and the Metreon in San Francisco are worth a >>>visit. >>> >>>Enjoy your trip! >>> >>> Erik Klein >>> www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >>> The Vintage Computer Forum >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >>>On Behalf Of Eric Chomko >>>Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:56 AM >>>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>>Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon >>> >>>Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California later >>>this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might >>>have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San >>>Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. >>> >>>I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone >>>have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must >>>see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to >>>the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! I >>>just gave um an earful >>>(politely). >>> >>>Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make me >>>happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 01:24:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3EE2D480.8020000@gorge.net> Mail List wrote: > Hello Jim, > > I didn't know you were having those kinds of problems there. When I was > in San Diego till mid 90's, we didn't have a Fry's there yet, so I > loved to stop > into one every time I went on a training assignment up to the LA and Bay > areas. With all the stuff they had there, I was like a kid in a candy > store. > > Best Regards > > > See Erics reply. My experiences are at the Wilsonville store in Oregon. Every time I go there I swear I won't go back. But, Being a "JERK", I return every year or so for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors. Feh! Jim. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 8 01:42:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2D480.8020000@gorge.net> Message-ID: <000201c32d88$65b811b0$053acd18@D73KSM11> > Mail List wrote: > > > Hello Jim, > > > > I didn't know you were having those kinds of problems there. When I > > was in San Diego till mid 90's, we didn't have a Fry's > there yet, so I > > loved to stop into one every time I went on a training > assignment up > > to the LA and Bay areas. With all the stuff they had there, > I was like > > a kid in a candy store. > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > > See Erics reply. My experiences are at the Wilsonville store > in Oregon. > Every time > I go there I swear I won't go back. But, Being a "JERK", I > return every > year or so > for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors. Feh! > Jim. > Fry's is definitely a mixed blessing. A great store to buy that hard to find connector or IC, but not necessarily to buy current PC stuff. If you are careful, you shouldn't have many problems. I have made perhaps 150 purchases there and only had one problem with some SDRAM. And so what if they don't have the "legal" right to inspect your bag at the door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) then it's worth the few seconds wait. From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 01:46:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> References: <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <3EE2D997.2090007@gorge.net> This is too funny, I wrote my diatribe before I saw Eriks reply. Believe, Frys SUCKS. But you can sometimes get lucky, if you have time, patience and LUCK. Everything Erik wrote is true. Erik S. Klein wrote: >>Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the >> >> >general > > >>public." >> >> > >Fry's has several "policies" in place (or used to, I haven't been in >that crap-hole for years) that fall under that category. > >They have shrink-wrap machines at every location and often re-wrap >returns to re-sell as new - even those reported as defective by the >customer returning them! (Hearsay from an ex-employee followed up by >observing stacks of items that, to me anyway, were obviously re-wrapped) > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 8 01:46:22 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today In-Reply-To: <01de01c32d53$2a4b2890$5b0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030608064121.92114.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > If you can send me his url. Thanks Ooh... me, too! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witchy" > > > And best of all, the German seller called ace-x is still selling brand > > new remotes and rodents for the CDTV, as well as new A4000T > > motherboards (unpopulated) and stacks of Amiga floppy drives... -ethan From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 01:59:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2D480.8020000@gorge.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors Holy cow, those seem like very low prices. Is the quality of the products very good? I hope you don't have to get another one every year because they only last for a year? At 11:15 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >Mail List wrote: > >>Hello Jim, >> >>I didn't know you were having those kinds of problems there. When I was >>in San Diego till mid 90's, we didn't have a Fry's there yet, so I loved >>to stop >>into one every time I went on a training assignment up to the LA and Bay >>areas. With all the stuff they had there, I was like a kid in a candy store. >> >>Best Regards >> >> >See Erics reply. My experiences are at the Wilsonville store in Oregon. >Every time >I go there I swear I won't go back. But, Being a "JERK", I return every >year or so >for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors. Feh! >Jim. From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 02:07:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000201c32d88$65b811b0$053acd18@D73KSM11> References: <000201c32d88$65b811b0$053acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE2DEB0.4060800@gorge.net> Wayne M. Smith wrote: Unfortunatly, frys ( at least in oregon ) hasn't restocked their component inventory in quiite a while. The component / test instrument section consists of 2 small isles of dusty, yellowing bags of dips, leaded discretes and obsolete, overpriced scopes and dmms. It appears that fry's original component market has disappeared and been replaced with PC-centric junk and consumer toys. :-( Jim >> >> >Fry's is definitely a mixed blessing. A great store to buy that hard to >find connector or IC, but not necessarily to buy current PC stuff. If >you are careful, you shouldn't have many problems. I have made perhaps >150 purchases there and only had one problem with some SDRAM. And so >what if they don't have the "legal" right to inspect your bag at the >door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) then it's >worth the few seconds wait. From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 02:26:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3EE2E304.8040500@gorge.net> Mail List wrote: > > for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors > > Holy cow, those seem like very low prices. Is the quality > of the products very good? I hope you don't have to get > another one every year because they only last for a year? > I'm reading this on a philips 109S monitor I believe I paid $139 last year, It will even work at 1900X1440 but I need reading glasses to see the well defined but timy font. I usually use it at 1280X1024. I also purchased a pixi ( cheap ) monitor that I have used for over 2 years with no problems, paid $99 both are 19", both at frys. The Oregonian sports back page has a full page every day, today,: 30 gig maxtor drive $29.95 ( 30$ rebate ) 256 MB DDR2100 $19.99 ( rebate )128 Meg flash 29.99 CD/RW 35$. , flat screen monitor, 19" .25 DP 1600X1200 149$ Jim > > > > > From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 02:38:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> Mail List wrote: > > for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors > > Holy cow, those seem like very low prices. Is the quality > of the products very good? I hope you don't have to get > another one every year because they only last for a year? > > I have had CDR/W drives survive less then a year, beware. And not only from frys Worst screw? PC HEIDEN From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 03:29:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025610.05cb2020@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Erik, > I'm not alone, by the way: http://www.nonmundane.org/~dspisak/frys/frys.html http://www.accesscom.com/~dave6592/ http://billzhouse.com/rants/frys.html http://www.doofus.org/frys/ http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/05/cov_21feature2.html I read a few of those pages. As far a the fellow that didn't like not being able to return opened software. If they didn't have that policy in place, there would be many instances of people buying software, taking it home and copying it, and then attempting to take it back for a refund. A certain percentage of bad apples abuse the privilege, and the software industry had to do something about it. If he wants to know if a program is any good before he bought it, he should read the magazine reviews first. It's unfortunate that software selling stores don't have a system set up in the stores with the software packages already loaded on a test system where people could try it out there before buying. I thing Egghead did something like that at one time. As far a delays caused by wanting to pay by check, that happens at the grocery store too. I just cringe when waiting in the checkout line and I see someone ahead getting out their check book. If you want to get through the process faster, get a debit card for your checking account. It really makes it so much easier. With the guy that wrote that they didn't want to take his check because he had bounced a check a few months earlier, no wonder. I wouldn't want to take a check from someone that bounced checks either. As far as having purchases examined before leaving, they do that here too at CompUSA. The computer stores probably have a bad shoplifting problem. Many cutting edge computer parts are significant value, small package items. I just show them my bag and receipt, and move on. As far as being out of stock on the advertised item. Happens at CompUSA here too. It kind of sucks the way they do that, but I heard from the CompUSA employee that when CompUSA would advertise a sale price on something like a SIMM, they would only have a very limited number ( like six or seven pieces in an area with a population in the million+ range ) of them at each store. It's their "loss leader" ( is what I'd heard it called in the retail market), advertised to get people into the store. There is a line that forms before opening time on the day the ad flyer comes out in the newspaper. When I heard that, I just quit bothering with it. It wasn't worth wasting the time, just to save a few bucks, especially when it would usually be for naught unless you went through all that extra hassle for it. One thing I finally got completely fed up with is the rebate stuff. Last two things I got from CompUSA, I sent in the rebate forms and copies of the receipt, and they sent me back a card saying they were denying issuing the rebate because they didn't get a copy of the sales receipt. Guess what, the rebate form was stapled to the copy of the sales receipt. If they got the one, they most definitely got the other. Then they have these 800 numbers to call that result in naught. It's beginning to seem they're doing all that on purpose. Throw so many hurdles in the way of getting the rebate, that many just give up and never receive them. On the last two things I bought at CompUSA, I think there is still one rebate check I didn't receive, but it's been so long, I'm not even sure about it anymore. If they don't have instant rebates at the cash register anymore, they can take their rebate and shove it. I'm surprised there aren't class action lawsuits and federal investigation into the management of these rebate programs. As far as hardware returns, there was a guy around here, who eventually worked as a tech for some small clone shops, that would build or upgrade computers for his family, neighbors, etc. I heard he plugged the power connector to a floppy drive on backwards, burned out the drive's electronics, and then took it back to the computer store where he got it, knowing it was his own fault for burning it up, just telling them that it didn't work, to get another, instead of accepting responsibility for his own actions. I heard of another guy pulling a board out of the computer while it was powered up, damaging the motherboard. Selling computer parts to the general public can be a problem. Warranties are for defects in material or workmanship, and are not meant to cover failures caused by negligence or abuse. I even heard of a person that would intentionally damage the heads in his VCR with a screwdriver just before the warranty period was up, just so he could go get another unused unit. These stores that sell computer parts to the general public have to deal with those kind of problems every day. Then, it happens often that a part that is reported bad, isn't really bad at all. Sometimes it's user difficulties instead. And sometimes it's incompatibility issues. I had a Viking modem one time that just would not work in one particular motherboard, but worked perfectly in another motherboard, though other modems would work perfectly in that first motherboard. I've seen many other instances of many pieces of hardware not working when it would work perfectly under other circumstances. I'm so glad I don't mess with computers for home users anymore. From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 03:45:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3EE2F587.50402@gorge.net> Jim Davis wrote: > Mail List wrote: > >> > for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors >> >> Holy cow, those seem like very low prices. Is the quality >> of the products very good? I hope you don't have to get >> another one every year because they only last for a year? >> >> > I have had CDR/W drives survive less then a year, beware. And not only > from frys > Worst screw? PC HEIDEN > Sorry, Getting totally OT here, PC HEIDENS was considered the "SOUP NAZI" of the reseller world. Found their way to bankrupcy last year.. Har Har. NO CHIPS FOR YOU! What Frys does for the socialist/1984 idea of retail, PC Heidens wildly redefined the idea that the customer comes first. Never had a problem taking back stuff to frys ( not without a day long wait in line ). PC Heiden accused you of breaking it, if they took if back would keep it for months and then deny it was broken, and accuse you of fraud, cuss, never refund, bla bla bla. Amazing. Jim From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 8 04:32:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: <200306080013.h580DqZ101208@pilot07.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: <3EE3021F.30103@gifford.co.uk> Daniel Hicks wrote: > I am looking for an IBM PS/2 Model 25, preferrably one with an internal > hard drive. If anyone has one or knows where I could get one cheap, I > would be interested. This is the model with monitor integrated into the > computer. I saw some in Mendelson's in Dayton, Ohio. But it was a few years ago. http://www.meci.com/ -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 04:36:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2F587.50402@gorge.net> References: <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608050210.05c813c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Jim, Although not in your case, all those things probably did happen, ie customers breaking the parts, customers attempting to pull some kind of fraud, and way too often. Looks like he had difficulty handling it. Now I see he is starting a new business selling cables. Around here there have been so many computers stores open up and end up failing. They come and go like sand on the beach. I'm so glad I don't have anything to do with PC's and home users anymore. That "SOUP NAZI" thing is kind of humorous though. http://www.pkmeco.com/seinfeld/nazi.htm here's another humorous one ... http://www.macopinion.com/columns/arena/060898.html Best Regards >Jim Davis wrote: >Sorry, Getting totally OT here, PC HEIDENS was considered the "SOUP NAZI" >of the reseller >world. Found their way to bankrupcy last year.. Har Har. NO CHIPS FOR >YOU! What Frys >does for the socialist/1984 idea of retail, PC Heidens wildly redefined >the idea that the customer >comes first. Never had a problem taking back stuff to frys ( not without a >day long wait in line ). >PC Heiden accused you of breaking it, if they took if back would keep it >for months and then >deny it was broken, and accuse you of fraud, cuss, never refund, bla bla >bla. Amazing. >Jim From yakowenk at yahoo.com Sun Jun 8 04:49:00 2003 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Message-ID: <20030608094455.67239.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> For the first time in ages, the Classic Computer Rescue Squad web page is up-to-date. While my current burst of enthusiasm holds up, you may want to take a look at it and suggest additions and adjustments. It lives at this URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html Cheers, Bill. From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 8 06:10:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: NEC APC III Message-ID: <059e01c32dad$c6e9a960$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi all, Been doing some more scrounging from the curbside, found an NEC APC III. I thought at first it was just an XT style computer, but closer inspection showed it was at least a little more unusual than that. The whole inside of the system is filled up with descrete component boards pluged into a coman bus system. I asume this is memory expansion, HDD and FDD drive. It was significantly diferant from the standard XT hardware that I considered it was at least worth a second look. If some one could give me some more info or direct me to some long forgoten site with details of this machine I would apreciate it. Otherwise I'll just "throw it on the pile" and keep it around for good looks...... Peter T. From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 8 06:22:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608050210.05c813c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608050210.05c813c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3EE31A71.9070906@gorge.net> Mail List wrote: > Hello Jim, > > Although not in your case, all those things probably did happen, ie > customers > breaking the parts, customers attempting to pull some kind of fraud, > and way > too often. Looks like he had difficulty handling it. Now I see he is > starting a new > business selling cables. > > Around here there have been so many computers stores open up and end up > failing. They come and go like sand on the beach. > > I'm so glad I don't have anything to do with PC's and home users anymore. > The funny thing, they were 2 minutes from rohnler acres, Intel's biggest fab and surrounded by uncounted design, fab and software co.s, I wasn't aware of the joint until a geezer engineer and I went to get some quick memory one day. Still, a wouldn't do business with Pat Heiden. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 8 07:44:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: contents of latest HP load In-Reply-To: <008a01c32d51$4bc023b0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030608083532.3d1f58da@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:02 PM 6/7/03 -0500, you wrote: > >An oddball (to me) item was in there.... a 98041A disc interface. This >appears to let an hp 98xx? calculator hook up to large HP disc drives? yeap. It's for the 9845. I have one but I've never tried to hook it up and I'm not sure what drives it works with. NICE HAUL! BTW I've been meaning to write you but I've been BUSY. I picked up several of the 7970E tape drives. They all say 45 IPS inside and all but one are marked "option 052/151", the other one is marked "option 183". It was one of a pair that was mounted in one cabinent and run off of a single set of controller cards with some jumper cables connecting the two drives. Joe > >Time to take a week off work perhaps and clean & test & play :) > >Jay West From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Jun 8 09:12:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2D480.8020000@gorge.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE2D480.8020000@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3EE3446B.4000908@charter.net> We purchase about $50-60k a year from Fry's. We can buy HP printers there cheaper than from Ingram Micro or Tech Data. I usually never have a problem with Frys, but they are scared to screw with me. We purchase everything by company check and they no longer check with the bank. I got my bluff in by screaming to the store director and even got through to Randy Fry once. After I talked to Randy, I haven't had one incident of them not being very polite or giving me exactly what I want. A new CSM tried to stop me buying more than the "limit one per customer" CD-R blanks last year and the supervisor told them to ignore the limit and give me what ever I needed. That being said, I never buy anything that has been opened or even looks like it's been opened. I never buy ram or processors there or hard drives that are not in sealed factory packages. James > See Erics reply. My experiences are at the Wilsonville store in > Oregon. Every time > I go there I swear I won't go back. But, Being a "JERK", I return > every year or so > for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors. Feh! > Jim. > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jun 8 09:43:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Rare 1906 calculator ? Message-ID: <018601c32dcb$aae485a0$6409dd40@oemcomputer> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535682872&category=1247 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jun 8 09:48:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: ; from thilo.schmidt@unix-ag.uni-siegen.de on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 14:14:56 %z References: Message-ID: <20030608103422.GG1492@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.07 14:14 Thilo Schmidt wrote: > this Wednesday at Konrad-Zuse-Symposium in Karlsruhe, Germany. [...] > Z22 Details? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jun 8 10:33:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: Fw: contents of latest HP load Message-ID: <000d01c32dd2$90fe1aa0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > >I picked up > > several of the 7970E tape drives. They all say 45 IPS inside and all but > > one are marked "option 052/151", the other one is marked "option 183". It > > was one of a pair that was mounted in one cabinent and run off of a single > > set of controller cards with some jumper cables connecting the two drives. > > option 151 specifies 45ips, master PE read circuits, 9 track, PE write > circuits (1600bpi) > > From what I've seen, -151 is the most common to find 'in the wild' these > days > > I would suspect that 052 is an elective option, not a standard configuration > option. I can't find any docs on option 052. > > Option 183 I also can't find any docs on, but I would guess it is something > related to being a slave drive. > > HP 7970 tape drives could be read/write, read only, dual format, or multiple > format. They could also be slave only units (where you have to have a master > to use it) or master. > > I personally think the nicest setup for a single tape drive is > the -157/161/165 which are 3 varying speeds of a master that can deal with 7 > or 9 track, PE or NRZI. However, these can't write PE mode, only NRZI. Lets > you read the most types of media though. Then the best setup for two drives > is either two 151's on two separate controllers, or a 151 and 150 > master/slave setup. > > I find the manual on these options especially confusing. > > Jay West From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jun 8 10:52:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025610.05cb2020@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <000001c32dd5$4fe46d00$947ba8c0@p933> All that said you haven't convinced me that Fry's doesn't suck rocks. Sure other stores have their problems and sure some stores have some of Fry's policies but there is no place around that has the full compliment of BS that Fry's provides, including reselling known-damaged returns (I KNOW CompUSA, Best Buy and Circuit City, to name a few competitors, won't do that) Every one of the aforementioned stores has the same problems with the bad apples on the consumer side, but none seems to have the contempt for ALL of their customers based upon the inconsiderate or fraudulent few. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mail List Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 1:24 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Hello Erik, I read a few of those pages. ... I'm so glad I don't mess with computers for home users anymore. From drido at optushome.com.au Sun Jun 8 11:05:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: NEC APC III In-Reply-To: <059e01c32dad$c6e9a960$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> At 09:04 PM 6/8/03 +1000, you wrote: >Hi all, > > Been doing some more scrounging from the curbside, found an NEC APC >III. I thought at first it was just an XT style computer, but closer >inspection showed it was at least a little more unusual than that. The whole >inside of the system is filled up with descrete component boards pluged into a >coman bus system. I asume this is memory expansion, HDD and FDD drive. It was >significantly diferant from the standard XT hardware that I considered it was >at least worth a second look. If some one could give me some more info or >direct me to some long forgoten site with details of this machine I would >apreciate it. Otherwise I'll just "throw it on the pile" and keep it around >for good looks...... > > Peter T. I have a couple of them without keyboards so I can't do much with them. It's MS-DOS based, but not PC compatible. 8Mhz 8086, 640x400 color display. Mine have 720KB 5.25" floppy drives and 10MB hard disks. They did release a PC emulator card for them, but I don't think it worked that well. Here in Australia they were quite popular is pharamacies. I think some company supplied a complete system consisting of the APC III, 2 printers and the pharamacy software preloaded. From memory there was an early version of autocad that supported it's hires display. I think it's related to the PC9801 (only sold in Japan). I have a 75Mhz Pentium based NEC 9821 and it appears to have the same slots as the APC III. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 11:17:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE31A71.9070906@gorge.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608050210.05c813c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE1FD19.82CC5CF0@verizon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3EE2E5CB.6030908@gorge.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030608050210.05c813c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608114951.06391ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Jim, My favorite place to get PC parts is "The Chip Merchant" in San Diego. http://www.thechipmerchant.com/ When I was in San Diego, I used to go there in person to get parts. They are in the Kearny Mesa area of San Diego. After I moved back to the east coast, I still mail ordered from them. I haven't gotten anything in at least a couple of years now though. They always had the better grades of PC parts available too. Best Regards At 04:13 AM 6/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >Mail List wrote: > >>Hello Jim, >> >>Although not in your case, all those things probably did happen, ie customers >>breaking the parts, customers attempting to pull some kind of fraud, and way >>too often. Looks like he had difficulty handling it. Now I see he is >>starting a new >>business selling cables. >> >>Around here there have been so many computers stores open up and end up >>failing. They come and go like sand on the beach. >> >>I'm so glad I don't have anything to do with PC's and home users anymore. >> > >The funny thing, they were 2 minutes from rohnler acres, Intel's biggest fab >and surrounded by uncounted design, fab and software co.s, I wasn't aware >of the joint until a geezer engineer and I went to get some quick memory >one day. >Still, a wouldn't do business with Pat Heiden. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 11:28:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <200306072300.31756.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > The tech museum, in San Jose is a must see, and your family might even enjoy > it slightly, kids always did. The TechMuseum is one of those places that you go away from feeling cheated. Go to the Exploratorium in SF instead. > You could always try and track down transmeta, corp. and see where linus > torvalds works, but only if your a linux fan. and in the same genre, you > could check out the silicon vallley Lug meeting and see if you get lucky > Linus pops in to the meeting. which he has been known to do. Can you say "restraining order"? ;) > Casa De Fruita, off highway 152 near gilroy, CA ... not computer related but > cool over grown fruit stand... fun for the whole family And Buffalo Burgers! Yum! > Of course there are always Fry's computer store, which i miss badly since i > moved to the mid-west. Go to the one in Sunnyvale to see the Apple-1. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 11:37:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32dd5$4fe46d00$947ba8c0@p933> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025610.05cb2020@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608122004.0639b0b0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Erik, > All that said you haven't convinced me that Fry's doesn't suck rocks. I believe you. I haven't been to a Fry's in eight years now. We don't have them here on the east coast. In that much time, things sure could have gotten a whole lot worse there than I remember. I really didn't like buying PC parts at Circuit City. I've just never tried Best Buy yet. Not too thrilled with buying computer parts from Office Max or Office Depot either. So I still have to pick up stuff from CompUSA, clone shops, or mail order. As I mentioned in a previous message, one of my favorite places for PC parts is "The Chip Merchant" in San Diego. http://www.thechipmerchant.com/ Best Regards At 08:47 AM 6/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >All that said you haven't convinced me that Fry's doesn't suck rocks. >Sure other stores have their problems and sure some stores have some of >Fry's policies but there is no place around that has the full compliment >of BS that Fry's provides, including reselling known-damaged returns (I >KNOW CompUSA, Best Buy and Circuit City, to name a few competitors, >won't do that) > >Every one of the aforementioned stores has the same problems with the >bad apples on the consumer side, but none seems to have the contempt for >ALL of their customers based upon the inconsiderate or fraudulent few. > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Mail List >Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 1:24 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon > >Hello Erik, > >I read a few of those pages. >... >I'm so glad I don't mess with computers for home users anymore. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 11:43:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2C40C.40207@gorge.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Jim Davis wrote: > You will be treated like crap at all levels of any transaction at fry's. > Expect, No, assume that > any advertised product will be out of stock, that the pepsi machine > will of be of more help > then the sailsdroids. Don't even think about using a check, unless you > have about an hour or > two to wait ( I AM NOT KIDDING ), Check all the packages, as frys simply > returns > defective and returned products to the shelves. Returns? Plan on > spending the day. > Need I say more? And that's on a GOOD day!!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 11:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > They have shrink-wrap machines at every location and often re-wrap > returns to re-sell as new - even those reported as defective by the > customer returning them! (Hearsay from an ex-employee followed up by > observing stacks of items that, to me anyway, were obviously re-wrapped) One fun game to play in Fry's is "Let's Try to Find a New, Un-opened Package". > The fact that I haven't met a Fry's employee who wasn't a drooling idiot > (my friend was obviously too bright for the place! :) and the fact that > the store always seemed to be out of the single thing you came in for > always bothered me as well. And I don't mean to sound racist, but it would be nice if they could hire people that could properly enunciate the English language. But I'm afraid having them actually know anything about computers or electronics would be too much to ask. > One fun thing to try, by the way: When the Fry's bonehead at the guarded > exit tries to search your bag, just walk on by. As it turns out they > can't legally search your property (which the bag is the moment you pay > for it) unless they have some reasonable belief that you are stealing. > If they don't have this and detain you it is the equivalent of false > arrest. I have never stopped for that clown and nothing in California law gives them the right to detain you unless you either a) consent or b) they have a reasonable suspicion as you've mentioned. It is one of the rudest retail practices I have ever experienced. Other lame places like CompUSA and some Home Depots have adopted this practice. It's fun when the Simulation Guard feels jilted when you just walk by them and they call after you. I usually tell them to get a real job. > The list goes on, I just wish Fry's wouldn't. You're not the only one, brother. That they have managed to survive until this day is one of the great Silicon Valley Mysteries (even more mysterious than the Winchester Mystery House!) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 11:54:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Mail List wrote: > I didn't know you were having those kinds of problems there. When I was > in San Diego till mid 90's, we didn't have a Fry's there yet, so I loved > to stop into one every time I went on a training assignment up to the LA > and Bay areas. With all the stuff they had there, I was like a kid in a > candy store. That's typical of new shoppers and out-of-towners. Larry Anderson and I once escorted a group of Finnish classic computer nerds to Fry's and it was like Disneyland for them. You don't actually realize just how lame Fry's is unless you live here and have gone there several times. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 11:56:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000201c32d88$65b811b0$053acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > 150 purchases there and only had one problem with some SDRAM. And so > what if they don't have the "legal" right to inspect your bag at the > door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) then it's > worth the few seconds wait. Maybe you don't mind the insinuation that you are guilty of something until showing your receipt for someone to mark it with a highlighter somehow magically admonishes you of any wrong-doing, but I do. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 11:58:02 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025246.05cb5c80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Mail List wrote: > > for the $19 CDR/W drives and $99 19" monitors > > Holy cow, those seem like very low prices. Is the quality > of the products very good? I hope you don't have to get > another one every year because they only last for a year? Just like with any retail establishment, they sucker you in with cheap shit in the hopes that you'll buy other stuff while you're there. Sometimes they offer good deals on good product, but the product is most likely a bin of returns that they've re-packaged and put back out on the floor. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 12:03:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608025610.05cb2020@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Mail List wrote: > Hello Erik, > > > I'm not alone, by the way: > > http://www.nonmundane.org/~dspisak/frys/frys.html > http://www.accesscom.com/~dave6592/ > http://billzhouse.com/rants/frys.html > http://www.doofus.org/frys/ > http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/05/cov_21feature2.html > > > I read a few of those pages. <...> That's all fine and good but this is Fry's we're talking about. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 8 12:10:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32dd5$4fe46d00$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > All that said you haven't convinced me that Fry's doesn't suck rocks. > Sure other stores have their problems and sure some stores have some of > Fry's policies but there is no place around that has the full compliment > of BS that Fry's provides, including reselling known-damaged returns (I > KNOW CompUSA, Best Buy and Circuit City, to name a few competitors, > won't do that) Evil idea: buy something from Fry's, open it up, disconnect a few wires or remove a few ICs, leave some sort of note inside, then put it back together and into the package, mark the package in some discreet way, then return it and tell the clerk it's broken. Next day, go back to the store and see if it's on the shelves. Bring a news media crew with you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Jun 8 12:11:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: FA: Items of interest Message-ID: <200306081006010378.0323E874@192.168.42.129> I've placed a few items that may be of interest to the group up for auction on E-pay. First, a pair of ISA-bus prototype cards from JDR... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36327&item=2537218109 A box of unused DC6150 tape cartridges... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11165&item=2735013041 And a NuBus prototyping board from Vector... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4601&item=2735015142 Thanks for putting up with my occasional bursts of ad. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 12:12:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:12 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608125936.06781160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Sellam, > You don't actually realize just how lame Fry's is unless you live here > and have gone there several times. I'd generally have a chance to stop in there a few times a year for several years in the early to mid 90's, but that was eight years ago. In that much time, they may have gotten a whole lot worse than I remembered. Best Regards At 09:45 AM 6/8/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Mail List wrote: > > > I didn't know you were having those kinds of problems there. When I was > > in San Diego till mid 90's, we didn't have a Fry's there yet, so I loved > > to stop into one every time I went on a training assignment up to the LA > > and Bay areas. With all the stuff they had there, I was like a kid in a > > candy store. > >That's typical of new shoppers and out-of-towners. Larry Anderson and I >once escorted a group of Finnish classic computer nerds to Fry's and it >was like Disneyland for them. You don't actually realize just how lame >Fry's is unless you live here and have gone there several times. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 8 12:43:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: WTGRO: SGI Prof Iris 4D/80 Message-ID: I've got an SGI Professional Iris 4D/80, sans disk and some trim pieces on the case, that I want to get rid of. It's got some Digital and analog video input connections on it, and the max ram you can put in on the mainboard (16MB?) I'm willing to ship the whole thing, or just the boards + I/O bulk heads. $10 + shipping (Pickup is OK, too) for it all, or any part of it. I'm in Lafayette, IN, near Purdue. At least the case needs to be gone by next weekend, I can hold onto the boards for another week or so. I'm out of space and trying to thin the collection out. I've never hooked it up, and selling it for less than I paid for it when I got it a few months ago. I just want to keep it out of the dumpster if I can. Email me (off-list) if you have any questions, I can get a list of the boards in it if anyone is interested. If there's a lot of response, I'll take the best offer I get by Tuesday morning. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jun 8 13:22:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32dd5$4fe46d00$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > All that said you haven't convinced me that Fry's doesn't suck rocks. > Sure other stores have their problems and sure some stores have some of > Fry's policies but there is no place around that has the full compliment > of BS that Fry's provides, including reselling known-damaged returns (I > KNOW CompUSA, Best Buy and Circuit City, to name a few competitors, > won't do that) > > Every one of the aforementioned stores has the same problems with the > bad apples on the consumer side, but none seems to have the contempt for > ALL of their customers based upon the inconsiderate or fraudulent few. > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum I alway figure an ~$100 add-on for the "Frys experience" Then see if what they have is still a bargain, Usually keeps me away... Peter Wallace From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 8 13:33:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE2C40C.40207@gorge.net> Message-ID: You guys are MUCH too easy on Fry's. Yes, they do suck rocks. > > Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the > > general public." Fry's does not have enough competence to "effectively steal". The Fry's staff has a much lower competence level than the MEDIAN of the general populace. It's where people go to work who can't pass the McDonald's written test. It helps if you speak multiple languages, because there are few employees who are really fluent in English. Yes, it is true that the majority of stuff that gets returned to a store isn't really broken. But putting it back on the shelves without testing it is inexcusable. They started off as a grocery store (part of the Fry's grocery chain), that added in a couple of aisles of electronics hobby stuff. Then they got rid of the stuff that hackers didn't want, like produce. In those days, they were great as a one-stop hackers' store - frozen food, candy, soda, aspirin, chips of both types, . . . Years ago, when they sold us dozens of sets of bad RAM for our 5150's, their "tech support" people "tested" them and declared them "good". We explained that they DID NOT WORK in real, genuine OEM IBM PC's. Their "tech support" people thought that OEM was a brand name. Eventually, after several letters of complaint, cc'ed to the editor of Microtimes (Mary Eisenstadt (sp?)), David? Fry himself came to us and replaced the bad RAM. > any advertised product will be out of stock, that the pepsi machine > will of be of more help It took my money and didn't give me my soda. But the staff were even less help than it. After more than 20 years as an industry "leader", it wasn't until about a year ago that they finally had enough in-house expertise to even HAVE a website! And don't forget the NOISE level! Try a Saturday afternoon. Do they really need to have a barker WITH AMPLIFICATION peddling washing machines? But we keep going back, because the prices are good, and it is a great experience for tourists. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 8 13:38:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Casa De Fruita, off highway 152 near gilroy, CA ... not computer related but > > cool over grown fruit stand... fun for the whole family Yes! Its smelly, but its fun. Well, the first time.. I have driven that road (between Mtn Vw and Long Beach... 101->152->5->710) way too often to even notice anymore :) Case is fun, though. > Go to the one in Sunnyvale to see the Apple-1. Hmm.. although Fry's in Sunnyvale is spacey (well, the new one, the one on Arques), its not as much "fun" as the one in Palo Alto is. A large puter(-ish) store, in western style.. yee-haw! :) --f From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jun 8 13:44:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: New aquisitions Message-ID: <000001c32ded$5848f020$947ba8c0@p933> Yesterday I drove about 250 miles (round trip) to get a small truckload of old computers and parts. The partial list is below: Various manuals including, but not limited to: Teletek FDC-1, SBC-1, System Master, SBC 86/87 guides and others Digital Research Assembler and Tools manual, Macro Assembler Manual and Link-80 manual Turbodos (various manuals) Lync Telecom (Manuals, disk, etc.) Peak 68K S-100 card docs Soroc IQ130 Operators Guide MPM OS Guide, Users Guide, Programmers Guide. Western Digital FDC 1771m 1791 datasheets CP-Net Network OS guide Jameco JE664 EPROM Programmer Manual Solid State Music PBI and IO4 Manuals Heathkit H-88 Operators Manual Godbout/Compupro Product User Manuals 1975-1980 (bound) A variety of N* manuals including MDS-A and MDS-A-D, DOS, System SW and others Zilog 82/83 data book ST506 OEM and Service manuals Books including: TV Typewriter Cookbook (from Radio Shack) Intro to Microcomputers (1976 - Osborne) Z-80 How To Program - Zaks 8088/8086 programming - Cofferton Tons of disks (at least 100 each of 5.25" and 8" and a hand full of 3.5") including: Minix on 5.25 Turbodos Boot, etc. Basic/C-basic versions Sourcer 5.25 Modula-II 5.25 Turbo-Pascal 5.25 and 8" OS-88 5.25 (about 15-20 disks) CP/M (8") 3 S-100 computers 1 tall rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives and 1 Hard Drive 1 shorter rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives but no cards 1 shorter rackmount with 1 N* 5.25" and several cards About 6-10 loose S-100 cards including IMS 8K and 4K RAM, a partial populated 86/87 card and a few others. Other machines 1 Heathkit H-19 terminal in good condition 1 Zenith H-88 or H-89 equivalent, beat to piss but maybe reparable. 2 AT class (I think) clones. Misc: Some DC300XL tapes A pile of MM5257N-3 parts (I have no idea what they are) Lantastic-Z package with cables, software, docs, etc. A really neat National Semiconductor Series 32000 kit including docs, spec sheets, data sheets and some chips. I even got a nearly full box of Greenbar I haven't had a chance to clean or power up any of the machines, nor have I really looked at all of the disk labels to see what software there is. All that will take some time. Once I do that I'll just have to figure out what to do with everything! :) Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 8 13:47:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > You will be treated like crap at all levels of any transaction at fry's. Hmm... must be my cute appearance and sweet voice then, because I was NEVER treated badly @ Fry's. And jesus, at one point my friends just drove to Fry's rather than my place if they were looking for me, so I *did* spend some time there :) Basically... everyone there wearing a Fry's badge is clueless. That is a fact. They're paid to walk around and take your cash, but not anything else. Get your facts right BEFORE walking in, or you'll loose. Oh, and indeed, their return policy means: ---------- [with heavy Indian accent] Oooh, Sir, so it did not work? Let me call my Supervisor, and we will refund you then. [throws unchecked package on stack of stuff] Thank You, Sir, and shop here again! ---------- Later, I'd see someone with that stuff in a cart, returning the packages to their shelves.. ;-) Did I mention how I managed to get an ethernet card NOT working by accidentally plugging it into my 220VAC ? OK, so I didnt like the friggin card and wanted to return it, but still.. they never checked, and I am sure they just placed it back on the shelf... But, however clueless they are, they were never rude to me, or let me wait long. [mental note: DO NOT pay with a Platinum card. you WILL be talking to a black-hatted security professional soon after, usually one from the Sunnyvale Police.] All that said... I love to hang around there. The automatic piano in their Sunnyvale store rocks, and I have spent endless hours there, talking to customers who were looking for wireless [ethernet] gear, up to the point where I was asked by a staff member to help myself to anything in their coffee shop ;-) --fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 8 13:48:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > You guys are MUCH too easy on Fry's. > > Yes, they do suck rocks. NO NO NO! With the right attitude while going in there, it can be a blast! --fred (regular camper @ sunnyvale, paloalto and huntington beach stores) From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 8 14:09:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608150336.00a4eec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hallo Fred, > [mental note: DO NOT pay with a Platinum card. you WILL be talking > to a black-hatted security professional soon after, usually one > from the Sunnyvale Police.] Why is that? At 08:40 PM 6/8/03 +0200, you wrote: >On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > You will be treated like crap at all levels of any transaction at fry's. > >Hmm... must be my cute appearance and sweet voice then, because I >was NEVER treated badly @ Fry's. And jesus, at one point my friends >just drove to Fry's rather than my place if they were looking for me, >so I *did* spend some time there :) > >Basically... everyone there wearing a Fry's badge is clueless. That >is a fact. They're paid to walk around and take your cash, but not >anything else. Get your facts right BEFORE walking in, or you'll >loose. > >Oh, and indeed, their return policy means: > >---------- >[with heavy Indian accent] > >Oooh, Sir, so it did not work? Let me call my Supervisor, >and we will refund you then. > >[throws unchecked package on stack of stuff] > >Thank You, Sir, and shop here again! >---------- > >Later, I'd see someone with that stuff in a cart, returning >the packages to their shelves.. ;-) > >Did I mention how I managed to get an ethernet card NOT working >by accidentally plugging it into my 220VAC ? OK, so I didnt like >the friggin card and wanted to return it, but still.. they never >checked, and I am sure they just placed it back on the shelf... > >But, however clueless they are, they were never rude to me, or let >me wait long. > >[mental note: DO NOT pay with a Platinum card. you WILL be talking > to a black-hatted security professional soon after, usually one > from the Sunnyvale Police.] > >All that said... I love to hang around there. The automatic piano >in their Sunnyvale store rocks, and I have spent endless hours there, >talking to customers who were looking for wireless [ethernet] gear, >up to the point where I was asked by a staff member to help myself >to anything in their coffee shop ;-) > >--fred From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 8 14:18:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >You guys are MUCH too easy on Fry's. > >Yes, they do suck rocks. Pretty much. Especially given how the prices, at least up here have gone up. When Fry's opened their Oregon store, they had really good prices, often better than the local hole in the wall PC shops. When DVD's started to hit mainstream, they had really good prices. Now overall, a trip to Best Buy is more worth my time. For us, it's a long trip, and the last time we went, which was a month or two ago, after over 9 months, the prices sucked! There are some simple rules though to make your buying experience better. 1. Know what prices should be on stuff! 2. Have a reason besides Fry's to be in the area (In our case, first we visit my Grandmother, and we finish it off by going to a resturant that we like). 3. Only buy new merchandise (or a least try to). 4. Only go when there is a bunch of stuff you're looking for. 5. Don't buy anything there that you might want to return (though I must admit, they were very easy to deal with the one time we returned something). 6. Don't get sucked in by their sales! Do they ever have enough sale HD's in stock? 7. Know what the competition in the area sells the same stuff for! In other words know what prices should be on stuff! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 8 14:20:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608150336.00a4eec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Mail List wrote: > > [mental note: DO NOT pay with a Platinum card. you WILL be talking > > to a black-hatted security professional soon after, usually one > > from the Sunnyvale Police.] > > Why is that? 'cos they, smart as they are, will assume there is no way you, at your age, could possibly have one, legally. :) .. which 'd result in them yelling 'super!' and boom, there you are. --f From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 8 14:29:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's has a problem with platinum cards? (was: goin to CA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > [mental note: DO NOT pay with a Platinum card. you WILL be talking > > > to a black-hatted security professional soon after, usually one > > > from the Sunnyvale Police.] > > Why is that? > 'cos they, smart as they are, will assume there is no way you, at > your age, could possibly have one, legally. :) at MY age?? Go there for the ENTERTAINMENT value. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 8 14:44:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's has a problem with platinum cards? (was: goin to CA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > 'cos they, smart as they are, will assume there is no way you, at > > your age, could possibly have one, legally. :) > > at MY age?? Well, when I went there. And, I look young, that didnt help. Fortunately, my bank is right across the street there, so a quick call and their branch manager came in to Fry's, suggesting they very quickly drop it and offer their apologies to their (bank's) premier customer ;) Whee! They DID get the hint, by the way, I got the item for free, and never had trouble thereafter. But still. If you look suspicious, or do something suspicious, they usually dont go out of their way to make sure its innocent before calling the c0ps. --f From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 8 15:18:00 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Modern monitors for HP 9000 300 Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone have a suggestion as to a color monitor to use with old HP 9000 300 series machines? The important number is the line rate of 25 kHz. Most modern multi-sync models only start at 30 KHz so won't sync on to these older machines. Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jun 8 15:30:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Go to the one in Sunnyvale to see the Apple-1. > > Hmm.. although Fry's in Sunnyvale is spacey (well, the new one, the > one on Arques), its not as much "fun" as the one in Palo Alto is. > > A large puter(-ish) store, in western style.. yee-haw! :) Some background for people who don't live on the U.S. west coast or in Arizona, apart from Fry's being a cheap electronics reseller of notorious repute, many (all?) or their stores have "themes." My favorite (and I use that term loosely) Fry's has to be the one in Burbank, California on Hollywood Way near the airport. It's store theme is that of 1950-60s sci-fi movies. Visible from the parking lot, there's a flying saucer crashed into the side of the building. Inside there are a variety of aliens, giant ants, a monster octopus, and some GIs in an old army jeep that's been sliced in half by an alien's ray gun blast. The other ones I've visited are the ancient Roman themed one down around Fountain Valley in Orange County and the Tiki/island themed one near LAX. I visited the San Diego one years ago now, but I wasn't paying attention to anything apart from the electronic gear. I've only had one defective purchase experience there. I bought three external drive enclosures from them. Two of the three enclosures had defective (and very cheaply made) power supplies, so I ended up taking them all back and getting a refund. I've avoided the place for at least three or four years now; basically since the late 1990s when the DIY PC upgrades side of things became mainstream. Aside from the sometimes interesting decor, I find being stuck in a Fry's to be a nauseating experience. You've got sales clerks incessantly chasing you around, asking if they can help you. At least I think they're asking to help me; half the time it's hard to know what is being said. Then you've got various senior clerks at POS terminals over near the hard drive, motherboard, and memory aisles. They tend to struggle with basic data entry. Good luck trying to have them check to see if a particular motherboard or drive is in stock. And god help you if you're a clueless customer who accepts "technical advice" from one of them. If you make it a rule to avoid the store sales staff at all costs, you'll have better luck with your purchase. Then, at least in more recent years, there are the masses of rude and technologically inept customers, pushing their way about the store. Sometimes a cluster of them will pause for a moment, and the "guru" in the bunch will loudly yammer away in misinformed techno-babble to the other members in the shopping party. Their heads bob in acknowledgement and awe of their computer genius friend. Come to think of it, the experience of shopping at Fry's (or CompUSA, Best Buy, Radio Shack, or Circuit City), as a modern /cultural/ experience is probably one of the single greatest reasons that I've turned to classic computing as a hobby. The mainstream PC and Windows mindset is one of general incompetence; those who subscribe to it effectively accept that their hardware and software fails all the time because "that's how computers are." Bleh. -brian. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 8 15:42:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > Some background for people who don't live on the U.S. west coast or > in Arizona, apart from Fry's being a cheap electronics reseller of > notorious repute, many (all?) or their stores have "themes." Yup. The old building of the Sunnyvale store (their first) was a giant chip :) The new one is kinda themeless, methinks. > blast. The other ones I've visited are the ancient Roman themed one > down around Fountain Valley in Orange County and the Tiki/island themed > one near LAX. Yeah, the Fountain Valley one is fun.. its just hard to find, hidden away inbeween various semi-deserted commercial lots and old buildings... took me a while to find it, but was a nice drive down the 405, soo.. > Aside from the sometimes interesting decor, I find being stuck in a > Fry's to be a nauseating experience. You've got sales clerks > incessantly chasing you around, asking if they can help you. Look back at them in anger, works miracles. "DO NOT DISTURB me when I am enjoying myself" seems to be what they get from that look ;) > At least I > think they're asking to help me; half the time it's hard to know what is > being said. Yeah, they're never selected on their english-speaking capabilities, that's for sure. I once complained, and I got "yeah, well, he's not from here, he's a foreigner." "Well, duh, so am I, so deal with it." > Bleh. Yes, and I find it amusing to wander between, sipping my coffee :) --f From aek at spies.com Sun Jun 8 15:53:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306082051.h58Kp8QO022472@spies.com> If anyone has a copy of the RL02 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow it to add to the documentation archive. ==== Thanks to Tom Uban, there is now a scan up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dec/disc From aek at spies.com Sun Jun 8 15:57:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Message-ID: <200306082055.h58KtGJm022788@spies.com> The old building of the Sunnyvale store (their first) was a giant chip :) == That was their SECOND location in Sunnyvale. The first was two blocks east, on the other side of Laurence Expr. MUCH smaller, but a larger selection of useful stuff (like ICs). I don't think I've been there more than three times since they moved from there.. It is such a hateful experience I'll go anywhere else first. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 8 17:04:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <200306082055.h58KtGJm022788@spies.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > The old building of the Sunnyvale store (their first) was > a giant chip :) > > == > > That was their SECOND location in Sunnyvale. The first was two blocks > east, on the other side of Laurence Expr. MUCH smaller, but a larger > selection of useful stuff (like ICs). Er... their second? I always thought that was their first.. I mean the one just off of Lawrence Expwy, righthand-side when coming off the 237, going towards Central Expwy.. its right before where Arques crosses Lawrence. Anyway. Even there, they're kinda dorky :) --fred From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jun 8 17:41:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today In-Reply-To: <01de01c32d53$2a4b2890$5b0bdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: Try this: http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&user id=act-e&sort=2&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1 You might need to cut'n'paste that link if it gets wrapped in your mail reader though. There's at least 1 remote there on the first page. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Keys > Sent: 08 June 2003 01:16 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > If you can send me his url. Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witchy" > To: ; > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 5:00 PM > Subject: RE: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > > And best of all, the German seller called ace-x is still > selling brand new > > remotes and rodents for the CDTV, as well as new A4000T motherboards > > (unpopulated) and stacks of Amiga floppy drives. I'd double-check his > > username but my ISP is being shit to say the least :( I can't > even get to > > local UK sites ATM....is this the beginning of Demon's downfall? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Keys > > > Sent: 06 June 2003 15:15 > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > > > > > > > The web site that I visited shows a picture of the black > monitor and at > > > another site I found the model number for it. No I didn't get the > start-up > > > disk (the seller kept it?) but I did get 1 black cd caddy with it. I > also > > > got a copy of the hook-up instructions and volume one Catalog > of Titles > > > which list both software and hardware for the unit. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > > > > > > > > --- Keys wrote: > > > > > Well the Commodore CD-1000 CDTV box came today and now the > > > search starts > > > > > for the mouse, 3.5 FD, remote control, keyboard, and > monitor for it. > > > > > > > > Those are fun. I used to have one until it was stolen in a > burglary. > > > > > > > > If you can't find a CDTV IR keyboard, it's possible to whip up a > > > > keyboard converter to use a wired Amiga keyboard. > > > > > > > > If you are having problems finding a black external 3.5" FD, an > > > > ordinary beige Amiga A1010 works great. > > > > > > > > I do not know if there was ever a black monitor, but a regular > Commodore > > > > 1080 or 2002 or any monitor that will sync to 15KHz (NEC 3d) will > work, > > > > as will a TV set. > > > > > > > > The caddy is black, but is mechanically identical to the common > caddies > > > > used in CD-ROM drives of the vintage. > > > > > > > > I "explored" mine with a DNet cable and the > netkeys-handler. Another > > > > Amiga to the side provided the mouse and keyboard inputs over the > > > > "network". > > > > > > > > > It's based on the Amiga with a 68000 @ 7.14Mhz chip. Anyone > > > having extra > > > > > parts for this computer that they do not need contact me off list. > > > > > > > > Nope... no leftover parts, but a few sad memories. > > > > > > > > Did you get the startup disc with it? There's some > interesting stuff > > > > in the nooks and crannies, including a pair of files, one still pic > > > > and a sound file with the same name... you'll know them > when you find > > > > them (don't worry... they aren't pr0n or anything). > > > > > > > > -ethan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jun 8 17:41:56 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Got my Commodore CDTV today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Witchy > Sent: 06 June 2003 23:01 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Got my Commodore CDTV today > > > And best of all, the German seller called ace-x is still selling brand new > remotes and rodents for the CDTV, as well as new A4000T motherboards > (unpopulated) and stacks of Amiga floppy drives. I'd double-check his > username but my ISP is being shit to say the least :( I can't even get to > local UK sites ATM....is this the beginning of Demon's downfall? I was nearly right, his id is act-e :o) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Sun Jun 8 17:42:04 2003 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <20030608103422.GG1492@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: Looks like my first answer got to Jochen directly instead of to this list, so again: On 08-Jun-2003 Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.06.07 14:14 Thilo Schmidt wrote: > >> this Wednesday at Konrad-Zuse-Symposium in Karlsruhe, Germany. > [...] >> Z22 > Details? At the FH-Karlsruhe the last fully working Zuse Z22 is preserved. http://pl.attitu.de/zuse/Welcome.html (the homepage is quite old, but so is the Z22) And there was an article about this Z22 in c't magazine 20/2002. Last Wednesday the 4. Konrad-Zuse-Symposium was held there with various interesting talks. The agenda is somewhere on the net you should find it by googling for "Konrad Zuse Symposium". Most visitors left shortly after the talks (only 4 visitors plus the 2 operators where left in the computer-room), so there was plenty of time chatting with the operators and listening to the Z22. :-) Yes "listening", there is a speaker connected to the accumulator of the Z22, you can actually hear the computer compute. They even demonstrated a "music program" for it written in the sixties. If you want to visit the Z22 try to contact Helmut Kammerer or Hans Baumann. They are the operators since 1962 and probably know everything about the machine... bye Thilo From tim at tim-mann.org Sun Jun 8 17:42:12 2003 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: RX02 and catweasel (Was 8" drive hooked up to a PC) Message-ID: <20030608142727.59b7469f.tim@tim-mann.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > The data-portion of the RX02 is what a PeeCee FDC can't digest. It > *might* be possible to program an Amiga to digest RX02 disks (it also > lacks a dedicated FDC - it uses a 4096-bit shift register in the sound > chip to import the data, and (for MFM formats) miniterms applied by > the graphics co-processor to translate back and forth to plain binary > data). The Catweasel should be able to handle it, but, as has been > hashed out here before, you'd have to roll your own with it; the software > support is severely lacking compared to the capability of the hardware. If anyone is interested in reading RX02 format with a Catweasel, I've been down this road. My software for the Catweasel can read and write these disks. You can download it from my Web page. If you hate the Catweasel for some reason (I seem to draw hostility when I post about it here), you're also free to grab my software and adapt it to other hardware that can sample floppy drive output. -- Tim Mann http://www.tim-mann.org/ From ejchapel at attbi.com Sun Jun 8 17:47:00 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <20030608170001.51455.84017.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030608154100.00b1cb68@mail.attbi.com> >At 12:00 PM 6/8/2003 -0500, Jim Davis, your nimble fingers typed: >Sorry, Getting totally OT here, PC HEIDENS was considered the "SOUP >NAZI" of the reseller world. Found their way to bankrupcy last year.. Har >Har. >NO CHIPS FOR YOU! Your analogy here is spot on... I had to pick myself up after falling out my chair laughing. From aek at spies.com Sun Jun 8 18:12:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: RX02 and catweasel (Was 8" drive hooked up to a PC) Message-ID: <200306082304.h58N43FB002688@spies.com> I seem to draw hostility when I post about it here -- I don't understand that at all.. I've read hundreds of discs with it, and other that it being fairly slow, works pretty well. Getting your software working on a PCI Mac with the new version of the card, as well as adding hard-sectored and M2FM support is on my list to do. From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jun 8 18:15:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Today we had a bit of an open house, and although we did not have a lot of visitors, we were able to get our IBM System 80 going again, and more interestingly, out Plessey 6742. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jun 8 18:31:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen"'s message of "Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:57:25 +0200 (CEST)" References: Message-ID: <200306082314.h58NEF1b006672@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > > That was their SECOND location in Sunnyvale. The first was two blocks > > east, on the other side of Laurence Expr. MUCH smaller, but a larger > > selection of useful stuff (like ICs). > Er... their second? I always thought that was their first.. I mean > the one just off of Lawrence Expwy, righthand-side when coming off > the 237, going towards Central Expwy.. its right before where Arques > crosses Lawrence. Fry's Sunnyvale location has moved twice. The first was on the other side of Lawrence, approximately behind Coco's. It was as Al said, the sort of place you could go for ICs, connectors, Amiga RKMs, potato chips, soda pop, and aspirin. I'm guessing that the big difference is that Fry's now uses the grocery-store model in the parts aisles: rather than hire knowledgeable buyer(s) to select a good range of stock, sections of the parts aisles are rented to to distributors who supply the stock (and maybe even put it out on the shelves). So you get very narrow, single-vendor selections of some types of parts. That and, well, the target market is everyone (instead of just Sillycon Valley geeks) now that computers are just a special case of consumer electronics. -Frank McConnell From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Jun 8 18:44:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at "Jun 8, 3 10:35:04 pm" Message-ID: <200306082351.QAA08352@floodgap.com> > > Some background for people who don't live on the U.S. west coast or > > in Arizona, apart from Fry's being a cheap electronics reseller of > > notorious repute, many (all?) or their stores have "themes." > Yup. The old building of the Sunnyvale store (their first) was > a giant chip :) The new one is kinda themeless, methinks. The one in Burbank is a movie theme with a spaceship smashed into the front and lots of movie monster sculptures inside. The San Diego one is kind of dull. It used to be an Incredible Universe (if anyone remembers those), and they still use Incredible Universe delivery trucks presumably because Fry's is too cheap to repaint them. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- WWJD? JWRTFM. -------------------------------------------------------------- From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Sun Jun 8 18:45:01 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Interesting toy... "Gravis Phoenix"? In-Reply-To: <009101c32d57$9ba592b0$02c20b43@starfury> Message-ID: Here are some links that might help. http://www.input-drivers.com/drivers/0/280.htm Driver There were also lots of German and other language pages. I did a google search on "Gravis Phoenix" (including the quotes). Good luck and HTH. Greg -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ed Tillman Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 8:48 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Interesting toy... "Gravis Phoenix"? Clear DayJust picked up for pocket change at a yard sale: a Gravis Phoenix joystick/game pad combo (SN: 4794, Made in Canada, FCC ID: HYN1010A). Its old enough that it has, aside from the normal DB-15 game port adapter, a split unversal adapter for an AT or PS/2 keyboard port. The adapter is unique, I think, in the fact that it appears fully reversable to work with either. I plan to test it on my PC, but I wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of schematics, user manuals, drivers or installation packages. Any assist greatly appreciated... Cheers! Ed/San Antonio, Tx; USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 8 18:46:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: contents of latest HP load In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030608083532.3d1f58da@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 8, 3 08:35:32 am Message-ID: > >An oddball (to me) item was in there.... a 98041A disc interface. This > >appears to let an hp 98xx? calculator hook up to large HP disc drives? > > yeap. It's for the 9845. I have one but I've never tried to hook it up > and I'm not sure what drives it works with. Talking of things like that, has anyone ever seen the 'mass storage' unit for the 9830 calculator? Apparently, there was an interface for that machine that connected to a 14" demountable (?) hard disk unit. One drive could be shared between up to 4 9830s. That's one HP product I'd love to find out more about -tony From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 8 19:10:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX) References: <002801c32869$a07364e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001001c32e1a$bbab50e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Re: Sunday, June 01, 2003 The 6610 has been outplaced and moved, and, to a person who is decidedly a non-scrapper. To all those that responded, Thanks. John A. From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Jun 8 19:11:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <200306082351.QAA08352@floodgap.com> References: <200306082351.QAA08352@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <3EE3D0D8.8060002@charter.net> The two original Dallas stores were also Incredible Universe stores and the Fry trucks have only recently pulled the IU decals of the sides. You can still see the shadow of the emblems. The third Dallas area store just opened a couple of weeks ago in Irving. I haven't been over there yet. I was told it was in an old Home Depot. The Arlington store has no theme except big boring warehouse staffed with clueless, rude people. The Dallas store is all cows and Old West. Funny, if they had done their homework, they would have realized that the Arlington store that is much closer to Ft Worth and all of the Old West stuff should be western themed and Dallas something else. Cameron Kaiser wrote: >The San Diego one is kind of dull. It used to be an Incredible Universe >(if anyone remembers those), and they still use Incredible Universe delivery >trucks presumably because Fry's is too cheap to repaint them. > > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From stephenj at mail.ru Sun Jun 8 19:19:00 2003 From: stephenj at mail.ru (stephen johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Modern monitors for HP 9000 300 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: "Peter Brown" To: cctech@classiccmp.org Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 20:13:56 +0000 Subject: RE: Modern monitors for HP 9000 300 > > Hi All, > > Does anyone have a suggestion as to a color monitor to use with old HP 9000 > 300 series machines? > > The important number is the line rate of 25 kHz. Most modern multi-sync > models only start at 30 KHz so won't sync on to these older machines. > > Cheers > > Peter Brown > > you got 3 options, 1 - medium res arcade monitor. 2 - apple mac monitor - there are about 3 old models from early macintosh that use 25khz, but i dont know the model numbers so maybe a mac-head can give the details. 3 - nec multiscan 3d or maybe 4d, i cant remember exactly other than there was a few that could sync 15,25 & 31khz. good luck. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jun 8 19:21:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment References: Message-ID: <3EE3D1A4.883E6C4E@verizon.net> Yes, something tells me that $100-$150 is a little light for this lot. We'll see. Eric Michael Pike wrote: > > Woohoo! thanks! I might "get a little crazy" for this one :) > > mike > > >From: "Erik S. Klein" > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: > >Subject: RE: Osborne Computer Equipment > >Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 21:55:14 -0700 > > > >Ask and ye shall receive: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2734991210&category=1 > >247 > > > >I have absolutely nothing to do with the auction, the seller or eBay > >(other then my account). I just bumped into this listing after reading > >the email below. > > > >My best guess is that it'll close between $100 and $150 unless someone > >gets crazy. > > > >Best of luck! > > > > Erik Klein > > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > > The Vintage Computer Forum > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > >On Behalf Of Michael Pike > >Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 4:20 PM > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Osborne Computer Equipment > > > >Hello all... > > > >I am looking for old Osborne systems (one of each). I am looking for an > > > >Osborne 1 with the original disks and documentation. I used to have one > >as > >a teenager and have since lost it... > > > >I am interested in all of the Osborne series (Osborne 1, Vixen and > >Executive). The Osborne 1 is the most important as it was the first, > >but I > >am also interested in others as well. > > > >If you know of anyone who has one and will sell it, please email me.... > > > >I am very particular... it must have the books and original software. > > > >Thanks! > >Mike > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jun 8 19:25:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <3EE3D2A3.5683E353@verizon.net> Jeez, I don't know whether to avoid Fry's like the Plague, or to check it out, out of sheer curiosity. "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > > Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the > general > > public." > > Fry's has several "policies" in place (or used to, I haven't been in > that crap-hole for years) that fall under that category. > > They have shrink-wrap machines at every location and often re-wrap > returns to re-sell as new - even those reported as defective by the > customer returning them! (Hearsay from an ex-employee followed up by > observing stacks of items that, to me anyway, were obviously re-wrapped) > > They deliberately make returns difficult so that people who buy recycled > junk often won't bother to try getting their money back. If they do, > the item's usually just head back to the shelves anyway. (Again, told > to me by an ex-employee who I consider reliable) > > I remember purchasing RAM for an old P-III there once. The first SIMMS > were bad so I brought them back. They tossed them on a tester at the > returns desk (which took 45 minutes to get to) and told me "Yup, they're > bad." Not one, not two, not even three, but ALL FOUR that I purchased > were defective. The returns clerk put them in a large parts bin already > full of similar items and, I'm fairly certain, eventually put that bin > back in the stock area. I asked if I could do an exchange and test the > replacements before I left and was told that store policy prohibited > that. . . !!! > > I consider those things to be theft. > > The fact that I haven't met a Fry's employee who wasn't a drooling idiot > (my friend was obviously too bright for the place! :) and the fact that > the store always seemed to be out of the single thing you came in for > always bothered me as well. > > One fun thing to try, by the way: When the Fry's bonehead at the guarded > exit tries to search your bag, just walk on by. As it turns out they > can't legally search your property (which the bag is the moment you pay > for it) unless they have some reasonable belief that you are stealing. > If they don't have this and detain you it is the equivalent of false > arrest. > > I'm not alone, by the way: > > http://www.nonmundane.org/~dspisak/frys/frys.html > http://www.accesscom.com/~dave6592/ > http://billzhouse.com/rants/frys.html > http://www.doofus.org/frys/ ("What Fry's won't tell you is that you do > not have to let them inspect your bags. In fact, it is illegal for Fry's > to detain you to search your property without first charging you with > shoplifting.") > http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/05/cov_21feature2.html ("And > the horror stories are not just anecdotal. Most of Fry's Silicon Valley > stores have "unsatisfactory" records with the Santa Clara Better > Business Bureau for not responding to complaints -- although they do > appear to resolve complaints reported to the Santa Clara County district > attorney.") > > The list goes on, I just wish Fry's wouldn't. > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Mail List > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:40 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon > > Erik, > > Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the general > public." > > At 03:42 PM 6/7/03 -0700, you wrote: > >The CHM just opened this past Monday and now conducts tours of "visible > >storage" on Wednesday afternoons and every other Saturday (First and > >Third, I think). I've got some pictures from the grand opening up on > >Vintage-computer at http://www.vintage-computer.com/chmopenhouse.shtml. > > > >Fry's is to be avoided as is any organization that makes it's living > >effectively stealing from the general public. :) > > > >The Weird Stuff Warehouse is always fun, especially the "as-is" area > out > >back. > > > >The Tech museum in San Jose and the Metreon in San Francisco are worth > a > >visit. > > > >Enjoy your trip! > > > > Erik Klein > > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > > The Vintage Computer Forum > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > >On Behalf Of Eric Chomko > >Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:56 AM > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon > > > >Seriously folks, I am going on a two week trip to sunny California > later > >this month and trying to find a couple of interesting stops that might > >have something to do with classic computers. I'll be starting in San > >Francisco and ending up in Los Angeles. > > > >I plan a trip through Silicon Valley with a stop at NASA Ames. Anyone > >have their schedule for the classic computer museum? Any other "must > >see" places along the way? Does CHAC have a museum? Damn, just went to > >the CHAC web site. Last updated in 11-12-1997?!? Now THAT is classic!! > I > >just gave um an earful > >(politely). > > > >Anyway, any suggestions that would bore my wife and daughter but make > me > >happy is welcome (hey, they get DisneyLand and Hollywood!) From kempfj2 at rpi.edu Sun Jun 8 19:45:00 2003 From: kempfj2 at rpi.edu (Jesse Kempf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX) In-Reply-To: <001001c32e1a$bbab50e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <002801c32869$a07364e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001001c32e1a$bbab50e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20030608203915.5d3b52cb.kempfj2@rpi.edu> On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:04:43 -0400 "John Allain" wrote: > Re: Sunday, June 01, 2003 > > The 6610 has been outplaced and moved, and, > to a person who is decidedly a non-scrapper. > To all those that responded, Thanks. The VAX 6000-610 is in a good home, in the same air conditioned room as a VAXvector 6000-410 and a VAX 8530, and the hull of a VAX 11/780. I know we have DSSI disks around here...somewhere. It's going to be fun, as all of the other machines use SDI. Within a few weeks, the 6000-610 should be up as FooVAX.eclub.rpi.edu. -Jesse Kempf RPI Electronics Club Projects Coordinator From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jun 8 19:59:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c32e21$a394c3e0$947ba8c0@p933> > 7. Know what the competition in the area sells the same stuff for! Almost every retail chain worth their salt (Best Buy, Circuit City, Good Guys, et. al.) will price-match the competition. Bring in a Fry's ad and you can usually get the same deal with semi-competent English speaking sales staff in a more organized store that isn't organized crime. If people would stop shopping at Fry's we could finally be rid of those turkeys for good. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:14 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon >You guys are MUCH too easy on Fry's. > >Yes, they do suck rocks. Pretty much. Especially given how the prices, at least up here have gone up. When Fry's opened their Oregon store, they had really good prices, often better than the local hole in the wall PC shops. When DVD's started to hit mainstream, they had really good prices. Now overall, a trip to Best Buy is more worth my time. For us, it's a long trip, and the last time we went, which was a month or two ago, after over 9 months, the prices sucked! There are some simple rules though to make your buying experience better. 1. Know what prices should be on stuff! 2. Have a reason besides Fry's to be in the area (In our case, first we visit my Grandmother, and we finish it off by going to a resturant that we like). 3. Only buy new merchandise (or a least try to). 4. Only go when there is a bunch of stuff you're looking for. 5. Don't buy anything there that you might want to return (though I must admit, they were very easy to deal with the one time we returned something). 6. Don't get sucked in by their sales! Do they ever have enough sale HD's in stock? 7. Know what the competition in the area sells the same stuff for! In other words know what prices should be on stuff! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jun 8 20:19:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: Message-ID: <3EE3DF6E.43DE5E56@verizon.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > 150 purchases there and only had one problem with some SDRAM. And so > > what if they don't have the "legal" right to inspect your bag at the > > door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) then it's > > worth the few seconds wait. > > Maybe you don't mind the insinuation that you are guilty of something > until showing your receipt for someone to mark it with a highlighter > somehow magically admonishes you of any wrong-doing, but I do. > Costco (formerly Price Club) started the practice around here (DC area). They basically won't let you leave until your purchased inventory is checked. Most of the time the checker simply marks it without really looking. > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From passerm at umkc.edu Sun Jun 8 20:32:00 2003 From: passerm at umkc.edu (passerm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: OT: store exit searches In-Reply-To: <3EE3DF6E.43DE5E56@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7BA1CA70-9A19-11D7-8793-000393C3108A@umkc.edu> In the case of Costco and other "membership" stores, one could argue that by joining, one agrees to the practice. So there, I let them check my receipt on the way out. Anywhere else (e.g. Best Buy, CompUSA), no way. I've never had one press the issue--if I ever did, not sure I'd go through the money and trouble to file suit, but I certainly would return anything I had purchased that visit and not come back. Now if the stores wanted to post a sign saying I'm subject to search on leaving, I'd just not come in. But search me on the way out, after having purchased items, with no prior agreement? No way. In fact, I'm angrier at the sheep that let them than at the stores themselves. From mross666 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 8 20:33:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Web is just a fancy 3270 session Message-ID: >Message: 31 >From: "David Gari" >Subject: Re: Web is just a fancy 3270 session > >(quote) >I was just typing a message into a web forum, hit the post reply button, >and while I am waiting I realize, SHEESH, this is just an graphical upgrade >of the 3270 CICS I was running 20 years ago. Except not as fast. >(end quote) > >There are other differences: > >No viri. Christmas tree? Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jun 8 20:41:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: New aquisitions References: <000001c32ded$5848f020$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <3EE3E487.C477292C@verizon.net> "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > Yesterday I drove about 250 miles (round trip) to get a small truckload > of old computers and parts. The partial list is below: > [...] > > 3 S-100 computers Which ones? > 1 tall rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives and 1 Hard Drive > 1 shorter rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives but no cards > 1 shorter rackmount with 1 N* 5.25" and several cards > About 6-10 loose S-100 cards including IMS 8K and 4K RAM, a partial > populated 86/87 card and a few others. > > Other machines Which ones? > > 1 Heathkit H-19 terminal in good condition I used to own an H-19. Eric > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Jun 8 20:48:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <3EE3DF6E.43DE5E56@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3EE3E625.9080504@eoni.com> How in the hell does it deter shoplifting? At best, it indicates that the store management doesn't trust their 'cashiers' to actually charge you for what they put in the bag. If they want to "inspect" my purchases, they can arrest me and get a warrant. (Which ain't likely to happen because I refuse to patronize either company. Better prices and service mail-order.) Jim >>On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: >> >> >> >>>And so what if they don't have the "legal" right to inspect your bag at the door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) then it's worth the few seconds wait. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 8 20:53:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32e21$a394c3e0$947ba8c0@p933> References: <000001c32e21$a394c3e0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: > > 7. Know what the competition in the area sells the same stuff for! > >Almost every retail chain worth their salt (Best Buy, Circuit City, Good >Guys, et. al.) will price-match the competition. Bring in a Fry's ad >and you can usually get the same deal with semi-competent English >speaking sales staff in a more organized store that isn't organized >crime. Now there is a good bit of advice! I'd not thought about that! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 8 21:44:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:13 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE3F348.8050703@mdrconsult.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hmm... must be my cute appearance and sweet voice then, because I > was NEVER treated badly @ Fry's. And jesus, at one point my friends > just drove to Fry's rather than my place if they were looking for me, > so I *did* spend some time there :) > > Basically... everyone there wearing a Fry's badge is clueless. That > is a fact. They're paid to walk around and take your cash, but not > anything else. Get your facts right BEFORE walking in, or you'll > loose. Nah, that ain't it. My voice is trashed from yelling over unbaffled diesels, and my appearance often frightens young children, but I do just fine in Fry's. I've shopped Fry's in Austin and Dallas Texas, and in Phoenix (Tempe, really) AZ, and haven't ever had a problem. I've gotten a couple of bad components, but overall, no worse than the local screwdriver shops. I've bought quite a few of their open-box specials and never gotten a dud. Maybe it's a California thing? I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I bill in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do with/to/about a computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr sales kid to know more than I do? Doc From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Jun 8 22:00:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All the Fry's in the area are "Themed" too. Fremont - Mad Scientist power equipment (including a large VanDeGraph generator) San Jose, Brokaw - Mayan Frys San Jose, Hamilton - Egyptian Fry's Sunnyvale - Museum Frys (was big IC chip frys (was "looks like a normal building)) Mountain View - Old West / Miner 49er Frys The Sacramento Fry's Used to be an "Incredible Universe" They had a big jumbotron just in the front door and what looked like a dance floor.. Are any of the other Fry's themed? From ericj at speakeasy.org Sun Jun 8 22:06:00 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Modern monitors for HP 9000 300 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Peter Brown wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion as to a color monitor to use with old HP 9000 > 300 series machines? > > The important number is the line rate of 25 kHz. Most modern multi-sync > models only start at 30 KHz so won't sync on to these older machines. > I don't have the specs to compare with your line rate, but I have a 380 with A1416A framebuffer that works fine with an SGI GDM-17E21. I believe I've also used it with a Sony GDM-17SE1. If you're near Seattle or can otherwise pick it up, I have a working HP 98789A you're welcome to. From ericj at speakeasy.org Sun Jun 8 22:06:13 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Modern monitors for HP 9000 300 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Peter Brown wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion as to a color monitor to use with old HP 9000 > 300 series machines? > > The important number is the line rate of 25 kHz. Most modern multi-sync > models only start at 30 KHz so won't sync on to these older machines. > I don't have the specs to compare with your line rate, but I have a 380 with A1416A framebuffer that works fine with an SGI GDM-17E21. I believe I've also used it with a Sony GDM-17SE1. If you're near Seattle or can otherwise pick it up, I have a working HP 98789A you're welcome to. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jun 8 22:36:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: New aquisitions In-Reply-To: <3EE3E487.C477292C@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c32e37$934a87c0$947ba8c0@p933> > Which ones? The three computers seem to be the equivalent of today's generic you-build-ems. The cases are unmarked. The motherboards are fairly standard issue from the day (Godbout/Compupro or other generic x-slot S-100 boards). In a way, I wish they were recognizable items like Vector, Imsai or whatever, but this way is more exciting, I guess. The rest of the hardware, including the cards and drives, will be examined as I find time. I've been house-hunting lately and free time is at even more of a premium then usual (picture getting up at 6:30, driving 125+ miles, loading several hundred pounds of gear, driving back, unloading and then packing the baby and pregnant wife in the car for a fun-filled day of looking at other peoples homes!) I'm hoping everything settles out in the next few months, but by then I'll have another baby in the house (hopefully a new house!) and the feces will once again hit the wind-maker. Meanwhile, I'm not going to be able to keep all of this stuff so I do need to figure out what's there and what I do keep then disseminate the rest of the stuff as needed. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Chomko Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 6:36 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: New aquisitions "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > Yesterday I drove about 250 miles (round trip) to get a small truckload > of old computers and parts. The partial list is below: > [...] > > 3 S-100 computers Which ones? > 1 tall rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives and 1 Hard Drive > 1 shorter rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives but no cards > 1 shorter rackmount with 1 N* 5.25" and several cards > About 6-10 loose S-100 cards including IMS 8K and 4K RAM, a partial > populated 86/87 card and a few others. > > Other machines Which ones? > > 1 Heathkit H-19 terminal in good condition I used to own an H-19. Eric > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum From marvin at rain.org Sun Jun 8 22:38:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <3EE3F348.8050703@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3EE3FFEA.E0D315B7@rain.org> Doc wrote: > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > Basically... everyone there wearing a Fry's badge is clueless. That > > is a fact. They're paid to walk around and take your cash, but not > > anything else. Get your facts right BEFORE walking in, or you'll > > loose. > > > I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I bill > in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do with/to/about a > computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr sales kid to know more than I do? There was an article in Forbes a few years ago about Frys. At that time, they basically did not hire knowledgeable help because they felt their customers would know more than they did. Frys also had what was called the H&H factor, Hoops and Hurdles, when having to return anything. I went with a friend of mine to return a bad motherboard, and we were in the damn place for about 3 hours. I *WILL NOT* buy anything there that stands a chance of being bad when I buy it and having to be returned. On the other hand, I have never had a problem buying passive components or hardware there. From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 8 23:26:01 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: NEC APC III References: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <004301c32e3e$a3796d80$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> My system likewise lacks a keyboard, If anyone has some info on how I might connect one up or otherwise comunicate with one it i'd be glad to hear it. I wonder if there are some old systems sitting around gathering dust in the back of some old chemist then?? I might make some enquiries in that direction and see whatg happens..... Peter T. > I have a couple of them without keyboards so I can't do much with them. > It's MS-DOS based, but not PC compatible. 8Mhz 8086, > 640x400 color display. Mine have 720KB 5.25" floppy drives and 10MB hard > disks. They did release a PC emulator card for them, but I don't think it > worked that well. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 8 23:33:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE3FFEA.E0D315B7@rain.org> References: <3EE3F348.8050703@mdrconsult.com> <3EE3FFEA.E0D315B7@rain.org> Message-ID: <3EE40CDA.3070104@mdrconsult.com> Marvin Johnston wrote: > Frys also had what was called the H&H factor, Hoops and Hurdles, when > having to return anything. I went with a friend of mine to return a bad > motherboard, and we were in the damn place for about 3 hours. I *WILL > NOT* buy anything there that stands a chance of being bad when I buy it > and having to be returned. On the other hand, I have never had a problem > buying passive components or hardware there. I keep hearing about that, and I've frankly never seen it. The three times I've returned goods there, it took less than 20 minutes to get the replacement approved. Once in Tempe and twice in Austin. Of course, I never throw away any packaging or receipts until I know I'm keeping the item, at least 30 days on new parts. Doc From drido at optushome.com.au Sun Jun 8 23:55:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: NEC APC III In-Reply-To: <004301c32e3e$a3796d80$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> References: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030609145033.01132874@mail.optushome.com.au> At 02:21 PM 6/9/03 +1000, you wrote: >My system likewise lacks a keyboard, If anyone has some info on how I might >connect one up or otherwise comunicate with one it i'd be glad to hear it. I >wonder if there are some old systems sitting around gathering dust in the >back of some old chemist then?? I might make some enquiries in that >direction and see whatg happens..... I also have an NEC terminal that is based on the APC III, bought it to get the keyboard for my APC IIIs. The keyboard from the terminal uses different character codes though. The keyboard is recognised by the APC III, but the characters don't match the keys pressed. The keyboard for my NEC 9821 has the same connector, but I haven't been game to try plugging it in. From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Mon Jun 9 00:24:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: NEC APC III References: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> <3.0.3.32.20030609145033.01132874@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <016301c32e46$b7f6d060$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Thats definatly worth noting, I'll have to make sure I get the correct Keyboard for the system then..... Peter T. > At 02:21 PM 6/9/03 +1000, you wrote: > >My system likewise lacks a keyboard, If anyone has some info on how I might > >connect one up or otherwise comunicate with one it i'd be glad to hear it. I > >wonder if there are some old systems sitting around gathering dust in the > >back of some old chemist then?? I might make some enquiries in that > >direction and see whatg happens..... > > I also have an NEC terminal that is based on the APC III, bought it to get > the keyboard for my APC IIIs. The keyboard from the terminal uses > different character codes though. The keyboard is recognised by the APC > III, but the characters don't match the keys pressed. > > The keyboard for my NEC 9821 has the same connector, but I haven't been > game to try plugging it in. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Jun 9 00:33:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000a01c32e47$fb188630$7739cd18@D73KSM11> > On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > 150 purchases there and only had one problem with some > SDRAM. And so > > what if they don't have the "legal" right to inspect your > bag at the > > door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) > then it's > > worth the few seconds wait. > > Maybe you don't mind the insinuation that you are guilty of > something until showing your receipt for someone to mark it > with a highlighter somehow magically admonishes you of any > wrong-doing, but I do. > I don't see how it can be an insinuation of anything when they do it to everyone. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Jun 9 00:40:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE3E625.9080504@eoni.com> Message-ID: <000b01c32e49$01b0f350$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Unaccustomed as I am to backwards threads . . . it deters just like "the club" stops car thefts. Anyone can beat the club who wants too (you can saw through the steering wheel in 15 seconds and remove it), but why bother when the next car over doesn't have one? Even a small increment of greater risk will send the thief to an easier target. And, if you don't shop there, why in the hell do you care? > > How in the hell does it deter shoplifting? At best, it > indicates that > the store management doesn't trust their 'cashiers' to > actually charge > you for what they put in the bag. If they want to "inspect" my > purchases, they can arrest me and get a warrant. (Which ain't > likely to > happen because I refuse to patronize either company. Better > prices and > service mail-order.) > > Jim > > > >>On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>And so what if they don't have the "legal" right to > inspect your bag > >>>at the door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) > >>>then it's worth the few seconds wait. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Jun 9 00:43:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE40CDA.3070104@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <000c01c32e49$5c21dfc0$7739cd18@D73KSM11> > Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Frys also had what was called the H&H factor, Hoops and > Hurdles, when > > having to return anything. I went with a friend of mine to return a > > bad motherboard, and we were in the damn place for about 3 hours. I > > *WILL > > NOT* buy anything there that stands a chance of being bad > when I buy it > > and having to be returned. On the other hand, I have never > had a problem > > buying passive components or hardware there. > > I keep hearing about that, and I've frankly never seen it. > The three > times I've returned goods there, it took less than 20 minutes > to get the > replacement approved. Once in Tempe and twice in Austin. > > Of course, I never throw away any packaging or receipts > until I know > I'm keeping the item, at least 30 days on new parts. > > Doc > I use the Burbank Fry's and have had 3-4 returns. Never longer than 15 minutes. But, I'm extremely charming. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jun 9 00:51:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Modern monitors for HP 9000 300 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, stephen johnston wrote: > From: "Peter Brown" > > > Does anyone have a suggestion as to a color monitor to use with old HP > > 9000 300 series machines? > > > > The important number is the line rate of 25 kHz. Most modern > > multi-sync models only start at 30 KHz so won't sync on to these older > > machines. > > you got 3 options, > > 1 - medium res arcade monitor. > > 2 - apple mac monitor - there are about 3 old models from early > macintosh that use 25khz, but i dont know the model numbers so maybe > a mac-head can give the details. > > 3 - nec multiscan 3d or maybe 4d, i cant remember exactly other than > there was a few that could sync 15,25 & 31khz. > > good luck. Good luck indeed on the NEC 3D series monitors... Every unit I've tested to date seems to have major problems due to it's age. It seems like NEC really cut some corners with those monitors. It probably is possible to repair them, and service manuals might even still be available from NEC. I think the original Multisync series (pre 2/3/4, etc series) might also be able to sync to very low rates. Just in case it helps, the 3D is a 14", while the 4D is a 16". -Toth From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 9 01:35:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >All the Fry's in the area are "Themed" too. > >Fremont - Mad Scientist power equipment (including a large VanDeGraph generator) >San Jose, Brokaw - Mayan Frys >San Jose, Hamilton - Egyptian Fry's >Sunnyvale - Museum Frys (was big IC chip frys (was "looks like a normal building)) >Mountain View - Old West / Miner 49er Frys > >The Sacramento Fry's Used to be an "Incredible Universe" They had a big jumbotron just >in the front door and what looked like a dance floor.. > >Are any of the other Fry's themed? The Wilsonville, OR Fry's is also an ex-"Incredible Universe", but I wouldn't call it themed. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Jun 9 01:43:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c32e51$b1e04700$7739cd18@D73KSM11> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 11:31 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon > > > >All the Fry's in the area are "Themed" too. > > > >Fremont - Mad Scientist power equipment (including a large > VanDeGraph > >generator) San Jose, Brokaw - Mayan Frys San Jose, Hamilton > - Egyptian > >Fry's Sunnyvale - Museum Frys (was big IC chip frys (was > "looks like a > >normal building)) Mountain View - Old West / Miner 49er Frys > > > >The Sacramento Fry's Used to be an "Incredible Universe" They had a > >big jumbotron just in the front door and what looked like a dance > >floor.. > > > >Are any of the other Fry's themed? > > The Wilsonville, OR Fry's is also an ex-"Incredible > Universe", but I wouldn't call it themed. > > Zane > Burbank is sort of a B-Science fiction movie theme - complete with a saucer crashed halfway into the store above the front enterance, and little green men exiting the ship on the inside. Woodland Hills is "Alice is Wonderland." Manhattan Beach is Tahitian. -W From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Mon Jun 9 06:14:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: NEC APC III References: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <011201c32e77$95516030$0100a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Ido" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:00 AM Subject: Re: NEC APC III > At 09:04 PM 6/8/03 +1000, you wrote: > >Hi all, > > > > Been doing some more scrounging from the curbside, found an NEC APC > >III. I thought at first it was just an XT style computer, but closer > >inspection showed it was at least a little more unusual than that. The whole > >inside of the system is filled up with descrete component boards pluged > into a > >coman bus system. I asume this is memory expansion, HDD and FDD drive. It was > >significantly diferant from the standard XT hardware that I considered it was > >at least worth a second look. If some one could give me some more info or > >direct me to some long forgoten site with details of this machine I would > >apreciate it. Otherwise I'll just "throw it on the pile" and keep it around > >for good looks...... > > > > Peter T. > > I have a couple of them without keyboards so I can't do much with them. > It's MS-DOS based, but not PC compatible. 8Mhz 8086, > 640x400 color display. Mine have 720KB 5.25" floppy drives and 10MB hard > disks. They did release a PC emulator card for them, but I don't think it > worked that well. > > Here in Australia they were quite popular is pharamacies. I think some > company supplied a complete system consisting of the APC III, 2 printers > and the pharamacy software preloaded. From memory there was an early > version of autocad that supported it's hires display. > > I think it's related to the PC9801 (only sold in Japan). I have a 75Mhz > Pentium based NEC 9821 and it appears to have the same slots as the APC III. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Mon Jun 9 06:20:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: NEC APC III References: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> <004301c32e3e$a3796d80$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <011501c32e78$6ca39940$0100a8c0@athlon> Peter et al-- I'll have a nose around- used to be an awful lot of APC-IIIs here- the Telecom NZ fixed network is NEAX based (a line in electronic switches from NEC) and the APC-IIIs were all over the place in the early days (15 plus years ago) in use as terminals. But it's only recently the last of them have been tossed out (probably still the odd one in service in reality!) in favor of standard pc hardware. Those in use here all had CGA screens and either dual floppies or (marvel of marvels!) 10/20Mb HDDs-- still probably some docs about but only ever saw operating handbooks. Fairly sure I know where there is still at least one keyboard---maybe two.... Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ PS- Guess what was supplied for use as a portable terminal-the 9801--used to be lots of them about as well- I have one or two salted away-complete with cassette tape units etc. DB ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter tremewen" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: Re: NEC APC III > My system likewise lacks a keyboard, If anyone has some info on how I might > connect one up or otherwise comunicate with one it i'd be glad to hear it. I > wonder if there are some old systems sitting around gathering dust in the > back of some old chemist then?? I might make some enquiries in that > direction and see whatg happens..... > > Peter T. > > > I have a couple of them without keyboards so I can't do much with them. > > It's MS-DOS based, but not PC compatible. 8Mhz 8086, > > 640x400 color display. Mine have 720KB 5.25" floppy drives and 10MB hard > > disks. They did release a PC emulator card for them, but I don't think it > > worked that well. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Mon Jun 9 06:41:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: contents of latest HP load References: <3.0.6.16.20030608083532.3d1f58da@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <011c01c32e7b$67cb2ed0$0100a8c0@athlon> The 98041A interface was used to allow the 9845 to interface to the following drives (this list may not be exhaustive) -- 7905, 7906, 7920, 7925 and the 7970E Option 826 Tape drive. You need to have the Mass Storage ROM in the 9845 to use any of them. HPIB drives (eg the 9895) used the 98034 interface. Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Cc: "Jay West" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 8:35 AM Subject: Re: contents of latest HP load > At 07:02 PM 6/7/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >An oddball (to me) item was in there.... a 98041A disc interface. This > >appears to let an hp 98xx? calculator hook up to large HP disc drives? > > yeap. It's for the 9845. I have one but I've never tried to hook it up > and I'm not sure what drives it works with. > > NICE HAUL! > > BTW I've been meaning to write you but I've been BUSY. I picked up > several of the 7970E tape drives. They all say 45 IPS inside and all but > one are marked "option 052/151", the other one is marked "option 183". It > was one of a pair that was mounted in one cabinent and run off of a single > set of controller cards with some jumper cables connecting the two drives. > > Joe > > > > > >Time to take a week off work perhaps and clean & test & play :) > > > >Jay West From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Mon Jun 9 08:01:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: NEC APC III References: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> <004301c32e3e$a3796d80$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> <011501c32e78$6ca39940$0100a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <022101c32e86$90f9ef20$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Thanks, I'd be very interested in a keyboard and further info in the form of data..... Please keep me posted.... Peter T. > Peter et al-- > I'll have a nose around- used to be an awful lot of APC-IIIs here- the > Telecom NZ fixed network is NEAX based (a line in electronic switches from > NEC) and the APC-IIIs were all over the place in the early days (15 plus > years ago) in use as terminals. But it's only recently the last of them have > been tossed out (probably still the odd one in service in reality!) in favor > of standard pc hardware. Those in use here all had CGA screens and either > dual floppies or (marvel of marvels!) 10/20Mb HDDs-- still probably some > docs about but only ever saw operating handbooks. Fairly sure I know where > there is still at least one keyboard---maybe two.... > > Dave Brown > Christchurch, NZ > > PS- Guess what was supplied for use as a portable terminal-the 9801--used to > be lots of them about as well- I have one or two salted away-complete with > cassette tape units etc. > DB From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jun 9 08:13:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: In Focus Systems Macintosh II LCD panel box Message-ID: <20030609130831.57937.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Just came across a little 5x5x1" high metal box with the following connectors on it: 15-pin connector labelled "to computer" 15-pin connector labelled "to monitor" 15-pin high-density connector labelled "to LCD panel" connectors for "power in" and "power out" It's badged as being made by In Focus Systems, "For Macintosh II" and model "A-35C". Before I just trace it inside to see what it does I thought I'd ask here about it - maybe someone knows exactly what it is. Presumably some sort of frequency convertor unit; any ideas what LCD panel connected to it and the specs of it? I was hoping it would actually contain some sort of buffer memory inside (and might come in handy for something else with a bit of hacking), but it seems not. Chips inside are standard logic / timers, a couple of 8-pin "7660CPA" chips (whatever those do), and analogue sections for R, G and B. Chip dates are all within 1990. May still prove useful for something one day anyway! cheers Jules From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jun 9 08:35:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: In Focus Systems Macintosh II LCD panel box Message-ID: >Just came across a little 5x5x1" high metal box with the following connectors >on it: > > 15-pin connector labelled "to computer" > 15-pin connector labelled "to monitor" > 15-pin high-density connector labelled "to LCD panel" > connectors for "power in" and "power out" > >It's badged as being made by In Focus Systems, "For Macintosh II" and model >"A-35C". Focus Systems makes scan converters to go from VGA or RGB to an assortment of things. IIRC, one of their products was a translucent LCD panel that you put on an overhead projector for showing the image of your computer screen. This sounds very much like the scan converter box for that LCD panel. I would not at all be surprised if it is really just a fancy RGB to VGA converter and can probably be plugged into any VGA monitor. -chris From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Jun 9 11:40:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 books, IPC Peripherals CD changer.... References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3EE4B722.8E6F1BB9@comcast.net> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > Yeah, I have an NEC (?) internal IDE 4 disc changer. Pretty neat... > > The only major issue I have with the NEC changers I have is that their > audio quality is extremely poor. I don't remember the specs off the top of > my head, but I think their range is something like 1.5KHz-10KHz.... Well, I'm not too worried about audio quality from the NEC changer. I only use it for data discs, like in a library... > > Well, the whole thing itself is about 4"Hx7"Wx13"D... Across the top of > > the face is the headphone jack, volume knob, 7 buttons in a row (for > > each disc) then the status light. Below that is the tray to load the > > discs. And the tray is wider than your standard CD tray... With this > > faceplate on it, my only choice is to keep it as an external drive. > > That drive sounds very similar in design to the NEC drives I have. I have > to wonder if it isn't a rebadged or OEM drive? Does it use a regular > external SCSI drive chassis, or is it a custom case? The NEC and Pioneer > changers I have are all custom cases. > > -Toth Well from the back it looks like a regular chassis, but the front plate is definitely a custom job. I'll see if I can dig up a camera tomorrow for some pictures... And I'll see if I have time today to crack it open... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Jun 9 11:42:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 123 books, IPC Peripherals CD changer.... References: <20030606133818.49675.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EE4B76E.93DF3813@comcast.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > What does the unit look like? My NEC changers have a row of 7 buttons > > > across the front for loading each of the 7 discs, > > > -Toth > > I have one of these... big external case... no magazine. One of these > days, I'm going to stick it on my Sun server as an extra 6GB of archival > storage access. > > > Yeah, I have an NEC (?) internal IDE 4 disc changer. Pretty neat... > > Well, the whole thing itself is about 4"Hx7"Wx13"D... > > 7" wide and internal? I also have an interal NEC 4-disc changer (a "4x4") > that has seen little use... it's not that fast anymore, and Windows > wants to query each disc at startup. :-P > > -ethan Ooop, sorry about the confusion there. The NEC 4 disc I have is the same size as a regular internal CD drive. The IPC 7 disc external changer is what I gave the dimensions for. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 12:23:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > You guys are MUCH too easy on Fry's. > > > > Yes, they do suck rocks. > NO NO NO! > > With the right attitude while going in there, it can be a blast! ...induced with the right kind of drugs I suppose. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 12:27:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Fry's has a problem with platinum cards? (was: goin to CA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > 'cos they, smart as they are, will assume there is no way you, at > > > your age, could possibly have one, legally. :) > > > > at MY age?? > Well, when I went there. And, I look young, that didnt help. > > Fortunately, my bank is right across the street there, so a quick > call and their branch manager came in to Fry's, suggesting they > very quickly drop it and offer their apologies to their (bank's) > premier customer ;) Whee! > > They DID get the hint, by the way, I got the item for free, and > never had trouble thereafter. And this made you happy? I would sue them for the time they stole from me plus my bank manager's time, not to mention the public embarassment they caused. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jun 9 12:45:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: In Focus Systems Macintosh II LCD panel box In-Reply-To: <20030609130831.57937.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030609104343.02828d00@mail.zipcon.net> InFocus systems makes projectors and also LCD display panels that sit on overhead projectors. The box you have is what connected one of their LCD overhead projectors to a Mac-II (or newer) series machine @ 640x480 resolution... At 02:08 PM 6/9/03 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >Just came across a little 5x5x1" high metal box with the following connectors >on it: > > 15-pin connector labelled "to computer" > 15-pin connector labelled "to monitor" > 15-pin high-density connector labelled "to LCD panel" > connectors for "power in" and "power out" > >It's badged as being made by In Focus Systems, "For Macintosh II" and model >"A-35C". > >Before I just trace it inside to see what it does I thought I'd ask here about >it - maybe someone knows exactly what it is. Presumably some sort of frequency >convertor unit; any ideas what LCD panel connected to it and the specs of >it? I >was hoping it would actually contain some sort of buffer memory inside (and >might come in handy for something else with a bit of hacking), but it seems >not. Chips inside are standard logic / timers, a couple of 8-pin "7660CPA" >chips (whatever those do), and analogue sections for R, G and B. Chip >dates are >all within 1990. > >May still prove useful for something one day anyway! > >cheers > >Jules From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Jun 9 12:45:38 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Final 'Garage Sale' listing updates Message-ID: <20030609104019.K70417@agora.rdrop.com> www.rdrop.com/~jimw -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 9 12:48:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Message-ID: <200306091743.KAA24357@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Jim Davis wrote: > >> You will be treated like crap at all levels of any transaction at fry's. >> Expect, No, assume that >> any advertised product will be out of stock, that the pepsi machine >> will of be of more help >> then the sailsdroids. Don't even think about using a check, unless you >> have about an hour or >> two to wait ( I AM NOT KIDDING ), Check all the packages, as frys simply >> returns >> defective and returned products to the shelves. Returns? Plan on >> spending the day. >> Need I say more? > >And that's on a GOOD day!!! > Hi First, one needs to realize that Fry's is a discount store. They do everything as cheap as they can. They do not hire sales people with computer knowledge. I don't expect them to answer any question more complicated than "where is such-an-such?". They are require, now, by law to mark items that have been returned as such. Most items that have been returned are working and have nothing wrong with them. They do not have in store personal that can test everything in the store. I often buy return items when on sale. I expect to test them when I get them. I have only had one bad item that was re-wrapped. They replaced it without question( they may have put it back on the shelf ). It did take time standing in line. I guess it is mostly expectations. One can often find most any of their items cheaper, someplace else. Unless you happen to be at that someplace else, it isn't worth the gas to look for it. As for people ripping them off, their biggest problem has and always will be with the store personal. Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jun 9 13:03:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: In Focus Systems Macintosh II LCD panel box Message-ID: <20030609175841.13101.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> > Focus Systems makes scan converters to go from VGA or RGB to an > assortment of things. IIRC, one of their products was a translucent LCD > panel that you put on an overhead projector for showing the image of your > computer screen. > > This sounds very much like the scan converter box for that LCD panel. I > would not at all be surprised if it is really just a fancy RGB to VGA > converter and can probably be plugged into any VGA monitor. Thanks - I wondered whether that was actually VGA output too. I don't know what frequencies the Mac II outputs - but I was hoping the box might buffer each line of video and do something intelligent with it before spitting it out to the LCD connector, but it doesn't look like it given the chips that are in there. Still, I do have a Mac II somewhere so might hang onto it as-is, or failing that the metal case might come in handy and as interface box for something! cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 13:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Today we had a bit of an open house, and although we did not have a lot > of visitors, we were able to get our IBM System 80 going again, and > more interestingly, out Plessey 6742. Hey Merle. I'd venture to guess that if you posted about your open house here, a lot more people might've attended. ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 13:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE3D2A3.5683E353@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > Jeez, I don't know whether to avoid Fry's like the Plague, or to check > it out, out of sheer curiosity. Wear a condomn, just in case... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 13:19:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE3F348.8050703@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I bill > in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do with/to/about a > computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr sales kid to know more than I do? Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more than, "I don't know". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 13:23:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE40CDA.3070104@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > I keep hearing about that, and I've frankly never seen it. The three > times I've returned goods there, it took less than 20 minutes to get the > replacement approved. Once in Tempe and twice in Austin. What a privelege. In most any other store, you return the item and get a new one in a few minutes, and there's no "approval" process. Ok, I'm done saying bad things about Fry's now. If it isn't obvious by now that they suck, you haven't been paying attention. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 13:24:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000a01c32e47$fb188630$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Maybe you don't mind the insinuation that you are guilty of > > something until showing your receipt for someone to mark it > > with a highlighter somehow magically admonishes you of any > > wrong-doing, but I do. > > > I don't see how it can be an insinuation of anything when they do it to > everyone. That somehow makes it OK? I don't follow that logic at all :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 13:28:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: NEC APC III In-Reply-To: <011501c32e78$6ca39940$0100a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Dave Brown wrote: > I'll have a nose around- used to be an awful lot of APC-IIIs here- the > Telecom NZ fixed network is NEAX based (a line in electronic switches from > NEC) and the APC-IIIs were all over the place in the early days (15 plus > years ago) in use as terminals. But it's only recently the last of them have That's how I got my APC III. It was sitting unused in the telecom equipment room of the juvenile detention center in the next county over. They had several NEAX switches installed throughout the county. I asked about it and was told it was broken and could take it. It turned out the contrast was turned all the way down. It's a very solid CP/M-86 machine. I used it to successfully copy over some files from 8" floppy to a PC over the serial port using PIP. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 9 13:34:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE4D21D.5070200@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > >> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I bill >>in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do with/to/about a >>computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr sales kid to know more than I do? > > > Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more than, > "I don't know". Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but instead of admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." AKA CompUSA sales people. Those idjits are at least as clueless as Fry's help, but seem to be fundamentally incapable of admitting it. They're kids, man. They're working for dirt wages, and they get less training time than a janitor. And I've found, at least at Fry's, that if I'm half nice to them, they'll try really hard to find somebody who does have an answer. Doc From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 9 14:03:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE4D21D.5070200@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > >> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I bill > >>in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do with/to/about a > >>computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr sales kid to know more than I do? > > > > > > Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more than, > > "I don't know". > > Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but instead of > admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." When the question is, "Do you have any more of these?" or "Where is the ?" (you know, simple stuff like that) then the answer "I don't know" is not what I would consider "helpful". They may as well not even bother coming onto the sales floor. > AKA CompUSA sales people. Those idjits are at least as clueless as > Fry's help, but seem to be fundamentally incapable of admitting it. I don't shop there either so I wouldn't know. > They're kids, man. They're working for dirt wages, and they get less > training time than a janitor. And I've found, at least at Fry's, that if > I'm half nice to them, they'll try really hard to find somebody who does > have an answer. My mood turns sour only after asking them for help. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 9 14:09:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules Message-ID: <20030609190414.6505.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Both of these are likely to be labelled "memory detection". I have seen both appear in module listings (and, from reports, in the real world) in slot B10 of a PDP-8/i. I keep entertaining delusions that I will be able to upgrade my -8/i to 8K someday. This module is the only one that I cannot borrow from another machine or my pile of spare parts. ISTR the M702 contains a delay line and some buffering TTL. I'm told that the M720 contains some TTL chips and a few transistors. My goal is to understand them well enough to fabricate a substitute, either from scratch, or by co-opting some blank spaces near slot B10 and using DEC M-series modules. Thanks, -ethan From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Jun 9 14:35:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: FS: Cyrix chips Message-ID: I remember seeing a thread on here a month or two ago about someone wanting a Cyrix Fastmath and/or a Cyrix 486 upgrade for a 386 socket. I grabbed a 33MHz and 40MHz pair of each, on 386 motherboard. If anyone's interested, I'm asking $5 each board plus shipping. I'm in West Lafayette, IN. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jun 9 14:47:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Needed: DEC MicroRSX V4.x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone have a copy of MicroRSX V4.x which I can install on a MicroPDP-11/53 ? I have a very old version (label says V1 !) but although it will install on the /53, it freezes after the final reboot, probably when it hits some feature specific to the /53. Cheers, Fred From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 9 16:27:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again Message-ID: <200306092122.OAA24612@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" > >I have recently bought colour tape for the 33. > >The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the >paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero >pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice >candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. >Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to >happen?' > >Confused Regards > >-Tore > Hi I've seen this happen to others but mine did just the opposite. The rubber turned to brittle stuff and crumbled. I guess the issues is that like some plastics, rubber just doesn't last. I think the stick on feet idea is the best home remedy. Dwight From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 9 16:49:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules Message-ID: <200306092146.h59LkbgS026269@spies.com> I just emailed you the M720 schem. It was in the modules schematics book for the PDP-12 (Vol 4) From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 9 17:54:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: [Fwd: [Siglinux] Symbolics Lisp machine to a good home] Message-ID: <3EE50EF6.5080907@mdrconsult.com> From a local SIG list. I am not affiliated yadda yadda Doc -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Siglinux] Symbolics Lisp machine to a good home Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:21:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Reply-To: SIGLinux GNU/Linux Users Group To: siglinux@utacm.org Anyone want a symbolics lisp machine. It worked as of 6 months ago. I don't have any time to invest at the moment to it, So, I'm looking for a good home for it. It's free, but you have to come get it. I live in ft. worth. Bring many people with you. namaste, Mark _______________________________________________ Siglinux mailing list Siglinux@utacm.org http://www.utacm.org/mailman/listinfo/siglinux From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 9 18:52:01 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Teletype: Problems again In-Reply-To: <200306092122.OAA24612@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030609234736.NFHT28839.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> >The printer has a black substance that pushes the printhead towards the >paper. This has dissolved into an oily-like thing, and there is zero >pressure for the head against the paper. I will try to put a licorice >candy (L?kerol) in its place as a kludge, but it very likely won't last. >Do you know what causes it? Where to get a new one? Is that SUPPOSED to >happen?' > >Confused Regards > >-Tore > Melting rubber, crumbling rubber what nots, I seen those, first time last week for latter, former many times in my life. Found two RCA PIP modules had that brown, sticky goo everywhere from where tan rubber bumpers used to be, YUUUK! RCA used them to keep tin shielding from shorting out on solder side circuit board. Goo also sometimes causes problems. Have to clean those off. And that PIP modules were used in CTC169 chassis (both for direct view tube and tv projectors). Manufactured between 1989 to 1996 era. About 10"x5"x2", pocked with holes for ventilation, usually 3 to 5 plugs in one row on one side. What kind of cleaners really successfully dissolves that goo? Have to do it easy and quick. CTC169 was produced by the zillions and wildly popular back then and we still see them all the time and it's a good money maker so far. By the way, rubber bumpers still used in many RCA later chassis like 177, 187, 19x (most recent versions that just stopped in production). Cheers, Wizard From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Jun 9 18:55:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: HP 9121 Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC41@lif015.vtmerlin.com> While dumpster diving at the end of a radio rally (what, doesn't everyone do this?) I found, in with the usual PC scrap, an HP 9121 dual disk unit. The unit powers and a small LED flashes five times but that's as far as I've got because I've not got anything to plug it into. I take it I can use DSDD 3.5" disks in this and that with a General Instrument HPIB card and some hand rolled code I can try it out. Anyone done this? Any pointers to where to start? Any online docs for the command set/protocols? Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 9 19:31:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:14 2005 Subject: Needed: DEC MicroRSX V4.x In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jun 09, 2003 09:40:40 PM Message-ID: <200306100027.h5A0R3hm021266@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anyone have a copy of MicroRSX V4.x which I can install > on a MicroPDP-11/53 ? I have a very old version (label says > V1 !) but although it will install on the /53, it freezes > after the final reboot, probably when it hits some feature > specific to the /53. Why on earth are you looking for a copy of MicroRSX? The system can run RSX-11M or M+, either of which are far better. Zane From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Mon Jun 9 19:33:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: New aquisitions References: <000001c32e37$934a87c0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <3EE5262B.4597F1D0@verizon.net> "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > > Which ones? > > The three computers seem to be the equivalent of today's generic > you-build-ems. The cases are unmarked. The motherboards are fairly > standard issue from the day (Godbout/Compupro or other generic x-slot > S-100 boards). In a way, I wish they were recognizable items like > Vector, Imsai or whatever, but this way is more exciting, I guess. And dicey, too. Never know which standard S-100 you have there. Will it work with MITS, Vector Graphics, Processor Technology, etc. > > The rest of the hardware, including the cards and drives, will be > examined as I find time. I've been house-hunting lately and free time > is at even more of a premium then usual (picture getting up at 6:30, > driving 125+ miles, loading several hundred pounds of gear, driving > back, unloading and then packing the baby and pregnant wife in the car > for a fun-filled day of looking at other peoples homes!) Some folks are obsessed with golf, others computer hardware; but everyone house hunts from time to time. :) > > I'm hoping everything settles out in the next few months, but by then > I'll have another baby in the house (hopefully a new house!) and the > feces will once again hit the wind-maker. > > Meanwhile, I'm not going to be able to keep all of this stuff so I do > need to figure out what's there and what I do keep then disseminate the > rest of the stuff as needed. > I'm interested in one the S-100 boxes, if you willing to part with one. We can discuss details off-list if you like. Eric Chomko (pne.chomko@verizon.net) P.S. I'm trying to sell a house and am working my but off to fix it up! > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Eric Chomko > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 6:36 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New aquisitions > > "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > > > Yesterday I drove about 250 miles (round trip) to get a small > truckload > > of old computers and parts. The partial list is below: > > > [...] > > > > 3 S-100 computers > > Which ones? > > > 1 tall rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives and 1 Hard Drive > > 1 shorter rackmount chassis with 2 8" drives but no cards > > 1 shorter rackmount with 1 N* 5.25" and several cards > > About 6-10 loose S-100 cards including IMS 8K and 4K RAM, a partial > > populated 86/87 card and a few others. > > > > Other machines > > Which ones? > > > > > 1 Heathkit H-19 terminal in good condition > > I used to own an H-19. > > Eric > > > > > Erik Klein > > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > > The Vintage Computer Forum From djg at drs-esg.com Mon Jun 9 20:15:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Teletype pictures online Message-ID: <200306100110.h5A1Ag603964@drs-esg.com> I finally got my teletype pages in a reasonable condition. With the recent discussions I thought people might be interested. Have pictures, videos, and my stilted prose. Let me know if you have any comments. http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml Does anybody know what a ASR 33 cost around 1970? Here's my fix for the gooey rubber print hammer http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/pics/ph_top.shtml And the resistors browning the power supply card. http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/pics/ccu_left.shtml David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From anheier at owt.com Mon Jun 9 20:50:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Sinclair ZX81 available Message-ID: I have a Sinclair ZX81 with the power supply and the 16K RAM module. Not sure how to get working, but appears in good shape. Best order + shipping or trade for old CPU processors. Thanks Norm From anheier at owt.com Mon Jun 9 20:53:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Zip drives available Message-ID: I have one each parallel port and SCSI 100 mb zip drives (Iomega) with power supplies and cables. $10 each + shipping or trade for older CPU processors. Thanks Norm From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 9 21:10:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules Message-ID: <200306100208.h5A2894P022626@spies.com> the M720 module schem is also on page 2-72 of volume II of the 8/I maintenance manual www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dec/pdp8/DEC-8I-HR2A-D_8Imaint_May70.pdf From jdickens at ameritech.net Mon Jun 9 21:22:01 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <200306100208.h5A2894P022626@spies.com> References: <200306100208.h5A2894P022626@spies.com> Message-ID: <200306092120.13933.jdickens@ameritech.net> I I need a couple 3 1/2" diskette for an old 8086 six laptop too boot with ... i don't have any good ones... if someone would like to offer to sell me 2 or 3 for around a buck apiece i would greatly appreciate it.. ebay only has them in 25 and 50 packs and i really don't even need 10 just one to boot and a backup... just going to use the laptop as a serial terminal I have a paypal account... if that makes it easier James Dickens From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jun 9 21:31:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks References: <200306100208.h5A2894P022626@spies.com> <200306092120.13933.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <00e501c32ef7$b2290b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jamesd" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 9:20 PM Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks > I I need a couple 3 1/2" diskette for an old 8086 six laptop too boot with > ... i don't have any good ones... if someone would like to offer to sell me 2 > or 3 for around a buck apiece i would greatly appreciate it.. ebay only has > them in 25 and 50 packs and i really don't even need 10 just one to boot and > a backup... just going to use the laptop as a serial terminal > > I have a paypal account... if that makes it easier > > James Dickens Have you tried using a HD floppy and putting tape over BOTH sides of the hole that marks the disk as HD? I should think that you could then format the floppy as a 720 easily. I haven't tried this myself, but "Logic is the art of going wrong - with confidence". I write enable factory-made read-only 1.44 floppies in this manner, and I use ordinary frosted "scotch" tape with great success. Stuart Johnson From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 9 21:51:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <00e501c32ef7$b2290b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: > > I I need a couple 3 1/2" diskette for an old 8086 six laptop too boot On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > Have you tried using a HD floppy and putting tape over BOTH sides of the > hole that marks the disk as HD? I should think that you could then format > the floppy as a 720 easily. I haven't tried this myself, but "Logic is the > art of going wrong - with confidence". I write enable factory-made read-only > 1.44 floppies in this manner, and I use ordinary frosted "scotch" tape with > great success. 1) Many drives use a light and photocell to sense that hole. At least use an opaque tape! 2) Many 720K drives have no sensor for the "media ID" hole, so tape, etc might turn out to be unnecessary unless/until you try to transfer files by putting that diskette into your 1.4M drive. However, there were some drives (THANKS, Tony!) that use that same location for the "is there a disk in the drive" sensor. 3) The magnetic coercivity is slightly different (600 for 720K, about 750 for 1.4M), so the result is not as reliable as using the right diskettes. If it works OK, you should still keep looking for some of the correct diskettes. From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jun 9 21:57:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks References: <200306100208.h5A2894P022626@spies.com> <200306092120.13933.jdickens@ameritech.net> <00e501c32ef7$b2290b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <00ed01c32efb$53a38440$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Johnson" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 9:26 PM Subject: Re: need 720k 3 1/2" disks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jamesd" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 9:20 PM > Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks > > > > I I need a couple 3 1/2" diskette for an old 8086 six laptop too boot > with > > ... i don't have any good ones... if someone would like to offer to sell > me 2 > > or 3 for around a buck apiece i would greatly appreciate it.. ebay only > has > > them in 25 and 50 packs and i really don't even need 10 just one to boot > and > > a backup... just going to use the laptop as a serial terminal > > > > I have a paypal account... if that makes it easier > > > > James Dickens > > Have you tried using a HD floppy and putting tape over BOTH sides of the > hole that marks the disk as HD? I should think that you could then format > the floppy as a 720 easily. I haven't tried this myself, but "Logic is the > art of going wrong - with confidence". I write enable factory-made read-only > 1.44 floppies in this manner, and I use ordinary frosted "scotch" tape with > great success. > > Stuart Johnson I realize that answering one's own post isn't the best netiquette, but I took time to try my suggestion and discovered that Windows XP Pro cannot format a floppy EXCEPT as a 1.44. If you have a 720 floppy and need to format it, you are SOL. This is in the XP documentation. This is an IMPROVEMENT? :-( Stuart Johnson From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 9 22:22:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <00ed01c32efb$53a38440$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > I realize that answering one's own post isn't the best netiquette, but I > took time to try my suggestion and discovered that Windows XP Pro cannot > format a floppy EXCEPT as a 1.44. If you have a 720 floppy and need to > format it, you are SOL. This is in the XP documentation. This is an > IMPROVEMENT? :-( It sucks. We must all do whatever it takes to turn Bill Gates into a millionaire. But,... I HAVE DONE IT. Since I didn't have my copy of the "resource Kit", I didn't know that it wasn't possible (The Wiley E. Coyote principle of software development) If I were to have known that it wasn't possible, then it would have been a lot more difficult. XP dropped support of formatting 720K from the desktop, and from the command line they dropped /F:720, and dropped /F:2. But they did NOT eliminate: FORMAT A: /T:80 /N:9 Note: I did it with a recent model Compaq; it is entirely possible that the BIOS in some machines may pose other, additional problems. And in future service packs, they make fix the "error" of having left in the /T and /N. Hmmmm. Is SETVER still present in XP? If so, then it would be possible to use an older FORMAT without even having to patch it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jun 9 22:37:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks References: Message-ID: <010201c32f00$d6af8b40$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 10:17 PM Subject: Re: need 720k 3 1/2" disks > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > I realize that answering one's own post isn't the best netiquette, but I > > took time to try my suggestion and discovered that Windows XP Pro cannot > > format a floppy EXCEPT as a 1.44. If you have a 720 floppy and need to > > format it, you are SOL. This is in the XP documentation. This is an > > IMPROVEMENT? :-( > > It sucks. We must all do whatever it takes to turn Bill Gates into a > millionaire. > > But,... > I HAVE DONE IT. > Since I didn't have my copy of the "resource Kit", I didn't know that it > wasn't possible (The Wiley E. Coyote principle of software development) > If I were to have known that it wasn't possible, then it would have been a > lot more difficult. > > > XP dropped support of formatting 720K from the desktop, and from the > command line they dropped /F:720, and dropped /F:2. But they did NOT > eliminate: > FORMAT A: /T:80 /N:9 > > Note: I did it with a recent model Compaq; it is entirely possible that > the BIOS in some machines may pose other, additional problems. And in > future service packs, they make fix the "error" of having left in the /T > and /N. > > > Hmmmm. Is SETVER still present in XP? If so, then it would be possible to > use an older FORMAT without even having to patch it. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com Good! Thanks for the info. Stuart Johnson From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 9 22:44:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE55303.6060200@mdrconsult.com> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I HAVE DONE IT. > Since I didn't have my copy of the "resource Kit", I didn't know that it > wasn't possible (The Wiley E. Coyote principle of software development) > If I were to have known that it wasn't possible, then it would have been a > lot more difficult. > > > XP dropped support of formatting 720K from the desktop, and from the > command line they dropped /F:720, and dropped /F:2. But they did NOT > eliminate: > FORMAT A: /T:80 /N:9 Darn you, Fred! Now I'll have to dig out that "advance" copy of Win2003 they sent me and install it on something, just to see. I had noticed that the /F:720 option was gone, but I have a DOS box that's on a lot more than the Windows box, so I never pursued it. :) Doc From jdickens at ameritech.net Mon Jun 9 22:50:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306092248.30411.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Monday 09 June 2003 10:17 pm, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > I realize that answering one's own post isn't the best netiquette, but I > > took time to try my suggestion and discovered that Windows XP Pro cannot > > format a floppy EXCEPT as a 1.44. If you have a 720 floppy and need to > > format it, you are SOL. This is in the XP documentation. This is an > > IMPROVEMENT? :-( > > It sucks. We must all do whatever it takes to turn Bill Gates into a > millionaire. > > But,... > I HAVE DONE IT. > Since I didn't have my copy of the "resource Kit", I didn't know that it > wasn't possible (The Wiley E. Coyote principle of software development) > If I were to have known that it wasn't possible, then it would have been a > lot more difficult. > > > XP dropped support of formatting 720K from the desktop, and from the > command line they dropped /F:720, and dropped /F:2. But they did NOT > eliminate: > FORMAT A: /T:80 /N:9 > > Note: I did it with a recent model Compaq; it is entirely possible that > the BIOS in some machines may pose other, additional problems. And in > future service packs, they make fix the "error" of having left in the /T > and /N. > > > Hmmmm. Is SETVER still present in XP? If so, then it would be possible to > use an older FORMAT without even having to patch it. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com hi To answer your question a true DSDD 3 1/2" drive can't read a DSHD, because the media is differenent... so it can't read a disk formated in a DSHD drive... i can't even boot my laptop to test if the reverse is true. By the way i also have an excepted an offer from a fellow list member to send me disks... witch i really appreciate... James Dickens From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 9 23:12:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <200306092248.30411.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > hi > To answer your question a true DSDD 3 1/2" drive can't read a DSHD, because > the media is differenent... so it can't read a disk formated in a DSHD No, a "DSDD" can't read a DSHD because it is recorded at a higher density. WHICH IS NOT THE DIRECTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT! The message that you just replied to was addressing the issue of whether the 720K diskette could be formatted in an ordinary PC (specifically XP). EVERY DSHD drive can read "DSDD" diskettes, so long as the disk controller supports the lower (250K) data transfer rate, and the correct software is present. That includes every disk controller that you have ever seen, although Tony and a few others may have some that were originally designed for 8" that do not support the lower rates. > drive... i can't even boot my laptop to test if the reverse is true. > By the way i also have an excepted an offer from a fellow list member to send > me disks... witch i really appreciate... NO manufacturer of a 3.5" HD drive has ever made an HD drive that couldn't ALSO handle the lower density. Yes, the media is different. The differences are: different chemical coating to produce a slightly higher coercivity, and an extra hole in the diskette to tell drives which diskette it is. Those are the ONLY differences. NOTE: not all drives include the sensor to notice the disk differences. THEREFORE: as stated previously, the ability to FORMAT 720K in a 1.4M is ONLY an issue of whether the SOFTWARE supports it, and if the harware is "normal". From jdickens at ameritech.net Mon Jun 9 23:36:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306092333.41578.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Monday 09 June 2003 11:07 pm, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > > hi > > To answer your question a true DSDD 3 1/2" drive can't read a DSHD, > > because the media is differenent... so it can't read a disk formated in a > > DSHD > my question was could a DSHD disk formated using 720k parameters on a DSDD drive be readable on a DSDD drive was the question... i know a DSDD disk is readaple and formatable on a DSHD drive it just that a DSHD drive can't be fooled to write a usuable DSDD disk by covering the whole or any other message... because the media on the DSHD disk is different.. > No, a "DSDD" can't read a DSHD because it is recorded at a higher density. > WHICH IS NOT THE DIRECTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT! > > The message that you just replied to was addressing the issue of whether > the 720K diskette could be formatted in an ordinary PC (specifically XP). > > EVERY DSHD drive can read "DSDD" diskettes, so long as the disk controller > supports the lower (250K) data transfer rate, and the correct > software is present. That includes every disk controller that you have > ever seen, although Tony and a few others may have some that were > originally designed for 8" that do not support the lower rates. > > > drive... i can't even boot my laptop to test if the reverse is true. > > By the way i also have an excepted an offer from a fellow list member to > > send me disks... witch i really appreciate... > > NO manufacturer of a 3.5" HD drive has ever made an HD drive that > couldn't ALSO handle the lower density. > > Yes, the media is different. The differences are: different chemical > coating to produce a slightly higher coercivity, and an extra hole in > the diskette to tell drives which diskette it is. Those are the ONLY > differences. NOTE: not all drives include the sensor to notice the disk > differences. > > THEREFORE: as stated previously, the ability to FORMAT 720K in a 1.4M is > ONLY an issue of whether the SOFTWARE supports it, and if the harware is > "normal". From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 10 00:16:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <200306092333.41578.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > my question was could a DSHD disk formated using 720k parameters on a DSDD > drive be readable on a DSDD drive was the question... i know a DSDD disk is > readaple and formatable on a DSHD drive it just that a DSHD drive can't be > fooled to write a usuable DSDD disk by covering the whole or any other > message... because the media on the DSHD disk is different.. It is not VERY different. YES, it WILL work. It will produce a somewhat unreliable, but working disk. (600 v 750 oersted) The media is different by less than 25% in coercivity. That is close enough that people who are not serious about reliability will claim that it works "just fine". In other words, in an emergency, you are likely to "get away with it". But use the correct diskette if there is any way to do so. In order to play with, or check out, the machine until you get some of the correct diskettes, you CAN play with HD diskettes. Just don't use them for any data that you aren't willing to lose. But your question also prompted discussion of HOW to "make do" with the wrong diskette (tape, etc.) and the issue that XP doesn't make it easy to format 720K (even with the right diskettes). If you are still having problems finding real 720K's let me know; I can certainly dig up a handful. But I intend to hang onto the early shutterless and manual shutter ones. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 10 00:27:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Fry's (was goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > All the Fry's in the area are "Themed" too. > > > > Fremont - Mad Scientist power equipment (including a large VanDeGraph > > generator) > > San Jose, Brokaw - Mayan Frys > > San Jose, Hamilton - Egyptian Fry's > > Sunnyvale - Museum Frys (was big IC chip frys (was "looks like a > > normal building)) > > Mountain View - Old West / Miner 49er Frys > > > > The Sacramento Fry's Used to be an "Incredible Universe" They had a > > big jumbotron just in the front door and what looked like a dance > > floor.. > > > > Are any of the other Fry's themed? > > The Wilsonville, OR Fry's is also an ex-"Incredible Universe", but I > wouldn't call it themed. The Houston, TX Fry's made an attempt at an "oil field" theme. Its pretty bad... Sounds like some of the others would be much more entertaining. -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 10 01:51:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> > > > Maybe you don't mind the insinuation that you are guilty of > > > something until showing your receipt for someone to mark > it with a > > > highlighter somehow magically admonishes you of any > wrong-doing, but > > > I do. > > > > > I don't see how it can be an insinuation of anything when > they do it > > to everyone. > > That somehow makes it OK? I don't follow that logic at all :( > Well, at least you concede it's logic. 8-) My point was that to read an insinuation into it you would have to believe, in a somewhat paranoid way, that they think everyone might be stealing from them. If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the DMV? -W From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 10 01:52:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE4D21D.5070200@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <001101c32f1c$2f8a2c00$7739cd18@D73KSM11> > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > > > >> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I > >>bill in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do > >>with/to/about a computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr > sales kid to > >>know more than I do? > > > > > > Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more > > than, "I don't know". > > Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but > instead of > admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to the West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your ass" -- makes more sense if you ask me. -W From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 10 01:57:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c32f1c$dd89ef20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > > > >> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But > folks, I > > >>bill in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do > > >>with/to/about a computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr > sales kid > > >>to know more than I do? > > > > > > > > > Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able > to say more > > > than, "I don't know". > > > > Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but > instead of > > admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." > > When the question is, "Do you have any more of these?" or > "Where is the ?" (you know, simple stuff like that) then > the answer "I don't know" is not what I would consider > "helpful". They may as well not even bother coming onto the > sales floor. > > > AKA CompUSA sales people. Those idjits are at least as > clueless as > > Fry's help, but seem to be fundamentally incapable of admitting it. > > I don't shop there either so I wouldn't know. > > > They're kids, man. They're working for dirt wages, and they get > > less training time than a janitor. And I've found, at least > at Fry's, > > that if I'm half nice to them, they'll try really hard to find > > somebody who does have an answer. > > My mood turns sour only after asking them for help. I give > everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. > The only place I ever ask for help is the hardware store, and then only to ask what aisle something is in. At Fry's I give the evil eye to anyone that approaches. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 10 02:28:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <001101c32f1c$2f8a2c00$7739cd18@D73KSM11> References: <001101c32f1c$2f8a2c00$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE58758.6070606@mdrconsult.com> Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to the > West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your ass" -- > makes more sense if you ask me. Well, OK, I was trying to dress down a little for company. ;) I grew up in the oilfields, where the term is "poundin sand in your ass" Some folk find that expression to be rude. Doc From dave at naffnet.org.uk Tue Jun 10 02:57:01 2003 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <001101c32f1c$2f8a2c00$7739cd18@D73KSM11> <3EE58758.6070606@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3EE58E55.3060801@naffnet.org.uk> Doc wrote: > > I grew up in the oilfields, where the term is "poundin sand in your > ass" > > Some folk find that expression to be rude. Here in the UK it's the animal lovers that would find this offensive... Dave. From jpdavis at gorge.net Tue Jun 10 03:06:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <001101c32f1c$2f8a2c00$7739cd18@D73KSM11> References: <001101c32f1c$2f8a2c00$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE58F67.90804@gorge.net> Wayne M. Smith wrote: >>Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >> >>>On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I >>>>bill in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do >>>>with/to/about a computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr >>>> >>>> >>sales kid to >> >> >>>>know more than I do? >>>> >>>> >>>Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more >>>than, "I don't know". >>> >>> >> Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but >>instead of >>admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." >> >> >> >I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to the >West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your ass" -- >makes more sense if you ask me. > >-W > > > My definition of "help" is a correct answer to "do you have X in stock" or "where is X located" or "what is the warranty on X". I would expect a blank stare from questions like: "can I use this network card with linux" or "what kind of memory does this MB use" Jim. From jpdavis at gorge.net Tue Jun 10 03:09:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> References: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE59008.8090402@gorge.net> Wayne M. Smith wrote: >If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the >DMV? > >-W > > > Heh Heh, I live in a small town. The wait at DMV is never more than 5-10 mins. No stop lights either. Jim From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Tue Jun 10 04:18:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: NEC APC III References: <3.0.3.32.20030609020016.0110b5e0@mail.optushome.com.au> <004301c32e3e$a3796d80$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> <011501c32e78$6ca39940$0100a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <048a01c32f30$71c557c0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi, Just another thought, does some one have a photo of an old APC III keybaord?? I have a couple of keyboards here that are non IBM that have had the conectors cut off, and one of them may be the keyboard to my machine. If anyone could even basically describe what I should look for that should be helpfull. At least I will know what I'm looking at even if I can't plug the thing in..... Peter T. > of standard pc hardware. Those in use here all had CGA screens and either > dual floppies or (marvel of marvels!) 10/20Mb HDDs-- still probably some > docs about but only ever saw operating handbooks. Fairly sure I know where > there is still at least one keyboard---maybe two.... > > Dave Brown > Christchurch, NZ > > PS- Guess what was supplied for use as a portable terminal-the 9801--used to > be lots of them about as well- I have one or two salted away-complete with > cassette tape units etc. > DB that well. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jun 10 07:13:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <001201c32f1c$dd89ef20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > to ask what aisle something is in. At Fry's I give the evil eye to > anyone that approaches. Yes! That works, same here :) --f From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Jun 10 07:39:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE58758.6070606@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to the > > West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your ass" -- > > makes more sense if you ask me. Never heard the sugar variation, have heard the smoke version, and I live in Ohio. (I'd presume Ohio counts as midwest. :-) ) > > Well, OK, I was trying to dress down a little for company. ;) > > I grew up in the oilfields, where the term is "poundin sand in your ass" > > Some folk find that expression to be rude. Hmm, funny, I find that expression to be useful for certain vendor's who are trying to blow "smoke up my......." :-) No, our CPU's don't have hardware issues > Doc From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 08:13:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: classiccmp movie on tonight Message-ID: On the "Turner Classic Movie" cable channel, at 3AM EST tomorrow morning, _Hot_Millions_ will be shown. Made in 1968, it's one of the first, if not the first, depection of computer crime in a movie. I haven't seen it in many years, but I seem to remember it being pretty amusing. I'm going to try to record it. Here's the IMDB link: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0063094 With Peter Ustinov, Maggie Smith and Karl Malden. Bill From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Jun 10 08:31:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <20030610115756.GD22846@snew.com> Message-ID: <00a501c32f53$cf621ad0$947ba8c0@p933> I was born and raised in NY and I'm far from soft. I've done my fair share of yelling at 57th street and Crazy Eddie as well as at the Fry's dipshits. The fact that the attitude is prevalent and service is for crap almost everywhere doesn't make it right. Those who tolerate it just add to the problem by supporting "businessmen" who's attitudes are not customer friendly. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Yerkes [mailto:chuck+ccmp@2003.snew.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 4:58 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: classiccmp@vintage-computer.com Subject: Re: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon I must address... Some item by item below, but Fry's is no different than any store in NYC I've dealt with. It's just that californians, because of the weather, are soft and weak and don't like their mellows to be harshed. J&R music was across the st. from my office, once upon a. In January, one of our programmers broke a leg or something. Work from home, he needed a modem (pre-DSL or even common ISPs). I got petty cash (4 $50 bills) and walked over with my morning coffee. "Sir! you can't bring that in here." Ok, so I checked my coffee and got a ticket. The counter girl sort of laughed and rolled her eyes. Went to the Mac area. All the sales guys were clustered,talking about their weekends. I waited. Some. Then I fanned out the $50's over my head and shouted, "Hey, I need to spend this money; anyone want to help?" I took the *second* guy who came over. Then I dealt with the game of "pay at the counter and wait 10 minutes for the item to come up from the bowels." Instead, I gave them money and left (checking out my coffee to the bemusement of the new guy there) and got it before lunch. "where were you sir? this has been waiting." "I had better things to do that stand around for a handsized device you could have on the shelf." We can chat about 47th St Photo and that the only time I saw good customer service not in the model of "mock the customer but he'll come to you because you're the cheapest" was when they were in Chap 11. Bought a Nikon from a Woman(!) who was Iraqi and (most imp), was a professional photographer. We had fun going through cameras and I ended up going to an exhibit she had going. Quite the change from "You stupid american, here is the camera you should buy" that I got from the Israeli who usually ran the counter. I enjoy Fry's for some of that. But yes, it is the 7th circle. Quoting Erik S. Klein (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com): > > Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the general > > public." > > Fry's has several "policies" in place (or used to, I haven't been in > that crap-hole for years) that fall under that category. > > They have shrink-wrap machines at every location and often re-wrap > returns to re-sell as new - even those reported as defective by the > customer returning them! (Hearsay from an ex-employee followed up by > observing stacks of items that, to me anyway, were obviously re-wrapped) > They deliberately make returns difficult so that people who buy recycled > junk often won't bother to try getting their money back. ... Well, they understaff for weekends. Find me a store that's not understaffed. Return on a tuesday at 4PM and you stroll through. You also get people who haven't been yelled at all day. > I remember purchasing RAM for an old P-III there once. The first SIMMS ... > I asked if I could do an exchange and test the replacements before > I left and was told that store policy prohibited that. . . !!! > > I consider those things to be theft. I consider those to be poor management and bad customer service. Those "in the know" know to look for the restock tag (a big white sticker). Somethings have several. After returning a DOA power supply (with 3! stickers), I insisted that it not be restocked and the mgr concurred enthusiastically. It went into a DOA bin. I'm believing it stayed there. (ironically an Antec PS - company based not 5 miles from them (and Antec is the only PC PS I'll buy)). > The fact that I haven't met a Fry's employee who wasn't a drooling idiot > (my friend was obviously too bright for the place! :) and the fact that > the store always seemed to be out of the single thing you came in for > always bothered me as well. Actually, esp of late, I found some good geeks there. I pulled out my Zaurus to look up a note and a sales guy jumped over to see and asked me smart questions (do you have ssh for it, how's it with blue tooth, etc). I was looking for a 64MB thumbdrive that was $5 after rebate (I *hate* rebates). We couldn't find any. He went behind the cashier counter and found me one where someone had perhaps picked up more than the per-person limit and the cashiers put extra stuff in the restock carts. But keep in mind the talent you get for sales floor at $7 + commissions on certain items. That's every where. > One fun thing to try, by the way: When the Fry's bonehead at the guarded > exit tries to search your bag, just walk on by. As it turns out they > can't legally search your property (which the bag is the moment you pay > for it) unless they have some reasonable belief that you are stealing. > If they don't have this and detain you it is the equivalent of false > arrest. The California Commercial Code declares that you own it when you give them money. CompUseLessA, Home Depot, Staples, Blood Bath & Beyond all have the door guards... Your locally owned merchants often disguise them as nice folks standing there to say "thanks" and "come again." I don't open my bag. We all miss Canal St in NY (finding 1pF capacitors and cheap 'scopes and RAM for my Apple ][ in '88 made me happy). We all miss when the US was competitive in manufacturing, design and even when calls to customer services went to US workers. But face it, we get jobs designing software and we get to work at counters (want Fry's with that?). This is the future. At *least* they are locally owned (bay area). So keep shopping at merchants whose offices are 4000 miles from your local economy. Enjoy your Home Depot with knockoff quality items from Milwaukee and Hunter, made especially for HD to meet their low price needs. Go to Starbucks and make sure your money doesn't stay with someone nearby who might do business with you. Save your coupons for frozen vegetables - those farmers markets are so inconvenient. < 40% of Walmart employees have benefits (the largest employer in the US) Next time you call in a mail order, ask if they have benefits. Starbucks charges your $4 for a drink whose ingredients cost $0.10. Coke costs less than $0.07/can to make. You want service? Spend that 20% more for your item at the guy down the street. It may be too late, the spiral means that my local Mac store has been whacked by an Apple Corp. store. (where I sent them running around looking for a CP/M card for my "Apple 2" - the local store guy didn't fall for it). Welcome to the new economy. Fry's with that? From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 08:54:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks References: <200306092333.41578.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <3EE5E1DD.A9CD88E4@verizon.net> jamesd wrote: > > On Monday 09 June 2003 11:07 pm, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, jamesd wrote: > > > hi > > > To answer your question a true DSDD 3 1/2" drive can't read a DSHD, > > > because the media is differenent... so it can't read a disk formated in a > > > DSHD > > > my question was could a DSHD disk formated using 720k parameters on a DSDD > drive be readable on a DSDD drive was the question... i know a DSDD disk is > readaple and formatable on a DSHD drive it just that a DSHD drive can't be > fooled to write a usuable DSDD disk by covering the whole or any other > message... because the media on the DSHD disk is different.. I covered the hole of a preformatted 1.44mb DSHD diskette and put it into my Windows 2000 PC and tried to read it. It stated that the diskette was not formatted, do I want to format it? Yes, I stated as a 720kb DSDD diskette. It reformatted the diskette and showed the space at 720kb less some overhead. So on my system I could convert a 1.44mb floppy into a 720kb floppy simply by covering the hole. Do you need a boot disk (software) or do you need simply a formatted 720kb diskette? Eric From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 08:56:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE5E254.209A5FE3@verizon.net> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > > > > Maybe you don't mind the insinuation that you are guilty of > > > > something until showing your receipt for someone to mark > > it with a > > > > highlighter somehow magically admonishes you of any > > wrong-doing, but > > > > I do. > > > > > > > I don't see how it can be an insinuation of anything when > > they do it > > > to everyone. > > > > That somehow makes it OK? I don't follow that logic at all :( > > > Well, at least you concede it's logic. 8-) My point was that to read an > insinuation into it you would have to believe, in a somewhat paranoid > way, that they think everyone might be stealing from them. > > If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the > DMV? I have a choice whether to use Fry's, whereas I am forced to use the DMV. > > -W From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 08:58:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <001101c32f1c$2f8a2c00$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE5E29E.DF04912C@verizon.net> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > > > > > >> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I > > >>bill in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do > > >>with/to/about a computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr > > sales kid to > > >>know more than I do? > > > > > > > > > Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more > > > than, "I don't know". > > > > Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but > > instead of > > admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." > > > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to the > West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your ass" -- > makes more sense if you ask me. Depends on the kind of smoke. It's CA, so most likely its the good kind of smoke. :) > > -W From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jun 10 09:08:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE5E254.209A5FE3@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > I have a choice whether to use Fry's, whereas I am forced to use the > DMV. No you're not. Grab a bicyle :) --f From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jun 10 09:30:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? Message-ID: <200306101423.KAA15539@wordstock.com> There is a _new_ type of memory being developed called MRAM, which uses magnetic fields to store data. An interesting quote from the article (to bring it on-topic): "Magnetic fields have been used to store data since time immemorial," he joked. "We were using it in the early 1960s and 1950s." The article can be found at: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-1014865.html Cheers, Bryan From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jun 10 10:10:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: HP manual arrives, plus vacation Message-ID: <000d01c32f61$c3f43300$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Greetings! When I got home yesterday, waiting on my doorstep was a package I had totally forgotten about. Someone sent me an original HP2000F Users Guide in an HP binder :) WooHoo! Also, I am on vacation this week, (a working vacation sort of, so no big joy), but I will be a little harder to reach and slower to respond than usual (yes, I can hear you all laughing now). Should be back to normal monday. Jay West From mocleiri at uoguelph.ca Tue Jun 10 10:37:00 2003 From: mocleiri at uoguelph.ca (Michael O'Cleirigh) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Having trouble hooking up a bondwell b310sx to an external monitor Message-ID: <3EE398F0.5080006@uoguelph.ca> Hello, My father has used his bondwell b310sx for the last 10 years or so. It's 16 shades of grey lcd screen is beginning to go so I suggested he get an external monitor to use as the screen instead. However, while there is a vga output at the back where I have attached the monitor noting appears on the screen of the monitor. The b310sx seems to recognize that a monitor is attached by blanking the lcd but nothing appears on the external monitor. Does anyone have experiance with doing this? Thanks for your time, Mike From jackiewang at itic.com.cn Tue Jun 10 10:37:26 2003 From: jackiewang at itic.com.cn (jackiewang) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: substitution of u6049 Message-ID: <000b01c32e37$a420d540$0301a8c0@jackiewang> trying find out exactly which part number can replace u6049b,which offered by Atmel applicated in radiator fan control timer for car. any one have any idea. jackie [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of U6049B.pdf] From Bella.Oxmyx at charter.net Tue Jun 10 10:37:34 2003 From: Bella.Oxmyx at charter.net (Bella Oxmyx) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: Compaq Deskpro 286 Message-ID: <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> Does anybody have a listing of translations for the drive types for a Compaq Deskpro 286? (i.e. type , cylinders, heads, sectors) I have couple of hard drives I'd like to add, but can't tell what drive type to select. The setup disk doesn't have a user definable type. Jack From tim_goober at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 10:37:43 2003 From: tim_goober at hotmail.com (tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: please help Message-ID: I have a Slt 286 that powers up fine and was working fine. it has lotus, and word on it and when i turned it on today it says insert setup disk into a: and there is no way for me to get around it. i can't get to c:, please help tim_goober@hotmail.com From chuck+ccmp at 2003.snew.com Tue Jun 10 10:37:52 2003 From: chuck+ccmp at 2003.snew.com (Chuck Yerkes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20030610115756.GD22846@snew.com> I must address... Some item by item below, but Fry's is no different than any store in NYC I've dealt with. It's just that californians, because of the weather, are soft and weak and don't like their mellows to be harshed. J&R music was across the st. from my office, once upon a. In January, one of our programmers broke a leg or something. Work from home, he needed a modem (pre-DSL or even common ISPs). I got petty cash (4 $50 bills) and walked over with my morning coffee. "Sir! you can't bring that in here." Ok, so I checked my coffee and got a ticket. The counter girl sort of laughed and rolled her eyes. Went to the Mac area. All the sales guys were clustered,talking about their weekends. I waited. Some. Then I fanned out the $50's over my head and shouted, "Hey, I need to spend this money; anyone want to help?" I took the *second* guy who came over. Then I dealt with the game of "pay at the counter and wait 10 minutes for the item to come up from the bowels." Instead, I gave them money and left (checking out my coffee to the bemusement of the new guy there) and got it before lunch. "where were you sir? this has been waiting." "I had better things to do that stand around for a handsized device you could have on the shelf." We can chat about 47th St Photo and that the only time I saw good customer service not in the model of "mock the customer but he'll come to you because you're the cheapest" was when they were in Chap 11. Bought a Nikon from a Woman(!) who was Iraqi and (most imp), was a professional photographer. We had fun going through cameras and I ended up going to an exhibit she had going. Quite the change from "You stupid american, here is the camera you should buy" that I got from the Israeli who usually ran the counter. I enjoy Fry's for some of that. But yes, it is the 7th circle. Quoting Erik S. Klein (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com): > > Why do you suggest that Fry's is "effectively stealing from the general > > public." > > Fry's has several "policies" in place (or used to, I haven't been in > that crap-hole for years) that fall under that category. > > They have shrink-wrap machines at every location and often re-wrap > returns to re-sell as new - even those reported as defective by the > customer returning them! (Hearsay from an ex-employee followed up by > observing stacks of items that, to me anyway, were obviously re-wrapped) > They deliberately make returns difficult so that people who buy recycled > junk often won't bother to try getting their money back. ... Well, they understaff for weekends. Find me a store that's not understaffed. Return on a tuesday at 4PM and you stroll through. You also get people who haven't been yelled at all day. > I remember purchasing RAM for an old P-III there once. The first SIMMS ... > I asked if I could do an exchange and test the replacements before > I left and was told that store policy prohibited that. . . !!! > > I consider those things to be theft. I consider those to be poor management and bad customer service. Those "in the know" know to look for the restock tag (a big white sticker). Somethings have several. After returning a DOA power supply (with 3! stickers), I insisted that it not be restocked and the mgr concurred enthusiastically. It went into a DOA bin. I'm believing it stayed there. (ironically an Antec PS - company based not 5 miles from them (and Antec is the only PC PS I'll buy)). > The fact that I haven't met a Fry's employee who wasn't a drooling idiot > (my friend was obviously too bright for the place! :) and the fact that > the store always seemed to be out of the single thing you came in for > always bothered me as well. Actually, esp of late, I found some good geeks there. I pulled out my Zaurus to look up a note and a sales guy jumped over to see and asked me smart questions (do you have ssh for it, how's it with blue tooth, etc). I was looking for a 64MB thumbdrive that was $5 after rebate (I *hate* rebates). We couldn't find any. He went behind the cashier counter and found me one where someone had perhaps picked up more than the per-person limit and the cashiers put extra stuff in the restock carts. But keep in mind the talent you get for sales floor at $7 + commissions on certain items. That's every where. > One fun thing to try, by the way: When the Fry's bonehead at the guarded > exit tries to search your bag, just walk on by. As it turns out they > can't legally search your property (which the bag is the moment you pay > for it) unless they have some reasonable belief that you are stealing. > If they don't have this and detain you it is the equivalent of false > arrest. The California Commercial Code declares that you own it when you give them money. CompUseLessA, Home Depot, Staples, Blood Bath & Beyond all have the door guards... Your locally owned merchants often disguise them as nice folks standing there to say "thanks" and "come again." I don't open my bag. We all miss Canal St in NY (finding 1pF capacitors and cheap 'scopes and RAM for my Apple ][ in '88 made me happy). We all miss when the US was competitive in manufacturing, design and even when calls to customer services went to US workers. But face it, we get jobs designing software and we get to work at counters (want Fry's with that?). This is the future. At *least* they are locally owned (bay area). So keep shopping at merchants whose offices are 4000 miles from your local economy. Enjoy your Home Depot with knockoff quality items from Milwaukee and Hunter, made especially for HD to meet their low price needs. Go to Starbucks and make sure your money doesn't stay with someone nearby who might do business with you. Save your coupons for frozen vegetables - those farmers markets are so inconvenient. < 40% of Walmart employees have benefits (the largest employer in the US) Next time you call in a mail order, ask if they have benefits. Starbucks charges your $4 for a drink whose ingredients cost $0.10. Coke costs less than $0.07/can to make. You want service? Spend that 20% more for your item at the guy down the street. It may be too late, the spiral means that my local Mac store has been whacked by an Apple Corp. store. (where I sent them running around looking for a CP/M card for my "Apple 2" - the local store guy didn't fall for it). Welcome to the new economy. Fry's with that? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 10 10:46:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: OT: Regional Slang (was Re: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <3EE5E29E.DF04912C@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20030610154102.61478.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > > I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." > > > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to > the West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your > ass" -- makes more sense if you ask me. I've lived in Ohio for most of my life... I've only heard the phrase used with smoke, never with sugar. The other common variant is "blow sunshine up your skirt". -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 10 10:59:29 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:15 2005 Subject: please help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030610154717.45281.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- tim wrote: > I have a Slt 286 that powers up fine and was working fine. it has lotus, > and word on it and when i turned it on today it says insert setup disk > into a: and there is no way for me to get around it. i can't get to c:, > please help Sounds like your Dallas clock battery has died. I was unable to get my SLT 286 to work until I located a replacement. IIRC, it's a DS1287, but they are not available new because they have a Y2K bug. There is a "modern" replacement part, but I have not tried it. It's a sealed unit, so it's not possible to "change" the battery. Excavation might be an option, but the case of the SLT is so tight that when I installed a low-profile socket in mine (to accept the "new" DS1287), I had to trim the aluminum shrouding that defines the bottom of the battery case to let the Dallas chip pass through (my SLT 286 never had a battery - mine is permanently affixed to its docking station for power). Whatever solution you attempt must not elevate the Dallas chip in any way, especially not by having exposed leads higher than the chip package. -ethan -ethan From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Jun 10 11:01:01 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX) In-Reply-To: <20030608203915.5d3b52cb.kempfj2@rpi.edu> References: <002801c32869$a07364e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001001c32e1a$bbab50e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20030608203915.5d3b52cb.kempfj2@rpi.edu> Message-ID: <1055260594.2121.3.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 17:39, Jesse Kempf wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:04:43 -0400 > "John Allain" wrote: > > > Re: Sunday, June 01, 2003 > > > > The 6610 has been outplaced and moved, and, > > to a person who is decidedly a non-scrapper. > > To all those that responded, Thanks. > > The VAX 6000-610 is in a good home, in the same air conditioned room as a VAXvector 6000-410 and a VAX 8530, and the hull of a VAX 11/780. > I know we have DSSI disks around here...somewhere. It's going to be fun, as all of the other machines use SDI. > Within a few weeks, the 6000-610 should be up as FooVAX.eclub.rpi.edu. Congrats on your rescue! My KL-10 is now sitting silently in my storage area waiting for me to start work on it. I've started putting stuff on my web site about it -- take a look! What I really *need* to find are a complete set of maintanence prints. There are none to be found (so far). :-( -- TTFN - Guy From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 10 11:08:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: References: <20030605113933.91238.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 5, 3 12:39:33 pm Message-ID: <3EE61E80.18350.D3185215@localhost> > > PAL Colour Card: No idea as to manufacturer; mainly analogue circuitry on > > board plus the modulator and a bit of TTL. Am I likely to need software for > > this to work with a UK TV? > I don't think it'll need special software. It goes in slot 7 (only -- it > needs some clock signals that are only on that slot), and may also > connect to one of the aux video connectors on the mainboard. You also > have to do the Eurapple modification (as in the TechRef -- cut and jumper > the pads and change the crystal) unless you have a Europlus. Or just use an according 'PAL' Apple. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 10 11:15:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Well, at least you concede it's logic. 8-) My point was that to read an > insinuation into it you would have to believe, in a somewhat paranoid > way, that they think everyone might be stealing from them. Yes, I do believe that, otherwise why would they employ the practice? The fact is, they check everyone's receipt because they don't trust their customers. It's not my paranoia, it's theirs. > If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the > DMV? You know, in California, there's a law in the Vehicle Code that says that no patron of the DMV shall have to wait in line more than something like 4 minutes. It doesn't lay out what the repercussions are if you are made to wait longer than that time, but I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 10 11:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE58758.6070606@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > Well, OK, I was trying to dress down a little for company. ;) > > I grew up in the oilfields, where the term is "poundin sand in your ass" > > Some folk find that expression to be rude. It certainly sounds painful. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 10 11:23:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: OT: Celeron References: <002801c32869$a07364e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001001c32e1a$bbab50e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20030608203915.5d3b52cb.kempfj2@rpi.edu> <1055260594.2121.3.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <013901c32f6b$ecfe49c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Any decent complaints against modern Celeron processors? I'm considering getting a desktop with one in it and want to know if there's missing instructions, Linux problems, or that sort of thing. Reply off list may be appropriate with OT's. John A. From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Tue Jun 10 11:30:01 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Compaq Deskpro 286 In-Reply-To: <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> Message-ID: Check out this link. It gives jumper settings for all kinds of stuff as well as hard drive configuration settings (cylinders/heads/sectors etc.) bye manufacturer and model. http://th99.pley.org/ Greg -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bella Oxmyx Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:40 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Compaq Deskpro 286 Does anybody have a listing of translations for the drive types for a Compaq Deskpro 286? (i.e. type , cylinders, heads, sectors) I have couple of hard drives I'd like to add, but can't tell what drive type to select. The setup disk doesn't have a user definable type. Jack From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jun 10 12:19:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: OT: Regional Slang (was Re: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <20030610154102.61478.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3EE5E29E.DF04912C@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610124756.02a300f0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: >"Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > > > > I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." > > > > > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to > > the West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your > > ass" -- makes more sense if you ask me. > >I've lived in Ohio for most of my life... I've only heard the phrase >used with smoke, never with sugar. The other common variant is >"blow sunshine up your skirt". Living in Michigan my whole life, I've heard it -> well, I need Linux-speak for this: blow [smoke|sunshine] up your [skirt|ass] (basically, any combo of the words in brackets, making for 4 different variations) but like Ethan, I've never heard sugar come into play before.[1] More OT Drivel for the list... ;-) "Merch" [1] I've also heard a variation with a bug crawling up one's arse - to mean that one was quite irritable that day... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 10 12:31:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: ZX81 Kits (was:cctalk digest, Vol 1 #633) In-Reply-To: <20030607034445.72443.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030606170001.28644.52625.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3EE631D6.28966.D363D9E5@localhost> > > May I suggest that you check Zebra's web site? Mr. > > Newfeld has these kits priced at *$99.95* > > A few years back he was listing them at $29.95. I > > bought a couple, and so > > did some friends. He immediately raised the price > > to $39.95, then $49.95, and > > finally the ridiculous price of $99.95. He's been > > sitting on these damn kits > > since the early eighties, and the only explanation > > for the price increase is > > plain and simple greed. > Could be... > Being he is the last source of them. I wouldn't be that sure. > Don't buy one, if you don't want one... Right. > Knowing how much money Stewart lost in the Timex > Market when Timex quit, and in the Coco Market for > products we developed and then couldn't release (for > both platforms)... > I wouldn't call it greed. He could easily dumpster the > remaining kits and make MUCH more money doing other > things. > I guess you don't know Stewarts history as I do, so > you call it "greed". > Remember ORCH-80? It was a rip-off of Stewarts MUCH > BETTER Music Box. He got stuck with THOUSANDS of > Dollars of product that became unsellable, since the > Orch-80 was so much cheaper (a less sophisticated > design, and the sound wasn't at nice...), that it sold > BELOW the Music Boxes cost, AND with one SuperZap to > the Music Box Software, could use all the MB songs. > Not to mention all the S-100 Product he got stuck > with, AND the companion pieces, the Rhythym Box, which > now wouldn't sell because he wasn't selling Music > Boxes..... > > I could tell you stories. Go ahead, seams to be quite relevant history! > Stewart isn't quite greedy... But, definitely > interested in making a living, as we all are. No? Jup, and understandable. I still have a hard time to get a complete picture here. I tried several times to order a bunch of ZX81s from him, back when he asked 29.95, and when the price rose to 49.95. I never got any reply. I tried eMail and since this didn't work Fax and finaly a real letter. And I wanted to buy more than just one little Kit. Now, I have a hard time to see any business minded structure (and the whish to earn money) in ignoring potential customers at all. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jun 10 12:59:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > NO NO NO! > > > > With the right attitude while going in there, it can be a blast! > > ...induced with the right kind of drugs I suppose. Sounds a bit like Maplin. Me: "Have you got any 74LS573s in stock?" Salesdroid: "Forty seven at the warehouse" Me: "Let me rephrase that - have you got any 74LS573s *here*?" Salesdroid: "Er... Two. I'll just go check the drawer" Salesdroid: [5mins later] "We haven't got any left." Me: "How long would it take to get one from the warehouse?" Salesdroid: "A week." Me: "You're kidding..." Salesdroid: "Nope." *sigh* Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jun 10 13:38:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Yes, I do believe that, otherwise why would they employ the practice? The > fact is, they check everyone's receipt because they don't trust their > customers. It's not my paranoia, it's theirs. They do, and so what? I'm not stealing anything, so I cannot be bothered by them wanting to check my bag in the hopes to find the bad guys. Similar to some woman freaking out at the (SFO) airport, 'cos one of the green boys wanted to search her bag. If you have nothing to hide, why bother screaming? > > If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the > > DMV? > > You know, in California, there's a law in the Vehicle Code that says that > no patron of the DMV shall have to wait in line more than something like 4 > minutes. It doesn't lay out what the repercussions are if you are made to > wait longer than that time, but I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. DMV San Jose took me, oh, an hour. SMV Santa Clara usually takes me the same.. only DMV Mtn Vw takes me ~15 mins, sometimes longer. It helps bunches if you actually speak (or, at least, understand) English, unlike several people from apparently Korea who demanded their gramma was given a drivers license. Sadly, she didnt speak a word of English, couldnt read it either (so much for the YIELD sign..) and got into frantic-rage mode when made clear that she could not get a license, as she could not even be asked her name. [MUCH later that day, I heard that they arrested her family for threatening the girl at the counter...] Lines are, afaik, a fact of life. I don't like them, but cannot change it, so.. dont really care. Altho DMV *could* check out how the folks at In-N-Out prcess lines of people wanting to be served :) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jun 10 13:48:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Needed: DEC MicroRSX V4.x In-Reply-To: <200306100027.h5A0R3hm021266@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Does anyone have a copy of MicroRSX V4.x which I can install > > on a MicroPDP-11/53 ? I have a very old version (label says > > V1 !) but although it will install on the /53, it freezes > > after the final reboot, probably when it hits some feature > > specific to the /53. > > Why on earth are you looking for a copy of MicroRSX? The system can run > RSX-11M or M+, either of which are far better. Yeah, well, the guy that owns the box used to run MicroRSX on it, and asked if it could be made to run that again. So, teh question is: is it around? Cheers, Fred From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Jun 10 13:54:00 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest Simpson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: please help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1055270971.9517.0.camel@linux.local> On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 12:09, tim wrote: > I have a Slt 286 that powers up fine and was working fine. it has lotus, and > word on it and when i turned it on today it says insert setup disk into a: and > there is no way for me to get around it. i can't get to c:, please help > tim_goober@hotmail.com Sounds like your hard drive might be dead. From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jun 10 14:07:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Message-ID: >It >helps bunches if you actually speak (or, at least, understand) >English, unlike several people from apparently Korea who demanded >their gramma was given a drivers license. Sadly, she didnt speak >a word of English, couldnt read it either (so much for the YIELD >sign..) and got into frantic-rage mode when made clear that she >could not get a license, as she could not even be asked her >name. Here in NJ, the DMV drivers manuals are printed in English as well as Spanish, and I think Arabic (possibly others as well). The exam is also given in English or Spanish written, and with special reasons, English or Spanish oral for people with reading problems (I wonder if that's a valid excuse for ignoring speed limit signs? Sorry officer, I can't read, if you would read the sign to me I'll be happy to obey it). Of course, currently, almost all street signs of any kind are only printed in English, so I guess once you pass the oral Spanish exam, you are on your own for knowing what a sign says. (There are some parts of some cities that post signs in Spanish, but they are not the norm). And of course, when you NEED a drivers manual, the only ones the DMV ever seems to have in stock are the Spanish ones. Oh, and nothing beats the speedyness of the Trenton No-Fee DMV (a special office for No-Fee registrations and plates). They had my reg and plates ready before I could finish writing out the check. Yes, this is NJ DMV... the only place you have to PAY for No-Fee registrations!!! -chris From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 10 14:07:23 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: More bounties ($$$) Message-ID: I just posted some new bounties of stuff I am seeking for a client. If you've got these and are willing to part with them (at least for a temporary amount of time) let me know. Laboratory and Industrial Data Acquisition and Control (Strawberry Tree Computers) Lotus Measure: Data Direct to Lotus Spreadsheet Lotus Comprehensive Developer Tools for 123 and Symphony These and other bounties can be reviewed here: http://www.vintagetech.com/index.html?section=bounty -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 10 14:10:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Rare 1906 calculator ? In-Reply-To: <018601c32dcb$aae485a0$6409dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3EE6491A.7287.D3BEBABA@localhost> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535682872&category=1247 Well, a hundred, or maybe 150 Bucks, but that's it. For a whole grand it better looks like new and is delivered in the original box. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 10 14:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > They do, and so what? I'm not stealing anything, so I cannot be > bothered by them wanting to check my bag in the hopes to find the > bad guys. Similar to some woman freaking out at the (SFO) airport, > 'cos one of the green boys wanted to search her bag. If you have > nothing to hide, why bother screaming? Bzzt. Wrong answer...police state mentality. If you live in a Constitutional Republic, please pack your bags and depart for the nearest dictatorship immediately. I wouldn't want the lack of concern you have for due process and unlawful search and seizure to devalue my rights. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jun 10 14:19:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, chris wrote: > Here in NJ, the DMV drivers manuals are printed in English as well as > Spanish, and I think Arabic (possibly others as well). English and Spanish too, in CA. Never seen Arabic, though. Sellam would know :) Still.. most Asians speak neither, so they're hosed. What struck my mom (also Dutch, with whom I was in line to get her through the whole drivers license thingie) that the woman's family *demanded* she get a license, and, later, made a big fuss when they denied her one, based on language issues. So, my mom, in her best English, at the counter "I am sorry about my bad english, but it is NOT as bad as that lady's.." :) > excuse for ignoring speed limit signs? Sorry officer, I can't read, if > you would read the sign to me I'll be happy to obey it). I pulled that twice... third time failed, because the damn cop noticed that it was kinda funny that some tourist from Holland (I have two drivers licenses..) actually owned the car he was driving in, which a San Jose-based address... damn me..) > And of course, when you NEED a drivers manual, the only ones the DMV ever > seems to have in stock are the Spanish ones. Yup. > Oh, and nothing beats the speedyness of the Trenton No-Fee DMV (a special > office for No-Fee registrations and plates). They had my reg and plates > ready before I could finish writing out the check. Yes, this is NJ DMV... > the only place you have to PAY for No-Fee registrations!!! :) God, I wonder if our old house is still there in NJ... *sigh* --f From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jun 10 14:26:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Wyse 386 available in NJ Message-ID: I have a Wyse 386 PC available if anyone wants it. Its a WY3116SX-01. It has 3.5 and 5.25 drives in it, and had an IDE hard drive, but I pulled that a while ago (I will be happy to supply a replacement, I think it was a 40 MB drive). I'm not sure how much RAM it has in it (probably 2, 4, or 8 MB, but I doubt any more than 8 MB). Also has a VGA video card it in. I might have the config software as well, but I'll have to dig. I do have the RJ-12 to Din-5 keyboard adaptor to enable you to connect a standard AT keyboard to it. If anyone wants it, just come pick it up, or cover shipping costs (from Ridgewood NJ 07450). It gets stripped and tossed if I don't hear from someone before the end of the week. -chris From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jun 10 14:26:17 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Bzzt. Wrong answer...police state mentality. If you live in a > Constitutional Republic, please pack your bags and depart for the nearest > dictatorship immediately. Would Holland, being a Const. Monarchy, do? :) > I wouldn't want the lack of concern you have > for due process and unlawful search and seizure to devalue my rights. Indeed, you have Bush. Enjoy the pain. But lets not get into that totally offtopic stuff here. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jun 10 14:32:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: please help In-Reply-To: <1055270971.9517.0.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: On 10 Jun 2003, Ernest Simpson wrote: > On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 12:09, tim wrote: > > I have a Slt 286 that powers up fine and was working fine. it has lotus, and > > word on it and when i turned it on today it says insert setup disk into a: and > > there is no way for me to get around it. i can't get to c:, please help > > > tim_goober@hotmail.com > > Sounds like your hard drive might be dead. Actually, sounds more like it lost its NVRAM config. The SLT stuff *should* be still available from the Compaq site, it was just after the HP merger. --fred From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 10 14:46:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: please help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On 10 Jun 2003, Ernest Simpson wrote: > > On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 12:09, tim wrote: > > > > > I have a Slt 286 that powers up fine and was working fine. it has > > > lotus, and word on it and when i turned it on today it says insert > > > setup disk into a: and there is no way for me to get around it. i > > > can't get to c:, please help > > > > Sounds like your hard drive might be dead. > > Actually, sounds more like it lost its NVRAM config. The SLT stuff > *should* be still available from the Compaq site, it was just after the > HP merger. The setup disks should still still be on the Compaq ftp site [ftp://ftp.compaq.com/] in the softpaq directory, but they may not be linked from the Compaq/HP website anymore. Of course, you'll first have to replace/repair the Dallas NVRAM module, otherwise the setup disk won't do much good. -Toth From ipscone at msdsite.com Tue Jun 10 14:46:29 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Rare 1906 calculator ? In-Reply-To: <3EE6491A.7287.D3BEBABA@localhost> References: <018601c32dcb$aae485a0$6409dd40@oemcomputer> <3EE6491A.7287.D3BEBABA@localhost> Message-ID: <59743.130.76.32.21.1055274123.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535682872&category=1247 > > Well, a hundred, or maybe 150 Bucks, but that's it. > For a whole grand it better looks like new and is > delivered in the original box. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > Far too poor of condition for that price. However, I suspect the seller has sold it offline and ducked some fees. It has not been relisted. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 10 15:04:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Compaq Deskpro 286 In-Reply-To: <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> References: <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Bella Oxmyx wrote: > Does anybody have a listing of translations for the drive types for a > Compaq Deskpro 286? (i.e. type , cylinders, heads, sectors) I have > couple of hard drives I'd like to add, but can't tell what drive type to > select. The setup disk doesn't have a user definable type. Sometimes you can get these systems to work with a drive with a geometry similar to one of the settings. Of course, you will usually lose a little of the drive's capacity. For the most part, is it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to install a high capacity drive in these systems due to the lack of a user definable type. I think at one time there may have been some aftermarket BIOS implementations available for the older Compaq systems that added such support, but I've not yet come across one. Another option would be to use a 3rd party HD controller that has its own BIOS. -Toth From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 10 15:31:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: <000201c32d88$65b811b0$053acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE65BF8.8137.D4086E0A@localhost> > > 150 purchases there and only had one problem with some SDRAM. And so > > what if they don't have the "legal" right to inspect your bag at the > > door, if it deters shoplifting (a cost that all of us bear) then it's > > worth the few seconds wait. > Maybe you don't mind the insinuation that you are guilty of something > until showing your receipt for someone to mark it with a highlighter > somehow magically admonishes you of any wrong-doing, but I do. Well, this (deters shoplifting which is a cost to us all) is the worst kind of pseudo socialistic propaganda I know. Yeah, let's give up some freedom 'for the good of us all' where nobody can prove that this brings any benefit? I call myself a socialist, and as such quite in favour to accepting the burden of society, but Socialism goes together with two other basic concepts: Fredom and the rule of the law. Aren't these the very basics of the 'American Sprit'? Ok, I'm going way of topic, but I'm every time again astonished how easy some give up their freedom without any need in emergency at all. Freedom is nothing which is given by nature, but something which has to be preserved every single day. It is not upheld by a some huge military deficit or paying whomever, but rather defended every day again agains atempts from _all_ sides. From government to next door neightbors. And of course companies of any kind who belive themselve to be above the law. Plese, not ment to be personal, but I've experienced people in east European contries, 20 years back, when they still hat their dictatoric regime more aware, and more eager to defense their freedon than some Americans. Ok, back to computers, as a total foreigner I was somewhat impressed by Fry's, but within less than 20 minutes I experianced the said problems of incompetence on every level and ineffective organisation - up to this weired concept of 'bag controll'. It did in no way stand up to the legend of the name. Gruss H. P.S.: Sallam, I may as well sign up atFry's for a job - no knowledge of English, and all computer knowledge totaly outdated :) -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From kempfj2 at rpi.edu Tue Jun 10 15:36:01 2003 From: kempfj2 at rpi.edu (Jesse Kempf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Big Iron (was Re: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX)) In-Reply-To: <1055260594.2121.3.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> References: <002801c32869$a07364e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001001c32e1a$bbab50e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20030608203915.5d3b52cb.kempfj2@rpi.edu> <1055260594.2121.3.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <20030610163111.69ffb3ef.kempfj2@rpi.edu> > My KL-10 is now sitting silently in my storage area waiting for me to > start work on it. I've started putting stuff on my web site about it -- > take a look! > > What I really *need* to find are a complete set of maintanence prints. > There are none to be found (so far). :-( At least the KL-10 at one point had maintanence prints. I've had no luck at all in finding info on the VAX 6000 series. Admittedly, the thing *is* microprocessor based, but there is a lot of support hardware surrounding the chips. Little of it is documented. And now that you have a PDP-10, and I have multiple VAXen, I suppose I should note thus: V4X3n 0wn3rz teh P|)P-10. -Jesse [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature] From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jun 10 16:22:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Big Iron (was Re: ...or we shoot this dog. (VAX)) In-Reply-To: <20030610163111.69ffb3ef.kempfj2@rpi.edu> Message-ID: <000401c32f95$ca2c9da0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > At least the KL-10 at one point had maintanence prints. I've > had no luck at all in finding info on the VAX 6000 series. > Admittedly, the thing *is* microprocessor based, but there is > a lot of support hardware surrounding the chips. Little of it > is documented. And now that you have a PDP-10, and I have I don't know if VAX 6000 prints ever made it out of the group that built it - prints were supplied when you were expected to swap a chip to fix a fault. You can poke around on http://vt100.net/manx to find the various VAX 6000 manuals that have made it out into the wild: no printsets but plenty of maintenance manuals and info about the various VAXBI and XMI boards. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 10 16:50:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608015603.05c68430@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030610032717.00a30d10@pop-server.socal.rr.com> When its good at Fry's, its often great, but day to day I try every place else first. Fry's is a kind of Nerd Disneyland, its got a lot of space and a lot of stuff, and frequently the only place you could be pretty sure of finding 4 out of 5 odd items, but tack on to that long long checkout lines, employees that may or may not have a clue, ie everybody from Radio Shack shrugs, to people smart enough to feed you a total line of baloney and make it sound real. Best thing I can think of for collectors are the swapmeets, ACP, TRW, and Cal Poly Pomona. ACP (6/15, 7/27), Cal Poly 3rd Sat of month, TRW last Sat of month. Scrap places used to be fun, but I am about a year out of the loop, and places have changed. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 10 16:52:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE65BF8.8137.D4086E0A@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > Well, this (deters shoplifting which is a cost to us all) is the > worst kind of pseudo socialistic propaganda I know. Yeah, let's Since the bag-check is AFTER the cash registers, it does nothing to deter shoplifting. The only thing that it has any effect on is preventing the cashiers from giving unauthorized deals to their friends. > Ok, back to computers, as a total foreigner I was somewhat impressed > by Fry's, but within less than 20 minutes I experianced the said > problems of incompetence on every level and ineffective organisation > - up to this weired concept of 'bag controll'. It did in no way stand > up to the legend of the name. Every visitor to the area should see it. Once. > P.S.: Sallam, I may as well sign up atFry's for a job - no knowledge > of English, and all computer knowledge totaly outdated :) You do NOT qualify. Your English is too good, you can read and write, you are too intelligent, you are polite, and you are aware that computers existed before this year. I do NOT expect computer expertise on the part of the sales staff. But I expect them to know the layout of the store better than I do, and on large ticket items (such as a TV), I expect them to be able to find the manual for the demo machine. And, if I ask for something that they don't carry (such as 720K diskettes), I do not want to be told that what I'm asking for does not exist. ("There isn't any such thing. All diskettes are 1.44 M") From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jun 10 18:40:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE65BF8.8137.D4086E0A@localhost> References: <000201c32d88$65b811b0$053acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610171944.01b6d8d0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Hans Franke may have mentioned these words: >Ok, I'm going way of topic, but I'm every time again astonished >how easy some give up their freedom without any need in emergency >at all. Like our new Seat Belt law... I hurt no-one by not wearing it, but it costs me $100USD if I'm caught without it -- and there have been no documented studies _that anyone can show me_ [1] with regards to how many accidents people are maimed or killed *by seat belts*, who would be alive or less injured had they not worn them. My brother is still kicking because twice he defied the law -- on 2 occasions, he would be dead if he'd worn his seat belt... And yes, I don't think it should be a crime to commit suicide, either -- it's my life![2] >Plese, not ment to be personal, but I've experienced people in east >European contries, 20 years back, when they still hat their dictatoric >regime more aware, and more eager to defense their freedon than some >Americans. Personal or not, you're quite right. Agree or disagree with the war, I *still* see so many people blame the troops for it -- it's not their fault! All they can do is the best they can... ... and yet, the "support the troops" movement for some people is a bit too strong as well -- here in the US there's a huge "push" to wear a yellow ribbon to show support for the troops -- nevermind that the song this comes from was actually for an ex-convict (someone being released from prison...) and I had one lady I never met *rip me limb from limb* when I wasn't wearing a ribbon. I simply said: "Look here, lady; I supported our troops by *being one* for 6 years." She didn't even apologize - she just walked away (quietly at least... thankfully). [snip] >P.S.: Sallam, I may as well sign up atFry's for a job - no knowledge >of English, and all computer knowledge totaly outdated :) I don't think you're qualified, Hans! You're knowledge of english is already too good, from the sounds of it, and most of the real computer knowledge I use day to day is over (or at least near) 10 years old... >VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ OnTopic: I *might* be able to make that next year - Hans, are there any really good Deutschland map websites out there? I have an uncle in ?Garmisch? (I'd have to look that up) and I served for 3 weeks in Oerbke (about 50km north of Hannover)... I've got enough American Express points that I could have 2 free European Round-Trip tickets -- the wife & I might be headed for Germany sometime - maybe I'll plan to fly there??? Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] Many people say they exist - but when I say "show me" they become conspicuously quiet... [2] It's prolly a gubbermint conspiracy - The only reason I can think of for it to be illegal to take one's own life is because it would reduce the tax income. -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 19:07:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: Message-ID: <3EE67179.2AB11917@verizon.net> Sure, for a short ride on a dry day. Try cycling 10K miles per annum that I drive. Besides don't you know that it is un-American to not use gas and support Big Oil? Eric "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > I have a choice whether to use Fry's, whereas I am forced to use the > > DMV. > No you're not. Grab a bicyle :) > > --f From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 10 19:12:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Unknown Apple 2 cards In-Reply-To: <3EE61E80.18350.D3185215@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Jun 10, 3 06:08:00 pm Message-ID: > > > PAL Colour Card: No idea as to manufacturer; mainly analogue circuitry on > > > board plus the modulator and a bit of TTL. Am I likely to need software for > > > this to work with a UK TV? > > > I don't think it'll need special software. It goes in slot 7 (only -- it > > needs some clock signals that are only on that slot), and may also > > connect to one of the aux video connectors on the mainboard. You also > > have to do the Eurapple modification (as in the TechRef -- cut and jumper > > the pads and change the crystal) unless you have a Europlus. > > Or just use an according 'PAL' Apple. There is no such thing as a PAL Apple ][ AFAIK. No Apple ][ ever generated PAL video on the mainboard. The Europlus (that's why I mentioend it) generates European TV scan rates, but the colour encoding on the mainboard is _not_ PAL. The PAL enocder card will plug into that mainboard and then generate European PAL video. The Europlus is a slightly modified Apple ][+. There are a few cut-n-jumper pads that convert the video timing chain (shown in the techref and on the schematics). The master clock crystal is a slightly different freqeuncy (I forget what). That's it. Most Apple ][s sold in Europe have been factory-modified to this spec AFAIK. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 10 19:13:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: Fry's sucks. (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 10, 3 06:53:36 pm Message-ID: > Sounds a bit like Maplin. Oh, don't get me started on Maplin. I call them 'Craplin' for a very good reason :-) > Me: "Have you got any 74LS573s in stock?" You must be joking :-). Several of the Maplin shops in the london area have 10k resistors (you know, the common 0.6W ones that everybody uses) as special-order-only items (meaning it takes at least a week to get them!). They currently sell Fluke multimeters (and have them in the shops), but don't sell the spare fuses for them (for all they're listed in the catalogue). When I say 'don't sell', I don't mean special-order-only. They are discontinued! Another of their stupid tricks is stocking half a connector, They'll keep the plug in stock but not the socket or vice versa. %deity knows why... 10 years ago, they were better. Even then I don't think I ever got everything I wanted without having to order it, but I generally got most items. And special orders took a couple of days. Now, I rarely leave the shop with _anything_ I want. Antohhr change in policy relates to the small order surchage. For as long as I can remember, small orders (less than \pounds 5.00 I think) done by mail or phone have had a surchage (\pounds 5.00 or thereabouts added to them). At one time, if you ordered the components in the shop, they would send them to your home address without a surcharge (or postage charges) since it was their fault they didn't have them in stock. Not any more. In fact they tried to convince me that the surcharge even applied to special orders delivered to the shop. My comments at that point are not repeatable on a public list! And it seems to be the case that for many items the number kept in stock at the shops is lower than the first 'price break' for discounts (if that's for 10 items, say, they'll keep 9 in the shop). If you then buy those 9 and put one on special order you _don't_ get the discount price. And they can't seem to put 10 on order if they have some in stock. The only reason I go to Maplin is because there's nowhere else. Doing an order to RS or Farnell is a pain for a few components. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 10 19:13:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: HP 9121 In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC41@lif015.vtmerlin.com> from "Davison, Lee" at Jun 10, 3 00:50:46 am Message-ID: > While dumpster diving at the end of a radio rally (what, > doesn't everyone do this?) I found, in with the usual PC > scrap, an HP 9121 dual disk unit. Right... > > The unit powers and a small LED flashes five times but > that's as far as I've got because I've not got anything > to plug it into. > > I take it I can use DSDD 3.5" disks in this and that with a Yes. IIRC. the 9121 is actually a single-sided unit (the 9122 and 9123 being the double-sided versions), but obviously you can use DD disks in it. It is double density, but not high denisty. > General Instrument HPIB card and some hand rolled code I can > try it out. Anyone done this? Any pointers to where to start? > Any online docs for the command set/protocols? It's going to be either SS/80 or Amigo protocol (I forget which). And I've never found docs one either on-line (I have some printed documentation from HP on this, which I guard with my life -- it's that hard to find!). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 10 19:13:21 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <00e501c32ef7$b2290b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "Stuart Johnson" at Jun 9, 3 09:26:27 pm Message-ID: [DD 3.5" disks] > Have you tried using a HD floppy and putting tape over BOTH sides of the > hole that marks the disk as HD? I should think that you could then format Didn't we go through this last week? The coercivity of the media is different between DD and HD disks (not very different in the case of 3.5" ones, but it's still different). I would think that in the case of 3.5" disks, you could format an HD disk as a DD one, but it will _not_ be reliable. It's the sort of thing you might have to do if DD disks become unobtainable (and then I might consider modifying the DD drive to increase the write current a bit), but while you can still easily get the right media, please use it... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 10 19:13:30 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 9, 3 07:46:39 pm Message-ID: > > > I I need a couple 3 1/2" diskette for an old 8086 six laptop too boot > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > Have you tried using a HD floppy and putting tape over BOTH sides of the > > hole that marks the disk as HD? I should think that you could then format > > the floppy as a 720 easily. I haven't tried this myself, but "Logic is the > > art of going wrong - with confidence". I write enable factory-made read-only > > 1.44 floppies in this manner, and I use ordinary frosted "scotch" tape with > > great success. > > 1) Many drives use a light and photocell to sense that hole. At least use > an opaque tape! Strangly, every 3.5" drive I've worked on (and I've taken quite a few apart for repairs) have mechanical sensors. Either switches, or mechanincal 'flags' that work with slottted opto-switches. In the latter case, of coursem the light beam goes nowhere near the hole. I don't doubt that drives using optical sensors exist, but I can't think of one at the moment. > > 2) Many 720K drives have no sensor for the "media ID" hole, so tape, etc > might turn out to be unnecessary unless/until you try to transfer files by > putting that diskette into your 1.4M drive. However, there were some > drives (THANKS, Tony!) that use that same location for the "is there a > disk in the drive" sensor. Yes. The old Sony drives (used in the HP9121, to tie in another thread) have the disk-inserted sensor (which is a flag + slotted optoswitch in this unit) in exactly the same position as the HD hole. These drives will not recognise that an unmodified HD disk has been inserted. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 10 19:13:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <00ed01c32efb$53a38440$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "Stuart Johnson" at Jun 9, 3 09:52:26 pm Message-ID: > I realize that answering one's own post isn't the best netiquette, but I > took time to try my suggestion and discovered that Windows XP Pro cannot > format a floppy EXCEPT as a 1.44. If you have a 720 floppy and need to Do I conldue from this that LuseDoze XP doesn't support 5.25" drives at all? :-( It's one thing to update defaults to correspond with the most commonly used media at the time of the OS's release, but to remove support for a device that some people may need seems to be ridiculous! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 10 19:13:50 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 9, 3 09:07:41 pm Message-ID: > EVERY DSHD drive can read "DSDD" diskettes, so long as the disk controller > supports the lower (250K) data transfer rate, and the correct > software is present. That includes every disk controller that you have > ever seen, although Tony and a few others may have some that were > originally designed for 8" that do not support the lower rates. A _really_ obscure example, relating to 3.5" disks... The original 3.5" drives rotated at 600rpm, and therefore transfered data twice as fast as the corresponding PC drives, which rotate at 300 rpm. Now by an amazing coincidence, this data rate is the same as the HD data rate for a PC drive. So a controller for the original 3.5" drive should be able to handle a PC HD drive (same data rate) with the correct programming (it would be able to fit more sectors on a track than it could with the double-speed DD drive, and would have to not moan because of the longer wait for an index pulse). But this controller couldn't handle a DD disk in a normal PC drive... -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 10 20:53:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: reading HP disk drives with HP LIF Util and HP-IB card in a PC? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030610215037.372f8a9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I was playing around with the HP LIF Utilities and found that it's supposed to be able to read a HP disk drive via a HP-IB card installed in a PC. I tried it but can't get it to work. The buss number is strange (bus 0) and it says that the drive is incompatible. Has anyone here had any experience using it that way? JOe From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Jun 10 21:28:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: HP 9121 References: Message-ID: <3EE6926B.4000905@cox.net> These drives are notorious for having broken mounts at the heads. (Best to open it up and check before popping in a disk) Sometimes they can be fixed, sometimes not. Often the magnet wires must be resoldered. I bought six of the dual disk models at surplus and managed to find only two repairable drives out of all. -Bryan From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 21:29:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: troubleshooting an SA-400 disk drive Message-ID: <3EE692AD.95B42809@verizon.net> I have been monitoring this new problem for a few days. Actually, it first surfaced weeks ago, but I had zero time to look into it. Anyway, I have a three drive Smoke Signal Broadcasting disk system, in which one drive, 2 (last one on 0,1,2 chain), has this nasty whine when powered on. The other two drives work and sound fine. The faulty one's driver motor never stops when powered on whereas the other two do. The others must have the last one due to the terminator which functioned correctly in the chain. I have managed to pull the bad drive and managed to get the two working ones to work with terminator resister moved to drive 1. I put 2's (bad drive) large electronics board onto 1's drive mechanism and it works fine. That leaves 2's drive mechanism as being bad; either the small circuit board or the drive motor. Also, when 2 is selected the red LED does light up, but no diskette can be read. Something is forcing the drive motor to stay on or the drive motor itself is defective. Any suggestions? I plan to put 1's (good drive) small electronics board onto 2's drive mechanism to see if the drive motor control or the drive motor itself is bad. Left my soldering iron at work. :^( From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jun 10 23:20:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE5E254.209A5FE3@verizon.net> Message-ID: <46CF9FA0-9BC3-11D7-AB79-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Maybe you could stop by Halted... : ^ ) www.halted.com - has a map, Near where central expressway and lawrence express way cross in Santa Clara (between sunnyvale and San Jose) In the Santa Clara location we currently have "Make an offer" racks out front. locations also in Sacramento and Rhonert Park. (ob disclaimer - I do work for Halted Ask for RON at the counter, we don't get commissions or anything but I'd say HI!) From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jun 10 23:26:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: OT: Regional Slang (was Re: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610124756.02a300f0@mail.30below.com> References: <3EE5E29E.DF04912C@verizon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20030610124756.02a300f0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3EE6ADFC.4060008@internet1.net> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Living in Michigan my whole life, I've heard it -> well, I need > Linux-speak for this: > > blow [smoke|sunshine] up your [skirt|ass] Usually I hear sunshine. > > (basically, any combo of the words in brackets, making for 4 different > variations) > > but like Ethan, I've never heard sugar come into play before.[1] > > More OT Drivel for the list... ;-) > "Merch" > > [1] I've also heard a variation with a bug crawling up one's arse - to > mean that one was quite irritable that day... Bug? Never heard that one..... usually I hear about a corn cob. I'm also in Michigan, but not exactly heavy duty corn country. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jun 10 23:36:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE6B031.7070401@internet1.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Since the bag-check is AFTER the cash registers, it does nothing to deter > shoplifting. The only thing that it has any effect on is preventing the > cashiers from giving unauthorized deals to their friends. I don't have a Fry's but there is a person at the exit/entrance to Best Buy. They don't usually stop me, on the way out. They do stop you on the way in, if you have a return, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jun 10 23:46:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <20030610115756.GD22846@snew.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030608003713.00a48880@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <000001c32d7f$f4057240$947ba8c0@p933> <20030610115756.GD22846@snew.com> Message-ID: <3EE6B2A7.9070802@internet1.net> Chuck Yerkes wrote: > Well, they under staff for weekends. Find me a store that's not > understaffed. Return on a tuesday at 4PM and you stroll through. > You also get people who haven't been yelled at all day. Best Buy sure doesn't under staff on the weekends! Usually, when I go to Best Buy it's on the weekend. They have an army of people to harrass me, with the question of, "is there anything I can help you with?". It drives me nuts, I do my best not to make eye contact with them, but still get asked. If I need help I know how to ask for it, otherwise get out of my way! >>One fun thing to try, by the way: When the Fry's bonehead at the guarded >>exit tries to search your bag, just walk on by. As it turns out they >>can't legally search your property (which the bag is the moment you pay >>for it) unless they have some reasonable belief that you are stealing. >>If they don't have this and detain you it is the equivalent of false >>arrest. Never thought of that..... I don't have a Frys though, and Best Buy doesn't usually bother people leaving. Sams Club always wants to mark receipts, though. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Jun 10 23:56:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <46CF9FA0-9BC3-11D7-AB79-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3EE6B56C.2090403@eoni.com> I'd love to, but your company's website needs work. "View Products" results in nothing to view. Search returns results but gives a server error when trying to select a product. Hard to patronize when one cannot see what's for sale. Sorta like having an Open sign in the window and locked doors. Jim Ron Hudson wrote: > Maybe you could stop by Halted... : ^ ) > > www.halted.com - has a map, Near where central expressway and > lawrence express way cross > in Santa Clara (between sunnyvale and San Jose) > > In the Santa Clara location we currently have "Make an offer" racks > out front. > > locations also in Sacramento and Rhonert Park. > > (ob disclaimer - I do work for Halted > Ask for RON at the counter, we don't get commissions or anything > but I'd say HI!) > > . From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Jun 11 00:46:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:16 2005 Subject: HP 9121 Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC44@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > It's going to be either SS/80 or Amigo protocol (I forget > which). From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Jun 11 00:50:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: HP 9121 Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC45@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > These drives are notorious for having broken mounts at > the heads. The only damage is a crack in the back of the case top where someone planted his/her size 12 boot on it. Everything else is intact, even the cageless fan. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Jun 11 01:31:01 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Yep, had read about that a few months ago. See my text on the website: www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-35/memory/core-intro.html MRAM is described (brief) at the end. Also has a link to a Motorola article! greetz, - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] > Sent: dinsdag 10 juni 2003 16:23 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? > > > There is a _new_ type of memory being developed called MRAM, > which uses magnetic fields to store data. > > An interesting quote from the article (to bring it on-topic): > > "Magnetic fields have been used to store data since time immemorial," > he joked. "We were using it in the early 1960s and 1950s." > > The article can be found at: > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-1014865.html > > Cheers, > > Bryan From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jun 11 02:25:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c32fe9$f1eafae0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Do I conldue from this that LuseDoze XP doesn't support 5.25" > drives at > all? :-( That seems a fair conclusion ... although I've been running XP on a machine with a 5.25" drive in it and didn't notice until right now :-) I have other machines with 5.25" drives so I suppose it's no great loss for me. Annoying though. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 11 02:25:45 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: troubleshooting an SA-400 disk drive In-Reply-To: Eric Chomko "troubleshooting an SA-400 disk drive" (Jun 10, 22:23) References: <3EE692AD.95B42809@verizon.net> Message-ID: <10306110820.ZM10021@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 10, 22:23, Eric Chomko wrote: > I have been monitoring this new problem for a few days. Actually, > it first surfaced weeks ago, but I had zero time to look into it. > > Anyway, I have a three drive Smoke Signal Broadcasting disk system, > in which one drive, 2 (last one on 0,1,2 chain), has this nasty whine > when > powered on. The other two drives work and sound fine. > > The faulty one's driver motor never stops when powered on whereas the > other two do. Sounds like the motor control board is faulty. > The others must have the last one due to the terminator > which functioned correctly in the chain. I have managed to pull the bad > drive and managed to get the two working ones to work with terminator > resister moved to drive 1. The terminator should be on whatever drive is last in the chain (the end of the ribbon cable). > I put 2's (bad drive) large electronics board > onto 1's drive mechanism and it works fine. That leaves 2's drive > mechanism > as being bad; either the small circuit board or the drive motor. > Also, when 2 is selected the red LED does light up, but no diskette can > be read. Motors sometimes burn out, but other faults are relatively uncommon. These motors normally have three or four wires; two are the power, and the other(s) are the tachometer signal back to the control board; this tells the control board how fast the motor is going. The tacho may be broken, but a faulty control board is more likely. If one of the other drives uses the same motor you could try swapping, which at least would tel you whether its the control board or the motor itself. The whine is probably because the motor is running far too fast, and that is why you can't read a disk. Don't let it run like this too long or you'll damage the motor. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 11 03:07:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE67179.2AB11917@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > Sure, for a short ride on a dry day. Try cycling 10K miles per annum > that I drive. :) > Besides don't you know that it is un-American to not use gas and support > Big Oil? Indeed, which is why both the Malibu LS V6 and the Cobra suck some extra gas to make up for my bicycling :) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 11 03:10:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <46CF9FA0-9BC3-11D7-AB79-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Maybe you could stop by Halted... : ^ ) > > www.halted.com - has a map, Near where central expressway and lawrence > express way cross > in Santa Clara (between sunnyvale and San Jose) Yeah, but last time I was there, some droid dropped a crate on my (already sore) foot.... we did find a load of goodies there, though :) --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 11 03:18:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Scanning Microfiche Message-ID: I think it's time to revisit the ever popular topic of scanning Microfiche. I'm in the market for a new scanner, and ran across the "Epson Perfection 3200 Photo" scanner. I was looking at it, because it's one of a very few Firewire scanners on the market. What really got me to thinking though, is the fact that it is a 3200x6400dpi scanner, and has a 4"x9" transparency adapter. This has me wondering if it wouldn't work for scanning Microfiche. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Jun 11 03:35:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Having trouble hooking up a bondwell b310sx to an external monitor References: <3EE398F0.5080006@uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <033501c32ff3$cb07cbb0$0100a8c0@athlon> Mike- There's a built in software utility pgm called BWUT. Type that- 'BWUT' - at the DOS prompt and you get a few options presented. Option 8 is the video state-- set that to VGA if it isn't already. Then use option 7 -display selection- to set the display to CRT rather than LCD. It helps to hook up the external display before you it of course! Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Cleirigh" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:13 AM Subject: Having trouble hooking up a bondwell b310sx to an external monitor > Hello, > > My father has used his bondwell b310sx for the last 10 years or so. > It's 16 shades of grey lcd screen is beginning to go so I suggested he > get an external monitor to use as the screen instead. > > However, while there is a vga output at the back where I have attached > the monitor noting appears on the screen of the monitor. > > The b310sx seems to recognize that a monitor is attached by blanking the > lcd but nothing appears on the external monitor. > > Does anyone have experiance with doing this? > > Thanks for your time, > > Mike From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 11 03:57:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <3EE59008.8090402@gorge.net> References: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3EE70ACF.12860.D6B36814@localhost> > >If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the > >DMV? > Heh Heh, I live in a small town. The wait at DMV is never more than > 5-10 mins. No stop lights either. Well, Munich is supposed to be a large city, still the waiting line is usualy less than 10 Minutes (*1) And best of all, they changed the line policies some time ago: As soon as you reachend the counter once, and you have to go for another counter, like paying a fee, you may jump the line when you return. So only one waiting, followed by a real express handling. It's a totaly new feeling. Gruss H. (*1) Ok, you're as usual screwed when some unprepaired foreigners occupie all counters. On the other hand, during the (short) opening hours they have always all counters occupied, with backup personal if one goes for a break. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jun 11 04:07:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules References: <20030609190414.6505.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EE6F009.3080607@Vishay.com> Ethan, there's a M720 circuit diagram on microfiche in my collection. I'll try to take a picture of the fiche viewer's screen with my digital camera, but it's a bit difficult due to illumination varying widely across the screen. In addition, the newer rev level is printed blurry on the film. I'll try again tonight, if I get out of the office in time. As far as I can remember from looking at the fiche yesterday, there are three SN7400N chips and one SN7460N in the circuit, together with four transistors, a couple of diodes and passive parts. Doesn't look too complicated. Andreas Ethan Dicks wrote: > Both of these are likely to be labelled "memory detection". I have > seen both appear in module listings (and, from reports, in the real > world) in slot B10 of a PDP-8/i. I keep entertaining delusions that > I will be able to upgrade my -8/i to 8K someday. This module is the > only one that I cannot borrow from another machine or my pile of spare > parts. > > ISTR the M702 contains a delay line and some buffering TTL. I'm told > that the M720 contains some TTL chips and a few transistors. > > My goal is to understand them well enough to fabricate a substitute, > either from scratch, or by co-opting some blank spaces near slot B10 and > using DEC M-series modules. > > Thanks, > > -ethan -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jpdavis at gorge.net Wed Jun 11 04:09:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> Gooijen H wrote: >Yep, had read about that a few months ago. >See my text on the website: > >www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-35/memory/core-intro.html > >MRAM is described (brief) at the end. Also has >a link to a Motorola article! > > greetz, > >- Henk. > > > IBM reports success with magnetic memory, www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp Jim. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jun 11 04:50:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> Message-ID: <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Jim Davis writes: > Gooijen H wrote: > >> Yep, had read about that a few months ago. >> See my text on the website: snip snip > IBM reports success with magnetic memory, > www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp > Jim. I remember when DRAM was 'faster than static RAM, and that was great until static ram became faster than dynamic. All a matter of technology needing something and then getting it. Nowdays fast is the word, with buss speeds over 200 mHz. Sometimes old ideas need nothing but an update. And of course volatility is a factor here too. What I've always wondered is that the main data storage is still magno-mechanical, not much fundamentally different than storage was in the 50's and 60's with diskpacks. You'd think that a completely electronic storage would have emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs? As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 05:20:00 2003 From: big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com (Todd Nathan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #641 - 55 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030611095001.80997.8643.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030611101541.44387.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> Just a thought, there is a festival coming up this next month for Apple II wackos, I'm thinking of actually going. It is in Kansas and is apparently called KFest, oh how original. Anyway, it would be neat to go and save money, if someone from Denver or CO (or Utah) is going, maybe I can hook up and carpool to save some money. Apparently Steve Wozniak is going to conduct the Keynote and be present for a good part of the week, the festival (or conference) is 5 days, with tutorials, old programming stuff, new, gettogethers, hang outs, get drunk and be silly kinda stuff.http://www.kfest.org/email me directly if you are going and want to carpool. (be smart, edit this address)Laterz Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 11 05:31:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Sayings (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <3EE5E29E.DF04912C@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3EE720F3.24905.D709E1E5@localhost> > > > >> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I > > > >>bill in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do > > > >>with/to/about a computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr > > > sales kid to > > > >>know more than I do? > > > > Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more > > > > than, "I don't know". > > > Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but > > > instead of > > > admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." > > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to the > > West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your ass" -- > > makes more sense if you ask me. > Depends on the kind of smoke. It's CA, so most likely its the good kind > of smoke. :) :) Does that work???? Anyway, over here it's literaly the same saying, 'Jemanden Zucker in den Arsch blasen' (blowin shugar up s.o. ass). So maybe it's taken from some German immigrants? (*1) The meaning is, depending of the region, either spoiling someone, or trying to convince s.o. (i.a. customer) by telling whatever he want to hear. Another similar wording is 'Dem Affen Zucker geben' (giving shugar to the ape) wich means geting back to your pet topic, or more exact giving giving the right catchword to s.o. so he'll jump right onto his pet topic. Gruss H. (*1) Of course there's still the possibility that it took the other way over the pond. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 11 05:51:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <3EE70ACF.12860.D6B36814@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > Well, Munich is supposed to be a large city, still the > waiting line is usualy less than 10 Minutes (*1) Amsterdam is likewise in size, but: it doesnt have any lines at DMV (CBR). Why? BECAUSE YOU F* CANNOT JUST GO THERE In Holland, it takes 3 *MONTHS* to get something done with or for your drivers license. Like, if you need to do a driving test, you need to apply (through a driving school, usually !) and that takes, oh, anywhere between two and three months before you get a DATE for the test. If you fail the test, all starts over again. Bah. I'll take the 1-hr DMV line anytime ;) --f From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Jun 11 05:54:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <3EE70ACF.12860.D6B36814@localhost> References: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> <3EE70ACF.12860.D6B36814@localhost> Message-ID: <1055328563.27005.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, 2003-06-11 at 04:56, Hans Franke wrote: > > >If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the > > >DMV? > > > Heh Heh, I live in a small town. The wait at DMV is never more than > > 5-10 mins. No stop lights either. > > Well, Munich is supposed to be a large city, still the > waiting line is usualy less than 10 Minutes (*1) And > best of all, they changed the line policies some time > ago: As soon as you reachend the counter once, and you > have to go for another counter, like paying a fee, you > may jump the line when you return. So only one waiting, > followed by a real express handling. It's a totaly new > feeling. Here in the Commonwealth of Virginia you theoretically only have to go to the DMV when first obtaining a Drivers License or when first registering a vehicle. Almost everything else can be done over the internet or at strategically placed ATM like machines. In fact, I was able to get on the net yesterday, update my current address, and have new Drivers License and vehicle registration cards (with the new address) mailed to me. Normal delivery time is under 5 days by US Snail. It really is a convenient service and actually makes the lines a lot shorter for the rare occasions when you do have to be physically present. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 11 05:59:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE72771.9695.D7233D79@localhost> > > Bzzt. Wrong answer...police state mentality. If you live in a > > Constitutional Republic, please pack your bags and depart for the nearest > > dictatorship immediately. > Would Holland, being a Const. Monarchy, do? :) Nope, they got frindly police men and even more don't put up unnecessary hurdles. They won't waste their time in ineffective measurements. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 11 06:21:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE72771.9695.D7233D79@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > Would Holland, being a Const. Monarchy, do? :) > > Nope, they got frindly police men and even more don't > put up unnecessary hurdles. They won't waste their > time in ineffective measurements. Who told you that? Tis a lie.. The cops are usually OK, its probably your own attitude they will reflect when dealing with you.. I am pretty much nice and friendly when dealing with a cop (the U.S. taught me that ;-) and they usally are the same with me. And, indeed, they dont *usually* stop you for silly things, like when I got pulled over and fined (heavily) for having a broken headlight. Here, they'll pull you over and let you know that the light is broken, and that it'd be better and safer to have it replaced- soon. If you're speeding, but not too much (like, say, 135 where 120 is allowed), they'll pass you, and the dude not driving will make the "dude, slow down a bit" gesture with his hands, rather than pulling you over. Stuff like that. But, Holland is full of *other* insanities, trust me. --f From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Wed Jun 11 07:31:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: troubleshooting an SA-400 disk drive References: <3EE692AD.95B42809@verizon.net> <10306110820.ZM10021@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3EE71FC1.D58452A1@verizon.net> Peter Turnbull wrote: > > On Jun 10, 22:23, Eric Chomko wrote: > > I have been monitoring this new problem for a few days. Actually, > > it first surfaced weeks ago, but I had zero time to look into it. > > > > Anyway, I have a three drive Smoke Signal Broadcasting disk system, > > in which one drive, 2 (last one on 0,1,2 chain), has this nasty whine > > when > > powered on. The other two drives work and sound fine. > > > > The faulty one's driver motor never stops when powered on whereas the > > other two do. > > Sounds like the motor control board is faulty. I'll find out when swap the good board with the one on the bad drive. > > > The others must have the last one due to the terminator > > which functioned correctly in the chain. I have managed to pull the > bad > > drive and managed to get the two working ones to work with terminator > > resister moved to drive 1. > > The terminator should be on whatever drive is last in the chain (the > end of the ribbon cable). Yes. > > > I put 2's (bad drive) large electronics board > > onto 1's drive mechanism and it works fine. That leaves 2's drive > > mechanism > > as being bad; either the small circuit board or the drive motor. > > Also, when 2 is selected the red LED does light up, but no diskette > can > > be read. > > Motors sometimes burn out, but other faults are relatively uncommon. > These motors normally have three or four wires; two are the power, and > the other(s) are the tachometer signal back to the control board; this > tells the control board how fast the motor is going. The tacho may be > broken, but a faulty control board is more likely. If one of the other > drives uses the same motor you could try swapping, which at least would > tel you whether its the control board or the motor itself. Yes, that is the plan. The motor has four wires. > > The whine is probably because the motor is running far too fast, and > that is why you can't read a disk. Don't let it run like this too long > or you'll damage the motor. Thanks. Eric > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Wed Jun 11 07:33:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: OT gas (Re: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) References: Message-ID: <3EE72044.471D5DFF@verizon.net> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Sure, for a short ride on a dry day. Try cycling 10K miles per annum > > that I drive. > :) > > > Besides don't you know that it is un-American to not use gas and support > > Big Oil? > Indeed, which is why both the Malibu LS V6 and the Cobra suck > some extra gas to make up for my bicycling :) Does Royal Dutch Shell run your government, too? > > --f From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Wed Jun 11 07:41:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Sayings (was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) References: <3EE720F3.24905.D709E1E5@localhost> Message-ID: <3EE7224F.453E3049@verizon.net> Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > >> I will agree that expecting *help* there is nuts. But folks, I > > > > >>bill in the neighborhood of $100/hr for knowing what to do > > > > >>with/to/about a computer. Can I *really* expect a $9/hr > > > > sales kid to > > > > >>know more than I do? > > > > > Perhaps not, but I sure the hell expect them to be able to say more > > > > > than, "I don't know". > > > > Why? Much better "I don't know" than "I don't know, but > > > > instead of > > > > admitting it, I'm gonna try to blow smoke up your butt." > > > I keep hearing that "smoke up your butt" stuff ever since I moved to the > > > West Coast. In the midwest, it was always "blow sugar up your ass" -- > > > makes more sense if you ask me. > > > Depends on the kind of smoke. It's CA, so most likely its the good kind > > of smoke. :) > > :) Does that work???? Maybe the smoke reference is to 'holy smoke' which may or may not work regardless of where and how it is administered. :) Also, would sugar work???? Eric > > Anyway, over here it's literaly the same saying, > 'Jemanden Zucker in den Arsch blasen' (blowin > shugar up s.o. ass). So maybe it's taken from > some German immigrants? (*1) The meaning is, > depending of the region, either spoiling someone, > or trying to convince s.o. (i.a. customer) by > telling whatever he want to hear. > > Another similar wording is 'Dem Affen Zucker > geben' (giving shugar to the ape) wich means > geting back to your pet topic, or more exact > giving giving the right catchword to s.o. so > he'll jump right onto his pet topic. > > Gruss > H. > > (*1) Of course there's still the possibility that > it took the other way over the pond. > > -- > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 11 07:43:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: KFest In-Reply-To: <20030611101541.44387.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030611095001.80997.8643.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3EE73FE2.29991.D782B9A0@localhost> > Just a thought, there is a festival coming up this next > month for Apple II wackos, I'm thinking of actually going. > It is in Kansas and is apparently called KFest, oh how > original. It's in KC, MO, not Kansas, but you're right, the difference is only small, at least from over here. > Anyway, it would be neat to go and save money, if someone > from Denver or CO (or Utah) is going, maybe I can hook up > and carpool to save some money. Apparently Steve Wozniak > is going to conduct the Keynote and be present for a good > part of the week, the festival (or conference) is 5 days, > with tutorials, old programming stuff, new, gettogethers, > hang outs, get drunk and be silly kinda stuff. > http://www.kfest.org/ Supposed to be great, I'll be there. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 11 07:51:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: OT gas (Re: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <3EE72044.471D5DFF@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > Does Royal Dutch Shell run your government, too? Dunno... in Holland, I drive a TurboDiesel car, which has a far better mileage than the others I drive in the U.S. :) --f From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Jun 11 07:55:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: OT: Suicide chicken in NZ... Message-ID: <3EE72585.BACCC177@comcast.net> Apologies for this post, but I do recall there are some guys here from Christchurch, NZ... from The Register... Suicide chicken terrorizes NZ - Kamikaze poultry the new face of international terror? 11 June 2003 12:25pm http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/31140.html -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 11 07:59:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <46CF9FA0-9BC3-11D7-AB79-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <3EE6B56C.2090403@eoni.com> Message-ID: <003d01c33018$9d7143a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> re: http://www.halted.com > Search returns results but gives a server > error when trying to select a product. The links are munged in advance by the server with a preceding "noparse#http://w..." that deactivates them. This happens when you have scripting turned off in your browser. The links would work fine _with_ this browser setting if the server didn't go and break them for you. This may be a way to keep you from trying to order online which probably actually needs the scripting active in that case, unlike for browsing which does not. Not a great design, but heck, even HP has made bad www choices in the past. > I'd love to, but your company's website needs work. Sure does. John A. I should add that I have visited HSC in 1991 and heavily in 1988 and wouldn't miss a chance to go when in town. It's a browse-in-person kind of place anyway. From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 11 08:24:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Scanning Microfiche References: Message-ID: <005f01c3301c$00369320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject? Assuming an 8.5" page is fiched at 0.25" (I don't have the exact figure handy), then to scan it an effective 200dpi, you would need 6800 dpi, both dimensions, for the fiche. If when scanning you use a photo depth of 8,24,or 48 bits at the 200 dpi you can then later up the resolution to nearly 600 dpi 2 bit printtext depth if you want to with just minimal losses. Your 3200 dpi scanner would work with 8.5" pages fiched at 0.5", but I don't think there were any done like that. John A. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 11 08:30:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <1055328563.27005.3.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <3EE70ACF.12860.D6B36814@localhost> Message-ID: <3EE74B01.12968.D7AE2828@localhost> > > > >If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the > > > >DMV? > > > Heh Heh, I live in a small town. The wait at DMV is never more than > > > 5-10 mins. No stop lights either. > > Well, Munich is supposed to be a large city, still the > > waiting line is usualy less than 10 Minutes (*1) And > > best of all, they changed the line policies some time > > ago: As soon as you reachend the counter once, and you > > have to go for another counter, like paying a fee, you > > may jump the line when you return. So only one waiting, > > followed by a real express handling. It's a totaly new > > feeling. > Here in the Commonwealth of Virginia you theoretically only have to go > to the DMV when first obtaining a Drivers License or when first > registering a vehicle. Almost everything else can be done over the > internet or at strategically placed ATM like machines. In fact, I was > able to get on the net yesterday, update my current address, and have > new Drivers License and vehicle registration cards (with the new > address) mailed to me. Normal delivery time is under 5 days by US > Snail. > It really is a convenient service and actually makes the lines a lot > shorter for the rare occasions when you do have to be physically > present. No Way. Service is the key here. I don't want to learn how to fill out the right form, or in which sequence I have to press a button, just to learn afterwards, if I had done it different I would have saved a lot of money. Nanana, I want a human beeing, which does realy give me the needed service to perform the required task. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cmcnabb at www.4mcnabb.net Wed Jun 11 08:37:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at www.4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <3EE74B01.12968.D7AE2828@localhost> References: <3EE70ACF.12860.D6B36814@localhost> <3EE74B01.12968.D7AE2828@localhost> Message-ID: <20030611133217.GB27701@www.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 03:30:09PM +0200, Hans Franke wrote: > > Nanana, I want a human beeing, which does realy give me the > needed service to perform the required task. > You are assuming, of course, that those who would work for the DMV are actually human. :-D -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jun 11 08:38:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: OT RE: Suicide chicken in NZ... Message-ID: Possibly the idea was taken from the recent movie "The Dancer Upstairs", which is about the Sendero Luminoso in Peru. IIRC, in the movie they use a chicken to deliver dinamite. I know that the real Sendero did use a dinamite-carrying duck at least once. Bob -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:dwoyciesjes@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:50 AM To: ClassicCMP Subject: OT: Suicide chicken in NZ... Apologies for this post, but I do recall there are some guys here from Christchurch, NZ... from The Register... Suicide chicken terrorizes NZ - Kamikaze poultry the new face of international terror? 11 June 2003 12:25pm http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/31140.html -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jim at jkearney.com Wed Jun 11 08:56:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) References: <001001c32f1b$f9112a20$7739cd18@D73KSM11> <3EE70ACF.12860.D6B36814@localhost> Message-ID: <008601c33020$9c8fc3a0$1301090a@xpace.net> > Well, Munich is supposed to be a large city, still the > waiting line is usualy less than 10 Minutes (*1) And > best of all, they changed the line policies some time > ago: As soon as you reachend the counter once, and you Hmm, I've gotten a license at both the DMV in CA (multiple locations), and the T?V at Muenchen Westpark, and I don't think I've ever waited more than 10 minutes. The MA RMV, OTOH, made me sign up *5 weeks* in advance to take the 15 minute multiple-choice test to get my drivers license switched from CA to here. And even don't ask about the change-of-address nightmare. That was about 10 years ago, though, and I think they're doing much better now. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jun 11 09:34:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:17 2005 Subject: KFest In-Reply-To: <3EE73FE2.29991.D782B9A0@localhost> References: <20030611095001.80997.8643.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3EE73FE2.29991.D782B9A0@localhost> Message-ID: <20030611142639.22915.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Hans Franke writes: >> Just a thought, there is a festival coming up this next >> month for Apple II wackos, I'm thinking of actually going. >> It is in Kansas and is apparently called KFest, oh how >> original. > > It's in KC, MO, not Kansas, but you're right, the difference > is only small, at least from over here. > >> Anyway, it would be neat to go and save money, if someone >> from Denver or CO (or Utah) is going, maybe I can hook up >> and carpool to save some money. Apparently Steve Wozniak >> is going to conduct the Keynote and be present for a good >> part of the week, the festival (or conference) is 5 days, >> with tutorials, old programming stuff, new, gettogethers, >> hang outs, get drunk and be silly kinda stuff. >> http://www.kfest.org/ > > Supposed to be great, I'll be there. > Me too, since I'm only 50 miles north. Wouldn't mind hooking up with some of you guys, and I know some good eateries, especially barbecue!!! K-Fest is held at Avila University, which is in the SE reaches of KC proper, not very far from Grandview, MO. Since there aren't any hotels/motels nearby, the university provides dorm rooms. Let me know who's all coming, maybe we could have an impromptu convention of classic computer guys. Even Apple II fans. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jun 11 10:08:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE6B56C.2090403@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, June 10, 2003, at 09:51 PM, Jim wrote: > I'd love to, but your company's website needs work. "View Products" > results in nothing to view. Search returns results but gives a server > error when trying to select a product. Hard to patronize when one > cannot see what's for sale. Sorta like having an Open sign in the > window and locked doors. > > Jim The "View Products" part of our website now currently has pointers to some of the people we buy stuff from to sell to the public. Stuff like our line of Basic Stamps from Parallax. Take a look at "Equipment Specials" for the bigger surplus stuff we have. Most everything else is components like resistors or ICs From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jun 11 10:10:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <37715B32-9C1E-11D7-9EC5-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 01:02 AM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Maybe you could stop by Halted... : ^ ) >> >> www.halted.com - has a map, Near where central expressway and >> lawrence >> express way cross >> in Santa Clara (between sunnyvale and San Jose) > Yeah, but last time I was there, some droid dropped a crate on > my (already sore) foot.... we did find a load of goodies there, > though :) > HEY! I resemble that remark. Hows your foot now? OK I hope. (This is my own speech here not Halted's ) > --f From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jun 11 10:23:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE74708.2080702@internet1.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > And, indeed, they dont *usually* stop you for silly things, > like when I got pulled over and fined (heavily) for having > a broken headlight. Here, they'll pull you over and let > you know that the light is broken, and that it'd be better > and safer to have it replaced- soon. Yeah, as if the driver can't figure that out on his own. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Jun 11 10:41:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV Message-ID: <200306111535.h5BFZeRS011502@io.crash.com> > The MA [ == Massachusetts ] RMV, OTOH, made me sign up *5 weeks* in > ... > That was about 10 years ago, though, and I think they're doing much > better now. They are indeed. Since I moved back from Manhattan (late '98) I've rarely had to wait more than 10 minutes for anything. In this period I've been in there quite a few times registering two different cars, taking the test for a motorcycle permit, registering a bike, etc. It's still a gummint bureaucracy, but I have to say it's not a half bad service they're running these days. --Steve. smj(at)spamfree.crash.com (lose spamfree to get through, m'kay?) From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jun 11 10:42:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE74708.2080702@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Yeah, as if the driver can't figure that out on his own. The driver can. Yes. You didnt get the point. THe cops can just as easy pull you over, fine you, and/or take your car and/or license. According to the strict letter of the law. They often dont, and, rather, politely point out that you shouldn't do that. It was meant as an example of how a government *can* be strict, but wont, and instead focus on more serious crap. --f From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 11 11:01:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: It's now Official Message-ID: <013d01c33031$ddeb4520$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> Well today I got the last piece of news about starting my non-profit museum here in Texas and I have got all the official okays from Austin (Secretary of State and Texas Comptroller). Now all that is left is to get the non-profit status ok from the IRS. I hope to start fund rising here in Texas first since they can get tax right off here and then nationwide after I get the IRS OK. So far my only cost was a $25 fee to the State plus the cost of priority mail. The IRS is going to be a little more costly with a minimum fee of $500 to file. Since I still do not have a job it's hard to spend that kind of cash right now but the cost of keeping the collection is getting higher and higher plus no one can really se it right now. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jun 11 11:07:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: It's now Official In-Reply-To: <013d01c33031$ddeb4520$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> References: <013d01c33031$ddeb4520$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030611155940.17424.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Keys writes: > Well today I got the last piece of news about starting my non-profit museum > here in Texas and I have got all the official okays from Austin (Secretary > of State and Texas Comptroller). Now all that is left is to get the > non-profit status ok from the IRS. I hope to start fund rising here in Texas > first since they can get tax right off here and then nationwide after I get > the IRS OK. So far my only cost was a $25 fee to the State plus the cost of > priority mail. The IRS is going to be a little more costly with a minimum > fee of $500 to file. Since I still do not have a job it's hard to spend that > kind of cash right now but the cost of keeping the collection is getting > higher and higher plus no one can really se it right now. Sounds great, and it looks like the paperwork isn't a big hurdle like other places. I know the situation, no income makes a pinch on cash flow. No cash, no flow!!! Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jun 11 11:28:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> References: <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030611122129.06383ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > You'd think that a completely electronic storage would have > emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs? FLASH Memory, Solid State Disk Drives, etc. They do now exist. At 04:42 AM 6/11/03 -0500, you wrote: >Jim Davis writes: >>Gooijen H wrote: >>>Yep, had read about that a few months ago. >>>See my text on the website: >snip snip >>IBM reports success with magnetic memory, >>www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp >>Jim. > >I remember when DRAM was 'faster than static RAM, and that was great until >static ram became faster than dynamic. All a matter of technology needing >something and then getting it. >Nowdays fast is the word, with buss speeds over 200 mHz. Sometimes old >ideas need nothing but an update. And of course volatility is a factor >here too. >What I've always wondered is that the main data storage is still >magno-mechanical, not much fundamentally different than storage was in the >50's and 60's with diskpacks. You'd think that a completely electronic >storage would have emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs? >As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to >make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . . >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO From acme at ao.net Wed Jun 11 11:33:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: ZX81 Kits (was:cctalk digest, Vol 1 #633) Message-ID: <200306111628.h5BGSfZX010020@eola.ao.net> From: Hans Franke Subject: Re: ZX81 Kits (was:cctalk digest, Vol 1 #633) Date: 06/10/2003 1:29 PM > Jup, and understandable. I still have a hard time > to get a complete picture here. I tried several times > to order a bunch of ZX81s from him, back when he > asked 29.95, and when the price rose to 49.95. I > never got any reply. I tried eMail and since this > didn't work Fax and finaly a real letter. > > And I wanted to buy more than just one little Kit. > > Now, I have a hard time to see any business minded > structure (and the whish to earn money) in ignoring > potential customers at all. Well, I've done a certain amount of business with Mr. Newfeld, and every transaction has been a little flaky around the edges: order (and prepay for) two kits, only receive one, wrong product received, etc. The last time *he* called *me* and told me about some obscure expansion devices he had "found" in his warehouse, and did I want them? We agreed on a price, he charged my Visa, and two months later I still had not received the merchandise. He then stopped answering my phone calls and emails, and, sadly, I had to threaten one of his subordinates over the phone in order to get Mr. Newfeld's attention. Ultimately, he did not ship the promised goods, but sent something else instead. Also, I and others have made *very* generous offers to him concerning large quantities of other merchandise he claims to have "mountains" of, and his response has been to ignore us. No counter-offer, nothing but dead silence. This is the behavior of someone who's "trying to make a living?" Seems counter-productive to me . . . almost like some sort of weird power trip . . . Glen Goodwin Orlando, FL USA 0/0 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 11 11:33:11 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: need 720k 3 1/2" disks In-Reply-To: <000601c32fe9$f1eafae0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > Do I conldue from this that LuseDoze XP doesn't support 5.25" > drives at all? :-( Just the FORMAT on the desktop. The FORMAT at the command line still has /T:x /N:y, but /F:z has been dropped to only "1.44" From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jun 11 11:33:22 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030611122129.06383ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: > > You'd think that a completely electronic storage would have > > emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs? > > FLASH Memory, Solid State Disk Drives, etc. They do now exist. It should also be noted that magnetic memories have been making a comeback for about 20 years now...along with integrated circuits with tubes... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jun 11 11:51:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030611122129.06383ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030611114451.019fa098@mail.ubanproductions.com> Does anyone know if there are problems with close proximity magnetic fields and MRAM? --tom From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Jun 11 12:07:00 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #641 - 55 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030611095001.80997.8643.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a copy of MicroRSX V4.x which I can install > > > on a MicroPDP-11/53 ? I have a very old version (label says > > > V1 !) but although it will install on the /53, it freezes > > > after the final reboot, probably when it hits some feature > > > specific to the /53. > > > > Why on earth are you looking for a copy of MicroRSX? The system can run > > RSX-11M or M+, either of which are far better. > > Yeah, well, the guy that owns the box used to run MicroRSX on it, > and asked if it could be made to run that again. > > So, teh question is: is it around? Sure. Just ask Mentec. They're still selling it. http://www.mentec-inc.com/ Micro/RSX is at V4.6 currently. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 11 12:16:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) Message-ID: <200306111711.KAA26797@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Hans Franke" > >> >If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the >> >DMV? > >> Heh Heh, I live in a small town. The wait at DMV is never more than >> 5-10 mins. No stop lights either. > >Well, Munich is supposed to be a large city, still the >waiting line is usualy less than 10 Minutes (*1) And >best of all, they changed the line policies some time >ago: As soon as you reachend the counter once, and you >have to go for another counter, like paying a fee, you >may jump the line when you return. So only one waiting, >followed by a real express handling. It's a totaly new >feeling. > >Gruss >H. Hi At least the Santa Cruz DMV does have lines any more. You take the number and sit down and read your mail or whatever. They call you when you are next. Dwight From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 11 12:53:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <200306111711.KAA26797@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3EE7886D.27391.D89E1898@localhost> > >> >If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how about the > >> >DMV? > >> Heh Heh, I live in a small town. The wait at DMV is never more than > >> 5-10 mins. No stop lights either. > >Well, Munich is supposed to be a large city, still the > >waiting line is usualy less than 10 Minutes (*1) And > >best of all, they changed the line policies some time > >ago: As soon as you reachend the counter once, and you > >have to go for another counter, like paying a fee, you > >may jump the line when you return. So only one waiting, > >followed by a real express handling. It's a totaly new > >feeling. > At least the Santa Cruz DMV does have lines any more. > You take the number and sit down and read your mail > or whatever. They call you when you are next. Well, that's what I ment with lines. They have Displays which always show the next valid numbers. Allowed to enter (Exept you're arleady in the process beeing 'served') H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From emu at ecubics.com Wed Jun 11 13:08:00 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <3EE770F4.7030102@ecubics.com> Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to > make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . . Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got rid of all static in space having all this graphite flying around through the air ... ;-) From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 11 13:45:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Request for Bylaws Copy Message-ID: <01b501c33048$cbc5c3e0$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> Can anyone on the list that has set up a non-profit email me a copy of their bylaws? Or tell me where I may see them online. Since the IRS says they are public documents I hope someone could share what they put together with me. Thanks in advance. Send to jrkeys at concentric.net From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 11 14:03:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <3EE770F4.7030102@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <001001c3304b$728f9a00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen? ----- Original Message ----- From: "emanuel stiebler" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? > Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > > As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to > > make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . . > > Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got rid of all static in > space having all this graphite flying around through the air ... > ;-) From kth at srv.net Wed Jun 11 15:05:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <3EE770F4.7030102@ecubics.com> <001001c3304b$728f9a00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EE79411.4050907@srv.net> TeoZ wrote: >Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen? > > It wouldn't matter much which one you used. The one that needs sharpening would have a somewhat higher volume of conductive dust floating around, but both generate stray carbon dust, and conductive chunks that break off when used. I'd rather not have to worry about loose pieces of flamable conductive dust floating around. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "emanuel stiebler" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:12 PM >Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? > > > > >>Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: >> >> >>>As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to >>>make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . . >>> This is just an urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm Just because it sounds too good to be true, doesn't make it true. ;=) >>Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got rid of all static in >>space having all this graphite flying around through the air ... >>;-) >> >> Fischer saw a business opportunity, and designed a pen that would work in space. They initially sold 400 to NASA at 2.95 each. That's a lot less than 1.5 million. They made more selling them to the public as a pen that could write upside down. From philliphale at cox.net Wed Jun 11 15:11:00 2003 From: philliphale at cox.net (Phillip Hale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: for sale decstation 5000/125 complete system Message-ID: i have a DECstation 5000/125 system (case,monitor,keyboard,mouse,cables,MAGMA SBUS I/O card). i don't know what it is worth so please be honest if anyone wants to make an offer. i live in San Diego California so think about shipping costs. ...real offers only please... my email- philliphale@cox.net From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 11 15:21:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <3EE770F4.7030102@ecubics.com> <001001c3304b$728f9a00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <3EE79411.4050907@srv.net> Message-ID: <003a01c33056$5c981fa0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me then the stray pencil lead dust. That or if the heat tiles on the shuttle are still there on the way back home. Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen environment for no particular reason? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Handy" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? > TeoZ wrote: > > >Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen? > > > > > It wouldn't matter much which one you used. The one that needs > sharpening would have a somewhat higher volume of conductive > dust floating around, but both generate stray carbon dust, and > conductive chunks that break off when used. > > I'd rather not have to worry about loose pieces of flamable conductive > dust floating around. > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "emanuel stiebler" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:12 PM > >Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? > > > > > > > > > >>Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > >> > >> > >>>As a humorous sideline: When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to > >>>make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . . . . > >>> > This is just an urban legend. > > http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm > > Just because it sounds too good to be true, doesn't make it true. ;=) > > >>Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got rid of all static in > >>space having all this graphite flying around through the air ... > >>;-) > >> > >> > > Fischer saw a business opportunity, and designed a pen that would work > in space. They initially sold 400 to NASA at 2.95 each. That's a lot less > than 1.5 million. They made more selling them to the public as a pen that > could write upside down. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 15:21:15 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules In-Reply-To: <3EE6F009.3080607@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20030611201639.34822.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Ethan, > > there's a M720 circuit diagram on microfiche in my collection. I'll try > to take a picture of the fiche viewer's screen with my digital camera, > but it's a bit difficult due to illumination varying widely across the > screen. In addition, the newer rev level is printed blurry on the film. > I'll try again tonight, if I get out of the office in time. That's OK. Al Kossow sent me a copy. It's in his scanned docs for the PDP-12. > As far as I can remember from looking at the fiche yesterday, there are > three SN7400N chips and one SN7460N in the circuit, together with four > transistors, a couple of diodes and passive parts. Doesn't look too > complicated. Nope... it looks pretty straightforward. All I need are some 7460s. :-) Thanks for looking, though. -ethan From tosteve at yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 15:25:00 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Bell Labs MAC-8 CPU / programmer in a suitcase = ??? In-Reply-To: <3EE79411.4050907@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030611202035.61248.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> I saw this at a local computer joint - a Bell Labs suitcase programmer with a MAC-8 CPU? The manual was from 1979. What do you make of it? Should I pick it up for anyone here? Thanks- Steve. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 11 15:33:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: HP 9121 In-Reply-To: <3EE6926B.4000905@cox.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030611161626.3a9f1e52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I missed the first part of this thread but if you're talking about HP 9121 disk drives then you must be kidding. I've used plenty of these drives and I've never found one with a damaged head. The 9121 is VERY reliable. I wish I could say the same for the HP 9122! (And all the other HP drives that use the same bare drive such as the 9153, 9133 and HP IPC). I've seen plenty of them with deamaged heads due to the mechanism not lifting all the way and the top head hitting the disk cartridge. BTW I've bought loads of these surplus and I don't think I've ever found a bad one. Joe At 07:22 PM 6/10/03 -0700, you wrote: >These drives are notorious for having broken mounts at the heads. (Best >to open it up and check before popping in a disk) Sometimes they can be >fixed, sometimes not. Often the magnet wires must be resoldered. I >bought six of the dual disk models at surplus and managed to find only >two repairable drives out of all. > >-Bryan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 11 15:33:19 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: HP 9121 In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC44@lif015.vtmerlin.c om> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030611162916.3a9f1646@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:41 AM 6/11/03 +0100, you wrote: >> It's going to be either SS/80 or Amigo protocol (I forget >> which). > >From what I've found it's most likely Amigo I have one HP manual that says that the 9121 uses the Amigo protocall and another that says that it uses SS-80. However I believe that it is Amigo. > >> (I have some printed documentation from HP on this, which >> I guard with my life -- it's that hard to find!). > >No chance of a .txt version? What kind of docs are you looking for? Joe From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jun 11 15:40:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? Message-ID: My favorite is that the re-entry heat shields on early missions were not ceramic, like ours, but were made of green oak. -----Original Message----- From: TeoZ [mailto:teoz@neo.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 3:17 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jun 11 16:59:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <003a01c33056$5c981fa0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: > Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me > then the stray pencil lead dust. NASA was also very concern about the conductive carbon dust or particles causing electrical problems. > Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart > idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen > environment for no particular reason? There was a sound reason - use a high oxygen atmosphere, so you can lower the pressure inside the capsule and still have it breathable. With a lower pressure inside, the walls of the capsule can be much thinner, saving weight. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aeg at paradise.net.nz Wed Jun 11 16:59:49 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (aeg@paradise.net.nz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: OT: Suicide chicken in NZ... In-Reply-To: <3EE72585.BACCC177@comcast.net> References: <3EE72585.BACCC177@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1055368471.3ee7a5172f102@www.paradise.net.nz> Amazing... The press here must have been told by the Government to hush this one up! I was oblivious to the threat of poultry... And people say that farm animals have been domesticated! Alan Christchurch, NZ Quoting David Woyciesjes : > Apologies for this post, but I do recall there are some guys here from > Christchurch, NZ... > > from The Register... > > Suicide chicken terrorizes NZ > - Kamikaze poultry the new face of international terror? > 11 June 2003 12:25pm > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/31140.html > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jun 11 17:06:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <001001c3304b$728f9a00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <3EE770F4.7030102@ecubics.com> <001001c3304b$728f9a00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen? I'd probably opt for something like a wax pencil or maybe a non-graphite black or blue colored pencil. I've seen some of them which are "sharpened" by peeling off a layer of paper that's wrapped around the lead. -brian. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 11 17:21:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? Message-ID: <200306112216.PAA26997@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "William Donzelli" > >> Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me >> then the stray pencil lead dust. > >NASA was also very concern about the conductive carbon dust or particles >causing electrical problems. > >> Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart >> idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen >> environment for no particular reason? > >There was a sound reason - use a high oxygen atmosphere, so you can lower >the pressure inside the capsule and still have it breathable. With a >lower pressure inside, the walls of the capsule can be much thinner, >saving weight. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > Hi The big error was having a bunch of wires dangling through the hatch where they could get squished. The oxygen was a contributing factor. They were practicing in reduced atmosphere to look for potential problems. As William stated, they needed the increase oxygen level to keep from passing out. I zero G, fire doesn't spread much. Dwight From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 11 17:28:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? References: Message-ID: <007a01c33068$14881320$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath because of the buildup of co2. So lowering the pressure and just using oxygen wouldnt help much would it? Besides 100% oxygen makes things that are normally low combustible highly combustible. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? > > Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me > > then the stray pencil lead dust. > > NASA was also very concern about the conductive carbon dust or particles > causing electrical problems. > > > Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart > > idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen > > environment for no particular reason? > > There was a sound reason - use a high oxygen atmosphere, so you can lower > the pressure inside the capsule and still have it breathable. With a > lower pressure inside, the walls of the capsule can be much thinner, > saving weight. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jun 11 17:34:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <007a01c33068$14881320$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <007a01c33068$14881320$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath > because of the buildup of co2. So lowering the pressure and just using > oxygen wouldnt help much would it? Besides 100% oxygen makes things > that are normally low combustible highly combustible. Take a cubic meter of air at STP. Remove all the non-essential gasses, leaving only the oxygen behind. You'll end up with same amount of oxygen necessary to support human life, but the overall pressure will be lower owing to the lack of those useless gasses. Well, that's my educated guess at least. -brian. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 11 17:36:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <003d01c33018$9d7143a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, John Allain wrote: > I should add that I have visited HSC in 1991 and heavily > in 1988 and wouldn't miss a chance to go when in town. > It's a browse-in-person kind of place anyway. A bit pricey though. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 11 17:36:14 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: OT: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <003a01c33056$5c981fa0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me > then the stray pencil lead dust. > That or if the heat tiles on the shuttle are still there on the way back > home. > > Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart > idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen > environment for no particular reason? Actually, both us and the Russians did that; they even did it first. Of course, it happened to them 'behind closed doors' so we didn't get a chance to learn from their mistake. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 11 17:39:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: It's now Official In-Reply-To: <013d01c33031$ddeb4520$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Keys wrote: > priority mail. The IRS is going to be a little more costly with a minimum > fee of $500 to file. Since I still do not have a job it's hard to spend that > kind of cash right now but the cost of keeping the collection is getting > higher and higher plus no one can really se it right now. $500...that's about the same amount as 2-3 weekends of scrounging old computer stuff, isn't it? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 11 17:56:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? References: Message-ID: <00a501c3306c$0802ac60$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Yes, some russian caught something on fire in a test situation and it went up like the hindenburg before he could put it out. I worked at a company for over a year that did work with liquid oxygen, and after it went into a heat exchanger oxygen gas. Its interesting what will burn in the presence of pure o2 gas. Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and allowed to seep into it can be very explosive (a leak of liquid o2 into a parking lot made of asphault cane make one huge explosion under certain circumstances). Now that I think about it doesnt nitrogen gas in your blood cause the bends when you go from a higher pressure to a lower pressure (as in diving)? So if your breathing normal air and you have a pressure drop in the capsule your in for a world of hurt and that would affect your ability to fix the leak. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: OT: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? > On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me > > then the stray pencil lead dust. > > That or if the heat tiles on the shuttle are still there on the way back > > home. > > > > Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart > > idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen > > environment for no particular reason? > > Actually, both us and the Russians did that; they even did it first. Of > course, it happened to them 'behind closed doors' so we didn't get a > chance to learn from their mistake. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jun 11 18:11:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: It's now Official In-Reply-To: <013d01c33031$ddeb4520$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> References: <013d01c33031$ddeb4520$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Keys wrote: > Well today I got the last piece of news about starting my non-profit > museum here in Texas and I have got all the official okays from Austin > (Secretary of State and Texas Comptroller). Now all that is left is to > get the non-profit status ok from the IRS. I hope to start fund rising > here in Texas first since they can get tax right off here and then > nationwide after I get the IRS OK. So far my only cost was a $25 fee > to the State plus the cost of priority mail. The IRS is going to be a > little more costly with a minimum fee of $500 to file. Since I still > do not have a job it's hard to spend that kind of cash right now but > the cost of keeping the collection is getting higher and higher plus > no one can really se it right now. At first glance, there seems to be some matters of practicality and skewed priorities here. If your collecting continues to result in higher storage costs and you have no source of income, exactly how do you expect to keep your collection, long-term? Unless you're positive that your non-profit operation will generate enough revenue to cover all the expenses for your museum, you really should be focusing your efforts on finding some steady employment in your spare time. If you've noticed, there's kind of a trend at the moment of people selling off their collections to make ends meet. I don't think anyone here wants to find themselves in that situation, nor do we want to see our peers end up in that kind of predicament. Make sure you've got the essentials addressed first: food, clothing, shelter, health insurance, and some means to maintain them into the forseeable future. You can probably live inside one of the larger computer enclosures, but AFAIK, you still can't eat or usefully wear computers. -brian. From aek at spies.com Wed Jun 11 18:15:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Bell Labs MAC-8 CPU / programmer in a suitcase = ??? Message-ID: <200306112312.h5BNCt19004099@spies.com> Should I pick it up for anyone here? -- I'm interested. I have one, but not the manual. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 11 18:25:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? Message-ID: <200306112319.QAA27032@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Brian Chase" > >On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > >> Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath >> because of the buildup of co2. So lowering the pressure and just using >> oxygen wouldnt help much would it? Besides 100% oxygen makes things >> that are normally low combustible highly combustible. > >Take a cubic meter of air at STP. Remove all the non-essential gasses, >leaving only the oxygen behind. You'll end up with same amount of >oxygen necessary to support human life, but the overall pressure will >be lower owing to the lack of those useless gasses. > >Well, that's my educated guess at least. > >-brian. > Hi Brian is correct. They run the capsules at lower pressure so that they don't have to make the skins as thick and can reduce overall weight. Humans also breath to bring in oxygen as well as to exhale CO2. It is kind of a dual purpose. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 11 18:34:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: HP 9121 In-Reply-To: <3EE6926B.4000905@cox.net> from "Bryan Blackburn" at Jun 10, 3 07:22:35 pm Message-ID: > These drives are notorious for having broken mounts at the heads. (Best No. The _double sided_ drives, used in just about every other HP drive unit of the time, are notorious for having the top head ripped off. The grease on the eject linkages goes hard, the eject mechanism doesn't latch up correctly, and the top head is ripped off by the disk as it ejects. The 9121 has single-sided drives, and doesn't have this problem. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 11 18:34:22 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: troubleshooting an SA-400 disk drive In-Reply-To: <3EE692AD.95B42809@verizon.net> from "Eric Chomko" at Jun 10, 3 10:23:41 pm Message-ID: > I have been monitoring this new problem for a few days. Actually, > it first surfaced weeks ago, but I had zero time to look into it. > > Anyway, I have a three drive Smoke Signal Broadcasting disk system, > in which one drive, 2 (last one on 0,1,2 chain), has this nasty whine > when > powered on. The other two drives work and sound fine. > > The faulty one's driver motor never stops when powered on whereas the OK... [...] > as being bad; either the small circuit board or the drive motor. The small circuit board is the spindle motor speed controller. It normally contains an LM2917 Tachometer IC and a few other components. The spindle motor has 4 wires -- 2 are for the DC (brush-type) motor, the other 2 are the AC tachometer generator. The frequency of the latter is measured by the LM2917 and used to control the spindle motor. On this PCB there's a power transistor, often a darlington type. If this shorts (and it sometimes does) you get exactly the problem you're seeing. The spindle motor runs at full speed all the time (hence the whine) > > Also, when 2 is selected the red LED does light up, but no diskette can > be read. Not suprising. The motor is running far too fast. > > Something is forcing the drive motor to stay on or the drive motor > itself is defective. I can't think of a fault in the spindle motor that would cause this. If the tacho winding goes open circuit (_very_ uncommon), the motor will run at maximum speed when turned on by the controller, but the controller will be able to stop the motor.The fact that the motor runs all the time implies a fault on the control PCB (the 'small circuit board'). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 11 18:34:32 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: HP 9121 In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC44@lif015.vtmerlin.com> from "Davison, Lee" at Jun 11, 3 06:41:28 am Message-ID: > > (I have some printed documentation from HP on this, which > > I guard with my life -- it's that hard to find!). > > No chance of a .txt version? It's a couple of fairly thick sections in a couple of manuals. Sometime I must type it all up, but it will take some time... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 11 18:34:43 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: HP 9121 In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC45@lif015.vtmerlin.com> from "Davison, Lee" at Jun 11, 3 06:45:03 am Message-ID: > Everything else is intact, even the cageless fan. That's a somewhat strange fan, BTW. It's a capacitor-run AC motor that runs off the xecondary of the power transformer. The run capacitor is on the main PCB, near the fan connector. That's why it's got 3 wires.... -tony From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 11 18:58:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: It's now Official References: <013d01c33031$ddeb4520$9e09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00b601c33074$b9951280$347ca418@neo.rr.com> If your the type that runs into alot of equipment while your looking for your treasure why not sell the "other" stuff to people who collect that equipment to help pay for your stuff? Or sell your expertise in an area to other people who need it. I had an old boss who liked cars and had quite a few including some expensive tools and a 5 car garage/shop next to his house. He would buy projects to add to his collection at the same time helping others out with their simular vintage cars for a small profit that fed his collection. His main job paid for his normal household bills, transportation food etc. he had a nice collection of peoples names and their collecting habbits so when he went to the car swap meets he would find stuff at a bargain that he resold to his friends who needed them at a slightly higer price. So basically most of his parts and collection was paid for by other hobbiest through labor and selling of parts. His other hobies (he had many including computers) went the same way. He would also barter so when he needed help on his computers from me, I would get some help on my 81 vette from him. It also helps to narrow your focus to a few select models so you can comfotably house your collection before it ends up owning you. Alot of machines are cool to have, but there is always storage and the perpetual upgrades you need that kill you. Oh and if you want people to see your collection record videos of the equipment operating with some explanation of whats going on and setup a website. This way alot of what you know gets put into writing and organised in a way others can learn from it. Websites are alot cheaper, easier to get to, and cheaper then a real museum. A collection thats packed in storage takes up alot less space then a static one of museum quality. Just have a large work area where they system your working on can be viewd and filmed. I for one would love to see a set of video's of equipment that was taken from the scrap heap to mint condition step by step with text describing what each phase of the restoration was and why it was done. That would be far more interesting then a finished box in the corner with a nameplate on it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:06 PM Subject: Re: It's now Official > On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Keys wrote: > > > Well today I got the last piece of news about starting my non-profit > > museum here in Texas and I have got all the official okays from Austin > > (Secretary of State and Texas Comptroller). Now all that is left is to > > get the non-profit status ok from the IRS. I hope to start fund rising > > here in Texas first since they can get tax right off here and then > > nationwide after I get the IRS OK. So far my only cost was a $25 fee > > to the State plus the cost of priority mail. The IRS is going to be a > > little more costly with a minimum fee of $500 to file. Since I still > > do not have a job it's hard to spend that kind of cash right now but > > the cost of keeping the collection is getting higher and higher plus > > no one can really se it right now. > > At first glance, there seems to be some matters of practicality and > skewed priorities here. If your collecting continues to result in > higher storage costs and you have no source of income, exactly how do > you expect to keep your collection, long-term? Unless you're positive > that your non-profit operation will generate enough revenue to cover all > the expenses for your museum, you really should be focusing your efforts > on finding some steady employment in your spare time. If you've > noticed, there's kind of a trend at the moment of people selling off > their collections to make ends meet. I don't think anyone here wants to > find themselves in that situation, nor do we want to see our peers end > up in that kind of predicament. > > Make sure you've got the essentials addressed first: food, clothing, > shelter, health insurance, and some means to maintain them into the > forseeable future. You can probably live inside one of the larger > computer enclosures, but AFAIK, you still can't eat or usefully wear > computers. > > -brian. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 11 19:57:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? Message-ID: <200306120052.RAA27079@clulw009.amd.com> Hi More back on subject, the MRAM looks like it is a non-distructive read, unlike the core. Back on cores: It seems like they also used a 1/2 opposite inhibit while doing reads to give them a little more noise margine. This way, cores without a x or y would have a 1/2 wrong way and those with only x or y driven would have 1/2 positve. The matching would get 2 - 1/2 or a full 1.5 write. Both X and Y would be driven with the average Im, of all of the cores, and not half. Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 21:06:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:18 2005 Subject: OT Spacecraft atmosphere (was Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030612020127.76856.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath > > because of the buildup of co2. That, and to intake O2. > > So lowering the pressure and just using oxygen wouldnt help much > > would it? On the contrary... (see below) > > Besides 100% oxygen makes things > > that are normally low combustible highly combustible. That is certainly true. > Take a cubic meter of air at STP. Remove all the non-essential gasses, > leaving only the oxygen behind. You'll end up with same amount of > oxygen necessary to support human life, but the overall pressure will > be lower owing to the lack of those useless gasses. > > Well, that's my educated guess at least. That's it. It's due to the partial pressure gas law... our respiratory systems depend on there being O2 at around 0.20 atmospheres. It doesn't really matter (within limits) what "inert" gasses are mixed with it. It's not about total pressure - it's only the partial pressures of the individual consituents that matter for the a variety of physical processes to work, including respiration. CO2 is used as a regulator as well as being a waste gas - we detect CO2 buildup in our lungs and regulate the breathing rate to keep it down below, IIRC, 1%-2%. Heliox is great for diving because it's a mix of O2 plus He2 to about one Atm... solves the pressure problem at depth plus the problem of N2 at depth being bad for you. Other gasses would work, too, but AFAIK, He2 is used for cost as well as inertness (by-product of the natural gas industry, IIRC). As an aside, there's a heliox tank that visitors can suck on at the local science museum. All the fun of a Donald-Duck-voice without the unpleasant side-effects of pure Helium! (asphyxiation, embolism, etc.) Humans can survive in a 100% oxygen atmosphere at ~20-25% of pressure at sea-level, but there are other, non-biological consequences, mainly severely increased risk of fire. -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 11 21:11:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: HP 9121 In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC47@lif015.vtmerlin.c om> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030611220814.3a872bb8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Lee, I'm posting a copy of this on the CC list as well as replying directly to you since this is of interest to several of the list members. At 11:20 PM 6/11/03 +0100, you wrote: >Hello Joe, > >> I missed the first part of this thread but if you're talking about HP >> 9121 disk drives ... > >We were. I dragged one out of a dumpster on Sunday. Oh. I did see your message about that. As far as I can see >the only thing wrong is a crack in the case top where someone stood on >it. I just tossed a complete but GRUNGY 9121 in the trash. If you want the case let me know before the trashman gets here and I'll rescue it for you. It was FILTHY. The outside cleaned up pretty well but bugs had been living inside and it was full of dirt and debris. I took it apart and tried to clean it up but finally gave up in disgust. The drives were packed full of crud. I cleaned them as best as I could without going through a complete rebuild. One drive seems to work but the head wouldn't seek on the other and it's pulling too much current. Both had gobs of stuff wound up on the lead screw and that may be what's jamming it. I spent several hours working on the thing and finally decided that it just wasn't worth the trouble so I tossed the whole mess. > >> What kind of docs are you looking for? > >I'm looking for the Amigo and/or SS/80 protocoll docs so I can roll my >own code to drive the HP 9121 from a PC using an HP-IB card. I just >want to test the thing, it would be nice if it works. Well you're in the right place at the right time. We were discussing these protocalls on the list a few weeks ago. Peter Brown asked some questions some of the protocalls and that's what started that entire discussion. Frank McConnel scanned and posted one of the protocalls on a web site. Contact him and ask about the address. I THINK it was the SS-80 protocall. Peter is working on a program to read CS-80 disks on a PC via a GPIB card and he has a working version of it. He's sent me a copy but I have to set up a W'98 machine to run it on. I think Peter wants to add Amigo and SS-80 support in addition to the CS-80. ALSO FWIW several of us including Steve Robertson have been playing around with the old HP 1000 computers and are writing our own operating system for it. Steve has written a driver for the CS-80 hard drives and has it working (crude but workable he says). Also I've been playing around with the old HP LIF Utilities. LIF stands for Logical Interchange Format and was widely used by HP for some of their early disk drives. LIF is a real simple format and it's also like the old tape format. HP has now placed the LIF Utils in the public domain and you can download them from HP for free. The utils are supposed to alow you to read, write, initialize and format LIF disks on a PC but the other day I noticed that it also said that it would support LIF disk drives connected to a PC via a HP-IB card so I decided to try it. I've played with that a little but I haven't been able to get it to work. I posted a question about it on the list a couple of days ago but didn't get any responses. I got the PC to recognize the drive but it keep saying that the disk was incompatible. I used THE SAME drive and disk with a HP-85 so I know they're compatible. I don't think the HP-85 writes a LIF format so I can understand why the PC couldn't read the disk but I should have been able to format and initialize it but couldn't so there's something else going on. I was using a National Instruments GP_IB card and that might be the problem but the utils recognized it and didn't complain about it so I don't know for sure. I some HP HP_IB cards so I'll have to install one, find the drivers for it and see if that's the problem but that's going to take some time too. I've got several projects cooking right now that take priority but when I get time I'm dabbing around with trying to interchange files between the HP-85, 9000 200s and a PC. I've done some work on it but at the moment I'm mostly just gathering up drives, systems and SW to try out. When I get everything I'll sit down and do some serious research. FWIW I can read a disk written by a HP-85 on a 82901 disk drive in a PC drive using LIF but the programs are stored in a tokenized format so it comes out as mostly garbage. There's no option on a 85 to save the program files in an ASCII format but there is one in the HP 9000 200s so I should be able to trasnfer files between the 9000 200s and a PC via sneaker net. One the things that I'm going to try is to read a tokenized HP-85 file into a 9000 200 (or something else like an Integral PC) and then resave it in an ASCII format so that it can be transferred to a PC. So there you go. Lots of avenues to pursue! Let me know what you come up with. > >Then I'll have to get an HP computer. Good! Go to it. A LOT of HP computers support that HP 9121 drive. The HP 85*, 86, 87 or any of the HP 9000 200 or 300 series. I'm sure that many of the newer 9000 series also support it but I'm not familar enough with them to tell you which ones. * The original HP-85 needs a Mass Storage ROM but the 85B has it built in. I think all the 86s and 87s have it built in. Joe From webmaster at digitaldinos.com Wed Jun 11 21:45:01 2003 From: webmaster at digitaldinos.com (DigitalDinos Webmaster) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Tandy 600 Message-ID: The most recent FAQ for the Tandy 600 can be found at www.digitaldinos.com in its Classic Computer Information section. Please link to the home page of the site as the FAQ's location is bound to change as the years go on. The Tandy 600 Software Archive is located at www.30below.com/~zmerch/classics/Tandy600 and is operated by Roger "Merch" Merchberger. You may login anonymously; just use your email account as your password if asked. From skidmore at worldvenue.org Wed Jun 11 21:45:51 2003 From: skidmore at worldvenue.org (Barry Skidmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Help Installing LA75 Printer on 11/23 under RT-11 Message-ID: <1055270320.2220.10.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> I just acquired an 11/23 with RT-11 5.03. It has a DZV11-A board that I would like to use to interface a LA75 serial printer. Running 'show' indicates an LS slot. I have a set of RT-11 documentation and the 11/23 manual, but so far have not found instructions on how to do this. Thanks for any help, Barry Skidmore -- Barry Skidmore From skidmore at worldvenue.org Wed Jun 11 21:46:02 2003 From: skidmore at worldvenue.org (Barry Skidmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Substitute for DEC SS/QD Floppies Message-ID: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> I am looking for blank disks to use in a DEC RX50 drive. I have seen posted several places that DD disks can be used, but so far my attempts to initialize Verbatim DS/DD disks under RT-11 have failed: "?DUP-F-Size function failed" Thanks, Barry -- Barry Skidmore From kenneth.hurd at navy.mil Wed Jun 11 21:46:12 2003 From: kenneth.hurd at navy.mil (Hurd, Kenneth Steven CIV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail? (Was: stepping machanism Message-ID: Hello, Do you know how to get ignore as one of the error prompts along with abort, fail, retry? I could not find the answer in DOS help. Thank you. Ken. From madyn at ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 11 21:46:23 2003 From: madyn at ix.netcom.com (Harvey White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer, some basic questions: Message-ID: I've just gotten one, without the instruction manual, of course. Seems that it needs to save to HP-IB instruments and so forth, also can us HP-IL.... I'll have to see if I can find data on HP-IL, might be worth rolling an interface for it, or just stick to the IEEE-488.... Question: Is this model supposed to be able to remember setups between sessions, or does it lose its memory when the power goes off? Kinda silly for HP to design it like that, so I wonder if there's not a backup battery that's down. Harvey madyn@ix.netcom.com From halefamily3 at cox.net Wed Jun 11 21:46:34 2003 From: halefamily3 at cox.net (Hale Family) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: for sale decstation 5000/125 complete system Message-ID: i have a DECstation 5000/125 system (case,monitor,keyboard,mouse,cables,MAGMA SBUS I/O card). i don't know what it is worth so please be honest if anyone wants to make an offer. i live in San Diego California so think about shipping costs. ...real offers only please... my email- philliphale@cox.net From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 11 22:00:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Substitute for DEC SS/QD Floppies In-Reply-To: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> Message-ID: On 10 Jun 2003, Barry Skidmore wrote: > I am looking for blank disks to use in a DEC RX50 drive. I have seen > posted several places that DD disks can be used, but so far my attempts > to initialize Verbatim DS/DD disks under RT-11 have failed: > > "?DUP-F-Size function failed" You can't format RX50's with any Dec PDP-11 hardware. You probably can with a VAXstation 2000, or using a PC and the proper software - there's instructions for doing it under Linux with a 1.2MB floppy drive and DSDD disks on the web. If you want to I can probably find them. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 11 22:24:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail? (Was: stepping machanism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Hurd, Kenneth Steven CIV wrote: > Hello, > Do you know how to get ignore as one of the error prompts along with abort, > fail, retry? > I could not find the answer in DOS help. > Thank you. > Ken. YOU don't. Based on the type of error, the DOS "critical error handler" displays all of the options that it thinks are aprropriate for the current problem. If IGNORE isn't showing up, then it is explicitly because IGNORE is not an appropriate way to handle that error. For example, if you try to copy a file and DOS gets a "Sector Not Found" while reading the DIRectory to find the file, then IGNOREing the error and copying the file even though it was not found is not a viable option. What version of DOS are you dealing with? What kind of error are you trying to sweep under the rug? If you still want to IGNORE the error, and pretend that everything worked when it really didn't, AND DESTROY ALL REMAINING INTEGRITY OF YOUR DATA, then you can write a TSR that contains a critical error handler that replaces the stock one, and intercept the interrupt. PCTools did that, in order to prevent "Abort, Retry, Ignore" messages from messing up their screen displays. They caused millions of dollars worth of damage to data, including thousands of dollars worth of damage in my company. May they be stuck in MICROS~1 operating systems for the rests of their hopefully short miserable lives. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jun 11 23:19:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE7FD4E.2080904@internet1.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > The driver can. Yes. You didnt get the point. THe cops can > just as easy pull you over, fine you, and/or take your car > and/or license. According to the strict letter of the law. > They often dont, and, rather, politely point out that you > shouldn't do that. Just because you have a headlight out that may even have just blown? That doesn't sound like politeness to me, that sounds more like they know it's "legal" to put the screws to the citizens, and are lording that fact over them. If I have a headlight out, I already KNOW that it needs to be replaced, that's elementary. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jun 11 23:29:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Substitute for DEC SS/QD Floppies In-Reply-To: References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030611212752.02727ec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:01 PM 6/11/03 -0500, you wrote: >On 10 Jun 2003, Barry Skidmore wrote: > > > I am looking for blank disks to use in a DEC RX50 drive. I have seen > > posted several places that DD disks can be used, but so far my attempts > > to initialize Verbatim DS/DD disks under RT-11 have failed: > > > > "?DUP-F-Size function failed" > >You can't format RX50's with any Dec PDP-11 hardware. You probably can >with a VAXstation 2000, or using a PC and the proper software - there's >instructions for doing it under Linux with a 1.2MB floppy drive and DSDD >disks on the web. If you want to I can probably find them. Get yourself a Dec-Rainbow to format them :) or the Pro380 IIRC will format RX-50's :) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jun 11 23:44:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Digital circuit notation conventions Message-ID: I figure this is at least somewhat on topic. I've been reading through _The Art of Digital Design_ by Prosser and Winkel [1] to with the intention of building the PDP-8/I clone project outlined in the book. I skipped ahead to the meaty chapters outlining the design of the system; I found myself pleasantly surprised. I can say that I've a reasonable understanding of how it all works. I can certainly understand the fascination people have with the "8"; it's not that hard at all to wrap one's brain around it. Having satisified myself that I'm up to the task, I've now moved to reading the initial chapters so I'll understand the basics. There are a few rough spots where I feel the authors impatiently gloss over some of the topics. And then there's one section in the second chapter where they basically deride "postive logic" and "negative logic" notation conventions as evil while promoting what they claim to be their own "mixed logic" convention. Methought they protested /a bit/ too much, and not being familiar with what it proper or put into practive, I pulled out Horowitz and Hill [2] to see what they had to say. From what I can tell, they seem to be advocates of "assertion-level logic" notation--which looks to be the same as Prosser and Winkel's mixed logic. What I'm wondering is whether mixed logic and assertion-level logic notations are in fact the same, and then which notation convention(s) are most commonly found in practice. It was only a decade ago that I had my intro to digital logic design lectures and labs, but I don't remember there being any discussion of different notation conventions. Then again, it's possible that ten years worth of software knowledge has squeezed out what hardware bits we covered. -brian. [1] The Art of Digital Electronics: An Introduction to Top-Down Design, 2nd Ed, Franklin P. Prosser and David E. Winkel, Prentice Hall, 1987. [2] The Art of Electronics, 2nd Ed., Paul Horowitz and Winfield Hill, Cambridge University Press, 1989. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jun 12 00:25:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c330a2$402de290$8f3acd18@D73KSM11> > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > Well, at least you concede it's logic. 8-) My point was > that to read > > an insinuation into it you would have to believe, in a somewhat > > paranoid way, that they think everyone might be stealing from them. > > Yes, I do believe that, otherwise why would they employ the > practice? The fact is, they check everyone's receipt because > they don't trust their customers. It's not my paranoia, it's theirs. > I don't see it that way. They check everyone so that they'll necessarily sweep in the crooks and would be crooks. Whether it's effective is a separate question. > > If you want to talk about long lines, waits and delays, how > about the > > DMV? > > You know, in California, there's a law in the Vehicle Code > that says that no patron of the DMV shall have to wait in > line more than something like 4 minutes. It doesn't lay out > what the repercussions are if you are made to wait longer > than that time, but I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. > Can you say "governmental immunity"? Sure, I knew you could. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jun 12 00:28:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610171944.01b6d8d0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <001701c330a2$be4c9130$8f3acd18@D73KSM11> > Like our new Seat Belt law... I hurt no-one by not wearing > it, but it costs > me $100USD if I'm caught without it Not true at all. If you're broke and you get injured in a wreck because you're not wearing it, guess who pays? From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 12 00:59:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Univac III sold? Message-ID: Looks like the Univac III lot actually may have resulted in a sale. Check it out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2733726990&category=1247&rd=1 The one who bought it seems like a good guy (you can read his "Me" profile). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 12 01:45:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE8207B.10306@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >>They do, and so what? I'm not stealing anything, so I cannot be >>bothered by them wanting to check my bag in the hopes to find the >>bad guys. Similar to some woman freaking out at the (SFO) airport, >>'cos one of the green boys wanted to search her bag. If you have >>nothing to hide, why bother screaming? > > Bzzt. Wrong answer...police state mentality. If you live in a > Constitutional Republic, please pack your bags and depart for the nearest > dictatorship immediately. I wouldn't want the lack of concern you have > for due process and unlawful search and seizure to devalue my rights. OK. In the last day, I've asked 4 people - my wife, the Bubba next door, my brother in Dallas, and a girl shopping in Walgreen's - the same question. "When you get asked to show your bag & receipt leaving CompUSA, do you see that as an invasion of your privacy?" All four answered no, my brother and the girl in Walgreens added that it's irritating, but no big deal, and they all four ended with the same comment: "I guess it would be an invasion if I was stealing something...." So, Sellam. What's up with that? Doc From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 12 01:56:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0C7B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <3EE6EFA9.8050607@gorge.net> <20030611094210.18824.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> <3EE770F4.7030102@ecubics.com> <001001c3304b$728f9a00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EE822DD.7050709@internet1.net> Brian Chase wrote: > I'd probably opt for something like a wax pencil or maybe a non-graphite > black or blue colored pencil. I've seen some of them which are > "sharpened" by peeling off a layer of paper that's wrapped around the > lead. > > -brian. That's a grease pencil..... I wouldn't want to use one for paper work. They're better suited for writing on plastic surfaces. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 12 01:57:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE8207B.10306@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Doc wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > >>They do, and so what? I'm not stealing anything, so I cannot be > >>bothered by them wanting to check my bag in the hopes to find the > >>bad guys. Similar to some woman freaking out at the (SFO) airport, > >>'cos one of the green boys wanted to search her bag. If you have > >>nothing to hide, why bother screaming? > > > > Bzzt. Wrong answer...police state mentality. If you live in a > > Constitutional Republic, please pack your bags and depart for the nearest > > dictatorship immediately. I wouldn't want the lack of concern you have > > for due process and unlawful search and seizure to devalue my rights. > > OK. In the last day, I've asked 4 people - my wife, the Bubba next > door, my brother in Dallas, and a girl shopping in Walgreen's - the same > question. > > "When you get asked to show your bag & receipt leaving CompUSA, do > you see that as an invasion of your privacy?" > > All four answered no, my brother and the girl in Walgreens added that > it's irritating, but no big deal, and they all four ended with the same > comment: > > "I guess it would be an invasion if I was stealing something...." > > So, Sellam. What's up with that? I don't know. Maybe because you live in Texas? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 12 02:04:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE8207B.10306@mdrconsult.com> References: <3EE8207B.10306@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3EE824DE.2070409@internet1.net> Doc wrote: > OK. In the last day, I've asked 4 people - my wife, the Bubba next > door, my brother in Dallas, and a girl shopping in Walgreen's - the same > question. > > "When you get asked to show your bag & receipt leaving CompUSA, do you > see that as an invasion of your privacy?" > > All four answered no, my brother and the girl in Walgreens added that > it's irritating, but no big deal, and they all four ended with the same > comment: > > "I guess it would be an invasion if I was stealing something...." > > So, Sellam. What's up with that? > > > Doc They're not thinking about what's going on..... they're just taking the easy way out, so they can deal with the things that immediately concern them. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From asholz at topinform.com Thu Jun 12 02:55:01 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: reading HP disk drives with HP LIF Util and HP-IB card in a PC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030610215037.372f8a9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030610215037.372f8a9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EE830CD.8080300@topinform.com> Joe wrote: > I was playing around with the HP LIF Utilities and found that it's >supposed to be able to read a HP disk drive via a HP-IB card installed in a >PC. I tried it but can't get it to work. The buss number is strange (bus 0) >and it says that the drive is incompatible. Has anyone here had any >experience using it that way? > > JOe > > > > Joe, which kind of LIF-Utilities? - for the PC? Where are these utilitiels available? Andreas From brian at quarterbyte.com Thu Jun 12 02:56:00 2003 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: IBM Unit Record equipment on eBay Message-ID: <3EE7CEA4.9608.AC9E00AF@localhost> Hey folks, There is some interesting (and heavy) IBM unit record equipment up for auction on ebay. View http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=27353 14909 and click on "View Seller's Other Auctions" for the whole list: IBM 077 collator IBM 083 sorters (two) IBM 088 collator plugboards and manual only IBM 548 alphabetic interpreter IBM 129 keypunch Documation RM600LCC card reader The minimum bids are reasonable for all but the Documation reader. It's interesting and relatively rare stuff -- shouldn't be let to go to scrap. Also, I got my Documation reader working tonight -- it was misreading because of worn feed rollers. I learned a lot about the these machines trying to diagnose and fix that. The USB interface is finished and working now (if anyone wants the schematic and code, write to me), and I was able to read in the system load deck for APL\1130. So -- sometime in the next few weeks the IBM 1130 emulator will have APL and a bunch of other old code I have here on cards. Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jun 12 02:56:11 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: ; from Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 22:35:47 CEST References: Message-ID: <20030611230006.A273727@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.11 22:35 "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > My favorite is that the re-entry heat shields on early missions were > not ceramic, like ours, but were made of green oak. That is actually smart. Wood conducts heat very bad. So you have a good heat insulation effect. The wood will burn, but you can calculate quite precice how much wood will be burned. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Thu Jun 12 03:04:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Suicide chicken in NZ... References: <3EE72585.BACCC177@comcast.net> Message-ID: <042601c330b8$95722f70$0100a8c0@athlon> Yeah! Strange things go on over there in Sydenham-must be something to do with being on the wrong side of the tracks! Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ (but definitely NOT in Sydenham!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: "ClassicCMP" Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 12:50 AM Subject: OT: Suicide chicken in NZ... > Apologies for this post, but I do recall there are some guys here from > Christchurch, NZ... > > from The Register... > > Suicide chicken terrorizes NZ > - Kamikaze poultry the new face of international terror? > 11 June 2003 12:25pm > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/31140.html > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From cheri-post at web.de Thu Jun 12 04:55:01 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: IBM 1401 on eBay Germany Message-ID: <200306120950.h5C9orQ19076@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Hi all ! Check out this auction: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735735348&category=21926 On the picture, you can see the hole mainframe as it is sold. The olny thing is, that the seller doesn't say if the machine still works. Wow, I thought that auctions like these only exist in the states... Pierre ______________________________________________________________________________ UNICEF bittet um Spenden fur die Kinder im Irak! Hier online an UNICEF spenden: https://spenden.web.de/unicef/special/?mc=021101 From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jun 12 05:09:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules References: <20030611201639.34822.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EE845CB.5090909@Vishay.com> Hello Ethan, (M720 circuit diagram) > > That's OK. Al Kossow sent me a copy. It's in his scanned docs for the > PDP-12. And it's certainly better quality than what I got from the fiche reader screen. In case somebody else wants to try: I got readable quality with a few simple measures. In a dark room to avoid reflections, set the camera's shutter control to "dark night mode" and put the camera on a tripod. Since mine doesn't have a remote trigger capability, I used the timer function to avoid touching the camera, so it would be steady while taking the picture. For my setup, it didn't make a difference in the final picture whether I set the fiche reader to "high" or "low" light. Even though the picture gets darker towards the corners, in a 1,600 by 1,200 (2M pixel) .JPG you can read about everything that is readable on the screen. >>As far as I can remember from looking at the fiche yesterday, there are >>three SN7400N chips and one SN7460N in the circuit, together with four >>transistors, a couple of diodes and passive parts. Doesn't look too >>complicated. > > > Nope... it looks pretty straightforward. All I need are some 7460s. :-) These are certainly harder to get than the 7400s, but it appears to me that the 7460 is actually used a a kind of delay line: since all inputs of each gate are tied together, there is no logic function involved, so maybe you can get away with something completely different. Since I had the fiche looked up already: the only difference between the original schematics and Rev. A is C7: it had ".005MFD" originally and was changed to ".02MFD" in Rev. A. Looks like the one-shot made from E3 needed a longer trigger pulse. > Thanks for looking, though. > > -ethan You're welcome! - I also used the opportunity to test what the camera can do for me. Now that I have the procedure: If you need anything else, let me know. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 12 07:27:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail? (Was: stepping machanism Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030612082227.0fdfd940@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:58 PM 6/10/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > > Do you know how to get ignore as one of the error prompts along with abort, >fail, retry? > > I could not find the answer in DOS help. There's an undocumented command option to enter the F(ail) but I don't know of one to enter I(gnore). Use /F with the Shell command in the Config.sys file. Here's the config.sys file from my old drive. DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /testmem:off DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE 1024 BUFFERS=17 FILES=40 DOS=UMB LASTDRIVE=Z FCBS=4,0 REM BUFFERS=17,0 DOS=HIGH SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /p /f DEVICE=C:\DOS\ANSI.SYS DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE switches=/f STACKS=9,256 rem DEVICEHIGH /L:1,13904 =C:\SB16\DRV\SBCD.SYS /P:220 /S:A0 /D:MSCD001 >NUL rem device=c:\utils\nav_.sys Joe > > Thank you. > > Ken. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 12 07:28:24 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer, some basic questions: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030612081943.47674098@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:19 PM 6/10/03 -0500, you wrote: >I've just gotten one, without the instruction manual, of course. > >Seems that it needs to save to HP-IB instruments and so forth, also >can us HP-IL.... > >I'll have to see if I can find data on HP-IL, might be worth rolling >an interface for it, or just stick to the IEEE-488.... Stick to 488, it's a lot easier to use and a lot easier to find. You need a special IC for the IL interface and it hasn't been available for a LONG time. There are some good docs available the describe the IL systems but even those are mostly collectors items now. > > >Question: Is this model supposed to be able to remember setups >between sessions, or does it lose its memory when the power goes off? > >Kinda silly for HP to design it like that, so I wonder if there's not >a backup battery that's down. I THINK there is. I used to have a 1630 but it's been a LONG time since I've worked on it. Joe > >Harvey > >madyn@ix.netcom.com From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jun 12 07:30:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Jun 11, 3 11:48:18 pm" Message-ID: <200306121237.FAA13728@floodgap.com> > > "When you get asked to show your bag & receipt leaving CompUSA, do > > you see that as an invasion of your privacy?" > > All four answered no, my brother and the girl in Walgreens added that > > it's irritating, but no big deal, and they all four ended with the same > > comment: > > "I guess it would be an invasion if I was stealing something...." > > So, Sellam. What's up with that? > I don't know. Maybe because you live in Texas? :) *rofl* -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm taking punk totem pole carving." ----- From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 12 07:31:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: IBM 1401 on eBay Germany In-Reply-To: <200306120950.h5C9orQ19076@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Check out this auction: > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735735348&category=21926 > > On the picture, you can see the hole mainframe as it is sold. > The olny thing is, that the seller doesn't say if the machine still works. > > Wow, I thought that auctions like these only exist in the states... That is one nice system. Of course, they used an old photo, rather than a photo of the actual system up for bid. And the starting price is a bit high. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 12 07:33:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: IBM Unit Record equipment on eBay In-Reply-To: <3EE7CEA4.9608.AC9E00AF@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Brian Knittel wrote: > There is some interesting (and heavy) IBM unit record equipment up > for auction on ebay. View > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=27353 > 14909 > and click on "View Seller's Other Auctions" for the whole list: > > IBM 077 collator > IBM 083 sorters (two) > IBM 088 collator plugboards and manual only > IBM 548 alphabetic interpreter > IBM 129 keypunch > Documation RM600LCC card reader > > The minimum bids are reasonable for all but the Documation reader. > It's interesting and relatively rare stuff -- shouldn't be let to go > to scrap. I don't know why they decided to start the 548 at $300. Otherwise, it's some pretty nice stuff, but the shipping alone will be $1,000 on everything. I hope it goes somewhere besides the scrapyard. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jun 12 07:44:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer, some basic questions: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030612081943.47674098@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030612081943.47674098@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200306120839.50287.jcwren@jcwren.com> You can save the current session, but the base unit (without a mass storage device attached via 488) only saves the current setup. It's on the System screen, the option at or very near the bottom. I'd have to dig up my service manual for my 1630, but I believe they use EEPROM for backup. There's a disk drive available, the 9122C, if you can find them (not exceedingly rare, maybe 1 or 2 show up on eBay every 4 months). They tend to go for around $150 last time I checked. I've thought it would be nice to have a 9122C emulator for the PC. I have a 488 PCI card (National makes them), and I think with a little software, it could be a mass storage device. That'd be pretty neat to have a rack of virtual diskettes to store setup configs based on projects and such. --John On Thursday 12 June 2003 04:19 am, Joe wrote: > At 07:19 PM 6/10/03 -0500, you wrote: > >I've just gotten one, without the instruction manual, of course. > > > >Seems that it needs to save to HP-IB instruments and so forth, also > >can us HP-IL.... > > > >I'll have to see if I can find data on HP-IL, might be worth rolling > >an interface for it, or just stick to the IEEE-488.... > > Stick to 488, it's a lot easier to use and a lot easier to find. You need > a special IC for the IL interface and it hasn't been available for a LONG > time. There are some good docs available the describe the IL systems but > even those are mostly collectors items now. > > >Question: Is this model supposed to be able to remember setups > >between sessions, or does it lose its memory when the power goes off? > > > >Kinda silly for HP to design it like that, so I wonder if there's not > >a backup battery that's down. > > I THINK there is. I used to have a 1630 but it's been a LONG time > since I've worked on it. > > Joe > > >Harvey > > > >madyn@ix.netcom.com From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jun 12 08:06:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <3EE7FD4E.2080904@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3EE879AE.DD656F79@comcast.net> Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > The driver can. Yes. You didnt get the point. THe cops can > > just as easy pull you over, fine you, and/or take your car > > and/or license. According to the strict letter of the law. > > They often dont, and, rather, politely point out that you > > shouldn't do that. > > Just because you have a headlight out that may even have just blown? > That doesn't sound like politeness to me, that sounds more like they > know it's "legal" to put the screws to the citizens, and are lording > that fact over them. If I have a headlight out, I already KNOW that it > needs to be replaced, that's elementary. > > Chad Fernandez Well, I have to add, around here in the city areas where I live, it does happen frequently that people _don't_ realize they have one headlight out. With all of the streetlamps around, its difficult to tell the difference. There have been a few times, when I'm in a rush that I don't even notice for a bit that mine are not even on. So, when an officer does stop me to tell me I have a problem with my vehicle, I thank him for his politeness... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 12 08:27:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: IBM 1401 on eBay Germany References: <200306120950.h5C9orQ19076@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: <001101c330e5$9dc540e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735735348&category=21926 I say the guy gets no bids. Germany is the home of most of the great advances in photography, yet the guy puts a single lowRes scan of a manual page photo. Of course anybody near him could go and get a look and see for themselves and then bid. Too bad we can't at least see it remotely. Thanks for posting this. John A. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jun 12 08:35:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <3EE824DE.2070409@internet1.net> References: <3EE8207B.10306@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3EE89DB3.5830.DCD930EF@localhost> > > OK. In the last day, I've asked 4 people - my wife, the Bubba next > > door, my brother in Dallas, and a girl shopping in Walgreen's - the same > > question. > > "When you get asked to show your bag & receipt leaving CompUSA, do you > > see that as an invasion of your privacy?" > > All four answered no, my brother and the girl in Walgreens added that > > it's irritating, but no big deal, and they all four ended with the same > > comment: > > "I guess it would be an invasion if I was stealing something...." > > So, Sellam. What's up with that? > They're not thinking about what's going on..... they're just taking the > easy way out, so they can deal with the things that immediately concern > them. You're not working for some kind of FUD agency? Sounds like some official government policies, keep the people occupeid by some shit, so nobody realy cares if you take away their rights. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jun 12 08:37:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Univac III sold? Message-ID: >Looks like the Univac III lot actually may have resulted in a sale. Check >it out: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2733726990&category=124 >7&rd=1 Did the guy on the first try have a final bid of $11,000 but it didn't meet his reserve? To then sell it for $7,500... that's gotta hurt. But hey, serves him right for being greedy. -chris From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 12 09:47:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030612094015.01a31498@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hello, I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. Thanks! --tom From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jun 12 10:11:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: <001701c330a2$be4c9130$8f3acd18@D73KSM11> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610171944.01b6d8d0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030612103308.01d08148@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Wayne M. Smith may have mentioned these words: > > Like our new Seat Belt law... I hurt no-one by not wearing > > it, but it costs > > me $100USD if I'm caught without it > >Not true at all. If you're broke and you get injured in a wreck because >you're not wearing it, guess who pays? The insurance company. It's been deemed (by our gubbermint) illegal for insurance companies to a) issue discounts to those who do wear their belts, and b) not cover those who aren't wearing their belts. Besides, no matter who's fault it is anyway, with no-fault insurance, it doesn't matter. It's my family who'll pay if I'm killed *because* of the damn things. In the last 10 years, I've avoided 5 accidents - all would have been the other drivers' fault (running red lights, etc.), 1 was without any passengers, 3 times the passenger[s] (once their hearts got back out of their throats) said "How'd you miss that? That should've been an accident!" and 1 was with a passenger who was a trucker for a long time... in a totally calm voice, all he said was "What a dumbfuck." What kind of compensation would I receive if I was injured *worse* due to a seatbelt? They're a gamble, just like life. More importantly, whatever happened to *personal responsibility*??? Regards, Roger "Merch" Merchberger P.S. The few accidents I have been in (none of which involved another vehicle if I was at fault - I always steer for the ditch in times of trouble) I *never* wore the belt, and I *always* walked away from them. -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jun 12 11:00:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610171944.01b6d8d0@mail.30below.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030612103308.01d08148@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <013101c330fa$fdee0e60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Regarding ----> Subject: RE: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Does this thread win some kind of award for being the single longest most off-topic thread in list history? Geeze! I've already nixed it from the cctech list completely :) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 12 11:01:03 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules In-Reply-To: <3EE845CB.5090909@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20030612155601.14905.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > >>As far as I can remember from looking at the fiche yesterday, there are > >>three SN7400N chips and one SN7460N in the circuit... > > > > Nope... it looks pretty straightforward. All I need are some 7460s. > :-) > > These are certainly harder to get than the 7400s, but it appears to me > that the 7460 is actually used a a kind of delay line: since all inputs > of each gate are tied together, there is no logic function involved, so > maybe you can get away with something completely different. That is logically consistent with what I recall about the M702 - It has a delay line similar to what's on the M360 and M310 modules. I don't know exactly why, but there needs to be some amount of delay in the memory field detection process... perhaps to let some other part of the circuit stabilize first. > Since I had the fiche looked up already: the only difference between the > original schematics and Rev. A is C7: it had ".005MFD" originally and > was changed to ".02MFD" in Rev. A. Looks like the one-shot made from E3 > needed a longer trigger pulse. Good to know. Thanks for the tip. *Now* I need to find a spec sheet for an SN7460 and see what its propogation delay is. I can probably estimate based on other members of its family, but in this particular case, the specifics will matter. Obviously, I won't be substituting a 74HCT part or a 5ns GAL. :-) -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jun 12 11:09:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon Message-ID: >P.S. The few accidents I have been in (none of which involved another >vehicle if I was at fault - I always steer for the ditch in times of >trouble) I *never* wore the belt, and I *always* walked away from them. And you are LUCKY! I can say this, not from some "study" that was done, but from hands on experience. In the last 13 years, I have operated roughly 6 major motor vehicle accidents a year, so figure roughly 78 major car accidents. Extricated an average of 3 people per accident, so I've cut roughly 230 people out of cars. So out of 230 people... exactly TWO have sustained fewer injuries as a direct result of not wearing a seat belt. I know both incidents well as for both of them, we looked and said, "WOW, lucky they didn't wear their seatbelt today or this could have been much worse". I can't tell you how many I have looked at and said "if only they had their seatbelt on, they would probably be walking away right now". And I haven't seen an accident yet that the person sustained greater injuries due to the seatbelt (this is a tough thing to judge, so I am basing it off the types of injuries they sustained and where the car was damaged and where they may have been thrown had they not worn their seatbelt). Much of the "myth" that seatbelts cause greater injuries are based on facts BEFORE shoulder straps were in use. Lap belts only can cause greater injuries, but that is why they moved to shoulder straps as well (and airbags are a wonderful creation for the occupants... horrible for EMS workers if they don't deploy on impact... they have a frightening tendency to fail) So if you want to continue to gamble on that 0.8% chance that you will walk away because of not wearing a belt, go right ahead. Me... I buckle up every time I am in a car, regardless of what seat I am in (and I won't move a car I am driving until the front passenger is buckled in... I do leave rear seats up to the riders). Oh, but I do have to agree with you... if you fail to wear a belt, it is you that gets hurt, no one else. I have not seen ONE accident where someone that failed to wear a belt caused a greater injury on anyone but themselves. (However, I can give you stories of load shift that have caused greater injuries... in my opinion, it is more dangerous to have unsecured objects in the car than unsecured passengers). -chris From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jun 12 11:25:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: Request For Assistance with National Instruments Unibus GPIB Controller Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030612121456.00a58b60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> re: Request For Assistance with National Instruments Unibus GPIB Controller If anyone wants to take on this project, this apparently is an oil exploration company in Texas that is CAT scanning rocks probably in support of oil exploration? GPIB 11-2 ... Assy 179002-01 Rev G Assy 179003-01 Rev G HexWid do you know how to hook one of these up? John Welch Westport Technology Center, Intl 6700 Portwest Houston TX 77024 713-479-8420 You negotiate your own terms as you see fit. From tosteve at yahoo.com Thu Jun 12 12:57:01 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:19 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 needs repair, can you help? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030612121456.00a58b60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030612175210.8815.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jun 12 13:30:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Substitute for DEC SS/QD Floppies In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:01:18 CDT." Message-ID: <200306121747.SAA10439@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Patrick Finnegan said: > On 10 Jun 2003, Barry Skidmore wrote: > > > I am looking for blank disks to use in a DEC RX50 drive. I have seen > > posted several places that DD disks can be used, but so far my attempts > > to initialize Verbatim DS/DD disks under RT-11 have failed: > > > > "?DUP-F-Size function failed" > > You can't format RX50's with any Dec PDP-11 hardware. You probably can > with a VAXstation 2000, or using a PC and the proper software - there's > instructions for doing it under Linux with a 1.2MB floppy drive and DSDD > disks on the web. If you want to I can probably find them. Also putr for DOS: http://www.dbit.com/ Although I've not been able to persuade my RX50 to read disks formatted by it, but I've not really tried hard yet... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jun 12 13:43:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Totaly OT: DMV (Was: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon) In-Reply-To: <20030611133217.GB27701@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <3EE74B01.12968.D7AE2828@localhost> Message-ID: <3EE8E5D9.12503.DDF30669@localhost> > > Nanana, I want a human beeing, which does realy give me the > > needed service to perform the required task. > You are assuming, of course, that those who would work for the DMV are > actually human. Be shure, I'll make them :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 12 13:44:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Dec/Compaq 2.88 floppy drives In-Reply-To: References: <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030612112943.032bece0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Can the 2.88 floppys used on alphaservers work on a PC? such as http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735659907&category=162&rd=1 From dtillson at xmission.com Thu Jun 12 14:06:00 2003 From: dtillson at xmission.com (David Tillson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Systems In-Reply-To: <20030612170001.96009.72707.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030612124215.01133520@mail.xmission.com> I have a number of Wang computers, printers, circuit boards, manuals, software, disks, training manuals etc. that are taking up needed space. The computers include a portable with a built in printer; a desktop system with a color monitor, and several OIS systems. The printers include 2 daisy wheels, a dot matrix and 2 laser systems (HP's with a Wang label). Available for the cost of shipping from Salt Lake, Utah. David Tillson dtillson@xmission.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 12 14:07:20 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Dec/Compaq 2.88 floppy drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030612112943.032bece0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > Can the 2.88 floppys used on alphaservers work on a PC? > such as > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735659907&category=162&rd=1 For direct "normal" connection, you need a "non-standard" disk controller that supports a 1000K bits per second data transfer rate. There have been some, and some PS/2's (IBM, NOT "Play Station"!) included support. But those controllers are not very common. Alternatively, MicroSolutions made a "Backpack" parallel port external 2.8M drive. I used one for many years. I suppose that you COULD modify a 2.8M for 150RPM, ... From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jun 12 14:38:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: IBM Unit Record equipment on eBay References: <3EE7CEA4.9608.AC9E00AF@localhost> Message-ID: <007201c33119$78012430$2108dd40@oemcomputer> Wished I lived closer. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Knittel" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:51 AM Subject: IBM Unit Record equipment on eBay > Hey folks, > > There is some interesting (and heavy) IBM unit record equipment up > for auction on ebay. View > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=27353 > 14909 > and click on "View Seller's Other Auctions" for the whole list: > > IBM 077 collator > IBM 083 sorters (two) > IBM 088 collator plugboards and manual only > IBM 548 alphabetic interpreter > IBM 129 keypunch > Documation RM600LCC card reader > > The minimum bids are reasonable for all but the Documation reader. > It's interesting and relatively rare stuff -- shouldn't be let to go > to scrap. > > Also, I got my Documation reader working tonight -- it was misreading > because of worn feed rollers. I learned a lot about the these > machines trying to diagnose and fix that. The USB interface is > finished and working now (if anyone wants the schematic and code, > write to me), and I was able to read in the system load deck for > APL\1130. So -- sometime in the next few weeks the IBM 1130 emulator > will have APL and a bunch of other old code I have here on cards. > > Brian > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > _| _| _| Brian Knittel > _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. > _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 > _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 > _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com > _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From jim at smithy.com Thu Jun 12 14:50:00 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Systems In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030612124215.01133520@mail.xmission.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030612124215.01133520@mail.xmission.com> Message-ID: <1055446742.19359.1.camel@server.smithy.com> Do you have model numbers for the OIS systems? I may be interested. Are any of the manuals/disks for the OIS? On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 14:59, David Tillson wrote: > I have a number of Wang computers, printers, circuit boards, manuals, > software, disks, training manuals etc. that are taking up needed > space. The computers include a portable with a built in printer; a desktop > system with a color monitor, and several OIS systems. The printers include > 2 daisy wheels, a dot matrix and 2 laser systems (HP's with a Wang > label). Available for the cost of shipping from Salt Lake, Utah. > > David Tillson > dtillson@xmission.com > -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Jun 12 15:13:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #642 - 31 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030611170000.84189.50368.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030612200859.48313.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry you both had problems with Stewart. I've known him for over 20 years now, and never had problems like this. I'll ask him about it. I'm pretty sure the items ship from State College, PA and he lives in Brooklyn, NY. So there's some quite large physical distance between he and where the shipping is done (about 5 hours or more by car). I know he can be a little funny about selling large quantities of things. I've tried to set him up with people to buy large amounts of software, or to license his software that he isn't selling anymore only to have a perfectly sound deal fall through. I guess he feels if he holds out, he'll make more money selling it piecemeal overtime than selling it discounted in a lump. I'd also guess he really WANTS a slow income stream, rather than a large lump sum for tax purposes, and to have that steady income coming in. I don't know. I live in Philadelphia, PA now and only talk to him once or twice a year. He hasn't come to the Trenton Computer Festival in two years now. Since getting married, he's been busy with other things. If I get any answers, I'll let you know. I CAN tell you he isn't a crook... If anything, he's been abused by thieves quite a bit over the years I've known him... But, he is definitely an honest guy. He's NEVER ripped me off in the 20 years I've known him. He's always been fair, honest and generous. Not knowing the details of your deal from his end, I can't comment on what happened. In these kind of things, there are always three sides... Your side, his side, and the unvarnished truth.. LOL! I hope you don't feel harmed in any way. You can tell I like him a lot. He introduced me to some Personal Improvement work over 10 years ago that literally "Saved my life". And so, I have a rather large soft spot for him. But, given that... He is still an honest guy. I'm sure he wouldn't purposely rip anyone off. He might dissappoint someone by screwing up, as humans are wont to do... But I can guarantee it wasn't a purposeful rip-off. But, I have no problem with any one reading about these two dealings with him deciding they don't want to buy anything from him. There are plenty of Timex items on eBay. You can go anywhere to get this stuff... I have a few odds and ends I might get rid off (like a Thermal Printer), but I'll keep my ZX-81... If only because I built it with my own butter-fingered hands. Regards, Al > From: acme@ao.net > Subject: Re: ZX81 Kits (was:cctalk digest, Vol 1 > #633) > > From: Hans Franke > Subject: Re: ZX81 Kits (was:cctalk digest, Vol 1 > #633) > Date: 06/10/2003 1:29 PM > > > Jup, and understandable. I still have a hard time > > to get a complete picture here. I tried several > times > > to order a bunch of ZX81s from him, back when he > > asked 29.95, and when the price rose to 49.95. I > > never got any reply. I tried eMail and since this > > didn't work Fax and finaly a real letter. > > > > And I wanted to buy more than just one little Kit. > > > > Now, I have a hard time to see any business minded > > structure (and the whish to earn money) in > ignoring > > potential customers at all. > > > Well, I've done a certain amount of business with > Mr. Newfeld, and every > transaction has been a little flaky around the > edges: order (and prepay for) > two kits, only receive one, wrong product received, > etc. The last time *he* > called *me* and told me about some obscure expansion > devices he had "found" > in his warehouse, and did I want them? We agreed on > a price, he charged my > Visa, and two months later I still had not received > the merchandise. He then > stopped answering my phone calls and emails, and, > sadly, I had to threaten > one of his subordinates over the phone in order to > get Mr. Newfeld's > attention. Ultimately, he did not ship the promised > goods, but sent something > else instead. > > Also, I and others have made *very* generous offers > to him concerning large > quantities of other merchandise he claims to have > "mountains" of, and his > response has been to ignore us. No counter-offer, > nothing but dead silence. > > This is the behavior of someone who's "trying to > make a living?" Seems > counter-productive to me . . . almost like some sort > of weird power trip . . . > > Glen Goodwin > Orlando, FL USA > 0/0 From als at thangorodrim.de Thu Jun 12 15:20:00 2003 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <00a501c3306c$0802ac60$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <00a501c3306c$0802ac60$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030612200114.GA9093@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ wrote: > Yes, some russian caught something on fire in a test situation and it went > up like the hindenburg before he could put it out. I worked at a company for > over a year that did work with liquid oxygen, and after it went into a heat > exchanger oxygen gas. Its interesting what will burn in the presence of pure > o2 gas. Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and allowed to seep into it > can be very explosive (a leak of liquid o2 into a parking lot made of > asphault cane make one huge explosion under certain circumstances). Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). Nice property of it: if you don't need it to go *BOOM* anymore, just wait until the liquid oxygen has evaporated ... although normal industrial explosives sure are safer to handle. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jun 12 15:21:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: I'm not sure if this is older than 10 years yet, but people on this list have a library of manuals, so I'm asking anyway. Does anyone have a manual to an HP JetDirect EX print server device? Specifically model number J2382. I'm trying to find out how to default it to factory settings, and how to get in and change configurations. Holding the TEST button on power up doesn't seem to do default it (or if it is, it isn't clearing the error condition, but that might also be because it isn't taking the BootP info for its IP address). I have two doing the same thing, and I tend to doubt both are broken, so I'm guessing that the manual HP has on their site for the EX Plus doesn't have the right directions for it (not too surprised). So, anyone have that manual? -chris From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jun 12 15:27:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: IPC Peripherals CD changer.... References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> <3EE4B722.8E6F1BB9@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3EE8E0FB.E73D7B6F@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Tothwolf wrote: > > > > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > > Well, the whole thing itself is about 4"Hx7"Wx13"D... Across the top of > > > the face is the headphone jack, volume knob, 7 buttons in a row (for > > > each disc) then the status light. Below that is the tray to load the > > > discs. And the tray is wider than your standard CD tray... With this > > > faceplate on it, my only choice is to keep it as an external drive. > > > > That drive sounds very similar in design to the NEC drives I have. I have > > to wonder if it isn't a rebadged or OEM drive? Does it use a regular > > external SCSI drive chassis, or is it a custom case? The NEC and Pioneer > > changers I have are all custom cases. > > > > -Toth > > Well from the back it looks like a regular chassis, but the front plate > is definitely a custom job. I'll see if I can dig up a camera tomorrow > for some pictures... And I'll see if I have time today to crack it > open... > > -- Well, got some pics, finally. After popping it open, it definitely looks like an OEM drive, in a custom chassis. Front left corner, after I took the cover off... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-002F.JPG .. can't really read the inch numbers on the ruler, but the 2 3-1/2 floppies help give you an idea... A shot from the back left, topless... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-002F.JPG ... with another floppy leaning on it, for height comparison Here is an overhead shot, with the top off... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-003F.JPG -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 12 15:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <20030612200114.GA9093@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <20030612202840.92397.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Alexander Schreiber wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ wrote: > > I worked at a company for over a year that did work with > > liquid oxygen... Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and > > allowed to seep into it can be very explosive... > > Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen > were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). There's some comments to that effect on George Gobel's web page about accelerating charcoal grill lighting with LOX... He cautions the experimentacious reader to have an ignition source (he uses a cigar, IIRC) present amongst the briquettes to avoid turning them into latent detonation devices. His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-( -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 12 15:35:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030612094015.01a31498@mail.ubanproductions.com > Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030612162404.0f9fbd72@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:42 AM 6/12/03 -0500, Tom wrote: >Hello, > >I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, >which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described >here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm > >I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might >still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. I'd like a copy too. I JUST got home with a TT 43 from a scrounging trip to S Florida. I have access to a couple of older mechanical TTs but I don't have the room for them but I'm thinking of putting the 43 to work on one of my old machines. BTW I also brought home two Intel MDS-800s, a MDS 225, three Intel DD 8" floppy drives and another Intel box that I didn't even look to see what it was. Yeah, like I needed more Intel MDSs!! Joe > >Thanks! > >--tom From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 12 15:35:13 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Dec/Compaq 2.88 floppy drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030612112943.032bece0@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030612162959.493f6b70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:33 AM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote: >Can the 2.88 floppys used on alphaservers work on a PC? > >such as >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735659907&category=162& rd=1 > I don't know about THAT particular 2.88 drive but some PCs support 2.88 drives. Somewhere I have a couple of add-in FD controllers that have their own BIOS and they support the 2.88. And I've seen a 2.88 setting on a couple of motherboard BIOSs. I think that it would be hard to find disks for the 2.88 unless you want to buy them new. The disks are marked ED or EHD IIRC. I've been looking for them in the surplus/scrap places but only found ONE in 2 years. Joe From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jun 12 15:38:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: I believe I have one at home. I'll check tonight and let you know tomorrow. Bob -----Original Message----- From: chris [mailto:cb@mythtech.net] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:16 PM To: Classic Computer Subject: JetDirect EX print server I'm not sure if this is older than 10 years yet, but people on this list have a library of manuals, so I'm asking anyway. Does anyone have a manual to an HP JetDirect EX print server device? Specifically model number J2382. I'm trying to find out how to default it to factory settings, and how to get in and change configurations. Holding the TEST button on power up doesn't seem to do default it (or if it is, it isn't clearing the error condition, but that might also be because it isn't taking the BootP info for its IP address). I have two doing the same thing, and I tend to doubt both are broken, so I'm guessing that the manual HP has on their site for the EX Plus doesn't have the right directions for it (not too surprised). So, anyone have that manual? -chris From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jun 12 15:42:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: IPC Peripherals CD changer.... References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> <3EE4B722.8E6F1BB9@comcast.net> <3EE8E0FB.E73D7B6F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3EE8E431.2E6BF75@comcast.net> Ooops. The first picture name is 001, not 002... Here's the correct link... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-001F.JPG David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Well, got some pics, finally. After popping it open, it definitely > looks like an OEM drive, in a custom chassis. > > Front left corner, after I took the cover off... > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-002F.JPG > .. can't really read the inch numbers on the ruler, but the 2 3-1/2 > floppies help give you an idea... > > A shot from the back left, topless... > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-002F.JPG > ... with another floppy leaning on it, for height comparison > > Here is an overhead shot, with the top off... > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-003F.JPG > > -- -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 12 15:51:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610171944.01b6d8d0@mail.30below.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030612103308.01d08148@mail.30below.com> <013101c330fa$fdee0e60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004a01c33123$bc5354a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Does this thread win some kind of award for being the single > longest most off-topic thread in list history? Geeze! I've long since started practicing my Pete Townsend "Windmill" deletes. IE, position your hand, index finger extended, 3~4 feet above and behind the delete key and lower in a circular motion - Fast! John A. ... Let the hand bounce back up to the raised position for the next eMail - just in case. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jun 12 15:56:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Dec/Compaq 2.88 floppy drives References: <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> <002101c32fdb$f6564ca0$6401a8c0@bocephus> <3.0.6.16.20030612162959.493f6b70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EE8E77F.47E6205@comcast.net> Joe wrote: > > At 11:33 AM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote: > >Can the 2.88 floppys used on alphaservers work on a PC? > > > >such as > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2735659907&category=162& > rd=1 > > > > I don't know about THAT particular 2.88 drive but some PCs support 2.88 > drives. Somewhere I have a couple of add-in FD controllers that have their > own BIOS and they support the 2.88. And I've seen a 2.88 setting on a > couple of motherboard BIOSs. > > I think that it would be hard to find disks for the 2.88 unless you want > to buy them new. The disks are marked ED or EHD IIRC. I've been looking for > them in the surplus/scrap places but only found ONE in 2 years. > > Joe Not exactly related, but I did manage to get my hands on a ThinkPad 755 with a 2.88 floppy in it... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 12 15:56:13 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Dec/Compaq 2.88 floppy drives In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030612162959.493f6b70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > I think that it would be hard to find disks for the 2.88 unless you want > to buy them new. The disks are marked ED or EHD IIRC. I've been looking for > them in the surplus/scrap places but only found ONE in 2 years. They're not easy to find, but they do turn up occasionally. IBM used them, and Next used them (they called them "4M" (unformatted capacity)) IIRC, they are Barium Ferrite. They look like a 1.4M, but the media ID hole is in a slightly different place. When used with a PC, they are 2 sided * 80 tracks per side * 36 sectors per track * 512 Bytes per sector. That works out to 2.8125 "honest" megabytes ("MebiByte") (1048576) Unless you use IBM's ridiculous 1,024,000 bytes per megabyte. From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 12 16:13:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <20030612202840.92397.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Alexander Schreiber wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ wrote: > > > I worked at a company for over a year that did work with > > > liquid oxygen... Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and > > > allowed to seep into it can be very explosive... > > > > Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen > > were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). > > There's some comments to that effect on George Gobel's web page about > accelerating charcoal grill lighting with LOX... He cautions the > experimentacious reader to have an ignition source (he uses a cigar, > IIRC) present amongst the briquettes to avoid turning them into > latent detonation devices. > > His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's > a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-( It has been archived (with pictures, even) on the WayBack Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20021003203611/http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ I must say, the grill lighting is pretty damn impressive. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Jun 12 16:16:00 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 Voltage Message-ID: I may (or may not) get an Osborne 1 soon, but it's rated for 120v. The Executive autoswitched voltage levels; does the 1 do this too? (It was found in a dumpster, two of them :O) Norway is 235v. I thought it was odd that the machine would be 120v here. Much love, ______________________ |Tore Sinding Bekkedal| |toresbe@ifi.uio.no | |+47 91 85 95 08 \_________________________ ------------------------------------------------/ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 12 16:26:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030612094015.01a31498@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, > which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described > here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm Say, I've got one of these, but without the tasty looking reader/punch. > I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might > still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. I am pretty sure I have the manual...somewhere :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Jun 12 16:35:01 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Siemens 6-611: Wierd yet cool Message-ID: I recently found a computer to which I have never seen likes: The Siemens 6-611. Although I'm just getting started within serious collecting, this is an interesting machine. It features more than one 80851 (I counted 4), A Z84, and a bunch of AY-something chips. It has a v. large mainboard. It has a console I think is serial, with a wierd textile covering the CRT. The console is also labelled 6-611. The keyboard features indicators like ACK and a sexiful key. The monitor powers up, beeps, and the OK light on the KB lights up. Mass storage is an 8" drive, and a large HDD, 8" style. It has two separate power connectors, one for the hard drive logic, one for the motor and mechanics. Upon powerup, smoke erupted from the powersupply, which I think were filter caps. (ARGH, the SMELL!) The system worked fine after that. The monitor has a power switch and AC out for the system, which doesn't. The monitor also regulates the power to 230v (In comparison to 235v in Norway.) I lacked the cable from the console to the machine at that time, a standard serial cable, DB-9. Much Peace, ______________________ |Tore Sinding Bekkedal| |toresbe@ifi.uio.no | |+47 91 85 95 08 \_________________________ ------------------------------------------------/ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 12 16:36:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: <20030612202840.92397.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's > a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-( Well, you never know when some terrorist is going to try to build a bomb with lighter fluid and lox. False sense of security notwithstanding, now that the page is removed, no one will be able to do damage with that particular information. No siree. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jun 12 16:39:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 Voltage Message-ID: The O1 can be switched between voltages. The procedure depends on how old it is. Check out the information on pp 31-32 of the "Osborne 1 Technical Manual" at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/osborne/osborne1TechnicalManual.pdf. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Tore Sinding Bekkedal [mailto:toresbe@ifi.uio.no] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:12 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Osborne 1 Voltage I may (or may not) get an Osborne 1 soon, but it's rated for 120v. The Executive autoswitched voltage levels; does the 1 do this too? (It was found in a dumpster, two of them :O) Norway is 235v. I thought it was odd that the machine would be 120v here. Much love, ______________________ |Tore Sinding Bekkedal| |toresbe@ifi.uio.no | |+47 91 85 95 08 \_________________________ ------------------------------------------------/ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 12 16:40:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > It has been archived (with pictures, even) on the WayBack Machine at > http://web.archive.org/web/20021003203611/http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ Nobody tell the Department of Homeland Security! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jun 12 16:41:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Jun 12, 2003 04:16:21 PM Message-ID: <20030612213434.F3E587F83@dittman.net> > I'm trying to find out how to default it to factory settings, and how to > get in and change configurations. Holding the TEST button on power up > doesn't seem to do default it (or if it is, it isn't clearing the error > condition, but that might also be because it isn't taking the BootP info > for its IP address). I don't have the manual, but I thought you had to hold the TEST button down for ten seconds while powering up the device. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 12 16:58:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 Voltage Message-ID: <200306122153.OAA27704@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Tore I would suspect that there should be a label stating the input voltage range. If not, use a transformer. You might also look inside. Many switcher supplies had jumpers to select input voltage. Dwight >From: "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" > >I may (or may not) get an Osborne 1 soon, but it's rated for 120v. The >Executive autoswitched voltage levels; does the 1 do this too? (It was >found in a dumpster, two of them :O) Norway is 235v. I thought it was odd >that the machine would be 120v here. > >Much love, >______________________ >|Tore Sinding Bekkedal| >|toresbe@ifi.uio.no | >|+47 91 85 95 08 \_________________________ >------------------------------------------------/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 12 18:46:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer, some basic questions: In-Reply-To: from "Harvey White" at Jun 10, 3 07:19:28 pm Message-ID: > I've just gotten one, without the instruction manual, of course. > > Seems that it needs to save to HP-IB instruments and so forth, also > can us HP-IL.... > > I'll have to see if I can find data on HP-IL, might be worth rolling > an interface for it, or just stick to the IEEE-488.... HPIL is logically a bit-serial version of HPIB (IEEE-488), but physically it's very different -- it's a loop, not a bus and all devices on the loop are transformer-coupled... There is an HP custom chip -- the 1LB3 -- that is an HPIL interface circuit. It handles the talker/listener/controller functions. This chip is not total unobtainium, but it is quite hard to find -- people who have a few (like myself) don't want to give them up :-). The special pulse transformers (HP made a little DIL module containing the 3 transformers needed for a loop connection) are much harder to find, though. There are 3 manuals you'll find useful. One is the HPIL specification, which includes enough detail to design an interface from scratch not using the HP parts. The second is the 1LB3 data sheet. The third is the user manual for the 82166C (must be C) kit. This was a kit to design HPIL interaces, and included 4 1LB3 chips, 4 transformer units, 2 microcontrollers (programmed with code to implement a parallel I/O device), the necessary passive components, and documentation. The user manual gives an example circuit for the 1LB3, showing how to connect it to the transformer assembly, etc. These manuals are on the MoHPC CD-ROM set (look at http://www.hpmuseum.org/ and follow the links). This is a set of 7 CD-ROMs (or a DVD-ROM I think) which contain pdf files of scanned images of HP calculator (and related products) manuals. If you have a system capable of reading pdf files, and you're interested in HP calculators, you need these disks. I think they cost me $42 for the 7 CDs, including postage to England, which I regard as a total bargain. The first manual I looked at made it work the cost! Of course I still prefer printed manuals (and actually, I have the HPIL docs as original HP manuals), but these CDs are better than nothing. A lot better than nothing. Although in your case it might be simpler just to stick to the HPIB port :-). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 12 18:47:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Siemens 6-611: Wierd yet cool In-Reply-To: from "Tore Sinding Bekkedal" at Jun 12, 3 11:30:03 pm Message-ID: > I recently found a computer to which I have never seen likes: The Siemens > 6-611. Although I'm just getting started within serious collecting, this > is an interesting machine. > > It features more than one 80851 (I counted 4), A Z84, and a bunch of IS the first an 8085, an 8051, or something else? And what's a Z84? The Z8400 is another number for the Z80 CPU, BTW. > filter caps. (ARGH, the SMELL!) The system worked fine after that. The > monitor has a power switch and AC out for the system, which doesn't. The > monitor also regulates the power to 230v (In comparison to 235v in > Norway.) I wouldn;t worry about that voltage difference. I've never found a machine that runs at 230V (or 220V for that matter) that won't take 240V. -tony From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 12 19:06:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:20 2005 Subject: Siemens 6-611: Wierd yet cool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote: > I recently found a computer to which I have never seen likes: The > Siemens 6-611. Although I'm just getting started within serious > collecting, this is an interesting machine. > > It features more than one 80851 (I counted 4), A Z84, and a bunch of > AY-something chips. It has a v. large mainboard. > > It has a console I think is serial, with a wierd textile covering the > CRT. The console is also labelled 6-611. The keyboard features > indicators like ACK and a sexiful key. The monitor powers up, beeps, and > the OK light on the KB lights up. > > Mass storage is an 8" drive, and a large HDD, 8" style. It has two > separate power connectors, one for the hard drive logic, one for the > motor and mechanics. > > Upon powerup, smoke erupted from the powersupply, which I think were > filter caps. (ARGH, the SMELL!) The system worked fine after that. The > monitor has a power switch and AC out for the system, which doesn't. The > monitor also regulates the power to 230v (In comparison to 235v in > Norway.) > > I lacked the cable from the console to the machine at that time, a > standard serial cable, DB-9. This may be one of their early building automation system computers. I've never had the chance to see one of the Siemens systems, but the JC80 I'm still gathering parts for could also be configured to use similar storage means. The DB-9 port you describe may not be for a console. Many of the automation systems were designed to communicate with other devices and/or computers, one of which might have provided the means to program the system. Usually such automation system computers would be programmed and run for very long periods without anyone needing to change their program. Pictures? -Toth From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jun 12 19:09:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: IBM Unit Record equipment on eBay In-Reply-To: <3EE7CEA4.9608.AC9E00AF@localhost> Message-ID: > There is some interesting (and heavy) IBM unit record equipment up > for auction on ebay. View > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=27353 > 14909 > and click on "View Seller's Other Auctions" for the whole list: > > IBM 077 collator > IBM 083 sorters (two) > IBM 088 collator plugboards and manual only > IBM 548 alphabetic interpreter > IBM 129 keypunch Cool stuff. Even though I am finally getting rid of that CM5 chassis, making a sizeable hole in the shop, I am so far out of room for any more goodies that I might have to take a pass. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jun 12 19:13:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: Univac III sold? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The one who bought it seems like a good guy (you can read his "Me" > profile). Does anyone know him? Does he lurk? Like most people - I wish I had the space, time, and money to get the beast out of the trailer, but I have two lifetime projects already, and only one lifetime. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jun 12 19:15:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: IBM Unit Record equipment on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I don't know why they decided to start the 548 at $300. Otherwise, it's > some pretty nice stuff, but the shipping alone will be $1,000 on > everything. I hope it goes somewhere besides the scrapyard. Scrap value, probably. There is quite a lot of nice metal in the relay brains of some of those punch card machines. Probably not $300 worth, but much more than a brainless 077 or 083. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jun 12 20:42:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: >I don't have the manual, but I thought you had to hold the >TEST button down for ten seconds while powering up the >device. I've tried a number of different lengths of time in holding the test button. Its possible that it is in fact resetting, but I see no visual indication of it, so I can't tell. If it is resetting, it still isn't taking a BootP assigned IP, and is erroring out when I connect it to the network. If it was one unit, I would assume its broken... but two units doing the exact same thing, I think I am doing something wrong, and I hope a manual may tell me what that is. -chris From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 12 21:02:00 2003 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: Space screwups Re: Magnetic Memory making a comeback? In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:28:40 -0700 (PDT) . <20030612202840.92397.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In message <20030612202840.92397.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com>, Ethan Dicks wr ites: >--- Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:51:43PM -0400, TeoZ wrote: >> > I worked at a company for over a year that did work with >> > liquid oxygen... Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and >> > allowed to seep into it can be very explosive... >> >> Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen >> were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). > >There's some comments to that effect on George Gobel's web page about >accelerating charcoal grill lighting with LOX... He cautions the >experimentacious reader to have an ignition source (he uses a cigar, >IIRC) present amongst the briquettes to avoid turning them into >latent detonation devices. > >His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's >a comment now from earlier this year about its removal. :-( Well, I can't help myself throwing in a couple of (albeit continued off-topic) anecdotes. The first comes from my dad when he worked for General Dynamics in Fort Worth, TX. It seems that someone was there demonstrating some of the properties of LOX. Apparently, he poured some on the alphalt and then threw a brick at it from a distance. Dad says that it shook dust off the rafters in the factory. The other anecdote relates to Gobel's former page. He talked about a graduate student who talked him into doing it one more time "for the cameras." It turns out he was my office-mate when I was a grad student at Purdue. My favorite memory comes from the semester he was teaching the COBOL course. There were inevitably long lines of students with questions during his office hours during which I couldn't get much done. So instead of twiddling my thumbs I started helping his students out too. Of course it was all worthwhile when a cute redhead came back for help a few more times. Brian L. Stuart From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jun 12 21:14:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: [META] munging addresses redux Message-ID: <200306130221.TAA08044@floodgap.com> I was browsing the mailing list archives and noted that the addresses are not munged or hidden. Was any consensus reached about this? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- My Pink Floyd code: v1.2a s BO 1/0/pw tinG 0? 0 Relics 2 8 <6mar98> -------- From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Jun 12 21:21:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: goin to CA soon, to be a CC tychoon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030613021655.WRV15343.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Chris wrote: > >P.S. The few accidents I have been in (none of which involved another > >vehicle if I was at fault - I always steer for the ditch in times of > >trouble) I *never* wore the belt, and I *always* walked away from them. > > And you are LUCKY! Snip! Hmm, In local newspapers I read daily, noted daily police, accident etc reports. Most of time nearly every one died or severely hurt or maimed didn't wear seatbelts. They always note what isn't in compliant with rules/laws. Pays to be on defensive driving. Practise on closed tracks or parking lots (like slick surfaces in winter to get the "feel" and experience of what car reacts, I did and intend to do more of this 'fun'. These idiots didn't have good experience & inattentive, that for sure from what I see and by experience and being taught about it while I was in driving sessions. Even I wasn't driving, I watched others too. Inattentive or overconfident drivers or careless bystanders will get somebody eventually. Oh yeah, saw bunch of drivers running reds at " T" intersection near where I work, stem was low volume on busy 4 lane w/ waiting lane of connecting main road appox 4km long that ties two north and south (both runs E-W) main roads together & goes past one of main road to the highway 401. Our small shop is nearest south mainroad next to that said intersection. That road is lined with big boxes and small stores, one major indoor mall and other one open-air mall. Cheers & drive w/ cellphone turned off please. Note, time of year is awful with all that on-going multiple road constructions. Wizard From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 12 21:21:15 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: IPC Peripherals CD changer.... In-Reply-To: <3EE8E0FB.E73D7B6F@comcast.net> References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> <3EE4B722.8E6F1BB9@comcast.net> <3EE8E0FB.E73D7B6F@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > > > Well, the whole thing itself is about 4"Hx7"Wx13"D... Across the > > > > top of the face is the headphone jack, volume knob, 7 buttons in a > > > > row (for each disc) then the status light. Below that is the tray > > > > to load the discs. And the tray is wider than your standard CD > > > > tray... With this faceplate on it, my only choice is to keep it as > > > > an external drive. > > > > > > That drive sounds very similar in design to the NEC drives I have. I > > > have to wonder if it isn't a rebadged or OEM drive? Does it use a > > > regular external SCSI drive chassis, or is it a custom case? The NEC > > > and Pioneer changers I have are all custom cases. > > > > Well from the back it looks like a regular chassis, but the front > > plate is definitely a custom job. I'll see if I can dig up a camera > > tomorrow for some pictures... And I'll see if I have time today to > > crack it open... > > Well, got some pics, finally. After popping it open, it definitely looks > like an OEM drive, in a custom chassis. I think your drive is indeed an OEM'd NEC drive. It looks nearly identical to the NEC changers I have, but it has a few differences. My changers all use high density SCSI connectors, while yours uses the larger 50 pin connectors. The plastic mechanism somewhat visible under the ribbon cable looks identical to the mechanism that is used in my NEC MultiSpin 4Xc changers. I'll see if I can snap a few photos of one of them for comparison. The front panel pf my changers has the same basic layout, but the panel design is more intricate. It would make sense that an OEM drive might have a more plain front panel. Your drive may be identical to mine internally. If thats the case, you can obtain a service manual from NEC (I need to do that myself). -Toth From mross666 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 12 22:37:00 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: Marginally OT: databases Message-ID: First, a confession... I test databases for a living! Having said that, I'm remarkably ignorant when it comes to the process of actually manually shoving great wedges of data into them... I'm trying to design a database to catalogue the Corestore collection. It's my intention ultimately to construct a database-driven website to make much more of the collection publically-accessible - the present website is woefully out of date and generally inadequate. I can design the backend database no problem - I'll probably use DB2, create tables with the fields you would expect - catalogue number, manufacturer, serial number, date, free-text description, etc etc. Also binary fields to hold images, if it's an artifact worth photgraphing, and data, if it's a data artifact - e.g. if it's a disk pack or paper tape, an image file of the contents. What I'm looking for is some suggestion as to a 'ready to use' front-end data entry package that would be suitable. Critical to this is the ability to drag and drop, for instance, .jpg images into the appropriate data fields - there are going to be so many of these that the idea of typing path or file names into something doesn't bear thinking about. I've no idea where to start with this - my career testing databases has lef tme clueless on how to go about data entry! Suggest anyone willing to assist replies via email, unless they feel that discussion of this topic on the list would be helpful to others. TIA Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From martinm at allwest.net Thu Jun 12 22:59:01 2003 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server References: Message-ID: <3EE94AFA.3000406@allwest.net> chris wrote: >>I don't have the manual, but I thought you had to hold the >>TEST button down for ten seconds while powering up the >>device. > > > I've tried a number of different lengths of time in holding the test > button. Its possible that it is in fact resetting, but I see no visual > indication of it, so I can't tell. > > If it is resetting, it still isn't taking a BootP assigned IP, and is > erroring out when I connect it to the network. If it was one unit, I > would assume its broken... but two units doing the exact same thing, I > think I am doing something wrong, and I hope a manual may tell me what > that is. > The generic manual included with a J2591A states that to reset the print server, hold down the test button while connecting the power cord. To print a configuration page, connect a printer and press the test button. Telnet to the IP on the config page and setup the print server. Martin From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jun 12 23:02:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed References: <3.0.6.16.20030612162404.0f9fbd72@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EE94BAA.5C014B76@verizon.net> I have the "Installation and Routine Servicing" guide, and the "How to Operate" guide. I plan to make copies when I get back from CA. Eric Joe wrote: > > At 09:42 AM 6/12/03 -0500, Tom wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, > >which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described > >here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm > > > >I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might > >still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. > > I'd like a copy too. I JUST got home with a TT 43 from a scrounging trip > to S Florida. I have access to a couple of older mechanical TTs but I don't > have the room for them but I'm thinking of putting the 43 to work on one of > my old machines. > > BTW I also brought home two Intel MDS-800s, a MDS 225, three Intel DD 8" > floppy drives and another Intel box that I didn't even look to see what it > was. Yeah, like I needed more Intel MDSs!! > > Joe > > > > >Thanks! > > > >--tom From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Thu Jun 12 23:34:01 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1055478576.3457.5.camel@azure.subsolar.com> On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 20:37, chris wrote: > If it is resetting, it still isn't taking a BootP assigned IP, and is > erroring out when I connect it to the network. If it was one unit, I > would assume its broken... but two units doing the exact same thing, I > think I am doing something wrong, and I hope a manual may tell me what > that is. I recently received one of them from a friend and actually got it to work using MS NetBEUI, but could not get it to work well with IP. I eventually gave up on it since my Linux box does not talk NetBEUI and gave it back to my friend. You are using a bootp server or a DHCP server set to support bootp? Does the status page show that it's receiving an IP address? Paul From evan947 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 12 23:38:00 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: craig electronics In-Reply-To: <3EE7EFDF.E0CA994E@synchronis.com> Message-ID: <20030613043127.27488.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Sounds like you're a bit misguided... the "Craig" that makes stereo components is an entirely different company than the company (long defunct) that resold computer systems back in the day... --- Synchronis LLC wrote: > Hello, > I found your message on the internet while doing a > search for Craig > Electronics. My parents have a sound system (Model > H400) that needs > some parts and I have been trying to locate this > company. Do you have > any info on who or where I would call / contact to > try to find out if > there are some replacement parts available for this > model or if there > are companies to do the repair of this item? > Thanks for any help you can supply. > -- > Tambi R. Willis > Assistant to Creative Designer / Tex K. Otto > SYNCHRONIS LLC > 1514 17th Street # 202 > Santa Monica, CA 90404 > 310-453-4100 v > 310-453-4885 fx > tambi@synchronis.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jun 13 00:02:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: IPC Peripherals CD changer.... In-Reply-To: References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> <3EE4B722.8E6F1BB9@comcast.net> <3EE8E0FB.E73D7B6F@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > Well from the back it looks like a regular chassis, but the front > > > plate is definitely a custom job. I'll see if I can dig up a camera > > > tomorrow for some pictures... And I'll see if I have time today to > > > crack it open... > > > > Well, got some pics, finally. After popping it open, it definitely > > looks like an OEM drive, in a custom chassis. > > I think your drive is indeed an OEM'd NEC drive. It looks nearly > identical to the NEC changers I have, but it has a few differences. My > changers all use high density SCSI connectors, while yours uses the > larger 50 pin connectors. > > The plastic mechanism somewhat visible under the ribbon cable looks > identical to the mechanism that is used in my NEC MultiSpin 4Xc > changers. I'll see if I can snap a few photos of one of them for > comparison. The front panel pf my changers has the same basic layout, > but the panel design is more intricate. It would make sense that an OEM > drive might have a more plain front panel. Your drive may be identical > to mine internally. If thats the case, you can obtain a service manual > from NEC (I need to do that myself). The photos I took of one of my NEC MultiSpin 4Xc changers can be found here: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/ Front view: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-front.jpg Rear view: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-rear.jpg Top view with cover off: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-top.jpg Disassembly for cleaning the pickup is pretty straightforward, but it can be tricky the first few times. First, power the drive and eject a tray: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-tray-open.jpg The trim panel on the front edge of the tray can then be removed by carefully pulling it upward: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-tray-front-removed.jpg The tray can then be recalled, and power removed. If you power the drive down with the power switch before recalling the tray, it will pull the tray in anyway. These drives make use of soft power. Next, remove the front cover. It is held in place by a pair of #2 phillips screws, one on each side. It also has a pair of clips that snap onto the bottom of the drive chassis. http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-front-removed.jpg The interface board is held in place by 4 #1 phillips screws. It is possible to remove the board without cutting any of the ty-wraps that bundle and retain the harnesses, but it is tricky. There is a mess of connectors to unplug, but they are each a different size and/or color, which makes them much easier to reconnect later. http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-interface-board-removed.jpg Next, the plastic cover that covers the disc magazine and supports the clamper can be removed. It is also held in place by 4 #1 phillips screws. Be careful of the red/black wire harness that connects to the small pc board. The pc board has a small micro-switch mounted to it that allows the drive to detect if it has a disc clamped. Sometimes it is easier to remove the small board instead of unplugging the cable. It is held in place by a pair of #0 phillips screws. http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-mech-cover-removed.jpg And finally, the metal shield at the front of the drive can be removed. It is held in place by a pair of #2 phillips screws. Once it is removed, the white plastic gear (just below the pickup in the photo) can be turned carefully toward the front of the drive to move the pickup out from under the geared bar used to eject the tray. http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/gallery/NEC-MultiSpin-4Xc/changer-shield-removed.jpg Anyhow, I find I like cdrom and other media changers the way some people like PDP-11 systems ;) -Toth From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jun 13 00:28:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server In-Reply-To: <1055478576.3457.5.camel@azure.subsolar.com> Message-ID: On 12 Jun 2003, Paul Berger wrote: > On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 20:37, chris wrote: > > If it is resetting, it still isn't taking a BootP assigned IP, and is > > erroring out when I connect it to the network. If it was one unit, I > > would assume its broken... but two units doing the exact same thing, I > > think I am doing something wrong, and I hope a manual may tell me what > > that is. > > I recently received one of them from a friend and actually got it to > work using MS NetBEUI, but could not get it to work well with IP. I > eventually gave up on it since my Linux box does not talk NetBEUI and > gave it back to my friend. > > You are using a bootp server or a DHCP server set to support bootp? > > Does the status page show that it's receiving an IP address? > > Paul > I've got one and it works OK with IP. I think the trick was to _not_ use the built in LPR spooler which was too buggy to be of use and just use direct access (port 9100 AFAICR)... Peter Wallace From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jun 13 04:31:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, chris wrote: > Does anyone have a manual to an HP JetDirect EX print server device? > Specifically model number J2382. How many of those would you like to have? :) Seriously.. one of my customers used to have ~600 PC's, most of which had their own printer. Yes yes, I know, that is/was insane. So, beiong the great consultant I am, I advised him to move towards disconnecting printers from individual workstations, and connect printers to the LAN instead, using.. you guessed it.. JetDirect (EX) boxes. OK. Sometimes, though, I feel like I should have become a baker or something, cos... when I (later) returned to that customer, they were VERY proud of themselves while showing me the good work they did, as I suggested.... THEY REPLACED EVERY DIRECT CONNECTION WITH A JETDIRECT ! *THUNK* Yes. They ordered ~500 or so of these thingers, and did the change to each installed printer. So, basically, each PC had its own printer [still], just connected through a JetDirect box. Arggh! [pause to let yall laugh yerselves silly] Anyway. When revamping that place later, I took a bunch of em home, obviously. So, I have the manuals for both the standard JetDirect (white-ish box), the 1-port EX (brown box) and 3-port EX (larger brown box.) Lemme know which one you need - I dont have the HP numbers handy here... And: yes, keep the TEST button depressed for 12 seconds while powering it up, and it SHOULD reset. I said "should", because many of the earlier firmware versions were buggy as hell. --fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jun 13 04:36:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server In-Reply-To: <1055478576.3457.5.camel@azure.subsolar.com> Message-ID: On 12 Jun 2003, Paul Berger wrote: > I recently received one of them from a friend and actually got it to > work using MS NetBEUI, but could not get it to work well with IP. I > eventually gave up on it since my Linux box does not talk NetBEUI and > gave it back to my friend. It then has the old firmware, which does not support IP. Install the HP JetAdmin stuff, download the firmware update package, and blast that into the JetDirect (using NetBEUI or HP Raw protocols), and you'll have one that DOES talk IP. --fred From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Jun 13 08:20:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: Substitute for DEC SS/QD Floppies References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030611212752.02727ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3EE9CE69.99101726@compsys.to> >Geoff Reed wrote: > > >On 10 Jun 2003, Barry Skidmore wrote: > > > I am looking for blank disks to use in a DEC RX50 drive. I have seen > > > posted several places that DD disks can be used, but so far my attempts > > > to initialize Verbatim DS/DD disks under RT-11 have failed: > > > "?DUP-F-Size function failed" > >You can't format RX50's with any Dec PDP-11 hardware. You probably can > >with a VAXstation 2000, or using a PC and the proper software - there's > >instructions for doing it under Linux with a 1.2MB floppy drive and DSDD > >disks on the web. If you want to I can probably find them. > Get yourself a Dec-Rainbow to format them :) or the Pro380 IIRC will > format RX-50's :) Jerome Fine replies: There is also a utility written by John Wilson which runs on a PC. PUTR can be found at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ Note that you MUST use a HD 1.2 MByte PC drive to do a LLF (Low Level Format) on the floppies. IN ADDITION, you must use DDDS 5 1/4" PC media which normally hold 360 KBytes, NOT the HD 5 1/4" PC media which hold 1.2 MBytes. As far as I know, PUTR runs under DOS/W95/W98, not the latter versions. When using a real PDP-11. there are 3rd party controllers such as the Dialog DM01 which will allow you to perform an LLF on an RX50 floppy, but an RQDX1,2,3/RX50 pair on a real PDP-11 is unable to do the LLF. As it happens, the RQDX3/RX33 pair on a real PDP-11 is able to do an LLF. The RX33 media are identical to the HD 5 1/4" 1.2 MByte media on a PC. In addition, the RX33 drive is a PC drive although at the moment, I forget the name and model - which accounts for the built-in hardware ability to do the LLF - although I presume that the RQDX3 also has extra firmware to support the LLF as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 13 08:28:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jun 13 08:29:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: IPC Peripherals CD changer.... References: <3EDF75CF.B25CB18@comcast.net> <3EDFB089.222C078A@comcast.net> <3EE4B722.8E6F1BB9@comcast.net> <3EE8E0FB.E73D7B6F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3EE9D065.62050478@comcast.net> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > ...Well, got some pics, finally. After popping it open, it > > definitely looks like an OEM drive, in a custom chassis... > > I think your drive is indeed an OEM'd NEC drive. It looks nearly identical > to the NEC changers I have, but it has a few differences. My changers all > use high density SCSI connectors, while yours uses the larger 50 pin > connectors. > > ... Yep, comparing mine to your pictures, they're the same drive, different face and SCSI connectors. Now I just have to hook it to a machine to see if it can still read CDs. If it doesn't, no big deal, since I did get it for free. :) -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jun 13 08:47:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... Message-ID: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> I'm sure you guys will enjoy the humor in this... I went to the shipping counter at the UPS hub here, with a box that has an Atari 800, disk drive, and software. The guy at the counter asked what I was shipping... "Oh, just some software, and an old computer and disk drive." "Copmuter? It that the original packing?" "Huh? Uh, no. It's an _old_ Atari copmuter." (Confused glance from him at the mention of the word 'Atari') "Well, uh, lets take a look...What's this?" "Umm, A disk drive..." "Well, uh, we can't ship it like this. It has to be in the original box" "Really. Since this computer is about 20 years old, I highly doubt that the original boxes still even exists in this world. So now what am I supposed to do?" (Blank look from him)"Well, let me tape this box back up for you" As I take the box to the FedEx hub next door, I wonder where this guy has been in the 80's. He has to be at least 30 years old... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 09:13:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: >You are using a bootp server or a DHCP server set to support bootp? I have a DHCP server running, and its logs indicate that it is responding to the BootP request and issuing an IP. >Does the status page show that it's receiving an IP address? I can't print a status page if I connect to the network. So the only status page I can print shows no IP address assigned (naturally, since it isn't on the network yet). As soon as I connect the box to the network, it's activity light blinks for a few seconds, and then the Fault light comes on. If I also have the box connected to a printer, it dumps out a "Reboot" page to the printer, and gets stuck cycling like that (Goes to Ok, then fault, prints a page, repeat until I disconnect from the network). The first one of these, I got a while back from someone who knew nothing about it, so I assumed it was probably just broken. But the other day I bought one on ebay for $5 (missing the power supply, which was fine since I had a power supply already), and it too does the exact same thing. That kind of makes me think there is nothing wrong with the unit, but rather something wrong with either the settings, or I just need to upgrade the firmware. Alas, I can't upgrade the firmware without an IP address because for some reason the HP Downloader software on my Win2k machine won't find any of my JetDirect devices until I specify their IP address (it couldn't find the 3 internal ones I have on the network that work just fine). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 09:20:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: >Anyway. When revamping that place later, I took a bunch of >em home, obviously. So, I have the manuals for both the >standard JetDirect (white-ish box), the 1-port EX (brown >box) and 3-port EX (larger brown box.) > >Lemme know which one you need - I dont have the HP numbers >handy here... The one I have is marked JetDirect EX, is a white-ish box about the size of a betamax cassette, and has a single Parallel port on the back with RJ-45 and BNC ethernet connections. My guess is, it would be the same one as the 1-port EX brownish one mention. >And: yes, keep the TEST button depressed for 12 seconds while >powering it up, and it SHOULD reset. I said "should", because >many of the earlier firmware versions were buggy as hell. I tried for 2, 5, 10, 12, 15, 30, and all sorts of other lengths of time. Should the status lights change to tell me it is resetting? I can't tell from the test page if it has or has not reset (the test pages are the same no matter what I do, so maybe it is resetting each time and I'm just seeing the page that is printed with default info). In any case, it errors when I connect it to my network. Again, one unit I would think it was broken, but two I tend to think I'm doing something wrong. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 09:26:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: >>From the manual: Thanks! >Chris, what OS are you using with the JDEX? The manual mentions IP address >only with UNIX. Run hpnpcfg to create the BOOTP configuration files, >specifying the IP address. The configuration info is downloaded from BOOTP >each time the JDEX is powered on. Right now, no OS because I can't get it on the network without it erroring. I do have a DHCP server that claims it is giving it an IP, but I can't tell if the device is actually accepting it. I do have HP's firmware utility on Win2k, but it can't see the device (but it also can't see any of my working JetDirect internal servers unless I tell it what specific IP to look at... its auto discovery feature doesn't seem to work). I also have HP's LaserJet Utility on a Mac which also can't see the device. I'm going to look into the hpnpcfg app you mention above, and see if I can create a BootP file for it. Maybe my DHCP server isn't giving it what it wants as a BootP response and it is getting confused. (my DHCP server doesn't fully do BootP, rather it responds to a BootP request with an IP, but it can't handle config file downloads, so I might need to run something that can). -chris From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jun 13 09:39:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:21 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server References: Message-ID: <3EE9E0A3.ED6C4E2D@comcast.net> chris wrote: > > >>From the manual: > > > > Thanks! > > >Chris, what OS are you using with the JDEX? The manual mentions IP address > >only with UNIX. Run hpnpcfg to create the BOOTP configuration files, > >specifying the IP address. The configuration info is downloaded from BOOTP > >each time the JDEX is powered on. > > Right now, no OS because I can't get it on the network without it > erroring. I do have a DHCP server that claims it is giving it an IP, but > I can't tell if the device is actually accepting it. > > I do have HP's firmware utility on Win2k, but it can't see the device > (but it also can't see any of my working JetDirect internal servers > unless I tell it what specific IP to look at... Chris, do you have a crossover ethernet cable handy? Try using that to connect the JetDirect box directly to the NIC on the Win2K box, and see if that helps. That way you eliminate any interference for any other device on the network. Of course if your Win2K box gets a IP address from the DHCP server, you'll need to switch it to a static address... But since they'll be isolated, it won't matter what address you give it. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 13 09:57:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: The flashing _Activity_ LED (middle one of the 3), with the Status LED On (Left one of 3, also green) should indicate that the unit is receiving network activity. If it is the _Status_ LED that is flashing, then the unit is either not configured, not able to reach the network, or running a self-test. In its ever-helpful way, the manual says that if the yellow Fault light is on, disconnect and reconnect the DC power to the unit. If the Fault LED again lights, "then replace the unit." :) -----Original Message----- From: chris [mailto:cb@mythtech.net] Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:08 AM To: Classic Computer Subject: Re: JetDirect EX print server As soon as I connect the box to the network, it's activity light blinks for a few seconds, and then the Fault light comes on. If I also have the box connected to a printer, it dumps out a "Reboot" page to the printer, and gets stuck cycling like that (Goes to Ok, then fault, prints a page, repeat until I disconnect from the network). From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 09:59:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: > Chris, do you have a crossover ethernet cable handy? Try using that to >connect the JetDirect box directly to the NIC on the Win2K box, and see >if that helps. That way you eliminate any interference for any other >device on the network. > Of course if your Win2K box gets a IP address from the DHCP server, >you'll need to switch it to a static address... But since they'll be >isolated, it won't matter what address you give it. One step ahead of you. I just pulled my Win2k machine from the network and plugged it and the JetDirect directly into their own hub (was easier to use a spare hub then to crawl under the desk and use a crossover cable). Now the error problem has gone away (not too surprised), but the HP Downloader on the Win2k machine STILL can't see the jetdirect. Next step, add my Mac to the mix and see if I can see it over AppleTalk. -chris From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jun 13 10:30:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server References: Message-ID: <3EE9EC9C.11685EF2@comcast.net> chris wrote: > > > Chris, do you have a crossover ethernet cable handy? Try using that to > >connect the JetDirect box directly to the NIC on the Win2K box, and see > >if that helps. That way you eliminate any interference for any other > >device on the network. > > Of course if your Win2K box gets a IP address from the DHCP server, > >you'll need to switch it to a static address... But since they'll be > >isolated, it won't matter what address you give it. > > One step ahead of you. I just pulled my Win2k machine from the network > and plugged it and the JetDirect directly into their own hub (was easier > to use a spare hub then to crawl under the desk and use a crossover > cable). > > Now the error problem has gone away (not too surprised), but the HP > Downloader on the Win2k machine STILL can't see the jetdirect. Next step, > add my Mac to the mix and see if I can see it over AppleTalk. > Well, can you at least print the test configuration page now? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From tambi at synchronis.com Fri Jun 13 10:38:00 2003 From: tambi at synchronis.com (Synchronis LLC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: craig electronics Message-ID: <3EE7EFDF.E0CA994E@synchronis.com> Hello, I found your message on the internet while doing a search for Craig Electronics. My parents have a sound system (Model H400) that needs some parts and I have been trying to locate this company. Do you have any info on who or where I would call / contact to try to find out if there are some replacement parts available for this model or if there are companies to do the repair of this item? Thanks for any help you can supply. -- Tambi R. Willis Assistant to Creative Designer / Tex K. Otto SYNCHRONIS LLC 1514 17th Street # 202 Santa Monica, CA 90404 310-453-4100 v 310-453-4885 fx tambi@synchronis.com From nfss at wow.net Fri Jun 13 10:38:25 2003 From: nfss at wow.net (Ian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: KSR Message-ID: <002601c3308e$15d9f240$841185d8@iancarvalho> Hi Dave, Yes I am Interested in the 280KSR Could you give me some more info on same. Regards Ian carvalho nfss@wow.net From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jun 13 10:38:37 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Magnavox Odyssey In-Reply-To: <000201c31668$67b2d950$8cdd86d9@graemedntzltme> Message-ID: Yay - finally got my paws on a boxed Odyssey! It's a US model so I might have some fun interfacing it with the TV card in my PC but it looks complete apart from, wait for it, the rest of the 'game cable' that goes between the Odyssey and the switch box - in the past someone's obviously needed a length of coax and chopped everything apart from the last 8 inches off! Does anyone have a spare I can buy/swap? Failing that does anyone know the proper name of the plug used 'cos I can always make my own, though the plug looks pretty non-standard. Pics are up at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk in the Magnavox section :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jun 13 10:38:49 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Items wanted in the UK for purchase or lease In-Reply-To: <000201c31668$67b2d950$8cdd86d9@graemedntzltme> Message-ID: Hi folks, I've received this request for a couple of items wanted on this side of the pond. If anyone can help can they contact Tony Edwards directly on either the number in the message below or at tedwards@tech-group.co.uk. cheers! --------------------------------------------------------- message: Hi I am trying to aquire a copy of Vintage computer parts for our Chairman to put on display in our new building. The first item Circa 1970 - GRI-909 Mini Computer - This is a tough one The second item required is an example of Magnetic Core Memory. For either item we are willing to purchase or Lease. As a Technology Company ourselves we may have something of interest to you. Please advise if you can be of help to each other Regards - Tony Edwards 01793 833440 The Technologies Group www.tech-group.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------- -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From mmonetta at dssinc.org Fri Jun 13 10:39:01 2003 From: mmonetta at dssinc.org (mmonetta@dssinc.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Museum Equipment Message-ID: <293580-2200364121724028@M2W079.mail2web.com> Do you need more equipment for the museum? Thanks Mike http://mail2web.com/ . From lists4frank at orange.net Fri Jun 13 10:39:13 2003 From: lists4frank at orange.net (Frank Mathias Mattes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: memory for vaxstation 4000/90 Message-ID: <373797.1055439067580.JavaMail.weblogic@beaufort> I would like pugrading my vaxstation 4000/90 from 16 Mbyte to 32. To my understanding you have to fill the slots (8) with always 4 identical memory banks. I have already bought 2 * 4 Mbyte ram banks and need two more. In case someone has two for selling, please let me know Frank PS: I saw a vaxstation 4000/90for > 350 USD at ebay, can't believe such high price From stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net Fri Jun 13 10:39:28 2003 From: stuart at stuartsjohnsonfamily.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: SMS 1000 Chassis documentation wanted, Bounty offered Message-ID: <019801c33130$0ea017f0$0200a8c0@cosmo> If anyone has a documentation set for the SMS 1000 PDP-11 chassis, please contact me offline if you are willing to loan or sell me a copy of it for a "reasonable" price. I am not looking for an item to be put under glass in a museum - I need working documentation. I bought one of these chassis's a while back (less docs) and can't use it without some assistance. I don't even know what "style" of QBUS it has in it! The chassis was "supposed" to come with the manuals, but... it didn't. It is too heavy to ship it back to the seller; the total shipping cost both ways cost about the same at the item did. I'll pay $20 US for information to the FIRST person (by email received time & date) to point me to a source for this documentation, that leads to my having a copy in my hands. If that person also is an owner of the documentation willing to provide me with a copy, I will pay them the $20 plus a reasonable copying and shipping fee. There are exclusions, to my bounty offer but will not affect anyone but the original seller of the SMS 1000. Stuart Johnson From fullera at kingmanaz.net Fri Jun 13 10:39:41 2003 From: fullera at kingmanaz.net (Art Fuller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: IBM DOS 3.0, MS-DOS 5.x etc Message-ID: I need PC Dos 3.2 for a restoration project on an original IBM PC. Art Fuller From Esther.King at indsys.ge.com Fri Jun 13 10:39:53 2003 From: Esther.King at indsys.ge.com (King, Esther M (IndSys, SalemVA)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: DEC Qbus DC005 Message-ID: <4F0420AE0FEFD411978E00508B68A4AE09A315A4@vasale05misge.salem.ge.com> Tony, Do you have any idea who still supplies this item? Esther King Technical Support Engineer Renewal Parts & Services GE Industrial Systems 1501 Roanoke Blvd. Salem, VA 24153 Ph: 540-387-8616 DC-278-8616 Fx: 540-387-7016 DC-278-7016 e-mail: esther.king@indsys.ge.com http://www.GEindustrial.com From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 10:43:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: >The flashing _Activity_ LED (middle one of the 3), with the Status LED On >(Left one of 3, also green) should indicate that the unit is receiving > >network activity. >If it is the _Status_ LED that is flashing, then the unit is either not >configured, not able to reach the network, or running a self-test. > >In its ever-helpful way, the manual says that if the yellow Fault light is >on, disconnect and reconnect the DC power to the unit. If the Fault LED >again lights, "then replace the unit." :) In order of what happens. I connect the printer to the JDEX, connect power. I get Status Light blinks slowly. I connect network, Status light goes solid, network blinks a few times, Status light goes out, Fault light blinks, error page prints on printer. Status light returns to solid, Act light blinks, Status light goes out, Fault On, error page... repeat until I disconnect from network. As soon as I disconnect from the network, Status light starts blinking, error pages stop. If I disconnect the printer but leave connected to network, Fault light stays on solid all other lights off. When I run this on a "private" network, everything works just fine. I can even print to the printer normally from my Mac (haven't tried the PC). However, the HP firmware downloader still can't locate the JDEX. So it looks like it is getting an error due to something on my network. My guess would be it doesn't like the BootP info my DHCP server is sending. So I am going to try getting a different BootP server for my Win2k box, one that also handles downloading of config files, and then run that on a "private" network. I'm hoping once I give it an IP address, I can get to it via the HP firmware downloader and upgrade the firmware and the error problem will go away. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 10:45:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: > Well, can you at least print the test configuration page now? I could always print a test page as long as I wasn't on the network. Now I can print a test page while on the private network, but it doesn't have an IP because there is no BootP server to send data to it. BUT, I can connect via my Mac on the private network and print a page, so it looks like the device is physically working just fine, and it just doesn't like something on my normal network (my guess being the BootP response from my DHCP server). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 10:51:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Intel 387SX-16 chip FREE! Message-ID: I have an Intel N80387SX-16 PLCC chip here. I know some people have been looking for these, so the first person to send me an address gets it. Totally free, 100%, not even shipping on this one. :-) -chris From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 13 10:53:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Magnavox Odyssey In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jun 12, 03 05:04:16 pm Message-ID: <200306131545.LAA00211@wordstock.com> And thusly Witchy spake: > > Pics are up at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk in the Magnavox section :) > Hello, I just tried to view the pictures... I am using Lynx at work so I tried accessing the "text" version of your site off the pages that says my browser does not support frames and received a 404 error. So I went through the "main" link and was able to get to the Magnavox section. Do you use progressive scan encoding on your jpeg's? My OS is QNX 4.25 and the picture viewer does not like your jpeg's. It give an error "Unsupported SOF marker type 0xc2". (not that this may mean much) Cheers, Bryan From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jun 13 11:23:02 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server References: Message-ID: <3EE9F5E5.3B7488C6@comcast.net> chris wrote: > > > Well, can you at least print the test configuration page now? > > I could always print a test page as long as I wasn't on the network. Now > I can print a test page while on the private network, but it doesn't have > an IP because there is no BootP server to send data to it. > > BUT, I can connect via my Mac on the private network and print a page, so > it looks like the device is physically working just fine, and it just > doesn't like something on my normal network (my guess being the BootP > response from my DHCP server). > > -chris > IIRC, once you reset one of these to factory settings, there is a default IP address you can telnet to to configure it. Don't remember what it is, tho... BTW, can you see it from the JetDirect software on the Mac? Or is it not seen by JetDirect from both the PC and the Mac? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jun 13 11:24:23 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: [META] munging addresses redux References: <200306130221.TAA08044@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <006d01c331c5$f7d8ba40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'll check into that shortly Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:21 PM Subject: [META] munging addresses redux > I was browsing the mailing list archives and noted that the addresses are > not munged or hidden. Was any consensus reached about this? > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- My Pink Floyd code: v1.2a s BO 1/0/pw tinG 0? 0 Relics 2 8 <6mar98> -------- From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Jun 13 11:37:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: [META] munging addresses redux In-Reply-To: <006d01c331c5$f7d8ba40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from Jay West at "Jun 13, 3 11:08:03 am" Message-ID: <200306131644.JAA14398@floodgap.com> > > I was browsing the mailing list archives and noted that the addresses are > > not munged or hidden. Was any consensus reached about this? > I'll check into that shortly Much obliged :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- If a seagull flies over the sea, what flies over the bay? ------------------ From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 11:40:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: > IIRC, once you reset one of these to factory settings, there is a >default IP address you can telnet to to configure it. Don't remember >what it is, tho... > BTW, can you see it from the JetDirect software on the Mac? Or is it >not seen by JetDirect from both the PC and the Mac? I had thought it should have a default IP as well, but it doesn't seem to, rather it has a non IP (0.0.0.0) and waits for BootP info. Kind of a pain. I can see the printer attached to it from the LaserJet software on the Mac when looking for Postscript printers, but when I look to see JetDirect EX devices in that software, it does not show up. I'm not aware of any other software for the Mac than the app I have (although there may be a newer version then the one I have). -chris From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 11:46:01 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed Message-ID: >>I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, >>which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described >>here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm > >Say, I've got one of these, but without the tasty looking reader/punch. > >>I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might >>still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. > >I am pretty sure I have the manual...somewhere :( > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival Think this is part of what you're looking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535770466 As soon as I get 'em, I'll scan 'em, in my Copious Free Time. (Proud owner of a 43 with the tasty reader/punch :-) Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jun 13 11:50:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Museum Equipment Message-ID: <50.1e1ee003.2c1b5992@aol.com> In a message dated 6/13/2003 11:36:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mmonetta@dssinc.org writes: << Do you need more equipment for the museum? >> sure, always looking for more stuff From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jun 13 12:00:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server References: Message-ID: <3EEA01EC.DF6F73E8@comcast.net> chris wrote: > > > IIRC, once you reset one of these to factory settings, there is a > >default IP address you can telnet to to configure it. Don't remember > >what it is, tho... > > BTW, can you see it from the JetDirect software on the Mac? Or is it > >not seen by JetDirect from both the PC and the Mac? > > I had thought it should have a default IP as well, but it doesn't seem > to, rather it has a non IP (0.0.0.0) and waits for BootP info. Kind of a > pain. Hmmm, must be different firmware than the one I dealt with. I take it you've search high & low in the document stuff on HP's website, right? > I can see the printer attached to it from the LaserJet software on the > Mac when looking for Postscript printers, but when I look to see > JetDirect EX devices in that software, it does not show up. I'm not aware > of any other software for the Mac than the app I have (although there may > be a newer version then the one I have). You mean you can see it in the Chooser, right? But not in JetAdmin on the Mac? If you can see it in JetAdmin you should be able to configure it right there. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jun 13 12:04:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030613115923.04882eb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 04:41 PM 6/13/2003 +0000, you wrote: >>>I've recently aquired a model 43 Teletype with a paper tape reader/punch, >>>which makes the unit an ASR43. It looks very much like the one described >>>here: http://www.vauxelectronics.com/gil/tty/M43.htm >> >>Say, I've got one of these, but without the tasty looking reader/punch. >> >>>I'm interested in finding a manual and/or any documentation that might >>>still exist for it. Scans and/or copies would be fine. >> >>I am pretty sure I have the manual...somewhere :( >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >>Festival > >Think this is part of what you're looking for: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535770466 > >As soon as I get 'em, I'll scan 'em, in my Copious Free Time. > >(Proud owner of a 43 with the tasty reader/punch :-) Why yes it is! Please let me know when you have them scanned... --tnx --tom >Mike >http://www.corestore.org > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 12:11:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: > You mean you can see it in the Chooser, right? But not in JetAdmin on >the Mac? If you can see it in JetAdmin you should be able to configure >it right there. I can see it in the Chooser, but also, I have an HP LaserJet utility for the Mac, and it gives you 4 types of printer/devices you can look for. Postscript printers, JetDirect EX devices, DeskJet printers, and AppleShare hosted printers. The printer connected to it shows up when I look for Postscript printers, and I can configure the printer. But the JDEX doesn't show up when I look in the JetDirect EX device list, so I can't cofigure it directly. But since I can send a print job and configure the printer connected TO it, then it looks like the JDEX is at least doing its job. All this may wind up being abondonded and I may toss these things... if I understand the info I just found out, I can't upgrade the firmware on them anyway because they need a flash simm card to do that, and they don't have it and HP no longer sells them. If this is a problem with interaction with my DHCP server (which is what it is looking like) then if I can't upgrade the firmware and fix the bug, then these become pretty useless to me. And when you figure for $60 I can buy a brand new NetGear print server, it doesn't become worth much more effort (and certainly not worth much more cost) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 13:58:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: For those that helped... I found my problem, and solution (sort of). It seems that the HP JetDirect EX's BootP client doesn't agree with Sustainable Softwork's DHCP server built into IPNetRouter. Once I moved my Win2k machine to a private lan, and setup the DHCP server on it, the JetDirect EX came to life quite nicely. It gets its IP address and runs very happily doing everything it should do. I would think that this problem might be fixed in a later firmware version, but in order to upgrade the firmware, I need a Flash SIMM for the JDEX. So unless someone on this list has one (or two since I have two of these things) and wants to give it to me for dirt cheap (free?), then I can't use these things on my network, and I just killed a day to find that out. So thanks for all the help everyone gave me. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 14:15:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Is a Sun DWIS/S card HVD or LVD? Message-ID: <20030613191103.71581.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> I have bought a Sun DWIS/S card to drop in an old SPARCstation and hopefully talk to some differential SCSI drives. What I can't confirm is which kind of differential SCSI the card supports. I'm guessing that the absense of any information means that it's HVD (which is not what I need right now). The SunSolve page on the controller is at: http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Devices/SCSI/SCSI_DWIS_S.html ...to remove any ambiguity about what card I have coming. Thanks for any illumination, -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 14:24:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: 286, 386, 486 parts Message-ID: I'm going to be stripping another round of machines... probably 10 or so. All 286, 386, or 486 systems. If anyone wants ANY parts from machines of that range, let me know and I'll see if I come across them. This goes for drives, cards, chips, cables, screws, anything. About the only parts I am currently interested in are standard AT power supplies (the plain box style that can be used in many different cases... any that are odd shaped I have no use for). Everything else that I will be finding will either be of no use to me or redundant enough that I will be happy to share. Let me know as this is what I will be doing the rest of today, and part of next week. The end of next week, the pile of unclaimed scrap goes to the dumpster. -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 15:02:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: DEC Qbus DC005 In-Reply-To: <4F0420AE0FEFD411978E00508B68A4AE09A315A4@vasale05misge.salem.ge.com> Message-ID: <20030613195745.61768.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "King, Esther M (IndSys, SalemVA)" wrote: > Tony, > Do you have any idea who still supplies this item? If you find out, tell us all! I did notice that for newer, non-DEC Qbus designs, I saw lots of 7438s and 8838s talking to the Qbus.* For old designs/repairs, you are, of course, stuck with whatever the vendor used, even if it's unobtanium. -ethan * - these were CompuServe-manufactured boards for their Intel-based Qbus communications servers that replaced the older DEC-PDP-11-based comms servers. One of the dual-height cards had a wad of SMT 8838s. I didn't know you could _get_ 8838s in an SO package. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jun 13 15:43:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Siemens 6-611: Wierd yet cool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EEA536C.29711.E3870BF5@localhost> > > I recently found a computer to which I have never seen likes: The > > Siemens 6-611. Although I'm just getting started within serious > > collecting, this is an interesting machine. > > It features more than one 80851 (I counted 4), A Z84, and a bunch of > > AY-something chips. It has a v. large mainboard. > > It has a console I think is serial, with a wierd textile covering the > > CRT. The console is also labelled 6-611. The keyboard features > > indicators like ACK and a sexiful key. The monitor powers up, beeps, and > > the OK light on the KB lights up. > > Mass storage is an 8" drive, and a large HDD, 8" style. It has two > > separate power connectors, one for the hard drive logic, one for the > > motor and mechanics. > > Upon powerup, smoke erupted from the powersupply, which I think were > > filter caps. (ARGH, the SMELL!) The system worked fine after that. The > > monitor has a power switch and AC out for the system, which doesn't. The > > monitor also regulates the power to 230v (In comparison to 235v in > > Norway.) > > I lacked the cable from the console to the machine at that time, a > > standard serial cable, DB-9. > This may be one of their early building automation system computers. > I've never had the chance to see one of the Siemens systems, but the JC80 > I'm still gathering parts for could also be configured to use similar > storage means. > The DB-9 port you describe may not be for a console. Many of the > automation systems were designed to communicate with other devices and/or > computers, one of which might have provided the means to program the > system. Usually such automation system computers would be programmed and > run for very long periods without anyone needing to change their program. Before y'all run in circles, the 6.611 is a Word Processing System from the mid/late 70s, 8085 based. It was available in various configurations. The screen is/should always be a regular BAS (Composite) CRT, while the keyboard was serial. Usualy a dasy wheel printer was inclused. the early 6.610s where buld in a sturdy steel desk ... I always guesst they could even survive a direct atomic hit. The System itself was straight forward. THe original 6.610 had one or two 8" drives, while the 6.611 and 12 later on even featured hard disks (like you have). For the numbering sceme, back then Siemens did structure their systems in in a basic range - 3 where control systems, 5 office or telcom systems, 6 small/midrange computers and 7 mainframes. The next digit named a basic family, while the 3rd denoted a Family of more or less similar systems, and the last finaly just numbered the machines. At least for the mainframes, higher numbers usualy ment more power. (*1) Anyway, if I dig deep enough, I might find some documentation and Software. Gruss H. (*1) Now, just recently a totaly new idea came up at the service department: using a hirachical system to create a product code. This will solve all problems about connecting skils and products. Of course it was necersary to emply a consulting firm for some non disclosed money to come up with such a totaly new and unforeseen idea... We all now, good management always assume that looking back, or good beware listening to their own experts is bad practice and therfore to avoide at any cost. Of course the new system replaces all thoughs of the old by random asumptions - what else do you expect from _external_ experts! -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jun 13 15:52:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Items wanted in the UK for purchase or lease In-Reply-To: References: <000201c31668$67b2d950$8cdd86d9@graemedntzltme> Message-ID: <3EEA5586.19390.E38F4185@localhost> F > I've received this request for a couple of items wanted on this side of the > pond. If anyone can help can they contact Tony Edwards directly on either > the number in the message below or at tedwards@tech-group.co.uk. >----- > Regards - Tony Edwards > 01793 833440 > The Technologies Group > www.tech-group.co.uk >----- Well, he's mailing around since some time, but as far as I know never accepted an offer ... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 13 16:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Items wanted in the UK for purchase or lease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Witchy wrote: > I am trying to aquire a copy of Vintage computer parts for our Chairman to > put on display in our new building. > > The first item Circa 1970 - GRI-909 Mini Computer - This is a tough one Does anyone have a GRI-909 here? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jun 13 16:18:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Is a Sun DWIS/S card HVD or LVD? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Is a Sun DWIS/S card HVD or LVD?" (Jun 13, 12:11) References: <20030613191103.71581.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10306132211.ZM12342@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 13, 12:11, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have bought a Sun DWIS/S card to drop in an old SPARCstation and > hopefully talk to some differential SCSI drives. What I can't > confirm is which kind of differential SCSI the card supports. I'm > guessing that the absense of any information means that it's HVD > (which is not what I need right now). > > The SunSolve page on the controller is at: > > http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Devices/SCSI/SCSI_DWIS_S.html > > ...to remove any ambiguity about what card I have coming. > > Thanks for any illumination, It's the original "ordinary" differential, not LVD and certainly not LVD/SE. In other words, what some people call HVD. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 13 16:19:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Mike Ross wrote: > Think this is part of what you're looking for: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2535770466 > > As soon as I get 'em, I'll scan 'em, in my Copious Free Time. I definitely don't have them then as those don't look familiar. But I'm glad someone does ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jun 13 18:36:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 55 & 56 Message-ID: I've added an IBM PS/2 Model 55 and Model 56 to my pile of machines heading to be junked. If anyone wants them or parts from them... let me know. Like the 286-486's the end of next week, the pile goes to the dumpster to speak up before then. -chris From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Jun 13 19:49:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: WTB:Sun Aurora 2 SCSI cable Message-ID: <3EEA7150.4020606@charter.net> Does anyone have a internal SCSI cable for a SS5 in the Aurora 2 chassic. I picked up a SS5 with thew 170mhz chip but the SCSI cable between the motherboard and the SCA backplane is missing. The Sun p/n is a 530-2278. I can pay via Paypal. James -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 13 23:20:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> References: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3EEAA151.3040500@internet1.net> The lady at my local UPS Depot tries to pull that original packing garbage on me too. She always questions me on exactly how I boxed it, and acts like she's doing me a big favor when she accepts it. It really bugs me. The last few times I've used Fedex, since they're cheaper, and don't hassle me about boxes. Hmm, lets see, maybe I'll purposely package this poorly, so I can go through more hassle by failing a claim? Yeah right!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David Woyciesjes wrote: > I'm sure you guys will enjoy the humor in this... > > I went to the shipping counter at the UPS hub here, with a box that has > an Atari 800, disk drive, and software. The guy at the counter asked > what I was shipping... > > "Oh, just some software, and an old computer and disk drive." > "Copmuter? It that the original packing?" > "Huh? Uh, no. It's an _old_ Atari copmuter." > (Confused glance from him at the mention of the word 'Atari') > "Well, uh, lets take a look...What's this?" > "Umm, A disk drive..." > "Well, uh, we can't ship it like this. It has to be in the original box" > "Really. Since this computer is about 20 years old, I highly doubt that > the original boxes still even exists in this world. So now what am I > supposed to do?" > (Blank look from him)"Well, let me tape this box back up for you" > > As I take the box to the FedEx hub next door, I wonder where this guy > has been in the 80's. He has to be at least 30 years old... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From marvin at rain.org Fri Jun 13 23:56:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... References: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> <3EEAA151.3040500@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3EEAA9C1.DC2935A6@rain.org> Chad Fernandez wrote: > > The lady at my local UPS Depot tries to pull that original packing > garbage on me too. She always questions me on exactly how I boxed it, > and acts like she's doing me a big favor when she accepts it. It really Have you every tried questioning here "credentials" as to knowing proper packaging techniques? I've never had a problem with USPS, UPS, or FedEx. But I am also accused of packaging to survive a nuclear explosion :). From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jun 14 00:39:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EEAA151.3040500@internet1.net> Message-ID: <01f701c33236$a5b45eb0$947ba8c0@p933> There is a reason UPS wears brown. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:15 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: Rant about UPS... The lady at my local UPS Depot tries to pull that original packing garbage on me too. She always questions me on exactly how I boxed it, and acts like she's doing me a big favor when she accepts it. It really bugs me. The last few times I've used Fedex, since they're cheaper, and don't hassle me about boxes. Hmm, lets see, maybe I'll purposely package this poorly, so I can go through more hassle by failing a claim? Yeah right!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David Woyciesjes wrote: > I'm sure you guys will enjoy the humor in this... > > I went to the shipping counter at the UPS hub here, with a box that has > an Atari 800, disk drive, and software. The guy at the counter asked > what I was shipping... > > "Oh, just some software, and an old computer and disk drive." > "Copmuter? It that the original packing?" > "Huh? Uh, no. It's an _old_ Atari copmuter." > (Confused glance from him at the mention of the word 'Atari') > "Well, uh, lets take a look...What's this?" > "Umm, A disk drive..." > "Well, uh, we can't ship it like this. It has to be in the original box" > "Really. Since this computer is about 20 years old, I highly doubt that > the original boxes still even exists in this world. So now what am I > supposed to do?" > (Blank look from him)"Well, let me tape this box back up for you" > > As I take the box to the FedEx hub next door, I wonder where this guy > has been in the 80's. He has to be at least 30 years old... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 14 00:45:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... References: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> <3EEAA151.3040500@internet1.net> <3EEAA9C1.DC2935A6@rain.org> Message-ID: <002001c33236$de621ae0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Some people cant pack an item to save their lives. I had somebody send me a zip drive and he packed it in a larger box with no packing and the thing just bounced around all the way from california to ohio. Of cousre the plastic bezel broke ( I glued it, unit works fine). Fortunatly all the computer system I had sent to me were overpacked and nothing ever got messed up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 12:51 AM Subject: Re: OT: Rant about UPS... > Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > The lady at my local UPS Depot tries to pull that original packing > > garbage on me too. She always questions me on exactly how I boxed it, > > and acts like she's doing me a big favor when she accepts it. It really > > Have you every tried questioning here "credentials" as to knowing proper > packaging techniques? I've never had a problem with USPS, UPS, or FedEx. > But I am also accused of packaging to survive a nuclear explosion :). From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 14 02:24:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EEAA9C1.DC2935A6@rain.org> References: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> <3EEAA151.3040500@internet1.net> <3EEAA9C1.DC2935A6@rain.org> Message-ID: <3EEACC17.9070400@internet1.net> Marvin Johnston wrote: > Have you every tried questioning here "credentials" as to knowing proper > packaging techniques? That seems piontless..... she works for UPS, I'm sure that gives her all the credentails she needs in her mind. Besides, I don't think making her mad would help. > I've never had a problem with USPS, UPS, or FedEx. > But I am also accused of packaging to survive a nuclear explosion :). Yes, I pack them pretty well too, even heavy items. I double box, build crush zones, use plenty of tape, and so on, but it needs to be in the original box, because only the OEM really knows how to pack a box! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sat Jun 14 06:19:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? Message-ID: <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi all, Being a new comer to the hobby, I have not posted much on the forum before. The subject however is one that has recently been brought to my attention, and hopefully will bring about some debate. Here is the scenario. You've just come home from the Antique show/Trash and treasure/garage sale. You've picked up a nice new toy, hopefully at least a little less than the price you should have paid. (With the blessing of the other half of course) You know it's not a worker and have a general idea of the condition of course. You just can't wait to get it back to the workshop. You take the cover off and...... How much do people think is too much restoration??? Now obviously you aren't going to spent thousands on a system that even in the distant future will not even generate hundreds, and obviously you aren't going to rebuild and replace every part in the item, because then it's a replica not an antique. Obviously however a going system is more valuable than a broken one. So to what lengths do you go to fix it?? For quite some time I have had in my possession a fairly old system that I am told is "historically significant". For those that know what one is it is an EDUC-8 a descrete logic CPU/Programming trainer from the mid 70's. There seems to be two main opinions among computer collectors. Opinion 1: The collector who collects entirely for the sake of owning the object in question and is not concerned about operating it or whether the item works as planned. They will buy an antique for preservation and think it is sacrilegious to do any restoration other than maybe a "spit and polish". Opinion 2: The collector who collects with the intention of restoration. Who might go to extreme lengths to rebuild and restore the item he has brought, because to him the idea of keeping something that isn't working as planed is against God and nature. Without getting into protracted discusion about the theology of either collector, I would like to hear the opinions on the list about how far a restoration should go before it starts detracting from the value of the piece. I know this is a complex issue, and obviously depends on allot of factors, but surely there are SOME guide lines that should or could be followed. I am about to start a complex restoration on the EDUC-8 and am hoping the experts on the list will give me some ideas based on their experience with other systems. Idealy I would love the thing to be actually working. Possibly with some replica I/O interfacing. I must say the the system is at best in "fair to poor" condition, and without some attention it will probably deteriate further. I supose I could just clean it up and place it in a "display case" but I tend to be a collector of more the second opinion than the first. Obviously however I do not wish to "distroy" the "vintage" significance of the unit either Hope to hear from you soon..... Peter T. From marvin at rain.org Sat Jun 14 08:50:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... References: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> <3EEAA151.3040500@internet1.net> <3EEAA9C1.DC2935A6@rain.org> <3EEACC17.9070400@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3EEB26E1.E7C8761D@rain.org> Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Have you every tried questioning here "credentials" as to knowing proper > > packaging techniques? > > That seems piontless..... she works for UPS, I'm sure that gives her all > the credentails she needs in her mind. Besides, I don't think making > her mad would help. Does irritating you help? If it doesn't bother you, then who cares. If it does, then say something :)! From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jun 14 09:00:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EEAA151.3040500@internet1.net> References: <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> <3EE9D4A5.4C78D09@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030614144859.02f13c80@pop.freeserve.net> Well, assuming you get them to accept the parcel, that's only half the battle. If you have web access, check out a thread currently running on ebid.co.uk (a UK based FREE auction site we've been selling a lot of [non CC-related] stuff on) - initially about our "good ol'" Royal Mail, but thrn about the rough treatment given packages by pretty much all the carriers. http://sumo.ebid.co.uk/community/viewtopic.php?t=793 Basically, pack anything to withstand a nuclear explosion, because that's not much sort of what it'll experience... Rob. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 14 10:32:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators References: <002601c3308e$15d9f240$841185d8@iancarvalho> Message-ID: <3EEB3F11.4010205@tiac.net> Is anyone here familiar with the HP 1350 (or HP 1351) graphics translators, or low-level HPIB protocol debugging? For curious minds not familiar with this device, the HP 1350 is a vector graphics controller with a 1K by 1K addressable display space. Usually they come with a HPIB interface but there was a serial (RS-232) I/O option. The HP 1350 can draw vectors or letters and symbols with a simple ASCII command language (called GTML) and its own internal display list memory, and were often used with older HP calculators and computers such as the HP 1000 line. I have been tinkering with a HP 1350 using a HP 1000 minicomputer and the 12821A bus interface, as well as a HP bus analyzer to see whats going on at the bus level. I've run into a bit of a problem, perhaps someone here can help? As long at I have the HP bus analyzer connected, and set for SLOW or HALT bus speeds, I can correctly transfer commands and data to the HP 1350 (a listen only device). When the bus analyzer is removed, or connected and set to FAST the bus transfers will lock up at the inter-command "::" seperator characters. Its almost as if the HP 1350 cannot signal the bus that it needs to wait and think about the last command. What would happen if a HPIB listener could not drive NRFD? I think that there are three possibilities here.. 1. A hardware problem in the HP 1350. I have swapped the HPIB interface module with one from a 'parts machine' HP 1350, and the behavior was exactly the same. I also swapped a logic control and timing board, but the one from the parts machine does not draw vectors very well, and the bus protocol issue appears to have been uneffected. Also the HP 1350 draws beautiful vectors, with perfect end-point matching, and the letters are very well formed. The 'hard' parts of the machine are really working so well, I'm skeptical there is a hardware fault here (which is not being objective). 2. A GTML protocol problem. I have very limited documentation for the HP 1350, a partial photocopy of a manual that uses an ancient HP calculator to drive the display controller. Maybe there is some trick to formatting command strings that makes it handshake properly? 3. A HPIB bus controller driver problem. I'm using the HP 12821A interface to drive the HPIB bus. Normally this is a 'high-speed' bus interface used for ICD or CS/80 disks on HP 1000 systems. A very different bus interface, the 59310B is used for instrument control, and it lacks the FIFO buffering of the 12821A. But the software I'm using to drive the 12821A interface is written from scratch (a handful of keywords added to a custom threaded interpreter) so it must be suspect to some degree. Perhaps I'm not driving the bus properly, but there is some evidence that this is NOT the case. For example, I can use the same bus control keywords to send data to a HP 3325 function generator perfectly at high speeds. Then again, the HP 3325 has an internal buffer and processor. The HP 1350 is a very simple discrete logic state machine with no buffers or microprocessor. And the bus control code does handshake with the bus analyzer set for SLOW or HALT. So it ~looks~ like my bus driver code is working, at least for talking to listeners and addressing devices. I do know the 12821A bus controller is 'good', as I'm able to boot from a CS/80 disk drive with this board and cable. So I'm quite sure there is no hardware problem with the bus master / controller hardware. I'd like to be able to send data to the HP 1350 as fast as it can possibly accept it without the bus analyzer installed. One option would be to try adding some software delays and slow down the bus, but HPIB is NOT supposed to work like this! I do have the HPIB bus analyzer and a good scope, but I'm just unfamiliar enough with HPIB to not be sure where to start looking. All I can imagine, is that for some reason, the HP1350 is using some vartion of HPIB handshaking, or its not asserting NRFD when its processing a command. Maybe with a slow host this was not a factor, and this is a known bug of the device. Hardware fault or 'bug'? Or perhaps some obscure feature of the 12821A interface that would not happen if I were using the (proper) 59310B board? I would love to re-write my instrument control keywords for the 59310B bus I/O board, but I do not have a copy of the interface manual for it. If anyone can make a photocopy or a scan of the 59310 BUS I/O manual available, its greatly needed! Any suggestions? From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 14 11:29:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EEACC17.9070400@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Have you every tried questioning here "credentials" as to knowing proper > > packaging techniques? > > That seems piontless..... she works for UPS, I'm sure that gives her all > the credentails she needs in her mind. Besides, I don't think making > her mad would help. As others have mentioned, Fedex Ground is usually cheaper. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jun 14 12:24:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > As others have mentioned, Fedex Ground is usually cheaper. > This is a perennial thread here; and with good reason - a lot of us recieve items and have occasion to ship Stuff. I dislike UPS - they've mangled their share of my Stuff, and always seem to have a whiff of 'tude. OTOH, I have a FedEx Ground account. It's free, and I just put in the particulars of whats going where - the system prints out a barcoded label, and I'm good to go. I have to take the box(es) to the FedEx folk, since one of the reasons Ground is cheap is that they don't provide pick-up service - but since FedEx locations are easy to find, this has not been a problem for me. My account charges my credit card directly for the shipping costs, and, since eveything's pre-labelled, the Stuff goes right on the conveyor and that's that. The Ground Account pages then track all my shipments automatically for me on one summary page, which is nice if one doea a lot of eBay work - I'll sometimes have 10 or 12 boxes in transit to various corners of the planet. And it don't take half a brain to figure out that it's the job of a carrier to get your parcel to it's destination - it's *your* job to pack it so it gets there in the condition you intended it to. I don't see what's so hard about that. Like Chad, I bubble-wrap and double-box, use crushed-up newspaper, plastic wrap - I've never had a problem, so far. YMMV John From mranalog at attbi.com Sat Jun 14 13:21:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:22 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... Message-ID: <3EEB6C97.322CEA7C@attbi.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > As others have mentioned, Fedex Ground is usually cheaper. And in a recent experience I found that having FedEx ground deliver to your job instead of your home is always cheaper and in my case for a heavy, long crate was about 20% cheaper. Try leaving the 'Shipping to Residence' button unchecked when checking prices. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From emu at ecubics.com Sat Jun 14 13:42:00 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators References: <002601c3308e$15d9f240$841185d8@iancarvalho> <3EEB3F11.4010205@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3EEB6BCB.1030304@ecubics.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > For curious minds not familiar with this device, the HP 1350 is a vector > graphics controller with a 1K by 1K addressable > display space. Usually they come with a HPIB interface but there was a > serial (RS-232) I/O option. The HP 1350 can > draw vectors or letters and symbols with a simple ASCII command language > (called GTML) and its own internal display > list memory, and were often used with older HP calculators and computers > such as the HP 1000 line. Can you tell us more about this thing ? I was always fascinated by vector sceens (One day, I have to try to build my own controller ;-) I tried google, but HP decided to make a printer cartridge with that number, so no fun there ... And, probably you have to wait for tony. He has one of this things too ;-) cheers From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 14 14:45:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators References: <002601c3308e$15d9f240$841185d8@iancarvalho> <3EEB3F11.4010205@tiac.net> <3EEB6BCB.1030304@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3EEB7A33.7000807@tiac.net> The HP 1350A has two 10-bit digital to analog converters that appear to drive an analog vector generator that is very similar to those used in some of the older vector arcade games. The memory capacity is 2048 instructions, and each instruction can be a (light or dark) vector, or a letter or symbol. All addressing is absolute, and there is no short-vector relative addressing like an Imlac PDS-1 or VT-11 vector generator. The 2048 word memory can be divided up into 'files' that can be selectivly blanked, cleared or overwritten. A simple TTL state-machine drives X and Y axis ALU/Accumulators that feed the discrete transistor-ladder DAC's for each axis. Some logic looks at the vector lenght and optimises the writing speed and Z axis intensity, but this is by far the weakest feature of the device. Some shorter to intermediate lenght vectors are drawn too brightly, enough to be noticable. There are some ROM subroutines that generate letters and symbols, and an additional socket allows custom symbols to be displayed with a single-word instuction. There does not appear to be any form of light-pen input as on the VT-11 and some (optional) Imlac's. To get a HP 1350 working, you need some coaxial cables and an X/Y monitor. I've used a HP 1335, as well as some Tektronic's X/Y monitors (420 and 611). I've found that with the Tek monitors I can get a perfect X/Y aspect ration by using a 75 ohm and 50 ohm coaxial terminator for the X and Y axis (using BNC T fittings). You also need some sort of HPIB host to drive the thing, although a PIC-based RS-232 adaptor should be quite easy to design. The basic 'GTML' language is ASCII-based. You address the device (like any HPIB listener) and send it strings of commands and data. A set of LED's on the front pannel will show what context the data is being read in (commands versus data). As the commands are read, the HP 1350 will alter its internal memory and start to draw vectors and symbols. Lines are drawn with the PA (plot absolute) instruction: PA(X coordinate),(Y coordinate);(X coordinate),(Y coordinate) These can be strung together for form complex lines like: PA0,0;0,100;100,100 And so on. You control visible versus invisible vectors with the PE (pen enable) instruction: PE1, - Pen enabled, draw bright vectors. PE0, - Pen disabled, draw dark vectors. Additionally you can enter text mode with the TX instruction: TXHELLO WORLD! Will draw 'HELLO WORLD!' on the screen in the current text size and orientation. Text can be drawn at 4 sizes and in two 90-degree rotations. Basic ASCII text formatting functions are supported like CR, LE, etc. As with any analog vector generator, the 'quality' of the vector display directly reflects the finesse of the hardware designers and the quality of physical construction. Like other simlar HP equipment the HP 1350 uses top quality components and the analog design practices used are excellent, so the vectors are sharp and crisp, with well defined end points. The linearity of the analog vector circuits is excellent so the lines are very straight and the end-points match very well. Physically the HP 1350 is a small 3 1/2 tall rack-mountable box with a power switch and a few LED's on the front pannel. Inside one large PCH holds the X and Y axis accumulators and DAC's. Two smaller logic boards sit below with what appears to be the control state machine and Z axis logic on one board, and the HPIB (or optionally serial) I/O board on the other. The box is about 18 inches deep, but its rather light for its volume. I have 2 HP 1350A's and one HP 1351A, but only one of the 1350A's is operational. Both of the other machines appear to have power supply problems or are incomplete. If your HP 1350 powers up and you get the red power interupt light, try to address it and send it "20,13,10" (decimal) and it should clear the interupt led and remain in Listen, Command state. Now its ready to for commands like 'EM' to erase the display memory and begin drawing vectors. Being a totally external box, the vector display list does not take up host CPU memory like the VT-11 or Imlac PDS-1, but the host also does not have the same instant access to the display list, a pretty clear distinction between the 1350 and the other two vectors generators I'm familiar with. If your looking for a vector display system and you have a HPIB interface, I'd reccomend the HP 1350 as being quite easy to get working. I'm not sure I undersand my HPIB protocol problem just yet, but I'm using very experimental software so this is not unexpected. emanuel stiebler wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > >> For curious minds not familiar with this device, the HP 1350 is a >> vector graphics controller with a 1K by 1K addressable >> display space. Usually they come with a HPIB interface but there >> was a serial (RS-232) I/O option. The HP 1350 can >> draw vectors or letters and symbols with a simple ASCII command >> language (called GTML) and its own internal display >> list memory, and were often used with older HP calculators and >> computers such as the HP 1000 line. > > > Can you tell us more about this thing ? I was always fascinated by > vector sceens (One day, I have to try to build my own controller ;-) > > I tried google, but HP decided to make a printer cartridge with that > number, so no fun there ... > > And, probably you have to wait for tony. He has one of this things too > ;-) > > cheers From aek at spies.com Sat Jun 14 15:13:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators Message-ID: <200306142010.h5EKATlG018501@spies.com> I've uploaded scans of the service and programming manuals for the 1351A to www.spies.com/aek/pdf/hp/graphics From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jun 14 16:12:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... Message-ID: >As others have mentioned, Fedex Ground is usually cheaper. Just watch it on the FedEx Ground pick ups. They charge an $11 weekly fee for each week a pickup occurs in (one fee, as many pickups and packages in the week as you want). If you send rarely, this can very easily negate the price savings over other carriers like UPS since you can't spread the fee across multiple packages. Of course, you can do what I do and just drop the package off at a FedEx depot and then they don't charge you the fee. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jun 14 16:16:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... Message-ID: >I have to take the box(es) to the FedEx folk, since >one of the reasons Ground is cheap is that they don't provide pick-up >service - but since FedEx locations are easy to find, They do provide pickup to some areas. But they charge an $11 a week fee for any week in which pickups occur. I do have them pickup from my office when I can charge the cost off to a client, or when the packages are just too damn big for me to bother taking to the depot (like Friday they picked up 5 50lb boxes full of laptops... too much for me to bother hauling to the depot, and I could charge the $11 directly to my client so I didn't care). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jun 14 16:18:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... Message-ID: > And in a recent experience I found that having >FedEx ground deliver to your job instead of your >home is always cheaper and in my case for a heavy, >long crate was about 20% cheaper. > Try leaving the 'Shipping to Residence' button >unchecked when checking prices. On the other hand, they also offer a nice "scheduled delivery" feature for residential deliveries. You can tell them what time of day you want it delivered. But you do pay thru the nose for this (I think the one time I looked at it, it was an $8.00 surcharge on a $10 package). -chris From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Jun 14 16:38:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EEB95EE.5050708@charter.net> My wife, who sells a lot more on ebay than I do, has a daily pickup account with UPS. Actually since I tend to overpack, I have had almost no trouble with UPS. The only damaged stuff I have shipped UPS was packed by MBE and arrived totally crushed. The only thing I have recieved the past two years that was damaged in shipment was a Daystar Genesis that was shipped via FedEx Ground. It looked like it had been dropped at least 10-12 feet. Every piece of plastic was totally crushed, the motherboard was actually cracked from the torsional forces and the frame of the case which is 14 guage steel was warped almost beyond recovery. I had paid for insurance for a stated value of $450 but FedEx Ground gave me the run around for three months. I finally told them to shove it up their a** and I paid the $225 to replace all of the bezels and motherboard myself. Ronda was using Priority Mail but the good ole USPS however has lost 2-3 packages a week that she has shipped in this calender year. She sends around 20-40 week so that is a large percentage of loss. She would rather refund someone who didn't get the deliver rather than fight through the headache of tracing and insurance recovery. Since the USPS tracking system sucks so bad, we switched to UPS. It's not only cheaper, it's been a lot more reliable. As UPS makes a daily run by our house anyway, I just include my few boxes in with her's. She sells kids party kits. Since it's all paper we don't have to worry about breakage. James http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From emu at ecubics.com Sat Jun 14 17:13:01 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators References: <002601c3308e$15d9f240$841185d8@iancarvalho> <3EEB3F11.4010205@tiac.net> <3EEB6BCB.1030304@ecubics.com> <3EEB7A33.7000807@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3EEB9D6F.2040906@ecubics.com> Bob Shannon wrote: [a long description ...] Thanks a lot ! > To get a HP 1350 working, you need some coaxial cables and an X/Y > monitor. I've used a HP 1335, as well as some > Tektronic's X/Y monitors (420 and 611). I've found that with the Tek > monitors I can get a perfect X/Y aspect ration by > using a 75 ohm and 50 ohm coaxial terminator for the X and Y axis (using > BNC T fittings). You also need some sort > of HPIB host to drive the thing, although a PIC-based RS-232 adaptor > should be quite easy to design. Any good source for this monitors ? I know, I could use my scope at the beginning, but a larger screen may be more fun ... cheers & thanks again P.S. I guess I got my winter project now ;-) From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 14 17:30:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators In-Reply-To: <3EEB9D6F.2040906@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > [a long description ...] > > Thanks a lot ! > > > To get a HP 1350 working, you need some coaxial cables and an X/Y > > monitor. I've used a HP 1335, as well as some > > Tektronic's X/Y monitors (420 and 611). I've found that with the Tek > > monitors I can get a perfect X/Y aspect ration by > > using a 75 ohm and 50 ohm coaxial terminator for the X and Y axis (using > > BNC T fittings). You also need some sort > > of HPIB host to drive the thing, although a PIC-based RS-232 adaptor > > should be quite easy to design. > > Any good source for this monitors ? Well, I have a Tek 4012 terminal in San Diego that was working when it was put away a number of years ago. - don > I know, I could use my scope at the beginning, but a larger screen may > be more fun ... > > cheers & thanks again > > P.S. I guess I got my winter project now ;-) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 14 17:30:43 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <002001c33236$de621ae0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> from "TeoZ" at Jun 14, 3 01:36:08 am Message-ID: > Some people cant pack an item to save their lives. I had somebody send me a > zip drive and he packed it in a larger box with no packing and the thing > just bounced around all the way from california to ohio. Of cousre the > plastic bezel broke ( I glued it, unit works fine). I once had a CRT (just the glass thing, I don't mean a complete monitor) sent to me by Parcelforce (AKA Parcelfarce), who are also well known for wrecking parcels [1] The idiot who sent it put the CRT in a large box with no packing, no protection round the pins or sealing tube, or anything. Now what amazes me is how it all arrived in one piece and working (!).... [1] I was cent an HP9830. HP stuff of that vintage is _solid_. It still arrived with the metal case dented, several keycaps off, and the keyboard bezel broken into several pieces... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 14 17:31:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> from "peter tremewen" at Jun 14, 3 09:13:55 pm Message-ID: > How much do people think is too much restoration??? Now obviously Well, my view is simple. The machine originally worked. I want to restore it to as near original condition as possible. Therefore it must work again... I am not interested in collecting as an investment. I collect computers because they _are_ computers -- they're interesting (and sometimes complex) electronic systems that can be investigated, programmed, modified, etc. A non-working computer -- one that can't be made to work -- is of little interest to me. > you aren't going to spent thousands on a system that even in the distant > future will not even generate hundreds, and obviously you aren't going to Actually, I might. If I had no chance of getting another one, then I'd _certainly_ do whatever was necessary to get it going again. Hobbies do not make financial sense! > rebuild and replace every part in the item, because then it's a replica not an I wouldn't replave unnecessary parts, and I'd replace the smallest part that I could (e.g. I'd change a chip, not the entire PCB). But I would replace as many chips as were necessary. And I'd certainly inspect and maybe rebuild mechanical sections (including fans!) > antique. Obviously however a going system is more valuable than a broken one. It's certainly more valuable for me. In that it can provide me with a source of interest -- programming, interfacing, etc. > Opinion 2: The collector who collects with the intention of > restoration. Who might go to extreme lengths to rebuild and restore the item > he has brought, because to him the idea of keeping something that isn't > working as planed is against God and nature. I am definitely of that type... > > > Without getting into protracted discusion about the theology of either > collector, I would like to hear the opinions on the list about how far a > restoration should go before it starts detracting from the value of the piece. Well, I'm not really interested in value, but I do have some ground rules to follow : 1) _Never_ change the basic architecture of the machine. Ripping out all the boards and replacing them with a PC running a simulation of the original machine is not a restoration 2) Do not make permanent modifications, unless unavoidable. Don't cut PCB traces if you can avoid it, and avoid drilling holes larger than screwholes. 3) Use components as close to the original as possible. Personally, I don't care about date codes, and I might well use a 74LS00 to replace a 7400 if that's all I had. 4) Don't fake things. Others will moan about this, but I object to the practice of hiding modern capacitors inside the empty shells of old ones to preserve the appearance of the machine. Such practices might well confuse restorers in the future!. NEVER fake IC numbers (as in changing that 74LS00 number to 7400, or worse changing a GAL16V8 to PAL16L8). This will cause problems 5) Document what you've done. Certainly in a separate log book (yes, I know it can get lost, but it's better than having no docs at all). Maybe on a label stuck to the chassis if the mod is non-obvious and could be a problem later. > Obviously however I do not wish to "distroy" the "vintage" significance of the > unit either Well, I've done the above sort of thing to machines where the total known number cna be counted on the fingers of both hands (and sometimes on the fingers of one hand) -- in unary. Maybe I did ruin the vintage significance of these machines, but to be honest, a working machine has much more significance to me (and to the owners of the machines I did this sort of thing for) in that we can now see what the machines were like to use, to program, etc. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 14 17:31:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators In-Reply-To: <3EEB3F11.4010205@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jun 14, 3 11:28:17 am Message-ID: > Is anyone here familiar with the HP 1350 (or HP 1351) graphics > translators, or low-level HPIB protocol debugging? I have a pair of HP1350s, and the complete operating/service manual. The latter is a rather thick binder containing schematics, parts lists, theory of operation, etc.... > > For curious minds not familiar with this device, the HP 1350 is a vector > graphics controller with a 1K by 1K addressable It's actually 1024*1023 points. You can also display text on the screen (the little daugterboard on the main display board contains the character generator ROMs, etc). This is stred by a value of 1023 in one axis (normally illeagal), and the character code, flags, etc in the other axis. Display memory is a row of 4K DRAM chips, of course. One odd feature is that there's no CPU, and no logic wired up in a CPU-like fashion. It's all essentially random logic. To decode ASCII commands/data to vectors in random logic is a somewhat perverse hack. There are 2 10 bit DACs on the mainboard, mostly discrete components. THere are 2 rows of 6 presets that set up the top 6 bits of each DAC. Due to their appearance and function, most hackers call this the 'graphic equaliser' :-) > display space. Usually they come with a HPIB interface but there was a > serial (RS-232) I/O option. The HP 1350 can I on;t have data on the HPIB version. > draw vectors or letters and symbols with a simple ASCII command language > (called GTML) and its own internal display > list memory, and were often used with older HP calculators and computers > such as the HP 1000 line. > > I have been tinkering with a HP 1350 using a HP 1000 minicomputer and > the 12821A bus interface, as well as a HP bus analyzer to see whats > going on at the bus level. I've run into a bit of a problem, perhaps > someone here can help? > > As long at I have the HP bus analyzer connected, and set for SLOW or > HALT bus speeds, I can correctly transfer commands and data to the HP > 1350 (a listen only device). When the bus analyzer is removed, or > connected and set to FAST the bus transfers > will lock up at the inter-command "::" seperator characters. Its almost > as if the HP 1350 cannot signal the bus that it needs to > wait and think about the last command. > > What would happen if a HPIB listener could not drive NRFD? THis does sound like an HPIB interface/timing problem... There is a troubleshooting procedure in the manual for the I/O card. I'll give the first bit of it here. It assumes you have an HP9825 calculator as the controller, but I guess you can modify this for other machines. At least knowing where it goes wrong would be a start. It gives a lot more explantion in the manual, but I'll give that for the problem area only 1 Listen program check. a) Cycle 1350 power b) Type [Reset[ wrt 718 [Execute] on the 9825 c) Check program LED is on, data LED is off 2) Unlisten check a) Type cmd 7,?" [execute] b) check program and data LEDs both off 3) Listen Data check a) Type [reset] wtb 718,"PA" [Execute] (note, this does not send CR/LF) b) Check program LED off, Data LED on 4) Return to listen progrma check a) Type wrt 718,":" [Execute] b) Check data LED off, program LED on 5) Clear power interrupt LED check a) type wtb 718,20,13,10 [execute] (that's sending DC4, CR, LF) b) Verify power interrupt LED off, program LED on 6) Pen enable check a) Type wrt 718"PE0,"[execute] b) check U35 pin 5 is low (U35 is in the column of chips at the edge of the PCB closest to the HPIB connector, and is in the 6th row from the HPIB end) c) Type wrt 718"PE1,"[execute] d) Check U35 in 5 is high And so on... However, this may not be a fault with the 1350. It sounds as though, for some reason, the handshake is not being completed properly. Do you know what state DAV, NRFD, NDAC are in when the bus locks up. Do you have data on the interface in the HP1000 -- can you tell if that's in a sane state or not? > I think that there are three possibilities here.. > > 1. A hardware problem in the HP 1350. > > I have swapped the HPIB interface module with one from a 'parts machine' > HP 1350, and the behavior was exactly the same. Interesting. So it doesn't sound like is module is playing up (unless both have the same fault) > I also swapped a logic control and timing board, but the one from the > parts machine does not draw vectors very well, and the > bus protocol issue appears to have been uneffected. Right... > > Also the HP 1350 draws beautiful vectors, with perfect end-point > matching, and the letters are very well formed. The 'hard' > parts of the machine are really working so well, I'm skeptical there is > a hardware fault here (which is not being objective). Hmmm... One IC failure coupld cause a problem, and wouldn't necessarily affect vector generation. > > 2. A GTML protocol problem. > > I have very limited documentation for the HP 1350, a partial photocopy > of a manual that uses an ancient HP calculator to drive > the display controller. Maybe there is some trick to formatting command > strings that makes it handshake properly? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 14 17:32:09 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators In-Reply-To: <3EEB6BCB.1030304@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Jun 14, 3 12:39:07 pm Message-ID: > Can you tell us more about this thing ? I was always fascinated by > vector sceens (One day, I have to try to build my own controller ;-) Indeed, I find them rather fun too.... (Let's see, I have the 1350, a DEC GT40, and a Vectres (yes, I know I don't like video games, but this thing has a vector display and a 68A09 processor, so it's worth getting ;-))). > And, probably you have to wait for tony. He has one of this things too ;-) One??? I have a pair of them :-) -tony From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sat Jun 14 20:43:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: Power Supply Problem? Message-ID: <3EEBCE01.3B8D2DB8@compsys.to> I could use some help with a hardware problem?? PLEASE!! Two weeks ago, my system crashed because both hard disk drives failed. I replaced them (and sent the bad ones in for replacement under warranty), but did not do anything else since at the time it seemed that the more likely problem was something random. Some additional information - I looked at the disk drives before they were returned for replacement and they would not spin up when the logic board was still connected, but when the logic board was disconnected, spin-up did take place. It seems likely that the logic boards were fried. Just last week, the system crashed again and would not even power up. This seemed to point to the power supply and it was replaced. Now the system is working perfectly again. The latter time, the replacement disk drives were not harmed. Can anyone help with a reasonable estimate as to whether or not it seems more or less likely that the cause of both problems was the power supply or not? The system had probably been running a total of about the equivalent of 3 years of continuous use. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 14 20:47:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EEB95EE.5050708@charter.net> References: <3EEB95EE.5050708@charter.net> Message-ID: <3EEBCE08.4010409@internet1.net> James Rice wrote: > The only thing I have > received the past two years that was damaged in shipment was a Daystar > Genesis that was shipped via FedEx Ground. It looked like it had been > dropped at least 10-12 feet. Every piece of plastic was totally > crushed, the motherboard was actually cracked from the torsional forces > and the frame of the case which is 14 guage steel was warped almost > beyond recovery. I received an old Intel PC based server that had been dropped by UPS. I figure it must have fallen off one of there conveyors. It wasn't as bad as your sounds, Though. I ended up taking a few parts from it, and scrapping the rest. The seller refunded my money. Since he was the shipper, not the receiver, he was the one that had to fight with "Brown" :-) I won out in the end, because the server ended up being only a similar model, not the exact model, that I expected. I had a big rack mount Intel PPro bare bones server that got damaged on it's way too me, too. UPS came and picked that one up. I don't recall how that one was settled. I only had the $100 included insurance on it, and I had paid more than that. I think the seller.... a larger Ebay outfit, refunded the whole amount. I think they ate the difference. I like shipping USPS, but only on light things now. I used them for most things until they raised there prices. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sat Jun 14 21:30:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030615022527.64297.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lawson wrote: > OTOH, I have a FedEx Ground account. It's free, > and I just put in the > particulars of whats going where - the system prints > out a barcoded label, > and I'm good to go. I have to take the box(es) to > the FedEx folk, since > one of the reasons Ground is cheap is that they > don't provide pick-up > service - but since FedEx locations are easy to > find, this has not been a > problem for me. My account charges my credit card > directly for the > shipping costs, and, since eveything's pre-labelled, > the Stuff goes right > on the conveyor and that's that. > Oh, I had one of those lovely FedEx accounts, great until one day I open my monthly statement and it looks like this $23.42 $18.23 $42.98 $42.98 $32.45 $32.45 $7.80 $7.80 get the picture? For some reason Fedex decided to start double charging each of my shipments, so a phone call to Fedex and half an hour later I get them removed, no problem. Next month the same thing happens, FedEx ramdomly double charging some shipments, so I call again and this time I get some moron on the phone who doesn't know how to log in to account system, he forwards me to some head account manager who instantly accuses me of not wanting to pay my bills! She said "See the statement, thats what you are supposed to pay, don't you understand the concept of an invoice?" It got worse after that, but safe to say, that card is gone and I am back to old manual "pay at the counter" way of shipping via USP and USPS. On another related issue, how many people here use services like stamps.com? I looked into them, but there is always a catch, they don't work well with international shipments (20% of my shipping) or if they do you still have to bring the item to the USPS counter because of the customs forms (instead of leaving it at your curbside postal box for pickup like you can with domestic shipments). From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 14 21:32:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators References: <002601c3308e$15d9f240$841185d8@iancarvalho> <3EEB3F11.4010205@tiac.net> <3EEB6BCB.1030304@ecubics.com> <3EEB7A33.7000807@tiac.net> <3EEB9D6F.2040906@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3EEBD9AE.6010501@tiac.net> Simple answer, eBay. emanuel stiebler wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > [a long description ...] > > Thanks a lot ! > >> To get a HP 1350 working, you need some coaxial cables and an X/Y >> monitor. I've used a HP 1335, as well as some >> Tektronic's X/Y monitors (420 and 611). I've found that with the Tek >> monitors I can get a perfect X/Y aspect ration by >> using a 75 ohm and 50 ohm coaxial terminator for the X and Y axis >> (using BNC T fittings). You also need some sort >> of HPIB host to drive the thing, although a PIC-based RS-232 adaptor >> should be quite easy to design. > > > Any good source for this monitors ? > I know, I could use my scope at the beginning, but a larger screen may > be more fun ... > > cheers & thanks again > > P.S. I guess I got my winter project now ;-) From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sat Jun 14 22:10:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... References: <3EEB95EE.5050708@charter.net> <3EEBCE08.4010409@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3EEBE259.6800CC44@compsys.to> Chad Fernandez wrote: > I like shipping USPS, but only on light things now. I used them for > most things until they raised there prices. Jerome Fine replies: Just to confirm the USPS experience mentioned earlier, I have send a number of packages of CDs to the US from Canada. I don't know exactly where they go astray, but about 20% of them did not arrive. These are usually packages of less than 100 grams, so they can be sent as "thick" letters. Even the ones which arrive usually take a few weeks - even though as letters they are sent via AIRMAIL. As mentioned earlier, the difficulty of collecting on insurance PLUS the extra cost does not seem to be worth while. My suggestion is to increase the funds received by about 20% to cover the extra shipments. OR ask the person receiving the package if they want insurance and in that case it is usually less expensive to send the packages without any tracking/insurance for the 20% that do not arrive. Usually, I am asked to send 3 Freeware CDs and since the amount is only about $ US 12 to $ US 15, anything but normal mail would increase the total by more than 50% - not worth while at this level with a missing rate of less than 20%. What I don't understand is why such a low percentage of letters go astray, but a much larger percentage of packages????????????? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Jun 14 22:15:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: Fwd: Halted Website Message-ID: This was forwarded to me from one of the lists, a thread about "What to visit while in the bay area" and I suggested Halted. "Jim" was looking for a particular kind of Hard Disk Drive... Here's the answer for Jim. I work for Halted, but please don't email me directly with product inquiry please send them to sales@halted.com You'll get much better service that way. Ron (just a counterdroid at Halted) Begin forwarded message: > From: Sales > Date: Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:51:08 PM US/Pacific > To: Ron Hudson > Subject: Re: Halted Website > > We do not have the drives you are looking for. You might try Corporate > Systems Center (CSC) for these drives. > Richard Kolber. > > > At 08:23 AM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote: > > >> On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 08:42 AM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Thanks. Rather than try to dig through the website, I'll just ask. >>> >>> You guys got a couple 6-10gb ATA drives? If so, how much shipped to >>> 97883? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >> We might, we have a selection of IDE disk drives in that range. >> I will cc: my reply to sales@halted.com so you can get a better >> answer. >> >> >> >> >> --- >> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 6/1/03 > > --- From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Sat Jun 14 22:18:00 2003 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? References: <20030614170001.18054.14444.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> > How much do people think is too much restoration??? I try to get my machines running as they would have been in their prime. This includes making the common upgrades that most users would have done. Since I am restoring kits, there was wide variation in assemble quality. If I have or can find the correct parts I am just finishing the assemble 25 years later. (I am talking about adding a capacitor or a minor cut and jumper. Not increasing the memory by tacking RAM chips on top of the original ones.) I want the machine to work, even if I have to replace parts. I restored a SWTPC TV Typewriter that had been very poorly assembled in the 1970s by stripping the boards bare. (This is not the first choice procedure.) I was able to find accurate replacements for almost all of the parts. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm I also build new upgrade boards for SWTPC 6800 computers. Some of these use current production parts and some use historical parts. These can added to a system and removed without damage. (I sell copies of some of my upgrades but I make them for my own use. Which is a good thing because I will never recover my cost.) http://home.attbi.com/~swtpc6800/new_stuff.htm Sometimes a hand wired board is a accurate example of what the original owners would have used. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/QRC_Proto/32kMemoryIndex.htm These upgrades allow the base level product to be upgraded to a full featured version so you can run the vintage software. Another area of restoration is documentation. I have been scanning documents, converting them to text, then creating PDF files for the web. I correct the typographical errors in the originals and add corrections. I don't try to maintain the exact format or pagination. I do identify major changes that I make. I have been taken to task of not preserving the original documents with all of the errors! Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From jdickens at ameritech.net Sat Jun 14 22:27:00 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:23 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EEBE259.6800CC44@compsys.to> References: <3EEBCE08.4010409@internet1.net> <3EEBE259.6800CC44@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200306142225.17388.jdickens@ameritech.net> pehaps it's because the USPS is commited to using freeware (linux) on some of there systems and this is how they stay up to date.... :) or the postal sorters think they are music or cool software and pocket a few packages... On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:04 pm, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I like shipping USPS, but only on light things now. I used them for > > most things until they raised there prices. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Just to confirm the USPS experience mentioned earlier, > I have send a number of packages of CDs to the US > from Canada. I don't know exactly where they go > astray, but about 20% of them did not arrive. These > are usually packages of less than 100 grams, so they > can be sent as "thick" letters. Even the ones which > arrive usually take a few weeks - even though as > letters they are sent via AIRMAIL. > > As mentioned earlier, the difficulty of collecting on > insurance PLUS the extra cost does not seem to > be worth while. My suggestion is to increase the > funds received by about 20% to cover the extra > shipments. OR ask the person receiving the package > if they want insurance and in that case it is usually > less expensive to send the packages without any > tracking/insurance for the 20% that do not arrive. > > Usually, I am asked to send 3 Freeware CDs and > since the amount is only about $ US 12 to $ US 15, > anything but normal mail would increase the total > by more than 50% - not worth while at this level > with a missing rate of less than 20%. > > What I don't understand is why such a low percentage > of letters go astray, but a much larger percentage of > packages????????????? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jdickens at ameritech.net Sat Jun 14 22:30:01 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> References: <20030614170001.18054.14444.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <200306142228.21118.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:14 pm, Michael Holley wrote: > > How much do people think is too much restoration??? > > I try to get my machines running as they would have been in their prime. > This includes making the common upgrades that most users would have done. > Since I am restoring kits, there was wide variation in assemble quality. If > I have or can find the correct parts I am just finishing the assemble 25 > years later. (I am talking about adding a capacitor or a minor cut and > jumper. Not increasing the memory by tacking RAM chips on top of the > original ones.) I see you have higher standards than IBM, for a while after the AT was released they sold ram that was two chips piggy backed so they could get more ram on the board. > > I want the machine to work, even if I have to replace parts. I restored a > SWTPC TV Typewriter that had been very poorly assembled in the 1970s by > stripping the boards bare. (This is not the first choice procedure.) I was > able to find accurate replacements for almost all of the parts. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm > > I also build new upgrade boards for SWTPC 6800 computers. Some of these use > current production parts and some use historical parts. These can added to > a system and removed without damage. (I sell copies of some of my upgrades > but I make them for my own use. Which is a good thing because I will never > recover my cost.) > http://home.attbi.com/~swtpc6800/new_stuff.htm > > Sometimes a hand wired board is a accurate example of what the original > owners would have used. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/QRC_Proto/32kMemoryIndex.htm > > These upgrades allow the base level product to be upgraded to a full > featured version so you can run the vintage software. > > Another area of restoration is documentation. I have been scanning > documents, converting them to text, then creating PDF files for the web. I > correct the typographical errors in the originals and add corrections. I > don't try to maintain the exact format or pagination. I do identify major > changes that I make. > > I have been taken to task of not preserving the original documents with all > of the errors! > > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com/mholley From kempfj2 at rpi.edu Sat Jun 14 23:15:00 2003 From: kempfj2 at rpi.edu (Jesse Kempf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> References: <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <20030615000945.2eb50102.kempfj2@rpi.edu> On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:13:55 +1000 "peter tremewen" wrote: > How much do people think is too much restoration??? >Now obviously you aren't going to spent thousands on a system that even >in the distant future will not even generate hundreds, and obviously >you aren't going to rebuild and replace every part in the item, because >then it's a replica not an antique. Really? I have an H740 power supply sitting inside the chassis of a PDP-11/05 that wants to argue with you. As it is, half the +5V regulator has been removed, and is going to have to be replaced. It's not going to cost that much, but still, I fie you to call that a "replica". The important part isn't "Oooh! Shiny old collectible!", it's "watch me make the binkenlights do foo after I toggle this program in on the front panel." There's a PDP-11/45 that my friend and mentor essentially rebuilt. New power supply, grafted-on LTC, etc. Yeah, you can argue that replacing a power subsystem is somehow devaluing the system in some way. The system will be worthless, though, if you use a period power supply. When linear supplies fail, they can do interesting things, like toast your logic. What is the point of having a pristine, unmolested logic board of burnt-out chips? A different friend of mine recently acquired a PDP-10. The KL-10 sucks down 10KW, 2 for the CPU, 8 for the power supplies. I submit that his modifying the beast to run off of just over 2KW, with switching power supplies, is in no way degrading the worth of the machine. The same with his using modern memory to replace the damaged-beyond-repair memory cabinets. A PDP-10 is a rare enough beast that anything necessary to get it running, including hooking it up to life support, is a fair modification. Falseness or legerdemain, however, is idiotic. Buying the shell of a PDP-11 and throwing a PC in running simh and an interface layer in is pointless. Or repairing a PDP-8 by reimplementing everything in FPGAs. At that point, it ceases to be the original machine anymore. Every DEC machine prior to the Middle VAXen came with its own print set. I hold that the power supply is expendable. It's probably dangerous to the rest of the machine, and should be disposed of. Earlier machines *tend* to have simpler power systems (I have a pair of VAX 6000s should anyone want to argue the point), so it isn't completely infeasible to build your own power supply. The more important part is the processor. Except in extreme circumstances, I don't believe you should modify the processor. If the print sets no longer describe the processor logic, then you've created a new implementation of whatever the hell it was that you had. It then ceases to be the old machine, and is some sort of weird hybrid. You're pretty much on your own then if something goes wrong. -Jesse From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 14 23:47:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <3EEB95EE.5050708@charter.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, James Rice wrote: > My wife, who sells a lot more on ebay than I do, has a daily pickup > account with UPS. Actually since I tend to overpack, I have had almost > no trouble with UPS. The only damaged stuff I have shipped UPS was > packed by MBE and arrived totally crushed. The only thing I have MBE folks are a bunch of monkeys. I've never received any packages that were packed by them that didn't come crushed. They don't pack enough foam in the box, and they don't understand basic packing techniques, especially for heavy stuff. The next person that sends me something packed by MBE is going to receive the package back marked "refused". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 14 23:51:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <20030615000945.2eb50102.kempfj2@rpi.edu> Message-ID: <20030615044648.16106.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jesse Kempf wrote: > A different friend of mine recently acquired a PDP-10. The KL-10 sucks > down 10KW, 2 for the CPU, 8 for the power supplies. I submit that his > modifying the beast to run off of just over 2KW, with switching power > supplies, is in no way degrading the worth of the machine. CompuServe did this in period (well prior to 1994 when they started using Systems Concepts machines to replace DEC machines that were getting harder and harder to keep running). I would argue that this particular change is "reasonable", even from a historical perspective. I'm sure that the strictest purists would still frown on it, though. Personally, I want hardware I can *use* and am willing to make compromises to keep them so. -ethan From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 15 00:18:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <200306142225.17388.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: <3EEBCE08.4010409@internet1.net> <3EEBE259.6800CC44@compsys.to> <200306142225.17388.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <3EEC0053.4000000@internet1.net> jamesd wrote: > pehaps it's because the USPS is commited to using freeware (linux) on some of > there systems and this is how they stay up to date.... :) They use Linux? Or are you kidding? The counters always have IBM or Unisys hardware, that I've seen. I guess IBM is doing Linux now though. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jun 15 01:54:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <200306142228.21118.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: <20030614170001.18054.14444.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> <200306142228.21118.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <38257.64.169.63.74.1055659797.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "jamesd" wrote: > I see you have higher standards than IBM, for a while after the AT was > released they sold ram that was two chips piggy backed so they could get > more > ram on the board. I don't think that's a sign of poor standards at IBM. The IBM parts were specifically engineered to be stacked. They didn't just take normal DIP RAMs, stack them up, and have some tech hand solder them together. The stacked DIP packages were a replacement for the earlier Mostek dual RAM packages that had two ceramic leadless chip carriers soldered to a ceramic DIP substrate. The stacked DIPs were less expensive to manufacture because they could mold both packages and simply use longer lead frames for the top, but still fundamentally use their normal plastic DIP production flow. The only additional manufacturing step was to ultrasonically weld the leads together. (At least, I think that's how they did it. I'm not 100% certain, and I don't have any close at hand to examine.) Note that the two stacked parts were bonded out with a slightly different pinout, since the RAS and CAS strobes had to be on different pins. However, since the top DRAMs were being bonded to a special lead frame anyhow, this was not a big issue. Both the CLCC on substrate and the factory-stacked DIPs were actually quite reliable. Until ZIPs, SIPPs, and DIMMs were invented, that was the highest packaging density in common usage for RAM. From jpdavis at gorge.net Sun Jun 15 02:18:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <38257.64.169.63.74.1055659797.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <20030614170001.18054.14444.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> <200306142228.21118.jdickens@ameritech.net> <38257.64.169.63.74.1055659797.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3EEC1C8D.5060704@gorge.net> Eric Smith wrote: >"jamesd" wrote: > > >>I see you have higher standards than IBM, for a while after the AT was >>released they sold ram that was two chips piggy backed so they could get >>more >>ram on the board. >> >> > > >Both the CLCC on substrate and the factory-stacked DIPs were actually >quite reliable. Until ZIPs, SIPPs, and DIMMs were invented, that was >the highest packaging density in common usage for RAM. > > > I thought one DIP had an inverted CS, Though I might be wrong. I did the stacked thing on my atari 400, Stacked 8K chips to get 16K. But that was in 82 and the atari H/W manuals are in the garage. Jim Davis. From bdale at gag.com Sun Jun 15 05:12:00 2003 From: bdale at gag.com (Bdale Garbee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer, some basic questions: Message-ID: <87isr7psam.fsf@rover.gag.com> madyn@ix.netcom.com (Harvey White) writes: > I'll have to see if I can find data on HP-IL, might be worth rolling > an interface for it, or just stick to the IEEE-488.... The most common configuration was a 9121 or 9122 floppy disk drive attached via HP-IB aka IEEE-488. I used to be the product support engineer in the factory for the 163X family circa 1986, and probably still have a full, annotated service manual at somewhere... but I'm on the other side of the planet at the moment and won't be home for several weeks. Bdale From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 15 07:38:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> References: <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <33adf1024c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> "peter tremewen" wrote: > Opinion 2: The collector who collects with the intention of > restoration. Who might go to extreme lengths to rebuild and restore the item > he has brought, because to him the idea of keeping something that isn't > working as planed is against God and nature. That's me in a nutshell. I collect microcomputers, especially microcomputers that were designed and built by British companies - Jupiter Cantab, Sinclair, Acorn, etc. If it's British-made and it's about the size of (or smaller than) a Sinclair ZX Spectrum +2A, then I want it. My Jupiter Ace, BTW, is almost repaired. I've got the 16K RAM Pack, manual and demo tape for it. The only thing missing is the power supply. If I can't locate an original PSU, I'll build a one-amp linear regulated 9V PSU with a "crowbar" overvoltage protection circuit. Yes, I'm paranoid enough to add a crowbar... > Without getting into protracted discusion about the theology of either > collector, I would like to hear the opinions on the list about how far a > restoration should go before it starts detracting from the value of the piece. I try and replace as little as possible. If a chip has failed and I've got both a replacement chip and a replacement board, I'll fit a socket and use the chip. If I need to, I will repair damaged tracks on the board. I insist on keeping a log of every repair done to a machine. In this way, if the machine fails again in future and (shock horror) I can't identify the dead component, I've got my notes to help troubleshoot the board. > I know this is a complex issue, and obviously depends on allot of factors, but > surely there are SOME guide lines that should or could be followed. I am about > to start a complex restoration on the EDUC-8 and am hoping the experts on the > list will give me some ideas based on their experience with other systems. If you need to remove a failed DIL-packaged IC, use a craft knife or hacksaw blade to cut the pins off. Then desolder the pins and clean out the holes with a solder-sucker. NEVER use desolder wick on through-hole boards - it eats pads and tracks for breakfast. > I supose I could just clean it up and place it in a "display case" > but I tend to be a collector of more the second opinion than the first. I guess you're in the majority then. Most of the people here insist that the machine must work properly. In the words of Tony Duell: ARD> Well, my view is simple. The machine originally worked. I want to restore ARD> it to as near original condition as possible. Therefore it must work again... IOW, it left the factory in an operational state. Ergo, it must be restored to the extent that it works properly. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sun Jun 15 08:17:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? References: <043401c33266$0bb88180$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> <33adf1024c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <072f01c3333f$ac51bce0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi Phil, Thanks for the feedback. There has been about the same feedback from most collectors, Get the thing working. There is certainly a wide gap between collectors of opinion one and opinion two. Most computer collectors however seem to be closer to opinion two than opinion one. As long as there is no attempt to hide the "Repair/restoration" most people seem to think it's O.K. to do whatever is necessary to get the system going. Writing a "log" or recording all repairs seems to be a common idea. I suppose if it's recorded anyone further researching the system/part has a fair chance to see what has been done to restore it. I have to agree with you on the long term affects of "Solder Wick". I hate the stuff, having seen what it can do to boards in long service in the telecommunications industry. It's not always possible to clean the flux residues thoroughly off a board after using "Solderwick". I have a Denon SC-7000 desoldering gun that I use for all such repairs. I use "No clean" solder for all repairs, and if necessary further clean the joint with IPA. Perhaps a bit over the top, but at least I know nothing "I" have done will cause further deterioration to the system. When I have access to one I use Industrial PCB washers, and dryers after all work has been done. I have cleaned up more than one dusty crappy looking mother board or plug in card after a bit of work, and have them looking sparkly new. Peter T. > > Without getting into protracted discusion about the theology of either > > collector, I would like to hear the opinions on the list about how far a > > restoration should go before it starts detracting from the value of the piece. > I try and replace as little as possible. If a chip has failed and I've got > both a replacement chip and a replacement board, I'll fit a socket and use > the chip. If I need to, I will repair damaged tracks on the board. > I insist on keeping a log of every repair done to a machine. In this way, if > the machine fails again in future and (shock horror) I can't identify the > dead component, I've got my notes to help troubleshoot the board. > > > I know this is a complex issue, and obviously depends on allot of factors, but > > surely there are SOME guide lines that should or could be followed. I am about > > to start a complex restoration on the EDUC-8 and am hoping the experts on the > > list will give me some ideas based on their experience with other systems. > If you need to remove a failed DIL-packaged IC, use a craft knife or hacksaw > blade to cut the pins off. Then desolder the pins and clean out the holes > with a solder-sucker. NEVER use desolder wick on through-hole boards - it > eats pads and tracks for breakfast. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jun 15 09:42:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Iomega floppy tape drives + software Message-ID: <20030615143736.87242.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> hi all, I stumbled across a load of old QIC 80 tapes of mine today and got curious as to what might be on some of them. I managed to dig out the relevant tape drive from storage (it's an Iomega drive - 3.5" bay sized - with a floppy interface; slow as hell from what I remember!) I haven't used this thing for years but plugged it into a machine running NT4.0 - amazingly NT detected it and has installed low-level drivers for it, so I'm hopeful that the drive will still work. Of course I have no software for NT that'll read the format on the tapes... Problem - can't find the relevant DOS software either. I probably chucked the floppies a few years back knowing me :-) I do remember way back (actually would have been 1993 or so - just on topic for the list!) using another vendor's software under DOS though. Software was for the Jumbo series or drives that were around at the same time; different vendor but it worked with the Iomega drive too. Not that I can find a floppy with that on either :-) Anyone got one of these drives or a pointer to the software on the 'net? No problem booting the machine under DOS to access the tape drive - I doubt there's any (free) NT software around that'll read the format on those tapes. That's assuming the information on them hasn't vanished anyway of course... cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jun 15 09:44:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Seeking HP1000 interface manuals... References: <002601c3308e$15d9f240$841185d8@iancarvalho> <3EEB3F11.4010205@tiac.net> <38182.64.169.63.74.1055658663.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3EEC852D.50400@tiac.net> Hello, I've been developing 'device drivers' for some HP1000 boards to allow those devices to be run under a freeware HP operating system and programming language. There are a few boards I don't have documentation for, but would like to offer drivers for. Here is a list of HP interface manuals I'm looking for: 59310B BUS I/O - the standard instrument control HPIB bus interface board. 91200B TV INTERFACE - apparently a NTSC bit-map video display board. 12554A 16-BIT DUPLEX REGISTER - I understand and use this board, but I have one or two that need repairs. 12968 ASYNC COM INTERFACE - apparently the BACI boards little brother? 12972 8-CHANNEL ASYNC MUX - 8 RS-232 serial ports on a single I/O card. The top 3 are higher in priority than the last two. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 15 10:13:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <38257.64.169.63.74.1055659797.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > I see you have higher standards than IBM, for a while after the AT was > released they sold ram that was two chips piggy backed so they could get > more ram on the board. If you won't piggyback chips, then how would you recommend implementing lower case on a TRS-80 model 1? Or getting enough RAM in the ORIGINAL coco? (before they changed the board to support 64K/32K chips) From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Jun 15 11:16:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC4E@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > (Let's see, I have the 1350, a DEC GT40, and a Vectres > (yes, I know I don't like video games, but this thing > has a vector display and a 68A09 processor, so it's worth > getting ;-))). Of things vector display ish .. One full sized and one 'baby' Atari BattleZone with two extra board sets. (That's where Big Brother got their rumble sound effect BTW.) One Asteroids board (works ok on a Philips scope) and most of a Tail Gunner (no case, no controls and the sound board is wrecked). One day they'll all work. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From cb at mythtech.net Sun Jun 15 11:28:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Iomega floppy tape drives + software Message-ID: >Anyone got one of these drives or a pointer to the software on the 'net? No >problem booting the machine under DOS to access the tape drive - I doubt >there's any (free) NT software around that'll read the format on those tapes. >That's assuming the information on them hasn't vanished anyway of course... I have an old Iomega 250 tape drive, also uses a floppy interface. I think I still have the original software for it. I'll check Monday and let you know. If I have it, I can make disk images and post them somewhere for you (IIRC its 5.25 disks) -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 15 14:54:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> from "Michael Holley" at Jun 14, 3 08:14:00 pm Message-ID: > > How much do people think is too much restoration??? > > I try to get my machines running as they would have been in their prime. > This includes making the common upgrades that most users would have done. > Since I am restoring kits, there was wide variation in assemble quality. If > I have or can find the correct parts I am just finishing the assemble 25 > years later. (I am talking about adding a capacitor or a minor cut and > jumper. Not increasing the memory by tacking RAM chips on top of the > original ones.) It depends. I often _will_ do modifications, especially if such modifications were common when the machine was in normal use (and remeber some 'official' mods involved piggybacked ICs). But I make it clear that it _is_ a modification (e.g. if I am modifying a DEC backplane full of yellow wires, I'll do the mod in red wire). I also most certainly make use of prototyping areas on PCBs :-). I discovered, for example, there are enough spare IC locations on the PERQ OIO board to fit the QIC 02 interface (which was only ever made as a wire-wrapped prototype anyway AFAIK). Therefore my OIO board is possibly the only ether-can-tape (ethernet, Canon laser printer, QIC02 tape) around... > I also build new upgrade boards for SWTPC 6800 computers. Some of these use > current production parts and some use historical parts. These can added to a > system and removed without damage. (I sell copies of some of my upgrades but > I make them for my own use. Which is a good thing because I will never > recover my cost.) I often build add-on boards/modules for classic computers. I like to make them in a way that was at least _possible_ when the machine was in normal use (so no SMD parts in a 1970s minicomputer, no FPGAs, etc). But sometimes I break those rules. If it's a plug-in card it can be removed later anyway... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 15 14:55:22 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <200306142228.21118.jdickens@ameritech.net> from "jamesd" at Jun 14, 3 10:28:21 pm Message-ID: > I see you have higher standards than IBM, for a while after the AT was > released they sold ram that was two chips piggy backed so they could get more > ram on the board. Hmm.. The oriignal PC/AT motherboard did have piggybacked RAMs, but it wasn't an IBM kludge. Those were special RAM chips (the pinouts were strange, with pin 1 actually used for something and the CAS/ signal from each chip brought out separately (I think it was CAS/)), and I don't think they were soldered together (looks more like ultrasonic welding to me). I'd assumed these were a 'standard' 128K RAM module, something like a Mostek part I once saw (18 pin DIL) which was a ceramic module with 2 chips soldered on top. Incidentally, I have seen piggybacked sockets in the catalogues. 16 pin ones with all pins commomed except 4 and 15 (RAS/ and CAS/ for normal DRAMs IIRC) and 28 pin ones with all pins commoned except 20 (CS/ for a JEDEC SRAM or EPROM). Interesting idea... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 15 14:55:50 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <20030615000945.2eb50102.kempfj2@rpi.edu> from "Jesse Kempf" at Jun 15, 3 00:09:45 am Message-ID: > Really? I have an H740 power supply sitting inside the chassis of a > PDP-11/05 that wants to argue with you. As it is, half the +5V regulator > has been removed, and is going to have to be replaced. It's not going to > cost that much, but still, I fie you to call that a "replica". The I see no problem in rebuilding a PSU, but I'd want to keep to the original design if at all possible... > important part isn't "Oooh! Shiny old collectible!", it's "watch me make > the binkenlights do foo after I toggle this program in on the front > panel." There's a PDP-11/45 that my friend and mentor essentially rebuilt. > New power supply, grafted-on LTC, etc. Yeah, you can argue that replacing > a power subsystem is somehow devaluing the system in some way. The system Yes, actually I would claim that. The PSU _is_ part of the computer. > will be worthless, though, if you use a period power supply. When linear Why? My 11/45 (early version ,too) is still running on the original PSUs. All I've had to do is rebuild one -15V brick... > supplies fail, they can do interesting things , like toast your logic. FWIW the 11/45 PSUs (and AFAIK all PDP11 PSUs) have switch-mode regulators, at least for the +5 and -15V lines. YEs, they can fail, and yes, in theory they can put overvoltage onto the logic, but DEC put crowbars everywhere. I've had mainns-side SMPSUs fail too, and put nasty HV spikes on the output (an open-circuit or high ESR output capacitor will do that!), and I've had regulation circuits fail in modern SMPSUs... Perhaps it's just me, but I've had a lot more problems with relatively modern 'commodity' PSUs that with the units in 1970s minicomputers. And at least the latter come with printsets so I have a hope of fixing them. > What is the point of having a pristine, unmolested logic board of > burnt-out chips? A different friend of mine recently acquired a PDP-10 That's why you alwys check PSUs on dummy load after installing the machine or workign on the PSU. And why you check the crowbar (NOT by triggering it! -- with a dummy load, put a lamp in series with the SCR anode and then twaek up the PSU output to ensure it will trip -- assuming the PSU can be turned up that high). In fact I'd probably replace the crowbar components with new, tested, parts in any really rare machine. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 15 14:56:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <33adf1024c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 15, 3 01:31:14 pm Message-ID: > My Jupiter Ace, BTW, is almost repaired. I've got the 16K RAM Pack, manual > and demo tape for it. The only thing missing is the power supply. If I can't > locate an original PSU, I'll build a one-amp linear regulated 9V PSU with a > "crowbar" overvoltage protection circuit. Yes, I'm paranoid enough to add a > crowbar... Fairly pointless. The only thing that 9V supply feeds is a 7085 regulator. If that fails, then the 9V will cook the chips anyway. The original PSU is unregulated (just transformer, bridge rectifier, smoothing cap). There's little point in regulating it -- the 7805 will stand up to 35V on the input IIRC (it may well go into thermal shutdown if you give it excessive voltage, but it shouldn't short). No sensible fault in a simple unregulated linear PSU will make the output go up by a factor of 4 or so. If you want to add a crowbar, put one set to trip at a little over 5V across the 5V line on the Ace's PCB... > I try and replace as little as possible. If a chip has failed and I've got > both a replacement chip and a replacement board, I'll fit a socket and use > the chip. If I need to, I will repair damaged tracks on the board. Me too. And I also regard sockets as a sensible modification. But I only ever used turned-pin (machined pin) sockets now. Yes, they're expensive, but so is my time in tracing bad connections. > with a solder-sucker. NEVER use desolder wick on through-hole boards - it > eats pads and tracks for breakfast. The only use I've found to solderwick is to clean up the pads on an SMD-based board when replacing a component there. I never use it on through-hole boards. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 15 14:56:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <072f01c3333f$ac51bce0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> from "peter tremewen" at Jun 15, 3 11:11:46 pm Message-ID: > Hi Phil, > > Thanks for the feedback. There has been about the same feedback from > most collectors, Get the thing working. There is certainly a wide gap > between collectors of opinion one and opinion two. Most computer collectors > however seem to be closer to opinion two than opinion one. As long as there > is no attempt to hide the "Repair/restoration" most people seem to think > it's O.K. to do whatever is necessary to get the system going. Writing a Thsi is of course entirely up to you, as it's your machine. But it really saddens me to see a classic computer that could run again but which is never given the chance. Incidentally, I was reading a book on clock repair (another of my interests...) which makes much the same comment -- many clock enthusiasts are saddened by non-working clocks that could be got to run again. > "log" or recording all repairs seems to be a common idea. I suppose if it's > recorded anyone further researching the system/part has a fair chance to see > what has been done to restore it. Yes. There are several purposes in keeping the log. The first is so that any future collector/restorer knows what's been done, what is not original, and so on. The second is so that _you_ know what's been done when you have to fix the machine next time, and you find it no longer agrees with the service manual. If the service manual is loose sheets in a ring binder or some other form of binding where you can add pages, then I think it's reasonable to add pages documenting the modicifications (or to copy a page, then make ammendments to it, and keep _both_ the original and the updated on in the binder). -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jun 15 15:08:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Iomega floppy tape drives + software Message-ID: <20030615200340.91364.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Message: 38 Subject: Re: Iomega floppy tape drives + software Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:23:30 -0400 From: chris To: "Classic Computers" Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Anyone got one of these drives or a pointer to the software on the 'net? > I have an old Iomega 250 tape drive, also uses a floppy interface. I > think I still have the original software for it. problem solved as it happens - but thanks anyway! Turns out I'd been clever and stuck an image of the software disk onto CD - I just found it by chance whilst hunting some other stuff out. (the disadvantage of list digest mode - I had to wait until I got the digest with my post in before I could reply, as I couldn't remember the subject line :-) cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jun 15 15:15:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Iomega floppy tape drives + software In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:23:30 EDT." Message-ID: <200306151935.UAA01670@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, chris said: > >Anyone got one of these drives or a pointer to the software on the 'net? No > >problem booting the machine under DOS to access the tape drive - I doubt > >there's any (free) NT software around that'll read the format on those tapes. > >That's assuming the information on them hasn't vanished anyway of course... > > I have an old Iomega 250 tape drive, also uses a floppy interface. I > think I still have the original software for it. I'll check Monday and > let you know. If I have it, I can make disk images and post them > somewhere for you (IIRC its 5.25 disks) Somebody gave me an old 486 with an Iomega 250 fitted. I think I got the software from Iomegas site. I can't tell you the name of it because the 486 runs headless and I can't see what's on it...but DITDOSTO.EXE rings a faint bell. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jun 15 17:12:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Magnavox Odyssey In-Reply-To: <200306131545.LAA00211@wordstock.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bryan Pope > Sent: 13 June 2003 16:46 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Magnavox Odyssey > > > And thusly Witchy spake: > > > > Pics are up at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk in the Magnavox > section :) > > > > Hello, > > I just tried to view the pictures... I am using Lynx at work so I > tried accessing the "text" version of your site off the pages that says > my browser does not support frames and received a 404 error. Yeah, I forgot about that link. Because I was working at the time I didn't have enough time or energy to keep the main version and the text version in sync. Then I started redesigning it to lose the frameset and never finished that either so it's in limbo :) > My OS is QNX 4.25 and the picture viewer does not like your jpeg's. It > give an error "Unsupported SOF marker type 0xc2". (not that this may > mean much) Hmm. It appears that's the default for saving web pages on Photoshop 7, so the answer is yes I do but I didn't know! I'll resave them as non-progressive so check back tomorrow. How does it look otherwise under QNX? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From martin.dummermuth at ngc.com Sun Jun 15 17:12:51 2003 From: martin.dummermuth at ngc.com (Dummermuth, Martin E.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: paper for HP 9876A Message-ID: <93C68699AEE2D511A55500A0C9D6E5B20195E880@xcgmd010.md.essd.northgrum.com> Kelly, I noticed your posting on the classiccmp.org page. Have you identified a source for thermal paper for the HP 9876A printer? -Martin From elmar.schmitz at smail.emt.fh-rhein-sieg.de Sun Jun 15 17:13:20 2003 From: elmar.schmitz at smail.emt.fh-rhein-sieg.de (Elmar Schmitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals Message-ID: <000601c331e0$0a8f1390$1e0aa8c0@santaclaus> Hi, I just got 2 IBM 3101-Terminals. The display unit and the documentation is missing. The only written stuff I have is the "Customer Problem Analysis and Resolution Guide" which stuck under the Keyboard. Can anyone send me a mail with documentation? Fortunately I have lots of spare Monitors, but I need the pin outs of the video connector to solder a new cable. Does anyone has an schematics for the devices? elmar.b.schmitz@batronix.com I want to plug the terminal in my Linux-Server. I pulled an additional RS232 along the cat5 cables for administrative work. It is a bad idea to change network settings over telnet if the devices won't restart. And why have I to use a PC with 200W power consumption if I just want to type in some Stuff? And an ASCII - Terminal is cool, too. Thank you, Elmar From jedun at pandora.be Sun Jun 15 17:13:49 2003 From: jedun at pandora.be (Jef Van Dun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: MemoryWriter 620 Message-ID: <002601c331f0$b46ed3e0$2e955251@vdjt4o7sv01ei0> Hello, I am looking for a manuel (pdf?) Can You help me? Thanks Jef From sieler at allegro.com Sun Jun 15 17:14:18 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: reading HP disk drives with HP LIF Util and HP-IB card in a PC? In-Reply-To: <3EE830CD.8080300@topinform.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030610215037.372f8a9e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EE9E9D4.11851.15279F65@localhost> > which kind of LIF-Utilities? - for the PC? Where are these utilitiels > available? Some are available, free, at Agilent's web site: http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/old/ The lifarc file contains most of the utilties, IIRC. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From gene at ehrich.com Sun Jun 15 17:14:48 2003 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: CAMERICA - what is it? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030614121934.01fc8848@popmail.voicenet.com> I have a small box that came with a box of odds and ends and I would like to know what it is. It is gray 3-1/2 x 3 x 1 box with a recessed 25 pin female connection point on one end. The only markings on the box is CAMERICA, Patent Pending, Made in China. Does anybody have any idea what it might be? From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 15 18:49:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> References: <20030614170001.18054.14444.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <001001c332ec$2afb9fb0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: > > How much do people think is too much restoration??? > >I try to get my machines running as they would have been in their prime. >This includes making the common upgrades that most users would have done. Me, I like "Hotrodding" them, it's fun to see just how far past the norm you can take a system :^) My PDP-11/73 is a killer system, and probably one of the better outfitted ones around (eventually I want to replace the CPU with either a /93 or a nice fast Mentec CPU). My Amiga 3000 is pretty decked out as well, though I've not felt I could justify the Accelerator upgrade that I would like to do for it. Another system I'd love to "Hotrod" would be one of my Apple ][gs's, not that I mess with Apple 2's anymore. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jun 15 18:57:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC Message-ID: <20030615235255.42578.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> OK, apologies first as this has been done to death at various times in the past, and now I come to need the info I haven't got the willpower to piece it together from archives of several thousand posts :-) I'm trying to organise and back up all my data (primarily on my main PC system) - but I'd also like to make images of the disks for some of my classic platforms whilst I'm at it. I don't have any kind of fancy floppy controller, just whatever comes in a standard PC (I do have PCs running Windows 2000, Windows ME, Windows NT, Linux and DOS so I'm not too fussy about OS choice) I have various 5.25" floppy drives lying around, although I *assume* the 1.2MB drive will electrically read all of my 5.25" disks (whether the controller can understand the raw data coming off the disks is another matter of course) I've got disks for the following machines which I'd like to initially back up: Acorn BBC / BBC Master / Cambridge Workstation (I believe these are all the same low-level format even if filesystem structure is different) DEC Rainbow (B model, if there's a difference between that and the A) Apple (Apple ][, //e and /// - again I believe low-level structure is the same for all 3?) So, in an ideal world, what I'd like to be able to do is use some piece of software on the PC and suck an entire image off each disk, archive it onto tape / CD / whatever, then at some point in the future be able to use the same software on a PC to rebuild from those disk images such that they'll work in the machine they were intended to. I'm not even going to think about the Amiga and Mac 3.5" disks for now; I know the PC controller won't handle those - and all the stuff on cassette tape can wait too! :-) (the couple of Macs I do have might be a better bet for this job, but unfortunately none of them are networked and so I couldn't get the data off them to a place where I can store it easily) cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jun 15 20:38:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Reading various format =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030615235255.42578.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030615235255.42578.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030616013022.30992.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> I think there is some sort of program that actually copies floppy disks verbatum, right down to the bit patterns encountered, a true mirror image. I know the Amiga software can be archived to CD-ROM, then manipulated by any PC that handles the ROM filesystem. Still, with the GCC encoding of Apple and Commodore disks, you might have a problem. Basic language programs can be easily saved as a text file, but ML might be a trick getting back onto a readable disk without a native CPU/System doing the work. Good luck, Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jmd5 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 15 20:40:01 2003 From: jmd5 at earthlink.net (jmd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Sony SMC-70 computers for sale Message-ID: <1055727873.14637.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> hi.... I have 3 Sony SMC-70 computers I need to find good homes for. 1 is working and the other two boot but do not read the floppy completely. Maybe some cleaning or adjustment of the floppy drives would help. 2 sets of CP/M for Sony. They do differ a bit. I thought I had some applications but so far have not found them. I have what I believe to be all the original documentation (4 loose leaf note books in cardboard holders): CP/M Operating System Parts 1-3 Sony SMC-70 Hardware Reference Manual. 1- small paperback Sony SMC-70 Micro Computer Operating Instructions Addons include: 1-Sony SMC-7086 Supercharger (runs 16 bit apps I believe) but I do not think the software is on the 2 floppy disks I have. There is a Manual for this too. 1-SMI-7050 cache disk unit 1-XEBEC-70 (built similar to disk cache unit but not sure what it is) 1-SMI-7016 floppy disk control unit 1- unlabeled part that is similar in build to the 3 above. I do have a Sony PVM 1271Q Trinitron Color Video Monitor with video cable. You will however need to adapt a 9 pin connector to a 25 pin connector (i used a serial cable and broke off one pin to allow use on the computer side. I do get a very red screen so one would need to check the pinouts for configuration) Also, a Sony 1311CR with a cable that may well be adaptable for use. If I find anything else as I clean I will include it. Not sure what a value might be. I will entertain all offers for a week or so and then if there is no interest here put them on eBay. I am thinking it would be best to keep the working computer and addons together. If someone were interested in the complete system I would glady donate the other two to a museum or someone who wants to restore them. Jeff Duncan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 15 20:50:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030615235255.42578.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 16, 3 00:52:55 am Message-ID: > I've got disks for the following machines which I'd like to initially back up: > > Acorn BBC / BBC Master / Cambridge Workstation (I believe these are all the > same low-level format even if filesystem structure is different) Original BBC micros used a 8271 disk controller chip which is single-density (FM) only. Many PC disk controllers can't handle that. Later, Acorn used the 1770 (which can do double desinty (MFM) _as well_), but still used single density recording as the standard. > DEC Rainbow (B model, if there's a difference between that and the A) That one is possible, there are shareware MS-DOS programs for this (probably different for Rainbow CP/M and MS-DOS disks). The Rainbow disks (RX50 drive) are are 80 cylinder single sided, so you need a 1.2M drive. > > Apple (Apple ][, //e and /// - again I believe low-level structure is the > same for all 3?) Apple used GCR encoding on these machines, which can't be handled by _any_ standard PC disk controller. -tony From luc at e2t.be Mon Jun 16 02:19:00 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Systems In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720D33A8@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD60E@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Hi, I ve been working at Wang in a previous life. Should be (or was) an OIS specialist... I might have all schematics - software and so on somewhere. If you need them give al yell back and I 'll look for it Luc Vande Velde Belgium -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Jim Donoghue Verzonden: donderdag 12 juni 2003 21:38 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org; dtillson@xmission.com Onderwerp: Re: Wang Computer Systems Do you have model numbers for the OIS systems? I may be interested. Are any of the manuals/disks for the OIS? On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 14:59, David Tillson wrote: > I have a number of Wang computers, printers, circuit boards, manuals, > software, disks, training manuals etc. that are taking up needed > space. The computers include a portable with a built in printer; a desktop > system with a color monitor, and several OIS systems. The printers include > 2 daisy wheels, a dot matrix and 2 laser systems (HP's with a Wang > label). Available for the cost of shipping from Salt Lake, Utah. > > David Tillson > dtillson@xmission.com > -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From jim at smithy.com Mon Jun 16 07:18:01 2003 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Systems/schematics In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD60E@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> References: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD60E@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <1055765237.26304.4.camel@server.smithy.com> I've been trying to find schematics for some time now.. the only thing I have managed to find so far are some VS-85 schematics. I have started an OIS web site, you can see it at www.cass.net/~jdonoghu/wang.html If you can find them, I'd be interested in them! On Mon, 2003-06-16 at 03:14, Luc Vande Velde wrote: > Hi, I ve been working at Wang in a previous life. Should be (or was) an OIS > specialist... > I might have all schematics - software and so on somewhere. > If you need them give al yell back and I 'll look for it > > Luc Vande Velde > Belgium > -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 16 09:09:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... Message-ID: They are now called "The UPS Store" here in Chicago (at least). We thought that they were a UPS branch, so my wife recently went there to ship a rolled tapestry weaving (3' by 9" diameter, well boxed, but in a used box) that they made her rebox. The guy behind the counter was also a real jerk about it. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: Rant about UPS... MBE folks are a bunch of monkeys. I've never received any packages that were packed by them that didn't come crushed. They don't pack enough foam in the box, and they don't understand basic packing techniques, especially for heavy stuff. The next person that sends me something packed by MBE is going to receive the package back marked "refused". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 09:12:01 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Michigan Finds References: <200306142010.h5EKATlG018501@spies.com> Message-ID: Did my monthly review of the University of Michigan property disposition, and also attended the Monroe county hamfest. Property Disposition: Not much, they had an interesting HP Visualize workstation that they probably wanted hundreds of dollars for, they are getting more overpriced these days. But outside where they usually keep stacks of furniture destined to the scrap metal recycler's truck, they had a few DEC racks and a "Stardent" box that looked like an Ardent computer. The DEC's were populated half with non-DEC network junk, and half with what appeared to be RA-81/82 hard drives. I'll post pics when I get a chance. Monroe Hamfest: Picked up two 9GB hard drives for use in the Linux server, which will be the netboot point for a bunch of my old workstations and minis. There was a guy there selling hard disks and RAID arrays for $1/gig :) Picked up PDP/11 assembly programming by Addison Westley, a book on TI/99 assembler, and a TI/99 use and programming book by TAB, all for $1. The only other really interesting thing there, was a guy with a box of boards he was selling for their gold content. Many big VME looking boards from a company called ARTEC, as I recall. Looked like memory boards. But at the bottom of the box were some mini cards with "Flip Chip" printed on them, from an old PDP if I'm right? Didn't pick any up, they were all in really bad shape. Poor computer... From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jun 16 09:23:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306161018.37434.jcwren@jcwren.com> It's all very dependent on the store. I have one near me that I use, since the nearest Fedex and UPS counters are miles away. I have a good relationship with the people there, and they understand how to pack most items. Generally, I'll give a specification how I want it packed, and they'll do exactly as I ask. They know to put tape over lables in case they get wet (preventing running), triple taping bottoms, double taping edges, etc. I imagine like any large chain, you get stores where the people are complete boobs. Packing requires a little common and sense, and in some cases, a minor understanding of physics. When you pay $7/hr, you get what you pay for. And that ain't a rocket scientist. If you have a store near you that has decent people, you can also start them on a re-education program. And since they're now owned by UPS, I think UPS is going to start making them take a 2 day course in packing and shipping. The owner of the one near me said the UPS representative had been talking the idea over with her. --John On Monday 16 June 2003 10:04 am, Feldman, Robert wrote: > They are now called "The UPS Store" here in Chicago (at least). We thought > that they were a UPS branch, so my wife recently went there to ship a > rolled tapestry weaving (3' by 9" diameter, well boxed, but in a used box) > that they made her rebox. The guy behind the counter was also a real jerk > about it. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:38 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: Rant about UPS... > > > > MBE folks are a bunch of monkeys. I've never received any packages that > were packed by them that didn't come crushed. They don't pack enough foam > in the box, and they don't understand basic packing techniques, especially > for heavy stuff. > > The next person that sends me something packed by MBE is going to receive > the package back marked "refused". From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 16 09:24:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? Message-ID: I had my Otrona 8:16 upgraded from 256KB to 640KB RAM, so it now has stacked chips. However, that was a mod done at the time (actually, Otrona Advanced Systems had gone under by then, but it was a 3rd party (Brown Enterprises) mod that was current with the machine. What Tony was objecting to is a modern collector hot-rodding an old box by increasing the RAM (or processor, or ...) in a way that would not have been done contemporaneously with the machine. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Davis [mailto:jpdavis@gorge.net] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:13 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Restoration: how far should it go?? Eric Smith wrote: >"jamesd" wrote: > > >>I see you have higher standards than IBM, for a while after the AT was >>released they sold ram that was two chips piggy backed so they could get >>more >>ram on the board. >> >> > > >Both the CLCC on substrate and the factory-stacked DIPs were actually >quite reliable. Until ZIPs, SIPPs, and DIMMs were invented, that was >the highest packaging density in common usage for RAM. > > > I thought one DIP had an inverted CS, Though I might be wrong. I did the stacked thing on my atari 400, Stacked 8K chips to get 16K. But that was in 82 and the atari H/W manuals are in the garage. Jim Davis. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jun 16 10:17:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: IBM plastic base Message-ID: I came across this plastic base thing for an IBM something. It looks like a clip on PC base, maybe to stand a desktop case upright, or maybe just a larger foot to a tower unit. Its IBM part number 91F7591, FRU 92F0000. On the underside is a picture of what looks like maybe a PS/2 desktop computer. You can see a picture of this thing at . (Its not the greatest pic, the Apple QuickTake 100 doesn't do such a hot job of taking closeup pics). A: does anyone know what it is for B: does anyone want it as I am likely to toss it in the trash. -chris From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Jun 16 10:42:00 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <200306161018.37434.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20030616153720.60365.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > It's all very dependent on the store. But they used a canned program to tell them how much bubble wrap/peanuts and what size box to use, don't they? When I went there to have a item packaged the clerk typed in the size of the item and it printed out how much bubble wrap to use, what size box, which in turn was used to compute the price and keep track of their inventory. I don't think they have the option to add more bubble wrap or change the box dimensions, unless they fudge the size of the item. From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 10:45:01 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks for the info on programming the 1350. I picked up another one of these HP vector displays, a type 1347 (I think), at a surplus store. It sounds pretty similar to the 1350 except that the display tube is built in to the device. I think that HP used these displays in quite a few of their spectrum analyser instruments to generate the fancy displays that are required for frequency domain analysis. The 1347 was available in either free-standing cased form or as an open cage that could be integreted into third party instruments. 3 BNC connections on the rear panel allow you to drive an external XYZ display if you need to. I'll have a try drawing some pictures using the programming information that has been posted and let you all know if the commands are the same. Cheers Peter _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 16 10:45:15 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: IBM plastic base In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EEDE504.2030706@internet1.net> chris wrote: > A: does anyone know what it is for Looks like the stand for the IBM PS/2 model 77. I Paid money for mine..... they are really nice to have. > > B: does anyone want it as I am likely to toss it in the trash. I don't need it, but if your gonna toss it I'd take it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 10:57:00 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: HP 9000 R332 computer Message-ID: Hi Joe, I was having a quick play with an R332 9000 machine at the weekend and noticed a couple of other 'interesting things' about it. 1. Further to my mail about the extra rear panel jumper leads required to make this things work. It appears that the FDD mounted in the front panel of the computer is linked to its own controller card that is in turn linked to a rear panel HPIB connector. In order for the computer to see the FDD, a short HPIB connector must be used to link the HPIB connector on the rear panel of the computer (vertically orientated) and the HPIB connector on the plug in CPU card. 2. On close inspection of the FDD controller card, it appears that there are two disk connectors of different lengths (one is the FDD controller). The disk connector is open - could this be a connector for a HDD? If so, it doesn't look like an MFM connector - it looks much more like a regular IDE connector. I've seen references to an internal HDD option for the R332 - is it possible that this drive is an IDE type? Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Jun 16 11:00:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <20030616153720.60365.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200306161018.37434.jcwren@jcwren.com> <20030616153720.60365.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37583.130.76.32.21.1055778923.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> UPS Overpacks. Why? Overpacking costs more money. I have shipped via UPS and they always want to put items in a much larger box size than is necessary. I now ship FedEx which not only is more reliable and flexible, is cheaper too. > --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: >> It's all very dependent on the store. > > But they used a canned program to tell them how much > bubble wrap/peanuts and what size box to use, don't > they? > > When I went there to have a item packaged the clerk > typed in the size of the item and it printed out how > much bubble wrap to use, what size box, which in turn > was used to compute the price and keep track of their > inventory. > > I don't think they have the option to add more bubble > wrap or change the box dimensions, unless they fudge > the size of the item. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jun 16 11:08:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:24 2005 Subject: IBM plastic base Message-ID: >Looks like the stand for the IBM PS/2 model 77. I Paid money for >mine..... they are really nice to have. Are they worth something? Hard to find? Is this something I should try to ebay? -chris From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Jun 16 11:10:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: SparcStatiion 10 Message-ID: <3EEDE9B5.4090906@charter.net> I picked up a SS10 yesterday. It was missing it's power supply but had a 24bit framebuffer a 10/100 S-Bus nic, MBus processor module, some ram and a hard drive. Seemed like a restorable pizza box and since I don't have a 10 I bought it. I got it home and the Sun p/n guide tells me that a SS10 uses the same power supply as a SS5. I have a couple of spares for my 5's so I got one out. There is no way it's going to fit in the chassis. The SS10 chassis has a beveled cast ridge where the power supply should slide into. Is this a real SS10 or was the label switched? Was there two different versions of the 10 chassis or power supply? I'd like to trace it all out and get it working but for a $10 investment, I can salvage out the parts and still feel that I got a good deal. James From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 16 11:13:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... In-Reply-To: <200306161018.37434.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > It's all very dependent on the store. I have one near me that I use, since > the nearest Fedex and UPS counters are miles away. I have a good > relationship with the people there, and they understand how to pack most > items. Generally, I'll give a specification how I want it packed, and > they'll do exactly as I ask. They know to put tape over lables in case they > get wet (preventing running), triple taping bottoms, double taping edges, > etc. Mailboxes Etc. was bought out by UPS and all their stores are being renamed The UPS Store. These are the same people who couldn't pack boxes before, so I don't think a name change will automatically give them new packaging skills. > If you have a store near you that has decent people, you can also > start them on a re-education program. And since they're now owned by > UPS, I think UPS is going to start making them take a 2 day course in > packing and shipping. The owner of the one near me said the UPS > representative had been talking the idea over with her. Maybe they can give a course to the UPS employees on how not to drop a box. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From djenner at earthlink.net Mon Jun 16 11:15:00 2003 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Hilevel Tech Cable Interfaces Message-ID: <3EEDEBEA.1DB33503@earthlink.net> I recently received a bunch of Hilevel Technology Inc. cable interfaces that you use between a development system and a target system. The interfaces include: DTI 16A AI 201 RI 202 (x 2) RI 202A RI 204 AI 370 DT 370 If someone can use these, let me know, and I'll send them to you for the cost of shipping/postage (probably $5 - $10). Thanks, Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Jun 16 11:33:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: SS10 Message-ID: <3EEDEF22.1030005@charter.net> Never mind I found out what I needed to know. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 16 11:36:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: SparcStatiion 10 In-Reply-To: <3EEDE9B5.4090906@charter.net> References: <3EEDE9B5.4090906@charter.net> Message-ID: >I picked up a SS10 yesterday. It was missing it's power supply but had a 24bit framebuffer a 10/100 S-Bus nic, MBus processor module, some ram and a hard drive. Seemed like a restorable pizza box and since I don't have a 10 I bought it. I got it home and the Sun p/n guide tells me that a SS10 uses the same power supply as a SS5. I have a couple of spares for my 5's so I got one out. There is no way it's going to fit in the chassis. The SS10 chassis has a beveled cast ridge where the power supply should slide into. Is this a real SS10 or was the label switched? Was there two different versions of the 10 chassis or power supply? I suspect that what it should have said is the SS20 has the same powersupply, but I'm honestly not 100% sure on that as I've not made sure. >I'd like to trace it all out and get it working but for a $10 investment, I can salvage out the parts and still feel that I got a good deal. $10 for the 24-bit framebuffer and 10/100 NIC sounds like a great deal to me! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Jun 16 11:55:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Looking for... (phaser 350 info) Message-ID: <20030616094819.S74194@agora.rdrop.com> Trying to finish repairing a Tek (ne: Xerox) Phaser 350 printer, and while I've got most of the major gremlins beaten down, there is still one fault that I can't get sorted. So... I was wondering if someone out there might have a copy of the interactive diagnostics package (350diags.exe) and (hopefully) the pinout of the 'service port'. It is supposed to be RS-232 but comes out on a 5-pin inline connector... (figures) Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 12:24:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030616013022.30992.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: Always start by being clear about whether you want to duplicate a diskette of the other ("alien") format read/write an image of the alien diskette read/write files from the alien diskette Use files from one program in another program > I think there is some sort of program that actually copies floppy disks > verbatum, right down to the bit patterns encountered, a true mirror image. Teledisk may be what you want (No longer available?). But it will NOT read Amiga, Apple, Northstar, single density, 128 byte sectors, etc. ON A PC, using the PC hardware, a PC CAN NOT READ ANYTHING other than "Western Digital" style MFM sectors on a PC, using PC hardware, disunirregardless of what software you try. But,... if you are willing to CHANGE the PC hardware AND write software to accompany the changed hardware,... then anything is possible. > I know the Amiga software can be archived to CD-ROM, then manipulated by any IFF you write the CD on the Amiga. The PC hardware can not read Amiga diskettes, which are MFM, but do NOT have the type of sector headers that the PC hardware needs.. That, of course, is not strictly true. There was one fellow who claimed that by interrupting it in mid read, that the PC could be tricked into reading Amiga! But AFAIK, he never got it to work reliably. Kinda like when Gallagher makes French fries using his sledge-o-matic - "I swear, you gotta hit that sucker just right." > PC that handles the ROM filesystem. Still, with the GCC encoding of Apple > and Commodore disks, you might have a problem. Yes. The PC hardware CAN NOT handle GCR. The PC hardware can ONLY handle MFM sectors with "Western Digital Style" sector headers. > Basic language programs can be easily saved as a text file, but ML might be > a trick getting back onto a readable disk without a native CPU/System doing > the work. File content is irrelevant! Files is files. All that you are after is the right sequence of bytes. IT DOESN'T MATTER what the content is of the file. OTOH, if you want to move a file from one disk format to another, then you need software that not only reads the sectors/tracks of the "alien" diskette, but also implements enough of its file system to be able to parse the directory and understand it well enough to find the right sectors for the file that you want. That will give you an exact byte for byte copy of the file. The CONTENT of the file is another problem. Text files are no problem. But, many versions of BASIC "tokenize" the program for storage (replace every "keyword" with an abbreviation), and the tokens are not even the same from one version to another. But, as you said, you can override that and save it as text. For example, if you want to move a program from MICROS~1 BASIC version 4.51 on a CP/M machine to MICROS~1 BASIC version 5.0 on the SAME machine, you need to load the 0program into 4.51, save it as text, and load THAT into the new one. If you DO succeed in getting a VisiCalc spreadsheet from an Apple disk onto a PC disk, it will load just fine into the IBM PC version of VisiCalc. But do you think that the current version of EXCESS^H^HEL will handle it? If you copy a Wordstar file from a CP/M diskette to a PC, it will load into the PC version of Wordstar; but will the _current_ version of MICROS~1 WEIRD read files from the PC version of Wordstar? "I can build a radio that receives broadcasts from France. It will get all of the sounds EXACTLY right. But it doesn't TRANSLATE!" There have been some programs for altering the content of a file for transferring documents from one brand of word processor to another. There have been some programs for transferring files from various MFM diskettes to and from PC, including: 22DISK Flagstaff (No longer available) Hypercross (TRS-80 only) (No longer available) Media Master (No longer available) Oswego Systems (HP only) (No longer available) Uniform (No longer available) XenoCopy-PC (Available only by personally contacting the author) Each handles a fixed finite group of formats. Most have provision for adding in additional formats yourself, but almost nobody ever succeeds in doing so, and after fielding too many "which numbers do I put in to make my PC read Apple diskettes" the authors of the programs stop providing tech support and HIDE that feature (in XenoCopy, try holding down Alt and/or Ctrl when pressing the function keys, try format #0, etc.) The Amiga has significantly more versatile hardware than the PC. Central Coast Software made some stuff running on the Amiga for handling a lot of formats (No longer available) On the PC, it is possible to CHANGE the hardware into something more capable, usually by installing another circuit board between the disk controller and the floppy drive. Apple Turnover (changed to "Turnover" at Apple's "request") (comes with software for Apple ][ DOS, PRODOS, Apple ][ CP/M, Apple ][ Pascal, etc) (No longer available) Central Point Option Board (get the "Deluxe") (has software for Mac 400K, 800K) (No longer available) Catweasel (there has been MUCH confusion between what it "CAN DO" (when somebody writes software) v what it "WILL DO")) Tim Mann is the real expert on it, has written great stuff for it, and knows which software exits (it IS available!) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 16 12:27:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: IBM plastic base In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EEDFCD2.9080701@internet1.net> chris wrote: >>Looks like the stand for the IBM PS/2 model 77. I Paid money for >>mine..... they are really nice to have. > > > Are they worth something? Hard to find? Is this something I should try to > ebay? I know of an IBM PS/2 reseller than has new ones (I think they are new), for about 20 or 25 dollars. I think I paid 10 for mine, but that person wasn't a reseller..... he just had too much stuff :-) They're around, but you don't exactly trip over them, like Apple //e's. You can try Ebay. I've noticed a lot fewer Microchannel and PS/2 sruff on ther lately. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jun 16 12:28:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: OT: Rant about UPS... Message-ID: <17e.1c54f139.2c1f572b@aol.com> Remember that UPS stands for United Package Smashers Ive heard that they require enough packing to survive a 6 foot drop which is what they probably do to every package just to make a point. I avoid using them. I've always had good results from the USPS. In a message dated 6/16/2003 10:21:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jcwren@jcwren.com writes: << It's all very dependent on the store. I have one near me that I use, since the nearest Fedex and UPS counters are miles away. I have a good relationship with the people there, and they understand how to pack most items. Generally, I'll give a specification how I want it packed, and they'll do exactly as I ask. They know to put tape over lables in case they get wet (preventing running), triple taping bottoms, double taping edges, etc. >> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jun 16 12:32:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: IBM plastic base Message-ID: <9b.3a31bdc4.2c1f5802@aol.com> In a message dated 6/16/2003 11:15:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cb@mythtech.net writes: << I came across this plastic base thing for an IBM something. It looks like a clip on PC base, maybe to stand a desktop case upright, or maybe just a larger foot to a tower unit. Its IBM part number 91F7591, FRU 92F0000. >> yup, that's for PS/2s. I can use it if no one else needs it. From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 16 12:45:00 2003 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Modern monitors for HP 9000 300 (for Eric Josephson) Message-ID: Hi Eric Josephson, Thanks for the info on monitors and the kind offer of the HP 98789A! Can you cantact me off list about this - my e-mail is peterbrown10@hotmail.com Cheers Peter Brown _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jun 16 12:51:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: SS10 In-Reply-To: <3EEDEF22.1030005@charter.net> Message-ID: <000501c3342f$45f5f4c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Never mind I found out what I needed to know. Some of have an SS10 and SS20 in storage and may be interested in being told ... please :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jun 16 13:04:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: SparcStatiion 10 In-Reply-To: References: <3EEDE9B5.4090906@charter.net> <3EEDE9B5.4090906@charter.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030616110522.060b1ad0@mail.zipcon.net> At 09:31 AM 6/16/03 -0700, you wrote: >I suspect that what it should have said is the SS20 has the same >powersupply, but I'm honestly not 100% sure on that as I've not made sure. Sparc 5 and 20 supplies are identical, sparc 10 powersupplies are different beasties alltogether From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Jun 16 13:32:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: SparcStatiion 10 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030616110522.060b1ad0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <3EEDE9B5.4090906@charter.net> <3EEDE9B5.4090906@charter.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030616110522.060b1ad0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3EEE0B1B.3080004@charter.net> Geoff Reed wrote: > At 09:31 AM 6/16/03 -0700, you wrote: > >> I suspect that what it should have said is the SS20 has the same >> powersupply, but I'm honestly not 100% sure on that as I've not made >> sure. > > > Sparc 5 and 20 supplies are identical, sparc 10 powersupplies are > different beasties alltogether > I was going by the Sun part number database on sunstuff.org. I had a couple of SS5 power supplies and the part number listing said that that particular p/n fit SS5 and SS10. I think it was probably a typo. I found a SS10 supply locally. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 13:45:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030615235255.42578.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, [iso-8859-1] Jules Richardson wrote: > I'm not even going to think about the Amiga and Mac 3.5" disks for now; I know > the PC controller won't handle those - and all the stuff on cassette tape can > wait too! :-) > . . . > Acorn BBC / BBC Master / Cambridge Workstation (I believe these are all the > same low-level format even if filesystem structure is different) > Apple (Apple ][, //e and /// - again I believe low-level structure is the > same for all 3?) The PC controller won't handle those either. > (the couple of Macs I do have might be a better bet for this job, but No, it is a lot easier to modify the disk controller hardware on a PC than on a Mac. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jun 16 13:51:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: References: <20030615235255.42578.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EEE2DAF.26579.F293A18D@localhost> > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, [iso-8859-1] Jules Richardson wrote: > > I'm not even going to think about the Amiga and Mac 3.5" disks for now; I know > > the PC controller won't handle those - and all the stuff on cassette tape can > > wait too! :-) > > . . . > > Acorn BBC / BBC Master / Cambridge Workstation (I believe these are all the > > same low-level format even if filesystem structure is different) > > Apple (Apple ][, //e and /// - again I believe low-level structure is the > > same for all 3?) > The PC controller won't handle those either. Except you use a Turnover in a real PC/XT. > > (the couple of Macs I do have might be a better bet for this job, but > No, it is a lot easier to modify the disk controller hardware on a PC than > on a Mac. Depends. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 14:18:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <3EEE2DAF.26579.F293A18D@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Acorn BBC / BBC Master / Cambridge Workstation (I believe these are all the > > > same low-level format even if filesystem structure is different) > > > Apple (Apple ][, //e and /// - again I believe low-level structure is the > > > same for all 3?) > > The PC controller won't handle those either. > Except you use a Turnover in a real PC/XT. The PC controller won't handle them. Additonal hardware (Turnover, Option, Catweasel) will. I won't go into my opinion of the reliability of the Turnover. (Nor the mediocre software) > > > (the couple of Macs I do have might be a better bet for this job, but > > No, it is a lot easier to modify the disk controller hardware on a PC than > > on a Mac. > Depends. Turnover and Option board are ISA. Can the PCI version of the Catweasel be used in a Mac? Is there any comparable unit available for the Mac to read diskettes at a flux transition level? The PC hardware is so crude and simple that even with MY soldering skills, it is possible to do mods such as for single density. The Mac hardware is much more integrated, and is full of surface mout chips, etc. that I'm not skilled enough to work with. From kth at srv.net Mon Jun 16 15:11:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: Message-ID: <3EEE2D29.5040204@srv.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > >>I think there is some sort of program that actually copies floppy disks >>verbatum, right down to the bit patterns encountered, a true mirror image. >> >> > >Teledisk may be what you want (No longer available?). But it will NOT >read Amiga, Apple, Northstar, single density, 128 byte sectors, etc. > > As far as I can tell, teledisk stores the images in a "compressed" form which is only known to teledisk. It is not useable to any of the emulators I know about. If there is a way to convert such a file into to a raw image, I'd really like to know about it. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jun 16 15:54:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <3EEE2D29.5040204@srv.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > As far as I can tell, teledisk stores the images in a "compressed" form > which is only known to teledisk. It is not useable to any of the emulators > I know about. If there is a way to convert such a file into to a raw > image, > I'd really like to know about it. Will Kranz [w_kranz@mcttelecom.com] did a fair deal of work on decoding that format. He got many things to actually unpack to a usable (raw image) format. --fred From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jun 16 16:06:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: References: <3EEE2DAF.26579.F293A18D@localhost> Message-ID: <3EEE4D74.21067.F30FBCCB@localhost> > > > > Acorn BBC / BBC Master / Cambridge Workstation (I believe these are all the > > > > same low-level format even if filesystem structure is different) > > > > Apple (Apple ][, //e and /// - again I believe low-level structure is the > > > > same for all 3?) > > > The PC controller won't handle those either. > > Except you use a Turnover in a real PC/XT. > The PC controller won't handle them. > Additonal hardware (Turnover, Option, Catweasel) will. > I won't go into my opinion of the reliability of the Turnover. (Nor the > mediocre software) :)) We had this already. I was satisfied when I got my hands on a turnover, back when the A2 was still my main machine and I had to do some (turbo Pascal) programming for clients using IBM-PCs. > > > > (the couple of Macs I do have might be a better bet for this job, but > > > No, it is a lot easier to modify the disk controller hardware on a PC than > > > on a Mac. > > Depends. > Turnover and Option board are ISA. > Can the PCI version of the Catweasel be used in a Mac? > Is there any comparable unit available for the Mac to read diskettes at a > flux transition level? I was rather thinking about either using a 3 1/2 drive on an A2 to write GSOS disks (readable with older Macs), or better, using an LC with the IIe card, and a 5 1/4 drive connected. From there on it's a childs play to copy any A2/3 disk to the Mac side, and from there onto the net or at least PC 3 1/2s. > The PC hardware is so crude and simple that even with MY soldering skills, > it is possible to do mods such as for single density. The Mac hardware is > much more integrated, and is full of surface mout chips, etc. that I'm not > skilled enough to work with. only the newer ones. I don't know if he said anything about new Macs. And, beside that, actual PCs are as 'solderning friendly' as any Mac. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jun 16 16:07:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: SMS 1000 Chassis documentation wanted, Bounty offered References: <019801c33130$0ea017f0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <005e01c3344a$96130900$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Johnson" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 5:14 PM Subject: SMS 1000 Chassis documentation wanted, Bounty offered > If anyone has a documentation set for the SMS 1000 PDP-11 chassis, please > contact me offline if you are willing to loan or sell me a copy of it for a > "reasonable" price. I am not looking for an item to be put under glass in a > museum - I need working documentation. > > I bought one of these chassis's a while back (less docs) and can't use it > without some assistance. I don't even know what "style" of QBUS it has in it! > The chassis was "supposed" to come with the manuals, but... it didn't. It is > too heavy to ship it back to the seller; the total shipping cost both ways > cost about the same at the item did. > > I'll pay $20 US for information to the FIRST person (by email received time & > date) to point me to a source for this documentation, that leads to my having > a copy in my hands. If that person also is an owner of the documentation > willing to provide me with a copy, I will pay them the $20 plus a reasonable > copying and shipping fee. > > There are exclusions, to my bounty offer but will not affect anyone but the > original seller of the SMS 1000. > > Stuart Johnson BOUNTY ENDED Thanks to Dave Jenner, I now have the manual for this chassis! If there is interest, perhaps I can scan it later and make it available online; or you can buy it new from Keyways for $250.00. Stuart Johnson From dtillson at xmission.com Mon Jun 16 16:44:00 2003 From: dtillson at xmission.com (David Tillson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Systems In-Reply-To: <1055446742.19359.1.camel@server.smithy.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030612124215.01133520@mail.xmission.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20030612124215.01133520@mail.xmission.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030616151508.011ccbb8@mail.xmission.com> I have a Wang OIS-60 with one monitor. The weight of the CPU is in excess of 70#s. In addition there are two daisy wheel printers, one dot matrix printer and two laser printers that work with the OIS system. Multiple copies of the operating manuals, training material, and disks for the OIS are available. I do not have any schematics although I could probably locate some if necessary. However everything is working so no repair other than blowing out the dust and possible reseating of the circuit boars should be required after shipping. David Tillson Salt Lake City, UT At 03:38 PM 6/12/2003 -0400, Jim Donoghue wrote: >Do you have model numbers for the OIS systems? I may be interested. Are >any of the manuals/disks for the OIS? > >On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 14:59, David Tillson wrote: > > I have a number of Wang computers, printers, circuit boards, manuals, > > software, disks, training manuals etc. that are taking up needed > > space. The computers include a portable with a built in printer; a > desktop > > system with a color monitor, and several OIS systems. The printers > include > > 2 daisy wheels, a dot matrix and 2 laser systems (HP's with a Wang > > label). Available for the cost of shipping from Salt Lake, Utah. > > > > David Tillson > > dtillson@xmission.com > > >-- >Jim Donoghue >Smithy Co. >(734) 913-6700 From dtillson at xmission.com Mon Jun 16 16:45:03 2003 From: dtillson at xmission.com (David Tillson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Systems post on CCMP. In-Reply-To: <20030612232349.DA2A32FD02@www.fastmail.fm> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030612124215.01133520@mail.xmission.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20030612124215.01133520@mail.xmission.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030616152816.03060ba8@mail.xmission.com> Yes I have both a Wang Professional Computer and a Wang WLTC. The Wang PC has both a B&W and Color Monitor. The Color Monitor only functions with Wang programs. The B&W monitor functions with both Wang and DOS programs. It has been a long time since I have run the PC system but as I recall the version of DOS it carries is 2.X. There are two 5 1/4 disk drives and lots of disks. The WLTC has a built in thermal printer. Not sure what version of DOS it carries but as I remember it is the same as the PC. It has an external 5 1/4 floppy drive. The WLTC also comes with a canvas carrying case. David Tillson Salt Lake City, UT At 05:23 PM 6/12/2003 -0600, David Vohs wrote: >Saw your post on CCMP. Do you have a Wang Professional Computer or a WLTC >(Wang Lap Top Computer) in the lot? I'm intrested in acquiring either one >of these machines. > >Keep me posted on this. > > > I have a number of Wang computers, printers, circuit boards, manuals, > > software, disks, training manuals etc. that are taking up needed > > space. The computers include a portable with a built in printer; a > > desktop > > system with a color monitor, and several OIS systems. The printers > > include > > 2 daisy wheels, a dot matrix and 2 laser systems (HP's with a Wang > > label). Available for the cost of shipping from Salt Lake, Utah. > > > > David Tillson > > dtillson@xmission.com > > >-- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Jun 16 16:55:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: 'Garage' sale updates Message-ID: <20030616145021.A83276@agora.rdrop.com> New ones now online -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 16 17:03:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at Jun 16, 3 08:19:30 am Message-ID: > I had my Otrona 8:16 upgraded from 256KB to 640KB RAM, so it now has > stacked chips. However, that was a mod done at the time (actually, > Otrona Advanced Systems had gone under by then, but it was a 3rd party > (Brown Enterprises) mod that was current with the machine. What Tony was > objecting to is a modern collector hot-rodding an old box by increasing > the RAM (or processor, or ...) in a way that would not have been done > contemporaneously with the machine. Related to that is what you should do if you find a modified machine -- do you keep the modification, or return it to factory spec? There are plenty of arguments either way (e.g. 'The modification is part of the history of the machine and should be kept' .vs. 'The machine should be preserved as it was originally'). Personally, I am undecided on this. Sometimes I keep the modification (particularly if it's useful and doesn't adversely affect the operation and repairabilty of the machine), sometimes I remove it. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 16 17:03:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= floppies on In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 3 10:19:58 am Message-ID: > Always start by being clear about whether you want to > duplicate a diskette of the other ("alien") format > read/write an image of the alien diskette In general, if a PC (say) is capable of duplicating a disk, then it's also capablie of recoridng and rewriting a disk image (this just involves saving the data that would have been transfered from the source to destination disks in a normal PC file of some suitable format). So this is a simple-ish matter of programming > read/write files from the alien diskette This, again, can be done in software if the disk is physically readable, but it involves and understanding of the filesystem involved... > Use files from one program in another program Again software, but geting documentation on application files can be 'interesting'... > ON A PC, using the PC hardware, a PC CAN NOT READ ANYTHING other than > "Western Digital" style MFM sectors on a PC, using PC hardware, Even then you might have problems. There is an index timing problem that means the Intel disk controllers can't read some disks formatted by real Western Digital chips (if the first sector header starts too soon after the index pulse, the Intel controller won't see it). Some clone disk controllers mighy have got this right, some certainly haven't! > The CONTENT of the file is another problem. Text files are no > problem. But, many versions of BASIC "tokenize" the program for storage > (replace every "keyword" with an abbreviation), and the tokens are not > even the same from one version to another. But, as you said, you can They're not even the same on related machines. The UK Dragon and the TRS-80 CoCo are much the same machine (essentially the same hardware, microsoft BASIC in ROM), but the tokens are assigned in a different order. You can load a BASIC progeam saved in ASCII on either machine, but not one stored in the (default) tokenised format. > There have been some programs for transferring files from various MFM > diskettes to and from PC, including: > 22DISK > Flagstaff (No longer available) > Hypercross (TRS-80 only) (No longer available) > Media Master (No longer available) > Oswego Systems (HP only) (No longer available) > Uniform (No longer available) > XenoCopy-PC (Available only by personally contacting the author) > > Each handles a fixed finite group of formats. Most have provision for > adding in additional formats yourself, but almost nobody ever succeeds in > doing so, and after fielding too many "which numbers do I put in to make I have mananged to add a new CP/M format (FTS-88 double density 8") to 22disk, I think. Is it _possible_ to add formats to Hypercross? I have the original disks and manaals for the Model 4 version, and it doesn't say it is. If it is, what's the trick? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 16 17:03:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 3 12:13:25 pm Message-ID: > The PC hardware is so crude and simple that even with MY soldering skills, > it is possible to do mods such as for single density. The Mac hardware is > much more integrated, and is full of surface mout chips, etc. that I'm not > skilled enough to work with. Depends on the PC and the Mac :-). Modern PCs seem to be stuffed full of SMD (and worse still BGA) chips. The disk controller is probably part of some large ASIC on the motherboard. Conversetly, the Mac+ has no SMD chips other than in the floppy drive AFAIK. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 17:06:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <3EEE4D74.21067.F30FBCCB@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > I won't go into my opinion of the reliability of the Turnover. (Nor the > > mediocre software) > :)) We had this already. I was satisfied when I got my hands on > a turnover, back when the A2 was still my main machine and I had > to do some (turbo Pascal) programming for clients using IBM-PCs. For obvious reasons (check the copyright on the title page!), I'm not very impressed with the Turnover. It was NOT my finest work. > I was rather thinking about either using a 3 1/2 drive on an A2 > to write GSOS disks (readable with older Macs), or better, using > an LC with the IIe card, and a 5 1/4 drive connected. From there > on it's a childs play to copy any A2/3 disk to the Mac side, and > from there onto the net or at least PC 3 1/2s. The problem is/was more than just Apple ][. There are a LOT of other formats that can be done with PC hardware, and there are c9ommercially availabel hardware mods for many others. > > The PC hardware is so crude and simple that even with MY soldering skills, > > it is possible to do mods such as for single density. The Mac hardware is > > much more integrated, and is full of surface mout chips, etc. that I'm not > > skilled enough to work with. > only the newer ones. I don't know if he said anything about new > Macs. And, beside that, actual PCs are as 'solderning friendly' > as any Mac. Which Macs have the floppy disk controller on a separate/replaceable board? From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 17:56:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= floppies on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Always start by being clear about whether you want to > > duplicate a diskette of the other ("alien") format > > read/write an image of the alien diskette On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > In general, if a PC (say) is capable of duplicating a disk, then it's > also capablie of recoridng and rewriting a disk image (this just involves > saving the data that would have been transfered from the source to > destination disks in a normal PC file of some suitable format). So this > is a simple-ish matter of programming And without that simple-ish matter of programming, you end up wasting way too much of your time fielding tech support questions from those who don't have the software. Without the additional software, they turn into completely different tasks. > > read/write files from the alien diskette > This, again, can be done in software if the disk is physically readable, > but it involves and understanding of the filesystem involved... > > Use files from one program in another program > Again software, but geting documentation on application files can be > 'interesting'... Yes, the difference IS software. I'm sure that I'm not the only person to be stuck with tech support for users who do not have the system software that they need. > > ON A PC, using the PC hardware, a PC CAN NOT READ ANYTHING other than > > "Western Digital" style MFM sectors on a PC, using PC hardware, > Even then you might have problems. There is an index timing problem that The statement that you "CAN NOT READ ANYTHING other than" is not invalidated by the existence of ADDITIONAL problems. > means the Intel disk controllers can't read some disks formatted by real > Western Digital chips (if the first sector header starts too soon after > the index pulse, the Intel controller won't see it). Some clone disk > controllers mighy have got this right, some certainly haven't! In addition, there are some other minor complications, such as additonal code needed to read 128 byte sectors, disks (such as Kaypro DS) that have invalid content in sector headers, etc. > > Each handles a fixed finite group of formats. Most have provision for > > adding in additional formats yourself, but almost nobody ever succeeds in > > doing so, and after fielding too many "which numbers do I put in to make > I have mananged to add a new CP/M format (FTS-88 double density 8") to > 22disk, I think. It CAN be done. I had already assumed that Tony dould do it. _Most_ end users of such programs do not have ("almost nobody") the knowledge needed to do so. And when that option wasn't hidden in XenoCopy, we got constant phone calls demanding help in using that feature to add formats that we had already told people were IMPOSSIBLE with their hardware. ("which numbers do I put in to do Apple?") What was worse, was that in the few cases where people WERE successful, they wouldn't give us the specs (nor sample disk) to be able to add the format to the program for other people. We had no interest in helping people add a format that they wouldn't share. The capability stayed in, but became "undocumented". > Is it _possible_ to add formats to Hypercross? I have the original disks > and manaals for the Model 4 version, and it doesn't say it is. If it is, > what's the trick? Probably not. ("_Most_ have provision") I haven't heard from Mike Gingel in almost ten years; is anybody still in touch with him? In some programs that don't have deliberate provision for adding formats, it may still be possible to decipher the data storage and step on the numbers in the file to change a format to something else. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 16 18:11:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= floppies on In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 3 03:51:40 pm Message-ID: > > In general, if a PC (say) is capable of duplicating a disk, then it's > > also capablie of recoridng and rewriting a disk image (this just involves > > saving the data that would have been transfered from the source to > > destination disks in a normal PC file of some suitable format). So this > > is a simple-ish matter of programming > And without that simple-ish matter of programming, you end up wasting way Absolutley. FWIW, I _have_ written software related to this -- the 'LIF Utilities for Linux'. This is an on-going project (so don't moan that the feature you need isn't there, and it's GPLed. It's designed to handle the HP9114 disks only, so as to transfer programs and data between older HP handheld calculators and linux PCs. I didn't write a program to directly copy a disk (for one thing, my PC only has 1 3.5" floppy drive) -- I wrote programs to transfer between a physical disk and an image file in both directions. That seemed to cover it (just put the image file in /tmp if you don't need to keep it :-)) > > > ON A PC, using the PC hardware, a PC CAN NOT READ ANYTHING other than > > > "Western Digital" style MFM sectors on a PC, using PC hardware, > > Even then you might have problems. There is an index timing problem that > > The statement that you "CAN NOT READ ANYTHING other than" is not > invalidated by the existence of ADDITIONAL problems. Of course. I was just pointing out that you might still have problems, and that a PC can't read all disks with 'western digital headers'. In particular, I couldn't read disks formatted on my TRS-80 Model 4 on this PC. I could format a disk on the PC with the same type of format and then read/write it correctly on both machines. > > > means the Intel disk controllers can't read some disks formatted by real > > Western Digital chips (if the first sector header starts too soon after > > the index pulse, the Intel controller won't see it). Some clone disk > > controllers mighy have got this right, some certainly haven't! > > In addition, there are some other minor complications, such as additonal > code needed to read 128 byte sectors, disks (such as Kaypro DS) that have > invalid content in sector headers, etc. Oh, indeed. Linux makes this a little easier (at least in the (old) version I'm using) in that there's an ioctl() call that allows you to do just about anything the hardware is capable of (some of the parameters set up the DMA controller to transfer the appropriate number of bytes, and the _system_ takes care of allocating a buffer not crossing a page boundary, etc, other paramemeters are sent to the disk controller chip without modification). I have had to do it under MS-DOS (the PERQdisk program), which was 'interesting' -- just about every other comment relates to some misfeature of the PC :-) > > > > Each handles a fixed finite group of formats. Most have provision for > > > adding in additional formats yourself, but almost nobody ever succeeds in > > > doing so, and after fielding too many "which numbers do I put in to make > > I have mananged to add a new CP/M format (FTS-88 double density 8") to > > 22disk, I think. > > It CAN be done. I had already assumed that Tony dould do it. _Most_ end Why me? I am not a programmer. In fact I doubt I'm a hacker [1] either. [1] In the original sense. I am certainly not a cracker. > > Is it _possible_ to add formats to Hypercross? I have the original disks > > and manaals for the Model 4 version, and it doesn't say it is. If it is, > > what's the trick? > > Probably not. ("_Most_ have provision") I haven't heard from Mike Gingel Sure, I understand 'most' :-). I was just asking because I have that program, and if it is possible to add more formats I'd like to be able to do it. If not, never mind. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 16 18:13:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 3 03:01:40 pm Message-ID: > Which Macs have the floppy disk controller on a separate/replaceable > board? Well, actually, any Mac with expansion slots can take an FDC card. I have one of the Apple manuals on designing peripheral cards for macs, and the example is an MFM-compatible floppy controller (!). Apart from that, what's the problem with soldering on the mainboard? Some of us do it all the time. And don't most modern PCs have the disk controller on the motherboard now? I've certainly seen PC motherboards with a 34 pin header for the floppy drives. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 18:14:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The PC hardware is so crude and simple that even with MY soldering skills, > > it is possible to do mods such as for single density. The Mac hardware is > > much more integrated, and is full of surface mout chips, etc. that I'm not > > skilled enough to work with. On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Depends on the PC and the Mac :-). It sure does. Comparing NEW PCs with OLD Macs is ludicrous. And it also is an issue of how competent the individual is. I do NOT have the skill to solder surface mount, nor to figure out how to modify the disk operations of the Mac. By the time that the Mac originally came out (1984?), I had had the schematics and source code of the BIOS of the PC for several years (1981). And by that time (1984), I had several extra FDC boards for the PC that I experimented with, including doing 8", and had already implemented more than 100 5.25" MFM formats in XenoCopy. I don't doubt that the Mac was a superb platform for hacking for SOME people. For me, with MY limitations of ability, the PC (OF COMPARABLE VINTAGE) was a lot more open and easier to work with. > Modern PCs seem to be stuffed full of > SMD (and worse still BGA) chips. The disk controller is probably part of > some large ASIC on the motherboard. > Conversetly, the Mac+ has no SMD chips other than in the floppy drive AFAIK. The PC AT THE TIME OF THE Mac+ ALSO had no SMD. They both became less solder friendly at the same time. But the Mac, from the beginning, was better integrated than the comparable vintage PC, which made the PC easier for ME. For ME, the PC and the Apple ][ were comparable to work on, and the Mac was closed to me. But for somebody else, or with different hacking goals, it could be completely different. From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 16 18:40:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC Message-ID: <200306162338.h5GNcUpd007651@spies.com> > Can the PCI version of the Catweasel be used in a Mac? I'll be working on this in the next couple of weeks, starting from Tim's code. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 18:47:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Which Macs have the floppy disk controller on a separate/replaceable > > board? On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Well, actually, any Mac with expansion slots can take an FDC card. I > have one of the Apple manuals on designing peripheral cards for macs, > and the example is an MFM-compatible floppy controller (!). OK, You talked me into getting a "new" Mac! When did they start having expansion slots? That manual sounds VERY interesting. At your convenience could you look up the exact title, etc. so that I can start looking for one? When I was dealing with Macs, Apple was NOT enthusiastic about third party hardware! I am not very in touch with "current" computer systems. > Apart from that, what's the problem with soldering on the mainboard? My lack of skill. Did I mention that my first few attempts at PC mods were less than successful? > Some > of us do it all the time. And don't most modern PCs have the disk > controller on the motherboard now? I've certainly seen PC motherboards > with a 34 pin header for the floppy drives. That is a LOT less fun than a separate board for each function. Do most people consider the Mac more fun than the ][ ? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 16 19:09:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030617000421.61691.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Depends on the PC and the Mac :-). > > It sure does. Comparing NEW PCs with OLD Macs is ludicrous. Indeed - and it cuts both ways ;-) > And it also is an issue of how competent the individual is. I do NOT > have the skill to solder surface mount, nor to figure out how to modify > the disk operations of the Mac. Those are two different skills. Soldering surface mount is a matter of vision, manual dexterity and practice. The correct tools help, but I can prove that you can do a lot with just a temp-controlled iron and a steady hand. Modifying the Mac disk controller is an entirely different kettle of fish - like the Amiga, unlike old ISA PCs, it's a custom affair. The oldest Macs use the "IWM" chip the Integrated Woz Machine. Single- sided Mac drives varied the drive speed to achieve several recording densities; later ones varied the bit clock under software control (similar to what the Commodore 2040/3040/1541/2031/etc. drives did). Between that and GCR vs MFM, there are major obstacles for getting different platforms to read each other's disks. The one that is the most universal is the Amiga - it uses part of the sound chip for a 4096-bit shift register to clock an entire track in or out. The hardware handles flux reversals - the *software* cobbles up the MFM formatting, intersector gap, headers, data and all. In practice, the graphics chips perform the binary<->MFM translation, but that's just because it can - it's doable purely in software, albeit more slowly. The biggest problem with Amiga FDC design is that it's limited to DD data rates - its high-density floppies spin at 50% and are somewhat scarce (AFAIK, the drive itself senses the HD hole and spins the disc at the right rate; it's not a software thing). Unless you start from scratch, I doubt there's any one platform that has a chance of reading "all" floppy formats - that's why they made the Catweasel. It's a shame that the software never lived up to the promise of the hardware. -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 16 19:16:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= floppies on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Absolutley. FWIW, I _have_ written software related to this -- the 'LIF > Utilities for Linux'. This is an on-going project (so don't moan that the > feature you need isn't there, and it's GPLed. It's designed to handle the > HP9114 disks only, so as to transfer programs and data between older HP > handheld calculators and linux PCs. As you've seen, it is a lot easier, and MUCH more fun, to write such software than it is to deal with a lawyer who wants to open his water damaged Northstar Wordstar files in Windoze Word, can't understand why HE should have to do more than one step, and also wants to know if he can return the software for a refund once he has finished his conversion project. > I didn't write a program to directly copy a disk (for one thing, my PC > only has 1 3.5" floppy drive) -- I wrote programs to transfer between a > physical disk and an image file in both directions. That seemed to cover > it (just put the image file in /tmp if you don't need to keep it :-)) A very reasonable approach. It handles archiving, copying, and with some software to parse the image, could handle data conversion. > Of course. I was just pointing out that you might still have problems, > and that a PC can't read all disks with 'western digital headers'. In > particular, I couldn't read disks formatted on my TRS-80 Model 4 on this > PC. I could format a disk on the PC with the same type of format and then > read/write it correctly on both machines. Can you read them if you block the index signal? > > It CAN be done. I had already assumed that Tony dould do it. _Most_ end > Why me? I am not a programmer. In fact I doubt I'm a hacker [1] either. > [1] In the original sense. I am certainly not a cracker. because 1) you are a hacker 2) you understand the hardware that it needs to deal with 3) you're willing to put the effort into experimenting From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 16 19:27:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030617002305.10578.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > OK, > You talked me into getting a "new" Mac! > When did they start having expansion slots? The MacSE was the first to have an expansion slot that I know of. I have a graphics card and a couple of 10Base2 network cards (one from Asante, IIRC; one from Novell). It's called a "PDS" slot ("P"rocessor "D"irect "S"lot) - completely custom to whatever particular Mac it's in (with a few exceptions, like the MacIIsi and MacSE/30 sharing a slot and backplate design). *Standard* slots didn't come along until the MacII line - those are called "NuBus". Those phased out in the PowerPC days and have been supplanted with PCI slots in modern PPC Macs (for those models that have slots at all). The Mac approach is something like the Amiga approach - give little boxes a proprietary processor-specific slot (Amiga 1000, Amiga 500, Amiga 1200), and give the high-ticket boxes something standard (Amiga 2000, Amiga 3000, Amiga 4000...) The difference is that you can electrically fit an Amiga 1000 peripheral on an Amiga 500, but not a MacSE card into even something as close to an SE/30 (68000 vs 68030, so incompatible PDS slots). There are several flavors of Mac PDS slots, but one flavor of NuBus and PCI, AFAIK. > When I was dealing with Macs, Apple was NOT enthusiastic about third > party hardware! I doubt they have ever been more than tolerant. There are a number of well-known 3rd-party peripheral makers, and a couple of former clone makers (Jobs hated the idea of people cutting in to his hardware business, but he wasn't always in charge). Asante, Novell and Radius are the ones that come to mind immediately, but there are others. > I am not very in touch with "current" computer systems. There are probably three or four major types of Macs: enclosed models with mono screens (128K, 512K, Plus, SE, SE/30...), low-end slab-style desktops (MacLC-II, MacLC-III...), higher-end desktop and small server models with 68020 or better, and Nubus slots (MacII, IIci, IIsi, IIvx, IIfx, Quadra 700, Quadra 800, Quadra 950...), early PowerPC boxes with NuBus slots and frequently AV hardware (PowerMac 6100, 6200, 7100, 8100...) and "modern" PowerPC designs (iMac, G3, G4...) There are dozens of models that I have not mentioned, but they more-or- less resemble one of the ones that I have mentioned. > > Apart from that, what's the problem with soldering on the mainboard? > My lack of skill. Did I mention that my first few attempts at PC mods > were less than successful? Well... as I said in another message, that's a different issue that can be frequently be addressed with a bit of practice (or delegation ;-) Just this week, I was modding a spare SPARC5 (removing the upper SCA connector so I could fit a 1.6" drive inside the main case). I used a combination of a soldering iron, solder sucker, and heat gun. > > Some of us do it all the time. Indeed, but I've modded more Amigas than PCs... mostly it's not worth the hassle, in my experience, but there are times with less common hardware that you don't have many alternatives (like the time I installed a removable battery on a Mostek NVRAM from a SPARC1/1+/2. I should take pictures of it. It still works. > > And don't most modern PCs have the disk > > controller on the motherboard now? I've certainly seen PC motherboards > > with a 34 pin header for the floppy drives. For a long time now. Many modern PCs don't even have ISA slots any more - my high-end desktop machine has a 3-year-old motherboard in it with 5 PCI slots, and no ISA (Asus A7V). I still keep an old P-233 box around as well as a 486DX-2/66 for more down-to-earth hardware hacking. I tend to leave the top end as-is (until it's not so top-end anymore ;-) > That is a LOT less fun than a separate board for each function. > Do most people consider the Mac more fun than the ][ ? Fun in what sense? To mod the hardware? Probably not. To attach to a modern network and run a TCP/IP stack? Almost certainly. Starting with the Plus, most Macs come with SCSI (there are a very few exceptions); many come with network ports or are easy to refit with either LocalTalk or Ethernet. Most ][s were not so equipped, but for enough money, they could be so enhanced. -ethan From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Jun 16 19:48:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030617002305.10578.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 16, 3 05:23:05 pm" Message-ID: <200306170055.RAA29274@floodgap.com> > There are probably three or four major types of Macs: enclosed models > with mono screens (128K, 512K, Plus, SE, SE/30...), low-end slab-style > desktops (MacLC-II, MacLC-III...), higher-end desktop and small server > models with 68020 or better, and Nubus slots (MacII, IIci, IIsi, IIvx, > IIfx, Quadra 700, Quadra 800, Quadra 950...), early PowerPC boxes with > NuBus slots and frequently AV hardware (PowerMac 6100, 6200, 7100, > 8100...) and "modern" PowerPC designs (iMac, G3, G4...) > > There are dozens of models that I have not mentioned, but they more-or- > less resemble one of the ones that I have mentioned. The "beige PCI Power Macs" occupy the middle ground between the modern New World Power Mac and the last of the NuBus Power Macs. These include systems such as the 4400, 63-6400, 72-73-75-7600, 82-85-8600 and 95-9600 models. The original beige G3 is sort of an oddball, neither fish nor fowl based on its internals. Alas, all of these are not yet on-topic, sigh. :-P The NetBSD/macppc models page has some interesting information on the differences between the major Power Macs. http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/models.html -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. -- Abbie Hoffman - From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 16 21:11:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 3 04:42:42 pm Message-ID: > > > Which Macs have the floppy disk controller on a separate/replaceable > > > board? > On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Well, actually, any Mac with expansion slots can take an FDC card. I > > have one of the Apple manuals on designing peripheral cards for macs, > > and the example is an MFM-compatible floppy controller (!). > > OK, > You talked me into getting a "new" Mac! Watch out, I think some of the newer macs may be lacking slots again :-( > When did they start having expansion slots? The Mac II has Nubus slots (well, close to Nubus -- Apple had to change a few things because they're Apple...) and the SE has the PDS (Processor Direct Slot, basically the 68k bus) > That manual sounds VERY interesting. At your convenience could you look > up the exact title, etc. so that I can start looking for one? Sure... > > When I was dealing with Macs, Apple was NOT enthusiastic about third party > hardware! > > I am not very in touch with "current" computer systems. Nor am I, but the Macs I mentions are actually on-topic for this list... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 16 21:16:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Reading various format =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= floppies on In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 3 05:11:24 pm Message-ID: > As you've seen, it is a lot easier, and MUCH more fun, to write such > software than it is to deal with a lawyer who wants to open his water Oh, indeed. Fortunately I don't have to support people like that.... I just have to suppor my own crazy idesa > > I didn't write a program to directly copy a disk (for one thing, my PC > > only has 1 3.5" floppy drive) -- I wrote programs to transfer between a > > physical disk and an image file in both directions. That seemed to cover > > it (just put the image file in /tmp if you don't need to keep it :-)) > > A very reasonable approach. It handles archiving, copying, and with some > software to parse the image, could handle data conversion. YEs, I also wrote programs to produce a directory listing (either of an image file or a physical disk), to extract a file from an image or physical disk (the reverse -- to put a new file onto an image/disk is something I must do soon) and to translate some of the HP files into more normal ones (like LIF1 text files into normal text files). > > > > Of course. I was just pointing out that you might still have problems, > > and that a PC can't read all disks with 'western digital headers'. In > > particular, I couldn't read disks formatted on my TRS-80 Model 4 on this > > PC. I could format a disk on the PC with the same type of format and then > > read/write it correctly on both machines. > > Can you read them if you block the index signal? I think so, but I found it easier just to format the disk on the PC... > > > > > It CAN be done. I had already assumed that Tony dould do it. _Most_ end > > Why me? I am not a programmer. In fact I doubt I'm a hacker [1] either. > > [1] In the original sense. I am certainly not a cracker. > because > 1) you are a hacker AHving read some ofEric Raymond's (I think) pages I am convinced I am not... > 2) you understand the hardware that it needs to deal with True. I also have a fair idea of how a CP/M directory is put together, what the various options in the 22disk program mean, etc. > 3) you're willing to put the effort into experimenting It's often the only way... -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 16 23:06:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > I had my Otrona 8:16 upgraded from 256KB to 640KB RAM, so it now has > > stacked chips. However, that was a mod done at the time (actually, > > Otrona Advanced Systems had gone under by then, but it was a 3rd party > > (Brown Enterprises) mod that was current with the machine. What Tony was > > objecting to is a modern collector hot-rodding an old box by increasing > > the RAM (or processor, or ...) in a way that would not have been done > > contemporaneously with the machine. > > Related to that is what you should do if you find a modified machine -- > do you keep the modification, or return it to factory spec? There are > plenty of arguments either way (e.g. 'The modification is part of the > history of the machine and should be kept' .vs. 'The machine should be > preserved as it was originally'). Personally, I am undecided on this. > Sometimes I keep the modification (particularly if it's useful and > doesn't adversely affect the operation and repairabilty of the machine), > sometimes I remove it. If you are merely a collector (I like to consider myself an "archivist") I think the modification is part of the historical fabric of the machine, and changing it would alter that history. If you're just a hacker, and you intend to continue use of the machine, then any change you make becomes part of the historical fabric of that machine. It just depends on how you look at it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 16 23:44:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: IBM 029 punch gets $603 Message-ID: I'm a bit surprised at the result of this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2734334833 I suppose it makes sense that these things are getting harder to come by, but I think the $603 top bid is a tad high. The most interesting stuff didn't even get bids. Of course the Documation card reader didn't get any hits with the US$2,700 starting bid, which is no surprise. Check out the results of the rest of the auctions here: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=wfe3z&include=0&since=30&sort=3&rows=25 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jun 17 07:42:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hello, I am restoring an 11/70 with a BA11-F chassis which uses 17 4.7"x4.7"x1.5" 115v muffin fans (as they all do) and need to find a good source for replacements. Does anyone have any suggestions? --tnx --tom From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jun 17 08:50:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? Message-ID: I would also add that if the modification was simply board-swapping or chip-swapping (e.g., an overdirve processor in a PC), then I think that it would be more permissable to undo the swap. On the other hand, in general, I would leave in place a soldered modification. Indeed, such a mod might have been factory original, as I have seen a number of main boards with cut traces and hand-soldered wires snaking over the board. There will be times when the collector can not tell if the mod was "factory" or "aftermarket". A greyer area is the following: I bought a Tan-case Osborne 1 early on. Later, I had it upgraded with the 52/80/104 column display option and double density disk controller. As a "collector", does one remove the upgrades and have an "original" O1 (and it was used in the original configuration for quite some time), or keep the mods and have a fuller representation of the product's lifetime? Personally, I would keep the mods. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 10:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Restoration: how far should it go?? On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > I had my Otrona 8:16 upgraded from 256KB to 640KB RAM, so it now has > > stacked chips. However, that was a mod done at the time (actually, > > Otrona Advanced Systems had gone under by then, but it was a 3rd party > > (Brown Enterprises) mod that was current with the machine. What Tony was > > objecting to is a modern collector hot-rodding an old box by increasing > > the RAM (or processor, or ...) in a way that would not have been done > > contemporaneously with the machine. > > Related to that is what you should do if you find a modified machine -- > do you keep the modification, or return it to factory spec? There are > plenty of arguments either way (e.g. 'The modification is part of the > history of the machine and should be kept' .vs. 'The machine should be > preserved as it was originally'). Personally, I am undecided on this. > Sometimes I keep the modification (particularly if it's useful and > doesn't adversely affect the operation and repairabilty of the machine), > sometimes I remove it. If you are merely a collector (I like to consider myself an "archivist") I think the modification is part of the historical fabric of the machine, and changing it would alter that history. If you're just a hacker, and you intend to continue use of the machine, then any change you make becomes part of the historical fabric of that machine. It just depends on how you look at it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jun 17 09:14:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Cambridge (the UK one! :) computer companies Message-ID: <20030617140959.2129.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I do occasional volunteer work for a technology museum in Cambridge - one of the things they're interested in doing (once some new storage is put in so that things can be moved around) is putting on an exhibit showing the history of computing in the Cambridge area. At present I'm really after suggestions of machines to look out for (and machines themselves if it's that or they go to the tip!) - other than Acorn, Sinclair and Torch from personal experience I'm not sure who was really active in this region, and know basically nothing of what went on in the 60's and 70's around here. I expect some of you UK guys know the history of the British computing scene pretty well though. I already have plenty of Sinclair and Acorn machines (I picked up yet another BBC Master along with a more modern A3020 and Risc PC only yesterday) but will have to be on the lookout for other systems of local significance over the coming weeks. cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jun 17 09:32:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:25 2005 Subject: Items wanted in the UK for purchase or lease In-Reply-To: <3EEA5586.19390.E38F4185@localhost> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Hans Franke > Sent: 13 June 2003 21:52 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Items wanted in the UK for purchase or lease > > > F > > I've received this request for a couple of items wanted on this > side of the > > pond. If anyone can help can they contact Tony Edwards directly > on either > > the number in the message below or at tedwards@tech-group.co.uk. > > >----- > > Regards - Tony Edwards > > 01793 833440 > > The Technologies Group > > www.tech-group.co.uk > >----- > > Well, he's mailing around since some time, but as far as I know > never accepted an offer ... Really? It's the first time I've heard from him - how long has he been doing this? cheers -- adrian/witchy - still looking for an Odyssey game cable :) www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From tmkwan at pacific.net.hk Tue Jun 17 09:32:35 2003 From: tmkwan at pacific.net.hk (tmkwan@pacific.net.hk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 problem Message-ID: <20030616035324.LCAX27640.mxrelay1.pacific.net.hk@[202.14.67.80]> Does anybody know how to fix the classic protable Epson HX-20? This is my part of collections, I know it's work fine before. When I tried to switch on the machine last week, (it was after 15 hrs charged), the LCD didn't show up and there was no response on the contrast wheel. But I still tried to key in something, like "SOUND 10,10" and "LPRINT A", there was a beep sound and the text printed from the mini-printer. Then I plug in the AC adapter again and tried to switch 'on and off' many times on the startup switcher, the LCD worked again. At that time I thought the problem is solved. After one day later, the problem happened again, I needed to switch on and off many times to make the machine wake up. I am sure the machine is work on the first switch, because the computer responded my key strokes but the LCD still sleep. Really want to know what's happened on this machine and how to check/fix it? Thanks Man From tedtace34 at netzero.com Tue Jun 17 09:32:51 2003 From: tedtace34 at netzero.com (tedtace34@netzero.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: to Jeffrey Sharp Re: Jeffrey Worley Message-ID: <20030616.072403.511.18788@webmail09.lax.untd.com> I saw your entry that seems to be about a year old about Jeff Worley. I thought it was odd that you refered to him with the handle Technoid. The Jeffrey Worley I knew from High school ('86-'87) in Miami went by "technoid mutant". I'm wondering if this is the same person I know. if so, I might have some disturbing news about Jeffrey. Please let me know if some of the information I have presented here seems to Jibe with who you knew. Ted Hubbart From root at parse.com Tue Jun 17 09:33:07 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for KE8I/EAE PDP-8 Extended Arithmetic Element Message-ID: <200306161648.MAA28513@parse.com> Hi folks, I tried alt.sys.pdp8, google, and AEK's site, but I can't for the life of me find any schematics for the PDP-8/I's Extended Arithmetic Element. Can anyone help out? See http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/restore.html for the ongoing saga :-) Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From TeddTAce34 at netzero.net Tue Jun 17 09:33:23 2003 From: TeddTAce34 at netzero.net (TedH) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Technoid Mutant Message-ID: <000001c33475$15590780$0500a8c0@srv2> Mr. Sharp, I'm sorry I hadn't had a chance to do more research before my last E-Mail, I found his full handle just tonight. I don't know if you know what happened, but I'll let you know that you can look up his last name @ www.click10.com and get part of the story if you don't already know. Ted Hubbart From luc at e2t.be Tue Jun 17 11:27:00 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Systems/schematics In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720DD932@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD61A@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> About the OIS140 system I am sure I have all the schematics (at least till 1981 - the year I left Wang) About the terminal - I have only known the all-in-one versions (there were 2 models I think, one was 8080 based, the newer one Z80 based) The problem might be to reproduce them - in those days schematics were real blueprints - size at least A3 some even A2 (sorry but I can not translate this to "other side of the ocean" format) in any case to large for my scanner. During the years they also colored pretty brown or gray, so I am afraid a regular copy might be hard to read. If I had the time I could redraw them in a schematic program but time is one of the things I miss most in my life... It was goo to see this old OIS140 back on your website - I haven't seen one since I left Wang. If I could find one in Europe, it would be a pleasure to start it up again. I 'll try to find the floppy disks back - I had all system diagnostics, games (you the good old cave...) and so on... Luc Vande Velde luc@e2t.be -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jim Donoghue Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 2:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Wang Computer Systems/schematics I've been trying to find schematics for some time now.. the only thing I have managed to find so far are some VS-85 schematics. I have started an OIS web site, you can see it at www.cass.net/~jdonoghu/wang.html If you can find them, I'd be interested in them! On Mon, 2003-06-16 at 03:14, Luc Vande Velde wrote: > Hi, I ve been working at Wang in a previous life. Should be (or was) an OIS > specialist... > I might have all schematics - software and so on somewhere. > If you need them give al yell back and I 'll look for it > > Luc Vande Velde > Belgium > -- Jim Donoghue Smithy Co. (734) 913-6700 From norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com Tue Jun 17 11:31:01 2003 From: norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com (Norm Aleks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Scanning Microfiche In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I bought an Epson photo scanner for just this purpose -- mine has a max resolution of 2400x4800. Although the DPI appears to be adequate, as someone else posted, the actual execution is problematic. One issue is the focus plane of the scanner -- for transparencies, it's slightly above the platen, and it's hard to get a non-mounted transparency to the correct height. Even when I'd position a portion of the fiche at the correct height, the quality of the scan was below what was visible when looking at the fiche on a cheap viewer ... it was a disappointment. (One issue, I believe, is that the tranparency illuminator is non-collimated.) It's possible to get a pretty good quality final product with a LOT of tweaking in Photoshop, but unfortunately you can't apply the same set of tweaks to each image -- it's all done by eye, page by page. The bottom line is that the transparency scanner is pretty good for slides but not so great for fiche. Actual fiche scanners first enlarge the image and then use a more standard scanning system to get an image at a "real" 200dpi or 300dpi or whatever it is you want. They get really nice results. They're also really expensive. Service bureaus vary wildly in cost. I forget the pricing but the best deal I found when I was looking at this more was a company in India that would do the scans and then mail back the original fiche along with a CD-ROM of the scans. Norm > I think it's time to revisit the ever popular topic of scanning > Microfiche. I'm in the market for a new scanner, and ran across the > "Epson Perfection 3200 Photo" scanner. I was looking at it, because > it's one of a very few Firewire scanners on the market. What really got > me to thinking though, is the fact that it is a 3200x6400dpi scanner, > and has a 4"x9" transparency adapter. This has me wondering if it > wouldn't work for scanning Microfiche. > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject? > > Zane From luc at e2t.be Tue Jun 17 12:15:00 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720DD960@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD61C@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> I 've replaced them by the dozens in those early days - this are industry standard fans, I think you can find them anywhere. Just make sure you have ball bearings, no sleeves. They are a bit nosier (who cares in an 11/70) but last much longer. In Europe we used Torin (UK factory) and Papst (Germany) but they were all 220V versions of cause... gr. Luc -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Uban Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? Hello, I am restoring an 11/70 with a BA11-F chassis which uses 17 4.7"x4.7"x1.5" 115v muffin fans (as they all do) and need to find a good source for replacements. Does anyone have any suggestions? --tnx --tom From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jun 17 12:42:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD61C@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> References: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720DD960@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD61C@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <20030617173848.GB2547@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Luc Vande Velde, from writings of Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 07:09:49PM +0200: > I 've replaced them by the dozens in those early days - this are industry Why??? I thought that only clueless biz'driods and related idiots replaced perfectly good repairable equipment. All that one needs to do is disassemble the fans, clean them up, soak the old bearings/race assembly in mineral spirits, apply new grease and then reassemble the fans. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 17 12:57:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > A greyer area is the following: I bought a Tan-case Osborne 1 early on. > Later, I had it upgraded with the 52/80/104 column display option and > double density disk controller. As a "collector", does one remove the > upgrades and have an "original" O1 (and it was used in the original > configuration for quite some time), or keep the mods and have a fuller > representation of the product's lifetime? Personally, I would keep the > mods. Me too. They're part of its history. I don't see how the machine would be better represented in its "factory" condition than in the condition it was in when it was last used. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Jun 17 13:21:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030617191036.03ffefd8@pop.freeserve.net> At 07:45 17/06/2003 -0600, Feldman, Robert wrote: >I would also add that if the modification was simply board-swapping or >chip-swapping (e.g., an overdirve processor in a PC), then I think that it >would be more permissable to undo the swap. On the other hand, in general, >I would leave in place a soldered modification. Indeed, such a mod might >have been factory original, as I have seen a number of main boards with >cut traces and hand-soldered wires snaking over the board. There will be >times when the collector can not tell if the mod was "factory" or >"aftermarket". When I was an apprentice for Ferranti Computer Systems, I spent six months in the Test Dept. Mostly post-production testing. Every board had a mod level, and most mods were indeed cut tracks and hand soldered wires. We also had to test equipment that was returned from the customer for new mods to be applied. (so does that count as "aftermarket" or factory?) Rob From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Jun 17 13:39:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Cambridge (the UK one! :) computer companies In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:09:59 BST." <20030617140959.2129.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200306171828.TAA04467@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Jules Richardson said: > I do occasional volunteer work for a technology museum in Cambridge - one of > the things they're interested in doing (once some new storage is put in so that > things can be moved around) is putting on an exhibit showing the history of > computing in the Cambridge area. > > At present I'm really after suggestions of machines to look out for (and > machines themselves if it's that or they go to the tip!) - other than Acorn, > Sinclair and Torch from personal experience I'm not sure who was really active > in this region, and know basically nothing of what went on in the 60's and 70's > IIRC Comart were in St. Neots, or is that too far away?? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From kapteynr at cboe.com Tue Jun 17 13:47:00 2003 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? Message-ID: I agree. The whole historical significance of classic computers is the way they inspired tinkerer's everywhere. When you see my Altair, with its maze of prototyped wire-wrap interfaces, the monitor made from a converted B&W TV set, and the homemade "light pen" -- it brings all of this history into perspective. Never mind the fact that I haven't dared to power it up in years :-) -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:48 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Restoration: how far should it go?? On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > A greyer area is the following: I bought a Tan-case Osborne 1 early on. > Later, I had it upgraded with the 52/80/104 column display option and > double density disk controller. As a "collector", does one remove the > upgrades and have an "original" O1 (and it was used in the original > configuration for quite some time), or keep the mods and have a fuller > representation of the product's lifetime? Personally, I would keep the > mods. Me too. They're part of its history. I don't see how the machine would be better represented in its "factory" condition than in the condition it was in when it was last used. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jun 17 13:58:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Cambridge (the UK one! :) computer companies References: <20030617140959.2129.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EEF6483.9060703@gifford.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > At present I'm really after suggestions of machines to look out for (and > machines themselves if it's that or they go to the tip!) Well, all of the Sinclair and Acorn machines are pretty obvious candidates. But then there's also Science of Cambridge with the MK14, Jupiter Cantab with the Jupiter Ace, and H&H with the Tiger. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 17 14:34:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Restoration: how far should it go?? Message-ID: <200306171929.MAA00885@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Well, some would consider what I've done to be real bad while others might see the reason behind my actions. I have an Olivetti M20. This is one of the rare desk tops that was made with a Z8000 processor ( there were a couple of s-100 boards as well ). I wanted to be able to bring up CP/M-8000 on this machine. The problem was that it didn't have enough memory. They sold two versions of the memory boards, 32K and 128K. I didn't think I'd ever see any 128K boards ( most everyone I know that has one of these machines has the 32K boards ). I did the unforgivable. I modified the boards to use 64K chips instead of the 16K chips. This required some cuts and jumpers since the boards were almost the same ( power planes are different ). While I was reluctant to do these mods, I felt that bringing this software alive was more important than preserving the original condition of the machine. After all, it is the software that completes the computer. The hardware is just the means. So shot me. Dwight From aek at spies.com Tue Jun 17 16:57:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? Message-ID: <200306172155.h5HLt9hb019694@spies.com> I've just uploaded technical manuals for the RL02 and RL11 to www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dec. The RL02 manual includes a description of the drive interface. From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jun 17 17:46:01 2003 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 anyone need one? References: <200306172155.h5HLt9hb019694@spies.com> Message-ID: <3EEF9934.3D6B04D3@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Al Kossow wrote: > > I've just uploaded technical manuals for the RL02 and > RL11 to www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dec. The RL02 manual > includes a description of the drive interface. Did you rescan the RL11 Tech Desc, Al? It was already in dec/pdp11, and you've now put a slightly smaller version in dec/unibus. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 17 19:27:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > I am restoring an 11/70 with a BA11-F chassis which uses 17 > 4.7"x4.7"x1.5" 115v muffin fans (as they all do) and need to find a good > source for replacements. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd also like to find a source for 3 (maybe 4?) of these myself. The SGI IRIS 1400 I have currently has 240V fans installed, and I'd like to convert it back to 120V operation. It appears the system was modified to run on 240V after it was shipped to Europe. The only changes I've noticed have been that the fans were replaced, some jumpers were resoldered in the power supply, the metal plate with the IEC power connector appears to have been changed out, and I think the power switch was also replaced. The metal plate with the power connector has the 240V power requirement painted on it, so I know that was replaced. It appears the original 120V plate may have also had accessory outlets (can anyone prove or disprove this?), as there are some extra wires behind it terminated with quick connect terminals. The original power switch appears to have been a lighted 120V rocker, which was replaced with an unlighted rocker. The current power switch is already a candidate for replacement, as it is in pretty poor shape, and has obviously arced a great deal in the past. -Toth From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 18 01:18:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Alpha Phase 2 Testers needed for Vintage Computer Marketplace Message-ID: Hello Folks. We're entering Phase 2 of our Alpha testing of the new Vintage Computer Marketplace. It took us a little bit longer than anticipated to get the basic service rolling but everything is in place and running now. We need a few more testers to help exercise the basic functionality before we turn it up to Beta testing. If you're interested in helping to test out the service, please e-mail me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jun 18 08:56:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Fwd: [swap] 5 MB Proflile hard drive for Lisa/Apple II Message-ID: Saw this on the LEM Swap list, thought someone might be interested. Contact them, not me. ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 6/18/03 8:37 AM Received: 6/18/03 9:24 AM From: rminton@commscope.com To: LEM Swap List, lem-swap@mail.maclaunch.com 5 MB Profile hard drive in good working order, works with Lisa (not Mac XL's) or Apple II's with parallel cards. $75 + shipping. Thanks, Randy ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- -chris From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 18 09:36:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: [swap] 5 MB Proflile hard drive for Lisa/Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002b01c335a6$3acf1900$023ca8c0@blafleur> I believe I have Apple II and Apple III controller cards that will work with this drive (working condition not guaranteed, but they should work) if anyone is interested. I used to have one of these drives on my Apple II and it died, but I believe I kept the controller card. (And when I got the drive, it came with an Apple III controller which I never used) - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of chris Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:52 AM To: Classic Computer Subject: Fwd: [swap] 5 MB Proflile hard drive for Lisa/Apple II Saw this on the LEM Swap list, thought someone might be interested. Contact them, not me. ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 6/18/03 8:37 AM Received: 6/18/03 9:24 AM From: rminton@commscope.com To: LEM Swap List, lem-swap@mail.maclaunch.com 5 MB Profile hard drive in good working order, works with Lisa (not Mac XL's) or Apple II's with parallel cards. $75 + shipping. Thanks, Randy ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- -chris From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jun 18 10:06:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Cambridge (the UK one! :) computer companies In-Reply-To: <20030617140959.2129.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 17 June 2003 15:10 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Cambridge (the UK one! :) computer companies > > Sinclair and Torch from personal experience I'm not sure who was > really active > in this region, and know basically nothing of what went on in the > 60's and 70's > around here. I expect some of you UK guys know the history of the British > computing scene pretty well though. 3 more spring to mind - Enterprise, Camputers and Newbury Labs all had facilities in Cambridge (the Silicon Fen IIRC :). You've got a lot of research to do though - I've been told by someone who used to work at Intelligent Software (creators of the Enterprise) AND Newbury that there were 142 computer related companies in Cambridge when he left IS! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jun 18 10:08:15 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Looking for a MCA card Message-ID: I am looking for a PS/2 Ultimedia Audio Card. I want to use it in an RS/6K. Anyone have an Ultimedia PS/2 they're not using and don't mind giving up the card? Peace... Sridhar From allread at earthlink.net Wed Jun 18 10:09:52 2003 From: allread at earthlink.net (Jean Allread) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: ZENITH EASY PC Message-ID: <3EF0576C.79F84C2C@earthlink.net> Hello - I was given your address as I have a Zenith Easy PC that I want to give to a good home. I have continued to use it for various projects even though I have a Dell XP for most activities. I have all the books that came with it; first choice software and also an Epson printer for both continuous forms and singles. That I would like to sell. Would like to hear from an interested person - otherwise, it will be going to Goodwill who will probably dump it. Thanks. Jean in N. Carolina From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 18 10:18:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030617002305.10578.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3EF09E2B.2636.FC1B05AF@localhost> > > OK, > > You talked me into getting a "new" Mac! > > When did they start having expansion slots? > The MacSE was the first to have an expansion slot that I know of. I > have a graphics card and a couple of 10Base2 network cards (one from > Asante, IIRC; one from Novell). It's called a "PDS" slot ("P"rocessor > "D"irect "S"lot) - completely custom to whatever particular Mac > it's in (with a few exceptions, like the MacIIsi and MacSE/30 sharing > a slot and backplate design). *Standard* slots didn't come along > until the MacII line - those are called "NuBus". Those phased out > in the PowerPC days and have been supplanted with PCI slots in modern > PPC Macs (for those models that have slots at all). In my opinion the LC 475 and Performa 630 are the best coices for a classic (68k) Mac. Both hafe the 32 Bit PDS slot, where you may find network cards or even video cards. Beside that you may with low effort design your own cards, since the PDS is nothing else than a 68k bus, ment for machine specific add ons. > The Mac approach is something like the Amiga approach - give little > boxes a proprietary processor-specific slot Now, let's get setious, isn't the ISA bus exactly the same? A Processor specific bus for an 8088 system (and an extension to 16 Bit for the AT) ? As a real difference, Apple adopted a CPU independant standard by using the Nubus for their slot Macs (and PCI today). > (Amiga 1000, Amiga 500, > Amiga 1200), and give the high-ticket boxes something standard > (Amiga 2000, Amiga 3000, Amiga 4000...) The difference is that you > can electrically fit an Amiga 1000 peripheral on an Amiga 500, but > not a MacSE card into even something as close to an SE/30 (68000 > vs 68030, so incompatible PDS slots). There are several flavors of > Mac PDS slots, but one flavor of NuBus and PCI, AFAIK. Basicly you'll have a 16 Bit and a 32 Bit PDS Version. Way like the XT/AT thing for PCs. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From asholz at topinform.com Wed Jun 18 10:38:00 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Converting .tap files to real tapes In-Reply-To: <1046389888.30653.8.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1046389888.30653.8.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3EF08659.7050104@topinform.com> Christopher, some questions to your program: what does the statement do: read(infile,&reclen,4); ? this syntax does not conform to UNIX (POSIX) read (e.g. HP/UX): ssize_t read(int filedes, void *buf, size_t nbyte); Are these ".tap" files some kind of a standard format? Background: I got some files which are claiming to be in a ".tap" format and I would like to write the to tape! Andreas Christopher McNabb wrote: >I've hacked together a 2.11 BSD C program (nothing special, should work >on other *nixen) that takes a .tap tape file and spits it onto a real >tape. I've tested it with both a TK50 and a TS05 tape drive. It even >successfully wrote a bootable TK50 format XXDP 2.5 tape. I'm going to >be cleaning up the code and posting it on the web, but for those who >can't wait, here is the raw code. It is left as an exercise to the >reader to figure out where my MUA breaks the source code lines. > >------------ Cut Here -------------------- >/* detap.c - 2003 by Christopher L McNabb */ > >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include >#include > >main(argc, argv) >int argc; >char *argv[]; >{ > int infile,outfile,ctr; > long int offset; > long int records=1; > long int filecnt=1; > long int reclen; > long int reclen2; > void* buffer; > struct mtop tapeeof,taperew; > > ctr = 0; > taperew.mt_op = MTREW; > taperew.mt_count = 1; > tapeeof.mt_op = MTWEOF; > tapeeof.mt_count = 1; > if(argc < 3) > { > printf("Usage: %s infile outdev\n",argv[0]); > exit(-1); > } > infile=open(argv[1],O_RDONLY); > if(infile < 0) > { > printf("Could not open %s\n",argv[1]); > exit(-1); > } > outfile=open(argv[2],O_CREAT | O_RDWR | O_TRUNC,IREAD | IWRITE); > if(outfile < 0) > { > printf("Could not open %s\n",argv[2]); > exit(-1); > } > printf("Rewinding Tape\n"); > if( 0 > ioctl(outfile,MTIOCTOP,&taperew)) > { > printf("\nMTIOCOP REW ERROR\n"); > exit(-1); > } > offset = 0; > read(infile,&reclen,4); > while(1) > { > ctr ++; > if(reclen == 0) > { > filecnt++; > if(0 > ioctl(outfile,MTIOCTOP,&tapeeof)) > { > printf("\nMTIOCTOP EOF ERR\n"); > exit(-1); > } > read(infile,&reclen,4); > if(reclen == 0) > { > printf("\nEnd of Tape\n"); > close(outfile); > ioctl(outfile,MTIOCTOP,&taperew); > break; > } > records=1; > continue; > } > buffer = malloc(reclen); > read(infile,buffer,reclen); > read(infile,&reclen2,4); > if(reclen != reclen2) > { > lseek(infile,-3,L_INCR); > read(infile,&reclen2,4); > if(reclen != reclen2) > { > printf("\nHdr1 and Hdr2 do not match\n"); > exit(-1); > } > } > write(outfile,buffer,reclen); > fprintf(stdout,"Total Records: %6d File: %6ld Record: %6ld Record >Length: %6u\r",ctr,filecnt,records,reclen); > fflush(stdout); > free(buffer); > records++; > read(infile,&reclen,4); > } > close(infile); > close(outfile); >} > >------------------- SNIP -------------------------- From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 10:41:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <3EF09E2B.2636.FC1B05AF@localhost> Message-ID: <20030618153635.29799.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > In my opinion the LC 475 and Performa 630 are the best coices for > a classic (68k) Mac. Both hafe the 32 Bit PDS slot, where you may > find network cards or even video cards. Beside that you may with > low effort design your own cards, since the PDS is nothing else > than a 68k bus, ment for machine specific add ons. My personal favorite is the SE/30, but I like the compact Mac format and the built-in monitor. If you need color, then I'd agree about the two models you mentioned. > > The Mac approach is something like the Amiga approach - give little > > boxes a proprietary processor-specific slot > > Now, let's get setious, isn't the ISA bus exactly the same? > A Processor specific bus for an 8088 system (and an extension > to 16 Bit for the AT) ? Well... it certainly was for the PC, XT and AT. By the time the CPUs went to a 32-bit data bus, the ISA bus was, in effect, emulated. > Basicly you'll have a 16 Bit and a 32 Bit PDS Version. Way > like the XT/AT thing for PCs. I'll admit to that being basically true, but when you are trying to fit card "A" into Mac "B", how many varieties of PDS slot are there? I don't know the exact answer, but I have handled at least three kinds of cards (SE (16-bit), SE/30+IIsi (32-bit) and LC (32-bit). -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 10:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Converting .tap files to real tapes In-Reply-To: <3EF08659.7050104@topinform.com> Message-ID: <20030618154829.70666.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Holz wrote: > Christopher, > > some questions to your program: > > what does the statement do: > > read(infile,&reclen,4); ? > > this syntax does not conform to UNIX (POSIX) read (e.g. HP/UX): > > ssize_t read(int filedes, void *buf, size_t nbyte); I'm not Christopher, but I do have an answer: 2BSD is older than POSIX. It's also older than ANSI C. If I had to guess (not having 2BSD sources in front of me), I'd expect the prototype for read() to be: int read(int filedes, char *buf, int nbyte); ** Back in the K&R days, people were loose with I/O buffer declaration, pointer casting, etc. What he's doing there is telling read() to fill his int 'reclen' with four bytes from the input stream. I'm sure it works for him in his environment, but I wouldn't call it a portable solution. > Are these ".tap" files some kind of a standard format? I am familiar with .tap files from the Commodore world - specifically as input to VICE. I wouldn't know if these .tap files are compatible or not without some code inspection. > Background: I got some files which are claiming to be in a ".tap" format > and I would like to write the to tape! Do you know what tool created them? That might be helpful to know. -ethan ** - According to K&R, 1st ed., section 8.2, p. 160, it simply describes read as "n_read = read(fd, buf, n)" and goes on to use them with n_read declared as a int, buf declared as char[], and n defined as a constant. From luc at e2t.be Wed Jun 18 10:53:20 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720DE487@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD623@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Hi, I had to look up a few words of your reply in the dictonary... You can (or could) do that for your own equipment, but I can't imagine me walking around with grease tubes and mineral spirits in the computer rooms of those days. Second, a fan costed about $10-$15 and a computer engineer about $80-$100 per hour. Third, you could't take the risk - if the bloody thing went down again the next 12 months, you smoked a huge cuban havana... and at last, this things are supposed to be impedance protected, but after being stalled for some time, more then once the windings were damaged... this was perhaps less common on the 110V versions, but our european 220V's had other behaviors. This was not ebay stuff you bought for a few bucks, but $80.000 - $100.000 equipment. Luc -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? Quothe Luc Vande Velde, from writings of Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 07:09:49PM +0200: > I 've replaced them by the dozens in those early days - this are industry Why??? I thought that only clueless biz'driods and related idiots replaced perfectly good repairable equipment. All that one needs to do is disassemble the fans, clean them up, soak the old bearings/race assembly in mineral spirits, apply new grease and then reassemble the fans. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jun 18 11:07:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <3EF09E2B.2636.FC1B05AF@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jun 18, 3 05:15:23 pm" Message-ID: <200306181614.JAA12918@floodgap.com> > In my opinion the LC 475 and Performa 630 are the best coices for > a classic (68k) Mac. Both hafe the 32 Bit PDS slot, where you may > find network cards or even video cards. Beside that you may with > low effort design your own cards, since the PDS is nothing else > than a 68k bus, ment for machine specific add ons. No offense, Hans, but I *HATE* the 630. :-P The case alone drives me up the wall, and it's an IDE oddball (since I like classic Macs, I have tons of SCSI drives in stock, but I rarely stock small-capacity IDE drives). I do like the LC 475, but unless you have a real '040 installed (granted these are not hard to find at decent prices), things like NetBSD might break or give you much additional unnecessary grief. Ditto again for the (gag) 630. My favourite all-around classic Mac is the venerable IIci. Three NuBus slots, eight 30-pin SIMM slots (I have 128MB in my NetBSD IIci :-), runs MacOS, Linux/68k and NetBSD/mac68k like a champ, dirt cheap, extremely easy to find, cheap, easy to repair (power supply pops out too), stacks well, cleans up nice, and very cheap. Plus, you can find lots of accelerators and cards for them. My A/UX IIci has a 8*24*GC and a Daystar 50MHz '030 + FPU in it (enough to play DOOM!). Did I mention they were cheap? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Tell the truth, and run. -- Yugoslav proverb ------------------------------- From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jun 18 11:10:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030618153635.29799.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 18, 3 08:36:35 am" Message-ID: <200306181617.JAA13980@floodgap.com> > I don't know the exact answer, but I have handled at least three > kinds of cards (SE (16-bit), SE/30+IIsi (32-bit) and LC (32-bit). Add the IIci (32-bit) and the 61-71-8100 (32-bit). Isn't there a 16-bit LC PDS as well? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. -- W. von Braun From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 18 11:11:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Fwd: [swap] 5 MB Proflile hard drive for Lisa/Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: $75 is a bit steep. Unless you're desperate, offer $25 at most. On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, chris wrote: > Saw this on the LEM Swap list, thought someone might be interested. > > Contact them, not me. > > ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- > Date: 6/18/03 8:37 AM > Received: 6/18/03 9:24 AM > From: rminton@commscope.com > To: LEM Swap List, lem-swap@mail.maclaunch.com > > 5 MB Profile hard drive in good working order, works with Lisa (not Mac > XL's) or Apple II's with parallel cards. > > $75 + shipping. > > Thanks, > > Randy > ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- > > -chris > > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 18 11:11:16 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030618153635.29799.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3EF09E2B.2636.FC1B05AF@localhost> Message-ID: <3EF0AB51.18889.FC4E63F4@localhost> > > In my opinion the LC 475 and Performa 630 are the best coices for > > a classic (68k) Mac. Both hafe the 32 Bit PDS slot, where you may > > find network cards or even video cards. Beside that you may with > > low effort design your own cards, since the PDS is nothing else > > than a 68k bus, ment for machine specific add ons. > My personal favorite is the SE/30, but I like the compact Mac > format and the built-in monitor. If you need color, then I'd > agree about the two models you mentioned. I like the LC 475 for it's compactness while still having a powerful 040, and the 630 for it's extensibility. 56 MB of RAM in a 68k Mac is just to good to be true. CD Drive build in and a 33 MHz 040 is everything you'll ever need - not to mention the usage of IDE drives which allow the usage of cheap large drives. And if the 486DX2 card is installed, you get the best of both worlds (and a total RAM of 120 MB:) > > > The Mac approach is something like the Amiga approach - give little > > > boxes a proprietary processor-specific slot > > Now, let's get setious, isn't the ISA bus exactly the same? > > A Processor specific bus for an 8088 system (and an extension > > to 16 Bit for the AT) ? > Well... it certainly was for the PC, XT and AT. By the time the > CPUs went to a 32-bit data bus, the ISA bus was, in effect, emulated. Still, it's a bus designed for a specific proprietary hardware. How it's handled doesn't matter - there have been quite some adoptions to other processors (aka emulations). > > Basicly you'll have a 16 Bit and a 32 Bit PDS Version. Way > > like the XT/AT thing for PCs. > I'll admit to that being basically true, but when you are trying to > fit card "A" into Mac "B", how many varieties of PDS slot are there? > I don't know the exact answer, but I have handled at least three > kinds of cards (SE (16-bit), SE/30+IIsi (32-bit) and LC (32-bit). LC is available in a 16 Bit flavour (LC,LC II, LC III) and 32 Bit one (LC 475, Performa 630 etc.). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 18 11:37:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Classic Macs and extensibility In-Reply-To: <200306181614.JAA12918@floodgap.com> References: <3EF09E2B.2636.FC1B05AF@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jun 18, 3 05:15:23 pm" Message-ID: <3EF0B14F.4881.FC65CB2A@localhost> > > In my opinion the LC 475 and Performa 630 are the best coices for > > a classic (68k) Mac. Both hafe the 32 Bit PDS slot, where you may > > find network cards or even video cards. Beside that you may with > > low effort design your own cards, since the PDS is nothing else > > than a 68k bus, ment for machine specific add ons. > No offense, Hans, but I *HATE* the 630. :-P The case alone drives me up the > wall, and it's an IDE oddball (since I like classic Macs, I have tons of > SCSI drives in stock, but I rarely stock small-capacity IDE drives). Now, exactly the IDE is a good thing. I come across IDE drives all the time. Sure, I had the same opinion before. A real Mac has to use a real drive :) And as I said already, the huge RAM for a desk top Mac is a definite plus, which also goes for the CD Drive, the Slot for the 486 Card (which also offers a lot of ways to hack it), and the posibility to have several (specific) extensions - including graphic cards without occupieing the PDS Slot. > I do like the LC 475, but unless you have a real '040 installed (granted these > are not hard to find at decent prices), things like NetBSD might break or > give you much additional unnecessary grief. Ditto again for the (gag) 630. Now, why having a Mac and then installing some Unix? Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Jun 18 11:52:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Alpha Phase 2 Testers needed for Vintage Computer Marketplace Message-ID: Hello Sellam, Let me know what you need me to do and I'll take a shot at it. . . Best regards, Erik > Hello Folks. > > We're entering Phase 2 of our Alpha testing of the new Vintage Computer > Marketplace. It took us a little bit longer than anticipated to get the > basic service rolling but everything is in place and running now. We need > a few more testers to help exercise the basic functionality before we turn > it up to Beta testing. > > If you're interested in helping to test out the service, please e- mail me > directly. > > Thanks! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -- From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Jun 18 11:58:00 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Still searching for a "Trump Card" Message-ID: <200306181657.h5IGvQZ53421@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, i'm still trying to find a Z-8000 Trump Card ... I asked Steve Ciarcia for some help, unfortunately he has thrown away all existing stuff :-(. He mentioned, that Sweet Micro Systems (who manufactured the board) sold 500 - 1000 to Nielsen ratings. I tried to get in contact with them, but this was not successful (i got no response to my request). Does anyone have connections to former Sweet Micro Systems or Nielsen ratings people, that could help me ? Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 18 12:22:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: HP front-panel keys Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030618131754.3a4fd43c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> John, I found my original HP 1000 keys and they are marked 4T1427. The CAT99 keys may be for the back door of the cabinet. Many of the HP 1000s were mounted in cabinents that had locking doors on the back. I don't know what the key number was but I think they had round heads also. I do know they were made of brass and I know that they were different from the FP keys. If you don't need the FP keys I can use them. I've made copies but they're not the same as the originals and aren't as nice. Joe > > I have several HP 1000s and two original keys but I'm not sure what you're asking. But yes the keys in all of the HP 1000s are interchangeable, at least in the six or eight machines that I've tried. I don't have one here but IIRC they are Corbin keys and they are brass with a round head. FWIW I just got some keys made and it was a real hassle. I tried Home Depot, Lowe's and a couple of othe large hardware places and they didn't have any blanks of the same type. I finally went ot a small local hardware store and they found some blanks made by another company (ILCO?) that they could make keys from. The new keys have a trapazoid shaped head like that usually used on house keys and they're nickel plated steel so they look completely different from the original keys. > > The locks on the HP 1000 simply hold the front panel closed. But the main power switch is located under the cover. > > If what you have ARE HP 1000 keys I could use them but it's probably not worth the cost to ship them from the UK to Florida. > > Joe > > > >At 09:51 PM 6/6/03 +0100, you wrote: >>Quick question for those people with HP 1000 machines and the like... >>what are the front-panel keys like? Only I have a few discarded HP >>keys here that are all alike: >> >> Corbin Cabinet Lock CAT99 >> Corbin 4T1427 >> >>All the keys are brass. Are they for an HP front-panel lock of some >>sort? If so, which? >> >>-- >>John Honniball >>coredump@gifford.co.uk From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jun 18 12:26:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Classic Macs and extensibility In-Reply-To: <3EF0B14F.4881.FC65CB2A@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jun 18, 3 06:37:03 pm" Message-ID: <200306181733.KAA13030@floodgap.com> > > I do like the LC 475, but unless you have a real '040 installed (granted > > these are not hard to find at decent prices), things like NetBSD might > > break or give you much additional unnecessary grief. Ditto again for the > > (gag) 630. > Now, why having a Mac and then installing some Unix? As collectables, no good reason. They're better off running MacOS in that case :-) But I have so many Macs in stock that I want to put them to good use, and my IIci makes a dandy DNS, AppleShare and print server. It was running continuously for over 190 days after I got it set up, and it was only interrupted because I had to unplug and move it to its new rack. (Before that I just had it on occasionally to play with.) It's the master internal DNS, and all the clients query it, and all the other servers mirror it. Seniority matters on my network. Btw, I just put NetBSD on a 7300+G3/500 over the weekend and with an ATA/100 drive, it cooks. But this is now off-topic. :-D -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Artificial intelligence is no match for natural idiocy. -------------------- From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jun 18 12:30:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <3EF0AB51.18889.FC4E63F4@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jun 18, 3 06:11:29 pm" Message-ID: <200306181737.KAA14148@floodgap.com> > I like the LC 475 for it's compactness while still having a > powerful 040, and the 630 for it's extensibility. 56 MB of > RAM in a 68k Mac is just to good to be true. Yes, but I have 128MB in my IIci :-)))) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- New political correctness is but old fascism [writ] large. - Dr Digby James From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jun 18 12:36:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Classic Macs and extensibility In-Reply-To: <3EF0B14F.4881.FC65CB2A@localhost> References: <200306181614.JAA12918@floodgap.com> <3EF09E2B.2636.FC1B05AF@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030618132334.027e2a18@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Hans Franke may have mentioned these words: [snip] >Now, why having a Mac and then installing some Unix? One [big] word: Multitasking. I had it before the Mac even *existed*... I was amazed how long it took for the Mac ( & PeeCee, to be fair) to get it. It's why my stacked '386sx was little more than a Nintendo, and my Tandy CoCo3 was still my workhorse, well into the '90s. Tschu? (und Prost), Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jun 18 12:42:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: HP front-panel keys References: <3.0.6.16.20030618131754.3a4fd43c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005701c335c0$6022eb40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Joe wrote... >I do know they > were made of brass and I know that they were different from the FP keys. If > you don't need the FP keys I can use them. I've got quite a few (ok, 5) HP racks with locking backs. The key that works in those locks ALSO works on the front panel for all of mine. Jay West From kth at srv.net Wed Jun 18 12:51:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Converting .tap files to real tapes References: <1046389888.30653.8.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> <3EF08659.7050104@topinform.com> Message-ID: <3EF0AF48.2000201@srv.net> Andreas Holz wrote: > Christopher, > > some questions to your program: > > what does the statement do: > > read(infile,&reclen,4); ? > > this syntax does not conform to UNIX (POSIX) read (e.g. HP/UX): > > ssize_t read(int filedes, void *buf, size_t nbyte); > > Are these ".tap" files some kind of a standard format? > > Background: I got some files which are claiming to be in a ".tap" > format and I would like to write the to tape! If these ".tap" files are those used by simh, then the format is really fairly simple, and documented here. http://simh.trailing-edge.com/papers.html or, slightly more directly http://simh.trailing-edge.com/docs/simh_magtape.pdf From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jun 18 13:08:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Looking for a MCA card Message-ID: <50.1e6850ff.2c220387@aol.com> In a message dated 6/18/2003 11:06:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, vance@neurotica.com writes: << I am looking for a PS/2 Ultimedia Audio Card. I want to use it in an RS/6K. Anyone have an Ultimedia PS/2 they're not using and don't mind giving up the card? Peace... Sridhar >> Never heard of it. You talking about the Audiovation or the M-APCA? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 18 13:41:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: FA: Cirris Signature 1000 cable Tester Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030618143651.4987697e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Last week I picked up a new cable tester. As a result I'm selling my old one. It's a Cirris Signature 1000 and it comes with 17 different cable adapters plus an AC adapter and two Cirris storage boxs for the adapters. These are GREAT devices! They make testing and reverse engineering cables a breeze. This one can test up to 128 different points (in .2 seconds!) and can even print out a complete wire list that you can add to a note book for a permanent record. If you've never used one, read the description at www.cirris.com. Joe From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Jun 18 13:43:04 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Looking for a MCA card References: <50.1e6850ff.2c220387@aol.com> Message-ID: It's the same as a M-APCA card I belive. I've got one in my RS/6000 250. I'd give it up but's in use right now :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:03 PM Subject: Re: Looking for a MCA card > In a message dated 6/18/2003 11:06:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > vance@neurotica.com writes: > > << I am looking for a PS/2 Ultimedia Audio Card. I want to use it in an > RS/6K. Anyone have an Ultimedia PS/2 they're not using and don't mind > giving up the card? > > Peace... Sridhar >> > > Never heard of it. You talking about the Audiovation or the M-APCA? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 18 13:45:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: HP front-panel keys In-Reply-To: <005701c335c0$6022eb40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030618131754.3a4fd43c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030618144013.0f770b5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:38 PM 6/18/03 -0500, you wrote: >Joe wrote... >>I do know they >> were made of brass and I know that they were different from the FP keys. >If >> you don't need the FP keys I can use them. > >I've got quite a few (ok, 5) HP racks with locking backs. The key that works >in those locks ALSO works on the front panel for all of mine. That's interesting! I've checked a bunch of them and I never found a key that would fit the front and back. I wonder if it might have something to due with what the systems were intended for? Most of the ones that I've found were found of a vibration control/analyis systems or part of 3065 board test systems. Joe From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Jun 18 13:47:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: <200306181737.KAA14148@floodgap.com> Message-ID: My friend and I are collaborating on juicing a IIci as high as it will go. Right now it has 128MB RAM, two SCSI disks (No floppy mod) a Daystar 100MHz PowerPC upgrade card, and a fast Radius video card. I'm working on a fast SCSI controller, and maybe a faster video card. What would be the fastest video card you could drop in a classic, NuBus based Mac? I've got a Radius 24MXtv that's about the old equivalent of a ATI All-in-wonder, all singing and all dancing, but drivers are impossible to find. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > > I like the LC 475 for it's compactness while still having a > > powerful 040, and the 630 for it's extensibility. 56 MB of > > RAM in a 68k Mac is just to good to be true. > > Yes, but I have 128MB in my IIci :-)))) > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- New political correctness is but old fascism [writ] large. - Dr Digby James From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 13:56:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:26 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <3EF08659.7050104@topinform.com> Message-ID: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> In a fit of nostalgia, I was wanting to cruise around "Wolfenstein 3D" and "Spear of Destiny" - I still have my original *purchased* copies from 10+ years ago (on-topic!). What I'm having problems with is getting the sound to work. I've tried in two different machines, the "odder" one being my A7V motherboard with a PCI Turtle-Beach Montego Bay II card (it has no ISA slots). I've tried fiddling with the "SET BLASTER" statement in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, but I can't come up with a way to get either game to see the PCI sound card. This is after booting direct to the underlying DOS in Windows 98, so it's not a "DOS-in-a-Window" problem. Are there any good sound card probe programs for DOS that could go looking for my card and prove it can be found? I know the IRQ, but being a non-Creative Labs card, I can't verify the I/O setting, nor the DMA channel, and especially not the "T"ype for the BLASTER environment variable. Has anyone else tried running ancient software that wants to talk to sound cards on modern hardware? I expect to have similar problems with adventure games and the like, so I am looking for a general solution. "Try an older computer" is not a helpful suggestion. I am limited in how much physical space I am permitted to occupy at my S.O.'s place. An additional computer would cause a lot more trouble than it's worth. -ethan From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jun 18 13:59:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Restore Disk Question Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030618145358.022b03c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> I got this from a friend. Does anybody know the answer? ================================= I have a MAC Performa 550. Somehow my son has crashed the hard drive to the point where the computer no longer thinks there is a hard drive. Does the recovery CD allow you to boot off the CD? I have a utilities diskette but it won't restore off the backup diskettes since the computer thinks there is no hard drive any longer. ================================= Gene Ehrich gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From spc at conman.org Wed Jun 18 14:08:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Converting .tap files to real tapes In-Reply-To: <3EF08659.7050104@topinform.com> from "Andreas Holz" at Jun 18, 2003 05:33:45 PM Message-ID: <20030618190322.B6E3B66DB@tower.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Andreas Holz once stated: > > Christopher, > > some questions to your program: > > what does the statement do: > > read(infile,&reclen,4); ? > > this syntax does not conform to UNIX (POSIX) read (e.g. HP/UX): > > ssize_t read(int filedes, void *buf, size_t nbyte); It does. It reads in four bytes from infile and stores them in reclen (of which a pointer is given to read() and in ANSI C, any pointer can be cast to void *). The bug lies in how integers are written. If, for instance, the data was written on a little-endian system and then you attempt to read on a big-endian system you are not going to get consistent results. You need to ensure a consistent ordering of bytes. -spc (htonl() and ntohl() are your friends 8-) From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jun 18 14:10:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3EF08659.7050104@topinform.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030618195738.03c09fd8@pop.freeserve.net> At 11:52 18/06/2003 -0700, you wrote: >In a fit of nostalgia, I was wanting to cruise around "Wolfenstein 3D" >and "Spear of Destiny" - I still have my original *purchased* copies >from 10+ years ago (on-topic!). What I'm having problems with is >getting the sound to work. I've tried in two different machines, >the "odder" one being my A7V motherboard with a PCI Turtle-Beach >Montego Bay II card (it has no ISA slots). I've tried fiddling with >the "SET BLASTER" statement in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, but I can't come up >with a way to get either game to see the PCI sound card. [snip] Most modern PC sound cards have stopped being sound-blaster (or other comparable hardware) compatible; as with all things, manufacturers think that if they provide drivers for Windows, then that's all they have to worry about. I /have/ seen some on-board sound cards with a BIOS option to turn a compatibility mode on or off - I've also seen 'drivers' that load in config.sys to provide sound support for DOS. There may be some similar options for yours, if you dig about in whatever software came with it. You might be out of luck I'm afraid. Rob From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jun 18 14:20:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 18, 3 11:52:04 am" Message-ID: <200306181927.MAA12404@floodgap.com> > In a fit of nostalgia, I was wanting to cruise around "Wolfenstein 3D" > and "Spear of Destiny" - I still have my original *purchased* copies > from 10+ years ago (on-topic!). What I'm having problems with is > getting the sound to work. I've tried in two different machines, > the "odder" one being my A7V motherboard with a PCI Turtle-Beach > Montego Bay II card (it has no ISA slots). I've tried fiddling with > the "SET BLASTER" statement in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, but I can't come up > with a way to get either game to see the PCI sound card. Were you able to find DOS drivers for this card at all? Or was it actually advertised as being Sound Blaster compatible (specifically)? I eventually had so much difficulty that I went and bought a real Sound Blaster 16 (Fry's still sells them -- even for ISA!). This went in my 486DX4/133 that I reserve for old DOS games. The Windows 98 machine around here does in fact have DOS emulation drivers that make it look like a Sound Blaster Pro, which is sufficient for most games to run on that, too. It's a bizarre AT&T specific card, although the chipset doesn't look all that weird. > Are there any good sound card probe programs for DOS that could > go looking for my card and prove it can be found? I know the IRQ, > but being a non-Creative Labs card, I can't verify the I/O setting, > nor the DMA channel, and especially not the "T"ype for the BLASTER > environment variable. There was a program that Apogee used to distribute that did just that (something like SetBlaster or something was the title). They might have it for download, or it might be in one of their downloadable demos (I think the Xenophage and/or Wacky Wheels games had some version of this). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "Another day, another dangling modifier" ----------------------------------- From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Jun 18 14:22:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: :-) Hmm, I've got some Ultima titles like that.. Audio hardware is a fairly typical old software/modern hardware problem. FWIW, I've never had much luck w/ non-creative cards being used directly by programs that expect to talk to creative cards.. However, if you've WinNT/2000/XP in the mix you might try this: http://ntvdm.cjb.net/ (VMware is also a EXPENSIVE possiblity - but its sound drivers are not 100%) You might also try to see if someone has ported Wolfenstein to some other platform you've access to. (The source was release quite some time ago) YMMV/etc, of course. David (Would a discussion of emulating 10yr old audio hardware be considered on-topic?) From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jun 18 14:25:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Restore Disk Question In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030618145358.022b03c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> from Gene Ehrich at "Jun 18, 3 02:55:00 pm" Message-ID: <200306181932.MAA15556@floodgap.com> > I have a MAC Performa 550. Somehow my son has crashed the hard drive to the > point where the computer no longer thinks there is a hard drive. > > Does the recovery CD allow you to boot off the CD? I have a > utilities diskette but it won't restore off the backup diskettes since the > computer thinks there is no hard drive any longer. It should. Try holding down combinations like Command-Option-Shift-Delete on start up (yes, this takes some practise), or if you're lucky, try holding down the C key (I don't know if this works on that model). Obviously, the factory CD must be in the internal CD drive. What may have simply happened is the system folder somehow got unblessed. If the system fires up, and the hard disk looks okay (run Disk First Aid just to be sure), try manually reblessing the system folder by dragging the System file out to the desktop, dropping it there (release the mouse button), and then drag it back. One other possibility is bad PRAM, which can be zapped with Command-Option-P-R. This resets most system settings. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The world is not enough. --------------------------------------------------- From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 18 14:32:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? References: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b201c335cf$94196320$347ca418@neo.rr.com> The not so modern aureal vortex sound cards (Sq1500,Sq2500,Diamond monster mx300, etc) have pretty good soundblaster emulation in dos mode with their standard driver setup. These cards are dirt cheap on ebay. Very few new soundcards have DOS level drivers anymore, if any. I like the older games too which is why I have 2 dos machines running a Gravis Ultrasound max+ Sound blaster pro 2.0, and a gravis Ultrasound PnP 8mb ram + Sound blaster 16 PnP with Yamaha DXB50 wavetable addon. I also have an original soundscape (reveal sc600 i think) and a Soundscape PnP on the shelf if needed. Have to have all your bases covered and I am too cheap to buy a Roland soundcard when the GUS emulates it ok. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? > In a fit of nostalgia, I was wanting to cruise around "Wolfenstein 3D" > and "Spear of Destiny" - I still have my original *purchased* copies > from 10+ years ago (on-topic!). What I'm having problems with is > getting the sound to work. I've tried in two different machines, > the "odder" one being my A7V motherboard with a PCI Turtle-Beach > Montego Bay II card (it has no ISA slots). I've tried fiddling with > the "SET BLASTER" statement in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, but I can't come up > with a way to get either game to see the PCI sound card. > > This is after booting direct to the underlying DOS in Windows 98, > so it's not a "DOS-in-a-Window" problem. > > Are there any good sound card probe programs for DOS that could > go looking for my card and prove it can be found? I know the IRQ, > but being a non-Creative Labs card, I can't verify the I/O setting, > nor the DMA channel, and especially not the "T"ype for the BLASTER > environment variable. > > Has anyone else tried running ancient software that wants to talk > to sound cards on modern hardware? I expect to have similar problems > with adventure games and the like, so I am looking for a general > solution. "Try an older computer" is not a helpful suggestion. I > am limited in how much physical space I am permitted to occupy at > my S.O.'s place. An additional computer would cause a lot more trouble > than it's worth. > > -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jun 18 14:33:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Restore Disk Question Message-ID: >I have a MAC Performa 550. Somehow my son has crashed the hard drive to the >point where the computer no longer thinks there is a hard drive. > >Does the recovery CD allow you to boot off the CD? I have a >utilities diskette but it won't restore off the backup diskettes since the >computer thinks there is no hard drive any longer. The first thing is to get the machine booted with anything that has Disk First Aid and Drive Setup on it (Disk Tools floppy, or a bootable CD). To boot from the CD, put the CD in and hold down the C on the keyboard then turn on the computer and keep holding C until it starts to boot. (make sure caps lock isn't on as it only works with a lowercase C) Then run Drive Setup and see if it sees the hard drive, if not, the drive itself is toast, get a new drive. If it does see it, update the driver (its in the menus). After updating the driver, reboot using your boot disk NOT the hard drive. After the reboot, run Disk First Aid and attempt a Repair on the hard drive. After that, the drive still may or may not be bootable. If it still is not bootable, try reinstalling the OS, that should restore it to bootable state. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 18 14:40:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: <200306181737.KAA14148@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <00b701c335d0$b1d67f00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Fastest NUBUS video card I know of is the Radius Thunder IV 1600, good luck finding one. Alot of that speed is from the built in DSP chips that accelerate photoshop. I have the plain supermac thunder IV without the DSP addon board and its not faster then the built in video on my Q950 for normal video (the built in video doesnt use the nubus bus so its faster then just about any addon board for normal video) The fastest 68k upgrade to a nubus non PPC mac would be a Rocket 68040/40 (or maybe a 50) nubus card. With either one of these options your transering data through the nubus slot which reminds me of the old ISA slots on PC's (SLOW AS HELL) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason McBrien" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:46 PM Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > My friend and I are collaborating on juicing a IIci as high as it will go. > Right now it has 128MB RAM, two SCSI disks (No floppy mod) a Daystar 100MHz > PowerPC upgrade card, and a fast Radius video card. I'm working on a fast > SCSI controller, and maybe a faster video card. > > What would be the fastest video card you could drop in a classic, NuBus > based Mac? I've got a Radius 24MXtv that's about the old equivalent of a ATI > All-in-wonder, all singing and all dancing, but drivers are impossible to > find. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cameron Kaiser" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:37 PM > Subject: Re: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > > > > > I like the LC 475 for it's compactness while still having a > > > powerful 040, and the 630 for it's extensibility. 56 MB of > > > RAM in a 68k Mac is just to good to be true. > > > > Yes, but I have 128MB in my IIci :-)))) > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------- personal: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * > ckaiser@floodgap.com > > -- New political correctness is but old fascism [writ] large. - Dr Digby > James From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jun 18 14:46:01 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC Message-ID: <11b.2442687f.2c221a6f@aol.com> In a message dated 6/18/2003 3:39:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, teoz@neo.rr.com writes: << Fastest NUBUS video card I know of is the Radius Thunder IV 1600, good luck finding one. Alot of that speed is from the built in DSP chips that accelerate photoshop. I have the plain supermac thunder IV without the DSP addon board and its not faster then the built in video on my Q950 for normal video (the built in video doesnt use the nubus bus so its faster then just about any addon board for normal video) The fastest 68k upgrade to a nubus non PPC mac would be a Rocket 68040/40 (or maybe a 50) nubus card. >> I have a Rocket card but never got it to work properly. I lucked out and was able to download drivers for it, but the system would get flakey after the rocket sound effect played. From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jun 18 14:48:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: from Jason McBrien at "Jun 18, 3 02:46:47 pm" Message-ID: <200306181955.MAA13576@floodgap.com> > My friend and I are collaborating on juicing a IIci as high as it will go. > Right now it has 128MB RAM, two SCSI disks (No floppy mod) a Daystar 100MHz > PowerPC upgrade card, and a fast Radius video card. I'm working on a fast > SCSI controller, and maybe a faster video card. > > What would be the fastest video card you could drop in a classic, NuBus > based Mac? I've got a Radius 24MXtv that's about the old equivalent of a ATI > All-in-wonder, all singing and all dancing, but drivers are impossible to > find. There's a particular Radius model that escapes me which blows the doors off everything. Again, drivers will be the killer here. I *think* it's the Thunder IV GX. My favourite accelerated NuBus video card, and the one I always try to get (Mike Ford knows my affinity for these), is the exceptional 8*24*GC. This monstrous card has a very fast 2D accelerated pipeline in addition to providing very good 24-bit colour. Screen repaints are extremely snappy, in addition to copies and blitting (I ran a benchmark against internal video using Snooper, and the results were very impressive). The bad news with the GC is that the control panel, which is required to enable QuickDraw acceleration, is notoriously finicky. It will only run 100% on System 7.1 or lower; on 7.5 and up it will cause screen glitching (probably some off-screen GWorld interaction), and I don't know if it will run at all in OS 8. It also won't work on 68040s. (However, all my 68K Macs in day-to-day operation are '030s or lower running 7.1 or earlier [except the NetBSD IIci], so this is perfectly fine with me.) By the way, I did try the control panel under A/UX once and I was VERY sorry. It took me almost an hour to dig it out of there since it made A/UX Finder system-error every time I tried to log in (a frantic Launcher shell session and some threats of violence later, order was restored). You, however, are in an interesting position. It has been said that the GC *will* be accelerated using the ATI PowerPC Graphics Accelerator extension under OS 7.6, and since you've got a 601-based IIci, you might be able to test this out. GCs are not that expensive, and even if you can't get the acceleration working, you'll still have a decent 24-bit card (without the accelerator, it's functionally identical to the Apple 8*24). Here's an article on that topic: http://www.lowendmac.com/video/apple8-24gc.shtml While you're at it, read all the LowEndMac video card reviews; they're very interesting. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The truth is out there. The speculation, however, is really out there. ----- From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 18 14:52:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3EF0DF0B.199.FD187284@localhost> > > > I like the LC 475 for it's compactness while still having a > > > powerful 040, and the 630 for it's extensibility. 56 MB of > > > RAM in a 68k Mac is just to good to be true. > > Yes, but I have 128MB in my IIci :-)))) Now tell me, a 25 MHz 030 on 128 Meg, or a 33 MHz 040 on 56 Meg, what's supposed to give you a better user experiance? Ok, if you use a bloated thing like unix, then maybe Memory is more important, cause it's already slow :) For a Mac, Made to work quite fine with 8-12 MB, 56 is basicly unfillable. Serious, if you had said a Quadra 950, with 256 MB RAM, I'd had to give in, but below that, nothing beats the 630/640 DOS. It has a huge RAM size and soppurts standard PS2 RAM (cheap), has an extended LC slot, so supporting Regular LC Cards and extended ones. Not to mention the additional communication slot for Networking cards and the video slot. Ok, it's not a 'general' slotsystem, but then again who cares? If I can plug in whatever needed it's all I need. I'm not that exalted to require my cards to be pluged in in alphabetic order :) > My friend and I are collaborating on juicing a IIci as high as it will go. > Right now it has 128MB RAM, two SCSI disks (No floppy mod) a Daystar 100MHz > PowerPC upgrade card, and a fast Radius video card. I'm working on a fast > SCSI controller, and maybe a faster video card. > What would be the fastest video card you could drop in a classic, NuBus > based Mac? I've got a Radius 24MXtv that's about the old equivalent of a ATI > All-in-wonder, all singing and all dancing, but drivers are impossible to > find. Nice, but wouldn't it be more interesting to get the best possible base (like a Q950) before starting the fine tuneing? If the engine is already weak, big tires don't realy change the experiance. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 18 15:03:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: <11b.2442687f.2c221a6f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001b01c335d3$ed75d580$347ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:41 PM Subject: Re: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > I have a Rocket card but never got it to work properly. I lucked out and was > able to download drivers for it, but the system would get flakey after the > rocket sound effect played. > http://www.lowendmac.com/radius/rocket.shtml Have you checked this article out? From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 18 15:06:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <00b701c335d0$b1d67f00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EF0E25D.2138.FD256778@localhost> > The fastest 68k upgrade to a nubus non PPC mac would be a Rocket 68040/40 > (or maybe a 50) nubus card. > With either one of these options your transering data through the nubus slot > which reminds me of the old ISA slots on PC's (SLOW AS HELL) Not bad, but clock chipping http://homepage.mac.com/schrier/mhz.html might be a cheaper and better idea (again the 630 is top notch here ... just move two resistors around and you got 40 MHz.... makes it 4 times as fast as a ci :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 18 15:31:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: <3EF0DF0B.199.FD187284@localhost> Message-ID: <002e01c335d7$d967b8c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I find my 840AV 68040/40 with 128mb ram to be pretty snappy, same with my Q950 (with server card + full cache simms) with 128+mb ram. As far as unix on a mac goes, will let you know in a week or so when A/UX 3.0 with full manuals shows up on my doorstep. I wanted to try A/UX out on my IIfx but with only 8mb or memory I would either have to find A/UX 2.0 or more memory for 3.0 (both are hard to do within $$$ reason). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Franke" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > > > > I like the LC 475 for it's compactness while still having a > > > > powerful 040, and the 630 for it's extensibility. 56 MB of > > > > RAM in a 68k Mac is just to good to be true. > > > > Yes, but I have 128MB in my IIci :-)))) > > Now tell me, a 25 MHz 030 on 128 Meg, or a 33 MHz 040 > on 56 Meg, what's supposed to give you a better user > experiance? > > Ok, if you use a bloated thing like unix, then maybe > Memory is more important, cause it's already slow :) > For a Mac, Made to work quite fine with 8-12 MB, 56 > is basicly unfillable. > > Serious, if you had said a Quadra 950, with 256 MB RAM, > I'd had to give in, but below that, nothing beats the > 630/640 DOS. It has a huge RAM size and soppurts standard > PS2 RAM (cheap), has an extended LC slot, so supporting > Regular LC Cards and extended ones. Not to mention the > additional communication slot for Networking cards and > the video slot. > > Ok, it's not a 'general' slotsystem, but then again > who cares? If I can plug in whatever needed it's all > I need. I'm not that exalted to require my cards to > be pluged in in alphabetic order :) > > > My friend and I are collaborating on juicing a IIci as high as it will go. > > Right now it has 128MB RAM, two SCSI disks (No floppy mod) a Daystar 100MHz > > PowerPC upgrade card, and a fast Radius video card. I'm working on a fast > > SCSI controller, and maybe a faster video card. > > > What would be the fastest video card you could drop in a classic, NuBus > > based Mac? I've got a Radius 24MXtv that's about the old equivalent of a ATI > > All-in-wonder, all singing and all dancing, but drivers are impossible to > > find. > > Nice, but wouldn't it be more interesting to get the > best possible base (like a Q950) before starting the > fine tuneing? If the engine is already weak, big tires > don't realy change the experiance. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 18 15:59:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 problem In-Reply-To: <20030616035324.LCAX27640.mxrelay1.pacific.net.hk@[202.14.67.80]> from "tmkwan@pacific.net.hk" at Jun 16, 3 11:53:24 am Message-ID: > Does anybody know how to fix the classic protable Epson HX-20? > > This is my part of collections, I know it's work fine before. When I tried to > switch on the machine last week, (it was after 15 hrs charged), the LCD didn't > show up and there was no response on the contrast wheel. But I still tried to > key in something, like "SOUND 10,10" and "LPRINT A", there was a beep sound and > the text printed from the mini-printer. Then I plug in the AC adapter again > and tried to switch 'on and off' many times on the startup switcher, the LCD > worked again. At that time I thought the problem is solved. Do you know that the battery is good? IIRC, on these amchines, most of the logic chips run directly off the battery (which is a 4.8V NiCd unit), but there's a little SMPSU circuit for the -ve rail for the RS232 port and the LCD. Maybe the latter isn't starting up correctly due to battery problems, or something. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 18 16:00:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jun 17, 3 07:37:57 am Message-ID: > Hello, > > I am restoring an 11/70 with a BA11-F chassis which uses 17 4.7"x4.7"x1.5" > 115v muffin fans (as they all do) and need to find a good source for > replacements. Does anyone have any suggestions? Are these really difficult to obtain? Last time I needed some, just about every _real_ electronics component supplier stocked them in 12V, 110V and 230V versions. The only problem was the cost! -tony From drido at optushome.com.au Wed Jun 18 16:00:23 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: References: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030619065412.0116b984@mail.optushome.com.au> At 06:47 AM 6/19/03, you wrote: >:-) > >Hmm, I've got some Ultima titles like that.. > >Audio hardware is a fairly typical old software/modern >hardware problem. > >FWIW, I've never had much luck w/ non-creative cards >being used directly by programs that expect to >talk to creative cards.. > >However, if you've WinNT/2000/XP in the mix you >might try this: http://ntvdm.cjb.net/ > >(VMware is also a EXPENSIVE possiblity - but >its sound drivers are not 100%) I've never used VMware. I've have tried Virtual PC and found while it does emulate the soundblaster the sound in most of the games that I have tried skips. There's a trial version of Virtual PC on the connectix site if I remember correctly. There's also a DOSbox, freeware as far as I know and supposedly optimized for running DOS games. I haven't got around to trying it myself yet. It doesn't support protected mode yet, but as Wolf3D runs on a 286 that shouldn't be a problem. > >You might also try to see if someone has ported >Wolfenstein to some other platform you've access to. >(The source was release quite some time ago) > >YMMV/etc, of course. > >David > >(Would a discussion of emulating 10yr old audio >hardware be considered on-topic?) From jingber at ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 18 17:24:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: What a crime Message-ID: <1055974729.5011.7.camel@netfinity> This type of stuff drives me nuts and seems to be a growing fad. Both of these systems had their internals intact before they were 'stripped' and discarded for this 'mod' http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3419834906&category=3669 and another here. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3419835704&category=3669 -- Jeffrey H. Ingber From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 18 18:34:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: What a crime References: <1055974729.5011.7.camel@netfinity> Message-ID: <002e01c335f1$60cacdc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I guess if the outside was scratched all to hell I wouldnt care if they were gutted. A cude in pristine running condition would be kind of expensive to gut like what he did. Where in that auction did he say they started off as full working computers (if its there I missed it). I personally dont go for the case mods at all, I would only repaint a computer if it had major cosmetic damage such as extreme yellowing and or deep scratches, cracks, etc. The stuff I collect just gets bigger storage, upgrade cards, peripherals, and such. I dont get into board hacks or anything that would keep it from going back to stock status. Everything I remove is kept incase I want to return it to the way I got it (original ram, HD, video cards, port covers, etc). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:18 PM Subject: What a crime > This type of stuff drives me nuts and seems to be a growing fad. Both > of these systems had their internals intact before they were 'stripped' > and discarded for this 'mod' > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3419834906&category=3669 > > and another here. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3419835704&category=3669 > > -- > Jeffrey H. Ingber From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 20:50:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Prime PT200 terminal capacitor values Message-ID: I got ahold of an old, nonworking, Prime PT200 terminal. It just displays a horizontal line in the center of the tube for a little bit, then a blank screen. The lighted keys flash on powerup, and the keyclick works. This leads me to believe that the the logic part of the terminal is still functional, and the video portion has lost vertical deflection. I took the back off and found a bunch of bulging, leaking electrolytic capacitors. Most of the capacitors are pretty common values that I was able to replace with some from my junk box, but there are two capacitors on the power module/board thing that are so corroded they are not even legible any more. I did my best to make out the values, but only one has any numbers visible at all. If anyone has the schematics, parts list, or a PT200 that still has good capacitors, I need the values of capacitors C19 and C15 on the power module/board. C19 _appears_ to be 1000uf @ 70v, but it's missing a couple numbers, and very corroded, so I can't be certain. C15 is so badly corroded that I can't even find any evidence of the original markings. Also, does anyone have a manual or any information about this terminal? There are two RJ-45 looking ports on the back labeled T1 and T2, and I don't know what they do... Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 19 00:36:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619003038.01992e70@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 08:12 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, you wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I am restoring an 11/70 with a BA11-F chassis which uses 17 4.7"x4.7"x1.5" > > 115v muffin fans (as they all do) and need to find a good source for > > replacements. Does anyone have any suggestions? > >Are these really difficult to obtain? Last time I needed some, just about >every _real_ electronics component supplier stocked them in 12V, 110V and >230V versions. The only problem was the cost! No, they are just fairly expensive, especially if you need to replace a large number of them. In my case, the fans in one chassis have seen enough weather that they have rusted and become frozen in place. I've found a source for about $10, but that is still a significant chunk of change... --tom From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 19 01:17:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Nice TRS-80 system, IBM PC available in New York Message-ID: Here's a guy selling a nice, complete TRS-80 (model 1) system as well as a complete IBM PC. Both seem very nice: http://www.visitcharlie.com/hallway/garagesale.asp There is a link for e-mailing Charlie, the guy selling the stuff. Send him your offers. I don't think he wants too much for these. No affiliation...please e-mail Charlie. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jun 19 05:11:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <200306181927.MAA12404@floodgap.com> References: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030619060458.00a6aec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> I've got some Sound Blasters and Sound Blaster compatibles that I'd be willing to trade for. Some ISA or Nubus parts might do. At 12:27 PM 6/18/03 -0700, you wrote: > > In a fit of nostalgia, I was wanting to cruise around "Wolfenstein 3D" > > and "Spear of Destiny" - I still have my original *purchased* copies > > from 10+ years ago (on-topic!). What I'm having problems with is > > getting the sound to work. I've tried in two different machines, > > the "odder" one being my A7V motherboard with a PCI Turtle-Beach > > Montego Bay II card (it has no ISA slots). I've tried fiddling with > > the "SET BLASTER" statement in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, but I can't come up > > with a way to get either game to see the PCI sound card. > >Were you able to find DOS drivers for this card at all? Or was it actually >advertised as being Sound Blaster compatible (specifically)? > >I eventually had so much difficulty that I went and bought a real Sound >Blaster 16 (Fry's still sells them -- even for ISA!). This went in my >486DX4/133 that I reserve for old DOS games. > >The Windows 98 machine around here does in fact have DOS emulation drivers >that make it look like a Sound Blaster Pro, which is sufficient for most >games to run on that, too. It's a bizarre AT&T specific card, although the >chipset doesn't look all that weird. > > > Are there any good sound card probe programs for DOS that could > > go looking for my card and prove it can be found? I know the IRQ, > > but being a non-Creative Labs card, I can't verify the I/O setting, > > nor the DMA channel, and especially not the "T"ype for the BLASTER > > environment variable. > >There was a program that Apogee used to distribute that did just that >(something like SetBlaster or something was the title). They might have >it for download, or it might be in one of their downloadable demos (I >think the Xenophage and/or Wacky Wheels games had some version of this). > >-- >---------------------------------- personal: >http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * > ckaiser@floodgap.com >-- "Another day, another dangling modifier" >----------------------------------- From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jun 19 05:24:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619003038.01992e70@mail.ubanproductions.com > References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030619061629.00a6ad00@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> There is a pull out in some Sun desk side systems that has about 9 fans on it. A system that size would sell for very little on eBay because with it's size and weight, shipping would be significant, hence very low bidding. Buy one and ask that they pull the fan modules, if they will, and viola, perhaps a lot of used fans for a pretty low price. At 12:32 AM 6/19/03 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:12 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, you wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > I am restoring an 11/70 with a BA11-F chassis which uses 17 4.7"x4.7"x1.5" >> > 115v muffin fans (as they all do) and need to find a good source for >> > replacements. Does anyone have any suggestions? >> >>Are these really difficult to obtain? Last time I needed some, just about >>every _real_ electronics component supplier stocked them in 12V, 110V and >>230V versions. The only problem was the cost! > >No, they are just fairly expensive, especially if you need to replace a >large number of them. In my case, the fans in one chassis have seen enough >weather that they have rusted and become frozen in place. I've found a >source for about $10, but that is still a significant chunk of change... > >--tom From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 19 06:55:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030619061629.00a6ad00@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030619061629.00a6ad00@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Mail List wrote: > At 12:32 AM 6/19/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > No, they are just fairly expensive, especially if you need to replace > > a large number of them. In my case, the fans in one chassis have seen > > enough weather that they have rusted and become frozen in place. I've > > found a source for about $10, but that is still a significant chunk of > > change... > > There is a pull out in some Sun desk side systems that has about 9 fans > on it. A system that size would sell for very little on eBay because > with it's size and weight, shipping would be significant, hence very low > bidding. Buy one and ask that they pull the fan modules, if they will, > and viola, perhaps a lot of used fans for a pretty low price. I think the idea is to *not* steal such parts from other systems. As for having 9 fans, IIRC they have 4. Often these fans are very worn anyway, as they've seen a pretty hard life. Maybe the best way to get these fans would be to order a case of fans directly from a company such as Nidec or Papst? -Toth From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jun 19 07:48:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: a lot of IBM 5100s for sale lately... In-Reply-To: <3EF0576C.79F84C2C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi all, there are quite some IBM 5100s for sale lately. I have seen 3 on Ebay in the last week. Do they all come from the same cache or is it just a coincidence? I'm just wondering since 5100s are usually quite rarely seen... Does anybody know more? Greetings Herbert From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jun 19 09:50:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: ASSISTANCE NEEDED (fwd) Message-ID: This email address is ONLY used for cctalk. SO, someone is getting addresses from this list. Jay? --fred ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:29:42 -0700 From: BASHER MOBUTU Reply-To: bashermobutu1@latinmail.com To: waltje@pdp11.nl Subject: ASSISTANCE NEEDED Good Day, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me. I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire, President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THEMOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 19 10:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030619060458.00a6aec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030619145901.68030.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mail List wrote: > I've got some Sound Blasters and Sound Blaster compatibles that I'd > be willing to trade for. Some ISA or Nubus parts might do. Assuming that I could get my girlfriend to allow me to rip out her sound card and put in a different one, there's the issue of PCI vs ISA. This machine has no ISA slots. The question is and remains how to play ancient DOS games that require sound on "modern" hardware. On my own machine, I had to disable the SBpro emulation device under W98 because it was causing my GUI to lock up after a random amount of time (minutes after reboot, not hours) - not the mouse pointer and keyboard, just the ability to select items with the mouse. This is with a Turtle Beach Montego Bay II card... Windows sound works just fine, but to keep the machine running, SBpro emulation had to go. I have solved the immediate problem with Wolf3D by grabbing an OpenGL implemntation of it (that uses my existing commercial maps). It runs just fine under W98, music and all (DirectX and what not). It does not solve the more abstract problem of how to play "Space Quest", etc. -ethan From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jun 19 10:38:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: ASSISTANCE NEEDED (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > This email address is ONLY used for cctalk. SO, someone is > getting addresses from this list. And this surprises you... why? It's a semi-public list, linked in many places, and has been for a long time. Spam is 40% of all Internet traffic (by moderate estimates) and they are quite diabolical at harvesting addresses. Any addresses. All addresses. Maybe we could barter with the Nigerians - they transfer the money to a consortium of Compter Collectors and allied Museum curators, and we would ship them 10,000 386 systems complete and (possibly) functioning, for the betterment of Nigerian education... Of course, they'd have to pay for the shipping and customs! Cheers John Mbange Sosumi III, Esq. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jun 19 10:40:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? References: <20030619145901.68030.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007001c33678$4610fe00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Your Turtle beach card uses the Aureal chipset which is THE most compatible PCI sound card for dos games that I know of. Are you using the latest drivers for it? Is there a hardware conflict by chance? How ancient of a dos game are you planning on playing? The very old games wont run on new hardware period because of speed issues, video glitches, and of course sound card problems. Try this site for game patches and the last drivers for all aureal cards (and generic reference drivers): http://www.vortexofsound.com/ They have a forum you can ask hardware/game related questions in. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? > --- Mail List wrote: > > I've got some Sound Blasters and Sound Blaster compatibles that I'd > > be willing to trade for. Some ISA or Nubus parts might do. > > Assuming that I could get my girlfriend to allow me to rip out her > sound card and put in a different one, there's the issue of PCI > vs ISA. This machine has no ISA slots. The question is and remains > how to play ancient DOS games that require sound on "modern" hardware. > > On my own machine, I had to disable the SBpro emulation device under > W98 because it was causing my GUI to lock up after a random amount > of time (minutes after reboot, not hours) - not the mouse pointer > and keyboard, just the ability to select items with the mouse. This > is with a Turtle Beach Montego Bay II card... Windows sound works > just fine, but to keep the machine running, SBpro emulation had to go. > > I have solved the immediate problem with Wolf3D by grabbing an OpenGL > implemntation of it (that uses my existing commercial maps). It runs > just fine under W98, music and all (DirectX and what not). It does not > solve the more abstract problem of how to play "Space Quest", etc. > > -ethan From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jun 19 10:55:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Displaywriter availiable Message-ID: Well, one of our local Goodwills has an IBM Displaywriter for sale in pieces. The CPU & monitor is one lot and the dual 8" Floppy disk drive is another lot. I could not find the keyboard or printer. they want $20 for each part if anyone is interested. Shipping would be expensive. If someone wants to look at it for themselves it is at the Centralia, Washington Goodwill. Too expensive by me. They may mark it down int a couple of weeks or so. Paxton Astoria, Oregon From CyndeM at vulcan.com Thu Jun 19 10:58:00 2003 From: CyndeM at vulcan.com (Cynde Moya) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: References works for DEC hardware Message-ID: Hi I am looking for a comprehensive reference works for (non-PC-board) DEC hardware. Things with the part number pattern like : 70-xxxxx-xx 10-xxxxx-xx 12-xxxxx-xx 90-xxxxx-xx I'm sure you get the idea. If you could let me know about print, online, official DEC documents, or even DEC microfiche, I would be very grateful. Cynde Moya, MLIS, PhD(c) Archives Cataloguer Vulcan Inc. www.vulcan.com Office Tel. 206-223-4901 Mobile Tel. 206.369.3205 Fax. 206-223-4207 From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 19 11:05:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619003038.01992e70@mail.ubanproductions.com > References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619110123.0198a240@mail.ubanproductions.com> I found a relatively cheap source of surplus fans at Pembleton Electronics, here in my home state of Indiana, so I guess that I am set for now... --tom From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jun 19 11:34:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: ASSISTANCE NEEDED (fwd) References: Message-ID: <008801c3367f$fa6b7a40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It is possible that a spammer has joined the list, and is harvesting addresses by storing the email address of each post. However, that's not real common for spammers to do that. This is too low volume (comparatively) of a list for them to benefit much from that when they can get millions of email addresses much more easily and quickly (newsgroups, buying lists, etc.). I'm sorry to say, and I know you don't want to hear this... but 99 times out of 100 when someone thinks that someone is harvesting email addresses from the list, that's not the case. They either posted somewhere else, or were victims of an address harvesting program on a website that talks to Outlook, that kinda thing. More to the point, I don't think there is anything that can be done to prevent this. We have exceedingly strong spam prevention as to this list - I know when I go through all the postings manually several times a day! Jay West From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 19 11:36:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: ASSISTANCE NEEDED (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? Message-ID: <200306191622.JAA02841@clulw009.amd.com> Hi The older archives can be found with a web search. Once found, it is simple to harvest email addresses. I don't think I got this one yet but then, they all look the same. For a while, you could just look for $20.5M but over time they have varied the amount. Dwight >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > >This email address is ONLY used for cctalk. SO, someone is >getting addresses from this list. > >Jay? > >--fred > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:29:42 -0700 >From: BASHER MOBUTU >Reply-To: bashermobutu1@latinmail.com >To: waltje@pdp11.nl >Subject: ASSISTANCE NEEDED > >Good Day, > >You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me. >I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire, President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THEMOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. > > From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jun 19 11:52:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Web archive addresses not munged was Re: ASSISTANCE NEEDE (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? In-Reply-To: <200306191622.JAA02841@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at "Jun 19, 3 09:22:46 am" Message-ID: <200306191659.JAA14206@floodgap.com> > The older archives can be found with a web search. Once > found, it is simple to harvest email addresses. I don't > think I got this one yet but then, they all look the same. Yes, the addresses are definitely available from the web archive. Jay, were you still looking into this? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Drive defensively ... buy a tank. ------------------------------------------ From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Jun 19 11:54:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: ASSISTANCE NEEDED (fwd) In-Reply-To: <008801c3367f$fa6b7a40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008801c3367f$fa6b7a40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <32819.130.76.32.20.1056041378.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> It is simply amazing how "ignorant" some people are to believe that any of this SPAM SCAMs are legit. You'd have to be nearly brain-dead to believe the Nigerian SCAMs are legit. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jun 19 11:56:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030619145901.68030.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030619060458.00a6aec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030619124504.00a30ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Ethan, for PCI, I'm using the Diamond Sonic Impact sound cards which I'd gotten a couple of years ago. They have the Aureal Vortex chip. I don't have any spares though. I'm not sure it will do what you need, but it might be a possible candidate. Probably find them on eBay these days. I'm sure glad I'd gotten a motherboard that still had a few ISA slots before such became hard to get. Even when I get around to upgrading this system, and the next motherboard might have to be all PCI, I'll still hang onto this one for a test system with ISA. Best Regards At 07:59 AM 6/19/03 -0700, you wrote: >--- Mail List wrote: > > I've got some Sound Blasters and Sound Blaster compatibles that I'd > > be willing to trade for. Some ISA or Nubus parts might do. > >Assuming that I could get my girlfriend to allow me to rip out her >sound card and put in a different one, there's the issue of PCI >vs ISA. This machine has no ISA slots. The question is and remains >how to play ancient DOS games that require sound on "modern" hardware. > >On my own machine, I had to disable the SBpro emulation device under >W98 because it was causing my GUI to lock up after a random amount >of time (minutes after reboot, not hours) - not the mouse pointer >and keyboard, just the ability to select items with the mouse. This >is with a Turtle Beach Montego Bay II card... Windows sound works >just fine, but to keep the machine running, SBpro emulation had to go. > >I have solved the immediate problem with Wolf3D by grabbing an OpenGL >implemntation of it (that uses my existing commercial maps). It runs >just fine under W98, music and all (DirectX and what not). It does not >solve the more abstract problem of how to play "Space Quest", etc. > >-ethan From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Jun 19 12:03:01 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: <3EF0DF0B.199.FD187284@localhost> <002e01c335d7$d967b8c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: A/UX Runs very snappy on my AWS 95. I'm waiting to get my network together so I can NFS it some more disk space. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > I find my 840AV 68040/40 with 128mb ram to be pretty snappy, same with my > Q950 (with server card + full cache simms) with 128+mb ram. > > As far as unix on a mac goes, will let you know in a week or so when A/UX > 3.0 with full manuals shows up on my doorstep. > > I wanted to try A/UX out on my IIfx but with only 8mb or memory I would > either have to find A/UX 2.0 or more memory for 3.0 (both are hard to do > within $$$ reason). > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans Franke" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" > floppies on a PC > > > > > > > I like the LC 475 for it's compactness while still having a > > > > > powerful 040, and the 630 for it's extensibility. 56 MB of > > > > > RAM in a 68k Mac is just to good to be true. > > > > > > Yes, but I have 128MB in my IIci :-)))) > > > > Now tell me, a 25 MHz 030 on 128 Meg, or a 33 MHz 040 > > on 56 Meg, what's supposed to give you a better user > > experiance? > > > > Ok, if you use a bloated thing like unix, then maybe > > Memory is more important, cause it's already slow :) > > For a Mac, Made to work quite fine with 8-12 MB, 56 > > is basicly unfillable. > > > > Serious, if you had said a Quadra 950, with 256 MB RAM, > > I'd had to give in, but below that, nothing beats the > > 630/640 DOS. It has a huge RAM size and soppurts standard > > PS2 RAM (cheap), has an extended LC slot, so supporting > > Regular LC Cards and extended ones. Not to mention the > > additional communication slot for Networking cards and > > the video slot. > > > > Ok, it's not a 'general' slotsystem, but then again > > who cares? If I can plug in whatever needed it's all > > I need. I'm not that exalted to require my cards to > > be pluged in in alphabetic order :) > > > > > My friend and I are collaborating on juicing a IIci as high as it will > go. > > > Right now it has 128MB RAM, two SCSI disks (No floppy mod) a Daystar > 100MHz > > > PowerPC upgrade card, and a fast Radius video card. I'm working on a > fast > > > SCSI controller, and maybe a faster video card. > > > > > What would be the fastest video card you could drop in a classic, NuBus > > > based Mac? I've got a Radius 24MXtv that's about the old equivalent of a > ATI > > > All-in-wonder, all singing and all dancing, but drivers are impossible > to > > > find. > > > > Nice, but wouldn't it be more interesting to get the > > best possible base (like a Q950) before starting the > > fine tuneing? If the engine is already weak, big tires > > don't realy change the experiance. > > > > Gruss > > H. > > > > -- > > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen > > http://www.vcfe.org/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jun 19 12:33:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: <3EF0DF0B.199.FD187284@localhost> <002e01c335d7$d967b8c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <002001c33688$2471dd40$347ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason McBrien" To: Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > A/UX Runs very snappy on my AWS 95. I'm waiting to get my network together > so I can NFS it some more disk space. > What version are you running, how much disk space and memory do you have? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 19 12:52:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <007001c33678$4610fe00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030619174805.62225.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > Your Turtle beach card uses the Aureal chipset which is THE most > compatible PCI sound card for dos games that I know of. Cool. > Are you using the latest drivers for it? My recollection is that under DOS, there were no "DOS" sound card drivers - you told your DOS app where the card lived (0x220, for SB hardware, typically), what its DMA and IRQ were (which varied from box to box), and the *app* had its own drivers. You typically ran a setup program for each game that you told if you had an 8-bit card or a 16-bit card, etc. In this case, Wolf3D is looking for a real SoundBlaster model and uses the "BLASTER" environment variable to find its resources. If someone here knows differently, please speak up. > Is there a hardware conflict by chance? I wouldn't expect so. It works perfectly under Windows. > How ancient of a dos game are you planning on playing? 1991-1994. > The very old games wont run on new hardware period because of speed > issues, video glitches, and of course sound card problems. Video and speed aren't the problem. The game plays perfectly except that it can't find my sound card and it resorts to sound effects through the PC speaker. :-P Part of the Wolf3D experience is the repetitious sound track. :-) > Try this site for game patches and the last drivers for all aureal cards > (and generic reference drivers): > > http://www.vortexofsound.com/ I'll look around. Thanks. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 19 13:00:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <007001c33678$4610fe00$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030619175520.98368.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > Try this site for game patches and the last drivers for all aureal cards > (and generic reference drivers): > > http://www.vortexofsound.com/ The driver selection page: http://www.vortexofsound.com/drivers/drivers.htm Does not have a drop-down for DOS. As I mentioned in an earlier message, my recollection of DOS gaming is that *each game* had its own sound card drivers, not the OS. I have a crate of old games: I've had an AMD/Intel PeeCee since about 1992 and did a *lot* of gaming on it (when I wasn't using my Amiga ;-)... It's trivial to get this working in an ISA-equipped 486 with an ISA SB-compatible card... the problem I'm having, to repeat myself, is with a PCI- only motherboard, a PCI sound card under *DOS* (not any flavor of windows). Thanks for the tips, on track or not. -ethan From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jun 19 13:12:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030619174805.62225.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 19, 3 10:48:05 am" Message-ID: <200306191819.LAA12052@floodgap.com> > My recollection is that under DOS, there were no "DOS" sound card > drivers - you told your DOS app where the card lived (0x220, for SB > hardware, typically), what its DMA and IRQ were (which varied from > box to box), and the *app* had its own drivers. You typically ran > a setup program for each game that you told if you had an 8-bit > card or a 16-bit card, etc. In this case, Wolf3D is looking for > a real SoundBlaster model and uses the "BLASTER" environment variable > to find its resources. If someone here knows differently, please > speak up. There are DOS drivers for some cards that add back SB compatibility. The "VCOS" card in my AT&T Globalyst PC is one of these. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Get out of the road if you want to grow old -- Pink Floyd ------------------ From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Jun 19 13:41:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:27 2005 Subject: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC References: <3EF0DF0B.199.FD187284@localhost> <002e01c335d7$d967b8c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <002001c33688$2471dd40$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: It's got a 1GB hard drive and 32MB of DRAM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason McBrien" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:03 PM > Subject: Re: Souping up Classic Macs: was Reading various format 5.25" > floppies on a PC > > > > A/UX Runs very snappy on my AWS 95. I'm waiting to get my network together > > so I can NFS it some more disk space. > > > > What version are you running, how much disk space and memory do you have? From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jun 19 13:45:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? References: <20030619175520.98368.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01c33692$3acc52a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I pointed you to that site because of the forum they have. Doing a 2 second search for dos I found a post linking to this: http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/kb_ftp/5752007.asp Montego A3DXstream: DOS - How to install the Montego for DOS only Note: These instructions are for a DOS only installation. If you have Windows installed, please see the Montego A3DXstream User's Guide for installation instructions. To install for DOS: 1) Create a directory "tbeach" on the root of drive C ("c:\tbeach"). 2) Copy all of the files in the "\ms_dos\tbeach\" directory on the Montego A3DXstream CD to the "tbeach" directory you just created. (There should now be two files, "asp4dos.com" and "vortex.ini" in the "c:\tbeach" directory. 3) Add the following lines to the beginning of your "autoexec.bat" file: SET WINBOOTDIR=C:\TBEACH SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D3 T4 C:\TBEACH\ASP4DOS.COM To change resource settings: If you need to change the resource settings for the driver, you'll need to edit the "vortex.ini" file in the "tbeach" directory. The following entries in the "vortex.ini" file control the resource settings. SBFMBASE Sets the port address. Valid resources are 0x220 or 0x240. Default is 0x220 SBFMDMA Sets the DMA channel. Valid resources are 0x0, 0x1 or 0x3. Default is 0x3 SBFMIRQ Sets the IRQ. Valid resources are 0x2, 0x5, 0x7, or 0x10. Default is 0x5 If you change the resources you must also change the "SET BLASTER" statement in your "autoexec.bat" file to match: A is the port address. I is the IRQ. D is the DMA. (Note that these variables do not require the 0x prefix.) Example: SET BLASTER=A240 I7 D1 T4 Montego A3DXstream: DOS - How to install the Montego for DOS only You will notice you need the driver asp4dos.com which you can get from your install cd, or from the latest drivers found on the www.vortexofsound.com site itself under drivers. I should also tell you that most dos games do not work if you set the irq over 7 period. I have been using a PC since about 1989 for gaming with a crappy new 286 packard bell as my first rig. Dont expect any card to sounf exactly like the original soundblaster would have playing this game (for one thing you dont get the hiss of the soundblaster pro 2 on a new soundcard). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? > --- TeoZ wrote: > > > Try this site for game patches and the last drivers for all aureal cards > > (and generic reference drivers): > > > > http://www.vortexofsound.com/ > > The driver selection page: > > http://www.vortexofsound.com/drivers/drivers.htm > > Does not have a drop-down for DOS. As I mentioned in an earlier > message, my recollection of DOS gaming is that *each game* had its > own sound card drivers, not the OS. I have a crate of old games: > I've had an AMD/Intel PeeCee since about 1992 and did a *lot* of > gaming on it (when I wasn't using my Amiga ;-)... It's trivial to > get this working in an ISA-equipped 486 with an ISA SB-compatible > card... the problem I'm having, to repeat myself, is with a PCI- > only motherboard, a PCI sound card under *DOS* (not any flavor of > windows). > > Thanks for the tips, on track or not. > > -ethan From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jun 19 14:10:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Web archive addresses not munged was Re: ASSISTANCE NEEDE (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? References: <200306191659.JAA14206@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <000f01c33695$bdcd9620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> aha... cameron is right... I had checked and seen the current mail archives are in fact cleaning out the email addresses, but now I see it's the old archives that don't have them stripped. Greaaaat. I will have a look at maybe writing some code to strip them out of the old archives. I find it hard to believe that a spammer would go through the archives just to get some 490 odd addresses, but maybe. It will take some time for me to strip the email addresses out of the older archives. What's the opinion - should I take them offline until they are stripped? Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: Web archive addresses not munged was Re: ASSISTANCE NEEDE (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? > > The older archives can be found with a web search. Once > > found, it is simple to harvest email addresses. I don't > > think I got this one yet but then, they all look the same. > > Yes, the addresses are definitely available from the web archive. Jay, > were you still looking into this? > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Drive defensively ... buy a tank. ------------------------------------------ From clarissa.compulsion at telia.com Thu Jun 19 14:26:00 2003 From: clarissa.compulsion at telia.com (Clarissa Compulsion) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: CompuPro M-Drive/H References: <20030619175520.98368.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <000a01c33692$3acc52a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <008201c33697$a3f945d0$75b443d5@magrathea> Hi, I'm looking for information about an S-100 card called M-Drive/H by CompuPro. Does anyone have any information about it or know where to find a manual or similar? The dip switch S1 is the most interesting thing at the moment. /Johan From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jun 19 14:29:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Web archive addresses not munged was Re: ASSISTANCE NEEDE (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? In-Reply-To: <000f01c33695$bdcd9620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from Jay West at "Jun 19, 3 02:05:25 pm" Message-ID: <200306191936.MAA14140@floodgap.com> > I will have a look at maybe writing some code to strip them out of the old > archives. I find it hard to believe that a spammer would go through the > archives just to get some 490 odd addresses, but maybe. It will take some > time for me to strip the email addresses out of the older archives. What's > the opinion - should I take them offline until they are stripped? My vote: offline the older archives until "clean" -- most people would be browsing the newer ones anyway. And you probably wouldn't be surprised at the depths some spammers go :-) Thanks for maintaining the list, Jay! :-) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 19 15:57:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Web archive addresses not munged was Re: ASSISTANCE NEEDE (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? In-Reply-To: <000f01c33695$bdcd9620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Jay West wrote: > I will have a look at maybe writing some code to strip them out of the old > archives. I find it hard to believe that a spammer would go through the > archives just to get some 490 odd addresses, but maybe. It will take some The spammers don't do it, but their highly intelligent, super-advanced web crawler agents do. All the man-hours put into writing programs to cull e-mail addresses could've solved the spam problem. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bofh at dh9dat.de Thu Jun 19 16:11:00 2003 From: bofh at dh9dat.de (Harald Husemann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Problems with HP LH Pro and RH 9.0 In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD61C@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> References: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD61C@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <200306192306.04686.bofh@dh9dat.de> Hi folks, I just bought an old HP Netserver LH Pro (got it for cheap on eBay), and tried to install RedHAT 9.0 on it. The system won't boot, the CD is recognized, but when the Linux bootloader starts, it ends up with an error message "Heavy BIOS defect detected". Hmmmm... I'm quite sure the BIOS is okay, since I was able to install RH 7.3, and it runs perfectly well. Any ideas?? System Config is: HP Netserver LH Pro, Dual Pentium 200, 128 MB RAM, Mylex Dual-Channel RAID Controller with 6 SCA-hdds attached, Matrox Videocard (on-board graphics disabled) One additional 2GB-HDD attached to one of the on-board Adaptecs. Anyone did this before?? Do I have a chance to upgrade the 7.3 to 9.0, when the inst. keeps failing?? Keep on hackin', and thanks for any help, Harald -- ======================================================= Dipl. Ing. Harald Husemann E-Mail: bofh@dh9dat.de www: www.deepthought.prima.de Projects: rawt.sourceforge.net From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jun 19 16:31:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: References works for DEC hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c336a9$73984dc0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I am looking for a comprehensive reference works for > (non-PC-board) DEC hardware. > > Things with the part number pattern like : > > 70-xxxxx-xx > 10-xxxxx-xx > 12-xxxxx-xx > 90-xxxxx-xx You can find online manuals by searching at http://vt100.net/manx but that searches document titles only. There is a scan of the Options Module List (aka the Dick Best list) but I don't have a pointer. Be warned it's 1000s of pages long and is scanned but not OCRd (I'm probably not the only one to have tried and failed ...) but if you can get it you may find it helpful. As for microfiche, there's plenty (just look at ebay) but noone has yet started to scan that. You can also fire up the usual search engines and just hunt for your 2-5-2 part number and see if anyone else has already asked (be sure to use deja to search newsgroups too). You can obviously ask here too (although doing some leg-work up front never hurts!) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From raico at fibertel.com.ar Thu Jun 19 16:58:00 2003 From: raico at fibertel.com.ar (Claudio Ramos) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Any help for the Bridge Challenger ??? Message-ID: <000801c335bd$2bed9f30$0830e818@elzodape> Need to know voltage and current supplies. I lost the AC transformer From tim at tim-mann.org Thu Jun 19 16:59:01 2003 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC Message-ID: <20030619002643.1441f215.tim@tim-mann.org> Fred Cisin wrote: > I haven't heard from Mike Gingel > in almost ten years; is anybody still in touch with him? I'm not personally in touch with Mike Gingell, but he has a web page at http://users.vnet.net/gingell/trs80/trs80.html with his email address on it. You can also download Hypercross and some of Mike's other software from the page. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From lothar.felten at gmx.net Thu Jun 19 16:59:18 2003 From: lothar.felten at gmx.net (Lothar Felten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: RA92 & HSC70 available in Germany/Belgium/NL Message-ID: <3EF1EBFC.8010506@gmx.net> Hi, If someone is interrested in RA92 (DEC SDI disk drive, 1.5 or 2 Gb) HSC70 (Hierarchical Storage Controller based on a PDP 11/73 in 19" cabinet, 1m high) please contact me off list. I'm located near Aachen (=Aken = Aix la chapelle) Lothar From Jeffrey.Hoke at rrb.gov Thu Jun 19 16:59:36 2003 From: Jeffrey.Hoke at rrb.gov (Hoke, Jeffrey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5 1/4" Drive Message-ID: Hi - I am trying to install a Teac FD-55GFR 5 1/4" drive into a Pentium 200 mhz computer. Upon trying to read the drive I get a "General Failure Trying To Read Drive A" error message. I have the drive connected to the end of the ribbon cable, and the drive is designated as drive A. Also, I noticed that there are some switches (I forgot what they are called - upright posts where you couple a pair together using a U-shaped something or another) on the bottom of the drive. How should these switches be set? Also, could my problem be that I am not using a correct BIOS? Thanks for all of your help. From Bernard.Simoens at pandora.be Thu Jun 19 16:59:54 2003 From: Bernard.Simoens at pandora.be (Bernard Simoens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: replacement Message-ID: <000801c33682$5b284500$a7845351@SIMOENS> I am looking for a replacement for the LA 4495 from Yamaha. This is a part from the amplifier of the CLP 360 piano Regards From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jun 19 17:22:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Web archive addresses not munged was Re: ASSISTANCE NEEDE (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? References: Message-ID: <002f01c336ae$ce2ef860$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sellam wrote... > The spammers don't do it, but their highly intelligent, super-advanced > web crawler agents do. > > All the man-hours put into writing programs to cull e-mail addresses > could've solved the spam problem. I'm quite aware of the techniques and software that spammers use to gather their information. I own an ISP/colo company and I admin quite a few mail servers. I am in the trenches every day fighting that stuff. Still, I will bet you "great gobs of money" that your address didn't get harvested from the archives of this list. Regardless... I took the OLD archives offline. The new archives (which do munge the email address) are of course still up. Once I figure a good way to get the posts scrubbed, I'll put the old ones back online. Regards, Jay West From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 19 17:43:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5 1/4" Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Hoke, Jeffrey wrote: > Hi - I am trying to install a Teac FD-55GFR 5 1/4" drive into a Pentium 200 mhz computer. Upon trying to read the drive I get a "General Failure Trying To Read Drive A" error message. I have the drive connected to the end of the ribbon cable, and the drive is designated as drive A. Also, I noticed that there are some switches (I forgot what they are called - upright posts where you couple a pair together using a U-shaped something or another) on the bottom of the drive. How should these switches be set? Also, could my problem be that I am not using a correct BIOS? Set the CMOS for the correct type of drive ("1.2M") Try to FORMAT a disk with it. Tell us WHAT BIOS you have, and EXACTLY what OS you are using. From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Thu Jun 19 17:49:00 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030618185204.8380.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Have you considered just running 2 sound cards in the system. I have a system that I use as an audio mixer for MP3's that has 2 sound cards in it. One I use to monitor and cue music while the other is the feed to the amp and speaker system. It is running W98 and has one SB Live and one Generic noname card (can't think of it off hand... it is SB compatible). Just set the cards to different I/O and IRQ's and you whould be good to go. I tried it by loading the DOS SB drivers in a custom config.sys and autoexec.bat for Doom and ran it in a DOS window and it worked great. Hope this helps, Greg Manuel -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:52 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In a fit of nostalgia, I was wanting to cruise around "Wolfenstein 3D" and "Spear of Destiny" - I still have my original *purchased* copies from 10+ years ago (on-topic!). What I'm having problems with is getting the sound to work. I've tried in two different machines, the "odder" one being my A7V motherboard with a PCI Turtle-Beach Montego Bay II card (it has no ISA slots). I've tried fiddling with the "SET BLASTER" statement in the AUTOEXEC.BAT, but I can't come up with a way to get either game to see the PCI sound card. This is after booting direct to the underlying DOS in Windows 98, so it's not a "DOS-in-a-Window" problem. Are there any good sound card probe programs for DOS that could go looking for my card and prove it can be found? I know the IRQ, but being a non-Creative Labs card, I can't verify the I/O setting, nor the DMA channel, and especially not the "T"ype for the BLASTER environment variable. Has anyone else tried running ancient software that wants to talk to sound cards on modern hardware? I expect to have similar problems with adventure games and the like, so I am looking for a general solution. "Try an older computer" is not a helpful suggestion. I am limited in how much physical space I am permitted to occupy at my S.O.'s place. An additional computer would cause a lot more trouble than it's worth. -ethan From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Thu Jun 19 18:17:00 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030619170001.63277.29403.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Here is what I did: Built a pure DOS rig that shares mouse, keyboard, and monitor with my P4 sytem via a KVM switch and patches into my Creative amp. Believe it or not it took a long time to build the perfect DOS machine (for me). My requirements were a system running Dos 6.2 with Dosshell and Win 3.1 that had sound and could let me play Red Storm Rising, the best game I have ever played on the PC. That machine is currently a Gateway 486DX66 with a SB32 AWE non plug and play ISA sound card, 12xCDROM, 5.25 and 3.5" floppies, and HD. Gateway has specs for the MB jumpers on all their older systems on their web site which was a great help. This MB has PS2 connectors for the mouse and keyboard which makes it simple to connect to the KVM switch. I also am using an ISA Promise HD controller that allows the systems bios to use a HD greater then 1G. Built it for cheap from parts found on eBay. The first system I built was a Pentium 233mmx with ISA and PCI slots but RSR and some other older Dos games would not run and the plug and play stuff was a nightmare for sound with DOS and Win3.1. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jun 19 20:04:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? References: <000001c33475$15590780$0500a8c0@srv2> Message-ID: <3EF25CB3.2080708@tiac.net> Seeking 3 gold links, or in a pinch, 3 stainless links for the band of an HP-01 calculator watch. Cash or vintage hardware offered in trade, please email me off-list. And no, the watch is not for sale. Nope, no sir, not a chance, forgeddaboudit, don't even ask. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 19 20:48:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? In-Reply-To: <3EF25CB3.2080708@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > Seeking 3 gold links, or in a pinch, 3 stainless links for the band of > an HP-01 calculator watch. > > Cash or vintage hardware offered in trade, please email me off-list. > > And no, the watch is not for sale. Nope, no sir, not a chance, > forgeddaboudit, don't even ask. Hey Bob, are you interested in selling the watch? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 19 21:00:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? In-Reply-To: References: <3EF25CB3.2080708@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030619215617.43ef1000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:39 PM 6/19/03 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > >> Seeking 3 gold links, or in a pinch, 3 stainless links for the band of >> an HP-01 calculator watch. >> >> Cash or vintage hardware offered in trade, please email me off-list. >> >> And no, the watch is not for sale. Nope, no sir, not a chance, >> forgeddaboudit, don't even ask. > >Hey Bob, are you interested in selling the watch? > >:) Hey Bob! Trade ya a power supply for the 1000 for the watch :-) Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 19 23:50:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030619215617.43ef1000@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > >> And no, the watch is not for sale. Nope, no sir, not a chance, > >> forgeddaboudit, don't even ask. > > > >Hey Bob, are you interested in selling the watch? > > > >:) > > Hey Bob! Trade ya a power supply for the 1000 for the watch :-) I'll name my first-born daughter "Bob Shannon" in exchange for the watch! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpdavis at gorge.net Fri Jun 20 02:05:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF2B0C4.9080602@gorge.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > > > >>>>And no, the watch is not for sale. Nope, no sir, not a chance, >>>>forgeddaboudit, don't even ask. >>>> >>>> >>>Hey Bob, are you interested in selling the watch? >>> >>>:) >>> >>> >> Hey Bob! Trade ya a power supply for the 1000 for the watch :-) >> >> > >I'll name my first-born daughter "Bob Shannon" in exchange for the watch! > > > How about I name my dog Bob Shannon and give you my second born daughter? Sorry, First daughter already spoken for. Jim Davis From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 20 03:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Still seeking OSI Challenger (any model) Message-ID: I'm still in the market for any model of Ohio Scientific Challenger computer. If you've got one to sell or trade, please contact me directly. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 03:10:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030620080519.5712.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- G Manuel wrote: > Have you considered just running 2 sound cards in the system. Two PCI sound cards? How does that help? -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 03:15:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Still seeking OSI Challenger (any model) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030620081057.70596.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I'm still in the market for any model of Ohio Scientific Challenger > computer. > > If you've got one to sell or trade, please contact me directly. Can't help you... I gave my C4P motherboard to Hans about four years ago. Never had the rest of the computer. I would just like to play with a C-III sometime... I don't really need to *own* one, but I'd like to play with one for nostalgia's sake - a family friend had one long, long ago (that he bought new, but was trashed when he loaned it out to a youth organization for education/training). Mostly, all I ever did with it was to fire up BASIC on, ISTR, the 6502, and fiddle around. I did help the owner optimize a program he wrote to help automate part of his job at the Gas Company - we rewrote the inner loop in 6502 assembler and called it from a USR() routine. I just remember thinking how cool it was to run multiple processor architectures in the same box. I wonder how hard it would be to build an emulator for it... each processor has multiple emulator code bases - the trick would be getting the I/O coded up enough to run the OS... oh, yeah... a copy of the ROMs and OS would be kinda handy. -ethan From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 20 03:16:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Bad experience with eBay seller Message-ID: I must relate a bad experience I had with an eBay seller. The account name is "rexbassdesigns". The auction in question was a lot of three Altair 8800's and an ADM-3A terminal. I was purchasing them for a client. The ad stated that the units were in "very good" condition. The seller fired them up and showed one picture with the unit on. The pictures indicated that they were indeed in "very good" condition, and the photo gave the impression that they had been stored in a good, clean environment. The ADM-3A terminal was described as "missing a few keys" but the seller said he might have a "replacement set or two". Upon receiving the units, I noticed right away that the machines were not as described. They looked as if they'd been stored in an outdoor shed or something. They had a lot of dirt inside and some boards had obviously been exposed to moisture over a long period of time. The ADM-3A terminal was a complete mess. The seller's description of "missing a few keys" was rather optimistic, as the keyboard was missing half its keys. Overall it was in terrible condition, having obviously been stored outdoors. The lot is not a complete loss; the Altairs should be able to be restored to working condition and cleaned up, and the price paid was certainly reasonable. However, the seller was quite misleading in his description, and the "replacement set" for the ADM keyboard turned out to be a spare keyboard from a totally different terminal, which of course is silly. I tried to explain to the seller that I felt he was misleading, but he was way too defensive for anything constructive to come out of it, so I informed him that I would simply have to leave him negative feedback, which I rarely do (this is only the second time, the first was because some guy up and disappeared and didn't send me the goods). I don't like leaving negative feedback, but I felt I had to in this case to warn others about this seller, as he's selling other old computer stuff. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2729439759 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jun 20 05:13:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Web archive addresses not munged was Re: ASSISTANCE NEEDE (fwd) ?JUNK MAIL? In-Reply-To: <200306191936.MAA14140@floodgap.com> References: <000f01c33695$bdcd9620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from Jay West at "Jun 19, 3 02:05:25 pm" Message-ID: <3EF2FA54.31748.55305D7@localhost> > > I will have a look at maybe writing some code to strip them out of the old > > archives. I find it hard to believe that a spammer would go through the > > archives just to get some 490 odd addresses, but maybe. It will take some > > time for me to strip the email addresses out of the older archives. What's > > the opinion - should I take them offline until they are stripped? > My vote: offline the older archives until "clean" -- most people would be > browsing the newer ones anyway. If Jay is going ahead to change it, I don't think a few more days will change anything. The archives have been already harvested a thousand times. Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jun 20 05:15:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? In-Reply-To: <3EF25CB3.2080708@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3EF2FA54.6883.55305B8@localhost> > Seeking 3 gold links, or in a pinch, 3 stainless links for the band of > an HP-01 calculator watch. > Cash or vintage hardware offered in trade, please email me off-list. > And no, the watch is not for sale. Nope, no sir, not a chance, > forgeddaboudit, don't even ask. So, ok, no sale, but for sure you might considere a gift toward poor (preferably bavarian) fellow collector? Gruss H. P.S.: I need finaly something Sallam doesn'T have tripplefold. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 20 07:33:00 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? References: <3EF2FA54.6883.55305B8@localhost> Message-ID: <000901c33726$25cc3250$5e62d6d1@DOMAIN> Original Message ----- From: Hans Franke > > P.S.: I need finaly something Sallam doesn'T have tripplefold. > You might want to check out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737531463&category=4193 ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jun 20 07:46:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? In-Reply-To: <000901c33726$25cc3250$5e62d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3EF31E44.8740.5DF6870@localhost> > Original Message ----- From: Hans Franke > > P.S.: I need finaly something Sallam doesn'T have tripplefold. > You might want to check out: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737531463&category=4193 Woooo-ha! Nice thing Mike, just, you shouldn't have told that in public, now everybody is jumping on that. Yes, I'd like to get my hands on there, alas, Sallam might already have one - I've seen to much stuff in his warehouse. Thanks H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 20 08:36:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Bad experience with eBay seller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I must relate a bad experience I had with an eBay seller. The account > name is "rexbassdesigns". The auction in question was a lot of three > Altair 8800's and an ADM-3A terminal. I was purchasing them for a client. ... > and the "replacement set" for the ADM keyboard turned out to be a spare > keyboard from a totally different terminal, which of course is silly. If you need a replacement motherboard for one, I see them out here occasionally, and I'm sure it'd be cheap to ship. Let me know if you want it or not. Of course, I'm sure you probably have one or two ADM's in your warehouse... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jun 20 08:46:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: APF (was: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch?) In-Reply-To: <000901c33726$25cc3250$5e62d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3EF32C65.10000.616967A@localhost> > > P.S.: I need finaly something Sallam doesn'T have tripplefold. > You might want to check out: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737531463&category=4193 As I said, it already left my price range :( Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From lgomez at cdromsa.es Fri Jun 20 09:44:00 2003 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (=?us-ascii?Q?Luis_Gomez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Acorn Atom eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c33739$c6c022d0$9600a8c0@Luis> http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737573399 From lgomez at cdromsa.es Fri Jun 20 09:51:00 2003 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (=?us-ascii?Q?Luis_Gomez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sinclair ZX Spectrum 128K with numerical keyboard in eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c3373a$cc6444e0$9600a8c0@Luis> http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737574468 From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jun 20 10:02:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: New Finds this week Message-ID: <012e01c3373c$56ed65f0$a708dd40@oemcomputer> Well things have slowed down somewhat and my only finds this week were the following at $2.50 each. Kaypro 1 Kaypro 2 (not the II) Kaypro 4 Several mousepads for that collection and some new old stock commodore buttons. From tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk Fri Jun 20 10:37:00 2003 From: tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk (Tim Challenor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: $BOUNTY$ In-Reply-To: <20030620081057.70596.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6D6BA5B2-A334-11D7-9071-000393DA5226@tcns.co.uk> Hi all If anyone knows where any of the following is for sale we will happily pay 10% of the purchase price as a finders fee. Alternatively if you have any of the following, we have cash waiting for any / all of these items: Data General Hardware: Paper Tape Reader and i/f 6070 or similar SMD/cartridge disk drive and controller for Nova 2 or 3 Dasher terminals (2) any vintage LP2 Printer and i/f for N3 TP2 terminal printer and i/f for N3 Data General Software: Any RDOS Any RTOS Any Nova diags Any languages Teletype: ASR 33/28 with PTP S-100 hardware: Altair 8800 CPU card any brand SMD disk controller any brand multi-std fdc S-100 software: Cromemco CP/M Any brand MP/M CP/M and MP/M languages and applications Other: Any tube/relay based digital kit Cheers Tim / Nick From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 20 11:29:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: VAX DSSI dyssentary? Message-ID: <001301c33748$5ab39f40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I have a 'new' microVAX 4000-200 here that has a few small oddities with it, and I could use some advice. Number one is that it will not boot. I tried 'b dia0' and 'b/r5:e0000001 dia0' and both times it's nothing until timeout. Number two is that 'show dssi' and 'sho dev' show no disks, nor the TF85. After some initial confusion where one or more disks were tried uncabled before powerup, the DSSI terminator was discovered missing, so I used one from another machine. My questions are, are there other tests for a disk besides booting it, and, what could be wrong with the DSSI bus? I tried other DSSI ID's on the disks but no real change. Do the ID's have to start with 0? A tidbit with the terminator off was that the countdown tests went from 95.. to 60.. and then autobooted immediately back to 95 without continuing down. I could have sworn at the time that 'sho dssi' worked then. Probably unreleted but FYI. TIA John A. From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jun 20 12:22:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619110123.0198a240@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030619110123.0198a240@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20030620171929.GA9316@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tom Uban, from writings of Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 11:02:24AM -0500: > I found a relatively cheap source of surplus fans at Pembleton Electronics, > here in my home state of Indiana, so I guess that I am set for now... It would have been easier and quicker in the long run, considering how long it took you to find a source for the fans, and the time it takes to purchase them, to have repaired your fans. Doh! :-) It really is a simple process to disassemble a fan and pack the bearings with new grease to make it spin freely again. ...but then, far too many people have become lazily wasteful, just replacing things rather than repairing them, then moaning about all of the pollution, toxic-waste and related resulting problems. Instead of learning a lesson from this, and then repairing things and keeping them longer, the dimwits look to more landfills and waste recycling, as the "solution" when proper "recycling," e.g. repair rather than replacement, could have prevented the problems in the first place. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jun 20 12:35:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Electron Microscopy Interface Boards Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030620131717.055e9d60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello, re:  Electron Microscopy Interface Boards If anyone has the following parts and wants to sell, I have someone inquiring. Matrox PG-640A R Bernstein Digital Instruments Digital Interface for Nanoscope II R Benrstein Digital Insturments SKY320-P-04 Best Regards From swperk at earthlink.net Fri Jun 20 12:46:00 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Strange problem with HP 9100A In-Reply-To: <20030620170001.74818.85199.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hello, I just acquired an HP 9100A in great condition with no signs of abuse but it has a strange problem: although the numeric input keys and four functions work fine, the transcendentals and other keys on the leftmost pad do unexpected things. When in the radian mode, many of the keys (like sin x, cos x, tan x, e^x) perform an x<>y, but even more strangely, in the degree mode pressing these same keys blanks the display and hangs the machine. After such a hang, when I cycle power the display lights up with 9.999999999 99 in the x register. Also, storage registers a, c, e, and f seem to work fine, but registers b and d return bizarre values. I've examined the machine thoroughly and find nothing obviously wrong or missing. I've reseated all of the cards, but to no avail. When I enter the program mode, pressing each key seems (on cursory inspection) to produce the correct key code. Any ideas? TIA, Stan From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jun 20 12:49:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030620080519.5712.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030620080519.5712.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1056131076.3110.5.camel@azure.subsolar.com> On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 03:05, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- G Manuel wrote: > > Have you considered just running 2 sound cards in the system. > > Two PCI sound cards? How does that help? Actually an ISA sound card and PCI one will usually co-exist. The trick is to get a non-pnp ISA one that you can set to the classic settings. Easiest solution is to do what has been suggested, setup a separate system just designed to play classic DOS sutff. I have a 486DX-2 with a good ET-4000 based video card and a SoundBlaster 2 for the sound. I have a couple non-PnP SoundBlaster 16's that I'm holding onto for a higer end system I'm planning on building for later games. Paul > > -ethan From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jun 20 13:02:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <20030620171929.GA9316@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619110123.0198a240@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030619110123.0198a240@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030620125006.03f57b58@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 01:19 PM 6/20/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Quothe Tom Uban, from writings of Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 11:02:24AM -0500: > > I found a relatively cheap source of surplus fans at Pembleton Electronics, > > here in my home state of Indiana, so I guess that I am set for now... > >It would have been easier and quicker in the long run, considering how >long it took you to find a source for the fans, and the time it takes >to purchase them, to have repaired your fans. Doh! :-) It really is a >simple process to disassemble a fan and pack the bearings with new >grease to make it spin freely again. Yes, having repaired PDP-11s back in the day for Purdue University, I am completely aware of both the pros and the cons of repairing muffin fans. In this case, the fans have a fair amount of rust inside of them and I some are just plain shot as a result. It didn't take me all that long to find a source and the price that I got on a large purchase made it all that much more worth while. >...but then, far too many people have become lazily wasteful, just >replacing things rather than repairing them, then moaning about all of >the pollution, toxic-waste and related resulting problems. Instead of >learning a lesson from this, and then repairing things and keeping >them longer, the dimwits look to more landfills and waste recycling, >as the "solution" when proper "recycling," e.g. repair rather than >replacement, could have prevented the problems in the first place. Sure, if the machine had been in my care in the first place, then it never would have sat in conditions which would have allowed the fans to become rusted. And the original boards would not have been sent to the scrapper for metal reclamation either. Fortunately, I have enough spare parts to make this machine whole again and I would consider that to be a pretty good case of "recycleing" on the whole. Does this still qualify me as "lazily wasteful" and a "dimwit"? --tom >-- >Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 20 13:22:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? Message-ID: AARGGH! Read Ethan's posts. He can NOT use ANY ISA sound cards, because the computer does not have any ISA slots. Period. So, can anyone answer Ethan's question about how to get a PCI sound card to work with a ca. 1994 MS-DOS game? -----Original Message----- From: Paul Berger [mailto:sanepsycho@globaldialog.com] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 03:05, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- G Manuel wrote: > > Have you considered just running 2 sound cards in the system. > > Two PCI sound cards? How does that help? Actually an ISA sound card and PCI one will usually co-exist. The trick is to get a non-pnp ISA one that you can set to the classic settings. Easiest solution is to do what has been suggested, setup a separate system just designed to play classic DOS sutff. I have a 486DX-2 with a good ET-4000 based video card and a SoundBlaster 2 for the sound. I have a couple non-PnP SoundBlaster 16's that I'm holding onto for a higer end system I'm planning on building for later games. Paul > > -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 20 14:00:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So, can anyone answer Ethan's question about how to get a PCI sound > card to work with a ca. 1994 MS-DOS game? Not to be flippant, or any more flippant than usual,... the ONLY way to get it to REALLY work right, is to replace the computer with an appropriate classic. From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 20 14:05:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 20, 03 11:55:58 am Message-ID: <200306201857.OAA06411@wordstock.com> > So, can anyone answer Ethan's question about how to get a PCI sound > card to work with a ca. 1994 MS-DOS game? Didn't anyone see the message from TeoZ yesterday? It had all the instructions needed to get his Turtle Beach card working under DOS. Cheers, Bryan From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 20 14:09:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Still seeking OSI Challenger (any model) In-Reply-To: <20030620081057.70596.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I would just like to play with a C-III sometime... I don't really > need to *own* one, but I'd like to play with one for nostalgia's > sake - a family friend had one long, long ago (that he bought new, > but was trashed when he loaned it out to a youth organization for > education/training). I've got a C-III. I got it at least three years ago but I haven't done anything with it yet. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 20 14:11:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Does anyone have 3 links for an HP-01 watch? In-Reply-To: <3EF31E44.8740.5DF6870@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > Yes, I'd like to get my hands on there, alas, Sallam might > already have one - I've seen to much stuff in his warehouse. I have the M1000, but not the computer component that it fits into. I've been after one of these forever. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jun 20 14:13:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Bad experience with eBay seller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > If you need a replacement motherboard for one, I see them out here > occasionally, and I'm sure it'd be cheap to ship. I might take you up on that offer, actually. A trade would probably be good. > Let me know if you want it or not. Of course, I'm sure you probably have > one or two ADM's in your warehouse... Try 3 or 4 :) But those are in my personal collection. The one in question is for a client. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jun 20 15:00:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? References: <200306201857.OAA06411@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <00a501c33765$c6784060$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I havnt heard back from Ethan, hope it all worked out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 2:57 PM Subject: Re: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? > > So, can anyone answer Ethan's question about how to get a PCI sound > > card to work with a ca. 1994 MS-DOS game? > > Didn't anyone see the message from TeoZ yesterday? It had all the > instructions needed to get his Turtle Beach card working under DOS. > > Cheers, > > Bryan From thompson at new.rr.com Fri Jun 20 15:04:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:28 2005 Subject: VAX DSSI dyssentary? In-Reply-To: <001301c33748$5ab39f40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Once you are able to see the disks you should be able to SET HOST/DUP to them from the console but you're obviously not there yet. Have you tried hooking the devices one at a time and doing a SHOW DEVICE? I take it the red 'fault' light is not coming on on the drives? Does your host even show up in the SHOW DEVICE? DSSI Node 6 (*) - or - DSSI Node 7 (*) Perhaps the full output of SHOW DEVICE might be helpful. On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, John Allain wrote: > I have a 'new' microVAX 4000-200 here that has a few small oddities > with it, and I could use some advice. Number one is that it will not boot. > I tried 'b dia0' and 'b/r5:e0000001 dia0' and both times it's nothing until > timeout. Number two is that 'show dssi' and 'sho dev' show no disks, nor > the TF85. After some initial confusion where one or more disks were > tried uncabled before powerup, the DSSI terminator was discovered > missing, so I used one from another machine. > > My questions are, are there other tests for a disk besides booting it, > and, what could be wrong with the DSSI bus? > I tried other DSSI ID's on the disks but no real change. > Do the ID's have to start with 0? > > A tidbit with the terminator off was that the countdown tests went from > 95.. to 60.. and then autobooted immediately back to 95 without continuing > down. I could have sworn at the time that 'sho dssi' worked then. > Probably unreleted but FYI. > > TIA > John A. > -- From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jun 20 15:30:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: What a crime In-Reply-To: <002e01c335f1$60cacdc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <002e01c335f1$60cacdc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <303ab0054c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <002e01c335f1$60cacdc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> "TeoZ" wrote: > I personally dont go for the case mods at all, I would only repaint a > computer if it had major cosmetic damage such as extreme yellowing and or > deep scratches, cracks, etc. My personal method is to use Araldite Instant Clear to fix the crack, sand it so that it's level with the rest of the panel, then use a fine paintbrush and some good-quality paint to paint over the Araldite. It should work OK. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 20 16:34:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619003038.01992e70@mail.ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jun 19, 3 00:32:23 am Message-ID: > No, they are just fairly expensive, especially if you need to replace a Ah, right... I know the problem, having started to restore some I2S image processor/display systems (9 fans per rack, and I have a total of 5 racks). At the time I was doing this, Greenweld had some surplus fans in stock for about half the normal price. I think I must have bought just about all they had. This is no help to you, of course :-( -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 20 16:35:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <20030620171929.GA9316@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 20, 3 01:19:29 pm Message-ID: > Quothe Tom Uban, from writings of Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 11:02:24AM -0500: > > I found a relatively cheap source of surplus fans at Pembleton Electronics, > > here in my home state of Indiana, so I guess that I am set for now... > > It would have been easier and quicker in the long run, considering how > long it took you to find a source for the fans, and the time it takes > to purchase them, to have repaired your fans. Doh! :-) It really is a > simple process to disassemble a fan and pack the bearings with new > grease to make it spin freely again. Not always... I mentioned those I2S machines in another message. Some of the fans in those had been powered for so long while stuck solid that the windings had overheated and burnt out. And the bearings were in very poor shape. Yes, I _could_ have rewound them, flash-tested them, and fitted new bearings, but it made more sense to buy a new fan.... > > ...but then, far too many people have become lazily wasteful, just > replacing things rather than repairing them, then moaning about all of I hope you don't include me in that! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 20 16:35:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Strange problem with HP 9100A In-Reply-To: from "Stan" at Jun 20, 3 10:41:52 am Message-ID: > Hello, > > I just acquired an HP 9100A in great condition with no signs of abuse but it > has a strange problem: although the numeric input keys and four functions > work fine, the transcendentals and other keys on the leftmost pad do > unexpected things. > > When in the radian mode, many of the keys (like sin x, cos x, tan x, e^x) > perform an x<>y, but even more strangely, in the degree mode pressing these > same keys blanks the display and hangs the machine. After such a hang, when > I cycle power the display lights up with 9.999999999 99 in the x register. This is a classic case of ROM address failure (or at least that's what I'd go for on a 9100B -- I've not been lucky enough to find a -A yet). Take the processor chassis out, flip it over. On the bottom, there are 4 PCBs soldered together. Across the back is the address decoder, in the middle is the ROM iteslf, down each side are the sense amplifiers. Most likely the problem is one of the transistors on the ROM PCB. To get to it, remove the sideboards that link the ROM to the gating PCB, then undo the screws and remove the complete ROM assembly. You can now get to the transistor connections to test them Take great care when working on the ROM PCB. It's a 16 layer (or so) PCB, and the layout is critical (tracks looping or not looping each other define the contents of the ROM). So if you rip out a via, there is probably no way to repair it! Note those transistors seem to be HP-selected so you may have to experiment to find something that works... If those transistors are all good, start investigating the circuitry on the address decoder PCB. -tony From TRUTHANL at columbus.rr.com Fri Jun 20 17:04:00 2003 From: TRUTHANL at columbus.rr.com (..) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Flamingo Wont Boot Message-ID: <002a01c33777$5a9b7800$6401a8c0@larry> No, Its Not because it has those long flimsy skinny legs! Really I brought my Flamingo DEC 3000 Model 500 Home. Set it in the basement and the thing won't boot. It had had DEC UNIX on it ....I had rescued it from from my former employer- it wasn't a PC so they could find any takers... Now the Panel cycles up and goes through a series of numbers Gets to #63 and retries 5 more times and then posts a couple of numbers in the 70's like 72... 74.... and then stops with DD lit in the status indicators.. It does all this without bringing up the console. ?? Any help out there???. I dont have the distribution media, or tape media for back- ups, for this machine If I could force a boot off CD? I have one CD which is an alpha version of linux called Potato? Any thoughts? I am in central Ohio. From skidmore at worldvenue.org Fri Jun 20 17:13:00 2003 From: skidmore at worldvenue.org (Barry Skidmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: MicroVAX4000/5050A drive sledsMicroVAX4000/5050A drive sleds Message-ID: <1056069959.1566.26.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> -----Forwarded Message----- > From: JOHN MCCANCE > just took a look at the classiccmp site and found the attached on cctech. > since i am not a member yet, could i prevail upon you to e-mail this > guy and tell him that i have one kit of what he is looking for. > complete with rails, backplane edge connecter, front panel and lun > plug cable, and a lun plug. free to a friend. would prefer the us or > canada. it is for a single drive such as the rf-70 series. > > thanks > > john > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > MicroVAX4000/5050A drive sledsMicroVAX4000/5050A drive sleds > Greg Elkin mailto:cctech@classiccmp.org > Sun May 4 01:29:24 2003 > Previous message: VCF Europa 4.0 > Next message: TRS-80 / System 80 > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > Just acquired a VAX 4000/505A (thanks Paul!) with no disks installed - > anyone got the details for adding a raw DSSI disk to one of these > things ; the chasis has a drive drive backplane at the top with 4 > edge connectors, into which a drive sled of some form slots in. > I need to knock up whatever is on the sleds, drive LEDs & switches. > Unless anyone has some excess sleds that I could liberate?... > > Ohhh, wonder if the MDS pils of docs has any details on this - off to > look now :) > > ta > greg > > Previous message: VCF Europa 4.0 > Next message: TRS-80 / System 80 > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > -- Barry Skidmore From tim at tim-mann.org Fri Jun 20 17:13:27 2003 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Using the PCI Catweasel in a Mac Message-ID: <20030619201013.2498709b.tim@tim-mann.org> Al Kossow wrote: > > Can the PCI version of the Catweasel be used in a Mac? > > I'll be working on this in the next couple of weeks, starting > from Tim's code. Cool, let me know how it goes. Be sure to start with the latest version; I just released v3.2 yesterday. Here are the challenges I see: - You need to scan the PCI bus for the card. I have two sets of routines in the code for that, one that uses an interface provided by Linux, one that calls into the PCI BIOS for use in the MS-DOS version of the tools. You'll probably need a third set for the BSD-based MacOS X. Hopefully it provides such routines. - You need to persuade the OS to let you access the hardware directly. If you can't do that, you'll need to restructure things so that the code that accesses the hardware is properly isolated in a device driver. - If there's too much else running on the machine, a couple of places where I spin waiting for something to happen may miss the event. This probably won't be a problem, especially if you use the default index hole to index hole reading mode, which waits for the index hole in hardware. Once you're done I'd like to look at folding your changes into my version. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From Milos.Bubenicek at renaultvi.com Fri Jun 20 17:13:45 2003 From: Milos.Bubenicek at renaultvi.com (BUBENICEK MILOS) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: cassette Message-ID: <200306200843.lC1p@memorvi> --- Received from RVIKAR.BUBENIMI +420465451457 20/06/03 09.43 Dear David Ward, I found on internet pages this msg. about data mini cassette PHILIPS LDB4401.I am very interesting to buy it (about 20 pieces).Please send me price for 1 unit and if is possible send it to our company to the Czech republic, if is valid your message from january 2003 (bellow). http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-January/007538.htm l Thank you for help - have a nice day Milos Bubenicek ---- 20/06/03 09.43 ---- Sent to --------------------------- -> cctech(a)classiccmp.org From James.Storc at offutt.af.mil Fri Jun 20 17:14:03 2003 From: James.Storc at offutt.af.mil (Storc James E Civ 55 CSS/ITT) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 Message-ID: <3D5C50DBBC62D411954B006008F5E87B30D9F3A7@off-msexchg2.offutt.af.mil> Ethan: Regarding your message posted on classiccmp.org from last May, did you ever find a taker for the Series/1 (or any parts thereof)? I've been trying to find a copy of RPS (Realtime Programming System) from such a beast, but to no avail (so far). Any info that you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Jim Storc ITT A/CD From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Fri Jun 20 17:38:01 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <20030620080519.5712.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: He already has one Turtle Bay card. He could add a SB card with the DOS SB drivers and such to get it working for the game in DOS mode. Greg Manuel -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 4:05 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? --- G Manuel wrote: > Have you considered just running 2 sound cards in the system. Two PCI sound cards? How does that help? -ethan From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 18:16:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Bad experience with eBay seller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8061DFB6-A374-11D7-81E3-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> I must relate a bad experience I had with an eBay seller. The account >> name is "rexbassdesigns". The auction in question was a lot of three >> Altair 8800's and an ADM-3A terminal. I was purchasing them for a >> client. > ... >> and the "replacement set" for the ADM keyboard turned out to be a >> spare >> keyboard from a totally different terminal, which of course is silly. > > If you need a replacement motherboard for one, I see them out here > occasionally, and I'm sure it'd be cheap to ship. > Wouldn't happen to have a motherboard for a Televideo 912, would you? I have a 912 with a good power supply, CRT board and tube, but the screen comes up with garbled/missing/blinking text, and when I run the self test it is pretty random what happens. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jun 20 18:25:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Still seeking OSI Challenger (any model) In-Reply-To: <20030620081057.70596.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030620081057.70596.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1827.4.20.168.109.1056151273.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I would just like to play with a C-III sometime... I don't really > need to *own* one, but I'd like to play with one for nostalgia's > sake You're welcome to play with one if you come out to Silly Valley. It's a C3 OEM. I did get a bunch of disks with it, but I'm not sure what's on them. Could be OS-65D, could be CP/M, could be something else. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jun 20 18:47:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: LIST OWNER/ADMIN - stuff happening Message-ID: <001d01c33785$b90b9d30$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Several things happening on the classiccmp server front.... 1) I'm looking into cleaning up the old mohnarc list archives, and integrating them into the current mailman archives. This would also include filling in the couple of missing months as well as scrubbing the email addresses from the old archives. The old archives are currently offline, pending me completing this task. I am going to try and put in a search function as well, and MAYBE a thread view. 2) I'm also looking into upgrading the mailman list software to the latest stable version. This has a whole bunch of new features - most for list admins, but a decent amount of new user features as well. See list.org and the 2.1 release for specifics. 3) One of the features in the new mailman is the introduction of the isolated list moderator role. Right now there is just the list owner, and the subscribers. To approve posts on a moderated list (cctech), or posts from non members to a private list (cctalk), the list owner has to go in and do this on each individual post (web based). The screens that come up for this also include list configuration items that a list moderator only shouldn't be able to change. With the new software, since there is a list moderator type user, that means I can solicit responsible people from the list to help moderate posts, without giving them access to system wide list configuration. If anyone would like to volunteer to be a list moderator, I'd like to get a few people to help after I get the new software installed. You don't need to know anything about unix or mailman, you just have to be able to use a web browser and look at each post and click "accept, discard, etc.". Ideally I'd like to get a few people that are spread across different time zones who are willing to do this once a day. If several people do this, the flow of posts requiring moderation should be a lot quicker. I am guessing that if we have maybe 3 moderators, it wouldn't take each person more than 5-10 minutes a day, or every other day. If interested, contact me off-list. The new version of mailman has some new spam filters. Spam is already caught for moderation, so these spam features would just make it less work for the moderator as to the number of posts to discard. If this works really well, I may not need additional moderators. 4) The server hosting the list has become... ermmm "cluttered". I want to reinstall the OS from scratch and everything along with it. This is partially to get current on all the packages used on the server (read: security reasons), and partly because the machine is just cluttered up. Yes, all the current archives and such will be maintained across the install of course. This DOES mean that the list would be totally down when I swap the drives, perhaps for 20 minutes. Of course I'll let the list know in advance when this is to be done. 5) The server is starting to swap (not enough memory), and the main data disk is about 60% full. When the server was purchased, going from memory here... various listmembers contributed around $220 bucks, and I paid about $200 out of my own pocket to cover the box. I would like to definitely upgrade the memory to 512mb, this will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $120 (maybe $20, researching). I'm also thinking about upgrading the data drive from 20gb to 170gb. This would cost about $99 bucks. Would anyone be interested in helping out with donations towards these? Either cash or the requisite hardware. Let me know off-list if so. Don't just go straight to paypal, I need to research a little further if the drive is required. I'll let the list know my findings then. Part of the reason for considering more disk is that the one there is a bit over half full, but most of it is because I want to mirror a large number of classic computer related files from other locations. And yes, the server that hosts the list is completely dedicated to classiccmp stuff, nothing else is on it. 6) Finally, I've got some ideas for things I want to do to the classiccmp website. I'm an admin, not a web developer, so I'm curious if there is anyone on the list who is willing to do specific changes to the classiccmp.org website. Most of the things I want to put there need to be done in PHP and possibly mySQL so being familiar with those is important. And finally, (putting on some body armor first), I'm in the mode of taking requests - so if anyone has suggestions for things they'd like to see on the website or changes to the list, please contact me OFF LIST. I'd love to hear any ideas you all may have for improvements. Depending on the suggestion, I may just implement it or reject it, or I may bring it to the list for discussion/decision as to if it should be done. Regards, Jay West From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 20 19:11:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: DEC DSSI SF73 FF/FSOT References: <002e01c335f1$60cacdc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <303ab0054c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <009f01c33788$e37b62a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I think I should mention that the container for 4 recently obtained RF7* series drives will be going to the trash if there are no takers in a week. If you're near NYC and want it it's yours. It's a rackable/externalizable storage enclosure. PSU and OCP (operator control panel) included, just no drives. I will sell some drives if you're desperate, not for cheap, but not for resellers' price either. John A. From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jun 20 20:08:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030620125006.03f57b58@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619110123.0198a240@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030617073750.048cdea0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030619110123.0198a240@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030620125006.03f57b58@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20030621010444.GB9316@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tom Uban, from writings of Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 12:58:45PM -0500: > fans. In this case, the fans have a fair amount of rust inside of them > and I some are just plain shot as a result. It didn't take me all that Ouch. Rust is not fun. At least you got to the system before everything was rusted out. Good luck with it! > scrapper for metal reclamation either. Fortunately, I have enough spare > parts to make this machine whole again and I would consider that to > be a pretty good case of "recycleing" on the whole. Does this still > qualify me as "lazily wasteful" and a "dimwit"? No, sorry, I can't say that you qualify for those. To qualify, you need to become more like the average person in the post-1970's U.S., or, better yet, the average politician. ;-) My remark was aimed more at our throw-away society in general than this list. Hopefully you were able to salvage some ICs from the boards before sending them off to the scrapper. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 21:00:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Flamingo Wont Boot In-Reply-To: <002a01c33777$5a9b7800$6401a8c0@larry> Message-ID: <20030621015606.43957.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- ".." wrote: > ...Flamingo DEC 3000 Model 500 Home...won't boot. It had had DEC > UNIX on it OK. I *think* Ultrix was the only OS commercially available (not sure about the later product named "Digital Unix" that was formerly OSF/1) > ....I had rescued it from from my former employer- it wasn't a > PC so they could find any takers... No surprise there. I do know a few people where you work, but I think if they brought one of those home, it would have sown domestic discord. > > Now the Panel cycles up and goes through a series of numbers... I don't know DEC 3000 specifics, but you might find some helpful info in the install pages for either NetBSD or OpenBSD. > I don't have the distribution media, or tape media for back- ups, > for this machine If I could force a boot off CD? It should either boot off of CD or at least the network > I have one CD which is an alpha version of linux called Potato? I am familiar with Debian "Potato"... AFAIK, your box has a MIPS CPU, not Alpha. > Any thoughts? I am in central Ohio. I'm just around the corner (working at another company in Metro Place, H&R Block, doing VMS), but I could always try to come over some night and puzzle over things with you. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 21:05:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <00a501c33765$c6784060$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030621020035.89550.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > I havnt heard back from Ethan, hope it all worked out. I haven't been in front of that computer in two days to test anything. Thanks for the info. I'll mention when I get a chance to give it a go (going camping this weekend). -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 21:09:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 In-Reply-To: <3D5C50DBBC62D411954B006008F5E87B30D9F3A7@off-msexchg2.offutt.af.mil> Message-ID: <20030621020442.93079.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Storc James E Civ 55 CSS/ITT wrote: > Ethan: > > Regarding your message posted on classiccmp.org from last May, did you > ever find a taker for the Series/1 (or any parts thereof)? Eh? I've never owned a Series/1. The closest I came was adapting my product (COMBOARD/3780) to *connect* to a Series/1 in an IBM network that functioned like an X.25 cloud, but under 3780 for transmitting EDI purchase orders. We had a customer who bought our VAXBI COMBOARD to move purchase orders to/from WalMart/K-Mart/DoD so they could continue to sell their product. I had to go to small-town Wisconsin to find out that they problems were on the *other* end of the wire. The other end was 100% IBM, but they violated their own protocol when they re-implemented it on the "newer" hardware. :-P -ethan From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jun 20 21:34:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: test - please ignore Message-ID: <001501c3379c$fbae35f0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> test From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jun 20 21:36:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Acorn Atom eBay In-Reply-To: <000301c33739$c6c022d0$9600a8c0@Luis> Message-ID: Please excuse any apparent rudeness, but 'bwahahahahahaha' - 150 euros? best of luck Luis. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Luis Gomez > Sent: 20 June 2003 15:40 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Acorn Atom eBay > > > http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737573399 From stantstk at pacbell.net Fri Jun 20 21:36:19 2003 From: stantstk at pacbell.net (Stan Glaser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Casio CFX-400 watch case?? Message-ID: <3EF3B256.A132BC6A@pacbell.net> Hi, Fred -- Searching all over the place, used Google, and came up with your name!! I have a Casio CFX-400 that has gone through 4 watch cases -- it started out with the silver case and was replaced 2 times, then about a year and half ago I tried the same source as the other 2 times and they were sold out with no place to go. I don't remember how I did it, but I DID find a source in the mid-West that had ONE more case left and it was the less expensive looking black plastic case -- I'LL TAKE IT, I screamed into the phone!!! Doesn't matter how much it costs!!! Well, now that black case has finally given up the ghost where the pins of the band attach to the case itself -- in fact, from stress, it has cracked and broken three times already in the same corner, and I've managed to fix it with superglue and once with epoxy (luckily I was able to find the small black plastic piece that broke off) -- but today it broke again, in a NEW spot, and the small piece that broke off is GONE, KAPUT, LOST, never to be seen again -- in a forest of dirt, rocks, pine leaves, pine cones, and just plain STUFF -- the piece that came off is probably less than an 1/8 inch in size, but IT was what was holding the pin into the hole!! I was wondering if you have ANY idea where I might find another case -- I've searched before with very little luck -- seems like this watch is definitely a dying breed, and it was one of their BEST!!! Thanks in advance for any info you might have :-) Stan Glaser stantstk@pacbell.net From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 20 21:38:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Flamingo Wont Boot In-Reply-To: <20030621015606.43957.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 20, 2003 06:56:06 PM Message-ID: <20030621023103.F0CC17F85@dittman.net> > > ...Flamingo DEC 3000 Model 500 Home...won't boot. It had had DEC > > UNIX on it > > OK. I *think* Ultrix was the only OS commercially available (not sure > about the later product named "Digital Unix" that was formerly OSF/1) VMS was/is also available. > I am familiar with Debian "Potato"... AFAIK, your box has a MIPS CPU, > not Alpha. The DEC 3000 Model 500 has an Alpha 21064A, not a MIPS. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 20 21:50:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: VAX DSSI dyssentary? References: Message-ID: <003201c3379f$28783480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I take it the red 'fault' light is not coming on on the drives? Just once, but it cleared. Here's the boot seq. I was talking about: "KA660-A V4.9, VMB 2.12 Performing normal system tests. 95..94..93..92..91..90..89..88..87..86..85..84..83..82..81..80.. 79..78..77..76..75..74..73..72..71..70..69..68..67..66..65..64.. 63..62..61..60.." (stops and loops back to the beginning for ~3 minutes... then:) "KA660-A V4.9, VMB 2.12 Performing normal system tests. 95..94..93..92..91..90..89..88..87..86..85..84..83..82..81..80.. 79..78..77..76..75..74..73..72..71..70..69..68..67..66..65..64.. 63..62..61..60..59..58..57..56..55..54..53..52..51..50..49..48.. 47..46..45..44..43..42..41..40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32.. 31..30..29..28..27..26..25..24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16.. 15..14..13..12..11..10..09..08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed." (came up to temperature...perhaps?) Wonder what test 59 is and what a failure there signified? > Does your host even show up in the SHOW DEVICE? > DSSI Node 7 (*) Yes, like that. > Perhaps the full output of SHOW DEVICE might be helpful. Here: ">>>sho dev DSSI Bus 0 Node 7 (*) UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500) -? Ethernet Adapter -EZA0 (08-mac..mac-F7)" The "-?" looks wierd. sho dssi, again, showed no tape. nothin' but controller. thx for responding. John A. From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Jun 21 01:19:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Flamingo Wont Boot Message-ID: <200306210614.h5L6EGMP004903@io.crash.com> >> Flamingo DEC 3000 Model 500 Home...won't boot. ... had DEC UNIX . > OK. I *think* Ultrix was the only OS commercially available (not sure > about the later product named "Digital Unix" that was formerly OSF/1) Ultrix was never commercially available on Alpha hardware, AFAIK. As Eric Dittman pointed out, VMS was available in addition to Digital Unix. Ultrix was based on 4BSD; Digital Unix was based on OSF/1, one of the less successful offerings from the very misleadingly named (in today's context) Open Software Foundation. While their Motif GUI was widespread, OSF/1 was not - in fact it's a good trivia question to ask who aside from DEC ever shipped it. (Intel Paragon. AIX/ESA? Encore?) Anyway, I checked and I don't have docs for this model. But just yesterday I dragged out my 3000/300LX and had to reseat the memory before the machine would behave... Good luck, --Steve. smj(at)spamfree.crash.com (lose spamfree to get through, m'kay?) From aek at spies.com Sat Jun 21 01:25:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Using the PCI Catweasel in a Mac Message-ID: <200306210623.h5L6NQB4002726@spies.com> > Here are the challenges I see: > You need to scan the PCI bus for the card. > You need to persuade the OS to let you access the hardware directly. I was going to do this under OS9, since I already have code to do the device tree scanning, and there isn't a problem touching hardware directly :-) From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jun 21 01:47:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Flamingo Wont Boot In-Reply-To: <20030621015606.43957.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <002a01c33777$5a9b7800$6401a8c0@larry> <20030621015606.43957.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40855.64.169.63.74.1056177766.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> ...Flamingo DEC 3000 Model 500 Home...won't boot. It had had DEC >> UNIX on it > OK. I *think* Ultrix was the only OS commercially available (not sure > about the later product named "Digital Unix" that was formerly OSF/1) No, Ultrix was only available for the PDP-11, VAX, and MIPS. On Alpha, they went from OSF/1 to Digital Unix to Tru64. > AFAIK, your box has a MIPS CPU, not Alpha. You must be thinking of a DECstation. That's an entirely different beast. From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 21 03:36:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030621183041.0125a3a4@mail.optushome.com.au> At 12:17 PM 6/20/03 -0600, you wrote: >AARGGH! > >Read Ethan's posts. He can NOT use ANY ISA sound cards, because the computer does not have any ISA slots. Period. > >So, can anyone answer Ethan's question about how to get a PCI sound card to work with a ca. 1994 MS-DOS game? What about using a PC emulator? I run DOS inside Windows using Virtual PC and sound works, though it does skip in some games. There are other PC emulators that I haven't tried yet. Bochs and DOSbox comes to mind. DOSbox may be the better one to try as it's freeware (as far as I know) and is designed specifically to run DOS games on Windows PCs. A known limitation is that it currently does not support 32 bit protected mode, but for wolf 3d and other pre DOS4GW games this shouldn't be a problem. I'll get around to trying it one of these days. If the 2 cards will coexist or he's willing to replace his current card it may be worth looking for a SB PCI64. I use one and compatibility with older software is usually pretty good. From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 21 03:47:01 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: IBM PC3270 (5271) keyboard connector? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030621184229.0125a3a4@mail.optushome.com.au> I just picked up an IBM PC3270 with the 122 key keyboard. The 122 key keyboard has a 5 pin connector, but the pins are in different positions so it won't plug into to the keyboard socket as is. I assume there is an adapter that it usually included. Does anyone have the pinout? It does boot with a standard XT keyboard, but give a 302 error. It would be nice to use the original keyboard if I can. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 21 04:02:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? References: <3.0.3.32.20030621183041.0125a3a4@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <000c01c337d3$100fbd80$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Emulators usually choke on games because of shortcuts in programming and the demands of graphics and sound. If you just want to play a game or 2 its not bad IF the emulator works with that game, but for anybody who wants to play alot of dos games you have to use a vintage computer with vintage sound and video cards. Some people have enough problems WITH vintage equipment because of irq conflicts, wrong sound card, cpu is too fast, using old cyrix chips, memory configuration or amount etc. I went to the extreme and made 2 DOS machines, one for later games and one for the real early games. I still dont have the ancient 80's CGA games covered but I dont care about that period that much since my C64/C128 and Amiga 500 had better games in that time period. Considering what 386/486 systems cost these days (pretty much free on the curb, or VERY cheap on ebay if you dont have to ship), I say if your into it go get the equipment to do the job. You would be surprised how nice the games look, sound, and play on a newer 19" or above monitor and some good speakers. I use a KVM with sound switching on my 4 game rigs so I dont have to mess with switching cables and wires, or having multiple monitors, keayboards, and mice. Classic games are still alot of fun to play. TZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Ido" To: Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 3:30 AM Subject: RE: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? > At 12:17 PM 6/20/03 -0600, you wrote: > >AARGGH! > > > >Read Ethan's posts. He can NOT use ANY ISA sound cards, because the > computer does not have any ISA slots. Period. > > > >So, can anyone answer Ethan's question about how to get a PCI sound card > to work with a ca. 1994 MS-DOS game? > > What about using a PC emulator? I run DOS inside Windows using Virtual PC > and sound works, though it does skip in some games. > There are other PC emulators that I haven't tried yet. Bochs and DOSbox > comes to mind. DOSbox may be the better one to try as it's freeware (as > far as I know) and is designed specifically to run DOS games on Windows > PCs. A known limitation is that it currently does not support 32 bit > protected mode, but for wolf 3d and other pre DOS4GW games this shouldn't > be a problem. I'll get around to trying it one of these days. > > If the 2 cards will coexist or he's willing to replace his current card it > may be worth looking for a SB PCI64. I use one and compatibility with > older software is usually pretty good. From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 21 04:22:01 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? In-Reply-To: <000c01c337d3$100fbd80$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3.0.3.32.20030621183041.0125a3a4@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030621191703.0125c868@mail.optushome.com.au> At 04:56 AM 6/21/03 -0400, you wrote: >Emulators usually choke on games because of shortcuts in programming and the >demands of graphics and sound. If you just want to play a game or 2 its not >bad IF the emulator works with that game, but for anybody who wants to play >alot of dos games you have to use a vintage computer with vintage sound and >video cards. Some people have enough problems WITH vintage equipment because >of irq conflicts, wrong sound card, cpu is too fast, using old cyrix chips, >memory configuration or amount etc. > >I went to the extreme and made 2 DOS machines, one for later games and one >for the real early games. I still dont have the ancient 80's CGA games >covered but I dont care about that period that much since my C64/C128 and >Amiga 500 had better games in that time period. > >Considering what 386/486 systems cost these days (pretty much free on the >curb, or VERY cheap on ebay if you dont have to ship), I say if your into it >go get the equipment to do the job. > >You would be surprised how nice the games look, sound, and play on a newer >19" or above monitor and some good speakers. I use a KVM with sound >switching on my 4 game rigs so I dont have to mess with switching cables and >wires, or having multiple monitors, keayboards, and mice. Classic games are >still alot of fun to play. I take the original machine approach myself. I only usually use the emulators to take screenshots, or to quickly check if something runs before going to the trouble copying to the older machines (my oldest DOS boxes aren't on my network yet). I've still got a P166 and a 486-66 set up here and many others stacked in the spare room. I still haven't worked out a way to integrate my Tandy 1000RL into the rack yet, though. I think it's the best system for early 80s PC games as a lot of them supported it's 16 color graphics and 3 voice sound. I think it's the nicest of the Tandy 1000s as it has PS/2 keyboard/mouse connectors, IDE and it's a tiny little box. Still haven't worked out how to convert it's RGBI output into something my 21" monitor will display though. I only mentioned the emulators as the original poster asking the question said finding space for a pure DOS machine was out of the question. If he's case is big enough maybe he could install it in the same case as the current system? :) I've got some tiny 486-100 all in one mobos from POS systems that still have 2 ISA slots.. enough for the all important SB16 and a NIC. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jun 21 04:34:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Flamingo Wont Boot In-Reply-To: <002a01c33777$5a9b7800$6401a8c0@larry>; from TRUTHANL@columbus.rr.com on Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 00:00:20 CEST References: <002a01c33777$5a9b7800$6401a8c0@larry> Message-ID: <20030621101410.M288835@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.21 00:00 .. wrote: > Really I brought my Flamingo DEC 3000 Model 500 Home. [...] > Now the Panel cycles up and goes through a series of numbers [...] > and then stops with DD lit in the status indicators. I have a DEC 3000-600 with the same problem. It run well up to the day when I upgraded the RAM from 128 MB ot 192 MB. Power up, some numbers flickering on the LEDs on the back and it stops at 0xDD. I reversed my modifications but still 0xDD. :-((( Maybe you should carefully reseat everything on the RAM boards. Note that a RAM bank consists out of 8 SIMMs. > I dont have the distribution media, or tape media for > back- ups, for this machine If I could force a boot off CD? You can get a hobbyist license and distribution media for OpenVMS (free) or Tru64 UNIX ($99) from DEC^WCompaq^WHP. But AFAIK the latest Tru64 version doesn't support the DEC 3000 any more. > I have one CD which is an alpha version of linux called Potato? Linux does not run on the old Turbochannel Alphas. But NetBSD does very well if you want a free Unix. There is a link to a ftp site on the port Alpha page with various docs on Alpha CPUs and machines. http://www.netbsd.org/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 21 04:50:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? References: <3.0.3.32.20030621183041.0125a3a4@mail.optushome.com.au> <3.0.3.32.20030621191703.0125c868@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <002301c337d9$d5d76580$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I also make sure that for later dos games my video card does all the necessary video modes (VESA) without having to use drivers. I use a Riva 128 4mb card (PCI) and it does all the VESA modes without a driver. My 386 has a Tseng (diamond speedstar 1mb ISA) ET 3000ax or 4000 cant remember, works fine with the older games. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Ido" To: Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 4:17 AM Subject: Re: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? > At 04:56 AM 6/21/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Emulators usually choke on games because of shortcuts in programming and the > >demands of graphics and sound. If you just want to play a game or 2 its not > >bad IF the emulator works with that game, but for anybody who wants to play > >alot of dos games you have to use a vintage computer with vintage sound and > >video cards. Some people have enough problems WITH vintage equipment because > >of irq conflicts, wrong sound card, cpu is too fast, using old cyrix chips, > >memory configuration or amount etc. > > > >I went to the extreme and made 2 DOS machines, one for later games and one > >for the real early games. I still dont have the ancient 80's CGA games > >covered but I dont care about that period that much since my C64/C128 and > >Amiga 500 had better games in that time period. > > > >Considering what 386/486 systems cost these days (pretty much free on the > >curb, or VERY cheap on ebay if you dont have to ship), I say if your into it > >go get the equipment to do the job. > > > >You would be surprised how nice the games look, sound, and play on a newer > >19" or above monitor and some good speakers. I use a KVM with sound > >switching on my 4 game rigs so I dont have to mess with switching cables and > >wires, or having multiple monitors, keayboards, and mice. Classic games are > >still alot of fun to play. > > I take the original machine approach myself. I only usually use the > emulators to take screenshots, or to quickly check if something runs before > going to the trouble copying to the older machines (my oldest DOS boxes > aren't on my network yet). I've still got a P166 and a 486-66 set up here > and many others stacked in the spare room. I still haven't worked out a > way to integrate my Tandy 1000RL into the rack yet, though. I think it's > the best system for early 80s PC games as a lot of them supported it's 16 > color graphics and 3 voice sound. I think it's the nicest of the Tandy > 1000s as it has PS/2 keyboard/mouse connectors, IDE and it's a tiny little > box. Still haven't worked out how to convert it's RGBI output into > something my 21" monitor will display though. > > I only mentioned the emulators as the original poster asking the question > said finding space for a pure DOS machine was out of the question. > > If he's case is big enough maybe he could install it in the same case as > the current system? :) > I've got some tiny 486-100 all in one mobos from POS systems that still > have 2 ISA slots.. enough for the all important SB16 and a NIC. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Jun 21 08:03:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Computerized Music Gear On eBay Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> I remember someone was interested in music gear. Don't know if you'd consider this worth the asking price or not, but it looks like a nice set. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2539449598&category=38071 From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jun 21 09:11:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Flamingo Wont Boot In-Reply-To: <20030621015606.43957.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- ".." wrote: > > ...Flamingo DEC 3000 Model 500 Home...won't boot. It had had DEC > > UNIX on it > > OK. I *think* Ultrix was the only OS commercially available (not sure > about the later product named "Digital Unix" that was formerly OSF/1) Umm, the DEC 3000s were Alphas, not MIPS (not a DECstation). So, you can run Linux, Net/OpenBSD (FreeBSD?), Digital Unix/Tru64, and VMS on them. I've got my 3000/600 at work running VMS right now... > > Any thoughts? I am in central Ohio. > > I'm just around the corner (working at another company in Metro Place, > H&R Block, doing VMS), but I could always try to come over some night > and puzzle over things with you. One thing to check is that you're using the right console line - check/togle S3 on the back. which goes between serial and video console. If you're using a serial console, make sure it's connected to the MMJ and wired properly. I thought I couldn't get my machine working until I realized that I had RX+/RX- and TX+/TX- reversed on the cable I made. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jun 21 11:03:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Cleaning the basement, stuff for sale (cheap) Message-ID: <3CCEA2E4-A401-11D7-81E3-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Now that school is over, I have more time to work on classic computers, but first I really need to reduce the clutter in the basement/workshop. I have accumulated a lot of spare parts and duplicate machines over the last few years, and I really don't need them, and I would like to reclaim some of my space to make room for more interesting things. So, here is a partial list of stuff that I would like to sell. NOTE: All prices are just suggestions, no reasonable offer refused. I am not trying to make money here. Buyer to pay actual shipping charges from ZIP 12309 Everything is tested and working, and in pretty good condition unless noted. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Macintosh ADB keyboards - I have lots of these and lots of different models, if you want a specific model, just ask; I probably have it. I'll also include a cable - $3 Macintosh ADB mice - $1 Macintosh ADB cables - 50 cents Apple IIgs keyboards - $3 Apple Disk II disk drives - $5 Apple UniDisk 5.25 drives, both beige and platinum colored - $3 Apple 800k external 3 1/2" floppy drives - $5 Apple IIe computers, both regular and extended models - $6 Apple IIgs computers, both ROM 1 and ROM 3 models. Includes keyboard and mouse - $8 Macintosh Plus computer, 4mb RAM, with keyboard and mouse - $10 Macintosh SE computer, 4mb RAM, 40 meg hard drive, with keyboard and mouse - $10 Macintosh Classic II computer, 4mb RAM, 80 meg hard drive, with keyboard and mouse - $10 Macintosh LC II and LC III computers, I think these have 80 meg hard drives, and I forget how much RAM. I'll check if you want. No keyboard or mouse - $3 Macintosh 1.44 meg auto inject floppy drive - cleaned, lubricated and tested - $4 Tri-color ribbons for Apple ImageWriter II printers. New, sealed - $1 DEC VT-220 terminals. These are rather used and somewhat yellowed, but they have been very well cleaned and work well. Some have light screen burn. They were used in a school for a time, and have had the school graffiti cleaned off of them, but some still have faint traces. Also, on the backs, they have some engraved numbers. Includes keyboard. Available with green, amber or white video tubes - $15 DEC LK-201 keyboards - These were used in a school for a time, and have had the old markings cleaned off. All keys and the cable are present and accounted for, and all keys work. - $5 Computer power cords - 25 cents PC 3 1/2" floppy drives - $2 PC 5 1/4" floppy drives (1.2 meg) - $1 AT style PC keyboards - $1 AT style PC power supplies - $2 486 computers - $5 80 megabyte SCSI hard drives - $2 I also have some random extra parts for many models of old Macintosh computers, as well as for older x86 PC's. If you are looking for something that isn't listed, don't hesitate to ask, I might have one. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 21 13:02:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: IBM PC3270 (5271) keyboard connector? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030621184229.0125a3a4@mail.optushome.com.au> from "Dr. Ido" at Jun 21, 3 06:42:29 pm Message-ID: > I just picked up an IBM PC3270 with the 122 key keyboard. The 122 key > keyboard has a 5 pin connector, but the pins are in different positions so > it won't plug into to the keyboard socket as is. I assume there is an > adapter that it usually included. Does anyone have the pinout? > > It does boot with a standard XT keyboard, but give a 302 error. It would > be nice to use the original keyboard if I can. I can't rememebr if it's this machine, but one of the more 'exotic' original PCs has a somewhat strange keyboard conenction. There's a card in one of the expansion slots which contains (at least) an 8051 microcontroller. It has a couple of DE9 connectors on the bracket with one hole (at least) blanked off in each one). There's a 3-ended cable that connected to one of the DE9s, to the keyboard connector on the motherboard, and to the cable from the special keyboard. _Somewhere_ I have that cable, but don't expect me to find it in the next year or so. If I do find it, I'll buzz it out and post the wirelist. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 21 13:19:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: IBM PC3270 (5271) keyboard connector? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I just picked up an IBM PC3270 with the 122 key keyboard. The 122 key On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > I can't rememebr if it's this machine, but one of the more 'exotic' > original PCs has a somewhat strange keyboard conenction. > > There's a card in one of the expansion slots which contains (at least) an > 8051 microcontroller. It has a couple of DE9 connectors on the bracket > with one hole (at least) blanked off in each one). There's a 3-ended > cable that connected to one of the DE9s, to the keyboard connector on the > motherboard, and to the cable from the special keyboard. ... and somebody else told me that that card is meant to go into the "special" slot of the XT (in place of the serial card place holder) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 21 15:08:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: IBM PC3270 (5271) keyboard connector? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 21, 3 11:14:27 am Message-ID: > > > I just picked up an IBM PC3270 with the 122 key keyboard. The 122 key > > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > I can't rememebr if it's this machine, but one of the more 'exotic' > > original PCs has a somewhat strange keyboard conenction. > > > > There's a card in one of the expansion slots which contains (at least) an > > 8051 microcontroller. It has a couple of DE9 connectors on the bracket > > with one hole (at least) blanked off in each one). There's a 3-ended > > cable that connected to one of the DE9s, to the keyboard connector on the > > motherboard, and to the cable from the special keyboard. > > ... and somebody else told me that that card is meant to go into the > "special" slot of the XT (in place of the serial card place holder) I can't see why it would _have_ to go in that slot (unless it's something like the cable will only reach to the motherboard keyboard socket if it's there :-)) but I can well believe it can assert pin B8 and therefore would work in that slot.... I mentioned I had the cable. I have the card and keyboard as well. I will have to dig them out _sometime in the distant future_ and investigate -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jun 21 17:24:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Sound for DOS games on modern hardware? Message-ID: <20030621221930.22893.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> OK, I've long since lost the orignal post, but wasn't Ethan specifically trying to run Wolf3D? My memory's pretty darn hazy on this, but I have a feeling that game may support parallel-port audio devices. Back then soundcards were expensive but a parallel-port DAC could be wired up quite cheaply; I remember rigging one up so I could play Amiga soundtracker mod files on the PC. There was also a Windows 3.0 driver floating around. A (very) few DOS games supported such devices - and talking to a parallel port hasn't exactly changed over the years (whilst bus connection methods have). The extra CPU load from driving a parallel port device isn't exactly a problem on modern hardware either :-) Just an idea if you have no ISA slots on the PC and can't rig up another machine anyway - but of course no use whatsoever if the games you want to run won't support a parallel port device! :) I can't find my copy of Wolf3D in order to check :-( I used to have it but I think it's long since vanished - shame as it was a pretty neat game from what I recall. cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 21 17:54:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: Bad experience with eBay seller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF4E10F.1010303@internet1.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I must relate a bad experience I had with an eBay seller. The account > name is "rexbassdesigns". The auction in question was a lot of three > Altair 8800's and an ADM-3A terminal. I was purchasing them for a client. Well Sellam, apparently he didn't like your whining...... I hate it when people who did the wrong, try to act like the nice respectable one in public. Three grand seems high to me, for any computer. I don't know much about machines of this age or reputation/popularity, However. Given the condition, how good or bad was the buy? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sat Jun 21 18:04:00 2003 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: HP 9121 Message-ID: <200306210617.h5L6HRZN019729@codex.cis.upenn.edu> In cctalk digest, Vol 1 #643 Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com wrote: > I don't think the HP-85 writes a LIF format [...] The HP 85 uses LIF, that is why LIFUTIL can read HP 85 disks > There's no option on a 85 to save the program files in an ASCII format You have to use the GETSAVE utility that adds the SAVE and GET commands that use ASCII files. GETSAVE is a binary utility, so you need a different one depending on whether you have an HP83/5 or HP86/7. Both versions may be found at http://www.series80.org/Programs At the top of that page you can find instructions on how to get the LIFUTIL software (for those that do not have it) and also instructions for exchanging programs and data between PCs and HP Series 80 machines with floppy drives. **vp From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sat Jun 21 18:06:00 2003 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:29 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators Message-ID: <200306210730.h5L7UkPd021226@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Bob Shannon in cctalk-647 wrote: > As long at I have the HP bus analyzer connected, and set for SLOW or > HALT bus speeds, I can correctly transfer commands and data to the HP > 1350 (a listen only device). When the bus analyzer is removed, or > connected and set to FAST the bus transfers > will lock up at the inter-command "::" seperator characters. Its almost > as if the HP 1350 cannot signal the bus that it needs to > wait and think about the last command. > > What would happen if a HPIB listener could not drive NRFD? I think that what may be wrong is a simple pull-up or pull-down resistor (which may explain why the setup works with the bus analyser connected). NRFD and NDAC are supposed to be "weakly" pulled high (so that even one device pulling it low wins), so your 1350 may be allowing this line to float rather than pulling it high. If the bus analyser is connected, it will pull the line high (since the 1350 is floating the line) and the bus cycle will work. With the bus analyzer removed, the line stays floating and the cycle freezes. From john_a_s2003 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 21 18:07:50 2003 From: john_a_s2003 at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape Message-ID: Hi, I have some DC100A type cartridges for my HP-85, but at the start of the tape the magnetic coating has come away where the drive belt has been left in contact with the same part of the tape for too long. I have figured out the pattern of holes in the end of the tape used by the optical sensor to detect EOT. I would like to punch a new set of holes away from the damaged area and see if the rest of the tape is usable. So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts so far with a pin have not been a great success..... Thanks, John From vze2ryp6 at verizon.net Sat Jun 21 18:09:40 2003 From: vze2ryp6 at verizon.net (Jeff Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: need hard/software? Message-ID: <000801c3382e$03f450a0$6401a8c0@Domain> while browsing through your messages I noticed someone in need of hard/software for a Triple Crown 700 Eprom burner. I have the whole system if still intersted. From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sat Jun 21 18:18:02 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: free junk: non-VT terminals, UNIX manuals, RL01s Message-ID: <005101c3384a$bd3ddfb0$1d00a8c0@usmayengdahl2> I'm cleaning out the shop. This stuff will go out in the trash on Tuesday unless someone says they want it: Televideo 925 terminal & kbd, works (not VT100 compatible) Wyse WY-50 terminal & kbd, green screen, works, non-VT100 four manuals: AT&T UNIX PC UNIX System V - Users Manual - Programmers Guide - Utilities - Virtual Device Interface The manuals are in four boxed 3-ring binders. The backs have a little surface mold that can probably be wiped off. Four ~1986 Micropolis hard drives, all look identical except for labels: - 2 RD53 - 1 ST506 86 meg (same Micropolis part number as RD53) - 1 1355 170 meg ESDI All of these are unknown except I know the EDSI drive won't spin up correctly. The ESDI was my DOS 5 system disk. Free if you want it, I'll pack it, you pay shipping. Email me if interested, I haven't been reading this list regularly of late. I also have two RL01 drives and 14 disks. These are also free, but are not going to be trashed. I'll keep them until someone claims them. These are too big for me to pack, so you'll have to make all arrangements if you want them. If you come pick them up, you can have the 19" rack and I'll throw in a free PDP-11/23 and a VT-320 just for taking them away for me. --- Jonathan Engdahl Chardon, OH 44024 "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 From alanp at snowmoose.com Sat Jun 21 18:30:01 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Looking for Burroughs B20/BTOS software/hardware/docs Message-ID: <1056237559.3ef4e7f7cb3dc@webmail.snowmoose.com> I am getting a gaggle of Burroughs B20/BTOS machines through eBay. I developed software on them for Burroughs back in the late 80s. Didn't really care for the machines at the time, but I thought the expansion capability by adding "slices" was pretty neat. Does anyone have any B20 "slices" or any BTOS/CTOS software or documentation that they want to sell? alan BTW, long ago I promised to scan in some of my VAX documentation, but life keeps getting in the way. I hope to get that stuff done in August now. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 21 18:36:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I would try making a hole with a heated pin or something like that. Or you might try punching a hole with a piece of small diameter hollow tubing after sharpening the end of the tubing. Alternatively you might try blacking out the clear spot with a magic marker or something like that. That way you could use the original holes. Let me know what you find out. I'v ehad the same problems and I've been meaning to try some different things but never got around to it. Joe At 08:15 PM 6/21/03 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have some DC100A type cartridges for my HP-85, but at the start of the >tape the magnetic coating has come away where the drive belt has been left >in contact with the same part of the tape for too long. > >I have figured out the pattern of holes in the end of the tape used by the >optical sensor to detect EOT. I would like to punch a new set of holes away >from the damaged area and see if the rest of the tape is usable. > >So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts so far >with a pin have not been a great success..... > >Thanks, >John From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jun 21 18:41:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Looking for Burroughs B20/BTOS software/hardware/docs In-Reply-To: <1056237559.3ef4e7f7cb3dc@webmail.snowmoose.com> References: <1056237559.3ef4e7f7cb3dc@webmail.snowmoose.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Alan Perry wrote: > I am getting a gaggle of Burroughs B20/BTOS machines through eBay. I developed > software on them for Burroughs back in the late 80s. That's interesting. I was a QC Engineer on them back in the late 80's, at MPG Camarillo in Southern California. Only for about 8-9 months though. Perhaps I even had the chance to nag you over broken code...??? It stands out as the single most boring job I ever had. The moment something better came along, I was outtathere... ;} I had some BTOS system disks, but they went to a (now forgotten) listmember here a few years back. Cheers John From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Jun 21 18:52:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Computerized Music Gear On eBay In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Mail List, from writings of Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 08:59:07AM -0400: > I remember someone was interested in music gear. > > Don't know if you'd consider this worth the asking price or not, but it > looks like a nice set. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2539449598&category=38071 Yes, it definitely looks like a nice set, and would most likely be fun to work/play with, but I'm not about to pay a price like that for it at this time. Of course, someone probably will, as these sort-of-classic synths are very popular with some people. There appears to be much historic relevance to this computerized synthesizer as well (see http://www.seib.synth.net/ppg/history.htm). That said, if I saw one at a hamfest for a much lower price (like "make me any offer, I don't know what this thing is, and I don't want to have to haul it back home"), I'd buy it, and have great fun with it. :-) Thanks for posting this info! -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jun 21 18:53:44 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: [much snippage] [name of original poster not known] > > > >So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts so far > >with a pin have not been a great success..... > > Back in my Film Biz days, we used to do "spot editing" on magnetic tape by scratching away the oxide with a razor blade or Exacto knife... if you were careful, you might be able to make the 'holes' that way, and the tape strength wouldn't be compromised, either. Maybe even very fine sandpaper or crocus cloth n the end of a Q-tip might work to get the oxide cleaned off, leaving a nice clear spot for the sensors. Just my 200 millidollars.. Cheers John > >Thanks, > >John From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 21 19:22:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > I would try making a hole with a heated pin or something like that. Or > you might try punching a hole with a piece of small diameter hollow tubing > after sharpening the end of the tubing. Alternatively you might try > blacking out the clear spot with a magic marker or something like that. > That way you could use the original holes. Let me know what you find out. > I'v ehad the same problems and I've been meaning to try some different > things but never got around to it. > > Joe The possible problem that I see with the heated pin is the likelihood of leaving a raised 'donut' from melting the mylar that could interfere with proper spooling of the tape. - don > At 08:15 PM 6/21/03 +0100, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I have some DC100A type cartridges for my HP-85, but at the start of the > >tape the magnetic coating has come away where the drive belt has been left > >in contact with the same part of the tape for too long. > > > >I have figured out the pattern of holes in the end of the tape used by the > >optical sensor to detect EOT. I would like to punch a new set of holes away > >from the damaged area and see if the rest of the tape is usable. > > > >So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts so far > >with a pin have not been a great success..... > > > >Thanks, > >John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 21 19:51:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030621204743.0f97e170@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:17 PM 6/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > >> I would try making a hole with a heated pin or something like that. Or >> you might try punching a hole with a piece of small diameter hollow tubing >> after sharpening the end of the tubing. Alternatively you might try >> blacking out the clear spot with a magic marker or something like that. >> That way you could use the original holes. Let me know what you find out. >> I'v ehad the same problems and I've been meaning to try some different >> things but never got around to it. >> >> Joe > >The possible problem that I see with the heated pin is the >likelihood of leaving a raised 'donut' from melting the mylar that >could interfere with proper spooling of the tape. > > - don > There's only one way to find out! Joe From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jun 21 19:58:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > At 08:15 PM 6/21/03 +0100, you wrote: > > So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts > > so far with a pin have not been a great success..... > I would try making a hole with a heated pin or something like that. > Or you might try punching a hole with a piece of small diameter hollow > tubing after sharpening the end of the tubing. Alternatively you might > try blacking out the clear spot with a magic marker or something like > that. That way you could use the original holes. Let me know what you > find out. I'v ehad the same problems and I've been meaning to try some > different things but never got around to it. What's the diameter of holes being talked about? I think the hollow tube approach is a good one, if you can find a small enough diameter tube. Another approach might be to use a solid rod with a flat head. Ideally, I think you'd want the end of the rod to have a slightly concave surface like that of a three-ring-binder hole punch, but a flat surface might work if the edges are sharp and the applied "thwack" is very swift. -brian. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 21 21:46:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030621224232.49af7f08@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:53 PM 6/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: >> At 08:15 PM 6/21/03 +0100, you wrote: > >> > So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts >> > so far with a pin have not been a great success..... > >> I would try making a hole with a heated pin or something like that. >> Or you might try punching a hole with a piece of small diameter hollow >> tubing after sharpening the end of the tubing. Alternatively you might >> try blacking out the clear spot with a magic marker or something like >> that. That way you could use the original holes. Let me know what you >> find out. I'v ehad the same problems and I've been meaning to try some >> different things but never got around to it. > >What's the diameter of holes being talked about? I think the hollow >tube approach is a good one, if you can find a small enough diameter >tube. The holes are about 1/16" IIRC. Check the hobby shops, they used to carry many sizes of brass tubing. Brass is soft and wouldn't last long but it should last long enough to fix a good number of tapes. You might also be able to use a large size hypoderic needle but the end of them is cut at angle so you'd have to cut the end of to make it square and then sharpen it. I think the needles are stainless steel so they'd hold up longer but they'd be harder to sharpen. > Another approach might be to use a solid rod with a flat head. You could do that but only if you have an outer piece (a die) with a close fitting hole for the punch rod to go into. Otherwise the tape would simple bunch up around the punch. Die making is a real ART. Not only do they have to be a very close fit but you'd also have to have something to guide the punch to make sure that it went into the hole in the die without hitting the die. All in all I think it would be a lot easier to sharpen the end of a hollow tube and use it on a piece semi-hard material (wood) like a cookie cutter. Joe >Ideally, I think you'd want the end of the rod to have a slightly >concave surface like that of a three-ring-binder hole punch, but a flat >surface might work if the edges are sharp and the applied "thwack" is >very swift. > >-brian. From thompson at new.rr.com Sat Jun 21 21:50:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: VAX DSSI dyssentary? In-Reply-To: <003201c3379f$28783480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: That -? does look odd. Could the UQSSP have been added in later? You have nothing hooked to it if your only tape is a TF series drive, true? I don't know what to make of the self tests. Perhaps someone configured a script of tests. There is supposed to be a way to do that. What does T 9E show? On other/older machine this lists the selftests. Sorry for top posting Paul On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, John Allain wrote: > > I take it the red 'fault' light is not coming on on the drives? > > Just once, but it cleared. > > Here's the boot seq. I was talking about: > > Wonder what test 59 is and what a failure there signified? > > > > Does your host even show up in the SHOW DEVICE? > > DSSI Node 7 (*) > Yes, like that. > > Perhaps the full output of SHOW DEVICE might be helpful. > Here: > > ">>>sho dev > DSSI Bus 0 Node 7 (*) > > UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500) > -? > > Ethernet Adapter > -EZA0 (08-mac..mac-F7)" > > The "-?" looks wierd. > sho dssi, again, showed no tape. nothin' but controller. > > thx for responding. > John A. > -- From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Jun 22 01:05:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:30 2005 Subject: Bootstrap for TS11 (or TU80) Message-ID: <1056261649.4006.6.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Hi, I'm looking for a PDP-11 bootstrap for a TS11 (or a TU80 -- same thing actually). I can't seem to actually located one. I've created a unix v7m distribution tape and I want to see if I can't install from it. Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 22 10:27:00 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (dogas@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Nice 9-track found Message-ID: <20030622152238.WUZG28265.imf16aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> I got to walk away from a computer store's sale yesterday with a Fujitsu 2444ac rack mountable sweet 9-track and PC interface card, a Computer Logics PCTD16 standard Pertec Interface ISA card & cableing that will run it all from a fairly current PC plus a few tapes to play with too. $5 and my back still hurts. ;) I also got copies of the CE Manual and the Engineering manual for the Fuji and manuals and (I hope a) liscence for Chi Corp's OutRight and ReelView software too. I'll try Chi on Monday because we couldn't find only the disk.... Meanwhiles, I couldn't dig up anything usable from goodle or even info on the "Standard Pertec Interface" for natively talking with the card... Chi's OutRight API looks like Anyone have any freeware or specs for working with this? Thanks - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 22 11:05:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: VAX DSSI dyssentary? References: Message-ID: <000c01c338d7$68e70300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > That -? does look odd. Could the UQSSP have been added in later? > You have nothing hooked to it if your only tape is a TF series drive, > true? There's an odd SCSI card (CMD 220) in it, that could be it. A next set of tests would be to remove excess cards, and try again. > What does T 9E show? On other/older machine this lists the selftests. Here's the t 9e. Noticing now that one set of tests is in dec. (boot) and one's in hex. (this one), then 59=3B, and we get 'test not shown'. If somebodies' got a book to crack on this one that might be needed. John A. Test # Address Name Parameters ___________________________________________________________________________ 20052800 SCB 2005377C De_executive 30 2005D564 MS650_Init_Bitmap *** mark_Hard_SBEs ****** 31 2005D324 MS650_Setup_CSRs ********** 32 2005CE6C CMCTL regs MEMCSR0_addr ********* 33 2005CE28 CMCTL_powerup * 34 20054ECC SSC_ROM * 3F 2005F3A8 MS650_FDM_Addr_shorts *** cont_on_err ****** 40 2005FB90 MS650_count_pages First_board Last_bd Soft_errs_allowed ******* 41 20062CCC Board_Reset * 42 20054F8C Chk_for_Interrupts ***** 43 2005B268 SOC_DI_Cache_w_mem cache_config start_add end_add add_incr ****** 44 2005AA9C SOC_D_Cache_w_Mem cache_config start_add end_add add_incr ****** 45 2005A6FC SOC_Cache_mem_CQBIC cache_config start_add end_add add_incr ****** 46 2005B784 SOC_Cache1_diag_mode cache_config addr_incr ******** 47 2005F920 MS650_Refresh start_a end incr cont_on_err time_seconds ***** 48 2005EFDC MS650_Addr_shorts start_add end_add * cont_on_err pat2 pat3 **** 49 2005EA18 MS650_FDM *** cont_on_err ****** 4A 2005E770 MS650_ECC_SBEs start_add end_add add_incr cont_on_err ****** 4B 2005E530 MS650_Byte_Errors start_add end_add add_incr cont_on_err ****** 4C 2005DFD4 MS650_ECC_Logic start_add end_add add_incr cont_on_err ****** 4D 2005DE44 MS650_Address start_add end_add add_incr cont_on_err ****** 4E 2005DC50 MS650_Byte start_add end_add add_incr cont_on_err ****** 4F 2005D9A4 MS650_Data start_add end_add add_incr cont_on_err ****** 51 20062D9B FPA ******* 52 20055538 SSC_Prog_timers which_timer wait_time_us *** 53 20055808 SSC_TOY_Clock repeat_test_250ms_ea Tolerance *** 54 20055062 Virtual_Mode ********* 55 200559BE Interval_Timer * 58 20061924 SHAC_RESET dssi_bus port_number time_secs 59 20060A78 SGEC_LPBCK_ASSIST time_secs ** 5A 2005A600 SOC_CMCTL dont_report_memory_bad repeat_count * 5C 20060FE0 SHAC shac_number ******* 5F 2005FD64 SGEC loopback_type no_ram_tests ****** 60 2005A22D SSC_Console_SLU start_BAUD end_BAUD ****** 62 20055DFC console_QDSS mark_not_present selftest_r0 selftest_r1 ***** 63 20055F78 QDSS_any input_csr selftest_r0 selftest_r1 ****** 80 20059C0D CQBIC_memory_LMGH ********** 81 20055A60 Qbus_MSCP IP_csr ****** 82 20055C25 Qbus_DELQA device_num_addr **** 83 20056E82 QZA_Intlpbck1 controller_number ******** 84 2005853C QZA_Intlpbck2 controller_number ********* 85 200560D4 QZA_memory incr test_pattern controller_number ******* 86 20056590 QZA_DMA Controller_number main_mem_buf ******** 87 20059780 QZA_EXTLPBCK controller_number **** 90 200554B6 CQBIC_registers * 91 2005544C CQBIC_powerup ** 99 20062FA9 Flush_Ena_Caches dis_flush_cache ********* 9A 20061EB0 INTERACTION pass_count disable_device **** 9B 20062B8C Init_memory_4MB * 9C 2005C02A List_CPU_registers * 9D 2005CD06 Utility Expnd_err_msg get_mode init_LEDs clr_ps_cnt 9E 20055A32 List_diagnostics * 9F 200630E6 Create_A0_Script ********** C1 20054B78 SSC_RAM_Data * C2 20054D4E SSC_RAM_Data_Addr * C5 20059A51 SSC_registers * C6 20054ABC SSC_powerup ********* C7 20059B58 SSC_CBTCR_timeout *** Scripts # Description A0 User defined scripts A1 Powerup tests, Functional Verify, continue on error, numeric countdown A3 Functional Verify, stop on error, test # announcements A4 Loop on A3 Functional Verify A5 Address shorts test, run fastest way possible A6 Memory tests, mark only multiple bit errors A7 Memory tests A8 Memory acceptance tests, mark single and multi-bit errors, call A7 A9 Memory tests, stop on error B5 Cache tests, report errors From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 22 12:22:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: FS: Cyrix chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just thought I'd re-post this to see if anyone is interested. They might get tossed if no one speaks up soon. --- I remember seeing a thread on here a month or two ago about someone wanting a Cyrix Fastmath and/or a Cyrix 486 upgrade for a 386 socket. I grabbed a 33MHz and 40MHz pair of each, on 386 motherboard. If anyone's interested, I'm asking $5 each pair including shipping. I'm in West Lafayette, IN. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jun 22 12:27:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Nice 9-track found In-Reply-To: <20030622152238.WUZG28265.imf16aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20030622152238.WUZG28265.imf16aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: SSSCCCOORRRRRRRRRRRRE!!!!!!!!! Nice find, nice price... I have an M4 Data SCSI / Pertec drive that I use with an old Pent I box - works nicely - not as sophisticated as your rig, though.. definitely paid more than $5 for it, however! ;{ Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 22 12:42:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: from "John" at Jun 21, 3 08:15:38 pm Message-ID: > Hi, > > I have some DC100A type cartridges for my HP-85, but at the start of the > tape the magnetic coating has come away where the drive belt has been left > in contact with the same part of the tape for too long. A very common problem :-( > > I have figured out the pattern of holes in the end of the tape used by the > optical sensor to detect EOT. I would like to punch a new set of holes away > from the damaged area and see if the rest of the tape is usable. > > So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts so far > with a pin have not been a great success..... Have you thought about making a die of some kind (possbly a folded piece of brass) with the holes in the right place. Slip the tape in that, clamp it up, then put a punch through the holes. A pin is the wrong shape -- you want a flat-ended (or slightly concave) punch. To guide it and keep it vertical I'd use a watchmakers staking set, but I guess few people have one of those here. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 22 12:44:06 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 21, 3 07:33:05 pm Message-ID: > I would try making a hole with a heated pin or something like that. Or > you might try punching a hole with a piece of small diameter hollow tubing > after sharpening the end of the tubing. Alternatively you might try > blacking out the clear spot with a magic marker or something like that. That trick often works for reading damaged tapes (I recovered some 82176s (for the 82161) that way), but the magic marker doesn't last. I think I got about 10 passes before I had to go over it again. -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jun 22 12:55:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Another Geniac goes High Message-ID: <005201c338e6$d9bafe10$7208dd40@oemcomputer> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?viewitem&item=2735752048 I do not think I will ever get one of these but I do have 2 of the Brainiac's. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 22 13:38:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: FS: Cyrix chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, they're gone already. Thanks for the interest. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I just thought I'd re-post this to see if anyone is interested. They > might get tossed if no one speaks up soon. > --- > I remember seeing a thread on here a month or two ago about someone > wanting a Cyrix Fastmath and/or a Cyrix 486 upgrade for a 386 socket. I > grabbed a 33MHz and 40MHz pair of each, on 386 motherboard. If anyone's > interested, I'm asking $5 each pair including shipping. I'm in West > Lafayette, IN. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From kth at srv.net Sun Jun 22 13:46:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape References: <3.0.6.16.20030621193305.0f8f3ca6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3EF60245.7060908@srv.net> Brian Chase wrote: >On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > > >>At 08:15 PM 6/21/03 +0100, you wrote: >> >> > > > >>>So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts >>>so far with a pin have not been a great success..... >>> >>> > > > >> I would try making a hole with a heated pin or something like that. >>Or you might try punching a hole with a piece of small diameter hollow >>tubing after sharpening the end of the tubing. Alternatively you might >>try blacking out the clear spot with a magic marker or something like >>that. That way you could use the original holes. Let me know what you >>find out. I'v ehad the same problems and I've been meaning to try some >>different things but never got around to it. >> >> > >What's the diameter of holes being talked about? I think the hollow >tube approach is a good one, if you can find a small enough diameter >tube. Another approach might be to use a solid rod with a flat head. >Ideally, I think you'd want the end of the rod to have a slightly >concave surface like that of a three-ring-binder hole punch, but a flat >surface might work if the edges are sharp and the applied "thwack" is >very swift. > >-brian. > > > Check with a arts & crafts store. They often have paper punches for doing ornamental paper work, and some of them make very small holes. It depends on what diameter you need. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jun 22 13:46:36 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030622144056.00a8e2f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Stuart, You out there? Best Regards Bennett From kth at srv.net Sun Jun 22 13:48:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Bootstrap for TS11 (or TU80) References: <1056261649.4006.6.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <3EF602E0.8010007@srv.net> Guy Sotomayor wrote: >Hi, > >I'm looking for a PDP-11 bootstrap for a TS11 (or a TU80 -- same thing >actually). I can't seem to actually located one. > >I've created a unix v7m distribution tape and I want to see if I can't >install from it. > >Thanks. > > Is this what you want? http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstraps/ From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 22 14:26:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: FS: processor chips Message-ID: Nothing too exciting, just trying to get rid of some 'spares'. - MIPS R4600/133 MHz "PC" (L1 cache only) module from an SGI Indy. It was working when I pulled it. - Intel 80486 486DX/33MHz - Intel Pentium 120MHz "A80502120" The MIPS processor is a whole module, the other two are just the PGA chips. I'm asking just for $5 shipping for each (for the continental US, other places are probably more expensive). First offer get it. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 22 16:28:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Diablo 630 daisywheels (UK) Message-ID: <3EF61F3B.1080504@gifford.co.uk> Does anybody have any spare daisywheels for a Diablo 630 printer? I have one of these printers, apparently complete and working, but without a daisywheel. Alternatively, does anybody here want it, as it is? I'm in Bristol, UK. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jun 22 16:29:33 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Computerized Music Gear On eBay In-Reply-To: <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Mail List, from writings of Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 08:59:07AM -0400: > > I remember someone was interested in music gear. > > > > Don't know if you'd consider this worth the asking price or not, but > > it looks like a nice set. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2539449598&category=38071 > > Yes, it definitely looks like a nice set, and would most likely be fun > to work/play with, but I'm not about to pay a price like that for it at > this time. Of course, someone probably will, as these sort-of-classic > synths are very popular with some people. There appears to be much > historic relevance to this computerized synthesizer as well (see > http://www.seib.synth.net/ppg/history.htm). That said, if I saw one at > a hamfest for a much lower price (like "make me any offer, I don't know > what this thing is, and I don't want to have to haul it back home"), I'd > buy it, and have great fun with it. :-) I have to agree, it does seem to be a really nice set. I'd certainly not fork over that kind of cash for one though. I figure one of these days, such a setup will find me ;) It appears that the auction ended without a sale. I wonder if it will be re-listed without such a high reserve? -Toth From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jun 22 16:31:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs SCSI Card Message-ID: <007d01c33904$e1938620$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Whats the difference in rom versions of the Apple II scsi cards, I have seen numerous B and C rom'd cards. Can you easily change the rom versions? I wanted a scsi card for my IIgs and I think only C rom versions work. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 22 18:12:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs SCSI Card In-Reply-To: <007d01c33904$e1938620$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Whats the difference in rom versions of the Apple II scsi cards, I have seen > numerous B and C rom'd cards. Can you easily change the rom versions? I wanted > a scsi card for my IIgs and I think only C rom versions work. The C revision is apparently the only one that will work with certain CD-ROM drives, like the Apple CD 300. The A and B revisions apparently are incapable of working. I know that the A revision is, because I tried to no avail (inspite of what all the documentation I found said ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jun 22 18:21:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs SCSI Card References: Message-ID: <009601c33914$39b99a60$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Is there anything physically different on the cards besides the roms? Did the revision B work fine with hard disks? I heard a rumor removable drives work with C only (cdrom, syquest etc). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 7:03 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIgs SCSI Card > On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > Whats the difference in rom versions of the Apple II scsi cards, I have seen > > numerous B and C rom'd cards. Can you easily change the rom versions? I wanted > > a scsi card for my IIgs and I think only C rom versions work. > > The C revision is apparently the only one that will work with certain > CD-ROM drives, like the Apple CD 300. The A and B revisions apparently > are incapable of working. I know that the A revision is, because I tried > to no avail (inspite of what all the documentation I found said ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 22 19:14:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs SCSI Card In-Reply-To: <009601c33914$39b99a60$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Is there anything physically different on the cards besides the roms? Did > the revision B work fine with hard disks? I'm not sure. I would guess at a minimum there are ROM differences, but quite likely minor electronic or electrical differences as well. > I heard a rumor removable drives work with C only (cdrom, syquest etc). I believe it's more than just a rumor :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sun Jun 22 19:18:00 2003 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: HP-85: GETSAVE utility for converting tokenized BASIC progs to ASCII Message-ID: <200306212345.h5LNjqRo011522@codex.cis.upenn.edu> This applies to Series 80 computers. As I mentioned in a previous posting, you need the GETSAVE utility to convert tokenized Basic programs to ASCII form. As these commands were not built in to the main system ROMs, you need to get the binary program GETSAVE (http://www.series80.org/Programs). However, I have just found out that the SAVE and GET commands are built into the Electronic Disk ROM. So if you have the 00087-15012 Electronic Disk (EDISC) ROM or if you have the electonic disk built-in (e.g. HP 85B, HP 9915B, and I think HP86B) you do not need the binary utility. Final note, as GETSAVE is a binary program, you have to be careful to use the correct version for your platform (i.e. there is one version for the HP83/85 and another for the HP86/87). **vp From uemukai at 154649.com Sun Jun 22 19:18:35 2003 From: uemukai at 154649.com (Takeshi Uemukai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: I'm looking for TRS-80 expansion interface of schematic. Message-ID: <001101c33871$5a23a050$0b01a8c0@main> Hi, I want to repair TRS-80 expansion interface ( 26-1140 ), and am looking for this schematic. Thank you. Takeshi Uemukai. uemukai@154649.com From uemukai at 154649.com Sun Jun 22 19:19:10 2003 From: uemukai at 154649.com (Takeshi Uemukai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: I'm looking for TRS-80 expansion interface of schematic. Message-ID: <002c01c33872$3e92ef70$0b01a8c0@main> Hi, I want to repair TRS-80 expansion interface ( 26-1140 ), and am looking for this schematic. Thank you. Takeshi Uemukai. uemukai@154649.com From doc at vaxen.net Sun Jun 22 19:19:49 2003 From: doc at vaxen.net (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: HP 64K in Phoenix, AZ Message-ID: <1056259684.12267.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> Apache Reclamation & Electronics has an HP 64110A with a 6809 analyzer module. The 6809 module looks a little rough, but the 64110A looked very clean. Keyboard is attached and intact. That type of gear is far out of my ken, but it seemed I've seen the 64000 machines discussed here. I was in a hurry, so I have no idea what they want for it. They also have the most amazing array of test equipment I've ever seen. Doc From jontitus at attbi.com Sun Jun 22 19:20:25 2003 From: jontitus at attbi.com (Jon Titus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: HP-9825 Modules Available Message-ID: Folks: I have several extra modules for an HP-9825 calculator/computer: Operating System, No. 09825-67905 Long module, slides in the side. (two available) String -- Adv. Programming, No. 98210A. Short module, slides in the front. (two available) 9872A Plotter -- Gen I/O and Extended I/O. Short module, slides in the front. (one available) Make me an offer. Offer ends on June 30th at noon EDT. Jon Jon Titus 36 Sunset Drive Milford, MA 01757-1362 USA Phone: +1-508-478-8040 E-mail: jontitus@attbi.com From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Jun 22 19:37:01 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Bootstrap for TS11 (or TU80) In-Reply-To: <3EF602E0.8010007@srv.net> References: <1056261649.4006.6.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <3EF602E0.8010007@srv.net> Message-ID: <1056328381.5111.25.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Sun, 2003-06-22 at 12:26, Kevin Handy wrote: > Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I'm looking for a PDP-11 bootstrap for a TS11 (or a TU80 -- same thing > >actually). I can't seem to actually located one. > > > >I've created a unix v7m distribution tape and I want to see if I can't > >install from it. > > > >Thanks. > > > > > Is this what you want? > > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstraps/ I'd already tried that and it didn't work. I did find a bootstrap in the 2.11 BSD installation guide, but I haven't had a chance to try that one yet. I'll post to let everyone know if that works. Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy From dmabry at mich.com Sun Jun 22 19:43:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: WTB: Shugart 800/801 drives Message-ID: <3EF64BAE.6030308@mich.com> Hi folks, For some reason, I've gotten the bug to get some of my Intel Development Systems working again, and it seems that the main part I need is the floppy drive. The Intels use single sided, double density drives. All mine have Shugart 800/801 variety. I would like to buy two or three of them, preferable working. If anyone would like to sell up to three of them, please let me know. Also, if there is anyone local to me (Detroit area) who would like a working Intel Series II development system, I have one to sell. Everything is checked out and works. I really don't want to ship it. It is a major hassle to palletize it and then shipping costs about $150 because of the weight. So, local only for now. Thanks. Dave -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jun 22 20:45:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Computerized Music Gear On eBay In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030623014152.GB1346@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tothwolf, from writings of Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 04:35:43PM -0500: [PPG system] > I have to agree, it does seem to be a really nice set. I'd certainly not > fork over that kind of cash for one though. I figure one of these days, > such a setup will find me ;) Yep... hopefully we'll both be found by some of those. :-) For the kind of money that seller is asking though, one can purchase a lot more synthesis equipment, and a nice eight or sixteen track analog tape recorder to go with it, plus plenty of accessories for PDP-8s and 11's required for synthesis-related usage. > It appears that the auction ended without a sale. I wonder if it will be > re-listed without such a high reserve? Hopefully, but I'll wait for one at the "buy this for 10 bucks", or "please take it, so I don't have to haul it back home" hamfest price. Does anyone on this list have a couple of these PPG synth. systems taking up valuable space in their warehouses, basements, barns, etc. that they need help getting rid of, so they can reclaim the valuable space that they take up? If so, there are two people on this list who will, most likely, gladly help you with the problem. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jun 22 21:25:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: HP1350 Graphics Translators References: <200306210730.h5L7UkPd021226@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3EF66404.8000601@tiac.net> I've spent a few hours tinkering with my code and an oscilloscope, and I think I understand my protocol problem! vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu wrote: >Bob Shannon in cctalk-647 wrote: > >>As long at I have the HP bus analyzer connected, and set for SLOW or >>HALT bus speeds, I can correctly transfer commands and data to the HP >>1350 (a listen only device). When the bus analyzer is removed, or >>connected and set to FAST the bus transfers >>will lock up at the inter-command "::" seperator characters. Its almost >>as if the HP 1350 cannot signal the bus that it needs to >>wait and think about the last command. >> >>What would happen if a HPIB listener could not drive NRFD? >> > >I think that what may be wrong is a simple pull-up or pull-down resistor >(which may explain why the setup works with the bus analyser connected). > >NRFD and NDAC are supposed to be "weakly" pulled high (so that even one >device pulling it low wins), so your 1350 may be allowing this line to >float rather than pulling it high. If the bus analyser is connected, it >will pull the line high (since the 1350 is floating the line) and the >bus cycle will work. With the bus analyzer removed, the line stays floating >and the cycle freezes. > >>From page 28 of the HP-IB Tutorial Description of the HP-IB >(HP 5952-0156, Jan 1983): >The pull-up resistor (to VCC) should be 3.1KOhm (+/-5%) >while the pull-down (to signal ground) should be 6.2 KOhm. > Ahhh, here we have it! The HP 12821A 'hi-speed' HPIB interface board has very different pull-up values! Only 240 ohms for the pull up (as compared to 3.1K) and the pull down values are 680 ohms (compated to 6.2K). Looking at NRFD with the analyzer in slow-mode, I see clean edges and valid levels. NRFD will pulse 'high' for random durations from ~23usec to over 1 ms, depending on what instruction is being sent to the HP1350. NDAC is always about 500ns, positive going pulse. So NRFD is trying to tell the bus how fast to go, it looks like the HP1350 is working correctly, with the analyzer in slow mode. In fast mode the levels and edges change for the worse. NRFD's edges look awful, and it does not pull the signal all that 'low', the pull-up values do indeed appear to be much too low. But is it possible that my HPIB driver code is malfunctioning, and not waiting for NRFD high before starting a transfer? I looked at this, and NRFD goes directly into the 12821A's transmit handshaking logic, this is not the programmers responsibility, nor is there a real-time status signal available to check the state of this line prior to sending a byte. So the code cannot be screwing this up, besides, I can talk to other HPIB devices at full speed, its just the HP1350 that I'm having problems with. > > >Check both the NDAC and the NRFD. > NDAC appears to be doing ok, but NRFD is having problems. If I cannot get the programming info for the HP59310B instrument control version of the HPIB controller, I'll try to 'alter' a 12821A by removing the pull-up and pull down networks and replacing them with more reasonable values. The 12821A schematics refer to these resistors as a '7 unit load'. This sounds reasonable, if each device has its own termination resistors. I thought only the system controller had these terminators, so why does it appear each device has a parallel set of termination resistors? From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 22 21:30:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: VAX DSSI dyssentary? References: <000c01c338d7$68e70300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <006401c3392e$bb7e47c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> The machine seems usable now. It's flaky in a way I don't understand. Both the PSU's have green lights on them but when it comes up it autoreboots at test 60.. continuously for a reason I have to determine someday. Until then it seems to be OK if I halt the boot, wait about four minutes and then restart. It goes all the way to boot 3.. and then takes the 'b dia0', and 'sho dssi'. Whatever. Anyone recognizing the symptoms can add a message. Till then. John A. From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Jun 22 21:34:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Moving to MO Message-ID: <9B89D1B6-A522-11D7-B69E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> I am moving from San Jose, CA to Kansas City, MO Is there anyplace like Weird Stuff? Mike Quinn? or the like? From ssj152 at charter.net Sun Jun 22 21:49:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030622144056.00a8e2f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <01d601c33931$5cc941a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mail List" To: Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 1:41 PM Subject: (no subject) > Stuart, > > You out there? > > > Best Regards > > Bennett > There are two Stuarts currently posting on the list (since Jan of this year), myself and another one - stuart at robo dreams dot com (address mangled on purpose), who seems to be in the UK. I am in the US / Alabama, ssj152 at charter dot net. I suspect you are looking for the Stuart in the UK. Stuart Johnson From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 22 22:44:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Siemens System 4004 on Willy Wonka Message-ID: I was channel flipping and came across a movie on The Disney Channel where a guy was standing in front of the front panel of a computer with tape drives spinning in the background. He was doing some demonstration for three men, pushing buttons and flipping switches on the front panel and then the computer was spitting out results on punch card from the front (this part was fake). At first I thought it was a recent film. I thought the tape drives looked very authentic, because their movement was very real. Then I looked at the front panel and saw "Siemens System 4004", and was quite surprised. It turns out the movie is "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory". The last time I saw this was probably 15 years ago. The Siemens System 4004 is very interesting in this context. According to Hans, it is the first fully transistorized digital computer, beating out even the MIT TX-0. The Austrian Mail?fterl also vies for the title, but Hans Franke claims it wasn't fully completed or something: http://www.museumonline.at/2000/wien-feuerbach/mailueft/mailueft_de.htm http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/co/5163/1.html A quick Google search turned up a computer that I was not previously aware of: http://www.pbs.org/transistor/background1/events/sscomputer.html This is the TRADIC (TRAnsistorized DIgital Computer) built by Bell Labs. If the year is correct, I believe this is a contender for the title. This site says 1955: http://www.cedmagic.com/history/tradic-transistorized.html Here's a couple pages on the Siemens 4004: http://www.wolfgangtroeger.de/museum.htm http://www.computermuseum-muenchen.de/computer/siemens/ Pretty cool stuff. Is anyone still keeping track of these vintage computer movie appearances? This one is pretty significant ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jun 23 00:38:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Computerized Music Gear On eBay References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20030623014152.GB1346@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <000d01c33948$fc13f220$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> RDD wrote... > Does anyone on this list have a couple of these PPG synth. systems > taking up valuable space in their warehouses, basements, barns, > etc. that they need help getting rid of, so they can reclaim the > valuable space that they take up? If so, there are two people on this > list who will, most likely, gladly help you with the problem. :-) Make that three :) Although I'd prefer to find an Oberheim Matrix 12, I guess I'd settle for most PPG's :> Jay West From luc at e2t.be Mon Jun 23 03:11:00 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Diablo 630 daisywheels (UK) In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720DEFC0@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD633@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Hi, John, I do have one - I never dumped it, because I loved those (bloody) 630's I's a metal one with the USA Titan10 character set, never used... You can have it if you want it... I might have the service manuals of this 630 too - somewhere... gr. Luc Belgium -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Honniball Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:27 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Diablo 630 daisywheels (UK) Does anybody have any spare daisywheels for a Diablo 630 printer? I have one of these printers, apparently complete and working, but without a daisywheel. Alternatively, does anybody here want it, as it is? I'm in Bristol, UK. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From drido at optushome.com.au Mon Jun 23 03:14:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: IBM PC3270 display was Re: IBM PC3270 (5271) keyboard connector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030623180849.01277498@mail.optushome.com.au> At 06:14 AM 6/22/03, you wrote: >> > > I just picked up an IBM PC3270 with the 122 key keyboard. The 122 key >> >> On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Tony Duell wrote: >> > I can't rememebr if it's this machine, but one of the more 'exotic' >> > original PCs has a somewhat strange keyboard conenction. >> > >> > There's a card in one of the expansion slots which contains (at least) an >> > 8051 microcontroller. It has a couple of DE9 connectors on the bracket >> > with one hole (at least) blanked off in each one). There's a 3-ended >> > cable that connected to one of the DE9s, to the keyboard connector on the >> > motherboard, and to the cable from the special keyboard. >> >> ... and somebody else told me that that card is meant to go into the >> "special" slot of the XT (in place of the serial card place holder) > >I can't see why it would _have_ to go in that slot (unless it's something >like the cable will only reach to the motherboard keyboard socket if it's >there :-)) but I can well believe it can assert pin B8 and therefore >would work in that slot.... > >I mentioned I had the cable. I have the card and keyboard as well. I will >have to dig them out _sometime in the distant future_ and investigate I've found the cable, so no need to go digging. Once I had that card out and noticed one of the connectors was marked kbd I knew what to look for. Prior to that I thought it was just an adapter. Any idea what the other connector on that card is for? It's marked S.PORT from memory. Any idea if the video card can do graphics at all? I vaguely remember seeing CGA on one once, but while the card is detected at CGA any attempt to use a graphics mode gets me a blank screen. From alanp at snowmoose.com Mon Jun 23 03:29:00 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Looking for Burroughs B20/BTOS software/hardware/docs In-Reply-To: References: <1056237559.3ef4e7f7cb3dc@webmail.snowmoose.com> Message-ID: <1056356282.3ef6b7baa6e6c@webmail.snowmoose.com> I worked on DTS 3.x, a Burroughs block mode terminal emulator and file transfer utility for B20s and PCs. I also did maintenance through end-of-life on HostLink, an app that did more integration between Burroughs mainframes and B20s/PCs (printing on mainframe printers from the B20/PC and mounting virtual volumes on the B20/PC that were actually disk space on the mainframe, stuff like that). That was 86-89. I worked on other stuff as well, but that was my B20 work. I barely remember any of it anymore. alan Quoting John Lawson : > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Alan Perry wrote: > > > I am getting a gaggle of Burroughs B20/BTOS machines through eBay. I > > developed software on them for Burroughs back in the late 80s. > > That's interesting. I was a QC Engineer on them back in the late 80's, at > MPG Camarillo in Southern California. Only for about 8-9 months though. > Perhaps I even had the chance to nag you over broken code...??? > > It stands out as the single most boring job I ever had. The moment > something better came along, I was outtathere... ;} > > I had some BTOS system disks, but they went to a (now forgotten) > listmember here a few years back. > > > Cheers > > John From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jun 23 04:25:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Moving to MO In-Reply-To: <9B89D1B6-A522-11D7-B69E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <9B89D1B6-A522-11D7-B69E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20030623141740.17789.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Ron Hudson writes: > I am moving from San Jose, CA to Kansas City, MO > > Is there anyplace like Weird Stuff? Mike Quinn? or the like? We have a few places, but they're drying up fast. Surplus Exchange, in the west bottoms My favorite is Kansas Computer Recyclers in Topeka, which is about 65 miles W of KC. Let me know when you get to KC, I'm just an hour's drive away. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jun 23 04:42:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Siemens System 4004 on Willy Wonka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3EF6E79E.21301.14A9ED03@localhost> > I was channel flipping and came across a movie on The Disney Channel where > a guy was standing in front of the front panel of a computer with tape > drives spinning in the background. He was doing some demonstration for > three men, pushing buttons and flipping switches on the front panel and > then the computer was spitting out results on punch card from the front > (this part was fake). At first I thought it was a recent film. I thought > the tape drives looked very authentic, because their movement was very > real. Then I looked at the front panel and saw "Siemens System 4004", and > was quite surprised. > It turns out the movie is "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory". The > last time I saw this was probably 15 years ago. > The Siemens System 4004 is very interesting in this context. According to > Hans, it is the first fully transistorized digital computer, beating out > even the MIT TX-0. The Austrian Mail?fterl also vies for the title, but > Hans Franke claims it wasn't fully completed or something: Well, I hate to correct you in public, Sallam, but there's a litte numbertwist. The first one was the 2002 from the mid 50s. The 4004 series (2002 was just one model, and the 3003 as followup also), was rather a plain /360 ripoff Siemens bought from RCA (and thus getting on the compatibility train, and yeah, already 30 years ago the idea of saveing money by buying instead of developing your own technology, even if you've been a leader before), just to learn that RCA stoped producing them - so Siemens restarted their development and kame whithin less than a year with a bunch of clones and there after from scratch designed models ... leading eventualy to the X and Z CPUs which are in my mind the best ever ISA 24 Bit CPUs... including extensions for two kinds of list managements on ISA level. One was supposed to be a stack, while the other has been some kind of address indirection, at the same time aiming to support a stack and high level languages like LISP etc. Long talk, short result, in the 80s all these nice extensions got canned again in favour to IBM compatibility. > http://www.museumonline.at/2000/wien-feuerbach/mailueft/mailueft_de.htm > http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/co/5163/1.html > A quick Google search turned up a computer that I was not previously aware > of: > http://www.pbs.org/transistor/background1/events/sscomputer.html > This is the TRADIC (TRAnsistorized DIgital Computer) built by Bell Labs. > If the year is correct, I believe this is a contender for the title. In contrast to the 2002 it's been just a single unit and rather specialized. > Here's a couple pages on the Siemens 4004: > http://www.wolfgangtroeger.de/museum.htm > http://www.computermuseum-muenchen.de/computer/siemens/ Maybe take a look at the pages of the Deutsches Museum pages and see the 2002 in a panoramic view (quicktime required) http://www.deutsches-museum.de/mum/panorama/big/e_siemen.htm Now, if the resuution would be better, you'd see a little burn mark at the operators table - we had the culprit as a speaker at VCFe this year :) Beside the 2002 a TR4, a Cray (behind the 7074) and a /360 is show (behind the 360 the remains of the PERM are on display). Even whit the less than superior display of smaler machinery (shamefuly hidden behind the TR4 :) there's a Z4 http://www.deutsches-museum.de/mum/panorama/big/zuse.htm and a Univac - note the quite unique view from inside: http://www.deutsches-museum.de/mum/panorama/big/univac.htm As some may know, I'm still not realy in favor for the way the mordern parts of the computing exhibition has been displayed, but nonetheless, the Deutsches Museum is worth several visits. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Jun 23 05:42:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Computerized Music Gear On eBay In-Reply-To: References: <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030623063321.00a47330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Toth, > It appears that the auction ended without a sale. I wonder if it will be > re-listed without such a high reserve? Now that you know the item number and the seller's ID, you might email them and ask. They might lower the price a little and run it again, though as of yet, it doesn't show being relisted. Best Regards At 04:35 PM 6/22/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Quothe Mail List, from writings of Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 08:59:07AM -0400: > > > I remember someone was interested in music gear. > > > > > > Don't know if you'd consider this worth the asking price or not, but > > > it looks like a nice set. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2539449598&category=38071 > > > > Yes, it definitely looks like a nice set, and would most likely be fun > > to work/play with, but I'm not about to pay a price like that for it at > > this time. Of course, someone probably will, as these sort-of-classic > > synths are very popular with some people. There appears to be much > > historic relevance to this computerized synthesizer as well (see > > http://www.seib.synth.net/ppg/history.htm). That said, if I saw one at > > a hamfest for a much lower price (like "make me any offer, I don't know > > what this thing is, and I don't want to have to haul it back home"), I'd > > buy it, and have great fun with it. :-) > >I have to agree, it does seem to be a really nice set. I'd certainly not >fork over that kind of cash for one though. I figure one of these days, >such a setup will find me ;) > >It appears that the auction ended without a sale. I wonder if it will be >re-listed without such a high reserve? > >-Toth From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Jun 23 05:58:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Computerized Music Gear On eBay In-Reply-To: <20030623014152.GB1346@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030621085441.00a38090@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <20030621234813.GA1060@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030623064023.05b48ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Robert, > For the kind of money that seller is asking though, one can purchase a lot > more synthesis equipment I didn't know what something like that would actually be worth, it's just something I'd run across while searching eBay. The link you came up with to the history of Wolfgang Palm and PPG was an interesting read. Thanks. Best Regards At 09:41 PM 6/22/03 -0400, you wrote: >Quothe Tothwolf, from writings of Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 04:35:43PM -0500: >[PPG system] > > I have to agree, it does seem to be a really nice set. I'd certainly not > > fork over that kind of cash for one though. I figure one of these days, > > such a setup will find me ;) > >Yep... hopefully we'll both be found by some of those. :-) For the >kind of money that seller is asking though, one can purchase a lot >more synthesis equipment, and a nice eight or sixteen track analog >tape recorder to go with it, plus plenty of accessories for PDP-8s >and 11's required for synthesis-related usage. > > > It appears that the auction ended without a sale. I wonder if it will be > > re-listed without such a high reserve? > >Hopefully, but I'll wait for one at the "buy this for 10 bucks", or >"please take it, so I don't have to haul it back home" hamfest price. > >Does anyone on this list have a couple of these PPG synth. systems >taking up valuable space in their warehouses, basements, barns, >etc. that they need help getting rid of, so they can reclaim the >valuable space that they take up? If so, there are two people on this >list who will, most likely, gladly help you with the problem. :-) > >-- >Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jun 23 07:46:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: http://www.decdocs.org Message-ID: <3EF6F56A.4CE2FC95@compsys.to> I just attempted to check this address: http://www.decdocs.org/ =============================================== This domain has expired It will be deleted in the next few days. If you are the owner of this domain, you still have a chance to renew it. Domain Name Expires decdocs.org 19-JUN-03 You can renew all or part of the listed domains immediately; we recommend doing this, in case we don't have your credit card on file. Domains renewed manually will not be auto-renewed. If you own this domain, you can also log in to your account by clicking this button. =============================================== Anyone interested? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jun 23 07:56:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Moving to MO References: <9B89D1B6-A522-11D7-B69E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <20030623141740.17789.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <004701c33986$2ade04a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Ron Hudson writes: > > > I am moving from San Jose, CA to Kansas City, MO > > > > Is there anyplace like Weird Stuff? Mike Quinn? or the like? Nope, there's nothing like those places at all. I'm in MO, drop me a line when you get settled in and I'll show you the spots worth going to. Regards, Jay West From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Mon Jun 23 08:59:00 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: Monrobot XI details Message-ID: <31FEC0A6-A582-11D7-8E60-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Here is the latest information on the Monrobot XI computers that have become available in Virginia. I'm afraid that while I am quite interested in these, I will probably be unable to acquire one. It seems they are interested in selling them rather than giving them away to good homes. Any reasonable sale price in addition to the considerable cost of shipping a 500 pound machine will probably put them out of my price range. I'm hoping that some public computer collection will acquire at least one of these and make it available for viewing. I would be happy to help in the rescue if anyone here decides to buy one. I would even consider contributing to the purchase and transportation of a machine if it ends up in a publicly accessible museum or collection. Begin forwarded message: > From: FThomas470@aol.com > Date: Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:41:17 AM US/Eastern > To: dbetz@xlisper.mv.com > Subject: Monrobot XI details > > This is in response to the great interest we've received regarding the > Monorobt XI computers that we have and for which we would like to > find a good home > . > > For disposal, currently we have 6 complete computers plus 1 that has > been > partly cannabilized for parts. > > Each unit consists of a main processing unit which is about the size > of an > office desk and weighs about 500 lbs. It contains all of the > electronics and the > memory drum which has 1000 bytes of 32 bits each. It has 3 input and 3 > output > ports. The circuitry consists of about a hundred unpluggable pc boards > containing readily available discrete components, primarily ordinary > transistors of > several types. > > On the top of the unit is the control panel or console. It has 8 > lighted > push-buttons, switches, and indicator lights. > > A side desk or return can be attached to main unit in several ways. It > holds > the I/O typerwriter and contains a Friden paper tape punch unit and a > tape > reader in slide-out drawers. > > Four units have the original I/O typewriter, which is the IBM model A > with > a Soroban translating mechanism added to it's bottom. It plugged > directly into > the main processor. > > The other I/O typewriters are IBM Selectrics and have an interface > unit. > These don't use the standard ASCII code but use IBM's Manifest > character set. It's > caps only and was designed for use with forms and invoices. Otherwise, > the > Selectrics are standard in every way. > > In addition, we have three Monroe magnetic card readers for the above. > These > used magnetic cards the size of the standard IBM punched card and had > 96 > addressable 32 bit registers. > > The most important fact is that we have a complete set of manuals for > the > above. There are detailed technical manuals on the design and > operation of these > units and the various components, as well as service and repair > information. > We also have manuals for many diagnostic and utility programs as well > as > customer installation manuals. We have instruction and program manuals > for various > applications, such as general accounting, various business programs, > Fortran > and a programming language with compiler. > > The above printed matter consists of roughly 2000 sheets (1000 > double-side) > in loose-leaf form. We have estimates for making copies that vary from > 4 to 6 > cents per side, which would be about $100 per set. > > All of the above units were in working condition when they were stored > away > about 14 years ago and none seem to have been damaged in the interim. > However, > in most units, the slides for the tape punches and readers have been > removed > at some time in the past. These are standard hardware and should be > easy to > replace. > > We have not turned any of them on because the bearings of the high > speed > magnetic drum are delicate. If the lubrication used is solidified or > oxidized in > any way, the bearings could easily be damaged, which could be a > problem. > Before use, they should be cleaned and reoiled with very high quality > oil, which is > not difficult to do. The original specs called for synthetic (or real) > porpoise oil, whatever that is. > > We are offering them for sale and would like to know what the > interested > parties feel they would be worth. We don't wish to start a bidding war > of any > kind, but want only to establish a price for these remarkable, > historic machines > that would fair and reasonable to all. > > Finally, these units are being offered AS IS, and whoever wishes to > have one > or more of them will have to be responsible for the shipping, which we > would > help arrange. > > If you are interested or wish to have more information, please email > us at > thomasduplex@aol.com. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 23 10:46:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Siemens System 4004 on Willy Wonka In-Reply-To: <3EF6E79E.21301.14A9ED03@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > Well, I hate to correct you in public, Sallam, but there's a litte > numbertwist. The first one was the 2002 from the mid 50s. The 4004 > series (2002 was just one model, and the 3003 as followup also), > was rather a plain /360 ripoff Siemens bought from RCA (and thus Ah yes, I remember now. Far be it from me to not be able to take public correction. I'd rather be corrected than let erroneous information be submitted into the record. > As some may know, I'm still not realy in favor for the way the > mordern parts of the computing exhibition has been displayed, > but nonetheless, the Deutsches Museum is worth several visits. They do have a rather fabulous computer history exhibit. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 23 11:27:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Making holes in magnetic tape Message-ID: <200306231622.JAA05358@clulw009.amd.com> Hi John Although it is a serious issue if the tape is folded where the signals are, where the holes are isn't. Just fold the tape in two diagonal directions and cut it with sizzors. The hole will be a square but the computer doesn't care. You'll need to erase the tape and reformat. Dwight >From: John > >Hi, > >I have some DC100A type cartridges for my HP-85, but at the start of the >tape the magnetic coating has come away where the drive belt has been left >in contact with the same part of the tape for too long. > >I have figured out the pattern of holes in the end of the tape used by the >optical sensor to detect EOT. I would like to punch a new set of holes away >from the damaged area and see if the rest of the tape is usable. > >So any tips please on making suitable holes in the tape, my attempts so far >with a pin have not been a great success..... > >Thanks, >John From david_comley at yahoo.com Mon Jun 23 11:44:00 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Format HP tapes (was Making holes in magnetic tape) In-Reply-To: <200306231622.JAA05358@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030623163942.94642.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com> > You'll need > to erase the tape and reformat. How does one format HP tapes ? I have two formatted cartridges which already contain data (and holes) and a stack of unformatted ones (hole status unknown) I want to use with my HP64000. Unsurprisingly there's no utility named 'format-tape' or anything that leaps out and suggests itself as a candidate. Anyone have anything that might do this ? Dave From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jun 23 13:15:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: VAX DSSI dyssentary? In-Reply-To: <000c01c338d7$68e70300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001901c339b2$cb9e0a80$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Noticing now that one set of tests is in dec. (boot) and > one's in hex. (this one), then 59=3B, and we get 'test not > shown'. If somebodies' got a book to crack on this one that > might be needed. You can search at http://vt100.net/manx if you want a goodly selection of relevant manuals. "KA660" and "VAX 4000 200" will pull up the relevant manuals. Happy reading. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 23 14:21:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Format HP tapes (was Making holes in magnetic tape) In-Reply-To: <20030623163942.94642.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200306231622.JAA05358@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030623151615.477ff362@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The name of the command that HP commonly uses to format tapes is Initialize. On the systems that I'm familar with, it's a built-in command and you will not see a file by that name. Joe At 09:39 AM 6/23/03 -0700, you wrote: >> You'll need >> to erase the tape and reformat. > >How does one format HP tapes ? I have two formatted >cartridges which already contain data (and holes) and >a stack of unformatted ones (hole status unknown) I >want to use with my HP64000. Unsurprisingly there's no >utility named 'format-tape' or anything that leaps out >and suggests itself as a candidate. Anyone have >anything that might do this ? > >Dave From elwood at sprhill.net Mon Jun 23 16:05:00 2003 From: elwood at sprhill.net (Dayton Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: B&C Microsystems UP200 Message-ID: <000d01c3392a$e46156e0$913e503f@bedroom> Dear sir, I saw your post about software for the UP200 and UP600 I need this software. Thanks, DR From m_thompson at ids.net Mon Jun 23 16:06:15 2003 From: m_thompson at ids.net (Michael Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: TU20 on PDP-9 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030622223722.00a342c0@155.212.1.107> I put some pictures of the TU20 tape drive for the PDP-9 at: http://ricm.museum.com/collections/pdp-9/pdp-9.html I was a little surprised to see the HP label on the transport. Michael Thompson E-Mail: M_Thompson@IDS.net From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jun 23 16:06:50 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Looking for Burroughs B20/BTOS software/hardware/docs In-Reply-To: <1056237559.3ef4e7f7cb3dc@webmail.snowmoose.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Alan Perry > Sent: 22 June 2003 00:19 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Looking for Burroughs B20/BTOS software/hardware/docs > > > I am getting a gaggle of Burroughs B20/BTOS machines through > eBay. I developed > software on them for Burroughs back in the late 80s. Didn't > really care for > the machines at the time, but I thought the expansion capability by > adding "slices" was pretty neat. > > Does anyone have any B20 "slices" or any BTOS/CTOS software or > documentation > that they want to sell? Hi Alan, Whereabouts on this planet are you? I've got an absolute stack of B20 and BTOS stuff that doesn't fit in my museum 'cos they're not home computers. There's even a spare B20, replacement hard drive and motherboard.... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From dan.fellman at lmco.com Mon Jun 23 16:07:27 2003 From: dan.fellman at lmco.com (Fellman, Dan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 Message-ID: <5A3F0DA7A94E304BA1D9D2DF87D69B911EB16B@EMSS01M14.us.lmco.com> Hi, I came across your 8008/8080 web page while searching for info on old Tektronix logic analyzers. I recently bought a model 1220 analyzer on eBay which is very similar to the 1230 you describe. It didn't come with pods or probes, but I thought I might be able to improvise something. After some study of the front panel connector with an ohmmeter and voltmeter, I believe I've identified the data lines, power and ground, and some other inputs that must be used for clocks and control signals, but the analyzer doesn't respond to any of the signals I feed in. It seems to have some mechanism for recognizing that a compatible Tek pod is attached. The input channels just show up as "unused" when I attempt to acquire data. I suppose it could be some setup step I'm missing, but I don't see anything on the various menus that looks like a pod enable. I'd appreciate any insight you can give me into this problem. Also, are you aware of other pods that go with these units besides the P6444's? Thanks, Dan From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 23 16:37:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: TU20 on PDP-9 Message-ID: <200306232135.h5NLZAjw008195@spies.com> interesting.. HP 2020's are 7 tracks.. Could you take a look at the head stack? Looks like all they used was the mechanical transport. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Jun 23 16:47:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 Message-ID: > Hi, > > I came across your 8008/8080 web page while searching for ... I've noticed a fair number of these types of posts lately. Basically it comes down to the address munging that's being done to prevent spammers from harvesting is also preventing legitimate browsers from identifying the authors of messages individually. I'm not sure if anyone wants this fixed, but couldn't we perform some form of reversible modification to the email address? Perhaps turning cctalk@classiccmp.org into cctalk2003ATclassiccmpDOTorg would fool the harvesters and allow people to reply to an individual. Just a thought, Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Jun 23 16:58:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: TU20 on PDP-9 In-Reply-To: <200306232135.h5NLZAjw008195@spies.com> References: <200306232135.h5NLZAjw008195@spies.com> Message-ID: <1412.4.20.168.173.1056405261.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Al Kossow" wrote: > interesting.. HP 2020's are 7 tracks.. IIRC, the TU20 was 7-track and the TU30 was 9-track. Since the TU20 is apparently an HP 2020 transport, presumably the TU30 is an HP 3030 transport. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 23 18:03:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Erik Klein wrote: > I'm not sure if anyone wants this fixed, but couldn't we perform some > form of reversible modification to the email address? Perhaps turning > cctalk@classiccmp.org into cctalk2003ATclassiccmpDOTorg would fool the > harvesters and allow people to reply to an individual. You don't think the spammers have thought of that already? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jun 23 18:25:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 In-Reply-To: "Erik Klein" "Re: Tek 1230" (Jun 23, 14:43) References: Message-ID: <10306240020.ZM20984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 23, 14:43, Erik Klein wrote: > I've noticed a fair number of these types of posts lately. Basically > it comes down to the address munging that's being done to prevent > spammers from harvesting is also preventing legitimate browsers from > identifying the authors of messages individually. > > I'm not sure if anyone wants this fixed, but couldn't we perform some > form of reversible modification to the email address? Perhaps turning > cctalk@classiccmp.org into cctalk2003ATclassiccmpDOTorg would fool the > harvesters and allow people to reply to an individual. I'd like to see it fixed. I've had occasional useful contacts from people who've seen my address in the archive, and I'd rather see it munged in some human-reversible way than simply replaced with the mailing list address. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jun 23 18:30:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: webby list archive administrivia (was Re: Tek 1230) In-Reply-To: "Erik Klein"'s message of "Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:43:02 -0700" References: Message-ID: <200306232304.h5NN4R8e086329@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Erik Klein" wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I came across your 8008/8080 web page while searching for ... > > I've noticed a fair number of these types of posts lately. Basically > it comes down to the address munging that's being done to prevent > spammers from harvesting is also preventing legitimate browsers from > identifying the authors of messages individually. No, they can identify the author by name. What it really comes down to is that the address munging provides a mailto: link which makes it easy for folks who find the archive pages to generate an e-mail message to the list (which is OK), and that these folks don't realize that they're about to post to a mailing list and that providing some context would be a good thing. If they realized that, they could perhaps write "w/r/t foo's message to this list on date mm/dd/yy on the matter of bar" or even copy and paste some of the webby archive page into the message. What might be helpful would be for the webby archive pages to not have that link right next to the poster's name, but instead to have a "post a follow-up to this message" link somewhere on the page. I have no idea how to do this using pipermail though. -Frank McConnell From n8uhn at yahoo.com Mon Jun 23 21:37:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card In-Reply-To: <20030623170000.5988.69371.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> With all this talk about newer gear - i thought i'd post a want for a p1 machine. i am looking for a "cheap" dual cpu card for the compaq prolient 1500 server i have. compaq uses a card that holds the simm's and cpu. i have the single cpu card but it only allows a 90 mhz p1 - the dual card allows faster cpu's and will work with a single cpu. Bill From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Jun 23 21:55:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <017f01c339fb$71948840$947ba8c0@p933> I'm sure they have, but do they really bother programming their harvester software for that type of intelligence? I doubt it. I'm sure we can come up with some algorithm that people can reverse but that the bots can't decipher or even recognize as emails. . . Just turning every "a" to a "z" and every "z" to an "a" should confuse them enough. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 3:54 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Tek 1230 On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Erik Klein wrote: > I'm not sure if anyone wants this fixed, but couldn't we perform some > form of reversible modification to the email address? Perhaps turning > cctalk@classiccmp.org into cctalk2003ATclassiccmpDOTorg would fool the > harvesters and allow people to reply to an individual. You don't think the spammers have thought of that already? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Jun 23 22:23:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card References: <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EF7C300.7030002@eoni.com> Now if you were looking for the second best, I could help you out... Anyone interested in an AST Manhattan server? Dual p-90s. It'll be on topic in two years. Bill Allen Jr wrote: >With all this talk about newer gear - i thought >i'd post a want for a p1 machine. > > >i am looking for a "cheap" dual cpu card for the >compaq prolient 1500 server i have. > >compaq uses a card that holds the simm's and cpu. > >i have the single cpu card but it only allows a 90 mhz >p1 - the dual card allows faster cpu's and will work >with a single cpu. > > >Bill > >. From kurtk7 at visi.com Tue Jun 24 01:50:00 2003 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Seeking a Cromemco C-10 Message-ID: <1056437122.3ef7f382f1fc9@my.visi.com> I have been looking for a C-10 for some time but lost out in a recent auction. My bad luck, so I doesn't suppose anyone might know where I can find another C- 10. I know its a long shot but I thought I would ask. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Kurt From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 24 04:21:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Reading various format 5.25" floppies on a PC In-Reply-To: <20030617002305.10578.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030624021357.00a35700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Whenever I hear about reading various format floppies, I fall back to thinking how neat it would be to REALLY understand and use some of these darn Daynafile boxes I have. The one currently sitting nearest to me is SCSI connection, with 360k and 1.2M drives. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 24 07:49:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Tek 1230 In-Reply-To: <017f01c339fb$71948840$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I'm sure they have, but do they really bother programming their > harvester software for that type of intelligence? I doubt it. Yes, they do. > I'm sure we can come up with some algorithm that people can reverse but > that the bots can't decipher or even recognize as emails. . . Just > turning every "a" to a "z" and every "z" to an "a" should confuse them > enough. Like I've always said, it's much easier to just find and kill all the spammers. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From anheier at owt.com Tue Jun 24 08:57:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: National Instruments Cards available Message-ID: I have a bunch of older National Instrument data acquisition cards available. Best offer or trade for older CPU processors. NB-GPIB, macintosh Nubus GPIB card AT-AO-6/10, ISA bus analog output card PC-TIO-10, ISA bus timer/counter card. I have manuals, cables, and signal breakouts for some of these. thanks Norm From anheier at owt.com Tue Jun 24 09:01:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: more stuff available Message-ID: These are available, $5 each + shipping or trade for older CPU processors. Nicolet NICE in circuit emulator for the Z80. Nice hard case with manual, no software. Norton trouble shooter software version4.5 on 5 1/4" floppies, with manual Datarase II UV EPROM eraser with power supply. Thanks Norm From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 09:07:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Stuff Available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030624140245.64995.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Got the ZX81. Thanks. Not sure I have your address to send the i960 to. Cheers, -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 09:10:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Stuff Available In-Reply-To: <20030624140245.64995.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030624140549.10853.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > Got the ZX81... Whoops... supposed to be person-to-person. Not dumbass-to-entire-list. :-) -ethan From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jun 24 10:28:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Fwd: Monrobot XI details In-Reply-To: <31FEC0A6-A582-11D7-8E60-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030624102234.01992e70@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi David, I sent some email to the address in your post, but have no heard back yet. Do you know where in VA the machines are located? Do you know if others are also interested in one or more of these? --tnx --tom At 09:54 AM 6/23/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Here is the latest information on the Monrobot XI computers that have >become available in Virginia. I'm afraid that while I am quite interested >in these, I will probably be unable to acquire one. It seems they are >interested in selling them rather than giving them away to good homes. Any >reasonable sale price in addition to the considerable cost of shipping a >500 pound machine will probably put them out of my price range. I'm hoping >that some public computer collection will acquire at least one of these >and make it available for viewing. I would be happy to help in the rescue >if anyone here decides to buy one. I would even consider contributing to >the purchase and transportation of a machine if it ends up in a publicly >accessible museum or collection. > >Begin forwarded message: > >>From: FThomas470@aol.com >>Date: Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:41:17 AM US/Eastern >>To: dbetz@xlisper.mv.com >>Subject: Monrobot XI details >> >>This is in response to the great interest we've received regarding the >>Monorobt XI computers that we have and for which we would like to >>find a good home >>. >> >>For disposal, currently we have 6 complete computers plus 1 that has been >>partly cannabilized for parts. >> >>Each unit consists of a main processing unit which is about the size of an >>office desk and weighs about 500 lbs. It contains all of the electronics >>and the >>memory drum which has 1000 bytes of 32 bits each. It has 3 input and 3 output >>ports. The circuitry consists of about a hundred unpluggable pc boards >>containing readily available discrete components, primarily ordinary >>transistors of >>several types. >> >>On the top of the unit is the control panel or console. It has 8 lighted >>push-buttons, switches, and indicator lights. >> >>A side desk or return can be attached to main unit in several ways. It holds >>the I/O typerwriter and contains a Friden paper tape punch unit and a tape >>reader in slide-out drawers. >> >>Four units have the original I/O typewriter, which is the IBM model A with >>a Soroban translating mechanism added to it's bottom. It plugged directly >>into >>the main processor. >> >>The other I/O typewriters are IBM Selectrics and have an interface unit. >>These don't use the standard ASCII code but use IBM's Manifest character >>set. It's >>caps only and was designed for use with forms and invoices. Otherwise, the >>Selectrics are standard in every way. >> >>In addition, we have three Monroe magnetic card readers for the above. These >>used magnetic cards the size of the standard IBM punched card and had 96 >>addressable 32 bit registers. >> >>The most important fact is that we have a complete set of manuals for the >>above. There are detailed technical manuals on the design and operation >>of these >>units and the various components, as well as service and repair information. >>We also have manuals for many diagnostic and utility programs as well as >>customer installation manuals. We have instruction and program manuals >>for various >>applications, such as general accounting, various business programs, Fortran >>and a programming language with compiler. >> >>The above printed matter consists of roughly 2000 sheets (1000 double-side) >>in loose-leaf form. We have estimates for making copies that vary from 4 to 6 >>cents per side, which would be about $100 per set. >> >>All of the above units were in working condition when they were stored away >>about 14 years ago and none seem to have been damaged in the interim. >>However, >>in most units, the slides for the tape punches and readers have been removed >>at some time in the past. These are standard hardware and should be easy to >>replace. >> >>We have not turned any of them on because the bearings of the high speed >>magnetic drum are delicate. If the lubrication used is solidified or >>oxidized in >>any way, the bearings could easily be damaged, which could be a problem. >>Before use, they should be cleaned and reoiled with very high quality >>oil, which is >>not difficult to do. The original specs called for synthetic (or real) >>porpoise oil, whatever that is. >> >>We are offering them for sale and would like to know what the interested >>parties feel they would be worth. We don't wish to start a bidding war of any >>kind, but want only to establish a price for these remarkable, historic >>machines >>that would fair and reasonable to all. >> >>Finally, these units are being offered AS IS, and whoever wishes to have one >>or more of them will have to be responsible for the shipping, which we would >>help arrange. >> >>If you are interested or wish to have more information, please email us at >>thomasduplex@aol.com. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jun 24 13:06:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card References: <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF7C300.7030002@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3EF892DF.5010204@gifford.co.uk> Jim wrote: > Anyone interested in an AST Manhattan server? Dual p-90s. It'll be on > topic in two years. Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Jun 24 14:21:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card References: <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF7C300.7030002@eoni.com> <3EF892DF.5010204@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3EF8A38F.5000203@eoni.com> I don't remember... The timeframe's right though. Jim John Honniball wrote: > Jim wrote: > >> Anyone interested in an AST Manhattan server? Dual p-90s. It'll be on >> topic in two years. > > > Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide > bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > . From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 14:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? Message-ID: <20030624192846.75691.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> I've been to Al's repository on spies.com and found a few documents, but I'm looking for some info on a variety of Emulex disk controllers. The level of detail I'm at is what controllers support which drives and emulate which DEC interfaces... I.e. - I have an SC21 on the way that emulates an RH11/RH70 and lets me talk to a variety of SMD drives as if they were RM02/RM03/RM05/RM80 drives. I also have a QD34 that was an entire Pound that I'd like to press into service, but I have no cables... I was contemplating removing the I/O transition board and fabricating a "standard" A&B cable connector interface (60 pin/multi-26-pin). I'm also curious to get a reference to other controllers in case I see them float by... most of the ones for sale lack specifics due to seller ignorance. Thanks, -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 14:37:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Trying to help a new VAX-11/750 owner Message-ID: <20030624193252.87261.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> A friend of mine at work got the 11/750 recently offered for free in Pittsburg. I don't yet know how it's loaded except for the L0022 mem controller and 14MB of RAM. My friend would _like_ to get a CI750 for it, since he already has an HSJ40 at home. Barring that, he's considering the $$$ for a Unibus SCSI controller. Besides the actual L0009 card, I'm reading that there appears to be an external enclosure to house part of the CI750. My 750s were always a local-disk affairs (UDA50/SI9900/etc). I have no experience with CI hardware and don't know what advice to give him. Can anyone here describe what you need to pull this all together (he already has an SC008 and cables). I'll try to get him on the list... he currently has about a dozen Alpha Servers and is in the process of working backward in time in the DEC world. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 14:41:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: 5.25" SMD drives Message-ID: <20030624193658.73696.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Oops... wrong key... I have an SC21 on the way (as I mentioned elsewhere). I have some 10" and 14" SMD drives I could steal from an SI9900, but I'd like to find some lower-power drives to play with - I'm thinking 2BSD on a Unibus PDP-11, so anything from a couple-hundred megs and up would be great. Are there any non-SMD-E drives in the the 5.25" size? Would anyone know where I could pick up a couple? I remember there were SMD drives up to 600MB in that size, but I don't have part numbers and I don't remember the exact interface type (I just remember the ads on Usenet where the seller was warning people that these 600MB-for-$600 drives would *not* work on your PC). Thanks for any help locating some smallish SMD hardware, -ethan From bernd at kopriva.de Tue Jun 24 14:41:22 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card In-Reply-To: <3EF892DF.5010204@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200306241940.h5OJekZ16035@huey.classiccmp.org> I think, the fdiv bug existed in some revisions of Pentiums upto 100 MHz (60, 66, 75, 90 or 100MHz) ... Bernd On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:05:19 +0100, John Honniball wrote: >Jim wrote: >> Anyone interested in an AST Manhattan server? Dual p-90s. It'll be on >> topic in two years. > >Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide >bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk Bernd Kopriva Tel: 07195 / 179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail : bernd@kopriva.de 71397 Leutenbach From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 14:44:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Systems Industries CS-1? Message-ID: <20030624193941.78195.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> I have this dual-height Qbus card that I was told was a SCSI card (got it from a former boss). It has a 50-pin connector and gives the appearance of being a SCSI card, but I can't find any docs on it online. The logo reminds me of Systems Industries', and the model number appears to be "CS-1". I checked with Al's site and there's no SI docs there at all. There's a good chance that this is a TMSCP device, not an MSCP device, but I don't know that for sure. Is this board familar to anyone? -ethan From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jun 24 15:50:01 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: Rodime 552 drive interface? In-Reply-To: <099701c3222f$e8301b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <099701c3222f$e8301b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: All, a friend of mine had a question this group is probably best to answer: ------------- I am trying to determine the type of interface on an old Rodime 552 drive. It has 26 pins. SCSI has 50. IDE has 40. The old MFM used two cables, not one so I don't think it's MFM. I did find a listing for it at one of the surplus places in a table which lists interfaces, but all it said was "26 pin". I'm trying to figure out if the thing is actually one of the more common interfaces with a funny connector--perhaps all the GND pins have been combined into one reducing the pin count. This model of drive is found in the old Apple Hard Disk 20, which was the ancient floppy drive interface external hard drive used on Mac 128Ks and 512Ks before the Plus with SCSI came out. ---------------- any help for him? Thanks in advance, - Mark From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jun 24 16:01:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:32 2005 Subject: OT: Ebay Search Engine Message-ID: Has anyone on this list been having problems with the Ebay Search Engine within the last week or so? Wildcard searches, typically using two wildcards, are not working for me anymore, typically returning 0 hits. Apparently others have been having some problems, as seen on the Ebay discussion boards. Ebay tech support is being less than helpful. "Well, it works for us". Please reply off list (although I know this will now start an Ebay sucks thread). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jun 24 16:19:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Trying to help a new VAX-11/750 owner In-Reply-To: <20030624193252.87261.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c33a95$964617e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Besides the actual L0009 card, I'm reading that there appears > to be an external enclosure to house part of the CI750. My > 750s were always a local-disk affairs (UDA50/SI9900/etc). I > have no experience with CI hardware and don't know what > advice to give him. Can anyone here describe what you need > to pull this all together (he already has an SC008 and cables). You can find at least some of the necessary information by poking around in Manx (http://vt100.net/manx) and searching for 750. I know I scanned some related VAX-11/780 material (like maybe the CI780 docs) and that should show up. The basic gist is that you have the appropriate CI interface in the system (CI750 in your friend's case) and two cables (A & B) to the SC008 (which is in essence a transformer coupler). Do the same for other systems you wish to connect. You almost certainly want some form of HSC (HSC50/60/70/90) connected to the SC008 and hang disks off the HSC. You may be lucky enough to find an HSJ, which IIRC will connect to the SC008 and you can hook SCSI disks to it, which reduces some of the hassles of finding and maintaining SDI drives. (Of course, if you are trying to get a 750 running, you may well like these hassles!). You can hook some Alpha boxes to the SC008 too. The CIPCA is a PCI CI adapter. There is also (again IIRC) an EISA CI board. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 16:28:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Trying to help a new VAX-11/750 owner In-Reply-To: <000801c33a95$964617e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20030624212418.6928.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > You can find at least some of the necessary information by > poking around in Manx (http://vt100.net/manx) and searching for > 750. Thanks. > The basic gist is that you have the appropriate CI interface > in the system (CI750 in your friend's case) and two cables (A & B) > to the SC008 (which is in essence a transformer coupler). Right... my concern was a reference I ran into that there was some external active equipment. I've seen CI coax cables on the back of some VAXen, but it wasn't clear to me that the 750 contained all the gear necessary to provide the same interface. > You almost certainly want some form of HSC (HSC50/60/70/90) connected > to the SC008 and hang disks off the HSC. You may be lucky enough to > find an HSJ, which IIRC will connect to the SC008 and you can hook > SCSI disks to it... I think I did mention that he has an HSJ40 (as well as an HSZ40). That was the plan > You can hook some Alpha boxes to the SC008 too. The CIPCA is a > PCI CI adapter. There is also (again IIRC) an EISA CI board. He would *love* to find a CIPCA for his Alpha servers. -ethan From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jun 24 16:45:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Trying to help a new VAX-11/750 owner In-Reply-To: <20030624212418.6928.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 24, 2003 02:24:18 PM Message-ID: <20030624213824.F1DFD7F83@dittman.net> > > You can hook some Alpha boxes to the SC008 too. The CIPCA is a > > PCI CI adapter. There is also (again IIRC) an EISA CI board. > > He would *love* to find a CIPCA for his Alpha servers. I know a lot of people that would like to find a cheap CIPCA. I can get an HSG80 controller, in shelf, and a couple of KGPSA cards for less than a CIPCA. With VMS V7.3-1, you can use FCAL so a switch isn't even needed. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jun 24 16:46:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card In-Reply-To: <3EF8A38F.5000203@eoni.com> References: <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF7C300.7030002@eoni.com> <3EF892DF.5010204@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030624144307.02f76600@mail.zipcon.net> >Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide >>bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? nope, P-60's From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jun 24 16:47:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Rodime 552 drive interface? In-Reply-To: References: <099701c3222f$e8301b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> <099701c3222f$e8301b60$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030624144424.03032ec0@mail.zipcon.net> it looks like a mac floppy drive to the outside world, that's the interface, it emulates a BIG floppy :) At 03:45 PM 6/24/03 -0500, you wrote: >All, > a friend of mine had a question this group is probably best to > answer: > >------------- >I am trying to determine the type of interface on an old Rodime 552 >drive. It has 26 pins. SCSI has 50. IDE has 40. The old MFM used >two cables, not one so I don't think it's MFM. I did find a listing for >it at one of the surplus places in a table which lists interfaces, but all >it said was "26 pin". I'm trying to figure out if the thing is >actually one of the more common interfaces with a funny connector--perhaps >all the GND pins have been combined into one reducing the pin count. > >This model of drive is found in the old Apple Hard Disk 20, which was the >ancient floppy drive interface external hard drive used on Mac 128Ks and >512Ks before the Plus with SCSI came out. >---------------- > > any help for him? Thanks in advance, > - Mark From emu at ecubics.com Tue Jun 24 17:06:01 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card References: <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF7C300.7030002@eoni.com> <3EF892DF.5010204@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3EF8CAC7.7060702@ecubics.com> John Honniball wrote: > Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide > bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? All of this crap was/is crap ;-) Pentiums produced before 1995 had additionally the FDIV BUG ;-) Please have a look at: http://support.intel.com/support/processors/Pentium/fdiv/index.htm From djenner at earthlink.net Tue Jun 24 17:39:00 2003 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Reference for IBM PC/AT Prototype Adapter (16bit version) Message-ID: <3EF8D206.F6E8DA0A@earthlink.net> Does anyone have the technical reference for the 16-bit version of the PC/AT prototype adapter, part 6450220? Or a pointer to it online? Thanks, Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jun 24 17:42:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: 5.25" SMD drives In-Reply-To: <20030624193658.73696.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 21:36:58 CEST References: <20030624193658.73696.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030625003111.G297519@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.24 21:36 Ethan Dicks wrote: > Are there any non-SMD-E drives in the the 5.25" size? I have a Hitachi 514s of around 380 MB and a Seagate 1.2 GB 5.25" disk. I think they are both SMD-E. If anybody has any detaild information about the Seagate ST-41097J or ST-41201J bejond "st41097j.txt" or "st41201j.txt" please share it with me. I have no description of the DIP switches, so I can't use the drive. But a 1 GB 5.25" SMD disk would be so nice on one of my PDP-11s or VAXen... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jun 24 17:42:22 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? In-Reply-To: <20030624192846.75691.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 21:28:46 CEST References: <20030624192846.75691.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030624235634.E297519@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.24 21:28 Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm looking for some info on a variety of Emulex disk controllers. I have the manuals for the QD32 and QD33 (SMD to MSCP) as well as the QT14 (Pertec tape to TS11 or TMSCP). I can scan them if I get back the ADF for my scanner... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 24 17:53:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Reference for IBM PC/AT Prototype Adapter (16bit version) In-Reply-To: <3EF8D206.F6E8DA0A@earthlink.net> from "David C. Jenner" at Jun 24, 3 03:34:46 pm Message-ID: > Does anyone have the technical reference for the 16-bit version > of the PC/AT prototype adapter, part 6450220? Or a pointer to > it online? I'm pretty sure I have it. IIRC, though, it's just buffers and maybe address decoder circuits, so it should be trivial to reverse-engineer the card, if you need to know what signals appear on what solder pads, etc The TechRef is nothing more than the physical dimensions of the card and the schematic of the IBM-built part. There are no examples of how to use it, or anything like that. -tony From hansp at citem.org Tue Jun 24 18:05:01 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: TU20 on PDP-9 In-Reply-To: <1412.4.20.168.173.1056405261.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200306232135.h5NLZAjw008195@spies.com> <1412.4.20.168.173.1056405261.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3EF7D9C0.3050602@citem.org> Eric Smith wrote: > "Al Kossow" wrote: >>interesting.. HP 2020's are 7 tracks.. > IIRC, the TU20 was 7-track and the TU30 was 9-track. Since > the TU20 is apparently an HP 2020 transport, presumably the > TU30 is an HP 3030 transport. I can confirm that our TU20 is an HP OEM 7 track drive. -- hbp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jun 24 18:05:45 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Burroughs B21 workstations available, UK In-Reply-To: <000201c31668$67b2d950$8cdd86d9@graemedntzltme> Message-ID: Hi folks, Alan Perry's message about Burroughs stuff has reminded me I've got loads of it here that I'd like to keep but there's just too much of it and it doesn't fit in the museum's ethos, so it's available free to a good home, UK only and collection preferred from the Newcastle area. Of course I don't mind shipping as long as full shipping costs are paid by the interested party, though I imagine they'd not be far short of 'an arm and a leg' :) Rough list: B21 workstation, working and tested. B21 workstation believed to be broken but I've not taken it out of its box since it was sent here a couple of years ago. Full BTOS doc set including languages and compilers. Boxes of floppies including a couple of BTOS distros. Spare motherboard Spare hard drive Might be other bits lurking in there! Someone here will undoubtedly get more use out of them than I will.... Ade? Fancy putting 'em in yer warehouse? :o) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From kromemail at shaw.ca Tue Jun 24 18:06:07 2003 From: kromemail at shaw.ca (Krome Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Realistic MPA-35 owners manual Message-ID: <000001c33a5f$bddbf940$3e00a8c0@ted> Hi Chris, If you still have an owner's manual for the Realistic MPA-35 I would sure appreciate a copy. Thank you. T. Moore From jismay at unixboxen.net Tue Jun 24 18:06:31 2003 From: jismay at unixboxen.net (jismay@unixboxen.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030624144307.02f76600@mail.zipcon.net> References: <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF7C300.7030002@eoni.com> <3EF892DF.5010204@gifford.co.uk> <5.1.1.6.2.20030624144307.02f76600@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <1279.64.58.154.243.1056492303.squirrel@webmail.unixboxen.com> >>Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide >>>bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? > > nope, P-60's I have personally seen a P-90 with the FDIV bug so... To Sleep, Perchance to Dream. For in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we shuffle off this mortal coil must give us pause From marvin at rain.org Tue Jun 24 18:30:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: OT: Ebay Search Engine References: Message-ID: <3EF8DDFB.6F2B308E@rain.org> Ebay has been having more trouble than usual with their search engine. You might try doing the search, and then on the page showing no entries, press the search button there. Of course, another solution is to avoid ebay :). William Donzelli wrote: > > Has anyone on this list been having problems with the Ebay Search > Engine within the last week or so? > > Wildcard searches, typically using two wildcards, are not working for me > anymore, typically returning 0 hits. Apparently others have been having > some problems, as seen on the Ebay discussion boards. > > Ebay tech support is being less than helpful. "Well, it works for us". > > Please reply off list (although I know this will now start an Ebay sucks > thread). > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org -- ------------------------------------------- ebaY's Security Breach and Coverup http://www.auctionguild.com/generic110.html SellYourItem.com - Your Member Driven Auction Community! http://www.sellyouritem.com From alanp at snowmoose.com Tue Jun 24 18:32:00 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Burroughs B21 workstations available, UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1056496866.3ef8dce2699e5@webmail.snowmoose.com> I picked up my B25, B26 and B38 today. They also came with a third-party data storage system with a relatively large disk and a bernoulli drive (plus disks/cartridges for the bernoulli). Just have to figure out how I am getting everything from CT back to Seattle. I would love the docs and s/w and would be willing to pay shipping. However, the hardware would be a pain to send as well (though, as much as I dislike the earlier B20 machines compared to the later ones, a B21 would make my collection more complete) and I am sure whoever gets the h/w would also like the s/w. alan Quoting Witchy : > Hi folks, > > Alan Perry's message about Burroughs stuff has reminded me I've got loads of > it here that I'd like to keep but there's just too much of it and it doesn't > fit in the museum's ethos, so it's available free to a good home, UK only > and collection preferred from the Newcastle area. Of course I don't mind > shipping as long as full shipping costs are paid by the interested party, > though I imagine they'd not be far short of 'an arm and a leg' :) > > Rough list: > > B21 workstation, working and tested. > B21 workstation believed to be broken but I've not taken it out of its box > since it was sent here a couple of years ago. > Full BTOS doc set including languages and compilers. > Boxes of floppies including a couple of BTOS distros. > Spare motherboard > Spare hard drive > Might be other bits lurking in there! > > Someone here will undoubtedly get more use out of them than I will.... > > Ade? Fancy putting 'em in yer warehouse? :o) > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jun 24 18:53:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Picked up 3 EPROM programmers - Plus some other goodies Message-ID: <012e01c33aab$2ac77840$a109dd40@oemcomputer> Got lucky today and picked the following items: BYTEK Multitrk-2000 Universal EPROM programmer with 3.5 FD in the side with the software diskette in it. BYTEK 135 Multiprogrammer BYTEK MPM-1 Four Microvision games in the boxes with manuals; Connect Four, Mindbuster, Star Trek - Phaser Strike, and Bowling NEC Pinwriter P3300 From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jun 24 19:16:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card In-Reply-To: <1279.64.58.154.243.1056492303.squirrel@webmail.unixboxen.c om> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030624144307.02f76600@mail.zipcon.net> <20030624023257.89130.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF7C300.7030002@eoni.com> <3EF892DF.5010204@gifford.co.uk> <5.1.1.6.2.20030624144307.02f76600@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030624171211.0302c960@mail.zipcon.net> I didn't know that any of hte 75's or 90's had the FDIV bug... learn something new everyday At 03:05 PM 6/24/03 -0700, you wrote: > >>Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide > >>>bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? > > > > nope, P-60's >I have personally seen a P-90 with the FDIV bug so... > > >To Sleep, Perchance to Dream. For in that sleep of death what dreams may >come when we shuffle off this mortal coil must give us pause From djenner at earthlink.net Tue Jun 24 19:28:00 2003 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: 5.25" SMD drives References: <20030624193658.73696.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <20030625003111.G297519@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3EF8EB88.FDEA7646@earthlink.net> I have complete docs (User's Manual and Reference Manual, both very long) for both of the Seagate drives (the manuals cover both). And a stock of the 1.2GB drives, including power supply and cables. And QD33 Qbus adapters. I'll be glad to entertain offers for these offline, especially trades for PDP-11 equipment. Dave Jochen Kunz wrote: > > On 2003.06.24 21:36 Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Are there any non-SMD-E drives in the the 5.25" size? > I have a Hitachi 514s of around 380 MB and a Seagate 1.2 GB 5.25" disk. > I think they are both SMD-E. > > If anybody has any detaild information about the Seagate ST-41097J or > ST-41201J bejond "st41097j.txt" or "st41201j.txt" please share it with > me. I have no description of the DIP switches, so I can't use the drive. > But a 1 GB 5.25" SMD disk would be so nice on one of my PDP-11s or > VAXen... > -- > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 19:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Reference for IBM PC/AT Prototype Adapter (16bit version) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030625004848.68559.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > of the PC/AT prototype adapter, part 6450220? Or a pointer to > > it online? > > I'm pretty sure I have it. IIRC, though, it's just buffers and maybe > address decoder circuits, so it should be trivial to reverse-engineer the > card, if you need to know what signals appear on what solder pads, etc I have _a_ third-party PC/AT proto card, with select logic on one end, and a sea of holes on the other - no map of what chips go in which spots (but a couple of them should be easy to guess). I should scan it, put it on my web site, then ask if anyone has seen that model before. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 19:56:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card In-Reply-To: <1279.64.58.154.243.1056492303.squirrel@webmail.unixboxen.com> Message-ID: <20030625005157.22099.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- jismay@unixboxen.net wrote: > >>Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide > >>>bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? > > > > nope, P-60's > I have personally seen a P-90 with the FDIV bug so... I personally _own_ a P-90 with the FDIV bug. The problem is that I don't remember which one. :-( I have a quantity of old, slow Pentia. Do all P-60s have the bug? I might be able to nab one out of an old FDDI sniffer they are looking to pitch out at work (the motherboard seems to be of IBM origin and has a custom BIOS as does the FDDI card; works as a sniffer only, according to our (competent) network engineer). -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 20:01:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? In-Reply-To: <20030624235634.E297519@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030625005725.42810.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.06.24 21:28 Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I'm looking for some info on a variety of Emulex disk controllers. > I have the manuals for the QD32 and QD33 (SMD to MSCP) as well as the > QT14 (Pertec tape to TS11 or TMSCP). I can scan them if I get back the > ADF for my scanner... I should be getting QD21 docs with the QD21 card. SC21 docs are available. What I could _really_ use is QD34 docs. I can also see a QD33 in my future, since it's a) small, and b) talks to SMD-E drives. Thanks, -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 24 21:22:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: more stuff available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030624194706.4607107e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Norm, I can use the UV eraser. Let me know if it's still available. Joe At 07:08 AM 6/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >These are available, $5 each + shipping or trade for older CPU processors. > > >Nicolet NICE in circuit emulator for the Z80. Nice hard case with manual, >no software. > >Norton trouble shooter software version4.5 on 5 1/4" floppies, with manual > >Datarase II UV EPROM eraser with power supply. > >Thanks Norm From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 24 21:36:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: manual for 5 1/4" HD drive Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030624222743.516752e2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi All, I have a project in mind that I'll be using a High Density (1.2Mb) floppy drive for. But it's going to take some tinkering with the jumpers to make it work and I'll need a manual for it. Does anyone know if where I can locate a manual for any of the HD drives on-line or does anyone have a manual (or copy) that they're willing to part with? I haven't decided on any particular model or brand of drive and I have access to hundreds of different ones so I expect that it would be easier to find a manual and then find a drive to match it rather than vice versa. Joe From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jun 24 22:10:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: References: <20030620171929.GA9316@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030625030656.GA3020@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 10:12:28PM +0100: > Not always... I mentioned those I2S machines in another message. Some of > the fans in those had been powered for so long while stuck solid that the > windings had overheated and burnt out. And the bearings were in very poor > shape. Yes, I _could_ have rewound them, flash-tested them, and fitted > new bearings, but it made more sense to buy a new fan.... Yes... in a case like that, buying a new one makes much more sense, and then save the old ones for spare parts, or, for later repair in case the fans turn into unobtanium. > > ...but then, far too many people have become lazily wasteful, just > > replacing things rather than repairing them, then moaning about all of > > I hope you don't include me in that! Of course I don't! You're the one who told me how to rebuild the fans in my 11/44. :-) [grouch mode on] I was just griping about the throw-away society in which we live... "it's old and broken, so toss it out and buy new" or "he's old and not functioning properly, so dispose of him by tossing him into a nursing home," etc. It makes no sense and doesn't say much good about humanity. [grouch mode off] Just the other day, I repaired a Westclox alarm clock... the "real" type of clock with hands and a dial, not one of those blasted digital display annoyances. A very simple repair, actually, which involved replacing the neon lamp which illuminates the dial. Granted, the clock cost under US$10 IIRC, but I still think that this repair was more sensible than replacing the clock. Interestingly, I learned something interesting about failing neon lamps. The failing lamp would light in the daylight, but flicker dimly in the dark. I never realized before that neon lamps were light-sensitive. Can anyone explain this? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jun 24 22:20:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <20030625030656.GA3020@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Interestingly, I learned something interesting about failing neon > lamps. The failing lamp would light in the daylight, but flicker > dimly in the dark. I never realized before that neon lamps were > light-sensitive. Can anyone explain this? The ambient light provides just a little bit of energy and helps the neon fire. A radioactive source would do the same. Sometimes, when the tube is getting a little tired, that little bit of energy makes the difference. Some bits of older phone gear had internal lamps just to give all of the gas tubes a stable environment. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jun 24 23:30:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: OT: Ebay Search Engine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF92420.4030702@internet1.net> William Donzelli wrote: > Wildcard searches, typically using two wildcards, are not working for me > anymore, typically returning 0 hits. Apparently others have been having > some problems, as seen on the Ebay discussion boards. I've never done that. How do you do it? I typically search like this: Buick 350 -wholesale -xenon (-wholesale -xenon, get rid of most of the people selling ricer stuff) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jun 25 00:40:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: a lot of IBM 5100s for sale lately... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c33adb$a080f2c0$0100a8c0@WaynePC> > Hi all, > > there are quite some IBM 5100s for sale lately. I have seen 3 > on Ebay in the last week. Do they all come from the same > cache or is it just a coincidence? I'm just wondering since > 5100s are usually quite rarely seen... > > Does anybody know more? > > Greetings > Herbert > After Marvin got 5 large for his they all came out of the attics. -W From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jun 25 01:00:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: a lot of IBM 5100s for sale lately... References: <001f01c33adb$a080f2c0$0100a8c0@WaynePC> Message-ID: <000a01c33ade$46f4b9a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Just like any other collectable, if somebody sees its worth a few K to ebay it goes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:35 AM Subject: RE: a lot of IBM 5100s for sale lately... > > Hi all, > > > > there are quite some IBM 5100s for sale lately. I have seen 3 > > on Ebay in the last week. Do they all come from the same > > cache or is it just a coincidence? I'm just wondering since > > 5100s are usually quite rarely seen... > > > > Does anybody know more? > > > > Greetings > > Herbert > > > > After Marvin got 5 large for his they all came out of the attics. > > -W From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Jun 25 01:03:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Memory config Message-ID: <1056520769.2106.17.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Hi, I have a couple of Dataram DR-118 core boards for a PDP-8 (Omnibus). Anyone have any information on this (specifically how to jumper it for the proper addresses). I *think* it's a 16kx12 but I'm not certain. Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jun 25 04:51:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? In-Reply-To: <20030625005725.42810.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 02:57:25 CEST References: <20030624235634.E297519@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20030625005725.42810.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030625101015.K297519@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.25 02:57 Ethan Dicks wrote: > What I could _really_ use is QD34 docs. I can also see > a QD33 in my future, since it's a) small, and b) talks to SMD-E > drives. I don't know the difference from the QD33 to the QD34. But maybe the only difference is the card layout? (Like the functional identical QT13 dual QBus and the QT14 quad QBus with SBox handle.) The QD33 is dual QBus and the QD34 is listet in the field-guide as "For VAX 3500/3600" i.e. SBox. So if you want I can give you a short description of the "interresting" parts of the QD33 manual or I can scan it. The later would take a week or two (to get back my ADF). -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Jun 25 11:21:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: new listings and shipping... Message-ID: <20030625091502.F91205@agora.rdrop.com> New listings on the site - www.rdrop.com/~jimw shipping status: trip into town this past weekend got nuked, but will be in the 'big city' this coming Monday/Tuesday (business stuff - can't shift this one) so will be hitting shippers then. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From cheri-post at web.de Wed Jun 25 11:27:01 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Compaq prolient 1500 dual cpu card Message-ID: <200306251622.h5PGMhQ26848@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Nope, this bug existed on the P60 and P66. Pierre cctech@classiccmp.org schrieb am 25.06.03 01:12:46: > > Jim wrote: > > Anyone interested in an AST Manhattan server? Dual p-90s. It'll be on > > topic in two years. > > Now that's reminded me: has anybody kept any Pentiums with the divide > bug? Weren't they Pentium-90s? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk ______________________________________________________________________________ UNICEF bittet um Spenden fur die Kinder im Irak! Hier online an UNICEF spenden: https://spenden.web.de/unicef/special/?mc=021101 From cheri-post at web.de Wed Jun 25 11:33:00 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Rodime 552 drive interface? Message-ID: <200306251628.h5PGSkQ07980@mailgate5.cinetic.de> On an Seagate ST-506 (not the interface, the reel drive), I got from a Mac, I found the same strange connector. The PCB-Board had a MAC-Logo on it. What interface could this really be ? Pierre cctech@classiccmp.org schrieb am 25.06.03 01:16:06: > > it looks like a mac floppy drive to the outside world, that's the > interface, it emulates a BIG floppy :) > > At 03:45 PM 6/24/03 -0500, you wrote: > >All, > > a friend of mine had a question this group is probably best to > > answer: > > > >------------- > >I am trying to determine the type of interface on an old Rodime 552 > >drive. It has 26 pins. SCSI has 50. IDE has 40. The old MFM used > >two cables, not one so I don't think it's MFM. I did find a listing for > >it at one of the surplus places in a table which lists interfaces, but all > >it said was "26 pin". I'm trying to figure out if the thing is > >actually one of the more common interfaces with a funny connector--perhaps > >all the GND pins have been combined into one reducing the pin count. > > > >This model of drive is found in the old Apple Hard Disk 20, which was the > >ancient floppy drive interface external hard drive used on Mac 128Ks and > >512Ks before the Plus with SCSI came out. > >---------------- > > > > any help for him? Thanks in advance, > > - Mark ____________________________________________________________________________ Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail anmelden = 1qm Regenwald schuetzen! Helfen Sie mit! Nutzen Sie den Serien-Testsieger. http://user.web.de/Regenwald From cheri-post at web.de Wed Jun 25 11:39:00 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: 5.25" SMD drives Message-ID: <200306251634.h5PGYfQ21004@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Right, I also have a Hitachi DK512S-17 with 170MB, this drive is just SMD, not SMD-E. There are even specs on http://www.mbiusa.com/dk512s.html or www.pc-disk.de Pierre cctech@classiccmp.org schrieb am 25.06.03 01:17:15: > > On 2003.06.24 21:36 Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Are there any non-SMD-E drives in the the 5.25" size? > I have a Hitachi 514s of around 380 MB and a Seagate 1.2 GB 5.25" disk. > I think they are both SMD-E. > > If anybody has any detaild information about the Seagate ST-41097J or > ST-41201J bejond "st41097j.txt" or "st41201j.txt" please share it with > me. I have no description of the DIP switches, so I can't use the drive. > But a 1 GB 5.25" SMD disk would be so nice on one of my PDP-11s or > VAXen... > -- > > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ ______________________________________________________________________________ UNICEF bittet um Spenden fur die Kinder im Irak! Hier online an UNICEF spenden: https://spenden.web.de/unicef/special/?mc=021101 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 25 12:24:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship Message-ID: <20030625171959.32629.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Picked up a huge pile of old Torch hardware, software and manuals from someone today. The guy worked for the company who took things over when Torch went under way back when, and grabbed whatever he could when that company eventually disappeared too. Anyway, I've got a nice pile of spares, schematics and the like, and probably the most complete set of Torch documentation anywhere... I'll stick the documentation and software in a seperate mail and just list the hardware here. Everything needs a damn good cleaning and checking over before I attempt to see what still works! Pictures can follow in a few days, but I'm reorganising all my data at the moment and don't want to confuse myself by adding anything halfway through :-) Oh, I don't know the damn naming convention for D-type connectors, so everything's a 'D' type to me. Apologies in advance... Triple X 'prototype' -------------------- Supposedly this was a prototype of a Triple X machine used in-house by Torch, presumably for development purposes. I'm not 100% convinced yet but I haven't yet been inside it! It's built into two seperate grey metal cases (hard & floppy disk / CPU) - certainly not production-quality either, but the official badging suggests it perhaps wasn't a homebrew project either, so who knows. - Top metal case houses hard disk and floppy in metal case; rear just has power and 50-pin SCSI connector. - Bottom slice is the CPU box; there's a standard-looking Triple X keyboard attached (cable runs through a hole in the case). The front has power LED only and stuck-on label reading: "XXX iss.2 in disguise" :-) The rear has the following with 'proper' lettering: 50 pin SCSI running to disk unit Low-volts out (via bodged connector) for disk unit "Video" (small hole in case only) "Torchnet" (small hole in case only) "Disc interface" (blanked off) RS423 (25-w D female) Parallel (25-w D female) RGB (round DIN, 8 pin) Cassette (round DIN, 7 pin) Reset button (I assume) Mains AC input Power switch "Torch Hard Disc" ----------------- This thing weighs one hell of a lot! 2-tone brown metal case, with inbuilt floppy, hard drive, and monitor. Data sticker gives the model as a C520 and the serial as 84472645 Power supply is in a seperate unit (see below) but still feeds mains into the machine via seperate plug by the looks of it, presumably for the display circuitry. Back-left corner: Keyboard socket (15-w D female) Reset (??) Contrast ? Back-right corner: Mains in (probably!) - from power supply unit 19-w huge round connector to mate with power supply Rear: UHF socket RGB (6-way DIN) Cassette (7-way DIN) Analogue (15-way D female) RS423 (25-way D female) Printer (25-way D male) The keyboard has a regular spacebar plus a small key to the right labelled 'exact space' - curious. "Torch HD Power Pack" --------------------- For use with above machine. Guess they ran out of space in the main case :) Has the following: Mains AC input Mains AC out (I assume??) via short trailing lead 19-way round connector to mate with above machine on a short trailing lead Power switch (likely!) Reset button (?? If so, what's the pushbutton on the main system unit for?) Torch-725 --------- This may be a Quad X machine; if so then there aren't many of them left I expect! It is according to the previous owner, but it doesn't say so on any of the badging. Case is grey steel, about the size/shape of an IBM XT case. Data sticker gives the model as a "725/U" and the serial as "84022913" At the front we have: 2 x slimline 5.25" floppy drives Hard disk led visible through window cut in the case Power led Whilst at the rear: Reset button Keyboard socket, 15-w D female Phone-jack type connector (Mouse? Or alternate keyboard socket - I have keyboards with both type of connector? Or modem?) "RS423 #1" - 25-w D female Parallel - 25-w D male Blanked ports: "RS423 #2", "RS423 #3", "Extension bus", SCSI, X25 Analogue port, 15-w D female Torchnet port, 5-w DIN RGB 6-w DIN Mains in Mains out Switch (power I assume!!) Large grille for cooling fan Monitors -------- One of these should work with the 725 above, another with the Triple X 'prototype' I guess. Single Torch Triple X 13" monitor, model CM13. 8-pin DIN input. Two Torch Triple X 10" monitors, model CM10. 8pin DIN input Unknown 14" RGB monitor, 15-w D type female input. Likely nothing to do with the Torch systems but I guess it'll probably work given a suitable cable. Keyboards --------- One of these for torch-725 presumably, which doesn't have an 'obvious' keyboard like the C520, and doesn't have one attached like the 'prototype'. Four Triple X keyboards; with 6-pin phone-type flat plugs on trailing leads and 6-pin phone-type flat sockets on back of the keyboard (for mice?) Two Cherry-made XT-style keyboards with 15-pin D-type male connectors on trailing leads. Mice ---- I believe the previous owner said the C520 was too old to use a mouse, but the other two systems should support them I think. Anyway, I have six Triple X mice using 6-pin phone-type flat plugs. The cover for one came off and fell down a convenient drain though - whoops... (there are only ever drain covers around when you have something useful to drop down them) Misc ---- Torch Z80 disc pack - grey metal case for two half-height 5.25" drives; it's been stripped of drives but I think the psu is intact. I believe this needs an interface card (which may well be amongst the cards listed below) Triple X PSU (or so I was told; not having a 'genuine' Triple X I don't know!) Box of genuine spare Quad X PAL chips and eproms Box of spare Triple X PAL chips and eproms Box of spare BBC/Torch eproms (presumably for 68k boards etc.) Floppy drives ------------- The owner was having a clear-out so I took a few off his hands - a couple I noticed were Torch-labelled. Four full-height IBM XT style units Five half-height units hand-labelled as 1.2MB Seven half-height units hand-labelled as 360KB Eighteen (!) unknown capacity drives. Five of the unknowns are still bagged and unused. Hard drives ----------- Unknown models / capacities as of yet... not had time to delve into them. Four 5.25" MFM drives, one labelled as Quad X and may still have an OS intact. Three 3.5" MFM drives. Tape drives ----------- Possibly for Quad X? Anyway, there are a couple of 5.25" HH units; not given them more than a brief glance yet so not sure of manufacturer / capacity / interface. Spare boards ------------ Couple of boxes of spare boards came with everything... all connectors are dual-row IDC type sockets unless I say otherwise :) Two Torch Computers 68000 boards. 68k and Z80B CPUs on board, 4 pin single-row connector (power I expect) and 40 pin data connector. I believe these plug into the BBC machines so that they can run Torch's version of CP/M? One is a later model than the other and badged as an Atlas board. Three Torch Z80 Communicator boards. Z80A CPU on board, 40 pin data connector. Another BBC plugin? The owner had hundreds of them apparently and most of them went to landfill a while ago. Unknown Torch Z80 card. 40-pin connector at one end, 26-pin connector at the other. Z80A CPU and SIO chips on board, plus 6522A and an 8255 chip. ROM is Torch labelled as CCCP V1.02 Three Torch internal (internal to what, though?) modems - 40-pin connectors, plus 4-pin single-row for power. Several 40-pin chips: Z80 PIO, MC6803, EF68A21P. ROM is Torch, labelled as "ADM5 2.1". Also a TM2016 chip on board (memory I believe) and a 28-pin IC branded as "world-chip". Two oddball "modems". I don't even know if that's what they are :-) 2x 4-pin single-row connectors, 14 pin single-row connector, then a long trailing lead terminated in a 5 way rounded jack plug. I've not seen those jack plugs on anything before, but it's possible old UK phone exchange equipment might have used them - anyone? There's very little in the way of logic on the boards - it's all analogue. Boards are 6" x 7". Trailing lead goes into a large white plastic 'box' in one corner of the board. On top of this, apparently as an afterthought, is a glued-on smaller black box out of which come two leads that connect back to pins on the 14 pin connector. Hardware hacking at its best... Right, the following appear to all be protocol convertor / interface boards for various storage devices. All are on boards around 6" x 8" in size, and all have a single 4 pin power connector (I may have manuals for all of these; I haven't got that far yet!): Seven issue 3 Torch manta boards, for converting between SCSI and floppy interfaces. Single issue 5 Torch manta board Four OMT boards (model 5200) with a 50 pin connector, 2x 34-pin connectors and 2x 20 pin connectors. SCSI (or SASI?) to MFM disk? Single OMT board with a 50 pin connector, 34-pin connector, and 4x 20 pin connectors. maybe SCSI (or SASI?) to MFM disk again? Four Xebec boards with a 50 pin connector, 3x 20 pin connectors and single 34-way edge connector. Single Xebec board with a 50 pin connector, 2x 20 pin connectors and single 34-way edge connector. Two Archive boards with a 50-pin connector at one end and a 50-way edge connector at the other.5 LEDs by the power connector. Tape interface of some sort, presumably? Single Emulex board, 2x 50-pin connectors at opposite ends of the board. Hmm. Tape again? Single Adaptec board, 2x 50-pin connectors at opposite ends of the board. Single Western Digital board (labelled WD1002-05), 2x 34-pin connectors, 3x 20-pin connectors, and a singe 40-pin connector. Only thing I can think of with 40 pins is IDE and it's too early for that I'm sure (last chip date is 1983) I *think* that's all of it, for now. The guy I got these from had several rooms piled up with stuff; he said he used to have a few 'proper' Triple X systems and is surprised he threw them out, so they may still be lurking somewhere. Same goes with other genuine Torch spares, drives, software, cables etc. There was a Quad X-on-a-card which I had my eye on but the guy still uses some of the other cards in the rack for various things, so I couldn't get hold of that. List of manuals and software to follow... cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 25 12:26:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New Finds: Torch software / docs Message-ID: <20030625172142.72156.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi again, Here's the documentation and software haul that goes with the Torch hardware I picked up earlier. The docs are probably about as complete as possible - and enormous! Copying them is probably a little unrealistic; there's probably a good 30,000 pages there - but If anyone collecting Torch hardware needs anything looking up just shout! cheers Jules Software 5.25" disks. Single boxed copy of the Triple X System V.2 issue 2 disk set - another 30 or so disks. CP/N hard disk utilities (single floppy, hand-written label) Torch hard disk utilities (single floppy, again just hand-written label) Two Torch key disks (with different serial numbers). Floppy with a Torch label on saying "spell binder" - no idea! Floppy labelled as: "Torch CP/N Unix/68k CP/N Support tune.com, unix.com, icheck.com etc." Floppy hand-labelled as "MOSF4.11 selecta M/3.5 disks". Core documentation -------------------- Unisoft Uniplus System III manual set - 3 volumes Unisoft Uniplus System V manual set - 8 volumes Triple X Administrators manual Triple X Handbook Triple X Users manual (section 1) Triple X Users manual (sections 2-6) Triple X Programming manual Triple X Inside System V manual Triple X Caretaker manual Triple X Telecomms Manager manual Triple X Software catalogue Triple X Gold Card newsletters 1-5 Torch Computers User Guide Torch Computers ZEP 100 User Guide Torch Computers Unix Guide Torch Computers Unicomm User Guide Torch Computers Programmers Guide Quad X Handbook Quad X Janitor Quad X Inside System V Quad X Opentop Programming Torch-725 Hardware Reference Manual (photocopied, in a Torch binder with added schematics, notes etc.) Torch X Window System Handbook Torch X Toolkit manual ASM68 Language Manual for UniPlus+ Introduction to Issue 2.0 of System V.2 (stapled together, no binder) System V.2 - Issue 2.0 List of Files Torch-related Oddities ------------------------------- Manual for the Torch Manta board Binder labelled as "All the stuff Torch didn't tell you!" - seems to be a C programming guide. Binder labelled as "Unix user guide" - notes on the basics, VI, shells etc. Binder for the VME320QX board (a Quad X on a VME bus card) with the following sections: Quad X spec / Quad X board manual / Openchip spec / Openchip programming manual / Quad X circuit diagram / Quad X parts list revisions / manufacturing notes / board layout 3rd party documentation set: two ring binders with sections labelled as "XXX manuals" and sections as follows: System V.0 issue 1.3 / Unix 5.2 product description / Unix V.2 list of files / XXX install / despatch notes (original shipping invoices!) / additional section 1 pages / hints / printing / B-net / NFS / multiuser / tape streamer / DOS disc utilities / 80MB disk drive / Versaterm 100 / Fortran F77 ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 25 13:34:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New Finds: AIM-65 and Acorn documents Message-ID: <20030625183019.53437.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Another one for the sake of the archives more than anything - a few more non-Torch docs that turned up amongst my haul of Torch stuff, some of which are likely quite (very?) rare... Acorn Stuff --------------- Acorn Econet system user guide Acorn Atom user manual Acorn Basic manual (4K integer Basic; manual is dated 28/7/1980) Acorn Technical Manual - dated 1979, for a 6502-based SBC. Display is quoted in the manual as being 9 digits with the leftmost one unused, which may identify the machine. Possibly a System 1-4 ?? Acorn 6809 users manual - dated 1980, this looks to be for a SBC a little more 'modern' than the one above. There are fragments of schematics in the manual, plus an overview of the board layout, construction guide, monitor ROM listing etc. but no complete schematic. A binder which looks to have been Acorn internal. Has the following A4 sections: Acorn DOS manual Acorn 6502 ADE Econet v1 technical manual Econet v1 user manual Econet v2 user manual Econet harddrive mods (schematics and notes) Econet specification document (marked as provisional) Atom Disc Pack construction notes, schematics etc. (anyone got a dump of the ROM to go with this?) Atom "Disatom Super ROM" specifications doc - whatever one of those is! Atom Toolkit and Monitor ROM manual, by a P. T. Blenkinsop (written beneath it says "with apologies to M Bates and Steve Wozniak" :) Acorn System 5 Handbook Acorn documentation - more official-looking stuff: BBC OS v1 spec, BBC disc interface details, Document called "A redefinable telesoftware format" - was that what went on to become prestel in the UK? Internal document announcing a BASIC interpreter being ready for the systems 3/4/5/6/8. I wonder what the systems 6 and 8 were? Far as I know only 1-5 existed in the wild, followed by the Atom and the BBC - with the Proton evolving into what became the BBC. Maybe 6 was the Atom - but the document goes on to specifically mention the BBC as a seperate case, so that wasn't a System 8... and where did 7 go? Curious! :) BBC micro speech system user guide. Internal doc detailing Acorn DOS entry points for the system 3, 4 and Atom. "Operating Instructions for the Progressive Establishment Testing System for the BBC Microcomputer". Blimey. Documentation for a hardware unit that hooked up to the BBC machines in order to perform hardware tests on them for engineers by the looks of it. Wonder if any of the hardware still exists? :-) "Operating Instructions for the Final Inspection and Test System for the BBC Microcomputer". Blimey again. Did these ever even see the light of day? Seems to have been another hardware unit for use by field engineers but I've never heard of it before. BBC 1MHz bus spec document. AIM 65 Stuff ------------ AIM 65 Schematic Forth user's manual PL/65 user's manaul Monitor program listing Basic language reference manual Instant pascal user's manaul ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Jun 25 16:42:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? Message-ID: >From: Ethan Dicks >Subject: Emulex resources? > >I've been to Al's repository on spies.com and found a few documents, >but I'm looking for some info on a variety of Emulex disk controllers. >The level of detail I'm at is what controllers support which drives >and emulate which DEC interfaces... > >I.e. - I have an SC21 on the way that emulates an RH11/RH70 and lets me >talk to a variety of SMD drives as if they were RM02/RM03/RM05/RM80 >drives. I also have a QD34 that was an entire Pound that I'd like to >press into service, but I have no cables... I was contemplating removing >the I/O transition board and fabricating a "standard" A&B cable connector >interface (60 pin/multi-26-pin). > >I'm also curious to get a reference to other controllers in case I >see them float by... most of the ones for sale lack specifics due to >seller ignorance. Hi, I have original Emulex manuals for CS09 (16 line-comm. controller) and DM01 (ST506-disk (MSCP) and SA450 floppy) controller both for the Qbus. If this isn't available yet, I can make copies or lend the manuals to someone who puts this to the web. Other doc available: Codar 170 time of day clock/watchdog module for Q-bus, DSD 880 Floppy/harddrive combination for Q-bus and Unibus, Able computer systems, Qniverter, Qbus to unibus adapter, several National semiconductor Qbus memory card for Q-bus. Looking myself for doc's and/or jumper-settings for: - Excelan exos 203 quad Q-bus controller, (probably ethernet??) - Chrislin Industries CI-1123+ dual Memory-board - SMS sientific micro systems Disc-adapter assy nr 0003770-0001, connects via 40 pole flatcable to a formatter 0003904-0001 that connects to several 8" discs- (eg Quantum Q2000) and floppy drives Shugart SA800 - Kaiser & Dr. Damm GmbH, MOT11-D1 ser. line controller with local MC6809, aperantley a german made module, but maybe also sold worldwide....? Frank From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 25 18:22:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship" (Jun 25, 18:19) References: <20030625171959.32629.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10306252351.ZM22442@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 25, 18:19, Jules Richardson wrote: > Picked up a huge pile of old Torch hardware, software and manuals from someone > today. A nice haul :-) > The keyboard has a regular spacebar plus a small key to the right labelled > 'exact space' - curious. Probably to generate a "non-break space" -- character 160 (0xA0) in ISO 8859 -- used for tables and things where you don't want the text formatter to change the spacing between words. > Torch Z80 disc pack - grey metal case for two half-height 5.25" drives; it's > been stripped of drives but I think the psu is intact. I believe this needs an > interface card (which may well be amongst the cards listed below) Unusual. Production ones were brown. They have a 34-way ribbon cable which plugs in to the Beeb disk interface, and carries the standard SA400-style interface signals. No other interface required. > Two Torch Computers 68000 boards. 68k and Z80B CPUs on board, 4 pin > single-row connector (power I expect) and 40 pin data connector. I believe > these plug into the BBC machines so that they can run Torch's version of CP/M? Not CP/M, that was the board below. These would run a Unix derivative, I think. > Three Torch Z80 Communicator boards. Z80A CPU on board, 40 pin data > connector. Another BBC plugin? The owner had hundreds of them apparently and > most of them went to landfill a while ago. Sounds like the normal Torch Z80 board, to run CPN. > Unknown Torch Z80 card. 40-pin connector at one end, 26-pin connector at the > other. Z80A CPU and SIO chips on board, plus 6522A and an 8255 chip. ROM is > Torch labelled as CCCP V1.02 That's definitely to run CPN. CCCP is the Console Command Processor part of CPN; usually paired with MCP on the Beeb. The 8255 and the 6522 probably make up the Tube interface. CPN, by the way, isn't CP/M. It looks and feels similar, and *some* CP/M software is compatible, but not all -- the memory map is different. > Three Torch internal (internal to what, though?) modems - 40-pin connectors, > plus 4-pin single-row for power. Several 40-pin chips: Z80 PIO, MC6803, > EF68A21P. ROM is Torch, labelled as "ADM5 2.1". Also a TM2016 chip on board > (memory I believe) and a 28-pin IC branded as "world-chip". TM2016 is a 2K x 8 (bytewide) static RAM, pin-compatible to a 2716 EPROM (except for the /WR line, of course). Your "World Chip"" will be an AMD7910 (or possibly AMD7911) FSK modem chip. It was very clever for it's day; it does a range of baud rates and Bell and CCITT tones. Over here, it was used in Miracle Technology modems and many others in the mid '80s. It goes up to 1200 baud half duplex or 300/300 full duplex. > Four Xebec boards with a 50 pin connector, 3x 20 pin connectors and single > 34-way edge connector. > Single Xebec board with a 50 pin connector, 2x 20 pin connectors and single > 34-way edge connector. SASI interfaces to ST412-compatible drives. The 50-pin connector is the SASI (predecessor to SCSI) interface; the 34-pin is the drive control bus, and the 20-pin connectors are the data lines. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 25 18:24:59 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New Finds: Torch software / docs In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "New Finds: Torch software / docs" (Jun 25, 18:21) References: <20030625172142.72156.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10306252354.ZM22445@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 25, 18:21, Jules Richardson wrote: > CP/N hard disk utilities (single floppy, hand-written label) > Torch hard disk utilities (single floppy, again just hand-written label) Hmm... Could I get a copy of those? I think I have the correct MCP ROM somewhere here. > Floppy with a Torch label on saying "spell binder" - no idea! Spellbinder was a CP/M word processor similar to Wordstar. The only other time I've seen it in the flesh was on an Exidy Sorcerer. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 25 18:26:47 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New Finds: AIM-65 and Acorn documents In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "New Finds: AIM-65 and Acorn documents" (Jun 25, 19:30) References: <20030625183019.53437.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10306260017.ZM22461@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 25, 19:30, Jules Richardson wrote: > Acorn Technical Manual - dated 1979, for a 6502-based SBC. Display is quoted in > the manual as being 9 digits with the leftmost one unused, which may identify > the machine. Possibly a System 1-4 ?? No, it wasn't a System device. That's the original Acorn SBC, I think. I've got the matching User's Manual. > Acorn 6809 users manual - dated 1980, this looks to be for a SBC a little more > 'modern' than the one above. There are fragments of schematics in the manual, > plus an overview of the board layout, construction guide, monitor ROM listing > etc. but no complete schematic. Mine has a fold-out circuit diagram inside the back cover. > Atom Disc Pack construction notes, schematics etc. (anyone got a dump of the > ROM to go with this?) Yes :-) > Document called "A redefinable telesoftware format" - was that what went on > to become prestel in the UK? The same basic CET (Council for Educational Technology) format was used for BBC Telesoftware (on Ceefax), Prestel (Micronet800, Viewfax258 etc) and a few bulletin boards (including Acorn's own Support Information Database -- SID). It went through a few revisions, but the basics didn't change. I wrote some software for that. > "Operating Instructions for the Progressive Establishment Testing System for > the BBC Microcomputer". Blimey. Documentation for a hardware unit that hooked > up to the BBC machines in order to perform hardware tests on them for engineers > by the looks of it. Wonder if any of the hardware still exists? :-) Probably. I'll pay money for one -- I still have most of the other Acorn test equipment. A PET was used to diagnose faulty systems; it could deal with pretty dead machines and/or some obscure faults -- though an experienced engineer could usually do it just about as fast without it. > "Operating Instructions for the Final Inspection and Test System for the BBC > Microcomputer". Blimey again. Did these ever even see the light of day? Seems > to have been another hardware unit for use by field engineers but I've never > heard of it before. Yes, I've got one -- and every Beeb I've ever repaired has passed the FIT. You need the software for it; I think the basic A version is printed in the manual but there's a B version as well (is that also in the manual? I've got one, but not to hand). Every Approved Service Centre was required to have one. There's a companion set of "Test Procedures For The ..." 6502 2P, Z80 2P, Prestel adaptor, Teletext adaptor, ... and other test equipment such as the Watchdog for an Electron and a PIT (sort of combined FIT/PET) for later machines, and an Econet test box. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 25 19:05:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: <20030625171959.32629.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 25, 3 06:19:59 pm Message-ID: > Hi all, > > Picked up a huge pile of old Torch hardware, software and manuals from someone Well done! > > Triple X 'prototype' > -------------------- > Supposedly this was a prototype of a Triple X machine used in-house by Torch, > presumably for development purposes. I'm not 100% convinced yet but I haven't > yet been inside it! It's built into two seperate grey metal cases (hard & > floppy disk / CPU) - certainly not production-quality either, but the official > badging suggests it perhaps wasn't a homebrew project either, so who knows. > - Top metal case houses hard disk and floppy in metal case; rear just has > power and 50-pin SCSI connector. OK, in the production XXX, the hard and floppy drives were connected to an OMTI board, and thence to the SCSI bus. Your unit is consistent with this > - Bottom slice is the CPU box; there's a standard-looking Triple X keyboard > attached (cable runs through a hole in the case). The front has power LED only > and stuck-on label reading: "XXX iss.2 in disguise" :-) The rear has the > following with 'proper' lettering: > 50 pin SCSI running to disk unit > Low-volts out (via bodged connector) for disk unit > "Video" (small hole in case only) The production machines have a 8 pin DIN for video. > "Torchnet" (small hole in case only) > "Disc interface" (blanked off) > RS423 (25-w D female) > Parallel (25-w D female) Be careful. This sounds like the case from something else. Production XXXs have 2 DB25 sockets, and both are RS232 ports (one actually carries 2 sets of RS232 signals, for a total of 3 serial ports). There is no parallel port on the production machines.... > RGB (round DIN, 8 pin) > Cassette (round DIN, 7 pin) No cassette on prpduction machines! > Reset button (I assume) > Mains AC input > Power switch Production machines don't have a conventional power switch. The PSU is controlled by a relay. There's a touch-sensitive contact on the front of the box that turns the PSU on when touched. The service processor then keeps the PSU running, and starts up the 68K side. Touching the contact again sends an interrupt to the service processor which tells the 68K to sync the filesystem and shut down. The 68K tells the service processor it's done this, and the latter then turns off the PSU. All this requires that the NiCd battery in the PSU is good. If not, then the thing can't start up. The official procedure at this point is to replace the PSU -- there's no official way to charge a flat NiCd (!!!!). > > > > "Torch Hard Disc" > ----------------- > This thing weighs one hell of a lot! 2-tone brown metal case, with inbuilt > floppy, hard drive, and monitor. Data sticker gives the model as a C520 and the > serial as 84472645 > Power supply is in a seperate unit (see below) but still feeds mains into the > machine via seperate plug by the looks of it, presumably for the display > circuitry. > > Back-left corner: > Keyboard socket (15-w D female) > Reset (??) > Contrast ? > Back-right corner: > Mains in (probably!) - from power supply unit > 19-w huge round connector to mate with power supply > Rear: > UHF socket > RGB (6-way DIN) > Cassette (7-way DIN) > Analogue (15-way D female) > RS423 (25-way D female) > Printer (25-way D male) This sounds a bit BBC-micro like!. There is a Torch SCSI hard disk unit for the beeb -- it's supposed to be rather rare. The one I've seen is a plinth to fit under the nonitor contianing the SCSI interface (connectes to the Beeb 1MHz bus) + hard disk and also a floppy drive (connects to the normal Beeb disk controller). Maybe you have much the same unit built into a case with the Beeb mainboard and monitor. > Torch-725 > --------- > This may be a Quad X machine; if so then there aren't many of them left I The QuadX I have is in the same case (basically) as a production XXX. But the mainboard is a singla 6U VME card, and there's a little 3 slot (I think) VME cardcage in the bottom slice. Much the same PSU as a XXX. > expect! It is according to the previous owner, but it doesn't say so on any of > the badging. Case is grey steel, about the size/shape of an IBM XT case. Data > sticker gives the model as a "725/U" and the serial as "84022913" > At the front we have: > 2 x slimline 5.25" floppy drives > Hard disk led visible through window cut in the case > Power led > Whilst at the rear: > Reset button > Keyboard socket, 15-w D female > Phone-jack type connector (Mouse? Or alternate keyboard socket - I have > keyboards with both type of connector? Or modem?) > "RS423 #1" - 25-w D female > Parallel - 25-w D male > Blanked ports: "RS423 #2", "RS423 #3", "Extension bus", SCSI, X25 > Analogue port, 15-w D female > Torchnet port, 5-w DIN > RGB 6-w DIN > Mains in > Mains out > Switch (power I assume!!) > Large grille for cooling fan This does not sound like a XXXX.... > > > Monitors > -------- > > One of these should work with the 725 above, another with the Triple X > 'prototype' I guess. > > Single Torch Triple X 13" monitor, model CM13. 8-pin DIN input. THis is actually a Sony Trinitron chassis...It works at TV rates and will take analogue or digital RGB in. Works with the Beeb, XXX, XXXX, etc... > Two Torch Triple X 10" monitors, model CM10. 8pin DIN input I've never seen one of these, but it should work, at least, with the XXX > Four Triple X keyboards; with 6-pin phone-type flat plugs on trailing leads > and 6-pin phone-type flat sockets on back of the keyboard (for mice?) Yes. Mouse connector. It's basically a special serial port. AFAIK the XXX and XXXX take the same keyboard. > Torch Z80 disc pack - grey metal case for two half-height 5.25" drives; it's > been stripped of drives but I think the psu is intact. I believe this needs an > interface card (which may well be amongst the cards listed below) AFAIK the drives just link to the normal Beeb fisk controller > Triple X PSU (or so I was told; not having a 'genuine' Triple X I don't > know!) Can you describe it? I've got a couple of XXXs (including a nicely expanded one with a Quinring on top), and quite a pile of spares... > Tape drives > ----------- > > Possibly for Quad X? Anyway, there are a couple of 5.25" HH units; not given In theory the XXX can support a tape drive on the SCSI bus, but I've never managed to get it to work... > Three Torch Z80 Communicator boards. Z80A CPU on board, 40 pin data > connector. Another BBC plugin? The owner had hundreds of them apparently and > most of them went to landfill a while ago. This is the board that goes with the Z80 disk pack. It fits inside the Beebm and connects to the Tube (I think). It runs CP/M (or something close to it). > Unknown Torch Z80 card. 40-pin connector at one end, 26-pin connector at the > other. Z80A CPU and SIO chips on board, plus 6522A and an 8255 chip. ROM is > Torch labelled as CCCP V1.02 Sounds like an expanded version of the above, with a serial port. > Three Torch internal (internal to what, though?) modems - 40-pin connectors, > plus 4-pin single-row for power. Several 40-pin chips: Z80 PIO, MC6803, > EF68A21P. ROM is Torch, labelled as "ADM5 2.1". Also a TM2016 chip on board > (memory I believe) and a 28-pin IC branded as "world-chip". The 'world chip' is an AM7910, that well-know 300 and 1200/75 baud modem IC. This sounds a bit like the Torch modem for the Beeb and XXX, but I don't recall a Z80 PIO on that board. > Two oddball "modems". I don't even know if that's what they are :-) 2x 4-pin > single-row connectors, 14 pin single-row connector, then a long trailing lead > terminated in a 5 way rounded jack plug. I've not seen those jack plugs on > anything before, but it's possible old UK phone exchange equipment might have > used them - anyone? There's very little in the way of logic on the boards - Sounds like a 'Plug 95A' which was the standard UK telephone plug before the flat 400 and 600 series. Commonly used on Prestel sets, etc. > it's all analogue. Boards are 6" x 7". Trailing lead goes into a large white > plastic 'box' in one corner of the board. On top of this, apparently as an > afterthought, is a glued-on smaller black box out of which come two leads that > connect back to pins on the 14 pin connector. Hardware hacking at its best... > > Right, the following appear to all be protocol convertor / interface boards for > various storage devices. All are on boards around 6" x 8" in size, and all have > a single 4 pin power connector (I may have manuals for all of these; I haven't > got that far yet!): > > Seven issue 3 Torch manta boards, for converting between SCSI and floppy > interfaces. These are used in XXX and XXXX machines if you have a real SCSI hard drive (as opposed to an ST506 one on an OMTI board). > Single issue 5 Torch manta board > Four OMT boards (model 5200) with a 50 pin connector, 2x 34-pin connectors > and 2x 20 pin connectors. SCSI (or SASI?) to MFM disk? SCSI to ST506 and floppy. Used at least in the XXX. > Single OMT board with a 50 pin connector, 34-pin connector, and 4x 20 pin > connectors. maybe SCSI (or SASI?) to MFM disk again? Probably. > Four Xebec boards with a 50 pin connector, 3x 20 pin connectors and single > 34-way edge connector. > Single Xebec board with a 50 pin connector, 2x 20 pin connectors and single > 34-way edge connector. Sounf like SCSI to ST506 interfaces > Two Archive boards with a 50-pin connector at one end and a 50-way edge > connector at the other.5 LEDs by the power connector. Tape interface of some > sort, presumably? Take controllers, Probably SCSI to either QIC 02 or QIC36.... > Single Emulex board, 2x 50-pin connectors at opposite ends of the board. Hmm. > Tape again? > Single Adaptec board, 2x 50-pin connectors at opposite ends of the board. More tape controllers... > Single Western Digital board (labelled WD1002-05), 2x 34-pin connectors, 3x > 20-pin connectors, and a singe 40-pin connector. Only thing I can think of with > 40 pins is IDE and it's too early for that I'm sure (last chip date is 1983) > > > > I *think* that's all of it, for now. The guy I got these from had several rooms > piled up with stuff; he said he used to have a few 'proper' Triple X systems > and is surprised he threw them out, so they may still be lurking somewhere. > Same goes with other genuine Torch spares, drives, software, cables etc. > There was a Quad X-on-a-card which I had my eye on but the guy still uses some That sounds like the production QaudX.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 25 19:06:56 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:33 2005 Subject: New Finds: Torch software / docs In-Reply-To: <20030625172142.72156.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 25, 3 06:21:42 pm Message-ID: > Two Torch key disks (with different serial numbers). You may not have realised it yet, but the Torch OS is keyed to the serial number of the (uncopyable) Key disk. If you have to re-install the OS, or if the NiCd goes flat, or... you need the right key disk... > Triple X Gold Card newsletters 1-5 THose are the second-most-lusing docs I've read, I think. The most lusing is the XXX service manual (which contains not a single schematic or useful piece of techincal information. Much of the so-called information in said manual turns out to be wrong!) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 25 19:08:39 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: BA11-F boxer muffin fan source ? In-Reply-To: <20030625030656.GA3020@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 24, 3 11:06:56 pm Message-ID: > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 10:12:28PM +0100: > > Not always... I mentioned those I2S machines in another message. Some of > > the fans in those had been powered for so long while stuck solid that the > > windings had overheated and burnt out. And the bearings were in very poor > > shape. Yes, I _could_ have rewound them, flash-tested them, and fitted > > new bearings, but it made more sense to buy a new fan.... > > Yes... in a case like that, buying a new one makes much more sense, > and then save the old ones for spare parts, or, for later repair > in case the fans turn into unobtanium. You think I _didn't_ keep the bits of the old fans? Of course I did :-). And some of them have already proved useful in restoring other fans.... > the other day, I repaired a Westclox alarm clock... the "real" type of > clock with hands and a dial, not one of those blasted digital display Actually, IMNO the 'real' type of clock doesn't use electrical parts at all. It's entirely mechanical. And yes, I do fiddle with those from time to time too... > annoyances. A very simple repair, actually, which involved replacing > the neon lamp which illuminates the dial. Granted, the clock cost > under US$10 IIRC, but I still think that this repair was more sensible > than replacing the clock. Of course... > > Interestingly, I learned something interesting about failing neon > lamps. The failing lamp would light in the daylight, but flicker > dimly in the dark. I never realized before that neon lamps were > light-sensitive. Can anyone explain this? I first saw this on the PSU neons in my 11/45 system (see, it's on-topic :-)). They would light steadily with the CPU pulled out on the slides, but would fliker when it was pushed back in. I first thought it was a bad connection and spent a long time checking. Then I realised it was due to light falling on the neon bulb. Apparently, light will cause some photoemision from the cathode in the neon, and maybe will also cause a bit of photoionisation of the neon gas itself. This causes the bulb to strike at a lower voltage. This was a problem when ROMs consisted of an array of neon bulbs with a photomultiplier pointed at them. It was common practice to illuminate all the neons just before one was required to strike (and to gate out the resulting pulse from the PM output) (See, for example 'Cold Cathode Tube Circuit Design'). -tony From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 25 19:48:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New Finds: Torch software / docs In-Reply-To: <10306252354.ZM22445@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Jun 25, 18:21, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > CP/N hard disk utilities (single floppy, hand-written label) > > Torch hard disk utilities (single floppy, again just hand-written > label) > > Hmm... Could I get a copy of those? I think I have the correct MCP ROM > somewhere here. > > > Floppy with a Torch label on saying "spell binder" - no idea! > > Spellbinder was a CP/M word processor similar to Wordstar. The only > other time I've seen it in the flesh was on an Exidy Sorcerer. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York It was standard issue with the Eagle CP/M machines, Pete. - don From jim at jkearney.com Wed Jun 25 21:28:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New Finds: AIM-65 and Acorn documents References: <20030625183019.53437.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d401c33b89$fb64c730$e05ca8c0@xpace.net> >From: "Jules Richardson" > AIM 65 Stuff > ------------ > AIM 65 Schematic > Forth user's manual > PL/65 user's manaul > Monitor program listing > Basic language reference manual > Instant pascal user's manaul Any chance that you can scan the Forth, PL/65 and Pascal language manuals? The ROMs are available on the web, but the doc to my knowledge is not. If you don't have the time or facilities for that, I'd be happy to do it. Richard Cini has the rest of the documents here: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/my_docs.htm Jim From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Jun 25 22:20:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Realistic MPA-35 owners manual Message-ID: <20030626031558.37310.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Radio shack dot com or whatever they a calling themself this week - has old and new owners manuals on thier web site. i was surprised to find the manual for thier 8 track recorder and the r2r they sold long ago. Bill Message: 16 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:48:52 -0700 From: Krome Mail Subject: Realistic MPA-35 owners manual To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hi Chris, If you still have an owner's manual for the Realistic MPA-35 I would sure appreciate a copy. Thank you. T. Moore --__--__-- From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Jun 26 04:10:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: ABLE COMPUTER # 10370-1 Message-ID: Hi, An Able-computer controller is offered on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737483185&category=1247 If I remember well, this could be a combined disc/tape-controller... does anyone have more details? Is the rather high price justified by some special features? Thanks, Frank From caryo at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 08:38:01 2003 From: caryo at yahoo.com (Cary Orange) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Looking for an old DUKEDOM game listing Message-ID: <20030625031956.51350.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Erik, My name is Cary Orange and I'm searching for the BASIC listing of an old computer game called DUKEDOM. I used to play this game many years ago when I owned a TRS-80 Model I computer. I'd like to find the game and port it to the PalmOS platform in an effort to revive the game. Based on input I've received from one of the game's contributors I think it might be printed in the February, 1980 issue of Creative Computing magazine (1980, Volume 6, Number 2). If not to inconvenient would you mind verifying this BASIC listing in your archived issue of the magazine? I'd really be interested in getting a hard/soft copy of the program listing to this game. Many Thanks! Sincerely, Cary Orange caryo@yahoo.com From kcoin at sasktel.net Thu Jun 26 08:39:47 2003 From: kcoin at sasktel.net (Kelly Coin Ltd.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: up 200 software Message-ID: <000801c33b29$b885a4d0$39fea58e@Charlie> hello there. i understand you might have a copy of the software for the up200. i just acquired one and need the software please. also if you have any idea about the cable from the unit to the computer it would be greatly appreciated. thank you in advance martin..... From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jun 26 09:01:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor Message-ID: Free for postage: 1 IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor ISA #82G7060 1 HP SCSI Adaptor ISA (for Scanjet?) #C1752-66500 I found these half-length ISA cards in the trash on the way to work today & have no need for them. Each is in a zip-lock bag and looks OK, but is untested. Postage would be about $2.00 each. Robert A. Feldman robert_feldman@jdedwards.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jun 26 10:50:00 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Memory config In-Reply-To: <1056520769.2106.17.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <200306261545.KAA18946@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > I have a couple of Dataram DR-118 core boards for a PDP-8 (Omnibus). > Anyone have any information on this (specifically how to jumper it for > the proper addresses). I *think* it's a 16kx12 but I'm not certain. > Yes, they are 16Kx12. Which means they can fill in 4 of the 8 possible 4K memory fields in the PDP-8/E memory address. There is a 16 pin DIP plastic box in the middle of the top board, near the bottom. It looks like an oversized IC chip. If you tape the 'cover' off of this, you will see the jumper wires. Basically, the 8 connections on the left correspond to the 8 possible 4K memory field addresses, and 4 wires are connected to the middle 4 connections on the right side, which correspond to the actual memory on the DR-118. If you're careful, you can take the top off without pulling the box out of the socket. if you do pull it out, be careful not to bend the pins. If you ever want to trade them for something, just let me know. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jun 26 10:53:01 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Fwd: computer rescue: Sun 68K in Madison, WI Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030626104408.021e99f0@pc> >From: "Pentinmaki, Isaac" >To: "'jfoust@threedee.com'" >Subject: computer rescue >Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:48:42 -0500 > >How old are you looking for ? >I have an old Sun 68k that I've been trying to get motivated to recycle. The >computer has been off so long the boot prom has to be reset from the bios. >It's about the speed of a fast 386 and the monitor is very heavy. > >Isaac Pentinmaki >Glythor Inc. Consultant @ Kraft >608 285 4592 From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Jun 26 12:00:01 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor References: Message-ID: I'll take the 5250 to add to my collection if nobody else has a pressing need for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor > Free for postage: > 1 IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor ISA #82G7060 > 1 HP SCSI Adaptor ISA (for Scanjet?) #C1752-66500 > > I found these half-length ISA cards in the trash on the way to work today & have no need for them. Each is in a zip-lock bag and looks OK, but is untested. Postage would be about $2.00 each. > > Robert A. Feldman > robert_feldman@jdedwards.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jun 26 12:36:00 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: <20030616.072403.511.18788@webmail09.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030626122755.02194830@pc> At 02:23 PM 6/16/2003 +0000, tedtace34@netzero.com wrote: >I saw your entry that seems to be about a year old about Jeff Worley. I thought it was odd that you refered to him with the handle Technoid. The Jeffrey Worley I knew from High school ('86-'87) in Miami went by "technoid mutant". I'm wondering if this is the same person I know. if so, I might have some disturbing news about Jeffrey. Please let me know if some of the information I have presented here seems to Jibe with who you knew. http://www.click10.com/news/2162231/detail.html Disturbing E-Mail, Phone Call Precede Murder, Police Say POSTED: 6:38 a.m. EDT April 28, 2003 UPDATED: 9:43 a.m. EDT April 28, 2003 MIAMI -- A disturbing e-mail and a long distance phone call led police to a grisly scene this weekend. Detectives say Jeffrey Worley (pictured) e-mailed his brother in Michigan to say he was going to kill both his father and himself. The brother called Miami police but it was too late for his father. Tom Worley, 55, was found shot to death in his home. His son was taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder. - John From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jun 26 13:46:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c33c12$96000f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I have original Emulex manuals for CS09 (16 line-comm. > controller) and DM01 (ST506-disk (MSCP) and SA450 floppy) > controller both for the Qbus. I don't think those have been made available yet (but I may have missed them appearing). > Other doc available: Codar 170 time of day clock/watchdog > module for Q-bus, DSD 880 Floppy/harddrive combination for > Q-bus and Unibus, Able computer systems, Qniverter, Qbus to > unibus adapter, several National semiconductor Qbus memory > card for Q-bus. There's some Able stuff on Al's site and I've scanned schematics for the Qniverter and Qniverter II (which will appear somewhere sometime soon just as soon as all the details are sorted). I've not seen any of the rest of that stuff kicking around anywhere, except maybe for some of the National stuff, which *may* have been available on that site in Australia for which I keep losing the bookmarks! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jun 26 13:53:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New Finds: Torch software / docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c33c13$8feb17e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > You may not have realised it yet, but the Torch OS is keyed > to the serial > number of the (uncopyable) Key disk. If you have to > re-install the OS, or > if the NiCd goes flat, or... you need the right key disk... I'll probably never come by a Torch, so I ask for academic interest only, but what makes this disk uncopyable (as opposed to just hard to copy given an appropriate piece of hardware like say the Catweasel)? What is the disk keyed to? Can it be replaced? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Thu Jun 26 15:12:00 2003 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? References: <001001c33c12$96000f10$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <3EFB5273.DCF4C5C3@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I've not seen any of the rest of that stuff kicking around anywhere, > except maybe for some of the National stuff, which *may* have been > available on that site in Australia for which I keep losing > the bookmarks! If you're referring to Wilber Williams' site, formerly "chook", it has moved to http://www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au - Paul From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 26 15:54:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: General Automation SPC-16/4x & HP PTP Message-ID: I managed to pick up a General Automation SPC-16/40 and SPC-16/45. Aparently, the /40 needs its power supply to be repaired :(. Does anyone have info on these things? Searching google doesn't yeild a whole lot. They've got fairly nice frontpanels, and seem to be 16 bit machines (and have some _real_ core ;-). I got a disk pack drive to go with one (Single platter 14" cartridge, a lot like a DEC RL01), but not too much else. I'd like to get at least one of them 'set up' to play with. Oh yeah, if anyone's interested in one, make me an offer. I *might* be willing to let one go if the price is right. I also picked up an HP paper tape punch that seems to be in less-than- working condition, I haven't even checked the fuse yet, so we'll see if I can get it working. They were even nice enough to leave 1/2 a roll of blank tape on it. Now all I need is a paper tape reader and card punch/reader... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 26 16:20:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New Finds: Torch software / docs In-Reply-To: <001101c33c13$8feb17e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at Jun 26, 3 07:48:41 pm Message-ID: > > You may not have realised it yet, but the Torch OS is keyed > > to the serial > > number of the (uncopyable) Key disk. If you have to > > re-install the OS, or > > if the NiCd goes flat, or... you need the right key disk... > > I'll probably never come by a Torch, so I ask for academic > interest only, but what makes this disk uncopyable (as > opposed to just hard to copy given an appropriate piece of > hardware like say the Catweasel)? The useual -- misformatted/unformatted tracks. OK, a catweasel almost certainly _can_ copy it. In fact a XXX given the right software can _create_ key disks with any desired serial number. The Utility to do this did escape from Torch IIRC. > > What is the disk keyed to? Can it be replaced? There's a serial number somewhere in the OS image. It must match the serial number in the battery backed RAM of the XXX that's to run that OS. The battery backed RAM is loaded from the keydisk. And yes, there are ways round it. -tony From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 16:50:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New DEC finds Message-ID: <20030626214529.72218.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Latest haul (courtesy of the new 11/750 owner I'm helping)... o Qbus grant cards, including a single-height Intergraph "PCB518" o Dilog DU132 tape controller (Pertec I/O, TS11/TU80 emulation) o M7504 DEQNA (broken handle, no cab kit) o M3106 DZQ11 (dual-height) o M7546 TQK50 o A012 ADV11 (says "A/D for 1103" on the solder side) o M7810 PC11 (with loopback jumper for "punch" connector) o M7608-BP MS630-B (uVAX-II 4MB memory card) o M8639-YB RQDX2 o M7606-AC KA630-A o M9404 / M9405-YB Q22 Cable Connector o M7168 / M7169 VCB02 (QDSS) 4-plane graphics o M8739 KLESI-U ("Aztec Unibus Adapter Card") o M-LSI-DR11 PLUS ... so plenty of uVAX-II parts and a couple of interesting items. I have abundance of VCB02s, so if anyone wants to turn a Qbus MicroVAX into a VAXstation, I'm sure we can work something out (no mice, monitor cables or cab kits, I'm afraid). -ethan From djenner at earthlink.net Thu Jun 26 19:10:00 2003 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Early RT-11 Versions Message-ID: <3EFB8A56.D7E7AFF1@earthlink.net> Are there disk images of early versions of RT-11 available for use with the SimH simulator? Like V02C and V03B. (I think V03B was the last release of V3.) Thanks, Dave -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 26 20:23:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Early RT-11 Versions In-Reply-To: from "David C. Jenner" at Jun 26, 2003 05:05:42 PM Message-ID: <200306270118.h5R1Ia5t031233@shell1.aracnet.com> > Are there disk images of early versions of RT-11 available > for use with the SimH simulator? Like V02C and V03B. (I > think V03B was the last release of V3.) They exist, but they aren't available. There are holes in what is known to still exist. I'm not aware of any copies of V1 (was there even a V1?). I know that copies of both versions you mention are known to exist. Zane From aek at spies.com Thu Jun 26 20:56:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Early RT-11 Versions Message-ID: <200306270154.h5R1sZOQ000683@spies.com> > I'm not aware of any copies of V1 (was there even a V1?). sim> b tc RT-11 V01-15 .R PIP *TT:=DT:/L MONITR.SYS 34 25-JUL-73 RKMON .SYS 34 25-JUL-73 LP .SYS 2 26-JUN-73 RK .SYS 2 28-JUN-73 PR .SYS 2 22-JUL-73 PP .SYS 2 26-JUN-73 DT .SYS 2 26-JUN-73 TT .SYS 2 26-JUN-73 LP .132 2 26-JUN-73 SYSMAC.SML 8 26-JUN-73 PIP .SAV 8 9-JUL-73 EDIT .SAV 15 22-JUL-73 MACRO .SAV 29 26-JUN-73 LINK .SAV 14 9-JUL-73 EXPAND.SAV 12 3-JUL-73 ASEMBL.SAV 21 26-JUN-73 PATCH .SAV 5 26-JUN-73 ODT .OBJ 9 26-JUN-73 PIPC .SAV 12 25-JUL-73 349 FREE BLOCKS * From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Jun 26 21:30:01 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 anyone? Message-ID: A guy I went to college with has a VAX 11/725 he's about to trash. Is anyone interested? I think it is located near DC. He says it won't boot but I don't know anything else. I can try to find out if anyone is interested. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 26 21:37:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 anyone? In-Reply-To: from "David Betz" at Jun 26, 2003 10:25:51 PM Message-ID: <200306270233.h5R2XMTI001400@shell1.aracnet.com> > A guy I went to college with has a VAX 11/725 he's about to trash. Is > anyone interested? I think it is located near DC. He says it won't boot > but I don't know anything else. I can try to find out if anyone is > interested. Wow! Unless I'm mistaken /725's are a bit rare, and someone should rescue this one! Zane From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Jun 26 22:03:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Help identifying Mostek machine Message-ID: <001201c33c58$11e4c5e0$947ba8c0@p933> Hello all, I've come into possession of a Mostek computer (I'm pretty sure it's a computer anyway) with a pair of 8" half height floppy drives (Shugart 860s) and three cards. The cards are roughly 6x4 inches with a 56 finger edge connector on one of the long ends and various connectors on the opposite end (I'm not familiar with these). They are labeled MDX-FLP2 (plugged into the drives - obviously a floppy controller), MDX-SIO (almost certainly a serial IO card) and MDX-CPU3. The last card is the processor card. The main chip appears to be a MOSTEK Z-80 clone which is labeled MK3801N-4, Z80-STI AND ENG. PROTO. There are 8 4564s for 64K RAM on the card along with what are either connectors for serial and/or parallel ports. The whole box is about the size of a typical rack-mount machine with a plastic case around it. Most parts are tagged as Mostek and most date codes are from the middle of 1982. Of course it came without software or documentation. Is anyone familiar with this machine? Does anyone have a boot disk, other software or documentation for it? Thanks! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Jun 26 22:12:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Early RT-11 Versions References: <200306270118.h5R1Ia5t031233@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3EFBB4CB.C45EB518@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Are there disk images of early versions of RT-11 available > > for use with the SimH simulator? Like V02C and V03B. (I > > think V03B was the last release of V3.) > They exist, but they aren't available. There are holes in what is known to > still exist. I'm not aware of any copies of V1 (was there even a V1?). I > know that copies of both versions you mention are known to exist. Jerome Fine replies: Prior to V5.00 of RT-11, DEC sent out patch files to update the old versions - as far as I know. Thus there may not have been exact definitions of releases not on the major versions. I am fairly sure that some files for V02C and V03B exist, but it depends on if you want a pure set of files for these two versions or just something that works. PLUS, is there a specific reason why you are asking about versions from the 1970s? I myself am attempting to find these old RT-11 distributions so that they can be archived. In particular, I would like RK05 images so that they are one single file, but floppy images will also be great. In addition, even a directory listing from an RK05 would then help, but please try to include the VOLUME / OWNER information as well. Some images of RT-11 distributions are at: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jun 26 23:09:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Help identifying Mostek machine In-Reply-To: <001201c33c58$11e4c5e0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Is anyone familiar with this machine? Does anyone have a boot disk, > other software or documentation for it? No, but it sounds pretty damn interesting. Can you put up a photo of the Z80 CPU? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aek at spies.com Fri Jun 27 00:31:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules Message-ID: <200306270529.h5R5Tq8l019399@spies.com> *Now* I need to find a spec sheet for an SN7460 and see what its propogation delay is. --- The 1971 TI Integrated Circuits Catalog is now up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/ti/_dataBooks/1971_TI_IntegratedCircuits The 7460 is on page 6-044 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 01:01:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Looking for schematics for DEC M702 and M720 modules In-Reply-To: <200306270529.h5R5Tq8l019399@spies.com> Message-ID: <20030627055716.41406.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Al Kossow wrote: I wrote: > *Now* I need to find a spec sheet for an SN7460 and see what its > propogation delay is. > > --- > > The 1971 TI Integrated Circuits Catalog is now up at > www.spies.com/aek/pdf/ti/_dataBooks/1971_TI_IntegratedCircuits > > The 7460 is on page 6-044 Thanks! -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 01:08:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 anyone? In-Reply-To: <200306270233.h5R2XMTI001400@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20030627060411.28028.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > A guy I went to college with has a VAX 11/725 he's about to trash. Is > > anyone interested? I think it is located near DC. He says it won't boot > > but I don't know anything else. I can try to find out if anyone is > > interested. > > Wow! Unless I'm mistaken /725's are a bit rare, and someone should > rescue this one! They are somewhat rare - I've seen three in my life, one was mine that vanished when the business it was at was abruptly sold (it was out on loan) :-( Other than the size, it's nothing remarkable - an 11/730 CPU in a box slightly bigger than a BA123. The RC25 has been hashed to death here, but for its day, for 52MB of storage on a VAX, it was somewhat compact. It's a .6 VUPS machine that may or may not be able to take the full 5MB that the 11/730-Z backplane should (power and heat and what not). I have seen one boot VMS 5.0, but there wasn't any elbow room. I'm somewhat interested, but only because I don't have a Unibus VAX up and running right now (I never got that DWBUA from Gunther to pass self-tests in my 8200 - not sure if it's my UET board, the cables, or the DWBUA itself). They are no slower than an 11/730, and quite a bit more portable. It's trivial to speed up the boot process to under 5 minutes, if you re-order the files on the tape. -ethan P.S. - speaking of tape, if the console TU-58 has gooey rollers, that *will* keep it from booting. Unlike the 11/750, the 11/725 and the 11/730 *need* the console TU-58 to come up from a cold start. From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jun 27 01:42:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030626122755.02194830@pc> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030626122755.02194830@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, John Foust wrote: > At 02:23 PM 6/16/2003 +0000, tedtace34@netzero.com wrote: > > > I saw your entry that seems to be about a year old about Jeff Worley. > > I thought it was odd that you refered to him with the handle Technoid. > > The Jeffrey Worley I knew from High school ('86-'87) in Miami went by > > "technoid mutant". I'm wondering if this is the same person I know. if > > so, I might have some disturbing news about Jeffrey. Please let me > > know if some of the information I have presented here seems to Jibe > > with who you knew. > > http://www.click10.com/news/2162231/detail.html > > Disturbing E-Mail, Phone Call Precede Murder, Police Say > POSTED: 6:38 a.m. EDT April 28, 2003 > UPDATED: 9:43 a.m. EDT April 28, 2003 > MIAMI -- > > A disturbing e-mail and a long distance phone call led police to a > grisly scene this weekend. > Detectives say Jeffrey Worley (pictured) e-mailed his brother in > Michigan to say he was going to kill both his father and himself. The > brother called Miami police but it was too late for his father. > > Tom Worley, 55, was found shot to death in his home. His son was taken > into custody and charged with first-degree murder. Uhm, this doesn't sound good at all. The last email I can find in my list archives from "Jeffrey S. Worley" is dated 25 Apr 2003, and according to an email dated 13 Dec 2002 that Jeffrey posted to the list, his mailing address was: Jeffrey S. Worley 1151 N.E. 86St. Miami, Fl. 33138 I was in the process of arranging to get his nonworking Stingray card, and the last email I got from him was on the 24th of April... Curt: did you ever manage to get the SWP ATR8500 system? Jeffrey's post on 13 Dec 2002 seems to indicate he couldn't remember who to send the system to. -Toth From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jun 27 03:42:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Emulex resources? In-Reply-To: <3EFB5273.DCF4C5C3@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <001001c33c87$6d8944f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If you're referring to Wilber Williams' site, formerly > "chook", it has moved to http://www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au That's the one. Thanks! -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 27 06:35:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Torch haul pictures... Message-ID: <20030627113121.72977.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> OK, got a few captioned pictures of the Torch stuff up for those interested at: http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/torchweb/index.html (the non-thumbnail images are around 640x480ish and between 50 and 100KB) I've been inside everything to do some initial checks - no obvious signs of damage and everything was pretty clean and dirt-free. Still need to test PSUs on a dummy load etc. before I try powering anything up though. cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 06:56:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Help identifying Mostek machine In-Reply-To: <001201c33c58$11e4c5e0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: That sounds like an interesting machine. I have a United Technologies Mostek Matrix 800, but it has a 1.2meg 5 1/2 drive and an MFM hard drive. My machine runs CP/M and has a Z-80. I have the system disks, albeit on 5 1/4, and I can make copies for you if you need them, but you'll have to find a way to either convert them to 8" or to hook a 5 1/4 drive to the computer, but even then I don't know if the disks would be compatible. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 10:58 PM, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Hello all, > > > > I've come into possession of a Mostek computer (I'm pretty sure it's a > computer anyway) with a pair of 8" half height floppy drives (Shugart > 860s) and three cards. > > > > The cards are roughly 6x4 inches with a 56 finger edge connector on one > of the long ends and various connectors on the opposite end (I'm not > familiar with these). They are labeled MDX-FLP2 (plugged into the > drives - obviously a floppy controller), MDX-SIO (almost certainly a > serial IO card) and MDX-CPU3. The last card is the processor card. > The > main chip appears to be a MOSTEK Z-80 clone which is labeled MK3801N-4, > Z80-STI AND ENG. PROTO. There are 8 4564s for 64K RAM on the card > along > with what are either connectors for serial and/or parallel ports. > > > > The whole box is about the size of a typical rack-mount machine with a > plastic case around it. Most parts are tagged as Mostek and most date > codes are from the middle of 1982. > > > > Of course it came without software or documentation. > > > > Is anyone familiar with this machine? Does anyone have a boot disk, > other software or documentation for it? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Erik Klein > > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > > The Vintage Computer Forum From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 27 07:13:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship Message-ID: <20030627120904.71009.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Tony, an all-in-one email... > OK, in the production XXX, the hard and floppy drives were connected to > an OMTI board, and thence to the SCSI bus. Your unit is consistent with this Yep, that's exactly what I have. The case may or may not be a stock part. The XXX case itself looks to be from something else for sure though - there are even two spare half-height drive bays inside. The XXX I have is a single board called a 'Stickleback' with various connectors in it - including BT in/out and an Ethernet port (none of these are actually wired to the back of the case though). There's also markings on the board for a VME bus connection, but no socket or associated circuitry. I'm "missing" two ICs: IC139 is just a socket for a 48 pin IC beneath which is written "WYN8526(ET)". IC140 next to this is a 24 pin socket and is also empty. Maybe something to do with the ethernet circuitry? The connector's nearby. (ET = 'Ethernet Transciever" ?? :) > The production machines have a 8 pin DIN for video. OK, I do have that but it's labelled RGB; there's also the hole for a socket labelled 'video' - but as the case is a hack who knows... > Be careful. This sounds like the case from something else. Production > XXXs have 2 DB25 sockets, and both are RS232 ports (one actually carries > 2 sets of RS232 signals, for a total of 3 serial ports). There is no > parallel port on the production machines.... My Stickleback board is marked as having RS432 and X.25, both on 25 pin ports. The RS432 port is wired through to the parallel port on the back of the case, and the X.25 port is wired through to the RS432 port on the back of the case :-) > Production machines don't have a conventional power switch. The PSU is > controlled by a relay. There's a touch-sensitive contact on the front of > the box that turns the PSU on when touched. Except on mine :-) There's a battery hanging loose inside the case, but nothing resembling touch contacts; it appears that's all been bypassed on this machine and the power switch works conventionally. I wonder what the correct procedure of shutting it down safely is... (hopefully one of the various stock Unix methods will work) [Torch "Hard Disc"] > This sounds a bit BBC-micro like!. There is a Torch SCSI hard disk unit > for the beeb -- it's supposed to be rather rare. The one I've seen is a > plinth to fit under the nonitor contianing the SCSI interface (connectes > to the Beeb 1MHz bus) + hard disk and also a floppy drive (connects to the > normal Beeb disk controller). Maybe you have much the same unit built > into a case with the Beeb mainboard and monitor. OK, been inside now - it is a BBC, with a Torch Z80 coprocessor. Torch SASI interface hooked up to the BBC's 1MHz bus, with a Xebec interface hanging off that which talks to the hard drive. Integral display is a Microvitec (probably a Cub). The case appears to be production quality but is a very oddball design (as is the seperate PSU). See seperate post for link to pics if you can motivate yourself to look at some grahpics :-} The keyboard's an ineresting custom design with about a million keys :-) Half of these seem to be labelled with various wordprocessing functions. I since believe I'm missing a modem from it, but one of the spares I have will fit - not sure where it hooks up to the rest of the system though. [ Torch-725 ] > The QuadX I have is in the same case (basically) as a production XXX. But > the mainboard is a singla 6U VME card, and there's a little 3 slot (I > think) VME cardcage in the bottom slice. Much the same PSU as Hmmm... ok, what I have in that 725 is another BBC, a 68k Torch Atlas board, Torch SCSI interface, and a Xebec controller talking to the full-height drive. I need to go poke around in the documentation sometime. And I'll have to hassle the guy I got these from about the rack-mount QX he has if this is in fact something different :) Information on what exactly a Torch Unicorn was would be useful, to be honest. Some people seem to think it was the name of a complete machine, whilst others think it was just the name for the range of Torch cards available for the BBC. Just idly wondering if the 725 was a prototype Unicorn or something; I don't have details of exactly what machines Torch made. > This does not sound like a XXXX.... I do have a spare hard disk labelled as Quad X, those tape drives and controller boards, a surplus Torch-stock PSU, complete ROM set, and the complete schematics for the QX VME card. I'll just go build myself one... ;-) >> Triple X PSU (or so I was told; not having a 'genuine' Triple X I don't >> know!) > > Can you describe it? I've got a couple of XXXs (including a nicely > expanded one with a Quinring on top), and quite a pile of spares... Duh! I just picked it up; I'd only noticed the Farnell label before. It actually says "Triple X 100W" on the side :) It's not the same as the power supply in my "prototype" XXX which is a 150W unit, same as the one in the big "Hard Disc" machine. > In theory the XXX can support a tape drive on the SCSI bus, but I've > never managed to get it to work... I'll keep an eye out when I go through the docs I have. I noticed on the previous owner's invoices for the XXX that I now have that he recieved it with a tape drive. Maybe there'll be some info amongst everything that says how it hooks up. The two tape drives I got were from XXX machines so I can grab model numbers / interface details from those too. >> Seven issue 3 Torch manta boards, > These are used in XXX and XXXX machines if you have a real SCSI hard > drive (as opposed to an ST506 one on an OMTI board). gotcha. I can't imagine I can make use of seven of them, unless driving them is easy enough that I can use them in other systems... I've got the docs for the boards but I don't know how detailed they are yet. >> Two Torch key disks (with different serial numbers). > You may not have realised it yet, but the Torch OS is keyed to the serial > number of the (uncopyable) Key disk. If you have to re-install the OS, or > if the NiCd goes flat, or... you need the right key disk... uh-oh :-) I have two, for machines with two different serial numbers. Hopefully one works with the 'prototype' system I have (or, if it is a prototype, they disabled this feature :-) cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 27 07:14:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship Message-ID: <20030627121029.71276.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Pete, >> Torch Z80 disc pack > Unusual. Production ones were brown. Agreed on the Z80 disk pack - doesn't appear to have ever had anything other than drives and a cable in it. The PSU is still intact, so it'd be complete again with the addition of drives (which I now have plenty of spares of!). No idea why it's grey rather than brown, except that so are the XXX 'prototype' and the 725 machine. >> Two Torch Computers 68000 boards. > Not CP/M, that was the board below. These would run a Unix derivative, I think. Fair call. One's an 'Atlas' board, which is what the 725 machine also has in it. The other is a "Torch 68000 board" and seems to date from a year earlier (1983 rather than 1984). the earlier board has an 8MHz 68k, the Atlas board a 10MHz - but both have CCCP 1.02 ROMs so I expect they behave identically, with one just being slower than the other. > CPN, by the way, isn't CP/M. It looks and feels similar, and *some* > CP/M software is compatible, but not all -- the memory map is different. given that the 68k boards have CCCP ROMs too I'm not surprised :) >> Four Xebec boards with a 50 pin connector, 3x 20 pin connectors and single >> 34-way edge connector. Single Xebec board with a 50 pin connector, 2x 20 pin >> connectors and single 34-way edge connector. > > SASI interfaces to ST412-compatible drives. I found the manuals to these (and all the other interface boards that I have I believe) - it seems the cards with the three 20-pin connectors on have SCSI interfaces. The C520 machine meanwhile has a Torch SASI controller in it and one of the "2 connector" Xebec boards is plugged into that - so unless a SASI controller can drive a SCSI device, the "2 connector" Xebec boards have a SASI interface. >> CP/N hard disk utilities (single floppy, hand-written label) >> Torch hard disk utilities (single floppy, again just hand-written label) > >Hmm... Could I get a copy of those? I think I have the correct MCP ROM > somewhere here. sure, I'm a bit snowed under at the moment so it might not be for a few weeks - plus I need to find a good way of copying the disks unless my PC's controller will read them. I should have spare Torch ROM sets for everything so I can always copy the ROM if I can find a good way of doing it (I've got that EPROM programmer for the Apple 2 but getting data onto and off the machine needs figuring out). worst-case there'll be a way of me reading the data via a BBC and mailing it to you I suppose! >> Acorn Technical Manual - dated 1979, for a 6502-based SBC. Display is quoted in >> the manual as being 9 digits with the leftmost one unused, which may identify >> the machine. Possibly a System 1-4 ?? > > No, it wasn't a System device. That's the original Acorn SBC, I think. > I've got the matching User's Manual. It sounds like one of these: http://www.machine-room.org/computers/6360/technical.html Of course the website info may be innacurate; and piecing together information about exactly what Acorn produced in the early days is proving hard - what little data there seems to be on the web is generally labelled with disclaimers as to accuracy! :-) I've since found I have manuals for some of the 'other' cards that seemed to be available (which I believe worked with the later 'system' machines): o Laboratory Interface Manual o Visual Display Unit Interface Board technical manual (issue 1, dated 1979), also mentions the same teletext decoder as used in the BBC so looks like Acorn were messing around with that even then. o Acorn 32K DRAM technical manual (issue 3, 1982) - looks to be designed for the 'system' machines or the Atom. o Acorn Extension Memory Board manual (issue 3, 1980) - an 8KB board o PROM Programmer Board manual (Issue 2, 1981) o VIA Board (Issue 1, 1980) o Acorn Analogue Interface technical manual (Issue 1, 1980) Looking at the list, you can see where the BBC had its origins :) >> Acorn 6809 users manual - dated 1980, this looks to be for a SBC a > Mine has a fold-out circuit diagram inside the back cover. rats, I'm missing that unless it's been tucked away inside something else. >> Atom Disc Pack construction notes, schematics etc. (anyone got a >> dump of the ROM to go with this?) > > Yes :-) Hmm, I may have to ask you nicely for a copy of that sometime and build one of these to go with my Atom... I think everything else I need is covered in the manual (my Atom's had the memory expansion and BASIC upgrade anyway so it's not a 'pure' original) [ BBC FITs] > Yes, I've got one -- and every Beeb I've ever repaired has passed the > FIT. You need the software for it; I think the basic A version is > printed in the manual but there's a B version as well (is that also in > the manual? I've got one, but not to hand). What I have is a copy of a confidential Acorn pre-release manual for the FIT and the PET which makes it a little unique :) But yes, it has listings for the A and B machines. It wouldn't surprise me if copies of the associated manuals are still at the house where I got all this from; stuff from all kinds of machines was just *everywhere* so there's likely a lot that was missed... cheers, Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jun 27 07:23:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 7300 Pro System Museum Quality! Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030627081626.0679d860@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's one some of you might like. Perkin Elmer 7300 Pro System Museum Quality! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738081449 Current bid US $9.99 From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jun 27 07:44:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: RARE Zenith Inteq 248 PC Tempest Shielding Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030627083908.0639d040@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's one that seems unusual RARE Zenith Inteq 248 PC Tempest Shielding http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738292042 From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jun 27 08:29:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Help identifying Mostek machine In-Reply-To: <001201c33c58$11e4c5e0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627082248.01a2df48@mail.ubanproductions.com> It sounds like a bigger brother to this MDX-CPU2: http://ubanproductions.com/mostek.html https://gatekeeper.evocative.com/VCA/view.cfm?ad=16 --tom At 07:58 PM 6/26/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all, > > > >I've come into possession of a Mostek computer (I'm pretty sure it's a >computer anyway) with a pair of 8" half height floppy drives (Shugart >860s) and three cards. > > > >The cards are roughly 6x4 inches with a 56 finger edge connector on one >of the long ends and various connectors on the opposite end (I'm not >familiar with these). They are labeled MDX-FLP2 (plugged into the >drives - obviously a floppy controller), MDX-SIO (almost certainly a >serial IO card) and MDX-CPU3. The last card is the processor card. The >main chip appears to be a MOSTEK Z-80 clone which is labeled MK3801N-4, >Z80-STI AND ENG. PROTO. There are 8 4564s for 64K RAM on the card along >with what are either connectors for serial and/or parallel ports. > > > >The whole box is about the size of a typical rack-mount machine with a >plastic case around it. Most parts are tagged as Mostek and most date >codes are from the middle of 1982. > > > >Of course it came without software or documentation. > > > >Is anyone familiar with this machine? Does anyone have a boot disk, >other software or documentation for it? > > > >Thanks! > > > > Erik Klein > > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > > The Vintage Computer Forum From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Fri Jun 27 08:40:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New here... Looking for PDP 11 / RSTS help In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030627083908.0639d040@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> I'm new to this fine place, but not so new to retrocomputing... I had a question... I wonder if any of you know the answer... I'm trying to relive my misspent youth, spent hacking into the RSTS/E system at Arizona State Univerisity. I'm trying to set up a system with RSTS/E v9 and the version of Simh that supports DZ0: (DZ11) devices. (on http://elvira.stacken.kth.se) I have no problem building the system from the tapes (images)... that' s all fine. When you look at the HARDWR LIST (when you don't start timesharing) it sees the device (DZ0:) --but-- when I try to connect via telnet, I just get "welcome to the PDP simulator" and then nothing. I'm assuming that you have to set something, somewhere else, to enable the device. I've been though loads of RSTS/E manuals, and I can't figure it out. In my defense, when I was messing about with RSTS/E (and learning to program and such) I was 12 years old, and didn't have access to the hardware. I am the proud *owner* of a PDP 11/23, but my evil wife wouldn't let me transport it to England from Arizona, so it is in the custody of my friend in Phoenix.... Please help, if you can. I'm starting to lose sleep over this one. Oh yes, my wife did fill boxes with all sorts of stuff, like toilet roll and suave shampoo, so why my precious PDP 11/23 (and my TRS-80 Model II) had to be left behind I don't know. Women! Take Care, Mark Firestone From rws at ripco.com Fri Jun 27 08:59:00 2003 From: rws at ripco.com (Richard Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > Tom Worley, 55, was found shot to death in his home. His son was taken > > into custody and charged with first-degree murder. > The last email I can find in my list archives from "Jeffrey S. Worley" > is dated 25 Apr 2003, and according to an email > dated 13 Dec 2002 that Jeffrey posted to the list, his mailing address > was: > Jeffrey S. Worley > 1151 N.E. 86St. > Miami, Fl. 33138 If you look on switchboard.com for Tom Worley in Miami, that's the same address. That's not good. Richard Schauer rws@ripco.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 27 09:04:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: New here... Looking for PDP 11 / RSTS help In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: >I'm new to this fine place, but not so new to retrocomputing... I had a question... I wonder if any of you know the answer... You might actually want to try posting these questions to USENET, I'm not sure how strong the RSTS/E experience is here... >I'm trying to relive my misspent youth, spent hacking into the RSTS/E system at Arizona State Univerisity. I'm trying to set up a system with RSTS/E v9 and the version of Simh that supports DZ0: (DZ11) devices. (on http://elvira.stacken.kth.se) Am I to understand that you're using a hacked version of SIMH V2.3? Go get a copy of the real thing, that will hopefully solve your problem. http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ Bob, just released V3.0, V2.3 is *very* old. >I have no problem building the system from the tapes (images)... that' s all fine. When you look at the HARDWR LIST (when you don't start timesharing) it sees the device (DZ0:) --but-- > >when I try to connect via telnet, I just get > >"welcome to the PDP simulator" and then nothing. > >I'm assuming that you have to set something, somewhere else, to enable the device. I've been though loads of RSTS/E manuals, and I can't figure it out. I know I've had this working with SIMH under V10.1, and I think I've had it working with V9.something. That would have been using something like SIMH V2.9 or V2.10. Basically I just did a simple install following the instructions in my install manual. You might be interested in the following webpage as well, it's part of my DEC Emulation website. http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp11emu.html Overall, I find running RSTS/E under emulation to be preferable to running it on my PDP-11/73. My only problem has been that I can't get DECnet installed on either SIMH, E11, or the PDP-11/73. I can get the furthest on E11. Thought for the day, installing RSTS/E by the book on a 2GB drive on a PDP-11/73 is "fun", it takes forever to do the three checks of the drive! As I recall, just one pass took over 12 hours. On an emulator, it's very fast. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rickb at bensene.com Fri Jun 27 09:22:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Another RSTS Query In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <000401c33cb6$d9e713a0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Is it possible to take a .tap image of a RSTS/E installation (e.g. 9.2) and convert it to a disk image (e.g., RL02)? The tape image is bootable, and the standalone system has means to initialize a disk and copy a minimal system to the disk, which when booted from, starts the SYSGEN process, and reads the rest of the tape (after the boot) to restore the various system files and packages. What I'd like to do is convert the tape image I have into a bootable disk image that would perform the same function. Or, alternatively, does anyone have a bootable installation disk image for RL02 for RSTS 9.x? My understanding is that the installation RL02 for 9.2 took two RL02 packs. My 11/34A doesn't have a tape drive, but I've got two RL02's, an RL01, and a couple of RK05's, and plenty of spare packs. I'd like to try to install 9.2 (I know, it'll be SLOW) on it, but the .tap images I've got aren't usable for lack of a tape drive. Thanks, Rick From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Fri Jun 27 10:26:00 2003 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Torch haul pictures... References: <20030627113121.72977.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EFC60F1.4E4AC964@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > > OK, got a few captioned pictures of the Torch stuff up for those > interested at: What's in the Cifer manuals, Jules? - Paul From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 10:45:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 7300 Pro System Museum Quality! In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030627081626.0679d860@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030627154032.63677.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mail List wrote: > Here's one some of you might like. > > Perkin Elmer 7300 Pro System Museum Quality! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738081449 I tried to sell one of those years ago at a hamfest. No takers at $15. We used it as a cross-development environment for COMBOARD and follow- on products - mostly as a departmental C compiler that would emit 68000 assembler (we were using Whitesmith's C on the VAX for the system and VMS application code). Nice little box, System III. Got mine in storage, along with all the diskettes and manuals. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 16:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Are 7438s in DEC interfaces special? Message-ID: <20030627211351.69847.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> I need to lay hands on at least one 7438 to stick into my new (to me) Emulex QD21 to implement the "22-Bit Addressing Kit"... there's a single socket by the fingers, U49, that accepts the 7438, and a switch to throw. I can pick up a 7438 for all of $0.28 at B.G. Micro, but the question is are they hand-picked in any way? If so, what would I have to construct to replicate the selection process. Thanks, -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jun 27 16:57:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:34 2005 Subject: Help identifying Mostek machine In-Reply-To: References: <001201c33c58$11e4c5e0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030627174230.486f3bf6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> These sound like standard Mostek STD-BUS cards. The cards were available separately so it may or may not be a Mostek computer. As luck would have it (your's not mine!) I found some Mostek manuals for some of the cards today along with some DRI CPM manuals. I haven't gone trough them yet but I'll post a list after I do. BTW Steve Robertson is the expert on STD-BUS stuff. He found one of the system developers that used to work for Pro-Log and got a TRUCK load of that stuff. BTW II United Technologies bought out Mostek so Ian's computer could be considered a Mostek machine. Joe At 07:52 AM 6/27/03 -0400, you wrote: >That sounds like an interesting machine. I have a United Technologies >Mostek Matrix 800, but it has a 1.2meg 5 1/2 drive and an MFM hard >drive. My machine runs CP/M and has a Z-80. I have the system disks, >albeit on 5 1/4, and I can make copies for you if you need them, but >you'll have to find a way to either convert them to 8" or to hook a 5 >1/4 drive to the computer, but even then I don't know if the disks >would be compatible. > >Ian Primus >ian_primus@yahoo.com > > >On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 10:58 PM, Erik S. Klein wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> >> >> I've come into possession of a Mostek computer (I'm pretty sure it's a >> computer anyway) with a pair of 8" half height floppy drives (Shugart >> 860s) and three cards. >> >> >> >> The cards are roughly 6x4 inches with a 56 finger edge connector on one >> of the long ends and various connectors on the opposite end (I'm not >> familiar with these). They are labeled MDX-FLP2 (plugged into the >> drives - obviously a floppy controller), MDX-SIO (almost certainly a >> serial IO card) and MDX-CPU3. The last card is the processor card. >> The >> main chip appears to be a MOSTEK Z-80 clone which is labeled MK3801N-4, >> Z80-STI AND ENG. PROTO. There are 8 4564s for 64K RAM on the card >> along >> with what are either connectors for serial and/or parallel ports. >> >> >> >> The whole box is about the size of a typical rack-mount machine with a >> plastic case around it. Most parts are tagged as Mostek and most date >> codes are from the middle of 1982. >> >> >> >> Of course it came without software or documentation. >> >> >> >> Is anyone familiar with this machine? Does anyone have a boot disk, >> other software or documentation for it? >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> Erik Klein >> >> www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >> >> The Vintage Computer Forum From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jun 27 16:57:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: new finds :-) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030627175329.486f2934@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Visted one of my favorite scrounging places today and found a Otrona Attache and a Soroc Terminal (1802 CPU :-) :-) Also got two shugart 851 8" floppy drives, an IC Master (1988) a stack of DRI CPM manuals, a DEC PDP-8 handbook and a notebook full of Mostek computer board manuals. Oh and an AIM-65 User's Guide. Does anyone have disks for the Otrona? :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jun 27 16:57:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: RARE Zenith Inteq 248 PC Tempest Shielding Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030627174642.486f2cec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Tempest shielded Zeniths aren't all that rare. The US Goverenment made a HUGE purchase of Zenith computers back in the mid '80s and many of them ended up being shielded for use in various goverenment agencies. I used to see pallet loads of shielded Zeniths and even a hand-full of shielded MacIntoshes at one of the scrap places that I frequent. Joe At 08:40 AM 6/27/03 -0400, you wrote: >Here's one that seems unusual > > >RARE Zenith Inteq 248 PC Tempest Shielding > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738292042 From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jun 27 17:12:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: RARE Zenith Inteq 248 PC Tempest Shielding In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030627174642.486f2cec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030627180329.0659d710@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Joe, I didn't say it was rare. The seller did. I just thought it unusual. But perhaps not $299.00 unusual. I ran into some Z248's at NTC San Diego, and at the DRMO here in Norfolk, but I hadn't ever seen one of the Tempest Shielded ones yet. At 05:46 PM 6/27/03 +0000, you wrote: > Tempest shielded Zeniths aren't all that rare. The US Goverenment made a >HUGE purchase of Zenith computers back in the mid '80s and many of them >ended up being shielded for use in various goverenment agencies. I used to >see pallet loads of shielded Zeniths and even a hand-full of shielded >MacIntoshes at one of the scrap places that I frequent. > > Joe > >At 08:40 AM 6/27/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Here's one that seems unusual > > > > > >RARE Zenith Inteq 248 PC Tempest Shielding > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738292042 From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jun 27 17:12:27 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Are 7438s in DEC interfaces special? In-Reply-To: <20030627211351.69847.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030627211351.69847.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2635.4.20.168.129.1056751666.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ethan asks: > I need to lay hands on at least one 7438 to stick into my new (to > me) Emulex QD21 to implement the "22-Bit Addressing Kit"... there's > a single socket by the fingers, U49, that accepts the 7438, and a > switch to throw. I can pick up a 7438 for all of $0.28 at B.G. Micro, > but the question is are they hand-picked in any way? If so, what would > I have to construct to replicate the selection process. I'm not sure about Emulex, but DEC qualified all their Omnibus/Unibus/Qbus drivers and receivers for leakage current lower than the manufacturer's specifications, and for better Vol specifications at high current. This is necessary if you have a long bus, such as two Omnibus boxes with two backplanes each, etc. If you don't have a lot of loading on the bus, it's not too critical. To measure leakage current, make sure the output of the 7438 is NOT being driven (for instance, by setting both inputs low), then connect a microammeter between the 7438 output and +5V. Don't do this with the 7438 actively driving the output low, as you could damage the meter. For Vol measurement, you just need to set up a 70 mA regulsted current source from +5V to the 7438 output, and set both inputs of the 7438 high so that the output is driven low. Then measure the output voltage. A fancy circuit to do this, allowing you to dynamically control the current, may be seen in a Maxim appnote: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/177 However, for just a fixed 70 mA current, you can use just a linear regulator with a resistor, as shown on page 4 of National Semiconductor application note AN-103: http://www.national.com/apnotes/PositiveVoltage-Fixed__v3.html Note that the leakage current is a concern on both bus drivers and bus receivers (or transceivers). Also note that the leakage current and Vol vary with temperature and supply voltage, so if you really want to do this right you need to test at the limits. I suspect that the worst-case corner is high temp and max voltage, but I don't know that for a fact. I haven't actually tried doing any of this, so take it with a grain of salt. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 27 17:15:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... Message-ID: <200306272211.h5RMBIot015495@shell1.aracnet.com> I'm getting sick of my DSL modem locking up on me. Some times it will be good for weeks on end, other times it needs to be powercycled every few hours. This seems to be one of those every few hours days :^( It is fairly easy to set my Firewall up to monitor and determine if the firewall is down. The question is, what would it take to get that Firewall to powercycle the ()#*&% #(*&% modem on it's own? I seem to recall seeing something that can be plugged into a Serial port, and you can send it signals to turn the power on and off on a receptical. Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 17:31:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: VME and CAMAC reading list? Message-ID: <20030627222706.76119.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> I'm looking at a new job; one of the requirements is a familiarity with VME and CAMAC (it's how they mount their data aquisition hardware). I used to work with Mizar-brand VME cards long ago, so I'm not a complete novice, but I think I ought to do some brushing up before being subjected to the techie gauntlet. Googling for "VME and CAMAC" turns up a lot of hits. :-) Can anyone make suggestions on some good overview texts? Web preferred, but if I have to, I can resort to the local Uni library. At some point, I'll have to know how to operate as well as repair the equipment, but I'll be happy just to be able to participate in a discussion of the hardware without looking like a goob in the interview. Thanks for any help narrowing down the search. -ethan From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jun 27 17:33:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306272211.h5RMBIot015495@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Zane, have your firewall interface a X-10 controller. The power module could be used to cycle the modem. g. On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm getting sick of my DSL modem locking up on me. Some times it will be > good for weeks on end, other times it needs to be powercycled every few > hours. This seems to be one of those every few hours days :^( > > It is fairly easy to set my Firewall up to monitor and determine if the > firewall is down. The question is, what would it take to get that Firewall > to powercycle the ()#*&% #(*&% modem on it's own? I seem to recall seeing > something that can be plugged into a Serial port, and you can send it > signals to turn the power on and off on a receptical. > > Zane From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jun 27 18:02:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... References: <200306272211.h5RMBIot015495@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <002d01c33cff$8c817fd0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> APC Masterswitch.... new, about $395, but they are on ebay much cheaper. However, they are rackmountable, and have 8 outlets, wonderful web interface, and a serial port. The serial port is designed for a console, but I'm sure you could fudge the appropriate strings to make it shut a given port down. We use them like candy in our datacenter. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 5:11 PM Subject: Device to reset power... > I'm getting sick of my DSL modem locking up on me. Some times it will be > good for weeks on end, other times it needs to be powercycled every few > hours. This seems to be one of those every few hours days :^( > > It is fairly easy to set my Firewall up to monitor and determine if the > firewall is down. The question is, what would it take to get that Firewall > to powercycle the ()#*&% #(*&% modem on it's own? I seem to recall seeing > something that can be plugged into a Serial port, and you can send it > signals to turn the power on and off on a receptical. > > Zane From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 27 18:40:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: new finds :-) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030627175329.486f2934@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > Visted one of my favorite scrounging places today and found a Otrona > Attache and a Soroc Terminal (1802 CPU :-) :-) Also got two shugart 851 8" > floppy drives, an IC Master (1988) a stack of DRI CPM manuals, a DEC PDP-8 > handbook and a notebook full of Mostek computer board manuals. Oh and an > AIM-65 User's Guide. > > Does anyone have disks for the Otrona? > > :-) I can probably accomodate you, Joe. How's your luck in 'writing' from a TeleDisk image? - don From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jun 27 18:50:01 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: <20030627120904.71009.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628002856.02244be8@pop.freeserve.net> >[Torch "Hard Disc"] > > This sounds a bit BBC-micro like!. There is a Torch SCSI hard disk unit > > for the beeb -- it's supposed to be rather rare. The one I've seen is a > > plinth to fit under the nonitor contianing the SCSI interface (connectes > > to the Beeb 1MHz bus) + hard disk and also a floppy drive (connects to the > > normal Beeb disk controller). Maybe you have much the same unit built > > into a case with the Beeb mainboard and monitor. > >OK, been inside now - it is a BBC, with a Torch Z80 coprocessor. Torch SASI >interface hooked up to the BBC's 1MHz bus, with a Xebec interface hanging off >that which talks to the hard drive. Integral display is a Microvitec (probably >a Cub). The case appears to be production quality but is a very oddball design >(as is the seperate PSU). See seperate post for link to pics if you can >motivate yourself to look at some grahpics :-} > >The keyboard's an ineresting custom design with about a million keys :-) Half >of these seem to be labelled with various wordprocessing functions. I since >believe I'm missing a modem from it, but one of the spares I have will fit - >not sure where it hooks up to the rest of the system though. I've been away a week so trying to catch up on the list (hence replying to points made in other posts here too!) ... This unit sounds /very/ like a Torch 68000 Hard Disc machine I have, so definitely production quality. Same ridiculous separate power supply.. Pictures: (apologies for the quality, they were taken a while back when all I had was a webcam, and the machine is buried at the moment!) http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch004.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch005.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch006.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch007.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch008.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch009.jpg Mine appears to be complete - it has the modem (connects somewhere to the torch boards, rather than the RS423 on the BBC, so makes 100% of all BBC native communications software useless). 68000 board is positioned where the Z80 board is on yours, is just bigger. The barrel jack plug connector on your modems was indeed the standard "plug and socket" telephone connector in the GPO days (before they became British Telecom) and was not a mass-market commodity - you had to pay quite a lot to have sockets installed; most phones were hard-wired. My machine /seems/ to run a 68000 version of CPN - there is supposed to be a unix for it, but I never found a way to boot it into that, or software to reload it. I got rid of most of my other torch stuff; the communicator tried to sell for quite a high price on eBay.. makes me cringe to think of so many going to landfill. btw ... I got a pile of old Amstrad CPC bits, mostly GBP 1 - 5 up on www.eBid.co.uk (free auction site, getting a lot of eBay business after their price rises!) at the moment... From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Jun 27 18:51:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306272211.h5RMBIot015495@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > It is fairly easy to set my Firewall up to monitor and determine if the > firewall is down. The question is, what would it take to get that Firewall > to powercycle the ()#*&% #(*&% modem on it's own? APC BackUPS Pro. Simple one character commands over a serial interface to control the load and monitor the mains status. I know a guy in Annapolis Maryland that sells used ones relatively cheap (less than $100). I bought six from him and they all work great. He had a stack of around 50 of them back in March. They are heavy of course so shipping might make them too expensive for you. Email me off list if you are interested and I'll give you his particulars. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 27 18:59:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: <20030627120904.71009.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 27, 3 01:09:04 pm Message-ID: > Tony, > > an all-in-one email... > > > OK, in the production XXX, the hard and floppy drives were connected to > > an OMTI board, and thence to the SCSI bus. Your unit is consistent with this > > Yep, that's exactly what I have. The case may or may not be a stock part. The My guess is that you have normal XXX boards mounted in a non-standard case. Possibly the case from some other Torch product. > XXX case itself looks to be from something else for sure though - there are > even two spare half-height drive bays inside. > > The XXX I have is a single board called a 'Stickleback' with various connectors Yes, that's standard. > in it - including BT in/out and an Ethernet port (none of these are actually The BT connectors are wired to a pin header just behind them _only_. The internal modem connects to the Xbus (basically BBC 1MHz bus without interrupts!) header and to the header connected to the BT connectors. > wired to the back of the case though). There's also markings on the board for a > VME bus connection, but no socket or associated circuitry. The VME interdace is a DIN41612 plug and a few buffers. AFAIK all production machines had it fitted. > > I'm "missing" two ICs: IC139 is just a socket for a 48 pin IC beneath which is > written "WYN8526(ET)". IC140 next to this is a 24 pin socket and is also empty. > Maybe something to do with the ethernet circuitry? The connector's nearby. (ET > = 'Ethernet Transciever" ?? :) Probably. The ethernet chips (I think there were 3 -- 7990, 7992, and a transdformer) wrer optional. > > > The production machines have a 8 pin DIN for video. > > OK, I do have that but it's labelled RGB; there's also the hole for a socket Yes, it's analoge RGB at TV rates + 2 syncs + drive for a piezo speaker. > labelled 'video' - but as the case is a hack who knows... It sounds like this case once took a BBC micro board... > > > Be careful. This sounds like the case from something else. Production > > XXXs have 2 DB25 sockets, and both are RS232 ports (one actually carries > > 2 sets of RS232 signals, for a total of 3 serial ports). There is no > > parallel port on the production machines.... > > My Stickleback board is marked as having RS432 and X.25, both on 25 pin ports. Yep, standard. > The RS432 port is wired through to the parallel port on the back of the case, > and the X.25 port is wired through to the RS432 port on the back of the case > :-) As I said, be careful! > > > Production machines don't have a conventional power switch. The PSU is > > controlled by a relay. There's a touch-sensitive contact on the front of > > the box that turns the PSU on when touched. > > Except on mine :-) There's a battery hanging loose inside the case, but > nothing resembling touch contacts; it appears that's all been bypassed on this > machine and the power switch works conventionally. I wonder what the correct > procedure of shutting it down safely is... (hopefully one of the various stock > Unix methods will work) There's an 8 pin power connector on the stickleback. Is is connected to anything other than the PSU and the battery? The touch-switch circuitry is on the PSU board, and sends an interrupt over one pin of that connector (I can dig out schematics/pinouts if you need them). > > [Torch "Hard Disc"] > > This sounds a bit BBC-micro like!. There is a Torch SCSI hard disk unit > > for the beeb -- it's supposed to be rather rare. The one I've seen is a > > plinth to fit under the nonitor contianing the SCSI interface (connectes > > to the Beeb 1MHz bus) + hard disk and also a floppy drive (connects to the > > normal Beeb disk controller). Maybe you have much the same unit built > > into a case with the Beeb mainboard and monitor. > > OK, been inside now - it is a BBC, with a Torch Z80 coprocessor. Torch SASI > interface hooked up to the BBC's 1MHz bus, with a Xebec interface hanging off Are you sure it's SASI, not SCSI (not that it makes much difference. > [ Torch-725 ] > > The QuadX I have is in the same case (basically) as a production XXX. But > > the mainboard is a singla 6U VME card, and there's a little 3 slot (I > > think) VME cardcage in the bottom slice. Much the same PSU as > > Hmmm... ok, what I have in that 725 is another BBC, a 68k Torch Atlas board, Definitely not a Quad-X > Torch SCSI interface, and a Xebec controller talking to the full-height drive. > I need to go poke around in the documentation sometime. And I'll have to hassle > the guy I got these from about the rack-mount QX he has if this is in fact > something different :) > > Information on what exactly a Torch Unicorn was would be useful, to be honest. I thought it was a 68000 coprocessor for the Beeb. > Some people seem to think it was the name of a complete machine, whilst others > think it was just the name for the range of Torch cards available for the BBC. > Just idly wondering if the 725 was a prototype Unicorn or something; I don't > have details of exactly what machines Torch made. > > > This does not sound like a XXXX.... > > I do have a spare hard disk labelled as Quad X, those tape drives and > controller boards, a surplus Torch-stock PSU, complete ROM set, and the > complete schematics for the QX VME card. I'll just go build myself one... ;-) Good luck in finding that custom chip (oh, what did they call it?) that handles video, etc... > I'll keep an eye out when I go through the docs I have. I noticed on the > previous owner's invoices for the XXX that I now have that he recieved it with > a tape drive. Maybe there'll be some info amongst everything that says how it > hooks up. The two tape drives I got were from XXX machines so I can grab model Oh, it just hooks up to the SCSI bus... It's getting the software sorted out that's the problem. Still, it can't be worse than the PERQ3a. On that infernal machine, the minor device numbers have no relation to the SCSI addresses at all! > easy enough that I can use them in other systems... I've got the docs for the > boards but I don't know how detailed they are yet. The Manta is something I know nothing about, so if you have technical docs I'd be interested in probing you for information... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 27 18:59:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: <20030627121029.71276.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 27, 3 01:10:29 pm Message-ID: > o Acorn 32K DRAM technical manual (issue 3, 1982) - looks to be designed for > the 'system' machines or the Atom. Yes, the expansion bus on the Atom is almost identical to the 'System' bus, and most cards work in both machines. The Atom manual mentions that one 'System' Eurocard can be fitted inside the Atom case. Normal choices for this were the 32K DRAM card or one of the I/O cards (lab I/O, ADC, etc). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 27 18:59:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Are 7438s in DEC interfaces special? In-Reply-To: <20030627211351.69847.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 27, 3 02:13:51 pm Message-ID: > I need to lay hands on at least one 7438 to stick into my new (to > me) Emulex QD21 to implement the "22-Bit Addressing Kit"... there's > a single socket by the fingers, U49, that accepts the 7438, and a > switch to throw. I can pick up a 7438 for all of $0.28 at B.G. Micro, > but the question is are they hand-picked in any way? If so, what would I think DEC selected them (for leakage, drive, etc), but I don't think Emulex did (or at least my Emulex SCSI card came with a 7438 to insert if you wanted 22 bit addressing and it didn't have any special markings). Unless you have a well-loaded bus, I think any 7438 will work. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 27 19:00:15 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306272211.h5RMBIot015495@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 27, 3 03:11:17 pm Message-ID: > I'm getting sick of my DSL modem locking up on me. Some times it will be > good for weeks on end, other times it needs to be powercycled every few > hours. This seems to be one of those every few hours days :^( > > It is fairly easy to set my Firewall up to monitor and determine if the > firewall is down. The question is, what would it take to get that Firewall > to powercycle the ()#*&% #(*&% modem on it's own? I seem to recall seeing > something that can be plugged into a Serial port, and you can send it > signals to turn the power on and off on a receptical. Can you toggle any line on any port (say one of the handshake lines on the serial port (RTS, DTR) or one of the lines on a parallel port)? If so, you could use it to drive a transistor and then a relay.. -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jun 27 19:11:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Looking for TAM CD's Message-ID: <002c01c33d09$2bf45a20$f408dd40@oemcomputer> I have three of the original cd's that came with the Apple TAM 20th Anniversary computer and need a copy of the others. I have the OS8 CD, Music Demo CD, and the Tour CD. I believe there were 7 or 8 in the complete set that shipped with the TAM. Can someone make a copy of the missing CD's and I will pay you for them? Thanks in advance. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 27 19:30:01 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Fwd: tandy 1000 EX rescue Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030627192251.02dc3e00@pc> >From: Hbmjchap@aol.com >Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:01:31 EDT >Subject: tandy 1000 EX >To: jfoust@threedee.com > >I have a Tandy 1000 EX with 256 K memory in perfect working order. It includes a full color monitor, a daisy wheel printer, the original software, plus the games Kings Quest III and IV. Would you be interested in taking this off of my hands? If so, please e-mail me at schapman711@hotmail.com and we can talk terms. Thank you, I look forward to your reply. > >Sincerely, > >Steve Chapman From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 27 19:33:00 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00d401c33d0c$4ae79a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> I used to have a BBS system that needed to be periodically reset. I just got one of those digital clock-timers from Radio Shack, which you plug in to the wall, and you can plug things into them and set an on/off time. I set the ON time to 4:01 AM and the OFF time to 4:00 AM. So at 4:00 it would go off, then back on at 4:01. Worked great. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 6:35 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Device to reset power... Zane, have your firewall interface a X-10 controller. The power module could be used to cycle the modem. g. On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm getting sick of my DSL modem locking up on me. Some times it will > be good for weeks on end, other times it needs to be powercycled every > few hours. This seems to be one of those every few hours days :^( > > It is fairly easy to set my Firewall up to monitor and determine if > the firewall is down. The question is, what would it take to get that > Firewall to powercycle the ()#*&% #(*&% modem on it's own? I seem to > recall seeing something that can be plugged into a Serial port, and > you can send it signals to turn the power on and off on a receptical. > > Zane From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 27 19:40:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Omron Programmable Controller References: <001201c33c58$11e4c5e0$947ba8c0@p933> <3.0.6.16.20030627174230.486f3bf6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004601c33d0d$171001a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I have an older one here, an Omron Sysmac SCY-P5R-30E with control panel. Someone out there know something about it? I need to do basically one of the following. 1./ Find documentation so as to make it a useful member of the collection. 2./ Give it to someone that more or less needs it. 3./ Scrap it for parts. Your help appreciated. John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 27 19:45:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: RARE Zenith Inteq 248 PC Tempest Shielding In-Reply-To: from "Mail List" at Jun 27, 2003 06:07:33 PM Message-ID: <200306280041.h5S0f7Mx022749@shell1.aracnet.com> > I didn't say it was rare. The seller did. I just thought it unusual. > But perhaps not $299.00 unusual. I ran into some Z248's > at NTC San Diego, and at the DRMO here in Norfolk, but I > hadn't ever seen one of the Tempest Shielded ones yet. Ditto. I had to deal with them at three different commands. None of them were Tempest shielded..... I take that back, I think one was. The only Tempest PC clone equipment that I really had any dealings with were ancient IBM PC's with dual 5Mb IOMEGA removable media drives. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 27 19:56:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jun 28, 2003 12:45:43 AM Message-ID: <200306280052.h5S0q6i1023162@shell1.aracnet.com> > Can you toggle any line on any port (say one of the handshake lines on > the serial port (RTS, DTR) or one of the lines on a parallel port)? If > so, you could use it to drive a transistor and then a relay.. This is pretty much the kind of think that I had in mind, I'm sure I could build it, I'm just not sure how. At least the Sparc 5 I'm using has two serial ports (one is the system console). I've got to admit, I *REALLY* like Jay's idea of the APC Masterswitch, unfortunatly they look to be a lot more than I'm wanting to spend :^( Still, they would be *perfect*. OTOH, your idea, coupled with the 16-port Serial box I've got for the firewall could make an interesting setup. Eight ports for switches, eight ports for console cables :^) Assuming of course my OS supports the box. Zane From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jun 27 20:21:00 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Burroughs B21 workstations available, UK In-Reply-To: <1056496866.3ef8dce2699e5@webmail.snowmoose.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan and group, Happily Graeme from this list is local to me so he's coming tomorrow to pick everything up :) Got to dig it all out now, which'll be interesting 'cos its spread all over the storage room! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Alan Perry > Sent: 25 June 2003 00:21 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Burroughs B21 workstations available, UK > > > I picked up my B25, B26 and B38 today. They also came with a > third-party data > storage system with a relatively large disk and a bernoulli drive (plus > disks/cartridges for the bernoulli). Just have to figure out how > I am getting > everything from CT back to Seattle. > > I would love the docs and s/w and would be willing to pay > shipping. However, > the hardware would be a pain to send as well (though, as much as > I dislike the > earlier B20 machines compared to the later ones, a B21 would make > my collection > more complete) and I am sure whoever gets the h/w would also like the s/w. > > alan > > Quoting Witchy : > > Hi folks, > > > > Alan Perry's message about Burroughs stuff has reminded me I've > got loads of > > it here that I'd like to keep but there's just too much of it > and it doesn't > > fit in the museum's ethos, so it's available free to a good > home, UK only > > and collection preferred from the Newcastle area. Of course I don't mind > > shipping as long as full shipping costs are paid by the > interested party, > > though I imagine they'd not be far short of 'an arm and a leg' :) > > > > Rough list: > > > > B21 workstation, working and tested. > > B21 workstation believed to be broken but I've not taken it out > of its box > > since it was sent here a couple of years ago. > > Full BTOS doc set including languages and compilers. > > Boxes of floppies including a couple of BTOS distros. > > Spare motherboard > > Spare hard drive > > Might be other bits lurking in there! > > > > Someone here will undoubtedly get more use out of them than I will.... > > > > Ade? Fancy putting 'em in yer warehouse? :o) > > > > cheers > > > > -- > > adrian/witchy > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From bbradfo1 at ford.com Fri Jun 27 20:21:33 2003 From: bbradfo1 at ford.com (Bradford, Barry (B.N.)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: DECserver 200 Hardware Manual/Owner's Guide Message-ID: <754765F64849D411AAE800D0B7694ED30DCB3545@na1fcm20.dearborn.ford.com> Hi Mike, Wanted to let you know, I received the manual in yesterday's mail. Thank you. Sorry I had to send the thanks via this email address, I was running out of space and I clicked one too many times. Thanks again, Barry From vfurfaro at kva.com Fri Jun 27 20:21:58 2003 From: vfurfaro at kva.com (Vin Furfaro) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Those were the days! Message-ID: Would be nice to go back to those days!! How are you Al? What are you up to these days? Still in computers in NY? I stumbled across the message you posted (below) while doing some research on Michael Daddio (remember the idiot that ran Corvus), and figured I'd drop you a line to say hi. Hope all's well with you. Vinny ************************ Vincent Furfaro President KVA Communications www.kva.com 888-KVA-3366 vfurfaro@kva.com ************************ > From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > Subject: Any Corvus collectors out there? > > Hi, > > I'm new to this list and wondering how many Corvus > collectors are out there. Hi, I'm not exactly a Corvus collector, but I used to work for Lawrence S. Epstein Associates, LTD., and we were the East Coast Distributor for Corvus Equipment for quite awhile... And I have a couple of drives and various odds and ends taking up space in a closet... I have some IBM XT Omninet Adapters, I think a couple of older Apple II adapters, Some Mirror Boards, an "H" series drive, and an old Apple II only OmniDrive. I also have manuals and software, maybe even a constellation adapter too.. Those were the days... When a 70mb HDD sold for $8000.00... :) Al From jwillis at coherent-logic.com Fri Jun 27 20:22:24 2003 From: jwillis at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) Message-ID: Is it still possible to find DSM? Looking to learn the MUMPS language, preferably on one of my VMS machines. From jwillis at coherent-logic.com Fri Jun 27 20:22:49 2003 From: jwillis at coherent-logic.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) Message-ID: Is it still possible to find DSM? Looking to learn the MUMPS language, preferably on one of my VMS machines. From rob at indefinite.freeserve.co.uk Fri Jun 27 20:23:15 2003 From: rob at indefinite.freeserve.co.uk (Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: finds Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628004354.0401d3c0@mail.mosthosts.com> While away, I popped in a car boot sale, and picked up an Apple Mac LC III base unit for 50p! Never having had anything to do with macs before, and only having new PC and old BBC kit about, I'm a bit stuck at first base - I think I have spotted the video out (15 way D-type, and have seen converters for them!) but where on earth does one connect a keyboard and mouse? Internally, it seems like it might be complete: 80Mb SCSI hard disc, one ram stick (one free slot) 68030 processor (and an empty socket next to it???) is this right? I also picked up (also for 50p) a compaq slt/286 laptop (missing keyboard and PSU) and a Mitec 3030D, also missing PSU. As both of course have flat batteries, I've not poked at them much yet. If they are of interest to anybody, drop me a line! (collection/shipping at cost from Salford, UK.) Rob From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 27 20:24:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm getting sick of my DSL modem locking up on me. Some times it will be > good for weeks on end, other times it needs to be powercycled every few > hours. This seems to be one of those every few hours days :^( X10 would be the easiest. For example, you can get a classic Radio Shack "Plug n Power" controller running on a TRS-80 model 1 or an original Coco. But, ... if the entire reason for cycling power is to reset it, . . . wouldn't it be possible to connect a reset cicrcuit in it, and trigger THAT, instead of power cycling? From thompson at new.rr.com Fri Jun 27 20:59:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You can download Intersystems Cache and learn a modern mumps dialect. I know there is a single user license version for NT and linux. Not sure if the same is true of VMS although it is one of the major OS's for Cache. On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, John Willis wrote: > Is it still possible to find DSM? Looking to learn the MUMPS language, > preferably on one of my > VMS machines. > -- From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Jun 27 21:18:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <002d01c33cff$8c817fd0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <200306272211.h5RMBIot015495@shell1.aracnet.com> <002d01c33cff$8c817fd0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200306271914110843.5E3707C7@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27-Jun-03 at 17:57 Jay West wrote: >APC Masterswitch.... new, about $395, but they are on ebay much cheaper. >However, they are rackmountable, and have 8 outlets, wonderful web >interface, and a serial port. The serial port is designed for a console, >but I'm sure you could fudge the appropriate strings to make it shut a given >port down. Yes, you can. I speak from experience, as I'm using two of them here. Probably one of the single most useful devices ever invented in terms of datacenter hardware. >We use them like candy in our datacenter. See? Jay knows even better than I do. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 21:22:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: finds In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628004354.0401d3c0@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: The keyboard and mouse connect to the ADB port, which is a four pin mini-din that looks the same as an S-Video connector on some A/V equipment. Here is a good picture of the connector and it's symbol - http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/olawlor/ref/mac_ports/adb.jpg You'll need a Macintosh keyboard and mouse. If you want, I have plenty, but you should have no trouble finding them locally, all Macintosh computers from the Mac SE all the way up to the beige G3's and G3 AIO's used the same type of keyboard and mouse. From your description, it seems to be complete, and there is a VERY good chance it works. Those critters are really hard to kill. As for a monitor, any older Mac monitor should work, as should most adapters with a multisync SVGA monitor. Not all multisync monitors work, however, as the not all can sync to the proper frequency. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, June 27, 2003, at 07:54 PM, Rob wrote: > While away, I popped in a car boot sale, and picked up an Apple Mac LC > III base unit for 50p! Never having had anything to do with macs > before, and only having new PC and old BBC kit about, I'm a bit stuck > at first base - I think I have spotted the video out (15 way D-type, > and have seen converters for them!) but where on earth does one > connect a keyboard and mouse? > > Internally, it seems like it might be complete: 80Mb SCSI hard disc, > one ram stick (one free slot) 68030 processor (and an empty socket > next to it???) is this right? > > I also picked up (also for 50p) a compaq slt/286 laptop (missing > keyboard and PSU) and a Mitec 3030D, also missing PSU. As both of > course have flat batteries, I've not poked at them much yet. If they > are of interest to anybody, drop me a line! (collection/shipping at > cost from Salford, UK.) > > Rob From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 21:38:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Update on basement sale Message-ID: If you contacted me about something in the basement sale I posted earlier, and I haven't responded, I must apologize. My email has been acting up a little, and I have been flooded with spam. Also, I will need a little time to get everything straightened out and ready to go before I can quote shipping prices or get stuff shipped out. Since I am in the middle of reorganizing the basement/workshop, everything is everywhere, and I need to continue sorting and weeding out so I have more room to work. Also, I should have a lot more stuff to offer soon. Once again, sorry for the delay, bear with me, and I'll definitely be able to get stuff to people, it just may take a few more days to get straightened out. Also, while cleaning tonight, I found some other things Original IBM AT motherboard, complete with stacked RAM chips. Untested. $2 + shipping Original IBM AT power supply. Untested. $2 + shipping Apple IIe(enhanced) motherboard. Works. $2 + shipping XT clone power supply. Untested. $2 + shipping Macintosh 1.44 meg Manual inject floppy drives. Cleaned, lubricated and tested. $4 + shipping SCSI CD-ROM reader. 2x (I think). Works. $4 + shipping Once again, prices are just suggestions, feel free to make an offer. I'll post another, more complete list at the end of the week. I still have more stuff to wade through. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Fri Jun 27 23:06:00 2003 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: New DEC finds In-Reply-To: <20030626214529.72218.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627235445.0154ec98@mail.itm-inst.com> At 02:45 PM 6/26/2003 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I have abundance of VCB02s, so if anyone wants to turn a Qbus >MicroVAX into a VAXstation, I'm sure we can work something out >(no mice, monitor cables or cab kits, I'm afraid). I have those available - but you've got to take the BA123 along with them. Northern Virginia area only as they're far too large to ship. (I've also got a VCB01 with the original Hawking mouse somewhere.) Spousal unit wishes them to be gone. Free for the asking. -Rick From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 27 23:15:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) In-Reply-To: from "John Willis" at Jun 27, 2003 12:45:43 PM Message-ID: <200306280410.h5S4AvOs030281@shell1.aracnet.com> > Is it still possible to find DSM? Looking to learn the MUMPS language, > preferably on one of my > VMS machines. > While not DSM, this page seems to have a GPL/LGPL MUMPS compilier. http://www.cs.uni.edu/~okane/ Zane From archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net Fri Jun 27 23:41:00 2003 From: archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net (Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? Message-ID: <003101c33d26$b5a8dc60$3c5986d1@earthlink.net> I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on. It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, which no disk drives. Have any of you seen one of these before? Why aren't there any references to this catalog number out there? I have a feeling this computer was made as a terminal of some sort for the early "networking" that businesses, and particularly schools, used to do... but if that's the case, one would think it would be a lot more common. Just looking for any additional information you might have..... Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR Archive Software www.archivesoftware.net ----- | Celebrity Direct Entertainment | PO Box 247 - Hutchinson, KS - 67504-0247 | (620) 665-8366 | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net | AOL IM: CelebDirectEnt From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Jun 28 00:28:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... References: <200306280052.h5S0q6i1023162@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <02a401c33d35$86aeceb0$6f00a8c0@athlon> Try and find a secondhand Baytech RPC- lotsa models to choose from-check out their website http://www.baytech.net/cgi-private/product DaveB Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Device to reset power... > > Can you toggle any line on any port (say one of the handshake lines on > > the serial port (RTS, DTR) or one of the lines on a parallel port)? If > > so, you could use it to drive a transistor and then a relay.. > > This is pretty much the kind of think that I had in mind, I'm sure I could > build it, I'm just not sure how. At least the Sparc 5 I'm using has two > serial ports (one is the system console). > > I've got to admit, I *REALLY* like Jay's idea of the APC Masterswitch, > unfortunatly they look to be a lot more than I'm wanting to spend :^( > Still, they would be *perfect*. > > OTOH, your idea, coupled with the 16-port Serial box I've got for the > firewall could make an interesting setup. Eight ports for switches, eight > ports for console cables :^) Assuming of course my OS supports the box. > > Zane From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sat Jun 28 03:05:01 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Apple Mac LC II and LC III References: Message-ID: <018501c33d4b$537c4340$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Fresh from a local garage sale, picked up an Apple LC II plus monitor and some documentation for twenty bucks and am wondering about a few things: Firstly does anyone have the wiring details for the SCSI conector at the back or know where I might get it?? Secondly does anyone know what plugs into the white 96 way connector near the back left of the mother board labeled J20?? I have an Apple LC III with something plugged into this conector and would love to know what it does. I have a LC III that I picked up ages ago, and would love to have them "talking", can anyone give me some details on the "apple talk" conector. Can some Apple fan direct me to a nice juicy apple Tech site, I have never used these systems but they seem to be working, i'd love to get them going with a few other extras, but will need some more detailed info. Thanks in advance, Peter T. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Jun 28 03:39:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: finds In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:54:55 BST." <5.1.1.6.0.20030628004354.0401d3c0@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: <200306280824.JAA04257@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Rob said: > While away, I popped in a car boot sale, and picked up an Apple Mac LC III > base unit for 50p! Hmm..I had to pay a quid for mine. > Never having had anything to do with macs before, and > only having new PC and old BBC kit about, I'm a bit stuck at first base - I > think I have spotted the video out (15 way D-type, and have seen converters > for them!) Yep, that's it. > but where on earth does one connect a keyboard and mouse? > The keyboard plugs into the ADB (Apple Desktop Bus) socket. That's the one with 4 pins and a rectangular slot with a simple diagram of a bus system under it. The mouse plugs into the keyboard. > Internally, it seems like it might be complete: 80Mb SCSI hard disc, one > ram stick (one free slot) 68030 processor (and an empty socket next to > it???) is this right? Sounds about right. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 28 03:52:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Apple Mac LC II and LC III In-Reply-To: <018501c33d4b$537c4340$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030628184642.01282a84@mail.optushome.com.au> At 06:00 PM 6/28/03 +1000, you wrote: >Fresh from a local garage sale, picked up an Apple LC II plus monitor and >some documentation for twenty bucks and am wondering about a few things: > > Firstly does anyone have the wiring details for the SCSI conector at >the back or know where I might get it?? The pinout is on hardwarebook.net, getting a ready made cable should be easy enough though. The same connector is used for narrow SCSI on all Macs with onboard SCSI, Amiga and some PC SCSI cards. > Secondly does anyone know what plugs into the white 96 way connector >near the back left of the mother board labeled J20?? I have an Apple LC III >with something plugged into this conector and would love to know what it >does. LC PDS expansion bus. Most commonly used for network cards. Video cards, sound cards, accelerators and Apple ][e emulation cards for this slot are also available > I have a LC III that I picked up ages ago, and would love to have >them "talking", can anyone give me some details on the "apple talk" >conector. If you only want to connect 2 machines a mac printer cable (8 pin mini-DIN to 8 pin mini-DIN) will work. For more than 2 machines you'll need Appletalk pigtails and cables. The pinout for the connector is on hardwarebook.net, but I haven't been able to find a schematic for the Appletalk pigtail anywhere. They shouldn't be that hard to find. > Can some Apple fan direct me to a nice juicy apple Tech site, I have >never used these systems but they seem to be working, i'd love to get them >going with a few other extras, but will need some more detailed info. lowendmac.com has specifications and other info for old macs as well as mailing lists specific to various systems (compact macs, pre-040 68K, 040, nubus PPC, etc). LCs are pretty limited. If you do get into macs more it shouldn't be hard to pick up more powerful 68K machines cheap. I started out in macs with LCs, but later got myself a IIfx and a Quadra 950 for $10 each :) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jun 28 05:41:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Device to reset power..." (Jun 27, 17:52) References: <200306280052.h5S0q6i1023162@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <10306281019.ZM24196@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 27, 17:52, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Can you toggle any line on any port (say one of the handshake lines on > > the serial port (RTS, DTR) or one of the lines on a parallel port)? If > > so, you could use it to drive a transistor and then a relay.. > > This is pretty much the kind of think that I had in mind, I'm sure I could > build it, I'm just not sure how. At least the Sparc 5 I'm using has two > serial ports (one is the system console). > > I've got to admit, I *REALLY* like Jay's idea of the APC Masterswitch, > unfortunatly they look to be a lot more than I'm wanting to spend :^( > Still, they would be *perfect*. > > OTOH, your idea, coupled with the 16-port Serial box I've got for the > firewall could make an interesting setup. Eight ports for switches, eight > ports for console cables :^) Assuming of course my OS supports the box. That's pretty much how I've done it in the past. You could also use a parallel port to drive several relays. One slightly simpler method I've used is to employ a photvoltaic/solidstate relay. Something like the Omron GVM series will switch 350VAC and currents of about 0.1A (which should be fine for your modem), or the International Rectifier PVA2352N will switch 200VAC at around 0.14A. The Omron ones need about 10mA drive at 12V, the IR types typically 5mA, so you can normally drive them directly from a serial handshake line, and they come in a DIL package the size of an 8-pin device. Cost about UKP6, so I guess about US$10 or so. They're MOSFET devices so they can be used to switch DC as well as AC. There are some other devices that will switch a couple of amps, or even more, and still only need 10mA drive, but they tend to be encapsulated hybrids and take up more room. They also tend to be thyristor or triac units, so best restricted to AC. I've never used them, but Crydom do some devices at about the same price as the small Omron SSRs, except they switch up to 5A with a control current that could be as low as 3mA; however they're bigger and use a triac. One thing to think about is whether you want NO (normally open) or NC (normally closed) operation. Do you want the power turned off (disabled) if the controller is powered down or removed? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jun 28 05:43:47 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes Message-ID: <10306281126.ZM24218@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> A long-time acquaintance of mine (Graham Toal, whom some of you may know) has access to a collection of PDP-8 paper tape which wants reading. Unfortunately some of it is in the care of the Royal Musuem in Edinburgh, who won't let it out of their sight. Does anyone -- preferably in the UK -- have a paper tape reader that could be hooked up to a modern machine (eg a laptop) to read the tapes in the museum, and which they'd be willing to lend? To see what Graham and friends are doing, take a look at http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/ It's worth a look even if you're not interested in Edinburgh. I know Graham reads the list, so replies here or to me are fine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Sat Jun 28 07:04:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: New DEC finds References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627235445.0154ec98@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <000801c33d6c$bcc51220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > the original Hawking mouse I'm not familliar with that name, is that the VS10X with the metal ball or something else? John A. (interested either way) From tarsi at binhost.com Sat Jun 28 08:58:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Apple Mac LC II and LC III In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030628184642.01282a84@mail.optushome.com.au> References: <3.0.3.32.20030628184642.01282a84@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <200306280854.16755@210> > If you only want to connect 2 machines a mac printer cable (8 pin mini-DIN > to 8 pin mini-DIN) will work. For more than 2 machines you'll need > Appletalk pigtails and cables. The pinout for the connector is on > hardwarebook.net, but I haven't been able to find a schematic for the > Appletalk pigtail anywhere. They shouldn't be that hard to find. PhoneNET boxes are even easier to find, usually. With a pigtail on each machine, it enables you to network the two Apples over regular POTS 4-wire phone line. > LCs are pretty limited. If you do get into macs more it shouldn't be hard > to pick up more powerful 68K machines cheap. I started out in macs with > LCs, but later got myself a IIfx and a Quadra 950 for $10 each :) They're nice machines, though. Probably the smallest mac out there, usually very reliable and rarely having issues. I used them for years back when they were The Shit(tm). Tarsi -- ---------------------------- http://tarsi.binhost.com http://www.foreverbeyond.org http://www.binhost.com ---------------------------- From tarsi at binhost.com Sat Jun 28 09:04:01 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <10306281019.ZM24196@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200306280052.h5S0q6i1023162@shell1.aracnet.com> <10306281019.ZM24196@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200306280900.09174@210> There are quite a few HOWTOs out here like this one: http://www.linuxhq.com/ldp/howto/mini/Home-Electrical-Control/index.html which basically drives a relay switch off of the parallel port of a Linux box. I built one of these and they work really nice. After building it, I had it hooked up to the ||port of my webserver in my apartment. I then had my Christmas lights plugged into it. A Perl CGI script on my webserver allowed surfers to go and switch the lights on and off on demand. Since I had a live webcam on the room as well, they could watch the room light up and go dark. Went pretty well and was fairly entertaining until some jerk went and programmed a script to sit there and turn it on and off as fast as possible. That put an end to that. Even if you're not a whiz with a soldering iron, it's easy to make. Let me know if you need schematics and I'll try to dig my device out and write them down. Tarsi -- ---------------------------- http://tarsi.binhost.com http://www.foreverbeyond.org http://www.binhost.com ---------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 10:26:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306272211.h5RMBIot015495@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm getting sick of my DSL modem locking up on me. Some times it will be > good for weeks on end, other times it needs to be powercycled every few > hours. This seems to be one of those every few hours days :^( > > It is fairly easy to set my Firewall up to monitor and determine if the > firewall is down. The question is, what would it take to get that Firewall > to powercycle the ()#*&% #(*&% modem on it's own? I seem to recall seeing > something that can be plugged into a Serial port, and you can send it > signals to turn the power on and off on a receptical. I put together a little system like this for someone before. There are several devices on the market that allow you to send X-10 codes via serial. Here's one: http://www.smarthome.com/1160.html Here's one in kit form: http://www.smarthome.com/1150.html I can't find the website for the one I used, but the one referenced above is very nice. You'll need an X-10 AM466 Appliance Module to plug the modem into. You'll need to write some sort of script on your firewall. I wrote one in Perl that pings a known good site. It allows a couple retries at a configurable interval before it goes ahead and power cycles the modem. Let me know if you want it and I'll send you the script. It's very brief and uses the pretty poorly designed Device::Serial Perl library. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 10:28:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > APC BackUPS Pro. Simple one character commands over a serial interface > to control the load and monitor the mains status. I know a guy in Annapolis > Maryland that sells used ones relatively cheap (less than $100). I bought > six from him and they all work great. He had a stack of around 50 of them > back in March. They are heavy of course so shipping might make them too > expensive for you. Email me off list if you are interested and I'll give > you his particulars. Nice! But the X-10 modules weigh a few ounces ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 10:28:35 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:35 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <002d01c33cff$8c817fd0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Jay West wrote: > APC Masterswitch.... new, about $395, but they are on ebay much cheaper. > However, they are rackmountable, and have 8 outlets, wonderful web > interface, and a serial port. The serial port is designed for a console, but > I'm sure you could fudge the appropriate strings to make it shut a given > port down. Nice! But the X-10 controllers are less than $100. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 10:36:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <003101c33d26$b5a8dc60$3c5986d1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software wrote: > I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on. > It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any > references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k > 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, > which no disk drives. Interesting. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 10:45:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306280900.09174@210> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Tarsi wrote: > I built one of these and they work really nice. After building it, I had it > hooked up to the ||port of my webserver in my apartment. I then had my > Christmas lights plugged into it. A Perl CGI script on my webserver allowed > surfers to go and switch the lights on and off on demand. Since I had a live > webcam on the room as well, they could watch the room light up and go dark. > > Went pretty well and was fairly entertaining until some jerk went and > programmed a script to sit there and turn it on and off as fast as possible. > That put an end to that. Ah, you learned the hard way :) You should've put controls into the program that would require a certain interval between switches to prevent this sort of thing. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jmd5 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 28 10:50:00 2003 From: jmd5 at earthlink.net (jmd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS Message-ID: <1056815806.1795.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> i recently came across 2 X1054A SCSI/Ethenet Sbus cards. I am having trouble finding info about the Ethernet connector. This is not a standard port configuration. Its quite small (measuring 1/2 wide by 1/4 inch tall) and its *D* in shape. Female. are there adapters? adapter cables? I have 2 of these and only need one at present. If anyone is interested in the other card its free. Just pay shipping. If I cannot use this, then both are free for shipping. i also have a sun sparcstation 2 with 425M hd (w/sled), some memory sticks (one stick is bad for sure) with a dual sbus video card (cg6?), floppy drive. the NVRAM is bad. i think i have a sun keyboard too. ss2 for $5 and keyboard is $10. plus shipping. this is *as is* no guarantees. located in glendale california jeff duncan From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 28 10:51:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Apple Mac LC II and LC III In-Reply-To: <200306280854.16755@210> References: <3.0.3.32.20030628184642.01282a84@mail.optushome.com.au> <3.0.3.32.20030628184642.01282a84@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030629014614.0128555c@mail.optushome.com.au> At 08:54 AM 6/28/03 -0500, you wrote: >They're nice machines, though. Probably the smallest mac out there, usually >very reliable and rarely having issues. I used them for years back when they >were The Shit(tm). If it's the small case you like go for the LC475, just stick a full 040 and a 32MB SIMM in there and you're good to go for pretty much anything that'll run on a 68K machine. I ran one for quite a while until I killed it trying to overclock it. It was even quite usable on the web as long as you stuck with something like Netscape 3 and turned javascript off. I've accumulated quick a stack of LCs since then including a few LC475s. I haven't really done anything with them other than check if there was anything interesting on the HDDs. Most of my Mac needs are met by the Quadra 950 and an slightly upgraded PM7500. I do have an LC ][e card that I paid too much for, I'll get around to installing it one day. From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Jun 28 11:00:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: <1056815806.1795.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030629015459.012329a8@mail.optushome.com.au> >i also have a sun sparcstation 2 with 425M hd (w/sled), some memory >sticks (one stick is bad for sure) with a dual sbus video card (cg6?), >floppy drive. the NVRAM is bad. i think i have a sun keyboard too. ss2 >for $5 and keyboard is $10. plus shipping. this is *as is* no >guarantees. You can connect an external battery to those NVRAM chips and program them from the openboot prompt. I did it in a couple of sparcstation 1s a while back. Instructions are available on a couple of web sites that I can't find the addresses for at the moment. You have to cut the plastic away at one end to expose the battery contacts, cut through to disconnect the dead battery, and solder a CR2032 or similar battery in place. Just don't remove the entire plastic top of the chip, there's also a crystal in there. I made that mistake on the first one I did, resoldering the crystal in place was a prick of a job. From grg2 at attbi.com Sat Jun 28 11:48:00 2003 From: grg2 at attbi.com (George R. Gonzalez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: DEC Dishwasher-size racks anyone ? Message-ID: <001b01c33d94$6c650600$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> I have two DEC waist-high racks available. They are the super-sturdy kind that can hold a pair of RL-O2s and a PDP11/34 with no problem. They have the side modesty panels, tops I *might* have around but no guarantee. Best offer I get in 48 hrs gets one or both. I can ship them by ltl truck freight, but prefer pickup in Mpls, MN. Picture of one at alt.binaries.pictures.radio From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jun 28 13:34:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7119c4094c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Tothwolf wrote: > The last email I can find in my list archives from "Jeffrey S. Worley" > is dated 25 Apr 2003 I've got one from the 16th of April that mentions the URL http://technoid.dyndns.org - Oregano (web browser) says the URL doesn't exist... The last message I've got in my archive is 25th April 2003, subject "RE: More DEC Stuff Coming". The plot thickens... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ "I'll take your 20kV and raise you 200kV. Go on, step off that plate. I dare you." From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 28 14:02:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on. > > It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any > > references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k > > 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, > > which no disk drives. > Interesting. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives). What is so interesting, special, or unique??? You could buy your TRS-80 with drives, or you could buy it without drives. You could use it without drives, or you could add your own. With Radio Shack charging $500 per drive, while the aftermarket was ~$200 per drive, why would anybody NOT put in their own drives? Same thing with the 5150 PC. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 28 14:12:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: <7119c4094c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: Does this mean that Jeff Worley (the technoid) is having some family problems? From kempfj2 at rpi.edu Sat Jun 28 14:15:01 2003 From: kempfj2 at rpi.edu (Jesse Kempf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: <1056815806.1795.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1056815806.1795.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030628151018.5319b5cd.kempfj2@rpi.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28 Jun 2003 08:56:46 -0700 jmd wrote: > i recently came across 2 X1054A SCSI/Ethenet Sbus cards. I am having > trouble finding info about the Ethernet connector. This is not a > standard port configuration. Its quite small (measuring 1/2 wide by 1/4 > inch tall) and its *D* in shape. Female. It's an HDI something or other. Sun has a weird dongle that connects to the port and takes AUI on the other end. You'll still need a 10BT->AUI adaptor. Apparently, Sun had things set up so that the same port carried ethernet and audio out. The dongles have a similar port on them specifically for audio... Sun was on crack in the 90s. They still are. - -Jesse iD8DBQE+/egaYkZoTuYeLWQRAs/VAJ9EqISL0ZoiUlNeXK5QQg/obKoGsgCgzUqp eeOw0vOI+u7syCLRvkHmGaI= =oFt3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 14:47:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on. > > > It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any > > > references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k > > > 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, > > > which no disk drives. > > Interesting. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives). > > What is so interesting, special, or unique??? I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives. This is the only one I've ever seen without them. > You could buy your TRS-80 with drives, or you could buy it without > drives. You could use it without drives, or you could add your own. I know. But still, it's interesting to find one where the original buyer just could not afford or justify the cost of the drives :) > With Radio Shack charging $500 per drive, while the aftermarket was ~$200 > per drive, why would anybody NOT put in their own drives? But to buy it and then not put in drives? Did they use cassette tapes forever? Or did they use it for so little time that they never got around to installing drives, even after they dropped in price to $200 or less? This is what is interesting. > Same thing with the 5150 PC. Yes, and I have an originally disk-less 5150 as well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 14:47:46 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Does this mean that Jeff Worley (the technoid) is having some family > problems? To put it lightly. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jun 28 14:57:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Torch haul pictures... Message-ID: <20030628195248.7709.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> >> OK, got a few captioned pictures of the Torch stuff up for those > > What's in the Cifer manuals, Jules? They're all Uniplus system III manuals. cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Sat Jun 28 15:27:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EFE1674.22031.30B8E170@localhost> > > > > I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on. > > > > It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any > > > > references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k > > > > 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, > > > > which no disk drives. > > > Interesting. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives). > > What is so interesting, special, or unique??? > I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives. This is the only one I've > ever seen without them. So is this what you call friendship ... I'm deeply hurt by your attitude of forgetting the M3 and M4 without drives in my Lager I showed you (together with a DT2) ... or at least I would if I'd be a woman :) > > You could buy your TRS-80 with drives, or you could buy it without > > drives. You could use it without drives, or you could add your own. > I know. But still, it's interesting to find one where the original buyer > just could not afford or justify the cost of the drives :) So is my theory. In fact, the M3 and M4 I have without drives are both 16k models, and thus even more supporting that theory. If one doesent have the money, he'll buyes the cheapest version possible (16k and no drives) just to enhance it later on. Or to give up after realizeing that computing isn't for him ... that's the way my two look like. almost like new. > > With Radio Shack charging $500 per drive, while the aftermarket was ~$200 > > per drive, why would anybody NOT put in their own drives? > But to buy it and then not put in drives? Did they use cassette tapes > forever? Or did they use it for so little time that they never got around > to installing drives, even after they dropped in price to $200 or less? > This is what is interesting. Jup, my M3 looks like the original owner did use it with a cassette drive for a short time (at least according to the marks on the keyboard) until he put the machine in the attic. Oh, then there's another way: as Salesman who was able to convince the original owner that a M3 is exactly what he needs to start with - maybe he gave him even a free cassette recorder ... Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jun 28 15:47:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship Message-ID: <20030628204245.41918.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> > This unit sounds /very/ like a Torch 68000 Hard Disc machine I have, so > definitely production quality. Same ridiculous separate power supply.. ahh - so there's one other out there at least then! :) Looks identical, but mine doesn't have the 68000 stencilling on the front of the case. The brackets securing the BBC board to the drive cage and the mounting for the UHF connector (where it plugs into the BBC board) look very improvised on my machine, but maybe that's the way they all were in production. > Mine appears to be complete - it has the modem (connects somewhere to the > torch boards, rather than the RS423 on the BBC, so makes 100% of all BBC > native communications software useless). yes, I just worked that out too; I'd found schematics for the SASI board which wasn't nearly as complex as what I have, then schematics for a mysterious comms board. Turns out that although it's labelled as a "Torch SASI board", the board also carries the control logic for the modem. Why the modem went walkabout from my machine I don't know. > 68000 board is positioned where the Z80 board is on yours, is just bigger. I don't think mine has the mountings in the right place to take either of the two flavours of 68k boards I have. > The barrel jack plug connector on your modems was indeed the standard "plug > and socket" telephone connector in the GPO days (before they became British > Telecom) and was not a mass-market commodity - you had to pay quite a lot > to have sockets installed; most phones were hard-wired. Hmm, I do remember phones being wired into the little box (typically) just inside the front door on houses before sockets became common. Seem to remember phones could only be bought from the phone company too. > My machine /seems/ to run a 68000 version of CPN - there is supposed to be > a unix for it, but I never found a way to boot it into that, or software to > reload it. I had a quick flick through some of the docs I have. They seem to suggest that you need the later Atlas 68k board to run Unix and CPN from a hard drive, and that the earlier 68k 'Neptune' cards wouldn't allow this. See what card you have (it'll say Atlas if it's the later card) - I've probably got everything needed to do a Unix install against one of those assuming any of the discs I have are still intact. > I got rid of most of my other torch stuff; the communicator tried to sell > for quite a high price on eBay.. makes me cringe to think of so many going > to landfill. I heard they weren't that common and a little sought after. Maybe some more will crop up at this guy's house... Is your machine somewhere where it's accessible? I'm curious as to what disk setup you have in your machine; whether it's a 1MHz - SASI - Xebec - drive configuration, a 1MHz - SCSI - Xebec - drive config, or something else entirely. Knowing what ROMs you had might be useful too in trying to work out how to get my machine to boot as at least I can try to duplicate a known-working configuration. And if you feel like getting your hands really dirty, pull the MCP ROM temporarily so that the machine boots to Basic and see if your keyboard produces sensible characters or not :-) (the keyboard mapping is all over the place on mine, but I don't know if it's supposed to be like that or not!) cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jun 28 17:08:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship Message-ID: <20030628220329.74146.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> > My guess is that you have normal XXX boards mounted in a non-standard > case. Possibly the case from some other Torch product. Yep, from some of the Torch docs I have, the case seems to be from a Torch 300-series workstation. These appear to have been the getting-more-familiar (!) BBC core with either a Z80 or 68k Atlas board attached and optional seperate disk cabinet. Seems like there was a stage in production where the disk ran via a controller in the expansion cabinet from a SCSI bus whilst the floppy used a seperate cable going to the controller on the BBC - not the 'SCSI floppy' type setup that my XXX has. >> wired to the back of the case though). There's also markings on the board >> for a VME bus connection, but no socket or associated circuitry. > > The VME interdace is a DIN41612 plug and a few buffers. AFAIK all > production machines had it fitted. fair call. Don't know why mine wouldn't, even if it were a prototype - if the circuitry's there on the card why not install the chips and sockets? Strange. > Yes, it's analoge RGB at TV rates + 2 syncs + drive for a piezo speaker. Ok. The Torch monitors I have all need seperate syncs - explains the RGB board in the Torch 725 machine, which essentially seems to be a sync splitter from the BBC's composite output. >> labelled 'video' - but as the case is a hack who knows... > It sounds like this case once took a BBC micro board... yep, that fits with my 300-series theory. > There's an 8 pin power connector on the stickleback. Is is connected to > anything other than the PSU and the battery? The touch-switch circuitry > is on the PSU board, and sends an interrupt over one pin of that > connector (I can dig out schematics/pinouts if you need them). *wanders off to check... Just PSU and battery. Connections as follows: ^- front of board GND o o +5V GND o o +12V BATT o o -5V +5V o o nc v- rear of board The battery is obviously wired to ground too. 12V from the PSU also runs to the battery via a lot of black insulation tape; I haven't looked what's under there yet... The PSU isn't a standard XXX PSU (which I do have one of; I see the touch-switch connections you're talking about) - this machine has a 100W Wier PSU in it, likely stock to the 300 series if that's where this case came from. [Torch "Hard Disc"] >> OK, been inside now - it is a BBC, with a Torch Z80 coprocessor. Torch SASI >> interface hooked up to the BBC's 1MHz bus, with a Xebec interface hanging >> off > > Are you sure it's SASI, not SCSI (not that it makes much difference. Yep it is - says so on the board :) I have the manual for the Xebec interface to which it plugs into and that's definitely SASI / ST506. There's not much to the SASI board as it turns out - see earlier post; most of it turned out to be comms circuitry for driving the modem and nothing to do with the drive interface. Far as the SASI side of things is concerned, it's just some octal buffers, latches and the like; only about ten LSxx ICs. I had some time to mess around with the machine earlier, armed with spare BBC for testing (which turned out to have an intermittant RAM fault so wasn't much use :-) Far as the Torch machine is concerned, it seems to have a power-on reset fault such that it needs break hitting after powering up (I swapped the Torch keyboard for a real BBC one so at least my keypresses make sense). That shouldn't be hard to sort out. Now, without the SASI controller plugged into the 1MHz bus, if I unplug the Z80 board I can at least get the MCP to drop into the 'no Z80' condition where it gives an error message. I can't get that if the SASI controller is present (whether I have any combination of Xebec board & hard drive present or not) - just the MCP test on the screen and a flashing cursor. I'm curious why I don't see any disk activity at all, like it's not even trying to access the hard drive (ditto replacing that drive with a known-working unit, just with no valid data on it). Maybe the Xebec interface is faulty... [ Torch 725 ] > Definitely not a Quad-X nope :-( I'm quite amazed Torch could produce so many different boxes all based around the same BBC / Z80 / 68k choices though :-) >> Information on what exactly a Torch Unicorn was would be useful, to be >> honest. > > I thought it was a 68000 coprocessor for the Beeb. Ahh, yet another case with the same guts then :) >> I do have a spare hard disk labelled as Quad X, those tape drives and >> controller boards, a surplus Torch-stock PSU, complete ROM set, and the >> complete schematics for the QX VME card. I'll just go build myself >> one... ;-) > > Good luck in finding that custom chip (oh, what did they call it?) that > handles video, etc... the Openchip? True. I do have the programming guide and the spec (which I believe you said that you had), but unfortunately not the chip. I bet the guy I got this stuff from has a whole pile of them! [tape drives] > Oh, it just hooks up to the SCSI bus... It's getting the software sorted > out that's the problem. ahh, fair enough. Not come across anything that'll help you yet though :-( > Still, it can't be worse than the PERQ3a. On that infernal machine, the > minor device numbers have no relation to the SCSI addresses at all! take the ol' tial-and-error approach huh? :) > The Manta is something I know nothing about, so if you have technical > docs I'd be interested in probing you for information... yep, I do - no schematics though :-) Just skimmed the docs, and it looks like it's a pretty flexible unit supporting up to 4 drives, which can be just about anything by the looks of it. Although there are built-in definitions for common drives I get the impression it's all pretty flexible so just about anything can be defined. Parameters can be set for a given drive, including data rate (125/250/500KB per sec), number of heads (i.e SS/DS), bytes per sector (128/256/512/1024), sectors per track (0..244), cylinders (0..245), write precomp, step rate, head settle delay, motor on/off delays, starting sector number etc. There's also a parameter for setting the relationship between logical and physical steps, for e.g. formatting a 40 track disk in an 80 track drive. They actually look like quite nice boards... one of those in the PC could come in handy... cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jun 28 17:25:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: References: <003101c33d26$b5a8dc60$3c5986d1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030628151651.030fd080@mail.zipcon.net> the 32K, no disk systems were usually used in schools in a network 3 setup Does anyone have a spare model 4 disk controller floating around? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 28 18:06:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on. > > > > It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any > > > > references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k > > > > 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, > > > > which no disk drives. > > > Interesting. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives). > > What is so interesting, special, or unique??? > I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives. This is the only one I've > ever seen without them. So, if I take the drives back out, and put in block-off plates where the drives went, then it would make it interesting again? (Not to worry - Eric has my 3's. But maybe I'll "restore" some of my 5150s back to 16K/no drive codition) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 28 18:09:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How do others deal with relatives who complain about collection size? From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Sat Jun 28 18:17:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EFE3E4C.778.3154856E@localhost> > > > > > I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on. > > > > > It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any > > > > > references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k > > > > > 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, > > > > > which no disk drives. > > > > Interesting. I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives). > > > What is so interesting, special, or unique??? > > I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives. This is the only one I've > > ever seen without them. > So, if I take the drives back out, and put in block-off plates where the > drives went, then it would make it interesting again? > (Not to worry - Eric has my 3's. But maybe I'll "restore" some of my > 5150s back to 16K/no drive codition) I'd say it converts grumpy ol' Fred into a true pervert .... :) But you're right, at least eBay-wise ... if a 'naked' machine is suddenly more impressive, I'd also take two M3s with one drive each and convert them to one l@@k r@re no-drive Unit and a regular one to maximize the profit... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Sat Jun 28 18:18:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EFE3EA0.9293.3155CE78@localhost> > How do others deal with relatives who complain about collection size? Put them into relation .... well, or just think of 'em as unrelated? :) Sorry, I don't have real problems with anybody, except myself, about the size of my junkpile. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From tarsi at binhost.com Sat Jun 28 18:54:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306281850.21559@210> > > Went pretty well and was fairly entertaining until some jerk went and > > programmed a script to sit there and turn it on and off as fast as > > possible. That put an end to that. > > Ah, you learned the hard way :) You should've put controls into the > program that would require a certain interval between switches to prevent > this sort of thing. Indeed, indeed. And I thought about adding that in, but eventually decided that it was too much bother just for the entertainment value. :) Tarsi From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jun 28 20:16:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Site... Message-ID: A website (cited on Memepool) about the development of various open-source OSes for 8-bitters. http://www.dunkels.com/adam/contiki/ Perhaps it has been discussed here before; I don't remember it, though. And, from France - one for Intellivision... http://intyos.free.fr/index.php Chz Jhn From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 21:00:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <3EFE1674.22031.30B8E170@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives. This is the only one I've > > ever seen without them. > > So is this what you call friendship ... I'm deeply hurt by > your attitude of forgetting the M3 and M4 without drives in > my Lager I showed you (together with a DT2) ... or at least > I would if I'd be a woman :) Please accept my most humble apologies, Herr Franke. I must have forgotten. Surely, I'm an ass. > Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a > cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in > ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12. By the way, I found one of those recently. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 21:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > So, if I take the drives back out, and put in block-off plates where the > drives went, then it would make it interesting again? No, because you did it retroactively. Maybe it would be a little interesting because you're Fred, but otherwise, no :) > (Not to worry - Eric has my 3's. But maybe I'll "restore" some of my > 5150s back to 16K/no drive codition) Indeed, then sell them on eBay for $500! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 21:02:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306281850.21559@210> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Tarsi wrote: > > > Went pretty well and was fairly entertaining until some jerk went and > > > programmed a script to sit there and turn it on and off as fast as > > > possible. That put an end to that. > > > > Ah, you learned the hard way :) You should've put controls into the > > program that would require a certain interval between switches to prevent > > this sort of thing. > > Indeed, indeed. And I thought about adding that in, but eventually decided > that it was too much bother just for the entertainment value. :) You gotta admit, in hindsight it was probably pretty funny :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jun 28 21:05:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Interesting Site... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, John Lawson wrote: > A website (cited on Memepool) about the development of various > open-source OSes for 8-bitters. > > http://www.dunkels.com/adam/contiki/ Neat! > Perhaps it has been discussed here before; I don't remember it, though. > > And, from France - one for Intellivision... > > http://intyos.free.fr/index.php Too, too, WAY damn cool! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gtoal at gtoal.com Sat Jun 28 22:12:01 2003 From: gtoal at gtoal.com (Graham Toal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes Message-ID: <200306290314.h5T3Ex1C020050@gtoal.com> > A long-time acquaintance of mine (Graham Toal, whom some of you may > know) has access to a collection of PDP-8 paper tape which wants > reading. Unfortunately some of it is in the care of the Royal Musuem > in Edinburgh, who won't let it out of their sight. > Does anyone -- preferably in the UK -- have a paper tape reader that > could be hooked up to a modern machine (eg a laptop) to read the tapes > in the museum, and which they'd be willing to lend? > To see what Graham and friends are doing, take a look at > http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/ It's worth a look even if you're not > interested in Edinburgh. > I know Graham reads the list, so replies here or to me are fine. Hi Pete! Just to introduce myself to the folks here; I was an Acorn system programmer for several years which is how I know Pete, and I subbed to this list a couple of days ago - although my interest here is actually in older stuff, I *do* have an absolute sh*tload of old Acorn systems and boards that I've been trudging around for years and I'll be glad to help with Acorn info when I can. Any of the Acorn kit that I have which anyone needs, they're welcome to it - I'll never use it again, I just wanted to save it from the dumper... (for example I have lots of those 32K system/atom memory cards that y'all were talking about earlier. In fact I have one of the System (4?) file servers sitting on our washing machine right now that I've been meaning to run up as soon as I can find my 110-240v transformer again!; I've restored several hundreds of my acorn 3.5" disks but am only very slowly restoring my 5" disks via a raw-read program that's a pain in the arse to use; I think that job will go faster when I get a real beeb set up with a serial line to my unix - again, the bottleneck is a transformer. I have one somewhere but it's mislaid! Oh - that, and no monitor :-) ) Anyway, yes, we have a significant collection of paper tapes which I used to use personally around '76-78, at which point they were donated to the Royal Scottish Museum. Unfortunately the curators won't let us take them off the premises now in order to read them, so we need to take a reader of some description into their warehouse along with a portable PC. Even a serial ASR33 would do, although it would be a heavy lift! We're pretty desparate here... We also have some older paper tapes in the care of the University computing service which *may* have things like the KDF9 Atlas Autocode compiler on them which we also would like to read, but the PDP8 stuff is the current priority. One of our volunteers, Chris Whitfield, went to visit Hans Pufal last year and recovered data from some PDP9 DECtapes, including the full source of Hamish Dewar's operating system for the PDP9/15. Incidental to that - you may be interested in this file: http://www.gtoal.com/grenoble/source3/8tran.000 Which is the source of the utility whose manual is here: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp15/DEC-15-ENZA-D_8TRAN.pdf There's other related stuff in that same directory such as the source to PIP. We hope to return to Grenoble some time and read some more of those tapes. One of the tapes *MAY* be the mythical PDP7 "Decsys" OS. At least that's what's pencilled on the tape, and the university did own a 7 for CAD work... We have an RL01?? (maybe an RK05?) disk pack from the Wavepower Project's PDP11 which we think may contain "GUTS" - Groeningen University Timesharing System - an EMAS-like personal OS written by Harry Whitfield and his students in Groeningen. We're looking for someone in the UK who may be able to read it. The disk format is the same as RSX11 we think, but we'd be happy even for a sector by sector raw copy. We've restored the sources of several operating systems: EMAS - on ICL2900 and IBM/XA PDP9/15 operating system by Hamish Dewar 68000 O/S by Fred King Mouses for the Interdata/Perkin Elmer range by Peter Robertson and Chris Whitfield This is all currently visible on the net but hasn't yet been organised into a web site. I'll be working on the web site over the coming weeks; it'll appear one day at the URL which Pete mentioned above. (WIP is at http://www.gtoal.com/athome/edinburgh/ ) I recognise a few of the names here. To the rest of you - nice to meet you. I hope to stick around, although I'm reading this via the daily digest so won't be posting as frequently as most of you guys. regards Graham From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jun 28 22:29:01 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Fwd: old hardware help requested Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628222133.02e16918@pc> I don't quite understand what copyright (as opposed to patent law) has to do with his case, but I thought I'd forward this inquiry... - John >From: "Advanced Approach" >To: >Subject: old hardware help requested >Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:51:42 +0800 > >Dear Mr. Foust: > >I am an American living (temporarily) in Hong Kong, I am in a jam here, and >you might be able to help. I would appreciate a couple of minutes of your >time ? just enough time to read this. You may be able to tell me what I >need to know immediately. > >I am a defendant in a lawsuit here. In the lawsuit against us, the >Plaintiffs claim that in the early 1990?s they were the first in the world >to recess a rocker switch. (Actually, they do not use those exact words; >rather, they claim they own the copyright on a recessed rocker switch. For >them to own the copyright, they would have to be the first people in the >world to put out a product with a recessed switch.) > >Of course, their claim is ridiculous, but in court, we have to PROVE it is >ridiculous -- otherwise, the court will probably accept their claim. To >disprove their claim, we simply need to find a product with a recessed >rocker switch that was on the market before 1990. (And of course, we need >to prove that it was on the market before 1990.) > >Friends have told me that recessed rocker switches were common on early >computers, printers, and mainframe terminals. > >Copyright here is all about outlook. Here are two examples of recessed >rockers switches with the outlook that we need: > >The first example: >http://www.auctionshoppingbot.com/misc/Recessed_Rocker_Switch.html > >The above is from a Canon copy machine. > >This example shows well all five key elements that we need: >1) The rocker switch is mounted on a flat surface, >2) The rocker switch is recessed beneath the surface, >3) There is flat surface all around the recess, >4) There is nothing else in the recess with the switch, and >5) The area of the recess is bigger than the area of the switch but not >excessively so. > >This would be prefect, except the copy machine is only a couple of years >old ? too new to prove that recessed rocker switches were on the market >before 1990. (I have contacted Canon, but as a company, it seems they are >only interested in selling new machines.) > >The molded on/off symbols and the indicator light are not important. We are >looking for an example product with or without the molded on/off symbols and >the indicator light ? either is fine. For the switch rocker itself, color >does not matter ? even clear plastic with illumination inside is OK. > >The second example: >http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=115 >http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos.asp?t=1&c=115&st=1 > >DEC 300 series computer from 1979. (On the second link, click on the "close >up".) This is good, and we might use this. It would be perfect, except the >Digital logo is right next to the switch (so this example does not meet key >element #3). So for our purpose, this is only half good. > >If you know of any product from 1990 or before that had a recessed rocker >switch that meets all five key elements, please let me know. As you and >others you know are knowledgeable about old hardware, any information you >could provide would be greatly appreciated. > >I hope to hear from you. > >Thanks, > >Rick Graves >Personal Rick_Graves@CompuServe.com > >Advanced Approach Ltd. >1907 Westley Square, 48 Hoi Yuen Road >Kwun Tong, Kowloon, Hong Kong >Tel: +852 2372-0197 Fax: +852 2342-7197 >e-mail: info@advanced-app.com.hk From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jun 28 22:32:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306280900.09174@210> References: <200306280052.h5S0q6i1023162@shell1.aracnet.com> <10306281019.ZM24196@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200306280900.09174@210> Message-ID: >There are quite a few HOWTOs out here like this one: > >http://www.linuxhq.com/ldp/howto/mini/Home-Electrical-Control/index.html > >which basically drives a relay switch off of the parallel port of a Linux box. Cool, this is the kind of thing that I'm looking for, now to try and figure out what would be required for it to work on a Serial Port... Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From patrick at evocative.com Sat Jun 28 22:43:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > How do others deal with relatives who complain about collection size? Diamonds and German cars are excellent peacemakers, and from what I've read on this list, the monthly payments may be lower for some collectors than their monthly eBay expenditures. ;-) Kidding, of course... Truthfully, my collection is quite modest by anyone's standards, and my wife gives me a lot of latitude. When I don't get latitude, I've usually broken one or both of the following simple rules (made by observation, not declaration): (1) out of site, out of mind--I keep my stuff put away and well organized, and I make a concerted effort not to let it spread outside of a contained area (and never refer to the living room as the "receiving dock"); (2) pace yourself--getting a big box every day, three or four days in a row, starts the "what is all this stuff" conversation. Those are the big ones, but there are a couple of "survival skills" I think also apply to any hobby. First and foremost, practice good relationship management. For example, ask yourself when you last spent as much time thinking about a spontaneous gift or event for your spouse/partner/S.O./kids/family as you do in digging up rusty Vaxen--holidays and birthdays DO NOT count. Has (s)he been asking you for months to do something around the house, and you never have time for it, but you've had bottomless time to repair that ? That's just asking for trouble. Second, don't not spend more than you can afford. This seems obvious, but on more than one occasion I've been surprised at the end of a month by how much I had spent on eBay and thrift shops. Third, give yourself an honest evaluation as to why you are collecting--if the motivation is bragging rights, nobody will care but you, and someone else always has more, so you're wasting your time, money, energy, and probably looking pretty foolish to those around you. In fact, you may be distracting yourself from what really does matter to you. I think real collectors collect for themselves, and for the love of the things they collect, and the challenge of finding certain things and preserving their history. And if it's really about the love, then choose a focus and stick to it for a long while, just like collectors of other things generally do. For me, having one or two really great pieces is much better than having boxes full of so-so stuff. On a recent visit to my house, Sellam declared me a "hobbyist", because my collection is only about a dozen machines and a bunch of add-in boards and peripherals. Yet at the same time, I was able to pull something out of a box that seemed to get him pretty excited (original, boxed, AIM-65 expansion unit and a Rockwell 256K bubble memory board for it). In any case, I think he made an accurate assessment. I only have two machines that I lovingly care for and coo over, keep in their original boxes, take them out to show someone and but them right back, and rarely power up (annually if that). The rest see power and daylight regularly and often, they don't just sit, and they don't not work (at least not for long), and this is probably another reason I don't get much static from my wife about my hobby. My 2p. --Patrick P.S. On a related note for the folks who like to collect things just to have them: my parents were avid "collectors" of Persian and Oriental rugs. They had a few of them around the house, but most of what they had collected was still rolled up and in the shipping material it arrived in, stacked roll upon roll in the garage, and in the nooks, crannies and bottoms of various closets. At times, it seemed like they bought them faster than they could be shipped in. And still they bought more, thinking "some day we're going to do something with these." What they did with them was watch them all burn up with their home in the Oakland Hills Fire, having never once been displayed or even looked at after the day they were purchased. The loss they felt was for all the things they truly loved, like one-of-a-kind pictures and family heirlooms, and they only felt foolish and wasteful about the rugs. My parents' mind-set now is that they are not willing to have (let alone "collect") anything in their house that they are not going to display, use, or otherwise draw regular and immediate enjoyment from. Lesson I took away: use and enjoy what you have, don't have more than you *can* use and enjoy, and certainly don't have more than you're willing to lose. And if its something reproducible like pictures (or programs, data, disk images, etc.), make sure someone else has a copy, because having only a copy rather than the original may be tragic, but that pales when compared to not having anything. (I'll call that 3 more pennies for an even nickel now.) P.P.S. That same fire burned my original North Star Horizon, ADM-3A, and 8K Commodore PET with 4040 floppy, long in storage after I had left the nest. Sigh. Fortunately, my KIM-1 was at the time hanging as a novelty wall-decoration for my cube at work, if you can imagine. --P From aek at spies.com Sat Jun 28 23:46:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes Message-ID: <200306290444.h5T4iK1V008664@spies.com> we need to take a reader of some description into their warehouse along with a portable PC. -- I should be able to send this to you when it gets here. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2538522718 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 29 00:30:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c33dfe$f4257970$0100a8c0@WaynePC> > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Tom Worley, 55, was found shot to death in his home. His son was > > > taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder. > > The last email I can find in my list archives from "Jeffrey > S. Worley" > > is dated 25 Apr 2003, and according > to an email > > dated 13 Dec 2002 that Jeffrey posted to the list, his > mailing address > > was: > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > 1151 N.E. 86St. > > Miami, Fl. 33138 > > If you look on switchboard.com for Tom Worley in Miami, > that's the same address. That's not good. > > Richard Schauer > rws@ripco.com > Wow. Very sad. People Trak also confirms that as Tom Worley's address. It gives a different address for Jeffrey S. Worley, but very close by: Name: WORLEY, JEFFREY S Address: 770 123RD STREET APT. 25A NORTH MIAMI, FL 33161-5653 Address Updated: 7/13/2001 Birthdate: 6/1970 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 29 00:46:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: <002201c33dfe$f4257970$0100a8c0@WaynePC> Message-ID: <002301c33e01$27324080$0100a8c0@WaynePC> > > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > Tom Worley, 55, was found shot to death in his home. His son was > > > > taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder. > > > The last email I can find in my list archives from "Jeffrey > > S. Worley" > > > is dated 25 Apr 2003, and according > > to an email > > > dated 13 Dec 2002 that Jeffrey posted to the list, his > > mailing address > > > was: > > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > > 1151 N.E. 86St. > > > Miami, Fl. 33138 > > > > If you look on switchboard.com for Tom Worley in Miami, > > that's the same address. That's not good. > > > > Richard Schauer > > rws@ripco.com > > > Wow. Very sad. > > People Trak also confirms that as Tom Worley's address. It > gives a different address for Jeffrey S. Worley, but very close by: > > Name: WORLEY, JEFFREY S > > Address: > 770 123RD STREET APT. 25A > NORTH MIAMI, FL 33161-5653 > Address Updated: 7/13/2001 > > Birthdate: 6/1970 > Here's another article from a Florida paper from just last Thursday. The strange thing is that when I searched the 1151 N.E. 8th St. address, there is a Michael Worley listed as living there, born in 1968. The Ledger (Lakeland, FL) June 26, 2003, Thursday Copyright 2003 Lakeland Ledger Publishing Corporation The Ledger (Lakeland, FL) June 26, 2003, Thursday SECTION: Metro; Pg. B1 HEADLINE: SNAKE AT THE LAKE GRAPHIC: DAVID MILLS/The Ledger: Jeff Worley brought his 12-foot, 2-inch Burmese python for an outing at Lake Hollingsworth in Lakeland on Wednesday, drawing curious attention from passersby. Worley's older brother, Jamie, raised the snake since it was about 1 foot long. Now Worley and his brother, Michael, care for the 50-pound reptile that feeds on a diet of turkey legs. LOAD-DATE: June 27, 2003 From tosteve at yahoo.com Sun Jun 29 04:28:00 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Why did Rockwell make a KIM-1 manual? See ebay: Message-ID: <20030629092424.69071.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> A Rockwell KIM-1 manual: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739054837&category=1247 What gives? From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 29 07:03:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Why did Rockwell make a KIM-1 manual? See ebay: In-Reply-To: <20030629092424.69071.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030629092424.69071.qmail@web40910.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EFED563.3020208@gifford.co.uk> steven wrote: > A Rockwell KIM-1 manual: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739054837&category=1247 > > What gives? Rockwell built the 6502 as a second-source manufacturer. Maybe they also built KIM-1 machines, or maybe just badged them? Maybe they wanted to make the name on the manual match the name on the CPU chip? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jun 29 08:02:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Whatever happend to the second VCF East? References: <200306270154.h5R1sZOQ000683@spies.com> Message-ID: <3EFEE277.2010103@tiac.net> I've been away from the list for a while, and may have missed any announcements. Is there going to be another VCF East? From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Jun 29 08:19:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: old hardware help requested In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628222133.02e16918@pc> Message-ID: I don't know if these will work for you, but... On the back of my Apple LaserWriter II, introduced in 1988. http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/laserwriter_II_switch.jpg On the back of my AT&T PC 6300, infroduced in 1984 http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/ATT_PC6300.jpg On the front of my old Leading Edge PC XT clone, intriduced in 1986 http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/leading_edge_PC.jpg http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/leading_edge_PC_switch.jpg. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, June 28, 2003, at 11:22 PM, John Foust wrote: > I don't quite understand what copyright (as opposed to patent law) > has to do with his case, but I thought I'd forward this inquiry... > > - John > >> From: "Advanced Approach" >> To: >> Subject: old hardware help requested >> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:51:42 +0800 >> >> Dear Mr. Foust: >> >> I am an American living (temporarily) in Hong Kong, I am in a jam >> here, and >> you might be able to help. I would appreciate a couple of minutes of >> your >> time ? just enough time to read this. You may be able to tell me >> what I >> need to know immediately. >> >> I am a defendant in a lawsuit here. In the lawsuit against us, the >> Plaintiffs claim that in the early 1990?s they were the first in the >> world >> to recess a rocker switch. (Actually, they do not use those exact >> words; >> rather, they claim they own the copyright on a recessed rocker >> switch. For >> them to own the copyright, they would have to be the first people in >> the >> world to put out a product with a recessed switch.) >> >> Of course, their claim is ridiculous, but in court, we have to PROVE >> it is >> ridiculous -- otherwise, the court will probably accept their claim. >> To >> disprove their claim, we simply need to find a product with a recessed >> rocker switch that was on the market before 1990. (And of course, we >> need >> to prove that it was on the market before 1990.) >> >> Friends have told me that recessed rocker switches were common on >> early >> computers, printers, and mainframe terminals. >> >> Copyright here is all about outlook. Here are two examples of >> recessed >> rockers switches with the outlook that we need: >> >> The first example: >> http://www.auctionshoppingbot.com/misc/Recessed_Rocker_Switch.html >> >> The above is from a Canon copy machine. >> >> This example shows well all five key elements that we need: >> 1) The rocker switch is mounted on a flat surface, >> 2) The rocker switch is recessed beneath the surface, >> 3) There is flat surface all around the recess, >> 4) There is nothing else in the recess with the switch, and >> 5) The area of the recess is bigger than the area of the switch but >> not >> excessively so. >> >> This would be prefect, except the copy machine is only a couple of >> years >> old ? too new to prove that recessed rocker switches were on the >> market >> before 1990. (I have contacted Canon, but as a company, it seems >> they are >> only interested in selling new machines.) >> >> The molded on/off symbols and the indicator light are not important. >> We are >> looking for an example product with or without the molded on/off >> symbols and >> the indicator light ? either is fine. For the switch rocker itself, >> color >> does not matter ? even clear plastic with illumination inside is OK. >> >> The second example: >> http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=115 >> http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos.asp?t=1&c=115&st=1 >> >> DEC 300 series computer from 1979. (On the second link, click on the >> "close >> up".) This is good, and we might use this. It would be perfect, >> except the >> Digital logo is right next to the switch (so this example does not >> meet key >> element #3). So for our purpose, this is only half good. >> >> If you know of any product from 1990 or before that had a recessed >> rocker >> switch that meets all five key elements, please let me know. As you >> and >> others you know are knowledgeable about old hardware, any information >> you >> could provide would be greatly appreciated. >> >> I hope to hear from you. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rick Graves >> Personal Rick_Graves@CompuServe.com >> >> Advanced Approach Ltd. >> 1907 Westley Square, 48 Hoi Yuen Road >> Kwun Tong, Kowloon, Hong Kong >> Tel: +852 2372-0197 Fax: +852 2342-7197 >> e-mail: info@advanced-app.com.hk From tarsi at binhost.com Sun Jun 29 08:54:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306290850.12818@210> > > Indeed, indeed. And I thought about adding that in, but eventually > > decided that it was too much bother just for the entertainment value. :) > > You gotta admit, in hindsight it was probably pretty funny :) Yeah, just the mere fact that I completely didn't see that one coming, to come home one day to the lights doing this schitzophrenic dance. Tarsi From tarsi at binhost.com Sun Jun 29 08:56:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: References: <200306280052.h5S0q6i1023162@shell1.aracnet.com> <200306280900.09174@210> Message-ID: <200306290851.36296@210> On Saturday 28 June 2003 22:28, Zane H. Healy scribbled: > >There are quite a few HOWTOs out here like this one: > > > >http://www.linuxhq.com/ldp/howto/mini/Home-Electrical-Control/index.html > > > >which basically drives a relay switch off of the parallel port of a Linux > > box. > > Cool, this is the kind of thing that I'm looking for, now to try and figure > out what would be required for it to work on a Serial Port... Why serial instead of ||port? Anyway, it should be relatively the same. You just raise a line to activate the relay, drop it to shut it off. Pretty easy all in all. I should still have my script somewhere for the ||port if you'd like it. Tarsi From sml49 at attbi.com Sun Jun 29 09:33:00 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #664 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030628170001.54764.96623.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: I've acquired a whole collection of assorted LC-series machines from my town disposal area - and they almost invariably work as-found, needing a little physical cleanout and maybe a new motherboard battery. I had a Performa 475 running as a web server for awhile, figuring it didn't consume much juice and was relatively quiet but it's been replaced with a Performa 6300CD, a dog of a machine design-wise but adequate to serve up a single page of family photos. I've got a tub of LCs now, plus some parts and whatnot from a few I cannibalized; if anyone needs any perhaps I can help out. One of these days I'll network them all and run NetBunny just for a lark - let the bunny march from one screen to the next. (It's been rainy here lately - I need to get out more.......) Seth Lewin >> They're nice machines, though. Probably the smallest mac out there, usually >> very reliable and rarely having issues. I used them for years back when > they >> were The Shit(tm). > > If it's the small case you like go for the LC475, just stick a full 040 and > a 32MB SIMM in there and you're good to go for pretty much anything that'll > run on a 68K machine. I ran one for quite a while until I killed it trying > to overclock it. > It was even quite usable on the web as long as you stuck with something > like Netscape 3 and turned javascript off. > > I've accumulated quick a stack of LCs since then including a few LC475s. I > haven't really done anything with them other than check if there was > anything interesting on the HDDs. > > Most of my Mac needs are met by the Quadra 950 and an slightly upgraded > PM7500. I do have an LC ][e card that I paid too much for, I'll get around > to installing it one day. From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Jun 29 09:50:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Fwd: [oclug] computer gear garage sale Message-ID: <200306291045.23982.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Someone local is cleaning out their garage. He's selling off a rather large collection of computer software and hardware. The sale started Saturday 28th, and is continuing through to late Tuesday for the long weekend. Contact and location details are available at each of the following URLs: http://www.bjgiles.ca/software_list.htm http://www.bjgiles.ca/hardware_list.htm I can act as a go between if needed. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 29 10:18:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: anybody here interested in the Motorola HDS-200 developement systems? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030629111443.447f681a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The titile says it all. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 29 10:47:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (Same guy?) In-Reply-To: <002301c33e01$27324080$0100a8c0@WaynePC> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Here's another article from a Florida paper from just last Thursday. > The strange thing is that when I searched the 1151 N.E. 8th St. address, > there is a Michael Worley listed as living there, born in 1968. > > The Ledger (Lakeland, FL) June 26, 2003, Thursday > > Copyright 2003 Lakeland Ledger Publishing Corporation > The Ledger (Lakeland, FL) > > June 26, 2003, Thursday > > SECTION: Metro; Pg. B1 > > HEADLINE: SNAKE AT THE LAKE > > GRAPHIC: DAVID MILLS/The Ledger: Jeff Worley brought his 12-foot, 2-inch > Burmese python for an outing at Lake Hollingsworth in Lakeland on > Wednesday, drawing curious attention from passersby. Worley's older > brother, Jamie, raised the snake since it was about 1 foot long. Now > Worley and his brother, Michael, care for the 50-pound reptile that > feeds on a diet of turkey legs. > > LOAD-DATE: June 27, 2003 If you use infousa.com do a look-up on "Jeff Worley" in Florida you get several hits. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 29 10:49:20 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:36 2005 Subject: Whatever happend to the second VCF East? In-Reply-To: <3EFEE277.2010103@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > I've been away from the list for a while, and may have missed any > announcements. > > Is there going to be another VCF East? eventually... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 29 10:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: old hardware help requested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > I don't know if these will work for you, but... > > On the back of my Apple LaserWriter II, introduced in 1988. > http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/laserwriter_II_switch.jpg No good...the power cable receptacle is part of the recess. > On the back of my AT&T PC 6300, infroduced in 1984 > http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/ATT_PC6300.jpg Probably no good...the recess is "artificial". > On the front of my old Leading Edge PC XT clone, intriduced in 1986 > http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/leading_edge_PC.jpg > http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/leading_edge_PC_switch.jpg. That one looks good. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 29 10:59:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Fwd: old hardware help requested In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628222133.02e16918@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, John Foust wrote: > I don't quite understand what copyright (as opposed to patent law) > has to do with his case, but I thought I'd forward this inquiry... It's a design copyright. For instance, remember Apple suing other companies that came out with colorful computer cases after they released the iMac? http://news.com.com/2100-1040-227942.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,20537,00.html I don't know what the outcome of those cases is (too lazy to search more). This one is so banal as to be ridiculous though. How you can copyright a specific feature is beyond me. I thought the American copyright/patent system was brain-dead... Maybe Wayne can shed some light? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 29 11:14:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: <20030628151018.5319b5cd.kempfj2@rpi.edu> Message-ID: <20030629161029.70334.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jesse Kempf wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 28 Jun 2003 08:56:46 -0700 > jmd wrote: > > > i recently came across 2 X1054A SCSI/Ethenet Sbus cards. I am having > > trouble finding info about the Ethernet connector. This is not a > > standard port configuration. Its quite small (measuring 1/2 wide by 1/4 > > inch tall) and its *D* in shape. Female. > > It's an HDI something or other. Sun has a weird dongle that connects to > the port and takes AUI on the other end. You'll still need a 10BT->AUI > adaptor. Apparently, Sun had things set up so that the same port carried > ethernet and audio out. The dongles have a similar port on them > specifically for audio... Looking at http://lios.apana.org.au/~cdewick/data/sunpix/5011869.jpg it has the appearance of an Apple AAUI connector. Given Sun, though, all bets are off. Based on a little googling, it does seem to be a 10Mbps port, though. -ethan From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jun 29 11:26:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: <20030629161029.70334.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Jesse Kempf wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 28 Jun 2003 08:56:46 -0700 > > jmd wrote: > > > > > i recently came across 2 X1054A SCSI/Ethenet Sbus cards. I am having > > > trouble finding info about the Ethernet connector. This is not a > > > standard port configuration. Its quite small (measuring 1/2 wide by 1/4 > > > inch tall) and its *D* in shape. Female. > > > > It's an HDI something or other. Sun has a weird dongle that connects to > > the port and takes AUI on the other end. You'll still need a 10BT->AUI > > adaptor. Apparently, Sun had things set up so that the same port carried > > ethernet and audio out. The dongles have a similar port on them > > specifically for audio... > > Looking at http://lios.apana.org.au/~cdewick/data/sunpix/5011869.jpg > it has the appearance of an Apple AAUI connector. Given Sun, though, > all bets are off. Based on a little googling, it does seem to be a > 10Mbps port, though. It probably is an Ethernet MII interface connector, which was used on many SBus cards, for space reasons alone. The MII (Media Independent Interface) was a "generic ethernet" connector that could be used for 10, 100 and even 1000Mbps media, using a transceiver of some kind to connect the controller (chipset) to the media (cable), much akin to the old (10Mbps) AUI interface. Both of my SBus cards (one with dual Ethernet, the other Ether/SCSI) have MII connectors. You need an MII->UTP, MII->BNC or MII->AUI transceiver to hook it up, obviously. :) --f From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 29 11:27:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: <20030629161029.70334.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Jesse Kempf wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 28 Jun 2003 08:56:46 -0700 > > jmd wrote: > > > > > i recently came across 2 X1054A SCSI/Ethenet Sbus cards. I am having > > > trouble finding info about the Ethernet connector. This is not a > > > standard port configuration. Its quite small (measuring 1/2 wide by 1/4 > > > inch tall) and its *D* in shape. Female. > > > > It's an HDI something or other. Sun has a weird dongle that connects to > > the port and takes AUI on the other end. You'll still need a 10BT->AUI > > adaptor. Apparently, Sun had things set up so that the same port carried > > ethernet and audio out. The dongles have a similar port on them > > specifically for audio... > > Looking at http://lios.apana.org.au/~cdewick/data/sunpix/5011869.jpg > it has the appearance of an Apple AAUI connector. Given Sun, though, > all bets are off. Based on a little googling, it does seem to be a > 10Mbps port, though. Just a warning, Sun's port ISN'T compatible with Apple transcievers. Sun puts 12V for the transciever on the port (like normal AUI ports), and apple only puts 5V on the port. Other than that, the pinouts probably aren't the same, either. You could probably chop off the connector on an AAUI cable and wire it up to a standard DA-15 AUI port. In fact, if you want, I could probably determine the pinout on the adaptor that I "have". (It's not really mine, it's from work...) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 29 12:08:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > It probably is an Ethernet MII interface connector, which was used > on many SBus cards, for space reasons alone. The MII (Media Independent > Interface) was a "generic ethernet" connector that could be used for > 10, 100 and even 1000Mbps media, using a transceiver of some kind to > connect the controller (chipset) to the media (cable), much akin to > the old (10Mbps) AUI interface. > > Both of my SBus cards (one with dual Ethernet, the other Ether/SCSI) > have MII connectors. You need an MII->UTP, MII->BNC or MII->AUI > transceiver to hook it up, obviously. :) Actually, no, it's not an MII interface. Those (at least the pair of Sun ones I have) are wider connectors, similar to a high-density SCSI connector. That connector is a mini AUI connector (or with the proper cabel and setting on the board, it becomes a 10BaseT port. I don't have one of those cables, however.) I don't think you could fit a SCSI connector and an MII connector on the bracket of an SBUS card, anyhow. IIRC, MII has about 34 pins. If I felt less lazy, I'd go look at the one on my Ultra 1... Fred, do you know what number (Xnnnn or 501-mmmm part number) those cards with the MII connectors are? I'd like to see a picture of how they fit the SCSI and MII connector on one card. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Jun 29 12:17:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Those were the days! In-Reply-To: <20030628154501.54219.41409.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030629171237.30275.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:25:37 -0400 > From: "Vin Furfaro" > To: > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Would be nice to go back to those days!! Sure would! But I'd love to do it better... > How are you Al? What are you up to these days? Still > in computers in NY? No. I'm in Philadelphia now. I work for Mac Technology Groupe doing Macs and PCs. On a long term contract with the Philadelphia Board of Education. > I stumbled across the message you posted (below) > while doing some research on Michael Daddio > (remember the idiot that ran Corvus), and > figured I'd drop you a line to say hi. GREAT!!! I've been thinking of you lately. Charlie Hedbring has been asking about you... ( http://www.programsteppe.com ) I drove from Philly to Saratoga, NY two weeks ago to setup 5 Apple II's and assorted other classic systems for him. He's going to bring his Corvus from NYC to Saratoga and next month I'm going to drive up and set it up for him. I still have a load of Corvus stuff in my closet I got from Stewart Newfeld to sell for him... I have to inventory it one day and get it into good hands... > Hope all's well with you. Things are great! Hope things are going well with you... Contact me off this list. Let's stay in touch! It's WONDERFUL to hear from you. > > Vinny Regards, Al Hartman > > > ************************ > Vincent Furfaro > President > KVA Communications > www.kva.com > 888-KVA-3366 > vfurfaro@kva.com > > ************************ > > > > From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > > Subject: Any Corvus collectors out there? > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm new to this list and wondering how many Corvus > > collectors are out there. > > Hi, > > I'm not exactly a Corvus collector, but I used to > work > for Lawrence S. Epstein Associates, LTD., and we > were > the East Coast Distributor for Corvus Equipment for > quite awhile... > > And I have a couple of drives and various odds and > ends taking up space in a closet... > > I have some IBM XT Omninet Adapters, I think a > couple > of older Apple II adapters, Some Mirror Boards, an > "H" > series drive, and an old Apple II only OmniDrive. > > I also have manuals and software, maybe even a > constellation adapter too.. > > Those were the days... When a 70mb HDD sold for > $8000.00... :) > > Al From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Jun 29 12:28:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III - No Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <20030629170001.63325.92960.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030629172353.45945.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> When the Model III first came out, it was Cassette only. and 16k and 32k Models (I have a load of the badges I ordered from National Parts that say 16k/32k/48k, because the Coco used the same ones). That is probably the catalog number for one of those. I can't put my hands on a vintage RS Catalog from those days, but I probably have one somewhere... When the Disk Controllers and drives came out, I had a friend that wanted one badly... I worked in a Radio Shack store at the time. We would get the National Parts Catalog every month, which would often list repair parts and kits in advance of the retail release. We ordered the Disk Controller and Drive system before it became available at retail and put it in ourselves. There was no manual, but it was pretty easy. We figured it out in an hour or two. He had one of the first 48k, 2 Disk Drive Model III's in Brooklyn. I had a fun similar story with my Model I Expansion Interface... I had bought it on layaway from my store and I was paying it off each paycheck. Radio Shack wanted an ungodly amount of money for the Ram upgrade to take the E/I from 0k to 32k. Something like $100 a set, plus installation. I found a company selling the RAM chips for $35 a set (I think), and ordered two sets (the amount of $75.00 sticks in my head. That's either the price of both sets together, or I paid $75.00 each for them...) Anyway... I took the E/I home as soon as the RAM came in. Upgraded it to 32k, tested it... And then brought it BACK to the store and put it back on the shelf. I paid it off a couple days later, and then took it home. I'm the only person I know who voided the warranty on a piece of hardware BEFORE I officially bought it... LOL!! Regards, Al From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sun Jun 29 12:28:50 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: <20030628204245.41918.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030629180544.02252040@pop.freeserve.net> At 21:42 28/06/2003 +0100, Jules Richardson wrote: > > This unit sounds /very/ like a Torch 68000 Hard Disc machine I have, so > > definitely production quality. Same ridiculous separate power supply.. > >ahh - so there's one other out there at least then! :) Looks identical, but >mine doesn't have the 68000 stencilling on the front of the case. The brackets >securing the BBC board to the drive cage and the mounting for the UHF >connector >(where it plugs into the BBC board) look very improvised on my machine, but >maybe that's the way they all were in production. OK, I dragged it out and pulled the lid off... Brackets on mine: http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/100_0193.JPG BIG:473 Kb!! they do look a bit ropey... > > Mine appears to be complete - it has the modem (connects somewhere to the > > torch boards, rather than the RS423 on the BBC, so makes 100% of all BBC > > native communications software useless). > > > 68000 board is positioned where the Z80 board is on yours, is just bigger. > >I don't think mine has the mountings in the right place to take either of the >two flavours of 68k boards I have. The 68000 board in mine is "secured" by means of a raft of self-adhesive clips - a long slot-style one down the edge to the front of the case, and several small ones at the back edge. They are now falling off... Pic: http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/100_0188.JPG 576 Kb http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/100_0190.JPG 1,199 Kb > > The barrel jack plug connector on your modems was indeed the standard "plug > > and socket" telephone connector in the GPO days (before they became British > > Telecom) and was not a mass-market commodity - you had to pay quite a lot > > to have sockets installed; most phones were hard-wired. > >Hmm, I do remember phones being wired into the little box (typically) just >inside the front door on houses before sockets became common. Seem to remember >phones could only be bought from the phone company too. Yup ... those were the days, eh?! I remember wiring up my parents house with plug-in phone sockets using 5-pin DIN connectors because I'd just built a 300 baud modem (Maplin kit!) and had to connect it up somewhere somehow... > > My machine /seems/ to run a 68000 version of CPN - there is supposed to be > > a unix for it, but I never found a way to boot it into that, or software to > > reload it. > >I had a quick flick through some of the docs I have. They seem to suggest that >you need the later Atlas 68k board to run Unix and CPN from a hard drive, and >that the earlier 68k 'Neptune' cards wouldn't allow this. See what card you >have (it'll say Atlas if it's the later card) - I've probably got everything >needed to do a Unix install against one of those assuming any of the discs I >have are still intact. ok, see earlier picture. it doesn't say atlas on it, so presume it's an early one... Oh well. > > I got rid of most of my other torch stuff; the communicator tried to sell > > for quite a high price on eBay.. makes me cringe to think of so many going > > to landfill. > >I heard they weren't that common and a little sought after. Maybe some more >will crop up at this guy's house... > >Is your machine somewhere where it's accessible? I'm curious as to what disk >setup you have in your machine; whether it's a 1MHz - SASI - Xebec - drive >configuration, a 1MHz - SCSI - Xebec - drive config, or something else >entirely. It's got a Torch SASI board in it, so it says, with another interface board underneath that I can't quite see, with the drives under that. >Knowing what ROMs you had might be useful too in trying to work out how to get >my machine to boot as at least I can try to duplicate a known-working >configuration. And if you feel like getting your hands really dirty, pull the >MCP ROM temporarily so that the machine boots to Basic and see if your >keyboard >produces sensible characters or not :-) (the keyboard mapping is all over the >place on mine, but I don't know if it's supposed to be like that or not!) You should be able to get to basic by holding "B" down on a hard boot (ctrl + reset). My machine has the standard OS, a standard BBC Basic, a standard DFS rom, and MCP 1.01 AT. I do remember fiddling with this about 15 years ago when I first got hold of it, and I /think/ I added the DFS and Basic ROMS at that time, to allow for better BBC mode running. certainly they didn't interfere with running it in 68000 mode. I seem to also remember that you cannot put a DNFS rom in it, as that contains Acorn Tube code, which gets confused by the Torch hardware. Keyboard I seem to remember worked just fine - there is an interface board connected to the BBC keyboard port, which in turn connects to the 15 way connector on the chassis, for the big torch keyboard. I've not powered it up yet .. I know it did work, but think last time I tried (after moving house) it didn't boot. Will try again later, when got a bit more time. Rob From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 29 14:35:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <200306280052.h5S0q6i1023162@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 27, 3 05:52:06 pm Message-ID: > > Can you toggle any line on any port (say one of the handshake lines on > > the serial port (RTS, DTR) or one of the lines on a parallel port)? If > > so, you could use it to drive a transistor and then a relay.. > > This is pretty much the kind of think that I had in mind, I'm sure I could > build it, I'm just not sure how. At least the Sparc 5 I'm using has two > serial ports (one is the system console). Try something like this : +------------------------+--------------o V+ | | (To suit relay) --- +------+ IN4148 ^ |\ | /|\ | \ | Relay coil | | \ | | +------+ | | +-------------------------+ | +-+ 1k |/ SIgnal o-----/\/\/-----+------+---------| 2N3904 | | |\>-+ --- / | Serial 1N4148 ^ \ 10k | Or TTL /|\ / | Port | \ | | | | Gnd o-----------------+------+-------------+----------- 0V 'Signal' is any line you can turn on/off, such as RTS (or even TxD if you can send arbitrarily-long breaks). It can either be an RS232 signal, or a TTL one. Choose the external PSU to suit the relay coil voltage. Connect the contacts of the relay to switch whatever you need to swtich. If possible, switch the low-voltage side of the PSU transformer (if the unit uses a wall-wart PSU, this is easy!). -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 29 14:46:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: otrona parts? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030629154313.3bc76ac6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've been playing with the Otrana Attache that I found last week. Cute little machine. I think I might hold onto this one for a while but it's missing some parts. Does anyone have a parts machine or parts that they're willing to part with? I need the cross bar that runs between the handles, software disks and manual, hinges for the keyboard and I LIKE to find one of the 8086 processor cards for it. FWIW I took it apart and checked it this morning and I noticed something funny. The no serial number anywhere on the outside of it but inside EVERYTHING has the serial number on it. The INSIDE of the case, the monitor, both disk drives, the power supply, the sheet metal, etc are all numbered 4616 but there's no number anywhere on the outside. Joe From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jun 29 15:16:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Fwd: old hardware help requested Message-ID: DEC used a lot of these on it's systems. Their external TK50 drive: http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1984-6.htm Their BA123 style enclosure--the nameplates you see next to the power switches are separate pieces of plastic which snap into the plastic of the case, if helps at all: http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1985-2.htm http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1985-4.htm Their VAXstation 2000: http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1987-2.htm The base of their VT-240 terminal is another example, but I can't find any clear pictures of it: http://vt100.net/docs/tp83/full0303.jpg http://www.montagar.com/~patj/dec/ware/GRA_SOF_REF_GD_VT240_241_1984.JPG The one example I have on hand is on my VAXserver 4000-300, though mine's manufacture date is Feb 20, 1991. I can find confirmation, but I believe these were first being built a year or two before that time. http://www.jarai.org/temp/0629_001-sm.jpg http://www.jarai.org/temp/0629_002-sm.jpg http://www.jarai.org/temp/0629_002-sm.jpg There's also the VAXstation 3100 and DECstation 3100 series of computers. I couldn't find a clear picture, but here's a diagram for the back of the case used by those models: http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/Chap2/DOC-2-6.html -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 29 17:00:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: <20030628220329.74146.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jun 28, 3 11:03:29 pm Message-ID: > > The VME interdace is a DIN41612 plug and a few buffers. AFAIK all > > production machines had it fitted. > > fair call. Don't know why mine wouldn't, even if it were a prototype - if the No idea... What (if any) chips are missing from your Stickleback, other than the Ethernet chipset? > circuitry's there on the card why not install the chips and sockets? Strange. > > > Yes, it's analoge RGB at TV rates + 2 syncs + drive for a piezo speaker. > > Ok. The Torch monitors I have all need seperate syncs - explains the RGB board I thought that at least one of the monitors actually started by combining the syncs to make composite sync (and thus you could feed composite sync in on one of the pins). I will have to dig out the schematics... The monitor I am thinking of is almost entirely a Sony chassis, with a little Torch PCB at the input carrying the 8 pin DIN socket and connectors to the monitor video board (flat in the bottom) and the speaker. > > There's an 8 pin power connector on the stickleback. Is is connected to > > anything other than the PSU and the battery? The touch-switch circuitry > > is on the PSU board, and sends an interrupt over one pin of that > > connector (I can dig out schematics/pinouts if you need them). > > *wanders off to check... > > Just PSU and battery. Connections as follows: > > ^- front of board > > GND o o +5V > GND o o +12V > BATT o o -5V > +5V o o nc > > v- rear of board I think that 'NC' pin is for the interrupt input from the touch switch. > > The battery is obviously wired to ground too. 12V from the PSU also runs to the > battery via a lot of black insulation tape; I haven't looked what's under there > yet... If it's like the production PSU, little more than a diode and a resistor in series... Watch out -- if the NICd goes open-circuit, then the clock chip might end up getting 12V.... > Yep it is - says so on the board :) I have the manual for the Xebec interface > to which it plugs into and that's definitely SASI / ST506. There's not much to > the SASI board as it turns out - see earlier post; most of it turned out to be > comms circuitry for driving the modem and nothing to do with the drive > interface. Far as the SASI side of things is concerned, it's just some octal > buffers, latches and the like; only about ten LSxx ICs. One question? Is there a ROM or EPROM on this board connected to the 1MHz bus side of things? The reason I ask is that there's some feature of the BBC micro where you can get it to execute code from a ROM in one of the 1MHz bus address spaces after a reset, if you hold one of the interrupt lines low or something. I wonder if that's where it gets the hard disk drivers from... The Torch _SCSI_ interface just has a normal sideways EPROM (SCSIFS) in one of the Beeb mainboard sockets, BTW... > >> I do have a spare hard disk labelled as Quad X, those tape drives and > >> controller boards, a surplus Torch-stock PSU, complete ROM set, and the > >> complete schematics for the QX VME card. I'll just go build myself > >> one... ;-) > > > > Good luck in finding that custom chip (oh, what did they call it?) that > > handles video, etc... > > the Openchip? True. I do have the programming guide and the spec (which I That's the one... > believe you said that you had), but unfortunately not the chip. I bet the guy I YEs, I think i have some data on that somewhere. I also have _one_ of the chips, in the QuadX board. > got this stuff from has a whole pile of them! If so, try to grab them :-) > > The Manta is something I know nothing about, so if you have technical > > docs I'd be interested in probing you for information... > > yep, I do - no schematics though :-) Argh! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 29 17:00:59 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes In-Reply-To: <200306290314.h5T3Ex1C020050@gtoal.com> from "Graham Toal" at Jun 28, 3 10:14:59 pm Message-ID: > Hi Pete! Just to introduce myself to the folks here; I was an Acorn Welcome aboard! > system programmer for several years which is how I know Pete, and > I subbed to this list a couple of days ago - although my interest here > is actually in older stuff, I *do* have an absolute sh*tload of old > Acorn systems and boards that I've been trudging around for years > and I'll be glad to help with Acorn info when I can. Any of the > Acorn kit that I have which anyone needs, they're welcome to it - > I'll never use it again, I just wanted to save it from the dumper... I have a couple of Acorn Systems (one 6502, the other 6809-based). I am always looking for any of the more unusual I/O cards for them.... > Anyway, yes, we have a significant collection of paper tapes which > I used to use personally around '76-78, at which point they were > donated to the Royal Scottish Museum. Unfortunately the curators Argh! > won't let us take them off the premises now in order to read them, > so we need to take a reader of some description into their warehouse > along with a portable PC. Even a serial ASR33 would do, although > it would be a heavy lift! We're pretty desparate here... I would recoemnd against using an ASR33 or any other sprocket-fed reader. Too much risk of damaging the tapes.... Try to find a Trend USR or HSR, or some other capstan-fed reader with optical sensing of all the holes including the sprocket track. Those readers are remarkably kind to tapes, even if you get a snarl-up. They are not _trivial_ to interface to a PC (the interface is one TTL level signal per track, including the sprocket track, and signals to start the tape moving, etc -- you need to add logic to get it to step one character at a time if that's what you want to do -- but it _will_ stop on a character), but it's not impossible to do that either. The only problem is finding one. I have several of them, but (a) I'm in London and (b) they're all linked to rather larger machines... -tony From jmd5 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 29 17:46:00 2003 From: jmd5 at earthlink.net (jmd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1056927231.1062.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 10:09, Patrick Finnegan wrote: thanks to all for the info. i think 25 bucks for a standard RJ45 is looking awfully appealing right about now. so that leaves one more of these cards if anyone wants it for the price of shipping. $5.00 US Priority Mail. the other one is spoken for. jeff duncan > On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > It probably is an Ethernet MII interface connector, which was used > > on many SBus cards, for space reasons alone. The MII (Media Independent > > Interface) was a "generic ethernet" connector that could be used for > > 10, 100 and even 1000Mbps media, using a transceiver of some kind to > > connect the controller (chipset) to the media (cable), much akin to > > the old (10Mbps) AUI interface. > > > > Both of my SBus cards (one with dual Ethernet, the other Ether/SCSI) > > have MII connectors. You need an MII->UTP, MII->BNC or MII->AUI > > transceiver to hook it up, obviously. :) > > Actually, no, it's not an MII interface. Those (at least the pair of Sun > ones I have) are wider connectors, similar to a high-density SCSI > connector. That connector is a mini AUI connector (or with the proper > cabel and setting on the board, it becomes a 10BaseT port. I don't have > one of those cables, however.) I don't think you could fit a SCSI > connector and an MII connector on the bracket of an SBUS card, anyhow. > IIRC, MII has about 34 pins. If I felt less lazy, I'd go look at the one > on my Ultra 1... > > Fred, do you know what number (Xnnnn or 501-mmmm part number) those cards > with the MII connectors are? I'd like to see a picture of how they fit > the SCSI and MII connector on one card. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ -- jmd www.theshrub.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Jun 29 17:55:01 2003 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Perkin-Elmer 7300 In-Reply-To: <20030627170001.42204.9039.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200306280135.h5S1ZYor072984@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > Message: 33 > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:40:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Re: Perkin Elmer 7300 Pro System Museum Quality! > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > --- Mail List wrote: > > Here's one some of you might like. > > > > Perkin Elmer 7300 Pro System Museum Quality! > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738081449 > > I tried to sell one of those years ago at a hamfest. No takers at $15. > > We used it as a cross-development environment for COMBOARD and follow- > on products - mostly as a departmental C compiler that would emit > 68000 assembler (we were using Whitesmith's C on the VAX for the > system and VMS application code). > > Nice little box, System III. Got mine in storage, along with all > the diskettes and manuals. > > -ethan > > > System III or MicroXelos (UniPlus System V)... There were a number of misfeatures including a very slow video card and a bus that couldn't handle faster chips than the 68k that was in it. I dumped a pickup truck full of 'em (7350's) in the trash after rescuing a bunch out of Concurrent in '89 or so. Couldn't give 'em away at Trenton. I had all the distribution software including RM/Cobol, Idris, and stuff. Later I wanted to get my hands on a Masscomp 5550 or so to replace it. Concurrent bought up Masscomp but getting the boxes was nearly impossible at the time and FreeBSD and Linux made the 68010/020/030 Masscomps less than attractive in a price/performance/size kind of way. They also needed heavy hot tubes like the early Suns did. There was an attempt to get Concurrent to build a 68020 version of the 7350 for Perkin-Elmer (since they split into two companies) and the 68000 would barely take a 68010... but the Versabus backplane had noise and timing issues when you tried to push it. There was even an XF/200? version -- with 16 (IIRC serial ports). I ran a news feed to the box at home with 2 80 meg MFM ST506 drives... Slow but it worked. Fed it with a Trailblazer Plus and later a T2500. Amazing, but I think the modem had more processing power. Now the video cards have more power than the CPU's did back then. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Sun Jun 29 17:55:29 2003 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: new finds :-) Message-ID: <200306280522.h5S5M8JN001453@swift.cs.unc.edu> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:53:29, Joe wrote: > Visted one of my favorite scrounging places today and found a Otrona > Attache and a Soroc Terminal (1802 CPU :-) :-) Also got two shugart 851 8" > floppy drives, an IC Master (1988) a stack of DRI CPM manuals, a DEC PDP-8 > handbook and a notebook full of Mostek computer board manuals. Oh and an > AIM-65 User's Guide. Are you sure about the Soroc having an 1802? Which model of Soroc? I thought Sorocs used z80s. The one sitting next to me here (an IQ-135) definitely has a z80. It does have a 1602 UART though... Speaking of which, how many Sorocs are still out there? Were they as common in the rest of the world as they seemed in my corner of it? I hardly ever hear of them anymore, even on e-bay. Bill. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jun 29 17:55:56 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: finds In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628004354.0401d3c0@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: > While away, I popped in a car boot sale, and picked up an Apple > Mac LC III > base unit for 50p! Never having had anything to do with macs If you'd asked me you could've had one for nowt - I have many spares :) > think I have spotted the video out (15 way D-type, and have seen > converters > for them!) but where on earth does one connect a keyboard and mouse? The ADB port (apple desktop bus?). The symbol for it is a vertical line with 3 dots on it. It's next to the printer port - the one with a little printer above it. > Internally, it seems like it might be complete: 80Mb SCSI hard disc, one > ram stick (one free slot) 68030 processor (and an empty socket next to > it???) is this right? Yep. The empty socket is for a copro. Beware though that the PRAM battery is probably dead....if you DO find a monitor for it (and keyboard and mouse), switch it on and get the 'happy mac' sound but no picture that'll be what's up. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From matthieu.benoit at free.fr Sun Jun 29 17:56:24 2003 From: matthieu.benoit at free.fr (Matthieu BENOIT) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Stag 39M200 Module Message-ID: <002a01c33e2a$11a9e000$0c00a8c0@garnier> Hello, I have some documentation about STAG 39M200 Module for Stag PP39 Programmer. I have Revision 14 Eprom for this Module. Are You still looking for it? Look at my resources page http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/119.htm or contact me. @+ MB. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jun 29 17:56:51 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Torch haul pictures... In-Reply-To: <20030627113121.72977.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Imagine my face green with jealousy :o) witchy > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 27 June 2003 12:31 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Torch haul pictures... > > > OK, got a few captioned pictures of the Torch stuff up for those > interested at: > > http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/torchweb/index.html > > (the non-thumbnail images are around 640x480ish and between 50 and 100KB) > > I've been inside everything to do some initial checks - no > obvious signs of > damage and everything was pretty clean and dirt-free. Still need > to test PSUs > on a dummy load etc. before I try powering anything up though. > > cheers > > Jules > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From Jerishepherd at aol.com Sun Jun 29 17:57:20 2003 From: Jerishepherd at aol.com (Jerishepherd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <39.3abcaede.2c2f1ed2@aol.com> Saw your ad in the net today, and I am looking desperately for a power pack for an XEC5. I am having trouble finding one, and need one as soon as possible. I am in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl, and my email addy is Jerishepherd@aol.com Phone Number 954 435-7813 Cell Number 954 600 7611 Thank you. Jeri From tim at tim-mann.org Sun Jun 29 17:57:47 2003 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: manual for 5 1/4" HD drive Message-ID: <20030628111427.7d1e60ab.tim@tim-mann.org> Joe writes: > I have a project in mind that I'll be using a High Density (1.2Mb) > floppy drive for. But it's going to take some tinkering with the jumpers to > make it work and I'll need a manual for it. Does anyone know if where I can > locate a manual for any of the HD drives on-line or does anyone have a > manual (or copy) that they're willing to part with? Teac still has manuals for their 5.25" drives on their Web site. See http://www.teac.com/DSPD/catalog.htm#OldFD I found a scan of a Mitsubishi MF501B/MF503B/MF504B manual on a BBC Micro web site. See http://bbc.nvg.org/dir.php3?dir=doc/datasheets -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From ktoker at marmara.edu.tr Sun Jun 29 17:58:16 2003 From: ktoker at marmara.edu.tr (Kenan TOKER) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: pen Message-ID: <20030629005458.92368.qmail@marmara.edu.tr> I can provide you the required pens BP-2, EA-850B, EA-850C 4 ball point pens, if you still need them. From wrawbee at hotmail.com Sun Jun 29 17:58:43 2003 From: wrawbee at hotmail.com (Robbie Sanders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Replacement CFX-200 Buttons Message-ID: The best way to replace the buttons on a CFX-200 is to buy a used CD-401. This is an earlier metal databank watch that uses the exact same case, buttons and band as the CFX-200. The buttons are easily transferrable. You can buy a CD-401 relatively inexepensively through Ebay. I recently purchased one for $24.00 (US). You cannot order these parts. When lookin for one, the key words should be Casio and "calculator" or "data bank." _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 29 20:10:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: new finds :-) In-Reply-To: <200306280522.h5S5M8JN001453@swift.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030629204327.37cfb356@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bill, I THOUGHT it had an 1802 until I took it apart for cleaning/checking. Then I found out that it had one of those "RARE" NEC Z-80s :-/ It turns out that this is a model 130 and not a model 120. The 120s did use 1802s. This one also has the 1602 USART. I searched E-bay and didn't find anything related to Soroc. I searched the net and found quite a few hits for the model 120 and only one hit for the 130 and that was a message that Erik K. posted few weeks ago. I didn't see anything for a 135 but I did see a mention of a model 140. The one sitting next to me here (an IQ-135) >definitely has a z80. Do you need a 130 to go with it? This one is interesting but I don't have room for things like this. Joe At 01:22 AM 6/28/03 -0400, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:53:29, Joe wrote: >> Visted one of my favorite scrounging places today and found a Otrona >> Attache and a Soroc Terminal (1802 CPU :-) :-) Also got two shugart 851 8" >> floppy drives, an IC Master (1988) a stack of DRI CPM manuals, a DEC PDP-8 >> handbook and a notebook full of Mostek computer board manuals. Oh and an >> AIM-65 User's Guide. > >Are you sure about the Soroc having an 1802? Which model of Soroc? I >thought Sorocs used z80s. The one sitting next to me here (an IQ-135) >definitely has a z80. It does have a 1602 UART though... > >Speaking of which, how many Sorocs are still out there? Were they as >common in the rest of the world as they seemed in my corner of it? I >hardly ever hear of them anymore, even on e-bay. > > Bill. From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Sun Jun 29 22:21:00 2003 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: New DEC finds In-Reply-To: <000801c33d6c$bcc51220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627235445.0154ec98@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030629230834.00bbebb0@mail.itm-inst.com> At 07:59 AM 6/28/2003 -0400, John Allain wrote: > > the original Hawking mouse > >I'm not familliar with that name, is that the VS10X >with the metal ball or something else? Yes, IIRC - it's the original VCB01 mouse with the wires-on-wheels sensors for mouse movement. I'm probably mis-remembering the name of the company that DEC OEM'd the mouse from. I've at least one complete QDSS/VAXstation-1 system (other than disk drives - just about every RD53 I've ever had is now dead.) I think including the monitor but would have to dig through the storage area to make sure. -Rick From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jun 29 22:37:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: How Many SOROC's Was - Re: new finds :-) References: <200306280522.h5S5M8JN001453@swift.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <016501c33eb8$3cea79d0$f60add40@oemcomputer> I have one here in Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Yakowenko" To: Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 12:22 AM Subject: Re: new finds :-) > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:53:29, Joe wrote: > > Visted one of my favorite scrounging places today and found a Otrona > > Attache and a Soroc Terminal (1802 CPU :-) :-) Also got two shugart 851 8" > > floppy drives, an IC Master (1988) a stack of DRI CPM manuals, a DEC PDP-8 > > handbook and a notebook full of Mostek computer board manuals. Oh and an > > AIM-65 User's Guide. > > Are you sure about the Soroc having an 1802? Which model of Soroc? I > thought Sorocs used z80s. The one sitting next to me here (an IQ-135) > definitely has a z80. It does have a 1602 UART though... > > Speaking of which, how many Sorocs are still out there? Were they as > common in the rest of the world as they seemed in my corner of it? I > hardly ever hear of them anymore, even on e-bay. > > Bill. From donm at cts.com Sun Jun 29 23:06:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: otrona parts? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030629154313.3bc76ac6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > I've been playing with the Otrana Attache that I found last week. Cute > little machine. I think I might hold onto this one for a while but it's > missing some parts. Does anyone have a parts machine or parts that they're > willing to part with? I need the cross bar that runs between the handles, > software disks and manual, hinges for the keyboard and I LIKE to find one > of the 8086 processor cards for it. > > FWIW I took it apart and checked it this morning and I noticed something > funny. The no serial number anywhere on the outside of it but inside > EVERYTHING has the serial number on it. The INSIDE of the case, the > monitor, both disk drives, the power supply, the sheet metal, etc are all > numbered 4616 but there's no number anywhere on the outside. > > Joe Surprisingly, that seems to be pretty typical. - don From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Jun 29 23:12:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Junque Shops in LA area Message-ID: <7DE6045E-AAB0-11D7-8B38-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Passing through LA on my way to MO, What's to see? From n8uhn at yahoo.com Sun Jun 29 23:19:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Omron Programmable Controller Message-ID: <20030630041505.18214.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> The only Omron plc's i saw used a cartridge to store the pgm. the "programmer" was actullay an eprom burner with cassette ports on it to store an offline pgm. if you plc has a removeable box with a connector on the back of it (cartridge) open it up and see if it has an eprom in it . if it does you'll need the omron burner to store a ladder pgm in it. do a search for Omron on the net and i am quite sure you'll find info on it (omron's web page may still have the plc line on thier webpage, an email to the company will tell if they still have manuals on it). sorry, i have never pgmed an omron - just a ge series 6 model 60 (yes i have the industral hardened ibm luggable and all the pgms) and the westinghouse pc-1100's (yes i have all the accys for those too as well as the star tech serial/computer cassette drive) Bill Message: 10 From: "John Allain" To: Subject: Omron Programmable Controller Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I have an older one here, an Omron Sysmac SCY-P5R-30E with control panel. Someone out there know something about it? I need to do basically one of the following. 1./ Find documentation so as to make it a useful member of the collection. 2./ Give it to someone that more or less needs it. 3./ Scrap it for parts. Your help appreciated. John A. From luc at e2t.be Mon Jun 30 01:45:01 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720E36A8@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD640@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> If you can read magtape (9track) I can send you the distribution tape (a copy) what I have is the version for PDP11 running native on this machines (min. 11/40 on UNIBUS; 11/23 on QBUS) I don't have VMS versions gr. Luc -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens John Willis Verzonden: vrijdag 27 juni 2003 20:46 Aan: Cctalk@Classiccmp. Org Onderwerp: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) Is it still possible to find DSM? Looking to learn the MUMPS language, preferably on one of my VMS machines. From SPEDRAJA at ono.com Mon Jun 30 02:34:00 2003 From: SPEDRAJA at ono.com (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) Message-ID: <40829401fd.401fd40829@ono.com> I don't know him, but many users of SIMH would agree to have one copy of DSM-11 available. Myself one of them, just by the way ;-) Other old PDP software is welcome too. Greetings Sergio ----- Mensaje Original ----- Remitente: Luc Vande Velde Fecha: Lunes, Junio 30, 2003 8:40 am Asunto: RE: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) > If you can read magtape (9track) I can send you the distribution > tape (a > copy) > what I have is the version for PDP11 running native on this > machines (min. > 11/40 on UNIBUS; 11/23 on QBUS) > I don't have VMS versions > > gr. > > Luc > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens John Willis > Verzonden: vrijdag 27 juni 2003 20:46 > Aan: Cctalk@Classiccmp. Org > Onderwerp: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) > > > Is it still possible to find DSM? Looking to learn the MUMPS language, > preferably on one of my > VMS machines. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jun 30 03:32:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: New here... Looking for PDP 11 / RSTS help In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > I have no problem building the system from the tapes (images)... that' s > all fine. When you look at the HARDWR LIST (when you don't start > timesharing) it sees the device (DZ0:) --but-- > > when I try to connect via telnet, I just get > > "welcome to the PDP simulator" and then nothing. Hmm, wasnt there a switch ("att -m dz0" comes to mind) you had to use to change SimH's default behavior w.r.t. carrier detection? Basically, although the connection works (you got the Telnet banner), the DZ11 does not report a valid carrier-detect signal to RSTS, meaning it wont fire up a new terminal session. I had the same problem in Ultrix-11 when this feature was first present in SimH. > Please help, if you can. I'm starting to lose sleep over this one. Oh > yes, my wife did fill boxes with all sorts of stuff, like toilet roll and > suave shampoo, so why my precious PDP 11/23 (and my TRS-80 Model II) had to > be left behind I don't know. Women! Next time, leave the wife in Phx. :) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jun 30 03:39:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) In-Reply-To: <40829401fd.401fd40829@ono.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > I don't know him, but many users of SIMH would agree to have one > copy of DSM-11 available. Myself one of them, just by the way ;-) > > Other old PDP software is welcome too. Likewise. I am fairly close to Luc, so I could go and get the tape, read it into an image here, copy it so he has an extra copy, take them back, and send out the image... That said... dang, I *still* need (access to) a working 9-track 800bpi unit... anyone? In Holland, or within a day's drive from there? --fred From kurtk7 at visi.com Mon Jun 30 04:09:00 2003 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine In-Reply-To: <003101c33d26$b5a8dc60$3c5986d1@earthlink.net> References: <003101c33d26$b5a8dc60$3c5986d1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1056963888.3efffd30e331b@my.visi.com> Hello all, I have contributed to the lists on occasion, but now I have a special favor. I don't expect a response given the system, but you never know. Hope springs eternal. On a regular basis there are requests for this system or that. For reasons from simple curiousity to treasured memories of youth. Mine is the latter. The first computer I ever saw, way back when in my younger days, on the East coast, was the APF Imagination Machine and it has been my dream to own one. It was a simple advertisement in a magazine that caught my eye. Up until then, I had no interest in computers, never gave them a thought. I remember looking at this large, sprawling, two in one system and was enthrawed. Then I saw the price and knew it was out of reach, for back then it was several thousand dollars. It altered the course of my life, like so many of that day to pursue computers as an interest and even a career. The rarer systems I have had to let slip by, but this one is an exception. Its not a rational thing to single out a particular computer system yet I do. I am asking, even begging for some assistance in locating one, and would pay quite well for the privelege of owning one. I had nearly forgotten about this until recently when I found one. Despite efforts I missed my chance, so I make a plea, for anyone with any information to please email me. The dual system (computer and game system), disk drive, monitor, manuals, literature and brochures, yes I seek it, any and all that relate. Thank you for reading my small missive. I'm curious, what are your 'first' stories, when did you see computers that first time in a way that changed your perception of them. From just a machine to what a great machine? If anyone can help, I would appreciate it. Kurt From SPEDRAJA at ono.com Mon Jun 30 04:14:01 2003 From: SPEDRAJA at ono.com (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) Message-ID: <46e77470dd.470dd46e77@ono.com> > > I don't know him, but many users of SIMH would agree to have one > > copy of DSM-11 available. Myself one of them, just by the way ;-) > > > > Other old PDP software is welcome too. > Likewise. I am fairly close to Luc, so I could go and get the tape, > read it into an image here, copy it so he has an extra copy, take them > back, and send out the image... Great, great, great, Fred :-) > That said... dang, I *still* need (access to) a working 9-track 800bpi > unit... anyone? In Holland, or within a day's drive from there? I can't help by now. I have one PERTEC and one SCSI tape unit pending to pick up. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 30 05:00:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: new finds :-) In-Reply-To: <200306280522.h5S5M8JN001453@swift.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > Speaking of which, how many Sorocs are still out there? Were they as > common in the rest of the world as they seemed in my corner of it? I > hardly ever hear of them anymore, even on e-bay. It was the first dumb terminal I ever got (way back before I became a "collector"). They are not terribly common, bordering on rare. It's a nice terminal. I like the beep sound it makes whenever you press a key. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Mon Jun 30 05:08:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: MAC Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628004354.0401d3c0@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030630110018.00b673f0@mail.bedlambells.com> While we are on the subject of Macs, I have a question. I used to work in the Mac Repair shop at ASU, fixing dead Macs. We used to get a lot of the old "all in one" (SE, SE/30, Classic, Classic II) Macs in with bad analog boards (they would make an evil buzzing noise one day, and then just refuse to work...) We would fix this by replacing the bad board, as you do, not repairing the board itself. My Classic II got left on over the weekend, and was found dead and buzzing. It needs a new board. I was wondering if anyone knew what component it was on the analog (or power/sweep) board that causes it to die, so could fire up my soldering iron and have a go... ...much easier that enplaning to the aforementioned wife why I spent ?30 on a computer that was free if i would remove it... Take Care, mark [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Mon Jun 30 05:21:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Device to reset power... In-Reply-To: <00d401c33d0c$4ae79a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030630110846.01b87cc0@mail.bedlambells.com> I take it the software didn't hold files open. *My* old BBS software opened and closed files as needed, and was slightly slower than my friends software (my evil competitor at the time) which opened all the files on startup and kept them open. Can you say file corruption? Sure you can... and *HE* was the professional programmer... (: Take Care, Mark At 20:29 27/06/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I used to have a BBS system that needed to be periodically reset. I just >got one of those digital clock-timers from Radio Shack, which you plug >in to the wall, and you can plug things into them and set an on/off >time. I set the ON time to 4:01 AM and the OFF time to 4:00 AM. So at >4:00 it would go off, then back on at 4:01. Worked great. > > - Bob [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Mon Jun 30 05:34:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: New here... Looking for PDP 11 / RSTS help In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030630112434.01babe78@mail.bedlambells.com> Cool! Thanks for your advice, it works great now! Now the problem I have is trying to set up Dungeo (and adventure and such like...) on this machine. The only source I can find is for VMS (off the trailing edge website)... I've experimented with using a rt11 .sav file, but so far no dice. Does anyone have .sav versions of these old games for RSTS/E? Or the fortran sources for RSTS? Wow. 12 hours to test a disk. Ah, the good old days. I thought it was slow (at about 10 minutes) on my 366 laptop... (; I'm working out an idea in my head to interface the whole thing though my (homebrew) Ruby BBS. Might mean creating a couple hundred accounts, though... Thanks for all your help. This is a great group. I think you guys are stuck with me now. Take Care, Mark At 07:00 27/06/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Am I to understand that you're using a hacked version of SIMH V2.3? Go >get a copy of the real thing, that will hopefully solve your problem. >http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > >Bob, just released V3.0, V2.3 is *very* old. > > >Thought for the day, installing RSTS/E by the book on a 2GB drive on a >PDP-11/73 is "fun", it takes forever to do the three checks of the >drive! As I recall, just one pass took over 12 hours. On an emulator, >it's very fast. > > Zane [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Mon Jun 30 05:52:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: New here... Looking for PDP 11 / RSTS help In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141917.00b80b30@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030630114531.01bb8ea0@mail.bedlambells.com> Thanks for the info. I think this also has to do with what Thord said in an email to me... about setting the lines to dialup. Right now, on my setup, you have to hit the return key a few times before the simulator notices you are there. I'll have a play with it when (a) I get home or (b) by boss isn't watching... (; Oh ya, I had to take the wife... it was her idea. She's from England, and didn't like Phoenix. So, I am stuck here now... for the duration... take care, Mark At 10:25 30/06/2003 +0200, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > >Hmm, wasnt there a switch ("att -m dz0" comes to mind) you had to use >to change SimH's default behavior w.r.t. carrier detection? Basically, >although the connection works (you got the Telnet banner), the DZ11 >does not report a valid carrier-detect signal to RSTS, meaning it >wont fire up a new terminal session. > >I had the same problem in Ultrix-11 when this feature was first >present in SimH. > >Next time, leave the wife in Phx. :) > >--f [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jun 30 06:57:01 2003 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: Atari Transputer Workstation for sale Message-ID: <001301c33efe$23a7ca40$6401a8c0@zeus> Hi, I know a source for a complete ATW800 in the UK area if anyone is interested. They are asking 250 UKP for it (Cambridge area). Let me know, condition is untested. I wish I could go for it, but since I am across the pond, it is just too costly :-( Cheers, Ram From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 07:14:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: MAC Stuff In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030630110018.00b673f0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure about the Classic II, but I know on the other compact macs, a big problem was C1 on the analog board, and cracked solder joints on J4 and J1. This generally caused "vertical line disease" where the display collapses into a vertical line. When the machine won't turn on and makes a "flup flup flup" noise, then there are generally more severe problems. T1 could have failed, or an electrolytic capacitor. Check C3, C24, C25, C26, C29, C30 and C31. These may be different on the Classic II. I haven't really had to fix many Classic II's, mostly just the earlier macs (Mac Plus especially...). Also, just check for obviously burnt parts, bulging electrolytics and cracked solder joints. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 06:04 AM, Mark Firestone wrote: > While we are on the subject of Macs, I have a question. > > I used to work in the Mac Repair shop at ASU, fixing dead Macs. We > used to get a lot of the old "all in one" (SE, SE/30, Classic, Classic > II) Macs in with bad analog boards (they would make an evil buzzing > noise one day, and then just refuse to work...) > > We would fix this by replacing the bad board, as you do, not repairing > the board itself. > > My Classic II got left on over the weekend, and was found dead and > buzzing. It needs a new board. I was wondering if anyone knew what > component it was on the analog (or power/sweep) board that causes it > to die, so could fire up my soldering iron and have a go... > > ...much easier that enplaning to the aforementioned wife why I spent > ?30 on a computer that was free if i would remove it... > > Take Care, > > mark > > > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Mon Jun 30 08:02:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:37 2005 Subject: MAC Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030630110018.00b673f0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030630135656.01bb87b8@mail.bedlambells.com> Thanks for the information. I'll take it apart and have a look. Based on the amount of rust on the port connectors on the logic board, and the rust on the metal frame around the power switch, it has been exposed to some of this wonderful British weather... I'll let you know if it's a cap or something. Take Care, Mark At 08:09 30/06/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I'm not sure about the Classic II, but I know on the other compact macs, a >big problem was C1 on the analog board, and cracked solder joints on J4 >and J1. This generally caused "vertical line disease" where the display >collapses into a vertical line. When the machine won't turn on and makes a >"flup flup flup" noise, then there are generally more severe problems. T1 >could have failed, or an electrolytic capacitor. Check C3, C24, C25, C26, >C29, C30 and C31. These may be different on the Classic II. I haven't >really had to fix many Classic II's, mostly just the earlier macs (Mac >Plus especially...). Also, just check for obviously burnt parts, bulging >electrolytics and cracked solder joints. > >Ian Primus >ian_primus@yahoo.com > >On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 06:04 AM, Mark Firestone wrote: > >>While we are on the subject of Macs, I have a question. >> >>I used to work in the Mac Repair shop at ASU, fixing dead Macs. We used >>to get a lot of the old "all in one" (SE, SE/30, Classic, Classic II) >>Macs in with bad analog boards (they would make an evil buzzing noise one >>day, and then just refuse to work...) >> >>We would fix this by replacing the bad board, as you do, not repairing >>the board itself. >> >>My Classic II got left on over the weekend, and was found dead and >>buzzing. It needs a new board. I was wondering if anyone knew what >>component it was on the analog (or power/sweep) board that causes it to >>die, so could fire up my soldering iron and have a go... >> >>...much easier that enplaning to the aforementioned wife why I spent ?30 >>on a computer that was free if i would remove it... >> >>Take Care, >> >>mark >> >> >> >>[---------] >>"Homer, we don't have to have sex." >>"Yes we do, the cookie told me so." >>"Deserts aren't always right Homer." >>"But they're so delicious." >> >>Website: retrobbs.org >>BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 >>Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org >>[---------] [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 30 08:25:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: otrona parts? Message-ID: I can provide you with software (email me your mailing address off-list), but you should contact J.C. Wren to get the email of the fellow in Colorado who has been selling of Otrona parts on eBay. I believe he has manuals. Bob p.s., there is an Otrona 2001 on eBay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739274666&category=179 -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 10:43 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: otrona parts? I've been playing with the Otrana Attache that I found last week. Cute little machine. I think I might hold onto this one for a while but it's missing some parts. Does anyone have a parts machine or parts that they're willing to part with? I need the cross bar that runs between the handles, software disks and manual, hinges for the keyboard and I LIKE to find one of the 8086 processor cards for it. FWIW I took it apart and checked it this morning and I noticed something funny. The no serial number anywhere on the outside of it but inside EVERYTHING has the serial number on it. The INSIDE of the case, the monitor, both disk drives, the power supply, the sheet metal, etc are all numbered 4616 but there's no number anywhere on the outside. Joe From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 30 08:41:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: FW: New Web site is active (Poqet) Message-ID: Good news from Bryan Mason for those of us interested in the Poqet. The mailing list has not been reactivated yet, but Bryan says he's working on that. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Mason [mailto:bmason@bmason.com] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 5:39 PM To: poqetpc@kogs1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de Subject: New Web site is active Hi all, The new Poqet PC Web site is up and active. The URL is the same as the old site: . Be careful of the capitalization -- it's important. The DNS entries were changed two days ago, but there may be a chance that they haven't fully propagated through the 'Net. If you enter the URL above and still get the old site, try again in 12-24 hours. Eventually, you should be directed to the new site. -- Bryan From david_comley at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 08:50:00 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: General Automation SPC-16/4x & HP PTP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030630134557.50733.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com> > I managed to pick up a General Automation SPC-16/40 > and SPC-16/45. > Aparently, the /40 needs its power supply to be > repaired :(. Lucky you - I have been looking for an SPC-16 for some time now. And there's precious little information on the web. These were popular in Europe in the industrial arena. You may know all this already, but here's the little bit I remember from using these systems. IIRC they are 16-bit systems; the systems I used ran RTOS booted from 5- or 10-meg removable disk cartridges. At some point I believe Tripos was also available. We used these systems extensively at Ford Motor Company plants across Europe as the controllers for engine (dynamometer) testing, vehicle exhaust emission analysis and electrical checkout. In fact I first came to grips with assembly language programming on the SPC-16. Back in the '70's someone at Ford wrote a real-time executive for these systems called the Ford Executive and Control Program which was only used at run-time to support the test applications I was writing, so development was interesting: I'd boot from RTOS, edit and assemble my code; transfer to a bootable 8" disk containing FECP; then reboot from the diskette and attempt to test. Last time I used these systems was in the late '80s, and at that time General Automation was still in business. I don't think they're around now. Sorry that I don't have much more concrete information on the hardware to share with - looking back over what I wrote it's only personal experience stuff - but sometimes a little context is useful on these systems. I came across a reference to these machines in the Technical Library at work recently, comparing them performance-wise to other minis of the same era. If you're interested I'll copy the relevant pages and send them to you. Regards, Dave From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Jun 30 09:11:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? References: Message-ID: <3F0043DF.4012356@comcast.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Please accept my most humble apologies, Herr Franke. I must have > forgotten. Surely, I'm an ass. > > -- No additional comment necessary... :P -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jun 30 10:25:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 10:31:46 CEST References: <40829401fd.401fd40829@ono.com> Message-ID: <20030630165453.A312556@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.30 10:31 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > That said... dang, I *still* need (access to) a working 9-track 800bpi > unit... anyone? In Holland, or within a day's drive from there? I am exhibitor at the LinuxTag with a VAX 4000-400 and a Cipher F880 (800 bpi and 3200 bpi) 9 track tape demonstrating (Net)BSD. If you plan a visit at the LinuxTag (Karlsruhe, Germany) you may use this equipment... ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jun 30 11:36:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Great Flea Market Finds this wekend Message-ID: <011101c33f25$31018970$860cdd40@oemcomputer> While working the flea market this weekend a guy selling items near me came over at the close of business on Sunday and offered me all of this computers items for free. He told me to just pick out whatever I wanted !!! I ended up with 7 large boxes of goodies software (Windows ver 1.03 new never opened box), Apple IIe and related hardware for it, Tandy hardware, printers, and other items. I have not been able to sort it yet for a full list but will update everyone after I have a chance later this week. From another dealer out there I purchased some goodies for the Vic20: 8K Tam memory expansion cartridge by MSD inc., HesWare 5-cartridge module, Vic-1924 Omega Race cartridge, Vic-1212 Programmers Aid cartridge, HES C304 HesWriter cartridge, Vic-1929 Personal Finance, Vic-1920 Pin Ball cartridge. She sold all it to me for $1.75 :-) I picked some other game cartridges for other systems for 25 cent each also and several mousepads. Except for the heat it was a great weekend. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 30 12:38:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor Message-ID: Jason, You can have the 5250 card if you want. Send me your mailing address and I'll send the card off to you. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Jason McBrien [mailto:jbmcb@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:01 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor I'll take the 5250 to add to my collection if nobody else has a pressing need for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor > Free for postage: > 1 IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor ISA #82G7060 > 1 HP SCSI Adaptor ISA (for Scanjet?) #C1752-66500 > > I found these half-length ISA cards in the trash on the way to work today & have no need for them. Each is in a zip-lock bag and looks OK, but is untested. Postage would be about $2.00 each. > > Robert A. Feldman > robert_feldman@jdedwards.com From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Jun 30 13:22:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor References: Message-ID: Thanks! How much to cover shipping & handling? Is there any card you are looking for I could send you, I have all kinds of junk for PC's and Macs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: RE: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor > Jason, > > You can have the 5250 card if you want. Send me your mailing address and I'll send the card off to you. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason McBrien [mailto:jbmcb@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:01 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor > > > I'll take the 5250 to add to my collection if nobody else has a pressing > need for it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Feldman, Robert" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:55 AM > Subject: IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor > > > > Free for postage: > > 1 IBM 5250 Emulation Adaptor ISA #82G7060 > > 1 HP SCSI Adaptor ISA (for Scanjet?) #C1752-66500 > > > > I found these half-length ISA cards in the trash on the way to work today > & have no need for them. Each is in a zip-lock bag and looks OK, but is > untested. Postage would be about $2.00 each. > > > > Robert A. Feldman > > robert_feldman@jdedwards.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 30 16:24:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Junque Shops in LA area In-Reply-To: <7DE6045E-AAB0-11D7-8B38-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030630170838.0f5ffaba@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went to an interesting computer scrap place in Topeka Kansas with Gary Hildebrand. It might be worht a stop if you're in the area. Contact Gary for directions. Joe At 09:08 PM 6/29/03 -0700, you wrote: >Passing through LA on my way to MO, What's to see? From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Jun 30 16:48:00 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: I got a HP9000 - now what? Message-ID: I picked up this huge HP box with half the case(plastics anyway) missing... I picked it up because it had a DomainRing card and other Apollo-like ports. I finally figured out it's an HP9000, but I'm not sure which one yet. The board is labeled A1421-66538. It has a 25MHz 68040 CPU. The HP-IL keyboard port is a neat touch. Does this thing use a normal VGA monitor? Looks like this one has a tape drive(DC600 tapes like my Apollos?), and two hard drives - one is a freaking big 5.25" FH like my Apollos, the other is HP SureStorageDisk 1000S+ 3.5" drive. I see 4 ISA slots, one has a DomainRing card. Will the other Apollo cards work there too? Any pointers to good HP9000 info(I'm still recovering from hauling this huge box in to do much searching right now - this thing is bigger and heavier than the Apollos! LOL, I though nothing could get bigger...) I think my iMac is intimidated by this huge box towering over it on the desk now... -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jun 30 17:36:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Atari Transputer Workstation for sale In-Reply-To: <001301c33efe$23a7ca40$6401a8c0@zeus> Message-ID: <3F00D7E3.106.3B7C7B65@localhost> > I know a source for a complete ATW800 in the UK area if anyone is > interested. They are asking 250 UKP for it (Cambridge area). Let me > know, condition is untested. I wish I could go for it, but since I am > across the pond, it is just too costly :-( Well, if you can manage it to be here by next week I'll take it over (If I don'T decide to keep it :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jun 30 17:42:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: References: <3EFE1674.22031.30B8E170@localhost> Message-ID: <3F00D945.27525.3B81E487@localhost> > > Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a > > cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in > > ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12. > By the way, I found one of those recently. I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine .... :( -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From aeg at paradise.net.nz Mon Jun 30 17:44:01 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5285 Message-ID: <685D2650-AB4C-11D7-B317-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Hi All Another recent addition to my growing collection is, as the title suggests, an IBM 5285. It has a 12" display and dual 8" floppy drives. The separate keyboard is connected at the front of the machine by a large 25 pin connector. Originally passed to me as "working" the machine fired up to display what looked like a single ASCII code at the top centre of the screen and a column of blocks on the far right. The keyboard is laid out very much like a terminal keyboard and testing the keys the keyboard buffer quickly becomes full. This results in what looks like a series of memory addresses along the bottom of the screen. All the while the two 8" drives are merrily spinning away. I have one disk with the machine which when inserted in either drive fails to read or alter the state of the display. My initial thoughts were faulty connections. I took the covers off to reveal about a kilo of dust liberally spread around the inside. I cleaned each component carefully and replaced the boards. Now I don't get anything on the display and the drives still whirr around oblivious of disk or no disk... So... my questions are: 1. Has anyone come across this model before and is it a dumb terminal? 2. What checks would you suggest to solve the disk access problems? 3. Can anyone point me towards a repository of information about it? Thanks in advance Alan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 18:12:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Tandy DT2 (was Re: rare TRS-80 model 3 ??) In-Reply-To: <3F00D945.27525.3B81E487@localhost> Message-ID: <20030630230740.61205.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > > Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a > > > cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in > > > ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12. > > > By the way, I found one of those recently. > > I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine .... I remember. Out of curiosity, is it command-set compatible with anything? Have the ROMs been backed up anywhere so that someone might be able to experiment with a real M4? -ethan (When I was in High School, our "computer lab" consisted of either an HP or Wang programmable calculator, an M3 and an M4. I got a grade in "computer math" by writing a simple database program to help the teacher track the stats of the wrestling team, and to calculate grade point averages for grade cards. Someday, I wouldn't mind locating an M4, but it would be nice to be able to use it as a dumb terminal - probably get more power-on hours that way). From aek at spies.com Mon Jun 30 18:56:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: General Automation SPC-16/4x & HP PTP Message-ID: <200306302354.h5UNsYq5013533@spies.com> > Lucky you - I have been looking for an SPC-16 for some > time now. And there's precious little information on > the web. I've put a few GA16 document scans up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/generalAutomation From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 19:53:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input Message-ID: I have read a lot about the SWTPC TV Typewriter, and I am interested in how people modified a black and white TV for a video monitor. I have an old black and white set that I thought would be fun to modify for use as a video monitor. Now, granted, I don't really need another composite monitor, I have plenty of old Apple monitors that will do the same thing, I just thought it would be fun, since it would be a challenge to find where to input the signal and how to do it. I found the PDF of part of the SWTPC TV Typewriter manual on a web site, and it explains the process, although not in great detail, and references a circuit diagram of what needed to be added, but the diagram is nowhere to be found. Does anyone have any instructions or hints that they may be able to give me? Has anyone done this before? Any advice would be appreciated. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Jun 30 20:22:01 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would think the easiest and cheapest way is to use a plain old RF modulator box that will put composite video on to channel 3 or 4. I've taken apart one or two and they seem to have little more than a few coils and small parts, a far cry from the rack mounted cable TV modulators I just picked up(ooohh... so many trimmer caps and coils...). I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm slowly learning as my interest in fast scan ATV increases... The converter box I have goes with my TI-99, I probably have one in the box with my C-64, too. I think you can still get them at Radio Shack. Otherwise, all you need to do is dump the composite signal into an AM modulator and then through a transmitter that the TV can pick up. I would guess these small boxes having only coils just use a tuned circuit for channel 3 and the voltage from the composite signal to provide the signal. But then I'm just guessing, I've never poked and prodded those little boxes very much, I think I'll go do that now(when I find it, anyhow...). >I have read a lot about the SWTPC TV Typewriter, and I am interested >in how people modified a black and white TV for a video monitor. I >have an old black and white set that I thought would be fun to >modify for use as a video monitor. Now, granted, I don't really need >another composite monitor, I have plenty of old Apple monitors that >will do the same thing, I just thought it would be fun, since it >would be a challenge to find where to input the signal and how to do >it. I found the PDF of part of the SWTPC TV Typewriter manual on a >web site, and it explains the process, although not in great detail, >and references a circuit diagram of what needed to be added, but the >diagram is nowhere to be found. Does anyone have any instructions or >hints that they may be able to give me? Has anyone done this before? >Any advice would be appreciated. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From gtoal at gtoal.com Mon Jun 30 20:39:00 2003 From: gtoal at gtoal.com (Graham Toal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Acorn (Was Re: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes) Message-ID: <200307010142.h611grCc003968@gtoal.com> > I have a couple of Acorn Systems (one 6502, the other 6809-based). I am > always looking for any of the more unusual I/O cards for them.... OK, refresh my memory here... what Acorn 6809 system would that be? I was only aware of two - one by Brian Jones which was a large hand- made breadboarded circuit he did as an experiment, and which ran FLEX, and one that I made which was a BBC second processor - *both* of which I have here at home. I don't remember Acorn making any production 6809 systems??? I have the original circuit diagram on tracing paper that Brian drew. My own was so simple (5 packages as I recall) that I didn't bother drawing a diagram :-) [I just worked from an ascii wiring list] I did two versions - the first was CPU TUBE ls139? (some single ttl chip for address decoding the tube) 2*32K 'greenwich instruments' battery-backed static rams I pre-loaded the static ram on a beeb with the boot code, so didn't need an eprom at all! the second was CPU TUBE Eprom 64K dynamic ram SIL (first SIL I ever saw!) Custom dynamic memory controller IC I was working on VLSI design tools at the time, and I designed the memory controller chip as my test piece. It was a PLA and a counter for ram refresh, not much else. [I found a 'work in progress' kernel source for my 6809 2nd proc earlier this year - written in Skimp, which was a compiler I had written myself as a University project; the compiler itself was written in the Edinburgh language Imp77 - Acorn actually had commissioned Imp77 compilers for both the 32016 and the ARM - and we recently found the full sources of the 3L ARM Imp (and Pascal) compilers at Edinburgh as part of our Edinburgh Computer History Project research!] It would have been a tremendously cheap second processor to build but Roger was quite set against the 6809 on the sole argument of clock speed. My argument was that it was a nicer processor and would have more high-level software than the 6502. Probably was true at the time although the 6502 did eventually get a whole slew of high level languages that I never would have thought possible. (I shared a house with the guy who worked on the Pascal compiler who I would occasionally give gratuitous advice to, and I also learned C while doing SQA of the C compiler) (quickly checks the web...) Well! http://www.stairwaytohell.com/atom/adverts/FLYER_Acorn_6809.png Never seen it in my life. It must have come and gone before I joined Acorn (I forget the year but it was post Beeb but pre-Electron) Other obscure Acorn kit that I have: the "Prophet" - a version of the Atom targetted at businesses. Never seen a single mention of it on the net. I have the Z80 second processor, various ARMs, I think a 286, a few 32016's - and a working ACW although it was having Beeb-side problems last time I tried it. Some day I'll photograph my acorn goodies and let you know what's available. Any cards I can put in a padded envelope and mail to anyone are fair game; the larger systems like the System 4 filestore and the ACW I'll be hanging on to. The atoms and electrons I could be persuaded to part with though they're easy to find anyway and I doubt you'd want mine. If anyone in the US has an Amercian Beeb (110V and NTSC) I'll be all over them to trade :-) - it would be a real boon for recovering the data from my boxes of 5.25" disks... Another project I did at Acorn was design a system for backing up hard discs to video tape. It used the teletext video chips (SA5050? - one of those SA chips anyway) to generate/decode a video signal. The actual board design was done by a new engineer who had been hired (Martin Gilbert) and was being broken in gently before being given any serious work. Hugo (file-system author) did the software. I believe the prototype actually worked but like most of my stuff at acorn it never made it to market :-/ Despite not contributing greatly to the financial success of Acorn, I have to say however that good times were had by all... it was definitely the best place I ever worked. G PS My main 'beeb' project before I transferred to VLSI CAD was the Teletext adapter. I found the source code recently if anyone wants it. I can't see Acorn giving me a hard time over releasing it after all these years... From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 30 20:41:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <3F00D945.27525.3B81E487@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a > > > cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in > > > ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12. > > > By the way, I found one of those recently. > > I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine .... > > :( I had to walk all the way across the warehouse of the ACCRC to find it sitting on a pallet. :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 20:48:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7B1878EC-AB65-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Those little RF boxes don't really convert from composite to RF, they just provide a switch and a connection to a TV antenna input. The output signal from the computer is already RF. Actually, what I generally do with machines that have RF out only (i.e. Atari 2600) is to just go to Radio Shack and get an RCA to F type screw connector adapter. It's much smaller, and gives much better picture than those little metal boxes do. It just doesn't provide a switch. What I want to do is to actually input a true composite video signal into the TV. Of course, this can be done by using a broken VCR with A/V inputs and a TV output, but I want to modify the set as a learning experience, as well as to create something useful for old computers. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 09:17 PM, John Rollins wrote: > I would think the easiest and cheapest way is to use a plain old RF > modulator box that will put composite video on to channel 3 or 4. I've > taken apart one or two and they seem to have little more than a few > coils and small parts, a far cry from the rack mounted cable TV > modulators I just picked up(ooohh... so many trimmer caps and > coils...). I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm slowly learning > as my interest in fast scan ATV increases... The converter box I have > goes with my TI-99, I probably have one in the box with my C-64, too. > I think you can still get them at Radio Shack. Otherwise, all you need > to do is dump the composite signal into an AM modulator and then > through a transmitter that the TV can pick up. I would guess these > small boxes having only coils just use a tuned circuit for channel 3 > and the voltage from the composite signal to provide the signal. But > then I'm just guessing, I've never poked and prodded those little > boxes very much, I think I'll go do that now(when I find it, > anyhow...). > > >> I have read a lot about the SWTPC TV Typewriter, and I am interested >> in how people modified a black and white TV for a video monitor. I >> have an old black and white set that I thought would be fun to modify >> for use as a video monitor. Now, granted, I don't really need another >> composite monitor, I have plenty of old Apple monitors that will do >> the same thing, I just thought it would be fun, since it would be a >> challenge to find where to input the signal and how to do it. I found >> the PDF of part of the SWTPC TV Typewriter manual on a web site, and >> it explains the process, although not in great detail, and references >> a circuit diagram of what needed to be added, but the diagram is >> nowhere to be found. Does anyone have any instructions or hints that >> they may be able to give me? Has anyone done this before? Any advice >> would be appreciated. > > -- > > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 30 21:03:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: setup for Televideo 970 Terminal? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030630220020.47ff3df2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Can anyone tell me how to change the settings in a Televideo 970 Terminal? I got into the settings page but I can't figure out how to change the settings. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 30 21:17:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <3F00D945.27525.3B81E487@localhost> References: <3EFE1674.22031.30B8E170@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030630220501.0f577fee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:43 AM 7/1/03 +0200, you wrote: >> > Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a >> > cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in >> > ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12. > >> By the way, I found one of those recently. > >I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine .... I passed up six or seven of them when I got my Tandy 6000. They had been using them as terminals for it. Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jun 30 21:21:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: <7B1878EC-AB65-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <7B1878EC-AB65-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: First - the TV itself is needed. When a unit is to hand, look up the Sams Photofact for it - this will be the comprehensive data and documentation package - numerous schematics, pictorials with all the components marked, etc. I think they're, what - $15? Dunno, but it's money well spent. Then - most BW TVs from the 60s and early 70s (if tube) were series-string type - they had no power transformer, rather the incoming mains current was tied to a resistor string to power the tube filaments and to diodes for the various DC voltages - this meant that one 'side' of the mains always was connected to the metalwork of the set - thus posing a signifigant hazard to persons **and to any other gear hooked up to the set that didn't share the same ground polarity!!** It is A Very Good Thing if you can score a simple mains<->mains isolation transformer, just 110V in and 110V out, 1:1 windings. Be sure its a two winding device *NOT* an 'autotransformer', which is typical of most 'travel convertors' one buys for Journeying to dark and wild corners of the world (Munich for instance). If you can't find a 100Watt (or so) 1:1 unit, you can make one by getting two identical power transformers and and attaching thier secondaries to each other, thus a 1:5:5:1 for example. Just be sure that the transformers will carry the load of the BW set (total watts). Now, using the Photfact schematics and data from the Web, here, and other sources - locate the video and sync-separator circuits. Determine the polarities of the signals involved, and what relative levels the circuits want. Buld up an interface circuit to accept TTL level (or standard NTSC composite analog data) and feed it at the right levels and polarity to the video input stage of the BW TV. Power up both units and test. After the Fire Captain tells you it's all right to go back inside, salvage what you can from the sodden charcoal mess and try to find a new hobby that carries less intrinsic risk. ;} No but, seriously - after you have the BW TV set data, it is not a particularly onerous task to suss out the points in the circuit where one could ostensibly inject an external video sig. I might also suggest that you look into opto-isolating the video feed from your computer, just to be safe. Letting the Magic Smoke out of one's vintage computers is not exactly the best way for further knowledge and gain experience, though Mr. Wilde might have disagreed with me. But hey - he's dead. Cheers John From dancohoe at oxford.net Mon Jun 30 21:40:00 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: [oclug] computer gear garage sale In-Reply-To: <200306291045.23982.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <002c01c33f79$3bc69a90$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Hi Mike, Too Bad !!! I was actually in Ottawa for a while this weekend. I almost called you, but the weekend was supposed to be involve sightseeing museums etc. with my wife so I tried to stick to the agenda. Did you get the KIM-1? If its still available, it would be interesting. Also the Osborne if it includes the software and manuals. I'm still getting things put away in the new building but will likely come across the Xerox software you were looking for soon. regards, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 10:45 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Fwd: [oclug] computer gear garage sale > > > Someone local is cleaning out their garage. He's > selling off a rather large collection of computer software and > hardware. > > The sale started Saturday 28th, and is continuing through to late > Tuesday for the long weekend. Contact and location details are > available at each of the following URLs: > > http://www.bjgiles.ca/software_list.htm > http://www.bjgiles.ca/hardware_list.htm > > I can act as a go between if needed. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 30 21:42:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: more intel MDS-800s :-) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030630223739.0f876112@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Things are really starting to fall into place around here. I got my 3rd and 4th MDS-800s running today :-) I posted a couple of pictures, there's no text or links yet but here's the directories. (Yes those things under the counters are HP 1000s. I have three working ones so far but only two good power supplies. So far I have FIVE bad power supplies for them. I'm going to have to sit down and learn how to fix thm soon.) Here's a link to pictures and description of my first one. Got my 3rd Series II machine, a MDS-230, working last week. Tomorrow I start on MDS-800 numbers 5 and 6. Number 3 and 4 MDS-800s had 8088 and 8086 emulators, the first two had 8080 emulators. I got 8x48/8x49 and 8x51 emulators with the last two MDS-230s and had an 8085 emulator with my MDS-235. Does anyone have any of the other emulators such as the one for the 3000 series bit slice processors or the (non-intel) Z-80 emulator? I'm also looking for a personality card for the 1702 EPROMs for the UPP 103 EPROM programmer. Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 21:48:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: <7B1878EC-AB65-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030701024428.72785.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ian Primus wrote: > Those little RF boxes don't really convert from composite to RF, they > just provide a switch and a connection to a TV antenna input. The > output signal from the computer is already RF. For the little ones with just a switch and a coil, that's all true. In the case of a VIC-20, there _is_ an external composite adapter that hangs off the DIN-5 for power, composite video and sound. I _think_ the one for the TI-99/4a was also a true external RF modulator. -ethan From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jun 30 21:51:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input References: Message-ID: <03f201c33f7b$0280ab20$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rollins" To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input > I would think the easiest and cheapest way is to use a plain old RF > modulator box that will put composite video on to channel 3 or 4. > I've taken apart one or two and they seem to have little more than a > few coils and small parts, a far cry from the rack mounted cable TV > modulators I just picked up(ooohh... so many trimmer caps and > coils...). I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm slowly learning > as my interest in fast scan ATV increases... The converter box I have > goes with my TI-99, I probably have one in the box with my C-64, too. > I think you can still get them at Radio Shack. Otherwise, all you > need to do is dump the composite signal into an AM modulator and then > through a transmitter that the TV can pick up. I would guess these > small boxes having only coils just use a tuned circuit for channel 3 > and the voltage from the composite signal to provide the signal. But > then I'm just guessing, I've never poked and prodded those little > boxes very much, I think I'll go do that now(when I find it, > anyhow...). > > -- > > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ > The SWTPC TV-Typewriter outputs baseband video, which is also a RF (radio frequency) signal. What it is NOT is modulated. That is why it is called baseband. Baseband is also sometimes called DIRECT video. The Commodore 64 puts out a RF signal on TV channel 3 or 4 (switchable), which is usually connected to a TV set using a RF SWITCH (required by the FCC in the US). That switch is NOT a RF modulator, it is an isolation device, to prevent your connection of your computer to an outside antenna and the broadcasting your computer signal to your neighborhood; that broadcast would be considered as unwanted interference by the FCC, thus the isolation switch. Please not that in the rest of this post that I am NOT talking about a RF "switch" as described above, but about an actual RF modulator vs. baseband video. In my opinion, based on personal experience, it is cheaper, easier (if you know what to do), and certainly provides a better picture if you use the direct video approach when connecting a baseband device like the TV-Typewriter to a TV set. When you use a RF modulator you cause the signal to be modulated and then demodulated (by the TV); every time this is done, some of the information is lost in the process. When you use the direct video, little of the signal is lost or attenuated and the full bandwidth of the TV's electronics are available. The lossy signal from a (cheap) RF modulator causes the picture to be fuzzy or wavy and may not even be stable. I used to have one of these TV-Typewriters and even modified it for 24x80 display by doubling the ram and making mods to the timing of the board. There was an article published in one of the electronics / computer magazines that showed how to do this, and it worked exactly as shown. I used my TV Typewriter with a small black & white TV modified to have an RCA jack for baseband RF input. It worked well for many years. My computer at that time was a KIM-1, expanded with S-100 peripherals and memory, using a KIMSAI motherboard / S-100 interface. How one connects baseband to a TV depends on the TV itself; many small sets have a "hot" chassis, that is to say that the chassis is connected to one side of the 110 VAC mains, and insulated from the user by the plastic case. This kind of TV can get you KILLED if you mess with it opened up or can possibly blow your computer up if you connect to it improperly. This procedure is therefore NOT recommended to the non-technically skilled. The actual circuit can be as simple as a capacitor and a few resistors (for DC restoration). What is done is to disconnect the TV's tuner and inject the signal where the tuner did. Many people used a toggle switch so that the TV or Video function could be selected as needed. For what it is worth, TV doesn't use AM (Amplitude Modulation), it uses a modulation technique called Vestigial Sideband, from before the days when Single Sideband modulation was understood. Also, RF modulators are ACTIVE devices requiring a power supply and ground to operate; they do not derive their power from the signal; at least none that I've ever seen do. With today's ultra-low powered devices, it may be possible, but I doubt that anyone has gone to the trouble to design an ultra-low power RF modulator considering that many TV's already have composite (baseband having chrominance & luminance combined) video inputs. Some specialty monitors, like those sold for use with the Commodore 64, accepted separate chrominance (color) and luminance (brightness) inputs in an attempt to give a better picture. The Commodore 64 has a special jack on its back to connect to these monitors and uses a special cable to make that connection. Stuart Johnson former electronics technician and present computer nut From tarsi at binhost.com Mon Jun 30 21:57:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5285 In-Reply-To: <685D2650-AB4C-11D7-B317-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> References: <685D2650-AB4C-11D7-B317-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <200306302153.21958@210> > 1. Has anyone come across this model before and is it a dumb terminal? > 2. What checks would you suggest to solve the disk access problems? > 3. Can anyone point me towards a repository of information about it? Wow, this sounds almost exactly like my IBM 5324. Let me see: The tower case is about 3' tall and beige, the 8" floppies are in the front top with a power switch. The back is closed with a turn-key type thing that allows the cover to swing open on hinges. The monitor attaches to the computer through a round three-prong plug. And mine behaves similar to yours. It starts up and displays incrementing numbers across the top, about three rows, then jumps to a hex dump on the bottom, about 2 or 3 lines, and stops. The little information I've found out about it has been provided by Wayne Smith (wmsmith at earthlink dot net), and he writes: "I have full documentation on the 5324, although I've never seen one other than the monitor (I had one which I used to replace the blown monitor I had in a 5322). It is a reconfigured IBM Datamaster, aka System 23 or IBM 5322. You don't see them that often. It boots to Basic. ... Processor is an 8085. Comes with anywhere from 32K to 128K RAM. I just moved to a new place a few days ago so it will be a while before I can lay my hands on anything." I haven't heard whether Wayne had found his documentation or not. In the meantime, I've opened up the box and peeked around. It has a mem card and a disk controller card for the 8" drives, that's about it. Big power supply on the bottom. Let me know if you find anything and I'll do the same, it's likely these are things of the same type, different flavour. Tarsi From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 30 22:16:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: <7B1878EC-AB65-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <7B1878EC-AB65-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030630200633.G29672@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > Those little RF boxes don't really convert from composite to RF, they The Sup'R'Mod II DOES convert from composite to RF (Channel 34). Most of the other RF modulator boxes are channel 3, or 4, or switchable between 3 and 4. But some people don't know the difference between an RF modulator box and a switch box. But modifying a TV for composite input is a good project. Maybe start with Don Lancaster's book(s) on the subject. ... and be careful! You will be working near high voltages; and some are hot chassis -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > just provide a switch and a connection to a TV antenna input. The > output signal from the computer is already RF. Actually, what I > generally do with machines that have RF out only (i.e. Atari 2600) is > to just go to Radio Shack and get an RCA to F type screw connector > adapter. It's much smaller, and gives much better picture than those > little metal boxes do. It just doesn't provide a switch. What I want to > do is to actually input a true composite video signal into the TV. Of > course, this can be done by using a broken VCR with A/V inputs and a TV > output, but I want to modify the set as a learning experience, as well > as to create something useful for old computers. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 09:17 PM, John Rollins wrote: > > > I would think the easiest and cheapest way is to use a plain old RF > > modulator box that will put composite video on to channel 3 or 4. I've > > taken apart one or two and they seem to have little more than a few > > coils and small parts, a far cry from the rack mounted cable TV > > modulators I just picked up(ooohh... so many trimmer caps and > > coils...). I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm slowly learning > > as my interest in fast scan ATV increases... The converter box I have > > goes with my TI-99, I probably have one in the box with my C-64, too. > > I think you can still get them at Radio Shack. Otherwise, all you need > > to do is dump the composite signal into an AM modulator and then > > through a transmitter that the TV can pick up. I would guess these > > small boxes having only coils just use a tuned circuit for channel 3 > > and the voltage from the composite signal to provide the signal. But > > then I'm just guessing, I've never poked and prodded those little > > boxes very much, I think I'll go do that now(when I find it, > > anyhow...). > > > > > >> I have read a lot about the SWTPC TV Typewriter, and I am interested > >> in how people modified a black and white TV for a video monitor. I From aeg at paradise.net.nz Mon Jun 30 22:51:00 2003 From: aeg at paradise.net.nz (Alan Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5285 In-Reply-To: <200306302153.21958@210> Message-ID: <6074BC34-AB77-11D7-B317-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> On Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003, at 14:53 Pacific/Auckland, Tarsi wrote: >> 1. Has anyone come across this model before and is it a dumb terminal? >> 2. What checks would you suggest to solve the disk access problems? >> 3. Can anyone point me towards a repository of information about it? > > Wow, this sounds almost exactly like my IBM 5324. Let me see: > > The tower case is about 3' tall and beige, the 8" floppies are in the > front > top with a power switch. The back is closed with a turn-key type > thing that > allows the cover to swing open on hinges. The monitor attaches to the > computer through a round three-prong plug. Not quite... this seem to have been designed as a desktop box with the monitor built in on the left and the two 8" drives mounted vertically to the right (the power switch is on the front as is the keyboard connector). Dimensions 24" Wide, 15" Tall and 20" Deep. The separate keyboard is also on the large size, a tapered shape 2" thick at the front and 4" thick at the back (about 19" wide). The whole thing takes two people to pick it up... I recon about 50kg total weight. > > And mine behaves similar to yours. It starts up and displays > incrementing > numbers across the top, about three rows, then jumps to a hex dump on > the > bottom, about 2 or 3 lines, and stops. > Exactly what mine is doing. or rather was doing. It seems to have given up all together at the moment... > I haven't heard whether Wayne had found his documentation or not. In > the > meantime, I've opened up the box and peeked around. It has a mem card > and a > disk controller card for the 8" drives, that's about it. Big power > supply on > the bottom. > Huge power supply! There is a manufacturers sticker on the power supply stating made in October 1980 and a weight of 35lbs (just the power supply). Having taken the thing apart there seems to be an Intel 8045 chip on one of the smaller boards. There are two full width boards and four smaller boards. There appears to be plenty of room for expansion with four "slots" (I use slot in the loosest sense) running across the main board. > Let me know if you find anything and I'll do the same, it's likely > these are > things of the same type, different flavour. > So far all my searches on the web have lead to nothing, but as soon as I find out anything I'll let you know. Alan From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jun 30 23:48:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030702043945.21937.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Ian Primus writes: > I have read a lot about the SWTPC TV Typewriter, and I am interested in > how people modified a black and white TV for a video monitor. I have an > old black and white set that I thought would be fun to modify for use as a > video monitor. Now, granted, I don't really need another composite > monitor, I have plenty of old Apple monitors that will do the same thing, > I just thought it would be fun, since it would be a challenge to find > where to input the signal and how to do it. I found the PDF of part of the > SWTPC TV Typewriter manual on a web site, and it explains the process, > although not in great detail, and references a circuit diagram of what > needed to be added, but the diagram is nowhere to be found. Does anyone > have any instructions or hints that they may be able to give me? Has > anyone done this before? Any advice would be appreciated. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com First you have to deterimine that the set isn't hot chassis, and has a transformer operated power supply. Then get a Sams's Photofact, so you can find where the video detector diode is. Somewhere in there is a point where you can inject baseband video. Not knowing the schematic, your guess is as good as mine. If you know basic electronics, you can look for a point where the scope video is the right polarity, and about 1v p-p and inject it there. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO